VOL. 2 PRELIMINARY UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PERIOD: 3:00 P.M. - 6:00 P.M. TUESDAY, MAY 3, 1983. NO. 32

May 3, 1983 Tape No. 1658 The House met at 3:00 P.M. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Order, please! MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS PREMIER PECKFORD : MR. SPEAKER: PREMIER PECKFORD : Mr. Speaker. The han. the Premier. Mr. Speaker, some time JV- 1 ago I made a statement to the media to the effect that I hoped to see an upturn or an improvement in the performance of some of our resource based industries. The Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) questioned my statement here in the House and wanted to know on what basis I could make such a statement or where I got the information. Mr.

Speaker, in pursuance of the statement I made last week, I am now pleased to inform the House that I have received some good news with respect to the operation of Wabush Mines. Wabush Mines has forecast a producti.on of 3. 5 million tone of ore for 198 3. That level of production would have necessitated a shut down of ten . and a half weeks. I am pleased to say that the Company now expects to produce 4.1 million tons of ore.

This increase in production now means ~hat instead of being shut down for ten and a half weeks the Company will have a shut down of six and a half weeks, giving four more weeks work to the employees of Wabush Mines Limited. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Leader of the Opposition. 3579

May 3, 1983 Tape No. 1658 JV - 2 MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the Premier is wrong as usual, What I questioned the Premier on yesterday in this House was the fishery, not the mining industry 1 because the Provincial Government have some control over the fishing industry but they have no control over the mining industry. The decisions are made in board rooms outside of this Province and it depends on the steel industry both in the United States and on the Mainland of Canada. Because their is an upturn in the steel industry, Mr.

Speaker, the hon. gentleman can try to take credit for it if he wants to, but it was the fishing industry that I questioned the hon. gentleman on yesterday. We are glad to hear that there will be less downtime,but the Premier did not make it clear whether or not the workers who were laid off in the Wabush Mines will be re-employed. Perhaps the hon. gentleman ,when he gets an opportunity at another time in the House, can tell us whether or not any of the workers who have been laid off at the Wabush Mining Company will be hired back on. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAKER (Ru ssell ): The hon. the Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, without doubt, all hon. members are pleased that agreement has been reached between the Federation of School Boards, Treasury Board on behalf of Government and the Newfoundland Teachers' Association regarding a new collective bargaining agreement for the period September 1, 1982 to August 31, 1984. The dispute over the agreement was settled utilizing the mediation services in the aepartrnent of my hon. colleague, the Minister of Labour and Manpower (Mr. Dinn), subsequent to the 3550

May 3, 1983 Tape No. 1659 SD - 1 DR. COLLINS: strike action initiated by the NTA Executive Committee on April 12th, and full teaching and other contractual obligations were resumed this morning by all teachers in the school system,except where unavoidable practical difficulties interferred. I would like publicly to . commend all those officials in the public service who worked so diligently and so patiently in order to bring about this very satisfactory result.

I would also like to salute Reverend Leonard Whitten,President of the Federation of School Boards, for the steadfast co-operation with government shown by the federation throughout this trying period. Because of the wide-spread public interest in the dispute, I·have attached to this statement, which I intend to table, details of the major items finally agreed upon. Let me now make a more general comment on government's view of the settlement. Government entered upon new discussions last August with several main objectives in mind.

Firstly, this government believes in the collective bargaining system, in the process of compromise, and we were determined to ensure that the rights of unions in the public sector, including the NTA 1 were upheld during the negotiating process. Han. members are aware that government was under intense pressure to forgo the collective bargaining process during the latter stages of the dispute and use the power of tills hon. House to terminate it by legislating teachers back to work.

Fortunately, it was not necessary to follow that course, and government achieved its objective of safeguarding the collective bargaining method of settling employer/employee disputes in the public service which is a victory for all concerned. 3581

May 3, 1983 Tape No. 1659 SD - 2 DR. COLLINS: Secondly, government set out to negotiate acceptance of our wage restraint policy in all its aspects. Although it had already been accepted by some 10,000 public servants, this is one of the most contentious items with the NTA, which finally gave full acceptance just a week or so ago. Thirdly, government made it clear at the outset that we wanted changes in the payment mechanism for substitute teachers, which was at considerable variance with arrangements in all other provinces and which was unduly generous regarding the work required.

Government put forth, at various times, several detinitive proposals for change, all of which were met with flat rejection by the NTA. The final settlement of the dispute will see the substitute teacher payment method referred to a special task force for study and recommendation, and this fully meets government's basic objective of seeing some definite move made to remedy a clearly unreasonable situation.

Fourthly, in close co-operation with the federation, government wished to ensure that contract changes did not.result in interference with the obligations placed on school boards to manage the system with effectiveness and efficiency, nor make the operation of the school system more costly than our resources could handle. The NTA proposed far-reaching changes of this nature, having potential undestrable implications of large measure. Government 3582

May 3, 1983 Tape No. 1660 NM - l DR. COLLINS: is pleased that it was finally agreed to refer this whole matter also to the special Task Force for indepth study,and its recommendations will be reviewed before any proposals for significant changes in the overall management of the school system will again be entertained. In the meantime, some smaller adjustments were agreed, such as ensuring an uninterrupted lunch period for all teachers, with prolongation of school hours in order to accommodate this, if necessary. I would emphasize that the vast majority of teachers have always had an uninterrupted lunch period made available to them by individual school' bo.ards. In

summary, therefore, the settlement of the dispute with the NTA has resulted in government andthe schol boards achieving their objectives in a fully satisfactory degree, and I understand the NTA has expressed similar satisfaction. · It is government's hope, therefore, that, in the spirit of the settlement, teachers and their school boards can now co-operate fully during the term of the agreement with the objective of providing the best possible educational process for the pupils in the schools of this Province. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear~ MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. member for Terra Nova. MR. LUSH: Mr.

Spe .aker, all of us welcome the fact that the educational system now is in full gear, that the students are back in their schools, that the teachers are back in their schools, and that is the thing that should make us all happy. As for the rest of the statement by the minister, in trying to suggest that they were responsible for saving the method of collective bargai~ing in this Province, I will have a little ItDre to say on that as I ItDve along. But first of all I think we should all be very proud of the work done by the 3583

May 3, 1983 MR. LUSH: Mr. Blanchard SO ME HON. M&~ER S: MR. LUSH : Tape No. 1660 NM - 2 Deputy Minister of Labour, Hear, hear! - who did a commendable job right.throughout, and maybe thi.s is the MR. TULK: When he was allowed to. MR. LUSH ': - maybe this is the gentleman whom the government should hire with respect to negotiating the offshore, .because he certainly proved himself to be an exc .ellent negotiator, Mr. Speaker. So that is the a:ae man who should be praised. the NTA, Mr.

Speaker, Of cou .rse 1 we should also praise for having the stamina and the tenacity of standing up to the arrogant methods of negotiating by this government. It was they who saved :·.the collective bargaining process . when the government, Mr. Speaker, brought back to th,e bargaining table an i tern that was previously agreed to, 3 58 It

May 3,1983 Tape No. 1661 ah-1 MR.LUSH: namely the substitute teachers' pay issue. As I said in this hon ·. House previously 1 this was:one item on which they had to change their stand.They had to change their stand, Mr. Speaker, because the NTA could not accept the ~tsring of the pot on this itern.It was a matter of contract stripping and any sweetening of the pot would not have satisfied the NTA. I am disappointed that the government tried to play around with this item of contract stripping and the only way to settle the dispute was to remove it from the table completely and that is what they had to do.

That is what they had to do, Mr. Speaker, remove it from the table completely, although they had tried to get . it back on , they tried to carry through with this contract stripping. But, Mr. Speaker, thanks to the NTA, thanks to their stamina, thanks to their tenacity, they hung in there and certainly won a great battle for unions, not only in Newfoundland but right throughout Canada. So, Mr.Speaker, it was a great victory for the NTA in this respect. So, Mr.

Speaker, we are glad that the students are back in schools, the 150,000 students that the government chose to lockout to deny them of their education, they are now back. So, Mr. Speaker, we are happy for that, and let the credit go to where it belongs 1 to the NTA and to Mr. Blanchard. SOME HON.MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.SPEAKER (Russell): SOME .HON.MEMBERS: MS.VERGE: The hon. Minister of Education. Hear, hear! Mr. Speaker, I want to assure all hon. members of the House of Assembly that I and all the members of government are very relieved and happy that schools across the Province are open again.

It is my opinion,based on advice from my officials,that through a combination of good judgements by teachers and hard work by students,most of the losses to students resulting from 3585

May 3,1983 Tape No . 1661 ah-2 MS.VERGE: the three week teachers' st rike can be recouped . The school year spans 190 days and is schedul ed to end on June 17. Ther e will be no change in the school closing dat e. However ,the school year has a built -in cushion to allow for some lost time. All senior high school courses are designed for either 55 or 110 instructional hours 1 depending on the number of credits assigned to each course . The normal school year provides 62 and 124 instructional hours,respectively,for one credit and two credit courses . The ~~ee week closure of schools reduced available in -clas s teaching time by 6 hour s in one credit courses 3586 "

May 3, 1983 Tape 1662 EC - l MS VERGE: and twelve hours in two credit courses. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, with minor adjustments to instructional ·programrnes and examination schedules, there will be adequate time in the balance of the school year to complete course requirements. Several school boards have indicated their intention to eliminate or reduce the amount of time, usually two weeks, spent on internal final exam­ inations. Students can be assigned final grades based on class tests, teacher assessments and accumulative results of various evaluations completed during the year.

For its part, government is considering the possibility of scheduling the public e'xaminations for Level 3000 high school courses during the two week period following the end of the school year. These initiatives could allow schools to regain up to two weeks of teaching time lost as a result of the strike. Mr. Speaker, most Level II or Grade XI students are now taking two Level 3000 courses and will,consequently,have to write two public examinations. If it is decided to

schedule the examinations after the closing of the school year, there will be no need to adjust the content of public examination courses. For grades and subjects not involved in the public examinations, minor adjustments may be necessary. Decisions regarding these adjustments will be made at the local level where the full situation is known. Schools will give special attention to sequential subjects such as mathematics to ensure that the topics needed for continued success at the next grade level are taught. In non-sequential subjects, teachers will be advised to focus on the development of specific skills which are unique to the particular objectives of the course. Other materials 3587

May 3, 1983 MS VERGE: private study . Tape 1662 EC - 2 may be assigned to students for Mr . Speaker, it has to be acknowledged that some students in the Avalo n North Integrated School district have lost more time than their counterparts else\'<'here in the Province. 35 88

May 3, 1983 Tape No. 1663 MJ - 1 MS. VERGE: Some schools in the Avalon North district were closed for five weeks due to the support workers' strike before Easter and students in those schools have now missed eight weeks' school because of strikes. Measures taken to help students make up for lost time will be critically important in the Avalon North district. Any special measures for Avalon North will have to be initiated by the teachers and administrators in that district. The Department of Education will try to assist the Avalon North School Board in every way possible. In conclusion, Mr.

Speaker, let me say I am confident that teachers, school boards and the Department of Education will co-operate to ensure that the time lost because of labour/management conflicts will not impede the normal progress of students from this year to the next school year. Sm'!E HON. ~lliMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) The hon. the member for Terra Nova. MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, I would suggest that the minister remove her hand from the dog's mouth gently.

She is into an area now, I would suggest,that is certainly out of her depth when we talk about such professional matters as to how the professional people out there, the teachers, are going to try and make up for lost time. I would say that the teachers are the best ones to analyse this situation, they are the ones who know how to make up for lost time,if it can be made up for at all,and I certainly would not want to be a party to adding further insults to the teaching profession of Newfoundland. These are internal matters, these are professional matters, Mr.

Speaker, and I am certainlv willing to leave it in their hands. They are I . - the ones who know what they have to do;they do not need any 3589

May 3, 198 3 Ta pe No. 1663 MJ - 2 MR. LUSH: suggestions from the minister,. ~hey are the ones who are into internal evaluation, they are the professionals, they are the ones who know how to do it.so what the minister said, Mr. Speaker, I think was far beyond her responsibility and I will leave it to the professionals to take care o~. MR. SPEAKER (R'\lS sell) : Order, please! At this time I would like to welcome to the Speaker's gallery the hon. Ken Streatch, MLA, who is the Minister of Fisheries for the Province of Nova Scotia, Mr. Mel Pickings 1 MLA,Lunenburg West,Nova Scotia,and Mr.

John Benjamin,who is the assistant to the minister. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. NEARY: M.l'l.. SPEAKER: Opposition. MR. NEARY: Hear, hear! O:RAL 0UESTIONS Mr. Speaker. The hon. the Leader of the Mr. Speaker, the delivery of health care programmes in this Province seem to be falling apart. Every day now we are bearing announcements from various hospitals throughout the Province that they are closing down so many beds, they are closing down this ,.. -·· -·· unit or that unit and that they are going to lay off staff. Now, 3590

May 3, 1983 Tape 1664 PK - 1 MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I do not know really how to get at this because there are so many hospitals involved. I will start with a question to the Minister of Health (Mr. House) on the Health Science CompleR. and we will take them one at a time. Could the han. gentleman tell this House how many beds are currently closed at the Health Science Complex? How many staff will be laid off at the Health Science Complex?

What units will be closed for the Summer? what affect this is going to have on sick people in this Province, particularly on people ~'l'ho are on the waiting list waiting to be admitted to hospital? Could the han. gentleman give us a sort of a brief idea of what is happening at the Health Science Complex and what we can expect during the Summer months when they cutbackon the staff and close beds and units and so forth? MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : MR. HOUSE: The han. Minister of Health. Mr.

Speaker, some time ago 1 when we announced the royal commission on the delivery of health care, we announced also that hospitals are having to cutback on what their requests were and that we were putting into place a monitoring committee composed of the medical profession, the Department of Health and the Hospital Association to monitor these presumed cutbacks.

We did, as is well known 1 through thebudget process give a 12 per cent increase in hospital operating costs,and we asked the hospital then to come to us and to the monitoring committee with their plans for accommodating our request and plans for accommodating health care delivery within the budget that they had. At this point in time,I have had some verbal contact with the Health Science Complex, but that pHrticular organization has not yet related to us what their cutbacks will be, what their ~rograrnrne is going to be 3581

May 3, 1983 Tape 1664-PK -2 HR. HOUSE: to accommodate,as I said, the money they have. One of the things most hospitals are doing -I am only responding now to the hon. member' s request about the Health Sciences Complex -mostly what they are doing is something that has been happening every yea~ because they could not get staff,is to have a slowdown during the Summer~ So I have not got the full information from the Health Science Complex as yet, and it is difficult for me 3592

May 2, 1983 Tape 1665 EC - 1 MR. HOUSE: to answer since I do not have it but as soon as I get it I will relay the information to the House. I have it on several other hospitals but not on this one yet because, first of all,they are making an assessment, Mr. Speaker, and then they will be coming to us and we will be assessing it and replying to them. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Before I recognize the hon. the Leader of the Opposition, I would like to welcome to the galleries today a delegation from the town council of Musgravetown, Mayor Charles Butt and councillor Ewart Hall. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR.

SPEAKER: Opposition. MR. NEARY: Hear, hear! The hon. the Leader of the Mr. Speaker, obviously the impact of these cutbacks at the Health Sciences Complex are going to be devastating on sick people. Can the hon. gentleman stand by the statement that he made - I am not sure if he made it inside the House or outside the House - a couple of weeks ago, that nobody will die as a result of these cutbacks at hospitals? MR. ~UillSHALL: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: On a point of order, the hon. the President of the Council. MR.

MARSHALL: The hon. gentleman is obviously making a speech and making his usual unfounded statements in the process of the Question Period. A supplementary question is in order, not a speech. MR. NEARY: How nasty! It was only a little

preamble. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! As I have stated several times in the House, and it is written in Beauchesne, 3593

~ay 3, 1983 Tape 1665 EC - 2 MR. SPEAKER (Russel·l): a supplementary question does not need any

preamble whatsoever. MR. NEARY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was just asking the hon. gentleman if he still stands by that statement or now, in view of the whole thing developing into a shambles in the delivery of health care, would the hon, gentleman care to retract? Now, can the hon. gentleman tell us how many beds are currently closed at the Health Sciences Complex? And while he is on his feet, perhaps he could also inform us if there have been any resignations from the medical school over at the university and the Health Sciences Complex? Have they had any resignations from doctors?

Because of the \vay that the health care programme is deteriorating and collapsing, have there been any resignations as a result of the cutbacks at the Health Sciences Complex? MR. SPEAKER: MR. HOUSE: The hon. the Minister of Health. Mr. Speaker, the first part of the question on which the hon. the Leader of the Opposition was called to order, 'Do I still stand by the statement?' I wrote a letter responding to an

article that was put into a particular newspaper that is very friendly to the cuts that I have made and they had more or less stated that people are going to die as a result of the actions taken by government. 3594

May 3, 1983 Tape No. 1666 SD - 1 MR. HOUSE: The response that I made, and I certainly stand by it, is that because of the nature of the kind of cuts that we are anticipating that there will be no emergency or emergent problems neglected and any kind of invasive cancer or anything like that will be taken care of as an emergency or an emergent problem. Now I did not guarantee anybody that they would not die. As a matter of fact I started going around the city and people were coming up and thanking me for the fact that I was going to assure their longevity.

The fact of the matter is it is as a result of the actions taken. ~r. Speaker, there will be delays on certa~n things. There will be ,delays on optional surgery, which has ah;ays been put off, as a matter of fact, throughout the years. Certainly we are going to try to do our best. That is why we put in place the monitoring committee also 1 to discuss with professionals the programmes that hospitals are putting in place. So far we have accepted a lot of what th .e hospitals are doing; others we have sent back for reviews. Now, Mr.

Speaker, the close­ downs: As I said, I have no definite number from the HealthSciences Complex. Now with regard to people resigning from the medical school, this is always happening. There were one or two who resigned and these resignations will be taking place now. This took place long before there was any budgetary considerations. These were people who come here for a period of time and they are going back to some other field of endeavour. As a matter of fact, Mr.

Speaker, there is no cutback basically in the School of Medicine because they were running a pretty tight ship and they are running just exactly like they were ran years before us. So you are not getting resignations as a result of that. I did have a couple of medical people call me and say. because of certain peculiarities they were very upset, but I 3595

May 3, 1983 Tape No. 1667 NM- 1 MR. HOUSE: can certainly defend that and I will defend it. What they were upset about., because it happened to be not cutting back on their services that give, but more or less perhaps it would be a little more inconvenient for the particular surgeon. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : MR. NEARY: The hon. Leader of the Opposition. A supplementary, Mr. Speaker.

The han. gentleman mentioned the School of Medicine,that he did not anticipate any cutbacks, Well,what about the School of Nursing? would the hon. gentleman also tell us over at the Health Scienc~Complex if his monitoring committee or if the han. gentleman himself has had an opportunity to take a look at the waiting lists for people who are waiting to get in for surgery at the Health Sciences Complex, lf he has,could the han. gentleman enlighten the House as to how big these waiting lists are_ and what can be done? MR. TULK: Are they increasing or what? MR.

NEARY: Are they increasing or decreasing as a result of the cutbacks or just what is the situation concerning the waiting lists 1 could the hon. gentleman tell the House? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Health. MR. HOUSE: Mr. Speaker, we have waiting lists. We get them undated from year to year. Each hospital has them and I would suggest that in a number of cases some hospi tais ha-ve the same p-eople on the waiting lists, they -·are overlapping to a degree, and it depends on the hospital you talk to.

As a matter of fact 1 it was only about four years ago that I talked to one hospital that had 3 !_700 on the waiting list, and I talked to that same hospital now and there are 900. What is peculiar about these waiting lists is the fact that in a lot of cases people do 3596

May 3, 1983 Tape No. 1667 NM- 2 MR. HOUSE: not turn up when you call them, and when you have a waiting list like this it is optional. One of the problems we have, Mr. Speaker, one of the great problems we have with waiting lists is with back problems, neurosurgery I suppose, back problems. We only have two surgeons in the Province and there is a fairly good backlog there, because we have difficulty in getting a third surgeon. In that paticular one there is a fairly large waiting list.

But the is no cutback in that particular operating room time, the two surgeons are fully employed there, and the number of beds are there available. As a matter of fact,in that particular case we opened up twenty-two beds last year of which we guaranteed eight to the Workers' Compensation. That is the major waiting list that we have. And a lot of times the waiting list is dependent on other things other than space available. It is dependent on,of course,the availability of surgeons to do the job also. So, Mr.

Speaker, what + am saying is in the najor problem areas such as neurosurgery and cardiovascular, these are going at full tilt and it will continue to do so. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. Leader of the Opposition. 3587

May 3,1983 MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Opposition. MR. NEARY: Tape No. 1668 ah-1 The hon. Leader of the Mr. Speaker, it would be a very worthwhile exercise indeed if the hon. gentleman were to produce the numbers, the statistics on the waiting list at the Health Sciences Complex. Would the hon. gentleman care to undertake to get that information for the House, the various categories, the numbers, the statistics, concerning waiting lists at the Health Sciences Complex? Now, Mr.

Speaker, I will just move a little way down the road here and talk about the Janeway because I believe it was only in the last twenty-four hours that announcements were made about drastic cuts at the Janeway this coming Summer and the weeks and months ahead. Could the hon.gentleman give us a run-down on what is happening at the Janeway Hospital, the children's hospital? And could he also tell us if it is possible to take some of the money that was saved on the teachers' dispute and use it to keep the Janeway Hospital and the other hospitals operating at full capacity for the remainder of this year? MR.

SPEAKER: Health. MR.HOUSE: The hon. Minister of Mr. Speaker, I do not have the details before me on the Janeway but their board has met and made decisions and what they are ~nsuring me,pretty well,is the fact that there is going to be very little slow­ down. But what I want to point out, Mr. Speaker, is that all of these hospitals in past years have had a severe slow­ down in the Summer. Basically the slowdown has coincided with the times people take of for vacation.

Most people working in these hospitals like to take the months between June and September for vacation,and most of the hospitals are capitalizing on that because it is also the time when surgeons take their vacation and it is also 3598

May 3, 1983 Tape No. 1668 ah-2 MR . HOUSE: the time \'lhen the other categories of workers take their vacations. So the major thing in the Janeway, I gather , is going t.o be a sl owdown during the Summer, which is quite normal, but we are assured that all of the emergencies and, of course, the invasive problems and emergent problems will be looked after. They are going to handle it quite adequately. As a matter of fact, because we have given this year to do the total programme, they are able to plan the Summer slowdown and live within the budget.

So I am gettin g from the Janeway that they are going to be able to handle the situation and maintain top quality care. MR. NEARY: A supplementary . 35 99

May 3, 1983 Tape 1669 PK - l. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : A supplementary, the hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman is more optimistic than most people because the situation at the Janeway seems to be abnormal,. it is not just a normal slowdown for the Summer vacation. I think I heard the administrator this morning making a statement that there would not be any Summer relief hired and there are various and sundry other cutbacks. AN HON. MEMBER: Did you say normal? MR. NEARY: Abnormal, not normal, Mr. Speaker.

The hon. gentleman does not have very much information on the Janeway; the monitoring committee obviously is not communicating the information to the hon. gentleman. We should have a full, updated statement in this House on what is happening in the delivery of health care services. What about St. Clare's Hospital, Mr. Speaker? There seems to be dr2 .stic measures taken at St. Clare's to try to cut back because of the $30 million shortfall in the hospital care programmes this fiscal year.

Could the hon. gent~eman enlighten us more than he has on the Janeway and the Health Sciences .. - complex and give us some specific details on what is going to happen at St. Clare's \·lhere drastic things seem to be in the making? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Health. MR. HOUSE: Mr. Speaker, I just have to make a little response to the

preamble , He mentioned that the administrator said there was going to be a slowdown in the Summer and no hiring of Summer help. That is exactly the answer I gave him. 3600

May 3, 1983 Tape No. 1669 PK - 2 MR. HOUSE: The answer was they were . slowing down in the Summer, and the whole reason for slowing down in the Summer is to be able to accommodate people going on vacation. That was the whole purpose. MR. WARREN: So little children are going to be in danger, right? MR. HOUSE: There are no children going to be in danger. With regards to St. Clare's, Mr. Speaker, I am meeting with St. Clare's tomorrow on their programme. · And, incidentally, the monitoring committee will only come back to me and to the department - and the department is represented - if there is a real problem.

At the Janeway we do not have real problems as yet. With regards to St. Clare's, we have had about three announcements. We had one made by the leader of the union, CUPE, who said they were going to close the hospital down for the Summer. Then we had some reaction against that by the hospital administration, who said they have not made a decision yet. But certainly we are not going to close down the hospital. - · The latest that I have - of course, it is not official yet because, as I said, I am meeting with them tomorrow, the latest I have is that, again for the Summer months, they are 3601

May 3, 1983 Tape No. 1670 MJ - 1 MR. HOUSE: going to close about sixty beds of the 340 and that will be fairly normal for Summer activity. So you ~re going to have 280 beds open. Now, I am only saying that, Mr. Speaker, from a cursory knowledge.

I do not have the full knowledge of it for the simple reason that they have not made the full determination yet on what they are going to do, but certa~nly that is one of the options.And that is not a bad option because,as I said,they are looking at their waiting list, they are looking at their surgical capacity for the Summer;and they will not need all their operating rooms or all their beds opened. So,as I said, all I am saying is that that is just a cursory glance at that.I am meeting with that particular hospital tomorrow. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker.

The han. the Leader of the Opposition. Mr. Speaker, I do hope when the han. gentleman meets with the hospital tomorrow that ):le will bring a full and detailed report into this han. House. It seems,from the answers I am getting from the hen. gentleman,that people now are not allowed to get sick in the Summer time, especially little children. MR. WARREN: MR. NEARY: year now, Mr. Speaker, want to get ill. Thati:is right. You have to pick the time of the t they want to get sick, they Mr.

Speaker, what about the Central Newfoundland Hospital at Grand Falls,will there be any cutbacks in staff or in services at the Central Newfoundland Hosptial in Grand Falls? Mr. Speaker, the han. the minister does not seem to be on top of this at all. It is a very, very urgent and 3602

May 3, 1983 Tape No. 1670 MJ ~ 2 MR. NEARY: serious rna tter •. He does not. :seem to know. T'7hat is happening in Grand Falls, could the hon, gentleman tell the House? MR. HOUSE: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. the Min~ster of Hea~th. MR. HOUSE: Mr, Speaker, let me just comment about people not getting sick in Summer and all this foolishness that the hon, member is saying, prompted by the hon. member for Torngat Mountains (Mr.

Warren), People do get sick Summertime, and what we are saying is that we look after emergencies Summertime, we look after emergencies •' all the time, they are always ever open, all the time. What.people do not ordinarily'do is go in for optional surgery at these particular times, Basically because doctors are not available 1but also because of the fact that pepple just want to enjoy the good weather and so on. So that is a silly statement. ·rt is just like the si~ly statement that we are balancing the budget on the backs of the poor and the sick and the children.

That is silly because we spend most of our money on those groups anyway. SOME HON. MEMBERS; MR. SPEAKER: MR. HOUSE: Oh, oh! Order, please! With regard to th .e Central Newfoundland Hospital,there will be a few layoffs. There is going to be perhaps as much as about twenty-five 1 as far as I could gather. Now a lot of these will come out of th,e School forNursingAssistant Training. We are closing that particular unit for the year 1f:i.rst of all because therearearnple people being trained at the College of Trades and Technology and we have an oversupply of these nursing assistants now. 3603

May 3, 1983 Tape 1671 EC - 1 MR. HOUSE: The other thing is they are going to be rotating a closure of about twenty beds in that particular area for the Summer and it will not be all at the same time. There will be some surgical beds closed for a period and then some medical beds and some other specialist beds. And this is done in order to facilitate some repairs that have to be effected. So, Mr. Speaker, they are certainly going to be able to accommodate it well. There may be up to twenty-five layoffs in this particular case. MR. NEARY: MR, SPEAKER (Russell): Leader of the Opposition. MR.

NEARY: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary, the hon. the Mr. Speaker, would the hon. gentleman,when he is answering my next question, indicate whether or not these drastic measures are being implemented with the blessing of the Newfoundland Medical Association and the Newfoundland Nurses' Association, or are these unilateral decisions made by the various boards and by the minister's officials without any prior consultation with the Newfoundland Medical Association or the Newfoundland Nurses' Association? Now, Mr.

Speaker, what is happening Ln the case of Corner Brook, where the Premier's buddy is the administrator? W11at is happening in Corner Brook? Will there be any beds closed there during the Summer? The hon. gentleman seems to be falling back on that now for an excuse. Does the weather have any bearing on when people get sick or when they do not get sick in this Province? What about Corner Brook, will there be any layoffs, closedowns - closing beds, closing units - in Corner BrooR? 3604

t-tay 3, 1983 1-!R. SPEAKER (Russell) : t-lR. HOUSE: Tape 1671 EC - 2 The bon. the l>linister of Health. Mr. Speaker, whether or not \\'e get the blessing of the Medical Association or the Nurses' Association, ARNN, the medical association is working with us very ,.,ell in this. They are members of the monitoring committee . The Hospital Association - and they have people from nursing with that committee - are in constant dialogue with us . They are reasonable ,intelligent people 3605

May 3, 1983 Tape No.l672 SD - 1 M..~. HOUSE: who acknowledge that they have doubled their budget in the last five years. They acknowledge There has to be a stocktaking of what is happening. I guess it may hit some of them in the pocketbooks and so on, but they are certainly going along with us in this. Unilaterally, Mr. Speaker? 'i7e discussed the budgets with the various hospital boards and then they met with their various people to see what measures they could take.

And, of course, obviously nobody is going to come back and say, 'We congratulate you for this', but they are certainly living with it and are being consulted. With regard to Corner Brook, Mr. Speaker, Corner Brook, I think, was the hospital thatset the pace in living with their budget. Very shortly after the announcement was made ,they came on and said what they were doing,and one was the fact that they were going to also close down the Nursing Assistants' School, but they were also having some layoff in the administration and clerical and there would be some slowdO\V'n again, for the Summer. And, Mr.

Speaker, if they do not slow down for the Summer there is not going to be that much. to do because there will be a lot of vacant beds anyway. Corner Brook has done theirs in that way also. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (Russell! : of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Supplementary, the han. Leader Mr. Speaker, I am more convinced now~with my line of questioning that the han. gentleman owes it to the people of this Province to make a full and detailed statement. MR. CALLAN: He should resign, I say. MR. NEARY: He should resign with the way the thing is deteriorating. But I want to finish off my 3606

May 3, 1983 Tape No. 1672 SD - 2 MR. NEARY: questioning of the minister, Mr. Speaker, on Gander and on the Grace Hospital. Now what is happening in connection with the Grace? The hon. gentleman is making statements that no serious surgery will be postponed as a result of these cutbacks. I hope the hon. gentleman will be able to stand by his words 1 that he will not have to eat these words in 'anc::)ther few days or few weeks or few months. Would the hon. gentleman tell us what is happening in connection with the Grace General Hospital and Gander Hospital?

And will the hon. gentleman undertake before this week is out to make a full and detailed, compr$hensive statement on the situation regarding the deiivery of health care services in this Prpvince and in our hospitals? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Health. MR. HOUSE: Mr. Speaker, I cannot give a cortim.itment on whether I will be able to give a full 1 detailed account of what is happening. So far from what I have been getting back from hospitals, I am very pleased with the approach they are taking. 3607

May 3,1983 Tape No. 1673 ah-1 MR. HOUSE: As I said 1it is not all easy. We have acknowledged the fact that we could spend more if we had it 1but I do believe that they recognize the fact that we have to live within certain monetary frameworks, They are doing \ITell and I am very pleased with the approach they have taken. With regard to the Grace, they are closing a few special, sections of the hospital.

One is ophthalmology, but that does not close the facility~ they are integrating that with the ear, nose and throat division and the doctor there will have the same amount of surgery time as he had before~ But patients instead of going to 'an ophthalmology ward to recouperate, will be going in with the ear, nose and throat people. They are going to close down a few of the gynecology beds there.

There are six beds for dermatology, they were separate and very much underutilized, so they are being integrated with a surgical ward The other thing is they are beefing up the outpatients because that is one discipline,I suppose you could call it, that does not require much in-bed time. They are closing one of the operating rooms for the Summer because it would be underutilized. The other thing is they are going to have a big slowdown, a closure like they did this yea~ during the Christmas season and we are looking at reviewing their recommendations on day care psychiatry. Mr.

Speaker, that is the process taken there so far, That may change because they are still relooking a few things • I will be meeting with that hospital board if it is necessary to change it from what they are recommending. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker. MR.SPEAKER (Russell): The han. member for Torngat Mountains. 3608

May 3,1983 Tape No . 1673 ah-2 MR . WARREN: Mr . Speaker, a supplementary to the Minister of Health (Mr.House). In view of the fact that there have been eight petitions presented in the House this past week and a half,and in particular I think there was one from the hon. z.tinister of Northern Development (Mr.

Goudie) concerning the North West River hospital 1 the prayer of the petition requesting the Department of Health to hold back in closing down the North West River Hospital until a study was done into.health care 1 has the minister considered the seriousness of those petitions that were signed by over 3000 people in Labrador? Has the minister taken this into consideration? If so, could the minister advise the House if the Ndrth West River Hospital will be closed down by November 30. MR .• SPEAI<ER (RUSSELL) : The han. Minister of Health. -· 3609

May 3, 1983 Tape No. 1674 MR. HOUSE: Mr. Speaker, I certainly take every petition that comes in seriously because they are corning from people who are concerned for one reason or another. And i'f I were convinced that the problem is a health care problem,certainly I would have to take a look at it and consider extending it. But this is,in our estirnation 1what we have been doing and in this particular case it is not a health care problem. I went to Labrador last week, I went on the stage there with the people - MR. CALLAN: I saw you on television. NM - 1 MR.

HOUSE: - and I guaranteed them that the health care delivery would not only be the sarne,it would be improved. Because you could have all the beds you like, you could have 1,000 beds in that part of Labrador -there are only 13,000 people-but the important thing is getting the proper doctors, surgeons, and so on, and it is not the hosptial, it is the quality of the health staff that you will get there. And we know for sure and certain that the hospital that we have in Melville is able to do that job in conjunction also with .St. Anthony. Like I said, you cannot separate it.

You cannot bring into Goose Bay a surgeon for every particular disease ·; it just cannot be done 7 you will not get them there. And we are guaranteeing an upgraded service in that particular area. We also guaranteed a hostel service for the people of the Coast. MR. CALLAN: You have been providing that ever since you were elected. MR. ROUSE: That was one of the services that that hospital was providing and we think we can do that a lot cheaper than $300 a day. MR. CALLAN: Did you say hostel or hOstile? 3610

May 3, 1983 Tape No. 1674 NM - 2 MR. HOUSE: Now, Mr. Speaker, the real problem, and I make no bones about this, the real problem with the closure of the hospital in North West River is just the same problem they had with the school,because there were no pupils there, and the children's home,because there were no children in the home. I recall,I believe,that they had three children in the home the last year that operated and­ I do not know-they had ten or a dozen staff there. You know 1 this is just totally unrealistic.

I know it is hard on the community, it is going:to create social problems,but the point of it is we have to look at the medical problems, the health care delivery and I am guaranteeing that the health care delivery will certainly be improved as a result of the actions we are taking. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : expired. Hear, hear! Order, please! The time for Question Period has ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS FOR WHICH NOTICE HAS BEEN GIVEN: MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker 1 I have an answer to question Number 59 appearing on the Order Paper of March 23, 1983. 3611

May 3, 1983 Tape No. 1675 JV - 1 ORDERS OF THE DAY MR. 11ARSHALL: Motion No. 1, Budget Debate. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Notion No. 1. The debate last day was adjourned by the hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, this is day five of the Budget Speech - MR. ANDREWS: You did not talk _<!pout Stephenville or the Port au Basques hospital? MR. NEARY: If I was the hon. gentleman I would talk about the fish plant in Ramea. The han. gentleman should be down trying to mend his fences with the people of Rarnea where he told them everything was going to be taken care of when Mr.

Kirby made his report,and the hon. gentleman should tell us about the reception he got in Stephenville over the weekend. Mr. Speaker, this is day five of the Budget debate which is really, I suppose,the main debate. The most important debate to take place in this House is the Budget debate and I would hope, Mr. Speaker, that every hon. gentlemen on both sides of the House, before the Budget debate ends,will participate in this debate. I know the Government House Leader (Mr. Marshall) and the Premier are rushing to get the House closed, they want to shut the House down as soon as they can,Mr. Speaker.

I was figuring out today, down in my office with my colleague, that this House has only been sitting now seven weeks, seven sitting weeks. We had two weeks out for Easter so we have only been sitting approximately, not quite, approximately seven weeks and already they want to close down the House, after s.even weeks, Mr. Speaker. so I want to tell han. gentlemen now that I am not filibustering. , \te have so much to talk about on this side of the House and so far it has taken me five 3612

May 3, 1983 Tape No . 1675 JV - 2 Z.1R. NEARY : days,that is part of each daily sitting because we have the Oral Question period and we have the Presenting of Petitions and rafts of Ministerial Statements so I do not get the full time. So,really what I have had so far,I suppose, is about five and a half hours, maybe six hours at the most, which is not really very much when you look at the number of problems that we have in this Province at the present time . We have some serious problems and one of the problems, by the way, was highlighted today during the Oral Question period when we were talking about the cutbacks in the delivery of 361 3

May 3, 1983 Tape 1676 EC - l MR. NEARY: health care services in this Province. Never before, Mr. Speaker, in the history of this Province, I suppose, did an hon. member stand in his place in this House and ask the Minister of Health about one hospital after the other. MR. LUSH: Or any province. MR. NEARY: Or inany province in Canada or probably any country in the world. Because if you are building and developing and progressing, Mr. Speaker, you are opening hospitals and opening hospital beds, not cutting back. Mr.

Speaker, we spent practically the whole Question Period today trying to develop a picture, trying to get, as they say, an overview - MR. LUSH: A global view. MR. NEARY: - a global view, a provincial view of what is happening in the field of health-care services in this Province. Did we get it? Did the hon. the Minister of Social Services (Mr. Hickey) get a clear picture from the Minister of Health (Mr. House), his colleague? MR. HICKEY: Yes. MR. NEARY: He did?

Well, perhaps the Minister of Social Services then can tell us about the waiting list at the Health Sciences Complex, can tell us what categories they fall under . MR. HICKEY: Mr. Speaker, I dare not tell, I am not allowed to speak on behalf of another minister in an answer to a question. I can only answer with regard to my own department as per the rules of the House. MR.. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman is not allowed to speak on this matter, the Minister of 3614

May 3, 1983 Tape 1676 EC - 2 MR. NEARY: Health {Mr. House) is not allowed to speak on this matter. MR. TULK: He cannot even speak on his own department. MR. NEARY: on his own department. ~..R. PEACH: MR. NEARY: The hon. gentleman cannot speak You will be talking all day sure. No, Mr. Speaker. If I am not interrupted, before the afternoon is over, I may bring my few remarks to an end. But if hon. gentlemen there opposite keep interrupting me, Mr. Speaker, I may go on until 5:30 P.M. or 6:00 P.M. I have some things I want to talk about, I have some points I want to make.

I want to talk about the economy, I want to talk about the price of electricity, I want to talk about record unemployment in this Province, I want to talk about a crisis in the fishery. 1~. TULK: You are the only person in the Opposition who can manage that. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, if I cave in and I take my seat, then we go back to the half hour debate back and forth across the House, which would give the Government House Leader {Mr. Marshall) an opportunity then to shut her down. MR. TULK: Shut her down, that is right. That is what he wants to do. MR.

NEARY: That is the kind of a game they are playing, that is what he is looking for. MR. PATTERSON: No, he wants a chance to speak. MR. NEARY: The hon. gentleman will have his half hour. MR. TULK: That is all hewill get. MR. NEARY: That is all the hon. gentleman is allowed under the rules of this House, the Tory Government, 3615

May 3, 1983 Tape 1676 EC - 3 MR . NEARY: when they came in, saw to that . There was a tine when the hen . gentleman first came into the House in 1966 - J. ~'lR . DINN: You have been U!> for four days now and you have sa~d nothing yet. MR . NEARY : In 1966 when the hen. the member for St. John 's East Extern, the Minister of Social Services (Mr . Hickey) sat over here - I believe about right now - 3616

May 3, 1983 Tape 1677 PK - 1 MR. NEARY: -in those days the han. gentleman was allowed unlimited time. HR. HICKEY: No, no. MR. NEARY: Yes, yes. The hon. gentleman could participate in debate and had unlimited time. HR. HICKEY: MR. NEARY: gentleman had unlimited time. HR. HICKEY: Yes, about a ninety minute sreech. No, Mr. Speaker. The han. You could get up on every subject. MR. NEARY: estimates. He is talking about the I am talking about the Throne Speech and the Budget debate. There was no restrictionplaced on the time that han. members were allowed. MR. HICKEY: Ninety minutes. MR. NEARY: No, Mr.

Speaker, it is only since the Tories took over that they have limited the estimates to seventy-five hours and limited the debate on the Throne Speech and the BUdget Speech in this House. And further to that,by the wa~when the est±mateswere debated back and forth across the floor of this House , and any han. gentleman either side ~f the House can go and check the Hansard and the han. gentlemen will verify what I am saying- MR. HICKEY: Why would the han. gentleman who hangs behind you ask the House if there was unanimous consent that I could carry on? That was Speaker Clarke, he was not a Tory. Ninety minutes. MR.

NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the ~on. gentleman - during the Budget debate when we were doing estimates item by item there was no restriction. HR. HICKEY: Right. MR. NEARY: None. J.I.1R. HICKEY: Right. MR. NEARY: The hon. gentleman could get 3617

May 3, 1983 Tape No. 1677 PK-2 MR. NEARY: up as often as he wanted, as long as he wanted. As long as he was withi~ the realm of good taste the hon. gentleman could ask questions about the item by item analysis of the estimates and he was unrestricted, Mr. Speaker, he had complete freedom and could go on as long as he wanted. MR. HICKEY:: Right. MR. NEARY: But, you know, the hon. gentleman will have to admit that he took full advantage of that system. MR. HICKEY: I had to. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I am having it researched. Do not worry, I am having it researched. The President of the Council (Mr.

Marshall), the Government House Leader, who also sat on this side of the House, got his first taste of freedom in this House under a Liberal Administration, when the han. gentleman could sit here day in and day out - and now he gets up and he criticizes members ·Of the Opposition for giving a little

preamble to their questions by making provocative statements or trying to intimidate ministers. The hon. gentleman has accused us of all of that. Mr. Speaker, members there o~posite should go and get Hansard and look at the questions, read the questions that were asked by the member for St. John ':s East Extern (Mr. Hickey) and the President of the Council. MR. HICKEY: Yes, but it would be better to read the answers we got, because there were none. Because there was no Question Period. MR. NEARY: I see. Now they are changing their tune again. It is not the questions, it is not their right to ask questions, 3618

May 3, 1983 Tape No. 1678 MJ-1 MR. NEARY: it is not their right to take all the time they wanted, now they are complaining about the answers. First the han. gentleman's colleague kept telling us in this House that there was no freedom, you could not ask any questions, you could not get any information. Now the hon. gentleman is admitting that he could do all of that but he is complaining because the answers were not to his satisfaction. So, Mr.

Speaker, if !Ii take my seat ,.,hat will happen then will be we will go back to a half an hour back and forth across the House and this House will close, I would say, in a week, certainly, to give it the outside, ten days. The House would close down after seven weeks and that would be outrageous. If I had my way the House would go right on through the Summer because we have very pressing and urgent matters to debate in this House, ~1r. Speaker. The Houseshouldbe kept open if for nothing else but the Oral Question Period. Maybe, Mr. Speaker, we have a new policy that developed this Session.

The debates are really not being reported in any great detail and, maybe, rightly so. Maybe we are not saying anything of any significance or of any importance, and maybe the poor old newsmen are bored. We are repetitious and tedious and monotonous and maybe they do not feel like reporting what we are saying.

But sometimes we do make some valid points in this House and we put forward some good proposals and good plans to the administration hoping that they will adopt these plans and implement plans that will help people out there who are suffering and people who are in grave difficulty as a result of the terrible, horrible state of the Newfoundland 3619

May 3, 198 3 Tape No. 1678 MJ - 2 MR. NEARY; and Labrador economy. So, today I think it was a very worthwhile exercise to ta,k;e the hospitals one by one and to ask the Minister of Hea~th- it is the first time, at least in my twenty-one years in this House. Mr. Speaker, we ~y ha.ve had occasionlS when the odd crisis developed in hospitals but certa~nly never before in the history of this :Province or any other province or any state in the United States did we have to ask a minister so many questions about the horrible state of the del.i,very of health care,as far as the ho~p:i;tals in this Province are concerned. We now have problems in the Health Sciences Complex, the 3520

May 3, 1983 Tape No. 1679 SD - 1 MR. NEARY: Grace General Hospital, St. Clare's Mercy Hospital, the Central Newfoundland Hospital in Grand Falls, the Janeway Children's Hospital, Corner Brook, Mr. Speaker, Ne did not get any response from the hon. gentleman on Gander, I would assume they have their share of difficulties and problems also. But, Mr. Speaker, it is a matter of grave concern to the people of this Province what is happening in the hospitals. We hear every dayof huge waiting lists of people who want to get a bed in these hospitals so that they can have surgery done, · people with back problems, Mr.

Speaker, especially, because I believe you will find that probably the largest wa~ting list is for people who have disc problems/ not considered to be emergencies but these people are suffering nevertheless, suffering badly in a lot of cases, semi­ invalids a lot of them. r1r. Speaker, there are other kinds of surgery that we have long waiting lists for, people waiting to get a bed in hospital.

I remember one case I was told about by a doctor recently where a patient was due to go in for neurosurgery and the man was told that there was quite a waiting list- they could not get a bed for him, he would have to go on the waiting list. So he went on the waiting list and several weeks later the specialist called up his wife and said, 'Would you tell your husband that I have a bed for him, he can come in for surgery'. And the wife said, 'Well, I am sorry but my husband passed away a couple of weeks ago'. Now, Mr. Speaker, how much of that is happening?

Now,hon. gentlemen can sit there with silly grins on their faces day in and day out, 3621

May 3, 1983 Tape No. 1680 NM - 1 MR. NEARY: They can sit there and pound on their desks over silly announcements by ministers, and they can joke, ridicule, and they can be as arrogant as they want, Mr. Speaker, but the fact remains that the situation in our hospitals is critical at this moment, critical! Mr. Speaker, they should not be cutting back, they should be hiring extra staff, and· they should be employing extra surgeons to try to take care of the long waiting lists. The only thing that I can say is that I hope nobody belonging to me gets sick, gets seriously ill in this Province at the present time. Mr.

Speaker, it is sad. I asked the hon. gentleman why he could not use some of the mo~e! tha~ was saved during the teachers' dispute to keep these hospital beds open. The han. gentleman did not give me an answer. They saved over $20 million as a result of the dispute with the teachers, over $20 million. Some of that money should be used, Mr. Speaker, to keep hospital beds open. You now have to pick the time you are going to get sick in this Province. You almost have to ask the weatherman; you have to pick up your phone in ~. the morning, call the weather office and say, 'Is this Summer? Are we in to Summer?

When is the official beginnning of Summer? Is it the 21st. of June~ which happens to be my birthday, Is that the beginning of Summer? And when does it end?' When does Summer start in this Province, when does it end?Because now, before you get sick, you have to check with the weatherman to find out if we are into Summer and if we are into Summer then you have to say,'Well,I am not allowed to get sick now because the hospital beds are closed, the surgeons are all on vacation, the staff are all laid off and no hiring of Summer help.' Mr.

Speaker, it is a grave and serious · situation indeed, and I hope as a result of my cross- examination of the minister today that he will come into this 3622

Hay 3 1 1983 Tape No . 1680 NH 2 MR. NEARY: House before the end of th..is- week and give us. a comprehensive and detailed statement on what is happening in the hospitals. rt is chaotic I am told, Mr. Speaker, chaotic.! I heard today about one resignation of a surgeon who could not put up with it any longer, could not tolerate it any longer. No douht my han. friend, the member for St. John's Centre ()IcNich.Olast will - DR. MCNICHOLAS: Who was he? MR. NEARY: - will welcome the resignation. It may mean increased and substantial business for my bon. friend. But, 3623

May 3, 1983 Tape No. 1681 SD - 1 MR. NEARY: Mr. s:.peaker, that is poor consolation for the people who want surgery done. Now, Mr. Speaker, let us see what the Liberals did when they were in power in the field of health care services. Let us compare what is happening today -hospital beds closing, hospitals shutting down. Let me see if I can jog han. members' memories a little bit and compare the eleven years of Toryism in this Province to the good old Liberal days, Mr.

Speaker. tet us see what happened in the field of the development of health-care in this Province in the good old Liberal days compared to what is happening now. Well, back in 1949, year one, 1949/1950, year one_ of Confederation, Mr. Speaker, in the development of health care, that much maligned Liberal administration Whic~did nothing for this Province except lay back, slouch in their chairs year in and year out - .MR._ CARTER: _ Fill their pockets. MR. NEARY: did nothing only fill their pockets-~~hat is all they did1 fill their pockets, Mr.

Speaker -slouch in their offices, spend their time down South in Florida and travelling around Europe, What did they do in the field of health care in this Province? Well,the first year of Confederation, year number one, a decision was made by the Liberal government to build a large new hospital at Corner Brook. Radio/telephones were installed in the hospital stations and boats and the Grenfell organization. That was just the beginning, Mr. Speaker, Year one, the first year of Confederatio~ -a decision made to build a great new hospital in Corner Brook. 3 6 21+

May 3, 1983 Tape No. 1682 MJ - 1 MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, now the administration are going to close down a number of wings, a number of beds e in that hospital. There is the diffe~rce you see, Mr • . ., Speaker. I was trying to indicate to this House yesterday the difference between Liberalism and Toryism. Liberalism means develop, build and deve~op. MR. TULK: Progress. MR. NEARY: Progress, build and develop. Toryism is tear down and close down and shut everything down. MR. TULK: Take it out on the poor. MR. NEARY: And especially people who cannot defend themselves.

Little children now are going to be denied proper,adequate health care services at the Janeway Hospital because of the mismanagement and the incompetence of this administration and the way they have handled the economy and our resources, Mr. Speaker. So in year number one they built a hospi~al in Corner Brook. Now, what happened in year number two? What did this great, much maligned Liberal administration do in year two of Confederation? Did they just lay back in their offices, puff on their big cigars, throw paper airplanes around their offices and travel around the world? Is that what they did? HR. TULK: MR.

NEARY: No. Insult everybody and be rude to everybody in sight and argue and squabble and fight with everybody, is that what they did, Mr. Speaker? Well, in year two - MR. TULK: What field are you in now? MR. NEARY: I am into the field of health, because today we focused attention on health care, especially in the hospitals and the crises and chaotics. 3625

.r.fay 3, 1983 Tape No, 1682 MJ - 2 MR. NEARY: Well, year one we buiJ.t a hospital in Corner Brook. MR. TULK: Started that big hospital in corner Brook. MR. NEARY: Yes. We just bare1y had gotten into Confederation when 'Bang' away she goes. N~ HON. ~~.r.ffiER: Confederation is not a hosFital though, is it? MR. NEARY: Pardon? MR. TULK: Just after Confederation he is talking about, year one. MR . NEARY: Now, year two that much maJ.igned Liberal administration started a dental programme for children in schools. A dental care programme started for children in schools. Now, Mr.

Speaker, what has this administration, what have the Tories done to the children's dental care programme that was started by a Liberal administration? They have cut that to ribbons. MR. TULK: Is it gone completely? MR. NEARY: They have cut the - 1 suppose guts is not a word you are allowed to use - but they have cut it to ribbons, Mr. Speaker, the children's dental care programme. MR. TULK: of it. MR,. NEARY: They have cut the intestines out They cut the intestines out of that programme started by a Liberal administration. MR. TULK: There is nothing wrong with guts anyway, MR.

NEARY: No, there probably is not but I would not want to use th~t term. And then in year two of Confederation because of the isolation, because several hundred communities were isolated throughout this Provine~ 3626

"" May 3, 1983 Tape No. 1683 JV - l MR. NEARY: t:he Government built four 15 ton hospital boats at the Clarenville shipyard - HR. HODDER: That was the time they were checking for tuberculosis. MR. NEARY: That is right. Tuberculosis was rampant throughout the Province - HR. DINN: MR. NEARY: That is liberalism for you, P=Stilence,'IB '­ This is liberalism - this is real liberalism you are hearing here. The hon. gentleman may not like it. I am hoping the message is filtering through, Mr. Speaker, that I am comparing the good old Liberal days to the dull old Tory days 1 when all they are doing is closing things down.

I-1r. Speaker, the gov:ernment built four 15 ton hospital boats at the Clarenville shipyardt the Sir William Whiteway Mr. Speaker, what were the names of these boats in case the member for Naskaupi (Mr. Goudie), who is prepared to stay here until August, may not remember, the han. gentleman may not recall the names of these beautiful boats that performed yeoman service in their time. !-ffi. TULK: Coast? MR. NEARY: Coast. MR. TULK: MR. NEARY: colleagues are batting zero. The boats going around the The boats going around the The Christmas Seal was one. Well, so far, my han.

There was the Sir William Whiteway, the John Kent, the Sir Richard Squires and Sir Robert Bond; their base of operations was Rose Blanche, Burgee, Hermitage and Belleoram, MR. TULK: Which one was stationed at Rose Blanche? 3627

May 3, 1983 Tape No. 1683 JV - 2 MR. NEARY: I am not sure which one was stationed in Rose Blanche! There was the Sir William Whiteway, the John Kent, the Sir Richard Squires and Sir Robert Bond. Mr. Speaker, what else happened in year two of Confederation? I know what happened in year two of · Toryism in this Province: vJe started to go downhill, they started to shut down hospitals and hospital beds. What else happened in year two? Year two a free dental clinic was established at the General Hospital, a free dental clinic, The first time in the history of Newfoundland, a free dental clinic.

Hon. members will recall the state of the eyes and the teeth of Newfoundlanders prior to Confederation. My hon. friend,the member for Exploits (Dr. Thomey), no doubt, who came to Newfoundland two or three or four years before Confederation,will recall-the state of the health of our Newfoundland and Labrador people at that time. So, Mr. Speaker, is it any wonder that one of the first acts of the Liberal administration was to bring in a dental care programme for children in this Province? And that has since been altered and drastically cut back by the Tory ·administration. 3628

May 3, 1983 Tape 16 84 EC - 1 MR. NEARY: And then, is it any wonder in year two that we provided a free dental clinic at the General Hospital. What happened in year three? MR. WARREN: Year three, I would say nothing. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, my han. colleague takes a guess, he says nothing happened in year three. By this time, after three years, the old Liberal Government was getting tired, worn out, just ready to collapse in their seats, Mr. Speaker, lying back, no original ideas, nothing to do in the Province only just take trips around the world like han. members are doing now, pick a fight wherever you can.

MR. WARREN: Where is the Minister of Development (Mr. Windsor) now? MR. NEARY: The Minister of Development, God only knows in what part of the globe he is located at the present time. MR. WARREN: He is gone somewhere to play Sir Humphrey Gilbert. MR. NEARY: Yes, he probably is. He is probably out kissing Sir Humphrey Gilbert's lady. Well, I had to laugh the other day, Mr. Speaker.

I thought it was the most humorous thing I have heard in a long time,when this fellow called in when he saw the picture of the Premier kissing the hand of Sir Humphrey Gilbert's lady and he said if he had been near the Premier that he would have given him a part of his anatomy that he could kiss, and I am sure he would have. There are an awful lot of people in this Province who would do that now, I am afraid. Anyway, year three, new T.B. SanatoriQmopened at Corner Brook. Its capacity had grown by 250 beds by the following year, a wonderful institution, 3629

May 3, 1983 Tape 1684 EC -2 MR. NEARY: a magnificent accomplishment! Now r Mr. Speaker I it is gone. The ne\-7 Western Memorial Hospital opened in Corner Brook, year three; new south wing built at the Hospital for Mental and Nervous Diseases in St. John's. Ron. gentlemen, surely, if they are of the same vintage as I am, will remember the conditions of the lunatic -they used to call it then the 'lunatic asylum', the poor house and the lunatic asylum. I mean, it was indescribable, ~tr. Spe~er, you could not describe the conditions.

The stories that people used to hear in the streets about the poor house and about the l·unatic asylum were out of this world! So, Mr. Speaker, the Liberal Government of the day, in its wisdom, built at the Hospital for Mental and Nervous Diseases a new south wing. 3630

.... May 3, 1983 Tape 1685 PK - 1 MR. NEARY: Now, Mr. Speaker, down here at the Miller Centre,whichwas the old General Hospital, han. members will recall that that was the main hospital in . - - -- Newfoundland~ It is now the Miller Centre. The Liberal Administration in its wisdom decided to build the Health Sciences Complex. But in year three of Confederation in its wisdom the Liberal Administration of the day found it necessary to construct and started a new wing of the General Hospital here in St. John's, a new wing. Were they satisfied with that?

Were the Liberals satisfied just to rest their oars, coast along, Mr. Speaker ~ MR. WARREN: They built Shea Ward, and carson Ward, all those wares. MR. NEARY: That is right. Mr. Speaker, no, they did not rest on their laurels. Later, and I will come to that when I get dcwn to the proper year, we built the Health Sciences Complex. And the Health Sciences Complex took the place of the old General Hospital and the old General Hospital is now called the !~iller Centre and is used mainly for rehabilitation. MR. WARREN: And this government is ready to close beds down there. MR.

NEARY: And now they are closing beds down there. They are shutting her down. Mr. Speaker, what about year three? Was that the end of it,in year three? Did the Minister of Health of that day throw up his arms and say, Well,that is it now, my job is done, I can go in peace? No, he did not do that. He found financial assistance for a new Grace General Hospital. Imagine that 1 the much maligned Liberal Administration whichdidnot do anything, did nothing for this Province, all they did was give t!1ings away. Well,there was one item that we were glad to give away, and that was, Mr. Speaker, a new 3631

May 3, 1983 Tape 1685 PK - 2 MR. NEARY: Grace Salvation Army General Hospital in Newfoundland and Labrador, and we were proud to do it. MR. WARREN: Now they are closing down the eye unit. MR. NEARY: And now what is happening to that? Are they closing the eye unit? Oh, my hen. colleague for St. John's Centre (Dr. r-t:::Nicholas) will be interested in learning that they are closing the eye unit now. 1!R. NARREN: That is right.

MR. !\TEARY : We are told that the surgeon is leaving, he is so disgusted with the cutbacks forced on the hospitals by this administration - they will now close down · their unit for eye care. MR. WARREN: They say they are going to combine it with ear and throat. MR. NEARY: They are going to combine it, eye, ear, nose and throat. I do not know if that is a good combination or not, perhaps my h.on. friend ma::· wish to comment after I take my seat. The hen. gentleman,if he is an expert on nothing else,he is certainly an expert on eyes, there is no question about that. A good opthalmologist.

It took me a long while in this House to be able to determine between an optomerist , an opthalmologist, and an optician. I finally got it straight. The hen. gentleman is a good opthalmologist. MR. WARREN: He is all three, is he not? MR. NEARY: No, an oph,lmologist does not have to be an optician or practice optometry. 3632

May 3,1983 Tape No. 1686 ah-1 MR.NEARY: So, Mr. Speaker, the Liberals provided assistance to the Salvation Army to build this magnificant hospital we have right up there on _ the higher levels of St. John's West. MR.WARREN: several times. MR.NEARY: I was taken care of there Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleague says that he was taken care of there several times. Y'7ell, I have to say that they did an excellent job on my hon. colleague who seems, today, to be fit and in good health. So, Mr. Speaker, that was only year three. I guess by this time the Liberals are slowing down.

Year three we provided this financial assistance and now we hear toda y from the Minister of Health (Mr.House) that the Tory administration are forcing-that magnificant institution that has performed such excellent service in the way of health care to the people of this Province is now in dire straits, now forced to close their psychiatric unit,day care, forced to close their unit for eye surgery, they are forced to close beds, Mr. Speaker. It is shameful. MR. CARTER: What was the first unit they had to" close? MR.NEARY: It 'is shameful.

The hon. gentleman should know.because he has a path worn to the unit that I first mentioned,for psychiatric care. The hon. gentleman has a path worn there. MR.WARREN: They are closing down the wards with four beds and they are taking the patients and telling them to go to semi-private and private rooms where they have to pay for them. MR.NEARY: That is right. They are closing down their wards in the various hospitals - this is a new technique- theyare closing down wards and they 3633

May 3,1983 Tape No . 1686 ah -2 MR. NEARY : are forcing people to go into semi-private or private rooms so that they will have to pay so much per bed ,and in that way the hospital will generate a little revenue . t-1R. WARREN: Right. MR.NEARY: Does my hon. friend think that is right? It is very, very hard on people on Unemployment Insurance , Worker's Compensation and Social Assistance . It is cruel. I mean,it is cruel. MR .WARREN : You go on a waiting list if you do not have the mon~y . MR.NEARY : You go on a waiting list and su ff er it out . I~ you do not have the money you cann ot get in,because you are going to have to pay for a semi-private or a private room , as my hon . I 3634

.! May 3, 1983 Tape No. 1687 SD - 1 MR. NEARY: colleague knows. Is that right? Does the han. gentleman agree with it? MR. BAIRD: I do not know the details. MR. NEARY: Well·, I ·would gladly take my seat if-the han. gentleman wants to make a comment, Mr. Speaker. Now,let us see what happened in year four -1952/1953. - !n the field of health care in this Province, year four, well here is what happened. A new hospital was built at Springdale, its first hospital.

A new hospital was built at Channel- Port au Basques, its first hospital. ~ new hospital was build at Fogo, first hospital ·, and more financial assistance to the new Grace Hospital Building fund. That was only year four. Year five, Mr. Speaker, there was really nothing big in the way of health care. Year six. Let us see what happened in year six, Mr. Speaker. Now listen to this. MY han. colleague will be interested in this. ln year six,between 1954 and 1955,for the first time a Qospital was built,by a Liberal government,at North West River. MR. WARREN: Now what is happening today? MR.

NEARY: Now who is closing it down? Mr. Speaker, do they hate the Liberals so much, are they so bigoted and so prejU:d.ic~d -.again~t --the Liberals that they have to close down everything we built and everythin~ we started? If they do, Mr. Speaker, would "they please leave out hospitals? MR. TOBIN: MR. NEARY: All they built here now was with John c. Doyle and Shaheen. Mr. Speaker, North West River got a hospital from a Liberal administration and in 1983 the Tories are closing it down. MR. WARREN: Taking · it away. MR. NEARY: Taking it away from them.

And here is another beaut for you, another dandy, because,hon. 3635

May 3, l-983 Tape No. 1687 SD -2 MR. NEARY: merr.bers tvill recall, tuberculosis was still rampant in the Province, the government in its wisdom built a fifty-six bed sanatorium at St. Anthony and that ~as the beginning, Mr. Speaker, that was the commencement of. the Curtis Memorial Hospital, that great magnificent institution on the tip of the Great Northern Peninsula that we see there toda;t that at one time, I believe, made medical history in this Province. Dr.

Thomas, I believe, came up with a technique, I do not recall now the details of it, that added immensely to medical science and progress in the field of medicine. Perhaps my hon. colleague can jog my memory on toJha:t it was1 the technique they developed at the Curtis Memorial Hospital. in St. Antho·ny that made news throughout the world in medical circles. I believe it was Dr. Thomas~ was it?-who developed some - AN BON. MEMBER: Dr. Paddon. MR. NEARY: Dr. Paddon or Dr. Thomas. I do not remember what the technique was he came up with., 3636

May 3, 1983 Tape No. 1688 NM - 1 MR. NEARY: but it was considered at the time to be a remarkable advance in the field of medicine. Mr. Speaker, in year six, the Children's Rehabilitation Centre started. And the next year, after we built the sanitorium in St. Anthony, the .· next year, in year seven, then the government built the Grenfell Hospital at St. Anthony. I think hon. colleagues will agree, a great tribute and an excellent memorial to the Liberal Administration of this Province, a great tribute to Mr.

Smallwood and his administration, a man who has been condemned and criticized and much maligned ·in this Province, especially by the President of the Council (Mr. Marshall). MR. MARSHALL: A great tribute to Mr. Smallwood's Administration was Mr. Browne's letter to your friend, Mr. Callahan, today. MR. WARREN: What about the other letter? Did you read the other letter. MR. MARSHALL: And you will see what freedom is like, what freedom has come to the Province since. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the han. gentleman was not in his seat earlier when I reminded - I am having some research done on the

preamble and on the nastiness of questions, and the narrow questioning and the buttoned-down mind of the h.on. gentleman when he was sitting on this side of the House,when the hon. gentleman was asking questions during the estimates. MR. MARSHALL: Sure I can tell you how buttoned- down things were. You need not do any research on it. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, you talk about nasty, the ultimate in nastiness, the ultimate in this Province, and the hon. gentleman now has the face to stand in this House and 3637

May 3, 198 3 MR . NEARY: qu estions. MR . TOBIN: Panama. MR. NEARY : Tape No. 1688 NM - 2 cri ticize us fa~ the way we ask Tell us about your last trip to Mr . Speaker, what happ ened in year eight in development of health? The children's health plan was announced. You would tllink., by year eight, that the Liberal Administration by that time had ground to a halt, that they would be worn out, that they would be ready fo .r the senior citizens homes,they would be decrepit, they would not be able to do anything, they would be semi-invalids.

But this Liberal Administration introduced the children's health care programme and. construction commenced on the new South and North wings of the General Hospital, the old General Hospital7 two more wings being built on, two new departments opened at the General Hospital,and financial assistance given to the Grace , Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, what has happened to all these great programmes in the last eleven years of Toryism in 3638

May 3, 1983 Tape No. 1689 MJ - 1 MR. NEARY: this Province, eLeven years with a Tory administration,under two differnet Premiers? Every one of these programmes have been downgraded, severely cutback. And,Mr. Speaker, hon, gentlemen should not deLude themselves into thinking that in the first eight years of Confederation and in the next fifteen years that ~ am going to talk about,that all was properous in this Province, that the economy was good, that we did not have unemployment. Mr.

Speaker, we had our hard times in this Province under Liberal regimes,but we always managed to find money for health care and for children and for people who were sick. Mr. Speaker, they got the number one priority, Right now health care has dropped from the top of the list. Now all they are interested in is building jails and court- houses and renovating penitentiaries. Mr.

Speaker, they are closing hospital beds -just listen to this, it is enough to make you mad, this same administration that cannot find a dollar to kee~ the children' s Jane~vay Hospital services up to the present level, they cannot do it,our little children have to suffer, Mr. speaker, this same administration can find money to renovate the penitentiary, build a big,new gymnasium down at the penitentiary-it cost several millions of dollars to renovate the penitentiary 1 they spent a few hundred thousand more to renovate the lockup, they built a new jail in Grand Falls, they built a correctional institution in Corner Brook, they built another one in Stephenville and now they are building one in Happy Valley - Goose Bay.

Mr. Speaker, there are their priorities, jails and arts and culture centers. Now . there number one priority ~s to expand the police force. .I MR. TOBIN: 'i7hat about the hospital the'! l:uilt in your district? Hhat about the hospital in Port aux Basques? MR. NEARY: You know, Mr. Speaker, it is too 3639

May 3, 19 83 Tape No . 1689 MJ ,.. 2 MR . NEARY : bad that the hon . the member for Burin - Placentia West {Mr . Tobin) does not follow my advice . Be is so ill -mannered and so rude that I believe he wou~d be doing his constituents a service if he took a course in self -improvement . MR . TOBJ:N : HR. \•lARREN : enough . Is that right? He \-Tould but he is not bright 3640

May 3, 1983 Tape 1690 EC - 1 MR. NEARY: So, Mr. Speaker, their priorities: build jails, renovate penitentaries and lockups and renovate courthouses and build new courthouses, that is the monument they are going to leave to themselves, and a few arts and culture centres thrown in. That is the monument they are going to leave for themselves, Mr. Speaker, close down hospital beds, take advantage of people who cannot defend themselves, the sick and the meek and the halt and the lame and the children because they cannot fight back, Mr. Speaker. They cannot fight back. That is why they are punishing the sick, Mr.

Speaker, they cannot fight back. That is why they are shutting down hospital beds. MR. TOBIN: What did you do with Social Services clients when you were there? Ask Garf, he will tell you. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, if the hon. gentleman does not want to take a course from Dale Carnegie or a course in good manners, he should listen to the senior members on his side who are embarrassed because of the behaviour and the attitude of the hon. gentleman. We hear the muttering and the mumbling, Mr. Speaker. MR. TOBIN: Garf ·took the Dale Carnegie course, look at what happened to him. MR. NEARY: So here is what we have: Mr.

Speaker, we have had a Tory administration for eleven years who have had as their number one priority the building of jails and correctional institutions and courthouses and renovating penitentaries and lockups. ,Mr.. Speaker, that is the;i.r number one priority. Nobody can deny that. Shall I run through the list again? Her Majesty's Penitentiary down here by the lakeside, the lockup downtown, a new jail in Grand Falls, in Bishop's Falls, a new jail in Corner Brook, a new jail in Stephenville and a new jail in Happy Valley-Goose Bay. 3641

May 3,1983 Tape No. 1691 ah-1 MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, they camouflage the name now, they do not call them jails any more. They have a fancy name on them now, they are called correctional institutions. The~ are hoping that that name will slide by the public, they will not pay any attention to them, Correctional institution , a glorified name for a jail, Mr.Speaker. And that is their priority, close down hospitals, make the poor little children of this Province suffer unnecessarily, make sick people suf fer and go on waiting lists. And, Mr.

Speaker, the Minister of Health (Mr.House) cannot convince anybody in this Province that people are not suffering as a result of his callous · decision,of mismanagement on the part of this administration, of their trying to balance their budget on the backs of the students and the sick and the teachers and the halt and the lame, Mr. Speaker, the meek. ~cause that is what they are up to, Mr. Speaker, and nobody can deny it. Nobody there opposite can stand in his place and deny my words, deny ,what I am saying. I got up to year nine when I got carried away there a little bit about the jails.

Year nine of Confederation, the< Children's Health Plan. Mr. Sp~aker, I want Your Honour to listen to this. I am not sure if Your Honour was in Newfoundland or not. MR.WARREN: What year was that? MR.NEARY: Year nine of Confederation. That was 1957-58. AN HON.MEMBER: He · was here then. MR.NEARY: Your Honour was here then. Well, Your Honour being a member of the Medical Fraternit~ which is a very noble fraternity indeed,will recall what happened in year nine, Your Honour above anybody else,I would think~ The "£hildren's Health Care Plan started and, Mr. Speaker, it was the only one of its kind in North 3642

May 3,1983 Tape No. 1691 ah-2 MR.NEARY: America, the only one of its kind. A poor old Liberal government that should have just laid down and died, they should have given up, could not carry on, Mr. Speaker 1 they did not spend their money down making life comfortable for the criminals in this Province. Boy, they have it better than the victims. People who commit crime have it better in this Province than the victims. There is no protection for the victims. Now they are going to expand the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary right at a time, Mr. Speaker, when we can ill afford it.

While it may be a very worth~while exercise somewhere down the road,you do not expand police forces and spend taxpayer dollars replacing all the equipment and technology that the RCMP have in this Province,Because it all has to be replaced, Mr. Speaker. They are not going to take their cars and turn them over to the provincial government. They are not going to take the radios out of their cars and give them to the Minister of Justice (Mr.Ottenheimer) in this Province. They are not going to take their buildings that they have and give them to.the Minister of Justice. No, Mr.

Speaker, it is going to cost an arm and a leg 3643

.May 3, 1983 Tape No. 1692 JV - 1 MR. NEARY: at this particular point in time to expand the Newfoundland constabularly and to open jails and build courthouses and renovate courtl1ouses. They must be expecting a big business, Mr. Speaker, as a result - MR. BAIRD: All the Liberals were in there then. You cannot blame us for that. MR.

NEARY: It could be argued,! suppose, it could be argued that in a crisis, in a time when the economy is practically ruined, I suppose one could argue that there is more social unrest, that people drink more, there are more domestic squabbles and more domestic problems, that there is more theft and shoplifting because people are hungry, and when people get hungry they will do desperate things, And the reason they are hungry is because of the policies of this administration. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, what do the administration that caused this problem, what do they do?

Do they look at it in a positive way and say we are going to start new business and industry~ that we are going to negotiate an agreement on the offshore, that we are going to start the development of the Lowe~ -­ Churchill Falls? Is that what they say when they cause that problem, that cancer, that they have caused in this Province as a result of their mismanagement of the resources? Is that what they do, Mr. Speaker, start new industries; No, they decide that the best way to handle this is to build jails so that we can throw them all in jail. Mr.

Speaker, I am making what I consider to be a pretty good comparison here of Liberalism and Toryism, the difference between Liberalism and Toryism, The big difference, Mr. Speaker, Liberalism,compassionate - ,t;~-R. TULK: Social conscience - 3644

Ma y 3, 1983 Tape No. 1692 JV - 2 MR. NEARY: -social conscience, a party of the people- MR. DINN: And very few people. MR. NEARY: - Mr. Speaker, a party that did not build jails to throw people in once they created social unrest. Mr. Speaker, I heard the hon. the Premier come into this House today and he took great pride in announcing let us get the scenario now - the han. Premier came in and took great pride in making an announcement that the production at Wabusp Mines this year would be up instead of down and that there would be no down tLme. Now 1 who started the Wabush Mines? AN HON.

MEMBER: I would say that Qrl had a good hand in it. MR. NEARY: I see. Well, Mr. Speaker, the j name that the hon. gentleman just uttered happened to be the gentleman who started that mine .1:bat'the PX:~mier was so proud today,and deli.ghted,to take a little bit of credit for. 3645

May 3, 1983 AN HON. MEMBER: MR. NEARY: Tape No. 1693 SD - 1 I do not know the man, do you? I see. Now, Mr.

Speaker, in9tead of opening new mines, instead of opening new tish plants and revitilizing the fishery in this Province to try to eli1t1inat.e that social unrest that they have created as a result of their mismanagement of the resources of this Province and the economy of this province, instead of doing that, instead of saying, 'Yes, we have made blunders and mistakes and we are causing all kinds of suffering a.nd unres ·t amongst our people who are hungry, who are sending their children to school poorly clad', Mr.

Speaker, making long waiting lists for people who want to get into hospital to get surgery done, Mr. Speaker, instread of that, instead ot developing a positive plan, Mr. Speaker, build jails a.nd courthouses and get people behind ba;r-s, 'J'h .ey figure . :i:.f you can get enough - MR. WARREN: How much money did Mr .. Ryan get? MR. DINN: Nothing. Why do you not go outside the House and say it? You do n0t have t.he guts. MR. NEARY: Now, look, if th .e han. gentlema.n wants to fight would he please go down to the YM~. MR. DINN: MR. NEARY: r am answering your colleague ..

I:!; th .e Mtniste+:" of Lab:our a.nd Manpower (.Mr. Dinn} wants to scrap, would b.e :please go down . to the YMCA, or, better still, go down to t.h.e. YWCA, MR. DINN: I know the han. -Il\elt\hep doe .!;;:' not. want one, (inaudible} through the door the other day .. MR. NEARY: Mr •. Speaker, would r be . ~ l.ow as to get down and roll in the mud wi:th . th .e han. . gent .lema .n. or any other h.on. gentleman in t.his House.? Would. l. 9tOOj? so low, Mr. Speaker? SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh., oh. 3646

.:J.. May 3, 1983 Tape No. 1693 SD - 2 MR. NEARY : Nothing would give them greater pleasure, Mr. Speaker, than the Leader of the Opposition to become embroiled in fisticuffs with hon. gentlmen there opposite. But hon. gentlemen there opposite may get a little bit of a shock if they ever get the r.eader of the opposition's dander up, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear~ MR. NEARY: They may get the shock of their lives. I may have Winter in my hair but I have Summer in my heart. Now, Mr. Speaker, to come back to the argument I was making here. Mr. Speaker, I was comparing Liberal development. Now, Mr.

Speaker, the health care programme, the children's health care programme, year nine, the only one of its kind in 35 47

May 3, 1983 Tape 1694 PK - 1 MR. NEARY: North America, came into effect. Now, Mr. Speaker, just listen to this. Listen to this. Now, would you call this a reform? Would my han. friend for Port au Port (Mr. Hodder) consider this as a revolutionary m~asure? On this one item alone, Mr. Speaker, you could hang up your hat andlie down and say I have given my all to my country and to my province. AN HON. MEMBER: MR. NEARY: that all children under - MR. DINN: This is not going to be reported. Just listen, phase one provided That John C. Doyle got a dollar per ton for every ton of ore taken out of Labrador. MR.

NEARY: Now, look, Mr. Speaker, could you ask the Minister of Labour and Manpower (Mr. Dinn}, Sir, who seems to be beside himself, somebody must have touched a nerve with the han. gentleman. Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. NEARY: I do not mind being interrupted, Oh, oh! I do not mind at all being interrupted. As a matter of fact, if I had not had so many interruptions in the last four or five days I would have been finished my little talk now, my few remarks. And as long as they keep interrupting me, Mr. Speaker, I will just plough on, because what I have to say I am going to say.

Han. gentle­ men there opposite may not like it. MR. BAIRD: Well, we will have to get a shovel, it is going up to your neck. MR. WARREN: What about the unoccupied space? MR. NEARY: Oh, you mentioned the unoccupied space, well, the Auditor General knows about that. What is new about that? That is another one of their policies, when 3648

May 3, 1983 MR. NEARY: hospital beds. Tape 1694 PK - 2 they are shutting down When they are closing down hospital beds they gave their buddies, their bagmen for the party, they rent some office space from him and then do not occupy it. That is a new one, Mr. Speaker. Now, Mr. Speaker, phase one provided that all children under sixteen would receive free out-patient service in hospitals, hospital ward services, diagnostic services to children admitted to hospital. Mr. Speaker, the first in the world~ Your Honour,I believe, is from across the Atlantic.

I do not know if the medical health care programme in England,which is probably considered to be one of the finest in the world, I would imagine - I am not sure whether it is better than the one in Sweden or not, perhaps Il\Y hon. friend can tell us when he tak~s

part in the debate. But for the first time in North America a government introduced a children's health care plan right here on this poor old Island, this poor old rock. Now, Mr. Speaker, who is putting the gears to the children's health care plan and the dental plan? MR. AND~B: John C. Doyle. MR. NEARY: Well, Mr. Speaker, he must have a long gear shift between here and Panama. MR. DINN: nere long enough. ;.ffi. ANDREWS: otnd Panama. Well, you would know, he was IIe has connections between here MR. NEARY: Now, let us see what else happened in year nine. A new hospital for Carboner. 3649

May 3, 1983 Tape No. 1695 NM - 1 MR. NEARY: And the other day the Premier went over to Carbonear for a little Tory do they had over there,and decided to go down and visit the hospital. He was two hours late,but he finally got there,because the teachers were lined up waiting for the hon. gentleman to arrive. MR. BAIRD: MR. WARREN: with the teachers. MR. NEARY: testy with the teachers. MR. HOUSE: MR. WARREN: MR. HOUSE: Rod Moores was not there thouqh. Apparently he was very testy And not only that, was very Who built that hospital? What hospital are you talking about?

Did you say that the Liberals built that hospital in Carbonear? .MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I have to come back to this, while I am reminded, Mr. Speaker, this is priceless, talking about teachers. I have to read this. MR. HOUSE : You were oot talking about teachers, you . were talking about hospitals. MR. NEARY: Just listen to this, Mr. Speaker, this is a letter to the editor in today's Daily News. I want han. gentlemen there opposite to listen to this. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh: MR. NEARY: AN HON. MEMBER: MR. NEARY: Pardon? (Inaudible) make your own .decisions.

Well, han. gentlemen can keep an open mind if they want to on this letter. They can keep an open mind because I am not going to make any comment on it apart from just reading the letter for the benefit of han . gentlemen there opposite. 3650

May 3, 1983 DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. Tape No. 1695 NM..,. 2 I think he is out of order, No, I am right in order, The hon. gentlemen is out of order by interrupting me . DR. COLLINS: You are very experienced in the House, you know when you are in order and when you are not. MR. NEARY: Listen to this, Mr. Speaker. "Dear Brian: During your las.t election campaign, I" was delighted to be able to distribute your campaign literature and try to convince AN HON. MEMBER: That was written by a Liberal, he would not sign his name. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, could I have silence please?

"I was delighted to be able to ,distribute your campaign literature and try to convince voters to give you their support. However, since then, for a number of reasons, I have h..ad many doubts about the wisdom of my actions. (11 Your mismanagement of the offshore negotiations: I sincerely believe that your arrogant and stubborn stance on this issue has caused Newfoundland to lose its last chance at becoming a have province. Had you been more concilliatory, and more importantly, listened to your colleagues, 3651

May 3, 1983 Tape No. 1696 MJ - 1 MR. NEARY: in particular Mr. Leo Barry1 I think a compromising position could have been reached which would have benefited all concerned, ( 2) Your refusal to allow· the federal government to channel money into our educational system: For example, the school in which I teach may have gotten a desperately neede~ playing field, landscaping and a coat of paint. None of this will be done in the foreseeable futher because of your interference, if new legislation is required to accommodate this funding,why not introduce it? Let me go back again, 'none of this will be done in the foreseeable future·because of your interference.

(3) Your unwillingness to negotiate a contract with the NTA: We realize that this Province is not a wealthy one and that can ill-afford to put much more money into education. But, can we afford not to? Why can your government not at least sit down at the negotiating table and talk to teachers,or have the decency to say publicly that your whole objective is to save money to offset that which your government spent wastefully?

(4) Your use of municipal governments as scapegoats for your inability to handle the finances of this Province: Your government has forced municipalities to increase taxes to the point where citizens are unable to pay. I refer specifically to the 15 per cent debt charges which municipalities must pay to the provincial government as well as your reduction in the general grant to municipal governments of fifty cents per head of population to forty-f~ve cents per head. These maneouvers have. forced municipal governments to increase their taxes, and thus take the flak for you who forced them upon the people.

Because of these issues,I feel uncomfortable about having tried to help you win your last election. In fact, it is getting to the point ~·lh<>..re I feel embarrassed about having voted for you. I know this is true also for many1many 3652

May 3, 1983 Tape No. 1696 MJ - 2 MR . NEARY : of your other previous supporters . If you wish to maintain the support you got during your last election,! believe you should try to tone down your arrogant behaviour and be more like the understanding , compassi onate and likeable fellow we thought we elected . Signed Harold Payne ." Now, Mr . Spea~er, that is typical . of the attitude and the feeling of 3653

May 3, 1983 Tape 1697 EC - 1 MR. NEARY: the people throughout this Province at the present time towards the Premier and the administration. Very well put. I say, 'Hear, hear!' to Mr. Payne, who took his pen in hand of his own free will and wrote this letter and signed his name and did not care who saw it or who read it. Mr. Speaker, it is a symptom of what is happening in this Province. I do not know if Your Honour is one of the dissidents on the opposite side who is going to follow the member for Mount Scio (Mr. Barry) when he forms his own party. We hear reports that the member for Mount Scio has a following.

And, Mr. Speaker, when the hon. gentleman reads these kinds of letters in the daily newspapers, is it any wonder that he would be concerned and he would want to take a view opposite to that of his party, that he refuses to toe the party line? Is the member for Grand Bank (Mr. Matthews) going to follow the member for Mount Scio? Or is the hen. gentleman going to turn his back on his constituents just to please the Premier? I believe the hen. the member for Grand Bank would follow. MR. WARREN: MR. NEARY: Oh, yes, he is on the list. He is on the list. Mr. Speaker, I believe I have to table this document.

I would be quite happy to do so, Mr. Speaker. I will lay it on the table of the House so that if hen. gentlemen want to have copies for their constituents they can go and have them Xeroxed and sent out just to show what is happening throughout this Province. Now, getting on with Health, what happened in year nine? A new hospital was built in Carbonear. The isolation ward for children started at the General Hospital, Shea and Cowan wards remodelled at 3 6 5l•

May 3, 1983 Tape 1697 EC - 2 MR. NEARY: the General Hospital and financial assistance for a new Grace General Hospital. Year ten, phase two of the Children's Health Care programme came into effect. Under it, all children under sixteen, 3655

May 3, 1983 Tape 1698 EC - 1 MR. NEARY: the only one in North America, to receive free medical and surgical services. Not bad, Mr. Speaker, for a government that did not do anything in this Province! Old Perlican hospital was enlarged the next year. Year twelve, 1960 - 1961, Placentia hospital was enlarged - no cutbacks. Any sign of any cutbacks? Twelve years now, I am up to twelve years of a Liberal administration. This hon. crowd have been there eleven years and they have built jails, their priority is building jails and courthouses and shutting down hospital beds at the same time. And, Mr.

Speaker, here, in eleven years of Liberalism, the first eleven years of Liberalism - Mr. Speaker, I am so happy to see my colleague, my brother from Ottawa, seated in the Speaker's gallery today. Perhaps Your Honour has a note; he may wish to welcome - MR. ROBERTS: I will write the note, you carry on. MR. NEARY: Oh, he has not received the note yet. Before Your Honour has an opportunity to welcome our federal minister who spoke to the J.C.s today on ~ir-sea Rescue, Mr.

Speaker, let me say to my han, friend, no matter what he said today - and I did not hear the bon. gentleman's speech; I am told a copy is being sent to me. I am happy to hear that. I will read it in great detail, But let me say this to the han. gentleman: First of all, I want to welco .me him to this poor old Province of ours, MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! May l interrupt the han. member for one minute? 3656

May 3 , 1983 Tape 1698 EC ... 2 NR . NEARY : Sure , gs ahead . MR . SPEAKER (Ayh.rard) : It gives me great pleasure to welcome to our House of Assembly the han. Giles Lamontagne, Minister of National Defence. SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER; Opposition. Hear , hear ! Mr. Speaker. The han. the Leader of the MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, I have to say this to my han. and dear and beloved colleague from the federal Liberal Party, that no matter what he told the J.C.s today- and no doubt the han. gentleman picked and chose his words, he was careful in what he was saying and no doubt he was well received by the J.C.s who, last year, if han. members will recall, circulated a petition, I belie·ve, and took it to Ottawa to have improvements made in the Air-Sea Rescue servic.es in this Province. But no matter how hard the han. gentleman tried today, how carefully he picked his words, tomorrow or the next day we 3657

May 3, 1983 Tape No. 1699 HJ - 1 MR. NEARY: will hear hon. gentlemen there opposite condemn and criticize the federal government for lack of Air-Sea Rescue Services in this Province. I will forecast that, I will make a prediction and, Mr. Speaker, it may be before the day is over, but I can guarantee you this,that the minister may not get word of that from this Province, he may not get the newspapers or hear the radio reports,and then again he may, but I will also make the hon.]entleman another prediction,that Hr. McGrath,MP, Mr. Speaker, there is no way that you can satisfy the man. This is his pet project.

He is jealous about that. He will not let anybody else have that issue. This crowd over across the way try to climb aboard his band wagon once in awhile,but he is very jealous of it. MR. ROBERTS: him a traitor. MR. NEARY: MR. ROBERTS : him a traitor. MR. NEARY: That is when they are not calling Pard0n? That is when they are not calling That is right. When they are not calling him a traitor or saying he ~.,as the \'mrst minister Mr.

McGrath I am talking about. -Wb_en Mr • .McGrath was Minister of Fisheries for nine months not only was he a traitor but the hon. crowd said that he was the worst Fisheries Minister in Canada's whole history. MR. TOBIN: You were the worst Minister of Social Services. The 11ifflin Report tells you that, .. - . - - - all the scandal. The Hifflin Report tells you what you ,.,ere like when ycu were a member. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, :I have to say thiiS in the presence of my colleague from Ottawa, that we deeply appreciate his interest in thisYrovince. It is too bad 3658

<-1 May 3, 1983 Tape NO . 1699 IB- 2 .MR . NEARY: that we could not invite the hon . gentleman to come in on the floor of the House to address the Legislature . I suppose we could do it by mutual agreement. These things probably would have to be - and t}?.e hon . minister may be embarrassed , maybe he would not want to come in. But it would be very interesting to have the m;i.nister come in and tell us about the improvements in Air - sea Rescue in this Province and tell us the plans that they have on the table to improve the system, Mr. Speaker, in this Province. MR .

TOBIN: Tell us what you said about the fede r al departme nt yesterday. MR . NEARY: Mr . Speaker , I do not know if in the House of Commons - I have sat in the House of Commons on a number of occasions, and westminstel:' , I have bee n in every legislature, I believe, 3659

May 3, 1983 Tape No. 1700 SD - 1 MR. NEARY: every Legislature, I believe, across Canada, I believe I have, and I have been in the House of Commons in Ottawa on numerous occasions and I have been at Westminster, the Mother of Parliament, but I do not believe in all of my travels that I have found a member who is so ill-mannered as the member for Burin - Placentia West (Mr. Tobin). I have been seven weeks now trying to encourage the hon. gentleman to go out and take a course in self­ improvement, in good manners and in etiquette, Mr. Speaker. The hon. gentleman could do his constituents a big favour.

A lady I know very well down town, Mrs. McBride, is advertising a course in etiquette, good manners and self­ improvement. MR. ROBERTS: We will pay for it. MR. NEARY: And, Mr. Speaker, we would gladly take up a collection on this side of the House to pay for that course for the han. gentleman. So I am glad to see my colleague here. And I want to react to an interruption from the other side and I want to say to my hon. colleague that we are all Liberals, good, faithful, dedicated Liberals. But there comes a time, Mr. Speaker, when we have disagreements and I believe that is allowed under our democratic system. MR.

MARSHALL: (Inaudible). MR. NEARY: MR ~ MARSHALL : MR. NEARY: Pardon? When have you ever had a disagreement? Yesterday I expressed some criticism of the way that Mr. De Bane is being treated as federal Minister of Fisheries. I am not at all happy and while the minister is here, I do not want to embarrass him, he may as well hear what we have to say, what w~ think as Liberals in this Province about appointing a minister in name only and then giving his duties and his responsibilities to an bureaucrat. 3660

May 3, 1983 Tape No. 1700 SD - 2 MR. ROBERTS: MR. NEARY: You are not speaking of this minister? No, not this minister. This minister, I do not think, · would not stand for it. MR. MORGAN: Mr. De Bane is the best minister they have ever had. MR. NEARY: He is a good man, I like him. I like the federal Minister of Fisheries (Mr. De Bane). I think he is a great man. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh. MR. NEARY: Well, Mr.Speaker, I have to agree with han. gentlemen there opposite that Mr. De Bane is a fine gentleman and he means well. MR. MORGAN: Hear, hear. MR.

NEARY: And I think if he was left alone that he would do a job for the fisheries in Atlantic Canada. But, Mr. Speaker, the time has come to terminate the mandate of that super-bureaucrat who is knocking the legs out from under the federal Minister of Fisheries. Now,no doubt I will be criticized by han. gentlemen there opposite. They will say, 'Well,you are all the same Party'. Well, if we cannot have a disagreement within our own Party, what kind of a courtry are we living in, Mr. Speaker? Why can we not have a disagreement?

I am one of these people who do not agree under the parliamentary system, the British parliamentary system of governmen .t, that a minister should be dedicated to, should 3661

May 3, 1983 Tape 1701 PK - 1 MR. NEARY: have his responsibilities and his duties taken over by a bureaucrat or a Cabinet Committee. I do not agree with that. If I were a minister in a government that did that I would turn in my badge, I would not put up with it. And I say that, Mr. Speaker, not that I want the hon. gentleman to take it back to Ottawa but I am merely illustrating that there can be differences between provincial parties and federal parties. If the system did not work that way, Mr. Speaker, we may as well all move to Russia and live. That is what that crowd over there would like.

So everytime we mention something, a little bit of criticism of Ottawa, of something we do not like, maybe a break down in communications, well, Mr. Speaker, they do not like to hear it because, I guess, we are kind of stealing their march on them. So I want the minister to report back to his colleagues that down here we are good Liberals, that we want to see a Liberal government re-elected in Canada and that we will do everything in our power, Mr. Speaker, as a provincial Liberal Party to send back six Liberal~MPs to Ottawa and help elect a Liberal Government. MR.

MORGAN: Why did you attack the Federal Minister of Fisheries (Mr. De Bane) yesterday? MR. NEARY: I certainly did not attack him. MR. MORGAN: MR. NEARY: You did attack him. I certainly did not. Is the hon. gentleman saying that because I asked that the Federal Minister of Fisheries reassess his position within the Federal Cabinet, does he interpret that as an attack on the federal minister? MR. MORGAN: resign. MR. NEARY: he resign. Yesterday you demanded that he I certainly did not demand that 3662

May 3, 1983 Tape 1701 PK - 2 MR . ·MORGAN : Yes , you did on CBC, a radio broadcast in the morning . MR . NEARY : I certainly did not . MR. TOBIN: You said any minister worth his salt should resign. MR . NEARY : I said that the minister should reassess his position within .the Federal Cabinet. MR . TOBIN : You said he shou ld resign . MR. ANDREWS : And Simmons should resign, and Rompkey . !-1R . NEARY: Now, !-tr. Speaker, I do not know if they have the same ruckus in the Bouse of Commons as we have here . It is very difficult to make a speech. It is very , very diffi cu lt indeed. SOME BON . MEMBERS : Oh , oh !

MR . SPEAKER (Aylward) : Order, pleas e! MR . mARY: M.r. Speaker , it is very difficult to make a speech in th is Bouse without being rudely interrupted by hon . gentlemen there opposite . 3663 ~

May 3,1983 Tape No. 1702 ah-1 MR. NEARY: I recall one day recently, only about ten days ago - and this has to be a record­ one member of the government benches was called to order by the Chair thirty times in one afternoon. Mr.Speaker, that has to be some kind of a record. If the Guiness Book of World Records could get hold of that the han. member for Burin-Placentia West (Mr.Tobin) would make a mark in politics for breaking the rules of this han. House. Now, Mr. Speaker, I am glad to see the hon. · gentleman here now.

I was dealing with eleven years of Toryism . compared to eleven years of Liberalism, the first eleven years of Confederation, in the development of health care and I was showing the difference between the philosophy, the ideology of the Liberal party and the Tory party. In eleven years of Toryism all they are doing is shutting down hospital beds, cutting back health services. And while they are doing this, shutting down hospital beds in every hospital in Newfoundland and waiting lists for people wanting to get in for emergency surgery are the length of the floor of this House, the han. Minister of Health (Mr.

House) tells us nobody is suffering as a result of this gross mismanagement on the part of this administration, Mr. Speaker. MR.HOUSE: listening to you. MR. NEARY: Not as bad as I am suffering And while they are doing this they are opening jails, they are building jails and courthouses. Now, Mr.Speaker, I have shown members what the Liberal government did in the first eleven years of Confederation and now I am going on to year twelve. MR.TOBIN: The people on Social Assistance, you tried to starve them to death. Do not tell me I worked for social services. You are the fellow who said let them starve.

I know what you did for the people on Social Assistance. 3664

May 3,1983 Tape No. 1702 ah -2 MR .NEARY: Yes, the hon . member for Burin -Placentia West (Mr .Tobin), when he was a social worker, said let them starve . MR . TOBIN : for me . MR.NEARY: That is why they all voted That was the bon . gentleman 's policy, let them starve . 'We have no bread , give them cake .' 3665

May 3, 1983 Tape No. 1703 NM - 1 MR. TOBIN: There is no Mifflin Report about it. Any decent man would have resigned. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, here it is, year twelve, ~lacentia Hospital enlarged; financial assistance to St. Clare's, new School of Nursing and for the Nurses' Residence; cobalt therapy unit began to operate in General Hospital; new diagnostic wing operating in General Hospital; new airplane ambulance began to operate; larger airplane ambulance provided for St. Anthony Hospital; new airplane ambulance provided for North west River Hospital.

Year thirteen, Gander Hospital opened; nurses' home at the General Hospital opened. MR. BAIRD: Wait until you come up to 1971 and see what you have to say. MR. HISCOCK: They have cancelled the Nursing Assistants' Training Programme. MR. NEARY: That is the comparison I ~-making between the Liberal years and the Tory years. Under a Liberal regime everything was developing, building, opening: Eleven yeqrs of Toryism, everything closing down, highest taxes in Canada, record unemployment,the highest cost of living, worst unemployment since the Depression and close down hospital beds right, left and centre. Mr.

Speaker, let me come to a very important matter, a very important matter indeed. In 1962-63, year fourteen of Confederation, could han. members there opposite tell this House what major development took place in the fielq of health in this Province? I will give them all a guess. Could han. gentlemen there opposite, and there are about fifteen or eighteen or twenty of them over there now, could han. gentlemen 3666

~- May 3, 1983 Tape No . 1703 NM - 2 MR. NEARY: tell this House what great Liberal development took place in the field of healtb improvement in this Province in the years 1962/6 3? Nmv the Minister of Health (Mr. House) surely should be able to - MR . BARRY: Th~ minister resigned. MR. NEARY: Well, if he did he had more courage than the member for Mount Scio (Mr. Barry) has to snipe at his colleagues. The hon. gentleman was nd:lt in the House the other day when I used that quotation from Winston Churchill. I said either his colleagues respond 3667

May 3, 1983 Tape 1704 EC - 1 MR. NEARY: to his good sense, or the member must carry his good sense to its logical conclusion. And to quote the late Winston Churchill: "Crying ineffectively in a wilderness is bad politics and is self-defeating." And, as I said, I am sure the han. gentleman's ambitions are a little higher than that. So, Mr. Speaker, if I were the hon. gentleman, I would not shout nasty remarks across the House about resigning. Mr.

Speaker, can any han. lady or gentleman there opposite tell this House what great Liberal reform, what revolutionary idea, took place in this Province in year fourteen of Confederation in the field of health care development? Can the Minister of Education (Ms Verge), who once made a statement publicly that Mr. Smallwood was a crook and they were all crooks associated with Mr. Smallwood 1 could that minister tell this House what great reform this crook introduced in this Province in year fourteen of Confederation? MR. BAIRD: They T.tTere not crooks , they just handled the taxpayers' money awkwardly. MR.

NEARY: Well, perhaps, Mr. Speaker, those there opposite who have less hair than I do, who are a little older, perhaps they can remember, perhaps they can recall what happened in year fourteen of Confederation. Perhaps han. gentlemen there opposite who are shedding their coats, getting a little thin on the top side, getting over the hill - perhaps the han. gentleman, the President of the Council (Mr. Marshall) who, I believe - no, he was not in the House then. What happened in the development of health care? Well, listen to this, Mr. Speaker. What I am about to announce now, Mr.

Speaker, what I am about to say, on this one project alone, any government would be entitled 3668

May 3,1983 Tape No. 1705 IB-1 MR.NEARY: to be re-elected, would be entitled to stay in power forever, would be entitled to all the praise and accolades that you could muster in this Province. Any government who just carried out this one project alone - MR.HOUSE: It must have been Medicare. MR.NEARY: No, it is not Medicare. I will give the hon. gentleman three guesses. He has had one. I am not talking about Medicare, that other great Liberal reform. This one project alone, Mr.Speaker - MR. STAGG: Mothers' allowance. MR.NEARY: No, not mothers' allowance.

Would the Minister of Municipal Affairs (Mrs Newhook) care to take a guess? The Minister of Municipal Affairs, being of the same vintage, I would think, as Mr. Smallwood might want to make a guess. MR. ANDREWS : MR. NEARY: The resettlement programme. Mr . Speaker·, han. gentlemen cannot guess? Mr. Speaker, _perhaps the member for St. John's North (Mr.Carter), who does not have a good word - MR.HICKEY: Mothers' allowance. MR. NEARY: No not mothers' allowance but I will give the hon. gentleman credit for trying. MR