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June 17, 2019

GOVERNMENT SERVICES COMMITTEE

Pursuant to Standing Order 68,

Helen Conway Ottenheimer,

MHA for Harbour Main ,

substitutes for Barry Petten, MHA for Conception Bay South.

Pursuant to Standing Order 68, Siobhan Coady, MHA for St. John's West,

substitutes for Elvis Loveless, MHA for Fortune Bay - Cape La Hune, for a

portion of the meeting

Pursuant to Standing Order 68, Ches Crosbie, MHA for Windsor Lake, substitutes

for Loyola O'Driscoll, MHA for Ferryland.

Pursuant to Standing Order 68, Brian Warr, MHA for Baie Verte - Green Bay,

substitutes for Derrick Bragg, MHA for Fogo Island - Cape Freels.

The Committee met at 9 a.m. in the Assembly Chamber.

CHAIR (Bennett):

Good morning, everyone.

We are

going to get started shortly, so I'd like to welcome everyone this morning. I

guess everybody is fairly familiar with the process. We are going to start off

by introducing Members of the Committee and staff members, followed by members

of the Executive Council introductions. Then minister has 15 munities to speak,

followed by the person in the Opposition with 15 minutes. And then we will

follow with 10 minutes after.

Before

we get started, I would like to ask for motion to accept the minutes of the

Government Services Committee meeting of June 12 for the Department of

Transportation and Works.

MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:

So moved.

CHAIR:

So moved by Ms. Conway

Ottenheimer.

All

those in favour?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

Opposed?

Carried.

motion, minutes adopted as circulated.

CHAIR:

Under normal process,

independent Members are also given opportunity to ask questions, with the

approval of the Committee. Rather than asking after each line, is everyone in

favour to give the independent Members some time to ask questions after each

line item?

All

those in favour?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

Opposed?

Okay.

we'll start off now with introductions.

Ms.

Coffin, do you mind going first?

Ms. Coffin:

T hank

you.

It's

Alison Coffin. I am the MHA for St. John's East - Quidi Vidi.

MR. MORGAN:

Ivan Morgan, Researcher, NDP

caucus.

MR. LANE:

Paul Lane, MHA, Mount Pearl - Southlands.

MS. DRODGE:

Megan Drodge, Researcher

with the Official Opposition caucus.

MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:

Helen Conway

Ottenheimer for Harbour Main District.

MS. EVANS:

Lela Evans, Torngat

Mountains District.

MR. CROSBIE:

Ches Crosbie, Windsor Lake, Leader of the Opposition.

MS. TUBRETT:

Denise Tubrett, Deputy Chief of Staff with the Official Opposition Office.

MS. STOODLEY:

Sarah Stoodley, MHA for Mount Scio.

MR. WARR:

Brian Warr, MHA, Baie Verte - Green Bay.

MS. COADY:

Siobhan Coady, MHA, St. John's West.

MS. ROSS:

Linda Ross, Deputy Minister, Office for the Status of Women.

MS. HALEY:

Carol Anne Haley, Minister for the Status of Women and MHA for Burin - Grand

Bank.

MS. TRICKETT:

Wanda Trickett, Departmental Controller.

MS. HOLLETT:

Nancy Hollett, Director of Communications for the Office for the Status of

Women.

MS. LANE:

Leanne Lane, Senior Program and Policy Development Specialist with the Office

for the Status of Women.

MR. GEORGE:

Eric George, Executive Assistant to Minister Haley.

MS. ELLIOTT:

Susan Elliott, Executive Assistant to Minister Osborne.

CHAIR:

Just for the purpose of Hansard , we

ask that when you go to speak, make sure your light is on and then first say

your name.

CLERK (Murphy):

Subhead 2.7.01.

CHAIR:

Minister, we will let you

open up with opening remarks.

MS. HALEY:

Good morning, everyone and thank you all for being here to participate in the

Estimates for the Office of the Status of Women. You'll have to excuse my voice;

I'm nursing a very bad cold. This is new for me on this side, doing it myself as

minister. I've been over there and I've sat in the Chair there, so this morning

this is a little different for me, and I guess the majority of people are new

here as well.

I'll

start by saying that I'm very proud of the work my office has undertaken in the

last 12 months to advance the social, economic, cultural and legal status of the

women in Newfoundland and Labrador. On November 9, 2018, the Premier announced

Newfoundland and Labrador's first stand-alone Minister Responsible for the

Status of Women, and on February 27, 2019, a deepened mandate for my office was

created. Priorities include implementation of an all-of-government approach to

Gender-based Analysis Plus, a strengthened focus on the prevention of

gender-based violence and focus promotion of women in leadership roles.

I'll

take a few minutes to highlight some of the great work that the office has

undertaken this past year in each of these areas. Although our government has

been utilizing gender-based analysis for a number of years, implementation of an

all-of-government approach ensures policies, programs, services, legislation and

budgets will be responsive to the needs of women in our province from the very

beginning of the policy development process.

The

office is working diligently with Cabinet, executive members, directors, policy

analysts and communications to support the application of Gender-Based Analysis

Plus throughout the government decision-making process. I am pleased to report

that the office is currently designing Newfoundland and Labrador-specific

Gender-based Analysis Plus training tools to be used in concert with the federal

government Gender-based Analysis Plus online training tool.

addition, the office has commenced targeted and customized Gender-based Analysis

Plus training with various departments across government. We look forward to

continuing our work in this area to ensure women in our province are not

negatively impacted by government decisions.

March, I had the privilege of representing the province at the 63rd session of

the United Nations Commission on the Status of Women in New York, reconfirming

the provincial government's investment and commitment to gender equality and the

health, rights and well-being of women and girls in our province. One such

initiative of the Office for the Status of Women that helps us move closer to

the realization of this commitment is the ongoing work of the Violence

Prevention Initiative. Working collaboratively with provincial government

departments and the community stakeholders to find long-term, systemic solutions

to violence against those most at risk in our society is essential to the growth

and progress of our province.

This

past year marked the final year of our violence prevention action plan,

Working Together for Violence-Free

Communities . The office is currently exploring ways to enhance future

provincial violence prevention efforts to ensure that diverse perspectives,

needs and concerns are heard and incorporated into provincial violence

prevention efforts moving forward. Collaboration amongst government, community,

academia, business, unions and persons with lived experience is essential to

advance violence prevention work in our province.

Despite

the many advances we have collectively made over the past year, many barriers

still exist to women's equal participation in both the private and public

spheres. The harsh reality is that women remain under-represented in leadership

roles in Newfoundland and Labrador, which means that the province is losing out

on valuable insights, talents, expertise and experience. Women deserve to live

in a society where barriers to advancement are eliminated and women have equal

opportunity to succeed. Encouraging and supporting women to pursue leadership

opportunities in politics, business, community service and in any other field in

which they are interested is a high priority of the provincial government.

February, our provincial government hosted a women's leadership conference to

facilitate knowledge sharing and mentorship opportunities with women leaders.

The conference was attended by 350 people and served as a springboard to launch

future women's leadership initiatives across the province.

passed, Budget 2019 allows for the

continuation of women's leadership initiatives and activities across the

province. The Office for the Status of Women will be working collaboratively

with community partners and women's equality-seeking organizations to identify

regionally and culturally specific needs to ensure women and girls have

available opportunities, tools and resources to help achieve their goals and

reach their full potential.

Our

government continues to recognize the importance of investing in community

organizations that work hard to create a safer and equitable province for our

residents. If passed, Budget 2019

will support continued funding for the Status of Women Councils and Violence

Prevention Newfoundland and Labrador organizations across the province, the

Provincial Advisory Council on the Status of Women, the Newfoundland Aboriginal

Women's Network, the Multicultural Women's Organization of Newfoundland and

Labrador, the Newfoundland and Labrador Sexual Assault Crisis and Prevention

Centre, the Safe Harbour Outreach program, and the Intimate Partner Violence

Prevention Units with the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary and the Royal Canadian

Mounted Police.

I am

pleased to inform you that if passed

Budget 2019 will provide first-time funding to the Coalition Against the

Sexual Exploitation of Youth to employ a full-time support worker and core

operational funding for the establishment of the province's ninth Status of

Women Council on the Northern Peninsula. Through balancing priorities and

implementing gender-based policies, programs, services, legislation and budgets,

our government demonstrates its commitment to the social, economic, cultural and

legal advancement of all women and girls in this province.

As I

stated earlier, I am proud of the work accomplished by the Office for the Status

of Women over the past fiscal year and look very much forward to continue

collaboration and partnerships with key community and governmental stakeholders

to achieve our collective goal: Advancing the social, economic, cultural and

legal status of all women in Newfoundland and Labrador.

Thank

you.

CHAIR:

Thank you, Minister.

MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:

Before I address the specific 2.7.01 heading, I would like to ask a few general

questions first.

Minister, how many or what percentage of the recommendations from the 2015

Violence Prevention Initiative Action Plan have been implemented?

MS. HALEY:

It's about 96 per cent.

MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:

You referenced the Women's Leadership conference which occurred last year. What

was the final cost of that, Minister?

MS. HALEY:

It was $49,700, somewhere around there, give or take a few dollars.

MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:

Okay. Thank you.

MS. HALEY:

That included consultations prior to the conference.

MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:

You indicated that there are plans to have that Women's Leadership conference,

but are there any specific plans to host another conference this year?

MS. HALEY:

Not here in the city of St. John's. We're planning to take it around the

province and to Labrador, of course.

MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:

Will you be incorporating some of the lessons learned from last year's

conference?

MS. HALEY:

Absolutely.

MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:

Specifically, what lessons would you think that would be?

MS. HALEY:

I think participation and inclusion is very important, that we take a closer

look at it next time.

MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:

Okay. Thank you.

MS. HALEY:

Of course, the feedback that we got from the last time, we'll take that into

consideration as well.

MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:

Will all female MHAs be invited to this conference?

MS. HALEY:

Yes.

MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:

Okay, great. I look forward to that.

The Way Forward ,

Minister, talks about multi-year grant commitments. Can you please outline which

multi-year grants commitments are in place in your department?

MS. HALEY:

The women's centres get multi-year grants, isn't it – just one moment please.

Sorry. Leanne will take this question.

MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:

Okay. Thank you.

MS. LANE:

The St. John's Status of Women Council and Mokami Status of Women Council are

participating in the pilot multi-year funding.

MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:

Getting back to the Violence Prevention Initiative Action Plan, I note from last

year that you had successfully implemented 96 per cent of the action plan. What

has been done this year? You've indicated just a few moments ago that the

number, the percentage was 96 as well.

MS. ROSS:

Yes, as you know, we're looking at developing a new Violence Prevention

Initiative. One of the key pieces that are a priority is to have collaboration

between key government departments and community stakeholders, because the one

thing that we do realize is that no one department or office is responsible for

ending violence.

What

happened is there has been a meeting convened of those stakeholders, from both

government and community, and the feedback from them was we need to look at the

consultations that have already happened, research that has already taken place

and to get a really close look at the statistics and some of the best practices

federally, but where we sit statistically within the province. To that end, that

piece of work is in progress right now.

The

committee will reconvene again in the not-too-distant future to then look at

that and look at where do we go from here in terms of the consultations, to look

at what the priorities should be in terms of the work that we do in the next

plan.

MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:

Can you please

give an update, Minister, on the Intimate Partner Violence prevention program?

Have all positions been filled, for example?

MS. ROSS:

Yes, they have. Both the RNC

and RCMP and the unit is very active.

MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:

Okay. Thank you.

Last

year in Estimates, the deputy minister, Linda, talked about partnering with the

St. John's Native Friendship Centre on a conference which would take about three

years to plan. Can you please give an update this year?

MS. ROSS:

I'd like to defer to Leanne

Lane, who leads on a lot of our work with the Indigenous –

MS. LANE:

The Office for the Status of

Women has historically provided monies for an Indigenous women's provincial

gathering. Last year and the year before, we transferred that money to the St.

John's Native Friendship Centre – currently now First Light – as they will now

be the organizing partner with us for the Provincial Indigenous Women's

Conference on a go-forward basis.

MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:

I have an

understanding that there is a committee of ministers who meet to tackle issues

of violence in the province. Can you please give an update on that, Minister?

MS. HALEY:

Yes, it is a committee that

I chair, and of course it's a number of ministers across various departments

across government. I know the Minister of Children, Seniors and Social

Development, the Minister of Justice and Public Safety, the Minister of Service

NL and the Minister of Health and Community Services sit on that board.

MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:

Okay.

How

often do you meet and where?

MS. ROSS:

My understanding from that committee is it is convened by various mechanisms,

not always necessarily by having all of the ministers come together, but working

on a one-on-one basis from what I understand. That will be happening with

Minister Haley as well.

MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:

Okay, thank you.

Just a

few more general questions: Can you give an update on the work which has been

taking place to support pay equity legislation in the province, Minister?

MS. HALEY:

Yes, sure.

Actually, my deputy minister, Linda Ross, who's sitting next to me, actually

chairs the committee on pay equity. I think the last meeting was on Thursday of

last week? Tuesday?

MS. ROSS:

Wednesday.

MS. HALEY:

Wednesday.

So, if

I could just defer this to Ms. Ross and she could provide an update from the

meeting.

MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:

Yes, thank you.

MS. ROSS:

Since I've come to the position – I haven't been here all that long, since the

middle of January – certainly this has been an issue we've been working on and

there have been a few meetings. We had one most recently on Wednesday.

We have

been looking and doing a jurisdictional scan of what was going on across the

country, and also looking closely at how it's being implemented on a

province-by-province basis. But one of the things that we realized is right now

we're at a point where we need to bring in more expertise. So we now have

reached out to others in government who can come to the table with us because we

want to really look at what it's going to mean for our own province and how to

move forward.

MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:

Yes, I

understand. Thank you.

Can you

give an update on the Indigenous Women in Mining project, Minister?

MS. LANE:

The Indigenous Women in Mining project is not a project that sits with the

Office for the Status of Women. Rather, it is a project that's actually run by

Temiskaming Native Women's Association in Northern Ontario. We have, over the

past couple of years, engaged on a committee with Temiskaming, and most recently

with NunatuKavut Community Council as well, as there is a project currently

funded by the former Status of Women Canada, now the Department for Women and

Gender Equality with the federal government.

We sit

on that steering committee with both NunatuKavut Community Council and

Temiskaming Native Women's Association. It was never a project that belonged to

the Office for the Status of Women. Rather, we've been a supporting department

in the development of projects that both have undertaken to apply for federal

monies to support that project being brought into Labrador.

MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:

So your role is

more of a supportive role.

MS. LANE:

Absolutely.

MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:

Okay, thank you.

In your

opening statement, Minister, you did reference the gender-based analysis. Can

you please describe the gender-based tool specifically, which is used to analyze

government policy, including this budget? So, in practical terms, how does this

tool really work?

MS. HALEY:

I don't have the specific

tool here with me. I know my colleague, the Minister of Natural Resources,

tabled this in the House, I believe, some time ago, but I can certainly get it

for you.

Right

now, the office is currently carrying out a training program right across

government. I think, to date, we have some 84 employees trained toward

Gender-based Analysis Plus.

MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:

Okay, thank you.

Minister, are you planning to host any women's economic round tables this year?

If so, where, and who will be on the invite list?

MS. LANE:

In the past, we've held economic round tables in St. John's and around the

province. We are currently in the process of hiring a new manager of economic

policy with the Office for the Status of Women. When that individual comes on

board, that individual will determine if round tables is, indeed, the way

forward for us, or if there is another mechanism of which is it that we can put

in place.

presume that that will be done through consultations with our partners, as it

has in the past, such as the Office to Advance Women Apprentices.

MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:

Okay, thank you.

And my

final general question is: Can the minister, please, give an overview of the

women's shelters in the province, and how does the demand of them match the

capacity they have, for example?

MS. ROSS:

Within your binder, you should have the information that actually gives you the

location or the name of each of the particular women's shelters.

MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:

I don't believe

we have the binder.

MS. ROSS:

Once you get your binder, sorry. This is very new to me, so I'm not sure what

you have in advance.

The

women's shelters, as you know, existed in a number of communities across the

province, including in St. John's, and they do a lot of front-line work and they

do advocacy work. Some of our women shelters also have attached to them

accommodation facilities where women stay on a somewhat temporary basis. They

are women who have a number of challenges.

The

kinds of supports that they provide differ from women's centre to women's

centre. Some of them are able to offer much more in the way of supports and

programming because they access other funding through, for example, the federal

government or other initiatives; but the kind of program they do varies,

everything from doing educational work in the schools on violence against women

and girls, about consent, doing front-line work with women who have difficultly

navigating systems, for example, around housing or social supports that they

require. So it does vary, but there are a lot of things they do have in common

but there are differences in them.

MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:

Okay, thank you.

What

happens, actually, when the women's shelters are full, when there is no

capacity?

MS. ROSS:

There are two types of women's shelters. The women's centres, which have some

housing with them, are for women who, as I said, have different challenges. The

other types of shelter that we have within the province are our transition

houses for women who are fleeing situations of violence.

There

are also additional types of shelters that are there, so with Stella's Circle,

for example – and these are not necessarily getting funding through our office

but from government. So there are particular shelters that women can go to

depending on, for example, their age, depending on whether or not they're

fleeing violence or other kinds of challenges that they have.

I hope

that answered your question.

MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:

Yes, thank you

very much.

Okay,

going to

section 2.7.01 under Minister's Office. The Minister's Office is new.

Minister, can you please give an explanation of how these budget numbers were

calculated?

MS. HALEY:

Linda.

MS. ROSS:

As you know, the minister was appointed, as she indicated in her speech, at the

beginning of November. So if you look in the column projected revised budget,

this is for a portion of the fiscal year since the minister came on and then of

course what you see is the budget projection for – it reflects the increase due

to the creation of the office. The notes are on the side. What you see in

2018-19 is only a portion of the fiscal year because the office was only in

existence with the minister for that short period of time.

MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:

Thank you.

CHAIR:

Your time has expired.

MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:

Okay, thanks.

CHAIR:

Ms. Coffin.

MS. COFFIN:

Thank you very much.

I would

like to thank everyone for taking the time to be here this morning and all the

hard work that I know goes into the preparation of these Estimates. So thank

you, everyone, for your participation in this process.

Let's

start with numbers first. I'm going to move on to Office for the Status of

Women, Salaries, I notice there's almost an extra $250,000 in Salaries in this

current Estimate compared to last years and there was a little bit of

underspending last year.

there an intention to have even more positions at the Office for the Status of

Women? If so, what are the nature and type of them?

MS. ROSS:

Well, the figure that you're

referring to reflects an increase from '18-'19 due to annualization, as the

notes indicate. We have a new communications director which we didn't have

before. There were some changes in terms of staffing within the office over the

past year, but we are in the process, right now, of hiring two new positions. As

my colleague indicated, we are looking for a manager for economic policy and

we're also looking for an additional position of policy analyst for our office.

MS. COFFIN:

Thank you.

Professional Services, I notice there's an extra $50,000 added in that. Is that

the RCMP Intimate Partner Violence prevention unit?

MS. ROSS:

As indicated, you'll see in

the notes that you received, that is an additional $50,000 for the gender-based

analysis work for our leadership initiatives and for violence prevention work.

MS. COFFIN:

Okay. So, the RCMP Intimate Partner Violence prevention unit – we are funding

this, yes?

MS. ROSS:

Yes, we are.

MS. COFFIN:

Where would we find that?

MS. ROSS:

Yeah, it's in that same one.

MS. COFFIN:

Yeah. It's under Professional Services, yes?

MS. ROSS:

Yes.

MS. COFFIN:

Okay, lovely. Thank you very much.

Can we

have an update on their activities?

MS. LANE:

We don't have that information here with us today but we can most definitely get

it for you this afternoon.

MS. COFFIN:

That'd be wonderful. Thank you very much.

The

additional funding that we're seeing in that line is for – I'm sorry, again?

MS. ROSS:

That is for the gender-based

analysis training –

MS. COFFIN:

Right, the gender-based analysis. Yes, thank you.

MS. ROSS:

– and some of the more

leadership work as well as violence prevention.

MS. COFFIN:

Excellent. Thank you.

Grants

and Subsidies, 2.7.02.10, I notice we're down by about $210,000. Was something

cut or an initiative cut?

MS. ROSS:

No. In point of fact, as you

recall, I spoke to the fact that some of the women's centres have a shelter

component to them. They were moved over to Newfoundland and Labrador Housing

with money. Plus, one of the other pieces in there is the establishment of –

should the budget pass – a new women's centre on the Northern Peninsula is

incorporated in there.

MS. COFFIN:

Okay.

MS. LANE:

So, no it wasn't, in fact, cut.

MS. COFFIN:

So there was a big chunk

that came out but then you added a little bit back in for the Northern

Peninsula?

MS. LANE:

Yes.

MS. COFFIN:

Okay.

Revenue, I noticed that revised from '18-'19 we got $2,200 in. Where does

revenue come from in the Office for the Status of Women?

MS. LANE:

The revenue that you're

seeing there is we provide grants to our Violence Prevention NL organizations.

One of the organizations was not staffed for a portion of the year so they had

revenue. They are allowed to keep 10 per cent of the funding which we provide.

The $2,200 there that was returned to us was over and above that 10 per cent of

their funding.

MS. COFFIN:

Lovely. Thank you.

Can we

have a list of all the organizations and amounts of grants in 2018-19 and

anticipated '19-'20, please?

MS. LANE:

Sure, I'll get that to you

today, Ms. Coffin.

MS. COFFIN:

Excellent.

Can you

also tell me which organizations now receive multi-year core funding?

MS. LANE:

We have two women's centres

that receive multi-year core funding: the St. John's Status of Women Council and

Mokami Status of Women Council.

MS. COFFIN:

Lovely. Thank you.

Let's

go to some general questions now. The violence prevention action plan, we had a

little bit of an overview but maybe you can get into a bit more detail on the

activities of the ministerial committee against addressing violence against

women and girls. Was that just meetings at this point or has anything been

established along the way?

MS. ROSS:

The ministerial committee,

as was indicated by Minister Haley, is made up of many ministers, and when I

spoke earlier about having an advisory committee that's made up of key

government departments, it basically is very similar. As we know, when you're

talking about violence it impacts all of these different departments.

When we

have had consultations with community partners, community stakeholders, one of

the things that always comes forward is if we're going to address violence we

must look at this department, that department and what within those departments

can be done or what is within their mandate that they're working on that is

going to help eradicate violence. This committee is basically to look at the

progress on that work. That's my understanding.

MS. COFFIN:

Can you give me an updated prevalence statistic? Do you have such a thing with

you; prevalence of violence, in particular, violence against women?

MS. ROSS:

Actually, I'm hoping that we can do that for you very shortly with the research

that I referenced earlier.

MS. COFFIN:

Excellent.

This is

related, I was just wondering how effective has the plan been, and what data is

being used to analyze that? Because we often have swings in violence and violent

incidents when we see recessions or we see depressed economic conditions,

especially people without jobs. So, as our economy has been slowing down and

we're seeing higher rates of insolvency, we're seeing higher rates of

unemployment, we're seeing just a general depressed economy, I'm just wondering

how effective this plan has been, and what data is being used to calculate that?

MS. ROSS:

I think one of the things that is challenging is to do a direct link between the

actual initiatives of the Violence Prevention Initiative and the statistical

data, because the statistical data that we work with is often what is reported

through a lot of our federal and some of our provincial statisticians.

As I

said, we are now looking at where the prevalence is, within which populations,

because one of the things that frequently happens is once something gets said,

it gets reiterated and we really need to ensure that when that happens that

we're working on evidence based, and we are actually working with the

statistics. So, as referenced, that piece of research is well under way right

now.

MS. COFFIN:

Okay. So you're saying you're hoping for data soon?

MS. ROSS:

Yes.

MS. COFFIN:

This is wonderful.

The

Aboriginal women's network and conference, can we have an update on their

activities, please?

MS. LANE:

The Office for the Status of Women funds has provided core funding to the

Newfoundland Aboriginal Women's Network for a number of years now. The violence

prevention Indigenous women's gathering was held in November of last year. There

is a great deal of work that's taking place right now and looking at violence

against women in Indigenous communities as well as mental health.

As I

said earlier, we provide a grant to First Light to help organize that conference

on the office's behalf, and we are currently working with the steering committee

that we have in place to organize this year's gathering. We're anticipating that

this year's gathering will either be held the end of October or the first week

of November this year.

MS. COFFIN:

Thank you.

What

gender-based analysis training was done in 2018 and what is planned for 2019?

MS. LANE:

Gender-based analysis training; we have done several sessions and we can

certainly get the departments and agencies that we've worked with in government

that we've trained in 2018-'19. We've really focused our attention on rolling

out that plan in this fiscal year. With additional monies that we've been

provided in Budget 2019 , should it be

passed, it will help us roll out those training sessions and certainly help us

develop those tools that we have in place right now, and further develop those

tools to develop Newfoundland and Labrador-specific training components.

We can

certainly get you a list of all of the departments and agencies trained to date

this past fiscal year and, currently, in the new part of this fiscal year.

MS. COFFIN:

Appreciate that. Thank you.

CHAIR:

Ms. Coffin, your time has expired. We'll get back to you shortly.

Any

other questions?

MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:

Yes, I have just three or four more final questions.

First

of all, this is under

section 2.7.02 under Salaries. In '18-'19 there was a

Salaries savings of $122,300. Can the minister please outline why that is the

case.

MS. HALEY:

That reflects savings from 2018-2019 budget as a result of some vacancies

throughout the year.

MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:

Okay, thank you.

Under

Purchased Services, what purchased services does this department use, Minister?

MS. TRICKETT:

Purchased Services for the office include some basic charges such as printing

charges, shredding and record storage. If there was a consultation held that

required meeting space, those type charges would be charged to Purchased

Services.

MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:

Okay, thank you.

I note

that there's a savings of $22,900 in the '19-'20 fiscal year. How are you

planning to save that money?

MS. TRICKETT:

There was money allocated in the budget associated with the Intimate Partner

Violence Initiative and that wasn't really representative of where the costs

were anticipated to be spent for '19-'20. All we've done is actually reprofiled

that money to other line objects across the office to better reflect where we

expect those expenditures to come in.

MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:

Okay. Thank you.

Finally, under Grants and Subsidies, I note that, Minister, you've indicated

that there will be a list provided – when my colleague asked – with respect to

the funding. Is this list the same year over year?

MS. ROSS:

There are core partners who are funded on an annual basis. As I indicated

previously, should the budget pass there will be a new one; there was also

mention in the minister's speech about should the budget pass, the Coalition

Against the Sexual Exploitation of Youth. We also have grants to Indigenous

women's anti-violence work. Indigenous women apply for those grants and use them

for particular programs. It varies, but it is often the same groups and the same

partners.

MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:

Okay, thank you.

What

are the criteria for determining who gets a grant?

MS. LANE:

In terms of our violence prevention NL organizations, they were part of the

Violence Prevention Initiative core funding plans when that plan first rolled

out back in the early 2000s. In terms of the eight women's centres, those have

historically also been funded by the Office for the Status of Women.

terms of any specific criteria that are looked at for additional organizations

that we fund, we basically have done – as Ms. Ross has indicated earlier, we're

working with all of our community organizations to determine where needs lie in

terms of violence prevention, economic security and leadership initiatives.

Based on the need that our province, our community organizations have identified

at a point in time that's needed for the women in our province in order to

advance status, that is what we have used to determine whether or not funding

has been provided.

MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:

Okay, thank you.

final question: What accountability mechanisms are in place to follow up on how

these funds are spent?

MS. LANE:

Each of the organizations that are provided core funding by the Office for the

Status of Women are required to submit annual reports prior to funding being

released. After the interim funding is provided, organizations are required in

February to submit a work plan for the following year, and, as I said, annual

reports are submitted to us by April 30 of that fiscal year.

MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:

Those are all my questions.

First

of all, I should have stated this at the outset that I am substituting for Barry

Petten, who's the MHA for Conception Bay South. I would like to, as well, thank

the minister and her officials for the obvious dedicated efforts that you put

into the positions that you hold and for the answers to these questions today.

It's been a very useful exercise and I thank you.

CHAIR:

Thank you, Helen.

Any

further questions, Ms. Coffin?

MS. COFFIN:

Yes. There's my light. Excellent.

Your

office was developing an equity profile on the status of women in this province

as part of developing gender-inclusive policies, legislation, programs and

services. Is this profile available?

MS. LANE:

That equity profile has indeed been completed. If you would like a copy, you are

more than welcome.

MS. COFFIN:

Lovely. Would appreciate that, please.

Can we

have an update on the leadership initiatives begun in 2018, please?

MS. LANE:

The core leadership initiatives that we held in past fiscal year was, indeed,

our women's leadership conference. Consultations held with a number of women's

organizations and public consultations – and I'll use the word consultation very

loosely, but it was engagement sessions with all our of women's equality-seeking

organizations and the public to determine what is needed in order to help

eliminate barriers for women in leadership and how we best move forward in order

to do so.

MS. COFFIN:

That's excellent. So what is needed?

MS. LANE:

We're still looking at that and our consultations with those organizations are

still ongoing. There have been no conclusive measures determined at this point

in time. We have a fair idea but we are still in that engagement process.

MS. COFFIN:

When might we expect to have that?

MS. LANE:

The engagement process completed?

MS. COFFIN:

Yes.

MS. LANE:

Likely by the fall.

MS. COFFIN:

Wonderful. Thank you very much.

Let's

go to gender analysis now. I'm assuming that there has been a gender analysis of

the 2019-2020 budget, in particular, on new spending. How did majorish

initiatives, like Grieg and Canopy Growth, fare in their gender analysis? Were

there any particular issues identified in either one of those?

MS. ROSS:

As you're aware, one of the things that we look at is women's employment plans

and gender-equity plans. One of the things that we do in our office is we review

all of those and look at where the opportunities are for the employment for the

impacts that are on women, and they're treated as are all of the plans that come

to us.

MS. COFFIN:

So, in particular, with Grieg, did we find anything that was anomalous? Were

they gender equitable in their employment? Was there any negative effects for

the women that are left in the community? Like, for example, if both mom and dad

got a job at the plant or at the aquaculture facility, was that leaving Nan at

home taking care of small children?

MS. ROSS:

We don't have that specific information.

MS. COFFIN:

Okay. Good enough.

Let's

move on to women in poverty, in particular, minimum wage. Is there any move to

increase minimum wage beyond the annual CPI increase? In doing such a thing, we

find that CPI going up by whatever amount as well as every other salary going up

by proportional amounts, it's actually going to keep women in the same level of

poverty proportionally.

So we

actually need higher increases in the minimum wage rate if we want to move

people out of poverty. We know that more women than men tend to be earning

minimum wage. Has there been any movement on that?

MS. ROSS:

The responsibility for minimum wage doesn't fall within the Office for the

Status of Women, it falls within another department.

MS. COFFIN:

Is there an initiative in the Status of Women to certainly move that forward as

a thing that would improve women's lives?

MS. ROSS:

We work on a number of initiatives that looks at how do we have women raised up

from poverty in terms of the kinds of occupations they get into, what kinds of

supports they need, looking at them getting into higher wage positions. As

indicated, employment plans are another piece of it, but, as indicated, when it

comes to minimum wage, that falls totally within another department.

MS. COFFIN:

Okay. Let's talk about equal pay and pay equity.

There

is a distinction between equal pay for work of equal value versus equal pay for

people doing the same job. The much more predominant and much more effective one

would be moving towards equal pay for work of equal value. Is there any appetite

for moving to that type of model in this office?

MS. ROSS:

As I mentioned earlier, the pay equity committee is very active looking at all

of the different options that are out there, really looking at what the

implications are, how they would apply in our province and what other provinces

have done as well. That work is ongoing right now.

MS. COFFIN:

Thank you.

Let's

have a chat now about large projects. Certainly, we have seen the negative

effects that large scale projects have had on our communities and our province.

When we have done a lot of analysis on the effectiveness of bringing in large

scale investment, quite often we forget to look at some of the economic bads, or

some of the negative things that come as a result of that.

Some of

the things that we have seen in our society that has come as a result of that

have been the increase in the number of gangs, an increase in opioid use, an

increase in sex work. Certainly along these lines, has there been a move to

incorporate a more detailed and comprehensible analysis of these types of things

into some of our megaprojects? Of course, many of these things would, of course,

disproportionately effect women as well.

MS. ROSS:

Certainly in terms of some of what you referenced, given that we are

specifically looking at finances in this session, as you'll note, we do support

the Safe Harbour Outreach Program, which does work with individuals who are

involved in the sex trade. SHOP – as the acronym is – are partners of ours and

we receive consultation. They provide an update on what they're seeing in terms

of the clientele that they're working with in terms of the impacts of various

issues and what's going on in community.

MS. COFFIN:

Excellent.

Spring

boarding off of that, given the prevalence of sex work, which again is

predominantly female dominated, has there been a consideration in the office to

move or co-operate with whatever authorities need to be co-operated with for the

legalization, taxation and health improvement of anyone working in that

particular industry?

MS. ROSS:

This is an issue that is of concern to the office and we are, as I indicated

earlier, in consultation with those who work with individuals involved in the

sex trade. So, SHOP, as well as another community partner, Thrive, which

oversees the coalition against the sexual exploitation of youth and the Blue

Door Project, both of which work with individuals who are in the sex trade or

being sexually exploited and have expressed a desire to leave that.

We are

also involved with other stakeholders, because one of the major concerns that we

all share is ensuring the safety of those who are involved. What can be done to

ensure that they are safe, that their health is being looked after, et cetera,

so those conversations happen on a frequent basis and there are meetings in that

regard.

MS. COFFIN:

Thank you.

Can we

have an update on the Gender Equity and Diversity Plans and Women's Employment

Plans for major projects? For example, what employers have you been working

with?

MS. LANE:

We don't have that information here with us on hand, we can have it for you this

afternoon.

MS. COFFIN:

Wonderful; appreciate that.

I do

believe one of my final questions, I had a grand chat to some people at Advanced

Education, Skills and Labour, one of the programs they administer is the Mother

Baby Nutrition Supplement. They were underspent last year because they had some

difficulty reaching out to women who were eligible for the project.

Are you

coordinating efforts with them?

MS. ROSS:

We do on a number of different issues; however, I have to say, I hadn't heard

that, but certainly we'll follow up. Thank you.

MS. COFFIN:

I would recommend that because that's a very important one.

Thank

you very much.

CHAIR:

Any further questions before I give Mr. Lane an opportunity to speak, or ask

questions? None.

Mr.

Lane.

MR. LANE

Yes, thank you.

I just

got a couple of questions, because pretty much everything has been covered off

pretty good.

MS. COFFIN:

Thank you.

MR. LANE:

You're welcome.

One

question I do have relates to, I guess, your efforts as it relates to violence,

violence against women, in particular, obviously. We do know that there can be

violence the other way around too, but, predominantly, it's men against women.

I'm

just wondering, in the work that you're doing in targeting violence against

women, and I know you work with a number of women's organizations and so on, but

what efforts have been made to try to reach out to men on this issue? Because if

they're the ones that are generally the perpetrators, then I think that, you

know, there's a lot of value, and I've been to a number of sessions in the past,

and it's been talked about, that there absolutely is a need for men who are not

violent to step up, if you will, and get involved and support the cause. So, I'm

just wondering what efforts or initiatives is made by your office to reach out

to men to be part of the solution?

MS. ROSS:

I think that's an excellent point, and it's one that we are very aware of. Some

of us have been saying that for a very long time.

One of

the things – and I will ask my colleague, Leanne, to confirm this, but through

our grants program, we have funded Indigenous men to allow them the funding to

be able to do workshops on this particular issue. I know that did happen in the

past, so I'll ask her in a moment to speak to that. Certainly, that's one of the

issues that's coming out in this consultation that we've had where we've got the

advisory committee of community and government.

The

partners that we have at First Light are big proponents also of engaging men in

ending violence. As people may know, our Indigenous partners across the country

have led the way in things like the Moose Hide Campaign and I am a Good Man, et

cetera, and I know there is an interest in ensuring that that continues. We will

be working to engage men, by all means.

Now

I'll turn it to Leanne.

MS. LANE:

As Ms. Ross has said, we've

done a great deal of work with our Indigenous partners in terms of Violence

Prevention Grants that have been awarded specifically for the engagement of men

and boys in finding long-term solutions to violence within Indigenous

communities to ensure that the solutions are, indeed, culturally appropriate.

Aside

from that and building on that, this past year I'm sure that you have all seen

the MerB'ys Calendar. The MerB'ys Calendar, for those who don't know, it's an

organization ran by Hasan Hai who is the president of Newfoundland and Labrador

Beard and Moustache Club. The calendar actually this year – the Violence

Prevention NL organization was chosen as the recipient of the profits and

proceeds of the sales of the calendar.

Our

Office for the Status of Women assisted very heavily in the development of the

proposal which was selected, and the core topic and the project that's unveiling

around the province right now is about indeed deconstructing toxic masculinity

and engaging men and boys in long-term solutions to violence.

So,

aside from and in addition to and complementary to the work that's ongoing

within our Indigenous communities, we also have our Violence Prevention NL

organizations who were awarded over $200,000 from the sales of the MerB'ys

Calendar that are specifically targeting initiatives and activities across the

province to engage men and boys of violence prevention efforts.

MR. LANE:

Yeah, thank you for that.

That's a good initiative and I do believe I did hear of Mr. Hai before

somewhere.

I'm

wondering now about pay equity. It's already been sort of referenced, but it

seems to me that I've been hearing about pay equity forever. Maybe I dreamt it,

but it seems like, for a long time, I've been hearing about pay equity, pay

equity. Now we're hearing that you have a committee, you had your meeting – I

believe, you indicated, Ms. Ross, that you were looking at bringing in some more

expertise or something because you had determined that needed to happen.

It's

great that we're working on it. I'm not knocking that. I realize, perhaps,

you're new to the process and the minister is new, but the process of pay equity

and the talking about pay equity has been happening, like I said, forever. At

what point in time do we think that we might see some actual movement beyond

talking about pay equity?

MS. ROSS:

Thank you.

Yes, it

has been going on and it does take a great deal of time. I think the one thing

that has become increasingly clear in the process of doing this is that this is

far from simple. It is very complex in terms of setting pay equity up. This is

not solely my opinion, but it's what we have seen from the research that we've

done and looking and talking with colleagues across the country in terms of what

needs to be taken into consideration, how you go about doing that, the questions

that need to be answered in terms of what it's going to look like. Specifically,

what it is we intend to do?

It's

not something that can happen quickly. Our hope is that by adding this expertise

that we will be considerably further along because we've now reached a point

where we know what some of the challenging questions are and that we need to

present that and to bring that forward.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

I don't

mean this to sound wrong, but it sounds like we're going to be talking about it

for quite some time to come before we see any actual implementation. That's what

it sounds like to me, and you can correct me if I'm wrong.

MS. ROSS:

Well, as I said, we're

hoping to really have something to bring forward for consideration by

government. We're looking to be much further along in terms of the presentation

and the work we're going to do over the summer, for example. But, even after

that point, implementation of it is not something that happens quickly. If you

look at what's happening in other jurisdictions, for example, where

implementation of it is, some of them are taking three years to get it in place,

once they've kind of decided that they're going to do it. So it is a lengthy

process by all means.

MR. LANE:

Indeed. Thank you.

I am

wondering about the whole concept of applying gender lenses to policies and so

on that the minister referenced. And I know somebody asked about the tool and it

was indicated that you didn't have the tool itself available right now, but you

could probably get it.

Can you

just walk me through the mechanics of what that means? Like, when I hear someone

say, we applied a gender lens to policies, what specifically – just the

mechanics of how does that work with a piece of legislation, for argument's

sake.

MS. ROSS:

Certainly. I didn't speak to it earlier because, as I indicated, I only came in

the middle of January, so I can speak to what's happened since that time.

MR. LANE:

Sure.

MS. ROSS:

People talk about it, you're quite right, and really don't necessarily know what

it means or how it actually applies to the work that they do. We have done a lot

of work to try to change that.

As I

think the minister indicated when she gave her opening remarks, what it's really

taken is taking specific groups within government – for example, people in

communications, what does that mean for the work that we do? Each session is

tailor-made and it consists of something as simple as going through, at the very

outset, things that are true or false. A lot of what we actually espouse as

being true, people find out it's false in terms of just assumptions.

Then

the person who's doing the training takes the mandate letter of the minister and

looks at what's within that. I'll take, for example, any particular department;

it's difficult to imagine how to apply a gender lens. Well, our staff are

actually working with them on a step-by-step, using examples of this is what it

means, this is how you do it so that when you're developing this, when you're

developing a program, when you're developing a policy, whatever you're doing,

this is what you need to think about. This is how you have to view it because

you cannot assume that everybody is impacted in the same way.

It's by

doing these – and also, the other piece that we have been doing, the staff are

to be credited because what they do is they actually are receiving calls, they

offer the support and help people in departments who are calling and saying,

okay, I'm doing this, am I on the right track? What do I need to do? What

questions do I need to ask here? It really is having a significant impact.

MR. LANE:

That's good. Glad to hear

that.

final question around the same thing, I suppose, to some degree, is in terms of

the filling of positions on agencies, boards, commissions and so on. I know

we've heard that the gender lens has been applied but I know my colleagues with

the NDP – or my former colleagues with the NDP – there were times when bills

would come up around that, people being appointed to certain roles. They would

always bring up and ask the question about the gender lens and nobody could

concretely say for sure exactly, yeah, that was necessarily done to ensure

equity in the hiring of people for the filling of positions.

Is it

safe to say that whenever there are positions appointed now in all agencies,

boards, commissions that is indeed happening, as opposed to, yeah, I think it's

happening, I'm sure it's happening. Is there a policy? Is it absolutely

happening?

MS. ROSS:

I don't sit at the Independent Appointments Commission table and it is, by its

very nature, separate and independent. We always say that we need more women at

the decision-making tables; we're always very clear about that. I think that's a

consistent message that many people reiterate.

One of

the things that we need – and it will be part of the work that we do on

leadership – is to encourage more women to put their names forward. One of the

challenges that we face is, many times, women don't put their names forward for

it because they somehow don't think they're qualified, or they perhaps only feel

90 per cent of what they're looking for, so they self-select out.

certainly has been brought to our attention that one of the critical issues is

to really help women to see how the skills they have are transferable, to being

able to put their name forward for the various agencies, boards and commissions

that have openings. That is one of the pieces that we're intending to do as part

of our leadership work.

MR. LANE:

Thank you.

CHAIR:

Your time has expired.

Are

there any other questions to 2.7.01 to 2.7.03?

CLERK:

2.7.01 to 2.7.03 inclusive.

CHAIR:

Shall 2.7.01 to 2.7.03 inclusive carry?

All

those in favour?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

motion, subheads 2.7.01 through 2.7.03 carried.

CLERK:

3.1.01.

CHAIR:

Okay, we're going to discuss 3.1.01 to 3.1.02.

CLERK:

They'll have to switch out.

CHAIR:

Okay, switching over.

While

we're switching over we'll take a five-minute break, if anybody needs to. In the

interest of time we will start again at 10:18.

Recess

CHAIR:

Can we get a microphone for

Mr. Crosbie, please?

MR. CROSBIE:

As I was saying, Mr. Chairman, I'm substituting for Loyola O'Driscoll, the

Member for Ferryland District. Shall I continue or –

CHAIR:

No.

MR. CROSBIE:

– do you need someone else on the –?

CHAIR:

I will ask the Member to your right.

MS. TUBRETT:

My name is Denise Tubrett. I'm the Deputy Chief of Staff with the Official

Opposition.

MR. LANE:

Paul Lane, MHA, Mount Pearl - Southlands.

MS. COFFIN:

Alison Coffin, MHA, St. John's East - Quidi Vidi.

MR. MORGAN:

Ivan Morgan, Researcher, NDP Caucus.

MR. LOVELESS:

Elvis Loveless, MHA, Fortune Bay - Cape La Hune.

MR. WARR:

Brian Warr, MHA, Baie Verte - Green Bay.

MS. STOODLEY:

Sarah Stoodley, MHA, Mount Scio.

MR. WAKEHAM:

Tony Wakeham, MHA, Stephenville - Port au Port.

MS. EVANS:

Lela Evans, MHA, Torngat Mountains.

CHAIR:

We're going to use the same process. The minister will be given the opportunity

to introduce his Executive Council and then we'll give you 15 minutes to speak,

followed by the Member for the Opposition to also have 15 minutes. Then each

Member will have 10 minutes after that.

Mr.

Osborne.

MR. OSBORNE:

Tom Osborne, Minister of Finance, President of the Treasury Board. I will ask

staff now to introduce themselves as well.

MS. DAY:

Elizabeth Day, Clerk of the Executive Council.

MS. TRICKETT:

Wanda Trickett, Departmental Controller.

MS. HUSSEY:

Cindy Hussey, Assistant Deputy Clerk.

MS. NORMAN:

Katie Norman, Assistant Deputy Minister, Public Engagement.

MR. BROWN:

David Brown, Private Secretary to the Lieutenant Governor.

MR. BRUCE:

Glenn Bruce, Associate Secretary to Cabinet, Communications.

MS. ELLIOTT:

Susan Elliott, Executive Assistant to the minister.

MR. BARFOOT:

Scott Barfoot, Director of Communications, Communications and Consultation

Branch.

CLERK:

1.1.01.

CHAIR:

1.1.01.

Mr.

Osborne.

MR. OSBORNE:

Thank you.

Before

we begin I'd like to take a few moments to make some high-level remarks about

Executive Council as a whole. The Office of Executive Council of the Government

of Newfoundland and Labrador is the Premier's department and plays a critical

role in supporting the effective operation of government.

The

Executive Council's three key roles are: Leadership, coordination and the

provision of advice and support. Many of the activities focus on ensuring

informed, effective decision-making and public sector management. These

activities support the strategic priorities of government and ultimately

contribute to the development and delivery of public services to the people of

Newfoundland and Labrador.

The

mandate of the OEC is to support the Premier's office and the work of Cabinet

and its committees; to facilitate, coordinate and support the Cabinet

decision-making process; formulate orders and communicate decisions of Cabinet;

to facilitate and coordinate advice and initiatives on matters related to

economic policy, social policy and government operations; to facilitate and

coordinate performance-based planning and reporting throughout government and

its public bodies; to facilitate and coordinate the Regulatory Reform Initiative

and the policy on evaluation; to support the role of the Lieutenant Governor; to

advise on protocol matters; to provide strategic communications counsel and

support to the Premier and Cabinet and coordinate government-wide communication

activities; and to provide leadership of the provincial public service to ensure

that the government has the policy, human resource and management capacity it

needs to develop and deliver effective policies and programs.

While

the Executive Council is the Premier's department, there are some portions of it

that report to me in my role as the Minister of Finance. These are the Human

Resources Secretariat and the OCIO. When we get to these departments, I'll make

a few remarks around those departments as well.

We'll

open it up for questions.

CHAIR:

Mr. Crosbie.

MR. CROSBIE:

Okay, thank you, and thank you to the minister.

I'm

looking at – as you read out, Mr. Chairman – 1.1.01, Government House,

Lieutenant Governor's Establishment, as we tend to say, I guess. The first one

that jumps out is the salary item. The obvious question is: Can you explain why

Salaries went over budget by $126,000 in fiscal '18-'19?

MS. TRICKETT:

The overrun from '18-'19 represents severance and related benefits for two

management employees, as well as there were a few vacancies throughout the year.

MR. CROSBIE:

Sorry, I didn't hear the last few words.

MS. TRICKETT:

There were some vacancies throughout the year as well. That offset the payment

of severance and related benefits for the two employees.

MR. CROSBIE:

Sorry, I'm not sure of the connection between the vacancies and the severance.

What's that?

MS. TRICKETT:

There was a small amount of vacancies through the year that did reduce down the

overrun associated with the severance and related benefits.

MR. CROSBIE:

Yes, well, still, it's $126,000.

MS. TRICKETT:

The majority of that relates to severance and related benefits for two

employees.

MR. CROSBIE:

What's the net number?

MS. TRICKETT:

It was $148,500 related to severance and related benefits, which was slightly

reduced by $22,500 for vacancies, to net down to the $126,000.

MR. CROSBIE:

In a similar vein, the budget for Transportation and Communications has

increased. Could an explanation be given as to why that is?

MS. TRICKETT:

The majority of that over increase from budget to budget relates to the carrying

costs and the ongoing costs associated with Wi-Fi costs for the Government

House.

MR. CROSBIE:

So the whole place is ‘Wi-Fied' out, is it?

MS. TRICKETT:

Yes. During the fiscal year '18-'19, Wi-Fi was installed at Government House.

There is an installation cost that you will notice as an increase in a line item

under Purchased Services; I'm sure that may be a question as we go further.

The

budget increase in Transportation and Communications relates to the ongoing

monthly related costs associated with that Wi-Fi.

MR. CROSBIE:

That fits under Communications that bit.

MS. TRICKETT:

Yes.

MR. CROSBIE:

And the Purchased Services, the Wi-Fi installation, shows up in there as well,

that increase?

MS. TRICKETT:

Correct.

MR. CROSBIE:

Anything else? What accounts for the extra, what is it, $21,300? Wi-Fi and what

else?

MS. TRICKETT:

The Purchased Services line itself will include such costs as printing charges,

shredding costs, those basic operational amounts, but the overrun from '18-'19

is associated mainly due to the installation of the Wi-Fi.

MR. CROSBIE:

Boy, an expensive service.

MS. TRICKETT:

Yes and I can probably refer a little bit to the Office of the Chief Information

Officer on that. My understanding is considering the nature of the house, the

age and the structure, I do believe that installation in that facility is much

more onerous than it would be in a more modern office building.

MR. CROSBIE:

I can understand if it's challenging.

Where

does liquor purchasing fit in – liquor, wine and beer? I am not meaning to be

critical; we know that one of the purposes of the place is entertainment. Where

does it fit?

MS. Trickett: I

am going to defer that to Dave Brown.

MR. BROWN:

Yes, Sir, thank you.

Liquor

purchasing is not a provincial responsibility, it's a federal responsibility.

MR. CROSBIE:

I never knew that.

Can you

provide a list of purchasers, please?

MS. Trickett: You

mean the list of actually spent for '18-'19?

MR. CROSBIE:

Yes.

MS. Trickett: I

don't have that specific detail with me, but I can certainly provide it to you.

MR. CROSBIE:

Yeah, that would be fine.

MS. Trickett:

Okay.

MR. CROSBIE:

Thank you.

The

Lieutenant-Governors attend a yearly conference and so does the Governor

General. Does the federal government pay for that?

MS. Trickett:

Again, I'll defer that to Dave Brown, please.

MR. CROSBIE:

Mr. Brown?

MR. BROWN:

Yes, Sir, it does.

MR. CROSBIE:

Very well.

As we

know, the salary of the Lieutenant-Governor is paid by the federal government as

well.

MR. BROWN:

That's correct.

MR. CROSBIE:

I'd ask the overall budget for the Government House?

MR. BROWN:

From the federal –?

MR. CROSBIE:

Well, no, what we are

looking at here that you are responsible for.

MR. BROWN:

Wanda?

MS. Trickett: I'm

sorry . Could you repeat your

question?

MR. CROSBIE:

Who drafts it, the budget?

MS. Trickett:

That is done in consultation with the Lieutenant-Governor, the clerk of the

Executive Council and the premier.

MR. CROSBIE:

But who initiates and is

really doing this piece of paper here with the numbers?

MS. Trickett: I

am the Departmental Controller for that area.

MR. CROSBIE:

Yes – you?

MS. Trickett:

Yes.

MR. CROSBIE:

Okay.

Where

does the maintenance budget for the property fit in here?

MS. Trickett: I

am going to defer that to Dave Brown as well.

MR. BROWN:

Yes, Sir, it fits within the

Transportation and Works budget somewhere. I couldn't be specific on it.

MR. CROSBIE:

Okay.

So it's

not in these numbers we are seeing here?

MR. BROWN:

No, that's correct.

MR. CROSBIE:

I see. It'd be of some substance given the age of the property, the size of it

and so on and so forth, but it's not in front of us now.

MR. BROWN:

That's correct.

MR. CROSBIE:

Given the province's fiscal situation – I will not bother reciting that – was

consideration given to reducing the budget at Government House?

MR. BROWN:

Yes, Sir, the budget has been reduced over the past three, four, even five

years.

MR. CROSBIE:

I'm sorry; you said the

budget was reduced?

MR. BROWN:

That is correct.

MR. CROSBIE:

Okay, very good.

I'm

finished on this 1.1.01.

Thank

you.

CHAIR:

Ms. Coffin.

MS. COFFIN:

Thank you very much.

I was

going to ask about the capital cost but I can find that in Transportation and

Works. You're not exactly sure where that is in Trans and Works? Yes?

MR. BROWN:

Yes, that's correct.

MS. COFFIN:

Okay. I can try and dig that

out.

Can I

have a breakdown of the number of staff and their positions at Government House,

please?

MR. BROWN:

We have my position, we have

an events manager, we have a clerk typist III and we have three domestic

workers: a gardener, a chef and two contractual workers.

MS. COFFIN:

Excellent. Thank you very

much.

I've

done a couple of these now and I've noticed several different departments have

approached the attrition model in different ways. Has there been any attrition

in the Government House?

MS. DAY:

With respect to attrition, I can say that we are addressing that across all of

the offices. I know that HRS is going to speak specifically to attrition and the

general policy and how we are moving forward with attrition.

With

respect to Government House, yes there has been. They have had savings as a

result of attrition.

MS. COFFIN:

Okay, thank you very much.

So that

answer now goes across all your department in terms of how they have approached

attrition? Because I'm glancing at some of this now and I don't see a whole lot

of attrition happening, just glancing at some of these pieces.

MS. DAY:

Right, we are approaching it, generally, across the offices within Executive

Council and we have had savings at Cabinet Secretariat, the Communications

Branch, as well as Government House.

MS. COFFIN:

Okay, do you know how many

positions you've attrited?

MS. DAY:

Not positions particularly, we have salary-dollar savings. Within Cabinet

Secretariat there has been $40,000 this year and last, within the Communications

Branch there has been a total $80,000 this year and last and about $15,000 at

Government House.

MS. COFFIN:

You say there are salary

decreases but not position decreases, so does this mean that someone was laid

off at a more senior position and a junior person was hired in their place?

MS. DAY:

No, there have been no individuals affected or positions. It's basically

vacancies that are being held to account for the savings.

MS. COFFIN:

Okay, so those positions are

not being written down even though they're not filled.

MS. DAY:

That's correct.

MS. COFFIN:

If we haven't had them

filled in a year, perhaps they are unnecessary?

MS. DAY:

That is certainly under review as well and we take that into account when we are

looking at filling positions.

MS. COFFIN:

Good enough.

Thank

you very much. That's all my questions.

CHAIR:

Any other questions?

Mr.

Crosbie?

MR. CROSBIE:

Not on that item, no.

CHAIR:

Mr. Lane, have you got any

questions?

MR. LANE:

Yeah, I've got a couple of

quick ones.

I am

just wondering, Operating Accounts is basically $100,000 a year. So what is

that? What's covered in that?

MS. TRICKETT:

I'm sorry; could you repeat your question?

MR. LANE:

The Operating Accounts,

$100,000.

OFFICIAL:

That's the total of everything above that.

MR. LANE:

Oh, that's the total of

everything above it. Okay, never mind.

When

the Lieutenant-Governor travels around the province or out of the province for

that matter, $36,500, that's the total cost for travel, or are there other

sources of funding federally or something that covers that? Because that seems

fairly low to me.

MS. TRICKETT:

Her travel would be reflected under the federal budget.

MR. LANE:

Under the federal, okay.

Right

now there's $742,000 provincially. That's not including what would be under

Transportation and Works for maintenance and upkeep and whatever other services

would be provided there. So, likely that takes us to a million or thereabouts

provincially. How much do we get from the feds on top of that to pay for

Government House in general?

MS. TRICKETT:

I'll defer to Dave Brown on that.

MR. BROWN:

The Office of the Lieutenant-Governor receives an annual grant from the federal

government of approximately $77,000. That covers the Lieutenant-Governor's

travel around the province and outside when it's required, as well as other

ceremonial functions that are required to be supported.

MR. LANE:

Okay, $77,000.

MR. BROWN:

That's correct.

MR. LANE:

So what else does the

federal government pay for? They pay her salary and what else?

MR. BROWN:

Yes, the federal government pays the Lieutenant-Governor a salary.

MR. LANE:

Yeah.

MR. BROWN:

She also contributes to a pension plan and she gets regular medical coverage as

well. She is essentially an employee of the federal government. To further

explain, Sir, the grant has specific uses that we have to very carefully expend.

MR. LANE:

Sure. So what's the total funding from the federal government? For everything,

what's –?

MR. BROWN:

I can't speak to her salary, I guess that's available publicly, but I don't know

exactly what it is. I can tell you about the $77,000 that's there to support

official functions and travel.

MR. LANE:

Okay, that's it, that's all the questions I have.

Thank

you.

CHAIR:

No further questions?

CLERK:

1.1.01.

CHAIR:

Shall 1.1.01 carry?

All

those in favour, ‘aye.'

AN HON. MEMBER:

Aye.

CHAIR:

All those against, ‘nay.'

motion, subhead 1.1.01 carried.

CHAIR:

Shall the total carry?

All

those in favour, ‘aye.'

AN HON. MEMBER:

Aye.

CHAIR:

All those against, ‘nay.'

Carried.

motion, Government House, total head, carried.

CHAIR:

Next item is going be the

Premier's Office, 2.1.01.

CLERK:

2.1.01.

CHAIR:

Shall 2.1.01 carry?

All

those in favour, ‘aye.'

Sorry.

MR. CROSBIE:

I think I get a chance to ask questions.

CHAIR:

You do, that's correct. We're jumping ahead.

MR. CROSBIE:

Good.

CHAIR:

Go ahead, Sir.

MR. CROSBIE:

I was a little worried there for a moment.

Could

we be provided with a list of all the staff in the Premier's Office, please?

MS. DAY:

Yes.

MR. CROSBIE:

The answer is a yes. Thank you.

As to

Salaries, the details document lists 14 positions in the office in 2018 and 16

in 2019. Curiously enough, the budgeted salary is the same. Can you explain

this?

MS. TRICKETT:

Just to clarify, you're referring to the salary report that was published on

budget day?

MR. CROSBIE:

Well, it's – the answer is yes.

MS. TRICKETT:

Thank you.

That

report is, in essence, a snapshot in time that's taken by the Human Resource

Secretariat and it would display all active, filled positions within a

particular area. So, if there were any vacancies at that moment in time, they

would not display in that report. So, that would explain, I guess, the

difference between the number of positions from two years.

terms of the salary envelope, that is the budget at the time of budget

preparation that was anticipated to be required for the staff complement that

would be necessary for '19-'20.

MR. CROSBIE:

So if I understand you, the 14 positions given in 2018, is that as of the end of

that year?

MS. TRICKETT:

Once again, that report that was published in the former Estimates would also be

a snapshot in time. I don't know the specific date that those reports were

generated. I'm sure the deputy minister and officials with Human Resource

Secretariat who will be speaking later this morning may have some more detail on

the generation of that report.

MR. CROSBIE:

Well, again, so I understand, are you saying that the snapshot, as you put it,

could be taken at really any time during the year?

MS. TRICKETT:

I don't believe it's taken at any time of the year. My understanding – and,

again, I stand to be corrected from those officials – is that it's taken at the

point in time that the Estimates, that the budget itself is getting ready to be

published and/or released. So, it would be somewhere towards the end of the

fiscal year, depending upon when budget had been slated to be delivered.

MR. CROSBIE:

Okay, so the actual date could vary, then, from one fiscal year to another,

could it, somewhat?

MS. TRICKETT:

That is my understanding, yes. I don't believe it's taken on a particular day,

no.

MR. CROSBIE:

So it's not necessarily consistent in terms of being a snapshot taken on the

same day each fiscal year.

MS. TRICKETT:

That would be my understanding.

MR. CROSBIE:

It's based on workflow and when people get around to actually doing the work

that is provided to Estimates.

MS. TRICKETT:

I would imagine that it is done as close to budget day to allow for publication

as possible to –

MR. CROSBIE:

Yeah.

MS. TRICKETT:

– give the best picture of who we have, as an organization, on payroll at that

moment in time.

MR. CROSBIE:

Yes.

What

all this is getting to is the explanation of the variation, somewhat, and the

number of positions. It just depends on whether those positions happen to be

filled at the time the snapshot is taken, is it?

MS. TRICKETT:

For that particular report, yes.

MR. CROSBIE:

Yes.

Could

you also provide a list of Purchased Services, please?

I hear

a yes, Sir?

MS. TRICKET:

Yes.

OFFICIAL:

Yes.

MR. CROSBIE:

I'm just used to working on

transcripts and you like to hear an audible answer, so it gets captured by

Hansard . Thank you.

Could

an explanation be given, please, for why Salaries have gone over budget by

$203,500 in '18-'19?

I'm on

2.2.01, Executive Support.

MS. TRICKETT:

This overrun from'18-'19 reflects an increase related to positions associated

with the Muskrat Falls Oversight Committee, other major projects for which

funding was budgeted under the Department of Finance and, subsequently,

transferred in per direction of Treasury Board.

MR. CROSBIE:

Got it.

MS. TRICKETT:

It also reflects severance and related benefits for two management employees.

CHAIR:

Mr. Crosbie, we're going to

complete 2.1.01 first, so if you've got any questions related to this one –

MR. CROSBIE:

I see.

CHAIR:

– we'll address the 2.2.01

after.

MR. CROSBIE:

Very good. So, in other

words, you want to rotate to other people?

CHAIR:

Yes.

MR. CROSBIE:

Very good.

CHAIR:

Ms. Coffin?

MS. COFFIN:

So, we're at 2.1.01, yes?

CHAIR:

Correct.

MS. COFFIN:

Allowances and Assistance,

there is $20,000 there. What's that used for?

MS. TRICKETT:

That reflects the housing allowance for the Premier.

MS. COFFIN:

Okay.

Yes,

that's my only question on this.

Thank

you.

CHAIR:

Mr. Lane, you got a

question?

MR. LANE:

No questions.

CHAIR:

Shall 2.1.01 carry?

All

those in favour, ‘aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

motion, subhead 2.1.01 carried.

CHAIR:

Shall the total carry?

All

those in favour, ‘aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

Carried.

motion, Premier's Office, total head, carried.

CLERK:

2.2.01.

CHAIR:

2.2.01.

Mr.

Crosbie.

MR. CROSBIE:

Thank you.

So, I

was about to ask what are the other major projects referred to that go into the

over budget amount of $203,500?

MS. DAY:

Some of those projects included work that was done on the federal loan guarantee

2 and work that was done on the ExxonMobil file.

MR. CROSBIE:

Sorry, the federal loan guarantee …?

MS. DAY:

The federal loan guarantee 2.

MR. CROSBIE:

Two –

MS. DAY:

The second.

MR. CROSBIE:

Muskrat?

MS. DAY:

Yes.

MR. CROSBIE:

Okay.

MS. DAY:

As well as work that was done on the ExxonMobil file that was worked on through

the person who was hired with Cabinet Secretariat, and the provision of policy

advice to the Premier's office on an ongoing basis.

MR. CROSBIE:

Could I have the list of such expenditures, please?

MS. DAY:

Yes.

MR. CROSBIE:

Very good. Thank you.

There's

a planned salary decrease for ‘19-'20. How is it planned to achieve this?

MS. TRICKETT:

That is, as the clerk had

referenced previously, an exercise in vacancies. There would be natural delayed

recruitment processes and savings that would result from the filling of those

vacancies.

MR. CROSBIE:

Sorry, say that again? Savings …

MS. TRICKETT:

Savings that would relate from delayed recruitment, just the natural recruitment

process and the timing that it takes.

MR. CROSBIE:

I see. Can you give an overview of the line item for Transportation and

Communications? Last year we had $56,600 budgeted and $38,000 spent, with a

savings of $18,600. This year, the budget is set at $45,300.

MS. TRICKETT:

There were savings last year related to lower travel than anticipated and –

MR. CROSBIE:

To lower – I'm sorry.

MS. TRICKETT:

Lower travel requirements than anticipated. For this year we have reflected the

budget to a reduction of $11,300 to reflect those lesser anticipated

requirements, again, for '19-'20.

MR. CROSBIE:

Would you provide a list of the Professional Services provided, please? That's

affirmative?

MS. TRICKETT:

Confirmed, yes.

MR. CROSBIE:

In Purchased Services, we went over budget by $17,000 in '18-'19. Can you say

why?

MS. TRICKETT:

The overrun in Purchased Services reflects relocation costs associated with the

former clerk of Executive Council.

MR. CROSBIE:

So we've already heard that the budget for the Muskrat Falls Oversight Committee

is contained in these numbers here. Is that right?

MS. TRICKETT:

No, the budget for the Muskrat Falls Oversight is actually – for the portion

that relates to the Cabinet Secretariat work – budgeted under the Department of

Finance. As those expenditures are incurred – and, as necessary, the office will

absorb those costs to the best of their ability. As necessary, the office will

request from the Treasury Board authority to move some of those budgetary

amounts that are allocated under the Department of Finance into Executive

Council to address those costs.

MR. CROSBIE:

Where do we go to piece together the entire budget for the Oversight Committee?

MS. TRICKETT:

I can't speak, I suppose, to the entirety across government, only what I have

responsibility for. As stated, the office will absorb general office operating

costs. Paper requirements, supplies: those types of basic costs are absorbed

within these budgeted allocations.

terms of specific costs associated with the project, there is an allocation

under the Department of Finance in a vote there that has specific amounts

allocated. I can't speak to other departments and if they would have anything

specifically budgeted for in their Estimates or not.

MR. CROSBIE:

Can you tell us what amount was transferred in to Executive Council, please?

MS. TRICKETT:

Yes, for '18-'19 we transferred $151,800 into Salaries to address – I'm sorry,

for Muskrat Falls Oversight, specifically?

MR. CROSBIE:

This Oversight Committee, yes.

MS. TRICKETT:

I'm sorry, I misspoke there. For Salaries we absorbed the salary requirements to

the best of our ability and we didn't actually transfer anything else. There was

nothing transferred for '18-'19 for Muskrat Falls.

MR. CROSBIE:

There was nothing? Say that again?

MS. TRICKETT:

There was nothing transferred from Finance to Executive Council for Muskrat

Falls in '18-'19.

MR. CROSBIE:

Okay.

I think

you were trying to explain what got transferred in to Executive Council. What

was it? What was it for?

MS. TRICKETT:

My initial statement?

MR. CROSBIE:

Yes.

MS. TRICKETT:

That would be related to the salaries for the individual the clerk spoke to that

was in charge of major projects in the office. So that salary component was

recovered through an allocation in the Department of Finance as well.

MR. CROSBIE:

Is it in order to ask if we

could be provided for the total budget? It may be fragmented in various places,

but is it possible to get that, Madam Clerk?

MS. DAY:

Yes.

MR. CROSBIE:

Thank you.

CHAIR:

Ms. Coffin.

MS. COFFIN:

Yes, please. Thank you.

I am

remiss; I should have thanked you for coming and being very well prepared. I

forgot that we had switched out people, so thank you and thank you for what I

imagine are excellent notes. One question now that fits here just as well as it

does everywhere else – I guess maybe two – what is the departmental attrition

target?

MS. DAY:

There is no specific target. We have been allocated a percentage of the savings

of the budget and we are, across the entire Executive Council, focused on

meeting the overall government target. We're all contributing to the overall

target throughout the entire government.

MS. COFFIN:

Wait, what is the overall target for the whole department? This is for the whole

department, not for each section. This is just where I thought it might fit,

just as well as anywhere else.

MS. DAY:

I think I'll defer that question to when HRS is here doing their Estimates just

after us. They'll speak to the government (inaudible).

MS. COFFIN:

I've got the question written down there. Okay, perfect. That's where I had

hidden the question, but I thought it might be an appropriate one here.

I do

believe that's all I have to say on this section.

Thank

you.

CHAIR:

Mr. Lane, did you have any

questions for 2.2.01 to 2.2.02?

MR. LANE:

Yeah, the only thing I have

is any time that Mr. Crosbie or Ms. Coffin should ask for reports or whatever

the case might be, numbers on different things, I would ask that we could all

have copies of that.

MS. DAY:

Yes, we will do that.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

I have

nothing else.

CLERK:

2.2.01 to 2.2.02.

CHAIR:

Shall 2.2.01 to 2.2.02

inclusive carry?

All

those in favour?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

motion, subheads 2.2.01 through 2.2.02 carried.

CLERK:

2.3.01.

CHAIR:

2.3.01.

Mr.

Crosbie.

MR. CROSBIE:

2.3 –

CHAIR:

Yeah. 2.3.01 to 2.3.03,

Communications Branch.

MR. CROSBIE:

So last year Salaries went

over budget by $49,500. Could the minister or other official please outline why?

MS. TRICKETT:

This overrun again reflects

severance and related benefits for an employee.

MR. CROSBIE:

I'm sorry; I didn't quite

catch that.

MS. TRICKETT:

I'm sorry. The increase over

budget reflects the severance and related benefits for an employee.

MR. CROSBIE:

I see.

There's

a salary savings, comparing '18-'19 to '19-'20, of $37,300. Could an explanation

be given how this is going to be achieved?

MS. TRICKETT:

The similar answer I guess

as I gave in the prior activity. This will be achieved through natural delays in

the recruitment process, and any vacancies that are currently vacant, are how

those savings will be achieved.

MR. CROSBIE:

In respect of Supplies,

could you explain what caused this item to go over budget by $8,400?

MS. TRICKETT:

The reason for the overrun

in Supplies is just the result of additional requirements for general office

supplies that were needed in the office, replenishment of resources.

MR. CROSBIE:

When I look at the

description of the Communications Branch, 2.3.01, in my understanding two

different disciplines are being discussed there or described. For example, it

starts out talking about communications counsel and then it goes on, then we see

reference being made to government's marketing services and brand strategy and,

toward the end, marketing and brand services.

Can you

say whether these are separate functions or regarded by this establishment as

separate functions?

MS. TRICKETT:

I'm going to defer that

question to Glenn Bruce.

MR. BRUCE:

Yes, we do have 10 people in

the Marketing division and we have 10 people in the Communications division.

MR. CROSBIE:

So, what I said earlier, in

my understanding they're separate disciplines. Would you agree with that

statement?

MR. BRUCE:

Yes, but we work together

with all the departments as well so the communications staff in departments

would work with marketing staff to develop messaging for the departments and

then develop the products that we would use to deliver those messages.

MR. CROSBIE:

There would be overlap and, of course, communication between these two – what do

we call them, branches or …?

MR. BRUCE:

Divisions.

MR. CROSBIE:

Pardon me?

MR. BRUCE:

That would be division. The Communications division within the branch and the

Marketing division.

MR. CROSBIE:

Obviously, they don't work in totally separate silos; they communicate with each

other?

MR. BRUCE:

Yes.

MR. CROSBIE:

But what I'm getting from the organization of this is that they are regarded

separate disciplines.

MR. BRUCE:

Yes.

MR. CROSBIE:

Thank you.

terms of Professional Services, can you please outline what expenses or projects

were included in the $242,200 expenditure?

MS. TRICKETT:

I don't have a list of the specific items for '18-'19, but I can certainly

provide that to you.

MR. CROSBIE:

What's planned for this year?

MS. TRICKETT:

I'll defer to Glenn Bruce for that.

MR. BRUCE:

Our budget for this year for Professional Services is the $350,400. That

reflects a decrease from 2018 budget as identified under zero-based budgeting.

MR. CROSBIE:

A decrease from the budget that was allocated this year but underspent, you

mean.

MR. BRUCE:

Yes.

MR. CROSBIE:

I'm sorry; you said you were going to provide a list, Ms. Trickett?

MS. TRICKETT:

Yes. You were looking for the list for '18-'19?

MR. CROSBIE:

Well, the answer would be yes.

MS. TRICKETT:

Yes, I will provide that.

MR. CROSBIE:

Where does branding strategy fit into Purchased Services, if at all?

MR. BRUCE:

Under Purchased Services, one of the things that we do is media advertising

buys, so they would fit in there.

MR. CROSBIE:

We're getting a list for this last year, then, are we? The list of expenditures?

MS. TRICKETT:

A list of expenditures for the Professional Services line?

MR. CROSBIE:

Yes.

MS. TRICKETT:

Yes.

MR. CROSBIE:

Thank you.

Total

budgeted for Operating Accounts is $225,100 more than the revised for '18-'19.

Can you explain why the increase?

MS. TRICKETT:

There were allocations in

'18-'19, the majority of which were late under the Professional Services and the

Purchased Services lines, for which were not fully expended during the fiscal

year. That would relate to the majority of the savings across the Operating

category.

MR. CROSBIE:

So, why is the same budget

needed this year?

MS. TRICKETT:

I will defer to Glenn Bruce

if necessary, but my understanding is with this office the needs are revisited

on an annual basis and the intention for that budget for the coming '19-'20 year

is currently being determined. But I will let Glenn speak to that if he feels –

MR. BRUCE:

That is right. The planning

is still underway for a lot of the public awareness campaigns and those types of

things. They arise from year to year and after that planning is done we will

have a better idea what departments need.

MR. CROSBIE:

Can you explain what outside

contracts have been used over the last 12 months?

MS. TRICKETT:

We do not have a list of

that here, but the list that we have promised for the Professional Services for

'18-'19 will certainly outline any external consultants that were utilized.

MR. CROSBIE:

Thank you for that.

MS. TRICKETT:

You're welcome.

MR. CROSBIE:

What media marketing

campaigns have taken place over the last 12 months?

MR. BRUCE:

I do not have those details

with me, but we can get them for you.

MR. CROSBIE:

I look forward to that.

Thank

you.

MR. BRUCE:

Okay.

MR. CROSBIE:

What publications or reports

has the branch published over the last 12 years, and what was the production

cost for each?

MR. BRUCE:

I would have to get that for

you, as well.

MR. CROSBIE:

Thank you.

I look

forward to that.

Mr.

Chair.

CHAIR:

Further questions, Ms.

Coffin?

MS. COFFIN:

Yes, please. Thank you.

So, I

get anything under 2.3, right?

CHAIR:

2.3, correct.

MS. COFFIN:

Lovely. Thank you.

Let us

start with Communications. How many comm staff are there across government?

MR. BRUCE:

I will get it for you to

give you the exact, but we have 10 in the Communications division, and then

there is a director for each of the departments, and a media manager for all but

Office of the Status of Women. So, I think we are around 39.

MS. COFFIN:

That is pretty good.

Did you

know there is only one legislative drafter?

MR. BRUCE:

I did not.

MS. COFFIN:

No. Just as a comparison.

Supplies – I noticed that the replenishment of Supplies under 2.3.01 was pretty

significant. We see Supplies over in 2.3.02 as being a fairly big chunk we

expect to spend in 2019-2020, and another fairly large chunk again in Policy,

Planning and Coordination. What's under Supplies there?

MS. TRICKETT:

I'm going to ask Katie Norman to speak to the Supplies under the 2.3.02 and the

2.3.03.

MS. COFFIN:

Okay.

MS. TRICKETT:

In regard to the Supplies under 2.3.01, the categories under Supplies are paper,

pens and those types of things. With the communications and marketing branch,

any materials that they would produce in-house for any work associated with that

would come under that line object. As I referenced, Katie Norman will be able to

speak to the specifics for those other two activities.

MS. COFFIN:

I was having some trouble getting my head around how many stickies and paper

clips would $20,000 buy, right?

MS. NORMAN:

I can provide more detail, Ms. Coffin, on that.

MS. COFFIN:

Lovely.

MS. NORMAN:

Under Supplies for Public Engagement 2.3.02, that includes $15,000 which is our

annual licensing fee for the online engagement portal, Engage NL. Then, under

Policy, Planning and Coordination the large bulk of the spend there is for

licensing fees for a program called NVivo, which is our engagement data analysis

software. So that's some specialized tools that only our office uses across

government, so we absorb those costs.

MS. COFFIN:

Okay, lovely. Thank you very much.

Okay,

let's go back to the attrition model. I know that you said you've cut a number

of vacant positions that haven't been filled. Has any of the work that would've

fallen under the vacant positions that have been left unfilled and are falling

into this attrition model, are they being captured at all in Professional

Services?

MS. DAY:

I would say, no, not to my knowledge.

MS. COFFIN:

Okay. Thank you.

Let's

move to 2.3.02, Salaries. We're seeing a substantial decrease in Salaries under

Public Engagement to the tune of $226,000 plus or minus a couple of hundred. Is

there attrition there and, if so, what were the positions that were cut?

MS. TRICKETT:

No, there were no positions cut in that office. That's simply – sorry.

OFFICIAL:

(Inaudible.)

MS. TRICKETT:

I can keep going?

MS. COFFIN:

Okay.

MS. TRICKETT:

Sorry.

MS. COFFIN:

That's okay.

MS. TRICKETT:

The reduction from budget to budget in that salary line does not reflect any

reduction in positions. It is just a reflection of positions that are

anticipated to be vacant for the coming fiscal year.

MS. COFFIN:

How many positions? That's $226,000, that's a fair chunk of change.

MS. NORMAN:

Wanda, if you'd like, I can speak to that.

If you

actually sum Public Engagement and the Policy, Planning and Coordination office,

those both fall under my responsibilities. The total has been maintained at

$1.67 million in overall spending. That's been looking strategically at the

positions that we have in light of government's efficiency mandate and attrition

over time because there have been a number of reductions, particularly on the

policy side, over the last number of years.

There

are no positions that have been eliminated, as Wanda has stated; however, we are

working together across those two divisions to deploy government's public

engagement activities.

MS. COFFIN:

That's why we see the increase in 2.3.03 under the Policy, Planning.

MS. NORMAN:

Exactly.

MS. COFFIN:

You see it go up there.

MS. NORMAN:

The amount is the same, we just sort of rightsize both to reflect the staff

complement.

MS. COFFIN:

Okay, so more money is now being spent on Public Engagement and less on Policy,

Planning and Coordination, yes?

MS. NORMAN:

Actually the converse.

MS. COFFIN:

All right. That's reassuring, actually.

Let's

see what else here. There's an extra almost $20,000 spent on Purchased Services.

What was that all about?

MS. NORMAN:

of public engagement. Last year, there was a new policy put in place related to

accessible public engagement. When I looked at my budget this year, I felt it

was important to put in an allocation that would allow us to be able to provide

some of those services for major public engagement activities. It's been

reprofiled from other areas.

MS. COFFIN:

That would be things like sign language

interpretation –

MS. NORMAN:

Correct.

MS. COFFIN:

– or alternate language

interpretation and those types of things.

MS. NORMAN:

Correct.

MS. COFFIN:

Okay, good job on that then.

Let's

see, Professional Services, Policy, Planning and Coordination; they have an

extra almost $391,000. What was the planning chunk that was almost $400,000

there?

MS. TRICKETT:

That reflects cost associated with shared services. As I spoke to you previously

under the Executive Support activity, that money is budgeted under the

Department of Finance and transferred in if and when required.

MS. COFFIN:

So the shared services, again, are what?

MS. NORMAN:

I can speak to that.

Part of

the responsibility of the Policy, Planning and Coordination office is to support

horizontal efficiency initiatives. One of the things that we have been

responsible for is serving as the project management office for government's

public commitments related to sharing back-office functions across the broader

public sector. As part of that, we had a contract this year with an external

consultant to measure a baseline of back-office functions and identify

opportunities for efficiency in a manner consistent with government's attrition

and broader public sector commitments through collective bargaining. As part of

that, we're preparing a report to the Cabinet on opportunities.

MS. COFFIN:

Excellent. Who was awarded that contract? That was a rather lucrative contract.

MS. NORMAN:

That was awarded as part of a broader master service agreement going back to

2015 under the transformational change initiative with Ernst & Young.

MS. COFFIN:

Thank you.

Do you

have any preliminary results on what they thought would be reasonable shared

services and what those back-room efficiencies were?

MS. NORMAN:

Sure.

I can't

speak to that at this time in that the report is being finalized for Cabinet

consideration, but government has been publicly updating

The Way Forward website with progress

on shared services, as those have been identified over time. Certainly, it would

be my expectation that there would be a public release of information when it is

appropriate to do so.

MS. COFFIN:

Okay, I look forward to seeing that.

Grants

and Subsidies; as we move along here there is exactly $3,219,900, consistent

from budget to revised to Estimate. Who's getting these Grants and Subsidies and

what are they for?

MS. NORMAN:

That funding falls into three categories. The first is just about $2.5 million

that goes to the 34 Community Youth Networks throughout the province. That's

their core operational funding, supporting at-risk youth throughout our

province.

It also

includes $206,000 in core operating funding for the Community Sector Council.

That's part of a multi-year funding agreement with that organization. It also

includes just over $400,000 in project-based grants for what's called the Grants

to Youth Organizations program. That's year-over-year funding on a one-time

basis to organizations providing supports to youth throughout our province.

MS. COFFIN:

I'm a little confused as to why these youth initiatives – and that's big, big

chunks of money – are falling under Planning, Policy and Coordination of

Executive Council, as opposed to a department that's more directly involved in

servicing youth. Does anyone have the rationale for why it sits there and not

in, early childhood education or another department that's perhaps a little more

targeted towards youth?

MS. DAY:

I think over the past number of years – it is the office that Katie is the ADM

for that has been responsible for the provision of these grants to youth.

The

work that is done and the decisions that are made on the funding is done in

consultation with all those other departments that would be supporting youth,

but it's coordinated and centralized within one division within government.

MS. COFFIN:

Okay. Thank you. I do believe that's –

CHAIR:

Your time is expired.

MS. COFFIN:

Yeah.

CHAIR:

Mr. Crosbie, do you have any

other questions on 2.3.01 to 2.3.03?

MR. CROSBIE:

Yes, thank you.

Did I

understand from Ms. Norman that there is a report to go to Cabinet on – did you

use the word opportunities?

MS. NORMAN:

Yes, Mr. Crosbie, I did use the term opportunities.

MR. CROSBIE:

What kind of opportunities?

MS. NORMAN:

Well, the shared services project, government's public commitment is to look at

opportunities for shared services across back office functions focused on

finance, human resources, information technology and supply chain.

example of opportunities that are currently being pursued and are publicly noted

would be consolidation of payroll functions, collections, the recent

consolidation of civil engineering services within core government and –

MR. CROSBIE:

Sure, I get the general idea.

So the

object of all this is to find efficiencies and save money. Is that right?

MS. NORMAN:

Yes, that's correct, and better services.

MR. CROSBIE:

Improve service.

MS. NORMAN:

Improve service.

MR. CROSBIE:

And do it more efficiently.

MS. NORMAN:

Yes, that's correct.

MR. CROSBIE:

Okay. Has this project implemented and identified any budgetary savings yet?

MS. NORMAN:

It would be premature to comment on this at the time, as we're just finalizing

the initial baseline information for Cabinet consideration.

MR. CROSBIE:

Well, I think you said that there are regular updates on the website, but they

seem to be somewhat vague about progress. There's no actual quantification or

measurement of progress, is there?

MS. NORMAN:

The intention is to provide real-time updates as they're available. I would

defer – obviously, that's a Cabinet decision on how much information they wish

to release.

MR. CROSBIE:

Well, just an observation. It seems vague updates to me.

Thank

you.

CHAIR:

Ms. Coffin, do you have any

further questions?

MS. COFFIN:

No, thank you.

CHAIR:

Shall 2.3.01 to 2.3.03

inclusive carry?

All

those in favour.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

motion, subheads 2.3.01 through 2.3.03 carried.

CLERK:

2.4.01.

CHAIR:

2.4.01.

Mr.

Crosbie.

MR. CROSBIE:

Thank you.

Could

we get a list of all the positions whose salaries are included herein and also

an explanation of the variance across the line item, please?

MS. TRICKETT:

Yes, I can provide you that listing, and you wanted to know …

MR. CROSBIE:

The reasons for the variance across the item.

MS. TRICKETT:

Across Salaries.

MR. CROSBIE:

Yes.

MS. TRICKETT:

The savings that are reflected there from last year is a result of several

vacancies in that office during the year.

MR. CROSBIE:

The result of –?

MS. TRICKETT:

Vacancies of several positions.

MR. CROSBIE:

Vacancies. I'm sorry.

That

seems to be a theme, if I'm not mistaken.

MS. TRICKETT:

The vacancies were timing. It was delayed recruitment, trying to get those

positions staffed up. There was also a portion of time where the departmental

controller had left the division and was replaced with another departmental

controller at a lower salary, so you would see differences in salary grade

associated with that.

MR. CROSBIE:

Yes, and I'm sure these things happen in an operation as large as government.

Revenue

- Provincial, where did the $3,300 in revenue come from, please?

MS. TRICKETT:

The revenue that's reflected here is a grouping of miscellaneous revenues. So,

it would result in, for example – I'm not sure how familiar you are with the

P-Card initiative in government, but, effectively, that has replaced a lot of

our petty cash allocations across our department.

When an

employee is granted petty cash they are set up with a receivable, as they are

owing of that money to government. When they turn that money back in, that money

is receipted as miscellaneous revenue. This activity is sort of the general,

operational catch-all for the Cabinet Secretariat, the Office of the Executive

Council, and that reflects that return of funding.

It also

would reflect, for example, if somebody had an overpayment in salaries that

cannot be written against the expenditure in the fiscal year for which it

incurred, so it was salaries that were overpaid in a prior fiscal year and it

was recovered in this fiscal year. It's just an accounting treatment of how you

have to record the revenue and when it relates.

MR. CROSBIE:

Am I understanding it

correctly this is kind of like petty cash advances?

MS. TRICKETT:

Correct. It would relate to money that had been given to a government employee

to house and control petty cash for a division that has now been turned in

because they have been given a Purchasing Card instead, so there's no need to

have cash on hand, if you will, in that area. So, when that money is returned,

it is paid back to government coffers.

MR. CROSBIE:

All right, or is could be as

well salary overpayments which got repaid.

MS. TRICKETT:

Correct.

MR. CROSBIE:

Since it's $3,300 in the big

picture, I'm not going to agonize over it.

Thank

you.

CHAIR:

Any other question, Mr.

Crosbie, on 2.4.01?

MR. CROSBIE:

No.

CHAIR:

Ms. Coffin?

MS. COFFIN:

Thank you.

Let's

go along the theme of horizontal efficiencies.

I note

that this seems to be the only department with financial administration as a

subsection, and it's almost a million dollars; it's three-quarter of a million

dollars.

Any

reason why this has not been manifested as a horizontal efficiency somewhere?

MS. TRICKETT:

The Financial Administration division here reflects – actually it's my division

and it reflects all of the financial components that provide the general

operational and financial services to multiple departments. So, we're referred

to as a cluster controller group.

other departments, you will notice that the controller unit reports directly in

through that department; Department of Health, for example, Department of

Transportation and Works.

For

mine, I'm responsible, and my employees are responsible, for providing these

services to the entirety of Executive Council, the Department of Finance, the

Public Service Commission and the Consolidated Funds Services.

So, I

report directly in through the clerk of the Executive Council, as well as the

Premier, and this is where my activity is housed to provide services for those

four departments.

MS. COFFIN:

So where are the other

services? Where do the other departments – where do we see their financial

administration services manifest?

MS. TRICKETT:

I can't speak specifically, but oftentimes you'll see a corporate services

activity or something like that in that department. It may contain some of their

policy people. I guess it depends on that particular department.

MS. COFFIN:

Okay. Good to know.

Thank

you.

MS. TRICKETT:

You're welcome.

CHAIR:

No further questions?

MR. CROSBIE:

No, Sir.

CLERK:

2.4.01.

CHAIR:

Shall 2.4.01 carry?

All

those in favour, ‘aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

motion, subhead 2.4.01 carried.

CLERK:

2.5.01.

CHAIR:

2.5.01.

Changeover?

CLERK:

We need to change over.

CHAIR:

Intergovernmental and

Indigenous Affairs.

We'll

take a short break as we have to change some staff over.

Recess

CLERK:

2.5.01 to 2.5.02.

CHAIR:

Okay we're going to do items

2.5.01 and 2.5.02.

Minister Osborne, if you want to introduce your staff first.

MR. OSBORNE:

Yes, I'll ask my staff to

introduce themselves.

MS. HEARN:

Good morning.

My name

is Patricia Hearn; I'm the Deputy Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.

MS. TRICKETT:

Wanda Trickett, Departmental

Controller.

MS. HUSSEY:

Cindy Hussey, Assistant

Deputy Clerk.

MR. BRUCE:

Glenn Bruce, Associate

Secretary to Cabinet, Communications.

MS. ELLIOTT:

Susan Elliott, Executive

Assistant to the Minister.

CHAIR:

I think everybody else has

been introduced.

Ms.

Coffin, I don't know if you want opening questions this time on items 2.5.01 and

2.5.02.

MS. COFFIN:

Okay, let's see here. Sure, I can do that.

Let's

go with some of the technical questions first. I notice Salaries are all over

the place. The budgeted and revised came in almost twice as much as budgeted and

the current Estimate is somewhere in the middle of both of those. What's going

on there?

MS. HEARN:

The revised budget for

2018-'19 includes the $195,000 that was severance and related benefits for one

employee. There was a new ADM position that was created and that added the

$87,800 to that number, offset by some vacancies.

That's

the increase in the revised budget for '18-'19. For '19-'20, obviously, we don't

have the severance and related benefits included in that and it does reflect an

additional portion to reflect the assistant deputy minister position.

MS. COFFIN:

Okay.

noticed Grants and Subsidies haven't changed at all. What's included in that?

MS. HEARN:

That Grants and Subsidies is

the contribution that we make on behalf of the government to what's called the

Canadian secretariat for intergovernmental services, I believe. They provide all

the administrative support to all federal-provincial meetings, whether it's the

Premier, the ministers or deputy ministers.

MS. COFFIN:

Thank you.

Transportation, $56,000 of revised over budget and then an increase of almost

double in this year's Estimates. Are we communicating more or transporting more?

MS. HEARN:

I think we're transporting

more. Two reasons for the increase in terms of '18-'19; first, it was offset by

some reductions in travel in non-executives. We had more executive travel offset

by the reduction, to some extent, by non-executive.

The

other reason for the increase was the fact that we did have some extraordinary

travel related to NAFTA renegotiations. That happened during the year. We did

have a NAFTA challenge through Kruger and Corner Brook Pulp and Paper that was

launched in the US. That required extraordinary travel in that particular year.

This year, it's to reflect the increase in the travel at the executive level,

offset by travel in the non-executive level.

MS. COFFIN:

Okay, thank you.

Go back

to that new ADM. How does the new ADM square with the attrition model?

MS. HEARN:

As I think has been said

previously, it's been set in terms of dollar amounts. We're working towards that

and managed – and I will let Wanda speak to it – more holistically within, what

I'll call the department but the broader office.

MS. COFFIN:

Thank you.

Let us

go to Indigenous Affairs. Grants and Subsidies; there's an extra $90,000 which

is a very wonderful thing.

CHAIR:

Excuse me, Ms. Coffin, we're

going to keep that for next. We're just dealing strictly with 2.5.01 and 2.5.02.

MS. COFFIN:

Oh, I'm sorry. I got

excited. 2.5 …?

CHAIR:

2.5.01 and 2.5.02, keeping

2.5.03 –

MS. COFFIN:

And 2.5.03?

CHAIR:

No, not 2.5.03 right now.

MS. COFFIN:

Oh, okay then.

Then,

let's go over here. Is government now making the effort to ensure Indigenous

groups are at the table when decisions regarding them are being made? As an

example, they were not properly consulted in the early days of Muskrat Falls or

when cuts to Black Tickle were made.

Indigenous people have the right to be part of decision-making that affects

them. Has government developed any kind of policy on ensuring this happens?

MR. OSBORNE:

I think that would be the

next

section as well.

CHAIR:

That would be Indigenous

Affairs.

MS. COFFIN:

Okay, yeah, that's the

secretariat. Sorry, I'm new.

CHAIR:

That's okay. We have to

change some staff over.

Mr.

Crosbie.

MR. CROSBIE:

Now that they have a chance

to consider the question, that will increase the quality of the answer, I'm

sure.

If you

have a surge requirement, such as a negotiation like what the government likes

to describe as the Atlantic Accord negotiations, where would that fit in?

MS. HEARN:

I can only speak for my own

case, coming out of Intergovernmental Affairs – and we participated in those, as

you are aware – we did it, really, through a reallocation of resources and

people in terms of directing them to that and in terms of the travel to support

that. They wouldn't be reflected in these numbers, per se.

MR. CROSBIE:

What are you saying? You're

more of a coordinating body within government when a negotiation with the

central government occurs?

MS. HEARN:

It would depend. We are certainly a coordinating piece, being Intergovernmental

Affairs and if the discussions are with the federal government. We would also

work, obviously, closely and as part of the team with the other line

departments, be it Finance, Natural Resources or whomever it might be.

MR. CROSBIE:

I'm on to 2.5.02. That's in

order, Mr. Chair?

CHAIR:

That's correct.

MR. CROSBIE:

The Salaries went over

budget by $75,100. Can you explain, please, why that happened?

MS. HEARN:

Yes. There was $101,000 severance and related benefit for two employees, and

then offset through a $26,000 reduction that was attained throughout the year to

give us the net difference.

MR. CROSBIE:

In Transportation and

Communications it seems that savings were found and more savings may be found in

'19-'20. Can you give an explanation for that?

MS. HEARN:

I think I had previously mentioned that we had more of the increase in the

travel reflected in the executive level, and so with a reduction in the

non-executive level and a concerted effort to reduce the travel – more

conference calls, that sort of approach.

MR. CROSBIE:

In the revised for 2018-'19,

Professional Services, we have a round number there, $100,000. Is that because

the full cost, at the time this was prepared, was not then known and that was

the best estimate?

MS. HEARN:

That cost reflects access to services not otherwise available to us, specialized

services, to support trade negotiations, trade analysis. In this particular

case, that would have been the amount available to us, I believe is the correct

answer, and so we used what was available to us.

Wanda,

I don't know if –

MR. CROSBIE:

I'm not quite sure I follow

that, because what was budgeted was $119,000.

MS. HEARN:

That's right. We had $119,000 budgeted, we were reducing our costs. What was

available to us was the $100,000 and that's what we used, because we used –

MR. CROSBIE:

I'm not sure I understand the meaning of available then.

MS. HEARN:

In order to balance our budgets or to reach the targets that we needed, we were

able to take $19,000 of that and move it into the other categories.

MR. CROSBIE:

I see. Are we to understand that $100,000 has actually been expended?

MS. HEARN:

Yes.

MR. CROSBIE:

That's the exact amount then?

MS. HEARN:

Yes.

MR. CROSBIE:

How will $118,900 be spent this coming year, or this year?

MS. HEARN:

The options available to us, and for what we've used them in my term in the last

couple of years, have been through, as I said, getting expert trade analysis to

support either ongoing discussions or negotiations, or to do that analysis of

ongoing projects. This would be funding that we would disburse through

Department of Justice, if I'm correct, in terms of we're getting that

specialized expertise from legal firms as an example.

MR. CROSBIE:

Do I understand then, that Justice sources the expertise and you pay for it?

MS. HEARN:

We have an allocation for it for trade-specific activities.

MR. CROSBIE:

You're saying all of that $118,900 is going to be trade related?

MS. HEARN:

That's the intent. In the past, when we haven't required it for those purposes,

we've done some other activities, some trade analysis in specific sectors, but

in my term, in my time, it's been supporting the trade legal analysis.

MR. CROSBIE:

I'm still perplexed by how you can be so specific and accurate as to budget, or

spend $100,000 this year, but then apparently be so accurate as to forecast an

expenditure of $118,900 next year or this present year.

MS. HEARN:

This amount was the amount that's been traditionally within the trade

secretariat that was moved over to Intergovernmental Affairs a couple of years

ago and that was the amount, the $119,000. We used this to, as I say, contribute

towards any legal costs, as an example, that may need to be done to support the

detailed trade analysis.

So, we

would have made that contribution available to support the Department of Justice

as they contract out – if I'm using the terminology correctly – with legal firms

and that would've been our capacity to support the activity that they would have

undertaken.

MR. CROSBIE:

Could you provide a list of the expenditures under that $100,000 item?

MS. HEARN:

Yes.

MR. CROSBIE:

Thank you for that.

The

Grants and Subsidies, we had $4,400 last year having been spent out of an

envelope of $5,900. What's the item for and why not all funds distributed?

MS. HEARN:

So that funding supports, in the same vein as I discussed earlier, the

secretariat that used to be referred to as the Agreement on Internal Trade, now

called the Canada Free Trade Agreement. So that's a secretariat that supports

all the provinces, and our bill last year was $4,400 as opposed to the $5,900.

MR. CROSBIE:

So, in a sense, you don't control the expenditure. You estimate it and you pay

the bill they send you.

MS. HEARN:

We have a role on the Management Committee to oversee all of this. So, I can't

tell you specifically why the amount was less than it was originally indicated

to be last year, but that is the order of magnitude and that's the amount that

it's traditionally been.

MR. CROSBIE:

Were any of these monies we're looking at here spent on what the government

refers to as the Atlantic Accord negotiations?

MS. HEARN:

There would have been some travel. None of the Grants and Subsidies, but there

would have been employee travel in terms of the meetings with the Government of

Canada.

MR. CROSBIE:

That's the only character of expenditure with respect to the Atlantic Accord, is

that right?

MS. HEARN:

We may have used some of the Professional Services money for some legal advice

in terms of that. I'm just trying to think in terms of timing, so that would

have been right before the end of March.

MR. CROSBIE:

Can you state whether any

money has been spent to study the legal implications on

section 92A of the

Constitution as it relates to our ability to tax hydro power export?

MS. HEARN:

Not in my budget there

hasn't been.

MR. CROSBIE:

Thank you.

CHAIR:

Your time has expired, Mr.

Crosbie.

Ms.

Coffin, do you have any further questions on …

MS. COFFIN:

I'm good.

CHAIR:

You have questions on 2.5.01

and 2.5.02?

other questions?

Mr.

Lane.

MR. LANE:

Thank you.

couple of quick ones. The first one under 2.5.01, Transportation and

Communications, I know it's been asked, but I just want to get some

clarification.

So, we

budgeted $32,100, spent $88,200, and that had to do with the federal loan

guarantee 2, I think, the second loan guarantee, I believe you said is what

drove that number up in the travel. Was that correct?

MS. HEARN:

Actually, no.

MR. LANE:

No?

MS. HEARN:

It was the NAFTA renegotiations.

MR. LANE:

The NAFTA, okay, yes.

So that

drove that up. That was sort of a one-off, a special circumstance, but yet we're

doubling what was budgeted for last year. So, I'm just wondering what the

rationale is, given that that's now taken care of. Is there something else

extraordinary that's come up this year, or why the doubling?

MS. HEARN:

I would say two things. First of all, it's been offset by a reduction in the

non-executive level –

MR. LANE:

Yeah.

MS. HEARN:

– because now we have the ADM as opposed to someone in the non-executive level

travelling. So, that's one of the contributions.

The

other has been that there has been a lot of demand in terms of

federal-provincial meetings, and we've seen an increase in that. As well I would

say in terms of the trade negotiations that go broader than even NAFTA; we've

seen some of the discussions with respect to the Trans-Pacific Partnership one,

there's a China – all of these things can vary –

MR. LANE:

Okay.

MS. HEARN:

– depending on what's happening in the world, but we've seen a number of those

that have taken on a greater prominence, I guess, on the intergovernmental

world.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

Somewhat relating to that, when I look at 2.5.02, in the description it talks

about: “Appropriations provide for review and analysis of intergovernmental

issues relating to social, fiscal, resource, economic, constitutional and trade

policy …” and “intergovernmental negotiations in those areas.”

So,

just focusing on the resource piece and intergovernmental negotiations, granted

I represent an urban district, but I'm sure like a lot of Members and the

parties, I hear from people from all around the province. I've heard from a

number of people who have serious concerns around our fishery and so on and

policies that I think a lot of people believe need to be changed as it relates

to our fishery, including some form of joint management and so on.

there was anything happening in that regard, I assume that it would fall under

sort of that category under this area. I'm sure, obviously, the Department of

Fisheries would be involved as well, but, nonetheless, it should fall under here

because it is a resource.

I'm

just wondering, has there been any initiatives taken or are there any

initiatives planned from the prospective of Intergovernmental Affairs to meet

with the federal government to talk about the challenges around our fishery and

the potential to change some arrangements in the future?

MS. HEARN:

I'll have to, I guess, refer to the Minister of Fisheries for the specifics of

that. What I can say is that this group and this

section of our department

oversee, depending on the year, approximately 60 intergovernmental agreements

across a whole realm of the government, obviously. Predominantly, they're with

here is supporting those agreements.

I am

aware, but, as I say, perhaps better addressed by the Minister of Fisheries.

breadth of the government and, of course, all the sectors, and we support the

department in those discussions.

MR. LANE:

Am I to understand, then, that such an initiative, as it relates to our fishery,

would have to be something that would be driven by the Department