Manitoba Hansard — 2 December 2008 (Sitting 9, 39th Legislature, 3rd Session)

39-3-9

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session - Thirty-Ninth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. LXI No. 9 – 1:30 p.m., Tuesday, December 2, 2008 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Ninth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLAN, Nancy, Hon. St. Vital N.D.P. ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson N.D.P. BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli N.D.P. BLADY, Sharon Kirkfield Park N.D.P. BOROTSIK, Rick Brandon West P.C. BRAUN, Erna Rossmere N.D.P. BRICK, Marilyn St. Norbert N.D.P. BRIESE, Stuart Ste. Rose P.C. CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P. CULLEN, Cliff Turtle Mountain P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P. DOER, Gary, Hon. Concordia N.D.P.

DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside P.C. FAURSCHOU, David Portage la Prairie P.C. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach P.C. GRAYDON, Cliff Emerson P.C. HAWRANIK, Gerald Lac du Bonnet P.C. HICKES, George, Hon. Point Douglas N.D.P. HOWARD, Jennifer Fort Rouge N.D.P. IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri, Hon. Fort Garry N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. JHA, Bidhu Radisson N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LAMOUREUX, Kevin Inkster Lib. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns N.D.P.

MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MARCELINO, Flor Wellington N.D.P. MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McFADYEN, Hugh Fort Whyte P.C. McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon. Lord Roberts N.D.P. MELNICK, Christine, Hon. Riel N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East P.C. NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake N.D.P. OSWALD, Theresa, Hon. Seine River N.D.P. PEDERSEN, Blaine Carman P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. RONDEAU, Jim, Hon. Assiniboia N.D.P. ROWAT, Leanne Minnedosa P.C. SARAN, Mohinder The Maples N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield P.C. SELBY, Erin Southdale N.D.P. SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St. Boniface N.D.P.

STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon. Dauphin-Roblin N.D.P. SWAN, Andrew, Hon. Minto N.D.P. TAILLIEU, Mavis Morris P.C. WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. Swan River N.D.P. Vacant Elmwood Vacant The Pas

263 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Tuesday, December 2, 2008 The House met at 1:30 p.m. PRAYER ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 230–The Mental Health Bill of Rights Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the MLA for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux), that Bill 230, The Mental Health Bill of Rights; Déclaration des droits des personnes ayant une maladie mentale, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, tomorrow is the United Nations International Day of Disabled Persons.

In honour of this international day, we are introducing today a bill of rights for those with mental illnesses to provide better protection, to provide better life for them and to assure that those who are mentally ill in Manitoba will be well respected with compassion and dignity. Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] PETITIONS Long-Term Care Facility–Morden Mr. Peter Dyck (Pembina): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

The background for this petition is as follows: Tabor Home Incorporated is a time-expired personal care home in Morden with safety, environmental and space deficiencies. The seniors of Manitoba are valuable members of the community with in creasing health-care needs requiring long-term care. The community of Morden and the surrounding area are experiencing substantial population growth. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the Minister of Health (Ms.

Oswald) to strongly consider giving priority for funding to develop and staff a new 100-bed long-term care facility so that clients are not exposed to unsafe conditions and so that Boundary Trails Health Centre beds remain available for acute-care patients instead of waiting placement clients. This is signed by Ron Schwarz, Dwayne Wiebe, Dorothy Dueck and many, many others. Mr. Speaker: In accordance with our rule 132(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House. Crocus Investment Fund–Public Inquiry Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Mr.

Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background to this petition is as follows: The 2007 provincial election did not clear the NDP government of any negligence with regard to the Crocus Fund fiasco. The government needs to uncover the whole truth as to what ultimately led to over 33,000 Crocus shareholders to lose tens of millions of dollars.

The provincial auditor's report, the Manitoba Securities Commission's investigation, the RCMP investigation and the involvement of revenue Canada and our courts, collectively, will not answer the questions that must be answered in regard to the Crocus Fund fiasco. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the Premier (Mr. Doer) and his NDP government to co-operate in uncovering the truth in why the government did not act on what it knew and to consider calling a public inquiry on the Crocus Fund fiasco. Mr. Speaker, this is signed by C. Magat, M. Cansino, A.

Dela Vega and many, many other fine Manitobans. Thank you. Manitoba Liquor Control Commission– Liquor Licence Fees Mr. Cliff Graydon (Emerson): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. These are the reasons for the petition:

264 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 2, 2008 The Manitoba Liquor Control Commission has substantially raised the cost of annual liquor licences for restaurants, cocktail lounges and other Manitoba businesses. The MLCC justifies this increase by stating that the cost of an annual licence is being increased to better reflect rising administration costs. For some small-business owners, the cost of an annual liquor licence has more than doubled. These fee hikes are a significant burden for business owners.

The decision to increase the annual licence fee, while at the same time eliminating the 2 percent supplementary licence fee payable on the purchase of spirits, wines and coolers, has the effect of greatly disadvantaging small businesses. Small businesses which do not purchase liquor from the MLCC in large volumes will not receive the same benefit from the elimination of this supplementary fee. Instead, they are facing substantially increased costs simply to keep their doors open.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the Minister responsible for the administration of The Liquor Control Act to consider working with MLCC to find alternate means of addressing rising administrative costs. To request the Minister responsible for the administration of The Liquor Control Act to consider working with MLCC to revise the decision to implement a significant annual licence fee increase.

To urge the Minister responsible for the administration of The Liquor Control Act to consider ensuring that the unique challenges faced by small businesses are better taken into account in the future. This petition is signed by Margaret Bryans, Michael Hebert, Wendy Malcolm and many, many more fine Manitobans. Pregnancy and Infant Loss Awareness Day Mrs. Leanne Rowat (Minnedosa): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. These are the reasons for this petition.

Each year in Manitoba, many families experience the heartbreaking loss of an infant through miscarriage, at the time of birth, or shortly thereafter. During this time of grief, families require support, understanding, and in many cases, the financial means to assume funeral and monument costs for their child. Unfo rtunately, the cost of a funeral for an infant that has never left the hospital is usually not covered by private insurance plans. Affording these children a dignified burial can help parents and family members work through their grief.

Heaven's Little Angels, a registered charity in Winnipeg, exists to help eligible families fund funeral and monument costs for the infant they have lost. Building awareness within the greater community of the challenges faced by these families is a positive and proactive means of establishing support and understanding within the community. Each of the 50 U.S. states commemorate Infant Loss Awareness Day annually on October 15. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To encourage the Minister of Family Services and Housing (Mr.

Mackintosh) to consider establishing Pregnancy and Infant Loss Awareness Day in Manitoba in order to increase awareness, support and understanding of the difficulties faced by families who have lost an infant. This petition is signed by Valerie Paul, Trent Linnell, Al Wiebe and many, many others. * (13:40) Physician Recruitment–Southwestern Manitoba Mr. Larry Maguire (Arthur-Virden): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition. These are the reasons for this petition: The Town of Virden has the last hospital in Manitoba on the busy Trans-Canada Highway travelling west.

For the safety of recreational travellers, long-haul truck drivers, oil and agricultural industry workers and its citizens, Virden, a town of nearly 4,000, requires emergency services at its hospital. On June 30, 2008, the emergency room at the Virden Hospital was closed due to this government's failure to recruit and retain doctors for southwest Manitoba and its failure to plan for the departure of doctors whose contracts were expiring. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

December 2, 2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 265 To request the Minister of Health (Ms. Oswald) to consider creating a health-care environment in which doctors want to work and build their careers in Manitoba. To request the Minister of Health to consider making it a priority to recruit doctors to southwestern Manitoba so emergency rooms do not have to be closed when they are needed most. This petition is signed by Karel Munchinsky, Cindy Murray, Brian Johnson, Don Brown and many, many others, Mr. Speaker. Introduction of Guests Mr.

Speaker: Prior to oral questions, I'd like to draw the attention of honourable members to the public gallery where we have with us from the Event Horizons Planning Home Schooling Group 42 visitors under the direction of Michelle Chartier. This group is located in the constituency of the honourable Minister of Education (Mr. Bjornson). On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you here today. ORAL QUESTIONS Federal Coalition Government Government Response Mr. Hugh McFadyen (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr.

Speaker, on top of the worldwide economic crisis which is having an impact on Canada and on Manitobans, many of whom are worried about their jobs and their pensions, we today face in Ottawa a political crisis. Whatever the cause of that crisis, we now face the scenario of a separatist coalition led by a Liberal Prime Minister who got only 19 percent of the vote in Manitoba and who had the worst showing in his party's history since Confederation, supported by a separatist party from Québec. Mr.

Speaker, the Premier said in response to questions yesterday, and I quote: Whoever is eventually in government, however they get there, I'm going to have to work with them. The Premier said: What I feel and what I like is irrelevant. I have to work with whoever is sworn in as Prime Minister.

I want to ask the Premier: Unlike prior premiers who have represented this province, has he made Manitoba so dependent on Ottawa handouts that he now has to sell out Manitobans in order to get even more money out of the separatist coalition led by the carbon-taxing Liberal Leader that he spent the last six months attacking who wants now to be propped up by the separatist party from Québec? Hon.

Gary Doer (Premier): Well, I had the privilege, if you could call it that, of listening to the Leader of the Opposition politicize the KAP forum, and I want to thank the KAP sponsors for having the celebration of farmers in the rotunda, Mr. Speaker. I overheard a couple of them talking about how partisan and political the Leader of the Opposition was in his speech today, and, you know, that's his right. I would point out that there is no crisis in the parliamentary system in this Legislature. We will be having a motion on the floor today that requires a confidence vote for the government.

We will proceed with the motion and the vote and judge ourselves accordingly. That is based on the Speech from the Throne that we presented, that included an update on our financial situation. We are concentrating on trying to get the basics right in our own province, trying to get the future right in our own province. I would point out, Mr. Speaker, that, yes, as the member said, there's a, quote, circus in Ottawa. He used those terms again at the KAP forum. Yes, that may be true, but there isn't here in Manitoba.

I find it kind of ironic that on Saturday all three political parties will be singing holiday carols, Christmas carols, together for an open house in this Legislature. Maybe that's what they should do in Ottawa to come together for the benefit of Canadians, Mr. Speaker. Mr. McFadyen: The Premier is making the point that there has been a history of co-operation here in Manitoba. From 1988 to 1990, there was co-operation between the Progressive Conservatives and the NDP in this House in order to provide a stable government over that period of time.

What we see coming together today in Ottawa is a coalition that will exclude and will not include even one rural western Canadian member of Parliament, not one in the coalition that's coming together today in Ottawa. It's a coalition that does not serve the interests of Manitoba and fundamentally does not serve the interests of Canada.

In the past, when there have been major national issues confronting our nation, premiers like Ed Schreyer have stood up against their own party leader in order to support the then-Prime Minister of the day, Prime Minister Trudeau, against the wishes of Tommy Douglas, to speak out on issues facing the

266 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 2, 2008 country. We know that past premiers from Manitoba have spoken up strongly. Never once has a Manitoba premier characterized him or herself as irrelevant in a national debate the way our Premier did yesterday. The fact is we face the prospect of a new government in Ottawa which will have an impact on the interests of Manitobans. It will have an impact on agriculture, which will not be represented in the new government. It'll have an impact on Manitoba, which will have less representation than we have today.

It will be a government dedicated to the task of bailing out the auto industry in Ontario and taking care of the needs that are being put forward by the separatists in Québec. This, Mr. Speaker, is not a time for weakness and irrelevance. It is a time for leadership.

Will the Premier stand up–even though he's choosing to be irrelevant, we disagree–and will he speak to his national leader about th e possibility of seeking alternatives to the current coalition in order to provide a stable working government that doesn't involve the elevation of a de feated Liberal Leader to Prime Minister and the support of Québec separatists? Will he put forward alternatives and work constructively to move Canada and Manitoba forward? Mr. Doer: The member will know that the Bloc Québécois I think came from a Conservative administration, not from an NDP caucus. I would point out, Mr.

Speaker, that the member opposite is making an assumption that this is going to happen in Ottawa on a certain date and that's going to happen in Ottawa on a certain date, and then there's going to be this kind of change in government and it's going to be that kind of Cabinet. He can make those assumptions. Right now in Canada we've had a government elected in the last election campaign and sworn in by the Governor General. The Prime Minister is Prime Minister Harper. We are working with him on the First Ministers' meeting in January.

In fact, we were talking to the Minister of Agriculture yesterday on issues dealing with agriculture and country-of-origin legislation. We're working with the government on needed and accelerated infrastructure in Canada on behalf of Manitoba. We are working on the issues of completing the floodway, initiating the Canadian Museum for Human Rights. We're working on many issues of interest to Manitobans. You know, Mr. Speaker, we're not pundits. We're elected public officials that represent the interests of all the people of Manitoba. That's what we're doing.

We don't represent the interests of one segment or another. I would also point out, I did work in that minority government and I did work with former Premier Filmon. I do know that at the first stages of a minority government we were told that the government was defeated early on. The Lieutenant- Governor of the day had the choice of inviting in–at that point it was the Leader of the Opposition, Mrs. Carstairs, who's now Senator Carstairs, who was against the Senate. But I digress, Mr. Speaker, so–[interjection] You know, the cheap shots. There is an importance in Manitoba. What can we do?

We can make sure that Manitoba and all members of this Legislature–and I said it at the beginning of the Speech from the Throne. We work together as hard as possible on behalf of Manitoba businesses, on behalf of Manitoba communities, on behalf of what we can get done in this province on behalf of Manitobans. We worked together with U.S. legislators this morning on a number of different ideas and proposals across the border. Mr.

Speaker, I thought it was rather interesting that in the United States yesterday a person who has been to Manitoba, Janet Napolitano, was sworn in as Homeland Security, but the Secretary of Defence was from the former Bush administration. You had kind of a non-partisan approach to the challenges. I think that's what's needed in Ottawa. I said before, I think all four parties have got to work together for the benefit of Canada. And, Mr. Speaker, when we were dealing in this Legislature with the minority situation, it wasn't one party on their own; it was every party working together.

I would point out Meech Lake, that had the Leader of the Liberal Party, the then-Premier and myself working together on behalf of all Manitobans. That's what's got to go on in Ottawa. Obviously the situation deteriorated. I'm going to very much be concerned about our government and our Legislature being constructive on behalf of the people of Manitoba, and I'm not going to get involved in partisan politics, Mr. Speaker. * (13:50) Mr. McFadyen: All of the issues that the Premier mentioned are relevant in terms of what happens in Ottawa, the continuation of the floodway, support for

December 2, 2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 267 agriculture, the position of the Ottawa government on a range of issues that matter to Manitoba's economy and matter to Manitoba's people. For him to suggest that what happens in Ottawa doesn't matter in Manitoba is disingenuous, Mr. Speaker, and it's time for Manitoba leaders to stand up and take a position. Mr. Speaker, through our history, four different Manitoba premiers from across the political spectrum have stood up to be counted when they needed to.

Premiers Br acken, Schreyer, Lyon and Filmon all at different times spoke up on major national issues and took sides on issues to stand up for the interests of Manitobans. Today, Mr. Speaker, there are premiers across Canada who are speaking up on this issue: Premier Stelmach, Premier Campbell, Premier Danny Williams in Newfoundland, who's always had the courage to stand up for his province. Premier McGuinty, today, who we disagree with but who came out in support of the coalition, has spoken up.

We need leadership from the Province of Manitoba and its Premier along the lines as has been provided by Bracken, Schreyer, Lyon and Filmon in the past. We have a situation developing in Ottawa of somebody who wants to be Prime Minister who got only 19 percent of the vote in Manitoba. We have a Conservative government that got 49 percent of the vote and the NDP who came in second at 24 percent of the vote in Manitoba, Mr. Speaker.

Manitobans spoke loudly and clearly only 49 days ago about what they wanted and it's only their Premier who's not refl ecting what they want in terms of the kind of government we have in Ottawa. Will he stand up? Will he put forward a new option, Mr. Speaker, for Canada, a new coalition that could involve the Conservatives working with the New Democrats in Ottawa in order to get our way out of the current jam of placing the carbon-taxing Prime Minister that he's been attacking for six months together with separatists toward the ruin of Canada? Will he stand up for Manitoba? Will he stand up today for Canada? Mr.

Doer: Mr. Speaker, I remember the last time the Conservative Party of Manitoba asked me to take a position dealing with an international event. They asked me to support, and stood up and ranted and raved that I should support the U.S. invasion of Iraq. They were very, very criti cal of that. They wrote letters and they phoned in to the talk shows and condemned me in not taking a contrary position to Jean Chrétien at the time. I think history has shown that if we jumped up and down and yelled like the members opposite had suggested it may not have been very prudent for Manitoba's best interests.

We are dealing with the present Prime Minister who is sworn in. We're dealing with him on the floodway. We're dealing with him on the Canadian Museum for Human Rights. Let me make it clear. We're not dealing with what happened in Ottawa yesterday that may or may not happen tomorrow or a week from now or a month from now or two months from now, or there might be another federal election. We're dealing with the duly elected and sworn in Prime Minister of Canada. That's who we're dealing with. I would point out, Mr.

Speaker, that when the Conservatives and the New Democrats and the Bloc voted against Paul Martin, it did slow down the floodway discussions. It does slow things down. We want to get on with all the files that are important for Manitoba. We want to get on with the infrastructure agreement. We want to get on with the positive proposals that are sitting there for Manitoba and for Canada. Yes, we want to do that. But, Mr.

Speaker, it looks to me that somebody called the Governor General, eventually, if the vote goes one way, will decide one thing and decide whether we're going to have an election or have some alternative. I don't know what's going to happen. I'm not going to predict what's happening. I'm not going to be a surrogate for any poli tical party in Ottawa. I'm going to be the Premier of Manitoba and govern for all of Manitoba. Rural Health-Care Services Emergency Room Closures Mr. Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a new question. Mr. Hugh McFadyen (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr.

Speaker, I guess the caucus behind the Premier is lining up with the 19 percent of Manitobans who voted for the carbon tax, which I find very, very ironic in light of what Manitobans said 49 days ago. Seventy-three percent of Manitobans only 49 days ago cast their votes for either the Conservatives or the NDP in the federal election. We have a history of Conservatives and New Democrats working together in Manitoba. The Manitoba solution could work in Ottawa, but he

268 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 2, 2008 doesn't have the courage to pick up the phone and suggest it to Jack Layton. Instead, he's so timid and so weak and so dependent on transfer payments from Ottawa that he won't say anything about the new coalition because he doesn't want to offend the separatists and the carbon-taxing Liberals in case he needs them for some money down the road. And that is sad.

I want to ask the Premier now: If he's not prepared to lead on the issue facing our country with respect to our national government, will he show leadership for all Manitobans on the issue of fairness when it comes to the delivery of health care in our province? We have many people who have come long distances today from Virden and the surrounding area who are concerned about the fact that their emergency room has been closed now for some 155 days. We have 16 rural emergency rooms that are either fully or

part ially closed around the province of Manitoba, tens of thousands of people who don't have timely access to emergency services in our province. We have a revolving door of doctors coming and going from the province. We have a government that allows leading family physicians to be targeted because they have the nerve to come out and speak against the closure of the maternity ward of Victoria Hospital.

We have a government that has doubled the health-care budget and yet closed emergency rooms because their priority is building new headquarters for the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority instead of opening emergency rooms in rural Manitoba. Will the Premier take the opportunity today to reverse the misguided priorities that he's shown in health care, show concern for rural Manitoba and provide the necessary level of service for the people of Virden and people in communities like Virden around rural Manitoba who need and deserve better than what they're getting from his government? Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr.

Speaker, first of all, for those people that came in today, I'm sorry that it wasn't the lead question because it's certainly a very important issue. I want to thank them for coming in and raising the concerns. I do want to say– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Doer: Certainly, I agree with the people of Virden. There should be doctors in the emergency ward. There were the five positions that were fully funded and continue to be funded at the Virden Hospital. We lost two doctors, one to Erickson and one to out-of-province in that situation.

We have asked the health authority through the Minister of Health (Ms. Oswald) to place a priority on this just as we did when Brandon was down on emergency doctors. It should be filled. The economy of Virden in southwestern Manitoba continues to grow with the development of the oil on that side of the province, along with great, strong agricultural programs and other programs. There's no reason to have not enough doctors there for an emergency ward. We've asked that this be the top priority item. Just in terms of rural health care, Mr. Speaker, I want to talk generally.

We've gone from 97 to 121 doctors in Brandon. We've gone from 28 to 38 doctors in Winkler. We've gone from 10 to 15 in Morden, four to seven in Gimli. We've gone up considerably in enrolment in medical school. The largest enrolment in medical school in general terms is happening this year, but, more importantly, we know that youth from rural Manitoba, that come from rural Manitoba will have a better chance of going back to rural Manitoba. I think we have the highest enrolment of rural students at 27 this year, which I'm really pleased about, but, yes, there should be doctors in Virden.

That emergency should be open and the fact that it's not, I apologize to the people of Virden, and we're working on it. * (14:00) Mr. McFadyen: Mr. Speaker, he can quote all of the stats that he wants, but the people of Virden and the 16 other communities around Manitoba and the very many thousands of people who are served by those communities know from their own experience that they're not getting the level of care that they require today even after the Health budget has doubled under his watch.

They're just simply not seeing the level of care improved in a corresponding way when you consider all of that expenditure. I know today he is attempting to feign concern for rural health care. Unfortunately, though, Mr. Speaker, he seems to have different messages for different audiences because when he was speaking to the Northern Association of Community Councils he attacked me and our party for wanting to provide more support for communities like, and I quote, Arthur and Arthur-Virden. That was what he said to the Northern Association of Community Councils.

December 2, 2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 269 Well, he's right. We do want to provide more support to the people of Virden and in areas of Manitoba like Arthur-Virden that have been neglected by his government. Why, Mr. Speaker, is he saying one thing to northern residents and something completely different in the south when his record of delivering speaks to a complete and total lack of concern for Vi rden and other rural communities like it? Mr. Doer: Well, Mr.

Speaker, when the member was chief of staff to the former government, when we came into government, there was a report to close 16 rural health emergencies down, so, you know, concealed from the public. It was part of our briefing that this was supposed to go ahead. Now, one of them was in Virden and I want to acknowledge that. The Virden Hospital should be open with full services. We have clinical services now. It should have an emergency. It's a high priority for us. There's a new graduating class under the accreditation program that we're hopeful that we can get two more doctors to deal with that shortage.

I acknowledge that, and I do apologize to the people of Virden. They're absolutely right about their emergency ward. We don't hire and fire doctors. They're actually independent people. They can actually locate their practices where they want. We try to use as many incentives as possible. As I said, we've increased the number of doctors outside of Winnipeg and inside of Winnipeg but not in Virden, unfortunately, Mr. Speaker.

By the way, the support for internal trade will also continue to create some pressure in this regard, just so the member is not saying one thing in the morning and it's something else in the afternoon. I also, Mr. Speaker, would point out that when I made my comments about Arthur-Virden, I said that the member went to Arthur-Virden and promised to take all the money from northern highways and move it to there, but that's not the good people of Arthur-Virden saying that. That was the Leader of the Opposition. Emergency Room (Virden) Closure Mr. Larry Maguire (Arthur-Virden): Mr.

Speaker, there is a health-care crisis in rural Manitoba, and the Minister of Health is responsible for the regional health authorities and the recruitment and retention of doctors. Since June, I've repeatedly asked the minister and this House to take action to reopen Virden's closed emergency room, to find the doctors needed to reopen the emergency services and acute care which closed at 8 a.m. on June 30 and is still closed. Mr. Speaker, that's 20 hours after a fatal accident on No. 1 highway just east of the community.

Hundreds if not over 1,000 patients from Virden have had to seek care elsewhere creating additional pressure on the communities of Hamiota, Brandon, Souris and even Moosomin , Saskatchewan. Why has the minister failed to do her job as the minister and failed to provide timely emergency care for hundreds of thousands of rural Manitobans? Hon. Theresa Oswald (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, as the Premier (Mr.

Doer) just said, we agree with the people of Virden and with the member opposite that the Virden ER ought to be open, and we are working with our partners in the regional health authority to do the best that we can to do just that. We know that there are eight individuals finishing an assessment program and we've prioritized those individuals to be placed in Virden.

We know that in conversations with the doctors in Virden that we have built on incentives that they believe would help bring doctors to Virden, including bringing a nurse practitioner position to the community, bringing Telehealth to the community and helping to fund an electronic health record. We're working on the suggestion of those doctors. I'll have the privilege of talking to some of these people from Virden later today. I'll listen to their ideas, too, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Maguire: Well, Mr.

Speaker, earlier the Premier talked about a circus, and he can talk about it all he wants, but the circus in Manitoba is in health care. It's unacceptable that the Minister of Health has allowed Virden to go without emergency services and acute-care services for 155 days. If the minister had managed to retain even 10 percent of the 231 doctors that have left Manitoba to practise outside of Manitoba last year alone, she'd have more than enough doctors to keep emergency services and acute care open in Virden.

Instead, we have a Minister of Health who stands in the House and says we've never closed an emergency room in Winnipeg, while hundreds of thousands of rural Manitobans, many in my constituency, go without

270 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 2, 2008 access to emergency care. This is happening under her watch after nearly a decade of NDP rule. In Virden, she's had five months to resolve the doctor shortage. Will the minister reassure the concerned citizens of quality health care in Virden who are here in the gallery today, and particularly I want to say to– Mr. Speaker: Order. Ms. Oswald: Again, I'll say to the member and to the people in the gallery today we want that ER to open. That's why we're working with the region on short-term, medium-term and long-term goals to get that ER open.

What we need to get that ER open, very clearly, is doctors. We know that we have seen a net increase of doctors to Manitoba. We know that this has been of great benefit to many communities but not the community of Virden, and that's why we need to continue to focus. We need to continue to work with our international medical graduates through their assessment. We need to build our medical school that, regrettably, went in a different direction during a different time. W e n e e d t o w o r k t o g e t h e r t o d o t h i s i n partnership with the doctors, Mr. Speaker, with the member of the community.

We want to get the doctors there– Mr. Speaker: Order. Rural Health-Care Services Emergency Room Closures Mr. Cliff Cullen (Turtle Mountain): Well, Mr. Speaker, the fact remains that after nine years in government the situation is getting worse in health care in Manitoba. Mr. Speaker, we have a coalition representing over 50 municipalities and entities in western Manitoba. They have come together because of the deteriorating state of health care in the region. The minister has told the group the plan is not to close hospitals in rural Manitoba. However, the minister's plan is not working.

In the real world, 18 emergency rooms are closed. Hospital beds are shut down. The organization of these community leaders wants to be proactive and work with the government to seek solutions to this crisis. I ask: Is this NDP government prepared to work with this coalition to restructure health care in western Manitoba? Hon. Theresa Oswald (Minister of Health): Again, just to correct the record, we know that overall we've seen a 21 percent increase of doctors in rural Manitoba. We know that we've seen a net increase of 288 doctors in Manitoba.

I've had the privilege of meeting with the coalition group that the member cites on a number of occasions, most recently last week at the AMM convention. I think it's worthwhile to note, Mr. Speaker, that some members of that coalition advocate for the closure of 15 hospitals in the Assiniboine Regional Health Authority. That is not our plan. Mr. Cullen: Mr. Speaker, under this NDP government, 1,470 doctors have fled this province to date. Mr. Speaker, we have front-line doctors trying to get the message to this government and the latest is Dr. Decter of Brandon.

I want to quote from yesterday's Brandon Sun, and this is a quote from Dr. Decter: I think we need a total rebuild of the system out here. It's inefficient, poorly organized and very expensive. I think there's a fundamental lack of understanding of what's necessary to fix the system. We haven't really got the response out of government or the health regions that we need. So the question is: Is this minister prepared to listen to Dr. Decter and his colleagues or will they suffer the same fate as Dr. Reynolds? Ms. Oswald: Mr.

Speaker, when the member opposite cites migration of doctors, and other members opposite, they neglect to mention virtually every time the number of doctors that have come to Manitoba. We know that during the same period of time while the members opposite were in power that, in fact, 1,692 doctors left Manitoba. They never say that either. What Manitobans care about, Mr. Speaker, is the net increase of doctors, and we're at 288.

I think I would go on to say that our investments and our plan for rural Manitoba have been clear to rural Manitobans: increasing our training, rebuilding and renovating facilities, bringing diagnostics outside the city of Winnipeg– Mr. Speaker: Order. * (14:10)

December 2, 2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 271 Rural Health-Care Services Emergency Room Closures Mr. Leonard Derkach (Russell): Mr. Speaker, this government has made it a practice of misleading rural citizens of our province, making promises to them, hollow promises. Once they leave the Legislature, nothing happens. A couple of years ago, we saw a demonstration on the steps of this Legislature from the citizens of Erickson. The Premier (Mr. Doer) himself said that the emergency ward and the hospital would be reopened. Today that facility remains without an emergency service, and it is not a hospital.

Today we have the citizens of Virden here with the same plea, the same cries, and yet, as rural citizens, they will be ignored as soon as they leave the steps of this Legislature. I'm asking the Minister of Health whether she will come good on the promise that these facilities, the Erickson facility, the Virden facility, will take priority in her government to make sure that the emergency services are reop ened as they should be, Mr. Speaker. Hon.

Theresa Oswald (Minister of Health): As I said to members opposite, we are committed to work to educate and to recruit and retain doctors, to bring them to reduce those ERs in rural Manitoba that have been suspended. Indeed, the community of Virden is our priority, to have that open. I find it curious, Mr. Speaker, that in that entire speech, not one reference was made to the fact that one doctor that left Virden indeed went to Erickson. Mr. Derkach: Mr. Speaker, the reality is that Erickson still remains closed. For three Throne Speeches running, we have heard a dialysis unit was promised to Russell.

Once again in this Throne Speech, we saw a dialysis unit promised to Russell. Last year, the minister told us that, indeed, in June 2007, plans would be made for a design on the facility. Today, there is no dialysis in Russell. Once again, rural citizens are treated like second-class citizens. Indeed, they are being ignored. I want to ask this minister whether she will finally come good on the promise of a dialysis unit in the Russell hospital, or is this again going to be a promise like we've heard to people in Erickson, to people in Virden, and other rural facilities across this province. Ms. Oswald: Mr.

Speaker, the member opposite and I have spoken about the dialysis in Russell. We're committed to build that dialysis unit, and we're going to do it, in addition to having new or renovated hospitals in Brandon, Swan River, Thompson, The Pas, Beausejour, Pinawa, Gimli, Morden-Winkler, Ste. Anne, Steinbach, Shoal Lake, and one on the way in Selkirk, in addition to what we announced today in Pine Falls, a state-of-the-art traditional healing and primary care facility that the Member for Lac du Bonnet (Mr.

Hawranik) himself yesterday congratulated us for; CT scanners in Brandon, Steinbach, Thompson, The Pas, Selkirk, Morden- Winkler, Portage la Prairie; the first MRI outside of Winnipeg in Brandon and Boundary Trails; a new, mobile ultrasound unit in Ericksdale; over 160 new ambulances predominantly in rural Manitoba– Mr. Speaker: Order. Swan Valley Region Ophthalmologist Need Mrs. Leanne Rowat (Minnedosa): More rhetoric from this minister. I think what the minister forgot to mention was in 1999, they promised that they would fix health care with $15 million in six months. Mr.

Speaker, we've raised the issue of the Riverdale Health Centre raising $500,000 in community dollars to build a health clinic. Now we've got a situation in Swan River where we have a community that has been actively pursuing what they believe is an important h ealth-care need in their region. An ophthalmologist would be required in that area to provide services to that region. They fulfilled their responsibilities. The Lions Club agreed to finance the surgical equipment. Even the RHA was on board, yet this minister has refused to recognize the residents of Swan Valley region.

So I want to ask the minister: Why is this minister and this government working against the community's efforts to provide better health care closer to home? Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Well, Mr. Speaker, I know the Minister of Health (Ms. Oswald) is working with the community and is working in a very co-operative way with Rivers.

I would point out that when the member feigns indignation about health care and talks about public relations, I would point out that I do remember that they had a cardboard box with no machine in it for a CAT scan announcement in the Brandon Hospital that they promised to renovate seven times.

272 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 2, 2008 Now, we're not perfect, and Virden needs to be improved with a number of doctors even though we've had 250 more, but we won't have a cardboard box and purport it to be a CAT scan for the people of western Manitoba when it wasn't even ordered. That's the kind of disingenuous behaviour we inherited. We are not perfect, but we are making progress everywhere in rural Manitoba. There are more CAT scans outside of Winnipeg. There are more MRIs, more diagnostic equipment, more nurses, more doctors. We're making progress. Mrs.

Rowat: In Rivers when this government–when I came into this Legislature in 2003 they didn't even have a microscope to do lab work. So I take this minister's comment as a [inaudible] The bottom line is that rural and northern Manitobans, many of whom are elderly, shouldn't have to go to Saskatchewan or wait on wait lists for extended periods of time. Even the NOR-MAN region has indicated that it supports the ophthalmology program in the Swan Valley region. The community is on board. The RHA acknowledges the need and this minister has told the community leaders she has other priorities. Well, Mr.

Speaker, why is the health and well-being of rural and northern Manitobans less of a priority to this government than rhetoric, photo ops and media management? Hon. Theresa Oswald (Minister of Health): First, on the subject of the community of Rivers, we are in discussions with them. They have done an excellent job in their community of raising funds. There have been investments in rehab in Rivers that has been an excellent addition to health care in that region, and I want to salute the professionals, the doctors and the nurses that are working there. We are working with that community.

In the area of Swan River, on the subject of cataracts, we continue to have discussions with the community. It's true that every good idea that comes forward from communities cannot be put into place immediately. We know that our wait times in Manitoba for cataract surgery at present are well under the national benchmark. We want to continue to work with communities and, indeed, we do need to prioritize. That's a fact, Mr. Speaker. Health-Care Services Government Strategy Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr.

Speaker, nine years ago the government said it would fix health care in six months, but, today, nine years later, unconscionably, Virden has been without emergency services for months. Last year the government undertook a major review of RHAs, but instead of the situation getting better, it's worse. When Dr. Reynolds spoke up on behalf of family physicians in this province, to have sufficient family physicians, he was fired. Today recruitment and retention of family physicians is still a major problem.

The government doesn't listen to our suggestions, and individuals within the RHAs are afraid of speaking up for losing their jobs. Why does the Premier refuse to make the changes that are needed to our regional health authorities to make sure health care is better in Manitoba, not worse? Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): I would point out that in 1996 a post-secondary education act was passed in Manitoba protecting the independence of universities and colleges for the appointment of staff.

There's a further University of Manitoba Act that also gives the senate of the University of Manitoba all appointment promotions, salaries, tenure and dismissals. So members opposite are asking us to break these laws, interfere with hiring. I thought it was just a principle of government, but it is also a principle under shrine by legislation both passed by the Conservatives and ourselves, or actually way before ourselves in the University of Manitoba. Mr.

Speaker, you know, the member opposite when he was in Cabinet–now, I don't want to offend, what's happening today in Ottawa, but when he was in Cabinet they cut the health-care budget of Manitoba by the equivalent of closing down every hospital in rural and northern Manitoba. So, you know, standing up here with people that come in on a bus is one thing. When he was at the federal Cabinet table, he cut the equivalent of every hospital in rural and northern Manitoba, and let the record show that, Mr. Speaker. * (14:20) Mr.

Gerrard: And nine years later, there's more emergency rooms closed in Manitoba than ever before in the history of our province.

December 2, 2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 273 This government is continuing to stonewall change. The government won't support Liberal legislation to bring accountability to health care. The government won't support Liberal legislation to ensure Manitobans have quick access to the health care they need when they need it. The government hasn't indicated any support for Liberal legislation to make sure we have better prevention for FASD and diabetes.

The government won't make changes needed to the RHAs to make sure they work better, and we continue to have huge problems like the closure of the emergency room in Virden for months. When is the minister– Mr. Speaker: Order. Hon. Theresa Oswald (Minister of Health): I'll say to the member opposite that I agree that the emergency room in Virden needs to be open as soon as possible, and we need to do that by getting doctors there as quickly as we can. On the subject of the legislation that the member raised, there were a number of issues that the member raised.

He has introduced some legislation that, indeed, actually already exists in Manitoba. He makes reference to access to patients. Indeed, we're the ones that put information about wait lists and wait times in an unprecedented way in Manitoba. We're bringing more doctors to Manitoba. We're building more hospitals. We're bringing diagnostics. We're bringing more nurses. There's a lot of work to do in health care, Mr. Speaker, because it's the most important thing to our families. We're committed to do that. Gaelin Ross Death Investigation Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Mr.

Speaker, Gaelin Ross was a healthy two-year-old baby who was in Winnipeg back in October 2004. She left Winnipeg, and only a few days later she was dead. As an infant, she was fou nd to have in excess of 40 bruises all over her body. Investigation was apparently done. There are serious allegations in regard to that this individual baby was, in fact, murdered, yet no charges, from what I understand, were ever laid.

My question to the government is: Is the government content that baby Gaelin Ross was, in fact, an accidental death, or do they believe that a further investigation is indeed warranted to ensure that justice is served, Mr. Speaker? Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Mr. Speaker, one of the reasons that we have a medical examiner act is to allow for independent reviews. We also have a pediatric death committee that looks at all infant deaths in the province of Manitoba.

We also have an investigative arm in the form of the police that investigates all matters independently of government to determine whether or not further action should be necessary. That's, I think, a process that's always been in place. The member can speculate or can raise issues, Mr. Speaker, and I think that the CME and the RCMP are in a position to deal with those specific issues. I believe the

article he's referring to– Mr. Speaker: Time for oral questions has expired. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Deloraine Awards Recipients Mr. Larry Maguire (Arthur-Virden): Mr. Speaker, I'm pleased to rise today to congratulate and recognize the accomplishments of the recipients of the 2008 Deloraine Citizen of the Year Award, Business of the Year Award and the Manitoba Council of Aging Certificate of Recognition, as presented by the Deloraine Chamber of Commerce. This year, Geraldine Kr oeker presented the 2008 Citizen of the Year Award to Mr.

Ben Arde, who has touched the lives of countless people in the community since he moved there in 1962. Mr. Arde spent many years working in maintenance at the Deloraine hospital and designed and built the first nurses' emergency system there. He is well-known for doing deeds of kindness for the nurses and staff at the hospital, including bringing nurses to work by snowmobile during a blizzard. Mr. Arde is a pilot as well, and he worked hard to maintain the Deloraine airport to ensure it is both safe and esthetically pleasing.

He has spent his life using his many skills to lend others a hand whenever he can and has a reputation for never saying no to a request. Mr. Arde truly deserves this recognition for the selfless dedication he has shown to others in his community over the years. In conjunction with the Small Business Week, TD Canada Trust sponsored the Business of the Year Award. Manager Diana Wilson, on behalf of the Deloraine Legion, was presented with this award by Melissa Turetsky and Lorie Weidenhamer. The legion provides services for many people in the region, including assisting the day care and

274 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 2, 2008 fundraising. The members of the club take great pride in it. Manager Diana Wilson has gone to great lengths to ensure it is a place where everyone feels welcome. For continuing to provide these services and more to the community, the Deloraine Legion is recognized as the 2008 Business of the Year. Finally, the Deloraine and District Chamber of Commerce submitted a nomination to the Manitoba Council on Aging for a senior who has made a difference in the community.

Deb Calverly presented this well-deserved certificate of recognition to Lionel Laval for his tireless volunteer work and dedication. Mr. Laval has promoted Deloraine through travelling to other communities as well as through his own work with numerous committees and organizations. He has served on the town council, is a member of the Deloraine Chamber of Commerce and has been involved in agriculture and business sectors over the years. Mr. Laval is a role model for both young and elderly and he leads by example and encourages others to be involved and keep active. Mr.

Speaker, the recipients of these awards are all outstanding members of the community and have worked selflessly to promote the kinds of virtues that we should all admire and aspire to. I am proud to recognize the efforts of these people today and would like to extend my heartfelt congratulations to Mr. Arde, the Deloraine Legion and to Mr. Laval for their dedication and service to Deloraine and area. Thank you. Medal of Remembrance Recipients Mr. Gerard Jennissen (Flin Flon): Mr. Speaker, on November 21, the Member for St. James (Ms.

Korzeniowski) and I pa rticipated in a Medal of Remembrance service at Deer Lodge Centre. This ceremony was held to recognize Canadian World War II veterans who participated in the liberation of the Netherlands from September 1944 to April 1945. Fifteen residents and former residents of Deer Lodge were honoured. This service had particular significance to me, as I was a young boy in Holland during the Second World War.

We were very much aware of our Canadian liberators, and the people of the Netherlands realized early on the tremendous sacrifices these young men made, including those Canadian soldiers who fought against the Germans in the Battle of the Scheldt, leaving more than 6,000 dead or wounded. In 2006, I had the opport unity to return to the Netherlands and visit the graves of over 1,300 Canadian soldiers. It was a very moving moment for me to walk the long rows of silent crosses of the boys that never came home, barely even men when they sacrificed their lives for a cause larger than themselves.

I know that, to this day, Dutch people have a special place in their hearts for Canadian veterans. I would like to thank Donna George and Kevin Scott of Deer Lodge for all their hard work in organizing this event. I would also like to thank Hans Hasenack, the Honorary Consul of the Netherlands, for allowing me to share with him the pleasant task of the presentation of the medals. Mr. Speaker, we will remain forever grateful to our Canadian liberators. I don't think we'll ever have the words to truly express what they did for us.

Therefore, thank you to all of them and especially the following medal recipients at Deer Lodge hospital: Harry Bodnar, George Burton, David Dempster, Jack Dumons, Albert Drayson, Douglas Gunn, Lloyd Irwin, Alex MacKenzie, Lloyd McDougall, Harold Prior, Charles Whitehouse, Edward Petter, Florence Dauphinais on behalf of her late husband, Joseph; Mrs. Beaulieu, on behalf of her late husband, Gilbert and Brian Taylor, on behalf of his late father, Charles. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Winkler 2010 Olympic Torch Relay Mr.

Peter Dyck (Pembina): I'm proud to rise in the House today to announce a great honour for the community of Winkler. On January 7, 2010, the Olympic torch will pay a visit to Winkler for a community celebration as it traverses the country en route to Vancouver for the 2010 Winter Olympic Games. Announced last week, the path that the Olympic torch will travel is the longest domestic torch relay in Olympic history, covering over 45,000 kilometres in 106 days. Mr. Speaker, a total of 12,000 Canadians will carry the torch, a piece of tradition extending all the way back to ancient Greece.

In its course, the torch will twice visit Manitoba, beginning with its stop in Thompson November 7. From there, it will continue all the way up to Alert, Nunavut, not returning to Manitoba until January 2010. Upon its return, the torch will travel through 33 different Manitoba towns and cities, venturing away from the Trans-Canada Highway into smaller locales and touching many Manitobans with its presence. Eight Manitoba communities were selected

December 2, 2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 275 as celebration communities, where formal festivities will welcome the flame and foster the Olympic spirit across the nation. Winkler was privileged to be selected as one of the eight official stops, bringing a touch of the Olympics to the Parkland region. A former Olympian, Karen Doell, of Winkler, participated in the announcement of the flame's sojourn in the community. Doell competed with Canada's Women's Softball team in the 1996 Summer Olympics in Atlanta. Based on her experience, she knows that Winkler has truly been bestowed with a humbling honour.

The Olympics generate a fascination with humanity's quest to improve itself: to run faster, jump higher, live stronger. The world over, the same motivation drives every athlete, the same struggles present themselves to be overcome and the same jubilation is recognized on faces of every colour when hard-fought victories are won. Canadians wishing to be a part of history and carry the torch as it makes its intrepid trek from sea to shining sea can apply to be a torch bearer on-line at www.carrythetorch.com.

By pledging to create a better Canada on-line and specifying dates and locations, all Canadians have the opportunity to share a small

part in the global event celebrating sport, sportsmanship and peace. And on January 7, 2010, that celebration will ring true in Winkler, Manitoba. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. * (14:30) Southdale Community Centre Outdoor Soccer Program Ms. Erin Selby (Southdale): I rise in the House today to congratulate the Southdale Community Centre's outdoor soccer program for yet another successful year. Mr. Speaker, my community's outdoor soccer program is one of the largest in the city, with over 1,000 youth-soccer players and more than 500 mini-soccer players.

It continues to be one of Southdale Community Centre's most popular activities. The outdoor soccer program in Southdale has been successful because the coaches and the parents involved truly believe in the importance of fair play and that more than anything kids should be having fun while playing soccer. It's also an accessible and affordable sport that can be played by almost anyone almost anywhere with very little equipment.

The mini- and youth-soccer program, along with many other sports programs at the Southdale Community Centre, play an important role in encouraging an active and healthy lifestyle for kids and their families in Southdale. I also want to recognize the hard work and dedication of the mini- and youth-soccer volunteers. Without their commitment y ear after year, none of these successes would be possible.

I want to bring particular attention to Derek Ashcroft, who will be stepping aside after four years as director for Southdale Community Outdoor Soccer, as well as Diane Lehmann, Dani Thomson, Dave Wray, Kim Teffaine and Mark Lehmann. Thank you for your commitment. Trinidad & Tobago Society of Winnipeg– 25th Anniversary Mrs. Leanne Rowat (Minnedosa): Mr. Speaker, I recently had the pleasure of attending the Trinidad & Tobago Society of Winnipeg's Evening of Elegance and Excellence, to help celebrate this community's 25th anniversary in the province of Manitoba.

This momentous milestone marks a quarter of a century that this Trinidad & Tobago Society of Winnipeg has contributed to the diverse culture that makes up this province. This organization has had significant effects that reach beyond its own community. The society has worked to promote educational, cultural, social and recreational activities for its members, and by doing this it has advanced the province's di verse identity in the greater community.

The society has played a significant and profound role in the lives of Trinidad and Tobago families and individuals through a variety of programs and services, including scholarships, workshops, tournaments and celebratory events. It has also contributed to numerous worthwhile humanitarian causes. The many successes of the Trinidad & Tobago Society can be attributed to the core principles of providing guidance to the community's youth, caring for the less fortunate and working to help keep a strong cultural identity by supporting one another's activities.

Significantly, the Trinidad & Tobago Society have embraced special interest groups that have evolved within the community. They have also reached out to the wider Caribbean community and collaborated with the Ba rbados Association of Manitoba and the Chinese Academy of Performing

276 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 2, 2008 Arts. We can all learn from the society as they negotiate respectful relationships with other cultures within a greater Canadian context. I would like to congratulate this vibrant community upon their celebration of 25 years within the province. The Trinidad & Tobago Society is an inspiration to all of us, and I thank them for their rich cultural presence in Manitoba and their influence in our lives. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS THRONE SPEECH (Eighth Day of Debate) Mr.

Speaker: Resume adjourned debate on the proposed motion of the honourable Member for Southdale (Ms. Selby), THAT the following address be presented to His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor: We the members of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba thank Your Honour for the gracious speech addressed to us this Third Session of the Thirty-Ninth Legislature of Manitoba. Standing in the name of the honourable Member for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux) who has 27 minutes remaining. Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Mr. Speaker, I indicated that I would try to get to the heart of the Throne Speech in the debate today.

What I thought I would do is make it very clear to the House that I, too, will actually be voting against the Throne Speech, as I have done in every Throne Speech that has been brought forward to the Legislature, primarily because I'm a me mber of the opposition and as a member of the opposition there is a role to provide an alternative to the government of the day. I wanted to, and I went and did, a little bit of researching some of my past files.

What I pulled was what I thought was something that would be something pertinent in terms of what it is I was wanting to say today by saying that I will be voting against the Throne Speech. Quite often when someone says you're going to vote against the Throne Speech or your voting against the budget, the government of the day will quite often exploit that. We see that every day in question period. No matter what it is, the government says, well, you voted against this, you voted against this, you voted against this–all because you voted against the government. It doesn't happen just inside the Chamber.

It also happens during elections in some of those constituency ridings. I pulled an interesting piece that the NDP circulated in Inkster. This piece actually reminded me because it came out about three or four days before the election day. It stated, Mr. Speaker, that I voted against health-care investments, like the new Access Northwest health centre and improvements to the Seven Oaks emergency room. I did vote against the budget and I did vote against Throne Speeches, but for them to kind of stretch and say that I voted against this, Mr.

Speaker, I would suggest I should then be able to say that this government voted in favour of someone that died after waiting 34 hours in the Health Sciences Centre emergency ward. Ms. Bonnie Korzeniowski, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair I would be able to bring it forward, the same type of argument. In fact, if you take a look at it, this government has spent almost $2 billion more on health care since it has taken office in 1999. What could the government have done with that $2 billion of additional annual spending in health care? For the sake of argument, I'll give you a suggestion.

This brochure makes reference to the Seven Oaks Hospital. With that $2 billion of additional annual spending, they could have built a brand-new Seven Oaks Hospital, paid for all the annual operating costs, including labour, and they could have added an additional 7,600 doctors and 19,000 nurses to work at that brand-new facility, with that same $2 billion that they have increased. I would argue, Madam Deputy Speaker, that ultimately where the government has really dropped the ball is dealing with the issue of managing the needs for change in health care.

Their emphasis has been on the empire of health-care bureaucracy. If you take a look at the percentage of increases going towards health-care bureau cracy, compared to the bedside care, you will be amazed in terms of the differences in percentages. That's really where the government has dropped the ball more than any other area–in how it is spending money in health care–$2 billion of

December 2, 2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 277 additional expenditure in that one department since it has taken office. In the brochure they circulated, it said that I voted against increased immigration targets. I remember sitting in the Estimates when the NDP were in opposition and saying that the government needs to increase immigration to the province. I argued back then that we should at least set a target of 1 percent of Manitoba's population. That was back then. The NDP had no idea in terms of immigration and the benefits of increasing immigration.

The NDP were not advocating for additional immigrants coming back then, Madam Deputy Speaker. If there was a party inside this Chamber that was actually advocating for increased immigration, I would suggest to you that it was the Manitoba Liberal Party. Even in opposition, I still went and met with the federal minister of immigration. It was the Manitoba Liberal Party that first talked about the Provincial Nominee Program. We were the first political party in Manitoba to actually promote the Provincial Nominee Program.

The NDP didn't even know about it, Madam Deputy Speaker, prior to us bringing it up inside the Manitoba Legislature and that's a fact. * (14:40) Yet the NDP, during an election, will circulate material, just before election day, saying, that I voted against immigration targets. How we manage to twist reality. Mr. Speaker in the Chair The last point I want to bring up, and this one is really interesting because of one of the petitions that I'm bringing forward. It says that I voted against new community safety initiatives, Mr. Speaker, and it goes on, which includes additional police officers. Mr.

Speaker, this is a government that has stood by and done nothing as community police offices are being closed. Community police offices are being closed under this government's administration. What has this government done in regard to it? Absolutely nothing. The point is, the government is saying that I voted against community safety initiatives. In reality, I'm the one that's standing here presenting petitions asking this government to reconsider what it's doing with community police offices, and this government chooses to do nothing, and says, well, we're hiring more police officers.

Well, I'll tell you something. On behalf of the Liberal Party, I was the one that stood up and said, get the police officers out of our hospitals. We have more police officers in our hospital facilities than many of our community police offices. So, if they were doing a good job, if they were administering the health care and managing health care better, Mr. Speaker, we wouldn't have the demands that we have on our police force today, in our hospitals. Ms. Bonnie Korzeniowski, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair But I took exception to the card because it's all about spin.

That's one of the nice things about the size of our constituencies, I guess, is that there's always what I would classi fy as a counter-spin or a reality check–whatever you want to call it. I believe that this particular brochure helped. It helped me because people that I represent knew that there's no way I would vote against the best interests of the Seven Oaks Hospital. There's no way that I would vote against increasing immigration numbers to the province of Manitoba.

There's no way that I would vote against ensuring that there's better community policing in our communities, because for years prior, I was advocating for it. So it made the government look like hypocrites, and that was the counter-spin that was put on this particular brochure. I'll tell you, it worked, it worked. What it means is that Manitobans, I believe, want the truth from government. They want transparency and they want the truth. And that is why it is that I thought I would kind of start off by commenting on that particular issue. It's about basic economics.

In economic difficulties, I believe that there is a role for government to play. When the economy is doing well, the role that government needs to play is not as significant. When the economy is doing well, you're afforded the opportunity to be able to create safety nets to protect the time when the economy does go down. It provides you the opportunity to look internally and look for the types of efficiencies that might be able to be maximized so that when the economy is not doing as well, that you're able to minimize the negative impact.

The biggest concern, when I think of the basic economy that all of us need to have, is the growing dependency of Manitoba, virtually more than any other province, and when I say virtually more than any other province, I don't know for a fact if Nova Scotia, P.E.I. or New Brunswick is greater or less

278 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 2, 2008 than ours, but I do know, amongst all the other provinces, Madam Deputy Speaker, Manitoba's dependency on equalization payments and the transfer payments has grown beyond anything I would have imagined back in the '90s. We have become exceptionally dependent on Ottawa. There's one of the Throne Speeches that Jim Carr was out in the Rotunda and I believe he was actually quoted after hearing Manitoba's Throne Speech, or it could have been a budget.

He said that every Manitoban should look to the east and salute the Canadian flag because, if it wasn't for the national government, we wouldn't be able to have what it is that we have today, Madam Deputy Speaker. We need to recognize the degree in which we are becoming more and more dependent on the national government. How does that compare to other western provinces, whether it's Alberta, B.C. or Saskatchewan, Madam Deputy Speaker? I would suggest to you that those provinces, compared to Manitoba, their dependency has gone the other way. They are becoming more and more independent.

The advantages of that are during economic down times, if you're not as dependent on Ottawa, we don't have to cross our fingers, put in the prayers and do the begging, making sure that we're going to maintain that flow of money from Ottawa coming to our province. I am very grateful that we live in a wonderful country that has so much wealth compared to other countries; Manitoba has been a major benefactor of equalization payments. We can look at the province of Newfoundland and see how well Newfoundland has done over the years because of equalization payments.

Today, in fact, it's now a have province, Madam Deputy Speaker. So the system does work and it works well. I'm just raising the issue because I think we all need to be aware of the degree in which we are becoming more and more dependent on equalization payments. Madam Deputy Speaker, I think there are some bad political decisions that have indeed been made. I want to talk about the hog industry and the reason why the hog industry is–because I've had the opportunity over the last number of months to visit some hog farms first-hand and have been able to follow it right through to the slaughter at Maple Leaf.

I appreciate those, including the member from Brandon who took me, in part, on a tour of the Brandon facility of Maple Leaf. I found it exceptionally educational. One of the things I found in trying to become better acquainted with that particular industry was the whole debate on the barn moratorium, or the impact that it was having on our hog industry. It did afford me the opportunity to talk to a lot of hog farmers, and I tried to piece together in terms of what was actually taking place.

The best I could tell, if I was to summarize it, Madam Deputy Speaker, I genuinely believe the hog industry and the personalities involved in that industry do feel slighted by this government in a very significant fashion. I believe it's because the government failed to be able to show that they had any sort of scientific ev idence that supported the actions they were taking. There was a perception that I would argue possibly a majority of them had, that the government was only doing it because they wanted to appeal to the people of Winnipeg, as if they're a government that cares about Lake Winnipeg.

It seemed to me–and it was somewhat sad at times, Madam Deputy Speaker, where you saw individuals within that industry virtually begging and pleading, saying, we want to know why it is–tell us why. Show us the science. Give us an explanation as to why it is that our industry is being picked on. Madam Deputy Speaker, it brought me back to the '90s again. I remember when the Premier (Mr. Doer) was in opposition and many of you might recall telemarketing was really taking off in Winnipeg. There were a lot of telephone jobs that were being created.

The Premier then was saying that we need to have jobs, more jobs, and then-Premier Gary Filmon said, well, all jobs are important jobs. * (14:50) It seemed to me in that whole job, what's a good job, what's a bad job and all this kind of stuff, I kind of put it to the side and I acknowledge that all jobs in Manitoba are important jobs. All jobs in Manitoba are important to our economy.

All one needs to do is to look and–you know one of the things that I really appreciate when I go to the Sikh temples is that you take off your shoes and you go into the Gurdwara and you're not bowed down, but you're on your knees or you squat onto the ground and everyone is treated as equals. It doesn't matter if you're Dr. Dhalla from St. Boniface

December 2, 2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 279 Hospital or if you're driving a taxi for Duffy's, you're all equal. I think that we need to apply that same principle to every job in the province of Manitoba and we need to appreciate those individuals that are filling those jobs because they all contribute to our economy, Madam Deputy Speaker. Having said that, I believe that what the government has done in the last six, eight months is that they've taken a swipe at an industry that was unwarranted. I think that we have lost and will be losing jobs in an industry that we didn't have to.

I say that because the government of the day was not able to make the case as to how the hog industry was hurting our environment. So I do believe that we need to try to evaluate how it is that we can make the economy as a whole move forward an d not be so selective and appreciate all the economic opportunities that are there. In any government's mandate they will be able to highlight the success stories, and there have been some success stories with this administration.

They have been able to create some jobs, but when you see something like this, one has to question in terms of why it is they dropped the ball in that area, Madam Deputy Speaker. We talk about the future which would kind of bring me right into CentrePort, a bill that every party recognized and feel very positive. We passed that bill in a very quick fashion because we believe that it's in Manitoba's best interest and we're not just talking about the land right around the Winnipeg International Airport. We're also talking about the Port of Churchill and the economic opportunity that is there.

Every one of us inside this Chamber acknowledged it, but there are some of us that are in critical positions, that are in the ministry that need to take the next step. The Legislature has done its job in terms of passing the legislation and we all have a role to play in terms of promoting it, but I see that as the potential as an industry in itself, Madam Deputy Speaker, that could crea te thousands if not potentially tens of thousands of jobs well into the future if, in fact, it is managed right and that is the key.

Now that the legislation is passed that doesn't mean that we pull back and do nothing and see how it develops. No, I believe that the government needs to look and to assist in the many different industries that we have and provide that assistance where it's warranted, Madam Deputy Speaker, not necessarily to lead the way because quite frankly, and more often than not, the private sector is a better leader than the government, but in certain situations there is a need for the government to get more involved.

I look anxiously when we talk about this whole development as a province, Manitoba Hydro, and it's interesting to follow the debate, east side, west side or under the lake. What amazed me the most on the issue is how little knowledge and how little work was done with regard to what I would classify as a third option, by having that transmission line going under Lake Winnipeg, Madam Deputy Speaker. It will be interesting to see in terms of what ultimately does happen. I don't quite understand why the government has chosen the west side. I understand political spin.

I like to believe that I know, also, how to participate in political spin. I will concede that. But if I put all the spin to the side, I have a difficult time believing that the west side is in Manitoba's best interest. I believe that the government should have to clearly demonstrate that under Lake Winnipeg is not a viable option, and this is why. If they are successful in doing that, then tell me why the east side is not right.

They should be comfortable in their feelings and their facts in knowing that they should be able to present that to a group of individuals that it would be, in fact, unbiased, and be prepared to do what's right for Manitoba. But I suspect, and we'll wait–well, I guess I shouldn't suspect, and we' ll wait and see what the government ultimately decides. Madam Deputy Speaker, there are other issues that I would welcome and love the opportunity. I know that we're trying to keep our speeches to 20 minutes.

I did want to, and I made reference to the community police office, the need for comprehensive ankle bracelet policy is something which I believe is long overdue. I think that there are some ideas that we can act on that will make a positive difference. You know, the Upper Fort Garry, I think that we should be looking at that Petro-Canada gas station and doing something in regard to that. There are some big issues, but there are also some small issues, and whether it's debates inside the Chamber or outside or just talking amongst us, that there are all sorts of discussions that need to take place.

Many of them can be done in an apolitical fashion. It's all for the betterment of our province.

280 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 2, 2008 Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for being able to say these few words. Mrs. Mavis Taillieu (Morris): I'm pleased to have this opportunity to speak to this Throne Speech. First of all, I want to, of course, thank the table officers and thank the pages, the new pages that we have and hope that their stay with us in the Legislature is enlightening and rewarding as they choose their professions in the future. I also want to just say a few words about the late Oscar Lathlin, the Member for The Pas.

I know that he served in this Legislature for quite some time and made many friendships with colleagues here on both sides of the House. I'm sure that he will be terribly missed by his family and his friends and his colleagues. And I was par ticularly struck by the words of the Member for Rupertsland (Mr. Robinson) yesterday when he did say that sometimes we save our best comments for people after they're gone and we don't say them to them when they're here.

I want to also, just, first of all, thank my constituents who have always relayed their thoughts and ideas to me as their member in the Legislature, telling me things that they feel that this government has not addressed or that they have addressed, things that they feel that I need to know as a representative and professing that they support me in my role here, and I'm very happy to represent the constituents of Morris, once again, Madam Deputy Speaker. I also would like to congratulate Mr. Doug Dobrowolski, Madam Deputy Speaker, who is a constituent of mine in Domain, Manitoba in the constituency of Morris. Mr.

Dobrowolski has been recently voted as the new president of the Association of Manitoba Municipalities. So I want to congratulate him on that and wish him well in his future endeavours with the AMM. * (15:00) Madam Deputy Speaker, having just spoken a little bit about my constituency and the issues that people bring to me, these are concerns that they bring because they don't feel that they're being addressed by this government. Constantly I hear the idea that roads in the constituency of Morris have been neglected by this NDP government.

I know that, having been told by several people, more specifically by the reeves, the number of unpaved provincial roads in both the municipalities of Morris and Macdonald are more than any other municipalities in the province. They feel that they have been sorely neglected by this NDP government where there's–and I know that there are pressures for infrastructure for all around the province because the NDP has mismanaged the infrastructure file. I understand this, but, again, to target certain specific areas of the province and not put resources there is just wrong.

It reminds me, though, of what the leader said earlier today about the Premier (Mr. Doer) being in northern Manitoba and saying things about places like Arthur-Virden, specifically, why we would want to deal with places like Arthur-Virden when the north is more important. Certainly, people in Morris feel that he may be thinking the same thing about the constituency of Morris. I've had many people say: Why aren't we fixing this road, or this road?

In fact, Madam Deputy Speaker, I've had people actually write letters to me and say that they have talked to the Department of Infrastructure, and the Department of Infrastructure has said to them, we vote the wrong way in Morris and, therefore, we're never going to get any attention paid to the roads. An Honourable Member: That's not true. Mrs. Taillieu: The members opposite are saying that's not true, but I have letters from people in my constituency, vowing that there are people that they have spoken to in the De partment of Infrastructure who say they're not going to get their roads addressed in Morris.

I think that's very unfortunate, Madam Deputy Speaker, because the Premier has said he's been elected to represent all Manitobans, and he's not doing that. I'd also like to point out there is a large amount of dollars coming from the federal government, and some of this money has been specifically earmarked for Highway 75, money coming from the federal government to fix Highway 75.

Some of that has already been done, but there is this particular stretch of road inside the town of Morris, Madam Deputy Speaker, that is–and I know that anybody that's travelled down Highway 75 and gone through the great municipality of Morris and the constituency of Morris and travelled down to the United States, and all the traffic that goes down to the United States and, on the other hand, comes up from the United States to visit our wonderful province, has had to go

December 2, 2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 281 through this

section in Morris. I don't think that anybody in this Chamber who's travelled there would deny that there's a terrible, terrible infrastructure deficit along that main street. You know, it's curious. I know that the mayor of Morris has tried for approximately six months to get a meeting with the minister and finally did succeed– interesting that the mayor of Morris was able to provide a document from 1976, signed by the government of the day, agreeing that they would fund 50 percent of the infrastructure that went underneath the town, it's 1976, that went underneath the town.

The provincial government would fund 50 percent of infrastructure under the highway that runs through the town, because they recognized the fact that particular stretch of road is not just servicing the 1,800 people that live in the town of Morris, Madam Deputy Speaker, but serves the greater economy of the province of Manitoba, the trucking association, the tourism in our province and the greater traffic between our neighbours to the south and our capital city here in Winnipeg.

The infrastructure under the street has been seriously eroded, not just due to the local people that live in the town but, to a greater extent, serving the greater economic need of the province. So we're looking ahead to see whether this government will actually move ahead on agreeing with the town of Morris and getting that infrastructure repaired in a co-operative manner. There are also some of the other issues in Morris.

Certainly, there are farmers today in the Domain and the Brunkild area that, during the 1997 flood, gave up their property, gave up their topsoil and gave that to the better good of the province, to be used to build earthen dikes to fend off waters coming from the south that would have flooded the city of Winnipeg. They did this realizing it was an emergency situation. Still now, today, they believe they would be compensated, and 11 years later, this government has refused to compensate them for the top soil that's been taken from their land to save the city of Winnipeg and build that dike in the 1997 flood.

They have recorded their crops over the last 10 years and have the data to show that, certainly, their ability to raise money through their crops on that particular portion of land is decreased because of the topsoil that was taken and not compensated for by this government. Certainly, I wanted to also talk about–the Premier mentioned it today on the radio on CJOB. I didn't quite get the question because it must have been during commercial break. But I know the issue from the people that are south of the floodway gates and the idea that their land is artificially flooded when the floodway gates are operated.

I understand the reasons that are needed to operate the floodway gates. However, there's a lot of political spin around this as well. We know that the government will look and, as soon as there is a black cloud in the west, they'll say, oh, you know, it's getting near Canada Day. We need to get The Forks walkway opened up. There's a little black cloud coming up in the west, so we might have rain. If we have rain, the storm sewers will overflow, and it's going to be bad for Winnipeg. So we have to open the floodway gates. Then, of course, the walkway at The Forks appears.

I'm not disputing that, Madam Deputy Speaker, but we have to recognize that there are people south of the floodway gates who are impacted in a very negative way by the artificial flooding that goes on to this day in this province and it's becoming a more frequent occurrence. I want to talk about the Throne Speech that was put forward by this government. I have to say, Throne Speech is supposed to be about a vision for the province. However, the problem with this particular Throne Speech and every Throne Speech that the NDP has brought forward is they do not show a vision or a plan for Manitoba.

Their plan is for themselves to get re-elected. They've managed for the next headline, or the 10-second sound bite that's coming. They bring out a Throne Speech that– and this particular Throne Speech is very sparse. There are a lot of re-announ cements in it. Certainly, there are bits and pieces in the Throne Speech that we believe that we'll have a closer look at and probably are, in principle, things that we can support. But the fact is, in the broader Throne Speech, the whole document, it's not exactly what's in it, but what's not in this Throne Speech that we take exception to.

I know, as the Member for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux) pointed out, that this government likes to stand up and say that we vote against the Throne Speech. There are things in the Throne Speech that we can take a look at and we can support. But there are thin gs in the Throne Speech that we think are lacking, do not show the vision for all Manitobans. They certainly show the vision for

282 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 2, 2008 the NDP, but they don't show the vision for all Manitobans. When we vote against the Throne Speech, as the Member for Inkster has said, they tend to then go out and say, well, we voted against a whole lot of things in the Throne Speech. However, what they would like is they want us to co-operate with them. But I have to say, there are certain things that we do co-operate on, but there are many things that we cannot co-operate on. We are the official opposition. We are Her Majesty's official opposition.

As opposition, we have a job to do. * (15:10) Can you imagine what this government would get away with if it wasn't for an effective opposition in this House, Madam Deputy Speaker? Many things Manitobans don't know are the things this government would propose and would try and do if it wasn't for the opposition. They want us to be consensus builders.

Certain items, we can be, but we can't be consensus in this House because we have a role to play in opposition, and that role is to hold the government's feet to the fire and make sure they do what they said they would do, and they don't do things that Manitobans don't want them to do. Madam Deputy Speaker, the economy is in crisis right now, and this was predictable. We've had seven months of a downturn in the economy. Over a year ago, and I heard this just on the radio last night, that there were people predicting a very bad state of affairs in the economic situation in the world. That was over a year ago.

There should have been some foresight and planning when the storm clouds started to rise. There is a good saying that, you know, you fix the roof when the sun is shining, which basically means, you take care of things when you have the opportunity to do that. Over the last nine years, this government has had unprecedented amounts of federal and equalization payments from the federal government, Madam Deputy Speaker, but instead of putting that to good use fixing the roof while the sun shines, instead they mismanaged.

They spend to the end and therefore when there's economic crisis ahead, there's not enough money to weather the storm coming. We are certain that over the next year, two years, the people in Manitoba will be suffering from the lack of vision, the lack of planning, and the mismanagement of this government with unprecedented amount of money coming from Ottawa and the way they've squandered and mismanaged it. There are many missed opportunities here, many missed opportunities.

Madam Deputy Speaker, there is such a wasteful decision here to put a minimum of $640 million into building a transmission line down the west side of the province. You only have to take out a map and look at where that west line would go to see how misguided a decision that will be, lengthening the line. The cost is astronomical, and it's going to impact on every single Manitoban from this generation and the next generation and probably the next generation, all because this Premier (Mr. Doer) wants a legacy of the boreal forest and UNESCO world site.

We support a world UNESCO site, but we also know that can be done and a hydro line can still be put down the east side, so they are willing to finance and mortgage the future of their children and their grandchildren just because the Premier can put his stamp on that. That is just unbelievable, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Let's talk about the vote tax here in Manitoba, Madam Deputy Speaker, where they want to line their own political pockets with money taken, stolen, from every single Manitoban, people that don't want to vote for the NDP, but are forced to pay money so this political party can take that money and finance their next election campaign.

They are so afraid that because we raised more money than they did in the last election, they're so afraid now that they're going to legislate that all the people in Manitoba are going to pay money to them thinking–if I want to choose a charity that I can give my money to, I'll choose that charity. I don't want the government choosing what charity and collecting money from me and saying, you know what, I'll give to the charity. No, I'll say, I'll choose where I'll give my charity money to, and that's exactly what Manitobans are saying.

They're saying, I don't want to give my money to this government to line their own political pockets. I want to choose where my money will go. If I choose to give money to a political party, then I'll do so, and, if I don't, I don't want this government telling me that's what I need to do. Madam Deputy Speaker, this government, as I said, had the opportunity to take money from the federal transfer payments and equalization payments and build a strong base so that when economic storms are coming they would have money in place to weather that storm. Many economists will say that

December 2, 2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 283 because we have a broader economic base in this province, we are going to weather this storm a little differently. But they also predict we may be last into this economic depression, some say the great depression to come, but we'll also be last out of it. This debt that is accumulating, you know, the members opposite are talking about the rainy day fund, let's compare our rainy day fund to the rainy day fund in Saskatchewan. The rainy day fund in Saskatchewan is four times what their government– [interjection]–and what they did– Madam Deputy Speaker: Order.

I just remind both sides of the House it's getting rather noisy out there and if I can't hear, it's too loud. Mrs. Taillieu: Well, Madam Deputy Speaker, thank you for that because it was becoming very difficult to speak in this Chamber with the level of noise coming from the government. So I appreciate your ruling there because it's getting very difficult to speak and be heard by you, as you suggested. It's just unfortunate that this Throne Speech is full of missed opportunities. It's a lacklustre document with no vision and no plan. I think that's deplorable. There was opportunity to do better here.

There's such a dependency on the transfer payments that this government is finding itself in a position now, in light of federal politics, that they feel the leader of the NDP is stuck. He's stuck between a rock and a hard place. But we certainly know that when he does move, it'll be to protect himself and not the people of Manitoba. There are certain things, such as changes to the pension regulations. We can support some changes to pension regulations that would decrease the transparency for Manitoba ns.

But what we can't support are changes that help–but what we would support are changes that keep companies' money and protect retirees. I think it's very important to look at our growing population and our aging population. I want to conclude, although there're many more things I would like to say, but certainly there are a few things that we want to look at in this Throne Speech that we can support. But, overall, we are obliged to vote against the misguided, lacklustre, lack-of-vision-and-planning Throne Speech that this government has brought.

It's failed to address the ever-deepening economic crisis; it's failed to provide a plan for Manitobans to weather that crisis. It fails in the broadening, over-arching vision of how we can meet these challenges, the challenge of our time, I should say, the economic global crisis. This Throne Speech has failed to provide a comfort to Manitobans that Manitobans will be able to weather this storm. * (15:20) This Throne Speech has failed. It's failed to provide a stronger and brighter Manitoba. There were opportunities to do that. This Throne Speech did none of that.

In fact, this Throne Speech does nothing for the future of our province and for future generations in this province. It's all about this government trying to maintain their power in this province and nothing to do with what's good for every man, woman and child in this province of Manitoba. They failed once again, Madam Deputy Speaker. Thank you. Hon.

Ron Lemieux (Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation): Madam Deputy Speaker, just wanting, first of all, to take this opportunity to speak with regard to this Throne Speech, but, firstly, I'd like to, just as others have, thank the pages and the staff of this Chamber. We do appreciate all the work that they do every day, day in, day out, also at committee hearings. Sometimes I think it's a thankless job, trying to herd the cats that are in this place, but I thank them– [interjection]–sometimes. I really want to sincerely thank them.

I know they work very, very hard on our behalf and, again, I think this is on behalf of all MLAs in this Chamber. I really want to thank them. Secondly, a special thanks to my colleague and our colleagues, I would say, from this Legislature to Oscar Lathlin. A number of us were at his funeral, attended his funeral in The Pas and also had a chance to pay our respects to family and friends there, but I have to say there were member representatives from all political parties that were here. I believe the MLA for Charleswood was there– the MLA for Russell, the MLA for River Heights.

So I r e a l l y w a n t t o s a y t h a t i t w a s a n a l l - p a r t y participation, expressing our grief to the family. I just want to make a comment to that effect and also there was a great ceremony here, out in the outer Chamber, from this particular building. I just want to talk a little bit about the Throne Speech highlights and talk about the vision for the province, Madam Deputy Speaker. The previous speaker, the MLA for Morris, was making comments that somehow this Throne Speech lacked the vision

284 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 2, 2008 that she was looking for, but I have to tell you that some of the items that I'll touch on–certainly, I hope to put some correct facts on the record with regard to where our vision is, and where it lies with regard to this document. I just want to state that some of the things that we're looking at are: banning smoking in cars when children are present; bann ing the use of cellphones and text-messaging devices while driving. These are the kind of initiatives we're bringing forward.

Limit access to animal repellents that have been used in burglaries and assaults on people, modernize the apprenticeship training program, reduce impaired driving and street racing, institute a new police act, establish a new food safety act to help ensure the safety of the province's food chain, crack down on puppy mills. Now I know the opposition are against that, but we would hope that they would support a bill like that, but provide for the creation–[interjection] –of course, if they vote against this Throne Speech, they're voting against puppies, Madam Deputy Speaker. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr.

Lemieux: It's a real shame to hear this– [interjection]–but provide for the creation of tax increment financing zones which also tie in with our inland port, amend The Workers Compensation Act to further enhance the coverage offering the firefighters, prohibit government health-care premiums, provide legal recognition for co-operative land-use planning and land protection with the First Nations on the east side of Lake Winnipeg, ban the distribution of plastic bags that do not conform to composting or recycling standards, eliminate the new logging in provincial parks and go forward basis in co-operation with the in dustry and stakeholders, introduce a new plan to phase out existing logging that has been taking place in provincial parks for many decades.

Madam Deputy Speaker, with regard to some more specifics with regard to our Throne Speech and the highlights of a vision for this province, we don't know the full repercussions of the economic crisis which are unfolding around the world. It doesn't appear that many do. We've seen this take place on Wall Street, we've seen this take place on Bay Street. With regard to the economies around the world, we do know, however, that for the last nine years of steady gains in our economy have given us the resilient base for dealing with the challenges that are ahead.

We're one of the few provinces, Madam Deputy Speaker, that our projected growth rate in our province in '09 is 1.6 percent, ahead of the 0.7 percent rate projected for Canada as a whole. So, we're not saying this is perfect; we know the challenges are coming, but we still have moved ahead with regard to our plan and our vision for a better province. Let me just focus a little bit on infrastructure, Madam Deputy Speaker. Infrastructure has always been a priority for us.

When we first came to government in 1999, we had challenges with regard to the health-care system, the education system, as well as the highways and br idges system that we have in this province. Our government made a strategic commitment to tackle health care and tackle education. As has been repeated many, many times about the fruit flies in the operating rooms of our hospitals, also the roof was collapsing at the University of Manitoba in the engineering building– we've heard all these horror stories, which we had to tackle. We did so.

So as we're starting to get a better handle, it's not perfect yet, we still have to do a lot more, but on the other hand, when we are making some inroads in that area, now we're starting to look and ramp up the monies toward bridges and roads in our province. We believe that not only is this important but, in this time of economic stressors, we believe that infrastructure is one way to combat unemployment and combat what's happening worldwide that eventually may end up on our doorstep. Let me just talk a little bit about infrastructure and where we've gone with regard to infrastructure overall.

If you take a look at the floodway project, Madam Deputy Speaker, we're at about a one-in- 500-year protection right now. We're on target to be on budget and on time with regard to the one-in- 700 flood protection. It's a huge project. Members opposite, of course, kept saying, oh, you'll never bring it on budget and you'll never be on time with regard to that particular project. It's a great project, not only, we believe, for protecting Winnipeg, but also financially for the pr ovince.

If Winnipeg were ever to be flooded, the city as a whole, people are estimating it'd be a $12-billion to $14-billion cost for the Province of Manitoba and for taxpayers of Manitoba, no matter where you live.

December 2, 2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 285 Madam Deputy Speaker, we're also looking at the Canadian Museum for Human Rights, which is going to be coming on board, hopefully very soon. Also looking at an all-weather road on the east side of the province. I just want to make a comment with regard to that because the Member for Morris (Mrs. Taillieu) touched on it, talking about a hydro line and where that hydro line may go. You also have to take a look at the markets where we sell our hydro and the challenges around going on the east side.

But let me just say, if once you build a hydro line down the east side, the kind of jobs that are related to that are scrubbing the bush underneath the line and keeping the line free from bush and so on. Very, very little employment after the fact. As we move forward, what this government wants to do is build an all-weather road on the east side of the province to provide not only quality of life issues, but taking a look at the groceries, taking a look at foodstuffs, gas and oil that is needed on the east side and having an all-weather road on the east side is going to address a lot of this.

You're taking, also, the potential for economic development. You're looking at possible– the lumber industry will benefit. You take a look at eco-tourism, you take a look at mining possibilities. The First Nations communities will benefit directly with an all-weather road on the east side. This east-side road, Madam Deputy Speaker, will provide employment for those First Nations communities on the east side of the lake and this is a commitment that we've made and we've already started on the Rice River Ro ad portion of it.

Before we go ahead, of course, we will, as was talked about in the Speech from the Throne, we're taking a look at an agency, an all-weathe r road agency on the east side that will move this project forward. * (15:30) Also, the inland port, CentrePort Canada, just to mention another one. I know that the minister whom I work very closely with on this particular project, the Minister of Competitiveness, Training and Trade (Mr. Swan), the MLA fo r Minto, jointly with transportation, infrastructure and trade, we see this being a huge advantage, the inland port for Manitoba and Canada.

This is a case where the MLA for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux) commented about Mr. Carr being out on the front steps or outside this Chamber making comments about the Speech from the Throne. In fact, Mr. Carr and many others in the business community worked closely with this government to ensure that CentrePort Canada and the legislation would go through. They are still working hand in hand in partnership with this government to ensure that CentrePort Canada does move ahead and, indeed, we do have an inland port right in the centre of this country, and we see the economic benefits related to this.

I have to congratulate many, many individuals in the business community, also organized labour, that are very, very proactive with regard and supportive with regard to the inland port. Many of them have let their names stand to be a board of directors on this new inland port, with further announcements to be made in the next days and weeks and months ahead. With regard to highways and bridges in the capital plan, Madam Deputy Speaker, we have added $45 million to our already $4-billion, 10-year plan. This amounts to–now the budget has gone from $400 million a year to approximately $460 million a year.

This is a huge investment. If you put it into perspective, throughout the 10, almost 11 years of the 1990s, the Conservative government spent $1.4 billion in 10, almost 11 years. In the decade of the '90s, the dark days of the '90s, they spent $1.4 billion. In three years of our capital plan, by the end of next summer, we'll have spent over $1.2 billion just in three years of our 10-year capital plan just to put this into perspective. Now I have to address the comments that were made by the MLA for Morris with regard to fairness and equity around the province. There was misinformation put on the record.

Somehow our government cares just about NDP constituencies, Madam Deputy Speaker. Let me just say for the MLAs for Arthur-Virden and Portage la Prairie, the Trans-Canada Highway, by the end of 2009, $108 million will have been projected to be invested, highways running through their constituencies. Highway 75, Madam Deputy Speaker, $83 million we committed over a five-year plan for the MLAs for Emerson and Morris. The federal government has also added another $40 million to this particular project.

Now the MLA for Morris, I'm really pleased to hear that she's very supportive of a bypass going around Morris and not going through town because she's saying that all the truck traffic that's going through Morris–that she supports a bypass going around the town of Morris, Madam Deputy Speaker. Again, millions upon millions and millions–

286 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 2, 2008 Madam Deputy Speaker: Order please. Point of Order Madam Deputy Speaker: The Member for Morris, on a point of order. Mrs. Taillieu: Yes, Madam Deputy Speaker, the MLA for La Verendrye has put false information on the record. He has said something there that he cannot prove, and if he can, I demand that he put the document on the table that says that I support a bypass around Morris. Madam Deputy Speaker: This sounds to me like a debate over the facts and, therefore, is not a point of order. * * * Mr. Lemieux: Well, thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker.

It's, again, I just want to point out for the MLA for Morris and for Emerson that we've invested $83 million. Actually, by the end of next summer, it will be about $70 million spent plus the additional $80 million we're talking about from the federal government being split with the Province. It looks like another $80 million will be invested in Highway 75. It goes right through their constituencies. Highway 10, for example, by the end of 2009, over $91 million would have been invested for the MLAs for Minnedosa and Brandon West as well.

Taking a look at Highway 16, the MLAs for Russell and Minnedosa, there's another $42 million being spent on Highway 16 over the five-year plan. Highways 2 and 3, for the MLAs for Carman and Pembina and Morris. Again we're looking at about roughly $60-million investment. By the end of next summer over $54 million will have been spent. So my point here, Madam Deputy Speaker, is that we're talking about fairness and equity in the province of Manitoba. We're not talking about where the Leader of the Official Opposition (Mr.

McFadyen), during the last campaign, when asked, where's this money coming from and what money do you want to put into Infrastructure and Transportation, he said, oh well, we'll do it the same as the NDP and, by the way, we'll take all the money out of northern Manitoba and we'll put into southern Manitoba, to highways. Now that has nothing to do with fairness or equity with regard to the province of Manitoba. I've just listed hundreds of millions of dollars, indeed, close to billions of dollars will be spent all over the province but, specifically, in Conservative constituencies, Madam Deputy Speaker.

That is the point I'm trying to make, that this government looks at providing infrastructure dollars throughout the province, whether it's in the north, the west, the east or the southern part of this province. That's why Manitobans have elected this government for a third majority, and will look at us again in years to come for another mandate, but that's for another day.

Let me just say, Madam Deputy Speaker, that with regard to the Speech from the Throne, the vision that has been shown, through this Speech from the Throne, members opposite make a lot about, oh, if we don't vote for this, then we're not voting against the Speech from the Throne, or if we don't vote for that, that doesn't mean we're voting against your $4-billion, 10-year plan. Absolutely, it does. They cannot cherry-pick, and say, you know, we don't like this, we don't like that–oh, sorry, maybe they can, they're in the opposition, they can have it both ways.

On one day they want more money, the next day they want cuts. I forgot. The opposition tends to have it and want it both ways. But, Madam Deputy Speaker, the people in the coffee shops in my constituency and around the province, and the R.M.s around the province, and towns and villages and cities, know that, yes, this government is not perfect, but we've made great inroads and great stri des from the previous Conservative government, and we'll continue moving forward. This Speech from the Throne shows the vision that we have trying to tackle a lot of difficult issues.

We do appreciate when the members opposite and the opposition supported the legislation on CentrePort Canada, to be fair. The members opposite, the Liberal members opposite and the Conservative members opposite, did support that legislation. I really want to repeat thanking them for that because it was an important piece of legislation to put in place, to get the new board of directors, private sector board of directors, put in place so they were able to move CentrePo rt forward. I really do sincerely thank them for that because it was very, very important that that move ahead fairly quickly.

But there are a lot of things that have been put on the record, Madam Deputy Speaker, that are not accurate and correct. I'm trying to attempt, in a small way, to put what is factual with regard to the hundreds of millions of dollars that are being spent in their constituencies, in their backyard, on

December 2, 2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 287 infrastructure. Now, we know the challenges are great. The infrastructure deficit is great. We are working with the federal government to try to address that. We're also looking forward to advancing the projects and, also, advancing the monies quicker. This is an expectation on our government from a lot of municipalities. We're certainly working towards that. We work with the government in Ottawa, and whichever government that is, we're pleased to work with that government. We did with the Liberal government.

We've working with the current Harper government, and we work on many, many projects jointly, as a province, wanting to work on behalf of our citizens to make sure that we address the infrastructure deficit that we have. I just want to say that, with regard to many other initiatives, I know my colleague, the minister responsible for Competitiveness, Training and Trade, as a former educator, one thing that we haven't talked much about, or I haven't talked much about, and I haven't heard much about, is the 4,000 new spaces over the next four years for training apprenticeship, and aiming for these particular spots.

I have to say that I really want to congratulate the MLA for Minto because this is a huge initiative. We are putting forward all kinds of new capital projects, infrastructure projects in this province. We need trained people to be able to work for the companies that are going to be doing this work. The role that is played by my colleague, the MLA for Minto, Minister for Competitiveness, Training and Trade (Mr. Swan), is extremely important, as well as the Minister for Advanced Education (Ms. McGifford). * (15:40) These jobs are going to be huge, going into the future.

The 4,000 new spaces are going to make a big difference for us. I know when our government came in with its Northern Development Strategy, and now the challenge is to fill all the job openings. I also want to applaud the announcement that the strategy will now be making training the centre of attention. We talked about advancing our infrastructure, advancing it.

By that we mean the announcement of a $4.7-billion plan for capital projects over the next four years is really most welcome, because we're talking about new medical facilities, upgrades to public housing, better highways and, of course, modern sewage facilities. The challenge for us all, of course, is that there's a great deal of money going to be going into infrastructure. Our money is on the table. I know we await our friends and colleagues from Ottawa, to ensure that the federal dollars come forth.

We certainly look forward to that, because we understand and the rural municipalities understand that the doubling of infrastructure dollars, or at least partnering on many of the projects, will be extremely helpful. We'll be able to proceed and move a lot faster with regard to these projects.

I note also with regard to the Speech from the Throne, Madam Deputy Speaker, that when we take a look at the kind of investments we're talking about, it's truly important not because–not just the all-weather road on the eas t side, or the mention in our Speech from the Throne of an all-weather road, east-side-road authority–not only by itself is it going to be important, but it's the jobs that are going to be created and a boost to the economy at a crucial time.

I think when people look back upon this time, they'll see the kind of infrastructure dollars that are being put forward by this government and the vision that we have to create employment and put all those extra dollars within the economy. People will look back and say that this was a very, very, strategic and important move made by this government and, indeed, the Government of Canada, the federal government as well. There is no better time to putting extra dollars and advancing those dollars into the economy and moving those projects forward at a time when we're going to be stressed economically.

As the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation, I would implore and certainly want to add my words to asking the Government of Canada to move forward on a stimulus package and an economic package. Now, having said that, Minister Cannon–it had been a long time since there was a vision, a transportation vision in this country. I have to say Minister Cannon now has a new portfolio in the federal government. He's Minister of Foreign Affairs, I think it's called.

So Minister Lawrence Cannon was instrumental in pushing his colleagues as well as Minister Toews in Manitoba to ensure more dollars came forward with regard to infrastructure. Yes, the dollars haven't arrived yet, but we certainly look forward to that because we want to move ahead and advance a lot of projects a lot sooner than what they were scheduled for. I have to state that also with regard to our Speech from the Throne–talking about poverty. It's something–with all the dollars going forward with

288 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 2, 2008 regard to infrastructure, I believe there's not a large enough discussion or big enough discussion in this Chamber with regard to the kind of poverty. Even though we talk about the economic growth next year, where Manitoba is looking like we're going to be okay, it's still not what we would like, but it looks like we'll be okay, comparatively speaking– 0.07 percent growth across the country. Poverty is still a huge problem for us all. When I say for us all, I truly mean that, because Manitoba has been making headway in poverty reduction.

We've reduced the child-poverty rate by over one third. One factor behind this success has been the provision of more training and education opportunities, enabling parents to participate fully in the work force. People do not want social assistance; people do not want welfare. People take great pride in receiving a paycheque for a job well done, and that's part of a philosophy of what this government is all about, providing employment for people and providing homes and shelters for people, that people can have a confidence about the province they live in.

Also, I find it really encouraging that even more opportunity is going to be provided under our Rewarding Work program, which the Minister of Family Services and Housing (Mr. Mackintosh) has really made a concerted effort to move ahead and push forward. This was talked about in the Speech from the Throne. You cannot fight poverty without dealing with the housing issues, as I pointed out before, so I certainly laud the Throne Speech's undertaking to upgrade existing public housing units, and older homes are going to be made more affordable by energy and water efficiency retrofits.

This will go a long way into addressing some of the poverty issues that are being faced by a portion of our population. Once again, we're not perfect, but we certainly have made great strides forward also with regard to the children of this province and wanting to make sure we have the best child-care systems in the country. Madam Deputy Speaker, I just want to conclude by saying that we do appreciate listening to the many comments that have been put on the record by all the members of this Chamber. We work diligently and very, very hard every day, waking up ev

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	39-3-9
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	39th 3rd hansardpdf 9.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	4798bfbb12d2a8add4eedf89215278bd97a44e91

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