May 10, 2007 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY

PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLV No. 11

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!

Admit Strangers.

This afternoon we are very pleased to welcome twenty-six Grades 7, 8 and 9

students from St. Anne's Academy in Dunville in the District of Placentia

& St. Mary's. They are joined by twenty-five exchange students from

Hillcrest School in Hamilton, Ontario. These students are accompanied by Mr.

Gordon Pike, Principal of St. Anne's, and Ms Beth Poad of Hillcrest School,

and teachers Mr. Ken Mandville and Mr. Mark Nash.

Welcome to the House of Assembly.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: To my left, we have thirty-seven Grade 8 students from John

Burke High School in Grand Bank, in the District of Grand Bank. They are

accompanied by their teachers, Mr. Darrell LaFosse and Mrs. Susan Bursey and

their bus driver, Mr. Murdock Hiscock.

Welcome to the House of Assembly.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: This afternoon we have members' statements as follows: the

hon. the Member for the District of Grand Bank; the hon. the Member for the

District of Burin-Placentia West, with leave, I understand leave has been

arranged, I have confirmation of that; the hon. the Member for the District of

Burgeo & LaPoile; the hon. the Member for the District of Placentia &

St. Mary's; the hon. the Member for the District of Carbonear-Harbour Grace;

and the hon. the Member for the District of Mount Pearl.

The Chair recognizes the Member for the District of Grand Bank.

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to extend congratulations to Captain

Christine Matthews of Grand Bank.

Captain Matthews was among a group of nurses recently returned from Kandahar,

Afghanistan, who were honoured yesterday at the Nursing Sisters' Memorial on

Parliament Hill in Ottawa by the Canadian Nurses Association in recognition of

their service.

Describing herself as a late bloomer, Matthews joined the Canadian Forces at

the age of twenty-six in 1996. After earning her nursing degree at Memorial

University of Newfoundland, she was posted in Halifax. Matthews volunteered to

go to Kabul in 2003 and it was there she had her first encounter with war

injuries.

Matthews did a six month stint in Kandahar beginning in February of 2006, and

did not hesitate to go back. After Kandahar, she returned to Canada and

completed a critical care specialty certification in Halifax and spent time in

Petawawa as a platoon commander running training exercises. The former

marathoner and tri-athlete works in the emergency room at the civic campus of

the Ottawa Hospital until she begins her army training in August.

Matthews was also deployed on a disaster assistance relief team mission in

Pakistan in 2005, assisting earthquake victims. In 2000, Matthews led a group of

military colleagues in full combat gear on a 160 kilometre, four-day march in

Holland, following the liberation route of Canadian soldiers in the Second World

War.

Captain Matthews is the daughter of Patricia and Arch Matthews of Grand Bank.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join me in congratulating

Captain Christine Matthews and extending her thanks for serving the military and

sacrificing her life to represent her country.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Burin-Placentia

West.

MR. JACKMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to recognize a school and a group of students in my District of

Burin-Placentia West. Ministers do not usually make member's statements, and I

thank the Opposition and the Leader of the NDP for granting me leave to

recognize this accomplishment.

Mr. Speaker, this past week the Pearce Junior High School Choir, under the

direction of Ms Wanda Lee Murphy, placed second at the Atlantic Band Festival

held in Halifax, Nova Scotia. This choir has been practicing for many months now

and has performed at various fundraising functions in the local area and this is

a tremendous showing and accomplishment.

Mr. Speaker, through their performance this wonderful group of young men and

women, along with their teacher, brought much pleasure and enjoyment to those

who have attended their events and they were rewarded this past weekend. This

accomplishment has raised the area of performance to new heights in my district.

Mr. Speaker, the arts are alive and well in my district and this highlights

the efforts of those who worked for such an accomplishment.

I would like to recognize the parents who have worked hard to support their

sons and daughters and to the larger community. I am sure the school would like

to recognize everyone who supported them in various ways.

Mr. Speaker, in closing, I would ask all members of this hon. House to join

me in congratulating the Pearce Junior High School Choir on their second place

win in the Atlantic Band Festival.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Burgeo & LaPoile.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise in this House today to extend congratulations to Julie Pink of Burgeo

who was the winner of the Canada Day Poster Challenge for 2007, in the five to

eight-year-old category. Julie attends Burgeo Academy and is six years old.

Julie, the daughter of Dawn and Stacey Pink of Burgeo, competed among 1,500

entries provincially, and 281 entries in her age category making hers a

significant achievement. The theme of the 2007 Canada Day Poster Challenge was:

A Portrait of Canada: Celebrating 140 Years. The contest was open to youth

across Canada aged eighteen and under.

Mr. Speaker, the design of one of the provincial or territorial finalists

will be chosen as the official Canada Day 2007 Poster and will be distributed

throughout the country. The name of the national winner will be announced in

May.

All thirteen provincial and territorial finalists and their escorts will be

guests of the Minister of Canadian Heritage and Status of Women in Ottawa on

July 1, where they will join thousands of other Canadians gathered on Parliament

Hill to celebrate Canada's 140 birthday.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join with me in extending

congratulations to Julie Pink, a Burgeo Academy student, the winner of the

Canada Post Challenge for 2007 in the five to eight-year-old age category.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, during the past winter, from mid January to mid April, the

senior citizens of Branch gathered every Tuesday evening at the town hall for

what they called: A Singing Kitchen. It was an evening of good food and

entertainment organized by the volunteers of Branch, led by Mayor Priscilla

Corcoran-Mooney, with the assistance of some funding from the New Horizons

Program.

Thirty-five people, who were organized into groups, volunteered to cook and

serve the meals. They were assisted by a group of seven teenage girls who showed

up every Tuesday evening for fifteen weeks. A home-cooked meal would be followed

by an evening in which the seniors, along with other members of the community,

would participate in song, music, dance, storytelling and recitation in true

Branch tradition. The number of senior citizens attending ranged anywhere from

120 to 160 for the evening.

This was a tremendously successful initiative and speaks volumes for the

spirit of Branch and, indeed, of so many other rural communities, and it is an

initiative that deserves to be highlighted and showcased.

The community of Branch is renowned for its rich cultural traditions. It has

retained its cultural and linguistic ties to the old country in such a way that

when Irish tourists visited Branch during last year's Festival of the Sea,

they thought they were home.

This year, Branch will be having its first Come Home Year celebrations. Due

to the tremendous community involvement and support, indications are that it

will more than exceed its objective of being a "keen" time.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all hon. members to join me in congratulating the

community of Branch for being a true example of doing what it takes to keep

community spirit alive in our rural communities.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to congratulate three students from Carbonear Collegiate who

participated in the 2007 Brain Storm Competition recently held in St. John's.

The 2007 Brain Storm Competition was held at Memorial University's Faculty

of Medicine in St. John's. The Brain Storm Competition is structured much like

a spelling bee, except that, instead of studying a dictionary, students used a

newly published booklet, Brain Facts: A primer on the brain and nervous

system . The intent is to promote the study of neuroscience by potential

university students interested in life sciences.

Mr. Speaker, Louanne Crocker, a Carbonear Collegiate Grade 11 student, won

first place in the competition. Louanne, the daughter of George and Beverley

Crocker of Harbour Grace, will go on to compete in the International Brain Bee

Competition in Baltimore, Maryland, in the United States.

Melissa Peddle of Harbour Grace won fourth place, and Adam Comerford of

Carbonear won fifth place. About thirty students from across Newfoundland and

Labrador attended the first provincial competition. Mr. Keith Matthews, head of

the Science department at Carbonear Collegiate, says that to have students place

in the top five in this provincial competition speaks well of the achievement

attainable by the students of Carbonear Collegiate.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join with me in

congratulating Louanne Crocker, Melissa Peddle and Adam Comerford from Carbonear

Collegiate, winners of the 2007 Brain Storm Competition.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Mount Pearl.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DENINE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I recently had the pleasure of attending the City of Mount Pearl's

2006, eighteenth annual, Focus on Youth Awards Banquet.

This event is co-ordinated in partnership with the Mount Pearl Parks and

Community Services Department and the Mount Pearl Sport Alliance, and they do a

tremendous job. It is sponsored by various community-minded companies and

corporations to honour the "youth" and "adults who work with

youth" who make an outstanding contribution to the community in the areas

of sports, self-improvement and volunteerism. I would like to thank the sponsors

of this event, because without their help this could not be possible.

The winners this year are: Male Youth of the Year, Andrew Harvey; Female

Youth of the Year, Julia Hiscock; RNC Youth in Service Award, Rebecca Mercer;

Youth Volunteer of the Year Award, Megan Drodge; Female Youth Althete of the

Year, Laura Murray; Male Youth Athlete of the Year, David Forbes; Youth Sports

Team of the Year, O'Donel High Hockey Team; Adult Volunteer Working with Youth

in Sport, Paul Boland; Youth Group of the Year, the Mount Pearl Senior High

Animal Rights Club; Adult Volunteer Working with Youth, Rose Clarke; Visual Arts

Award, Jessany Hodge; Performing Arts Award (Individual), Philip Holloway;

Performing Arts Recognition Awards (Groups): the Mount Pearl Show Choir, the

Mount Pearl Senior High Drama Club, the O'Donel Jazz Band, the O'Donel AIDA

Production.

I am truly overwhelmed to hear of all the accomplishments of these young

people and adults nominated. Their dedication and contribution to our city is

invaluable, and I commend them all for their efforts.

In closing, Mr. Speaker, I would like all members of this House to join with

me in congratulating all the winners and nominees for this 2006 Focus on Youth

Awards, and encourage them to continue their involvement in the City of Mount

Pearl.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to inform my colleagues of the

official launch of the Regional Co-ordinating Committee of the Violence

Prevention Initiative for the Gander and New-Wes-Valley area.

Although the committee is officially open for business just this week, it has

been extremely active for several months organizing violence prevention

activities throughout the Gander area. They have made over forty presentations

to youth during Violence Prevention Month, and invited youth to create violence

prevention materials for their launch.

In Budget 2007, government invested an additional $398,000 in the Violence

Prevention Initiative. This investment builds on the six year, $1.25 million

annual investment, which, among many other activities, has seen the number of

Regional Co-ordinating Committees increase from six to ten.

Mr. Speaker, communities and government must work together to engage youth in

our fight against violence, and to spread the message that violence is

unacceptable.

Over the past year we have implemented the Safe and Caring Schools Policy.

This policy is dedicated to developing programs aimed at early intervention and

education on violence prevention.

Government is also acting on its commitment to create a violence prevention

marketing campaign that will raise awareness about violence prevention.

The first campaign will focus on the prevention of youth violence and will be

launched May 18 at the Stephenville High School.

People across our Province have long been working to combat violence. As you

can see, Mr. Speaker, this government is determined to work with communities to

reduce violence. I would encourage everyone here today to work with community

groups in your region to help reduce violence in Newfoundland and Labrador.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to thank the hon. minister for an advance copy of her statement

today.

I think incidences of bullying in our schools and in our communities amongst

our youth is evident all over our Province, and there are many cases that could

be cited. Some very serious issues of violence of youth evidently occur in our

society as well. Mr. Speaker, I think we need look no further than what happened

in Virginia Tech not too long ago. It was a case in evidence in terms of the

kind of violence that can and has occurred in our schools, and it is also a

reminder that violence often stems from other issues in society.

We, as parliamentarians in governments must ensure that those stresses that

are often confronting our youth are eradicated. We must also, Mr. Speaker,

provide for the appropriate counseling and mental health services and so on that

are required in our society as a preventative measure, as we know this is the

key to counteracting violence anywhere in society, whether it be our young

people or other people.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time as lapsed.

MS JONES: May I have leave to conclude, Mr. Speaker?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been granted.

MS JONES: I think the efforts that we are seeing here by the Violence

Prevention Initiative in Gander and New-Wes-Valley will certainly not go without

results. In fact, Mr. Speaker, I congratulate them for the efforts they have

embarked upon thus far.

I also want to say to the government, Mr. Speaker, because this year they did

announce money in their Budget to expand the community youth initiative in this

Province and to open five to six new youth centres - I want to say to the

minister that I was actually a parliamentary secretary in the Department of

Health when we started the Community Youth Network program in this Province, and

it was geared and aimed at areas of the Province where there was a high crime

rate amongst young people.

I would like to encourage the minister, as she looks at where these new

centres will be placed in our Province today, that she does so on a non-partisan

basis and looks at where the real need is to counteract youth crime in rural

areas throughout our Province. That would be the basis for these new centres,

Mr. Speaker, providing more services and more programs to youth in Newfoundland

and Labrador.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the minister for the advanced copy of her statement. I am very glad

to hear that this new step has been taken as part of the Violence Prevention

Initiative and that the regional coordinating committee in Gander and New Wes

Valley region has been set up. It is very important to reach out to our youth

and to help them become aware of violence as an issue, not just among themselves

but in our society in general. We just cannot underestimate it and the degree to

which it is not understood.

I would also like to remind the minister, however, that while we do this work

with youth we still have to realize that violence is going on in families and -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's allotted time has expired.

MS MICHAEL: By leave?

MR. SPEAKER: By leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Leave is granted.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

That violence is going on in families and maybe some of these children who

are violent in the school situation are coming out of violent situations at

home. Not always, but that does happen. So, government must have safe supportive

places for women and their children, especially in rural Newfoundland and

Labrador. It is an ongoing concern and it is a piece that needs to become

essential and integral to the Violence Prevention Initiative.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statement by ministers?

The hon. the Minister of Business.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. O'BRIEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to discuss the announcement of $32 million to

attract new business to Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. O'BRIEN: The new funding announced in Budget 2007 is another

significant investment as part of government's commitment to provide

long-term, sustainable business development in all regions of Newfoundland and

Labrador.

The new funding programs are aimed at providing the financial means to assist

organizations interested in the Province as a place to invest and establish

operations in Newfoundland and Labrador.

A business attraction fund of $25 million will provide for large-scale,

strategic investments in business ventures and infrastructure for the purpose of

attracting business to Newfoundland and Labrador. Through this fund, government

will be able to provide loans and equity investments to companies interested in

conducting operations in this Province.

In addition to the business attraction fund, government has also committed $7

million for a grants fund. This non-payable fund is designed to assist with

start-up and initial operational costs for large-scale companies setting up

business in the Province.

The focus of the grants fund will be on bridging the relocation and start-up

costs of new operations in Newfoundland and Labrador, and establishing

sustainable, strong industries in this Province.

Mr. Speaker, as the minister of a department that has a mandate of

facilitating the attraction of major business across the Province and across

sectors, the new funding program represents a critical milestone to attract

investment and position the Province as the preferred choice for business

operations.

Budget 2007 is a testament to the benefits of fiscal responsibility. Some of

the many benefits include a record surplus of $261 million, the largest personal

income tax reductions in the Province's history, and the reduction or

elimination of 170 fees resulting in an annualized investment of $3.4 million in

the provincial economy.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. O'BRIEN: Budget 2007 is a significant financial, economic and

social achievement of Newfoundland and Labrador, and supports government's

vision for a prosperous Province with a self-reliant people.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

MS FOOTE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the minister for an advanced copy of his statement today. I guess it

is an example of maybe if you announce it enough times that people will believe

it. Well, it is one thing to make an announcement about money that is in the

Budget, but it is another thing, Mr. Speaker, to find out how that money is

going to be spent.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS FOOTE: For instance, we know that last year the department was

allocated $3.3 million, but we do not know how it was spent. In fact, in the

Estimates Committee, when the minister was asked how many jobs were created, he

said not one, not one job. That is wrong, Mr. Speaker, because, guess what? We

know that more than fourteen new jobs are going to be created in that

department. Forget about the people in the Province, in that department there

are going to be fourteen new jobs.

We talk about a surplus, a record surplus, but I can tell you, Mr. Speaker,

that in rural Newfoundland and Labrador there are so many people who could take

advantage of that money if it was made available to them; people who are leaving

this Province in droves because of the failure of this government to do anything

to create employment for them.

We talk about a fund, $7 million for a grants fund. Well, I hope the

Department of Business is much more successful than the Department of

Innovation, Trade and Rural Development has been, because with their fund last

year of $9 million, guess how much they spent?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time has lapsed.

MS FOOTE: One million dollars of nine. I wonder what happened to the

other $8 million, Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time has lapsed.

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Leave is requested.

Leave is denied.

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I thank the minister for his

advanced copy. I would like to say that I, and my Party, also have a vision for

a prosperous Province with a self-reliant people.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS MICHAEL: So, I have a concern that while we will need to bring other

industries into our Province, I would hope that we are going to put as much

effort into working with people in rural Newfoundland, in particular, about

supporting them in ideas that they have for industries so that our people truly

become self-reliant. One caution to the minister and to the government, please

make sure that companies that do relocate have good track records in other

provinces and countries -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's allotted time has expired.

MS MICHAEL: By leave, Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: Leave is requested.

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Leave is granted.

MS MICHAEL: I am sure I do not have to remind us, that we have had a

couple of incidents over the past few years when government did not do its

homework and the companies that were being looked at were not the most

desirable. So that is a warning to government.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?

The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: Mr. Speaker, I rise in this House to inform you of my most

recent pleasure in joining with the artists and art lovers from across the

Province to celebrate excellence and achievement in the arts over the past year

at the Newfoundland and Labrador Arts Council Awards and Gala, held this past

Saturday, May 5, at the Corner Brook Arts and Culture Centre.

Mr. Speaker, Saturday evening's event was historic, marking the very first

time the arts council awards show was held outside of St. John's. This

provided a stellar opportunity to showcase the cultural richness of the West

Coast and its arts community. The celebrations were hosted by Wendy Woodland and

Mike Payne, joined by house band, The Louis MacDonald Quartet, Lloyd Bartlett,

Amy Andrews and Pamela Morgan.

As minister, I had the great honour that evening to join acclaimed author,

Lisa Moore, to present the Artist of the Year Award, which went to

musician/composer/producer, Bill Brennan.

Other deserving award winners included: musician/teacher/director, Korona

Brophy for the ArtsSmarts Arts in Education Award; Judge Lloyd Soper, who was

the recipient of the Patron of the Arts Award; writer/director Justin Simms

received the CBC Emerging Artist Award; writer/ poet Tom Dawe, and music

teacher/choirmaster Gary Graham were inducted into the Hall of Honour; and

musician/composer/publisher Eric West received the Rogers Cable Arts Achievement

Award. I extend very heartfelt congratulations to all of these deserving

winners.

Mr. Speaker, this year's arts awards were a great success and I am pleased

to note that the council has committed to bring the annual events outside of the

St. John's area every other year. This is a wonderful initiative and certainly

one that is supported by this government.

I extend congratulations to the organizers and the many people who work so

hard to make the Newfoundland and Labrador Arts Council Awards and Gala such a

tremendous celebration of this Province's art and artists.

This gathering on the West Coast provided me the wonderful opportunity to

unveil this government's plans for investment during year two of our $17.6

million three-year plan to promote and preserve the Province's cultural

sector.

On Saturday afternoon, at the Corner Brook Museum, I was joined by the arts

council's John Doyle and Patricia Hatch of the Heritage Foundation of

Newfoundland and Labrador to announce the increased support in Budget 2007 to

provincial arts programs, heritage organizations and cultural attractions that

protect and promote our arts and culture sectors. Our cultural plan, Mr.

Speaker, allows us to strategically invest for long-term results, such as

revitalized communities, increased tourism and the growth of jobs and

sustainable cultural industries.

Again, Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join with me in

congratulating the winner, the nominees and, indeed, all artists for their

invaluable contribution to the arts in this Province.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains.

MR. ANDERSEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the minister for an advance copy of his statement.

We, too, on this side would like to join the minister in congratulating all

the winners.

Minister, you mentioned the fact that these awards will be held outside of

St. John's every other year, and I certainly hope that Labrador will be

considered. When it comes to cultural richness we take a back step to no one.

Minister, you outlined more money for these sorts of events which is

certainly good news, but let me remind the minister of this; the importance that

your department plays in all these events. Minister, it was just a year ago that

your department made the most senior position in the Department of Tourism,

Culture and Recreation in Labrador redundant. I hope that you would reconsider

that position again.

Minister, we on this side of the House join you in congratulating all these

people and certainly look forward to seeing this event being hosted very soon in

Labrador.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the minister for the advance copy of his statement.

I, too, wish to congratulate all the artists who won and all those who were

nominated.

I had something else that I was going to say, but it just dawned on me, as I

looked at this - and I am not blaming anybody, I just want to make a comment for

us all to think about - there were six awards and only one of the awards went to

a woman. We know that we have quite a number of women artists out there. It

would be interesting to find out - and I encourage the Minister Responsible for

the Status of Women, along with the hon. Minister Responsible for Culture to

maybe find out - how many women were nominated. If it looks like the nominations

of women are really down, maybe the Women's Policy Office can add that to

their list of encouraging people to nominate women, because we have an awful lot

of women out there in arts doing tremendous work in all of the fields that are

reflected here. It is just a little sad -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's allotted time has expired.

MS MICHAEL: By leave?

MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been requested.

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Leave is granted.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Just for all of us to reflect on it, we all know that we have a lot of women

in the arts.

In areas like sports we have the Athlete Woman of the Year and the Athlete

Man of the Year. We recognize the two groups in sports. Maybe we need to start

looking at the two groups when it comes to arts as well, and to ensure that

women artists are getting as much support and recognition as the male artists.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?

Oral Questions.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions are for the Premier.

Last spring, at the Premier's infamous fisheries forum, all participants

agreed that any restructuring of the fishery would be contingent upon an early

retirement package for plant workers and a licence buyout for fish harvesters.

Since that time the federal minister, Mr. Hearn, has made it abundantly clear on

numerous occasions that his government would not be participating in either of

these programs.

I ask the Premier: Does this mean that the issue is dead? If so, how does

this impact your restructuring plan for the fishing industry?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, the meeting, the summit that the Leader of the

Opposition referred to, that took place last spring, was a watershed meeting,

really, of people involved in the fishing industry in Newfoundland and Labrador.

There was a significant degree of consensus that came out of that, that has

still been working to the advantage of everybody today. The only thing infamous

that I recall from it was the reluctance of the Leader of the Opposition to even

participate or engage in the process at all.

In terms of early retirement packages, Mr. Speaker, the Province has

consistently supported a package that would lead to helping those in the

industry who wanted to take an early retirement to take it. We have consistently

said that our share of the money would be available to make that happen. We

stand by that, and anything that we can do - and there have already, as a matter

of fact, been further discussions with the unions since the announcement on

renewal as to perhaps how the Province might be able to participate in that

manner in the future, but certainly we remain committed, Mr. Speaker, to the

concept of an early retirement package for the people involved in the fishing

industry.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As a result of that infamous forum, as I say, because that is all it was, the

minister and his federal counterpart released a restructuring plan a couple of

weeks ago. I have talked to fish harvesters, plant workers and plant owners, and

all three groups say there was absolutely nothing in that restructuring for

either one of those groups.

Mr. Speaker, in recent weeks the Premier has stated publicly that he is

prepared to go it alone on a number of projects in this Province, even without

federal participation. He said he did not need the federal government. He stated

that publicly after the Budget. He said he is prepared to go it alone on the

Lower Churchill, the Trans-Labrador Highway and other projects.

I ask the Premier: Will you go it alone on an early retirement package and a

licence buyout for fish harvesters?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: It is a funny thing, you know, Mr. Speaker, this infamous

meeting that the Leader of the Opposition keeps referring to, and the fact that

nothing came out of the renewal exercise, a funny thing.

I have been talking to people in the industry. The day that we announced the

federal-provincial initiatives that we were prepared to embark on, either

jointly or in our own jurisdictions, I was talking to fishermen from Petty

Harbour who came up and slapped us on the back and said: Thank God, we finally

have a government that is engaged -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: I did not hear too much, Mr. Speaker, in terms of positive

reinforcements from some people in the processing sector because, no, we did not

agree to put a pot of money on the table to buy out people who had processing

licences, who have been sitting around for quite a while, in some cases, waiting

to see if government was going to put a pot of money on the table for that.

Mr. Speaker, we put $100 million or $140 million in provincial money on the

table to help people expand their fleet, modernize their fleet, a provincial

initiative through the loan guarantee program.

Mr. Speaker, this government, this Premier, we have been there and we will be

there all the way through the bit and piece, whether the Opposition likes it or

not.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr Speaker.

I say to the minister, there was not one item in that plan for a fish plant

worker, not one item, and you talk about spending $130 million on fish

harvesters in loans. You know as well as I do that all these fish harvesters go

to a bank; they take the loan. They take the loan themselves, and there have

been very little delinquent loans. You told me that yourself here in the last

few days, so I don't know how you can stand here and say that you are spending

$130 million on fish harvesters, because you obviously don't know what you are

talking about.

Mr. Speaker, the Premier and the Minister of Fisheries have both indicated

that they were prepared to cost-share these early retirement packages with the

federal government on a 70-30 basis. In fact, the Minister of Fisheries was out

publicly in the newspapers saying that would cost the Province around $30

million. Obviously, you have the $30 million.

I ask you today, and your Premier: Are you prepared to spend that $30 million

on early retirement packages for fish harvesters and plant workers with or

without the federal government?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, the only person who consistently, in this bit

and piece, who does not know what he is talking about, who never knows what he

is talking about, and who will never know what he is talking about, Mr. Speaker,

is the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition knows - everybody

knows, people in the fishing industry and the harvesting sector know - that if

you are going to go to the bank to get a loan to do a major improvement to your

boat, or buy a new boat, Mr. Speaker, you cannot get it without a government

loan guarantee. The only way you can get it without that, Mr. Speaker, is if

there is a processor or a fish company that guarantees the loan. Mr. Speaker,

when we put the taxpayers' name on the back of that loan, we are committing

the taxpayer to pay for it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, the only thing missing from the Minister of

Fisheries is a toque and the back of a pickup truck.

My question is for the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development,

another department that has received a boost in its budget.

Mr. Speaker, this might seem as a good sign of government investing in

businesses, innovation and development here in the Province except when you

examine what this department actually spent last year, which was nearly 57 per

cent less than what was budgeted. In fact, Mr. Speaker, of the $8 million

available for loans under the Strategic Investment Fund, only $50,000 was spent.

Clearly, the fact that businesses did not take advantage of the money available

to them is a sure sign of the lack of confidence in this Province under the

leadership of this government.

I ask the minister: What are you doing to ensure this will not be the case

this year?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural

Development.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The $50,000 is somewhere around the same amount as the member opposite spent

when she was minister on her around the world tour.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, there is a perfectly logical reason for the

discrepancy in the Budget Estimates. It was explained in Estimates -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is a great deal of shouting on both sides of the House. The Speaker is

unable to hear the response.

The Chair recognizes the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development.

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, as I said, there is a perfectly logical reason as to why the $8

million wasn't utilized last year. The year before was the beginning of a $25

million fund that we are establishing for small and medium-sized enterprises.

There was $10 million budgeted to it in 2005-2006 and $8 million in additional

money was budgeted in 2006-2007. Because there wasn't a program in existence

prior to 2005, Mr. Speaker, the business community was unaware of its

availability. It took us some time to get the program fully operational and some

time to get the information out to businesses about this program. That, Mr.

Speaker, has been done. We are continuing on with the $8 million this year, and

further on next year until we realize, in another two years, a fully subscribed

$25 million revolving fund.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, the personal attacks have no weight here

whatsoever. The minister should know that. I am wondering how much he spent on

his European tour last month and whether or not he still likes Shiraz and

striploin steaks as reported in the paper.

Minister, you can try to full some of the people some of the time but you can't

fool all of the people all of the time. Your budget -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Colleagues, time is passing quickly.

The Chair recognizes the Member for Grand Bank and asks her to put her

question.

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, the Budget is misleading for those people who are

desperately waiting for help so they don't have to leave their families and

their communities. It leads them to think that this government is busy with a

job creation action plan, but there is no sign of any such plan. What the recent

Budget Estimates reveal instead is another failure to use the funds that were

allocated that could have gone to support rural businesses and regions.

I ask the minister: How can he justify that only $1 million of the $9 million

available in grants for the support of small and medium-sized businesses was

used for this purpose, and what happened to the $8 million that wasn't spent?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural

Development.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I say to the member opposite, Mr. Speaker, I buy my wine by the glass, I don't

have it delivered by the case. I don't have it delivered by the case to my

home, Mr. Speaker, I can assure you that. I will never have the face, Mr.

Speaker, to stand up in this House and defend a case of wine being delivered to

my house on the taxpayers' bill.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair is asking members of the House for their cooperation. I do believe

that the minister wishes to continue his answer and I ask him to continue it

quickly.

MR. TAYLOR: Yes, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, there is now an $18 million fund for loans, it is not for

grants. There is a $5 million Regional Sectoral Diversification Fund that is

fully subscribed in the previous budget year with some carryover because of our

funding partners, primarily at the federal level, some delays in cash flow. The

programs are being utilized at an increasing rate. We have two funds amounting

to $5 million as part of our Innovation Strategy. All of our funds, Mr. Speaker,

are being utilized at an increasing rate and they are making an impact in rural

Newfoundland and Labrador, in her own district.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

MS FOOTE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I may buy it by the bottle but it is cheaper than his by the glass.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, instead of fooling the people of this Province and

even outside investors, the department's Web site boasts that $9 million was

used to finance small and medium-sized business, when in fact it has already

stated only $1 million was provided. It is also misleading to say that $5

million was allocated for Innovation when in fact only $1.3 million was spent.

To correct another figure on the department's Web site, Mr. Speaker, $4.3

million was spent in the Regional Development sector, not $7.9 million.

I ask the minister: When is his department going to remove those misleading

stats off the department's Web site and tell the true story, the story that in

this government's short history it has been a dismal failure when it comes to

creating jobs in the Province?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural

Development.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, there is an old adage that when you are in a

hole you should stop digging. I would advise the Member for Grand Bank to stop

digging, Mr. Speaker. I can tell you, she must subscribe to that movie line,

cheaper by the dozen.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, let me say this, we do not provide any

misleading statements. It is clear in the Estimates of the Department of

Innovation, Trade and Rural Development as to what the expenditures were, what

the budgets were. In the Estimates Committee the other night the Member for

Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair asked very pointed questions as to what the money

was spent on, why it was not fully utilized, and she was given very concise

answers, as I always provide, Mr. Speaker.

So, Mr. Speaker, the answers are there. If she wants to go and review Hansard

she can get it. If she wants to contact the office, we can give her a full

explanation as to why we spent $250,000 from the RSDF fund for the Grand Bank

Mariner's Memorial; why we put another $250,000 from the SME fund into dynamic

air shelters. Mr. Speaker, all kinds of examples of where these funds are being

expended in rural Newfoundland and Labrador to foster economic -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The questions and answers today are absolutely intoxicating.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. PARSONS: Mr. Speaker, this is my question for the Minister of

Innovation.

Earlier this week the minister stated that there was still no deal finalized

with Persona, Rogers and MTS Allstream regarding the fibre optic proposal, even

though the lead proponent, Persona, is now in the process of selling itself. The

minister stated that there were eight conditions established by Cabinet before

any money would flow.

I ask the minister: Would you be prepared to provide us with a list of those

conditions?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural

Development.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I see no reason why I could not provide that information. There

was an issue, on a previous date, where I read out most of the conditions. There

was one condition that I did not lay out publicly at the time. The reason I did

not lay it out publicly was because it referenced the minimum number of strands

that we required as directed by Cabinet and based on the EWA report. I did not

release that publicly at the time because, as I said yesterday in a scrum, it

would be pretty stupid to release your minimum, your bottom line when you are in

the middle of negotiations.

So, Mr. Speaker, everything other than the minimum number of strands is

available to the Leader of the Opposition, and maybe I can provide that part

once I check with my officials.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I understand the minister advised me this morning that he would be tabling

today some information I requested yesterday, and we certainly appreciated that.

We have also provided to the media, and members of the public today,

approximately 150 documents that we feel outline the accurate timeline of the

process that was involved in this fibre optic deal. My other questions today

will relate to trying to get some further information.

Mr. Minister, you announced yesterday that EWA would be contracted to do

another analysis of the latest project proposal that has been put on your desk

by these proponents. With the obvious shortcomings that were identified in the

last EWA report, why is government not willing to contract another company to do

due diligence on the deal? Why is government once again unwilling to do an RFP

to find the best available consultant? How much has government paid to EWA in

consulting fees over the last two years, and would you be prepared to table that

information?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural

Development.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is important to note that the Opposition has laid out what they believe to

be an accurate timeline - what they believe, as I said, Mr. Speaker, being the

important part there. It does not necessarily mean that it is accurate.

The fact of the matter is, I did not announce yesterday that we were doing

another review with EWA of this proposal. I announced that back on November 2,

when we had our press conference. I announced that again when I read out the MC

on a media outlet back in December or January, whenever it was. All of this

stuff has been public knowledge for quite some period of time.

As for EWA, and the deficiencies in the report, I do not know what he is

talking about. There are deficiencies in his mind. We do not believe that there

is any problem with the report. Our officials do not see where there is any

problem with the report. These are world-class consultants in the

telecommunications industry. These people do work for the U.S. Department of

Defence. They do work for all kinds of world-renowned agencies in the U.S. and

Canada. They do work for, I believe, six provincial governments and the federal

government. I do not know, Mr. Speaker; the only people who have a problem with

their reputation is the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I realize this is Question Period and we do not get many answers, but it was

fairly straightforward, Minister: Will you provide the information concerning

how much has been paid to EWA for consulting fees; and if, indeed, you did this

back in November when you announced it, is it done and can we have a copy of

such? Now, that is pretty straightforward.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural

Development.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, I apologize to the member opposite because the

thing is, my memory is -

AN HON. MEMBER: Not very good.

MR. TAYLOR: It is not very good, no, that is right, when it comes to

listening to members opposite. It is very good when it comes to the details of

deals that we are involved with, I can guarantee you that, but when it comes to

listening to some of the dribble opposite I do have a little bit of a problem

retaining it.

His question was fairly lengthy the last time and, as a result, I dealt with

most of it and I forgot the piece about the consulting fees.

Mr. Speaker, I will endeavour to find the information for the hon. member

and, as soon as I can provide it to the House, it will be tabled here.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

On December 7 the minister stated in Hansard, and it is recorded in Hansard,

he refused to put the funding project on hold, when he was asked, until the

Auditor General completed his investigation. He said, "No, I will not make

that commitment. The fact of the matter is, we have a budget process to go

through. This infrastructure has to be built...".

On Tuesday of this week, the minister stated that this project was subject to

a long list of conditions being met and that, until those conditions are met,

there will not be any money put forward, there will not be any cash flow.

I ask the minister: Why was there such a rush to invest in the project last

fall, but now we seem to have a continuing slower approach? Has anything

happened in this proposal to reduce government's confidence that there are

sufficient safeguards to protect our investment and to protect the taxpayers

from any possible future additional costs on this project?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural

Development.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we have been proceeding with negotiations. We have identified

funds in the budget process, Mr. Speaker. This project is proceeding. All I have

said, simply, all the way through, is, until all of the conditions are met and a

final, binding, legal document is prepared, available to be signed off and

approved by Cabinet, Mr. Speaker, we will not be flowing the money.

As for any problems, Mr. Speaker, no, I am not aware of any problems. The

reason I do not see any problems thus far, and do not foresee any problems, Mr.

Speaker, is because of the impeccable work that our very capable officials in

the Department of INTRD, Finance and Justice have done on this file. The 6,200

e-mails that were released to the Opposition and to the public, Mr. Speaker, is

more than abundant evidence of that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, there is no one certainly on this side suggesting, or I believe

even in the public, that there may not be some merit to this fibre optic

proposal; however -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

That is not the issue.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. PARSONS: The problems arise -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. PARSONS: Obviously, the members opposite, including the Premier and

the minister, do not want to even hear the question.

The problems arise, Mr. Speaker, when you examine and evaluate whether the

proper process and procedure was followed.

We have seen concerns raised about the lack of a tender, the lack of a

concrete business plan, the lack of a proper business analysis, the uncertainty

concerning what we are getting for our money, the involvement of the Premier,

and the list goes on. As a matter of fact, the lead proponent now, at this stage

of the game, is being sold.

If the minister believes that the project has merit, as it may, why not do

the appropriate thing and restart the process, call for RFPs, follow the proper

procedures, include - for example, why don't we include fibre optic links to

Labrador and to the Northern Peninsula, which are not in the present proposal?

I ask the minister: To avoid any further questions surrounding this project,

is government willing to start the process fresh, and the second time around to

do it right?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural

Development.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, I tell you why we won't stop the project.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is some shouting across the floor, and the Chair cannot hear -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural

Development.

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, Winston Churchill observed about one of his colleagues one time

- I forget the name of the person - that if you wanted nothing done there was no

better person for the job. That is like the people opposite. If the people of

Newfoundland and Labrador want nothing done, there is no crowd better up to the

task, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: I will tell you why, Mr. Speaker. Right here, in 2001,

sitting in a filing cabinet in INTRD, the Report of the National Broadband Task

Force - I have the executive

summary here - established in 2001 by the national

Minister of Industry, Canada. The principal mandate of the task force, blah blah

blah, was to lay out a plan to have high speed fibre optic connectivity through

to all regions of the country by -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, can you find something in the rules of this

House -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair has repeatedly asked members for their cooperation.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) million dollars.

MR. SPEAKER: Order!

The Chair has repeatedly asked members for their cooperation. Question Period

cannot continue if we don't have the cooperation of all members.

The Chair recognizes the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development,

and advises him he has about fifteen seconds to complete his answer.

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I will just say this: That this report sat in that office since

2001, when this was done; 2001, Mr. Speaker. The question is: Why didn't they

action it? Why didn't they do an RFP? Why didn't they find the money? Why

didn't they work with Industry Canada and the federal government through the

Strategic Infrastructure Fund to build it? They didn't do it, Mr. Speaker, and

that is the reason why we are trying to move it along right now.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Humber Valley has time for one question.

MR. BALL: Mr. Speaker, 911 service allows individuals to dial one

three-digit number to access emergency services, including medical, fire and

police. The Province is the only Atlantic province without provincial-wide

coverage for land-based 911 emergency response services. Currently, only 40 per

cent of the Province's population and less than 10 per cent of the communities

on the Island portion of the Province have access to 911 service. Furthermore,

there is no land-based 911 service in Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, my question to the Minister of Health and Community Services:

Why did government ignore the need for this service in this year's Budget, and

when is it going to make this Province-wide 911 service a priority?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal Affairs.

You have about thirty seconds for your answer.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, in the urban areas of the Province - in St. John's,

for example, there is a 911 system -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

To be fair to the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi, we must go to the

minister and ask him to finish his answer in about fifteen to twenty seconds.

MR. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is not something that can be addressed in fifteen or twenty seconds. In

the meantime I will say this, it is something that we have had discussed within

the Department of Municipal Affairs with DMO and we have had discussions with

people in the private industry to have a look at the 911 system across the

Province. Some ten years ago there was an estimate done, it would cost somewhere

around $10 million. That is in 1996, 1997 dollars. So it is something that we

are looking at, but in fifteen seconds I cannot address it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions today are for the Minister of Education, in reference to the

release of the Skilled Trades Task Force Action Plan and government's response

to the recommendations.

Mr. Speaker, women graduating from trades programs are having a hard time

getting hired as apprentices compared to male graduates; a fact that was

recognized in the 2003 Department of Education Report entitled, The

Apprenticeship Experience. Government knows the barriers that exist for women

but I see little action in this report from the Skilled Trades Task Force and

the response from government beyond expanding mentorships and scholarships for

women, which was part of goal fourteen.

My question for the minister is: In the government's commitment to hire

more apprentices on government contracts and through regional health and school

boards, goal nine in the report, why is there no employment equity provision to

ensure that women and other under-represented workers are hired for this

government related work?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I was very pleased this morning to be able to

release the Skilled Task Force report that we have, which has been a work that

has been in progress since last March. I was joined by my colleague, the MHA for

St. John's North, Bob Ridgley, who chaired that committee for us.

Mr. Speaker, we want to position our Province as having the people who have

the skills and the knowledge to be able to bring us into the future, and we have

a very positive future, Mr. Speaker, and we have some very large-scale

developments that are ongoing. One way that we are going to be able to bring our

people and our workers to the future to make sure that they are well trained and

can take the jobs that are going to come to this Province, is to make sure that

under-represented groups have the opportunity to fill those gaps. Mr. Speaker,

we are committed in every part of government, in everything we do as we move

this Province forward, to make sure that women take their rightful place in this

government.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: I, too, am very glad that the report came out and I have

followed this for the couple of years that we have been waiting for it, but the

minister still did not answer my question.

She says that she is concerned about women's status and she is the Minister

Responsible for the Status of Women. Why was there not an employment equity

provision in this action that you are going to take the same way that you had

employment equity provisions with some of the oil and gas projects?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education, and Minister Responsible

for the Status of Women.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I would like to stress that this government takes

women's issues very seriously. As we advance any of our major projects we will

certainly make sure that the rights of women are included and that we advance

the status of women.

Mr. Speaker, I think this government has probably done more to advance the

status of women than any government we have had in the history of this Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, we have a Provincial Advisory Council on the

Status of Women that we have had in this Province for more than twenty-five

years. After we passed the Budget this year, Mr. Speaker, this is what we heard

back from the women's community, from the Advisory Council. It says: The

Advisory Council extends our congratulations to you and your government on

delivering a Budget that includes a number of advances for women and their

families.

Mr. Speaker, we will continue to do just that with every program we advance

in this government.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The time allotted for Question Period has expired.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.

Tabling of Documents.

Tabling of Documents

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

MR. T. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, pursuant to

section 28(4)(

e) of the

Financial Administration Act, I am tabling two special warrants relating to the

2006-2007 fiscal year.

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to

section 28(4)(

e) of the Financial Administration

Act, I am tabling one Order in Council for the creation of one new subhead

activity of expenditure for the 2006-2007 fiscal year.

Furthermore, Mr. Speaker, pursuant to

section 26(5)(

a) of the Financial

Administration Act, I am tabling sixteen Orders in Council relating to funding

pre-commitments for the 2007-2008 to the 2011-2012 fiscal years.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Furthering Tabling of Documents?

Notices of Motions.

Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given.

Answers to Questions for Which Notice has been Given

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural

Development.

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Yesterday in the House, I was asked to table a letter - I could have done it

under Tabling of Documents. I have a couple of things here I want to table, and

it is in response to questions yesterday. So if this is the appropriate place I

will do it here if not -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. TAYLOR: Anyway, I was asked yesterday to table the letter from Mr.

MacDonald to the Premier in 2005 as it relates to support for the Trans-Gulf

initiative to Industry Canada, and I was asked to table the Premier's letter

to the federal government. Mr. Speaker, I provide that to all hon. members and

the public, very straightforward.

Furthermore, in Question Period yesterday, the Opposition House Leader, I

guess it was, was suggesting that there was an attempt or there was a meeting

between the Premier and the president, Mr. John MacDonald of MTS Allstream.

Mr. Speaker, I want to ensure and clear up the air on that, that there was

absolutely, no such meeting. There was never a meeting scheduled. While they are

selective in the presenting of documents to the media, I want to provide the

written record here of the e-mail transmission -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) wasn't in the box.

MR. TAYLOR: It was in the box, Mr. Speaker. It says here, the

communications -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair reminds members that during the Tabling of Documents section, which

we had passed, but by consent, I think we agreed to let the tabling occur at

this time.

MR. PARSONS: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Pardon?

MR. PARSONS: A point of order.

MR. SPEAKER: A point of order has been raised.

The Chair also reminds members that we have called for Answers to Questions

for Which Notice has been Given, and that usually refers to notices which are on

the Order Paper. These answers, which we are dealing with now, would have been

more appropriately dealt with under Tabling of Documents.

The Chair recognizes the point of order by the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My point, Mr. Speaker, is that I have no problem with the minister tabling

the documents. He indicated to me this morning in a phone conversation, which he

did an interview with CBC, that he would be tabling it. We did concur that it

could be done under this

section by consent, and that is fine (inaudible) the

floor, but it is also understood that when you table documents, you table them.

It is not a position and not a place for commentary. If we want to have a

soapbox or whatever, we table. There is a time and place to do that in this

House.

I suggest to the minister, we await his documents anxiously, we will be

reviewing and examining them, and if we want to show our different

interpretations of what it says or not we will take another appropriate time to

do that. Otherwise, our leave to table will be withdrawn.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair reminds hon. members of the usual protocols. Tabling of Documents

had been called. The Chair had called Answers to Questions for which Notice has

been Given. In that particular section, a minister has far more discretion to be

able to comment on the issues that have been raised. Usually that falls under

the answers that have been tabled in the House in the appropriate place.

In this particular case I ask the minister, if he is going to table

documents, that he table the documents without elaboration.

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In that case, Mr. Speaker, bearing in the mind that while they want to ask

questions they do not want answers, because you have to put this in context and

you have to point it out, so understanding that, Mr. Speaker, I will wait until

Question Period on Monday so that I can do it in the manner that is appropriate,

that I think is appropriate.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. PARSONS: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: A point of order has been raised by the Opposition House

Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I have no problem, if that is the approach the minister wishes to take. We

can certainly do it any time he wishes. It just means that the public of this

Province will have to wait longer to get answers from this government.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. PARSONS: In the meantime, Mr. Speaker, everybody who was watching the

minister about three minutes ago saw him table the letter that Dean MacDonald

sent to the Premier. He cannot withdraw what he already tabled. He tabled the

letter from Dean MacDonald, and the Premier's letter to the federal minister.

That must stay in; it is tabled.

MR. SPEAKER: Speaking to the point of order, the hon. the Government

House Leader.

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, it is rather elementary that once a document is

tabled it is tabled. My colleague has given no indication to the House in any

form that he intends to haul off the Table something that he has laid on the

Table. Mr. Speaker, that is not the intent. The intention was - can't do it

anyway, knows he can't do it. The intention was that the remaining documents

that he has will be dealt with in Question Period if the Opposition raise them.

That is the point, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Speaking to the point of order, the hon. the Opposition

House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Mr. Speaker, the only point is: Will the letter that he

already tabled from Dean MacDonald be ordered to stay tabled? That is all I need

to know.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

All documents that the minister had identified as tabling, they are deemed to

be tabled when the minister says those words. Therefore, I am sure the minister

will be quite willing to comply.

We were on the

section called Answers to Questions for which Notice has been

Given.

Petitions.

Orders of the Day.

Orders of the Day

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we are going to move, under Orders of the Day, to Motion 3,

which is the concurrence motion.

There are two Committees that have reported and at this time, under Order 3,

I would like to call the Resource Estimates for the Resource Committee.

MR. SPEAKER: The Government House Leader has called Order 3, the Resource

Committee.

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for Bonavista North.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HARDING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased, as Chairman of the Resource Committee, to begin the concurrence

debate today on the review of six departmental Estimates that came under our

Committee.

First of all, I would like to acknowledge the members who made up the

Resources Committee. There were, in addition to myself, the Members for Grand

Bank, Labrador West, Windsor-Springdale, Trinity-Bay de Verde, Cartwright-L'Anse

au Clair, and the Bay of Islands.

In addition, I would also like to acknowledge a number of other members who

substituted for some of the Committee members, and these members were, the

Members for St. Barbe, Ferryland, Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi, and Torngat Mountains.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, there seems to be a bit of a problem here

between both sides of the House, and I like operating on consensus.

I understood that the arrangement was that we would proceed with the

concurrence debate on the Resource Estimates Committee, because I believe that

was the first one that was tabled yesterday. Maybe I took it for granted, I am

not sure, but I understand from my colleagues across the way that their House

Leader understood that we would proceed with Government Services. I have no

problem with that.

The Chair of the Government Services Committee is ready to introduce those

Estimates. Rather than cause any kafuffle or any allegations of breaking of

words, or anything of that nature, I believe my colleague is ready to introduce

the Government Services Estimates. The ministers are always ready to debate

their Estimates, so we will go with Government Services, just in case there has

been a misunderstanding.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Acting Opposition House Leader.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Yes, we were under the understanding that it would have been Government

Services, and our people on this side were prepared for this afternoon. I want

to thank the Government House Leader for making that change. We really

appreciate that, Sir.

MR. SPEAKER: The Chair acknowledges the agreement.

The Chair will also revert so there will be no time lost for the hon. members

who wish to speak to the Resource Committee. We will not count the time that has

already been expended. It was only about two minutes in any case.

The Chair now recognizes the hon. the Member for Terra Nova speaking to Order

3, the Government Services Committee.

MR. ORAM: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I actually did not know that this was coming, either, today, so you will have

to bear with me to work through this.

It is my pleasure to begin concurrence debate for Estimates on the following

departments: Government Services, of course, the hon. Minister Whalen; Works,

Services and Transportation and Labrador Affairs, again, the hon. Minister

Hickey; Finance and Public Service, the hon. Minister Marshall; and

Intergovernmental Affairs, the hon. Minister Ottenheimer. I am hoping that I am

not forgetting one, because I had to jot down these notes within ten seconds.

First of all, I would also like to say thank you to the Committee for a great

job on all of the -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I remind the hon. member, it is occurring very frequently, in your

presentation, in presentations made to the House, we should not refer to members

other than by their titles. It has happened on a number of occasions when

members refer to ministers both by their title and then by their name. An

established protocol is that you cannot do indirectly what you cannot do

directly, so therefore I ask all hon. members for their co-operation in that

regard.

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for Terra Nova.

MR. ORAM: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I do apologize for that today. I certainly know the difference of that.

I would like to thank the Committee for their work on these particular

Estimates. It was very informative. There were a lot of questions that were

asked by the Opposition and also by government side as well, and we had some

great Estimates meetings together. In fact, I think it will go down in history,

Mr. Speaker, the Estimates meeting with the Works, Services and Transportation

Minister and with, of course, the Member for Torngat Mountains and the minister

debating and talking about and questioning the Labrador Affairs portfolio. It

was very informative, and I think all parties found it very informative during

those Estimates. So, again, I would like to begin concurrence debate on those

particular departments.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.

MR. JOYCE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the member for starting the concurrence debate. I am standing here

today in the role as the critic for Transportation and Works in the department.

It is a department which I have been very vocal on over the last number of

years. It is a department in which I feel there are a lot of safety issues that

have not been addressed over a number of years.

I am going to speak first, Mr. Speaker, on the Bay of Islands, the district

which I represent. It is mainly a rural district, just outside Corner Brook.

Part of it is the City of Corner Brook. There are a number of issues, concerns,

that have been raised over the last number of years, and last year, that I have

brought forth with the help of some town councils, individuals, and other

people. I will be speaking on some of the issues that were raised at the time,

and some of the concerns that were raised in the district.

One of the most disappointing things that I found with the Department of

Transportation and Works - and it is not just with this minister, so I hope the

minister does not take it personally, it is also the other two previous

ministers - I have yet to get a meeting with either one of the three

Transportation Ministers in the last three-and-a-half years. I could not even

get in their office to have a meeting, representing a district in the rural

District of Bay of Islands.

Not only couldn't I get a meeting, the town councils that I represent are

after writing these three ministers - so, I say to the current minister, do not

take it personally, it is not just you, it is the three of you - and they would

not even give them the decency and the respect of having a meeting to discuss

their concerns. That is the level that the department has reached, that the town

councils could not even get a meeting.

I know one of the town councils, Gillams, and I have to give the Mayor, Eddie

Blanchard, some credit here. Eddie Blanchard spearheaded a group on the North

Shore of the Bay of Islands to bring the concerns of the transportation and

works issues to the forefront.

I know the minister was well aware of it. I know the council, on behalf of

the residents, wrote the minister and asked him out to a public meeting. I know

all the councils wrote the ministers a joint letter, actually, on the North

Shore. On the South Shore, separate councils wrote, but on the North Shore the

councils got together and wrote a joint letter and they still could not get a

meeting.

One of the most, I guess, disappointing things for the residents who arranged

the meeting, and were raising the issue publicly, was when the minister finally

felt some heat and he turned on - and he went to the local media. Here is what

the minister had to say. This is after all the mayors got together and wrote him

for about a year, a year-and-a-half, and could not get a meeting. It was after

all of the residents were contacting - and I presented petitions in this House,

petitions upon petitions upon petitions, and here is what the minister said: The

minister believes the problem falls with the Liberal MHA for Bay of Islands,

Eddie Joyce. He said the meeting was orchestrated in a way that it was

impossible for him to attend.

What a condescending attitude towards the mayors, the residents, and the

people who organized that meeting, that I arranged this meeting so you could not

attend. Minister, that is so absolutely not true, absolutely not true. You know

it is not true. Not only should you turn around and write and apologize to the

residents who did it, you should go out and give them the courtesy of at least

meeting with them.

I know ministers opposite, we had meetings with the same group. I know the

Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs, and Environment and Conservation

came out. They met with the residents last May. They met with them. They came

out and had a joint meeting with all of the town councils, all of the people,

concerning the waste management disposal site. They had a meeting; had a great

meeting, actually. I am sure there are going to be more follow-ups. In actual

fact, the Minister of Municipal Affairs just attended a Great Humber Joint

Council meeting about two or three weeks ago and had a great meeting,

informative, a lot of hard-hitting questions, but at least the minister had the

guts and he took his responsibility seriously enough that he went out and sat

down face to face to discuss the issue. You have to admire the minister who

would do that.

Here is this minister, with the town councils out writing letters after

letters after letters, calling the minister, and here is what the minister

finally had to say, Mr. Speaker. This is what the minister finally had to say,

and it is kind of disappointing: The minister encouraged the council

representatives to come to St. John's to meet with him.

So, here are the town councils on the North Shore of the Bay of Islands,

asking the minister to come out and meet with them. After the minister refuses

to meet with them, puts condescending remarks in the paper saying that I

orchestrated the meeting, not giving the town councils any credit whatsoever for

bringing the concerns of the residents to the minister, he turns around and

says: If you want to meet with me, come on into St. John's. That is the

attitude, Mr. Speaker, towards rural Newfoundland and Labrador that is portrayed

by this government. That is the exact attitude.

These residents out there continued their fight and for three years there

wasn't one cent spent in the Bay of Islands, three and a half actually, and

still none. As of now, almost four years and not one cent. This year I think

there was $800,000 allocated for the District of the Bay of Islands.

I remember one year, Mr. Speaker - and this was so funny, I went to the media

- they put out this press release about $350,000 or $380,000, money spent for

Humber East, Humber West and the Bay of Islands. The media came to me and said:

Look, they are spending money. I said: Yes, let's go down through the

projects: Lewin Parkway up in Humber East; they are going to do the ramp out by

the Trans-Canada Highway, Humber West. There wasn't one cent, not one cent of

that money - which they tried to camouflage; oh, we are doing all this work -

not one cent spent in the District of the Bay of Islands, but yet they included

it just to try to save the embarrassment of saying they had never put any money

into the District of Bay of Islands.

I say to the minister, it is still not too late to save a bit of face; go out

and meet with the residents, go out and meet with the town councils. I will even

arrange it for you. I say to the minister, you don't have to drive down

through on a Sunday morning on a piece of road in McIver's that has been

dangerous for the last four or five years. You don't have to drive down on

through and stop off at a convenience store, eleven o'clock on a Sunday

morning, walk in and ask the clerk: Will you do me a favour? Can you phone

around the Town of McIver's and see if there is a counselor to show me where

the bad spot is. I am not sure where to go. You don't have to do that,

Minister. I have no problem going with you and arranging the meeting, and it

will be non-partisan. We will be sitting down discussing the issues, I can

assure you. I have done it on numerous occasions. There are ministers across the

way I have done it with. They know that.

When you give the condescending attitude, that if you want to meet with me,

come on into St. John's - the funny part, Mr. Speaker, and I have to bring

this up because I was asked to bring it up, was when the minister didn't meet

with them, and they refused to meet, the minister got out in the local media and

said that he was never invited to the meeting. Here is a local volunteer, a

mayor, who got his town council to invite the minister, and when the minister

got in the box, because he would not discuss the serious issues in the District

of the Bay of Islands, very serious, probably because it is a Liberal district,

do you know what the clerk of the town council did? She went out and got the fax

that she sent to confirm that the fax was sent to the minister. After the fax

was taken and sent into the minister's office, the next excuse that came up of

why the minister would not meet: Oh, it got lost behind the fax machine and one

of the cleaners must have taken it and put it in the garbage. That was the last

excuse that was heard after it was proven that there was an actual request with

plenty of time for the minister to show up at the meeting. I am sure it was two

or three weeks, lots of time, lots of notice - that the minister said they even

faxed it in. That was the latest excuse that we heard, that some cleaner took it

and threw it in the garbage.

So, minister, if you want to save - then, again, it is not only saving a bit

of face with the residents, it is for the safety concerns. I implore upon you,

that you should at least meet with the town councils. They do have some

concerns, and if you want to exclude me, that is fine. I have no problem with

it. I have absolutely no problem if you want to exclude me. I know you did it to

the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair. I have no problem with that,

absolutely none. I have no problem with it, but do the proper thing. Do your

duty as a minister - exercise your duty as a minister and meet with the town

councils that are requesting to meet with you. It is incumbent upon you to hear

their concerns, to hear why they think there are certain areas in government, in

transportation that needs to be looked as concerning to the District of Bay of

Islands. If you do that, I will stand here in this House and I will compliment

you for going out and meeting with them and listening to their concerns. I have

no problem - and I can assure the minister now, if you want me to arrange the

meetings in a non-partisan way, I will do it. I will even arrange the meetings.

I will make a deal with you, I will not even speak at the meetings, just as long

as the town council gets an opportunity where they can sit down and address

their - it is that serious, minister, I say to you.

I remember one of the issues, Mr. Speaker, that was brought up. It was a

piece of road in McIver's. It was a dangerous piece of road in McIver's

where there were several accidents on. I know last summer there was a truck that

went up with a load of wood and tipped over. They had to bring in forklifts from

Cox's Cove to lift the load back up, very dangerous. A lot of our school buses

are going over it on a regular basis. It is extremely dangerous.

The former minister, the minister from Lewisporte, sent out a press release:

I have advised my senior engineer who assessed this road that there is some need

for repairs. The repairs required could easily be handled through our regular

summer maintenance program. That is what was said, Mr. Speaker. That it could be

done under a regular summer maintenance program. I, at the time, stood here in

this House again and asked the minister to go with me, he would not do it. The

road was patched over, it was fixed. Guess what? After the departmental

officials put it on their priority list in the Bay of Islands and the Corner

Brook Western Region for years, finally there is money put aside this year.

Instead of facing up and realizing there was a dangerous situation three years

ago, they finally came to their senses and allocated money, instead of sloughing

it off and saying: Oh, we can do it under summer maintenance. Oh, we have a

problem with this here but we can fix it. Instead of facing the problem -

finally, there is money set aside of that $800,000 to fix this dangerous piece

of road. I know it has been on their priority list for the department for a

number of years, at least three years, two for sure, and finally the money has

been put aside. It is great, because it is a very dangerous road. An extremely

dangerous road and this piece of road caused a lot of concern for a lot of

people who were driving over it.

Mr. Speaker, we always go on their priority list. I heard the minister on

numerous occasions talking about the big priority list and here was the minister

at the time, the minister from Lewisporte sends out: Our department develops a

list of priorities for road improvements based on recommendations from our

senior officials. That is what he said, Mr. Speaker. It was funny, actually. It

was rather funny when I read that and thought about the dangerous roads in the

District of the Bay of Islands. It was very dangerous, actually. Here we were in

a situation out in the Bay of Islands, very dangerous roads, could not get any

money for three or four years, fighting and scraping and scrapping, took off

their road maintenance. The few people they had on doing a bit of road

maintenance, that was gone.

MR. SPEAKER (Fitzgerald): Order, please!

I hate to interrupt the hon. Member for Bay of Islands, but if the hon.

member would allow me, the Chair would like to take this opportunity to welcome

a distinguished visitor in the public galleries today, the hon. Minister of

Health from our neighbouring Province of Nova Scotia, the hon. Chris d'Entremont.

Welcome to the House of Assembly.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.

MR. JOYCE: I say to the minister from Nova Scotia, you came at the right

time to hear a good speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JOYCE: You came when a person is speaking the facts here, who is

standing up for his district. Congratulations! Welcome to Newfoundland and

Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, we were talking about their priorities. Here we are talking

about their priorities once again -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. JOYCE: It is a very serious issue, I say to the Member for Mount

Pearl and the Member for Terra Nova. This is a very serious issue.

Here we are talking about their priorities. We could not get money to fix a

road in McIver's - accidents, school buses going over it on a regular basis,

one truck tipped over last year and they had to bring a forklift in to lift the

load back on, residents complained, mayors complained. Everybody in the whole

area complained about it, but it was not on their priority list. Just take a

guess at what was approved? Take a guess, Mr. Speaker. Here was some road up in

Massey Drive, $450,000 spent on some bypass road. The mayor out there at the

time, in Massey Drive, was saying: Oh, we could use it for future development.

Then we had one of the ministers - it was not this minister, because he was

not aware of it at the time and he was not the minister at the time - standing

up and saying: Oh, it is a safety access road. He did not even realize that the

access road was already built. The lock was on the gate for almost a year,

year-and-a-half. It was built back in 2003. He did not even know it was built;

talking about the emergency access road that was built. He did not even know it

was built. So, Mr. Speaker, you have to question when there are press releases

sent out from the ministers talking about their priority list - and here we are

seeing Massey Drive out there, there will not be a house built on it.

Transportation and Works, by the way - I will just inform the residents of

the Bay of Islands and the rest of Newfoundland and Labrador, Transportation and

Works built the road. It was in the Estimates, and said in this House of

Assembly, that Transportation and Works were going to turn the road over to the

town of Massey Drive. Guess what? They went ahead and built the road in such

haste, hopefully that no one would even know it was built; hopefully, did not

know that the money was taken out of the roads capital works program to build.

Guess what? They did not even know that when they were building the road up in

Massey Drive it was connecting with the City of Corner Brook water supply. The

City of Corner Brook said: Hold it, we are not allowing you to turn that over to

Massey Drive and have the control going by our water supply. Guess what? That

road, as we speak right now, is the responsibility of the Department of

Transportation and Works; not even turned over.

So, here we are, a big part of your list, built the road to nowhere. An

emergency access road already built, to turn it over to the town and you cannot

even turn it over to the town because you are going past the City of Corner

Brook water supply. Then you wonder why I question the priorities of the

government.

I said to one departmental official in Corner Brook, when this was announced:

Where was that on your priority list? He said: Ed, that was on our list but I

thought that would be done when my grandchildren were born. That is how far down

the list that was.

Yet, they deprive the safety of the people of Bay of Islands - a proper road

and proper safety. They went off and spent it in Massey Drive to build some

access road, which now the department owns and the department has the

responsibility for. There will be no development and there will be no cars

travelling over it because there is a lock at the end of the gate.

Mr. Speaker, when I question the priorities of the minister I have to bring

forth again, I heard the minister on numerous occasions - numerous, numerous,

numerous occasions - it is kind of disheartening, actually, when the Minister of

Transportation and Works is out making statements in the airwaves in public

which are absolutely, categorically, positively false. When I hear this minister

saying that back in 2002-2003 there was $6 million spent, which is so untrue, it

is just unbelievable.

I have a copy here of the Auditor General's report. We had a meeting, and

there are some members opposite who were at that meeting, and I am sure they

will verify this because I am sure they are hon. members. Anybody can go, by the

way, and look at the Auditor General's own report, under Capital Works; it is

Chapter 2,

Part 2, page 16, 2007. They can look for themselves. I am sure the

Minister of Transportation and Works reviewed the Auditor General's report,

and I am sure he is well aware of it, because the facts and figures came right

from his department. They came right from the minister's own department.

In the meeting that we had in Public Accounts, I asked the Auditor General:

Will you stand by these numbers? Because I explained what was being said out in

the public. He said: Absolutely. I said: How solid are these numbers? He said:

One hundred per cent solid.

I just want to go over some of the false statements that were put out in the

media about the lack of money, and how much money is actually being spent over

the number of years. This is very important when you get into a debate, very

important, because the facts do count. The facts do matter, Mr. Speaker.

In 2001, when we were in government, when we were part of the Administration,

road construction was $79.4 million, road maintenance $19.2 million. Total

construction and maintenance, $98.6 million.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I remind the hon. Member for the Bay of Islands that his speaking time has

expired.

MR. JOYCE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will be back again because I understand leave is not being granted any

more.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER : Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works, and Minister Responsible

for Labrador Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HICKEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to say, it is good to see my good friend and colleague from Nova

Scotia here with us this afternoon. You will enjoy your presence in this hon.

House. I will say to you, though, do not take everything you hear from the other

side as gospel, especially when it is coming from the Member for Bay of Islands.

Mr. Speaker, I want to address some of these issues here, and let me say this

as we move forward here. This government, under this Premier, has done more work

when it comes to investments in roads in this Province since 2003 than ever we

have seen before, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HICKEY: Unprecedented. Unprecedented, Mr. Speaker, the expenditure

that we have had, that this government has put into the roads of this Province.

Let me say this, Mr. Speaker, when I do go back through the history of the

Department of Transportation and Works, the Member for the Bay of Islands can

get up and rant, he can go and twist the truth and all of this, as he is famous

for doing, Mr. Speaker, but let me say this: When we look at the issues of roads

around this Province, I can tell you, when I listen to the Member for the Bay of

Islands talk about the deplorable roads down in his district, let me tell you,

Mr. Speaker, they did not get in that condition since 2003, I can tell you, Mr.

Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HICKEY: Mr. Speaker, I can also say to you that we are putting as

much money into his district this year than ever was put in there by the former

Liberal Administration, I can say, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HICKEY: You know, when I listen to the hon. member, self-righteous,

get up and talk about the transportation network, and this and that, he came to

the Estimates - and I want to say to the people of the Bay of Islands here this

afternoon, I am going to tell the facts of the matter as they should be told,

Mr. Speaker. When that hon. member came to the Estimates Committee there a few

nights ago when we did the Estimates, he came in late, Mr. Speaker, he left

early, Mr. Speaker, and asked three or four questions. That is the critic, Mr.

Speaker, for the Department of Transportation and Works. Absolutely disturbing,

absolutely disgraceful, Mr. Speaker.

He talks about McIver's. We went down to McIver's after we found out

there was an issue down there, Mr. Speaker, and I can tell you that officials

from the Department of Transportation and Works went down and fixed that

problem. Yes, I travelled to the beautiful District of Bay of Islands, an

absolutely beautiful, beautiful district of this Province, and I was very

pleased to go down there.

I will tell you a story. I went down to Cox's Cove, the beautiful community

of Cox's Cove. I decided to go down, and there were a number of gentlemen down

there on the wharf. I went over and introduced myself, and they said: Oh, you

must be looking for Eddie Joyce. I said: No, I am not.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HICKEY: I said: I am here to go over and have a look at some of the

roads in the district, to become familiar. He said: Is this your first time down

here, Minister? I said: Yes, it is, a beautiful area of the Province. Well, he

said, Minister, I have seen more of you than I have seen of Eddie Joyce.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. HICKEY: Let me say this, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I remind the hon. Minister of Transportation and Works that it is

unparliamentary to say a person's name in this House. I ask the minister, when

he is referring to a sitting member, if he would refer to that member either by

the executive position that they carry here or by the district that they

represent.

MR. JOYCE: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands, on a point of order.

MR. JOYCE: The member wants to go on saying about someone in Cox's Cove

who has never seen me, and using my name, but please advise the person that I

have been involved now and elected for eighteen years, so someone has seen me in

Cox's Cove, to elect me for that many years.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is no point of order.

The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.

MR. HICKEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, getting back to the issue of transportation and works in this

Province, we are doing unprecedented work on our roads. Last year we spent in

excess of some $60 million in road improvements. This year we are going to spend

in excess of $66 million in road improvements. We are revamping the ferry fleet.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HICKEY: I was very pleased, Mr. Speaker, with my colleague, the

Minister of Government Services, to go down last week, down to the National

Research Centre, and look at the hulls, the moulds for the new hulls, for the

new ferries that are going to be built right here in this Province, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HICKEY: They are going to be built by companies in the Province of

Newfoundland and Labrador, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HICKEY: Ninety-five per cent of the expenditures for the Department

of Transportation and Works, I can tell you, is happening in rural Newfoundland

and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, while I get the chance to stand on my feet here, I also want to

address the issue that was raised by the Member for Burgeo & LaPoile last

November when he came into this hon. House and very passionately - very

passionately - got up and asked for porta-potties down in his district, down in

Burgeo. He said that people were literally having to climb around the rocks down

on the landwash and up on back of the stages to use the washroom. It is not fit,

it is not humane. That is what the member said from Burgeo & LaPoile.

Mr. Speaker, he asked for porta-potties. Could the minister, he said, give us

at least a porta-potty? Well, we did. We responded. That is more than what he

did for the time that he has been down there, and he has been down there as

member for that district for a good many years.

Let me say this, Mr. Speaker: Porta-potties are not good enough for this

minister, not good enough for this government, and we are going to improve the

washroom facilities in all of our ferry locations in the Province of

Newfoundland and Labrador

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HICKEY: This year, Mr. Speaker, this department and this government

have identified in the Budget the building of a waiting room, washroom and

storage facilities in Burgeo. It is our intention to look at all of the ferry

terminals in this Province, to provide that type of service that should have

been there long ago, long ago.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HICKEY: Mr. Speaker, as we talk about the Department of

Transportation and Works, let me say this: I took the time, when I first became

minister last year, to go throughout most of the Province. I did not get to all

of what I wanted to see; I hope to do more this summer. We went out and we

visited many of the depots. We went out and visited much of the road and, let me

say this, we met with many of the councils.

I can tell you, my previous life in politics was with municipal politics, as

a former mayor and a former town councillor, and I appreciate dealing with town

councils and mayors. I have to say, I have yet to have a bad meeting with a town

councillor or mayor in this Province.

Let me address the issue that the Member for the Bay of Islands raised about

the meeting. Let me say this: There was no fax fell behind the garbage can at

the Department of Transportation and Works. I can tell you that right now. We

checked it out. My officials talked with that particular council, and we were

told very simply, I could not meet with the councils on that short a notice. As

you can well appreciate, Mr. Speaker, I have a very busy

schedule when it comes

to the Minister of Transportation and Works and the Minister of Labrador

Affairs. Do you know what was told to us, when we checked into it further? We

were told that the meeting was scheduled around the Member for the Bay of

Islands'

schedule rather than mine. I can tell you, Mr. Speaker, I will not be

putting my

schedule together around the

schedule of the Member for the Bay of

Islands. I can tell you that.

I will say this to you -

MR. JOYCE: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for the Bay of Islands on a point of order.

MR. JOYCE: Mr. Speaker, I refuse to let the minister stand up here and

make false statements which are just not true. Those statements he is making -

if he wants to stand up and say he didn't want to make the meeting -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask members to be cognizant of the language they use here. Some language,

false statements, the Chair has no way of knowing if statements are false or

whether they are true. I ask the hon. member if he has a point of order, if he

would get to that point of order and do it immediately and allow the debate to

proceed.

In the meantime, I would ask the member to withdraw his comments about making

a false statement. That is strictly unparliamentary, and I ask the member if he

would withdraw that statement.

MR. JOYCE: I withdraw that statement, but, Mr. Speaker, the statement he

is making -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the member if he is speaking to his point of order or if he is

continuing to talk on withdrawing his statement?

MR. JOYCE: Point of order.

MR. SPEAKER: He is talking on the point of order. I will give him a quick

minute to make his point of order.

MR. JOYCE: To the minister: If you want to make statements here, you have

to be accurate in what you are saying. What you are saying is just absolutely

incorrect. It is absolutely incorrect. If you want to make statements out there

- you may not know the information, but I will not stand here and let you make

statements which are incorrect.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is no point of order.

The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.

MR. HICKEY: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I will continue with my comments.

Mr. Speaker, the information I give to this hon. House here today is indeed

accurate. Let me say this, the officials in my department are efficient when it

comes to the handling of faxes and mail coming into my office.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HICKEY: Let me say this: As I said in correspondence to the councils,

I will meet with any council. As a matter of fact just this week I have met

with, I would say, four councils in my office who came in to see me. Obviously,

the House is in session and our responsibilities are here. I, indeed, will be

travelling throughout the Province and I will be indeed meeting with more

councils as we go throughout the Province on our tour this particular summer.

Mr. Speaker, let me say this, when it comes to the Department of

Transportation and Works it is a huge task. It is a huge cost to this government

to keep roads and keep ferries and keep airplanes running. Let me say this, Mr.

Speaker, never before have we seen investments in our roads.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HICKEY: Mr. Speaker, when I asked my officials - after I became

minister I said to one of my officials, I said at the rate of $60 million a

year, how long would it take this department and our government to bring the

road systems of this Province up to an acceptable standard? The official said to

me: Minister, it will take you ten years, $600 million in order to bring the

roads of the Province, in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador up to speed.

Do you know why, Mr. Speaker? Because of the neglect of the hon. crowd on the

other side, I say to you, Mr. Speaker. Sad is what it was.

Now, what we are finding - I will tell you something else that we are just

finding out in recent days as we go along and check some of the pavement. Do you

know what? Prior to the last election there were roads in this Province that

were paved with a half inch of pavement, just put the skim over the top. What is

happening to that pavement now, I say?

I had a mayor in my office from a local service district just yesterday

telling me - down in the District of Bellevue - that there was a piece of

pavement laid there, just to lay it, now it is coming up; half inch thick.

Absolutely, totally disgusting, Mr. Speaker. They left the fleet of this

Province in a mess. They left the roads in the Province in a mess. They left the

airplane services in a mess. They left this Province in a mess and that is why

they are on the other side, I say, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HICKEY: In closing, Mr. Speaker, let me say this as we move forward

here. The people of this Province will see the investment in our roads, in our

ferries, because we are committed to a good transportation system in the

Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. Let there be no doubt about it, they left

a big mess and we are going to clean it up. We are doing a good job about it, a

lot better than they will ever do, I can tell you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.

MR. LANGDON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to have a few words on the concurrence debate.

I have to say upfront that I have been elected for eighteen years. Do you

know the worse part of the job that I like? Is the House. It really is. I sit

here and I listen to people on both sides of the House and I know the

parliamentary system, how it works. You have jibes across and we all do that,

some more so than the others. I probably would like sometimes to do more than I

do but I try to restrain. I doodle a lot here on my books, and everything I have

is all marked up.

I made a barb today, I think it was at the Fisheries Minister, and he said

you are in a bad mood today. I said well that is the only one that I will make

for the day. So, hopefully that is true. I do not want to pontificate here or to

get on a soapbox as to what I want to say, that is not what it is about.

I just want to say a few things in response to the Minister of Transportation

and Works. I do not know if the Auditor General puts out things that are false

or if he puts it out that (inaudible) true. I would hope that it would be true.

I would suppose that it is. I have it here in my hand, it says capital funding

and expenditures, and it is from 2001 to 2006. You have road construction and

road maintenance. You look at the totals, 2001, $98.6 million; 2002, $101.3

million; 2003, $76.1 million; 2004, $65.6 million; 2006, $79.3 million. Now

whether it is correct or not, I will have to leave that to him to assume that it

is or it is not. I will just leave it at that.

I agree with him on one thing, that it is a daunting task to deal with the

transportation needs in our Province. There's no two ways about that. I live

in one of the remote, rural districts in the Province, down on the Connaigre

Peninsula.

The Bay d'Espoir Highway; every year, over the last number of years, we

have put some money into the Bay d'Espoir Highway. We have to. It is the link

that gives these people access to the Trans-Canada for transportation; whether

it be for health, whether it be for freight, whether it be for fish or whatever

the case might be. We have to keep the road up. There's no two ways about

that. The year before last there was $500,000 allocated for the Bay d'Espoir

Highway and it was tendered, but it came in at such an exorbitant price that the

minister did not award it, and I can understand that. Last year they took

another $500,000, plus the $500,000 from the year before and made $1 million and

we did get anywhere between four to five kilometres of road done on the Bay d'Espoir

Highway. It is over 200 kilometres from the Trans-Canada down to my hometown in

Seal Cove, Fortune Bay. That is not counting all the branch roads that go into

Bay d'Espoir or Fortune Bay North. A lot of these roads are twenty years old

when it comes to pavement and so on. It is getting really, really rough. With

the increased activity and the roads not built for the level of transportation

that it is in, then obviously there is going to be wear and deterioration on it.

I have said in the House many, many times, I am thankful for every dollar

that we get in the district on roads because it is not going for me, it is going

for the people that I represent. But, $1 million a year will not cut it going

into the Bay d'Espoir Highway. The thing is, there are about eighty kilometres

of the 200 kilometres that need upgrading. If you look at approximately $150,000

to $200,000 a kilometre per road, you are looking at about $16 million to do

that eighty kilometres, and that does not talk about the other fringe roads that

go to the other communities. That is a lot of money. So, $1 million a year would

give sixteen years before it would be done and, obviously, that cannot happen. I

would hope (inaudible) there would be more money coming into the road work in

that area to see that the people who live there have a decent road to go over.

In going through the Estimates and looking at some of the fees that were

there, any time government takes a fee from a person who lives in the Province

of Newfoundland and Labrador, that is a good idea. It is a dollar less that the

people will pay. The thing about it is - for us here in the House, and a lot of

us represent a lot of rural communities. I know the Member for Port au Port,

just recently elected, know the difficulties that are there. They are rural,

rural. There are many challenges, whether it is him or someone else, to meet

these needs. Whether you are the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's, it is

the same situation. It is rural communities. They have a lot of needs. Any time

there is a fee elimination, then, obviously, that is great, and you will hear no

complaint from me for doing it.

There are a couple of fees that I thought should have been addressed, but

were not addressed. One of them was the ambulance fee. The ambulances in the

rural part of the Province - and, again, like I said, it is not just me pointing

it out. I do not have a lock on the rural communities, no more than anybody

else. I just speak what I think is right and how I see it. The ambulance fee is

costing an untold hardship on many people in the rural part of the Province. A

lot of them are seniors and they make $20,000, $25,000 a year combined income.

When you take an ambulance ride, one ride, whether it is a mile or ten or

whatever, it is $115, and that is a lot of money. These people, when they pay

those ambulance fees, have a choice, really, of doing something different and

probably, in some instances, buying a treat for themselves when it comes to

groceries; because their budgets are so taxed that they just do not have the

money to do all of these things and there are many, many hardships.

There are many times that the constituents ask us, and I am sure they ask

rural members across the way as well, to see if there is some way to help them

alleviate that particular burden that comes on them. It is a burden, there is no

two ways about that. All of us realize that, so I thought that was one area that

would be addressed.

Going across the fees again, another fee that I thought would have probably

been addressed would have been the motor registration fee. Now, it was addressed

to some extent, when you have a 10 per cent decrease when you have Internet

hookup, but there are a lot of people, and I would say a lot of people in the

urban areas, who do not have Internet hookup. Especially in the rural parts of

the Province, many of the older people do not have it. If they were to have

Internet into their homes, to have it, it would cost them $38 or $40 a month and

a lot of them cannot afford that.

That is the situation there, that I thought that something would have been

done for the seniors. I know you cannot do everything all at one time, I

recognize that, but these are a couple of the fees that I thought should have

been taken care of, and we would have seen some reduction in, but there was not.

The other thing we talk about is the difficulty that we see in the rural

parts of the Province for our students. There is no doubt about it, that

students are very important to us in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

We saw a number of them here in the gallery today, on both sides of the House.

These students are our future. What I thought would have happened in the Budget

did not happen.

Granted, give credit where credit is due, for students who were eligible last

year for loans from the Canada Student Loan, and the provincial government this

year, these students only have to pay back 50 per cent of that because half of

it is grant and half of it is loan, and that is good. I have said that here

before. It is not a matter of criticizing for criticizing sake; you have to give

some credit sometimes when things are being done, and I think I try to do that.

What disappointed me most, Mr. Speaker, was the fact that the threshold for

students who are eligible for loans in the Province did not rise. It is the same

in 2007-2008 as it was in 2006-2007, and out of the 20,000 students who attend

post-secondary education institutions in our Province, whether it is Memorial or

the Marine Institute or CONA college campuses across the Province, eight of

about 20,000 qualified. What does that mean? It means that less than half of our

students who attend post-secondary education get no benefit from the Budget. For

me, I think that is wrong.

When you look at the people who were excluded, take a mom and dad who are

nurses here in St. John's and their combined income would probably be about

$80,000 - it seems a lot of money - 50 per cent of it is gone in income tax.

Then you have your mortgage. Then you have to have two cars, if two people are

employed. Then you have all the other amenities of life that you have. So, their

children, when they go to university, are not eligible for a loan, not eligible

for a grant. That is not right. These people have had an opportunity. They are

out there working day in, day out. At least their children who attend

post-secondary education should have that right. I think it is.

I remember, and I have said it in the House so many, many times before that

it is probably redundant and people are sick and tired of hearing it, but I had

an opportunity as a young person going to university back in the 1960s that I

was given free tuition. Man, did I ever appreciate that. It was not on a needs

basis; it was whomever came to the university was eligible to get $100, or get

free tuition.

There was another stipulation that was given. If we, as students from the

rural part of the Province, came to the university, got our degree in education,

we would get a further allowance of $100 a month if we would then sign a

contract to go back into the rural communities to teach. That is what I did,

along with many hundreds of other teachers here in the Province. What it meant

for us was a start in life that we would not have had otherwise. Salaries in

those days were not as high.

I remember, when I finished high school, I could not get into university the

year that I graduated because I did not have French or Latin and that was a

requirement then. I went to summer school for six weeks and went teaching an

elementary class back on the South Coast. My pay for a month was $92.50.

Ninety-two dollars and fifty cents a month. I tell you, that was not a lot of

money; but, do you know what? My parents did not take any money from me and I

was able to save enough money to go back into university that particular year

and the rest is history. I have had an opportunity to do that and to provide for

my own children, like so many other people who are out there.

These were a few of the things that I saw that could have been reduced, that

could have been dealt with in the Budget and were not. Somebody else will get up

and say: Well, that is your opinion - and that is what is it. We come here to

the House and we come from different backgrounds, we come from different

settings, we come here with different values, and we see things differently. I

can only speak for the people who have sent me here for the last eighteen years,

five elections. To be honest with you, my municipal background goes back to

being elected, I think it was for the first time, in 1971. It is a long, long

time in giving your life to trying to help others. That is what it is about.

These particular people, Mr. Speaker, I think should have been given some help.

In fact, I was talking to a relative of a young graduate just graduating

within the next week from Memorial University as a nurse. She is not even

bothering to stay around. They are going to Alberta. I know, with the salaries

they offer our young people up there it is very, very challenging, but

nevertheless we need services and I am glad that many of our young people do

stay here in the Province to provide services to our seniors and people who need

them.

If we were to offer some of these students who are not eligible for student

loans and grants some incentive to stay in the Province, they probably would be

able to stay here. We need them, we need their expertise, we need their

dedication, we need their young families to settle here and to be able to

improve the quality of life that we have. We don't want to be a community or a

Province of seniors. I know it is a real challenge for us, but nevertheless that

is what we do.

The Minister of Transportation and Works also said - I wrote down a couple of

things while he was speaking - he said: I never had a bad meeting with a town

council. Neither have I. For two or three years I was Minister of Municipal

Affairs and we met a lo