Newfoundland and Labrador Hansard — Statements by Ministers — 10 April 2000 (44th General Assembly, 2nd Session, Vol. XLIV No. 14)
2000-04-10
Newfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)
April 10, 2000 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY
PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLIV No. 14
The House met at 1:30 p.m.
MR. SPEAKER (Snow): Order, please!
Statements by Members
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Ferryland.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Today I rise to congratulate the Southern Shore Breakers who last night
clenched the Herder Memorial Trophy.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SULLIVAN: That is emblematic of senior hockey supremacy in
Newfoundland and Labrador. I do offer my condolences to the Member for Cape St.
Francis, but we did have a person from his district who was coach of that team.
I think that was Don Roche, and I would like to congratulate him and the members
of the coaching and the management staff.
AN HON. MEMBER: What about (inaudible)?
MR. SULLIVAN: They are history. They ran out of money, I say to my
colleague.
I think it is noteworthy to mention too, Mr. Speaker, that it was only last
Monday I rose to announce that the female team had won the championship. Now the
senior team has, their second consecutive one, and four in the last six years. I
offer congratulations to all members of that team, coach and management staff.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I wanted to inform the people of the House today of a new technology
partnership being merged between Labradorians and the people of Trinidad and
Tobago.
Labradorians are bringing technology experience to international markets.
Through a Torbay-based company, Future Works Inc., we are building partnerships
overseas. A lady from my district, Ms Sheila Downer, the IT Development Officer
for Labrador, is traveling to Trinidad and Tobago this week to assist the
International Telecommunications Union of the United Nations in starting a
system of four tele-centres.
For the past ten years, Ms Downer has used her skills in technology to manage
a progressive tele-centre program in Labrador. The information highway has
country roads and no longer are larger centres leading this industry. Through
the partnerships of corporations and the corporate sector, Memorial University
tele-medicine and others, Labrador is on the cutting edge of technology in North
America, using its skills to enhance medicine, education and business.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MS JONES: Can I have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave!
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MS JONES: Ms Downer brings a wealth of knowledge and experience to the
Trinidad government. We wish her luck and look forward to the benefits this
inaugural visit will bring to our Province.
I would like to add that she is a native of Gander Bay. She now resides in L'Anse
au Loup, and was educated by the Government House Leader in the days when he was
a teacher -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MS JONES: - in the classrooms of Gander Bay. She presently holds office
on the Board of Directors for Operation ONLINE.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista South.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I would just like to stand today to recognize and bring greetings and best
wishes to a constituent of mine living in Jamestown, formerly from Winter Brook,
who celebrated her one hundredth birthday this weekend.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. FITZGERALD: There was a big gathering of family and friends who came
together. In fact, the hall in Winter Brook could hardly hold the number of
people there who came out to join in this celebration. While I was speaking and
delivering the certificates that were awarded to this lady, one gentleman sang
out: You can tell the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation that if we
had our road paved you would see twice as many people here.
Mr. Speaker, it is certainly a very happy occasion. It was nice to see family
and friends being able to gather there. In bringing greetings and best wishes,
Mr. Speaker, maybe I can ask if you would send greetings and best wishes
associated with this Assembly here. While we get those greetings coming from the
member and from the Premier, which is all needed, I think the event should be
recognized. Maybe you yourself, Sir, could send greetings and best wishes from
this Assembly recognizing this milestone.
Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I would like to rise today to pay tribute to two residents of Labrador City,
Norm and Pauline Peckham - nee Myers - who celebrated their fifty-third wedding
anniversary on Friday past. Norm and Pauline were married at St. Michael's
Church on Bell Island on April 7, 1947. Both are war veterans of World War II.
Norm served with the Royal Airforce in Asia and Pauline with the WAC in Halifax.
After living briefly in Glace Bay, Nova Scotia, Trespassey and Portugal Cove,
Norm traveled to a place called Carrol Lake, today's Labrador City. In October
1960 in what was then very much a frontier town, Pauline headed north with their
nine children, quite an undertaking at that time, and a tenth child was later
born in Labrador City on March 2, 1962. As their children grew, Norm and Pauline
became involved in all aspects of the young and growing community. In a
nutshell, there were very few activities that they did not leave their mark on.
Norm was a founding member of the local Knights of Columbus and is presently
deputy mayor of Labrador City, a position he has held for the past fourteen
years. He has been recognized with a builder's award from the community and a
community lifestyle award from the federal government. Norm retired from the
Iron Ore Company in 1987 and they are both very proud members and active members
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. COLLINS: By leave, Mr. Speaker.
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave!
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MR. COLLINS: They are both very proud members of the Royal Canadian
Legion, Branch 47, in Labrador City. Mr. Speaker, Norm and Pauline and their
children have spent the last forty years in Labrador West and are indeed true
pioneers of the north. It is their spirit, both community minded and religious,
which makes our community and our Province such a great place to live.
I am certain all members of this hon. House join me in congratulating Norm
and Pauline on their fifty-third wedding anniversary and in wishing them the
very best in the future.
Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.
MR. MANNING: Mr. Speaker, during the weekend of March 30 - April 1, St.
Catherine's Academy in partnership with the Avalon West School District hosted
the 2000 Avalon West Drama Festival. The event was a huge success with over 300
students representing nineteen schools participating in the event. Approximately
1,500 people showed up to view the plays.
Congratulations go out to Mr. Pat Collins of the Avalon West School District,
and also to Ms. Bernie Stapelton and Mr. Peter Rompkey, the adjudicators for the
event, who indicated that deciding the final winners was a very difficult
decision.
Congratulations to all of the winners, especially to Patrick Callahan from
St. Anne's Academy in Dunville who was awarded best actor in the intermediate
division for "The Other Side of the Wall", and to St. Edward's in
Placentia for best set for "Snow White and Friends", also in the
intermediate division; to Amanda Walsh for best actress in the high school
division from Laval High School for "Fortress"; to St. Catherine's
Academy for best costumes in "For Crying Out Loud" and to Laval High
School, again, for best play in the production "Fortress".
This is the third year in a row for Laval to win this award. They will go on
to compete in the Provincial Drama Festival in St. John's in May. Several
merit awards were also presented to: Mark Hanlon of St. Catherine's Academy;
of St. Edward's Elementary, Placentia; and to Robyn Smith of St. Anne's
Academy, Dunville, for "Exceptional Performance".
I attented both the opening and closing ceremonies and took in a couple of
the plays; and, while all participants were school age, the show of
professionalism was second to none.
Once again, I would like to congratulate principal Gary Corbett of St.
Catherine's Academy, and the community, for a job well done.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The Chair would like to welcome to the gallery today, on
behalf of all members, Mayor Rumbolt of Bird Cove on the Northern Peninsula.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
Statements by Ministers
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy.
MR. DICKS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
On March 10, 2000, government received the Canada-Newfoundland Offshore
Petroleum Board's decision regarding an application by the Hibernia Management
& Development Corporation to increase the annual oil production rate from
49.2 million barrels per year to 65.6 million barrels per year.
The C-NOPB's decision was to approve the request. I wish to advise that I
have written to the C-NOPB on behalf of government to advise them that the
Newfoundland government does not approve the increase at this time.
Under the Accord Acts, the C-NOPB's decision is subject to the approval of
the federal and provincial ministers. If the decision is not communicated to the
board within a thirty-day period of receipt of the request, approval is deemed
to have been given to the request.
The Acts require me to advise the C-NOPB, as I have stated, within thirty
days of the decision. If those thirty days had slipped by and the C-NOPB were
not advised, approval would have been deemed to have been given.
If the production increase had been approved, more oil would have been taken
from the field at a lower royalty rate. Over the life of the project, this would
have negatively impacted royalties that were due to the Province.
This was clearly unacceptable. The Province has repeatedly said it should not
be disadvantaged by any production increase. To date, government is not
satisfied that the Province would be kept whole in the event of a production
increase. To address this issue, the Province has had very frank but also good
discussions with the owners. Unfortunately, we did not come to an agreement
prior to the expiration of the thirty-day period. To protect the Province's
position and the best interests of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, it
was necessary to advise the C-NOPB that the production increase request was
refused.
Mr. Speaker, it is important to point out that the Province was not looking
to reopen the royalty agreement. We recognize that an agreement was entered into
with the Hibernia owners. We also recognize that substantial benefits accrued to
Newfoundland and Labrador in terms of jobs that were created during construction
of the Gravity Based System at Bull Arm. We also recognize that a foundation was
laid upon which the Provinces was able to build and launch an oil industry.
Having said that, however, we must also recognize that we cannot be expected to
lose money based on our current agreement or to subsidize a higher annual rate
of production.
Mr. Speaker, it is not our intention to publicly speculate on what the
Province would require to bring about a resolution to this issue. It is
important for the Province to keep all its options open. A legitimate question
is, however: where do we go from here? We will continue to discuss the issue
with the Hibernia owners, and we are hopeful that a solution can be found that
is acceptable to all parties. If and when that occurs, the refusal that was just
given may be rescinded.
Mr. Speaker, this is an issue of some importance to the Province. I believe
it is in the best interest of all concerned to deal with this issue in a
businesslike and timely manner. That is our intent. This government will
continue to work with the Hibernia owners to achieve an agreement that will
allow for an annual production rate increase that is fair to both the Hibernia
owners and the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East.
MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I say to the Minister of Mines and Energy that at this time this is the right
decision, and the government has acted appropriately in view of the time
restraints that it is given under the act. To protect the Province's position
and the best interest of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, it was
necessary to advise C-NOPB that the production increase request was refused. As
I have indicated to the minister, this is the right decision and certainly in
accordance with the good principles that are found in the Atlantic Accord.
There are two principles, I say to the minister - and it seems perhaps we
must always remind the minister - that exist; it is the laws of this Province. I
refer specifically to
section 2.(
c) which states that as a purpose of the Accord
is to recognize the right of Newfoundland and Labrador to be the principle
beneficiary of the oil and gas resources off its shores; and, pursuant to
subsection (d), to recognize the equality of both governments in the management
of the resource and - and I emphasize and - to ensure that the pace and manner
of development optimize the social and economic benefits to Canada as a whole
but to Newfoundland and Labrador in particular.
So when we look at the wording of the Atlantic Accord - which again, to
remind the minister, is the governing law of this Province - the decision that
the minister has made today, in view of the time constraint, is both correct and
appropriate.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
We welcome the minster's announcement today, as is clear from the C-NOPB's
approval of the increase that we need not look to them to protect fully the
rights of this Province in the offshore oil industry. The minster's decision
to refuse to grant this increase provides time for a process to take place that
involves the public and not just the government meeting with HMDC in the back
rooms. I call on the minister today to do what needs to be done, Mr. Speaker,
engage in a public debate on this whole royalty regime, how it works, how it
impacts on this Province, and allow for public input as part of a public process
which is expected today not only by the people of this Province but by a recent
editorial in The Telegram which said that we need a full explanation of
the royalty regimes and returns to the Province of more offshore development.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. HARRIS: It is only when this takes place, Mr. Speaker, will we have a
full chance of getting our just deserts.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Industry, Trade and Technology.
MS KELLY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Earlier today, the Export Development Corporation, EDC, announced that it was
opening a new office in our Province.
EDC is a Crown corporation that operates as a commercial financial
institution. It provides trade finance services in support of Canadian exporters
and investors in up to 200 countries.
EDC helps Canadian companies compete internationally by providing trade
finance and risk management services such as export credit insurance, loans to
foreign buyers of Canadian goods and services, and guarantees.
Government initiated contact with the Export Development Corporation to
encourage them to establish an office here. Both myself and the Premier Tobin
met with senior officials and convinced them of the need, and the benefits, to
setting up this office in Newfoundland and Labrador.
The EDC has had representation in the Atlantic provinces for a number of
years, so it is an encouraging sign of confidence in our economy to see that
they are establishing a presence here in our Province.
We have been experiencing strong growth in a number of sectors. In addition,
we led all of Canada in gross domestic product growth for the past two years.
Our real GDP growth can partly be attributed to strong export growth. Last
year, our Province's exports increased by 13.1 per cent to a record of $5.7
billion.
According to the Export Development Corporation, exports from Newfoundland
and Labrador are expected to increase by 8 per cent to 10 per cent this year,
followed by a further 4 per cent to 6 per cent increase in 2001.
EDC will be working with our exporters to help them meet the challenges of
competing in foreign markets. This new office will be another valuable resource
to assist our companies with their export plans, and we intend to work very
closely with the Export Development Corporation.
Mr. Speaker, in addition to the office opening, EDC chief economist Stephen
Poloz will be delivering a presentation tomorrow on global economic conditions
and trends to help local exporters identify foreign market opportunities and
risks. I am pleased to see that the EDC is already exploring ways that it can
help our businesses.
I invite hon. members to join me in welcoming this office to our Province. I
am sure that it will have many positive benefits for the exporting companies
throughout our Province.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's South.
MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Another good news announcement today by the Minister of Industry, Trade and
Technology. It is easy to see the leadership race is on. Day after day we get
announcements by the minister, and they are good news announcements, I say. They
are good news announcements so I can't say much.
However, I will say this. Because of the gross domestic product increase
there is a tremendous amount of confusion on that side of the House. We see the
Minister of Mines and Energy today say that there is nothing wrong with the deal
that was struck. We hear the Premier saying that there is something wrong and he
likens it to the Joey Smallwood deal on the Upper Churchill. Now the Minister of
Industry, Trade and Technology is boasting about the great gross domestic
product. Every time we have heard an economic forecast about this Province over
the past two or three years they say that the growth in the gross domestic
product in this Province is due to -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. T. OSBORNE: - the oil related industries in this Province.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It is indeed a welcome announcement that after fifty years of Confederation
the Export Development Corporation is going to set up an office in Newfoundland.
The development of exports is a complex matter, and the officials involved in
supporting that exercise will in fact bring some significant assistance to local
exporters trying to develop markets. It is, however, something that we wonder
why previous ministers or previous governments -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. HARRIS: - were not able to do. Yet this minister is now delivering
this result.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Forest Resources and Agrifoods.
MR. K. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
This past Friday I had the pleasure to participate in the official launch of
the Newfoundland and Labrador Legacy Nature Trust. The Legacy Nature Trust is a
non-profit agency with a mandate to raise funds nationally and internationally
to finance conservation projects in Newfoundland and Labrador.
This government has contributed $200,000 per year over the next five years in
seed funding toward this worthwhile initiative.
The Legacy Nature Trust will work in the interest of conservation, taking a
Province-wide approach to identify conservation priorities and projects.
Included will be initiatives encompassing marine conservation, wilderness
protection and education. The Trust will then develop a marketing plan and
undertake fundraising campaigns with the goal of increasing overall funding for
conservation initiatives in the Province.
There are several conservation groups and environmental organizations
throughout the Province with a number of meaningful goals and objectives aimed
at protecting and preserving our environment. The Legacy Nature Trust will not
compete for funding with other conservation groups in the Province. Rather it
will work with other groups to identify conservation priorities and then seek to
match those needs with sources of funding. The Trust will focus on funding
sources outside of this Province, at both the national and international levels.
The Newfoundland and Labrador Legacy Nature Trust has been modeled, in part,
after the Island Nature Trust in Prince Edward Island and the Nature Trust of
British Columbia.
Mr. Speaker, there are many groups and organization across the country and
throughout the world that provide funding for conversation initiatives. The
Newfoundland and Labrador Legacy Nature Trust board members will be able to
identify these sources and access the funding they have to offer.
Increasing funding for conservation and environmental organizations is
important from a cultural, social and even an economic perspective. Perhaps more
importantly, however, this Trust will enable us to achieve the goal of
conserving our legacy for our children.
Government is proud to be involved with such a worthwhile endeavour which
promotes the conservation of our natural resources. I am confident the Legacy
Nature Trust will bring leadership and a Province-wide vision to conservation
issues throughout Newfoundland and Labrador.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Windsor-Springdale.
MR. HUNTER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I thank the minister for a copy of his statement. I recognize the importance
of protecting and conserving our legacy for our children and for the future. It
is good to see that this Legacy Nature Trust will not be competing for funding
with other conservation groups in the Province, and will work with other groups
to identify conservation priorities for the Province. It is a good initiative.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
We have no hesitation in supporting the promotion of the Legacy Nature Trust
and are impressed with the board of directors who will undertake this work.
However, it is going to be enhanced if government will fulfill its promise to
announce its own comprehensive plan to identify significant ecological areas and
its own plan for protected areas in this Province. That has been waited for for
a number of years. Without that -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. HARRIS: - we will not know what government intends to see protection
for.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Human Resources and Employment.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS BETTNEY: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased today to recognize a very important
celebration taking place in Newfoundland and Labrador this week. From April 9 to
April 16, National Volunteer Week is being observed in our Province and across
the country. It is an opportunity to honour the many people who, by volunteering
in social, recreational and other community nonprofit groups, make our lives
happier and more secure.
National Volunteer Week is sponsored nationally by the Canadian Association
of Volunteer Bureaux and Centres, and its 200 member organizations in
partnership with the Voluntary Action Program. Provincially, the Community
Services Council Volunteer Centre will be sponsoring a variety of events and
activities to pay tribute to a very important group of people in our society,
our volunteers.
Voluntarism is an important way in which we enrich our society and is a key
ingredient to our provincial and national character. The Government of
Newfoundland and Labrador recognizes the important role volunteers play in
developing and maintaining healthy and prosperous communities. Since the launch
of our Strategic Social Plan in 1998 we have encouraged and supported the
importance of community partnerships in economic and social development.
Volunteers are one of our most important partners. Our volunteers give endless
time to social interests and causes. In addition, though their work is beyond
monetary value, voluntarism does contribute significantly to our local economy.
The contributions of volunteers in Newfoundland and Labrador are diverse.
There are random acts of kindness to friends, neighbours or strangers; there are
donations made to places of worship, charities and community organizations;
there are skills used to support national organizations; there are the hours
spent helping voluntary organizations; and there are the talents used to support
national and global causes.
Newfoundlanders and Labradorians also participate in their local community
and civic activities in many different ways. Some of this involvement is carried
out through the numerous voluntary groups active in our rural communities, towns
and cities. An equally important
part is self-generated, undertaken by
Newfoundlanders on their own, outside the structure of voluntary groups,
charitable tax receipts or public recognition.
National Volunteer Week is a time to say a heartfelt thank you to the 110,000
volunteers in Newfoundland and Labrador.
The Community Services Council has organized a number of opportunities to
extend our appreciation to our volunteers. Over the next week, events will take
place such as a Youth Volunteer Recognition ceremony, community receptions,
dinners, teas, pizza parties, morning coffees, and proclamations in
municipalities and agencies throughout our Province.
The Government of Newfoundland and Labrador recognizes the important role our
volunteers play in our social and economic growth. Our volunteers are a resource
that make our Province a better place to live. We sincerely thank the volunteers
of Newfoundland and Labrador and applaud their invaluable contributions to all
of our lives.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's West.
MS S. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I thank the minister for
providing me with a copy of her statement.
I also would like to take this opportunity to thank the volunteers in our
Province, not only at this special time, but throughout the year.
As the minister said, volunteers have a vital impact on all aspects of our
society: health, education, social services, the youth of our Province, culture,
arts and recreation, and the environment. It is interesting to note that
National Volunteer Week was first proclaimed in 1943, and it was by Women's
Voluntary Services who initiated the week to thank the many women who had been
involved on the home front during the war. In the 1960s, National Volunteer Week
was expanded to include all the volunteers in our society.
So once again, I would like to take this opportunity to thank all the
volunteers and to encourage more people to be involved as a volunteer, because
it certainly enriches both the people who you help and yourself.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I thank the minister for an
advance copy of her statement.
We too would like to pay tribute to the many volunteers who operate and
perform services within our communities and within the Province. Indeed, I think
it is fair to say that volunteers are the backbone of any community, providing
things that otherwise would not be there: work with the children, with sporting
events, fundraising for different causes, and to the more serious things that we
need in terms of ambulance drivers and firefighters, all of the services that we
need that otherwise could not be provided without the tireless effort of
volunteers, giving their time unselfishly to make sure that their communities
are better places to live. Which in the long term means that the Province as a
whole is a much better place to live as well. They deserve to be thanked each
day of the week, each week of the year.
Thank you very much.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Minister of Education.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to inform my hon. colleagues of two
positive events aimed at improving literacy in our Province. This morning, at
KIXX/Q-93, I participated, along with Dr. Bill Fagan, chair of the Literacy
Development Council of Newfoundland and Labrador, in a draw of four prizes of
$500 each awarded to schools that participated in Read-In 2000. The prize money
was provided by the Literacy Development Council and the Department of
Education.
The winning schools are Avoca Collegiate in Badger, Cowan Heights Elementary
and St. Theresa's in St. John's, and William Mercer Academy in Dover.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS FOOTE: Schools will use their $500 prize money to buy books for their
libraries.
Read-In 2000 was a project of the Literacy Development Council, which
encouraged, in an active way, the importance of reading in everyone's life.
Between March 1 and March 17, teachers and principals were encouraged to
invite guest readers to visit the classrooms and read to students.
During Education Week and during Read-In, I enjoyed visiting students at
Paradise Elementary in Paradise and St. Thomas of Villanova in Conception Bay
South.
I know my colleagues join me in congratulating the students and teachers at
the winning schools, and all the schools that participated in Read-In 2000.
There is another important event to promote today. This is Newfoundland and
Labrador Library Week.
The purpose is to celebrate libraries and the importance of reading and
access to information in many forms - from books, music, videos, magazines and
drama to the Internet. Information in these and many other forms can be found in
our Province's ninety-six public libraries.
This government recognized the importance of resourcing our libraries several
weeks ago when we announced an additional $1 million to the funding to the
Province's libraries for the purchase of new books. This had the effect of
tripling the board's buying power this year.
The theme of Library Week 2000 is: Read your way around the world.
Mr. Speaker, I encourage everyone to take
part in Library Week and to really
consider taking the time to read to a child.
Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Harbour Main-Whitbourne.
MR. HEDDERSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I thank the minster for an advance copy of the statement. Good news travels
fast I suppose. It is certainly traveling around today. I would have to
congratulate Dr. Fagan and the Literacy Development Council for promoting
literacy in this Province. Congratulations to the schools that have won this.
Read-In 2000 - anything that would encourage the young people of this Province
to read - is indeed a very positive thing, but I say to the minister that you
cannot expect the Literacy Development Council to carry literacy on their backs.
We have to make sure that the curriculum within the schools is in place to make
sure that we do not - after they leave school - have to be trying to teach
literacy. Again I ask the minister to go back before entry into the school and
make sure every effort is made to encourage literacy for the younger children.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. HEDDERSON: By leave?
MR. SPEAKER: Does that hon. member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave!
MR. HEDDERSON: No leave?
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MR. HEDDERSON: The second part of it deals with Library Week 2000. The
aspect of the libraries, ninety-six of them throughout the Province, is a very
positive thing. The theme of Library Week is: Read your way around the world. I
emphasize that the reading aspect is a very important one, and anything that
this government or any of the volunteer groups can do to make sure that literacy
is top priority, certainly the people on this side of the House would encourage.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
We too support this initiative by the minister. We acknowledge too the
importance of reading and understanding is integral to the development of all
the young people in our Province, and it is great to see things happening in the
schools.
The second part, that concerning Newfoundland and Labrador Library Week,
while it is great to see libraries being funded more for access to the Internet,
to buy new books, and others things that are needed, libraries are a central
part of all communities in the Province, both socially and for research. I would
like to point out to the minister that -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. COLLINS: By leave?
MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave!
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MR. COLLINS: I would like to say that it is great to see the funding put
in for these things but it is also important that the local library boards
receive funding that allows the libraries to be open so that the people in the
communities can access the Internet and the books that are being bought for
them.
Thank you.
Oral Questions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My colleagues have been complaining about the length of ministerial
statements today and I have offered them this advice: just imagine how long we
would be here if the Minister of Health and Community Services had one, that is
all I can say.
My questions today are for the Minister of Mines and Energy. Last November I
sent an access to information request to the federal government for records
relating to the work of the four federal- provincial working groups set up to
examine various aspects of the proposed transmission line from Gull Island to
the Island. The federal government responded last Thursday, April 6. According
to the federal government, much of the information they sent was left out, but
according to the federal government they withheld much of the information that I
asked for under
section 14 of the federal act because it was thought to be:
"injurious" to federal-provincial relations. The former minister knew
about the request; the present minister certainly knew about the request. I
would like to ask him this question. Isn't it a fact that you told the federal
government to withhold its information, not because it would be injurious to
federal-provincial relations, but it would be injurious to the political
fortunes of the Liberal Party in Newfoundland and Labrador?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy.
MR. DICKS: As usual, Mr. Speaker, I cannot say whether the hon. member is
even half right. I did not know about his request. Perhaps my colleague, now the
Minister of Health and Community Services, might have known. In answer to his
question, no, Mr. Speaker, we did not.
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. E. BYRNE: Really? Interesting. Last week we had the Premier going
here and there on the issue, and the minister saying this and the minister
saying that. Let me quote for him what the federal government said to me last
week. You can deny it all you want, but when we inquired about the ongoing
delays to get the information we were told, categorically, that the federal
government was ready to release it, they were ready to give us all of the
information related to what we requested, but they were waiting for approvals
from "other parties". Now, this being a federal/provincial party,
there was only one other party and that was you, Minister. What did you want to
hide from the people of the Province, I ask you? Twenty pages of that document
deal with population and household projections. What was on those pages that you
did not want to release to the people of this Province?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy.
MR. DICKS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
For the record, and I will be absolutely clear on this, I have never once,
since I have been minister, or previously, discussed any of this information
with any federal official either in the public service or elected.
I say to the hon. Leader of the Opposition, if what he says is true, tell me
the name of the official and I will check it out; but he can name no person that
can ever claim to have spoke with me on this, period. Tell me who.
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, the federal government - from the information
that we sought and when we spoke to the federal government, told us that they
were ready to release it but they would not because other parties....
I will ask you this question. The second
section of this report sent to us
presented three scenarios of economic growth through "2025". You have
this information. I say to the minister, there is no fearmongering, the minister
has this information, and maybe he has not informed the caucus or the
backbenchers either, which would not surprise me. Why did you want to hide the
information set out with respect to scenarios for economic growth to 2025? If
the scenarios confirm what all of your ministers and your government and the
Premier has been talking about in terms of a rosy future for the Province, why
is it that you did not release that information?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy.
MR. DICKS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The easiest thing in the world is for a member of this House to get up and
say some official, someone in the federal government, said something. I say to
the hon. member: Tell us who. I will even give him the benefit of telling me
confidentially. Tell me who he contacted. Because the first I heard of this was
last week; someone said that the federal government had released a Freedom of
Information request. They said they did not know who it was from, period. Now,
we were never contacted as to what would be in that or not. The federal
government made that decision. I have never once -
MR. E. BYRNE: Do you have this?
MR. DICKS: Do I have it? No. Would you care to pass it over so I can
review it for you?
MR. E. BYRNE: (Inaudible). If you don't have it, you should not be in
the job you are in.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. DICKS: Mr. Speaker, let me just say something. The hon. member asked
me whether I have, in my hands, a copy of what the federal government said to
him. No. Do we have access to the information that was discussed back and forth
between the committees? Obviously we do. The hon. member should be very careful
about what he says in his questions and what he says in across this House, to
make sure he is being accurate.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is very careful in what he
says in this House and what he is asking the minister. In fact, these are the
minister's own working groups. The information contained in this come from a
federal/provincial working group which - the minister and the Premier have
already got this information.
I would like to ask him this question. In a
section headed: "Major
Indications of Overall Performance" -
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. E. BYRNE: If he does not have it, I say to the Government House
Leader, get somebody else in there to do the job that should be done.
In the
section headed "Major Indications of Overall Performance",
the working groups developed three scenarios for GDP growth and reached the
following conclusion, and I quote, "Following five years of growth that
averaged only 1.5 per cent, Newfoundland's economy grew by 4.5 per cent in
1998. All three cases are expecting a strong recovery to continue in 1999."
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member is on a supplementary; I ask him to get to his question.
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
"In fact, there is very little to distinguish among the cases at that
point.". Everything goes blank after that. No information released by this
government.
I would like to ask him this: What was contained in the projections beyond
the year 2000 in these documents that you did not want to release, Minister?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy.
MR. DICKS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The hon. member is being entirely inaccurate here. The provincial government
knows what was in the working groups that we submitted. Whether or not the
federal government agree with that, whether or not there are other papers that
come out of the working group, we have no way of knowing. Now, if he has
information from the federal government, I have not seen it; I would be happy to
look at it. If he asks me what is not contained in something I have not seen,
obviously the answer is: I don't know.
MR. E. BYRNE: When were you updated last?
MR. DICKS: The hon. member keeps asking questions across the House. If he
has a specific part of the information that he has there that he wants to share
with me, well and good, but I cannot comment on something that I do not have, to
say what is not in it.
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, in another
section - It is unbelievable that
the minister has no idea what I am talking about; this ongoing information
developed from federal provincial working committees on the transmission line,
and he is standing now and saying he has no information on it. Unbelievable.
Shameful is what it is.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. TULK: (Inaudible).
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, let me just bring this to the attention of the
House, I understood the hon. gentleman just now to quote from that document that
he has in his hands. I would ask that he table it.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member knows that only ministers are required to table documents in
this House.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. member to get to his question.
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
In another
section of this report it talks about the Structural Attributes of
the Province; again, a federal/provincial working committee. It gives a
pessimistic forecast of the prospects for economic diversification in the
Province. It doesn't see much of a future for development - and this is what
it says in the report, federal/provincial working committee - much of a future
for development of manufacturing and petrochemical industries or prospects for
growth in forestry and fisheries.
I ask the minister: Did the working groups turn down the transmission line
because of their pessimism, that there would not be enough demand in the economy
for the power generated and generally for the pessimism of the economy itself?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy.
MR. DICKS: Mr. Speaker, this sounds more like a working group for the
economic policy of the Opposition rather than a working group for the federal
and provincial governments.
We have a very optimistic view of where this Province is going. Whether or
not what he has in his hands, that he is referring to, that he is not tabling,
that he is asking me to answer questions about that I have not seen - well,
fine. The hon. member, if he wants to ask an intelligent question and expect a
reasonably intelligent answer, should give to the other side a copy of what he
is referring to so I can see what it is.
I can tell the hon. member that no, the working groups have not refused
because the working groups, to start with, have no authority. They are there to
analyze data, to come to some conclusions, to suggest to other people who have
decision-making authority - which is not them - what their analysis and advice
would be. Having said that, what he has in his hands - I have no idea what it
is, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. DICKS: (Inaudible).
MR. E. BYRNE: Oh, yes, I do. That is the problem: you don't, I do. That's
your problem not mine, let me say to the Minister of Mines and Energy.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: If the Minister of Mines and Energy expects me or anyone in
this House to phone him before Question Period and send over documents
(inaudible), you can forget it, Sir. Let me tell you that right now.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. member to get on with his question.
MR. E. BYRNE: Let me ask the minister this question. This again is a
federal/provincial working committee, your own committee, not mine, not put
together by the Opposition; the one that the Premier has heralded as: Wait for
their review.
I will ask him: Does he agree with the commentary in this report? This is
what it says; does he agree with this statement, "Thus, diversification
efforts to accelerate development of the Province are most likely to be
concentrated in promotion of communications, information, and consumer
services?" How does the minister explain - or can he respond to the
astounding assumption and conclusion of the federal/provincial working committee
and the working groups, that there are little or no prospects for the
development of new industries in this Province based upon our resources?
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy.
MR. DICKS: Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is acting in a very foolish way.
He just admitted, when he was posing his question, that he does not send
documents over, nor would he possibly alert the government as to what he may be
asking; but he is prepared to come to the House, claim he has something in his
hand, claim that it was sent to him by the federal government, claims it
contains information, and asks me to verify it or not.
Mr. Speaker, I have no idea what he has in his hand. He is waving something
about. He has a history of saying things in this House that are not accurate. To
answer his question: Do I agree with any working group or any paper he may have
in his hand, that there is no possibility for growth or diversification in this
economy? The answer is no, I do not.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Let me ask him this. The four working groups that the Premier said - when he
was in the House a couple of weeks ago, when I asked him questions on it - they
haven't reached any conclusions. These are some conclusions right here of
those federal/provincial working groups, although most of the information you
blanked out.
Let me ask you this question. I am told their work is done. Will you commit
today to table all of the information of those working groups so everybody in
this Province can see what their recommendations were to you?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy.
MR. DICKS: Mr. Speaker, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition obviously
has better information than I do because I was last advised that the working
group has not completed its task.
I say to the hon. member, if he has papers there, please send them over. Let
me take a look at them. I will verify what, if anything, is the truth in it. I
will also say where it came from as far as we know and I will answer the
questions, but I'm not going to stand here in the House and have the hon.
member say things that could be hypothetical and inaccurate and expect to deal
with them on a reasonable basis. It simply cannot be done.
AN HON. MEMBER: Put it on the table, boy.
MR. DICKS: Show us the report.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Baie Verte.
MR. SHELLEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My questions today are for the Minister of Works, Services and
Transportation. At 5:30 a.m. today I stood at the junction of the Baie Verte
Highway and Highway 410 and Highway 414 to La Scie, better known as the La Scie
Highway, with demonstrators, protestors. I met with a bunch of different people,
such as mothers who are upset about their children going on school buses with
the education reform now and the further distance they have to travel. I talked
to miners who could not go to work at Nugget Pond, one of the most successful
mines in the Province, the only gold producing mine in the Province. It went on
and on.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. SHELLEY: These are frustrated people, Mr. Speaker. I would like to
ask the minister this. From the numbers we have seen in the provincial Budget,
isn't it true when we really to get down to it - and we want this question
clarified first - that after the $70-odd million we talk about, with the extra
costs this year of fuel and the other things that the minister has mentioned,
that really this year the provincial roads budget is really somewhere near $12
million to $13 million for the entire Province? Is that correct, minister?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation.
MR. WOODFORD: Mr. Speaker, our allocation for provincial funding of the
provincial roads program this year was announced in the Budget as some $16
million. As is always the case we usually have to take so much money out of that
for calcium. This year we have an added burden because of the increase in liquid
asphalt, approximately 50 per cent or 60 per cent. We have increases in fuel and
so on. So whatever the remaining balance of that is will be used on the
provincial roads program. Having said that, we have only announced three or four
districts in the Province yet with regards to the provincial roads program.
I met with the people of La Scie and all other communities around that area
on February 15 in Corner Brook. I advised them at the time that there will be no
announcements on the program regarding the roads of the Province until the
Budget is down and the provincial roads program is assessed and made available
to me by my officials and my department. To this date, that has not been done.
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Baie Verte.
MR. SHELLEY: Mr. Speaker, these people this morning, many of who for the
first time ever, ran a demonstration about the program. They felt degraded that
they had to do that. That is how they spoke this morning. They are also very
frustrated that there are so many conflicting views coming from the provincial
and the federal politicians.
Again this morning, the MP for the area said on the open line, as he said two
weeks ago with the Minister of Finance for this country, Paul Martin, he told a
delegation from that particular area of council members, of chamber of commerce
people and so on, that there was federal money available for this year for the
provincial roads program. That, in fact, there was federal money available and
it is just a matter, like the MP said this morning, of the provincial government
asking for it.
Will the minister clarify this: Is there federal money this year for
provincial roads in this Province?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation.
MR. WOODFORD: Mr. Speaker, I have heard some of the comments the hon.
member has been referring to, and as far as I am concerned the federal MPs have
erroneously left the impression with the people of this Province that there is
80-20 money available.
There was a federal infrastructure program announced by the federal
government in the last budget. No monies flow from that until the year
2002-2003. When it does flow there is approximately $150 million per year for
the next four years for the whole country. There is approximately $600 million
under that program for highway transportation systems for the whole country.
I do not have to tell anybody in this House what share we will get. When and
if that is approved and it does start to flow in 2002-2003, there will be only
one-third paid for by the federal government. So as far as I am concerned, that
is wrong, the message is wrong. I stated a week ago in Deer Lake at a Humber
joint council meeting that if the federal government - and to the federal MPs -
want to put their 80 per cent on the table at lunch time, we will have our share
on the table at supper time.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the Member for Baie Verte.
MR. SHELLEY: Mr. Speaker, this is both shameful and embarrassing for
those people who have to stand out there on that road today, the people who do
not want to be there, to be told on one hand by the federal minister for this
country, one-on-one, that the money was there. If what the minister is saying is
true, then we were lied to. The people of that area were lied to.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. member now to get to his question. He is on a supplementary.
MR. SHELLEY: Mr. Speaker, with that in mind and with what the minister
just said, what is the provincial government going to do this year to address
hundreds of millions of dollars that the minister talked about that we need so
desperately this year, with an ongoing problem that is exploding in this
Province? How is he going to address it with $12 million? Is there any other
chance of more budgetary funding towards road transportation this year?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation.
MR. WOODFORD: Mr. Speaker, it is no secret that in this Province today we
need approximately $350 million for Trans-Canada and truck roads. We need
another approximately $150 million for collector roads and other roads that we
are responsible for in the Province. Almost $500 million is needed over the next
five to ten years for the transportation infrastructure system in this Province.
We cannot afford to do that as a province on our own.
The La Scie road that the hon. member is talking out is approximately
fifty-three kilometers long. Approximately $6 million is needed to do the whole
road. Twenty-three kilometers of that particular road is in hard shape, no
question. That
section alone will take approximately $3.2 million to fix if it
was all done this year. It needs to be reconstructed, recapped and paved. We
haven't got the money to do it.
When I am ready to announce the provincial roads program for your district
and other districts around the Province that will be included. They will get
some money. I can't say how much, but I guess no matter how much it is, it is
not going to be enough to finish the job, so I guess everybody won't be
satisfied. It is as simple as that.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My questions are to the Minster of Health and Community Services. Last year
government budgeted $87.9 million in revenues from lotteries and they took in
$99.3 million. That is $11.6 million more than they budgeted. The previous year
they took in $9 million more than they budgeted. This year government is only
budgeting the same amount they took in this past year, which is $99.3 million,
of which in the vicinity of $80 million will come from video lottery terminals.
Government only contributes $150,000 annually to deal with problems that are
stemming from gambling addictions. This is one-seventh of 1 per cent, which
represents only $1,500 for every $1 million they take in on revenue.
I ask the minister: Will the government initiate a program both to deal with
the prevention of gambling addiction, and secondly, to treat those who have
fallen victim to this rapidly growing disease?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Service.
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am pleased that the question has finally been raised in the Legislature,
since it has already been asked and answered in the public domain several times
in the last little while.
The issue is clear. The Government of Newfoundland and Labrador, in concert
actually with the owners of the establishments in which the video lottery
terminals are placed and are used, jointly fund the program for access for
people who may have difficulties with a gambling addiction. While the amount
that he mentions is dedicated to a phone line and a service for access, that is
not the limit of addiction counseling that refers to Newfoundland and Labrador.
Addiction counseling is carried out in every health and community services board
and region in Newfoundland and Labrador. There is no specific budget line for it
in the Budget, but any person who is in need of some counseling and advice,
whether it be gambling addiction, smoking addiction, alcohol addiction, there
are addiction services in the range of millions of dollars a year funded in this
Province, and have been for many years in the past.
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
People cannot get access to it. People have phoned me indicating that they
are being told they would have to be suicidal before they can get help,
minister, and you should know that in your capacity as the Minister of Health.
Government started this industry, they developed the industry, they expanded
the industry, and they draw huge profits from this industry. I want to ask the
minister if he feels this government has any responsibilities to the individuals
and the families who have been victimized as a result of their addiction to a
government sponsored business.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Maybe he is asking the questions on behalf of the CBC radio reporter who
asked exactly the same questions in the same order. Let me give the same answer.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
MR. GRIMES: Let me give the same answer, because it is the same question
that has been asked publicly in Newfoundland and Labrador many times before. It
is not an urgent issue that needs to be discussed in the Legislature because it
has never been asked before. The first question was asked by a CBC radio
reporter some time ago, and answered in the public.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. minister to get on with his answer.
MR. GRIMES: The second question, the exact one - do you think we have a
responsibility to the families of those who might have some problem with
addiction? - the answer is the same one I gave publicly. It is already on the
record, been used both on radio and television, that in fact this government
feels that we have no more of a responsibility for addiction services for those
who have a problem with addiction to gambling than we do for those who have
addiction problems relating to nicotine from smoking or from alcohol. Because we
sell all those things. They are all legal in Newfoundland and Labrador. We
generate tremendous revenues from all of them.
Now maybe he is suggesting, if he wants to get to the crux of the matter -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. minister now to conclude his answer.
MR. GRIMES: - that if he were to come over here and be the Minister of
Health, and if they were to become the government, that they would outlaw
smoking, drinking and gambling, and then we wouldn't have a problem. So let's
hear what the position of the Opposition is, because we provide addiction
services for the whole range of all of the problems that people have today, Mr.
Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The minister is being flippant and trying to divert from the real issue here,
their responsibility. You developed the industry, you drive it, you get the bulk
of profit from it. It is a government driven industry.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. member now to get to his question.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I can jog his memory with my news release over the past while later. I don't
have time in Question Period to do it, and I have raised it on numerous
occasions.
The Nova Scotia gaming foundation just handed over $2 million to the
administration of the provincial department of health to deal with problems in
that province. I want to ask the minister: Will he put in place a program in
this Province that will dedicate 5 per cent of revenues to dealing with this
growing problem in our society? Because it is a government responsibility, I
might add. I don't mean throw 5 per cent in today -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. SULLIVAN: Will he build a program that will increase it over the next
two to three years, up to 5 per cent of the massive amount, the $100 million you
are raking in in huge profits in our Province?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
MR. GRIMES: No, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My question is for the Minister of Mines and Energy, and it concerns the C-NOPB
and the proposed increase in production. When will we get beyond the rhetoric
and get some information and facts? Will the minister agree to provide a public
briefing on the exact nature of the royalties and the royalty amounts that are
expected from the Hibernia situation under various production levels? Will he
provide that public briefing to indicate what the differences would be under the
proposal being offered by Hibernia, together with the implications for
equalization payments in other matters?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy.
MR. DICKS: I think the hon. member has asked two questions. The first of
all is some sort of public briefing on how the royalty scheme works. I say with
respect to the hon. member that that is public information. It has often been
canvassed in this House, particularly between myself and the Leader of the
Opposition in recent days, and if he doesn't understand how that operates I
would be happy to brief him privately.
On the other matter, no, I do not intend to disclose the Province's
position and our position with Hibernia. We are negotiating. It is detrimental
to any prospect for final agreement in this matter that we canvass what both
parties are saying at the table. What we are trying to do at this stage is come
to a common understanding as to what the principles and interests are, trying to
quantify them and there is some difference, and hopefully we will make some
conclusion that is mutually agreeable.
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member
for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Mr. Speaker, we have a process by which the public is being
totally left out and this government is negotiating behind the scenes with
Hibernia. Why will the minister not use his powers, together with the federal
minister, to order the C-NOPB to have a public hearing process in relation to
this so that all of these matters can be discussed publicly and the government
can put its position forward publicly to be evaluated while the process is going
on, not after the fact?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy.
MR. DICKS: Mr. Speaker, that is not appropriate, to go down to C-NOPB and
argue publicly to try to get an agreement. The C-NOPB is there for particular
reasons. Last week this particular member was attacking the C-NOPB, telling us
that you couldn't possibly get a fair hearing before it on this GBS versus
FPSO on White Rose. Now he is saying: Let's go down to this tribunal that he
describes - and I disagree with him - as being unfair and canvass this publicly.
The hon. member is not interested in solutions. He is just interested in having
a public dust-up so he and his colleagues can make some political hay out of it.
Frankly, I am not interested.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Conception Bay South.
MR. FRENCH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My question today is for the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation.
Minister, earlier this year I wrote you a letter under the Freedom of
Information Act concerning the telephone contracts with the Government of
Newfoundland and Labrador and two businesses in this Province, one being Cable
Atlantic and the other one being Newtel Communications. I was very surprised,
Minister, when I received back from you a letter stating that you have denied my
request under
section 11.(
f) of the Freedom of Information Act legislation.
Minister, I have reviewed that legislation and I have also had some legal
people review that as well. They can find nowhere in there where you have denied
the request. So, I have to ask today, what are we afraid of? What are we hiding
here? The people of Newfoundland and Labrador have a right to know what the
telephone services in this Province are costing the Government of Newfoundland
and Labrador.
I ask you again today, Sir, for the details of the contract with Cable
Atlantic and Newtel Communications. I ask you today to release to me, and
through this House to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, the cost of
telephone services in this Province. After all, what are hiding? What are we
trying to cover up?
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation.
MR. WOODFORD: The hon. member wants to know the cost of telephone
services in the Province. I think it was last spring in the House there were
voice telephone service exemptions made to the Public Tender Act. At that time
everybody knew, everybody in the House - I believe even the Opposition voted on
it, as far as I know.
My understanding is that Newtel Communications put in a proposal for
telephone service, as they always did in the Province. It was after that,
exemptions were made. There were other people like Cable Atlantic who had voiced
some concern and they wanted to put in some quotes and so on. They did that. It
just so happened that Newtel had the lower rate for long distance, and for the
local phone services and Centrex services, Cable Atlantic did. The total
savings: approximately $65,000 in savings over the last year offered by Newtel
and approximately $100,000 in services by Cable Atlantic on the two services.
MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the Member for Conception
Bay South.
MR. FRENCH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I say to the minister that in my letter to him he knows full well that there
were more questions than just the total cost of the phone services. The question
you just answered, I can ask you another litany of questions.
First of all, are the other phone companies going to put people into this
building to look after the services that we presently receive? Is that going to
continue?
I ask you again, Minister, for the full information concerning the letter
that I wrote you back in February. I ask you to go back and review this and to
come back and tell me why you have denied me and the people of this Province the
right to the questions that I have asked? Again, what are we hiding? What are we
covering up?
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation.
MR. WOODFORD: We are hiding absolutely nothing. All of the information is
there with regard to what can be released under the Freedom of Information Act.
I was advised by my officials that one of the sections in it - I do not have it
here right now to quote from it - has to do with information that may be
available then to a competitor. It is a contractual situation in this regard.
I stated in my letter the reasons why we could not release that information.
I gave the hon. member the variances with regard to Newtel and Cable Atlantic.
Other than that, there is nothing new from me. We told you why it is not going
to be released and it will not be released.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The time for Oral Questions has elapsed.
Notices of Motion
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis.
MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Today I give notice that on tomorrow I will move the following private member's
resolution:
WHEREAS pursuant to
section 38 of the Memorial University Act as amended in
1993 and the Auditor General Act, the University is required to give the Auditor
General access to all books, accounts and records of the University; and
WHEREAS the University, since 1992, has repeatedly refused to give the
Auditor General access to all books, accounts and records to which the Auditor
General is entitled access by law; and
WHEREAS the Supreme Court of Newfoundland ruled on March 11, 1993, that the
Auditor General Act imposes on the University an obligation to give the Auditor
General access to all of its books, accounts and records, and that the
University has not fulfilled its obligation, and that the only remedy available
to the Auditor General under existing law is to report to the House of Assembly
that the University has denied the Auditor General full access; and
WHEREAS the people of Newfoundland and Labrador who provide enormous amounts
of funding annually to the University from the public treasury expect and demand
accountability for the expenditure by the University of that money; and
WHEREAS it is appropriate that the Auditor General, as the chief auditor in
this Province of publicly funded institutions, and as an independent arm of the
Legislature which votes the funding for Memorial University should have access
to all books, accounts and records of the University; and
WHEREAS imposing on the University the demand that the Auditor General must
have access to all of its books, accounts and records is reasonable and does not
compromise the integrity or customary autonomy of the University;
THEREFORE
BE IT RESOLVED that this hon. House urge the Government of
Newfoundland and Labrador to take whatever action is necessary, including the
legislative action if deemed appropriate, to ensure that the University, without
further delay and promptly whenever requested, effectively give the Auditor
General full access to all books, accounts and records of the University to
which the Auditor General is entitled access by law.
Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance.
MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am wondering if I could have leave to revert to Presenting Reports by
Standing and Special Committees?
MR. SPEAKER: By leave?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
The hon. the Minister of Finance.
MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
Pursuant to
section 26.5 (
a) of the Financial Administration Act, I am
tabling two pre-commitment notices for the Table.
Pursuant to
section 28.4 of the Financial Administration Act, I am tabling
one Order- in-Council for the creation of a new activity of expenditure.
Thank you very much. I appreciate that.
Petitions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Baie Verte.
MR. SHELLEY: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
I rise again today to present yet another petition. This one is directly from
the protest this morning, that was signed at the protest. To the hon. House of
Assembly:
WHEREAS the deplorable and unfit condition of the La Scie Highway, Highway
414, makes traveling to and from school unsafe for our children; and
WHEREAS the road conditions jeopardize the safety of the traveling public and
betray a lack of commitment to rural areas of our Province;
THEREFORE we, the undersigned residents of La Scie and surrounding area in
the District of Baie Verte, do hereby petition the government to upgrade and
pave Highway 414.
Mr. Speaker, what I could not get to in questions this morning, I would like
to say in this petition. These people I spoke to this morning, most of them -
and I spoke to almost everyone who were there. I was there at 5:30 a.m. and I
started to speak to mothers. I spoke to miners who could not get to work this
morning. I talked to business people who said they were losing business in the
area.
Mr. Speaker, we are in a position now, we are at a crossroads now, where that
particular road is as bad or worse than any gravel road that is in this
Province. The reason for asking the question I asked the minister today - and
the minister knows full well because we have talked about it and discussed it
many times. As a matter of fact, before he was minister, I spoke to the former
minister, now the Minister of Finance, about the situation overall in this
Province. In a nutshell, the amount of money being allocated by this government
to enhance the provincial roads program is not adding up. As a matter of fact,
it is a growing crisis. It is something that is brewing in this Province, that
is coming to a head.
Mr. Speaker, simply put, the people are concerned about the La Scie road and
also gravel roads in my district and in other districts in the Province, some
1400 kilometres of still unpaved road in the year 2000, fifty years after
Confederation. It is something that all of us should be ashamed of - previous
governments and the present government - whatever stripe. It is shameful on all
of us.
These people who were on this road this morning feel degraded to even have to
go out there and protest at 6:00 in the morning for something that they so
strongly believe in. I support them fully. I know they have continued to do this
now for the last couple of years with this particular committee, which has done
a superb job of lobbying and making sure the message gets through to the
government. I know the minister's office has been inundated with messages,
phone calls and letters, and everything that I have received also. They are
asking for simple, common decency. Can you image that economic development may
be at stake here because we do not have a basic road infrastructure. They are
not looking for a ring road. They are not looking for double lanes or a barrier
that goes through Grand Falls. They are looking for a simple, straightforward
two-lane highway, a paved highway.
We are talking about La Scie road, that is some twenty to twenty-five years
old. That is incredible. It was only two weekends ago, Mr. Speaker, that I was
heading to the community of Ming's Bight, which is one of the eleven
communities off this particular road. I was trying to get there on time, not
even up to the speed limit, and I hit a crater. It was not a pothole anymore, it
was a crater, and it caused me to lose the front end of my car.
Then I talked to school children, and I think there was someone in the media
today, talking about the experience of being on a bus on a road like that. So
that I could really understand it, I sat on a bus in Pacquet last year to go
over one of those roads, and sat in the back with the students, Mr, Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. SHELLEY: So I fully support him. It is straightforward common
decency. Roads like this in the Province are something that government should be
ashamed of. I hope it is addressed very soon.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista South.
MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I too have a petition. The petition reads:
To the hon. House of Assembly of Newfoundland in Legislative session
convened. The petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland:
WHEREAS approximately four kilometers of the main road through the community
of Lethbridge was upgraded and paved in 1999; and
WHEREAS approximately four kilometers of the main road through Lethbridge
remains in a deplorable condition; and
WHEREAS this
section of the road has not been upgraded since it was paved
approximately thirty years ago; and
WHEREAS this
section of the road is in such terrible condition that vehicles
are being damaged, including school buses serving three schools in the area, and
school children are finding their daily trips over the road very difficult;
WHEREFORE your petitioners urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador
to complete the upgrading and paving of the main road through Lethbridge in this
fiscal year.
As in duty bound your petitioners will ever pray.
Mr. Speaker, here is a petition brought forward by the residents of
Lethbridge asking the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation to provide
funding to complete the main road through the town of Lethbridge. Last year
there was approximately four kilometers completed. This year -
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. FITZGERALD: Musgravetown was done last year, I say to the minister,
absolutely. There was four kilometers done. There is four kilometers that
remains to be done of the main road through Lethbridge.
Mr. Speaker, here is a situation where you drive down through the four
kilometers of road through Lethbridge. For the most part you have two tires on
the pavement and two tires on the shoulder of the road in order to get away from
the bumps and the holes in that particular
section of pavement.
Sometimes I question the wisdom of the Department of Works, Services and
Transportation in the major upgrading that they do through the communities in
this Province. In fact, the minister was astonished to go through places in
Musgravetown and Lethbridge last year where he referred to it as Trans-Canada
work. When you see the amount of work that was being done by taking away the
hills and filling in all the dips and the valleys, I am not so sure. It is great
if we have lots of money. Then we can have a good road and we can have a class A
road right across the Province. The road that presently exists in those
communities has served the people well for the last thirty years. If we had gone
back over those roads and if we dealt with the situation according to the money
that we have had in the budget where we could shape up the road, put in
culverts, recap what was there, and if we got another twenty or twenty-five
years, then I say to the minister, and I say to you, Mr. Speaker, that that
would be the life of the road anyway.
Down through Musgravetown now I notice pavement that was put down last year,
and already the Department of Works, Services and Transportation needs to go
back now and patch the holes, so I am not convinced that all the engineering
work -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. FITZGERALD: - that is being done in order to upgrade those roads is
really necessary or is paying great dividends. So the people in Lethbridge, Mr.
Speaker, are asking the minister -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. FITZGERALD: - to look at their situation this year, complete the work
that has been started, and hopefully their road will be upgraded and paved to a
suitable condition in this fiscal year.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's South.
MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I have a petition today from the residents of the McKay Street
area. The prayer of the petition reads as follows:
We, the residents of McKay Street, St. John's, Newfoundland, wish to
petition the hon. House of Assembly to implement a school bus route for the
primary age children of the area. We realize the policy outlined by the
Department of Education states a child must live one point six kilometers from
the school in order to obtain the rights to a busing system. Please note the
distance from McKay Street to Holy Cross is just barely under one point six
kilometers. We are requesting, due to the age of the children and the nature of
the walking route where children are forced to walk along major thoroughfares
and cross extremely dangerous intersections, that a bus route be provided. The
safety of our children is our primary concern.
I have spoken to the Minister of Education personally on this issue. While I
realize that the board's policy is that it has to be greater than one point
six kilometers in order to obtain a busing route for the area, the residents of
the area have a point. That is, that the child walking along this busy route are
primary age children, kindergarten, grades I, II and III children, and these
children have to walk along a very busy thoroughfare and cross busy
intersections. That raises some health and safety concerns for those children.
Not all parents are able to provide transportation for their children. Not
all parents, because of other children that they are looking after in their
home, are able to walk with their children to the school. Not all parents even
have transportation, and are unable to afford to provide taxi service and so on.
This is a real issue. While we realize that this is the first year that busing
has been provided to that area, we are asking government to take another look.
We are asking government to keep in mind the fact that these children are very
young children, primary age children. That is all we are asking for them. We are
not asking for the high school children from the area. We are asking for the
younger grades, the primary school children in that area, to be provided busing
to allow for a safe passage from home to school and return again.
Based on that, I support the residents of the area in their request for
busing for their children. I know that busing is provided for children just
around the corner. Just houses away, really, from that area, busing is provided
for other children. We are asking the Minister of Education to have another look
at this, to reconsider. We are asking the board to reconsider this decision and
to put transportation in place for those children.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Orders of the Day
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, Motion 2, Concurrence Motion, Social Services
Committee.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I understand it is Order 2. Not Motion 2, Order 2.
MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, yes, Order 2, the Social Services Committee.
MR. SPEAKER: Concurrence Motion, Order 2, Social Services Committee.
Is it the pleasure of the House to concur in the concurrence?
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
Nobody stood to speak, so the Chair figured there was an agreement for
concurrence.
The hon. the Member for Harbour Main-Whitbourne.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HEDDERSON: My apologies, Mr. Speaker, I was halfway to my feet.
Just to get back to the funding with regard to education, the committee went
through the Estimates and looked at how the money has been spent in education.
There were any number of questions that were brought forth regarding the type of
funding that has been given to education this particular budget year. Again,
there were some bright spots but for the most part there were more
disappointments with regard to the amount of funding that was put in.
This year in particular there were great expectations, I say to you,
regarding the amount of money that would be placed in education. The report that
was released just last week was to be a jumping off point whereby a lot of the
things that should have been done in the past decade would have been done, or at
least started, in this particular year, but this year it appears to be more of a
catch-up year than anything else. The money that has been put in has been put in
more to maintain and retrieve programs that were lost over the last number of
years. The important thing to remember is that the reform that was promised back
in 1992 by the original Williams report has really fizzled out tremendously over
the last eight years. When we look at this particular Budget there is certainly
a lot of room for more things to be done, following from the report that we had
just a couple of days ago.
One of the areas that again fell very strongly has to be in curriculum
development. It is an area which has not been given the attention it has needed
over the last number of years. It is most important that it be looked upon as
something that has to be really concentrated on. The restructuring was done and
there were schools closed. We are dealing now with an education system of
probably about 340 schools at the end of this school year. You are talking about
90,000 students. Yet, I say to you, there still appears to be a lot of room for
improvement especially with regard to curriculum development.
At the high school level, there is talk now of the public exams going back
into the system. Again, this is a welcome development from many parties, but the
question comes up as to what type of public exams are going back in, in light of
the fact that many of the courses that these public exams will be testing have
yet to be developed and implemented into the system. The plan, it appears,
coming out of the release of that Williams report, I say to you, of a couple of
days ago, seems to be stretched - with regard to curriculum development - over
five years, and five years is an awfully long time to delay what should be a
crucial area at this particular time. The money that has been spent right now
this year, especially with regard to curriculum development, is not near what it
should be to make sure that the recommendations of that new report of a couple
of days ago is carried out.
Under distance education, it is good to see in the report that there was to
be now more of an emphasis on the distance education, which indeed it should be,
because we have to keep up with the technology. Distance education is nothing
new for Newfoundland and Labrador. It has been a development throughout the
years as every effort has been made to ensure that the children, no matter where
you live in the Province, are given what we would consider a good basic program.
For distance education the technology is there, but I wonder, once again, is the
priority there to make sure that the money that is spent, with regard to
distance education, will ensure equality throughout this particular Province?
Under the student support services, especially the special needs, and looking
at the special needs and how it has been handled over the last number of years,
I have to say it has been handled very poorly. It is not necessarily a matter of
pouring money into it. It is developing programs, implementing them properly,
making sure that the teachers are professionally in-serviced in it before the
full implementation takes place. That has not been done. When you look at the
statistics, if statistics are used, it appears that everything is fine,
everything is great, but you have to go beyond statistics, I say to you, and
realize that when it comes to supporting services, special needs, especially in
the schools, you can't always just depend on numbers. You have to look at
needs. The special ed. programs in the schools are certainly programs that need
to be addressed and need to be addressed in a very positive way.
The education system is a key area. I feel, looking at especially the K to
XII system, that since 1996 there has been something to the tune of $66 million
taken out of that K to XII allotment. It is cut too deeply. The amount of money
that is placed back, something like $3 million this year, is certainly not going
to offset that and it is going to take many years in order to recover it at that
particular rate.
I say to you, Mr. Speaker, it is very important that the education of our
children in Newfoundland and Labrador not only be a top priority but remain a
top priority in budgeting out the financial allocations of this particular
Province.
With regard to the school board operations, again I say to you that the
buildings in our Province, the school buildings our children attend on a daily
basis, these buildings are in dire need of good preventive maintenance.
We have any number of schools throughout this Province where the roof is
leaking. The school boards seem not to be able to maintain these buildings in a
manner whereby the air quality is assured, whereby spelling bees certainly can
be carried out without threat of rain, whereby spelling bees would not be
cancelled in particular classrooms because there is rain coming down. This is
where we have to see some real action, because the children of our Province
cannot be given a good delivery of education unless the buildings they are in
are fit to be in.
I say to you that the maintenance - and I cannot emphasize this enough - the
maintenance of these buildings is most important. When you have these buildings
laying idle in the summertime and there is no maintenance going on, there is
something wrong with this; because the time when these schools are down during
vacations should be the time whereby it is important that the caretakers, the
janitors, are in there doing the work that is required to make sure these
buildings are fit.
To get back to the leaky roofs, in my district alone there are two buildings
right now, Whitbourne High and Ascension Collegiate, which are in dire straits
with regard to a roof; but, again, it has not been done. For some reason or
another the Whitbourne school, the money is supposed to be there but the work is
not being carried out until perhaps we get a sunny day. I was in there the other
night and there is frustration because again they realize with each passing day
there is more and more damage not only to the building itself but to the health
and safety of the children there.
With regard to school boards, they are operating, in many cases, on very
limited budgets with great needs. It is most important, especially with
maintaining the buildings - the air quality I have mentioned. In 1998 there was
money put aside for air quality testings; but, in many of the schools where the
air quality tests were done, they went in beforehand and cleaned the schools,
did the testing, got very good results, which clearly indicated that it was
maintenance that was required to make sure these schools were up to scratch;
but, since that time, there has been very little in the way of follow-up from
1998 in re-testing or otherwise to make sure that the buildings are certainly
fit to be in.
With regard to site selection - and this has come up time and time again -
with regard to where the school should be going, right now I think out in the
Bay d'Espoir area there are still some questions from some of the parents as
to whether or not the site at (inaudible) Bay is going to be a safe site. Again
I say to you, it is very important when we are constructing schools to make sure
that every precaution is taken to ensure the safety of not only the students but
of the staff and anyone associated with schools. It is not a question of where
schools should go. It is a question as to how safe the site is at any particular
time. I say to you, Mr. Speaker, how important it is to make sure every
precaution is taken. In this particular case, there are some questions that
certainly need to be answered, whether it be by an environmental assessment or
from the company operating the dams and so on out there.
The school boards certainly have been under a tremendous amount of pressure
regarding trying to deliver education to the children in this particular
Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, and it is very important that they be
supported by the Department of Education. In this particular case, this year the
support has not gone far enough. When we look at the needs in the particular
education system, it is most important that we see that all areas are looked at,
priorities are given, and that we move forward; but when you get into a
situation whereby there is a scramble this year to return reading specialists to
the school; when there is a scramble this year to put back in public exams; when
there is a scramble to replace classroom teachers who were taken out in years
gone by; when there is a scramble to look at putting forth a strong curriculum;
when we look at this type of a scramble, we have to ask the question as to
whether or not this government is responding to the needs of the education
system at this particular time.
Moving through, again staying with education, and to go back to public exams,
they were supposedly cancelled in 1996 because there was not enough money and
now they are coming back in; but you notice that is not necessarily the public
exams that were taken out in 1996, because there is no way of knowing, at this
particular time, what format they are going to take, what subject areas they are
going to be part of.
Also it was interesting to note, in going through, under education, with
regard to the Budget, that this Province is tied in - especially with regard to
the high school program - closely with the Atlantic Provinces.
On the up side, it is always good to be associated with a larger group. In
this case we would be associated with three other provinces, and supposedly in
areas like math, science, and language arts, we would be sharing wonderful
resources, developing great courses. The only thing I say to you is, when we
look at the Atlantic Provinces, we ask ourselves: Are they holding us back with
regard to curriculum development? Because if we are putting into the high school
courses, does that mean that we have to wait until we get approval from the
other three?
What about our public exams? They are talking about public exams for
Newfoundland and Labrador. Wouldn't you think that this would be an Atlantic
development where the tests would be the same throughout the four Atlantic
Provinces? Again we wonder if indeed, in joining with them, we are holding
ourselves back.
Perhaps it would be better if we looked at, in Newfoundland, getting our own
house in order, taking care of what concerns and needs are in Newfoundland and
Labrador, and then perhaps joining with the Atlantic Provinces and indeed the
country into a more national curriculum. So be it, but it is very important,
that the education system in Newfoundland and Labrador be looked at for what it
is, and that every effort should be made, financially or otherwise, to push it
forward and not keep it back.
The aspect of busing - my colleague brought up just a minute ago that when we
are looking at busing children to the nearest school, or to schools in general,
we take into account simply the physical distance. The physical distance in this
regulation is 1.6 kilometers. It is not 1.59 kilometers or even close, and that
is the only thing that is looked at. Certainly the grade levels in St. John's
are looked at as well, but what I am saying to you is that when it comes to
busing there are situations in this Province - as my colleague has certainly
indicated - where traffic patterns and safety is compromised. Surely heavens,
the Department of Education are not limited in their ability to respond to
unique cases, because it is most, most important that the safety of our children
be certainly looked at.
Also with busing - we are eight or ten years down the road on school reform.
The numbers have dropped and we are constantly reminded by the minister that the
numbers are dropping, and because the numbers are dropping we have to reduce
teachers, so on and so forth. The funny thing about it is that the cost of
busing has not been reduced, despite the fact that we are delivering, bringing
or sending less than probably one-third since the 1990s. So busing is still as
expensive, and perhaps even more so, than it was before. Again, it begs the
question as to what is going on? Does it mean that by closing the number of
schools that we have, that we are sending children larger distances requiring
more busing?
Whereas when this was talked about in 1996 with regard to
referendums, et cetera, part of the reason why many people voted in favour of
reform was the aspect of reducing busing, especially cross-busing; but we find
in this financial report that the busing operations are costing us as much, if
not more, than in the past. Again, busing is an important one. It is one that
needs to be looked at, one that has to be decided as being, once again, a
particular priority.
To again return to curriculum, that is most important, as I pointed out. It
is good to see - I have to say, it is good to see - that a history course has
been put into the curriculum. Now it is at a Grade VIII level which means, I
hope, that every student coming through the system now - and it won't be
developed for another year, I believe, or two - every child now coming through
the system, at lease in Grade VIII, will be given the wonderful opportunity to
learn about the history, the culture, of -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. HEDDERSON: By leave?
MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Yes.
MR. HEDDERSON: Thank you.
I will just clue up, Mr. Speaker. Once again, I will clue up on the
curriculum, that it is most important that the curriculum be looked at.
The other area has to do with reading. Again, I can't tell you enough how
important it is. We heard from the minister today about literacy, and
encouraging literacy and Read-In 2000. The only thing about it is that I would
be very wary of introducing particular reading programs. It is important that we
have the resources there and that the teachers in the school system have the
availability of choosing what is the best way to tackle reading problems, and
the earlier the intervention, certainly the better.
In closing off, then, I would like to say to you, Mr. Speaker, that the
reform has finally started which is good to see, but I am very wary about the
financial support that is in this Budget for the implementation of this
particular report. I would again encourage the government to move quickly in
ensuring that the recommendations that are contained in the Williams-Sparkes
report are actioned and guaranteed, so that we will not be, in a couple of years'
time, standing here wondering what happened with regard to education reform.
Again, I thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER (Smith): The hon. the Minister of Education.
MS FOOTE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I thought I would speak to some of the points raised by the member opposite,
but as he went on and on it became very obvious that he was rambling. I am sure
when he gets a chance to read the transcript of his remarks - it was really
difficult to keep track of where he was going or what direction he was going in.
So I will take advantage of this opportunity to speak to education in this
Province and exactly what it is we have been able to accomplish as a government
and where we are going.
We all recognize that school boards have had a very difficult time. We are in
the middle of restructuring, we have come from a very difficult time of
reorganization. Having said that, clearly the issue has been focused on
buildings, on redevelopments and on new builds. We now have an opportunity, as a
result of the Ministerial Panel on education, to really focus on the classroom
like it has not been focused on before.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MS FOOTE: Now, I can stand here and respond to your questions if you want
or I can speak like your member had the opportunity to speak. So I would really
appreciate it, if you do not mind.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, we have an opportunity now with the Ministerial
Panel to really focus on the classroom. We have looking very closing at what has
been happening in the education system in this Province and we are feeling very
comfortable with this report, because we think it builds a vision for this
Province. It points us in a new direction. It gets us to focus on the delivery
of curriculum. It gets us away from putting teachers in place based on student
enrollment. That is a very serious concern for us as a province, whether we want
to accept it or not.
If you look back ten, fifteen or twenty years ago we had the peak student
enrollment of 162,000 children in our education system. Today we have 97,000. If
we look ten years out we will have about 50,000. That is a very real concern for
us as a government and as a province, and something that both co-chairs of the
Ministerial Panel recognized. It is something that we are going to have to deal
with. How best to deal with that when we know that these students are spread out
around this Province? Of course, because of our geography they are spread far
and wide, which again is of some concern to us because we have to make sure that
we deliver an essential program.
I am really pleased that the co-chairs, Dr. Sparkes and Dr. Williams,
actually identified not a core program but an essential program that needs to be
delivered in our school system. In doing that they have identified courses that
have not been offered to every student in this Province before. In fact, they
have identified, as part of the essential program, music, art and physical
education. We all know that up this point those courses have not been available
in every school in this Province. As a result of the Ministerial Panel and the
fact that the recommendation is to make sure that we offer an essential program
to every student in our Province, they will be able to avail of those courses.
What we have to make sure is that it is done either with a teacher in the
classroom or through distance education. We have to make sure that if we are
offering programs like music, for instance, that we continue to offer existing
music programs that are delivered by music specialists.
I know there has been some concern expressed about that but I have to say,
and as the co-chairs have confirmed, there was never - never - an intention to
move away from offering the present day music curriculum and it being offered by
music specialists. I think it is important to make that note because there has
been some concern expressed. Regrettably, people tend to express views without
first picking up the phone and calling to see what the intent of the
recommendation was on the chance that there may be some misunderstanding. I
think in this case there certainly has been. I am hoping that we will be able to
resolve that, and certainly we have agreed to put in place a committee to meet
with those interested and concerned parties about the delivery of music
curriculum in the schools.
I want to go back to the school boards and the challenge that all of our
trustees have. We have to bear in mind that these are elected trustees of these
school boards, people who have put themselves forward because they really want
to make a difference in the delivery of education in this Province. Yes, they
have had some difficult decisions to make, but I have to say that you bear in
mind these are volunteers, that they exercise their best judgement based on the
information available to them. They have been doing that all across this
Province.
I think we all recognize that we are talking about introducing significant
change when we talk about reforming the education system in this Province, and
change is never easy to accept. In fact, most people are fearful of change, and
I think that is what we have seen come out of this process in the last two to
four years. I think it is safe to say that where we have seen some consolidation
of schools, those who were a little nervous at the beginning - and I think
specifically of a number of schools where there was really some reluctance to
come together for whatever reason - that if you go in to some of those areas now
they will tell you that in fact the final result has been a really positive one,
where we have seen children coming together and learning from each other and
working with each other.
We have also seen children being able to access many more courses than they
could in the past. In fact, we have seen the program offerings, particularly at
our high school level, increase substantially over the last number of years.
Proof positive that it is working again is the fact that we have seen more
students graduate from high school than we have seen in a long time. We have
also seen more of these students going on to post-secondary institutions.
Another one of the recommendations of the Ministerial Panel that I would like
to speak to, of course, is the reinstatement of public exams. When we say more
students have gone on to post-secondary institutions, I think the point we have
to remember here is that there is some concern been expressed at the
post-secondary institutions about whether or not some of our students are
actually prepared to go into those post-secondary institutions. That has raised
a number of concerns, not only from the post-secondary institutions but from
parents as well, and from students themselves who say: I am really not quite
sure that I know what I want to do, and when I get into a particular
post-secondary institution then I find out that maybe I wasn't prepared for
this or that particular program.
I think that is what will be the benefit of reintroducing public
examinations. Yes, they were cancelled several years ago. It was the decision
that was taken at the time for a number of reasons. We are reinstating them
because the Panel found out during their consultation process that it was
certainly the right thing to do, and we tend to do the right thing when it comes
to education in this Province. One of the things that has been brought up is
whether or not the public exams will actually be multiple choice. I have to tell
you that it is the recommendation of the Panel that some of them indeed will be
multiple choice, but that it is certainly not the intention that it would all be
multiple choice.
For instance, if you look at programs like Language Arts it is very difficult
to offer a final exam in Language Arts only focusing on multiple choice. I think
it would depend on the subject area. It will be done in the manner that it is
done everywhere throughout the country when you look at public examinations. Don't
forget that public examinations account for 50 per cent of the final grade. In
fact, the other 50 per cent will be the grading by the teacher himself or
herself. I am really happy that we are reinstating public exams because I think
it is the right thing to do and the right approach to take.
We have not been scrambling. To suggest what is happening here in terms of
implementing the recommendations of the Ministerial Panel is anything in the way
of scrambling is wrong. In fact, it is an acknowledgment by this government that
everything is not perfect in our education system, any more than everything is
perfect in any other system that we have in this Province. Do we recognize that
we can make some improvements? Of course we can make some improvements. That is
exactly why we put in place the Ministerial Panel. If we thought for a minute
that we would have some concerns or any concerns about what the Panel would
find, we wouldn't have done what we did in terms of appointing Dr. Williams
and Dr. Sparkes to look at the delivery of education in the classroom.
We knew we wanted to get the best advice we could possibly get. That is why
we put in place two eminent scholars, two of the best educators in this
Province, to look at our system and tell us now how we could improve our system,
based on the fact that we have come through education reform, based on the fact
that we have looked at declining student enrolments, and based on the fact that
we have gone through the consolidation process. That is not to say that there
isn't some more consolidation that can happen, because clearly there will be.
We will still have areas where we will see fewer and fewer students.
Unfortunately, we are seeing our student population decline to the rate of about
4,000 a year, which is unfortunate and certainly regrettable. That is a fact of
life, as of today, and certainly something that we have to be prepared for. It
was with those circumstances in mind that we wanted Dr. Williams and Dr. Sparkes
to have a very good look at the best way we could deliver education in this
Province, bearing in mind that we are having fewer and fewer students.
I have to say again that when we talk about the money that is going into the
education system, we have not taken money out of the system. On the contrary; we
put money back in the system in spite of a decline in student enrollment, in
spite of fewer buildings. In fact, if you were to look at the money that has
gone into the system in the 1990s, you would see that our enrollment has
decreased by 22.2 per cent. We have seen our expenditures decrease by 10.8 per
cent. We are double in terms of the enrollment decline versus the change in the
expenditures on education but our expenditures per student have, in fact,
increased 18.7 per cent over the past seven years. So the money is going into
the system and we have no inclination at all to take money out of the system for
the sake of taking money out of the system. We want to make sure that we
reinvest. We want to make sure that our students have the best possible
buildings in which to learn. We want to make sure they have state-of-the-art
facilities. In fact, in this budget alone we put in $4 million, over the next
three years, for a total of $12 million, to repair damages to roofs, and to look
at air quality problems in our school system.
When the member opposite talks about the school at Whitbourne, yes, I
recognize there is a serious issue there. Could we have repaired it sooner? No.
In fact, we have had Works, Services out there. We have had people from our
department out there. The buildup of ice on top of that roof - it is a flat roof
- is such that for anyone to go up there while it is covered with snow and ice
would be hazardous for them and for that individual. We have opted to take our
time with it, for the very reason that repairs couldn't be carried out while
there was a buildup of snow and ice on the top of that roof, and we certainly
wouldn't send an inspector up there while that was the case. In fact, when it
is brought to my attention, I look into it and I act on it where I can.
We are going to make sure that $12 million that has been allocated for
maintenance, for roof repairs and air quality, is used in all of our schools
where needs exist, and we are going to make sure that it is done on a very quick
basis so that we don't have children in buildings that are leaking or where
there is poor air quality.
We talk about busing. Again, busing is an issue for all of us in this
Province because of the geography of the Province and the fact that we have had
to consolidate some of our schools. The fact of the matter is that our children
do travel from community to community to attend school, but that is no different
from the rest of the country. I think we have to sit back sometimes and look at
where we are in this Province versus the situation in other provinces. We will
see, when we do that, how fortunate we are in terms of - in fact, if you look at
busing in Nova Scotia, for instance, I am told that they have to pay for their
busing. That is not the case here. If you look at - particularly in rural
Newfoundland. For the first time ever this government put in busing in St. John's
for children in K-VI. That was a new initiative. That did not happen before.
This government decided to do it.
So there are lots of things that we can take credit for as a government. We
made considerable inroads in terms of improving the education system. Are we
perfect? Of course not. Are we trying to be? No, no one is perfect. The good
Lord himself wasn't perfect and, of course, he was criticized as well.
At the end of the day, we have to make our best efforts working with the
resources that we have available to us, and we are doing just that. We know as
well that we have a report out there that is going to cost about $20 million to
implement but it is a report that has been accepted by the Cabinet and by the
government. There are some eighty-six recommendations there. We have looked
closely at all of these recommendations, but one of the ones that I am really
excited about as well that I would like to point to is the centre for distance
learning and innovation. I think this is a concept, it is an initiative that
will really put our students in the forefront in terms of knowing the
technology, being able to access the technology, and being able to compete with
students from anywhere, not only in this country but in North America and the
world, as they become familiar with the technology.
Anyone who would suggest that this is a way to replace teachers, nothing is
further from the truth. That is certainly not the intent and that will not be
the case. In fact, you will probably see more teachers because we are going to
be including, what we call, E teachers, and these are teacher who will be
responsible for delivering the Distance Education. We will also have teachers in
the classroom where the children are, in fact, utilizing the technology to
monitor what is being done in the classrooms; so they will have a teacher there
who they can contact and who will monitor their progress as well.
This centre for distance learning in education is a very innovative approach.
It is one where we have to make sure that our children are well prepared, that
they do not go into this blindly but that they are led and that they know
exactly what to expect, but it will also enable us to offer programming that
they would not otherwise be able to access.
You know, people have said that there is going to be a teacher shortage and
that concerns me. I have said time and again, we are going to do everything we
can to try and ensure that does not happen in this Province; but the truth of
the matter is that we are seeing it happening in some other provinces now and
people are starting to call here to look at the availability of teachers, and
particularly teachers who are retiring, but we are going to make sure that does
not happen here. One of the ways, of course, is to ensure that where we can put
teachers in the classrooms, we certainly will. Where teachers are not available,
we will certainly work with our Distance Education technology. We are going to
work very closely with all of the school boards and with the schools and with
the school councils to make sure that this does not happen down the road.
I talked about the boards and how important they are to this whole evolution
of education in our Province. The other group that we have to touch on, that we
sometimes overlook, are the school councils. Of course, the school councils are
comprised of parents by and large but there are teachers and principals on the
school council as well. Working with the school councils, working with the
school boards, working with teachers, and working with the students and other
stakeholders in education, we have to move now to implement the Ministerial
Panel report; excellent recommendations there. Some, of course, we have already
budgeted for and we are moving ahead with very quickly. Others will have to look
for the money for it in subsequent budgets, but over the next three years I see
us implementing all of these recommendations among which, of course, will be
increased professional development for our teachers; very, very important.
Our teachers need to know that they will have access to increased
professional development. In this budget alone, we put in $900,000 for that. Of
course, one of the recommendations of the Panel was that there would be an
additional three days' pay for the teachers so that we could extend the school
year by three days so they could do their professional development outside of
the school year in terms of when the children would actually be in school. I
think that is a very valid recommendation.
The other one, of course, is to recognize the role of the principals in our
schools, the leaders in our schools, the people to whom we have to turn to
ensure that our students are, in fact, getting a good education. We have looked
at that, recognizing again that we have to do something for our principals, and
again this is a recommendation of the Ministerial Panel.
By and large, all of the recommendations are good recommendations. We are
very comfortable with all of them and we are going to move forward with them,
recognizing again that we have to work within the resources available to us; but
I have no reason to think that those resources will not be available unless, of
course, something happens to turn our economy around so that we will not be able
to access the additional money required.
If you look at $20 million over three years, if you look at the money that we
are spending now, over $700 million a year on education in this Province, a
Province where you can see the difficulty we are having when we you see that we
have a declining student enrollment but still the cost of education continues to
increase. A lot of that, of course, again would be because of the fact that we
have a disbursed population and the geography of the Province.
Again, you talk about the cost for busing. Yes, there is a cost for busing,
an increased cost, yes. Consolidation is important, I think, because at the end
of the day we have to make sure that we are able to offer a variety of
programming for our students and we are able to offer that if we are able to
bring more of our students together.
We also have to be able to offer courses for those students who excel, and I
think we probably have not done that to the degree that we should do it in terms
of students who really need some advanced placement courses. We are trying to do
that as well in a number of ways but certainly we have done that throughout our
school system, but the centre for distance education and innovation will enable
us to do that to a much larger degree than we have been able to do it to date.
So we are looking forward to be able to take care of our average student, if
I could put it that way, but as well our students who excel in any number of
areas; but again we have to also look at those students who need special help.
If you look at our special needs area itself, that is an area where we spend $70
million and an area that we continue to focus on because we recognize that there
are needs as well. Part of the problem, though, when you look at our special
needs area, is to try and ensure that our children in special needs become more
independent rather than dependent. That is always a concern we have, because you
never know when you have gone too far in terms of taking away thei