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August 29, 2012

40th Parliament, 1st Session

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Hansard Transcripts

vol. A

Hansard Transcripts

vol. B

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2012-Aug-29 (PDF)

L071A - Wed 29 Aug 2012 / Mer 29 aoû 2012

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Wednesday 29 August 2012 Mercredi 29 août 2012

ORDERS OF THE DAY

FULL-DAY KINDERGARTEN

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

ORAL QUESTIONS

SCHOOL BOARDS

SCHOOL BOARDS

TEACHERS’ CONTRACTS

GOVERNMENT’S AGENDA

AIR AMBULANCE SERVICE

COMMITTEE WITNESSES

WATER SUPPLY

AIR AMBULANCE SERVICE

ONTARIO NORTHLAND

TRANSPORTATION COMMISSION

RENEWABLE ENERGY

AIR AMBULANCE SERVICE

HEALTH CARE

PUBLIC SAFETY

AIR AMBULANCE SERVICE

MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS

GRAND BEND AND AREA

CHAMBER OF COMMERCE AWARDS

TEMISKAMING SHORES SKATE PARK

CHILD CARE

LAKE NIPISSING WALLEYE FISHERY

ANIMAL PROTECTION

RÉCIPIENDAIRES DE LA MÉDAILLE

DU JUBILÉ DE DIAMANT

CARBON TAX

DISASTER RELIEF

AGRI-FOOD INDUSTRY

VISITOR

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

INTER-PROVINCIAL IMPORTATION

OF WINE AND BEER ACT, 2012 /

LOI DE 2012 SUR L’IMPORTATION

INTERPROVINCIALE DE VIN ET DE BIÈRE

MOTIONS

PRIVATE MEMBERS’ PUBLIC BUSINESS

HOUSE SITTINGS

PETITIONS

RADIATION SAFETY

ONTARIO NORTHLAND

TRANSPORTATION COMMISSION

RADIATION SAFETY

TRANSPORTATION INFRASTRUCTURE

DOG OWNERSHIP

HORSE RACING INDUSTRY

ORDERS OF THE DAY

PUTTING STUDENTS FIRST ACT, 2012 /

LOI DE 2012 DONNANT

LA PRIORITÉ AUX ÉLÈVES

The House met at 0900.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Let us pray.

Prayers.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

FULL-DAY KINDERGARTEN

Hon. John Milloy: I move that, in the opinion of this House, full-day kindergarten is the single most important investment the government can make in the social and economic future of our children and, on this basis, the House supports the government’s commitment to ensure that 250,000 Ontario four- and five-year-olds will be enrolled in North America’s first full-day kindergarten program by September 2014.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Mr. Milloy has moved government motion 45. Mr. Milloy.

Hon. John Milloy: I’m only going to speak just for a minute or two, and I’d like to share my time with the member from Mississauga–Streetsville.

I think all of us recognize the important link between education and the economy, and the fact that we need to start an education as early as possible. I’ve told the story that when I was Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities and meeting with some of the financial experts and experts on the economy in talking about where we should invest in terms of post-secondary education, I said, “If you had that proverbial extra dollar, where should it be invested?” The consensus around the table with some of these lead thinkers was not post-secondary education; it was four- and five-year-olds. We have to start at the beginning, Mr. Speaker. That’s what full-day kindergarten is about.

I have visited many, many schools within my riding where full-day kindergarten is offered and have been impressed with the huge progress that has been made in those students who have gone through it, compared to those who didn’t have that benefit. So as I say, I think this motion speaks for itself.

As I said, with that, I will turn it over to my colleague the member from Mississauga–Streetsville.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The member from Mississauga–Streetsville.

Mr. Bob Delaney: Once upon a time, there was a Great Depression, followed by a great world war. After the war was over, millions of soldiers returned to marry millions of women, build millions of families, spawn the baby boom generation and begin an era of prosperity. Most of these baby boomers—people like me, people like many of you, if you are aged 45 or older—did not attend full-day kindergarten, and the reason is not hard to figure out: It wasn’t available.

Not knowing that full-day kindergarten would benefit us, none of our generation really missed it. In fact, today it is easy for many our age, for whom full-day kindergarten was never an option, to airily dismiss it as fluff or free babysitting, and that would be a tragedy. It would be a tragedy for the generation of kids who would not gain the benefits of socializing with other kids at an early age or learning before their formal schooling begins. It would be a tragedy for employers who will need the kind of skilled people that research says benefit from an early start that full-day kindergarten brings.

Ontarians know that a strong education system has the power to open doors, to change lives and to empower people to achieve their goals; our government knows that as well. For many of us, bringing that hope to educators, to families and to kids represents a big part of the reason that many of us got into government in the first place.

More significantly, other nations know that too. That’s why in China, in India, throughout Asia, in Europe and in Latin America, they grasp the benefit that full-day learning brings to their children.

If you’re a nation that competes with Ontario on the world stage, you only hope that the retrograde, regressive, anti-education attitude that permeates the entire North American Conservative movement takes hold so that your children can outperform Ontario children. Only among North American Conservatives is education seen as an expense to be minimized rather than an investment whose value should be maximized. So if Conservatives in Ontario don’t like full-day kindergarten, you know that there must be something good about it.

The rest of the world is teaching their kids as early as possible to be able to relate to us on our terms. It seems only sensible that we should similarly enrich our own kids. Education is what it takes to succeed in the 21st century, where wealth will be created in the heads of skilled people. Only North American Conservatives don’t get that.

Since 2003, Ontario has worked hard to improve our education system and to give every student the opportunity to succeed and to develop the skills necessary for future success. It’s our shared responsibility to make sure we’re giving our students the skills and the experience that they need to succeed, and that lifelong advantage begins for children in their preschool years. Only the Conservatives steadfastly refuse to see that. How do we know? When the Progressive Conservatives were last in power in Ontario, they closed schools and fired teachers. They lost some 26 million teaching days to strikes—

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: Point of order, Speaker.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Point of order.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: I’m finding that the constant bombardment of less-than-historical inaccuracies is starting to drain the members of the opposition and our patience for such fiction.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): I’m not quite sure that it’s a point of order. However, I do recall yesterday that there was a little bit of a bombardment going the other way, so we’ll give the member some flexibility. But try to stick to the script, please.

Mr. Michael Prue: That is the script.

Mr. Bob Delaney: Thank you, Speaker. I was up until late last night working on this script, and I’m kind of proud of it.

The results achieved by working with teachers and school boards are something to be proud of. Ontario has supported student achievement by keeping class sizes small so that students can continue to get the attention they need to succeed. Ninety-one per cent of primary classes have 20 or fewer students, compared to 31% in 2003. All primary classes have 23 or fewer students, compared to 64% in 2003. More students are graduating high school than ever before, with 82% of students graduating in 2010-11.

That’s a jump of 14 percentage points, from 68% who graduated during the last year of the last Conservative government. Today, 93,000 more students have graduated than would have completed secondary school had the rate remained at the 2003-04 level. That’s roughly equivalent to giving the entire population of the city of Brantford a world-class, supercharged, first-rate education—

Mr. John Yakabuski: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): The member from Renfrew-Nipissing on a point of order.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Speaker, standing order 23 requires that the person speak to the order at hand. The motion does not speak about graduation rates from high school or anything else; it speaks about full-day kindergarten. I would ask, Speaker, that you compel the member to either speak to the motion or spare us and take a seat.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): I hear the point of order. I’m not sure it’s a point of order. The member is giving a comparative analysis of the school system; I’m not quite sure I can call him out of order for that. But I would suggest that he not continue to go after the opposition when it doesn’t relate to the motion we’re talking about. I’ll be watching very carefully. Please don’t stick to the script in that case, okay? Thank you.

Mr. Bob Delaney: Thank you, Speaker.

The steady, year-over-year increase in the high school graduation rate is thanks to the province’s student success strategy and the hard work of students, teachers, principals and support staff. Ontario students in all grades are getting the knowledge they need to succeed and the skills to compete in our ever-changing economy. Sixty-nine per cent of students in grades 3 and 6 are meeting or exceeding the provincial standards, and this is up 15 percentage points from 54% nine years ago.

Ontario students are recognized as being in the top 10 in the world for reading, according to the results from the 2009 Programme for International Student Assessments. Ontario is recognized as one of the few jurisdictions in the world where 92% of students are performing above international standards, regardless of their socio-economic background or their first language. All of this didn’t happen by accident, nor did it happen overnight.

This province and this government had to make some challenging choices, not just in these tough economic times but also in the past eight years, around our priorities and particularly Ontario’s priorities in early learning.

From the beginning, a strong education has been an essential piece of our government’s plan to build a stronger Ontario. This government set a goal to make Ontario’s education system the best in the world, and we have met that goal. You don’t have to look any further than full-day kindergarten, the most significant transformation in our education system in a generation, as evidence of that.

Our government recognized that the historic separation between formal education and early childhood learning needed to be transformed to support a more natural mode of learning. Increased integration means a more seamless transition for children, which helps create the conditions necessary for them to be successful both in school and in life. That’s why in 2007 Premier McGuinty appointed Dr. Charles Pascal to be his special adviser on early learning. In June 2009, Dr. Pascal delivered his report, which is called, With Our Best Future in Mind: Implementing Early Learning in Ontario.

The report contained 20 recommendations on how to introduce full-day learning to Ontario students and to create seamless, integrated services for children and young families, including a recommendation to bring full-day kindergarten for four- and five-year-olds to Ontario.

Our government agreed with Dr. Pascal’s direction and chose to introduce full-day kindergarten as an essential step to help our youngest children get a better education. Full-day kindergarten for four- and five-year-olds is one of the most important investments that Ontario has ever made. We believe it’s an important one. It’s about setting our kids on the road to success and building a stronger knowledge-based economy in the province of Ontario.

So let’s come back to Ontario Conservatives, once led by an education minister. Today, their ever-changing position on full-day kindergarten mirrors their discord and conflict on so many other important issues. If it doesn’t square with the US-based, Tea Party brand of retro nostalgia, they don’t see its value—

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): I would suggest that the member is drifting a little bit. A Tea Party comparison is a little bit out of line, so I would suggest you withdraw that one.

Mr. Bob Delaney: Withdrawn.

Ontario Liberals know that full-day kindergarten is the single most important investment that we can make in the social and economic future of our children. We stand by our commitment to ensure that 250,000 Ontario four- and five-year-olds will be enrolled in North America’s first full-day kindergarten by September 2014.

The program establishes a strong foundation for learning in the early years in a safe and caring play-based environment that promotes the physical, social, emotional and cognitive development of all children. Giving Ontario four- and five-year-olds a full day of learning helps improve their success in school, including their skills in reading, writing and math, and it provides a smoother transition to grade 1. Our province’s approach to kindergarten helps children develop the skills they need to set them on track to a good foundation for success in school and in life.

Ontario is phasing full-day kindergarten into our education system gradually, with about 50,000 four- and five-year-olds now benefiting from full-day kindergarten at nearly 800 schools across the province this year. By next fall, nearly half of Ontario’s four- and five-year-olds will be in full-day kindergarten at approximately 1,700 schools, and by 2014, full-day kindergarten will be available for all Ontario’s kindergarten-eligible students. This gradual implementation has allowed municipalities, child care operators and communities to adjust to the changes this initiative brings.

In addition to the funding received through the grants for student needs, the Ministry of Education will provide up to $675 million in funding to school boards to support year three, reaching about 122,000 students. In total, this commitment is an allocation of just under $1.4 billion in capital funding to support the implementation of full-day kindergarten. As of this September, approximately 120,000 children in nearly 1,700 schools across the province will benefit from this new enriched, integrated full day of learning.

Depending on demand, some schools with full-day kindergarten programs have offered before- and after-school programs, run by the school boards, for on-site third-party child care providers. This flexibility allows boards to continue building on their strong relationships with local child care providers while offering integrated programs in one physical location that best serves the needs of students, families and communities. Having access to before- and after-school programming with teachers, as well as early childhood educators, has provided our children with opportunities to better prepare them for the more advanced learning that takes place in grade 1 and beyond.

These programs have given children a seamless day in one location, with continuous staffing, familiar faces and friends, and it’s a place where they feel safe and encouraged to learn and to play and to explore. Full-day kindergarten has also made life easier for Ontario’s families. Too many parents have to juggle their children’s schedules between school and child care while worrying about work and other responsibilities.

In addition to being more convenient for families, the long-term economic advantage of full-day learning will give Ontario a competitive edge in this global society. Parents are saving up to $6,500 per child in child care costs while their kids benefit from all-day learning. This initiative has also helped create more jobs for Ontarians and helped more Ontarians be able to accept jobs. At full implementation, there will be approximately 3,800 additional teaching positions and as many as 20,000 early childhood educator positions staffed to support full-day kindergarten.

Studies have shown that the return on public investment for young children is at least 7 to 1. A recent study conducted by Janette Pelletier, director of the Dr. Eric Jackman Institute of Child Study at the Ontario Institute for Studies in Education of the University of Toronto, highlighted the benefits of full-day kindergarten for children, for their parents and for full-day kindergarten staff. The study, based on preliminary year one findings in Peel region, where our local school boards are innovative and world-class, compared the experiences of almost 200 students enrolled in the full-day kindergarten program with those enrolled in regular half-day kindergarten classes.

Key findings found that full-day kindergarten students had greater early numeracy, language and reading and writing skills than those in regular kindergarten classes. The study also looked into the experiences of full-day kindergarten parents and how they felt the program benefited their children. Full-day kindergarten parents found that their children seemed more ready for social, academic and physical activities. They also reported a reduction in stress by having their children’s school and child care programs integrated at one physical location.

The study also reported that both teachers and early childhood educators felt that full-day kindergarten greatly benefited Ontario’s students, and they felt that their school community strongly supported them.

We have clearly seen the benefits of full-day kindergarten, and we will continue to monitor the program so that we can ensure that it continues to benefit Ontario’s students and their families.

Ontario is viewed across the globe as the leader in education excellence, and we must uphold that reputation. That’s why the implementation of full-day kindergarten in Ontario has been so important. Through initiatives such as full-day kindergarten, we will continue to build the best-educated workforce in the world.

Ontarians are proud of the choices our province has made: to protect the gains that we’ve made in education and to protect the classroom experience for our students. We have chosen smaller class sizes and protecting 20,000 teaching and support staff jobs, and we have chosen to continue to roll out full-day kindergarten. In challenging economic times, this government has proven its commitment to putting students first.

The proposed legislation would take effect on September 1 but provide, until December 31, 2012, for school boards, teachers and support staff to engage in local bargaining. This would allow boards and unions to reach local agreements while also including the parameters set out in the legislation.

As the start of the school year approaches, we have an obligation to assure Ontario parents that schools will start in September and continue uninterrupted by labour disputes. I ask my colleagues from all parties to keep Ontario students in mind and to support this government motion and also support the Putting Students First Act.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): The member from Nepean–Carleton.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: Thank you very much, Speaker. I look forward to addressing the assembly for the next hour on this motion.

You have to question the motive, first and foremost, of the government bringing this motion forward today, after we’ve been brought back early, to put kids in their classrooms. For example, we could actually be debating that bill today, the Putting Students First Act, Bill 115. The government chose not to do that.

I might say, to borrow a line from the leader of the third party, that Bill 115 and this motion is more about seats in the Legislature than it is about putting kids in the classroom.

I think, for anybody that watches this Legislature—and I don’t know why, after nine years of watching this Liberal government, anybody still would—but watching this assembly, one would suggest that this really is about trying to wedge a political party, namely our party, in a by-election that’s happening in Kitchener–Waterloo which they’re going to lose. The question is really: Why are we entertaining a motion on a bill that has been passed, on a program that has been implemented and on an issue that has been closed in this assembly? Why else would we be dealing with this motion if it weren’t for more nefarious reasons?

If the Liberals want to continue to talk about issues that we have felt were long past resolved, then I think it’s really important that we set the stage by talking a little about the fiscal situation in Ontario. We have to talk about how we fund our publicly funded education system. We have to talk about whether or not it is going to be sustainable in the long run.

Speaker, you and I have been in this chamber together for many years now—well, maybe not that many, but long enough—

Interjection: Two.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: Two terms. We may not always agree on philosophy or ideology or even issues or matters of the day. However, from time to time, you must agree with me, Speaker, that their motives are not always pure. They like to cover the fact that they have run the strongest economy in Confederation into the ground. The repercussions of that action and that continued action over nine long years are whether or not we’re going to be able to continue to afford the public institutions we all cherish.

We know, for example, that under the Liberal government’s watch they lost over 300,000 manufacturing jobs. Those manufacturing jobs would pay income taxes to the province of Ontario. They would buy from local stores in Ontario, and those tax dollars go directly into funding our cherished institutions. It’s quite simple, actually. It would be, as one of their heroines, Belinda Stronach, the great Liberal, would have said, baking a bigger economic pie. The reality, as you know full well, is that when we have more tax dollars contributing to our economy, not by raising taxes but by making sure more people are paying into the system, we’re able to sustain those core values.

Let me tell you something, Speaker: This is a government that is running record deficits, larger than every other single province combined, and they have the largest debt in the nation outside of the federal government, larger than every other province combined. The reality, as I would like to point out to the minister of Ornge—you remember that Ornge helicopter scandal? She should probably be focused on that right now. But the point I am trying to make, and it’s one that has been made by their own finance minister but I think they like to cover their ears, is that this debt and deficit require us to not only pay it back, but at high interest rates.

Now, you will be interested to know, Speaker, that the first, largest priority of spending in our province is in the Ministry of Health, with the minister of Ornge over there. The second is in the Ministry of Education. The third-largest spending priority of this Liberal government, according to Dwight Duncan, the finance minister, is servicing the debt and the deficits. That is larger than our training, colleges and universities ministry; it is larger than municipal affairs—all of those put together, every other ministry, outside of health care and education.

Now, I contend, and I’ve said it many times in this chamber, that every single dollar we spend on servicing the debt and the deficit that they continue to grow is one less dollar for kids in classrooms.

That takes me to a very important report that the Liberals had commissioned last year, due out right after the election, because these guys—oh, my goodness, Speaker, they are some crafty. They time everything. For example, they like to—

Ms. Tracy MacCharles: Point of order, Mr. Speaker.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Member from Pickering–Scarborough East.

Ms. Tracy MacCharles: I’m just suggesting perhaps that the same standard be applied here, pursuant to

section 23(

b) of the standing orders: that the nature of the discussion be focused on the debate at hand, which is full-day kindergarten, if I recall, Speaker.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): I thank the member for her point of order, but it will be up to me to determine whether she is drifting or not. If I think she is, I’ll let her know. Thank you.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: Thank you, Speaker. This directly relates to full-day kindergarten. Let me explain to the new member. I know she has been here less than a year, but this is how it works in this chamber. They spend the money and then there’s less for it in priorities. You know, when you’re spending $190 million on a power plant, when you shred $100 million at Ornge, or a billion bucks there, they don’t care, but it has implications.

So before this member was elected, her genius government decided they were going to commission a hand-picked economic adviser, the guy who brought in the HST, that $3-billion greedy HST tax grab. They asked Don Drummond to come back and write a report on the state of Ontario’s finances.

I’m going to read a couple of quotes just so the member understands, because something actually does pay for public services like public education; it’s called tax dollars, and we have a budget in Ontario. This is completely in line because it explains how we pay for one of the largest big-ticket items in this government.

This is what—and maybe she didn’t get a chance to read Don Drummond’s report, but on the executive

summary, page 3, I’ll read this to her: “Government debt”—

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): I would suggest that the member has dialogue through the Chair and not directly at the member.

And about her length of stay here, I don’t really think that applies to what we’re talking about in this motion, so I would suggest you negate that from your discussion.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: Thanks, Speaker.

I just would like to point out, however—before I finish my quote on a report that was commissioned before the last election when certain members weren’t already elected—that in relation to the decision on full-day kindergarten, that also occurred before many members arrived here after the 2011 election. Some members may need to be educated on the impact of the debt and deficit on public sector spending, so I will explain.

“Government debt can rise quickly if not headed off early…. The recent decision by Moody’s Investors Service to revise its outlook on” government “bonds from stable to negative is a danger sign.” Those aren’t my words; those are their hand-picked economic adviser’s words. Don Drummond said this about his own party.

He also said, “With the global recession hitting Ontario particularly hard, Ontario’s recent deficit … is poor; relative to GDP, it ran the biggest provincial deficits in the country for three consecutive years beginning in 2008-09; the current 2011-12 fiscal year is likely to add a fourth.” Again, those aren’t my words; those are their hand-picked economic adviser’s words—Don Drummond.

Don Drummond, of course, Speaker, as you know, wrote an entire report with recommendations, some of which I believe have been wholly and fully embraced by this Liberal regime that has been in power for nine years and that has put us into this poor fiscal state.

I’ve told you the economic background of the province. I’ve now told you the situation we are in relative to how we are paying off our debt and our deficit. I’m now bringing you to the point, Mr. Speaker, of what their own hand-picked economic adviser, Don Drummond, said to them. Of course, Don Drummond is the individual who convinced the Premier of Ontario and the Liberal finance minister, Dwight Duncan, to implement the HST after they promised no new taxes.

This is what he says in his report—and I’m going to read the entire thing into the record, because I think that some Liberals may have forgotten what Don Drummond’s direct advice to their Premier was. This is

chapter 6, “Elementary and Secondary Education,” page 213. Now, it is important that I stress and I emphasize one more time that these are not the Ontario Progressive Conservative caucus’s words, not Tim Hudak’s words—this is the Liberal Party of Ontario’s own hand-picked economic adviser’s words. That would be Don Drummond.

He says, “In recent years, the government has devoted significant attention and resources to early learning. In 2009, the government committed to implementing full-day learning for four- and five-year-olds with an investment of $200 million in 2010-11 and $300 million in 2011-12. Dr. Charles Pascal was appointed as the Premier’s special adviser on early learning, and was asked to provide recommendations for implementing a full-day early learning program.

“Dr. Pascal’s 2009 report, ‘With Our Best Future in Mind,’ recommended the development and implementation of a coherent approach to early childhood development and education, including FDK for four- and five-year-olds. Dr. Pascal also recommended before- and after-school programming for kindergarten students, funded through parent fees.” That’s an important distinction.

“In September 2010, FDK was launched in nearly 600 schools across Ontario. The rollout has continued in 2011 with an additional 200 schools, and about 900 new school sites have been announced for the 2012-13 school year. A framework for the extended-day component of the program has also been set; school boards offer the program either independently or through on-site third-party partners, in areas where there is enough demand.

“The commission”—this would be the commission hand-picked by the Premier of Ontario, Dalton McGuinty—“appreciates the research and analysis that was performed by Dr. Pascal. There is substantial evidence that investments in early childhood education produce significant socio-economic benefits in the long term. The Pascal report offers a plan that reduces gaps in child development policy, supports student achievement, and promotes better long-term economic, health and social outcomes.

“However, consideration must also be given to the demands placed on the education system by the program, and the resources required to meet these demands. Costs associated with new staff, classroom supplies, transportation, other school operations, capital and stabilization for the child care sector will result in a mature program expense of over $1.5 billion....”

Now, I will just stop for a moment to editorialize. I ask my colleagues in the third party and in the opposition and even in the government—$1.5 billion is a lot of money—can you imagine if there was no such thing as the cancelled Mississauga power plant, $190 million; if there was no such thing as the big scandal at eHealth, where we could have saved a billion dollars; and can you imagine if there was no scandal and they actually got it right at Ornge, our air ambulance service here in Ontario, and we didn’t waste a billion dollars? Do you know what that $3 billion could have brought Ontario students? I ask the government that question.

I will move forward on this, going back to the Drummond report, on the affordability of full-day kindergarten. “Given the current fiscal climate,” he says, “the commission”—and I remind them, it is their own hand-picked government commission—“is concerned that the timing is not appropriate for a new program with a cost of this magnitude. The costs of FDK were incorporated into the March 2011 budget and the 2011 Ontario Economic Outlook and Fiscal Review in November.” That’s why I think some members who may not have been elected before the 2011 election may need to review the Drummond report in its entirety to understand the fiscal mess the Liberal government got us into before that period.

I’ll go back: “The costs of FDK were incorporated into the March 2011 budget….” He goes on, “But as we have discussed elsewhere, not enough offsetting restraint was secured in other spending to ensure that these fiscal plans would achieve the overall deficit” reduction.

I’m going to read that one more time. You know, when I’m finished here, I think I may send this over to my honourable colleague, who is a little confused over the ability to fund certain programs here in Ontario.

Let me read this again: “But as we have discussed elsewhere, not enough offsetting restraint was secured in other spending to ensure that these fiscal plans would achieve the overall deficit objective.”

The commission—the hand-picked Liberal government Don Drummond commission—considered recommending the suspension of further implementation of the FDK program. What this is saying is that the Liberals’ own hand-picked economic adviser who brought us the $3-billion greedy HST cash grab is now telling his own government from his own party, his own pals, his own buddies, that they should suspend further implementation of the FDK program.

I know that this government brought this motion in today to divert attention from the $190-million cancellation of the Mississauga gas plant. I know they don’t want to talk about the Ornge fiasco—those hearings; the fact that they haven’t been able to move forward on bringing any accountability to light there. So they brought this motion here in order to try to wedge us and get us off our game. But I’m just going to continue to read from Don Drummond’s report, because Don Drummond was a member of the Liberal Party and is their hand-picked economic adviser. He says:

“The commission considered recommending the suspension of further implementation of the FDK program, with a progressive redistribution over time of the funded sites to communities with the lowest socio-economic status within each board. However, such an approach would create inequalities, and would pose additional challenges for families, schools, boards and government.”

If that’s not a big acknowledgement by their own hand-picked economic adviser that they bungled this file, I don’t know what is. But again, don’t take my word for it; take the commission’s word for it. Each member was presented with a copy of the commission. This is a product of the government of Ontario; it is from the Queen’s Printer for Ontario. This is a document prepared for members of the assembly. Each member of the assembly, including the Liberal government, should have the opportunity to do some free thinking on their own and should be allowed to read all of this document, not just the executive

summary, and not be told what to think.

Let’s go to the recommendations on page 214. I remind you: This is from the government’s own economic adviser. This is not from the PC Party’s policy adviser. These are not words from an elected official on the PC side. This is from the government. Recommendation 6-11:

“Given the difficulties with such an approach, and the prohibitive cost of the program overall at this time, the commission recommends the cancellation of the full-day kindergarten (FDK) program, without prejudice to schools that already had FDK before the introduction of this government strategy.

“The Ministry of Education should carefully develop phase-out provisions so that a child who had a full day in junior kindergarten would not move to a half day in senior kindergarten, and so that purpose-built spaces are appropriately utilized for child care.”

I’m not sure that this government quite understands the gravity of the recommendation their own adviser is making to them. They either are not aware that he made this recommendation or they’re ignoring his recommendation, or there’s another option: Perhaps they’re going to do it and they have a hidden agenda over there.

This is a road map by their own handpicked economic adviser. He recommends:

“Given the difficulties with such an approach and the prohibitive cost of the program overall at this time, the commission recommends the cancellation of the full-day kindergarten … program, without prejudice to schools that already had FDK before the introduction of this government strategy.”

That is what their own government has to say. Their government produced a report recommending the cancellation of full-day kindergarten.

That’s not the only recommendation. There is another recommendation by Don Drummond on full-day kindergarten, given the fiscal restraints the province has faced since this government has taken office. I need not remind you that over 300,000 good, well-paying manufacturing jobs have gone the way of the dodo bird because this government has not been able to manage the economy, manage energy prices or keep its government spending under control. So what has happened? Our debt and our deficit have dramatically increased. In addition, we’re starting to see our interest rate go beyond our ability to pay here in Ontario.

At the same time, they continue to spend without any regard for the consequences of what this will mean for public education.

Let’s get back to Don Drummond’s next recommendation. “If the government decides to continue the implementation of the full-day kindergarten program, then the commission recommends delaying full implementation from 2014-15 to 2017-18 and reducing program costs by adopting a more affordable staffing model, involving one teacher for about 20 students, rather than a teacher and an early childhood educator for 26 students, to help moderate salary expenditures for the program by about $200 million.” Of course, that is right here in the Don Drummond report. “The government should not confirm full implementation of the program without assurances from school boards, teacher federations and support staff unions that negotiated annual wage increases by 2017–18 will not be higher than the current trends in the broader public sector, and that the class size increases and reductions in non-teaching staff contemplated by the commission by 2017–18 will be achieved.”

He then gives them a second way, if you will, Speaker, another option in order to balance the books so that public education and programs like full-day kindergarten could be sustainable in the long term, but only once—in Don Drummond’s opinion—they get their fiscal house in order. I must admit I’m quite surprised that their own hand-picked economic adviser would turn on them this way. But, again, he says that if they continue to implement the full-day kindergarten program, then the commission recommends delaying full implementation.

I would just like to finish on page 214: “This approach would also help ease the oversupply of teachers in the labour market and reduce costs associated with correcting the current undersupply of ECEs.”

So, Speaker, there you have it. There has been criticism of their program. They like to say that it only comes from one side of the assembly. I’d like to point out that it comes from within their own ranks. I’d like to point out that there are people out there who are concerned by the size, the scope, that this government has created in our public service, and that there are people in Ontario who are concerned about our ability to pay.

In fact, Don Drummond, in what I find is a prophetic statement, talks about expenditures, and he talks about negotiated annual wage increases. This report was released, I believe, in January, or February, perhaps; it’s on the front page here. It was early 2012, in any event, Speaker. And here we are at an emergency recalling of the Legislative Assembly, given another teachers’ bill that I referenced earlier on, the Putting Students First Act, Bill 115.

We’re here to debate that because this government, for the first time in nine years, understood what Tim Hudak and what the PC caucus have been saying for a long time: You can’t keep spending without problems on the other end. Like Old Mother Hubbard, she has nothing left in her cupboard, and the reality is, we are in a really rough and difficult time here in Ontario.

So we’re here debating Bill 115. The Liberals decide to put this in as a distraction, because I’m sure that their plan hasn’t gone exactly the way they wanted it to. We recognized that they needed some help, that we needed to bail them out, we needed to make sure that they could get the kids in the classrooms come September, because here’s the thing: We can’t afford 5.5% increases in the government of Ontario anymore. We’re facing a $30-billion deficit. Don’t take my word for it; take Don Drummond’s. Their own economic adviser, their own numbers, say we’re facing a $30-billion deficit.

We cannot continue to spend like that without seeing absolutely terrible repercussions on front-line education.

So we’re here to deal with this legislated wage freeze. We believe, like Don Drummond says, that we have to deal with something throughout the entire broader public sector, and we have to ensure that we have a legislated wage freeze for the next two years. In the words of Tim Hudak, we believe that Bill 115 is half a loaf, but we’ve got to get that spending under control or we’re not going to be able to afford core, basic public services.

I’m talking about walking into a hospital and I’m talking about enrolling your child in school, because this government is on a course that will dramatically alter the course of our future in Ontario if they are not more responsible with how they pay our bills, how they pay our staff and how they invest in the future of the next generation.

I look at the young pages here, and I think to myself that they are going to get out of university with at least an $11,000 debt that they are going to be responsible for paying, as a result of taxes, to this government so we can continue to keep the lights on in Ontario. That is absolutely the case. Don Drummond acknowledges it. Their own hand-picked adviser had a meeting with them. I would say that this Don Drummond report is an intervention—it could probably be on A&E’s Intervention—and they chose not to listen. They’re spendaholics.

Then, when they can’t spend the money fast enough, they contract it out through their government boards, agencies and commissions and they tell their buddies, “Come on over. We’ll get you an appointment. We’ll ask you to spend a little bit of money.” I’m thinking of Chris Mazza here, Speaker. I’m thinking of Courtyard, over at the eHealth scandal. I’m thinking about all these names that have cropped up over the last few years.

There are a lot of stories to tell, but a lot more public money has been wasted. I envisage that Dwight Duncan must have this massive shredder right beside his desk, and when he gets bored, he takes $100 bills—no, wait $1,000 bills—and he just shreds them. I imagine that’s what he does, because how else can you explain the cancellation of a power plant by a campaign worker, not the minister, costing taxpayers $190 million? That money could have gone into full-day kindergarten—

Interjections.

Mr. Bob Delaney: Point of order?

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Point of order: The member from Mississauga–Streetsville.

Mr. Bob Delaney: Speaker, this has gone really over the top; not only is the member violating standing order 23 by imputing motive, but the member has also been significantly off the topic for some time.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Your point of order is taken into consideration. The member was getting very close to being reprimanded, so I would suggest that she stick to the motion. All these other sidelines can be overlooked for a certain amount of time, but I think you’re going back to the trough a few times.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: Thanks, Speaker.

Let me just say this—and I appreciate the intervention, because it reminds me that I do have an amendment to the government notice of motion number 45. This is really important, because it speaks to the concerns that we have in the official opposition of our ability to pay for government programs, including full-day kindergarten, while they’re wasting money at scandals like that $190-million power plant in Mississauga, close to his riding, like the Ornge scandal and like at eHealth and other places.

Speaker, I move that all the words following “on this basis” be deleted and the following be added: “to ensure the new cost of this program does not further increase Ontario’s structural deficit and lead to the tripling of Ontario’s debt, the House requires the government to ask the Auditor General to report on the program’s new costs and the ministry’s corresponding savings to pay for them to ensure that the Liberal government’s nine years of overspending do not jeopardize the things we care about, like front-line health care and classroom education.”

Speaker, you’ll recognize that this is very consistent with my speech, my concerns and the issues that our—

Interjection.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Ms. MacLeod has moved an amendment to government motion number 45. I’ll re-read the amendment.

“I move that all the words following ‘on this basis’ be deleted and the following be added: ‘to ensure the new cost of this program does not further increase Ontario’s structural deficit and lead to the tripling of Ontario’s debt, the House requires the government to ask the Auditor General to report on the program’s new costs and the ministry’s corresponding savings to pay for them to ensure that the Liberal government’s nine years of overspending do not jeopardize the things we care about, like front-line health care and classroom education.’”

Debate on the amendment to the motion, please.

Ms.

Lisa MacLeod: Thank you very much, Speaker, and I do appreciate you and the member from Mississauga–Streetsville reminding me of that critical amendment that I needed to put forward, because it is really important, now that I’m able to debate my amendment, to talk about the fiscal situation in Ontario, the devastating consequences as a result of their nine years of mismanagement and overspending, and their tax and increasing waste, because, as you know, the Don Drummond report wasn’t even—he was told, “You’re not allowed to bring in a tax increase.” That’s why he was talking about some of these interesting cuts, but Dalton McGuinty then—I must ask, and the NDP would know this: What was he paid a day?

You were asking questions about this—

Mr. Michael Prue: Fifteen hundred dollars a day.

Mr. Rosario Marchese: Yes, $1,500 a day.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): I would remind the member that she’s not going to talk to people directly. You go through the Chair, and you do turn around quite a bit. I would suggest you look this way. Thank you.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: Thank you, Speaker. I know they wanted to watch me.

My colleagues in the third party reminded me that the Liberal government paid Don Drummond $1,500 a day to make his recommendations on full-day kindergarten. They must value it, or they don’t value money.

Again, just so we’re all very clear, I would like to draw the attention of my colleagues opposite the motion that we put forward: “That, in the opinion of this House, full-day kindergarten is the single most important investment the government can make in the social and economic future of our children and, on this basis, to ensure the new cost of this program does not further increase Ontario’s structural deficit and lead to the tripling of Ontario’s debt, the House requires the government to ask the Auditor General to report on the program’s new costs and the ministry’s corresponding savings to pay for them to ensure that the Liberal government’s nine years of overspending does not jeopardize the things we care about, like front-line health and classroom care.”

Now, let’s go back to page 213 of Don Drummond’s report, where he talks about offsets. He talks about offsets as it pertains to full-day kindergarten.

All we’re doing today, Speaker, is asking them to follow the report they paid $1,500 a day to table. It was an expensive report with information from their own hand-picked economic adviser on the implementation of full-day kindergarten, which they have a motion on before the House today. Let’s go back to page 213, where Don Drummond—and I quote him one more time: “Given the current fiscal climate, the commission is concerned that the timing is not appropriate for a new program with a cost of this magnitude.

The costs of FDK were incorporated into the March 2011 budget and the 2011 Ontario economic outlook and fiscal review in November. But as we have discussed elsewhere”—and Speaker, again, these are not the words of the Ontario PC Party; these are the words of the Liberals’ own economic adviser, Don Drummond—“not enough offsetting restraint was secured in other spending to ensure that these fiscal plans would achieve the overall deficit objective.”

Speaker, if they won’t take their own advice, we will put it to them in the form of this amendment and talk about the offsets and talk about the fiscal accountability and talk about the reality of life in Ontario. They have for nine years spent us into debt and deficit and have tripled Ontario’s debt in a short decade. There are consequences to that type of spending. There are consequences to our public education system as a result of their mismanagement. That is why this masterpiece of a report that their own economic adviser gave to this assembly should be considered in this debate that the members opposite refuse to acknowledge.

They refuse to acknowledge the reality that we are facing in Ontario. If we are not at a crisis at this point, we sure will be soon. The tipping point will continue. We will continue to arrive at that tipping point if this government does not get its fiscal house in order. When they talk about putting students first, I ask them: Don’t you think giving them a solid financial house in Ontario is going to be just as important to ensure that they are not working for the rest of their lives paying off their debt and their deficit?

I ask them this question because I have a high-growth community, Nepean–Carleton. In fact, yesterday the riding was split in two by the federal boundaries commission. Growth is so high, we need new schools all the time, because there are basically people moving in—our former mayor is here. He understands the growth constraints that we have. We need to open new schools because there are so many kids coming into the community, being born in the community; my daughter is one of them.

There are just so many—we call Barrhaven “Babyhaven” because we’re all mothers and fathers and we all have two cars, or a car and a dog and a cat. The reality is, we’ve got kids in portables in brand new schools taking up the entire backyard playground of the school—a brand new school—because we can’t keep up with the growth and this government can’t keep up with funding requirements to the school boards.

Mr. John Yakabuski: So they play politics; they play politics.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: It’s so much easier for them to play politics. You know what we call it? I’m from Ottawa, as you know, Speaker. My husband works on Parliament Hill; I used to work on Parliament Hill, too. We used to have a term for what these guys are playing. It’s “smallitics.” Instead of dealing with the big issues of the day, instead of actually affirming that they’re on the wrong path and they can’t continue to afford programs, the reality is, they’re playing smallitics, little games.

They have already passed full-day kindergarten; it’s already in their budget. I’m going to be honest with you, Speaker. It’s not too hard to find, if they want to find it. Don Drummond even said they paid for it here—in 2014-15 it’s going to be paid for—and they put it in their 2011 budget and their 2011 Ontario economic outlook and fiscal review. So what they want to do is play politics.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Smallitics.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: They want to play smallitics. They want to have their cake and eat it too, because they’re in a by-election. They think they’re going to win a majority next week. Well, I can tell you something: If you want to talk about education and putting students first, there were 5,000 teachers out front yesterday who told them, “No way, José.

We’re not supporting you anymore.” They may not be supportive of our wage restraint message either, but I can tell you something: The teachers did not give me three back-to-back-to-back victories; the people of Nepean–Carleton gave me three back-to-back-to-back majority victories, the largest vote total in the province of Ontario. And the only person who had a higher percentage was my buddy John Yakabuski from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): I would remind the member that we all appreciate self-promotion, but I’m not quite sure that has anything to do with what we’re talking about. Thank you for those stats, and I congratulate you on your consecutive victories, but please stick to the issue.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: Thanks, Speaker. But it is important, because it points to the fact that I wasn’t beholden to special interest groups or unions to win an election, so I have clarity when it comes to the issues before us, particularly when they pertain to financial issues and making sure new schools are built.

My staff have sent over to me here that Mr. McGuinty is touring schools today to try to force them to agree to his—

Mr. John Yakabuski: Empty schools. He tours empty schools.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: Empty schools. If Mr. McGuinty goes to a school next week and there are actually children and teachers in a classroom, I will be shocked. He has done the summer tour of empty schools and classrooms. In fact, I went to one with him last week in his own riding of Ottawa South.

Speaker, I just want to go back, as we have amended this motion, to talk about what Don Drummond told them, to point out that we have some serious problems here in Ontario. If we’re going to triple Ontario’s debt and deficit as they have done in their short decade in office—a dark decade indeed—there are consequences.

Let me say what a direct consequence is. Longfields-Davidson Heights Secondary School, a school I was proud to be part of getting built, a school that I’m proud to continue to fight for, is a brand new school.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: Who built that school?

Mr. Rob E. Milligan: The taxpayers.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: The taxpayers built the school. I fought in this House for the school to be built. That school now has close to 20 portables in it. The kids are taking gym class in the halls, because the gym is now classrooms. That is how full that school is. This will be the first year in its five years in existence when there will actually be a grade 12 class. They were operating from 7 to 9, then 7 to 10, then 7 to 11. This will be the first year they’ll have 7 to 12.

That school will be expanding, busting out of its seams, and do you want to know what we hear from this government when those taxpaying parents are sending their kids to school? “There’s no money.” And then they bring a non-binding motion, a political smallitics motion to this assembly to influence the people of Kitchener–Waterloo—

Mr. Bob Delaney: Point of order.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Point of order, the member from Streetsville.

Mr. Bob Delaney: Speaker, the school board in Ottawa’s capital plan is not before the House. What is before the House is this particular motion, and I would remind the member of standing order 23(b), which instructs her to direct her speech to the matter at hand.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Once again, I thank the member for his point of order, but it will be my decision to the member whether I feel she has drifted from the situation. Thank you for your point of order. It has been taken under consideration.

Continue.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: I would like to actually have a page take over our amendment to show that this is in order, if you wouldn’t mind, to Mississauga–Streetsville’s finest over there. Maybe he can send back a note on why they spent $190 million cancelling a power plant at the expense of the students in his community and mine.

But, Speaker, I tell you this, and I say it emphatically: There are choices one must make when one is in government. They have not done that. The easiest choices have always been to add a new tax to Ontario students’ parents’ pockets. Now they bring forward this motion, which is offensive. They’ve passed this resolution. This is about smallitics. It has nothing to do with whether or not they’re going to proceed with full-day learning. It has nothing to do with whether or not they’re going to curb the cost of government. It has nothing to do with students in Ontario. It has everything to do with wedge politics.

I will tell you something, Speaker: If they want to start talking about students, let’s talk about the students in Longfields-Davidson Heights. Let’s talk about the students in Riverside South. Let’s talk about the students in Bells Corners. Let’s talk about the students in Lisa Thompson’s riding who are worried that they’re not going to have a community school in a rural riding because this government did not have the courage to make the tough decisions when they should have made the tough decisions.

Instead, they decided to saddle the students of the next generation so that they could pay the debt and the deficit, so that those students won’t have schools in rural communities like Huron–Bruce.

That is what they have done. They have tripled the size of the debt in this province. That debt alone is the third-largest spending priority of this government. Every single dollar spent to service that debt and deficit is one dollar taken away from the kids in Huron–Bruce, who do not have a rural school right now in one of their communities. That is what this government has done and that is why we emphatically, emphatically oppose the direction of this government. That is why we will continue to bail them out on their wage-freeze agenda, although it is not strong enough.

But we are going to stick to our principles, we are going to stick to our guns and we are going to read to them their own advice from their own hand-picked economic adviser, Don Drummond, who told them that they needed to make choices; they needed to make offsets.

That’s why we amended this silly little motion that is designed to do nothing more than waste the opposition’s time because they want to play politics, smallitics, and try to win a seat—a seat that they have to buy. It’s the second one this year they’ve tried to buy. This is shameful. If this were anywhere else in any other House in the entire country, I’m sure the RCMP or the OPP would be investigating it, because those are taxpayer dollars.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): The member is suggesting that there may have been some wrongdoing, that the police would have to be called in. The member will withdraw that statement.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: Thanks, Speaker. I apologize.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): You withdraw the statement.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: Withdrawn.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Thank you.

Mr. Robert Bailey: I wouldn’t have.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: One can certainly think it, however.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): I don’t need comments like that, that you “wouldn’t have,” because if you hadn’t, you would have been gone. Thank you.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: Thanks very much, Speaker.

I have about 14 minutes left in this debate—

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): You’ve got three minutes left.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: —three minutes left in this debate, Speaker, before we go into the calmer waters called question period. I’m looking forward to today’s questions, because it’s an opportunity to continue on the accountability exercise that we have just displayed here in this House today on behalf of the official opposition. We’ll be able to ask a lot of questions about why they’re blowing money at a Mississauga power plant. We’ll be able to ask questions about why Deb Matthews still has a job, for example, because the money that she’s blowing and wasting and not overseeing could be used for patients in hospitals. It could also be used, let’s be honest, for students in classrooms.

With the three minutes that I do have left, I’m just going to once again read Don Drummond’s recommendations.

Interjections.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: I just remind my colleagues that Don Drummond has serious concerns with this government. He’s one of their own, so it should be very difficult for them. But this is what he says: “Given the difficulties with such an approach, and the prohibitive cost of the program overall at this time, the commission”—

Interjection.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: Don Drummond, Bob Chiarelli’s buddy—“recommends cancellation of the full-day kindergarten … program, without prejudice to schools that already had FDK before the introduction of this … strategy.”

We paid $1,500 a day for that recommendation. They’re ignoring it.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): I’d like to thank the member.

Debate deemed adjourned.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): It being 10:15, this House is recessed till 10:30 this morning.

The House recessed from 1015 to 1030.

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

Ms. Sylvia Jones: It is my pleasure—I’m not sure it’s their pleasure, but it is my pleasure—to introduce my two children, Dawson and Jamie Gillies.

Mr. John Vanthof: It’s my pleasure to introduce the mayor of Englehart, Nina Wallace, as well as Brian Kelly and Shawn O’Donnell from the general chairpersons’ association.

Ms. Soo Wong: I’d like to welcome Jenny Peng, a former legislative page for the assembly, as well as a constituent of mine from Scarborough–Agincourt. Welcome back, Jenny.

Mr. John Yakabuski: I would like to introduce, in the west members’ gallery, one of my summer students, Terryn Peplinskie, who will be leaving at the end of August. This is an opportunity for a summer student to actually be in the Legislature when it’s in session, which is unusual. Welcome, Terryn.

Mr. Rob E. Milligan: It gives me great pleasure to introduce a special guest here this morning. Moriah Harrington-Gibbs is my summer intern, and she has come all the way from the great town of Cobourg to be with us this morning. Welcome, Moriah.

Mr. Jerry J. Ouellette: I’d like to introduce a real survivor friend of mine. He’s a retired CAW worker. He has survived multiple heart attacks, bypass surgery, is fighting his second bout of cancer and had two open brain surgeries. Join me in welcoming Mr. Bob Holdon.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Introduction of guests?

Mr. Mario Sergio: Mr. Speaker, if you insist, I’ll introduce my new seatmate here, the fantastic member from Scarborough East–Pickering.

ORAL QUESTIONS

SCHOOL BOARDS

Mr. Tim Hudak: My question is to the Premier. The current legislation before the House is going to pass. We want to make sure our kids are back in school on the very first day of school. They shouldn’t pay the price, nor should their parents, for your mishandling of this issue. The test is whether this was a conversion of convenience for you or if you’re actually going to get serious about reducing spending, reining in the size and cost of government.

Premier, on June 21 of this year, the Toronto Star revealed how much the Toronto District School Board was paying for things, like $143 to install a pencil sharpener while placing four screws. The union billed for 76 hours for four hours’ work to install an electrical outlet in a library, to the cost of $3,000 to the taxpayer. Premier, since this news came out in June, could you please tell us what you’ve done to fix this mess?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: I appreciate the question. Again, on behalf of Ontario students and parents and families generally, I thank my colleague for the support that he’s going to lend to us with respect to our bill, Putting Students First.

I do want to take the opportunity as well to celebrate yet another achievement inside publicly funded schools in Ontario. Today we’re proud to announce that our EQAO test scores have gone up yet again. In fact, since 2003 they’ve gone up 16 points. I want to give credit once again where credit is due, and that’s to students, parents, but especially teachers, and all those partners on the education team who work so hard day in and day out to put Ontario students first.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Supplementary?

Mr. Tim Hudak: I don’t think I got an answer from the Premier on this question, so let me try again. Premier, Bill 115 is going to pass. The question is, what comes next?

I had hoped that we had seen a crack in the door and that we could pry it open to get you back on the path of fiscal sanity, the kind of path that the PC caucus has laid out. So let me ask you again: We saw a week-plus of exposé about this odious practice of closed tendering, where one union gets all the contracts—guaranteed. Jimmy Hazel, head of the union, became a bit of a character around this place with a $143 pencil sharpener and $19,000 for a front-lawn school sign that should have cost one tenth of that.

Premier, I hope that the light switch did go on over there. Surely, you must have acted back in June and given direction to end this odious practice. Please tell me what you did in the last couple of months to fix this mess.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: My honourable colleague would know that the Minister of Education has spoken to this issue. He will also know that the Toronto District School Board has taken specific steps to address the issues that were raised.

But I think it is noteworthy, Speaker, that you don’t have to scratch the surface too much before my honourable colleague pursues his anti-union rant. That’s not an approach that we’re prepared to pursue. We think we’ve got a responsibility to find ways to bring people together to continue to make progress in our schools and in health care and in growing the economy.

So we will not be firing teachers and we will not be abandoning full-day kindergarten.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Supplementary.

Mr. Tim Hudak: Premier, this isn’t anti-union; it’s anti-corruption. It’s $3,000 to fix a light socket, $143 for a pencil sharpener and stories of kickbacks to the union bosses, who, by the way, helped out your Liberal candidates in the last campaign. Surely, you’ll rise above this. You will see the light of day that we need to actually get these costs under control and get the best deal for the taxpayer at the end of the day.

Premier, as you may know, the Greater Essex County District School Board is now forced to go to the courts to fight this mess. They’ve spent about $400,000 to date that could have gone to kids in the classrooms.

Surely, Premier, you will stand up and do the right thing and end this odious practice of closed tendering and special backroom deals, and allow the best contractor at the best price at the best quality to get the job for savings in the classroom—

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Thank you.

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Sit down, please.

Premier?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Speaker, we are not going to be taking over all Ontario school boards, which is the logical conclusion one would draw from the line of questioning—

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): You’ve asked the question. Once again I ask you to listen to the answer. You’ve been pretty good all week, but you’re starting very early today.

Premier.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: I will do my very best to keep the temperature down, Speaker.

I’m not prepared to take over all Ontario school boards. We have continuing confidence and faith—

Interjections.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: No, no; there’s a difference.

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Order.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: By way of information, Speaker, there’s a difference between one school board and all school boards. So I say again: We’re not prepared to take over all Ontario school boards. We continue to have faith and confidence in the people who work in our school boards. I think they’re becoming ever more mindful of our fiscal reality and of their responsibility to ensure that they’re mindful of taxpayer dollars. What we’re doing is our

part in this Legislature by moving ahead with our bill putting students first.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): New question.

SCHOOL BOARDS

Mr. Tim Hudak: Back to the Premier. The Premier said he’s not about to take over every school board in the province. Premier, you just did, in your failed negotiating process with the unions. I’ve never seen the like, Speaker, of somebody answering a question and then heckling themselves during the questioning. I didn’t think that was possible.

Premier, I know that you’re stumbling on this issue because I believe in your heart you know it’s wrong that the Jimmy Hazels of the world are controlling the purse strings. I think you believe in your heart that contracts should be awarded to the best quality and the best price to the taxpayer. I think, Premier, you know in your heart that it’s wrong for the Essex county district school board to have to pay $400,000—

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Excuse me. I said, “New question.” You’re leading into a similar question.

Mr. Tim Hudak: I tend to be consistent in my questions, Speaker. This is a question to the Premier. It is a question about spending in our public services.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Question.

Mr. Tim Hudak: Premier, $400,000 that could have gone to kids in our classrooms, special-needs kids, has now gone into court cases because you’ve failed to act. Surely, back in June you would have said this was wrong; you would have directed action to take place. A PC government would close the odious practice of closed tendering and the secret backroom deals. It’s the right thing to do.

Premier, can you demonstrate you’re actually serious about reining in costs? Stop the inaction, get out of your paralysis, do the right thing, and end this odious practice.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: I want to repeat some of the information provided by the Minister of Education earlier on the subject of the Toronto District School Board and the particular issue being raised by my colleague. It’s our expectation that boards make the best use of our public education dollars. The TDSB and all Ontario school boards are obligated to ensure that they’re getting the best value for the dollars they spend, in all circumstances.

As part of their budget deliberations, the TDSB has asked the province to assist the board in a review of their operation, and we agreed to provide this support. The scope of these reviews are based on a school board’s specific needs and are determined by the board. PWC, PricewaterhouseCoopers, will be conducting this review, and we understand that they will request that the review focus on facilities maintenance. We’re taking specific action in that particular matter.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Supplementary.

Mr. Tim Hudak: Some of the students in the classes who will be $400,000 short because of your inaction would describe that answer as rather lame, Premier. Get to the core of the issue: End this odious practice of closed tendering. It just seems wrong. I know taxpayers in their guts say you shouldn’t hand over the same contract to the same public sector union year after year, no matter what the quality of service, no matter what the price, especially when you see this kind of abuse and arrogance in the system.

Premier, we had hoped that you had seen the light of day. At least bring in a partial wage freeze. You’re adopting part of the PC plan, but surely you need to go farther to make sure we get every dollar we can in savings to invest in the classroom, to balance the books. Please tell me why you’re backing the Jimmy Hazels of the world, why you refuse to act, why the Essex county board has to spend this money. Will you do the right thing? Open the tendering so you get the best quality for the students in the classrooms and pass on savings to the taxpayers who pay the bills.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: My honourable colleague says he stands for students in the classroom. He would pull the rug out from under 250,000 four- and five-year-olds by abandoning full-day kindergarten, so he can’t stand there and tell us he’s for students. He would fire 10,000 Ontario teachers in order to increase class sizes, so he can’t stand there and tell us he’s in favour of Ontario students.

We’re very much aware of their record. Strikes were commonplace in this province. Academic performance suffered in this province. We have dramatically turned things around by working with our teachers, working with students, working with parents. We’ll put our schools up against any schools on this planet.

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Sit down, please. Order.

Interjection.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The member from Pembroke–Nipissing–Renfrew, could you just keep your voice down a little?

Supplementary.

Mr. Tim Hudak: It’s a shame the Premier continues to look the other way when there are questions of abject corruption in the handing out of contracts, kickbacks and the hundreds of dollars that went to individual union members who helped out on campaigns.

This is a question of doing the right thing, making changes. If the Premier were actually serious about reining in the size and cost of government, he would end this odious practice, he’d close the loophole where 98% of bureaucrats got bonuses last year when their wages were supposed to be frozen, and he would bring in an across-the-board public sector wage freeze.

Premier, can you please demonstrate that you’re serious? Will you at least agree to an across-the-board freeze on spending and bring in an economic statement soon that will actually reduce the size and cost of government and fix this kind of corruption that you’re turning a blind eye to?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: We have a decidedly different approach when it comes to managing our fiscal challenge. We believe we should be protecting education, we should be protecting health care, we should be protecting children and our social services, and our budget reflects that. At the same time, Speaker, we said that we were committed to achieving our fiscal objectives, and we will do so.

We reject the approach that they promote, Speaker. They would fire thousands of teachers; we reject that. They would abandon full-day kindergarten. They would fire thousands of educational support workers, who are powerful contributors to the success of our students in our schools. That’s a decidedly different approach, Speaker. It lacks balance. It lacks coherence. It lacks a synchronicity with Ontario values shared by Ontario families. They want us to protect our schools; we’re going to do that. They want us to protect our health care; we’re going to do that. They want us to eliminate the deficit, and we’ll do that, too.

TEACHERS’ CONTRACTS

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is to the Premier. Just a few weeks ago, Liberal MPPs voted to defeat a Conservative bill that would impose solutions and violate Canada’s Constitution. Can the Premier tell us today, Speaker, what advice he has received from his own caucus regarding his new plan to do exactly the same thing?

Interjection.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Would the member for Northumberland–Quinte West come to order, please.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Over 5,000 people have been to Ontario from around the world to come and see how we do education so well. So I’d begin by asking my honourable colleague to acknowledge the success that we’ve made in our schools and how much of that, Speaker, is attributable to hard-working Ontario teachers.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Yesterday, at least one Liberal MPP made a point of distancing himself from the government’s plan and indicated that he wasn’t sure whether or not he could support it. It’s not surprising, Speaker. The Premier himself has noted that this sort of simplistic, reckless plan is likely to be thrown out by the courts and cost us hundreds of millions of dollars.

Is the Premier willing to give his MPPs a free vote, or does he plan to force them to support his simplistic, unconstitutional legislation?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Speaker, my honourable colleague is nothing if not proficient in raising issues related to process. Process is important. I’m very confident we’re doing everything that we need to do to ensure that our legislation is, in fact, constitutional.

But here’s where we really

part company. My honourable colleague believes that we can afford to give teachers a pay raise at this point in time. I don’t believe that we can do that. I think we’ve got to make a difficult choice, and that choice is to protect the progress that we’ve made in our classrooms and to continue to roll out full-day kindergarten. That’s an important distinction between that party and this government.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Speaker, everybody in Ontario, including the Premier, knows that pay freezes have already been agreed to by the teachers. Everybody knows that the Premier’s plan has everything to do with winning by-elections and nothing to do with helping kids in the classroom. Even the Premier’s own MPPs are tired of seeing him play politics with our kids. When is he going to stop focusing on by-election politics and start focusing on real solutions for this province?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Speaker, again, in terms of reality, I think we should acknowledge the real progress that we have made in our schools. We’ve built 570 new schools. I think it’s important to remember that the PCs closed 500. We’ve invested in 27,000 school renewal projects. We’ve hired more than 13,000 more teachers and more than 10,000 educational support workers. We’re investing in full-day kindergarten. We’ve invested in smaller classes. It’s paying off for families and for students in particular. Test scores are way up. Graduation rates are way up. We’ve got more young people going on to college, university and apprenticeships than ever before.

I take issue with my honourable colleague. The fact of the matter is, Ontario schools are working, and they’re working for Ontario students.

GOVERNMENT’S AGENDA

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My next question is to the Premier. There are real challenges that are facing Ontario families, and the government has made it pretty clear that they’re more concerned about themselves.

First, they recalled the Legislature in a desperate attempt to create a crisis in our schools. Then this morning they forced a debate on full-day kindergarten, a program that isn’t even at risk, a program that’s not even at risk of being at risk.

When is the Premier going to stop focusing on his own desperate attempts to win majority power and start focusing on the real challenges that we have been sent here to deal with?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: My honourable colleague may be uninterested in full-day kindergarten, but I would encourage her to talk to Ontario parents, especially parents of—

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): I would urge everybody to be a little softer because I’m having difficulty hearing the person asking the question and also the person giving the answer.

Premier.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Speaker, the single most popular initiative that has been introduced into publicly funded education in the last 25 years is full-day kindergarten. It’s very important to young families; it’s very important to parents of younger children. Leaving aside the fact it saves a family $6,500 in child care costs on an annual basis per child, it lays a powerful foundation for learning throughout school.

It means a child is more likely to do well at school, to finish high school, to go on to college, university or apprenticeship, get a good job, earn a good living and pass on that standard to their own family. That all starts in the early years. That’s why we’re so committed to full-day kindergarten.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: New Democrats are glad that the Liberals finally took our advice on all-day learning in the province of Ontario. But if the Premier needs an update on the other challenges that are facing families—

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Stop the clock. I am not getting through to all of you, so from here on in, I’m going to give you the last warning if I single you out, because I’m having real difficulty hearing the question and I also have people on the side of me complaining about the language being used.

Carry on.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: If the Premier needs an update on the challenges that are facing families, we can provide one. A new report today indicates that nearly half of Ontario families are seeing their family household incomes stagnating or in fact declining. Households in Ontario are paying more for health care user fees, for classroom fees and tuition fees than any households in the rest of Canada.

When will the Premier start looking at these kinds of challenges and stop trying to create a crisis to win by-elections?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Returning to the original subject of full-day kindergarten, I will say to my honourable colleague that when we first introduced that by way of a budget, they voted against that budget. When we introduced a measure in our most recent budget to expand full-day kindergarten, they wouldn’t vote for or against it.

When it comes to household costs, we are sensitive to that issue; it is real and it is pressing. Again, full-day kindergarten saves a family $6,500 per child on an annual basis. We’ve also introduced the Ontario child benefit, the only program of its kind in Canada, which is providing a family with $1,100 per child. Then there’s our tuition grant. This year, it will save a university student $1,600 and a college student $800.

So the truth is, we are mindful of cost concerns in our families and we are reaching out to them with our initiatives.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Yes, Speaker, it’s true: New Democrats don’t support Liberal budgets that leave families falling behind in this province. New Democrats are ready to get to work on the challenges that are actually facing the people of this province. We want to see the Legislature focus on creating good jobs, for example; improving our health care system; and helping families recover from very tough times. Instead, we have a government that’s happy to watch families fall behind while they focus on themselves and their drive for a majority government.

The Premier has brought us here two weeks early. When is he going to stop playing politics himself and start working on the challenges that families in this province are facing?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: I think if there’s one dream shared by all our families, it is that the children will do well, that they will find success, that they will find opportunity, that they will become the very best that they can be, and that we build that opportunity, we build the foundation for those dreams, inside Ontario’s publicly funded schools.

So if my honourable colleague had the genuine concern—and I believe she does—about families and their hopes and aspirations, then I’m sure she will want to continue to support our measures that will continue to expand full-day kindergarten until finally it’s available in all of our elementary schools to ensure that we reach out to all 250,000 four- and five-year-olds in Ontario, so we’re building that foundation for success and we can do it in keeping with the hopes and dreams shared by all parents.

AIR AMBULANCE SERVICE

Mr. Frank Klees: My question is to the Premier. This morning at 9 a.m., the public accounts committee investigating the Ornge scandal convened. Last week, that same committee issued a formal request to the Premier to appear as a witness. At 9 a.m. this morning, the Premier, who had refused to appear at the committee, hosted a photo op with the press gallery at an empty school.

On the eve of the appearance of Chris Mazza, here’s what the Premier said: “I know our committee members have a lot of questions. They are interested in putting questions to Dr. Mazza, and I think it’s an opportunity for us to get to the bottom of a lot of things, which, but for his testimony, would be very difficult for us to ascertain.”

Speaker, the Premier was right. We had a lot of questions for Chris Mazza, but we also have a lot of questions for the Premier. The committee wants to hear from the Premier. The public wants to hear from the Premier. Why is he refusing to appear at the committee? What is he hiding and who is he protecting?

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Order. Sit down, please.

Premier.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: What my honourable colleague dismisses in terms of my appearance this morning with the media was in fact an opportunity for the media to put questions to me on Ornge and any other matter, as they in fact did.

I appear in this House on a regular basis. If my honourable colleague has a question related to Ornge, I would encourage him to ask yet another question on the subject matter of Ornge to me in this House.

Having said that, my colleague the Minister of Health has appeared before the committee on three separate occasions. She has specific responsibility for the portfolio and this issue, but again I say to my honourable colleague: If he has questions related to Ornge, I’m here today and he should put the questions to me.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The member for Newmarket–Aurora.

Mr. Frank Klees: My question to the Premier is very simple: Why do you refuse to appear at the committee? We’re asking for one hour of your time where you can ask and answer the questions that we have for you.

The Premier has refused to answer questions about Ornge in this House on numerous occasions. He now joins the company of Dr. Chris Mazza. Only two people in this province have refused to appear at the committee: Chris Mazza and the Premier. The difference is that we could compel Chris Mazza with a Speaker’s warrant. The Premier knows that he is immune because he’s the Premier.

I’m going to ask him a very simple question. What are you hiding? Who are you protecting? Why do you not want to appear at our committee?

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Order, please. Sit down. Can I have everyone seated?

Premier.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Speaker, I think it’s important to recognize that there is a difference between myself and Dr. Mazza in terms of our appearance, in terms of our availability for questions. He doesn’t appear in this Legislature on a regular basis for question period; I do.

There are just under 34 minutes left in this question period, Speaker. I encourage my honourable colleague, if he’s got a question, to put the question to me.

I think what is more important here is, it’s time for the committee to come forward with some positive, substantive recommendations so that we can act on those, and, together with Bill 50,

An Act to amend the Ambulance Act with respect to air ambulance services, we can move forward and do what is required under the public interest.

COMMITTEE WITNESSES

M me France Gélinas: Ma question est pour la ministre de la Santé et des Soins de longue durée. A recent witness at the public accounts committee on Ornge was suspended almost immediately following his testimony. The details of his suspension are shaky at best. The protection of witnesses is vital to uncovering what went wrong at Ornge so we can learn and move forward.

Given all of this, did the Minister of Health ask Ornge to provide details or justification for this suspension?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I have been assured that this human resources issue had nothing to do with the appearance before the committee. In fact, we have had several staff members of Ornge appearing before the committee. I believe that this morning we will have yet another Ornge pilot appearing before the committee.

I think it’s important that people at Ornge have that opportunity to speak, but what I also think is important is that we move forward. The committee has met for 81 hours; there have been 56 witnesses. I think it’s time for the committee to stop playing politics and start being part of the solution when it comes to Ornge. We must get Bill 50 passed. We must get the recommendations of the committee, and I really do hope that if the members opposite are sincere in their determination to do what’s right for Ontarians, they will do exactly that.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Supplementary.

M me France Gélinas: I wish I could take the minister at her word when she says she has been assured, but we have been assured of many things about Ornge and none of them turned out to be true. If it’s true that things have changed at Ornge, but we hear witnesses saying that they’ve been intimidated, it brings all of it into question that maybe the changes are not really changes. When my colleagues and I heard about the suspension, automatically the alarm bells went on.

My question is simple. Did this suspension also raise alarm bells for this government and for this minister and, if so, what have they done to ensure that the committee can carry on its work unhindered?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: As I say, I think it’s important that if there are any people at Ornge who want to be part of this process, we welcome that. In fact, we’ve had letters from dozens of Ornge pilots who support the actions this government has taken. The voice of that front-line staff at Ornge is vitally important to me.

What we need to do now is, we need the committee to come forward with their recommendations. We need the Legislature to pass Bill 50. We’ve seen significant progress at Ornge, but we haven’t finished the job yet. We need the support of all members of this Legislature to do what needs to be done at Ornge. Pass Bill 50. Get the recommendations from the committee.

WATER SUPPLY

Mrs. Liz Sandals: My question is to the Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs. In my riding of Guelph and across southern Ontario this summer there has been a lot of hot weather, very little rain. In fact, when the Premier visited Guelph in July, there was considerable media coverage of the dry weather’s impact on agriculture in southwestern Ontario and the impacts on yields of corn and soybean crops especially, as well as a concern about the availability of livestock forage.

Minister, can you, through the Speaker, inform this House of the steps you’ve taken to assist farmers in this very difficult dry growing season?

Hon. Ted McMeekin: Mr. Speaker, I want to begin by thanking the member for the question. I’ve seen the effects of weather throughout the summer, and I want to thank all of the farmers who took time to show me the difficulties they were experiencing.

We’ve asked the federal government to work with us to assess if relief is appropriate under the AgriRecovery program, which is a federal-provincial program.

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The member for Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke: Come to order, please.

Hon. Ted McMeekin: While the AgriRecovery assessment is ongoing, interim payments—

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The member for Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke, this is my last warning to you because you’re totally ignoring me.

Minister.

Mr. Ted McMeekin: Interim payments under our existing programs, agri-stability and production insurance, are available for producers who are experiencing financial distress.

We also asked the federal government to accelerate their review of prescribed drought regions, and I’m thankful they have done that. That came out yesterday. That will help farmers, through some tax credits, if they have to cull some of their livestock. That tax is spread out over a number of years.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Thank you.

Hon. Ted McMeekin: We’ve also insured farmers in these—

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Thank you. Supplementary.

Mrs. Liz Sandals: Thank you, Minister. My supplemental is for the Minister of Natural Resources. Minister, water is always a hot topic in Guelph, because we are dependent on groundwater. The hot, dry conditions that we’ve seen this summer have caused significant concerns for my constituents about their water supply.

Minister McMeekin has already shared with this House the many things his ministry has done for farmers. I know that your ministry, in partnership with conservation authorities, plays a significant role in monitoring our province’s water levels and the water supply within local communities.

Speaker, through you to the minister: Can you please tell the members of this House what your ministry is doing to monitor the current low-water situation in Guelph and across much of the province?

Hon. Michael Gravelle: Thanks again to the member from Guelph for asking this very important question. Certainly, our government understands that the hot, dry weather across the province has had a profound impact on our farmers and the economy. My colleague the Minister of Agriculture and I have had a number of conversations over the summer, and frankly I think we should—

Interjection.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The member for Northumberland–Quinte West, this is your last warning.

Hon. Michael Gravelle: —applaud Minister McMeekin for his persistence and for his advocacy on behalf of Ontario farmers.

Certainly, our Ministry of Natural Resources does play an important role in providing up-to-date and immediate information to conservation authorities, to municipalities and to our local partners regarding ever-changing water levels in our area watersheds. We share the concerns expressed by a number of conservation authorities about prolonged lower-than-normal water levels in some of our lakes and rivers. That’s why, through our low-water response teams, we’re working very closely with them to encourage voluntary reduction in water use.

We are continuing to monitor water levels on a daily basis in order to support those community efforts, and we’ll be working closely with all of our partners, obviously including the Ministry of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs—

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Thank you. New question.

AIR AMBULANCE SERVICE

Mr. John Yakabuski: My question is for the Premier. It’s good to have hung around for it, too.

For months now, the public accounts committee has been trying to get to the bottom of exactly how your government allowed the mess at Ornge to happen. The committee has heard how former Liberal Party president Alf Apps lobbied on behalf of Ornge and arranged for Chris Mazza to brief you on what he was up to. But you have refused to appear before the committee to explain what you knew about the developing scandal at Ornge. You claimed in this House that you’ve met Chris Mazza maybe once. In committee, Mazza said that he had multiple meetings with you. Someone’s not telling the truth.

Why won’t you agree to testify to the committee and put on the record exactly what you knew and when you knew it?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Speaker, I’m pleased to receive the question, and I’m pleased to answer it yet again. To the very best of my recollection, I met Dr. Mazza on one occasion only. That was in Sudbury in the context of an emergency response plan. It may have been that I met Dr. Mazza in the course of a—

Interjections.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: —as I have previously said in this House, as I have previously said in this Legislature, at a fundraiser. Speaker, I meet thousands and thousands of people during the course of a year, some at fundraisers and some at political events of another nature. That is, to the very best of my understanding and recollection, my connection with Dr. Mazza.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Supplementary.

Mr. John Yakabuski: I don’t know, Premier. Perhaps you bumped into Chris Mazza at your photo op at the empty school this morning. I don’t know. But if you have nothing to hide, then why won’t you testify?

That committee compels you to testify under oath. The citizens of Ontario have the right to know what you knew, when you knew it, and the details of any discussions you had with Chris Mazza. You have a duty to testify so that the public can be assured that the failures of your government that allowed this scandal to happen will not be repeated. Or are you afraid of reminding them of your government’s dismal record on this issue?

Is your refusal to testify yet another cynical attempt to try to influence the by-elections in Kitchener–Waterloo and Vaughan, or is it, Premier, that your testimony under oath to that committee would leave you with no option but to call for the resignation of your Minister of Health?

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Order, please. Sit down.

I would ask the member to withdraw his statement where he’s imputing motive to the Premier, please.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Withdraw.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Thank you.

Premier.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: There is a real issue associated with Ornge, and we acknowledge that in government. Speaker, we have accepted that there was a failure on our part to bring the necessary oversight to bear. We want to put in place the necessary measures to correct that going forward. We have a bill, Bill 50. It’s called

An Act to amend the Ambulance Act with respect to air ambulance services. That’s been delayed by my honourable colleagues in the opposition for five months now.

We would ask that the committee, sooner rather than later, complete its work. It has heard from 54 witnesses. It has sat for 16 days. It has worked for 75 hours. We would be most grateful—and I say this sincerely, Speaker—to receive substantive recommendations from the committee members so that we can take any additional steps that are necessary to protect the public interest.

I say to my honourable colleagues once again: Get that work completed; help us move ahead with Bill 50, and let’s do what we need to do to protect the public interest.

ONTARIO NORTHLAND

TRANSPORTATION COMMISSION

Mr. John Vanthof: My question is to the Premier. As we all know, the Northlander passenger train will be cancelled on September 28 through a decision of your government. Northern mayors continue to call on you to honour your pledge to keep Ontario Northland in public hands. Today, Alice Murphy, mayor of the township of Muskoka Lakes, has joined her northern colleagues in urging your government to enhance northern passenger train service instead of cancelling it. Her reason: The Northlander could be a vital link in the provincial strategy to lessen gridlock on the 400 to cottage country and beyond.

Premier, will you listen to the people across Ontario and announce that you are changing your plan to cancel the Northlander and give us time to use it as a tool to help the province?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: To the Minister of Northern Development and Mines.

Hon. Rick Bartolucci: We will continue to listen to the people of Ontario, as we have in the past. The people of Ontario told us that we have to get our fiscal house in order in order to invest in health care and in education. The people of Ontario told us that a $400 subsidy per ride on the Northlander is not sustainable or acceptable. The people from northern Ontario and the people from Ontario have told us that we have to make changes to ensure that we’re able to fund the priorities that they sent us to govern for, and we will be doing that.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Supplementary?

Mr. John Vanthof: My question is again to the Premier. That is exactly the point that Mayor Murphy was making. No one’s asking for the status quo here, but you’ve got a rail line running along the 400; on the weekends, the 400 is a parking lot. All she’s asking, all we’re all asking—one change would make a huge difference: We change it from a day train to a night train; then people could go on the Northlander to their cottage and back, and get off the highway. That’s not rocket science, but no one’s looking. We are all looking for ways to save money.

Once again, are we really going to—

Interjections.

Mr. John Vanthof: Regarding consultation, northerners want to talk before decisions are made, not after.

Once again, Premier, will you reconsider, look at the whole picture and see if we can use that to lessen the financial burden on all Ontarians?

Hon. Rick Bartolucci: The member should know that the night train was tried a long time ago. It was cancelled by a previous government because it didn’t have the ridership to have it continue. Clearly we have had, over the course of the last nine years, $430 million invested in trying to make the ONTC a viable operation. The reality is, we’re looking at decreasing revenues, increasing costs, a $100-million subsidy this year. That’s no longer affordable. The people of Ontario have told us quite clearly, “We want you to invest in the priorities,” those priorities—

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Answer.

Hon. Rick Bartolucci: —that they sent us here to govern: health care and education.

We’re divesting. We’re allowing the private sector to come and put their footprint in northern Ontario to help provide a sustainable, an efficient and an effective transportation system not only for now, but also in the future.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Thank you very much. Next question. The member for Peterborough.

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The total disrespect being shown today to finish question period is really not appreciated. Some of you are carrying on no matter what I say to you. Please.

The member for Peterborough.

RENEWABLE ENERGY

Mr. Jeff Leal: I think my mother-in-law’s watching this morning.

My question is to the Minister of Energy. Minister, since the launch of the Green Energy Act in 2009, Ontario has become a global leader in green energy initiatives. We all know that through the introduction of the act, our government has cleaned up the air we breathe and is on track to eliminate the use of dirty coal in our energy supply mix by 2014.

I understand that the Minister of Energy conducted the scheduled two-year review of the FIT program. Since the introduction of the program, I’ve seen the implementation of clean, renewable energy across Ontario and the jobs and investment that have come along with it.

Minister, could you please share with this House some of the successes of the Green Energy Act and the FIT/microFIT program thus far?

Hon. Christopher Bentley: The member from Peterborough, I know, is very interested in the workings of the Green Energy Act. We were actually up in his community touring a solar farm and speaking with the head of the Ontario Waterpower Association, Paul Norris, about some possibilities.

We did bring in the Green Energy Act to accelerate getting out of coal. That’s best for the health of Ontarians, because burning coal creates dirty air. That makes people sick. It was costing us $4 billion a year on the tax base to pay for those illnesses. So we’re getting out of coal by the end of 2014.

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The member for Prince Edward–Hastings, if you’re going to heckle, you have to sit in your seat.

Hon. Christopher Bentley: The Green Energy Act has allowed us to create already over 20,000 jobs in the province of Ontario, over $27 billion worth of investments, and it is a vibrant industry that’s already exporting around the world, working with the Ministry of Economic Development and Trade.

Interjection.

Hon. Christopher Bentley: What the review—and I’ll speak to that in a moment—has enabled us to do is to strengthen the approach, solidify the jobs here in Ontario, and provide further opportunities to accelerate getting out of coal, bring on new jobs, attract new investment and protect the health of Ontarians.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Supplementary?

Mr. Jeff Leal: I know that my constituents would be pleased to hear about our government’s continued commitment to a strong green economy. Many businesses and families awaited the results of the FIT review and subsequent rules to see what the future of the program will entail for all Ontarians.

I’m aware that some of these goals and new program changes are to increase what I consider very important community participation and make the application process move forward more efficiently so that the success of the program can continue well into the future. Minister, can you please highlight some of the new rules and changes to the program and how they will affect Ontario families and indeed businesses?

Hon. Christopher Bentley: It’s an important point, because when we conducted the review, we heard from over 3,100 Ontarians: families, businesses, associations, including from my colleague the member from Peterborough, who is interested in the solar and the water power issues. He’ll be pleased to know that there are still strong opportunities for water power in the new review.

What’s the result? Prices are down. The rules are posted. The small microFIT program is accepting applications. We’ve increased community participation priority and increased municipal participation priority, meaning that where a community participates and municipalities approve, they’re more likely to get the project. We’ve placed it on a sustainable footing so we can continue to clean the air, attract investment and provide jobs here in the province of Ontario.

AIR AMBULANCE SERVICE

Mr. Toby Barrett: To the Premier: The public accounts committee has now spent months investigating the Ornge air ambulance scandal, a scandal that has seen hundreds of millions of taxpayers’ dollars misappropriated, has seen the safety of patients put at risk, all on your watch, Premier. Public accounts has received and assembled thousands of pages of evidence and background materials. We’ve sat for 16 days. We’ve heard from over 50 witnesses. We’ve tabled thousands of questions.

The lack of proper administration, accountability and oversight by your government is appalling. But one piece of the puzzle remains missing: Premier, when will you be able to free up your

schedule to come before public accounts?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Here I am yet again. I’m prepared to take questions, but there was not a question in that supposed question.

My honourable colleague is in fact making the argument for us. The committee has collected thousands of pages of evidence. To date, they’ve heard from 54 witnesses. They’ve expended 16 days, 75 hours. The work has been nothing if not thorough and exhaustive. I think we are fast approaching a point in time where it serves the public interest—not the partisan interests of my colleagues opposite—that we receive recommendations, substantive in nature, that we could then act on.

I am genuinely interested in learning what it is that we might do and learn from this experience by receiving recommendations that we can adopt not only insofar as the Ornge matter is concerned, Speaker, but more broadly in terms of how we deal with our agencies, boards and commissions.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Supplementary.

Mr. Toby Barrett: Public accounts has heard testimony from Mr. Alfred Apps, a former Liberal Party president, and has the following email from Alf Apps written in 2007: “Last nite worked perfectly. Chris was able to make a real connection with the Premier, and to lay out the success story of Ornge at a high level in a way that provides”—

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The Minister of Energy, I called upon you twice and you totally ignored me. Would you please come to order? This is my last warning.

Mr. Toby Barrett: I’ll just finish the quote: “... the success story … at a high level in a way that provides the groundwork for our entire initiative.”

Premier, did your night with Chris Mazza, CEO of Ornge, work perfectly? Is it true Chris Mazza was able to make a real connection with you? Did he lay out the success story of Ornge for your perusal? Did this night provide the groundwork for the entire initiative?

Premier, you couldn’t attend previously because of a cabinet meeting. Will you now attend public accounts—

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Thank you very much. Premier, answer?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: In addition to our genuine interest in any substantive recommendations that might come forward from the committee’s important work, we ask ourselves: Why is it the opposition has delayed passage of Bill 50,

An Act to amend the Ambulance Act with respect to air ambulance services. Why have they delayed its passage for five months thus far? That’s a long time.

They say that they are interested in moving ahead with the Ornge matter. They’re interested in learning whatever lessons that we might. They’re interested in ensuring that we put in place new measures to ensure that that kind of thing is not repeated. Insofar as all that is concerned, I am onside. But I think, at this point in time, it’s time for us to receive recommendations from the committee’s work, and it’s time for us to move forward with Bill 50 together.

HEALTH CARE

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is for the Premier. There are 20,000 families in Kitchener-Waterloo who can’t find a family doctor. But it goes far beyond family doctors, Speaker. Kitchener-Waterloo is facing a shortage of psychiatrists. In fact, the Waterloo Record just featured the story this week.

New Democrats have a plan to get more doctors into underserviced communities. Will this government actually work with New Democrats on our ideas to bring more doctors to underserviced areas like Kitchener-Waterloo?

Interjection.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The member for Peterborough, come to order, please.

Premier.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: To the Minister of Health.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Thank you very much for the question. Of course, all of us are interested in improving access to health care, and we have made some tremendous success.

I’m sure the member opposite, the leader of the third party, would like to actually celebrate and acknowledge the fact that we now have 134 more physicians working in Waterloo region. That’s a 22.3% increase in doctors since we were elected in 2003. We’re also very proud of the fact that 96% of residents in Waterloo region do have access to a family doctor. We have made tremendous progress.

Speaker, that’s not the only thing that’s happening in Kitchener-Waterloo when it comes to improving health care. We’ve made dramatic improvements in bringing down wait times. Hip replacement wait times have been cut in half, knee replacement wait times are 62% lower, and waits for CT scans are down by 44%.

Things are so much better in Kitchener-Waterloo now, when it comes to health care, than when we took office in 2003.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Well, there is a shortage of doctors in Kitchener-Waterloo, and that’s having an impact on economic development in that region. The Greater Kitchener Waterloo Chamber of Commerce has in fact focused on this issue, but it’s an uphill battle. The Liberal government is great at coming up with statistics that sound great, but families in Kitchener-Waterloo are telling us on the doorstep that they can’t find a doctor.

Is the government prepared to work with New Democrats to bring more doctors to areas like Kitchener-Waterloo, or are they going to continue to play the same old cynical politics and deny that there’s a problem?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Speaker, I can tell you that there are communities in this province where we need to get family doctors. In other communities we’ve made significant progress, and Kitchener-Waterloo is one of those areas where I’m very proud to say that we’ve got more family health teams. The Centre for Family Medicine family health team, which I’ve visited, has 16 doctors and 14 health care professionals. It’s serving 7,000 patients who were previously unattached.

I would welcome the plan from the NDP. I would love to know what their advice is to us. We’ve made great progress. If they’ve got ideas, of course I’d love to hear them.

PUBLIC SAFETY

Mr. Reza Moridi: My question is for the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing. With the construction of condo buildings throughout Ontario’s big cities, we have seen several incidents in recent years where glass balcony panels on some high-rise buildings have shattered. This has understandably created a great deal of concern amongst the public, who deserve to know that their homes and neighbourhoods are safe.

Can the minister please tell us what steps the government has taken in response to these incidents?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Thank you to the member for Richmond Hill for his question. Public safety is the reason that the Ontario building code is as stringent as it is, the reason that the standards are as strong as they are. Following these very serious incidents, we knew that we needed to act quickly, and my ministry convened an expert advisory panel to explore what changes we needed to make to the building code to ensure public safety in the immediate term. That panel included experts from all key sectors—building inspectors, engineers, developers and designers—and the panel presented me with a report that included seven recommendations, all of which we accepted.

Based on that set of recommendations, we have now amended Ontario’s building code to address how glass is used in balcony guards, and these new measures actually came into effect on July 1 of this year, so we moved very quickly. The new standards clearly state what type of glass must be used and how it must be installed, depending on how close it is to the edge of the balcony. This will put Ontario at the leading edge of the standards for this kind of balcony glass.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Supplementary.

Mr. Reza Moridi: Thank you, Minister. I’m very pleased to hear what our government has done to ensure the safety of Ontarians. However, it’s important that the public has full confidence in the safety of its buildings, and I would like some more information on how these new amendments to the building code will be applied.

Mr. Speaker, will the minister please tell the House how these changes are being administered and what the public can do if they live in a building with glass balconies?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: As I said in my previous response, the amendments to the building code came into effect on July 1, and they apply to any construction for which the building permit is issued on or after that date.

Having said that, we’re considering these amendments as interim measures, because we’re going to be supporting the Canadian Standards Association in their development of a national standard for the use of glass in balcony guards. Then once that national standard has been put in place, we’ll review the standards we’ve put in place and determine if further building code amendments will be needed.

Municipalities also have the ability under the Building Code Act to address unsafe conditions in buildings, including the ability to conduct inspections in order to make repairs. The city of Toronto has used these powers to address the issue of balcony glass failures in several buildings, and I understand that the city of Toronto has also been proactively contacting owners of existing buildings to make them aware of changes to the building code and to advise them on steps that they can take to ensure safety for their balcony glass guards.

AIR AMBULANCE SERVICE

Mr. Bill Walker: My question is to the Premier. So far, the legislative hearings into the Ornge scandal have heard from former Ornge CEO Dr. Chris Mazza, who claims he is a scapegoat, and your health minister, Deb Matthews, who claims she did not know. And you, Premier, are simply refusing to appear before the committee. None of you is taking responsibility for what’s happened at Ornge.

Premier, one simple question: Who does the buck stop with in the Dalton McGuinty government?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Speaker, I am pleased to entertain yet another question on the subject of Ornge. I want to make it clear: We’ve indicated, I think—at least I have—on at least half a dozen occasions that we take responsibility for failing to bring the necessary oversight in the matter of Ornge. We’ve said that many times.

The auditor, an independent third party, has taken a close look at this. He’s provided us with recommendations and conclusions. We accept all of those wholeheartedly, Speaker.

We have a committee that’s doing good work. I think it’s time to wind up the committee, Speaker. I ask my honourable colleagues to complete their work and provide us with substantive recommendations.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: Bring in the bill.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: I hear from my honourable colleague from the Ottawa area, who brings considerable volume to her responsibilities—it’s always well appreciated—“Bring in the bill.” We brought in the bill a long time ago; it’s Bill 50, Speaker. We’d like to move ahead with Bill 50.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Supplementary.

Mr. Bill Walker: Again to the Premier: Mr. Speaker, if the buck doesn’t stop with the Premier, then who? We know: Don Guy.

The Premier refuses to let his incompetent health minister step down. He refuses to testify amid the disclosure that he and Dr. Mazza had meetings. The Premier’s lack of accountability, in my opinion, is in itself a scandal. Premier, there is only one explanation for why you yourself won’t testify: You don’t want the committee to get to the bottom of the truth about Ornge.

Premier, one simple question again: Just what are you trying to hide?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: I haven’t been keeping count, but this is maybe the 10th question I have received on the matter of Ornge, and I’d be pleased to take as many as they’d like to put, Speaker. But again, I think it’s important for us, and I think Ontarians understand this, to draw a distinction between the game—the game is fun; I understand that. But we have a responsibility in government.

We begin by taking responsibility for the lack of oversight that we should have brought to bear on the matter of Ornge. We accept that. That’s not a game, Speaker; that’s serious business.

We also have a bill that we have put together based on the auditor’s recommendations. We’d like to move forward with that. That’s not a game, Speaker; that’s serious business.

The Ornge committee can, in fact, complete its serious work, providing us with substantive recommendations at the earliest possible opportunity so we can get on with that. That’s not a game, Speaker; that’s serious business.

Here on this side of the House, we’re focused on the people’s serious business.

Mr. Frank Klees: Point of order.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The member for Newmarket–Aurora on a point of order.

Mr. Frank Klees: Speaker, the Premier makes reference to Bill 50. Let the record show that the government has not even bothered to call that bill for deb