British Columbia Hansard — Tuesday, October 18, 2005

H1018am-07

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

First Session, 38th Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY (HANSARD) Tuesday, October 18, 2005 Morning Sitting Volume 2, Number 7 THE HONOURABLE BILL BARISOFF, SPEAKER ISSN 0709-1281

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Iona V. Campagnolo, CM, OBC FIRST SESSION, 38TH PARLIAMENT SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Bill Barisoff EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................Hon. Gordon Campbell Minister of State for Intergovernmental Relations .......................................................................................................... Hon.

John van Dongen Deputy Premier and Minister of Education and Minister Responsible for Early Learning and Literacy...................... Hon. Shirley Bond Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation .......................................................................................................Hon. Tom Christensen Minister of Advanced Education and Minister Responsible for Research and Technology ........................................... Hon.

Murray Coell Minister of Agriculture and Lands.......................................................................................................................................................Hon. Pat Bell Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Multiculturalism............................................................................... Hon. Wally Oppal, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ..........................................................................................................................Hon.

Stan Hagen Minister of State for Childcare ........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Linda Reid Minister of Community Services and Minister Responsible for Seniors’ and Women’s Issues........................................... Hon. Ida Chong Minister of Economic Development and Minister Responsible for the Asia-Pacific Initiative and the Olympics.................Hon.

Colin Hansen Minister of Employment and Income Assistance ...........................................................................................................Hon. Claude Richmond Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources .......................................................................................................Hon. Richard Neufeld Minister of State for Mining............................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Bill Bennett Minister of Environment and Minister Responsible for Water Stewardship and Sustainable Communities ...............Hon. Barry Penner Minister of Finance.......................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Carole Taylor Minister of Forests and Range and Minister Responsible for Housing ............................................................................. Hon.

Rich Coleman Minister of Health ......................................................................................................................................................................Hon. George Abbott Minister of Labour and Citizens’ Services .......................................................................................................................... Hon. Michael de Jong Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General................................................................................................................................Hon.

John Les Minister of Small Business and Revenue and Minister Responsible for Deregulation ...................................................... Hon. Rick Thorpe Minister of Tourism, Sports and the Arts........................................................................................................................................Hon. Olga Ilich Minister of Transportation...........................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Kevin Falcon LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Official Opposition .........................................................................................................................................................Carole James Deputy Speaker ....................................................................................................................................................................................Sindi Hawkins Assistant Deputy Speaker.....................................................................................................................................................................Sue Hammell Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole.................................................................................................................................................

Harry Bloy Clerk of the Legislative Assembly .........................................................................................................................E. George MacMinn, OBC, QC Clerk Assistant.........................................................................................................................................................................................Robert Vaive Clerk Assistant and Law Clerk .......................................................................................................................................................Ian D.

Izard, QC Clerk Assistant and Clerk of Committees ....................................................................................................................................... Craig H. James Clerk Assistant and Committee Clerk ..........................................................................................................................................Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sergeant-at-Arms............................................................................................................................................................................. A.A.

Humphreys Director, Hansard Services ..................................................................................................................................................Anthony Dambrauskas Legislative Librarian ..................................................................................................................................................................................Jane Taylor Acting Legislative Comptroller..................................................................................................................................................Brent Cunningham

Party Standings: Liberal 46; New Democratic 33 ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Abbott, Hon. George (L) ..........................................................................Shuswap Austin, Robin (NDP)...................................................................................Skeena Bains, Harry (NDP)....................................................................... Surrey-Newton Barisoff, Hon. Bill (L)...............................................Penticton–Okanagan Valley Bell, Hon. Pat (L) ..................................................................Prince George North Bennett, Hon.

Bill (L) .....................................................................East Kootenay Black, Iain (L) ..................................................................Port Moody–Westwood Bloy, Harry (L).....................................................................................Burquitlam Bond, Hon. Shirley (L).......................................... Prince George–Mount Robson Brar, Jagrup (NDP)..........................................................Surrey–Panorama Ridge Campbell, Hon. Gordon (L) ..............................................

Vancouver–Point Grey Cantelon, Ron (L)................................................................... Nanaimo-Parksville Chong, Hon. Ida (L) ......................................................... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ................................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Christensen, Hon. Tom (L) ...................................................... Okanagan-Vernon Chudnovsky, Dave (NDP).................................................Vancouver-Kensington Coell, Hon. Murray (L) ..........................................Saanich North and the Islands Coleman, Hon.

Rich (L)................................................Fort Langley–Aldergrove Conroy, Katrine (NDP) ............................................... West Kootenay–Boundary Coons, Gary (NDP) .............................................................................North Coast Cubberley, David (NDP)................................................................. Saanich South de Jong, Hon.

Michael (L) ........................................Abbotsford–Mount Lehman Dix, Adrian (NDP) ..............................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Evans, Corky (NDP)......................................................................Nelson-Creston Falcon, Hon. Kevin (L) ............................................................

Surrey-Cloverdale Farnworth, Mike (NDP) ....................................Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Fleming, Rob (NDP) ...................................................................Victoria-Hillside Fraser, Scott (NDP) ...................................................................Alberni-Qualicum Gentner, Guy (NDP)............................................................................ Delta North Hagen, Hon. Stan (L) ......................................................................Comox Valley Hammell, Sue (NDP) ........................................................

Surrey–Green Timbers Hansen, Hon. Colin (L) .......................................................Vancouver-Quilchena Hawes, Randy (L)............................................................... Maple Ridge–Mission Hawkins, Sindi (L) .................................................................... Kelowna-Mission Hayer, Dave S. (L) ..................................................................... Surrey-Tynehead Hogg, Gordon (L)................................................................... Surrey–White Rock Horgan, John (NDP)...........................................................

Malahat–Juan de Fuca Horning, Al (L)................................................................ Kelowna–Lake Country Ilich, Hon. Olga (L)....................................................................Richmond Centre James, Carole (NDP)............................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Jarvis, Daniel (L)........................................................North Vancouver–Seymour Karagianis, Maurine (NDP) .................................................Esquimalt-Metchosin Krog, Leonard (NDP)..............................................................................

Nanaimo Krueger, Kevin (L)................................................... Kamloops–North Thompson Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP)................................ Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Lali, Harry (NDP)..............................................................................Yale-Lillooet Lee, Richard T. (L).........................................................................Burnaby North Lekstrom, Blair (L)................................................................... Peace River South Les, Hon. John (L)....................................................................

Chilliwack-Sumas Macdonald, Norm (NDP)......................................... Columbia River–Revelstoke MacKay, Dennis (L)......................................................... Bulkley Valley–Stikine Mayencourt, Lorne (L)............................................................Vancouver-Burrard McIntyre, Joan (L)...................................................... West Vancouver–Garibaldi Neufeld, Hon. Richard (L) ....................................................... Peace River North Nuraney, John (L)..................................................................Burnaby-Willingdon Oppal, Hon.

Wally, QC (L)............................................... Vancouver-Fraserview Penner, Hon. Barry (L)................................................................ Chilliwack-Kent Polak, Mary (L) ......................................................................................... Langley Puchmayr, Chuck (NDP)........................................................... New Westminster Ralston, Bruce (NDP) ...................................................................Surrey-Whalley Reid, Hon. Linda (L) ..................................................................... Richmond East Richmond, Hon.

Claude (L)...................................................................Kamloops Robertson, Gregor (NDP) .....................................................Vancouver-Fairview Roddick, Valerie (L)............................................................................ Delta South Routley, Doug (NDP).......................................................... Cowichan-Ladysmith Rustad, John (L) ..............................................................Prince George–Omineca Sather, Michael (NDP)..............................................

Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ........................................ Powell River–Sunshine Coast Simpson, Bob (NDP).......................................................................Cariboo North Simpson, Shane (NDP) ......................................................... Vancouver-Hastings Sultan, Ralph (L) .........................................................West Vancouver–Capilano Taylor, Hon. Carole (L)..........................................................

Vancouver-Langara Thorne, Diane (NDP) ......................................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Thorpe, Hon. Rick (L)............................................................Okanagan-Westside Trevena, Claire (NDP) .......................................................................North Island van Dongen, Hon. John (L)..................................................Abbotsford-Clayburn Whittred, Katherine (L).............................................

North Vancouver–Lonsdale Wyse, Charlie (NDP) ......................................................................Cariboo South Yap, John (L)........................................................................Richmond-Steveston LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Clayburn ........................................................ Hon. John van Dongen Abbotsford–Mount Lehman................................................Hon. Michael de Jong Alberni-Qualicum ...............................................................................

Scott Fraser Bulkley Valley–Stikine ................................................................ Dennis MacKay Burnaby North................................................................................ Richard T. Lee Burnaby-Edmonds............................................................................. Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Willingdon ........................................................................John Nuraney Burquitlam............................................................................................

Harry Bloy Cariboo North....................................................................................Bob Simpson Cariboo South................................................................................... Charlie Wyse Chilliwack-Kent ....................................................................... Hon. Barry Penner Chilliwack-Sumas ........................................................................... Hon.

John Les Columbia River–Revelstoke ......................................................Norm Macdonald Comox Valley .............................................................................Hon. Stan Hagen Coquitlam-Maillardville................................................................... Diane Thorne Cowichan-Ladysmith .......................................................................Doug Routley Delta North........................................................................................

Guy Gentner Delta South...................................................................................Valerie Roddick East Kootenay ............................................................................Hon. Bill Bennett Esquimalt-Metchosin ............................................................. Maurine Karagianis Fort Langley–Aldergrove....................................................... Hon. Rich Coleman Kamloops ......................................................................... Hon. Claude Richmond Kamloops–North Thompson..........................................................

Kevin Krueger Kelowna–Lake Country .......................................................................Al Horning Kelowna-Mission ............................................................................Sindi Hawkins Langley................................................................................................

Mary Polak Malahat–Juan de Fuca........................................................................John Horgan Maple Ridge–Mission ......................................................................Randy Hawes Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows...........................................................Michael Sather Nanaimo ...........................................................................................Leonard Krog Nanaimo-Parksville..........................................................................

Ron Cantelon Nelson-Creston.................................................................................. Corky Evans New Westminster ........................................................................Chuck Puchmayr North Coast .........................................................................................Gary Coons North Island.................................................................................... Claire Trevena North Vancouver–Lonsdale ....................................................

Katherine Whittred North Vancouver–Seymour .............................................................. Daniel Jarvis Oak Bay–Gordon Head.................................................................Hon. Ida Chong Okanagan-Vernon ..............................................................Hon. Tom Christensen Okanagan-Westside................................................................... Hon. Rick Thorpe Peace River North ...............................................................Hon.

Richard Neufeld Peace River South ..........................................................................Blair Lekstrom Penticton–Okanagan Valley...................................................... Hon. Bill Barisoff Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain................................................. Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Westwood .........................................................................Iain Black Powell River–Sunshine Coast.....................................................Nicholas Simons Prince George North .........................................................................Hon.

Pat Bell Prince George–Mount Robson................................................. Hon. Shirley Bond Prince George–Omineca .....................................................................John Rustad Richmond Centre .......................................................................... Hon. Olga Ilich Richmond East ............................................................................ Hon. Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston ............................................................................... John Yap Saanich North and the Islands..................................................Hon.

Murray Coell Saanich South..............................................................................David Cubberley Shuswap ................................................................................ Hon. George Abbott Skeena ...............................................................................................Robin Austin Surrey-Cloverdale ....................................................................Hon. Kevin Falcon Surrey–Green Timbers.....................................................................

Sue Hammell Surrey-Newton ....................................................................................Harry Bains Surrey–Panorama Ridge...................................................................... Jagrup Brar Surrey-Tynehead .............................................................................Dave S. Hayer Surrey-Whalley ............................................................................... Bruce Ralston Surrey–White Rock..........................................................................

Gordon Hogg Vancouver-Burrard .................................................................. Lorne Mayencourt Vancouver-Fairview.................................................................. Gregor Robertson Vancouver-Fraserview ...................................................... Hon. Wally Oppal, QC Vancouver-Hastings...................................................................... Shane Simpson Vancouver-Kensington ........................................................... David Chudnovsky Vancouver-Kingsway...........................................................................

Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara.................................................................Hon. Carole Taylor Vancouver–Mount Pleasant .............................................Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Vancouver–Point Grey..................................................... Hon. Gordon Campbell Vancouver-Quilchena ............................................................. Hon. Colin Hansen Victoria–Beacon Hill ........................................................................Carole James Victoria-Hillside................................................................................

Rob Fleming West Kootenay–Boundary ............................................................ Katrine Conroy West Vancouver–Capilano ............................................................... Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Garibaldi............................................................. Joan McIntyre Yale-Lillooet ..........................................................................................Harry Lali

CONTENTS Tuesday, October 18, 2005 Morning Sitting Routine Proceedings Page Second Reading of Bills........................................................................................................ ..................................................... 839 North Island–Coast Development Initiative Trust Act (Bill 7) Hon. C. Hansen C. Trevena R. Cantelon L. Krog Hon. C. Hansen Southern Interior Development Initiative Trust Act (Bill 8) Hon. C. Hansen K. Krueger N. Simons A. Horning D. Routley Hon. C. Richmond C.

Evans Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room Committee of Supply............................................................................................................ ..................................................... 855 Estimates: Ministry of Community Services and Minister Responsible for Seniors' and Women's Issues (continued) Hon. I. Chong B. Ralston

839 TUESDAY, OCTOBER 18, 2005 The House met at 10:03 a.m. Prayers. Orders of the Day Hon. B. Penner: In this House, I call second reading of the North Island–Coast Development Initiative Trust Act, and in Committee A, I call continued estimates debate for the Ministry of Community Services. Second Reading of Bills NORTH ISLAND–COAST DEVELOPMENT INITIATIVE TRUST ACT Hon. C. Hansen: I move that Bill 7 be now read a second time. C. Trevena: I'd like to speak to this bill because it provides much-needed money for our communities. But I have to admit that I do have certain reservations about it.

Our communities need this financial invest- ment, but we're talking about $50 million, which is going to be spread essentially from the Malahat to Queen Charlotte Sound. This is almost the whole Is- land, as well as the Sunshi ne Coast. The need for eco- nomic development is much greater than is provided for in this bill. [1005] The bill is still on the table, and yet I've already had approach from many members in my constituency, many individuals, many organizations, who are look- ing for financial help.

Last week I was travelling around the constituency, an d the lists of possible or- ganizations that wanted fund ing, the list of communi- ties, was extensive. There's th e fuel dock in Alert Bay, the possibility of fish processing there; value-added products in Port McNeill; the marina in Port Alice. Port Hardy needs money for economic development. Campbell River has economic and tourist initiatives. And the list goes on. And then, of course, there is the lack of commit- ment to those industries which could invest tens of millions into the Island economy.

I'm speaking of the specialty cellulose mill in Port Alice, which has been sorely neglected by this government. That mill doesn't need a fillip of $50 million through a fund. It doesn't need government subsidies. It just needs a commit- ment — a commitment to our remote and rural com- munities. As I say, the communities in my constituency all have projects which need funding.

But one of my con- cerns about the funding in this proposed bill is that it could pit community agai nst community vying for those dollars against other projects, both within the constituency with communiti es down-Island and with communities on the Sunshine Coast. Communities do need fundin g, but they also need a vision, an economic develo pment strategy which looks at our resource-based communities and sees where we can go with them. North Island is in transition.

Log- ging has been our mainstay , but there's real concern about how much longer we can see the big forest com- panies come in with mechanized logging; how much longer they can put workers on the sideline as they manage their cut control to their benefit, not to the community's benefit; and ho w much longer they can ship the logs out of the region and across the border. A vision for economic development would show a commitment to value-added production in the regions where the timber is harvested.

A vision for economic development would allow the communities to work together to develop a plan which could create large- scale employment for years to come. As I say, ours is a region in transition. Our wild fisheries are in decline. Fishing families are hugely in debt after this year's almost nonexistent opening. We need a vision which can use the fisheries we have in our own communities, not just big businesses control- ling them, and which can develop real alternatives for those people no longer in the industry.

We need an economic vision which looks at ways to develop aqua- culture without damaging the remaining wild stocks, an economic vision which br ings those creative small- scale schemes already being developed, such as the abalone co-op in Sointula, into fruition. W e n e e d a n e c o n o m i c v i s i o n t h a t i s c r e a t i v e , h a r - nessing the alternative energy projects — such as wind power in Holberg, biomass in Gold River, exploration for tidal power — which are already in development.

We need an ongoing commitment for our communities where resources taken from the communities are put back — put back year after year, not just on a one-time basis as suggested in this bi ll.

Only this way, with a creative economic vision, can we really develop a strong economic foundation, a foundation which will significantly increase the tax base for our communities, a foundation on which communities can build so that they can develop, so that families can stay there in their communities, so that there is easy access to public health care in communities and so that there is equita- ble access to public education in those communities. Another concern I have about this bill is the makeup of the committees and the directors of the trust.

When the North Island–Coast Development Ini- tiative Trust Act was introduced, it was done with the understanding that it would be free from political in- terference. This is a great concept, but who is on the regional advisory committees? Elected mayors, elected chairs of regional districts and MLAs. These are all political positions. The directors include five people appointed by cabinet, which seems to me like a politi- cal position. [1010] If these committees are to work, they do need to be free from political interference .

They need to look with vision at a region as a whole — a region which has similar needs. The needs of Courtenay or Gibsons are

840 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, OCTOBER 18, 2005 very different from the needs of Port Hardy or Hol- berg, which means their visions are going to be differ- ent. My other concern about the makeup of these re- gional advisory committees and the boards is the nota- ble absence of first nations. Despite the often-stated commitment to the new relati onship, no first nations are included. There are 17 bands in my constituency. They won't have a voice under this proposed bill, and yet their needs for economic development are huge.

They, too, have ideas for development — from the Cape Mudge band, the Homalco First Nation, the Campbell River band in the south; to the 'Namgis First Nation, the Kwakiutl Band Council , and the Gwa'sala- 'Nakwaxda'xw Nation in the north. All have economic ideas. They have a vision, and they, too, need assis- tance for economic regeneration.

I would like to conclude that while I support the fact that money will be coming to the communities I represent, and I will try to make sure that they get a fair share of that, I am co ncerned about the political nature of the regional ad visory committees, I am con- cerned about the fact that first nations are not included, and I am concerned about the lack of vision which is embodied in this bill. R. Cantelon: I rise to enthusiastically support the North Island–Coast Development Initiative Trust Act. I bring my support from the perspective of a city coun- cillor for six years in the city of Nanaimo.

Many is the time we travelled the long road down here to Victoria, cap in hand, to meet various ministers to seek funding for one of our projects in our local area — very success- fully on many occasions. In fact, I want to compliment and thank the government for their support of our Vancouver Island conference centre, where they con- tributed $8.3 million, a significant amount, towards the project in Nanaimo. That's a significant contribution that makes the project viable.

This is an inspired and creative legislation because, basically, the effect of it is to put the money and the power to use it in the hands of the local communities. Now, I referred earlier to the Vancouver Island confer- ence centre, which is a major project in the Nanaimo area. We are going to be building a 40,000-square-foot conference centre. There will be a large, new Marriott hotel, a 16,000-square-foot museum and an auditorium to be used for public meetings, including city halls. So in looking for funding support, we decided to contact all the local municipalities.

Of course, the gen- eral idea, and it was mentioned by the previous speaker opposite, that there could be a tendency to pit one community against the other…. Much to our sur- prise and pleasure, the other communities — including Duncan, North Cowichan, as far away as Port Hardy and Port Alberni — supported the project. The reason for that is they saw this initiative as a strategic initiative that would bring new business and new economic op- portunities to the centre part of the Island.

Where I'm going with this is that we learned from that experience that the communities are willing to work corroboratively, that they're willing to work to- gether on projects like that . That's why this legislation is so appropriate to the times. Communities are able to work together and recognize what the strategic impacts are that affect their communities. It's far better, may I say — with all due respect to our own government here in Victoria — than a more remote administration. This bill, and this fund, gives them the opportunity to set their own priorities.

In fact, this bill requires that they do just that. They're no t able to act and just cut cheques and send all the money out. They must act within the context of a well-thought out plan that looks at the area strategically, that gives the entire area the biggest bang for the dollar. The speaker opposite talked about pitting against…. But at the same time, the speaker opposite also mentioned working together.

Perhaps it's my op- timistic nature that I believe that they will work to- gether, and that's been my experience — that they're eager to work together. [1015] There are many projects in the central Island area that can easily be identified. One of the needs is for a larger airport in the central Island area so that people don't have to go over the Malahat to get on a plane to get to Calgary. That's a key element. Another one that affects the entire Island is the E&N railway project. Certainly, that's a project that this committee may look at. There are others. There ar e cruise ship terminals.

That's up for the communities to decide. I respect that the speaker opposite said that they want it to be independent, although I notice that she said she'll try to make sure that they get their own su pport, whic h wou ld seem to m e to be a ty pe of po- litical influence, Mr. Speaker, if I may say. Neverthe- less, they will be independent. They'll be guided by the regional boards, and then they will have to act abso- lutely independently. I expect that they will. It's a great opportunity. It's a wonderful program. I think they have two approaches. That's one reason that they have to require a five-year plan.

It would be easy to dole the money out in smaller amounts and try to fulfil so much for each community, but that is not the concept. The concept is to do projects that signifi- cantly impact a broader area and that bring business, whether it be tourism or other economic developments, to an entire area. In doing that, one of the people we talked to — a banker who may well be a possible candidate for the board, a man with great perspective — indicated that you lever the money. You don't just hand it out.

You try to keep the trust money in a working fund so that you can use that to lever other funds, either from pri- vate investment or other orders of government, to have a multiplying effect on the fund itself. While it's a $50- million fund, it may have the effect of $150 million, or even more times that, in terms of capital investment to the region. This is a great bill. This is a groundbreaking bill for the entire Island. This answer s many of the issues that we've had over the years about how we get funding

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 18, 2005 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 841 and how we use it. It puts the power in the hands of the community. I'm very optimistic and assured that they're going to work together, because they know their areas the best, for strategic investments that will greatly improve the economic opportunity in their ar- eas. In closing, I just want to say, again, that I think this is a very innovative bill, a creative bill. It will unleash the creative juices in all th ose areas. I'm sure we'll see many innovative ways that they use this money to good advantage for their regions. L.

Krog: I want to address, firstly, some thanks to the government and to the minister responsible, the Minister of Economic Development. One is always grateful to receive moneys from the government on Vancouver Island. I must tell this House a bit of a story. The late Deane Finlayson, who was a well-known figure in the Nanaimo community, told me some years ago that the late Premier W.A.C. Bennett had said to him once: "All those folks in the interior like highways, so they vote Social Credit. I give them highways. Those folks on Vancouver Island all vote NDP.

They want social pro- grams, so I give them social programs." I might say that, happily, that issue of highways was resolved during the te n years with the NDP in power. We got a decent highway which has enabled the Island to somewhat recover from the enormous changes taking place in the resource industry, particu- larly the coastal forest industry. Although I would not wish to look this gift horse in the mouth, so to speak, I cannot let this opportunity pass to make a few remarks with respect to this particular bill.

Fifty million dollars is not a lot of money, but wisely used by local communities, it may have a sig- nificant economic benefit. Fo r that, I think I can say on behalf of the people of Nanaimo that we are truly grateful. However, there are certain issues around the nature of the trust that do give me some concern. This gov- ernment has talked a great deal about the golden dec- ade and the great promises. It seems to me that one of our primary obligations as members of this Legislature is not to provide for care, if you will, for people in our society who have already done well or communities that are doing well.

Our greater obligation is to look to those communities and those citizens within our soci- ety who have not enjoyed all the benefits of the luck of the draw or public education or economic develop- ment. In particular, in my community, in Nanaimo, it is the first nations. We have all heard repeated, many, many times, these statistics surrounding high unem- ployment, high rates of suicide, alcohol and substance abuse, infant mortality. There's no need to dwell on those today. [1020] I am concerned that this bill does not seem to pro- vide for a seat at the table for first nations.

In my com- munity they are a significan t population and certainly one of those populations deserving of support and assistance to lift them out of what has been a fairly long and tragic history of poverty and deprivation. In particular, I want to thump the drum a little this morning and get it on the reco rd that it is my view that Nanaimo, with its interesting history, would be con- siderably — how shall I say? — improved if there was a possibility of an aboriginal cultural centre much like the one at Duncan, particularly in the downtown core.

I give my compliments to the member opposite, the member for Nanaimo-Parksville, who worked so vig- orously, long and hard, on both the Port Theatre and on the recently announced civic centre. Of course, I would remind the House that it was the New Democ- ratic government that provided a substantial one-third portion of the funding, as I recall, for the Port Theatre. It seems to me that it is those kinds of initiatives that are important. Therefore, it troubles me that the first nations are not included at the table.

It would be my sincere hope that the directors of the north island– coast development initiative trust will in fact give con- sideration to that, because surely — and I come back to my initial point — this trust is designed to provide for development, to increase employment and to improve the lives of the citizens of the north Island, and surely, we should try and direct it at those citizens who are most obviously in that great need. That is most cer- tainly the first nations almo st across the board, tragi- cally, notwithstanding the efforts that have been made over the last decade. There is much to be done .

Recently in the city of Nanaimo the city entered in to a protocol agreement with the Nanaimo first nations, which is a very positive first step, notwithstanding the stall that seems to exist with respect to treaty negotiations. Having said that — $50 million. It's a reasonable chunk of change, but it's not a lot of money spread out over the significant popula tion and when one consid- ers the enormous problems that exist on the west coast.

In particular, I am referring to the forest industry on the west coast, which as a result of the softwood lum- ber problems; the substantial overcutting over many decades of prime old-growth forest; the overcapacity in mills, which no one seems to really want to talk about on the west coast…. We are in the midst of and have been undergoing significant economic change, and that change often involves what is euphemistically referred to as downsizing.

Clearly, there has been mu ch talk over time, but it is now, I think, appropriate for one of the focuses of this trust to attempt to diversify our forest industry, to ensure that the coastal forest industry will in fact sur- vive and be a generator of employment. We have seen a significant reduction in employment in the coastal forest industry, through mechanization and through tax policies which enhanced that.

Frankly, at the end of the day my view is that it's better to have individual employees paying taxes than it is to have one corpora- tion making greater profits and paying what this gov- ernment seems to be devoted to; that is, a lower and lower rate of income tax on those corporate profits.

842 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, OCTOBER 18, 2005 When someone is employed in my city, they spend their money in the city of Nanaimo. When Weyer- haeuser or its successors makes a profit, it doesn't nec- essarily get spent in the city of Nanaimo. I think what has to be one of the focuses of the trust i s t o e n s u r e t h a t w e a r e increasing genuine long-term employment. It is not about simply enhancing corpo- rate profits. It should be about encouraging smaller businesses.

I have the honour to sit on the Finance Committee, and having toured the province, it is clear from the submissions made to the Finance Committee that what people are looking for is better support for small business, not simply mega-projects.

They are looking for increased employment in their communi- ties, and they are looking for employment opportuni- ties that allow the children of families that already live there to remain there. [1025] I think for those of us who had the good fortune to be either born on Vancouver Island or who have made it a living choice, as some of the other members in my caucus certainly have, we want to ensure that people can continue to live on Vancouver Island, but live in economic circumstances that befit living in what is, frankly, the richest part of the globe — and that means economic opportunities.

That also means for most on Vancouver Island a real sensitivity around the issue of the environment, around sustainability. It would be my hope that this trust, the directors of this trust, the regional advisory committees, will be the kind of forward-looking people who take full advantage of this opportunity to do something dramatic and cutting edge.

I also want to compliment the minister for includ- ing in the bill the specific provision that regional MLAs be appointed as well, because that cuts across party lines and, in particular on Vancouver Island, means many of my colleagues will be on the regional advisory committees.

I trust — notwithstanding the fact they won't be paid for this position, and I'm thinking par- ticularly of the other appointees — that the acronym RAC will not refer to the experience they'll be suffering over their three years of appo intment, trying to satisfy the competing requests from various parties in the re- spective communities. We know that Port Alice, and communities like Port Alice, are in dire need, very dire need, and there will be sign ificant pressure on the committee to ensure that community's needs, in par- ticular, are met.

As much as I appreciate that the bill gives a fairly loose structure to the trust to expend its funds, I think, certainly in committee stage, we may all as legislators w i s h t o l o o k a t t h e p o s s i b i l i t y o f g i v i n g a l i t t l e m o r e direction. I would hate to think that this opportunity would be somehow wasted if not coordinated with other direct government and ministry and municipal spending.

I would hope that all of the people involved in this wonderful opportunity will, in fact, take full advantage — to use it in a broader way to ensure that the best bang for the buck, so to speak, is achieved. The three-year strategic plan that the act talks about for each fiscal year…. One concern I might have is that if the fund itself has to pay for all of the necessary in- frastructure, if you will, the staffing that will be re- quired in order to advise what is a volunteer trust may tend to eat up more of the funding than would be ap- propriate.

I would hope, expect and trust that the gov- ernment, through its ministri es, particularly the Minis- try of Economic Development, will provide assistance so that we are not simply duplicating and repeating things. There have been a number of economic studies done with respect to the north Island — with respect to the province generally, for that matter — and it would be my hope that the committee will be encouraged and, indeed, receive the direct of fers of support from gov- ernment to ensure that we use these moneys as wisely as possible.

I note also that with resp ect to the structure and the spending, the trust supports investment in forestry, transportation, tourism, mining, Olympic opportuni- ties, small business, econom ic development, energy, agriculture. However, it doesn't include either fishing or aquaculture, and I think it's been clear from previ- ous debate in this House this session that those of us on this side, in particular, are not opposed to the concept of fish farming, but we do support the concept of fish farming that is done in a sustainable way and in a way that will not damage the environment or natural fish stocks.

I would have hoped that that would have been one of the things that the government would look at very quickly. We have a significant history on Vancouver Island of a long historical involvement in fishing. I think it would be a wise thing for the government to consider in that regard. There is a lot of generational experience. Many families in my community have been involved in fishing for two and three and four genera- tions. I think it is certainly an area of the economy that is worthy of consideration by the trust, and my friend the member for North Island pointed that out as well.

I think it is a very important area. [1030] I'm also somewhat concerne d by the fact that there are no spending limits on an y particular sector or pro- ject. I suspect that every community will have a major project, and $50 million spread amongst all those communities, if it was done equally, might in fact not be enough to fund the kind of project that would pro- vide for the long-term employment that I think should be the focus of the trust. At the same time, I wouldn't want to see $50 mil- lion dropped in one community in the hopes that there would be some economic spinoff.

In my own commu- nity, city councils over various times allowed for the development of malls in the north end of the city, which has brought Nanaimo the status of being proba- bly one of the lead shopping centres in British Colum- bia. The downside is that my colleague the member for Nanaimo-Parksville and I are now always vigorously trying to ensure that we get funding for downtown revitalization to correct the problems of past planning

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 18, 2005 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 843 — which seems to be a concern I've noticed, having travelled across this province on various occasions, for all communities. In any event, to conclude, I want to welcome the money and thank the minister for this proposal. But I would be remiss in my duties as an MLA if I did not provide criticism of it and say that it will probably get, obviously, my support but that there are refinements that could and need to be made. Mr. Speaker: Seeing no further speakers, the Minis- ter of Economic Development closes debate. Hon. C.

Hansen: For the benefit of those that are following the debate, either through the telecast or sub- sequently in Hansard, I just point out that we have two bills that are going through second reading this morn- ing. One is Bill 7, the North Island–Coast Development Initiative Trust Act, which is before us now for second reading. The second one is Bill 8, which we will get to next, which is the Southern Interior Development Ini- tiative Trust Act. The two acts are parallel acts. In fact, the wording throughout them is almost identical.

As I introduce Bill 8, I will bring some more formal com- ments to put on the record that really apply to both of these pieces of legislation, given the parallel nature of the two. Just in closing off the di scussion on this particular bill, I did want to follow up on a couple of the com- ments that were made by members during the course of second reading. The member for Nanaimo men- tioned that he had the good fortune of being born on Vancouver Island. I, too, had the good fortune of being born on Vancouver Island — born in Port Alberni. I, too, come from a heritage of the fishing industry.

My father was a commercial fisherman out of Port Al- berni, as was my grandfather. I certainly know the challenges that the fishing industry is going through on the coast of British Columbia and the need for us to look forward to the future and anticipate how coastal communities are going to thrive and survive during changing times. I also have lots of family who have been involved in the forest industry on Vancouver Island over many decades. They, too, are facing some big challenges as we look forward to the future .

That's really what this legislation provides for: the ability of individual com- munities to decide, to help to determine what their economic future might look like. I know there was some talk about how this money might get divided up among communities on the Is- land. It would be my hope that those who are adminis- tering these funds would look at big-picture solutions, big-picture answers — not just at how any one commu- nity can benefit but, really, at how a region could benefit, how communities can work together for everybody's mutual advantage.

I think this trust really provides an opportunity for that. [1035] I know that the member for North Island talked about how this was to be free of political interference. I just wanted to reshape that a little bit, because it's not so much being free of political interference but being free of provincial government direction and directive in how these funds should be allocated. I have huge respect for the political leaders at the local and regional level throughout this province.

I think they have great ideas, and I think one of the things that lead to this wh ole concept of these trusts was a recognition that while local community leaders had great ideas about thei r economic future, they lacked the financial resources to make some of those things happen. They also lacked a structure which al- lows them to effectively work together, community to community, on a regional basis with some proper re- sources behind them. That's exactly what these trusts provide for: for the resources to be at the disposal of local community leaders.

I believe that Members of the Legislative Assembly for these regions also have a very useful perspective. I know that of the 79 members of the Legislature who serve in this chamber, we get a very good perspective on our commu- nities by the inputs that we get at the local level.

While I represent an urban constituency, which is entirely contained within the city of Vancouver, I know that many of the members of this House who represent rural communities have th e challenge of the often competing interests of many different municipalities, the regional districts and all of the other political forces that are there within just one constituency. So I think they, too, bring a very useful perspective to how these trust moneys can be allocated.

I think that as we've seen in the northern develop- ment initiative, which was established a year ago, this is a real opportunity for those community leaders to build a future for themselves and to create some vi- sions for what the economies can look like. The member mentioned the need for not having duplication of effort, and I th ink that that's there. Cer- tainly, the Ministry of Economic Development will be there to assist the trust to the extent that they want that assistance, but I don't want to get in a position where the Ministry of Economic Development is trying to give direction.

Again, I think that's contrary to the whole intent behind this legislation. We're there as a resource. We will try to be helpful. We have ministry representatives who are on the ground in many of these communities and in regions throughout the prov- ince and who can be helpful. I also know that these three trusts, working to- gether, will be able to be of mutual benefit.

I know that the recently appointed executive director of the north- ern interior trust has already offered to assist the two new trusts in their development, so I think there are some shared ideas that can help prevent the duplica- tion of effort. There was a comment about first nations. We are very anxious to see that first nations have a say in how these trust moneys are expended. We looked at several different models as to how to build a formula that is not the provincial government governing these particu- lar trusts but rather that we set up a governing struc-

844 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, OCTOBER 18, 2005 ture, pulling on various players for the interim boards. I think it's important to stress that — interim boards. We have to provide in the legislation a means by which that governance comes together. It is our intention as a government to make sure that the first nations are well represented on these boards as a result of the provin- cial government appointees that would be made to these boards. I would welcome input from members on all sides of the House of appropriate candidates that we may wish to nominate to those positions.

With those comments, specific to the north island– coast development initiative, I would like to conclude the second reading debate. When we get into the next bill, I'll provide some more formal comments that really apply to both of these two bills. Motion approved. Hon. C. Hansen: I move that the bill be referred to a Committee of the Whole House for consideration at the next sitting of the House after today. Bill 7, North Island–Coast Development Initiative Trust Act, read a second time and referred to a Com- mittee of the Whole House for consideration at the next sitting of the House after today. [1040] Hon.

C. Richmond: I call second reading of Bill 8. SOUTHERN INTERIOR DEVELOPMENT INITIATIVE TRUST ACT Hon. C. Hansen: I am pleased to move second reading of Bill 8. The introduction of the Southern Interior Develop- ment Initiative Trust Act honours a government com- mitment that was made to communities of the southern interior region in the same way that Bill 7 lives up to the commitments we made with regard to the north Island and coastal region. The new act delivers on our com- mitment to create a $50 million initiative trust for this region, the same as was the case for the north Island– coast.

It is to be free of provincial government interfer- ence. It is to develop economic growth and create new jobs for communities throughout this region. [S. Hawkins in the chair.] The initiative is based on the northern development initiative model, which was created to support strategic investments in regional economic priorities. The gov- ernment is funding the provision to the initiative. It is a one-time allocation of $50 million, which is to be ad- ministered by the Southern Interior Development Ini- tiative Trust board.

The bill enables the southern interior trust to oper- ate as a corporation independent of government, with a requirement to report publicly to the region's residents. Accountability tools and measures include the prepara- tion and publication of stra tegic plans, annual reports and audited financial statements. The act will undergo a review and evaluation by an independent committee every five years to provide further public accountabil- ity. The trust board will consist of 13 directors, eight elected by the regional advisory committees and five appointed by government.

The board is responsible to develop strategic plans, program policy and funding criteria, and guidelines to provide a framework for spending of trust funds. Two regional advisory com- mittees comprised of elected officials selected from the region's mayors, regional district chairs and MLAs will determine the spending priori ties within their region and advise the board on applications for investment. The independently run Southern Interior Develop- ment Initiative Trust will invest, manage and leverage $50 million in provincial funding for the benefit of those communities.

The initia tive is about giving com- munities the resources and tools they want to pursue their priorities. The southern interior initiative, like the other two initiatives, will support investment in the following areas: forestry, transportation, tourism, mining, Olym- pic opportunities, small business, economic develop- ment, energy and agriculture. The trust will have the ability to develop partnership investments with busi- ness at various levels of government to develop and diversify the economic base of the southern interior.

The act provides a sunset clause for the dissolution of the trust after its funds are spent. The new trust is about giving communities the resources and tools to pursue their priorities. They will identify the opportu- nities and make decisions, and they will reap the eco- nomic benefits with more jobs and a stronger, sustain- able economy. K. Krueger: I rise to jubilantly speak in favour of this bill. Before I start, Madam Speaker, I was just thinking how good it is to see you in that chair.

When I listened to you talk about blood donations yesterday, I thought about all that you've been through and the answers to our prayers that we see by having you in f r o n t o f u s t o d a y . I t ' s j u s t a r e a l p l e a s u r e t o s e e y o u here. As I said, obviously, I'm going to speak in favour of this bill. I am delighted to see the government moving in this direction here and elsewhere in the province. I heard a hilarious story some time ago about a teacher of adult ESL classes and an essay that he had assigned to his students.

The subject was: how would you spend the money if you won a million dollars? There was one student who was having a particular struggle with writing that essay. Finally, she stomped up to his desk and slapped her work down in front of him and said: "No good, teacher. I need $100,000 more." [1045] S o m e o f w h a t t h e o p p o s i t i o n i s s a y i n g , i n r e a l l y tough efforts to come up with anything negative to say about these bills, is that it's going to be hard to stretch the money far enough. That just seems hilarious to me, because the NDP performance in office never included

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 18, 2005 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 845 handing over large sums of money to communities to make decisions themselves — autonomously and on their own. It was always the opposite experience. We who represent what we affectionately know as the heartlands — the interior, the parts of the province where the money comes from that drives much of what government is able to do….

Our communities were accustomed to having to go cap in hand to Victoria anytime they needed seed money or development money or any money that they would like to have some unique initiatives with, rather than having a pool of money to decide about for themselves. The NDP way was always to tax the heart out of the heartlands and spend the money from here — take it all down to Victoria and make us come and beg for it. I did my share of begging when we were in opposition, Madam Speaker, as you'll remember, in the last half of the '90s — five really tough years of slogging.

I was begging for things that had often been promised. For example, the Clearwater hospital. There had been a commitment made eight months before the '96 election when I was elected — a firm and fast commit- ment that Clearwater would get its new hospital, which they had needed and wanted for decades. They had a really good business case for it, which the NDP in the first half of the '90s had accepted, promising them they'd get it. I was elec ted believing that promise, and my constituents believed it too. But I couldn't get it fo r them.

All through the sec- ond half of the '90s they had cellophane over their windows in that hospital in the winter, because that was the only way you could keep the heat in. They had to leave the bathroom doors open. Otherwise, the bath- room plumbing would freeze. They needed a new hos- pital, but that promise was not kept until we became government. When Gary Collins was Finance Minister, he called me into his office and said: "You're going to be Whip. You're going to be way too busy to advocate for your constituents the way you'd like.

What's on your short- list of what has to be done?" I said that the first thing is the Clearwater hospital. Within a month he had the request through Treasury Board, and we had that hos- pital on its way. It's the only structure in British Co- lumbia that has my name on a brass plaque. Not that that really matters to anybody but me, but I'm just thrilled that hospital is there. There's another example. There's a really dangerous place on the highway between Barriere and Clearwa- ter, which the locals called Pigs Corner. This may be the last time I ever use that term in this Legislature.

People kid me about it, because nobody really knew what it was. A truckload of pigs had flopped on that corner, and they ran all ar ound the countryside and ended up in people's freezers, which was sort of a funny reason to name it that, of course. I see the mem- ber across from me licking his lips. Recently one of my friends told me his little girl had said to him, "Daddy, it isn't fair," because they're raising pigs. She said: "Do you think they know they're made out of bacon?" We always got a kick out of the local name for that. We were frightened of that corner.

Everybody was frightened of it, because tr ucks were always flopping on it. It was just too dangerous a corner for the traffic that Highway 5 now receives. Larry Bancroft, who was the president of CUPE in the area and a staunch NDP supporter — even contended for their nomination — had written the NDP and bes eeched them to fix Pigs Corner. The B.C. association of truckers had identified it as one of the most da ngerous corners in B.C. — all to no avail. We just couldn't get the NDP to listen to us and free up money for projects like that.

I'm not saying these funds are of a sufficient size that they can build hospital s or repair dangerous areas on the highway, but we're getting to all of those priori- ties and initiatives as a government with an orderly way of doing things that ac tually listens to constitu- ents, to constituency MLAs and to communities, and that gets things done.

Our Premier and this minister wanted to go above and beyond that and actually put money into the hands of local representatives, includ- ing elected ones and non-elected ones that will be cho- sen, and give them the chance to deal with some of these things that are priorities to the various regions. I think this approach had its genesis in the Pre- mier's thinking through a sequence of events that hap- pened in my constituency. A little over three years ago Weyerhaeuser made a decision to close its sawmill in Vavenby.

That was a pretty bitter blow for people up there, because it was one of the two major employers in the area — 180 jobs. People were really frightened and angry. They summoned me up to Clearwater to a pub- lic meeting, a town hall meeting with 400 people there — the biggest meeting I've ever seen in Clearwater. They kind of raked me over the coals because I was the most convenient guy to do that with, although it cer- tainly wasn't my decision. [1050] And they said to me: "We want you to do things that will help us keep this community alive. We want to see more community forests. We want to see more woodlots.

We want to see more fibre into the small business basket. We want to see more allowance to first nations." This government did all of that. This government listened, but the community was still hurting. It's not Weyerhaeuser's fault. They made a business decision that they had to make. They had four mills. They only had fibre for three. They chose one. We were sorry it was us. It wasn't their fault. They have really worked at being a good corporate citizen. They left legacy money for the community. They did things right. They also found other jobs for all but 30 of their employees. I really commend them.

I think they're a tremendous corporate citizen. But the community was still left without those 180 jobs. Now, Weyerhaeuser, again, really tried to replace the employment, found themse lves an excellent value- added partner, sold that property to them, walked them through it and said: "You choose what equipment you can use." They were rea lly good. Sadly, that value- added operator hasn't quite made it financially and is

846 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, OCTOBER 18, 2005 going through bankruptcy proceedings right now, but we've still got hope that it's going to turn out well for employment in the Clearwater-Vavenby area. Whether it does or it doesn't, the community is very resourceful. The community includes a lot of wonder- ful people who have great ideas. They work really hard in small committees, and they in itiate a lot of things on their own. They've come up with a lot of really good plans over the years to help their part of the North Thompson Valley survive and thrive economically.

You know, the big stumbling block for them for years has been that they never have any money. They pour their time into it, their talents, their resources. They work so hard, but they never have any money. Well, after that financial disaster of losing the Wey- erhaeuser mill happened to Clearwater-Vavenby, a little over a year later the catastrophic wildfires of 2003 did the same thing to Barriere–Louis Creek. The big- gest employer in that whol e area burnt down. We lost another 180 jobs.

To our great sorrow, that employer decided not to rebuild its mill, again because it had more manufacturing capacity than it had fibre. It was facing up to world realities in the forest industry. We lost out, because the fire hit us. That was really devastating, and people were very frightened for their communi ties. The present Minister of Forests was the Solicitor General at that time. His ministry, and government as a whole, did an admirable job responding to the catastrophe of those fires, and so did others. There was a gentleman named George Evans, owner of the Nissan dealership in Kamloops.

On his own initiative he started the North Thompson Relief Association. He went after the manufacturer of Nissans and all the other manufacturers. He got $100,000 each from these big car manufacturing companies, and the public responded. He raised over $3 million — fantas- tic. George Evans received an award as a community leader for British Columbia, an award that the Premier initiated. He's still working with us on all of that. He's actually employed four days a week in Penticton now. He's still running his car dealership and still working with us. We waited for the federal government to step up to the table.

I still believe they're going to, but things hap- pen so slowly with the federal government. The federal government has provided fo r some ranchers' fencing — a lot of money to tear out the old fencing because it was snaring wild and domestic animals and was dan- gerous. I really appreciate that. But it takes the federal government a long time to actually come up with money to help after something like that has happened. Historically, it has taken the provincial government a long tim e as well .

A s I sa i d, y ou have to k ind of g o cap in hand to Victoria — that's people's understand- ing and knowledge of how things are usually done and have been done in the past. Well, our Premier got tired of waiting for federal money. He wanted matching money to do things for the North Thompson. One day the Solicitor General came lumbering into my office and said: "How could we help?

The boss wants to know what we could actu- ally do if I had some money for you." [1055] I said: "Well, I would like to have $2 million for hardship grants because even though the North Thompson Relief Association is doing all these things for people…." They did rebuild every house that b u r n e d d o w n t h a t d i d n ' t h a v e i n s u r a n c e . T h e y b u i l t a brand-new, beautiful trailer park to house people in who'd lost their homes. They helped people get back on their feet as far as employment. They did all sorts of things. But there were people who had losses that just weren't insured.

There were small businesses that were just struggling because they'd lost the best part of their summer. There's a really healthy tourism economy up that valley, but their paycheques come in July and Au- gust and September, and that 's when they couldn't get any customers that year because people thought British Columbia was burning down — and for a while a good part of my constituency was. I asked the Solicitor General if we could have some money for hardship grants for those people. They cut me a cheque for $2 million. That money was distrib- uted to those who had suffered hardships.

Some was left over, and that went into a pool for economic rede- velopment. He said: "What else?" I said: "People need to be re- trained, and we've got this wonderful skills centre in Clearwater" — it's not just for Clearwater — "the North Thompson Community Skills Centre. I would like to give them $1 million so that they can stop spending their time on fundraising an d, rather, can spend their time retraining people, whic h is what they're there for and what they're good at." They gave me a cheque for $1 million for them.

Those people are still stretching that money out, making it last, doing wonderful things for the whole North Thompson Valley with that re- training money. Finally, I said: "I'd like a couple of million dollars specifically for economic redevelopment. I'd like to park $1 million of that wi th the Thompson-Nicola re- gional district to fund an economic development officer long term — at least ten years." I got that. That money is mostly still there. We've been employing an eco- nomic development officer for two years now. He's really worked hard, scared up a lot of opportunity for the North Thompson Valley.

The final $1 million I wanted put in trust with George Evans, with the No rth Thompson Relief Asso- ciation, so that we would have some money to get things done as opportunities could be found for the North Thompson Valley. I got that. I got five million bucks from the Premier, cheques delivered to me by the now Minister of Forests, the then Solicitor General, and we've put that money to work very carefully. There was an expression in my family back in the days of the Depression. If you got any money — they lived on the Prairies — you had to stretch it like a horse blanket.

That's what local people do with money like that that they receive. They guard

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 18, 2005 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 847 i t v e r y j e a l o u s l y , t h e y q u e stion each other, and they make sure that it stretches and that it's there for oppor- tunity. We created what we called the North Thompson Economic Development Advisory Commission. I chair it. All of the regional district directors elected for the northern three portions of the TNRD are automatically members — whoever's elected. Then we have three great local people, one of them George Evans, who sit as directors.

We've worked along carefully looking for opportu- nity, listening to our economic development officer, managing his work and just generally pursuing oppor- tunities. We've found quite a few, and we keep finding more. We've still got most of that $2 million there, be- cause the directors watch it like hawks. We've formed the North Thompson Economic De- velopment Society now in order that we can manage the remainder of the money, because the North Thompson Relief Associatio n had a defined mandate. They're winding up, and th ey've turned that money over to the society.

There has been tremendous benefit to the way that that minister and this Premier chose to hand the money over. I remember the Premier saying at the time: "Gov- ernment can spend a million dollars trying to adminis- ter a million dollars, and I want this money out there where it helps the people." These funds, these trusts, are similar in nature, and I believe they'll work the same way. People will find a way to stretch that money like a horse blanket and make it pay off for the con- stituents that it is meant to benefit.

That's a whole new approach — very, very differ- ent from what people have ever seen in British Colum- bia. I remember the disastrous wildfires in Salmon Arm, which preceded those in my constituency by sev- eral years. Those people never got any sort of assis- tance, anything similar to this.

Our Premier has always said that local government is the most accountable level of government, and I think that he's right. [1100] My barber, John De Cicco, is on city council — about to be re-elected, I'm sure, for his third term — and if anybody has a beef with what city council's do- ing, they sure know how to find John De Cicco. They just walk into his barbershop, whether he's cutting hair or not, and he has to listen to them. He's very dutiful in making sure that city council knows what constituents are saying.

He has his finger on the pulse and so will the kind of people that'll be administering these trusts. I know they'll get opportunities like we've had in the North Thompson Valley. The other day my directors, the elected regional district directors, said to me: "There's full employment in the North Thompson Valley." Now, we actually had a café in Clearwater that had to shut down for a little while because they couldn't find any employees, and there's an employment crunch. Everybody who knows what he's doing and wants to work in the logging in- dustry is busy.

We've made some major moves, but we made a lot of minor moves too, and all of them have helped. Each director got a fund, for example, of $7,500 per year to facilitate tourism promotion in the Clearwater area, the Barriere area and the Blue River area, and they're stretching that money — making it last, making it work. We've taken

part in beautification projects. We helped fund the purchase of a new groomer by the Wells Gray Outdoors Club, which operates some of the best nordic ski trails in British Columbia and is compet- ing for a site to entertain Olympic teams training for the 2010 Olympics. They can do that because we had some money to help them get another grant to pur- chase this state-of-the-art groomer, which they'll share all up and down the valley. I had an elderly lady approach me at the service station one day in Barriere.

She and a number of other elderly ladies had come up with a book about the heri- tage and history of Barriere and Louis Creek area — that whole end of the North Thompson Valley — but they were frightened because they had to make their payment to the publisher, and they hadn't presold enough books to do it. She said to me: "We're just a bunch of scared old ladies at this point. What are we going to do?" We loaned them the money to pay the publisher's bill.

Pretty much everybody in the Barriere– Louis Creek area bought one of their books and then bought another one to give to somebody else, and it really helped them. That's the sort of thing you can do with a fund like this. Now, that's at a very local level, and these are re- gional funds. I know there will be a lot of healthy com- petition and discussion for where this money goes. But for all of those people, it's not going to be any more of having to go cap in hand to Victoria because you need a little money to help your communities, and your com- mittees do things that obviously make sense to them.

I can't tell you, Madam Speaker, and I can't begin to tell the Premier how much people appreciate this ap- proach, because it felt bad to have to go cap in hand to Victoria, when you know, for example, that the forest industry still pays for ¹⁄₆ of everything this government — any B.C. government — funds: one of every six so- cial workers, one of every six teachers, one of every six doctors paid for by the forest industry. We have the forest industry everywhere in the interior.

People think: "Well, why should we have to beg when we have something that's worth doing?" They don't have to beg anymore when a govern- ment takes approaches like this. It's empowering com- munities, constituents and the population to do the things that make sense, instead of the old one-size-fits- all approach that used to be the consistent way that Victoria administered the money it took away from the people of the heartlands. I'm really delighted with this advance. I was thrilled when the Premier said he was going to do it, thrilled when he announced it, and I'm delighted to be a part of making it a reality.

There are all sorts of things that happen for all sorts of reasons between commu nities. One example I'm

848 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, OCTOBER 18, 2005 very sad about is what we used to call the KXA, the Kamloops Exhibition Association — beautiful build- ings on the Kamloops Indian band reserve. They've been used for several decades now to house agricul- tural affairs, a rodeo, a race track — all sorts of positive things that are really good for the rural people that I represent in their communities. The city of Kamloops contributed substantially to the operating budget for the KXA over the years.

The city of Kamloops made a decision a couple years ago that they weren't going to do that anymore, and the Kamloops Indian band is struggling to keep that centre alive. They've changed its name to the Mt. Paul Centre, and they're l ooking for assistance.

They need some bridging assistance until they get enough programs going or some changes made in that centre to fund it so they don't have to subsidize it for all the rest of us. [1105] I was very unhappy with the decision when it was made, and I expect the Kamloops Indian band will probably apply to the Southern Interior Development Initiative Trust for some assistance. I hope they'll get it, because I see that as the kind of need and opportunity that this fund will be able to meet.

It's a whole different way of doing things and ju st one of the many proofs that this government does what it says it's going to do, including empowering local governments and com- munities to do things fo r themselves, the practical things that they know need to be done — very different from our experience in the '90s.

Do you remember, Madam Speaker, in the '90s, when there were a thousand registered professional foresters working for the Ministry of Forests, living and working full-time here in Victoria — a thousand regis- tered professional foresters and zero logging going on in this area, in the ten years that I've been here? We want to work against strange situations like that shap- ing up in British Columbia. We want to have the re- sources out where they're needed and the decisions being made by practical people who understand the needs of the area that the money is meant to benefit.

This is a way of making all of that come together. I think we're all voting in favour of it. I think the opposi- tion will as well. Certainly, they've been voting in fa- v o u r o f t h e b r o t h e r a n d s i s t e r b i l l s t o t h i s o n e . I t o n l y makes sense that they would. I think this is one time when it would be really nice if there were zero criti- cisms, because this is a great leap forward for commu- nities — something that, frankly, the opposition party never would do, never did do.

I think it's nice when people can just say: "Well, there's one thing we do ap- preciate about you, government of British Columbia." I'd like to hear more of that from them, as an encour- agement to the Premier and the minister, and just be- cause it's the right thing to do. Certainly, it has my support. I want to congratulate and thank the Premier and the minister. N. Simons: I'd like to thank the member opposite, the member for Kamloops–North Thompson, for his interesting and somewhat contradictory words.

I'd like to point out, first of all, that yes, in fact, I'm in favour of Bill 8, as I'm in favour of Bill 7 and Bill 6. I believe that it's important to note, as well, that when we do speak from this side of the House, Madam Speaker, and we have constructive criticism, it shouldn't be taken in a defensive manner. It should n't be received by the members opposite as if it is yet more of the perpetua- tion of political competition here.

I would like to point out that anyone reading Han- sard will note that the first ten minutes of the member's speech were dedicated to ripping up previous gov- ernments, particularly the previous NDP government, and their supposed lack of action on such issues as straightening out roads such as Pigs Corner. Pigs Cor- ner brought to mind immediately…. It wasn't because I was looking at the opposite that I thought of Rat Port- age Hill in my constituency. Rat Portage Hill was a dangerous stretch of highway between Sechelt and Gibsons, the site of many unfortunate accidents.

Dur- ing the period of the NDP that road was widened and straightened out. I think it's a little bit disingenuous. Perhaps it was stated with tongue in cheek — I couldn't quite tell — but I believe that it was a bit of an overstatement for a point. That's fine; that's fine. I appreciate that. I, too, would prefer to look forward and look at how these bills will, in fact, benefit the communities where the money is intended to be spent.

With respect to the member opposite, I do think that the comments I'm going to make on this subject are meant to be produc- tive, forward-looking and helpful to all those con- cerned. K. Krueger: We'll see. N. Simons: That's right. It's met with a bit of skep- ticism. However, we shall soon see, in fact. That's fair enough. I do want to point out that when community groups and organizations approach government for funding, I don't believe that it really should be referred to as begging.

I don't believe that community groups and organizations, agencies and non-profit charities, when they approach government for funding, should be thought of as begging and coming with cap in hand to a government that is expecting it to make a case. [1110] I think that this is really just a redistribution of revenue to appropriate groups and projects that are beneficial to communities. I' m not sure why, automati- cally, there's an expectation that if it's not the provin- cial government providing funding for programs, it's suddenly not begging. I don't believe it's begging in any case.

I think these bills do allow for local control over funding, and I do want to congratulate the gov- ernment for pursuing this. I have only a few misgivings that I believe will probably be addressed, at least considered, brought to me by members of local government who — as the member opposite just stated, quoting the Premier —

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 18, 2005 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 849 are most responsive at the local level. I have been ap- proached in my particular constituency by three may- ors and two regional district chairs about some con- cerns they have — not concerns about the government and not concerns about anything other than a fear that perhaps the funding that is destined to be spent at the local level for the numerous projects that are included in the umbrella of these acts will become a competition between small communities. I know that in my constituency we have many communities of under 500 residents.

They're isolated communities, they're remote communities, and they will not benefit in the same way from the economic development initiatives that are going to be under- taken, for example, on northern Vancouver Island. I believe that if there is an acceptance of the fact that I'm not standing here criticizing…. I'm standing here recommending that possibly there's room for some improvement and some tweaking from this side of the House. I believe it should be taken in that vein.

If there are ways of making sure that the trusts are repre- sentative of or are of benefit to entire communities, I think that should be taken as appropriate constructive criticism. That being said, I would like to have seen more representation built into the process for first nations organizations. I know that every first nation is unique and every first nation has their own expectation of what this government will be providing for its eco- nomic development opportunities. There's no formal structure for their participation in accessing these f u n d s .

I b e l i e v e i t ' s t r u e that the regional advisory committees will be able to address those to some de- gree. I'm perhaps suggesting that it would be appro- priate to ensure somehow, maybe through whatever mechanism is available, that those interests are for- mally recognized in the act. The three bills are similar in many regards. I believe that despite the geographical differences, the local in- terests of communities will be met — unfortunately, competing with other local interests.

To me, it would seem appropriate to have the funds from the initiatives built into a longer-term, broader approach for regional economic development. I can't go back and say what previous governments did or didn't do. I wasn't a member of any previous government, and I'm just sort of looking at this in an objective fashion.

I believe that the opportunity does exist here to provide opportunities for communities, and I'm hoping they don't become mini-competitions between small towns that really do rely on each other for economic development opportunities. [1115] Another particular concern to people in my con- stituency is the prescribed areas for the purpose of the fund.

I'd like to suggest that perhaps it would be possi- ble, if the government sees fit, to include such an eco- nomic opportunity as marine infrastructure in the list of appropriate areas for funding, because marine infra- structure in many communities can become the foun- dation for economic development if it becomes a place for increased tourism, for example, or increased trade. I believe that could be an opportunity for some im- provement. If the member for Kamloops–North Thompson doesn't find my words too aggressive, perhaps he would even agree.

His coastal communities are not in need of this same kind of marine infrastructure. Per- haps I'm wrong. I have spent time in the areas he's in- dicated and, in fact, played for the Kamloops Sym- phony at one time. [Applause.] You didn't hear me play, obviously. Thank you. Community amenities of other kinds could also be included in the list of appropriate funding areas. I'm keeping my comments brief. I believe that the members opposite are correct that we are, in principle, supporting the funds.

I believe that people would like to see more commitment to ongoing funding, perhaps to ensure that that becomes an opportunity for com- munities to see forward beyond a year and two years and three years. Any econ omic development plan would be nice to have included in a larger plan for the communities. I won't go on any further. I think I have made my point. A. Horning: I'm pleased today to rise and speak to this bill.

This government committed to creating this $50 million trust as a stand-alone entity, under local control and completely free from political influence, with the goal of generating economic activity and cre- ating jobs in the southern interior. I'd like to first take this opportunity to acknowl- edge that it's a truly unprecedented and innovative move — the creation of this fund and the two other regional economic development funds in British Co- lumbia.

Sure, there have been other economic devel- opment agencies and commissions, but no other gov- ernment in B.C. history has invested in local communi- ties on a scale this big. No one has shown the confi- dence in communities and local leaders that this gov- ernment has shown by introducing this legislation. The most amazing thing about this trust fund, and the aspect that draws the most positive comments and accolades when I'm speaking to people in my riding of Kelowna–Lake Country, is the fact that it will be com- pletely in the hands of local representatives. That's right.

We're handing over $50 million and saying: "You take the money and you use it to move the economy of the southern interior forward. Use it to create jobs, to support innovation, to create opportunities. It's up to you to do." That's not all. This trust is just part of the $300 mil- lion in economic funding being distributed through three trust funds across British Columbia, each one with the goal of building our regional economies. The reason we're doing this is because we believe in the drive, the determination and the will of the people of the southern interior.

We're doing this because we know that the people in the best position to know what's good for the southern interior are the people

850 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, OCTOBER 18, 2005 who live, work and raise their families there. That's why the regional advisory committees and the board will be the manager and administrator of this $50 mil- lion fund and will be made up entirely of local repre- sentatives. This is not going to be a ship steered by the changes in the political winds blowing out of Victoria. The course will be charted right there in the southern inte- rior. Mayors, regional distri ct chairs and others will guide the use of this unprecedented trust fund and set the priorities.

Unlike the regi onal economic agencies of past governments, the Southern Interior Development Initiative Trust will not suffer from a lack of support or an overabundance of interference from Victoria. [1120] Those local representatives will have a host of eco- nomic areas they can choose to invest in, including forestry, transportation, tour ism, small business, agri- culture and more. Personally , I can imagine dozens of possibilities for these funds. The Okanagan, where I live, has opportunities aplenty.

I know that our local entrepreneurs and community leaders will be lining up to share their ideas with the newly appointed trust officials. Frankly, I can't wait to hear them. Diversity. That's a word you hear a lot these days. Everyone knows that our regional economies need to be diverse in order to we ather the ups and downs of the world markets and the whims of commerce.

The Southern Interior Development Initiative Trust fund is a tool, a tool that the local boards can use to enhance diversity in their regions to encourage ideas that move beyond the traditional economic models, that bays out the old way of doing things and encourages a fresh approach. That's one of the key aspects of this fund. It's not a flash-in-the-pan initiative. It's an enormous investment that will pay dividends for generation after generation in the southern interior.

Years from now the Southern Interior Development Initiative Trust fund will still be bearing fruit and supporting programs, projects and initiatives to diversify and grow the southern interior economy. This $50 million trust is a powerful tool and an im- pressive legacy for the residents of B.C.'s southern inte- rior. It's a wise person who recognizes their own limita- tions, and it's a wise government that can recognize when it's not in the best position to decide how best to stimulate the regional economies of the province.

For my area of Kelowna–Lake Country this trust fund will mean new jobs, economic opportunities. One of the initiatives already talked about in my area is forestry. As you know, two years ago we had a devas- tating fire. Now we can go to these funds and maybe do some cleanup and the underbrush so that we can prevent some of these things from happening. Pine beetle is starting to show up in the area. Maybe we can get that before it gets out of control. Transportation. We have areas in my riding where roads are narrow and what have you.

The idea with this fund is that now maybe they can go and have them widened basically on the basis of safety. UBC has now opened up in my area. Bike paths are something that is really needed because a lot of students will be using bikes. Tourism. Capitalize on ou r tree fruit industry, our wine industry, also our golf courses, our ski hills. Olympic opportunities. Kelowna at this present time is building a new 50-metre pool. Kamloops, I believe, has a 50-metre pool. These are some of the initiatives that can happen, and we can use these here as training fa- cilities for the Olympics.

Small business, of course, is the backbone of our local economy, so there'll be a lot of opportunity for small business to create jobs. Agriculture is one of the main industries of my area. We've developed some new varieties of cherries now so that we can compete on the world market. Before, with the types of cherries we grew, we had a two-week period. We had to com- pete with Washington State — very difficult. Now we have new cherries there that are larger. They're on the market for over a month, and now we can compete worldwide with them.

That's why we put the power to make these deci- sions in the hands of local representatives, and that's why I support the bill and the creation of the Southern Interior Development Initiative Trust. D. Routley: I rise to speak for this bill but with con- siderable trepidation about several of its contents. I will congratulate the government in investing money in our rural communities, but this money comes after several years of extreme neglect and starvation of those very same areas. Some Hon. Members: No. D. Routley: Yes. We see a good investment, but we see a much greater need.

We see the positive step of allowing the representation of local MLAs, which on Vancouver Island in particular will mean that several opposition MLAs are included in the regional advisory commit- tees. For that, I thank the government. [1125] But after almost five years now of disinvestment and neglect, of the closure of government services, of the closure of small schools, much of the infrastructure that underlies a good economy and the consistent and continued economic development of smaller communi- ties…. We need to see much more than this.

In small communities in rural British Columbia we need new opportunities, but those opportunities must be sustainable. The commitment to those opportunities must be continued. This bill, unfortunately, is a one- time investment and does not allow, or at least predict, further investment, although I do note the mechanisms for the continuation of the bodies. Therefore, I would wonder whether these bodies may serve as political funding instruments in the future. In fact, what these small communities need is a continued level of support, a continued commitment that can be leveraged and maximized to the best ad-

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 18, 2005 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 851 vantage of all of these small communities. In the recent election our NDP platform called for a similar devel- opment fund but had designated half of the forecast allowance for such a fund. If the government would reconsider that condition of this bill and allow enough funds for these projects to be half the forecast allow- ance, then we would see a co nsiderable increase in the amount of money designated to these efforts.

Also, I have concern about the structure of the di- rectors of the trust and the regional advisory commit- tees in terms of their initiation. The first directors of the trust — and in particular, the first directors of the re- gional advisory committees — are quite limited. I think we should start this process with the full contingent of representatives in all of these bodies so that the path and the vision of the committees can be well estab- lished right from the beginning. I would also point out that there will be consider- able administration costs incurred by all of the three bills.

If the funding is supposed to reach the ground, then I believe the government should definitely pro- vide enough administrative funding to ensure that the funds announced do, indeed, make it to projects. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] The scope of the sectors: forestry, transportation, tourism, mining, Olympic opportunities, small busi- ness, economic development, energy and agriculture. It's a big list, when we consider that $50 million is meant to cover an entire region, but if we're looking at economic development, perhaps the list must be broader.

Perhaps the list should be a catch-all, and per- haps that would put the amount of funding in a posi- tion of looking that much smaller. There are no limits to any particular sector or pro- ject, and in my own area on Vancouver Island we have several economic development and infrastructure pro- jects that have gone unfunded but must be undertaken in the near future in order to capitalize on their value — the Ladysmith foreshore development, marine tour- ism developments in my riding; the Vancouver Island recreational corridor projec t, which has been consid- ered in the past.

The Pacific Marine Circle Route, which was funded in the pre-election campai gn, is an example of how much money it takes to make a significant impact, since a large amount was invested — between $5 mil- lion and $8 million — but the outcomes have been very unsatisfactory. Even the local politicians who cele- brated the funding are left in dismay now, as the im- provements to the road are very limited.

It underlines the fact that the infrastructure that has gone neglected for the last four years will require a much bigger in- vestment to be brought up to standard. [1130] The chief concern I have for these bills, and this bill in particular, is that there is no designated first nations representation on the govern ing bodies. If we look to the Columbia Basin Trust, which was established by an NDP government, all subreg ions are represented and there is structured first nati ons representation on that board.

Also, the BC-Alcan Northern Development Fund Act, which establishe d the Nechako-Kitimat de- velopment fund…. There's permanent first nations representation on that body. The member for Nanaimo-Parksville mentioned that politicians in the Duncan area supported this fund because it was a strategic vision. In fact, local politi- cians rarely turn down mone y, and after having been underfunded for such a long period of time, I'm sure they will welcome this reinvestment, as insufficient as it is, with open arms and hope for a more continued and more substantial investment in their communities.

What they do see in this bill and in the mechanisms for administering it is a mechanism for continuation. Does this mean that we will receive sporadic, politi- cally motivated funding that we drop into these funds when politically advantageous, or will there be a con- tinued and sustained investment in our communities? We have seen a continued and sustained disinvest- ment in our communities for the past four years.

It will take some time to repair the damage of those years to the infrastructure of our small communities, to the viability of the small communities — their economic viability as their infrastructure has been torn apart. This bill, while begin- ning that process, does not come close to completing it. Mr. Speaker, I will vote for this bill, but I'll do so with these grave misgivings about its scope and its intent. Hon. C. Richmond: I would just like to make a few comments in support of this bill.

First of all, I would like to congratulate those who put this concept to- gether and, specifically, congratulate the Premier and the minister on a fine job. I think the concept is abso- lutely terrific. It means that the people in the small communities in the interior and elsewhere will be able to make the decisions. They will not just have a say in what is going on in their region, but they will have the say on what is going on. Unlike the members opposite, I don't see fault with this bill. In fact, I don't see anything wrong with it. To some of them, it's never enough.

The member for Nanaimo even said $50 million is not a lot of money. Well, in my book, $50 million is a lot of money. I think that the board that will be put together to run this fund will have a tremendous challenge — there's no question about it , especially as the demands for the moneys start coming in. It's going to be an excit- ing time for them, but it's not going to be easy. They will have to develop a business plan that is workable, and it will also not be easy to apportion the money on a specific basis for specific communities.

I envy them the challenge they're going to ha ve, but I don't envy some of the decisions they're going to have to make. As my colleague the member for Kamloops–North Thompson pointed out, look what can be done in his constituency with just $5 million and the things that were done when people worked together to make things happen. So $50 million is a lot of money. The topics that can be covered in this are exciting. We know the problems that the forest industry is going

852 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, OCTOBER 18, 2005 through at the moment. A lot of things are totally out of our control — like beetles; the forest fires of a couple of years ago; the softwood lumber agreement, which still hasn't come to a conc lusion; and the whole chang- ing face of the forest indust ry, not only in the interior but in the entire province. That will be a challenge for this board to deal with, because forestry is still the big engine that drives our economy. [1135] Transportation is anothe r one.

The infrastructure makes a lot of things happen in this province, not only for industry but for tourism — things like airport ex- pansions, which my community has been looking at for some time. It's very important to our area that we have our airport expanded. Maybe this is one of the topics that this board will be looking at. The concept of an inland port in our region, specifi- cally in Kamloops, is something else that I would like to see this board take a look at. Maybe they will; maybe they won't. That will be their decision.

The opportunities in tourism are virtually limitless, especially with the 2010 Olympics coming. I think a lot of thought will have to be paid to what we do to im- prove our infrastructure in tourism and to take advan- tage of the Olympics. Another industry that is thriving once again in our area is mining. The exploration dollars alone have quadrupled in the last few years. There are new mines ready to come on stream in the next little while, and there may be infrastructure required to bring some of those new mines on stream. I think that is another ex- citing thing that this board will be able to look at.

And the list goes on: small business; economic de- velopment; energy; new form s of energy; and agricul- ture, which is a most important component in our area. I think that this is a trem endous opportunity that the trust will have to develop a partnership investment with business and with various levels of government to further develop and diversify and stimulate the eco- nomic base of the southern interior. I just wanted to put my remarks on the record — that I fully support this bill. I think it's a very exciting concept.

The $50 million will go a long way to improv- ing the economy, not only in the Kamloops area but in the entire southern interior. I congratulate those who have put their name forward to be on these boards. They will work hard. They will have some tough deci- sions to make, but it will be an exciting time. Again, I thank the minister and those who put this concept to- gether. I think we're in for exciting times ahead. C.

Evans: It pleases me to rise to speak on what is really a series of bills that have to do with the creation of trust funds and boards in rural areas around the province to assist people to deal with the changes, I think, of rural and agrarian life. Some of the members here have made suggestions that tend to make me want to have a political debate, but I get it that they're just good at pushing my buttons, so I'm going to try to not respond to those partis an buttons, which is very hard for me. Partisanship is as instilled in me as is wak- ing up every morning.

But I'm going to try to avoid that because I consider this issue, this subject, what it is that we're debating here, to be hugely important in a public policy kind of way. British Columbia is organized on a colonial model; it isn't organized on a democratic model. If it was or- ganized as a democracy, we would not have decided to put the capital on an island 20 miles off the saltchuck from the rest of the citizenry. We would have put the capital in the middle, where people could get to it by riding a bus or driving a car or walking.

We organized British Columbia this way, I think, because we were following the colonial model of England when she ruled the world. [1140] British Columbia was designed on that idea — that somewhere there would be a group of smart people, and they would govern for everyone else rather than be everyone else. It may have been that we set up Brit- ish Columbia this way because we knew that we were taking this land, essentially, from first nations people.

By putting the capital down here in the lower left-hand corner and across a bunch of water, we could ensure that most of the people who historically had owned the place would not come and bother us with their wishes while we Europeanized it. But as this building got built and we formed a for- mal government, became a province and joined Can- ada, we had an opportunity to change that. At one point people thought that maybe the capital would be in New Westminster, but we liked it over here, and it turns out that our colonial relationship with our citi- zens today mirrors that earl y relationship with first nations.

Let's talk about demographics, because "colonial," of course, is a loaded word. It might make people think that I'm speaking rhetorically. But in terms of demo- graphics, the migration from rural areas to urban areas is a worldwide phenomenon, a Canadian phenome- non, and certainly a British Columbia phenomenon. My three children were raised in Winlaw, which is essentially a post office and some houses. They all live in Calgary and Vancouver, and the children of my neighbours…. This urban migration has led to the place where, unlike historic times, you can govern here without ever being elected out there.

The citizenry of the lower mainland is now so big and the populations in rural areas are so small that it is unnecessary, politically, to receive votes from people in agrarian and small com- munities. That has removed from this building, for example, farmers' caucuses in political parties. We'll remember, I think, that in 1971 the Social Credit Party, the Conservative Party, the Liberal Party and the New Democratic Party all had agrarian cau- cuses as part of their political organizations. Those have all gone away. There's nobody out there speaking f o r a g r a r i a n l i f e .

I t u s e d t o b e t h a t w h e n w e e l e c t e d a Premier, we liked him to come from a small town, maybe even run a hardware store or something like that. But how long has it been since we elected a Pre-

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 18, 2005 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 853 mier who wasn't from Vancouver? I don't think I ever worked for one. K. Krueger: Dan Miller. C. Evans: We didn't actually elect the guy. Excuse me, hon. Speaker. I didn't mean to respond to my friend over there, but he ha d a good point, and I just wanted to set him straight. Okay, so now I've explai ned the political model. Now I want to talk about the economic model. We, in this town, in this building, organize our reporting rela- tionship very badly. We collect money from Cominco in taxation.

We say, "Here's what they made," and then we ascribe that wealth to Vancouver, because it's the head office of that corporation. The logging companies th at are out there cutting trees from Fort Nelson south tend to be subsidiaries of some Vancouver corporation. So the wealth that those people earn, that is earned by working people who live in Kamloops and Fort St. John and Castlegar, is re- ported as having been earned by some Vancouver company. Our Ministry of Finance accepts that. We build our models of the gross domestic product, and it looks like the city of Vancouver is actually earning that wealth.

So we come in here, and based on who made the money or who the voters are, we respond essen- tially to urban demands. Finally, there is the evolution of the media. When we were kids, there were real editors and real publish- ers in Grand Forks, in Nelson and in Lytton. They put out real papers, and citizens had a panoply of opinions all over the landscape about political life. Today the media essentially reports our deliberations through one or two television channels al l over the province, and it is an urban perspective.

If anybody happens to read a newspaper, they're essent ially reading a newspaper owned by an urban corporation that employs an urban editorial writer, so they get an urban analysis of even the events that affect their lives. [1145] This government, like some governments in the past, has decided to attempt to deal with this consoli- dation of power — intellectual, economic and media — in urban areas by responding with trust funds. This isn't the first time. The lovely comments of some members notwithstanding, it's been attempted before.

The first time that I knew of where a Premier — I think maybe at the time he was a candidate to be Premier — talked about the need to set up some kind of new power and economic wealth distribution sys- tem with rural British Columbia was Bill Vander Zalm.

I remember when he was running to be the leader of the Social Credit Party, he talked about his vision — I'm paraphrasing, and decades have gone by and my memory's not very good — but I think he was talking about some kind of county system where school boards and regional districts might be rolled together, and there'd be a regional government and we would have a wealth-sharing relationship with that regional gov- ernment — in the north, on the north coast, in the inte- rior, in the Kootenays. I liked it.

I wasn't in that gentleman's political party, but I liked the fact that he was acknowledging that demographics and ec onomics had changed and that we had to change our relationship. This colonial system of governance had to stop. He was elected Pre- mier, and unfortunately, when he got here and civil servants took his ideas an d put them on paper and came in here and made laws, what we wound up with were regional organizations that had influence by po- litical appointment from this place. I was part of what was called the regional advisory committee in the Kootenays.

As a young person I was on the regional district. I went to those meetings, and in the first six months the meetings, where I lived, fell apart. There was a pot of money, just like we have here today. And we were divvying up who would get sewer investments and water investments and tourism in- vestments and all the things hon. members are talking about, but it didn't work. It didn't fail because the Premier was wrong. It didn't fail because we were bad people. It failed be- cause there wasn't the percep tion on the ground that we owned it.

You know, when rural people don't think something is ours, instead of behaving responsibly, we move towards parochialism. We say: "Trail shouldn't get this, and Cranbrook shouldn't get that, and it's all how well you know the Premier, and there's some kind of political fix." We assumed it was sort of Duplessis politics, and whether it was or it wasn't, we couldn't overcome that barrier and make the regional advisory committee work. So a gentleman, Wally Penner — you may know him, hon. Speaker — worked at that time as a civil servant for the Ministry of Small Business. He said, "Well, I think I can make this work.

Let me restructure this," and restruc- tured the group so that all of the people who sat on the group were chosen by the local organizations themselves. They wanted a tourism person. He said to the tourism group: "You figure out who to send to the table." They wanted a regional director. He said to the regional dis- t r i c t : " Y o u f i g u r e i t o u t . " T h e y w a n t e d s o m e b o d y f r o m municipalities. He took all the towns and said: "Pick the person who will represent the towns." It then began to work. In fact, it worked right until I came to work in this building as an MLA.

Then the gov- ernment that I worked with and for ended the regional advisory committee in the Kootenays — I think because it was an anomaly, because it was working differently than all the other ones, and it's exceedingly difficult in provincial politics to have one thing that operates differ- ently than other things. So the regional advisory com- mittee that worked, the only one that I know of in British Columbia, ceased to exist — as had the others already. I think if we really wanted to end the colonial sys- tem of governance and do this thing differently, we could learn from historical examples.

We could learn from this gentleman, Wally Penner, who restructured it to say that local people will believe in it if they get to pick who sits there.

854 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, OCTOBER 18, 2005 Here's another example — in history. This is not brand new. The Columbia Basin Trust. We created an institution in this building.

Every single person in every single political party, save one, voted for the creation of the Columbia Basin Trust. [1150] Following what we had learned from Bill Vander Zalm's efforts, the board was structured so that there were 18 people — enough people so that the little towns and villages all along the drainage, from Golden south to the United States and from the Alberta border west to Castle- gar, could send enough people that they could begin to develop a relationship, a conversation, even a culture. It worked, because of the 18 people, 12 of them were self-selected by the people of the region.

They knew that they didn't have to lobby or make some kind of relationship with the government in order to achieve their objectives with the funds. The second thing that we learned from the trust is that there was an amount of money allotted — 40 mil- lion bucks, $47 million, $41 million; I forget exactly — to the trust to invest in the region. Then there were separate investments that had to do with hydroelectric power and the water. What we've seen is that the citi- zens of the region understand that part of the trust that is related to the natural resources and their wealth creation capacity inside the basin.

They don't under- stand so well that part which is perceived to be $40 million for a board to just invest somehow. If we learned from Bill Vander Zalm, we'd say: "The board has to be self-selected by the region." If we learned from what worked in the trust, we'd say: "It ought to be connected to the wealth creation capacity of the natural resources." Here are some examples.

When we were trying to de- cide what to do with the Coquihalla and we thought about selling it to some people in Germany or having it run in Victoria, we could have cut some middle ground and given it to the people of the Okanagan and said: "It's your highway. You decide what the fare will be. You collect half of it and keep it. You create a trust with the Coquihalla." We have this big debate about offshore oil. Should we or shouldn't we drill off the Charlottes? What if we said, for starters, that if we ever do, half the wealth would accrue to that trust? What if we did the same with timber?

There are people who think — I have met these people — that the way we manage timber in the prov- ince constitutes, essentially, plunder instead of people in the region getting to make their own decisions. I would argue that there' s a third thing that we might learn from what we have already tried — people on both sides here.

Instead of just putting some money in a bucket and saying, "Okay, give it out till it's gone, and then we politicians, based on some electoral strat- egy, will decide whether or not to replenish the bucket," we tie natural resources to that wealth, so the local people can make money forever. To the degree that they can husband those resources, they will last for the grandchildren and the grea t-grandchildren. If they expend them in a hurry and ca sh them in, there will be no farm in the future. We can understand that out on the land.

I think that given the demographics, the media and the economic control that the head office structure in Vancouver has and the political control that Victoria has, unless we do those things, our generation of politicians will fail to deal with the urbanization of this place, of this province, and future generations will have a worse prob- lem to represent rural people than we at present have. All of these trusts that are being created in this room — and I've heard people from both sides say they're going to vote for them — are a good idea. They were a good idea when Mi ke Harcourt did it.

They were a good idea when Bill Vander Zalm did it. They were a good idea probably 20 years earlier when Bill Bennett Sr. tried to accomplish something along the same lines. You'll remember that he created regional districts, I think, along the lines of attempting to redis- tribute power and wealth — certainly government power — in British Columbia. It's still a good idea, and everybody's going to vote for it, but what we're doing is going back…. I'm going to try and use some really nice word that isn't "pork- barrel." Let's see. What kind of…? This is a largesse idea.

N a t i v e p e o p l e h a v e b e e n k i n d o f s a y i n g : " W e l f a r e doesn't work. We don't really want you to give us money. We want you to give us land

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H1018am-07
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H1018am 07
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	4694c3c07f974a72da787452542119833478662a

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