Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick Oral Questions Original by Hansard Office Translation by Debates Translation 1 October 31, 2023 CONTENTS HOMELESS SHELTERS Ms. Holt Hon. Ms. Green Ms. Holt Hon. Ms. Green Ms. Holt Hon. Ms. Green Ms. Holt Hon. Ms. Green Ms. Holt Hon. Ms. Green Ms. Holt Hon. Ms. Green MENTAL HEALTH Mr. Gauvin Hon. S. Wilson Mr. Gauvin Hon. Ms. Green

Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick Oral Questions Original by Hansard Office Translation by Debates Translation 2 HOMELESSNESS Mr. McKee Hon. Mr. Austin Mr. McKee Hon. Mr. Higgs Mr. McKee Hon. Mr. Fitch MIDWIFERY Ms. Mitton Hon. Mr. Fitch Ms. Mitton Hon. Mr. Fitch EDUCATION Ms. Landry Hon. Ms. Dunn Ms. Landry L’hon. M. Hogan MENTAL HEALTH Ms. Holt Hon. S. Wilson

Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick Oral Questions Original by Hansard Office Translation by Debates Translation 3 [Original] HOMELESS SHELTERS Ms. Holt (Bathurst East—Nepisiguit—Saint-Isidore, Leader of the Official Opposition, L): Mr. Speaker, I would like to start by quoting the former minister, who stated in this House one year ago that in almost every city in this province, we are seeing a very visible homeless population, which has grown… This is a very important… priority for this government. She committed her support to emergency shelters and to taking rapid action to reduce homelessness.

We appreciated her sincerity and her prioritization of the issue. One year later, the situation is worse today. There are more people experiencing homelessness in New Brunswick than ever before. [Translation] Shelters and community assistance organizations working to house homeless people are looking to the government to take action. [Original] The former minister announced $8 million in support of emergency shelters—$2 million for last year and unknown amounts for this year and next.

Could the current minister account to this House for how the funds were spent last year, what amount has been allocated for this year, and how it will be spent? Hon. Ms. Green (Fredericton North, Minister of Social Development; Minister responsible for the Economic and Social Inclusion Corporation; Minister responsible for the New Brunswick Housing Corporation, PC): Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I am glad that you asked this question. It is a very timely one, considering the weather that we had yesterday.

I can assure you that the Department of Social Development is working very closely with our three municipalities, Fredericton, Moncton, and Saint John, to find locations for the out-of-the-cold shelters for the winter and also a hub for each of those communities. I learned a lesson very early on while serving as minister. You should never speak in public or to a reporter unless you have spoken with all the stakeholders in a region about the issue that you are dealing with. I have had meetings in Fredericton and Moncton talking to stakeholders about the services that we need in our hubs in those cities.

I have a meeting set up with Saint John next week to have the same discussion about what services need to be in these out-of-the-cold shelters. I will be happy to report back after I have had that discussion, but I am not having it in the House until I talk to the stakeholders in Saint John.

Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick Oral Questions Original by Hansard Office Translation by Debates Translation 4 Ms. Holt (Bathurst East—Nepisiguit—Saint-Isidore, Leader of the Official Opposition, L): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Given that this is something that this House has certainly been aware of for more than a year and something that this government committed to as a priority more than a year ago, I am wondering whether the minister could tell us why this work is happening now and why it did not happen months ago. We knew that the cold was coming. This was predictable.

From my understanding, a commitment was made to open out-of-the-cold shelters for October 1. Here we are on October 31, and contracts are just getting ordered and negotiated. It was cold yesterday. It was below freezing and will be so again tonight. So could the minister let us know why there is a delay? Why do we find ourselves a month behind schedule, and how can she reassure us that delays like this will not continue in the future? Hon. Ms.

Green (Fredericton North, Minister of Social Development; Minister responsible for the Economic and Social Inclusion Corporation; Minister responsible for the New Brunswick Housing Corporation, PC): Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. This work has been ongoing for several months. It started early this summer. We started working with our team and with the municipalities, looking at what the needs in the municipalities were and also looking to identify spaces for these out-of-the-cold shelters.

The next step is meeting with all the stakeholders and understanding what support services need to be in these hubs, because these are not just shelters, Mr. Speaker. These are actually service hubs. We will have inreach teams and outreach teams in each city. The outreach teams will be servicing areas greater than just the central urban areas that they are within. They will be going out into the rural areas as well, where we also have homeless populations. All the departments that are on board are going to be providing services within these shelters to the individuals who will be accessing them.

We are working through all those pieces right now, but it started this summer, Mr. Speaker. Ms. Holt (Bathurst East—Nepisiguit—Saint-Isidore, Leader of the Official Opposition, L): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate that it started this summer. We are hearing from municipalities that are expressing frustration at the pace of the work and the fact that we find ourselves here, past the time when it was expected to be done, with snow on the ground, freezing temperatures, and no results for the New Brunswickers who are out in the cold. More than 250 of them slept out in the cold last night.

So I would appreciate understanding, from the minister, why there was a delay. Was there an intent for it to be done now? We understood that a contract was going to be awarded on October 1. What has held it up? Hon. Ms. Green (Fredericton North, Minister of Social Development; Minister responsible for the Economic and Social Inclusion Corporation; Minister responsible for the New Brunswick Housing Corporation, PC): Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I think that you can appreciate that this is a very complicated situation. As I said, we have been working on

Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick Oral Questions Original by Hansard Office Translation by Debates Translation 5 it since this summer. Some of the spaces did not exist in the form that we currently need them in for these out-of-the-cold hubs that we are creating. The work started this summer. Some of it is completed, and the rest of it is progressing right now. The intent was to have these hubs open sometime between mid-October and mid-November, so we are still within that time frame.

According to the last reports that I had, which were quite recent, they will all be opening within the next few weeks so that we can serve that population. The snow that we had last night, of course, was very unfortunate. It was unexpected. We have not had snow before Halloween in a very long time. I cannot remember that happening since I was a child. Rest assured that the team at Social Development and our partners at the Department of Health, the Department of Post-Secondary Education, Training and Labour, and all the different departments are working hard towards getting this in place. Ms.

Holt (Bathurst East—Nepisiguit—Saint-Isidore, Leader of the Official Opposition, L): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to be reassured, but it is difficult when this could have been worked on and done by now. Goals were set and missed, and that is a hallmark of this government. This is a problem that cannot wait, and we need to see and understand why it has been delayed past the time when it was expected. We wanted operations for an out-of- the-cold shelter in Moncton by October 1. It is October 31, and the contract has not even landed for the organization. Organizations are upset.

Municipalities are upset, New Brunswickers are cold and upset, and we are not seeing urgency nor results from this government. Can the minister commit to when—not sometime in the next few weeks—these shelters will be open to serve New Brunswickers? Hon. Ms. Green (Fredericton North, Minister of Social Development; Minister responsible for the Economic and Social Inclusion Corporation; Minister responsible for the New Brunswick Housing Corporation, PC): Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I will publicly set the dates. I am not going to do it in the House right now.

I need to go back and consult with staff on the dates that these will be open. But I have said that we have not had our final stakeholder meeting in Saint John yet, and I need to have that completed before I take the next step with Saint John. It is interesting that you are discussing how upset the municipalities are, because we have had an incredible relationship with the municipalities. Each one is on board and working with us, first, to find the location, and second, to begin looking at how we will staff and populate those homelessness hubs and what kind of services need to be provided there.

The municipalities have been involved in every step along the way. They have reached out over and over again, asking questions, and I have answered every question. In fact, they have been talking about how impressed they are with our government and our stakeholder engagement.

Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick Oral Questions Original by Hansard Office Translation by Debates Translation 6 Ms. Holt (Bathurst East—Nepisiguit—Saint-Isidore, Leader of the Official Opposition, L): I can tell you, Mr. Speaker, that the municipalities we have spoken to as recently as last Friday in the Cities of New Brunswick Association are very frustrated with the slow pace that the government has had on this file. One specific example is a homelessness strategy. We are having stakeholder meetings. A strategy was talked about a year ago in this House.

In August the minister said, Well, I might do it in the fall, but we need to consult with stakeholders. Here we are. The consultations continue because they have not been addressed with the urgency that this time-sensitive issue demands. I am going to go back to my original question since it was not answered. We have an $8- million budget put aside for this and $2 million from last year. We do not know whether that was spent in full. There is maybe $1.6 million that can be accounted for. Without a strategy on the table, how much are you going to invest in homelessness this year? Hon. Ms.

Green (Fredericton North, Minister of Social Development; Minister responsible for the Economic and Social Inclusion Corporation; Minister responsible for the New Brunswick Housing Corporation, PC): Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I am very interested to know who within the municipalities are expressing concern. I would like to reach out to them and have a discussion around what we can do to provide them with more information.

Obviously, if they are speaking with the Leader of the Opposition, I would like to know what they are saying so that I can work with them to address the issues that they are concerned about. It is interesting because I have built these relationships with our municipalities where we talk back and forth, sometimes daily or more than once per day, about the issues around homelessness. Mr. Speaker, I would like to say that we take the homelessness issue incredibly seriously. We are working with municipalities and having incredibly serious discussions.

The work that we are doing and the commitment that this government has made to address the homelessness issue is unbelievable, and so is the work that we have done over the past two years. We are moving ahead, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker (Hon. Bill Oliver): Thank you, minister. Ms. Holt (Bathurst East—Nepisiguit—Saint-Isidore, Leader of the Official Opposition, L): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I did not hear the figure that I was looking for. I assume that means that there is no budget, like there is no strategy, and like there is no urgency to address this file the way that it needs to be addressed.

I would encourage the minister to test her relationships with the municipalities because it seems as though what they are telling us and what they are experiencing on the ground with partner organizations is not lining up with the wonderful words that she has just shared with us. I appreciate the wonderful words, but New Brunswickers need to see action.

Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick Oral Questions Original by Hansard Office Translation by Debates Translation 7 I want to take the example of the Salvus Clinic. This is an organization in Moncton that serves people who are experiencing homelessness. It serves as the address for more than 250 individuals, and it provides primary care, housing supports, navigation services, and case management, things that the minister just talked about. These are critical services that more than 4 000 New Brunswickers are missing right now.

Salvus partners with Vitalité, Horizon, and Social Development, but right now it is closed. What is this government doing to support the people that Salvus serves? Hon. Ms. Green (Fredericton North, Minister of Social Development; Minister responsible for the Economic and Social Inclusion Corporation; Minister responsible for the New Brunswick Housing Corporation, PC): Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. The Salvus Clinic is very important in the Moncton region, and we acknowledge that.

With no permanent location, the situation that it is finding itself in is very concerning, not only to the Department of Social Development but also to the Department of Health. We are working very closely with its staff to identify a new location. Mr. Speaker, I would also like to say that its mobile operations continue to run. They are continuing on through this challenging experience. I can also state that our team at the Department of Social Development is working with the Department of Health and looking at outside-the-box solutions to find a location for it to put its clinic. We are committed to that.

We are committed to working together to find a solution. We acknowledge how important the services that Salvus provide are to a very vulnerable population here in New Brunswick. We will ensure that it finds a new location to have its clinic. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. [Translation] MENTAL HEALTH Mr. Gauvin (Shediac Bay-Dieppe, L): Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. A few years ago here in the House, all members present unanimously voted in favour of creating a mental health advocate position.

It had been decided that that would be the best way to deal with a number of problems in New Brunswick, including homelessness. For those who don’t know, a mental health advocate would have a file on each of these people. They could have dealt with the files for each of them. However, the government chose not to move forward, even though all members voted in favour of creating the position. Are you prepared to revisit your strategy and create a mental health advocate position? This advocate would have a file for each of these people so that these issues that arise every fall could be avoided.

It is becoming a bit much. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick Oral Questions Original by Hansard Office Translation by Debates Translation 8 [Original] Hon. S. Wilson (Moncton Southwest, Minister responsible for Women’s Equality; Minister responsible for Addictions and Mental Health Services, PC): Thank you very much for that question. Mr. Speaker, there is a lot of work going on in the departments. There is the one- at-a-time therapy, the single session therapy, which has been really effective in all the communities.

There is Bridge the gapp, an addiction and mental health website that can help New Brunswickers during times of heightened stress. We also now have the new mental health helpline. There is a lot of work that is being done. We will continue to work with the department to address the needs of New Brunswickers. Mental health is an issue in New Brunswick, and we will continue to do the work. [Translation] Mr. Gauvin (Shediac Bay-Dieppe, L): Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. My second question is about the same file. Our leader just mentioned $8 million, which is the amount that was announced last year for this file.

One of the things that was criticized at the time was this: It is fine to make funding announcements, but the people who are concerned about this situation want to know where the funds will be allocated. I know the minister does not want to reveal details, since we are in a period when things could be done. Could she now give us specific details about the way the money will be invested? Last year, when the $8 million was announced, someone said that none of it was being allocated to security. People do not want to go to shelters if there is no security, since their only possessions are the coats they are wearing.

So, Madam Minister, to put people's minds at ease, since there is snow on the ground now, could you please, without mentioning dates—because we do not want to talk about that right now—reassure people and give us details about what is going to happen when you put everything in place? Thank you very much. [Original] Hon. Ms. Green (Fredericton North, Minister of Social Development; Minister responsible for the Economic and Social Inclusion Corporation; Minister responsible for the New Brunswick Housing Corporation, PC): Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Yes, I can talk about more details without talking specifically about each individual shelter or hub. We are calling them homelessness hubs. Each one is getting an individual name, named by the community. I will say that part of our responsibility as the Department of Social Development is having engagement and a relationship not only with the communities

Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick Oral Questions Original by Hansard Office Translation by Debates Translation 9 themselves—so, the municipalities—but also with the neighbours around where these facilities will be located. Mr. Speaker, there are security concerns associated with this population. But that is why we have an all-of-government approach to our solutions within our communities. Justice and Public Safety is involved in the planning for these hubs. The Department of Health and Addiction and Mental Health are involved in the planning for these hubs.

Social Development might be taking the lead on this, but there are individual departments and responsibilities. We are all working together to solve this issue. Security is definitely being developed for these facilities. Mr. Speaker (Hon. Bill Oliver): Thank you, minister. [Translation] HOMELESSNESS Mr. McKee (Moncton Centre, L): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Clearly, this government is failing to provide New Brunswickers with essential mental health services for which there is a dire need, especially with regard to the growing homelessness crisis.

Here in the House, I have constantly advocated for a Mental Health Court in other regions in the province. Even though former Minister of Health signed a letter of commitment, no resources were allocated to this project. So, here is what I want to know: What is this government’s strategy? I know the Minister of Public Safety is talking about legislation on forced treatment, but then we are told there are no resources to establish a Mental Health Court in other regions of the province. So, I still doubt the priorities of this government, which favours punishment over treatment and rehabilitation.

Can the government tell us what its priority is with regard to mental health services and the homelessness crisis in the province? [Original] Hon. Mr. Austin (Fredericton-Grand Lake, Minister of Public Safety, PC): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. You know, when we talk about mental health and addictions and some of the crime that is associated with that, we understand that it is a holistic approach that is needed. That is why we are increasing the enforcement side of it, but we are not doing it in a vacuum. We know that Social Development plays a major

part in that. That is why we now have a Minister responsible for Addictions and Mental Health Services. That is why we now have a Minister responsible for the New Brunswick Housing Corporation. That is why the Minister of Health is also working very hard to ensure that there is a holistic approach to how we deal with the issues of crime in New Brunswick. But I can tell you what we are not going to do. We are not going to turn a blind eye to crime in New Brunswick. We are not going to turn a blind eye to those who struggle with mental

Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick Oral Questions Original by Hansard Office Translation by Debates Translation 10 health and addictions. As a government, we are going to have that holistic approach to ensure that New Brunswickers are safe and that they feel that they can be safe in this province. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. McKee (Moncton Centre, L): Mr. Speaker, they are turning a blind eye to those New Brunswickers who are struggling. We know that one in five Canadians experience mental illness each year. Many must wait for a long time to get the services that they need.

It is even higher among the vulnerable populations. So, if this government continues to take this approach of prisons and jails over treatment and rehabilitation, our homelessness crisis is only going to get worse. I would like to know about a recent report in which the Canadian Institute for Health Information stated that “half of Canadians wait less than a month for ongoing counselling services in the community”. This is important because getting the treatment will reduce pressures on the ER system. But our province is not meeting the threshold of other provinces. In British Columbia, the wait time is 15 days.

In Saskatchewan, it is 12 days. In Manitoba, it is 10 days. In Nova Scotia, it takes 22 days to get community counselling services. In New Brunswick, it is 62 days. Why is there such a long wait time in New Brunswick? Hon. Mr. Higgs (Quispamsis, Premier, Minister responsible for Intergovernmental Affairs, PC): Mr. Speaker, as the Minister of Public Safety said, there is a holistic approach here on how we manage and deal with issues in the province. Yes, crime is one of them, and incarceration is one of them. The really important way is to get a long-term recovery program that really works. Mr.

Speaker, I cannot reference the page, but if you have read the throne speech, you have seen that it talks about a mental health and addiction recovery centre. It is not an overnight centre, it is not a place where you drop in for a week. It may take months, it may take weeks, but it will be for a term that allows people to get a recovery program in place and then move into society. Even in the jail system today, there is an opportunity where treatment programs are being offered. This could be a continuum of treatment. Mr.

Speaker, it will give judges the opportunity actually to say, Well, I could send you to jail, or I could send you to a recovery centre. You have a choice. The response could be, I would like to get help, Your Honour. I really want to get help. That is where we are trying to go with this because we believe that recovery is the answer. Whether it be mental health or addiction, we can help. Mr. McKee (Moncton Centre, L): Mr. Speaker, it is news to me that they are favouring treatment over building jails. We know that they even fudged numbers in the past to give themselves a mandate to build a new jail.

They said that the numbers warranted a new jail, but they were counting people who were on house arrest, in their homes, as being

Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick Oral Questions Original by Hansard Office Translation by Debates Translation 11 incarcerated and as a reason the government needs to build new jails. Those are proven facts, Mr. Speaker. They are just paying lip service to New Brunswickers. They made vague commitments in the speech from the throne and in the budget speech last March by saying that they were exploring the creation of more treatment beds or that they had positions that were funded in our ERs for health care professionals. But in reality, this is only lip service.

In my next question, I want to know about these funded positions in the ERs. How many of them are actually filled and helping New Brunswickers—not just funded? Hon. Mr. Fitch (Riverview, Minister of Health, PC): Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I am quite appalled by the language that the member opposite is using about fudged numbers. I think that should be a point of order. If fudging numbers is okay, let’s talk about what the Liberals were saying the other day.

The other day, they talked about RSV vaccinations, and in question period, the leader from Bathurst East—Nepisiguit—Saint-Isidore said that it—meaning the vaccination—is being distributed and paid for in other provinces in Canada. That is not the fact that I had, so I checked. I checked with Prince Edward Island, which I think was mentioned. And, Mr. Speaker, the word that came back to me was: Just like 9 out of 10 provinces, we are waiting for the NACI, the National Advisory Committee on Immunization, response to talk about the cost effectiveness of vaccinations. So, Mr.

Speaker, I think that it would behoove the House to ask the member opposite to retract that statement or to ask the Leader of the Opposition to apologize and correct the mistake that was made last week. MIDWIFERY Ms. Mitton (Memramcook-Tantramar, G): Mr. Speaker, it has been six years since New Brunswick’s midwifery demonstration site opened here in Fredericton. Despite the pilot’s success and the wait-list caused by the high demand, the expansion of midwifery services has been stuck, with the government waiting on a review.

Recently, I discovered that that review was completed last year and has been sitting on a shelf. It found that 99% of clients were satisfied or very satisfied with the midwifery care they received and that those receiving midwifery services had much lower levels of labour induction, despite New Brunswick’s overall induction rate having increased over this period. The evidence clearly shows that midwifery care can provide the best outcomes for low-risk pregnancies.

Considering that the report recommended both making the Fredericton program permanent and expanding midwifery services across the province, when will the Minister of Health be implementing these recommendations?

Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick Oral Questions Original by Hansard Office Translation by Debates Translation 12 Hon. Mr. Fitch (Riverview, Minister of Health, PC): Well, thank you very much. I appreciate that question. That is a report that was received, Mr. Speaker. I know that it is taking longer than the members opposite want, as they want to stress. The report is with staff, and we are reviewing some of those items. At the appropriate time, we will be revealing that and our direction on the midwifery file. Thank you. Ms. Mitton (Memramcook-Tantramar, G): Mr.

Speaker, the government has had this report sitting on the minister’s desk for a very long time, and it is clear that this minister does not have a plan to improve midwifery services in New Brunswick. The government requested this report to assist in making evidence-based decisions, but when its members did not like the evidence, which would require making investments in our public health care system, they buried the report. Both this government and the previous Liberal government have moved too slowly on this file.

The report also made recommendations on how to improve the recruitment, retention, and availability of midwives. Specifically, it calls for dedicated New Brunswick student program spaces in existing midwifery training programs from outside the province and for funding and supports for midwifery students who agree to practice in New Brunswick. This government says that it likes to make decisions that are based on data, and in this case, the data is clear. I am going to ask this again: When will the Minister of Health make the Fredericton program permanent and expand midwifery services across the province? Hon. Mr.

Fitch (Riverview, Minister of Health, PC): Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. When the member opposite asked about a plan, you know, we have a comprehensive plan that includes a number of different items. The midwifery one is part of that plan, when we talk about reviewing the data and looking at that.

I want to thank the New Brunswick Health and Senior Care Council for coming out with its quarterly report and talking about the Provincial Health Plan, which encompasses the entire province and talks about access to surgery, access to primary care, access to senior care, and access to mental health and addictions services and a connected health care system within New Brunswick. The health care initiatives this quarter—there is a quarterly report—have gone from 15 completed to 20 completed, Mr. Speaker. That is progress. That is moving the province forward, and we know that there is a lot of work still to do.

There are still 13 initiatives that are in progress and 1 that was not done by the release of the report, but that one is underway now. We are moving forward with a comprehensive plan for New Brunswick.

Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick Oral Questions Original by Hansard Office Translation by Debates Translation 13 [Translation] EDUCATION Ms. Landry (Madawaska Les Lacs-Edmundston, L): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Department of Post-Secondary Education, Training and Labour decided to stop funding alternative classes in three New Brunswick school districts in September. Alternative classes aim to discourage dropping out of school by providing students who have learning difficulties with a second chance.

The program has produced good results in the past, since a number of young people have entered the labour market or gone on to universities or colleges. Can the Minister of Post-Secondary Education, Training and Labour explain why the department eliminated this program, which gave many young teenagers a second chance? [Original] Hon. Ms. Dunn (Saint John Harbour, Minister of Post-Secondary Education, Training and Labour; Minister of Indigenous Affairs; Minister responsible for Immigration, PC): Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you to the member opposite for the question.

To make sure that everyone is clear, we are actually supporting three different school districts with respect to this initiative. Because of the massive population growth that we have seen and the issues around labour supply, we have had to rejig some of those funding commitments and to look at where we have to utilize those resources in the areas where we have large population growth, lots of taxing issues with respect to labour supply, and increased requirements for employment counseling, things of that nature. Unfortunately, I know that people are disappointed with respect to the funding.

However, we actually had to take those resources and allot them to the areas where they were required to support all those gaps in the system with respect to population growth and labour. Thank you. [Translation] Ms. Landry (Madawaska Les Lacs-Edmundston, L): Thank you to the minister for her answer. Unfortunately, it is far from satisfying, given the multimillion-dollar surplus the government has available.

When asked about the benefits of the alternative class program, some young people said they could not function within the usual school system framework, either because of the number of students, the schedule, physical limitations, or mental limitations. These young teenagers need to learn in an environment adapted to their needs and challenges. They see the possibility for a new life, a new opportunity, and the hope of succeeding and thriving in this program. Otherwise, they are going to drop out of school.

Since New Brunswick is a champion of inclusive education, can the Minister of Education and Early Childhood Development explain how he plans to accommodate these students

Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick Oral Questions Original by Hansard Office Translation by Debates Translation 14 and whether he plans to allocate the necessary funds to school districts so that the alternative class program continues to be provided everywhere in New Brunswick? L’hon. M. Hogan (Carleton, ministre de l’Éducation et du Développement de la petite enfance, PC) : Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. That is a good question. Inclusion measures continue to be supported throughout the province.

It is true that the alternative classes we support in several schools in our province are really important to the success of our students, especially for those who have a hard time participating in regular classes daily. So, our department is continuing to make investments. What is different from what the member opposite mentioned in her previous question is that it was a different department. In our eyes, it is important to prepare all of our students for their future so they can lead a successful life and make a living. MENTAL HEALTH Ms.

Holt (Bathurst East—Nepisiguit—Saint-Isidore, Leader of the Official Opposition, L): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. According to what we have heard today, this government does not have a strategy for homeless people and the people who do not want to be in the streets during the cold season. There is no budget. There are no shelters, nor results, and it is shameful. [Original] Today we see and hear that for people who are experiencing homelessness and need to get out of the cold, there is no strategy, there is no budget, there are no shelters ready, and there are no results. It is deeply concerning.

I want to move upstream. People oftentimes find themselves homeless because they have struggled to get access to mental health care. My colleague just mentioned deeply concerning statistics from the Canadian Institute for Health Information (CIHI). Access to an appointment after the point of referral to a community-based mental health care counseling service in New Brunswick is twice as long as the nearest province. In Newfoundland it is 33 days, and here it is 63 days. Can the Minister responsible for Addictions and Mental Health Services tell us what she is doing about this? Hon. S.

Wilson (Moncton Southwest, Minister responsible for Women’s Equality; Minister responsible for Addictions and Mental Health Services, PC): Mr. Speaker, that is a good question. Since I took on this job as Minister responsible for Addictions and Mental Health Services at the end of June, I have been traveling around and talking to a lot of people and stakeholders dealing with this ongoing issue. The one thing we have learned about mental health and addictions is that there was no recovery for them. If people went to detox, they could detox, but then they were back out

Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick Oral Questions Original by Hansard Office Translation by Debates Translation 15 on the street and there was no one to help them with what drove them to addiction in the first place. We are here to build and have a recovery centre where people can go and have the proper wraparound services to deal with what drove them to addiction in the first place. We have all kinds of stakeholders doing excellent work out there trying to help, and we are going to fix this problem. I know—I know—that this is the solution, but it is ongoing work. It is ongoing, and it will not stop.

We are all working together. When questions come from across the floor, there are about four departments that could stand up and answer them. Mr. Speaker (Hon. Bill Oliver): The time for question period has expired.