Manitoba Hansard — Sitting 6B (32nd Legislature, 4th Session)

32-4-6b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Thursday, 14 March, 1985. Time-8:00p.m. THRONE SPEECH DEBATE MR. SPEAKER, Hon. J. Walding: On the proposed motion of the Honourable· Member for Wolseley and the amendment thereto proposed by the Honourable Leader of the Opposition, the Honourable Member for Niakwa has 40 minutes. MR. A. KOVNATS: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Every time I get up to speak in this Chamber when it comes to Throne Speech Debate or Budget Debate, the gallery is almost empty. A MEMBER: Not here to cheer you on, Abe. MR. A. KOVNATS: Well, Mr.

Speaker, I appreciate the Minister of Labour being here this evening because I have some very very pointed remarks to make to him after the display before the adjournment this afternoon. I would like to take this opportunity, Mr. Speaker, to congratulate you on the beginning of this new Session. We have great trust; we know your honesty and dedication to the job and the leadership in presiding over the Chamber with a fair and firm and even-handed approach.

I would add, by welcoming remarks, to the Member for Fort Garry, the traditional strength and expertise that comes from a representative from that area has not been lessened or diminished with the election of our newest member. I would like to also congratulate the Honourable Member for The Pas on his appointment to the Cabinet. He happens to be a constituent of mine out in Niakwa. I'm not going to embarrass him and ask him which way he will be voting in the next election, but I think that if he's looking for the best man in the area, I know which way he will be voting.

I would like to also welcome the new Deputy Clerk and the Pages who have been appointed for this Session, and a welcome back to Gordon Mackintosh, who is sitting right here in front of us this evening. Congratulations to the Mover and the Seconder of the speech. I would like to take this opportunity, while I notice that there is somebody in the press gallery, to just give you a personal welcome. This will probably be the last opportunity that you will have to listen to me speaking while they are government.

I have a warm feeling and I would just like to express my very very best and warmest feelings to the Member for Kildonan. We miss her very very much in this Chamber. We've had our political differences, but our love and best wishes go out to her. Mr. Speaker, a disgusting display by the Minister of Labour, to try to take political advantage of a situation where people take their own lives. No one could find humour in such proceedings. lt reviles me to believe that the Minister would not apologize to the House; it reviles me to believe that he will not apologize to both sides of the House.

I have never condemned, on a personal basis, any member in this Legislature and I hope and I pray that the Minister's actions before we adjourned will not influence me in the future and change my attitude toward my colleagues in the Chamber.

I've got to point out, the Government House Leader defended him, defended his actions. lt upsets me that even though they are colleagues that he felt he had to do so; and the Member for Thompson -and I'm not going to speak too much about the Member for Thompson because he's not here to defend himself - but the Member for Thompson sitting there clucking like a chicken; and the Member for Ste. Rose who will be no longer in the Legislature after this Session -or when the next election is called because he's chosen not to run -he will not be walking out of this Chamber with his head high , Mr. Speaker.

To make a remark -his wife couldn't hear him -well, I guess if that's what his wife said, I have no reason to not believe it, but I think I've got to retract what I said before where I didn't go after somebody on a personal basis. lt was something that was said in the last Session where the Member for Ste.

Rose, who was the Minister at that time, made a remark about might is right and I made fun about it, but he explained to me what he meant by might is right and I believed him. lt wasn't a matter of ramming it down somebody's throat because we have more members than you; it was for another reason and I accepted that. But I don't think the ex Minister of Government Services will be able to walk with his head up too high. Again, the Speech from the Throne which says little and accomplishes even less.

I have great difficulty - and maybe I'm not the most intelligent person -but I have great difficulty going through the Speech from the Throne and trying to decipher it to see what they are trying to tell me. lt will probably be the last opportunity we'll be allowed to debate on the Throne Speech at this Thirty-Second Legislature, Mr. Speaker, particularly with the New Democrats as government. I understand why the Premier is reluctant to call an election. I think the Premier knows, as most of the other people in the Province of Manitoba know, that the New Democrats cannot win the next election.

If he is waiting for an opportune time where he thinks that we will not be prepared , let me advise, we are ready, we are prepared. 137 We are ready to fight an election; we are ready to win; and we are ready to form the next government, a Progressive Conservative Government. Before I get into any great detail , I would reminisce for a few minutes about some of the factors and reasons and how members get elected and how we get to be members. You know, Mr. Speaker, how many people are involved in just seeing that we get here at one time in our lives? I guess our destinies are predetermined.

We start off in childhood and I guess we're headed toward a particular goal, even though we don't know what that goal is going to be. The influence of my mother and

Thureday, 14 March, 1185 father and my family, my dad's brother, my Uncle Alec who, by the way, will be 90 years of age on March 28th, and in good health and in good spirits. I do reminisce a little bit, it was my Uncle Alec who taught me how to drive a car and I've not had an accident of any consequence; I had a good teacher. A MEMBER: You scare me sometimes . Abe. MA. A. KOVNATS: Sometimes. I'd also like to pay tribute to my wife's mother and father and her family for the Influence that they've had on me and shaping my destiny.

The teachers at the schools that I attended, Champlain School, Machray School and I'm sure that some of the other members attended some of these schools also. A MEMBER: Champlain. MA. A. KOVNATS: Champlain, yes. Miss Hallen . A MEMBER: Now my kids attend Champlain. MA. A. KOVNATS: Oh, well I attended, it was just a few years before your children. King George V, Queen Elizabeth, Norwood Collegiate, University of Manitoba - a lot of schools in the area that Mr. Speaker represents at this time.

I want to thank all those people who had an influence on me, through the schools and through business and through sports and my neighbours in politics and recreation. I think all of these associations have helped to make me a better member. Mr. Speaker. A special thank you to a Mr. Bud Udell. Bud is at the Health Sciences right now and he helped me to have the determination to succeed and win. Bud is involved in his own fight today and I know that he will be a winner also. Let me direct our attention to the heading of "Technology". I read what it said about Workplace Innovation Centre for our province.

The Honourable Minister of Labour made reference to it, and I would imagine that this a location where business and labour and government could all get together so that they can discuss the future of business, workplace safety, the environment, everything to do with future business . I don't know If there has been a location already decided but, instead of knocking this research building over on the old St. Paul's College grounds, why don't we use an area like that to develop some of the things that this government professes to support?

Instead of knocking it, let's support it, let's get in there and do something about it, and the Honourable Minister of Energy is there. You know we've spoken about this on so many occasion, about the opportunity of using electrical power, hydrogen, and developing hydrogen power, which is 20, 25 years off in the future, but we've been talking about it for five years now at least, so that's five years closer to fruition. So let's even think about lt; if the Hon ourable Minister would just take it as a suggestion.

I'm not in complete support of his development of hydro power through Limestone at this time. but I'm not against it, Mr. Speaker, and I'm certainly in favour of developing the North. I am the official critic on workers' compensation and I'm going to talk on workers' compensation a little, Mr. 138 Speaker, because there is really nothing in the Throne Speech, so I guess that if there's anything that has to be developed on workers' compensation or workplace safety, I guess I'm the one that has to do it.

Since 1981 the Workers' Compensation Board of Manitoba, for the most part, is going unchecked and has lost its accountabili ty. The system of workers compensation is worth preserving, Mr. Speaker, as a safeguard to protect the workers' rights to financial stability which might be lost without this system. There is a need for reform and changes should be considered for the sake of improvement. We don't have a rebate system in Manitoba, a way of saying thank you to the companies who endeavour to see that there's safety within their limits.

Other jurisdictions have implemented a rebate system for experiences of safety training and safety record. This is not foolproof, Mr. Speaker , but does have an experience of reducing accidents and rewarding companies who can reduce their accident rate. The present administration has employed worker advisors to train and educate workers on safety. The cost factor of this type of staff could be reduced and employer groups would be responsible to themselves for increased costs due to increased claims.

A good safety program would encourage business to locate and expand in Manitoba as the benefits can be seen immmedlately as a direct result of safety benefits, the merit rebate. There has to be a control on the ever increasing rate on workers' compensation. There has to be a control. During 1982, 1983, 1984, the rate of increase has averaged 49 percent; one increase of 9 percent, and two increases of 20 percent each. The government has justified these increases because of increased payouts, and that's legitimate; higher wages, that's legitimate; and the cost of more staff to run the business of safety.

When employer groups ask about the 20 percent increase for next year, they are told it should have been 70 percent. I compare that with drowning in 20 feet of water, rather than drowning In 70 feet of water; the final result is the same. The Minister responsible has hinted the rate of increase In 1985 would continue for another five years to bring the Workmen's Compensation Board into a funded state. What has happened to the reserve fund of $88,955,892.00? it was shown in the Workmen's Compensation Board 1980 Annual Report as to the state of the pension fund.

As 1985 is being billed as the Year of the Youth, the Provincial Auditor has indicated the reserve fund will be eroded to the point of another $11 million deficit this year. The board has in three years expended $1 00 million alone from the pension fund. I want to advise the youth, because it is the Year of the Youth, that this is their heritage. You have to replace $100 million in the pension fund. The government, the board, must be regulated by The Workers Compensation Act; they cannot operate on a deficit. The unfunded liabilities must be balanced for further expenses.

If the government will not follow the rules about operating without a deficit, I suggest they change the act and be more responsible. - (Interjection) - I'm glad the Member for Thompson is able to hear me.

Thursd8J, 14 March, 1115 we were talking about the Limestone Hydro Electric Generating station, and I understand his feelings. He represents an area in the north, and he is trying to protect some of the people in the north that he feels very strongly about, the ones that send him here, the ones that support him, and the Member for Thompson was endeavouring to embarrass this side of the House the other day. A MEMBER: But he failed. MR. A. KOVNATS: Yes, and he asked a question concerning Northern Manitoba being given first choice at jobs in Limestone - Northern Manitobans - and there was some action on this side.

I remember vividly him yelling across: are you opposed to it, giving Northern Manitobans first chance at the jobs at Limestone? You're damn rights I'm opposed to it. Put that in your brochure. Why do you discriminate against Manitobans from the southern part of Manitoba who need employment every bit as much as Northern Manitobans? lt's a Manitoba project. The Charter of Rights guarantees equal opportunit ies of employment for all Manitobans.

This is not an anti-north feeling, I supported many of the projects in Northern Manitoba- Churchill particularly - and I will continue to support projects in Northern Manitoba. HON. W. PARASIUK: Will the member submit to a question? MR. A. KOVNATS: Certainly. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Energy and Mines. HON. W. PARASIUK: Thank you for allowing the question. In this report from the Legislature signed by your leader, it says th at, with respect to Hydro development, employment opportunities for northerners and Natives should be ensured, unlike the recent Manfor expansion.

Are you aware that's what your leader is saying pu blicly while you are saying somet hin g differently right now? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Niakwa. MR. A. KOVNATS: The only thing I can add to what the Honourable Minister has suggested, not exclusively to Northern Manitoba; that's all. I have always supported projects in the north. Not only <�re these projects in the north to the benefit of northe rners, they should be to the benefit of the whole of Manitoba.

Why is the government, through some of the representatives from the north, tryi ng so hard to turn the southe rn Manitobans against the northern Manitobans, the northern Manitobans against the southern Manitobans? You've already been through one episode like this where you turn the francophones against the anglophones, the anglophones against the francophon es, family against family. I've been through it, I've been through it, and I can see it c·oming again. Divide and conquer, that's your project. I had some remarks here in French, Mr.

Speaker, but I can't see anybody there that can translate for me. 131 - (Int erjection) - Oh, well, maybe I will. I think the New Democratic Party, you know, where they say divide and conquer, I say unite; and I think what we should do is: donnez un coup de pied. it's my favorite saying. Donnez un coup de pied? Un coup de pied? - (Int erjection) - I'm sorry, for the Honourable Member for Ste. Rose, it was in French. What I would like to know from the Minister of Energy and for the Member for Thompson was- I have a copy of a letter here that he had sent to the Free Pr�ss.

Was it ever the intention to use the tradesmen from the North exclusively? I'm a little bit confused. I don't think that is what you were trying to get across but, when I listen to the Member for Thompson, it's hard for me to accept. I think now is the time that we should be starting the training program for the Northerners. I support the Northe rners. Let's start that training program now. lt might be sooner than required, but they've got to be ready for when we are ready to proceed with Limestone. My time is rapidly going through, Mr.

Speaker, and I have so much wisdom that I wish to impart to the New Democrats. Mr. Speaker, I was at a wedding two weeks ago and the minister, not one of the Ministers of the Crown, the minister at the wedding said something that just stayed with me so vividly. He said: "We don't know what tomorrow holds, but we know who holds tomorrow" - very very sage. lt's the children, those born and those not born, that are the future of the Province of Manitoba. But what are they going to inherit? As of March 31, 1984, you know what they're going to inherit?

A debt of $5,853,434,000; $5,543 per man, woman and child; no spoon in their mouths when they're born, but an albatross around their neck weighing $5,543, and it could get worse. lt could get worse, Mr. Speaker. If Li mestone is not developed in an orderly manner, interest rates costing $300 million to $400 million a year. All I'm sugge sting, Mr. Speaker, is go slow.

We are all looking for the development of Limestone, but go slow at a time where it's not going to cost us and the people and the kids, the future of the Province of Manitoba, those extra dollars and interest charges that aren't necessary at this time. Hydro rates have increased by 22 percent in the last three years. We can expect additional increases before too long. Why are we trying so hard to keep business out of Manitoba? Payroll tax, increased rates for Workers' Compensation, Increa sed hydro rates, irresponsible spending. My truck is not operating right now, Mr.

Speaker, and I've had to take advantage of the transit system for the last week. lt's been a lot of years since I've been on the transit system on a regular basis and I've noticed quite a few changes in the transit system. I can remember when tickets were eight for a quarter and they're 80 cents now. Did you know that tickets were 80 cents on the transit system now? Wha t happened to those green tickets I used to get at eight for a quarter? And I am sitting there and I really don't know where to look when I am sitting on a bus.

I see a lot of people I know and I say hello to them but I read the signs and looking at the signs, it says "Priority Seating for Disabled. Please Yi eld Seat on Request." A fine sign.

Thuradar, 14 March, 1985 "Please exit by rear door only. Keep arm in." I thought to myself, why does it say "Keep arm in"? Why not keep arms in? But do you know how difficult it would be to get both arms out of that window at the same time, particularly in winter? So I do understand. Another sign, it says, "Next Stop," and do you know what? lt was the same next stop, next stop, every time that sign went on; and "No Smoking" in two different ways. On one it says, "No Smoking"; the other one it's got a cigarette with a big red line over it; all signs worthy of consideration, Mr.

Speaker, as well as being safety factors for the passengers. Then, Mr. Speaker, I look up and there is a Manitoba buffalo, that new logo, and just underneath it, it says "Urban Affairs" in brackets and it says, "The operation of this transit system is financially assisted by the Government of Manitoba." Isn't that nice? What earthly use to have a sign of such nature on the bus? What earthly use? To tell everybody that it's financially assisted by the Government of Manitoba?

Do you know that there was an increase -and I don't know what the cost of that sign is, it's not an expensive looking sign -but there was an increase of five cents as of March 1st? I wonder if the cost of the sign was taken into consideration with that increase, not that it had to take effect. I can pay that extra five cents, but it's those pensioners. I think they had their rates go up by five cents also. You know I keep hearing from that side about Chicken Little and the sky is falling down and doom and gloom all the time.

You know it's their favourite remarks - Chicken Little, Chicken Little -maybe they should just pull in their necks a little bit and be a little chicken rather than Chicken Little. But it reminds me of Little Jack Horner who sat in the corner eating his Christmas pie. He put in his thumb and pulled out a plum and said, "What a good boy am I." it's probably a new rhyme that nobody has listened to before but that's what they are doing; they're walking around and "look what I have done, look what I have done, look how good I am". I tell you, they've got to have another look at themselves.

Instead of condemning us as being Chicken Little, we will be condemning them for being Little Jack Horner and wasting all kinds of money in this advertising so they can tell people, "Look what a good boy am I". Mr. Speaker, the deficit last year for'83-84 was $420 million. Why do we take taxpayers' dollars to tell taxpayers how lucky they are to have a New Democratic Party Government, to advertise certain programs as beneficial so that we can and the government, can get these programs across for assisting elderly and workplace safety and things like that?

I am not against things of that nature, but stop wasting taxpayers' money. There are 48,000 people out there who agree with me 100 percent. There are 48,000 people who have no employment today, Mr. Speaker. Three years ago when the New Democratic Party government took over in November of 1981, that figure was only 28,000, Mr. Speaker. There is 20,000 more. What is the record of the New Democratic Party since 1981; 20,000 more unemployed; 966 businesses that have gone bankrupt; 154 farm families declared bankruptcy?

Little Jack Horner again saying, "Look how good am 1." The Minister of Agriculture has announced a $6 million program. Where was he when he was needed? He is 140 needed now but he was needed before. All he could do was bash the Federal Government and bash the other Provincial Governments for not jumping right in. Let him take the bull by the horns and get things done. That's what the people elected them to do and let's not complain about some of the other things that have happened. Let them just jump right in and take a chance and it's going to be to their benefit.

Why is the government always complaining and saying it's the fault of everybody else for their shortcomings but their own? Mr. Speaker, I feel that we are In trouble in the Province of Manitoba with a New Democratic Party government.

I feel like the political prisoner facing a firing squad and the officer in charge coming up and saying, "Do you have any last requests?" and this person in front of the firing squad saying, "I don't like you, I don't like your politics, they're all wrong; I think your government is taking us down the tubes, right down the toilet." And the officer looks at him and he says, "You watch your mouth or you are going to get yourself into trouble." - (Interjection) - I thought it was kind of humorous. After all he was right in front of the firing squad but, all right then, it isn't. Mr.

Speaker, I have spoken to many of my neighbours and to many of my friends and we talk about some of the professionals that contribute to our province, the medical profession, the doctors, the dentists, the lawyers. We are doing our darnedest to try and take these people who had a position of prestige and respect in the community and we are trying to bring them down to a level where they have lost that respect and prestige in the community. I still have the greatest respect for the doctors and the lawyers and all of the people in all the professions, as well as the working man like myself.

I was talking to one doctor just the other day, Sir, a young fellow who just graduated from medical college.

He is working at Seven Oaks Hospital right now and he's looking around, and has just come back from the United States; who happen to be good friends of ours regardless of what's happening, the best friends that we ever had, and he is just on his way now down to United States because he can't see the future of himself as a new medical doctor in Manitoba at the rates - and I am not suggesting that there be any additional billings or anything like that, that's not what the intent of my story is. lt's just that the opportunities are greater for these people down in United States and he Is leaving after we had spent so many years in sending him - well, we didn't send him to university but we provided the facility for him that did cost the taxpayers' money -and we are losing these doctors.

We are losing these doctors because we don't respect them and we don't treat them with respect and we don't pay them what they're worth. Let's try to build back the prestige that these doctors warrant. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Let's try to build back the prestige that these doctors and professional people warrant. I see, Mr. Speaker, I've just got a few minutes left, and I'm going to take that chance to reaffirm my faith and my understanding, my respect and my love for our good neighbours down in the United States to the south of us. We've never had any problems with them. We had an agreement.

There is an international agreement that Garrison wouldn't come into Canada. We had to

Thur•da� 14 March, 1985 push them a little bit to remind them of that agreement, but the United States is not going to break that agreement and send us that Missouri water up into Canada with the possibility of it polluting our system up here. A MEMBER: We showed them, Abe, we burned their flag. MR. A. KOVNATS: Well, I wouldn't go that far and I'm not going to . . . Well maybe I will make mention of it, but we do, we protest in front of the United States Consulate when we feel. These are our friends and we're telling them .. . A MEMBER: They, not we. MR. A.

KOVNATS: Well, they protest in front of the United States Consulate. lt's very unfortunate that a flag was burnt, and I certainly don't point a finger at anybody on that side of the House. Some of them were there; by the grace of God, none of our people were there; not by the grace of God, by design, none of our people were there. lt seems that if you protest in front of the United States Consulate you get promoted. I see at least two members of the Cabinet since that time that were not members of the Cabinet and they are now, and that was after the protest.

Even though I mention it, I don't want it to be associated that you have got to protest to get to be in the Cabinet, but it sure helps, Mr. Speaker. You know, I think that it's about time that we stopped slapping our American neighbours, kicking our American neighbours, spitting on them, attending anti American rallies where American flags are burned. Let's take them by the hand and shake their hands and say, you are a good neighbour, you have been for a lot of years, let's stay that way. Let's ask them to reassess their position concerning the limiting of Manitoba products going into North Dakota.

I think that they would be friendly enough to reassess their position, Mr. Speaker, because they are our friends and we are their friends. I, for one, will stand up here today and say, thank God for Americans and neighbours like them to the south of us. lt certainly makes life pleasant in Canada. We contribute to our own pleasant life in Canada, but the Americans certainly do also. Thank God for our American neighbours. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for St. Johns. MR. D. MALINOWSKI: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

To begin with, I would like to first take this opportunity to say how pleased I am to see you continue in your difficult role as Speaker in this House. Your impartiality, good judgment and efforts to keep order are appreciated on both sides of this House. Mr. Speaker, I am happy to follow tradition on this occasion by congratulating my colleagues, the Honour able Members for Wolseley, the Mover; and the Honourable Member for Riel, the Seconder of the Speech from the Throne. lt was a good contribution toward the Throne Speech and full understanding, Mr.

Speaker, of the problems which we are facing at the present time. Mr. Speaker, I wish at this time to welcome the new Member for Fort Garry, and I am sure he will find it a challenging role here in this Chamber. I hope that he will bring new ideas, better ideas maybe than you fellows have. At the same time, I want to congratulate my colleague, the Member for The Pas, on his recent appointment. Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased at this time to say a few words about some of the achievements of this government and the constituency of St. Johns.

Before I mention some of the fairly positive achievements of the go vernment, I would like to state briefly the connection between socialism and Christianity, and Christianity and socialism. Mr. Speaker, I believe that everybody knows in this Chamber, everybody remembers - the founder of our CCF Party which now became the New Democratic Party - with pride and the social gospel which he preached was J.S. Woodsworth, who has been a model for Manitobans and Canadians for generations. Mr. Speaker, the record of Christian socialists In the House of Commons and our provincial Legislature is a proud one.

Manitoba has the distinction of having had J.S. Woodsworth and Stanley Knowles as MP's for Winnipeg North Centre for more than three generations. 141 Mr. Speaker, some of the social democrat MP's in recent years in the House of Commons includes our dearly beloved Tommy Douglas, who was the Premier of Saskatchewan as the first social democratic government; Father Andy Hogan from Nova Scotla; Father Bob Ogle from Saskatoon, Saskatchewan; and also Laverne Lewecky from Dauphin. In our current NDP Caucus federally we have three ministers, Mr.

Speaker, without portfolios, probably the same as I am without portfolio but they are ministers. They were, and I believe they will be ministers to the end as myself. Mr. Speaker, they are Reverend Jim Manly, Reverend Dan Heap and our own Winnipeg MP, Reverend Blllie Blaikie. Mr. Speaker, provincially in the 1950s and 1960s,"we have Lloyd Stinson and also Philip Petursson, who was a Minister of Cultural Affairs in the early '70s. Mr. Speaker, last year we were honoured to have among us His Holiness, Pope Giovanni Paolo Secundo, and also as well we had our beloved Queen, Her Majesty, Elizabeth 11. Mr.

Speaker, it is a matter of not small pride to me that it is one of my countrymen, Pope John Paul ll, who has with passion and clarity explained where people suffer the regime must change, and it will change either peacefully or violently. The manner of Its change will decide the nature of what follows, and socialism has shown how the change can be made peacefully. Mr. Speaker, I have a clip before me, it is from the Winnipeg Free Press.

Mind you, the Winnipeg Free Press does not always put something Interesting, you know, something decent, but from time to time, either by accident or by mistake, this time - you know, this is not theirs actually. This is a printing from Newsweek by Ken Woodward - (Interjection) - Probably, and that was on June 18, 1983. For your information, honourable friends, if you want to check, you may check this on Pages 45 and 60. - (Interjection) - That's right. I would like to just mention something they said about His Holiness. The item says here: "World's first

Thured•y, 14 lbrch, 1815 socialist Pope." How do you like that? Now, you know why I am proud to be a socialist. A MEMBER: Father, I thought Jesus was a socialist. MR. D. MALINOWSKI: My colleague said that Jesus was one, but at that time we didn't have a New Democratic Party, but probably he was. At that time, if we had a Social Democrat or Conservative, definitely he would be a Social Democrat. There is no question about it. Mr. Speaker, the same thing like those priests which I just mentioned, every one of them. A MEMBER: Father, what is your Attorney-General? MR. D.

MALINOWSKI: Well, first of all, he is not a priest. What are you talking about? He is not a clergyman. He is a lawyer; he is a professor. Well, listen, I have a special

chapter for him, too, don't worry about it. Mr. Speaker, in that

article concerning a socialist Pope, I would like to read, "The priority of labour over capital. In search of Pope advocates, a modified socialist simil ar to the reforms sought by Poland's labour movement, Solidari ty, and for that reason alone his visit to his homeland is a fundamental challenge to Pol ish Communist leaders." Furth er, "The Pope understands the ordinary Polish worker and the Marxist system under which he labours," and I quote what he said, Mr. Speaker. - (Interjection) - Would you be quiet for a change and listen? You will learn something.

This is an historical thing I am talking about now. - (Interjection) - Well. Mr. Speaker, I quote, "I know what it means to work in a factory for all those hours of the day, every day of the week, and all the weeks of the year. I learned this from my own body. I did not learn it from books." Those were his words, Mr. Speaker. Now, what he did learn from books was how to think like a Marxist as well as like a Christian. Then he said, "Work is made for man, not man for work." He believes, and on that moral principle he has challenged both capitalists and Marxists with a unique gospel of work.

Do we need any more evi dence, Mr. Speaker , concerning a socialist? Well, I believe that you still don't understand what socialist actually means. I will come to it. Today, I will give you a lesson, a free lesson. lt will cost you nothing, but just be patient and listen, especially my honourable friend for Lakeside. He is so anxious to listen to me, because all the time, whenever he speaks, Mr. Speaker, he puts his hands like that, and I think for the people from Manitoba - they are looking for them all over - he wants to be sure that somebody is listening to him.

I am listening all the time, Harry, don't worry about it. So, for a change, would you be so kind and listen to me? - (Interjection) - Mr. Speaker, I hope it will be on my time. MR. SPEAKER: Order please. Order please. The Honourable Member for Lakeside on a point of order. MR. H. ENNS: Mr. Speaker, on a point a order. I seek your guidance. Is the honourable member imputing motives to me? 142 MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for St. Johns. MR. D. MALINOWSKI: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to continue a little further concerning our beloved Pope.

Pope John Paul urges that a capitalist position that defends the exclusive right to private ownership of the means of protection as untouchable dogma should undergo a constructive revision both in theory and practice. In some circumstances he believes nationalizing of basic industries may be the better part towards social justice. Imagine. I may go on and on, but I have something else more important, Mr. Speaker, so I will just conclude the last sentence, you know, what His Holiness said and it is here.

What the Pope seems to be calling for is a co-operative form of socialism in which workers share in the ownership of productive means while state planners, censors, adjusters - distribution of goods and service for all. Isn't that beautiful? You bet your boots it is. Mr. Speaker, I am very proud to say that these honourable and courageous Christians were models for me; and, indeed, inspired me to enter public life. Mr. Speaker, I consider myself a very privileged person. The people of Manitoba have elected and re-elected me four times already. Mr.

Speaker, in 1969, I was elected for the constituency of Point Douglas, and 1 served that constituency for 12 years, from the beginning to the end. Imagine, that kind of MLA I am; I started and I finished with them. And now Point Douglas is a portion of thi s. - (Interjection) ...:_ Well, Point Douglas is a portion for St. Johns now, so that's why I am in St. Johns. Does that answer your question? Mr. Speaker, the excitement and commitment of my colleagues to social justice has not changed since then.

I recall only too well the foolish rhetoric and the name calling by the Conservatives when our government introduced Autopac. They were furious; they were calling all kinds of people around. lt doesn't mean that they will come voluntarily; they had to, it was their duty. There were thousands of them, Mr. Speaker, they were so scared. At that time, I watched with amazement the hysteria of the opposition who said we couldn't afford Autopac. We couldn't afford it, that's what they were crying. Mr.

Speaker, for the record, I would like to give just one sentence from the Honourable Member for Roblin who said, at that time, I quote: "lt comes out loud and clear that this government is going to try and make the insurance agents of this province work for less than the minimum wage." Furthermore, they will starve to death. lt didn't happen, Mr. Speaker, it didn't happen. Now the other wisdom we had from Sturgeon Creek, the honourable member, he is a prophet. He said, Mr. Speaker, the people of Manitoba have basically been conned. MR. D. SCOTT: Conned, that's pretty strong. MR. D. MALINOWSKI: Yes.

The situation in Manitoba will deteriorate as far as insurance is concerned because we are not going to have as good coverage. Furthermore, all Manitobans will suffer as far as, not only car insurance is involved, but loss of Industry, taxes and people. Mr. Speaker, isn't there a lullaby - whatever you want tfl call it before you go to sleep - you shouldn't tell to

your children because they will be scared to go to sleep, then you'll have trouble. Mr. Speaker, socialists, they cry all the time. Well, Mr. Speaker, if that is socialism, it is not surprising that Autopac is so successful. Of course, thanks right now to the president whose name is Mr. Cart Laufer - I am on the Board of Directors, I'm working with him, he is a very capable man and hard working. it looks to me like now every year we have more and more income, more and more profits. But what is more important, Mr. Speaker, that profit is not going anywhere, it stays here for our people in Manitoba.

Before it was entirely different, Mr. Speaker, we had private insurance here, and we had a choice, the people had a choice, go either to Stanley, Mary, John or Catherine. This is the only difference, but the prices were the same, but the only choice we had. The owners, Mr. Speaker, of that company, they didn't even live in Canada; one was living, I believe, in Zurich, the other in London, then New Jersey - God knows where! The profit from this auto insurance, Mr. Speaker, not stay only in Manitoba, it didn't even stay in Canada, and that's what they are saying, this is the deal to do. Right now, Mr.

Speaker, what are they doing? it scares me, believe you me it scares me. Their way of thinking is horrifying to me. How they can do something like that. If they were in power here for four years - God forbid! - they would not be anymore. So what they were thinking before election, Mr. Speaker, don't worry, people there will be jobs and everything; Manitoba will move ahead, and this kind of thing; that's true. Manitoba didn't move, Manitobans were moving from Manitoba; that was the situation. it was not, as you may say, just a few. According to statistics, Mr.

Speaker, from 1977 to 1981 it was around 40,000 of them. So that's where the Conservatives made a good move. That was a good move, Mr. Speaker. Not only that but, Mr. Speaker, I would like to remind you of one thing. For four years of their regime, what happened here? They were praying very hard, and they were thinking and hoping that a miracle would happen again which didn't happen for 100 years when they were in power, both here or in Ottawa - (Interjection) - Absolutely not. it didn't happen, and I don't think it will happen. That miracle is supposed to be, Mr.

Speaker, a good Santa Claus which they believe very strongly in. Private industry, that's what they believe all the time. That private industry will come and private markets will put everything and problems will be solved. Why, Mr. Speaker, is the question? Because they don't know how to manage themselves. it's as simple as that. They don't know how. If they knew they will do it but, no, they have to go and find out something else. That's the problem we have here in Manitoba and that's why, Mr. Speaker, in 1981, the people of Manitoba told them: Gentlemen, enough is enough.

That is why you are now on that side of the House and, believe you me, you will be staying there for a long time. it's no problem, I have such a feeling it's no problem. Mr. Speaker, concerning these jobs which they are crying about all the time that are for a short time. They don't recognize them even as a job, that we are helping people, and preparing and training people. No, for them, this is not a job, because they are not doing it. First of all, they didn't know how to do it to begin with, and still they don't believe it. Mr. Speaker, they have such an idea.

They don't have enough guts to stand up here and to tell our people, to tell our women who are going shopping how much they will pay for a quart of milk, for a dozen eggs, or a pound of meat. Why they don't know, Mr. Speaker? Because their brains are in Wall Street. it's coming from down there. You have nothing to say. Your brain is down there. A MEMBER: Get serious, Don. MR. D. MALINOWSKI: Of course, I am serious. You don't know how to think. Mr. Speaker, on the top of that, if you think that you are thinking differently, oh no. Our Prime Ministe r, he is thinking the same way. Not so long ago, Mr.

Speaker, he went to New York for this business meeting, and has a nice dinner and so forth. He stood again before them and said, "Ladies and gentlemen, as a new Minister of Canada, the doors are open. Please come. This is my dream and my country." My goodness gracious, Mr. Speaker, what kind of a tale is this , for again he doesn't believe that our people are not capable to take care of themselves. Again we need people from - I don't know - Zurich, from London, from Tokyo. Probably he was talking today with Gorbachev, maybe he will ask him to come and help us, because he doesn't know how to manage. Mr.

Speaker, I am terrified talking about giving away, and I am serious ab�t it. They will not only deal with a piece of meat, or milk, or eggs, or chicken, or turkey, they are dealing the same way, Mr. Speaker, with millions of people. Mr. Speaker, I have also a clip from the Free Press. This time, probably also by accident they put it. That was on Friday, January 29, 1982, on Page 8. Also it wasn't a Free Press writer, they would be afraid to write something like that, but the writer actually is from the Baltimore Sun, Hal Piper. Mr.

Speaker, I am talking and referring to the situation in Yalta , at that conference. Mr. Speaker, that was a tragedy for Eastern Europe, but they gave them away. In Europe they are well-known as the Three Musketeers - I have a picture of them, Three Musketeers - and here it says, subtitle, "Betrayal Viewpoint. Winston Churchill and Franklln Roosevelt gave away 100 million East Europeans to Joseph Stalin." He didn't ask for it; they gave it away. Like usual, they are giving everything away. There's no question about it. Mr.

Speaker, further, "After this betrayal, the west was unwilling to tear down the building walls in 1961 or to have anti-communist rebellions in East Germany, 1953; Hungary in 1956 and Czechoslovakia, 1968." 143 SOME HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. D. MALINOWSKI: Mr. Speaker, would you ask them for quietness because I can't even hear myself? MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER, P. Eyler: Order please, order please. Order please. Order. The member Is ready to proceed? The Member for St. Johns. MR. D. MALINOWSKI: Thank you very much. I hope, Mr. Speaker, this disruption will not be on my time.

Thursday, 14 March, 1985 Furthermore, Mr. Speaker, on that I would like to continue what the paper said. "Now there in Poland, the Yalta is back in the news again. Soviet propaganda complains that the Solidarity Trade Union and east western sympathizers were trying to change the results of the Second World War; in particular, the results that left Poland oriented toward the Soviet Union." Mr. Speaker, that was nothing but a giveaway and nobody of that country was present, nobody was asking them and on the record, Mr. Speaker, I will tell you who was involved. That conference took place in Yalta, February, 1945.

So it is 40 years ago. Ukrainian, 45 million; Poland, 36 million; Rumania, 23 million; East Germany, 70 million; Czechoslovakia, 60 million; Latvia, 3 million; Lithuania, 3 milli on; Estonia, 2 million; Bulgar ia, 9 million; Yugoslavia, 23 million. Altogeth er, Mr. Speaker, 188 million people, for 40 years they are crying to heaven for liberty, justice, freedom which was taken away from them. And who did it, Mr. Speaker? As I said, those Three Musketeers, and not a soul of those 188 million were ther e.

The y were just sh uffle-muffle, doin g whatever they want, and that's what we - (Interjection) - well, probably you may call this free enterprise. People are not for sale. Furthermore, Mr. Speaker, 10 years ago what took place in Helsinki? At Helsinki the west recognized the map of Europe and it promised not to try to shift the boundaries or to interfere with the internal working of the Soviet block regime. lt means probably, I was thinking, that right afterward they maybe made a mistake or something.

They didn't understand the position, because it was war. lt was a terrible situation, a terrible time, pressure, all kinds of other things. Mr. Speaker, this is not the case. Thirty years later many of the m from the western world, includin g our Honourable Pierre Trudeau, he went and he put a signature down there in Helsinki. We can't touch them; we can't touch. them, and that is the same kind of business they are trying to do here in the province and as well at the federal level, the same thing - giveaway. Mr. Speaker, there is no question about it.

When they were in power, they were trying to build this mega project. Oh, everybody will be so satisfied. Look at that. Here it will go, we'll do something. Mr. Speaker, they said that 700 jobs, I believe, will be involved. Wasn't that 700 or something? But how many millions they are giving away? How many millions? They were not thinking about this. They were begging, come on and take it. You know what, we have fresh bread; we have fresh butter. The only thing, bring the knife and help yourself. Help yourself. That's the philosophy.

And thanks to the Lord, you know, the Holy Ghost is out to work on our people, and he says, well, enough is enough. You will not give things which belong to other people to somebo dy who doe sn't believe. - (Interjection) - Probably I don't know what they want. Well, they don't know, Mr. Speaker, what they want anyhow because they are not thinking about themselves. But, Mr. Speaker, talking of giving away, I would like to refer to the Holy Bible which says - and we'll find this in Ecclesiastes

Chapter 5, Verse 9 - (Interjection) - 5-9, don't you know how to count? I quo te: "Mo reover the profit of the earth is for all." Not for multinational business or multinational banks. WhatHer we have, any minerals we have in Manitoba belongs 144 to the people of Manitoba. And don't rush. We know how to do it. - (Interjection) - Wait a minute! Our people are not starving. They are not starving here and we will do it. The time will come, and we'll do lt. Mr. Speaker, if my honourable friend from Minnedosa will be patient, I'll try to have a special

chapter for him but I don't have the time . . . A MEMBER: it's not Ecclesiastes. MR. D. MALINOWSKI: I don't have the time for it. Not only my friend from Minnedosa but everyone of you, you know, and you won't believe it - I am praying for you every night and unfortunately it doesn't work sometime. Mr. Speaker ... MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order please. The Member for St. Johns. MR. D. MALINOWSKI: How many minutes do I have, Mr. Speaker? MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The honourable member has four minutes remaining. MR. D. MALINOWSKI: Oh, mamma mia, gee. Mr. Speaker, we, here in Manitoba and St.

Johns, are very fortunate to have a system of Medicare which is res ponsible and planned with care. This is very important. When Medicare was first introduced by the former socialist government in Saskatche wan, I remember the opposition of the Conservatives, oh, they were so mad about this medicare. Again, they were crying that it wouldn't work. - (Interjection) - lt wouldn't work. Mr. Speaker, Manitoba now devotes one third its budget revenue to Health. This is the largest percentage of budget revenue devoted to Health of any western Canadian province. Mr.

Speaker, because time is running out, I would like to just touch a little about our program which we have. I would like to just mention that, for instance, when we are putting Pharmacare or nursing home construction or the Manitoba eyeglass program, or Critical Home Repair Program, what kind of a reaction will we have from them, Mr. Speaker? Look, socialist. That's what you are calling, that is a socialist. Mr. Speaker, if we are taking care of youth employment programs, day care programs and child care programs, if we are now preparing a child abuse and wife abuse program, they say, don't interfere- privacy.

All the time, whatever we'll do, they don't like it. First of all, they are not doing anything, Mr. Speaker. If they were in power, they didn't do it. They were just talking: we will, we will, we will. We don't need "they will," we need a piece of bread right on the table, that's what we need. We need the jobs. If we were, in the last year, the lowest unemployed in Canada, not because of Conservatives who are taking for the private sector, you are waiting for 100 years. - (Interjection) - They never did, they never do. So don't kid yourself that somebody will come from outside and do a job for you, no such thing.

But we are putting every1hing in action, and it works, Mr. Speaker, and it will work, because my people in the St. Johns constituency have

,...,,.., 14 March, 1185 been waiting for four years, because they were promised it will be a better Manitoba, better jobs. Well, finally, they moved. Because at the end of the month, they had all kinds of bills to pay, for a car, for rent, for everything, just name it. They don't have it. They said just wait, be patient, wait for free enterprise. The private sector will come and thank you, and the private sector probably is still in the boat somewhere. I don't know where, Atlantic Ocean or Pacific Ocean, God knows where, but not in Manitoba, and I doubt very much that they will come to Manitoba.

Gentlemen, we have a mutual responsibility towards our constituents. We should protect them. Regardless of whether you are on this side or that side, you have the same kind of responsibility as I have, and you promised them before the election that you would take care of them. If they are in danger - (Interjection) - If they are in need, you should help them. MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order please. MR. D. MALINOWSKI: Mr. Speaker, I have only one sentence. MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order please, order please. Order please. The honourable member's time has expired. MR. D.

MALINOWSKI: I would like to ask the indulgence for one sentence, Mr. Speaker. MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Leave has not been granted. The Honour able Member for Fort Garry. MR. C. BIRT: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Unfortunate ly, I don't have the Lord on my side to write my script like the honourable member preceding me, but I will endeavour to try and match at least the high points that he touched in his speech.

To the Deputy Speaker, and through you to the Speaker, I could only hope that you have courage and wisdom to bring and keep this House in a good and functioning sense, to keep the good that this Chamber can achieve, and to keep the bad to the minimum. You need a great deal of strength and courage, I realize, from my experience in the last four or five days to run a very tough ship, and to that I wish you the very best of success. I, on my part, will participate and hope that I can make your service In that Chair a successful one this Session.

To the members, I thank each and every one of you for your kind thoughts and your hopes for my presence in this Cham ber. As you each know, it's a special experience each time a new person comes into this Chamber, and I thank you for your good thoughts. 1 would like to pay a special tribute to my former colleague, Bud Sherman, who gave 15 years of his life to the constituents of Fort Garr y. He represented them well. He articulated their concerns, and above all he participated in the large debates of Manitoba and its future.

To him, I owe, and on behalf of the constituents of Fort Gar ry, we owe him a special thanks, and I hope that he has good health to enjoy his new venture in life. I would like to thank the people of Fort Garry for electing me to public office. I have served as their city councillor prior to my election to this Chamber.

I know what public trust means. it's a very rare and special commod ity, and I hope that I can serve and meet their expectations and hold that public trust to the highest possible level that is attainable in my capacity because it is truly a very important commodity that is given by the electorate to any elected Individual. Now I come to the dilemma faced by most people making their first maiden speech here, of what issue do you talk?

I do not have the familiarity of a cau.cus group such as the Member for Elmwood has, and therefore can regale us all with great one-liners and a few funny comments, nor do I have the experience of knowing how the members opposite conduct the affairs of state. Therefore, I can't handle the usual hard-ball speech that some of my members have been able to handle out there. A MEMBER: Charlie, but we've been telling you about these guys. MR. C. BIRT: I must say that what I have seen over the last few days, it won't take much longer to get Into the swing of it.

However, I would like to tell you why I came to this Cham ber, the concerns I have and the concerns my constituents have, and I note at least two members on the opposite benches reside in my constituency, and I know that they will be aware of what I'm talking about, because I believe the constituency of Fort Garry is a rather unique and special place to live. They will see the wisdom of their ways. 145 The constituency of Fort Garry is a microcosm of the Province of Manitoba. lt Is urban, it is Industrial, and it also involves agriculture.

Its people are Involved in all aspects of the affairs of the Province of Manitoba. - (Interjection) - Yes, the sugar beet factory is In my constituency and so goes the sugar beet industry, so goes some of the jobs in my constituency, so goes the purchasing power of the farmers if they affect the employment, at Versatile, in my constituency. We have heavy manufacturing; we have small businessmen; we have people involved in the education and health field. In other words, they cover all aspects of the concerns an involvement of this province.

The history of Fort Garry is one of the history of Winnipeg. lt started primarily as an agricult ural-based rural co mmun ity and as the city developed and expanded it expanded further south. Part of the older part of Fort Garry has the problems of declining enrolment, reduced services and restriction on the ability to get young people to come into the community. At the southern end, in Waverley Heights, we have a brand new community. The problems there are too many people and too few services. But this is the problem of the dynamics of the City of Winnipeg.

In some areas you have a declining population and an aging infrastructure; in other parts you have brand new expa ndin g and shor tage of services. The residents of Fort Garry, whom I have been able to perceive in my living there with my family, they take a very special and active participation In their community affairs. They do not ask people to do things for them, they want, and expect that they and other

Thursday, 14 March, 1985 people in their community will participate, see problems, identify them and then solve them. That would apply to whether it be a need for a coach for a hockey team, a fraternal organization identifying a need and building the first senior citizens' housing in Fort Garry, or a legion providing bus services for the aged. All of these people have participated, and all of them care. They bring the same concern to the city at large and the province at large. In short, my constituents look forward to challenges and see them as opportu nities to improve our community and our lifestyle.

They do not look to the past; they do not become prisoners of the past. They look forward to the future with optimism, but they share the experience like all Manitobans of the recession of 198 1-82. They had jobs knocked away from them; they had economic circumstances reduced; they felt the cold shiver of reality, of reduced services. They also realized that in the recession of'81-82, we had reached a watershed in our society. The experience, the expansion, the growth, the see mingly unlimi ted potential of government to solve problems that were there in the '50s, '60s and '70s had disappeared.

They were not destroyed by that experience; they did not look negatively on it. They realized that out of this area of concern comes an opportunity. They also were aware of the dramatic and social changes taking place in our society. Emerging at the same time was the computer and the microchip and the impact it is having on our society. These two forces coming together have, in effect, and I believe in a very short time historians will tell us that we are going to see the new, economic, social revolution take place.

In fact, the world that we will be seeing tomorrow will be a brand new world, totally different from the past - (Interjection) - With a little luck from the electorate, I agree, we will be free of socialism. If we choose to ignore the challenges that now lay before us we will only faiL If we look backwards, if we lock ourselves into the dogma of yesterday, we will only fail. The people of Fort Garry and the people of this province want leadership, and they can only get leadership from a new government.

Let me tell you in some of the areas, and there are only a few, where we need new leadership, desperately need leadership. In our field of education every parent, every student, every person who is involved in the educational system, feels that the quality of education is inferior, insufficient and must be changed dramatically. The whole educational process must be radically shaken up and a new way and a better quality of system must be delivered.

This educational system must be keyed and geared to providing the challenge and the opportunities that the new world is now unfolding for us, and everyone feels that the system is letting them down. You just ask the university students when they graduate, where are the jobs, or I'm not fit or equipped to handle the job market out there. We must, and very quickly, bring together all those people who can change and bring about and improve the educational system. We must look at our government spending.

In past, the level of government expectation as revenues have been ever-increasing, but the crunch of 1981 and 1982 reduced the amount of money that government was able to receive, and the projections for the foreseeable 146 future are not to be of any great economic wealth out there. In short, we are going on a very limited growth expansion for the next few years. We must then decide how we want to place these valuable resources called money. We must priorize our objectives in society and where we place these resources.

This will take leadership, courage and very great skill and dedication, because we must maximize those limited resources that we have. Another area that cries out for leadership is the field of agriculture. Agriculture, as one of my colleagues indicated, was one of the most important industries to this province. lt is very true because, if the farmers aren't buying, then the people in my constituency are laid off from their manufacturing jobs.

The problems facing the agricultural community are significant. lt is time now for good leadership; it is time for all segments of society , all levels of government to get together and co-operate to try and solve the problems that are facing that industry. We have seen some who would say, let's take some cheap shots for quick politics. I would suggest, rather than bashing other people, that we all come together on a national consensus and try and solve their problems because, with good leadership, there will become good politics and, unless we take that road, we're all going to be in trouble.

The other factor that is equally important that was not addressed in ttie Speech from the Throne, has not been mentioned here in the few days that I have been sitting in this Cham ber, the plight of th e small businessman is equally as grave as that of the farm community. There is no one, no one addressing their concerns. lt has been the engine of employment for the last th ree decades.

Most jobs, most long-lasting permanent jobs are in the small business sector, and nowhere is anyone trying to do anything for them. lt is time to forget the cash giveaways; it is time to start experimenting and trying new Ideas to allow them the framework to grow.

At the moment, they are merely treading water, they are trying to survive, and nothing and no one is doing anything to accomplish anything for them to allow them to grow, to allow Manitoba to grow, to allow Manitoba to prosper; yes, and even to allow people to employ and for trade unions and send those trade union memberships on to their central bodies because, without employment, even the trade union movement will die and wither, and we are not getting that support now; again, lack of leadership. There is a crying out for very specific leadership in these areas.

Let me turn to the area that I know most about, and that is the City of Winnipeg, a city of 600,000 people who has had a long and slow but steady growth in the history of this province. We have had three levels of government attempt to solve one of the worst problems in our city. They came together and created the Core project, and they put in approximately $96 million to try and radically change a disease that was affecting the core of our city. Great ideals, high levels of expectations were created, but unfortunately, they have not been achiev ed.

But let us not abando n that experiment, let us continue, let us learn from the mistakes to try and keep the idea of reviving our city going because, unless we continually renew our city, we are not going to have the time or the privilege to

enjoy the benefits of our social, economic or resource benefits. We must encourage young people to come back into the older neighbourhoods and into the centre of the city. Right now we have mostly senior citizens living in the older areas of the city. The schools are going empty or suffering the trauma of declining enrolment. We have churches, we have community services being vacated or empty, not being utilized because there is no one there to use them. Yet, with the best of intentions, the government has been sponsoring programs for first home buyers. And where are they locating them?

Out on the outer edge of the city where you have to build new churches, new schools, new roads and new infrastr ucture. What we must do is devise a scheme to allow young people to move back into the communities, and we are only limited by our own imagination and how this can be achieved, because with them coming back into the older neighbourhoods we have services that are paid for, they can utilize what is there. We don't have to add to the tax base or the cost of maintaining them, they are already there. They will also rebuild the infras tructure of the community services that we all like and need.

We will also have a community where the homes are being rebuilt and refurbished and everyone will enjoy and benefit from it. But we also have, because of the limitation of the financial problems of the City of Winnipeg, an ina bility to refinance the basic infr astructure of the city. The problems of deteriorating high ways are very evident in the city. The city is disintegrating at a faster rate than the citizens of Winnipeg can afford to replace it. There is a massive reconstruction and rebuilding program that is awaiting there to be done and we are losing gr ound daily.

If we made a commitment to rebuild that infras tructure we would create jobs, we would have economic spinoff, we would have taxes flowing into our coffers because, only with that massive type of reconstruction will we have a community worth living in and a place to be proud of. Mr.

Speaker, I have talked about some of the concerns that I have seen, and part of the reason for coming, and part of the reason for coming into this Chamber is the solutions lie here - not at City Hall, not out on the street, but here. lt takes leadership and commitment and a sensitivity to be concerned of people's needs, and they are right in this Chamber. I am prepared, with my colleagues, and my leader, to provide that leadership in the next election and I look forward to that election. I look forward to serving the people of Mani toba and forming the government next time around. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAKER, Hon. J. Welding: The Honourable Minister of Business Development. HON. J. STORIE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First of all, I would like to congratulate the Member for Fort Garry for his inaugural speech. I think that it's an important event, first event for all of us in the Chamber, and I think the member can be duly proud of his performance.

I think he has given us a lot to think about and certainly for members on the opposite side , for members on this side, I think that some refreshing sentiments 147 expressed by the Member for Fort Garry, and perhaps it's because he comes here with a new perspective and certainly somewhat less jaundiced because of the atmosphere that prevails from time to time in the House.

Certain ly, in reflecting on my own performance in the House over the last couple of years, I have to say that perhaps I, like most members, should reflect from time to time on our performances because I remember my first two months in this House, as I sat quietly on that side of the House, the wrong side, or the right side, I was kind of appalled and somewhat dismayed at the behaviour of people in the Chamber.

I hadn't had an occasion to sit in the Chamber to listen to debate previously, other than glimpses on T.V., and I said to myself, "I'm not going to behave like that." And here I am, three years later, no different than anybody else. I always say that, and perhaps the Member for Fort Garry will confirm this, after a couple of more months, that this is a team sport and there is a lot of rah, rah on both sides.

However, having said that, I should indicate to the Member for Fort Garry that his ideas and his comments with respect to the City of Winnipeg I think were particularly intere sting to myself because, as he may know, I was Minister of Housing for some time, and his conc ern about the revitalization of the core area is something that this government took very seriously, not only through the vehicle of the Core Area Initiative, but also through progr amming under the Department of Housing.

He may recall - h e commented on the fact that the Homes in Manitoba program did initiate a lot of new development in our outlying areas, I think probably the most significant of which took advantage of a subdivision that was alrea dy owned by Manitoba Housing and Renew al Corporation. it made good sense to move in that dir ecti on. it's also true that the Department of Housing, through RAP, the utilization of RAP, through Critical Home Repair Program, through the In-fill Housing Program which established in the first year approximately 75 br and new houses In the core area of Winnipeg, and in subsequent years has continued to establish new houses, to bring new families into the core area.

So the In-fill Housing Program was one that is successfully revitalizing the downtown area, the core area. The Logan redevelopment is another example, as well as the Buy and Renovate Program which try to renovate, to revitaliz e older homes through a program of assistance and renovation. So I think that his remarks were well taken; I hope that he will recognize that we, more than the previous gover nment, sympathize with that particular point of view and we will be interested to hear his further comments on the core area in particular. In terms of ... A MEMBER: . . . never been here before.

How do you know we weren't sympathetic? HON. J. STORIE: Call it intuition. Also, Mr. Speaker, I would suppose then from the comments of the Member for Fort Garry that he would support the province's position with respect to the urban limit line, that we can't go on, in his comments about the cost to the city and to the taxpayers of the city and to the province,

Thursday, 14 March, 1985 eventually , of extending services, continuing to build schools in an ever-expanding urban limit. So I think perhaps he is going to cross the floor after my speech, I don't know, but certainly, Mr. Speaker, his ideas were refreshing. Perhaps that reflects the fact that he hasn't been in the House very long and perhaps he hasn't been sitting with some of the Neanderthals on either side of him, but we'll leave that and we will form our own opinions, I suppose, some months from now with respect to .. A MEMBER: Would you like to elaborate on that comment? HON. J. STORIE: No, I don't think so.

Mr. Speaker, perhaps we'll wait and suspend judgment and we'll see what the future brings. I should say, as well, that while I'm in such a congratulatory mood to congratulate you , again, Mr. Speaker. I know you have a difficult task and I hope that my earlier comments about reflection on the tone of the Session will bring reeults from all of us from our individual contributions. I would certainly like to congratulate my colleague, the Honour able Harry Harapiak, the Member for The Pas, who takes over Northern Affairs.

I know that he will bring a good deal of knowledge and dedication to that position and I know that Northerners appreciate his contributions over the years to Northern Manitoba. I would also like to honour the Member for Ste. Rose, who has annou nced hi s retiremen t. Hi s years of contribution, Mr. Speaker, I think are recognized by many other members in the House who are of long standing. I suppose that it is difficult at any time to see a member choose to leave after a significant contribution to the public life of Manitoba. I wish him well in his retirement.

I know that he will be with us in spirit and in body for the rest of the Session and contributing, as he usually does in his magnificent way, to the debates of the House. Finally, Mr. Speaker, I would like to wish our colleague, Mary Beth Dolin, the Member for Kildonan, well in her struggle.

I think if ther e is any aspect of public life that is perhaps cause for all of us to contemplate is the strain that it puts on us, the tremendous cost that it has in terms of our personal well-being and our health, and I know that the Member for Kildo nan will continue to serve her constituents as she struggles and fights with her particular circumstance. We can only wish her well. Finally , before I forget, Mr.

Spe aker, I'd like to congratulate the Member for Turtle Mountain for receiving - (Interjection) - and I'd like to congratulate - before the Mem ber for Sturgeon Creek gets carried away - all of the other members for actually making it back to the Session and having the courage to face us again. I know it took a lot out of them, but we're glad that they're back. Mr. Speaker, if I might move to the substance of my remarks, the last couple of days have seen a dearth of contributions to the real business that we're here for. Mr.

Speaker, I believe it began with a rather sanctimonious and vacuous speech from the Leader of the Opposition. - (Interjection) - Mr. Speaker, the Member for River East says not to mention brief. I don't think that speeches can be quantified or com mented on by their briefness or lack thereof. I think substance is the question. Mr. Speaker, what we saw from the Leader of the Opposition was certainly a lack of leadership that the Memb er for Fort Garry was talking about. Jt is perhaps unfortunate, Mr.

Speaker, that his analysis, both of the Throne Speech and of the facts, the economic facts of the last couple of years certainly lend support to the Premier's contention that the Member for Tuxedo, the Leader of the Opposition, is without research capacity. Mr. Speak er, the Mem ber for Tuxedo's shrilled enunciation of the government's performance, what he saw as a lack of creativity, the Jack of direction in the Throne Speech, reflects poorly on either his reading of the Throne Speech or his staff's reading of the Throne Speech. Mr.

Speake r, the Member for Tuxedo is inde ed a Chicken Little, leading a group of little chickens. There is a continual peeping and chirping, and I suppose . MR. SPEAKER: Order please. HON. J. STORIE: Mr. Speaker, I suppose one could begin by commenting on the Leader of the Opposition's reference to Limestone. He ind icated in several places in his speech that he believed it was his opinion that the gove rnment's economic performance, the government's direction was all centred on the Limestone project proceeding.

He said if you talk about jobs for Northerners, we talk about Limestone and we talk about other kinds of benefits being available - we were talking . about Lime stone - Mr. Speaker, over the last three years this government has introduced two or three dozen programs which were designed in particular to support the economic development and the social well being of Manitobans. 148 Mr. Speaker, the Member for Pembina is chirping from his seat again. Perhaps I should inform the Member for Pem bina that in his speech I noted some inaccuracies which I was going to take a moment to comment on, and I'll do so now.

He talked about the block funding and the fact that the Provincial Government and the Department of Northern Affairs was now block funding Northern Affairs commun ities. What he fails to understa nd, Mr. Speaker, is that block funding in Northern Affairs com munitie s is an advancement. lt is a change from the status quo that existed under the previous government. Block funding for Northern Affairs communiti es means additional freedom for the community councils and for those communities. lt isn't an analogous situation with the City of Winnipeg at all. And, Mr.

Speaker, the block funding issue, if the Member for Pembina unde rstood the current situation and the relationship between the Department of Northern Affairs and Northern Affairs communi ties, he wouldn't make those kinds of statements. Mr. Speaker, I suppo se that someone has to ask the question, where has the opposition been other than in this Chamb er criticizing a whole range of programs and services that have been introduced by this government? Where has the opposition been when there have been critical issues facing the Province of Manitoba? Mr.

Speaker, the other evening I was in Carmen, speaking to the annual meeting of the Pembina Valley

Thu1'11day, 14 Marcmo 1985 Regional Development Corporation, and the Member for Sturgeon Creek rightly says that I ran down the Federal Government. Mr. Speaker, I don't think that it's accurate to say tha t I ran down the Federal Government. I pointed out that the Federal Government had done a number of things in the past, in their very short tenure, that impacted negatively on Manitoba. Mr. Speaker, we've heard mentioned in this Chamber from time to time the support of the members opposite for the National Research Centre.

The Member for Sturgeon Creek - and I give him credit - said we would like to see it here and mentioned the fact that they initiated discussions with the National Research Council for the establishment of that facility in Winnipeg, but the fact of the matter is that we had it here. We had it here on terms that were similar to the terms that exist in other parts of the countr y. We had an important facility come into Manitoba. For their own reasons, the Federal Government decided that they were going to cut that particular facility - (Interjection) - to sabotage it, as the Member for Radisson indicates. Mr.

Speaker, the Member for Sturgeon Creek will say, well, if we pass that building, it's still being built. But the question is: are we going to have a facility that is funded by the people of Canada, by the taxpayers of this province and other provinces that is the equivalent of the National Research facilities in other provinces? Mr. Speaker, of the Science and Technology Program that was instituted by the previous Liberal Government, 83 percent of the cuts in that particular program were instituted in Manitoba - 83 percent.

Now, if that reflects any kind of attitude of fairness, then perhaps the Federal Government had better reflect on what the word "fairness" means. Mr. Speaker, we stand to lose it, unless there is some positive action on the part of the Federal Government. We don't need, probably nor can we afford, a National Research Centre on terms other than those terms which exist in other provinces. I don't think that we should be treated any differently in that respect. Mr. Speaker, there is the issue of the Maintenance Centre for VIA Rail, again an issue that has been put on hold.

I was speaking with the new president - (Interjection) - and I'll get to that as well. Mr. Speaker, the communities of Gimli and Church ill, obviously the citizens in those commun ities are raising legitimate concerns about the impact of cutbacks in those particular areas. We have the issue of equalization and how that impacts on the province. Mr.

Speaker, the Department of Regional Industrial Expansion, the Indus trial Regional Development Program, the incentive program has been changed by 149 the previous government, the Liberal Goverl')ment, and changed again by the current government, all of which have had serious negative impacts on the ability of Manitoba to compete with other provinces. Mr. Speaker, cities like Winnipeg now are in an inferior position with respect to the availability of incentive grants. Mr.

Speaker, that isn't to mention probably one of the most serious crises that face not only Manitoba but Western Canada, and that's the farm financial crisis. We have seen a singular lack of effort, a singular lack of initiative on the part of te Federal Government to address those particular concerns. Mr. Speaker, I'm sure that the Minister of Agriculture will have ample opportunity to outline the initiatives that have been undertaken by the province, but we have seen no initia tive and perhaps no desire to establish any initiatives on the part of the Federal Government.

In fact, the Federal Minister of Agriculture is saying, look, farmers are four or nine times as wealthy as the average Canadian, and pay a quarter as much tax, and provides the statement that perhaps 1 percent of farmers are in financial trouble when the facts certainly are signi ficantly di fferent in Manitob a and Saskatchewan and other parts of the country. So those issues impact negatively on Manitoba. Mr.

Speaker, members opposite have been more than willing to criticize and to put forward their particular views, as has their leader on other issues, particularly legislative issues, and how they impact on Manitoba. My question for them is: is it not also their responsibility to be critical, to make comment, to provide suggestions to their colleagues, to the Federal Government? Mr. Speaker, if their job as elected people, elected representatives In this province is to protect the interests of Manitoba, then where are they on those issues? They are singularly silent on those issues.

They are uncomfortable on those issues. Mr. Speaker, I haven't seen a resolution from the Member for Arthur, asking the Federal Government to do away with its Cost Recovery Program In terms of services provided to the agricultural commun ity, a program that is wreaking havoc on the livelihoods of many Manitobans, the seed growers and many other areas. MR. SPEAKER: Order please, order please. The time being 10:00, when this matter is next before the House, the honourable member will have 20 minutes remaining.

The time of adjournment having arrived, this House is adjourned and will stand adjourned until 10:00 a.m. tomorrow (Friday).

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	32-4-6b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	32nd 4th hansardpdf 6b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	47f50f7e1eca145bee87e073059cfab6ee576cb2

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