April

27, 2010 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS

Vol. XLVI No. 11

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Fitzgerald): Order, please!

Admit strangers.

Today the Chair would like to extend a special welcome to the Barachois

fifty-plus group of Come by Chance from the District of Bellevue. They are

accompanied today by their president, Thelma Pevie; Recreation Director of the

Town of Come by Chance, Mr. Roger Goobie; as well as their bus driver, Amy Vardy.

Welcome to the House of Assembly.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: Today the Chair would also welcome the following members'

statements: the hon. the Member for the District of The Straits & White Bay

North; the hon. the Member for the District of Bellevue; the hon. the Member for

the District of Ferryland; and the hon. the Member for the District of

Lewisporte.

The hon. the Member for the District of The Straits & White Bay North.

MR. DEAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise in this House today to congratulate the members of the

St. Anthony Polars Midget Hockey Team, who, with the help of three members of

the Twin Town Icebreakers, won the provincial Midget C hockey championship at a

recent tournament in Whitbourne.

In particular, I would like to congratulate the athletes: Alexander Campbell,

Matt Bartlett, Riley Ricks, Stevon Fowler, DJ Elliott, Rikkie Burden, Joanne

Payne, Ian Warren, Sarah Blake, Marc Green, Randy Pittman, Alexander Powell,

Jonathan Young, Joshua Penney, Blair Whiteway, Brady Francis, and Joey Cornick.

I would also like to recognize the coaches: Todd Blake, Brandon Genge and Andrew

Roberts for dedicating their time and effort to the youth and to the game of

hockey.

I would ask all members of this House today to join with me in congratulating

this team and wish them well in the future competitions.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Bellevue.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. PEACH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise in this hon. House to recognize the Barachois fifty-plus club from the

Town of Come by Chance.

This club was formed three years ago and is currently very active in their

town. This group took on the role of the Tidy Towns committee and they have

developed a beautification program for their town. Each year, Mr. Speaker, this

group of fine people plant flowers on council properties and organize a cleanup

throughout the Town of Come by Chance. With the assistance of the Town of Come

by Chance recreation director, the Barachois fifty-plus club, partnering with

their youth recreation group, has developed a healthy and active living program.

I would ask all hon. members to join me in congratulating the Barachois

fifty-plus club from the Town of Come by Chance for their achievement and

development in beautification and active, healthy living of the Town of Come by

Chance.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Ferryland.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HUTCHINGS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to congratulate the Southern Shore Folk Arts Council in

Ferryland on its St. Patrick's Day celebrations held on Saturday, March 13.

Irish roots in Ferryland date back to Lord Baltimore's original settlement in

1621, when he first came to the New World with a group of Irish Catholics. The

early part of the eighteenth century saw a major influx of Irish fishermen and,

certainly, women to the settlement as well. It was these Irish settlers who

built homes and started families along the Southern Shore. For generations we

celebrated the customs and traditions of the beloved native Ireland through

humour, music and song and no better day to celebrate these customs and

traditions than on St. Patrick's Day.

I had the pleasure of attending the afternoon events which included a youth

session for talented young performers from the area to showcase their talent.

Those young performers put on an incredible display of talent, and I would to

like to recognize them. The performers included: Kelsey Arsenault, Sarah

O'Brien, Faith Hamilton, Maria Fitzpatrick, Jane Hutchings, Amber Hynes, Kyle

Dalton, and Raylene Mackey.

Also, in the afternoon there was a poem recital by eighty-four-year-old Mrs.

Lizzie Croft of Aquaforte that was written by her and reflected the history of

Lord Baltimore's settlement and how he may perceive the town today in the

twenty-first century. The afternoon events were followed by an Irish stew supper

and an evening session with performances by local entertainers which included:

Bobby Walsh, Adrian Kavanagh, Maxine Dunne, Sheila Kavanagh, the Reddy family,

Melanie O'Neill, Judy Brazil, Jimmy Ryan, and a dance to end off the

festivities.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all hon. members to join me in recognizing the Southern

Shore Folk Arts Council and the many volunteers for the tremendous job they did

in organizing this event.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Lewisporte.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. VERGE: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to recognize a very talented young

man from my district, Mr. Chris Kirby, son of Sheldon and Maureen Kirby, of

Norris Arm.

Chris graduated from Lewisporte Collegiate in the year 2000. He then began a

career in music performance while also studying electrical engineering at

Memorial University. In 2006, Chris earned his degree and he also released his

first solo recording entitled: Chris Kirby on Rum & Religion .

Rum & Religion earned MusicNL and ECMA nominations in the blues categories

and created opportunities for Chris to perform on prestigious international

stages including Fredericton's Harvest Jazz & Blues Festival, the Toronto Blues

Summit, and the Folk Alliance conference in Memphis, Tennessee. It also

attracted the attention of Gordie Johnson who produced Chris's sophomore album,

Vampire Hotel . This record has earned the artist significant success

including the 2009 MusicNL Jazz/Blues Artist of the Year award and also four

nominations at the 2010 East Coast Music Awards.

Chris has completed multiple tours of Atlantic and Central Canada, and in

February of this year he performed at the Olympics in Vancouver; 2010 is shaping

up to be a very busy year for Chris and his backing band, the Marquee. In May,

Chris Kirby and the Marquee will embark on a tour of Southern Ontario and

upstate New York.

Chris likes to keep very busy. In addition to carving a career on the

Canadian music scene, he also works full-time as a software engineer with Rutter

Technologies in St. John's and produces recordings for local music artists.

Members of the House of Assembly please join with me in recognizing yet

another spirited, talented and passionate young man from our Province, Mr. Chris

Kirby.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Statements by Ministers.

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Child, Youth and Family Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to recognize the significant

contributions of early childhood educators across Newfoundland and Labrador

during Early Childhood Educators Week which runs from April 25 to May 1.

Research shows that children's experiences in the first five years of life

have a lifelong effect on well-being and overall success. It is in the earliest

years that children gain the fundamentals of learning.

Currently, there are over 1,500 certified early childhood educators across

our Province. These dedicated individuals work with families and children in a

variety of settings including child care centres, family child care homes and

family resource centres. Many other ECE professionals act as instructors and

consultants in a variety of sectors.

The provincial government recognizes the importance of this work and is

committed to attracting and retaining ECE professionals in this Province through

educational supplements of up to $6,600 annually; loan forgiveness or bursaries

of $5,000; and by facilitating professional development opportunities.

We also partnered with the College of the North Atlantic to introduce the ECE

program on-line last year. This makes early childhood education as a career

choice more accessible to a wider range of people, especially those in rural

communities. It also makes it easier for those already working in child care to

upgrade their qualifications. I am pleased to be able to say that this

investment has led to an increase in enrolment.

In addition, we have also worked to make child care more affordable and

accessible for families in Newfoundland and Labrador. The eligibility threshold

for the child care subsidies is one of the highest rates in the country.

Currently, over 1,900 children in Newfoundland and Labrador are able to attend a

child care centre as a direct result of the subsidy program.

We also have a capacity initiative in place that assists community groups in

rural areas to start child care services. Through this initiative, we have

created over 160 spaces since the fall of 2006, and there are nineteen projects

currently in development with the potential of creating over 300 more spaces in

places such as Bay Bulls, Bonavista, Twillingate, Port aux Basques, Postville,

and Sheshatshiu.

As Minister of the newly formed Department of Child, Youth and Family

Services, I thank the Association of Early Childhood Educators in Newfoundland

and Labrador and all the ECE professionals across the Province for the passion

they have for their work and for their commitment to fostering the healthy

development of children and families throughout the Province.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the minister for an advance copy of her statement. I am certainly

pleased to acknowledge Early Childhood Educators' Week. Actually, that

proclamation took place in 2002, and I remember my colleagues at the time

introducing it in the Legislature and proclaiming it.

Mr. Speaker, it is an important group of people in this Province. They play a

tremendous role as early childhood educators in the development of our youngest

students and our youngest minds. I think it is important to recognize that

education does not always begin with a child's introduction to kindergarten, but

rather, Mr. Speaker, it begins much earlier. We, as a government, and as a

society, have a role to play in ensuring that there is an availability of child

care spaces in this Province but also an affordability to these families who

need it.

Mr. Speaker, I know that there are a number of people in this Province today

who would open more daycare centres. In fact, one particular daycare owner said

that they could open essentially up to five other centres across the Province if

they could get the trained staff. This is one of the problems that we see

existing, because although there is a demand for the service, we do not always

have the early childhood educators to be able to work in many of these centres.

While government is recognizing this is a problem and putting some incentives in

place, it is obviously not enough, and it is obviously not meeting the demand

that is out there. So I want to encourage them to do more of that.

The other thing I want to do, Mr. Speaker, is for them to be cognizant of the

affordability of child care services in this Province, because it has been

recognized nationally that 77 per cent of Canadians of all age groups and 86 per

cent of Atlantic Canadians believe that a lack of affordable child care is one

of the most serious problems that they face. We have seen the same in this

Province, where we have many women who work, Mr. Speaker, for minimum wage jobs

and pay out a lot of their income for child care services; many of them who

cannot participate in the workforce because they cannot afford those child care

services, even if they are available in certain areas. We do know that there is

a demand for more spaces. We know in the St. John's area that this is

specifically a major problem. That was confirmed by the President of the

Association of Daycare Administrators just recently.

So I ask government, that while they recognize the role of early childhood

educators, the role they play in shaping the minds of our youngest children in

this Province, that they should also be cognizant of where the gaps are, the

need for more spaces, the need for affordable child care services and the need

to have more trained early childhood educators.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I too thank the minister for an advance copy of her statement. I am quite

pleased to stand with the minister and the Leader of the Official Opposition in

honouring early childhood educators. The work that they do, as we all

acknowledge, is extremely important and it is work that needs to be supported

and increased for the good of the children in our Province. We recognize that

when we talk about early childhood learning, we also need to talk about not what

happens once children go into institutions but what happens long before that. So

we should always make sure that we are talking about early childhood learning

and child care, because these two things go together.

I note that we have come to the end of the Early Learning and Child Care plan

that was based almost solely on federal funds. So it is time for the Province to

invest substantially more in both areas of the children's development, and

especially in child care. I would hope that the government will look seriously

at maintaining the capacity grants that go to community groups to get child care

services going, but not just maintain what is there, to increase those grants so

that people will be encouraged to set up more centres throughout the Province.

We also need better wages for the early childhood educators and we need an

increased capacity in the urban centres as well. The needs are all over, Mr.

Speaker.

As the next step, Mr. Speaker, I would like to see the government establish,

as soon as possible, an early childhood, child learning

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MS MICHAEL: Mr. Speaker, I thought members' statements were statements

that were non-controversial and a person could make a statement -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair is having difficulty hearing the hon. Member for the District of

Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

I ask the hon. member to conclude her remarks.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I know the Budget announced that there will be work going towards an early

childhood plan, a framework for an early childhood plan. I would encourage the

minister to make sure that we are looking not just at early childhood but also

at child care as well, and I will look forward to receiving that plan.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?

The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: Mr. Speaker, I rise today in this hon. House to announce

the delivery of the Province's first new Bombardier 415 water bomber. The

first

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: The first, I say, Mr. Speaker, of four new water bombers

that the provincial government has purchased -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: - has purchased from Bombardier Aerospace in an agreement

worth approximately $120 million.

The delivery of this new Bombardier 415 signals the beginning of a

renewal process that will see the modernization and upgrading of Newfoundland

and Labrador's vital emergency fire suppression capabilities. With this purchase

the overall firefighting responsibility, shared between the Departments of

Transportation and Works and Natural Resources' forest fire management services,

will be enhanced. This is another significant piece of infrastructure that will

be added to this government's growing list of strategic investments and

infrastructure improvements that benefit all residents of this Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: Mr. Speaker, the Bombardier 415 is a

state-of-the-art aircraft that has proven its capabilities throughout the globe.

This aircraft has now arrived in Gander and our crews will begin training over

the next several weeks. Once our flight crews have completed this training, Mr

Speaker, this new aircraft will be put into service.

Our current fleet of six CL-215 water bombers has been in operation

now for several decades and has served us admirably. Although these planes are

still fully operational and capable, four have reached a point in their lifespan

where they are due for replacement or expensive overhauls. While we feel that we

have maintained an effective firefighting capacity, it is in the best interests

of all residents of Newfoundland and Labrador that we invest today to ensure we

have the necessary, most modern and reliable tools available to us tomorrow and

for many years to come.

This government has a long-term vision for an overall improved and upgraded

provincial infrastructure. Reflected in the theme of Budget 2010: The Right

Investments - For Our Children and Our Future is our continued commitment as

a government to improve this Province and to leave it in a better state for the

many generations that will come after us.

Mr. Speaker, as announced in Budget 2010, the overall provincial

infrastructure investment is valued at an unprecedented $5 billion over the next

several years.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: In this year, 2010-2011, $50.3 million of this investment

will go towards the purchase of these four new water bombers, another fine

example of our commitment to see our strategy and commitment through.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the minister for an advance copy of his statement. With so much money

being thrown around today I hope the minister can sit down with some of his

colleagues and probably straighten out the air ambulance issues that we have in

this Province. If we can protect the forest, and we have to do that, and the

lands, surely we can protect the lives of some of our people.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. BUTLER: I just want to go back, Mr. Speaker, to April 7 of last year,

when the then Minister of Transportation had to give up negotiations with

Bombardier on the four water bombers, but it is good to see that we do have one

on stream and hopefully we will see the other three fairly soon. We know, Mr.

Speaker, that here in the Province this year we have already received warnings

that possibly there could be a very serious year when it comes to fires. It is

good to have the good firefighting equipment.

The other thing I want to say to the minister, this is a good news story,

minister. Even though I made my comments in the front - and hopefully before

this week is out we can hear more good news from your department so that the

people on Fogo Island and Bell Island can have their ferry services straightened

out as well this week.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the minister for the advance copy of his statement. I am happy to

hear the news that finally the first of the four needed water bombers is

arriving. We started to see the money for the water bombers back in 2007, in the

Budget then when $20 million was set aside. I am hoping now - though the

minister did not say exactly when we are going to have the four water bombers in

place. I am hoping that it is going to be before this year is out. I do not know

how quickly Bombardier can spit these out from their manufacturing, but I hope

the people in the Province will know that they will be safe in the summer. In

particular, when we do have our forest fires because this is a health and safety

issue for the people of this Province. It is something that the government has

serious responsibility to take care of, and I am glad to see that they are

seeing their responsibility and making sure that this is being put in place.

The minister refers to this as an investment in the infrastructure. Well, it

is putting into our infrastructure something that is essential for the lives of

the people. I am sure that the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, especially

those who live in areas that are most affected by forest fires, will be happy to

know that their safety is now in better hands with these new water bombers.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?

The hon. the Minister of Justice and the Attorney General.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. F. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, from January 18 to January 20, I had the honour, at the

invitation of the hon. Minister of Aboriginal Affairs, to visit each of the six

communities on the North Coast of Labrador. We were also accompanied on this

visit, Mr. Speaker, by my colleagues the hon. Minister of Labrador Affairs and

the hon. Minister of Transportation and Works.

Mr. Speaker, it was my first trip ever to this most beautiful part of the

Province. It was in the dead of winter, beautiful sunny skies, no wind, bone

crushing temperatures; absolutely a delightful trip. In the words of that famous

general, Mr. Speaker, I shall certainly return.

While in the community of Postville, Mr. Speaker, we had a meeting with the

AngajukKak and the community government. During this meeting the community

government members expressed concern that their community was the only one on

the North Coast without a Royal Canadian Mounted Police detachment. Later that

evening all ministers held a public forum in the community where various issues

were discussed, but it was clear during the course of the meeting that the topic

of most interest for the residents of Postville was the desire for an increased

RCMP presence. While they believed that the officers who police the community

from Makkovik are dedicated and professional officers, they felt an increased

presence was warranted.

Mr. Speaker, the RCMP district commander for Labrador was present that

evening and in response to the concerns raised, the RCMP have provided a

short-term strategy for Postville. Patrols from detachments in Makkovik,

Hopedale and Happy Valley-Goose Bay, including weekend patrols, have been

increased. I believe the RCMP should be commended for this quick action.

Furthermore, Mr. Speaker, the passionate case for an increased police

presence in Postville was deeply moving and compelling to all ministers present

at that community meeting and our government was quick to take action. In Budget

2010, we funded two new RCMP members for Labrador at a cost of approximately

$273,000 annually. These officers will serve as part of the current Labrador

Relief Team in Happy Valley-Goose Bay and will increase the complement of

officers on the relief team to six. Two new officers will now be present in

Postville, Mr. Speaker, for patrol twenty days each month.

Our commitment to policing in this Province, Mr. Speaker, is unquestionable.

In Budget 2010 we have also provided the RCMP Major Crime Unit in Gander with a

second Child Exploitation officer at a cost of $100,000, which will serve the

entire Province. Since 2004, we have put fifty-seven new RCMP officers on the

street, including funding the Labrador Relief Team in 2007, and increased the

force's budget, Mr. Speaker, by $19 million.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague, the hon. Minister of

Aboriginal Affairs, for the invitation to visit the beautiful North Coast of

Labrador and for her representation on behalf of the residents of Postville. The

opportunity to visit these communities, meet with residents and discuss their

issues first hand, Mr. Speaker, is worth a hundred briefings. I look forward to

continuing to work with the minister, with the Postville community government,

and its residence to ensure a safe community for everyone.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I appreciate the minister providing me with an advance copy of his statement.

I guess I will respond to it with mixed feelings, actually. It is great to

see that the people of Postville will have an enhanced RCMP presence. They have

been lobbying for years for such an improved presence for the RCMP and it is

good to see that the Province is in the position that in fact we can provide

extra policing. Postville is not known, of course, for an extensive or an

unusual crime rate or statistics or anything, but of course any time you have a

police presence in your community, and particularly if it is improved, it gives

that community a safer feeling. So it is great to see, and that is the positive

piece of the announcement.

Unfortunately, I would be remiss after doing Estimates this morning, if I

also did not comment - particularly after hearing the Minister of Transportation

raving about the infrastructure improvements. I found out this morning from the

Minister of Justice that they have scrapped the women's and youth detention

centre in Labrador. Now, you cannot get up and blow your horn on one thing we

did not see any announcements on that, we did not see any press releases out

there. This government spent $500,000 after the Citizens' Rep. said we had

deplorable circumstances in Labrador for Aboriginal women and youth, came out

and committed to do it, and we find out this morning through an Estimates

process that this minister and his department, this government has scrapped it.

Tell that to the Aboriginal women of Postville and the rest of Labrador, and to

the youth.

I say to the minister that is why I say this with mixed feelings. It is good

to applaud what you do, but you should also be equally important and open with

the people of this Province, and when you do not do something, you should have

the courage to stand up and tell them why you are not prepared to do it. I say

shame, Minister.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I, too, thank the minister for the advance copy of his statement. Obviously,

I am pleased to see this announcement for the North Coast of Labrador. It is

very good to hear that government is consulting with the community to come to

this arrangement. They did it in other places, for example with Rigolet earlier

on, and the more that we can meet the needs of the people on the North Coast of

Labrador when it comes to policing, the better it is for the people in Labrador.

I have to say, too, Mr. Speaker, that as a person who also was at the

Estimates Committee meeting this morning, I was very concerned that this

government, who here is saying they see policing as so important, does not see

it is as important to make sure that Aboriginal women and youth who may become

incarcerated do not have a place to be in Labrador where they can be treated

with dignity and respect.

While I know the minister said this morning in the Estimates meeting that

this is now going to be part of a bigger plan, my message to the minister is: We

have the proof that the facility is needed in Happy Valley-Goose Bay; it stands

alone. The Citizens' Representative said clearly in his report in 2007: This

should not be considered as a prison. So, it is not part of the whole system of

the correctional facilities themselves. It is a stand-alone project that needs

to happen and it is an insult to the Aboriginal people of Labrador, the women

and youth in particular, that this project has been shelved while they are doing

ongoing study.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?

Oral Questions.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions today are for the Minister of Natural Resources. Mr. Speaker,

last week we learned the true nature of government's bungling of the Abitibi

file when they admitted that they accidentally expropriated the mill and other

assets and liabilities in Grand Falls-Windsor.

I ask the Premier today: Can you confirm that this mistake was realized in

the summer of 2009? I ask you: Who confirmed that this was the case, and why did

you not release that information to the public at that time?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Deputy Premier and Minister of Natural

Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: A couple of things, Mr. Speaker. She has asked a question

both of the Minister of Natural Resources and the Premier. I can only speak for

myself.

The second piece is it was not just revealed last week due to her questioning

in the House of Assembly. We pay attention to the news releases they put out; I

suggest they do the same with ours.

I announced this on February 5, and as a matter of fact, there was quite a

bit of news coverage right across the Province on the fact that I announced that

we had inadvertently expropriated the mill in Grand Falls-Windsor. This came to

our attention at the end of May in 2009. It came as a result of work that was

being done by a company called Enda Searching. Part of the $8 million you have

been asking about was paid to this firm for the land registry consolidation.

They found the error, Mr. Speaker, and reported it to us.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, the government knew about this, as the minister

says, since May of 2009, and yet they did not release any information until

February and no details until the last few days.

Mr. Speaker, this is a mistake that could cost the people of this Province

hundreds of millions of dollars. The time for this government's cavalier

attitude has passed, I say to the Premier, and for the rhetoric to be put aside.

We have not seen the potential for such a costly mistake in this Province since

the Upper Churchill deal forty years ago.

I ask the Premier today: Where was the ministerial oversight, the legal due

diligence from what he said when he said he had the best minds in the world on

this particular file? I ask: How was such a huge mistake made when all this

money was being paid out for lawyers and legal advice?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we have heard the Leader of the Opposition, over the last week,

make a number of wild claims about the costs of this to the people of

Newfoundland and Labrador. I would like to know where she is getting her figures

and what is it that she talking about, because we certainly do not understand it

on this side of the House.

Mr. Speaker, it is a principle in all of our environmental legislation, as

well as in the expropriation legislation with regard to the mill in Grand

Falls-Windsor and all the properties that we expropriated from Abitibi that the

polluter pays. So, we have not taken on any responsibility for remediation by

this action.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is obvious that the government knew about this for well into ten months

before releasing it to the public. It is obvious that they are not even reading

the information that they are filing in their own court documents, I say to you,

Minister, because that is where I am getting my information.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the Premier today, because he clearly stated in the

briefings and the media interviews at the time that the mill and the associated

liabilities would not be expropriated. I ask him today: How could his government

make such a blunder and absolutely a wrong decision in expropriating these

liabilities?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Deputy Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This government clearly takes responsibility for an error that was made. Now,

Mr. Speaker, we do not make mistakes on purpose.

MS JONES: Expensive error.

MS DUNDERDALE: She says an expensive error. Please tell us how it is an

expensive error. Mr. Speaker, the polluter pays and under no circumstance will

we be responsible for remediation that Abitibi is responsible for. That is the

bottom line.

Mr. Speaker, we made a mistake. We expropriated 1.6 million hectares of land.

We expropriated a generating facility that was attached to the mill in Grand

Falls, in fact, you had to go through the mill to get into the generating plant.

Mr. Speaker, on the side of caution we erred and we ended up expropriating

parts of the property that we did not intend to. Our original intention was to

return that to Abitibi via legislation in this House. We are prevented from

doing so by the CCAA process.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The minister knows that it remains to be seen if the polluter pays or the

people pay as a result of this mistake.

Mr. Speaker, is it true that the government accidentally expropriated half of

the Town of Grand Falls; and, if this is the case, I ask the minister, or the

Premier as well, if they can tell us what other assets and liabilities they have

accidentally expropriated in this mistake.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Deputy Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Mr. Speaker, inadvertently we expropriated the mill, the

manager's house and Grand Falls house. These were the properties - it was not

our original intention to expropriate, but that is what happened in terms of the

legislation.

As I said, Mr. Speaker, in my last answer, originally we were working towards

returning that property to Abitibi through legislation here in the House of

Assembly.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS DUNDERDALE: The CCAA process, Mr. Speaker, does not allow us to do

that. So, right now we have secured the property, we are looking after the

property, and we do not have any intention of disposing of the property in any

way at this time.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, the Quebec courts have already ruled that this

government's attempt to be reimbursed for Abitibi's environmental liabilities is

disingenuous. The comparison is that if you take somebody's land and assets then

send them the bill to clean up the property that you took. At least that is what

the courts are saying and seem to think in the documents that I have looked at.

Now we know the Province is appealing, but I ask the Premier today: Can you

explain why you are expecting AbitibiBowater to submit an environmental

remediation plan for properties that they no longer own?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Deputy Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Mr. Speaker, I would have thought that a thoughtful

Opposition might have posed that question when we were briefing them back in

December.

Mr. Speaker, our legislation tells us that the polluter pays. Now, Mr.

Speaker, we know that Abitibi is not interested in remediating the mess that it

left behind in Newfoundland and Labrador. In fact, Mr. Speaker, we are seeing a

move in the CCAA process where Abitibi is trying to take its properties from

Botwood and Stephenville, put them in a subsidiary and bankrupt that subsidiary

in a hope that it might relieve them of their remediation responsibilities. They

are properties we had nothing to do with.

Mr. Speaker, at the end of the day, through all of the ins and outs of that,

we might end up with remediation that really is the responsibility of Abitibi

that we may end up having to do, but it will not be as a result of this

legislation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

How soon the government forgets, but those questions were asked, I say to the

minister. Mr. Speaker, so were a lot of other questions, including this one. The

potential $500 million NAFA bill and the cost of the environmental liabilities

have yet to be tallied but the people of the Province could have a significant

bill on their hands.

I ask the Premier today: What happened to your commitment that this

expropriation deal would be a net zero cost to the people of the Province?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Deputy Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we are not finished the process yet. As I stated earlier, Mr.

Speaker, we have 1.6 million hectares of land, formerly belonged to Abitibi. We

have generating facilities on the Exploits River that we have. We have assets.

The Leader of the Opposition is flinging numbers around left and right. She is

not being held accountable on where she is coming from on any of them. She was

here in the House last week talking about $500 million that we owe Abitibi. Mr.

Patterson himself publicly stated that his high number was $300 million. She

does not know what she is talking about, Mr. Speaker, but that is no surprise to

anybody over here.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The minister knows the information that I put out there in the public has

come from the documents that have been filed in the courts on both sides. I say

to the minister today, Mr. Speaker, she knows that the bill to the people of

this Province is going to continue to grow on this file, and I ask her to come

clean today, tell the people of the Province how much this is going to cost

them.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS JONES: Tell them! Come on, tell them now

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask members for their co-operation. Members cannot ask questions and sit in

their seats and shout while the answers are being given. I ask members to the

back of the hon. minister to listen to the answers.

The hon. the Deputy Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition shouted across this House

yesterday: Abitibi lies on your shoulders, Premier, the full responsibility of

it lies with you. Mr. Speaker, that is a responsibility that we embrace. At the

end of the day our position will prove itself out, in terms of value that we

have and what we have to expend. That is not talking about the intrinsic value,

the importance of having those assets remain in Newfoundland and Labrador for

the use of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. We are not second guessing

ourselves on this side of the House, Mr. Speaker, we did the right thing.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: I guess we are going to embrace the bill too, Mr. Speaker, at

the end of the day, probably for thirty or forty years on the backs of the

people of this Province.

Mr. Speaker, yesterday we learned that this government made another

significant mistake, as they like to call it, that will cost the people of this

Province $5 million for errors related to salaries at the College of the North

Atlantic in Qatar. Within days of each other, Mr. Speaker, government admitted

that they accidentally expropriated the Abitibi mill in Grand Falls-Windsor, and

now we find that they have overpaid some employees and they owe the State of

Qatar millions of dollars.

I ask the minister today: How can such careless mistakes happen and why is

this becoming a trend of the Williams government? Where is the due diligence on

behalf of the people of this Province?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I remind hon. members that Question Period lasts for a half an hour. There

are important questions to be asked and important answers to be given. Members

should not be shouting or interrupting while either one of those processes are

taking place.

The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KING: Mr. Speaker, first of all, let me start by saying the member

opposite obviously has not done the research on this and has no idea or

comprehension of the issue we are dealing with.

I made a release yesterday that fully disclosed to the Province an error that

has been made to the tune of approximately $5 million. I also made it fully

clear that this is not a decision of government that made this error; it was a

decision made by the College of the North Atlantic which is an arm's-length

corporation of government, Mr. Speaker.

I also say to the member opposite, Mr. Speaker, that if she were to read the

legislation she would understand very clearly that I am taking my role as

minister very seriously and government is taking this issue very seriously. We

are reacting as we ought to do. Perhaps, Mr. Speaker, the hon. Leader of the

Opposition would like me to react as the Leader of the NDP suggested yesterday,

to abdicate my responsibility and to forget the fact that there is a $5 million

price tag on this. Well, I say to you, we are not prepared to do that. We are

prepared to work with the college to solve this problem and we are prepared to

find the answers to it. We are not prepared to do as the Leader of the NDP

suggested yesterday, to wash our hands of the solution and back off and leave

the taxpayers in limbo.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, the minister wants to talk about research but who

is the one who had to go back to the mikes three times yesterday to try and

clarify the information on this issue? Minister, maybe it is you who should be

doing your research.

Mr. Speaker, the minister is saying that this is an arm's-length from the

government; that it is not our mistake, but, Mr. Speaker, this government is

accountable for the operations of those institutions in our Province. Mr.

Speaker, in contrast to government's response to the Abitibi blunder in which

there was no scapegoat, they absolutely found a scapegoat yesterday.

I ask the minister: Why was Ms Madill so quickly departing from her job?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KING: Again, Mr. Speaker, I will try and take us back and talk about

the facts and move away from the rhetoric that comes across from the other side

of the House.

The fact of the matter is, Mr. Speaker, what we announced yesterday is that

we would do an external review for the purpose of trying to determine exactly

where the College of the North Atlantic made mistakes that led to the error that

has been identified. We work collaboratively with them, Mr. Speaker, to try and

find the solution to the problem, and I say, Mr. Speaker, not unlike we have

done many times in the past. For example, it is only about a month and a half

ago, Mr. Speaker, when the former president of the college decided, without the

proper authority and authorization, to sign a one year extension to the current

contract in Qatar, that we work with them to find out why that decision was

made independent of the process that was expected and we opt to solve the

problem.

I also say, Mr. Speaker, that the series of events that have occurred in the

last five days, some have been in my control and some have not been in my

control. I can only say to the member opposite that I received, at 4:00 o'clock

on Friday, a letter of resignation from the former President of the College of

the North Atlantic. Any details that surround why that person chose to submit

their resignation, that question, Mr. Speaker, ought to be put to that

individual.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, according to a memo that was circulated by Ms

Madill herself, it basically said that she was instructed to be out of the

college and off the campus by 4:00 o'clock yesterday afternoon by the Department

of Education.

I ask the minister: Were those orders issued through his office?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KING: Mr. Speaker, at 4:00 o'clock on Sunday I received a letter of

resignation from the President of the College of the North Atlantic. The

President of the College of the North Atlantic said to me, as the Minister of

Education for this Province: I no longer have an interest in working for this

government and in working to provide leadership to the College of the North

Atlantic.

Mr. Speaker, upon receipt of that, I acknowledged that the intent of the

former president was made to me and I gladly accepted her resignation. Mr.

Speaker, absolutely yesterday, as any position of that nature would be

addressed, when the intent was made aware to us, the person ended their

employment with us yesterday and we will proceed. Currently, the deputy minister

will act for a few days, Mr. Speaker, but we will proceed and we will fill that

position, Mr. Speaker, but we will fill the position with somebody who has the

interests of this Province and the interests of the College of the North

Atlantic and more importantly, Mr. Speaker, somebody who wants to do the job.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Will the minister admit that it was this issue around Qatar and also the

actions of the government that prompted Ms Madill's resignation?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. KING: Mr. Speaker, as I have said on a number of occasions, I can

only repeat myself and say to the member opposite that the whole purpose of the

actions of this government over the last twenty-four hours was to make the

public fully aware, first of all, to fully disclose that an error has been made

by the College of the North Atlantic. We have done that, Mr. Speaker, and we

recognize that it is a huge responsibility for us to uphold the accountability

of the College of the North Atlantic and make sure that we make the public aware

of what is happening. We have done that, Mr. Speaker, and we made those

intentions known to the senior executive and the President of the College of the

North Atlantic.

Now, why the College of the North Atlantic former president decided to resign

is a question that she can answer. It is not one that I am going to even

speculate on. I can only say to the member opposite, if she is interested in

listening to my answer, is that those are the series of events and this

government is going to move forward. We will put somebody in there who is

interested in providing the leadership that we need for that college, Mr.

Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of The Straits & White

Bay North.

MR. DEAN: Mr. Speaker, I rose in the House yesterday to highlight the

issue of government's poorly made decision to relocate the air ambulance from

St. Anthony, and it is an issue that continues to be less than acceptable and

tolerable to the people of my district.

I rise today to highlight another failure by this government, and that is to

provide financial support to kick-start the crab fishery. Mr. Speaker, there are

13,000 people approximately that live north of River of Ponds to the end of my

district; 2,300 of those have a direct connection to this fishery getting

underway.

I ask the minister: If he would explain why government is not willing to

provide immediate and short-term help to these 23,000 people, or have you and

the Premier

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask members for their co-operation.

The hon. the Member for The Straits & White Bay North, if he would like to

pose his question.

MR. DEAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Would the minister explain why government is not willing to provide immediate

and short-term help to these 23,000 people or have we again been forgotten by

this government?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN: Mr. Speaker, what I see more and more in this fishery is

frustration, total frustration that on an annual basis they find themselves in

this situation.

Mr. Speaker, a short-term solution is not the answer. Mr. Speaker, some

short-term solutions have been the Vardy report, the Cashin report, the Dunne

report, the Jones report and, Mr. Speaker, what do we find? We find ourselves

back in the same situation.

Mr. Speaker, I have come up with a word that I think would truly reflect what

needs to come out of this fishery, total exposure, Mr. Speaker. In order to make

changes within this industry, the total fishing industry needs to be exposed and

see what needs to change. We are not dealing with the root cause of the problem

in this fishery, Mr. Speaker, and that is what my intention is and that is what

the intention of this government is.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of The Straits & White

Bay North.

MR. DEAN: Mr. Speaker, there is a very significant and important

short-term issue, and that is the fact that it is now three weeks since some of

those people have had an income. A long-term solution will not provide

short-term help to these people.

Mr. Speaker, the urban-rural divide is alive and well in this Province.

Provincially, there are 20,000 incomes that depend on the fishery and yet this

government refuses to invest in the industry in the short-term to get the season

underway.

I ask the minister: If there were 20,000 jobs that were at risk in St. John's

today would this government be willing to invest to ensure that those jobs would

be protected?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN: Mr. Speaker, I have to say to the member opposite, before he

got in government I was on an EPC trip to his district where one of the

businesses that we invested in was his, Mr. Speaker. That is the investment to

rural Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN: Mr. Speaker, yesterday we announced a $1.4 million

commitment to the removal, or the balancing of processing fees to processors.

Not a lot of those, Mr. Speaker, are located on Water Street. They are all

located in rural Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, take a look at what we offered. We have offered - in the fishing

industry renewal we offered to buy the marketing arm. The Minister of

Transportation and Works offered last year to establish a marketing council,

and, Mr. Speaker, we put $800,000 into the working of the MOU. Mr. Speaker, we

are doing everything we can to see that this industry changes, and, Mr. Speaker,

in the long-term we will make that change.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of The Straits & White

Bay North.

MR. DEAN: Mr. Speaker, I would like to say, as an entrepreneur, that I

have been trying to create jobs in this Province and I would suggest that other

people might want to do similar, might want to consider dealing -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

If members are going to continue to interrupt while questions are being asked

and while answers are being given, the Chair will have no other choice but

identify the members that are causing the disruption and disorder in the House,

and the Chair will certainly do that if it continues.

The hon. the Member for the District of The Straits & White Bay North.

MR. DEAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Yesterday in the House we asked the minister to table the external legal

opinion he uses as a reason not to assist the industry. He failed to do so, and

today we are giving him the opportunity to make this document public.

Minister, will you table this report and indicate whether it was an opinion

that was solicited by government, and if so, when was it requested and received?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN: Mr. Speaker, I do not think it would be due diligence if we

did not check into the possibilities of what could and could not happen.

Mr. Speaker, the important thing here right now is that we have to get the

two sides, that being the FFAW and the processors, together and arrive at the

price.

More importantly, I put out an invitation yesterday to the leader of the FFAW

and the Leader of the Opposition to come in and review these documents. I am

pleased to report that Mr. McCurdy, at 9:00 o'clock this morning, came and

reviewed those documents. The Leader of the Opposition and no one across the way

has even countered my offer.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, my questions have to do with the situation at the College of the

North Atlantic with regard

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the Leader of the Opposition, the Member for Gander, and the Minister

of Labrador Affairs for their co-operation.

The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions are related to the issue that we have at the College of the

North Atlantic with regard to the mistake that was made. Mr. Speaker, one result

of this situation so far, besides the fact the Province now owes $5 million, has

been the resignation of the president. Very little detail has been released on

what has actually happened. Mr. Speaker, the former president has said that she

cannot be supportive of the manner in which the Government of Newfoundland and

Labrador handles issues related to the college.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the Premier, how exactly has his government been dealing

with the College of the North Atlantic.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

First of all, let me correct an error in the member's

preamble. The Province

does not owe $5 million. First of all, the $5 million is an approximation; and

secondly, it is an error on behalf of the College of the North Atlantic, not the

Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. I think the member needs to understand

that very clearly.

Secondly, the member is asking what exactly this government has done. Mr.

Speaker, I say to you, what this government has done is within a matter of four

days we have acted to call for an independent review to try to determine all of

the details that people want to know about why this happened, and to make

changes so that it does not happen in the future.

I say to the Leader of the NDP: Would she rather that we did as the

Opposition Leader would want us to do and hide the $5 million, and walk away

from it and not let the public know that there was an error made? We are not

prepared to do that, Mr. Speaker. We are prepared to take real leadership and to

act on the issue.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I am really glad to know that the minister understands the difference between

the government and the college because, obviously, a big mistake was made at the

college. It is also the responsibility of the president and the CEO to deal with

mistakes, whether they are big or small.

Mr. Speaker, the implication of the letter distributed by the former

president is that she was not enabled by government to deal with the error that

happened. She says she has all of the responsibility and none of the authority.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the Premier why his government did not let the president

of the College of the North Atlantic manage her own institution.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

For the second question in a row, let me correct the member opposite. The

former president does not own the College of the North Atlantic; it belongs to

the people of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, for people who are in the gallery or watching this at home, I

think that we need to remind people this is a very serious issue, and let me

just remind the member opposite what has transpired here.

An issue was brought before me as the minister and before us as government

that indicated that the College of the North Atlantic and employees therein made

an error to the tune of approximately $5 million, a number of which will be

confirmed. The reasons upon which that error was made will be confirmed through

an external audit that this government has called, Mr. Speaker.

Let me remind the member opposite when she asked the question about what we

are doing, we have called the review because we want to find out what has

happened here, why the decisions were made and why we arrived at this error.

The second thing, Mr. Speaker, that we are committed to doing is we are

committed to putting mechanisms in place in collaboration with the college so

that on a go-forward basis we do not get put in this situation. I say to the

member opposite, we take the responsibility very seriously and that is why we

are where we are today.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The time allotted for questions and answers has expired.

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition on a point of order.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I have had an opportunity to check Hansard and yes, the minister did invite

me to come to his office to look at those documents. I guess I inadvertently did

not hear him when he made the invitation because I had to go back to Hansard and

look it up. It would be obvious to understand why I would not have heard him

because you see the kind of noise that goes on in Question Period in the House

of Assembly and oftentimes it is difficult to hear the responses, but I will be

down, Minister, to look at those documents -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is no point of order.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Tabling of Documents.

Tabling of Documents

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Deputy Premier.

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, in accordance with the Transparency and Accountability Act it is

my pleasure to table the 2009 Annual Report for the Chicken Farmers of

Newfoundland and Labrador.

MR. SPEAKER: Further tabling of documents?

Notices of Motion.

Answers to Questions for which Notice has Been Given.

Petitions.

Orders of the Day.

Orders of the Day

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MS BURKE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We will call from the Order Paper, Motion 1.

MR. SPEAKER: Motion 1 is the Budget Speech and we are presently debating

the sub-amendment.

Are there any speakers on the sub-amendment? Is the House ready for the vote?

The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I do not mean to rush here, but I think there is some confusion as to who

spoke last. We have been following a process here and I think the last person to

speak was the Leader of the NDP.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay, there has been some confusion. In that case,

Mr. Speaker, I will be the next speaker on the sub-amendment.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I have had the opportunity in the past couple of weeks to speak.

We are here, of course, talking on Motion 1, which is dealing with the Budget. I

have had the occasion to speak I think it was for three hours the first day, at

length, about the Budget, what is in it and what is not in it, what is good

about it, and some of the concerns that we have about the future direction of

the Province as to where we are going.

Of course, I also spoke for an hour after that on the non-confidence motion.

Some members on the government side voiced some concerns, wondering why somebody

might show non-confidence in this government; but, of course, there are a lot of

reasons for that. Question Period today was probably a very good of example of

why one might question the confidence that they might have in this government,

based on the questions, or more properly based upon the answers that we saw

today, or lack of answers.

Now we have an opportunity, or I do, Mr. Speaker, and this is the last time I

will be speaking on the Budget, and it is to the non-confidence motion. When you

talk about the Budget, of course, there are so many facets to it. It governs all

of government's activities. There may be different policies or there may be

different programs but, of course, virtually everything that a government sets

out to do is impacted by what is or is not in a Budget.

I would like to go back and review. For example, this government stands up -

and the Minister of Finance was on his feet for quite some time on Budget day

and he talked about: this is what we have done, and this is what we are going to

do, and keeping commitments. We just had the Minister of Natural Resources stand

up and talk about openness, accountability, transparency and so on.

I think people like, sometimes, to be reminded; because when you constantly

hear things from a government as to what we are doing, you sometimes forget

about what they said they were going to do but did not do, and also what they

fail to tell you that they did. If it is a mistake, for example, they do not

like to come out and disclose those things. Sometimes they tell you they are

going to do something and they actually change their mind but do not come back

to tell you that they changed their mind. That, of course, has happened with

this government repeatedly, and I am going to get into some of those examples.

For example, we go back to as early as 2003. A lot of the members on the

government side - I have been here since 1999. In 2003, when the government

changed, all I heard was: You did this; you did that. Every time an Opposition

member would stand up and say something, the government members would throw

across the alleyway here: Oh, what about this you did? What about something else

you did?

That is the benefit or the beauty of time. I guess time sometimes puts you in

a position where you can go back and evaluate what you have done. It is history.

A lot of times you can go back now - they have a bit of history. This government

has about seven years of history now, and some of it they do not want to hear

about.

I say to the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, don't be blowing your

horn over there now; because you are the same minister who is looking after that

office in Ottawa that we have a lease on until 2013, that is costing us hundreds

of thousands of dollars, that we have nobody in. So, don't go blowing your horn

about what the government is doing.

Anyway, let me go back because I would like to be factual. I like to be

factual, Mr. Speaker, in what I am saying. When the government came in, when

they were in Opposition, they created this famous document called their Blue

Book. I would just like to explain a couple of the Blue Book things that they

said, and we will see where they have gone with that.

First of all they talked about setting up legislative committees in key

policy areas, with the power to initiate legislation, propose amendments to

government legislation, and investigate and report on the progress of government

programs in their policy areas. Now, that is what they said they were going to

do. They committed to that: legislative committees.

Folks, if you go back and look at Hansard since 2003, this Opposition - the

Opposition that was there from 2003-2007 - repeatedly asked for legislative

committees to deal with different issues that cropped up in our Province. Never

once did this government commit and follow through on that commitment. I will

give you a couple of examples.

We dismantled FPI. There are a lot of things, by the way, that we do not have

in this Province any more. We do not have the old flagship of the fishing

industry, FPI. That was all scrapped and done. That is the case when everybody

would want to remember, we had a special session of the House of Assembly. That

is the one where the Premier, who heads this government, created a bill to

destroy FPI. Actually, that is exactly what it was; it was to get rid of FPI.

Guess what? The same Premier who heads the government that brought in the bill

to get rid of FPI, he got up himself and voted against the bill - unheard of;

unheard of.

Imagine, in a democratic system, that the Premier disagreed with it, did not

want to do it, but he allowed the government he probably instructed everybody

else: this is where we have to go, but I cannot get up and say that.

I think the word he used was: being a lawyer and so on, there might be too

many loopholes in this. I cannot be involved in this. So he voted against it,

but he told everybody else to vote for it.

Meanwhile, I digress because what we had asked for there, of course, was a

legislative committee to deal with that. No, no, no, that was not on. We could

not do that. We have asked for legislative committees on a dozen things. No go.

They also said there would be the appointment of a special committee of the

Legislature that would ensure proper scrutiny and public discussion of federal

proposals in areas of provincial concern. Now, can anybody on the government

side tell me that you have done that, or would I be fair in saying that you did

not keep that commitment? We are seven years in and you did not do that. You

broke your promise. It is pretty straightforward. In fact, the only thing you

have done with the federal government talking about federal government

policies and initiatives is that the Premier had a personal attack on the

Prime Minister. We have all heard about ABC and everything else. We certainly

never had much oversight from the Legislature by any special committees to look

at anything.

There was a commitment to limit political contributions by persons and

corporations. I do not see much of that gone on in the last seven years. So,

what is this? This is just a wish book that you put out, is it, when you are

trying to get elected? You tell people you are going to do all of this stuff,

and then when you get in government you change your mind, but that all comes

back to haunt you. Somebody over there is going to wear this. Eventually, people

will make you wear this. You cannot get away with that forever and a day. People

say: If you tell us something, you should follow through; and, if you do not,

you should tell us why you are not.

That is like the example I referenced today. I attended the Estimates

Committee in this House this morning with the Department of Justice. That is an

opportunity, for those who do not know in the public, the viewing audience, to

understand that it gives you an opportunity to question what government said in

their Budget this year, where are they with certain programs and things they are

going to do?

We found out this morning, in the Estimates, that this government had

committed to building a women's and youth detention centre in Happy Valley-Goose

Bay. Now, the Minister of Labrador Affairs, who is the Member for Lake Melville,

we had him up shouting and screaming and bawling up in his district last week,

touting the fact that he got the air ambulance service. He was pretty proud

about that, even though it may have negative consequences for someone else. He

was up shouting to the rooftops about how effective he was, and how much pull he

had to get that done and to bring it up to Happy Valley-Goose Bay. Well, I never

heard him out shouting and bawling about the fact that he is not going to get

his detention centre. I never heard that. I never saw any press releases on

that. That was hid away in a little document thing. That was hid away in the

Estimates that he is not going to get it, confirmed this morning by the Minister

of Justice and the Attorney General of this Province.

I noticed a little expenditure there last year for $2 million, but when it

was revised it said $250,000. So the logical question of course, and the Leader

of the NDP asked the same thing, was: What happened to that? What is that all

about? The minister said: Oh, we were going to design and we were going to build

a detention centre but we changed our mind. So I said, you spent a quarter of a

million dollars plus, you scrapped it. When did you tell anybody that? Did you

tell the Minister of Labrador Affairs? I am sure he would be excited about that,

knowing that the detention centre was not going to his hometown. He would have

been out and had his people in his district all upset about this. This was

infrastructure that was going to go in his town. This would have created some

employment in his community. Did you tell him that? Did you tell the Minister of

Aboriginal Affairs? She comes from the North Coast. She represents a lot of

Aboriginal women and youth. I wonder, was she told that this got scrapped? I did

not hear her out screeching and bawling about it. No.

So the government is right there to put out press releases. We have had more

press releases in this House in the last three years about the Red Tape

Reduction Committee than you want to care for. If you go back and size it up, we

probably could have kept Abitibi and Stephenville going from the paper that they

have generated. No, we did not see that. That quietly gets done, snuffed and

slipped under the carpet, and this government, no members in it says anything

about it. I think there is a commitment; there is an obligation on you as a

government. You normally just disclose what you want to disclose and you hide

the bad news. If you are totally responsible, transparent, open and accountable,

you would tell all of it and give your reasons.

I am sure the Minister of Finance, who was the former Minister of Justice, he

would have done the right thing. No doubt about it. He would not have left it to

be found in an Estimates Committee, that you scrapped something. Lo and behold,

that is what happened. So that is just an example of some Blue Book commitments,

we call them, that were not ever kept. Have never been kept and will never see

the light of day, unless people raise them, like we are doing here, and let

people know in this Province that there are lots of opportunities here to look

at this government and say why we do not have confidence in them. How can you

have confidence in someone who tells you one thing, do not do it half the time,

changes their mind and do not tell you about it? I think that is a good reason

to lose confidence sometimes. I think that is a very good reason actually; a

pretty legitimate one.

Another reason, I dealt with this in Estimates the other day with the

Minister of Industry and Trade. We had this big ballyhoo about the fibre optic

cable back a few years ago. The government put $15 million into a company that

was owned by the Premier's buddies. The company's name was Persona. We stood up

here in this House; we asked questions repeatedly day in, day out: What is it

going to do? What are the benefits of it? What is the money going to be used

for?

What happens, Mr. Speaker? We quietly get a press release come out of ITRD

from this minister, five years after the fact, a little one or two liner and

says: It is not on. It is cancelled. It is not going to be done any more. We had

these big grandiose plans that as part of what we were going to get for our

money, we were going to connect all the government offices and agencies in the

Province. It is not so bad in St. John's were you have high-speed Internet, but

the plan was to link together all of the social service offices, the courtrooms,

the police detachments and whatever in rural Newfoundland, so that they would

all be high speed, more efficient.

All of a sudden we get told this year, quietly, in a little - I am not sure

if it was a Friday afternoon when it came out, but that seems to be the usual

play. It might have even been a Friday afternoon, if we go back and check. It is

scrapped, because it went from $200 million to $500 million. By the way, we only

found any of this out because we asked questions about it. Nobody came out and

said the real detailed reasons as to why this was not on any more. If you go

back and check it was found in the body of a press release that was totally

unrelated. That is openness; that is accountableness. I did not see anything out

there from the minister saying: we have cancelled the project to put high-speed

Internet to all of our agencies and government offices. That would have been

pretty open and accountable. I do not think that headline was out there, folks.

No.

MR. SKINNER: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development, on a point

of order.

MR. SKINNER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the reason you did not hear me stand up and say that we

cancelled the project was quite simply because the project has not been

cancelled. It would be incorrect of me, it would be false information. It would

inaccurate. It would be me telling things that were not true to the people of

the Province, if I were to say that. Now if somebody else were to say that, that

would be a different thing.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is no point of order.

The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Obviously, there is no point of order here. The minister gets his opportunity

to respond, Mr. Speaker. It is obvious that you are hitting home when the

minister has to come to his feet to try to pipe you down because of what you are

saying is true. What I am saying here is absolutely truthful. This minister told

me in this House this week: that idea of connecting it right now, if something

does not happen, it is dead. It is dead! What we intended to do is dead!

MR. SKINNER: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

If the hon. minister has a point of order I ask him to make it now.

The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development.

MR. SKINNER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I just stand again to say that the comments that are being made

were not comments that were made, and if one were to check Hansard one would see

that those comments were not made by me.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Again, no point of order.

The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The minister is just trying to use my time, that is all he is doing, Mr.

Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, that was just one. The broadband, I talked about that. I talked

about the shutting down of the detention centre. Nobody knew about that. Another

one is the fish and wildlife officer's report. Now the Minister of Finance

currently, he knows all about this. That was the case of retired Justice

Marshall. Maybe there is an intention to give us that report, too. We have a

partial one. The Premier, of course, when it came on some years ago there were

some problems in the inland wildlife officer's enforcement program. So we bring

in Justice Marshall, retired, to get a report. We have a partial one. He told us

he was going to give a final report. We asked here in this House, we asked in

letters, we went to the Department of Justice. We went to the Premier and said,

where is the report? I asked this morning. The Deputy Minister of Justice tells

me he has no idea; no timelines. He does not know if we are ever going to get

it. It is up to the good justice, whenever we get it. We are four years out.

This is the government that likes to be cautious but at the same time deal with

issues. They do not know where it is.

There was some suggestion even in, if you read carefully, the media. The

Premier was out for years saying we are not going to talk to Hydro-Quebec when

it comes to the Lower Churchill. We want nothing to do with them. We are going

alone. That is where we stand. If you go back carefully and you check the

records you will find out that this government indeed, quietly, secretly, talked

to Hydro-Quebec about taking an equity stake in the Lower Churchill. That is

contrary to what anybody told us they were doing.

We also have the cases of the privacy commissioner having to go to court

because this government refuses to release documentation. The current Premier

stood up here in this seat over here back in 2002 and talked about how the act

was flawed. Even though the government of the day, by the way, made the first

overhaul ever of the Freedom of Information Act in twenty-odd years, made giant

steps as to where we were, to where we came, and putting a process in place -

and tacked on to that, of course, the issues of privacy as well. Lo and behold,

Opposition becomes government; all of a sudden the gates get shut. Our Privacy

Commissioner, information officer, he has his hands full trying to contend with

court documents to squeeze information out of this government. He spends most of

his time in court, trying to get documents that he thinks everybody should have

but this government says, now: No, no, no, no, you cannot do that.

It is like school air quality reports - just to touch on a few - can we put

these on-line? No, no, you cannot get them. I mean, that is like hauling teeth,

your own teeth, trying to get school air quality reports. Restaurant inspection

reports - big deal; they are done. They are in the government services. We say:

Can you put them on-line? Oh no, no, we cannot do that. We can put everything

else on-line in this world today and we cannot put the restaurant inspection

reports on-line? Come on; get serious. How bad is it to put it on-line? How

costly is it to put it on-line, to do that?

It is even laughable. It is like the briefing notes thing. You talk about

government is open and accountable. We had the former Minister of Health, the

Member for Terra Nova, who really tried to pull a fast one. He was so smart, and

he had such a good memory, that he did not need a briefing note. Now, I do not

know about the rest of us; we probably have half-decent sized brains and

memories, but he went out before the media of this Province and said: I do not

need a briefing note. I only have the biggest department, probably the most

important department, with the biggest budget and the most programs within the

government sphere. I do not need a briefing note. I do not need that.

I do not know if that was arrogance or if that was just a case of not wanting

anybody to say: show me the briefing note. I think it is more of a case of: we

do not want to show you the briefing notes. The reason, of course, is, you might

know what is going on.

Mr. Speaker, my time is up for speaking and, because of the nature of what I

am speaking and the truthfulness of what I am saying, I am not even going to

bother to ask for leave.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further debate on the sub-amendment of the Budget?

The hon. the Minister of Government Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. O'BRIEN: Mr. Speaker, I am certainly happy to get up and speak here

today because, yes, I have been blamed for being very active in the House of

Assembly sometimes and, yes, I must agree with the Speaker and I must agree with

other people in this hon. House and the people actually who look at it on TV,

that I do engage at times. It is just because some of the comments that some of

the hon. members across the House make incite me, Mr. Speaker. I have to

apologize for that, because it is only in my nature to get up and actually say

what is on my mind, especially when I hear things that are as far from the truth

as what they are. That is what really incites me, Mr. Speaker.

I was here last Thursday and I engaged, as you probably know and remember,

Mr. Speaker, and sometimes maybe you have had to remind me to actually quieten

down at times and whatnot. I apologize to you, Mr. Speaker, for that, but I

cannot tell you and promise you today that I am going to stop that and I am

never going to do it; because the simple reason is that I again have to say what

is on my mind when somebody is putting things out there that are not entirely

true.

I was here in the House last week and I listened to the hon. member, the

Leader of the Opposition, talking about various members on this side of the

House, Mr. Speaker, in regard to the way they represent the people they were

elected to represent. Really, when you listen to what she said, she was implying

that they do not represent them in the correct way; they do not represent them

to the best of their ability.

That is not what you see, Mr. Speaker, at all; because, as Minister of

Government Services, I can look around this room right now, this very House,

this hon. place, and I see just about every member here has been in my office

over the last four months, six months, three months whatever it may be

advocating on behalf of their district, advocating on behalf of their

constituents. That is exactly what they do.

I said last week, and I do not mind saying again, when I looked over at the

Leader of the Opposition and she was talking about this member and that member,

I said: My God, it was the resurrection of the dead the resurrection of the

dead - because when I was elected in 2003 the then Leader of the Opposition was

Roger Grimes and I saw him going through caucus and trying to advocate that they

were not representing their districts and representing their constituents, and

trying to tear them apart personally.

Well, as we saw and see in the polls every single day - we see every single

day - the polls clearly, clearly, show that does not work. Then we see the next

Leader of the Opposition - I think Mr. Gerry Reid - he did exactly the same

thing. Then on Thursday, lo and behold, the current Leader of the Opposition, or

Acting Leader of the Opposition, who is trying to be the Leader of the

Opposition and certainly has indicated that she is going to be running for the

leadership of the Opposition come this October in Gander maybe I should drop

into it, I suppose, and see what in the hell is going on down there; because

they will not have enough people there to vote, probably, because they will not

get enough in there, because they are only around 8 per cent in the polls. I was

saying last week they are probably going to be at minus two by the time she is

over with it, going through the hon. Member for Lewisporte, who advocated on

behalf of his district, worked with the minister, worked with ministers, and

really influences, as MHAs always do, influences government as a whole. That is

exactly what they do on a daily, daily basis.

I am the Minister of Government Services, a department that is purely a

service department, a regulation department, an enforcement department. Each and

every day we touch the lives of somebody, people in this district, be it from

births to death to inspection processes in regard to electrical or

environmental.

I just heard the member when he talked - the member on the other side - about

environmental health, and the posting of those environmental health inspection

processes on-line. It just came back in my mind, and I know that it is not

related to what I am going to talk about here this afternoon, but that is a big

issue. We have been endeavouring to post everything on-line. We believe in

transparency; we believe in accountability. You know, each and every time that

there has been a request come into my department, we turned it around in

twenty-four hours with regard to any issues regarding food premises and whatever

else they wanted; we did it. Now, at this point in time, because of demands on

government with regard to software and those packages around IT, we just cannot

put it on-line. It is not that easy. It is not like you just stick it in there

and it is all up there; you have to do it right. You have to do it right in the

first place. You just cannot do it. They make it sound like we are not doing it

for reasons that they think: that it is because we are trying to cover things

up. It is not that at all. It is just that you have to do it right and you have

to have the right processes.

I hear, too, and I think it was last week as well - you know, we have

challenges right now in the fishing industry. The Minister of Fisheries is

trying to address the issues. He is not willing and we are not willing - this

government is not willing - to put a Band-Aid on the issue, that has been put on

it for the last number of years. I often say, which is a little bit of

stretching the truth, that we have had problems in the fishing industry since

John Cabot threw the first basket over the side of his boat. We have, and we

recognize how important that fishery is to Newfoundland and Labrador and the

economy of Newfoundland and Labrador, but we also recognize that it is very

important to rural Newfoundland and Labrador because that is where the main crux

of the fishery is. That is where they employ people. It is very, very important;

but then, in turn, we cannot continue to just throw money at it, make it go away

for a year, and then have it back on our plates the next year. We have to have

sustainability. We have to have a future to the fishery in Newfoundland and

Labrador. That is what we have to have. That is what it is all about.

When you hear the Leader of the Opposition talking about the fishery, and

talking out of two sides of her mouth because we must remember, she used to be

the Minister of Fisheries at one time. That is exactly what she was, the

Minister of Fisheries. Where was she? She was probably in a helicopter flying

around Labrador, all above it, doing nothing about it. Then, all of a sudden,

she is over there with all the answers. Well, I am not really sure if she has

the answers, but she is implying that she has all the answers, but she does not

come forward with all the answers in Question Period. She comes forward with

nothing - absolutely nothing. I have not heard a thing, not a thing from the

hon. member, in regard to that fishing industry. Not a thing, other than talking

out of the two sides of her mouth, throw the money at it again and make it go

away for this year and let it go. Absolutely, we want everybody back fishing. We

want everybody processing fish. We want people working, absolutely we do.

I think that the fishing industry, the people who work within that fishing

industry, want long-term sustainability as well. That is what they want,

absolutely. In the long term, that is exactly what they want. So they all have

to come together and work it together. That is what they have to do.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. O'BRIEN: It drives me crazy to listen to the Leader of the Opposition

going on with the rhetoric and trying to imply that members over on this side of

the House are not doing their job. They are absolutely doing their jobs. You

went through several members last week, and I just could not sit in my seat here

and sit back and take that. I just could not do it. It is not in my nature and I

never will. As long as I am elected in this House of Assembly, I will not be

doing it; I will be honest with you. I am vocal in the House of Assembly, I

apologize - but I make no apologies for that because I always will be.

We hear from the various members on the other side of the House, the

Opposition, they all talk about rural Newfoundland and Labrador, because it is

the only thing, really, that they can put their hook into, because it is a kind

of as I would say, as a member a grey area. You cannot really see the

significant growth that you would see in an urban centre in rural Newfoundland

because it is so spread out. I got up in this House of Assembly, which the

people of rural Newfoundland clearly understand - you will not have

manufacturing plants in Terra Nova at such a degree that you would see in

Scarborough, that you would see in London, Ontario. You will not have that,

because it is just not there to be had, because the people, in regard to human

resources and challenges, et cetera, it just will not be there.

Can you grow the economy in rural Newfoundland and Labrador? Can you grow the

economy and diversify the economy? Well, yes, we have; and yes, we are. Of 80

per cent of $11 million from the Regional/Sectoral Diversification Fund, where

has it gone to? In rural Newfoundland and Labrador, that is where it is going.

Absolutely diversifying the economy, that is exactly what it is doing.

Then they are out there and they talk about strategies. One minute they are

saying you have a strategy for this and you have a strategy for that, and you

have a strategy for this and you have a plan and blah, blah, blah. Then they put

down all the plans and that kind of stuff and all you do is develop strategies.

Then, all of a sudden, I remember last week - I cannot quote it exactly - they

were asking for a strategy. Where is your strategy, they said, in Question

Period? Where is your strategy, where is your plan? All of a sudden again, they

were talking out of the two sides of the mouth.

I was in business for thirty-odd years and every single morning I got out of

bed I had a plan; I absolutely had a plan. I had a plan to make money, and that

is exactly what I had; I had a plan.

AN HON. MEMBER: Did it work?

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, it did work. I say to the hon. member it did work and I

did make money, absolutely. I do not make any apologies for that either, Mr.

Speaker, because that is called growing the economy, that is called employing

people and that is exactly what I did. I did not go looking for government help

in regard to the businesses that I was in; not one red cent. I went to the

banks, I invested, I took risks and I employed people and I grew the economy.

That is what I did. I employed people, a good many of them, not only in this

country but also in other countries as well. I am proud of it; I am absolutely

proud of it. I am proud of all the other entrepreneurs that are out there in

rural Newfoundland and Labrador and out in Newfoundland and Labrador in general

that does that as well. Absolutely, that is what it is all about.

Now sometimes we do have to help. We have to because there are challenges,

because there are certain areas you just cannot develop that easily and just go

to the banks and that kind of stuff and they are going to invest because of the

risk. Sometimes, because of the risk, you have to help that particular

entrepreneur to get off their feet and get moving. That is exactly what we do in

regard to the investments that we have made. We have made various tax credits

and other incentives across Newfoundland and Labrador and people in rural

Newfoundland and Labrador avail of all those as well.

I heard the hon. Leader of the Opposition, she was talking about Gander. She

was talking about how important rural Newfoundland and Labrador was to Gander;

that is my region. I will be the first one to say that one of my businesses, in

particular, was built in regard to the rural people of that region supporting me

in business, travelling in over the Gander Bay road, which is now all paved. It

is just about all paved down to George's Point, so now they have a pleasant ride

into Gander to diversify our economy, to support the economy of Gander.

I also will be the first one to say that Gander would not really survive

without the investments from rural Newfoundland and Labrador, from that region

in particular, and how important it is in regard to the fishery, Beothic fishery

down in Bonavista North, out in the Twillingate area, out in Fogo area and all

of that kind of thing. That is exactly what grows it all. Then, when they get up

and talk about rural Newfoundland and Labrador and how this government has

forgotten rural Newfoundland and Labrador, it just goes right through me. What

little hair I have left on my head stands up, because the simple reason is we

have invested heavily in rural Newfoundland and Labrador. We have spent our time

in rural Newfoundland and Labrador. What was one of the first things we did in

the 2004 Budget? In the 2004 Budget, one of the first things we did was we

started to build a foundation from the ground up. Where we started that was in

provincial roads program, because we saw that it was absolutely important to

have good transportation -

AN HON. MEMBER: There are no roads (inaudible).

MR. O'BRIEN: No roads left, I agree with the hon. member.

I remember when I was up on the Northern Peninsula as well in regard to - the

hon. member mentioned to me about tires last night, studded tires. He was

talking about campaigning up on the Northern Peninsula. I was up on the Northern

Peninsula as well and I remember saying to a particular constituent, I was at

the door and they asked me why they should vote for our particular candidate. I

said: Well, you do me a favour now. Before you vote on Tuesday, you get in your

vehicle, you drive to Deer Lake and you drive back and then make up your mind. I

would hope after that drive, if that particular person took that drive, they

would have voted for us because I was up there in 2001-2002 and it was a cow

path, a total cow path all the way from Deer Lake to St. Anthony. Now it is

totally resurfaced all the way, a pleasant ride, absolutely, a long ride but an

absolutely pleasant ride, all the way from Deer Lake up to St. Anthony.

These are the kinds of investments that we have made in rural Newfoundland

and Labrador. That is exactly what we have done.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. O'BRIEN: We have not forgotten other districts as well that we do not

even hold. Even the hon. the Leader of the Opposition has a brand new school

going into her district.

MS JONES: (Inaudible).

MR. O'BRIEN: Look at this - two. She says two. Well, I tell you it is one

of the first times that I have seen you stick your hand up and say good work,

absolutely good work of this government, and I commend you for that. Now, you

are not going to be allowed to cross the House, and I am not going to help you

win the leadership in Gander and that kind of stuff. All I am going to do is

advocate that you go, as I indicated, to Wal-Mart - I spent lots of money in

Wal-Mart; I spent lots of money down in Canadian Tire - $200-and-some-odd on

Sunday morning, I think it was, or Saturday morning in Canadian Tire, and that

kind of stuff. You have to, when you are there, spend your money, all fifteen of

you, because that is all there will be at the AGM, I guess, fifteen or twenty.

Anyway, try to spend as much money as you possibly can.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. O'BRIEN: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely! Shaking, I am sure they are. I

say to the hon. member, sir, there is nobody shaking in all that is shaking in

Gander is the economy, because if you go out there you will see growth, you will

see housing at the highest; 100-odd houses are going to be built in Gander again

this year. That is because Gander is in a positive mode; it is in with this

government. We are doing well off this government. Council is working hard in

regard to what they do, and Gander is the growth area in this Province. That is

exactly what it is all about.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, the expansion of the James Paton Memorial Hospital

redevelopment, another $3 million-odd gone into the James Paton Memorial

Hospital. They have $300,000-odd gone into the MRI in regard to establishing

that and regard to operational issues surrounding that. We have another $1

million-odd gone into St. Paul's High School. Why? Why did we have to put $1.5

million or $1.8 million into that school? It is because of the growth of

population of Gander. That is exactly it. We have a growing population. We have

a growing population; we do not have a decrease in population. We have a growth

area in this Province and that is exactly what it is. That comes from hard work,

hard work by all the stakeholders, not only myself. There are a lot of

stakeholders involved in that growth and there are a lot of positives. There is

a lot of confidence in Gander in regard to a growth area.

Certainly, I am proud to be the Member for Gander because we have growth in

Glenwood, we have growth in Appleton, and we have absolutely fabulous things

happening in Benton, too. We have growth in Bonavista North as well that

supports Gander, and Gander supports Bonavista North. All of the investments,

any investments that I see going into Bonavista North, I am proud of it, for the

simple reason is that it is a benefit to Gander as well, because we are all

neighbours. We are all in it together. That is exactly what it is. That is why

we invest in the districts that we do not even represent, because for the simple

reason, it is in the best interest of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

That is what it is. Because when we were elected, regardless if we owned the

seat or not, we represent the people of Newfoundland and Labrador as a

government and we have made conscious decisions for the best of the people.

Some of the decisions we make may very well not stand good in regard to some

of the districts that we have, and that kind of stuff. They might not agree but

we do it based on data, based on information and based on making the right

decisions to get the best bang for the dollar. The bottom line of it is that we

are spending the people's money regardless of where it comes from. Be it from

the industries, be it from taxation, be it from the oil industry, be it from

whatever it is, it is still the people's money. We have to protect that money.

We have to get the best bang for that as we possibly can, and one of the areas

that we have to get that is in our health. That is what we have to have. We have

to provide the best quality health at the best dollar value that we possibly can

to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. That is exactly what we have to do.

That is wise, fiscal management. That is exactly what we have, and that is the

reason why we find ourselves here today in this time in history that we have

weathered the global recession better than just about anywhere else in this

world. Better than anywhere else in this world.

The Leader the Opposition can go out and she can shop tonight in the Avalon

Mall with relative ease because the retail sector is up in Newfoundland and

Labrador. Absolutely up! She can go and she has a wide array of things to look

at and consider for her to buy. That is exactly what she has, because the retail

sector is up. People are moving forward in this Province with confidence. That

is exactly what they are doing. Confidence, it is all about confidence in the

economy.

Mr. Speaker, when I go back again, when I see a member across the House

trying to relive things in the past and talk about MHAs personally in regard to

how they conduct their affairs and how they represent the people and put out

false accusations in regard to how they do that, false information in how they

do it. That really gets to me, because I had to get up in the House today -

because I did not get the chance to get up in the House on Thursday but

certainly this is the first opportunity that I have had to get up in the House

and

MR. SPEAKER (Kelly): Order, please!

I remind the hon. member that his time for speaking has expired.

MR. O'BRIEN: By leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. O'BRIEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will not be too long, Mr. Speaker. I will not go on because I think people

in this House and I think people out in rural Newfoundland and Labrador and

people in Newfoundland and Labrador got the message that every member in this

House of Assembly is here to represent the people that elected them, number one.

They are here for the best of the Province; that is where they are. That is the

reason why they put their name on the ballot, because it takes a lot of guts to

put their name on a ballot, I will guarantee you that. That does not come easy.

People think that people jump on the bandwagon for various reasons and whatever

it may be but that takes guts to do that, and you want to do the best possible

that you can for your people, for your district, for the people of Newfoundland

and Labrador. That is the reason why we sit in this House.

So when I sit here and I hear someone across in the Opposition, particularly

the Leader of the Opposition, who will pinpoint MHAs because they think they

might have something little on to them in regard to the way they represent their

district. Well then, certainly, I want to get up and counterbalance that, Mr.

Speaker, because I can say categorically, I can say truthfully and even for

themselves, you try to represent your people to the best of your ability.

With that, Mr. Speaker, I am seeing that the Leader of the Opposition wants

me to clue up now. She gave me leave, now she is taking it away. So I do not

know where I am in regard to where I am speaking here today. I will tell you,

and I will leave you this thought, Mr. Speaker, one thought and one thought

only. Keep this in your mind I say to the Leader of the Opposition, this

government will never forget rural Newfoundland and Labrador.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Chair recognizes the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am happy to rise and speak to the main motion that is being debated today.

Mr. Speaker, I will try and keep my comments to the point because I know you

have just listened to a whole lot of drivel for the last twenty-five minutes.

Mr. Speaker, I suppose a couple of insightful comments from the Member for

Gander -

MS BURKE: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

I am looking for direction from the House, if we will vote on the

non-confidence and the sub-amendment before we move back into the main motion on

the Budget?

MR. SPEAKER: Is the House ready for the question?

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the sub-amendment?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Nay.

MR. SPEAKER: The sub-amendment has been defeated. The nays have it.

On motion, sub-amendment defeated.

MR. SPEAKER: Are we ready for the question on the amendment?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Nay.

MR. SPEAKER: Okay, the nays have it.

On motion, amendment defeated.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am glad we got that over with. I do not know if we should have a recount. I

do not know if we should have a recount. I will have to check Hansard tomorrow

to actually see how that vote is being recorded, Mr. Speaker, because I think at

one point you actually overturned the government on the first part of the

motion. Anyway, we will have to check Hansard tomorrow and see how that was

conducted.

Mr. Speaker, as I was saying, there are a number of points that I want to

make. I know that we have just heard a lot of drivel from the Member for Gander.

Of course, he likes to talk about how he is so active in the House. I mean, the

most activity you have is the heckling that he has on the other side, and every

now and then he will get up and say a few words, and when he does he does not

say anything, Mr. Speaker. It is one thing to be active and it is another thing

to be productive, I say to the minister - which are two very different things.

Anyway, Mr. Speaker, I was very flattered by the comments he made about me,

especially when he was talking about how, when the Leader of the Opposition is

up speaking, she drives me crazy, he said. Then he went on to say: You start to

go right through me.

I say to the minister that my colleague there, the member for Bay Roberts,

has lots of Pepto-Bismol, so if the next hour is going to be a little bit tough

on you, Minister, we will send you over a few scoops.

Mr. Speaker, the reason that I hit a nerve with the members opposite is

because they know what I say to be true, they know what I say to be factual, and

they cannot own up to their mistakes that they continuously make. They do not

want to hear about it. They do not want to hear about how they are destroying

and destructing rural Newfoundland and Labrador, Mr. Speaker, in this Province.

They find that unbearable. That is the kind of stuff that really drives the

minister crazy, and that is what he refers to.

He does not like the fact, Mr. Speaker, that they have their mistakes pointed

out to them, and how they are draining the public purse; how they are pouring

money down the drain every day because of the decisions that they are making,

and the mistakes and the errors that they are making on behalf of the people of

this Province. Those are the kinds of things, Mr. Speaker, they do not want to

hear.

The minister came in today to play defence. He was happy to play defence for

his colleagues today, Mr. Speaker, trying to do a little bit of stickhandling on

the floor of the House of Assembly, because he knows that in the comments I made

last week, I referred to the members on the government side who did not stand up

for their constituents because they were afraid that they would be barred from

the blue room - the caucus room, the Tory caucus room - they would not stand up.

The ones who did stand up, the ones who did have enough nerve, a little bit of

nerve, enough backbone to actually go out there and say, I am going to stand

with my constituents, within twelve hours they were kowtowing to the government,

back on their knees apologizing, Mr. Premier, apologizing Mr. Minister: I did

not mean to say that; I will never stand up for my constituents again because I

want to be in the circle. I want to be in the big Tory circle in the big blue

room.

Mr. Speaker, this is the kind of stuff that drives them crazy, and I am glad

he admitted it today. I am glad he admitted it today because, Mr. Speaker, it

shows that the truth hurts. It shows that you do not want to hear about the

blunders, the Williams' government blunders, Mr. Speaker. These are the things

they do not want to hear. They will get up every day and they do not even say

the government any more, when they stand in the House or anything; they say the

Williams' government. They do not refer to themselves as the government of the

people; because governments are of the people, I remind hon. members. They are

of the people, for the people, but over here it is not about the government of

the people; it is about the Williams' government. Every thing is about the

Williams' government.

Let's talk about the Williams' government now for a few minutes. Let's talk

about the Williams' government. Let's talk about the Abitibi deal, the most

costly mistake of any government on a deal since the Upper Churchill was signed

forty years ago. That is the legacy of the Williams' government today, Mr.

Speaker. They knew they made a mistake and they waited ten months - ten months -

before they put out any release to the public, and guess when they put the

release out?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Just a reminder to the hon. member that we are not supposed to use names.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, I will not, but it is the members opposite who

refer to their government as the Williams' government so I thought it was

acceptable. Every one of them, I think, has used it on occasion, Mr. Speaker.

The government I am referring to is the Williams' government. I will put that on

the record and I will refrain from using it, Mr. Speaker.

Let me just say this: what they do not like is their legacy that they are

leaving now on Abitibi. They knew about this mistake since May 2009. They chose,

Mr. Speaker, to put the release out to the public in February 2010, ten months

after they knew that they had expropriated the mill, that they had expropriated

the liabilities, and that they had expropriated half the land in Grand

Falls-Windsor. They waited ten months before they put it out to the public. When

they put it out to the public, Mr. Speaker

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MS JONES: I say to the Member for Grand Falls-Windsor, the Department of

Justice, the lawyers in the Department of Justice, gave us the information. You

go check with the lawyers in the Department of Justice. They are the ones who

gave us the information.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I remind hon. members to address the Chair, please.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, what they do not like and what they did not want

people to know was the big mistake they had made, the costly mistake, the most

scandalous mistake of a government in forty years in this Province. They are

trying to duck it, they are trying to hide from it, and they are trying to hope

that it goes away. It is not going to go away. It is not going to go away.

Mr. Speaker, they waited ten months to tell the people of the Province, and

guess when they told them? They told them in a press release. No big press

conference this time, Mr. Speaker, no big press conference this time; no bunches

of Cabinet ministers and MHAs all popping in, down in the Media Centre, taking

their chairs to hear the big announcement. Oh, no, none of that. One press

release on a Friday afternoon, and guess what Friday it was? It was the Friday

that the Premier was in Florida having his heart surgery. They waited for the

Premier to go to Florida to have his heart surgery; then they put out the

release that they had made a mistake, a booboo, an oops, on the Abitibi file.

That is when they released it.

The same government who ridiculed Eastern Health for putting out a release

late on a Friday afternoon, Mr. Speaker, the same government who was going to go

down and said they should all be taken out and shot because of how they handled

the issue, putting a release out on a Friday afternoon, well, what did the

Minister of Natural Resources do? She waited until the Premier was out of the

country, in a hospital having surgery, ten months after they knew what was going

on; that was when they put the release out, on a Friday afternoon.

Now, Mr. Speaker, what were they trying to hide? What were they trying to

hide? Why was there no big media conference like when they were going to sue

Quebec, when they were going to take on this one, when they were going to take

on that one, when they have the big media shows and they all pile in, Mr.

Speaker, in the Media Centre? They take their chairs, one by one, all in their

suits, tapping and clapping, Mr. Speaker, of the wonderful news of their

government and their Premier. Well, we did not see any of that. There was no

glory in this, Mr. Speaker. There was no glory in them having to admit that we

have made a mistake that will cost hundreds of millions of dollars to the people

of this Province, the very people today who do not have a paycheque because the

fishing industry is shut down and they will not invest any money in it. Those

very same people, Mr. Speaker, the very same people, they are all one people.

They are all one people.

Mr. Speaker, that is how they dealt with Abitibi, and what are we finding out

now? They stand up and say, Mr. Speaker, how do you know how much it is going to

cost? It is laughable that a minister of the Crown could look at me and say to

me, where are you getting your numbers and how much could this cost, when all

the court documents that have been filed in the courts in Quebec with Abitibi

and with the Province have all the information in them. You are the minister of

the Crown, you are in the big inner circle, you are in the big blue room and you

come in here and you ask me where I am getting my numbers. It is laughable. I

tell you I bet there is hardly a minister over there who read the documents yet.

I bet there is hardly a minister of the Crown who has read the court documents

themselves. That is what I would guess, Mr. Speaker.

Now it took a while to get them; we were a few months. We were since February

trying to track down all of the information and get all the cases, but we got

the information. It is unbelievable when you get up and you talk about -

Abitibi's court case in the courts explicitly lays out every single dollar that

they are looking for in terms of $500 million. In fact, Mr. Speaker, when we

were given the briefings on December 16, I think it was when this bill was

coming into the House, I believe we were called up to the Premier's boardroom at

noon on that day, the bill came in at 1:30, or whenever the House opened that

afternoon. Mr. Speaker, we were told in those briefings that Abitibi could be

seeking compensation of up to $300,000 for these assets, but guess what else we

were told? We were also told that Abitibi would have to pay for the

environmental liabilities. When you look at the cost for Buchans, Botwood and

Grand Falls and all of the different aspects of the deal, it would be a net zero

the Premier says, a net zero cost to the people of the Province, assuring us

that there would be no money on behalf of the people of the Province outside of

legal fees or the legalities of what needed to be done.

In fact, Mr. Speaker, it was in an interview, a scrum right outside of this

House of Assembly, at that same time and this is what he said: There is a real

possibility that the Province will not have to pay Abitibi for expropriating its

brick and mortar assets either. He said: When the Province expropriated the

company's water and timber rights about a year ago, it said it would fairly

compensate Abitibi for things like dams and power plants. Williams said

severance payments and the company's environmental liabilities would be

subtracted from the fair market value of those assets. He said, and this is all

quoted, "If the assets do not exceed the liabilities then there would be no cash

payment coming from the government," said the Premier. "Our assessment, at this

particular point in time, is that there would not be a net payment to Abitibi."

That was what he said, Mr. Speaker. Those were the comments. There was a big

picture of the Premier there, having a media scrum, going right along with it.

It was not going to cost us anything, the people of the Province. It would cost

us nothing when everything is said and done. What we are finding out today?

We have already been through the courts once, and we were told: You

expropriated the assets; you cannot now go after Abitibi and ask them to come

and clean up the mess. You now own it. It is your mess; you have to clean it up.

We had to go through the courts, Mr. Speaker, for some judge to send us home and

tell us that.

Then in addition to that, Mr. Speaker, we find out we have expropriated more

assets than we wanted; things such as the mill which is probably going to have

the biggest environmental liabilities attached to it. We know already the bill

is going up.

In addition that, Mr. Speaker, they have decided that on the severance

payments, which they initially said we should get our money back, that they are

not even going to pursue that one now in the courts because they know that there

is no security for it. They know that is not a secured piece that they would be

awarded any money on.

Mr. Speaker, in addition to that, we still have to deal with the NAFTA

challenge because we have expropriated a publicly traded company; we are subject

to the international laws. Although, the case may be against the federal

government, the federal government can certainly come to look for that money

from the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. I do not know what will happen

at that time when those things happen but my guess is, it is going to be a long

time before they see a dollar under NAFTA coming out of this Province, or I

would hope so because that in itself could be another $500 million.

We could be looking at essentially a billion dollar mistake. They look at it

and they say we made a mistake. Mr. Speaker, there are mistakes and then there

are big mistakes. Any time that you are prepared to just say I made a mistake

and prepared to let $500 million, potentially, of people's money pour down the

drain - that is how this government operates.

When the Member for Gander was speaking, he was referring to the fishery and

he said: All the Leader of the Opposition wants is for us to throw money at it.

Well I say to the member that is your style. Your style has always been to throw

money in this Province, Mr. Speaker. That is the style of the government. Every

time that there has been a problem, it has been if we can throw money at it and

we can fix it, not a problem. Guess what? When the money starts running out and

they no longer have the big stog of cash in their back pockets to throw at every

problem, what happens? We see what happens. They have no answers; they have no

solutions.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I am having great difficulty hearing the Leader of the Official Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I certainly cannot speak any louder, so I hope you can hear me.

What I am basically saying is that this government is throwing money at every

problem that has come up in this Province that they could fix with money. The

problem that they cannot fix with money is where they have been unable to find

solutions. It has been easy for them to do, because they have had the money to

do that. They have had millions and billions of dollars, owned by the people of

this Province, and they were able to take that money and spend it however they

wanted.

Mr. Speaker, what is really ironic about all of this is that when the Premier

came out and said about the mistake on Abitibi,