British Columbia Hansard — Tuesday, May 16, 2006 (38th Parliament, 2nd Session) (H0516pm-04) (H0516pm 04)

H0516pm-04

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Second Session, 38th Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY (HANSARD) Tuesday, May 16, 2006 Afternoon Sitting Volume 12, Number 4 THE HONOURABLE BILL BARISOFF, SPEAKER ISSN 0709-1281

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Iona V. Campagnolo, CM, OBC SECOND SESSION, 38TH PARLIAMENT SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Bill Barisoff EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................Hon. Gordon Campbell Minister of State for Intergovernmental Relations .......................................................................................................... Hon.

John van Dongen Deputy Premier and Minister of Education and Minister Responsible for Early Learning and Literacy...................... Hon. Shirley Bond Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation .......................................................................................................Hon. Tom Christensen Minister of Advanced Education and Minister Responsible for Research and Technology ........................................... Hon.

Murray Coell Minister of Agriculture and Lands.......................................................................................................................................................Hon. Pat Bell Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Multiculturalism............................................................................... Hon. Wally Oppal, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ..........................................................................................................................Hon.

Stan Hagen Minister of State for Childcare ........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Linda Reid Minister of Community Services and Minister Responsible for Seniors’ and Women’s Issues........................................... Hon. Ida Chong Minister of Economic Development and Minister Responsible for the Asia-Pacific Initiative and the Olympics.................Hon.

Colin Hansen Minister of Employment and Income Assistance ...........................................................................................................Hon. Claude Richmond Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources .......................................................................................................Hon. Richard Neufeld Minister of State for Mining............................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Bill Bennett Minister of Environment and Minister Responsible for Water Stewardship and Sustainable Communities ...............Hon. Barry Penner Minister of Finance.......................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Carole Taylor Minister of Forests and Range and Minister Responsible for Housing ............................................................................. Hon.

Rich Coleman Minister of Health ......................................................................................................................................................................Hon. George Abbott Minister of Labour and Citizens’ Services .......................................................................................................................... Hon. Michael de Jong Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General................................................................................................................................Hon.

John Les Minister of Small Business and Revenue and Minister Responsible for Regulatory Reform............................................ Hon. Rick Thorpe Minister of Tourism, Sport and the Arts .........................................................................................................................................Hon. Olga Ilich Minister of Transportation...........................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Kevin Falcon LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Official Opposition .........................................................................................................................................................Carole James Deputy Speaker ....................................................................................................................................................................................Sindi Hawkins Assistant Deputy Speaker.....................................................................................................................................................................Sue Hammell Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole.................................................................................................................................................

Harry Bloy Clerk of the Legislative Assembly .........................................................................................................................E. George MacMinn, OBC, QC Clerk Assistant.........................................................................................................................................................................................Robert Vaive Clerk Assistant and Law Clerk .......................................................................................................................................................Ian D.

Izard, QC Clerk Assistant and Clerk of Committees ....................................................................................................................................... Craig H. James Clerk Assistant and Committee Clerk ..........................................................................................................................................Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sergeant-at-Arms............................................................................................................................................................................. A.A.

Humphreys Director, Hansard Services ...................................................................................................................................................................Jo-Anne Kern Legislative Librarian ..................................................................................................................................................................................Jane Taylor Legislative Comptroller...............................................................................................................................................................................Dan Arbic

Party Standings: Liberal 46; New Democratic 33 ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Abbott, Hon. George (L) .................................................................... Shuswap Austin, Robin (NDP)............................................................................. Skeena Bains, Harry (NDP).................................................................. Surrey-Newton Barisoff, Hon. Bill (L)..........................................Penticton–Okanagan Valley Bell, Hon. Pat (L) .............................................................Prince George North Bennett, Hon.

Bill (L) ............................................................... East Kootenay Black, Iain (L) ............................................................ Port Moody–Westwood Bloy, Harry (L)................................................................................Burquitlam Bond, Hon. Shirley (L).....................................Prince George–Mount Robson Brar, Jagrup (NDP).....................................................Surrey–Panorama Ridge Campbell, Hon.

Gordon (L) .........................................Vancouver–Point Grey Cantelon, Ron (L)..............................................................Nanaimo-Parksville Chong, Hon. Ida (L) .................................................... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ...........................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Christensen, Hon. Tom (L) ................................................. Okanagan-Vernon Chudnovsky, Dave (NDP)........................................... Vancouver-Kensington Coell, Hon.

Murray (L) .....................................Saanich North and the Islands Coleman, Hon. Rich (L)...........................................Fort Langley–Aldergrove Conroy, Katrine (NDP) .......................................... West Kootenay–Boundary Coons, Gary (NDP) ....................................................................... North Coast Cubberley, David (NDP)............................................................Saanich South de Jong, Hon.

Michael (L) ...................................Abbotsford–Mount Lehman Dix, Adrian (NDP) .........................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Evans, Corky (NDP).................................................................Nelson-Creston Falcon, Hon. Kevin (L) .......................................................

Surrey-Cloverdale Farnworth, Mike (NDP) ...............................Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Fleming, Rob (NDP) ..............................................................Victoria-Hillside Fraser, Scott (NDP) ..............................................................Alberni-Qualicum Gentner, Guy (NDP).......................................................................Delta North Hagen, Hon. Stan (L) ................................................................ Comox Valley Hammell, Sue (NDP) ................................................... Surrey–Green Timbers Hansen, Hon.

Colin (L) ..................................................Vancouver-Quilchena Hawes, Randy (L).......................................................... Maple Ridge–Mission Hawkins, Sindi (L) ............................................................... Kelowna-Mission Hayer, Dave S. (L) ................................................................

Surrey-Tynehead Hogg, Gordon (L)..............................................................Surrey–White Rock Horgan, John (NDP)......................................................Malahat–Juan de Fuca Horning, Al (L)........................................................... Kelowna–Lake Country Ilich, Hon. Olga (L)...............................................................Richmond Centre James, Carole (NDP).......................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Jarvis, Daniel (L)..................................................

North Vancouver–Seymour Karagianis, Maurine (NDP) ........................................... Esquimalt-Metchosin Krog, Leonard (NDP)......................................................................... Nanaimo Krueger, Kevin (L)..............................................Kamloops–North Thompson Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP)........................... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Lali, Harry (NDP)........................................................................

Yale-Lillooet Lee, Richard T. (L)....................................................................Burnaby North Lekstrom, Blair (L).............................................................. Peace River South Les, Hon. John (L)............................................................... Chilliwack-Sumas Macdonald, Norm (NDP).................................... Columbia River–Revelstoke MacKay, Dennis (L)....................................................

Bulkley Valley–Stikine Mayencourt, Lorne (L).......................................................Vancouver-Burrard McIntyre, Joan (L).................................................West Vancouver–Garibaldi Neufeld, Hon. Richard (L) .................................................. Peace River North Nuraney, John (L).............................................................Burnaby-Willingdon Oppal, Hon. Wally, QC (L).......................................... Vancouver-Fraserview Penner, Hon. Barry (L)...........................................................

Chilliwack-Kent Polak, Mary (L) ....................................................................................Langley Puchmayr, Chuck (NDP)...................................................... New Westminster Ralston, Bruce (NDP) ............................................................. Surrey-Whalley Reid, Hon. Linda (L) ................................................................ Richmond East Richmond, Hon. Claude (L).............................................................

Kamloops Robertson, Gregor (NDP) ................................................Vancouver-Fairview Roddick, Valerie (L).......................................................................Delta South Routley, Doug (NDP)..................................................... Cowichan-Ladysmith Rustad, John (L) ........................................................

Prince George–Omineca Sather, Michael (NDP).........................................Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ...................................Powell River–Sunshine Coast Simpson, Bob (NDP)..................................................................Cariboo North Simpson, Shane (NDP) ....................................................Vancouver-Hastings Sultan, Ralph (L) ....................................................West Vancouver–Capilano Taylor, Hon.

Carole (L).....................................................Vancouver-Langara Thorne, Diane (NDP) .................................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Thorpe, Hon. Rick (L).......................................................Okanagan-Westside Trevena, Claire (NDP) ..................................................................North Island van Dongen, Hon. John (L)............................................ Abbotsford-Clayburn Whittred, Katherine (L)........................................

North Vancouver–Lonsdale Wyse, Charlie (NDP) .................................................................Cariboo South Yap, John (L)...................................................................Richmond-Steveston LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Clayburn....................................................Hon. John van Dongen Abbotsford–Mount Lehman .......................................... Hon. Michael de Jong Alberni-Qualicum..........................................................................

Scott Fraser Bulkley Valley–Stikine ...........................................................Dennis MacKay Burnaby North ...........................................................................Richard T. Lee Burnaby-Edmonds........................................................................Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Willingdon................................................................... John Nuraney Burquitlam.......................................................................................Harry Bloy Cariboo North..............................................................................

Bob Simpson Cariboo South..............................................................................Charlie Wyse Chilliwack-Kent ..................................................................Hon. Barry Penner Chilliwack-Sumas...................................................................... Hon. John Les Columbia River–Revelstoke................................................. Norm Macdonald Comox Valley........................................................................ Hon.

Stan Hagen Coquitlam-Maillardville..............................................................Diane Thorne Cowichan-Ladysmith ................................................................. Doug Routley Delta North ...................................................................................Guy Gentner Delta South ............................................................................. Valerie Roddick East Kootenay....................................................................... Hon.

Bill Bennett Esquimalt-Metchosin.........................................................Maurine Karagianis Fort Langley–Aldergrove ..................................................Hon. Rich Coleman Kamloops.....................................................................Hon. Claude Richmond Kamloops–North Thompson .....................................................Kevin Krueger Kelowna–Lake Country.................................................................. Al Horning Kelowna-Mission ......................................................................

Sindi Hawkins Langley ...........................................................................................Mary Polak Malahat–Juan de Fuca .................................................................. John Horgan Maple Ridge–Mission ................................................................ Randy Hawes Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows ..................................................... Michael Sather Nanaimo......................................................................................

Leonard Krog Nanaimo-Parksville .....................................................................Ron Cantelon Nelson-Creston .............................................................................Corky Evans New Westminster .................................................................. Chuck Puchmayr North Coast....................................................................................

Gary Coons North Island ...............................................................................Claire Trevena North Vancouver–Lonsdale................................................Katherine Whittred North Vancouver–Seymour..........................................................Daniel Jarvis Oak Bay–Gordon Head ........................................................... Hon. Ida Chong Okanagan-Vernon......................................................... Hon. Tom Christensen Okanagan-Westside..............................................................Hon.

Rick Thorpe Peace River North.......................................................... Hon. Richard Neufeld Peace River South..................................................................... Blair Lekstrom Penticton–Okanagan Valley .................................................Hon. Bill Barisoff Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain ............................................Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Westwood.................................................................... Iain Black Powell River–Sunshine Coast ...............................................

Nicholas Simons Prince George North.................................................................... Hon. Pat Bell Prince George–Mount Robson ............................................Hon. Shirley Bond Prince George–Omineca................................................................ John Rustad Richmond Centre......................................................................Hon. Olga Ilich Richmond East........................................................................Hon.

Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston...........................................................................John Yap Saanich North and the Islands ............................................ Hon. Murray Coell Saanich South ........................................................................ David Cubberley Shuswap............................................................................Hon. George Abbott Skeena.......................................................................................... Robin Austin Surrey-Cloverdale............................................................... Hon.

Kevin Falcon Surrey–Green Timbers ................................................................Sue Hammell Surrey-Newton............................................................................... Harry Bains Surrey–Panorama Ridge.................................................................Jagrup Brar Surrey-Tynehead ....................................................................... Dave S.

Hayer Surrey-Whalley...........................................................................Bruce Ralston Surrey–White Rock .....................................................................Gordon Hogg Vancouver-Burrard..............................................................Lorne Mayencourt Vancouver-Fairview.............................................................Gregor Robertson Vancouver-Fraserview .................................................Hon.

Wally Oppal, QC Vancouver-Hastings .................................................................Shane Simpson Vancouver-Kensington.......................................................David Chudnovsky Vancouver-Kingsway ......................................................................Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara ........................................................... Hon. Carole Taylor Vancouver–Mount Pleasant........................................ Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Vancouver–Point Grey ................................................Hon.

Gordon Campbell Vancouver-Quilchena.........................................................Hon. Colin Hansen Victoria–Beacon Hill...................................................................

Carole James Victoria-Hillside ...........................................................................Rob Fleming West Kootenay–Boundary........................................................Katrine Conroy West Vancouver–Capilano...........................................................Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Garibaldi ........................................................Joan McIntyre Yale-Lillooet..................................................................................... Harry Lali

CONTENTS Tuesday, May 16, 2006 Afternoon Sitting Routine Proceedings Page Introductions by Members ....................................................................................................... .............................................. 4903 Introduction and First Reading of Bills........................................................................................ ......................................... 4903 Utilities Commission Amendment Act, 2006 (Bill M208) G.

Gentner Statements (Standing Order 25B) .............................................................................................................................. ............. 4904 Child care system D. Thorne Provincial sales tax review R. Sultan Arne Knudsen G. Gentner Volunteers in Burnaby and Coquitlam H. Bloy Ridge Meadows Women's Centre M. Sather Mining industry in interior B.C. J.

Rustad Oral Questions................................................................................................................. ......................................................... 4906 Softwood lumber agreement B. Simpson Hon. R. Coleman C. James Hon. G. Campbell M. Farnworth Government response to forestry concerns in Port Alberni S. Fraser Hon. R. Coleman Traffic safety on Pattullo Bridge B. Ralston Hon. J. Les J. Brar Waiting lists for child care D. Thorne Hon. L. Reid Financial assistance for immigrant students G. Robertson Hon. M.

Coell Petitions...................................................................................................................... ............................................................... 4910 D. Cubberley J. Kwan M. Karagianis Committee of Supply............................................................................................................ ................................................... 4910 Estimates: Office of the Premier (continued) C. James Hon. G. Campbell M. Sather

Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room Committee of Supply............................................................................................................ ................................................... 4936 Estimates: Ministry of Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Multiculturalism (continued) R. Chouhan Hon. W. Oppal J. Kwan L. Krog Estimates: Other appropriations

4903 TUESDAY, MAY 16, 2006 The House met at 2:04 p.m. Introductions by Members Hon. G. Abbott: We have the pleasure today of welcoming representatives from the Multiple Sclerosis Society to the House. In particular, we look forward to welcoming Kathy Croucher , Todd Abercrombie and Chris Fortune to the Legislature. They've provided all members of the House with a red carnation. The red carnat ion is a symbol of hope in the search for a cure for multiple sclerosis.

They're a l s o h e r e t o r e c o g n i z e t h a t r e c e n t l y M a y w a s p r o - claimed as Multiple Sclerosis Awareness Month in British Columbia. I ask that the House please make these guests wel- come and applaud the wonderful work they do in rais- ing awareness of MS and in searching for a cure. [1405] M. Farnworth: Well, there are a number of great schools in my riding, hon. Speaker. It's my pleasure to introduce a group of grade 11 students from the B.C. Christian Academy accompanied by their teacher Mr. Wiens. They are here today to learn about how this chamber functions.

Would the House please make them most welcome. M. Polak: Today in the precincts, visiting from my riding of Langley, are students in a grade five class from Belmont Elementary School. Along with them are two very good friends of mi ne, Cindy and Tanaya Hof. Would the House please make them welcome. D. Chudnovsky: Today in the gallery visiting us from Toronto are my parents. Pearl and Hy Chud are here today. Everything I ever needed to know about politics and social justice, I learned from them. Please help me in making them welcome. J.

Rustad: It's a great pleasure today to introduce someone who comes to us from Ontario, who was sworn in yesterday as our new Ombudsman for British Columbia — Kim Carter. She comes with excellent references, and I look forward to the work that she will be doing for us in this province. D. Routley: One of the fine schools in my riding is Lake Cowichan Secondary in the beautiful town of Lake Cowichan where, of course, it never rains. They are visiting us with a grou p of students from Trois- Rivières, Quebec, and their c oordinators are with them as well. The coordinator from Trois-Rivières is Isobel Guy.

She has brought 23 stud ents with her. The coor- dinating teacher from Lake Cowichan is Vanessa MacDowell, with 21 students. They've come to see how politics works inside the Ho use, and outside they got to see that the best politics works from the ground up into this chamber. Hon. K. Falcon: In the precinct today we are joined by 26 grade five students from Cloverdale Catholic elementary school. They are joined by their teacher Ms. Brady, along with five pa rents who are accompanying them. I would ask the House to please help me make them welcome today. R.

Fleming: In the gallery with us today is a con- s t i t u e n t o f m i n e . I t ' s D r . L a r r y H a n n a n t , w h o ' s a n a d - junct professor of history at the University of Victoria and a contributor to the Great Unsolved Mysteries in Ca- nadian History website. Would the House please make Dr. Hannant feel welcome. C. Trevena: We've had lots of introductions of school parties, but school parties would be nowhere without their teachers. I hope the House will make welcome one of the guests in the gallery, a constituent of mine and a retired teacher. Julia Davies taught for 28 years in Gold River.

I hope the House will make her very welcome. Hon. C. Richmond: A young gentleman from Fort McMurray is visiting us today — Blake Robert. Blake has participated in the youth model parliament in B.C. for the past few years, and he will be attending Univer- sity Canada West this fall. Would the House please make him most welcome. S. Fraser: There are a number of residents from my constituency here today, who are concerned about child care issues.

Would you help me welcome four of my constituents: Margaret McGarry and Nikky Bezanson from the Hummingbird Child Care Centre and Alannah Miller and Marion Pickton from North Island College. Please help me make them feel welcome. D. Chudnovsky: My colleague the member for Mount Pleasant and my leader insist that I introduce to you once again a woman who I have introduced to you before. You'll know her as the finest political organizer in the known universe. Ruth Herman, my partner, is in the gallery again today. [1410] Introduction and First Reading of Bills UTILITIES COMMISSION AMENDMENT ACT, 2006 G.

Gentner presented a bill intituled Utilities Com- mission Amendment Act, 2006. G. Gentner: I move the bill be read a first time today. Motion approved. G. Gentner: I'm pleased to introduce the Utilities Commission Amendment Act, 2006, before the House today. This bill stipulates that proposed high-voltage

4904 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, MAY 16, 2006 transmission lines located within the vicinity of settled areas, parks, recreational areas, residential areas, pri- vate and public schools, child day facilities and play- grounds will come under immense scrutiny under provincial law. The bill mandates the Utilities Commis- sion to weigh adverse effe cts, including electromag- netic fields and all policies concerning public health and safety. The mandate of the B.C. Utilities Commission must move forward and reflect the 21st century with a strengthened triple-bottom-line approach.

This bill spells out new stringent siting criteria for overhead electrical transmission lines with a capacity of 345 kilo- volts within a residential neighbourhood. We must recognize the threat of EMF to public health. For example, the following family in Delta has been severely impacted. Four out of five family mem- bers who live in a home along a right-of-way have been diagnosed with cancer. One brother at 30 with bowel cancer. His sister diagnosed with ovarian cancer. The father, prostate. The step-mom died of lung cancer.

A neighbour on one side has stomach cancer, and the other two neighbours both have died of cancer. In many jurisdictions, le gislation has tightened up EMF regs. The bill directs the Utilities Commission to consider keeping high-voltage transmission lines away from residential areas and states that any proposal to increase the voltage of tran smission facilities within residential areas would automatically trigger a review to see if a viable alternative can be found. I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting after today.

Bill M208, Utilities Commission Amendment Act, 2006, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Statements (Standing Order 25

B) CHILD CARE SYSTEM D. Thorne: May is Child Care Month, the month during which we draw attention to the important and valuable work undertaken by early childhood educa- tors. Their contribution to society and to our children is immeasurable. For this, I thank them. Quality child care is important not just for children, who actually need early childhood education to de- velop in a healthy way, but it's also important for par- ents because it allows them to work without fear for the safety of their child. Recent statistics show the true costs of child care to be about $54,000 from birth to age 18.

This reality has finally forced a public discussion about child care in a country and indeed a province that has not, according to the OECD, developed a co- herent long-term vision for early learning and child care. This lack of a plan in British Columbia for child care further highlights the OECD's criticisms, which are most strongly felt by parents of the children we are discussing and early childhood educators, who operate within a disparate and under-resourced patchwork of services. Quality within the child care system hinges on trained staff, livable wages, and affordable and accessi- ble child care spaces.

Early childhood educators in this province are the key to the development of a quality system, working alongside the provincial government that is openly and aggre ssively committed to this worthwhile goal. It is clear that the federal government has wiped its hands of a universal system of child care. This is a monumental loss to all of us and to all Cana- dians. We must all take action. We need to invest in our children today. PROVINCIAL SALES TAX REVIEW R. Sultan: I rise today to talk about the provincial sales tax.

Last June this government, under the leader- ship of our Premier, committed to a comprehensive re- view of British Columbia's PST. The Minister of Small Business and Revenue was asked to go across the prov- ince to meet British Columb ians and to listen. The Pre- mier asked the minister to receive this advice and use it to design a PST which was simpler, more streamlined and more fair. [1415] From November through April the minister chaired consultation sessions in 20 communities from Abbots- ford to Williams Lake. I played a support role in about a third of those meetings.

Many businesspersons told us they hope PST administration could be made less challenging. For example, the government expects re- tail clerks to remember that paint used for fishing boats is tax-exempt, while paint used for whale-watching boats is not. On and on it goes. Progress is already bein g achieved. For example, the B.C. Agriculture Council is working on streamlined PST rules with the minister, for agriculture. Mean- while, hundreds of submissions have been received. As an observer, I've been impr essed by the degree of pub- lic interest and by the commitment and zeal of ministry staff.

There is still time for the public to submit their advice, but the deadline is only three days away. E-mail the min- ister your advice at www.sbr.gov.bc.ca/pstreview or by fax or post. British Columbians should not miss this golden opportunity to further improve the tax environ- ment for B.C.'s thriving commercial sector. ARNE KNUDSEN G. Gentner: On May 29, Delta is recognizing Arne Knudsen. Arne arrived in Delta in 1929, and like thou- sands, he rode the rails. Ho wever, in this remarkable story, by 1936 he was on the podium staring down Hitler as the recipient of the Olympic bronze medal for swimming.

Arne knew what fascism was, and a year later he was fighting Franco. During the Second World War he

TUESDAY, MAY 16, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 4905 became one of Canada's expert anti-tank gunners. On July 10, 1943, Sergeant Knudsen led the first Canadian division to Sicily. In Italy he became a prisoner of the Nazis, but before escaping, he promised the prison commander that he would visit his family in Sas- katchewan. The commander died in an Allied bombing raid, but Arne fulfilled his word and did pay a visit to a little town in Saskatchewan. A t S a v i o h e t o o k s h r a p n e l i n t h e l e g a n d , l a t e r , a bullet through his shoulder.

Arne is one of the most decorated soldiers of British Columbia. His most cher- ished award is the Bronze Star he received at the White House from President Truman for his courageous bravery in saving members of the Tennessee Rangers on January 11, 1944. After the war, Arne settled in North Delta and be- came a chicken farmer and an operating engineer. By 1946 Arne started the North Delta Ratepayers Associa- tion and became captain of the volunteer fire depart- ment by purchasing a 1926 Studebaker fire truck. On May 6, Arne Knudsen celebrated his 96th birth- day.

He is the stuff that builds communities, and he is the second person ever to receive the Freedom of the Municipality Award, Delta. In my community, Arne is an icon, and I ask this assembly to please recognize somebody who has truly made a difference. VOLUNTEERS IN BURNABY AND COQUITLAM H. Bloy: It is well known that volunteers are inte- gral to building and maintaining strong communities. Through their hard work and commitment, volunteers and community service organizations provide an in- valuable service to communities across British Colum- bia.

The result is significant cultural, economic, social and educational benefit for our communities. One in three people living in the cities of Burnaby and Coquitlam volunteers for various organizations. That's 145,000 people in all who provide assistance to these organizations to make the region a better place to live. It has been my pleasure to deliver grants to many of these groups in my riding of Burquitlam. SHARE Family and Community Services Society is one such recipient, led by Joanne Granek. This non-profit agency provides leadership and programs to people of all ages to strengthen families and communities.

Another recipient is the Stoney Creek streamkeep- ers association, led by Jennifer Atchinson and her many volunteers. Their efforts in preserving and main- taining the salmon spawning creek and watershed will make sure the creek will be there for future generations to enjoy. There are so many groups that I could name: B.C. Adoption; Burnaby Mountain Biking Association, led by Ron Burton; Variety, the children's charity; Scouts; Guides; Lions; the Rotary Club; Kinsmen; Burnaby Family Life; sports groups; and the cultural and arts.

These groups and their ha rd-working volunteers are making a real difference, and I am proud that we are able to support their work. I want to thank all the vol- unteers who make British Columbia the best place on earth to live. [1420] RIDGE MEADOWS WOMEN'S CENTRE M. Sather: This afternoon I am pleased to speak about the excellent work being done by the Ridge Meadows Women's Centre in Pitt Meadows. The centre has been providing poverty relief and support to Ma- ple Ridge and Pitt Meadows residents for over ten years.

Some of the programs that the centre provides include a nutritional hot lunch program; a bread bank, emergency food; clothing and household items, includ- ing children's clothing and bikes. They also run a furni- ture donation registry for beds and couches, self-help groups, a moms group, and they provide space for Al- Anon and other local self-help groups. Until recently, the Women's Centre operated with a staff of three and approximat ely ten volunteers. Due to a lack of funding, the centre is now left with only one staff — its coordinator, Cheryl Lynne Peters.

Cheryl Lynne has cut back on her hours and her pay so that the centre can remain open for a longer period. As it now stands, unless they rece ive the funding they have requested, the centre will close its doors on June 1. In a typical month the centre helps approximately 200 to 300 women and receives between 100 and 200 phone inquiries, crisis calls and referrals. Cheryl Lynne recently told me a story of one of the women who goes to the centre once a week to get bread for her three children and herself. One day she walked in limping, and Cheryl Lynne asked if something was wrong. She said her feet hurt.

When Cheryl Lynne looked down, she saw that the shoes she was wearing were really worn and didn't fit properly. She took her down to the area where they have clothe s and shoes, and she came back out with a nice pair of shoes and clothes for her and her children. The centre also arranged for the woman to get a food hamper. The woman was so grateful that she told Cheryl Lynne that without the centre, she could not live. She explained that she had moved to Pitt Mead- ows because of the low rent, but she didn't have a car, and she was barely making ends meet to take care of herself and her three children.

MINING INDUSTRY IN INTERIOR B.C. J. Rustad: Everyone knows the impact that the mountain pine beetle is having on the central interior. The red menace is creating huge challenges, and gov- ernment is working with municipalities, first nations and community-based groups to meet the challenges head-on. With the annual allowable cut expected to drop in the next seven to ten years, it's imperative that we help to create alternatives for the people working in the forest industry. Mining presents one of the best opportunities to ensure that rural residents can continue to maintain the lifestyles they've ch osen.

A little more than a year ago

4906 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, MAY 16, 2006 the province committed $25 million for the creation of Geoscience B.C., whose job it is to identify mineral po- tential in the province and to provide the first glimpse of where resources might be found. This is absolutely essential, because if we're to diversify, we need to know where the resources are and provide the blue- print for exploration. The central interior has been traditionally underex- plored. The focus of Geoscience B.C. and mining com- p a n i e s i s m u c h w e l c o m e .

W e w a n t t h e j o b s , a n d w e want the stability that the mining sector can bring. Mining provides good, family-supporting jobs. The average wage in the mining industry is $94,000 a year, including benefits. Those are the kinds of jobs that can really help families build a future not just for them- selves but for generations to come. We all know there will be a transition period for our rural economy due to the mountain pine beetle.

The pros- pect presented by mining — whether it's Mount Milligan o r P r o s p e r i t y i n m y r i d i n g , o r a n u n k n o w n d e p o s i t — means truck drivers, millwrights and loggers can stay in places they have come to call home. As mining thrives, it provides real optimism for the people of the central inte- rior for a bright and prosperous future. Oral Questions SOFTWOOD LUMBER AGREEMENT B. Simpson: Yesterday the Minister of Forests said that he was pleased the proposed softwood deal recog- nized first-mill price for remanufacturers.

He stated on numerous occasions that this part of the deal is vital to the continued viability of the value-added sector. My question is to the Minister of Forests and Range. Can the minister assure th is House that every value- added mill and the workers th at depend on these mills will be treated exactly the same under the proposed softwood deal? [1425] Hon. R. Coleman: Thank you to the member for his question. Under the deal, if a value-added manufac- turer buys its lumber from a first mill, they pay first- mill price.

If a value-added manufacturer is actually using its own wood from its own mill, they will be tied to a high-value cap. B. Simpson: The opposition has obtained a copy of the proposed softwood ag reement as of 10:10 this morning. According to this document, the first-mill price is only for companies operating independently from tenure holders — something the minister failed to mention yesterday. That means that thousands of jobs are still threatened in the value-added sector under the deal, depending on whether or not their mill qualifies for this first-mill price. My question is to the Minister of Forests.

Who will define the list of B.C. value-added mills that will sur- vive this deal? Will it be this government? Will it be Ottawa, or will it be Washington, D.C.? Hon. R. Coleman: Rather than react to a nonsensi- cal question on information that's completely untrue in this particular case…. You do not have a copy of the deal, hon. member. Mr. Speaker: Minister, through the Chair. Hon. R. Coleman: The deal isn't written. It's being technically put together, hon. Speaker, right now with people in jurisdictions across this country.

What you may have in front of you is what some- body else's concept of the deal may be — hon. member, through the Speaker. But you do not have the softwood lumber deal in front of you. Mr. Speaker: The member for Cariboo North has a further supplemental. B. Simpson: I do, Mr. Speaker. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. B. Simpson: I saw the original terms of reference for this on April 27 and 28. We have obtained a copy of the deal, softwood lumber agreement between the gov- ernment of Canada and the government of the United States of America, as of 10:10 this morning.

What's clear in this deal, because the clause clearly stipulates that the value-added sector is defined as "independent of the tenure holders…." It states that a list of those mills that qualify will be contained in appendix 3. Ap- pendix 3 is blank. This list of mills… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. B. Simpson: …that will get the preferred pricing is critical to the long-term viability of communities and the jobs of workers who depend on this value-added sector. Again, my question is to the Minister of Forests and Range.

When will this list be defined, and when will Washington let our communities and our workers know which value-added mills are going to survive this deal and which mills are not? Hon. R. Coleman: Mr. Speaker, through to the member: I don't care if you' ve got a draft of a docu- ment in front of you. I can tell you that even today in British Columbia, technical people are meeting with people from the ambassador's office of the United States with regards to what might be language con- tained in a softwood lumb er agreement with Canada and the United States.

I can tell you that we have groups of people — on the legal language side, on the technical side and on the industry side — working right now with regards to this agreement. Because the member has a draft of something that whoever may have written…. He has it

TUESDAY, MAY 16, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 4907 in front of him. That he wants to purport it to be the final document or a document on softwood is com- pletely incorrect. [1430] Hon. Speaker, through to the member: I want to remind you of this one little quote. "I think it's time to get serious. It's time to sit down at the table, provincial and federal governments together — I certainly hope that occurs — and get a deal worked out. I think it has been much too long." That was the Leader of the Oppo- sition on the 17th of March. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members.

The Leader of the Official Opposition has the floor. C. James: I appreciate the Minister of Forests talking about how passionate I am in ensuring that we get a good deal for the softwood, that we get a good deal for British Columbia — not a deal at no cost. A deal good for the people of British Columbia — that's the difference. The minister says he does n't care. Well, I can tell you that the opposition cares, and certainly the people of British Columbia care. The member for Cariboo North has raised some very important questions about the softwood deal.

This morning the Premier said his only concern with the agreem ent had to do with legal proceedings by the American government. My question to the Prem ier is: how can the Premier say that was the only concern when we see in a draft agreement a concern about jobs and communities? Hon. R. Coleman: I've been very clear that there is a value-added protection in this agreement, that there is a first-mill pricing in this agreement, that there's a high- value cap in this agreement.

The member opposite may want to question in her mind whether she thinks this is a good deal for British Columbians, but I can tell the mem- ber opposite that I have spoken to the reman sector. I have spoken to the value-added sector. I have spoken to large industries and small. I can tell the member opposite that there is huge support in the B.C. forest sector for this deal. Mr. Speaker: The Leader of the Opposition has a supplemental. C. James: I'm pleased to hear the Forests Minister has been talking to people, because that's exactly the direction that we as the opposition have been raising.

It's important for the people of this province to be able to have a say on the softwood deal. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. We listened to the answer. Let's listen to the question. Continue. C. James: Let's take a look at the chronology here. The Premier said this was a great deal for British Co- lumbia. The Forests Minister a little while later said this is the best deal B.C. could get. Then this morning we heard the Premier say it wasn't actually a deal; it's just a draft agreement. So my question is very simple.

British Columbians deserve to know the details of this agreement and how it will affect their jobs and their communities. Will the Premier assure British Columbians, before he signs off on the final agreement, that they will have an opportu- nity for a public debate on this deal? Hon. G. Campbell: The softwood lumber negotia- tions have been ongoing fo r some time. There was a previous softwood lumber agreement which the Leader of the Opposition may not be aware of.

We have a framework agreement that's in place, and as I said this m o r n i n g , o n e o f t h e t h i n g s t h a t i s i m p o r t a n t a s w e g o through this agreement is to get the details of the agree- ment in place. I want the Leader of the Opposition and all the members of the opposition and all the people in British Columbia to hear this. These are B.C.'s forests. These will be B.C.'s laws.

It will be B.C.'s forest practices that are put in place, and British Columbia's forest industry will continue to strive under a softwood agreement that will create stability and long-ter m opportunity for workers across this province, in the coast and in the interior. [1435] M. Farnworth: This side of the House has just told that side of the House that we have received a draft copy of the agreement as of 10:10 this morning. The Minister of Forests says it is a work-in-progress, and then he stands up and says: "But everyone signed on to the deal." Well, that's not how it works.

People sign on when there's a deal out there an d they can see where every- thing is — where every "i" and "t" is dotted and crossed. Until that deal has been tabled in this House for the people of British Columbia to see, we are going to continue to ask questions to ensure that the rights of workers and communities in this province are pro- tected in that deal. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. M. Farnworth: The problem is that the drafts of today have a problem of becoming the permanent text of tomorrow.

Once again, to the Premier: before this deal is done, will the people of this province have an opportunity to examine the deal, to have an open debate on the deal on the floor of this Legislature so that they can ensure that the interests of workers and forest companies and the public of British Columbia are protected in that deal? Hon. R. Coleman: I should remind the member that this isn't the jobs and timber accord that we're….

4908 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, MAY 16, 2006 Interjections. Hon. R. Coleman: This is actually an international trade agreement between two countries that's getting done — s o m e t h i n g t h a t h a s n ' t b e e n d o n e i n a l o n g , long time. It's something that's going to actually settle some problems this country has faced for a long, long time. It's going to change even the international rela- tionship between our two countries on a whole pleth- ora of other files. Through to the hon. member: I just want to have him think about this.

Just after it was announced that there was a framework agreement, an e-mail came to my office from a small manufa cturer in the Fraser Val- ley. He said this: "Thank you for getting this done. To- night I will tell my 80 employees they have full-time work and a future with my company because of what you did." GOVERNMENT RESPONSE TO FORESTRY CONCERNS IN PORT ALBERNI S. Fraser: The Premier just eloquently stated that the trees in B.C. belong to the people of B.C.

Well, the people of Port Alberni and the Alberni Valley have been watching thousands of truckloads of logs leave their valley, and they're coming here to the Legislature tomorrow out of frustration. Two months ago the Minister of Forests and Range promised that he would visi t Port Alberni and see the results of some of those forest policies on the ground. He discounted the concerns of those residents as pri- vate land issues. Well, in 2004 this government re- moved land — 70,000 hectares — from TFL 44 — out- side of the public scrutiny and public rules.

That was done without public consultation, and it was done against the advice of ministerial staff. Since his government crea ted the problems in Port Alberni, what will this minister do to correct them? Hon. R. Coleman: It's interesting — this question coming in this tone from this member — when I actu- ally told the member that the reason I didn't make it to Port Alberni during the break weeks is because I was buried, working on negotiations on the softwood lum- ber file to find a long-term solution for forestry in Brit- ish Columbia.

If the member were actually paying attention, he would know that I've also spent a week in estimates debates. I've had two pieces of legislation in this House since that period of time, and — oh, by the way — I happened to go up to Port Alice to open a pulp mill that had been shut down, because the government did something. On Friday we opened the largest OSB plant in the world in Fort St. John. [1440] I also told the member at the time that I would get to Port Alberni after session. We only have three more days to go. The fact of the matter is….

The member is also aware of the fact that the coalition has concerns in the valley. The mayor of Port Alberni and other people will be meeting with me tomorrow afternoon at three o'clock to discuss this very issue. TRAFFIC SAFETY ON PATTULLO BRIDGE B. Ralston: Five lives have been lost on the Pattullo Bridge this year — 15 since 2001. In almost all cases, speed has been a contributing factor. Surrey RCMP traffic operations sergeant Paul Mulvihill has noted that his division responds on a daily basis to incidents on the bridge. Prevention? Th e RCMP had this to say.

" I t ' s i m p o s s i b l e t o g o o n t h a t b r i d g e a n d d o a n y e n - forcement." What has been the response of the Solicitor General to the cry for a simple, cost-effective solution? He says: "It's not going to happen." For him, apparently, politics is more important than safety. My question is to the Solicitor General. Will he make the safety of motorists on th e Pattullo Bridge a priority and install a speed camera on the Pattullo Bridge? Hon. J. Les: Traffic enforcement is an issue of con- cern for all of us in this Ho use.

I'm happy to report to the House that we've made numerous investments in policing resources across the province, specifically in the lower mainland as well. We have seen the largest increase in policing resources in British Columbia in a generation in the last four years. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. J. Les: A s w e l l , w e h a v e r e t u r n e d t r a f f i c f i n e revenues to municipalities. That's an additional $50 million a year going into municipalities to help pay for policing.

As well, we have integrated our policing re- sources in the province so that they are better able to operate interjurisdictionally to help address some of these issues. B. Ralston: The same Sergeant Mulvihill says that there are no further police resources in the Surrey de- tachment to do any extra traffic enforcement on the Pattullo Bridge. There are others who have expressed the same view as myself.

The Minister of Transpor tation has said: "In the case of a fixed camera on a bridge, the thinking person would ask how different that is from intersection cam- eras that photograph people going through red lights." Indeed, Mr. Speaker. Perhaps the Solicitor General can tell us how it is that his cabinet colleague readily recognizes the solu- tion to the problem, and he doesn't. Will the Solicitor General make a commitment today to put safety first on the Pattullo Bridge? Hon. J. Les: Let me be very clear. There are no plans to reintroduce photo radar in British Columbia.

I think I have also been very clear, in terms of my p r e v i o u s a n s w e r , t h a t w e h a v e m a d e n u m e r o u s a d d i -

TUESDAY, MAY 16, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 4909 tional resources available to municipalities and to the police in British Columbia. If there are particular spots where increased enforcement is needed, the resources are there. It's a matter of allocation. J. Brar: I think the minister needs to understand his portfolio more clearly. We are asking about the Pattullo Bridge, not the police. All the questions aren't about police. We understand about the police issue. We do need a cost-effective and safe solution for the Pattullo Bridge. The situatio n is very clear. The city council of Surrey is on board.

The RCMP is on board. All members of this side of the House are on board. Even the Minister of Transpor tation, from that side of the House, is on board. There is only one person who is refusing to take action, and that's the Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General. [1445] Clearly, the minister is not listening to the people of British Columbia and the people of Surrey on this issue. We are not asking for photo radar. We are asking for a speed camera. The minister needs to understand that. I will give one more chance to the minister.

Will the minister commit today to implementing a proactive and effective solution to st em the carnage on the Pat- tullo Bridge? Hon. J. Les: There seems to be one issue that the member opposite forgets about. That is the fact that it's actually TransLink that is responsible for the operation of the bridge. I am aware, as I suspect the member op- posite is aware as well… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. J. Les: …that they actually have plans to add certain features to the bridge that'll make it safer for people to drive. I applaud th at response by TransLink.

If there are any other bells and whistles they'd like to add to the bridge, obviously they're free to do that. WAITING LISTS FOR CHILD CARE D. Thorne: Quality child care must be available and accessible to the families that need it most when they need it. This government says it is committed to pro- viding this. Yet they have no plan to deal with the growing wait-lists at child care centres across this prov- ince. For every available child care space, there are nine children who need it. That means nine sets of parents who may have to consider leaving the workforce be- cause of their impossible situation.

This question is for the Minister of State for Child- care. This crisis is today, not tomorrow. What is your government going to do to address these growing wait-lists now? Hon. L. Reid: This government is committed to the creation of quality child care experiences in British Columbia, and our record speaks for itself. We very much want parents to have the opportunity to work, to study and to parent effectivel y. In the past ten months this government has created 1,500 new child care spaces.

Frankly, I would put our ten months up against the previous administration's ten years in terms of the creation of child care spaces in British Columbia — 1,498 spaces, an additional thousand spaces renovated in the province, so 2,500 opportunities for children to be in quality child care in British Columbia. That is our commitment. We have delivered on it. Mr. Speaker: The member for Coquitlam-Maillardville has a supplemental. D. Thorne: Well, according to the minister, things are going along just swimmingly.

If that's the case, why is there a child care rally going on right now, as we speak, on the front lawn of the Legislature? There are hundreds of worried, frustrated and angry parents and their children on the front la wn. I was there; I spoke. I may have missed members from the opposite side, but I didn't see anybody there, because they think things are going along so swimmingly. If things are so great in British Columbia and we have so many new spaces, why are there still 1,500 people on the waiting lists at Collingwood Neighbour- hood House? Why does it take two years to get a child care space in Victoria?

Does this minister not remem- ber that it was her government that cut subsidies $285 a month, forcing children out of child care centres and child care centres out of business? When will this government finally admit they are failing B.C. families and make a real investment in child care in this province? [1450] Hon. L. Reid: Actions in British Columbia speak louder than words. The individuals we have consulted with across this province have asked for a lift in sub- sidy. We delivered. They asked for a lift in child care operating funding. We delivered.

They asked for a lift in supported child development funding. We deliv- ered. They asked for a lift in child care resource and referral funding. We delivered. Those supports are in place today for British Columbia families. Interjection. Mr. Speaker: Member. Hon. L. Reid: I would invite any member opposite — other than continuing to build support for a rally — to actually be constructive, be proactive and build a child care space in British Columbia.

We, indeed, have municipalities today that are partnering with us, school districts that are partnering with us, aboriginal com- munities and non-profits — people who are delivering in the best interests of British Columbia families. Brit- ish Columbia will be better as a result.

4910 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, MAY 16, 2006 FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE FOR IMMIGRANT STUDENTS G. Robertson: This morning I was with a group of students in Vancouver who are desperately seeking help from the Minister of Advanced Education. They represent hundreds of students struggling to make sense of the decisions that are made by the B.C. student assistance program. They applied for and received grants, paid their tuition and started their studies. Now the government is going after them for those grants, plus interest. Debts are as high as $11,000. Many are desperate.

They've quit th eir studies and are working low-wage jobs just to try to cover their payments. Somewhere between the private institutions and the government, the system failed these students. What is the Minister of Advanced Education doing to get to the bottom of this, and what is he going to do to help these students? Hon. M. Coell: The province makes available yearly about $300 million for student loans. Landed immigrants are treated like domestic students when they apply. Since the 1990s governments have audited about 5 percent of student loans every year. They also audit institutions.

When those audits are done — and they agree to those audits before they receive their payments — it gives the credibility to the taxpayers for those programs. I am aware of a number of the students that the member brings forward, because they've written me and copied him. We take those very seriously, and we're looking into them. Mr. Speaker: The member for Vancouver-Fairview has a supplemental. G. Robertson: These students are landed immi- grants. Almost all are professionals from mainland China who came to B.C. to build a new life, to upgrade their degrees and credentials.

What does that say about how we welcome new immigrants from China? They trusted this government for financial assistance. Now they have huge debts for an education they didn't get. Some are single mothers. Many are families with small children. The system messed up. To date, the minister has let these people down. He's failed to release the audit information to help clear up the confusion. Will the minister commit today to personally intervene and find a way to help these new immigrant students? Hon. M. Coell: The ministry intervened as soon as it got a letter from those students.

We are working with student services to do audits on those institutions. We're doing audits that will, hopefully, help some of those students. The member also asked me during estimates whether we would release that information. I told him that it would be done shortly and would be released to him shortly. He also asked for a lot of other reports — he didn't need to go through freedom of information — which we just made available to him. That's another way that they can get the information they want. Just ask for it rather than go through freedom of informa- tion. [End of question period.] Petitions D.

Cubberley: I have a petition from 126 registered nurses that I would like to table in support of a com- prehensive medical safety sharp regulation. [1455] J. Kwan: I also rise to table a petition. This is a peti- tion to ask the government to stop the emergency cuts at Mount Saint Joseph Hospital, along with seven en- dorsing organizations, which are the Chinese Benevo- lent Association, the Ch eng Wing Yeong Tong, the Shon Yee Benevolent Association of Canada, the Chi- nese Freemasons of Canada national headquarters, the Gee How Oak Tin Association of Vancouver and the Taiwanese Canadian Cultural Society.

Together there are 3,239 signatures. M. Karagianis: I rise to present a petition. This is from residents in my riding who are opposed to the commercial endeavours at Royal Roads University. I have 119 signatures. Orders of the Day Hon. M. de Jong: Mr. Speaker, for the information of members, I call Committee of Supply in this cham- ber — the continued estimates of the Office of the Pre- mier, and in the other House, Committee A, the con- tinued estimates of the Ministry of Attorney General and Ministry Responsible for Multiculturalism.

Committee of Supply ESTIMATES: OFFICE OF THE PREMIER (continued) The House in Committee of Supply (Section B); S. Hawkins in the chair. The committee met at 2:59 p.m. On Vote 9: Office of the Premier, $12,482,000 (con- tinued). H. Bains: I ask leave to make an introduction. Leave granted. Introductions by Members H. Bains: In the House today is my good friend, the person who was actually instrumental in my cam-

TUESDAY, MAY 16, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 4911 paign, Mr. Pardonsing Takur, and his wife, and they are joined by their guest. Would the House join me in welcoming them to this House, please. [1500] Debate Continued C. James: Continuing on where we left off at lunch- time today, which was talking about health care and some of the challenges around the province and some specific examples of challenges around the province, I'd like to talk a little bit about the interior health region. As we know, the health region was hardest hit when it came to bed cuts.

We saw on e in five long-term care beds, almost a thousand beds in that region alone, cut by the Liberal government. The acute care bed cuts went even deeper: 24 percent of the beds were cut there. Again, following along in a similar kind of discus- sion that we had this morning, where we talked about the impact of decisions that were made, my question to the Premier is: the crisis in the interior health region that's been raised by doctors, by nurses, by patients and families — does the Premier see a relationship be- tween those specific beds in this region…?

I'm not talk- ing about the general numbers that the Premier was disputing this morning. I am talking about specific numbers in that region. Does the Premier see that those specific decisions to cut th ose beds in the interior health region had an impact on the quality of health care we see right now in the interior health region? Hon. G. Campbell: You know, I think it's impor- tant to recognize that the Health estimates are actually carried out separately from the Premier's estimates. I am glad to speak generally about what we've been trying to accomplish in health care.

When we were elected government, we had 52 health authorities across the province consuming dollars and resources and taking away from people. We had a challenge with specialists in interior communities. We had a challenge with physicians in rural communities. The approach that we've taken was to say that what we wanted to do was to expand the opportunity for workers. We expanded the opportunity for training across the province. We've expanded the investment across the province.

The Interi or Health Authority is a large health authority, and the details of the Interior Health Authority's plan can be canvassed in estimates. I'm surprised after 16 hours of estimates that these questions weren't canvassed. I can tell you this. In Ca nada we have faced some substantial challenges; in British Columbia we have. I mentioned some of those this morning. The plan that we laid out provides for people, provides for facilities, provides for services, provides for substantial capital investment. We're going to continue to pursue those goals and those objectives. Just to go back.

Are there going to be challenges in health care? Of course there are. They're going to be ongoing. Are we making progress? Yes, we're making substantial progress. If I can just talk for a moment about what we are trying to do in health care, because I think that's impor- tant. We, frankly, very seld om hear from the opposi- tion about what their objectives are. Our objective was to fill a substantial human resource deficit that was allowed to build up over the 1990s.

It's going to be a challenge that's ongoing not only as the population ages and puts more demands on the health care system but as the health care prov iders age and decide that they want to go and do something else. I think the fact is, under the current circumstances where we watch as the province has invested over $3.5 billion more in the last five and a half years in our health care system, that we have to look at how we can deal with those resources in a more positive way.

The reason that we want to engage British Columbians and the opposition in a discussion about how we improve health care for them is that it's actually all of us that are going to have to be part of that solution. We've invested substantia l new resources in health prevention. That's not going to pay off in the next month. It's going to pay off in the next number of years — maybe over the next decade. We are trying to encour- age British Columbians to be more physically active. All of those things will take place in the interior. They'll take place in the lower mainland. They'll take place in the north.

There ha ve been significant invest- ments in the interior health region to try and provide facilities for people, better locations for specialists to be located, whether it's in Kamloops or in Cranbrook or in other communities in the interior. I think that the Interior Health Authority has had some challenges. They have tried to deal with those up- front. They've dealt with them openly, and I think they've made real progress over the last number of years. [1505] C.

James: It's very clear the Premier is uncomfort- able when I'm asking questions around health care and would prefer that I only ever asked the Health Minister those questions. Reality is that the Premier made health care an issue of the Premier's office. He might remem- ber back to his own throne speech, which mentioned that health care was a priority for the Premier and gov- ernment. I think it's only approachable to ask the Pre- mier questions on health care when the Premier has stated very clearly that this is an issue of importance to him, so I'll continue on to ask another specific question.

Yesterday we learned that emergency physicians at Mount Saint Joseph will not be cut, that emergency service, in fact, is going to remain the same for seven months. If the June 1 cut had gone ahead, only one doctor would have been available at Mount Saint Jo- seph's emergency between 8 a.m. and 8 p.m. The can- cellation of the cut, as we all know, is a huge victory for patients, the community who spoke out and the doc- tors who spoke out. Can the Premier please tell us where the funding for this expansion of care is coming from?

Will it come from the Ministry of Health, or will it come from the internal budget of Providence Health?

4912 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, MAY 16, 2006 Hon. G. Campbell: I'm pleased to talk about this, because the Leader of the Opposition has raised it. What is the government? What is our vision? What did we raise in the throne speech? We raised the fact t h a t h e a l t h c a r e i n C a n a d a n e e d s t o b e s u s t a i n a b l e . Here's the choice. The opposition faces it, too, and frankly, I don't hear anything from the opposition. I've heard no vision from the opposition on what to do. The fact of the matter is: we have to decide whether we want our health care system to be sustainable or not.

Do we want the next generation and the generation of Canadians that follow them to have a sustainable, long- term health care system? We want it to be sustainable. We believe that we have to engage the people of British Columbia in that discussion. I had the opportunity to go and visit four separate countries around Europe that had actually done better than British Columbia in a lot of cases, and better than Canada in a lot of cases, in meeting the needs that their people had identified. I think it's important to go out- side of the province to hear what else is happening, to see how we can do better.

Now, we've heard from the opposition that you shouldn't go outside, or yo u should go outside, that you should have a conversation, or you shouldn't have a conversation. Everybody knows what to do. Well, I can tell you that the opposition doesn't k n o w w h a t t o d o , h o n . C h a i r . T h i s i s w h a t w e k n o w . The challenge for me is not that I don't want to talk about health care; it's that the Leader of the Opposition doesn't much like the facts. Here are the facts. There has been a 56-percent in- crease in the funding for physicians at Mount Saint Joseph.

A 56-percent increase — that's important. It's trying to provide support. It's also important to note that what we've said to health authorities, what we say to people that are responsible for carrying these things out is…. We ask them to make the best decisions for their communities and their facilities to maximize health care benefits for people, to maximize the bene- fits for patients. Now, maybe the opposition would like to do some- thing else. Maybe they think it 's better to go back to what they had in the 1990s. Certainly, they all sup- ported it then. Maybe they think it's better not to have a plan.

Maybe they think it's better not to face up to the challenges we have in health care. Maybe they think we shouldn't invest in physicians. Maybe they think we shouldn't invest in nurses. We sure haven't heard what they think we should do. We've been investing in emergency wards. We've been investing in capital plans. We've been investing in equipment. We've been investing in MRIs. We've been investing in new dialysis equipment, going across the province. We've been inve sting in new electronic health, new opportunities for e-health.

All of those things are aimed at raising the quality of health care in British Columbia. Again, the opposition, the critic, the leader are very confused. They're so confused that they don't even know what Health estimates are for, hon. Chair. Health estimates are for the opposition critic to come and deal directly with the minister responsible, with the minis- try officials. They can deal with all the details of the questions that are there. Th ere were 16 hours of esti- mates that were available for them to pursue these things and to discuss them. I believe that that's the way the estimates should be.

Where are we going in health care? Where we're going is capital investments — literally billions of dol- lars in capital investments over the next number of years — education, training, reac hing out with a stable workforce that we're able to work with in partnership to build even better quality health care for British Co- lumbians. When we started out in th e throne speech, we said we had to ask ourselves some questions. Do we believe that in the health care system that sustainability should be another principle for the Canada Health Act? [1510] What do we mean by accessibility? What do we mean by portability?

I can tell you that in British Columbia we have a far, far more enhanced health service than many other provinces in the country. That's why we're rated number one by the Conference Board of Canada. We have to move forward. We've invested literally billions of additional dollars. We're looking forward to continuing to improve the quality of care, the quality of services for people across the province. That's what improving ambulance service was about. It's what putting defibrillating machines in am- bulances was about. It's what increasing training for ambulance attendants was about.

It was about working with the B.C. ambulance association to make sure that we've made that work for everybody in the province as a front-line provider of health care. If you go to the north today, you'll find that they don't have nearly the challenges that they had just six years ago. If you go to Cranbrook today, they'll tell you they have additional specialists and additional physicians. If you go to just about any hospital, they'll tell you they've got more nurses than they did. We need more still. That's why we're training them. That's why we've created a 62-percent increase in funding for nurse train- ing.

That's why we've increased the number of nurses that are in the system. We've got more to do. We'll keep doing it. We'll work with the health authorities to do it. We'll work with communities to do it, and we'll work with pa- tients to do it. We'll continue to lead the country. C. James: Well, we're going to continue to make the Premier uncomfortable and ask health care questions, because the public expects th e Premier of this province to answer questions on the most important issue facing British Columbians right now. They expect that the Premier would answer questi ons about health care.

I find it extraordinary that the Premier would lecture us to say that we shouldn't be asking questions on health care, one of the key issues to the people of this province and one of the key issues, in fact, on the Premier's own agenda.

TUESDAY, MAY 16, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 4913 The Premier headed off to Europe to study health care without the Health Minister, so that would cer- tainly leave the public believing that health care is a key issue the Premier wishes to look at. I find it ex- traordinary that the Premier would once again lecture us on asking questions of importance to the people of British Columbia — extraordinary. I also find it incredible that the Premier would say that he hasn't been listening to any ideas from the op- position.

Well, he may not ha ve been listening, and the Health Minister may not ha ve been listening, but cer- tainly the communications people for government have been listening, because every time we raise an issue, they solve it. Whether it's, in fact, emergency room funding, whether it's a doctor in Cr eston, whether it's funding for Mount Saint Joseph, whether it's long-term care beds reopened after we raised a question — issue after issue after issue we have raised — the Premier and the Health Minister continue to deny that there's a chal- lenge.

But miraculously, after the issue is raised, we find that the government starts paying attention to this issue. I think it's a very sad stat ement when health care is done to get issues out of the headlines instead of as the right thing to do. My questi on back to the Premier, very specific: can the Premie r assure the House that no other health services will be cut at Mount Saint Joseph as a result of the changed plan in emergency care? Hon. G.

Campbell: Let me just say that in terms of the challenges we face with the opposition, they tend to say one thing one day and another the next, depending on what the circumstances are. In terms of Mount Saint Jo seph, what we're doing is working with Providence. The Health Ministry will work with Providence. They will work with the profes- sionals there. They will have a plan that will be in place that will work in the best interests of the people who use that facility. That's what the goal is. That's what we're going to do. C.

James: No answer, once again, as we've seen with almost every specific question we have asked on health care, on issues that matter to people in commu- nities, so I'm going to try again. On behalf of those communities and those patients who are struggling, a question around Kelowna. [1515] We have seen, again, code purple at Kelowna Gen- eral, and when doctors were asked why it was that patients weren't sent to nearby hospitals in Penticton, in Vernon, in Oliver, in Os oyoos, in Summerland or in Princeton, the doctors simply laughed.

They said it was impossible because Kelowna General was already the overflow hospital for the region suffering because of cuts in beds by the Liberal government. Again, my question to the Premier: will he accept that there were decisions made by the Liberal govern- ment that impacted the code purples that we're seeing at Kelowna General Hospital? Hon. G. Campbell: As was pointed out in the House the other day, there was a code purple the other day in the Kelowna hospital. Unfortunately, there was a major vehicle accident. There were three vehicles involved. It was resolved within an hour. H o n .

C h a i r , I ' m g l a d t o e n g a g e t h e L e a d e r o f t h e Opposition with regard to what we've done in health care. We have literally invested millions of dollars in health care in terms of the emergency health facilities we've done. We've invested $7 million in putting to- gether a plan that's brough t everyone together. It's been something the government has been working on for some time. We've got $100 million in renovating emergency rooms across the province. Is there pressure in heal th care? Yes, there's pres- sure.

The fastest-growing econ omic region of the prov- ince happens to be the Thompson-Okanagan. The Okanagan Valley is a very fast, vibrant, healthy com- munity. People are moving there. We're going to have to have a capital plan that responds to that, and it will take time for that plan to be in place. But let's be clear. As we look to the future in health care in this government, we are asking people…. We're glad to hear from the opposition. The opposition wants to deal with operational matters down in different hospitals. That's what they did when they were in gov- ernment.

That's why they wasted so much of the tax- payers' dollars. That's why they didn't have a real plan, because they kept on trying to interfere from Victoria. We're not trying to do that. We're trying to say to health authorities: "Your responsibility is to manage this system." The accountability contracts are there between health authorities and the government — what they're trying to deliver. We do have some questions to ask, though. What do comprehensive and portable mean to Canadians, given the wide disparity that takes place across this country? What do we mean by reasonable access and medically necessary?

Those are questions that we have to ask ourselves. We have to ask ourselves whether it really matters to patients whether services are deliv- ered by a private facility or a public facility if, in fact, the public is paying. Those are issues that we should be asking ourselves. Those are issues that are part of what we should discuss as we move ahead. Why shouldn't we build our health care system on a foundation of sustainability? I can tell you that in health authorities across this province, they have seen significant increases in their budgets — over 20-percent increases in their budgets.

They have seen renewed opportunities for them to manage their budgets within their systems, within thei r regions of the province. We've seen an increase in improvement of services across British Columbia. That's what we've asked them to do. That does not mean there are not challenges. I can tell you again. The opposition may turn a blind ey e to this, but the fact is we've made real progress in British Columbia in the last six years. We'll continue to make progress, and it would be so much more positive if the opposition could have constructive and positive ways that they

4914 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, MAY 16, 2006 may be able to respond to that progress so that we can build on our successes as we move into the future. C. James: I'm kind of reminded of my days when my children were young. You play hide and seek, and they'd cover their eyes and think it makes them disap- pear. Ignoring the problem doesn't make it go away. Pre- tending the problem isn't there doesn't make the prob- lem go away. That's what we continue to hear from this government. The only approach that this government is using in health care is the hands-off approach.

Blame the health authority, unless the issue hits the headline, and then scramble to try and fix the issue. That's the government's health care approach. I'm going to continue to ask specific questions in this venue and every other venue, because the people of this province deserve answers. They certainly aren't hearing them today or yesterday or the day before from either the Premier or the Health Minister. Now I'd like to touch on Kamloops. Again, we've seen direct links from the doctors in Kamloops, who have talked about the bed cuts and the pressures they're seeing in emergency rooms.

In fact, we even saw the MLA for that particular area raise concerns. [1520] In the area around Kamloops there were 200 resi- dential care beds and 24 percent of long-term care beds cut, and 32 percent of acute care beds gone. That's 15 percent of the acute care beds at the hospital right now that are occupied with seniors because of the cuts that were made. As I've been try ing , in the morning and again this afternoon, to get the Premier to acknowledge the rami- fications of the decisions of his government to not build the 5,000 long-term care beds and to cut acute care beds at the same time….

Does the Premier recognize that the problem in Kamloops is directly related to the deci- sions made by his government? Hon. G. Campbell: Hon. Chair, I want to be clear to the Leader of the Opposition. I do think, in fact, these regional questions are appropriate. I think they're ap- propriate to be asked in Health estimates when we have Health officials here who ca n help respond to them in detail. In 16 hours those questions were not asked. Let me be clear about this. Let's talk about Kam- loops. Kamloops is actually one of the symbols of NDP failure. Kamloops is a symbol of NDP broken prom- ises.

The NDP, when they we re seeking office in the early '90s, said that there was going to be a new cancer centre in Kamloops. That was part of their election platform. Within weeks they said: "Oh no, never mind. Don't pay any attention to us; we didn't really mean that." There's a significant differ ence between this side of the House and that side of the House. This is what we've been able to do in Kamloops. One hundred resi- dential care beds have opened in Kamloops Seniors Village in September of 2004. An 84-residential-care- bed facility will be open this year in 2006.

Seventy-six assisted-living units will be opened at Bedford Manor. As well, 137 residential care beds and ten assisted- living units are planned to be opened in 2008. Six resi- dential care beds at Marjorie Willoughby hospice house o p e n e d i n F e b r u a r y o f ' 0 5 . Eight residential care beds are planned for the Overlander lodge in 2008. Thirty- two independent housing units in Greenfield Place opened in 2002. Residential care beds are being offered across Kamloops, and we're improving and upgrading those. On top of that, we invested in the emergency facilities in Kamloops by $28 million.

We provided a 44-bed psych unit in Kamloops to benefit the people of that particular thing. There are more ALC beds in Ponderosa Lodge. The fact is, in Kamloops…. We see it as a major centre for regional activities. We're going to continue to work with the IHA with regard to Kamloops. We're going to continue to work with physicians. This is what I think would be clear if you talk to anyone from Kam- l o o p s . T h e y w o u l d s a y t h a t w e h a v e m a d e r e a l i m - provements there. Now, I understand that the Leader of the Opposi- tion also doesn't want to re flect back on what she said.

This is what the Leader of the Opposition has said: "We shouldn't do things exactly the same way." We agree with that. "We could, in fact, provide better services for patients." We agree with that, and we've done that. "There will always be cost pressures and never enough money for health care." That's true. My question to the Leader of the Opposition is: how would she allocate the additional $3.5 billion that we put into the health services? This is how we allo- cated them: human resources, more procedures, more equipment, more capital plant, more quality services for the people of British Columbia.

The Leader of the Opposition says: "My answer is a better, more efficient public health care system achieved through innovation." We are recognized by everyone except the opposition for the innovations that have been established in British Columbia, for the pro- gress that has been made from British Columbia. We are asked on an ongoing basis to explain what we're doing in British Columbia so other jurisdictions can pick that up. Whether it's in Pharmacare, whether it's in wait-list services, whether it's in cancer services, we've been asked, and we respond. I can tell you this.

For all of the Leader of the Oppo- sition's comments that we've heard over the last little while, in British Columbia we've got great doctors, we've got great nurses, and we've got health authori- ties that are working on behalf of the communities they serve. That's why we're number one in the country. [1525] C. James: I think that's a new definition of innova- tion: to actually not keep your promise and not build 5,000 long-term care beds; to close acute care beds; and to leave the health care system in chaos. In fact, that's what we've seen as the direction of the Liberal gov- ernment.

If the Premier call s that innovation, I have a different definition of innovation, I can tell you.

TUESDAY, MAY 16, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 4915 I want to talk specifically about Ponderosa Lodge, since the Premier, in fact, ra ised the issue of Ponderosa Lodge. The lodge was actually closed in the summer of 2004, and within days the hospital in Kamloops re- ported a significant bed crunch due to the increase of seniors coming to the hospital for health care. That's a direct result of the government's decision to close beds, and it puts the pressure in the hospital, with seniors. This is a hospital that has had significant challenges with its ER, as I said earlier. They've had to cancel sur- geries.

They have bed shortages. I've toured that hospi- tal a couple of times and now see the permanent beds in the hallways in that hospital. The Premier talked this morning, when we were talking in estimates, about the fact that when they closed facilities, seniors went somewhere else. Well, we know exactly where seniors went. Seniors went to hos- pitals. They went to hallway s. They went to closets. They're in hospitals that now are overcapacity — as routine, not as exception.

My question is: does the Premier still believe that when facilities like Ponderosa Lodge were closed, those seniors went somewhere else other than hospitals? Hon. G. Campbell: First, I was pleased to hear that the Leader of the Opposition was going to define for us what innovation was, and I'd like to hear from her what she thinks innovation is. One of the interesting innovations they might dis- cover in the opposition is to get the facts right. The Ponderosa Lodge never closed completely in Kam- loops. It has been used for transition beds.

It will con- tinue to be used for transition beds until the transition is complete. But it did not close. It's interesting to hear the Leader of the Opposition go on. She called for a more efficient public health care system. As I said today, what we've been trying to do is provide a continuum of care across the system — pallia- tive care, mental health illness services, addiction ser- vices, acute care beds. There' s been an increase in the number of beds in the province under health services of 5 percent. We're trying to distribute those appropriately.

We're investing in new facilities in Kamloops, as I just read. I'd be glad to read it out again if the opposi- tion leader would like to hear it: 32 housing units in Greenfield Place in 2002; 100 residential care beds, Kamloops Seniors Village, and 84 residential care beds are going to be opened by 2006; 76 assisted-living units have opened in Bedford Manner. I'd invite the opposition le ader to go and talk with those folks. If they talk with them, they'll find out that we've actually improved the quality of care and the quality of services they receive. That's what we set out to do.

So Ponderosa Lodge has been used for transition services. The fact is that you can't run all health care from Victoria. We saw what happened when the NDP tried to do that. We lost nu rses. We lost doctors. We had communities saying they couldn't get specialists. We had communities saying that the NDP government wasn't living up to its commitment. I can tell you this. When we committed the 44-bed psych ward, we delivered on the 44-bed psych ward. When we committed on telehealth, we delivered on telehealth into Kamloops.

When we committed to im- prove the investments in emergency, we delivered on those investments in emergency. I think the actual challenge that we face here is that we do have to set goals. We do have to set standards. We do that in Victoria. We have accountability con- tracts that are signed between the Health Ministry and the health authorities. We audit those contracts. There are times when things don' t work the way they're sup- posed to. We recognize that. We try and remedy that as quickly as we possibly can. But I do know this. There are more procedures tak- ing place in British Columbia now.

There is more ac- cess in British Columbia now in the Interior Health Authority, in the Coastal Health Authority and the Vancouver Island Health Au thority. There are more patients who are given better care today than there were just five or six years ag o. That's a tribute, frankly, to the people in the authorities and in the hospitals and in our health care facilities that are providing services to patients across British Columbia. C. James: I think it's unfortunate.

It's the seniors and the hospitals and the people who provide health care who have been suffering because the government, in fact, didn't follow through on their commitment to build 5,000 long-term care beds. [1530] The Premier likes to list the commitments that he followed through on.

That's a key commitment that he made and that his government made to the seniors of British Columbia and to the people who work in the health care field, who've had to spend the last five years with the government telling them that everything was fine in health care when they've seen the reality every single day, when they've tried to tell the gov- ernment the reality every single day, and when they've been completely ignored by this government. I'm glad the Premier raised the issue of accountabil- ity. That's the next issue I want to move on to, but I want to touch on it related to health care for a moment.

In fact, what this government has done in their health care plan is move to having unaccountable health au- thorities who have not involved communities in deci- sions or in planning and whom the government then uses as an opportunity to blame someone else instead of taking responsibility for their own actions.

We've seen it in the issue, for example, of the Minis- try of Children and Families, where the government for years refused to be accountable for the decisions that they made — which caused difficulty for children and families at risk in this province for five years — until we saw Judge Hughes come forward with the report. The government could no longer ignore the fact that they caused the chaos we've seen. It's exactly the same kind of issue in health care today, where the government refuses to acknowledge that they made the decision not to build the long-term

4916 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, MAY 16, 2006 care beds, that they made the decision to close down long-term care facilities, and that they made the deci- sion to close acute care beds, which has caused the chaos that we see today. That's not accountability, and that's certainly not health planning. Moving on to the issue of accountability. I think this is an important place for us to have a conversation with the Premier and to ta lk about openness and ac- countability under this government.

We've seen, under this government, the Premier make a number of deci- sions that have, in fact, decreased accountability and transparency and have prom oted secrecy over open- ness. I'll just give some exampl es. The cuts to the Auditor General. The cuts to the Ombudsman. The cuts to the freedom-of-information office. The outright elimination of other independent watchd ogs, such as the Human Rights Commission and the Children's Commission. Bill 75, the Significant Projec ts Streamlining Act, which allowed the government to override municipalities. Exemption of B.C. Ferries from FOI.

The government's refusal to debate their pre- election budget. There are many other examples that we'll get into talking about over the next couple of hours. Of course, as we've seen in this session, the government has attempted to re- strict public access to information through changes to the Public Inquiry Act and FOI. I'm not going to talk about bills that are in front of this House, but I would like to discuss aspects of recent legislation that have decreased transparency and to also canvass the issue of open government a little bit more.

Here are just a couple of quotes to start off, since the Premier tends to forget his words from the past, which show the Premier's direction around openness and transparency when he was in opposition. This is a Premier who said: "When government does its business behind closed doors, people will in- variably believe the government has something to hide. Secrecy feeds distrust and dishonesty. Openness builds trust and integrity." Here's one more quote from the then opposition leader. "A direct link between democracy, open gov- ernment and freedom of information.

The fundamental principle must be this." The then opposition leader said: "Government information belongs to the people, not to government. This means, among other things, that all citizens must have timely, effective and affordable access to the documents which governments make and keep. Governments should facilitate access, not obstruct it." So given those comments and given many other comments that the Premier has made about open gov- ernment, about transparen t government, I would like to ask the Premier a very simple question.

What actions does he believe his governme nt has made that in fact reduce openness and transparency? [1535] Hon. G. Campbell: I'm going to start with some of the

preamble to that question. The Leader of the Oppo- sition wonders what this government has done for sen- iors and what we haven't done. Again, I would point out that we have invested over a billion dollars over the last five years in improving the quality of facilities. The last thing I had expected when we were elected in 2001 was that the previous government, in spite of its incompetence, in spite of its mismanagement, would have allowed our seniors facilities to deteriorate to the level that they did. The Leader of the Opposition may want to run from that record, but it was her record.

She ran on that record, and she said that she accepted it and embraced it and encouraged British Columbians to go forward with that. We did a different approach. We said we were go- ing to go forward. We were going to provide for the improvements in those faci lities. We were going to make sure that people could live in quality care. We'd rehabilitate if necessary. We'd relocate if it was neces- sary. We'd build new units. We are doing that, and we've been very clear with that. Beyond that, we are modernizing residential care beds and assisted-living units.

There are 2,700 new units that will be in place by December of 2006. We have expanded Independent Living B.C. — 3,500 hous- ing units by December of '06. We have expanded home support programs, which includes daily living, meals and day care. We have reduced average wait times for residential care from 365 days in the 1990s to 90 days. MSP has been reduced for 290,000 British Columbians. Pharmacare has been reduced for 280,000 British Colum- bians. Seniors across British Columbia who are on a fixed income know that their income taxes have been dramati- cally reduced, to zero if they happen to have $15,000 a year.

If it's just less than that, they're still the lowest in- come taxes in Canada that we are providing to seniors. We will obviously be held to account by the elec- torate, and we look forward to that. We look forward to a real debate about who has delivered on health care and who did not. As we move ahead, I think it's also important that we look at the record in terms of accountability of this government. Currently we have one of the strongest freedom-of-information acts in the country. It includes a commission that's independently appointed by an all- party committee.

There are more bodies that are in- cluded in that act than in any other Canadian jurisdic- tion. That is an important step in terms of openness, and I'm proud that this government did that. We've increased the gro ss budget for the Auditor General by over 30 percent since the year 2000. We have a procurement governance office that's right there under the comptroller general. We've depoliticized the appointment process. There is a Merit Commissioner in place. There is now a new openness for Crown corpo- rations, whether it's B.C. Hydro or B.C. Ferries or ICBC. We introduced the Lobbyis ts Registration Act.

We are constantly in keeping with the FOI legislation that's been in place. We're proud of those initiatives. In terms of the Legislature, we expanded our ques- tion period to 30 minutes. Much to the opposition's chagrin, we expanded it to 30 minutes. Specifically to the issue of freedom of information, the only changes that have been made have been posi-

TUESDAY, MAY 16, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 4917 tive improvements, including adding approximately 50 public bodies to the act, including the Forest Practices Board and the provincial Agricultural Land Commis- sion. It now covers more public bodies than any juris- diction in Canada. We've simplified the process for adding public bod- ies. We've provided for privacy impact assessments. We've provided and extended privacy protection to include personal informatio n. We've brought together a review by an all-party committee which takes place every six years.

There's greater flexibility for the officer to actually manage his affairs, to say: "This is not a request," or "I will pursue these other requests because they're more important." I think that if you go across the country, you would have difficulty finding a province that had been more open than the province of British Columbia. C. James: I find it interesting th at some of the areas that the Premier referred to in fact were our suggestions to the Premier, including the 30-minute question period to make government more open and transparent. Let's look at a specific example that the government put forward.

That is

section 9 of the miscellaneous bill that was passed in the House yesterday. This bill was passed, and the government's intent was to change the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act. The Premier…. [1540] The Chair: Member. Just a reminder that only the administrative action of a department is open to debate so that only matters involving the administrative actions of a department are to be discussed in Committee of Supply. Matters involving legislation cannot be dis- cussed in Committee of Supply. That has been the prac- tice of this chamber. C. James: Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'll continue on, then, to ask the Prem ier about changes the gov- ernment has looked at for freedom of information over this past year. Could the Premier explain some of those changes that the government proposed to make this year to freedom of information, and how they make sure that government is more open and transparent? Hon. G. Campbell: As the Leader of the Opposi- tion knows, the estimates fo r the ministry responsible for freedom of information are yet to be canvassed. I would recommend all of those questions go to that estimates period.

Let me just say that the full policy discussions can take place during those estimates if the Leader of the Opposition would like to do that — the Ministry of Labour and Citizens' Services. Let me go back. What we have done as a govern- ment is expand the reach of information and privacy. It lays out rules for how documents should be re- turned. We've closely done this in consultation with the freedom-of-information and protection-of-privacy commissioner. We have been very clear that we are open to recommendations from that independent offi- cer of the Legislature.

He can report through to a standing committee, and they can make recommenda- tions to the House. I think the thrust the government has had has been exactly what I outlined before. I think it's important to note that when I did outline it, I said there will always be requests for more. That's good, and that's healthy in a democratic society. We're glad to hear those ideas. They will be properly processed through the minister. I think the policy is to be open and accountable.

When we're recognized by the Auditor General of Canada for the appointment process that's been estab- lished by our government, that 's good news for British Columbians. When we have an Auditor General who recognizes that we are the only jurisdiction in the coun- try that actually keeps our books in terms of generally accepted accounting principles, that is good news for British Columbians. We have said quite clearl y that we want to inform British Columbians about what's taking place. There are quarterly reports. They see what's taking place. There are public accounts. They se e what's taking place.

We o p e n u p o u r g o v e r n m e n t t o m a k e s u r e t h a t p e o p l e d o see what's taking place, so they can offer suggestions on how we can move ahead. Our strategic plan is very clear in terms of our vi- sion and core values. We want to be known as a fiscally responsible jurisdiction. We want to be recognized for the accountability that we hold ourselves to and that citizens can hold us to. We want to be recognized as a government of integrity that deals with citizens openly and directly, and we will continue to pursue that.

The details of the question s the opposition leader is suggesting right now, though, are properly and cor- rectly pursued under the estimates of the Minister of Labour and Citizens' Services. C. James: I'm sorry for ruining the Premier's day by asking health care questions that he didn't want to an- swer and wanted asked to the Health Minister. Now he doesn't want to answer qu estions around freedom of information and openness. I'm going to continue ask- ing those questions regardless, because the Premier has stated that one of his goals is to be the most open and transparent government ever .

Therefore, it seems rea- sonable to ask those questions of the Premier directly. Let's talk about changes that the government has made over the history of their five years. In 2002 the government announced it was cutting the budget of the FOI office by 35 percent for three years running, 2002 to 2005, a decision that had a severe impact on the workings of this office, including the appeal process. Does the Premier think this decision helped openness and transparency? Hon. G. Campbell: The Leader of the Opposition wants to go back, so let's go back. Let's go back to what her party did — what the NDP did.

Let's look back at how her party actually treated the people of British Columbia.

4918 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, MAY 16, 2006 [1545] The fudge-it budget now is known as a case study across the country for misleading citizens. That was the NDP. We brought in the Budget Accountability Act. We have accountability for ministers. We have service plans now. There were never service plans before this government came forward. You can look at a three- year plan for any ministry of this government.

In fact, if the NDP was doing some of its homework occasionally, they could actually use those plans to help any government move forward — to look for good and positive suggestions that could be used to enhance the plans and look ah e a d . I f w e l o o k a t a c - countability for ministers, I can tell you right now that if we had ministers in the NDP, they wouldn't be get- ting any salary whatsoever for the way they misman- aged this government.

As we look ahead in the province of British Columbia and as we look at the strategic plans we have put in place, w e h a v e o p e n e d u p o u r g o v e r n m e n t i n a w a y t h a t h a s never been opened up before. In education, for the first time ever, we're providing people with class-size informa- tion so they can make their choices. They can see what's taking place in the province. That's open government. We're going to continue that process. We're going to continue including citizens.

Even the Auditor Gen- eral has sai d t o u s that this i s a ju risdi ction that other jurisdictions should be emulating because of the way we're keeping our books, because of the way we're doing things. We have done an exceptional job. This government has done an exceptional job, as have the public servants, in opening up this process — the ideas of government — to the people of British Columbia so they can share with us in bu ilding an even more pros- perous future for this province. C. James: A straightforward question: did the cuts that the Premier made between 2002 and 2005 impact openness and transparency?

Hon. G. Campbell: The fact of the matter is that we inherited a $4.4 billion deficit. We inherited a health care system in disarray. We inherited an education system that was closing parents out of the system, where they actually said to parents: "You're not al- lowed to volunteer in the school." What we said, and what we ran on, was that we were going to bring in a balanced budget by our third complete budget. I'm proud to say we were able to do that. As we did that, we opened up government in Brit- ish Columbia.

As we did that, we opened up our books in British Columbia so people knew that there were actually books they could rely on. You don't get four credit upgrades in the province without hard work and without being open. That is a measure of openness in British Columbia. When the Auditor General says that we have set the standard that others should follow, that is a meas- ure of openness in British Columbia. That's an impor- tant measure that everyone in this province should take pride in. The Chair: I would like to remind the member that we are debating the estimates of the 2006-2007 budget. C.

James: C o n t i n u i n g o n w i t h d e c i s i o n s m a d e b y the Premier, which are direct decisions related to the Premier's responsibility — therefore, the Premier's of- fice. These are questions that have to do with openness and accountability. It is a key part, a key platform of this government. Therefore, I would expect these are pretty basic questions that should be answered by the Premier. We didn't get an an swer to the last question, so I'm going to try another specific change made by the government to the FOI Act in 2002.

It gave cabinet broad discretionary power to designate any work done by committees that include a cabinet minister to be immune from any access. The Chair: Member, again, we are in the 2006-2007 budget year. The question sh ould be relevant to the budget that's before us. C. James: Continuing on. Were decisions that the Premier made…? The Chair: Member, if you could just explain how that is relevant to the estimates at hand today. C. James: I can. We didn't see an increase in the freedom-of-information budget in this year.

That's an issue when you take a look at past history of this gov- ernment around freedom of information and past history where the budget has been decreased by the government. You would expect that the government, perhaps, would look at increasing th e budget and putting back some of those resources that were taken out — to in- crease openness and transparency. You would expect, perhaps, the government would take a look at some of the past history issues and make changes this year to increase openness and accountability.

My question to the Prem ier is: did he think there were any changes that needed to be made to the free- dom of information, based on past decisions of his government, which would have improved openness and transparency this year? [1550] Hon. G. Campbell: There's no question that the full policy discussion and budget debate is entirely the purpose of the upcoming Labour and Citizens' Services discussions, but as I've said to the Leader of the Oppo- sition earlier, the…. Interjection. Hon. G. Campbell: Excuse me, hon. Chair. The Chair: Continue, Mr. Premier. Hon. G.

Campbell: I'm not going to continue until the member decides that he's going to take his place.

TUESDAY, MAY 16, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 4919 The actions this government have taken are very clear. We've increased the budget since 2001-2002. We are going to continue to work with the Information and P r i v a c y C o m m i s s i o n e r . A s w e d o t h a t , I a m s u r e w e will continue to build on our record of being the most open and accountable government in Canada. C. James: My question: did the Premier ever take a look at including some of the key bodies that they've excluded over the last number of years? I'll start one at a time. B.C. Ferries.

Did the Premier ever consider, this year, including B.C. Ferries in free- dom of information? Hon. G. Campbell: We decided to follow the same course that was plotted earlier with regard to B.C. Fer- ries. It is an independent ag ency. It relies on private sector resources. B.C. Ferries, we believe, is more accountable and more open now than it has ever been before. There is a Ferry commissioner. There is an independent board. There are strict public disc losure requirements. There's an independent audit. There' s a requirement for public hearings for B.C. Ferries up and down the coast.

Transport Canada regulates all of the safety re- quirements. Frankly, Transport Canada regulates B.C. Ferries, who are subject to federal FOI legislation. So we made the decision that B.C. Ferries would be treated very similarly to B.C. Rail. We believe it is, frankly, a more open and mo re public process than it has ever been in the history of the organization. C. James: Did the Premier ever consider having VANOC subject to FOI? Hon. G. Campbell: VANOC is not a provincial organization. Again, I think it's important for the oppo- sition to spend some time to see how these structures are created.

VANOC is a partnership between the Canadian Olympic Committee, the federal government, the pro- vincial government, the city of Vancouver and the city of Whistler. Clearly, once again, VANOC is independ- ently audited. Those records are available for people. Since it is not a member of British Columbia's entity, it is not included. C. James: A n o t h e r s p e c i f i c e x a m p l e . I w a n t t o a s k the Premier whether, this year, he has considered mak- ing any changes to….

B.C. is the only known jurisdic- tion in Canada where the names of individual request- ers are actually provided to communications aides for political purposes as a matter of routine. This is a new policy that was implemented by the government where so-called troublesome requesters are identified by name at the top of the documents provided to ministers. The responses to these request- ers — the media, the opposition, stakeholder groups — are routinely delayed by this government. This prac- tice, in fact, led to an investigation by the commis- sioner.

I'd like the Premier to please explain to us how this policy of his governme nt actually fits with the views about being open and transparent? Hon. G. Campbell: It's interesting, again, for me that the Leader of the Opposition doesn't, I guess, rec- ognize what the common practice has been, including under the previous NDP government. What we use today with regard to disclosures is the same practice that was used previously. It's no different today than it was before. It's not a practice that we intend to use or that we do use regularly. [1555] In fact, under

section 33 of the act, confirmed in the commissioner's ruling of 1996, individuals representing public bodies may have their names shared with gov- ernment staff when appropri ate. The practice is not used very regularly. It is not a common practice in government, and it is not a violation of freedom-of- information and privacy protection. C. James: If the practice is not used, if the Premier doesn't feel it's important, will the Premier agree, then, that he's going to withdraw that act and practice? Hon. G.

Campbell: There is always an opportunity for recommendations to come forward from the oppo- sition, either to the standing committee in the House or to the minister responsible. But again, let's be clear. These are initiatives that ha ve been undertaken. It's part of the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act. The opposition just doesn't want to hear that in British Columbia we are more open than virtually any other jurisdiction in country. That's the fact; that's the case. We are more accountable than any other.

We have a very good and positive working relationship with the freedom-of-information and privacy commissioner. We're going to continue to build on that. We're going to continue to take recommendations, and as we can improve the act, as we move forward, we'll do it. But we'll do it deliberately. We'll do it in consultation with all members of the House, as we've d o n e i n t h e p a s t . A s w e d o t h a t , w e ' l l c o n t i n u e t o make significant progress and continue to lead the country. C.

James: In fact, recommendations had been made, including by the government's own committee, that had been completely ignored by this government. It's quite reasonable to actually ask these questions to the Premier, since he has ignored recommendations by his own committee, including ones as recently as 2004. Let's take a look at the current practice. The Premier talks about being open and transpar

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H0516pm-04
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H0516pm 04
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	44d1e25616d9ed144adf724cf103c5e01ff87dc4

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