Manitoba Hansard — 24 May 1995 (Sitting 2, 36th Legislature, 1st Session)

36-1-2

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

First Session - Thirty-Sixth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Louise M. Dacquay Speaker Vol. XLV No.2 -1:30 p.m., Wednesday, May 24, 1995

Name ASHTON, Steve BARRETT, Becky CERILLI, Marianne CHOMIAK, Dave CUMMINGS, Glen, Hon. DACQUAY, Louise, Hon. DERKACH, Leonard, Hon. DEWAR, Gregory DOER, Gary DOWNEY, James, Hon. DRIEDGER, Albert, Hon. DYCK, Peter ENNS, Harry, Hon. ERNST, Jim, Hon. EVANS, Clif EVANS, Leonard S. FILMON, Gary, Hon. FINDLAY, Glen, Hon. FRIESEN, Jean GAUDRY, Neil GILLESHAMMER, Harold, Hon. HEL WER, Edward HICKES, George JENNISSEN, Gerard KOWALSKI, Gary LAMOUREUX, Kevin LATHLIN, Oscar LAURENDEAU, Marcel MACKINTOSH, Gord MALOWAY, Jim MARTINDALE, Doug McALPINE, Gerry McCRAE, James, Hon. McGIFFORD, Diane MciNTOSH, Linda, Hon.

MIHYCHUK, MaryAnn MITCHELSON, Bonnie, Hon. NEWMAN, David PALLISTER, Brian, Hon. PENNER, Jack PITURA, Frank PRAZNIK, Darren, Hon. RADCLIFFE, Mike REID, Daryl REIMER, Jack, Hon. RENDER, Shirley ROBINSON, Eric ROCAN, Denis SALE, Tim SANTOS, Conrad STEFANSON, Er\c, Hon. STRUTHERS, Stan SVEINSON, Ben TOEWS, Vic, Hon. TWEED, Mervin VODREY, Rosemary, Hon. WOWCHUK, Rosann MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Sixth Legislature Members, Constituencies and Political Aft"'iliation Constituency Thompson Wellington Radisson Kildonan Ste.

Rose Seine River Roblin-Russell Selkirk Concordia Arthur-Virden Steinbach Pembina Lakeside Charleswood Interlake Brandon East Tuxedo Springfield Wolseley St. Boniface Minnedosa Gimli Point Douglas Flin Flon The Maples Inkster The Pas St. Norbert St. Johns Elmwood Burrows Sturgeon Creek Brandon West Osborne Assiniboia St. James River East Riel Portage Ia Prairie Emerson Morris Lac du Bonnet River Heights Transcona Niakwa St. Vital Rupertsland Gladstone Crescentwood Broadway Kirkfield Park Dauphin La Verendrye Rossmere Turtle Mountain Fort Garry Swan River f!m N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. P.C. N.D.P.

N.D.P. P.C. P.C. P.C. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. Lib. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. N.D.P. Lib. Lib. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. P.C. P.C. P.C. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. P.C. P.C. N.D.P.

17 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, May 24, 1995 The House met at 1:30 p.m. PRAYERS ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS National Forest Week Hon. Albert Driedger (Minister of Natural Resources): Madam Speaker, I have a ministerial statement. Madam Speaker, National Forest Week took place between May 7 and May 13 of 1995. Members of the Manitoba Legislature, today each MLA has received a tree from the Manitoba Forestry Association in celebration of National Forest Week as has been the tradition for many years.

Manitoba has been celebrating National Forest Week for almost 50 years, and in honour of this special occasion the Manitoba Forestry Association is distributing 20,000 trees to Manitobans. Each MLA has received a tree to plant in his or her constituency to mark this special week. We also recognize the importance of a forest to all Manitobans. This government is committed to ensure the sustainable development of our forest and land resources, and the Department of Natural Resources manages and allocates forest resources for the best long-term social and economic benefits to Manitobans.

In Manitoba, we plant more than 11 million trees annually and use natural regeneration to ensure that future forests meet environmental as well as industrial needs. We all recognize the importance of forests for wildlife habitat and recreation, and we are here to ensure that future generations can also enjoy and appreciate our forests. We have maintained our support for National Forest Week and Manitoba Forestry Association educational materials and continue to work in partnership with this organization to demonstrate co-operative sustainable forest management.

Madam Speaker, I want to congratulate and thank the Manitoba Forestry Association for its efforts and encourage all Manitobans to plant a tree. Thank you. *

(1335) Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin): Madam Speaker, I wish, too, to express our support for any co-operative sustainable forest development that this government is willing to undertake. I look forward to the day when it does actually get serious about this problem. I offer any kind of support from this side of the House when I see that happening. Thank you. Introduction of Guests Madam Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the Speaker's Gallery, where we have with us this afternoon His Holy Highness Sant Roshan Singh of Maqsudpur, Punjab, India.

On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you this afternoon. Also in the gallery, we have with us this afternoon from Laureate Academy ten Grades 10 to 12 students under the direction of Mr. Bill Rambo. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for St. James (Ms. Mihychuk). We have seated in the public gallery from River West Park School forty Grade 9 students under the direction of Mr. Gary Perrett. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs (Mr. Ernst).

Also, we have with us from the Ralph Brown School thirty Grades 5 and 6 students under the direction of Mrs. Cora Duffy. This school is located in the

18 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May24, 1995 constituency of the honourable member for St. Johns (Mr. Mackintosh). On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you this afternoon. ORAL QUESTION PERIOD Winnipeg Arena Provincial Funding Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): My question is to the First Minister. On June 24, 1994, less than a year ago in this Chamber, the Premier rose to table the Burns report. The Burns report concluded that $30 million of public money was not enough to support a new arena facility for the Winnipeg Jets.

The Premier quoted at that time that the taxpayers will have to fund the total cost estimated to be $111 million for the new facility. The Premier went on to state in this House that he cannot, and I will quote, in all good conscience expect Manitobans to fund a $Il l-million facility. I would ask the Premier why this was unacceptable to his conscience before the election and why now after the election it is acceptable to the conscience of the Premier, Madam Speaker. *

(1340) Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, the member opposite is very well aware of the method in which the MEC attempted to raise monies from the private sector to fund the purchase of a team, as well as a new facility for hockey in Manitoba. Their efforts which arrived at approximately, I believe, about $40,000 to $45,000 offu ndraising were inadequate to be able to both fund the acquisition of a team and also contribute to the development of a facility. A new proposal came forward led by Mr.

Asper and others who joined on with the efforts of MEC and made a proposal that they would not only raise the funds to purchase the team but create an endowment fund that would take care of ongoing losses for the foreseeable future of the team.

That significantly increased the target on their part to in excess of $1 00 million on the understanding that the private sector would provide a facility, the construction of a facility, called an entertainment complex for the ongoing use of the citizens of Manitoba that would recognize the major investment being made for the acquisition, operation and covering of losses for the team.

That proposal was one that we considered very carefully, and given the fact that it resulted in us not only getting $1 0 million back in direct revenues to the taxpayer from the construction of the facility but $6 million a year of tax revenues afterwards, we decided that this was a reasonable proposition, Madam Speaker. Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, regrettably, the Premier did not answer the question.

The question was, on June 24 of 1994, why was it against the conscience of the Premier to go ahead with $111 million-this was before MEC was created-and the Premier did not answer the question, why is it acceptable to his so-called conscience after the election? Madam Speaker, during the election campaign, on many occasions, the Premier stated that he would only place $10 million of taxpayers' money on the table. This is months after MEC was created.

In fact, at the end of March, on a CBC debate which was covered by all the media outlets, the Premier said that he would cancel the operating loss agreement, and the only amount of taxpayers' money he would spend would be limited to $1 0 million. Why did he say one thing before the election and proceed with more money well in advance of that after the election, Madam Speaker? Mr.

Filmon: Madam Speaker, I, in the response to the first question, did indicate to the Leader of the Opposition that, as a result of the private sector coming forth with a proposal to raise considerably more money than the original proposal that was there, on the understanding that the public sector would create a facility, an entertainment complex, that would be there for the use and enjoyment of generations of Manitobans to come, we made the decision, given that the tax

May24, 1995 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 19 revenues would be $10 million directly from the construction of the facility to the provincial government and $6 million a year from the operations of the team within that facility, that there was a direct benefit to the taxpayers of Manitoba and there was reason for us to entertain that thought and to go into that agreement, which we did. We then proposed to the other two levels of government who subsequently have indicated their commitment to the construction of the complex. *

(1345) Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, the Burns report and the Mauro report dealt with the whole issue of taxpayers' so-called return all the way through, and the Premier said, it is unconscionable to proceed with $111 million dollars, last June, prior to the election. Then, during the election and at the end of March, he said, and I quote: Only $10 million. At the Taxpayers Association debate, again covered by the media, the Premier then promised, again, only $10 million and cancellation of the operating loss agreement.

What democratic mandate has the Premier got from the people of Manitoba to maintain his word when he promised $10 million, and now, after the election, he is proceeding with amounts of money well beyond what he promised in the election? How can he say one thing in the election, one thing prior to the election, and do something completely opposite which he condemned before the election? That is the essence of the question. Mr.

Filmon: One could ask why it is that the Leader of the Opposition, when it appeared as though the Jets were not going to be able to remain in Manitoba after the election, said: Why did the Premier not do something about it? He promised to save the Jets during the election campaign, and he has broken his promise. That is what he said. He also said to other people, Madam Speaker, that if he were in office, he would have found a way to save the Jets. That is the kind of duplicity that we get from the Leader of the Opposition all the time.

He gets away with it and he expects that other people are not going to notice the sorts of things that he says, but we have noticed and so has the public. That is why the public did not elect him as the Premier. Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, the government has condemned to the conscience of the Premier $111 million. The Premier has not answered that question. Why was it acceptable to be against his conscience before the election, and now, to change his mind after the election, it is acceptable?

During the election, on three separate occasions, the Premier said his limit was $10 million He said it in the CBC debate which was covered by all the media, the radio debate. He said it at the Taxpayers Association and four days before the election, he again said on the CJOB all-party debate, and I quote: The $10 million is all and the limit we are going to put on the table. What democratic mandate did the Premier receive in the election campaign to go beyond $10 million, Madam Speaker? Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition has asked the same question a third time.

I will respond, again, that the proposal that was put forward by Mr. Asper and the new group of people who got involved, involved them raising a considerable amount of money greater than their original proposal. Instead of about $45 million, they were now coming up with $110 million which saw them have the ability not only to buy the team but create an endowment fund that would provide for ongoing losses that would assure the ongoing operations of the Jets here. Business Plan Tabling Request Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): The issue here is the word of the Premier.

On four occasions, he condemned what he is now agreeing to. Three times during the election campaign, the Premier promised only $10 million. How can Manitobans listen and believe the Premier on any

20 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May24, 1995 subject if during the election campaign he says one thing and he does something different shortly thereafter? That is the issue. Madam Speaker, can the Premier table today, because he condemned other parties in the past for asking for support for the Jets-in fact, he condemned the fonner member for Crescentwood for a $30-million proposal in 1990 without a business plan.

Can the Premier table today the full business plan, all of the costs to the taxpayers, directly and indirectly, all the conditions, all the revenue considerations in tenns of the rent that will be paid back to the public who are paying for a whole new arena? Can he table that in the Chamber today in light of the fact that he has always said before that he will not proceed with any public money without a plan first? Hon.

Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, as I have indicated, the proposal is that the private sector will provide the funding for the purchase and acquisition of the control of the Winnipeg Jets Hockey Club, as well as for the ongoing funding of any losses and the operational costs of that team, and the public sector will be constructing a new arena facility, an entertainment complex, that will be provided for the future use and enjoyment of all Manitobans. *

(1350) Agreement Tabling Request Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, the Premier did not answer the question. Given the fact that he has broken his word on four occasions in the last nine months, we want to see it in writing, and I think all Manitobans have a right to see it in writing, because they heard the Premier say time and time again, $1 0 million is our limit, $1 0 million is our limit, $10 million is our limit, before the election. Quite honestly, Madam Speaker, that is why the people of Manitoba deserve to see it in writing.

Finally, Madam Speaker, the Premier has said before that he required an ironclad agreement, an ironclad agreement of 20 years-no weasel words, no escape clauses, no notwithstanding clauses-a 20-year agreement that the team would stay in the city of Winnipeg or the province of Manitoba prior to any money-any money, let alone the $37 million or $45 million being forwarded by our public to the building of this arena.

Can the Premier table today the ironclad agreement, the full agreement, because we found before with the operating loss agreement, Madam Speaker, what the Premier said was not what actually happened in the end. Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, as the member knows full well, negotiations are ongoing among the private-sector partners. In fact, the acquisition of the team and all that detail continues ongoing, so we are not yet at a stage where we will negotiate that agreement, and we have not yet put any money forward or made any contractual obligations.

At this point, we are dealing with the matters in principle, and when the private sector gets their part of the agreement together, then we will be able to proceed with matters such as he has raised. Winnipeg Arena Provincial Funding Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance, who is apparently playing the point position on the arena deal.

We are asking that the minister acknowledge clearly and explicitly the nature and level of expenditures associated with the private-sector purchase of the Winnipeg Jets and with the so-called endowment fund to offset the ongoing massive losses of the Jets. Specifically, Madam Speaker, what are the estimated tax expenditures his government and the federal government are preparing to make to subsidize the MEC owners and the private donors to the endowment, or, in other words, the losses sinking fund? What is the size of those expenditures you are going to make?

May 24, 1995 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 21 Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, as the Premier (Mr. Filmon) just indicated, literally while we are meeting, discussions are ongoing between the private-sector group here in Manitoba and the current owners of the Jets in terms of finalizing an agreement that will lead to a Manitoba solution with a change in ownership here in Manitoba, which will lead ultimately then, if that is successful, to the development of a facility here in our province. When those agreements are concluded, they will be brought forward.

Everybody is working aggressively to conclude those as soon and as quickly as possible, and they will be outlined and disclosed at that time, Madam Speaker. Donations-Tax Deductibility Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): To the same minister, Madam Speaker, can the minister confirm that he has sought and received a full and formal legal opinion which he can share with this House as to the tax status of the donations to the losses sinking fund by the thousands of Manitobans who were led to believe that their donations would be tax deductible? Have you such an opinion? Hon.

Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, the issue of tax deductibility on any donations is a matter to be dealt with between the private-sector group and Revenue Canada. When they have that kind of information provided, they will be forthcoming with that. Madam Speaker, whether or not the kind of structure that is put in place qualifies for tax deductibility is a matter to be determined by Revenue Canada That will be a matter to be discussed between the private sector and Revenue Canada, and we await the decisions of the federal government and Revenue Canada on that issue. *

(1355) Mr. Sale: Again to the Minister of Finance, Madam Speaker, does the minister then endorse the views of Mr. Asper who has stated that donations to offset the losses of the Winnipeg Jets are just like donations to the Christmas Cheer Board or to the Children's Hospital Research Foundation? In other words, does the minister endorse the view that the Winnipeg Jets are now a charity? Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, I am not sure if the honourable member is looking for my opinion on comments made by Mr. Asper. Those are Mr. Asper's comments, and, obviously, we all judge those comments individually.

I have outlined for the member and the members opposite how the process works, where the determination lies in terms of whether or not the matter is tax deductible as a donation, and we will await the ruling of Revenue Canada. Dauphin Recreation Centre Funding Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Rural Development. Many rural Manitobans have watched the flip-flops of this government over funding both a second arena and the Winnipeg Jets with a great deal of concern.

Can the minister tell rural Manitobans whether provincial commitments for important projects such as the Dauphin recreation centre will be affected by an extra $30 million or more that the Premier (Mr. Filmon) has now committed to the Winnipeg Jets project? Hon. Leonard Derkach (Minister of Rural Development): Madam Speaker, I would just like to inform the new member for Dauphin that, indeed, it is this government that made a fairly substantial commitment to a new complex in the Dauphin area that would serve the Parkland Region.

In essence of looking at the balance in the province, I have to tell this House that, indeed, we do look at every region of the province and try to ensure that there are facilities that can be enjoyed by the citizens in all regions of this province.

22 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May24, 1995 It is for that reason that we made a very substantial commitment to the Dauphin area for a complex in the Dauphin community. Mr. Struthers: I am aware that the headline in the Dauphin Herald is about $600,000 worth of money that you put into this fund, and I am sure you got as much out of the headline as possible. Is this governm ent prepared to top up support for the Dauphin recreation centre, so that the arena can be built to provide a necessary facility in Dauphin? Mr.

Derkach: Madam Speaker, the agreement that was reached with regard to the Dauphin complex was one that was done by three levels of government through the infrastructure program. As a matter of fact, there has to be a commitment both locally and from the federal government. In that respect, we have, indeed, been very generous with the infrastructure program to the Dauphin community, because we recognize the need for that facility in the Dauphin area and also the fact that that arena, that facility, will serve more than just the community of Dauphin but, indeed, will serve that region of the Parkland area Mr.

Struthers: Will this minister commit to assist the construction of the Dauphin arena as a priority?-as this is a very urgent issue in the community, the arena Mr. Derkach: Madam Speaker, we have made a commitment to that arena through the infrastructure program. Our commitment is a solid one through the infrastructure program. Granville Lake, Manitoba Negotiations Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas): Madam Speaker, as members of this Assembly may be aware, I represent a riding where aboriginal people comprise 50 percent of the electorate.

Members are also aware that I represent all of those people in my riding without differentiating between aboriginal and nonaboriginal, because to do otherwise would be regarded as not doing my job or even being racist. When will this Premier start representing all of the people of Manitoba, instead of saying to aboriginal people all the time, you are aboriginal, you are out of luck, you are a federal ward, and besides, you are creating havoc with my statistics on child poverty? When will this Premier represent all of Manitoba, including- *

(1400) Madam Speaker: Order, please. The question has been put. Bon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, we do represent all Manitobans. The Constitution assigns certain responsibilities for jurisdiction, responsibilities that are clearly delineated in the Con stitution and responsibilities that, I might add, are referred to by the leadership of the aboriginal people.

When they say publicly that we, the province, are not involved in any of the discussions with respect to self government because we have no jurisdiction over the aboriginal people of this province living on reserves and that they will only deal with the federal government on those matters, they have clearly spoken that they do not regard us as having any jurisdiction over those people. They have said it publicly, and they have argued it to the point that the federal minister, Mr.

Irwin, has not allowed this government to have any say or any part of the discussions with respect to aboriginal self government of the Status aboriginals living in this province. They have delineated it. His people, the aboriginal people and leadership, have said so publicly, Madam Speaker, and those are the circumstances in which we find ourselves. Mr. Lathlin: You know, this government- Madam Speaker: The honourable member for The Pas, please pose your supplementary question now. Mr.

Lathlin: What is the status of negotiations between Mathias Colomb First Nation and this government over the Granville Lake situation?

May24, 1995 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 23 Has the First Minister (Mr. Filmon) met with anyone on this yet, or is this government going to continue to pretend that poverty is somebody else's responsibility? Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Family Services): Madam Speaker, I thank my honourable friend for that question because it does give me the opportunity to stand and reiterate and talk about one of the questions that was asked by his colleague the critic for Family Services just before the last session ended.

I want to quote from the critic's question to me that does indicate clearly, I will quote, that both my colleague the Minister of Northern Affairs (Mr. Praznik) and myself had written to the federal minister responsible for aboriginal affairs. He says, I quote: Since these people are treaty and a federal responsibility, I would like to ask the minister if she has received a response from the federal government about this offloading to this community-and he was referring to South Indian Lake.

Madam Speaker, the situation around Granville Lake is exactly the same situation that surrounded South Indian Lake, and his party was on record supporting our government in fighting the federal government for not living up to their financial responsibilities to Status Indians. I would hope that he would be onside in our fight and our dialogue with the federal government to live up to their responsibility. Mr. Lathlin: Madam Speaker, my question is directed to the First Minister again.

Will the Premier acknowledge that the people of Granville Lake are citizens of Manitoba and therefore deserve to be treated as such from this government? Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, just as the member for The Pas' colleague the honourable member for Burr ows (Mr. Martindale) indicated previously, the responsibility and the jurisdiction for Status aborigin als living in this province is with the federal government. They have always accepted that fiduciary and constitutional responsibility in the past, and I believe it is incumbent on all of us to ensure they continue to accept that responsibility.

That is the position the member for The Pas took when he was a chief. That is the position that is taken by the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs today, and that is the position that I believe all of us should take as Manitobans to ensure that the federal government lives up to its constitutional and fiduciary responsibilities. Child Poverty Rate Reduction Strategy Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): Madam Speaker, during the last several weeks, we have seen an unparalleled outpouring of passion by the citizens of Winnipeg and Manitoba towards keeping the Jets in this city.

What we also need is a similar outpouring of passion by this government towards alleviating the situation of the poor. Instead, what we have seen is only one increase in the minimum wage since 1990, cutbacks in social assistance rates, a lack of initiatives to create jobs for people on social assistance and no increase in social assistance rates in two years and five months. I would like to ask what the Minister of Family Services and her government plan to do by way of concrete action to change this situation and to address the very serious rate of poverty in this province. Hon.

Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Family Services): Madam Speaker, I thank my honourable friend for that question. I think our government's record stands for itself in the initiatives that we have undertaken in order to try to alleviate child poverty and ensure those that are on social allowances have the oppor tunity-we have always said that the best social security is a job.

I think this government has a track record that has tried to encourage private-sector activity and job creation-not job creation by government, Madam Speaker, but having those that can create the long-term jobs and help our economy in the province of Manitoba be here and make that happen. We have initiatives that are ongoing and underway with the federal government that are leading edge across Canada. We have the Taking Charge! initiative

24 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May24, 1995 which will help single parents on social allowance develop their own individual plan of independence and move off of social allowance into the workforce. We are working on Making Welfare Work projects with the City of Winnipeg. We have rural Making Welfare Work projects where the private sector has the opportunity to hire social assistance recipients with wage subsidy. We are trying to do our part. Mr.

Martindale: Madam Speaker, I would like to ask the minister what her government is going to do to reduce the disgraceful level of child poverty to which their policies have contributed-the worst record in Canada of any province. What are they going to do to reduce the disgraceful level of child poverty, and when will they increase social assistance rates which would affect this problem directly? Mrs. Mitchelson: Madam Speaker, I have to indicate that we in the Province of Manitoba have some of the most progressive tax incentives and initiatives for families living in poverty of all provinces across the country.

We leave more money in the pockets of those poorer Manitobans than almost any other province across the country does. If you look back to the budget-I guess it was a couple of years agcr-that was presented in the province of Saskatchewan by the New Democratic Party, it does indicate that those living in Manitoba with an income of $25,000 or less have the best tax incentive regime across the country, and it moves to families with an income of $50,000 have the second-best tax regime, and those with incomes of $75,000 and more are the third best across the country.

Madam Speaker, we have tried to do our part again in Manitoba to ensure those that are living with lower incomes have an opportunity to do better than others across the country. Social Assistance Rate Standardization Mr.

Doug Martindale (Burrows): Madam Speaker, can the Minister of Family Services assure those people who are employable and are on municipal assistance, particularly the 89 percent of the caseload on the City of Winnipeg assistance, that when this government takes over city or municipal assistance, which in theory is a good idea, there will not be a reduction in rates, because the rates certainly will be standardized?

Will the minister bring the rates for food for infants to eighteen-year-olds up to the level of the city level currently, or will they reduce them and thereby contribute further to the problem of child poverty in Manitoba? Bon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Family Services): Madam Speaker, I think I indicated, just at the end of the last session when a question very similar was asked by my honourable friend, that, indeed, we have taken a step towards ensuring that welfare in the city of Winnipeg will be a one-tiered system. Everything is under negotiation right now.

We are working and expecting or anticipating an interim report by the end of June that will give us some information on how we can go about making that a reality, but everything will be on the table for discussion and negotiation through that process. *

(1410) Northern Manitoba Physician Resources Mr. Gerard Jennissen (Flin Flon): Madam Speaker, my questions are for the honourable Minister of Health, and my first question is this. There is a crisis of doctor shortages in northern communities such as Leaf Rapids and Lynn Lake. Why did the minister not consult with northern residents and hospital administrators prior to implementing his new regulations on foreign doctors? Bon. James McCrae (Minister of Bealth): Madam Speaker, I thank the honourable member for this very important question. As the members of the medical profession continue, as they have for many years, to fmd their way to the

May24, 1995 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 25 more populated areas of the province, this leaves us with difficulties encountered from time to time in rural and northern communities. We are aware of the situation at Lynn Lake and at Leaf Rapids, and, indeed, I will be meeting with a delegation of people on Friday from Leaf Rapids. We are making every resource possible available to resolve those issues before they become critical. Mr.

Jennissen: A supplementary question, Madam Speaker: Why did the minister not urge the College of Physicians and Surgeons to grant an immediate extension to the Lynn Lake physician who will be leaving the province as a result of delays in government action on this situation? Mr.

McCrae: Madam Speaker, through our partnerships with organizations like the College of Physicians and Surgeons and the Manitoba Medical Association and Manitoba Health, we work on a continual basis to ensure that physician resources are available for people wherever they happen to live in Manitoba I feel very strongly about this, Madam Speaker, as I know the honourable member does, too, on behalf of the people in his constituency. By working together with him, and with the other organizations we have referred to, we are determined to ensure that Manit obans, wherever they live, have access to physician resources.

Indeed the Manitoba Centre for Health Policy and Evaluation tells us that this is the kind of service Manitobans have been getting, wherever they happen to live, and our determination is to ensure that that state of affairs continues. Mr. Jennissen: My fmal supplementary, Madam Speaker: Can this minister confirm when two new doctors will go to Leaf Rapids and assure the community as to how long these doctors will stay? Mr.

McCrae: It will be my hope, Madam Speaker, to try to answer those questions Friday when I meet with the delegation from Leaf Rapids, but if I do not have those answers by Friday, then it would be very shortly thereafter. I have made it very clear to Manitoba Health and to the others with whom we work that I insist that these matters be dealt with as a No. 1 priority. They are very, very important to the people in those areas. Motor Vehicle Recalls Safety Belts Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Consumer Affairs.

Yesterday, the federal government announced that as many as 900,000 motor vehicles are being recalled due to faulty seat belts. I would like to know, has the minister discussed this issue with the motor dealers in this province? Can he tell the House how many vehicles could be affected in this province? Hon. Jim Ernst (Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs): Madam Speaker, no, I have not spoken of this matter with the Motor Dealers Association in this province, and I do not know how many are affected here. Mr. Maloway: Madam Speaker, many of these cars have changed ownership more than once.

I would like to know what action has been taken to ensure that current owners will be informed of the recall. What action has this minister taken? Mr. Ernst: Madam Speaker, this recall was issued by the Government of Canada Perhaps he should address that to the minister responsible in Ottawa. Mr. Maloway: Madam Speaker, has the minister intervened with his federal counterparts? Has he asked his federal counterparts to change the law to give Canadians the same rights that Americans have in being able to force the auto manufacturers to correct the defects? Has he done his job and will he do his job? Mr.

Ernst: Madam Speaker, if memory serves me correctly, the issue in the U.S.A. is a voluntary recall by the auto manufacturers in that country, not an

26 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May24, 1995 insistence or a law or an issue raised by a government there. The federal government has acted in this case dealing with all of those cars. They have that responsibility and have taken that responsibility seriously. Pan Am Games Federal Funding Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): Madam Speaker, part of the proposed fmancing for the new arena is a $5-million advance from the federal government's Pan Am Games fund. I want to ask the Minister responsible for Sport (Mr. Ernst), what was the $5-million Pan Am Games money allocated for?

Can he tell us what the total federal government commitment for facilities development for the Pan Am Games in Manitoba will be? Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, after an analysis of the facility requirements by the Pan Am organizing committee and ·their administrative staff , they determined that there could be and would be benefits to a new facility for various sports as required, so that organization made a commitment of$5 million out of their total allocation.

The expectation is that the federal government has committed $3 7 million to the 1999 Pan American Games in Winnipeg, of which $7 million would be in kind, $30 million would be in cash. We as a provincial government have committed $23 million. The City of Winnipeg has made a commitment, and the expectation is that the community at large will probably end up contributing some $50 million to $60 million. So it is from that total allocation of funds that the $5 million to a complex is being earmarked. Ms.

Cerilli: Can the minister tell us what percentage the $5 million from the Pan Am Games fund represents from the total amount of money coming to Winnipeg for facilities development for the Pan Am Games? Mr. Stefanson: In terms of the total budget, it would be less than 5 percent in terms of the federal government commitment, if you are attributing it to that, although I think the Pan Am committee themselves are acknowledging that this is not money that is coming from any one level of government. The levels of government have made a commitment to the Pan American Games here in Winnipeg in 1999.

Based on their total funding, the committee is determining that they will use the facility. They will use it for various events, and it will save them an allocation of funds in many other areas, so they are committing the $5 million. If the honourable member is asking how does that relate to the $30 million, you can calculate what that is as a percentage, but the Pan Am committee is saying that it is a portion of their entire budget which is in excess of$100 million. Amateur Sport Government Support Ms.

Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): My final question is for the Minister responsible for Sport or the Minister ofFinance (Mr. Stefanson). Can we have a commitment from this government that monies allocated for facilities development at the arena will not jeopardize the Manitoba development programs offered through the Sports Federation, that we are not going to have money coming to the Pan Am Games and the arena at the expense of amateur sport development in Manitoba? Hon.

Jim Ernst (Minister responsible for Sport): I can indicate to my honourable friend that this government has been second to none in terms of its commitment to amateur sport in this province. We have, in fact, been exemplary in terms of our support for amateur sport development, sports of all kinds, up to and including national and international events, so that she need have no fear. Our continuing support for amateur support in this province will be ongoing. Manitoba Telephone Service Privatization Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): Madam Speaker, the Manitoba Telephone System is an important public

May 24, 1995 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 27 asset for all Manitobans, and many questions are being asked, given the ability of this government to change from day to day. We have seen that on the Jets. Questions are being asked about the future of the Manitoba Telephone System. I would like to ask the Premier if he can indicate whether this government has any plans whatsoever to privatize part or all of the Manitoba Telephone System. In fact, will he assure Manitobans we will maintain public ownership ofthe Manitoba Telephone System within the province of Manitoba as a Crown corporation? Bon.

Gary Film on (Premier): I can indicate that we do not have any plans to do that. We continue always to operate on a pragmatic basis. We continue to always look at ways in which we can ensure that our economy will grow, that we will take advantage of new changes in technology, of all of the things that are important to us as an economy and as a society. We are not driven ideologically or hidebound as are members opposite. We continue, obviously, to always keep an open mind on all opportunities that are presented to us, but we have no plans to do that. That is as much information as I can share with him.

Madam Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired. To continue debate on the proposed motion of the honourable member for Riel (Mr. Newman) for an address to His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor, in answer to his speech at the opening of the session, standing in the name of the honourable Leader of the official opposition. Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): I believe there is a nonpolitical statement across- *

(1420) NONPOLITICAL STATEMENT tOOth Birthday, Jessie Pallister Madam Speaker: I am sorry. With the House's indulgence, may I please revert to Nonpolitical Statements? Is there leave? Some Honourable Members: Leave. Madam Speaker: Leave has been granted. Bon. Brian Pallister (Minister of Government Services): I appreciate the opportunity to inform members of the House of an important event that is taking place this Sunday, May 28, in the constituency of Portage la Prairie. This is truly a momentous occasion for many family and friends of one of my good constituents who resides at the Douglas Campbell Lodge there.

It is her birthday, and not just any birthday. This is her 1 OOth birthday. It is someone whom I have had the great privilege of knowing and learning from. This great lady has taught me a lot about the history of our province, the history of our area, taught me a lot about the life that she has led and the life that many of our predecessors have led of toil, of family farm life. The hardship, the self sacrifice that she has endured in her life has obviously partly contributed at least to her good health and her long life. She has taught me a lot about family and about closeness.

I have benefited tremendously from this woman and from the wisdom of her age. I think we can all learn a lot from our elderly people. It is particularly significant to me to tell you her name is Jessie Pallister and she is my grandmother. Happy birthday, grandmother. ORDERS OF THE DAY THRONE SPEECH DEBATE (Second Day of Debate) Madam Speaker: To resume debate on the proposed motion of the honourable member for Riel (Mr. Newman) for an address to His Honour the Lieutenant Governor in answer to his speech at the opening of the session, standing in the name of the official Leader of the Opposition. Mr.

Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): It is an honour to rise to address the Speech from the Throne. We are paying tribute to people who have gone before us and taught us many things. It is an honour to rise today when the former member for Winnipeg North

28 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May24, 1995 David Orlikow is here in the gallery with us, a person who has served us very well. I would first of all like to start by thanking the people of Concordia. We all start our careers and our responsibilities and our obligations with the mandates we have been given by our constituents. I want to thank again the people of Concordia for my re-election. It is not something we take for granted. None of us should take for granted, ever, the responsibility that is given to us in the election campaign. I also want to congratulate all members in the Chamber for their election.

It is, again, when people are comparing their pluralities, et cetera, I just remind you that whether it is one vote, 35 votes or 3,500 votes, we all live on temporary employment by the people we serve. We can trade our election successes across the way but we all owe our debt of gratitude to the people we serve. We all owe our responsibilities, our hearts, our minds and I dare say our integrity for keeping our word, not just before and during the election but our word after the election. I also want to congratulate all the new members.

I understand it is one of the lowest turnover rates, as they say-to use that terminology, that terminology that is used in the workplace-one of the lowest turnover rates in the history of the province. From our side, we are pleased that it was a low turnover rate. From the other side, it would be less than honest to say we would not have preferred a higher turnover rate. But I want to congratulate members opposite, especially the new members. We look forward to all the speeches that will be made by new members of the Chamber.

We will try as much as possible from the tried and true traditions of heckling in the speeches and we try, as I say, as much as we can, but you are so colourful in your comments and have an ideological flourish from time to time that will be met by some ideological response, I am sure, and I hope you take that in the spirit of democracy. One must remember that the House of Parliament in England, of course, is even closer in contact between the members and they have, as I believe, even more members than chairs.

We come from a tradition of democracy that does appeal to differences to votes to a wonderful form of debate and, as I say, when ideological comments are made by new members, we applaud you, we do not agree with you and we will act accordingly. I also want to congratulate the new members on our side. We did not get the quantity of new members we wanted but we got quality, Madam Speaker. We have quality. [interjection] Well, the member for Brandon West (Mr. McCrae) should perhaps look in the mirror when he is making those comments, as I should as well. The member for Dauphin (Mr. Struthers) is to be applauded.

He is, obviously, filling a spot from the former member of Dauphin, a very, very credible member in this Legislature; the member for Flin Flon (Mr. Jennissen), again, representing the former member for Flin Flon, Mr. Storie; another excellent member of this Chamber, the member for Crescentwood (Mr. Sale), who follows on a long line of good people of the wrong political persuasion and we applaud his efforts today. We certainly have the member for Osborne (Ms. McGifford), our new member from that riding and the member for St. James (Ms. Mihychuk).

We are all very, very proud of the people that we have elected, and you will note that they are indeed from all regions of Manitoba. I note in the document produced by the Executive Council yesterday that they are proud of the balanced representation from all around Manitoba, representation that will ensure the views of all regions, quote, all regions. Well, I would remind members opposite, you are not represented in the North, and perhaps that explains- An Honourable Member: Yes, we are. Mr. Doer: Well, the Golden Boy looks north, I would say to the member for Lakeside (Mr.

Eons), but often the member's Executive Council do not look north when it comes to fair distribution of Manitoba's assets and Manitoba's investments. Perhaps that is the answer to the question that the member for The Pas asked in the last session of the Legislature. If it takes ducks to get highways built in the Interlake, why do you not consider the ducks in northern Manitoba adequate for northern highways here in the province of Manitoba?

May24, 1995 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 29 I would point out, too, Madam Speaker, that in the glow of victory for members opposite-and our middle name in our party's name, and we do print our party's name, is democracy, is New Democratic Party. We congratulate you on your mandate. We would point out that 57 percent of the people of Manitoba did not vote for you, so we will point that out- An Honourable Member: Two-thirds did not vote for you. Mr. Doer: That is right.

That is why we have to try harder, but when one has to consider the mandates we receive, we will be reminding the members opposite that 57 percent of the public did not vote for you. You do not have a dictatorship; you merely have a parliamentary majority, and we will hold you accountable to that in this Chamber. Madam Deputy Speaker, I want to wish you the best in your new role as Speaker in this Chamber. An Honourable Member: Not Madam Deputy Speaker. You have got to get it right, Gary. *

(1430) Mr. Doer: Well, you have had a lot longer to prepare your comments, obviously knowing your plans well in advance, but I am just now getting used to this new face in the Chair. We wish you well, Madam Speaker, in this Chamber. It is important that we have the balance between feisty and informed debate and decorum for the public. I think with the changing reality of television that it is important that we all realize how we look, how we act.

Even if we are engaged in debate that may be enjoyable, I might say, we must remember that how it might look on television might be very different from how it appears in this Chamber. I think it is impor tant for all of us to remember that the heavy responsi bilities that we all have, and we all have heavy responsibilities in representing the people of this province. We must not only carry out our responsibilities with decorum but we must be perceived to be carrying it out with decorum.

I would offer in this new term to do as much as I can-not to be absolutely quiet-but to do as much as we can on that score, because I think we have a lot of work to do. I also want to pay tribute to the previous Speaker. We had a lot of respect for his ability, his impartiality. I believe he had a lot of respect outside of this Chamber, and the member is to be congratulated. When we are commenting on changes the government are making, we believe that the new Speaker-without any disrespect, Madam Speaker, to your appointment by the Premier (Mr.

Filmon) just recently-we believe that Manitoba has to get into the 1990s. The House of Commons has moved to an elected Speaker. Many other Chambers in Canada have moved to an elected Speaker. On one hand the Premier talks about an elected Senate. We believe the Senate should be abolished. We do not believe the Speaker's position should be abolished. We do believe in a presiding officer for this Chamber, but we do believe that officer should have the electoral mandate through an election in this House. We will be bringing forward a private member's bill to correct that.

We hope that all members of the Chamber would want to have a vote on the presiding officer for all members in this Chamber. If we believe in democracy in our own constituencies, let us go into the 1990s and move ahead with legislation that we will bring forward in a positive way, Madam Speaker. I also want to pay tribute to the staff and the Pages in this Chamber. I know many Pages have gone on to run for elected office. Some Pages have gone into the media after being Pages in this Chamber, so they really know what goes on and what does not go on.

Some could provide some very interesting stories in the past, when we used to sit in many evening sessions, of what really went on in the sacred halls of this building. I know it is a great training. I know that we rely on them very much in their duties. This is the 125th anniversary of Manitoba's birthday as a province in Canada, and we want to congratulate people and volunteers that are working on the celebration of that anniversary.

30 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May24, 1995 We always were critical of the provincial government for eliminating Canadian history. Many members I think in their speeches yesterday talked about the role of history and the role of values in our community and how important it is for all of us in this Chamber. I would again ask the provincial government in this the 125th anniversary of Manitoba as a province not to leave as permissive Canadian history in our senior high schools. We believe that kids should learn Canadian history right throughout their years in high schools. It should not be permissive.

It should not be a decision made at local school boards.

It should not be at the whim of school boards across Manitoba It should be a core mandatory value in this province, and this, the 125th anniversary of the history of Manitoba as a province, let us reinstate Canadian history as a core subject right throughout Manitoba Madam Speaker, I also believe that we have to pay tribute in this, the 125th anniversary, to the contributions made to our great province by Manitoba's First Nations who of course are not celebrating their 125th anniversary here in Manitoba but I believe-and I have a number of experts around me-are celebrating anniversaries of centuries of development and community in our sacred land called Manitoba.

Many of the names of our communities, many of the names of our rivers, many of the names of our sections in our province, I dare say the name of our province, come from First Nations people. Yes, we celebrate the 125th anniversary of Manitoba as a province, but let us not forget and let us continue to incorporate the wonderful history and heritage of First Nations people who have begun this province and bequeathed tremendous amounts through their treaties, tremendous resources and opportunity for all of us.

Let us never forget in this celebration of Manitoba's history our treaties to the people who were first here. Let us not forget our obligations to the people who first founded our great province and first resided in our beautiful, beautiful province of Manitoba. Let us redouble our efforts to fulfill the treaties, because treaties are, after all, our word, and our word, I believe, is worth keeping. I believe that we have to do that here in the province of Manitoba. Madam Speaker, we believe that Manitoba is a province of hard work and fair play.

We believe that most Manitobans believe that this province should be run like a family where you celebrate the success of each member of your family. You celebrate the joy of their success, and you also as a family share in creating opportunities to make sure that each and every one of our members of our families is given a helping hand when they need it. We believe our province and our government should be run like a family.

We do not believe it should have the kind of bottom-line values that are so linear in a corporation where something is not profitable you cut it off and you rationalize and you do the things that you have to do. We believe this province is a family, and we believe that a province and a government should be operating with all of its citizens, yes, to celebrate its joys and successes, but when people need a helping hand the government is there to provide the bridge of opportunity to give those people that helping hand.

One of the disputes in this election campaign obviously was some of the bridge programs that have been eliminated by the Conservative government in the past number of years. We did not agree with the vision of a government that would cut back on ACCESS, New Careers and BUNTEP programs in the province of Manitoba. We did not believe in taking that money in public sector opportunity for people who needed the help the most in our society and diverting that money to corporate training grants.

Corporate training grants may be a great idea if you have the luxury of that money, but to take away money from the people who need the opportunity, to take away money from programs that have proven to be successful, to take away money from programs that have trained more aboriginal people to be teachers, nurses, doctors, engineers and social workers so they can return to their own communities as positive leaders in their community with positive professional accreditations, we think that was a mistake. * (1440 )

May 24, 1995 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 31 We · think that was a mistake, Madam Speaker, inconsistent with the values not only that we talked about in the last election campaign but many candidates on the other side talked about. It is a question of choices. Why would you give more money to car dealerships and less money to First Nations people who need New Careers, need ACCESS and BUNTEP?

I would ask the government in the spirit of co operation and Manitoba's 125th Anniversary to consider the fact that the two opposition parties, the Liberals and the NDP, campaigned to reinstate money for New Careers, community colleges, ACCESS and BUNTEP programs. Clearly, the majority of people did vote for that program. It was a very consistent message, and I would ask you to open your hearts and also open your minds to putting that money back to people who need it the most. Government's job is not to give resources and finances to companies that have the most.

It is government's job, in our opinion, to provide opportunity to get the bridges of opportunity so people can move from dependency, can move from welfare, can move from no opportunity and no hope to getting hope, getting opportunity, getting economic dependence and getting the tools to get that. I would ask the new members opposite to consider those programs. Even Sterling Lyon in his exercise in looking at government programs between '77 and '81 came to the conclusion that it was cost effective and smart to keep New Careers, ACCESS and BUNTEP programs here in the province of Manitoba.

Change your mind, Madam Speaker. This government, in our opinion, has a very, very secret style of governing. This government, in our opinion, is like an iceberg. It has to some degree its agenda above the water, programs above the water, and to a larger degree its real agenda, its real strategy, the real information for the public of Manitoba, the majority of which is below the water and below the surface for public debate. I say that regrettably. Let me consider a couple of examples. Let me just consider a couple of examples. Let us even start with the name of your political party.

It's an old saying, I guess my dad-we were talking about the values we were taught-and my fa ther used to tell me always worry about somebody who puts something in small print. Always worry about when the print is so small that you cannot even read it. Even worry more when you cannot even read it without even using a microscope. This is a government who had signs and all you members had all the signs on all your lawns and you were too ashamed of your party name to put it on your signs. Are you ashamed to be Progressive Conservatives? Are you ashamed to be Tories? Are you ashamed to be a political party?

Are you afraid to run on your political name, on your political philosophy, on your ideology? Do you think if the people knew your name they would not vote for you? Maybe you are right. But never be afraid of your values. If you want to hide your values from the people of Manitoba, how can they trust you on what you are going to do after the election? Is this the way you do business with the people of Manitoba, you do not even tell the people who you are? Is this honesty and integrity that we heard about yesterday? Is this openness that we heard about yesterday? Let us look at a couple of other examples.

Well, I remember the member for Pembina-it is interesting the member for Steinbach (Mr. Driedger) is sitting in the same seat as the member for Pembina-because he was the only one in the last election who ran as a Progressive Conservative, and look where that got him. It got him demoted from cabinet three years later. The slick communication strategy, I give you credit, you are a slick, slick operating machine as a political party, but that does not mean good government, that does not mean honesty, that does not mean integrity.

You may have good ads, but it is going to be very important for us to get the real public agenda out in the public. I think the public have a right to know. Many times you said one thing before the election campaign and another thing after the campaign. You said one thing in December in the Speech from the Throne that you presented, and then you said

32 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May24, I995 something else after the election campaign and during the election campaign. Let me give you an example. Before the election campaign, you said: My government is concerned about poverty and children growing up in poverty and their prospects for a better life. That is what you said before the campaign. After the campaign you say-it is almost like Pontius Pilate-you wash your hands of the problem, almost a scene out of Macbeth, washing your hands again from the problem. You are always washing your hands before you point the finger at somebody else.

Madam Speaker, you again say on child poverty that it is Ottawa's responsibility now. It is Ottawa's responsibility to deal with child poverty. It is Ottawa's responsibility that Manitoba has the highest rate of child poverty in Canada. Well, where does the buck stop? Why is it Ottawa's responsibility when Manitoba has the highest rate of child poverty? Why did you say you were concerned about it before the election? These are children, they are our future, they are the most important people we have to deal with in this House. These are the people who cannot represent themselves in this Chamber.

The highest rate of child poverty in Canada-and you can put out documents that says, oh, we are concerned about it before the election, and then you can cynically say it is Ottawa's responsibility after the election. Now, do you not care about that? Did not the members opposite read that? Do you not want to represent the future of the children here in this province? Do they not get a chance with you? Is it jurisdictional buck passing from you? Is there any integrity, is there any honesty, is there any commitment to the children? Many of us come from decent homes.

Many of us do not know what it is like to have to go to a food bank at night. Many of us do not know about the 30 percent of kids that are now increased in one year who are utilizing our food banks all across this province. Many of us are worried about whether we are going to, you know, be able to enjoy two holidays a year or one holiday a year or whether we are going to be able to afford this or that. Maybe we do not have those realities, unfortunately, of those kids that are in poverty, but that does not mean to say that you can say one thing before the election and say something after the election.

That is not good enough for the people of this province. It is cynical, it is slick and it is not good enough. What about a nutrition program for children? What about an affordable daycare program for children? What about a minimum wage strategy for our families? What about making work more affordable for the working poor? What about a strategy to deal with prenatal programs? What about a strategy to deal with jobs and work and opportunity? What about a strategy to deal with the many families now that are faced with part-time jobs with no hope of getting full-time jobs because of differential benefits?

What are you going to do about it? Why did you not come in with a ten-point plan today on child poverty, or yesterday? How can you possibly sit in your seats and say it is Ottawa's responsibility? I have seen slick governments before, I have seen slick speeches before, but to pass that off to Ottawa, I think was morally reprehensible. I am very, very disappointed and so are members on this side. One thing before the election, another thing after the election. Let us deal with the honesty of this government.

Let us deal with the integrity of this government, because honesty, we have differences of beliefs, we have differences of values, and that is good. That is what a democracy should be all about, but let us deal with the integrity of issues and honesty ofthe government. In I9 90 I remember the former member for Crescentwood asked the Premier about the new arena, and he said, I could not possibly put $30 million total public money-I 0, I 0 and I 0-into a new arena without a full business plan I could table in this House. (Mr.

Marcel Laurendeau, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair) Then the Premier went and signed an operating loss agreement in December of I9 9I, and everybody stood up like Neville Chamberlain and said, we have peace in our time, the Jets are here forever, hallelujah. I have saved the Jets, says the Premier. When we asked what

May24, 1995 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 33 the costs would be, he said, oh, it will only be $5 million, a small price to pay. We will have tax revenues and indirect benefits and payrolls and on and on. This is a recorded announcement. You have heard them before. Why did we have to go to the Auditor for two years in a row? Members opposite talk about honesty and integrity. Why did we have to go to the Auditor to find out that you knew, the government knew, the Premier knew, and with help from the public, that the losses would be $43.5 million?

The previous member for Rossmere, Harold Neufeld, said, I had no idea; I was a member of Treasury Board; I had no idea that it was $43.5 million. It took an Auditor to produce that money that went before the Premier and his negotiating group that looked awfully reminiscent of the old gang of 18 at City Hall, that handled this. Is there any coincidence that everybody that touched this thing in City Hall is touching it now? Is it any coincidence we have not resolved this darn thing ever since the bunch of them, the gang of them, got hold of this deal years ago?

I mean two former deputy mayors, and the head of Works and Operations, they have been handling this darn thing for 15 years, and we still do not know what is going on. They still cannot give us a straight answer. They still cannot tell us how much it is going to cost. All they have got is big shovels of our money that keep going into this team, shovelful after shovelful after shovelful without any accountability whatsoever. Now, how do you members opposite take this? Well, the Jim McMahon of this government, you know, the foghorn across the way-and I am not referring to any individual member, Mr.

Deputy Speaker-but, you know, there was a question asked. He laughs at his jokes. He claps at his statements, sometimes offbeat, If it was not so serious, you would be very funny-a heartbeat away from the big job, you know, lock up your family when he is in control. *

(1450) Where are the rural members? Where are you? This question was asked in the Brandon Sun yesterday. Where are you? Is the gang of 18 from City Hall now the surrogate government in Manitoba just because they messed it up in the last number of years at City Hall and they are going to mess it up again and keep shovelling more of our money? It does not matter? Where are you? Can you not stand up to them? An Honourable Member: I missed the point. Mr. Doer: He sure did miss the point. A lot of you are missing the point. What about the integrity of the word of the government?

We have now had the leader of the government, the Premier of the province, who should be setting the example for honesty and integrity, and I know this has been a nightmare for him over the years at City Hall and then with his deputy mayor and his other deputy mayor and the Minister of Finance and operating loss agreements that will only be five and pop up at 43, but last year Jim Burns produced a report. The Premier got the report and tabled it in this Chamber. He said: $111 million is unconscionable. It is against my conscience. It is against my conscience as the Premier of the province.

Was it against his conscience only before the election? Does his conscience and his word change after the election? What kind of conscience do we have over here? How can $111 million in June of '94 be against the conscience of the Premier and now how can it be acceptable to the conscience of the Premier after? Now, the government talked about MEC today. MEC was not even created when he said, it is against my conscience. It was created to again amend the agreement that amends the agreement that amends the agreement that the Premier and his gang got involved in years ago.

What about people across the way who come from chambers of commerce that say, do not give any public money to private corporations? Do those feelings not feel anything to you? Do they not matter any more? I have always wondered why the Chamber of Commerce, on the one hand-first of all, it runs deficits all the time; I always thought that was interesting-but on the one hand can say do not give any money to private corporations and can be doing the

34 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 24, 1995 Hallelujah Chorus on $111 million with no business plan. I do not understand it. Now, let us go back to the word of the Premier. On March 29 , in the election campaign, $10 million was his final and bottom line. That is my position to put on the table, no more. That is my limit. I will not go any further. I will cancel the operating loss agreement. Ten million dollars is it. That was in Brandon in the bullpen session at the CBC radio debate broadcast all across Manitoba My word, my integrity, the integrity of my Film on team government on the line.

April 13 , the same day the NHL met with the team owners-whatever the team owners were that day, that week, part of which was �h, I did not know anything about that meeting, of course, said the Premier. Nobody ever informed me what happened on that April 13 meeting. I mean, Jules Benson and Mike Bessey and all these people, they never tell me what is going on. · Oh, I do not know what is going on. I only found out after the election campaign. We all believe you, sir, yes, we all believe you. I did not know what was going on. Trust me. I am out of the loop, yes.

April 13 , at the Taxpayers Association, again, the same day as the NHL met with MEC, the Premier again said that evening, in front of the media and the public ofManitoba at the Taxpayers Association, $10 million is all we are going to put in the team. That is it, fini, no more. That is it. April 21 , CJOB debate, all-party debate, again, the Premier's word four days before the election, $10 million. That is it. That is fini. That is all. No more. That is the only amount of money, all the amount of money we are going to put on the table. So here we have a serious question. What mandate do you have?

What kind of contempt do you have for your own word? When one is contemptuous of one's own word, one is contemptuous quite frankly of the whole democratic process. It is not as if this thing was three years ago you gave your word. You gave your word three times during the election campaign. You are not only contemptuous of your own word, sir, you are contemptuous of democracy because you have a mandate for $10 million. I accept that. We did not totally agree with you.

I accept that you have that mandate, but you do not have any democratic mandate to mislead the public of Manitoba and say one thing on three occasions during the election campaign and just the sky is the limit after the election campaign. You have no authority to do that. Mr. Deputy Speaker, in 1993, I asked the Premier, would he put any public money into a new facility without an agreement to keep the team in Manitoba for 20 years, because we are going through the Peter Pocklington episode, who did have a lease with the Northlands Coliseum.

Those leases always have escape clauses, especially if you are only paying one dollar in lease. What are you going to do? Oh, okay, we will leave in five years and then we will pay one dollar a year in penalty, because that is all we are supposed to pay. If you are going to build an $I ll -million facility, where is the iron-clad agreement? I do not mean giving us one clause, because I do not trust you not to have another clause somewhere else. I want the whole agreement. The public of Manitoba deserve the whole agr eement, the whole thing.

We do not want some secret deal with the new owners of the team that allows them to take this team out of Winnipeg, after you build the facility for five times more than what you talked about the day after the next election, because you have not done your due diligence. And members opposite, because a couple of fans hung the Premier (Mr. Filmon) in effigy for misleading them during the election, will sign anything away in terms of dealing with this issue. Iron clad means iron clad; 20 years means 20 years.

If you, sir, sign anything with one weasel word that allows them to break this agreement within the 20 -year period, you have again broken your word. How many more times? I guess it does not matter after four or five times, but I say it does matter. I say that we do not want a Repap agreement that talks about a billion-dollar expansion and a thousand more jobs. We do not want all those wishy-washy agreements that you brought here in the past that have all fallen apart like a house of cards. We want iron clad agreements from members opposite.

May 24, 1995 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 35 We also want to know why the Premier again, in his words in Estimates last year, said that he would not favour any tax deduction or any provision from the federal government to reduce taxation by any foundation. The Premier criticized that proposal last year and he pointed out, rightly so, that would cost the taxpayers additional money. We do not want him to break his word there either. You have broken your word on the amount of money you are putting in there. You are breaking your word on the tax provision. We do not have an iron-clad agreement.

We do not have a business plan. ' Let us look at the real numbers: $37 million, four times what you promised; $9 million in our shares that I understand we are going to hold, that is $46 million; $7 million or $8 million on tax loss provisions, that gets us over $50 million. We do not know what the provisions are for the revenues into the new arena What are going to be the provisions for the concessions, the lease, and where is the iron-clad agreement? You said before, sir, that you would not sign anything without a business plan that you could table in this House.

You condemned the former member for Crescentwood for even talking about a $10-million contribution here in this Chamber. It seems to me what you condemned the former member for Crescentwood for doing is exactly opposite, times five, of what you are doing now in this Chamber-one thing before the election, another action after the election. I think that is unfortunate from the head of government, from the senior officer in this Chamb er-! think it is important whether we agree or disagree. I think we should have disagreements in this Chamber on the basis of beliefs, on values, on decisions on issues.

I do not think we should be asking questions on the first day of this session. I find it regrettable that we have to ask questions about the word of the government. I think that is very, very unfortunate and very, very unfortunate for the people of Manitoba. Again, secrecy, secrecy, secrecy. Let me give you some other examples. The government had a report on healthy children for nine months and only released it the day before the election campaign, on the Friday afternoon. Again, why were children so cynically treated that you could not bring in a health program prior to the election campaign?

Before the election you had 102 committee reports on health care. Where are they? Why have they not been made public? Who is hiding them, and why? *

(1500) Let me give you a couple of examples. Every MLA in this room has people and residents in personal care homes. If you care about people and residents in personal care homes, you are going to require the Minister of Health (Mr. McCrae), who has been withholding a report on personal care homes, to make that public. The public paid for it. The public is entitled to have it, and you have a responsibility to take those secret reports and make them public. You have had five reports on the conflict of interest on doctors and private labs, a $100 million health care item.

Why have you kept that hidden, your report out of the Health Services Commission? Why are you not dealing with this issue-the Hammond report, the rural lab report, on and on and on? You have got a document that says remove the conflict of interest from doctors owning their own labs-no action after seven years from the government. Secrecy and no ability to move. You have had a report dealing with many other items of the 102 committees in health care, and the biggest area of secrecy of course is before the election there was a pause on health care cutbacks, there was a pause of what reductions would be made.

Of course, after the election, I suspect-! hope I am wrong-but we are going to see cutback after cutback after cutback. It will not be those slick ads of the Premier walking on the riverbank talking about protecting health care after the election. I guess that ad was similar to previous ads we have seen in the past. I suspect we are going to see the pause come off with a vengeance. Of course the only place the pause has come off in health care is in Flin Flon, The Pas and Thompson.

Again, as we saw from the three-page document, the North does not matter because it is already represented by government even if they do not

36 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 24, 1995 have any northern MLAs-government that only reapplied the cutbacks to northern communities. As I said before, where is the healthy child program that you promised in the Speech from the Throne previous? Where is the action? Where is the nutrition program, the prenatal program? Where is the strategy to deal with fetal alcohol syndrome? Where is your strategy to deal with nurses in schools as we proposed? There is nothing in this document. There is nothing in this paper. In the election campaign you did make an announcement on children and health.

This is a government that cut the audiology services for preschool children. This is the government that cut back dental nurses across rural and northern Manitoba. Then you have the audacity to come back in the campaign and basically promise something for healthy children that you cut in government. What cynicism of the people in terms of that proposal. Slick ads on health care, slick promises in the campaign, but very, very sick decisions made with children.

We have gone down from 6,000 kids in preschool ages getting tested for audiology programs and treatment programs from when the government was in office in 1991 to now up to just over 3,000 kids a year. The waiting list for preschool children is 18 months. The longer you wait for assessment, the longer it takes to get treatment. The longer it takes to get treatment, the more it costs the child, the family and the community. It is not cost effective.

An ounce of prevention, an ounce of assessment, is worth a pound of treatment, and we would have expected more from this government after we saw a similar promise in the election campaign. Another area where we saw a considerable amount of slick advertising was in the area of crime. Here is a government that had an ad with the Premier shutting the jail door. It kind of reminded me of the Premier paddling the canoe in 1990. I always worry when the Premier has an·ad on a specific subject because usually it means that, after the slick advertising campaign is finished, we are in for a lot of trouble.

How can you possibly cynically run on crime, Mr. Deputy Speaker? [inteijection] Well, one should be very careful. I know the member opposite is a good friend of the former member for Springfield, but-[inteijection] Well, I think it is unfortunate that members opposite think-Manitoba is the only province where the crime rate has gone up two years in a row, and the only thing you can give us is a cynical, slick ad campaign. There are no community-based prevention programs. There are no crime-prevention programs in our communities. They have been reduced by this government.

They have reduced the Victim Assistance Programs. They have reduced the support for police officers on the street. They have reduced the programs that would keep kids out of trouble. They have reduced the amount of investment in community recreation. They have not introduced the crime prevention foundation, which is necessary. Mr. Deputy Speaker, we believe in individual and community responsibility to· prevent crime. We also believe very strongly in individual accountability when a crime is committed, and we need more than slick advertising Republican ads from this government.

We need a strategy to keep our kids occupied. We need a strategy to keep our young people out of our prison system and keep our young people in our schools where they belong, and we do not see it from the Conservative government opposite. There are slick ads on education, the slick ads of the Premier coming out of a computer in education. I know that Brian Mulroney ran great ads in the 1988 campaign, and now you will not even run on his name any more. So it is only a matter of time. Why is this government, over the stewardship of this Premier (Mr.

Film on), having a situation where layoffs are a record number of people in the schools here in Manitoba, a record number of teachers that are being laid off in the province ofManitoba? Again we have a government that is not dealing with our public education system.

You talk about preventing crime, but when it comes to keeping teachers in our school rooms to invest in the future of our young people, when it comes to having teachers in our schools to provide the structure and supervision and guidance for our kids to keep them out of trouble along with our families, we see nothing from members opposite in terms of dealing with that.

May24, 1995 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 37 Mr. Deputy Speaker, this government has taken all its blue books in the campaign and thrown them out in the election. Prior to the campaign we had three or four blue books. During the campaign the government was jettisoning the Clayton Manness policies as fast as people would criticize. I remember going into Lac du Bonnet and the member for Lac du Bonnet (Mr.

Praznik) was going around to all his communities and saying: Oh, do not worry, we will not change your recess policies; oh, do not worry, we will not have this policy in education or we will not have that policy in education that was in our blue books; Clayton Manness is gone now and we are going to get rid of all his policies in the blue books in the campaign. That was what they were saying in the election campaign.

Say one thing before the election, another thing during the election, and God knows what they are going to do after the election, because in the Speech from the Throne there was absolutely nothing in terms of modernizing our education system. There was nothing to deal with recess. There was nothing to deal with Canadian history. There was nothing to deal with the curriculum for elementary students. There was nothing to deal with the junior high students' curriculum. There was nothing to deal with the suspension policy that we criticized in Bill 3 last December and the government, and the Premier (Mr.

Filmon) flip-flopped in the election campaign. There is no indication whether Bill 4 will proceed. There is no policy on community colleges to deal with the federal government cutbacks on community colleges to have an education and training strategy. There is no policy to deal with post-secondary education and the cutbacks of the federal government. There is no policy to link community colleges, apprenticeship programs, Access programs with the future economy here in the province of Manitoba, no strategy at all. * (1510 ) That is why, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, the Premier is governing this province with the worst economic performance of any province in Canada in the last seven years. Your GDP growth is below the national average, in fact it averages out to .6 percent. Every year you are below the national average for the last seven years. You are below the national average and your GDP, your measure of all economic performance is dismal. It is a poor performance, and there are only 3,000 more jobs today than when you began office in 1988-3,000 jobs over six years. You finally got over the plus figure, I have to acknowledge.

We have always been straight up about the statistics. An Honourable Member: Oh, you have really been straight up about a lot of things. Mr. Doer: The Deputy Premier (Mr. Downey) over there, the king of guffaw in this Chamber, the sort of Richard Nixon incarnate here in this Chamber of Manitoba-here is a minister that should have been fired by the Premier. He is the only Minister of Tourism in Canada that sent out a brochure that had American advertising and had a centrefold for the United States.

The Deputy Premier of this province spends hundreds of thousands of dollars of taxpayers' money to give people in Manitoba coupons to go to Grand Forks and Fargo. What an absolute disaster. No wonder our economy is in such dismal shape. He should resign. The buck stops there. He should resign as Minister responsible for Tourism here in the province of Manitoba Instead of guff awing, he should resign. Also, dealing with the whole issue of the economy is the whole issue of lotteries. The Premier whined about the articles on lotteries during the election campaign.

Remember the promise that the Premier made in this Chamber and then in the election campaign? I know promises do not mean anything to the Premier. I know his word does not mean anything to him, but I remember at the Manitoba Association of Urban Municipalities the Premier said the information about how much money was taken from each community would be released prior to the election campaign. He said it in that debate. His minister said that in the Chamber.

When we produced a bill called The Lotteries Accountability Act to make it law so that communities like Dauphin and Swan River and Thompson and Steinbach and Roblin-Russell would know how much

38 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 24, 1995 money is coming out of their community, the government said, do not worry, we will release that infonnation. The Premier gave his word again, and, of course, the Premier's word is worth nothing, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Of course, he broke just another election promise.

Secrecy, deceit and hiding the true government agenda are the hallmark of this government, not honesty, integrity and straightforward dialogue with the people of Manitoba Unfortunately, the Conference Board again today reports that after 1994 when we are below the Canadian average in terms of economic performance-again we are below the Canadian average-that 1995 promises again another year below the Canadian average. The real true ads of the Conservative Party should have been, vote for us, we will perfonn below the Canadian average.

The real true ads, the honest ads produced for the people of Manitoba, should not be to use a tenn like Manitoba Works, a tenn that .was developed by the NDP in its alternative speech from the throne, absolutely plagiarized out of our document, Manitoba Works. In terms of their strategy, they should give hope and opportunity to people, not slick ads. People do not get jobs out of slick ads. They get jobs out of real economic development, real economic opportunity, and real hope for the people. I also want to talk for a moment about the fallacy of a balanced budget.

Two members already have talked about balanced budget. Now, whom do we listen to? Do we listen to this Premier who promised $10 million to the Jets and the budget would be balanced, or do we listen to the Dominion Bond Rating agency that said, oh, the budget is not balanced? You know when the last time the budget was balanced? It was 19 88-89, because, Mr. Deputy Speaker-the last budget that was balanced on the Public Accounts. Anybody can produce a balanced budget. The issue is Public Accounts. What is your final bottom line at the end of the year?

The Chamber of Commerce can produce a balanced budget for its clubhouse and then show a deficit at the end of the year. It is still a deficit. You know, the Orwellian language that is being used by the Premier opposite to say, we are the only ones that produced a balanced budget in 20 years, is quite slick and clever, but anyone in this Chamber can write a balanced budget. The question is: Do you come in balanced at the end of the year? What is your bottom line balanced books, Mr. Deputy Speaker? So let us not listen to the Premier. His word means nothing to us any more.

With the greatest of respect, you lost your credibility during the election campaign as far as we are concerned. Your word means nothing to us any more. I just want you to know that. That is unfortunate, because I would rather disagree on ideas and issues rather than not being able to know from one day to the next when he is telling us the truth and when he is not telling the truth. The Dominion Bond Rating agency clearly states, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that the last year there was a Public Accounts balanced budget was 19 88-89. The NDP budget was the last balanced budget in the province.

You know what they-[intetjection] I believe the Premier, if you check Hansard, if it is on the record, used a word that is unacceptable to this Chamber. I know he is a little sensitive about the fact that the Dominion Bond Rating agency criti cized-every promise he made fell like a house of cards when their document came out. You know what? You know when the record high deficit- Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. I am having a little bit of trouble hearing the honourable member, and it is coming from both sides, so if I could have a little bit of order, we will continue. Mr. Doer: Mr.

Deputy Speaker, the year the deficit was the highest was $742 million two years ago. Two years ago, who was the Premier? The fiscal conservatives, the fiscal managers ofManitoba. If we remember the former accountant who was in the caucus, who quit the caucus a couple of years ago, stated that the real deficit was $862 million. [intetjection] I know the Premier does not like to hear the truth, but if he can just be a little quiet, a little patient-! know the Premier is a little thin skinned when his words come back to haunt him, but if he could just

May24, 1995 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 39 be a little patient, try a little integrity, it will go a long way on this side of the Chamber. Mr. Deputy Speaker, the Dominion Bond Rating agency says that there is a deficit in 1995-96. The Dominion Bond Rating agency says what we have criticized the government for in the past. You cannot-and I would ask members opposite when you are participating in this little gimmick, really pay attention.

You cannot take a Crown corporation such as the McKenzie Seeds corporation, sell it a year ago, and then show that in your next year's operating account to show a balanced budget. It is a one-time only capital asset. You cannot do it. It is called manipulative financing. The bond rating agencies which are not exactly rife with New Democrats do not agree with you. They call it manipulating finances. You know what they do? Their bottom line is that you are running a deficit of $90 million. Their bottom line is that you are really running a deficit. I know the Premier does not want to face the facts, but, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, no wonder your credit rating was worse than the Pawley government's credit rating. It is quite interesting that your credit rating has declined since you became government here in Manitoba. They also comment about the secrecy and dishonesty of using the Lotteries corporation as a one-time-only payment to look like you are balancing the budget here in this year. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I know the Premier threw the dice-[interjection] I know they are very sensitive over there. They can keep heckling all they want.

I know that they do not like being pointed out to be running a deficit when the whole election campaign was about balancing the so-called books, but we would point out- An Honourable Member: Manitobans have heard you and disagreed. Mr. Doer: The Premier will get his chance. I know he does like- Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. I am really having a very hard time hearing the honourable member. If the honourable member would be given the opportunity, I am sure he will be finishing up in the very near future and I would like to hear the end of it. Mr.

Doer: I would like to thank the Deputy Speaker for that nonpartisan ruling. Now, I raised these gimmicks and the Dominion Bond Rating agency for a reason. Your caucus is now committed to bringing in the so-called balanced budget legislation. Let me give you a couple of examples of why this has not been thought out beyond the pre election gimmick and the gimmick in the campaign of why this is not very well thought out. * (1 520) Duff Roblin, a Conservative, built what is commonly known as Duffs ditch in the province of Manitoba. Did that come in in a balanced budget year?

Did that come in in a year a one-time-only capital inves1ment or did it take more than one year to pay for that investment? If you check the record, Duffs ditch or the floodway cost was paid for over three budget years. Now I ask the question, was that not a worthy investment to have a capital investment that would have exceeded your proposed balanced budget legislation that has saved us money year after year after year in preventing floods? Look at the example of previous Conservative Premiers, and I mention Duff Roblin in that example.

Look at the whole area of having a long-term strategy to deal with children's poverty. We know that an ounce of prevention that may be spent in one budget year may save us dollar after dollar after dollar in future generations. Look at the Economic Council of Canada that talked about investing in children. Keeping them in school, keeping them in nourishment, keeping them in safe and secure settings will save the taxpayers money year in and year out as well as providing opportunity and dignity for our children. Look at the long term. Put a human face on the balanced budget proposal that you have.

Do not have manipulation. Disallow the sale of Crown assets to go against the operating debt because you really will not have, as the Dominion Bond Rating agency has said, real balanced budget legislation even under the Conservative ideology and extremism of balanced

40 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May24, 1995 budget legislation before this House unless you have flexibility to deal with long-term capital and no flexibility to manipulate the sale of public assets of Crown corporations which are already being discounted by outside independent observers and outside independent financial institutions. Let us look at the taxpayer protection legislation. Now this is a government that said they did not raise taxes and then raised everybody's property taxes by tens of millions of dollars. Property tax credit reductions are an increase in taxes.

If my taxes in my home go up $75 a year because of a Filmon team measure, that is in essence a tax increase. That is outside of the ambit of the so-called referendum legislation, kind of a warning to all of us, I guess, about where you are going to proceed to deal with the federal government cutbacks that would not be subject to your so-called referendum legislation. Let us look at the sales tax. This government in the last 1990 election promised not to expand sales tax on children's clothing and other essential goods. Yes, now it is expanded.

Your referendum legislation would allow you to put the 7 percent PST on food, for example, again without a referendum. So do not think that your so-called legislation before this Chamber, beyond the gimmickry that is contained therein, is good effective long-term fiscal management and good long term capital investment here in the province of Manitoba. Mr. Deputy Speaker, we are pleased that this legislation will be dealt with in the fall sitting of the Legislature. We know that other legislation will be dealt with in this sitting of the Legislature.

We will ask the government to provide us enough time on family maintenance legislation so that we can put in the amendments that we believe are necessary to improve the bill that is before this Chamber and presented to this Chamber last December. We believe the family maintenance bill is timely but we want enough time to improve that legislation and to hear from the public, and we will ask the government to proceed on a timely basis so that improvements can be made to a bill that we believe needs radical improvements. We still ask the government to provide us information on education bills.

Bills 3 and 4 died on the Order Paper. I know the Premier flip-flopped during the election campaign. The small Speech from the Throne did not advise us of where they are going on that very vital matter. We will continue to provide positive alternatives in this Chamber. We have proposed a healthy child program. We have proposed nurse practitioners. We have proposed a personal care home code of conduct. We have proposed neighbourhood health organizations. We have proposed the health reform accountability act. In education, we have proposed funding tied to the economy.

We have proposed a safe schools policy as an alternative. We have proposed the revitalized Curriculum Branch to deal with not only the existing basics but the basics of the future. We have proposed mandatory phys ed. We have proposed a core subject being Canadian history. We have a jobs and economy strategy that calls for an all-party committee so that we can deal with our jobs and our future growth in an all-party way. We have proposed an economic summit as an alternative. We have proposed a Manitoba works program that we were flattered that the government xeroxed and advertised on in the election campaign.

We have proposed Investment Manitoba We have proposed a seasonal job strategy. We have proposed a building bridges program. We have a small business career start program that we have proposed. We have proposed community safety infrastructure programs. We have proposed community safety programs. We have proposed community police officers. We have proposed youth places grants to deal with crime prevention. We have dealt and proposed a long-term transition program for agriculture, to deal with the Crow rate and the Port of Churchill.

Where is that in the original December document from this government dealing with the agricultural economy? Where is the Port of Churchill as part of their transition strategy? We have an alternative, Mr.

May 24, 1995 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 41 Deputy Speaker, and we will continue to propose that, not only to the government but to the full public of Manitoba. We have proposed a stay option to the year 2000 for young farmers. We have proposed increased agricultural research, which of course has been decimated by the federal government. We have proposed fair funding for northern highways. We have proposed mining safety here in the province of Manitoba. We have proposed northern economic development programs for fairness of all programs, and we have proposed access programs for all Manitobans-positive ideas.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, we expect to disagree with the government on policy and on their extreme ideology. We expect that will happen. We expect from time to time to disagree on issues. We expect from time to time to disagree on policy decisions. We expect from time to time to agree on legislation and to disagree on legislation. We expect from time to time and will continue to propose positive alternatives, but what we cannot understand on this side of the House is a government that says one thing before an election and acts another way after the election.

That is something we will never ever tolerate, and that is something that we will never understand. We expect honesty and integrity from every member opposite. We expect members opposite to be straightforward. Starting from the Premier, we feel we have been misled in terms of the policies of this government before the election, during the election and after the election. Therefore, Mr. Deputy Speaker, the Premier said in all consciousness he could not support $1 11 million of public money to a new facility for the Jets.

We say, why did you change your conscience after the election? * (15 30) We therefore in our consciousness cannot support this government. The NDP conscience will not allow us to support this government and therefore, I move, seconded by the member for Wolseley (Ms. Friesen), THAT this motion be amended by adding the following words: This House regrets: (

a) that in the face of record teacher layoffs and recent education policy flip-flops this government has failed to indicate any vision for a public education system and our children's future; and (

b) that this government, after cutting audiology services and the Children's Dental Health Program, failed to articulate a strategy for ensuring the future health of our children; and (

c) that this government has no plan to address child poverty in Manitoba, the highest rate in Canada, and instead blames the federal government for this problem; and (

d) that through the manipulation of the sale of Crown corporation assets this government was able to project a surplus for '95-96, but, according to Dominion Bond Rating Service, Manitoba will actually have a deficit of $96 million; and (

e) that this government has failed to develop a transition strategy to include the Port of Churchill to address the elimination of the Crow benefit; and (

f) that this government has shown a blatant disregard for transportation and health care needs of northern Manitobans; and (

g) that this government has no democratic mandate to commit taxpayers' dollars to the Winnipeg Jets and the construction of an arena beyond the $10 million committed in the election campaign; and (

h) that over its seven-year term with this government Manitoba's economic performance is the worst in the country, according to Stats Canada; and

42 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 24, 1995 (

i) that this government has no plan to address the $247 million in cuts in the federal government health and education funding; TIIEREFORE this government has lost the trust and confidence of this House and the people ofManitoba. Thank you very much. Motion presented. Mr. Frank Pitura (Morris): It is a great honour and privilege for me to stand here today and respond to the Speech from the Throne. I say to all of you quite frankly, I am not myself today. Today I am the thousands of men and women who believed in me and put their faith in me to be their voice in government.

I am humbled by their confidence and strengthened by their faith in me to bring their concerns to this Legislature. My predecessor for Morris, Mr. Clayton Manness, is a tough act to follow, to say the least. Having served the people ofMorris constituency faithfully since 1981, Clayton had served the people of his constituency and this province tirelessly and faithfully. I congratulate Madam Speaker on her much-deserved appointment. She brings a proven record of impartial and prudent judgment and impeccable execution ofher duties as a Deputy Speaker.

As a Speaker I am sure that she will continue to have every confidence and respect from her peers that she has come to deserve. The honourable member for St. Norbert (Mr. Laurendeau), our Deputy Speaker, I congratulate you on your appointment as Deputy Speaker. I know that you will continue in the fine and honourable tradition of prudence and fairness as your predecessor. To all of the honourable members gathered here today I would like to express my sincerest thank-you for welcoming me and the other new members to this Legislature with such warmth and genuine spirit of united purpose.

When you welcomed me you have welcomed the thousands of families and individuals of Morris whom I represent here today. We all thank you for your kind considerations. To the Pages, I look forward to serving the people of this province with your help, and I hope that this will prove an educational and productive experience as you participate in the making of Manitoba's history, and what place of honour these times will place in the history of Manitoba. Today we are standing on the edge of the greatest age Manitoba has ever known.

We are entering into a new era, a new century and a new millennium charged with the obligation of governing with a resounding mandate from the people of this great province, to continue along this road of evolving and growing prosperity. There is something in the air. It is a freshness like a spring prairie sprinkled with a glistening morning dew. It is an energy of light and movement like crisp pure winter's evening with the aurora borealis dancing across the sky. There is something sweet in the air in Manitoba like the waft of fragrant blossoms which seep across the balmy breezes of summer.

It is so powerful you can almost taste it. It is optimism. It is hope. It is a faith in a bright and prosperous future. This is not something new. It has been lingering throughout Manitoba since 1988. It has just become more and more powerful with each passing day. It is an evolving determination by Manitobans and has been reflected in their chosen government and our Leader for the past three elections to make this province the best place anywhere to live, to work, to invest and to raise a family.

I am proud to stand before all of you here today as a member of this government, which has guided Manitoba through the worst recession this country has seen since the Dirty Thirties without burdening the taxpayer by freezing taxes for more than seven consecutive years and, I might add, with no end to the tax freeze in sight. That alone would be enough to put a smile on the face of any hard-working Manitoban, but even the want-to-be hard worker in our society is smiling because month after month after month to this day Manitoba is consistently one of the best places in Canada to find work.

We have among the lowest unemployment rates in the country, coupled with a balanced budget and legislation to keep our budgets balanced today and for the governments of the future. Our businesses are confident in their ability to grow.

May 24, 1995 LEGISLATIVE AS SEMBLY OF MANITOBA 43 A word of warning though to the honourable members sitting in opposition and, of course, to the few other members of this House as well, this optimism and confidence in Manitoba's ability to work, prosper and grow is highly contagious and may creep up on you when you least expect it. For example, you may be sitting here brooding in this very Chamber or you may be lying awake in the middle of the night and wham, it hits you. You will jump out of bed, shake your significant other awake, and shout, the honourable member for Morris is right.

Our future is very bright, and we can do anything world class from right here in Manitoba. It is going to happen, mark my words. For all I know, it may even happen tonight. You will be getting yourself ready for bed and all the while you will be thinking about all the progressive and dynamic initiatives this government has made over the years. You will be thinking about the attractive business environment that has been fostered in Manitoba while you brush your teeth or drop them in a glass, whatever the case may be.

Then, as you change your clothes to get ready for bed, a torrent of thoughts comes flooding to you of this government's record of fiscal responsibility, including balanced budgets and our record of holding the line on taxes like no other jurisdiction in North America. Then you will dismiss this dawning revelation maybe as quickly as it came, but then as you tuck yourself in and lay your weary head on the pillow visions of excellence in leadership will drift across your mind.

Fleeting flashes of sustainable job creation and income growth will flicker across the inside of your eyelids, and a renewed respect of the prioritized spending in health, education and family services will leap into your heart. Before you know it you will be propped up in bed bright-eyed and bushy-tailed with the optimism and faith in ourselves as Manitobans that I have been speaking about today. * (1 540) This throne speech is a vision for the future of Manitoba, and Mr. Deputy Speaker, the future is not what it was.

It is a rapidly changing global village at our doorstep, and in order to remain competitive we must have a highly-skilled and adaptive society to remain on the cutting edge while keeping abreast of the latest developments and advancements in our world. But not only that, we must be able to see potential in everything around us. We must dare to dream. In dreaming we begin to plan. In planning we begin to produce. In producing we begin to prosper. In my constituency of Morris there is an abundance of possibilities and potential for the people of today to ensure that there is a future for our children of tomorrow.

Of course, none of this is, or ever could be, possible without energy, drive and dedication of the people of Morris, to their community, to their home and to their faith in a promising future for their children. My neighbours in Morris have a very great tradition of attachment and dedication to our parcel of creation, and families live and remain in Morris because of the wonderful neighbours that they have. We are a people who are adaptable to the changes of times and technology and have proven time and time again the flexibility and agility in learning new and innovative ways of getting things done.

Adapting to some of the recent initiatives of the federal Liberal government is going to test the flexibility of Morris constituents and indeed people from across Manitoba The diversification in the agricultural sector has been accelerated by the total elimination of the Western Grain Transportation subsidy by the federal Liberal government. They have taken that away from us and in tum are trying to give us a new gun control legislation, whether we want it or not, and make us pay for it. But despite the actions of the federal government, Morris constituents and all Manitobans will persevere.

Whether it is a new skill on the job, a new technology or a new system in the world, adaptability has been the hallmark for the success of Morris to withstand the changing times. One of the current constraints of Morris has been summed up in a recent edition of the Valley Leader, relating the reaction by Carman mayor, Murray Ryn, welcoming the news of plans for a new multipurpose medical clinic in Carman. The existing building would be freed up for retail space. Mayor Ryn said that having additional space in Carman was appealing

44 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 24, 1995 because business real estate is in such high demand that there was simply no extra office space available in Carman at the present time. We are growing, and in some regards we are bursting at the seams, and there is every reason in the world to be optimistic about the future, especially in light of the present and the past. The future is ours. All we have to do is reach out and take it. If we build it they will come. The future is ours because our common sense approach to government is aimed at achieving some very clear and significant objectives.

Our economic strategy is creating jobs, 15 ,000 more full-time jobs in the past two years alone. We have among the lowest unemployment rates in the nation. That is from British Columbia to Newfoundland and all points in between. We are among the best in Canada for ensuring that for those who want to work there is the opportunity for them to work. We have exemplified national leadership and responsible fiscal management, which are the underpinnings of our job and economic strategy, freezing, as in the case of personal income taxes, and reducing small business corporate taxes.

We have achieved long-term, stable fiscal management with spending smarter, balancing the budget and reducing the deficit. Our exports have helped Manitoba keep a sustained economic growth overall. Thousands of families rely on the manufacturing and export of goods, and this means more jobs right here at home. The planning and creation of an attractive business environment through responsible fiscal management was rewarded when last year we hit a record level of 4. 7 billion in world exports, an almost 30 percent increase over the year before.

But the net has been further cast with a clear plan by this government to continue to attract trading partners from around the globe. Our business growth is booming in the health care industry and products. The information and telecommunications industry is expanding with new services relocating or being established right here in Manitoba. Tourism is reaching tremendous potential and growth. International travellers clearing customs in Manitoba increased 28 percent last year, the best growth in Canada and the best for the last two years in a row.

Agriculture has and will continue to be one of the most vital aspects of our economy, accounting for one out of every eight jobs in Manitoba. This government has helped expand markets and encourage innovation, diversification and value-added processing activities in this province. In the last four years, exports in agricultural commodities have increased by one-third and value added food products have grown by more than 50 percent. We have done much, but there is still much left we can do.

To stimulate diversification and innovation in the agricultural sector and create more jobs for Manitobans, this government has a plan to establish a $1 0-million agricultural diversification fund through the Manitoba Agricultural Credit Corporation. This will provide loan guarantees of up to 25 percent to encourage farmers to produce higher valued agricultural products.

Coupled with our efforts to establish a new whole-farm program and to continue to work with the agrifood sector to market our products around the world, our agricultural industry will be assured a continued significant role in the economy of Manitoba and the life of our province. The mining sector has seen unprecedented growth lately due in part to the lowered mining taxes and exploration incentives which have resulted in heightened exploration in the province.

With an eye to double the value of mineral production by the year 2000, this government is continuing to attract an increasing share of mining exploration in Canada. The transportation sector employs over 25,000 Manitobans, the highest number of people per capita in this industry in Canada, and we are centring ourselves as the hub of distribution of goods throughout North America. Through many initiatives such as the Northern Hemisphere Distribution Alliance, the

May24, 19 95 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 45 horizon is rising on an international multimodal cargo centre for the entire northern hemisphere established right here in Manitoba. It is exciting, in just one word. This throne speech speaks of a vision for the future that is based on established, experienced strategies of today and yesterday.

We are building on a momentum of innovation from yesterday and partnership with skills and leaders of today, and by the way, if the next time you are brushing or dropping your teeth and your thoughts helplessly drift to all the marvellous things that this government and Manitoba are and have been doing, or better yet, you wake up your neighbours in the middle of the night yelling at the top of the lungs telling the world that this government was right, do not say I never warned you. Thank you. Mr.

Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): I too would like to commence by welcoming all new members to the House, and remind everyone here that we are all honourable members. I look forward to interesting debates and interesting discourse, but I hope we can all genuinely remain friends outside this Chamber and outside some of the words that cross this floor.

Being an MLA requires major sacrifice on the parts of all of use, but I can assure all the new members that there are major rewards as well for being an elected member; and, though I have only been elected for five years, I feel that those rewards have been there, and I appreciate them and I urge a,ll members to continue to work on behalf of their constituents. I would also like to congratulate Madam Speaker on her elevation to the Speaker's Chair. I know her to be of integrity and warmth, and I hope we can continue to have a good working relationship in this Chamber.

I would also like to recognize the elevation of the Deputy Speaker. I note that he is in the Chair at this point, and I will miss his invigorating response to some of my comments in this Chamber. He is one of the members who helps promote some ·o f my better rhetoric in this Chamber, but I certainly welcome his appointment as well and hope he as well will continue his fair relationship in this Chamber with all members. * (1 550) It would be remiss of me, Mr. Deputy Speaker, to not recognize the efforts of the former Speaker, the member for Gladstone (Mr. Rocan).

I believe that member epitomizes some of the best characteristics of all members of this Chamber, and I have come to view him, and I think members on this side of the House have come to view him, as a friend in this Chamber. We look forward to a continuing relationship, and we hope, and I am certain, that he will continue to conduct himself above approach, as he had throughout his tenure in this Chamber as Speaker. I would also like to thank all the constituents of Kildonan for again returning me to this Chamber on their behalf. I appreciate their support.

I appreciate their concern, and I will continue to try to represent them to the best of my ability, and I thank them for their confidence in me and in the New Democratic Party in the recent election results. I would also like to thank my family for all of their support and their dedication, not just my immediate family, but all of my extended family likewi se. Without their support it would be very difficult to carry out my activities in this Chamber and represent my constituents adequately. I would like to start off on a positive note, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, and that is to congratulate the government and all the members for a re-election and its renewed mandate in this Chamber. I accept the verdict of the people and I recognize that this government has won a majority, and we will do our best to work with this government to try and improve conditions in Manitoba. I must emphasize that the government ought not to misinterpret the mandate that was given to them by the people of Manitoba, and I will have more to say on that a little later in my comments with regard to the misinterpretation of the mandate by members opposite.

One of the real pleasures of being an elected member is, you have a chance to attend a lot of events and a lot of functions, and I find myself in synagogues and in churches and in temples and all kinds of forums as an elected representative and otherwise.

46 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 24, 1995 I recently had occasion to hear a very remarkable sermon or homily that was well delivered, and I wish to repea

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	36-1-2
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	36th 1st hansardpdf 2.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	4d538a3a9a995972454bbeccfd6e41880a2e1af3

Source file is stored in the law ingest library (pdf).