March

28, 2011 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Vol.

XLVI No. 5

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Fitzgerald): Order, please!

Admit strangers.

Today, the Chair would like to welcome a special guest seated in the

Speaker's Galley. This gentleman has championed the calls of both democracy and

political reform. He is the founder of two political parties, both of which

became the Official Opposition in the Canadian Parliament with him as the Leader

of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition. He is now the President of the Manning Centre

for Building Democracy.

Ladies and gentleman, extend a welcome to the Honourable Preston Manning.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Speaker would also like to welcome some other special

guests: The Mount Pearl Seniors Independence Group from the Districts of Mount

Pearl North, Mount Pearl South, and Topsail. The group is accompanied by their

co-ordinator Georgina Smith.

Welcome to the House of Assembly.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: The Speaker also welcomes the following members' statements:

the hon. the Member for the District of Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair, the hon. the

Member for the District of Mount Pearl North, the hon. the Member for the

District of Kilbride, and the hon. the Member for the District of Exploits.

The hon. the Member for the District of Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise in the House today to congratulate Mrs. Agnes Pike on recently

receiving the Herbert D. Brett Lifetime Achievement Award for Community Economic

Development.

Mr. Speaker, this award presented by the Newfoundland and Labrador Regional

Economic Development Association (NLREDA) recognizes an individual whose work

has made lasting contributions to the economic development of community and has

demonstrated outstanding achievement by empowering people to foster economic

growth.

Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Pike who sits on the Labrador Straits Development Board

received this award for her thirty-five years of service at the community,

regional and provincial level. Her efforts as an active board member of a

variety of community, regional, provincial and international organizations have

resulted in millions of dollars being secured for essential community economic

development projects, training and infrastructure throughout the Labrador

Straits and the Labrador region.

Mr. Speaker, while raising five children, managing a community fish plant,

leading municipal council for thirty years, and establishing a successful

private tourism business, Mrs. Pike has managed to be involved in over

twenty-two community, regional, provincial and international committees,

associations and working groups. The total impact of her involvement is

impossible to determine. She has always recognized the clear linkages between

community and economic development and social development. She has been a

driving force in her area in establishing family resource centres, community

youth network, literacy programs and health initiatives for the Labrador

Straits, and as a board member of the International Grenfell Association for

over fourteen years she has secured millions of dollars in funding for a wide

variety of health, education, recreation and community development projects in

Labrador and Northern Newfoundland.

I ask all my colleagues in the House of Assembly to join with me in

recognizing Agnes Pike on winning the Herbert D. Brett award for her outstanding

contributions to Newfoundland and Labrador.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Mount Pearl North.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise in this hon. House today to recognize the Mount Pearl Seniors

Independence Group.

The group is well known in Mount Pearl. Simply put, they are a group of

"Seniors helping Seniors". Originally established to advocate, plan and promote

the independence, dignity, health and well being of vulnerable senior citizens

in Mount Pearl, this group has become so much more.

They work closely and in partnership with the City of Mount Pearl and have a

strategic plan in place to help guide them into the future. Their

professionalism and commitment is outstanding. Operating with an active board of

directors and a coordinator, the Mount Pearl Seniors Independence Group has set

the bar high for other groups in our community. What is truly remarkable about

this group of seniors is that their numbers continue to grow, year after year.

With regular attendance of over 150 members at most events, everybody wants to

be part of this group. Members participate in a weekly drop-in centre where

there are card games and bingo and much more; the annual fall tea party, St.

Paddy's Day lunch, a wonderful Christmas party. As you can see, there is no

shortage of activities!

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join me in congratulating the

Mount Pearl Seniors Independence Group for their continued success and wish them

all the best as they continue to do good work in Mount Pearl. These seniors are

a shining testament to the generosity and great spirit that reigns in our

community.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Kilbride.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DINN: Mr. Speaker, I stand in this hon. House today to pay tribute to

and recognize a very fine young volunteer from my District of Kilbride.

I am referring to Michaela Silver, a nine-year-old Grade 4 student at

Hazelwood Elementary School in St. John's.

Michaela was the poster child for the Canadian Parkinson's Society in 2009.

She appeared in some Canada-wide magazines as well as on all Parkinson's

Superwalk posters all over Canada.

Again in 2010, she was back locally representing the Parkinson Society of

Newfoundland and Labrador doing local TV and radio appearances, encouraging

people to get involved in the 2010 Superwalk, either as a walker or as a

financial contributor.

Michaela personally raised $2,000 in 2009. This past year, after her

participation in the local Superwalk on September 12, she raised over $2,500 for

Parkinson's research; money that will stay in this Province.

Michaela has personally experienced the ravages of Parkinson's in her own

family. Her grandmother died not too long ago after living with Parkinson's for

several years.

I ask all members of this House to congratulate Michaela for a job well-done.

We are all proud of her.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Exploits.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FORSEY: Mr. Speaker, I rise in this House today to recognize the

hockey career and accomplishments of Gene Faulkner of Bishop's Falls.

Mr. Speaker, before being called up by the Senior Cataracts in 1974, Gene had

already displayed his talent and ability while playing for the Grand Falls

Junior Beothuks.

His first full season as a senior player came the following year in 1975,

when he was nineteen. Gene won the league's scoring title with seventeen goals

and twenty-two assists, playing on a team with his uncle Alex Faulkner.

Mr. Speaker, before Gene's hockey career ended in 1994, he would have two

Herder Memorial Championships, six scoring titles, and played in the Allan Cup

three times.

In 2001, he was inducted into the Newfoundland and Labrador Hockey Hall of

Fame and on January 22 of this year during an on ice ceremony, the Grand

Falls-Windsor Cataracts retired his number eight, prior to a regular season game

between the Cataracts and the Corner Brook Royals.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members in this House to join me in congratulating

Gene Faulkner on his successful career and contribution to senior hockey in

Newfoundland and Labrador.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Statements by Ministers.

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister Responsible for the Status of Women.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the Violence Prevention Initiative's Annual Stakeholders'

Conference was recently held in St. John's and attracted more than 180 people

from all parts of Newfoundland and Labrador.

This year's focus was Sexual Orientation and Violence: Preventing Homophobia

and Heterosexism.

Every day, Mr. Speaker, gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people, or

LGBT individuals, as we sometimes reference, are subjected to acts of violence

in schools, workplaces, and communities.

Many of the speakers at this year's conference were able to bring the issues

to light and promote an open discussion of the types and severity of violence

LGBT individuals face, and how we can use the supports that are out there to

enhance our practices to prevent violence against this population.

Mr. Speaker, violence is rooted in inequality. For too long society has

perpetuated inequality against many people. It was said many times over the

course of the conference it is time we all recognize that a person's sexuality

is not a lifestyle; it is just a part of who they are. People are people,

regardless of sexual orientation.

Celebrating the full diversity of our Province, including differing sexual

orientations, is the simplest way we can start to build equal ground for all

residents of Newfoundland and Labrador. Continuing to educate everyone in our

Province, at every age, is our first step to preventing violence against all

vulnerable populations, including LGBT individuals.

As the action plan, Taking Action Against Violence, states, the purpose of

the Violence Prevention Initiative is to increase government and community

capacity to achieve, in the long term, a reduction in violence against women,

children, youth, Aboriginal women and children, older persons, persons with

disabilities and others who are vulnerable to violence because of race,

ethnicity, sexual orientation, or economic status.

Mr. Speaker, our government remains fully committed to working to prevent

violence against all of these populations in pursuit of a province where all

residents can live a life free from violence.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the minister for an advance copy of her statement.

Mr. Speaker, we have a role to play in ensuring that there is education and

awareness around violence prevention in this Province. Governments over the last

ten or twelve years in Newfoundland and Labrador have invested in such programs

to ensure that those types of initiatives are happening all across Newfoundland

and Labrador. Even with the greatest attempts, Mr. Speaker, we still have many

gaps. I think it is important to recognize that.

I am pleased to see that there was a conference to raise the awareness of

violence against people because of their sexuality. Mr. Speaker, I do not think

anyone in society should be treated in any different way simply because of any

orientation, religion, ethnic background, or any of those things.

Most importantly, Mr. Speaker, I think we all as a society have to realize

that bullying in our schools is a form of violence. Right now, our schools are

not prepared to deal with many cases of the bullying that we see. I think of a

number of examples. We have had three lockdowns in our schools in this Province

over the last year. We have had a number of cases. Just off the top of my head,

Mr. Speaker, I know of two cases in particular of a ten-year-old and a

twelve-year-old in this Province who attempted suicide because of bullying in

their schools. I am sure that there are many other cases out there.

So, I think right now we have to accept the fact that many of these issues

are under-reported, but we also have to accept the fact that our school system

is not prepared to deal with a lot of the bullying cases, which ultimately

become violent cases in some instances in one or way or another. We need to

ensure that they are more equipped to start dealing with it.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the minister for the advance copy of her statement.

Naturally, I am really, really pleased that the VPI annual meeting this year,

or their conference, did deal with the whole issue of violence against gay,

lesbian, bisexual, and transgendered people. We do know that the transgendered

people, in particular, experience some of the highest rates of violence and

discrimination in Canada.

I really, though, have to challenge the government. The minister has a job to

do to undo what happened last spring. When we had a bill in this House dealing

with changes to our Human Rights Code and our legislation, this government

refused to add these people, to add the issue of gender identity to our own

Human Rights Code. If we do not respect them enough to recognize specifically

their human rights by putting them in our own code, then that adds to the image

of people out there who think they have the right to act violently against them.

So, I really request this government to look at what it did last June when

the Minister of Justice said, in response to my question, that it was an

evolving right. Well, it is not an evolving right; it is a right that needs to

be named. The violence, as perpetrated against them, shows how much that right

needs to be named.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?

The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, in 2008 Newfoundlanders and Labradorians shared in

a celebration as Danny Cleary, a member of the Detroit Red Wings, became the

first person from this Province to have his name etched on the most coveted

prize in hockey - the Stanley Cup.

On August 17 of last year, Mr. Cleary's accomplishments, both as an athlete

and a role model, were recognized. An interpretative panel and commemorative

print at the Danny Cleary Lookout in his hometown of Harbour Grace was unveiled.

Mr. Speaker, to further recognize this milestone in our sporting history, the

provincial government, through the joint efforts of the Departments of Education

and Tourism, Culture and Recreation, is providing each school in the Province

with a framed limited edition reproduction of that print, titled: Believe in

Yourself.

Designed by artist James Long, the print is not just a tribute to one of our

local sports heroes, but also a reminder of what can be accomplished through

hard work. It is our hope that it will inspire our students to set high

expectations for themselves, and follow through in the pursuit of their own

dreams and aspirations.

Mr. Speaker, this Province has entered into an era of unprecedented growth

and prosperity. As a government, we recognize there is unlimited potential for

further growth and prosperity. We also know that it is today's youth who will be

the driving force behind our future success as a society, and as a people. That

is why, Mr. Speaker, it is incumbent upon us to invest in our young people. They

need opportunities to gain the knowledge, skills, and the confidence to succeed

in their chosen endeavours - whatever they may be.

Mr. Speaker, we have asked schools to display the Danny Cleary print in a

prominent place, so that it serve as an ever-present reminder to students to

believe in themselves and in their own ability to achieve their goals.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of The Straits & White

Bay North.

MR. DEAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to thank the minister for an advance copy of her statement.

Certainly, Danny Cleary we are all proud of as Newfoundlanders and

Labradorians, a tremendous athlete. He is an example, for sure, to our youth of

what can be accomplished when you set your sights and goals and you work toward

that goal. As a Province, he has elevated our Province's place in the NHL in

particular, if you will. To be the first ever must be very special to him, and I

congratulate him on that great accomplishment.

It is somewhat sad that he is playing for Detroit and not Montreal, but I

guess that is all we can do about that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. DEAN: I have members of the government on my side today, Mr. Speaker.

That is a great thing.

It is great that this reproduction of the print, titled Believe in Yourself,

will be in the schools. Just one note that I would say, not all of our young

people, of course, follow sports and there are other areas as well that we would

want to recognize young people, whether it is in the arts, academic

accomplishments and so on, but today is a moment to congratulate Danny Cleary

and it pleases me to be able to stand and do so.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I, too, thank the minister for the advance copy of her statement.

It is really important that we offer to our young people role models to look

up to, and there is no doubt that Danny Cleary is one of those role models.

Also, we know that Danny, himself, has a real interest in our young people. I

remember one of his first stops when he came with the Stanley Cup was to go to

the Janeway Hospital just after he arrived home in 2008. That was a wonderful

thing. His achievements are great and we are proud of him, as we are of all of

our athletes.

I would encourage the government to be further inspired, as I am sure they

can be, by putting more resources into physical education and sports programs

for our children because we do know the children in our schools are not getting

enough physical education. They need more, and we need more resources for that,

Mr. Speaker, and I encourage the government to do that.

I also encourage the government, if we are going to look at athletes who are

role models maybe the government would look at having a series of pictures of

great athletes from our Province and include other men, also women, and people

with disabilities. I think of somebody like Joanne MacDonald who has brought

back home to Newfoundland and Labrador sixty-one medals from games she has taken

part in as a disabled athlete, and a host of national records. We have many to

celebrate as role models and I encourage the government to broaden their vision.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?

Oral Questions.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, in the fall session of the House the Premier

admitted that the cost of Muskrat Falls power will be at least 14.3 cents per

kilowatt hour, that is before Newfoundland Power adds it charges. Mr. Speaker,

Nalcor officials have confirmed for us that the price market energy will set the

price that Muskrat energy will sell into the spot market - that is if they can

get it there - will be anywhere from three to twelve cents per kilowatt hour.

My question today for the Premier is, effectively, the people in the

Maritimes and New England will pay half of what residents in this Province will

pay for the same power, now why would we want to give them their power at a much

cheaper price than what we are going to provide it to Newfoundlanders and

Labradorians for?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SKINNER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the power that the hon. member opposite is referring to is the

excess power that will be available after the completion of the Muskrat Falls

Project. Muskrat Falls, as we know, is the least cost sustainable energy source

that we can develop for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, and we had a

choice. The choice was we could spill the water and get no return on that

spilled water, or we could capture that excess water and run it down the power

lines into Nova Scotia, New Brunswick or New England and get a return on it. We

decided to get a return for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

They operate on the premise that it is the cheapest, most effective. We are

operating on the premise, Mr. Speaker, that they are giving power to Nova Scotia

and to Emera, a private corporation, for half the price or less than half the

price of what people in this Province will have to pay at the end of the day for

their light bill.

I ask you again today, Premier: Will you stand up and tell the people of this

Province why you are choosing to do a deal that will gouge them on their light

bills and at the same time give Nova Scotians a break?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SKINNER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the project that we are developing, the project that we refer to

as Lower Churchill, Muskrat Falls, is being developed to meet the needs of

Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. It is not being developed to meet the needs of

anybody else. We need to make sure that we have a reliable, low cost supply of

electricity available for our own needs.

In building that alternative, Muskrat Falls, which is the least cost

alternative, in building that alternative we have excess capacity. The choice is

to let the excess water run over the falls and get nothing in return or to sell

that water and get something for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. As we

have done with every other project, Mr. Speaker, that we have developed, we will

get something for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The government is dodging the question. They do not want to explain to the

people of this Province why they have done a deal that is going to cost them

twice as much for electricity in Newfoundland and Labrador than what it is going

to cost to the people of Nova Scotia.

Mr. Speaker, Nalcor and SNC-Lavalin announced last week that they finalized a

contract to design and build the Muskrat Falls power station.

Now that the contract is finalized, I ask the Premier today: Will you release

the details of the agreement or are you going to continue to keep the

information secret from the people of the Province?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SKINNER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, this government has been very open in terms of the information

that is made available through the Lower Churchill Project. There is information

available on the Natural Resources Web site, there is information available that

we filed with the Public Utilities Board, there is information available through

the environmental hearings that are going on up in Happy Valley-Goose Bay. There

is all kinds of information that the Premier has tabled, not once but twice here

on the floor of the House of Assembly. There is all kinds of information that we

have put out there, Mr. Speaker. We are certainly not a secretive government.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

With all due respect, I say to the minister, we know that the Minister of

Child, Youth and Family Services took the briefing for her new department, when

she went into it, off the Internet. Mr. Speaker, I fail to agree that all the

details on Muskrat Falls and the contract would be on the Internet; that is why

we are asking the questions.

Mr. Speaker, according to the environmental assessment process, the Muskrat

Falls Project really consists of three subprojects; the generation project, the

Labrador-Island transmission project, and the Newfoundland-Nova Scotia

transmission project. Each of these is at various stages in the environmental

assessment process right now.

I ask the Premier: Why are we finalizing construction contracts when the

project is still undergoing environmental assessment, when it has not been

sanctioned by government, it has no environmental approval granted

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. member to pose her question.

MS JONES: - and the agreement with the Innu has not been ratified?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SKINNER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, given that this government is always looking forward to make

sure that we are ready to meet the needs of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, we

have to start work today for projects that will happen in three, four, five,

eight, ten years down the road. To be able to meet the needs that we anticipate

we will need in terms of our power needs in 2015, 2017, 2018, we need to start

work today on making sure we have the information available. That is what we are

doing. We have been doing it for years, by the way. It is not just something

that we have recently started to do. We have been gathering information to make

sure that when this project is finally given environmental release, we are ready

to move forward with the project, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, but they are out doing environmental

hearings and asking people what their concerns are, and at the same time they

are putting out a contract to do the work before they even hear what people have

to say.

Mr. Speaker, last week the Premier hailed an election eve deal between Ottawa

and Quebec concerning Old Harry. At the same time, Mr. Speaker, she went before

the microphones and said that she knew nothing of the deal and she did not have

the information.

I ask today, Mr. Speaker, if they could tell us what the terms of the

agreement are between Quebec and Ottawa on Old Harry and what impact will it

have on Newfoundland and Labrador?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SKINNER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we do have a copy of the agreement that has been signed between

reviewing that document; it just came into our possession over the weekend is my

understanding. I actually saw a copy of it this morning myself. I have not had

an opportunity to review it.

What I am told by officials at this point, where they have done a cursory

review, is that it is very similar to the accords that have been done with

Newfoundland and Labrador and Nova Scotia. The agreement is very similar. We

will go through it with a fine-tooth comb to make sure that it is something that

is acceptable to us as the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador, but the

In fairness, I would suggest to the member opposite that she may want to

particular discussions or concerns about the negotiations.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Obviously we will have to talk with someone because the Government of

Newfoundland and Labrador is definitely out of the loop on this particular file.

Mr. Speaker, there are, potentially, billions of dollars in royalties at

stake here from a resource that will be owned by Quebec and Newfoundland and

Labrador. Is the minister telling me today that your Premier was not at the

table? Your Premier was not consulted? Your Premier had no knowledge or details

of the negotiations ongoing between Quebec and Ottawa?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SKINNER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, she is resorting again now to fear mongering. When she cannot

make it on the points and she cannot make it on the details of the arrangement,

she will fear monger.

Mr. Speaker, what happened last week was quite simply that the Government of

that the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador and the Government of Nova

opportunity to put in place a dispute resolution mechanism to be able to look at

the boundary that is at issue here.

The assertion that the Opposition Leader makes regarding the value of this

find is very, very preliminary. There has not even been any oil found at this

point, Mr. Speaker, is what I would say to you. It is exploration that is going

to occur and they may find something.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, that was a different tune than the minister was

quoted in saying last week when he said that this could be potentially a larger

find than Hibernia. Today he tells us that he does not know if there is anything

out there.

Anyway, Mr. Speaker, the issue at hand here is that even though we are

talking about a management agreement, the government opposite is going on the

assumption that the agreement might be the same as what exists between Canada

and Newfoundland and Labrador and Canada and Nova Scotia.

I ask the minister again: Why are you out of the loop? Why was Newfoundland

and Labrador not contacted and why was your Premier left out of the details of

this contract until after the fact?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SKINNER: Mr. Speaker, just so we understand, there was an agreement

Government of Quebec sitting by our side while we do those. We are an

independent jurisdiction and we do our own deals. The Government of Quebec do

their own deals, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SKINNER: We are not sitting at that table, and I fail to understand

why the Leader of the Opposition would think that the Government of Newfoundland

with the Government of Quebec separately. They deal with us separately. That is

all there is to it, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, this government announced a new Department of

Child, Youth and Family Services back in March of 2009. This department was

supposed to strengthen the services for children, youth and families but we have

seen little progress. Today nearly two years later we finally had a management

structure in one region of the Province that has been announced. Meanwhile, the

Auditor General discovered that 90 per cent of risk assessments and 94 per cent

of family centred action plans for children in long-term protection were not

completed.

I ask the minister today: Why was the proper work not being done to protect

our children that have been placed in long-term protection?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, government takes the issues regarding child protection, Child,

Youth and Family Services quite seriously. Mr. Speaker, it was based on reports

similar to the AG's report, which include the Clinical Services Review, and the

Turner report, which led this government to create the new department in the

first place. We knew there were issues and we needed to deal with them directly.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker

The minister, in responding to the Auditor General's report, cited things

like risk assessment as only one component. Also, things like the case

management system that they have in place are currently being re-examined at and

restructured.

Well, Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the government this: Whether it is a new

system or an old system of accountability that is in place for the children of

this Province, how adequate will it be if you as a government do not ensure that

the conditions of it are being met?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, the creation of this new department was all about

accountability.

It is all about making sure that the system that is set up for child

protection in Newfoundland and Labrador has the safeguards that are necessary,

has the appropriate risk assessment, and also has the appropriate monitoring

that is attached to it. Mr. Speaker, this government invested over $24 million

in recent years, and created two hundred new positions, but despite that

investment, as government, we did not feel that we were getting the results that

we needed in this program area.

As a result, Mr. Speaker, we have taken this service out of the regional

health authorities; they are in the process of transitioning into a new

department. One thing that is clear, Mr. Speaker, is that we need to make sure

that we do quality control and appropriate audits to ensure that this work, on

an ongoing basis, does meet the necessary standards.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I guess the Auditor General made the hon. member accountable, Mr. Speaker,

because she is no longer the minister in that portfolio.

Mr. Speaker, they have had two years, and in two years the only reports from

the Auditor General have been deficiencies that have occurred in the regulatory

process, I say to the minister. The other thing he indicated is in

section 5 of

the act, that the Director of Child, Youth and Family Services has the

responsibility to monitor and evaluate programs and standards. He pointed out

that the director failed to monitor the protective intervention program

standards, and regularly review or evaluate the program.

I ask the minister today, why have you failed to provide the proper resources

to ensure that our most vulnerable children and the protection system in which

you placed them are functioning properly?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

One thing I need to note, because they are very important questions that are

being posed by the Opposition here today, is that we knew there were issues. One

thing that we saw in the Clinical Services Report that was completed by Susan

Abell, was that there were ten areas where we needed to institute change. One

thing that was particularly important there was to note that to change a system

of this magnitude would take three to five years.

So, we are certainly on track to do that change. Mr. Speaker, it is not

always about a resource issue in this department. It is about how the work is

set up, how the work is completed, and how effective they can be. It is to

ensure that the work is being done, and it is being overseen appropriately, Mr.

Speaker. We can put more and more and more people into a system that is not

efficient, and we are still going to get similar results, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Earlier today, the Citizens' Representative tabled a report on prescription

drug practices at Her Majesty's Penitentiary. Mr. Fleming found that inmates are

not getting proper access to drugs used to manage psychiatric problems. He

reported that despite years of complaints, the psychiatrist employed by the

government is too conservative in his prescribing practices; and, in many cases,

he has cut back or eliminated access to drugs that had been prescribed by other

doctors.

My question is for the Minister of Justice. Minister, you have known about

this problem for years, why haven't you taken action to ensure that prisoners

with psychiatric problems are getting the care they need in order to manage

their mental health issues?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and the Attorney General.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. F. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am delighted to respond to the hon. member's question as to what we are

doing about psychiatric needs in our correctional institutions.

Since the release of the report, the Decades of Darkness, Mr. Speaker, just

two years ago, we have put a number of supports in place to enhance mental

health psychological services in our corrections. We have hired a full-time

psychologist at HMP. We have hired an addiction counsellor at HMP. We have hired

a second nurse. We have an innovative in-reach, transitional planning program

for those with mental illness where people work with people with mental illness

in the institution and follow them outside when they are released. We also have

an intake addictions program offered through the John Howard Society. We also,

Mr. Speaker, have a multi-disciplinarian team in place which consults regularly

on mental health issues. So, we have done a lot, Mr. Speaker, in dealing with

psychiatric situations at HMP.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I understand the minister met with the media just before the House opened and

indicated that he was going to reject and has rejected the report of Mr.

Fleming, the Citizens' Representative, basically because he is not specialized

to make such a conclusion. I say to the minister I guess a lot of us are in

positions that we are not specialized in. The Minister of Health is a lawyer,

not a doctor, as the Minister of Fisheries is a teacher and he is certainly not

a fisherman or has any understanding of the fishing industry.

I say to the minister: Mr. Fleming noted that by continuing to retain the

services of this particular doctor, the minister has breached the fairness

principles contained in the Citizens' Representative Act, a clear breach

indicated by him.

My question to the minister: What have the individual repercussions been of

your department and your failure to properly have drugs prescribed at HMP, and

why are you allowing this to continue?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and the Attorney General.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. F. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, I think the hon. member has effectively

answered his own question.

We rejected the report of the Citizens' Rep for very obvious reasons. The

recommendation in that report was not based on any kind of appropriate standard

of review. Mr. Fleming, in our estimation, does not have the expertise or the

jurisdiction to comment on the professional judgment or prescription practices

of a physician, and neither do I, Mr. Speaker. For that reason, we have rejected

the recommendation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The minister of no answers.

My next question is for the Premier. We all know, of course, of the famous,

or should I say infamous, office that we have in Ottawa and what it costs us on

an annual basis. The same office, of course, that has been unoccupied for

approximately one year now with the resignation of the former representative. We

have claimed for years that this is an absolute waste of money, of taxpayers'

money. For example, this year, we have already paid out over $100,000 for rent

of an office in Ottawa that we have not used and have not had anybody in. If you

call there, someone answers the phone and says we have to refer you back to

Ottawa.

My question to the Premier is: You told us in this House in December it was

on your radar, you would have an answer for us to that question within weeks. It

is now a month and we do not have an answer. Premier, what are you going to do

with the Ottawa office and when are you going to stop wasting the taxpayers'

money?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DENINE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The representative that we had in Ottawa played a very, very important role

and our government at the time thought it very, very important that we have a

connection there between the Province and the federal government. The Premier

said, just before Christmas, that it is under advisement. It is still under

advisement. When the decision is made, we will let you know.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of The Straits & White

Bay North.

MR. DEAN: Mr. Speaker, there is a tremendous amount of uncertainty

regarding the future of the shrimp processing plant at Port Union. The plant was

damaged last fall by Hurricane Igor. Naturally, the 180 or so workers at the

plant are worried about their future. One of the questions, Mr. Speaker, that

they have for the minister, is whether there will be a special program this year

to keep them in some kind of earnings while their plant is down.

I ask the minister: What are you doing to help the plant workers of Port

Union get through a season without employment in their facility?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN: Mr. Speaker, the member for the area, myself, and the

Minister of Municipal Affairs met with a large delegation last Wednesday. It was

an information gathering session, Mr. Speaker, and we have committed that we

will meet with them in a few weeks time to see if we can map out a way forward.

This is a group that, unfortunately, were put out because of Igor last year.

Mr. Speaker, it is a point of note that in the shrimp industry in areas six and

seven, it is very likely there is going to be another cut this year. So, that

can impact on the decision that has been made by the company. The company is

looking at making a final determination around that plant sometime in September

and October.

So, there are challenges that have to be faced, Mr. Speaker. Together, we as

a government, the union, and the company have to work to find a way to support

these workers, and we will do our utmost to do that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for the District of The Straits & White Bay

North.

MR. DEAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, on March 11, grooming ended on snowmobile trails province-wide.

The Newfoundland and Labrador Snowmobile Federation reports that it has run out

of money to continue its grooming this winter. Snowmobiling is an overwhelmingly

popular sport in this Province. I spent all weekend blowing snow and there is

plenty on the Northern Peninsula to last for a long time yet this year. It is an

important source of tourism dollars.

I ask the minister: Is government willing to subsidize the federation so that

it may continue to groom our Province's snowmobile trails and not jeopardize

this all-important winter tourism industry?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FRENCH: Mr. Speaker, I, too, was saddened to hear that the

Newfoundland and Labrador Snowmobile Federation was going to cease grooming.

Around early March they wrote me, Mr. Speaker, to inform me of that.

I guess there is a combination of reasons for that this year. We are

certainly disappointed, the first thing being, that the snow came late. The snow

did not come until the middle or toward the end of January. When it came, it

came in a hurry so the grooming took awhile to get going.

The real reason, Mr. Speaker, is their grooming is based on sales. This year,

they had less than 7,000 sales of permits and normally they plan for 12,000. So,

Mr. Speaker, that is the reason grooming has ceased this year in Newfoundland

and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for the District of The Straits & White Bay

North.

MR. DEAN: Mr. Speaker, part of the reason why trail passes were not sold

this year was not only because the weather was a little late coming, but the

fact is that grooming in this Province is unacceptable. People who normally buy

trail passes are protesting, if you will, the purchase of their trail passes

because what is being offered as a grooming process throughout this trail system

is just not proper.

Mr. Speaker, the Chair of the Newfoundland and Labrador Snowmobile Federation

has come out and said even if the government had granted his requests that they

put forward to have increases in their trail passes and so on, it is unlikely

that enough money would come to cover the operations for this year. The reason

being, the money is just not there to support the infrastructure that is needed.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. member to pose his question.

MR. DEAN: My question is this, Mr. Speaker: Is government willing to

commit to making this sport a priority and make a long-term commitment to help

fund this group?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FRENCH: Mr. Speaker, just let me say that in 2004 there was a piece

of legislation passed in this House, I might add, unanimously; not only did this

side of the House support it but that side of the House certainly supported it.

The Leader of the Opposition stood up and spoke to it; the critic of the day

stood up and spoke to it. Not only did they want it, Mr. Speaker, they wanted to

rush it through the House of Assembly it was so important. Mr. Speaker, that is

exactly what we did. We put through a user pay system. Right now that

legislation lasts in this House. Mr. Speaker, we have not forgotten about the

trails in this Province. As a matter of fact, in the last several years we have

spent millions of dollars on trails in this Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FRENCH: Mr. Speaker, just this fall we spent one million dollars on

repairs to the trail system in this Province. We have hardly forgotten about the

trail system. We will continue to work with the people of this Province, Mr.

Speaker, to make it happen. As a matter of fact, we just struck an

interdepartmental committee for that reason.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, in the light of recent revelations about the death of Mr. Peter

Hickey, at the new Western Health long-term care facility, his sister Lucy

Sheehan wants to make sure that this situation never happens again to another

patient or family. Western Health has said it is doing a review of this case

but, Mr. Speaker, last December the minister promised that there would be an

operational review of the whole facility.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister: What is the status of that review?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Mr. Speaker, this incident that occurred at Corner Brook

Long-term Care is certainly very tragic and very unfortunate and Western Health

has apologized to the family.

I indicated previously that there were benchmarking reviews going on at

Eastern Health by a company by the name of Health Care Management out of

Toronto. In recent discussions with them it appears that their specialty is not

long-term care. We have had a number of internal reviews that have been ongoing,

Mr. Speaker, and as I think everyone is aware there have been issues out there

with the Corner Brook long-term care. A number of family meetings took place

between July 15 and September 23, Mr. Speaker, and a resident family council was

put together in November 2010. Management changes took place in December 2010

and on March 17 and March 18 an expert on long-term care quality was at the

Corner Brook long-term care. There is an internal review ongoing, Mr. Speaker. I

am waiting for the results of that internal review then we will look at the

operational review.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Mr. Speaker, could the minister give us an idea of how long

that internal review will take?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Mr. Speaker, the matter is ongoing to the best of my

knowledge in discussions with Western Health officials. I do know, Mr. Speaker,

this matter has recently surfaced in the media. It is a very unfortunate and

tragic situation, and I certainly concur with the feelings of the family, Mr.

Speaker, that whatever steps necessary are taken to ensure that this does not

happen to anyone again.

What I will say to the member opposite is that we take this matter very

seriously and we will await the internal review. I will ask to have the matter

sped up, Mr. Speaker, and then we will see where it will go from there.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Last fall, the Department of Health and Community Services held public

consultations about long-term care and home care. The people who spoke at these

sessions had some disturbing stories to tell about their experiences with

long-term care. They talked about the urgent need to fix the system, because

people are suffering. The government does not appear to feel a sense of urgency,

despite what people said at those sessions.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister, after three years and two ministers

promising a long-term care and community support services strategy, when are we

going to see this strategy, and will it have a plan of action to address the

crisis?

He says that he see the urgency. He has said that about the incident we have

just talked about in Corner Brook. I do not see urgency from the minister.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, on numerous occasions we have discussed the long-term care

strategy. We heard from over 500 people this year who attended public sessions,

Mr. Speaker. There were 108 people who presented directly, and forty-three

written submissions.

Mr. Speaker, this government, while we await the finalization of the

strategy, continues to invest in long-term care services. Over $256 million has

been invested in various aspects of long-term care and personal care over the

last period of time. Most importantly, Mr. Speaker, one of the things we are

doing, is working with groups like the Mount Pearl Seniors Independence Group.

Mr. Speaker, recently we provided them with $20,000, out of the first of the

seniors wellness grants, to continue the great work they are doing.

Mr. Speaker, we are doing work with groups like this, to the building of

long-term care facilities, Mr. Speaker, and when the Long-term Care Strategy is

finalized, we will present it. We will continue to do the work that is necessary

to improve the live of residents of this Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The time allotted for questions and answers has expired.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.

Tabling of Documents.

Tabling of Documents

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, pursuant to

section 26.(5)(

a) of the Financial

Administration Act, I am tabling fourteen Orders in Council relating to funding

pre-commitments for the 2011-2012 to the 2013-2014 fiscal year.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Further tabling of documents?

Pursuant to

section 44 of the Citizens' Representative Act, I am pleased to

table a report of the Citizens' Representative entitled, Citizens'

Representative Investigation of Psychiatric Services in Provincial

Correctional Facilities.

Further tabling of documents?

Notices of Motion.

Notices of Motion

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Humber Valley.

MR. KELLY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is indeed an honour and a privilege for me to rise today in this hon.

House and to move the following private member's resolution:

BE IT RESOLVED that this House affirms that the development of the hydropower

potential of Muskrat Falls is vital for the achievement of energy security in

Newfoundland and Labrador and vital for fuelling industrial development and

economic growth in Labrador and on the Island.

This motion, Mr. Speaker, is seconded by the hon. Member for Humber West.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Further notices of motion?

The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will ask leave to

introduce a bill entitled,

An Act To Amend The Revenue Administration Act. (Bill

21)

MR. SPEAKER: Further notices of motion?

The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

MR. SKINNER: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will ask leave to

introduce a bill entitled,

An Act To Amend The Petroleum And Natural Gas Act.

(Bill 15)

MR. SPEAKER: Further notices of motion?

The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I give notice that I will ask leave to introduce a bill entitled,

An Act

Respecting The Practice Of Medicine In The Province. (Bill 22)

MR. SPEAKER: Further notices of motion?

The hon. the Minister of Justice and the Attorney General.

MR. F. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I give notice that I will ask leave to introduce a bill entitled,

An Act To

Amend The Sheriff's Act, 1991. (Bill 11)

I further give notice I will ask leave to introduce a bill entitled,

An Act

To Repeal The Regulatory Reform Act. (Bill 12)

I give notice that I will ask leave to introduce a bill entitled,

An Act To

Repeal The Subordinate Legislation Revision And Consolidation Act. (Bill 13)

I give further notice I will ask leave to introduce a bill entitled,

An Act

To Amend The Proceedings Against The Crown Act. (Bill 14)

I give notice I will ask leave to introduce a bill entitled,

An Act To Amend

The Support Orders Enforcement Act, 2006. (Bill 16)

I give further notice I will ask leave to introduce a bill entitled,

An Act

Respecting The Mandatory Reporting Of Gunshot And Stab Wounds. (Bill 17)

MR. SPEAKER: Further notices of motion?

The hon. the Minister of Government Services.

MR. HARDING: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will ask leave to

introduce a bill entitled,

An Act To Amend The Highway Traffic Act. (Bill 20)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further notices of motion?

The hon. the Minister of Municipal Affairs.

MR. O'BRIEN: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will ask leave to

introduce a bill entitled,

An Act To Amend The Urban And Rural Planning Act,

2000. (Bill 19)

I give further notice that I will ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, An

Act To Amend The Municipalities Act, 1999, No. 2. (Bill 18)

MR. SPEAKER: Further notices of motion?

Answer to Questions for which Notice has been Given.

Petitions.

Petitions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It pleases me to enter a petition again on behalf of the people of La Poile,

as well as those individuals who use the ferry service going to and from La

Poile, the other end of it being, of course, Rose Blanche-Harbour Le Cou and

anybody who visits back and forth, including all tourists who come and visit our

South Coast. The petition says:

WHEREAS the people of La Poile must use the provincial ferry system in order

to travel to and from La Poile; and

WHEREAS the people of La Poile and visitors are required to wait at the Town

of Rose Blanche-Harbour Le Cou from time to time for the ferry services; and

WHEREAS there is no restroom/waiting room area at the Town of Rose

Blanche-Harbour Le Cou where users of the ferry service may utilize washroom

facilities; and

WHEREAS citizens of all ages, including men, women, children, seniors, and

disabled persons, require washroom facilities as a basic human need in the

course of their travels and particularly while awaiting the transit systems; and

WHEREAS it is an abuse of human dignity as well as health and safety

regulations to allow such degrading and dehumanizing circumstances to continue;

WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the

government to immediately construct and operate a waiting room/restroom facility

at the Town of Rose Blanche-Harbour Le Cou, such that all users of the

provincial ferry service which operates out of La Poile may be able to utilize

such waiting room/washroom facilities.

As in duty bound your petitioners will ever pray.

Mr. Speaker, we went through, a couple of years ago, seventy-two petitions in

this House when the former Member for Lake Melville was the former Minister of

Transportation. It got to be so embarrassing to the government of the day that

they finally relented and put a washroom where their ferry service runs. Now,

that is not too much to ask.

I do not know if anybody up in Change Islands has that problem, I do not know

if anybody who goes to Bell Island has that problem if they need to use a

washroom, or if anywhere has that problem where when you are waiting for a

provincial ferry you do not have a washroom to use. I would suggest the Rose

Blanche, La Poile service is probably the only one left.

I call upon the Minister of Transportation and Works; I implore him, for

God's sake, not only for the residents who use this service every day of their

lives, but the tourists who come there. It is pretty bad when someone comes to

visit, they are down waiting for the ferry and they have to run back to John's

house, or Jack's house, or someone else's house because they need to use the

washroom while they are waiting for the ferry. There is absolutely no need of

it, and hopefully this government will again come to its senses. I brought this

to their attention earlier. They did come through and put the money down there

for the Ramea-Burgeo one and the people of Grey River, but hopefully they will

see how this is demeaning, dehumanizing again; in fact, contrary to the laws. I

would think if you are going to provide a service you do not just put the

facilities on the boat, you also make the facilities available to anybody who

uses the boat, and on the end of the wharf, or nearby, is a pretty good place to

put it.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The Chair just wants to address the situation again with

petitions. While the Chair did not interrupt the hon. member in presenting his

petition, because it is obviously an important concern to the people that he

represents, but there has been a ruling made here in the past that all

petitions, before presented here to the House, must be vetted through the

Clerk's table and prayer of the petition read.

The hon. Opposition House Leader certainly read the prayer of the petition.

This is the second petition, one delivered on Thursday, one delivered here

today, and my understanding is neither one of them has been vetted through the

Clerk's table. I ask hon. members for their co-operation in the future, all hon.

members.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Opposition House Leader, on a point of order; or a point of

clarification, explanation.

The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: A point of clarification, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, you are absolutely correct. The petition that I entered on

Thursday was not vetted by the Table. It was entered. In fact, the Clerk of the

House and myself had a brief conversation after. In fact, one of the words in it

was inappropriate he advised me; but, any petition that I deliver after that,

they are all one and the same. There are no changes whatsoever other than the

signature changes. So is it necessary, under those circumstances, to still have

it vetted, because the prayer has certainly not changed?

MR. SPEAKER: Absolutely, I say to the hon. member. If the petition is

going to be presented on the floor of the House - because the Chair has no way

of knowing whether it is the same petition or not, and it is something that we

all have agreed to, and I ask all hon. members for their co-operation.

Further petitions?

Orders of the Day.

Orders of the Day

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MS BURKE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the hon. the Minister of Justice, to ask

leave to introduce a bill entitled,

An Act Respecting Correctional Services,

Bill 9, and I further move that the said bill be now read a first time.

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the hon. the Minister of

Justice and Attorney General shall have leave to introduce a bill entitled, An

Act Respecting Correctional Services, Bill 9, and that Bill 9 be now read a

first time.

Is it the pleasure of the House that Bill 9 be now read a first time?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

The motion is carried.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General to introduce a

bill, "An Act Respecting Correctional Services", carried. (Bill 9)

CLERK: A bill,

An Act Respecting Correctional Services. (Bill 9)

MR. SPEAKER: Bill 9 has now been read a first time.

When shall Bill 9 be read a second time?

MS BURKE: On tomorrow, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Tomorrow.

On motion, Bill 9 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the hon. the Minister of Human

Resources, Labour and Employment, to ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, An

Act To Amend The Labour Relations Act, Bill 10, and I further move that the said

bill be now read a first time.

MR. SPEAKER: It is properly moved and seconded that the hon. the

Government House Leader shall have leave to introduce a bill entitled,

An Act To

Amend The Labour Relations Act, Bill 10, and that Bill 10 be now read a first

time.

Is it the pleasure of the House that this bill be now read a first time?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

The motion is carried.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and Employment to

introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The Labour Relations Act", carried. (Bill 10)

CLERK: A bill,

An Act To Amend The Labour Relations Act. (Bill 10)

MR. SPEAKER: Bill 10 has now been read a first time.

When shall Bill 10 be read a second time?

MS BURKE: On tomorrow, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Tomorrow.

On motion, Bill 10 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I would like to call from the Order Paper, Order

3, second reading of a bill,

An Act To Amend The Public Accountants Act. (Bill

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that Bill 4,

An Act To Amend The

Public Accountants Act, be now read a second time.

The hon. the Minister of Government Services.

MR. HARDING: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of

Intergovernmental Affairs and the Minister Responsible for the Volunteer and

Non-Profit Sector,

An Act To Amend The Public Accountants Act, 2009 be now read

a second time.

Motion, second reading of a bill, "An Act To Amend The Public Accountants

Act". (Bill 4)

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.

MR. HARDING: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

It is my privilege today to begin second reading on Bill 4,

An Act To Amend

The Public Accountants Act, 2009. This is a bill that some may remember was

brought forward last fall during the sitting of the Legislature; however, due to

time constraints it just dropped on the Order Paper. Today, now we are bringing

it forward again, the first opportunity that we had in the spring sitting of our

Legislature.

Basically, Mr. Speaker, what the amendment does is that we are removing

responsibilities for complaints and discipline with respect to public accounting

in the Province. We are removing that from the Public Accountants Licensing

Board and we are passing it on to the individual accountant bodies in the

Province.

Mr. Speaker, this legislation is similar to other legislation that we already

have in the Province now with respect to professional boards. I could mention

the engineers, the geoscientists, the architects, embalmers and funeral

directors who come under the purview of the Department of Government Services.

What we are doing is bringing the regulations now with respect to public

accounting in line with the legislation from these other bodies.

The main intent of our legislation, Mr. Speaker, is to ensure public

protection for the consumers in this Province who, from time to time, have to

use the services of public accounting bodies. This act requires that every

public accountant in the Province must also be a chartered accountant, a

certified general accountant, or a certified management accountant. We also

have, Mr. Speaker, two registered public accountants in the Province and these

two were grandparented in quite a number of years. I understand that one of them

dates back to 1967 when he began practising in public accounting in our

Province.

Currently, Mr. Speaker, under the legislation the responsibility for

complaints and discipline related to the practice of public accounting in the

Province rests with the Public Accountants Licensing Board. We have determined,

Mr. Speaker, that this is not really necessary now and that is the reason for

the change and the amendment to the legislation. These processes, I understand,

can cost a considerable amount of money, and all the licensing board would have

to do would be to go back to the different respective bodies and collect more

money from these groups. Mr. Speaker, I understand also that some of these

discipline practices can cost up to $100,000 a year. That is money that the

board itself does not currently have.

Mr. Speaker, I would also like to say that the Public Accountants Licensing

Board that has been administering this up until now has asked for this change,

and certainly government agrees with the option that they have presented. Also,

Mr. Speaker, our department has consulted with all of the regulatory bodies that

are responsible for the chartered accountants, for the certified management

accountants, and the certified general accountants. They are all in agreement,

Mr. Speaker, with the amendment to this motion. The individual accounting

bodies, like I said before, have the funding themselves and the expertise to

conduct disciplinary procedures with their respective bodies, and if they did

not, in the event that they did not have the funding, they have been told that

they can call on the national association and they would provide them with any

funding that they require.

So, Mr. Speaker, these amendments, as I said, will remove provisions related

to complaints and discipline from the Public Accountants Act, 2009, and will

vest responsibility for the disciplinary procedures within the Chartered

Accountants Act, the Certified Management Accountants Act, and the Certified

General Accountants Act in relation to public accounting practices in this

Province.

So, Mr. Speaker, on that, I will take my seat and provide opportunity for

other members to comment on this amendment to the Public Accountants Act.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

It is a pleasure to be able to stand today and make a few comments with

regard to Bill 4,

An Act To Amend The Public Accountants Act.

I think the minister has already stated very clearly that the amendment that

is taking place here with Bill 4 is more or less just clarifying and bringing

this piece of legislation in line with several other pieces of legislation that

was brought forward in previous sessions. He referenced - and I remember those

from the former minister - the professional engineers, the geoscientists, and so

on.

I guess the key to it all, Mr. Speaker, is what is happening here, it is

two-fold. Number one and I have to say, we will be supporting this piece of

legislation, the amendments, because the minister has outlined the reasons why

we would do that, because this is mainly due and in support of public

protection. Mr. Speaker, we also agree with it for the very simple reason

because the licensing board has asked for this change and all the regulatory

bodies that the minister has mentioned are in total agreement. As he said, it

was a very costly process. Some cases, he mentioned, could go as high as

$100,000.

Mr. Speaker, we know that in this Province, maybe there have been cases in

the past, but from just general knowledge we know that most of the accountants

in this Province are very credible individuals; but that does not take away from

this piece of legislation being brought forward because it keeps each and every

individual, regardless of what profession you may be in, it keeps them

accountable and it also gives a means to deal with any allegation that may be

brought forward. As I said previously, the Department of Government Services has

made several amendments and changes to quite a few pieces of legislation in most

recent times.

Mr. Speaker, another thing that we have learned in the past with changes that

are brought forward, not only to legislation from the Department of Government

Services but various departments, it is brought forward many times to bring it

in line with other jurisdictions throughout our country. We know, from

travelling from time to time to attend the Public Accounts Committees in other

provinces, we see all too often how important it is to have legislation in line

with the legislation of another province. Many times there are incidents that

take place and the individual might move from one province to the other and to

be dealt with properly, the legislation has to be in line with that put forward

in our own Province.

Mr. Speaker, Bill 4, amending the Public Accountants Act, currently any type

of accountant who practices public accounting is subject to discipline under the

Public Accountants Act. This bill will make accountants licensed to practice

public accounting under the Public Accountants Act subject to disciplinary

proceedings under the Chartered Accountants Act, 2008, the Certified General

Accountants Act, 2008, and the Certified Management Accountants Act in matters

that affect public accountancy.

The purpose of the bill is to make those who practice public accounting

subject to discipline rules under their own specific acts instead of through the

Public Accountants Act.

The newly inserted sections 25, 26, and 27 outline that accountants who are

members of the certified general accountants, the certified management

accountants of Newfoundland and Labrador and the members of the Institute of

Chartered Accountants of Newfoundland and Labrador will then practice public

accounting, be subject to the disciplinary measures under the Certified General

Accountants Act, and the other acts that each of them now have to on their own

accord.

Mr. Speaker, it also goes on to say under discipline measures, under

section

27, the Certified General Accountants Act is amended such that the registrar and

the complaints authorization committee has the power, with respect to an

allegation as the disciplinary panel under

section 25 of the Public Accountants

Act. I think that is very important.

When we come to the Public Accountants Act where it reads as follows, "Effect

of filing allegation", we know from time to time hopefully the lesser of that

I guess, we do not want to hear any complaints that have to be brought

forward. Those allegations are brought forward and there is a means where they

can be dealt with and dealt with appropriately.

I believe, and the minister probably can correct me on this when he stands to

close debate, I do not think the Public Accountants Act itself has been

proclaimed as we speak. Now, I could be corrected on that.

Mr. Speaker, we also know that this piece of legislation, when we talk about

an allegation, more or less means a written document that is brought forward and

it has to do with a complaint. A complainant is someone who has an issue, and

there can be several reasons for that as outlined: it could be "professional

misconduct," it could be "incompetence," "conduct unbecoming of a public

accountant," "incapacity or unfitness to practise as a public accountant". As I

stated in the beginning, I do not think we hear too much about any of that in

this Province. Still, so that the people of this Province are protected, that is

a good reason why this should be brought forward.

I know there is nothing in this piece of legislation like most of the pieces

we have seen in the past where any action taken or penalties imposed would be

within each individual act and not listed in this piece of legislation.

The only thing I would like to say, Mr. Speaker, and I would like the

minister to clarify this a little when he is closing, is under

section 27(1) and

25(1) where it states, and it lists the same thing under all three: "At least

one of the certified management accountants appointed by the board under

subsection (4) shall be licensed as a public accountant under the Public

Accountants Act ." It lists all three for the Certified Management

Accountants Act, the Chartered Accountants Act, and the Certified General

Accountants Act.

I am wondering: Those individuals, where they speak about at least one

person, are those the people who will serve on a panel if there is any

disciplinary action? I was wondering if the minister could explain that in his

closing comment.

Mr. Speaker, it also states in this piece of legislation that this act comes

into force on the day that the Public Accountants Act comes into force. I will

just say this in conclusion: This piece of legislation, as well as others from

that department numerous pieces have been debated here in this hon. House

and I think the key to it all, that the residents of our Province have been very

aware of, is that once a piece of legislation comes in and the parties involved

with that piece of legislation are in total agreement, the general public has to

be very knowledgeable that this is being done for their protection. To see that

their rights are taken out, if something should go wrong, that there is

legislation within our Province, that their rights can be protected.

Mr. Speaker, with that I just want to thank you for the opportunity.

Hopefully the minister will be able to clarify that question when he closes

debate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER (T. Osborne): The hon. the Member for the District of St.

John's East.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. BUCKINGHAM: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is a pleasure to get up today and to speak to this act. One of the

problems with following the minister and then the Member for Port de Grave, who

outlined a lot of the germane points on this act, is that there is not a lot of

meat left on the bones to go through. I do not want to repeat a lot of what was

said, but I do have some things that I feel will add to the conversation.

As was outlined, and perhaps alluded to by a number of people, there are a

number of groups that do regulate themselves. As part of the regulation process,

they also institute disciplinary processes which have, to my mind, a number of

very valuable functions. This particular piece of legislation here is part of a

suite of consumer protection legislation that is administered by the Department

of Government Services. As has been mentioned previously, this is mostly a tweak

in the legislation to respond to the concerns of the different organizations

involved. To my mind, when groups such as these bring forward perfectly adequate

processes that maintain the type of consumer protection that was initially

envisaged in the original legislation, in the white paper that drove that

initial legislation, then it is always a good thing.

I agree with the Member for Port de Grave that the public does have to keep

themselves informed. Consumer protection is there for your protection. If you

are not aware of it, there is really very little that the government can do,

short of going out and trying to handhold everyone every time they make a

transaction. People do need to be aware of the different goods and services that

they undertake to purchase and that there are certain standards that go along

with it.

To my mind, it is not only a positive thing for the government to have

legislation like this and also for the individual organizations to undertake

these disciplinary measures. The question might be why do they go and do this?

It seems to me that there are a number of things that you can work on, one of

course being that having the disciplinary panel in place first of all ensures

that there is a consistent, logical set of rules that everyone in that group is

expected to follow. That set of rules are to be adhered to and there are

definite consequences for not doing it.

Now, as consumers or anyone who reads the news or listens to the news, we all

know that there are incidents of groups that take advantage of consumers not

necessarily being aware of what their rights and privileges are and it really

cuts across all occupations, all professions. We see things in education, we see

things in the medical field, we see things in the legal field, and we see things

in the accounting field. There is really no shortage of places where we can put

our money and yet at the same time we need to know that these people are perhaps

looking out for our best interests.

I think when you have a disciplinary process in place, it gives to the

general public a certain amount of confidence that there are remedies if there

is a situation where you feel like you have been hard done by, if you have not

gotten the services that you have contracted for on a very honest, above-board

manner, there is a mechanism whereby you can get a remedy. You can either get

compensation in terms of the service, compensation in terms of the money paid.

You can perhaps have this individual, particularly if they have a bit of a

history of going down this road, perhaps, taken out of that particular

profession. It is to the profession's best interest to have that mechanism

because it allows them to maintain the integrity and the trustworthiness that

most members, if not all members, will spend considerable time and effort trying

to build in their own particular profession. The disciplinary process is one

that is very necessary, it would certainly be one that you would hope does not

have to be used, but nonetheless it is there.

As we break this down and we ask why are we going to take these three groups

and take them out of a general piece of legislation and let them administer

their own; they are in many ways distinct groups that rely on particular

technical areas, particular areas that they do particularly well, areas that

differentiate themselves between each other. While it might seem to be okay to

have sort of this global act that all groups will fall under, the trouble with

global acts is that sometimes you lose the technical part of it that the groups

really rely on to differentiate themselves. I think this is a good idea

particularly now that these groups have come forward and said here is how we

would like this to happen, here is how we would like to police ourselves. As

long as it does provide good, if not increased consumer protection then this is

a good piece of legislation to put forward.

Mr. Speaker, I finished my business degree in 1982, and at that time a number

of my classmates went through and did accounting. It has been very interesting

to watch the role of CAs, CMAs, and CGAs evolve over the years. We used to just

use the general term bookies, which was sort of a pejorative that they were

going out, getting all of this education just to be glorified bookkeepers, even

though we knew it was way more than that, what they were going to do when they

left.

It is very interesting to see the role of the CA, CGA, and CMA in the

business community as they go into a lot of different areas rather than just

record keeping and reporting. Oftentimes, you will see them play a very key role

in the functions of planning, financing, taxation, and operations. Because of

that, oftentimes you will see many of the CAs who have been with large CA firms

going out into the private sector and taking on very high-level responsibilities

within private organizations; in many cases, clients that they have had while

they have been CAs. Because of the way that CAs, CMAs, and CGAs have evolved,

they have a more global perspective that allows them to help deal with the

business of doing business in a much better and a much broader way.

Mr. Speaker, with that, I will finish off. Certainly, my compliments to all

of the parties involved for coming to this place where we have a piece of

legislation that protects consumers' interests, and yet, meets the needs of the

organizations involved.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I am glad to have a bit of time to speak to this bill, Bill 4,

An Act To

Amend The Public Accountants Act.

Obviously, it is a bill that in and of itself is not totally substantial. It

is a strictly housekeeping bill but one that is very, very necessary. Sometimes

we use the term housekeeping as if it is something unimportant, but we all know

that if we do not keep our house bad things can happen. It is the same way when

it comes to legislation. There are things that we always need to be on top of to

make sure that legislation is covering all the issues that need to be covered.

In this particular bill, it provides that chartered accountants, certified

general accountants, and certified management accountants licensed to perform

public accountancy under the Public Accountants Act would now be subject to

disciplinary proceedings to misconduct arising from the practice of public

accountancy under their own act. Instead of being disciplined under the Public

Accountants Act, as they currently are, these three groups of people would now

be, if necessary, disciplined under the Chartered Accountants Act, 2008, the

Certified General Accountants Act, 2008, and the Certified Management

Accountants Act, respectively. It makes all the sense in the world that they

would be disciplined under their own acts, especially since those acts have been

so framed that the associations are accountable to us. Through legislation, they

are accountable for everything that they do. Their process of discipline is an

accountable process in legislation. It just makes all the sense in the world

then that these three groups of people should be held accountable under their

own act.

We have to have a heightened level of professionalism. People deal with

accountants, chartered accountants and certified general accountants sometimes

in very trying moments in their lives and they need to have a sense of security

in dealing with these people. They need to have a sense that they are safe in

dealing with these people, and that if, for some reason, they ever were treated

in a criminal fashion by these people or treated unjustly, that they can be

assured they can go to the professional organization of these people and the

individuals who may have acted accordingly would have correct discipline

proceedings brought against them. It is both for the good of the community, the

good of our society, as well as for the good of the individual chartered

accountants and CGAs as well, because they too have to be protected. It is quite

possible they could be charged wrongly by somebody, so it is very important that

they too have protection.

What we have here in Bill 4 brings protection for everybody. It is essential

that we have a healthy economy and business climate, and part of that is being

sure that people can rely on financial professionals. Financial professionals do

carry a lot of weight. They carry a lot of power, and allowing these

professional organizations the power to maintain their own professional

standards is a good thing. Number one, it gives them a sense of professionalism

themselves when they can control their own situations and their own standards.

We give them that right through legislation but, as I said, they also, through

that very legislation, are accountable for carrying out those rights.

Giving professional organizations the power to investigate and act on

allegations of professional misconduct by members also bolsters the public

confidence, because the public knows that the organizations have everything that

they need in order to investigate with regard to misconduct. Of course, if ever

in judging allegations of misconduct an organization were to find that somebody

was actually involved in a criminal activity then, of course, it would have to

move outside the hands of the professional group.

Mr. Speaker, it is good for us that we are doing the little bit of

housekeeping we are doing here today in passing Bill 4. I am sure the public

will be very happy to know that there is more protection for them when it comes

to their dealings with financial professionals. The financial professionals will

know that they too are protected and if they are going to judged, if allegations

are brought against them, it is their own peers with the highest level of

professionalism who will be investigating those allegations.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services, if he speaks

now he shall close debate.

The hon. the Minister of Government Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HARDING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

First of all, I would like to thank my colleagues for their comments and

co-operation with this particular piece of legislation.

I would like to, first of all, address a couple of points that were raised by

my colleague from the District of Port de Grave. He is correct in saying that

the Public Accountants Act, 2009, was not proclaimed. It was not proclaimed

because there were several issues that had to be addressed further. The one with

respect to discipline is the one that brought us to the point where we are

today.

The other point that he raised, Mr. Speaker, I would like to say that in the

Province of the three bodies of accounting practices, in the chartered

accountants group there are currently 174 members, certified general accountants

there are thirty-nine, and the certified management accountants there are four.

In addition to that, there is also what is classed as two registered public

accountants who were grand-parented in many years ago. The point he raised was

that in order to be a public accountant one must also have to be a chartered

accountant, a certified management accountant or a certified general accountant.

Mr. Speaker, I also make reference to the point made by my colleague from

Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi. She is certainly right when she says that this

legislation is all about public protection for the consumers in the Province who

have to deal with accountants from time to time in the course of their lifetime.

Also, it ensures, as she said, accountability on the part of the conduct of

members in the accountancy business in this Province.

Mr. Speaker, this piece of legislation, as we have all pointed out now, will

give the CAs, the CMAs and the CGAs responsibility for discipline within their

particular group; also, that is in relation to public accounting in the

Province. The discipline process now will be in line with that in other

self-regulatory occupations throughout the Province. These amendments will, as

well, bring the regulations now in line with other jurisdictions throughout our

country.

On that, Mr. Speaker, I would like to conclude debate on Bill 4,

An Act To

Amend The Public Accountants Act, 2009.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, we will refer it to the Committee tomorrow, I

guess.

With that, we will now call Bill 6, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: My apologies to the hon. the Government House Leader; I

neglected to call for a vote on second reading of the bill.

Is it the pleasure of the House that the bill be read a second time?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

CLERK: A bill,

An Act To Amend The Public Accountants Act. (Bill 4)

MR. SPEAKER: This bill has now been read a second time.

On motion, a bill, "An Act To Amend The Public Accountants Act", read a

second time, ordered referred to a Committee of the Whole House on tomorrow.

(Bill 4)

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MS BURKE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As I had just previously said, we will refer it to the Committee of the Whole

tomorrow.

With that, Mr. Speaker, I would like to call from the Order Paper, Order 5,

Bill 6.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I am ever so pleased to stand in this

House.

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and

Employment, that Bill 6,

An Act To Amend The Standard Time Act, be now read a

second time.

MR. SPEAKER: It has been moved and seconded by the hon. the Minister of

Municipal Affairs that the said bill be read a second time.

Motion, second reading of a bill, "An Act To Amend The Standard Time Act".

(Bill 6)

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal Affairs.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to stand in this House;

it is a pleasure to stand at any time in this House in regard to any of the

things that we, as MHAs or ministers, might address for the people of

Newfoundland and Labrador.

This is an amendment that came to my attention shortly after I became the

Minister of Municipal Affairs. It is an amendment that I have taken some ribbing

over and that kind of stuff in regard to an amendment to the Standard Time Act

because we have had amendments in the past that have been reversed in future

governments. This act here may not seem to be anything earth-shattering, but it

is

an act that actually addresses an issue in Newfoundland and Labrador in that

we are very unique in regard to the Standard Time Act as compared to North

America and elsewhere in the world.

Right now, Mr. Speaker, in regard to daylight saving time, we adjust our

clocks at 12:01 a.m. Mostly, in any other countries, North America, and states

in the US that adhere to daylight saving time, they adjust their clock at 2:00

a.m. What happens is when you adjust your clock at 12:01 a.m., the first Sunday,

I believe, in November is when it goes back, you are into the same day twice. In

other words, when you adjust it one hour backward at the first Sunday in

November, you actually fall back to 11:01 p.m. in the day previous. So in other

words, you are in the day twice in one year.

This is nothing in regard to us as citizens. It does not mean a lot. If your

time goes back, you have extra time for sleep, and you get an hour to do

whatever you want to do in regard to entertainment, or such things as that.

Where it comes into play is in regard to Microsoft and other companies that

develop software in that they have to develop patches to compensate for that

particular time change, particularly in Newfoundland and Labrador. This does not

affect your own computer, your home computers, because it is not really

significant. It does affect companies that collect data, incoming data in regard

to anything that they might be doing inside their company. Companies in

Newfoundland and Labrador such as Hydro, Newfoundland Power, Bell Aliant, or any

of those types of companies might have issues with regard to those items.

When you look at it, when it drops back to 11:01 p.m., it seems that you

collected the data on a Saturday instead of a Sunday on the incoming data. So,

Microsoft, or whichever company they deal with, have to write a patch which

takes some time to actually correct that data and the stamping of that time in

regard to that piece of work. It might seem insignificant to people, the regular

citizen, but it does create a problem within the companies that this affects.

I had a hard time, actually, understanding. As a matter of fact, when the

request came in from a particular person, via e-mail, I read the e-mail, it

caught my eye and then I started to do a little bit of research before I brought

it forward to my officials. At first, they thought it was a little bit of

significant as well because we have been turning back our clocks or putting them

ahead at the 12:01 a.m. It is really not significant at all in regard to the

spring daylight savings time issue in the second Sunday in March, I believe,

because it is going forward, it is still in the same day. It only constitutes a

problem in regard to the software packages when it goes back.

As I said before, there is a process that the companies have to go through.

Microsoft, or whoever it may be, would have to write a patch. They send a patch

to a particular company. They download that patch into their system which

corrects any of the data that had been collecting during that particular time

frame. We only have a few companies that it would affect. Certainly, in order to

address that problem for those particular companies, then I think this is a

worthwhile amendment to the act. It does not, as I said before, affect anything

to do with the ordinary citizens of Newfoundland and Labrador. It does not give

them any hardship or any issues that might arise in regard to their own personal

computers or their own daily lives, because all we are doing is moving the time

frame for the adjustment of the clock for daylight savings time from 12:01 a.m.

to 2:00 a.m.

As I said, this is a standard right throughout North America, right

throughout Canada. We are the only Province that adjusts its time at 12:01, as

compared to 2:00 o'clock anywhere else in the country. This is actually a

harmonization piece of legislation, Mr. Speaker, because then that puts us in

sync with the rest of North America, the rest of Canada, and also the rest of

the world. I also want to make sure that the people out there understand that

clocks will continue to change on the first Sunday in November, and on the

second Sunday in March. The only thing that changes now is that the time changes

at 2:00 o'clock, as compared to 12:01.

Mr. Speaker, I do not think there is a whole lot to say on this, other than I

think it is a worthwhile amendment, in particular for the companies that it

affects. We have to give notice to the software companies. They have to make an

adjustment in their systems as well to accommodate Newfoundland and Labrador in

regard to their updates. They will no longer have to write those particular

patches. When the time comes next November, hopefully they will have everything

in place.

With that, Mr. Speaker, I will take my seat in the House, and I welcome any

comments by my hon. colleagues on the opposite side.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of The Straits & White

Bay North.

MR. DEAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is a privilege and an honour to be able to stand and speak for a few

moments on Bill 6, as the minister just said,

An Act To Amend The Standard Time

Act.

I certainly can understand the minister being revved over bringing this one

forward as one of his first pieces of legislation after going into the

department, but then some things are necessary, simply for reasons that may not

seem all that important to us but they are necessary to be done. I guess that is

basically where this amendment falls. It proposes to change the time when the

clocks change twice a year to a 2:00 a.m. time slot instead of a 12:00 a.m. time

slot. Under the current legislation, at one minute past midnight on Sunday in

the fall the clock changes back to Saturday at 11:00 p.m., and in the spring,

they spring ahead to 1:00 a.m. I guess the 1:00 a.m. spring is not as

complicated, necessarily, as what the 11:00 p.m. fallback could be for certain

businesses and so on, as the minister mentioned a moment ago.

In most jurisdictions in North America, the change takes place at 2:00 a.m.

instead of at midnight. It is kind of unnoticed by most people because more than

likely at that point they are asleep, except for those who are working. By 2:00

a.m. most people will have retired for the night so they really do not notice

the change. When it is at 12:00 a.m. there is still a lot of activity on the go

typically, and going from 12:00 back to 11:00 o'clock certainly can be, I

suppose, somewhat more of an inconvenience, if you will, if nothing else at that

point in time.

Newfoundland has been the outliers with respect to this practice in that

case. We really are the only ones who have that 12:00 a.m. change instead of the

2:00 a.m. The question we could ask ourselves is why does it matter, or does it

matter, or why is it important? The intent here in terms of changing in this

Province is to really form a good practice of consistency with other

jurisdictions. If everyone else in North America that we do business with in

particular, that we communicate with, and that we

schedule our times with, if

they all change at 2:00 a.m. rather than 12:00 a.m. then it would seem to make

good sense that we would do the same thing.

We would also hope there is a potential that businesses that are more

impacted by this change than what you or I might be as residents, might be able

to realize some cost savings and some efficiencies in doing this time of 2:00

a.m. rather than the 12:00 a.m. process. The amendment will also address what is

referred to as the cross-date threshold which takes place in the fall when the

clocks go back from Saturday to Sunday and then back to Saturday.

The minister mentioned, and gave a couple of examples within our own

Province, of businesses that very well could have problems doing that in terms

of their computers and date-stamping. It is almost like it is being

electronically filed twice. You have arrived at 12:00 midnight on Saturday, and

then suddenly you go back an hour and then you arrive at 12:00 a.m. again. From

a tracking and a computerization point of view, and the whole dating process

that is involved with that, certainly it is easy to understand where there can

be inconveniences, extra expenses and just really things that would cause you to

need to track that properly and to track it further than if it was going through

at 2:00 a.m. Then, of course, the time is only reverting to 1:00 a.m. compared

to 11:00 p.m. in the other case. He mentions as well the fact that some

computers and other electronic equipment would necessitate what they call

special patches to be able to accommodate that process, so that it can be

allocated for in that hour that is lost between one day going back to the other

day and back to the next day again.

Apparently, government was tweaked to this problem by an e-mail - I believe

the minister mentioned that as well - that came in from some tech industry which

pointed out that we are the only jurisdiction that changes at midnight rather

than at the 2:00 a.m. hour. I guess it is what we would call a dry piece of

legislation in the fact that it is basically just having good governance

practices across our Province the same as would be across the rest of North

America and so on. This is something that needs to be changed but there is

nothing earth-shattering about it. It is not a game changer as we might call it,

Mr. Speaker, by no changes at all.

There does not appear to be any negative things about doing this. Of course,

it is important even though legislative changes at times might seem very minor

but you want to ask yourself, what is negatively impacted by making this change?

Quite frankly, Mr. Speaker, there really does not seem to be anything negative

about changing it from 12:00 a.m. to 2:00 a.m. Of course, that is important for

us to understand.

The Newfoundland time zone, as we know it and I do not know how many people

would know this is a very unique time zone, of course. I thought about this in

doing some of the research and so on just to respond to this piece of

legislation here this afternoon. Officially, the entire Province is in the

Newfoundland time zone. I did not know that, to be honest. I know that most of

Labrador follows the Atlantic Time Zone. It would just be the Island portion and

the offshore islands in the South-Eastern Labrador communities south of Black

Tickle, I believe, that follow the Newfoundland time zone. Actually, the entire

Province is in that zone, yet they choose to follow a different time zone. So

that is interesting to know.

Where that tradition or that way of changing times came about I would not be

sure, but it is interesting to know that the whole Province is in the

Newfoundland time zone and yet it is split up through Labrador in terms of the

time zone that they actually follow. It is also interesting to note there are

places that do not change their time and they do not take advantage of the

daylight savings time in the summertime and so on. It is also interesting to

note that Newfoundland and Labrador was a separate dominion when the time zones

were established. It was for this reason it seems, that we get our time zone

compared to the other ones.

The unique thing that is important about this, the uniqueness of this time

zone, is the fact that it is really an attention gathering time zone, if you

will. For example, when we look at the year 2000 celebrations and the millennium

change, we know that we were the first ones in North America to celebrate the

new millennium. That is pretty significant. So having our time zone as we do

allows us to be the first to experience and to enjoy things like that, in terms

of every year when celebrations come and so on.

It is interesting to note that back in 1988, you will recall, I am sure, that

the government of the day decided that we would try double daylight savings time

in the summer that year. Of course, it was great for those of us who liked to be

up late in the evenings and so on. It was 11 and 12 o'clock at night in certain

parts of the Province and it still was daylight; it was not darkening at all.

The issue became in the mornings in the fall when the schools opened and

children began to go back to school and suddenly young children were having to

be put on the roadside and in bus shelters and so on waiting for their buses in

the dark. So it proved to be not such a popular thing from that perspective, and

it was changed back to the one hour. I guess it really became a dead issue and

something that we might not ever see again.

So, I do not think this new amendment will create any types of controversy in

terms of that. It also will not affect those who go to bed at 11 o'clock or

whatever the case might be. Those out in the wee hours of the morning, they

might notice it, but other than that, that is about all that you can see.

In conclusion, the Standard Time Act states that time in Newfoundland and

Labrador is three and a half hours after Greenwich Time. It also covers daylight

saving time in the period of March to November, which reduces that time frame to

two and a half hours, and this new amendment basically says that the magical

switching time, as the minister suggested, will be at 2:00 a.m. So, again, no

objection to that, of course, and I will enjoy it. Hopefully I will be enjoying

my nap, as most of us will be doing when the time changes and we will not even

know that it happened.

So, thank you, Mr. Speaker for the time this afternoon to be able to speak to

this amendment.

MR. SPEAKER (Kelly): The Chair recognizes the hon. Member for St. John's

South and Deputy Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am not going to belabour the point, because it is a relatively benign piece

of legislation, but it is an important piece, and some of the viewers who are

looking at the proceedings this afternoon on television may be wondering why we

are debating changing the time. As the minister pointed out when he introduced

the legislation, it is not so much about changing the Standard Time, it is to

bring us in line with the rest of North America.

Currently, our time, when it rolls back from 12:01 to 11:01, not only changes

the time back an hour, but it changes the date. So we go from one date back on

the calendar, and then move forward again. For companies that are supplying

software and technology to this Province, it creates an added burden on them,

and perhaps additional cost to companies and industry that are purchasing the

software or machinery that have to deal with daylight saving time changes. It

will affect that.

I, for one, appreciate the fact that we have a half-hour time zone for

Newfoundland and Labrador, and I certainly would not approve any changes to that

because we are one of three jurisdictions in the world that has that uniqueness,

and I respect that. It does make us somewhat unique. It allows our uniqueness of

culture and for who we are as a people to stand out. This particular piece of

legislation will create efficiencies in software and technology for the

companies that supply software and technology to this Province.

The previous member who spoke just before me said he would probably be

enjoying his nap. We are probably all at that age now but I do recall years ago,

in the Breezeway, cause for great celebration when the clock back from 12:01 to

11:01. Many of us who went to university would probably recall that cause for

celebration.

The time change here is not a complicated piece of legislation; many would

find it amusing that we are debating this in the House, but it is very much a

required piece of legislation and I will be supporting the legislation for that

purpose.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for Signal

Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I just want to go on record with regard to Bill 6, and to say I am supporting

it. It is has been spoken to, both by the minister and two of my colleagues in

the House. It is a straightforward, I think, piece of legislation. It is one

thing to have different time zones, which we have, and ours being very

particular, having a half-hour difference. It is another thing in today's world

of technology where we are all connected around the world to have people not

being together in one country with regard to when we start daylight saving time,

because that is totally separate from the different time zones and has been

explained by my colleagues. I am sure people listening have heard them, that it

is something that is necessary for business and for good order. It has become

really necessary, I think, as I have just alluded to, in this day and age where

we are so much now connected right around the world connected globally, that

something like this where the whole computerization of our lives is such a

factor. It is very important that synchronization happen and that is what this

is all about, making sure that we are synchronized as we use things like the

daylight saving time method. It is a logical piece of legislation and of course

I support it.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for Lewisporte.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. VERGE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I, too, am going to join with my colleagues here in the House of Assembly

this afternoon and speak just for a few minutes on this important bill. As other

people have said, it is a straightforward bill. It is something that is easy to

understand, and it is easy to see the logic as to why we would need to bring it

in right now. It is also a very important bill.

Most countries in the world use 1:00 a.m., 2:00 a.m., or 3:00 a.m. as their

reference point when they want to make changes to daylight saving time. Every

other province in Canada that implements daylight saving time, they do it at

2:00 a.m. Of course, here in this Province, we have been changing the clocks at

12:01 a.m. When you look at what happens across the country and Newfoundland

and Labrador being the only Province that would change the clocks differently

you can see where maybe there is not only a little problem with the computers as

the minister has alluded to and has talked about the fact that there are some

software changes that have to be made because when you change at 12:01 a.m. back

to 11:01 p.m., you are not just changing the hour, you are actually changing the

date as well.

I can also probably anticipate and see where there have been difficulties

with scheduling, particularly with airline flights, for example. You can imagine

if we were changing our clocks an hour earlier or two hours earlier than the

other provinces, then that would cause a scheduling conflict and probably not

something that they did not get past but something that certainly had to be

considered when airlines were doing their long-term planning for flights.

What this adjustment does is it standardizes this Province and makes us come

along with the rest of the provinces in Canada and we are all on the same page

kind of thing. It does not change the date, does not change the time of the year

when it happens, it just changes the hour in which we actually do our daylight

savings time.

Mr. Speaker, there is not a lot to say about this piece of legislation other

than that. It is going to bring our Province in line with the rest of the

provinces in Canada. Clocks will still continue to change on the first Sunday in

November and the second Sunday in March just like they always have, but it will

us now on the same page as the rest of Canada.

My colleagues have all spoken in agreement with this bill. There is a lot

that has been said, a lot has been covered, so I will not belabour it any more

than that.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak on this bill, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: If the hon. Minister of Municipal Affairs speaks now, he

will close the debate.

The hon. the Minister of Municipal Affairs.

MR. O'BRIEN: Mr. Speaker, I stand again in this House with regard to

closing debate, an amendment to the Standard Time Act. As my hon. colleagues

have all spoken in favour of the actual amendment, it do not seem to be a

significant piece of legislation in regard to the general public but it is

really, in some instances, a significant piece of legislation when you are

talking about companies that rely on correct data processing and collection.

That is where it comes in. Also, the Member for Lewisporte actually alluded to

the time changes in regard to flights and the scheduling of flights and that

kind of thing. I am not positively sure if it comes into bear there but,

certainly, it is something that I would like to see with regard to this piece of

legislation that makes us concurrent and also standardizes the adjustment of the

time right across Canada, the US and, particularly, most of the world.

Mr. Speaker, I want to be clear, before I sit down, that this amendment does

nothing in regard to the adjustment of time zones. I have to be very clear on

that. It does not affect those whatsoever. We will be exactly the same time zone

as we have been for as long as I can remember and beyond. Mr. Speaker, all this

does is adjusts and establishes the time that we would adjust our clocks in

regard to the daylight savings time from 12:01 a.m. to 2:00 a.m. For all the

reasons that we have spoken about with regard to the debate here in the House,

that is the only thing that this does. It changes from 12:01 a.m. now to 2:00

a.m.

As we all know, Mr. Speaker, in regard to people changing their clocks and

whatever it may be, most people probably change them when they get up in the

morning. They know that the time has gone forward or back and they change their

time when they get up in the morning, or they actually change the time before

they go to bed, because it does not mean anything to them other than the change

has happened.

In this case here, we are making this amendment in regard to a request that

came forward from an individual who works with a company that actually collects

data and has to request a patch be put in place by the company that provides

their software adjustments. So, that is all it does, and then it came to my

attention that there are a number of companies in Newfoundland and Labrador that

have the same issues.

So with that, Mr. Speaker, I take my seat in the House, and I will try to

answer any questions in regard to this important bill when we go to Committee

stage.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Is it the pleasure of the House that the said bill now be

read a second time?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

CLERK: A bill,

An Act To Amend The Standard Time Act. (Bill 6)

MR. SPEAKER: The bill has now been read the second time.

When shall this bill be referred to a Committee of the Whole House?

Now, tomorrow, presently?

MS BURKE: Presently, Mr. Speaker.

On motion, a bill, "An Act To Amend The Standard Time Act", read a second

time, ordered referred to a Committee of the Whole presently, by leave. (Bill 6)

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MS BURKE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to call from the Order Paper Order 6, Bill 7.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal Affairs.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Human

Resources, Labour and Employment, that Bill 7,

An Act To Amend The

Municipalities Act, 1999, be now read a second time.

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that Bill 7,

An Act To Amend The

Municipalities Act, 1999, be now read a second time.

Motion, second reading of a bill, "An Act To Amend The Municipalities Act,

1999". (Bill 7)

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal Affairs.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, Mr. Speaker.

It is a pleasure to get up in this House and address this act in regard to

amendments to the Municipalities Act, 1999.

This act is the most substantial act that we have within the department. It

governs and sets regulations and sets the governance structure for

municipalities, LSDs, and bodies right throughout Newfoundland and Labrador. It

guides them in the process that they have to go through in delivering the

services that they provide to citizens under their municipality. That is

essentially what it does.

Over a number of years, in regard to the AGM held yearly by Municipalities

Newfoundland and Labrador, there are a number of resolutions that have come to

the floor of that particular AGM. Those have been introduced, they have been

discussed and debated in regard to that process, and they have been requested.

The request has gone forward and been adopted. I should have said that they have

been adopted by MNL and municipalities, the mayors, and the councillors that are

in attendance at Municipalities Newfoundland and Labrador AGM. Then they have

come forward for consideration to the Department of Municipal Affairs to make

amendments to the Municipalities Act.

There are a number of amendments that are listed in regard to this important

piece of legislation, but I would like to reference a number of them as I go

through because these amendments modernize legislation, they certainly

strengthen municipal governance, and they also improve the operations of

municipalities throughout the Province. I have to say, since I became the

Minister of Municipal Affairs, that I have grown to appreciate the efforts and

the good work that is done by municipal leaders all throughout Newfoundland and

Labrador. They are elected. They are a different level of government.

As we sit here today as MHAs in this House of Assembly, well, they are the

next level down, but they are there on a daily basis, on an hourly basis, in

regard to their municipalities, addressing all the issues and needs of their

citizens, trying to bring their services and the best services they possibly can

to the people who live in their communities. I commend them for that, Mr.

Speaker, because they are certainly an important part of our government

structure in Newfoundland and Labrador, as they are throughout this great

country of ours called Canada.

This will actually help them, as I understand it. I have met with

Municipalities Newfoundland and Labrador on a number of occasions. I find the

executive team there really good to work with. They are very supportive, I must

say, of this government, as was shown out in Fogo not so long ago in regard to

the amalgamation of all the communities out on Fogo Island into one

municipality. They have supported that. They have actually helped in the

process. They have actually advised the municipal leaders on the Island and the

particular communities in regard to that process. They are a very welcome and

important part of my department with regard to the good things that we try to do

as a Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to provide municipalities not

only with governance and guidance but also with some tools to carry out their

work.

The amendments were identified as I referenced the resolutions that were put

forward at MNL but they also were subject to an internal review in my

department. Then we consulted again with the Municipalities Newfoundland and

Labrador and also the Professional Municipal Administrators to make sure that if

we were to bring these amendments forward that we fully understood why they were

needed; the structure and the amendment in particular would have to address the

needs that were being asked for by the municipalities and MNL at the time.

With that, Mr. Speaker, the proposed amendments will not provide

municipalities the authority over matters which are already subject to municipal

governance. I want to be clear on that too. It does not give them any authority

over those matters; it just adjusts certain amendments to the Municipalities Act

where they can actually address certain items and issues and challenges that

they have in regard to their everyday operation. These amendments are also

consistent to the trends right across Canada and other municipal legislation

found in o