VOL. 3 PRELIMINARY UNEDITED TRANSCRI?T HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PERIOD: 3:00 p.m. - 6:00 p.m. WEDNESDAY, MARCH 25, 1981 .. , NO. 17 .. , .. , " I .. ,

March 25, 1981 The House met at 3:00 P .31. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): Placentia West. :VIR. HOLLETT: Tape No. 620 SD - l Order, please! The hon. member for Burin - Mr. Speaker, I am sure all hon. members have noticed in today's paper the headline:'Burin's Hero'. MR. BARRY: Burin's what did it say? MR. HOLLETT: MR. BARRY: MR. HOLLETT: correction, Mr. Minister. Hero. 'Heroine' it should be. It-should be.

Thank you for the But having been involved in the original reporting of this incident and knowing the family quite well, especially Captain Earl Foote, her father, and her mother Dorothy, and the pride that the people in that region and I am sure all of Newfoundland have in this deed where Jessie was given full credit for saving the life of one of her schoolmates from drowning in Collins Pond last January, I would ask, Mr.

Speaker, with the approval of all members of the House, if you would write a letter of congratulations to Jessie which she would have, of course, long before she receives her aware for bravery from the Lieutenant-Governor later on this year. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: M..."q. MARSHALL~ MR. SPEAKER: in favour 'Aye'? SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: Hear, hear. Is it agreed? The hon. the President of the Council. Yes, Mr. Speaker. You have heard the motion. Those Aye. Contrary 'Nay'? Carried. r7ss .. , .., . 'I '1

March 25, 1981 Tape No. 620 so - 2 :t-!R. SPEAKER (Sirruns) : The past couple of days there have been a number of points of order, etc., raised in which I reserved rulings until I have had an opportunity to check with Hansard and the like, and I would like to deal with some of those at the present time. With respect to the point of order raised by the hon. the Leader of the Opposition (Mr.

Stirling) yesterday arising out of a response to a question that he asked of the hon. the Premier on which I did reserve a ruling, I have since had the chance to check Hansard and find that the hon. the Leader of the Opposition's point of order was, "that tbe hon. the Premier was imputing motives and attempting to mislead". The words used by the han. the Premier were, "So first of all let it be recorded that the Leader of the Opposition is opposed to hydro de•relopments in Labrador".

It is my opinion that this is not a imputation of motives but a difference of opinion; therefore in this instance there is no point of order. There was a subsequer.t point of order raised which I will deal with when the han. the Leader of the Opposition is in the House. Also, with respect to the point of privilege raised on Monday by the hon. the member for \Vindsor - Buchans (Mr. Flight), the statement of the hon. Minister of Mines and Energy (Mr.

Barry) "scare tactics" to which the hon. member objects is not of a sufficiently serious nature tc take precedence as a matter of privilege over all other business of the House. As is stated in Beauchesne, 5th Edition, paragraph 17 at page 11, 'A question of privilege ought rarely to come up.' 1766 "I

~larch 25, 1981 Tape No. 621 R?-. - 1 :•!R. SPEAKER (Simms): A genuine question of privilege is a most serious matter and should be taken seriously by the House. This matter in my opinion falls rather into the realm of unparliamentary language at the 1~ast, or an imputation of unworthy motives at the most. It should therefore have been raised as a point of order at the time that it was uttered. Beauchesne, Pifth Edition, Para- graph 323 (1) and (2). I therefore have to rule that there is not prima facie case of privilege.

I will, however, point out that the connotation of an expression used in the House depends to a great extent on the tone, manner, et cetera, of the person speaking - Beauchesne, Paragraph 324, pages 114 and 115 - and that what is acceptable at one time may not be at another. Having had an opportunity to review Hansard, I find that this expression in the cir- cumstances prevailing at the time it was used could be con- strued as offensive and unworthy of the ~ouse. I •.vou1d therefore ask the hon. Minister of Mines and Energy to withdraw his remarks in the interest of decorum. i;!R. L. BARRY: No problem at all, Mr.

Speaker. My interest is in making sure that the people of Buchans are properly informed, that no ga~es are played with this very serious matter and I unequivocally withdraw any im - putations of motive, and ! just caution all members to be ware of toying with people's lives when they are in such a serious situation as the people of Buchans are. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The hon. minister has withdraw~.

Also yesterday, han. members will recall that I reserved my decision on a point of order raised during Question Pericd regarding certain words spoken by the han. member for LaPoile (r.tr.Neary). ·I - ~ ~ I I 0 . .. , ''I ., ... ''I ..,

March 25, 1981 Tape No. 621 RA - 2 !'lR. SPEAKER (Simms): In his question to the hon. Minister of Transportation (Mr. Brett) the hon. member stated,' I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Transportation,' et cetera,' I asked the minister about the cost and the information in connect­ ion with the low-bed! it went on to say,'He did not know the cost on March 19 even though he had written a cheque,and the documents that were tabled ,Mr.

Speaker, I suspect are fake documents.' The offending words was in this context are fake documents, ~he oxford dic~ionary defines fake as'a trick, invention, a faked or cooked report, to tamper with for the purpose of deception, to steal.' I quote•from Beauchesne at page 104, Para- graph 319. 'In the House of Commons, a member will not be permitted by the Speaker to indulge in any reflections on the House itself or to impute to any member unworthy motives for their actions in a particular case.' Page 114 ' Paragr.aph 322~ 'It has been formerly ruled by Speakers that a statement by a member respecting himself and particularly within his own knowledge must be accepted.

But it is not unparliamentary tanperately to critize statements made by a mer:~aer as being contrary to the facts 1 but no imputation of intentional fal3ehood is permissible. On rear occasions this may result in the House having to accept two contradictorY accounts of the same inc'ident .' Ar:d Paragraph 324, (l) :'It is impossible to lay do·.vn any specific rules in regard to injurious reflections uttered in debate against particular members or to declare beforffiand what expressions are or are not 1768 .. .. , ''I ''! .. ,

i'1arch 25, 1981 Tape No. 622 D\•i - 1 Y!R. SPEAKE~ (Simms): contrary to order. ~uch depe~ds on the tone, manner and intention of the person speaking. Taken ~n the context in which the words 1.11ere spoken, ha•7ing had a chance to review them in Hansard,to say that the Minister of Transportat~on (Mr. Brett) has presented fake documents is to say that he has deceived this House.

It is a connotation of deception~ what one cannot say directlv cannot be implied. ~hile the word could be used to cast doubt on the authenticity of a documen~ per se 1 this case it seems to me it was used in connection with a ques­ tion to which it acdeo rothing other than to qualify it so as ~o suggest some sort of tampering. As well there is a connotation of decePtion that is implied in the word 'fake'.

The word ·~ake' imolies there was an imputation of intentional falshood.There­ fore I would rule that in the context in which the words were spoken,the remarks are unparliamentary and I would ask the he~. member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) to withdraw the remarks. MR. S. NEARY: 111R. SPEAKER: I wi thdrat<l, i'lr. Speaker. The hon. member .,,i tndraws. STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! P~~MIER PECKFORD: In the Throne Soeech, Mr.

Speaker, of Wednesday, February 25, 1981 the following statement was made on page 13, 'New regulations will be introduced to aovern the conduct of civil servants. These regulations will be im­ plemented under the Civil Service Act and will soecify conflict of interest situation covering inves~~ents and private assets , outside employment, public service appoint~ents and ~remotions, dealings with relatives and acceptance of gifts and benefits.

Restrictions will also ~e ?laced on the holdi~g of shares and specific classes of companies and that there would also ~e regulations, guidelines governing the conduct of ministers: Page 13 of the Throne Speech on February 25th. 1769 . . .. , ''I .. , ..,

11arch 25, 1981 Tape No. 622 DW - 2 ~RE~IER PECKFORD: I am pleased today, ~~- Speaker, to make a specific announcement regarding that committment in the Throne Speech. With respect to ministers,! will be introducing in this session of the House of Assembly an amendment to the Conflict Of Interest Act empowering me as Premier to issue guidelines to govern the conduct of ministers in their official duties. Cabinet has also recently reviewed and approved in principle draft regulations governing the conduct of civil servants.

Today I have arranged for copies of these draft regulations to be hand delivered to NAPE, CUPE and the New­ foundland Association of Management Employees soliciting their comments and recommendations. I. look forward to meaningful input and I trust that these employee associations will vie~o.• this ki -nd of consultation with favour. In the performance of their duties, ministers and civil servants are continuously aware of informa­ tion which is not generally made available to the public at large.

In instances where they are exposed to highly confidential infor­ rnation,opportunities exist for significant a~in.I therefore view regulations and guidelines as highly desirable and necessarv to ensure that ministers and officials alike perform in a highly ethical manner and are perceived by the general public in the same light. As I indicated earlier,I am pro­ posing a specific set of guidelines to govern the conduct of ministers which I will personally enforce. With respect to civil servants,I plan to promulgate regulations under the Conflict Jf Interest Act, 1973.

An amendment to the Conflict Of Interest Act will be necessary in both instances, and these will be presented 1770 •• ... .. .. ,

March 25, 1981 Tape No. 623 NM - 1 P3LMIER PECKFORD: to the House of Assembly for approval in the very near future. I now wish to briefl y highlight the scope and conten~s of the proposed guidelines and regulations. The regulations and guidelines will represent the primary instrument for use by Cabinet ministers and officials in determining acceptable standards of conduct in the performance of official duties.

The regulations and guidelines will involve an honour system placing the onus on ministers and officials to make disclosure of potential conflict of interest . situations. lVith respect to ministers , I shall assume full and final responsibility for determining whether in fact a conflict of interest situation exists and I will take appropriate disciplinary action where appropriate. In the case of civil servants,Cabinet will assume that responsibility.

Conflict of interest situations outlined in the regulations and guidelines cover investments and management of private assets, non- financial interests, outside employment, improper influence in public service appointments and promotion, dealing with relatives and acceptance of gifts and benefits. Restrictions will be placed upon ministers and civil servants in the trading and o~ner- ship of common shares in companies engaged in exploration for oil and gas in areas regulated under the Newfoundland and Labrador Petroleum Regulations, 1977, in mining exploration or in land speculation.

Ministers,or companies in which ministers have an interest 1 cannot qualify for government grants, loans, leases or Crown land without my expressed prior approval . In the case of civil servants 1 decisions on these matters •r~ill rest '"ith t:he Cabinet. 1 ., 7 A . I I ''1 "I .,

~larch 25, 1981 Tape No. 623 NM PREMIER PECKFORD: Restrictions will be placed upon outside employment of ministers and officials. Ministers will be required to inform me of all applications for employ­ ment or offers of employment which conflict with their official duties. In the case of civil servants 1 this must be brought to the attention of Cabinet. 2 Restrictions will be placed upon former public servants from receiving government contracts, grants, loans, and other forms of financial assistance and leases MR. NEARY: What about former premiers?

PREMIER PECKFORD: ~ for commercial purposes, within one year after cessation of employment witho~t the approval of Cabinet. I make this announcement toda? ~o reiterate my administration's pledge to restore honesty and in­ tegrity to government. I view this issue as being of vital im­ portance. Public perception of the conduct and performance of ministers and civil servants alike is an important issue and these steps are taken to conform with the commitment given a little over a month ago with the express purpose to be seen and recognized as adhering to highly ethical standards of behaviour. SOME HON.

MEMBERS : Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER (Si~ms): The hon. member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, those are pious words just issued by the hon. the Premier. It seems that every time that one of his ministers gets in trouble that he comes in with a flowery statement telling the people of this Province all the things he is going to do. Now we will catch another minister tomorrow or the next day with his fingers in the cookie jar and then we will have another Ministerial Statement. Mr.

Speaker, there are scme good points in the statement just read by the hon. gentleman,but the 1772 ''I ''I .., .. ,

March 23, 1981 Tape No . 623 NM - 3 lffi. ~~~Y : hon . gentleman did noc incicace, Mr . Speaker, the necessity !:or bringing in t hese regulations, by being forced to make this statement in the House . Is it because of all the skulduggery that ha s gone on in ~i s Pro vinc e in the last cen year s? ~vill the regulations be retro-active , td.r. Speaker? Will all the informati on t..~at is being used by a former Premier of t..<tis Province 1773 ~ .. .•• 1 ' P

March 25,1981 Tape No. 624 AH-1 MR. NEARY: former Premier of this Province and former ministers and former civil servants, will they come under these regulations? It seems to me, Mr. Speaker, that the hon. gentleman is locking the barn door after the horse is stolen. ORAL QUESTIONS MR.SPEAKER(Simms): The hen. member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, unfortunately the Hinister of Transportation (Mr.Brett) who motivated this statement just read by the Premier is not in his seat toda~ so I am going to find out now how honest the hon. Premier is and what kind of a government of integrity that he is going to run.

When the hen. Premier SQoke to the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Brett) about the hiring or the alleged hiring of a l<=M-bed to bring up his cabin cruiser fran Hal:OOur Breton, what transpired? What took place between the hon.gentleman and the Minister of Transportation (Mr.Brett)? Did the hon. Premier take the Minister of Transportation's word that he had paid for that work that was done by the Department of Transportation float and the pickup truck and all the officials that were involved?

Did the hon. gentleman,when he discussed this with the Minister of Transportation,merely take his word that the bill had been paid? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, two things; the reason for the statement is that this government intends to keep its commitments that it made in the Throne Speech , which was -long before there was any question or thought of any minister indicating any wrongdoing that the hon. member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) would like to.

On page 1 of the Throne Speech on February 25th,number one item and priority of this government is an honest and official 1774 'I .., .. , .. ,

March 25,1981 Tape No. 624 AH-2 PREMIER PECKFORD: ?Olitical system . I quoted from page 13 and therefore, Mr. Speaker, I take exception to the comments that the member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) when he talks about the motivation for this kind of statement and it was passed and deliberated in Cabinet for the last three or four weeks. That is number one,Mr. Speaker. Let us get that straight. Number two is the member for LaPoile (Mr.Neary) notices the absence of the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Brett). Yes, the Minister of Transportation is not in the House today,Mr. Speaker.We can all see that,I am sure.

He is on the government's business. He is on his way to Labrador to attend a conference which he committed to attend three or four weeks ago. I think it is a development association meeting in Southern Labrador, in Marys Harbour , Labrador. Mr. Speaker as it relates to the incident that the member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) wants to raise again,let me say that I have spoken to the Minister of Transportation (~~- Brett) on the matter, as I have indicated before, and the Minister of Transportation has paid for the services rendered to him at the time and that is where the matter rests.

The Minister of Transportation has paid in full. AN HON.MEMBER: (Inaudible) PREMIER PECKFORD : No, he has paid in full. And I am persuaded to that point of view,and not only persuaded I know it to be a fact. And when the ~!inister of Transportation (Mr. Brett) returns to the House no doubt he will then have the additional doclli~entation which was not available to him because it was in the mails to his bank. So that is the situation on it,Hr. Speaker. 1 7 7 s ''I

March 25, 1981 Tape No. 625 EL - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: if the member for LaPoile (S. Neary) wants to keep referring to the Minister of Trans­ portation(C.Brett) about having his finger in the cookie jar or whatever, if he wants to try to somehow smear this admin­ istration or the Minister of Transportation, he can go right ahead, Mr. Speaker. This administration stands on its record, stands on the kinds of reforms that we are bringing in, The member for LaPoile can do all he likes. The people of Newfoundland will decide that in due course as they did be­ fore. SOME HON. ~.BERS: MR. NEARY: MR.

SPEAKER (Si~~s) : for LaPoile. Hear, hear! A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary, the hon. member MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, we have seen the sincerity and the honesty of this government in connection with the former Minister of Transportation, who is now the Minister of Fisheries (J. Morgan), when he was condemmed for breaking the Public Tendering Act in this Prov­ ince by a unanimous recommendation of the Public Accounts Comm­ ittee. We saw how the Premier dealt with that and now we see how the Premier is dealing with this latest one.

The information the Premier just gave the House is contrary to the facts.And I am going to ask the hon. gentleman a straight question and I expect to get a straight answer: When the hon. gentleman discussed this matter with his Minister of Transportation,did he ask for a bill and did he ask to see the receipt? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, I know that the Min- ister of Transportation paid for the services in question before ' 1776 .. , .. , .. ,1 .. ,

~larch 2 5 , 19 81 PREMIER PECKFORD: this hon. House. MR.NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (Sirnro.s) : for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Tape No. 625 EL - 2 this matter became an issue in A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary, the hon. member Mr. Speaker, I am asking the hon. gentleman to produce the evidence that the bill was paid two days before the matter was raised in this House, to produce the receipt. My understanding of the way the public service op­ erates, Mr. Speaker, in relation to the Newfoundland Exchequer rlCcount is that the moment the bill is paid a receipt has to be issued.

The Auditor General insists that the moment cash is received or a cheque is received or a money order is re­ ceived, a receipt has to be issued immediately,and that if it cannot be issued that day, it has to be issued the first thing the next day. Now where is the receipt? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREHIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, if the hon. the member for LaPoile, you know, has some information,then let him pre­ sent it outside this House or wherever, not use this House. Let him present it.

When the Minister of Transportation returns to this House,he will produce the additional documentation that the member for LaPoile (S. Neary) is looking for. He will pro­ duce the cheque and all the rest of it. There is nothing dis­ honest, there is nothing underhanded about this transaction at all. It is totally aboveboard, honest arid straight . The member =or LaPoile hates to hear it, Mr. Speaker, he hates to hear it but that is the truth of the matter and these are the facts . And that is where it stands, Mr. Speaker. MR.NEARY: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. 1777 ., .,

March 25, 1981 Tape No. 626 SD - l MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : for LaPoile. Supplementary, the hon. member MR. NEARY: Incidentally, I might just comment on what the hon. gentleman said there about the House; this is where we _get our information - MR. HANCOCK: Hear, hear. MR. NEARY: - in this House 1 not outside the House. And if the hon. qentleman is not prepared to allow this matter to be scrutinized by the Opposition, scrutinized by the Justice Department or by the Public Accounts Committee then we can only assume there is some kind of a cover-up. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. HR.

NEARY: So I am going to ask the hon. gentleman if he will, as he did in the case of Devine Advertising and in the case of McConnell Advertising, will the hon. gentleman bring in a motion to have this matter referred to the Public Accounts Commitee at as early a date as possible to have it scrutinized to see if in fact the House is getting the correct information and the people of this Province are getting the correct information? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, all the information on this matter will be laid on the table of this ~ouse, have no doubt about.that.

The member for Lapoile need not think that this government or me as Premier is going to hide one iota of information, that it will all be put on the table of this House. And the next time the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Brett) stands in his place, he will do just that. And it can be scrutinized by the member for LaPoile, it can be scrutinized by the member for Windsor - Bucha~s (Mr. Flight), it can be scrutinized by the press, it can be scrutinized by the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. This was a honest 1778 .. , .., ,,, .. ,

~larch 25, 1981 Tape No. 626 SD - 2 PREMIER PECKFORD: and straight transaction; the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Brett) got involved in moving his boat from Harbour Breton, he paid in full for the services that were rendered 1 and there is absolutely no wrong­ doing. And when the Minister of Transportation returns he will produce that additional evidence, and whoever wants to scrutinize it can scrutinize it.

But the fact of the matter is is that right now the Minister of Transportation is not here, that the cheque that paid for this thing is on its way to the bank - I think it is in Clarenville, his bank in Clarenville -and when t~at is completed the minister will produce the documents to demonstrate that. MR. NEARY: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : Supplementary, the han. member for LaPoile MR. NEARY: Seems to me, Mr. Speaker, that the hon. Premier does not understand the procedure of paying bills to the Newfoundland government.

When a bill is paid 1 whether it is by cheque, by money order or by cash,a receipt is issued immediately. Where is the receipt, that is what we are saying. That is the key to the whole thing. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker,if you want to get specific about the receipt, the Minister of Transportation has the receipt. MR. ~<EARY: PREHIER PECKFORD: MR. NEARY: there is no receipt there. MR. SPEAKER: PREMIER PECKFORD: He does not have a receipt. He does so have the receipt. He tabled all the documents and Order, please!

He has the receipt and he will have the cheque when it is returned from the bank and then it will be tabled in this hon. House. 1 7 7 9 .. , .,, ' I .I, ,,,

.'!arc!'! 25, 1981 '!'~pe No . 626 SD - 3 :-!.R . L • TnONS : And i: he doe s ~oc? :·!R. NE.;\RY : .~ d , Mr . Speaker - !?~~!IER PE:C!<FORD : :ie will. ~L~ . 1':10~15 : r: !'le does not? ?RE:.'1IER !?EC!GORD : ~e will. ~ o SPEAK.c.""""R ( S i:nms ) : Orcer, please! MR . NEARY : Supplemem:ary , 1·lr o Speaker . !ofR . SPEAKER : Suppleme .n cary, the hon . me :n.ber :or :.a?oile o ~ . ~.<loRY : ~o doubc the hor. . the Prem~e r has seen the receipt because ~~e hon . Premier took to the television, told the people of this Province the bill had been paid , told the House th e bill hac been paid.

No doubt the hon . ;en tleman saw che receipt and ,i: ~e did, would he now tell the Hoc se if ~:hat receipt ·,;as dated on or before .'!arch 19th? Nas it dated before ~arch 19th or was it dated after March 19th? It is the receipt I am talking ab ou t; a cheque do es not count because you can put whacever date you like on a cheGUe o 1780 ,, •tt 'II '!I .. , ''1 1.

.. , 1V[arch 25, 1981 Tape cJo. 627 m~ - 1 ~R. S . C<El>.RY: Ke are talking about the recei?t . ~R. SPEAKER (Si~~s): The ~on. the Premier . PREMIER PECKFORD: ~!r. Speaker, the "linister of Trans- portation C~r. Brett) is not i:-~ his seat and ;.;hen he is in his seat he will make a full statement and produce the rest cf the .. , doc~~entation. And the only reason why it has not been produced is because the checrue is the mail to his bank and as soon as it comes in he will be producing that and the receipt and the whole matter then will be cleared up 1vi th the '<!inister of Transoorta- tion here in his hon.

House. ~R. S. NEARY: A supplementarv, ~r. Speaker. "!R. SPEAKER : A supplementary, the hon. member for LaPoile. . .. MR. S. NEARY: ~r. Speaker, i~ the ~ecei?t the Premier is talkinq about - acd we want to see that receipt - if that receipt is dated after ~arch 19th.,what will the Premier say about it then? Will he then say the bill was ?aid before ~arch 19th.? MR. SPEP..KER: Order, olease! Or~er, please! That is a hypothetical ~uestion. The hon. the ?remier. ''I PRE!-'!IER PECKFORD: Yes .. I want to ans=·er it thcuqh, Mr. Soeaker, if you do not mind. -"'R. SPEAKER: Agreed. The hon. the ?remier.

PREMIER PECKFORD: Let me just indicate to the hon. member for LaPcile (~r. Neary) that he can create and concoct •t~hat he likes in his Ow'Tl little, tid:;,d-=vious mind. I am tellinq t~e hen. member for LaPoile that when t~e ~~inister of Trans90rta- tion returns to his seat he will explain in ~ull and oroduce the documents contained therein that are relevant to this issue. MR. S. NE.i'I.R.Y: ~'Tell, ,,,;e -:...ril l be 3.nxiou.sly awaiting for the hon. minister. .. -: " I j ~

!1arch 2 5 , 19 81 ~I .R. L. THOMS : ~R. SPEAKER (Simms) : MR. S. NEARY: Speaker. 111R. L. THOMS: MR. SPEAKER: Tape No. 627 DW - 2 r-1r. S;?eaker. The hon. member for Grand Bank. One final supplementary, Mr. I yield, Mr. Speaker. The hon. member for Grand Bank (Mr. Thoms) wishes to yield to the hon. member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) . MR. S. NEARY: We have no choice now but to wait for these documents and we will be waiting in wild anticipation. I want to ask the hon. gentleman if he asked the Minister of Transoortation (Mr.

Brett) about the statement he made in this House and the statement he made outside of this House that he tried to get some other company, he tried to get a private company to move this yacht before he used government facilities. Did the hon. gentleman cross­ examine the Minister of Trans?ortation on that?

And if so, would the hon. the Premier tell us if it is a fact that when the Minister of Transportation made a statement that he could not get a flatbed to go down to Harbour Breton to bring up his yacht,that while this flatbed was gone from the Depart­ ment of Transportation,the Department of Transportation in Grand Falls had to hire a flatbed themselves 1 because their's was gone to Harbour Breton to get the boat 1to send a piece of equipment to Western Newfoundland? Now how could they get a flatbed to do that when the minister could not find a flat­ bed himself to go down to Harbour Breton? MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, I know nothing of whethe~ the Grand Falls district office of the Department of Transportation had to hire another flatbed at the time. Whether they had accesss to more n~T.es in the Grand Palls area where a flatbed was available than the Minister of Transporation, all I know is that the Minister of . Transportation did contact two 1782 . ...

March 25 , 1981 Tape No . 627 Df."i - 3 ?aF.~!~R PECKFORD: comoanies in his area ~o get the flatbed ir. quest: ion and was u:tab!e to do it: . A:"'!d it \vas then a:ter that he had - ~tR . S . NEARY : ?REl-1IE.:t ?ECK.rooRD : We have informat:ion to the cont:ary. C~ I speak without bei~g ir.ter - rupted, :"!r . ~peaker? I do not interr.:pt the me!llber :or La?oile (:.lr. Neary) when he is asking the quest:ion . :'-I.R . S • NEARY : Give us the na~es of (inaudible ) . MR. SPEAKER (Simms): Order , ?lease ! PRF.:-1IER PECKFORD : Can ! respond? ~Y I have the same courtes-..r extended to me as I extend to you?

Can I - MR. S. :q::P,RY: MR . SPF.AKER : ~!R . S • :-lEA ~y : MI~ . SPEAi<ER : restrain himself . Do not try t:o cover up. Order, please ! The hon. the Premier. Sincerely and hor.esc!y, r.o~ . Order, !)lease! I must ask the hon . member co He has asked the question and presumably he '.Ya::!~S the answer. It :.s di::icu!t co give ;·;her. you are gettin g interru!)tions . The hon . the Premier . PREMIER PECKFORO : Mr . S9eaker, I know that the ~inister of Transportation (Mr . Srett) tried v:liantly to get ?rivate contractors at the time . 1783 ';1 ·'' .., ·''

March 25, 1981 Tape No. 628 EL - 1 PREMIER PECXFORD: Now, whether he had access to information as to the number of companies and that there was a company somewhere in the Grand Falls area that had a flatbed that he did not know about, I do not know that. All I know is that the Minister of Transportation (C. Brett) tried to get a flatbed from private contractors before he took the decision to ask and request the Department of Transportation to provide the ne­ cessary service. I know that to be true. I do not know that the - I did not know that the Grand Falls office had to hire another flatbed.

Therefore why the Minister of Transportation never hired that same flatbed- obviously he does not have access to the names of people who have flatbeds all around Central and Eastern Newfoundland. But he did try in his own area to access a flatbed before going to the Department of Transportation. HR. THOMS: MR. SPEAKER (Simms): for Grand Bank. MR. THOMS: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary, the hon. member Mr.

Speaker, in connection with this matter, I would like to direct it to the hen. the Premier, there is certainly a great deal of uncertainty and doubt,and some people might even say suspicion,in connection with this whole situation. It may be completely honest, straightforward as the Premier has said.But in view of this, would the Premier not- you see,one of the problems with the tabling of document­ ation, particularly the kind of documentation that we have had tabled here,is that it is in longhand, it is from certain individuals in the Department of Transportation and Commun­ ications.

But in view of the uncertainty and the doubt and 1 7 B 4 .. , •. , ''I .. ,

March 25, 1981 . Tape NO. 628 E:G - 2 MR. THOMS: the type of documentation that is being presented, would the Premier not consider requesting the Public Accounts Committee to look into the matter? And I feel if they come up with a clean bill of health on this matter then I think it will be accepted by everybody. MR. SPEAKER (Simms ) : The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, I understand the suspicion and it is unfortunate too and some of the words are unfortunate. I do not think it is unfortunate that the Opp­ osition raise the matter.

I think that is legitimate and, you know, I am glad they did ra_ise the issue - no problems there with that.But I think it is unfortunate,some of the words. I appreciate the tone in which the hon. member asked a question because I think he is sincere in his motivation and his intent. The problem here, you are dealing with an individual and his character and his career and all the rest of it,and I am speaking of the Minister of Transportation (C.Brett) 1 and unfortunately it is sort of, in the last number of days, it has sort of gotten out of whack.

I have spoken to the Minister of Transportation before he left to take off from St. John's this morning about it again because in the same way I suppose as a lot of members of this House, there are suspicions raised. And when you see reports in the paper,as there have been,quoting the word'fake'and so on and alleging fake documents and so on, it does tend to hurt the reputation and character of the Minister of Transportation unnecessarily.

And one of the thing you had going through this is that the cheque was in the mail and he felt helpless to be able to produce anything when he could not produce the cheque at the time when he produced the rest of the documentents. 1785 .. , .. , ' 'I .

11arch 25, 1981 Tape No. 628 EL - 3 .. , PREMIER PECKFORD: So it is unfortunate. I think what we should fo at this point in - MR. NEARY: (Inaudible) cheque. ''I .. , ''I .. , 1 7 B 6 ''I

March 25, 1981, Tape 629, Page 1 -- apb PREMIER PECKFORD: I think what we should do at this point in time, Mr. Speaker, is wait until the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Brett) returns to the House. I have asked him to go through the w)1ole thing in

chapter and verse then for the House, and to produce the additional information; and at that time, after that is done, after the Minister of Transportation makes those statements and stands by those statements, to decide from there whether in fact additional enquiry is necessary. I think that would be the proper approach.

I think it is unfortunate that it has taken the kind of dimension it has taken, not in the sense the question should not have been asked but we have to be careful in asking the questions and giving the answers, because we are talking about a person and his character and his career and, therefore, I tread carefully on it. I have obviously sat down with the minister of Transportation and gone through it in great detail; to do otherwise would be shrinking my responsibilities and obligations as Premier of the Province responsible for these things and for the ministers who serve in the Cabinet.

So I think at this point in time it would be best to wait until the Minister of Transportation is back in the House, can make the full statement, with t "he other documentation, and then take it from there. But I do appreciate the hon. member's question and we must ensure that justice is not only done but is seen to be done. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER(Simms): the member for LaPoile. A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary. The han. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, we are making a little bit of headway now, a little bit of progress.

When the han. the Premier discussed this matter with the Minister 1787 .. , . ... ,,, .., ' 'I

March 25, 1981, Tape 629, Page 2 -- apb MR. NEARY: of Transportation,did the hon. the Premier ask to see the documentation, to see the bills that were presented to the Minister of Transportation, and to see the receipts? Beqause these are the obvious questions to ask the minister.

Because in the documentation that was laid on the table of the House that I refered to, and it was ruled out of order, as a fake document, all we have resembling a bill is an intradepartmental memorandum from a gentleman by the name of Barry, who we are told is the minister's executive assistant - from Barry to minister - and a list of the expenses involved. That is .not a bill. Did the hon. gentleman ask to see the bill and see the receipt when he talked to the Minister of Transportation? MR. SPEAKER(Simms): PREMIER PECKFORD: The hon. the Premier. Mr.

Speaker, I am not going to get into specifics on that issue right now. I am going to wait until the Minister of Transportation comes back into the House and makes his full statement with the additional documentation before getting into the specifics of it. I am very, very sorry that the member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) still sees fit to use the word 'fake' in a way in which he tries to then have himself excused from the rules of the House that have already been adjudicated upon by the Speaker. MR. NEARY:· Mr. Speaker, a final supplementary - MR. SPEAKER(Simms): The hon.· the member for LaPoile. MR.

NEARY: A final supplementary. - on this particular matter. I want to come back to the receipt again, Mr. Speaker, and I want to try to establish a fact, a point in this House, in this discussion that is taking place now. W~ll the hon. gentleman indicate to the House whether or not he has seen a receipt? If he has seen a receipt, was the receipt dated 1788 .. , . .

... ~ar=h 25, 1981, ~ape 629, Page 3 -- apb ~·s .. :rE-~.?~ Y: after ~arch 19th? And if ~e has not seen a receipt, if the receipt shows that it was issued from the Newfoundland Exchequer Account from the P·.lblic ·r:::easury, from the Department of Finance after .. , March 19th., will the Premier then undertake to have a thorough investigation into this matter? Because obviously ''J ' J ''I I - ..-

March 25, 1981 Tape No. 630 NM - 1 MR. NEARY: the bill was not paid before March 19th., and the minister had no intention of paying it. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, how can you respond to that kind of a question,•and the minister had no intention of paying i~? And then to go on, innuendo and so on. I refuse to answer that question, Mr. Speaker, primarily because the way it was framed and the way it was asked which implies right from the start that there is wrongdoing and I do not intend to answer it. I really do not. MR.

NEARY: there is all the sincerity and integrity for you. MR. SPEAKER: MR. LUSH: The hon. member for Terra Nova. Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the Minister of Labour and Manpower (Mr. Dinn) a question related to the strike by workers at the College of Trades and Technology. And I wonder if the minister can indicate to members whether he has taken any steps recently or whether any steps have been taken by theunion to resolve this long strike at the College of Trades and Technology: MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Labour and Manpower. MR. DINN: Mr.

Speaker, since the last time I spoke in this Ho~se I was in contact with people on both sides and the answer to the specific question as to whether there has been any change in negotiations, there has been no change in either side with respect to offers or changes inpositions. MR. LUSH: A supplementary. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. member for Terra Nova. MR. LUSH: Mr.

Speaker, the question was not whether there were any changes; the question was specifically whether the minister has himself made any moves in an attempt to get both sides back to the bargaining table or whether the 1790 ., .., .., .. , .. ,

March 25, 1981 Tape No. 630 NM - 2 MR. LUSH: union has made any moves to indicate their willingness to get back to the bargaining table. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): and Manpower. The hon. Minister of Labour MR. DINN: Mr. Speaker, the answer to the first half of the question is yes. The answer to the second half of the question is no. MR. LUSH: A supplementary. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary. The hon. member for Terra Nova. MR. LUSH: I take it that the minister is indicating that he has made some moves.

Has the minister re­ ceived any correspondence from the officials of NAPE in recent days indicating their position in the whole matter? MR. SPEAKER: Manpower. ~.R. DINN: The hon. Minister of Labour and Mr.

Speaker, the hon. member may know that I went to Halifax for very important meetings on Sunday and Monday, arrived back in the Province yesterday after­ noon at approximately two thirty, or two forty-five, proceeded to the House of Assembly, and was in my office this morning, received a brief from the Railway Labourers Union and never got to clear off my desk;so it may very well be that there is some communication on the desk but I have not received it or have not noticed it in my basket as of yet. MR. LUSH: A supplementary. 1 7 91 •• ! .., ' 'I ..

l•larch 25,1981 Tape No. 631 AH-1 MR. SPEAKER (Simms): A supplementary. The hon. member for Terra Nova. MR.LUSH: Mr. Speaker,a couple of days ago while the minister was away from the House I asked the President of the ~reasury Board whether or not the union had indicated their wish to have a mediator to try and settle this strike. The President of Treasury Board indicated that he believed there was a request and he believed that it was rejected. Can the minister verify that? Can the minister indicate to thP- House whether or not NAPE did ask for a mediator? If so, and if they were rejected,why? MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Labour and Manpower. MR. DINN: Mr. Speaker,the hon. member should listen to what goes on in the House. He asked me a question of that nature, I believe, a week ago with respect to a mediator - it was one of the points on a very famous petition.

And the fact of the matter is that I did contact-or my officials, as I informed the hon. gentleman last week, my officials did contact the negotiators on behalf of NAPE and they talked about at that. time, I believe, as to whether they would accept a mediator's report and return to work 1 and the answer to the question and to the negotiations and to the conversations by the negotiators at that time was no and the issue was not proceeded with further. MR.LUSH: Mr. Speaker a supplementary. MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary. The hon. mew~er for Terra Nova. MR. LUSH: So, Mr.

Speaker, I take it then that the minister, he is willing to look into this 1792 .. , ''I .. , .. ,

i·!arch 25,1981 Tape No. 631 AH-2 MR . LUSH: procedure, that he is \>Tilling to use this process o! the collective bargaining un it or the collective bargaining process , I should say, of having a m edia~or? It looks like by the answ er he gave that the union rej ecte d that. Now, Mr. Speaker, I have di!ferent information but I will not pursue that at the moment .

My supplementary to tbe mini ster is , has the minister looked into the cost of both strike$ - that is the one at the Workers' Co~pensation boarc and the one at the College of Trades and Technology-in ~erms of what it is co stin g th e government now to pay extra wages to the amployees that are toJorking overtime and paying the cost of transportation, be cause I understand that there are transportation arrangements by driving these strike brea\ers to and :rom •,.;ork . Ha s the minister looked into th .at cost and is he willing to table ~~e details of that cost here in the House of Assembly? :OL~.

SPEAKER (Simm s): and Manpower . The hon. :'linister of Labour 1793 .. ,. ,., '1 ··:\

March 25, 1981 'l'ape No. 63 2 RA- l C.1R. J. DINN: ~'lr . Speaker, just to respond to the hon. member' s

preamble 1 the minister has neither rejected nor accepted requests for mediation. I informed the hon. member amthis House last week what the proced­ ure was. There is not provision in the legislation, the Public Service Collective Bar~aining Act,for mediation; mediat­ ion would have to be accepted or rejected by both sides at the bargaining table.

It is not up to me~ I am a con­ ciliator in this process, I sit basically in the middle of the table,and if there are changes of positions from either side and they are not provided for in the legis­ lation,then ~reasury Board and/or NAPE has to agree to a different process,one that is not in the Collective Bargaining Act right now. So, that is the answer to his

preamble and the answer to his question was no. :VIR. LUSH: A supplement Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: I indicated a final supple- mentary, assuming other members wanted to ask questions . But seeing none rising, the hon. member for Terra Nova. MR. T. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, the minister is indicating what I thought all along,that he is doing nothing. Well, Mr. Speaker, he mentions that the~e is no provision for a medi.a tor within the Public Service Collect­ ive Bargaining Act.

Well,I ask the minister how come that this measure was employed with a strike by the Waterford workers a couple of years ago and then come under the same Collective Bargaining Act? At that time a mediator was brought in from the mainland and now the r.1inister is saying that it cannot be done. So, will the minister answer why it was done in that particular case and why it cannot be done in this particular case ? It is his 1794 ., .. ,

March 25, 1981 MR. T. LUSH: MR. SPEAKER: (Simms): Manpower. MR. J. DINN: Tape No. 632 RA - 2 responsibility to look into it. The hon. Minister of Labour and Mr. Speaker, the hon. member in his

preamble indicated that the minister was doing nothing. I can assure him that if he checked with either side - the negotiating committe for the College of Trades and Tech­ nology, the Workers Compensation or Treasury Board-I think he will get confirmation that the minister has done everything within his power. As to his question as to why a mediator was brought in in the case of the Water­ ford Hospital a year or two ago 1 I was not minister at the time. !1R. LUSH: No. (Inaudible) . MR. J.

DINN: The minister at the time did not make that decision, it was a decision made by both sides to the collective bargaining process . MR. LUSH: HR. SPEAKER: for Terra Nova. MR. T. LUSH: A supplementar y. A supplementary. The hon. member Mr. Speaker, I am quite aware that the minister cannot make the recommendation ,but certainly it is the minister's responsibility to try and bring both sides together and make that kind of suggestion. Has the minister ever done that? Has the minister ever met with both sides to try and make this suggestion that they settle th~strike through mediation? 1795 .. , .. , .,

March 25, 1981, Tape 633, Page 1 -- apb M_~. SPL~KER{Simms]: Labour and Manpower. MR. DINN: The hon. the Minister of Mr. Speaker, I indicated last week, I indicated just previously in the Question Period,what I have done as Minister of Labour and Manpower to resolve this dispute. I' will continue my efforts, and, Mr. Speaker, I do not think - and I can assure the hon. member that there is nothing within the power of the Minister of Labour and Manpower that I have not done to conclude negotiations to get this strike ended. It is just at a stalemate now. MR. LUSH: Speaker. MR. SPEAI<ER: Terra Nova.

MR, LUSH: A supplementary, Mr. The hon. the member for Well, Mr. Speaker, if what the minister is saying, that there is nothing in his power he has not done, well, obviously, what he is saying is that if he were the minister during the time of the Waterford strike that it would never have been settled. So I am asking the minister to exercise the same powers that were exercised by the Minister of Manpower at that time,when we had this strike at the Waterford Hospital, and why cannot he do it? MR. SPEAI<ER: Labour and Manpower. MR. DINN: The hon. the Minister of Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is inaccurate in his

preamble again, totally inaccurate. I indicated to the hon. member last week, previously today in Question Period, with respect to the mediation in the case of the Waterford Hospital it was a matter at that time of agreement of both sides of the table. Right now we do not have agreement of both sides of the table to anything, we are at a stalemate 1 and I have done everything within my power to get resolution to this situation. 1796 " ., .,

March 25, 1981, Tape 633, Page 2 -- apb MR. DINN: I have not been able to, I have not been successful, but I will continue to try, Mr. Speaker. MR. LUSH: A final supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER(Simms): A final, final supplementary. The han. the member for Terra Nova. MR. LUSH: Well, Mr. Speaker, quite obviously, if the minister has done everything in his power, then he is certainly suggesting that the union have not done their part. So, Mr. Speaker, again it seems to me that - my information is that the union have asked for a mediator. Can the minister confirm that? Has the union asked for a mediator? MR.

SPEAKER: Labour and Manpower. MR. DINN: The han. the Minister of Mr. Speaker, I suggest the hon. member check Hansard. I gave an answer to that question a week ago. I gave an answer to that question not too long ago and, Mr. Speaker, I indicated to the hon. member, with respect to mediation, that my officials were in touch with the negotiating committee for NAPE and that they were and that they were talking about conditions of mediation at the time. The conditions for mediation at the time were turned down by NAPE and as such the proposal for mediation .was not proceeded with further. MR.

LUSH: On whose part? 1 A supplementary, Mr. Speaker.-MR. SPEAKER: Another suppla~entary. The hon. the member for Terra Nova. MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, I do not understand what the minister is saying, I really do not. ~~ rejected the mediation offer? Who rejected it? Did 1797 .. , .

Marc~ 25, 1981, Tape 633, Page 3 -- apb :.!R. LUSE: the union reject this? Can the minister be very specific? Did the union reject this step in the collective bargaining process? Is that what the minister is saying, that the union rejected the services of a mediator? Is that what he is saying? Please be precise. ~JR. SPEAKER (Simms) : Labour and Manpower. MR. DINN: The hon. the Minister of Mr. Speaker, I cannot help it if the hon. member does not understand the collective bargaining process.

You know, I think it is unfortunate that he as shadow to the Minister of Labour and Manpower would get up in this House and say that he does not understand it. I will try to explain it to the hon. gentleman sometime, if I have lots of time. It is quite an involved process. It is all in the Public Service Collective Bargaining Act. I indicated to the hon. member there is no provision for mediation, there is no power within the minister to provide mediation, that it requires both sides to the collective bargaining process - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh~ MR. SPEAKER: Order, please~ MR.

DINN: - to agree to mediation, and, Mr. Speaker, in this instance there h-as been no agreement on both sides to mediation in this case. MR. SPEAKER: The time for Oral Questions has expired. ru~SWERS TO QUESTIONS FOR WHICH NOTICE HAS BEEN GIVEN MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Justice. MR. OTTENHE IMER: Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the answer to question number 18 on the Order Paper of March 4th., by the han. the member for LaPoile, I believe. 1798 'I 't .., ••

,., ~rch 25, 1981, Tape 633, Page 4 -- apb ORDERS .OF THE '. DJI.:Y Mr. Speaker (Simms): Thi .s being Pri,vate Members• Day ,we are debating private member's motio .n number two. Debate on the amendment last day was adjourned by the hon. the member for ·Grand Bank (Mr. Thoms) 1 who has ,., \ about three minutes remaining, I believe. ,. ·'' ,. 1799

March 25, 1981 ~ffi. SPEAKER (Simms) : MR. THOMS: Tape No. 634 SD - 1 The hon. the member for Grand Bank. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I think it is pretty obvious now that I had forgotten that I adjourned the debate on this. We are discussing the resolution, are we not? !-iR. NARREN: MR. THOt1S: SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: Yes, coastal Labrador. In connection with the - Oh, oh. Order, please! If the hon. member will permit, I might give him an opportunity _to collect his thoughts and introduce a group in the gallery, if you would like.

On behalf of all hon. members, I would like to welcome to the gallery today seventeen to twenty girls from the First Marine Drive Pathfinders of the First Marine Drive Guides who are visiting the House of Assembly along with Mrs. Mary Brown 1 and they are from the district of St. John's East Extern. We hope they enjoy their afternoon. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: about three minutes. MR. THOMS: Hear, hear. I will still allow the hon. member Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. The resolution that we are debating, and presumably will continue to debate this afternoon and vote on this afternoon,is that,'This hon.

House urge the federal government to live up to its responsibiliti~s and sign the agreement - the Coastal Labrador agreement - at the first opportunity'. However, Mr. Speaker, the member for Torngat Mountains (_Mr. Warren) introduced an arnemdment to this resolution whereby he is urging not only AN HON. r<t.EMBER: Shame! M.l'l.. THOMS: - the man is completely fair. 7here is one thing you can say about my friend from Torngat 1800 . ''I ''I ''I ''I

~·!arch 25 .. 1981 1-1R. 'l'EOHS : completely fair. Ta9e No . 634 SD - ' Nountains {Mr . ''larren) , he is I \vould not have done it, I would hav-e been more poli ;::ical, ~r . Speaker . I ~•auld have cake!'l ou t: the federcJ. government and inserted !:he ;?rovinci alo government '=>ut , Mr . Speaker, not t:J.e member for Torng at: ~lountains. :vhat he wants is "'.:he amendment to read : ' That this House urg e the federal government and the pro •1incia l s-overnrneni:' . ~d , Mr .

Speaker, t:herein lie s the r ub: Has the provinc~al ~overnment: cone everything thai: it has to do co bring t:he agreement to fruition ? I ;vould suspect, ~!.I:. Spea .ker, anc I am not trying to exonerate th~ =ede=al ~overTh~ent completely, l:>ut I 1o~ould suspect that this particular agree.'!le!"lt :Jas not been signed , eva~ thou gh it is a very sener ou s agree~nt, it is a 90 / 10 - lve canno;: go back and look a~ it and talk about 50/50 o r 75/ 25 - as I understand it , it :.s a 90 / 10 agreement and I have no difficulty whatsoever, l·lr .

S;?eaker, in supporting and giving all due regard to the iac;: cha;: my hon . friend from Tcrngat ~oun~ai~s has s een fit ;:o l~av~ in the :ederal gove!: :'!ment in the arnendment so 7...'!.at it •..:il :::-eaa: ' T:te fecieral and. the provincial gov,a rr. me:'!t::3', '2'et o ff their rear ends, get 1'ff c!leir behinds, ge t o:= their cu ;:::;;; ana get the agreement signed Sor tha be nefit and : or the go od of all the people on the La~rador Coast . - have a 1 8 0 1 ~· ~· .. , ~n ·''

March 25, 1981 Tape No. 635 EL - 1 MR. THOMS: certain affinity with the people of Labrador. I worked in Labrador, I worked there for four Summers. I know what it is like, I know the frustrations, I have been to the Coast of Labrador. I have talked with the people on the Coast of Labrador and I know the frustrations they go through and I do not think there is anybody in this House who would not want but see that this agreement is signed as quickly as possible so that these people can get the bene­ fits of it.

And I see no reason why the amendment that was introduced and moved by the member for Torngat Mountains (G. Warren) cannot be supported by members on both sides of this hon. House. PR&~IER PECKFORD: MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : PREMIER PECKFORD: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker. The hon. the Premier. Mr. Spea~er, this perhaps is one of the most important Private Member's resolutions to come before this House this whole session 1 and I do not want to let this opportunity pass without saying a few words about the resolution and the amendment that has been put last week by one of the members of the Opposition.

Mr. Speaker, the resolution is clear. It comes from the member for Menihek (P.Walsh),who is very concerned about a particular issue in his own district in Western Labrador and that has to do with the Trans-Labrador Highway,but being a member from Labrador, who is concerned about all aspects of development in Labrador, this re- solution, as put by the member for Menihek, talks about~ 'WHEREAS the people of Labrador should enjoy the same standard of service as the island residents of the Province;and

WHEREAS better transportation and community services are 1802 . '1

March 25, 1981 Tape Noe. 635 EL - 2 PREMIER PECKFORD: neces -sary for the development of a vibrant Labrador society'and, Mr. Speaker, here is the operative part of the resolution and the one that obviously the members of the Opposition have somehow ignored,'and

WHEREAS the government of the Province has a proposal before the Federal Government on a coastal Labrador DREE agreement,' a proposal already before them, Mr. Speaker, and only - and has a proposal before them only after the widest public de­ bate on coastal Labrador before that proposal was put. It took, Mr.

Speaker, two or three years to prepare that pro­ posal to ensure that the Northern coast of Labrador, that the Central coast around Cartwright and in the Northwest River area and then the Southern part and the Straits of Labrador all had an opportunity through public hearin~s, sponsored, I think at the time by the Labrador Resources Advisory Council and involving the development associations in the area, in­ volving the Labrador Inuit Association and involving the Nas­ kaupi Montagnais Indian Association and all the rest of them, that this proposal was finalized by the government, by the Provincial Government and then put forward as a normal, re­ gular DREE agreement to the Federal Government.

And the other operative part of the resolution and "WHEREAS the government of the Province has a proposal before the Federal Government for a start on the T~ans Labrador Highway;and

WHEREAS the Province is ready to move on both of these matters

now THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that this hon. House urge the Federal Government.' The amendment talks about urges the Fed - eral Government and the Provincial Government. Now, Mr. Speaker, that would be an excellent 1803 .. ., ... j

~ March 25, 1981 Tape No. 636 NM - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: excellent amendment if in fact the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador had not done its homework, had not prepared a proposal on Coastal Labrador affairs for the federal government, had not prepared a pro- posal on the Tran?-Labrador Highway and had not submitted those proposals to the federal government. But as it stands now, Mr. Speaker - MR. THOMS: MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : MR. THOMS: A point of order . A point of order. Mr. Speaker, it is a lonely life but I do not believe we do have a quorum in the House.

PREMIER PECKFORD: There is only one on the opposite side of the House, Mr. Speaker, let it be recorded, and now there is none. MR. THOMS: There is none. MR. SPEAKER: There has been a quorum call . We do have a quorum. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, you know it is unfortunate that the member for Grand Bank (Mr. Thorns) would take this opportunity to call a quorum when he knew in his own mind that there were enough members in the confines of the Chamber to constitute a quorum and more particularly since a number of members of the Opposition were having meetings with Ministers of the Crown.

On the one hand they want to have a meeting and get the ear of a minister on some particular problem they have out in their constituency, meanwhile a colleague from the same side of the House then would call a quorum. So the Opposition want it both ways, they want both to be able to call a quor~rn whenever they like to try to embarrass the government, and then secondly they want the ministry to talk to them about problems they have in their constituency at the time when the quorum is called. So, I rnean,how can you operate a House of Assembly when that kind of operation is going on? 1804 .. , .. .. ,

March 25, 1981 Tape No. 636 NM - 2 PREMIER PECKFORD: Now, Mr. Speaker, what I was saying was that, number one,that this is a very, very im­ portant resolution because it is dealing with a large area of our Province which is very important to us for many, many reasons that we all know about. And secondly, that the amendment to the resolution that was put by the member for Menihek (Mr. Walsh) is really an irrelevant amendment and one that is not germaine to the whole situation as we find it now today. If, as I was saying, Mr.

Speaker, the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador and the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador had not prepared a proposal on Coastal Labrador, if the provincial government had not pre­ pared a proposal on the Trans-Labrador Highway, then of course that amendment urging the provincial government as well as the federal government to get on with the job of developing Labrador,they would have a case, they would have a very strong case. But such is not the facts, Mr. Speaker, such is not the facts. Now in Ottawa, in Moncton, at the DREE office here in St.

John's, throughout the whole federal system, bureaucratic system of the Department of Regional and Economic Expansion, there exists two proposals and have existed for a long while, two proposals, one dealing wiG~ the Coas~al Labrador agreement that has been prepared by the Province in consultation with the people of Coastal Labrador, and,secondly, there exists an agreement dealing with the first phase of the Trans-Labrador Highway, or a road from Labrador City to Churchill Falls. Those proposals are on the table in Ottawa, in Moncton, at the DREE office here in St.

John's,and have been negotiated besides - especially the Coastal Labrador Agreement - has been negotiated and ready for signing, and we have been ready for some time to do that. 1605 .. , ''I .. , ,,, .. ,

~!arch 25, 1981 Tape No. 636 NM - 3 PREHIER PEC..XFORD: Now on the Trans-Labrador Highway agreement, ·~otr . Speaker, on the secondary roads agreement, a component of ~•hich is the Trans-Labrador lii.ghway, we have just barely started , IVe submitted it last year and the Department of Regional and Economic Expansion, especially at the ministerial level and just below, have not even seen yet what has been negotiated because the DREE people have not b een eager - ~1R . NEJ\..RY : I will phone Ottawa and find out .

PRE}liER PEGK'FORD: -have not been eager to sit down and negotiate a roads agrea~ent of this sort, have not been eager at all to do it. As a matter of fact,we are in a b it, Mr . Speaker, and we will be making fairly definitive statements on this in the next week or t•.vo on the ;vhcle question of DREE's road because there sea~s to be in Ottawa today a difference af opinion as to \vhet.her in fact the federal government should continue to participate in regional economic expansion 1806 .•. . ,. ~ ·· ... ··! ,.,

"'larch 25,1981 Tape 637 Page 1. PREMIER PECKFORD: as is now practiced by that department. And I would strongly,and I have strongly urged the Minister of DREE as late as last Thursday to argue strongly in his Cabinet for the continuation of DREE. The problem is not DREE today, the problem is the amount of money that has been put into DREE to get on with signing these agreements,and it is not only true in Newfoundland it is true all across the nation.

It is accentuated in Newfoundland 1 it would seem,in recent times because how can one not be somewhat skeptical when you get one hundred million dollars eighty/twenty for the steel industry of Cape Breton Island at the same time as that same government has turned down funds for the syncrolift and has not signed the Coastal Labrador agreement 1nor has seriously sat down to negotiate the Trans-Labrador Highway or the first phase of the Trans-Labrador Highway,recognizing that it is going to take quite a few years to finish the p=oject?

At least we could start the first phrase now and over ten or fifteen years have a decent highway in Labrador called the Trans Labrador Highway linking up all the major centres. So, Mr. Speaker, the amendment, we cannot accept the amendment because we have done our homework on the particular items mentioned, the Coastal Labrador agreement and on the Trans-Labrador Highway,so therefore the onus is on the Canadian federal no; ernrnent to sign these agree ments, immediately sign the Coastal ~abrader and to serious ly negotiate now on the secondary roads agreement that has not even been started.

So we want to get on Mr. Speake= and to get these things started. Now the other thing is it comes down to a question of the sharing of the wealth of the nation,and we say,and we think we ha ve genuine reasons for doing so, that given the finances of this Pro vince , 1807 . .. , .. , •..

March 25,1981 Tape No. 637 AH-2 PREMIER PECKFORD: especially on major projects, the best that we can do is ten per cent if you are talking about a fifty or sixty million dollar project, like, for example,you are talking on the Coastal Labrador road. We just do not have the finances to do it,because,Mr. Speaker, we have to turn around and then assist with the Ministry of Transport in finishing the revitalization of the Trans­ Canada Highway. We have to sign that and try to get a good a deal as we can-and undoubtedly it would be ten or fifteen per cent or whatever.

We went into the first phrase of it fifty/fifty and it almost broke us. There is no question about it, the amount of funds that we had to put up on that was just stupendous, it was fantastic. Now if the Trans-canada Highway and the other highways in Newfoundland were equal in standard to what they are all across Canada, then you would have to drop your - you would have to increase your percentage as a Province's share of additional funds. But our problem is,Mr.

Speaker, that we are always in a catch-up kind of situation and we are still in the developing stage of our economy, the developing stage of our services,and obviously when you get into other areas of the nation where there is already a well developed, for example, road system,then you cannot expect the federal government to keep financing ninety/ten 1but you can,and the federal government does in most areas,· in all areas of Canada that are in a like position like Newfoundland. And one of the arguments that we put forward,Mr.

Speaker, on the Coastal Labrador road as related to ninety/ten is that the Northlands Agreement in Manitoba,and some of the places even in Saskatchewan and British Columbia,the have provinces,that they have financed it ninety/ten and eighty/twenty, hundreds of millions of dollars at ninety/ten. 1808 .,

March 25 , 1981 Tape No. £37 AH- 3 PREHIER 1'£C!\FORD: And we would suqqest and have suggested to the federal government, what is the difference in Labrador and Northern Manit o ba or Northern Saskatchewan, that it is a like situation and given ~~at we are in a developing stage there that this kind of i.nfusion of Canadian dollars must be put in on the front end and after you have established a transportation systa~ which is relatively equal to that of other areas 1 then yo u can increase your share of rebuilding it or whatever alo ng with the other areas of the country whic h a:e doing l i kewise . 1809 ~ ·· ~p ~· .•. , ~· 1 ·''l

:!!arch 2 5 , 1 9 81 Tape No. 638 DW - l PS.E"1IER PECKFORD: So we have oeen very strong on those 9oints. But even if that was not so, Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is at this point in our history we are net in a position to finance additional projects. "!R. S. ~E.'\RY: A ~oint of order, Mr. Soeaker. ~R. SPEAKE~ (Simms) A point of order has been raised by the han. member for LaPoile. MR. S. NEARY: ~r.

Speaker, I know it is not the Premier's intention to deliberately mislead this House, but the han. gentleman in a statement he made; if I interpreted his statement as correct a few moments ago about the Trans-Labrador Highway, an agreement waiting to be signed, I just talked to the DREE officials on the phone and I can tell the House that there is no agreement. It is merely a proposal at this partic­ ular ooint in time. It is on the wish list MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! I believe I have heard enough of what the hon. merr~er is trying to say.

It is obviously not a point of order, it is a difference of opinion. The hon. member is offering inforwation, that is not a point of order. The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, this is terrible, I mean,this is just a complete flaunting of the rules of the House. I mean,how can this institution continue to be a reoutable one ,_.,ith such things like that:' :-IR. S. NEARY: ?'<E'UER PECKFORD: Now that is what (inaudible). l'!hat I am saying, -"!r.

Speaker, is 'de have a roads aqree!11 .ent before the De]:)artment of Regional Economic Expansion 1vhich I ,,Till have the CO?ies of just momentarily here before me to show it, to prove it - :O!R. S. NEfi.RV: Okay. SOME SON. M::MBERS: Hear, near! 810 .., .. , .. , .. ,

~1arch 25, 1981 Tape No. 638 OW - 2 PREMIER PECKFORD: Coastal Labrador Renewable Resource Development proposal-right here. MR . S. NEARY: (Inaudible) phonecall. PREMIER PECKFORD: Just one second now, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): Order, please! PREMIER PECKFORD: Just let the hon. member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) keep his mouth shut while somebody else has the floor here and is allowed to speak. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! PREMIER PECKFORD: Just one second now, just keep quiet! Here is all the documentation on this. I have all the agreements here - MR. S. NEARY: Where is the agreement? PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr.

Speaker, could you have the - .. , MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! PREMIER PECKFORD: Here is the justification reports- DREE, Cost Sharing Highway Projects, February,l980. This was some of the justifications that went up from time - ~...R. S. NEARY: Where is the agreement? PREMIER PECKFORD : There is no agreement because the federal government will not sign it. It is a proposal to the federal government, it is an agreement to be signed. You cannot ''! hav~ an aqreement un.til two sides siqn it. MR. NEARY: Caught again! !-':~. G. FLIGHT: . It is a proposed agreement. PREMIER PECKFORD: A proposed agreement, exactly.

We have an agreement read y to sign,if you want to call it that. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! .. , 1 8 11

March 25, 1981 Tape No. 638 DW - 3 MR. S. NEARY: It is only a proposal yet. PRE!o!IER PECKFORD: Well, that is because the federal government, Mr. Speaker, has not been willinq to sit down and talk about it to us. It is up there, it is ready for signing. This is my whole point, Mr. Speaker. MR. S. NEARY: (Inaudible) had better tell the truth for a change . MR. SPEAKER(Sirnrns): Order, please! SOME HON. NEMBERS : Oh , oh! MR. W. MARSHALL: A point of order, Mr. Speaker. ~.F .• SPEAKER: A point of order, the hon. Presi- dent of the Council. MR. W. MARSHALL: Mr.

Speaker, the hon. gentleman, you know, he is interrupting in the debate, first of all, and that is finer but he just shouted across the House, 'The han. gentleman better start telling the truth for a change'. Now, Mr. Speaker, that is entirely and completely out of order and calls for an irnrnediate,unqualified retraction by the hon. member. MR. S. NEARY: M.~. SPEAKER: member for LaPoile. MR. S. NEARY: To the point of order, Mr. Speaker. To the point of order, the hon. If I offended the han. gentleman - I do not think it is unparliamentary-but I withdraw it anyway if it offended the hon. gentleman. MR. W.

MARSHALL: MR. SPEAKER: dent of the Council. MR. W. MARSHALL: No, Mr. Speaker! No, Mr. Speaker! Order, please! Order, please! A point of order, the han. Presi- Mr. Speaker, I would submit that is not a good and sufficient retraction. It is not a retraction, Mr. Speaker, or whether he offended the han. member. What the han. member has done is he is offending the privileges of this Reuse of Assembly. This is a House of Assembly, Mr. 1 81 2 ''I '•t •.. .. ,

March 25, 1981 Tape No . 638 MR. N . MARSH.ZU.L: S?eaker, which is based on civilized practices and tole are try ing to maintain them despite ~~e attitude and the continued types of inter­ tuptions by the han. ~ember . DW - 4 Now·, Mr . Speaker, the han . member has made a statement which is not - and he has retracted but he has not retracted , Mr . Speaker, 'if he offends the hon . gentleman.' tl!r . Speake r , I cannot find - whether I find the hon . gentleman offensive o ne tvay or the other ins ide or outside the Rou s e is - I lvill not even comment on it, that is net the point . The point, Mr .

Speaker, is that he has offended this Bouse by making statements lL"e tha:t and he shou~d be made to retract without any qualification ~vhatsoever. There are p rocedures if he does not . 1-1R . S . NEA.RY : To ~ilat point of order, Mr . Speaker . MR . SPE.n.KER{Simms} : To the point oi order, the han . member for LaPoile . MR. S . NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the han . gentle - man is turning the House into a complete shambles . I withdrew , And I might say, Mr.

Speaker, that I am not inter ­ ested in the han . gentleman . ! am interest€d in the statemen~ the Premier made and ~1-}a t is what I want to ge t at , the L-uth of the matter . 1813 .. , ,, ,, , .. ,~, ,,

March 25, 1981 MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : MR. NEARY: order (inaudible) MR. SPEAKER: one first. Tape No. 639 SD - 1 You are not speaking to the pcint of order. So I am raising another point of Well ,I have to rule on the first The first one is that there were unparliamentary terms thrown across the House. My understanding is that the han. member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) has withdrawn it,as I would have directed him to do so,but he did it before I directed him to do so. Is that a correct understanding? MR. NEARY: Yes. MR. SPEAKER: Correct. MR. NEARY: On a point of order. MR.

SPEAKER: On a point of order, the han. member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the information that was given the House a few moments ago by the Premier are contrary to the facts. The han. gentleman made a statement,and Hansard will confirm this, Mr. Speaker, that there is a proposed agreement down in the DREE office on a Trans-Labrador Highway. And after checking a few moments ago,I am told there is no proposed agreement, it is merely a proposal, it is on a list, there have been no negotiations for an agreement - MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

That is exactly the same point of order that I ruled on a moment ago. The han. member is providing information. It is not a point of order. It is a difference of opinion with respect to the facts. So I rule there is no point of order. The han. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, I want to get on with it before my time is gone because obviously the Oppostion does not want to hear the truth, they want it delayed by points of order so that I do not have an opportunity to tell the truth and 181 4 .. , ''I ''l ''I

Harch 25, 1981 Ta,pe No. 639 SD - 2 PREMIER PECKFORD: relates to here. SOME HON. t-I.EMBERS : the facts of the matter as it Hear, hear. PREMIER PECKFORD: There is a secondary roads p~oposal, agreement, whatever you want to call it, before the federal government that we wished to sign yesterday. And the part on the Trans-Labrador Highway is here, there is the map of part of the Trans-Labrador Highway,and here is the justification report, the setting, 'The resources of Labrador contribute greatly to the provincial economy and offer immense potential for the future.

In recognition.of this, the government of Newfoundland and ~~brador has adopted policies to improve the quality of life in Labardor and to facilitate further resource development'. l.fR. NEARY: PREMIER PECKFORD: MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (Simms) PREMIER PECKFORD : NR. SPEAKER: That is a philosophy. No, what they - That is a philosophy. Order, please! Mr. Speaker. Order, please! It is very difficult in debate to have members shouting across the floor to one another, \·ie will never get any debate carried on in the House if that continues.

I must ask the han. member to my right to restrain himself and allow the hon. the Premier to finish. PREMIER PECKFORD: And then we go on, Hr. Speaker, wit~ the justification report of the populations, of what is happening in Happy Valley - Goose Bay and the sad situation that has been caused there,and w~ talk about Labrador City and Wabush,and we talk about the absolute necessity of this proposal being signed now. Then we get into the existing transportation system, Mr. Speaker, and talk about the population centres and the amount of mileage and what has to be done there. 1 B 1 5 •.. .., 'I

March 25, 1981 Tape No. 639 SD - 3 PRE~1IER PECKFORD: And then we get into the overvie>v of the impacts, the construction impact, and talk about the construction of the road 'would mean an injection of $38 million into the Labrador economy over a five year period. Our proposal is a five year agreement to begin the road from Labrador City to Churchill Falls and this will be a substantial boost not only to a depressed area' - and then we get into the social costs and impacts of it and what this highway will mean.

And this is the back-up justification report for it that has been presented to DREE in a booklet which contains justification reports for the other parts of it, Mr. Speaker. Then I wrote the hon. the minister on May 23rd, 1980, Mr. Speaker, that is almost a year ago, 'Dear Mr. De Bane: As you are no doubt aware the Province of Newfoundland, since Confederation with Canada, has placed a great deal of emphasis on bringing the level of public services up to the standards which have been enjoyed by other Canadians'.

And we go through the whole business, 'Since this has been a very major undertaking', on we go, 'in assisting the Province in achieving these goals in the transportation sector, DREE in the Province', this is May 1980, Mr. Speaker, to the Minister of DREE, 'since 1970 have entered into a series of agreements which have provided large sums of money to construct or re-construct a major secondary highroads agreement'. And this went with the full package. 'The latest such-agreement which has been amended on several occasions to provide additional funding and to increase the scope of work was signed in 1976.

Trie are presently entering the final year of that agreement. 'I feel it is safe to say that the various DREE Newfoundland highway agreements have had a tremendous impact upon the development of our resources. As I indicated to you previously, the upgrading of our secondary highroad systa~ - And then we get down and I ended off by going over the agreements and then we have 1 8 1 r" i • 0 ·~: •.. ''I

March 25, 1981 Tape No. 639 SD - 4 .. , P~!IER PECKFORD: the agreements here to be signed, proposed new DREE highways programme agreement. So the whole agreement has been ' "I 1 B 1 7

March 25, 1981 Tape No. 640 EL - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: before the Federal Government. That is why we say on this side of the House, Mr. Speaker, number one, Labrador is a very important component in not only the transportation but the economic system of this Province, therefore we went about preparing proposals for agreements between the federal and Newfoundland governments. Our proposals are done and they have been submitted to the Department of Regional Economic Expansion for over a year now. The coastal Labrador one has been there two or three years. We are ready to sign yesterday. We will sign today.

We will put the TV lights on today if the Federal Government >>Till now sit down and seriously si,gn these agreements. ~.R.NEARY: (inaudible) PREMIER PECKFORD: We have our share of the money. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): Order, please! PREMIER PECKFORD: The member for LaPoile does not like to hear it, Mr. Speaker. We have our share of the money and the agreement has been in Ottawa and has been there now for over a year, some for two years,and it was only too bad- MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: PREMIER PECKFORD: (Inaudible) Order, please! - that the member for LaPoile (S.

Neary) is not the Minister of DREE, because I am sure he would sign them with us. MR.· NEARY: A point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A point of order has been raised. The hon .. member for LaPoile. MR.NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I would submit that the hon. the Premier is misleading the House, whether he is doing it deliberately or out of ignorance I am not sure,but I am told, Mr. Speaker, by DREE and by Ottawa that there is no 1818 .. , .. ,

March 25, 1981 Tape No. 640 EL - 2 MR. NEARY: agreement. I am asking the Prem- ier if he is calling it an agreement to produce the agreement and put it on the table of the House or stop misleading the House. PREMIER PECKFORD: MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : the Premier. To the point of order, Mr. Speaker. 'I'o the point of order, the hon. PREMIER PECKFORD: To the point of order, I do not think there is a point of order at all. I think it is just a difference of opinion between two hon. mernbers,as the hon. Speaker has ruled before. MR.

SPEAKER: With respect to the point or order, the reference is the same as I have given before earl­ ier that it is a difference of opinion. In the meantime,! must ask the hon. member if he would withdraw the remark, 'misleading the House'. I have ruled on several occasions that I find that to be unparliamentary and it is not nec­ essary to be used. MR. SPEAKER: MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member withdraw it? Yes, Mr. Speaker. I am sorry to advise the hon. the Premier now that his time is expired unless there is leave. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: MR. HISCOCK: MR. SPEAKER: MR. HISCOCK: SOME HON.

MEMBERS : MR. HISCOCK: Is there leave? No.· No leave. Mr. Speaker. The hon. member for Eagle River. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Hear, hear! I am very pleased that the Premier is in his chair at the moment because he is being very quick 1 8 1 9 .. ''I ''I

~1arch 25, 1981 Tape No . 640 EL - 3 !-!R . RISCOCi< : when we ask questions to come and produ ce paper and produce in£ormation . I just got a phone call -that is the reason why I have been going back and forth - ane people on the Coast of Labrador, the Provincial t-lanpower is now having intervie\"S down in Goose Bay with regards to the oil, to service oil ships this Summer, in Goose Bay . And they are having their interviews down there . They never con- tacted the Canada Manpower down there until they got down there, ~umber one.

Number two, there are people actually out on the coast , Mr . ?remier, who want to apply for these jobs, cannot apply for these jobs because they are in Goose Bay and, number t'f.ro now is here we have people on the coast wanting to get in for these interviews and cannot get in and the se jobs now are only going to be ta~en by people in the Goose Bay area. 1 8 2 0 ~· ~· ,. ~ ·

March 25, 1981, Tape 641, Page 1 -- apb MR. HISCOCK: So,Mr. Speaker, if the Premier is concerned about Labrador and the coast, I would go as far as to say that the Premier should get on to hisManpower Minister and the officials down there and make sure. I was just talking with one of the officials down there, 'We have not got time. We have not got time to go out to the coast 1 - three of four months in ad- vance - 1 We do not have time 1 • And the Minister of Labour and ~1anpower (l'<Lr. Dinn) there, just has a smirky smile on his face. I would say, Mr.

Speaker, that this Minister of Labour and Manpower does not even know what is going on in his department. And I am extremely upset by this because this is the second time this ~as happened, that we have had jobs on the offshore rigs, or the supply boats, and provincial Manpower officials went down, never contacted the federal people so that the federal people could pay the provincial people down in the district and get them into Goose Bay so they can have an opportunity~ We are sick and tired of that side asking everything from Ottawa, Ottawa!

I would support this resolution 200 per cent to get the coastal Labrador agreement in my district, the Strait road and the Trans­ Labrador Highway. I do not care if it done by the federal government, which it will have to be done by in the end. But was it not the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) when was Minister of Transportation who went down and went with the bulldozer to Freedon Road? Did we not have a Liberal Government down in Labrador and ended up getting the road from Goose Bay to Labrador City?

And we had, believe it or not, we had a scrap truck come from Sept­ Iles last year and, come all the way up into Goose Bay and take a load of scrap and bring it out to Sept-Iles. The road is there, the base is there. And I would even go as far as to say again, without being partisan, if we 1 B 21 .. , ' 'I .. , ..

March 25, 1981, Tape 641, Page 2 -- apb ~1R. HISCOCK: would have turned around since we went into Labrador in an industrial way and spent SlO million each year in the past thirty years, the road w~uld have be en done. No help from Ottawa, but we would have done it and we would not have the alienation that we have down in Labrador now. And I w~uld say, ~­ Speaker, it is not good enough to ask Ottawa to go ninety/ ten on this and turn around and claim that they have it as Canadians, their rightful right as Canadians, because Northern Manitoba, or Northern Saskatchewan, or Northern Albe~a gets it.

It is not ·good enough, Mr. Spea~er. Either Labrdor is part of this Province or it is not. MR . NEARY: Hear, hear! MR. HISCOCK: And i£ we as a Province are not prepared to spend ninety per cent of our own dollars on this instead of taking it out, whether it is right or wrong, this is how the people perceive it. And we are not going to get rid of that alienation by asking Ottawa to turn around and do everything. There is a moral responsibility here, Mr. Speaker, and that moral responsibility lies with this goverP~ent. If there was a Liberal Government on that side it. 1822 •. .. ,,

March 25, 1981 Tape No. 642 NM - 1 MR. HISCOCK: would be a moral responsibility on the Liberal Government to make sure that we carry out our responsibility. We have seen time and time again houses built in Newfoundland from the money they made off the Churchill Falls, from the money they made off Wabush, and when tb.e Americans were there. Lots of weal thy contractors are after making their money off Labrador. So, Mr. Speaker, do not get on with this fooli~hness in this House when we suggest that Ottawa has to do everything. Five years ago, since Mr.

Trudeau has been in power in Ottawa, I was looking through the figures and finding out how much money actually was spent in the district of Grand Falls-White Bay-Labrador, $37 million,

whereas the other districts like St. John's had $160 million and another one -it kept going on and on. I would go as far as, Mr. Speaker, that there is more money being spent down on the Labrador, in the Labrador district and in the district of Grand Falls-White Bay-Labrador since Mr. Rompkey has been in the Cabinet than in all the twelve years. And it is not saying anything was not done in the past but particularly Ottawa, Ottawa is doing its share.

This Coastal Labrador DREE Agreement th~t is being done is a ninety/ten, $47 million ninety /ten; agreed we are having problems and I would not be the last one to turn around and say we are not having problems, we are. But, Mr. Speaker, it is too easy for us to turn around and blame it in a politically partisan way. I want it signed and I would love to have it signed now. The people in my district are totally fed up from the point of view that they want to go with Quebec. But the crux of the matter cernes, Mr. Speaker, if Ottawa signs that agreement, signs 1823 .. , ''I .. ,

~larch 25, 1981 Tape No. 642 MR. HISCOCK: t~e ninety/ten on the Trans- Labrador Highway, would that mean that this provincial government would take other money and build a library in Wabush, do the Arts and Culture Centre in Goose Bay? I had a road done in my district last year, $100,000 in Charlottetown. The Minister of Transportation (Mr. Brett) said, "That is it, $100,000." We had to get the Minister of Rural Development to get some extra money so we could connect up the dump. We had to get extra money so we could connect up the two schools.

We had to .get extra money to connect up the clinic. $100,000, and here we turn around and ask Ottawa to do the Trans-Labrador Highway. I would go so far as to say NM - 2 if we had a goverTh~ent that had less confrontation we would turn around and end up getting a ninety/ten,as the government here did get on the Trans-Canada Highway. The President of the Privy Council (Mr. Marshall) probably may disagree with that and I would expect him to. :-1R. NEARY: MR. HISCOCK: You have to negotiate first. But, Mr. Speaker, it has yet to be proved.Like that road in Charlottetown, this 1824 '';' •• '" .. , ''!

March 25,1981 Tape No. 643 AH-1 MR. HISCOCK: Winter when we had a washout because of mild weather,what happened to the person down in Charlottetown? His house was flooded, two feet of water , still a solid block of ice. And here we have a provincial government who wants Ottawa to do everything. Mr.

Speaker, the root of the problem of this resolution is not asking Ottawa to do it or not asking our own provincial government to do it, but it is the way Labrador is generally being treated and, whether we like it or not and whether the media likes it or not the Labrador people fee~ and I think rightly so, that they are not being treated equally. I had a person visit with me today with regard to getting a phone installed in Ship Harbour. This day and age we still have communities that go out there and fish and still do not have any contact with the outside world, Fair Harbour and Sandy Hook and other places.

We still have place down there that do not even have a road. Cartwright does not even have a ~,~not even have a road,and the community has probably a population of seventy or eighty people. Are we expecting Ottawa to do that road? Are we going to expect Ottawa to do the road in Paradise River? MR. HANCOCK: done. MR. HISCOCK: If they do not it will never get There is a road from Mary's Harbour to Lodge Bay and if I am correct , I believe, any of the agreements that we have with Ottawa is done on the basis we will look after major trunk roads and you,the provincial government,look after by-roads.

Is that not the reason why your district is not being looked after 1 because it is not a trunk road? MR. HANCOCK: That is right~ 1825 ., .. , . .. , ..

March 25, 1981 Tape No . 643 IB- 2 MR . HISCOCK: I asked the que s tio n, how come this six miles in my district,which is in Labrador , that the provincial government wants the federal government to do that six miles? I would even go as :fa.r as to say, Mr . ·speaker , with regard to s eparatism o r the feeling of going \vith Quebec - and I s.aid it and I will say this again - if ~~ere was any feeling in Labrador the way this government is going I think Lab r ado r would be better off if it had territoria ·l st:atus . Because this government •,;ants Ottawa to do everything in Labrador ·.

Number one , the Lower Churchill , OttavFa built it. The T r ans-Lab r ador high\vay , Ottawa built it . T he airstr-ips , Ottav1a built them . If Ottawa is going to do all these thi ngs do\Yn in Labrador a.nd we are only going to give 10 per cent , why go through a middle man , \,•hy . go through a br0ker ? .~d that is why , Mr . Speaker, and the sincerity of my convictions are saying it is not important enough , ~·lr . Speake r , o r the me.rnber for Burgeo - aay d ' Espoir (Mr . Andrews), it is not impo·rtant enough to go and do the money from the federal government .

The crux of ~~e problem 18 26 • .•. , ,., .. .. ,

" Harch 25, 1981 Tape No. 644 EL - 1 ~ffi.HISCOCK: is that we have to integrate, make Labrador feel an equal part of this Province and •,.;e do that, Mr. Speaker, by keeping the craft centre open do\vn in Goose Bay, by turning around and building more airstrips, ry looking at the schools. The Minister of Education (L.Verge) went and toured the schools in Labrador 1 and particularly in my district. She came back and she said they were sub-stand- ard. Now, that is not Ottawa. But what is our government doing about .the sub-standard schools.

I ask her? 'Oh, that is the responsibility of DEC~ we gave them $12 million last year and we gave them $12 million this year: That is not doing any- thing for the sub-standard schools. lve have communi ties do•,.;n there Norman Bay and Pinsent 's li.IIll, that should have anot.'ler teacher but because there are no accommodations there ior them, what is happening? Those teachers are in St. Anthony teaching. So here we want Ottawa to build a road and Ottawa to do this and the Provincial Government will not even face their respon- sibility.

So, Ottawa, when I had meetings with the 9REE minister and I talked about the school in Will- iams Harbour and schools on the Labrador coast and tried to get it put back into DREE and tried to get Ottawa to do the schools because our government is not going to do it, t~e minister of DREE said to me, ·~e will do the Cuastal Labrador DREE Agreement on a ninety-ten and obviously if we are going to do it on a ninety-ten, what is going to ha~~en is that the Province will have more money to go a;:c. C:.o the schools.

So, I am asking the President of the Privy Council (W.Marshall) and the Premier if Ottawa does do the Trans-Labrador Highway .. and we are doing the ninety-ten which is for $47 million,and a native agreement which is ~z~ u I •. ! .. , •.. .. , ''I

March 25, 1981 Tape No. 644 EL - 2 MR. HISCOCK: for $40 million and an expansion to the airport and industrial park in Goose Bay. The bridge across Goose Bay in the Northwest River area, which was supposed to cost $2.5 million is up to something now like $6 or $7 or $8 million. That is what the Public Accounts Committee should look at and find out why that cost of the bridge jumped up that much. So, Mr.

Speaker, if I could be assured and the Federal Government could be assured by taking this money and putting extra money in that the Province would turn around and do its responsibilities and its legal obligations in Labrador, then fine. But when you look at this and condemn Ottawa for not signing it, I do not think, Mr. Speaker, it is good enough to turn around and condemn.

I do not think we are going to get ahead in this Province by being political and asking Ottawa one minute, condemning them because they are not doing this, and then turning around and saying 'Will you give us $300 million for this and give us this.' The Minister of Transportation (Mr. Brett), for e~ample, with the Minister of Transport for Ottawa, Jean-Luc Pepin, yesterday, $50 million was given for the railway. Did he thank him? Did he say any­ thing about thanking him for the $50 million? Not that you had to go on your hands and knees or anything, but did he give a genuine courteous thank-you?

No! iB23 ' 'I .., .., ' 'I ' I

March 25, 1981 Tape 645 PK - 1 MR. HISCOCK: He turned around and said, well it was almost useless. He said, we did not get anything for the Trans-Canada Highway. · Why did we not get anything for the Trans-Canada Highway? The Minister of Transport in Ottawa, Mr. Jean-Luc Pepin,turned around and said, Ottawa will be making an initial grant to this Province, it will be almost $300 million, and it is up to this Province to decide how that $300 million is going to be spent. MR. NEARY: Right on. MR. HISCOCK: Did the Minister for Transportation (Mr. Brett) here tell him that? No.

We never got the 90-10, or we never got this. MR. NEARY: As a matter of fact,the Minister for Transportation could not even tell the minister from Ottawa what the government's priorities are here. MR. HISCOCK: And, Mr.

Speaker, with regard to priorities in this government, we have this five year plan and now we are going to have - how many million dollars did he say in the five years they were going to get, $37 million or $56 million? $37 million, I think I heard,­ $37 million that we are actually going to be putting into Labrador now - after Labrador putting how many into the Treasury of the provincial government? And we are clapping now - MR. NEARY: (Inaudible) . MR. HISCOCK: With the 90-10, with the Trans- Labrador Highway, if they - MR. NEARY: Trans-Labrador Highway. MR. HISCOCK: there was,they said.

There is no agreement for the That is their imagination; if 1829 ., ' I ., .. , ' I

March 25, 1981 MR. NEARY: agreement. MR. HISCOCK: Tape 645 PK - 2 I just checked with DREE, there is no Of course there is no agreement because again our provincial government always go with the fact that if you want anything done say Ottawa will do it, and DREE will do it, and automatically it causes the provincial government to say it should be done and then there is an agreement. MR. NEARY: MR. HISCOCK: or whatever. They are calling a wish list an agreement. Well again,as we were saying 1 a wish list But, Mr.

Speaker, my main concern is here, and I really believe this to the bottom of my emotion, that Labrador h&s to be addressed and the problems of Labrador, and Mr. Burgess of Labrador West said it, and the Labrador South member, Mr. Martin,said it. MR. NEARY: Before them Charlie Devine said it. MR. HISCOCK: And Mr. Devine said it, and before and before and before, and I suppose it will be continued. But, Mr. Speaker, when the member for Menihek (Mr.

Walsh) got up and stated that Labrador should be doing this, I would ask the member for Menihek when they do do this will that mean that will free money''-and Labrador City will have its library? Will that mean that I can expect schools dow~ in my district? Will that mean I can expect better· communication down there? Will that mean I can get a health clinic in Black Tickle? Will that mean that I can get another clinic in Fox Harbour? So, Mr. Speaker, I think these are the questions that have to come back. And the other one that I am extremely upset with, here we have the Minister of Labour and Manpower (Mr.

Dinnl, and I hope if there is anyone from the press listening 1830 .. , .. , .. , .. , ' ·I .. ,

March 25, 1981 Tape 645 PK - 3 MR. HISCOCK: they should pay attention, here is the Minister of Labour and Manpower (Mr. Dinn) alorifying our hiring Newfoundland people for the oil rigs-what odds about the Canadian, what odds about the Americans, hire Newfoundlanders first - here are our people 1 8 31 ''I .. , .. , ··~

~larch 25, 1981, Tape 646, Page 1 -- apb }1.~. HISCOCK: now,out on the · coast of Labrador who want to get into Goose Bay for interviews. advertising was done on the coast to say that the Provincial Department of Manpower was going to be coming down there. They contacted the Federal Department of Manpower after they arrived. Now, when the people want to ao in for the jobs, they either have to get on a 6:15 flight here in St. John's - those who are going to the Trades School - and get on down to Labrador - MR. SPEAKER(Butt): One minute. No MR.

HISCOCK: - as well as people on the coast, and there will not be time for them. So I would ask the President of the Privy Council (Mr. Marshall) and the Premier if they are concerned about the inequality of it? Can the President of the Privy Council and the Premier assure the residents of Labrador that they will have interviews for these jobs? Because if they do not, Mr. Speaker, they will not live this one down. So, Mr.

Speaker, I apologize for getting so ~~otional in this debate at this time, but as I said, when you have a Premier getting up and stating that Ottawa should do this, and his own department will not even allow people down in my district to go for interviews - not saying they are going to get the jobs - I think, Mr. Speaker, it is a lot of hypocrisy and a lot of politics, and I, for one, have had enough politics with the coastal Labrador DREE agreement, I have had enough of politics with regards to this confrontation between Ottawa and Newfoundland and Labrador. And w~, Mr.

Speaker, on this side, and the people in my district are concerned with the roads, and are concerned with the schools, and are concerned with other problems. So, Mr. Speaker, I thank you kindlyand my hope for these jobs is that the pe~ple in my district will have the opportunity to apply for these jobs. Thank you. 1 8 3 2 "I . .. ''I .,

March 25, 1981, Tape 646, Page 2 -- apb SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER(Butt): of the Council. SOME HON. MEMBERS: He.ar, hear! The hon. the President Hear, hear! MR. MARSF~LL: Mr. Speaker, I had not really intended to get into the debate until the hon. gentleman who is now - MR. NEARY: call, Mr. Speaker. MR. MARSHALL: foolish, how spurious is that? MR. SPEAKER: MR. MARSHALL: A quorum call. A quorum Mr. Speaker, how A quorum call. I cannot help it if the hon. the member for Eagle River (Mr.Hiscock) drove everyone out of the House. MR. SPEAKER: We have a quorum. The hon. the President of the Council. SOME HON.

MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. MARSHALL: I might point out in beginning my remarks that .the hon. member who just spoke, who just sat down - he is not in the Chamber now - the hon. the member for Eagle River, while he was here, the whole time, I do not think there was a quorum in the House. A quorum is fourteen and there were about ten or eleven maintained· on this side and one or two on the other side. The hon. gentlemen here opposite are more interested in the affairs of government rather than playing silly little games that the Opposition is about. Mr.

Speaker, I am on my feet really at the invitation, not that I need one, from the hon. the member for Eagle River about this particular matter. Because there are young people in the galleries this afternoon and I do not think, really, that the hon. a3: "I "I

March 25, 1981, Tape 646, Page 3 -- apb MR • MARSHAJ,.L : member for Eagle River has been putting this particular reso1ution and explaining the ~port of this resolution that has been brought in by the han. the member for Menihek{Mr. Walsh) who represents Labrador West, in Labrador. And the han. the member for Menihek,being mainly concerned with his district and Labrador in total, has brought ·a resolution for members of this BO\lSe to debate to the effect that 'The House urge the federal government to live up to its responsibility and sign certain agreements for the development of Labrador'. Now, we all know how important Labrador is to this Province, and what an integral

part it is to this Province. We also know of the financial condition of this Province, and we have heard '!:he hon. the Premier, in his address today, indicate to this House, and indicate quite c;I.early, that this government has proposed, made certain proposals to the federal government with respect t0 agreements that have been in the federal government's hands for many, many months and there has been 1834 .... , ~ .. ·'' l ''I ~· ''1

March 25, 1981 Tape No. 647 RA - 1 MR. MARSHALL: absolutely no action on it and without the money there is no way-obviously you need money to provide services. Now, I am not interested really in ascribing the fault as such,but just to point out that as far as this govern­ ment is concerned, this government has done its duty. What more can this government do than to provide and to propose proposals and make up agreements and give them to the federal government and say to ~he federal govern­ ment'We are willing to pay our share; Where is your share?' ;md we have heard nothing since.

I was rather interested when the hon. gentleman for Eagle River (Mr. Hiscock) wanted to talk about politics and politics playing a

part in this He represents the Coastal part of Labrador and, of course, the comments that he makes are to be ~eceived by this House with more interest than perhaps-in a way he has more, not more interest but you can assume that he has more knowledge of the situation petina?S than other members representing other districts on the Island of the Province, but no more than other meffiBers in Labrador.

I was rather surprised the hon. member wants to get up and say_, you know, 'stop the confrontation'and 'it is the Provincial government's fault: Well, unfortunately the hon. gentleman is not in accord with the views of his own constituents ~~ithin the district of Eagle River is the community of Forteau and within his district there is a very active development association. It was not, Mr. Speaker, any more than a week ago that this particular association made a statement,and I am quoting from the E~_e:~.:!:.n_g___1'elg_c;rr_~:rn,a release of March 19th, 1981.

Now, signifi­ cantly I have not got the one that appeared in the Daily News but I have no doubt it did appear in the Daily New~. But this 1835 .. , .. , .. ,

~1arch 25, 1981 Tape No. 61t7 R.'\ - 2 HR. MARSHALL: happens to be one in the Evening Teleqram.~fhe Tourist Industry Association of Labrador Straits has joined three other groups in call- , ing for the resignation of National Revenue Minister Mr. William Rompkey." SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. MARSHALL: This is within his own district. SOME hON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! i-IR. MARSHALL: "The Tourist Association along with the Forteau Community Council 1Southern Labrador Development Association and the Labrador Straits Chamber of Commerce all want Rompkey out:' AN HON. MEMBER: l'lhat? MR.

MARSHALL: "A spokesman for the Tourist Association has said it is greatly dissatisfied and displeased with the minister's obvious lack of concern in seeing that the Coastal Labrador DREE proposal is signed promptly. By his perennial delays in signing this proposal, construction of many projects,including the Labrador Straits Highway,will no doubt be impossible for the 1981 season.•• Now, who said that Mr. Speaker? HR. MARSHALL: Not the members on this side of ~he House, not politicians but constituents of the hon. member from Eagle RivEr.

AN HON .MEMBER: (Inaudible) 1-l.R. ~~s-~ The spokesman went on to say that Mr. Kompkey's favourite practice of putting the of signing the agreement ahead has become a joke in Labrador and he no longer has any credibility there: Now, they are very potent words, they are very potent words for people who have suffered for a long period of time 1836 ''! . . .. ,

.'1arch 25, 1981 Tape No . 647 RA- 3 ~m . ~1ARSH.i\LL : and you can understand their frust rations, A.nd it is very, very difficult, ~7Speaker, •r.~hen these things occur, for John Q ~itizen to realize, what is a federal responsibility a.nd what is a provincial responsibility - And the natural tendency when people are deprived the basic services, such as the people of Southern Labrado r are, is they hit out against everyone .

But this group of people, the leaders of the community up there now in Southern Labrador , have made that ~articular state ­ ment that the federal gover:unent - I pu-. the federal govern ­ ment instead of ~tr . Rompke~ although he is the m~~ber up there- t:he federal member for the area , .:nat he is a joke because of his practice of putting off .:he signing. He went on to say1 'i:or four years \-'e have listened to these empty promises and hold him fully responsible for the highway's deplorable eondi tion :• SCh\IE SON . ~lBERS : MR. :.JARS HALL : iat i0n Hear, hear!

As a local ~ourist .".ssoc- 1 8 3 7 ··'l ,. .. , .. , ·~ I

Harch 25, 1981 Tape No. 648 RA-1 HR. W. MARSHALL: we are deeply commi~ to an expanded ~ourist Associat­ ion and without the improved Labrador Straits Highway we see all other efforts going for naught. And then it went later on 1 Hr. Speaker,'~he association expressed dissatisfaction with the federal governments' recent announcement concerning the funding of a nine hole golf club in Terra Nova National Park~ Now, Terra Nova National Park,I believe,is in the district of the bon. member for Terra Nova. (Hr. Lush).

And the han. member for Terra Nova is getting a nine hoie golf course from the federal government in his district and the people from Labrador South 1 in Forteau and all up and down Coastal Labrador,are being denied basic services while these same people point to their federal member and say,' He is a joke'. Now, Mr. Speaker, I know people if I get up and make my particular pitch people will say ' Oh, he is a Tory, he is a PC 1 it is all politics'.

But I emphasize that this is not a statement made by the politician but this is a statement made by the residents of the district of Eagle River, the residents of a very important part of Grand Falls- White Bay-Labrador who are today suffering, and suffering very, very greatly because of the inability of the present Newfoundland representative in the Cabinet to bring basic and .essential services not just to this Province,and admittedly a long neglected part of this Province,but also to his own district. And very rarely, Mr.

Speaker, do the people in this area speak up so strong­ ly as they have spoken up in this particular case and I think it merits a great deal of consideration. Now, as I say, the issue-and the member from Menihek (Mr. Walsh)in bringing up this resolution-was,I think 1 very, very 1838 .. , ... .. , .. , .. ,

March 25, 1981 Tape No. 647 RA - 2 MR. MARS HALL: well taken. As the member from Henihek (Mr. Walsh) knows, and the member from Naskoupi (Mr. Goudie) knows, there have been proposals, that these agreements have gone to Ottawa and they have been up there for many moons.

The people on the Labrador know, on Coastal Labrador know, as witnessed by what I quoted there, where the fault lies and the response by the two members on the other side from Labrador is eo bring in an amendment to the motion to try to get - you talk about policies-to try to get ~heap political hay by saying the fault is not just the federal government,the fault is the provincial government. HR. CARTER: Scandalous. MR. MARSHALL: And we are not going to accept that amendment,Mr.

Speaker, we are going to vote down the amendment and we are going to vote with the member from Menihek in congratulating him for the way in which he is representing his district am reflecting the concerns of Labrador. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. MARSHALL: 1-IR. HISCOCK: !1R. MARSHALL: Hear, hear! Now, Mr. Speaker, this is The han. member is not(inaudible). - this is - the han. member there opposite is - it is too bad he went downstairs or wherever he went - [viR. HISCOCK: (Inaudible) ~1R. MARSHALL: - the han. gentleman there opposite invited this particular comment.

He has gotten up - ne is representing the people of Labrador .. His own people in the important community of Forteau,and I as­ sume that he assumes the people in Forteau are important and he values their views,have come out four square and 1839 ., '1 .. ,

March 25, 1981 Tape No. 647 RA - 3 MR. MARSHALL: said his colleague in the federal government in Ottawa,that he is a joke, he keeps telling them the agreement is going to be signed but is not going to be signed. Unfortunately, Mr.Speaker, I have to say that if the former Leader or t~e Opposition were up there -we had time. SOME HON. MEMBERS: co-operation 3.t that period of Oh, oh! MR. MARSHALL: Obviously we have unfortunately in the Cabinet right now 1 s9mebody who has not been able to get the same pull for the people of this Provi.nce. ~IR. FLIGHT: MR. MARSHALL: Did ~r. Crosbie (inauaiale)? Now, Mr. Speaker.

I also want ~o draw issue with what the hon. - MR. HISCOCK: MR. SPEAKER (Simms): MR. MARSHALL: (Inaudible) Order, please! •~ow , Mr. Speaker, I did not interrupt the hon. gentleman. I am not interested in en­ tering into debate with - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, this is an extremely important motion and the hon. gentleman there opposite gets up and with a great deal - I know he does not mean it but it sounds very cynical when he gets up and he says , 'Oh, the provincial government got to put in the money.' Or, 'I do not care where the money comes from'.

The provinc­ ial government;. Now where is the provincial government to get this moneyi' 1 a 4 o .. , .. ,

March 25, 1981, Tape 649, Page 1 -- apb MR. MARSF..ALL: The han. gentleman knows the financial position of this Province and paradoxically the han. gentlemen there opposite will turn around and say we should supply all the money for these services and at the same time, they will side with those people in Ottawa who will deny us the means to provide these particular services,and get these monies. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.MARSHALL: They have consistently, ~rr.

Speaker, not spoken up on matters with respect to you talk about Labrador and you talk about community services - our rights to transmit freely hydro power throughout Canada, our rights to be treated as full Canadian citizens instead of not even half Canadian citizens, quarter Canadian citizens. Mr. Speaker, on a point of order. I believe the han. the member for Windsor- Buchans(Mr. Flight) is engaged in a conversation while I am in debate and I believe that I do not have to tolerate being interrupted by a conversation going on on my right hand side. MR. SPEAKER(Butt): Order, please!

Since there is a legitimate point of order there I would ask the han. member if he has something to say to the hon. the Minister of Finance(Dr. Collins), they could probably go out to the common room . of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: The han. the President Yes, Mr. Speaker, at the same time as the han. gentleman there opposite will get up - and, as I say, I know the member, I will not say he is cynical, he is not cynical, he just does not understand, the han. gentleman gets up in this House and 1 8 41 . ''I .. , ' 'I

March 25, 1981, Tape 649, Page 2 -- apb M...~. MARSHALL: says that the people of Newfoundland, the Government of Newfoundland should pay for these services. Now, at the same time he joins, and he is a party with people who are operating against the interests of this Province in denying us the right as Canadian citizens to transmit our power through Labrador, he joins and he is a party with the people in the federal government, the party in the federal government who deny us our basic human rights for our offshore ownership and control of our offshore resources. Mr.

Speaker, he joins with the people of the present government who deny us the right to build the shipyard here in St. John's, for political reasons. So you cannot have it both ways, Mr. Speaker. I suggest to the hon. gentlemen there opposite that what they might choose to do is come up with a policy and decide whether theyare going to stand for the people of Newfoundland or whether they are going to stand for their friends up in Ottawa, who only care for Central Canada. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear~ MR. MARSHALL: Now, these issues, Mr.

Speaker, are far, far too grave for hon. gentlemen there opposite to be playing politics with. If the hon. gentlemen there opposite wished to be acting in the interest of the people of Newfoundland, Mr. Speaker, they would disassociate themselves from the five quizlings from this Province who occupy seats on the government side up in Ottawa - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. MARSHALL: - and they would stand four square, Mr.

Speaker, with this government and with the peop:e of Newfoundland and indicate that they are supporting the people of Newfoundland 150 per cent L~ their quest for . the free transmission of power, for their ow~ership and control of offshore, and for their fishery jurisdictions 1 8 4 2 .. ,

March 25, 1981, Tape 649, Page 3 -- apb MR. MARSHALL: and for the other thrusts of development. You cannot have it both ways, Mr. Speaker, and that is the way the hon. gentlemen there wish it. This Province right now has the greatest potential of any province in Canada but the potential can only be realized if we get our basic human rights as Canadians - not just as Canadians, but as human beings. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. MARS1IALL: And if we are continually denied the right to transmit our power, if we are Mr.

Speaker, continually denied the right for our offshore resources, instead of this being a promising potential for this Province, this Province is going to find itself strapped and being unable for years to come to provide basic services not just for the people of Labrador, but certainly including them, not just for the people of coastal Labrador but for the people of Western Labrador and for the people on the Island itself.

So if the hon. gentleman wants to get up in this House and he wants to stand up as a Newfoundlander and make constructive suggestions as to how these things can come about, what the hon. gentleman will do is he will get up and he will disassociate himself from statements made by the Leader of his party to the effect, in effect, that he is against Newfoundland getting its rights to the offshore and that he will not co-operate wi±h thg transmission of electrical power. If the hon. gentleman wants to do something, that is what the hon. gentleman can do. But when he gets up in this House - 1843 'I .

March 25, 1981 Tape No. 650 SD - l MR. NEARY: MR. MARSHALL: (Inaudible) misleading the House. - and he makes, Mr. Speaker, statements like he has made in the House with respect to these matters- let me re-emphasize~ The han. member for Menihek (Mr. Walsh) in Labrador has brought before this House a resolution and that resolution quite simply says, 'That the han. House urge the federal government to live up to its responsibilities and sign certain agreements for the development of Labrador at the earliest possible moment'.

The hon. the Premier has stood in his place today and he has indicated that these agreements have been up, Mr. Speaker, in Ottawa for nearly a year. MR. NEARY: One, one agreement. MR. MARSHALL: Oh, there werenone a few moments ago, Mr. Speaker. When he went out and he talked to his friends in Ottawa there were none 1 now there is one. MR. NEARY: (Inaudible) signed. MR. MARSHALL: MR. SPEAKER (BUTT): MR. MARSHALL: So if the han. gentleman.­ Order, please! The hon. the Premier has shown that these agreements are up there, Mr. Speaker.

The people from Forteau, in the hon. member's district, have indicated that they are so dissatisfied with the federal government's reaction and lack of signing of these agreements,that they think the federal minister is a joke. Now ,is the hon. gentleman, when this vote is called, going to get up and vote against his constituents in Forteau or is he going to stand up and vote for them? And furthermore, Mr.

Speaker, when other votes come,then maybe the han. gentlemen there opposite will be getting up in their seats, and standing up in their seats and voting for the ?rovincial government rather than siding with our five quiet quislings up in Ottawa. 1'8 4 4 ., "' .

March 25, 1981 SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER (Butt) : SO~ffi HON. MEMBERS: Tape No. 650 SD - 2 Hear, hear. The hon. the Minister of Fisheries. Hear, hear. MR. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker, this debate has been somewhat livened up by my colleague the Government House Leader (Mr. Marshall). SO~fE HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. :.lORGAN: Mr.

Speaker, I want to get back to a topic that I touched on briefly in this debate last Wednesday when, because of the disruptions from the Opposition members which caused an uproar in the ~ouse of Assembly to the point that there was disorder and the Speaker had to leave the Chair, in this case Your Honour in the Chair. I am hoping today to bring forward the information and to indicate why - MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: for LaPoile. A point of order, Mr. Speaker. Order, please! A point of order, the hon. member MR. POWER: Tut, tut,'Steve'. Stop that foolishness, 'Steve'. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, I just heard the hon. gentleman say that last week when he participated in this debate he raised certain matters. In my understanding of the rules of this House, Mr. Speaker, you are only allowe