April 26,

GOVERNMENT SERVICES COMMITTEE

Pursuant to Standing Order 68, Kevin Parsons, MHA for Cape St. Francis,

replaces for John Dinn, MHA for Kilbride.

The Committee met at 6:15 p.m. in the Assembly Chamber.

MR. FORSEY: Good evening, everyone. Welcome.

Our first order of business, we have a Vice-Chair from last year but we have

to elect a Chair, so we will call for nominations for a Chair. Elizabeth, is

that right?

CLERK (Ms Murphy): Yes.

MR. FORSEY: Mr. Butler does this.

Mr. Butler.

MR. BUTLER: We have to elect a Vice-Chair, so the floor is open. Do we

have any nominations for I am sorry - a Chairperson?

MR. BUCKINGHAM: I nominate Clayton Forsey.

MR. BUTLER: Mr. Buckingham nominates Mr. Forsey.

Do we have a seconder for that motion?

We have three seconders. I am going to take the first hand I saw go up, which

was Mr. Parsons.

There is a motion that Mr. Forsey would be our Chairperson for this

Committee.

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. BUTLER: All those against, nay'.

The motion is carried.

CHAIR (Forsey): Thank you, Roland.

The next order of business is to welcome everyone, the minister and his

department, and our representatives from each party. What we will do now, I

guess, starting down here on the end, we will have each person over here

introduce themselves, please.

MR. MORGAN: Ivan Morgan, Researcher with the NDP Caucus.

MS MICHAEL: Lorraine Michael, the Member for the District of Signal

Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS ELLIOTT-TEMPLETON: Vanessa Elliott-Templeton, Researcher, Opposition

Office.

MR. BUTLER: Roland Butler, District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUCKINGHAM: Ed Buckingham, St. John's East.

MR. POLLARD: Kevin Pollard, MHA, Baie Verte-Springdale.

MR. LODER: Terry Loder, Bay of Islands.

MR. KEVIN PARSONS: Kevin Parsons, Cape St. Francis.

CHAIR: Clayton Forsey, MHA for the District of Exploits, and Chair.

That is our Committee.

Normally in the procedures there is usually fifteen minutes for the minister

to make his opening remarks and introduce his staff. For questions you will get

fifteen minutes to respond, if you need fifteen minutes, and probably you can go

a little bit longer, depending.

I would like to thank the minister and his department officials for coming

here this evening and enlightening us on his department. Minister, do you want

to introduce yourself and your

MR. O'BRIEN: Certainly, Mr. Chair, it is a pleasure, as it is every year,

to appear before the Government Services Committee in regard to going through

our Estimates and answering any questions that they may have in regard to the

everyday operation of my department.

Before I actually make some remarks in regard to my department, I would like

to have each one of my staff, starting at my immediate left, so everybody knows

who everybody is in the room.

MR. NORMAN: David Norman, Deputy Minister.

MR. CAHILL: Larry Cahill, GPA.

MS DUNPHY: Kim Dunphy, Assistant Deputy Minister, Occupational Health and

Safety Branch.

MR. MORRIS: Winston Morris, Assistant Deputy Minister, Consumer and

Commercial Affairs.

MS KELLAND: Donna Kelland, Assistant Deputy Minister for Government

Services Branch.

MS COLEMAN-SADD: Vanessa Coleman-Sadd, Communications Director.

MS NORMAN: Paula Norman, Executive Assistant.

MR. JONES: Scott Jones, Director of Financial Operations.

MR. O'BRIEN: All right, I think everybody in the room is familiar with my

department. It is purely a service-driven department. It also regulates and

enforces some of the legislation that comes under my department, which is about

150-odd pieces of legislation that is contained within the Department of

Government Services, governing a lot of aspects of the people's lives in

Newfoundland and Labrador and also in regard to the business world.

We are purely driven by serving the people of Newfoundland and Labrador on a

daily basis. We like to say at some time we touch their lives from birth to

death in some aspects. Some we touch more than once; sometimes we only touch

them twice. Most people we touch more than that number during their lifetime.

We have an operating budget within the Department of Government Services of

$41,969,000. As well contained in that number, is about another $2.2 million for

the normal operations of the Government Purchasing Agency.

Under the department we have a number of divisions which service the people

of Newfoundland and Labrador, one being the Motor Registration Division, which

governs personal licences, motor vehicle registrations and the like. Then we

move into Vital Statistics, where we have your foundation documents, birth

certificates and everything else up to death certificates.

We have the Human Resource Management sector which we provide human resource

support, not only to ourselves but we have a total of eight departments across

government.

We also have a Consumer Affairs Division which we mediate, I guess, consumer

complaints and landlord-tenant type complaints and also the governance of

lotteries. We have the Financial Services Division contained within that

division. We regulate insurance. We also regulate securities and other banking

type processes. We also have pension regulations contained in that division as

well.

Then we have the commercial registration of deeds and companies and personal

registrations. Also, the Queen's Printer which provides printing services to all

of the departments of government. Then, last but not least, we have the

Occupational Health and Safety Division which is very, very important as we grow

the economy in Newfoundland and Labrador. Then, as well, I am responsible for

the Government Purchasing Agency which really governs procurement across all

government department and also government-funded bodies.

We endeavour to provide the best service we possibly can to the people of

Newfoundland and Labrador; we try to make it as pleasant an experience as

possible, and we try to streamline it. We have made various changes within the

Department of Government Services on an operational level and also in regard to

location level. We have just recently opened a new Commercial Registration

Division on Elizabeth, which has been a long time coming. It was well needed,

and I will say here up front that it was not because of any complaints or any

issues in regard to where they were located; it is just that we could not

provide the service and the level of service that we wanted to provide to the

industry and to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, so we relocated to

Elizabeth and now we have a very modern operation and building. Certainly, we do

provide a much more streamlined service to anyone who needs that type of

service.

We have also made some changes this year, the past year, in the Clarenville

area. We have consolidated our Government Services with Motor Registration there

in a central location in the centre of town. They were located in a kind of

nondescript place in Clarenville, not conducive to traffic loads and that kind

of thing, so we relocated them and also it gives them a one window of business

when they come to take any service that they would need in that particular area.

We have also relocated Marystown. We have had a new office there, which we

opened only about a week ago, and we consolidated service there from Grand Bank

into Marystown. We have increased our staff there by one, which gives us a

better overall service on a daily basis, so we have no downtime now in that area

and we provide a better service.

We are in the process of consolidating our services, Motor Registration and

Government Services, in Grand Falls-Windsor. We should be opening within the

next short period of time, a month or so or whatever, in there, which will be

better for the people of that region as well. We are also in the process of

relocating in Corner Brook. That renovation is ongoing, but we should open our

doors to the public in that location hopefully within the next number of months,

and again provide a better service.

We have also, in this budget, made the teleservice centre permanent, as a

permanent program. It has been hailed by the people of Newfoundland and Labrador

as an absolutely fabulous service, and has been mentioned on the Open Lines and

talk shows and that kind of stuff as being an excellent service. The person now

phoning will get a live person, they can explore all the issues surrounding the

service that they are trying to obtain from Motor Registration, and our people

help them make sure that they have all the forms and whatever else they need to

complete the transaction in their hands, in person, before they come to avail of

that service anywhere in Newfoundland and Labrador. These positions have also

been made permanent, so we are looking forward to that. I think there are seven

positions that were made permanent in this budget.

We look forward to actually providing a better service. I will say that we

also endeavour at all times to provide the best service that we possibly can to

the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, but also we try to maximize our

dollars, because we are a revenue generator for government as well in about $120

million worth into the Provincial Treasury. We take that and really administer

it professionally, and we want to get the best bang for our dollar and make sure

that the people of Newfoundland and Labrador are well served and we do not waste

the taxpayers' dollars.

With that, Mr. Chair, I think that gives an overview of my department and

what we do on a daily basis. Now I will leave it up to the Committee itself if

they have any questions.

CHAIR: Okay.

Thank you, Minister.

Before we get into the questions, I will now call for the subhead.

CLERK: 1.1.01.

CHAIR: 1.1.01.

Shall 1.1.01 carry?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, nay'.

On motion, subhead 1.1.01 carried.

CHAIR: It would be a good idea - it is important, when you are responding

or asking questions, to maybe introduce yourself each time, especially more so

maybe when you are responding to questions, because the mikes are on and we will

know who is asking or who is responding to the questions.

If the minister and his staff are ready, we will ask

MR. BUTLER: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Minister, I want to welcome you and your staff here this evening. I do have a

few questions and some of them are probably follow-ups from last year. You noted

some of them a little while ago.

I remember last year, Minister, we were told the department had engaged in

discussions regarding replacement of the Motor Registration computer system. I

think it had to do mainly with the drivers without insurance. At that time I

know you stated you were working with the Insurance Bureau of Canada, working

with the police forces and enforcement officers. Some items had taken place

already on the commercial side and you were evaluating from a cost-effective

point. I was wondering, could you provide an update on that since May of 2009?

MR. O'BRIEN: It is certainly an ongoing project. It is a very, very

costly project. Our system is outdated, and I do not mind saying that. It is

workable, but some of the applications that we would want to provide, not only

to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador but also to our policing forces

across the Island as well, we cannot under the current program, the current

software package that we have.

We have been consulting with other jurisdictions, certainly Nova Scotia being

the primary, and we are moving forward in trying to really knock down the cost

to make sure that we do it right the first time, because you are not talking

just pennies; we are talking about millions of dollars here, anywhere between

maybe $14 million to probably an $18 million to $20 million investment.

As the Minister Responsible for Government Services and Motor Registration, I

feel that we have to take our time, make sure that we do it right, and make sure

that we do not have any glitches in regard to the system that we eventually

purchase. Really, it is an ongoing project. We hope to bring it forward within

the next budget or so to get some funding, move it along and make sure that we

get what we need in place, in place.

MR. BUTLER: I know the ADM last year mentioned that discussions had

already started with OCIO, and I guess that is a part of the transaction you are

dealing with now.

MR. O'BRIEN: That is certainly a part of it as well. They are well aware

of the need in the OCIO. They certainly support our need. They recognize our

need and they rank our need as one of a high priority. Again, we have so many

dollars to spend across all departments within government. So, we are there and

we will continue to consult and we will continue to research until we make sure

that we have the best system we can possibly buy for the proper dollars that we

are willing to pay.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you.

Like you said, you knew this one was coming: winter tires. My question is,

Minister, not with regard to if you are going to enforce mandatory winter tires;

that has come up many times. I am just wondering - because I know you said you

still had an open mind on it - have you obtained all the information that you

can get and be able to say that all-season tires are just as good as winter

tires? I know last winter you said: I advise everyone to put their snow tires on

now with the studs in them when we have a snowstorm.

Having said that, I know there was a study done and I was wondering, has that

been released or can you get a copy of that study with regard to how the

feelings are on the issue here in the Province? I think that is what the study

was.

MR. O'BRIEN: Certainly, we can release any information that we have. Yes,

I agree with the hon. member that I did have an open mind. I do not have as much

of an open mind as I used to have, I will be honest with you.

When I studied and reviewed the data that was provided to me, the survey that

we had done found that, I think, if I remember right, 80-odd per cent of the

travelling public in Newfoundland and Labrador actually install winter tires

now. I have heard many, many times before I was elected in 2003 that government

regulates people to death. You do not have to regulate them to death; you can

actually communicate and educate the public on the need for winter tires.

I know that in some cases some of the all-season tires are rated just as good

as winter tires; but, as I said in the House of Assembly here on my feet, and

also I said in regard to any immediate coverage, I have three vehicles, and

three vehicles with four winter tires installed every year. So, I encourage the

public to do the same, but when I regulate, I guess, or consider regulating

within the department, I have to consider the effect that regulation will have.

If that is only going to change 1 per cent or 0.01 per cent, whatever it may be,

well I very well may be able to do that in regard to communicating it to the

public in every avenue that I can.

So, I will take that view at this particular time. The information coming out

of Quebec is very, very slow. I do not think, in my mind - and this is my own

opinion and my own opinion only; it is not based on any given study or data or

whatever - that they did not have the desired effect. It did not show any

changes in regard to some of the accidents and that kind of stuff that they

thought it would have.

Anyway, that is forthcoming. They have not provided it, not to my knowledge.

As of yet they have not provided it, so we can only base it on our own survey

that there are 80-odd per cent of the travelling public out there right now who

install winter tires on their own.

It comes to the point: Would we be really over regulating? I think at that

point in time we would be. I intend to communicate as much as possible the need,

and not only the need but if you are out there travelling, even though there is

a question with regard to how safe you would be, I also have to communicate to

them that just because they have winter tires on does not mean they are safe.

MR. BUTLER: My next question, Minister, has to do with an update on the

AG's report. It had to do with the question he asked, I think: Has the

department reviewed policies covering this area with the Department of Health

and Community Services to ensure inspectors do not allow food premises to remain

open where policy states they should be closed?

I know the department did come back and say they were reviewing the closure

policy and guidelines. I was just wondering, that recommendation now, has that

been taken care of or is that still under review to some degree?

MR. O'BRIEN: We have made certain changes in the reporting process within

the Department of Government Services based on the Auditor General's comments.

At this hearing here in regard to where we find ourselves tonight, I also have

to say that in some ways I agree and I welcome the thoughts of the Auditor

General.

He and his department - and it is a he at this point in time; if it were a

she I would be saying she - the department actually takes an overall view. They

do not take things into account that we take into account, that the actual

violation might be a high-risk violation but the high-risk violation was

addressed and corrected within an hour or two, so why close down a place of

business with a regulation for a day, or whatever might be involved there, when

you could certainly address the issue within the hour or two and then have the

premises stay open?

You have to support business. You have to have flexibility in regard to your

inspection and enforcement processes and keep these kinds of things in mind,

taking into account as well the safety of the people of Newfoundland and

Labrador, which is the utmost in our minds.

So, we have professional people out there in the field who make decisions on

a daily basis. I think they make good decisions, because we do not hear of any

kind of fatalities related to environmental issues or whatnot, because the

people of Newfoundland and Labrador are provided some of the best, in many

areas, the best and most stringent inspection processes than what you would find

across the nation.

With that, we take the Auditor General's comments seriously. We made some

adjustments with regard to some of the reporting processes, but as well we have

to make decisions based on flexibility and the safety of the people of

Newfoundland and Labrador.

MR. BUTLER: ATV regulations, Minister - I know it was approximately a

couple of years ago now that this was supposed to be put in place - I was

wondering if we will see new legislation coming forward in this sitting of the

House and, if so, or even if not, has any consultation taken place with the

general public on that issue?

MR. O'BRIEN: No consultations as such, we have not. I have spoken to many

constituents across Newfoundland and Labrador in regard to ATV use and

regulations thereof. There are certain issues which myself and you have talked

about, certain things to be taken into account in regard to those regulations,

and then we have to work with the manufacturers.

As well, we have done a lot of research on this issue. It is not an easy

thing to correct without taking on certain liabilities of government and whatnot

because of the wording of some of the stickers that the manufacturers have on

their pieces of equipment. You cannot write legislation or regulations to be

prescriptive and to address each and every issue that you have out there. You

have to have a certain amount of flexibility with the regulations, keeping in

mind again the safety of the public. You have to keep that in mind when you go

through with this.

We have no legislation yet. We are still researching the issue, and we are

trying to work with the manufacturers and the industry itself to come up with a

viable solution to the issue that you have referenced.

MR. BUTLER: With regard to here in the Province, I think we have over 200

boil orders in place. I was just wondering what concerns, if any, have been

relayed to your department by the environmental health officers, and are these

boil orders something that you and your department consider to be potentially

detrimental to the public, or is it just for some minor reasons that they do

have those boil orders?

MR. O'BRIEN: We take all boil orders and all such things very, very

seriously, and I think any government would. One of the things that we hold dear

to our hearts and is very important is to have safe drinking water.

I know that the Department of Environment and Conservation brought in a

program two years ago in regard to addressing that issue in some of the remote

and rural areas of Newfoundland and Labrador, in regard to a system being

installed that was offered. I think that actual program has been funded again

under the current budget.

We do our inspections. Environmental health officers do them; they do them

professionally. If there is a boil order that is warranted for whatever reason,

then certainly it is levied. We have to keep the people of Newfoundland and

Labrador safe. I think councils and LSDs understand that, but we will continue

to endeavour to provide safe drinking water to the public whichever way we

possibly can.

MR. BUTLER: Since your department - or I think your department - performs

annual inspections of schools as part of their regular environmental health and

inspections program, I am wondering how many inspections have taken place in the

last twelve months, and can a list of those schools be provided? Maybe it is

already made public; I do not know.

MR. O'BRIEN: It can be made public. As a matter of fact, I think it is

public, if I could say that; it is obtainable. Each and every school, to my

knowledge, is inspected every year, and to this date every one of them has been

inspected.

We do have a much more stringent inspection process now, as we have had in

the past, and we try to train as well, which is very, very important. Our

officers try to train existing staff in regard to what they should be looking

for. Instead of just passing over a tile that is stained in the ceiling or

whatever, instead of just passing that over and just replacing it, they are

asking themselves: How did that stain happen? Where did it come from? That is

the kind of thing that our training officers do. They not only inspect; they

actually communicate and they actually educate, so that is a good thing.

We have moved from there in the last five or six years in regard to that.

Here, and anywhere that I go, I cannot say enough about my staff in Government

Services. As a minister, I am very proud of their professional work each and

every day across Newfoundland and Labrador for the public.

MR. BUTLER:

I understand, in addition to I think it is thirty-five

permanent environmental health officers, I believe there were two temporary

positions that were filled for a short period, I think, in 2009-2010 and a part

of 2010-2011. In my understanding it was to address the overall workload issues

in two regions. I was wondering what regions they were, and what

responsibilities did those two new positions have? Was it just with the schools

or would they have been, say, thirty-seven permanent environmental health

officers?

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, I am going to speak to that first, Roland. I think -

and I may be corrected and I do not think I will have to be corrected but I am

open for correction - they were in the Avalon area. It was all due to a growing

economy, and workloads and whatnot. We do have, I believe, one in Western as

well, but we have increased our staff in that area this year. We are in the

recruitment process. We have two extra people in this year's budget, I believe.

I will have a quick, quick look. I believe it is three, actually.

We have a growing economy. We have growth areas in the Avalon, Clarenville,

Gander, Grand Falls-Windsor especially, Corner Brook, so workloads vary from

year to year. Our officers are out there at any given time, any place, providing

that service. So, when we see that we need adjustments then we try to find

monies to put into temporary, but then when we reassess and also see that we

actually need it on a permanent basis, then it is up to me, as the minister, to

go looking for new positions, which I have this year.

MR. BUTLER: I know my colleague is supposed to start now, but just for me

to finish on this, just to come back for a second, my hon. colleague can have

her time on the other end.

They were permanent positions were they, those two that I referenced, or did

they just come on temporary?

MR. O'BRIEN: Temporary.

MR. BUTLER: Okay.

CHAIR: Mr. Butler will take a little break. We will come back to Mr.

Butler, I am sure.

Ms Michael.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

A lot of my questions have been asked already by Mr. Butler, so I will not be

repeating them, but just a couple of additional questions.

With regard to the winter tires, I am wondering, do the enforcement agencies

keep a record of when there are accidents in winter, whether or not the car in

the accident, especially the one who caused it, had winter tires on?

MR. O'BRIEN: Not specifically we do not, but in the meantime it is

captured in a certain percentage. That percentage is somewhere - if I might be

correct and I can clarify tomorrow Lorraine - down around the 3 per cent area.

That is very, very, very low that is attributed to anything pertaining to tires

or anything else like that. It is so low it is just insignificant, to be honest

with you.

MS MICHAEL: I would be glad to have it, just to have it.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, I will get that for you. If I can, I will provide it in

the House tomorrow to you.

MS MICHAEL: Sure, that will be fine, Kevin. That will be great.

Again, with regard to occupational health and safety regulations, I think the

department on January 1 began administering a new set of regulations.

MR. O'BRIEN: Actually, in September.

MS MICHAEL: September, was it?

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes.

MS MICHAEL: Can you give us an idea of what the department has

encountered? Has there been resistance or is the compliance going well? Just to

give us a sense of what is going on.

MR. O'BRIEN: I will just reference an

article in The Telegram on

the weekend by Lana Payne that actually gave some very, very good comments in

regard to my department and the new occupational health and safety regulations.

She had some very, very good comments. It is well-received by the Federation of

Labour, as Lana indicated, and also very well-received by the industry. It took

a lot of work, there were a lot of consultations; there was a lot of industry

participation.

Through that process, even though it took a fair bit of time to do, once we

announced those regulations in August of 2009, enforcement started in September

of 2009 with a softened enforcement because we wanted to really educate not only

the employers but also the employees in regard to those regulations. Then we

went to a hard enforcement as of January 1. These were very, very important. I

was very proud of them, to be honest with you. Again, you can bring in as many

regulations as you can, but if you do not communicate it and you do not educate

that it is not acceptable to go on a roof without fall protection equipment and

whatnot, well then your regulations are lost.

Again, as a department, and I as the minister responsible, have tried to

educate and communicate that and will continue to do it. They are probably the

best in the country, actually, right now.

MS MICHAEL: Okay, thank you.

No, I am asking this question, and I cannot believe that it was not asked by

Roland with regard to

MR. O'BRIEN: He is leaving it until last.

MS MICHAEL: - school bus inspection. How did you miss that one, Roland?

MR. BUTLER: It is there somewhere.

MS MICHAEL: Okay. Could we get an update on the school bus inspection

program?

MR. O'BRIEN: Well, again, we have one of the best, most stringent

inspection processes in the country. We inspect our buses more often and

acutely, with a fine-tooth comb when we go through these. We do not have - the

Auditor General referenced that we had a number of buses that were pulled from

service but that tells me actually our process is working. We are getting ahead

of it. We do not wait for something to happen.

If we inspect a bus and we see the brakes might need to be replaced sixty

days down the road, well, we will pull that bus now. We will not wait for sixty

days, or say to them: Well boys, listen, your brakes might last for another

sixty days so get them replaced within that sixty days. We will pull that bus.

So our system is working.

We are always trying as well to endeavour to look at other jurisdictions to

look at things that we might do in regard to school bus safety. You must

remember, too, that our inspectors, my department, we inspect on equipment and

mechanical issues. We do not do total inspections, because if we got down to the

actual specs of a bus we would never get a bus on the road. The simple reason is

that particular spec on a bus is probably about an inch-and-a-half thick and

some of them have nothing to do with safety whatsoever. We inspect as to

mechanical equipment to make sure that they are safe. We are not seeing buses

that are in accidents because of mechanical problems. We are not seeing students

being injured with regard to equipment issues or lack of equipment, so our

system is working.

Lorraine, we are always trying to endeavour to make sure that inspection

process is the best, better than any in the country, and we will continue to do

that. The safety of the children and the people of Newfoundland and Labrador is

not only the utmost and most important thing in regard to my mind and government

but I am sure it is yours as well, and that is why you are asking the question

and I appreciate that. I do not mind it, not a bit in the least. We will

continue to inspect, and inspect as often as we possibly can.

MS MICHAEL: I am just wondering, the number of buses having to be pulled

off the road, has that number gone down at all because of the intensity of

inspections?

MR. O'BRIEN: I am going to have to ask one of my officials if that has

happened.

MS MICHAEL: Okay.

MR. O'BRIEN: As soon as I can get the number I will share it with you

here in the House, if that is okay?

MS MICHAEL: Okay. That will be fine, yes.

You mentioned the Auditor General back in 2008; one of the things he did say

at the time was that there were not enough surprise inspections. Has that number

gone up?

MR. O'BRIEN: We have increased those, yes, we have.

MS MICHAEL: Great, okay.

So the other number then, it would be good to have.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you.

I think that is all of the questions I have; because, as I said, most of the

ones Roland asked I had down as questions, but I do have some line questions. I

could start some of those. I am not going line by line, don't worry, but ones

that stand out I would like to raise.

MR. O'BRIEN: No, okay.

MS MICHAEL: The first one is 1.2.01., and it is the Salaries line, 01. I

notice that we have a difference between this year's budget and the revised

budget of last year of $103,100. I am not used to seeing the salary line go down

rather than up, so I was just curious as to why that is the case.

MR. O'BRIEN: Just to be clear, you said 1.2.01.?

MS MICHAEL: 01.

MR. O'BRIEN: Salaries 01., right?

MS MICHAEL: Then 01. Salaries, yes.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes. It is all due to vacant positions.

MS MICHAEL: Right.

MR. O'BRIEN: It is hard to recruit positions, because we have some very

specific requirements within the Department of Government Services, so that is

always an issue. We have turnover, retirements, that kind of stuff. We had a

number of retirements. That all is reflected in that amount, but right now we

should be fully staffed by May 3 again.

MS MICHAEL: Okay, and that does bring you up then closer to last year's

budget?

MR. O'BRIEN: That is correct.

MS MICHAEL: Okay, great.

Under the same 1.2.01., but under the Revenue 02., the provincial revenue,

what happened between the budget of 2009 and the revision of 2009? It looks like

something special happened there, because it is a $564,800 infusion above the

budget.

MR. O'BRIEN: You are saying 1.1.01., Lorraine?

MS MICHAEL: 1.2.01., and then 02. the Revenue.

MR. O'BRIEN: Are you talking about a variance of about $9,000?

MS MICHAEL: No, $564,800. It is 1.2.01., Executive Support, and then 02.

the Revenue.

MR. O'BRIEN: Okay, I have you there. I was on the wrong page.

That is all pertaining to delays in receiving the contributions that we

recover from Workplace Health, Safety and Compensation Commission. Sometimes it

is all a timely thing in regard to those transfers. It would appear, because of

the March 31 cut off date, that we probably received a payment shortly

afterwards.

MS MICHAEL: Okay.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes.

MS MICHAEL: That would have been for the year before, because it is

$564,000 over what you expected to get.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes.

MS MICHAEL: It would have been overpayments from the year before. Would

this mean that now you are sort of up to date with money that you have been

expecting to come in, because you are back to the $589,000?

MR. O'BRIEN: That is correct. We will not know until the end of the year.

MS MICHAEL: Oh, okay.

MR. O'BRIEN: Because that is a moving kind of target.

MS MICHAEL: All right, it is not something you can anticipate

MR. O'BRIEN: (Inaudible) because we are depending on it.

MS MICHAEL: - ahead of time.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, absolutely.

MS MICHAEL: That is fine, okay. That is why it is so much off. It is not

that it came from the year before; it is that you did not know that this would

be what it would be.

MR. O'BRIEN: We did not; that is correct.

MS MICHAEL: You can only take a guess at it.

MR. O'BRIEN: That is correct.

MS MICHAEL: Okay, good enough.

2.1.02. Financial Services Regulation. Again, it is 01. Salaries under that.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes. That year we had twenty-six pay periods as compared to

twenty-seven pay periods that happened.

MS MICHAEL: Oh, right, of course.

MR. O'BRIEN: That only happens once every twelve years or so.

MS MICHAEL: That is right. Do you know what? I forgot about that. Last

year it was because we had the twenty-seven; now we are back to the twenty-six.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, that is right. Now we are gone back, absolutely.

MS MICHAEL: Okay, there may be a few other questions I do not have to

ask. I totally forgot about that.

MR. O'BRIEN: I have been asked to keep the twenty-seven, but it is not in

my control.

MS MICHAEL: That is right, exactly.

No, last year we knew that and did not ask the questions. This year I forgot

that we are back in the other regime now, twenty-six weeks. It is going to be

gone down, so I could forget the next one in that case.

Under 2.1.03., which is Commercial Registrations, and the line is 06.

Purchased Services, the budget went up significantly last year from the budget

to the revision. There was a difference there of $74,500 and we are up higher

again this year. Why is that line going up?

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, absolutely. That is all Moneris fees.

MS MICHAEL: Pardon?

MR. O'BRIEN: Moneris fees. Those are the fees that we have to pay: credit

cards, debit cards.

MS MICHAEL: Right.

MR. O'BRIEN: We are seeing an increase in our IT services. Also, we

suspect that this year coming there will be an increase in regard to those fees

that a credit card or a debit card would levy on government or private industry.

MS MICHAEL: Right. We are learning that electronic light is fairly

expensive, I think; that is what we are starting to learn in today's reality.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, that is right.

MS MICHAEL: Then, under 3.1.01., the next major head, line 07., there

seemed to be a major expenditure in equipment of some kind because the Budget

was $13,000 but the difference is $163, 200.

MR. O'BRIEN: That is correct, yes. This is all to do with some equipment

that we bought for the bus safety program, such as brake meters. We have some

computer laptops that we use in the field now and some ramps that make for easy

inspection processes.

MS MICHAEL: Okay, thank you.

I am not going to ask any salary ones because I am going to assume that they

all have to do with the twenty-six, and looking at them they do.

Under 3.1.03., Motor Vehicle Registration, line 06. Purchased Services, again

there is a big difference between what was budgeted. The revision went down and

then we are up about $300,000.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, the same answer as the last. It is all to do with

Moneris fees. We can only budget what we think a person would avail of that

service and IT setting. We also, again, have - there are indications that there

will be an increase in the Moneris fees from the particular industry itself, and

we also see now another increase with regard to people availing of that IT

service. So, it is a shot in the dark actually at times.

MS MICHAEL: Right. Thank you.

3.3.02. Queen's Printer, and then it is 02. the Revenue line, the revision

was significant, $155,000. Why did you expect $325,000 and then it was down as

low as $170,000?

MR. O'BRIEN: Again, as we develop - there are a lot of things available

online now. People can download it themselves, so that we do not have to print

as much. They can get it and access it through the Internet, so that $165,000

variance reflects that. We just did not have as many people wanting items and

things printed through the Queen's Printer any more.

MS MICHAEL: You are still aiming for $325,000 this year again; just leave

it there for awhile?

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, we are going to do a review, actually, this year of the

Queen's Printer in regard to the services they provide and have a really good

look at it this year coming. So, next year our budget may very well reflect what

we see in regard to what various departments and government agencies avail of

those printing services.

MS MICHAEL: Right. Thank you very much.

This probably will be my last one. Under 4.1.01., the Occupational Health and

Safety Inspections, here the difference between the budget and the revision -

there are some significant differences all the way down the line there. For

example, in Salaries the difference between this year's budget and the revised

budget is $877,900.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, it is a big number.

MS MICHAEL: That is a big number, and then 03. I will just name all of

them and then maybe you can go through all of them because it is almost every

line; 02. is not. Line 03. is the Transportation and Communications, $64,100, it

is not as much; the Supplies, $28,800; Professional Services, $114,000, that is

another big one; Purchased Services, $89,000. They are the significant ones.

Maybe you could speak to it because it seems to be a big switch there, a fair

bit more money being spent than has been, $1,235,300 actually in total.

MR. O'BRIEN: Probably we can go to 4.1.01.01. in Salaries first because

there is $877,900 difference. There is some variance in regard to the 4 per cent

increase that we had in the twenty-seven paydays as compared to the twenty-six.

Also, we had a number of vacant positions. We had some delayed recruiting issues

in 2009-2010. We had some overtime and other wage-salary related expenditures

that were less than anticipated.

As well, we have posted - as a matter of fact right now, in regard to our

inspection people, the OHS inspection people, we probably only have one or two

more positions left to fill. As we grow the economy, a lot of our positions, we

fill them. They are hard to retain because the private industry is always biting

at your heels in regard to those types of positions. They are unique and they

are needed in the industry. So, there is always that kind of a turnover right

now. We are endeavouring to correct that, and make people want to stay with our

OHS division and with government, but I am not going to sit here and tell you

that it is not a challenge. It is.

We did have that variance last year. Hopefully, we do not anticipate having

that kind of a variance in the upcoming year. As I said, we only have another

couple of positions left to fill. There might be some clerical positions and

that kind of stuff, and other positions that we might have to reclassify, but

none of those are in the position of inspection processes where I am really

concerned about. That is where my focus is, on the inspection side, not on the

other side. I am not saying that we do not need them and we do not need to fill

them, and we will, but we will move forward on that.

So, we do not anticipate having such a variance this year in next year's

budget, if I am still the minister. My staff surely will be there and they will

be working towards that. Do you want to go to

MS MICHAEL: Line 03.

MR. O'BRIEN: Did you say 4.1.01.02., Benefits?

MS MICHAEL: Actually, that one is okay.

MR. O'BRIEN: That one is okay, correct?

MS MICHAEL: Yes. Line 03.

MR. O'BRIEN: Line 03., which is Transportation and Communications. We

have been doing a fair number of teleconference type processes now which

decreases the amount of travel, so we did not need that. That kind of varies

from year to year as well. Last year we did not need as much travel within the

division itself, so we had a savings of $64,100. That could very well change

this year. As a matter of fact we could be over, but we try to maximize the

dollars and get the best bang for the dollar we possibly can. One of those ways

is to teleconference, if we possibly can.

MS MICHAEL: Right.

Line 05.

MR. O'BRIEN: Line 05. is down to Supplies. Certainly we would have

savings in that area because it could be attributed just to the vacancies alone

that we had, the number of vacancies up in the salary area.

MS MICHAEL: Actually, Kevin, 05. is Professional Services.

MR. O'BRIEN: You wanted Supplies. You jumped -

MS MICHAEL: I think Supplies are usually pretty straightforward.

MR. O'BRIEN: Okay, no problem.

We had a variance in Professional Services of $114,000. We did not need as

much contractual services for accident investigations this year as in past. I am

not saying that we would not avail of those services if we possibly needed, but

hopefully we will never need them again. Hopefully this variance is what it is

next year, or double, or whatever it can go to, because certainly I, as the

minister responsible, do not want to be availing of contractual services for

investigating accidents at all in Newfoundland and Labrador. That is where that

came from, that we did not need them, so that is where you have that savings.

MS MICHAEL: Could you tell me when the department would be called in,

with regard to investigating accidents?

MR. O'BRIEN: We investigate every accident, our officers do, but

sometimes you need some expertise in regard to that particular accident. If I

can bring it back in time, back in time in regard to the accident that happened

out at the oil refinery a number of years ago, we needed a lot of contractual

services there. Then you go out to the industry, bring them in, and that is what

drives this number.

MS MICHAEL: Right.

MR. O'BRIEN: If we do not have that kind of an issue, we do not have to

avail of those types of expertise on a contractual basis.

MS MICHAEL: Understood.

Line 06., Purchased Services, might be related.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes. Well, we have a decrease in expenditure in this in

regard to printing, vehicle repairs, and other services this year. Our vehicles

are in fairly good shape, and we did not need as much printing.

MS MICHAEL: Okay.

I think that is it for me. Mr. Chair?

CHAIR: Are you finished with the line questions?

MS MICHAEL: If I have missed something (inaudible) -

CHAIR: Okay, so you are finished with the line questions. We can come

back if you have missed one, maybe.

MS MICHAEL: Yes.

CHAIR: We can go back to - Roland, do you have a couple of more?

MR. BUTLER: Yes, Sir, I have a few more questions.

Minister, before I go into the questions, I want to go back to the winter

tires and all-season and just tell you an incident that happened to me when I

went up on the Northern Peninsula to the by-election.

I have two sets of tires; I have studded tires, plus I have a half decent set

of all-seasons. So, I got the call and I was going up there. I was half afraid

to go with my all-seasons I had because they were not new. I went and bought a

new set and went as far as Deer Lake, and when I was going up through the park

and getting up in the hills with the new all-seasons, not only I but many of us

could not move. We had to stay there.

The odd fellow came along with their winter tires - they did not have their

studded tires on because they were not allowed to have them on and there was

no comparison to how the guys went up with the snow tires on that given day

versus what I was with the new all-seasons. The disappointing part, when I got

up to the top of the hill, the minister comes on the radio and says you can put

on your studded tires today.

MR. O'BRIEN: You should have called me.

MR. BUTLER: I was 500 kilometres away; I could not get back and get them.

MR. O'BRIEN: Don't you have my cellphone number?

MR. BUTLER: There is quite a difference, Minister. I understand where you

are coming from. I am not arguing, or anything like that -

MR. O'BRIEN: No.

MR. BUTLER: - but there is quite a difference in winter tires and

all-season tires.

MR. O'BRIEN: I am certainly not here to argue that point, as well, other

than I will say that there are variances in regard to the type of all-season,

because all all-seasons are not the same. It depends on the quality; it depends

on a lot of variances.

MR. BUTLER: Yes.

MR. O'BRIEN: I stand on it that 80-odd per cent of the people of

Newfoundland and Labrador have winter tires on now, so what are you regulating

really? You are causing senior citizens who are sitting home, who only use their

vehicle once a week, once every two weeks, once every month, whatever it may be,

to incur an expense just to go to the grocery store sometimes. Sometimes you

have to take that into account as well when you make a decision.

So, the 80-odd per cent convince me that we are not ready for but, if I am

still the minister and I see the need for regulation then I will open my mind

again.

MR. BUTLER: Under the

Summary of 2010-2011, Salary Funding by Activity

on the sheet that I have here it is page 29, but where it is in the main booklet

I do not know - I want to reference that one, as well as page 38 where it says

Permanent Staff Complement. It shows the departmental total.

MR. O'BRIEN: Okay.

MR. BUTLER: Under the Temporary & Other Employees, right at the bottom of

the list is each division in your department, it says at the bottom the total is

$4,430,300. That is up $1.254 million from last year. I am wondering, is that to

cover off on the increase of the eleven positions? I think it is 504 positions

listed on page 38, and I think that is up eleven positions from last year. So

that is what that would be, I guess; that increase in the salary there would be

for those eleven positions?

MR. O'BRIEN: That would be part of that, for sure, and certainly we have

temporary positions in the department on an ongoing basis. Sometimes we fill

temporary positions to fill a need.

MR. BUTLER: Yes.

MR. O'BRIEN: So that is all lumped in there, if that is right in what I

am saying?

OFFICIAL: Yes.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, that is where it is.

MR. BUTLER: How many temporary positions would you have, do you think,

just approximately?

MR. O'BRIEN: He is asking for a number. Would it be higher than eleven?

OFFICIAL: (Inaudible).

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, it would be. That is what I see. I can get you that

number, Roland.

MR. BUTLER: Okay.

MR. O'BRIEN: I think it is actually higher than eleven, in reflection of

the need. It could be positions that we need for a specific need that is not

reflected there in the eleven. They are probably one-year temporary positions,

and sometimes we have temporary positions for two months, three months, whatever

it may be, in regard to the inspection process or whatever we may need. So, it

is probably a little higher than the eleven, but it is only just to address a

specific issue and a specific need at a specific time.

MR. BUTLER: Yes.

The enhanced inspections process, my understanding is they completed

eighty-seven of the Province's schools under the enhancement inspection process.

I was wondering if the objectives of this process successfully identified the

main conditions which might lead to air quality issues. I think that program is

finished now, is it?

MR. O'BRIEN: No, that program is still continuing.

MR. BUTLER: It is still ongoing, is it?

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, we have a number of schools that are going to be

inspected this year under that program but, more importantly, as I said earlier

in my remarks in regard to that inspection process, the emphasis that I have

anyway, and the most important, is the educational piece to the actual employees

who are in our schools in regard to the maintenance staff, that they now know

what to look for in regard to that. Then they report them and the particular

school board addresses those issues in regard to anything that has to happen.

They look for things. They do not just pass things over and just replace the

tile any more. They actually report that. They wonder where the actual stain

came from and the water might have come from.

So we have that process in place and we will continue under our programming,

depending on next year in regard to our budgets and that enhanced inspection

program. The most important part of that is to educate the actual existing

staff, the maintenance workers who are within the particular schools right

across Newfoundland and Labrador.

MR. BUTLER: Do you ever get any requests from the school boards or the

school districts to go in and do inspections over and above or sooner than you

would do your annual inspections?

MR. O'BRIEN: No. We have inspected, as I said earlier, every school in

the Province. We do it in regard to our own schedule. Not to my knowledge - I

have been here now around three years and I do not think we have been

specifically requested to inspect any given school. They identify problems now

on a go-forward basis, they report them through the proper processes and

protocols back to the school boards, and then they have to address these issues

and rank them in regard to importance.

I think the system is working as well. We have some old schools out there. We

all know about that, and addressing these problems. You can only invest so much

in infrastructure every year, but we are doing some wonderful work out there in

replacing schools, building new schools, renovating schools. In that process we

are certainly addressing air quality issues as well.

MR. BUTLER: We know, Minister, over the last year or year-and-a-half with

regard to the TODS program that there was an awful upheaval about people's signs

coming down. I am just wondering if you can give us an update on what we can

expect this year. I know there are still some signs up, and they are legal

signs, but when do you see the full TODS program being implemented in the

Province?

MR. O'BRIEN: The whole TODS program will take another couple of years to

really implement. There have been - and I will be the first one to admit - some

concerns out there. It has been endorsed by the industry itself; they recognize

it. The travelling public recognize that signage system, and it works well. If

it works well in Europe, if it works well down in the US and it works well in

other jurisdictions, surely it will work here and certainly it will clean up a

lot of our countryside and return it to the pristine nature that it should be

in. We move through that.

We address issues on an individual basis. I interact with the industry, with

the owners of businesses - I should not say on a daily basis - on a needs basis.

I address the issues. As a matter of fact, I will meet with them personally,

each and every one of them if I possibly can, or go to a region and review an

area, and try to address the issues.

We have areas in Newfoundland and Labrador where there are issues in regard

to the corridor space and that kind of thing in the regulations. I will go there

and I will review that myself and see can I come with a solution to it. With

that, we are working with the industry and I see it moving forward. I think it

is good.

I see some big changes, Roland, and I am sure you have, in regard to your

drive in the mornings from your district. The Trans-Canada, I think, looks a lot

better than what it did before. We will move with the industry and try to be

flexible and try to support them and make sure that they can grow their

business, grow the economy; but, in turn, once we implement and once we decide

on a system that is world known, renowned and proven, then certainly in time we

have to move in that direction and implement it to its fullest. That is our

intention.

MR. BUTLER: I had a meeting about two weeks ago with a gentleman from

Trinity Bay and he does not have those painted signs. He has the ones with the

legs on them, where you put the big lettering up on them and change them.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes.

MR. BUTLER: He was telling me that is a business he had ongoing. He told

me that - I think he is trying to get in and meet with someone else in here. I

do not know if it was your department or who. He had quite a few of those up and

they were taken down, even on private property. I am not saying by your people.

They were taken to a highway depot and buried in the ground. He got word from

one of the workers at the depot that this is where your signs are. I was just

wondering - now I am sure that is not a policy that government would want or

entertain.

MR. O'BRIEN: No, absolutely not.

MR. BUTLER: If they are not legal, you come and get them and take them

home with you, right?

MR. O'BRIEN: To be quite honest with you, I am not aware of that issue

whatsoever.

MR. BUTLER: Okay.

MR. O'BRIEN: We do have flexibility under the regulations to address some

of those issues, because we have some regulations that give us the opportunity

for the use of those types of signs depending on the type of industry. Say, for

instance, if a community were to have a festival at some time during the year,

they can actually use one of those signs to advertise that particular festival

for the period of time that they need, so we have flexibility under that.

In regard to the removal of those signs, because I would think they are

actual metal, probably lit, or the ability to be lit, I do not know anything

about that. If that particular constituent would want to call my department,

call me personally, please encourage the person to do so and I will deal with it

directly, or have my staff deal with it directly, to see if we can address the

issue and come to a solution or whatever. We will certainly research it for you,

and I will get back to you in the House as well.

MR. BUTLER: It is not my constituent. It would either be Mr. Peach or Ms

Johnson, either one of those two.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes.

MR. BUTLER: He deals with a lot of businesses in my area. This is why he

came to me, I suppose.

MR. O'BRIEN: Sure, and if you are talking to that particular person then

I will

MR. BUTLER: No doubt we will. He calls us every second or third day.

MR. O'BRIEN: You tell him to contact us and we will see what we can do.

MR. BUTLER: Yes.

The other one, Minister, I know last year I brought up marine vessel

inspections. It is not something that your department would be involved in.

Since then - I have to go back to your good old buddy again, now, the Auditor

General. I took notice you love him just now.

MR. O'BRIEN: He is my buddy.

MR. BUTLER: He was more or less, in his report, saying he felt that maybe

provincial inspections should be done with regard to safety. I was wondering if

that has come to your department or if you had any dealings with that since he

made those comments. I do not know if that was in this year's report or the

updated report that he did a review on. He mentioned that there probably should

be some.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes. That has not come to my department as such. As you

know, we do not have any jurisdiction once they throw the ropes off.

MR. BUTLER: I know, yes. Transport Canada, right?

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, absolutely, it is Transport Canada. It still remains

with Transport Canada and I do not think they have any desire or any there is

no movement to move that to the Province. It sits where it is, and that is where

it is, with Transport Canada.

MR. BUTLER: Yes. In his comments, more or less, he suggested that the

provincial inspections were necessary to determine whether safety standards

beyond those set by Transport Canada were being met.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, but the issue with that is over and above and I

certainly welcome all the comments of the Auditor General but sometimes there is

reality, and that reality is that we have no jurisdiction.

MR. BUTLER: Another issue that came up was the inspection and monitoring

of radiation equipment. I think that is through your occupational health and

safety inspectors and so on, right?

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, that is correct.

MR. BUTLER: I was just wondering if you can give us an update on that as

MR. O'BRIEN: First off, I would like to say in regard to the Auditor

General's comments - and I say again I welcome all his remarks but sometimes

there is reality, I suppose, I will put it that way, in that we inspect

radiation equipment, and we inspect on a yearly basis; but the issue he was

talking about was actually the registration of that piece of equipment, when it

was installed, in regard to being replaced by a newer, more updated piece of

equipment, it was not actually taken out of inventory. The actual inspection

piece was always carried forward by my people on a yearly basis. I sign off on

their certificates nearly on a daily basis, and that is where that lies, Roland,

that there is actually an inventory.

In the meantime, we are moving forward in regard to cleaning up that

inventory issue, that we have it more updated, and hopefully, working with the

authorities and the Department of Health and Community Services, as well, that

we actually close that gap.

So, that is the issue. It was not a safety issue at all. We inspect; we make

sure that the piece of equipment is installed properly. It is all inspected

before it actually goes into service, that kind of stuff, but it had nothing to

do with safety whatsoever. It has all to do with inventory issues.

MR. BUTLER: Yes.

With regard to Occupational Health and Safety - I know my colleague here

asked about the regulations and so on - I am wondering, how often do you have

visits to construction sites when they know you are not coming, type of thing,

or are they made aware when you are coming, or do you have many visits to large

companies and so on? I am wondering, how do you interact with workers'

compensation on safety issues and things like that?

MR. O'BRIEN: First off, to the last part of your question, we react and

integrate very well with the workers' compensation commission. We work hand in

hand in regard to occupational health and safety and all the issues surrounding

the safety of our workers in Newfoundland and Labrador. There are, overall,

35,000 work sites in Newfoundland and Labrador sitting today. They are inspected

not on a weekly or monthly basis but as often as we possibly can. Some of them

are unexpected; some of them are certainly scheduled, and that kind of stuff. It

would be very, very hard to capture that data in regard to the numbers that are

unexpected as compared to, but again we have one of the best regulatory and also

the best inspection processes in Canada today. As a matter of fact, if you read

the

article there by Lana Payne on that kind of stuff, that is reflected in her

comments.

MR. BUTLER: I think this is my last one because the one-liners I had I

think my colleague covered them, or the ones I had to ask were explained by one

or two that you did respond to.

MR. O'BRIEN: Sure.

MR. BUTLER: The last one is licensing of home inspectors, and I know this

was brought up back some time ago. Some other jurisdictions are doing it, or in

the process of doing it. I know there were people who were concerned, wondering

if they were getting the real value when their homes were inspected and so on.

I was wondering, has the department considered implementing regulations for

home inspectors? I know you said just now we are inspected to death. If so, if

you have done that, what is the status of that? If not, might it be an

initiative which the department would be considering in the future?

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, we consider everything. We are always, continually,

looking at other jurisdictions. We have to see what they are doing, number one.

Number two, is it effective? We have to analyze that as well before we would

ever consider implementing it. As you know - and the amount of legislation that

I have pushed through the House of Assembly - I am not averse to waiting for

other jurisdictions, too, either. On this case here, we have to look at other

jurisdictions in regard to that.

Right now, we do not inspect new construction of homes on the domestic side.

We do have electrical inspections, which are the most important, but in regard

to the contract and what a contractor would provide, we do not. I am not saying

that we will not in the future, but we are certainly not considering any

legislation to this date. We will just keep looking at the other jurisdictions

and we will see where it goes from there.

MR. BUTLER: Okay.

That is it from me, Sir, as far as I know.

CHAIR: Thank you, Sir.

Lorraine.

MS MICHAEL: Thanks.

I just have one more line item. It is at the very end; it is

section

5.1.01.05., Professional Services. There was a budgeted item last year of

$225,000. It looks like whatever might have been included in that has fallen off

the radar, because the revision is down to $46,100 and the estimates for this

year are $25,000.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes. We needed that money last year because we had a

consultant have a look at our procurement policy of the Public Tender Act.

MS MICHAEL: Which policy?

MR. O'BRIEN: Public Tender Act procurement.

MS MICHAEL: Oh, okay.

MR. O'BRIEN: Our procurement policies in regard to the Government

Purchasing Agency. That piece of work was completed. Now we are looking at that

report. I have it in my possession and we are considering some of the

recommendations that are contained in that report in regard to any changes that

we would make in regard to the Public Tender Act.

MS MICHAEL: The thing is, there is $200,000 you did not spend.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, we did not

MS MICHAEL: You just did not need to do any more work; is that it?

MR. O'BRIEN: No, that is right. Yes.

MS MICHAEL: Okay.

That is it, then, for me.

CHAIR: Are there any more questions?

No more questions.

Okay. We will call for all the subheads.

CLERK: 1.1.01 to 5.1.01 inclusive.

CHAIR: Shall the total carry?

Carried.

On motion, Department of Government Services, total heads, carried.

CHAIR: Shall I report the Estimates of the Department of Government

Services carried without amendment?

On motion, Estimates of the Department of Government Services carried without

amendment.

CHAIR: Okay, before we adjourn, I would just like to say that our next

Committee meeting will be on Tuesday, May 4, and that will be at 9:00 a.m. That

would be Intergovernmental Affairs, and the Volunteer and Non-Profit

Secretariat.

With that, I will ask for a motion to adjourn.

MR. LODER: So moved.

CHAIR: Moved by the Member for Bay of Islands.

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: Carried.

Thank you, Minister, and your staff in your department, and to our Committee.

Thank you very much.

On motion, the Committee adjourned.