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November 20, 2024 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Vol. L No. 92

The House met at 10 a.m.

SPEAKER (Bennett): Order, please!

The hon. the Member for St. John's Centre.

J. DINN: Speaker, I rise on a point of order regarding the offensive language by the Minister of Education, and this is my earliest possible time to do so, since I had to consult with Hansard .

Yesterday, according to Hansard , the Minister of Education, in response to my question on school violence stated: If I had the ability to stop people from being jerks, I can tell you I'd do it and I could point in the direction that I would start.

Speaker, while I'm sympathetic to the fact that the minister's own insecurities and lack of understanding of the K-to-12 system probably caused her to make this –

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

SPEAKER: Order, please!

J. DINN: – and other remarks, the fact remains she resorted to insults, and not particularly good ones, in answering the question on a serious issue. Whether the minister was directing the comment at students, at Members of the Opposition in general –

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

SPEAKER: Order, please!

I can't hear the Member speaking.

J. DINN: – or me in particular, in the context of debate referring to another person as a jerk is offensive, unacceptable of Members of the House of Assembly and unbecoming of the Minister of Education.

Based on previous rulings on points of order, the Speaker considers the tone, the manner, the intention of the Member speaking. The Speaker also considers the person to whom the words are directed, the degree of provocation and whether or not the remarks created disorder in the Chamber.

Unfortunately, Speaker, the minister's comments indicate an intent to offend. Earlier, the minister stated that she wished she was naive enough to live in a world where the Member opposite lives, to think that a one-size-fits-all approach to fixing it. Obviously, it was an attempt to disparage my professionalism and experience as a teacher.

Speaker, I would never presume, nor have I belittled her professionalism as a nurse, but I will stack my 32 years as a classroom teacher and four years as president of the NLTA and vice-president of the Canadian Teachers' Federation against her experience in the classroom.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

J. DINN: Based on the jeering, the shouting and the immature behaviour of some of her caucus colleagues, Speaker, you can only conclude that the minister's comments were designed to create disorder and interfere with my ability as a Member of this House to carry out my duties and ask questions.

Speaker, I do not envy your role in maintaining decorum. If you were to comb through Hansard recordings you would be hard pressed to find an example where my colleague from Labrador West, or I, or even our previous leader, Alison Coffin, engaged in this type of behaviour.

In my 32 years in the classroom, even my most challenging classes were better behaved, demonstrated more respect and exhibited more common decency than what was and is currently being showed by certain Members on the government side. Frankly, it is behaviour unbecoming of this House.

I ask that the minister retract or clarify her use of the word “jerk.”

Thank you.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

J. HOGAN: Thank you, Speaker.

I just briefly want to comment, having heard the point made this morning and the words that were, I guess, in question. Certainly, in my quick hearing of them this morning, it doesn't sound like they were directed at anyone in particular. Certainly, no names were used and certainly no Members of the House were referenced in those comments.

I do find it ironic that the Member is talking about name calling of Members in this House and, at the same time, said that the Minister of Education is insecure.

I can say that I try to teach my children two wrongs don't make a right. I'm not sure what he taught for 32 years, but if he taught that, we have big problems in our education system and I probably know where they came from, Speaker.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: Order, please!

I'll take the point of order under advisement. I will review Hansard and also the webcast and report back to the House at a later time.

The hon. the Member for Lake Melville.

P. TRIMPER: Thank you, Speaker.

I rise also on a point of order under Standing Order 49, and if you review Hansard , which came available last evening so I'm just speaking to this now, the Member for St. John's Centre, during the exchange yesterday said: Speaker, we brought this up before and the world I live in, I've lived that life, unlike the minister. I would say right now, instead of pulling out students from the water, they're probably drowning them.

Speaker, while it maybe an analogy and so on, it was a heated exchange, no question, but I think the suggestion that my colleague is somehow drowning students, even used in this way, I would say is definitely a very serious and an inappropriate allegation.

I would also ask that the Member for St. John's Centre withdraw his remarks.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for St. John's Centre.

J. DINN: Thank you, Speaker.

It is indeed unfortunate that there seems to be little grasp of context nor of metaphor. The comment that was made was in reaction to this and following on this: It's one thing to stand and look at a student and wonder why they fell in the water, but this government is going to go upstream and figure out why they fell in the first place. That is the context in which that statement was made. It was also an extension of the metaphor that, again, the minister herself encouraged.

Now I will withdraw that, but I will tell you one thing.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

J. DINN: I will tell you one thing, Speaker. In the context of that, it was following that, it was not a standalone comment and I find it a little bit bothersome that it was brought up. But if it's considered offensive, I will withdraw it.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

SPEAKER: Thank you.

Again, I will take that under advisement and report back to the House this afternoon.

Government Business

SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

J. HOGAN: Speaker, I call from the Order Paper, Motion 2.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

J. HOGAN: Speaker, I move, seconded by the Deputy Premier, that notwithstanding Standing Order 9, this House shall not adjourn at 5 p.m. on Wednesday, November 20, 2024, but shall continue to sit to conduct Government Business and, if not earlier adjourned, the Speaker shall adjourn the House at midnight.

SPEAKER: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

All those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

SPEAKER: All those against, 'nay.'

Motion carried.

The hon. the Government House Leader.

J. HOGAN: Speaker, I call from the Order Paper, Order 20.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

J. HOGAN: Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation, that

An Act to Amend the Arts Council Act, Bill 98, be now read a second time.

SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that Bill 98 be now read a second time.

Motion, second reading of a bill, “An Act to Amend the Arts Council Act.” (Bill 98)

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation.

S. CROCKER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I'll just take a few minutes to introduce the bill this morning in the second reading. I'm going to start off by thanking ArtsNL for bringing this forward to us and I thank their board and staff. I thank Dave Brown, the chair of the board, and Melanie Martin, who is the executive director, for their work in working with us on this bill and facilitating consultation with their users and with the arts community throughout the province.

Speaker, created in 1980, the Arts Council fosters and promotes arts in Newfoundland and Labrador and, obviously, works to encourage public awareness of the arts. This act is over 40 years old, Speaker, and needs a refresh. They've done tremendous work and they continue to do tremendous work. That's why we're bringing this forward this morning.

This process included a comprehensive questionnaire targeting various stakeholders, consultation with other stakeholders as well and, again, all with the help of ArtsNL. We also took the opportunity to engage with Indigenous organizations and collect specific information and insights on the needs of Indigenous artists and incorporate Indigenous ways, learnings and knowing into the practice of arts in our province.

One of the biggest challenges ArtsNL has been facing over the last number of years is recruitment of board members and the barriers to participation in the board. I think one of the main things that this bill will actually do, Speaker – and through the consultation we heard this loud and clear – is previously board members were not allowed to receive funding for their projects as artists. Obviously, Speaker, everybody in this House and anybody involved in the arts community would realize that professional artists rely on organizations like ArtsNL for their funding.

One of the most significant changes that this will make is this will allow artists to actually be board members and participate in that and also receive grants.

That being said, Speaker, we realize that this requires safeguards and there are safeguards that we will put in place in order to eliminate conflicts of interest. One of the things that we will do as we move forward with this legislation and the regulations is remove board members from the juries.

So what happens when an artist makes a submission to a specific fund, the board actually approves the global amount of said fund, but they do not approve individual applications. Those individual applications are approved by a jury of their peers who wouldn't be involved in that pool. Previously, board members would have sat on juries, but in order to facilitate this change to the legislation, board members will no longer sit on juries.

As well, this brings us in line with other jurisdictions. All other jurisdictions in Atlantic Canada, for example, have already made this change, because as you could appreciate, the limitation that it brings by saying to an artist you can't participate on the board if you want to receive funding.

Some other changes that we'll make, obviously, are we will be making general language changes like we always do. We will be doing some incorporating of the Indigenous pieces of what we found.

The other thing that we will be doing is we will change the composition of the board. Previously, it was an artist board, now it will be seven of the up to 11 members of that board will be artists. This also gives us an opportunity – and we heard this from ArtsNL as well – to start to bring in some – give the board, give government the opportunity to appoint people who bring different aspects of governance to a board, for example, lawyers, accountants, other different skillsets that successful boards need. This is modernization.

Hopefully, this will do a number of things, mainly give us the ability to attract more people to sit on the board of ArtsNL.

Speaker, again, I thank everybody at the department for the work on getting this bill to where it is today. I thank ArtsNL and look forward to this bill proceeding through second reading this morning.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Placentia West - Bellevue.

J. DWYER: Thank you, Speaker.

It's always an honour to stand in this House and represent the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, especially when it comes to our Department of Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation.

Today, what we're discussing is Bill 98, the Arts Council amendment. I appreciate the work that's been done by the department and their officials for the simple fact that after 40 years things do need to be modernized.

There are things that are cleaned up, I guess, in the definition and things like that, but as the minister alluded to, the biggest thing about this piece of legislation is the fact of the board and the composition of the board, to understand that if you're a board member you're not eligible for funding is kind of limiting, I guess, who we have to offer as board members because you'd have to be somebody like Shanneyganock to be able to be on the board, because you're already established and you don't need granting or funding.

AN HON. MEMBER: A fine crew they are.

J. DWYER: And a fine crew they are. A shout-out to my buddies, Chris and Mark. K eep up the good work.

But like I said, when it comes to our Arts Council, we have so much to offer here in this province. We bat way above our weight when it comes to the arts. We have lots of great artists, both in our urban area and our rural area, which I would allude to about our board because I think that would be an opportunity for us to go one step further and make sure that we include board members from rural Newfoundland because the offerings in rural Newfoundland are a little bit different than in the urban area of St. John's or the Northeast Avalon, just based on theatres, availability of venue and stuff like that.

When it comes to arts, as I said, we bat well above our weight and it's something that's been really growing in the last short time in this province. It's so good to see. There are lots of different areas, I guess, that bring it in, it's from performance arts to film arts, the visual arts, dance and literary arts. These are all seen under the Arts Council and this is the pool that we get to choose from to make these board members.

Any organization is only as good as the board running it. I'm very encouraged to find out that if you're on the board, you can't be on the jury. Therefore, there's no conflict of interest when it comes to approving funding, because while it might not be the board member that's applying for funding, they may have some kind of conflict of interest when adjudicating that application on behalf of another colleague kind of thing.

So I really like what we've done there. There's a couple of things that really make sense because the board is the one that approves the expenditures. So if we don't have responsible people on the board, then, basically, our whole Arts Council falls apart.

I appreciate the people that have stepped up in the past to be on the board and I look forward and thank people in advance for stepping up to be on Arts Council board going forward because it is a very burgeoning piece of our economy and there's a trickle-down effect again. I talk about that all the time.

When we have a good arts availability, you know, like the Grand Bank Theatre, it's growing leaps and bounds in the last few years, but it's because of the support that they're getting from the two Members on the Burin Peninsula. I commend my colleague on the other side from Burin - Grand Bank for supporting the arts. While it's a field that I've participated in, I'm not sure if my colleague has, but, again, that's what we're trying go do on the Burin Peninsula is work together for the betterment of everything on the Burin Peninsula.

The thing is, we want to go a little bit further and we want to make sure that we're, certainly, setting this up correctly so that once we set it up, there's no collusion or no conflict of interest or anything with the funding and stuff like that because government funding is very much needed to help this burgeoning Arts Council and our artists themselves.

I encourage everybody out there in our arts department, I guess, kind of thing, that part of the Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation, it's a big part of that department so I encourage anybody to get out and support the arts for the simple fact that without bums in the seats, the arts really don't get to thrive so get out and probably step outside your comfort zone and go see a show. It doesn't necessarily have to be at the Arts and Culture Centre. It could be a little show that's being played at the Persistence Theatre or it could be being played at the Grand Bank Regional Theatre.

In the meantime, we are moving in leaps and bounds. Last summer, I got to experience Come From Away out in Gander and I thought the way it was set and everything was great. So we are moving in the right direction. I do commend the department on bringing this forward to make sure that our arts are not left behind or not losing their momentum because it is building and building and building and it's great to see.

When it comes to the board, having a board member from each different facet of the arts is important because then what we're doing is we're bringing in, I guess, the think tank of all the different – now there's going to be some overlapping of what each different art needs. But in the meantime, what we're doing here is we're cleaning up 40-year-old legislation that is going a little bit further now to make sure that we're doing things in the right way.

Like I said, the purpose of the bill is to modernize the Arts Council Act by updating the

definitions, revising council composition and member criteria, enhancing transparency through conflict of interest provisions and incorporating inclusive and gender-neutral language.

I will say that to have the lens of transparency on this is the way we should be doing all legislation. It should be able to be understood by everybody not just lawyers and the people who understand the jargon and stuff like that. This is the people's House. When we make legislation in here, it's to affect the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador and its people. What we're trying to do here is take a very burgeoning, as I said before, sector of the Department of Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation and supporting it in a way that it needs to supported.

It's great that we got to this point. Bill 98 seeks to amend the Arts Council Act to update

definitions, adjust the council composition, integrate gender-neutral language and implement conflict of interest guidelines when it applies to funding of board member, which is very important because we have to get rid of any conflict of interest. We all are under that guise, there's nobody in the province that gets to be under a conflict of interest and get away with it.

I think that's something that the transparency will tell us and it will be something that will make us run a little smoother going forward. But, again, now that we have board members that will be able to apply for arts funding, I think that will open up the pool. I would imagine there'll be many applications not just trying to fill positions or trying to find people to fill positions.

I think now with this new expansion of this legislation, it gives both younger artists and older artists and burgeoning artists an opportunity, but also an opportunity to be on the inside and help shape and mould our arts council and how we see arts moving forward in the near future. I also believe that this legislation helps us as a Legislature, but it also helps the board to understand and be able to create an opportunity for many members.

What I would suggest is, as I said before and I alluded to before, what the arts look like in an urban area and what the arts look like in rural Newfoundland are very different. That includes our burgeoning Indigenous artists; they have such great things to offer. I just took in a show not long ago at the Arts and Culture Centre and it was performed by Indigenous women. I thought it was tremendous. It was eye opening for sure. I felt that it was certainly part of the whole truth and reconciliation to take it in because it was very much geared towards that.

I've been in the arts, from performing to, obviously, being a consumer of the arts. But in the meantime, I think that after being in that atmosphere and being in that community, you understand how helpful everybody is to each other and – as we say in here lots of times – there is no silver bullet. So it is good to have many different minds around that table, as we're doing here with the board in order to get those different ideas and think tanks and thinking outside the box and see where we can go because if we're not looking at moving forward, then being stagnant doesn't really create a burgeoning economy.

These amendments address operational inefficiencies and aligns the act with contemporary practices. Bill 98 represents a comprehensive effort to modernize the Arts Council Act , ensuring inclusivity, accountability and operational efficiency.

A couple of the key points that I noticed through the technical briefing was the definition of an artist and arts administrator is updated and they're providing more inclusive criteria. The membership on the council will be capped at two consecutive terms and a term limit of three years per team. I think some of this kind of came from COVID as well, because when we couldn't meet and stuff like that in person, it opened up other ways for us to meet and to make sure that we're still moving forward and operating.

The minister will issue conflict-of-interest guidelines concerning funding decisions and prohibiting council members from serving on funding committees. So as the minister alluded to, if there is a conflict of interest, the minister and the department is going to step in and let them know that there is a conflict of interest. We're going to keep an eye on that for sure.

As the shadow Cabinet minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation, I feel it is my duty to make sure that we're on top of that as well. So like I said, right now if you're a board member, you can't be on the jury that's adjudicating the applications; therefore, that just eliminates a big conflict of interest. It also initiates the fact that we can get many more people that would be interested in being on the board.

While they can apply for it right now, until we bring this into legislation, this amendment – which I do agree with and I will support. If you're a board member and you're not eligible to apply for funding, it kind of eliminates you if you're not already an established artist. So when we talk about artists, obviously, we kind of go to thinking about visual artists or musicians or anything like that.

But there's so much more to our Arts Council that it covers. Film is a big one for here in Newfoundland; I mean, we have the most scenic routes. I'll give a shout-out to my colleague from Bonavista for having a Disney film that was shot in his district.

Like I said, we're moving in the right direction; the department is very much on top of things. They ask me sometimes why I don't have any questions. It's because I work well with the minister, I guess. We worked well together before when he was in other different departments. That relationship has carried on and it's because of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. It has nothing to do with us personally or anything like that.

With that being said, if we're not willing to lay down the swords and work with each other, then the province is going to stay stagnant. I'm here to work with anybody that wants to help the people of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. I think that my colleague from Ferryland last night in our debate pegged it really good: nobody has the silver bullet.

That sticks with me because I use that all the time. I don't think anybody has all the answers. But I think that if we all come around the table, like we're doing with this board, and taking many different minds, we'll get to a better understanding of fruition, instead of thinking that we know it all and I'm going to throw this at you and see if it sticks. We're not pulling spaghetti here, we're making legislation.

Like I said, the other regulation-making authority shifts to the Lieutenant-Governor in Council, removing regulatory powers from the Arts Council. So that's another big step in the right direction. Like I said, that autonomy for making decisions comes down to the minister. I think that might be something we'll discuss in Committee when I get to a few questions. Like I said, for the most part, my take on it is that I appreciate the department bringing this forward.

I also know that the Arts Council is appreciative of this going forward because it modernizes the council, it gives us a greater opportunity to succeed and it gives us a greater opportunity to support our artists throughout our province. Like I said, we should have a little bit of a different lens, maybe, on it from urban to rural. But other than that, what the Arts Council is doing here is certainly setting us up for success in the province.

So the amendments strengthen governance and streamline council operations, while enhancing transparency in funding decisions. By restricting council members, the legislation mitigates potential conflicts of interest. The redefined role of the minister in issuing conflict of interest guidelines, further centralizes administrative oversight, which could increase operational efficiency, but might reduce the council's autonomy.

So, again, I'm glad that this is on the floor of the House of Assembly and I look forward to Committee. I want to commend the people in the department for their due diligence in putting this together. Also, when we get in Committee, I'll want to discuss who was consulted, who weighed in and why we got to this point at this time in our history.

Like, I said, I want to thank the minister for bringing it to the floor of the House of Assembly and I look forward to questions in Committee.

Thank you, Speaker.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

J. BROWN: Thank you, Speaker.

Just a bit there. I'm glad to see that some of these changes are making – I know, speaking with artists and that. Thanks to all the artists in this province who work in a very precarious industry, going from grant to grant and project to project. It is important that we make sure that they all have the ability for funding when they can get their grants and that. To serve on the Newfoundland and Labrador Arts Council, like I said, you forego your ability to go for grant work. With the makeup of how the board currently is, there's a majority of them have to be artists on the board.

This is great that they're going to make these changes, that they will be able to find a way to not have conflict, but also to actually attract more artists to sit on the Newfoundland and Labrador Arts Council. If you sit on the council as it currently stands, you won't be able to apply for grants, and artists – that's what they heavily rely on when they're doing their work and making their living. A majority of the artists in this province, that's their bread and butter for the most part.

The Newfoundland and Labrador Arts Council, created in the '80s, governs ArtsNL, a Crown corporation. Its purpose is to foster, promote and create products of work, the study and enjoyment of those works and to engage public awareness of the arts in this province. The primary function of ArtsNL is to develop and administer grants programs for professional artists, organizations, community groups and schools. This is the only grant-giving agency for individual artists in the province right now. That's a very important thing they have to establish, but also the changes will help alleviate that.

The current composition of our Arts Council: the council currently has a maximum of 13 members, 10 of whom must be artists. But those 10 individuals can't apply for grants right now, as it is. So that's 10 artists that either have to have some other kind of income or some other form – if they're retired or something like that. It kind of makes it really hard to recruit anyone right now that is on the council.

It prohibits a member of council from serving on a committee that makes decisions (inaudible). We talk about the artists and the importance of art in this province. Also, we want to foster more artists, we want to make sure that we have the ability to send that art out into the world and globally to show people and showcase the uniqueness of this province.

When it comes to art in this province we have probably one of the biggest displays of art, but also the biggest different types of art. You stop and think about it, just in Labrador alone between Innu, Inuit, Labradorian, then you work your way down the Northern Peninsula. There are all different types of art; there are all different forms of art.

We have probably one of the biggest tapestries of different types of art. We're a mosaic of different cultures that all blend together in this province. It's important that we make sure that ArtsNL and the Arts Council have the tools and ability to make sure that those artists have access to grants, access to funding to continue that work. We don't want it to stop; we want to improve it and expand it as much as possible.

We talk about arts funding and things like that. It's one of those things that sometimes doesn't get the full view that we hope for. We'll always encourage it, us here in the NDP caucus. We'll continue to always encourage them and ask government to make sure that the arts are more than adequately funded; it has all the funding and tools and everything at its disposal. To continue to make beautiful pieces of art and to show our culture and out diversity and to show that we're a very, very interesting place to the world.

We punch well above our weight when it comes to visual arts, photography, music and everything that goes in between. Like I said, even sculpting and everything in between, all of that, we do punch well above our weight on the Canadian stage and on the global stage.

Having the ability to make sure that the board that is behind a lot of it has the abilities and the tools, those who are on the board can continue their art and not have to forgo these grants, but also make sure there is conflict of interest stuff in place so that they can still be able to work but also serve on a very amazing board that does amazing work for the cultural fabric of this province.

I don't think we give enough praise to those artists and the people who are out there with the creative minds to showcase their talents but also showcase the place that they call home, which is Newfoundland and Labrador. It's very nice.

Art is a very important part of a society and one's well-being as well. It's just nice to have, it's nice to hold. It's also nice to just sit and ponder the story of that piece of art.

Once again, we do support these changes to the Arts Council. We support the artists of Newfoundland and Labrador and we thank the minister for bringing this forward and Arts NL and the Newfoundland and Labrador Arts Council for suggesting these changes, but we want to keep supporting artists. We want to make sure that they have all the tools in the toolbox they need to stay funded, because this is a piece-by-piece kind of industry. It's precarious work. Sometimes they go from grant to grant and little in between, so we need to make sure they're supported, they have all the tools that are necessary to continue the funding.

I've read about a funding program that Ireland has recently undertaken where they're doing a pilot on basic income for artists, to keep them for longer so they're not going from grant to grant. That's something that I throw over to the minister responsible for Arts NL. There are some pilots going on in Ireland to make sure that their funding is topped up so they can continue to work year-round and not have to worry about if their grants are going to run out and things like that. I'll throw that over to the minister to ponder on.

It's a great piece of work and we can learn from other jurisdictions as well. All in all, though, when it comes to the actual artists we have in this province, bar none, we're punching well above our weight and we're doing a fantastic job, but I think, right now, this is a good piece of legislation to help further that.

Once again, I thank the artists of this province for the amount of work that they do.

Thank you, Speaker.

SPEAKER: Seeing no other speakers, if the Minister of Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation speaks now he will close debate.

The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation.

S. CROCKER: Thank you very much, Speaker.

I want to thank the Member for Placentia West - Bellevue and the Member for Labrador West for their remarks this morning on Bill 98, the amendment to the Arts Council Act.

The Member for Placentia West - Bellevue talked about the need for regional representation and that's always something we put a lens on because he's absolutely correct. The arts community is spread right across Newfoundland and Labrador. I know, previously, we have had representation from the West Coast and Labrador and we will certainly be looking for that again. Our current complement is way down and that's one of the reasons we want to get this legislation passed.

If anybody is listening this morning, there is an ongoing intake process right now with the Independent Appointments Commission so if there are people interested, please put your name forward. This is a very worthwhile organization that does a lot of great work throughout our province.

Speaker, just in conclusion, this is a legacy piece for Year of the Arts. Year of the Arts has been a tremendous success throughout our province leading a lot of great projects. If you think about some of the things that are happening right now and what the arts community can bring to our economy, the Member opposite talked about Come From Away . Just yesterday, we announced season three for Come From Away , what that's actually done for the economy in Gander has been absolutely amazing for that investment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

S. CROCKER: Thousands and thousands of people are coming to watch that show, filling up hotel rooms, supporting the hospitality industry and that's the kind of creation, that's the kind of economic impact that the arts community can have on our economy. So let's never underestimate, not only the social and health benefits of art, but also the economic benefits and what it can bring to an economy.

Again, I thank the Arts Council and staff and board members for their work on this piece of legislation. This will be a new tool for them to help modernize their organization.

Thank you to the staff at TCAR for the work that they did throughout this process to get this piece of legislation ready and the arts community for their involvement, for taking their time – 83, I think, submissions from the online questionnaire on this. We heard, and I think we've done our best to incorporate, what the arts community asked for in this piece of legislation, the changes.

One of the things we heard loud and clear is that they wanted to make sure that the majority of these board members were still professional artists. I think we've achieved that; seven of 11 will have a designation as a professional artist. Again, we will make sure that the disciplines are represented here as we go forward.

Speaker, I look forward to some questions in Committee and I'll take my seat.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: Is the House ready for the question?

The motion is that Bill 98 be now read a second time.

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

All those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

SPEAKER: All those against, 'nay.'

Motion carried.

CLERK (Hawley George): A bill,

An Act to Amend the Arts Council Act. (Bill 98)

SPEAKER: This bill has now been read a second time.

When shall the bill be referred to the Committee of the Whole?

L. DEMPSTER: Now.

SPEAKER: Now.

On motion, a bill, “An Act to Amend the Arts Council Act,” read a second time, ordered referred to a Committee of the Whole presently, by leave. (Bill 98)

SPEAKER: The hon. the Deputy Government House Leader.

L. DEMPSTER: Thank you, Speaker.

I move that this House do now resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole to consider Bill 98,

An Act to Amend the Arts Council Act.

SPEAKER: And a seconder for the motion, please.

L. DEMPSTER: Seconded by the Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation.

SPEAKER: Thank you.

It is moved and seconded that I do now leave the Chair for the House to resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole to consider Bill 98.

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

All those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

SPEAKER: All those against, 'nay.'

Motion carried.

On motion, that the House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole, the Speaker left the Chair.

Committee of the Whole

CHAIR (Gambin-Walsh): Order, please!

We are now considering Bill 98,

An Act to Amend the Arts Council Act.

A bill, “An Act to Amend the Arts Council Act.” (Bill 98)

CLERK: Clause1.

CHAIR: Shall clause 1 carry?

The hon. the Member for Placentia West - Bellevue.

J. DWYER: Thank you, Madam Chair.

It's always good to go into Committee and ask questions on behalf of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, especially our artists that this new legislation will be affecting.

Minister, on the composition of the council, it says that we're going to have nine to 11. I think that might need to be cleaned up because we can't have 10; we can't have an even number. So you say it's nine to 11, but if it stops at 10, we're kind of going down a path of … you know what I mean?

So I just want to make sure that we said it was either going to be nine or 11, instead of nine to 11.

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation.

S. CROCKER: Yes, I appreciate the question, but, in reality, that's not uncommon in boards. Boards are often subscribed in that way. I'll just get an answer from the department on why it was done that way, but that is a normal composition of a board; it is a range and often there is an even number in that range.

CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Placentia West - Bellevue.

J. DWYER: Can the minister outline why these changes are coming at this time and can we get a list of people that were consulted from outside the department?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation.

S. CROCKER: Yes, it's coming at this time simply because there was a request that came forward from Arts NL. We meet quarterly with Arts NL, with the chair and the executive director to talk about their priorities and this was one of their priorities.

As I said in my opening, this legislation is 40 years old. The Arts Council was started in 1980 and it just needed to bring us up in a line with other jurisdictions and to modernize, so this was a piece of modernizing.

Many things have changed in the last 40 years, if you think about ensuring that we have the proper representations from different groups, any balance, making sure that we incorporate the proper Indigenous artist properly in this with respect.

That's why it's coming forward now. It's something that was needed and it being the Year of the Arts, we thought this was a good opportunity to, actually, do this legacy piece of legislation.

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister Responsible for Indigenous Affairs and Reconciliation.

S. REID: Thank you, Madam Chair.

It's great to have an opportunity to talk about this piece of legislation today. One of the things that I'm so pleased that the department has been working on is to enhance the support for Indigenous artists around this province.

There have been a number of things that have happened in terms of – one of the pieces of art that has been funded, I believe, is The Forgotten Warriors which is produced by Noel Joe in Conne River. There are other people who are doing books and things like that. Some Members of the House have had an opportunity to see Our Voices , which was a play about Indigenous artists.

So I just want to ask the minister: How is the department and the Arts Council working with Indigenous leaders, Indigenous groups to bring about such a rebirth in the Indigenous arts in this province?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation.

S. CROCKER: Thank you, Chair, and thank you to the minister for that question.

It's an important one because, to the Member for Placentia West - Bellevue's previous question, we talked about why we do this. One of the reasons we do this after 40 years is to ensure that this legislation is revised and defines arts and artists to ensure that Indigenous artists see themselves reflected in the act and their contributions to the arts community.

I know Arts NL has done tremendous work with the Indigenous communities. They have an Indigenous person on their staff that actually is dedicated to Indigenous art and making sure funding is finding it's way –

(Disturbance.)

S. CROCKER: Arts NL continues to do work around Indigenous artists and making sure that Indigenous art products are properly funded, properly displayed as they should be. You spoke of work that was done this year through Year of the Arts funding and that was one of the things that we wanted to ensure is that those contributions are reflected in this legislation and in our communities as we move forward.

CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Placentia West - Bellevue.

J. DWYER: Thank you, Minister – both ministers, I guess – for your question and answer.

Before I go any further, I'd like to mention that today is my colleague's birthday.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

J. DWYER: The Member for the beautiful District of Cape St. Francis is turning 35 today.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

J. DWYER: Anyway, I digress. I would also pass along another birthday wish but we have to wait for him to come back in the room.

When it comes to the Indigenous piece, I really do appreciate where we're going with that because in my opinion, and it's only my opinion, I guess, but our Indigenous artists have so much to offer. It's not only in their art but it's in their tradition. It's bringing forward – it's keeping traditions going. From net making to paint, to sculptures, to everything, it's just so tremendous. We have it on display here in the hallways of our Confederation Building. It's such a great opportunity for our Indigenous community to show off their wares. I will always say that there is so much greatness to offer there.

I'm glad that this legislation is going to include everybody and make sure that funding goes to every resident of Newfoundland and Labrador.

It being the Year of the Arts is very important and to recognize that is very important, and to have this legislation coming in during the Year of the Arts, speaks to how important the Year of Arts is for the simple fact that it made people talk. It made our arts community really step up and be noticed, l ike I said, from conferences that are coming here to films being made, everything, it's tremendous.

The other thing I would ask the minister is: Were various stakeholders consulted on this legislation, and what did they have to say about it? What were some of the think tank ideas?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation.

S. CROCKER: Thank you, Chair, and thank you to the Member for the question.

Part of the consultation was anonymous, which is necessary as well, an anonymous questionnaire that was sent out. I think we had 83 responses.

But back to the Indigenous question as well from both Members, we did targeted consultation as well. We did targeted consultation with our arts organizations, whether it be the dedicated ones that represent each discipline, they were given the opportunity and Indigenous governments were also given the opportunity to have direct consultation into this piece of legislation.

Sorry if I didn't get all your question there.

CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Placentia West - Bellevue.

J. DWYER: Thank you, Madam Chair.

Actually you answered a question I was going to ask later about the targeted surveys, that there were 83 from many different disciplines, from many different parts of the Arts Council and community. I appreciate that.

You said that this was done through engageNL, Minister?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation.

S. CROCKER: Sorry, through engageNL? I'd have to confirm that.

Just back to an earlier question you had, I did receive confirmation that the logic in the nine and 11 is that it is odd numbers. Obviously, I know there's another number in between there, but that's why it's nine and 11.

J. DWYER: But in the legislation it says nine to 11. If we said nine or 11 –

S. CROCKER: No, that's typical. Boards are typically done in a range.

J. DWYER: Okay, thanks.

CHAIR: I ask that you wait until I identify you, because the red light is not on.

The hon. the Member for Placentia West - Bellevue.

J. DWYER: Sorry, Madam Chair, I'll wait my turn. I'm just thinking this conversation is kind of the relationship that we have, so sorry about that.

CHAIR: Do you have a question?

J. DWYER: Yeah, okay, I'm going to ask another question.

The legislation repeals

section 3.1 and replaces with a new 3.1. There are some specific word changes in this, like a professional artist is no longer mentioned; income is no longer a factor; replaced with words like intention to develop; and recognized as an artist by a person's peers. Why is there a change in this language?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation.

S. CROCKER: My apologies, 3.1?

CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Placentia West - Bellevue.

J. DWYER: Yes. Paragraph 5(b), I think.

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation.

S. CROCKER: Sorry.

So that would be around the process of the grants and the granting and giving artists the opportunity to actually sit on the board and receive grants. That's the piece that we discussed earlier.

That's my understanding. If I'm wrong, I say to the Member that somebody in the department will clarify that for me.

CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Placentia West - Bellevue.

J. DWYER: Thank you, Madam Chair.

Why the reduction in the size of the council from 13 to no fewer than nine and not more than 11, with the majority being artists, themselves, on the board?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation.

S. CROCKER: Again, that's something we received feedback on in consultation, was trying to maintain a board of up to 13 is challenging. Anybody that's involved in boards right now will realize that board representation and board engagement and board recruitment is never easy.

Through the consultation, through What We Heard and through talking to ArtsNL, we felt that that was a comfortable number. It was important that seven of that maximum of 11 would be artists, because one of the things we did hear clearly from the arts community is that they wanted to maintain a solid majority.

The number in the consultation was typically found to be around 66 per cent or two-thirds to be artists, so it was important that we made sure that that is there. By having at least seven artists on that board, you certainly have a really strong opportunity of having almost all disciplines represented at the same time.

CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Placentia West - Bellevue.

J. DWYER: I think the thing is that the two are not mutually exclusive. So I think that the thing is now that the rules have changed, that an artist can apply for funding while not being in a conflict of interest, I don't think we'll have any issue on getting board members. I think that the 13 could be maintained but in the meantime, with that being said, we have such a vast province. As long as the majority are from that part of the economy, I guess, or the whole council and who they oversee, I think that it'll give us a greater opportunity to have board members.

With that being said, is there a selection committee for the board members themselves? How do you get selected to be on a board?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation.

S. CROCKER: That would be done through the Independent Appointments Commission. I think, in my earlier remarks I talked about it's an ongoing intake. If you went to the Public Service Commission website right now, you would see that there's an intake.

We want to get this board back in place. There are currently five members, and that's extremely challenging. Arts NL wants to get this back, get their board back to its full complement. They're a very busy organization so this legislation is important for us to give them the tools to get back there and move forward quickly to make sure that representation is there and that we're getting the funding out to help our artists.

CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Placentia West - Bellevue.

J. DWYER: I understand what you're saying here, Minister, and I would encourage anybody listening this morning that if you're interested in the arts and you're not necessarily from a different discipline, but if you have interest in the arts, then step in and see where we can take this to in the future. It's a very important part of not only our economy, but our whole culture. That's a big piece for Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation.

That's a thing that we're looking at, where the artist piece of the department is creeping into the culture piece of the department. I think that's what distinguishes us as artists here in this province is the culture that we draw from to produce our wares or our arts.

Why no longer is there any geographic representation? What rationale was used for this decision?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation.

S. CROCKER: Well, I think every single board that the IAC or the Public Service Commission looks at geography is always, always a consideration. Again, you need to be cognizant when building a board because if you're too prescriptive in a location, you don't get anybody. Then you have a board that's not functional. That was the concern.

The main reason we're here this morning, the main request that Arts NL had to us as a government was to bring forward legislation that allowed them to actually fill their board out. It's challenging when you're working on a board that it's having a lot of influx, people moving in and out, leaving for different reasons.

The biggest factor certainly was the fact that a professional artist couldn't apply for funding. If you're a professional artist, no matter where you are in this country – and I would argue, in the world – seed funding is an extremely important building block into moving further along. Really, the reason we're debating this legislation today, with a sense of getting it done, is so that Arts NL can have the ability to get out, we can get our recruitment done and we can get a new complement in there as quickly as possible to make sure that they're fulfilling their mandate.

CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Placentia West - Bellevue.

J. DWYER: Thank you, Madam Chair.

That seems to be the right direction to take this, Minister. I appreciate that because when our artists are trying to get something produced or trying to bring their wares to the world, it's always the upfront, sunken costs that kind of holds back an artist. So I really do appreciate our support for the arts because, like I said, it's the upfront money that gives them a chance to get out of the gates in a professional manner and they're not struggling or they're not behind the eight ball all the time. So I appreciate that.

We agree that the members be reimbursed for their expenses for meetings, but can you explain what the difference will be now that it isn't on the scale of expenses for public servants but at the discretion of guidelines established by the Lieutenant Governor in Council?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation.

S. CROCKER: I appreciate the question, but I'm going to have to get back to the Member and I'll get some clarification on it.

CHAIR: No further questions?

J. DWYER: I've got one more.

CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Placentia West - Bellevue.

J. DWYER: My last question still has to do with the board. The members are limited to two consecutive, three-year terms. Continuity is something we talk about all the time in the arts, but for the continuity of the board, would there be staggered elections where if we're going for 11, we'd do five one year and six the next or anything like that? Because that might give us more availability and opportunity to choose from a pool of people that would like to be on the Arts Council.

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation.

S. CROCKER: Yes, that's a really good point. Unfortunately, when you find yourself in a situation that we find ourselves in now with up to six vacancies – yes, we're going to have six appointees, hopefully, at about the same time. But typically, no, there are people expire and any time we're looking at building a board, continuity and knowledge is important.

It's also important to have term limits, in my opinion, certainly because that way we're changing people throughout the system. I think that's important, too, to have that ability to move people in and out, change expertise, make sure that one discipline is not heavier weighted to another. So I think that's just good board governance.

CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Placentia West - Bellevue.

J. DWYER: Thank you, Madam Chair.

I couldn't agree with that more, Minister. I think that's a really positive move in the right direction and it's going to help a lot.

One of the things in clause 4 that really is good for us, too, is with the council's composition, it ensures the residency in the province for council members and it introduces guidelines for leadership roles, including the chair person and the vice-chair.

I think in having that language cleaned up, it really lets people know what their roles and duties are when it comes to the council and weighing in on different things. But to oversee the jury and oversee the expenditures of the Arts Council is a very important role for the board and I think that is something that they will take very seriously, as they have in the past.

As for getting the money out the door, as long as that's done in a timely manner, there is no real holdup or delay to our artists. We all know that when you have a bright idea as an artist, you want to run with it today; you don't want to until you get some funding to run with it. While you do make notes and you keep it within yourself of your competitive advantage and your opportunity that you see, without the funding and without that opportunity, sometimes it just doesn't get out of the gate.

So a lot of our artists are hand tied to not getting funding or getting funding so we want to make sure that the funding that's going out the door is something that's been drawn in from the burgeoning economy in the arts. Like I said, I think that reinvesting in the arts is what's making our arts burgeon here in the province. I thank the minister for that; I thank the department.

I will just say that I really appreciate that this is being brought forward after 40 years and being cleaned up. It's a benefit to the province, it's a benefit to our artists, it's a benefit to any government of the day, but again it is overseen and there are checks and balances when it comes to conflict of interest, when it comes to board composition, when it comes to the jury. If there is any conflict of interest at the end of the day, what happens here is that it's the Lieutenant-Governor in Council and the minister himself or herself, whoever is the minister of the day, that will have the final decision on what is conflict of interest.

I don't think that's overstating the office itself. I think that there's always going to be somebody there that's hopefully going to make the right decisions, I guess. I can't speak for anybody else, but I know if get the opportunity I'll certainly make sure that I'll be listening to all our councils, all our boards and make sure that we're listening to the boots on the ground so that we can improve our economy through our arts.

Congratulations, I will say on my closing, to all of our artists for making this year, the Year of the Arts, such a great success.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation.

S. CROCKER: I thank the Member for his questions. I know there was one question I haven't got an answer yet, but I assure him I will get him that answer, if not this morning, sometime later this afternoon.

CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

J. BROWN: Thank you, Chair.

Just a couple of questions here. Under the

definitions for artists and that, performance arts comedians were left out. Is there a reason why comedians were left out from the definition of artists in this particular one?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation.

S. CROCKER: I'll seek clarification, but my understanding would be they would be captured under another part of the performing arts, because they're certainly not left out. I know it's something that we've funded in the past and we'll continue to fund. But I'll get a clarification on why that specific –

CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

J. BROWN: I thank the minister for looking into that for me.

Could the minister also elaborate on some of the different artist groups that he consulted with when drafting up this legislation?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation.

S. CROCKER: All artist groups would have been given an opportunity to have input in this. It would be all of our provincial bodies that would have been given an opportunity. Again, a lot of the process was facilitated by us in Arts NL and the opportunity was given.

The opportunity went out as an anonymous questionnaire, as well, because we wanted to give people an opportunity to be honest and fair on their opinions, but we did seek input from our arts organizations, from all of them. I can't tell you exactly which ones did actually submit but they were all certainly given that opportunity.

We have that ongoing dialogue with our arts anyway, at all times, not only when we're doing a piece of legislation. I mentioned earlier, we met quarterly with Arts NL, obviously as a representative body of the arts community in the province and the funder, and we always give them an opportunity to be heard.

Your earlier question about comedians, they would fall under the performing arts category.

CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

J. BROWN: Okay. So just for clarification, they would apply as performing arts and that's a broader thing. They are captured but just not in the definition that way. Okay, perfect.

A lot of artists have been speaking out and they've come to us, as well, talking about the issues regarding artificial intelligence in the arts world. We're wondering why it wasn't addressed currently under these amendments or is it going to be addressed in other amendments? A lot of artists are worried about their work being exploited by the capture of artificial intelligence.

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation.

S. CROCKER: I fully appreciate the question from the Member, I understand it and I hear it constantly. I think in a lot of ways that's a lot bigger question. That's one that's going to have to be really focused on by the federal government to come in and really look at how we look at artificial intelligence as we go forward and copyright and proprietary properties and stuff. It's a big question.

Really this piece of legislation today is about giving the arts community, giving Arts NL, the ability to structure its board and modernize the legislation, but I think we will grapple with AI in maybe every single facet of our lives as we go forward. It's something that we certainly hear and we'll certainly be representing artists on it.

CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

J. BROWN: Thank you, Chair.

Just one last question. The council currently has the power to make regulations to approve by Lieutenant Governor respecting information to be provided to applications for grants and the procedure to follow in applying for grants and the given grants. The purpose of

section 16 only deals with the regulation-making authority for conflict of interest.

Where will the regulation-making power now lie for grant application procedures? I worry that the new wording will just create a bit of ambiguity about who gets that power.

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation.

S. CROCKER: It's certainly not created in that manner. That power will still rest at Arts NL. I'm very proud to say that it's our government, this government, that, since 2019, moved Arts NL from $2 million a year annual funding to a stable $5 million a year in annual funding. But that envelope of funding is provided annually to Arts NL and, rightfully so, Arts NL has no more accountability, other than the proper distribution of that funding, we have no other say in that funding and that won't change.

So the change that will happen with the jury and the fact that Arts NL members are coming off the juries, for example, if there's an emerging artist fund that has, for argument's sake, $100,000 in it, the board of Arts NL would approve the global number of $100,000, but then how that's distributed to individual artists is a decision of the juries. The juries, again, will not have board members.

I think there's a very strong accountability here and kudos to Arts NL, they've always operated in a very, very, very responsible manner. I have full confidence in the work that they're doing.

CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Baie Verte - Green Bay.

L. PADDOCK: Thank you, Madam Chair.

Minister, on page 3, under specialized training, there's a second bullet: apprenticeship. That annotation to apprenticeship got me thinking, what about craftspeople? I'll highlight some of the examples across my district: knitters, quilters, carpenters. I even have a knife-maker out in Middle Arm. A lot of their works are made for practical purposes, but become, afterwards, pieces of art.

What is the intent then in looking at that, in incorporating craftspeople into and being recognized as artists? Because art is in the eye of the beholder.

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation.

S. CROCKER: Thank you, Chair, and I thank the Member for the question. It's a very good question and it's a question that we often debate.

Currently, crafts in this province fall into the Department of Industry. Numerous conversations with the Craft Council – because I agree with you, crafts in many, many, many forms are a form of art. That's an ongoing conversation.

When you fall over in, for example, an eligibility in the Department of Industry, that opens up opportunities for you. If you move over to the arts side, that opens up opportunities for you. But I think it's which side do you – not picking sides, but I'm trying to explain. It's where your industry has a better opportunity for stronger supports.

We work with craft and we recognize the value of craft. That's an ongoing debate. Every time we meet with the Craft Council, we see ourselves as artists, but we also see ourselves as an industry. So currently ArtsNL doesn't fund craft, but IET does.

CHAIR: Seeing no further speakers, shall the motion carry?

All those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those in favour, 'aye.'

Carried.

On motion, clause 1 carried.

CLERK: Clauses 2 through 8 inclusive.

CHAIR: Shall clauses 2 through 8 inclusive carry?

All those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

On motion, clauses 2 through 8 carried.

CLERK:

Be it enacted by the Lieutenant Governor and House of Assembly in Legislative Session convened, as follows.

CHAIR: Shall the enacting clause carry?

All those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

On motion, enacting clause carried.

CLERK: A bill,

An Act to Amend the Arts Council Act. (Bill 98)

CHAIR: Shall the title carry?

All those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

On motion, title carried.

CHAIR: Shall I report the bill without amendment?

All those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

Motion, that the Committee report having passed the resolution and a bill consequent thereto, carried.

CHAIR: The hon. the Deputy Government House Leader.

L. DEMPSTER: Thank you, Chair.

I move that the Committee rise and report Bill 98 carried without amendment.

CHAIR: The motion is that the Committee rise and report Bill 98 carried without amendment.

All those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

On motion, that the Committee rise, report progress and ask leave to sit again, the Speaker returned to the Chair.

SPEAKER (Bennett): Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Placentia - St. Mary's and Chair of the Committee of the Whole.

S. GAMBIN-WALSH: Speaker, the Committee of the Whole have considered the matters to them referred and have directed me to report Bill 98 carried without amendment.

SPEAKER: The Chair of the Committee of the Whole reports that the Committee have considered the matters to them referred and directed that Bill 98 be carried without amendment.

When shall the report be received?

L. DEMPSTER: Now.

SPEAKER: Now.

When shall the bill be read a third time?

L. DEMPSTER: Tomorrow.

SPEAKER: Tomorrow.

On motion, report received and adopted. Bill ordered read a third time on tomorrow.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Deputy Government House Leader.

L. DEMPSTER: Thank you, Speaker.

I call from the Order Paper, second reading of Bill 87,

An Act Respecting Licensed Practical Nurses, Registered Nurses, Registered Psychiatric Nurses and Nurse Practitioners, and that is seconded by the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that Bill 87 be now read a second time.

Motion, second reading of a bill, “An Act Respecting Licensed Practical Nurses, Registered Nurses, Registered Psychiatric Nurses and Nurse Practitioners.” (Bill 87)

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

J. HOGAN: Thank you, Speaker.

I am pleased today to discuss Bill 87,

An Act Respecting Licensed Practical Nurses, Registered Nurses, Registered Psychiatric Nurses and Nurse Practitioners.

There are currently two nursing regulators in Newfoundland and Labrador. The College of Licensed Practical Nurses of Newfoundland and Labrador regulates licensed practical nurses under the Licensed Practical Nurses Act, 2005 . The College of Registered Nurses of NL regulates registered nurses and nurse practitioners under the Registered Nurses Act, 2008 . The College of Registered Nurses will also regulate registered psychiatric nurses when amendments to the Registered Nurses Act, 2008 , made already by Bill 84 in this sitting, comes into force on January 1, 2025.

In December 2023, the Department of Health and Community Services received correspondence from the board of the College of Licensed Practical Nurses and the Council of the College of Registered Nurses, indicating both their desires to establish a single nursing regulator in our province.

This bill is being introduced as a result of collaboration between the department and both colleges. The primary mandate of both colleges i s to protect the public. A single regulator would reduce the siloed approach to nursing. Cost savings and efficiencies have been noted in other jurisdictions where there has been a move to one regulator; however, this is of secondary consideration after public protection.

The bill will repeal the Licensed Practical Nurses Act, 2005 and the Registered Nurses Act, 2008 . It will replace them with the Nurses Act . The Nurses Act has a similar structure to the two statutes being repealed. It creates the Newfoundland and Labrador College of Nurses, which will be responsible for regulating the entire nursing profession in the public interest.

The new college will have responsibility for, among other things: licensing and registration; setting standards; managing a complaints and discipline program; and managing a quality assurance program. LPNs, RNs, registered psychiatric nurses and nurse practitioners will all be regulated under this new act.

The Nurses Act establishes the board of the Newfoundland and Labrador College of Nurses. The composition will be nine members, elected from and by registrants; two members appointed by the minister to represent the public interest; two additional members appointed by the board to represent the public interest; and a member appointed by the minister from a list of nominees knowledgeable in education programs for registrants.

Speaker, the Nurses Act has been drafted to reflect the updated procedures, organization structure and language present in similar provisions of more recently updated legislation regulating health professionals in our province. This includes, for example, providing for specific representation of the different categories of registrants on the disciplinary panel and on adjudication tribunals.

As I noted during second reading of the amendment of the Medical Act, 2011 No. 2, where a similar change was made, the expectation will remain that the complaints authorization committee will be formed of board members, where possible, and non-board members will only be part of the CAC, where required. For example, when the committee requires specialized knowledge that council members do not have.

This act would no longer provide specific powers and duties to a director of professional code conduct review, as is the case in the Registered Nurses Act, 2008 . Rather, it would leave these powers and duties to the registrar or delegate, as is consistent with other health profession statutes in our province.

The Nurses Act also provides that, where it is in the public interest, the registrar may suspend or restrict a registrant's licence while awaiting action from the CAC. The act also increases fines to be more reflective of other health profession's statutes.

The bill updates regulation-making authority and provides additional regulation-making power for the college to establish, with the approval of the minister, specific categories of persons who are not required to be licensed in Newfoundland and Labrador to practice in the province.

The bill includes consequential amendments to clean up references to the college in the act and other legislation, as well as to include nurse practitioners in other legislation where appropriate. Transitional provisions are also included to allow for a transition from two regulators to a single regulator without disruption. Significant work and stakeholder engagement has been ongoing to ensure a smooth integration and transition to a single regulator.

During the development of this bill, the department consulted extensively with both colleges who are supportive of this bill. The colleges have consulted with the Registered Nurses' Union, CUPE and NAPE and informed the department that no issues with the consolidation had been flagged. NLHS is aware of the consolidation and have not noted any concerns. The colleges have discussed the concept of consolidating into one regulator with their registrants, who generally view consolidation in either a neutral or positive light.

If approved, the act will come into force on April 15, 2026. The delay is to allow the colleges to undertake the necessary work to merge operations. It is anticipated new regulations will be developed and will come into force when the bill comes into force.

Similar to what is currently the case with both colleges, the Newfoundland and Labrador College of Nurses will have regulation-making authority under this act, and keeping with the current process, regulations require the approval of the minister. The department will work with the existing regulators on the development of these new regulations.

It is important to note the distinction between this bill and Bill 84. As noted, this bill, Bill 87, will appeal the Registered Nurses Act and the Licensed Practical Nurses Act and will replace them with one Nurses Act . However, before this repeal and replace happens, Bill 84 will come into force to allow the College of Registered Nurses of Newfoundland and Labrador to first regulate psychiatric nurses without having to wait for the consolidation of the colleges in April 2026.

Bill 84 will allow for a smooth and organized consolidation of both colleges into a single regulator. This will allow for economies of scale, which are anticipated to increase the ability to regulate the nursing profession and the efficiency of the colleges' process, all with a view to improving public protection. These efficiencies will also result in cost savings, while I noted already are secondary, they're still worth mentioning.

I am pleased to introduce this bill and I look forward to all Members supporting it in this House.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Conception Bay South.

B. PETTEN: Thank you, Speaker.

As I always say, it's always a good time to speak on any legislation in House. We're not going to speak in great length on this. Actually, we met with the College of Registered Nurses, I guess a few weeks back, before the sitting of the House. I'll give credit where credit is due. The college said that when the current minister took over the portfolio, they requested a meeting with him and he obliged. They expressed their desire to have this legislation changed and to be streamlined like we're doing, bringing it all under one body.

After the meeting, to his credit, he told me he would do what he could to make this possible. At the time, I was not aware of the legislation and when and where and how it would get through the system. So I spoke to him several weeks back and, at the same time, it was hopeful that it was going to happen this fall.

I credit the minister with that and I'm sure the college appreciates that as well, because things don't move through government, as we all know, quickly. So you might want to capture that moment. I'll give the minister thanks on this one.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

B. PETTEN: You can frame that, and all of his staff for making it happen because I do know –

AN HON. MEMBER: Stay tuned.

B. PETTEN: Yeah, stay tuned.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible.)

B. PETTEN: This afternoon is coming. Yes, that's right.

But I do know that the college are very thankful for this and they were very concerned, I guess. They wanted to get this done and I respect that. I think what it does is it shows respect for all these bodies.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

B. PETTEN: LPNs and registered nurses, now we have registered psychiatric nurses and nurse practitioners, they all do amazing work in this province. We should be so thankful for what they do and we should be trying to support them in every avenue, every way we can. I know that licensed practical nurses felt that they were being treated differently because they were in a separate silo, as the minister referred to, they're separate from the registered nurses, and nurse practitioners are also feeling left out in another group. Bring them all together under the one umbrella, under the college, makes a lot of sense.

I know probably a lot of the legislation they're working on; they need time to do their own internal work before this bill comes into effect.

I'm familiar with the rationale behind it and that's why I'm not planning on spending a lot of time debating it because I think they were happy to see this come to the floor today, get debated and get passed so they can get to work and put this bill into action for all involved.

I guess, I'll sum it up succinctly in that they're all health professionals. They're very important. They're very respected and we thank them for everything they do for the people of this province.

Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

J. BROWN: Thank you, Speaker.

I just wanted to say this is a good piece of legislation. This is something that the nurses and the nurse practitioners wanted. This new proposed merged college would be one of the largest health care regulators in the entire province with over 10,000 members. So this would be a substantial body to look after registered nurses, nurse practitioners and, after January 1, 2025, registered psychiatric nurses. This would be a large governing body that would encompass the entire nursing profession.

This is something that both the RNs and NPs wanted. It's something that looks like it would be a good piece of legislation, a good amendment and it will create a governing body that would probably help streamline a few services and help us govern, and probably with retention and a bunch of other things.

I thank the minister for this legislation, this current member and the former ministers, who all shepherded this through.

We have nothing more on that. We just have a few questions in Committee on this.

Thank you.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Humber - Bay of Islands.

E. JOYCE: Thank you, Speaker.

I'm going to just stand and have a few words on Bill 87. I'll definitely be supporting the bill itself. I can go through it, but there's no need, the minister did a great job of it.

The issue I'd like to bring up here is when you get a licence, the nurse practitioners, they do help a lot in the health care system, but the biggest concern on the West Coast is the lack of family doctors and the emergency department.

There are a group of licensed practical nurses who want to serve the public. We were talking about the cost of living earlier this week and how we could help out. So when these nurse practitioners, when they get licensed, they want to out and expand their skills and they want to help the public. They see a need in the public. For some ungodly reason that no one has yet to explain to me or explain to the people on the West Coast, when you get registered to do your duties and you could fill a void, why they can't be able to bill MCP or the government. There's no one who can explain it to me.

When we talk about the cost of living for seniors, a lot of seniors do go to the nurse practitioners, we're talking $50, $60; some of them just go to get prescriptions filled, some of them have to do a follow-up. If some of them go to visit once a month that's $500 or $600 net that they have to pay because this government will not allow the nurse practitioners to bill the government.

There's a lack of family doctors on the West Coast. I read one last week, and I got a note on that again today, about how that person has been notified that they can't get a family doctor. I'm sure it's not just the West Coast. I'm sure it's not. I'm sure it's all around the province, but we have a group of nurse practitioners who want to help fill the void.

Here we are, bringing in Bill 87,

An Act Respecting Licensed Practical Nurses, Registered Nurses, Registered Psychiatric Nurses and Nurse Practitioners – here's the act that we're bringing in so we can govern them, make sure there is good governance around that and everybody is going to support this, yet we're not allowing them to go out to the public and fill the void.

I hate to say this, but it's almost like they're saying we have to wait until this Health Accord plan works out five or six, seven years down the road. There's going to be a lot of suffering in between and people are going to pay a lot. Some can't afford to go, so go to the emergency department.

This is what's happening. There has yet to be one person – and I challenge anybody over there, the minister, anybody, the Deputy Premier who's always talking about the cost of living for the seniors. Here's the seniors paying it on a daily basis when they have to go visit. Not one person has yet to stand up and give a reason to the people on the West Coast why nurse practitioners cannot bill the government – not one. They can't do it.

It can be done with a stroke of a pen, Minister. They're not leaving the hospital short. They're doing this in the nighttime and on the weekends to fill the void. The former minister said we have to make sure the hospital setting, that we need enough nurse practitioners there. They're not leaving. They are not leaving the hospital. This is on their own time, on the weekends.

There hasn't been one person from government, not one, the Premier included, who is a doctor, explain to me why that can't be done to alleviate the need for lack of doctors on the West Coast. Alleviate why the seniors, mainly seniors, a lot of young people too, why they have to pay, when you go to a family doctor, you don't have to pay.

I'll tell the minister this: The emergency room in Corner Brook is in a crisis. Bar none, it's in a crisis. I have letters here today again on that. One on a stretcher for days, been taken out of the room, put in a hallway, and then, when it's nighttime, they're put back in just a closet room; back out in the hallway again with people going forward, where the police had to come and drag a few people out of the hallway. This is the email. I'm going to send it to the minister later. The person gave me permission to send it to the minister.

The emergency room in Corner Brook – and I'll say it again, because the Member for Corner Brook is here. The Member for Humber - St. George's District, people from your area are there. There are people from Deer Lake, from the Premier's district, there. People from Humber - Bay of Islands are there. A lot of them are there because they can't get any access to care. They can't get it.

Here we are, we're not going to solve the emergency issue overnight by allowing these nurse practitioners to bill, but I can guarantee you it will take away a lot of pressure. I can assure you that, on numerous occasions, if I never heard it 100 times, I never heard it a thousand times: Why do I have to pay? My doctor just left – last week, I read about a doctor and why she left her family practice. There are people just crying and saying I can't afford it. I got to go get blood work, I got to go back for a follow-up, then I got to go back for pills. That's $180 out of a senior's pocket.

AN HON. MEMBER: No relevance.

E. JOYCE: Someone is over there saying call relevance. That's something to say now, me talking about health care and the seniors in Corner Brook.

Why doesn't the Member stand up? Why doesn't the Minister of Tourism stand up if you want to talk about relevance? You stand up.

SPEAKER: Order, please!

Address the Chair.

S. CROCKER: I did not say relevance. (Inaudible.)

E. JOYCE: Let me tell you, if you want to say it, you stay up. So this is a serious issue and it's something, for some reason, this government will not address.

When you want to talk about it – and I see the Deputy Premier over there shaking her head. I'll bring this up every time I can because you don't know the people that I know that are suffering. If you did, you'd be the one standing up here today with me on this.

When you want to stand up and say across the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador we're doing so much, and here we are denying many people, mainly seniors, access to health care who can't afford it – denying it. There has been not one person, not one minister has yet to stand up from Health and explain why it can't be done.

I said it again and I'll keep saying it, the emergency room in Corner Brook is in a crisis. What do we hear? Oh, we got the Health Accord. We're building this big structure on somebody else's land, so far. What are they saying in Corner Brook? Oh, well, you've got to give us time. What are you going to do in between that? What are you going to do with an 87-year-old lady who's in the emergency in Corner Brook – 87 years old – and there for 27 hours? What are you going to do? What are you going to do with the people who can't get their prescriptions filled? Where do they go?

They got to go to the emergency room, and there are lineups after lineups on that. I could go all night on this, but I ask the minister: Give the people of Western Newfoundland – it's just not the Humber - Bay of Islands; the Member for Corner Brook should be getting the calls. I'm sure he is, and I know the other two Members are getting them also, because a lot of them from Pasadena are in the emergency room.

If you want me to show the emails, I'll show you the emails. I'm sure you're getting them. I know you're after getting the phone calls because they're telling me they're after calling you. I know it. I've said, call your own Member. Yeah, we called him. Well, stand up and support the people who represented you. That's what I say.

I'm not here to try to embarrass the government. I'm trying to say here's a solution that we could put forward to a lot of people in Western Newfoundland. It will save money for a lot of people, the seniors. It would ensure that they got access to health care. It would alleviate the emergency rooms where a lot of people just got to go there to get a prescription filled or try to get a driver's licence filled out or something. The reason why they're going, Mr. Speaker. They are desperate.

Many people if we can't do some things will say, oh, we'll find another way. But when your health is involved, they are desperate, I'll say to the minister. I mean desperate. As a doctor, the Premier must know – and I'm sure he does know that when it comes to health care, the anxiety for people with health care and their health care issues is paramount to anything that goes on in life.

We can argue here in this House but once we hear someone is sick, once we hear someone has a medical issue, we all come together because that's paramount, our health. But on the West Coast, for some ungodly reason, we refuse to help out people. Even the officials from the department were out and they spoke to the Chamber of Commerce and one of the quotes that they made is that we got issues with the emergency rooms. We do, but here's a chance to help out people.

So I'll say to the minister: Give me a logical reason why it can't be done. I'll say to the Premier: Give me a logical reason why it can't be done. I'll say to the Deputy Premier: Give me a logical reason. You're touting all the time: Look what we're doing for seniors. Here's what we're not doing for seniors, and we could do it.

Do you know how long it would take to allow nurse practitioners to bill patients? However long it takes you to sign your name, that's it. It can be done.

AN HON. MEMBER: They don't want it.

E. JOYCE: Who don't want it?

AN HON. MEMBER: Unions.

E. JOYCE: Unions? Listen, let me tell you something. You're talking to the wrong union people if you think that nurse practitioners are saying to you: Don't let us bill the people.

I'll tell you what I'll do, Minister.

SPEAKER: Order, please!

Address the Chair, please.

E. JOYCE: Pardon?

SPEAKER: Address the Chair.

E. JOYCE: I'll tell you, Speaker, what I'll do for the minister. How's that?

SPEAKER: Thank you.

E. JOYCE: I'll bring you out and meet the president of the nurse practitioners and I'll let him tell you, to your face, that they want it. Let me tell you.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible.)

E. JOYCE: I can't hear what you're saying.

SPEAKER: Order, please!

E. JOYCE: I can't hear what you're saying.

AN HON. MEMBER: He resigned from the association.

E. JOYCE: He might have resigned, but I'll bring you out to the people who have the business set-up. I'll bring you out.

I'll even tell you something better. I'll bring you out to the emergency department and watch the people go through in the nighttime who can't afford to go to nurse practitioners and let you make the decision.

I can tell you, from my understanding, they want it. They want it done. So I don't know who you're talking to, but I can tell you, it is not the ones who are dealing with the residents on the West Coast, I can assure you that.

Speaker, I'll tell the minister, I'll bring you out to the emergency department, if you don't think it's in a crisis; I'll bring you out and introduce you to the nurse practitioners, if you don't think that they're filling a good role. I'll bring you out and you ask them to their face: Should we be billing the government? I can assure you they'll say yes.

I'll bring you out to meet the seniors who can't afford to go there. That's what I'll do, Minister. If you think that this is something that someone might not want it. Make the decision to help the people on the West Coast. I'll say it again, and I'll keep repeating it every chance I get, the emergency department in Corner Brook is in a crisis – a crisis, bar none. If you want to hear the stories that I hear and get the emails that I know the Minister Responsible for Indigenous Affairs and Reconciliation gets, the Premier gets and the Member for Corner Brook gets, they know it. I can assure you they know it.

I'll say again, I'll offer the Minister of Health and Community Services to come out and meet the people who are directly involved, the people who are supplying the services nighttime and on the weekends, I'll bring you out and meet them. I'll show you the services that they're providing, that people now have to shy away from because they can't afford it. They got to get their prescriptions filled. They can't afford it. They just can't afford it. I can't say it any plainer.

What we're doing is we're making everybody herd into the emergency department where there are people on stretchers. In the nighttime, people are put in closets, moving the brooms, putting them in the closets. People are bringing their own chairs and blankets – bringing their own chairs and blankets – to lie on the floor. I just don't know why government is doing this. I don't know why government doesn't allow people to have the best services they can have in Western Newfoundland.

I say to the minister and I say to the government, even if you put it in place now, until you set a ceiling of a number of family doctors that we got on the West Coast, then cancel it, that's fine. But right now, I know of three doctors who left the West Coast, family practitioners – three. That's what I know. There's a fourth one, sorry, four that I know. Where is that void going? It's going to the emergency department. That's where it's going. That's exactly where it's going.

There's one doctor out there in Corner Brook who sees, I think, 50 patients a day. Many of the people go there because they can't afford to go see a nurse practitioner. You may need to see them three or four times because of blood work. Once you get the prescription, you may need a follow-up to see if it's working.

Do you know what they have to do? I give the doctor credit for doing this, by the way. They got to line up starting at 6 in the morning, line up outdoors. Hopefully, they'll be one of the 50 that's going to be on the list to be seen today. That's what they do. I know people who stand up outside starting 6 in the morning. Hopefully, they're going to see a doctor because they've got no other way. They got nothing else.

Seniors standing up outside. If it's raining, hopefully you got a good umbrella or a good rainsuit. If it's snowing, hopefully you got a good winter coat on. That's what's happening. That's real, Minister. That's real on the West Coast.

Here again, we've got an opportunity to alleviate some of that but we're not doing it. We all here swore an oath that we're going to stand up and we're going to do the best we can for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. I'm sure every person in this room has got the intent to do that, I'm sure of that, but for some reason, once we get into the part of government, all of a sudden, we can't make that decision or we don't want to make the decision or feel that there's wrong information coming to them.

There are people actually suffering. There are people lining up at 6 in the morning. Name one person in this room, right now, out of the 40 of us, name one person in the room who had to line up at 6 in the morning to wait until the door is open at 8. Name one. None of us experienced it. None of us experienced it, but it's real. It's happening out there. It is real.

So we have to do something and we have to build as a legislator to do it. My role is to bring this up. The government's role is to fix it. It's an easy fix. I'll say to the minister – I'm not sure, understanding that they don't want it – they don't want it.

Well, let me tell you. I don't agree with that. I really don't, but I can tell you one thing. Here's the deal, I can tell you, I'll stand up against any union whatsoever, I'll be out front and centre, any union whatsoever who does not allow something like the nurse practitioners to bill government so they can alleviate the concerns and the health care of people, I'll go front and centre with you. You won't have to stand up alone against any of that. I'll be with you.

I'll be out in front because the people need it, and to say that we can't make the decision. We can. We can. I can assure you I do not know one legislator in this room here today that would have the courage to go to the seniors and say: I'm not going to stand up for you today. They don't want it so you stand in the rain at 6 in the morning and hopefully you'll get in or go for 25 hours at the emergency and stay there.

Who wouldn't do that for their constituent? Who wouldn't stand up against whoever wants to stop that? Who would it be? You know who it would be? No one. I can tell you I am sure you will get everybody in this room to support that if you allow the nurse practitioners to bill government to take the pressure off the seniors and take the pressure off the emergency room.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SPEAKER: Seeing no other speakers, if the Minister of Health and Community Service speaks now, he will close the debate.

The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

J. HOGAN: Thank you, Speaker.

Thanks to the Members for CBS, Lab West and Humber - Bay of Islands for commenting here during second reading on this.

We can talk about nurse practitioners and all nurses in this province, really, because they're so important. I was happy to attend the convention for RNU at some point this week and just say what I said to them is that nurses are the heartbeat of the health care system in Newfoundland and Labrador.

I did tell them, of course, there are some bumps along the road here in health care, and they've had to face some bumps as well, but we're working really hard to smooth the bumps now and for the future because we need nurses – all nurses.

This one regulator, which is what we're talking about today, that's one thing. That's about the regulation of the profession but, really, the general public, what they care about is getting good, quality health care. That includes from doctors and other allied health professionals but, front and centre, are nurses, front-line workers. I want to thank them right now for everything that they do throughout the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

J. HOGAN: On the issue of nurse practitioners, it's been raised in this House before. Just to let everyone know, there's an ongoing survey with nurse practitioners being done in conjunction with the department and the RNU, just to better understand the service delivery models that they want.

All I can tell the Member for Humber - Bay of Island is that I've met with the president of the RNU and heard her opinions and expressed her position on behalf of her union, and that's what I've talked about here in the House as well.

Certainly everyone is free to their opinion and to debate that about how health care service should be delivered in this province. I talk to family physicians all the time about what model works. Is it blended capitation? Is it fee-for-service? Is it salaried physicians? People want different things. What we need to do now, going forward and into the future, as we're modernizing health care, is to listen to people who want flexibility in how they work and how they live and how they deliver health care to Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. It's very important for us to listen and not to dictate models to people.

We have to listen to the people who are in the system, the people who are delivering health care and the people who know best how they want to live their lives and how they want to manage things and how they want to deliver health care in this province.

With said, Speaker, I just want to thank the Member for CBS, in particular, for his comments. This bill talks about doing things in the public interest and, believe it or not, despite the House the last couple of days, comments like he said today, I think we are all here for what's in the public interest for everyone in Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

J. HOGAN: I think it's okay to get heated in here, and it happens, and we all get heated, but it's okay to take a breath and say let's get it right; let's ask the questions; let's answer the questions.

To be honest with you, I went back and read Hansard and during my back and forth with the Member yesterday, I think he was frustrated I wasn't answering the questions. Do you know what? I didn't hear him. I went back and read them this morning, and I wasn't actually hearing the questions he was asking. So that's one of the reasons I wasn't answering him. It was loud in here yesterday, Speaker, if you remember.

Having said all that, I appreciate the comments, I look forward to Committee. The last thing I'll say before Committee, Speaker, Happy Birthday to you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

J. HOGAN: And Happy Birthday to the Member for the District of Cape St. Francis.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: Thank you very much.

Is the House ready for the question?

The motion is that Bill 87 be now read a second time.

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

All those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

SPEAKER: All those against, 'nay.'

Motion carried.

CLERK: A bill,

An Act Respecting Licensed Practical Nurses, Registered Nurses, Registered Psychiatric Nurses and Nurse Practitioners. (Bill 87)

SPEAKER: This bill has now been read a second time.

When shall the said bill be referred to a Committee of the Whole?

L. DEMPSTER: Now.

SPEAKER: Now.

On motion, a bill, “An Act Respecting Licensed Practical Nurses, Registered Nurses, Registered Psychiatric Nurses and Nurse Practitioners,” read a second time, ordered referred to a Committee of the Whole House presently, by leave. (Bill 87)

SPEAKER: The hon. the Deputy Government House Leader.

L. DEMPSTER: Thank you, Speaker.

I move that this House do now resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole to consider Bill 87.

SPEAKER: Seconder?

L. DEMPSTER: Seconded by the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that I do now leave the Chair for the House to resolve itself into Committee of the Whole to consider Bill 87.

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

All those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

SPEAKER: All those against, 'nay.'

Motion carried.

On motion, that the House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole, the Speaker left the Chair.

Committee of the Whole

CHAIR (Trimper): Order, please!

We are now considering Bill 87,

An Act Respecting Licensed Practical Nurses, Registered Nurses, Registered Psychiatric Nurses and Nurse Practitioners.

A bill, “An Act Respecting Licensed Practical Nurses, Registered Nurses, Registered Psychiatric Nurses and Nurse Practitioners.” (Bill 87)

CLERK: Clause 1.

CHAIR: Shall clause 1 carry?

The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

J. BROWN: Thank you, Chair.

I'll just ask a question to the minister.

Can you tell us what was found in the cross-jurisdictional scan when he looked at British Columbia, Ontario, Nova Scotia when doing this merger?

CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Health and Community Services.

J. HOGAN: There is a move, I think, across the country to fewer regulators for health professionals. So they would've made the move to fewer regulators, like we are doing here right now. And we would've certainly looked at their provisions in terms of composition of boards and things like that to make sure that our governance structure is in line with best practices for governance across the country.

CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

J. BROWN: Thank you.

Can you tell us with the consultation with the groups what kind of consultations were done with the soon-to-be former regulators, but also the different unions that represent these individual professions?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

J. HOGAN: Obviously, the regulators came to the department. Through consultation with them, they would have consulted in turn with the Registered Nurses' Union, CUPE and NAPE. They advised verbally with me, and by written correspondence to the former minister, that everyone is on board with this move.

CHAIR: The Member for Labrador West.

J. BROWN: Thank you.

Can you let me know if any elements of the bill will lead to more nurses practising in the public system and how we will measure the facilitation of this, like the efficiency of this move?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

J. HOGAN: No, so this wouldn't necessarily – well, it wouldn't. The purpose is not to bring more nurses into the profession, except, obviously, registered psychiatric nurses will now be regulated, but it's the same regulatory scheme. It's not changing anything, other than just moving it from two to one.

CHAIR: The Member for Labrador West.

J. BROWN: Given that this will now be the province's largest regulator of a health profession, with the merger, will there be more resources being made available to this new regulatory body to help with the workload as it's going to be now, over 10,000 people into one body?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

J. HOGAN: No government resources go into either of the regulators now and won't, obviously, once it's a single regulator.

CHAIR: The Member for Labrador West.

J. BROWN: What rules would be in place to ensure that the proportion representation between all four different nursing groups will be represented on the board?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

J. HOGAN: Just to be clear on the last question, though, it obviously costs money to run things. They're self-regulated and self-funded through fees as well.

In response to the second question, that composition will be set out in bylaws.

CHAIR: The Member for Labrador West.

J. BROWN: Can you explain the purpose of

section 5(2)? I believe it has to do with separating the advocacy and government's functions of the college.

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

J. HOGAN: So that is to reflect best governance practices. Persons employed or holding positions with unions or advocacy groups that promote the interests of nurses are ineligible to be members of the board. This is a new provision, not only for this regulator, but for health profession statutes in our province.

Similar provisions do exist in legislation in other provinces. It was added in response to consultation with the colleges. As I said, it does reflect best practices to avoid any conflict between the roles of a licensing body and an advocacy association.

CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

J. BROWN: Thank you.

What is the current practice regarding appropriate notice?

J. HOGAN: Can you just clarify notice, notice for what?

J. BROWN: Under clause

section 25(2), it gives notice of a dismissal to the complainant but not the respondent. Why is that and what is the current practice regarding appropriate notice?

CHAIR: Order, please!

I need the (inaudible) a little attention.

Thank you.

The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

J. HOGAN: Go again.

J. BROWN: Go again. Okay.

So under

section 25(2), which gives notice of a dismissal to the complainant but not the respondent. What is that and, I guess, what would be the current practice regarding an appropriate notice?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

J. HOGAN: Sorry, I just want to be clear if you're asking – the notice is given to the respondent. The respondent is a party. Obviously, you're notified if there's an allegation made against you and if dismissed, in this case, the respondent is advised of the decision.

J. BROWN: (Inaudible) notice, I guess.

J. HOGAN: Yes, and the complainant would get notice as well. Both parties to the process, I guess, are advised of the result.

CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

J. BROWN:

Section 31(10) deals with publishing decisions or orders in a database or repository. Which one would this refer to?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

J. HOGAN: Sorry, I'm going to need you to say the clause again.

J. BROWN: Thirty-one.

J. HOGAN: Right now those decisions would be filed under what's called CanLII. If you're familiar with CanLII, it's an online database for court decisions and other adjudication tribunal decisions throughout the country.

CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

J. BROWN: And last one.

Section 40(3)(

a) deals explicitly with patient records. Subsection (8) specifies that all records dealing with the quality assurance program or review or order are confidential. Does this provide adequate guidance on how to protect personal information in these cases?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

J. HOGAN: Sorry, I'm going to need you to say the

section again.

CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

J. BROWN:

Section 40(3).

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

J. HOGAN: Yeah, this wouldn't be a change from any of the previous regulators, if that is the question, information is disclosed as necessary just to do the review.

CHAIR: Any further speakers to this bill?

Shall the motion carry?

All those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: Carried.

On motion, clause 1 carried.

CLERK: Clauses 2 through 86 inclusive.

CHAIR: Shall clauses 2 through 86 inclusive carry?

All those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: Carried.

On motion, clauses 2 through 86 carried.

Be it enacted by the Lieutenant Governor and House of Assembly in Legislative Session convened, as follows.

CHAIR: Shall the enacting clause carry?

All those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

On motion, enacting clause carried.

CLERK: A bill,

An Act Respecting Licensed Practical Nurses, Registered Nurses, Registered Psychiatric Nurses and Nurse Practitioners. (Bill 87)

CHAIR: Shall the title carry?

All those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, 'nay.'

The title is carried.

On motion, title carried.

CHAIR: Shall I report Bill 87 carried without amendment?

All those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

Motion, that the Committee report having passed the bill without amendment, carried.

CHAIR: The hon. the Deputy Government House Leader.

L. DEMPSTER: Thank you, Chair.

I move the Committee rise and report Bill 87 carried without amendment, and it is seconded by the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs.

CHAIR: It is moved and seconded that the Committee do rise and report Bill 87 carried without amendment.

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

All those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

Thank you very much.

On motion, that the Committee rise, report progress and ask leave to sit again, the Speaker returned to the Chair.

SPEAKER (Bennett): Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Lake Melville and Chair of the Committee of the Whole.

P. TRIMPER: Thank you, Speaker.

The Committee of the Whole have considered the matters referred to them and have directed me to report Bill 87,

An Act Respecting Licensed Practical Nurses, Registered Nurses, Registered Psychiatric Nurses and Nurse Practitioners, carried without amendment.

SPEAKER: The Chair of the Committee of the Whole reports that the Committee have considered the matters to them referred and have directed him to report that Bill 87 carried without amendment.

When shall the report be received?

J. HOGAN: Now.

SPEAKER: Now.

When shall the bill be read a third time?

J. HOGAN: Tomorrow.

SPEAKER: Tomorrow.

On motion, report received and adopted. Bill ordered read a third time on tomorrow.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

J. HOGAN: Speaker, I call from the Order Paper, Order 2.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

J. HOGAN: Speaker, I move, seconded by the Deputy Premier, that

An Act Respecting the Amalgamation of Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro-Electric Corporation and Nalcor Energy, Bill 33, be now read a third time.

SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that Bill 33 be now read a third time.

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

All those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

SPEAKER: All those against, 'nay.'

Motion carried.

CLERK: A bill,

An Act Respecting the Amalgamation of Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro-Electric Corporation and Nalcor Energy. (Bill 33)

SPEAKER: This bill has now been read a third time and it's ordered the bill do pass and its title be as on the Order Paper.

On motion, a bill, “An Act Respecting the Amalgamation of Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro-Electric Corporation and Nalcor Energy,” read a third time, ordered passed and its title be as on the Order Paper. (Bill 33)

SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

J. HOGAN: I call from the Order Paper, Order 3.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

J. HOGAN: Speaker, I move, seconded by the Deputy Government House Leader, that

An Act to Amend the Medical Act, 2011 No. 2, Bill 83, be now read a third time.

SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that Bill 83 be read a third time.

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

All those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

SPEAKER: All those against, 'nay.'

Motion carried.

CLERK: A bill,

An Act to Amend the Medical Act, 2011 No. 2. (Bill 83)

SPEAKER: This bill has now been read a third time and it is ordered the bill do pass and its title be as on the Order Paper.

On motion, a bill, “An Act to Amend the Medical Act, 2011 No. 2,” read a third time, ordered passed and its title be as on the Order Paper. (Bill 83)

SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

J. HOGAN: I call from the Order Paper, Order 4.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

J. HOGAN: Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs, that

An Act to Amend the Opioid Damages and Health Care Costs Recovery Act, Bill 86, be now read a third time.

SPEAKER: It is now moved and seconded that Bill 86 be read a third time.

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

All those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

SPEAKER: All those against, 'nay.'

Motion carried.

CLERK: A bill,

An Act to Amend the Opioid Damages and Health Care Costs Recovery Act. (Bill 86)

SPEAKER: This bill has now been read a third time and it is ordered the bill do pass and its title be as on the Order Paper.

On motion, a bill, “Act to Amend the Opioid Damages and Health Care Costs Recovery Act,” read a third time, ordered passed and its title be as on the Order Paper. (Bill 86)

SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

J. HOGAN: Speaker, I call from the Order Paper, Order 5.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

J. HOGAN: Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure, that

An Act to Amend the Engineers and Geoscientists Act, 2008, Bill 92, be now read a third time.

SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that Bill 92 be read a third time.

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

All those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

SPEAKER: All those against, 'nay.'

Motion carried.

CLERK: A bill,

An Act to Amend the Engineers and Geoscientists Act, 2008. (Bill 92)

SPEAKER: This bill has now been read a third time and it is ordered that the bill do pass and its title be as on the Order Paper.

On motion, a bill, “An Act to Amend the Engineers and Geoscientists Act, 2008,” read a third time, ordered passed and its title be as on the Order Paper. (Bill 92)

SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

J. HOGAN: Speaker, I call from the Order Paper, Order 6.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

J. HOGAN: Speaker, I moved, seconded by the Minister of Justice and Public Safety, that

An Act Respecting the Management of Law Enforcement Articles, Uniforms, Vehicle Markings and Vehicle Equipment, Bill 94, be now read a third time.

SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that Bill 94 be read a third time.

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

All those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

SPEAKER: All those against, 'nay.'

Motion carried.

CLERK: A bill,

An Act Respecting the Management of Law Enforcement Articles, Uniforms, Vehicle Markings and Vehicle Equipment. (Bill 94)

SPEAKER: This bill has now been read a third time and it's ordered that the bill do pass and its title be as on the Order Paper.

On motion, a bill, “An Act Respecting the Management of Law Enforcement Articles, Uniforms, Vehicle Markings and Vehicle Equipment,” read a third time, ordered passed and its title be as on the Order Paper. (Bill 94)

SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

J. HOGAN: Thank you, Speaker.

I move, seconded by the Minister of DGSNL, that this House do now recess.

SPEAKER: This House do stand in recess until 2 this afternoon.

Recess

The House resumed at 2 p.m.

SPEAKER (Bennett): Order, please!

Admit strangers.

Before we begin this afternoon, I'd like to welcome several people in the public galleries. First of all, Janie Lane who is recognized this afternoon in a Member's statement. She is joined by Rona Spracklin, also Doreen Lane, Joseph Lane and Tammy Spracklin.

Welcome.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: Also here today for a Member's statement, I'd like to welcome the Rocky Isle Singers.

Welcome.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: I'd also like to recognize former MHA and leader of the NDP, Ms. Lorraine Michael.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: Finally, welcome to the Ocean Ranger families who are here today for a private Member's resolution.

Welcome, everyone.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Terra Nova.

L. PARROTT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Yesterday after Question Period, there was a bit of a heated debate, and I made some comments that were uncalled for. At that time, the Minister of Finance stood on a point of order and she asked me to withdraw my comments and, at that time, I did.

Upon some reflection last night, I think that just to withdraw the comments doesn't go far enough and I offer my sincere and unequivocal apologies to the Minister of Immigration, Population Growth and Skills.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

K. HOWELL: Speaker, I, too, stand on a point of order that was raised this morning and yesterday in debate.

There was some ambiguity about some of the comments that I made, and I made them in haste after the Leader of the Third Party said that the Department of Education was drowning children. I know that he has since apologized for that, withdrawn that comment, and I, too, wish to withdraw my comment and make it unequivocally clear that I was not referencing children, staff or teachers in our school system when I made that comment in haste yesterday.

SPEAKER: Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Statements by Members

SPEAKER: Today we'll hear statements from the hon. Members for the Districts of Torngat Mountains, Bonavista, Cape St. Francis, Ferryland and Harbour Main.

The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains.

L. EVANS: Thank you, Speaker.

Nain's Ian Dicker and Makkovik's Jacob Dyson are two Nunatsiavut students making history, competing their way through the 2025 Canada Games volleyball selection process on pure raw talent.

Ian was 14 when he attended his first high school sports meet. His team winning the volleyball three years in a row, making TeamNL twice, and too many accomplishments to list off, Ian's most recent was captaining his Jens Haven Huskies to volleyball gold at regionals. The first time a North Coast team will compete in the 4A provincials since 1998 – wow – playing the biggest schools in the province, his mother says. Nain is a very small school; 4A is an accomplishment. Also, this weekend he will receive the national Tom Longboat award – raw talent, Speaker.

Jacob was 13 when he made Makkovik's Wolverines and was off to his first high school sports meet. Too many accomplishments to list off, he, too, made TeamNL. This summer at the Canada Volleyball Cup tournament in Calgary, he was named Team NL's MVP – raw talent.

Armed with a Ski-Doo and a chainsaw, 16-year-old Jacob not only cuts firewood for his family, but he cuts to fundraise to pay for travel costs and registration for attending TeamNL's tryouts.

These are kind, decent young men. Win or lose, they make us proud every day.

Thank you, Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista.

C. PARDY: Speaker, Mark Gray, an educator in Bonavista, moonlights as a photographer who captures many beautiful, renowned images of the Bonavista area.

In early November of this year, Mark was informed that one of his photos will be included in the upcoming issue of Canadian Geographic. He has captured numerous images from Cape Bonavista Lighthouse during sunset and sunrise, icebergs off our shores, photogenic puffins from a distance, fishing vessels, foxes on the Cape, et cetera.

In October of this year, I attended a wedding in Seal Cove where a resident of St. John's stated that during a visit to Bonavista, he happened to see Mark down at the Cape, lowered his window and shouted out: Hi Mark! Keep up the great work.

His growing followers, like the aforementioned gentleman, will agree that Mark's eye for the elements that frame a picture exquisitely are all checked before he snaps. He has even become one of the attractions of the scenic District of Bonavista as his outstanding collection of photographs promotes the area locally, nationally and internationally.

I ask Members of the 50th House of Assembly to join me in recognizing Mark Gray of Bonavista for his artistic promotion of our district and province through his photography.

S OME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis.

J. WALL: Speaker, the Rocky Isle Singers are a community engaged ensemble that quickly became a cornerstone of m