VOL. 4 PRELIMINARY UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PERIOD: 3:00 p.m. - 6:00 p.m. WEDNESDAY, MAY 2, 1979 NO. 23

May 2, 1979 The House met at 3:00 P.M. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. MR. SPEAKER (Ottenheimer) : MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAI<ER: MR. NEARY: Tape No. 960 Order, please! Mr. Speaker. NM - 1 The hon. member for LaPoile. Mr. Speaker, before we proceed with the order of business, Sir, I would like to raise a point of personal privilege and my point of personal privilege, Sir, has to do with statements made outside of this hon. House by a member of the House in the person of the member for Grand Falls (Mr. Lundrigan) who I see strutting down the corridor now, Sir, and who will be in his seat shortly.

The statements were made this morning, Sir, on an action line programme whose moderator is Mr. Jamieson, brother of the member of Parliament. MR. W. ROWE: Bribed MR. NEARY: I beg your ~ardon. Mr. Speaker, in my opinion the statements made by the hon. gentleman involved slander and libel, not through innuendo, Mr. Speaker, this was not just a matter of opinion between two members, this is a matter, Sir, of misuse and abuse of the privilege of this House.

The statements, if any hon. gentlemen happened to hear them, the charges were made that I was responsible as an elected member of this House for keeping millions of dollars outside of Newfoundland - AN HON. MEMBER: MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: MR. LUNDRIGAN: Hear, hear! That I was responsible for keeping - Order, please! Order, please! Mr. Speaker (inaudible). 2483

May 2, 1979 Tape No. 960 NM - 2 MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I beg your pardon, Sir, MR. SPEAKER (Ottenheirner): Order, please! MR. NEARY: - that I was responsible for keeping industrialists outside of this Province, a broad general statement with no specific facts, nothing to back it ~p, Sir, just statements that were made completely irresponsibly by the member for Grand Falls (Mr. Lundrigan).

And in the process of making these charges and allegations, Sir, the gentleman also said that I slandered and lied about the President of EPA, and one or two other industrialists, businessmen in this Province, which is completely untrue and false and irresponsible. Now, Sir, either the bon. gentleman withdraws his remarks and apologizes to the House or Your Honour send for the tapes. And I am sure that before Your Honour can make a ruling that Your Honour will have to send for the tapes. It is the most vicious attack, Sir, ever made by an hon. member of this House on another member, a low - MR.

SPEAXER: Order, please! Order, please! I must point out to the hon. gentleman that any specific matter cannot be debated now but what the hon. member is entitled to do is to submit the data which in his opinion substantiate a prima facie case and any debate would then follow if in fact there were an affirmative ruling. MR. NEARY: known better. Right, Your Honour. I should have But in the meantime I could have taken this matter up with the CRTC, Sir, and I will as far as the moderator and the station itself is concerned because they have a hearing coming up in June to extend their licence into Conception Bay. 2484

May 2, 1979 Tape 961 PK - 1 Mr. Neary: so I will deal with that matter in another way, will deal with that matter through the CRTC. But I believe, Your statements that were made by the member for Grand Falls (Mr. Lundrigan) against myself and against the member for Buchans (Mr. Flight) and against other members of the Opposition. And I would like for Your Honour, before Your Honour makes a ruling to send for the tapes and listen to the tapes and I am sure that Your Honour will come to the conclusion that my privileges and other members privileges of this House have been breached. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER (MR. OTTENHEIMER): The hon. House Leader. MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, that is not a point of privilege. The han. gentleman on the opposite side who occupies a position of Opposition House Leader should refer per changed to authorities which is Beauchesne, the Fifth Edition, Page 12, Paragraph 19, Sub-paragraph (3) which clearly says, "Statements made outside of the House by a Member may not be used as a basis for a question of privilege." SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. MARSHALL: Now it is there. It is simple. It does not require any

interpretation at all, Mr. Speaker. And I would respectfully suggest that questions of this nature should be nipped in the bud immediately because it is not within the purview of this House to determine as a matter of privilege statements that are made outside the House. If we did this we could get into a lot of areas such as areas of something that is rather scandalous, heard last night made outside of the House about these courts in the United States being next to God,not like the courts here, this type of thing. So if we got into that area there would be some very sorry repercussions. SOME HON.

MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The hen. member for Grand Falls. MR. LUNDRIGAN: Mr. Speaker, on that question of privileges. It is the first time I have heard of any challenge to a member being asked 2485

May 2, 1979 Tape 961 PK - 2 Mr . Lundri gan: to repeat the statements in the House that he made outside of the House. SOME HON. MEHBERS: MR. LUNDRI GAN: Oh, llh! But I am quite prepared la ter on in the debate, given the oppcrtunity, to repeat any statements I made outside the House - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. LUNDRIGAN: - so that Your Honour can properly then rule as to whether am in order. The member cannot attack the entire world on a daily basis and expect to go unscathed. AN HON. ~£MBER: Oh, oh~ MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please~ MR. LUNDRIGk~: And, Mr.

Speaker, given the first opportunity will repeat for the member here in the House any comments I made outside. might add a little fl urry of activity as well. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! I will give my decision on this matter in due course. PRESENTING PETITIONS MR . SPEAKER: The hon. member for Bay of Islands. MR. WOODRO\~: Mr . Speaker, I have a petition from 676 taxpayers on the North Shore of the Bay of Islands in the district of Bay of Islands, 2486

Tape No. 962 AH-1 l'ay 2,1979 MR. WOODROW: and the prayer of the petition reads as follows: "1Je ,the undersigned residents and voters of the communities of Cox's Cove, Mciver's, Gillams, Meadows, Summerside and Irishtown in the ciiscrict or nay o£ Isiands,do hereby pecicion our provincial government to allocate funds to the Department of Transportation and Communications for the recapping of the Northshore Highway from Ballam !!ridge to Cox's Cove." Mr.

Speaker, I would like in making a few comments on this petition to say that it is some years ago now since the first pavement was put down on this road, on this highway on the Northshore, the Bay of Islands. And I am not, Mr. Speaker, unmindful on the amounts of money spent in the district of the Bay of Islands on the roads, both on the North and the South shores. However,in 1978 the department put down chip seal, down to about,roughly speaking,ten or twelve miles and it did not prove to be all that successful. In fact it was, Mr. Speaker, as you know,unsuccessful in the city of St.

John's and there is still a lot of controversy going on about it even up to the present time. So the highway needs a total recapping job and the petitioners are asking that if possible so much be done each year, so much this year, next year and until the job is completed. Mr. Speaker, I am going to lay the petition on the table of the House and ask the hon. Minister of Transportation and Communications (Mr.Brett) for his kind consideration in this matter for the people on the Northshore of the Bay of Islands as soon as funds can be made available. MR. SPEAKER:(Mr. Ottenheimer) Conception Bay South. MR.

NOLAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Hon. member for Mr. Speaker, I rise to support the prayer of the petition as submitted by my hon. friend opposite and while doing so,and since he made reference 2487

May 2, 1979 Tape 963 EC - 1 MR. NOLAN: to chip seal which,as he says~has caused some considerable controversy in St. John's where it has been laid previously and,since he has indicated, in his own area on the North Shore where it has been unsuccessful, it might be interesting to have the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Brett) address himself to this problem now here in the House, What is the position of the department regarding chip seal( What has been their experience? Do they intend to continue using it or not?

Obviously, the people of Cox Cove, Gillams and the other areas me~tioned by my hon. friend, for the North Shore highway, is one that is a most serious one and obviously in need of attention. I believe it was 500 and same names that were listed? MR. WOODROW: Six hundred and seventy-six. MR. NOLAN: Six hundred and seventy-six names, not an amount to be ignored even if it were far less, and by the way, when one talks about roads, Mr. Speaker, there are any number of roads in many areas that are in need.

The situation is that we have heard time and time again about various plans that are going to be tabled in this House on roads that are going to be done in various districts and various communities. Now where is it? We d~not have it last year, we did not have it the year before. I mean, where is the list? We are now told that we are involved - and maybe the Premier can deny this -we are now told that various so-called P.C. groups in various areas are now coming forward to describe the needs for certain areas.

Now if this is the game the hen. the Premier or the Minister of Transportation or anyone else wants to play, well, then we are going to have one hot time in the old town. And this might be a time for the han. the Premier, since he is new in office, 2488

~lay 2, 1979 Tape 963 EC - 2 to nip this in the bud and to take a responsible attitude on the needs chat are cryin g ouc ror accJ.on , no:: unly it'l CoA Cvva or..: Ci!!.:._::::. as my hon. friend seated , but in many other areas of this ?rovince. We have roads that have been ignored, absolutely ignored, oftentimes on purely political grounds, and it is time that this was changed. :-iaybe I am mistaken. but I am naive enough to believe that perhaps the hon. the Premier might want to take a new look at this kind of politics that has been played in this Province.

A dusty road, one with potholes. mud, no ditching and so on, and no paving, is as tort ur ous and aggravating and depreciates property for a P.C. just as much - or a Liberal or an N.D.P. or anyone else. And it is time t his discrimina t ion stopped, and the time is cow, to use you r phrase. So I would hope that the hon. the ~inister of Transportation (Mr. Brett) will now address himself to the problem on the North Shore highw a y, as outlined by my bon. friend.

And not only that, let us look forward. and soon , to a ta bling in this House of what roads are co be done and when they are going to be done, and lee us not go t hrough the political promising nonsense again because the people out there are looking for answers 2489

May 2, 1979 Tape 964 SD - 1 MR. J. NOLAN: and they are not going to be put off, So I certainly support the petition, Mr. Speaker NOTI CES OF MOTION MR. SPEAKER: (Ottenheimer) Hon. President of the Council. MR. W. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, on behalf of my colleague, the Minister of Fisheries (Mr.W.Carter), I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce the following bill, "An Act to Amend the Fishing Industry Advisory Board Act,l975," and on behalf of my colleague the Minister of Justice (Mr. T.

Hickman), I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce the following bill, "An Act To Enable Gaden's Limited And Labatt Breweries Of Newfoundland Limited To Become Federal Corporations." ORAL QUESTIONS ~IR. SPEAKER: The hon, member for LaPoile. MR. S. NEARY: Mr . Speaker, my question is directed to the hon. the Premier, Sir. It has to do with the matter we discussed yesterday during the Oral Question Period,the final days. Would the hon. the Premier indicate to the House if the former Premier, that is the albatross Premier, removed any files from the eighth floor when he quit his job~ MR.

SPEAKER: PREMIER PECKFORD: :!.s somewhat repulsive. Hon, Premier. Mr. Speaker, no,You know,that question I mean,obviously the former Premier did not remove any files from the office of Premier or anywhere else. The answer is absolutely no. MR. S. 1\o'"EAR.Y: MR. SPEAKER: LaPoile. MR. S. NEARY: Supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. Supplementary, the hon , member for Mr. Speaker, the hon. Premier of the Province and the ministers are entitled to remove their own personal files. Did the former Premier remove his own personal files from the the Premier's office? 2490

May 2, 1979 MR. SPEAKER: (Ott!mheimer) PREMIER. PECKFORD: Tape 964 SD - 2 The hon, Premier. Mr. Speaker, obviously I take it that when I move an office I could take whatever were my own tiles. "When the hon, gentleman ask~ the q~~estion he did not specify what kind of files and I did not know if he expected me to suddenly find all the different types of files around the world that an indivi.dual might have at his disposal as the First Minister of the CroWQ.

The answer to the original question was 'no 1 • If the bon. member had been· more specific in referring to personal files, I suppose b.e did, I have not CO!Jie across any personal files in the office on the eighth floor, below here, that belong to the former Prelllier,so I jUst ass~e that he took whatever personal files he had which were his. MR. • S. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER.: LaPoile. A supplementary question, Mr. Sp~ker. Supplementary, the hon. 111ember for MR. S. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman, souhow or qnother, is doing again e little fancy stickhandling.

Maybe I am not making myself clear, Let m.e ask the hon. gentleman if the former Premier d:id,indeed,take any files from the eighth floor. Did the bon, Premier, for the time being, check to see if any files 2491

May 2' 1979 Tape No. 965 DW- l MR. S. NEARY: were removed? Yesterday I produced a letter that was sent to Hr. Shaheen signed by the former Premier. I laid it on the table of the House so the hon. gentleman could have a look at it because the hon. 'gentleman said he had never seen it,and it was signed by the former Premier of this Province. What I want to know, Mr. Speaker, if any files at all had been removed, if the hon. gentleman has checked with the secretaries to see if any files indeed v1ere removed from the eighth floor. MR. SPEAKER. EMR. OTTE~'HEU:ER): The hon. Premier.

PREMIER PECKFORD: I did not deliberately 1go out of my way to check to see if any of the files were removed· There is a registry in the Premier's office, a separate office called the registry,and there is a person who works in there full-time on files, filing all the information that comes in, after what action is necessary is done and it is put there.~ot the registrar,nor the director of administra­ tion,-nor any of the people who have worked on the floor have indicated any removal of files of any kind or another,and because nobody has come forward I just assumed that all the files are there like they always were that belong · office.

MR. S. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: NR. S. NEARY: and are officially a part of the Premier's A supplementary question, Hr. Speaker. A supplementary. Hr. Speaker, would the hon. gentleman indicate if the former Premier's secretary is still on the eighth floor and if so what is that particular person's present duties? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Hr. Speaker, the former Premier had a number of positions in the office and I think the hon. Opposition House Leader is referring to his personal assistant rather than his secretary - MR. S.

NEARY: Well, receptionist.· PRI!MIER PECKFOPJl: - and I think under the estimates it would be referred to as his personal assistant. And the personal assistant to the former Premier is not now working in the Premier's office 2492

May 2,1979 Tape No. 965 DW - 2 PREMIER PECKFuRD: but .is now working with Planning and Priorities Secretariat on the seventh floor. HR. J. NOLMI: A supplementary, Hr. Speaker. l1R. SPEAKER (NR.OTTENHEHfER): member for Conception Bay South. A supplementary, the hen. ~!R. J. NOLAN: Yesterday I asked the hen. the Premier about certain positions in the Premier's office or offices right throughout the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador and since there are some - I do not always go by the rumour factory,o ·bviously 1 b~~ was Mr.

Rex Murphy on the public payroll of this Province and 1 if so,at what cost, what was he paid? Was there a public car involved? Did a member cf the civil service go and bring the car back? And any other . items that might be surrounding this- if in fact there is any truth to it at all,And I wonder if the hen. the Premier,while he may not have the information readily available, would be kind enough to provide us with that information. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Premier. BREMIER PECKFORD: Yes,Mr. Speaker, I am not aware whether Mr.

Murphy worked for the government or not.I understand, sort of remember that last year for a period of time Mr. Murphy~and I think the former Premier did mention this in the House at the time 7that Mr. Murphy was working,doing some work for the former premier and I know that Mr. Murphy is not now working for the 2493

May 2,1979 Tape No. 966 AH-1 PREMIER PECKFORD: Premier's office or for this Premier 1 nor is he working for anybody else in government to my knowledge. Whether there are some rumours about about cars or about other things 1 I am just not aware of them at all. MR. NOLAN: MR. SPEAKER:(Mr.Ottenheimer) for Conception Bay South. MR. NOLAN.i_ A supplementary. A supplementary. Hon. member Is the hon.

Premier saying no, that an official of the Civil Service of this Province did not go and bring back a public car 7 And perhaps he could also tel! us if certain funds may be withheld,for some reason,that have not been paid to that gentleman and,if so,why not? PREMIER PECKFORD: idea, Mr. Speaker. ~. NOLAN: agree to find out? PREMIER PECKFORD: ~. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: I have not the faintest Would the hon. the Premier Absolutely, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, a supplementary. A supplementary.

Ron. member I am not altogether satisfied with the answers that I have been getting in connection with the files. It is very important that all the records, at least copies of all the letters and correspondence or records,be left in the Premier's office. And this is not meant to be repulsive in any way at all. I am just trying to find out if the hon. gentleman checked to see if indeed any files or any correspondence, any letters or anything was removed from the eight floor, from the Premier's office when the former premier left? That is all I am asking the hon. gentleman.

Has he taken the trouble to find out and is it not important that the hon. gentleman find out? MR.. SPEAKER : The hon. Premier • .. 2494

~..ay 2,1979 Tape No. 966 AH-2 PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, I have enough faith and trust in the former premier that any files that are officially a part of the Premier's office that that hon. gentleman would not take them, number one. MR. NEARY.: everything else , did he not? MR. SPEAKER:(~r.Ottenheimer) PREMIER PECKFO~~: Number two is that we have a very - · Well he tried to take Order, please! Mr. Speaker, secondly,we have a very competent person who looks after the regiscry !n the Premier's office, who has been there under the former administration of Mr. Smallwood, under the administration led by Mr.

Moores and now. is still a part of the present administration, a very efficient, competent person who has been looking after files, official files of the Premier's office dealing with all the major issues of the day for a long period of time. I am sure that if there had been any files that had been removed~or information or correspondence removed,that he would have informed me for those two reasons. Now that the hon.

Opposition House Leader brings it up, I suppose because he considers it to be important that some people in .the Premier's office might not consider that to be so important that they would have already raised it with me after three or four weeks in office,I will this evening or tomorrow morning just broach the question with them and ask them to review it.But I am sure in my own mind, totally confident, absolutely confident, one hundred and fifty per cent confident that everything is in order•othe~se these very competent people~who are part of the Civil Service would have informed me differently. MR.

NEARY: A supplementary, Sir. MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary. MR. NEARY: After three and a half weeks, Sir, I am surprised to hear the hon. gentleman say that he is not sure. This seems to be a pat answer that we are getting from the hon. gentleman, he is never sure of anything. Well, Sir, I want to 2495

May 2,1979 Tape No. 966 AH-3 MR. NEARY: ask the hon. gentleman is it not customary when you are transferring power that as a matter of gentleman whc is he was going ~o take anything with him would advise his successor what he was taking? Was there any discussion? : Z496

May 2, 1979 Tape No. 967 NM - 1 MR. NEARY: Did the hon. gentleman oversee the transfer of power or did he just let the thing drift on, let nature take its course and not tiy to find out if anything was being removed from the eighth floor of Confederation Building? And indeed the answer he is giving me, Mr. Speaker, I would assume the hon. gentleman is not sure. MR. SPEAKER (Ottenheimer): The hon. Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, the hon. Opposition House Leader is free to put whatever

interpretation and judgement he sees fit upon comments made in this hon. House and elsewhere and therefore any value judgement that he comes to is entirely up to him to defend and support and reconfirm at whatever time he wants. That is up to the Opposition House Leader. I can only reiterate that I am sorry if the hon. Opposition House Leader is not satisfied with my answers. Mr.

Speaker, during the transfer from one premier to another 1 the former premier and I sat down for hours downstairs here going over the transfer and the information that he wanted to pass on to me as it related to major issues of the day in his view and his advice to me on things. I went over that with the former premier and he took his personal files. There was no informatiop,only the files dealing with certain current problems were left there for me. MR. NEARY: Oh,I see! He did take files~ PREMIER PECKFORD: premier take files. MR.

NEARY: PREMIER PECKFORD: I never saw the hon. the former It is a different story now. I answered in a previous question that I supposed I assumed that the former premier took his personal files. MR. NEARY: Are you sure? ;G497

May 2, 1979 PREMIER PECKFORD: MR. NEARY: PREMIER PECKFORD: downstairs right now MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: PREMIER PECKFORD: Tape No. 967 NM - 2 I have already answered that. Are you sure he took them? There are no files in the desk Well what did he take? Order, please! Order, please! - which have on them "personal" belonging to the former premier. So I suppose there were so files in those drawers. MR. NEARY: PREMIER PECKFORD: witch hunts, Mr. Speaker. MR. NEARY: PREMIER PECKFORD: But do you know what he took? I do not do those kind of No, it is not a witch hunt.

All I know is that I have a competent staff which would have advised me if there were some irregularities in the filing system in the Premier's Office. MR. NEARY: Well 1 you ha1 better check it out. You had better check it. That is my advice to you. PREMIER PECKFORD: And I know that if there are personal files owned by an individual who possesses or is a part of an office, who fills an office - MR. NEARY: You do not know what he took.

PREMIER PECKFORD: - that when that person leaves that office I suppose he would leave there all the files relating to the office and position and take those files which belong to the person. MR. NEARY: But are you sure? PREMIER PECKFORD: I do not know how many files 1 if any,the former Premier took. You know 1 personal files, I do not know. 2498

May 2, 1979 Tape No. 967 NM - 3 MR. NEARY: Oh I see. Now you do not know. MR. SPEAKER (Ottenheimer) : The hon. member for Fortune­ Hermitage, followed by the hon. member for Terra Nova. MR. J. WINSOR: My question was intended for the Minister of Fisheries. As he is not in his place perhaps the Premier could enlighten me on this subject.

In light of the fact, or so I understand, that the agreement between the federal government and the provincial government was signed in December, would the minister tell the House if plans are ready for the marine haul- out at Harbour Breton and when tenders are likely to be called? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, I will have to take that question as notice and find out later on this afternoon in consultation with people in the Department of Fisheries and the Intergovernmental Affairs secretariat. I will undertake to do that, Mr.

Speaker, before six o'clock and provide an answer for the hon. member before that time. MR. SPEAKER: MR. LUSH: The bon. member for Terra Nova. Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Premier in an effort to determine what changes we can expect from his government as opposed to the former administration. The former premier announced, sometime last year 2499

May 2, 1979 Tape 968 Mr. Lush: I think,the formation of an Advisory Committee, a group of business people that were going to advise the Premier a;;d the Cabi n'"t on ma Ue-r·s conc~rni ng economic deve i opement and o-cher matters of public concern. I wonder if the Premier can inform the House what is the status of that committee now? Is that committee gone or whether it is still intact? MR. SPEAKER (MR. OTTENHEIMER): The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Yes, Mr.

Speaker, that question was asked a PK - 1 couple of weeks ago, and my response at that time was I am in the process of meeting with that Economic Advisory Council, reviewing their mandate as outlined by the former premier. And in due course,through the budgetary process decisions will be made relating to the mandate of that organization-whether in fact its mandate will be enlarged, whether in fact its mandate will change, whether in fact a composition of the council will remain as it is now - all these issues will be reviewed obviously as Cabinet and Treasury Board deal with the Budget.

And I will be making then a full statement as it relates to the role, the continued role, if any, of that organization at that time. To date they have a report coming to me. I think, I had one on my desk a few days ago relating to various areas of government that they have commented upon. I think they have been looking at the lands policy of government, given government some advice on it. I think they have been looking at a number of other areas of economic stimulation that the government could undertake, as advice to the government.

And so they have done some work already on behalf of government for government, but the whole question of its future existence, its future mandate is to be reviewed by Cabinet and Treasury Board in the normal budgetary process. MR. LUSH: MR. SPEAKER: MR . LUSH: A supplementary. A supplementary. In looking at and reviewing this committee, would the Premier undertake to tell the House whether he plans on changing its structure?Because this committee is very narrow in its scope, it is only representative of the business community, there are no labour representation, 259.0 >

May 2, 1979 Tape 968 PK - 2 Mr. lush: no people from education, just the business community. MR. SPEAKER (MR. OTTENHEIMER): The hon. the Premier. Pp£M!£R PECKfOR~: at the composition and the overall mandate of that council. And in addition to that I have also consulted with people outside of government as it relates to the Province of Newfoundland's participation in different economic organizations nationally and regionally to ensure whether these are really working out or not. For example, the Economic Council of Canada,! understand in an announcement

May 2, 1979 Tape 969 EC - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: until several months ago,and they are due to come down and meet with me now in a you will, the whole economic situation of Newfoundland , a special review that they are doing, a special report -Atlantic Economic Council, which takes in four Eastern provinces and Newfoundland's role in that, and whether in fact some additional organization or other organization involving business and labour and so on should be put together, which would reflect large business, medium­ size business, small business, the labour movement and other people who are interested who would provide on the outside,at armslength from government,ongoing studies and reports on a quarterly basis or a monthly basis to government on economic matters.

So I am quite aware of the intent of the hon. member's question and feel that it is time for government at this critical point in our history, if you will, economic history, number one; and number two, because we are now going through the whole question of money matters as it relates to the Budget, to try to come up with some policy relating to advice from other sectors of the economy involving big and small business, the labour mo>ement and other such agencies who might be interested in providing some information and making that done through some permanent, if you will, linkage or vehicle rather than through the way that it is done now where the Federation of Labour has an annual brief, the Board of Trade - like yesterday - had an annual brief: Is there some way we can get all of these agencies together into one kind of organization to do various studies and to be talking on a more regular basis,four or five times a year or whatever4to government and making their recommendations 25U2

May 2, 1979 Tape 969 EC - 2 PREMIER PECKFORD: public, but at the same time being armslength enough to be able to make them public wichout che politicti ur tll~ thing g~tting i~7olvcd~ MR. LUSH: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: (Mr. Ottenheimer) a supplementary. The original questioner, MR. LUSH: Prior to setting up this particular committee and immediately after the election of the Part!

Quebecois in Quebec, the former Premier also made a public statement to the effect that he was going to set up a committee to look into the possibility of staying in or getting out of Confederation, and on questioning him here in the House, he said here in the House - and the remarks can be found in Hansard - that he was going to set up a committee although he fudged somewhat and said it was not to look into whether we would separate from Canada but merely to look into the cost of staying in versus the cost of getting out. And he said here in the House that he was going to set up that committee definitely.

So my question to the Premier is, Was this committee set up or was it ever talked about in Cabinet, or is it just a dead issue now? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, I am not sure that the hon. member is quoting me at all correctly. I think there was a condition attached to it. And I think 25D3

May 2, 1979 Tape No. 970 DW - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: the hon. gentleman should perhaps provide or make scm.~ quotes when he bases a question - MR. !..USE: PREMIER PECKFORD: Oh , the former. Well, as I understood that one as welL,the information there is that it was in the event that Quebec separated from Canada ~mat would be the cost to the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador and whether,in fact,in that unlikely event~the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador should consider some other arrangement with Ottawa and the res~ of what would then be Canada.

I know of no particular committee that was set up as a result of that,but I think the former premier was thinking out loud that if in the event that Quebec did make some definitive moves towards separation,over and above what they have already made by the election of the Parti Quebecois, which seems to be doing very well out of Ottawa and the rest of Canada up to now as it relates to ongoing a new federal/provincial programmes.

So I guess,r would surmise that the former premier did not see fit to go ahead with the establishment of that committee because the conditions under which he wanted to see it established did not reach such a degree that would see the feasibility of the necessity of having such a committee established. MR. J. NOLAN: A supplementary, }~. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (MR. OTTENHEINER): for Conception Bay South. A supplementary, the hon. member MR. J. NOLAN: I was interested in the remark made·.a moment ago by the hon. Premier referring to small businesses.

And my question is based on the fact that we have a great number of small business people in this Province,as I am sure the Premier knows. We often­ times have big businesses, big corporations and so on who oftentimes go into business with very little personal money involved, oftentimes with grants federal and provincial and so on. They get in trouble and then they are bailed out~holus-bolus oftentimes,by either the federal or provincial agencies concerned. Now my question is for the 2504

Hay 2, 1979 Tape No. 970 DW - 2 MR. J. NOLAN: man and:<the woman,for exa1!Iple1 who mortgages their house and starts their business and puts it all on the line, who looks after them if they get in trouble? And i_s the Premier, or does he have anybody who is looking at the situation insofar as small pusiness people are concerned wh~ have got everything they own in this world into it. And apparently if they do go into some trouble because of no fault of their own, who looks after them?

That is the question many business people ask today: why is it there seems to be a select group who can do what they like and somehow can find favour with whatever administration may be in power and they can be looked-after while they go do~m the drain? Would your Advisory Committee look at that one? !1R. SPEA..ICER (MR. OTTENHEU!ER): The hon. Premier. PREHIER PECKFORD : Mr.

S~eaker, it may very well be a good idea but I do~not know if in recent years we have found 1 en a provincial level at least,where large corpcrations have put hardly none of their own mon~y into the provincial economy and used the taxpayers'money only,and then if something did happen to them then that the provincial government would write it off. There are very few examples of that.I can think of some in the past, nationally and provincially,but in recent years I do not think it has been.

And on the whole question of small businesses 1 if one looks at the present programme on resource · "based industries through the Department of Rural Development,any person who wants to get involved in a resource based industry has the opportunity to apply and hopefully if the venture is proven to be viable the $12,500 in very low interest loan or no interest loan plus $12, sao outright grant based on very little equity being put in by the applicant in the first instance, so that there has been some attempts made to try to,if in fact there had been some breaks for a large business they ~re now in place also breaks for s.mall businesses.

Of course,this can be extended all the way up 2505

May 2, 1979 Tape No, 970 DW - 3 PREMIER PECKFORD: up into the Newfoundland and Labrador Development Corporation where you are into medium size businesses up to $1 million. But I understand the problem that the hon. member is focusing in on but I think to be fair that there has been a pretty earnest attempt in recent years to try to reflect ii?. programmes some grant and seed money for the small busine11sman so that he does not have to go to the extent of mortgaging a house and some of his own personal affects, MR.. J . !<OLAN: A S!lP)'lementary. MR. SPEAKER (MR.

OTTENREIMER): Final supplementary, followed by the hon. gentleman for Trinity - Bay de Verde (Mr. F. Rowe), Burgee - Bay d' Espoir (Mr, Simmons) ., and Windsor e Buchans (Mr. Flight) • HR. J. NOLA..'\1: Perhaps I can be a little more specific for the hon. the Premier.! remember on one occasion a certain group coming in and they,as I remember,said that if they did not have a certain amount of money within a certain period of time that 250 people would be laid off. It seems to me,as I recall, I am probably referring to a fish plant or some of the fish processors and ao on.

I mean,I have seen this game work time and t:!,me again in this Province and 2506

May 2, 1979 Tape 971 PK - 1 Mr. Nolan: I am sure the han. Premier has too. I mean, if well-intentioned people are prepared to put everything they have in this world on the line to start a business, and if through no fault of their own they get into trouble - what I am trying to get at is there are some people who have been bailed out time and time again, and what the ordinary business people, and even politically, if you want to look at it from a purely selfish politically point of view, there are more of them than there are the big fellows - now what rights do they have?

And that is the question I believe we have to address ourselves to because it is discussed by ~mall businessmen frequently. MR. SPEAKER (MR. OTTENHEIMER): The han. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: You know, it depends a lot on the nature of the business. If it is a normal retail commerical business,it is very difficult for government to get involved in the participation of that.

Usually governments in recent~; years, in the last ten or fifteen years if they were going to make some decision on bailing some company out, it has been made on fairly strong social grounds as it relates -to employment, as the han. member mentioned of 200 or 300 people, or whatever, involved, And in most cases the company that has been bailed out has not got where it got by not putting some of its own money in)· in most cases they have no money left of their own, and just about everything mortgaged.

So, you know, I would have to see the particular example and would have to see the nature of the enterprise involved, Ifit is a strict retail establishment then I do not think the government should be getting involved in it. If it is a resource based industry . and many jobs are at stake and where the possibility still exist to create new dollars,then I think we have a social responsibility to get involved and perhaps in certain instances bail somebody out. MR. SPEAKER: The han. member for Trinity-Bay de Verde. MR. F. ROWE: Mr.

Speaker, a couple of days ago the Premier indicated to the House that he would tell the House within a couple of days whether or not the Cole contract had received Cabinet approval or not. I am wondering now, Sir, it being a couple of days later~whether 2507

May 2, 1979 Tape 971 PK - 2 Mr. F. Rowe: the Premeir could indicate to this House whether or not that Cole contract for a ten year period~ costing the ta xpayers $475,000 over a ten ~ ear period with various other fringe benefits, did in fact receive the approval of Cabinet? MR. SPEAKER (MR. OTTENHEIMER): The han. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: MR. F. ROWE: MR. SPEAKER: MR. F. ROWE : Yes, Mr. Speaker, it did. A supplementary, Mr . Speaker. A supplementary. Could the Premier indicate, Sir, whether he was present at that particular Cabinet meeting? MR. NEARY: responsible anyway. MR. F. ROWE: MR.

SPEAKER: It does not make any difference, he is Well, I will let that go as the first one. The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, share a responsibility~as does every minister of Cabinet,in decisions that were made by that Cabinet that that person is a part of. I do not think, Mr. Speaker, that the pub 1 i c interest will be served if I get into answers to questions in this han. House which involve who was present and who was not present when certain Cabinet decisions were made. I think this would be very unfortunate if that ever occurred.

The system of government is such that a Cabinet, a group of individuals around the table, make decisions. What happens while those decisions are made in that room is entirely secret and confidential and must remain so if the system is really to· function properly in my view. But in providing information as to whether decisions were made,and what the decisions were,of course they are very much a part of the information flow that should occur in this han. House.

But as far as attendance at various Cabinet meetings,I do not think that that is a kind of situation and information that should be provided under the system that we live under right now. MR. F. ROWE: Mr. Speaker, a further supplementary. 2508

May 2, 1979 Tape 971 PK - 3 MR. SPEAKER (MR. OTTENHEIMER): A supplementary. MR. F.

ROWE: Could the Premier indicate, Sir, whether or not now since we have had a chance of administration,so to speak,and a new Cabinet in a manner of speaking, and a new Premier, whether or not the new administration would reconsider this particular contract, because the Premier did indicate some time this week that they are in the process now of reconsidering some of the policy of the previous administration, whether or not the Premier and his Cabinet are reconsidering this particular contract, whether they condone it, whether the present administration condones it, and whether there is any possibility of rescinding this particular contract at a time when there is so much unemployment in this Province!

When this government can afford to give such a handout~ the only thing I can say is congratulations to Mr. Cole, and shame on the government. MR. SPEAKER: MR. NEARY: PREMIER PECKFORD: The hon. the Premier. A great negotiator. Mr. Speaker, as I have indicated in this House on quite a few occasions now in the last number of days and weeks,that when any new Cabinet takes over and another individual is in the First Minister's chair, obviously there will be an emphasis on certain things, and a de-emphasis on others, that there will be new directions taken on a whole range of issues.

And in the course of reviewing my role as Premier and the Cabinet, and in the course of now reviewing staff 2509

May 2,1979 Tape No. 972 AR-1 PREMIER PECKFORD: requirements and programmes, the whole question of contracts of this nature and other positions in the service-or either under contract or in the public service will be rev1ewed,and I intend to in the same instance therefore review that particular one that the hon. member referres to. MR.F .ROWE: Mr. Speaker. MF. SPEAKER:(~r.Ottenheimer) MR.F.ROWE: A further supplementary, A supplementary. Just to get it perfectly clear now, Mr. Speaker: Am I to understand that the present administration is in fact reconsidering and reviewing this particular contract with Mr. Cole?

MP_, SPEAKER: PREMIER PECKFORD: The hen. Premier. Mr. Speaker, all programmes that are in existence right now as it relates to the spending of money, as it relates to ongoing stimulation for the economy, as it relates to programmes that are in place, they are all under review and that would include obviously the one that the hon. member refers to. MR. NEARY: Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: MR. NEARY: A supplementary, Mr. Hon. member for LaPoile . Mr.

Speaker, there were a -number of items disclosed that were passed by the Cabinet in the final days of the Moores administration, a number of items that have not been announced as government policy and would not have come out unless we raised them in the House yesterday. Now since yesterday has the Premier had an opportunity to find out what other items that were not mentioned in this House yesterday that were passed in the final days of the Moores administration that the Premier has found distasteful and unable to live with?

Are there any other items passed in the three weeks, the final three weeks of the Moores administration and 1 if so, Yhat are these items? 251.0

May 2,1979 Tape No. 972 MR. SPEAKER: (Mr.Ottenheimer) PREMIER PECKFORD: AH-2 The hon. Premier. That, Sir, is a very repulsive question to me and I do not intend to answer it. ORDERS OF THE UAY MR. SPEAKER: It being Private Member's Day we will proceed to the debate on Motion 1. Going by the process of rotation. an hon. gentleman to my right was speaking the last time. I recognize the bon. minister. MR. MORGAN: Mr.

Speaker, first of all I will say that I recall a few days ago prior to the opening of this Ho~e of Assembly I listened to the Open Line shows and all the radio media and on practically every news broadcast there was a certain member of the Opposition, at least one, two and maybe three calling for the opening of the House of Assembly to discuss the important matters involving the economy of the Province, primarily the unemployment situation and the inflation problem that we have and the high cost of living.

I do not know if it the lack of concern today that we have a motion on the floor of the House put forward by the Leader of the Opposition to discuss unemployment when I see so very few members on the opposite side in their seats. Maybe it is because of the lack of confidence in their leader or it could be a lack of concern for the problem we are now discussing. AN HON.MEMBER: That could be. MR. MORGAN: Yes~you were crying~ · We want the House open.'' I noticed yesterday and also Monday that there were very few members on the opposite side in their seats. No concern.

They want the House open, they want to discuss the issues, debate the issues and now we have a chance to debate the issue they stay away from the House of Assembly. Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleague this morning,! think on an Open Line show, ·my colleague fro~ Grand Falls (Mr.Lundrigan)aid something I also agree with. We do have problems of unemployment and hopefully the leadership to be shown today by 25U

May 2,1979 Tape No. 972 AH-3 MR., MORGAN: all politicians is to try to create and establish the proper kind of environment to br;l.ng in investors, to make sure we see investmen:t taking place that is going to help and boost the ecoii.omy. But I am afraid that some of the tactics that I have heard and seen played by certain members, not all the members of the Opposition, certain members, that these tactics are indeed hurting, they are !lurting this Province. They are hu·rting the Province's 'name.

For example,! recall in the la.st year's debate, or the last sitting of this Assembly, in the debate the Leader of the Opposition saying this Province is on the rocks. These quotes are in Hansard, they were earried in the press, in the medi .a, in the press media. · "The Province is on the rocks;'says the m.embe;r for ~llingate (Mr.W.Rowe). Anotber quote, the hon. gentleman from Bay d'Espoir (Mr.Si'llllllOtls} "Let us abolish the Department of Industrial Development.

Abolish the department, the P:rovinee is one industri;tl j1,n1kyard." That was carried in the press media,maybe in Halifax , maybe in New Brunswick, maybe in Ontario. And yesterday in the Assembly, and I wi.ll be speaking tomorrow 2512

May 2, 197 9 Tape 973 EC - 1 MR. MORGAN: on this very topic, on a different topic, but yesterday we were debating a bill bringing in a fairly signiricant ln~usLLy tu ~ ~~rtaia sector of the Province which is going to improve the economy of the Island portion of the Province, and all we could hear about was the commena 'skulduggery' , 'graft', 'corruption', 'scandal'. AN RON. MEMBER: Right. MR. MORGAN: The bon. gentleman from LaPoile (Mr. Neary) stood in his place yesterday and he spoke for more than three quarters of an hour and all he talked about was 'scandal','skulduggery', 'corruption'. AN HON. HEMBER: Right.

MR. MORGAN: And he was referring to one of the most reputable, I guess, companies in North America - Price Abitibi. MR. NEARY: A point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Mr. Ottenheimer) A point of order. MR. NEARY: Sir, if the bon. gentleman is going to repeat and quote what I said in the House, the hon. gentleman has to quote me correctly. The skulduggery and the corruption and the graft that I spoke about was not against Abitibi or against Mr.

Desmarais, as my bon. friend tried to convey the impression this morning; it was against International Forest Products who ripped off the taxpayers of this Province for close to $30 million. is where the graft and corruption is. There MR. SPEAKER : Order, please! Order, please! This is obviously a difference of opinion and a matter for debate~but not a point of order on which the Chair can rule. The hon. Hinister of Lands and Forests. 2513

May 2, 1979 Tape 97 3 EC - 2 ~R. MORGAN: Thank you, Hr. Speaker. The point I am making, Hr. Speaker, is that these kinds of comments made by any han. gentleman in this Assembly _ - MR. :HARY: Are true. MR. MORGAN: - referring to any potential investor, referring to any potential investment that is going to help the economy of this Province - MR. NEARY: But who made these remarks about a potentially - MR. MORGAN: - these kinds of comments, this kind of attitude, if you wish, and these kinds of impressions - MR. NEARY: A point of order, Mr. Speaker. HR. SPEAKER: (Mr. Ottenheimer) A point of order. MR. NEARY: ~r.

Speaker, if the han. gentleman, Sir, will allow me. Who made these comments against potential investors in the Province? MR. MORGAN: Hitting a sore point or what? MR. NEARY: Were they made at all or were they just the figment of the hon. gentleman's imagination? ~!R. SPEAKER: Order, please! I must point out that this is not a point of order. Sometimes when an han. member is speaking, another han. member may ask, 'Will the han. member yield?' and then put in a question or make a comment or ask him to consider a certain thing. If the han. member yields, then naturally the gentleman goes ahead.

If the han. member does not yield then that is the end of it, but that is the way it should progress, I think. The han. Minister of Lands and Forests. 2514

May 2, 1979 Tape 973 EC - 3 MR. MORGAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yesterday l sat 1n tn1s assembly and listened to the hon. gentleman, the same hon. gentleman who is now interferring, listened without interruption, without any comments. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. MORGAN: I would prefer, Mr. Speaker, if I could make my few comments in this debate this afternoon without interruption from the hon. gentleman from LaPoile (Mr. Neary) or, in fact, the others on the other side. MR. SPEAKER: (Mr. Ottenheimer) Order, please! MR. MORGAN: Mr.

Speaker, these attitudes and these kinds of impressions and these kinds of comments are, indeed, hurting the potential of bringing in investment to our Province. MR. NEARY: What about taking on Brinco? MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. MORGAN: We have a motion before the floor of this Assembly, brought in by a man who is - I suppose he is now leader of the Party over there, Leader of the Opposition, asking for a select committee to be appointed to travel around the Province to gather information, to make recommendations to this House of Assembly as to how to overcome the present unemployment situation. So, Mr.

Speaker, this resolution now before the House is asking for a select committee to find solutions. Well, let us stop and take a look at our situation today as a province. The 1970s, not only in Newfoundland but throughout North America, have been very challenging times, I would go so far as to say, throughout the Western World. We have had spiralling inflation. We thought that we were going to control inflation as a country. The steps that were 2515

Hay 2, 19 79 Tape 973 r:c - 4 HR. MORGAU: taken by the federal national government to control or curb inflation had a very unfortunate effect on the s~tuat~on re g araing e mp loym~n l in the country. And t he regions like the Atlantic Canada region were the re gions that would bear t he brunt of t he action bein g taken to curb inflation. We have seem a very upward trend of the unemployment fi g ures in Newfoundland. We have also, indeed, seen a very upward trend in the unemployment figures across Canada. In 1975 there were 613,000 - HR. SDP.-lONS: (Inaudible). MR. MORGA:ll: Xr.

Speaker, if I could have the bon. burp from Burgeo keep quiet over there, please? MR. SPEAKER: (Mr. Ott enhe imer) Ord er, plea se! The hon. gentleman has requested that he speak without interruption , and when an hon . member requests that, other bon. meobers have to accede to it. ~. MORGAN: Thank you, Xr. Spe aker. Xr. Speaker, in 1975, fo r example, no longer than four years ago, ZS1S

May 2, 1979 Tape No. 974 NM - 1 MR. MORGAN: there were only 613,000 Canadians unemployed in the Country of Canada. Now I know that the Federal National Government had to sho:• some responsibility and take some action to try to curb inflatio~ but the measures that they took - MR. FLIGHT: You jumped on. MR. SPEAKER (Ottenheimer): Order, please! MR. MORGAN: These measures created unemployment across the Country. And it is fine for people in this Province to say, "Oh, well blame the unemployment situation on the federal government." No, I am not doing that. I have no intention of doing that.

But what I am saying is that our unemployment situation today is in relation to the overall unemployment situation across Canada. 613,000 in '75 and now as of no longer than two weeks ago ·11e have a little over 1 million, 1 million Canadians looking for work. And we have too large of a number in Newfoundland looking for work. In fact in our Province today our unemployment figure is much too high. We have a total of 39,000 Newfoundlanders looking for work. Let us look at the figures in our Province today. These are the exact figures. In 1971 our total labour force was 137,000.

Today, as of March 1979, a few weeks ago, we now have a total labour force of 193,000. In 1971 we had unemployed in our Province 12,000 people, 12,000 of the work force was unemployed in '71. As I mentioned earlier, right now we have a total of 39,000. MR. FLIGHT: Three times the total in six years. MR. MORGAN: But also look at the fact that our labour force has increased substantially since '71. Our labour force now, for example the number ernployed 1 has 2517

May 2, 1979 Tape No. 974 NM - 2 MR. MORGAN: increased substantially. In 1971 the total number of people employed in this Province was 125,000. MR. FLIGHT: They were not going to Alberta, see, then 'Jim'. MR. MORGAN: And now, Mr. Speaker, our total number employed on March 31st., 1979 is 154,000, a difference, not a large difference but a significant one, of 29,000. 29,000 more people employed this year in 1979, March 31st., than there were in the 3ame period in 1971. And taking into consideration we have had a work force increase of 56,000 that is not a good figure. And I am the first one to say it.

But looking at the overall situation. and what we have done in the past number of years we have taken steps to improve the situation. For example,just this past year, let us look at the immediate past, this past year in 1978-79, the year ending March 31st., I will give two examp 'les of where jobs have been created in this Province. For example, the Newfoundland and Labrador Development Corporation, despite the fact that the Opposition members preach doom and gloom, despite the fact they seem to have no confidence in our future as a Province MR. FLIGHT: You sent them to Alberta, 'Jim'. MR.

SPEAKER (Ottenheimer): Order, please! Order, please! If the han. minister - MR. MORGAN: Development Corporation - MR. SPEAXER: MR. MORGAN: That the Newfoundland and Labrador Order, please! Order, please! I am sorry, Mr. Speaker. 2518

May 2, 1979 Tape No . 974 NM - 3 MR. SPEAKER (Otten:heimer) : I would point out that I think the custom of referring to hon. members by their first name across is someth:i.ng that if hon. members wish to preserve the parliamentary nature of this gathering, then obviou:;~ly it is unknown and unprecedented.

And it is the t;ype o£ thing which maybe every now and then will happen through forgetfulness,but it does occur to me that it is probably too prevalent and I do not mean only the hon. gentleman who was the last to do such, somewhere along the ll,ne somebody had to be the last one. to do it before I intervened and I do think han. members on both sides and all han. members should put a stop to that habit. Because once those things start they continue to snowball and the whole nature of this kind of assembly could change quite rapidly. The hon. M)..niste .r of Lands and Forests. 25:19

May 2, 1979 Tape 975 SD - l MR. J. MORGAN: Thank you, Hr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Newfoundland and Labrador Development Corporation is a corporation funded federally/provincially. In fact this corporation has seen fit, this past year, to make thirty-four loans in this Province to twenty-six projects totalling $7,900,000 this past one year, that is for the year ending March 31. Now these loans and that amount of money has created a total of 583 full-time permanent jobs, 583 by that one corporation alone. OVer and ~bove that, these loans also created 232 part-time jobs. MR. S. NEARY: How much P"·r job? MR. J • .

NORGAN: Mr. Speaker, that is one example. Again I will quote these figures, the Newfoundland and Labrador Development Corporation made thirty-four loans, showing a confidence in our economy, showing a confidence in what we have here to invest in, a total of $7,984,000 and created 583 full-time jobs and 232 part-time jobs. That is just one past year.

Also, another agency, which is, in this case, funded strictly by the Provincial Government; the Rural Development Authority, which the Opposition has often times stood in the House and critized and condemned because they are helping rural Newfoundlanders and helping the economy of rural Newfoundland and for no other reason they have been opposing it. That Authority, just this past year, approved 307 applications for loans and grants. The total amount of funds allocated to these applicants was $3,238,000. That amount of money created 395 full-time jobs and 577 part-time.

As I mentioned, that Loan Board or Loan Authority is strictly the responsibility of this administration and, in fact, was established by this administration and is a policy of aiding and helping small business primarily in the rural areas of our Province. So, putting these two together, these two agencies, just these two agencies just mentioned, Mr. Speaker, this past year we created 978 new jobs, full-time new jobs in this 25:20

May 2, 1979 Tape 975 SD - 2 MR. J. HORGAN: Province. It is fine for the Opposition to say we are not doing anything and that is the Opposition's role. They will be on the media tomorrow saying: "Oh, well - they will call it now, I guess, the Peckford GoverDI!Ient - it is doing nothing about unemployment, nothing at all, get rid of the the present administration." But these are the facts and I think it is important for these facts to be listened to by the Opposition.

But if you do not believe what I am saying - I hope that you do because why would any member of this House stand and lie in this place . - they can be checked out by the agencies concerned, they can verify it. And one of these agencies is, in fact, a federal/pr~vincial agency. But now, the fact is that that is good performance to some extent but we want better performance than that,as an administration. And we intend to get better performance in overcoming a problem we now recognize as a very serious problem, - the problem of unemployment.

We have had some tough times , as I mentioned earlier 1 and I feel, somewhat# that we have been burdened by a federal national government that is not being sensitive enough to the needs of the Atlantic region of Canada. They have not established policies for the aid of helping the economy. We have seen all kinds of grants coming out in LIP and FLIP and Winter Works and others.

Last year, for example, we saw the spending of $55 million in this Province on the so-called 'Make Work Programs' where a man or woman went to work long enough to be qualified for Unemployment Insurance benefits and then after that they were on unemployment waiting for the next Winter Works Program to come along. Those are only Band-aid measures. What we needed was some kind of policy to be established that would create incentives for those people wanting to invest in the Atlantic region.

Like, for example, why did not the Trudeau Government, over the past two or three years, look at the possibility of exempting the corporations or companies who 2521.

May 2,1979 Tape No. 975 SD-3 wished to invest or wanted to invest in the Atlantic region, exempt them from corporate taxes? Corporate taxes today on the 2522

May 2, 1979, Tape 976, Page 1 -- apb ----- / .A,; ~dtff' ,1(1 0 y~c. MR . MO RGAN : ~~ t he ma nuf act ur ing sector in the country of Canada is around about 42 per cent. And if the government over the past number of years would have established a policy exempting the corporations and companies who wanted to invest in this region, in this Province from paying that 42 per cent corporate tax until they got a good return on their investment, maybe 100 per cent or 150 per cent return on the total investment, then that would have attracted investment to the region and to our Province.

Or ~~ey could have invested a substantial amount of funds in the development of some of our resources we have. I look particularly at the Labrador portion of our Province and at the hydro potential down there. They have given us recognition, a recognition of what we have there and, in my view, a mere recognition of a $5 million investment to establish a Crown corporation. But I am convinced, in the past number of years we could have had that Churchill Falls, Lower Churchill Falls development ongoing.

If the federal government were sincere about developing the resources in the Atlantic region and creating industry and establishing industry in the region, they would have assisted us financially three or four years ago in getting that major project moving. It is recognized. I certainly hope it is not a mere recognition, I certainly hope after the election that the new government in Ottawa will not only be recognizing the potential with a $5 million investment, but will assist us fully in getting that major project moving which will be a major enhancement to the overall economy of this Province. 2523

May 2, 1979, Tape 976, Page 2 -- apb MR. MORGAN: There is the question of the off shore resour c es. Sure we have exploration __... ...___. work going on now at a record high level, but the question of the rights to these resources is still unresolved. And the fact that the federal government is looking at the Province of Newfoundland and saying, "We want part of these resources out there off your coast.

We intend to get part of your resources off your coast," that is not being sensitive to the poorer region of Canada, where one of these days we can become a province that will contribute back to ~~e overall economy of the country. And these are the kinds of policies we see from the present national government. But despite all these problems in dealing with the federal government, the national government, despite these problems we have had, despite the burdens of the lack of policies, in most cases, to develop our economy we have done two things over the past number of years as a government.

And sometimes it is difficult to explain to someone living out in the rural parts of the Province why we are doing them. Number one, we have exercised fiscal responsibility.

At the same time, we developed and are now carrying out plans to develop our economy by giving emphasis to our natural resources~ It has been difficult for any politician to go to a rural area, in fact,any riding of the Province and say, Look, we cannot give you water and sewer this year, we cannot give you a new hospital this year, whether it be a new hospital on the Burin Peninsula, or in the Clarenville region, or in Placentia, or in Channel - Port aux Basques, or in Bonavista, or the extension in Grand Falls, we 2524

May 2, 1979, Tape 976, Page 3 -- apb MR. MORGAN: cannot give you ~~ese things this year because we want to hold back and try to show some fiscal responsibility in managing the funds that we have, limit our borrowing. At the same time, we are going to divert some of the funds we can obtain into the resources that will eventually give us the taxation base, or the revenue base to give you these things in the future. It has been hard for me to do, as a politician, in my own district. But we have done that. We are quite opposite to what the Liberal Party is now putting forward.

I listened the last number of months and I have heard the Liberal Party talk about the following things they are going to do if they became the governing body. I think that is a very big 'if' at the present time. But they are going to pave all the roads in the Province in five years. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. MORGAN: They are going to build the hospital required for Clarenville. They are going to build the hospital required for the Burin Peninsula. They are going to build a new hospital in Placentia. They are going to build a new hospital in Channel - Port aux Basques.

They are going to build a new hospital, or the second phase, in Bonavista. They are going to give the extension out in Grand Falls. MR. NEARY: Right~ MR. MORGAN: At the same time, Mr. Speaker, they are going to subsidize the cost of electricity to the consumers in the Province. MR. NEARY: the Norma and Gladys. MR. MORGAN: We are going to tie up Would you ask that 'Burp' to be quiet please, Mr. Speaker. 2525

May 2, 1979, Tape 976, Page 4 -- apb MR. SPEAKER(Cross): Order, please~ MR. !-!ORGAN: Mr. Speaker, they are also going to subsidize the cost of drugs to consumers . They are also going to abolish school taxes. They are also going to bring b a ck mothers' allowances. And they are going to go on and on . MR . NEARY: get - MR. MvRGAN: could only have silence. MR. t~EARY: ~ve are going to Mr. Spea ker , if I (Inaudible) . MR . SPEAKER: Order, please~ I would ask the hon. the member for LaPoile (Mr . Neary) to refrain from interrupting. MR. l-!ORGAN : Thank you, Mr . Speaker . 2526

May 2, 1979 Tape 977 PK - 1 Mr. Morgan: These are the kinds of policies being put forward by the party aspiring to become the ~overnment. At the same time and in the same breath, on the opposite side of their mouths, if you want to put it that way, they are saying, Oh look at the government borrowing,all the money they are borrowing. They are spending, spending, spending.

But what they are telling us and telling the people of this Province about the way they would run things if they ever became the government, and I would say it would be disasterous and unfortunate for our Province if they ever became the government - MR. H. COLLINS: It will never happen. MR. MORGAN: - and that is very remote at this time. But if they would practice what they are now preaching, if they became the government again, and some of them were there in the previous administration, they would go out and borrow, borrow, borrow and come back and spend, spend, spend.

Now that kind of situation we cannot survive. Any individual who goes to the bank and borrows,or a loan company and borrows, borrows, borrows to buy boats and camper trailers and large cars and Summer cottages beyond their means eventually will find they will lose the whole thing, lose everything. So these are the kinds of policies that differ that party in the Opposition from the party that is now in government.

We believe in showing some fiscal restraint, fiscal management and at the same time placing emphasis in the areas of investment that require the investment to create jobs, and not to go out and merely pave a road here and there, give water and sewer here, a new hospital there because it means or it could mean the election of certain members to our party and to the House of Assembly. MR. NEARY: What about the tunnel under the Strait of Belle Isle? MR .MORGAN: It is· far better- I am sure the hon.

Premier, I have often heard him say it- that it is far better for us to be in government today knowing ~te are making the right decisions for the future of our Province than to be here making the wrong decisions and then eventually finding ourselves out of government. I would rather be outside of government in Opposition or outside of the House of Assembly, knowing that I made the 2527

May 2, 1979 Tape 977 PK - 2 Mr. Morgan: right decisions when I was here as part of government, than to remain here in power knowing I made the wrong decisions,not for our benefit as a Province. SOME HON. MEMBERS: ~-~RMN: Hear, hear~ Now, Mr. Speaker, despite these cutbacks in social programmes, despite these cutbacks in the supplying of infrastructure and services in the Province,we did indeed also embark on some fairly ~arge construction programmes. We are now carrying out a fairly substantial construction project in Hinds Lake, a hydro development pruject, $80 million. A fair number of jobs.

We are carrying out a major upgrading of the Trans-Canada Highway, a total spending of approximately, over a three year period, $60-odd million. These are large projects. They are helping one aspect of our economy, the construction industry.

And the fact that Ottawa cutback on their marine works, call them fishing marine facilities, cutback on that budget, they cutback on their federal public works projects generally, and all these kinds of job creation projects in the construction industry, combining that with the fact we cutback somewhat, there are a number of people today in the construction trade that are unemployed because of that reason. But I think that both governmentsfin this case,had no alternative but to show some restraint. And it had to be done and it was done. So like I mentioned,we came through some difficult times. However, Mr.

Speaker, it is not all doom and gloom. There is no need for any politician today, in my view, to be pessimistic about our future. If they would sit and listen to what this government's plans are, and what its policies are - I recall yesterday while listening to the Board of Trade for about, maybe two and a half hours in the Cabinet Room, and the kind of spirit of co-operation I sensed is the kind I believe will give this Province the future it deserves. Government working hand in hand with an organization that also shows concern for the 2528

r~ay 2, 1979 Tape 977 PK - 3 Mr. Moroan: future of our Province, concern for the problems we have like unemployment. If the Opposition members. and some of them over there are,I think,genuinely sincere about the problems we have, if we could work together moreso than just getting up and attacking the policies because in some cases they happen to be good for some parts of the Province, like we saw yesterday in the House, when we saw the attack on the Linerboard mill situation in Stephenville. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. MORGAN: Working together, surely we can a 11 sense the importance of our fishery. Last year the fisheries Loan Board made a record number of loans to 2529

May 2, 1979 Tape No. 978 NM - 1 MR. MORGAN: fishermen around the Province, an all-time record. That is very positive stuff. There is one little negative part right now. I said so a few days ago at a meeting with some federal authorities, that I am hoping the present freeze on the licencing of inshore fishermen will be lifted soon because I can list off at least maybe fifty potentially young fishermen who are wanting to get involved in the fishing industry but they cannot because they cannot obtain fishing licences. Only a few days ago I heard ~~.

Trudeau on a TV broadcast, and he was speaking to a group of people in Vancouver, British Columbia and he said, ''Get off your rear and get out and find jobs and go to work." Here we are in Newfoundland where we have all kinds of people who want to go to work, who know they can make a good living from that aspect of our atonomy, the fishing industry, and they cannot get licences, simply because Mr. Trudeau and his ministers' policies will not allow them to get licences. MR. H. COLLINS: That is a good Liberal. MR. MORGAN: That is the only negative

part I can see today on the fishing industry. Everything else I can see is positive. Everything is positive. And we are going to go forward in a very positive way with fishery development, with or without the co-operation of the federal government but hopefully with the co-operation of the Clarke Government after May 22nd. But we will develop the industry for a bright future. The forestry industry. The forestry industry has great potential as well. I will be speaking more on these terms tomorrow when I speak on the 2530

May 2, 1979 Tape No. 978 NM - 2 MR. MORGAN: Labrador Linerboard Bill before the House of Assembly. But the fact is that the two large companies, Price anci Bowaters, they have shown contidence in our forestry industry by carrying out some major improvements to their pulping techniques they are using in their mills, making general improvements to their mills and carrying out improvements to their pulping techniques, supplying of pulp. These are examples of their confidence in that industry.

For example,we as a government, and we were criticized for it, brought in a programme two years ago to help the sawmilling industry in the Province, an industry which was sort of falling by the wayside for a number of years. We decided we were going to assist them with working capital and we were criticized by the Opposition, it was a bad programme. Well,right now in the Province we have 1,400 sawmillers, sawmill operations. Some of them one, two, three, some twenty-five and thirty. Most of them are smaller operations, up to five people. These are all jobs, Mr. Speaker, all jobs.

And we are helping them proceed as much as possible with the policies we have, with the limited funds we have. That is in the forestry industry. The forestry industr~ by the wa~ as I mention the potential, I think we have yet to tap the potential of the forestry industry in Labrador, particularly in the hon. gentleman's area from Naskaupi. Only a few weeks ago the Department of Forestry awarded a study, a contract valued at $97,000, cost shared with the federal government, ninety-ten, ninety per cent paid by DREE, to look at the overall potential of the Goose Bay - Happy Valley area.

We are convinced as a department, as a 2531

May 2, 1979 Tape No. 978 NM- 3 MR . MORGAN: government, that there i s great potential down there for the forestry industry . If I recall correctly the inventory sh~ws 140,000 cords or cunits of wood that is now available . What we are going to do with it will be determined by the study . Hopeful~y. it will be exported . Hopefully,we will have jobs in the Happy Valley - Goose Bay area . Mr. Speaker , for the fir s t time there is a tourism industry .

Surely nobody can deny that both levels of government, federal and provincial, haveshown the initiative and have now established incentives for the tourism industry in our Province. That is going to mean new jobs. It might not be recogni zable overnight. You might not see tomorrow morning, or this coming Summe r a tremendous incre ase in the number of people employed i n the industry but you will in five years . That is being properly developed . Wi th regard t o our minerals we have a record number of claims and a record number of exploration companies working in our Province today , 2532

~lay 2,1979 Tape No. 979 AH-1 MR. MORGAN: a record number. That shows, at least,they also have confidence in this Province. It is not all doom and gloom. Mr. Speaker, we have heard so much talk about the offshore resources and I have heard the Opposition members say, many of them, the offshore resources would mean nothing to Newfoundland. Well,I can see the reason why,with the present Liberal Government in Ottawa and their attitude over the past numben of years. But the fact is, Mr.

Speaker, that this year alone,in 1979, Mr.Speaker, we are going to be employing in the offshore of this Province in drilling and exploration work 700 Newfoundlanders. Now1 if that is no benefit to our Province that could be a matter of debate,but that is a view of the Opposition. So, Mr. Speaker, these are the kinds of - MR. SI!ffiONS: (Inaudible) a year. MR. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker, please. The 'burp'from Burgeo again, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker,could I have some order please? ~EAKER:(Mr. Cross) MR. MORGAN: Order, please! So, Mr.

Speaker, these are the examples and the results of the policies and programmes and plans that this government is carrying out to create employment in our Province. And the fact that we are carrying out these programmes now­ surely the people · who have been complaining and have been critical about developing plans - you cannot develop plans overnight. The most important thing of all is that if we have something here which is going to build the economy of our Province,let us make sure it is developed in a proper, planned way. The plans have now been laid, they are now being carriecrout and the results are showing.

So, Mr. Speaker, for the Opposition to bring in - SOME HON • MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. M'ORGAN: Can I have some order, Mr. Speaker? The hon. gentleman from Burgee 2533

-·· May 2,1979 Tape No. 979 AH-2 MR. MORGAN: (Mr Simmons) comes in here and he burbles and gurgles when he is sitting in his seat. When he stands up he burbles and gurgles. Speaker, to have some order? MR. SPEAKER: (Mr.Cross) MR. MORGAN: . Order, please! So, Mr.

Speaker, it shows me that the Opposition is so bankrupt in ideas and policies and recommendations as how to run this Province and how to establish policies and plans to develop the economy, of how to overcome the problems o! unemployment that they have now to ask for a select committee to travel the Province and ask everybody out there for recommendations and suggestions. Well,I would say that ' if the Liberal party had the same kind of co-operation and co-ordination that this party in government has with different organizations throughout the Province 1 that they would not need a select committee.

We work in co-ordination with development associations, we work in co~ordination with Chambers of Commerce, the Boards of Trade, councils, all organized groups, Federation of Labour, all these groups. We work together. They make the recommendations to us and we listen. They also listen to us, vice versa.

So I will say, in clo·sirg my few remarks in this debate,that there is simply no need for this resolution to be brought in by the hon. gentleman from Twillingate (Mr.W.Rowe) asking that a select committee be appointed to travel aroung the Province to get large cross sections of the general public to give us their views and opinions as to how to overcome the problems that we have. They elected us, the people out there, all of us, not only the government side, all of us,as members of the House. They expect us to make decisions, they axpect us to show leadership, to gi~e them guidance.

Surely,if I went back to a fisherman out in Blake Cove in Bonavista Bay and said , Mr. Keough or somebody else out here, some of my good friends, we have a problem in the forestry industry 1 will you give us your recommendations? We can not solve the problem, can you help us? That is exactly what the Opposition is 2534

May 2,1979 Tape No. 979 AB-3 MR. MORGAN: asking for. They <tre bankrupt in ideas, banlt=pt in poli .cies and presently leaderless. That is their problem. Our problem is that all we need and all we ari! going to ask is a little patien~e from the people who are not getting the services they so rightly deserve like,for exampleJwater and sewer, likelfor example,new hospitals. But they can see the results of our policies, they are coming forward 2535

May 2, 1979 Tape 980 EC - 1 MR. MORGAN: now with the jobs being created. And, Mr. Speaker, the problem of unemployment is being fully recognized by Ll1l~ ~J~tinistraticn, fully ~~d totally . We have concern for the ?roblem. That is the reason why we met yesterday, as I mentioned, discussing the promotion and development of small businesses in the Province, for at least an hour and a half of discussion with the Board of Trade, because we have concern for these problems. We showed our concern and they showed theirs. We intend to work with them and others to develop these kinds of policies.

The end result will cean that one of these days in the not-too-distant future, it will clearly show in history that the policies and programmes established under the second administration since Confederation and the third now, this is a new administration now - that the policies and programmes of a properly planned, organized development of what we have to offer the rest of the country of Canada will put this Province one of these days as a proud part of the federation that we have. Thank you very much. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: (Mr. Cross) Trinity - Bay de Verde. SOME RON. MEMBERS: MR. F. ROWE: Hear, hear!

The hon. the member for Hear, hear! Mr. Speaker, to be quite frank with you, I did not know whether the hon. the member for Bonavista South (Mr. Morgan) was speaking to the motion before us or making a federal campaign speech on behalf of the P.C. Party of Canada. Sir, he mentioned two areas in which this administration opposite have been successful in gaining a total of somewhere in the area of 900 full-time and part-time jobs: one area was through the Newfoundland and Labrador Development Corporation. Now, Sir, the 2536

May 2, 1979 Tape 980 EC - 2 HR. F. ROWE: hon. member should be reminded that 75 per cent of the funds from the Newfoundland and government, point one. True, all of the funds from Rural Development comes through the provincial channel for a cotal of something in the order of 900 full-time and part-time jobs. And, by the way, Sir, he criticized the Opposition for criticizing the Rural Development Authority. Let it go on record, Sir, that not one single member on this side of the House of Assembly has ever criticized the Rural Development Authority or its concept or its ideas. MR. NEARY: Hear, hear! MR. F.

ROWE What we have asked for frantically, and we have not gotten 1 was a list of the loans in order to ascertain whether or not the guidelines 'set down by the Rural Development Authority were, in fact, being followed. Because we have discovered over the past several years that in certain cases, certain political friends got loans not necessarily within the framework or the guidelines as laid down by.the Rural Development Authority. That is the only criticism - not of the Rural Development Authority, but of the way it is being handled. MR. SIMMONS: The abuse. MR. F. ROWE: The abuse of it.

And we still, Sir, do not have a list of the loans over the past several years, for what purposes they were used and what types of rural industries were set up. Now, Sir, I find this absolutely incredible. The member for Bonavista North (Mr. Cross) stands up and talks about the great policy of his government - AN HON. MEMBER: The member for Bonavista South. 2537

May 2, 1979 Tape 980 EC - 3 MR . F. RO WE: South, I would not insult the member for Bonavista North (Mr. Cross)! The member for Bonavista South (Mr. ~organ) scands up and heaps pra1ses u~on his own administration for creating upwards of ~00 jobs. Sir, need I remind han. members , of the Tiouse that we have 35,000 people unemployed in this Province? And this member opposite is proud over the fact that the policies of his administration have achieved, have solved one thirty-~eventh of the unemployment problem in this Province. Is that what he is proud about? That is the only example that the han. member could scrape up, Sir, because most 2538

May 2, 1979 Tape 981 SD - 1 MR. F. ROWE: other jobs;as the member should know and all hon. members opposite should know,, t.le majority of the jobs in this Province are as a result of money, as it involves any government expenditure,it is a result of federal government expenditure.

For example, Sir, if one just takes a look at page 27 of the most recent budget,at the current and capital revenues,you will see that under current revenues for this year 1978-79 the federal percentage is 47.7 and the prov~cial percentage is 52.3, Just less than half the current revenues of this Province come from the federal government, that is current revenues. Now, Sir, let us look at the important one when we talk about economic basis. Let us look at capital revenues in this Province. Do you think, Sir, that one-quarter, 25 per cent, of the capital revenue comes from the federal ~overnment~ Mr.

Speaker, do you think that 50 per cent of the captial revenue comes from the federal government? Do you think that 75 per cent of the capital revenue comes from the federal government? If we had such a sound economic base, Mr. Speaker, as the member for Bonavista South (Mr. J. Morgan) has indicated, you would expect that approximately 75 or 80 per cent of the capital revenue would come from provincial sources. Not so, Sir. The estimated capital revenue from the federal government for this year 1978-79 is 90.5 per cent, 90.5 per cent.

And what is the provincial revenue1 ~'hat is the contribution of this administration opposite when it comes to capital revenue1 9.5 per cent, Ihat is some base to be proud of. Sir, this administration is milking the people of this Province dry. $300 million - AN RON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) MR. F. ROWE: No, I am going back to the Government. Tax sources from the Provincial Government; $185 million is being milked from the people through retail sales tax; $142 million, personal income tax, gasoline tax~ $41.5 million 1 2539

May 2, 1979 Tape 981 SD - 2 .!:fRf: F. ROWE: corporate income tax_; if we have a good corporate base in this Province, only $23.5 million.And, Sir, know, insignificant amounts. Sir, we do not have an industrial base, an industrial financial base in this Province. The han. member opposite gets up and speaks against this motion, attacks the Federal Government when they are providing 90.5 per cent of the capital revenue to this Province this year, thank God for Ottawa, Sir, that is all I can say.

And he has the gall to critize the Trudeau administration for its restraint programme and the restraint has not applied to the Atlantic region as heavily as other areas of this nation. But, Sir, who was the very first provincial Premier to jump up and support Prime Minister Trudeau when he announced his restraint programme; Who was the first Premier across Canada, the first provincial Premier? The former Premier opposite, Sir, of which the administration still remains, It is nothing but political hypocracy, Sir, for the member for Bonavista South (Mr. J.

Morgan) to get up and critize a Federal Government for restraint when the first voice of support came from his own former boss. And, Sir, he talks about fiscal restraint on the other side, The debt. in 1972 was $.7 billion.~ am I correct Rog~- or approximately $.7 billion. The· provincial debt back in 1971-72, it was less than one billion; MR. SIMMONS: $.9 billion. MR. F. ROWE: $.9 billion- less than $1 billion. The present provincial debt, Sir, is in excess of $2.7 billion 2540

May 2, 1979 Tape 982 PK - 1 Mr. F. Rowe: and growing. So this administration in seven and a half to eight years has quadrupled the Provincial debt. So what is all this fiscal rest;aint and icspcnsibi1ity that the member for Bonavista South (Mr. Morgan) is talking about ~ It is complete hogwash. Complete hogwash. No fiscal restraint, Sir, and worse still, still relying upon Ottawa for 90 per cent of the capital revenue coming into this Province. And having solved one-thirty-seventh of the unemployment insurance problem in this Province this year, what a shameful record, Sir. ~/hat a shameful record!

And what have they done new, Sir? What have they done new? Imagine a government eight years after taking power taking credit for opening up something that they themselves closed down, the Linerboard mill, under some dubious circumstances,we felt. And by the way, Sir, let me just retract here for one moment. I wish to go on record on behalf of my colleagues on this side of the House as being for, and not what they try to paint opposite, being extremely happy for the people of Stephenville and the Bay St. George area. At least there is some employment around the bend there.

The contract is now signed, sealed, and delivered. And it is our duty, Sir, it is our duty as the Official Opposition in this Province to uncover and make public anything that represents a waste of money or a loss of money that comes from the taxpayers of this Province. And this is why my colleague for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) felt quite free,over the last couple of days,to take on a head-on attack on the nature of the agreement with Abitibi and the present administration.

Because we know now that the people are going to get the work, but it is still our responsibility to provide1 when we get even further proof,some of the circumstances under which this agreement was signed. And my friend, I can assure you, Sir, wi 11 get the proof and wi 11 get the documentation. And they can try to smear him all they like by associating him with one John C. Doyle. But, Sir, I do not know which Prime Minister said it, I think it might have been Churchill, something to the effect that he ~1ould sup with the devil for the good of his country. And if we got to 2541

r~ay 2 1979 Tape 982 IB-2 MR. F. ROWE: get information that is in the best interests of this Province we will talk with and we will get information from the people who some feel are not necessarily savoury characters in this country or in this Province. And the analogy to be drawn there is,any police force, obviously, had to talk with both sides to get the infonnation they wanted to find out. I am not defending John C. Doyle. I am not a lawyer. I am not saying he is innocent. I am not saying he is guilty. But for the good of this Province, Sir, do not try to drag a great red herring across this hon.

House when my friend here is trying to reveal some facts simply because he is getting information from South of the border. That is such an irrelevancy and a great red herring it is absolutely sickening. Now, Sir, what is this motion all about? The motion is about unemployment and methods by which we can try to increase the employment situation in this Province. Now, Sir, I heard hon. members some ·weeks ago get up and say, "Look we know what we ·are doing over here", the members opposite, "We do not need to go around and interview some poor little old Newfoundlanders and Labradorians and get their ideas.

We can solve our own problems. We have our own ideas." The fact is we have 35,000 people unemployed, whatever percentage that is. "We have our own ideas, wee do not need to go around with a select committee." AN HON. MEMBER: 20.3 per cent. MR. F. ROWE: It is more than that. "We do not need this select committee to travel around the Province." Sir, what an insult to the ~eople of Newf~undland. 2542

May 2, 1979 Tape 983 EC - 1 MR. F. ROl-lE : Now, if I thought, Sir, that this government were capable of sound administration and leadership and guidance, and l1ad son1~ good program~~5 af their own, I would actually get up and speak against this motion. But our problem, Sir, is that we have no faith in this administration opposite, and the only solution since we are not in government is to set up a select committee and go to the people. Now, another solution is go to the people period, put her to the test.

I do not know if there is a case in Newfoundland's 400 years of history where we got a Premier elected by 200 or 300 people at a meeting down the street there. That is what we have here now, Sir. He has not sought a mandate - elected by 200 or 300 people at a P.C. convention to run the Province - he has not sought a mandate, has not come up with any solutions. The great, sweeping changes we were promised we have not seen, cannot get any information out of the present Premier. There are no policy directional changes, no changes in political philosophy that I can ascertain.

But, Sir, just listen to some of the things that have happened or have been promised over the last few years by this administration that require us to ask the government to set up a select committee to go before the people to get some of their ideas and possible suggestions for solutions to the unemployment problem in this Province. Sir, I have gone through the various speeches, campaign speeches, the old P.C.

Times rag that was put out there for a while - I do not know if it is being put out now anymore, just during elections: I have gone through Budget Speeches, I have gone through Throne Speeches and I have gone through various press releases - I only got up as far as around 1975 - and I have come up with 169 documented broken promises MR. FLIGHT: li'hat? 2543

~fay 2, 19 7 9 Tape 983 EC - 2 MR. F. ROWE : - 169 documented broken promises from 1972 to 1975. MR. S I ~ !}!ONS : MR. F. ROWE: Would you believe that? ~row, Sir, for example - I will name dates and things like that so that it can be put to the test. In 1973 in a speech it was promised that the steel mill would be maintained -'The government will maintain the 200 jobs at the Donovan's Steel mill.' What has happened there, Sir? - Reason number one why we want this select committee.

In 1974, the press conference, Sir, the Premier of the time announced at a press conference over on the West Coast a great cement plant. 'Work towards the start up of a huge cement plant on the Port au Port Peninsula is progressing favourably.' I ask hon. members, Sir, where is the foundation even to that cement plant at the present time? January, 1975, another speech, Sir. offshore concrete platforms. We talk about offshore resources - 'Two foreign firms are examining the possibility of constructing huge offshore concrete platforms in this Province. ' Sir, coined from the words of the Premier in January, 1975.

That strikes me as a funny year. Was that the election year? MR. SIMMONS: MR. F. ROWE: MR. DINN: election. MR. F. ROWE: Yes. An election year. That was four months after the That was four months after the election. He was even making promises after the election. 'Two foreign firms are examining the possibility How can that be after the election when the election was in September, 1975 and this is January, 1975? MR. DINN: I just thought you would fall for that one. 2544

~lay 2, 1979 Tape 983 EC-3 HR . F. ROI·IE : You just thought - well , you kn ow. I do not know how stupid I look. Mr. Speaker , but I do not look half as stunned as the bon . member opposite. ~I R. SI~1~!0~S: 'Gerry' you will never understand that calendar, boy- all those months. MR . F. RO!'TE: I have heard of reverse takeovers and rev~rse logic , the hon. member jus t supplied us with an example, Sir. But, Sir, a few mon~hs before the provincial elec t ion, two fi rms are examinin g t he possibility of constructing h u ge offsho re concrete platforms in this Province, coming from t!le mouth of the Premier.

Industries of deep water por ts at another press conference, October, 1974: ':!any industries are negotiatin g using d eep water ports 2545

May 2, 1979 Tape No. 984 GH-1 MR. F. ROWE: in Newfoundland. Most of them will become a reality.' Has any hon. member seen any deepwater ports de-veloped ~n this Provir.Lce since OcLob~r, 1974? It was supposed to be a reality within the near future in 1974. "An aluminum industry or something similar will be attracted to Newfoundland probably in the Bay d'Espoir area", again from the mouth of the Premier, November, 1973. "A birch plant - a $10-14 million veneer birch plant creating 350 to 400 jobs - would see a veneer birch plant and particle board plant established in the Province", 1973 speech in September.

"A hardwood industry", again in September, 1973. There must have been a by-election at that time. "There is a very real reason to believe there will be substantial development in the hardwood industry in the near future", again the Premier. "Come by Chance Oil - ". Sir, the Corne By Chance Oil Refinery, this is just unreal. I have to skip through here. In November in the P.C.

Times, that famous or infamous rag that the P.C.'s put out, in November, 1973, it was announced that first agreement renegotiated saving the Province many dollars and releasing government funds previously committed in guarantees for the purpose of building the Come By Chance or reopening the Come By Chance Oil Refinery except - this was in the P.C. Times, November, 1973 AN HON. MEMBER: Not reopening. MR. F. ROWE: Yes. P.C. Times, November, 1973, again "Negotiated on more favourable terms to the Province and this will result in an additional 1,000 full-time, high-paying jobs". You know what that was for, 'Sir?

A second oil refinery, a second oil refinery. "Many more jobs will be provided in secondary employment in the area of Come By Chance 2546

May 2, 1979 Tape No. 984 GH-2 MR. F. ROWE: with the two oil refineries", P.C. Times again. P.C. Times again, "Large construction ports - the second oil refinery will ensure the Province large construction forces, more ~ployrnent for many more years at a very high wage". AN HON. MEMBER: MR. F. ROWE: (Inaudible).' Well. Listen to this, Sir. When was this one? This was during the 1975 election. The government promised during the 1975 election that a new petro-chemical complex will be built to use and refine the by-products of the two oil refineries at Corne By Chance.

Then a press conference later, Sir, 1974, the second oil refinery in Corne By Chance will materialize. Sir, if you keep going through these releases and press releases and P.C. Times, you come across about twelve different announcements about the oil refinery and it is still not open - still not open. They rejected Shaheen. They are looking at the First Arabian deal and hoping to have something by June, is it? I would not hold your breath on that, Mr. Speaker. Deepwater ports - reasonable electric rates. MR. SIMMONS: I hear they will not even shake hands with Tarnraz these days. MR. F.

ROWE: A new petro-chemical plant, Sir. Now listen to this one, Sir. Corne By Chance, what a place this was going to be according to this administration and they criticized the previous administration for some of their ideas. In 1973 the Premier announced that the govern­ ment - revealed anyway that they had received a new proposal for the establishment of a third paper mill at Corne By Chance. So here now we have a third paper mill at Corne By Chance, two oil refineries and a petro-chemical complex. 2547

May 2, 1979 Tape No. 984 GB-3 MR. F. ROWE: CBC national radio, March 3, 1974, Premier announced a caustic soda plant, a caustic soda plant. &e~cer ii he had announced a cl~b soda pldnt. A cau~ti~ ~uda plant, Sir, would be established using the hydro-electric power from the Lower Churchill. It would be established using the hydro 2548

May 2, 1979 Tape No. 985 DW- 1 }!R • F • ROYlE : electric power from the Lower Churchill. Getting back to the oil refinery, Sir, another g~and head- to be erected in Newfoundland, a 300 5arrel per day one-half mile South of the present oil refinery. Joint signing announced by the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador, Shaheen natural resources and Technip. ! ; This was announced on March 29, 19 74 in Conne River.Probably the han. member to my right can just tell me what happened.

The PC's promised for Conne River a causeway, a sawmill, a woodcutting and carpentry shop a,eration and a programme for the construction·of prefabrication. Any of that down there? AN HON.HEMBER: (Inaudible) their promise and the other two have not been kept. MR.F.ROWE: There you go, ~r. Speaker.

In the Fall of 1975 a revised approach to the Gull Island project, "Immediate construction of the Lower Churchill Hydro site ", campai·~ speech 1975 0 "'Immediat~ clearing and construction of the transmission line across L;~.brador ".1 campaign speech 1975 • "Immediate construction of a tunnel under the Strait of Belle Isle '; 1</hat did they do, Sir? All the PCs did, I can remember~ the former Premier got up there in his raincoat blasting of the dynamite on both sides of the Strait of Belle Isle. And, Sir, the bon. member for Bonavista North (Mr. G.

Cross) got elected during a by-election based on two promises - a stadium for Wesleyville and this great industry of a blueberry pie factory for Gamba, which was announced in the middle of the by-election. Sir, I am listing off these great announcements, because that hen. crowd opposite has the gall to scoff at us for introducing a resolution whereby we are asking them to go before the people to get some ideas because not one of 2549

May 2, 1979 Tape No. 985 DW - 2 MR. F. ROWE: their ideas mentioned so far, that I have mentioned anyway, not one has come to fruition, not one single announcemenc. So if chey are not going to vote for this particular motion to go to the people, get some ideas, I suggest they make it just simple and swift, Sir. Call the election, we will straighten her up. We will straighten her up and we will cut some of the fat off the budget, an awful lot of fat off the budget, and we will get the people employed again.

Sir, in the area of Social Services, I suppose, for the want of a better expression, the things that I have announced so far which amounted to - there are twenty-seven major announcements in the area of industrial development that were to supply jobs to the people of this Province, and the result of this great programme has been announced by the member for Bonavista South (Mr. J. Morgan) this afternoon. The hon. crowd opposite have solved one thirty-seventh of the unemployment problems in this Province and not one of these great announcements has come to fruition, not one of these promises has been kept, not one.

A stadium for Wesleyville; at least that would supply some construction jobs. A stadium for the Southern Shore. When were they made? By-election campaign promises! Throne speech 1972, the beginning of the disaster with the PC administration, 'the goal of this Government is not to have the highest unemployment rate in Canada but to reach full employment.' That was contained in the Throne speech of 1972. Do we have the highest unemployment rate? Yes, we must have the highest unemployment rate - eight years later, seven years later, I beg your pardon.

Will not increase public debt; I mentioned that earlier in reference to the public debt of this Province. Sir, in the area of health which again can provide a social service but also a 2550

May 2, 1979, Tape 986, Page 1 -- apb MR. F.B.ROWE: spin-off benefit that can provide employment and other spin-off secondary employment opportunities. This administration promised year after year after year a regional hospital for Clarenville, for Bonavista, for the Burin Peninsula and for the South coast. None of them, Sir, have come. Why not? Because the government opposite, according to the member for Bonavista South (Mr. Morgan), have been practicing restraint and they do not want to put the government bellies up.

Sir, what I cannot understand is how John Crosbie,in 1969 and 1970, could go around this Province raving and ranting and roaring that the Province was on the verge of bankruptcy with a $.7 billion debt and this crowd were still, apparently, not bellies up with a $2.7 billion debt, in spite of their so-called restraint. Labrador Highway: "The government will commence a major road-building programme in Labrador with the objective a first­ class highway running from Happy Valley to the Quebec Highway system". Another government promise which would have provided employment.

Housing Needs: "lieasures to meet housing needs will be presented to the House of Assembly". I have not heard of them yet. Low Rental Housing: "The PCs will provide a concentration of low rental housing". Another campaign speech statement. Serviced Land In Urban Newfoundland: "Another programme will involve providing serviced land in urban areas". Well, Sir, out there in my rural district and in urban areas as well, I have not seen too much in the way of great 2551

May 2, 1979, Tape 986, Page 2 -- apb MR. F.B.ROWE: provincial plans for serviced land in urban or rural areas. "Hawkes Bay sawmill will be activated employing 150 people". I think my hon. friend - I am not revealing any secrets here - informed me - who represents the district today - that it is really a seasonable operation, a Summer operation. "A new r..odern sawmill at Roddickton is announced which will employ in excess of 100 people". A polytechnical institute is going to be built. Work to begin on a new polytechnical institute, year after year right up to Throne Speech 1974.

The hon. members opposite started in the 1971 and 1972 Throne Speeches. Residences: "To begin work on residences for the College of Trades and Technology and Polytechnical Institute". To begin immediately in 1973, 1974 and 1975. It would have provided jobs and a place for these young students to stay. A Province-wide educational television system which obviously would have employed people. A regional college for Grand Falls. Sir, in the area of the fisheries the hon. Minister of Fisheries (Mr.W.

Carter) finally got his answer at the leadership convention when he found out that he did not con the people of this Province into thinking that everything that has happened to the fisheries in this Province was a result of his making. He got his answer loudly and clearly. 2552

May 2, 1979, Tape 986, Page 3 -- apb MR. F.B.ROWE: Sir, the gover~men ~ and I cannot blame the present minister for this, back in 1972, "The government will introduce legislation to establish a corporation to own or lease rights on a newer fleet of trawlers". That is the Throne Speech of 1972 - which, presumably, would have employed thousands of Newfoundlanders. In Harbour Grace, Moores, April 1973, another trawler fleet is mentioned. "A trawler programme is an established fact. The initial plan is for the construction of twenty trawlers for use as a government fleet to pool catches or for leasing to companies".

This is Moores in Harbour Grace in 1973. In January 1973, be!'ore that, a $40 million trawler fleet. "Government intends to introduce legislation to establish a $40 million fund for trawler construction". A new assistance 2553

May 2,1979 Tape No. 987 AH-1 MR. F.ROWE: programme for inshore fishermen, new markets for our fish, new income support programme for th.:: fi.;,hermen ." And I am looking for this other one. I must not have documented it.

In 1977, Sir, in the PC Times- talk about announcements about trawler fleets, Sir, in the- PC~ in November of 1977 a $60 million trawler fleet."Government has decided to establish a trawler programme at a cost of $60 million over the next three years!' That is the fifth trawler fleet programme that I have announced, SirF And then, Sir, later on-before this, even before this, four years earlier 7 before this, in the PC Times "Many hundreds of jobs on fishing trawlers based on a $60 million trawler fleet programme.' 1 I suppose if you say something long enough and hard enough people begin to believe it.

This must be the psychology they are operating under. ''Twenty new ships to be built ilmnediately;'in November 1973. And the member for Kilbride (Mr. Wells) over there, Sir, took it on himself - I do not think he was a minister at the time, in an

article in the Evening Telegram announced to the world and Newfoundland that the Navy should patrol the fishing areas. As if he had any jurisdiction over the Navy. The member for Kilbride (Mr.Wells), sitting in the provincial legislature announced in the Evening Telegram that the Navy should take over the patrol of the fishing areas. It is not a bad idea I might add, not a bad idea. ''Fish to be processed in the Province and a mineral processing programme.

PCs will encourage mining companies to refine and process within the Province and create new jobs for people.'' Sir, I could go on, and on, and on, with promises, but look, Mr. Speaker, can I simply say this, that just sitting home on one weekend, and strangely enough with nothing to do, and fingering through various Throne speeches and Budget speeches, PC press releases and PC Times - I do not know why I actually file away PC Times in the privacy of my home but it makes some comical reading, Sir, at bedtime. It is not as good as the 2554

May 2, 1979 Tape No. 987 RT-2 MR. F. ROWE : Liberal Tide -but, Sir, I came up from 1972 to 1975 with 169 unkept promises, mostly involving jobs for the people of this Provin~e. Now, Sir, is it any wonder that the Leader of the Opposition, because of the unemployment situation in this Province, asks this simple question and asks for support to this motion. ''Therefore,

be it resolved that a Select Committee of this House be appointed to hold hearings in a wide variety of areas of Newfoundland and Labrador for the purpose of obtaining ideas of a large cross-section of the general public including representatives of labour unions, business associations, and the academic community, as well as interested individuals regarding the development of job opportunities in this Province.'' Sir, after I have documented over - and I am not going to bore the House, I can lay the list on the Table of the House.

The fact of the matter is that this Administration has failed utterly and miserably and shamefully in providing jobs to the people who need jobs in this Province, and they have the gall and audacity to attack the Federal Liberal Government who, I re-state, are providing this Province with 90.5 per cent of the capital revenue this year. 90.5 per cent of the capital revenue for this Province comes from the Federal Government. 47.7 per cent of the current revenue comes from the Provincial Government and, of course, most of our Provincial revenue comes from, as I mentioned before, the retail sales tax and the personal income tax, not 2555

May 2, 1979 Tape 988 SD - 1 MR. F. ROWE: _from a good financial, fiscal, economic base on industry , or rural Newfoundland or anything else. ~ir, 1 find ~t extremely sad that this Government, eight years later, has failed utterly to provide the people of this Province with the badly needed jobs that are required. And, Sir, what is even sadder is that this list of the 169 documented broken promises from 1972 to 1975, it would be doubled if I went from 1975. If I continued on my research from 1975 to 1979, I am sure it would be doubled.

And I am sure / if I researched what was said on Twillingate and New World Island alone.during that by-election, it would be tripled,the promises that were made up there, Practically every single Cabinet Minister, Sir, was running around New World Island and Twillingate Island promising everything from can you imagine, Sir, the Premier of this Province telling a fisherman, "Yes, no problem, I will get your salmon licence for you," and he has no more to do with salmon licences, Sir, provision of a salmon licence to a fisherman in this Province than I had. to do with the provision of a salmon licence to somebody off in Japan,fishing off Japan.

It comes completely under federal jurisdiction. What I am getting at, Sir, is that the sad and dismal aspect of all of this is that we had a nice guy Premier, tremendous smile, an affectionate guy. I liked the former Premier) he was a very personable chap. He could get along quite well with people. He would belt you on the back and make you feel at home. AN HON. MEMBER: Only on the back. MR.. F. ROWE: He could belt which every way you wished to belt with him. But the point is, Sir, what has been the result?

The result has been that the people of this Province) their expectations have been raised so high, so very high,their expectations are very highJ they look at the great 2556

May 2, 1979 Tape 988 SD - 2 HR. F. ROWE: future of this Province and day after day goes by and we keep seeing the unemployment rate increase. This business of the offshore mineral and oil bit, let us not tool ourselves, Sir. When we are talking about exploration we are talking about ten to fifteen years. When we are talking about exploitation after successful exploration we are talking about another ten or twenty years.

The benefits to be gained, Sir, by this Province as a result of offshore mineral and oil exploration and exploitation, let us be honest with ourselves, are down the road the great benefits to be derived. I hope they do not happen too soon because rapid development in a so-called rural part of the nation, this highly industrialized, highly technological rapid development could ruin the very way of life of our Province, And to be quite frank with you, I do not want to see uncontrolled rapid development.

I would like to see controlled, moderate, sensible development of the offshore mineral and oil wealth, hopefully, off our shores so this Province can gain. But let us not go around waving the flag about the hundreds and the thousands of jobs that are going to be iMmediately available to the people of this Province. I rang up Dr. Stuart Peters there four or five weeks ago about the supply vessels because there were several people in my office looking for jobs on the supply vessels.

I said, "How many jobs are there available for this1" lie said,"There are two or three hundred jobs." Am I right - two or three hundred jobs7 AN HON. ~!EMBER No. MR. F. ROWE: No! Now this is just Dr. Stuart Peters.Then there is another chap in charge of several other companies, Mr. - I cannot remember his name, but one chap is co-ordinating all the other oil firms and Dr. Stuart Peters is taking care of the offshore supply vessels. He said"' "Two or three hundred jobs are available. Now, this is four or five weeks ago. 2557

:iay 2, 1979 Tape 988 SD - 3 ~; HON. }1ENBER: You j usc said two or t hree. HR. F. RO\VE: If I said two or three it should be four or five. I said, "l:low many appl ication s do you have in chere ?·· And I have to correct myself again for the record, it ~as t he sec ret ary I was talk ing to, She said, ·~e have in excess of 2,5 00 applica t ions 2558

May 2, 1979 MR. F. ROWE: MR. DINN: MJ:{. L ROWE: MR. DINN: MR. F. ROWE: Tape No. 989 GH-1 for two or three hundred jobs.'' It is over 2,800 now. It is over 2,800 now, my friend (Inaudible) 700 jobs at least. Well, that is the total. MR. DINN: That is not the total jobs, that is the total Newfoundland jobs. MR. F. ROWE: That is the total - yes, the total Newfoundland jobs for the whole works. I am talking about the offshore supply vessels that are being co-ordinated by Dr. Stuart Peters. 'rhe hon. minister is talking about the total program.

So I would suspect that when you talk about the total program we are talking about four or five or six thousands applications on hand. MR. DINN: No, 2,800. MR. F. ROt'ffi: Well I am telling you there are 2,500 sitting over in Dr. Stuart Peters' office. MR. DINN: Ee gets the same list and they are all co-ordinated from my department - MR. F. ROWE: Well, that was not the impression that I was given. MR. DINN: - and it is updated all the time. MR. F. ROWE: Well, why then do I have to make representation to two different people if it is being handled only by one. MR.

DINN: Well, if you could read the ads in the paper you would not have to because - MR. F. ROWE: I read the ads, my dear fellow. Mr. Speaker, I apologize for this expression. The ads, Mr. Speaker, are pinned on my bulletin board down in my office so I know 2559

May 2, 1979 Tape No. 989 GH-2 MR. F. ROVffi: whereof I speak. And,Sir, I support this particular motion wholeheartedly for the reasons that I have given and i hope that han. mt!.ltLV~.L.'S OJ?pv::.it.: _,_ u.u not do what the member for Bonavista South (Mr. Morgan) did and that is get up and make a political speech for poor old Joe up there on the mainland. He is not going to make it anyway. Trudeau will be returned. The boys are boxed in over opposite, Sir. They do not know what to do, do not know what to do. They know Joe is going to win. MR. SIMMONS: The PCs are third in the popular vote - MR. F.

Ra•lE: They do not know when to call the election here in this Province because of certain volatile situations. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) MR. WHITE: No, boy. MR. DOODY: You said six (inaudible). MR. WHITE: At least six. MR. F. ROWE: I thank hon. members, Mr. Speaker, for completing my speech because I only have minus ten seconds left.

But, Sir, before I sit down I simply say that for the reasons that I have given, namely, all of these broken promises that involve the supply of employment opportunities, I think that this motion is extremely necessary and I hope that it will receive the full approval of the House. And unless the government or any member opposite can provide us with proof positive of examples of where they will be putting on stream tomorrow morning at least half of the required jobs in this Province, I will continue to vote for this particular motion • . 25SO

May 2, 1979 Tape 989 GH-3 MR. SPEAKER: (ottenheimer) Hon. member for Grand Falls . MR. LUNDRIGAN: Mr. Speaker, I welcome the resolution which is bt:!fore l.:ile a:ouse foL th~:: simple redson that it does give us an opportunity to look at the unemploy- ment question in a debating forum. In a sense, I suppose, there is no need of even a vote because this is a committee, although it is not resolving itself into a committee because the legislature itself is a committee of the representatives of the people and on a daily basis questions about the economy and unemployment should be ongoing.

In that regard, I guess, there is no need of voting for or against the resolution because we are doing exactly what the hon. member is looking for, having a debate and receiving comments. and hopefully if we are doing our work as members of a ~ ' . legislature,we are in touch with our constituents and are aware and conversant with their feelings as well. Mr. Speaker, I listened to the member. I have no difference of opinion with the member in the sense of wanting to argue with him, but I just listened for 45 minutes now.

I did not interfere with him and I do not think anybody did and I was waiting sometime during the 45-minute period for the member from Trinity-Bay de Verde (Mr. F. Rowe) to present to the legislature what he and his party stand . for in terms of economic development, job creation, what proposals they had, what they feel are the differences that they have with respect to the stance of the present government so that at least we could get some kind of what we could call a political saw-off. Here we are here with a particular approach. Here are the people in the opposite party with another approach.

I did not hear a single, constructive suggestion from the han. member. 25G1

May 2, 1979 Tape No . 989 GH-4 MR. LUNDRIGAN: I Listened to the hon. member go down through a list of what he called broken promises and icl.;nt l .Ei.t:::d areas of thi .ngs that had noo:: been achieved. i heard him say what was wrong with everything that has been done and I never heard a comment at all about what he stands for,or his party,in terms of economic development. I did pick up one important poi.nt, Mr. Speaker. Be went on to apologize for the remarks of the member for Lapoile (Mr. Neary) and indicate 2562