Volume XL Wednesday Province of Newfoundland FORTIETH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND Fourth Session VERBATIM REPORT (Hansard) Speaker: Honourable P.J. McNicholas Number 34 11 May 1988 i ~ II r f

The House met at. 3:00 p.rn . 1'-iR. SPEAKER (McN:i chola.§..l: Order, pl.er,1se! Statements by Ministers .Q.B....: COLLINS : Mr. SpeakE,r. MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the M:inister of Health. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, I have a statement to rna k e , b u t. j u s t beforE! I d o t hat. , perhaps I could refer to a headline in The Eveninq Telegram. I IAJas half th :ink'ing of rising on a point of privilege on this, but I tMi.ll not r:l'i.gni.fy :Lt IJJi th that a ttE! n tion.

The headl j nE! says, 'BE!d closurE~s bl.r.·HTied ~ 7 or woman's death. ' NoiJJ that headline' is wrong. lt shotjl.d haVE! be(;!n, 'Bed closures ir-responsibly blamed for woman's deaU1. ' Mr . Speaker, I wish to table a statement made this morning by the Exocut"i.VE! Direclor of the GE,neral. Hospital IJJi th respect to a letter S('!l'lt to HIE! by Mrs. Car'rneli.ta RoiAJS e 11 . I might say, Mr. Speake'r, that th :is lettCH' was rnentionE: 1d i.n l:: he House yesterday. NoiJJ, up to that tirnE', I had not SE!E!n the letter.

I made inquiries, and thE! letter arriVE!d in rny office at approximateJ.y 3:30 yesterday afternoon, that is after I had left for the House. Mrs . Dobbin, the Executive Dirnect:or at t:he Hr.:1al.th Scir.:'nCE! ComplE!X, states: 'The cas r.:1 initial oF Mrs. invE,stigation of Gladys Parson !; ' - I: hE! and L 17 7 4· May 11, 1988 Vol XL. I hesitate to mention patient's narnf:!s, but: 'i.n c"'c-t.ual fact, t.hE!SE! names have bE!E!n bandied around not by me and noL by RnyonE' on Lhis side; these names have been band . i.(~d ar-ound i.n ·t.lri.s.

HouSE!, which I think is a · little bit disgracE~f11l, so I havr-.:1 1:o montion the namE! noiAJ to put :it into cont.oxt : "ThE! initial inve,stigation of the case . of Mrs. Gladys Parsons indicates that this lady 1.uas sE•E!n in the Emergency Department, April 6, 1988 but that the attending physician did not consider she needed to be admitted and consequently, she was discharged . An appointment was made for her to see two specialisl'.s in the clinics thE! next day. One of thE!SE! cl.i.rdcs was cc:uJcellE!d but Mrs. P a r s o n s d i d s E!

E! a s fJ "' c i a 1 :i. s t '"'' h o di.d not rr:1quc;,st a bE!d for' admission. There lJ.JE!N! bE,d s avai.l.abl.c,1 fo1n E!TnEH'9E!ncy admis~dons on both days. Mrs. Parsons' subsequt::,nt admission was based on syrnploms oUHH' thiHl those which she presented on April 6 • II NOIAJ, Mr.

Spr..:1t:tk~::1r, thcct part. of the~' statement answers tflE! out1andish and i.rrespon s ibl.l;! t:~ll.c-:1gaU.on s that were brought forward in this House y(,1St.erday, and T fr:1l t. tha 1~. it IAJas necessary to go back and get a stat.c;,rnent from the Executive Director of the hospitaJ. it.se,J.f to r(,1fut.e those totally er-ronc~ous and irresponsib1e aJ.legations. Min. SpE!aker, just 1E!t mE! makE! onE! furthE!r point htlre. As I say, I di.d not re,ceive the J.ettE'r unU.J. sometime after it was mentioned in this House . I had not SE'E!I'l thE• l.E!Lt.('!r'.

Th(;!Y'(,1 'i.s anot:hor ' rnernbc':!r of this Hoi~SE! IAJho also reced.VE!d a 1. e t t:c,1 r. That. rr!(,11TII:HH', 1..11ho i. s t: hE! No. 34 R1774 . ~--

member for Menihek (Mr. FemJJick), subsequently came to rne and said t.hat. when he receivr..~d the letter, before doing anything he went back to the Health Scienc(:1S Complex to get further information. Now, I take gr(:1at. pleasure "i.n knocking the NDP, because I think their ideological policies would · be ruinous for this Province. Nevertheless, I want to give credit where credit is due. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, heat~! ... _ DR.

COLLtNS : The han. the member for Menihek ac t.:ed hono1~rabl.y r'\nd n1spons.i.bl.y and he subsequently came to me and he said, I a111 not going to bring t hi s rna t u~ r up, in vi etAJ of thE! subsequent information I obtained. Mr. Speaker, T also IAJi~>h to point out that the allegations madE! in the letter, that is the letter from the relative of the unfortunate Mrs. Gladys Parsons, to the effect that beds had been cloSE!d at the Heiilt.h Sciences CE!ntre to correspondingly opE!n beds at the Regional Health Car·e CentrE! on thE! Burin Peninsula is totally false.

An additional amount of $6 million has been provided to operate the new hospital in Burin which is sched1~lE!d t.o opE!n Ul"is Fc:lll. . The General Hospital budget, that is the Health Sciences budgel, has bE! EHI i n c rea s e d 1: hi s y ear no t decr·eased has bec:1r1 i . ncrc-:~r.lsHd ... and there has been no diversion of f'unds ft"om l::he budgot of t:he General Hospital to the new hospital 1n Burin. Mr. Sp~)ai<E!r, r wo1lld hopE! that h"i.s IJJould put this matter i:o rest and t.hat. sitnt1c:tr· irr·~:!sponsibl o acti.on JJJi11 not take:1 plaCE! in this House aga:i.n. L.177S May 11, 1988 Vol XL SOMF. HON.

MEMB~RS: Resign, boy. Resign! MR. SPEAKER: Order, ph1ase! Order·, please! MR. EFFORD: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon . the:1 membE:1r for Port de Grave. MR. EFFORD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . MR. F.FFORD: Mr. Speaker, I want to make two po··i.n'l:.s Jn rc~sponse lo IAJhat.: l':he ministE!r said. My first point is he:1 rn;:·ldE! referoncc;! l':o t.he:1 hon . Leader of the NDP and the fact l:hal.: he had consull:.r:!d t .. d.l:.h the MinistE!r of Health. I wondE!r hoiAJ he di.d that, IAJhC:1n hE! did not hi'I.VE! a copy of the letter before the House opened? I find that very distasteful. MR. REID : He had a copy .

MR . SPEAKER: Order, please!! ~B_._EFFORD: M r . S p 1::1 a I< E! r· , i r t h c;! 1'-h n :i s t e r· o f Health had read the last paragraph of the lettc;!r from Mrs . Car·mel.:i. t.a RotAJseJ.J., I think that would havE! be(:111 good c,1nough For t:hc,1 rn"i.n·.ist:E!r to at least be concerned aboul: l':he l.ss11c:! LhE! FaJ'Jii.ly L•.Jas l: rying t.o arrive at. It is not an jssue l:.ha1.: has only bt:!Otl qu(!St.ionc;!d in the House of Assembly yesterday. Tl·l(:H'f:! IAWrE! no all.(~~F'Ili. ow; rnade by a polittcian to ged: po1i.t:i .c a1 po·ints. SOME HON. MEMBERS: No? No? No. 34. R177S

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please1! MR. FFFOIW : Mr . Speakr::1r, we presente1d a copy of a l e t ttH' to t h 8 h o n . 1': h 8 Mjnister of Health that, as far as tAJe 1Atc,1 r e con c r::1 r ned , he h i'H~ received, and it was a letter written by a family. No one can bring back somebody fl"otn the dr::1ad. That is not the point of all this, nor is it the poJ.nt the family is rnak'.ing. The point being made is that something should be done to prevent a simiJ.ar incident happe!tling in the future. There is absolutely no que1stion, Mr.

Speaker, that we ar·e aware, as is every individual tn this Province, · of the situation at all hospitals, not only the Health Sciences Complex, that bed closures - DR. COLLINS: A point of order, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER : Order, please! A point of ordc,1r, the hon. l:he Minister of Health. DR. COLLTNS: My undE1rstanding is that aftE1r' a Ministerial Statement the 0 p position can comment , but it is not a matter for debate or a r g urn en t ; it has to be a co rnrn en t that is appropriate on the substance of the statement.

I suggest that the hon. rnr::Hnbc;1r' :is getting into a1ngurnent, bri.nging in spurious points trying to cov<.;!r up thE! irresponsible acU.ons that he took yesterday, and I think he is out of ordE1r. MR. EFFORD : To that point of or·der, Mr . Speaker. Ll776 May 11, 1988 Vol XL MR. SPFAKF.:R: To that point of order, the hon . the rnc,11r1I:H1 r for· Po r· t. de Gr· avE! . MR. EFFORD: Mr. Speaker, !:he.;! hon. I.: he M:in:i.s t:er· of Hea1th ts obviously hurU.ng on 1":. h i s 'i. s s u o , t:·\ n d h E:1 .1. s 1.: r y i n g t. o USE! up thE! time I haVE! l:o rE1spond to his statement.

It is not irresponsible for the Health critic in the House of AssE1mbly to bring forth ccli'ICE!rns of the people of th:i.s Province. We dJ.d not drE1am Uds up. It is fact . Mr. Speaker, what we are sayJ.ng is that the Minister of Health should do the job he was appointed by CabinE1t to do; look after the medical concerns of this Province and not to be irresponsible '.in his job - prote c t the people of this Province. MR. SPEAKER : Order, plc~as e! MR. FENWICK: Mr. SpeakE!r. MR . SPEAKER : To 1-:he po:i.nt of order, l::h(:! han . the member for Menihek. MR. FEN~HCK : Oh, not to the point of or·der·, Mr· .

Sp(~akc,1r. MR. SPEAKER: To that point of order. Hon . members !<now full well that c o rnrn E! n t s o n M i rd. s t E! r i a 1 S t a t E:~ mE! n t s should be confined to the statNnents. The hon. mE1mber' s U.rnE1 has elapsE1d . I IAd.ll recogntze !:: he hon . the member for Menihek. MR. FENWICK : Mr. SpeakE!r, the unfortunate par· 'I: a.bout il:. i.s thE1rc,1 is a cr·-Ls:is :in No. 34 R1776

the health care system and, unfortunately, I guess the word is 1 irresponsible 1 accusations like this will weaken the effort to try and get the gouc.;!rnmE!nt. to respond to it. Just to go back a second on it, we received a copy of Mrs. Rou.JSE!ll1 s letter on Monday evening - that is two days ago - and we had a chance Yl':1sterday morning to call Mrs. Rowsell twice, in St. Lawrence, in order to get the names of the doctors involVE!d.

We then checked with the doctors involved, although they u.1ere not available, and later were able to tRlk to L u c y Do b b i n , t h e A d rrr.i n i s t r a t o r of the hospital, and get what was going on. She got back to us just before three o 1 clock, when Qu~1stion Period started yesterday, and informed us that the charts that she was able to consult, because she hctd not gotten in touch with the doctors up to that: point, indicated that it was a considerably different story from that which Mrs. RotA.Jsell, I think quite legitimately, put forward in her letter .

At that point, we felt it would be irresponsible to use the information tA.Jhen we did not have enough information to make sure t h a t t: he t hi n g wo tJ 1 d s t i c k . The problem now is that the next headline will say it was not a case of bed shortages, but we knotAI therr:1 ar't::1 shortages, and any t:hing tht'l.t dE,tr·acts from the sE•rtotJsnE!SS of the sit.:uat.ion is a s·i.cf~1 :issue that should not be brought up. Mr. Speaker, tAle arE! a bit d 'i. S d p f>O ·i. n 1:: E! d , bE!

C C'IIJ S e 1.~1(:1 f e 11: !-. h R t we had been as r·t:~sponsible as we p o s s i. b :l l. i. 1: y c o u J. d o n l:: hi. !; ~ituation, and irresponsible attacks like this just serve to discredit l:he en ·U.rE:1 HouSE! and thE! Ll'/77 May 11 , 19 H 8 Vol. XL kind of oppos.iti.on t·.hat shoul.d bt:1 put in place to make sure that we get the kind of health services we dE!SE!rVe. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker. MR . SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Fisheries. MR. RIDEOUT: Mr.

Spt1akE!r, c\S you and all hon. members of this House are no doubt atAiiH'e, t.nH:f'i.t.iondlly NeiAJfoundland fish products have been exported fl~om t:hJs Prov:i.ncc;, "i.n a pr'illliH'Y state. It has br:'E'n l:hE! position of l:hf~ govc,)J~nrnc:! nt. to pr'oJnotc'! and encouragE! the secondary pr·ocessin~J of o 1.1 r· f i. s h p r· o d u c t s h c;, r c:' i. n l-.: h E• Province in order to cr'E!atE! mor'E! F11ll. Lime jobs, irnpr·ovr:1 t:hr:' econorrric rE,turns t.o thE! industry, increase the level of industrtal tE,chnology and E!XtE,nd thE! operating season of many of our fishing facilities.

My departrnE,nt remains committed to these principles and through our secondary processing and by-product development programme, tAJe have inc rt:1a s c:'d our efforts ov E! r the last two years to promote more vt.due added pr-ocessing and the further utilization of fish by-products in this Province. T n k e e p i n g tAd. 1: h t lrL s p o 1 :i. c y , I a rn extremely pleased to announce t:od<.~y that:. my dc:q:>art.ment has recently awarded a $30,000 grant to Cdnpolar Incorporated For the fabrication of a commerical productton protot.yp<:1 ITI"i.ncc:! u1asher· urd t.

This unit wiLl. be ins1·.rumf~nla1 ·tn rc,'COVC'!r'·'i.nq a salable product from fish bones 8nd collctrboncs and will provide a very valuable tool for the full No. 34 Rl'77'7

uJ.tilization of Newfoundland fish products. This unit which was developed by Canpolar IncorporatE!d IAr:i.ll pr·ovide t:he pr·occ,~ssi.ng industry with a ~ash system for c l E:! i'.l n J n g f r· i:·\ me rn "i. n c e IJJ h "i. c h c d n incrE!asr:~ pJ.ant output by as much as 5 per cent to 15 per cenl. Mr. ~:)pE:~akc;!r, thi.s gover·nrnent remains fir·rn i.n our commi tmE:Hlt. to fully support SC'!Condr.H'Y proc(~ss'i.ng inJtiatives and various othE!r seafood processing developments throughout the Province.

This leve1 of our commitment has resulted in t:he Department of Fisher·ir:~s spencJ-Lng in excc,~ss of $2 million in this area over the past tl.o~JO YEo!clrS. A lar·ge amount of money has also been invested in research and dE:welopmc;!nt. wor·k by various other government departments and institutions. Let In(.'! as sun~ you that we will continue to support this very important sector· of our fishing indust:ry and wor·k tot.~oJards the full utilization of our fishing resource for the benefit of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hE!ar! MR. W. CARTER : Mr·. SpE~akE!In, MR.

SPEAKER : The hon. the for T!Ari 11 i. n g a 1-. C'! . MR. W. CARTEr~: ~- Speak-E!r, we, of course, weJ.come any initiative on the part of the government to encourage secondary processing in the ProvinCE!. Our only rE!grE!t is that there is not enough betng done, and the amount of money being spent on explor·ing t.o~Jays i'Hld m~HHJS L1778 May 11, 1988 Vol XL of getting involved in secondary processing is too small.. Mr·. ~3pE~aiUH', t thtnk most Newfoundlanders will agree that we rn u s t L I" y a n cl 1:\ c h i c;! lJ ~'! Cl g r· c,~ a t:: E! r utilization of our fishery.

By t·: hr.~t T mo<.·\l'l, :in l:(:'rms of yi.E'!ld from fish landed. I have been amazc;!d, ovE:!In Lho yoc1rs, to lPi'H'I1 that in Newfoundland, for example, i:.he y · ic,~J.d From f"i.sh landc,,d in thE:' Prov~nce is probably still considerably less than 60 pE:~ r c C:Hlt .

In other IJ.JOind s, for every 100 pounds oF f·ish caught., thE!re is more than SO pE:H'CE!nt of 1:. h a l prod u c t d u m p e d . 0 F c o lH' s E! , we all know now that with fish bcO!ing scarce,~ and tAdth Uw r·esource becoming depleted, as it 1s, we can ill afford the luxury of throwing away such a largE! amount of fish which could be utilized and put into an edible product. Mr.

Speaker, if one were to rc,~al.ize \)Jha1: i.t mE:~ans to the fishing industry and to the economy of N(~wfoundland gc->.ner·ally, if the yield from our catches could be "i.ncreased by 5 to 15 percent, it would have a very worthwhile effect on the industry. Mr. SpE!al<er, again tJ.Je IAJE!lcomc,~ this <~nnouncc~rnont . W(~ iH'e only sor·r·y that more is not being done by the go v c;! r· n m t:! n t. to c,~ n c o u r· c:·1 g E! s (! con d i'~ r y processing.

Those of us on Hlis s i. d e b e 1. i. c,, v c,~ f i. r ml. y .:L n 1:: h e proposition that the future of rt.II''Eil NeiAJfound1and dE~PEHlds 1c.H'gEd.y on our ability to properly managE! and develop the fishery. Of course, as long as we are exporting millions of pounds of fish out of this Province - MR. SPEAI<ER: Or·der, ph~aSE!! MR. L'll. CARTER: No. 3 4- Rl778 ~ ~ .. :.~ .... --

In conclus'.i.on, Mr . Speal«~r _ .. tn a rat.~.J state then, of course, wc-:1 are not gwl7.t.-i.ng thf:! maxi ITII.IITI berwft L from that industry. Again, Mr. Speaker, we support this and we would ask the government to do more in that regard. MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the member for Menihek. MR. FENWICK: Mr. Speaker, the one comment. I think I should rnake about this is that we had better do this now; we had better start giving the grants and the support to the secondary processing industries now.

Beca1.1Se I tlri.nk that a $~0, 000 grant has to be considE!Y'E!d a SLJbsidicii"Y no mr.lti::E!r t•.Jh:i.ch IAJi'\Y i.l:: J :, sl:i.ced . And, a s we know, tJnder t.hc-:1 FrE:1E! Tr·;:·ldf:! Agr·e,,r~JTwnl:: tl'ld 'l: I•IE! at"e entE:1ring into, subsidies L~dll b f:! C\ n d I" e a 1.11 h :i. c h p o o p 1 e IAJ.i. l. 1. l o o k at VC.:11"Y str·ongly in l7.erms of irnpos-Lng countE!rVC\i ls. The mj nister· even mentions Lue have $2 rni.ll .. ion IAJOrl::h of subsidi.os in th J s a r· e a i n t. he 1 as t c o u p 1 e of y ear s , and that is great.

The prob 1 em is, how a rH 1.1.1e going to continue to do that when we have given up those regional development levers that we currently have and are currently working with? So, I think, Mr. Speaker, this is an example of the->. kinds of things we have to bE! VE!ry carefuJ. about.

It. :is the k:ind of way we would J.ike to develop our in d u s try . b u t I f.l r g tJ e , and I continue to argue, that we are foolish to get into this free trade deal when those kinds of development strategies will no longer be possible, or, if thE:1Y i!lr ' e,1 p o s s t b J. e;! , 1.1Ji. 11 e n d 1 1 p lAd 1.: h countE:H'vailing duties coming from i". h (~ Arne,, ric d n s on 1.~1h Cl t f:! lJ c;! r ~~JC:! export. Ll779 May 11, 1988 Vol XL MR. WtNDSOR: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Tht:1 hon. thf~ Mi.niste->.r of Finance . MR. WINDSOR: Mr.

Speaker, I arn pl.E!aSE!d today to announce jointly with rny colleague, the Minister of Environment. (Mr . Russell), the awardjng of a contract for clearing the right-of-way on the nE!W transmission inte!rtie to Fogo i:Hld Ch<:itnge Islands. The contract valued at $47,000 is awarded to MEC Construction of St.. John 1 s, the lowest of six tenders received. MEC Construction has advised Newfoundl.i:lnd i:'lnd Labr·ddor Hydr·o that they will be moving to lhe r:~ r oct :i n t h 0. no x t IAH:! o k or· s o and that JJ.Jork on thE! project is sch<;!cllll.E!d l.:o commence irniTIE:1diat.ely.

The projt:~ct involvE:'S l.:hc clectring of R rtght ·of-way for a 69 KV transmission line from the R o y d 1 s Co lJ c d r· f~ a f o r· i:l p p r· o x :i. rna t. e 1 y twenty kilometers to Farewell Hesd. The project also provides for clearing the right-of- .. way for· a distribution line for a short distance in the Farewell Head area and across the South end of Change I sJ and s. The work is s chE!dUlE!d t.o be completed by the end of June and will provide sorne eight jobs . MR. WELLS : Mr . Speaker. MR . SPEAKER: ThE! han. the Lead e r of th e Opposit. :ion . MR. WELLS: Mr.

Speaker, this is, I understand f1"om l.: hf~ tni.l'l'i.si:CH', thf~ fir·st. contract to car·r·y out th~: ! project:, r'11'lnOtlnCe~d e~r:-1r·J.:i . OI" by l.:hn rn:i.n .. i.st."!r', to provide an intertie to Fogo t~;J.;:uH~ Find Chango Tslr:-1nds. A~; 1~1e,~ No. 34 R1779

'indicated earJ.i~~r, .it .is a we1corne announcement. We arE! glad it is occurring, and I hr:lve no doubt the people of Fogo IsJ.and and Change Islands will be very happy too. MR. SPEAKER : T he han. the Minister of Environmco!nt and Lands. MR . RU~->SELL : Mr. Speake!", it is with pleasure l::hc•1l T <.HHlOIHlCt=! i:.oday l:.hc~ ai~.JiH'd of a contrac-t l:o Century ConstJ"uction Inc., a NE~IAJfOIIndl.and fi.i"m, fcH' 1-:.ho clean up of Polychlorinated BO'Lpi·Hwyl ( PCBs) lo~.Ji'ls r·.os i'lt Uw former USAF radar site near Cartwright, in Labrador.

Th.is final phase of site restoration of the former USAF radar facility in Labrador will. allow thE! reside!nts of cartwright to r·c->.st easier and wi11 g'.ive the residents of Labrador in general peace of rnind .in knowing that all known sitE!S IA.IhE!rE! there had been PCB contamination have been cleaned up. The cost of thts work is $4-84,920, IAJhi.ch reprc:~sented the lot.~.Jest of ten bids, and ·the job t.~.d.ll. be ovt~rsE~en by the,~ BAf. Group as the project managers for the departmc,~n l7. . Wor·k tAd l.J. commc;!ncr,~ shortly with a projected finish date of early Fall..

F 'i. ncd.J.y, I IAJOIIJ.d noi:.C'! 1.:hRt the~ ctiAICII"cl:j ng of this contract. IA.IilJ. also assi . sl -.i.n tho C:!VEHlt.:ual. establtshruent . of a nel.AJ contractor in this specialiLed field of hazardous waste cleanup. Mr. Spc,~al<c,1r, T t.~Janl·: l:o dssurE:' thi.s hon. House that, as in the past, rny dc->.partm~~nt lAd 1.1 cont.:i.ntH'! to make every effort to preSE!rve and protect our environment for prE!Sent and futurE! gE!nE!rations of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. Ll '7 80 May 11, 19H8 Uo 1 X I_ SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. SIMMONS: Mr . SpeakE!r. MR . SPEAKER: The hon.

UH~ ITIC:~Iflb(~r for· FortunE! - HE! r·mi tag E!. MR. SIMMONS : Mr. Speaker, lo~.Je, on this s :i d('!, h i'llJ e no l: s o c,~ n i'l s I~'" t·. c~ m c~ n t: . MR. RUSSELL: Mr. Spec~l<er·, I hate ·l:o intE•r-rupL i::he hon . g(,~n1:l.c:~ rnr'1n. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. minister. MR. RUSSELL: T sent a copy over mE!rnber about an hour ago. MR. SIMMONS: ---· --Yes. Yes. AN HON. MEMBER : to t.:hE! and a hon. haJ.f Completely disorganized . MR. SIMMONS: No; nobody on this sidE! appears t:o h a tJ c,~ i. 1-.~ • T r:·1 rn s u r E! t h c1 t · i. s probably the rnost world-shattering n l:!

I~J s t h r,~ h o n . g o n t J. o m c;! n h H tJ r,, h o a I" d all day and so tht>y can be amu SE! d, b 111: I!J e h i'l v c,, n o t s C:' e n i. t . SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR . SPEAKER : 0 r d cH' , p 1 E:! a s c,~ ! MR. SIMMONS: Mr. ~'lpE:~akEH', lAJe IA.IE ~ lcomc,~ any initiative on the part of this admirdstrc:~t.ion to addr'E:'SS propE~rly the PCB issue, in this case in Labrador. Outside'! of that, Mr. Speaker, therE! is not too rnuch I No. 34 R1780

can say by way of a detailed r e s p o n s (~ 't. o 1- h f;! s t c1 t om o n t , e:1 x c (~ p t on the general subjc,~ct of PCBs I g 'i. tH! t h C:! m-L n--i. s bH' no U . c r~ t h <:d: fairJy soon I shall be raising IAJi 1:: h h:i.rn a PCB iss uc->. 'i. n dnot her an~a of the Prouince, on thE:~ IsJ.and, ·in which the d!:~pcn·t.me:1nt.' s jnuoluement might haue been less complimentary than was the case with the Labrador onE! that he has reported in the House. In a day or so , I s h a 11 raise with him, in this ChambE!r, an inttiatiue - MR. HODDER : Mr. Speaker, his time is up. MR. TOBIN: Hls time is up, Mr .

Speaker . MR. SPEAJ<FR: Or·d(::!r, please! The han. mr:11Tlbc:!r has i:he fJ.oor· . MR. STMMONS: I giue:1 the-rnin:ister· notice - MR. HODDER: He 'i. s tell< i. n g i.-l J. on g c->. r U . me to do it than Steue. MR . SPEAI<ER: Order, please! MR. SIMMONS: I giue notice that I shall be r·aising tAd.th the:1 Minister· an issue'! of the handling of a discouery of PCBs on the Island. T do not think I need to say more. I belieue the gentleman from Port au Port knows exactly what I am talking <:~bout., so perhaps !:'.he'! t.wo of them would get together. MR . SPFAI<F.R : 0 r c;lc,~ r , p 1. e a s c,~ !

Thc,1 hon. l::hr,1 membor· For· ~t. John 1 :; Ll781 May 11, 1988 VoJ. XL East. Mf~. LONG: fF1 "' n !< y o u , M r· . S p (~ .~ k E! r . M r· . Speaker, we, like the people in CarhAwi.ght Tam Stjr·e, IAH>.J.cornE! l:. he announcement by ti1E! min:istE!r thc:1t Rt last l·:.he:1r·e -L s a proqraiTirn<'! to clean up the PCBs in the area. ButT r:un di.sappoinl::fH:f thi:'.lt l:.hG!re are some refE!rE!nCE!S in the minister's statement which beg furt.her qUE!Stions. One, rna:.i.n1y, IAJould be tJJherc,1 ar·e thE! PCBs going?

If they are bejng rnoued to the site in Goose Bay, then I wo u 1 d s u g g e s t t hat t hE! p E! o p J e• i. n CarttAJright, i.'IS the->. m:inj.stE!r' says, might sleE!p easier, but it :.i.s nol: go-Lng l:o be i'HlY gr·<~dt comfor· L t.o the peoplE! in Goose Bay to know that Lhey are going Lo get additional PCBs to what they already have in the:ir ctred.

I am also intrigued to note in Lhe rn:i.nisi~E! r·'s !>Lal~ O iflenf: l:ht'lt hr'! says 'This will assist in the:' E!UE!ntual osl·:dbl. · i.shrnc,~nt: of a nf~IJ,J conf:r·ac'i':or in the specialized Field of h a z "'r do 11 s IAJa s 1: E:1 c 1 c~ a 111.1 p . 1 r 1.1.10 ul d hope that at some Further point Lhe lTd. ni !; t<c1r m:i.g h t Jnc:ll< f:! a furt ht:H' statement as to IAJhat: is :i.n t:h'.Ls establishment of a specialized Field of hazardous waste clean up, L·H~ c a u s ~!

T r.-1 m s 1.1 r· e , M r· . 5 p E! i:'.l b'! r , that the issue of cleaning up waste sites that are throughout the Prouince, and arE! not: dE!aJ. :i.ng with just PCBs, is sornE!thing that is going to concern the rrdn'islE!r dnd, i.ndeed, all. oF I: I'H'! Pr·ou t ncr:• for some tirne to come. I look forward to rE!CE!iuing fr·orn the min"i.s 1-.c,~r fur·t.hPr' 'infor·tnati.on about the Enuironrnent DE!par·tm<:!nt 1 s effor·ts t o dc:H:l1 t•.ri. l:h t:hc->. tAJholE! issue of waste cleanup and J.ook ForiAkH'd i:o sorne:1 posil:'iUE! deuelopmE:Hlts in tE!rms of applyJ.ng now technology and deuol.oping No, 34 R1781

speciali.zed exactly thE!Se contractors purposes. you, Mr. Speake!". MR. SPEAKER: for Thank At this stage, I v.JOuld likE! to welcome quite;! a large,~ n1.1mbc,!r' of students and their teachers to the gallc~ric;!s. F·i.rst of all, thtH'e c'lre ten students, Grades Vl, Vll, Vlll i:'lnd lX, IAJ'"i.'l:·.h Lhc:~ i. r tc:~dcht~r ~'lldynn Smith, from St. John Fisher and fhomi:·lS Mor·r,~ ~3chool. in Pol.:i.1: Fortn. SOME HO~. MEMBERS : ~ · lear·, heal"! MR.

SPF.AKFR : T would like to welcome ti.•J c;! n t y ·-f i. v ~~ G r' i'l d o X s t 11 d ~=! n t. ~; f I" o rn Little Flower Academy, Vancouver, r:Hl d t lA! o n t. y - f i v ~~ G r· ct d e X s t. u d e n t s from Holy Heart of Mar·y, with their two chaperons. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: And I lAJOUld like Grades Vlll and their teacher (INTERFERENCE ON to IA!elcomc,~ eighty lX students with Lloyd Taylor TAPE). SOME HON. MEMRERS: Hear, h~~c1r! Oral Questions MR. OF.CI<f::R: Mr·. Sp~~akel". MR. SPFAI<FR : The~ hon. tho mfHni:H=!l" For· tJw S t·.rd·i . l:. of BE:~lh1 IslE!. .

M R ..:__Q E C I< E._~ : Mr·. Speaker, my questi.on is to thE! hon. the Minister of Education (Mr. Hearn). The Throne Speech rnade:1 referc-?.ncc;! to thE! gov~H'nrnent: 1 s L1782 May ll, 1988 Vol XL plan to undertake a full review of all issues involved in funding For elementary and secondary education. Would the minister expl.i.d.n to the Housc:1 t•Jhat fo1"m this review will take? Has it ctlr(:~f.ldy s'l.:i'll"l:.r:1d? And J.•Jhc,1n IAJ.il1 ·it re!port? MR. HEARN: Mr . s p c:H'l bH' . MR . SPEAKER : The hon. the Minister of Education . MR. HEARN : Mr·. SpE:1ab~i", I thank thE! hon . rn n rn b r;!

I" F o r' h 'i. s q 1 1 f~ s t i o n . T s h o u 1 d have called hirn, bE!CausE:~ I a1n not: s 1.11" o lA! h E! t". h f'! r h e k n ~=! lA! h E! h a cl studE!nts from his district in. I r:lTJI SI.II"P ki101AJi. ng i:.hr.:d :. t.hf:!y dl"(;! l"l(!I"E! he took advantage of thE! sit:ucd:ion to get on his feet and a s k a question. I would lj.ke! to advisE! hirn that the Thr·one Sp(;!(,1Ch did announcr;! a full review. Hon. mE!rnber·s for· some time now have been talking about educational funding, an ·i. s sue that has sud cl c,~ n 1 y cl at ... m o d on them aftE!r a number of ye!ars of tranqu-ility.

Thc,~y have beE!I1 pointing out that there are pr·obl.c~ms -in r'(;!lctL-i.on to fund"i.nq educaU .on in thE! ProvinCE!, and we are I.AJel.l i~WiH'r~ oF t.hr:·lt., t.o l::hE! point where we have been i:-lddr'(;!ss:ing ~ : he s:i.t1.1.:'\tion :i.n a number of ways, but thorE:~ iH'E! many mo r· e l.lri. n g s l". h r:·l 1·. h r:w e hJ I:H'! clone and :i. n or' cl E:' r to rna k E:' s u , .. c,~ t h a t it:. is r:lorH'! pi"OPC'!I"'l.y, I.•H'! l:h011ght. ·i 1·.: :is a very appr·opr·iate tirnE! -· v.1hen I s i:-1 y I lA! (;! I I I c:l rn 1·. h :i n k i. n g 0 f d 11. i: h (;! pr:1ople in thE!

E:~ducation f'.iE!l.d Jn general - to do an in· depth study . Two studjes LJJerE:1 announced jn the Thr'one Sp<:1c,'ch. ·rhc:1 one'! J.n rE!lation to the effE!Ct thE! scienCE! and rnat:h pr·ogr'alniTIE:~s 'i.n our schooJ.s No. 34. R1782

hcwe on the succc,1ss r;'\~(~ oF OtJr students at post - secondary i.nsU.t.uL'.ions J.~; now j11st r.ll:lottt off the ground. We IAJill be saying morr~ on l::hi'IL i.n a coupl.<,1 of dt.·lys. On the other one, the terms of r· e f c,1 r· r'~ n c e r'\ n d s o o n '~' r· r~ b o i. n g p 1 1 t :in pJace. W~~ arC:1 aJ.rnost Y'E!ady to go . And, as I sHi.d br~foi"C,1, CH1cc,1 tJ.Je ar'E! off the mark I wiJ.l certcttnl.y let the hon. gentlemi'\n and the House know. MR. DECKER : A supplementary, Mr . Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: ThE! hon. the rnE!fnber for th(:1 Strait of Belle Isle. MR.

DECKf::R: If-the-minister tJ.JouJ.d takE! a li.ttle bit of advice from his friend, I IAJould advise that befor·e Lhey t.r·y l:o malo~ poJ. H i.c,'\J. poi.nl:s on those task forces that they IAJOIJJ.d at. lf~c:J.st hcwe t.:h~::1m rc;!c:-~dy l~.o go instead of publishing it aJl acr·oss !':he l.clnd r.1nd thr:~y nol~. E!tJen ready. TI·H~ mtrds1 :.r,1r IAii.ll. know l.:l'lr.lt in l : hr~ last budget the average increase in CIH'rf:!l1t i'\CCOIII1t f~XfH,1ndi . l':llr'r~ IAii'\!; 6 per cent, and that the i. n c r· e r:u; e:1 F o r· c-:1 d u c a t. i. o n l.~kl s 2 . 7 p e r cc~nt.

Is the minister at.uare that .if t. h e:1 a v <H' c'\ g E! inc r· E:1 as c,1 "i. n c IH' r· f~ n t account expenditures of 6 per cent had been applied to primary, elementary and secondary education there would have been an addit::i.onal $i2. 3 rn:il1ion avaiJ.abJ.e for education? If t:hc,1 mirl"lshH' ·i.s awar·e of ·this, LAJhat plans does hE! have to increase spending on education so that there can bE! a catch-up with other sectors of the governrnE!n·t? MR. SPFAKER: The hon. the Min:ish~r of Education. 1.1'/B3 lJol. XI . MR. HEARN : Mr.

Speaker, in r·e:,lation to t.ha · l~ I pr::~r·h·'1fl!i should r:·\Sk the hon. gentl(,1Hian if he i s atAJCH'l':~ :in l.ook "i. ng Rt i.hn ~~dt1Ct.·1t:"i.on budgc:!t. there is one fewer pay period this year, one less pcly period than there was last year? Last year t>~Ji:ls onC'! of Lh~'! odd yutu·s tAlE! I"Un into one out of every ten years where we have twenty-seven instead of twenty-six pay pE!r'iods, and t.hi!i.t: r:\CcountE!d f'or· about $12 01n $ 1 3 m i 1 1 i o n . T hi s y e cH' IAJ e h a v E! sixty-four fewer teaching posiU.ons at: $37,000 a shot.

WE! have 2500 fewer students at the per pupil rate that we pay for studfHlts which, of cour·se, has increased so that has a tremendous effect. That certa"i.nly coloured the budget, if we ar·E~ looldng at the increase over last year, to thE! point whE!rE! thE! dollars thclt.: went to the students, the per pupil grant over·all th:is ye~al", is i'l lA I h o p p t n g 9 p (~ r· c f:• n t , t!J h J c h i s the largest it has been in several yo;:-lrs. SOME HON. MEMBERS: H~~dr', hE!i'\r! MR. DECKER : A final supplementary, Mr·. SpE!akE!Y'. MR. SPEAKER: A Fini'll stJpplE!I'n(:Hltary. MR.

DECKER : I tJJouJ.d answer thE! rnini s tE!r' s quc-?.sti.ons but I clrn sur·e Your Honour would not a.J.low rnE! to do ti'w answer· i.ng . Ii:: -L~> tny r·o J.e to ask the questions. MR. SIMMS : Go ahE:1c\d . By leave! SOME HON . MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. DECKER: ~J 0 ' 3/.1. rn7a3

I have leave to answer? MR. SIMMS: Yes. .MR. DECI<ER : Mr. Speaker, nolAJ that I havE! been given leave, I assume I IAJ.il.l go on unt-il stx o'clock. The hon. minister· tAr.i11 know, cts I have told him many times in this House - MR. SPF.:!~KF.:R : OrciE:H', pJ.eascol! MR. DECI<FR: T. havel.(~dve, Mr·. ~3per.·1kc:!r . MR. SI:MMS : Y~)S, to anst1.HH' the question . MR. DF.CI<FR: The hon. rni.nisl ·: nr lAlill know, r:IS IA)f'! have told him so many times - MR. SPEAI<FR : or·de:1r, pl.e:1asE:1! Th"i.s is question t.ime, so I ask the hon. member - MR. DECKER: So I have no leave . f"1R.

SPEAK~.B.: - to pose his final supplementary . MR. DINN : If you have-?. nof:h:ing to say, s·t.t dOlAJn. MR. DFCI<FR : T. r f! f Ccl r· 1·.: h C'! rn 'L n j , s t·. ('!I" b i'1 c !< l: o l:. h Col Hducat:iona1 l"evJC:'lAJ r·c;!fE!r'r'<old to in t.htl Thr'<HW ~3FHH~ch, .:-1nd T Sltggesl: that he kl'IOliJS tl·w anSlAIE:lr nOI..o.l, SO lhE~r·(~for·E~ I ds!< l~ho rn·i.n'i.st.c ,l r' IAJ.ill he no ·t notAl adm-it that thts r·E:w:i.et.u connni. L t:.c,lo r'E!fC;!r't"od +.: o "i.n thr~ Thi"OnE~ Sp(!e c: h was just anot.hE! r· s 1·:. H l.l. "i. n g 111r:1 no Ccli,J v C:! r·, P.l de 1 a y ·-i_ n g tactic?

The minister knows the E!rnphasi.s l:. h;fll~. h.is goVE!l"nHI~'!nt L1784 May 11, 1988 VoJ. XL places upon education and all this committee is doing is trying to stall off the inE!VitabJ e. Will ti· H~ rnirl"i.st.er not adrn:J.t that this comrnittE!B was nothing rno1ne th<:-ln a farce to take some of the heat ofF his dE!partrnent from the E!ducators in this Province? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education. MR. HEARI\J: The hon. gentleman was going to r:111SI£JOr 111y qiH:lSL .i. ons I and, of course:1, reneged on J.eave, a s h<;! rJ ·i. d y ('! S i·.

C:! r• d ~1 y C'! \) f;! n t n g lAI h (~ n h E! suggested in the House that he was go i.ng to h~ ll Lu; how they IAJOI!l.d replace tho income that we take in fi"Om 3chool rax {)tJi·:hor· 'i t. j E~S, t.·i.rnc;!d his statements perfectly to c: o i. n c: ·i. d <'! wi. 1: h s i. x o ' c J. o c k , a n d despitE! the fact that lAH~ off'E!r·ed t:o giv<cl h:.i.rn le<.wE~ IAJCH'JrlE!d d1Ali'1Y Fr·orn it because they have no solutions, J .. i b~ f~ v e r· y t lri. n g e l. ~;c,1 . M cl y b E! t h E! han. gentleman shouJ.d be atAJarE! that we have not delayed anything.

In fact, when we announced the;! study tAJhich tAJ:i11 bE! in place I and thE! hon. gE!nt .J.E!fnan and the educational fieJ.d in general wiJ.l be working with us on this, we will make sure that it wiJ.J. be an aJJ-encornpassing study Lhat. tAti.ll J.oo!< at. E'!ducational funding in totaJ..

To make surE! t h <.·1 t 'i. t. 1.~1<'1 s n o t a d E! 1 a y ·i n g t a c t ·i c , we said when we introduced tt that it !AJOIIld ha1H~ no cc!ff~ ' !Ct on our regular programming and we would not·. ptl'l': th"i.ngs on hol.d. v~e r:<tdclr.:H:I an 80 pr.:1r CE!nt incJ"Cclase t: o school eqtlr.11iz~:~t·ion l:: h:i.s yc,,,:~r, c.~n CclXtr·d $2 rnilli.on; lAJB addr.:1d f-ifty Co'Xt:l"a 11n:i. l".s i·:o thE! tc~r:-\Ch:ing For'CE'! out:. there; we aJ.so incr'E!aSE!cl t:he pE!r p11p·Jl gr·;:~nl : ; tAJP. bJ"OIJghl:. :i.nt.o effect l:he eliminaU .on of ·Uw 10 p e r· c E'! n t ; IAJC~ constructjon by ;:-1nd on c:1nd on No. 34 extended school $20 mJ11ion on d n cf IAIE! i'l <'1 V e I riOt' (,1 R1784

money i.n our b11dge 1: in c~ach iH' E~ a than evE:H' befor·e, so that is certinly not a rlelctying tac t tc. r.n r·oJ.ai :J.on to l.'.lhdt: he s.:·IYS 1 1 1M<:' have told thE!fTI1 1 Mr·. Speakc"H' I l·.:hc~y h<:~l.JO i":old Ll~; dbsolu+:r~ l y n () t. h j n g ' A J 1 IAHo' h a v (o~ g 0 t t ~HI f r 0 rn !-.horn ··i s r·r~•:lC I:: .ion to l : hr~ th:-i.ng s thdt 1.11e he1vE:~ done"~.

WhE!n 1.11e haVE! crc~cll:c~d 011t ~hC; !Y'(~ dl'l aiAJi::lY'r:!l'lOSS oF SOOIH Of l:he pr•oblE!ITIS, they read so1nco~ l·:h i. ngs i.n t.h(! pr~' !S s or' hr~i:·lr' theTII on r·adto, and thE!Y then get up :in thco~ Hou s e-:! i::lnd s l·:ar·t. spout i.ng off telling us things we have 1 ea rrH:~d y r~a rs ago I 1: h:i.ng s t. hat u1e have already worked on correcting . MR. SIMMONS : Mr . Speak<::~r. MR . SPEAKER : The hon. thE:~ member for Fortune - Hc~rmib:~gro~. MR. SIMMONS : Mr. SpC:~aker' I I have a qut:~stion for the M t n.i.s~er of Forestry.

I :.c-:~y to hj rn no1.u that the FE!deral D <~ p i:H' t rn C:Hl 1.: of A g I" i c 1 1l t 1 1 r· C:! 1'1<:·1 ~~ r'E!moved ~d s ear·lier· Y'C:H-lson For· not: b <::' i. n g r.1 b 1 e 1: o g o t.~r:i . 1: h a c o Til p l E! 1··. 8 Rt fol"n1uJa r.p1nay this Surnrnerl nolA! t h 1:·1 1·:. 1·. h t' ! r· e ;:·1 s o n h r.l s b r~ c:! n 1.: i'l k c~ n o 1 1 1:. flnom und<~ ln hlrlll w:iJ 1 he~ agre E! I Mr. Sp c ~a!<er I t.o foll .OIAJ i:he i::ldiJj.ce of t he <-:!XpE!r'-ts on this issue and g o IAri. t: h l:. h e 8 t f o r-rn ul a c o rn p l e:~ h~ l. y in forest spraying this year? MR.

SPEAKER: T h e· -IWrl~-l : h H M .i n .i s t. e:~ r o f For' c;! s t·. ResourCE!& . MR . R. AYI.WARD : Thank you much for the question . Mr . Sp(:1ai<E~r I I do agr·e,~E! l:.hdl:·. I l.llill go v.d. t h the experts in r· E:' c ornrnc,~ nd ml: ions that IA)(;!Y'E:~ mad<::~ to Ll78S May 111 1988 Vol XL HH~ o n 1:: he s p r-t'l y p r· o g r' c:HrmH:! 1: hi. s year. As a matter of Fact, we hHI.I(:~ gone,~ a little fur·l::hc:!r' t.han was anticipated th is YE!Cll".

Wo h d IJ e i. l'l C Y' C:! •'I S (:1 d 0 I I Y' 3 1: S p Y' r:l y f Y' 0 In about 5,000 hC:~ctars J.ast- . yEHH'I '~'h ··i c h lAIC\ ~' ,., n (~ x p t:! r· :i.lfl('! n '1-:. a J programme, to about 201000 hectar s ·i··.h·i.s y(~i:lr ' I i::l IJ.OO p o r c E ~n t. ·i.n c r' E'!d SE! I I bE!llE!Ve I Mr'. SpE!ai<E!Y' I you couJd lfli:l k ~~ that. o '·' t to b (:1 . SOME HON. MEMBERS : I-IE!ar I hear! MR. R.

AYLWARD: And LIJe IAJi.ll bH :i. ncr·<:~ a s i ng t.: hat in the future if our commercial spray with Bt this y e ar prove s to be successful in protecting our f o r e;! s t s f o r t. h E:1 j o b s iUl d t h e songbirds that everyone ke e p saying ar c-?. being affecl::c~d by l: : h e:~ fenitrothion. Mr·. Speaker, if v.Je h i:t v e,~ no f o r· e'! s 1-:. s IAH,1 h a v t'! no songbirds anyway . MR. SIMMONS : M r· . S p e,~ a k c;! r I a s 1.1 p p l E:! m ~::~ n t·. iH' y . MR. SPEAKER: () Sllpplprnc~nt.ar·y~ i·:he hon. t:hE:! member for Fortune - Hermitage. MR. SIMMONS : Mr.

Spoakerl there is no question: Everybody i s s aying -l:h;:~l:. 1·:hl'! songb:il"d s ar· n being adVE!rsely affected, thE! rnini s t:er 1 s own report is saying that . fhe mini s ter has rnade reference, in talking about this i ss ue i.n the 1 as t IAJE! E! k or so I to t: hE! fact that t he · -i.ncr·ea ~; e.;!d ·- MR. SPEAKER: order· I p1easC:1! MR. SIMMONS : -amount of Bt spraying proposed or planned for Lhis year is also experimental. No. 34. R178S

MR. SPEAKER: Or·der, please! WouJ.d thc,1 hon. lfi~HnbE:1r pJ.c,1asc;! posE:1 his question? MR. SIMMONS: Yes, Sir· . Mr. SpE:1aker, I ask the ministE!r would he indicate to the House why he continues to characterize this year 1 s B t s p r· a y co mp o I'H'! 1'1 t as experimental? Is there something about tho Bt spr·ay thdt t : hc~ minister has concerns about in tC:H'IfiS of i.I~ S Si:~fC:1t.y CH' in l ··.~~r'IIIS of its E!fF~~ct.ivenc,1SS to do thc,1 job i . nt~~ndc~ d? MR. SPF.AKF.R: Th~~ hon. the Min.istc~r of Fore1st ROSOIII" C<:'S. MR. R . AYI..WIHW: Mr· .

Speake I", ruy concE:1rn, to put. it ct ~' s h or t as t can , "i. s J. i.'l s t y <:HH' ~~It'' hdd a very successful, well con t r o l.l. E:' d ~~ x fH'! r· i.IIHHl t , 1~1 h ~H' ~~ IAH:1 developed a new formulation of Di.apel 176 Bt whi.ch 1;.1as shot~.m t.o be successful in an experimental oper·at:i.on last yc-:1ar. It. IAJas vc-?.r'y well controlled, we had good tAJeat.her· cond:it.ions, everything happenE!d to work ideaJ., and we got excellent results, wh i ch we are delighted with.

Two tAJE:1eks ago, on April 28 - we had b~~en t..r..Jcdt"i.ng s "i. ncc-:1 lctsl: : ye;u· during our spray programme until Apr·:i.l 2a of thJ.s y<;!iH', t.1..r..1o I~I<Hd<s ago we finally got that f<H'IIllll.Rt ·i.on of 3t r·~~g"i.stor·c·~d. 011r pJ.ans hi:IVE:1 bc;!en madE! for· a spray progr'dHlllle, Mr·. 5pr~ct!<C:11'', c:~nd tendel" !: had gone;! out. bE:1for·e the d ~1 t. 0 t: h H 1'. 1.: h ('! F "i n i'~ l Y' ~~gist r· c:l 1: "i. 0 n t..r..Jcts i~PPI"ovc,1d.

So IAJhat I.UE:1 IAliHlt to do t: h "i. s y c,1 c:l r· i. s t. c"l k 0. 1·. h (;! f :-i. n d J. n CJ s that our ~ ~ xper·irnent.al pr·ogramme c a 1 n (,1 1 1 p l..r..l i. t. h l. a s l: y ~=! r.1 r· d n d 1..1786 May 11, 1988 Vol XL ~~ r·ansJ.Ht-.<,1 thom 'inl: :o a full-fledged, commercial spray progr·anllfH'! l:o pr·oL~~cl': thH forc,1sts "i.n this Province. Mr. Speaker, one thing that pE!OplE! keep referring to is the study that was done on the songbirds . ThH 1987 Fenitroth ·ion Monitoring Study on Songbird Brain CHE Act.iv"i.l:y c:1nd BalsaiTl Fir Fol.:iaq(,! is thE! namE! of thE! study .

One thing i:: h a t.:. I '"' o u l. d l. ·i. k c;! L o r· c,1 c:H:I o u l:. o f this study, which nobody u.Jants to r·~ = !port or nobody IAidnl ... s l":o I"E!ad in this study, is one paragraph of l:h(;1 si.:11dy hr;•r'(,' 1~1hi . ch says, 1Nothing unu!;uaJ or unE!XpectE!d lAIRS seen or heclrd or otheriAI"i.se detected in the bE!haviour of any b"i. rd spec"i.es on t he dRy of the spray or days foJ.loiAiing the spr'i:'IY. No songl :n.r·d c;u·c• :·l SS('!S, other than those collected shot l..r..l'i L h ll. l 0 :; , ~~JC,1 r· E! f o 11 n d "i. n i'\ n y b l. o c k during thE:' study. 1 Mr·.

SpeakE•r', that spedks for itself. MR. SIMMONS : A final supplementary, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: A f'i.nc.~l SIJppl.~miPntary, the;! hon. the member for Fortune - Hermitage . MR. SIMMONS: Mr· . Spedi«H', s i.ncc;! i·w is all o1).1ed to re!ad from thE! report and I f.Hll not d11r'"i.ng l:h"i.s pc->.r' i.od, IAihy do1:!S he not also read the sentence that s ays that '".lh~H'(i! thE!r'E! was double swathing the birds did not r'f'!Covr.:!r'? Why does h~~ nol:: t:~=!ll that to thP House as well? MR. SIMMS: 1Ti8rr:~s no do11bJ.~~ SIAii:~t:h : i.ng . MR . SPFrlKER : 01~d~H', pJ.eaSE!! MR. SIMMONS: Mr .

SF)(~<:lln:!r, l::h'i.s ~~!"ill cornr-~ c:1s a No. 34 Rl'/86

real shock to the system of my cousin, but I am not asking him a quest i.on. I a111 i.'ISI<"'i.ng the-?. Minister of Forestry a final s 1.1 pp l.c,~HifHl t:i'lry, Mr. SpE~a k c,H', ct s follows: Will the minister tell l: he HOIISA thE~ roal rr,!dSOI'l IAJhy hP. is not going th::i.s YE!ar uJ:'ith th~1 Bt sprHy? l·lr'! hcts told bc;!fOrE! ·i.t: had to do with a license from Agr·i . c11li':11rr,~ . lhRi: excr .1S1'! i. !; frmnd to bE~ gi"OundlE~ss . What is UH,~ r· f~ e1 1. r (,~ e1 s o n ? H i'l s -i. ·t.

I: o d o r.~.d. t h i'l n inventory, a pre-determined plan Lh!~l': UH,~ nr:irdstE!Y' 'is dehH'Irl 'i.rwd l·:o go forward with no matter what a d v :i. c E! h co?. g e t s , n o rn e1 t t e r 1.1.1 h r.\ t 1:. h e consequences are for songbirds? Is !:hat not the r·E~rll rc,~i::tSOI'l hH is going bull-headed into this 1natter·? Is that. l:hE:1 reason? What is the rE!aJ. reason? Has it to do with an inventory? MR. SPEAKER: ThE! hon. the MinistE!r of Forest Resour·ct'!S. MR. R. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, the very first comment T.

IIIRdE:' on l:hc,~ spr·e~y p r· o g r a rnm E:~ 1".: h J s yea 1n , and to E! very quc,1S LJ.on t.:l'lCit IAldS as ked, .if yo11 want to rc,1search it in Hansar·d, I hr.wo scti.d From dc:\y orH~ Ul.:-lt !AlB IAIPI"P VBI"Y

p) E~ased wj th our rr:1SU1ts l. i:l s 1:: y f~ <H' r'\I'H:I 1~)(,~ IAJ'i l. '1. 1:. r i'\ n s J. d tr~ those:1 HXpE!rimental rE:1suJ ts last y r,1ar -; n ~:o e1 I.J.OO fH~ r c t-'! ni: i.ncl"C,1i'\S (,~ in Rt so that IJ..Ie can ph;:1se t.hE! Bt S p r• C\ y p r• 0 g r• r:\lrllfiC,1 i. 1'1 i·. 0 0 II r• !; 1j S 1'. EHII, whilr:~ st::ill, bE:~cauSE! I arn charged with l'he responsibi.li~y of protecting our forests, Mr. ~1pc,~ ctkc"!r, not p1~t:t.'ing l::hOLISi!Hlds of j o b s in N E!IJJf o u n d land at r is k , in j eopar·dy, so 1 IAI.ill phase :i.n At. l:o make sure it will work and protect our fores l:s. M r .

S p e a k e r· , t h e h o n . rn c-:Hn be r· cl:i d ask me to read frorn anot.I1E!r part of t h e s t. u d y , m n d I 1~.ri. s h t o r E! c:~ d L1787 May 11, 1988 Vol XL the pmrt which says, 'The spray blocks had the highE!St amount of fenitrothton deposi.terl on foliage samplc;!S did not yiE!1d thE! s ongb ·i.t"d s wi. th htg I·H~ s l: CH E depressant.' Mr·. Speake·r·, thE! r· o p or 1-. ·i !> no ·I: c: o n c l. 1 1 s 'i •J ,, ~ , t. h c;! y have to do morE:~ s tucl.i.E! s, and ou I" dopr:H'i'Hif'!l'li:.

"i.s coJnrn"i.l ... h;!d l":.o cont.inu:ing th~:! studiE:!S on l":.hE! r~FFr-:!ct:> on songb "L rds, Mr· . ~3pc,1 rlker·, and we wil1 be continuing our offor1·!; l".o · incl"f~61SC;! ~hH Bl·. component of our spray programme l'lf~Xt. yt-~i:\1". Mr~. K. AYLWARD : Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: fhe hon. 111e 1nb C'! r· for StE!phenville . MR. K. AYLWARD: Mr. Spc~c-.li<E!Y', I !·:hough l:hr:1 M.:i.n·ist,?.r' of Career Development would be I·H~ar l:.oday, but h<-:' .J.s not: . l'hE! Premier undertook t:o got rne SOITIE! i:ti1SI.~Jer·s yE~st.er·d;:·\y, bul·: he,, i.s not: here.

So I will direct rny Cjllf~SI:"i.ons 'i".o t·.hr:1 o~~PI.JI:y Pr·c-:~rn'.ic'!r', and hopefully I can gE!t sorne <,l 1'1 S I~)(~ r• S i. 1'1 r E:1} i'l 1.: -j, 0 1'1 1: 0 l. i''l lj 0 F f S across the Province in our post: ·Sr-~condr.~I"Y ·i.ns l".'.i.i-.lttJ.ons, th''' Community Colleges. Could thE~ OE!puty Prc-:~rnier· tE!ll us i'lr"e l_ i:~yoffs o c: c IHTi. ng? rf 1:: IH! y are occurring, what are Lhe ro;:~sons For· t·:ho!;E~ layoffs? Is 11~. due to a lack of funding t:o thE!SE:! "i. n s t.: -L t IJ t. oi. on s , or· :i. s 1·: h "i. s j us t r.~ natural p1nocess? MR.

SPEAKER: The han. the MJnoi.sh1r of HE~alth. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, q u (o1 s t j_ () n I.•.Ji:l s sarne as one di.rc,1c I'.:E:!d t.o No. 34 I t: h i n k t:1·1 c"A t substdnt.ially asked yesterday l::hE~ Pr•(,~rn-i.eJ", and that t: hE! and the R17H7

P r om i c:l r i. n d ·i c "" t f ~ d t: h i'l 1.: h e I)JO r 1l. d tak~~ th~1 ruo.tter undco1r advisement. Mf~. 1<. AYLWARD: A s 1.1 p p l.t:>.m~~ nt 1:·1 r· y . MR. SPEAKER : A SlJpplementary . MR. 1<. AYLWAfW: Mr. Speaker, I ask him 1.uhether or not he can conf.irrn that UH~ layoffs ar·e dUE! to the fact that there is a lack of operational funding. I have a letter herE!, Mr·. Sp~~dkc.;! r, t.uh:ich I JJJOLild J.ike1 the rnin:i.ster to r'E!spond to, that lAJCIS S~Hll:. to a fOI"IfiPr' IAJOY'kl·H' dt. l::h~~ We s tern Community College at Sl·:E!phonv:ill.E!. D f~ . COLI.. TN~3 : A pcd nt of ordE:lr, Ml".

SpeakeH' . MR. SPFAI<f::R: A po :J rrt ·o-f order , t"hl;1 hon . thE! M:i. rl'i s t c:1 r of H ~~ CJ 1 H1 . OR . COU.II\JS : Ml". Speake:1r, I understand the hon. Hlf:1rnbc~r is 110IAJ on 1:.1 supplcollll~lnhH'IJ . He ClSked on the initial questions, ls now on <:1 suppl.c ;nnent.dry, and ht->. is going into reading J etters or whatever. I think that is totally out of ordE:1r. MR. K . AYLWARD: To the point of order . MR. SPEAKER : To that point of or'dE!r, I was l. i. s t. c->. n "i. n g c 1~ I" c'! f r.1ll y 1·. o 1:. hI':' h on . ITHWJber'.

If he had s tartE!d re1ading C:'l l.r:1tl':.c:1r I IAJouJ.d hc.we d -L r·c;!ct. ~ : !d hirn to stop. I ask hirn to ask his suppl.f~ rnont. iH' IJ qriE:lS li.on. MR. I<. AYI..WARf) : ThiHlk 1)011. lh!Cdii Sf~ l:hey d 0 1'10 J: !< l'lOIA) evc~ryth:i.rrg, Ml" . SpcolakE!Y', I IAJi'.lS 1... 1788 Mc:·11J 1.1., 1.988 Vol XI . t r y "i. n g l': o I~ P 1.1 h i .Hl lAJ h a t t. h l'' situation is, and that wa s the I"'" 1:1 son f CH' rno r' ~:!<.HI "i. n g t h r;! 1 wl:·. h'! 1~ . Would he comment on this s i:.dl: ~~rnent. : l: r' «::l gr•c:lt i·:o hav e;! to advisE! you-- MR . SPEAKER : Order·, please!

That: is not: in ordE!r for the hon. tn e mbC:l r. The hon. ITIE!rnbc,H' tAI :Lll d :i r E!-C t the sup p 1 em E! n tar y que s lion , or please sit down. MR. K. AYLWARD: ------- ----- ··-Wo u 1 d t he m :i n :i s t E! r tE! 1 1 u s if t IH! J. <.-1 \) 0 f f S C\ 1:. 1.: h 1'! C OlrliTIUI'l i. t y C 0 lJ. f'! <j(~ s ystE!m in thE! Prouince an:! dlH! to a l. <:·1 c k of o p fH' i:'l I· .. i. n g f 1.1 n d s 1.: h <:'1 l: h a v ('! b E! EHt g i v <;! n l o t:\'w c o 11 E! g (;! s , p r:l r· .. i. o d ? MR . SPEAI<FR: . r h r,,-,.~c;n.-tT1 (:1 M :i. n i. s t. f:! r' () f H E:! cl l 1.: h . f)f~. CO L LINS : Mr·.

SpeakE!r', Uw hon. the Pr·c;!ITt:ier' hi:ts rJnd(.;!r'taken t·.o gE'!i': r'Plc ,1vant. information on this matter, period. MR. LONG : Mr·. Sp C:1 aker . MR. SPEAKER : The hon . the member for S t . John 1 s E MR. LONG : Mr. SpE!akE!r, 1'. 0 d i:'l y r 0 r· t h (.;! Affairs and Yor.1ng) . 11:. mattE!r that I I have a que s tion Mi nist er of Co nsumer Communications (Mr. concc;!r'ns a sel"'ious have bE!E!I'l atAJiH'e of fot" somc:! t.i.me, d n'~ ~.: 1·1 c:·' t. .is L ~l e authority of thE! Aot.H'd. l...and1or •d Tonancy I IAJOUld 1 ikE! to as I< tl'lE!

ITLi n:i S t:E!r' "i. f h P. c; ()Ill. d t l;! ll 1: hE~ H 0 I ll> 0 l).J h d t. status ha s proposed, promised l r:! g ·i. s 1. <:·1 i: 'i. on <'1 l: I· hi s po -L n 1': t: o g i. u H the board authority to haue No. 31~ Rl'/8B

regulatory power with respect to evictions etrld rnaintr::1nancc-:'! or·dc;!rs? MR. SPEAKER : The hon. l:.he M"i.n i.s I:.E>.r of Col'lsurnc,H ' Affairs and Communications. MR. YOUNG : M r· . S j:H'! a I< e r· , 1.1ndE!r·s l:.dnd t ng i·:hat ~is bE~'.i r1g dl"aftc,ld IAJi. l.l. b E! b r· 0 II 9 h t. ~; hol"t.J y. MR. LONG : il:: l:ho A StlpplE:!IIlC.:!I'll· .rH' Y, Mr· . SFH~<.'tker. MR. SPEAKE I~: . --A supplementary, thE! hon . ITH·>.rnber for St. John 1 s East. MR.

LONG : I l.o~Jas not: sure::1 if I could clearly the,' rn:i.n.i.s tC::H', b1.1t I that as a promise that legislation is being drafted. hear I: a k <->. ti1E! Mr. Spc->.akc-:'!r', rny suppl.E>.rnent.t-lry l:o the minister is could he tell the House hoiAJ the dE!p<.H'trnent procHE!dS IAJi th matters that may be brought l:o the l .. andl.or·rl T<-:'!l'liHlCY Board t~Jh<->.n they have no authority _to act, 1.~1h~->.n peoplC::'! rnaybE~ appl.,C)':1.·i ng For ass'.istance to the boa f d, as a c o u r· t·. of l. r:-1 s t r· l:: , 1.o~J"i .

I: h pl"obJ r::1rns r<-:'] atc,,d a · ntco'!nancP i:lnd l.lpkf~(o1p or•, -.-i.ndf'!c/d, IAJ"il':h i ·. hr'! issue of evictions? MR . SPEAKER : Th ,,1 h on -:--:th r::1 M:i n :is t EH' of Co tt s urTJE:'! r AfFi'\:ir·s and Cot~nnun-i.ci'\'1: . .-i.ons . MR. YOUNG : Mr. Spf~aker, UH:! boi:-J.I"rl ~ s, m<H'f;! Ol" 1 (;1 s s , an autonomous b o dW , a 1 though t:h<-'!Y corn<->. under l::he 1 ur·.i.sdicl ·: "i on of Consumer Af air;.

The .' '(, l.eqi.slat:ton w"i.ll. b~1 dr·afCI:<'!d, I ;:~m s u r· e , a n d i n d u E! c o ut s e t t 1.o~Ji 11 com<-:'! befor·e !::he House of Ass <->.rnbl.y. '-1.789 MHy 11, 19BB Vol XL MR. LONG : A fi.nal suppl.~~tll<-'!nt.r:u·y, Mr . Speal«'!r . MR. SPEAI<ER: A final s upplementary, the hon. the member for St. John 1 s East:.. MR. LONG: My final s upplementary, Mr. ~)pr,1r.t!<f~r·, I~IOtl ' ld br,'!: C"i. lJC'!I'l i·.hi'l r i. n 1981 Lhr::1 Supr'E!mE!

Cour·t: of Canada 1--. h t' (~ IAJ 0 I I i ·. 1': h ('! / ·p 0 IAI E! r• 0 ·f S I I C h te nt-U'l c y boa1"d ( , · why :i ~; 1: h(:• m'in.i.~; L-.1::H' t~ld:i.;l : 'i. ng so '·,l.ong i·: o l:.akP action on a very critical i s sue f d c 'i n g t-. P n <.·1 n L s . :i n 1.: h :i. s P r· o IJ .i n c <'! , who now h a v no ! court of last r· r;! so r· i:. t.o~J 'l l : h f ~~ t> <-:! c t 1: o E ~ lJ i. c t . .ion or·ders or rn ai · E! nance ordc;!r· s ? Why i s :it taking so long f o r lh<" legislation, Mr. Speaker? MR. SPEAKER: The han. t·. h~:! M·.i.ntstE!r' of Consurnc::!r Affairs and Communications. MR.

YOUNG : Mr·. Spc,1ai<E!r, I told l::h<-:! hon. gentleman that it is being drafted by the dep;::n·tment . of Just ic e, <.~nd I have no inte.nti.on of going do~Am and d:i.r·c,1ct'i.ng t:hE:! / D~~par·tmc,1nt:. or= J u s t i c e o n what: ~ ... do . ~R. EFFORD: Mr. Sp~:!i'\ k er . Ml~. ~3PFAI<ER : The hon. the member for Port de Cr· <.·1 lJ r,, . MR. EFFORD : Thi:lnk you, Mr·. Spe<.·lkc,'!r. Mr. Speaker, my quesl::ion is d .i r· (,1 c 1: c,1 d t o 1:. h E:! Mi. rd. s t e r· o f S o c i a l. Services (Mr. Tobin) and arises out:. of the,'! qt~~'!Sti . on T. asked a couple of days ago in t.hE!

House c o n c E:'! r· n ·i. n g '"' h o h i:l d a u L h o r· i. 1:. y o v P r the Young Offenders Board. WhE!n I a~>kHd could l::hc,'! M.i.nist:< ,11" o f So c ial Services aboJ.:i.sh that board, thE! ~Jo. 14 RJ.'789

Prer11:ier· and col.lf~Clgtlr,1!> scd.d, fooJ-.ish, IAH~ do i:'llli:.horit.y. 1 seven 11\Jo, not of his do not: be havE! that:. t IAJOIIld e~sk UH1 Mi.n:i .!d:<::H' of Soc:i.aJ. Services was that a correct ~; t: d l:. ~=! rn<c! n t by 1:. h ~~ P r ~~ rn i. lc! r? C <.·111 h ~~ giVE:1 an E:1Xplanation as to IA.Ihy hi.s d<-:!partment doe,1s not. hc:wr-?. t:hE:~ cwthorii:y to abolish thE! Young Offenders Boar·d? MR. TOBIN : Mr. Speaker· . MR. SPEAKER : The-?. hon. l:he M-Lnoi~>t:.er· of Soci<.'ll. Ser·vices . MR. TOBTN : M r· . S pea k e r , I t hi n k 'L he h on . g<Hll:l.c,1111•'11'1 st.'li.d UH:!

Pr·~~tni . or sd:i.d i':o the,! hon. genl:lE:1man hE! 'is foolish. Y (~ s , L 1·1 r:-1 1:. i s a 1". r· 11 e s 1:c:·1 hwJC,' n 1· .. SOME l-ION. MFMB F. RS : Hc,h-.tr', hr.,! a I~! Ml~. ErFOIW: A supplement~ry, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKf.R: A supplem-entary question . MR. EFFORD: Mr. Speaker, because we have a great deal of concern for the young offenders of thi.s Province and their rehabilitation into society, I ask the Minister of Social Services does hls departmE!nt and hE! as rnjnister, and h -L s Cab .i net h <:~ v e '1'. h ~~ au 1:. h o r· :i 1: y 1: o abolish thE! Young OffE!ndE!rS Review 13oat~d? MR.

TOBIN : Mr·. SpHi'.'lh'r. Ml~. SPF.AKF.R: Thc,1 hon . thE! Minis b'!l'' of Social ~)<C!riJi.Cf~S , I. 1790 May 11, 1988 UoJ. XL MR. TOBIN: Mr·. ~1PO•'Ii<r'!r', J hi.'llJf:! E:!xpli:'li.ne;!!J to the hon. gE:Hl tl.E!rnan SE!VE!ral tJ.Iflf:!S .. _ 0 b lJ j , 0 II S ll) y 0 II h ;:·1 IJ f;! d ·i. f f .i. C 1.1'1.!:·. y comprehending thE! fact is thcl'l: federRl J.ogis1~t1on provides For the Young Offenders Review Board l'.:o bf:! s~~t 1.1p . T ' h(~ DE!pdr't:mc;!nl:: of Social Services and the GoVE!rnrnE!I'lt of Newfoundland, recognizing that legisJ.ation, has put in place thE• Young OffE:mde-?.rs R<'!vietAJ Boar·d.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: H <,1 a r· , h ('! a r ! MR. EFFORD: (l ·f·Jnc1l.wppl <->.rrte'!ntary, Mr· . Sp(~ak(:! r . MR. SPEAKER: A f"i.naJ. Si.lpplr-?.tnE:Hl'l:.iH'Y . MR. EFFORD : This goes to show you how rnuch the Mi.n i.si".f'!r of :1oc'ii.'IJ ~'if:!l"tJ"i.ces knotAIS about:. his Cab:inet.. Lf~t ITif'! say Lo the 1ni. ni. s t:M' SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! Mf~. SPEAKFR: 0 r· d c,~ r , p J. e a s H ! MR.

EFFORD: Lc,1t Ill(~ e1Sk thc,1 rrri.n:LstPr' -Ls 'il':. not a fact that the Young Offenders Re-?.view BoiY~t'd IAH'IS !;Hi:. up by Order-in-·CounciJ. in February 1987, and s'i.ncE:1 he-'! and h:i.s Cab'inE!t had thE! authority to sEd: it up, thE!Y c1l.so have,1 l·:h~~ <.'luthori.l::y to l:.akr,, it a1A.1ay? MR. TOBIN: Mr· . ~'ipeal«-?.r. MR . SPEAKER: ThE' hon . l::hr,~ M:'i.n:i.s+~~r· of !3octaJ. SE!r·v:ices . MR. TOBIN : Mt·. Spf~i:11<r~r-, l·.hf~ hon. gf:!l'll:·.lerndn No. 34 IH790 --"' ·--

kt~E!pS r·eferr"ing would like to gentleman that Prc:~miE!Y' and I Cabinet . I am Cabinet. MR. LUSH : Mr· . S~H:~ab,~r . MR . SPF.AKFR : to my Ca l>"i. n c;! t. . I inform UlE! hon. I arn not the do not have a a mc:'!rnber of the:'! The hon . the merni:HH' for· Bonavista Nor· Lh. SOME liON. MFMAERS: Hear · , hc,~iH'! MR. l..l.ISI·I: Mr ' Spe(~kc;!r I l h;:wo r'1 qiWS 1·. -i. on For tJlC'! Minist~~l" of Fdt~cat:ion. The Mln t s+:er of F.rluc:Rtion wt l l know that Jn ln(:~ cent days the President of the NTA. expr·~:!ssc,~d SOIIH;! concerns r'E!]ating Lo fund ra :ising b y s t. u d c,~ n t:. s .

T h t,~ P r· c,~ s ·i. d c;! n t. expressed concer·ns relate!d to thE! extent and the degree to whJch students werE! involVE!d in Fund raising. I wonder whether the minister has undertaken to investigate this matter to determine whether or not the accusations levelled by the President of the NTA can indeed be subs t. r.l n t.-i c1 1: e d? Ml~ . HF.:ARN : Mr . Speak c,H' . MR. SPE'AI<fl~: T h r,~ h o n . t: h e M J. n :1 s t c,~ r of F r:l11 c i:t 1 ... ·i o n . Ml~. HFAJW: Mr·. ~~peCII<E!I", T thank the han. 1 rH:nni:HH' F o r· h ·i. s qi.IE! s t:"i.on.

I noti C(:H~ on l.:hm 1:. 1·hr.1l: forc.;!fr·ont. a number· of occasJ.ons "i. s s liE! COlli~:! s i'.o I:.I·H~ Fund .... r· ;:~ i. s i n g by s c h o o l s has ftli•H·1 y s gone on I the gE:~ntlE!man hirns elf bc.:dng 1~1 tc,~adHH' i.s atAJiH'E!1 and certainly in rny own case I am Ll791 May 111 19H8 Vol XL qllitc.;! f;:'uni.l-Lar· !.o~Jith fund ·-r·a.is:i.nql sometimes for things that you need :i n y o u r· s c h o o 1. 111 a y b e I s orne t. :i rn E! s t o takE! students on trips. It is an c'\g(:~-old custom.

HOIA.It~UE!r, t:h~ : !re seE!rTIS to be sorne concern that :i.t rnight have increased in certain arei.'l.s. This, I tJJould think, t.o~Jould b r,~ R p r· o b l (,~ n1 1". h c:t 1~. l.o~Jo ul d b (,~ d t'~ a J. t: with at the local level by the school, or rnRybe the school board. CE!rt:a:inly, at this s Lagl;! -j 1'. "i. !; s o rn c;! t h :i. n g 1: h r:·d: tAH'! h c~w e n o L looked into. Until tJJE:~ g(:'t fonnii~J cornpla· i n1:•;, or l.o~Jhi:ll·. ntl~ : !r', t:. hc:tt: ther·e is som(:~ c->.ffect in r'E!lation l:o i·. hr~

part 011r· d('!parl : rn( ' !l'll~. t.o~t·. ill play in such an action, thE!n 1.1 n d 0 1.1 b l: E:!f:J l y I!Jr,~ IAJ'.i. l.J l ~~ i:'IU ~:! .i. 1:: Up l'. 0 the local authorities, because I pr'eSIIHH :! l::hc->.y IAIOIIl.d i'rlt;1kE:1 l.: hE! judgment when or when not to al l ow c h i l d r· rc! n ~: o r· i.-1 .i. s c,1 f 1 1 n d s . MR, LUSH: M r -:-sp·E;·a k e r . MR. SPEAKER : Th(:~ hon. thE! lll(:~rnbE!r for' Bonavi.st.a North. MR. LUSH: The JnJ.nisl::c->.t' i. s q11"i.tc~ r·i.ght l).Jhc;!n he asserts that fund-raising always went on by students for rna n y , many y e i.'l. r· s .

But: is t: hE! min"i.st:er aware thctt !:he purposes for which these fund - raising cc~1HIPr'1 " i . yns iH'f~ not.o~J bo'ing conduc l::c,1d have changed? They are not for t. r 'i. p :; I M r· . S p t~ ct k r-~ r , b u 1'. f o r' 1·.: h e purchase of supplies and HdtJcai ·. i.onr'll eqtl .i.pltit"! ni-. 1 l'tnd i·hdl:. 'i. s the mai n dtffc,~r· ence, Mr· . SpoakE:>r ' . T L 'i. s n 0 l: f 0 r IT .ipS b II 1-. f 0 r· st~pplies, Ml". Spc;!akE!r', and for· ~~q11i.puwnl: I'HH :!d~:!d "i.n schools. Is the rrr.irl'.ister at.~Jai"E' of th'is? Tha ·!: i.s 1-ho q11f~sl::ion . MR. SPEAKER: Or·d c,1 r I pl. (;!i::\ s C.;! !

No. 3 4 R1791

MR. LUSH: Is- 1-. h ~'! rni. n i. s 1'. r,~ r· .:·11AJi'l r· r,~ 1:. h d l: I' h r~ pUI"posc:~s have:~ no1.a.J chi:!.ngc,~d for· I.•.J h -i. C h -1: h C:' S f;! !) ·J: I I d f;! 1'1 1: :; d r• C'! r· d "i S 'i. 1'1 9 funds. MR. ~iPF.AI<t.R: Tho hon. 'i.:h(~ M-:i.n:i.s"\:(~r· of f':dt.lcdl:-i .on . MR. HEARN: In l"c,~1at'l.on to that, Mr. SpE!aker, might. T sc:,1y th<.'l·t: it qui. l:c,~ poss i.bly could be Lrue.

I have seen teachers, schools, school boards raisE! funds for a number of dif'fe:~rHnt: th ·:i.ngs, .includ'i.ng sometimes things that the school boar·d or· somebody else,~ cannot. provide and they good, then we t•.d.ll go g(:!t it our·selvc,~s. To a point that is healthy. When it gets t.o UJ<-?. point, hotAH:!VC-?.r', that it becomes an aggr·avat:.'.ion for the p c,~ o pl. (::~ of t: h c;! <.'1 r· (~a o r· <:1 n <-?. c on o 1 n -L c bur·den, then :it ts sed.ous.

J would perhaps say to the member, though, Lh,•11: tn l'i.ghl·: oF sorn,,~ oF Hlf! t hj ng s that: lAJe ar·c,~ t r· yi ng to cl o 1·. o h c,~ l. p s c: h o o 1. b o i'l r· d s , IAJ h i. c h iH'('! now bet't.E:H' off t.han t'VC-?.r', and hope F 111. 1. y 1·.: h l'l l: 11J'i l. l. L r· <'11'1 s li.'l t e i n to s c h o o J s , a !> i t s h o u J d b u t i n 1 j g h t of 1: h f~ I')(:~ lA) e nci C:~ d lJ 0 r• S l: h r:-1 ·1:.

I!JH h d l)(,~ :i.n rnind, jf that. is the-?. case, that ~~ h <'! r· (~ d r· (~ 1:: h-i n g s n ~~ (~ d (;! r:l . o 1.1 t 1: h f'! r r~ t.hat. cani'Jo ·l: bE! gotten thr·ough or·d inary HIC:~i"'ns and 11Je h1:wc~ t-.o resort to children going around selling tickets or solicittng funds t.o g(~t them, then hopefully thosc,1 th ·"i.ngs will l:w cor-rc~ch~d and corrected very quickly. MR. LUSH: Mr•. SpeakE!Y'. MR. SPFAKFR: A f:i.nal suppl.e1nentru·y, HH:! hon . the member for Bonavista North. MR. LUSH: 1\Jot.a.J, Mr·. Spf'!dktH', :i.n lJi.E:!IAJ of Uri.s, I 179'?.

May 11., 1988 VoJ XI.. in vietAJ of thE! fact: that si:uciE!nts dr'f~ fcH·cc,~d l:o nu.s(;! F11nds l·.o buy vttal suppJ.jc,~s and equtprnE!rlt, ::Ls l:hc,, IIJ"i,n'.'i. s i·.f~r· n011J pr'<'!fli'11"'E:!d to advance the monies to school bodt•cls IAJhich drr,, nc.~cc.)ssar·y t:o buy and purchase these v:iti'..ll suppl.'ies ,:~ n d () q 11 J. pHH:! n !". so t: h d 1·: s 1-.:1.1 d (;! n t. s a I" c,~ not Forced to go out on thE:! s 1: r· <:H'd:. s t. o r· ;~1 i. s C'! and co ll (~ c t. mo rH:! y? MR. SPEAKER: ThE! ·hon. the Minisb:~r of Education . MR. HEARN: M r .

S p e f:\ I< (:' r , T lAJO u l d be r· (:~ p E:! at. :in g my S e 1 f t 0 t E! 1 J. thE! h 0 n . g E! n t 1 E! ITitHl how IIlLich Fund ·:i.ng IAJe hav(;! put :in schools the last few years 'in cornp~rison even to recent tlrnes, not t:o say the incrE!ase that hE~s taken place "i.n the last eight, tE!I'l, fifteen years. This YE!ar alone~, i.11l:o l · :hc,~ Of>('!Y'c'1L:i.ng (;!Xpf!l'lSes of schools, the funds that shou1cl pr'Ol;·i.dc,1 1-:hf'! l.:h ·ings t.hi'tl:. LhH hon. gentleman is talking about, went 1:u1 ox i':r'd $11 .. r, rwi.ll;ion f'r·o1n equaJjzation a1one. The local. lOC:i'll.

SChOI)} t.<'\X <:•1lli·.hor•"i_-J:."i.f'!S Y'i'1i~;(;! over $30 million a year. That rno 1'1 r,~ y -:i. ~; Rl so d ·i. s c r· E:! t ion, ,.:, r· y mont~Y. A11 of the,~ doJ.Iar·s, t.u:ith -l:hf'! ,,~xcr.:!pti.on of' l:hr'! opl'!r'i'lt·i.ng costs, go into the schools for SIICh f~XPC:'!I'lS(:~S. !')OIIIIc~i-. .i.lrlf:!S it dOE:!S not matter how many do11ars are i'1lJ ''' i l c:1 b l. e ; 1:: h 1::1 r· c,~ d r· o c E! r· 1.: a .i. n things, perhaps, which a school r· E! q utI"~~ s , I.•.

I h "i. c h t·. h ~:! y Fe H 1 1:. h c,~ y neE!d, that are not providE!cl by Uw school. board, and they will endeavour to raise Funds themselves to purchase them. I had an E!Xamplc,~ a fE!U.J days ago tJJherC'! I had a c;~ll Fr·orn a b~achr:H' who lAJas a bit perturbed about not belng able to get cerl:.ain basic nE!Cessit:i.es in thE! school, but thE! ~;chool. bodr·d h;:-1d pi'lvf:!d 1·1 nurnb(~r· of school pi'..lrk:i.ng lots during the y o <·1 r• . So hJ <'! h i'1l J e t o e1 s s "! s !; , T No. 34- R1792

suppose, how Uw rnonc:!y -i.s spHnt. What I am trying to say is we have ptJt l:hc~ dol.J.cu·s thcH·c~, and hopefully we will continue to put rnore thc->.rc,1, and th""i.ngs should be better off, certainly not worse off, as t.he TTIC-i!inb.:H' IAJOUJ.d l.~!!rYtd IJS to b.:1lieve. But he has a point and hopE!ful.ly -i.t w:i.ll. bc,1 addr't::1ss~:!d. MR. TULK : Mr . Speaker. MR. SPF:Jli<F.R: The hon. the member for Fogo . r"'R. TULK: J i·ti:IV~1 1:1 qUE:1s'l:.jon fo1n ·t.hE:1 M:inJst.c,,r· of Tr·r.~nsporh·l'l:·ion (rJlr· .

Doylr,1 ). tl: r·elat~~~; to a mE:1el:jng that . 1.uc,1nt on o n ~) u n rl i:-1 y o n F o g o :r !) 1 a. n d . T h r,1 nr.irdster· lcnot.us I :invited h".im dot.un l~o Uw lllf;!e1:""i.ng r:Hld I RCCE:'Ph·'!d h:i.s t.UOI"d thi:lt. b1'::1 1Aic1S unable to take t h r:·l 1-: t r· ""i. p ' w ~~ 1. "i. v 0 J. n i:\ rno d ~=! r· n age, so I want Lo present him 1.ui th a v.i.cleo t.r:1pc"! of th~~ rneet"i.ng and l want to ask the minister if he t~.r:i.ll t a k c->. a l. o o k a t H1 E:1 t. a p C::1 a n d give his decision- DR. COLLINS: Is that permitted? MR.

TULK: Of course it arc->. pe r·rn i. t t.c-'!d anybody. is pl'::1rrni tted. You t:o g i.vH anyt.h.i.ng t.o ·- '\:.o combine thE! Fogo Change IslRnrls fHrry further thought with chr:·ulg-i.ng hJ.s 1n-i.nd? AN HON. MFMI1FR : Island and Y'OIIl':r,1 SOHIB a Vi E!IAI t 0 Whi:l-t. kind of tapE! is that? Mr~. TULK : Just a vjdeo tape . Mf~. SPEAKF.R : Th~~ hon. thE! Minister of Tr·ansporti:lt Lon. L1793 May 11, 1988 Vol XL. MR. DOYI.F.: Mr. Speaker, I will be only too pJ.c,1dSc->.d t.o vi.~:!IAI l::he tape.

WE! have a meeting set with the tr·culsportal .: .i.on co1nrrri.t.UH~S of Fogo and Change IsJ.ands to talk about: 1.: 11 c;! 1.1 p c: o rn .i. n g c h a n g e s L o 1:: h ~'! f e I" r· y system. That is aJ.J I can re)Jort t.o 1-. he hon. 9f'!ntl.('!Hii.,ln b\ l:. i::he rnomE!nt. MR. TULK: A su~plementary, Mr . Speaker. MR. SPFAKFR: A suppJ EHTIEHltary, tho hon . l:hE! l'flf:! rn I:

H) r· r o t' F o •:!! o . Ml~. TULK : The rn:i n :i. s t e r· st.at:Cc1d in F s 1: ·i.rnR · I-.e;!~; c orrmri 1·: t (;! (,' L h r:·li: l. d s t y 0 d I" t.hE:1 Fogo Islr.lnd- Chang~'' Isl<;\nc:l s FfH'r·y t'lln 1~1<'\S ccJiltl:l"i.nE!d i'"lnd 1~.1a s successful. Of course, tho llti.n · i . st(,~t· kno1.~1s l · :h;·~,t-: T conl".:Hnd, ;-:'tncl h e 1.1.ri 11 f i n d i n t he tapE! t h a t·. a lot of tho flE1opl.(~ on Fogo Tsland, including the Mayor of Fogo, Mr· . Erlrnund Warbur·n, and l.:h(;! Pl"osJ.dont of the DeveJ.opmE!nt Association, Mr.

C(->.r·;::~ld McKenna, say that. ::i.s not the case, that it was not succc,1ssful.. I IAIOIJl.d ask t:he minister if he would takE! a not her l. o o k a t t h a t p a r· t: i c: 1 J 1 ;u· r· '"! a s o n that he has given with a viHIAI, ag~in, to chang i ng that route back to IAI hat it was , g j vi n g E! a c h ""i.sla.nd, both Change Islands and Fogo Island, their own boat so 1·:hdL 'i: hE~Ij Ci'll'l hdiJ(~ SOIIH'! acce!;S l ~ O l": he rna in 1 and , so t. hat L hey t.~r:.LJ.l hdun d r·oad to l .. he ln,:·,.-i.nl.f.·lnd?

I IAJOUld ask h:im if h!i:' IAIOU1d takE! a IAiholH l"lf'!I'J look ."'!1··. -!:he,~ IAJholn tlri.nq. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. ~h e M :i. n ·i. s 1:". ~ >. r· of Tr·ansportaL.ion. Ml~. DOYI_F: Mt". Speakc,1r, r·~~.:-1son Lhr:-11·: No. 34- t:ha L IAiclS not. LhE! only IAJ(:1 <:-~.r·~>. c:otnb·in ·Lng t.h(;! R1793

Fogo r·un and l:.h(:! Ch1:-1ngr-:! IsJ.,•1nds run. ThE:1 reasons cU'e qu:i te clear 1.1Jhy l.~lH ;:·11"C::! do'i.ng i.l: .. lillf:~ Fr-~C:~J. 1:hdt IAlE:~ can pr·ouide a good, ded:i catE!d s ~H' 1;-i, c (:! I:H~ I~IAlfHHl F cH' Cc~l~)(,~ '1. l. i:Hld r 0 g 0 and a dedicated seruice between Fdr(:~I~Hdl. o.Hld Chi:·11'1l:JC"! Jsl.r:Hlds. T ·.ind:lccd.l~d, :i.r1 Cornrn:itb;!e Jast IAJE:H:1k, M r . S p C:~ i'l k H r' , r:1 n d ''1 g"' i. n 'i. n 1·. h o Hot.tsE:~, that tl'tf~ Beaumont Hamel 1 s u s (~ <.·1 g C"! IAliJ\ s a r o 1 1 n d 1.1. 8 fHH' c fHl 1: . I IAlf.lS IAIY'Ol'lg 'in that f'igure.

I haue i.t upgr·adod, as r'1 Tlli:1t.L·.c;!r' oF f,:,cl : . :r had a ITISE:1'I:'ing tAd.'Lh my offic'ia1s and T IAli:lS l:old that. H1e ut:i l:i.zaU.on is roughly ar·ound 4·2 l:o IJ.3 pcH' c c;! n t. So IJ,Je f c;! c-?.1. t.i'H'I t be c au s e of that we can pro u idE! a good SE:1ru·'i.cE!, C.'l ded:i.catE!d ser·u:i . cc-?., to both ChangE! IsJ.ands and Fogo. We Udnk :it. is a IAlOY'kabl.H sol1~ti.on to the transportation problem ther·e.

G.iuc.;!n thE:1 faci- . , agr.d.n, that we haue used the ferry on the t.IAlO runs fr·orn SC:~pl:f~lfii:H?.r to DeCE:'I'nber· of 1987, whi.le the Change Tsl.ands fc,~r-r·y, I·:.I·H,~ Agnes and Anne, was being refitted, Mr. S FHH·1 k 1::1 r , 1: h fH' (~ a r e g o -L n g t o h ''~ 'H~ to be,~ sonw sch~H1u1:i.ng changes put i. n p 1. r:,J, c 0 . T. h <·1 u ('! s 0. i ·. u p )()(.'! ('! t ·i. n g s 1~ri t h my off oi c :i a 1. s a n d t he L r' r:-1 n s p or' 1: i'l 1. -L o n c: o 1 nrn "i. ·1-: i': f~ c,~ s of F o (d o r.lnd Ch<-lngE! Islands to go ouer· these,~ changc,~s. Mf~.

SPEAKl::R: --··------·-··- The,~ t-. - i.tnc,~ for 0r'<·1l QIIC::~sl: · ions has e]<:!psed. Private Member•s Day Today is Pr:i.uat.c-?. Mf:nnbcH' 1 s D<·1Y, and I will call on the hon. the member for' Sl:. John 1 s E<:lst. Extr~r·n. T h to?. h o n . t h e TrH'!III b f~ r f o r' ~l t . J o h n 1 s East: Ext:.E!rn. I 1 '7 94. May 11, 19 8 8 Vol XL !:lOME l-ION. MEr'! A F r~S : Hear·, hear! MR. PARSONS: Thank yo11, Mr·. !:lpEH·1kfH'. I L i s 1: r,, r' ·l". '" ·i. n l y <'I p l e ,.'1 ~' u r' c;• f o I" n1 E! today to he able to rise in my p l '~' 1: f~ i:·l n d p r' 1,~ :; C'! n ·L·. 1-. o 1:·. h -L ~; h on .

House a rcc'soJ.ution . I suppose IAJ'i. l·. h 1110 ·i.l: 'i_ s l . ln:i . ql.lf~, b('!Cal.IS(~ i.t. not aJ.one acldl"essE!S ti·H:! Island pr.H''i".. or Ol.lr' Pr'Oiri . ncE~ J bu ·t mor'E! directly a part of our Prouince I.•Jh 'i. ch sotnet:i.Jnf~s. Mr'. Sper:~kE'!Y', is taken for granted. Mr. Speaker', w:i.th that scdd, and 1 tv.i.ll c,~ l.abor·ai-.E:! on rny l:i.ti:.J.r::~ prE!arnblE! latE!r on, I tJJould J.ikn to r'f:!ad ·~ : he t"c"!soJ.1.1t:ion into the record.

WHEREAS the Prouincial Gouernment h r:,, ~' h ;~ d c on s :i. d C"! r· <:·1 b l ('! s u c c C'! s s .:i. n strengthE!njng thE! forE!St Jnclust:ry on l·:hf'! Tsl.c'1nd of Nr'!IAJfOIII'lcllancl through mill upgrading and s :i. l. IJ 'i. c: 111 t u r (~ ; a n d ~~HFI~FAS l:hPr'f.) ·i. s merchantable timber cons i.dc;!r't:·\bl.c;! :in EastE!I"I'l I_ d b r' 1:-l d o r' ; r:-1 n d WHF.I~F(lS ·l:hr-:! G()IJf:!r'nl'llc-:!n-1:: has bOE!rl fOI"E!St. (Ldkc ,1 mel I< in g f~ F for' t:. s to dE! u E! 1 o p a tndush"Y in i':hH Coos: :! l3i:·1 Y M '~ 1 u i J. 1 E! ) a r' e a ; BE TT THEl~f::FOf~F RFSOI ..

VFD l:: hal : t:his Honourable HouSE! go on r'E!Cor·d as encouraging the Government to contJ.nue its efforts to bring a Forest Industry to Lctbrador. Mr. Speaker, I am sur~:! hon. HH~mbfH' ·in t.his hon. relate to the history of b ~~ t 1 t. h i. n k p '~ r' h"' p s reminisce a lttt:le and that Housp can Labrador, IAJ(,~ IAl'.:i. JJ l:alk c1bout . Lc11:H'C.'Idor' <'ll'ld, I ~;ay, ·i.i:l; un:iqUE! situation. Fr·om 'its inCE!ption, l_t:~ b r d d 0 Y' IAli~ S C J ;;1J l'lll'! d by many No. 34 R 17 9 4.

countries, inclurling Canada, F n g J a n d cHl c( F r a n c E:1 , 1 o n g bE! forE! Confeder~ti.on by Newfoundland and Canada. It lAJas not until 1927. by

an Act. of the Privy CouncU., l::h,;d:-. Net~<.JfoundJ.and uJas atJ.JardE:1d Labrador, and, Mr·. SpE:Hi\ker·, r·'i.ghtl.y so. Il: was always considered by NetJ.JfoundlandEH'S a par·t. of HH:1 Island of Newfoundland, not geographically but historically. Mr·. Spe<:~I<EH', t.•.Jh(;!n we ~;~H~ak i''bout Labrador· and its part and parCE!l of Nc,11AJfoundl.Hnd, agf't..i.n, I Si:ly, 1.1.Jf~ take many things for gr·anted.

We 1 o o k R 1:: r· f~ s o u r· c: r,1 s t. h r:t -1.: d r· ~~ e lJ r,1.r evident in I abrader and we can say 1:0 OI.IY'St=!llJOS, 'i':Jri S "i. s SOlflt:!Hdng n E:H"'J , t: h :i s i s of t h e 1 9 S 0 s a n d 1.900s. Aut~ Mr~. Spc.~~~kr:!r .. , Lhc:'ll··. ·i~; Y'E'i'..lJJy not the l:r·uth E:dther·. L H b r d do r· h "' d .~~ n i. n d 1 1 s 1: r·y "i. n I: h c~ Sixb~E!nth CenttH'Y, 1..1.1hen J iH'9E:1 1.1.1 h a 1. H s IJ.H:! r· r->. I< :i.ll c,1 d .

T n d c~ r,1 r:l , 'in all the country and the United S t c.~ I~ E:! s a s IJ.JC'! 11. , -i. 1... h a d t: h c~ f 'i. r· s t o :iJ -pr·oduc:i ng E:1S'I:clblishrnc->.nt in Nor·th Arnc;!r·-i.cc:t; i.t IJ.Jas 'i.n RE~d B<''Y. So th:i.ngs just d:i.d not st:arl: t-.o happen in Labrador recently, as thE:H'e wen'! t/ri.ngs happen.lng there as far back as the Sixteenth C e n t u r y , a t. l. c,1 c!l s t . A g a .i. n I repeat, it was American's f:i.rst oil refinery and it was at Red B~y. Mr·.

Speaker·, in l:. he r·c;!sol.ut.ion today we deal with a resource that cannot and tAJ'i.ll not j11sl-.'i.Fy stand:ing r.tlonE!, :it. has to l:w e1 s s o c i H ~ f'! d 1.1.1'i 1": h o 1·. h H r r· n s o u r· r: I'! s and other :industries in the l. <.·,br·c:·u:lor· iH'E'!i:·'. Mr·, :1pr,~a!<,~r, we i:.li"E~ ti'.JJ.idng pr•:irtli'.lrj]y of Lhe GOOSE! B ,:., 1J I . a k r;! M 1;! 1. lJ ·i ll. ~~ r!\ r· f'! c' .

I "' k 1;• MI'::'Jv-jl]E! .is a lake of dpprox ·i tnah,1ly rl"i.nt'!l:y lllilt,'! > long i'Hid i~I"OlJtid 't!Aiert'l:.y rn:i J.c,1S lAJ:i dE:1, i'.lnd t. h,~r·H t :i tribE~ I" <.·\ r·o lJ d s l: 'in t·hat ln fi:tc 1.:, "i.1: hi'' s 61 r· 0 d s () r l) 'i. r· g ·i. n particular area. b I'! <:! n s 1-. d ·1-. f:! cJ l ... h '" 1: L.179S May 11, 1988 Uol XL :i.i: holds ;qroiJnd 50 nti . ll ~ i.on cor·ds of pr·ime wood. In fact, Mt~. Spt:1i!\kc->.r, bE~c<:·,u~;<~.

"'g"' -i.n, of t.he geographies of it, weather cond :i ·t.:.i. ons and t~.Jhatevc->.r', l:: h<;! gr·a:ln of wood in l a brad or is onE! of t: hE! best fi.bres in the world. Mr. SpE!aker, in saying that, thjs r'E~SOIH'CE:~ lAJ"i.l.l have 1:.0 bE! developed.

And t.~.Jhat: thj s Pt~ov:incE! has b<,1 E:~n doing oi.s using evEH'Y means at its disposal to dE!VE!lop "'lon-g l-:hc~ 1. i.nE~s so nc,1CE'!SSdtny For· the good of Newfoundlanders and l.i:-lbY't''dor· i.c:,ns, r"'r·' Spoi'l!<er J I~J('! only hi'll) (;! l::o lo o k at IAJhat happenE!(~ in LhE! 1950s to l.<:·,br·ador· .:-1nd i l:•; ntd-i. n r•(;!SOI.IY'Ce, Lhat we see every day being talked c:·,bOIIi:; HIJf'!r'lj dc'ly "i, {- ·i.S bE:! ing sought after by the Ne~~oundland Co lJ fH' n1no nt to h<'HJ u 8 00 me,, g diAJF.ll:: 1:. s returned to the Province, and I s p E:! .:., k s p t-:! c i r :i. t: <:~ ·1 1. y 0 f C h I .1 r· c h -i.ll Falls.

M r· , S p 1';:1 a k e r , I h a v E! Fri.c,1nds hE!r'E! i.n 1':1·1e g<'ll1t:H'Y l::odmy and from my area - SOME HON. MEMBERS : H e a r· , h c,1 a r· ! MR. PARSONS: and I will u n e q u i. v o c a l.l y , l them that there say uri.lJ. uli.11 F r· o rn To r· b a y to g u a r· iHl tc,1 E! bE! noth:ing t.•.Jh'.i.l.e l:: h:i.s and IAJhJ] E! g"i.vt->.n auJ<'1Y -Ln Labr·ador· governme!nt is in po!AJer Hd s Pr'C:!Irti.c->.r :is .i.n potAJC'!r'. SOME HON. MFMBERS : Hear·, hear! MR. PARSONS: TTi-r'! r· r:;--,~J:i:-11.-- b C"! no l h "i. n 9 9 -j v <Hl rH•.J a y .

ThE:~ rc~sour·ct:~ :is t:hC'!r'E~ and l..hC'! r· e s o 11 r· 1: o w-L ., l. b P d t:1lJ I'! 1 o p f:t d ·i. n <:~ IAiay t:hclt : 1AJ:i11 hc,~lp Nt::~wfoundJ and<:!r·s '''nd l,i·1br·ador·"i.,:·,ns. :30MF iiOI\J. MFMB FRS : No. 34- R179S

MR. PARSONS: We are not greedy, If t:hc,1rc-?. is Jots of "i.s MR. PATTFf~~:>ON : Not likE~ t.hE:1 d:i.r·ty g i::l l) (,~ "i. 1·: (.•\ J. l .:-\l~k\ y . MR. PA I~ SOW) : Mr• . SpE:~i:\I<Pr'. :i 1:., and there"! l..:iber·aJs, t..uho -and the potE:~nt'.ial :is t: hE:1r·e, and 'i. f t. h (;! r' f~ :i. s l o i·. s o f rn o n E:! y 1'-. o b (~ derived from the resources and the eft:! v Co1 'l o ptnc~ n L i. n I_ i:'\ b r·ad or, IAJ<~ IAJO t.tl.d not mind a l:d.t of a sp:i.n-·off, u.te tAJOtJl.d no L mi. nd l.c-:!1·~ t-i.ng thE! Mainland takE! some of it, but NewfoLtndl.ander·s cHld Li:tbn-ldor i.ans first. SOME HON.

M~MBERS: Hear, hE~ar! MR. PARSONS : And, Mr'. Sper.tkE!r, I can guarantE!e th i.s hon. Ho1.tSC:! the:·\ t 1'-.ha·l: w i.l.J. happen, becr-.wsE:1 t.h:i s govc~!rnment is not goi.ng i'ld hocl.y -i.n~o r'lnyHdng, th-.i.s govt:~rnmc~nt is going to make S I.Jr' E! I·~ h i.'1 t 1'-. h r'\ t r' (~ S 0 I I r C C;! :i. S developed, and deve-?.loped along Lhe 1. i. n c,~ s l~lf:~ c d n 1. i. tJ c,1 wi 1·. h MR. PATTFf?SON: For Newfoundlanders . Mf?. PAI~~)OI\JS: for Newfoundlanders and I..C\ b rna do r' i.r.~ n s . !:UL_.f.0J T F f~ ~?..C! 1\J : No rnor'E>. Chur·ch:i lJ Fall!> . MR. PAf~SONS: M r' .

S p E! a I< (-:! r· , IAJ h C"! n IAI E! 1. o o I< a t t. h Co' Church :ilJ Falls Hydro, people may say, Well., what. r'E:!l.at-Lonsh .. i.p doc;!s that. haVE! tAlit : h thE! forest :indus~.r·y? [L hr:u> evc-H'Y b'it. of a rE!]at.i.onship to 'it, bE!CclUSE! it is go'i.ng t.o bE~ nc,!CC-?.s~;ar·y to dc,1VCO!l.op L1796 May 11., 198 8 Vol XI .. L h H f o r <-?. s t. .'i. n d u s 1: r· y i. n 1.. a b r· ad o r . WE:1 can look at the dE!V(~loprnent tn Cht.tr'ch i.l.J. F;::tl.l.s, 'I rn:i.ll"i.on horsepoWE:1r, Mr·. Speaker, and just tJ ·:J. s 1.1 rq l.

"i. z E~ t~l h ;::~ 1·: 1·: hi.~ L c o t.tl. d d o e~ s far· rlS :industry is conCE!rrH~d. flf!Ci:·\I.ISC;! I:: Odf·\y "J.ndtiSl:l"lj, IAJi.l:h \::hc0 n e t..u t E! c h no 1 o g y a n d tAl h a L E! v E! r' , pl. r~ c: f~ ~; r\ n c~ tJ co! r· y r· f~ i~\ -1-. E~ ,., cl E:. l'lk\ n c:l on the-?. eJ.E:1ctr·:icoiLy suppl:ies fot" any k "ind of c:lotJul.oprnc~nl :. M r' . 5 p f~ r'\ k l:! r' , o n I: h ''! I. i'\ I< E'! ME:~ l v :i. ll e , GoosE:1 Bay ar·ea.

I Lhink Chulnch::l1] Fdll.s ··i.s p(,'r'i'ldps :?30 or· 21.1.0 kilometres from Goose, and there I~Jot.tl.d be'! qt .t.i.I:.C'! an (;!XFJE'!nc:l'i.t.ur·r,~ "i.n bringing hyde power to any kind of r·esour'ce dE~Vc-:!l.oprnent. -i.n that. area. But there are two other sil·:c,~s. Mr·. SpccHill((;!r', Gull IsJ.iHld and Muskrat Falls. Now Gull I s 1. and c i.'l n d <.;! l -L v <'' r· l 7 0 0 rn r:.~ g a IAJ a t: t. s of power, if dE!VE!lope•d, and Musl<r·a.t: Fr~l.l.s can dc-:!l."i.vc~!r' 600 megawatts. But, Mr .

SpeakE!r, t. h c,, r· e 'i. s i:'l c o s t f a c 1:. o r· h f'! r· E:! , -i. n that if we were to develop Gull T.sl.r~nd, -L I~ IAIOIJl.d be;! only 'I:IAJ'i.CE! tht:~ cost of the development of Muskrat Fi•\lls. ,,,Jhal·. !~)(-?, rH'f~ Sdy'i.ng "i.!; IAH"! iH'E:1 getting 1700 mE!gat.~.Jatts for· f.: t~r i. cc,~ l:: hf:1 rnonl:!IJ l : :h;::~f: :U: t~Jot.tl.d cost us to develop Muskrat, so there hdS 1".0 bt:! SOHIC,~ c:on~; i.dHY'r'\ 1·. -i.on g :i.VE'!I'l to thc,1 dt:'veJoprrtE!nt of LhosP Fall.~;. M r' . ~-) fH~ a k n r· .

Agajn, tf l:.he r·esout"CE• i!> c:l o tJ c,1 l. o p c,1 c:l , a n d 1·: h ('! r' f~ -i. s no r' E:~ a s on why it: cannot bE!, :it: has Lobe c1 o n E~ ·i. n c o n j u n c 1-. i o n IALi. 1': h ITii:'t n y other factors. I have already rnc~nt · i . on(!d one-?., Mr·. 5poal<c->.r', Lhe hydro need For any dE!veloprnEHlt IAI:i.Ud.n Lhat. iH'EH~. Mr'. Spc,~akE!I", IAJe also have to look at ot:hE•r ar·eas. We hdve to look at thE>. transportation aspect: of it:; we hctVC-:! to look at Lclkl~!

Mc;!l.v'.'i. l l.c,~ nou.t being only accessible for a few 1110 n 1:: h s o F +: h o y e <.·\ r· . 3 u t. t h :.i. n (~ s No. 3LI· R1796

'~ri.lJ. hr.~IJO · ~o chr:-ll'l9f~ if l~hat-. 'i.s g eLi n g t. o be 1:1 success . If we~ a r· e 9 0 .i. 1'1 9 1·: 0 h r'\ V E:~ S U C C f'! S S 'i. rl ·j_ n d II S 1: r• lj '.in thCJ.t par•ticuJ ar arE!a, then IJ.Je are go·ing to haue ~o look at s por·t. that although ice ]aden can be,~ pf~l'lf:~l:.r·at.~:!d, can bE~ us~~d by shjps that ar·e r·einforced and can ply, can use t.hat bi'\IJ to corn(~ i.n for the resource that would be rnanufac l~tu·ed in UH:1 U~kf~ Mc,11v i l.l.e arE!a. AN HON. MEMBER: YoiJ must h;~ve spf~nt. somE>. t. · i . lnE~ there. MR.

PARSONS: Tl~ i. d S fHHl~j SOlliE~ t: "i.lllf~ II p 1:: h C.;! r P. . T spent tirnE:1 in Goose and I can r·P.l.. :~l:o to l.:hr:·\1.: as I~JC,1ll.. T do not: E:1Xi~ttJ y i<riOlAI 1101JJ, bPCaUSE! Jt j S IJC:'r'\1"!; d90 si.l'lCI'! T IAidS i:hc-:!r'r:1, bill·: r: r·erll(~rnbel" thf~ G iH'f~a.

WE:! usli:H~ t·o go 011l-. i·.hr'!r'l·~ f ·ish :L ng, h11nl·:ing dnd whr.ltli:1Vf>.l" I c:~nd l:.hr:1 !> t1:1nds of tirnbc~r· (•\ l1Aii:'\ lj !; i~\Hit.-l J.: Od II((~ . r: 1: lAid!) I) 'i.i" 9 -j_ rl r.otHltlny c-:tnd :it. still stC~.ndsl IAii'Lh 1·: h 0. ox c: r,1 p 1·. ·Lon of' r.1 nu rn b H r· o f c: o r• d s tha ·t tJ.Jere taken during the timc:1 of 1. oi. rH'! r· l:lO a r d , 1:-\ n d IAI e <:H' C:~ n o t g o -L n g to discuss that. We can discuss h y d r o , b u t T r:u n n o I~ s u r· 1'.~ lA I hi. c h i. s wo r· s e . MR. HODDER: ThH wood the;! rH .is the be;! s l: fi. br· e in thE! IJJOrld. MR.

PARSONS : The best f:i.br'E! in the tJ.Iorld. A g a :i n , IAJ h a t h a p p <'! n E! d '·~ r i. I~ h 1:: h ('! J.tnEH'board m:i.11 iJJas v;:::r·y s:1.rnple. I rnP i'l. n , :i. I~ p 1. a y f:! cl a r· o 1. e "i. n 1·: h (:1 failure of the linerboard mill, be<:r:HISl~ l~lhE!n t.he~ I~IOOd arr•j, Vf~cl r:\'1.: Stsph8nviJJe it was too expensive; "i. t: jus 1:. 1~1a s not F oa s ~i. b l.r:!; i. l: l~lr'\S not pr·act:i .cc:ll; j t IAii:ts not (;! C 0 n 0 lfri. C ;:~ 1. r:Hl cl t. h r'\ i". ·j ~; I~ I h y ·i l'. failed. Rut, the wood it there. Mr·. 1.: h!) 1.1 g h 1·: h.:-\ ~; 1.. 1797 Mc:~y 11, 1988 Vol.

XI... b e H n p 1 1 1·: -i. n l: o l:lri s , a n rl c C:~ r· t '" ·i n 1. y an anr..tlysis has been don121 oVE!r' a pEH'·:i.od of· IJ(~ar·s. ('II-. OI'H~ t .. i.IIH?., I think in 1980, thE! M.U. Arctic -i_ 1~ I Alii\ s a j o .. i. n I~ IJ e n I~ u r· (~ o f 1:: he fedE!ral and provincial gove'!l"nrnE!nts 1-: r· :i. f:~ d , T. t. h i. n k i n F ('! b r· u a l" y o r E!arly March, to navjgatE! LakE! Mel.v i l.J.c;! r:'lnd IJ.Ii!1S qu 'i t.e successful.

It certainly is not f "i. n a l. :i. .1. e d a s t o 1.~1 h a t I~ y p C'! o f b o a 1:. could be USE!d I but thE! point r'E:1rna·i.ns t.h<:tt th(~y ,J·id succ(~('!d. Mr. SpE!akE:1r, that sor·t of analysis a n d -L n v E! $ f:.i. g a t i o n IAri. 1.1 h a v C'! 1:: o g o into it. Again, this governrnE!I'll::l IAihen l:hf:! r·esour·c~~ is d(~Vc-?.J.Opf:!d, i.s going to do it in a righteous lflr:-lnn<"!Y' and a'l.l. thosr~ Hspc-?.cl:: s of the development w:i.J.J certainly i'J d

I) f~ ·J: () b f~ "i, n I)(~ S [·. -i, CJ f.·\ 1". f'! d . i"'r·. ~pr:~d k1c~t', I~Jhf~l'l IAH~ S Pf~d k 0 F i:: h('! f CH' li:~ s t r E:1 s o u r c e :i n 1.. a b 1n a d o I" 1 IAH" hdlJI'! l:o l:lri.nk dbl)lli: COOSf'' Hr:'ly r:'ll'ld IJ.Jhat Goose Bay is r.~J 1 c:1bout . Go 0 s H ll i'·\ lj c r'\lflf:~ ·i. n 1·: () -i_ 1.: s 01~11'1 ..-i. n 1:: h ('! 1940s, IJ.Jhc~n th(-?.

Amer·icans earn,,~ in l:hf!t'H dl'ld b11i.l. ·l·. d bdSf'!. ll: IAii~S the first base in this part of the 1~1or·J.d l · :hr:~t IA!i:\S usod by thc,1 F~H"·I"Y Cornrnand to fE:1rry planE!S from th:i.s p.:-lrl:: of 1-:he wor·ld acr·oss to Europe. Runways were bu'.ilt, and th("SC:?. r·uniAiri\IJS t•.Jl;!r'c,~ exl::~~nclt;!d in thE! fifties when SAC was there, St:r•att::1gi .c A .. Lr· Command, IAJh:ich utilized those runways until, I Ul"i. n k , 1':. h ~~ J. a t e 1. 9 6 0 s . But, Mr.

Speaker, the runtJ.1ays ar('! 1:. h c-?. 1:· ~~ , r· u rll~li:l 1J s t-. h a 1:. c a n 1:·. a k E! a n y typ:::: plane, any size planE:' i.n !-:hE! IAJO r·ld . And c lH' r.r,d. n 1. y i. f tAJC-?. IAIC:H'<-'! going to create an :industry UlE:~I"B, IAH'! i'IY'f:! go'i.ng to hr .. wo d mode;! o-F transportation, at least an ;~'i.r· ·l .: ypr,~ tr·dnspor·t:d·l: ·i.on, l::hi;ll: i.s so nc-?.cessar·y for· any indust.r·y l::o s 1.1 r· v ·i IJ (,1 . Mr·. SFH>.aker·, I mighl add here that COOS~:' flr:ly, d<.:Jr:l-i. n, No. 34 rn797

essent:'i.al po-int, i.t Ls the cog of the tJJheE!l for· thE:~ development of I_ a b r· a d o r· , i. n ·1··. h i.'l t p d r· t :i. c u '1. a r· arE!a. Bc-".causE!, belteu(:~ :iL or not, we look a f:: Labr·;:~cfor r.~nd say s n01.111 and frost, and 1.11hatE:~ver, js a11 you gc;d:. dOIAJn l:hcH'P. ThCII: 'i.s nuL J"ed1ly tr·tH~. It Js thE:~ clc~~anE!St c1s f'"lr i'IS I~JC'!d'l:hor· conci ·i. l:i.ons i:'tr·~,~ concc~~r·nE~d .... Jam not sur·E~ :in Nort.h {)lf)(cH'"i Cd, b111·. T dl() SIIY'H "Ln Cr:'ll'li:'\di~.

J t- :i. ~; HIO r' E~ E:~ a !) ~i J. y a C C (~ S S :j b J (-:1 J ti'HH'I;! ·i.!; l.'i.i--1-.1<:' " i.nh~~r·for'C'!J'lCC'! f"r•orn 141 E~ <'J t h E:H' c o n d j t: '.'i o n s , 6l n d :i t. j s not. 1~1 hat·. Til P r~ 1.: s I· h H C'! y e , · i -1- i s no L t~J1·1 d 1-. lAIE:~ -1': h :i 1'1 J< • A 1·1 d :1. t. j s t~ b o o rrd n g c e n t EH' r· :i g h t now. TI'HH'e r:'li"P r:-1. lol : of people,~ 1ool<:ing for· For·est deuelopmE!nt, look-Lng For dE~vc~~loplnen · l-. l::o cr'('!r'lt.E:! jobs.

Again, I listened to the member for Naskdupi d few days ago when he said there were still people unemployed .in Goose Bay. My own son was down in Goose Bay a couple of weeks ago, and he was amazed. He said it Js a humdrum of activi.ty, so much acti.v'i.ty t·.hal: it surprisE! d him . I imaginE! that N E!IAJf o u n d land and l. ''t brad or· l·i o us in g arc-". go:ing to hav~:~ to go in thE!re and b u "i.l. d d p d r· 1·: rn r-~ n 1-_ s , or b 1.1 .. i. '1. d accomrnodatjons for peop1e to move lnto ~he Goose Ray area.

A l ~; o , w (~ h r·' v r:! ; : h (~11~ r-:! , r"' r· . s p f;! <~ k f'! r· , and :r CCII'I t'.\ssoc:.iCite t.o :it myself, l:he dock ~;ih~ in lldol.bollr'nl-~ r3,:·'Y· Thf'! AntE:!r·:icans bu:i] ·t- t:t finE! dock s ·i 1·: f'! t: h C:! r' ~~ , '" n d , i:\ g ;:., i. n , ·i. 1-: '~li:-1 s only t:ICCE:!SS:ibJ.E:~ fi"OITI about JtHl(~~ to 1\J () v f~ rn b (;! r . ilt I 1:. I M r· . ~:; p f~ r:·) k f'! r' I i. 1-. "i_ :; t-hc~~I"C·! . It :i!> insidE! in WE:1lbour·nE:' B ''' y , "' n d i. l: c E! r 1.: "' "i. n 1 y r: o 1 1 l d b o ava:-iled of. The dock there, I bco~lic-".V(~, '.i!; i.·)bout.

BOO fnE:!t. long and about 9 mE!tE!rs deep. So it certainly has Lhe waLer capdbil:it'.iE:!S of br:inging jn large ships, and certainly has the length to sC~tisfy the needs of those large ships. 1..1798 May 11, 1988 . Vol XL Agcdn, Mr . Sper:tkcH', l::hosC'! structures are! thE!re. Sorne oF thE! infrasl::ructure we would need is a 1 read y t he r e , be c au s <'! j t: 1.~1 a s built by the people who were there before, in the 1950 1 s and 1960 1 s. Ml".

Speaker·, thE:>r'C'! j s al.so anoi':.her· por·l: ·l · i·lc,H'r~~. dnd T Cr.Hl r·f~IIIC'!Irtl:l<'!Y' goJng up there many years ago. rl11l·. :r: Cr'll'l !)1·:!1'! not~J, by look "i.ng <:'II':. this p'.ictUI"E! of jt hE11"<~~. thaL iL is cnr·l:.:, ·inl.y l ·Lni<r:!d by r·oc:-1d. TL: lAJf..tS J:inkc~~d thc~~n by r·oad, but I "i.IIIC:·)(_:j i.n1~ i:hH Y'OrHJ~; r!IY'f'! HIUC:h bc;d:'i::fH' noiA1 than th~HI. That ::i.s :i.n NOI"'i::h ,,,Jcc!S l'. R·i lJHr' nnd 1\Jor·l-.:h WC'!Si':. l:'o i.n t .. Now, that is out on the point, Sor•t Of, IA1~lf'!l'l yOU rH'E'!

COrrt.i.ng clOlAln the coast, and '.if UJr.l t we r'E! u t .. i l. i L f~ d , "'g ;:' ·i n by a r' o ad l. :i. n k , .i t might be more feasibl.e to use Nor · ~h WE:~s 1: Point Lhan l~o colfiC'! inl:o Welbourne Bay, to the American dock s"i.l:e. B u 1': , M r' . S p c-?. a k C:! r· , ·i f d c,~ v ~~ 1 o p rn e n t is to take plaCE!, thE!I'l IA1E! haVE! to l.oo!< a ·l: .i.nfr·<:~s+:r·uc+·. ur·c~~ ·in thc,1 Lt:,1kE! Melville area, and WE! have to look t:l. t r.' dock s i. l:: ('! "i. n +.:hat a r· E~ d , 1 r-- tJJe go ,~'ight up t:o the head of LakE'! Me l.tri .1.l. r~ . l!lh:!

IAJi.l.l hi.·1lJf'! to look r'lt., clo1AJI1 Lhc;! road, I suppoSE!, a townsite~~ and a I~J·'I 1: c,1 r· s up pl. y . T h H r· f:• r:-1 l. ·i. n +: c,~ r' l:! s 1-: t.hat this govE~rnmE:~nt: has :is ::in a 1-· h ::! r•rn<·) 1 me c h ;:~ n i. cr:·) l p l•Hl t . IJIJ i"li:'t t t•.Jr::• t . h o u g h t· a b o u t y E:~ a r· s r.l g o , b r· J. n g j n g i · h o s c,~ 1 o g s fro rn ·1: h f'! l. r:-1 k e f"' e l. lJ t 1 l r'! area to other parts of I\JI:!l~lfOllnd1 . dnd frH' pr·odtiCI ". i.on, just: d-:id not: ITif.ltc~~r:i. alize; it:. tAJr.ls Lao C~1 X fl (~ 1'1 S ·j ~~ E! b IJ 1: h f'! 1-.

" i . lflf~ IAJO 1·: 0 0 k 1: h ('! IAJood from Labrador and br·ought: it l": o o 1·. h c;! r· <:1 r· ('! "' s u f '1-:. h E:! P r' o v i n c E! . Now, Mr·. Speaker, jn this t.hE!rrnaJ pl '""' I~ , T d 111 J. f~ ,:-ui 1': o b <~' 1 i r:w E:! I know very little about it, only wh<:ll:. I r·r:~ad. T havE:! nPvr:.~r seon it. But they tE!l] rne thE! way it :1. s d o n ~~ ·i. s t t. "i. s p r· o c e s s E'! d , s o I" I~ No. 34 R1798

of, in like b~l.es of hay . r"'R. STMMS: Inst· c~nt puJ pwood . Ml~. PARSON~3: lL · i.~; .i.nstanL pulp1~1ood, yf:!S. Tl: is baJed and is much easier trdnsported, with the cost originating right at the spot. NOIAJ, thai:: i.s I~Jhy T i.'\ITI +:.t·ytng to link the hydro and this devel.oprnc:'!nt togHthc-:n·.

Bec<\WSE:1 -J.f IAJB had our OL"HI developtnE!nt thE!re, our OIAHl hydr·o poi~Jc:'!r, IJ.Jhi. ch IAJc:'! again have lots of, and that IAJas c h e c!A p e r· b e c <:<~ u s '"' o f l.d ~HH' c,~ IAJ c,1 t•.J c;! r· ~~ , then we couJ.d bring this out in b u 1. k for· 1r1 , l. i. k e b I'll e s of h ;:~ y , c:~ n d it could be a viabJe operation. B u t·. , r.·l CJ i:l ·i. n , i . 1.: i s d r-~ p c,1 n d f~ n +: o n fllc:tny facl~or·s: Ti: is depE!ndE!nt on h y d r· o , i.·l c c o s s ·i. b i. l. i. l: y t o co o s c,1 Airport and road links.

A1·1d !;orn~:!t J.me l n the;! future, Ml". ~) p (,1 <'\ !< P r• , I: h f:! r• 0 d c:J I~J ·j_ l. l . b H 1- ·i. n ·i. ~; h (·~ d aci"Os!; Lcilbl"adoi". I th:i.nk t:her·f~ <'lr'C~ dboul : fi.fl:y or· S"i.xt·.y lfl"i.l . c;!~; l:. o go. When that :is compJeted, we IAJ'i.l.l. ht•lVf~ dC:C:~~SS i"i"OIIl i:hr.ll: par·t j cu] ar· ar'f>.a. Ml'', Speaker·, IAJC:1 spokf?. about the wood grOIAI'I-.h i.n L.abr·ddor·.

Labr·c.·u:lor has one lot of IAJOod UlE!Y'e, Black SpriiCl'! we all knOIAJ what Blacl< Spruce is and ii:s content is abo 1.1 t. 4-0 per· c c-:'! n t. h 'i. g he:~ r· t: han t h c,1 Black Spruce on the Island part of our Proulnce. Percentage-wise thE!re is about 66 pE!r CE!I'lt Black Spr· ucE~, Snl.soin .1.;) t}lbout. 26 pc-:1r· cent, and Birch and other trees about 8 per cent. Mr·. Spc-?.c:~ker·, -1-.hf:!Y'E! i.s r.1l.so <.'tnot:her· :industry that couJd be dE!Veloped, and ·i.s d~~Vf~lop~:!d l::o soHif'! f~xh=!nl· .. I oftc"'n th:i nk about IAJhc~1n Ar·rnstr·ong IAJf:! l'l i... t. 0 1:: h (·;!

HIO 0 1'1 r'l 1'1 d ~; 0 rrlf~ 0 1'1 f'! cu;l<c-:1d, 'Did he rnc~'E!L a NC'!IAJfoundl rHldC,H' I~JI·H'!I'l h(:! go 1: I 1.799 McilY JJ, 1988 VoJ XL thHr·~-:~? 1 r. <:~rn sl:i.ll l.~oJondf>.Y' " i.ng 'i.F thc:1re IA.Ias not one thE!r·~~. In this sHnsr~, --i.n l.,:~br·<:·ldor· l .. _hf'!Y'f'! 'i.s d 1nan from Flatrock who is in the lumber btiS:-i.l'lOSS. ~~f~ c,1lllfll.oys c •lboul~ thJr•ty people in the woods thE!Y'E!; hf:! has c:'l l1.1111 b f'! r· cl (·~ ,:, l (;! r· s h 'i p . H f:! h d s L: o 1. d me:1 on several occasions that thE!

IAJOod :i.s c:'!xcell.f:!nt For· pr·odL!cl::-lon, and he is SE!lling it localJ.y nOIAJ bf~causc;! h1-:1 just. cannot ITlf~l':!l:: t.he dennand. But he does haVE! a coup1e of sawmills there. And it. is certainly an inspiration to OlE! to sc,~e i.:hat t:hf~r-~1 is a lol:: o·f logJ.c, there is a lot of sense to thE! d c:1 v f~ J. o p rn c,~ n t of t:. h :i. s v a s l.: l" (,~ s o Lll" c (-:1 , in morE! ways than onE!; not aJ.onE! as pulp bul:, ·t-o <.·1 l.f:! ~_,s er dE!CJY'f'!C'!, lumber. M r· . Speaker·, a g a :in IA.Ie IAJJ.] ] hr.~ v c;! L o look .:-11: ·1'-he Hdppy v,., · ll.f~Y pi'\1" 1:. of it.

Happy Valley Js :in cJose f>r'ox Jrn-i ·1: y l:o r;oo s n, on l. y d h'!IAJ m:ilf:~s away, and has gr' OIAJn '.i.n s:i.Zf!! i:t'PHIOI'lc:iOII<;l y Ol.J(H' l:h('! ·1 ,:·IS 1:. l''illlrib~: !r' of yc,~c:lrs. J 1:: has gi"OIAJn l'lOIAJ l:.o dbOIII . 7,000 p(,10pl(~. Jl::, i'II::JC!Ii.n, c e r t a :i n J y , h a s U1 (! :i. n f r a s l:: r u c t u r· ~~ r 0 r' HI 0 r• (:1 p ~>. 0 p l !o! (·. 0 g 0 :i. n 1:: h (,1 r· f!! ; ·i. 1:. has two hospitals, I bE!l-:i.E!VE:! Jt: h<:<~s S(· ~lJ(·Hl schools, dnd r··i.ghl:. now, I think, ther·e are 2, 800 studN1ts 1!\ I~ 1:. f'! n d J n g +·. h o s n "i. n s i:. ·.·i. 1: u 1-:.

"i. o n s , a n d t t has a l.c.Jater supply cornp1E•t.E!ly covering the whole 1'-own. Again, the infrastructure is aJ.ready laid out 1'-here, Mr. Speaker, and certainly it JAJould not be overburdensome on those towns to have more people come in. Mr. SpeakPr, just on a n<.·ll--.i.onc:ll.i.s ·l·.-i. c dspc:'!cl:: of t:h .i.s , as IA.Iell, thE! spr·uce t.IAJ-.ig is a symbol i. n l.t:~br·ddr:w, a s y11ll:)() J. t. hat-. t h1=! people are joined together.

It is un"i.CJI.Irc1, dnd 'i.l-. cHr'tdi.nl.y represents one of the industries 1·. h d I· I."' b t' r.·l do r· ·L s <:·l "1. l '-" b o 1 1 1·: , c:'' n d that :is its fore:1sts. No . 3 4 1n 799

I w'i.ll close 'i. t: up, Mr . Spc-?.r::lker. I will have time later on. I IAJOu1d just: l"i.ko t:o s<:,,y that. Lhe potential is there and I hope that t he h o n. Ho u s e s r:~c-?.s Fi. l·: l~o pass Lhis resolution without a. mc,~ndmc,~nl~ .. B(~Cal .

IS(:! l b(~l..-i _ c.~uc,~, a s is cJ early sta t ed ther ' E!, that we IAI<:-lrl 1-.: to C-H1COl.lr'i :·\9C.:! i·. hc.:! <.:JOlJC->.r•ntrl('!l11-: t-.. o g o a 1·1(,1 i'l. d , d o IAI h a t Co! x p e r· :i. mE! n t s , ;:~ n a l. y s e s o r· IAI h d t·. 1-~ lJ c.:! r· ··i s n (~ c c~ s s c:-\ r· y to make t:h:i s jndusti"Y u i abJ~1, and t o h;:uHJl.f ~ i··hH t'OSOIIt'C:~ "i.n ''11'1 Ol"dc->.rJy i.'.lnd ben~1f:jc:i.r.tl f r.~sh:ion for' f\J f~ IAJ f o u n r:ll. '-" n d r,~ r· s d n d I . ,,, b r· d do t' ·i_ ,:1 n s . Tl1r.~nk you, Mr·. ~3F,<->. i'.Aker·. SOMF" l-ION. MrMR F R~> : H f~ ;:' r' , h r,~ .:-l I'' !

Ml~. SPEAK F.: I~ : Tl'lf! hon . th~;;~ member' for· FortunE! - Hr:~ru1J · ~. age. MR. STMMON~> : Mr. Sp e ak<-:H', I am UE!Y' Y plE!aSE!d to par·t. :.i.c :ipate ·i_n +:h-L s d~~bate bol::h in terms of my assignment as the o f F ·i. c-i. a 1. 0 p p o s -i t. i. o n 1 s s p o k e s p e r· s o n on forE!stry matters, but also, Mr . Spc-?.aker·, tn l::cn·ms oF my association in my earlier years '"' i t h 1·. h e f o r c-?. s ·1: i. n d u ~; t r· y a n d w 'i. L h the net,Jsprint j ndustry, in par··t-.i.cul.mr·.

As mHny t.~>~i.l.l. knotAJ, as a child I l:luc,~d in Bishop 1 s Falls and IAJE! 1m~ rr:.~ j liS L ;:., lfl'i.l.H o r· s o ·fr·ow t h E~ o J d s u ] f j t. e p r· o c e s s p u 1 p rrr.U J Ln Bi shop 1 s Fcllls. J ndr:H,~ d, ju s 1: cl s r ~ nhHlCC '! or· 1-. wo O'F 1·1:1 s l-:OI"Y, j;J~~r·hdps i:l bit of unique h ·i_ s l: o I" y , --i. n 1·. h ,:., l· T ;-1111 n o l·. s 1 1 r· c'! l: h r,~ )JI" OC:(,'~\S us c~c:l oi. n lA.IOI"] d. tJ s o d j n n :i ~' hop 1 s Fa J] s IJJa s Hli'Hl y o 1·-.1-H:! r· p l a c C.:! s ·i. n 1-. h n Thr:,~ s ul.f :i te pr·o c c,~ s s lAJcl s c r;!

I" 1.: ;:1 ·-L n l. y 11 s f~ d q 1 1 --L 1·.: H u n ·i.

l) r~ l" s i.·l l. l. y , I do not rTIHiHI that, but pE!r·haps no I~ Hldl'lY of US dr'O diAk\r' c,~ +:.h;:·1l: onr:H the wood was cooked into pulp in a rn t 1.1. ·in B -;, shop 1 s Fa l. l s , -.-i. l:: IAii:t s thc,'n pumped und c::H·gr'OlHld for a distance of ni.ne rnil. e s, over <:-1 Ll800 May 11, 1988 Vol XL peri.od of forty to fif t y y e ars, pumped underground from Bishop 1 s F dl.l. s t. o t h 1::~ m ·i. 1.1. -i_ n G I" <:1 n d Fa 11. s and conVE!rtE!d from the puJ.p s tE~gc::• i. n l·: o p d p ~ '! r· a -1: G r· a n d F a ll s . I suppoSE!, in tE!rms of thE! E!COnorn'.iE!S i. n

l) o 1. u ~ ' ! rl , "i. ·t IAI d ~' F "i. n "' n c ··i. 1:'1 l. 1. y c o s 1:-. E!ff E! ct:.j U E! to br•i ng thE! IAIOOd dOIAJrl r· :i. u ~~ r· , c h ,:., n g r,, -i. 1: 1-: o 1·:. he p ul p s t: i\l g c;! b y t:. h e c o o k "i n g p 1n o c E! s s j n g a n cl t h E!rl sHnd ·i_l: back 11p ·i·:o Cr•.:,nd F;-,,Jl.s undE:~rground . NoiAJ my '.inuoJ uemen t IA.Icl s -.:i.n l..hE! 1. wl-. -1-. H r· s L:·\ g H oF l: IV·\ 1-. , i n 1-.: h f'' l. .i. FE'! of the pip eline opera t ion.

T he p i. pHl i n r:!, h.:-~u ·i ng bf~Hn in t:hH ground for forty or f:i.Fl::y years IAIH S r!O f: IAJhal: JJ-·. l.l ~)l:! d I:O bt:!, i_l-_: I.~JdS IAJ<-:~akc-?.n:i ng, thE! sj d c,1s of j t.: IAJ('•r'E:' I!J::! ,,, k H 1ri. 11 9 ; UH:! p ul p ·1 ·j n C'! IAk\ s o f' F our back gardE!n, about lSO fN!l ·. f r· o rn o u r' h o u s <"! , s o IAJ H I AI<'! r· (o! a b J. e , a 1 ] W :i n t e r J. o n g t o h a u E! s n OlAJ b a 11 fi. ghl::s and all SIHnrnc;·r· long t.o haVE! pu1pbal1 ftghts, and the la t: t E!Y', Mr· . ~>pc-?.aker·, L~JC::H'(~ rnu c h IIIOY'C:l deadJ.y.

What WE! lAJouJ.d do, to our shi:tlll<c~ nOIAJ, I g1H-:oss, IAJr.lS t. dkc-:~ a prong of some sort and jab the poi.nt. whare wa knew the'! pipe t o be just underground and you lAJould get 1:1 spur· t. of IAJi::tr·rn pulp s hool:-.ing 60 t:o 80 feet in thE:~ air; you IAJould g<:,-1-.hc;!r' l::h ·i.s pulp tnakH pu l. pb;:i~ll.s, and al s o make a good pulp fort. f3 y ·1·: h c. ~ !; f'! c: on d d r:-1 y , 1~1 · i t: h -1--. h ~ : ! c.:! F ·f t:'! c i: of dry-.ing out in i:he sunsh:i.nE!, you h.:-1d ;:., fd ·i_r·l.y cle,:,ldly opr::~r·al··. ion.

Indec-:1d, many r::l f r::~ l1otM, :inc] uding 1f1 y !) C'! 1. f , lA If~ f' (,~ I" I I :; I! C:! d 0 f f' C:' ··j l-: h ('! r• 1:: 0 t h e d o c t o r· o r· L o l :. h <-:~ h o s p :i '!-:. a ] 1."1 :i t-· h ;, s p 1. -; -1: ·i. n 1-. h P s c 1 1 .. , 1. d ~' d J" e s ul t: of hclu i ng on e puJpha]J t oo many :in 1·. h H s ·i d H o f l: h r~ h n "'d c I c .1 r' i. n < ~ <:,, n after schooJ fight:. NoiJJ, Mr. Speaker, that m-.-ight be un i q11c,~ ,:,s a " MR. OAlniE: I will not say it . No. 34- R1800

MR. SIMMONS: ThE! mc,11nbf'!r for St. George 1 s (Mr. Dawe) is probably thinking that the consequences of those knocks in the head are evident to this day. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SIMMONS: I arn becoming a mind reader i.n my old age, as well. Mr. Spe,aker, I had onE! other involvement with the pulp industry, whilE! I am in thE! business of confessing. When I had my high school education temporarily i.nb:H·ruph1d, in early Grade X, I needE!d a job and I IAJE!rl'l: bucks awi. ng .

I las 1:. <-:H:I l.es s t hc\1'1 a week and, I tell my friend From P o r· t d e G r· a v e , 1~.1 h o t a I< <-:1 s g I" E!i:~ t pride in his fisherman 1 s liCE!rlCE! -· hE:! is a part--t:llflo fi.shE,rrnan, Mr. Speaker, at J.east by licence and I believe by practice, as IAH,11l.. Indeed, I would gUE!SS he probably hauled to shore a few thousand pounds before he came here this morning. lie takes great pricJ<-:1 as a fisherman.

My pride is not as 1.uell justifiE!d in be:ing a forester, because I did have a bucksaw and I did spend four days in thE! woods, but I tell my friE,nd from Fogo, who has had some success in this matter, that at the end of fo1Jr days I quit and I actually owed the company money. i"'R. TULK: My father would disown you . MR. SIMMONS: Not.o~J, Mr. Speaker, for thE! record, least th·at bE!COif1(:1 somE' part of a nefarious story later· on, the ITIO n E! y IAJi:l S p i.·l'i d ·J. HirtlE! d i. C'l t e J. y , I:IAJE) }

I) P. dollars-and- ... sorneth:ing cents. Mr. SpE:1aker·, so much for· rny direct 1..1801 May 11, 1988 Vol XL involvement in thE! forE!st i.ndustry, but, by way of anocdote, I just wanted to draw attention to the tr·<-:~mendous and pr:,rvasivc~ impact that the forest industry, and specifically the newsprint industry, has had on th:Ls Province, particularly since the turn of the CE,ntury. In tE!Y'rns of the Bay d 1 Espoir area IAJB COIJ}d go back beyond that, of course, to the shipping of pit props from the Bay d 1 Espoir area, back in the 18 80s, t:o thc,1 mine"' s in Engl. and a 11d WaJ.es. So, Mr.

SpeakE!r, for 100 years or so this Prou:ince has had a very proud and vital association with the forest industry . As 1 s;:d.d, I grE~IAJ up '.in an ar·ro1f.l nE!ar thE! grE,at Grand FaLI.s papE!r· mtll, the old A.N . D, Anglo Newfoundland DeveJ.opiTIE!nt Cornpany M·i. l.l. , a 11 d we t•.H:! r ~~ us o d 1:. o a t r a :i. 11 going down by thE! back gardE!I1, a~; IAJe11, ·tak·i.ng t:hf'! papc;,r· fr·om· Gl"and Falls to Botwood . ~JE! IAJE!rE! USE!d l.o getting, as s cauengers, IAJha 1: IAJas known popularly in the area as Grand Falls canvi:l.S. The'' gE,nt:lernan frorn Exploits (Dr.

Twomey) IAJ'111 identify with that term, I believe, the old rniJ.l canvas, 'thE! Grand Fa1ls canvas. That. was the envy of many, if you wanted to have a rnat on your entrance porch, or something with which to rnakE! a lean ·-to in the woods, or a packsack. So, Mr. Speaker, rny po:.i.nt J.n making l:hose fairly sp€~cif :i.c refE:renCE!S attention of the House to the very pervasive influencE! that Hw Forest industry has had in this Province. To come, Mr. SpE!akE!r, j us t <:1 J: i. t i: l.

E~ rno r· ~1 d i. r e c t 1. y to thE! resolution itself, though, thclt J.nfluE!rlce, IAJI1tch has bE!UI'l -Ln Bi)ly d'Espoir, Grand Falls, Corner Brook and areas around it, more J.at:tE!rly in Stephenvi1]e, and also No . 3 4 R1801

up through the 1920s and 1930s and 1 94-0 s and 1 9 S 0 s and so on , an~ as like Glenwood and Millertown and Bishop 1 s Falls, all of which had the so-called woods lines, the access into the forests, in par·ticular, of this Island, not to for·get, Mr. Sp~~aker, of course, thanks to rny spE!ech writer, Terra Nov a , wit. h i. t s co 1'1 s i d C.:! r Cl b 1 e contrjbution to the forest industry of this Province, a district that you, Sir·, represE!nt wi. th such digni.l-:y, c:~ dtst:rict t.uhich rnay LAJell bE! able to claim thE! F:i1~s 1: p~~rrnanent Spc,~al((;!r of this hon. House, indr:H!d, in tirne to COTnE!.

SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hE!ar! MR. TULK : We may well appoint him. MR. SIMMONS: Mr. Speaker, while the involvement of this Island has been fairly pervasive in continuing, th~~ same cannot be said for Labrador to the same degree. That, in part. is the point of this particular resolut:ion. Let rnE~ say from the outset, Mr. Speaker, to the gentleman from St. John 1 s East Extern. that tAle in the ofFicial Opposition have no difficulty with the;! r·esoluU.on itSE!lf. But. having said that, f"ll". Spt::H·li<EH', t~H;! also have no difficulty with the:' concc,,pt of mot.:her·hood, nonE! lAJhdtsoever'.

I say to thE! g c,~ n t.J. n mr.:tn for· S 1: . John 1 s F. as t Extern that this resolution is almost unworthy of hirn, not to denegratE!, not to subtract from the very notable, laudable objective of the rE!Solution . To encourage the government to continue its efforts to bring a forest :indus try to Labrador, that is a J.audablc~ objectiVE!. But apart frorn that, I say to the L1802 May 11. 1988 Vol XL gentleman frorn St. John 1 s East, it ts completely unworthy of him that this is the best he could do.

Why did he;! not, in t:h(' pr·ocr~ss, put in thE! rE!SoJ.ution something that was alJ. encompossing, sorn~1t:h.inq of an umbrella nature that would address the deficiencies in the government. 1 s forest industry p o 1 i. c y ·f o 1~ the T. s 1 and , as IAJE!J.l. something that would address the sh.:unGflll. handling of UH:! for·est s p r a.y programmE! t hi s y E! cH' , LAI here the existence of great inventories becomes the overriding considE:~rat.:'i.on ins Lr::1ad of LhE:! hai"ITI that is being infi:ich1d on songbirds, instead of taking initiative which would ensure that the forest is protected?

Instead of casting aspersions about l: hE:1 effectiveness, and that notable and regrE!ttablE! phr·asE! HIE! minister used the other day, playing Russian roulE!ttl:e as soon as he figures out what he meant by that phr·ase, I am sure he wi 11 do us thE! honour of tEd.J. i ng us. Mr. Speaker. I say to the gE:~nt.l(,~ITian for' St. John 1 s East Extern. first of aJ.l. that we v..d11 hr.lv e no di ffi c IJll:.y s u ppor·t:.:i nq t: h"~ main resolution.

Now, thjs r· e so l.u t "i. on l. i. k C:! so many o thE! r· s often puts the legislator in a b:it of f.l box , L n t h a 1.: hE! o r' s h 01 IAJ a n t: s to support the resolution, as I d o , b u 1.: h a s s o rn (! d :L f f 1 c u 1 t y tAd t h the fairJ.y puffy WherE!aS 1 s -l:IAJO o F 1.: h (;! rn r:l r· e j u s t. a b s o l. l.l t. e p u f' J- . The SE!COI'Id OI1E!, WE! have no argument with. There is considerable TnE!rchantable t:.i.rnbN' in Eastern Labrador. that is a fact. A fact of truth to whtch we can subscribe. But, Mr.

Speaker, list.E!I1 to t: hi~; for· puff. · 1 The ProvincJ.aJ. govE~rnrnont has had constderable No. 34 R1802

success in sLrengtherd.ny thf~ forest industry on t:he Island of N~~wfo11ndland through rrri.ll upgrading ariC~ silvicultl.irE!. 1 Nov.J, Mr. Speaker·. dr·eam on! If it tAJas not for' t·:.hc,~ govc;!rnlnc;!nl:. in Ottawa, there would be no mill modernization programme in th'.is Pr·ovinCE!, and at a time when this administration, Mr. Speaker, was playing the kind of game it is try i n g to p 1 a y a g a -.i n n otAJ , h a v J. n g their cake and eating it too.

They want to tell the Newfoundland people insofar as the fishery is concerned, they have a bunch of kissing cousins in Ottawa, and in the same mouthful they want to call the crowd in OttatAJa a bunch of p a l: s i <::~ s , I Hd. n k IAla s Ut e Premier 1 s latest term on the subj c-?.ct. Rut. back in 198'1-, Mr. Speai<E!Y', wh :ile they were tear·ing thE! guts out of the federal liberals in one mouthful, they werE! putting out a br·ochurE:~ explaining hoiAJ succ~~ss ful they had been in getting ag rE! c-?.mc;! nt s IAli t:h tha l s amo big bc:~d government in Ottawa.

It includes an agreemE!nt on pulp and papE!r' rnoder·n:izat .::ion, :in IAJhi.ch both governments agr'E!E! to providE! a total of $41 milLion for a pulp and paper modernization agreement. Now, Mr. Speaker, so much for thE! first

whereas. The Government of Canada, the former Liberal Government of Canada, at that, can take full credit for that mill upgrading programme. That same government, Mr. Spc-?.ak<::11n, can take crE!dit fo1n the very commendable silviculturE! progrc.unrne that was ongoing in the members distr·ict of St. G<-?.or·g<;!1 S, dnd ·.i.n rny former district, down in l:he B a y d I E s p 0 ·.i. In iH' (,~ c\ • a s i. J. wU. c u J. t: u I" e pr·ojE!Ct that has corne to a hr.1J.t 1..1.B03 May 11, 19B8 V o 1.

XL notAl b<,1cause t:h.i.s goVE!rnmr:'nt has not seen fil: to continUE! it, bc,~cause t:l'l'i.s goVE!rnmc,~nt hHs ot.he1n priorities in terms of what it ought to do w:ll::h i::h~, money, because this government has not got up to Ottawa and persuaded thE!:ir kissing cousins, thEd.r political b<::~dmal:E!S of the n~~E!d r'.lnd the necessity of continuing that silviculture programme in Bay d 1 Espoir and St. GeorgE! 1 s and other parts of th:ls Province. Now, Mr. Spea I< E! r, I hopE! Utd t the gE:1ntlt:'ITian for St. John 1 s East Extern is v.dthin E!arshot . , as is my good friend For Tor·ngat Mountai.ns, I see.

Mr. Speaker, the rnE!mbE!r, soon t:o bE:1 rn:i.nist:E!r, thcc1 rrJE'!Inbc;!r for· St. John 1 s East Extern said in his spr:~ech a few rnornE!nts l:'lqo 1 Nothing tJ.dlJ. bE! g:iVE!n away in Labrador· 1 • Mr. ~)p(H~ker, t:h(,~SE! arr:1 ·fair-ly br-ave words for a mE:!InbE!r who supports an adrninlstrat:ion which just g~ve away just about the 1.1Jho 1. e shop on Spr·u ng. Wh~:! r' (;! tAla s he then? WherE! was hE! then, Mr.

Sp~~i:lb~r. whE!I1 this gover·nmE~nt \Alas ignoring the local entrepreneurs, the local pc-?.op1~:! who wan t.~;.~d to produce and haVE! bE!E:~n sucCE!SSfuJ.]y pr·oducing cucumbc,1rs ovE~r the J.as t ttAJO or three y e cl r s? W he 1n e was hE! then, Mr. Spe-?.aker, when l:hat same administraU.on thc-1t hE! assurE!S us will give nothlng away in Labrador was busy giving av.1ay E!VE!ryUdng on Sprung. L'llhr;!re tJ..Jas he, Mr .

Speaker, when that same government, in the Atlantic Accord, that much toutE!d At.Jant.J.c Accord caved into Central Canada tn terms of refi.ni.ng capact-1-:y? ~-LTULK: W I'H:1Y' E! t.~kl s h c,1 o n t h e N o r t I'll'! r· n c o d when they gave that away? MR. SIMMONS: No. 311. RlH03

Where was he on the Northern cod, Mr. Speaker? Where lAJas he on the factory freeze tralAJlE!rS, when the government gave ·.in at thE! expE!I'lSe of Newfoundland fishermen and fish plant tAJO r k E! r s? MR. TULK : Caved in . MR. SIMMONS: Gave,~ in and caVC:!d -i.n, Mr. SpHakcH', at the same milli-instant. MR. TLILI<: 1- h a 1.: J. s r i g h L . Ml~. SIMMONS: Now, Ml" . Speakel~, it is not enough for Uw mE!I·nbc;!r ·For· St.. John 1 s East: Extern, whom you know well, Sir, - MR. BARRETT : You are on dangerous ground now. MR. SIMMONS: Now, Mr. Speaker, you talk about a conflict of interest.

Just as I was going to consult the Chair on the propriety of the member for St. John 1 s East Extern doing lAJhat he did, I look up and he!re is the mc-?.mber for St. John 1 s East Extern in the ChaJr. MR. R. AYLWARD : Throw him out, Mr. Speaker. him out. Mf~. SIMMONS: Throw As they say, Mr. SpeakE!r, in other ter·ms, r. am my OIAJn gr.:-1ndpa. T l:. i.s not. C"!nough, M1~. SpE!i.'l.ker·, to say l:hcitt not:hi.ng IAd.ll be;! gi. vc~n awc:lY i.n Labrador. We cannot: take much comfort i.n that when that same mr:~mbE:H' frorn St.

John 1 s East ExtE!rn has stood by and allotAJHd thc,~rn to give atAJay millions of dollars on Spr·ung, alloJ~H;!d thE!m to gi.v~::~ t:hc,' shop at.uay in te!rrns of refining, as embodied .in l::he appropr·iate clause in his Atlantic accord. He is Ll804 May 11, 1988 Vol XL standing by these days, I submH:, though it is not public yet, and allowing the government to carne off on t.he short E!nd of a bargain that would aJ.J.ow Quebec, I say to him, to gE!t most of the industrial benefits from the offshore, and tJmr:~ tArill pr·ovc-?. us r·ight on that o n e , too . B e c au s E! i f i t u.J e r e knotAII1, Mr.

SpNilkr:~r, IAJhat. thE! fight is about, it is not whet:hE!r Mobil IAJi. J. J. 0 r IAiJ. J.J l'l 0 t d ~ :! V (?. 1 0 p t h E! offs.horE!, it is t.uhethE!r Mr. Marc~:!l Ma~~SE! 1.1Ji.ll gwl: his IAJay on t:I·H:! offshore mode:! of dE!VE!loprnli:~nt, rat:E! of d(~velopmr:!l'll.: r.~ nd pl.dCE! of industrial benefits : Now, Mr. Speaker, while we are tal.k "i.ng about t::h:i.s gentlE :! rnan f1" om St. John 1 s East Extern, lEd: us go back to something else he said when hE! informed us tAJhat rE!i:·llJ y went wrong in Stephenville. MR. K. AYLWARD: A good town. MR.

SIMMONS: He said, 1 The expensive by the in StephenvillE!. 1 MR. DINN : wood was too t :ime i.t arriVE!d The first thing t:hat was wrong was t:hc;!y gaVE! John C . Doyle $1.1'7 million (inaudible) . MR. SIMMONS: T c:~m gl..:-1d rny good FriEHld For Pleasantville (Mr. DJnn) rnc;!ntioned John C . Do y 1. e , b o c <'Ius (:• h ,,, lAid s t. o be the tE!xt oF my li.ttle SOI"monc'! ' l : t:(~ jusl ·:. now. The quotation was to come from t he Gospol. c:lccor·d.ing l::o John C. Doyl.e or, more properly, the Gospel accorcHng to John C.

Cr·osbic,~ in IAJhich he taJ.ks about, vilifiE!S -·-I suppos(:! i.n b:ibicdl t.:er·rns :it tAJould bE! John C 1 s Jetter to thE! chu1nch at Panama, in tAJh:i.ch he tab,~s back the two buildings. RE!IT\E!TnbE!r thoSE! No. 34 Rl804

two buildings? You know those t.IAJo buildings, T say to rny fr'i.ond from Stephenville - MR . K. AYLWARD: Yc,'s. MR. SIMMONS: those two dormitories in Stc,,phc,~nville, as t:hey tAJE:H'O :in those days . Mr. Crosbie kicked up a gr'E!at fuss bc-:'lcauSE! Mr. Doyle had made quitE! a bundle on them, because the government, you see, had sold them to Doyle for $450,000. Those two multimillion dollar buildings, Mr. Speaker, had been given away to this fellow Doyle for $450,000 and Crosbie, being the man he is, t.o~Jas going to have them back. So they bought thc-:)m back, Mr.

Speaker, from Doyle for· $450,000, held on to ti1E!m for a couple of years and then put them up on tE!nder. And, do you know what they got for them? They got one dollar for one and never did soll the other one. So, while you clre letJ.!d.ng al:)ot~t some of the extra expenses involved in Stephenville, do not fotnget that harebrained scheme. A n d , I~J ~d. 1 ~:! y o u a r' e cl 1:. i 1'. , M r . Speaker, and while we are still t.al.ldng about MR. TULK : What was the total cost of that one? MR. SIMMONS : lrJell, that onE; only cos-t the government, Mr. Speaker, $449,000. MR. TULK : Plus one. MR . SIMMONS : No, no!

It l.o~Jas $4-50,000, but thE!Y got one back. G:i.vE:~ thE!m cr'C.;!dit where credit it due. L..l805 May 11, 1988 Vol XL Now, Mr. Speaker, while we are s1:.'i.11 l:.alk.ing about t:hdl :. same man, John Crosbie, do not forget he did SOTriE!t.hi.ng (:~lsc~, !-:<)(), IAJhi.Ch L1.JOUJ.d have hE!lped drive lJP thE! cost of l.o~Jood corni.ng -i.nlo Sl:ephE:Hlv·i .l1E!. HE! cancelled the shipping contract, you lAd. J.l. I"~'! me~~ mb c,~ I" . Do you r·etnE!mber that? MR. TULK: Oh, yes! So he did. MR. SIMMONS: Then almost the next morning sornc-?.body els .e got l: he shtpping contracts.

Of coursE:', it was a complete coincidence that the people who got it next morning WE!Y'E:~ Crosb-:i.c-:1 :i.nb:!rc-?.sts. So, Mr. Speaker, do not talk to me - MR. TULK: Are you sure? MR. SIMMONS: I am quite sure. Do not talk to me, Mr. SpE!C1I<E!Y' I about l::he S t e ph e;rt v i 11 e , you, Sir MR. SPEAKER: Order, pJ.ease! c ()51:. 0 f IAIOOd \:0 becausc-:1 l say t.o The hon. member's tirne has elapsed . MR. SIMMONS : I say to you, Mr.

SpE~aker ·- I can take thirty seconds to cluE• up -·­ that, yes, there were costs in Stephenville thclt. should not have been, but when you are telling that story, I say to the rrHnnb~:! r for St. John's East Ext<·H'n, tEd.l the whole story and te!ll how the costs got E:~ s c a 1 at. e d IAJh J.l e you are at :i.t. Mr. Spc,~ akc~H', supporU .ng mot he,~ r· hood No. 34 IAJC,~ hr.~vc;! no this r't:'sol.ut:. i.on. d·iff:iculty cornp1E!tE!J.y WE! hatJE! R1805

some conct:!r·ns about the first. 1 WHEREAS1 and the third 1 WHEREAS1 , and we hav~1 a suggest .ion :in the twenty-ninth second to make to you, Sir, and that is that havJng heard a rnarVE!llous spE!ech from the m C::Hn b c;1 r f o r· S t . J o h n 1 s E a s t E x t.c-:a r· n , and an equally marvellous one from the official Opposition, I am sur·e you u.Jil1 agrE!e, we have heard HlE! v J (~11.JS 0 n j, t I lAl(:1 a 11 sup poInt i 1·:. I and I am prepared to call the question, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS: H l':' a r· , h e a r· ! MR. SPEAIO~R : The hon. thr:1 Minister· of Forest RE:1SOUr'c(H>. MR.

TULK: Are you going to let this pass, B o b • a n d g e t i t o v <H' 1~li t h ? MR. R. AYLWARD: The hon. members might be willing to ca11 the q1H:1stion, Mr. Spc,1akt:!r, but I find this topi·c to bE! of such importance to this Province and, in particular I am surprised that. the hon. thc,1 member for Eagle River would allow an opportunity to discuss some potential dE!VeloprnE!nts in Labrador to pass in th:is House lAd.thoui:: proper discussion . I would not say he was cons u 1 ted on this , and I arn sure thE! ITIE!mbr:1r for Naskaupi was never consulted, Mr. Speaker.

It L•.Ja s r(~d 1.1 y :1 rord c to I·H~rH' th0. hon. rrHHnbE!r for· For'l:un(:! linr·rnitagE!, IAJh(:!n he IAJdS spE!c~k-ing, compar·ing thE! g:ivc,1aiAJays :in the p a s t i n 1: hi s P r· o 1; i n c c=! l:. o c:~ 1 i. 1:. l 1 <:1 pt"OjE:H:t ltke Sprung. I mt~an, il:. i s r ~~ a l. 1. y , r ~~ a ll y i. I" o n i. c . T t i. !> har·d to stomach actuaJ.ly, Mr·. Spoa k c,'r'. The hon. rnernbor askc,,d t~Jhet"G 1.~~~~ wet"e whE!I'I the factory freezer Ll806 May .1.1, 1988 Vol. XL trawlers went into the Northern cod. Mr. SpE!aker, I will tE!11 you tA.Jhero IAH:1 IA.Jere.

We IAJer·e here trying to protect the Northern cod from being given away that the han. LeadE!r of thE! OpposiU .on IAJH n l: s to g i v c,1 a!A.Ja y to t h ('! F I" en c h . That is whE•rE• WE! [·lrE! on NolnthE!rn cod. They IAJG\nt to g:iu(~ :it away and we want to protect it, Mr. Speaker. They do not only want to a1low Canadian cornpanie~' in LhE•re, they want to give it away to fore!ign countriE!S. That is lAJhei"E! IAJI::1 IAH;! r 0 . The offshorE! b~Hwfi t s ho monltonod, Mr . Speaker. MR. fOR IN: Where was he when they tried to close down Burin? MR. R. AYLWARD : It is re!ally ironic to hE!ar tho hon.

ITIE!mbc;!r' say thcll ·.: tA.Je ar·e standing by to allow Quebec to benefit from the development of our offshore. Mr. SpE!aker, WE! fought his administration for five years to try to gE!t a dE!al lAJhei"E! NEHA.Jfoundland would benefit, and he was in Ottawa at thE! timE! supporting the people in Ottawa against NewfoundJ.and on offshore b<;!nefit.s. Mr. Spe:1aker·. I do not. know why hE! dOE!S not choke IAJhE!n hE• op<,1ns his mouth, wht"''l I'Ho! makes such foolish statements. One of the biggest giveaways ever, o b v i. o u s J. y , i. :; C h 1 1 r· c h "i. 1 J. F a 11 s . WE!

IA.JilJ. nE!VE!r liVE! that CHlE:! dotAJrl, Ml". Spoakor, until. Lhe contract elapses, I do not think. But the o ·t: hto! r b·i. g g ·i.tJ (~diAJdY, a not h C:!l" John Doyle deal, under thE! LtberaJ. Admtnoi.st:r·ation of l:his Pl"ov:ince lAJas thE! linerboard m:i.J.l. It: cost u:; a fortUI'lC:1, Mr·. SpE!di<EH'. ThE! taxpayers of this ProvinCE! had to p~y a fortune to get back the rights of U.rnber and tho bu:i.JdJng No. 34 Rl806

that was in Stephenville so that a former Progressive Conservative Administration of this Province, Mr. Spe~ker. could get a very successful pulp and paper operatton operat i ng in Stephenville today. It cost the taxpayers a fortune because former Liberal adndnistrat:ions in this Pr·ov:inCE! gave it <:\ll away, Mr. Sp~~akt~r. John DoyJ.E:~ was thE:~ only one who ~;!ver bene-?.f'i.tE!d fr·om the lirH-?.rbod.rd mill. He went away to Panarna IAdth a f o r t u n e and we tAH:~ r e s t u c k tAd t. h bills that we are still paying off. Mr.

Speaker. because administrations that he supportE!d, and s ti 11 supports. gave,~ it aiAJay on us. MR. TOBIN : John Doyle was a crook . MR. R. AYLWARD: Mr . Speaker, I do want to con g r· at u 1 a ·1-: e the h on . tn ~wt b EH' for St . John 1 s E~st Extern (Mr. Parsons) for· bri.ngi.ng 1-:h.i.s t:o t.:he,~ attention of the House and the Province. T would ltkB to go over in some briE:~f form some of the f o r e s t r· y a c t i. lJ i. t. i. 0 s t h a t p r e~ s (~ n t J. y exist in Labrador. Mr·. Speaker.

IAJE:~ have a rE!Sour·ce in Lab r· ado r , p ;:~ r t i c ul a r·J. y i. n Uw Happy Valley Goose Bay area, IA.J h i. C h IAJ(,~ iH' E! t. r• y .i. n 9 t 0 dE! V E:11 0 p now. Ther'E! is a vast resourcE! of timber supply ln that area that can be dEH)eloped, and IAli] 1 be devc-?.loped, but it tAJ:ill be developed properly. It will not be giVE:1n away. Mr . Speake-?.r. we have,, in Labrc:ldor now some thirteen permanent staff and some eighty-five t.emporary and seasonal staff throughout the year, and these people are responsible for administering our LUl07 May 1.1, l9H8 lJol XL p rag rarnrnE! s . Mr.

Speaker, IAJB haVE! SOITIC'! faci .J.il:-:i.E!S in Coosr,~ 8dy. v~('! hc.WE:1 Building 86 in GooSE! Bay for admi.n:istr't'lt-i.on; tAlA hi'IVE! sorne per·rnanE!nt staff in that clrE!i':l; tAlE' havf~ a tm-1.jor un:i.l clnd fir'c:! depot at Goose Bay and Otter Creek whJch tAJB o p ~~ r· R t ~1 R1 J. y ~~a r· ·- r· o u n d and tA.Je have a unit fores t:E!r in thr.1t b u i 1 d ·i. n g . T h (:1 f r.1 c i 1 i. t: i E! s t: h E! r· e i n c l.u d e a n off i c e • a g a rag e , a f:lr·e bank dnd a f-:i.r·e;! t~<Hl<JE!Y'S facility for the forest fire season.

In Goose Bay tAJe also operate four greenhouses to prod u c e s ~H~ d 1 i. n g s for o u r silvicuJ.ture programme and our capacii : y in those grc,H:~nhouses notA.J, the seedling production, is up t:o about 320 S(H!dl :ings a Y'"!Clr. lnJe are now r E! nov at i. n g , E! x pan d :l n g an cl r~~consl:r·uct:i.ng those'! gr·~:·E:1nhouSE!S to try to improve and increase our seedling production :in that area. Mr·. SpE:H·\kr.'!r, r·ight.: not.•J, :in Wabush, we have a fire depot tAJith one pc~r'rndnE!ni·. st:c.·\·Ff mE:1rnbE~r·.

Thr·ough thE:1 fire fighting SE:1ason, IAJe;• haVE! three more firefighters in that arE!a. We also have a firE! dE!pot: in Cart:tAJY'i.ght. in 1-.:h~;! Sout:-.h~:!t"n part of Labrador. This was not: t n .:~ n nod p E! r· rn i':l n ~:! n t·: J. y 1.1 n l: i.l. :1. 9 B 6 , b t.t t. now we haVE! a ForE!St rangE!r thet"E! and three f'i.r·e;!fi .ght.:'i.ng pos i t:.ions there through the firefighting S(~ason. L-\le could do tnuch tnor'E! work in thE! Southern par·t of Labr·ador· i3.nd th<3.t i.s tAJhat. tAJe,~ ,,_J:i.JJ. be tryJng to do in the next little while. We also have one office accE!SsibJ.e to us in t.hE!

RE!d Bcly arE:1a r·:ight. notA.J. Mr. Speakr:!r, t h o s e a r E! s orne o f t: h e a c t :i. v i t :i e s that tAle ht.-1.ve,1 :in the Labrador region of our department notAl. It is est:i .rnate!d that: tl1e L.abradot" r·~1g:ion :i.s sevc,1n and a half U .rnE!S as big as any other region that we No. 3ll· Rlll0'7

have thr·oughout the ProvinCE!, so you can ·.image t:I·H:~ probl~w1s that ar·e cr·r::~ated for our staff in trying to manage that resource. The area consists of jn excess of 290 square kilometers in that region of our department and there is an Hst:lmatc,1d 334 million cub:i.c meters, I think it is calJ.E!d, Mr. Speaker, of productive forE!St land in that Labrador region which is a considtH'able amount of for't"!St Ir:1nd whtch we need to use. We do have some need for more staff "i.n that an~a · and thr.l.i: -Ls being worked on this year and w:lll bt:~ IAJOY'i<C;!d on OlJC"!r t:hr:! next. couple of years.

We have current plans l:: h i S y e i:'l r 'i. n 0 I, I r' f' i. In e f j_ g h t J n 9 abilities or capabilities. Last y c;! <.'It" wE! h e1 d a 1~. lr:'1 1.: c:! r· b o 1r1 b c;! r' ·i. n Goose-:> Bf.tY and occasionally in Wabush. Thts ye,~ar I•.Jhal.: ,~,l':~ pian l~o do is l:o have at 1east. one in Goos~~ Br:~y at all t-Lrnes and one;! i.n Wabush all the time. We arE:~ also going to increase our helicopter activity there:~, IArhich is most effect:ive-:> :in the Labrador ar·ea, to two helicopters and two water bomber's. This, IAJe think IAd.ll. be a good start in trying to protect the forests of Labrador.

We are al.so installing an early warning lighting strike system, I be,~lievr::~ it is cal.J.ed, so thc1t 1.ue can identify thE! arE!aS IArhere the lighting storms are passing through and have our crews get thE!re ri'.:tt:hE!Y' qu "i.ckJ.y SO t:i'H~y Cdl'l check out any forest fires that m"i.ght haVE! occur-red dur·-Lng t.hc~ passing of the lightening storm. Most of HJe,~ fir·es :in Labr·ador· ar·e CF.l.U sed by l. i.g h l:c~n"i.ng, ,;(nd be Ci:'ILI s e of thP vast unpopulated cH'E!i:lS in Lc:lbrr:~dor, l:her·c~ i'1r<;! somE! 1:.-.i.rnos ~~rl·lf:!l'l a fj n~ IAJ'.ill be s tart