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May 29, 2008

39th Parliament, 1st Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2008-May-29 (PDF)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L'ONTARIO

Thursday 29 May 2008 Jeudi 29 mai 2008

ORDERS OF THE DAY

ORDER OF BUSINESS

ALGOMA UNIVERSITY ACT, 2008 /

LOI DE 2008 SUR L'UNIVERSITÉ ALGOMA

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

ORAL QUESTIONS

INFECTIOUS DISEASE CONTROL

INFECTIOUS DISEASE CONTROL

MANUFACTURING JOBS

ABORIGINAL RIGHTS

MANUFACTURING JOBS

DRIVER LICENCES

MUNICIPALITIES

CASINOS

PUBLIC HEALTH

AGRICULTURE INDUSTRY

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

PROPERTY TAXATION

PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION

PESTICIDES

PETITIONS

LORD'S PRAYER

FIREARMS CONTROL

ALMA COLLEGE

HOSPITAL FUNDING

LORD'S PRAYER

FIREARMS CONTROL

HOSPITAL FUNDING

HOSPITAL FUNDING

ANTI-SMOKING LEGISLATION

POPE JOHN PAUL II

ANTI-SMOKING LEGISLATION

LORD'S PRAYER

VISITORS

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

ABORIGINAL RIGHTS

MARKHAM MUSIC AND ARTS GROUP

ONTARIO SUMMER GAMES

SPECIAL OLYMPICS

DURHAM MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES

ABORIGINAL RIGHTS

MUSLIM COMMUNITY

AGRICULTURE PROGRAMS

CLIMATE CHANGE /

CHANGEMENT DE CLIMAT

PRIVATE MEMBERS'

PUBLIC BUSINESS

MUNICIPAL RESIDENTIAL

SPRINKLER ACT, 2008 /

LOI DE 2008 SUR LES EXTINCTEURS

AUTOMATIQUES RÉSIDENTIELS

DANS LES MUNICIPALITÉS

JAY LAWRENCE AND BART MACKEY

MEMORIAL ACT (HIGHWAY TRAFFIC

AMENDMENT), 2008 /

LOI DE 2008 COMMÉMORANT

JAY LAWRENCE ET BART MACKEY

(MODIFICATION DU CODE

DE LA ROUTE)

PROPERTY TAX DEFERRAL ACT, 2008 /

LOI DE 2008 SUR LE REPORT

DES IMPÔTS FONCIERS

MUNICIPAL RESIDENTIAL

SPRINKLER ACT, 2008 /

LOI DE 2008 SUR LES EXTINCTEURS

AUTOMATIQUES RÉSIDENTIELS

DANS LES MUNICIPALITÉS

JAY LAWRENCE AND BART MACKEY

MEMORIAL ACT (HIGHWAY TRAFFIC

AMENDMENT), 2008 /

LOI DE 2008 COMMÉMORANT

JAY LAWRENCE ET BART MACKEY

(MODIFICATION DU CODE

DE LA ROUTE)

PROPERTY TAX DEFERRAL ACT, 2008 /

LOI DE 2008 SUR LE REPORT

DES IMPÔTS FONCIERS

The House met at 0900.

Prayers.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

ORDER OF BUSINESS

Hon. David Caplan: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker: I believe we have unanimous consent to put forward a motion regarding division of time for debate on the motion for third reading of Bill 80.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Agreed? Agreed.

Hon. David Caplan: Thank you, Speaker. I move that the time available until 10:45 this morning be divided equally among the recognized parties to debate on the motion for third read of Bill 80,

An Act to establish Algoma University and dissolve Algoma University College, following which the Speaker shall put every question necessary to dispose of the motion for third reading of Bill 80 without further debate or amendment.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Agreed to.

ALGOMA UNIVERSITY ACT, 2008 /

LOI DE 2008 SUR L'UNIVERSITÉ ALGOMA

Mr. Milloy moved third reading of the following bill:

Bill 80,

An Act to establish Algoma University and to dissolve Algoma University College / Projet de loi 80, Loi portant création de l'Université Algoma et dissolution de l'Algoma University College.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Debate?

Hon. John Milloy: It's a pleasure to be here this morning to address this bill once again. We had an opportunity yesterday to participate in second reading debate and pass it. I just want to indicate at the outset that I'll be sharing my time with my colleague the member from Sault Ste. Marie, where Algoma University College is located, and he, of course, will want to speak at some length about the importance of this bill to his community.

I just plan to spend a minute this morning, before turning it over to my colleague, to really summarize what I had a chance to say yesterday, that in my mind this bill is really recognizing three things: first of all the excellence in education that takes place at Algoma University College. As members know, it has been in operation since 1964. It operates offering degrees from Laurentian University and in many ways has a degree of independence already. It has a board of governors and an administration which puts forward really an excellent program for students who go there. By taking this step, we'll be able to enhance the educational experience.

The second point is the special role that Algoma University College already plays in the north and, as an independent university, would play in northern Ontario, allowing students from the Sault Ste. Marie area and beyond in northern Ontario an opportunity to study closer to home, to pursue it at an outstanding undergraduate institution, receive their skills and stay in the north. I know President Ross was indicating the other day, very correctly, that she hopes they will have students from across the province and the country, and we certainly hope to see Algoma flourish. It still has that special role in the north in providing a place for those from northern Ontario.

The third point is its special role in terms of aboriginal education. As I had a chance to indicate yesterday, and I imagine my colleague from Sault Ste. Marie will go into it in some detail, right now at Algoma University College, 20% of the students are First Nations. It has a very, very special link with the First Nations community in the area and again will serve as a bit of a beacon in northern Ontario for First Nations education; indeed, if members look at the bill, it's one of the special missions going forward.

I am absolutely delighted that this is my first piece of legislation as a minister. I want to congratulate the administration at Algoma University College. I also want to make reference to Laurentian University, which has played such an important role in Algoma's life and is very supportive of this move. I also want to congratulate the community of Sault Ste. Marie, which came out in force. I had a chance to mention yesterday a delegation here in the gallery as well as a large delegation which was joined by TV link in Sault Ste. Marie itself, and they expressed their appreciation for this.

I want to pay a tribute to the local MPP, David Orazietti, as well as Mike Brown, from the area around it, and all the northern members, who have been supportive of this. Finally, I do want to pay tribute to my colleagues in the opposition who have been supportive of this bill and have worked co-operatively to have it go through. I think it's an excellent symbol, when we can all come together for a good piece of legislation and work to see it passed in an expedited manner.

With that, I urge all members to support this bill. I think it takes another important step in ensuring excellence in post-secondary education in this province.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Further debate?

Mr. David Orazietti: This is a very exciting bill for our community and for Algoma University College and their community. First of all, I have, obviously, a long list of individuals to thank and congratulate. Of course, you run the risk of not including everybody, but we're going to give it an attempt here anyway, because I think some of these individuals certainly deserve some recognition for the very, very important role that they have played in helping us arrive at this particular point.

I have some time this morning, and I do want to be able to speak a little bit about the importance of the institution to our community, to what this bill means to our community, as well as the important role that the First Nations play in Algoma University College, and a little bit about the history of the institution and how we've arrived at this point.

First of all, I can't say enough about the Premier's leadership on this. This is very, very important to the community and it's not every day that we move forward with legislation that has the effect of creating a new university in the province of Ontario. It is indeed historic. The Premier has been behind this from day one, so I want to thank him very much for his support. I also want to thank Minister Bentley, who came up in June 2007 and met with the university community and announced that we would be moving forward with legislation for independence. And today we're here speaking to Bill 80 in third reading. It's been a fairly quick week.

I will also want to congratulate my colleagues across the floor here, who have been supportive as well. I have heard nothing but positive comments from them. I know the Conservatives and the NDP have both been supportive of this, so I want to thank them for that as well.

Minister Milloy and his political and ministry staff have been exceptional in their support for Algoma University. I want to congratulate them and thank them very much on behalf of our community, and our school community, for the very important role that they have played in moving the legislation along this quickly.

The school community has worked very hard. I should tell you that, having had the privilege of serving as a board of governors' member at Algoma University College in 2000 as a second-term city councillor and being a part of the charter steering committee for independence at Algoma University College, this is something that has been supported for some time. It has seen a somewhat long history.

In 1992, the school made it public that they wanted to be an independent university, and they've had challenges in getting there. But today is obviously a very proud day for the institution and for our community.

There are a great number of individuals who have worked very hard at Algoma University College in preparation for this and are very hopeful, obviously, that this bill will pass: Dr. Celia Ross, the president of Algoma University College; the academic dean, Dr. Arthur Perlini, the chair of the board; Bud Wildman, who is no stranger to this place—he was a member here in the Legislature for some 24 or 25 years—as well as all of the staff. There are a lot of unsung heroes at Algoma University College who really support this move and care about the future of their institution.

We're going to go over just a couple of important points about the college. The college was established in 1964 as an affiliate college of Laurentian University and currently has about 1,200 students. This is not a college that has been around for five, 10 or even 20 years; this college has a very long history in the province of Ontario, and they're ready for independence. They've reached a level of maturity and critical mass, I would say, that allows for a very smooth and productive transition as an independent university in northern Ontario.

Algoma University College specializes in undergraduate liberal arts and sciences education. Its location and historical roots provide the basis for the institution's distinctive awareness and commitment to northern Ontario and native communities in the region.

Algoma's enrolment has been growing significantly over the last number of years, certainly over the term of our government. Everyone recalls the double cohort that sent many students out of the high school system into colleges and universities across the province in significant numbers. They've grown by about 17% in the last five to six years.

The school currently has its own board of governors and its own senate, but they receive all approval for their programs from Laurentian University. Graduating students from Algoma University College currently see "Laurentian University" on their degrees. That would obviously change if this bill is passed.

I also want to thank Judith Woodsworth, the president of Laurentian University, for her support in moving forward. Laurentian has been very co-operative, very supportive, and knows that this is important for Algoma University. In a competitive age, where universities and colleges are vying for programs and for students, I think it is very commendable of Laurentian, to say "We fully endorse and support the direction that the province wants to go in with the university college, as well as the school community."

You should also know that Algoma offers degrees in over 30 programs, including programs like computer science, business administration, biology, chemistry, geography, geology, community, economic and social development.

As well, under our government, we have approved a master's in gaming technology at Algoma University College. It's the only program like it in the country. It's a very important program. I had an opportunity last year to visit the school with Minister Bentley and meet some of the students who were enrolled in this program. It's not a large group of students, but it's a very unique program that is based on the knowledge economy and has an extremely high job placement rate. The students were from all over the world; there were students from Brazil, China, Europe, the United States and throughout Canada.

I was very impressed by Algoma's ability to attract students from different countries to this program. I know that when I was on the board, Krista Yetman was out doing recruitment in southeast Asia and different parts of the world to try to bring students to Algoma University College. They have a significant presence of international students, and I know they're continuing to work to enhance the international presence at the school. That's certainly very commendable.

If the legislation passes, it would make Algoma University the north's fourth independent university. I think it's important that we take a few minutes to look at the history of the institution so we can understand how we've arrived at this point. As I said, I think Algoma is frankly quite ready for independence and has been for a number of years.

"The desire to establish an undergraduate liberal arts college in Sault Ste. Marie originated as a broad citizen movement in the 1950s. In October of 1964, Algoma College Association was incorporated by letters patent through the province of Ontario. One year later, Algoma College was established as a non-sectarian institution affiliated with Laurentian University.

"In September of 1967, Algoma College opened its doors to students. Its program for full-time students was limited to the first year of the B.A. and B.Sc. degrees. In part-time studies, the college was permitted to offer the full-time B.A. program. In the early years, part-time enrolment expanded rapidly to over 1,000 students by 1969-70." The school was going strong.

"The strong community support that led to the founding of the college continued during the early years of its" ongoing work and "development. The citizens of Sault Ste Marie, through their municipal government, provided major assistance to the college in the form of capital and operating funds. In addition, local industries, businesses, service clubs and individuals established a scholarship program for students attending the college."

This is a deeply entrenched institution in our community, and our community is passionate about it and the region is passionate about it. I see my colleague sitting over here, the member for Algoma—Manitoulin, who is a long-standing member of this Legislature and whose communities in Algoma—Manitoulin greatly support, and whose young people greatly support, Algoma University College. I know he has worked very hard as well to support the legislation today, and I want to thank him for his work. I should add that one of his daughters had the opportunity to go to Algoma University and has recently graduated—

Mr. Michael A. Brown: Paula.

Mr. David Orazietti: —Paula, he's telling me. He's quite proud of that experience, and I think she's still in Sault Ste. Marie.

Mr. Jeff Leal: Isn't she getting married soon?

Mr. Michael A. Brown: She just got married two weeks ago in Sault Ste. Marie.

Mr. David Orazietti: She just got married two weeks ago in Sault Ste. Marie. I think the member is more proud of that.

Applause.

Mr. David Orazietti: The year 1971 marked a great turning point in the college's history with respect to both program and facilities. In recognition of the rapid process of growth of the college, the department of university affairs at the time authorized the expansion of full-time in arts to the full three years. In September 1971, they added the second year and in 1972 they added the third year of programming. "In addition, in September 1971, the college was relocated to its own campus. The college acquired by lease Shingwauk Hall and the Shingwuak site, including 53 acres of land fronting on the St.

Marys River. Extensive renovations were completed to Shingwuak Hall," and temporary buildings were erected to provide a science laboratory, music conservatory, language laboratory, office and classroom facilities.

In 1973, there was the additional construction of the library wing. "In 1975, with the assistance of a grant from the Ministry of Colleges and Universities, the college purchased Shingwauk Hall and 37 acres of land surrounding the buildings. In 1989, the Arthur A. Wishart Library was opened and other renovations were completed." Some of you may remember the name Arthur Wishart, from my community of Sault Ste. Marie. He was a former Attorney General, and the Arthur Wishart Act was something that he was probably most remembered by. He was certainly well respected in our community, and very fittingly, a library wing was opened in his name.

"In 1992, the George Leach Centre was opened for athletics and recreation." The 39,000-square-foot George Leach Centre provides a wide range of facilities. The centre's gymnasium features three regulation court surfaces that can accommodate all types of sports: badminton, basketball, volleyball and tennis. I know the folks at Algoma University College are very proud of their athletic centre and it means a lot to the community. It's also available not only for students, but for community use. They can play indoor tennis there in the winter months. Having gone through the winter we just went through, certainly in northern Ontario, I know it was well used.

Mr. Michael A. Brown: Is it over?

Mr. David Orazietti: I think it is over.

A student residence was completed and occupied in September 1995, with an additional building opened in September 2001. "With the completion of this construction, Algoma's facilities are as modern as any in the province."

The university is sensitive to the educational needs of the community and certainly responds to these needs. I want to congratulate Algoma University on their very active engagement of students in the Sault Ste. Marie area as well as throughout the Algoma region, who are tremendous supporters of the school. The Arthur Wishart Library is also accessible for public use, as is the George Leach Centre. Many students, faculty and staff lend their knowledge and actively support many community organizations, from government and research, to cultural agencies who participate and are actively involved at the university. Obviously, independence would enhance this role in the community.

I want to spend a couple of minutes speaking about the role of the First Nations at the school. The aboriginal component at AUC is alive and well and very strong at the school. In fact, 20% of the enrolment at Algoma University College is First Nations, and it's expected to grow. That is a credit to those folks working at the college, and the First Nation community representatives who are very actively engaging First Nations in the region to undertake post-secondary education and training, knowing how important it is for all of us.

I know the First Nations folks are very progressive in their thinking about the programs that they want to see offered at the college and that they are currently offering. Algoma currently offers unique programs in Anishnawbe and Ojibwa culture, history and language, including the only B.A. program in the Ojibwa language anywhere. Again, Algoma does considerable outreach with its First Nations.

The Shingwauk Education Trust and the historic relationship of the First Nations people with Algoma University is incredibly important to the school. The trust has the ultimate goal of establishing the first native university in Ontario, coexisting with Algoma, and they view Algoma's independence as a positive step in that direction.

I can certainly recall comments by National Grand Chief Phil Fontaine at Algoma University College around First Nations education and the importance of educating and engaging First Nations peoples, and having them very involved in the post-secondary education experience, to give them the skills and education they need to participate in today's knowledge-based economy.

They recognize that, their leaders recognized that, and they are working well together at Algoma University College to ensure that this goal is met. The Shingwauk Education Trust was founded based on a vision of an Ojibwa chief, Chief Shingwauk, in 1875. His vision was to create what was referred to as a "teaching wigwam," with an overall goal of providing education to Anishinabek students.

The goals of the trust have not changed since the Shingwauk vision in 1875, and the organization continues to strive to meet the goals for the success of the Shingwauk University Centre of Excellence for Indigenous Studies. They have a number of goals. I just want to mention a few of these here, because they are very important to the First Nations community at the college.

They want to be able to provide opportunities for educational development of Anishnawbe people and other students of native heritage, to deliver educational, social, cultural and economic development programs designed to advance the goals of aboriginal people in the province of Ontario and to initiate co-operative education programs of cross-cultural education between Anishnawbe people and others.

Their mission statement: The organization would like to see the creation of the Shingwauk University Centre of Excellence and to see the centre become a post-secondary educational institute with the seven Anishinawbek First Nations in Sault Ste. Marie, dedicated to the vision of Chief Shingwauk and the original mandate under the site and guise of the Shingwauk trust.

They strive to deliver holistic learning to advance Anishnawbe people and other students of native heritage. The Shingwauk University Centre of Excellence for Indigenous Studies will be committed to fulfilling the Shingwauk Education Trust mandate to carry on educational programs for Anishnawbe people and other students of native heritage in order to increase knowledge respecting teaching methods, teaching skills and teaching aids through research, education, and publication and distribution of books, papers, reports and other documents that are relevant to First Nation peoples.

The Shingwauk Education Trust has a legacy to carry on the vision of one man who had the insight to look at an important way to meet the needs of his people, to ensure that the children were able to develop the capacities to develop their own land and resources. The trust believes that as native peoples have evolved from hunters and gatherers to the agricultural age and the industrial age, they recognize that they are now in a knowledge age where their advancement through post-secondary education is key to their success, and I think we probably all agree. They have stated that the tool needed to move from the industrial age to the knowledge age is the medium of post-secondary education.

In recent years, the trust has noted that Statistics Canada reported that from 1901 to 2001, the aboriginal ancestry population increased tenfold while the total population of Canada rose by a factor of six. They recognize that many corporations have been made aware that the fastest-growing population is the Anishnawbe people of Canada and that they will play a major role in the workforce of tomorrow. It's very important that we encourage and support the goals of First Nations to gain post-secondary education and the skills and training they need to be successful participants.

The trust is forging ahead to develop a First-Nation-owned, managed and controlled education institute with relevant curriculum and course content. They seek to develop programs to meet the needs of First Nation communities in the areas of leadership, administration, policy development and analysis and financial accountability, and to assist with the implementation of new national and international government initiatives.

I want to just read very briefly here. Here's what Darrell Boissoneau, who is the president of the Shingwauk trust, said in a letter in reference to the introduction of the legislation this week:

"On behalf of the board of the Shingwauk Education Trust we want to extend our congratulations on achieving legislative support" for independence for Algoma University.

"We believe that an independent post-secondary institution situated here in Sault Ste. Marie on lands that are set aside for Anishnawbe education will be of significant importance for student needs and excellence.

"I wish to convey the sentiments of Chief Lyle Sayers from the Garden River First Nation"—my understanding is that Lyle Sayers is a descendent of Chief Shingwauk, who is now the chief of Garden River First Nation and who completely endorses this legislation and supports the independence of Algoma University College—"and myself that the success of our efforts are linked to the common understandings of the covenant and that also requires Shingwauk Kinoomaage Gamig to achieve ministerial consent as soon as possible. In this regard we look to your continued support for Shingwauk's vision to take its rightful place."

I really want to thank Darrell Boissoneau, who is the president of the Shingwauk trust, as well as Chief Lyle Sayers of the Garden River First Nation, for their wholehearted endorsement of this legislation. This is a very significant step in helping the institution move forward.

I would be remiss if I did not mention the work of a Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities from a number of years ago. The member from Vaughan, Greg Sorbara, was, as you know, the Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities some time ago.

I was related a story by an individual who was the chair of the board at Algoma University. His name was Geri Nori. He passed away some time ago, but before he did, he told me about his time at Algoma University College as the chair of the board and how important provincial support was to them. He told me that at one point the school was in debt around $1 million or $1.5 million, I think it was. Back in the 1980s, that was a little more than it is today, but it was significant for a university college of this size.

Geri Nori was a well-known lawyer in our community. He actually practised law at the Wishart firm in Sault Ste. Marie. Wishart was a former Attorney General here at Queen's Park. Geri told me about a discussion with the Ministry of Training, Colleges and Universities. He was asked to come, with the president, to Toronto and meet with them around their circumstances.

He anticipated at the time that Algoma University College was in fact going to be closed, that there wasn't going to be a future for Algoma University College and that the opportunity for young people in our community to gain a post-secondary education locally was not going to be there any longer. Geri was very impressed, when he had the opportunity to sit down with Minister Sorbara at the time, that they were going to find a way to meet their financial commitments and obligations despite the struggles of the school at that time. Certainly, their future was very much in question.

I asked the former minister about that conversation and I said, "Here's what Geri Nori from Sault Ste. Marie told me about this. What do you remember about this? It sounds like it was a very important decision that was made and your support was instrumental in ensuring that Algoma University College remained open in Sault Ste. Marie." He said to me that when he was the minister he had travelled to British Columbia for some type of meeting.

A small community college was closed in a community in BC and he remembers the circumstances around that, how unfortunate that was and the lack of opportunity that resulted from that. He came back here and certainly did not want to see that happen to any school in Ontario.

I want to thank Greg Sorbara who, in recognition, was made an honorary member of Algoma University College in 2000. In 2005, Greg Sorbara was part of a ribbon-cutting ceremony at the ICT building, the Information Communication and Technology building, at Algoma University College, which is now the Great West Life Amphitheatre, a 32,000-square-foot facility on campus—very fitting. In a speech in Thunder Bay, he congratulated Algoma University and said it was, according to him, his favourite university campus in Ontario. I want to thank him for his historic support of the university.

It was very fitting to have some of the information from the previous board members at Algoma University College in recognition of a contribution by the Peterson government of the day in supporting and ensuring that Algoma University College remained open.

It was also quite fitting that just this past week Minister Milloy and I had the opportunity, with Dr. Ross and Bud Wildman, to participate in a live video-link conference from the Great West Life Amphitheatre. The theatre at the university was packed, there was standing room only, and through a live video link we were able to talk a bit about the importance of this legislation and celebrate that together with the Algoma University community. I did want to mention that, because it was instrumental and very important in terms of the school remaining open.

Our government very clearly recognizes that a degree-granting charter would not only strengthen Algoma University College but would also have a very significant positive impact on our community's economic, cultural and social landscape. The projected enrolment at the school is expected to double to around 3,000 students as they continue to attract students from throughout Ontario and all over the world.

Degrees would be granted under Algoma University's name rather than under Laurentian's name and would provide for more autonomy at Algoma to pursue its own aspirations in programming to better address the needs in the community and throughout the region, in partnership with the First Nation peoples of the province and in the region—again, a long history, established in 1964, I think. Algoma has reached that level of maturity and independence on its own.

Through a legislative process here, I'm very hopeful that the bill will pass. Again, I want to recognize the opposition parties and members, and to thank them for their support in helping to move this process along at a little more rapid pace. I know it's greatly appreciated by the community and by the institution.

I want to just read very briefly what Dr. Ross had to say about the importance of the legislation being introduced: "Algoma University College is delighted. The introduction of the charter legislation and the passing of the first reading in the Legislative Assembly of Ontario today" is a giant step toward the launching of a new university. "Algoma U students are future leaders" who will "use their education" earned here "to transform their communities. We will be the university for students who want innovative, community-based, hands-on programs in technology, science, business and liberal arts."

So Dr. Ross is certainly very excited about the university's opportunity to become independent. I know that our mayor and council have supported this initiative as well. Council supported a $250,000 contribution toward the Information and Communication Technology Centre that was built at Algoma University College and opened a number of years ago. As well, they've recently supported independence with another $200,000 contribution. The mayor was part of the video conference and spoke very glowingly about the importance of this and about council's commitment to it.

I want to thank Mayor Rowswell and members of city council in Sault Ste. Marie for their ongoing support and endorsement. Jamie Caicco, who is a councillor in ward one, is the current member from council on the university board. I know he has been very supportive of it as well. Brady Irwin, who is vice-chair of the board, was able to participate in the video link and actually helped to host that event as we, I think for the first time at Algoma University—I'm not sure whether that was the first time we were able to do that at the media studio; I think they had to get some equipment to make that happen. I want to thank them for all their support as well.

As members of the House know, we have made significant improvements in post-secondary education over our term in government. I want to congratulate Minister Milloy on his ongoing leadership when it comes to post-secondary enrolment opportunities, funding and support. We restored grants for students; we have 100,000 more students in our colleges and universities today than we did when we came to government; and we have doubled funding available for student aid to $1.5 billion—very significant increases and support.

We froze tuition for the first time in the province's history, until we could find the resources to ensure that we move forward in a way that is manageable and affordable for students. I'm very pleased with the support our government has shown for post-secondary institutions. Certainly in my community, Sault College has been a beneficiary of our government, as has Algoma University College.

Certainly this is a historic opportunity for Algoma University College. I am very pleased and so supportive of this legislation. Again, I really want to thank Premier McGuinty, members of cabinet, our caucus and Minister Milloy for their support. Without their support this wouldn't happen.

It's not every day that this happens. The school indicated in 1992 that they wanted to be independent. There were other opportunities to make that occur, and it didn't happen. We're here today to get that job done, that very important work of moving Algoma University College forward to Algoma University.

I think it's an incredible opportunity, not only for students in Sault Ste. Marie, throughout the district of Algoma and the province, but beyond. I know that the officials at Algoma University College will do a fantastic job of moving forward with Algoma University if the legislation passes.

Mr. Ted Chudleigh: I rise to make a few brief comments about this bill.

I'd also like to congratulate the member for Algoma—Manitoulin on the marriage of his daughter and on her graduation. Can grandchildren be far behind?

Mr. Michael A. Brown: Another daughter—in two weeks.

Mr. Ted Chudleigh: Two weeks?

Mr. Michael A. Brown: A different daughter.

Mr. Ted Chudleigh: We'll make that point clear: It's a different daughter.

Interjection.

Mr. Ted Chudleigh: This will be the fourth grandchild. That's a great landmark. As we pass through this life, grandchildren are one of the joys we all will hopefully enjoy eventually. Personally, I have 13 grandchildren, and they keep me very busy, especially at Christmastime and birthday time.

Mr. Rosario Marchese: It's a huge issue.

Mr. Ted Chudleigh: It's a huge issue: grandchildren and the joy they bring into the lives of seniors in this province.

Secondly, I'd like to congratulate the government on bringing forward this bill to convert Algoma University College into a university. It's important that these educational facilities are there for our future. Ontario has one of the great bases for educating college and university students. Our college system and the expansion of our university system began in the 1960s under former Premier Bill Davis, when he was education minister—a Conservative government, I might add.

We grew and expanded our college system and our university system, so that Ontario is perhaps the most well educated jurisdiction in North America. That puts us in a very enviable position to be able to take advantage of wherever the world economy and world business takes us. Having a well-educated population gives us the flexibility to take advantage of where we might go in the future.

I would also put an oar in the water for the expansion of Wilfrid Laurier University, which is currently looking at opening a campus in Milton, which is the fastest-growing community in all of Canada and will continue to be for some time in the future. A large university site—I think it's 150 acres—is hopefully going to be created there if this government sees fit to do some funding in that process. We look forward to that coming to fruition as well.

I'm very pleased to see that the new university will have an economic development program within it. That's very important, because the people of the north, the people of Algoma and indeed the people of Ontario should understand that economic development is extremely important in the future of the province. In fact, if this government had understood the importance of economic development, we might not be having the difficulties we're seeing in the manufacturing industry today.

It would seem that this government, in their search for the future in Ontario, has decided that the future of Ontario is based on biotechnology, information technology and digital information—going down that path—which sounds all very well. It's very futuristic; those are the industries of the future. That is what this government has decided, and I take issue with that, because I think that in a well-rounded economy there are many different facets, not just two.

Everything the government seems to be doing is moving down the road toward digital information, biotechnology, information technology and all the futuristic jobs they would bring. I think the theory—of course, in a university you would learn a lot about theory and economic development—that leads the government in that direction is that information is the future and education is the key. Of course, it's focused on two important assumptions. One of those two assumptions is that the price of energy remains low enough in order to ship manufactured products around the world.

In an economic development program at the university, you might look for other options and you might look for other opportunities, because perhaps the energy prices in this world are not going to remain as low in the future as they have been. For instance, we're seeing today that the price of a barrel of oil is moving through $130. A year and a half ago, it was $40 a barrel. It would seem to me that shipping manufactured products around the world while our manufacturing industry goes through a demise may not take place.

Perhaps the death of our manufacturing industry in this province, which the government seems to have accepted, is a little premature.

One of the other key assumptions is that the borders around the world will remain open to trade. Something that we have seen just recently, especially since 9/11, is borders that are far more difficult to cross. Therefore, it would seem to me that the two assumptions that the government is working on have some serious problems associated with them, in that we may not be going in the direction that the government's philosophies perhaps would suggest that the province should be going.

High energy prices, of course, are going to cause a flip-flop in the way the world trades goods. It seems to me that shipping automobiles from China and washing machines and refrigerators from the Orient is very expensive. As energy prices increase, it becomes more expensive and we become more dependent on those items as our manufacturing industry disappears.

However, if we look at digital information and information technology, which the economic development part of Algoma University will be teaching, I'm sure—what that would say is that it's far cheaper to ship information technology from the Orient and from India than it is to ship refrigerators and automobiles. So the flip-flop of what we expect to happen in the future may not happen at all.

The flip-flop is that we may be set with manufacturing being the main industry in Ontario in the future, while information technology, biotechnology and all those things that are easily transported around the world become part and parcel of development in the Asian theatre. Those are some thoughts that we might have concerning economic development.

One of the problems that we see here is that when governments make decisions as to what direction a province or a jurisdiction may take, it's extremely dangerous because that government is quite often wrong in their assumptions. Who would have believed a year and a half ago that we'd be looking at $130 for a barrel of oil, and the consequences that the shipping costs and the disruption of manufacturing sources around the world would be having on us today? Those kinds of things are not necessarily predictable.

I think a government's main thrust should be—in economic development and in the care of the provincial economy—to ensure that we have as many options open to us in the future as is humanly possible, making sure that we have the ability to manufacture, we have the ability to be involved in biotechnology, that we have the ability to be involved in information technology and digital information, to have the ability to have a strong agricultural unit, to have the ability to have a strong tourism industry and to have the ability to be in as many different sectors as we can possibly be.

We do that through education, through the expansion of universities—such as we're debating here today—and we do that through good economic policy and tax bases that a jurisdiction can offer to industry around the world, so that they can come into this province and be competitive with other industries around the world, rather than a government trying to guide the direction that a province should go in. I consider that to be an extremely dangerous process. Why? Because so often in the past, when governments have tried to do that, they've been wrong.

You can look around the world and see examples of government-led economies that have failed and are in poverty today, where they had opportunities in the past.

Government choosing various industries is something that has led to failure in many different areas. I know that in the granting of monies to industry, for instance, this government has given out huge amounts of money to the automobile industry to encourage them to stay in Ontario. They've given money out to the Big Three—Ford, Chrysler and General Motors. Precious little money has been given out to the foreign car companies that have come here and are assembling or manufacturing cars in this country; however, those car companies are increasing in size, and they're increasing their market share.

Foreign companies are manufacturing more and more automobiles, and hiring more and more people, while the traditional automobile industry in this country is shrinking. That's a very dangerous situation to be in. When the government inserts themselves into that marketplace, they do so at great folly; they are supporting companies that may not be here in the future because of their inefficient and traditional ways of doing business. They can't seem to break out of the mould of doing business in the same way today as they've done it in the past.

I thank you for allowing me these comments that have perhaps strayed a little bit from the motion at hand. However, education in this province is extremely important. It is something that is going to dictate our future and should provide for the well-being of our children and grandchildren, which we started out talking about today. I look forward to further debate and to seeing this bill pass, and to this university coming into place. I also look forward to the university coming into place in Milton, as we move down the road in that debate as well.

Mr. Rosario Marchese: I'm happy to rise and speak to Bill 80. Welcome, citizens of Ontario, to the parliamentary channel. It's not yet 10 o'clock in the morning. I'm hoping and assuming that you've had your espresso or your regular coffee, and that those of you who like tea have had your tea and that you're steady, ready, willing and happy to listen to the debates in this Legislature—at 9 o'clock in the morning, courtesy of the House leader of the Liberal Party, the Premier and the whiz kids in the Liberal Party. I'm assuming that most of you are at home and not golfing, but if you're golfing, you might be able to catch it later. It's not a big deal.

This is one of those rare opportunities where we get to co-operate with the government and collaborate from time to time. It's a good thing. I was happy to hear the history from the member for Sault Ste. Marie, and I was happy to have respite from the usual oppositional kind of role we play—until the last two or three minutes when he started praising his government about what it does, and then I thought, "Oh, my God. He's provoking me." Right? Because here I am trying to be so nice and trying to collaborate with the government, and then he spoils the 35-, 40-minute speech with what the government is doing.

So I asked myself, "Shall I be provoked by that, or shall I simply try to maintain my composure and be nice and avoid that," because this is clearly an occasion to celebrate. It's a bill that speaks to the possibility of a promising new post-secondary education opportunity in this province, and we should be celebrating that.

The member from Sault Ste. Marie gave so much history that makes so many of my comments redundant, but he does make a good point about what Algoma University College does that is unique to education in the north. It's a point that I wanted to point out but I'm glad to repeat it for emphasis, and that is that the school has a special focus on serving aboriginal students and that they offer a BA program in the Ojibwa language. As many of you know, aboriginal people have virtually lost their languages across Canada, which in my view is a tragedy. It's something we should be promoting, supporting.

Where many of us think of aboriginal people, of First Nations people, as a nation, they ought to have that privilege and the right to their own language. When you have Algoma University College currently having a BA in the Ojibwa language, it's a big deal and it's something that should be honoured by those of us who take pride in such things. It is something they're doing that is a unique program and a learning opportunity for many aboriginal kids in the north, and that's something I wanted to make mention of.

It's an opportunity for me to briefly say, as I work with the government on this, that I had the honour of meeting with Bud Wildman, as the chair of the board, and Celia Ross a couple of years ago. I saw the university and some of its programs and was a witness to some of the programming and environment that the university offered. I wanted to remind some of the members in the Legislature about what he told me, because in 1999, their board made a commitment to operating in the black, to steady expansion, to further development of their partnership with the Anishnawbe community and to moving toward independence.

They opened discussions with SET, which is the Shingwauk Education Trust, and established a joint working group of representatives of SET and the Algoma University College to explore avenues of co-operation and to map out directions for the future post-secondary education at the Shingwauk site, especially how they could work collaboratively to bring Shingwauk's vision to fruition.

He reminded me about the difficulties and the relationships to be worked out on all sides for all of them: the Algoma University College board, the administration, the senate, faculty, staff, students, alumni, SET, GRFN, Batchewana First Nation and other First Nations organizations, CSAA and the wider community of Sault Ste. Marie and Algoma district.

It's a reminder about how long the process takes from when the discussion begins to the final bill that is before us, that there were difficulties, disagreements that had to be worked out, and many had to be involved in that process. For that, I thank all of the participants. Obviously for my part, I thank Bud Wildman, the chair of Algoma University, and the dean, Celia Ross, for their efforts and their work over the years. I know that the government members smile when I thank Bud Wildman in particular, but he has been the chair for many years.

Hon. George Smitherman: What was that name again?

Mr. Rosario Marchese: Bud Wildman. He has been the chair of the board for many years, since 1999. The government members have already thanked themselves and thanked us too, and I already said I'm happy to collaborate with the government on this bill, so we are all in this together. This is true.

I wanted to remind the folks that a covenant was signed in a very impressive and emotional ceremony at the GRFN by Grand Chief Phil Fontaine of the Assembly of First Nations, SET president Darrell Boissoneau and Bud Wildman, who was representing the AUC board, before representatives of residential school survivors, national and Ontario aboriginal organizations, members of the Batchewana First Nation, the GRFN and the AUC community in Sault Ste. Marie. It was an impressive ceremony where this covenant was signed.

The work has been done. There are obviously many challenges they will be facing and some of those challenges will be the work to reach out, to recruit many other students across Ontario and Canada, which I'm convinced they will do and they will do successfully. Many other challenges we'll have will have to do with funding. We are hopeful, based on the comments made by the member for Sault Ste. Marie, by the minister himself, that whatever funding is necessary for this university to work will be provided, because if it is not provided, they will be in difficulties.

That's a challenge they face and I'm hoping it's not a challenge the government will face in providing the support. If the support does come, then this university has a lot to be proud of, and the government too, because, after all, it's their bill. They can take credit for all of the years of work done by so many, including themselves, presumably, based on what I hear. So we can all, in the end, take credit.

I'm hoping that the support will be there, and with that, I end my remarks and congratulate all who have been involved in bringing this bill forward.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Further debate?

Seeing none, Mr. Milloy has moved third reading of Bill 80. Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Third reading agreed to.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson):

Be it resolved that the bill do now pass and be entitled as in the motion.

Hon. David Caplan: I seek consent for the House to recess until 10:45 a.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Agreed? Agreed. We're recessed until question period.

The House recessed from 1002 to 1045.

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Good morning, members. Good morning, guests.

On behalf of the member from London North Centre: in the east members' gallery, we'd like to welcome Janet Collins and Celia MacDonald.

On behalf of the member from Hamilton East—Stoney Creek: in the west members' gallery, John Hall from Kamloops, BC; Karen Cerniuk from Kamloops, BC; and Larry Bancroft from Kamloops, BC. They're here visiting the Canadian Labour Congress convention.

On behalf of the member from Brampton—Springdale: Richard Boyes, president of the Ontario Association of Fire Chiefs and the Oakville Fire Chief; and Chris McDonough, president of the Ontario Municipal Fire Prevention Officers Association and fire prevention officer of the town of Georgina.

On behalf of page Dina Gang: her mother, Yaffa Gang, and her father, Barry Gang, in the west members' gallery.

On behalf of the member from Richmond Hill are a number of guests joining us today: Faheem Khan, Khalid Qureshi, Lal Khan Malik, Naseem Mahdi, Abdul Aziz Khalifa, Kaleem Malik, Aslam Daud, Asif Khan, Farhan Khokhar, Nasir Khan, Ashraf Sial, Tanya Khan, Qudsia Hamid and Amtul Rafiq Zafar.

On behalf of the member from Sarnia—Lambton, in the west members' gallery: Ron and Jean Bell, Jim and Nancy Hibbert, Larry and Sharon Watson, Ken and Christine Jaques, Bruce and Marg Gray, Gary and Dolores McGregor, Rick and Shirley Redmond, Jim and Bev Maitland—hi, Jim and Bev; friends of mine—Gerald and Edith Bailey, Mike Watson, Bill Allingham, Gord and Bernice Whiting, and Ernie Williams.

As well, I'd like to ask all members on behalf of the Speaker to welcome in the Speaker's gallery today a delegation from the Republic of Latvia, led by His Excellency Gundars Daudze, the Chairman of the Parliament. Accompanying the delegation is His Excellency Margers Krams, ambassador of the Republic of Latvia to Canada. Please join me in welcoming them and our other guests as well. Welcome today.

ORAL QUESTIONS

INFECTIOUS DISEASE CONTROL

Mrs. Elizabeth Witmer: My question is to the Minister of Health. For several years now, you have been travelling the province and touting your interest in building public confidence in Ontario's health system. However, your actions in recent weeks—in fact, your actions during the term of your office—when it comes to dealing with infectious diseases such as C. difficile indicate that there is tremendous doubt and concern in the minds of the public, rather than any confidence whatsoever. I ask you today, are you prepared to restore public confidence in our health care system and implement an investigation into C. difficile?

Hon. George Smitherman: The matter of C. difficile, amongst other infectious diseases, is a substantial matter for the health care system. I just don't tend to agree entirely with the premise of the honourable member's question, which places all of the expectations of the public on the back of the minister at Queen's Park.

We share in a health care system that has not performed as well as it can. On that, everybody would agree. I agree that this is a matter of confidence, most certainly. I think that the actions that have been taken, which have been responded to positively by the health care system and especially the hospital sector, are a very big advantage for patient safety initiatives in Ontario. I have confidence that Dr. Baker can lead Ontarians forward in a way—the health care system and patients alike—that enhances the requisite confidence in our public health care system. Those are the steps we're focused on.

Mrs. Elizabeth Witmer: Despite the warning you got when the C. difficile outbreak occurred in Quebec, despite the recommendations of the Canadian Medical Association to develop an outbreak plan and to deal with it, and certainly despite what happened in the Soo, you have failed to protect people in the province of Ontario. As Minister of Health, you are accountable to protect the health of the people.

I ask you again, are you prepared to instigate a public inquiry now, an investigation into what happened, in order that we can restore public confidence in Ontario's health system, which is currently sadly lacking?

Hon. George Smitherman: I would say, just on the matter of confidence, that the honourable member is not the only arbiter of this kind of circumstance. Indeed, 650,000 more people in Ontario have access to a family physician. This is an ingredient of confidence in our health care system, and I don't think it's appropriate for the honourable member to conclude that only one matter is the determinant.

I know that we can do better and we have to do better. Where the honourable member is a little bit off base is when she speaks about circumstances in Quebec as if that is a warning to only one individual and that the CEOs of hospitals that have experienced challenges with C. difficile, as an example, or the chiefs of staff or the workers in those environments don't share the health system obligation to do our very best for our patients. I know that we can do better. We have all the opportunity, through the investigation that has been done by the coroner, through the work that's been done by doctors like Dr.

Gardam, to implement their best advice and to have immediate effects for patients. That's what I'm—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Final supplementary.

Mrs. Elizabeth Witmer: The member seems to forget that this is a very tragic and very sad situation and that these deaths were preventable. I believe that we owe it to the people whose family members have passed away and to the people who are going into our hospitals to ensure that we have all of the information as to what happened and why.

Yesterday you indicated that we were going to do reporting, but what you didn't indicate was the plan to ensure there are no more of these preventable deaths. That's why I call upon you again, Minister. Will you commit to an investigation, an inquiry, into C. difficile in order to ensure that we know why this happened and make sure that no other family has to suffer in the future?

Hon. George Smitherman: I note that even your staff are clapping on the sidelines.

I think that the honourable member and I have disagreement on one point. It's not that anyone questions that these are challenging circumstances and tragic events for families and communities. It's not that there aren't lessons that can be applied, but it is that we have the lessons at hand. The honourable member's approach is to take a few years, appoint some lawyers and spend a lot of resources on these considerations. Ours is much more clearly to put in the hands of Dr. Michael Baker, an accomplished leader in this field, the capacity to begin implementation of strategies that can have effect much more immediately.

I agree with the honourable member. This is a very challenging circumstance. It's a health care system circumstance that requires a response across the breadth of health care. We're going to lead that, and Dr. Michael Baker is going to be a very effective advocate on behalf of patient safety in the province of Ontario. Our strategy is about immediate benefit.

INFECTIOUS DISEASE CONTROL

Mrs. Elizabeth Witmer: Minister, you have had almost five years to lead and demonstrate that you are prepared to tackle issues such as C. difficile. You had the ability to restore public confidence, and you haven't done so. Right now, there's doubt and concern. You called upon us to do an inquiry into SARS when 44 people died. We now know that at least 270 people have died, and as I said yesterday, if you extrapolate, it could be 5,000.

I call upon you today to give peace of mind to the family members whose loved ones passed away. Make sure that no more deaths occur in the future which we know are preventable. Call an investigation in order that we have a plan to save lives in the future.

Hon. George Smitherman: I do want to say to the honourable member, firstly, I think that her continued insistence on this suggestion that we've only now, as a health care system, been aware of C. difficile is not the appropriate circumstance. The events in Quebec are a lesson for everyone. That's why I think it's important to acknowledge that those who are on the front lines of health care, who have the responsibility for running health care organizations, also bear responsibility for implementation.

Dr. Richard Schabas, a former chief medical officer of health, on CHCH, recently offered the following: "I'm not sure a public inquiry is necessarily the next logical step. They often make for good theatre, but they don't get us where we need to go, which is to address the problem in a vigorous and effective way."

I think, largely, we already know what the underlying problems are with C. difficile. We're going to work under the leadership of Dr. Baker to make sure that all hospitals are applying those things that we already know, to the immediate benefit of the patient.

Mrs. Joyce Savoline: What the coroner's report of over a year and a half ago proves is that this government has done nothing since that report came out to prevent further outbreaks and, certainly, to prevent further deaths.

In the Hamilton Spectator on Saturday, there was a description of what people go through when they die of C. difficile, and I'd like to read that. They are "mired in feces, suffering constant diarrhea, in pain and withered away except for grotesquely bloated stomachs."

That's what happened to Jack Elliott, who went into hospital for knee replacement surgery.

Jack's wife, Dorothy Elliott, and his daughter, Fern Merchant, are here today. Mr. Minister, will you commit to Jack Elliott's family today that you will call an immediate province-wide inquiry—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Minister?

Hon. George Smitherman: I do want to extend to this individual family and to any family in the province of Ontario that has had an involvement with the health care system that hasn't been as positive as it possibly can be, that have suffered this kind of a loss—we share in the burden, on behalf of those individuals, of doing better work.

The matter at hand is the difference in approach between that which is proposed by the opposition party—an inquiry which would take a very substantial amount of time—and our approach, based, as an example, on Dr. Richard Schabas, who said in his quote that we have the information that we need to do a better job for our patients related to C. difficile and other infectious diseases and patient safety risks in our hospitals. Our strategy is to implement reporting which is rigorous and mandatory and which will place a very, very strong emphasis on these challenges. I think that this is the approach, in the name of those who have suffered and struggled—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Final supplementary.

Mrs. Joyce Savoline: It would be my hope that the ministry has the depth to accomplish all those tasks at the same time and that we don't just have to do one after the other, so the investigation can go on to teach us about how to prevent these things into the future while we're working on preventing deaths in the current time.

A year and a half ago, the coroner's report said that we should be doing certain things. Not all those things have been implemented, and people like Jack Elliott continue to die unnecessarily. Jack's family deserves to know why. Minister, will you look Jack's family in the eye today and tell them that an immediate investigation will take place province-wide?

Hon. George Smitherman: Firstly, I'm not sure where the family is sitting, but as I had a chance to say a moment ago, our sympathy is with those in the circumstances.

You're not calling for an immediate inquiry. You're calling for a method of inquiry which is, by its nature, not immediate at all, and that is the central piece. You keep referring to the coroner's report, but the coroner's office themselves said they do not see the advantage of further inquiry because, like Dr. Schabas, they believe that we have the information that we need and that hospitals, including the hospital in Burlington, have the information that they need to implement strategies and policies which are more effective.

Our strategy is to work on relentless implementation, with mandatory reporting that will dramatically enhance the transparency associated with patient safety risks in our hospitals, under the leadership of Dr. Baker. This will produce the most important, beneficial and timely results for the patients in the province of Ontario. This is the way to act in the name of those who have succumbed to circumstances associated—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

MANUFACTURING JOBS

Mr. Howard Hampton: To the Deputy Premier: This morning, we learned that Canac Kitchens Ltd. is closing its Thornhill plant, which will result in the destruction of another 1,000 manufacturing jobs. This is added on to the over 100,000 manufacturing jobs already lost in the greater Toronto area over the last three years.

My question is this: With manufacturing job loss announcements coming on almost a daily basis, why does the McGuinty government continue to refuse to implement the policy tools that have been so effectively put in place in other jurisdictions to help sustain manufacturing jobs?

Hon. George Smitherman: To the Minister of Economic Development.

Hon. Sandra Pupatello: I do appreciate this question, because I know the people of Thornhill have had this company in their community for 41 years, and we're very sorry to see its demise with this announcement today.

What I can tell you is that we have had a number of fronts coming forward to help our manufacturing sector; this, in the face of a lineup of challenges that our manufacturing sector has never seen before. We all know that the dollar is stronger than ever, that oil is extremely expensive—all of these factors, and then on top of those, an American market that is not as strong as we would like.

With this comes a budget from our government that puts cash on the table for our manufacturers—$190 million in last year's budget initiative alone, some of which is retroactive to the year before—so that we can help with this kind of investment that companies need to make to be more productive, to face these challenges.

I look forward to the supplementary so that we can speak to some of our other initiatives.

Mr. Howard Hampton: The Canac jobs are leaving, going to the United States.

The fact of the matter is that jurisdictions like Manitoba and Saskatchewan, which equally have to face a low-value American dollar and equally do not have their own sources of oil, are in fact doing a much better job than the McGuinty government in Ontario in sustaining manufacturing jobs. Manitoba is adding manufacturing jobs as hundreds of thousands of them leave Ontario. What's the difference? Manitoba has implemented a refundable manufacturing investment tax credit. Quebec has implemented a refundable manufacturing investment tax credit.

Both jurisdictions see the wisdom of a reasonable industrial hydro rate, while the McGuinty government drives the industrial hydro rate through the roof.

I say again, when is the McGuinty government going to start implementing policies to sustain manufacturing jobs rather than killing—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Minister?

Hon. Sandra Pupatello: To follow this member's logic, you would think that those jobs in fact would be moving to Manitoba or Quebec. That is not the case. This company also has a factory in Statesville, in the US, and they are consolidating their operations to that site.

As we say, every time we hear news of this, we recognize the stress it causes families. That's why families expect our Ontario government to come forward with real solutions for companies to see to a brighter future. That means us stepping forward collectively and every member of this House being supportive of initiatives like our advance manufacturing strategy, like our Next Generation of Jobs Fund. Every time we've brought forward these initiatives, this particular member has voted against them.

Every time we've have a budget that has put cash in the hands of our manufacturers to see them through these struggling and challenging times, these members opposite have voted against these initiatives.

I say again, when it comes to manufacturing, we plant our flag—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Final supplementary.

Mr. Howard Hampton: I would say that under the McGuinty government, the flag is barely flying at half-mast and dropping every day.

The minister says these jobs are simply being consolidated. The fact of the matter is, these jobs are moving to a jurisdiction which has a manufacturing investment tax credit. These jobs are moving to a jurisdiction where a reasonable industrial hydro rate is guaranteed by the jurisdiction, something that you cannot find in Ontario any more. Jobs are moving to jurisdictions like Manitoba, which is now selling state-of-the-art, energy-efficient buses into states like California, New York, Illinois and elsewhere because they've had the wisdom to implement some of these policies.

These were good-paying jobs at Canac—$30 an hour. When is the McGuinty government going to stop holding photo ops and start—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Minister?

Hon. Sandra Pupatello: Everything this member has just tabled is patently wrong. He's just incorrect. When we talk about energy prices, we know that there's a challenge across North America, but our competing jurisdictions in manufacturing—those same jurisdictions—have higher prices than Ontario. What you have tabled today is just inaccurate, and you need to be called on the carpet for this. Just because you say it's so does not, in fact, make it so. You're just wrong.

What we are facing is a slowing of the US economy. That is absolutely going to affect a company like Canac Kitchens, which makes products for the housing market. The housing market in the US has slowed, and we know this. It affects lots of our businesses that are involved in housing products.

What we know is that we are committed to our manufacturers. We are stepping forward in innumerable ways to help make investments so that they will be more productive—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you, Minister. New question.

Mr. Howard Hampton: The only thing that is inaccurate around here is a McGuinty government that boasts about manufacturing jobs as they leave Ontario in droves virtually every day.

ABORIGINAL RIGHTS

Mr. Howard Hampton: To the Deputy Premier: I want to ask the McGuinty government about its latest flip-flop. In the Court of Appeal yesterday, two months after requesting that the Kitchenuhmaykoosib Inninuwug leadership be hit with penalties that hurt, suddenly, the McGuinty government reversed their position. The judges thought it was almost humorous. In fact, they commented on it. I want to ask this: Instead of forcing grandmothers and respected First Nation leaders to spend two months in jail, why didn't the McGuinty government use the tools at your disposal, use

section 35 of the Mining Act to declare that the disputed lands were not subject to mining exploration, and save everybody the embarrassment?

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Deputy Premier?

Hon. George Smitherman: To the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs.

Hon. Michael Bryant: I was given this on the front lawn, by the way. I want to thank the people who provided this.

Interjection.

Hon. Michael Bryant: It wasn't meant that way; it was meant rather to respect the wishes of somebody who provided it to me. Anyway, Speaker, I apologize.

I do want to say to the member that on this National Day of Action, it is one where, obviously, there's a particular focus on the federal government. Those have been the wishes of the national chief, Phil Fontaine, and the comments of a number of chiefs across Ontario. It's not to say that provincial governments don't take the opportunity to take stock of what has been done and what has to be done to make improvements. We have a long, long way to go. This government is very committed to making the changes in partnership with First Nations and Metis and Inuit people that will see improvement in the months and years to come.

Mr. Howard Hampton: As the judges pointed out, there's a big difference between the McGuinty government's position of asking for "hurt" two months ago and then, when forced to fess up yesterday, asking for "reconciliation."

The point is, the whole exercise—the jailing of great-grandmothers, the jailing of innocent First Nation leaders, having to go through the courts and spending millions of dollars in legal fees—could have been avoided by the McGuinty government simply using

section 35 of the Mining Act and saying, "These traditional First Nation lands will not be subject to mining exploration or mining development."

I think the McGuinty government owes an explanation to those innocent people who spent two months in jail, to that innocent great-grandmother who spent two months in jail. Why did the McGuinty government not use

section 35 and exempt the lands? Why did you use a process that sent innocent First Nation leaders to jail?

Hon. Michael Bryant: The member knows very well that what he's saying is contrary to all the facts that have been presented in this House and in the court, that the government of Ontario took the position from the beginning that incarceration was wrong and ought not to happen. The appeal was expedited because the province brought a motion to expedite the appeal. The province continued to take the position in court that the appeal should in fact take place and that the chief and council ought to be freed.

That's exactly what happened, and any suggestion otherwise by the leader of the third party—he knows that this is not the case and is inaccurate. But the point is that we know in the long term it's not just about sitting down with First Nation leaders and trying to negotiate agreements where there are conflicts; it's also about making changes to the Mining Act that will see those changes that we're all in agreement have to take place, and this government is moving forward in doing so.

Mr. Howard Hampton: The McGuinty government likes to throw around the word "inaccurate," so I want to quote from the judges. "The words 'hurt' and 'reconciliation' are total opposites," Mr. Justice MacPherson said. Further coverage: "The suggestion by government lawyer ... Wilson elicited much confusion on the part of the three-judge appeal court panel and some laughter among those in the packed courtroom." I think it's pretty clear who is being inaccurate.

The fact of the matter is, an innocent 58-year-old great-grandmother spent two months in jail. Innocent First Nation leaders, who were merely trying to protect their traditional lands, spent two months in jail. Why? Because the McGuinty government refused to use

section 35 of the Mining Act to simply say, "These lands will not be subject to mining exploration and mining development." The McGuinty government chose a path which resulted in the jailing of innocent First Nation leaders—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Minister?

Hon. Michael Bryant: The member is just making all that up, Mr. Speaker. He's making it up in the context of—

Interjections.

Hon. Michael Bryant: He knows very well how

section 35 works. He knows very well that the crown took the position at both levels of court that incarceration ought to take place. He wants to suggest that the crown did not take the position that it did, that it opposed incarceration. But the National Day of Action is not just about what happened yesterday—which was the good result, but that frankly never should have been before the Ontario Court of Appeal because it never should have happened in the first place; the member and I are in agreement on that—it is about those changes that need to be made.

First Nations' leadership has said that the primary reforms have to take place in Ottawa. That's why the leadership is there, and we agree with that leadership.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Stop the clock, please. I'd just ask the honourable member if he would withdraw the comment that he made in the opening of his answer, please.

Hon. Michael Bryant: I withdraw.

MANUFACTURING JOBS

Mr. Peter Shurman: My question is for the Minister of Economic Development and Trade and it deals with the latest example of how this government lacks leadership in manufacturing. After 41 years of operation, the Canac kitchen cabinet plant in Thornhill, as we have already heard this morning, is closing its doors and moving production to a facility in North Carolina. This closure represents a total loss of 1,000 manufacturing jobs in my riding of Thornhill, a riding that already has precious little in the way of manufacturing. These were good-paying jobs within a reasonable travel time for employees.

I doubt there is a member in this chamber who did not at one point have Canac cabinets in his or her kitchen. Those days are over.

Will the minister accurately tell this House when the people of Thornhill and the people of Ontario can expect the McGuinty government to wake up and take real action to save our manufacturing sector?

Hon. Sandra Pupatello: Once again, to the people of Thornhill, we do regret that Canac has taken this decision to consolidate its manufacturing base out of its own factory in the US. We know that these are challenging times for the manufacturing sector. We recognize that last year they also laid off 600 employees. I wish that this member would have been so forthcoming a year ago, when 600 had been laid off. Maybe that would have changed how he voted in this Legislature for initiatives that are here to help manufacturers in this province. Last year's budget was a perfect opportunity for this member opposite to show support for the manufacturing sector in this province.

We are working with our manufacturers. We recognize the challenges they face, and at least this is one government that will be behind them with more initiatives to come.

Mr. Peter Shurman: Okay, I guess it's my fault.

This is yet another symptom of this government's failure to manage Ontario's economy, a failure that resulted in the loss of 15,000 jobs last month alone. One thousand jobs in Thornhill were lost from Canac as of yesterday; 15,000 lost last month, 50,000 over the past year and 207,000 since 2004.

This government claims it is leading Ontario? The only place it's leading Ontarians is into the unemployment line. Will the minister finally admit that this government's only plan to stimulate this economy is to close its eyes, cover its ears, click its red shoes together and wish the problem away?

Hon. Sandra Pupatello: I will say this: that Ontario-wide we have seen over 450,000 net new jobs, and 450,000 net new jobs is something that every member in this House should be proud of. We recognize that within the manufacturing sector we are seeing challenges the likes of which we have not seen before.

That is why we continue to call on our federal counterparts to help us in this matter, so that when it comes to our manufacturers, the very sector that has fed the nation for decades now—and we, above all other sectors in manufacturing, see the strain of a high Canadian dollar, see the strain of a high price for a barrel of oil. That's when we need our partners to come to the table with us.

In the meantime, we expect every member of this House to vote in favour of initiatives that are here to help manufacturers. That member from Thornhill is included. We're going to watch your vote in the future on—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you, Minister. New question.

DRIVER LICENCES

Mr. Gilles Bisson: My question is to the Minister of Transportation. Minister, I raised in this House two days ago the issue of a person who had received a lifetime ban from driving as a result of a tragic accident where four people were killed. The individual went to jail and on coming out of jail went and applied for another driver's licence.

Your answer was, "Because there was a wrong date of birth, the person was wrongly issued a driver's licence." Could you tell me—and you can tell everybody else—why it is that MTO doesn't check basic things like a person's last and first name, a person's address, or any other information that might be inside the database to prevent something like this from happening?

Hon. James J. Bradley: What the member doesn't understand—that's because I understand you wouldn't have all the information—is that there were—

Interjection.

Hon. James J. Bradley: The member for Oxford is interjecting. He should worry about day trading at Agricorp, not about this question.

Back to the member himself: There were two records which were created. That was the problem, the ministry officials have informed me. As you know, the person does not have a licence at this time.

This is an aberration. They do very thorough checks. There are rare occasions when these things happen. We are taking specific action that I'll deal with in the member's supplementary. I'll deal with the specific actions the ministry has taken to try to avoid these kind of circumstances. Even though they may be rare, any instance—I think you will agree with me—where this can happen is not acceptable. That's why the ministry is working hard with other ministries to try to—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you, Minister. Supplementary.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: I don't think, Minister, that it's as rare as you make it out to be. You would know, as well as I do, that the CPIC database, which is the criminal database that's run by the RCMP, doesn't flag to the MTO database any criminal convictions. So somebody could be charged for an offence under the courts, it could go to the CPIC database, but there's no flag back to the MTO database.

The only reason we caught this person is because he was charged criminally and was listed in the CPIC database. That's how we found out. So I go back to you and I say again, when are you going to fix the provincial database to make sure that we have some kind of a flag between the CPIC database and there's a proper search done with the information that resides in the MTO database to stop this from happening again, because it will?

Hon. James J. Bradley: First of all, we do not control the CPIC database. We don't control that.

We have created a convictions records improvement committee with representatives from the Ministry of Transportation, Ministry of the Attorney General, the police and the courts. We've raised this issue with members of the committee and have expressed our concerns, just as the member has. We're also raising this issue on an ongoing basis.

System improvements have been put into place to ensure our records' accuracy. Once an electronic record is received, the MTO database does a search to add this information to the record. If a record is not found, a message notifies staff. Staff then perform a manual search in an attempt to eliminate any errors. If a record still isn't found, staff ask the court or respective police officer for more information. The ministry is considering the implementation of leading-edge security enhancements such as photo comparison technology which will help address fraud and identity issues.

MUNICIPALITIES

Mr. Jim Brownell: My question is to the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing. While our government believes in working with municipal governments to ensure that the people we both serve, the people of Ontario, have access to the best possible quality of life, not every government has felt the same way. The official opposition's great legacy when they were in government was to download services to Ontario's municipalities without providing the means to finance them.

We have moved to correct this imbalance through measures such as the uploading of 50% of land ambulance and the uploading of ODSP and ODB. This is important. In 2006, the Premier also promised a complete review of the way service delivery is funded. This is a long-overdue measure to right the wrongs imposed by the last Tory government.

But there is some concern among the communities in my riding of Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry that the Provincial-Municipal Fiscal and Service Delivery Review is somewhat overdue. Could the minister tell us how the review is progressing, and when we can expect to see the results?

Hon. Jim Watson: I want to thank the honourable member from Cornwall. I know he has a delegation from Cornwall with us again today, and I very much welcome them to the Legislative Assembly.

I'm very proud of the work that the Minister of Finance and I are doing, in partnership with the city of Toronto and AMO, on the Provincial-Municipal Fiscal and Service Delivery Review process. We're certainly on target to have this very important body of work completed in the next couple of months, well before the AMO AGM that will take place later this summer. We want to get it done on time, but we also want to get it done right.

Many of us who served in municipal government remember that a similar process was followed by the previous government. We remember Premier Harris telling AMO that the downloading and the realignment of services would be revenue-neutral, pinky-swear. We all remember when he said "pinky-swear." It was never revenue-neutral; that was proven and—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary.

Mr. Jim Brownell: I want to encourage the minister to get it right for the municipalities of Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry and all of Ontario. It is important for all levels of government to work together to benefit the people who truly matter: the constituents whom we all serve. Hopefully, this is not lost on our federal counterparts and they will begin to work with us to strengthen Canada's municipalities, potholes and all.

One item that was to be reviewed was the matter of compensation payments that municipalities, like Cornwall in my riding, receive annually in lieu of taxes for hydroelectric stations on their land. I was proud to work with the former Minister of Finance to ensure that this was included in the review. Again, could the minister tell us if the city of Cornwall can expect some good news in this regard when the results of the Provincial-Municipal Fiscal and Service Delivery Review are released?

Hon. Jim Watson: I want to commend the honourable member, plus the mayor of Cornwall, His Worship Mayor Kilger, with whom we have a good working relationship. We understand that this particular issue is very important to the city of Cornwall and to the member's community. It's one of the reasons why this issue is before the fiscal architecture table of the review. We have a number of working tables that are working on a number of issues, and this issue is before that particular table.

Obviously, because we're still in the midst of negotiations between AMO and the city of Toronto, we want to ensure that the issues remain confidential until we come forward with our consensus report. But I'm very optimistic that we have turned the page on the downloading and the negativity of the previous government, moving forward in a spirit of co-operation and consultation with the municipal sector, because we respect them as equal partners in the relationship to build a better and stronger Ontario.

CASINOS

Mr. Frank Klees: My question is for the Attorney General. Last Tuesday, CBC News reported that the RCMP in Ontario believe that criminals are using Ontario's casino system to launder the proceeds of crime. To prove how easy it is, CBC News members pumped $15,000 into slot machines, cashed out the vouchers, and left with legitimate casino cheques. No questions were asked, no follow-up, not even a friendly inquiry as to the suspicious conduct. Can the Attorney General advise the House if he has ordered an investigation into this illegal activity that's taking place in our casinos, and if not, can he explain why he's turning a blind eye to criminals using Ontario's casinos to do their business?

Hon. Christopher Bentley: As the member would know, investigations into alleged illegal activity are conducted by the police. We don't direct the police. This government doesn't direct the police. We've taken a very strong stand with respect to security in the province generally. With respect to security in casinos in particular, I wouldn't comment on any specific case. Again, we don't direct the police, and the proper direction for my colleague's question and for the supplementary I suspect will be the minister. I'll wait to hear the supplementary.

Mr. Frank Klees: This is not a recent development. The first test of the OLG's launder-your-money game was conducted on December 1, 2005, at Casino Rama. The OPP's David Crane, who now heads the enforcement arm of the Alcohol and Gaming Commission, said that this kind of activity should have triggered concerns in the casinos. In fact, he said it should have set off alarm bells.

I would have thought it would set off alarm bells with the government, with the Attorney General, with the minister responsible. Not only have there been no alarm bells, according to FINTRAC, suspicious reports from Ontario casinos have actually dropped from 330 in 2002 to 84 last year.

Margaret Beare, a York University criminologist, said that what's happening here is basically a culture of preferring profit over enforcement. My question is this: I'm not asking the Attorney General to direct an investigation. I'm asking—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Attorney General?

Hon. Christopher Bentley: That was the very beginning of your first question, of course. You wanted to know whether I had launched an investigation. Of course, the police investigate alleged criminal activity. If you have additional information, you should get right down to the OPP. They work very closely with the casino security and the RCMP to fight money laundering. They serve at AGCO's investigation enforcement bureau. There's information sharing across jurisdictions, federal FINTRAC database collects information for use by law enforcement and—

Interjections.

Hon. Christopher Bentley: Contrary to the heckles from the other side, there's a great deal of co-operation between enforcement units federally, provincially and across the border. So these are just some of the ideas. Casinos must comply with federal regulations to fight money laundering, including mandatory reporting, compliance officer, background checks; there's a lot going on. But again, if the member has additional information, get right to the OPP.

PUBLIC HEALTH

M me France Gélinas: Ma question est pour le ministre de la Santé et des Soins de longue durée.

Medical officers of health are crucial to the protection of public health in Ontario, so important that yesterday the minister finally announced that hospitals will be required to report C. difficile to their health units so that "medical officers of health have the information they need to monitor and respond to emergent outbreaks."

Why, then, six years after the Walkerton inquiry recommended that vacant medical officer of health positions be filled expeditiously with full-time candidates, are one third of Ontario medical officer of health positions vacant, part-time, temporary or acting?

Hon. George Smitherman: I do want to thank the honourable member for her question. Indeed, it's a good one. This proves to be a substantial challenge in the health care system in Ontario as there are unequal resources because some public health units are larger than others. We're working to enhance the capacity of schools of public health to create the kinds of candidates who would do well in the environment, which requires, of course, strong epidemiological backgrounds and good administrative capabilities, given the size of the health units.

We've more than doubled public health funding in the province of Ontario in the last four years, in response not just to the challenges associated with Walkerton but others that have been there. We're continuing to work with public health units in evaluating the review of work that's been done that suggests that perhaps consolidation of some of the public health units may be necessary over time.

M me France Gélinas: The Ontario Medical Association has said that the lack of full-time, fully qualified medical officers of health poses an enormous threat to the health of Ontarians and that a single dysfunctional health unit could incubate a nationwide epidemic.

The minister says that hospitals will report outbreaks so that the Minister of Health can monitor and respond. He says that he will look in the future to the consolidation of health units and building strength. I hope we will include health promotion within the list of qualities that the medical officer of health should have. But what kind of reassurance is this to Ontarians right now, when there is a third of health units that continue to lack the leadership of a medical officer of health? Where is the reassurance?

Hon. George Smitherman: Substantial reassurance should come from the fact that in each of these public health units there is an acting chief medical officer of health who has a good deal of capacity to be able to address the circumstances that the honourable member speaks to.

We're working hard to create more of the kind of candidates who would do well in these leadership roles. We've created bursary programs that allow acting medical officers of health to do the necessary transitioning so that they can become permanent in those functions. We've announced, through our health human resources strategy, HealthForceOntario, the capacity to create more opportunity for foreign-trained professionals to transition into these roles and have allocated funding for up to five physicians who wish to pursue specialty training in community medicine or an equivalent, which is a master's in public health.

The obvious is there. There are vacancies, of course. They're filled by acting chief medical officers of health, and work is being done to increase the number of people who would be suitable candidates for these roles on a permanent basis. These steps, alongside—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you, Minister. New question.

AGRICULTURE INDUSTRY

Mrs. Maria Van Bommel: My question is for the Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs. As you know, the supply-managed sector of our agriculture industry has proven itself to be an effective way of ensuring that farmers earn a stable and profitable income. For years, FarmGate 5 has proven its ability to provide the high-quality products Ontario consumers demand at a fair return to farmers.

I've been following the World Trade Organization agricultural negotiations in Geneva very closely and with great concern in recent months. Dairy, egg and poultry farmers in my riding of Lambton—Kent—Middlesex are truly worried by reports that Canada's supply-managed sectors are at risk because the latest negotiating text presented at the WTO does not provide the necessary flexibility to accommodate all our supply-managed sectors. Could the minister please bring this House up to date on what's happening at the WTO agriculture negotiations?

Hon. Leona Dombrowsky: I am happy to have the opportunity to share with all members of the House. You may recall, in December 2005, that all parties in this Legislature did support a motion that the province of Ontario would remain very strong in supporting supply management. As a result of that we have, I think, staked out some pretty clear ground with respect to our position nationally as well as internationally.

We're very pleased with the progress in some of the sectors, particularly as it relates to aggressive tariff reduction formulas, as well as the reduction and elimination of export subsidies. We are, however, concerned with the most recent text of modalities that have come from the WTO that would impact sensitive products.

Again, because we've had the resolution in this Legislature, we can say that the province of Ontario is stalwart in our commitment—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary.

Mrs. Maria Van Bommel: It's important for our government to hold the federal government to account on this important issue. Canada and the province of Ontario have a strong interest in moving fairer trade policies forward for agriculture. Farmers in my riding tell me that we want a level playing field, and this means assurances that there will be meaningful cuts to US and European Union subsidies.

It does concern me, however, that with the stroke of a pen the federal government could negotiate supply management away. At a recent MP-MPP meeting in Lambton County, local representatives of the supply-management sector repeated the call for both the provincial and federal governments to continue defending the interests of those farmers dependent on supply management. They told me that there can be no federal plan B.

Could the minister please tell this House today what our government is doing to protect the interests of the supply-management sector?

Hon. Leona Dombrowsky: Obviously, again, the member is a very strong advocate for her constituents and for supply management. We thank you for that.

But with respect to the issue that has been raised, in February, the two ministers of the province of Ontario and the province of Quebec did issue a joint release to say that we urge the federal government to make this very clear: Supply management was to remain intact as we know it today.

Just last week again, after the most recent text had been released, the minister from Quebec, Laurent Lessard, and I issued another joint release making the point to the federal government that we need to remain strong in terms of protecting supply management. We have followed that up with a letter to the federal Minister of Agriculture on this very issue. Tonight, in the city of Toronto, agriculture ministers from across Canada will be meeting in this city—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

Ms. Sylvia Jones: My question is for the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care. Last week, I met with a family in my riding that I'm trying to help, who are caring for their three children, all of them diagnosed with a rare genetic chromosome imbalance that leaves them with high medical needs. All three require care, with the youngest in need of constant monitoring and care throughout the night.

Before the boundary changes, CCAC provided overnight respite care, allowing their parents to attain much-needed sleep. While the case managers agree with the need for overnight nursing care, in 2008 they have had to go without 80 hours per month. While the CCAC has done the assessment and agrees that the service is needed, Minister, how can you ensure that this family gets the care they actually need?

Hon. George Smitherman: I do want to thank the honourable member for her advocacy on the part of this family. It mirrors, at least somewhat, a few other circumstances between me and members and my staff who have been working to try and make sure that they get the care they require. Obviously this family needs to be acknowledged for the work it's doing in support of three young children with underlying medical complications.

I don't know the ins and the outs of the circumstance, but I will commit to the honourable member to work alongside her, with community care access centres and staff from the ministry, to try and find a foundation of resources which can allow this family to support the children in their family. If the honourable member would give us a chance to learn just a bit more about the circumstances, we'll see what we might able to come up with on their behalf.

Ms. Sylvia Jones: I appreciate your assurance, and I do have more details here which I will provide to you.

This family has met with representatives from the CCAC a number of times, and they've actually come up with some very proactive solutions. To date, they have been given no flexibility to do that. As I said, for 80 hours every month since January they've gone without care.

Interjection.

Ms. Sylvia Jones: Minister, will you assist my constituents so that they can receive the overnight care they need to allow them to continue caring for their children at home, and before they go into crisis?

Hon. George Smitherman: I heard that the former Minister of Health from Simcoe—Grey wanted to take credit for the CCACs. It was important to remind him that for a few years there, they actually flatlined their budget. In contrast, we've been able to give, even just last year alone, $100 million in additional resources to community care access centres.

Interjection.

Hon. George Smitherman: Now he's heckling about their further plans to cut another $3 billion from health care.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): I ask the member from Simcoe—Grey to withdraw the comment that he just made.

Mr. Jim Wilson: I withdraw, Mr. Speaker.

Hon. George Smitherman: Mr. Speaker, we shouldn't allow our side comments to confuse—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): You should be speaking through the Chair.

Hon. George Smitherman: Yes, that's why I said, "Mr. Speaker."

To the honourable member: I'll work with you to do what we can on behalf of this family. They need our support. I think it's possible to get it, and together, I'm very certain we'll be able to do so.

PROPERTY TAXATION

Mr. Michael Prue: My question is to the Minister of Finance. My office has been working with Ms. Julia Sangster, a senior who lives in a granny flat on her daughter's property in the city of Kawartha Lakes. We have also had months and months of communications with Carl Eisenberg of MPAC, and the reason is because Ms. Sangster's daughter's property has been assessed $35,000 higher due to the granny flat which is placed upon the land. MPAC says it is bound by regulations signed by you that state that structures placed on the land are assessable.

However, the city of Kawartha Lakes says that the granny flat must be removed upon the sale of the property and it is not a permanent structure. Can the minister tell this House why a temporary structure is assessable even though it has absolutely no resale value?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: I thank the member for the question. I'm not familiar with the circumstances of this particular situation. My hope would be that we could work together to have a look at this. If you've corresponded with me already, I apologize. I'm not familiar with the case, but I'd be happy to look into it further with you.

Mr. Michael Prue: I thank the minister for that statement.

Julia Sangster has been living through this for a long time. There has been correspondence going back and forth between her, my office, MPAC and, I believe, your office as well. She is not alone. She is like thousands of other seniors who live on their old age pension independently and at no cost to the public. She and many others in this situation are being penalized by the assessment system.

I am thankful for what you had to say today, but this is a lacuna in the law that cries out for remedy. Will you promise to look into this to change the regulation in

section 3 of the Assessment Act, not only for Ms. Sangster but for all of the other seniors across this province who live in granny flats on properties owned by their children?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: I thank the member for the question. I'll be happy to review it with him, but I'd like to review a few other things with the member.

Last month we brought in reverse onus on MPAC, something you and seniors called for for ages. Do you know what that member did? He voted against it. This government brought in a senior property tax credit in its last budget, and do you know what that member and his party did? They voted against it. We enhanced the senior property tax credit on three occasions over three years, and do you know what that member and his party did? They voted against it.

It's difficult to come to terms with a party that on the one hand says it advocates for seniors, and votes against every single positive measure for seniors—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION

Mr. Jeff Leal: My question today is for the Minister of Transportation. Minister, you know that public transit is very important to the people of Peterborough. Ridership on our local transit system has increased steadily since our government made increasing public transit a top priority. I also know that certain studies clearly show that many people are still driving their cars to get to their destinations.

In my region, transit and transportation are linked together with positive economic development. We need an edge so we can stay competitive and have a future filled with prosperity. Minister, what are you doing to provide the best transit alternatives to the good people of Peterborough?

Hon. James J. Bradley: As the member would know, the government made a serious commitment when we decided to invest two cents of the gas tax into public transit for municipalities—$315 million in all. Since 2004, Peterborough has received almost $5 million in gas tax funding. Additionally, we recently invested more than $930,000 in capital infrastructure in Peterborough Transit. We believe these investments will propel transit systems forward, allowing them to make upgrades and provide tangible service improvements to their riders.

I understand that Peterborough has used part of it to upgrade its bus fleet, which will soon include 15 fully accessible transit buses. Added to that, we recently informed Peterborough council of an additional $762,000 for the Ontario bus replacement program. We've been working with the member on a regular basis. He's a tireless advocate for transportation—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary.

Mr. Jeff Leal: I'd like to once again address the Minister of Transportation. Minister, I agree that this government has made transit a top priority. It's actually sad that the previous government cancelled transit funding altogether for two years. That lack of investment left us with a lot of catching up to do. I've received a lot of positive feedback from my constituents and from local municipal leaders and transit riders about our great investments, but we really need to look from a regional perspective as well. Minister, can you update us on the multi-million dollar question of the progress on getting GO Transit train service to Peterborough—another transit issue?

Hon. James J. Bradley: I would first of all agree with the member that when the Conservatives got out of the funding of public transit completely, that was a major mistake that we're trying to rectify. Our government has invested over $10 million in Peterborough since 2003. It's a fundamental shift from the era previous to that. We recognize that to address gridlock, to address climate change in a meaningful way, you have to invest in transit options.

I understand that GO Transit is currently exploring ways to provide bus service from the Oshawa train station to Peterborough. GO Transit is also committed to extending their rail service from Oshawa to Bowmanville. This extension will serve to improve the riders' experience by facilitating closer bus-train meeting locations. The ability to extend rail service to Peterborough presents some different challenges, and as you know there are significant infrastructure upgrades that will be required. This has been given to Metrolinx to lead a joint rail study.

PESTICIDES

Mrs. Julia Munro: My question is for the Minister of the Environment. Constituents of mine who work in the structural pesticide industry are very concerned that they will be caught up in your cosmetic pesticide bill. In your haste to bring this bill forward, you have overlooked structural pest control. This industry uses pesticides as a last resort, keeping our homes, hospitals, schools, restaurants and other buildings free of harmful insects. To protect our health and quality of life, they often have to work on the outside of these buildings. This is not cosmetic use. Will you amend the list of exempted uses in Bill 64 to include uses related to structures?

Hon. John Gerretsen: I'm very pleased to answer this member's questions and talk about the positive nature of our cosmetic-use-of-pesticides bill that we have brought in this House right now. As the member well knows, we're into second reading right now. Obviously, the bill will go to committee at some point in time. We've also at the same time posted about 80 different ingredients and 300 different products that we're contemplating being part of the regulatory framework that will actually put the act into place.

We realize that there may be certain exceptions, not with respect to lawns or backyards and playgrounds etc., but certainly with respect to the use indoors, because some of these products in effect can be utilized indoors as well to deal with issues like pest control. The bill will make provisions for it, as the member well knows. We're looking forward to this member's positive contribution with respect to this bill and we look forward to all members of this House—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you, Minister. Supplementary?

Mrs. Julia Munro: Minister, structural pest control often has to fight some of the insects from the outside of buildings, and that includes such insects as yellow jackets, paper wasps, hornets, ants, spiders, termites, ticks, fleas and earwigs. If this industry cannot do its work outside, it cannot destroy these threats to health. Will you commit to meeting with representatives of the structural pesticide industry to ensure that they are exempted, ideally by the bill, or at least through its regulations?

Hon. John Gerretsen: We already have met with literally dozens of groups of individuals and industry representatives on all sides of this issue. Obviously we want to hear from the group that she's talking about as well, and we will certainly make arrangements to meet with them.

PETITIONS

LORD'S PRAYER

Mr. Jim Wilson: I want to thank the congregation of St. Paul's Roman Catholic Church and Father Tad, in Alliston, the church that I went to as I was growing up, for sending this petition to me.

"Whereas Premier Dalton McGuinty has called on the Ontario Legislature to consider removing the Lord's Prayer from its daily proceedings; and

"Whereas the Lord's Prayer has been an integral part of our parliamentary heritage that was first established in 1793 under Lieutenant Governor John Graves Simcoe; and

"Whereas the Lord's Prayer is today a significant part of the religious heritage of millions of Ontarians of culturally diverse backgrounds;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to continue its long-standing practice of using the Lord's Prayer as part of its daily proceedings."

I agree with this petition and I've signed it.

FIREARMS CONTROL

Mr. Mike Colle: I've got a petition trying to outlaw firearms in vehicles.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas innocent people are being victimized by the growing number of unlawful firearms in our communities; and ....

"Whereas a growing number of unlawful firearms are transported, smuggled and found in motor vehicles; and

"Whereas impounding motor vehicles and suspending driver's licences of persons possessing unlawful firearms in motor vehicles would aid the police in their efforts to make our streets safer;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to pass Bill 56, the Unlawful Firearms in Vehicles Act, 2008, into law, so that we can reduce the number of crimes involving firearms in our communities and take the guns off of our streets."

I support this petition and I sign it.

ALMA COLLEGE

Mrs. Julia Munro: I beg the indulgence of the House for a moment. I am presenting a petition signed by thousands of people who wanted to request, through the petition process, the saving of Alma College. I think that in respect to all of those people who signed these petitions, even though, sadly, we don't have that opportunity, it is out of respect to their concerns that today I read this petition.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas historic Alma College, designed in the High Victorian Gothic style, chartered by

an act of Ontario passed March 2, 1877, opened in October 1881, located in the city of St. Thomas, county of Elgin, province of Ontario, has fallen into a dire state of disrepair; and

"Whereas Alma College continues to be threatened with demolition by its current owners despite the efforts of many concerned citizens, alumni and various officials; and

"Whereas an historical plaque commemorating Alma College was unveiled at the college on Thursday, October 28, 1976, by the Ontario Heritage Trust, an agency within the Ministry of Culture and Recreation; and

"Whereas the city of St. Thomas designated Alma College under

part IV of the Ontario Heritage Act (bylaw 167-94), in 1994; and

"Whereas recent amendments (2005) to the Ontario Heritage Act allow the Minister of Culture to designate property as being provincially significant;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"The Minister of Culture immediately designate Alma College as a building of provincial significance and, in the event of a demolition order being issued for Alma, to immediately intervene by issue of a stop order, and to further identify provincial partnerships and possible funding to protect the existing buildings from further deterioration while financial resources are generated to restore the property to its former glory."

I do this on behalf of the many thousands of Ontarians whose wish is never to become true.

HOSPITAL FUNDING

Mr. Jeff Leal: I have a petition today from Miss Susan Bishop, who lives at 2091 Hurontario St. in beautiful Mississauga.

"Whereas wait times for access to surgical procedures in the western GTA area served by the Mississauga Halton LHIN are growing despite the vigorous capital project activity at the hospitals within the Mississauga Halton LHIN boundaries; and

"Whereas 'day surgery' procedures could be performed in an off-site facility, thus greatly increasing the ability of surgeons to perform more procedures, alleviating wait times for patients, and freeing up operating theatre space in hospitals for more complex procedures that may require post-operative intensive care unit support and a longer length of stay in hospital;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care allocate funds in its 2008-09 capital budget to begin planning and construction of an ambulatory surgery centre located in western Mississauga to serve the Mississauga-Halton area and enable greater access to 'day surgery' procedures that comprise about four fifths of all surgical procedures performed."

I agree with this petition and I will affix my signature to it.

LORD'S PRAYER

Mr. Ted Chudleigh: I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

"Whereas the current Liberal government is proposing to eliminate the Lord's Prayer from its place at the beginning of daily proceedings in the Legislature; and

"Whereas the recitation of the Lord's Prayer has opened the Legislature every day since the 19th century; and

"Whereas the Lord's Prayer's message of forgiveness and the avoidance of evil is universal to the human condition; it is a valuable guide and lesson for a chamber that is too often an arena of conflict; and

"Whereas recognizing the diversity of the people of Ontario should be an inclusive process, not one which excludes traditions such as the Lord's Prayer;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, ask the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to preserve the daily recitation of the Lord's Prayer by the Speaker in the Legislature."

I agree with it and affix my name to the petition.

FIREARMS CONTROL

Mr. Pat Hoy: "To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas innocent people are being victimized by the growing number of unlawful firearms in our communities; and

"Whereas police officers, military personnel and lawfully licensed persons are the only people allowed to possess firearms; and

"Whereas a growing number of unlawful firearms are transported, smuggled and found in motor vehicles; and

"Whereas impounding motor vehicles and suspending driver's licences of persons possessing unlawful firearms in motor vehicles would aid the police in their efforts to make our streets safer;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to pass Bill 56, entitled the Unlawful Firearms in Vehicles Act, 2008, into law, so that we can reduce the number of crimes involving firearms in our communities."

HOSPITAL FUNDING

Mr. Bob Delaney: I have another petition to the Ontario Legislative Assembly from constituents asking for progress on the western Mississauga ambulatory surgery centre, for which I'd like to thank the office of Dr. Tom Short. It reads as follows:

"Whereas wait times for access to surgical procedures in the western GTA area served by the Mississauga Halton LHIN are growing despite the vigorous capital project activity at the hospitals within the Mississauga Halton LHIN boundaries; and

"Whereas 'day surgery' procedures could be performed in an off-site facility, thus greatly increasing the ability of surgeons to perform more procedures, alleviating wait times for patients, and freeing up operating theatre space in hospitals for more complex procedures that may require post-operative intensive care unit support and a longer length of stay in hospital;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care allocate funds in its 2008-09 capital budget to begin planning and construction of an ambulatory surgery centre located in western Mississauga to serve the Mississauga-Halton area and enable greater access to 'day surgery' procedures that comprise about four fifths of all surgical procedures performed."

I'm pleased to sign and support this petition and to ask page Damian to carry it for me.

HOSPITAL FUNDING

Mr. Joe Dickson: "To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the Central East Local Health Integration Network (CE-LHIN) board of directors has approved the Rouge Valley Health System's deficit elimination plan....

"Whereas, despite the significant expansion of the Ajax-Pickering hospital, the largest in its 53-year history, a project that could reach $100 million, of which 90% is funded by the Ontario government, this plan now calls for the ill-advised transfer of 20 mental health unit beds from Ajax-Pickering hospital to the Centenary health centre in Scarborough; and

"Whereas one of the factors for the successful treatment of patients in the mental health unit is support from family and friends, and the distance to Centenary health centre would negatively impact on the quality care for residents of Ajax and Pickering; and

"Whereas it is also imperative for Rouge Valley Health System to balance its budget, eliminate its deficit and debt and realize the benefits of additional Ontario government funding;

"We, the undersigned, therefore petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the Rouge Valley Health System continue to provide the current level of service to our Ajax-Pickering hospital, which now serves the fastest-growing communities of west Durham; and

"That the Ajax-Pickering hospital retain the badly needed 20-bed mental health unit."

I'll affix my signature to this and pass it to Natalie.

ANTI-SMOKING LEGISLATION

Mr. Jeff Leal: This petition arrived just recently.

"To the Legislative