Volume XLI Friday Province of Newfoundland FORTY -FIRST GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND Second Session VERBATIM REPORT {Hansard} Speaker: Honourable Thomas Lush [Preliminary Transcript] Number 41 25 May 1990

~ P H· House:~ mE:d: at 9:00a.m. Min. Speaker· (Lush): OrdE:~In, please! Before proceeding with routine business I want to inform all han. Members that one of our commissionaires, Mr. Bertram Lidstone, will bE! retiring as of today. Mr Lidstone is at the uppc:~r galletnies to my right. He has been with us in the Legislature for three years and has spent fifty - one years as a public SE!I"vant. On bE:~ half of aJ.Ol. hon. Membet"s, I tAJanl.: to expt"E!SS our gt"atitucle and thanks for his YE:'at"s of loyalty, commitment and dedica~ed service, and wish him many years of happy retirement. Some Han.

Members: Hear, hear! Statements by Ministers Mr. Speaker: rhe hon . the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs . Mr. Gullaqe : Mr. Speaker, as hon . Members are atAiare, today rnatnks the commencement of Canada's Fit Week. A unique celebration designed to stimulate greater pat"ticipation in physical activity and fitness. FI"OITI May 25 to June 3, ovet" seven and onE~ half milli.on Canadians tAii.ll be participating in this rnaj otn promotional campaign.

Fitnc:~ss week is also designed to heighten the atAJar'eness of the benE!fi.ts of healthy active living, while strengthening the nettAIOr'k of individual groups and organizations offering these programs.

In keeping with the first Fit Week launched in 1983, this year's campaign will again feature a number of nationwide l'llass part.icipaLion ev1:!nts sponsot"ed by so1nE:! twenty nat:i.onal L.L May 25, 1990 Vol XU and Pl"ovincial hea1l:.h and f'it.ness associations, twelve provincial and t.E:~I"I"'itot"ial govr"!l"nrn1::!nLs and Fitness Canada. rheSI~ E'V!:•nts range from swimming, cycling, walking, and numerous unique local a c-Livi ties.

This year's thernr:~ is 'Kick up your Heels.' In Newfoundland and Labradoi" last year approximately 70,000 people were involved in numerous events dui"'inq Fit Week and this yr::•<H' lAIE' a n t i c t p a l: E'! L h a t b e l:.tAJ e e n ·; 0 • 0 0 0 a 1·1 r 1 100,000 peop1e will be actively involVE!d. An (:~nor'lfiOUS i:\ITIOUI'll: ore volunteet" wor'k has gone into this campaign with over 300,000 voJ.unteet"s hE!lping out all. acr'oss l~ he country , inc l u cl :in (.3 hE! I":·! in Newfoundland and Labrador.

What this mE!ans is that:. the success oF Fit Week can only be made possible by the dedicated work of Lhese numerous volunteers and their coiTimitmE•nL~> and ded:i.ca t:.i.on Lo l:.he importance of hea1thy and acLive living. Hon. Members rnay br:~ in l:.eres Led ·l o know that thE!I"E! ai"E! OVE!I" 300 cornrnunities in NetAJfoundland an,J Labrador hosting their own

schedule of events dul"ing Fit Week, along with numerous other provincial health and fitness a s s o c i a t i o n s . T h e C o 1111 n u rd. L y Recreation, Sport and Fitness Division of Municipal and Provincial Af fair's, has b::•::·" actively involved in the c o - o r d i n a t. i o n of t. h r:· s e v a r· -i o 1.1'> projects as a means of ensuring lflaxi1num participal·ion dur'.inq l::h•:! week. Acldi tional1y, tAlC'' provide grants of up to ~t> 1 :iOO l:o rnoi"E! th <"~ n F'ift.y cornrnunities fot" PI"OIIIOt'i.onc:lJ. and organizational acLivities dut"'i.ng Fit Week. As the Minister wit.h l"lc~sponsib:iltty fol" l"t:!CI"eation. spor't, and f'itn€~ss, I lAJOu1cl like No. 11-1 rn

to urge al] hon. ME•mbers, and all residents of Newfoundland and Labrador, to take pal~t in as many E'VE!nl:.s as posstb1e, and as pal~t of our commitment to active living I challenge all Members to join with me and kick off Fit Week by wearing sne.akers a11 day long today and by getting personally involvc::1d with this unique fitness celebration. Thank you . M 1n . Speake l".: ThE~ h on . thE:' Me rn b N' For Kilbride . Mr. R. Aylward: Thank you, Mr . SpE!al<eln. First of all I want to thank thE! Minister for providing rne a copy of his statement in advance. I do want to recognize the hon.

Minister 1s nice pink sneakers tJJhich ht::' has on his desk today, but, Mr. Speaker. you cannot do much fitness with your sneakers on your desk - you are suppose to wear ·thr:!ln. An Hon. Member : the red . (Inaudible) tJJi th Mr. R. Aylward : There tJJere times when those sneakers were blue. On bE!half o·F thE! OpposiU.on I want to associate myself with the statement and encourage as many peop1e in the Prov.incu as possib1e to participate in Fit Week. It would probably be a good idea, Mr. Speaker, if the hon.

Minister organizr:•d some typt::1 of program For Membe1~s of l:ht::' House of Assembly because probably we are a group of Newfoundlanders who would certainly benefit by any Fitness progrdrn. Wht::'n I 1ook a·t thro1 belts around peoples 1 waists, Mr. Speaker, sornE! peoples 1 u..1aists haVE! so 111uch hanging out ovc':!r thc:1m, I L2 May 2~>. 1990 Vol XLI arn certain1y SUI"e that most of' us in l:.his housE! could do t .. d.th sorn1 :• fit.m~ss pl"ograrn. But I do want to make a recommendation to the hon .

Minister: if he would reinstate the capi.tal IJJOI~ks progr·am For the Department of Culture, Recreation and Youth, Mr. Speaker, the communities in this ProvincE:1, the more than fiFty thai: h1:' gave:> $500.00 to, IJ..JouJ.cl br::•nc::·f -i.t by providing recreational facilitie~ in thE:•il" COITIIIIUilJt.:i.e~; SO l..hat. people IJJho arc:~ intE!I"es U:·d ii-, becoming fit and staying fit would be able to ava'i.l oF l::h1:• opportunity to provide FacJlities For residents of their communities, Min. Spt::'akel". and thE! capital IJJorks proqr·arn IAJould b::· good.

To clue up, I just u..1ant t:o 1necomrnend t:o hon. MernbE:'rs of LhE! House of Assembly who are nol into I"Unning and jo~]g i n•:J and Lhings like that, this WE!ekend Ol" ear ·ly next week I will have ten thousand strawberry plants to bE! p1antE•d on my property. If anyone would loi :, ::• to come in and plant a few of those strawberry plants iL certainly would be a good idea For fitness week, Mr. Speaker. Ml". Speake1n : Bef'oi"E! ca1 'li.nq Ol"d] Quest i. on s , I tJJa nl: , on bE! h a 1 r:· or all hon.

Members, to E!Xtend a lAk\1"111 a n d c o r d t a l IJJ e l c o 11 II'! t o f i f L y ·-l .. t~J o students who, arnong ot.hel'' t.h:i.n<:JS, are studying DE~mo c racy. I"' hey a I" I? from Ascc':!nsion Col1eqiatE!, Bay l~oberts. and they are acco1npani.ecl by tl'lEdT tE!achers, Ml". Ed NeiJ and Mr. Claude Taylor. Some Hon. Mernbei"S : 1-it::'aln, hc:!\ ·LI" I Oral Questions Mr. Speake,r: The hon. the Membel" No. 'll 10

fo1~ Humber East . Ms Ve1ng-~: Thank you, Mr . Speaker. My question is for the Premier. Yesterday in Question Period the Premier said he really does not understand what is happening within Quebec, but now he does see the possibility of Quebec separating from the rest of Canada. My question is tAJhat would be the effect on Newfoundland and labrador if Quebec were to sepa1nate? Mr. Speaker: The han. the Premier . Premier Wells: Let me correct the misstatement by the han. Member. I did not say I did not understand what t..uas going on in Quebec.

What I said was I did not have an adequate level of personal knowledge of what was happening in Qur:!I:H=!c to rnakt~ an inteJ.ligE!nt. judgment I could ask people to accEq:>l:. as a sound judgment, so I qualified my comments by saying I rely on t..uhat others say, I rr:~ly on my observations. I understand tAJhat I see, I understand tAJhat they say, but I do not knotAJ from rny own personal knOt..uledge that: it. 'is so. So I cannot spc,~ak authoritatively fr·orn a personal knotAJledge point of view, and thE~tne is a significant difference between that and what the hon. Member suggested.

The matter is causing a great deal of concE!I"n ac1noss the country, but we still. must make our decisions on the basis of lAJhat is right Fot" the futurE! of Canada, lAJhat is right to preserve Canada as a Federal nat·ion and to presel~ve and protect the position of Newfoundland and Labrador and its people for the next decades and century as citizens of this country. We have to make sure that tJJe put in place and keep in place a constitution that will L3 May 25, 1990 Vo1 XI...I pl~ovidE! us lAJi.Lh an opport.unj.ty to bE:~ fu11 pat"ti.cipattnc:J cit.·izr:•ns of this countlny.

Now part of l:.he E:~quatton in tAJha l: we do is, of course, what will happE:~n if Quebec decid(,~S il: does not want to bE! part of Canada. I cannot say with any degree of certainty what that t..\Jil] TilE! an. Canada lAJi.l.l go on, but. I cannot rE:~ally irnagim~ hotAJ Canada wiJ.]. be tAli l: h o u t Q u E! be c . 13 u l: C a n •'\ d a tAd 11 go on, I haVE! no doubt abou l:. l:.hat , tAli. 11 c o n l: t n u C! a s C a n a d a , d n cl l cl o not knotAI t..uhat the I"E•1aLionshi .p tAli th Quebec tJ.Jill b::.' - I arn unab1t'' to predict that with any degree o f certainLy. Mr.

Speaker: rhe hon. l:.hE:' Mei'nb•:'l" for Humber East . Ms Verge : Thank you, Mr· . 5peakt?.r. DOE!S l:.he Pi"(:•:ll"iE!I" r:>xpr:•c t there would be serious negattve consequences fo1n NetAJJ~oundland dnd Labradoin if Qur:~bec lAJE:'I"r:~ to separate? Mr. Speaker: rhe hon. the Prr:'•tll"i r?i" . E"remier WeLls: Yr::'S. My juclr:Je rnE•,,t is yes there would be serious negative consequences if Quebec were to separate.

Wou1d Lhey be as serious as lockin(J u~; inl-.o a. constitution where we are bound folneVHin l:O br::! l:ht:! bE•CJCJdl"~> OJ Confederation, wa i Ling For handouts From Ot l:.i'llAJa d nd to 1 d l:.hii t you better be careful what you say or hotJJ you exprt'!SS you1n opini"11 because, I~E!I'riE!lTibel", you haVE! to rely on Ottawa fol" half Y0•.1r GovetnnrnE:~nt rE!Venue?

WE<U, I have s aid be f o In H i n l:. hi s H o u s f'! r IAI'i. 11 not bE• the leacletn oF lht' CoVE!rntTIC::'nt: l:.hal: sr:~11s Lhe cl'igni.Ly and sc,df-rE:'SPE!Cl:. of l.hE:' PE:'oplr:=! of­ Newfoundland and labrador f u r shol"t-"tc:~l''l'rl gain. No. 4.:J. JB

Some Hon. Member . ..?.: Hear, hear! Mr. Speaker: The hon. the Mc::~mbel" for Humber East. Ms Verge : Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Premier says he does expect there would be serious negative consequences for Newfoundland and Labrador if Quebec were to separate. If that should happen, Mr . Speaker, does thE:~ Pl"erniel" E!xpect t.hE! othE!I" n:i.ne provinces would stay together in a co nf eel e r·at :i.o n? Some Hon. Members : Oh, oh! Mr. Speaker : Order, please! The han . the Premier. Premier Wells: I do not know hot."J low the hon.

Member thinks the inl:e11igence oF the peoplE! of l:.h:is Province is, . that they have to try and sell t:his proposi fion by this kind of plaintive fearmongering. Let us look at the Meech Lake issues on the basis of what is right for the future oF l:his country and its people as a federal nation, where every citizen has the reasonable expectation of liutng in an E!qu;~l status with every other citizen, and tJJhere every province is ec1ual to every other province. Ml". Hewlett : (Inaudible) my father 1 s pension.

Premier Wells: I am not going to seLl the future of the peoplE! of this Province and their opportunity for dignity and self-respect Fol" the han . Mc::~mber 1 s father 1 s pension. Some Hon. Members: Hear, h1:!ar! Mr. Hewlett: You have already "5'0TC! ___ ,.u_s ____ d'cn ..... Jn- t he d r a i n ( i n au ch b 1 e ) . L ~~ May 25, :I,'J90 Vol XLI Mr. Speaker : 0J"der, ph~ase! I t;.Jant to rE:~mi.nd hon.

Mernbei"S of Beau c he s n E! '1-0 9 , sect:. ion 3 , w h t c h says with res p e c t to Que s t ion Period, explaining what a question should be, 1 the question aught to seek information and, therefore, cannot be based upon a hypothesis, cannot se1c'k an optnion, eil:her legal or otherwise, and must not be argumentat.iv1:" ·oJ" 1r:ak::· I"E!PI''E:'sentations. 1 l-Ion. MeHii:H:!I"S ought: to knot;.l lAJhat t:hal · "i.s say Lng to us. TI1E! hon . East. the Member for HuJnbt•J" r.i§ ___ ~r..9 ... ~: Thank you, Mi". Speaker.

I would ltke to ask the Premier if he agrees with the economists and the "investment dc::~alei"S lAJho say that the cuJ"J"E:'nt poli.l:.ical instability in Canada is dJ"iuing up inteJ"E!S t:. ratE!S and hurting the national econo11JY; and, second, whether he believes t:.he economic harm is havtng a worse impact on New fo undland and Labrador l:han ot:heJ" rc:'g"ions ol Canada since our economy is, perhaps, the mast fragoi le of tho~;::­ of all the Provinces? Ml". Speaker: The han. t.he f'I"E!In:ir=•i" . Premier Wells : Agaoin, Mr .

Speak1?.r, il: calls For' opi.nions lAJhich YouJ" HonouJ" has just: r·u]ecl oul:, but: the hon. ME:~rnbE!I" has askecl the question and I an1 hE!Sil:ant l .. o simply not anstJJer it. I knot11 il. is a breach of the rult':!S, but in responding t.o a quesl::ion t:hal: breaches thE! l"Ules I may have l:.o breach the rules to answer tt. My OlAJI1 ex pE! c ta tion, and i L i. ~; o nl.y that, bec<:~use again I do nol:. knot!.,) thE:' rn:i.nds of t:he for·eign inve~;t.oJ"s in NetAJ Yor·k or Eul"OPP, r can only go by lAJhat I h<~!ar f'rorn -l..a1kjng to No. 11.1 1,~ "

_!_ businE!SSITJen and oth':~I"S, I can on1y judge by whal the Minister of Finance announced here yesterday, that the Government of Newfound1and floated a bond issue for $150 million, US dollars, at a very favorable rate. Notwithstanding the adverse effect of the impact of our fisheries on our economy, Moody's and Standard and Poor's confirmed our credit rating and I think that disp1ays great confidence in this Govel"rHnE•nt and il:s financial management po1icies, and great confidencel iii l:he ful:UJ"e of LhE• country.

I do not think that kind of Fearmongering should enter l:.his element of Lhe Meech Lake debate. I say again to Lhe han. Member, consider the opportunity for the people of this Province to ever have a reasonable economic, political and social Fut.uJ"e by putting in place a national political. inst:itution t.hal. lAr.i.'ll give thern an elfFective say in the exercis1?. of nat:ional power a11d national decision-making. Those are the kinds of things that are important.

Let us build this country on Lhe bas~s of a recognition that all our citizens are equal, all our provinces are equal and that Canada is an unified federal nation. 13ut, at l:he sdme t.ime, let us be' conCE!I''ne'd and ~~€Hluine1y responsive to l:he proposals of quebec to address th,;,dr legi ·tirnate and fair concerns, because Lhey should b~;:~ addressed, but let us do 'i.t . in a fail" t,~o.Jay, that preserves thE! fedeJ"al natul"e of this country and recognizes t.hat there are 20 million people outside the boundar'oirc•s of QUrc!bec just~ as deeply cohcerned about their personal futur'e, the tAJell-being oF thE!ir childl"en, and the security of this country as anybody who lives within Quebec.

Let us do it I o:· "':;) May 25, l'J90 Vol XLI lAJit·.h mutual t"E!SFJE!Ct, lc,,t us not do it out. of F~~al " Ol" undE!t' pressuJ"::• from lAJhat one pl"ovincr:~ says: you rnusl: do it l:.his way, or' eJ.s,~ we will cause this terribly unacceptab1e catastrophic result. That is an iJ.logical, improper way to address matters . Mr. Speaker: The hon. thE! Membt:.~r Fo1" Humber East. Ms Verge : Thank you, Ml ". Speaker. My questions have been abot.lt l:.hE! l"isk fol" N~;:•t,;lfouncl] .anclei"S a n d Lab r' ad o r' i a n s F I" o rn L. h e c u I" I" u n ! .. political instabi1ity wit hin Canada.

My f"inal quest. ion Fol" the~ Premier is whether he beliE!Ves holding out for a distinct socieLy clause in the prE!amblE! of LhE• Constitution ra l:her l:han the body of the Constitution J.s lAJOI"th LhE! risk to NewFoundlander's and l...ab I" ado l"i an s? Mr. Speaker: The hon . the Premier . Premier Wells: The hon. Member is ill-informed. I have not h1?.ld ouL For it. I have sugqestE!d Lhat i.s the proper place For' it to be, bu I. I haVE! also put f'ol"lAJard pl"oposa1s as to how :it can be addres sed within the body of Lhe Cons t.itution. The hun. Ml':!lllber· is not fu11y informed.

That, pc>rhaps, is nol':. her Faull:, but i.t is inaccul"ate to say t.ha t I have h e 1 d o u t f o r l: h e r e c o g n J. z a t. i o n o I QuebE•c as a distinct society to be only in Lhe

preamble. I h a u e , a L. t h e r e q tH:• ~; l:. o F S e n a L •J r MUI"J"ay and othE:'I"S, and in I"E!sponSE! \:.o the Chal"est pl"oposals, put Forward possible add -ons to address lhe concerns 0r Newfoundland lArithout mald .n~~ the changes Newfoundland 1'1\td or'iginal1y sugqested as Lhe prope'l" tAJay to address !:he prob1t'rn . ~'3o iL is wrong to su~Jqes'L t.hat I hav,;:• No. LD I~ 5

held out for that, it is inaccur·ate . . M.r.~ .. s pea k .. ~:..r. : The hon . the ME:11TJber for Humber East. Ms Verge : Thank you, Mr . Speaker. A final supplementary. Would the Premier table his latest constitutional proposal? Mr. Speaker: The hon . the Premier· . PJ"ernier Wells : FJ"orn rny point of view, yes , but I t h :ink I IAii.ll !Alai t until Monday. I will be ITI(:'eting IAiith t~he Pl"ime Minister this weekend. He has it, and if hE! in his judgement thinks it is the right thing to do rather than deal with it at a First Ministers 1 Conference directly, I have no quaJ"rel JJJi th tabling it.

I lAd 11 do so immediately on Monday. My reluctance to discuss Newfoundland 1 s response in detail to each individual item was consistent with what all the other Premiers are doing. fhey are not discussing the detail of it through media discussions, because that can only have the eff'ec t of hardening positions and making subsequent discussions and negotiaU.on impossible. I have no quarrel with putting it forward. As a matter of fact, I would like to make it public.

But what I t h 'i 11 k I JAii.ll d 0 is !Alai t U 11 t. i 1 I have an oppoJ"tunity to speak with the Pr·irne Minis [::(:'1" on Sunday, and do it on Monday . Ml". Speaker: The han. the Me•rnbE!r For Port au Port. Mr. Hodder: Mr . Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Social Services. I have been concerned about statements which have been made by the Minister conCE!J"ning Coach House, statemen ts 1_6 May 25, 1990 Vol XLI which have bE!E'Il rna cl E! to rnt:• by of ·Ficials :in his departi'llE!nt, i:.'!lld also statern(:'nts which haVE! beE•n made :in the Prov:inc1~ by professionals.

My question to the Minister is what do you do with young pE!Ople who sometimes want to harm themselves or harm properly, but. especially those, of course, who want to harrn thE!rnse•lVE:1s? I lAiant to ask l:.he Ministr::!l" ··Ls a gn:>up hornE! OJ" a foste1n hornH the type of facility For these young peopl cl Mr. Speaker, I arn troubl(:'d be cau sE• of 1..uhat I hear fi"Orn thE! M.inisl~,,~r, and I am troubled by whc:d : I h~:·al" f1norn Pl"ofessionals, i"!nd I wou1d likE! to as I< the Minister, clcH!S hE· really believe he is doing th e right thing? Mr. Speaker: Thr:~ hon. the Mr::!rnbeJ" of Social Services .

Mr . Efford: Thank you , Ml ". s p e a k e r . r.., r . S p e a k E! r , 1 e t. rn e s a y to my hon. critic that I haVl=' bE!E'I1 troubled abou l:. the Coach HousE! rcoJ" ti1E' past three ye•ai"S, since 198'/. I have been troublr :'d t.o the point where, when I was in Opposition, on numeJ"ous occas1ons WE:' 111ack· a number of attempts to meet with tl1e then Minis tE:'ln l:.o try Lo d'i.scuss the problPITIS, but:. hE• tAJould not meet.

S:incr:• beco11rii"J M'inister, I certainly have been more troubled about: . it. becausr• I have had a better insight into IAJhat IAJas actually talcinq place down at the Coach House. WE! have done everything humanly possible with the officials of the DepartmE•nl~ of Social ServiCE!~~ and the rnanagr.:Hnent board and staff of the Coach House to l:i "Y to come to some resolution tha t would solve l~he ser'1ous prob1t:'lnS IAJhich IAJer·t:• t:a ld .ng p1a CC:'. 0 n a day- · to-day b a~; i s l: he r· E:' IAIP I" e No . 41 R6

continuous problems within the enviJ"onmE:~nl:. oF l.:he Coach House. The Royal Newfoundland Constabulary had to be called in, and the neighbours weJ"E:~ quite concerned. There were a number of issues. Am I satisfied with the decision made? Yes, Mr. Speaker, I am quite satisfied with the decision made in closing the Coach House. Wi11 the pi"opeJ" car·~:~ be given to the young boys 01n gi1nls who need care because of their severe behavioural problems? Yes. The Director of Child Welfare, Mr.

TE!Inry Stapleton, in IAJhom I have a great deaJ. of confidencE!, has already develop~~d an inl:Prim plan, but. that is not the futurE!. HE! has already cal.led together officials of the Department, we have already met lAJit:h the present staff of the Coach House, WE! plan to rneE!l:. at a lal:E!r date lAJi.l:h thE! management board and the staff, together with officials of the Department and othetn Ol"ganizations within the community, to develop a long-term plan lAJhich wiLl. be the best:. for young boys and girls with this particular type of behaviour. And he is quite r:ight, something sed.ous could happen.

That is the reason why J.L.Je rnadE! the dE!Cision to closr::! l:hE! Coach l·lousr:~ bE!Fore sornethin~J ITIOI"E:! sE•rious happE!ns in the FuturE! l:.han happened in the past. Mr. Speaker: ThE:~ hon. thE! ME!ITibE!r for Port au Port . Mr. Hodder: Min , Speaker, whE!n I questioned the Minister the last day he said the prograrn was in pJ.acE!. NolAJ he says thel"e is a plan in place and the program will corne latE! I", YE!t he has dE!cidl'::'cl to close the house. Mr.

Speaker, I understand that recently a young person <'rl:. thr~ Coach House L'7 May 2~1. 1990 Vol Xl..I atl:.empted suicide by hanging had to be cut down. Will and t:.: ,,,, Mird.sl.r:!l" conf"inn this? And is this the typE! of pel~son t.L.Jho can 1:::• supE!Invised :i.n a gl"oup hom(:! Ol" :in a foster horne? And t.L.Jhy is it thr::> Minister closed down Coach House lAJi thout ensUI"·.ing adequa l:E:' p1nograrns ancl facilities wei"E' availablE! fol" such needy cases as the case I have just mentioned? Ml". Speaker : Th~:! hon . the Minister of Social Services . Ml" . Efforcl : Thank you, Mr . SpeakE:~r.

Fii"Sl: of all, thel"rc! dl"f:' q u i t e a n u rn b e 1n , a n d I a ITI n o t. a b o u t to 1ist of'f the nUI'IIbr:H' of typ~'S oi seJ"ious thtngs wh:ich have happE!nE!cl in the Coach House ovur l:he pch t three years. The only thtng I can honestly say to this hon. Housr:• of Assr:'ITlbly is that I an1 abJe to s t. a n d i n t h t s H o u s "'' a n d ·; .~ y I h d ,,, cJ.osr,~d the Coc:u:h 1-lousr:' br::·foi"E', as I sa"id in anst.L.JI::H' Lo tl'11:' or'ig"i.rh':l questions, before some young person lost: his Life, r'al:hE•r' L".han close it in lnE·acti .on to sornr::•thin~J more serious happening.

I~ w~s E! x act 1 y t h a t. l: o tAl h :i c h I tAl as referring. Yes, very, very se1~:ious th"in~JS havr:~ happE•rH:!d ove1" the past thl"ee yeai"S, <:'lnd l.har· L; t he In E! a s o n lAJ h y lAJ e :11 et cl r::• t-. h e decision to close lhal: pdl"ti.cul.,.: ' rac:i.lity. Will the boys and/or gir].s be b e t. l: e r l o o k o d a r· l. r:! I" i n a '3 I" o u p h 0 ITI C:~ 0 I" .i n S 0 ITI r;:! f 0 S t. e I" h 0 i'rl r''' ? Nobody has said to d<'tl:e that t.hey will be going into a particular g1noup home, nobody sa"i.d l.hey lAJ··iJl bE• go"ing into a pal"toi.cu1al" Fos LOI" ho1ne.

WI':' havr) an 'inLr:•r'irn p 'lan a]TE•ady in rn:l.nd f"or· notAl, fo1" thr::• shortr:~r per·iod or-- ·t:ilne. The Coach House will not until Tune 30. I have a deal of confidencr'~ ·jn l:hl" No. 4 J. c"lo·; ,,. gl"r:"d'l peoplE! WI

in the Department of Social Services. enough confidence to know that they will bring in a long-term plan that is best for the future, not just something reactionary. I am not going to bE~ pressured by the Opposition or by anybody in this Province into making the wrong decision. The right decision will be made and the right care will be given to those young boys and girls in ·the Ful~ur·e, unl:i.kC::! the fol"'ner AclministJ~at'.ion, IAJh:ich just put t.hul'll out thE!J~e and foJ~go t about. them. Mr. Speaker: ThE! hon. the ME!mber for Port au Port. Mr. Hodder: Mr.

Speaker, as the house now stands, there are seventeen professionals. most of them JAJith de:'gr·E!eS ·-· there is only one 01~ l:.IAJO IAJi thout. degrees ··- all in the professional and social sciences, which are needed there. Mr. SpE!aker. there is no planning For where the people are going. The MinistE!r admitted it when he ansWE!red the last question.

Wou1d the Minister consider replacing the home, since it is not the structurE~ which is inadequate, nor l~he staff, nor the concept, or as a last lnE~soJ~t. and thr:•rE:' is ana ther anglE~ to this, and I think we have dE•rnonstrated it hE!re; the Minister has admitted that these are very sE~rious casr:'S. If we are not going to put them into a well-supervise:~d E~nvironrnE~nt. would he consider sending them to another Province? There are institutions in Onta1nio which are very, very specialized in this type of field.

WouJ.d he consider sending them out of thE~ Province or. better still, do the right thing here in the Province? Mx:. -~ ...... -.- ---~2._~-~ .. ~ .. ~ .. r.:: : Minister of Social rhe han . c . ~ervlces. l:he 1._8 May 2S, 1')90 Vol XLI Mr. Efford : Mr. Speaker, i l:. 'is a job to keep from smiling when such a s~;:'r-.ious situation is takoing place down in thE~ Coach House. I listen to the M~:·rnber opposite knowing full well that his Government developed the plan for the Coach House thE~n let it. develop into the situation i l~ is in by doing absolutely nothing for a number of years.

When the l~hen Leader of the Opposition - now the Prerni1~r -and myso1f tAJE~nt clotAJn aJ;:\ visited that particular facil'"i.ty w~~ tAJeJ~e tol:i~lly shoc\<!:,,d out o f' 01_1r' minds by what we witnessed in that particul.ar facility, JAJhal :. IAJas happening to the young boys dotAJn the:~re. And now I have a Cl"""i l:.ic who has alJ the anstAJelns fol" thosE:~ young people. We'll, let: rne l:.l::. 11. thE! M':~rnb._ ·i'·· opposite that as Minister of Social Servtc1~s I knot.1.J Full. lAJc=~ll about the past hi~d :.ory, about Lhe present history and aboul- tAJhat i.·> needed for the Future of those young boys.

We do have a plan. We have in rn:ind what i.s besl:, but: I <:tin not going to announce it until I am completely satisfied that we have explored all possible pros and cons rE•gaJ"chng the fu Lur'E! of those younq people., Wi 1J r. open up anothE:'I" facoiloity like th1::• Coach House? AbsolulPly not. Absolutely not . ., he plan l.hE! Director of Child Welfare and lhr:• officials of my Department have in m-:ind is so1nE~lhing thal:. is btc'sl fui" the future, and when we have it complete1y investigated and we <'n-,=· cornpleteJ.y satisfiE!cl with it .. then I will make an announcement to this House of Assembly.

Some Hon. Members: HE~ar, heal~ I Mr. Speaker: The hon . thE! Mernbr::•J " For Port au Port. Min , Hodder : Ml" . ;:;peakE!I". nobody No . 4.1 R8

'is asking thE! M:in:i.stE!In to open up a facility such as Coach House. Mr. Speakeln, a public pe1nson, who tAJas a consultant, said it is worse this year than it tAJas any othr:~r year. The Minister•s plan is to close it in thirty days with no program ready. As well, Mr. Speaker, in his public statements about the institution, I am going to ask the Minister if he is implying l:hat in the population of this Province, 600,000 people, thE:~re a1ne only FoUl" boys and UH~InE! a1nE! no ferna1(:'S tAJhatsoeveln lAJi.l:.h this type of problem? Mr. Speaker, this is very serious.

These young people, because of their disposition, often cannot be kept at the Jani':HAJay Hospital, and because there is no juvenile version of the Waterfor·d in this Province, ~s the problem of the young people who are not there but who are in the Province bE!ing adequately met? How can the Ministe1n do it, I must ask him again, in g1noup homes and in foster homes as he is planning to do, and as he told this house he was going to do in his original statem~~nt. Mr. SpeakE!r: The han. the Member for Socia1 Services. Min.

Efford: It: is quitE! obvious that their Former in Administration must have confusNI UH~ir minds so much that they do not even understand an answer to a question. Fi1nst of all, I did nol:. say we welnE! going to put thern in group homes, I did not say we IAJE:~re goi.ng to put thr:~m in forrnr:'r foster homes. Ther·aputic foster homes possibly, tAJit:h proFessional pE•ople and proper support services in place. The1t is on~~ of thr:~ p1ans we are considering for the future. ArE! than L9 t:hr:' l"e the rnore in the Four or five May 25, 1990 ProvincE:' boys lAJho Vo1 XLI were at the Coach House? Yes.

A1ne thE:!I"E~ any fr:~1nal(::-s, young ch'ilcl1nen, young giJ"1s in the Province wil:h behavioural problems? Yes. Would we considE•r sending some of them to the mainland, to where there are proper institutions For care? Yes. WE! already have applications for two particular people, where psychiatrists of the Department of Health have advoi.s1:~d us t:.hat. this is l:.h~~ onJ.y alt.E!I~native, that thlo!l"l':! is absolut.1:~ly no Llnc~al':.Jrlc:>nl: hE:' 1~ e :i n N €:' tAl F o u n cl J. an cl l·: h at IAI e c: a n possibly giv1:>. Mr. Hodder: That· is a home you are sending thern to . Ml".

Efford: OnE! of OUI" PI"Oblr:•rns is that there is a shortage of rnedi.cal staff, psychiatrists, in the Province to adequately deal with the number of chi'.Idren. I mean, that:. is somet:.hoinrJ t.ue hav1:! t:o contend wi t:.h. But LheJ"E! ai"E! rnany rnoln'''! t:han four, and LhE!r,:• ce1ntainly has to be SOITII:'thing developed fol" the futu1ne of l:hos1:• young children. And I intE!nd to do that. I can assuJ~e LhE• hon. Member opposite and everybody in l:.his Province t:.hat: thos1::> boys and girls who have very severe bE•haviour·al pl~oblc~ITIS ancl t .. Jho nC>c:~d '"I . . -1 l f ' . -1 "!

L 11. s s p E' c l a. ··:. y p e o · car· e , l,1.JJ .. r·eceive it. IF you lAJC~Jne to t:alk l:o soJne or· those young peop]e they, l:hemse1VE!S, will l'.·.e l1 you l:hey doi.d not qE·t anything oul.. of' thE! Coach House, any propl':~r progr'a1r1ing Lhat lnea11y helped thr:!lfl, and lAJ~:! hdVE' l:alkecl to parE!nl:s i'\nd tAll:'! havE• talked to a nurnbe1~ of people!. But the proper· care lAJil] bE! goiven, as rnuch as l:he Oppos:i.L:i .1)n qU('!Sl:i.ons .it' Mr. Speaker : The hon. thP ME·rnbE•J" for St. John's East Ext·.·.t:·J"n. No. 4. J. R9

Mr. Parsons: Mr . Sp{~ak•:or, thank you very much. My question is also to the Minister of Social Services, but I want to remind the Minister before I get into my question, that when the previous Govel"nrnent opened tl1e Coach House, it was opened on professional advice, and I am assuming now, it is closing on the Minister's personal advice. That. is what I got from what you just said. In saying that, Mr . Speaker, a couple of nights ago I lAiatched an interview conducted by Debbie Cooper, of CBC, with a gE!ntleman, Art Sh(-=!ilds.

H«::~ is from Ontario and has two homes, or he is in charg•C! of l:.wo homes the1"e, on Pal"k HiJ.l, and the people in those homes have severe behavioural problems as WE!ll. His homes have served the situation well. I tAJant to know, Mr. Speaker, the status of the original five occupants of the Coach House. Where are they? An Hon. Member: Good question. Mr. Speaker: The hon. the Minister of Social Services. Mr. Efford: Mr. Speaker, I am not so sure I understand the last part of his question . fhe stal:us of the five boys put there originally, when it was opened? Mr. Parsons: Y.::'s . Mr.

Effor'd: I cannot answer t.hat, Ml~·:--s·p-e .. a.k e r . I wi 11 certain 1 y check the fih!s of the Department of Social Services, go back and check and see whether - the original five boys, in 1987? Mr. Parsons: Yes. Mr.. the out 1..10 Efford : I can CE!I"tainly have Director of Child We1fal"e dig thE! fi1es, bul:. onE! thj_ng I May 25, l'J90 Vol XLI tAr.i.ll tell th.::~ hon. MetnbE!r, I tAri] 1 not, and I am not aJ.lotAJed to as Minister of Social Services or anybody else in the Province, talk about the confidential files on young people we have within the Department of Soc-ial ServiCE!S.

I can give some basic information as to what a young person has gone through and the status of that young person, without giving any narne or any inforrnaU .on. I will not release to l~hE! pub '1ir : any particular information . Was lh.::' clec.is-.ion rnadt:! by mr::• s"ol ·\.y as Minister of Social Services? Absolutely not . fhe Director of Child Welfare, the ofFicials of the Departrnenl~ of Soc ia1 ServicE!S in consultation with other experts around the City of St. John's, have discussed this at great length and the advice was given to me. I do not make decisions alone in th,:;.

Departm1:!nl~ of Sor:i.al ServiCE!S, I SE!ek thE! advicE· of LhE! people, the expert-.ise of l:.he people who know best. And that is the change in Lhe DepartlnE•nt notAl. That is tAJhat tAlE' caLl. real chanqE!, unlike the past, change For Lhe betterment of Lhose young boys and/or young girl s. Some Hon. Members : Hear, hE' al ·' I Mr. Speaker : fhe hon. Lhr::• M(•inb•cT for St. John's East ExteJ"n. Mr. Parsons: Thank you, M1~ . Speaker. I did nol:. ask t:he Minister fot" anything that: . tAia s confidential. I mean, I <WI not: that stupid.

I know you cannot release anything confidentia] as it per'tains Lo an indiviclua1. I did ask the Minister and l will ask hirn again notAl, if. sornE! who had buen residE!nl :.s of l~hat ho1ne sincr::• it lAIC\ S OpE! n !O:~cl WhO lAIC l"e pJ.<H ('! cl J. n hornr::•s or othE!r ' :instil~utions, hi :'IVE· they been changed around or are No . 11-1 1no

they sti11 rE!s:i.ding in those sanw homes or institutions, the ones who have left? You stated in thE! House last week that we started off with five and you told us then there was only one left. I am wondering where the others went. Have you gotten homes for them? Are they still in the same homes you put them in in the first instance? Mr. Speaker : The han . the Minister of Social Services . Mr. Effor·d: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Now I understand thE! h on . gent 1 E~ rna n 1 s question a 1 i l: t 1 e bit better. First of all, I think you are misunderstanding the concept of the Coach House.

First of all, the five boys and/or girls there was a mix when thE! Coach House opened in 1987. Nobody tAJho went to the Coach House stayed there For· any g1neat length of time. In fact, the original concept of the Coach House tAJas to put them ther·e for a btnief period of time, probably six weeks to two months, to do an assessment as to where they should go in l:he community. But, as it turned out, most of them went there and received whatever treatment was available through ptnogramrning.

So they COUld haVE! bE!en thE!re fo1n tlAIO Oln tl'llnee mon l:hs; one could have left and gone back with his or her fami1y, or tAJE!nl: to anol:her atnea oF thE! ProvinCE!, or could haVE! gon~::~ into a Foster horne or whatever, depending on the amount of rehabilitation they received. So it changes from time to time. And I would have to go back through the files and check to see the original admittance to that particular group home, and hotAJ many have beE•n adrnil:.l:.ed over l:hE:~ t h r e E• years sincE! it tAla s opened I Lll May 251 1.990 Vol XLI up untt1 the timr:! i.t.. t1.J:.i.·l1 c1osr:'.

And I can giv1:;! a Full hisl:o1ny of what actual1y happenE!d to sonw of the young peop1e. I know, particularly FI''OJn lilY involvement back when I was in Opposition, that a nurnbetn of thE• boys were taken and placed back with their parents: one was From the han. thr:~ ME!tnber 1 s District, :i.n Carbonear, another was From the hon. Member 1 s District, in Concepl:.ion Bay ~3out.h. r hitd a petnsonal invo1vE•mun l tAJ:i th the111.

Because of the 1ack of service and the lack of treatment they were receiving in l:he gt"oup home, il:. was found that they were betl:.er off back lAiil:h thHiln ·Fa1nily members, and that is whaL happenE!cl to them. But I am no l: going l.o give detailed confidential information. Bul:. if" Lhe hon. ME!rnbC:~r wanLs lflE• t.ol I lAI·i11 qE·t somc::1 basic infor1nation FI"Orrt l:.h:::• fiJ.es and I wi.l1 bring it. t.o thE• House of Assembly to giVE! you an idea. Thr:' hon.

ME!mbr:'r should a]so k n olAJ tha l: he approachE:'d Ill!! at 0 lit~ particular tirne about a n1c:tj 01n concern he had For his constituents, the neiqhbours around that c.u·ea, becc:·lUSl:! of pinoblems thC::!y lAiel~e hav'i.nq j n particular vicinity. cl OlAirl L ht:• Lha t.. M r . s pea k e r : T h e h o n . l: h E' M !'.! 1 n bE! , ... For St. John 1 s East Extern . Mr·. Parsons : That :i.s lAJhy I arn asking the questions, becauSE! I clu have concerns. I have concerns as well for Lhe well-bPing oF the peoplE! lAJho are i.n l:hat horne. As you say, some:~ of LhC::!III tAiere t"ehabi1itated. In that senSE!

I the horne must have work(•d. Agi:lin~ bE!Ci.'IUSE! of that intE!I"V:i .elAJ 1 ·it. lAJC\S clear that the bi<::JC.:Jr:!St. pr·ob1urn at tl'w Coach House lAJi'lS thc,:• chan~1e i.n No . ~~ 1 1n1.

staff from Social Services for which there was no supervision, Min. Speaker. In fact, supervision was non---exisU1nt. Now I want: to ask the Minister if the problem at the Coach House and the eventual closing was caused, to a great extent, by his Department, and he, being the Minister, was the person responsible for the great hardship which has been caused to some of those individuals? Mr. Speaker: rhe hon. l:he Minister of Social Services . Mr. Efford: Mr . Speaker, I am totally disappointed, and I suppose shocked to a certain extent, in the han. Member.

Because he knows what he just said in his question is leading into an accusation that the Department of Social Services directly caused probh1ms to the s l:aff and the operation of the Coach House. First of a11, that is absolutely wrong. We are not: the employers of the staff at the Coach HouSE!. Ther101 is a rnanagE:'Jnenl: boa1nd sot. up by thE! community, a volunteer board, who seek fundtng from the Department of Social Services to operate a facility such as that. At no tirne did IAJe eVE!In interfE!re wilh the operation of that particuJ.ar thing to cause problems .

Wr::! did have a social worker, by the way. a full U.rne social wo1nke1n on staff down there. Just th"ink about it, Mr . Speaker, seventeen employees to dr?.al with a maximum of five boys, most of the tirne only four. But seventeen in a small setting like that down therE!, in that particulain facility, that particular dwelling house, which is really what it was. No IAI , t h e 0 p p o s i t ion c a n s l:and dark, thE•re from daylight to Ll2 May 25, 1990 Vol XLI twenty-four a day, fifty two weeks a year, three hundred and sixty five days, but theinE! is no way I am going to changu my rrrind.

We did not cause any problE!rns. We tried to work with the staff on an number of occasions. I ITIE!t IAiith them on several occasions. We tried to institute ne!AJ tdE!aS, and we kept repairing the facility, the damage that was being continously done. We knOI.i.J l:hE• right decision wa s rnade in Lhis particular instance. Mr. Speaker: Th(:' hon. thE• ME:·rnber ' For St. Jolin's East Exl\o!rn. Mr. Parsons: Mr . Spr:1akE•r, . I cl i d see the Minister because I had concerns at that parttcular tim''~. and I was approached by people from the area.

Bul: agd.tn, going back to that interviE·IAJ, I d:icl not realize it was a starr problem. [ ask thE! MinistE•r', OVE!I'' thjs pa~;t year, because of that staff problE!m, wasn't he the rE'!SponsibJ.e person? You should have seen that the staff was aciE!quatE• to hc;wdle wha~ was gotng on at that particular home. Is it your responsibility? Whose responsibiJ.ity was it or is tt? Min . Speaker : The hon . the Minister of Social Services . Mr . Efford: First of aLl., theiAE! 1.1.1as seventeen stal~f ill~''iiibers dOIAIIl the1ne, seV(:'ntE•en in one ~;JTid}] faciltl:y for five boys . rhey asked us for more.

They wanted another $178,000. You could havt?. put alJ the staff you IAJcHJlc:!d in there, i.l- . IAJas go'.LiV.:J l:o make iW difference to the proper programming for those youn~ individuals. You could put l:tAJi .cE· the stalcf down thr;:!r'e and tl: IAJOUld make no difference. Wa s i.t thr::' r(:'Sponsibjlity of the No. 1.1.1 Rl2

Department of Social Services? Indi1nectly tAlE! alnE! 1nesponsJ.ble for all matters when it comes to young children in the Province. fhere was a management board set up down th.:'re - the han. Membeln knOtAlS that and we deal directly with the board. rhe management board comes directly to the Department of Social Services, and we met on a number of occasions. We could have met from here etE!rni ty, it tAlas not going to to c h a n g e w h a t tAl a s no l: hap p e n J n !J or what should have been happening to the young boys. fhe care tAlill be given. fhe problem with the Opposition, Mr.

Speaker, is they are afraid, they a1ne afraid something positive is going to happen for a change. rhal- is the pr·oblem. But I can assulnE! han. Members that somE!thing posit.ivt':! is gotng to happE•n. T he young boys and young girls will receive the proper care. We are already working with the staff. Yesterday I had a meeting with the staff of the Coach House concerntng the future of those young individuals and they ag1need to be a part of war king aut. tAli th the DirE!Ctor of Child Welfa1ne and ol.hE!r officials oF thE• Department. of Social Services what is the besl: progr·am.

In Fact, they agreed at l.hat meeting, Mr. Sp1"!aker, that- we maclt:! the ri<_3hl: decision. The staff agreed yesterday at the meeting. Mr. Speaker: expirE!d . Ques t:ion Per·iod 0 0 0 Ms Cowan: Mr . Speaker, we speeding along so quickly - I a response to a question. has lJ,JE! In E! have U3 May 25, :1.990 Vol XLI Mr. Speake1n: WE! tAIL!] haVE! to et~>k the House if we can revert back to AnsLAlers to Questions for· which Notice has been Given. An Han. Member: I hav1'! beE!n waiting nearly three months . Ms Cowan : He has not been waiting three months, by the JAJay, Mr. Speaker, he has been waittng a lAleek.

I tAJ:i.sh to t~ab1E• thE• :'i.nvotcr::!S have been requestod by Opposition in regard to adjustrnent progr·am Fo1n Fish WOlnkE!rS. Petitions l.~hd t Lh::! LhE! pliHlt Mr. Speaker: The hon. Lhe M!O:'Iribl:!r for Pleasantville. Mr. Noel: Thank you, M1n. Speake I''. It gives ITIE! g1neat plE!asurE! today, Mr. Speaker, to introduce a petition on bE!half of lhE• Newfoundland and Labrador Patient's Rights Association.

A nurnbt~ln of membE•rs o(: l:hal': association are in lhe gal l ery, along lAlil:.h S!)lne rnoiTib(!lns or:~ the chiropractic profession, to tAli t neSS l:. he i 11 l: In 0 cl Ll C t j, 0 11 0 [-- t·. h iS pE!ti tion, and to encou1nac,1e Me111bE•1ns and the Government to attend Lo thEd .r inl.erE!Sts. I introduce the petition in the knowledge tha~ il': is our Government 1 s intention to bring in legislation to satisfy the requirements of lhese peopJe and Lhe profession.

I Lhink it is appropriate lo have l.he petil.ion I:H?folnE! l:he Hous,:! til inclical:e thE• d E! ~J r "=' e o F s u p p o r t <:HI I o 11 <] s t l:.l-w pub] i.e in gE!neral. rhu pE!l:'il:.i.on conta'i.ns alrnos L 3000 nalll(:•s frorn No. 41 1n3

all around the Province and it reads: To the Han. House o·F Assembly of Newfoundland in Legislative Session Convened, the petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland and Labrador; that the Newfoundland and Labrador Chiropractic Association has been actively advocating adoption of legislation to regulate the practice of chiropractic. That Newfoundland is the only jurisdiction in North American in which such legislation does not exist.

That J.egislat) .on would set educational requirements and regulatory standards, and provide for proper use of appropriate diagnostic tooJ.s for the treatment of back problems, headaches, neuralgic arthritis, shoulder problems. and joint dysfunction throughout the body. Therefore, your petitioners urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to introduce legislation to govern chiropractic in thE• Province. Mr. Speaker, I sincerely and enthusiastically endorse the concerns of these people.

I have been surprised in the course of my involvement lAd th this peti t:ion. and pl~ior to that. by the number of people you mee 1: ev,'='!ry day tAJho have derived t:rernendous benE!fit f1~0111 being l:reabc>d by chiropractors. Just in this buildtng, yesterday, I believE~ it: was, when I \..\Jas spE!aking to somE! people about l:.his petil:.ion corning bE!fore thE!

House, just in a group of people who work here in the building there were three out of sev1:!n or eight, I believe, who were together at the time, who either had experienced chiropractic sel~vices thE!ITISelues or had close relatives or friends who had, and WE•l"e very supportive of it. Ll4 May 25, 1990 Vol XLI It is important for us to bring in legislation to govern thts profession, M1~ . Speaker, j.n ord E!r to ensure that thE! profession is able to rE!gulate itSE!lf in ordE!r to ensure that they haVE! thE! diagnostic tools that will help them serve the profession bett.::!r.

They need acCE!SS to X·- ·Tays. which they do not have now. Sometimes a patient wiJ.l go to a chiropractors office and before thE! pr·acl :il:ioner· is able to treat the per son he ,~Jill halJE• to have thE! pE !rson go and have an X-ray taken. and in order to do that. the pE!I~son has -Lo go SeE! anothel~ doctor.

This may be a pE!rson who is '.in very acu l::::• need of being deaJ.t w'i l:.h and instead of the chiropractor b,~j.,,g able to do an X- ray on the spot and treat the person appropriately, that person might have to go and lAkd t For i'l long timE• ·to see another doc Lor tAJho tAli 11 a u t h o r oi l e a n x ·-r a y . h n tAl i 11 thE!n have to go to an x- r·ay facility and wait to have that x-ray taken and then they will have to tAJai t for l:he l~E!por l:. to go back to thE:' docto1~. and VE!I''Y ofLE!n Lhey could I:H ~ in consic\E:~rabh! discomfort during that period.

It is aJ.so necessary fOl ~ th' '' profession to have acce ss La laboratory tesU .ng in CH' ci E·r· L.o ensure that U11~i1" diagnos is i· ~. cori~E!Ct and that t.he tl~uatrn(!l1t they recommend and carry out is the treatment appropriate to the illness with which Lhey are dealing.

There are an interesting nurnbE!r of stat.isl:ics associal:.E·d with the si t.uation oF the profession in our Province and <."ls was said in the petition. tAle ar'E' the only jurisdiction in North America that does nol have appropr•iate legislation, Ult'Y hi.'l.VC• it J.n StAJedE:>rl, in GrE:'at B1~il .ain cHlcl Peru and rnos l: of LhE• Scandin< :w La11 countries, most of the advan ced No. 4-1 Rl4

countriE!S :i.n thcO! WOJ"J.d, and I think t. t is htgh t. 'i.tne that t.ue adopted it in this Province. Chiropractors, as E!Verybody knows, diagnosr::~ and treat back probh,ms, headachE!S, ne!uralgia, arthritis, shoulder problems and joint dysfunction as I said in the petition. One out of every three Canadians visits a chiropractor. Eighty per cent of the:~ populatton experience back pain at some point in l:.hc:~ir Jives and thit"ty pc:~r cent suffer back pain at any given time. Mr. Speaket" : OrdeJ", please! The hon. Member 1s time has elapsed . Some Hon. Members: leave . By leave, by Mr. Noel: Thank you, Mr.

SpeakE!!". Thank you. I think the• House t.uould do w~=!ll to lisLE!n to some of thE! additional fac Ls that have been compiled. There are 3,000 members, active members of the Chiropractic Patient 1s Rights Association in this Province, and thirteen practicing chiropractoJ"S, eleven of whom arE! rne!mbE!rS of the Newfoundland and Labrador Chiropractic Association. Legislation would set educational requirements and regulatory examinations fot" chiropracl:ors t.uho wish to practice in the Province.

Chiropractors see approximately ninE!ty to 100,000 patient oFFice visits yearly in this Province and one of, I think, the most convincing points to be made in t:he favout" of' l:he legislation required is the cost effectivenE!SS it t.~.Ji.ll have for medica1 services in our Province. The majority of chiropracl:ic practice is direct.ed tot.~.Jards back pain, thirty pE!J" cent of workers 1 compensation commission cJ.aims are for back us May 25, 1.990 Vol XLI pain. Due to excessive cost of c h I" o n i c c a s ~~ s , l.: h t' s E! g e n tH' a t e• sixty per cent of all Workers 1 Compensation Commission cos l:.s.

The Workers 1 Compensation Commission studies suggest a forty-five to fifty per cent saving in the cost of treating back pain by using chiropractors within the system. Governrnc"!nt enquir·i~'>s in StAJE!dE!n al"'d Australia - and I will just be another JTJint;Le -- hi:t\JE• clutnonsLJ"al·ecl that the treatment by chil"OpractOJ"S 'i.·,; an E!Xtl"l'IIW ly C h E! a p ITI E! t h 0 cl 0 f h E'C\ J. t h C a l" E:! , i. l. does not spiral cost.s tht"ough ancil1.at"Y and spE•c:iaJ.:ist SE!r'vi ces, and on aver·age a dollar spc:!nl: on chiropractic services causes no further costs. Mr.

SpeakE!r, I believe the case for this 'legislation is convincing and I tt"ust thi.s han. Housr:• tAd]] agJ"(•E:!. fhank you vc:!I"Y rnuch, ~"3'ir. Mr. Speaker: rhe hon. thE! Mc::>tt1b1:•r· Fot" Grand Bank . Mr. Matthews: Thank you. MJ" . Speaker, I take pride and I am pleased this morning to rise in the House to suppot~L l:.he pe>l: .. 'i.l-ion so ably presented by lhe han. MernbE!r For· Plt?asanl:vi11.e.

J th ·.Lnk he has covered the chiropracLic issue vet"Y lAJe]l and I guc•ss l.:hu best thing I can say about this par t. i c u l a I" p e l: i t :i o n '" n cl l: 1·1 c:• rE!qUE!S t fi"OJ'fl chil"OPI"i.'ICtOJ"S and patients oF chiropractic in the Province is that I guess if you have experiencod it yourse!lF, l:.hen you can best spE!ak about it. I visit a chiropractor regularly. I lAJE:!nt t.o a11 othE!l" sour·ces of finding t"elieF for back pain i'l.ncl severe muscJ.e spasms, if I go regulat"ly, which l:.hey ca11 lll!C' to do, then I arn okay.

I cl'.i.dn 1 t find anything else LhaL worked LhaL weJ.l for· me, so I guess based upon No. 41 1\ E'

that you can only speak as you find and I am very supportive of - An Hon. Member: Does l:.his · come from your soccer days? Mr. Matthews: It could be from my soccer days, yes, it could very we11 be, I don't know. I was a pretty gentle player myself, it was thE! other players who p1ayed against me that roughed me up a bit and maybe that is why I am suffering toclc:ty, but I just want to say, very seriously, Mr. Speaker, that I would just l:i.kE! to urge the Government to get on with bringing forward the appropriate legislation.

I understand .that the Bill has not yet been brought to the Legislative Review Committee and I don't know if uJe will get a chance to get it forward and dealt with befo1ne the House recesses for the:.:' surnrner, but I would certainly urge Government - An Hon. Member: We will be sitting all summer . Mr. Matthews: I would hope we are going to stay open al1 summer, but watching the tactics of the Government House Leader and the night sittings and so on, we would think he wants to get out sornewhE!re around the E!nd of May, which he is not.; we arE! not going to allow him to do that.

But, whether or not: 1.11e get !:his piE!Ce of legislation l:o the legislature and passed before we recess for the summer, or I lAJould urge the Government to at least bring for1.11ard this legislation to be dealt with this faLL, so that we don't have to want any longer. I want l:o go on record, Mr . SpeakE!r, in recognizing ·the group ·in the galleries this morning, and to go on record personally, in support: of bringing Forth Ll6 May 25, 1990 Vol XLI legi.slation and to, as express l:he support or: WE'l],, l::he of Official Opposition in suppo1nt legislation on behalf oF chiropractors. Some Han.

Members: Hear, hear! Mr. Speaker: The hon. l: hE! Minister of Health. Mr. Decker: Mr . Speaker, I want l:o congratulab:! my coJ.J.,:~drJuO h·om Pleasantville For the outstanding job he has done in presenting this peti.tion to the House today. l also want: to say that on numerous occasions, that ME!lTJi:lE'r, as lAH<U as others of rny co1leagues, havo Fr·om tirnE:' to time spokE!n to 1'11(:' favourably about bringing in legislation to control the profession of chiropractic in Uris Province, Ml". Spr-.:,aker. It. has been quite a concern.

Now, I have people of chiropractors chiropractors . . is, indeed, on good the and news For the Province, for pa tients of fhl"! the lAJay. legislation Now, thel~e has bt'en somE! irnpatiE!nce on the part of peop1E!, and I can understand that, bE!Cause it seems we have been s]ow in fo1"11"1Ulating this lugislat.ion. Now, Mr. Speaker, tve had to s l.ar·L from scr·atch, as a Covernrnent., whl"n we cam('' in, and Lry l:o straighten out some of Lhe mess which was left to us, in the heaJ.t.h care of this ProvincE' . And we have been busy in the last twelve months opening hospita1 beds, Mr.

Speaker, we h.::tVE! bc:":'n busy hiring additi.onaJ. nu1nsr:!s; we have been busy reorganizing the health care systr:!m; lAJE· hc\VE:' been busy forrnulal:ing lE!gislal:.·i,)n l:o control the profession of chiropractic in this Province. No. 4-1. R1.6

NotAl, l:he GoVE!rnrnent have made a decision on the general guidelines we are going to follow with our legislation. We now know where we intend to go, what we are going to do about the X-rays, as the Member for Pleasantvi.lle talked about. We have put in place a broad parameter. The legislation is being written, the 1 i 1 s 1 are bedng dotted and the 1 t 1 s 1 are be:ing crossed, even at this ve!l~y rnornE!nt, and I would certainly hope that, in the cout~SE! of lime, 1E!gislation ,will come forward, first before the Legislative Committee and then, befoJ~e the House. NotAl, Mr.

Speaker, I shou1d say that thE! legislation sorn(;!times is being referred to Jn the media as for chiropractors. Now, technica11y speaking, that. is not accurate. The l.egislation which contJ~ols · medtcal doctors, physiotherapists and other professions in the Province, the legislation is for thE! people of N(::-wfoundland and Labrador. It is so that any person who visits a chiropractor can be assured that he is visiting a pJ"ofessional, a pE!rson who is qualified to carry out his profE!SSion. So, strictly speaking, it is not for chiropractors, other than that chiropractors are members of the generaJ. pubJ.ic.

So, Mr. Speaker, is on the way . I the Opposition decided to legislation. Some Hon. Members : the legislation am pleased that have finally support this Hear, hear! Mr. Decker : When that particuJ.ar group of peop1e were in Government, Ml". Speaker, they had a rnarked1y different opinion about chiropractic in this PJ~ovince•. I sat in this House on the other Ll7 May 2(:i, 1990 Vol XI...I side whE!n Government, Carter. t hl':! tAJa s An Han. Member: not tr·ue. position, as a E!XpoundE!d by John Oh, no! rhal:. is Mr. Decker: He said it. He was never once contradicted, Mr. Speaker.

His position tAJas the position of the Government and, consequently, they never acted. Mr.. SpeakE!I~ : Oi~deJ~, pJr:~asr:!! I rE!rnind hon. Me•rnbE•t~s that.. tn Lhr::• presentation of a petition, hon. Members ar'E~ not to r:~ngage ·:i.n debate. They aJ~,;· l:o J~esli'·tcL themselves to the rnateriaJ. allegations of the petition in terms of who it is r'E!present:i.ng, and in terms of the number. I tAJould ask thE! MinJ.stE!r', p1r::·a~>E•, to restrict himself to the proper regulations. The hon. the Minister of HeaJ.th . Mr. Decker: Thank you, Mr . SpeakE!r.

Wh.:'n you see peoplr::• tAJho have changed their tune, it is difficult For' nw to mainta·in my cool and I have to clnw,J that. l.:o the a ·Ltention of the people. And maybe• I did gc:!L C<HTic:•d atAJay in l: h e h c:• a 1: o f d e b a t e IAI i. L h L h '"' rhetoJ~ic, but I could not. rn:Lss LhE:! opportunity of remincliny hon. ME!ITJb.:'r'S of JAJheJ~e oncr:• t.hr::•y s toocl. rhe fact or- l:he rnal:.teJ" "is, Mr.

SpE!aker, this lE!gis1ation is indeed on the tAJay and now l:ha I. l: h::• opposition have changed their position, they tAiill no dottbL assist us as we bring that 1egislation through thP Legislature Review Committee and ultimal:.ely before l:.his House dnd I would 1ike t.o have that through befot~e Lhis session. u- Lhe Hous::• goes on into July, I have no doubt that we will get it into this No. ll-1 r~ l'l

session. IF the House doas not sit: until July, it wiLl probably be well into thE! Fall sitting of the house before we get it done . Some Hon. Members: Hear, hear! Mr. Speaker: The han. the Member for Torngat Mountains . Mr. Warren: Thank you, Mr'. Speaker. I have a petition from the residents of Postville. Again, it concerns health care. And the·.ir conceinn, Min. Speai<E•r, is aboul: the heall :h care thai- is administered to those people by the Grenft"!ll regional health services. Min.

Speaker, I find it interesting jus l: listening to the Ministein of Health, who said that his Governrn~~!nt is opening hospital beds around the Province. It was only yesterday, Mr. Speaker, I returned . from Ottawa where I mE!t '"'li t h Fed e r a 1 o F f i c i a l s . I h a v e beE!n advised, Mr. Speaker, that this Government has put on hold the two nursing clinics in Davis Inlet and Hopedale. Two nursing clinics that are in the Coastal Labrador Agi~eemen l: and which were planned for construction to begin this year. This Government has decided notAl to put those two nursing clinics on hold . Now, Mr.

Speaker, I think ir.: i.s a sad clay foi~ thE! pE!Ople of Davis InlE!t and a sad day For the people in Hopedale to inE!alize once again Lhis GovernmE!nt that calls for a real change, is not going to improve heall:h conditions for the people in my District in particular. And, Mr . Speaker, the people in Postville are saying to their GovernmE!nt, to get on and improve health care, because not only the people on the Labrador coast, but the people throughout NewFoundland and Labr·ador nE•t:•ds the best heaJ.th carE! possible.

If L18 May 25, 1990 Vol XLI t:.his Goverr11nenl: dot:!S nol: conl·.·.inue to bring about improvements in health care thr~n I think, Mr. Speaker, they are doing injustice to the people who deserve it. Mr. Speaker: Order, please! The Chair does not want to bE! too restrictive in terms of presentation of pE!titions, but thE! Chair has a duty to E:!nsure that thE! rulE!S and reguJattons in t·.his House atne followt~d. A l1 hon.

ME·rnbers know that i.n presenti.n~l a petition they should .i liil n~ :-dtately procE•ed to the :! prayE!r of the petition, and fi"Om thei"E! on Follow on t.~dth whatevetn inforrnati .on tAJ:.i1.1. support l:he prayer and get into the numbers on the petition and so on. So, I ask the hon. ME:'fiiber' iF he would, for the benefit. of the Chair, please proceed tAli. th t:hE! prayer of the petition . Mr. Warren : Thank you, Min . Speake in, the pinayE:!I" of the petition is that we are concerned with the health care that is presently available.

Concerns have bE!el'l expressed that patiE•nts aine not ineceiving Lhe proper health care, wherefore we support an inquiry into health care in Labrador . Mr. Speaker, this :is basically lAJhal:. r c'llll saying. Here the people are asking For an enquiry inl:o Lhe health care in Labrador, and at the same time l:his Governrnenl., instead of trying to improve health care -- tAle havt':! l·:wo ntH'si.nq clinics presently that are practica1ly unfit for patient:s to bE! even seen in . And, Mr.

Speaker, this Government now knows there has been an agreement signed by the Federal Government and Lhe Provinc ial Government on a Coastal Labrador No . 41 R18

Agreement and now the money has b~~en :i.d!'::1ntif:i.ed Fo1" thos~;! t:Luo nursing cl'.i.ni.cs. All of a sudden I am left to believe that this Government now for this year is again delaying the construction of those two clinics. It is a sad day indeed, Mr. Speaker. It is a sad day, Mr. Speaker, that this Government will not proceed with the new hospital in Happy VaLLey, Goose bay, a sad day indeed, Mr. Speaker. I have said in this House be f o I" e , i l- t.1Ja s this Governments intention that if NATO tJ.Jent ah~~ad in Goose Bay, the hospital tJ.Jould go ah~~ad. But, Ml".

Speaker, th!'::'re 'is more peop1E~ .in Labrador than people with NATO. There:1 are othel" human beings living in Labrador who need health care. Mr. Speaker, if we have to wait for international countries to gtve financial asststance in or·der to bui1d a hospital for our own people in the Province, then ther·e is something drastically wrong with this Government. I refer this peU.tion, Ml".

Speaker, to thE• Department of Health, and would hope that the Minister and the Government would takl':! irnrnediate action to assurE! that hE!aJ.th care is improvod on the Labrado1" coast, and secondly, make sure that construction starts as soon as possible on the two clinics at Hopedale and Davis Inlet. Mr. Speaker: The hon. l:hE! MernbE:1r for Kilbride. Mr. R. Aylward: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, very much. Mr. Speaker, I would l:ikE• to speak in support of my coJ.league' s pettt.ion f1"om l:he community of Hopeda1e. I think some fol"ty people signed this petition From Postville. Mr'.

SpPakE!r, I tJ..Jant to 1.19 May 25, 1.990 Vol XLI congratulate the Member for Torngat Mountains in so ably pi"E!SE!nting th:i.s pE!ti.l:'ion on behalf of his constituents, t.uho do haVE! a very genuine concern about the health care in their communities. I visited Hopedale St~VE:1ral times, as Minister of Northern Development, and I found the pE!Ople in Post.vi1lE! to bE! a VE:!I"Y conscientious, hard working group oF NelAJfouncl1andei"S tAJho ai"E' not.. looking For a r:~t:•E:! r"i.c\!~, t"''ln.

Spt:•akE!I", thE!Y hauE• said lo ITIC' l'lldny times l:.hat a.lJ. they E!Xpt:!cL Fro::1 GoverniTIE!nt. arE• se1nvJces t:h<:tt tJ.Jou]cl norma11y be expecl:.t::!d by any resident of any part of Canada. They WE:'re not at: t·.hE! l:.irnE! looking fol" highways to b(~! bu:llt i.n and out of Postvi.Lle. Tht::'Y a1ne VE•ry practical people.

But they do expE!Cl: a reason<:·\blE! 11:a.i.'l St:>rvice; they do expect a reasonab]P coastal and air Lransporl:.al:.ion service; and they do expect Government: to provide t:hem lAr'i.l:h a reasonable heaJ.t.h car'E! syst-.:ern, so that the heall:h o(~ the pE•Oph' in the community, tht::' ITIE!r1 and lJ..Jomen and childlnE!n oF t·:.hal: corn1r1uni.Ly wi11 be looked after. And, Mr. Speaker, they al"e aFr·a t d tha l: !::hE! Government, particu1arly this Governm~;!nt, tJ..d.l:.h its cul:back.., .i.n alJ pi"O~~I"arns uncle I" tht:•i I" con l.lnoJ., are going to cutback on th i s.

Now this :i.s one il:em !::haL t::.,::. Provincial GovernrnE!n L cannot: b] arnE• on l:he FedE•ral. Goverr11nenl: because health care in this Province :is the responsibi.l'it.y oF Lh•:· Provinctal Government. And when my colleague came back FI"OITI Ol'..l:.,'lWd last week and told me that t:he Provincial Government in this Pr'ovince has put on ho1cl l:.he c1inics For Davis Inlet: and HopE!daJ.e, t.tJ..JO ot.hE'!I" COIIIITIUnitit':•S tJ..Jhich I visiLed sutJ•·:--aJ. t.i1nes while Minister oF Northern No. 41 1\1. ')

Development, I tAJas shocked, Mr. Spc::'aker, bc::,cause I undc::~rstand l·:hE! Budget that was just passed in l:.his HousE:' of Assembly tJ.Jith a netAJ tax, 1. 5 per cent of all payrolls in this Province over $300,000, this new tax was suppose to be dedicated to education and health care. Yet we find, Mr. Speaker, that this Government has put on hold a very necessary health clin'i.c in Davis Inlet and a VE!ry necessary health clinic in Hopedale.

Why pass a new tax if you are going to cut back on hea1th care and we know t:.hal: there have ber:.~n cutbacks in education, especially teachers in hospitals which provide a very essential service for the sick children of this Province, Mr. Speaker, so we see that the Government of this Province is cutting back. We also see that for the health care of the people of Postville there is a definite need for a new hospital in the Goose Bay area, in the Lake Mc::~lville area, to service the whole coastal Labrador and central Labrador areas. Mr.

Speaker, I understand that part of the problem of building this hospital or financing thE! hospital was that Government was waiting to see if NA ro lAJas going to hav e a NATO training centre in Goose Bay, and they were waiting to do the planning. NotJ.J that the Gove1nnment knows there will not be a NATO training centre in Goose Bay, Mr.

Speab:~r, they should get on tAli th their planning i.mrnediat.ely and get the new hospital built in the Lake Melville arc::'a, so that thr:! present facilities that are there can be upgraded to the benefit of the people, not only in the Happy VallE!y- ·Goose Bay iH'ea, but to thc::~ people who clre flown in by helicopter or air ambulance from I 20 May 25, 1990 Vol XLI the coastal comrnuniti .E•s, fr ·o m Nain to Hopedale. Mr. Speaker, the health cat"e or:· Labrador is cost-shared; the Federal Government provides financing through native people's agreements to build such facilities .

I am surprised to see the Provincial Government, who suggests they are trying to provide bel: .ter health care -- Uwy rnacle an ''~ff'o1nt to irnpt"OVC::' ht•alth care by hiring extra nurses, I will give them credit for that. Mr. Speaker: Order, please! The hon. Member's time is up . Orders of the Day Mr . Baker: Motion 1, Min. Spec:1ke1n. Min . Speaker: Motion 1, adj oun1NI debate on the Budget. The hon. l:he Member for ME!nihek. Mr. A. Snow : Mr. Speaker .

Thank Last finished up, discussions on the - you very rnuch, night IAJhE!l1 1 or s t.ar b:•d ~r. .. speaker : I lAJO n cl (!In i f I be r 0 l" E· t h e h o n . M C::' tn b e I" g (~ 1: s i n to l: h e bur·clen of his speech, hE• tAJ:ilJ . a11oiAJ rne to inl~ert~upl to tAJelcoJTie stuciE!nts, bE•causc::' vet"Y ofl.E!Il Lhi':!Y leave and lAJe do not: qt:!l'· an opportunity to welcome them. On behalf of al J. hon. Membr::!I"S, I would like to extend a warm and cordial welcome to Fifty-fiue grade X students f~rOill Mobi .le Hiqh School, on the Sou U1E•rn Shoi"E•.

They at"e accompanied by l:hr::•ir tE!c:lchetns, Flot"E:'nC!::' DunatJ.Jay a.ncl J:irn Lynch. We extend you a IAJiH'm WE!lcorne. No . ~~ 1 1~20

Some Hon. Mernbel"S : Hec:l.l", hE:!ar! Mr. A. SnOIJJ: Thank you VE!I"Y much, Mr. SpE:~aker. I am not surE:~, when you made J"eference to the burden of my speech, lAJhE~ther it lAJas your burden because of my speech or - Mr. Flight: The burden is over here. Mr. A. Snow: fhe buJ"dE·n is over thE:~I"e? I I"N.:t1izE~ thE~ bui"den you people on that side of l:-.he House put upon thE:' peoplE! of this Province through your Budget has been incurred by many people in this Province, especially the burden which has been borne by the l"esidents of westE!I"n Labl"ador, in the District of Menihek. Mr.

Efford: (Inaudible) SE!Venteen years of Toryism . Ml". A. SnouJ : Ml". SpE!akE!I", I, too, would lib;! to tJJelcorne the students from Bay RobE:~rts, I believe it is, and other parts of the Province, and Mobile. I hope you tJJit.ness democracy in action and can go back to your classrooms and debatE! it yourselves and SEH! l:hE:~ merits of this great system we live in. Mr. Speaker, this Budget tha-t lAJas brought down by this particular Administration and hai.1ed as a great Liberal Budget - Mr. Efford: AndittJJas . Mr. A. Snow : Maybe. You can hear people interjecting now and suggesting, 'and it IAJas.' Ml".

Speaker, to some Districts it may indeed haVE! been libE~ral. Of course, one lAJould haVE! to dE•f-.inE.~ liberal. Ordinari1y, a LibeJ"al in the Canad-_ian sense could be a little diffE!rent l:han a L:i.beJ"al in another sphere or another' influence. L 21 May 25, 1990 Vo1 XLI Ml". Effol"d: (Inaud:l.bJ.e) . MJ". A. Snow: YI'JS' I lAJi.l J. attr::ornpt to explain it. A srnall I l' liberal in t.he United States probably would not be ac ,, acceptable to the populacE! of l:he United States as a small 'l' liberal in Canada. An Han. Member: ThE!rE:~ al"E! no small '1' liberals over here . Ml". A.

SnotJJ: No, you di"B lH•I"Y ri~)ht, ~3ir'. You dl"''' VE'I"Y, VE!I"Y coJ'TE!ct. ThE•J"e cH'e no srna11 '1' libet"als on that sidE! of Lhe House. rhey started out as s1na.ll 'l' l:ibera1s during the r::<lection, but when !:hey brought:. clotJJn l:hetr Budget on March 1 1), thei"E• tAJas not a sma l l '1' liber-al on tha ~~- s Ldr':• of l:hE! House th<:'n, they lAJE:'I~E· sn1a~l'.l 'c' conserval~_ives. Sorne Hon. Members : Oh, oh! Ms Verge: Regressive conservat-ives . Mr. A. conservatives, conservatives. Mr. Hogan : (Inaudible)? SnotJJ: not_ H OlJJ Regressive progressive many MenJbE•J"s MJ". A.

SnotAJ: Yes . l'hE! hon . Mernber for Placentia Mr. Speaker : Order, please! The Chai1n has lAJitnesSE!d OVE'l" thE• past_ couple of clays lAJhal~. it considers to be extraneous interruptions, inl:eJ"Inupl~_ions tAJhtch do nol:h-_ing to PI"OITIOtE· thr,, 1eve1 oF debate, interruptions which, indeed, trivialize the debate. rhis is not per'rrritl:ed ilt the ,~ules of thE:' House. I have Lo1cl hon. M~~ rnbetns - befOI"e, if Ul(!I"E:O i.s a qur:'stion which Lh<,'Y uJoulcl lAJanL t-:_o No. 4-1 IUl

ask the Member who is speaking ther(.;! is a correct procedure fo1n it, by the han. Member courteously and politely asking the hon. Member if he or she would permit a question. The han. Member speaking has the right not to permit a question. And if he does not permit a question, no one else is permitted t.o interrupt . I would ask han. Members to please cooperate, and ploase refrain f1"om interruptions which tE!nd to trivialize the debate . The han. the Member For Menihek . Mr. A. Snow: Thank you ve1ny much, Mr. Speaker.

The han. the Member for Placentia made reference to my being one of the founding Members of the local New Democratic Association in the District of Labrador West . Yes, indeed, I was one of the founding Members of the local Association, and I am quite proud of it.. I still have my card as a mattc.:~r of fact. I guess tAJe all become - I guess if you were to refer to me as a Conservative, quite oftE!n, in t:.his country, my philosophy would be a bit left of the centre. I could be called a red Tory .

I guess a lot of that is because of the E!I1VironrnE·r·l i' I tJJas raised in, here on the Island portion oF the Province. Indeed, going to live in Lab1nado1n af "teln that I becamE:' a NetAJ DE•rnocr·at and notJJ a Tory. And I do not apologize for that. I think I am a product of wht:'re I was raised and where I lived in Labrador. Because we do have a social conscience, and I learned that in Labrador .

We, in lAJest Labrador, probably produce more in the wealth of this Province, more e conorni c accrual to this Province, rno1nc,~ wealth to this Province than any other single L22 May 25, 1990 Vol XLI District in this whole Province. We probably gE!nerate rnorE! rE!VE!nue into this Province than other District.

And I have seen over the years that while we have a tremendous quality of liFH in western Labrador, the Provincial Government and, indeed, the Federal GovC::~rnment, have not really participated in improving and maintaining th~~ qual:ity of Life:;, tJJe helVE:~ had and a1ne attempting to still mainta in and improve in t:.he fu turc::> [ do no 1:. suggest that l:hE • quality of .Life necessarily decreasod in value wit h the e 1. e c ti. on of t h "i. s L i b ~=! 1n a 1 Adrnini s tration, .i ncl ec:!d, prcC! v to us adrninist1nations also cltd not: do a heck of a lot.: to improv~:! thc::o quality of life in western Labrador.

Most of the reason for thE! high quaJ.ity of :L-iFE• in western Labrador is becau se of what thE• residE!nts and the companies put into western Labrador. That has llk\dE• th at quality of life what it is today . It is unfortuna te that I have seen this feeling of aJ.ienation dE!Veloping within Lab1naclor·. OVE!In the numbers of yc:'ars I havt!

SC:"!E!I1 us go through changE!S pol Hi .cal1y in a senSE! of expression of Olll" f1nu s tra tio n, in how we , k no lAd nq thrtl- IJJe generate such t/Jeallh f•.•t' this Province and coun L1ny, do no l.. see govc::~l"r1\'rl(!l1'ls corning "Ln to heJ p and impnwe t.he quality of 1-Lf"e in western Labrador. I have seen that Frustration develop rno1nc:~ and rnotne. I SdlAJ it. develop into a polit ·i cal rnovetrtE!nl in the early 1970s, a politica1 movement : l:.hat elc:>cU•d to thois House a Member representinq the New Lab1"ado1n Pa1nt:.y, a p<:'llnty Lhal lAJas c,'XPI"essin~J thE!

F"rust.l"at:i.ons of Labradorians because of tho in~1ttenl:i.on f1norn thf:• Govel"nri"IE:!nt . of the day , l: he Go v E! r· rune n t.: 1 o caL e cl in No . '11 [~2 2

St. John's. not just the inattenU.on to the:~ pl~oblE!mS of tAles tern Labrador, but the inattention to the problems of coastal Labrador and central Labrador. And I am sure other han. Members sitting hc:~re who represent Districts in Labrador, the District of Torngat and the Districts of Eagle River and Naskaupi, can also articulate thE! feelings of their residents when they say thel"~"! is, aqain. a high dt:~gree of al:i.enation appE•f.ll~ing in Labrador. i.1 .. 1 thE• people's feE!J.ings. They feel thE•y arE! being cut off.

I just want to explain to this House why the people in Western Labrador feel especia1ly alienated from the rest of this Province because of this particular Budget. One of thE! reasons the people in western Labrador are feE!ling al':i.E!natE•d from the Island portion . of the Province is because, as I have said earlie1~. they produce such wealth for this province, yet they see a Government service which was delivered for years being removed.

They saw this Government brj.ng down a Budget on March 15 which increas1::•d the amount of rc:~venue that :i.s going to be taken out of the District of Men'ihek, to the tune of about $3 million. About $3 million annually in payroll tax is going to be removed fi"Om Lht:~ Distt"ict. of Menihek. This is wealth the:~ pE!Ople of Menihek are producing, and they are seeing this directly removed from Men'ihek with no improvement of service. Provincial Government service in Menihek decreased. Mr. BakE!r·: fh(:' rnoney Montreal . 1..23 May 25, l'J90 delivery of has been came ft~om Vol XLI Mr. A. SnotAJ: The hon.

Lhe ME!iflb"•r fat~ Gander sU~JqE:'S ts tho ITIOn(:•y COifllO!S fi"Om Montreal. nw moi'H':!Y does not carne frorn Monti"E!al. That weaJ.l:h is generated by the mim!l~s in Western Labrador. It is generated by the miner·s in WE!StE!I~n Labrador. by the peopJ.e IAJho t.1.JOI"k. not the parasi t:es the Premier talked about. These are sorne of thE! producers, the rninE!I"S of this Province, lAJho tAJE~I"E' att:.aci<E!CI by this Government wi l h the payroll tax. Then IAJE! sat,;J tht:• CovE:!t"nrnr::!nt remove a service La Lhe people, thE! Labrado1~ Ail" PasSE!n~JE!I~ Subsidy Program.

In order For a person in western Labt"aclot" to 'l.Tavc:~l to thE~ Island portion of the Province, an adult, it will cost thE!Tn ~P2tf.OO. We had somebody stand in th'is House and suggest the people in Labrador, yes, they do have difficulty in travel, bul': it is not much diffe1"ent l:.l·1an sornt.:!body tn 5t .. Anthony. Thts upSE!t a Jed .. of peoplE:~ :in Labrador. ThE!I~E' is a distinct difference in travelling from St. Anthony to St. John's than from west:E!rn Labt"adoJ". Wabush or L.abr·ador City. l:o ~3 t. John's, from Na:in to St. John's ---- a distinct: difference than travelling from 5t: . Ant:hony.

Tht:~l"~~ is a $1,000 diFFE.~rE!rlCE! For sorn~:!body who has t-:o coJTIE' out and vis i. t. an a i.1 in g rna the r o I" Fa ti·H:• r. OJ" fot" students t.1.Jho i,;Jou1cl likr::· to go horne to v'isit their paronts ancl come back and finish their E!ducation in St. John's. becauSE! we do not have adequate post-secondary educat:.i.on facilities in Labt"adot". TheJ"e is a distinct difference. As a matter of fact. the differE!nCE! fOI" a farntly of- fOUl" to t.ravel notAJ to St ..

John's rat.hE:'I" than if they had tJ~avE!.lled pr·ior' to the rernovaJ. of' thE~ subsidy, is !.:hey have to pay an additional $450.00 - $450.00 !.:hey have to No . 4-1 "23

pay, because of the removal of this subsidy. Now that is not much to a person who is sitting in the Cabinet and is given a free car by the taxpayers of Labrador and Newfoundland, but $450.00 is a lot of money to a person who resides in Labradol" and works in the mines, or WOI"ks in the service industry. It is a lot of money, that extra $450.00 they have to pay. They realize their electoral distl"iCt PI"Oduces ITIOI"e lAJI'::1<.:\1th fOI" this Province than any other electoral district in this Province, and then they see the attack this Administration placed upon them.

No other· distl"ict has been attacked and had a benefit removed from it as did Menihek. No other single district has been attacked by this Administration in the removing of services as Menihek has, a district l~o.Jhoich produces such great economic wealth. I am sure, Mr. Speaker, that if times we1"e different, and if thr:1 48 per cent of the people elected in this Province had been sitting on that soide of the House today and bringing down a Budget, it would have been a lot different for the people of Menihek.

Indeed, 'it t~o..~ould have I::H:'C:Hl a lot different For pE!Ople travelling Fl'·om oLher parLs of Labrador, because the subsidy was availablf.~ l~o all resident:.s of Labrador l~o.Jho would travel to the Island portion of the Province. We can see the feeling of alienation developing now in Labrador which started to occur in the late sixties and early seventies, and tha 1-. is wrong. Because we are one Province.

While we might be geographically divided, we are one single Province, one people, made up of different peoples from different L2 t~ May 25, 1990 Vol X L.I r·aCE!S and rE•ligions, but, indeed, one Province. When you hear sorne of t.he rc:'asons which have been brought up in this House as to why the subsidy had to be discontinued, you can sE•e why the people of Labrador are so frustrated, because the reasoning which has been raised holds no water.

As an E•xampJ.c;!, one of thE:' I''E•asons raised in this Housr::. as to tAJhy Lhr::• subsidy should not:: br:! cont.i .nuecl tJJas the ·Fact tha l:. thr:~ Pt"ovinc -l al Government ernployeE!S arc,' ~1oin~J to be given a travel allowance La travel to the Island portion of the Province. fhe people in Labrador who work for the Provincial Government are notlo..l, it tJJas suggested, going to be paJd i9. travel allowancE! l~o travel l:.o L:hr::• Island pot"tion of thr:' Pr·ov:i.nce, so the people of all of Labrador haue to pay for it .

Because what they are suggesting is that because they give the employees a bonus or' a raise, i.n the minds of the employer'! in Labrador, and indeed the r'E!S.i.dent of Labrador. they giVE! . them <rn equaltzE:11". The major employers who employ peoplr,• in Labrador' , Lhr:! tnajor mining companies, the FecleraJ. Governm~:!nt, l~hr::-.ir r:'mp1oyeE!S harJrc! had that betwfit f'ot" year's. Not~o.J tlo..le see l~hal~ ftnally LhE!

Provincial Government recognizes that their employees in Labrador should be getting a benefit, but., thE!Y suggest. , tlo..le l~o.Joi.ll give you L h r:• benefit, but the peopJ.e of Labrador have to pay it. Now, that is completely unfair. Here we are underserv.iced by Government services, No . /1.1 in L.abr·aclot". de] iVE!l"Y ol and rlOLII they R 2'1·

~- expect, because they pay equally to their employees in Labrador, that only the peoplE! of Labrador haVE! to pay that raise. And that is completely unfair. They take a $400,000 vote of money that lAJas in travel subsidy, give it to the employr:'es as a benefit, and then suggest that only the people of Labrador pay it. That is t~.Jrong, Mr. Speaker, that is fundamentaLly lAJl"ong; it :is unfair to treat people in a District like Labrador so unfairly.

Tht::~re was also tht::~ suggestion that one of the reasons why the subsidy was cut out, OJ" J"ernoved, was the fact that people who did get a trip from their employers, such as the Federal Government, or the mining company, would apply for a subsidy, get the money from the Provincial Govr:~nnnent and thr:'n, indeed, be making a profit. I JAJill not stand here in my place and suggest that somebody may not have abused this particular program but I JArill say this: It is wrong to discontinue the program because there was minor abuse oF it. What you do is cut out the abuse.

I would suggest to you that people throughout this countJ"Y have bE!C:!I'l abusing tht::' privileges of a lot of our programs which arr-.:~ available, such as UI. But we did not: cut out UI. It would not be tolerated. What we do is cut out the abuse on a particular program at any level of Government; we do not cut ou ·t: the program. Maybe that is to~Jhat should have been done. Undoubtedly, that is what should have been done. Ml".

Speaker, anotheJ" thing brought down in t.his Budget tJJh·ich I thought v~~ry unFaiJ" was that !:herE:' to~Jas no incJ"E•ase in the amount of L2 ~) May 2 1), 1990 Vo1 XLI money i t was suggested would be spent for a crisis shelter in JAJestern LabJ"aclol", a Cl"isis shE•ltel" which has a history in western Labrador since 1982, operated stJ"ictly by volunter:~r E!fforts Fr·om the local community, by the people, by the local town councils, by the unions and by the mining companies. In 1985, they received funding.

After three years of complete local support, t: h E:' p I" t:• v i o u s A clm.i. n i. s t 1" at ·.i o n s i:-1 1"'1 fit to participate t·:hl"ough l:hc:~ Department of Social Services. Today, tAll':! aJ"E! se~dng, be• cauSE! of a lack of Funds being declicatr:•cl by this particular Administration, that crisis shelter closed. There is a need in western Labrador for a crJsj.s sheltE!Y'. Otherwise, the people of Western Labr·ador nE!Ver lAJou1d have start.ecl it in 1982.

It is un f ortunate that t:.his Adrninistr·al~-Lon sees F:iL to cast away the:i.r Liberal promises and bring clown this conseJ"vative Budget and bohaVE!, as I have nE!Ver seE:'n any GoveJ"rHfiE!nl: behave in th:i.s particular Province, so conservatively. It is unfair to !:he peop1E! of Wf~~; t eJ"n Labrador, jt:. is unfair to the people of th:i.s Province. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Some Han. Members: Hedr, hear' M r . S p e a k "=' r : B e F o I" 1::. J I" e c o q rl"i z E• the han. Member For Ferrylancl I JAJou1d like to, on behalF ol hon.

Members, welcome to the gallery l:.his morning, JE!I"ry D:inn, Lhe former Member For Pleasantville and a Former Cabinet Minisl:er. Some Hon. Members: Hear, h(:'i3.1"! Ml". Speaker: The han. the Membel" For F eJ"I"ylancl . Mr. Poto~H.'r : rhank you, Mr . No. 4.1 I~ 2 ~)

Speakeln. BE!fOine I beg"in my comments, I IAiould Like to welcomE:' all my young constitUE!nts here from Mobile Central High School, the school at which I taught For five years. I know most of the young ladies and gentlemen. It is a pleasure to see them here, and I hope they learn something about the democratic process. In the few comments I have to make about the Budget Speech I want to, Mr.

Speaker, compare what is in the Budget document here and IAJhat is in this document, this LibE•ral maniFesto which came out during the election campaign in 1989. rhis docurnE!nt lAJas, :in rnany ways, fraudulent; in many ways it promised so rnany ·things it could not and has not delivered, and will not deliver. This Budget document we have, as well does a wonderful job of deceiving the vast majority of Newfoundland's people. But the deception only lasted for a fE!W weeks. The blush came off the Budget pretty fast when we found out what really was in it. Mr.

Speaker, since last Apri1 there havr:O! not bE!en any real changes in this Province. That is the fundamental flaw lAiith this document, and lAiith the fundamental deception that went on in the election campaign of 1989. When the election campaign was held, all we heard about was a real change, a change for the better, things were really going to change.

The other day, when the Member for Stephenvi1le lA!as speaking, he talked about how unreal things are and he used the word unreal many, many tirn~~s, and the lAJord 'unre•al' is much more symptomatic oF lAJhat has happE!ned in this Province in the last tlAJe1vt::~ months. What has this Government done? What does L26 May 25, 1990 Vol XLI l:.hts Buclgl=!t do fo1n l:.he Ftsht.'I"Y or~· NelArfounclland and L.abJ"ador·? HOIAJ rnany peopl(:' in NelAJfoundlancl are better ofF in the fishery today than they were twelve months ago?

Look at what has happE!ned dOlAI11 j n the District of Ferryland, where we had problems in the plants 'in Fermuse and in Ferryland, and in St. Mary's - rhe Capes wtth the other tlAio plants owned by Univer·sal Fishertos. Nol~ ot :::• single cent of assistance has been offered by this GOVE!rntrH:'nt. Whc:·n thr:!y asked for' a Joan gUf.'ltnanLE!E', i.t. lAJas refused. When tht::'Y askc:'d fot" any ldnd of E!XtE!ns"ions of the loans which w~'!t~e outstanding, they lAlE'Ine rE!fUsed.

When nE!lAJ opel~at.olnS were interested in going in and putting in new proposals, they were told thE!re lAJas no rnonE!Y for the Univelnsal group of cornpani.E!S; you can forget it. We are• sil'llply not supporting the fishery. We already have too many fish plants; WE! have too rnany people dr:•pE!ndinq on the fishery; and the people aJn(! going to have to diversify and find jobs somewhere else.

Now, what I lAiant to knolAI from this Government: In this Budget process, whE!re you ar'E! spending $3 billion, I knolAJ thr:~ DistJ"'icl : of FE•rinyland has br:•E•n tnaJ ignr,,d by Lhe LtbE!ral party l-Ind l·.he t_j_bt:•r·al Go v e r nrn E! n t o f N t:• w f o u n ell a n cl a 1·1 cl Labrador. I knolAI you have not helped thE:' fish~~I"Y· Whe1ne Ol.ll" distr·:lcl: has traditionally OtJt:!l" thr:' last Len yea1ns been ab] r::! t.:o g e t i n e x c e s s o F $ 2 rn i 11 i o n r~ o r water and SE!lAIEH', fol" paving, f"otn special projects, l:.his year· lAJE:~ qot $20, 000 - $20, 000.

Ther'E! is no l one single square fool: of pavetnonl: going to be laid in Ferryland DistJ"ict l:his year, Lh(:!tnH is not one sin~]le cotTtmunity gl:!tl:.:inq lAJdl..E!t" and St::!lAJer ITtonoy, and Lhis is supposed to be a Covr:•rnrnE:!nL lAJh.ich No. 41 1~26

relies on the wonderful cliche you use, fairness and balance? Go down to l:he community of Ferryland and look at the health problr::1ms they have to~.Ji th their water and sewer. yet you see not one single cent, and not one single cen ·t for the community of the Goulds, one of the fastest growing communities in eastern Canada. not a single cent For water and sewer. So when you talk about fairness and balance, this Budget document certainly doesn 1 t bl''ing fairness and balance to thE' District of Ferryland.

And when you talk about some of the industries in this Province, it really makes you wonder how this document could have been purported to be fairness and balance Fa~ the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. Mr. SpE!aker, when it comes to change in this Province, the real change, I want to give you one glot~.r:lng example: The Minis ·ter of Energy is here now and I would like him, maybe somewhere later on in t.he budgetary process, to comment on the second page of the Liberal document on policy , the manifesto for the Liberal Government in the 1989 election campaign.

It is page two. fhe highlight: One of the first things l":.his Liberal Covernrn~:,nt lAJas going to do as soon as thE!Y got :into pot.uer, when thE! Conservatives were out. th€:! Libr:~ral GovernrrH:1nt. as per page two of their manifesto - it is called Churchill Falls and Labrador Hydro Power - says, "There arE! ttA.JO majo1n pinoblE'mS in relation to the development and use of hydro power in Labrador.

One is its inability to deliver thE! pow€:!r to its ultimate rnaJnkE!t in a manner that to~.Jould provide NelAJfouncllancl lAJ:U:.h thE! benefits oF 1. 2'7 May 25, 1990 Vol XLI the development and sale of the power. 11 To thosr~ t.uho i'l'li'ty not understand, it simply means transfer of power across provincial boundaries. In the Constitution of· Canada, W€:' arE' supposed to have interprovincial trade without any barriers.

In western Canada, you can put a pipeLine carrying liqutd gas fr·om Alberta across Manitoba, SaskatchetAJan and anyp1ace ~::~lse you want, and you can do :i t. br::,cause or the Constttution of Canada. Wt~ have aliAJays b"~en blocked t~ · ·~ NE!IAJfouncl1ancl. WE' WE!I"€:' blocked :i.n 1968 or 1969 whE!n lAH:! cl i d the Upp,:•l'"' Churchill fir·st, tAJhen Uw oJ.cl Liberal Government gave away the birthright of all the young people in t.his gallE'Jny and a]] l:he young people in this Plnovincr:'. But, at. least, you realize you made ~ tremendous mistake back in the 1960s, Wh(!l'l the presenL Pl~E!IIl·i.

E•J~ was a llll':'rnbe r of l he Cabin Ed:.. 1-1 r;, is try:"i.ng to rectify a rntsl:.akE! he made, so he puts it. on thE! front. page of his document. The second parl: oF il: says, "Secondly, Newfouncl1and and Labrador has so far been unabl:?. l:.u access the power that has been developed within the Prouinc0 to rne'C't the nE!ecls of OUI" OlAJn pE:!op1e. 11 The second paragraph of documt'nl:. is Vt:'ry interesting you SE!E' what has happened tn las l":. t.tA.J~:!lve months, l":he las l .. months in pai"bcu1aln, tAJ '"i. th Meech Lake Accord.

Lhis when Lhe six the This is the state111enl~ of l..he LtbeJna1 rnarl"ifE'Sto: 1'Both of these problt~Jns could have ber::,n J~esoltJE'cl if t.he GOV€:'1nn1Tlt'nt of th:i.s Pl"ovince had tak1:!11 l:he ln'ighl:. couJ~se oF action in the First instance instead of seeking Futile court. con f rontations w:i.th the Province No. IJ.l 1~2 7

of QuE:~bec. 11 Now, Mr. Speaker, I want to go back a little bit. to the ChurchLll Falls Agreement and ask a question of the Minister of Mines and Energy that maybe he will answer. and maybe the Premier might sometime . How much progress have we made since this Liberal Government took power with reassessing or accessing some of the Upper Churchill power? How much money in lnE:wenues o.I~E: we going l:o get i.n excess of what t.uC~! were getting in April of 1989? What progress have we made with the Government of Canada to get our constitutional right to transmit power across the provinces?

How has the Premier's quiet, somewhat cynical quiet, the irony of the Premier's version of diplomacy, the Premier's version of getting the rightful benefits for Newfoundland and Labrador. how has the Premier's system worked, the Premier's system of fighting Meech Lake, of demanding things which, at least in lhe short-tE!lnm, are unreasonable and are not based on any factual

interpretation of law in Canada as we know it, the Prem :ier' s demand l:ha t we haVE! to have Senate reform; we have to have a duly elected Senale? For some of those students, especially the younger ones from Mobile, in the gallery, who may not understand what an elected Senate means to Canada, Mr. Speaker, it means, basically, that in the U.S. they have worked out a very good system. They have a Constitution. They have had twenty-eight amendments to their Constitution over a period of time. and they try to balance out the powE.~r' of people tAri th the pot.uer of jurisdictions.

It simply means thai· if you have a really large province in Canada, like Onlario 1.2 8 May 25, 1990 Vol X I... I with its eight rni1lion pN >ple, I suppose, and Newfoundland with 500,000 or 600,000 people, then, obviously, Ontar'·.io is a.ltAJays gotng to have moinE! to say J.n thE! parliamentary democratic process . Sometimes, when the numbers are imbalanced as rnuch as Lhey ar~':! in Canada. with Newfoundland betng PEI is much smaller; PEI only has 140,000 people, I believe, so in relation to Ontario. they are etJE!I1 WOJ"sr:: off ·. But RhodE! lsJ.and is a rea1ly small state of the Arner'ic;::,:l union.

California and New York are tremE!ndously l.a.r'ge s t.aL C!S. So, to try to balance out how a country is run, to mak e sure:· r:~veryonr:~ is trr:,ated fc:d .t"1y. t.h(•y. in the U.S., dr::cicl1:=!d l:o have an elected Senate where each state had two senators . Ontar 'io rnay have eighty-four Members of Parliament, Newfoundland has setJ<:•n and PEl has foul", so, obv tously, . in the Parliarn1:H·,l~ of Can dela voting patterns are going to favour Ontario, and the large Province oF QuE~bec. as well..

But a duly elecl:ed, equal and effE!cl-it.!t:' Senate, where every province has the sa.me number of senators, balances the thing out . So Net.ufoundland would Nid up tAri lh five senators. On tarJ.o would haVE! five senators, OJ" whab''VE!I " nuiJJbr:•J" they came up wi.l..h, and HH '!I1 i.L. -i.s supposed to be bal ancPd . ~3o, as you pa ss laws through th e Parliament, the dernocr·al-ic pi"oces·c> of Canada, you end up with an elected Sonate which has somt::' Si tY and which balances out the constitutional unfairne ss of numbers and population and demographics.

But !:his Govt::'rnJJJen l. and l:hJ.s Premier. in h:i.s CllAJil wc.-1y is destroy :in g Canada . U' he cl o e s not r E! ali z e that -· I k no"'' he i s supposEH1 to meet lAJil:h l:he Prtme Minister on Sunday. We have talkE!d to h·:i.m in l:.lris Hou s1?., sorne of lhe L:l.ber'al caucus have t:a] keel No. 41 IUS

to him to change somE! of hi.s ways on Meech Lake, but hE~ is not go'.ing to do it. But he has put Canada - Mr. W. Carter: (Inaudible) . Mr. Power: And the Minister of Fisheries can say I am wrong about where he has put Canada.

But Canada is at the edgE! of an abyss that we are ver·y likely going to fall over, and if we do fall over, if on June 24- Meech Lake has not been passE~d. lhE!re u.Ji.l1 be a rush of persons in Quebec who are going to real1y be happy that they haVE! an excuse to leave Canada, and some who are going to say the hell with Canada anyway because it s:imply does not WOI"k for t:he French speaking people of Canada. I have argued that case here in the Meech Lake debate, some of my colleagues have on th'.is side, and I know quietly on the othe1n side some persons have lobbied thE!

Premier to be a little bit less relenting about trying to solve all the constitutional process at one constitutional meeting. As I mentiom~d earl'.ier there are twenty eight amendments to the American constitution. Consti tut.ions change OVE!r tilTH:~. It changed in 1982 when it was repatriated from Brit:ian. It will change again aFter 1989 and 1990, Meech Lake was simply onE:' step in a long proct:'SS oF building a country. ThE:~ Premier wants to 1nake it a final step, the only step, the last s tE:~p and ·that in l:he constitutional process 1Aiil1 not work.

So hE!re we arE! in this Liberal manifesto saying that we are going to change a veiny unfair hydro agreem':'nt iJ..Ii th Quebec. ThE:~ othe1n clay IJ..Jhr::~n I wa.s ht:~rE:~, and I got some press last weekend, unfortunately thr:~ pl"E!SS coVE!l"E!d not the important part, they covered IAJhat IJ..Jas neiJ..JS but t.hey did L29 May 25, 1990 Vo1 XLI not cover the important part of what I said. And I said that Sprung was a disaster, was a waste of money. It. IAJas a folly that we got into for all kinds of stlnangE· reasons. It 1..vas a wastE! of $22,000,000.00 of the taxpayers of Newfoundlands money.

And as a Conseruatiue party we have to take the blame For that. OnE! oF thE• rE!asons we are on this sid€~ of LI1E! House is because the pub1ic oF NeiAJfouncl1and gave us t.hP bJ.<HIIe and said listen you are not doing th:lnqs the IAJay IAJE· €:!xpect. t.hem t.o be don~:!. One of the reasons, the Liberal pa1nty was turfed out of office in 19 7 l IJ..Ja s because 0 r~ l: his up p "'' \'' Churchill AgrE!l':~ITl€~nt. That peopJ.e rea1ized that Joey Sma1lwood and his Cabim't, of which the Pl"em:iE•I" 1..vas part:., the preSE!Ilt PlnE!m'.if:!r, made a tremendous mistake.

But the real htstorica1 significance of the mistake '.is not in $22,000,000.00 ·.in one year, in on::! Administration and Sprung, its $700,000,000.00 ev«:~ry Yl':'ar' as long as the price of oil $lj.00, 000,000.00 every YE!ar tha 1- w:O! haVE! lost on the Uppt::~r· Chu1nchiJ.l Agreern~:!nt. And a11 thesE! pE!l~sons in the gallery and every other young pr::~1nson in NE•i..vfoundl.and dnd L.abJ"acloJ~, one of the tlrings that they wil1 bear to the day Lhal they die. they will pay taxes every year that they work and every week that t.hey geL paid.

They will pay tax1:•s For· se1nvices that they should not have to pay. They will pay more money in income tax. l:hey wi11 pay more 1norH~Y in SSA tax. you have to pay to Newfoundland because we 1ost so much revenue. That guilt and that blame is on the L:i.bE!r·a1 party of Newfoundland and Labrador, the Liberal Covernrnent ol th,,, cl<:~y. Some people say that you cannot. No. lj.l I~ 2 <)

have perfect foresight. But not having a reopener clause in a fifty year contract, until the year 2019 or 2027? Mr. Speaker: Order, please! The han. the Member for Mount Scio - Bell Island, on a point of order. Mr. Walsh: Not to interrupt the Member tor Ferryland while he;:, is in full flight, but I would not tAJan l. the sl~.udc::~nl:s in the gallei~y or anyone else who might be listening to be lead to believe that the only people in this Chamber who voted for the Upper Churchill was the Liberal Government oF the day. It was a unanimous choice of this House to do that, including I understand the han.

John Crosbie, Senator Get"l~y Ottenheimer who was in the HouSE! at that time, and a nurnbE!r of other very prominent Tories. If I am incorrect then I apologize to the Speaker, but a unanimous decision of this House was made as to who would and would not support that resolution, and they all did. Now if I am incorrect in that. by all means carry on. But it was a choice of this House, and iF my memor·y is cot~rect l:he hon. John Crosbie was the Minister responsiblE! for that portfolio at that tirne.

So lets make it very clear to Lhe studE!nts that it~ t.>Jas a unanimous decision of this House that that contract be entered into. Mr. Power: Mr. rather frivolous the Member. Speaker to that point of order by Mr. Speaker: order. There is no point of The hon. Member for Ferryland. Mr. PotA.Jer: Thank you, Mr . 1_30 May 25, 1990 Vol XI..I Speaker. There is no point of order. rhe Mc::~J'nbc::•t~s opposil:e l'ldV~! a chancE! to spE·ak in this bucl~~E·t debate. In this Budget tA.Jhich l:hc::~y so proudly laudr:~d the Minister of Finance on when he delivered it.

This Budget which was supposed to be the best piece of goods Newfoundland had ever seen . You all have a chance including the Member who just rose on that silly point of order to speak in the Budget DE!IJatE!. You hav~:! a chdncr:­ to dE! FE! n d your· Go v e I" n rn E! n t. i~ n c1 tAl h a l: you a1"e doin~~. Here is the other part oF the silly point of order he brings up. The sil1i.nE!SS of it is, it.s not what the Opposition did in 1968, and it is not what Lhe Opposition does in 1990 . 11- is what the Government does.

The Government shows leadership, the Government shows the direction, the Government has to take the Prouince in a certain funclarnent:a1 way to rnake SUI"'" tAlC::' devt::>lop properly, so you cannot b1c:une five Members of a Conservative OpposiU.on i.n 1.968 for' Laldnq part, and for signing an unanimous agreement in this House. If that were true and if Lhat lol]ic prevail~~d. UtE!n t.>Jhy is nol: Meech Lake passed in NewFoundJancl, becausE· t:he LibE!ral Oppos ·.i lion in Newfoundland voted for Meech L a k e .

S o rn e o F t h e M E! rn b E· 1~ s L h a t are presently on that side, who are now tearing t.his country apdrl: went over there, and a flr'E'Inir:=!r issued a directive that Meech Lake was not going to be pas sed, thc:.-lt all this thing is the c:-1.ecl':.ed Senate I tAJas just LaJ.king about, Lhe distinct society clause was unfair to Canada. thE! spending powers in provincial jurisdiction tA.Jas Wl~ong, and the PI~E!rrtieJ" oF t.his Province issued an edict to ~ll the Members opposite, including No. 4.1 1no

tht1 ones LAJho had sat ovE•r ht1rE! in Opposition and voted for Meech Lake and spoke on Meech Lake. M1~. Speake1n, it would be very interesting to see the Members who are over there now, who actually voted for Meech Lake on this side, and see their two speeches. The speech they made when they were here supporting Meech Lake, and the speech they 111ade tAJhen 'l:he prE!Sent Premier' J.c:d.d cloLAm thr:· lat.~..l and satd Meech Lake is not going to be suppolntr:Jcl. That lAJouJ.d bE~ a VE!ry intc:!r'r:.~sting spe~~ch to have somebody compare . An Han . Member: (Inaudible) . Mr. Power: It does not matter.

Om! is enough. If you are going to be right you should be right and stand on you1" principles, and not. on the dii"E!Ctions of ont' person. What happened here was the Libet"al PaJ~t.y supported ME!ech Lake when it tAJas voted on in t~his House until it was changed, changed by a Premier who has a misguided notion of constitutional process, who wants to solve all the problems to make up for all of his past sins tn one Fell swoop, and change the whole democratic process of Canada. It will not happen, by the way.

ME!ech Lake 1nay not happEH1 and C.:u1ada tAJill br::~ changed, fundamentally changed forever, and if pr:-ople think it cannot happE•n, for anybody who studies, and there are some history teachers over there, for anybody who studies history and thinks that countries cannot be broken up, look at what is happening in Eastern Europe. WhE!re is East Ger·rnany today, and where is East~ Ger'l!'lany going to be? Where is Latvia and those countries going to be? Parts of Russia arE! brPaking apart. It is L31 May 25, 1')90 Vol XLI going to be a cli.ffert~nt LAJor·lcl, a difftH'E•nt rnap.

So1ne pE!Op1e l:hink that. that only happE!ns in EastE!I"n EUI"ope and in Communist countr·ies and that it cannot happen 'in Canada. Who says that we cannot have a separate country of Quebec? Unfortunately, a totally English country of Canada is not a good idea. Il:. is not t~hat rnany Members opposite think. An l-Ion. Mernbel": We cl~Jl"E•e. Mtn. PoLAJer: You aqJ"eE:· that you do not lAJanl~ Quebr:;!C t:o leaVE! Canada? But you are facilitating it in everything you do. It is ju st like these documents, you say one thing and you do sornel~hing else.

You said in your eJection campaign you were going to do something with Upper Chut"chi11 and L.abJ"adoJn powe1" and t.iJha 1:. has J"r:~a lly ha~pened? Will the Minisler of Energy tell Lhis House and the pE! o p1 E! of NetAJ f o u nd land, s OITIE!l~h en:! along the LAJay, has ClydE• Wells, is this Premier 1 s process lo diplomacy, any wors e than the futile, his words, thE• futilE! court confrontal:ions of l:.hE! fol":nc:•r' Government LAJhen we tAlent to cour·t using a legal process l~o li"Y a.r·,r.J gel Uppetn ChuJ"chi11 and geL OlH' reasonable rights For NeLAJFoundJ.and?

So tilE' fuUJ.e couJ"l: confront.ations of Lht=! Foi"IIJOi··· Gov~~rnJrJE!nt, but IAJha t about l\'J(! futile Meech Lake confrontations of today? Wha l about t.hE• corr11nen t of the Minist el'' oF Finan ce, t~hich I LAJould not ev~;:'n rE!peat :Ln r·l"on t of the young people in the ga11et"Y. This COI'ni'II~O'n t by t:Jw Minister of Finance, one of the sPnior Ministers in this GovernlnE!nt, that:. tAl(' ai"E! us oi.nq ME!C'Ch Ld kE•, and his conJITJE:·nt:.s hetV(! gone all across the country. The Liber·al Pal~ty is probably 111oro popular in NeJAJfound1ancl becdUSE· No. 11-1 R3 1

thE~ Minister of Finance made those comments. When he says we are using Meech Lake to get even LAlit.h Quebec on Upper Churchill hydro power, that we are getting E~ven, tJJe are going to settle the score, we are going to get our fair share, and for once we are in a position of control, the Liberal Party in Newfoundland is more popular because of that. An Han. Member: fh~;:~ Minister retracted that statement. Mr.

Power: ThE:' MinistE~r retractE~d it, but it was said, it was believed, and a lot of Newfoundlanders, unFortunately, many of them ill informed about the Meech Lake process, listening to the Premier's misguided approach to the thing, are saying they believe what the Minister of Finance said, that :it is time for us to get evE•n, and that is vE~ry, very unfortunate. What is happening in Quebec today and what is happening in Canada is a crisis. A lot of people do not realize what a crisis it really is, and I think a lot of Members opposite think that it is not going to happen.

They think that countries lAiill not br''~ak apart, it does not happen, and it tJJ:i.11 never happ1:!n in Canada. But, l:he reality i.s l:hat it tJJi.11 happE!n in Canada, and it LAJill be facilitated by this Prerrd.er, thts GoVE!rnrnE!nt, and Members of l:he caucus, lJJho a1ne saying on onE! hand WE! do not lAJant to break Canada up but on the other hand they are making it very easy for Quebec to leave Canada .

And tJJhen will be dominated primarily you tha l­ difficu1t its E!qual Quebec leaves Canada, we stuck with an English Canada, dominated by Ontario, and I as sure it will be just as For Newfoundland to gE~ts plac C:'! in Canada tAli th an L32 May 2r.>, 1990 Vol XLI English only count1ny, dom.inatE!d by onE~ tremendously lar'gE! provincu with, I b(:~lieve, just about Fifty per cent of the population in Ontario, and if you think that that is going to be any easier for us to get a fair shake in Canada, then I say it is not very lik~;:1ly to happen. An Han. Member: (Inaudible) . Mr.

Power: Why ha'Jt:~ lAW be'''ll second cJ.ass c:i.ti.:zr:!ns? A~Ja:in ti·H:! Prerniel" is to corrE!Cl: of 194-9. Government years that the rules with. going back and tJnyi .n•J anothe1n L.·ibE!ral rrd.s Lake It was Lhe Liberal of Joey Smallwood of 23 got us into Canada wil:h that tAle E~n l:E!Ined Canada Now if he made a pi.le oF mistakes, which I think he did, such as giving atAJay the rights t.o f is h E• r i e s con t r o 1 in 1 9 Lj. 9 b u 'l. keeping control of health and education, I think it lAJou1d havE· been done a lot better.

I think our standard of E!ducation i.n this ProvincE! would b~;:' a lot highel" if education was a FederaJ. responsibility. We would have more funds, we would have more balance across Canada, we would have a better argument For transfer payments and equalization. I think this year in the Budget - t•JU get $230 mtl1Jon fro111 the Go v e r' n m E• n t of C a n ad a ,.~ o r e d u c a t. i o n and health transfer'S, rnostly gcdng to post secondary. But .it is nol: nearly enough. Our standard of education is lower in Newfoundland than i.n any other part of Canada.

So, again if lAJI':' rnaciE! rrd.stai<E:'S 1949, they tAJere mistakes rnade the Liberal Government and trying to be corl"PCl:,~d. And reaJ.i.ty is - again I hope Minister of Energy does tell in by now the the us No. 4.1 R32

,, somewhE!I"e OVE!I" !:he l'lt:!Xl: Few days that we have made tremendous gains, that:. the Pr·emir:~l" 1 s appi"oach to Quebec has really got us a better share of Upper Churchill revenues, got us access to take our power across the Province of Quebec. But I suspect that an awful lol: of what the Premi~~r is doing today is going to carne back to haunt Newfoundland some1.uhere down the road. ThE! HibE!I"nia nE•goti.aU.ons that arE• pending, the only thing that I evel" hear about HHH:!rnia is that il: is all signed, sr:,aled and delivered with the exception of Meech Lake.

Is Meech Lake going to jeopardizr:~ HibE!rnia? If Hibernia is jeopardized !:his Province has the one shiny economic light that is shining since this party took over the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador, will be put out. It is the only light that you have, they put out all. the rE!St of the lights, there art:~ no economic lights in the fishery anymore, forestry is certainly not great.

Tourism, you are only building on the process that: we have established, we did establish in the last Few years of our Government of having a very active, interesting, aggressive tourism HlarkE!ting schE•rne to gE•t some people to come visit our Pl"OVince and to stay hel"E! fol" a langei" period of time. And that has worked. It is one of thE! fE!W things that has worked. But the econo1nic lights of t:his Province, one is Hibern:i.a, and al1 I hear· is Mer:'ch Lake, and all l:hE• Members opposite hE!ar it, is Meech Lake going to jeopardize Hibernia.

WE! can only hopE! and pi"ay that it does not do it, but I mean the l"eality is t.hat the Gov E!rnrnE· n l·: of Canada has COifllni t h:•d L33 May 2S, 1990 Uo1 XLI $2.6 billion t.o lhe Hibernia proj E:'ct. That. is a J.ot of money, and t.uho is to say l:.haL the Government of Canada may not change its mind and say that is just too much money for us to have in one project at this stage in our history when everything is in turmoi.l and chaos.

And t.ha l: t.uould be blackmail possibly, but it also rnighl: be economic SE!nsibilittE:~s on beha1f of thE· Min:istE!r of Finance:! of Canada to say to cornrni.l: the GoVE!I"nl'nE!nt: of· C<.H1ada to ~1;?.6 b i.11 ton t.u hen t h ~'I" e h ,, v E! j us t b u r:• n riots in QuebE!C, I;.Jh<:!n l':.hei"E• has just been tremendous pressure to J.eave Canada that rnaybE! it :is not the sensible thing to do. Now, hopefully it will never happen.

I arn a vel"Y stt"ong believer that that will not happen, that the deaJ IAJhich should be on its econotnic lnE:'r·i.t:s, thai: il= :is donE!, thE! companies <:11"<':! interesl:E!d, l:.hE! GOVE!I"nlnenl: oF Canada has madE• a cornrni.l:rnen t:., and the Government oF Newfound1and has made certain concessions and certain comrnitmE!nts as uJell., and it should work. But, Ml". SpeakE!r, those ai"E! l:he econo1nic lights. Whal· I SC:!e her·e, this rE!al changE•, this Libei"a1 d o c Ul n 1:! n t t h a l:.

I h a v ''! h E• r E! , ,HJ d [ could read it but it gets almost - it is so sil.ly, ·it· is il"onic and cynical, the th:ings that you sa.id on schoo1 l:ax, on health car(:•, on social services, on t.he l"esoui"CE! ·.indus ·tries. You sa:id so much in your document, so much to get elected and so much of it has nol: happE! ned. The MinistE!r of Fi.nance has donE! his second Budgc:!t. rhe1·'H i~; not.h'in~~ 'i.n Lhat second Bucl~1et t.uhich is got1·1•J l:o ll'k\ke c.:1 subs t.an ti.a1 chanqe t.o Net.uf'ounclland and Labr·adoi". Whl:'n I look a l:. l.h<;• No. 41. IB3

jobs in this Province - I heard the President of Treasury Board saying the othE:H' day thal:. we had 6000 full time jobs moi~E! in this January than we had last year. Mr. Speaker, who does he think he is fooling? Does anybody in this ProvinCE!, on either side of this House, in the galleries or anyplace else, really believe that Newfoundland's unemployment rate -has substantially reduce!d since the Liberal party took power in Ne1AJf o u nd Ja nd?

ThE! only substantial e•rnployrnent that is there is for the Economic Recovery Te!am~ and they have hired tWE!nty or thi1~ty peoplE:' and spc:.~nt a couple of million dollars. But in real ter·ms, are there more people working in the fishery today or less? fhe answer is there are less. Are there more people working in forestry today or less? There are less. Are there rnore people working in any of the industries that we have with the exception probably of tourism? ThE:1 answer is J.ess.

That is what you have done for Newfound land I and know it has happened, and it is very unfortunate I there are less pE!ople in fishery, less people in fo1nestry. An Hon. Member: Your point is "th.o u gl-1 ·:-·-- ---t h a·t the Fed era 1 GoveJ~nrnE!nt are the ones tAJho gave away every bloody fish that we had out thE!re, and tAd.ll continue to do it. Why don't you stand there and tell the truth, not only to the people of Newfoundland but to the students also. Mr. Power: There is all that has happened with this Administration . Mr. Speaker: Order, please! Mr. PoiAJer : You have thrE:'e 1_31).

May 25, :I'J90 Vol XLI approaches to economic dE!VE!loprnent. One is t1'1C:! House:' Economic RecoVE!ry f<:!am, tJJhich 111ay 01~ may not prove bene:'ficial. The other is, you blame all past mistakes on this side of the House when we were the Government, and we should have rectified aLL our problems, and your thi1nd and most common scenario of all your economic developrnE!nt schemes is to blame Ottawa. This Government has not put one c<Hit yet inl~o l:hE! fishery cr·isis, except for the $14 million ~ou promised to the two big fishing companies.

Two fishing cornpanies which are primarily owned by interests outside Newfoundland. Two large fishing companies tJJhi.ch are responsible in many IAJays for the overfishing, who benefited frorn thE! overfishtng, but lAihE•n H .. comes to the inshoJ"e fishE!I"Y - Mr. SpE•aker, if you just. give ffiE! a second, I will find in l.his bo1 ·\i about inshore fishery support. There is a page here - An Hon. Member: What about Sprung? Mr. Power: Sprung tAJas a mistake:-. An Han. Member: (Inaudtbh') . Mr . Power: Thank God you arc:· nol., and you should not . An Han. Member: (Inaudible) . Mr.

Power: But you are putti119 j l. in National Sea and FPI . You are putting it into large companies when small companies cannot get help. nll 1 arn sayin<.J is .... okay, let us help National Sea and FPI - but what is the Governments approach to the fishery in Newfoundland and Labrador . Il:. is ad hoc, it. is simplistic, il:. "is reactionary. You reacl to a crisis in Twillingate, by giving No . ~~ 1 IB/l .

someone, which I l:.hink, is a of a swee l:h,:'!art deal, I'm g1ad did it because thE! plant Twillingate should stay open. you should also make the rules for everyone else. b-.i.t: you in But s arnf.:~ The Minister was here yesterday, and he was saying; I am a very popular Minister in Twillingate, and a Tory won't be seen down there for a hundred yf.:~ars. Well, maybe that is tn1e, but ·.i.f thE• Minist:.er· is not careFul, thor~:1 is going to be ceJ~tain pal"ts of Newfoundland whore there is not going to bf.:~ a Liberal seen fo1~ a hundred years as well. Mr. Speaker: Thf.:~ han.

MinistE!r of Fisheries on a point of order . Mr. Carter: The han. should not bE1 aJ.J.owed to MembE! r m:i.sJ.ead the House. I am not saying he has deliberately been misleading, but first: of all, he talk101d about HH'' ProvincE• putting $14 rn:illion into the hands of National S1::1a and FPI. That is not correct. He knows, as l:he House knows, that has gone into the hands of the workers. Not one cent of that money wiLL end up in the coffers of the two large companies. In fact, in the casr::1 of FPI, it is going to cost:. t:hern about: $3 miJ.lion. That is money that is going into the hands of' t:he WOI~kei"S.

Now with respect to a statement which he attributes to me yester·day in the House, he did not give it:. in the right: context. I said to thf.:~ ME1rnber fol" St. Mary's - The Capes ·- An Han. Member : (Inaudible) . Mr. Carter: thE! I"E•COI"d correct. I Mr. Speaker, I think should show what is have a right:. Lo a L35 May 25, 1990 Vol. XLI point of orciE!I". When I saoi.cl l:.hat: I might: be popular - I doicl Sdy, M1~. Speake!~, that thE!

Merni:H:'l"' s of l:he Opposit-ion IAJould not: be VE•I"Y popular in Twillingate, because obviously they oppoSE!d the opening of the fish plant, but I said I would probably be popular in Branch, lAJhere I an·angf.:~d to have a fish planl: reopened up therr:'. That is the context in which I said it. An Hon. Mf.:~mber: ( Inaudtb"lt:') . Mr. Speake!" : Oi"d(:'r, pl,::Jas,:·! There is no point of order. ThE:~ hon. the ME•mbE•r' Fol" Fel"l"ylancl . Mr. Power: Mr. SpeakE1r, t.hE!I"e ts no point of order, and I continue.

That was thE! ana1oqy he used, t. hat he is popular· in IJ J"i.'Hl c !·1 becausE• he opE•nE•d a p1anl, and hE• is popular in Tl.•.r.i.11ingal:e bE•causc• he opened a plant. He and his party, are VE1ry unpopular, Vlc'I"Y unpopular, in Fer'l"ylctnd, FE!I"ITiuse, and a couple of plants in St. Mar·y' s Bay that: d·icl not ~1e L any help from this Government, hdve not got any heJ.p and have been refused on many occasions. All I arn saying is, yester·day, his COrriiTIE!nls about l:.he f"jshE•i"y, 1 c:lSk what "i.s in l:.his docurnE•nl:. tu llldiu? the fish1::1ry bEd:LE'i~?

I do not see anyth".i.ng in this ~n bii.J ion, IAJhr:!l"e the1"e is suppoi"t for· the inshoJ"E' fishery. I do not see any support For individual plants. I do not see any loan guarant.E1e progr·arn to help companies t:.hrough diff"icuJ.t. tirnes that rnay not be of t:h1:'il" otAm doing. Therf.:' ar~~ things t:hat. happen in the f"i.sh business, as within any export business; curJ"t::•ncy chan,Jt:•s, lrli:'ll"kE! l:.s, f.:'Xports, a11 ldnds of" t.hi.nqs can change that does not necessarily No. 41 R 3 ~)

mean the management of the company is bad. And a11 I am saying is, in that document there is not a tremendous support for the inshore fishery in Newfoundland. What ad hoc policy the Minister of Fisheries is implementing is done on a very ad hoc, reactionary basis. He waits for som<:~thing to happen, and they he tries to do something about it. The only other -· An lion. MernbeJ": (Inaudib1e). Mr. Power: Well you could not help Fermuse because they were very pooJ"ly managed and tht:~y lost money.

But when new operators go to Fermuse - such as a former Liberal Member of this House, who is up in Fel"rnuse today trying to get a p]ant going - is that Member, that ex-Member, that member of the business community now, member of the fishing community ·- if that person comes here and says we need some hE!lp, we need some assistance to make Fel"muse work, we need a loan guarantee, we nE!E!d some lE!ase payments, is he going to be treated exactly the same because he happens to be in Fermeuse as TiAd.1lingal:e IAJas tJ"t'!ated? Ancl that. is what I seE•. I do noL SE!e that happening.

I see the Minister very arbit.rarily dE•d.ding IAJh:ich p1aces ar•e goinq to be helped and which places are not. And I arn also very alarmed and very concerned at thE.~ dOIAJnsizing, the undersizing, and there are too many people in the fishery business. You are putting l:he horse behind the cart in this case. Because what you are saying is !Ale should diversify, we should have rnore jobs, but you have to get out of thr:' fish<:'ry .

Th<:~ rea1ity :is lo keep U1e1n in l:he fishery, kE!E:'P the FishE!ry at least L.36 May 25, 1.990 Vo1 XU at a subsistence leve1 for many :individuals and, then, ,,~,JI·lc:!n you have the economy diversified, the1~e are lots of places fo1~ them to go. Right now there is nowhere to go. So you are talking abouL diversification, you are talking about getting out of the fisheJ"Y, and it does not really work. An Han. Member: Who owns the ~ermeuse plant? Who (inaudible). Mr. PoJAJE!I": The Canaclicln ~3all:.r:i .sh Coq>OJ"a l~.ion. An Hon. Member : The Canadi<:ln sa ft:-riSil-co"r -p"o'r:at. i 0 n ' Mr.

Power: Listen, are you tel1ing rnE! that poor old Ml". Trainor down in FeJ"rneuse, IAJho has worked in FermeusE• for thirty years and has fifteen years Lo IAJOI"k, I"E!al1y caJ"E~s and r'E!<::d ly is going to forgive tho PJ"ovinc l.a 1 Government for no l corning to thE! assistance of he and his farni.1y, his young children who rnay have to work there? These are the realities. If the Federal Government says we are not clo ·in(j anything for Ferrneuse, there is still is provincial J"esponsibil'i Ly on the President of lreasury B o a I" d • l: h e P r E! rn i H I" d n cl Llw Ministers concerned.

You have a provincial responsibility. And solnE!IAJherE· along tho IAJay, in the 1 as t f o LJI" l:. e en mo n l:. h s , t t. has not sunk :in IAJit.h Men1bc:~I"S opposil:.E:•, especially l:.he MinisLers, Lhat Newfound1anders sti11 require the Newfoundland GoverniTIE!nL t·:o pi"O\.t:•cl: thern :in many instanCE:!S. When Governments oul:.side wil1 nol:. do it, you aJ"E• going to havr:~ lo qo Lhc::' extra rni1e. And you arE• nol: wi 11 i. n g to cl o it ; you have said :in rnany IAJays you are not 1Aii.1Jing l:o do i l~ .. Mr· . Speaker, in lhe las L coup1e of No. '+1 1n6

minutes I haVE! I just want l:o say aqain that the docurnr::~nt that:. t.uas purported to be the election mc:lnifesto of the LibE!Inal