VOL. 3 PRELIMINARY UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PERIOD: 3:00 p.m . - 6:00 p.m. TUESDAY, MARCH 3, 1981 No . 2

~1arc:'"! 3 r 1981 The House met at 3:00 P.M. ~r. S9eaker in the Chair. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): Tape No. 37 DW - 1 Order, please! I am sure hon. members would like to join me in welcoming to the galleries today twenty-eight Grade XI students from Victori.a school in Gaul to is, John Watkins School in Hermitage and Seal Cove 1ntegrated School in Seal Cove,accompanied by their four teachers from the district of Fortune- Hermitage. We hope they enjoy .their visit. SOt-I...E HON . MEMBERS : Hear, hear! STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS MR. SPEAKER: MR. G. OTTENHEIMER: The hon. the Minister of Justice. Mr.

Speaker, I would like to inform hon. members of certain matters with respect to the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary. Since the new management was put in 9lace less than a year ago,a number of significant changes and improvements have taken place. Among the most important of these that I would draw to hon. members attention, are (1) the development of a recruitment selection procedure in co-operation with the Public Service Commission which includes entrance exams, fitness tests and medical standards.

For the first time in the history of the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary,members are appointed as the result of public advertising and open competition. Secondly, the use of the Atlantic Police Academy training facilities to provide recruit training to the recently appointed new members of the Constabulary. 95 ''I ''i

March 3, 1981 Tape No. 37 DW - 2 MR. G. OTTENHEI.M...ER: Thirdly, the appointment of women to the force for the first time. Fourthly, commencement of a five week management training course for approximately fourtee~ non­ commissioned officers of the force being carried on by personnel from the training

section of the Public Service Commission in co-operation with the Constabulary. Fifth, the development of a three week course to instruct constables on such matters as law enforcement, courtroom procedures and handli~g of exhibits. Further in service training has also been given on the interaction of ~he police function with various social service agencies such as the Unified Family Court and the Juvenile Court. This ~rogramme will be expanded to provide more advanced training to more senior constables.

Sixth, the development · of fire­ arms training, utilizing the new facility at the recently completed Constabulary building. Seventh, attendance by members at the various training programmes outside the Province with respect to advanced training, explosive disposal and forensic pathology. Eight, participation in the Law ~forcement ·Review C..ommi ttee set up by the Department of Justice to .integrate the activities of the department, the RCMP and the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary. Ninth, establishment of a Crime Prevention Unit which works closely with citizens 1 groups and the business community.

Ten, the organization of a telecommunications centre. Eleven, the development of an improved police radio communications system soon to be put into place. 96 .. ,,, ' . ..

March 3, 1981 Tape No. 37 DW - 3 MR. G. OTTENHEIMER: Twelve, the introduction of an improved criminal record and reporting system. Also, the implementation of a new 97

March 3, 1981 Tape No. 38 NM - 1 MR. OTTENHEIMER: patrol car policy which envisages replacement of patrol cars on an annual basis, 100,000 kilometer mileage, or kilometerage. The transfer of the meter duty from the Constabulary to the City of St. John's thereby relieving the force from the responsiblity of performing a non-police function.

(15) The development of a performance evaluation system.

(16) The development of a criminal intelligence unit which will assist the criminal investigation oivision in combating organized crime, major criminal activities, and drugs. These measures demonstrate the competence of the Constabulary management and justify the confidence that the Department of Justice places in them. As hon. members are aware, within recent days there has been some public controversy on the subjects of overtime and sick leave. The Constabulary management has the obligation to ensure adequate policing of the area within its jurisdiction.

The Constabulary management also has the responsibility, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, to ensure that public funds, the taxpayers' dollars, are spent appropriately. I am confident that the Constabulary management is fulfilling both obligations in a satisf _actory manner. Members of both sides of the Labour/Management Committee have indicated concern as to whether a small minority might be taking advantage of sick leave and overtime. I have therefore, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, today requested the Auditor General to look into and report upon public expenditures in 98 .. ,

----- ·--.. ---- March 3, 1981 Tape No. 38 NM - 2 MR. OTTENHEIMER: the areas of overtime and sick leave and the measures taken by management to ensure the proper expenditure of public funds. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : MR. THOMS: The hon. member for Grand Bank." Mr. Speaker, the statement that has been tabled in the House this . afternoon, given in the House this afternoon by the Minister of Justice, confirms without a doubt everything that I have been saying about the present Minister of Justice (Mr.

Ottenheimer) since I have been elected to this House of ~ssembly and have been the sp:>kesman on t:pis side of the House on Justice. ·we have a Minister of Justice who refuses, absolutely refuses to take his head out of the sand to see exactly what is going on in the Newfoundland Constabulary. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. THOMS: Mr. Speaker, you know,obviously there is something improper going on if the minister decides that he has to call in the Auditor General to look into the books of the Newfoundland Constabulary in connection with the overtime and sick leave; there is something going on. Mr.

Speaker,he refers in his statement to the development of firearms training, utilizing the new facility at the recently completed Constabulary building. MR. NEARY: MR. THOMS: He should send the RCMP over. One of the problems is that we have an emergency tactical unit in the Newfoundland Constabulary that is being manned by untrained police officers. There may be police officers on duty when this unit is used 1 but they are answering a call down to the Battery or into another area of town. And what happens? Untrained policemen are sent out. 99 .. , ''i ..,

March 3, 1981 Tape 39 PK - l MR. THOMS: Mr. Speaker, of course the Constabulary management has the obligation, and so does the government ha~e an obligation to ensure the adequat~ policing of this area . Mr. Speaker, I can assure the Minister of Justice (Mr. Ottenheimer), and if he would take time to look at some of the rosters of the Newfoundland Constabulary he \qill see that the City of St. John's, a city the size of st. John's, 100,000 people, at times is being policed by as few as. six Constabulary members in three cars.

I ask the Minister of Justice to check the rosters, to look at them, not to believe what he : is being fed, not -to t-ake as gospel . wha -t he is . being fed by the Chief of Police in this City, and what he is be~ng - . ·-··--- fed by his own people in the Department of Justice. The minister may not be deliberately misleading this House, but I think if he took the time himself to look into these matters he would find that what the Police Brotherhood and what the policemen of this City are saying is true.

The question of the muzzling of the Police Brother- hood; the Minister of Justice can have his say, the Chief of Police can have his say, everybody in most democratic socities or all democratic socities can have thier say - MR. NEARY: I thought this crowd brought democracy to Newfoundland: MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order. MR. SPEAKER (SIMMS): Order, please! A point of order has been raised by the han. President of the Council (Mr. Marshall). MR. MARSHALL: Mr.

Speaker, it is well recognized that Ministerial Statements,both in giving them and responding to them,that one is not to get into the area of debate. I submit 100 .. , .. ,

March 3, 1981 Tape 39 PK - 2 MR. MARSHALL: thqt the hon. gentleman is in the area now of debate when he is going into a long area. SOME RON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh ~ MR. MARSHALL: I would also point out to Your Honour that it is customary for the responses to be somewhat brie£.er by a ha .l.f· than the statement itself, and the hon. gentleman now is going as long as the minister. MR. THOMS: To the point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (SIMMS): nrder, please~ The hon. member for Grand Bank (Mr. Thoms). MR. THOMS: Mr. Speaker, to that point of order.

Actually I am-not getting into the realm of debate, I am .just trying to point out some of the relevant facts in connection with the statement made by the minister. MR. SPEAKER (SIMMS) : With respect to the point. of order, it is a relevant point. Hon. members are aware that the member replying to ·Ministerial Statements made seek clarification, make a few comments ., but in any event it takes about half of ---· ... ---· the time that a minister does in presenting the statement. The hon. member according to my calculation has about ten seconds which I will still allow him. MR. THOMS: Mr.

Speaker, without being punning, I would just like to conclude by saying that this particular statement by the Minister of Justice (Mr. Ottenheimer) is a complete cop-out of what is really happening, of what is really going on in the City of St. John's. There should be an independent commission, it is what the police want, and why not let them have it. Let it all hang out, Mr. Minister, What are you afraid of? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear~ 1 0 1 .. , ''I

March 3, 1981 Tape 40 EC - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Simms): Order, please! Hon. members, too, would like to welcome, I am sure, sixty Grade III students and their teachers from St. Andrew's School in St. John's from the district of St. John's North. We hope they enjoy their visit. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The hon ·. the Minister of n<>velopment. MR. WINDSOR: Mr. Speaker, I am announcing today the list of preferred sites which have been determined by government for three major petroleum-related developments.

The following sites have been judged best suited for the activities described and are listed in alphabetical order only. Analysis of sites was based on the assumption that the Hibernia area would most probably be the only area developed during the next ten years. However, if other fields come onstream during this time frame, ranking of preferred areas could change drastically and other factors would have to be considered in light of the location of new offshore fields. Those listed for permanent supply/service bases: Argentia, Bay Roberts, Botwood, Harbour Grace, Seal Cove and St.

John's; for steel platform construction: Argentia, Botwood, Bull Arm, Corner Brook and Mortier Bay; for concrete platform construction: Bull Arm, Come By Chance, Corner Brook and Hall's Bay. A new category, Satellite supply/ service base,was added during the early part of the process. This was to accommodate a need for small, seasonal bases predominantly in the North that will improve operating efficiency for offshore drilling operations. The preferred sites listed for this category are: Carmanville, Happy Valley - Goose Bay, Hopedale, Long Pond - Manuels, Main Brook and St. Anthony. 1 0 2

March 3, 1981 Tape 40 EC - 2 MR. WINDSOR: Although Long Pond has be.en included in this group, its primar~ function will be to provide overflow capacity for the port of St. John's. Preferred sites have not been established for module fabrication and assembly nor for pipeline landfall. In the f·ormer case, all the sites nominated have a good labour supply, adequate transporta­ tion network and sufficient·land to accommodate this type of operation..

The salient factor therefore in the ranking of sites would be the cost factor associated with proximity to the platform construction facilities and will be taken into consideration during the development approval process. Only one site had been identified for pipeline landfall and was thus not subject to competitive comparison. I am also releasing the preliminary evaluation document which was prepared by government officials upon which the preferred list was based. This document outlines the criteria and ranking assumptions established for the preliminary evaluation.

Each of the thirty-two sites - the nineteen designated by government in th.e Premier's statement "Policy and Plans for Control of :n..arge Scale onshore J?>etroleum Related O.evelopments" of October 17, 1980, and the thirteen subsequently nominated by the public and released on December 5, 1980 - were ranked against a number of physical, social, economic and environmental factors. These factors were not weighted in the prelL~inary evaluation process as the judgement on the relative importance of environmental factors, social factors and cost factors 1 0 3 ' t

March 3, 1981 Tape No . 41 SD - 1 MR. N. WINDSOR: involves government policy and is clearly a judgement to be made by Cabinet. The selection of preferred sites reflects the considered opinion of government. All of the sites, with the exception of St . Anthony, Main Brook and Hermitage (owning to weather conditions and time restrictions) were vis .ited by a two-man team consisting of a civil eng~neer and an environmentalist and an initial physical review of each site was undertaken.

During these visits, the team met with local officials, development associations, interest groups and proponents for the area to get their ~nput to e ~ plain what the evaluation procedure entailed and to establish whether or not obvious environmental or social concerns existed. The various site profiles contained in this report were compiled on the basis of existing information maps, charts, reports and information provided by various federal and provincial departments. A complete list of sources used is given in the report .

I would like to make it clear that the establishment of this preferred list is a 'first round' process only and does not preclude government consideration of other areas in the Province at some future date .. We realize that we are at a very preliminary stage in offshore petroleum development and are therefore providing a mechanism whereby subsequent developers may put forward proposals which might be premature at this stage. Guidelines for development proposals have also been defined and are given in Appendix A of the report.

These constitute the conditions upon which development proposals will be judged and they include the disclosure of certain corporate information, details · on financial and technical capability, a listing of facilities the developers propose to provide as well as a listing of the facilities which the developer expects government to provide. 1 0 4 ·, ,, ..

March 3, 1981 Tape No. 41 SD - 2 MR. N. WINDSOR: The guidelines are consistent with the Newfoundland and Labrador Petroleum Regulations, 1977, and require detailed information respecting sources of local goods, services and labour. In accordance with the

schedule of events as approved by the Premier in his October 17, 1980, statement, I am now inviting development proposals for the development, design and construction of one or more of the designated facilities at one or more of the preferred sites which have been listed. These proposals may be delivered to the Department of Development " before May 1, 1981. These proposals then will be subsequently evaluated. Any or all of these proposals may be rejected. If a proposal is accepted, a conditional approval to proceed will be announced on June ~' 1981. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : MR. G.

WARREN: The hon. member for Torngat Mountains. Yes, Mr. Speaker. Pirst I would like to thank the minister for giving me an advanced copy of his re:- lease.However, as 1ve can understand from his opening remarks is that this government should not hang all of its eggs in one basket and depend on Hiberna for all the answers to all our economic problems in this Province. Mr. Speaker, the minister said that only one site has been identified for a pipeline landfall and was thus not subject to competitive comparison.

The minister did not mention that site and furthermore I am wondering if the minsiter is trying to evade the whole question altogether,that there will not be a pipeline coming into the Province. ) 105 •• J ''I

March 3, 1981 Tape No. 42 EL - 1 MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, first,it did take the minister about five months to put.together those site preferences and I would say those five months have given the developers chances to go elsewhere,such as Halifax and surround­ ing areas,and if we are not careful and continue to come up with more constructive workings of the economy of this Province, then before we know it our economy will be taken away from us and developers will be going elsewhere. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): Any further statements-? DR. COLLINS: MR. SPEAKER: DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker. The hon. the Minister of Finance.

Mr.Speaker, I" would like to bring the House up-to-date on matters pertaining to labour-manage­ ment relations in the Public Service and to detail again Govern­ ment's offer to certain bargaining units in order that Govern­ ment's position can be properly understood.

Members may reca ,ll that collective bargaining has rece 'ntly been successfully concluded, usually with the assistance of conciliation officers or conciliation boards,with the following groups: General Service, consisting of three thousand employees; Maintenance and Operational Ser­ vices, consisting of twenty-four hundred employees; Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corporation, St. John's, consisting of two hundred employees~ Newfoundland and Labrador Hous -ing Corporation, Stephenville, consistinq of thirty-five employees; Public Lib­ raries Board, consisting of eighty employees.

The combined number of these employees total 5,715 workers and,as I said, these accepted -Government's offer to them. Closely associated with some of these groups, the worker~ at the Trades College and the Workers' Compensation Board~ comprised of a total of 135 public ern- ployeeslare now separate bargaining units. At one time the maj­ ority of employees in these units were part of one or more of ,I 106 ·- ,,

March 3, 1981 Tape No. 42 EL - 2 DR. COLLINS: the groups mentioned earlier. The job classifications at the College and the Workers' Com­ pensation Board parallel those in other parts of the Public Service and for practical purposes Government conside-rs the worke ·rs at the College and the Workers' Compensation Board as essentially in the same category of employment as their brother and sister workers in the bargaining units mentioned earlier.

We recognize at the same time that because these employees work for somewhat independant Crown agencies, individual differences in certain terms and conditions of employment may be j.us ·tified in some cases. Indeed, a number of such local issues were resolved in negotiations with the Trade College group including the provision of a Christmas break to employees of that group. As membe-rs are aware, the workers at the Col .lege commenced a s·trike on November 7th, past. The main issue is the monetary one, wi .th sett ·lement having been ach­ ieved or identified as achievable on other matters.

Govern­ ment's position has been that the monetary package already accepted as fair, reasonable and equitable by the much larger general service group is also fair - MR. s. NEARY: Do not be so foolish! MR. SPEAKER(SIMMS): Order, please! DR. COLLINS: the much smaller SOME HON. MEMBERS: DR. COLLINS: the college. MR. SPEAKER: DR. COLLINS: - reasonable and equitable by Oh, oh! - but similar group of workers at Order, please! Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I mush again lay out the details of Government's monetary offer to clarify any minunderstandings hon. members or the general public might have.

Government's offer is as follows over a two year contract: 107

March 3, 1981 Tape 43 EC - 1 DR. COLLINS: One, effective April 1, 1980, increases on all salary scales of 8 _per cent or $1,000, whichever is greater; two, effective January 1, 1981, increases on all scales of $100; in addition, step move­ ment through the pay scales continues with cash bonuses for employees on the top step; three, effective April 1, 1981, increase on all salary scales of 8 per cent; and four, effective January 1, 1982, increase on all scales of $100; in addition, step movement through all pay scales continues with cash bonuses for employees on the top step.

Now, what is the effect of these increases- to employees at the Trades College? The average salary scale increase over two years is just under 23 per cent. In addition, the cash payrrents in lieu of step move­ ment provide a further $220 averaged over the group. It should further be noted that government's offer is structured so that the lowest paid workers receive proportionately higher increases. In fact, the lowest paid worker will receive an increase in e'Xces-s of 25 per cent - in actual fact it is 25.9 per cent-over the two years.

At the end of the present contract, the average salary at the Trades College bargaining unit will be $13,205 per annum, or $7.36 per hour. SOME' HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER (Simms): Order, please! DR. COLLINS: I would like to inform this House of the status of various other sets of collective bargaining negotiations which are currently ongoing. Farm Products Corporation SOME HON. MEMBERS: DR. COLLINS: difficulty, In the case of the Newfoundland Oh, oh! Mr. Speaker, I am having some 1 0 B ''i '•j .. ''I

March 3, 1981 Tape 43 EC - 4 MR. SPEAKER (Simms): Order, please! Han. members to my right will have an opportunity to respond. The. hon. the Minister: of: Finance. DR.. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, I make that inter- jec.tion because han. members opposi.te apparently do not understand g.overnment 1 s offer and I am trying· to lay it out for them. SOME. HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! DR. COLLINS: In the case of the Newfoundland Fa·rm Products Corporation, this dispute is now being dealt with by a conciliation board. Some meetings were he,!.d with the conciliation board last week and progress was made.

In the case of negotiations with the Province 1 s 8 ,.000 teachers, the conciliation board set up to deal with this dispute will be commencing meetings with both sides some time this week. In the case of the Nur.ses 1 ba~gaining unit, a conciliation board has been appointed to deal with this dispute and both sides have nominated a representative to this board. Negotiations are also actively ongoing with a number of other groups including the tab and X-Ray group, the Association of Allied Health Professionals, the Police Warders and the Province's Vocational and-Technical Inst-ructors. MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Terra Nova. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, we on this side of the House are quite concerned with respect to the labour situation in this Province today, and . obviously v1hat the minister has done is to put forward the most optimistic

interpretation of these figures. Mr. Speaker, it is so easy to manipulate percentages, 109 ''I .. ' ' 'I ''I ''I

March 3, 1981 Tape No . 44 DW - 1 MR. T. LUSH: If the minister believes that he satisfied the public "or the workers con­ cerned with these figures here today,he has another thought coming to him. Now, Mr. SoeakP.J:". ··•hen you are talking about 8 per cent of salaries under $]0,000 and less you are not talking about very much 1 and that is the crux of the matter. And, Mr.

Speaker, the statement here indi­ cating that the government is satisfied that their position is a fair and equitable one certainly does not speak -well for the government when we hear that there are workers working at the College of Trades and Technology for saiaries less than they would receive if they were on social assistance. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Shame! Shame! MR. G. FLIGHT: Less than if they were on social assistance. MR. T. LUSH: That does not sucrrrP.<>t: t"l-\at i_t is very equitable or that it is very fair. Suffice it to say, Mr.

Speaker, we are anxious to see these disputes resolved and we hope that in the next few days that the President of Treasur y Roard (Dr. Collins) or that the Minister of Labour and Manpower (Mr. Dinn) will take some action, will take some positive steps to see that these people, that these units are brought back to the bargaining table and that we get labour/management relations going on an even keel in this Province. MR. G. FLIGHT: It is disgusting to see the sight. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): Any further statements? 11 0 ''r

March 3, 1981 Tape No. 44 DW - 2 ORAL QUESTIONS ~~. SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. the member for Grand Bank. MR. L. THOMS: Mr. Speaker, I have a question I would like to direct to the Minister of Justice (Mr. Ottenheimerl . I was wondering if the Minister would confirm whether or not he has set up a JUdicial in­ quiry into the shooting incident in the Avondale are~ I believe it was last Friday night,when a sixteen year old teenager was shot to death by a member of the RCMP? . MR. SPEAKE-R: MR. G. OTTENHED1ER: The hon. the Minister of Justice. Yes, Mr.

Speaker • Ac .tually yes- terday the necessary action was taken to establish a judicial court inquiry into that incident and it is the Chief of· ·the Provincial Court, Judge s·cott 1 who will be conducting it. MR. L. THOMS: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAl<ER: A supplementary, the hon. member for Grand Bank. MR. L. THOMS: Mr. ~ryeaker, a supplementary to the Minister of Just ·ice. I believe it was just a few days ago in New Orleans,one of the policemen there shot somebody in a parade and there was an immediate relieving of that particular officer from duty pending the outcome of the• investigation.

I was wondering if the minister could indicate to the House what the normal procedure is in situations such as this vis-~-vis the police officer in question, and whether the police officer in question has been in fact relieved of his duties pending the outcome of the investigation? 1 1 1 '·I . .. ,

March 3, 1981 Tape No. 44 DW - 3 MR. SPEAKER (Simmsi: The hon. the Minister of Justice. MR. G. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, the normal procedure is that the Commanding Officer of the force, in this case the Commanding Officer of the RCMP in the Province, would 11 2 ''l

...:~ March 3, 1981 Tape No. 45 NM - 1 MR. OTTENHE IMER: make that decision. I understand that a preliminary internal police force enquiry is completed. The decis ·ion of the commanding officers of the RCMP has been not to relieve that constable of his duties and I have not inte·rf·erred therewith. MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : member for Grand Bank. A final supplementary, the hon. MR. THOMS: I am not surprised the minister has not interferred, Mr. Speaker. I was wondering if the minister could indicate to the House whether or not·the report of this judicial enquiry ~ould be made .Public once he receives it. MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Justice. MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, without doubt the report will be made public when it is completed. I would presume it will start within approximately a two to three week period because there are certain reports and forensic analysis and that to be completed. It is quite a serious matter so the hon. gentleman really should be quiet over there. I certainly give a full undertaking that the report will be made public. Yes. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. STIRLING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I have a question for the Minister of Finance or the President of the Treasury Board (Dr. Collins). It appears that the government intends to continue its practice of avoiding debate by making ministerial statements,But now that he has made a ministerial statement on the labour situation, and in view of the very serious problems that they have been warned about, now that he has made this statement, could the minister tell us what action he is going to initiate to let the Treasury Board get back to negotiation?

Making a statement in the House of Assembly is one thing, but getting back to actual negotiations, 1 •j 3 ..,

March 3, 1981 Tape No. 45 NM - 2 MR. STIRLING: sitting down with the union and bargaining in good faith, what action will be taken to get that started? MR. SPEAKER (Simms :) :. The hon. Minister · of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, I think the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Stirling) does not really understand the processof collective bargaining. SOME HON. MEMBERS : SOME HON. I1EMBERS: DR. COLLINS: oh, oh! Hear, hear! If he will listen for a minute I will try to give him a very brief course in it. The government and the bargaining unit, through NAPE, negotiated and made offers one to the other.

The labour union then broke off negotiations and went on strike. This was not a government activity, a government action, a government initiative~ This was an initiative undertaken by the union in breaking of·f negotiations, obtaining a strike vote, and going on strike·.

Since that time,government has been in constant contact, through a conciliation officer, with the union to understand if there has been any substantial change in their attitude toward things and there have been discussions between the union and the conciliation officer and . the conciliation officer and Treasury Board,but there have not been any negotiations between the two for the very reason that 11 4

Marcy 3, 1981 Tape No . 46 SD - 1 DR. J. COLLINS: the union has indicated it wishes to break off negotiations and undertaKe strike. action and government has not received any word from the union since that time tha.t they w-ish to reverse tha.t position, i.e .1 to desist from strike and to return to the negotiating table. MR. L. STIRLING: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): of the Opposition. MR. STIRLING: Supplementary, the hen. the Leader Yes, Mr. Speaker, I certainly thank the hon. doctor for that lesson in labour relations. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The hen.

Leader should refer to the hen. minister,not to the hon. doctor. MR. STIRLING: The hen. minister, who I understand is a doctor-and I certainly hope he knows more about doctoring than he does about ministering. MR. TULK: Or collective bargaining-. MR. STIRLING: Mr. Speaker, do I understand then from what the minister says that the government has adopted the attitude that as long as the strike continues the government will not take any action to resume negotiations? MR. TULK: MR. SPEAKER: DR. J. COLLINS: That is what he said, yes. The hon. Minister of . Finance. Mr.

Speaker, it is difficult for me to say what the hon. mem.ber understands because his . questions indicate such a very minimal understanding of the ~ituation. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. DR. J. COLLINS: What · I did say was that government through the conciliation officer, who has been given to both sides bv the Department of Labour and Manpower, which is the usual mechanism, government is in continual contact,practically on a daily basis,with both sides. And when there is any substantial matter that is reported to us by the conciliation officer which would suggest any forward movement, we are only 1 ·1 5

Marcy 3, 1981 Tape No. 46 SD - 2 DR. J. COLLINS: too pleased, indeed anxious, to look at such an initiative on the part of the union . and we, of course, have also given the conciliation officer certain facts to pass on to the union for them to consider. MR. STIRLING: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : the Opposition. MR. STIRLING: Supplementary, the han. Leader of Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the minister a very simple question which even he would understand. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR.

STIRLING: Will the minister direct the Treasury Board to resume negotiations with the workers involved in this strike - simply yes or no? Will he direct them to resume negotiations or have they given a specific instruction to the T·reasury Board that because there are only 135 involved,. they are not to make any moves other than to offer the 8 pe;r cent, the ma .gic 8 per cent? Could we have those two specific, simple questions answered? MR. SPEAKER: DR. COLLINS: The hon. the Minister of Finance. Mr. Speaker, I think the hon.

Leader of the Opposition has brought out a very, very good point there, i.e., the 135 workers at those two institutions are to be compared with the other members of the Public Service who are in the same type of job category, 11 6 .

·-- ---- ---------- -- ----~ .. ~ March 3, 1981 Tape NO. 47 EL - 1 DR. COLLINS: that is,over 5,700 so that 135 has to be put against the 5,700-plus workers in the same job categories who have found Government's offer to them f·air, equitable and accept-able despite the. advice to the contrary by the executive of NAPE.

So I think that the hon. the Leader of the Opposition has brought outa very good point here: There is a very small group of workers over there which are not accepting Government's offer which has been accepted by an over­ whelming majority of their "' 7orkers in the Public Service doing similar types of jobs.

In regard to whetherr there will be further discussions or negotiations or cornrnents,or whatever one wants to call them~ as soon as the Union brings something forward to Treasury Board that is of a substantial nature 1 or as soon as they accept anything from Treasury Board that we have giveq to them and they wish to talk about it, we will be only too pleased to do so. MR. LUSH: MR. SPEAKER (Simms): for Terra Nova. MR. LUSH: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary, the hon. member Mr.

Speaker, a couple of days ago a statement was made to the effect that either presentl~or with the increases that the minister is now talking about, that there are workers at the College of Trades and Technology receiv­ ing salaries lower than or equal to what they would re~eive if they were on Social Assistance. I think it was that they were receiving salaries lower than that,so =uld the minister =ment on that statement? MR. SPEAKER: The hon.the Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Mr.Speaker, just a brief little

preamble to my remarks befor~ answering that specific question and that is that I would like to make sure that everyone under- stands what Government's offer is. 11 7 'I

----------~ - March 3, 1981 Tape No. 47 EL - 2 DR. COLLINS: It has been said that Government's offer to the workers is an eight per cent increase. That is in­ correct,or at least it is only partially correct. The eight per cent is only one part of the monetary package that the government has offered to the workers. It is eight per cent plus, plus, plus, plus, plus which adds up to nearly twenty-three per cent over the two year packet on an average,and for the lowest paid worker nearly twenty-six per cent.And I would like to reiterate that, Mr.

Speaker: Nearly twenty-six per cent in­ crease over the two years of the contract for the lowest paid worker. Now, in terms of the hon. member's question as to the level of pay that the lowest paid worker would get, the answer is no, it is incorrect, This was brought out, I believe,in an advertisement. The advertisement, I think, said something to the effect that the take-home pay of the lowest paid worker would be less than the Social Assistance given to a couple with two children. That is incorrect. MR. LUSH: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR.SPEAKER (Simms): A supplementary, the hon. member for Terra Nova. MR.

LUSH: Mr. Speaker, the minister rrentions in his statement today, and I will quote., it says, "At the end of the­ present contract the average salary of the Trades College bar­ gainging unit will be $13,205 per annum or $7.25 per hour. As all han. members know,,averages can be deceptive. The average of $13,000 would have some people receiving in excess of $13,000 and some people beneath, lower than that amount.So can the minister indicate the extremities of the salaries at the College of Trades and Technology under this new arrangement?

Can he give us the low and the high from which this average was attained? 11 8 •..

March 3, 1981 Tape No. 47 EL - 3 MR. SPEAKER (Simms) .: The hon. Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Yes, Mr. ·Speaker, I can give this. With these increases,the lowest pay at the end of the two year contract will be · $10, 4-6·7 and the highest, if he wants the ex- treme,will be $21,308. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, this is Education Week " SOME HON . MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. NEARY: - and we have a number of re- presentatives from NAPE sitting in the Gallery.

I am sure that the whole Gallery would be interested to know today that the government in the last couple of years spent $200,000 dollars on a package including a comic book. There are 27,000 copies of this comic book, Mr. Speake -r Your Honour did not see it before, I do not believ~ ·- 27,000 store in a building at Pleasant ville and they have been there for the last two years. MR. LUSH: Your Honour does not know what he is missing. MR. NEARY: _Since this is Education Week, would the Minister of Education (L. Verge) tell the House and the People of this Province who paid $200,000 dollars for this rubbish?

What is to become of the 27,000 comic books that are store in a build- ing down at Pleasantville ? I will table these copies, Mr. Speaker. 11 9 ''I •;J '·I

~. March 3, 1981 Tape 48 PK - 1 MR. SPEAKER (SIMMS) : Order, please! I would prefer if the hon. member would not table them at this particular time. The practice in the House is that · exhibits cannot be tabled, and I am not qui .te sure what

interpretation could be placed on this mate ·rial. But I will allow you to ask your question in any event ·. MR. NEARY: Well, the comic book is titled - Mr. Speaker, I believe all han. members should have a copy because it may be a collector's item in a few years time - the comic book is titled The Spirit of Newfoundland and Labrador, and the other comic book, Where Do I Go From Here? Can the hon. minister tell us what is -going to happen to these two comic books? MR . SPEAKER (SIMMS): The ·hon. Minister of Education ~ Mr. Speaker, the two books in MS.

VERGE: question as well as a game, The Great Newf .oundland Race Game, which the han. member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) has on his desk, and two series of films, were commissioned not by this government but by the previous administration - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MS. VERGE: - for use in the schools of the Province.

The underlying idea, which I think was sound, was to enrich the materials used in our schools to give our young people a better understanding of our own Province, a goal which I am sure all hon. members will support, and, secondly, to instill in our young people the desire to become entrepreneurs and to develop our own resources. The materials arrived in bulk only about a year ago - less than a year ago.

They were then placed in storage at the Education Department's school textbooks warehouse and during the current school year, starting in September, the materials have been in use in five school districts throughout 120 .. ''I '-I •·.

,.------- .,. we ~...- .. ...- L=". March 3, 1981 Tape 48 PK - 2 MS. VERGE: the Province where they have been piloted to dete~ine just how best they can be used in our schools, to determine what age levels, what grade levels can best use the materials, what subjects and courses can be complemented. We have asked the department - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER (SIMHS) : Order, please! MS. VERGE: r .. -- - to keep evaluations from a couple of the school districts. When we receive reports from all the school districts we will dacide what use can best be made of the materials.

This is in keeping with sound education policy and tactics. MR. NEARY: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (SIMMS) : A supplementary, the hon. member fo~ LaPoile (Mr. Neary). NR. NEARY: Hr. Speaker, I have four children in school. I hope this is not the way they are going to be· educated with The Spirit Of Newfoundland Ahd Labrador. I would rather they had Mr. Stirling's col':'.ic book, Captain Newfoundland. It is more educational. SONE HON. MENBERS: Hear, hear! NR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the bon. minister indicated some of the material. What_ portion of this material?

Could the minister be more specific and tell us whether it is the comic books that are now being filtered through the school system? Is it this game that looks like a game of Snakes and Ladders with dice in it and so forth, Mr. Speaker, -look! Snakes and Ladders, dice! Are the kids now rolling dice in the schools? Is this game being sent out to the schools? 1 21 ' ' I .. , ..

-· --------------~-----------------------------------.m.----~~~ March 3, 1981 Tape 48 PK - 3 SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. NEARY: And, Mr. SP.eaker, the han. minister cannot get up and make a statement in this H?:use like it was not that administra.tion that bought this rubbisn. It was this administration that bought it. The han. minister cannot distinguish MR. SPEAKER (SIMMS). ~~~~~~~~~~~· Order, please! Order, please~ The han. member, I believe, is being argumentative now. He has a question? MR. NEARY: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I will come back tp my question.

What is happening to the game; and what is happening to the comic books? Is this the material now that is being - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER (STMHS) : Order, please! MR. NEARY: Is this the ma.terial now that is being experimented 'I>Tith in the schools? MR. SPEAKER (SIMMS): The hon. Minister of Education. Mr. Speaker, all of the material MS. VERGE: which I listed including the comic books or- story books, the game, and the two series of films are being piloted in about five school districts in different locations in the Province. MR. LUSH: Which ones? MS.

VERGE: The school districts include theTerra Nova Integrated School Board based in Gander. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MS. VERGE: The Pentecostal S~hool Board 1 which includes the whole Province, Newfoundland and Labrador; the Deer Lake Integrated School Board; the Avalon North Integrated School Board, and,I think 1 one other. It is a representative sample of schools of the Province, and school boards responsible for those schools are now pilot testing the materials and will 122 ' 1

March 3, 1981 Tape 48 PK - 4 MS. VERGE: be ~dvising the department on how best the materials can be used. When that advice is all received the department will evaluate it and will make the best use possible of the ma te .rials which were commissioned and paid for by the previous adm~nistration . MR. NEARY: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (SIMMS) : A final supplementary, the hon. member for LaPoile. MR . NEARY : Mr.

Speaker, included in the package was a teacher's manual; I understand there are 300 a There are 500 games, 27,000 comic books, and 300 teacher's manuals in storage down in a building at Pleas 'antville and they have been there for the last couple of years, paid for 123 .. ''1 .. ''1 ''1 ''1

March 3, 1981 Tape 49 EC - 1 MR . NEARY: by this administration, of which the Premier was a senior minister. The Premier was a senior minister in that administration and the Minister of Social Services (Mr. Hickey) was a senior -minister and the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan} was a senior minister. And I could go on and on - the Minister of Health (Mr. House) - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : Order, ~:aase! MR. NEARY: They cannot weasel - SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER: MR. NEARY: of their responsibility. MR. SPEAKER: I could go on and on, Mr.Speaker. Oh, oh! Order, please!

They cannot weasel their way out Order, please! The han. member is a veteran of this House and he knows that he mus~ put his question when he ·is directed by the Chair. Would he put his question, plea ·se -? MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker - MR. SPEAKER: MR. NEARY: Nothing sets the devil in me more, I know. - than to see somebody try to weasel his way out of things, trying to weasel his way out of it. The Teacher -'s manual, three hundred :Teacher's manuals: I saw the minister on television one night saying that this was not up to scratch. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: MR. NEARY: Now, what about - SOME HON.

MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! This was not up to standard. Oh, oh! Order, please! 124 "I

March 3, 1981 Tape 49 EC - 2 MR. SPEAKER (Sirnmsi : The hon. member is now making a speech. Would he please direct his q-uestion? MR. NEARY: Well, what is to become of the Teacher's manual? Is that being used in the schools .? Will it be used in the school or wil~ it find its way down to Robin Hood Bay? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education. MS. VERGE: Mr, Speaker, the Teacher's manual accompanies the film series and that is par .t of a total package which, as I said before, is being pilot tested in five school districts in the Province. We have a sunk cost now.

We have the material, the concept is a good one, and we will make the best use possible of the material which is now in storage. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear: MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Windsor - Buchans. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear: MR. FLIGHT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My ~uestion is for the Minister of Labour and Manpower, Mr. Speaker. Would the Minister of Labour and Manpower indicate to the House how many mining inspectors are now with his department?

Has there been a reduction in the number of mining inspectors normally with his department and what is the number right now available to the industry? MR. SPEAKER: and Manpower. The hon. the Minister of Labour ~· DINN: Mr. Speaker, I do not know the exact number. I believe we are hiring one next week. 1 2 5 '') .. , ..,

March 3, 1981 Tape 49 EC - 3 MR. DINN: I am not sure, so rather than give the han. member incorrect infopmation, I will get the information and give it to him tomorrow. MR. SPEAKER (Simms}: MR. FLIGHT: MR. SPEAKER: Taken as notice. Mr. Speaker, a supplementary. A supplementary, the hon. the member for Windsor - Buchans. MR.

FLIGHT: Would the minister indicate to the House if his department in recent times has been requested by the mining industry, either by management or by unions representing men working in the mines, whether or not they have requested the services of a mining inspector and the department has not been able to acknowledge that request because they did not have the manpower, they did not have the mining inspectors to make available upon the request of unions ·? Is the minister aware if that has happened in his department in recent times? MR. SPEAKER: and Manpower. MR. DINN: The hon. the Minister of Labour Mr.

Speaker, the mining inspectors generally do their inspections on a regular basis. There are times when they are requested to do certain things that are not considered at that particular time to be . as important as the job they are doing. There are some times when, for example, we may get a request for a mining inspector to go to Labrador West when we have somebody up there and when we have sufficient information coming in on Labrador West, and thus we would not accept a request from the union for a mining inspector to go up there.

So there may or may not have been requests by unions or management for a mining inspector to go to a particular site, but that is a decision that is made within the department and I am not aware of any particular cases or any adverse effects caused by the fact 126 ''I .. , 'I

March . 3, 19.81 Tape 49. EC - 4 MR. DINN: that a mining inspector did not go when he was requested. MR. FLIGHT: Mr.. Speaker, a supplementary . MR, SPEAKER (Simms): A final supplementary, the hon. the mernbe:r for Windsor - Buchans. MR. FLIGHT: Mr. Speaker, there have been in the past, in the recent past, requests made by people concerned about conditions in mines for a mining inspector and the department has not been able to send a mining inspector because they do not have the necessary inspectors.

Would the minister confirm there is now presently only one mining inspe.ctor, one m.ini.ng inspector with th.e Department ''I of Labour and Manpower and one only, a.nd that the reason there is one only is that the department has had difficulty hiring mining inspectors because of the level of pay that they are prepared to pay them? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Labour and Manpow·er. MR. DINN: The hon. member is inccrrect. MR. STAGG: Again. '·r MR. DINN: Again. MR. SPEAKER: Further questions? MR. HISCOCK: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Eagle River. MR. HISCOCK: Mr.

Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Transportation. Would the Minister of Transportation report to this House any progress with regard to the house that ltr. James Turnbull of Charlottetown had to evacuate? The house, because of the way the road was constructed last Summer, the house flooded, and because of the season down there, with the coldness, there is now two feet of ice all the way through the house; and Mr. Turnbull has had to leave his 127 ' I

March 3, 1981 Tape 49 EC - 5 MR. HISCOCK: house and go move around the conununity with friends. Would the m;!.nister please inform this House what action has the Department of Transportation taken? SOME H-0N. MBMB·BRS: MR. HISCOCK: MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : Transportation. MR. BRETT ': Oh, oh! It is very funny, is it not? The hon. the Minister of MI:.

Speake1:, this is the first time I have heard about that and, of course, that is not unusual because of the weather that we have had this past two months - or a month or more - there · has been all kinds of flooding all over the Province, people 's ba·sements and maybe up in their kitchens as well. It is not unusual for people to allege that it is the fault of the Department of Transportation. You know, know, they lash out at the first one. So if this has happened, . then it is regrettable, but whether or not it is the fault of the department is another thing.

The hon. member alleges that it is because of the· way the road was bui~t. Well, that may be so, but I would like to think that before the allegation is made or before the department takes any steps to do anything it would have to be proven that, in fact, we did cause it. MR. HISCOCK: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the member for Eagle River. 128 .. ,

March 3, 1981 Tape No. 50 NM - 1 MR. SPEAKER (SIMMS): Order, please! MR. HISCOCK: With regard to the way the road was constructed, there was no culvert put in thexe. People said that the road was constructed last Summer in a bit of a rush. I have a letter here now on behalf of Mr. Turnbull in which over $3,000 worth of damage was done to the house. SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEA K.t<R: Oh, oh! Order, please! Hon. members to my right and left are giving me great difficulty. I cannot hear what the han. member is saying. MR. HISCOCK: Over $3,000 worth of damage was done to the house.

Could the minister inform me whether he will be looking into this problem with the view of compensa .tion being paid to Mr. Turnbull? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Transportation and Communications. MR. BRETT: Mr. Speaker, the han. minister will not be looking into this 1 I can assure you 1 because if I have to start looking into these kind of problems then I am afraid I will not be sitting in the House very much in the next three months. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR.

BRETT: But I can assure the han. member that my staff will he looking into it and if in fact this damage was caused because of the way the road was built or because of some neglect or whatever on the part of my staff, then a decision will be made as to whether or not the man would be compensated, you know,if it is our fault. 1 2 9 ..,

March 3, 1981 MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : member for Eagle River. MR. HISCOCK: Tape No. 50 NM ·- 2 A final supplementary, the han. With regard to Charlottetown, some of the · residents have expressed the concern --and this wash-· out or flood came as a result of snow-a lot of the residents are concerned in Charlottetown tha 't now with the Spring run off other houses may be affected. If they are affected can the Minister of Transportation _ a~d Communications (Mr.

Brett) inform this House whether they will . send in the Department of Transportation to Charlottetown again next year to do further repairs and upgrading of the road? MR. SPEAKER: The han. Minister of Transportation and Communications. MR. BRETT: Yes, Mr. Speaker. If it is determined that because of the way the road was built, you know,there are flooding problems ,then of course the department .will go in and make attempts to correct it. MR. SPEAKER: The hen. member for LaPoile. MR. HANCOCK: You are in trouble in your district, boy. I was up there the weekend. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister of Social Services if he would care to take advantage of the first day in the House to elaborate on his dismissal-or suspension of a n .umber of social workers at Grand Falls for refusing to put social assistance in trust for a mystery client? Would the hen. gentleman care to tell us what procedure was used ·in that particular situation in Grand Falls? 130 ., .,

March 3, 1981 MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : MR. HICKEY: Tape No. 50 NM - 3 The hon . Minister of Social Services. Mr. Speaker, I do not intend to provide any details on that matter. It is before an arbitration hearing, through the- union, and all of those matters will be resolved and the hon. gentleman, despite his position as stated through the media, he will get his answer then and so will everybody else. There is no mystery client 1I might say there never was one 1 and there was no wrongdoing . MR. SPEAKER: for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: A supplementary, the hon. -member Mr.

Speaker, I asked the hon. member if he would indicate to the House the procedure that was used in this particular case. would the hon. gentleman tell us if the procedure was normal procedure? Was it a - ---- --- -- - departure from procedure .? Just what is the procedure that is used in this case! would the hon. gentleman tell the House? .MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Social Services. MR. NEARY:

Section 10 of the Social Assistance Act,_~r. Speaker, was followed to the letter. Normal procedure which has been the case for more than a decade or maybe two. MR. NEARY: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: member for LaPoile. MR, NEARY: A final supplementary, the hon. Would the . hon. minister tell the House if the hon. gentleman and/or his supervisor in Grand Falls instructed a social worker to put social assistance in trust for a client and refused to tell the social worker the name of the client? MR. SPEAKER: MR. HICKEY: The hon. Minister of Social Services. Completely erroneous, Mr .

Speaker, The hon. membe~who is a former minister of this department 1 should know better than ask such a question . 1 31 L ·-·

------------ ---- -- ------ ------ -- -.~ ---- ~ ~------- March 3, 1981 Tape No. 50 NM - 4 MR. NEARY: I do but I know - MR. HICKEY: Re knows the supervisor too. MR . SEEAI<ER (Simms): We have time for one final question. The hon . member for Windsor-Buchans. MR . FLIGHT: Mr. Speaker, I would ask the minister that i£ the course he followed was quite normal,how come we had a work stoppage in Grand Fal~s and all the social assistance staff out on strike for two days supporting - there were suspensions, all the employees of social welfare were out on picket lines for a day backing up their fellow workers, the people who have been repr~anded by 132 .. , ... .,

f<iarch 3, 1981 Tape No. 51 SD - l MR. G. FLIGHT: the minister's officials . How come if everything was so normal that that took place? MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : MR. T. HICKEY: The hon. Minister of Social Services. Mr. Speaker, I said the issuing of assistance was normal, I did not say the matter of suspensions was normal. I made that abundantly clear. I am not aware of any work stoppage, Mr . Speaker; ?eople were working while that was going on. There were some people suspended; those were the people who were walking around with pickets. MR. FLIGHT : MR. HICKEY: MR. SPEAKER: SOME HON. ~EMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: expired.

No! Yes. Order, please! Oh, oh! Order, please! The time for Oral Questions has PRESENTING REPORTS BY STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Finance. DR. J. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, in compliance with the Financial Administration Act, 1973, I have the honour of presenting the Public Accounts for the Province of Newfoundland for the year ending 31 March 1980. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. DR. COLLINS: At the same time, Mr.

Speaker, in compliance with the Financial Admin2stration Act, I would like to table the Re~ort of the Auditor General to the House of Assembly for the same financial year, that is, the year ending 31 March 1980. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear. DR. COLLINS: And at the same time I would like to table the Departmental Observations on the Report of the Auditor General for the same year, that is, the fiscal year ending 31 March 1980. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. 1 3 3 .. ,

March 3, 1981 MR. SPEAKER (Simms): MR. SPEAKER: MR . N. WINDSOR: Tape No. 51 SD - 2 Further reports? NOTICES OF MOTION The · hon. Minister of Development. Mr. Speaker, I give notic~ that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The Newfoundland And Labrador ~ousing Corporation Act For The Purpose Of Integrating The Newfoundland And Labrador Hnnsing Corporation And The St. John's Housing Corporation". And I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, "An Act To Repeal The Canada Bay Lumber Company Limited Agreement Act, 1974". MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER EECKFORD : Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, "An Act Respecting The Re-organization Of Certain Government Departments And Matters Related Or Incidental Thereto". MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Labour and Manpower. MR. J. DINN: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce the following bills, "An Act To Amend And Consolidate The Law Respecting Boiler, Pressure Vessels And Compressed Gas", "An Act Respecting Amusement Rides", and "An Act To Amend The Workers' Compensation Act". MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Culture, Recreation, Youth and Environment. MR . R. DAWE: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce the following bills, "An Act Respecting The Department Of Environment", "An Act Respecting The Drilling Of Water Wells And The Conservation And _use Of Ground Water", "An Act To Amend The Historic Objects, Sites And Records Act, 1973", "An Act To Establish The 134

l ·~ -- ----------------------------------~-----------.~~~ March . 3, 1981 Tape No. 51 SD - 3 MR . R. DAWE: Newfoundland And Labrador Youth Advisory Council", "An Act To Amend The Public Libraries Act, 1975" . MR. SPEAKER lSimms),: The hon. MinLster of Finance. DR. J. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, "An Act To Amend The Financial Administration Act, 1973"; also, "An 1\ct To Amend The Mining And Minerals Rights Tax Act, 1975"; also, "An Act Respecting The Ga.rnishment Against Remuneration Of Public Officials". MR. SPEAKER,: The hon.

MinLster of Education. MS. L. VERGE: Mr. Speake ·r, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce the following bi~ls, "An Act To Amend The Local School Tax Act", and, "An Act To Amend The Newfoundland Teachers' Association Act, 1974". MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Justice. MR . OTTENHEIMER: Mr.

Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce the following bills, "An Act Respecting The Freedom Of Information", "An Act To Amend The Judgement Recovery(Newfoundland)Act", "An Act To Amend The Proceedings Against The Crown Act, 1973", "An Act Respecting The :Protection Of Personal Privacy", "An Act To Amend The 1\ttachment Of Wages Act", ''An Act To En-able Insurance Corporation Of Newfoundland LLmited To Become A Federal Cor:pora.tion", "An Act To Repeal The Income Tax Discounters Act", "An Act To Amend The Change Of Name Act, 1978", "An Act To Amend The Newfoundland Human Rights Code", "An Act Respecting Private Investigation,nnd Security Services".

MR. SPEAKER: Th .e hon. Minister of Municipal Affairs. MRS • H. NEWHOOK: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce the following bills, "An Act To Amend The Assessment Act", and, "An Act To Amend The Urban And Rural Planning Act". 1 3 5

March 3, 1981 Tape No. 51 so - 4 MR. SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. Minister of Mines and Energy. MR. L. BARRY: Mr. Speaker, I would like to join in deluge of legis-lation by giving notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, "An Act To Amend The Electrical Power Control Act", and also, Mr. Speaker; I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, "An Act To Am~nd the Department Of Mines And Energy Act, 1973". MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Health. MR. W. HOUSE: Mr.

Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce the . following bills, "An Act Respecting The Newfoundland Association Of Optometrists And Governing The Practice of CJptometry In The Province", "An Act Respecting Denturists", "An Act To Amend The Human Tissue Act, 1971", "An Act To Amend the Embalmers And Funeral Directors Act, 1975", "An Act To Amend The: Medical Ac .t, 1974", "An Act Tb Amend The Hospitals Act, 1971" and - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh. MR. SPEAKER: MR. HOUSE: SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! "An Act Respecting Dispensing Opticians". Hear, hear.

Any further notices? 136 ''I

March 3, 1981 Ta)?e No. 52 DW - 1 MR. SPEAKER (.SIMMS) : The hon. Minister of Forest Resources and Lands. MR. C. POWER: Mr. Speak~r, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, "An Act To Amend The Timber Sc.aler' s Act ·". And I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, "An Act To Amend The Development Areas Lands Act-" . MR. SPEAKER: tion. MR. c: BRETT: . The hon. Minister of Transporta~ Mr.

Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce the following bills, "An Act To Amend The Highway Traf -fic Act", "An Act To Amend The Motor Carrier Act", and "An Act To Amend The Highway Traffic Act To Provide For The Compulsory Use of . s·eat Belts". M..'R.. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Social Services. MR. T. HICKEY: Mr. Speaker, I give notice I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, "An Act To Amend The Child Welfare Act, 1972". SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh , oh! MR. SPEAKER (SIMMS): MR. W. MARSHALL: . ~R. SPEAKER: President of the Council. Order, please!

A ~oint of order, Mr. Sneaker. A point of order, the hon • 1 3 7 ,, .

,.,; March 3, 1981 Tape No. 52 DW - 2 MR. W. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, "ou cannot hear yourself think let alone anyone who fll up on his feet hear himself speak. SOME HON. MEMBERS: .MR. SPEAKER •( Simms) : MR. W. MARSHALL: Oh, oh! Order, please! Now the fact of the matter. is, Mr. Speaker, that this is the people's House, it is the House of Assembly,and when a minister or a member of the government is up and attending to a matter of public business he is entitled to be heard in silence. And-I think we have had a great profusion of the other type of conduct during the first hour of the sitting. MR.

SPEAKER: With respect to the point of order,I think there is a legitimate one but I miqht also add that I believe it is fair to say ~~~t there have been some disturbances perhaps on both sides, and sh\i:f:n·in.g.··of- ---. papers and so on. So I would ask and pTead-wlth all hon. members that when a member is speaking that he observe his right to speak in silence. The hon. Minister of Fisheries. MR. J. MORGAN: M.r. Speaker, I give notice I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, "An Act To Amend The Fishing Industry Advisory Board ll_ct of 1975". MR. SPEAKER: The hon.

Minister of Rural, Agricultural and Northern Development. .M".R. J. GOUDIE: Mr. Speaker, I give not·ice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce two bills, "An Act To Amend The Co-operative Societies Act" and "An Act To Amend The Department Of Rural, Agricultural And Northern Development Act". 1 3 8 •.. ,

March 3, 1981 Tape No . 52 DW - 3 MR. SPEAKER (Simmsi: The hon. Minister of Public Works and Services. MR. H. YOUNG: The last to let you down, Mr . Speaker. I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a· bill entitled, "An Act To ~~end The Department Of Public Works And Services Act

(1973) With Respect To Government Printing". MR. SPEAKER: Any further notices? 000 PRESENTING PETITIONS !YI_R. SPEAKER: The bon. member for LaPoile. MR. S. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, it gives me a great deal of pleasure to present a petition on behalf of 149 residents of the community of LaPoile. As bon. members know, La ·Poile . is an isolated community situated on --- - . . - -·' -... the Southwest coast. And I might say at the outset, Mr. Speaker, that the same remarks that I am goina to make apply to thP. communi t·ies of Grand Bruit and Petites.

I believe I have a similar petition from Grand Bruit in my office,but the one I am presenting today has to do with LaPoile where the residents are complaining about the medical services that they are receiving in their community,especially the visitations by the doctor from Port aux Basques. The prayer of the petition, Mr.

Speaker-, reads as follows: 'We, the undersigned, being residents of LaPoile in the electoral district of LaPoile, humbly showeth that medical services on the Southwest coast of Newfoundland have deteriorated to the point where human life can be seriously affected and that we have reached the limit of our endurance in this regard and request that government take some serious action to remedy this problem before a life or lives of 1 3 9 .. ,

March 3, 1981 Tape No. 52 DW - 4 M...~. S. NEARY: residents have been lost due to inadequate medical services." A very, very serious matter indeed, Mr. Speaker~ One would think in this day in age that it would be hardly necessary at all to present a petition in this hon. House asking for something as basic as a vist of a doctor to their community or a vist of a public health nurse to the communities of LaPoile, Grand Bruit and Petites. One of the hig complaints, Mr.

Speaker, that residents have in these three isolated. communities, especially in the Fall of the year and in the Wintertime when · the doctor schedules a trip to LaPoile, for instance, and because of weather condi .tions he cannot make the trip on the day that he is scheduled to make it,then he postpones his trip until the next trip is due which is probably about two weeks away or a mcnth away. In other words, Mr. Speaker, what I am saying is that the doctor will not go to the community;then,when weather permits the helicopter or the 140 .. , .,

March 3, 1981 Tape No 53 EL - 1 MR. NEARY: airplane to fly, he will wait until he is due his next trip. s 0 sometimes you have a month in between visitatinns by the doctor from Port aux Basques and the doctor, in the case of Grand Bruit, I think from Burgee. So, Mr. Speaker, as I indicated you would not think it would be hardly necessary in this day and age to have to come into this House thirty~two years after Confederation and ask the House, implore the House, beg the Minister of Health (W.

House) to please see to it that the good people of LaPoile, Grand Bruit and Petites have, at least, a visit from a doctor once a week or once every couple of weeks. MR. STAGG: ( Inaud _ible) . MR. NEARY: I have already brought it to the attention of the Minister of Health. Mr. Speaker, I have an opportunity to pass through Stephenville, I suppose twenty­ five or thirty times a year,and I would not give very much now for the bon. gentleman getting another term in that particular part of Newfoundland. So, Mr. Speaker, I would like to hear the Minister of Health's comments on this petition.

It is a very worthwhile petition. It may - because of the number of people in­ volved, the government may not think that there is all that many votes in these communities but they are human beings. We are talking about human lives. We are talking about the health of our people and I hope, Mr. Speaker, that the Minister of Health and the government will now take the request from the people in - ., - - ~- ~- --., ,, . -. these three remote communities, seriously for a change. I cannot say for sure that anybody has lost hi~ or her life as a result of this negligence.

I cannot prove it but there is a good ch 2r ~~- '1r. Speaker, that people have lost their lives or there has been unnecessary suf fering as a result of this negligence on the part of the Department of Health. Anal hope now, Mr. Speaker, now that 149 good people in 1 41 ~ ,

March 3, 1981 Tape No. 53 EL - 2 MR. NEARY: the community of LaPoile have petitioned this hon. House to have this situation -remedied, to have the situation corrected,that the Minister of Health (W . House-) will take whatever steps are necessary at · an early a date as possible to see that these three communities get regular visits from a doctor and regular visits from a public health nurse and look into the possibility, Mr. Speaker, of establishing a medical clinic and a nursing station in . all three communities. MR. STIRLING: MR. SPEAKER (Simms): MR. STIRLING: Mr. Speaker.

The bon. the Leader of th~ Opposition. Mr. Speaker, I rise to support the petition so very ably presented by my colleague. That problem is getting to be a problem all over this Province, particularly in rural Newfoundland, Mr. Speaker. This government expresses such a great concern for rural Newfoundland 1 and pays such great lip ser­ vice to rural New£oundland 1 that there are many parts of this Prov­ ince where the basic services, the basic medical services, the requirements to treat a child, the requirements to guarantee the same kind of benefits that everybody takes for granted, Mr.

Speaker, this petition is one of many that can come from many parts, in- eluding my own district of Bonavista North,where the government has been so caught up in the great romantic idea, the great battles that they like to be fighting, that they have gotten away from the basic concerns of people, the right to such basic services as medical attention.

And I hope that the Minister of Healtf1, who .. is a-man who has those same co~~er~~ will put up a fight with his colleague~ will fight to the end with his colleague~ _ to gE?t a decent share of the budget so that these people in LaPoile and the other areas referred to by my colleague, that these people will get fair and equitable treatment. AN HON. MEMBER: Hear, hear! 142 .. , .. , ·-·~

March 3 , 198 1 Tape No. 53 EL - 3 MR. SPEAKER (Simms): The han. Minister of Health. MR . BO USE: Mr. Speaker, I just address the petition and I think both speakers went a little bit away £ram the prayer of the petition. I think it is basically to get re- gular visits from doctors to the area. That is se .t up ., already :i.n '"'J.ace. The doctors: from the hospital in Port aux Basques are servicing that area. ... , J 143 "] . .

March 3, 1981, Tape 54, Page 1 -- apb MR. HOUSE: The problem comes about when the_ scheduled visit takes place; the helicopter is not available -if the weather is bad they cannot get down, the-re is no way to do it. Now on two or three occasions we have gotten a helicopte-r to go down after. As · a matter of fact, when I rece -ived the last letter, the helicopter was there that particular day, with doctors. With regard to peo~le in danger, and emergencies, this does not appLy, these are the : regular visits of doctors. When there is an emergency, the emergency is looked after.

I think we have one of the better emergency services in any part of Canada. You have) obviously, to depend on the weather. But when the.re is an emergency tha.t plane or helicopter is there. So, Mr. Speaker, this is very much in hand. I think- I have · wr.i.tten the member, or,a .t least, the community about i.t, and told them that we are endeavouring to do the best we can. The problem is we cannot have a helicopter sitting there all the time. If she cannot go today, then, as scheduled for the service, she is diverted somewhere else for the same kind of service,possibly, the next day.

So we are trying to put it in place so that we will be able to get the helicopters more readily. I think that is the basic problem. MR. SPEAKER(Simms): The bon. the member for St. Barbe. MR. BENNETT: Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to present a petition on behalf of some 1,400 people of 1 1 4 4 .. , ''I .,

March 3, 1981, Tape 54, Page 2 -- apb MR . BENNETT: the Bonne Bay area, related to the ferry service in that area. The prayer of the petition reads as follows: "Be itknowntha :t. we· the unders:i..gned residents of the Bonne · Area . do hereby and : he -rein pet ition the House of Assembly of : the· Province of Newfoundland and Labrador to consider our · humble request to require the Gove -rnment of New -foundland and Labrador, as represented by the hon. Minister of Transportat:i..on and Communications (Mr.

Brett), to take no action that would cause the discontinuance or reduction of the operation of the ferry whi .ch ope -rates across Bonne Bay from Woody Point to Norris Point. "And we do further petition the House to require that the said department continue providing ·a financial subsidy to help off­ set the operating costs · of · said ferry service". Mr. Speaker, . that petition is signed by some 1,400 residents or that area, a general area.

In support of. that: I rnc;)st certainLy wish to support it and I wonder if the Minister of Transportation realizes the significance and the importance of that life line across Bonne Bay. On the West side of Bonne Bay we have some 2,000 or 3,000 people who depend to quite a great degree on the services that are provided on the East side, or on the North side of the Bay, if you would.

They depend on going across on that ferry for many of the services, like the hospitals; the government services that are provided on one side and that are not provided on the other, like the Department of Social Services. 1 4 5 .. , ., ..,

March 3, 1981, Tape 54, Page 3 -- apb MR. BENNETT: Many of the people who work on the East side of Bonne Bay, live on the West side of the Bay. That ferry service has been in place, possibly for thirt y or forty years, and all of a sudden the Department of Transportation sees fit to withdraw from supporting such a worthy cause, and such a needed service .as we have in that area. The minister will say, as he has said in the past, I am sure, that they cannot provide a parallel service. The ferry se-rvice - AN HON. MEMBER: MR. BENNETT : that goes around the Bay. (Inaudible l Well, they have a road Mr.

Speaker, the road that goes around Bonne Bay is some fifty or sixty miles dis -tance. And in the next two, or three, or four, or five years, there is going to be some $40 millions . of­ federal dollars spent on that road around Bonne Bay. Already construction has started .. I travel.led over it a few days ago, and already i.t leaves a lot to be desired, Mr. Speaker, for transport around the Bay. Residents go across, a twenty minute run on the ferry.

The ferry is so badly needed with regard to services, for the various things like hospitals, but it is also needed for the transport of fish from one side of the Bay to the ­ other. We have a fish operation on the West side of 146 'I

1-1arch 3, 19 81 Tape No. 55 NM - 1 MR. BENNETT: the Bay and fish get hauled from the· North side of the Bay . The operators are telling me that if they have to haul fish around fr .om· on.e · side of the Bay to the other, by the time they get it ar .ound the ice is me -lted, that extra hour or two hours pull . over the Long Range Mountains and out to the Trout River where the fish plant is located, and in lots of cases they have to dump a lot of their fish.

The -re is no way that the people in that area are going to support, or even condone,the.minister's action of withdrawing a total subsidy to the detriment of that ferry. I am begging the minister to take a closer look at the service that ferry provides before he makes up his mind and is determied to cut the subsidy that keeps that ferry in motion. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER {Simms): The hon. member for Terra Nova. MR. LUSH: -- -- - Mr. Speaker, I stand to support the petition so ably presented by my friend and colleague on behalf of 1,400 people of the Bonne Bay area.

I can appreciate and sympathize with the concern of the residents in this area who, Mr . Speaker ·, have two basic concerns~ one,that there be no reduction in the service, and secondly, that the government subsidy be maintain7d. Concern, then, Mr. Speaker, that there be no reduction in the level of service and that there be a government subsidy to keep fares and rates reasonable to the people for whom the service was established. I mentioned, Mr. Speaker, I can appreciate the concern, and I can sympathize with the people concerned 1 4 7

March 3, 1981 Tap e No . 55 NM - 2 MR. LUSH: because I have a similar situation in my own district and I refer to the ferry service at St. Brendan's. The people of St. Brendan's, I might add, could certainly ma}~e a similar pet ·i tion. If they were to make a pe .ti tion I am sure it would be based on the same concerns as expressed by the 1,400 residents of the Bonne Bay area. Now, Mr. Speaker, I would certainly hope that these people who ha-ve to depend on these ferry services, these intra-provincial ferry services,.::an shortly look forward to an improvement - MR. STAGG: Intra? MR.

LUSH: Yes, the intra-provincial ferry services. r ·would certainly have hoped that the people in these areas - !·1R. STAGG: MR. LUSH: hope that the people - MR..._ STAGG: MR. LUSH: Does it mean (inaudible) or wha .t? No, that is inter. Arid I would Oh, inter. Mr. Speaker, would - I would hope that the government takes the matter more seriously than the hen. member for Stephenville (Mr. Stagg). This is a serious matter, Mr. Speaker, We are talking about the transportation, the only kind of transportation that these people have to and from the islands where they live. And, Mr .

Speaker, it is a matter no~ to be treated lightly. It is a serious matter and I would hope that the commission that the minister has set up, I would hope that after the commission come in with their recommendations, that the government will follow those recomrner.dations. We have had a long period, Mr. Speaker, of no action with respect to these ferry services, people, Mr. Speaker, subjected to the lowest form of service,if you will. It 148 '·I

March 3, 1981 Tape No. 55 OW - 3 MR. T. LUSH: is ridicul _ous that in this day in age, in the 1980's, tha_t some of the people have had to tolerate the con~tions on board these boats., that. they have tolerated •. And_ I would hope that wh·en this comxnission gets its report in,because I am certain that they are bound· to make manv recommendations, Mr. Speaker, recommendations that would improve the level of·services in all of these areas, and Iwould .... ope that the: minister w-ill move- quickly.

We have had a long period. of inac.tivity and nothing being done to improve these services,or nothing substantiaL Maybe the- minister can add:t:ess himself to this commissicn and tell us whe.n he expec.ts the report. Because it has been on the go, Mr. Speaker, for some time now and it has given the government, if you will, a 149 '1 ''1 .. '1

March 3, 1981 Tape 56 EC - 1 MR. LUSH: reason to do nothing while waiting ~or the report of that commission . I hope that study gets in and that the minister will act very quickly to improve the · level of services with respect to these intra-provincial ferry services throughout the Province . MR. SPEAKER (Simms ) : MR. WALSH: MR. SPEAKER: SOME HON . r.mr1BERS : Further petitions? Mr. Speaker. The hon. the member for Menihek. Hear, hear! MR . WALSH: Mr . Speaker, I have a petition on behalf of some 5,500 constituents in my dist~ict in respect to hydro distribution and hydro rates. The prayer of the petition, Mr.

Speaker: "We, the undersigned citizens of Labrador Wes .t, do hereby make known our disapproval to all parties involved in the proposed takeover of electrical distribution in Labrador West. Due to the severity of our Winte·rs compared . to the Island portion of the Province, uniform rates would cause great hardship and be an injustice to the people of Labrador West." Now, Mr. Speaker, at the present time, electrical distribution is done by both mining companie~ both in Labrador City and Wabush ,at some 300 per cent difference less in rates than Hydro does on the Island.

Over the past few months there has been indication that Hydro would be moving into the ·area to assume responsibility .of distribution of said services and raise the rates in line with those on the Island. Mr. Speaker, there has to be a final decision made on that. The final decision will be made eventually. I hope sometime down the road there will be a decision by the government on this matter, and I hope before doing so, we will give great consideration to this move and the effect it will have on the escalating high cost of living 150 ''I .,

March 3, 1981 MR. WALSH: Mr. Speaker. MR ,. SPEAKER: Oppos •i tion. MR. STIRLING: Tape 56 EC - 2 we already have in Labrador. I do sup~ort the petition, The hon. the Leader of the Mr. Speaker, I rise to support the petition, I suppose one of the largest petitions ever presented in this House· of As ·sembly, certainly since I have been in this House,a short time. Mr.

Speaker, the problem points out - the real problem that the people in Labrador West generally, or the Menihek district, the people in Labrador City and in Wabush 1 the problem that they have is not only a problem in Labrador but a problem throughout many parts of Newfoundland, but most sensitive in L~rador because the government is not showing any sensitivity to the situation under which Newfoundlanders went to that great frontierinot many years ago, but at a time when they had to live in construction camps, and at a time . when it was the hostile North 1 people went into this district and went into Churchill Falls.

Mr. Speaker, what the real problem here is is that the hydro cost in Labrador - passing right by these people - is being charged by I. 0. C. to the people in there on a basis that - I think the I. 0. c :· either is doing it on a cost basis or with a small profit. ·And they are using the hydro power developed from the Upper Churchill, as was their right and was agreed to. Now, Mr.

Speaker, in this particular instance, what the people of Labrador are saying is that this is a resource in Labrador 1 t'his is a resource which we can get at cost and we do not mind paying cost - and that is the cost of development in Labrador - and that we do not even mind paying a small profit. But it seems 1 51

March 3, 1981 Tape 56 EC - 3 MR. STIRLING: most unfair to the people in Labrador that even though they have . to bear all the extra cost of food, of transportation, the·extra cost of visiting the Island, all the costs .of being, although a well-developed community, an isolated community, we in Newfoundland promised them a road to be able to drive over and it has not been done. They have to put their cars on a train and drive to Quebec. So what they are saying is, ·in this case, 'We will pay the true cost. Let us pay the true cost of deve~oping this power in Labrador.' They are not looking for a gift.

They are not looking for anything from this part of the Province to subsidize it. But what they ·are saying is, 'Allow us to take advantage of the truecosts. Until you can balance all the costs in Labrador, do not give us the shaft by increasing us by 300 per cent.' And .we on this side certainly support the request that the people in Labrador West should be give~ the opportunity to have the -ir hydro developed at their cost and a small profit · for Hydro, but not to have such an extreme move made unless they are going to balance ever.ything with the cost of living on the Island part of Newfoundland. 1 52 "I .,

March 3, 1981 Tape No . 57 EL - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Simms): · Any further petitions? The hon. member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I want to support the petition. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please -! I believe -the rules for petitions allow for one member from each side, aside from the member presenting the petition,to speak. One member from each side, the rul~~ allow for so you have already had a member from the right, I am sorry. Any further petitions? The hon. member for Eagle River. MR. HISCOCK: Mr. Speaker, I rise to present · a petition on behalf of the residents of Pinware, Labrador, sixty-· five residents.

"We the residents of Pinware in the Straits of Labrador, from L'Anse au Clair to Red Bay call upon the Provinc·ia ·l and the Federal Governments to put aside their political diff-· erences and sit down and negotiate and sign the Coastal Labrador DREE Agreement. We the residents of Southern Labrador feel that we are being used as a political football between both govern- ments and we want an end to it. We have been waiting 9v!f three years for the signing of this agreement· and we cannot go .. n another Spring without having the road recon.:=:+:r.ucted and paved. Mr.

Speaker, that area of the Prov- ince has not only had to wait three years for the signing of this agreement,but has seen the road ·in that area of our Province continually deteriorate because each year the Department of Trans- · portation has always stated that the DREE agreement is coming and as a result we are not going to be spending any money on it. The Premier, for example, in the election of 1979 1 promised $200,000 •,;,- dollars forupgrading. As well, when a delegation came in here from the Straits area and asked the Minister of Transportation (Brett) 1 53 .. , ''t

;~ " >:-;· "'· -1' f.l ~~ March 3, 1981 Tape No. 57 EL - 2 MR. HISCOCK: he promised them the money when they were here; when they went back, then, this money was not avail- able 1 again because of the signing of the agreement. So, Mr. s·peake ·r, I do not know when th .e agreement is going to be signed but I will s-ay on behalf of the district, as well as myself and the res ,idents , that we are totally fed up by the lack of initiative. Whether it is the Federal, the Provincial, whichever person is responsible, we are all fed up with this matter and we want a qui~k end and remedy to this sit- uation.

We feel that last year, in particular since November, over seventeen washoutshave ~ken place in the Straits area.we hope that,through letters g.one to the Minister of Transportation (C. Brett) and to the Minister of Municipal Affairs (H. Newhook), they will come up with e-xtra money for maintenance of these roads and these roads in these small communities over and above normally what is given. So, Mr. Speaker, r: ask this House to give unanimous consP.nt to this petit ·ion and have a quick signing of the agreement so that we can have the . construction season start and get some work done on it.

We have had the problem in the Straits area of wanting to go and join Quebec, the Labrador Straits Chamber of Commerce, and this has been Cqused totally by the frustration that Quebec, the Province of Quebec, not the Federal Government but the Province of Quebec,is doing the road bordering the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

And the residents on the Labrador side of our Province are a little bit fed up seeing the progress that is made by the sister Province of Quebec and our own government, for whatever reason,not corning to terms with the Federal Govern- rnent and signing this agreement. 1 54 .. .., ··r '1

March 3, 1981 Tape No. 57 EL - 3 MR. HISCOCK: There are many other things besides the road in this agreement, sewerage, water and sewerage, a health clinic, as well as problems within the fisheries. So , Mr • Speaker, it. is ve·ry import-- ant that the -si.gning of this DREE agreement take place fairly soon, within this month. Thank you. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I support the praye -r of the petition presented by my hon. friend and colleague, the member for Eagle River(E. Hiscock) and I do so, Mr.

Speaker, knowing that 1 from the information that I managed to secure when I was in Ottawa a few weeks ago and held a number of meet ·ings in Ottawa with high-ranking officials of the Government of Canada 1 the provincial government is stalling on this DREE agreement for Labrador. They are stalling on it. And o:tgreement should have been S'igned, it s·hould have been signed before the end of February. It should have been signed before the end of · January, Mr. Speaker, but certainly before the end of February.

I agree with the remarks of my hon. colleague that there does not seem to be any explanation at all forthcoming from the Minister of Trans­ portation (C. Brett) or from the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs (Premier Peckford) or from any 1 55 •·,

March 3, 1981, Tape 58, Page l -- apb MR. NEARY: spokesman in the provincia ·l gove ·rnment. Ml:r. S:fle>a!ke~, I may p0int out to the House- tha ·t meeti.ng;s; b:e.iaw:ee:R' trfie of:Ei.ci.aJ.s of the pi!io.v±.m:::i.a!l g0veomren.>t al!ilfcilt. ~ ollifie~aill& of the :Eede:ra-1 government ., the Ge>v.~ o·£' Catratil!a, that were scheduled to take p:l.aee im esa;-ly February, that wez:e pos.tponed a nWI!ber o:E t.i:mes;; wi.ll now not take place for another two or th:rree · weeks·, and that is when the Minis.ter of TransEJe.rtatien~ (M.:z::·. Bilie:tt) MR. YOTJNG: ( rn:au~l:

e) it is too ' bad the officials would talk to you and · weuld not ta-lk to us, is it not? (Inaud:ible). MR •. NEI'AR-Y: MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : Mz:·.. SC:@ealk~ - O:rrde:r, :Q!l!ea·se! MR. NEARY: M!> •. S~ea!kei? ·, it is not . my fault. that the offid:.a-ls of the- Gewe.mmteE.t of. Canada. weuld not talk to the- min ·is .ter and ' hls• c·olleague-s. That is not my fault, MJ:::. Speaker. MR. SP.EAKER: Ord:&JZ, P.lease ·! I believe the hon. member is entering into debate. I would ask him to confine his comments to the prayer of the · petition and not enter into debate. The hon. the membe ·r for LaPoile. MR.

NEARY: I understand, Mr . Speake-r , but the point I am making is there. is likel.y to be another delay on signing the agreement that is referred to in the petition if the meetings between the provincial government officials and the officials of the Government of Canada do not take place for another two or three weeks. Mr. Speaker, the meetings have already been postponed on a number of occasions. 156 ''l

March 3, 1981, Tape 58, Page 2 -- apb MR. MARSHALL: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SEElAKER (Simms): A point of order. The hon. the P'resid'ent of the Counc:il. MR:: •. ~~ .:. Tlie he.ru. gemhlematn:' ±5' speaking: to a ma-tter of a petitio.B:. H"e, is > get:ui.n.<J int<:J a far-f~ung debate as . to h:is ' In'i.s -~en impressd:.ons of the course of events. MR. SPEAJmR: We~l , with respect t.o the point of order I believe I just asked the hon. member to confine his remarks to the pra.yer of the pe-tit ·ion· and not en ·ter into debate.

It i.s very di:ffi.cult to have to ca-ll a member to orde-r- every f·ew seconds ·· or· so. I' would a·sk him to confine his -remarks, then, to the pra:.yer of the petition. The hon. the meml:ler for La:Poile. MR. NHA:RY: Are you . s·ayin.g, Mr. Speaker, that I was not in order when I wa ·s. r.e -f'erring to the deila.y in the signing? I do not under :s.tand w-hat the p0int o-:f order is, Mr. Speaker. MR. SEEAKER: What I am saying is that the hon. member was entering into debate.

I have already warned him of that on one occasion at least, and I would ask him to confine his remar .ks to the prayer of ' the petition. The hon. the member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Yes•, Mr. Speaker. Well, Mr. Speaker, the people in Southe -rn Labrador, in Eagle River, want to know why the agreements are not signed here when in the other provinces they are already signed and in place, Mr. Speaker. SOME RON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. NEARY: And the delays that I referred to, the minister will not get a chance to present his wish list, ten or a dozen i.tems, until 1 57 ·-

March 3, 1981, Tape 58, Page 3 -- apb MR. NEARY: another two or three weeks. Does that mean the people in the Strait area will not get word on whether the:r:e is going to be wGrk done on the road from: L 'An-s:e a'U. C'la;ir to Red: Bay, they will not get w0 ·:~rd for i31li1!~!5:E!Ilr s:e.ve~l weeks:, or maybe · several months? Mr. S:J§> :e!aOOe:~r, I d0 not: th ·in:k it is good enough. I think it is ; shameful the way the people are being treated.

The inf 'orma ·tion that I have from the officials and from the e·lected. representatives of t·he Gove ·rnme ·nt of c·anada is tha •t the fault that this DREE agreement is· not signed is the fault of this province, Mr. S:~Peake.r. M'R. IJ!A.N€.0Cl< : !fe.ar, hea::r! N0t onLy that one. MR. NB'ARY: The Geve-IZnm:ent: of Canada have made . a very generous offer: o:f financ ·ing: n·inecy per cent · - ninety /ten. The;y wan ·t to make a ninety /ten deal. MR. SPEAKER(Simms): Ordez:, please! Again I believe the hon. member is entering into debate.

The prayer of the petition does not suggest that . i.t is one particular governments fault, as I understand it, it ma;y be any­ body's fault. But I would ask the han. member again not to enter into debate, and to confine his remarks to the prayer. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I do not know. I have been here nineteen years. I do not know any other way to get the facts out but to point them out. MR. MARSHALL: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. 158 .. , ''l ··,

March 3, 1981, Tape 58, Page 4 -- apb MR. SPEAKER(Simms): A point of order. The hon. the President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: Mr • Speaker , on a point of order. Your Honour, has made· a rul . .i.rLg· a:E:d. as.

I undeEs-tanci the remarks of the, hon:.. g;:ea>i=<l!emam·, tliie hon. gentleman is not only taking- e;x:c:eption wd.:.th. your ruling, but also cast·in.g re£lect.ion·s upon the· Chair of this House. i;uw Tour Honour made a ruling on this matter when the hon. genideman. was s.peaking to a petition, and the gist of that rulin.g was made three t.irne·s, ·that the hone. gen:tdeman was; entering into debate, and the re.ascon was g·iven: in Your Honour's last statement.

I th.:im-k that. the hen. gentleman has to comply with the rule·S> o·f· this Ifeuse, number one, but· number two, it is ahundanthy seE±ous., even more. serious, when the. hon .. gentLeman :flaun'ESf the ruling of the Chair. I thd:nk; the: hon. g-entleman should really - it is incumbent upon tha hon. gentleman to withdraw and retract any .imputation whatsoever to Your Honour because Your Honour is entitled,in this House,to the protection of all the membe:t:s. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER(Sirnrns): Tb the point of orde1::. The hon. the member for LaPoile. MR.

NEARY: If I may speak to the point· or order. Mr. Speaker, there was no inputation on my part. I fully accept Your Honour's ruling. I always have. I have been here nineteen years. I think I know a little more about the rules than the hon. gentleman. And we are not going to put up with these Mussolini 1 59 .. , ' 'I ''I •·j ..

March 3, 1981, Tape 58, Page 5 -- apb MR. NEARY: tactics that are be -ing invoked by the government and by these - MR. THOMS : This is not the ( ina ,udib le) government. MW •. ~(&ilnms,) :. MR. N~: Orde,z:·, I?<Lea~s:e!: - these d:::Let:a;be-E.iiaU: statements that are being made. Youx Ilen0w: k.news • full well that I accept Your Honour 1 s ruling .. I di.Gi not challenge Your Honour 1 s ruling, ana · I have · no intention of challenging it. If I did I kn<DW · what the procedure is ·, Your Honour. MR.

SPEA-KER : Well., with respe<;:.t · to the: point of orde.-r the hon. the membe:r for LaEo>ile: (Mr.Nea!ti.y.) has indic-ateGi tha .t he had no intention. of f·launting> the: rul.ing of the Chair. I aecep.t· tha-t. I al.se remind ' him now that his time -has exl'Jd.red. PRBMilR PECKFORD : Any :fu-rt:he'Ii" pet.:hti.onSI? T.he hon . the P'remd:.e:r: .. Mr. Sjpeaker, I would ~ like : to speak to the petition ably presented: by the hon. member on the opposite side of the House. As a membe,r­ of this House, and as a citizen of this Province, I full.y support the prayer of the pe-tition pres .ented.

As a member of this House, and as a c.i.tizen of · New.found·land who has travelled in that area extensive:ly over the , last ten years, I know that what · the people of that area of our Province is looking for is a very justi£ied, a very it is a road and it is a facility whichwas due to commence ten years ago, not two ago or not three years ago. And this government, Mr. Speaker, fully endorses the prayer of the petition and endorses the idea that 1 6 0

March 3, 1981 Tape 59 EC - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD• road construction in that part of our Province must begin immediately. Mr. Speaker, we have been trying for some time, to a;rrange a meeting. -- I ha.ve-, as; M&,ru±Sitre!I::" of Inter-governmental Affairs - with the. DRBFI mi:n·is•-t:er. It has fallen through every time. Yesterday morning· we called his office again to look, to see w0uld he please firm up a strange day, Friday, the 13th of March. He has not been able to get back to me. So far he has' cancelled on a number of occasions. The Throne Speech says, Mr.

Speaker, that we want to sign all DREE" agreements immediately. We are ready to si.gn· the Coastal . LabJOador one immediately - yesterday. I will go anywhere- at any time to si.gn that a.greemen t to get tha-t very needed roaa off the ground for the people of that p~t of our Provin€e. SOME HON . MEMBERS : Hear, hea.J:! MR. SPEAKER (Simms): MR. LUSH: Any further pe-titi.ons? Orders· of the day. Mr. Speaker. IviR. SPEAKER: Oh,I am sorry, Petitions? The hon.rnember for Terra Nova. MR. LUSH: Mr.

Speaker, in view of the lack of clarity and decisive action in the statement previously made by the Minister of Finance and the Pre:sident of Treasury Board (Dr. Collins) earlier in the afternoon, I ask leave unde-r Standing Order 23 to adjourn this House to deba.te a matter of urgent and public importance as follows:

Whereas labour relations in this Province, and particularly with employees in the public service, appear to be extremely volatile, as demonstrated by these facts: fact number one, two public service groups, namely, the support staff of the College of Trades and Technology and the Workers' Compensation group, have been on strike for - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! 1 6 1 •. , •. I

March 3, 1981 MR. SPEAKER (Simms): MR. MARSHALL: MR. SPEAKER: SOME HON. MEMBJiJ.RS:: MR. . SPEAKER: President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKE ·R: MR. MARSHALL: Tape 59 EC - 2 Order, please! Mr. Speaker, on a point of order. Order, please! On a point of order. Oh·, oh! . Order, please·! A po·int of order, the hon . the Mr. Speaker, when a - it is perfectly - Oh, oh.! Order, please! The hon. gentleman, Mr. Speaker, is obviously perfectly within his; rights.

There is allowed to be one motion under Order 23 every sitting, but I suggest that the procedure is not that the han. gentleman reads a lengthy reselution but that what the hon. gent ·lerrran has to do is to acqua·int Your Honour and this House·, generall.y speaking in a few brief words 1 as to what the na ·ture of the matter is that the hon. gentleman wishes to have the House adjourn to debate, and briefly and succinctly, the reasons why it is an urgent matter, and not for the purpose of going and reading a long, detailed resolution.

I think the precedents of the House, and I know the rules of the House ., Beauche·sne and that, are quite clear on that ooint. MR. LUSH: MR. SPEAKER: MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, to the point of order. To the point of order. Mr. Speaker, there is nothing in the Standing Orders which talks about the preciseness or the limitation on words. It states that the member desiring to make a motion risesin his place, asksleave to move the adjournment of the House for the purpose of discussing a matter of urgent public importance and states the matter. Mr.

Speaker, there are no restrictions there about the number of phrases, the number of words,about entering into 1 6 2 ''I .. ,

March 3, 19 81 Tape 59 EC - 3 MR. LUSH: lengthy discussion, and I submit, Mr. Speaker, that I was barely started and the hon. the House Leader (Mr. Marshall) had no idea how long t·he· statement w·as going to be or what it "'"" g 9oinq to state. MR. s;:e-~E ·R (Simms) : With respect to the ]Xlint of order, the StaHdmq Orders are clear and perhaps we could save a lot of time and . trouble if the hon. member would state what this matter is. MR. LUSH: abou .t to do. Mr. Speaker, that is what I was As I have said,

whereas labour relations in this Province, particularly with employees in the public service, appear to be extremely volatile, as demons -trated by these two facts: fact number one, two public service groups, namely, the support staff of the College of Trades and Technology, and the Workers' Compensation group, have been on strike for an exce:s ,s·ive period of time, re ·s.ud.t.in.g in great financial burden to the werkers and ineff ·iciency in the work pla :ee 1 ~oint number two, several public se:rvice groups for which contracts have expired and for which there are no immediate · settlements in sight, the teachers and nurses are two major groups in this unfortunate category.

In view of these facts, Mr. Speaker, and in view of the complete impasse arrived at · in these negotiations, and in view of the tremendous financial burden, frustration and anxiety being imposed upon those public service workers, and in view of the negative effect that these negotiations, or lack of negotiations, are placing upon the collective bargaining process , I ask that this House be adjourned to debate and seek a solution to these urgent and intense labour problems. 163 ..

March 3, 1981 SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. HARSHALL: on a point of orde~ Tape No. 60 EL - l Hear, hear! Mr. Speaker, I would like to rise HR. SPEAKER (Simms): Yes, if I may, I would accept some direetion from members of the House· because as you are aware it is the first time it has- arose since I have be·eB Spea.:k:e:ri at least. The h0n. Pres•i.dent of the Council . MR. MARSHALL: Yes, Mr.

Speake -r, the matter is very clearly set forth in Beauchesne; specifically, and this is in the Fifth Edition, specifically paragraph 286. un page 91 it starts and it is under the section, Motions To Adjourn The House Under Standing Order 26 of the House of Commons, which is comparable to this particular Standing Order which is the type of Standing Order that· - a similar one is in all jurisdictions, all legislatures.

On page 9 2, paragraph 2 8 6 '''i'he "specif·ic and imp0rtant ma·tter requiring urgent consideration", for the discussion of which the· adjournment of the House may be moved under S.O. 26, must be so press.ing that public interes-t w.ill s1:1:f:fer if it is not given immediate a.ttention." Then it goes on to say in paragraph 287, "Urgency" within this rule does not apply to t·he matter it­ self,"- the matter itself, Mr.

Speaker, may be urgent - "but means 'urgency of debate', when the ordinary opportunities provided by the rules of the House do not permit the subject to be brought on early enough and public interest demands that the discussion take place immediately." So, Mr. Speaker, it is well known that a matter raised such as this, while it may be urgent in itself, does not require the suspension of the rules of the House to debate that matter unless it is a matter of urgent debate. Now, I would - AN HON. MEMBER· Not urgent to the (inaudible). 1 6 4 . .., .. .. ,

March 3, 1981 MR. MARSHALL: MR. SPEAKER (SIMMS) : Tape No. 60 No. I would point out - Order, please! IB-2 MR. MARSHALL: Now the hon. gentleman can play his cheap little politics all he wants to but the fact of the mat.ter is, Mr. Speaker, that the ··re is on the Order Paper now the matter of the Address in Reply which is, as the Opposition is aware, going to be called after we get to the Orders of the Day and in the Address and Reply there is ample oppor- tunity to debate not only this particular matter but any matter that the hon. gentlemen wish to debate. So, Mr.

Speaker, these are - and I refer you to all of thes .e sections here 1 but this is the gene:ral gist of it. While we are not denying it · is a matter of concern, we say, as all labour matters are matters of concern, or labour disputes,what the government is saying in this particular case is that there is not the urgency of debat ·e.

This is not a matte:r of urgency of debate particularly when we have on the Order Paper the Address in Reply and there is ample and full opportunity for the hon. members opposite and other members of this House to refer to this as well as many other matters that are of interest to the public. MR. SPEAKER: The Chair will recess for just a couple of moments. 1 6 5

March 3, 1981 Tape No. 61 so - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Simms) Order, please! I have given serious consideration to the request for motion made by the hon. member for Terra Nova (Mr. T. Lush) • A:nd irr de ·ing· s·0me· research the pertinent sections referred to by the PresU.dent of the Council (Mr. W. Marshall) are cert·ainly ones to be cons-ide ,red, in addition, paragraph 285 which says, in P.art, "There must be no other reasonable opportunity for debate". And clearly in this situation there is because the Address in Reply is still on the Order Paper and is a w.ide- ranging debate as members know.

So I therefore rule the motion cannot be allowed. Although the matte·r is important, I do not feel, as Beauchesne says, "That the matter raised is or recent occurance nor s0 urgent that the proceedings of the House should be hal ted that it may be discussed. 1 Urgency 1 within this rule does not apply to the matter itself, but it means, 1 urgency of debate 1 , Nhen the ordinary oppor .tuni ties provided by the rules of the House do not permit the subject to be brought on early enough". And clearly in this situation there is further opportunity for debate. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. MR. SPEAKER: SOME HON.

MEMBERS: MR. L. STIRLING: ORDERS OF THE . DAY Orde ·r No. 1 Address in Reply The hon. Leader of the Opposition. Hear, hear. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I think we have seen the government get off to a good start today in the debate- p._ rousing start.. .l\ rousing start. MR. STIRLING: -a start that shows what they intend to do in this House, that they are going to use t~e President of the Council (Mr. Marshall) in every way that they can to jump 1 6 G ''l ..

Marc h 3, 1 981 T-'l.pe No. 61 SD - 2 MR. S'!IRLING: up and try to interrupt, try to muzzle the Opposition so that we cannot debate the important matters coming: before this Province:. ~ ~- ~; Oh, o:lir. MR-. S!I!I.RLIN@:: And, ~r. S"@e:a!k!e:rr, I, first of a:ll, must confess,.. they say confesS'ion is go0El: for tile- soul_ I must confes.s· that I be·lieved. When. I f·irst got elected:: to this House in June of 1979, and the Premier g:e.t up and said this is a new administration 'that we are having nothing to do with tha·t pa;st adlninis,tration, that the former Premi.er cm<f wh&te.ver that crowd was 1 6 7 •· .. ''1 ''1 ' 'I ' 'I

March 3, 1981 Tape 62 PK - 1 MR. STIRLING: was a dead loss 1 I must confess that I was looking forward to this fresh, great ,energetic ,new approach, a government that got elected on the abili .ty to negGtiate w.ith Ottawa and to stand up for New .foundlande:r:s. MR. Wl\:~REN : it. They do not know how. to do e·ither one of MR. STIRLING: But then, Mr. Speake ·r, today as we sat in this House, when we heard the Minister of Education (Ms.

Verge) get up and in front of the children who were he :re at this time, the Minister of Education in f·ron.t of: these people, who maybe had attended the House for the first time, said, 'Oh,no, Mr.. Speaker, those exoenditures: were not authorized by ~s, it was a previous administration, a previous ad.ministration; and allowed the students to go and think they must be taking about somebody else. AN HON. MBMBH:R:. Oh, oh! MR. S.TIRLING: Mr. Speake;r, the previous administration. So I just made some notes as to whom was in that bad ,old, previous adminis ·tration, this crowd tha .t really blew it. AN HON.

MEMBER: MR. STIRLING: No. The Premie ·r says, "They blew it." Everybody who came,"Bp",hefore Peckford, blew it. But who was in this bad old administration who did all of these things? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. STIRLING: Let us have a look and see who was in the previous administration. MR. WARREN: Let us listen now. Who was the Minister of Education? MR. STIRLING: The Premier. The Premier was in the previous administration. Surprise! Surprise! 168 '·I .. , ''I

March 3, 1981 Tape 62 PK - 2 MR. WARREN: Who was the Minister of Education? MR.

STIRLING: And this aggressive .Premier, this Premier who is going to fight ,nothinq is ever going to get passed him, this Premier has le .j us to believe tha ·t while the · comic books "''",..~ autno:Eizecil.. thact he sat in that Cabinet, and while the money was being spent on the public relations out in Gander, the PC Party, while that was happening this Premier just sat in the Cabinet .. where he was Executive Assistant to that bad old Premier Moores, while he was Executive Assistant did not notice a~ything happening 1 Hhile he was on the Treasury Board did not notice anything was happening, it was that bad, old,pxevious administ ·ration.

I wonder if there is anybody else lef~ around from that J?revious admd.nistra.tion - '~R . '~'ULK: Name every one of them. MR. ST-IRLING: -that rotten crowd that they jus .t referred to earlier? Not us, the previous administration. I wonder i:f there· is anyone left around? Is it poss ,ible that there is le:ft one person besides the Premie -r? MR. WARREN: The Minister of Fisheries. AN "TO>O. T:::!'3:::r:: ThP. r<>"+- h""'"' "'.11 gone. MR. STIRLING: 8h 1 the President of the Council~ The President of the Council was in that previous adminis .tration for a while ·.

Now he did not last because he resigned over the Public Tendering Act. That dirty f':i:<:!tlious administration, could not sit there. Now the present Pr.: ,nier could sit through it • M..R. 'i.'HOJI.I .S : r;e was still a rrember of thP- ;.r,..,,.,., ;,-nn nf the oart:v. MR. STIRLING: But the President of the Council could not stomach it,he had to get out, as did cne member for St. John's North (Mr. Carter). Now he did not get back into the Cabinet. So he was in that previous administration. What about the Minister of Justice (Mr. Ottenheimer)? My 1 G 9 'l ..

March 3, 1981 Tape 62 PK - 3 MR. STIRLING: goodness he is also that dirty previnus administration . ~R . TH OM S: You mean t:h<> '"'ne that (inaudible). MR. Sll'I.RLING: Not true! Now what abc;:mt the, now Minis ;te ·r o:f Deve-lopment (Mr. N. Windsor)? Execu.tive As-sis•t-ant. W 1as he a minister j_n that dirty previous administration? A:ll HON. ~.E ~~ BE !> : The Minister of Fisherie -s, MR. STIRLING: What Q;,out the Minister of Manpow~ (Mr . Dinn) that holiest of holiest man who did not -know that his department today was down to one mining inspector, did not know what was going on in this Province·?

At this time of the year, all over this Province, th~e are dangerous situations going on in the mines, with the thaws going oiT 1 they cannot get people out there, and he did not know that his department was down to one man. He did not know i.t. Guess what? He was in the previous · admin -istration. '"R. 'T'ULK: They were the ones. MR. S-TIRLING: My goodness not that bon. minist~ in the previous adminis .tration. MR. WARREN: How many is that now? MR. STIRLING: Now - MR. WARREN: That is three already. MR. STIRLING: - let us look at who else was in the previous administration. The Minister of Mines and Energy (Mr.

Barry) was in the previous administration. AN RON. MEMBER: MR.WAR:REN: Go awa y boy. The schoolbo y. MR . BAR RY : Yes, when they actually blew a couple of holes on each sides of the Straits of Belle Isle. He was actually in the previous administration. 170 ··, ··-

March 3, 1981 1-1.R • WARREN : was that? MR . STIRLING: MR . WARREN: Tape 62 Oh the schoolboy ! w"hat: minister What an awful thing to do . Who are you talking ab0ut? 1 71 "1 P::< - 4 '1 ''1 ''1

March 3, 19 81 Tape No. 63 GS-1 MR. STIRLING: Now, what about the fresh new Minister of Fisheries who was brought along by this Premier to solve all the problems of the fishery. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hea·r.·!. MR. STIRLING: When the Prern':iez: scutti.ea his former colleague- Walter Carter found ou.t how quick you can get a by-election called, when he go .t rid of him - then he brings in this fresh , new Minister of: F'isheries - MR. WARREN: MR. SPEAKER (Butt) : MR. STIRLING: (Inaudible) . Order., please! - and, oh my go0dnes's , Mr.

Speaker, do you. know he was actually in the previous adrnd.nistra ,tion, this dirty, bad, old previous adrnin'i.s .tration? But what a clean bill of health, this new adminis .tration. I w0nder if · we · ever heard of him before. Oh, yes, yes. First of all we heard of him - the first time we heaxd c of him, the firs:t time , we heaJ:d of him was when there was a unan ,im0us report ·. Four people from that side - the hon. mernbe ·r. for Stephenville (Mr. Stagg), a very conscientious, dedicated, honest man, first-class, great judgement, a man who us .es great judgement, he was one of them. MR. HANCOCK: about now?

MR. STIRLING: AN HON. MEMBER: MR. STIRLING: SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. STIRLING: Which member are you talking The member for Stephenville. Not that guy? Yes, the same one - Oh, oh! - who, Mr. Speaker, sat on the Public Accounts Committee and was so pleased to be a member of the Public Accounts Committee and they brought in their report. Was it a minority report? SOME HON . MEMBERS : No. 1 7 2 ..

March 3, 1981 Tape No. 63 GS-2 MR. STIRLING: No, Mr. Speaker, unanimous, four from that side, three from this side_, and with the great judgement, Mr. Speaker, the great judgement of the member for Stephenville (Mr. Sta.gg) , a·nd wha,t did they find, Mr. Speaker? MR. SPEAKER (Butt): A point of order - MR. STIRLING: What did they find, Mr. Speaker? MR. SPEAKER: - the hon. member for Stephenville. MR. STAGG: On a point of order, Mr.

Speaker, the Public Accounts Committee brought in a report and the report was not termed a unanimous report or a report that had a division within the Committee as votes within the Committee are not recorded, and the hon. member indicating that I approved of the findings of the report is completely misstating my position. Now, I can state my position as I stated it many times in the Cornmi.ttee, which I probably will do in the Speech from the Throne·, but the hon. member is again misleading the House, not deliberately because I do not think he is capable of that. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR.

SPEAKER: Order, please! To the point of order, there is obviously no point of order. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member from Stephenville properly clarified remarks attributed to him. Opposition. MR. STIRLING: Mr. Speaker. MR. TULK: MR. STIRLING: The hon. the Leader of the Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, How many have you got now? The member for Stephenville never, ever got over the fact that this new administration never put him back in the Chair. He wanted to 1 7 3 .. '"I

March 3, 1981 Tape No. 64 SD - 1 MR. L. STIRLING: go back in the Chair because he used to be the Deputy Speaker in the old. dirty, previous administration thaio they haNe been talkinq about. MR. TULK: We would not have him, boy. We w0uld not: hav~ him. MR. STIRLING: So now le.t us see >vhat we have le-ft of this - what have we got so far of this: previous admin-istration? We have, one, the Premier; two, the President of the Counc.·il (Mr. Marshall); three, the Minister of Justice (Mr. Ottenhe-im2.r), the Minister of Development (Mr. Windsor), the Mi.nist:er of Labour and l-1anpower (Mr.

Dinn) , the Minister of Mines a-nd Energy (Mr. B.arry) ,.... I do not want to leave anybody out - and the p:r:esei'rt Minis·ter of Fisherie·s (Mr. Morgan). That gentlema:n - MR. WARREN: The best-dressed man in Newfoundland - MR. STIRLING: - who came before the: Public Accounts Commi t·tee, Mr. Speaker - I read the Throne Speech., ana thi.s' fresh new administration under their dynamic, reborn leader, what a grea.t speech it would have been if it was: the first s.peech that he had made in this House. Because, Mr.

Speaker, the firs~ time he got to put his money where his mouth '•las in order to prove all of the great speeches that he made -~nd he had a unanimous report from the Public Accounts Com:r,li ttee,. and what did they say? They said that a minister had contravened the Act. AN HON. ME!·ffiER: Knowingly . MR.

STIRLING: And now these t~·o new people in this new administration - the Premier and the President of the Council - the leftovers from the bad,previous administration, they said it was a question of judgement and we agree with the Minister of Fisheries contravening the Public Tendering Act because it was just a question of judgement, just had a bit of bad judgement. He just had a bit of bad judgement, it is alright. The fishermen of this Province have made another judgement and he is out wandering around the fringes 1 7 4

March 3, 1981 MR. STIRLING: the fringes. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. STIRLING: AN HON. MEMBER: MR. STIRLING: Tape No. 64 SD - 2 trying to get in. Wandering 3.round Oh, oh! Ah, he cannot take it. Now, Mr. Speaker - (Inaudible) - no , I want to ge,t to the fresh new crowd but so far I am down - let me pu.t in a couple of the fresh new crowd - MR. TULK: Transportation (Mr. Brett). MR. STIRLING: . of fres 1:1 ne'" ones now. !1R. WARREN: MR. STIRLING: MR. TULK: where is he? MR. STIRLING: Do not forget the Minister of No, no, I have to put in a couple The Minister of Education (Ms.

Ve·rge) first. · We have - The· Ministe.r of Hea·l th (r.fr. House·) , the Minis.ter - oh, he is left, he could not stay around. No, he is gone. Another new one-- I must say that the Minister o::: !1unicipal Affairs (Mrs. Newhook), she is truly a member of a new administration, very hard working, very capable• MR. WARREN: SQ!.1E H01T. MEMBEF.S : !1R. STIRLING: department MR. TULK: MR. STIRLING: Good lady. Corne over! Corne over! Hear, hear. If she only had the supper~ of her Not a politician but she can come over. And tile!.' --.: do not know what happened., I am glad the Minister of Education (Ms.

Verge) is here - two women and three other unfortunates. Now let us go on to this group of the pure and the holy and the new, a fresh new man like the Minister of Social Services (Mr. Hickey) - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! 1 7 5 ..,

March 3, 1981 MR. STIRLING: in this House of Assembly. MR. W·ARREN: MR. &'l'IRLING: previous administration. MR. WARREN: MR. STIRLING: previous administration. MR. TULK: MR. STIRLING: Tape No. 6