Second Session, 43rd Parliament

Official Report

of Debates

( Hansard )

Thursday, May 7, 2026

Afternoon Sitting

Issue No. 176

The Honourable Raj Chouhan , Speaker

ISSN 1499-2175

The HTML transcript is provided for informational purposes only.

The PDF transcript remains the official digital version.

Contents

Routine Business

Tributes

Don Prince

Hon. Rick Glumac

Statements

Bhimrao Ambedkar

Sunita Dhir

Tributes

Nigel Woods and Kai Smart

Jeremy Valeriote

Talon Paul

Á’a:líya Warbus

Orders of the Day

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of Public Safety and Solicitor General

Hon. Nina Krieger

Macklin McCall

Bryan Tepper

Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of Transportation and Transit (continued)

Harman Bhangu

Hon. Mike Farnworth

Sheldon Clare

Ward Stamer

Ian Paton

Rosalyn Bird

Bruce Banman

Larry Neufeld

Proceedings in the Birch Room

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of Jobs and Economic Growth (continued)

Gavin Dew

Hon. Ravi Kahlon

Thursday, May 7, 2026

The House met at 1:02 p.m.

[The Speaker in the chair.]

Routine Business

Tributes

Don Prince

Hon. Rick Glumac : Last week we lost Don Prince. To know Don was to know Jackie and Don. They were together

on every daily walk in Port Moody, on every adventure around the world and in every

moment they shared.

He left us quietly, on his own terms, exactly as you’d expect of a man who lived his

life with such quiet dignity. And Jackie was right there where she always was, by

his side to the very end.

Jackie shared these words with me:

“Don was a proud Vancouver East Ender, yet he knew if we got together that it would

mean he’d have to move to Port Moody. We met at a running club in Queens Park in 1994,

and what a life we built from that moment. We shared so many wonderful running adventures,

none more memorable than the Médoc marathon in the Bordeaux region of France.

“Don ran over 50 marathons, including Boston, and countless ultramarathons. The trails

were truly his happy place. When a knee injury eventually took running from him, he

didn’t step away. He showed up as a volunteer, cheering others across the finish line.

We co-led a walking group at our local running store’s Tuesday evening clinic, insisting

all the while that he wasn’t a leader, even as he led.

“Don gave generously to charities he believed in. He loved cars, birds, cruising,

crib and poker, the newspaper crossword, our daily walks together and Rocky Point

Ice Cream.”

[1:05 p.m.]

I knew Don for probably 20 years. He was a man of deep principle, someone who did

things his own way, on his own terms, but whose heart was so generous. He gave so

much of himself, quietly and without fanfare, to the people and to the causes that

he believed in. Port Moody won’t ever be the same. I’ll miss him, and our community

will miss him.

Don, we will never forget you.

Statements

Bhimrao Ambedkar

Sunita Dhir : Today I would like to pay tribute to Dr. B.R. Ambedkar, lovingly remembered as Babasaheb

Ambedkar, a visionary leader whose lifelong fight for equality, justice and human

dignity continues to inspire generations around the world.

Born into a marginalized community and facing discrimination throughout his life,

Dr. Ambedkar rose to become one of the most influential social reformers in history.

He’s best known as the principal architect of the Constitution of India, for his tireless

work to end caste discrimination and advance the rights of marginalized communities,

women and workers. He believed deeply in the power of education, inclusion and equal

opportunities for all.

In Vancouver, the legacy of Babasaheb lives on through the dedication and service

of community organizations and leaders who continue to promote the teachings and values.

I would especially like to recognize Chetna Association of Canada and Shri Guru Ravidass

Sabha, Vancouver, Gilley Temple, for their important work in bringing communities

together, preserving cultural heritage and advancing social harmony and empowerment.

As we honour Babasaheb Ambedkar, let us recommit ourselves to building communities

rooted in compassion, equality and dignity for all. His legacy is not only part of

history; it remains a guiding light for a more just and inclusive future.

Tributes

Nigel Woods and Kai Smart

Jeremy Valeriote : I attended two memorials in Whistler the weekend before last for very different people,

both impressively well attended by hundreds of people. I wanted to mark these two

very important people in the Sea to Sky community.

Nigel Woods lived to the age of 74, and he was a pillar of the Whistler community

— first visited when he was a UVic student; founded Coastal Mountain Excavations,

which shaped modern Whistler. It was Whistler’s oldest operating company.

From a chairlift, he spotted an island in Alpha Lake that he bought in 1974 for a

sum unknown, but it had previously changed hands for $50. He built a home there, affectionately

called Woods Island.

He was known in his family for his ZFL — zest for life. His daughter Carleigh said:

“I’ve had friends only decide on their life partner because that person had the ZFL.”

She said of Nigel: “You could be lined up in the village, 200 people deep, with little

kids that are crying and it’s pouring down rain, and Nigel would be like: ‘It was

the best day ever.’” There was always a silver lining.

It was said that if you rode a chairlift with him, he became your friend. And I have

several people who told me examples of that.

His son Matt said he lived 100 lives in one, and he’ll be missed by his family and

by the community.

Nigel was 74, which is still too early, but the hardest one for me was in the Whistler

Conference Centre for 23-year-old Kai Smart, who is a rare breed.

He was born and raised in Whistler, the son of two Olympians, John and Julia, who

were founders of Momentum Camps. Kai was first overall in B.C. as a competitive skier,

and Kai and his brother Luke cut their teeth on the ski ramp their family had in the

back of their house. Kai was a film-maker, focused on skiing but also on social and

climate issues.

[1:10 p.m.]

Kai passed away from doing what he loved. He died from injuries he sustained in an

avalanche while filming for a ski and climate film in Japan.

He’ll be sorely missed by his parents, John and Julia, and his brother, Luke.

I thank you, Mr. Speaker, for the opportunity.

Talon Paul

Á’a :líya Warbus : I rise today with a pretty heavy heart to pay tribute to a very bright young man.

Talon Paul was a son to Lauraleigh Paul, grandson to [an Indigenous language was spoken]

of xʷməθkʷəy̓əm səlilwətaɬ Nations. He left us suddenly on May 4, 2026, at the age of 20 years old. He passed

suddenly, and the family is gathering now in community. They have lit a fire for him,

for his journey to meet our ancestors on the other side.

His mother writes:

“My sons are incredible humans. They make me so proud to be their mom. I am enlightened

by their love and humbled by their wisdom. I’m inspired by their courage and determination

to be true to themselves and each other. I have the utmost faith that they will always

persevere and shine for their own destiny.

“They will never forget who they are, and as a family, we will reflect the love we

need to heal and uplift our past, present and future. We can and we will get through

anything we’re challenged by. Our ancestors have us, and we have each other.

“Prayers for my sons: may they always continue on the journey. Make their dreams come

true. May they always have ancestral love and protection and know prosperous times

for most of their being.

“I love the two of you with all of me.”

I just want to offer my prayers and my condolences to my dear friend Lauraleigh and

for Koyas, who has lost a brother.

I just wanted to say those few words for them until I can be with them after the House

adjourns.

Orders of the Day

Hon. Mike Farnworth : In this chamber, I call the Committee of Supply for the estimates for the Ministry

of Public Safety and Solicitor General.

In

Section A, the Douglas Fir Room, I call Committee of Supply for the estimates for

the Ministry of Transportation and Transit, estimates of the Legislative Assembly

and the estimates of the officers of the Legislative Assembly.

In

Section C, the Birch Room, I call Committee of Supply, estimates for the Ministry

of Jobs and Economic Growth.

[1:15 p.m.]

The House in Committee,

Section B.

The committee met at 1:16 p.m.

[Mable Elmore in the chair.]

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of

Public Safety and Solicitor General

The Chair : Members, I’ll call the Committee of Supply to order.

On Vote 42: ministry operations, $1,085,591,000.

The Chair : Did you have any opening remarks you’d like to make?

Hon. Nina Krieger : I’m going to keep my opening remarks brief because I’d love to dedicate as much of

our time together to the substance of the discussion and the debate. But I would just

like to begin with a couple of acknowledgements.

First and foremost, I want to acknowledge my colleague across the aisle, the MLA for

West Kelowna–Peachland, the critic for Public Safety, and all of his colleagues that

will be participating in the estimates process for the Ministry of Public Safety and

Solicitor General.

I have enjoyed the opportunity to engage in discussion during committee stages of

various bills. We’ve had the opportunity to meet with members of my team to offer

technical briefings and have really appreciated the collegial, constructive discussions

that we’ve been able to have around public safety, which is integral to the well-being

of people in our province.

I’d also like to acknowledge the team from the ministry that will support me during

estimates and also that works tirelessly every day with tremendous expertise and dedication

to advance public safety for British Columbians.

Beside me, I’m joined by Deputy Solicitor General Tara Richards; by the assistant

deputy minister of the policing and security branch and the director of policing and

law enforcement services, Glen Lewis. Also behind me are Brian Sims and Jamie Lipp

from the policing and security branch.

Then off to another room but who will be joining me throughout our discussions are

a number of assistant deputy ministers: Erin Gunnarson of B.C. Corrections; Taryn

Walsh of community safety and victim services branch; Dara Landry, who is ADM and

executive financial officer of the corporate management services branch; Toby Louie,

our ADM of RoadSafetyBC; Dr. Jatinder — also known as Taj — Baidwan, our chief coroner

with the B.C. Coroners Service; David Hume, the ADM with the liquor and cannabis regulation

branch; Megan Harris, the ADM with corporate strategic initiatives; as well as Rachel

Chan, who is executive director of gambling supports division in the independent gambling

control office.

They are supported by teams in Victoria and across the province that do their work

with tremendous skill and commitment.

With that, I look forward to this estimates process.

[1:20 p.m.]

Macklin McCall : I have a few opening remarks too, if I may.

I just want to thank the minister and her staff for their preparations and attendance

for these estimates regarding Budget 2026, as they relate to my role as His Majesty’s

Official Opposition critic for Solicitor General and Public Safety.

Before I move into my lines of questioning, I have some brief remarks concerning my

background with policing and public safety, which is perhaps why my side of the House

sought fit to assign me to serve as critic for Solicitor General and Public Safety.

For those who are not aware, I served 19 years with the RCMP in Penticton, Kelowna,

West Kelowna and Lake Country detachments. I was mainly involved with general duty

policing. I was on bike patrol and downtown enforcement in Kelowna, where I dealt

with the homeless population, nuisance calls in the downtown core related to small

businesses and ensuring that they were safe, as well as drug and liquor enforcement

— all while dealing with street-level drug addiction and drug trafficking.

I was on the crime reduction unit, dealing with problem residences across Kelowna,

specifically dealing with property crime offences, where significant stolen property

was being trafficked out of the residences, and specifically targeting prolific offenders.

I was also involved with the police and crisis team, or PACT, or the mental health

car, where I rode around with a mental health nurse responding to mental health calls

in Kelowna.

I was on the RCMP tactical team, or public order, where I received significant training

and experience in dealing with public order events, such as protests and riots. This

also resulted in emergency deployment for natural disasters all across B.C.

Finally, I was a road supervisor in Kelowna, supervising six constables. I know a

little bit about front-line policing in British Columbia.

I would also like to recognize my colleague the MLA for Surrey-Panorama in his capacity

as critic for community safety and transnational crime, with whom I have collaborated

in our preparations for these estimates, also formerly with law enforcement, with

the RCMP, which I know he will be able to explain himself.

Today we will start the work of oversight on the ministry operations vote in Budget

2026, with a focus on policing expenditures, public safety planning and the broader

fiscal risks facing British Columbia.

This includes not only ongoing policing costs but also major event pressures, such

as the upcoming FIFA World Cup. This will place significant and complex demands on

our public safety system.

Across the province, we are seeing policing costs rise steadily, year over year. At

the same time, municipalities are raising serious concerns about affordability. Staffing

shortages remain persistent, and communities are questioning whether service levels

are keeping pace with demand. These pressures are not occurring in isolation. They

are compounded by large-scale event obligations that require substantial security

planning, coordination and funding.

The World Cup provides a clear example of these challenges. Vancouver is set to host

seven matches. While early projections place total event costs in the range of approximately

$240 million to $260 million, there remains a significant lack of transparency around

one of the most critical components — safety and security.

Historically, security represents one of the largest and most volatile cost drivers

for events of this scale, yet there is no clear, defined public breakdown; no detailed

risk adjustment estimate; and no clear contingency framework.

We have seen this pattern before. During the 2010 Olympic Winter Games, security costs

escalated significantly beyond early projections, ultimately exceeding $900 million

nationally.

Internationally, FIFA World Cup events have also demonstrated a consistent pattern

of underestimating security expenditures early in the planning cycle.

With costs rising as risks evolve and operational requirements become clearer, at

the same time, comparisons with other host jurisdictions raise further questions.

Toronto, which is hosting six matches, has a higher overall projected cost range,

and typical planning assumptions suggest that security can account for between 20

percent and 30 percent of total event costs.

In the United States, host cities often appear to carry lower local security costs,

but this is largely due to the ability to draw an extensive federal security infrastructure,

which reduces local expenditures but does not eliminate the underlying costs.

What this means for British Columbia is that taxpayers are likely more directly exposed

to security cost risks, particularly if those risks are not fully disclosed or adequately

planned for.

[1:25 p.m.]

Transparency is essential not only to ensure accountability but to allow municipalities,

stakeholders and the public to understand the full scope of financial exposure.

The questions that I will follow with are designed to bring clarity to these issues.

They focus on cost drivers, risk management, staffing capacity and the sustainability

of current policing models. The goal is to ensure that public funds are being used

effectively, that risks are clearly understood and that decisions made today do not

create greater financial pressures in the future.

With that, I’d like to proceed with my questions.

Vancouver is scheduled to host seven FIFA World Cup matches at B.C. Place in 2026.

Public reporting and government disclosures have placed total event costs in a broad

range of approximately $49 million to $98 million and, in some cases, $260 million

or more across all levels of government.

Updated projections in comparable jurisdictions suggest that costs continue to evolve

as planning advances. Security is widely recognized as one of the largest cost drivers

for mega-events, often representing between 20 percent and 30 percent of total expenditures

in Canadian planning assumptions, and, in some international cases, exceeding initial

projections significantly.

At present, there is no publicly released stand-alone security budget for the Vancouver

matches. Security-related costs are expected to be embedded across multiple categories

including policing, counterterrorism, venue security and crowd management.

Historical precedent — including the 2010 Olympic Games, where security costs exceeded

$900 million nationally — demonstrates that early estimates frequently underestimate

final expenditures due to evolving risk conditions, operational requirements and federal

involvement.

Comparative analysis shows that Toronto, hosting six matches, has projected total

costs in the range of approximately $300 million to $380 million, implying a substantial

security component even without detailed public breakdowns.

In the U.S., host cities often rely on federal agencies and existing Homeland Security

infrastructure, which can reduce the visibility of local costs but does not eliminate

the overall expenditure. This creates a structural difference where Canadian jurisdictions

may face more direct and transparent fiscal exposure.

Given these factors, the primary concern is not that Vancouver’s costs are necessarily

out of line with peer cities but that the level of transparency, risk disclosure and

contingency planning does not reflect the known volatility and scale of security expenditures

for events of this magnitude.

So in the context of this budget, and taking into account FIFA events having a history

of policing and security cost overruns, will there be cost overruns for FIFA in the

policing and security context?

[1:30 p.m.]

Hon. Nina Krieger : My thanks to the member opposite for his introductory comments and also the question.

We are looking forward, in the province, to hosting the FIFA World Cup. This is a

tremendously exciting opportunity for Vancouver, for British Columbia and for Canada,

with an opportunity to shine a light on our tremendous province and generate significant

economic benefits for the region in terms of jobs, investment and tourism. Ensuring

a safe and secure games is a top priority for government and a firm commitment of

government as well as this ministry.

I would like to confirm that planning has been underway for well over a year. Plans

to ensure a secure games have been informed by extensive work between all three levels

of government — municipal, provincial and federal — and multiple levels of policing.

[1:35 p.m.]

The Vancouver police department is the police of jurisdiction for FIFA, but B.C. RCMP

are mobilized, as well as the federal RCMP.

The overall costs for safety and security continue to be informed by details that

evolve as we get closer to the games and also taking into account perhaps changing

geopolitical contexts. So we have committed to delivering, in the coming weeks, a

comprehensive update as government, around costs, revenues and economic opportunities

for FIFA, which will be delivered by the Ministry of Tourism, Arts, Culture and Sport

and include significant updates related to the public safety costs.

I’d just also like to underscore that all levels of government are accountable and

processes are in place to ensure accountability for the use of public funds. This

work is prioritized. Plans are in place. A cost confirmation is thoroughly underway,

and we look forward to a further update on this front.

Macklin McCall : Thank you for that, Minister. Now, I just want to clarify a few things. There are

a couple notes I was making as you were speaking there.

I understand how elaborate, obviously, planning is. That’s a reality for sure. But

with the answer that you provided, it sounds like, and I want to be certain, either

maybe you don’t know if there are overruns for FIFA…. It sounds like there’s a report

coming out — I think you said in a few weeks — by the Ministry of Tourism. Is that

not known currently by the government, or do you have any data on…?

My question to the minister: is there any data currently known by this government

or by the minister’s ministry with respect to cost and if there are any overruns?

Is that known now? Is it a no, or is it that we have to wait two weeks to find the

answer?

[1:40 p.m.]

Hon. Nina Krieger : Thank you for the question.

Elements of the costs are identified, have been planned for and are being refined

as we get closer to the event. The member opposite acknowledged the complexity and

the partnerships that characterize ensuring a safe and secured event of this scale,

and specific aspects of cost-sharing between levels of government are being confirmed.

This will all be reflected in the comprehensive update that the government will be

providing in the coming weeks around costs and revenues associated with the games.

Macklin McCall : I have to ask. Under the ministry’s operations vote in Budget 2026, what contingency

funding has been set aside to address potential cost overruns in FIFA security planning?

Hon. Nina Krieger : The costs are not represented within the ministry’s operational budget. The funds

for the games will be provided through the Ministry of Finance’s contingency vote.

Macklin McCall : Thank you, Minister, for that.

Under the ministry’s operations vote in Budget 2026, what percentage of the total

FIFA World Cup budget is currently allocated to policing and security functions?

[1:45 p.m.]

Hon. Nina Krieger : As I’ve noted, the delivery of safe and secure World Cup games in B.C. relies on

partnership between multiple levels of government and police, including the VPD, provincial

police service, the RCMP and also the federal RCMP.

[1:50 p.m.]

The safety and security actions for FIFA will engage the provincial police service,

which is a portion of the ministry’s budget. We will be, as I have noted, providing

an update in the coming weeks that includes the details about the costs and revenues

for these games.

Macklin McCall : That’s two questions where the plan or the report from tourism is coming in a few

weeks. I’m going to assume that unless…. Correct me if this is incorrect, but perhaps

the minister doesn’t know the answer to the question with respect to what percentage

of the total FIFA World Cup budget is currently allocated.

I understand the original response, where, potentially, there’s more coming. But if

I’m understanding the minister correctly, then currently it’s not known. That’s what

I’m getting out of that. Correct me if I’m wrong in what I’m hearing.

I’ll move to the next question. Under the ministry’s operations vote in Budget 2026,

why has the ministry not released a stand-alone security cost estimate for the Vancouver

matches?

Hon. Nina Krieger : Thank you to the member opposite for the questions.

I think it’s important to make a distinction. The costs to deliver safety and security

for the games are not unknown. They are being refined in partnership with the levels

of government that are engaged in planning and delivery of safe and secure games,

being informed by the risk assessment that remains an evolving aspect of security

planning, alongside an evolving geopolitical context and also as details of cost-sharing

between partners are worked out.

But I think it is an important distinction that the costs are not unknown. They are

being refined, and they will be shared in the coming weeks in the form of a comprehensive

update from the Ministry of Tourism, Arts, Culture and Sport.

Macklin McCall : Thank you for the clarification, Minister.

My question for the minister is: how many ministries are going to be paying a portion

of the FIFA security and policing costs?

[1:55 p.m.]

Hon. Nina Krieger : To restate an answer I provided earlier, the funds are being provided under the Ministry

of Finance’s contingency vote.

Larry Neufeld : Regrettably, I’m out of time as far as waiting for my companion to come and introduce

his class. I’d like to seek leave to make an introduction.

Leave granted.

Introductions by Members

Larry Neufeld : This is actually a colleague of mine’s class. Unfortunately, he can’t get here in

time, so I’d like to take the opportunity to welcome the Southpointe Academy — 38

people, 34 grade 5s and grade 4s. I understand they’re on the government side at the

moment. The MLA is Ian Paton.

I’d also like to have the House give a very warm welcome to the Southpointe Academy

students and teacher Susan Hammerberg. Please make them feel welcome.

Debate Continued

Macklin McCall : Why is the Minister of Tourism providing an update or a report on safety and security

for FIFA, and not the Minister for Public Safety?

Hon. Nina Krieger : The Minister of Tourism, Arts, Culture and Sport, in the update offered within the

coming weeks, will provide an update about all costs, inclusive of public safety but

all costs broadly, revenues and economic benefits that relate to the FIFA World Cup

games.

Macklin McCall : Under the ministry’s operation vote in Budget 2026, can the minister provide a breakdown

of security-related costs, including policing, counterterrorism, venue security and

crowd management?

[2:00 p.m.]

Hon. Nina Krieger : Thank you for the question, which I do think reflects and speaks to the complexity

of planning and delivery of safe and secure games and also reflects the partnership

across levels of government that is key to this work.

Things such as counterterrorism and border security, which are engaged in this work,

are matters of federal jurisdiction. So as I’ve already noted, the cost-sharing and

the costs that are being refined as we get closer to the event will be shared, and

they continue to evolve in cooperation with our federal partners and as details are

finalized in the lead-up to the games.

Macklin McCall : I just want to add something to that previous question. I asked about if the minister

can provide a breakdown of security-related costs, including policing, counterterrorism,

venue security and crowd management — pretty important things with a large venue with

a lot of people. I appreciate the response from the minister for that.

With the previous responses, I just want to, for clarity’s sake, ask a follow-up,

really, to that question. With what the minister said, then, will that information

for those specific items be coming in the updates or the report from the Minister

of Tourism?

[2:05 p.m.]

Hon. Nina Krieger : I think, as the member can appreciate, given his law enforcement background, there

are certain security sensitivities related to information that informs the planning

for safety and security for the games, and we’ll be able to provide the level of detail,

as much detail as possible and as appropriate, given those sensitivities.

Some of the items that the member references in his question, such as counterterrorism,

relate to matters of federal jurisdiction and so would not necessarily be part of

the update that I referenced that the province will be provided.

But I can offer assurances that all expenditures and revenues are being carefully

managed to ensure transparency, accountability and value for taxpayers.

Macklin McCall : Now, the event is five weeks out, I believe — five to four or 4½. It’s coming pretty

quickly here, and the minister says that it’s still being planned.

Why isn’t the minister involved in the FIFA security, since it’s really her file?

How involved is the minister in preparation for FIFA?

[2:10 p.m.]

Hon. Nina Krieger : As Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General, I have been intimately engaged

with planning and oversight related to safety and security for the World Cup from

the early days of my appointment. Conversations with the federal Public Safety Minister

and discussions between senior ministry staff and senior Ministry of Public Safety

officials have been ongoing and really taking place on an almost daily basis.

The integrated safety and security unit was established to provide overall leadership,

accountability and coordination for safety and security for the games.

[2:15 p.m.]

As I’ve stated, the VPD is the police of jurisdiction and sits on the ISSU, along

with city of Vancouver. Representatives from my ministry and members of VPD and RCMP

E division are also regularly in contact, not only with national partners but also

with international partners and, for instance, other host cities related to the games.

So this is something that my team at the ministry is engaged with on a really ongoing

basis. Again, we have a deep commitment to the safety and security of visitors, of

athletes, of residents, of communities during the FIFA World Cup games.

Macklin McCall : Thank you to the minister for the response.

Now, we’re here with the budget, talking about dollars, and I haven’t really got any

figures yet, so I just want to tweak my next question a little bit here. Can the minister

state what assumptions were used in estimating FIFA-related security costs, including

risk levels, staffing requirements and federal participation?

[2:20 p.m.]

Hon. Nina Krieger : As we know, FIFA World Cup ’26 is the largest international sporting event in the

world. Hosting it here in B.C. and Vancouver will be truly a once-in-a-generation

opportunity for all British Columbians, especially those who love the game of soccer.

There are a number of assumptions that have guided our planning, and first and foremost

is that our goal is to ensure safe and secure games for all, not only the fans and

the athletes and visitors but also for communities of residents and people that are

in the host city at all times.

I think another assumption is that we are, in hosting these events, truly on both

the national stage and the international stage. Because of that, the planning needs

to be deeply informed by the changing geopolitical landscape, by national factors.

Also, I think, core to the assumption is that planning and delivering a safe games

requires collaboration and partnership. This goes beyond the VPD, which is the police

of jurisdiction. This involves, as I’ve stated, provincial and federal police forces.

We’ve had an assumption from the beginning of a strong federal partnership, that that

would be needed, so we are grateful for that strong partnership that we have from

all levels of government and all levels of police agencies.

Macklin McCall : The previous answer…. Asking about the minister’s involvement in planning and this

type of thing, the minister said specifically…. “Intimately engaged” were the words

that the minister used.

I just am wondering if the minister can…? In what ways specifically? Can the minister

provide examples of how she’s intimately engaged in the planning? If the minister

is intimately engaged in the planning of FIFA, then why don’t we have the numbers?

[2:25 p.m.]

Hon. Nina Krieger : I think, in my previous answer, I had an opportunity to touch on the work that has

been underway that I have been involved with as minister. We pointed to my engagement

of my federal counterpart at Public Safety Canada, as well as the commissioner of

the federal RCMP. I was recently in Ottawa back in March meeting with both the Public

Safety Canada Minister and Commissioner Duheme on matters related to FIFA.

Also, as minister, I have oversight of teams that are working in a very direct way

on matters of planning and risk assessment with, of course, our police partners. We’ve

talked about the police partners that are involved in this work, in the planning and

preparations and in the delivery of safe games. When it comes to the integrated safety

and security unit, the work of the VPD, of the RCMP, I have tremendous confidence

in their skill, in their expertise that is key to the planning and the delivery of

these games.

I also meet regularly with ministry counterparts, with other cabinet ministers with

a role in the FIFA World Cup games and the province’s engagement with this file.

[2:30 p.m.]

Macklin McCall : Thank you for the response from the minister on that.

I appreciate the minister has said she’s met with a lot of key stakeholders, important

players at multiple levels of government, international, and so on, as there’s a lot

of planning, obviously, that goes into an event like this, and I appreciate that.

With all the engagement and the planning and the meetings that have gone on with those

individuals, police partners, and so on…. All the meetings have happened, as the minister

has said in a couple of her answers, but there has not been any real discussion here

so far with respect to any budgetary facts.

With all of that said by the minister, is there anything with respect to the budget

specifically for FIFA, with those meetings, that the minister could provide?

Hon. Nina Krieger : I have engaged directly and extensively with the federal government on matters that

informed their commitment with regard to federal policing and was very pleased with

the federal government’s commitment of $100 million for FIFA World Cup safety and

security activities in B.C. That was certainly something that was discussed and, again,

is key and reflective of the partnership that is at play here in ensuring a safe and

secure games of notable stature for the province and significance for Canada generally.

Macklin McCall : Can the minister give an update on funding the FIFA president’s motorcade, or is

that still in planning?

[2:35 p.m.]

Hon. Nina Krieger : This type of security assessment attached to the request of the president of FIFA

is made by police. This would fall under the jurisdiction of the Vancouver police

department. It’s my understanding that the VPD has commented on the request and indicated

that there would not be the detail that has been requested.

Macklin McCall : My question to the minister. What portion of FIFA security costs is expected to be

funded by the federal government versus the province and the municipalities?

[2:40 p.m.]

Hon. Nina Krieger : Thank you for the question. There isn’t a predetermined formula in terms of the cost

breakdown between federal, provincial and municipal partners. This can really depend

on the services that are engaged, based on risk assessments and other factors that

are dynamic.

I’ve mentioned that planning is being refined until the games commence, but I should

also note that planning is being assessed and refined during the games, on an ongoing

basis by all partners.

I’ve noted the important coordination role of the integrated safety and security unit.

But the ministry has a seat at that table and is part of the ongoing daily monitoring

and assessment of measures and related costs that take place throughout the games

as well. So that really speaks to the responsive nature of planning for the delivery

of safe games and for an event of this scale that involves the police partnerships

and the government partnerships that are so core to a successful and safe games.

Macklin McCall : Can the minister explain how the $100 million from the federal government will be

spent?

[2:45 p.m.]

Hon. Nina Krieger : The contribution of up to $100 million from the federal government is for our enhanced

security operations related to the games. We are currently finalizing details of that

contribution with our federal partners.

Macklin McCall : Can the minister state what lessons from the 2010 Olympic Games have been incorporated

into FIFA security planning to prevent cost overruns?

[2:50 p.m.]

Hon. Nina Krieger : I do appreciate this question because it really speaks to the elements that are engaged

in planning and delivering a safe and secure games.

Really, planning takes into account lessons learned not only from events such as the

2010 Olympics but also from other World Cup host cities, from other major events.

The landscape for protests has changed in the last 16 years. So all of that collective

and evolving knowledge and expertise of our law enforcement partners and of the ministry

is contributing to these games.

We will also be drawing on lessons learned managing all expenditures and revenues

to ensure transparency and accountability and, importantly, value for taxpayers.

Macklin McCall : My next question. How will increases in threat levels, protest activity or geopolitical

risk impact projected security costs?

[2:55 p.m.]

[Lorne Doerkson in the chair.]

Hon. Nina Krieger : Thank you for this question, which, I think, also speaks to the partnerships and

the responsiveness that are so important to the delivery of safe games.

I’ve spoken of, and the member references, a changing geopolitical landscape that

informs planning. Police are certainly engaged in monitoring threats on local, national

and international levels. Planning is directly responsive to their assessments of

risk levels in all three areas. Police have been, and will continue to be, responsive

to those analyses as their work progresses.

I’ve touched on the partnership that we have with the federal RCMP. I think this is

such an important opportunity to underscore just how important that partnership is.

That partnership means that we’re able to draw on their resources and their expertise

in terms of intelligence, for instance, or in terms of specialized units.

In my conversations with the federal Public Safety Minister, with the commissioner

of the RCMP, with the deputy commissioner of E division, I’ve received a strong and

a clear message that our federal police are there to support B.C., to support the

VPD in the delivery of safe and successful games.

Macklin McCall : Can the minister confirm what safeguards are in place to ensure that FIFA-related

policing costs do not reduce core policing services elsewhere in British Columbia?

[3:00 p.m.]

Hon. Nina Krieger : Thank you for the question. That really speaks to, again, the complexity of this

work and also the importance of coordination with all parties.

In terms of a commitment to safety and security, that includes not just for the games

themselves but, of course, reflects the need to maintain safety in communities and

also takes into account the potential need to mobilize police in the event of an emergency.

We know that FIFA is taking place during wildfire season in this province, so planning

includes those factors as well.

[3:05 p.m.]

Because of our deep and our ongoing engagement with our partners in government and

with multiple levels of law enforcement, we do have a commitment from the highest

the requisite and appropriate resources for safety and security during FIFA World

Cup are there and also that resources are there to respond to regular policing responsibilities

and any emergencies in the province as necessary.

Macklin McCall : Thank you for that, Minister.

My follow-up question to the minister: what impact will FIFA-related deployments have

on staffing levels and overtime costs within RCMP, and what is the province doing

to ensure costs are not downloaded onto municipalities?

[3:10 p.m. - 3:15 p.m.]

Hon. Nina Krieger : We’ve spoken about the Vancouver police department being the police of jurisdiction.

In addition to their own resources, the VPD has requested significant resources from

the RCMP as the provincial police service. For municipalities, their costs are really

governed by the contract that they have for RCMP policing. Those agreements, those

contracts, do exist.

We do know that RCMP from beyond B.C. will also be brought into B.C., as needed, to

support public safety.

I think another key point is that very highly detailed planning has gone into ensuring

that there are safe and cost-effective games for all parties.

Macklin McCall : I appreciate the response from the minister. That doesn’t exactly answer the question,

and I just want to expand on it, because I think this is a very important point to

ensure we have correct.

I know and I understand that nationally, outside of British Columbia, more resources

are being brought in. I’m going to put those aside and not focus on those in my question.

I just want to focus specifically on British Columbia resources.

Yes, the VPD are the police of jurisdiction. We’ll exclude the VPD and municipal police.

I just want to focus on RCMP — more specifically, as the minister said, the provincial

RCMP. So provincial resources, as E division of B.C. RCMP, will be pulling resources

to deploy into Vancouver. That’s essentially what the minister said.

I want to focus specifically on the provincial RCMP officers and then kind of segue

back into the original question, just for clarity’s sake. I’m hoping the minister

can provide an answer specific to this.

With respect to those provincial RCMP officers, the minister confirmed that resources

from those detachments and those provincial units, whatever E division decides to

do, will be pulling resources to Vancouver. That means there’ll be vacancies across

the province at those RCMP detachments to deal with the event in Vancouver.

My original question…. And I’ll ask it again with that. I explained it a little more,

so hopefully it makes more sense in terms of the E division resources.

What’s being done to ensure that those detachments across British Columbia that are

giving up resources to go to Vancouver — that they have resources, enough police,

to adequately police those communities and that those municipalities that are providing

provincial police officers are not…? What is the province doing to ensure that those

municipalities aren’t covering overtime costs and all of the other things that will

be associated to adequately police those provincial detachments?

[3:20 p.m. - 3:25 p.m.]

Hon. Nina Krieger : Thank you to the member opposite for the question.

I think the response really reflects the strength of the RCMP in that they have profound

expertise and deep experience in ensuring safety for large-scale events while also

ensuring safety in communities and balancing that essential work of being able to

be responsive to emerging needs, responsive in the case of an emergency, for instance,

while also maintaining adequate and effective policing in communities.

The RCMP has given assurances that they will ensure that there will be adequate members

in communities to ensure adequate and effective policing.

The oversight of that is really core to the work that we do at the Ministry of Public

Safety and Solicitor General in terms of our superintendents of policing. That happens

in a very deep and ongoing way in terms of the superintendents and the assessment

of any vacancies, for instance, or any shift in members to other jurisdictions.

That work is essential to ensuring that we deliver safe games and cost-effective games.

The RCMP’s key role in this, and its ability to play such a key role in the safety

for the games themselves and also the safety for British Columbians broadly, is really

integral to our planning for the FIFA World Cup.

Macklin McCall : That doesn’t really answer my question. I appreciate the answer from the minister.

My question really was specifically about…. I know RCMP members are going to be moved

around. I know that will be happening. It was specifically about the municipality.

When officers are taken from the municipality to put them in Vancouver…. If you have

ten RCMP officers in any community, let’s say, and two of those officers go to Vancouver,

there are now two officers missing.

So the policing…. And even the minister spoke of wildfires and policing. I mean, it’s

going to be in June. It’s going to be pretty busy. Those policing needs will probably

increase. They’re probably not going to be going down.

Now, let’s say two officers have left. That municipality still has the policing needs,

but they’re missing two officers, so those officers have to be replaced. I’m quite

confident the RCMP could find bodies to fill that, but my question really is about

who’s paying for that. Does the province cover those costs because the province is

taking their officers from the municipality, or do the municipality and taxpayers

in said community have to pay the cost because the province is pulling those RCMP

resources away?

So can the minister just clarify that, specifically about the cost for those officers

and if it’s on the backs of taxpayers in that municipality or if the province is paying

for those officers.

[3:30 p.m. - 3:35 p.m.]

Hon. Nina Krieger : Thank you very much to the member opposite.

First, I want to underscore the importance of…. Any decisions around shifting resources

between communities is underpinned by the RCMP’s commitment to maintaining adequate

and effective policing in communities and the role of the ministry in superintending

that and ensuring that there is indeed adequate and effective levels of policing in

communities.

For the deployment of officers, specifically for the FIFA World Cup, there is an approach,

a very detailed approach, to shifting for officers that is in place to really mitigate

against and minimize the possibilities of overtime.

Any considerations related to the movement of any resources is laid out in the policing

agreement that the municipality has signed onto. So there would not be any surprises

for the municipality in terms of a number of officers that would be deployed or in

terms of any costs that would be incurred by the municipalities. That agreement is

core to the cost and considerations relating to any movement of officers from a municipality

to another community.

[3:40 p.m.]

Macklin McCall : Thank you for the response from the minister. I would have a follow-up question with

this, and I have a few others that I would like to go into. However, I just want to

say something with respect to what the minister said.

Thank you for the response, but I don’t believe that’s entirely accurate, and I would

be asking more questions to really clarify this. As I said in my introduction, my

opening…. I did state, and I wanted to say, that I was actually part of a provincial

unit with the tac team, with the riot police, and was moved all over the province

and know that very well.

I know that not all are RCMP detachments. We have municipal. We have provincial. I

know that there are often some concerns where RCMP members are moved. I would like

to go deeper into that question, just to summarize, basically, what I could say on

this. But I’m not going to have the time to do that right now because I want to be

respectful to my colleague, the MLA for Surrey-Panorama.

I just really want to quickly summarize. It’s been two hours that we’ve been speaking

here, specifically on FIFA. At no time with my questions have I received any real

numbers with respect to the budget.

I did indicate some numbers in my opening, and that’s been really it. I do understand

the complexities of such a major event, and I agree with the minister on that. However,

I haven’t really had a lot of answers with respect to dollars. This is budget estimates,

and there’s been none of that.

I’m hoping, because the minister has said that there isn’t anything as of right now….

That’s what I get from what the minister has indicated. We’re five weeks out from

FIFA, and we are a few weeks away until the report from the Minister of Tourism, so

I’m hoping that there’s some more information here with respect to the costs and the

breakdown of security for FIFA.

But as I said, I want to pass it over to the MLA for Surrey-Panorama.

The Chair : Thank you, Member.

Recognizing Surrey-Panorama.

Bryan Tepper : Hon. Chair, thank you very much. I appreciate that.

Before I continue with my questions, I think it’s important that this House understand

the perspective I bring to this debate.

I’m the MLA for Surrey-Panorama, but before I was elected to serve the people of British

Columbia in this chamber, I served them as a member of the Royal Canadian Mounted

Police. I didn’t learn about policing from briefing notes. I learned about it on the

streets of Surrey and the interior lands of the Williams Lake detachment. I served

in E division in a counterterrorism unit, working to keep British Columbians safe

from some of the most serious threats our province has faced.

I worked with the drug

section in Surrey, investigating organized crime networks,

dismantling drug operations and understanding how these criminal enterprises function

from the inside. I worked in various plainclothes roles in Surrey during the gang

conflict. I was on the ground during some of the most violent periods in Surrey’s

history.

I know these networks. I know how they recruit. I know how they operate. I know their

tactics, their structures and their vulnerabilities.

I retired as a sergeant in the Surrey RCMP, not behind a desk in Victoria but leading

officers on the front line of one of the most challenging policing environments in

Canada.

I was in charge of a district office in Guildford, engaging directly with the community.

I sat down with business owners, with families, with community leaders. I listened

to their concerns. I worked with them to find solutions. I built the relationships

that are essential to effective policing.

I partook in quality assurance reviews for Surrey detachment, auditing the files,

practices and policy of the largest RCMP detachment in Canada. That means I reviewed

complex investigations, assessed operational procedures, identified systemic gaps

and ensured accountability. I didn’t just do police work. I evaluated it at the highest

level.

Perhaps most relevantly to this chamber, I served as treasurer of the Mounted Police

Professional Association of Canada when we took the government to court for the right

to associate, and we won.

[3:45 p.m.]

I understand the intersection of policing and politics. I understand what happens

when governments make decisions that affect front-line officers without understanding

the operational realities.

When I ask questions about policing, about organized crime, about community safety,

about the gang and extortion crisis affecting our communities, I’m asking from a foundation

of direct, hands-on experience. I’ve worked counterterrorism. I’ve investigated drug

trafficking. I’ve disrupted gang operations. I’ve led officers. I’ve engaged communities.

I’ve audited the largest detachment in the country.

I know what works and what doesn’t. I know the difference between political announcements

and operational capacity. I know the difference between authorized positions and boots

on the ground. I know the difference between a task force that gets results and a

task force that gets press coverage.

I bring that experience to this House not to grandstand but to ensure the decisions

we make here are grounded in operational reality, not political convenience. The people

of Surrey and the people of British Columbia deserve evidence-based policy informed

by people who have actually done the work. That’s the standard I hold myself to, and

that’s the standard I expect from this government.

While I always strive for collegial discussion, I understand that this might get a

little bit spicy. I do understand that a lot of these problems came from the current

Minister of Transportation when he was Solicitor General and we had this transition

in Surrey that was a real problem.

I have a lot of questions. I did give the minister a heads-up on a lot of the numbers

that we may need, so hopefully, we can move just a little bit quicker while we’re

doing this.

My first question would be: how many provincial RCMP officers do we have in B.C.?

Hon. Nina Krieger : Could I ask the member to repeat the question at the very end?

Bryan Tepper : How many provincial RCMP officers do we have in B.C.?

[3:50 p.m.]

Hon. Nina Krieger : Thank you very much to the member for the question.

The number of established members in the provincial RCMP as of January 1, 2026, is

2,400, and this does not include the provincial unit that is providing supports in

Surrey during the police transition.

Bryan Tepper : How many positions did we have ten years ago?

Hon. Nina Krieger : Just hoping for clarification on whether the member is referring to the established

members ten years ago or the authorized strength ten years ago.

Bryan Tepper : I’d like to go with the authorized strength from both numbers, if that would be convenient.

[3:55 p.m.]

Hon. Nina Krieger : Thank you to the member opposite for the question.

The provincial annex, which was established as part of the 2012 provincial police

service agreement, authorized 2,602 provincial members, and this number has remained

the same since 2012.

It’s important to note, though, that while the authorized strength of the PPS has

not changed, the province has made significant investments to ensure that that authorized

strength is funded to its full complement — this was a significant advance that has

been made — and that strategic and targeted investments have been made into provincewide

teams, such as the provincial support team, the emergency response team, the major

crimes unit, that provide really important and necessary capacity and expertise that

supports community safety across our province.

Bryan Tepper : Thank you for the answer.

The 2,602 — there have been a few questions in question period and in the media where

this minister has said that we’ve expanded and put in record amounts of spending into

policing, into expanding that number. But if the number is the same, can I get an

explanation as to how we’ve spent, from what I gather, double the amount of money

but still have the same authorized strength?

[4:00 p.m.]

Hon. Nina Krieger : I believe the comments that the member referred to that have been made previously

in question periods and other discussions have not been that we have expanded the

authorized strength. My previous answer spoke to the authorized strength being at

that same level of 2,602.

What I have spoken about are the significant steps that we have taken to ensure that

the authorized strength is funded to its full complement. This is that historic $230

million investment that I’ve often spoken about in this House, which has rolled out

over three years as part of the province’s safer communities action plan. This investment

was really about addressing long-standing staffing gaps, particularly in rural and

remote communities, and we’ve had a chance in this House to talk about the distinct

needs of rural and remote communities.

This investment is to address those vacancies and also to either stand up or to expand

specialized investigative units. Even though we have seen rising inflation and investigative

costs, the provincial police service is now close to its full authorized strength,

with 256 additional members and 80 additional support staff that have now been hired.

This is significant work, so I don’t agree with the member’s characterization that

there has been no change in terms of the policing levels in the province.

I’d like to speak about what this looks like on the ground in communities. Really,

we have increased the resources, as I’ve noted, for rural and remote communities.

As an example, 16 members have been added to provincial units across 15 communities,

ranging from Agassiz to Vanderhoof.

Substantial additions in serious and organized crime in 2018 were made, such as additions

to the Combined Forces Special Enforcement Unit, which is the largest integrated unit

in Canada directed to combatting organized crime, and also in units such as the anti-human

trafficking unit, the illegal firearms enforcement unit and also the work of the uniform

gang enforcement team.

We’ve also added 40 front-line members in 2019 in provincial units across 22 communities

in our province, from Burns Lake all the way to 100 Mile and Agassiz.

These are really significant investments, and I’m happy to go into further detail,

that really have brought the level of police in communities — ensuring that we have

safe, thriving communities — to higher levels than they have ever been.

Bryan Tepper : Thank you to the minister. I think I understand that a previous minister, it sounds

like, had not funded these positions, and now we are actually getting funding for

them. I understand that. It works out very well.

I want to change gears a little bit and go to the Surrey police service. In 2019,

I was looking at the transition, once again, that was overseen by the current Minister

of Transportation, funny enough, who said this would be, I believe, a three-year transition.

I was looking at it and looking from the outside, figuring it looked like, at the

current recruitment rate they had, a 12-year process. Well, we are now at eight years,

and we are not there yet — eight years of this transition.

Are we on a faster

schedule than my 2019 projection of 12 years, or are we tracking

slower than that?

[4:05 p.m. - 4:10 p.m.]

Hon. Nina Krieger : Thank you for the question about the Surrey transition, the transition from the RCMP

to the Surrey police service, which, as the member knows, was initiated by the former

mayor of Surrey and is unprecedented in terms of its scale and, really, in all aspects

of this transition.

The transition continues towards completion, with the SPS now as the city’s police

agency of jurisdiction and also supported by the RCMP, which is providing temporary

transitional assistance. There have never been more officers deployed than there are

currently in Surrey.

The transition completion really depends on the SPS expanding gradually to assume

all remaining policing responsibilities in Surrey while the RCMP safely demobilizes

in a measured manner that ensures continued stability in Surrey and broadly in B.C.

The provincial oversight and superintendence of the transition continues. That really

is the province’s role — one of superintendence and oversight. We are working with

all parties. The city, SPS, the RCMP have all been at the table and continue to be

at the table so that the transition can be completed in a timely manner, with safety

for the residents of Surrey as our North Star. Our commitment has been clear and steadfast

that we will ensure that Surrey residents and officers are safe throughout the transition.

Bryan Tepper : As of January 25, 2025…. I think that’s supposed to be 2026, actually. The number

the minister’s office had provided was 485 sworn Surrey police service officers.

Do we know how many there are as of today? I think you said they would have that number

for today.

The Chair : Member, the team has requested a brief five-minute recess. We are going to take this

chamber into recess for five minutes, and we’ll be right back.

The committee recessed from 4:15 p.m. to 4:23 p.m.

[Lorne Doerkson in the chair.]

The Chair : Members, we’ll call the chamber back to order where we are contemplating the estimates

of the Ministry of Public Safety. The minister is just taking some time to answer

a question that was posed before our recess.

Hon. Nina Krieger : The most recent figure I’m able to share now is from April 1, 2026, and it includes

soft vacancies and recruits in training. There were 850 local police officers in Surrey,

and of these, 626 are SPS, and 223 are RCMP members assigned to provide temporary

assistance.

[4:25 p.m.]

Macklin McCall : I’ve got a question about the breakdown of SPS by rank. Perhaps I could just ask:

does the minister have the numbers for those? If they don’t, I don’t want to waste

too much time on that.

Hon. Nina Krieger : I am able to share these numbers. There are 33 inspectors to chief constables — these

are commissioned officers — 138 staff sergeants and sergeants and 454 constables,

and this number includes just over 50 recruits that are currently in JIBC training.

This adds up to 625, and then the difference to 626 is made up by the chief constable.

Bryan Tepper : Thank you very much for that answer.

I’m just checking, and I’m going to, again, try and speed this up a little bit because

I did ask for the Vancouver numbers as well.

To skip all of the rest of it and get right down to it, the number’s slightly different

from what was provided to me earlier on from another source, but very close. About

65 percent of the Surrey police service is constables,

whereas you go to the Vancouver

police department and 82½ percent of their force becomes constables.

[4:30 p.m.]

So my question, I guess, would be: is anybody overseeing who’s getting hired and why

we’re basically so top-heavy and lacking in constables to actually do a lot of the

front-line work in Surrey?

Hon. Nina Krieger : I do appreciate the question.

Both the Vancouver police department and Surrey police service do work policing very

large urban communities. I do think it is important, though, to keep in mind that

SPS is really a new and an evolving police service.

I think the balance between staffing that the member noted really reflects the need

and the reality of building a police service from the ground up. That means ensuring

that there are the appropriate policies and structures and training. That structure

needs to be there, and it continues to be relied upon as SPS continues to grow.

In terms of oversight, under the Police Act, the board plays a key role in ensuring

oversight and accountability to the public as well.

Bryan Tepper : I do appreciate that answer — a minister that does recognize the reality of growing

a police force. So that answer is more than welcome, because clearly, it was not the

original thought when this force was put into place through this government.

Again, thank you for that answer.

I’d like to now turn to police training capacity. I think we’ve got a little bit of

a disturbing pattern of, again, why we don’t have the constables coming through like

we should.

[4:35 p.m.]

I will ask…. The Justice Institute was able to graduate 192 officers in 2024. In 2025,

we were told the capacity would be raised to 288 officers. So has that capacity increase

been achieved?

Hon. Nina Krieger : The short answer to the question is yes, and this is work that I think we’re particularly

proud of. I hear from police of jurisdiction, I hear from municipal leaders, from

community members about the challenges around recruitment and retention of officers.

Endeavouring to be responsive to what we were hearing was really behind our province’s

investment of $4 million to expand the training at the JIBC by 50 percent for the

2025-26 academic year from 192 to 288 officers. That was realized through the one-time

investment.

Some of that investment included infrastructure that the JIBC was able to leverage

further to further increase the Police Academy class size from 96 to 144. This means

that as many as 432 trained police recruits will graduate from the academy in any

given year. I’m pleased that the first expanded class will, in fact, begin on Monday.

This really reflects, I think, strong partnership and real work between the JIBC,

between municipal police agencies, chiefs, boards and police associations, and really

is important to ensuring that we have trained recruits to serve communities across

the province.

[4:40 p.m.]

Bryan Tepper : Thank you for that answer.

I have several questions, but again, in the spirit of speeding things up and not waiting

for the answers, I went back and analyzed the JIBC officer assignments from January

2024 to May 2025. The Vancouver police department asked for 91 officers. They were

assigned 80, so 88 percent of what they requested. Surrey police service asked for

75 officers, and they were only able to assign them 46 officers. That’s 61 percent

of their request.

Minister, if the VPD is receiving 88 percent, while SPS — which is, as we’re talking

about, still building up to operational strength — only receives 61 percent, can you

explain why SPS is being shortchanged when they need the service of the officers most

urgently? Who makes that decision?

Hon. Nina Krieger : The JIBC determines the seat allocation. I think the numbers that the member’s referring

to aren’t quite current.

Part of the reason for that $4 million investment in the expansion of seats at the

JIBC, which was…. Really, the catalyst for that was the JIBC, the province, municipal

departments, and it really reflected a joint effort. We were considering, in that

investment, the needs of SPS, certainly, as a growing department, and also the needs

of departments across the province. We know that there are many officers who are retiring,

for instance, and that informs the training requirements in jurisdictions.

I’m really pleased to confirm that with the expansion I just walked through in my

previous answer, now JIBC has the capacity to meet the request of every police department

that is training officers at the JIBC.

Bryan Tepper : Thank you for the answer. That kind of throws off my question a little bit, because

I was going to ask about the expanded training facilities that are allowed for Vancouver

and Victoria.

If the JIBC can now meet the needs of the municipal detachments, why are we expanding

the other two?

[4:45 p.m.]

If there’s a reason for that, why are we not allowing Surrey, as a growing force,

to have their own training facility?

Hon. Nina Krieger : Thank you for the question. Really such an important area to dig into — the training

requirements of police agencies and the work that we’re doing to help meet those.

The two pilots that the member referenced for satellite campuses in Victoria and Vancouver

have really been conceived of as pilots to address the surge capacity needs for Victoria

and Vancouver policing.

When we announced these…. It really is a historic move forward to have satellite campuses

tethered to the Justice Institute to maintain the high quality of instruction and

ensure that consistent standards and practices are there across the board.

Chief Constable Wilson of the VicPD referenced in the announcement…. The Victoria

satellite campus of the JI will serve not only the Victoria police department but

also other police departments on the Island.

One of the deterrents for prospective officers was leaving their homes, their communities,

to travel to New Westminster to participate in the JIBC training. Being able to offer

training closer to home was a significant barrier that was reduced to address the

recruitment needs of Island communities.

Then what the decision to approve the satellite campuses in Victoria and Vancouver

did is also offer up more space should the SPS need this.

[4:50 p.m.]

We had conversations with the city of Surrey about their proposal to potentially host

a satellite campus and ultimately determined that opening space within the Justice

Institute itself would provide the adequate spaces to meet SPS’s needs and also not

put an additional burden on the SPS, which, as we’ve just discussed, is a growing

police service.

So we’ve arrived at a quite compelling and, I do think, historic, never-been-done

solution to complementing the work of the JIBC, ensuring that the needs of SPS can

be met and also allowing Victoria and Vancouver to really surge capacity at this time.

Bryan Tepper : Okay. Thank you for that answer.

I mean, really, from that answer, it sounds a lot like JIBC isn’t quite getting there

to meeting SPS’s training needs. Given that we’ve just announced VPD would be allowed

to train their own officers, why won’t we allow Surrey to train their own officers?

And, I would say, is your refusal to allow SPS to train their own officers an indication

that you lack faith in the SPS and the previous NDP ministers who created this transition?

I will say I have no doubts about the officers and the members that work in any of

our police detachments — all fabulous. It’s a system that we’re now fighting to get

this policing under control in each and every one of ours. It’s just that Surrey happens

to be the epicentre of the experiment and why we’re dealing with it.

Hon. Nina Krieger : Could the member just restate the question, please?

Bryan Tepper : So if we just go right to that, is the refusal to allow SPS to train their own officers

an indication of lack of faith in the SPS and the previous NDP ministers who created

this transition?

[4:55 p.m.]

Hon. Nina Krieger : As we’ve spoken about SPS and their training requirements, I think I’ve had the opportunity

to emphasize just how truly historic, large-scale, complex this transition has been,

essentially standing up — we are at year 5 — a new police service in a large urban

area. This is significant work.

On the training front, I think it’s important to note that the expansion of the JIBC,

expanding capacity now twice, that I’ve noted, provides the requirements for training

seats that Surrey has. The JIBC, with the additional capacity, has been able to be

responsive, also, to Surrey’s incremental requests. Just recently they made a request

for an additional five training seats over and above their initial ask, and that request

was accommodated by the JIBC.

I think it’s also important to keep in mind that the satellite training campus that

has been approved as a pilot in Victoria and in Vancouver is not an independent academy

as much as truly a satellite campus that is strongly tethered to the Justice Institute

in terms of curriculum and standards. So I don’t think the member’s characterization

of this as a refusal to train officers quite aligns with what I’ve been able to touch

on.

Really, the approach to training that we are taking for the province is endeavouring

to be very responsive to the needs of communities, and that absolutely must include

and does include Surrey as a very significant force being established right now.

Bryan Tepper : Thank you for the answer.

Well, basically, from the outside, it sure looks like the minister is downloading

the costs of the transition to the city of Surrey for what has become a complete fiasco

and not fair to the members on the road and running that detachment and policing that

city. Eight years in, we’re not done yet.

My property tax notice wants to know: when will this transition be complete?

[5:00 p.m.]

Hon. Nina Krieger : I’m not sure I agree with the characterization that the member made about the shifting

of costs per se, because the Police Act, per

section 15, states that the city of Surrey

is responsible for all the costs of its policing within its municipal boundaries.

This means that the city is responsible for all policing costs, including the costs

of implementing its police transition.

The province, though, has committed significant funds, $150 million over five years,

to help with transition costs. Now four of the five districts have been transitioned,

and the transition continues with the RCMP and the SPS working together. All parties

— including the province, the federal government, the RCMP and the city of Surrey

— are at the table, have been at the table and remain at the table to ensure a timely

and safe completion of the transition.

Bryan Tepper : Speaking of transitioning, I will transition into another topic here with policing

involved.

Five months ago, probably closer to six months ago now, there was testimony in the

House of Commons that stated there were 50,000 people in Canada who were non-compliant

with immigration orders, meaning they should be removed from the country. We also

learned there are approximately 32,000 active deportation warrants in Canada.

[5:05 p.m.]

Given the open-source intelligence and real-world evidence that show that many perpetrators

of extortion are foreign students here fraudulently or individuals already subject

to deportation orders, I feel this should be a priority.

My question is: how many of those 50,000 immigration-non-compliant individuals are

estimated to be in British Columbia?

[5:10 p.m.]

Hon. Nina Krieger : Thanks to the member for the question. I know we’re transitioning the discussion

from a focus on the SPS to the most recent question you asked.

I did want to briefly comment on the member’s characterization of the Surrey transition

and underscore how hard SPS has been working, the RCMP has been working, the officers

of the SPS, the police board, on this truly unprecedented transition. And I think

we’re very fortunate to have the engagement of all of the parties at the table working

towards the same goal, I believe, which is safe communities in Surrey.

In terms of the member’s question around the regional breakdown, that is not information

that we would have. But that’s something that you could seek from Immigration, Refugees

and Citizenship Canada, so those would be federal figures.

But I think a bit of the subtext of the member’s question spoke to the involvement

of people that are not in Canada lawfully and some of the extortion crimes that we’ve

seen in Surrey and communities south of the Fraser here in B.C., recognizing that

those crimes have a local impact and also are happening across Canada and do have

a transnational impact.

Recognition of that was behind our decision to involve Canada Border Services Agency

in the B.C. extortion task force from the very beginning, and their work has been

integral to the results that we are seeing, with 25 individuals now removed from Canada,

over 110 under investigation.

I can confirm that this number of 25 is now higher and that CBSA will be providing

an update with updated figures next week. But certainly, CBSA is very key to our enforcement

efforts to combat extortion in Surrey.

Bryan Tepper : Chair, given that the minister, when talking about extortions, said how closely the

staff is working with the federal counterparts, and this being an issue that would

lend to some sort of discussion, you would think….

I will say I did ask. And the response, earlier on, that I got was that it was a federal

matter. But when I heard this story, I was very curious to look for the answer, so

I was hoping that the minister would also be looking for this answer so that police

resources in British Columbia could be directed towards dealing with some of these

deportations or overstays that are in place.

The minister is asking the people of Surrey to live under threat of firebombs, shootings,

extortions. Intelligence does tell us that most of the criminals involved are here

illegally or have the active warrants out for them, and I can’t be told the ministerial

staff has not briefed the minister on how many there are. And now we’ve got the people

in B.C. living like this.

My question being: how do we justify not looking into that issue and directing the

police to help deal with it?

[5:15 p.m.]

Hon. Nina Krieger : I do think the question implies that there is not appropriate, adequate leveraging

or advocacy or integration of federal resources and areas of responsibility. To be

clear, I think the work that the member refers to isn’t necessarily the role of police

here in our communities but it is the work of our federal partners, of Canada Border

Services Agency.

That is why their involvement in the extortion task force is so key, allowing police

to focus on their work, their investigative work, where the CBSA is able to focus

on the removals that are contributing to significant developments in extortion cases.

We have, at every instance, engaged our federal counterparts in providing additional

resources in terms of officers. There’s been a significant increase in the number

of CBSA representatives on the B.C. extortion task force since its inception to present

day. That work is important and essential.

[5:20 p.m.]

I’ve also been able to do some important advocacy to the federal government in terms

of legislation, Bill C-12, and really urging the federal government to close loopholes

in Canada’s immigration system that have been exploited by people engaged with extortion.

I do agree, I think, with the member that we need to work very closely in a very coordinated

and responsive way with our partners across all levels of policing and government.

I move that the committee rise and report progress and ask leave to sit again.

Motion approved.

The committee rose at 5:21 p.m.

The House resumed at 5:21 p.m.

[The Speaker in the chair.]

Lorne Doerkson : Committee of Supply,

Section B, reports progress of the estimates of the Ministry

of Public Safety and Solicitor General and asks leave to sit again.

Leave granted.

Jennifer Blatherwick : Committee of Supply,

Section A reports progress on the estimates of the Ministry

of Transportation and Transit and asks leave to sit again.

Leave granted.

Darlene Rotchford : Committee of Supply,

Section C, reports progress on the estimates of the Ministry

of Jobs and Economic Growth and asks leave to sit again.

Leave granted.

Hon. Jessie Sunner moved adjournment of the House.

Motion approved.

The Speaker : This House stands adjourned until ten o’clock, Tuesday, May 19.

The House adjourned at 5:22 p.m.

Proceedings in the

Douglas Fir Room

The House in Committee,

Section A.

The committee met at 1:15 p.m.

[Steve Morissette in the chair.]

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of

Transportation and Transit

(continued)

The Chair : Good afternoon, Members. I call the Committee of Supply for the Ministry of Transportation

and Transit to order. We are meeting today to continue the consideration of the budget

estimates of the Ministry of Transportation and Transit.

On Vote 45: ministry operations, $1,196,576,000 (continued) .

Harman Bhangu : I want to turn towards B.C. Ferries fares. The province provided a $500 million investment

to limit fare increases over the current performance term. That funding was intended

to prevent significant higher increases, with the ferry commissioner confirming that,

without it, fares could have risen by approximately 9.2 percent annually. Instead,

fares have increased by an average of 3.2 percent annually, beginning April 2024.

At the same time, B.C. Ferries has introduced discounted fare options intended to

provide savings for customers who travel off-peak times or book in advance. However,

fares are still increasing, year over year, and the current performance term has a

defined endpoint. While increases have been moderated in the short term, a longer-term

trajectory of fares remains uncertain, which raises straightforward questions.

What can the ferry users expect beyond the current performance term? What assumptions

is the province currently using for fare increases in the next performance term beginning

in 2028?

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I appreciate the question from the member.

I would make these observations. The province doesn’t make assumptions in terms of

what the fare increases will be. That is the job of B.C. Ferries and the ferries commissioner.

B.C. Ferries operates as an independent entity under the Coastal Ferry Act. They work

with the ferries commissioner, and they’ve got the authority and the board that make

those decisions and prepare the assumptions for potential fares and fare increases.

Harman Bhangu : Can the minister confirm whether fare increases are expected to rise above the current

levels once the $500 million provincial support concludes?

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I appreciate the question from the member.

Performance term 7 is what B.C. Ferries is working on now, in terms of the assumptions

that they’re going to need to make in terms of what potential fares look like into

that performance term. That’s the work that they are currently undertaking.

They have made clear that, like most industries and many transportation industries,

they are facing cost pressures. Our expectation is that they will work to minimize

those cost pressures and make sure that they’re doing that work so as to minimize

impacts to ferry travellers.

Harman Bhangu : What discussions have taken place with B.C. Ferries or the commissioner regarding

ferry trajectories beyond the current performance term?

[1:20 p.m.]

Hon. Mike Farnworth : Performance term 7 needs to be submitted to the commissioner in September. That’s

the work that B.C. Ferries is doing.

There have been discussions, obviously, between the ferry corporation, the board,

the authority and the commissioner. I’m aware of those discussions taking place. I

know that B.C. Ferries is doing that work to have in place the performance term 7

document, which will go to the ferries commissioner in September.

Harman Bhangu : What measures is the province considering to ensure ferry users are not facing significantly

higher fare increases after 2028?

Hon. Mike Farnworth : That’s the work that’s underway right now by B.C. Ferries in terms of performance

term 7, which starts in 2028. One of the key things that we expect them to be doing

is to look at efficiencies internally in terms of being able to mitigate any potential

impacts that that may have.

Again, that’s why the report that they submit to the commissioner will be crucial

in determining what happens when that PT7 starts in 2028, which is just over two years

from now.

Harman Bhangu : Can the minister confirm the current average annual fare increase being applied during

this performance term?

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I thank the member for the question. The average fare increase in PT6 is what we

are in right now. That increase, as set by the ferry commissioner, has been about

3.2 percent.

Harman Bhangu : What has been the cumulative increase in ferry fares since April 2024?

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I appreciate the question from the member. It’s 3.2 in 2024 and 3.2 in 2025.

[1:25 p.m.]

Harman Bhangu : How much has the $500 million provincial contribution reduced fare increases on a

per-user basis?

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I appreciate the question from the member.

I can really only give you the overall, as opposed to the individual, because part

of it depends on the ticket, what class you went. You know, are you a driver, car,

truck, senior, reserved, discount — all of those things. But overall, from 9.2 percent

down to 3.2 percent.

Harman Bhangu : How does the province define affordability when ferry fares continue to increase,

year over year?

Hon. Mike Farnworth : There are a number of ways in which we can define or recognize that B.C. Ferries

is an affordable transportation system for people.

One has obviously been the $500 million put to help keep fares low and affordable.

If you look at B.C. Ferries rate structures compared to international ferries in other

parts of the world, particularly for a ferry fleet of its size — B.C. Ferries is one

of the largest ferry fleets globally — it is very affordable compared to many other

jurisdictions, particularly Europe, for example, or even the States.

We restored the seniors discount in 2019, so the seniors travel free mid-week. We

have discounts for people with disabilities and for students.

There are a lot of things that B.C. Ferries has done to make travel on the ferries

affordable, and I expect we’ll continue to do just that.

Harman Bhangu : Even with the $500 million and everything, fares seem to keep on increasing.

I want to move on to the procurement aspect of this. Turning to B.C. Ferries, the

process for acquiring new vessels began with a request of a fleet renewal and a review

by the independent ferries commissioner.

[1:30 p.m.]

That process included an extension to allow additional information to be submitted

and ultimately resulted in a decision to approve the purchase of four new vessels

rather than five. Following that decision, B.C. Ferries proceeded with a procurement

and ultimately awarded a contract to build those vessels overseas, including in China.

That outcome has drawn attention to how procurement decisions are made, particularly

when major components of publicly supported infrastructure are constructed outside

of Canada. At the same time, the province has emphasized that B.C. Ferries operates

independently and that procurement decisions are made through a global process.

However, the province is also a major funder of B.C. Ferries operation and capital

plans, with significant public investment committed to maintaining service and supporting

fleet renewal.

So what we have is a situation where the decision-making process is independent, the

procurement outcomes include construction in China, and the financial support is public,

which raises an important question. What role does government play in shaping outcomes

when public dollars are involved?

My question. Can the minister confirm the timeline of events from the ferries commissioner

extension to the final approval of the four vessels?

Hon. Mike Farnworth : To the member, I’ll just say….

Look, B.C. Ferries is not directly reportable to me, but what we can do is get the

information from the commissioner to confirm the timeline that you’re talking about.

I’m happy to do that.

Harman Bhangu : Thank you, Minister. I look forward to that response.

What factors led the ferry commissioner to approve four vessels rather than five?

[1:35 p.m.]

Hon. Mike Farnworth : The ferry commissioner makes her decision on a combination of factors. One is financial

information provided by B.C. Ferries and also additional information by B.C. Ferries

— capacity and their overall strategy. It is made independently of the province and

does not include input from the province.

Harman Bhangu : Can the minister confirm that the new B.C. Ferries vessels will be constructed in

China?

Hon. Mike Farnworth : Yes, that is my understanding.

Harman Bhangu : What role, if any, did the province play in reviewing or responding to the decision

to construct these vessels in China, following the commissioner’s approval?

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I would say I expressed my disappointment, and I think I was quite vocal in that.

The procurement process by B.C. Ferries is independent and is done — in terms of the

number of ships, for example — through the ferry commissioner. But I made clear my

disappointment in the procurement decision.

Harman Bhangu : What due diligence was undertaken with respect to the selection of a shipyard in

China?

Hon. Mike Farnworth : It’s my understanding that there was an extensive international procurement process

underway — it took place before I became minister — that involved international companies

globally as well. That would have reviewed their records, their abilities in terms

of their history, their competency, all of those things, being able to provide what

B.C. Ferries required. I know that they would have talked with Ottawa as well, for

example. It would have been a pretty extensive, intensive process.

Harman Bhangu : Did the province assess the economic impact of constructing these vessels in China

rather than Canada?

[1:40 p.m.]

Hon. Mike Farnworth : This is an independent process through B.C. Ferries. The province does not have a

direct role in that. It’s Ferries with the information provided to the commission

in terms of the number of ships they want to have built. Ferries is the one that does

that procurement process, and they do so as an independent body, independent of government.

Harman Bhangu : What consideration was given to Canadian or British Columbian shipyards before proceeding

with construction in China?

Hon. Mike Farnworth : Thank you to the member for that question.

What I can tell you is that it was an open process, and Canadian shipyards were invited

to bid on those shipbuilding contracts.

Harman Bhangu : Can the minister confirm the cost difference between constructing these vessels in

China versus other options?

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I appreciate the question from the member.

What I can tell you is that if they had gone with the next non-European country or

other European countries that applied, that entered the procurement competition, the

next bid was up to $1.2 billion more.

Harman Bhangu : What analysis was conducted to determine whether lower upfront costs associated with

construction in China outweighed broader economic considerations?

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I appreciate the question from the member.

What we understand about the process that B.C. Ferries engaged in was an extensive

analysis on a whole range of issues that went into determining the scope and the size

of the procurement process. B.C. Ferries indicated that the next…. It was up to $1.2

billion more to build them in another jurisdiction.

Harman Bhangu : How does the province reconcile its significant financial support for B.C. Ferries

with the outcome that these vessels are being constructed in China?

[1:45 p.m.]

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I appreciate the question from the member. I understand what the member is saying.

I’d like to see ships built here as much as possible. I know B.C. Ferries wanted and

wants to get ships here as fast as possible. That was a key component, we understand,

of their procurement process.

One of the issues, which is a challenge right now but also an opportunity for us,

is the shipyard capacity here in B.C. and in Vancouver. They’re full. They’re full

building the Coast Guard ships. They’re full building the naval ships, and that’s

occupying a significant amount of time. So there’s a challenge in the capacity to

be able to get the ferries you would want here. The public wants them now.

That being said, the fact that there is that much work underway, I think, gives capacity

in terms of being able to establish over the longer term the ability to provide ships

here, which is one of the reasons why we have been working closely and are working

closely with Ottawa on a national shipbuilding strategy.

That’s not being done through this ministry but through the Ministry of Jobs, for

example, working with them on how we ensure the long-term, sustainable shipbuilding

industry here in Canada, where B.C. is a key component. Right now you’ve got the Seaspan

shipyards in the harbour. You’ve got the Davie shipyard in Quebec. You’ve got the

Irving yard in New Brunswick.

Over that long term…. I think that’s one of the key ways in which we can ensure the

ability to build not just the Coast Guard vessels, not just the naval vessels but

that capacity to build the kinds of ships that we may need here in B.C., from a commercial

perspective, and with that I mean ferries.

Harman Bhangu : What mechanisms exist to ensure that publicly supported projects deliver economic

benefits within British Columbia when major components are constructed in China?

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I appreciate the question from the member. There are actually some significant components

that will be economic benefits here in British Columbia. One is on the maintenance

and refits, for example. That work will be done here in B.C. The other is that a lot

of the systems are procured and put in here as well.

Again, those are pretty significant financial benefits to the local economy, both

on the maintenance side of the ships — particularly over the lifespan of those ships,

that is a considerable amount of economic activity — and in the systems that go into

the ships.

Harman Bhangu : What lessons has the province taken from this process, including the decisions to

construct vessels in China, to inform future procurement decisions?

[1:50 p.m.]

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I thank the member for the question. I’ll make a couple of observations.

This contract was well underway before we saw what has been happening in the United

States with the current President and the upsetting, if you like, of the global order

but also the relationship between this country and our neighbours to the south.

So both here in British Columbia and in provinces right across the country and the

federal government in Ottawa, it is now a case of looking at how we become more self-reliant,

how we ensure that, as a country, we’re working together to get maximum benefit for

Canada. We need to be more self-reliant, not quite so dependent on our neighbours

to the south. Our supply chains and how we procure things need to have that Canadian

focus.

That’s very much why we’ve been engaged, for example, in reducing trading barriers

between provinces. It’s why, I think, the engagement and the work in terms of the

shipbuilding strategy that’s underway with Ottawa is important.

It also involves the federal government recognizing the unique challenges that we

have here in B.C. in terms of our distance, in terms of many of the key components

of construction and infrastructure. I’m digressing a little bit. We’re at one end

of the country, and a lot of the steel, for example, is produced back east. There’s

a big 3,000 miles of transportation that takes place to get that from there to here.

I think that procurement strategies for a whole range of things now are much different

than they were prior to the disruption that we’ve seen caused by the President of

the United States to the Canadian economy.

Harman Bhangu : As you know, there was that leaked report that said $2.7 billion in spinoff revenue

was lost, and $1.2 billion was saved. We also lost 8,000 to 10,000 good-paying jobs

right here in British Columbia, which could help a lot of British Columbians in this

environment where jobs are scarce. People are looking to even leave this province.

That could have been a way where someone can actually afford a living, put down some

roots.

If all we’re going to do is ship our jobs overseas and send money overseas, there

is no money circulating here. In another 60 years, we’ll be using taxpayer dollars,

again, to recycle these products. So if there are no jobs, no income circulating here,

there is no hope for the young, the youth here, to stick around here.

Also, with Seaspan…. I had met with them. They’re ahead of

schedule on their naval

ships. They actually could have been able to do it. John Horgan’s previous plan that

he had implemented in 2021, which the current Premier shifted away from, could have

actually helped us build those ships here.

I want to pass the floor off to my colleague from Prince George–North Cariboo.

The Chair : Recognizing the member for Prince George–North Cariboo.

Sheldon Clare : Thank you, Mr. Chair. It’s good to see you all bright and fresh this afternoon.

Thanks to my colleague from Langley-Abbotsford, the critic, and to the minister and

his staff for being here today.

I have a few questions. My first question is about road maintenance contract extensions

— five-year extensions. I’ll probably throw a few things in the mix together because

I think I’ll get a better answer if you have a more detailed set of queries around

the same point.

How many road maintenance contracts have received five-year extensions in the current

fiscal cycle? What is the total value of these extensions? What specific performance

metrics or contractor evaluations justified granting these extensions rather than

proceeding to open tender? In that regard, did the ministry conduct a jurisdictional

scan or cost-benefit analysis comparing extensions versus competitive rebidding?

[1:55 p.m.]

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I appreciate the question from the member.

In terms of contracts, the number of contracts is 27. There are four contracts that

did not get extensions, and 23 did. The annual value of those extensions is $492.5

million.

The extension contract process was complete in June 2025, looking at a number of factors,

including continued delivery of reliable maintenance at fair prices and deferral of

contract cost increases until the next procurement cycle in 2033.

I know the member asked about jurisdictional scans, and we do jurisdictional scans.

At the time the extensions were out, we had done jurisdictional scans in Alberta and

Ontario, for example, and we were finding out that the bids that they were getting

there at the time we were doing extensions were coming in 10 percent higher than what

they previously had been.

[2:00 p.m.]

Sheldon Clare : Thank you to the minister for the response to the question.

My next question is about the impact on the ten-year contract renewal cycle. Do these

five-year extensions effectively defer or reset the standard ten-year procurement

cycle for road maintenance areas? If so, what is the revised timeline for full, competitive

renewal of these contracts? Will future procurements be bundled or restructured as

a result of these extensions?

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I appreciate the question from the member. I’ll start with the four that did not

get extensions. Their contracts expire in various months in 2029, but we start going

to procurement for those contracts in 2027.

For the other contracts, the other 23, when they expire after the five-year extension,

then they go back into it. Then it is like the full, open procurement process again.

Sheldon Clare : What risks has the ministry identified regarding reduced competition or market concentration

due to delayed tendering? Can the minister confirm whether any legal or contractual

constraints will limit future competition because of these extensions?

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I thank the member for the question. There are ten contracting companies in the province

engaged in providing the services for us, at the present time, that the reviews outlined.

I also just want to let the member know that these original contracts included the

option for the five-year extension, so that was part of the original process in the

awarding of those contracts in the first place.

Sheldon Clare : What role does the Ministry of Transportation and Transit play in the event of positive

drug testing results for road maintenance staff and management, and does this have

any effect on reassignment of contracts?

[2:05 p.m.]

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I appreciate the question from the member. I’ll make a number of points.

One, I mean, obviously, the province…. Our expectation is that companies take safety

as the number one priority and number one critical issue.

Two, these are private companies, and these are matters that are between the company

and their employee. That being said, our expectation is that they have policies in

place to deal with these kinds of situations.

The other point I’d like to make is that there are outside bodies and agencies that

will also potentially be involved, depending on the situation. They can range from

WorkSafe to the RCMP to national regulatory bodies that deal with industry safety

standards.

All of those can come into play depending on the situation that is involved with a

particular individual, company or incident.

Sheldon Clare : Thank you for the response to the question.

My next questions are about the Cariboo Road recovery projects. Based on information

provided by the minister in last year’s ministry estimates, the Cariboo Road recovery

projects are valued at $1.2 billion. The minister also stated recently in the House

that the government is “not leaving federal money on the table.”

Considering the bulk of the Cariboo Road recovery projects have been committed to,

and the federal funding is tied to the disaster financial assistance arrangements,

will the ministry be spending the total $1.2 billion? If not, what is the projected

total spending on the Cariboo Road recovery projects, and what is the projected value

of the disaster financial assistance arrangements funding?

[2:10 p.m.]

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I appreciate the question from the member. The $1.2 billion figure was an initial

notional estimate with the feds in terms of what it looked like the projects were

going to require, how much money is going to be required to fix them. Then as the

design work takes place, they get a better, more accurate, more formalized number.

In terms of the actual cost for the recovery projects, it came in at $815 million.

That is due to a combination of factors — as I said, a better understanding of the

situation in each of the locations and also in terms of the design and the competitive

bids that came in for those projects.

Sheldon Clare : Thank you to the minister for the response to the question.

What is the estimated cost for upcoming work on the Quesnel–Hixon Road project?

Are there updated cost estimates for the Kersley–Dale Landing Road project?

Has there been any further consideration to the issues with the Durrell Road situation

and alternative routes that would support fire insurance and transportation in case

of an emergency in the Dragon Mountain area?

[2:15 p.m.]

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I appreciate the question from the member.

The Quesnel-Hixon upgrades are $40 million. That’ll be tendered later this year.

Kersley-Dale, the improvements there are also $40 million, and some of that work is

already underway.

Sheldon Clare : Thank you to the minister for the answer. I don’t think that was a complete answer

to my question, because I did ask, also, about the issue with Durrell Road. I just

wondered about that.

[2:20 p.m.]

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I appreciate the question from the member. On Durrell Road, there’s been a…. I know

the member’s interest in this particular road, and I appreciate his advocacy on behalf

of his constituents. The ministry has done extensive work into looking at the area,

what the most effective way to deal with the situation is on that slide and the challenge

that that has presented.

It is of the view that the most effective way is the road closure and turnarounds

for the residents. I know that’s not what the member wants to hear, but I will give

the member credit for going to bat for his constituents on this issue.

Sheldon Clare : Thank you for the response. I’ll continue to go to bat for my constituents, and more

of them to follow.

My next questions are about B.C.’s Highway 97 interconnector at Quesnel. The Quesnel

north-south interconnector has completed preliminary design but remains unfunded.

What specific conditions must be met for the project to advance to detailed design

and construction? Where does this project rank amongst Highway 97 priorities, given

its identification as a long-term priority in the ministry’s 2018 Quesnel transportation

study.

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I appreciate the question from the member.

Look, there are a lot of things that go into the decisions around the capital investment

program and how things get moved up the program. There are things like cost, cost

benefit, cost versus the benefit, traffic volume, safety, performance. All of those

things go into it.

There are projects all over the province. In your neck of the woods, our focus has

been very much, to date, on the reality of dealing with the slides that have occurred

and those impacts they’ve had on the existing transportation system. That’s been very

much where the focus has been.

Those are some of the things that go into determining how a project gets ranked.

[2:25 p.m.]

Sheldon Clare : Thank you for the response to the question.

I had a conversation recently with a bridge engineer who I had inspect those bridges,

along with another engineer from industry. He advised me that he spoke with the chief

bridge engineer for the province of British Columbia and told him that he did not

regard that bridge as being safe. I’m speaking of the one over the Quesnel River.

I wonder if the minister has had a conversation with the chief bridge engineer and

if he has been made aware of that safety concern.

Given that the Quesnel River Bridge and the rail overpass after it date to 1961 and

are aging, what is the ministry’s risk assessment of continued reliance on these structures

versus advancing the interconnector?

I would also mention that the bridge engineers that looked at that bridge also were

given the Freedom of Information Act request with all the bridge reports and assessments

that analyzed the safety and reliance on that bridge. They did have a good look at

it.

I guess the other aspect to the question would be: how does the ministry justify investing

in upgrades to infrastructure that may be replaced by a subsequent building of the

interconnector?

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I thank the member for the question. I have not met with the chief bridge inspector.

When you and I spoke…. I have raised that with my staff, and I’ve not yet heard back

from them.

At the same time, I also think it’s important to note that we have over 3,000 bridges

in the province. We have one of the most comprehensive and rigorous inspection routines

in the country. The bridge that you’re talking about is inspected annually. Safety

is the key priority, and the inspections we’ve had are that that bridge is safe.

Sheldon Clare : Thank you to the minister for the response to the question.

I trust that your meeting with the chief bridge inspector will be informative and

perhaps more educational as to the status of the Quesnel River Bridge, Minister. I

look forward to the results of that particular meeting because I think you’ll find

it most instructive and helpful.

[2:30 p.m.]

My next question has to do with infrastructure resilience and emergency preparedness

regarding rail. In light of recent climate-related disruptions, what funding in Budget

2026 is directed towards strengthening rail infrastructure as a resilient alternative

to highways? Has the ministry allocated funding to ensure rail corridors can support

emergency logistics and supply chain continuity during extreme events?

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I appreciate the question from the member. That is an important issue. So I’ll make

a couple of observations. We don’t invest directly with the railways. They are federal.

They are private companies, and they have significant financial resources, and track

maintenance is very much their responsibility.

That being said, we also work very closely with them on the transportation routes,

as we did during the atmospheric river, and we have a very good, strong working relationship.

For example, I have contacts with both railways. One is CP, for example. I’m informed

on a regular basis if there’s an issue involving a derailment, for example. Whether

it’s large or small, I get contacted on that.

I can tell you that when it came to Tank Hill, for example, and when the rail line

was severed, we were able to get together almost immediately with the railway, both

the province and the railway looking at innovative solutions to be able to get Tank

Hill addressed. We did it very quickly.

So it’s not a question of us putting resources, money, into the rail on a regular

basis, but rather, it’s maintaining those good relationships. The communication lines

are open and working very collaboratively and effectively when something does happen.

Both the province and the railway understand the need to be able to have those transportation

routes and supply chain routes open as quickly as possible when something happens.

Sheldon Clare : Thank you for the response, sir.

My last question is related to the previous one. The south Vancouver Island rail corridor

foundation in Nanaimo tells me that they had a safety inspection report done of their

rail system, which indicates that if they slow down and all of that, it’s quite safe.

Has the province received a copy of that report? I was promised to get a copy of it,

but that has not yet happened, and I’m wondering if the ministry has it. If they could

share it, would they be willing to do so?

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I appreciate the question from the member. The railway corridor the member is talking

about isn’t owned by the province. It’s owned by ICF.

[2:35 p.m.]

I’m not aware of the specific report, but that doesn’t mean that we have not received

the report. If we have received the report, I will…. I don’t see it being an issue,

because it is done by a third party. It’s not a provincial report. So we can let you

know if we got it. It may well be that it’s on an existing website.

Harman Bhangu : In the city of Kelowna, can the minister provide an update for my colleagues on the

next steps of funding for Highway 33, Clement extension and transit yard in Kelowna,

on Highway 33 en route to Big White and Joe Ridge?

Can he provide an update on Daves Creek culvert replacement, which has been significantly

delayed since its announced timeline?

Hon. Mike Farnworth : Could the member clarify? Was it the Daves culvert?

Harman Bhangu : Yeah, the Daves Creek culvert replacement.

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I appreciate the question from the member. I’ll deal with one project, and then we’ll

get back to some of the other projects with my staff right here.

In terms of the Daves Creek culvert, the ministry did extensive examination of the

site and the situation and determined that the most cost-effective way to deal with

the issues at that culvert were to do increased armouring on the banks of the creek

along with the increased monitoring when it’s particularly rainy. That’s the approach

that the ministry has taken in terms of dealing with the situation that the member

has just referenced.

Harman Bhangu : I’ll move on to a little bit of the inland ferries. There have been a lot of key

recent major delays, as of April 2026, tied to shut-down vessels for most of the day,

disrupting hourly crossings. There have been also planned and unplanned infrastructure

upgrades being done during the whole process here. Also, it’s key in linking Revelstoke

and the Nakusp corridor of Highway 23.

What I want to ask is: given the repeated shutdowns of the Galena Bay ferry due to

both planned and unplanned maintenance, what contingency planning exists to ensure

connectivity of the service on the critical corridor when the vessel is out of operation?

[2:40 p.m.]

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I thank the member for the question. I can make a number of points for the member.

Reliability on the ferry is very high, but there have been issues from time to time.

Sometimes it has been around crewing but also around the propulsion system. There’s

work underway right now to get an additional propulsion system as a backup if that

issue arises with the Columbia ferry.

Harman Bhangu : The recent need to replace essential docking infrastructure highlights aging assets.

What is the government’s long-term capital plan and timeline for full vessel replacements

or major upgrades for the Upper Arrow Lake ferry?

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I appreciate the question from the member. There is long-term planning in terms of

infrastructure, transportation infrastructure and the inland ferry. In this particular

case, the vessel that we’re talking about is still the Columbia, which is still a

fairly new vessel. It’s only ten years old at this point, so there’s still a pretty

long life left in that vessel.

Harman Bhangu : Maintenance work on critical components was delayed and required disruptive shutdowns.

What steps are being taken to improve maintenance and planning to avoid reactive service

interruptions in the future?

Hon. Mike Farnworth : Obviously, to avoid disruptions due to maintenance is of critical importance. That’s

why, in terms of our contracts that we’ve got, there is a very high level of focus

on the maintenance issue in the contracts that we want to see is in place. That’s

on a regular basis, and that’s a key component of the maintenance contracts for the

vessels and for the infrastructure.

At the same time, we do have, for the big assets, a major asset capital plan, in terms

of looking at what the lifespan is of that on the long term, and it relates, for example,

to your previous question around the ship. In this case, the vessel is about ten years

old. That also takes into account maybe the components of that, so propulsion, for

example, and looking at the need to get an additional propulsion system and that planning

work in those….

[2:45 p.m.]

That’s the kind of activity and work that is critical to being able to avoid shutdowns

due to maintenance.

Harman Bhangu : What analysis has been conducted on the economic impacts of ferry outages on communities

like Nakusp and Revelstoke — particularly for tourism, forestry and commercial transport

— and how is it being mitigated?

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I appreciate the question from the member. I don’t think there’s a specific study

that I can point to. I also think it’s pretty common sense that if there’s a disruption

that has an impact in terms of an economic impact…. It has a social impact. It has

a frustration impact. All of those things come into play.

That’s why it’s crucial that we do the kind of work that we’ve been talking about

in this discussion. I’ll relate that directly to the Columbia ferry, because of the

link that it is between Revelstoke and Galena Bay and Nakusp, and the importance of

that route and ensuring that we minimize disruption as much as possible.

If we identify where some of the problem issues are…. In the case of propulsion, that

being one, then let’s make sure we’ve got that backup built in. As I said, that work

is underway to ensure that’s in place, to be able to avoid or minimize the kinds of

disruptions that impact…. They impact businesses. They impact people. It’s the kind

of frustration that when you live in that area and depend on a ferry, you don’t want

to have to experience.

Harman Bhangu : I want to know the updates on Crawford Bay and Balfour on the Kootenay Lake crossing.

There’s a new terminal. Is that on time and on budget to be completed this year?

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I appreciate the question from the member. The terminal upgrades are now complete,

and I’m not aware of them not being on budget.

Harman Bhangu : I just want to highlight something. I have been on the Galena ferry and the Upper

Arrow. I’ve been all across the province. I’ve experienced the delays firsthand.

I’ve also talked to the workers, and what they have told me is that the hull is too

light when wind affects it. That’s where the issues come. So that’s why I wanted to

know. Is there a plan to actually fix that situation? In those parts, the wind actually

does pick up, and that has been the main thing.

It kind of links back to the last time with the fast ferry fiasco. That was my main

concern here, and that’s why I wanted to raise these issues.

Now I’d like to pass the floor over to my colleague from…. I’m going to go to Kamloops

first. He has to get out of here quick.

[2:50 p.m.]

Ward Stamer : Yes, I just got off a Zoom meeting, so thanks very much.

I have a question for the minister. I’m going to frame it, and he’ll know exactly

where it’s coming from. The reason I’m going to frame it, if I can, is to try to put

context into it. I’m just going to throw a couple of numbers out here, and then the

minister can have the opportunity to respond.

From 2016 to 2026, the provincial government and the federal government have been

able to invest $1.7 billion in highway improvements from Kamloops to the Alberta border

on Highway 1. Now, that is framed under not only the opportunities to try to bring

it up to a four-lane standard but also much-needed infrastructure changes, including,

currently the R.W. Bruhn Bridge in Sicamous.

At the same time, we have Highway 5 from Kamloops to Jasper that at times has the

same traffic flow of industrial transport trucks as Highway 1. We also know that when

there are critical times, particularly in the winter and sometimes in the summer with

crashes on Highway 1, Highway 5 is really the only dedicated route that these trucks

can use, as with all the other users up and down North Thompson Valley.

My question to the minister is…. If we’ve spent, as a B.C. government and a federal

government, $1.7 billion in that ten-year period, and only $10 million has been spent

on Highway 5…. Part of that is improvements at Louis Creek for a CVSE turnout and

some maintenance widening and that sort of thing.

Can the minister explain why we haven’t seen any critical infrastructure funding in

the last ten years on Highway 5 and when we will be able to see those much-needed

improvements in the future?

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I thank the member for the question. I’ll make a couple of observations.

Just in the sheer volume, Highway 1 does have twice the volume of traffic that Highway

5 does. That being said, I understand the advocacy that the member is making around

Highway 5.

Upgrades themselves are not the only tool that the ministry has. Whether it’s pullouts,

whether it’s increased enforcement and CVSE inspections and enforcement, those kinds

of things taking place — the brushing, all of those things are things that we can

do.

[2:55 p.m.]

One of the biggest challenges we have is also the need for a proper, in my view, cost-share

program between the province and the federal government. That’s what allowed a lot

of the improvements to take place on Highway 1. Feds said it’s a priority. It’s a

priority for us.

Your area, as far as I’m concerned, is a priority. That is one of the things that

we’re currently engaged with, with the federal government and at our FPT meetings

— the need for a proper program that allows us to do more of what you are advocating

for on some of those critical highway corridors.

Ward Stamer : I appreciate the minister’s response. I don’t disagree with the minister that, yes,

the traffic counts are higher on Highway 1 than Highway 5. However, some of the things

that the minister is talking about are maintenance.

What we’re only asking for is that…. Cost-sharing is great on some of these projects.

But there seems to be a mindset in the MoTT world that because on Highway 1 they’re

trying to accomplish this four-lane standard, that is what’s being pushed towards

treasury branch on these new and additional projects. “We’ve already done this project,

and now we’re going to do this next project, and now we’re going to do this next project.”

But many of us that have driven that corridor know full well that there are areas

of that corridor that will never, ever be four-lane, unless the minister thinks that

we’re going to be four-laning through Three Valley Gap or through Malakwa to Revelstoke

or some of the other spots that are the choke points on Highway 1. That’s nev