Newfoundland and Labrador Hansard — Members' Statements; Statements by Ministers — 10 March 2020 (49th General Assembly, 1st Session, Vol. XLIX No. 31)
2020-03-10
Newfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)
PDF Version
March 10, 2020
HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS
Vol. XLIX No. 31
The
House met at 1:30 p.m.
MR. SPEAKER (Reid):
Admit strangers.
Order,
please!
I would
like to rule now on several points of order which arose on Thursday, March 5,
The
point of order raised by the Member for St. John's West: The Leader of the Third
Party stood in this House yesterday to acknowledge that she had quoted from an
erroneous information in a news story and, by consent, tabled that information.
I find the Leader of the Third Party has corrected the record and there is no
point of order on this matter.
Two
points of order raised by the Minister of Tourism, Culture, Industry and
Innovation: The first point of order related to what the minister termed
inaccurate information raised in Question Period by the Member for Terra Nova.
Inaccurate information is not a question of order. I note that Members have an
opportunity to correct information they deem inaccurate during debate.
Therefore, I'm finding no point of order.
The
second point of order raised by the Minister of Tourism, Culture, Industry and
Innovation alleged that the Member for Terra Nova had accused him of lying. I
have reviewed the Hansard on this
matter, and note that the reference in question related to private entities and
not the Member. I find there is no point of order on this.
Statements by
Members
MR. SPEAKER:
Today we will hear Members'
statements from the hon. Members for the District of Exploits, the Member for
Humber - Bay of Islands, Mount Pearl - Southlands, Conception Bay South and
Fortune Bay - Cape La Hune.
The hon.
the Member for Exploits.
MR. FORSEY:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Today I
stand in the House of Assembly to recognize a business in my district, Morgan
Printing of Bishop's Falls, who recently celebrated 90 years in business.
In 1929,
Walter and Ruth Morgan established a printing company in Bishop's Falls and with
determination made a living for their family – little did they know that their
family business would endure for four generations in the same community.
Mr.
Speaker, the business is owned by Leo and Carolyn Morgan of Bishop's Falls and
provides employment to a staff of seven to 10 people. Morgan Printing presently
provides printing products to organizations, companies and individuals
throughout the province.
Mr.
Speaker, I ask all Members in the House of Assembly to join me in congratulating
Leo and Carolyn Morgan of Morgan Printing on 90 years of business.
Thank
you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
Humber - Bay of Islands.
MR. JOYCE:
Mr. Speaker, I rise today to
recognize two Special Olympians from my district who I know very well and are
very fine young men – Brandon Park from McIver's and Philip Beales of Curling,
members of Team Newfoundland and Labrador who competed in the 2020 Special
Olympics Canada Winter Games in Thunder Bay.
Both
Brandon and Philip have been involved with Special Olympics for over seven
years.
Brandon
started speed skating two years before the 2016 Special Olympics Canada Games.
That year he brought home one gold and three silver medals in the four events he
skated. This year, as the only speed skater on Team Newfoundland, Brandon
brought home another three medals, one gold and two silver.
This was
Philip's second time competing in the Special Olympics Canada Games and won gold
in the 200 metre snowshoe race. As Philip recently said in an interview: It
doesn't matter who wins, I'm not worried about winning or losing. His goal is to
do his best and have fun.
Brandon
and Philip's sportsmanship, hard work and dedication to their sport is an
inspiration to us all and I ask all Members to join me in congratulating them on
their accomplishments and wish them continued success in the future.
Great
job guys!
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for Mount
Pearl - Southlands.
MR. LANE:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It's my
privilege to stand in this hon. House to recognize an amazing display of talent
by some of the finest young performers our province has to offer. O'Donel High
School's production of The Wedding Singer
was a treat for all ages and combined the arts of acting, singing, dancing,
comedy as well as a tremendous display of musical accompaniment by these amazing
young people and their support cast.
That is
not to mention the artistic abilities and other associated talents displayed by
those behind the scenes, whether that be in costume design, set and
construction, or other related tasks required to make this production the great
success that it was. Of course a production of this magnitude and quality
doesn't just happen. It requires the hard work and dedication of many
individuals both on the stage and behind the scenes.
therefore ask all Members of this hon. House to join me in acknowledging and
congratulating producer, Brad Jones; stage director, Scott Simms – not that
Scott Simms; musical director, Sean Carroll; choreographer, Chloe Durnford;
stage manager, Jackie Rockett; assistant stage manager, Jessica Rossiter; art
consultants, Nicole Russell and Rebecca Walsh; lighting designer, Patty Rose; as
well as the staff, parents and other volunteers that made this a success. Of
course, a huge shout out to the students themselves who dazzled us all and
brought great pride to their school, their families and their community.
Thank
you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
Conception Bay South.
MR. PETTEN:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr.
Speaker, on February 20, I had the pleasure of attending the Duke of Edinburgh's
International Award Ceremony at Glendenning Golf Club in Mount Pearl.
One of
the most prestigious awards Canada offers to our young people is the Duke of
Edinburgh's International Award. Established in Canada in 1963, the tri-level
non-competitive program encourages youth to set and achieve goals in the areas
of community services, skills, fitness and adventure.
Today, I
stand to recognize three young people from my district who received the silver
certificates from the hon. Judy Foote, Lieutenant-Governor. Congratulations to
Brianna Dawe, Ashley Russell and Jakob Dawe.
These
students are part of the COSTA – Challenge Our Students To Achieve program – an
initiative to support students with special needs. The Duke of Edinburgh's
International Award recognized that challenges vary from person to person and
that all youth should be rewarded for their remarkable achievements.
Mr.
Speaker, these individuals attend Queen Elizabeth Regional High School and
worked extremely hard in attaining their awards and I ask all hon. Members of
this House to join me in congratulating them on their achievements.
Thank
you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
Fortune Bay - Cape La Hune.
MR. LOVELESS:
Thank you.
Mr.
Speaker, I rise in this hon. House to congratulate a youth in my district, Cole
McDonald. Cole is a Grade 12 student attending St. Anne's high school in Conne
River. He's a very intelligent young man, with a bright future ahead of him.
Mr.
Speaker, every year schools in my district participate in the Interview
Olympics, part of a program offered to level II students who are registered in
career development classes. As part of this program, students complete a
professional interview process in competition for a job. Students have the
opportunity to win awards for best interview, attire, eye contact and body
language, self-confidence, résumé and cover letter writing – all the
prerequisites that entail the completion of a successful interview process.
Students
are given points based on the merits of the various categories they are scored
on. The person receiving the most points wins the competition and goes on to the
final interview, which is competing against other winners from the Coast of Bays
area. Mr. Speaker, Cole was up against intense competition, but won the
scholarship with over close to 40 competitors.
I ask
all Members to join me in congratulating Cole McDonald and wishing best of luck
to those who will be competing this year.
Thank
you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
Statements by Ministers.
Statements by
Ministers
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Health and Community Services.
MR. HAGGIE:
Thank you very much, Mr.
Speaker.
Mr.
Speaker, each March, Pharmacist Awareness Month celebrates the contributions
that pharmacists make to the health care system.
With
over 700 licensed pharmacists working in Newfoundland and Labrador, this month
recognizes the profession and highlights the services they offer.
From
renewing prescriptions, delivering vaccinations, providing medication management
services, and assessing and prescribing for minor ailments, there are many
reasons to visit your local pharmacist.
Convenient, accessible and close to home, pharmacists are there for you when you
need them.
This
month marks the official launch of the Pharmacists' Association of Newfoundland
and Labrador's annual Pharmacist of the Year campaign.
The
association is seeking nominations from the public and fellow pharmacists to
recognize two individuals who have demonstrated exemplary service as Community
Pharmacist of the Year and Hospital Pharmacist of the Year. The winners will be
announced at the association's conference gala in the fall.
encourage everyone to visit
www.panl.net and nominate
someone who they feel is deserving of such recognition.
Thank
you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
Conception Bay East - Bell Island.
MR. BRAZIL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I
thank the minister for an advance copy of his statement.
On the
occasion of Pharmacist Awareness Month, I would like to thank all pharmacists in
our province and their association for their compassion, diligence and service
they provide to us as patients.
Mr.
Speaker, pharmacists are readily available to take care of us when we are ill,
answer our questions and encourage us all to live healthier lifestyles. They
form a key part of our health care team. We're very fortunate in this province
to have pharmacists who truly care about their patients and often go the extra
mile to assist, where possible.
I would
like to take this moment to encourage the government to work with the
pharmacists to ensure that they can work within their scope of work and
practice. Pharmacists are often able to respond quickly to individuals' needs;
barriers to do this should be and can be reduced.
Mr.
Speaker, we encourage all pharmacists and all individuals to nominate your local
pharmacist for this award.
Thank
you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Leader of the
Third Party.
MS. COFFIN:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and
I, too, thank the minister for an advance copy of his statement.
Pharmacists are essential to our health care system because of their unique
is especially important in rural communities and for all of those without a
family physician.
I would
like to see MCP coverage expand to include some of the new services pharmacists
are providing so that more people can avail of them. And, please, go nominate
one.
Thank
you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
Further statements by
ministers?
The hon.
the Minister of Service NL.
MS. GAMBIN-WALSH:
Mr. Speaker, occurrences of fraudulent activity are
becoming more common. In fact, recent statistics from the Canadian Anti-Fraud
Centre show that, in 2019, Canadians lost over $98 million to fraud.
During the month
of March, the national fraud prevention campaign aims to help Canadians stand up
to scammers who are costing them millions of dollars every year. It also helps
educate and inform consumers on how to recognize, reject and report fraud.
From school-aged
children to the elderly, from consumers to corporations – everyone is vulnerable
to fraud. As the digital world becomes increasingly important in the lives of
residents, fraudsters are creating more elaborate schemes.
Knowledge is key,
Mr. Speaker, and we must all be vigilant when it comes to fraud. Beware of any
activity that does not appear to be
legitimate. Report scams to
the authorities so they can warn other people and help minimize the chances of
them spreading further. Tell you friends and family of any scams you are aware
of to avoid them becoming a victim of this type of crime.
During
Fraud Prevention Month, and throughout the year, our government encourages
consumers to learn about ways to protect themselves from fraud. We remain
committed to raising awareness about fraud and providing consumers with the
tools and information they need to protect themselves and others.
Thank
you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
Ferryland.
MR. O'DRISCOLL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I
thank the minister for an advance copy of her statement.
Mr.
Speaker, we, in the Official Opposition, are also pleased to recognize March as
Fraud Prevention Month. Fraudulent activities are certainly becoming more
common, and the statistics quoted by the minister are very disheartening. To
think that Canadians lost over $98 million to fraudsters last year is very sad
and deeply concerning.
It is
important to realize that no one is immune to fraud and any one of us can become
the victim of a scam. We must continue to educate and increase awareness
regarding these activities so that people are better equipped to protect
themselves and their families from fraud.
Thank
you very much.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
Labrador West.
MR. BROWN:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I
thank the minister for an advance copy of her statement.
The $98
million the minister referenced in her statement shows us fraudsters are
becoming bolder, more sophisticated and more unscrupulous. We must step up and
work not only to protect people, but, whenever possible, bring the scammers to
justice.
In an
online world, it is important to improve fraud prevention literacy to empower
people to know that they are being scammed. Knowledge is key; we must ensure
that the trusting and vulnerable people in our society are protected from these
people.
Thank
you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
Further statements by
ministers?
Oral
Questions.
Oral Questions
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Leader of the
Official Opposition.
MR. CROSBIE:
Mr. Speaker, thank you, Sir.
Mr.
Speaker, we have learned of an investigation conducted by the provincial
government concerning the Department of Fisheries and Land Resources building
lease in Corner Brook. Since the investigation was conducted, an unsuccessful
applicant has released a government employee's handwritten notes from the
tender. These notes have no mention of Marine Contractors Inc. – the successful
bidder during this bid opening – and confirmed the unsuccessful applicant's own
notes taken at that time.
Did the
investigation review these notes, and why do they align perfectly with the
unsuccessful applicant's notes?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Transportation and Works.
MR. CROCKER:
Thank you very much, Mr.
Speaker.
The
matter that the Leader of the Opposition refers to was referred to the Chief
Procurement Officer. I can certainly table her findings after her review to
inform him.
Mr.
Speaker, this has been referred to the Department of Justice and we will leave
it with the department to make any further decisions.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Leader of the
Official Opposition.
MR. CROSBIE:
I thank the minister for that
information.
In that
context, he's saying a referral to the Department of Justice. His department,
Transportation and Works, uses a system internal to the department to track
tenders. Over the course of the investigation, it illustrated a defect in the
system such that the wrong date could be entered into the system.
Could
this defect have allowed the date of bid receipt to be recorded after the bid
deadline, and is that in consideration in the course of the investigation?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Transportation and Works.
MR. CROCKER:
Thank you very much, Mr.
Speaker, and I thank the Leader of the Opposition for the question.
When
this matter came to light back last spring, we actually referred it to the Chief
Procurement Officer. The Chief Procurement Officer did a review. I'll certainly
table the letter from the Chief Procurement Officer.
Mr.
Speaker, what we're talking about, government employees who work in the
tendering office who do this literally hundreds of times a year, so the
activities of that particular tender were reviewed and reviewed by the Chief
Procurement Officer. I'm more than willing to table her findings, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Leader of the
Official Opposition.
MR. CROSBIE:
Yes, Mr. Speaker.
Could I
ask the Acting Minister of Justice if he can inform the House as to when the
investigation by his department might reach some kind of conclusion?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Transportation and Works.
MR. CROCKER:
Mr. Speaker, again, I thank
the hon. Member for the question.
The
investigation or the review was done by the Chief Procurement Officer. Any
further legal proceedings regarding this are a matter between the proponent and
the Department of Justice.
Thank
you very much, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Leader of the
Official Opposition.
MR. CROSBIE:
I thank the minister.
The
lease is virtually the longest lease held by the government and is unusual at 20
years and nearly $20 million in value.
During
the last election, the Minister of Fisheries and Land Resources campaign
headquarters was located in a building owned by the successful bidder.
What
personal or professional relationship does the minister have with this company,
its board and its owner?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Transportation and Works.
MR. CROCKER:
Thank you very much, Mr.
Speaker, and again I thank the hon. Member for the question.
What the
hon. Member opposite is doing right here today is he's questioning the integrity
of the men and women that serve in the public tendering office in this building.
That's what he's doing. He's questioning the abilities of those people to do
their job. They literally do this job hundreds, maybe thousands of times a year.
They open tenders on a daily basis, typically 12 noon.
Mr.
Speaker, they did their job. It was reviewed by the Chief Procurement Officer.
Again, he's questioning the integrity of people who work day in and day out,
clerks and others who oversee our public tendering process, and I'm more than
willing to table the findings of the Chief Procurement Officer.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Leader of the
Official Opposition.
MR. CROSBIE:
I have just been informed the
matter is being referred to the Department of Justice. So, yes, integrity would
seem to be an issue.
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Transportation and Works.
MR. CROCKER:
Mr. Speaker, I didn't find a
question there but I will take the opportunity again to say that this matter was
referred to the Chief Procurement Officer. There was a finding. I'm more than
willing to table that finding; furthermore, what I did say to the hon. Member
opposite is that this matter is now a matter between the proponent and the
Department of Justice.
Thank
you very much, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for Cape
St. Francis.
MR. K. PARSONS:
Thank you very much, Mr.
Speaker.
The
Department of Fisheries and Oceans have repeatedly delayed the harp seal
population count.
Minister, are you aware if the count has occurred, and can you inform us of the
results?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Fisheries and Land Resources.
MR. BYRNE:
No, Mr. Speaker, I have not
been informed by the Department of Fisheries and Oceans as to what their census
numbers or their scientific analysis is of to date, but I would join with the
hon. Member opposite if there's something that we both agree on – there are many
things we both agree on, but this is definitely one of them.
Seals –
in particular harp seals, but in addition to grey seals – have a significant
impact, a negative impact on the stock recovery of cod and other species,
including capelin. It has impacts on many, many species and this should be
better investigated by the federal government.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for Cape
St. Francis.
MR. K. PARSONS:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
We've
seen images and heard stories of harvesters finding enough shrimp and crab in
the stomachs of seals to fill buckets.
Minister, why are you doing nothing and saying nothing to the federal government
and asking them to act on what's happening with our seal population?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Fisheries and Land Resources.
MR. BYRNE:
First off, I'd like to say
thank to my hon. critic for his questions. I don't get very many in the House on
fisheries matters. This is very welcomed because it does allow a dialogue to
occur which the entire province can hear.
It is
true that seals do have a serious impact on a number of species, a number of
ecosystems. Better information is required. I am disappointed, I am genuinely
disappointed that the federal government hasn't acted quickly and more strongly
on this, but I am encouraged by the fact that the federal government has
established a seal science advisory team. We asked, as a government, to be a
member of that team. We have science capacity within the provincial government.
They have looked for resources elsewhere, but we will continue to be involved in
this process.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for Cape
St. Francis.
MR. K. PARSONS:
Thank you very much, Mr.
Speaker.
Last
August, leading into the federal election, your federal cousins announced
Atlantic seals task force team. Last week, after seven months, we finally heard
who's on that team.
Minister, how long will it take before we see action on the control of the
serious overpopulation of seals? It's not good enough to be disappointed.
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Fisheries and Land Resources.
MR. BYRNE:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I seem
to be leading the hon. Member in his questions.
It is
not acceptable that there has – the level of action today has not been
acceptable. I do not know exactly when the findings will be produced, but what I
do know is it cannot happen soon enough.
If there
is something that the hon. Member and I have in common – it's a value and a
principle that we share – it's our oceans. If the federal government is to stand
up with integrity and say that the ecosystem is important, that our oceans are
important, then they have to take some difficult, but important first steps in
protecting our oceans. That includes an active, engaged seal management plan and
one that hopefully is based on expanding markets for seal products as a first
priority.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for Cape
St. Francis.
MR. K. PARSONS:
In a news release announcing
the task force team, DFO stated seals feed on all kinds of fish, cod, capelin,
herring, halibut, redfish and even shrimp. It also stated that the number of
seals has dramatically increased in recent years.
Minister, we need to get this count and we need action. Every day we're hearing
things in our fishery about decline in stocks. Someone needs to take some
action. You're the Fisheries Minister in this province. When are you going to do
it?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. Minister of
Fisheries and Land Resources.
MR. BYRNE:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
That
action is already underway.
It has
been said by several DFO scientists – and I won't challenge their integrity or
their findings, but I will question whether or not the Department of Fisheries
and Oceans itself has put the necessary resources into investigating this
question. There has been some suggestion that the impact on cod and cod recovery
is negligible. I find that very, very difficult to believe.
I also
find that the level of effort that has been put forward on this question,
unsatisfactory from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. What I'll also agree
with the hon. Member about is that capelin as a resource species, as a part of
the food chain, is impacted by seals. That also has a consequential element to
the recovery of cod.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for Cape
St. Francis.
MR. K. PARSONS:
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
The
coronavirus is having a huge impact on the global economy and the economy of our
province. People in the fishing industry are very concerned.
Minister, what's the plan to ensure that the industry will be prepared for
market changes and the availability to get seafood to market?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Fisheries and Land Resources.
MR. BYRNE:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It is
very much an evolving situation and an evolving question, but one we're on top
of. I am meeting with leaders in the seafood industry on a daily basis, getting
their feedback, getting their intelligence on impacts on logistics, impacts on
markets.
The
primary concern here is that consumers and demand for fish is facing a temporary
– hopefully, it's a very temporary reduction. In particular, markets in Asia
and, in particular, markets in China where it is a very social environment
there, people are not eating out, it's having an impact. Moving fish within
China is difficult and moving fish over into Asia and China is difficult.
We're
working together as an industry, Mr. Speaker. I'm happy to report to the House
that I'm engaged in constant communication with our industry leaders to help
find bridges to better markets and better success.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for Cape
St. Francis.
MR. K. PARSONS:
Thank you very much for your answer. It's very important that we stay on top of
it.
Minister, the Fisheries Department has no ADM; this is a critical point in our
fishery.
Why is
there no ADM in Fisheries?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Fisheries and Land Resources.
MR. BYRNE:
Mr. Speaker, it is not entirely unusual for a transition to occur in Executive.
We're in a transition moment. We are actively looking and engaged in finding the
proper skill set to have that position staffed. I'll be happy to inform this
House when such decisions are taken.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
Harbour Main.
MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:
Mr. Speaker, in March 2019, the Justice Minister announced pilot programs to
test three initiatives: adult diversion, electronic monitoring and bail
supervision.
Is the
minister now able to report whether these pilot programs proved to be
successful, as we had hoped?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Education and Early Childhood Development.
MR. WARR:
Mr. Speaker, I don't have that information here with me, but I'll certainly get
the answer for the hon. Member and table it in this House.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
Harbour Main.
MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:
Mr. Speaker, pilot programs are usually tested in select areas and applied more
broadly if they prove successful. Adult diversion was piloted in Stephenville
and Corner Brook; electronic monitoring and bail supervision were tested in St.
John's.
Does the
government plan to expand these programs to other areas?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Education and Early Childhood Development.
MR. WARR:
Again, Mr. Speaker, I will
certainly take the question from the hon. Member under advisement and I will
ensure to get a report tabled in this House of Assembly at my earliest
convenience.
Thank
you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
Harbour Main.
MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:
Mr. Speaker,
justice must be applied evenly and fairly.
Does the
minister agree that if the government plans regarding restorative justice
measures are not expanded, that that would deny fair access to these programs to
people from rural areas?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Education and Early Childhood Development.
MR. WARR:
Mr. Speaker, bail supervision
policies are being drafted in preparation to begin accepting clients in the
coming months. Bail supervision provides an alternative to pre-trial detention
that reduces custodial cost by supervising the accused in a community and
providing referrals, monitoring and support.
Again,
Mr. Speaker, I will allude to the Member's prior questions, I will certainly get
those answers for her and table them here in the House of Assembly.
Thank
you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
Harbour Main.
MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:
Mr. Speaker, one
more question regarding the Drug Treatment Court in St. John's.
It's an
important pilot project and we are wondering, if it proves to be successful, are
there plans to expand it to other areas so more people can get the kind of
treatment that can divert them from crime by helping them escape their
addictions – something that's truly in the best interest of all of us.
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Education and Early Childhood Development.
MR. WARR:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I
thank the hon. Member for the question.
Drug
Treatment Court is an alternative approach for offenders with serious drug
addictions who commit non-violent, drug-motivated offences. The Drug Treatment
Court in St. John's brings together treatment services for substance abuse and
the criminal justice system to deal more effectively with drug-addicted
offenders.
Thank
you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Opposition House
Leader.
MR. BRAZIL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Could
the Minister of Natural Resources please give us an update on the payments owed
to the former workers of Astaldi? Why are these individuals still waiting for
monies they are owed?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Natural Resources.
MS. COADY:
Thank you very much, Mr.
Speaker.
appreciate the question. This is a very difficult time for some workers at
Astaldi who have not had all of their claims settled at this point. As the
Member opposite knows, this is before the courts. We have been advocating on
behalf of some Astaldi workers.
As you
know, Mr. Speaker, when Astaldi was terminated from the site, all workers were
paid up until the final day. There were some workers that had additional days
after that, that have yet to be paid, plus some back pay that was owing and some
bonus money that was owing and some other payments that were made. These are
caught up in this court case, Mr. Speaker. We'll continue to advocate on their
behalf.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Opposition House
Leader.
MR. BRAZIL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Government had the ability to pay these workers. Mr. Speaker, government could
have made the situation right at the time.
I ask
the minister to make the right decision now, immediately, and ensure that these
individuals are paid the monies that they're owed.
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Natural Resources.
MS. COADY:
Mr. Speaker, you know, I have
a great deal of empathy and it's very difficult on a number of people that were
employed. I will remind the Member opposite they were employed by Astaldi. They
weren't employed by the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador; they were
employed by a contractor to a Crown corporation.
There is
recourse, of course, through the courts. I understand some of them are going
through that, Mr. Speaker, at this point in time. We certainly hope that they
would be able to reclaim, but there are a growing number of companies and
individuals who are working through that process as well. We will continue to
advocate on their behalf.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
Bonavista.
MR. PARDY:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I thank
ending all student international travel to Europe for the remainder of the year.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. PARDY:
Mr. Speaker, our office is
getting numerous reports of parents and school councils inquiring about hand
sanitizers in schools. Schools have been told that there is none available and
none is coming.
How can
the minister expect districts and schools to get ready for the arrival of the
coronavirus if they are lacking one these necessary tools to combat?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Education and Early Childhood Development.
MR. WARR:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I
thank the hon. Member for his question.
Mr.
Speaker, the school district is working with provincial health officials on
information to send to all schools and parents across the province as well. This
information should be distributed very soon.
I would
suggest – the Member makes a comment with regard to hand sanitizers. We still
have soap and water that we can use. I realize that there's a shortage of hand
sanitizers throughout the province, but we must ensure that education from
families at home to their children is paramount. We'll make sure that we can get
a supply of the sanitizer at our earliest possible convenience.
Thank
you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
Bonavista.
MR. PARDY:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It is
more than a matter of information and, yes, soap and water is essential but, Mr.
Speaker, schools across the country are taking proactive measures to protect
students, teachers and staff from the virus. This includes enhanced cleaning
protocols, hand hygiene and respiratory etiquette practices.
Schools
in Newfoundland apparently have no excess, through their commodity listing, for
ordering hygiene supplies such as hand sanitizer, disinfecting wipes and Clorox
bleach. We can't expect to maintain a safe environment for learning without.
Can the
minister check to see why these products are not on the schools' commodity
listing? There is no time like the present to assure we maximize our readiness.
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Education and Early Childhood Development.
MR. WARR:
Mr. Speaker, again, I thank
the hon. Member for his question.
Certainly, he brings up a very good point. Mr. Speaker, it's all about the
health and safety of our students and of our teachers and staff as well.
We will
continue to work closely with public health officials seeking guidance to help
us get the message out about ways to protect ourselves.
Thank
you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for Grand
Falls-Windsor - Buchans.
MR. TIBBS:
Thank you very much, Mr.
Speaker.
Mr.
Speaker, yesterday the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Environment doubled
down on his new rule that municipalities will get no money from government for
any work until they fix their drinking water problems.
Minister, does this mean there will be no money for improvements to roads, to
buildings or for fire services in the affected municipalities?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Municipal Affairs and Environment.
MR. BRAGG:
That is a misguided question,
Mr. Speaker.
No pun
intended. That was definitely a misguided question.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
MR. BRAGG:
There's no way, Mr. Speaker.
We met with representatives of MNL yesterday. We explained to those people we're
addressing the boil-water advisory situation for this province. We have money in
our MCW funds. All we are asking these municipalities, who are currently on a
boil order, is to apply to get yourself off a boil order for your next round of
capital works funding.
Any
money these guys might have in the bank right now is there for them to use for
whatever they have decided, but we're just asking in the future, those 144 towns
on long-term boil-water advisories, to please address this situation first.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for Grand
Falls-Windsor - Buchans.
MR. TIBBS:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I
thank the minister for his answer.
We're
not debating whether they need clean drinking water or that's not a priority.
The
minister himself is a former municipal administrator in a small rural town.
Can the
minister explain why he feels he is better equipped to determine the priorities
for municipalities than the residents and the elected officials of these towns
themselves?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Municipal Affairs and Environment.
MR. BRAGG:
Mr. Speaker, I spent 30 years
in a small town. The town I'm from has a population of 300 people on a good day.
You can't find many other small towns with a small-town budget, with a
small-town tax collection. I'm willing to give you a great example if you'll
give me the allowance of a little extra time, Mr. Speaker, to nail this home.
neighbouring community of 155 people were on a boil order for 20 years. They
changed their council – and this is by no means in respect of who goes there –
it was a lot of young moms who got on the council, who felt very adamant about
removing a boil order for their town. They invested in their neighbouring town
of (inaudible). It's not hard to figure out. You can throw a stone to them from
me. I'm sorry, Mr. Speaker, but this needs to be said.
These
people with a budget of $160,000 a year invested in their pumphouse, put in a
new water tank and have been off a boil-water advisory for three years
consecutively, Mr. Speaker. There it is.
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. minister's time has
expired.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for Grand
Falls-Windsor - Buchans.
MR. TIBBS:
That's great to hear, Mr.
Speaker, and we feel as though we want everybody off the boil orders as well.
The fact
of the matter is these municipalities can't be held at ransom because of this
decision. They need to be able to make their own decisions. So maybe the
minister can work with them instead of going against them and letting your own
department make the decision.
The
minister did not even bother to consult with MNL, the organization that works
very hard, which represents local governments across the province, before
imposing this new rule. So much for collaboration and transparency from this
government.
Minister, why didn't you consult the important stakeholder as MNL? Why didn't
you just consult them?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Municipal Affairs and Environment.
MR. BRAGG:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I would
like for the Member opposite to do a little more research.
In 2014
and 2015, I was on a panel with MNL and we presented a report with 18
recommendations to the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. I was a part of
that. So I was consulting in that time. I've been there. We met with them
yesterday, Mr. Speaker.
Are the
Members opposite saying that we should not address the boil-water advisory?
Because we are not holding these towns on ransom. We're helping these towns. We
have operators. We have educators who can go in there with these people.
I hear
the Member opposite chirping over there about boil-water advisories. He doesn't
live in a small town that's forced to drink unfit drinking water. We're all
worried about the coronavirus right now; let's talk about the boil-water
advisories.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
Stephenville - Port au Port, for a quick question.
MR. WAKEHAM:
Mr. Speaker, yesterday, the Acting Minister of Advanced Education, Skills and
Labour was unable to provide any definitive details about the request for
emergency assistance for businesses and individuals impacted by the January
state of emergency. Rather than offer these details, the minister talked about,
quote: offering them opportunities to expand and get into the marketplace.
Mr.
Speaker, these businesses are still reeling and may not be around long enough to
take the minister up on his offer.
I ask,
what exactly is he going to offer businesses and when?
Thank
you.
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Tourism, Culture, Industry and Innovation, for a quick answer.
MR. DAVIS:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I'd like
to thank the hon. Member for the question as well.
One of
the things that I did say – and I feel for the individuals who were impacted
during the state of emergency; it was a difficult time for everyone. I lived
through it in my own community and many other people did as well. From that
standpoint, everything we can do as a government with respect to economic
development in regions, we've done. We're working as hard as we can in
partnership, because partnership is going to be key.
There
has never been as much collaboration between businesses, communities and
government as there is right now. One of the things we're working on is the
opportunities for businesses to grow; opportunities for businesses to provide
marketing opportunities for them as well – market readiness.
Some of
those opportunities can be reached through our department. If they have a
business idea for a region, we'd like to see that come into our office. Our
staff are fantastic. They work very hard to try to –
MR. SPEAKER:
The minister's time has
expired.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Leader of the
Third Party.
MS. COFFIN:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Last
year, the Premier made an election promise of $200 million from the federal
government to mitigate Muskrat Falls power rates; however, in the latest rate
mitigation announcement, the federal minister of Natural Resources said
negotiations on financial restructuring are just beginning.
I ask
the Premier: What happened to his $200 million promise?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Premier.
PREMIER BALL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The rate
mitigation program that we released last year through the Department of Natural
Resources was one of fill in the gap of $200 million. This would have been in
conjunction with negotiations with the federal government.
Mr.
Speaker, we have a very strong group of individuals. Just a few minutes ago when
we released the report on the inquiry of Muskrat Falls, I was asked this very
question.
There
are meetings ongoing right now. It is very complex, very complicated. The
financial structure that's there, cost of service, electrification,
decarbonization of this province, Mr. Speaker, monetization of certain assets.
All within the scope of the Muskrat Falls Project, Mr. Speaker.
Our rate
mitigation plan that was put in place prior to the election last year was the
only credible plan. The Leader of the Third Party didn't even have one, Mr.
Speaker, and the Leader of the Opposition had one that was $150 million double
(inaudible).
MR. SPEAKER:
The Premier's time has
expired.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Leader of the
Third Party.
MS. COFFIN:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr.
Speaker, the oil industry is in a state of upheaval and we are perilously close
to economic and environmental catastrophe, yet government proudly promotes its
$110 million equity investment in Equinor.
I ask
the Premier: Wouldn't it be better to spend that $110 million on economic
diversification or schools or roads, or health care or dental, or anything else?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Premier.
PREMIER BALL:
Mr. Speaker, when you look at
the question, or when you consider the question that was just asked, none of
them, except for economic diversification, which is a big part of our Way
Forward – we're putting thousands of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians to work in
our province. But the rest of the question around health care, around education
and so on, dental and so on, all of these require revenue.
So the
decision was made, as we make strategic investments in the things like in the
offshore of Newfoundland and Labrador – when governments invest in equity
positions – not suggesting that this will be policy forever – but when they do
it adds confidence and it helps attract companies like our offshore companies to
invest in Newfoundland and Labrador.
Mr.
Speaker, I want to remind the Member opposite too, when you look globally, as we
reduce our carbon footprint, we have some of the best oil on the face of this
earth when it comes to carbon intensity.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
Labrador West.
MR. BROWN:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The
Labrador Affairs office was established in Labrador West in 2012 to deal with
the boom in the region, acting as a conduit between government, companies and
municipalities. It housed a regional task force to guide development. The work
of this office was not done as long the industry continues to evolve.
I ask
the Minister Responsible for Labrador Affairs: Why was the Labrador Affairs
office in Labrador West closed with such secrecy over the Christmas holidays?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Premier.
PREMIER BALL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Well, I
think the Member opposite would know, because I invited him and told him that I
would be attending a meeting in Labrador West this week. I did meet with the
Labrador City council and with the council of Wabush Friday. This very issue
came up, Mr. Speaker. I explained to the people that (inaudible) this is the
only community that we have in our province that would have an economic director
in the community.
So, Mr.
Speaker, right now when you look at the economy in Labrador West, including
Labrador City and Wabush, it's booming right now. People will tell you that.
What we wanted to do is restructure the office of Labrador Affairs. This
administration, for the first time in the history of Labrador Affairs, will put
a deputy minister within the Labrador Affairs office. They will then facilitate
the organizational change. We have great people that work out of Labrador West
(inaudible).
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. Member's time is
expired.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for St.
John's Centre.
MR. J. DINN:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr.
Speaker, teachers have expressed concern about a shortage of cleaning staff in
positions until well into the school year. Sadly, this situation hasn't changed
much since I was a teacher and served as NLTA president.
I ask
the Minister of Education and Early Childhood Development: In light of the
outbreak of COVID-19 and the need to take cautionary measures, what assurances,
if any, can he provide that schools will be staffed with a full complement of
janitorial staff at all times?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Education and Early Childhood Development.
MR. WARR:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I
thank the hon. Member for the question.
We had
an opportunity to speak earlier and he advised me of this situation. Mr.
Speaker, I can assure the hon. Member that I have taken his concern to the
department and asked for a full update.
Mr.
Speaker, we certainly take what the Member is saying very seriously and we will
ensure that we deal with the district and the schools on the situation. With
regard to the schools, we'll continue to work with the public health officers to
ensure that our schools and properties are as clean as they possibly can be.
Thank
you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The time for Question Period
has expired.
Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.
Tabling
of Documents.
Tabling of
Documents
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Transportation and Works.
MR. CROCKER:
Thank you very much, Mr.
Speaker.
During
Question Period, the Leader of the Opposition raised some questions around a
tendering process. I referenced a ruling or a decision or some information that
we received back in June of 2019 from the Chief Procurement Officer.
Mr.
Speaker, I wish to table this at this time for this House and assure the Members
opposite that we have great faith in the staff at the tendering and procurement
offices throughout government.
Thank
you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER:
Further tabling of documents?
Notices
of Motion.
Answers
to Questions for which Notice has been Given.
Petitions.
Petitions
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
Placentia West - Bellevue.
MR. DWYER:
I rise in my place today to
(technical difficulties) closure of Pearce Junior High.
notice of school closures stating that the final decision will be made in March
28, 2020.
Residents have expressed concerns about the potential closure of Pearce Junior
High in Burin, as the region is projected to grow and a premature decision to
close the school would leave the region without the capacity to serve the
education needs of the people.
Therefore we, the undersigned, call upon the House of Assembly to urge the
Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to ensure that Pearce Junior High School
does remain open.
What's
intriguing about this one here, actually – just looking at the signatures that
are on this particular petition, Your Honour, of the nine names that are on
this, only one is actually from my district. All the rest are from Burin,
Lewin's Cove, so these people are affected as well. Like I said, the school is
physically not in my district, but all the people are. I'm here to work side by
side with the neighbouring district to ensure that this school doesn't close.
When you
have new industry like Grieg NL Seafarms that has a big footprint going in down
in the Marystown area and you're trying to attract workers, then obviously when
these young families are looking to start a new career in a new location, the
first two economic indicators that show them that they're moving to a desperate
area is closing hospital beds and closing schools. So this is not sending the
right message of what we're doing on the Burin Peninsula.
We have
a very burgeoning economy on the Burin Peninsula and on the isthmus side, I must
say, of my district as well of Placentia West - Bellevue, but the way this was
rolled out was kind of cart before the horse type of stuff. There were options
laid out. Now one of the options is off the table. We don't know where the
options came from. We don't know what they were based on. We asked questions.
This autonomous board doesn't really want to answer any questions.
I think
there needs to be some changes made to the system that's in place so that the
autonomy – I have no problem with them making decisions, but they have to be
accountable to the department. Right now, I don't think they're exactly
accountable to the department. I know that this goes on from time to time, but
in the meantime, they really selected the absolute wrong area of the whole
province to put up this school closure, because it's sending the absolute
opposite message of what everybody else is trying to send in the district in
order to attract workers and to improve the economy.
I think
it is incumbent on the Cabinet on the other side – not just the Minister of
Education, but the whole Cabinet – to realize that what they've done here is
sent the wrong message to anybody that we're trying to attract and anybody that
we're trying to retain. In order to get doctors and nurses retained as well,
this is another really poor indicator.
I think
if this is to continue, we're going down the wrong path of understanding what
educational outcomes should be. Right now in the Marystown Central school area,
they just had a 100 per cent graduation rate of Grade 12 last year. So I think
it's a benchmark for the province, not one that needs to close.
Thank
you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Education and Early Childhood Development, for a response.
MR. WARR:
Mr. Speaker, again, I heard
the Member's statement yesterday. I spoke to him yesterday; I'll speak to him
again today. I have a lot of respect for the Member bringing this petition on
behalf of the people to House of Assembly.
Mr.
Speaker, let me clearly state that this is not about closing schools. It's about
ensuring resources are being used to maximize program opportunities for all
students in a region. We're not just out here closing schools. There's a process
here.
Again,
as I mentioned to the Member yesterday, I was so happy to see the support that
came out for Pearce Junior High in the community of Marystown. The room was
full. I had an opportunity to speak with NLESD with regard to their visit to
Marystown. They were certainly impressed, Mr. Speaker, with the information that
came back to them from these residents.
We will
ensure that the process takes place and it takes place properly.
Thank
you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for Mount
Pearl North.
MR. LESTER:
Mr. Speaker, I'm pretty sure
I feel confident in saying that just about every one of us do not choose to have
a compromised health situation, but the reality is there is a segment of our
population that does. The reality is in most situations people are not subject
to the burden of attacks when they go to seek out the medications they use to
treat their specific ailments.
Mr.
Speaker, all other medicines, except medically prescribed cannabis, are tax
exempt. It's been about a year since I presented this petition and asked the
House of Assembly to consider removing the tax on medically prescribed cannabis.
Applying
tax to medical cannabis is making it too expensive for many patients who are
already struggling with financial issues and physical issues and mental issues.
This financial barrier to their health and well-being is, therefore, subjecting
these patients and these individuals to unnecessary pain and suffering.
Therefore, we petition the hon. House of Assembly as follow: We, the
undersigned, call on this House of Assembly to urge the Government of
Newfoundland and Labrador to remove the portion of provincial tax for medical
cannabis users.
Mr.
Speaker, we did have the privilege of the Minister of Finance replying to this
petition on several occasions and that was, as I said, about a year ago. At this
time, I look forward to his response once again to see if he did actually look
into means and ways of removing this unnecessary tax from individuals who do
rely on medically prescribed cannabis to treat their medical conditions.
It's
unfair for us to, basically, profit excessively off medically prescribed
cannabis, off individuals who have found this as a source and a mediation to
their particular physical and mental challenges.
Mr.
Speaker, this is something that is insulting to those individuals. It's
insulting to me. Even though I don't rely on any medicine, I've been fortune to
have good health, but that doesn't say – that may change down the road.
It's
most important for us to stand up for those who are having difficultly standing
up for themselves, and we don't need to tax their lot in life.
Mr.
Speaker, I look forward to the minister's response.
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for St.
John's Centre.
MR. J. DINN:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Whereas
in 2008 the provincial government instituted a provincial teacher allocation
model to address the educational needs of students by providing class size caps
for K to 9 and additional administrative time for school leaders. This new
allocation model was to be reviewed in 2011.
Following the implementation of the 2008 class size caps, government instituted
a “soft cap” policy which allowed some classrooms to exceed the established 2008
caps.
In 2009,
government began the forced integration of students with special needs into
regular classrooms without adequate supports under the inclusive education
initiative. In doing so, dramatically changing classroom composition and
complexity.
In the
absence of the Cabinet directive to review the 2008 teacher allocation model,
successive governments have increased class sizes in Grades 4 to 9 and reduced
administrative time for school leaders.
As a
result, students, including students with special needs, have been placed into
larger classrooms with greater complexities of need. The result has been an
increase in student absenteeism and violence coupled by a decrease in available
teacher time for individual students.
Therefore we, the elected leaders and representatives of the Newfoundland and
Labrador Teachers' Association, petition the hon. House of Assembly as follows:
We, the undersigned, call upon the House of Assembly to urge the Government of
Newfoundland and Labrador to conduct an independent review of the Teacher
Allocation Model with a report to be prepared by June 30, 2021.
This has
been signed by 68 members of the NLTA, including the executive and branch
presidents from across the province.
Mr.
Speaker, in many ways, when we look at allocation, it should be almost somewhat
aligned to determining the number of life rafts that you include on an
ocean-going ship. You just don't pick a number out of the air but you look at
the number of people who are travelling on that ship, and in a school, look at
the needs of the students in that school.
Soft
caps are troubling; caps that are arbitrarily assigned are troubling because at
times teachers, administrators and the association wonder what the rationale is
in choosing a particular number, or why such initiatives as combined grades,
increased class sizes without the necessary supports are brought into place. We
have an inclusion model. We have a Safe &
Caring Schools Policy – although, at times, I've been known to slip into the
safe and scary schools policy, because what's missing to make that policy work
are the resources that are needed there.
It's
interesting in some cases, Mr. Speaker, the class size violate fire codes. So
what we do call upon is the minister to institute an independent review and to
have a report by June 2021.
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Education and Early Childhood Development.
MR. WARR:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I
thank the hon. Member for his petition.
It's
certainly an important one and a timely one, Mr. Speaker. Since we launched the
Education Action Plan in 2018, we've
been adding teacher resources, new reading specialists, a new position called
teaching and learning assistant and we've increased learning resource teachers.
These resources, all 350 of them, will be fully implemented by September of 2020
and, certainly, we'll make sure that we take a look at the class caps after the
full implementation.
I'd like
to point out, Mr. Speaker, while the class cap size for Grade 4 is 28, only 19
of 226 classrooms have 28 students. For Grade 7, only eight classes out of 228
are at the cap, and in Grade 9, only eight of 218 classes are at the cap.
I just
want to add that piece of information for the hon. Member, Mr. Speaker.
Thank
you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
Further petitions?
Orders of the Day
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Government House
Leader.
MS. COADY:
Thank you very much, Mr.
Speaker.
I move,
seconded by the Minister of Health and Community Services, for leave to
introduce a bill,
An Act To Amend The Personal Property Security Act, Bill 27,
and that this bill shall now be read a first time.
MR. SPEAKER:
It is moved and seconded that
the hon. minister shall have leave to introduce a bill entitled,
An Act To Amend
The Personal Property Security Act, Bill 27, and that the said bill now be read
a first time.
Is it
the pleasure of the House to adopt this motion?
All
those in favour, 'aye.'
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Aye.
MR. SPEAKER:
All those against, 'nay.'
Carried.
Motion,
the hon. the Minister of Service Newfoundland and Labrador to introduce a bill,
“An Act To Amend The Personal Property Security Act,” carried. (Bill 27)
CLERK (Barnes):
A bill,
An Act To Amend The
Personal Property Security Act. (Bill 27)
MR. SPEAKER:
The bill has now been read a
first time.
When
shall the bill be read a second time?
MS. COADY:
Tomorrow.
MR. SPEAKER:
Tomorrow.
motion, Bill 27 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Government House
Leader.
MS. COADY:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I move,
seconded by the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board, for leave
to introduce a bill entitled,
An Act To Amend The Forestry Act, Bill 28, and I
further move that the said bill be now read a first time.
MR. SPEAKER:
It is moved and seconded that
the hon. minister shall have leave to introduce a bill entitled,
An Act To Amend
The Forestry Act, Bill 28, and that this bill now be read a first time.
Is it
the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?
All
those in favour, 'aye.'
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Aye.
MR. SPEAKER:
All those against, 'nay.'
Carried.
Motion,
the hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Land Resources to introduce a bill, “An
Act To Amend The Forestry Act,” carried. (Bill 28)
CLERK:
A bill,
An Act To Amend The
Forestry Act. (Bill 28)
MR. SPEAKER:
The bill has now been read a
first time.
When
shall the bill be read a second time?
MS. COADY:
Tomorrow.
MR. SPEAKER:
Tomorrow.
motion, Bill 28 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Government House
Leader.
MS. COADY:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Orders
of the Day, Order 2, Committee of Supply.
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Finance and President of Treasury Board.
MR. OSBORNE:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It's a
pleasure to stand again and speak to Supply today. I know yesterday there were a
couple of amendments put forward.
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
MR. OSBORNE:
Oh, sorry, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER:
We have to move to Committee
before we do that.
The hon.
the Government House Leader.
MS. COADY:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Sorry.
We didn't do that effectively, did we?
I move,
Mr. Speaker, seconded by the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury
Board, that we now move to Committee on Bill 26, respecting the granting of
Interim Supply to Her Majesty.
MR. SPEAKER:
The motion is that the bill
be referred to a Committee of Supply and that I do now leave the Chair.
Is it
the pleasure of the House to adopt this motion?
All
those in favour, 'aye.'
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Aye.
MR. SPEAKER:
All those against, 'nay.'
Carried.
motion, that the House resolve itself into a Committee of Whole on Supply, the
Speaker left the Chair.
Committee of the
Whole
CHAIR (Bennett):
Order, please!
We're
now going to debate Interim Supply, Bill 26.
MR. OSBORNE:
My colleague asked if he
could speak before I did, so I (inaudible) very gracious.
CHAIR:
The Speaker recognizes the
Member for Humber - Bay of Islands.
MR. JOYCE:
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
And I
thank the Minister of Finance for giving me the opportunity to stand and speak
on Interim Supply.
It's
about an issue that I was involved with back –
CHAIR:
Order, please!
MR. JOYCE:
It's about an issue –
CHAIR:
Order, please!
We have
to read the resolution first.
MR. JOYCE:
Sorry.
Resolution
Be it resolved by the House
of Assembly in Legislative Session convened, as follows:
“That it
is expedient to introduce a measure to provide for the granting to Her Majesty
for defraying certain expenses of the public service for the financial year
ending March 31, 2021 the sum of $4,602,859,900.”
CHAIR:
We are now debating the
amendment.
Now we
recognize the Member for Humber - Bay of Islands.
MR. JOYCE:
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I
thank the Minister of Finance for allowing me to speak for a few minutes before
he stands up.
It's
concerning an issue that I was involved with back in 2015, the Placentia
wellness centre. It was brought to my attention once again, this wellness centre
is on review by the Department of Municipal Affairs and Environment.
I just
want to go back to 2015, Mr. Chair, when this first came to light. I was dealing
with the town at the time and I had a few words with the committee, the Lions
Club. It was an issue in 2015 that the money was announced by the former premier
of $30 million for Vale. Part of that money, $4.5 million I think it was, was
going to the Placentia wellness centre. There was a bit of an issue there at the
time because there was no money received. I know the Minister of Natural
Resources confirmed that in writing to the Minister of Service NL, the Member
for Placentia - St. Mary's, but it was never received.
Again,
I'm just bringing this up personally because I was accused of taking $30
million, leveraging federal funds and spending it all on the West Coast, but we
never received the funds.
After
working with the town council, there was no headway with it because the town at
the time didn't want to borrow any additional funds. I know the Lions Club,
under Mr. Jamie Neville, went out and spent a lot of money to do a lot of
research. I think up to $600,000, if my memory is correct.
What
happened then, they couldn't use it. Because we were using federal funds, they
couldn't use the funding. I spoke to Mr. Neville personally several times about
it and with the new council that came in place, new mayor, Mr. Bernie Power, the
project start moving ahead.
I know
the Minister of Municipal Affairs is listening intently to this because it's a
big issue. The people of Placentia - St. Mary's, the whole region of Placentia,
this is a major issue that has been ongoing for a number of years.
Mr.
Chair, I just want to make it quite clear that the Minister of Service NL, the
Member for Placentia - St. Mary's, was well aware of this here from the
beginning. Right from the beginning. I'll say to the minister: Now my
understanding is it's being held up because it's in a possible flood zone. I
just have to get this straight, that this wellness centre is being held up
because of a possible flood zone.
I don't
know what the issue is and I raised it with the minister, but this mayor, Bernie
Power, and the council and all the residents and the Lions Club in Placentia has
been working so hard for this and they can't get answers on why this is being
held up.
I know
the Member for Placentia - St. Mary's, the Minister of Service NL, is saying
that she's not aware of it. Well, she was aware of it. I just want to say to the
minister, the Placentia wellness centre is attached to the stadium. The stadium
is in a flood zone. The hospital is in the same flood zone. The new school that
was just built is in the same flood zone.
I have
to say to the minister, you have to come to some conclusion on this. When this
was approved back in 2017, Mr. Chair, the Department of Municipal Affairs and
Environment then did their assessment. They approved the funding and sent it to
Ottawa. Ottawa then did their own assessment, came back and said yeah, we
approve the funding. I think it was December 2018 that the funding was
announced. Now they're ready to go out to tender and they can't get an answer
why it's held up. They can't get an answer.
I say to
the minister, who's over there listening intently to this here, you must give
the council some indication of what the hold up is in this. This just can't
continue for the people in Placentia - St. Mary's. It just can't continue.
For the
Member for Placentia - St. Mary's to say she's not aware of it, and now she's
going to come in on some shining horse like she did before when apparently I was
holding all this up and the Municipal Affairs and Environment staff wouldn't
deal with her, wouldn't deal with the town council and couldn't get any answers.
Now all of a sudden, she's not aware of it. It's time for the minister to come
clean with the people of Placentia - St. Mary's.
This has
been booted around – this information has been on the go for at least since 2015
when it all started about where it's going to be built. I have to say, Mr.
Chair, that I'm starting to get a bit frustrated with the department saying why
don't you just call the town council and say here is the hold up. Two weeks ago,
they were waiting to get it signed off. It's just put on the desk waiting for it
to be signed off. It is still not signed off and no one can find out why. No one
can tell them why.
But
apparently, the Minister of Service NL said I'll check it out now; I'll find out
what's on the go. She's well aware of it. She spoke to the town council on it.
For God sake I say to the minister, these people worked so hard for this. This
is something that they worked for. This is something they fought against the
minister who never did agree with the project.
I'm
going to bring this up, personally. In the complaint, I took the $30 million,
spent it out and couldn't get any information out of it. I didn't deal with the
town council on this here, Bernie Power and this former town council. I didn't
work with the Lions Club on all this, yet the project was approved. It's a bit
ironic.
Mr.
Chair, I'm standing up here again on behalf of the people of Placentia - St.
Mary's because, obviously, the minister won't or can't, or for whatever reason
refuses to get answers for the town council. I'm asking the minister to step in
and give the credit to the elected town council down at Placentia at least a
phone call to say here's the problem. Whatever the problem is let them know
because they don't know. They were told two weeks ago, three weeks ago it's
going to be signed off. It's still not signed off.
Mr.
Chair, I go back to 2017 – and I know the Member for Fortune Bay - Cape La Hune
is over there now who's an elected Member. In March 2017 – and I have to put
this in because the town council is well aware of it – he gave the Minister of
Service NL, the Member for Placentia - St. Mary's, a note saying it's in the
budget in 2018; I think it's March 27.
June
that year I was accused by the minister then of not dealing with the town
council or anybody after getting the Placentia wellness centre going. I was
delaying it, I was stopping it all the time, yet I know the Member for Fortune
Bay - Cape La Hune – even gave her a personal note. The staff at the Premier's
office gave a personal note and here we are now fighting through all that, going
through all that rigmarole of – the rumour was I spent all the money.
The
other rumour was that it wasn't in the pool. The other rumour was that they
couldn't work with the department or any officials. Here it is now all approved,
approved by the department, approved by the town, money borrowed, approved by
the federal government and here it is again, stalled again and we can't get
answers.
The
people of Placentia, the mayor who works so hard, the Lions Club who works so
hard and, Mr. Chair, all the town council, all the residents who raised hundreds
of thousands of dollars – hundreds of thousands of dollars this Lions Club
raised. Mr. Jamie Neville who spearheaded it, raised hundreds of thousands of
dollars and we can't get answers. We have the minister, the Member for the area
of Placentia - St. Mary's saying she's not aware of it. This is being held up,
this project.
I say to
the minister, you have to show respect to the town council. I'm not saying
you're not but I'm just saying they're frustrated. You need to call them and say
– or find out what the issue is with the flood zone, if there's an issue. If
there's an issue with the flood zone, the swimming pool is in the flood zone
which is now going to be attached – the stadium I'm sorry. The stadium is in the
flood zone. They're going to attach the swimming pool to the stadium. Here's the
stadium. They're going to put the wellness centre right here, but the wellness
centre is a problem because it's in the flood zone and so is the swimming pool.
The
hospital is in the same area. The school is in the same flood-zone area. It's
been approved by the Department of Transportation and Works who put it in there.
I say to
the department, the people of Placentia - St. Mary's deserve answers. This has
been kicked around, politically, too much. There are so many allegations – false
allegations I might add, Mr. Chair, about this pool, where they told them they
have no money, it's all spent. The department won't deal with them.
They
even took $750,000 from Dunville to put it towards it, that we make the
guarantee to put the money back. That's how Bernie Power and this town council
were pushing for it, and they did it. But what we need to do now, Mr. Chair, is
give some credence to the town council, respect to the town council and inform
them what the delay is because they're waiting to go to tender. The residents
are waiting to go to tender.
They
were told it was going to be done two to three weeks ago and it's still sitting
on someone's desk. They can't even get an answer, which is not good enough with
all the hassle this town council – I respect the town council. I thank the town
council for the work they did.
CHAIR:
Order, please!
The
Member's time has expired.
The
Chair recognizes the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.
MR. OSBORNE:
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I was
going to start a little earlier by saying I know there were a couple of
amendments yesterday. Members in the Legislature spoke about the fact that they
had no intention of disrupting the Legislature. I think the two independent
Members did and Members from the Third Party.
Mr.
Chair, the reason we brought in the six-month Interim Supply was to ensure that
because it's a minority government and there was talk of a coalition to try and
bring government down, that services would continue, that hospitals would be
able to continue to provide services, schools would be able to continue to
provide services, that would go on without disruption. That was truly the
motivation behind this.
Understanding that Members are not interested in disrupting the Legislature, I
have no problem with a three-month Interim Supply. The amendment put forward by
the Leader of the Third party, I'm okay with that amendment. My concern, Mr.
Chair, was simply to ensure that we didn't disrupt the services to the people of
the province.
Mr.
Chair, if the reality is we're not going to disrupt the services to the people
of the province, I have no issue with a three-month Interim Supply.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. OSBORNE:
Mr. Chair, there is one
concern with the proposed amendment. That's that the amount put forward is not
sufficient to cover three months' expenditure. What the amendment covered was
simply cutting the six-month Interim Supply expenditure amount in half.
Quite
simply, what government spends in the last three months of the fiscal year is
considerably less than what government spends in the first three months of the
fiscal year, because we put out tenders, municipal tenders. We put out
Transportation and Works tenders and so on. In order to get those tenders out on
time, in order to ensure that those tenders are put out in a timely fashion and
work can get started as early as possible, we need a little bit more in the
first three months than we do in the second three months. So simply cutting the
number in half is not quite sufficient, not as easy as that.
Mr.
Chair, I'm going to make a subamendment with the amount that's actually required
to put this forward. We need to ensure that regional health authorities, the
university, for example, College of the North Atlantic, school boards have
sufficient funding to operate as well. Oftentimes, they do purchasing in the
first three months and require a little more in the first three months than they
do in the second or third quarters of the year. As well, in order to get
infrastructure started, or gas-tax money flowing through to municipalities, we
need to ensure that we have sufficient in the first three months as well.
The
subamendment that I'm going to be bringing in, Mr. Chair, will look at a
three-month Interim Supply with $2,631,157,300. This is an additional $329.7
million over what the current amendment proposes. So it's a friendly
subamendment, but its intention is to ensure that we have sufficient funding in
the first quarter.
Mr.
Chair, I'm going to move that amendment now. I know that the
schedule we've
supplied to the Table Clerks as well to be included as part of the Interim
Supply bill. I will ask that all Members of the Legislature get a copy of that
schedule so that we know exactly what we're debating in terms of Interim Supply.
One
thing that I will point out, whether it's a three-month or a four-month or a
six-month Interim Supply, Mr. Chair, we've got to go by the schedule. This is
not money that government can just use at will. It's funding that departments
use, it's prescribed, there's a specific purpose for that funding – the same as
the budget. When we put forward a budget the funding is prescribed. So whether
it's a three month or a six month is not consequential, really. The only thing
that we wanted to ensure with the six month is that services continued. If
there's no risk that there will be a disruption of services, I have no issue
with a three-month supply.
Mr.
Chair, I move the amendment moved by the Leader of the Third Party be amended by
striking out the amount “$2,301,429,950” and substituting instead the amount of
“$2,631,157,300.”
CHAIR:
A seconder?
MR. OSBORNE:
This is seconded by the
Government House Leader.
CHAIR:
We're going to take a
temporary recess to review the amendment.
Recess
CHAIR:
Order, please!
We have
reviewed the subamendment and found that it is in order.
The
Chair recognizes the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.
MR. OSBORNE:
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'm not
sure when Members want to vote on the subamendment. I'm ready to vote on it now,
if Members want. I'm pleased with the fact that this has been in order, Mr.
Chair, and open to debate on the subamendment if Members so wish. I know we've
asked for copies of the new Schedule, based on the subamendment, to be
distributed to all Members.
Should
the subamendment be voted on and, subsequently, the amendment be voted on, this
new clause will have to become part of the Interim Supply, essentially replacing
the old
Schedule and allowing –
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Oh, oh!
CHAIR:
Order, please!
Thank
you.
MR. OSBORNE:
Thank you, I say to my hon.
critic.
Mr.
Chair, if the amendment is voted on – or the subamendment and passed, the
amendment is voted on and passed, the new
Schedule which is being distributed to
all Members of the Legislature will then become the
Schedule that becomes voted
on and replaced in Interim Supply.
All
Members will get a copy of the new
Schedule this afternoon, outlining the
amounts for the first quarter, or three months, in Interim Supply for each of
the departments to operate under, Mr. Chair. This will, as I've said, allow for
tenders to be called, whether it's for roadwork or municipal tenders or gas tax
funding to be provided to municipalities and so on, so the important work can
continue for three months.
Hopefully, as I've said, there's no disruption in the Legislature; no
disruption, then, to government services. We fully intend to see a budget
brought in here. It's my hope that Members will vote for the budget, pass the
budget and the work of our public service can continue on uninterrupted.
Thank
you, Mr. Chair.
CHAIR:
The Chair recognizes the
Member for Bonavista.
MR. PARDY:
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
It's a
pleasure to stand and speak on behalf of the residents of the District of
Bonavista. I know I've stated before that there are quite a number of people who
watch the House of Assembly proceedings. Mita Butler, a senior from Bonavista;
Josh Clarke; Mr. Keith Rickman, just to name several. The audience is wide.
Sometimes we don't realize that when we speak, but we certainly have a lot of
people that are tuned in to the House of Assembly. I hope I get a chance now to
represent them well in the 10 minutes that I have to speak.
I want
to raise this particular name: Erik Weihenmayer. I bet nobody knows who Erik
Weihenmayer is, and he does not reside in the District of Bonavista. He scaled
Mount Everest in 2001; 29,000 feet he scaled, and you would say: Well, what's
notable about that? Because many others did. In 2002, he did the Seven Summits,
including Everest, the other six notable summits, the highest elevations in the
– and he did those in 2002.
One
would say, why do I bring up Erik Weihenmayer? Because Erik Weihenmayer was
blind. Now all of a sudden those achievements, while they would have been
notable with full vision, they are certainly notable without vision.
He is
now the world's most sought-after public speaker, and he started a non-profit
organization called No Barriers. Here is what the theme of his organization is:
What's within you is stronger than what's in your way. Just to repeat that, when
we look at the complexities that we face in the Province of Newfoundland and
Labrador over our history and currently what we're talking about in the House of
Assembly: What's within you is stronger than what's in your way.
Just one
little anecdote before I touchdown on what I want to speak about relative to the
District of Bonavista, was in August of last year I attended St. John's Rotary
where I listened to Ed Hollett, who is the blogger for
The Sir Robert Bond Papers . He was
presenting. Before he presented on Muskrat Falls, he had threw the question out:
What is relevant about 1969? I knew what was relevant about 1969, but I'm
certainly glad I didn't speak up at that time – nobody did. I sat there, what I
immediately thought about was Woodstock. But that was not what he was looking
for.
What he
was looking for was the signing of the Upper Churchill and when they signed the
Upper Churchill. We know it returns to us, the percentage we own in '41. The
gist of those two little anecdotes is hope. We've heard a lot about hope but we
haven't heard a whole lot in the electorate and with the residents in the
Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. I'd just like to emphasize on the word
hope.
Before I
touch down on several of the areas – I know I only have 10 minutes – I know
yesterday the Member for Humber - Bay of Islands had some words after the Member
for Cape St. Francis spoke. He had a few words about back in time. It led me to
go back to the Budget Speech of 2016 of which the Finance Minister read. I just
want to share 10 short excerpts from that speech – and keep in mind, no
commentary on any of the 10 excerpts, but I think they'll probably speak for
themselves knowing what we are talking and discussing today versus what you did
in 2016, which was the first full year of the current government.
Ten
short excerpts. Mr. Chair, it was stated: “… today, in our government's first
budget, we are laying out a fiscal plan that allows our province to regain
control of government finances.”
“This
year, we are forecasting the price of oil at $40 U.S.”
“By
planning six deficits in the past 12 years, while unpredictable oil royalties
grew, the former administration created a culture of spending in the absence of
good fiscal planning.”
I said I
wasn't going to interject any commentary. I was in the education system as the
administrator in a particular school when the previous government who was
accused at spending loosely brought our per pupil allocation from $37 to $120.
We couldn't have computers in the special-needs classrooms. SMART Boards came to
our classrooms. We had the module components that were introduced to our school
system, all at that time when we referenced loose spending, but the only thing
being we were great beneficiaries in the education system at that time because
we had such a big deficit. I think we'll all agree that the money was spent to
address the deficit.
Continuing on with the anecdotes or the references, the minister states: “It is
impossible for us to be satisfied that we will spend more on debt expenses than
we do on educating our children.” The premier said that in 2019, which is
correct. It was also stated in 2016.
“Work at
the Muskrat Falls powerhouse is significantly behind schedule. Faced with these
schedule delays and expected cost increases on the project – a concern to all of
us – government is doing and will continue to do everything possible to help get
this project back on track.”
Next
reference –
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Oh, oh!
CHAIR:
Order, please!
MR. PARDY:
Just a reference from
Hansard – and I'm halfway through them –“With this in mind we are
planning, and holding ourselves accountable to return to a surplus position in
seven years.”
It was
stated to leave politics out of the decision-making process – noble and good.
Unfortunately it said, increasing class sizes for Grades 4 to 12 will save $8.8
million annually, which was a saving but I know that we hear a lot of references
to the class size and the issue that we have in the school system.
Eight:
“Our government promised the people of Newfoundland and Labrador better
management and real leadership.”
“Our
government will establish a Diversified Wealth Fund once we have moved back into
surplus. We will put the necessary framework in place by bringing forward
legislation during our mandate. The legislation will be designed to prevent any
future governments from leaving our province in the fiscal situation we find
ourselves in today.”
Finally,
the last one: “We will do what Newfoundlanders and Labradorians are expecting us
to do: We will eliminate government waste; we will stop excess spending; we will
be more efficient; and, we will expect that public money is treated responsibly.
And we will act when we suspect it is not.”
Anyway,
my full intention was to be able to look at these components and look at what I
would think in the management and efficiencies and bring some forth. I'd like to
start with health. One thing which I think should be foundational for us as a
government would be that we make sure we look after those that are the most
vulnerable in our care. I think our efforts are noble.
The only
thing I would reference would be the Golden Heights Manor in Bonavista was
staffed at 3.8 hours per resident. Because they had some residents who were no
longer in the facility, they cut it back to 3.4. The medical needs in covering
at the long-term health care facility are not in question. The thing that is in
question would be the PCAs, the personal hygiene care and looking after the
attendants to be able to feed residents who may be unable to feed themselves.
The
medical needs in the RNs are covered, are good and there are no complaints with
that. The LPNs, there appear to be no problem. It seems to be with the PCAs –
and I know that the hon. Member for Mount Pearl - Southlands, in his petition
several times mentioned in these long-term care homes.
I know
my time is up, Mr. Chair.
Thank
you.
CHAIR:
The Chair recognizes the
Minister of Transportation and Works.
MR. CROCKER:
Thank you very much, Mr.
Chair.
It's
great to have the opportunity for the first time in Supply to have an
opportunity to have a few words. I'm sure I'll have quite a few words in the
days to come as we continue to debate the subamendment, the amendment and
Interim Supply itself.
But, Mr.
Chair, I couldn't help myself from getting up right now after hearing the
remarks of the Member opposite on this day that we've been presented with a
report that shows a misguided project. He references back to 2016.
Mr.
Chair, I'm going to read some quotes into the record, and these are quotes that
unfortunately we'll be having to remind people of the situation that 2015-2016
brought us to. I've often heard Members opposite say, oh, well, you've been
there five years now – you've been there five years now. But the report has some
very interesting comments in it, and very interesting quotes, and we've just
started to read through it.
“Rather,
it is the Province's current financial position and the loss of opportunities,
both of which have been caused by the need to pay for Muskrat Falls …. That is
what has caused residents of this province to become concerned about the
future.”
The
concern for the future, Mr. Chair, is the misguided project that, today, we had
to release an 1,100-page document explaining what went wrong here – what went
wrong in the years leading up to the sanctioning of this project. It says quite
clearly in the report, number 10 in Volume 1, page 47: “Considering the extent
of construction completed and the contractual and other obligations in place at
the time, the Project had clearly reached the point of no return when the Ball
government was elected (late 2015). The real point of no return was at Financial
Close of the FLG in November 2013.”
Mr.
Chair, that says a lot. That says a lot about what this government found in
2015-2016. I take no pleasure today in reading a report that will saddle my
children and my grandchildren for decades and decades to come. But to hear a
Member stand up over there today and lay at our government's feet, talk about a
budget in 2016. We just paid tens of millions of dollars for an inquiry to tell
us why we got to where we were in 2015-2016.
To hear
that, to hear someone stand up and talk about a culture of spending, loose
spending. Loose spending and a culture of spending don't even start to explain
where we are today because of this misguided project. This project is so
misguided. Twelve billion dollars – 30 per cent of this province's debt today is
because of this project and is because there wasn't proper oversight by the
government of the day to make sure this never happened – just make sure it never
happened.
Before
project sanctioning it would've been very easy – I'm going to read some quotes.
“Before Project sanction, it would have been very easy for Nalcor” – the
previous administration – “and GHL to have educated themselves on the history of
cost overruns and
schedule delays for megaprojects and their” – and I'll repeat
this – “and their failure to do so is indefensible.” It's indefensible.
Surprisingly, the previous government “failed to conduct a thorough assessment
or review of the potential impact of undertaking a megaproject such as the
Muskrat Falls Project, and of its potential cost overruns, on the future
financial position of the Province.” – on the future financial position of the
province.
The
reason we find ourselves in the financial position we find ourselves in today is
because we're saddled with a project that every single Newfoundlander and
Labradorian, taxpayer and ratepayer will have to pay for generations and
generations to come.
It's
astounding when we hear somebody referencing back to a budget that we brought
in, in 2016. Is anybody on this side of the House proud of having to bring in a
budget in 2016 that we had to bring in? There were choices. There were mistakes
in that budget, and there's nobody in this province, me included, would ever try
and say there weren't. But you have to remember, we were coming in and finding a
situation that there was no way to deal with what we had been left with without
drastic measures.
“There
is also no doubt that GNL politicians and officials must be faulted for failing
to provide a reasonable level of oversight of Nalcor, for placing an unjustified
amount of trust and blind faith in that corporation and for the naivety that
they demonstrated in accepting, without a comprehensive independent review,
Nalcor's DG3 cost estimate and schedule” and risks.
It was
the previous administration that took that Public Utilities Board and removed
it; an independent oversight body that is there to protect Newfoundlanders and
Labradorians from these types of mistakes. They took that body out of that
decision.
They
also brought in a bill, Bill 29, to hide behind. They brought in a bill, a bill
that today and days later – give credit where credit is due. In late 2015, they
repealed Bill 29, but, unfortunately, the damage of Bill 29 was done.
Bill 29
accomplished what it was set out to do. Bill 29, I feel, was set out to hoodwink
the people of this province so the questions wouldn't be asked. The Public
Utilities Board was removed from the process so the questions wouldn't be asked,
and it was our government that brought the Public Utilities Board back in to get
us to where we are now.
This
report also goes on to say – this inquiry also goes on to say that it was this
government, under our Premier's leadership, that actually brought stability to
the project in 2016-2017. We put the project back on a solid footing for the
project that it was.
Mr.
Chair, I'm going to take my place, but I think in the days to come every single
one of us in this House need to reflect – we all seriously need to reflect that
a lot the reason of why we are where we are today is that 30 per cent of our
provincial debt is this.
We talk
about the things we'd all like to see. I can speak for all 40 Members of this
House, I do believe, when I talk about what we all want to see. We all want to
see a future for our children. We all want to see safe and comfortable
communities. We want to make sure our seniors, those that have given so much,
are comfortable. Mr. Chair, when a province is put in a situation where $1
billion a year goes into interest payments – a lot of it courtesy of Muskrat
Falls – there are things we can't provide because of the amount of debt that
this project has given us.
I would
encourage the people of Newfoundland and Labrador over the coming days to take
some time and read the Muskrat Falls report. I'll give a little hint, read
Volume 1 and Volume 4. If your time is limited, read Volume 1 and read Volume 4.
They are two of the smaller volumes and they will give you an opportunity to see
where this misguided project has left the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.
Thank
you, Mr. Chair.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
CHAIR:
The Chair recognizes the
Member for Harbour Main.
MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:
Thank you, Mr.
Chair.
There
are many issues that I want to focus on today, but I think the first question
that was raised by the Member for Carbonear - Trinity - Bay de Verde was, why
are we here today? Of course the Member will engage in the blame game, which is
typical. We need to be, I would submit, more objective in answering that
question.
I first
will draw attention to the Report to the
House of Assembly: On the Audit of the Financial Statements of the Province of
Newfoundland and Labrador by the Auditor General. I would say that it is
interesting to note that the Auditor General does acknowledge and point out that
there is also a structural deficit we have to deal with. Structural deficit is a
systemic – it's a structural issue that has occurred.
Mr.
Chair, I would submit to you that when the opposite Member tries to get into the
blame game with respect to the previous administration, he needs to be fair and
objective in his analysis.
When we
look at, for example, one of the greatest minds that ever lived, Albert
Einstein, who said we have to: “Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for
tomorrow.” We don't deny that we learned from our mistakes, but it's important
to note that Albert Einstein said: “The important thing is not to stop
questioning.” As an Official Opposition, we intend to do that of our government.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:
One of the biggest
questions, Mr. Chair, is: what has happened in the past five years? We need to
look at that. We need to acknowledge some of the scholars that have weighed in
on this issue.
I was
proud to attend a fiscal symposium in February, at which time there were many
political and economic thinkers who weighed in on the situation of our fiscal
crisis. They focused on things like, what are the reasonable solutions? We need
to have respectful conversations about the solutions, not the negative blame
game that we've been seeing.
These
experts and these political thinkers and these academics from our university,
economists and political scientists say that we need to get away from the
negative blaming. Doctor Locke himself referenced that negative blaming and the
tone of most discussions, the finger pointing. He said we're not going to solve
the problems of the province's considerable debt load by engaging in this
negative blaming.
Mr.
Chair, as was recognized in this symposium, we need to focus on collective
progress, and that's what the people of the Province of Newfoundland and
Labrador expect from us. We have to take important steps towards developing a
positive vision for our beloved Newfoundland and Labrador and figuring out the
actions needed to make that vision a reality. We need to have more engaged
scholarships like this. We need to have discussions and investigations and – as
has been acknowledged by many of our academics at the university –we need to
make decisions on evidence. Evidence based decision-making is key.
One of
the professors, Prof. Dr. Russell Williams from the political science
department, said we need to clean sheet it. I thought that was profound. He
said: We need to look at policies in other jurisdictions. We need to have more
innovation. We need to look at things like that in order to move forward.
There's
no more doom and gloom. Let's get past that. Negativity has to stop. Our youth
and all of us have heard enough of this rhetoric and these politics. We have to
look at the problems. Dr. Russell Williams had said: “The shattering chaos of
his own government is the reason we don't have a provincial budget” that's
working. “Things are falling apart while these guys play games.”
We heard
from Prof. Williams who said: “I know so many excellent public servants in this
province. If there is one thing that drives them to depression it is the extent
to which 'evidence' is not part of how we do things.”
Prof.
Tomblin said: Newfoundland and Labrador “really requires evidence-informed
decision making and less politics.” We have to do better. “That has not been
happening,” Dr. Tomblin said, “whether energy-environmental restructuring,
health care, municipal affairs, even intergovernmental relations.” We need to
have more evidence-based, informed decision-making in our policies and less
politics.
Mr.
Chair, I would submit to you that we first of all have to look at that important
approach. When we go forward, we have to recognize we're a province; we're so
rich in opportunities to build on. We should be seizing these opportunities,
like in ocean technology. We should be seizing opportunities in aviation. We're
just capable of so much more. We should be one of the leaders in population
growth and job growth, yet when we look, we see that the out-migration is a very
serious issue for us.
For
example, the outlook really appears bleak. Under a medium-growth scenario, the
province's population will ebb to 460,000 people by 2043, a decline of 65,000
people –
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Oh, oh!
CHAIR:
Order, please!
MS. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER:
– 12.4 per cent from 2018, according to StatsCan projection published in the
fall. There is no scenario in which the province doesn't lose tens of thousands
of residents.
Again,
these are issues that are serious, but we need to embrace these problems that we
have in a spirit of positive, not negative, not blaming. Let's try to focus on
moving forward.
When I
look at, for example, Mr. Chair, my district, there are many issues that we see
there that have people very concerned. Whether we look at the family doctor
shortage, one of the biggest issues facing people of my District of Harbour
Main, I hear constantly from concerned constituents about the fact they don't
have a family doctor. I hear that they're fearful of what they're going to do.
We need to urge the government to implement the recommendations set out by the
Newfoundland and Labrador Medical Association's forecast and plan.
People
are fearful at this time in my district about family doctor shortages, but
they're also fearful about the roads. I'm inundated with calls, emails, texts,
office visits, people dropping in – pleas from people, individual residents and
local municipal leaders and groups. They're expressing grave concerns and
legitimate fears about the deplorable condition of the roads in the District of
Harbour Main.
There
are concerns about these conditions. They say they're badly in need of repair
and repaving. It's not only in my district, other districts as well. The
potholes, the ruts, the limited shoulders, these are making the roads also
dangerous to drive on. It's serious for vehicles that travel every day. People
are experiencing damage to their vehicles. I've heard so many individuals
calling, frustrated and angry. They're encouraging damage to their tires, to the
rims because the patched up work that's done on the roads is just not adequate.
These are legitimate concerns about the roads and people are concerned.
I had a
councillor from South River contact me recently. They're swerving to avoid
potholes. They're concerned that there are going to be dangerous collisions. Our
office, almost daily, are contacting highway depots in our district to address
these problems. We have like a direct line to the highway depots to try to get
them out to address these, or at least give notice to the people of the
district. Those are some of the issues.
Thank
you very much, Mr. Chair.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
CHAIR:
The Chair recognizes the
Member for St. John's Centre.
MR. J. DINN:
Mr. Chair, I'm going to start
by just referencing the Parliamentary Guide, in particular the part of the
Parliamentary Guide that refers to Interim Supply which, according to this
guide, says: “The Interim Supply Bill authorizes an advance of approximately
one-quarter of the amount of funding contained in the main estimates. This
funding permits Government to cover the needs of the public service from the end
of the fiscal year until the end of June, or until the Main Supply Bill is
passed.”
I can't
help but wonder that whether we would even have to have a debate over amendments
and subamendments if that's what we were presented with to begin with, because
that's what started this.
I think
in many ways – I want to draw your attention as well to the interruption we
faced here in the House yesterday. I want to link these two. We got a pretty
good telling off by a member of the public who was very frustrated, very angry,
hurt, you name it – afraid, yes. We probably deserved it in many ways, but I
think that person represents an awful lot of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians
who are looking to guidance and to some answers here.
probably gives us the seriousness of what we're about, whether it's an Interim
Supply bill or coming up with a budget. Because really I don't know if it
matters much – I don't know if we should be in the position where there should
be some sort of a quid pro quo around Interim Supply. Well, we'll bring it in a
shorter one, as has been suggested. We'd come up with a regular Interim Supply
if one side of the House promises not to bring down government or call an
election, or cause an election to be called.
I think
it's really very much about a matter of confidence and about working together
and to finding some solutions. Working together doesn't mean we're not going to
argue and debate and disagree, but there's got to be that sense of confidence
there in each other that we're working together to find some solutions from the
best of our abilities as well. That should be the only quid pro quo.
We need
to commit to basically coming up with a budget that is reasonable and that meets
the needs of the people of this province. If anything else, I've sat in this
House now since I was elected and listened to the number of petitions on one
hand that come forward that basically ask for an increase in spending and then
commentary that we need to control spending. That's the balance.
We have
the Muskrat Falls report out, and many ways we've sat here and listened to this,
and it's a bit reminiscent of the arsonist and the firefighter blaming each
other for why the house burned down. The house is burnt down, where do we go
from here?
In many
ways maybe there's enough blame to go around for all – and not just within this
House, but to the public as well. Whatever it was, misguided or not, regardless
of what side of the House we're on, we're going to share in this. But the bigger
question is, where do we move from here?
So we
have that on our plates, we have an Interim Supply. We'll have a budget to deal
with, but I can tell you there are other needs out there. I look at education,
where I came from, and my colleague in the Official Opposition tweaked a memory
of SMART Boards. I think, roughly, a SMART Board is about $5,000 to replace.
Roughly, maybe a bit more.
There's
a real push to have schools brought into the 21st century learning. So you can
imagine a school that might have 20 or 30 classrooms with 20 or 30 SMART Boards,
what that means to replace that technology every, what, five to 10 years at the
most? Five, if you're lucky.
went to purchasing of TeamBoards, which was a cheaper alternative to SMART
Boards. You could get two TeamBoards for the price of one SMART Board. The
trouble was they didn't work that well and became glorified TV screens.
Now, my
late brother used to have a saying that poor people like us can't afford to buy
cheap. So you buy the best possible equipment and best possible gear, because it
will last you longer. You can buy gear that will last 10 years, or you can buy
five pieces of cheap gear over the 10 years – whatever.
I think
in many ways what we've been looking at is how do we buy smart? How do we invest
in people? Maybe we have to stop looking in terms of expenditure as investing.
We talk about investing in oil. We talk about investing in aquaculture – and, by
the way, if we want to talk about misguided, in many ways we're about to enter
into the open-sea aquaculture, that's another misguided project if it ends up
destroying our environment.
With
education, we talk about children who – you can bring all the education action
plans in place that you want, but if you're not addressing poverty in the school
systems, if you're not talking about dealing with children who are suffering
emotional trauma, anxiety, suicidal thoughts – talk to any school counsellor and
you'll find out that the anxiety that we would think is reserved for teenage
years, the teenage angst, is actually creeping into the primary and elementary
grades. So it starts there. Having sufficient counsellors then is something that
is going to be essential, hopefully, to not only turning these children into
productive adults, but also a saving to our system.
Health
care; if I wanted to have a budget, I think I'd have something with universal
dental care for all people, whether they can afford it or not. Why? Poor dental
care is probably going to affect your self-esteem, your ability to go out and
get a job, or the decision of an employer whether they are going to hire you or
not, or even your own physical health. I'm thinking those are just some of the
issues when we look at priorities in spending.
Now last
year, I referenced that going through the budget process, getting elected was a
bit like riding a bicycle except the bicycle is on fire, I'm on fire, everything
is on fire. It was a learning experience, but I do remember the whole notion of
zero-based budgeting and about finding savings and efficiencies. There are many
ways we can find savings and efficiencies without cutting the core investments
to the people of this province.
anything else, snowmageddon – call it what you will – identified certain gaps in
the needs of the people facing us, the vulnerable and we have to address them.
There's no two ways about it.
I will
say this, with regard to – I'll give you an example of one gentleman in my
district. He lives frugally, he's on Income Support and he's on a budget plan
for electricity. Somehow the electricity rates have gone up, and if you think
that doesn't bother people, it does. It scares the hell out of them.
This
gentleman is doing his best to survive on a modest income. He has the rooms
walled off with curtains to keep the heat confined, very clean, but he's down at
one point to $9 a week for food. That's the gentleman, and many like him, who
we're trying to help. He has a choice of starving or starving to death slowly.
Before he had to pay back the electricity bill because it got out of hand. He
thought he was on a budget plan; he had $40 a week for food.
I count
myself incredibly blessed. When I look at the family growing up, loving parents,
parents who were supportive, a father who had steady work and the values that
they instilled in us, but for a lot of people out there right now it's not a
matter of choice. It's not even the matter that they've chosen this. They have
mental health issues; they're dealing with other issues.
When
we're talking about this budget, this Interim Supply bill, I think we need to
start considering people like the gentleman who lambasted us for a better part
of 10 minutes or more and the other people in our districts.
CHAIR:
Order, please!
The
Member's time has expired.
The
Chair recognizes the Minister of Children, Seniors and Social Development.
MS. DEMPSTER:
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Always
when I get up I say it's a pleasure to be on my feet today and to speak as the
Member that represents the beautiful District of Cartwright - L'Anse au Clair.
Mr. Chair, I'm going to say today it turns my stomach to get up for the next 10
minutes and talk about what I'm going to talk about. It turns my stomach what
I'm going to spend constituency week reading.
When we
look around this Legislature, there are many people weighing in on this today,
Mr. Chair, that were not here – they were not here. I was here in 2013; I was on
the other side. Hansard will show, I,
along with my teammates, were on our feet many, many times saying this isn't
right. You did not do due diligence – that's what we said repeatedly.
The UARB
in Nova Scotia was given the luxury to review the project; yet, Mr. Chair, we
see that the PUB – our own PUB – was not given the benefit of looking. I have
lived this project, I have eaten and breathed this project for the last six or
seven years. I've seen the impact. I've seen the impact in Goose Bay and my
colleague's district up in Lake Melville where they said there would be minimal
impacts. I've seen the impacts.
colleague on the other side just talked about poverty reduction and how
important it is that we have money to go in schools, how important it is that we
have money to address the social issues. We get questions around shelters; we
get questions around seniors, around their dental care.
I was
asked just the other day, why don't we have a poverty reduction strategy. Mr.
Chair, the previous administration in the 2007 budget, the first budget after
their Poverty Reduction Strategy, there was $91 million invested. I want to say
today as a government, our investment in Poverty Reduction Initiatives is $286
million.
I also
want to say to the people of the province, the largest anti-poverty reduction
initiative to hit this province is Muskrat Falls. Based on the current levels of
spending, we see 40 years of poverty reduction initiatives flushed down the
Churchill River. I think most people, Mr. Chair, in this House look at me and
they say I'm pretty fair, I'm pretty reasonable, I don't care what party you
come from; but when you talk about Muskrat Falls, it puts my blood pressure
right through the roof. My colleagues will tell you, too, because I've seen the
impacts of nobody listening.
They
brought in Bill 29. It got national media attention: Don't go down the road.
It's a very draconian piece of legislation. You're covering things up. Mr.
Chair, we led the longest filibuster in the history of this province, 84 hours.
What did the PC government of the day do? They invoked closure, shut down
democracy, brought in Bill 29 and covered everything up. What happened after
that? There was another Committee put in place that cost the taxpayers over a
million dollars and then they changed it, Mr. Chair.
I do get
really upset because every day – I'm in a large social department – I see the
needs of this province. When we had a project that was sold to the people of
this province, a bill of goods for $6.6 billion and now we're up to $12.7
billion, we're going to saddle the people of this province for 50 years to come.
I hear
Members opposite saying: Stop the blame game. You're there; you've had five
years to govern. What have you done? You've increased fees. What do you do when
you're passed the keys and you think you have a billion-dollar deficit and it's
$2.4 billion? We were in very, very shaky territory, Mr. Chair.
My first
interview after I went into Cabinet, staff were briefing me: You're going down
to NTV; you're going to sit in studio; he's going to ask you this and this and
this about the department. Do you know what happened, Mr. Chair? They didn't
want to know anything about the department I was in. They said: You spoke out so
much against Muskrat Falls, why didn't your government stop it when you formed
government?
So I
took the time, Mr. Chair, to tell the people of this province, there was nothing
that I wanted more. My colleague, Randy Edmunds, who was here; Lake Melville,
those of us who the project was in our backyard, we wanted nothing more than to
stop it.
The
Minister of Natural Resources will know, the very first briefings we had as a
government was on this project. What did we find out? If there's one thing they
did right, they locked us in. The legalities, we couldn't get out. We had a
federal loan guarantee and if we defaulted on that loan, any benefits that
eventually came from the project were going to accrue to the Government of
Canada.
We had a
line built – Emera – over to Nova Scotia in exchange for power. We were locked
into that. We had a subsea cable over $1 billion going across the Strait of
Belle Isle, we were locked into that. We had five major pieces around the world
being built, Mr. Chair, customized for the lower generating station. We were
locked into that.
Today, I
feel somewhat vindicated that this report says we passed the point of no return
in November 2013. So that point of no return was passed before we formed
government.
So it's
not about the blame game. It's about a government of the day that had $20
billion in oil royalties and spent like drunken sailors, because my –
AN HON. MEMBER:
Twenty-four.
MS. DEMPSTER:
Twenty-four billion dollars in oil royalties, Mr. Chair.
The only
reason I stepped up, the only reason that I got involved is I represent a
portion of Labrador where we were weighed in the balance and found wanting again
and again and again. We had gravel roads. We had no form of communication. All
our communities, we didn't have water and sewer. We were not benefitting in this
province and I got involved.
Then to
see this fifth largest megaproject in the world being built in our backyard.
We're only 526,000 people. We could not afford it. Every weekend I went back to
my district in those early years in '13 and '14, and I would see these large
towers going across the land. I would see the land destroyed. No consultation
with Indigenous people, complete upheaval in Labrador, but they ploughed
through. Corporate arrogance, Mr. Chair, and the project went on.
Here we
are today, I really take exception when Members say it's the blame game. Mr.
Chair, it's about informing people of why we are where we are today. It's about
educating the people on why we don't have the money today to do the things we
want to do.
Do you
think any of us in this government, Mr. Chair –
MR. BYRNE:
A point of order, Mr. Chair.
CHAIR:
Point of order.
MR. BYRNE:
Mr. Chair, I cannot hear the hon. Member speaking. There is a considerable
amount of noise coming from the aisles opposite.
CHAIR:
There is no point of order,
but we ask Members to keep –
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Oh, oh!
CHAIR:
Order, please!
MS. DEMPSTER:
It's really appalling, Mr. Chair, that we have a report today and the Opposition
are laughing and joking about it. It is really, really appalling.
What I'm
doing is saying none of us on this side took pleasure in bringing in budget '16,
going home to our districts and being hammered. This is the reality. This is the
project. This is the boondoggle, Mr. Chair. This is the problem.
The
Leader of the Opposition, quoting from him in a VOCM
article on February 19, he
said: Changing the premier is merely changing the lipstick on the pig. It's
still the same pig. So I say based on this, Mr. Chair, to the people of the
province, what does that mean about this administration that sanctioned Muskrat
Falls? Does that mean we're merely changing lipstick on the pig? Some of those
Members who were not here, based on what their current leader would have said
today.
He also
said: The new leader will have to accept the baggage of previous leaders. So I
would ask the hon. Opposition today, are you accepting the baggage of Muskrat
Falls and the damage that it has done?
We talk
about food security; food security is complicated when you go to explain it, but
what are the measurements? The marginal measurement of food security is the
worry, people worrying about food.
I can
tell you, Mr. Chair, that in this province, and I hear from them every week –
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Oh, oh!
CHAIR:
Order, please!
MS. DEMPSTER:
I ask the Member for
Conception Bay, would you just respect me enough to let me speak? Would you
respect me enough to let me speak on this project? This is a serious issue we
are dealing with in our province and you've already taken a couple of minutes of
my time.
So, Mr.
Chair –
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Oh, oh!
CHAIR:
Order, please!
MS. DEMPSTER:
The Member for Conception Bay
East - Bell Island thinks it's theatrics. I'll tell you, it's not th