Manitoba Hansard — 22 April 2021 (Sitting 54B, 42nd Legislature, 3rd Session)

42-3-54b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session – Forty-Second Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Myrna Driedger Speaker Vol. LXXV No. 54B - 1:30 p.m., Thursday, April 22, 2021 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-Second Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ADAMS, Danielle Thompson NDP ALTOMARE, Nello Transcona NDP ASAGWARA, Uzoma Union Station NDP BRAR, Diljeet Burrows NDP BUSHIE, Ian Keewatinook NDP CLARKE, Eileen, Hon. Agassiz PC COX, Cathy, Hon. Kildonan-River East PC CULLEN, Cliff, Hon. Spruce Woods PC DRIEDGER, Myrna, Hon. Roblin PC EICHLER, Ralph, Hon. Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne, Hon. Lac du Bonnet PC FIELDING, Scott, Hon. Kirkfield Park PC FONTAINE, Nahanni St. Johns NDP FRIESEN, Cameron, Hon. Morden-Winkler PC GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib.

GOERTZEN, Kelvin, Hon. Steinbach PC GORDON, Audrey, Hon. Southdale PC GUENTER, Josh Borderland PC GUILLEMARD, Sarah, Hon. Fort Richmond PC HELWER, Reg, Hon. Brandon West PC ISLEIFSON, Len Brandon East PC JOHNSON, Derek, Hon. Interlake-Gimli PC JOHNSTON, Scott Assiniboia PC KINEW, Wab Fort Rouge NDP LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAGIMODIERE, Alan Selkirk PC LAMONT, Dougald St. Boniface Lib. LAMOUREUX, Cindy Tyndall Park Lib.

LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas-Kameesak NDP LINDSEY, Tom Flin Flon NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Malaya Notre Dame NDP MARTIN, Shannon McPhillips PC MICHALESKI, Brad Dauphin PC MICKLEFIELD, Andrew Rossmere PC MORLEY-LECOMTE, Janice Seine River PC MOSES, Jamie St. Vital NDP NAYLOR, Lisa Wolseley NDP NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC PALLISTER, Brian, Hon. Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine, Hon. Midland PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Turtle Mountain PC REYES, Jon Waverley PC SALA, Adrien St. James NDP SANDHU, Mintu The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron, Hon.

Springfield-Ritchot PC SMITH, Andrew Lagimodière PC SMITH, Bernadette Point Douglas NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Vérendrye PC SQUIRES, Rochelle, Hon. Riel PC STEFANSON, Heather, Hon. Tuxedo PC TEITSMA, James Radisson PC WASYLIW, Mark Fort Garry NDP WHARTON, Jeff, Hon. Red River North PC WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC

2647 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Thursday, April 22, 2021 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Mr. Deputy Speaker (Doyle Piwniuk): Good afternoon, everyone. Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS Mr. Deputy Speaker: Introduction of bills? COMMITTEE REPORTS Mr. Deput y Speaker: The honourable member for Waverley (Mr. Reyes). Can the honourable member for Waverley unmute his mic? The honourable member for Selkirk. Standing Committee on Justice Fifth Report Mr. Alan Lagimodiere (Chairperson): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I wi sh to present the fifth report of the Standing Committee on Justice. Clerk (Ms.

Patricia Chaychuk): Your Standing Committee on Justice– Some Honourable Members: Dispense. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Dispense. Your Standing Committee on Justice presents the following as its Fifth Report. Meetings Your Committee met on April 21, 2021 at 6:00 p.m. in Room 255 of the Legislative Building. Matters under Consideration • Bill (No. 5) – The Liquor, Gaming and Cannabis Control Am endment Act (Cannabis Social Responsibility Fee) / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la réglementation des alcools, des jeux et du cannabis (taxe de responsabilité sociale en matière de cannabis) • Bill (No. 6) – The Liquor, Gaming and Cannabis Control Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la réglementation des alcools, des jeux et du cannabis • Bill (No. 60) – The Liquor, Gaming and Cannabis Control Amendment Act (2) / Loi no 2 modifiant la

Loi sur la réglementation des alcools, des jeux et du cannabis • Bill (No. 213) – The Reporting of Supports for Child Survivors of Sexual Assault Act (Trained Health Professionals and Evidence Collection Kits) /

Loi sur la p résentation de rapports concernant les mesures de soutien destinées aux enfants survivants d'agression sexuelle (professionnels de la santé formés et trousses médicolégales) Committee Membership As per the Sessional Order passed by the House on October 7, 2020 and further amended on December 3, 2020, Rule 83(2) was waived for the April 21, 2021 meeting, reducing the membership to six Members (4 Government and 2 Official Opposition). • Ms. FONTAINE • Hon. Mr. FRIESEN • Hon. Ms. GORDON • Mr. ISLEIFSON • Mr. LAGIMODIERE (Chairperson) • Ms. LATHLIN Your Committee elected Mr.

ISLEIFSON as the Vice-Chairperson. Non-Committee Members Speaking on Record • Hon. Mr. GERRARD Public Presentations Your Committee heard the following two presen- tations on Bill (No. 213) – The Reporting of Supports for Child Survivors of Sexual Assault Act (Trained Health Professionals and Evidence Collection Kits) /

Loi sur la présentation de rapports concernant les mesures de soutien destinées aux enfants survivants d'agression sexuelle (profession nels de la santé formés et trousses médicolégales): Garrison Settee, Grand Chief, Manitoba Keewatinowi Okimakanak Inc. Renee Kastrukoff, The Pas Family Resource Centre – Minisewin Waska Bills Considered and Reported • Bill (No. 5) – The Liquor, Gaming and Cannabis Control Amendment Act (Cannabis Social Responsibility Fee) / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la réglementation des alcools, des jeux et du cannabis (taxe de responsabilité sociale en matière de cannabis)

2648 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 22, 2021 Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. • Bill (No. 6) – The Liquor, Gaming and Cannabis Control Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la réglementation des alcools, des jeux et du cannabis Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. • Bill (No. 60) – The Liquor, Gaming and Cannabis Control Amendment Act (2) / Loi no 2 modifiant la

Loi sur la réglementation des alcools, des jeux et du cannabis Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. • Bill (No. 213) – The Reporting of Supports for Child Survivors of Sexual Assault Act (Trained Health Professionals and Evidence Collection Kits) /

Loi sur la présentation de rapports concernant les mesures de soutien destinées aux enfants survivants d'agression sexuelle (professionnels de la santé formés et trousses médicolégales) Your Committee agreed to report this Bill with the following amendment: THAT Cl ause 8 of the Bill be replaced with the following: Coming into force 8 This Act comes into force on a day to be fixed by proclamation. Mr. Lagimodiere: I move, seconded by the member from Brandon East, that the report of the committee be received. Motion agreed to. Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development Ninth Report Mr.

Jon Reyes (Chairperson): I wish to present the ninth report of the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development. Clerk: Your Standing Committee on Social and Economic– Some Honourable Members: Dispense. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Dispense. Your Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development presents the following as its Ninth Report. Meetings Your Committee met on April 21, 2021 at 6:00 p.m. in Room 254 of the Legislative Building. Matters under Consideration • Bill (No. 3) – The Public Service Act /

Loi sur la fonction publique • Bill (No. 12) – The Crown Land Dispositions Act (Various Acts Amended) /

Loi sur les aliénations de terres domaniales (modification de diverses dispositions législatives) Committee Membership As per the Sessional Order passed by the House on October 7, 2020 and further amended on December 3, 2020, Rule 83(2) was waived for the April 21, 2021 meeting, reducing the membership to six Members (4 Government and 2 Official Opposition). • Mr. BRAR • Hon. Mr. EICHLER • Hon. Mr. HELWER • Mr. LINDSEY • Mr. MARTIN • Mr. REYES Your Committee elected Mr. REYES as the Chairperson. Your Committee elected Mr. MARTIN as the Vice - Chairperson. Non-Committee Members Speaking on Record • Mr.

LAMONT Public Presentations Your Committee heard the following three presentations on Bill (No. 3) – The Public Service Act /

Loi sur la fonction publique: Kevin Rebeck, Manitoba Federation of Labour Bruce Gammon, Legal Aid Manitoba Michelle Gawronsky, Manitoba Government and General Employees' Union Your Committee heard the following eight presentations on B ill (No. 12) – The Crown Land Dispositions Act (Various Acts Amended) /

Loi sur les aliénations de terres domaniales (modification de diverses dispositions législatives): Evan Balzer, Private Citizen Ian Robson, Private Citizen Anastasia Fyk, National Farmers Union Bill Uruski, Private Citizen Chief Glenn Hudson, Peguis First Nations

April 22, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2649 Tom Nevakshonoff, Private Citizen Dean Harder, Private Citizen Don Sullivan, Private Citizen Written Submissions Your Committee rec eived the following written submission on Bill (No. 12) – The Crown Land Dispositions Act (Various Acts Amended) /

Loi sur les aliénations de terres domaniales (modification de diverses dispositions législatives): Constance Menzies, Private Citizen Bills Considered and Reported • Bill (No. 3) – The Public Service Act /

Loi sur la fonction publique Your Committee agreed to report this Bill with the following amendments. THAT Clause 64(5) of the Bill be amended by striking out "not represented by a bargaining agent (as that term is defined in The Labour Relations Act) or excluded from a bargaining unit". THAT the following be added after Clause 64(6) of the Bill: Exception–appeal to commission 64(6.1) Subsection (6) does not apply to a reference to the former Act or a specific provision of it in relation to an appeal that is commenced after the coming into force of this

section under a collective agreement described in that subsection. For greater certainty, a provision of the collective agreement that provides for an appeal to The Civil Service Commission is of no force and effect and The Labour Relations Act applies instead. Reference to commission in collective agreement 64(6.2) Despite subsection (6) but subject to subsection (6.1), any reference to The Civil Service Commission in a collective agreement entered into before the coming into force of this

section is deemed to refer to the Public Service Commissioner appointed under subsection 26(1) of this Act. • Bill (No. 12) – The Crown Land Dispositions Act (Various Acts Amended)/Loi sur les aliénations de terres domaniales (modification de diverses dispositions législatives) Your Com mittee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. Mr. Reyes: Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable member for McPhillips (Mr. Martin), that report of the committee be received. Motion agreed to. TABLING OF REPORTS Mr. Deputy Speaker: Now we'll go on to tabling of reports.

The honourable Minister of Agriculture and Resource Development. Hon. Blaine Pedersen (Minister of Agriculture and Resource Development): It's actually him. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Oh, the honourable member for education–advanced education and learning and immigration. Hon. Wayne Ewasko (Minister of Advanced Education, Skills and Immigration): I am pleased to table the Advanced Education, Skills and Immigration 2021-2022 Main Estimates Supplement. Mr. Pedersen: I am pleased to table the Main Estimates Supplement, 2021- 2022, for Manitoba Agriculture and Resource Development. Hon.

Reg Helwer (Minister of Central Services): I am pleased to table the Estimates supplement for the Department of Central Services for the financial year 2021-22. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable Minister of Conservation and Climate. An Honourable Member: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I have another. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Oh, yes, sorry. The honourable member for Central Services, on another report. Mr. Helwer: I'm pleased to table the Estimates supplement for the Civil Service Commission for the financial year 2021-22. Hon.

Sarah Guillemard (Minister of Conservation and Climate): I am pleased to table the Estimates supplement for the Department of Conservation and Climate for financial year 2021-2022. Hon. Jeff Wharton (Minister of Crown Services): I'm pleased to table the Estimates supplement for Department of Crown Services for fiscal year '21-22.

2650 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 22, 2021 Hon. Ralph Eichler (Minister of Economic Development and Jobs): I'm pleased to table the Estimates supplement for the Department of Economic Development and Jobs, financial year 2021-22. Hon. Cliff Cullen (Minister of Education): I'm pleased to table the Estimates supplement for the Department of Education for the financial year 2021-22. Hon. Rochelle Squires (Minister of Families): I'd like to table the Estimates supplement for the Department of Families for the financial year 2021. Hon.

Scott Fielding (Minister of Finance): I'm pleased to rise today in the Assembly to table the Main Estimates 'suppsement' for 2021-22. Hon. Heather Stefanson (Minister of Health and Seniors Care): I'm pleased to table the Estimates supplement for the Department of Health and Seniors Care for financial year '21-22. Hon. Eileen Clarke (Minister of Indigenous and Northern Relations): I'm pleased to table the Estimates supplement for the Department of Indigenous and Northern Relations for the financial year 2021-22. Hon.

Ron Schuler (Minister of Infrastructure): It is my pleasure to rise today and table the Estimates supplement for the Department of Manitoba Infrastructure for the financial year 2021-2022. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Now the honourable Minister for Justice. Hon. Cameron Friesen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I'm pleased to table the Main Estimates Supplement for Manitoba Justice for the fiscal year 2021-22. Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Legislative and Public Affairs): I'm pleased to table the Estimates supplement for the Depa rtment of Legislative and Public Affairs for financial year 2021-2022. Hon.

Audrey Gordon (Minister of Mental Health, Wellness and Recovery): I'm pleased to table the Estimates supplement for the Department of Mental Health, Wellness and Recovery for the financial year 2021-2022. Hon. Derek Johnson (Minister of Municipal Relations): I'm pleased to table the Main Estimates Supplement for the Department of Municipal Relations for financial year '21-22. Hon. Cathy Cox (Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage): I am pleased to table the Estimates supplement for the Department of Sport, Culture and Heritage for the financial year 2021-22. Mr.

Deputy Speaker: Okay, we have to go back to committee reports. COMMITTEE REPORTS (Continued) Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development Ninth Report (Continued) Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable minister for Waverley on the economic development committee, if he can repeat the procedure again to –[interjection]– yes, to have a seconder who is online. Apparently, the person that you seconded wasn't on–sitting in his seat. Mr. Jon Reyes (Chairperson): I wish to present the ninth report of the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Just move the motion. Mr.

Reyes: Okay, I got you. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable member for Fort Richmond (Mrs. Guillemard), that the report of the committee be received. Mr. Deputy Speaker: It was–the honourable member for–it was –forward by the honourable member f or Waverley, seconded by the honourable member for Fort Richmond, that the committee of economic development and social development be received. [interjection] No, he said Fort Richmond. Is it –oh, it should be Portage la Prairie. The honourable member for Waverley, can you repeat 'secondaried' by the honourable member for Portage la Prairie (Mr.

Wishart). Mr. Reyes: I will, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I move, seconded by the honourable member for Portage la Prairie, that the report of the committee be received. Motion agreed to. MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS Mr. Deputy Speaker: Okay, now we'll get on to ministerial statements, and the honourable member for climate and conservation. The required 90 minutes notice has been–routine proceedings was provided in accordance with rule 26-2.

April 22, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2651 Would the honourable member –minister please proceed with the statement, the honourable member– Minister for Climate and Conservation. Earth Day Hon. Sarah Guillemard (Minister of Conservation and Climate): I rise today to make a statement celebrating Earth Day. Since the first Earth Day was organized over 50 years ago, much has changed. Top of mind is climate change. We are, of course, in the midst of the COVID-19 pandemic, but, nonetheless, we cannot forget the importance of fighting climate change and protecting nature.

This is the defining environmental challenge of our time. Earth Day is an excellent opportunity to remember what we are working towards. With the launch of our Made -in-Manitoba Climate and Green Plan, Manitoba established a five- year carbon savings account system with a one - megaton greenhouse gas reductions goal from 2018 to 2022. We are the first jurisdiction in North America to set a five-year greenhouse gas emissions reduction goal backed by a legislative governance framework. * (13:40) To support this goal and provide other green economic benefits, our government has launched a number of key initiatives.

In April 2020, Efficiency Manitoba was launched to improve energy efficiency in buildings. With this current program offerings and more on the way, Efficiency Manitoba's 2020- 2023 plan is forecasting to achieve an annual average electricity savings of 1.51 per cent and greenhouse gases emissions reductions of 140,000 tons from this natural gas savings program. Manitoba recently announced $32.3 million in funding for Efficiency Manitoba's three -year efficiency plan, which has successfully leveraged an addition $32.3 million from Canada through the Low Carbon Economy Fund.

Manitoba has taken the l ead and implemented biofuel regulations that exceed federal mandates to reduce emissions from vehicles. Over the next two years, the renewable fuel content and fuel sold in Manitoba will increase from 8.5 per cent to 10 per cent for ethanol, and from 2 per cent to 5 per cent biodiesel. These new regulations will make Manitoba the province with the highest total renewable fuels re - quirements in the country, reducing GHG emissions by approximately 100,000 tons per year.

Manitoba launched the efficiency trucking program in 2020, providing financial incentives to heavy-duty vehicle and fleet operators to install fuel saving and aerodynamic devices on trucks and trailers. Manitoba has allocated $5.9 million to support the Efficient Trucking Program and leverage the same amount from Canada. With $7 million invested in the program to date, this program will contribute to 70,000 tons of emissions reductions to Manitoba's carbon savings account and save 25.9 million litres of fuel. These technologies are being ins talled right here in Manitoba and ensure good green jobs for Manitobans.

Over the life of the equipment, over 200,000 tons of greenhouse gas emissions will be avoided. Manitoba's $102- million conservation and trust and the $108- million Gr owing Outcomes in Watersheds trust promote the conservation of natural areas or changes to land and water management, helping to both reduce emissions and mitigate against impacts of climate change. These trust funds support wetlands and other natural areas that create, conserve or enhance natural infrastructure that increase resili - ency to drought and flooding while sequestering carbon on the landscape.

Manitoba recently launched a $1 -million Green Impact Bonds, a first for our province. This innovative financial tool is being used to stimulate investment into environmental solutions to complex challenges. With this investment, Innovative NRG, a made -in- Manitoba company, will divert organic waste, such as animal byproducts and wastewater sludge through a gasification process. Over the lifetime of this initi- ative, approximately 230,000 tons of organic waste will be diverted, greenhouse gas emissions will be reduced by an estimated 90,000 tons and 22 full-time equivalent jobs will be created.

Last year our government lau nched a new Conservation and Climate Fund, providing $600,000 to organizations undertaking local green initiative that support key priorities in our Made -in-Manitoba Climate and Green Plan. This was an increase from $355,000 in grants hand- picked by the pr evious government. In the Budget 2021, our government announced that this fiscal year we have an additional one- year increase to this fund for $1 million total, supporting outcome-driven projects that reduce GHG emissions.

Looking to a future of low carbonate energy, our government is developing the framework for a new provincial energy strategy.

2652 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 22, 2021 Manitoba recognizes the necessity for a forward- looking energy strategy that sets out the Province's plan for a transition to a future with fewer fossil fuels and significantly lower greenhouse gas emissions. Manitoba's electricity grid is powered by over 99 per cent renewable electricity, and leveraging this important energy resource will help us as we take action on climate change.

We are proud that our Made-in-Manitoba Climate and Green Plan has set forth a solid plan towards greenhouse gas emissions reductions and the protection of our land, air and water, while recognizing the importance of growing Manitoba's green economy. I would also like to take a moment to give thanks to my incredible staff in the climate and green implementation office who have been helping me in achieving Manitoba's ambitious climate goals. I join all Manitobans who are celebrating Earth Day today. I encourage everyone to think of how you personally can contribute with an action of your own. Thank you, Mr.

Deputy Speaker. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Waverley (Mr. Reyes)–Wolseley, sorry. Wolseley. Ms. Lisa Naylor (Wolseley): I am so happy to rise today to wish all Manitobans a happy Earth Day. Earth Day is an annual opportunity for us to reflect on our relationship with our environment, particularly with climate change on the rise. This year's theme is Restore Our Earth, and I have been inspired by the online three -day event hosted by EARTHDAY.ORG that is bringing together people of all ages to inspire meaningful action.

We are already seeing the impacts of climate change here in Manitoba, with larger wildfires, more erratic weather and more severe droughts. Manitoba's greenhouse gas emissions are at an all -time high and are growing quickly under the Pallister government, who refuse to take the necessary actions. This government has a choice: either they can keep wasting time fighting with other levels of government or they can get on board with fighting climate change. The Premier (Mr.

Pallister) continues to waste taxpayers' dollars on lengthy court challenges, even though similar lawsuits from other provinces were recently struck down by the Supreme Court. And t he Minister of Conservation and Climate (Mrs. Guillemard) recently announced that Manitoba's climate plan is not to reduce emissions, but just to let them increase less than if we did nothing. This lack of urgency is embarrassing and Manitobas deserve a g overnment that takes the climate crisis seriously. On this side of the House we believe in fighting climate change head -on.

This includes setting real targets and taking meaningful action to reduce emissions. We believe in protecting our waters and keeping Lake Winnipeg healthy through strong investment and intergovernmental co-operation. And we believe our parks should always stay public for Manitobans to enjoy. Earth Day is fundamentally about remembering that we only have one earth. During COVID-19, many of us has discovered a new-found appreciation for our outdoor spaces, something I hope will not change post-pandemic.

A future without climate change is possible if governments rise to the challenge with ambitious targets, focused investments and meaningful action. If we take these steps now, we can preserve the beautiful province we know and love for future generations to enjoy. Once again, I'd like to wish all Manitobans a happy Earth Day and say miigwech in appreciation of Indigenous land and water protectors and thank you to all Manitobans who work to protect our earth and heal our environment. Thank you. Mr. Dougald Lamont (St. Boniface): I ask for leave to speak in response to the minister's statement. Mr.

Deputy Speaker: Is there leave to allo w the member from St. Boniface to speak on the minister's statement? [Agreed] Mr. Lamont: Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker, for the opportunity to respond to the ministerial statement on Earth Day. You know, there's something known as the camp- site rule. When you arrive at a campsite, you try to leave it better than you found it. It's a pretty simple idea with a lot of applications and the campsite rule could apply to everything and everyone, whether it's reconciliation, jobs, health care, education or our environment.

All Manitobans depend on natural resources and on nature. Farmers do not benefit from exhausted soil nor fishers from overfished lakes. We don't benefit from thinning forests or wildlife pushed to the brink

April 22, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2653 of extinction. We don't be nefit from waste, from wasting fuel, wasting water or from wasting land. Human activity has been affecting climate change–climate for the worse. We can and must choose to affect it for the better. When we face such threats to humanity and to our own children, we have a moral obligation to act. We've already seen decades of inaction, delays and outright obstruction from politicians who've put their own political fortunes ahead of the public good.

For Manitoba, this is an opportunity to lead, to grow and t o turn Manitoba's strengths to our ad- vantage for the benefit of every community in our province. Unfortunately, instead, we're seeing inaction, plans to plan on climate change and the continued destruction of wilderness, rubber-stamping projects in protected areas like rivers or projects like the Vivian Sand mine, which could irreparably contaminate one of the largest aquifers in the province. * (13:50) Putting all the monies–our money into trust funds means that money is sitting in a bank instead of driving the change we need.

Nowhere is the denial of the future more clear than in this government's mindless repetition, strictly in the present tense, that at this particular moment, Manitoba's parks are not for sale, while we know full well that in October, the government asked for a plan to sell them off in the future. Maybe tomorrow. Maybe in June. Fifty-one years ago, the great Walt Kelly said, we have met the enemy–we have seen the enemy, and it is us. Without clean water, clean air, and healthy land, what do we have? We don't have another environment to live in. We need to start acting like it. Thank you very much, Mr.

Deputy Speaker. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Manitoba 150 Award Recipients Hon. Heather Stefanson (Minister of Health and Seniors Care): I'd like to take this opportunity to congratulate three of my constituents who were the recipients of Honour 150 presented by Canada Life as part of the Manitoba 150 celebrations. Dr. Ernest Cholakis is the founder of Cholakis Dental Group. Over his 40- year career, Dr. Cholakis has led the way in educating parents and children from all backgrounds about the importance of oral hygiene and healthy habits. Dr. Cholakis is also passionate about arts and culture.

Since joining the Winnipeg Art Gallery board of governors as chair, he has been a part of numerous WAG projects, including Qaumajuq, which show - cases the largest collection of contemporary Inuit art in the world. Gunvor Larsson is 97 years young and is a trail - blazer for the growth and recognition of Swedish cul- ture in Manitoba. Since immigrating to Canada in 1958. She has taught Swedish, owned an import store and has written cookbooks featuring traditional Swedish recipes that have been sold across Canada. Over the years, Mrs.

Larsson has hosted countless fikas–Swedish for coffee and cake break–to welcome Swedish students and hockey players to Winnipeg. She also continues to volunteer at Folklorama 50 years after being one of its founding members. Karyn Lazareck is a champion for youth and social, inte llectual and developmental disabil - ities. Her leadership saw the formation of a Steering Committee for Persons with Disabilities in the Jewish Community. Ms. Lazareck was also instrumental in estab - lishing a life skills program called Gaining Resources Our Way, also known as GROW, which supports Manitobans with special needs.

I'd like to sincerely congratulate these three most deserving individuals who have all impacted so many lives within our community and our province. To all Honour 150 recipients, t hank you. Manitoba would not be the same if not for your tireless dedication to the people of our province. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Ma Mawi Wi Chi Itata Mrs. Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): I am proud to rise today and recognize Ma Mawi Wi Chi Itata for their leadership in the community throughout this pandemic.

They have a caring and compassionate team that have been working hard to support families during this difficult time. Ma Mawi's 445 King St. location recently became a [inaudible] site. This site offers over 200 tests per day to people who are symptomatic and to those who need to be tested before travelling to a northern community. Ma Mawi provides wraparound services

2654 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 22, 2021 by having staff on hand to help individuals who test positive with self-isolation plans and other supports to alleviate stress and help keep families safe. Indigenous Manitobans are overrepresented in COVID-19 cases, as of last week making up 59 per cent of active cases in the province while only 18 per cent of the total population. Having this testing site available at a trusted community organization will help limit the spread of COVID -19 in Winnipeg's urban Indigenous community.

By offering services like child care, transportation and food, Ma Mawi is making it easier for those who test positive to isolate while still supporting their families. Ma Mawi's McGregor location has recently became a vaccination site. Executive director Diane Redsky is calling on the government to prioritize Point Douglas for vaccinations, as we've been recently hard hit by this pandemic. Ma Mawi is also advo- cating for entire households to be vaccinated at once, rather than only using age -based criteria. This will help protect families and limit generational trans - mission, and we support them in this call.

Most importantly, we all need to get vaccinated as soon as possible. I was able to get my first dose on Sunday and I encourage all Manitobans to get theirs as soon as they are eligible. Please join me in thanking the entire team at Ma Mawi for their dedication to provide –protecting our community and keeping our families safe. Miigwech. Tick Season Mr. Dennis Smook (La Vérendrye): Spring is here, but judging from the weather we experienced last week, one may question Mother Nature about that. With spring comes tick season.

Earlier this month my son and I were walking in some tall grass, and we can confirm that the ticks are out there. With ticks comes the possibility of tick -borne diseases such as anaplasmosis , babesiosis and Lyme disease. We are all aware of the serious consequences those diseases can have on humans. In Manitoba, we have several species of ticks, but only one that is known for spreading tick- borne diseases to humans: that is the deer tick or the black - legged tick. These diseases are relatively new to Manitoba, but every year the number of cases con - tinues to rise.

With more and more Manitobans exploring nature and Manitoba's great outdoors, it is important that Manitobans educate themselves on the different varieties of ticks in Manitoba. In order to help identify the different varieties of ticks, Manitoba has recently joined the eTick plat - form. This program developed by Bishop's University and funded by the Public Health Agency of Canada will ensure Manitobans can ac cess rapid tick iden - tification. When you find a tick, you can submit a picture to have the tick identified by experts.

A new mobile app has been developed to facili - tate and streamline the submission of tick obser - vations. It is available for free downloa d under the App Store, Google Play store or directly on the eTick website at www.etick.ca/. Manitoba is full of great outdoor adventures, and I wish everyone a safe and enjoyable tick-free season and a great outdoors. Thank you very much. [interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Maurice Allard Mr. Jamie Moses (St. Vital): These past 14 months during the pandemic, small businesses in St. Vital have gone through incredible changes in the way that they operate.

I thank all the small-business owners and their employees who are facing these challenges. The Old St. Vital BIZ provided $675 each to their 150 member businesses, totalling $100,000 of financial assistance through their economic recovery recognition program. Thank you to the Old St. Vital BIZ board–and supporting our local business and community during these difficult times. I want to also take this opportunity to recognize the retirement of Maurice Allard, the executive director of the Old St. Vital BIZ. Mr.

Allard says he will miss the pe ople and the relationships he has developed over the years and that being known by name in the mayor's office wasn't a bad thing either. A highlight for him during his time at the BIZ has been the St. Vital Watershed project. Working with actual canoes, altered and stood on end, local artist Collin Zipp replaced the branding with historical neighbourhood references to the 1820 Métis settle - ment and dates marking the levels of Winnipeg's great floods. Mr. Allard shared that during his time, a successful move from 604 St Mary's was made to a more modern and efficient office space.

April 22, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2655 Mr. Allard has gone above and beyond in his job description as executive director, being on call 24- 7 and constantly looking for graffiti or rent signs in the area to stay on top of. He leaves the BIZ with memories of truly enjoyable times. His departing words of wisdom for the next executive director is to be willing to do anything, anytime to benefit the Old St. Vital BIZ. Thank you, Mr. Allard, for your many years of dedicated service to improving St. Vital and the wider community. Thank you. Prix Ronald Duhamel Mr. Dougald Lamont (St.

Boniface): Je suis ravi de prendre la parole aujourd'hui pour rendre hommage au lauréat du Prix Ron Duhamel. Institué en mars 2005, le Prix Ronald-Duhamel vise à reconnaître un ou une employé(e), ou un groupe d'employés, œuvrant dans le secteur publi c ou parapublic à l'échelle fédérale, provinciale ou municipale et s'étant distingué au service de la Francophonie au Manitoba.

Remis tous les deux ans, le Prix est une initiative conjointe de la Société de la francophonie manitobaine, du gouvernement fédéral, du Secrétariat provincial aux affaires francophones et de l'Association des municipalités bilingues du Manitoba, ou AMBM. * (14:00) Le dernier lauréat du prix est M. Michel Loiselle, agent principal de développement économique, Diversification de l'économie de l'Ouest du Canada.

Au cours des 18 derniers mois, Michel Loiselle a mené une vaste initiative de consultation de la communauté francophone, qui a permis de mieux comprendre ses besoins et ses intérêts dans le domaine du développement économique. Les efforts de M. Loiselle ont abouti à une variété de projets différents répondant aux besoins des communautés concernées, allant des programmes et soutiens pour les entreprises et l'employabilité à l'entrepreneuriat chez les jeunes, en passant par la promotion et la–l'inclusion d'artistes francophones et au sein des industries culturelles du Manitoba.

Ces contributions importantes au développement économique de la francophonie de notre province témoignent du rôle de Michel Loiselle en tant que promoteur et défenseur de la communauté franco - phone du Manitoba. En tant que député de Saint-Boniface, je ne cesse d'être étonné et impressionné par le dévouement, la passion et le travail acharné de mes électeurs, ainsi que par leurs contributions extraordinaires à notre collectivité, à notre ville, à notre province, à notre pays et à la francophonie. Félicitations et merci à M. Loiselle.

Translation It is my pleasure to rise today to pay homage to the winner of the Ronald- Duhamel Award. Created in 2005, this award recognizes an employee or a group of employees of a governmental or quasi -govern- mental body at the federal, provincial or municipal level, for their distinguished service to the Franco- phone community in Manitoba. This biennial Award is a joint initiativ e of the Société de la francophonie manitobaine, the Federal Government, the Manitoba Francophone Affairs Secretariat, and the Manitoba Association of Bilingual Municipalities (AMBM). The most recent winner of the award is Mr.

Michel Loiselle, senior bus iness officer, Western Economic Diversification Canada. For the past 18 months, Mr. Loiselle has led an extensive public engagement initiative with the francophone community that has resulted in a better understanding of its needs and interests in the realm of economic development. Mr.

Loiselle's efforts have culminated in a variety of different projects responding to the needs of the involved communities, ranging from programs and supports for businesses and employability, youth entrepreneurship, to the promotion and inclusion of francophone artists within Manitoba's cultural industries These significant contributions to the economic development of our province's Francophone com - munity are evidence of Michel Loiselle's role as a promoter and defender of Manitoba's Francophonie. As the member for St.

Boniface, I am always amazed and impressed by the dedication, passion and hard work of my constituents, as well as by their extra- ordinary contributions to our community, our city, our province, our country and the francophone com - munity. I extend my congratulations and my thanks to Mr. Loiselle.

2656 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 22, 2021 ORAL QUESTIONS Mr. Deputy Speaker: Time for oral questions. Surgery Wait Times Nurse Staffing Levels Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Well, happy Earth Day to all of us and to our mother, the Earth. We know that the 1,300 nursing positions that sit vacant right now are having an impact far beyond emergency departments in Winnipeg. It's impacting the lives of 10,000 Manitobans who are waiting for surgeries as well. Now, the wait -list has not been moving; people are continuing to live in pain, and now we know why.

At the Health Sciences Centre, they are short 95 surgical nurses. That's 95 nurses less than they should have in the surgery departm ent. It means a 19 per cent vacancy rate for surgeries at the HSC, the centre of so much health care in our province. That's less care at the bedside and it explains why Manitobans are waiting so long. When will the First Minister hire more nurses to make sure people get the surgeries they need? Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Deputy Premier): Of course, this minister and our government has been hiring more nurses, but this is a long-standing issue. I refer back to a newspaper

article entitled, Manitoba facing nursing crunch. This was just from a few years ago, and it was Karen Sadler, president of the St. Boniface nursing union, who said, we still have huge issues in critical care and lots of spaces to fill when it comes to nurses. The then- minister, Theresa Oswald, said, we've been planning in earnest for this in years. The bottom line is, we know it's a concern and we're trying to find an answer, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. [interjection] Order. Mr.

Kinew: I'll table the documents for the benefit of the minister. I know the First Minister won't read them, but perhaps the member for Steinbach will. What it shows is that the situation is getting worse by the day under this government, and it's because of their cuts–cuts that they all stand in solidarity with at the Cabinet table, I would add. It meant 11 per cent fewer nurses–before the pan- demic–than are required to meet our basic health-care needs. So things were getting bad under the PCs at the start of the pandemic, but that 11 per cent vacancy rate has now grown to 14.7 per cent as we meet here today.

Things are getting worse: fewer nurses at the bedside. How does the Premier (Mr. Pallister) plan to address the surgery backlog without first addressing the staffing shortage? Mr. Goertzen: Not only $750 million more invested than the NDP ever did, but, of course, we know, as confirmed by Theresa Oswald, that the challenges with nurses started under the NDP. And what did that result in, Mr. Deputy Speaker?

It was only a few years ago that Sharon Blady then said, well, there's no magic wand on the issue of trying to get patients from ambulances into hospital, because there was an average of 78 minutes wait to g et a patient from an ambulance, once they arrived at the hospital, actually into the hospital. More than an hour sitting in an ambulance after they'd been rushed to a hospital: that's the legacy of the NDP. It's not an Etch A Sketch where you just shake it and try to get your record to disappear, Sir. [interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Order. Order.

The honourable Opposition Leader, on a final supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: Well, it's much longer than a 78- minute wait to try and find a PC who will face the facts that their cuts are causing damages to our health -care system. In fact, we're still waiting for a minister who would look at the FIPPA document that proves there are now 1,300 nursing positions vacant.

And it's not just that that's s uch a huge number that's impacting surgeries–10,000 Manitobans on that surgery wait-list, by the way –it's not just that that's leading to hallway medicine making a comeback in Manitoba, those stories of seniors waiting five days in a hallway. The is sue is that it's getting worse day by day each day that the PCs are in office. When will they admit that their plan for health care is a failure and that they have to start hiring nurses now? Mr. Goertzen: Well, Mr. Deputy Speaker, of course we are hiring nurses to try to fix their mess. Of course,

April 22, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2657 Theresa Oswald acknowledged that this started under the NDP and there was negative impacts. Ambulances had to wait outside ERs in Winnipeg for more than an hour, and patients couldn't get into the hospitals. And then, when they got into the hospitals, not only could they not find nurses, Mr. Deputy Speaker, but what did they do? They then sent the patients home, before they were ready, in a taxicab. Now, I know the member opposite has some experience with taxicabs, but I will say, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, that one of the daughters of one of the people–of the mothers who got sent home in a taxicab before they were ready said, they just shoved her in a taxicab and sent her home. So, the ambulances waited outside the hospital. There were no nurses inside. And then, when they wanted to get rid of them, they put them in a taxicab. That's the NDP record. They can't run away from it, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a different question. Churchill River Diversion Project Duty to Consult First Nations Mr.

Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Why are there fewer nurses today in Manitoba than there was when they took office? The Premier (Mr. Pallister) has a very important decision to make, upcoming, when it comes to the Churchill River Diversion Project and the final licence. Now, despite the ongoing environmental im- pacts and many impacts on surrounding communities, the Premier seems to have fal len short on his duty to consult with these affected First Nations communities.

Now, we know that the O -Pipon-Na-Piwin and Tataskweyak communities are those that have been amongst the most harmed, amongst other Cree com - munities in the North and Anishinabe communities in the Interlake. It's time that we all work to fix the impacts of the past so that we can ensure a bright future for Manitoba Hydro. Will the Premier work with the communities impacted by the Churchill River Diversion Project to ensure t hat they have a meaningful say in its operations before issuing the final licence? Hon.

Sarah Guillemard (Minister of Conservation and Climate): Our government continues to work with various stakeholders, including Indigenous communities, as we look for a cleaner and greener province in this country. And, Mr. Deputy Speaker, we will continue to engage with our stakeholders as we look at long- term economic growth within the province, as well. Thank you. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: Indigenous nations are not stakeholders, they are rights holders.

When we're talking about the O-Pipon-Na-Piwin and the Tataskweyak Cree nations, not only are we talking about communities that hold rights in the territories where Hydro is carrying out their oper - ations, they're also communities that have been impacted by developments over the course of the history of Manitoba Hydro's operations in our great province. Now, we know that there is an inflection point coming up in which we could address some of these wrongs. And it's coming with the Churchill River Diversion Project and the Augmented Flow Program coming up for that final licence.

Now, consultation would help to address the concerns of the communities. They have a few spe - cific asks, key among them is to have a meaningful say in the Churchill River Diversion Project. Will the Premier (Mr. Pallister) ensure that they have that meaningful say on an ongoing basis prior to the final licence being issued? * (14:10) Mrs. Guillemard: I appreciate the question, and this has been an ongoing consultation process of over nine years. And, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, we will continue to consult, we will continue to listen and ultimately make what's i n the best –decisions in the best interests of Manitobans, as we have done since we became government. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary ques - tion. Mr. Kinew: What is in the best interests of Manitobans is to ensure that the communities, the nations of O-Pipon-Na-Piwin, Tataskweyak and other Hydro-affected First Nations have a meaningful say in the operations of Hydro and the Churchill River Diversion.

2658 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 22, 2021 Now, we know the impacts have been severe, impacts on culture. Unfortunately we saw cemeteries flooded in the past, huge impacts on the white fish fishery which made the communities around South Indian Lake self -sufficient since time 'immemoriable'–time immemorial. There has been tremendous impacts. What we're looking for today is a commitment to ensure that we turn a new page, that we kwaysh -kin- na-mihk la paazh [turning the page], as the Métis like to say, when we talk about turning the page.

But what is required to get this started in earnest is a com - mitment from this government that they will ensure that those Hydro- affected communities have a meaningful say in the Churchill River Diversion before the final licence is granted. Will the government comply? Mrs. Guillemard: Every member who has submitted their feedback has have–had a meaningful say and contributed to this process. Manitoba has one of the most strict environmental assessment processes in the country.

We will continue with our great record in holding our industries and all stake holders ac - countable under that process and under the licensing agreement. And, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I look forward to later this year being a part of communicating even more details. Thank you. Manitoba's Workforce Paid Sick Leave Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): This morning, the Alberta government announced a paid, job- protected COVID -19 vaccination leave for all em - ployees regardless of status.

Paid, protected time off to get the vaccine reduces significant barriers pre - venting people from getting vaccinated as quickly as possible. Despite the many calls that we've made to the Premier and his government to prioritize this, Manitoba is quickly falling behind other jurisdictions across Canada. Will this government finally follow in the footsteps o f Alberta, Saskatchewan and BC and implement a paid, protected vaccine leave for all Manitoba workers? Hon.

Scott Fielding (Minister of Finance): Our government won't have to follow the lead because we did take the lead where our Premier from–Premier as well as an NDP premier pushed the federal govern - ment for a sick leave parameter program that's in place, that's been extended because of the extensive work that our Premier, as well as ministers–pushed both the federal Finance Minister as well as the Prime Minister to have a program in place to make sure people are supported during COVID. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The 'honorim' member for St. Johns, on a supplementary question. Ms.

Fontaine: And yet Manitoba is falling behind other jurisdictions. Manitobans need more than just paid leave to get their shots. They need actual paid sick leave so they don't have to come to work if they're having symp - toms of this illness. As the Premier' s vaccine rollout continues to be pushed back and slowed down, we're in a third wave of COVID -19, coupled with new and dangerous variants, the financial impact is growing larger on many people living paycheque to paycheque.

We know workplace transmission is occurring and we know that many low -income workers can't afford to take paid –time off if they get sick. So will the Premier (Mr. Pallister) protect workers by providing permanent paid sick leave for all Manitobans? Mr. Fielding: I can tell you that I've been in contact with numerous businesses or been contacted–with us. I can tell you that it's generally happening right now– a volunteer basis –where people are giving their employees time off. People want to make sure that they're vaccinated.

That's going to help not only their business; it's going to help the Manitoba economy reopen; that's important. Our government has pushed the federal government for a sick leave program. We're going to continue to enhance our push to make sure there's an enhanced program. We know the longevity of the program has been extended a number of weeks because of the collective effort that our Premier, as well as the premier from BC, has taken. We're going to continue to push the federal government for enhanced programming. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a final supplementary question. Ms.

Fontaine: While the minister keeps passing the buck, we need a permanent rethink for how we deal

April 22, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2659 with illness in the workplace. COVID-19 has laid bare the disparities between working conditions for Manitobans. We need a permanent paid sick leave is– and that is very real. Women, BIPOC Manitobans and low -wage workers are among the most impacted and are often those who do not have access to benefits that would allow them to stay home when they're sick without losing income. The Premier has failed to protect vulnerable front- line workers with paid sick leave.

So will the Premier stand up today to protect Manitobans by announcing a comprehensive permanent paid sick leave infrastructure today for Manitobans? Mr. Fielding: Our government has taken the lead. As mentioned, our Premier was the–one of the ones that pushed for the sick leave program at the federal level. That's really important. Not only do we–are we talking about these things, we're actually doing these things, Mr. Speaker. We are the first province to pass legislation in terms of allowing people time off in terms of the sick leave parameters. It's been raised before.

There's been over 2,000 people that have been supported through the Workers Compensation Board. Up to 90 per cent of their incomes have been supported where people have been protected. And that's one of the first provinces–in fact, we were the first province to do that, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Northern Health Care Funding and Staffing Mr. Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): Northern health care is in crisis. I've pleaded with multiple ministers of Health to address the serious loss of health pro- fessionals in northern Manitoba. Yesterday's news confirms what we've been saying.

Nearly one in every two nurse positions is sitting vacant in the northern region right now. That's not sustainable. It's pushing northern health care well past the breaking point. Why has this government allowed the steady erosion of health care in northern Manitoba? Hon. Heather Stefanson (Minister of Health and Seniors Care): Certainly, we are working to increase the capacity across the entire province in our health - care system when it comes to nurses, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

In fact, 20 new spaces have been created in the University College of the North's diploma in practical nursing program, which is now being offered for students in Thompson and Flin Flon. And I want to thank the minister responsible for Advanced Education for that great announcement that he made today. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Flin Flon, on a supplementary question. Mr. Lindsey: Cuts and closures are having a real impact on northern health care. Nearly one out of every two nurse positions is sitting vacant.

When health -care services are restricted, m y constituents have to travel great distances, some taking flights, others 12 hours on a bus, in order to get their health needs met, and that's just plain wrong, and more so during the pandemic. We need care closer to home that this government keeps promising but keeps failing to deliver. Will the minister undo the damage, restore funding for northern health care today? Mrs.

Stefanson: Not only have we announced that – 20 new spaces at the University College of the North's diploma in practical nursing program, but we're also working hand in hand with the Provincial Nominee Program to find individuals with professional nursing backgrounds. We're providing assistance in navigating prov - incial regulatory registration processes. Thirty -seven registered nurses have recently completed the critical- care nursing orientation program, and all of them have been offered full -time permanent positions in Manitoba ICUs.

We're making progress, but we recognize there's still more work to be done. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Flin Flon, on a final supplementary question. Mr. Lindsey: I hear what the minister says about nurses being hired to fill ICUs. We have no ICUs in northern Manitoba. You know, there's less care closer to home, less medical procedures due to underfunding, under - staffing: day surgeries declined by 28 per cent from 2016 to last year; no doctor in Snow Lake; shut down Leaf Rapids Health Centre due to a nurse shortage.

2660 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 22, 2021 Now, with COVID-19, reduced flight schedules from the North, more time has to be spent in the city; no increase in the amounts paid by northern patient transportation. * (14:20) Why has this government allowed the steady erosion of health care in northern Manitoba? Why do they hate northern Manitobans? Mrs. Stefanson: Oh, Mr. Deputy Speaker, we love northern Manitobans. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mrs. Stefanson: Mr. Deputy–[interjection] I'll just sit down. [interjection] Mr.

Deputy Speaker: The honourable Minister of Health and Seniors Care. Mrs. Stefanson: In fact, we love northern Manitoba so much that we have created those 20 new spaces at the University College of the North to train more nurses in northern Manitoba, Mr. Deputy Speaker. We won't go back to the dark days of the previous NDP government, where they shut down more than 17 hospitals in our rural and northern communities, Mr. Deputy Speaker. We'll continue to ensure that we provide better health care sooner, closer to home for all Manitobans, including those we lo ve in northern Manitoba. [interjection] Mr.

Deputy Speaker: Order. Order. COVID-19 Vaccine Priority Winnipeg Transit Staff Mr. Matt Wiebe (Concordia): Every single day, transit workers work in a space that's roughly a 150 square feet. And in that small space, hundreds or even thousands of people go through their vehicle on a daily basis. Transit drivers have no way to guarantee the folks who get on their buses are COVID-free, and we've seen many COVID -19 exposures listed on transit buses. Yet, those t ransit workers show up for work every single day to provide an essential service.

However, this government doesn't seem to think that those transit drivers should be prioritized for vaccination. Will the minister do what's right today and include transit drivers in the vaccination priority list? Hon. Heather Stefanson (Minister of Health and Seniors Care): The member opposite will know that, of course, we take our advice from the medical leads at the Vaccine Implementation Task Force who are advancing the eligibility criteria each and every day to ensure that we protect those most vulnerable Manitobans. So we'll continue to take the advice of the medical leads, not the members opposite. Mr.

Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Concordia, on a supplementary question. Mr. Wiebe: We rely on transit workers to keep the wheels of our cities moving, everything from going to work, accessing health- care services, getting to the grocery store and everything in between. Yet, as more and more of us rely on transit, exposures are increasing, and transit workers tell us that the increase in COVID variants is a real concern. This year alone, we've seen 70 confirmed public exposures to COVID -19 on Winnipeg buses, with 21 of them being linked to those variants of concern.

And despite these increased risks, the minister continues to not prioritize those workers. I ask again: Will the minister protect transit workers and those who ride the bus by including transit operators in the vaccine priority list? Mrs. Stefanson: Again, the member opposite should know by now that we take our advice from the medical leads at the Vaccine Implementation Task Force. And I just want to take this opportunity to thank them and all those who are working diligently to ensure that we can expedite the vaccines in the arms of Manitobans.

We won't be satisfied until we get every eligible Manitobans vaccinated in the province of Manitoba. But I want to thank them because they've made significant headway. In fact, even this week we've expanded the eligibility to 50 years of age or older and 30 years of age or older for First Nations. We've expanded the vaccine eligibility to include front -line police officers, firefighters and first responders. We've partnered with five urban Indigenous commun- ity organizations in Manitoba to create Indigenous– Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable minister's time is up.

The honourable member for Concordia, on a final supplemental question. Mr. Wiebe: The minister will know that those medical leads are in fact telling her that, since the pandemic began, 15 Winnipeg Transit staff had self -

April 22, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2661 reported testing positive for the –COVID-19 to their union. And we know that the true numbers, of course, will be higher. But they continue –and so workers continue to inter act every single day with hundreds and hundreds of people, and they are getting sick. Our team raised this issue months ago and we wrote to this minister to ask to make transit workers a priority. Yet, two months later, no answer from this minister. Will the minister change her mind, respect these workers, get them vaccinated now, yes or no? Mrs. Stefanson: Well, so much to say, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, so little time to say it, because the medical leads of the Vaccine Implementation Task Force have been so busy, in fact, getting more Manitobans vaccinated and more Manitobans eligible for vac- cination. So I will continue, Mr. Deputy Speaker. We've worked with our Indigenous community organ- izations to further partner with them to get vaccines out in those communities. We've partnered with North Dakota to ensure that 4,000 essential truck drivers for the province of Manitoba are also prioritized. We've expanded the criteria for the AstraZeneca vaccine to all Manitobans over the age of 40.

I want to thank the incredible work of the Vaccine Implementation Task Force, the medical leads who make these very important and very tough decisions based on– Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable minister's time is up. Churchill River Diversion Project Duty to Consult First Nations Mr. Adrien Sala (St. James): We understand that a final licence decision for the Churchill River Diversion is imminent. The Province has an obli - gation to meaningfully consult with O -Pipon-Na- Piwin Cree Nation and Tataskweyak Cree Nation before making this decision. This is so important.

Hydro is incredibly impor - tant to this province, but the concerns of Hydro- impacted First Nations cannot be ignored. Will the minister ensure that communities impacted by the Churchill River Diversion Project are truly and meaningfully consulted before making a final licence decision? Hon. Jeff Wharton (Minister of Crown Services): Certainly, on this side of the House, we take a whole- of-government approach when it comes to consul - tation, Mr. Deputy Speaker. That's exactly what we're doing with the Minister of Indigenous and Northern Relations (Ms. Clarke), the Minister of Conservation and Climate (Mrs.

Guillemard), and in concert with Hydro and Crown Services, we're going to make sure that consultation c ontinues, unlike the members opposite. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for St. James, on a supplementary question. Mr. Sala: We know how important Hydro projects are, but we recognize the harms that were done in the past. The final licence pro cess is an opportunity for a new approach. Those greatly impacted by the Churchill River Diversion and the Augmented Flow Program must be adequately consulted.

When will the minister consult with impacted First Nations to ensure a fair and equitable deci sion for all? Mr. Wharton: The member brings up the past. Let's talk about the past when it comes to Manitoba Hydro. Mr. Deputy Speaker, we know under the NDP what happened. [interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Wharton: The NDP tripled the debt of Manitoba Hydro. As a matter of fact, during the Keeyask -bipole process, Mr. Deputy Speaker, they bypassed the PUB. They went all the way around the PUB.

We'll ensure that Manitoba's Crown jewel, Manitoba Hydro, owned by Manitobans, will continue to be the Crown jewel under our government. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for St. James, on a final supplementary question. Mr. Sala: I find it embarrassing that the government cannot just simply commit to sitting down with First Nations to discuss this important issue. The Churchill River Diversion was licensed on an interim basis, as was an Augmented Flow Program. It's had a real and lasting impact on First Nations in northern Manitoba.

A final licence decision is an opportunity to meaningfully engage with communities. We're deeply concerned that this government hasn't done that.

2662 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 22, 2021 Will the Pallister government conduct public and transparent consultation with the impacted commun - ities before making such a large decision, yes or no? Mr. Wha rton: Of course, our government is very proud of the reconciliation and communication and negotiations that we have with our First Nations partners, Mr. Deputy Speaker. As a matter of fact, the 17 years the NDP were in government–[interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Wharton: Let's talk a little bit about Freedom Road. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, under the NDP, not an inch, not a foot, not a mile was built under them. * (14:30) We are consulting with our First Nations. We built Freedom Road. We will continue to consult with First Nations. Unlike the NDP, we'll get it right. Manitoba's Workforce Paid Sick Leave Mr. Dougald Lamont (St. Boniface): Manitoba Liberals are certainly glad the NDP have come around to our view that Manitoba needs better sick leave protections for Manitoba workers.

Since six months ago, when the PCs tried to rush through completely inadequate legislation in just three and a half hours, we stood alone asking for more sick days, no sick notes and for the provincial government to actually put in some money. Canadian courts have recognized that labour is presumed to be a provincial responsibility and that the federal government only gets involved in exceptional cases. That's why we have a provincial minimum wage, why we have provi ncial labour laws, why we have a provincial Workers Compensation Board.

Is this government going to honour its legal obligation with better sick leave for workers, or is the Premier (Mr. Pallister) once again going to ask everyone else to do his job and cover his bills? Hon. Scott Fielding (Minister of Finance): Our government is very proud of the initiative that we've taken with the sick leave program. That sick leave program probably wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for our Premier, as well as the NDP Premier of BC, to push this initiative. We think these programs that are important.

We're going to continue to push the federal government to have an–not just in terms of the duration, but in terms of the amount that people are supported from. That's s omething that we'll continue to push. I know I pushed it at the federal finance ministers' table–we have our weekly meetings–as well as the Premier pushes with the Prime Minister every time he gets on the phone call with the Prime Minister. [interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. The honourable member for St. Boniface, on a supplementary question. Mr.

Lamont: The government can hardly deny that labour is almost entirely a provincial responsibility because so much of their legislative agenda is dedi - cated to lay-offs, cuts, breaking unions and stripping people of their constitutional right to bargain for the value of their work. In October, we were the only people standing up to say that the PCs' bill wasn't good enough, and we held it up asking for improvement for Manitoba workers. Manitoba workers need better paid sick leave, and the provincial government should be the first to provide it.

Why does this government only think labour is a provincial responsibility when they're taking rights away from workers? Mr. Fielding: We're glad we can have consensus with the Liberal members. We want to push the federal government to have an enhanced sick leave program. We think that's extremely important, that's why we pushed–we were one of the first in the nation to push for such a program. In fact, we pushed it so hard, Mr. Deputy Speak– beyond words, we put it into legislation.

We are the first province to have legislation that was introduced in our Legislature before any other in the whole country of Canada. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Tyndall Park, on a final supplementary question. COVID-19 Vaccine Eligibility Long-Haul Truck Drivers Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): It's typical that the Premier (Mr. Pallister) is taking credit for vaccines being paid and administered by the American government for long- haul truck drivers driving south, yet all of our long- haul truck drivers driving east into Ontario, west into Alberta are still not eligible.

April 22, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2663 The bottom line is, Mr. Speaker, with the tens of thousands of vaccines that are available but not being administered, will the Premier show compassion and make it clear that all long-haul truck drivers will now be eligible? Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Deputy Premier): Well, Mr. Deputy Speaker, it takes some nerve, even sitting in your home, to launch this kind of a question.

The scarcity of vaccines that Canada is experiencing is a direct result of the federal Liberal government not being prepared for this pandemic when others saw that we needed these vaccines much earlier. But we have a Premier and a government that has vision, vision to work with an NDP Premier in British Columbia to try to get supports, vision to work with the Republican governor in North Dakota to try to get vaccines for Manitobans. We will work with anybody to try to improve the lot of Manitobans during this pandemic.

We'll even work with the Liberals if they would stand up and work with us and just not play partisan politics all the time, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Perimeter Highway Funding for Upgrades Mr. Scott Johnston (Assiniboia): Earlier this week, the Minister of Infrastructure announced the construction of road- rock road– Rockall Road, I'm sorry, a $2.5- million service road off the Perimeter Highway within the RM of Headingley. Can this hard-working minister update the House on this exciting news and share how our government is improving safety on our Perimeter Highway? [interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Hon.

Ron Schuler (Minister of Infrastructure): Well, first of all, thank you very much to the member for Assiniboine for that fantastic question. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to thank the Minister of Finance (Mr. Fielding) for that great budget that he brought forward–$1.5 billion for Infrastructure over three years. And part of that is going to go in support of our mission to update the Perimeter Highway to freeway status. We have provided a one -time grant of up to $2.5 million to construct Rockall Road.

This will be a municipally owned service road required to facil itate the urgent closure of the direct access onto the South Perimeter Highway. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to say that our government is going to ensure that we develop the Perimeter Highway in a safe and sustainable way, because safety is our government's No. 1 priority. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Order. Order. Greenhouse Gas Emissions Reduction Targets for Manitoba Ms. Lisa Naylor (Wolseley): The Pallister government is the only provincial government with - out real greenh ouse gas reduction targets.

It's a na - tional embarrassment. The federal government today pledged reductions up to 45 per cent under 2005 levels by 2030. The United States pledged 50 per cent. Manitoba's approach is tinkering around the edges while the world burns, and it's long past time for substantial action. Will the Pallister government honour Earth Day by putting forward a real plan with real targets to reduce emissions? Hon. Sarah Guillemard (Minister of Conservation and Climate): I appreciat e any questions that sur - round our Climate and Green Plan. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, setting targets are very important, but more important are reaching those targets. And our Climate and Green Plan has set realistic targets that are achievable, attainable, and we are already getting results. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Wolseley, on a supplementary question. Ms. Naylor: I really want to employ –implore the minister: this issue is dire. This is not a time to set the bar so low so that you can reach it.

You –the minister would find co-operation from this side of the House if she took charge of this file and pursued this matter seriously, but that means real targets, a real plan and real investments. There are no real targets. There's a plan written by a previous campaign manager and very limited investment. The Pallister government is fighting a rising carbon price in court. They're now offside with even their own federal party. Will the minister support real targets for Manitoba in line with what Canada and the United States announced today?

2664 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 22, 2021 Mrs. Guillemard: I find it almost laughable that the member opposite is talking about low bars. The– under the NDP government, the OAG reported that their 2008 and 2015 plan did not set realistic targets. In fact, to quote, the Province conducted no economic or scientific analyses in setting the 2008 and 2015 targets. We will take no lessons from a tired, old, non- plan-filled NDP party. Thank you. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Wolseley, on a final supplementary question. Ms.

Naylor: The Pallister government is offside with every province in Canada, and all this minister can do is compare this government to a government that – from–you know, she's talking about 2008. What are you even ta lking about? Have you noticed what's happened with the environment and climate in the last 13 years? This government's had five years to work on this file. They have no real targets for reducing greenhouse gasses. They're in a losing legal fight arguing that they can fiddle with the timing of a carbon price.

Their arguments never made sense, and less so now, now that every major party in Ottawa is proposing a rising carbon price, even federal Conservatives. * (14:40) The Pallister government can't stall any longer– Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member's time is up. Mrs. Guillemard: Just to help the member out, the previous NDP government was in power until 2015. All of our departments have been cleaning up a mess ever since. And we are determined, and we will be reaching our emissions reductions target.

It's not enough just to speak about caring about the en- vironment, which the previous government was very good at doing. You must also act to preserve it. The NDP have all of the right words but they have zero actions or results to back up those words. Mr. Deputy Speaker, we will do better because we can do better. Wage Freeze at MPI Appointment of Conciliator Mr. Mintu Sandhu (The Maples): Just a few weeks after this government forced MPI into c ostly deals with insurance brokers, they also implemented a two- year wage freeze on MPI workers.

It is clear that the average Manitoban isn't who this government is looking out for. Will the minister stop interfering at MPI? Will he once again be appointing a conciliator? Hon. Jeff Wharton (Minister of Crown Services): Again, I've mentioned many times and–actually, I've met with the member from The Maples on a number of occasions and have the utmost respect for him. And he understands, he knows that he –we as govern - ment should not get involved in negotiations between parties, especially with our Crown corporations. I know that he appreciates the process like we do, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

That's exactly what's going to continue on during the negotiations. And we're going to keep nose in, fingers out on all Crown services as we go forward. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The time for oral questions has expired. PETITIONS Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for The Pas-Kameesak, do you have a petition? Public Child-Care Grants Ms. Amanda Lathlin (The Pas-Kameesak): Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. The background for this petition is as follows:

(1) The pandemic has further emphasized the need for quality, affordable and accessible child care and has demonstrated that the government has failed to ensure child care is accessible to all Manitoba families.

(2) Over 90 per cent of Manitoba children receive child care through non-profit, licensed centres, and yet funding has been frozen since 2016. These cuts ha ve resulted in many early -childhood educators leaving the sector.

(3) When child-care centres have faced increased costs associated with the lost parent fees due to COVID-19 closures and spent thousands on PPE, when open, to keep kids safe, the provincial govern- ment has provided no additional financial support.

(4) The government spent less than 1 per cent of the $18- million temporary child -care grant, and instead gave KPMG double their contract, nearly

April 22, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2665 $600,000, to conduct a review that will raise pare nt fees and lay the groundwork for privatization.

(5) The provincial government's cuts to nursery school grants is doubling parent fees for hundreds of families, making child care less affordable and accessible.

(6) The provincial government passed bill 34, the budget implementation and tax statues amendment act, which removed the cap on child- care fees for private sector businesses. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the government to reverse changes to the nursery school grants and to end the freeze on child- care operating grants while committing to keeping public child care affordable and accessible for all Manitoban families. Mr. Deputy Speaker, this petition has been signed by many, many fine Manitobans. Mr.

Deputy Speaker: In accordance with rule 133-6, when petitions are read they must be deemed to be received by the House. Diagnostic Testing Accessibility Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Until recently, diagnostic medical tests, including for blood and fluid samples, were available and accessible in most medical clinics.

(2) Dynacare blood test labs have consolidated their blood and fluid testing services by closing 25 of its labs.

(3) The provincial government has cut diagnostic testing at many clinic sites, and residents now have to travel to different locations to get their testing done, even for a simple blood test or urine sample.

(4) Further, travel challenges for vulnerable and elderly residents of northeast Winnipeg may result in fewer tests being done or delays in testing, with the attendant effects of increased health -care costs and poorer individual patient outcomes.

(5) COVID-19 emergency rules have resulted in long outdoor lineups, putting vulnerable residents at further risk in extreme weather, be it hot or cold. Moreover, these long lineups have resulted in longer wait times for services and poorer service in general.

(6) Manitoba residents value the convenience and efficiency of the health-care system when they're able to give their samples at the time of the doctor visit. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to immedi - ately demand Dynacare maintain all of the phleb - otomy blood sample sites existing prior to the COVID-19 public health emergency, and allow all Manitobans to get their blood and urine tests done when visiting their doctor, thereby facilitating l ocal access to blood testing services. This petition is signed by many Manitobans.

Dauphin Correctional Centre Mr. Mintu Sandhu (The Maples): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) The provincial government plans to close the Dauphin Correctional Centre, DCC, in May 2020.

(2) The DCC is one of the largest employers in Dauphin, providing the community with good, family-supporting jobs.

(3) Approximately 80 families will be directly affected by the closure, which will also impact the local economy.

(4) As of January 27, 2020, Manitoba's justice system was already more than 250 inmates over - capacity. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the Minister of Justice to immediately reverse the decision to close the DCC and proceed with the previous plan to build a new correctional and healing centre with an expanded courthouse in Dauphin. This has been signed by many Manitobans.

2666 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 22, 2021 Mr. Mark Wasyliw (Fort Garry): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) The provincial government plans to close the Dauphin Correctional Centre, DCC, in May of 2020.

(2) The DCC is one of the largest employers in Dauphin, providing the community with good, family-supporting jobs.

(3) Approximately 80 families will be directly affected by the closure, which will also impact the local economy.

(4) As of Jan uary 27, 2020, Manitoba's justice system was already more than 250 inmates over - capacity. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the Minister of Justice to immediately reverse the decision to close the DCC and proceed with the previous plan to build a new correctional and healing centre with an expanded courthouse in Dauphin. And this has been signed by many Manitobans. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Is there any further petitions? Grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY (Continued) GOVERNMENT BUSINESS Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Government House Leader): Mr.

Deputy Speaker, could you please call for second reading, Bill 71, The Education Property Tax Reduction Act, property tax and insulation assistance act and income tax amended –act amended and, following that, Bill 40, The Manitoba Liquor and Lotteries Corporation Amendment and Liquor, Gaming and Cannabis Control Amendment Act. Mr.

Deputy Speaker: It has been 'mannounced' by the honourable Government House Leader that –to bring Bill 71 on debate for –Bill 71, The Education Property Tax Reduction Act, the property tax in - sulation assistance act the and income tax amended, and then also requested to have Bill 40, and No. 40 – Bill 40. Is it the pleasure of the House to bring these bills forward? [interjection] Pardon me. * (14:50) DEBATE ON SECOND READINGS Bill 71–The Education Property Tax Reduction Act (Property Tax and Insulation Assistance Act and Income Tax Act Amended) Mr.

Deputy Speaker: We'll go into debate on Bill 71 for the–the honourable member for Point Douglas has 14 minutes remaining. Mrs. Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): Well, let me be clear. Bill 71 attacks Manitoba's most vulnerable, those most in need, while shoring up the bank accounts of the richest people in this province. Today, Manitoba renters get a $700 tax credit–not anymore if Bill 71 receives royal assent. Deputy Speaker, this bill reduces the $700 tax credit Manitoba renters get by 25 per cent every year until it's ultim - ately phased out completely.

These renters rely on this extra money when they're figuring out their finances when tax time comes. Now, Deputy Speaker, this government knows what its doing. As I've already said, if they wanted to help out low-income Manitobans they can easily do it in a lot of ways. Tha t said, if you had to pick one avenue to take in helping low -income Manitobans, rent is a good way to go. Any regular Manitoban who doesn't live in a mansion can tell you renters need help the most. Rent is skyrocketing in our province under this – under the watch of this Pallister government.

Renters are the people who have been hit the hardest in this pandemic. People who rent rather than own their homes are more likely to be seniors, racialized people, women, LGBTTQ2S, young Manitobans, students and people with disabilities. These are the people who need economic support from this government the most, not those who own homes –two, three, four homes that are going to get multiple rebates from this government that don't really need this extra support, especially during a pandemic. This pandemic has not affected everyone equally.

If somebody was financially stable enough to own their own home and have some savings to fall back on after getting laid off, things weren't as bad as they could have been. They could simply stay inside, order food to their home and spend time with their family. That expense–or that experience of basic safety and well-being through a pandemic is something that not every Manitoban has been able to experience.

April 22, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2667 Instead, the unemployment rate for young people has increased dramatically. Homelessness and pov - erty have been on the rise in this province under this Pallister government's watch. Racialized and new - comer Manitoban [inaudible] working precarious jobs and they have been hit hard, Deputy Speaker. What this government offered to these people, what have they offered? Not a whole lot, when they should have been supporting Manitobans financially. And what better services? They were doing the exact opposite.

They are proposing tax br eaks for the rich while Manitobans are still in the dark ages when it comes to mental health funding. The most liberal estimates would still put the funding rates for mental health in this province at a percentage of the total health -care budget below 6 per cent. Deputy Speaker, you won't find an expert anywhere who can tell you that number should be below 9 per cent, and that's the bare minimum. And what does Bill 71 do for them? Absolutely nothing. This government axed the funding for the Seneca Warm Line, a non- profit mental health sup - port.

That was a program that the numbers show with more than twice –that was more than twice effective and exponentially cheaper than the government's big business sweetheart deal with Morneau and Shepell. And does Bi ll 71 do anything for this mental health support? Absolutely nothing.

Not to mention the fact that the Seneca Warm Line provided employment to Manitobans, not people from out of province, Deputy Speaker, Manitobans – Manitobans who care about their neighbours, want to help them and know the province will do well enough to do–and know the province well enough to do that better–and know the province better than anybody else from out of province possibly could. And yet, Deputy Speaker, what did this Premier (Mr.

Pallister) decide, that offsetting the wealth tax for rich landlords instead of giving Seneca Warm Line 113,000 that helped over 12,000 Manitobans –12,000 Manitobans with mental health issues while this pandemic is going on. And this, you know, Premier , decides to help wealthy landlords and big real estate companies, and he felt that that was something more important than helping Manitobans with their mental health issues.

The Premier is so cheap when it comes to things that actually matter to Manitob ans, so cheap that he decided to make–decided that it makes sense, in a deadly pandemic, to only vaccinate Manitobans six days a week. Deputy Speaker, Manitobans care about getting vaccinated. Manitobans care about their loved ones getting vaccinated. And here you have a Premier who can't even vaccinate people seven days a week. Meanwhile, we've heard from concerned family members of patients at Selkirk Mental Health that they're only getting brief 10 -minute breaks from the building every day.

Why are the se patients, who are living in a high- density health facility, not getting vaccinated? Why are they making them wait and allowing their mental health to suffer? And this Premier brings forward Bill 71? These are what families care about. They want to ensure that mental–the mental health of Manitobans is at the forefront, that resources are being put towards helping people during this pandemic, that people are getting vaccinated in timely –a timely manner, that there's enough nurses in this province to make sure that every patient is getting care at the bed that they should get.

Deputy Speaker, we heard about a 93- year-old. This bill does nothing to help that 93-year-old get out of the hallway of Grace Hospital. Instead, this Premier thinks that giving, you know, wealthy Manitobans tax breaks is the way to go. There's so many ways that this government and the Premier could help Manitobans, yet still the Premier sits in the House, you know, pushing a bill that would take money off of the kitchen table of renters–that's even if they have a kitchen table left, Deputy Speaker. And yet, they have the audacity to say the opposite, that they're putting money on kitchen tables.

Well, they're not putting money on kitchen tables where it matters the most, and that's those that are struggling, those that have lost their jobs, those that are, you know, struggling to keep the house that they're living in, struggling to pay their rent every month, to keep their lights on, to put food on the table, to keep their kids in daycare. And this government, you know, brings forward a bill that does not help them. Mr. Dennis Smook, Acting Speaker, in the Chair The reality, Deputy Speaker, is much different. It's clear who this bill is meant to help.

The Premier got more in common with landlords than they have in common with renters. That may be why they've engineered this bill to give wealthy Manitobans who own multiple properties an enormous break. I'm talking about tax breaks for those who need them the least, while those who need them the most are being left out in the cold with this–with Bill 71.

2668 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 22, 2021 This bill gives handouts to the rich by repealing– repeating the same 25 per cent rebate for their second property and third property and fourth property. You know, there's no limits, Deputy Speaker. If someone owns an apartment block, you know, what is their rebate going to be? Astronomical, versus someone who is going to be getting less–25 per cent less come income tax that banks on that money, you know, to help maybe pay–to buy that kitchen table.

I know when I was growing up that, you know, income tax was huge for our family because we knew we were getting some extra funds, and those funds were used to, you know, buy us new beds or put some new clothes on our bac ks, and I know Manitobans struggle with that even today. And this is this government's priority, to give wealthy Manitobans a tax break instead of helping those that actually need it? You know, I say to this government that they need to go back and actually start listening to Manitobans.

Based on the government's own reporting num - bers on this bill–and I want to be–and I want this to be very clear: according to the government's own num - bers, the average homeowner in this province gets $385.

What the government didn't include is that most of that money is going to be eaten up by the Premier's increase to hydro rates. * (15:00) Well, we know that just before Christmas, in December, that this government raised hydro rates by 2.9 per cent –2.9 per cent during a pandemic, during a time when Manitobans were struggling, when Manitobans were losing their jobs, when Manitobans were losing their houses, their suites, you know, when they were getting kicked out of–because they couldn't pay rent. And this is this government's priority?

Why not start helping the average Manitoban that actually needs the support, that doesn't own property in this province, instead of taking money off of their kitchen tables? So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, it's also worth con - sidering how much Manitobans are losing out to this government's cuts. It's harder to put a dollar value on that per person, but I think if you ask the average Manitoban if they'd rather have three more emergency rooms and more nurses during this pandemic or a glorified campaign leaflet with a few dollars taped to it, they'd probably pick the former.

And like I said, Manitobans want their services and this government has continued to erode them. As we've heard, there was 3,000 less nurses. The Premier bragged about hiring back 1,700 of those nurses. Well, if you do the math, Deputy Speaker, that's still 1,300 less nurses at the bedside helping Manitobans. And this government wants to boast about 1,300 less nurses at the bedside helping Manitobans? Shame. The Premier ear ned a lot of money as a busi - nessman.

Apparently, that makes him better than the average Manitoban, because we know that this Premier is getting a $7,000 cheque right from the people of Manitoba, with his own signature on it. Bill 71 makes no sense to me . Why would an average Manitoban who has been laid off from work and, you know, off and on for months because of this government's mismanagement of the pandemic, not deserve that same $7,000? Why?

Why would the average Manitoban who's been offered precario us little or precious little by this government and, in some cases, have not had or have even had benefits clawed back, not need $7,000, Deputy Speaker? And I think about all the Manitobans, you know, from Bill 71, that aren't going to be benefiting; they aren't going to be getting any rebates, people that are on EIA that have been cut off. You know, there's so many Manitobans that are struggling, and Bill 71 does nothing to help them. Mr. Deputy Speaker, $7,000, you know, to the Premier (Mr. Pallister) t hat–that that could go to Manitobans in need.

And to put this all into per - spective, the government could have sent a cheque to students–students who have seen their tuition under this government continue to skyrocket. It's put education out of the reach of students in the province and I think of, you know, First Nations students who used to have access to bursaries in this province and will now, under this government, don't have access to any bursaries or have access to very limited amount of money, in terms of going to school. And if we want to talk about equality and levelling the playing field here, Deputy Speaker, where's their rebate?

How is Bill 71 helping them? This government just continues to, you know, help the wealthy and leave those that are s truggling left behind. So if this government wants support for Bill 71, they need to ensure fair taxation and quit leaving out the most vulnerable Manitobans, like our small businesses, our small businesses who rent their space. They're not going to be getting a rebate cheque because they don't own the space that they rent.

April 22, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2669 How is that helping them, many who have had to close their doors under this government? And this government boasts about having the most generous, you know, plan to help Manitobans. Well, I can tell you , the Manitobans that we're speaking to, that are reaching out to us, and there is a lot of them, do not support what this government's plan has been. Miigwech. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr.

Deputy Speaker, Bill 71 will reduce education property tax for homeowners and for those who own commercial property, or perhaps, more accurately, will give rebates to such property owners, which, in the case of residential homeowners, are 25 per cent of their prop- erty tax. In order to do this, the government is borrowing about $250 million to give property owners a tax break. While it's always nice for people to get a tax break, there are a number of important questions we need to ask.

First, we need to ask: Is it smart to reduce taxes in this way at a time when the government has a large deficit and a large debt? The Minister of Finance (Mr. Fielding) says that this year the government will run a deficit of more than $2 billion. We have to take the minister at his word, because he provided a list of the expected gov- ernment expenses but failed to provide a list of the expected government revenue. We also know from the Minister of Finance that it's expected that Bill 71 will cost the government $248 million.

However, this is not the total cost because this number doesn't include some of the costs involved; for example, the more than $1 million that it will take to deliver personal letters from the Premier with the rebate cheques. We also know that the Minister of Finance expects to take eight years to balance the budget. We have not been provided any estimate of the extra interest costs that need to be included during this period as costs for borrowing this money, which is to provide rebates to property owners.

The government can only start paying the money borrowed back, which would cover the cost of this tax reduction, when it has balanced the budget, because until that time, it will be going further into debt. Thus, the total cost of the tax reduction is likely to be many additional millions of dollars. For example, if the interest rate paid were 2 per cent, the cumulative cost of this year's initiative alone would be close to $300 million in eight years. If the interest paid was 5 per cent, then the cumulative cost of this year's initiative would be close to $400 million after eight years.

These costs do not include the cost of the planned reduction next year by an additional 25 per cent, which would add significantly more dollars and more cost in terms of interest payments. Thus , the cost of the interest on this borrowed money is likely between $50 million and $150 million, depending on the interest rate to be paid. We need to assess bill 72 in terms of the total cost to Manitobans, not just the immediate cost. Second, we must ask: Is this a wise use of public money to give property owners a cheque using borrowed money at this time?

When a government borrows money, it should be used either to address a crisis, as we are doing in addressing the COVID -19 pandemic, or it should be used to put in place lasting infrastructure capital expenditures. Or it should be used in programs which will provide a substantial return on investment for the government and for the people of Manitoba. Thus, borrowing items–money to spend on items which will provide a large and long- term return on investment–can be justified.

To this point, as to what the return on investment for the Province and the government will be from this government's expenditure of hundreds of millions of dollars, the government has provided no analysis whatsoever. We would have expected any responsible government which plans to use borrowed money for an effort like this to have provided a substantive analysis on the return on investment. It is very disappointing that the government has not done so. If, for example, a person who gets a property tax break–for example, the Premier (Mr.

Pallister)–uses the money to spend a lot of time in Costa Rica, for example, the money spent by the government will have little benefit to the people of Manitoba, as the money saved will be spent in Costa Rica and benefit people and employment and government revenues in Costa Rica. I'm not going to argue that the Premier shouldn't help the people of Costa Rica. They are no doubt deserving of his help, but these expenditures are clearly not a benefit to employment and to people in Manitoba.

2670 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 22, 2021 Similarly, providing property tax reductions for people who live outside of Manitoba but own property in Manitoba will likely not have a significant return on investment to Manitoba, as the money will likely be spent elsewhere. * (15:10) Now, the government has provided no analysis whatsoever as to whether individuals who are wealthy are likely to spend their money in ways that will benefit people in employment in Manitoba. So we don't know the answer to whether this is good use of borrowed money by the government.

They have apparently done no surveys, no research as to how people who are well off will spend their money if they're given extra money. It is to be hoped that the government will provide this analysis before the bill comes to a vote, Mr. Deputy Speaker. This is very important infor - mation, which should be available before MLAs have to vote on this bill. Third, we need to ask: Is this expenditure of hundreds of millions of borrowed dollars by the government fair to all Manitobans?

From the govern- ment's analysis, fewer than half of Manitobans are property owners who will see a direct benefit from the property tax. The government says about 650,000 proper ty owners will be better off. This means, with our 2021 population estimated at 1.3 million, that 700,000 Manitobans will not benefit in any way. It is reasonable to ask whether it is fair to borrow hundreds of millions of dollars to spend for the benefit of less than half of all Manitobans. The government has argued that renters may have some benefit from a rent freeze for two years.

However, this is debatable, and there are other con - cerns with the way the government has analyzed this and made this assessment. There are many ways property owners have found to get around rent freezes. This claim may turn out to be false for many who are renters. This is a major concern for all sorts of reasons, including the fact that many venters are less well off, many renters are on fixed income. And so this could be very detrimental and be very harmful for many renters. The money, of course, saved by landlords may go to their pockets rather than benefiting their renters. Only time will tell.

But the government of –should have provided a much better analysis of this and done much better in the way of helping those who are renters, as well as those who are property owners. In this 'contect', it's important to ask what will be the secondary impacts of the property tax re duction downstream. Now, one impact of a property tax re - duction is likely to be an increase in the price of property. I'm told that this has been very well estab - lished by economists. Thus, we can likely expect property prices to rise following the reduction in property tax.

This will have all sorts of implications and may have some detri - mental implications in terms of property tax that some people on low income may have to pay. I will take you through this in a moment. We need to ask, as part of this process, whether the bill we are considering to reduce property taxes is a good way to reduce poverty in our province. Property owners, with some limited exceptions, are individuals who are sufficiently wealthy to own property. This will not have a direct effect to alleviate property, because very few of the 650,000 property owners are poor. There could potentially be spinoffs.

Those who benefit from this bill might decide to donate more to charitable organizations to address poverty. But the government has provided no evidence whatsoever that this will occur or is even likely, and nor have they even suggested that they will check whether the government-borrowed money provided to property owners leads to an increase in charitable donations to help those in poverty. For the 'boment,' we can assume that at the extent that this might occur, it's probably going to be marginal and not have much of an effect on those in poverty.

It is of interest that individuals who own a home and who have a low income may rece ive no benefit from the Pallister property tax reductions or may surprisingly even have to pay more in property tax. Let me take you through a potential example. Let us take the example of Joe Doe [phonetic] and calculate the property tax he will pay now and after the Pallister -style education tax reduction. In 2020, Joe Doe [phonetic], on his house had an education property tax bill of $700. Because he received the resident $700 homeowner Education Property Tax Credit, he paid no education property tax in 2020.

In 2021, as a result of the cut in education prop- erty tax, or what is, as I've said, really an education tax rebate, property values are going to rise. As a result of this rise in property values in 2021, his bill for his

April 22, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2671 education property tax is now $750 instead of $ 700. This year, 2021, his Education Property Tax Credit is reduced to $525. Because he will get a rebate of $175 and a cheque from the Premier (Mr. Pallister), he will have a total of $700 in benefits. But this year, he will now have to pay $50 in education property tax. In other words, his property tax has gone up instead of down as a result of this bill. All the indications are that this is a bad bill for lots of people.

And while it may benefit those who are well to do, it will have, from what we can see at this point, an adverse impact on many, many people in Manitoba. The resulting situation where an individual like Joe Doe [phonetic] can be paying more property tax after the tax reduction than before is the result of the mish mash of changes in the Pallister-style education tax reduction. While tax experts will no doubt make more analyses, what is clear is that those property owners who have a low income will receive much less in benefit than those who have large incomes. The tax is anything but progressive.

It is very– The Acting Speaker (Dennis Smook): I'd like to remind the member, when referring to members in the speech he should be referring to them by their title or their constituency. Thank you. Mr. Gerrard: I'm sorry, Mr. Speaker, I had meant to say the Pallister government- style education tax reduction. The tax is anything but progressive. It is thus very likely to increase inequalities and increase the relative extent of poverty in our province. Is this property tax cut the best way to generate economic activity in Manitoba? We have no analysis from the government to suggest this.

Is this property tax the best way to help children who are struggling at school? Again, the government has provided no analysis of the impact of the cut on children's learning. Are there alternative ways the borrowed money could be spent to help people in poverty and to get a very substantial short - and long- term return on investment? There are quite a number of ways in which the government could spend, which would provide very substantial returns on investment and where using borrowed money might be justifiable based on these major returns on the investment being made.

Outside the Legislature, on a number of days, including yesterday, was a group of individuals, primarily with type 1 diabetes, who were arguing and making the case for the government funding of continuous glucose monitors for people of all ages. The government has increased the availability or the public funding of such monitors up to the age of 25. This may help, from what we can gather, about 50 people. But what really needs to be done is to cover all ages.

Now, many people in front of the Legislature have come and they have done their homework and they have given evidence, including sources, on which they show that there would be a large return on the investment of supporting all those who have type 1 diabetes to get continuous glucose monitors and insulin pumps. Here's an example of an investment that could be quite reasonably made to save money. * (15:20) Preventing diabetes is another option, particularly for type 2 diabetes, where we know that there are major potential for reducing and preventing type 2 diabetes.

Indeed, 20 years ago, in talking with a physician who is an expert in this area, he pointed out that if the government wanted to have a sustainable health-care system, one of the things that was needed was to act to prevent diabetes instead of primarily acting to provide more and more dialysis to treat it, because it wasn't being prevented. Now, there was very little NDP action on this, and there's been no PC action on this. And such action could be saving hundreds of millions of dollars. It's another example where there could be significant savings from an investment.

But in the case of this bill, you know, borrowing money to give people a rebate on their property tax, there's no evidence that it will provide that sort of return on investment. We know that in child care and early childhood education there's many studies which show tha t the return on investment can be sevenfold. For each dollar invested, there can be a return of $7. Here's another example where expenditure could be quite reasonable using borrowed money because of the major and substantial return on investment, 'prevaring'–preparing for and preventing crises.

We need to ask, you know, did the government actively prepare for the COVID-19 pandemic?

2672 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 22, 2021 In all the planning around the government's changes, starting in 2016, I don't remember anywhere where the government planne d to have the surge capacity needed for the COVID pandemic. The result has been major shortage of health- care workers, compared to what has been needed. And today, as we all know, we have a severe shortage of nurses and other health- care workers, because of the lack of adequate foresight and planning by the government for the surge, which we have seen in the need for health care during the COVID -19 pandemic.

To add to this, the government failed to ensure in the years 2006 to 2019 that the funding for public health was robust enough to have adequate preparation for this pandemic. Another area where expenditures might be justifiable using borrowed money and might have major returns on investment would be in preventing and mitigating climate change. We have a global crisis looming, resulting from the increase in global temper- atures, and yet this government has brought in a budget with a lot of infrastructure spending, that very little of which will make any significant impact to reduce climate change.

Basic research–basic scientific research can have very large returns on investment. Take an example, the research of Dr. Kati Kariko. This research on mRNA laid the groundwork for the mRNA vaccines, which has been so important for the development of vaccines against the corona virus, SARS -CoV-2, which has increased and caused the COVID -19 pan- demic. It's to be mentioned that the funding that she received she struggled for on many, many occasions. And, certainly, it's an example of where government support can make an early difference by supporting scientific research.

Another example would be helping individuals with disabilities. We all know that invention of the telephone resulted from a person, Alexander Graham Bell, trying to help an individual with a he aring dif- ficulty. There are countless other examples, of major examples, resulting from work to help those with a disabilities. Individuals with learning disabilities are an example. Our education system should be able to learn better to help those with learning disabilities. And this could make a big difference.

And in learning, we can have a better education system instead of what the government is trying to do which is to change the overview, get rid of school boards, make them scape- goats and get rid of some of the attention which has been so valuable from school boards to help indi - viduals who are struggling. I have brought up recently the potential for benefits from investing to eliminate lead water pipes and reduce the lead exposure of children.

P resident Biden wisely recently announced a major investment in infrastructure which will replace all the lead water pipes in the United States and reduce lead exposure and lead poisoning of children. Newark, New Jersey, is an example of a city that's acted. It is now almost replaced its thousands of lead water pipes. Regina in Saskatchewan has announced that its goal is to replace all lead water pipes by 2025. But Manitoba is missing in action. So there are many ways –and I will mention a couple of others.

Investment and major issues related to addiction and mental health if properly done would have a major beneficial income–impact. One could even look at minimum basic income, because money given to provide a minimum basic income will likely all be spent in Manitoba, will help the Manitoba economy instead of being spent in Costa Rica. And providing that minimum basic income will help some, as has been shown in Dauphin, get better education, it will 'selp' others so that they have less mental 'streth' that are more healthy.

So it could be an example of a very beneficial financial investment that would give a substantial return on investment. Before I wind up, I want to make a brief comment on the fact that the Minister of Finance (Mr. Fielding) and other members of his government say they haven't raised taxes. But, of course, we have a bill before the Legislature at the moment, Bill 5, which puts a new tax on the sale of cannabis.

The government has called it a social responsibility fee but has given not any evidence that it will do the studies needed to provide the knowledge and basis for understanding the net harm and the net benefits from cannabis, and it's unsure that the money raised will actually address this–issues arising for cannabis use. This so-called responsibility fee is a tax, and the government shouldn't try and cover this up. The government needs to be forthright with people in Manitoba instead of using words to try to cover up what they're really doing.

So the honest assessment of this tax r eduction– property tax reduction is that there's no evidence that this is a wise use of borrowed money. There's no evidence that this will address poverty or help any of the social issues that we have in Manitoba. There's no

April 22, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2673 evidence at this juncture that it will provide economic benefit to all Manitobans and increase economic growth, or that it will benefit climate change. Mr. Deputy Speaker, the bottom line is that, you know, the government should have done more home- work on this, they should have provide d much better analysis of what's going to happen with this rebate. But so far as we can see at the moment and so far as we can judge right now, this doesn't appear to be a very good decision by this government.

It appears to be more moded by–motivated by trying to win votes rather than do things which are sensible and benefit Manitobans. So with this comments I await the presentations at the committee, and we will see what happens with the next steps, whether the government will decide to make some major r evisions or whether they want to continue to pursue an avenue which doesn't appear to be optimal for Manitoba. Thank you. * (15:30) Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): I just ran in from doing media on Bill 71, so I'm trying to get all my notes here and prepare to rivet the House.

I'm sure that everybody's going to be listening and just with so much engagement to my presentation. Before I begin on Bill 71, I do just want to take a quick moment –and I know that everybody in the House feels the same, but I don't think we've done it this week. I just want to acknowledge our clerks and everybody that is working behind the scenes for, you know, all of the, you know, online virtual stuff that's going on.

For Manitobans that may or may not be aware, we've spent the last two weeks–two and a half weeks, doing standing committee meetings that start typically from 6 p.m. and can go anywhere until–I think this last week or this week it was, like, midnight, 12:45, something like that. And so there's a lot of infra - structure; there's a lot of people that allows that work to go on, and allows MLAs to come into the com - mittee room and everything is done and all the infrastructure is in place. And so I just want to just take a moment to say miigwech for all of that ha rd work.

You know, that's time away from families and from walking our dogs and whatever we need to do. So I just want to say miigwech to everybody that allows us to be the best that we can be in this Chamber and serve the constituents that elected us. So thank you for that. You know, Bill 71: I know that our members have put a lot of words on the record in respect to Bill 71. And as most people know, I –typically, I'll post my videos. I post my videos because, obviously, Deputy Speaker, not everybody watc hes the livestreaming of what occurs in this building, in the Manitoba Legislative Assembly.

Often, you know, it's kind of like a bubble in here, you know, what–you know, things that are going on in here. We know what's going on; we get riled up about what's going on; we're concerned about what's going on. But often, you know, these things, you know, the public don't necessarily know what's going on. And to be fair, you know, I was –as most people know, I was hired by the Indigenous committee – Indigenous issues committee of Cabinet, back in November of 2010 as the special advisor on Indigenous women's issues. So I've actually been physically in the building since 2010.

And to be fair, I wasn't entirely sure what went on in this Chamber either. I mean, typically, I would suggest that you find out what goes on in this Chamber once you're actually in this Chamber. And so, you know, folks know that I post my videos and I post them to be able to share with the public what's going on in this Chamber, what's going on in respect of what the Premier (Mr. Pallister) and every single one of his PC caucus are allowing to go through in respect of legislation.

And so for the purposes of that, it's –you know, we operate on a calendar here in the Legislative Assembly, which means that, let's say the government bills that they–the legislative agenda that they want to see receive royal assent, they have to introduce those bills within a particular time frame in order for those bills to be guaranteed passage, in order for those bills to receive royal assent and so that they become law.

Bill 71 was not introduced within that deadline, so Bill 71 is a bill that is not guaranteed passage, and is only guaranteed passage if the government decides that they want to be flexible, if they want to work with opposition in letting Bill 71 go to second reading and receive royal assent. And so I think there's a couple of things that are really important to put on the record here :

(1) The timing of Bill 71 is super suspect. If you–if–for those folks that are political junkies and pay attention to the media and pay attention to what our Premier is doing

2674 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 22, 2021 this week or since he got elected, everybody should know, and ought to know, that our Premier, the member for Fort Whyte, has consistentl y been – particularly through this pandemic –the least liked Premier in all of Canada, across all provinces and territories, across all our jurisdictions; this current Premier, the Premier of Manitoba, is the least liked consistently. An Honourable Member: What's the topic here? Ms. Fontaine: Well, why is that important? That's important–because I hear some of the members asking what's the topic here.

If they would pay attention, they would know that Bill 71 was introduced–it was haphazardly put together and introduced at the exact same time when yet another poll came out and showed that, not only does everybody not like the Premier – which, again, is consistent across the board, across Canada–but the poll shows that it is pretty consistent that Manitobans in general don't like anybody on that side of the House and don't appreciate what anybody on that side of the House has done to impact on the lives of Manitobans–and mind-blown during a global pandemic. And so what do we have? Well, well, well.

We have Bill 71 in which the Premier is saying that he wants to give every Manitoban –but not fairly –but every Manitoban, he wants to give them a cheque, like he did with the seniors cheque that he gave out a couple of–I guess last year or–yes, I guess about a year ago. And he signed his name on this cheque and this cheque went out to all seniors –clearly a ploy to get seniors to like him again. Because even seniors, even PC seniors, don't like the Premier.

And so, you know, he is using the powers within his authority as the Premier to just dole out money, to give out cheques to those people that he thinks are going to vote him in. And so Bill 71 comes at the exact same time that that latest poll came that indicated so many members opposite are g

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Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	42-3-54b
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Volume / chapter	42nd 3rd hansardpdf 54b.pdf
Language	en
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