LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Monday, 11 March, 1985. Time - 2:00 p.m. OPENI NG PRAYER by Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER, Hon. J. Walding: Presenting Petitions . . . Reading and Receiving Petitions . . . Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees . MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS AND TABLING OF REPORTS MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Culture. HON. E. KOSTVRA: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to announce the signing of another Manitoba Jobs Fund Development Agreement which will affect some 200 jobs for Manitobans. Since the last sitting of this House there have been two such agreements signed.

You will remember, Mr. Speaker, development agreements were introd uced in 1984 as an additional vehicle for co-operation between the publi c and private sectors to encou rage development or expansion of businesses in Manitoba. The first such agreement was with Toro Company of Minneapolis, Minnesota. It resulted in the establishment of a small manufacturing plant in Steinbach which will employ 27 people in its first year of operation. We then entered into a development agreement with the Manitoba Steel Manufacturer, Westeel.

As a result of this agreement, 10 0 new jobs will be created and, equally as important, it will help secure existing jobs. Westeel will consolidate into two local plants and establish a $1. 5 million roof fabricating line here. As well, the Agricultural Products Division of the parent company, Jannock Ltd., will be relocated to Winipeg. And tod ay, Mr. Speaker, we have entered into an agreement with a Manitoba -owned company, Gravure Graphics Ltd. Gravure was founded in Winnipeg in 19 73 as a major printer of packaged goods materials with clients across North America.

In 19 81, it purchased a Minneapolis company to serve its American customers. This company was recently advised by consultants to move its operations to Ontario to be closer to its Canadian customers. This would have meant the loss of 67 jobs in its Winnipeg plant. However, Mr. Speaker, as a result of a $500,000 forgiveable loan and a $638,0 00 repayable loan, Gravure Graphics will not only be staying here, they will also be acquiring another company, thereby saving additional Manitoba jobs. The development agreement also provides for line of credit guar antees of 1.2 million.

The closure of Crown Flexpak had been annou nced by its parent company in November of last year. The operation was to be moved to British Columbia and 7 4 jobs would have been lost. Gravure has now acquired this business and will move its operations into the Flexpak plant in Fort Garry. In addition, the company plans to purchase a $2 million new state-of-the-art printing press from Italy. 24 The operation of this new press will naturally require new employees. Mr. Speaker, this agreement affects employment for mor e than 200 Mani tobans, as well as the accompanying financial benefits to the Manitoba economy.

Through working with this company and with two locals of the Canadian Paperworkers Union, the Jobs Fund has again demonstrated its ability to work co­ operatively towards lo ng-term dev elopment and employment in this province. Mr. Speaker, I hope soon to be able to bring to this House the announcement of the signing of a further development agreement in the future. Thank you. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Lakeside. MR. H. ENNS: Mr.

Speaker, was it only Friday that the Member for Wolseley stood up in this very Chamber and said tha t un like Cons ervative or Li beral Governments, this government doesn't have to buy jobs? Wasn't it just on Friday we heard that? Here we have half a million dollars of taxpayers' money, plus $638,000 in loans, over I million, Mr. Speaker, and the hypocrisy of members opposite - (Interjection) - well, I should be kind to the Member for Wolseley, but certainly whoever wrote the speech for her ought to have been put in touch with the Minister who just stood up and made this announcement, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker, of course we welcome new economic activity in this province and the jobs that it creates. But you know, Mr. Speaker, when you look at the millions of dollars that this government is throwing away on self-serving advertising, all the green and white signs tha t the y have littered the coun tryside with, the taxpayers of Manitoba would not have gone into their pockets for another half million dollars to get this company to locate in Manitoba. So, Mr.

Speaker, it's not do as we say, it's the particularly hypocritical way this government acts in these matters that calls for censure from this side of the House and they will receive censure whenever we find it. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Health. HON. l. DESJARDINS: Mr.

Speaker, I would like to table the following Annual Reports: The Annual Report of the Manitoba Health Services Commission for the year ended March 31st, 1984; The Annual Report of the Alcoholism Foundation of Manitoba for the year ended March 31st, 1984; and The Annual Report of the Manitoba Health Research Council for the year ended March 31st, 1984. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Min ister of Agriculture. HON. B. URUSKI: Mr. Speaker, I have a statement for the House.

Monday, 11 March, 1985 I'm pleased to have the opportunity this afternoon Mr. Speaker, to announce a major program which, I believe, will assist many farmers in Manitoba. As background to the program announcement, Sir, I'd like to review briefly the current farm financial situation. As mem bers are aware, th ere's been a lot of discussion recently about the magnitude of the farm financial problem. The banks tell us that there really is no problem. They say that only 2 percent to 5 percent of Manitoba farmers are in serious difficulty. Mr.

Wilson, a politician dear to the hearts of members opposite, goes one step further, Sir. The Federal Minister of Finance, in a recently published discussion paper, portrays farmers as the "fat cats" of Canadian society. He and his bureaucrats tell us that everything is rosy in the farm sector and they say: 1. Farmers are nine times as wealthy as average Canadians; 2. Farmers earn massive returns on their investments in agriculture; and 3. Farm failures, as reflected in bankruptcies, are far lower than in other busine sses. Mr.

Speaker, along with most farmers, I not only disagree with this assessment of the farm financial situation, but I'm offended by it. In my view, the figur es that have been quoted in newspapers and radio and television distort the picture completely. All of the evidence that I've seen points to the fact that we're facing a serious crisis in agriculture in this country and in North America. I'd invite members opposite to look at the facts and then decide whether they agree with their federal Conservative colleague. 1. Mr. Wilson's White Paper indicates that very few farmers are having serious problems.

After all, they're alleged to be nine times as wealthy as average Canadians. MR. H. ENNS: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order. MR. SPEAKER: Order please. The Honourable Member for Lakeside on a point of order. MR. H. ENNS: Can we anticipate something that this government intends to do or do we want to listen to what this government thinks some bureaucracy in Ottawa is compiling, Mr. Speaker? Mr.

Speaker, I only serve fair warning, if this is the kind of minis terial statements that we can expect from this government, then I serve notice to you, Sir, and to the Clerk that we will certainly take this opportunity to launch into full debates on ministerial statements; and we will look forward to it and we will have full debates on minis terial statements, commencing this afternoon. MR. SPEAKER: Order please. Order please. The Honourable Minister. HON. B. URUSKI: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I'm only sorry that the honourable members don't believe that the situation is as serious in agriculture as has been pointed out and as I wish to point out, Sir. Mr. Speaker, The Wilson Paper alleges that farmers are nine times as wealthy as average Canadians, yet 25 a recent study by the Federal Farm Credit Corporation flatly contradicts this conclusion. The survey shows that, in fact, 20 percent of Canada's farmers are in severe financial difficulty and in danger of losing their farms. In Manitoba, this translates into 3,600 commercial producers. 2.

The Discussion Paper shows that bankruptcies in agriculture are fairly low, but as we all know, Sir, these numbers represent only the tip of the iceberg. For example,

whereas 50 to 60 farmers in Manitoba declare bankruptcy each year, another 1, 000 to 1,500 farmers discontinue farming without declaring bankruptcy. 3. With respect to our own MACC, our Manitoba ·Agricultural Credit Corporation, members shold be aware that approximately 20 percent of clients are unable to meet their debt obligations and therefore are in arrears. These numbers are consistent with the findings of the FCC surv ey. 4. Finally, real farm incomes in Canada have been lower in 1983 and 1984 than in all but one year during the past two decades.

And the forecast for 19 85 is that real farm incomes will again be lower than they have been since the early 1960s. Now to members on this side of the House, Sir, these figures show very clearly that we're in the midst of a serious crisis in agriculture. It's time that financial institutions, the Federal Government, and members op posite also acknowledge the magnitude of the problem. As members recall, in January of this year, I proposed to convene a national financial action meeting consisting of representatives of the Federal Government, Provincial Governments, and financial institutions.

As a basis for action, I put forward a three-point program: 1. That interest rates on all outstanding credit be reduced to 8 percent. I pledged that MACC would reduce its rates provided that all other fina ncial institutions did likewise; 2. That future farm loans bear an interest rate no higher than three percentage points above inflation; 3. That the Federal Government reintroduce Bill C- 17 (Amendments to The Bankruptcy Act), a bill which would provide assistance to farmers who are incapable of meeting their debt obligations.

I called the meeting, Sir, and put forward the proposed pr ogram in the hope th at it would tr igger some meaningful action to assist farmers. Unfortuna tely, the Federal Government and most Provincial Governments refused to attend. They said tha t

an act ion meet ing and action itself was "premature". Mr. Speaker, my colleagues and I on this side of the House, cannot agree with that assessment. We believe that action is required and it's required immediately. Accord ingly , Sir, I'm plea sed to announce, that effective today the province will take action to reduce inter est rates on MACC's outst anding loans to 8 percent. SOME HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order please, order please. Order please. The Honourable Minister. HON. B. URUSKI: Mr. Speaker , it appears th at members opposite agree with President Ronald Reagan and his agricultural policies? Is that what they're saying?

Monday, 11 March, 1985 Sir, this announcement applies to debts paid or payable during the current fiscal year. The write down of MACC's interest rates covers all outstan ding loans issued un der the corpora tion's regular loan program, including those provided during the 19 70s, when they were in office, Sir, with five year renewable terms. Mr. Speaker, to implement this program the province will recalculate the debts owing MAGG based on an 8 percent rate.

The difference between clients' actual loan repayments during 19 84 and 19 85 and the recalculated repayments, based on an 8 percent rate, will be rebated to them. If clients are in arrears, their arrears for the current fiscal year will be adjusted downward. The total cost of the program is $8 million. Once the young farmer rebates for 19 85 and'85, however, are deducted the net cost to the province is approximately $6 million. The reduction of MACC's interest rates will provide assistance to up to 4,000 farmers in Manitoba. Most of th ose farmers, Sir, are younge r or beginning producers.

It will provide much-needed relief to certain clients who are in acute financial difficulty. And it will extend effective support to many younger producers, producers, Sir, who form the basis for the future development of agriculture in this province. Mr. Speaker, this action affirms once again, the commitment of this province to the farmers of Manitoba.

We have introduced over the past three-and-a-half years a num ber of major programs to increase and stabilize farm incomes and to assist producers in financial difficulty, and we will continue, Sir, to examine other measures to sustain and strengthen family farms in this province. Finally, Sir, I hope that this announcement will provide a clear message to Ottawa. It is time to bring an end to Canada's insane high interest rate policy.

This policy, whi ch is suppor ted by the Federal Cons ervative Go vernment and was sup por ted by the former Conservative administration in this province, has caused irreparable damage to the Canadian economy. It is res ponsi ble, in large measur e, for our high unemployment levels in Canada and for the serious financial difficulties being encountered by Canadian farmers and small businesses. So, Sir, I call on members opposite to change their position and to join members on this side of the House in demanding a major overhaul of Canada's monetary policy.

We need to develop national monetary priorities that are sensitive to the needs of Canadians, including homeowners, small busine ssmen and farmers. In particular, Mr. Speaker, we need immediate action at the national level to bring those rates down and keep those interest rates down in this country. Thank you very much. MR. SPEAKER: Order please, order please. I would refer all members to our Rule 19 .(4) which does say tha t a Minister may make an annou ncement or statement of government policy.

The rule goes on to say that comments shall be limited to the facts which is deemed necessar y to make known to the House and should not be designed to provoke debate at that time. I would ask any Minister wishing to make a statement to reread that rule and so order his comments as to make it a proper statement and not a debate. 26 The Honourable Member for Arthur. MR. J. DOWNEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for the opportunity to respond to the Minister's both political and small portion of fact statement.

First of all, let us say on this side of the House that my colleagues and I in our party, have been pressing this government and this Minister for many, not only months but years now, to deal with the crisis in agriculture and the financing in agriculture. Furthermore, Mr. Speaker, we have been asking the Premier of this Province to live up to his 1981 election promise where he said, and signed the bottom of it: "We can tap our resources of energy wisely with ManOil and Manitoba Hydro. We can develop programs to guarantee that no Manitobans lose their homes or farms due to high interest rates." Mr.

Speaker, we have been pushing the First Minister and the Minister of Agriculture to live up that guarantee, but what have we seen over the past two years under their administration? We have seen record numbers of bankruptcies - 62 for each of the last two years - with people dropping out of agriculture and just going away and not bothering to go bankrupt in an official way. We are pleased here today to see the Minister lower those interest rates to 8 percent; we are pleased to see that he has done that. Mr.

Speaker, he is using a program - and I think it's important to put on the record - that was introduced by a Manitoba Premier and a Cabinet when they introduced Manitoba Agricultur al Credit Corporation. It was the Honourable Duff Roblin and his Cabi net that brought forward the Credit Corporation to the farmers of this province. A Conservative Government, Mr. Speaker, a tool that now can be used - and we told them could be used - to help the farm community. Mr.

Speaker, the Minister makes reference to a report and I am somewhat as ton ished at a Mini ster of Agriculture and a First Minister who have been saying they want to work co-operatively with the Federal Government. Mr. Speaker, that report put forward by the bureaucracy of Ottawa is probably more condemned by this side of the House than it is by this Minister. We were extremely upset to see the bureaucracy take the kind of information they did and abuse it and try to paint a picture that was really not in the best interests of the farm community. Mr.

Speaker, we aren't happy with that kind of bureaucratic action nor are we very happy to have the Minister here, who should be going to Ottawa to meet with the Fina nce Min ister to di scuss wha t he is pr op osing to this Assem bly. And what kind of relationship is he trying to develop between the Federal minis try and the provincial ministry with this kind of - and I'll call it that Mr. Speaker - this kind of garbage being presented in this forum, in this time of severe farm finance crisis? It is not time, Mr. Speaker . SOME HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. J. DOWNEY: Mr.

Speaker, what I am referring to as garbage is the reference to the Wilson statement and if the Minister . . . MR. SPEAKER: Order please, order please.

Monday, 11 March, 1985 MR. J. DOWNEY: Mr. Speaker, I think ii is extremely important to stress that it is time for all politicians, regardless of politic al stri pe, to work together constructively to resolve the problems in the farm community, not to bring forward the kind ol criticism of the Federal Government when we need their support to solve the problem. Mr. Speaker, let us move on a little bit further in the comments the Minister has raised here.

You know, it's very interesting that he makes special reference to a meeting which he had called several weeks ago for all the banks and the Federal Government and all the provinces to come to. Well, he blew it and what he is doing here today is a political manoeuver and there's good support there for the people that are involved in MACC loans, but he's trying to regain a little bit of politic al credibil ity within the farm communit y. He virtually destro yed his and his government's credibility, not only within the farm community but within the whole of the Canadian scene. Mr.

Speaker, I think it is extremely important as well to point out that a Minister who would come in here today and make a lot about his 8 percent interest after having raised interest rates to 13 percent, and now saying he's down to 8 percent - really, what kind of a person would do that? I leave it to the public of Manitoba, Mr. Speaker, to judge on the very fact that he raised the interest rates to 13 percent and now, after pressure from the opposition and after pressure from the farm community, has finally moved in an area where he had the capacity to move and that was with his own programs. Mr.

Speaker, he makes reference to young farmer rebates. Young farmer rebates were a product of the former government in this province. We introduced the young farmer rebates to assist the family farms. He makes reference to lowering of costs to the farmers in general, Mr. Speaker. It was our government, Mr. Speaker, that put a hydro rate freeze on and it was their government that took that hydro rate freeze off, charging more to the users of hydro in Manitoba. Mr.

Speaker, I am dealing with fact and I hope that the Minister of Agricultur e, over the next few days, as we go through the Throne Speech Debate - which again, was filled mainly with federal initiatives in an area in which federal in it iati ves are needed for them to accomplish some of the things that they have pointed out - I would suggest that he change his attitude in dealing with the Federal Government and not criticize the Minister of Finance, but lay the criticism at the feet of the bureaucracy who put forward the kind of report that he put forward, Mr. Speaker. Yes, Mr.

Speaker, I will blame the bureaucracy and I will blame them whenever I get the opportunity to do so in this particular situa tion . However, Mr. Speaker, I look forward to members of the opposition, as I look forward to members of the government in the coming weeks and the reaction of the farm community to what the Minister has put toward in this announcement. Thank you. RETURNS TO ORDERS AND ADDRESSES FOR PAPERS MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Municipal Affairs. 27 HON. A. ANSTETT: Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker, I have some Orders for Returns and Addresses for Papers.

The first Return to Order of the House, No. 11 , on the motion of the Member for Niakwa; Return to Order of the House, No. 17 , on the motion of the Member for Minnedosa; Return to an Address for Papers, No. 2, on motion of the Member for Turtle Mountain; Return to an Order of the House, No. 3, 1984, on motion of the Member for Turtle Mountain; Return to Address for Papers, No. 4, 1984, on motion .of the Member for Rhineland; Return to Order of the House No. 1 on motion of the Member for Arthur last year, 1984; Return to Order of the House, No. 5, 1982, on motion of the Member for Virden. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Notices of Motion . . . Introduction of Bills ... INTRODUCTION OF GUESTS MR. SPEAKER: May I direct the attention of honourable members to the gallery. We have 60 students of Grade 9 standing from the Minnetonka School. They are under the direction of Mr. Koskie and Miss Cloete, and they are in the constituenc y of the Honourable Member for Niakwa. There are 30 students of Grade 9 standing from the Alexander Ross School under the direction of Mrs. Maclean. The school is in the constituency of the Honourable Member for Assiniboia. On behalf of all of the members, ! welcome you here this afternoon.

COMMONWEALTH DAY MR. SPEAKER: Also before Oral Questions, I have received a letter from the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association. The chairman of the association's executive committee has asked me to read the letter to the House on the occasion of Commonwealth Day, which is today. The letter reads: "On Commonwealth Day, which falls on 11 March, extend greetings to all my fellow Parliamentarians.

On this day we rededicate ourselves to the principles of international peace and order, liberty of the individual, faith in the inherent dignity and worth of human beings, eradication of all forms of racialism and racial prejudice, elimination of colonialism, achievement of a more equitable international society and international co­ operation conta ined in the Declarat ion of the Commonwealth principles adopted in 1971. "As members of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association (CPA), we hold these principles dear, and in our various meetings and conferences it has been our endeavour to re-emphasize them.

"The hall mark of the various Comm onwealth organizations has been co-operation and consultation. In the same spir it our Associa tion brings Parliamentarians together on one platform, where they exchange information and experience in a free and cordial atmosphere. In our parliamentary institutions

Monday, 11 March, 1985 :ind the ideals underlying them, we have much in �ommon because of the Commonwealth connection. .taluing the democratic processes, the CPA through semi nars and other means has been engaged in ::iroadening the understanding of, and promoting the respect for, parlia men tary institutions. The �ommonwealth link has lent a great stability to our 11.ssociation, and a sense of belonging to its Members. "The Commonwealth has evolved with the times. In the process of transformation the Commonwealth has shown great dynamism and resilience.

It has grown in membership as well as in the range of its activities. It has been a common meeting ground of the developed and the developing countries and a forum of excellent opportunties, where Parliamentarians meet freely and gain a better understan ding of each other and forge personal ties. "In times of crisis the Commonwealth has provided a healing touch. The common parliamentary culture, the same medium of speech and frequent meetings have fostered among mem bers a sense of kinship and emotional attachment.

"During the tenure of my office as Chairman of the Executiv e Commit tee of the Commo nwealth Parliamentary Association, I look forward to meeting a numb er of leaders, representatives of the Comm onwealth cou ntr ies and Mem bers of the Association and to exchange ideas as to how best we may further and strengthen the activities, understanding and common co-operation among the various Members of the Associat ion." It is signed by Dr. The Hon. Bal Ram Jakhar, Chairman of the Executive Committee. RETURNS TO ORDERS (cont'

d) MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Municipal Affairs. HON. A. ANSTETT: Yes, Mr. Speaker, the Clerk has brought to my attention that I may have inadvertently provided him with one more Order for Return than what I actually read into the record, and with leave I would like to reference Order for Return No. 4, on motion of the Member for Arthur, December 17, 19 82. The Clerk advises I tabled that but did not read it into the record . ORAL QUESTIONS Bilingualism in Manitoba MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Elmwood. MR. R. DOERN: Mr.

Speaker, I'd like to direct a question to the First Minister and ask him whether he has indicated to the Franco-Manitoban Society, in the past year or two, that he would introduce bilingual highway signs in the province? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable First Minister. HON. H. PAWLEY: No, Mr. Speaker. MIR. R. DOERN: Mr. Speaker, I'd also ask the First Minister whether he made any commitments to the SFM, 28 that his government would introduce separate parallel French school boards across the province? HON. H. PAWLEY: No, Mr. Speaker. MR. R. DOERN: Mr.

Speaker, I'd like to then ask the Minister of Education whether she has given any indication to any person or organization that she would be receptive to the establishment of French language school boards in Manitoba? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Education. HON. M. HEMPHILL: No, Mr. Speaker. Children's Aid Society MR. SPEAKE R: The Honour able Member for Rhineland. MR. A. BROWN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Community Services. Can the Minister tell this House why it has taken three years to reorganize the Children's Aid Societies in Winnipeg? MR.

SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Community Services. HON. M. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, it is our opinion that we have steered an even course between a precipitate transition and a too slow one. I think we're hitting it just about right. MR. A. BROWN: My question is to the same Minister. Can the Minister tell this House why she dismissed the previous Children's Aid Society of Winnipeg before she had another agency in place? HON. M. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, strictly speak ing, that was an action taken before I was the Minister of Community Services.

I understand that the action taken was the remedy available to us in the existing law when we had arrived at an impasse in terms of negotiating appropriate service to the children of Winnipeg. MR. A. BROWN: To the same Minister, can the Minister tell me approximately how many children, some of whom are approaching three years of age and have been shunted from temporary place to temporary place, how many of these children are now waiting placement in permanent foster homes? HON. M. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, I will take as notice the question if the member can be very specific as to what he's asking.

As I understand the question, it's the number of children under three years of age who are waiting for placement. What I'm not clear about is what the reasonable waiting time might be considered to be or does he want just the information as to how many children under three are currently not placed? MR. A. BROWN: The information that I would like to have, Mr. Speaker, is how many children are waiting placement at the present time? a c V s b r C A

Monday, 11 March, 1985 have a further question. The Nor thwest Winnipeg Agency will be responsible for more than 200 children, while it is reported that there are only 55 foster homes available. Where will the Minister expect to find these extra homes? HON. M. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, I welcome a chance to comment on the question of foster homes. It's been a policy of the government to prefer foster home placement where it is available, and over the period of the last few years there has been a subs tantial buildup in the supply of foster homes.

It's not surprising that as the six new agencies develop that there will be some imbalances between the need in one area and the supply available elsewhere. We are encouraging the agencie s to nego t ia te among themselves to meet the need and they have resources available to them to do that, but if there are any issues which need to be dealt with at a ministerial level, I'd certainly welcome an opportunity to look at it in greater deal. But it is a direction we've been moving in for some years; we've greatly increased the number of foster homes and anticipate a steady buildup in supply as the agencies develop.

MR. A. BROWN: My question to the same Minister is, since some of these children now have been waiting three years for placement, how long does the Minister expect it will be before the major number of children awaiting placement in foster homes are placed? HON. M. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, I think there's an inference that there has somehow been an increase in the waiting time or the numbers of children waiting. I don't think the facts will bear that out but I would prefer to wait to give a detailed answer until I have the actual figures. MR. A. BROWN: I have one further question.

Will the Min ister consider ask ing the assistance of the Anishi nabe Child and Family Services who have done an excellent job in finding placement for children of Native parentage? HON. M. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, had that question been asked several years ago I think it would have been right on track, but we've been working very actively with Anishinabe and agree th at th ey have been extremely active and effective in generating resou rces for children. We have been working with them; we are working with them and we intend to continue to work with them. Financial assistance to Manitoba farmers MR.

SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Ste. Rose. MR. A. ADAM: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the response made by the Member for Arthur to the Minister of Agriculture he left the impression . MR. SPEAKER: Quest ion. MR. A. ADAM: . . . that the statement today was because of pressure from the oppositon. My question 29 to the Minister of Agriculture is, could he advise the House how many requests he has received from Tory members opposite to provide financial assistance to farmers in Manitoba? MR. SPEAKER: The Honour able Minister of Agriculture. HON. B. URUSKI: Mr.

Speaker, I noted that members op posit e in Jan uary or Feb ruary called a press conference to ask that the Legislature be convened and we've been two days in question period and we . haven't had one question on agriculture problems in Manitoba, Sir. This is the second question period that we've had. Mr.

Speaker, the Honourable Member for Arth ur, the agricultural critic, was asked by some reporters after our announcement for a national financial action plan meeting, what their priorities or their proposals would be and is quoted as saying that he would have to discuss the matter with banks and farmers first, Sir. Thirdly, if ther e is conc ern about the fin anc ial sit uation in agriculture in this province, I would have hoped that more than one Conservative member would attend those meetings with farmers that we've held.

In fact, the only member who attended the meetings was the Member for Minnedosa and he attended the meeting in ... . MR. SPEAKER: Order please. The Honourable Minister. HON. B. URUSKI: Mr. Speaker, in the last three years there have been no alternatives presented by members opposite. All there has been is criticism of every program we have brought in. MR. A. ADAM: Mr. Speaker, I wasn't clear. I asked the Minister specifically how many requests he had received. He did not respond. I presume that means none. HON. B. URUSKI: Mr.

Speaker, in order that I don't offend any member, I will take the question as notice, to jus t check all the corre sponde nce that I have received. ORDERS OF THE DAY THRONE SPEECH DEBATE MR. SPEAKER: On the adjourned debate of the Hono urable Member for Wolsel ey, the Honourable Leader of the Opposition. MR. S. ASHTON: Why are you smiling, Gary? MR. G. FILMON: Because I've seen the polls, Steve. MR. SPEAKER: Order please, order please. MR. G. FILMON: Mr.

Speaker, I begin this debate in response to the Throne Speech with the traditional good wishes that should be extended at this time, firstly, Sir, to you as you resume your position in presiding over this Chamber and I know, Sir, that as in the past, you will continue to provide your sense of fairness, your

Monday, 11 March, 1985 �ven-handed approach and your decency and good iature as you oversee the affairs of our Chamber. I issure you, Sir, of our continued co-operation in your �ndeavours to keep decorum and order in this House.

At the same time, Sir, I'd like to begin my remarks JY congratulating and welcoming to the Chamber the 1ewest member, the Member for Fort Garry, who brings a wealth of experience in community affairs as an elected member of Winnipeg City Council, as a former staff member of the Attorney-General 's Department, someone who has participated in many ways in public affairs and we're looking forward to the many fine contributions which we know he will make to the affairs of the Legislature.

Sir, as well, I'd like to add my words of welcome to the Deputy Clerk who was suitably welcomed by my colleague, the Member for Lakeside, on Friday, but all of us here wish her well as she begins her new responsibilites in this Chamber. As well, I'd like to extend greetings and good wishes to the new Pages we have with us in the Chamber this Session. We all hope that they enjoy their experience and we look forward to workin g with them. I must compliment you, Sir, on the choice of the colour of the attire of the pages this year.

In fact, Sir, on Friday, some of my colleagues sugge sted that might be one thing from this administration that we might be able to keep for another Session. Mr. Speaker, I welcome the opportunity to address the Throne Speech, not so much because of its content, but because of the opportunity that it affords all of us here in the Legislature to participate in looking at the future plans that have been laid before us by this admin is tration . It's been such a lon g time si nce members on our side have had the opportunity to debate and discuss the serious and importan t issues that face us in Manitoba today.

I think all of us look forward to this opportun ity and the beginning that it represents. We've had, Mr. Spe aker, the most un usual circumstances over the past eight-and-a-half months of a government in hiding, a Premier in total retreat, an administration that has chosen to govern by Orders­ in-Council and advertising and news releases. Orders­ in-Council passed behind closed doors where no one has the opportun ity, Mr.

Speaker, to debate or discuss the merits of the decisi ons being made; hund reds of news releases churned out by a politically-motivated and appointed communications staff that grows in burgeons, month by month, under this admi nistration. This staff that was, I think, aptly referred to by the Presid ent of the Manitoba Governmen t Employees Association as "apple polishers" have actually been the governm ent of this province for the last eight-and­ a-half months, Mr. Speaker, and there are many of them in direct Civil Service jobs, in term and contract assignments.

As a matter of fact, the December 22nd issue of the Winnipeg Free Press, Mr. Speaker, gave a summa ry of some of the things that have been hap pening in this area of communications, public relations, and all of the media people that have been appointed and hired by this administration, totally for the purpose of image-buildin g and raising the political profile of this administration.

I quote from some of the things that were said in that article, but in summ ary, the cost to the taxpayer of these commitments alone - there's a sum mary of 30 124 additional staff at an average of $30,000, $3. 7 million more committed by this admi nistration to political support staff and image-building people. That, added to this year's allocation in the Budget of $4.7 million for direct paid advertising by this admi nistration, $8.4 million a year being callously and irresponsibly spent up on the image build ing of this Government, Mr. Speaker. It says in the

article about this and the title is "N.D .P. To Create Central Bureau for Information. The provincial government has done an about face to create a Central Information Bureau. At the same time, figur es show government media and analysis jobs have risen 80 percent under the NOP." - (Interjection) - Well, Mr. Speaker, I understand the Minister of Finance is joking about having researchers and joking, as they have in the past, about having researchers and writers for the Leader of the Opposition. I understand, Mr. Speaker, that according to another recent newspaper article, that the Premier has a new speech writer.

Apparently, this speech writer is very effective and is doing wonders for the Premier. I understand that first of all they hired this sp eech writer from Betty Crocker, because the first qualification was that he had to be able to write on recipe cards in big print, Mr. Speaker. That's what this government is doing. - (Interjection) - That's all right. There's more to come, Howard, more to come. Mr. Speaker, we'll laugh about the waste of money; we'll laugh about the Central Information Bureau that's run by the Minister of Indust ry, Trade and Technology.

We'll laugh about it when we tell the people of this province where the priorities of this administration are, how they'll spend $8.4 million polishing their own image and they won't pay for things in health care and community services and other things that are being needed today. We'll talk more about that Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, after talking about all of the additional staff increases, a 97 percent increase to 203 for program and policy analysis by this government. Mr.

Speaker, there are 279 people being employed in the area of policy analysis, image building, and advertising and public relations; 279 people now, up from 155 in 1981 under the former administration. Mr.

Speaker, the response to this move, when question ed the Premier sa id, and I qu ote, "Pawley defended the communications staff saying that the government has always felt it was important that the public knows about its policies." They've hired these hundreds of people more with the sole task and the respon sibility to prop up their saggin g image to persuade Manitobans what they know that they can't be persuaded of Mr.

Speaker, but somehow this incompetent government, which has torn apart the social fabric of this province, which has spent most of its efforts and much of its money off the public agenda on some ideological tangent, they're still hiring people and still spending all this money to try to convince us that this administration - and I can't make myself call the m a go vernm ent - but this administration has done a good job. Well, Manitobans know better. Despite that expenditure of $8.4 million, despite the abuse and misuse of taxpayers' money, it's not working and it won't work.

We need only look at the record of the last eight-and-a-half months. During the last federal election here in Manitoba in September, overall the New Democratic Party received only 20 percent of the popular support in Manitoba, e n a e b n a e

Monday, 11 March, 1985 Mr. Speaker, 27 percent. In the more recent by-election in Fort Garry that I referred to a moment ago, the New Democratic candida te who I believe was their party president considered to be a top-not ch candidate, that New Democratic candidate, Mr. Speaker, took their vote in the Fort Garry constitu ency from a level of 3, 700 votes, a strong second-place finish in 1981, all the way down to 1,200 votes, within 200 votes of finishing fourth in that election. That 's performan ce, now that's performance. Mr.

Speaker, that's not a commentary on the qualit y of the candidate that they were running. In fact, that's a commentary on the most tired, discredited provincial administration in this count ry. So, Mr. Speaker, I guess that it's no wonder that they've been in hiding in complete and shameless retreat, because no matter where they go in this province, they've been rejected and the last thing they wanted to do was face the opposition in the Provincial Legislature. You know, that's a curious posit ion for a New Democratic administration to take.

These defenders of democracy who, in their first couple of years in governmen t, were suggesting that the Legislature should be sittin g longer Sessions during the year, spring and fall; that M.L .A.'s should be given more opportunit y, they said, to be able to debate and discuss the issues in public forum, that's what they said. I remember some of the people who said that: the Member for lnkster, the Member for Springfield, the Member for Thompson. They were all talking about the need for longer Sessions, more opportunit y for open public debate. Mr.

Speaker, of course, that was before they dis covered that their approval rating rose substantially when they were not in Session. This administration has delight ed in talking about the fact that their approval rating has gone up to over 50 percent in the last eight -and-a-half months sin ce they haven' t been in Session. As a matter of fact, each time that a Decima Quarterly Report comes out that gives that mythical approval rating, a mole from the Premier's office takes a xerox copy of it, puts it in a manila envelope and puts it in the news media mailboxes - every one of them.

They get a copy of it the day after it's out from somebody in the Premier's Office because he's proud of the fact that his approval rating has risen to over 50 percent si nce they've been out of Session, Mr. Speaker. Well I've got news for him. I can tell him that prior to the last provincial election in Saskatchewan, Allan Blakeney had one of the highest approval ratings in the entire country. That was the quart er immediately prior to that last Saskatchewan election and ali of us remember what happened in that election campaign. Mr. Speaker, let's address some of the meat of the Throne Speech.

Let's go directly to what the Throne Speech promises and offers us and let's begin with some of the information that we have in the

section entitled "Building an Economic Future," and I'll qu ote from the first section. And it says, "The Manitoba economy recorded its second year of post-recession expansion in 19 84. Virtually all major sectors of the economy showed improvement." That's what the PR writers in the Throne Speech said. Mr. Speaker, let's take a look at what the Conference Board, who I believe are more objective analysts of what is happening in Manitoba and what growth we have experienced and are expected to experience in 31 our economy at the present time.

Here is what the Conferen ce Board said: "Last year Manit oba's economic growth rate ranked fifth among the provinces and below the national average. In employment growth this province was tied for fourth, just at the national average. The board's projections for this year show that Manitoba's economic perform ance is laggin g behind the national average in most key areas." How does that square with the statement that virtually all major sectors of the economy showed improvement? How does that say that we recorded our second year of post-recession expansion in 1984? As a matter of fact it doesn't, Mr.

Speaker, it doesn't. The Throne Speech says fu rth er, "Particularly encouraging has been the turnaround in investment prospects in Manitoba. Increased investment was evident in all major industries in the province. An especially strong growth in the manufacturing sector marked a welcome renewal." Well, Mr. Speaker, let's take a look at how this economy and that turnaround in the manufacturing sector compares with what things were like in 1981 when they were running for government and they said that the economy wasn't good enough, that we could do much better and that they would do much better.

Let's take a look at the capital expenditures in Manitoba, 1984 versus 19 81. Firstly, primary industries: 1984, three years later we still have an investment, a capital investment in primary industries of almost 6 percent less than the investment in 19 81. Manufacturing: that area that they say has had such a major turnaround, so much stronger than it used to be in Manitoba. Let's compare it to 1981 when they said it wasn't good enough and it wasn't strong enough. Mr.

Speaker, capital investment in manufacturing in Manitoba in 1984 was still 29.7 percent less than it was in 19 81, three years earlier when they said it wasn't good enough and, Mr. Speaker, the Throne Speech says that there's increased invest ment, and manufacturing has been one of the strongest growth areas in our economy. If 29.7 percent less than 198 1 is strong growth, Mr. Speaker, we're in big trouble and that's what Manitobans know. Mr. Speaker, in trade, finance and communications, investment in 1984 is still 8 percent less than it was three years earlier, in 19 81.

That's the kind of growth we've been having under NOP administration in terms of private capital investment in our economy. In ut ilites, we're still 3.5 percent less than we were in 1981. That's the kind of private capital investment we've been having under this NOP administration. That's why the people of Manitoba do not have confi denc e in this admini strat ion and that's why they know that what they say and what they do are two entirely different Mr.

Speaker, there are a few more comments flow out of the Conference Board's assessment of the Manitoba economy that should be put on the record because they won't be put on the record by people on that side because they're hiding from it and they're ashamed to address it because they know that it is a commentary on their abject failure in the economic affairs of this province. This is right from the Conference Board's report, not from the Throne Speech wri tten by the PR writers of this administration. Many of the pr ovin ce's largest ma nufacturin g industries, food process ing, clothing and agricultural

Monday, 11 March, 1985 machinery, for instance, have not participated in the general manufacturing resurgence. The problems facing these industries will persist in 19 85. Even with the low growth that we've experienced in the first three years, we can't expect any better in 19 85 as a resu lt of the Conference Board projection, Mr. Speaker. As a matter of fact the Conference Board says in summa ry that Manitoba will have a growth rate of 1. 6 percent, the lowest of any province in the entire count ry. That is a commentary on the NOP Government administration in this province, not what we see in the Throne Speech.

And yet, what's most frightening about this is that with this unbelievable distortion of reality, I believe that the members on that side are actually believing their own material that's being written for them by their own paid adv ertisin g and med ia specialists. They're in fantasy land. Mr.

Speaker, the Premier, we've seen him stand up in speeches and in question period in the House and throughout the province lately, mouthin g those two words that have become his slogan, "confidence" and "optimis m." I think it's because his public relations people and his speech writers have told him that, as Premier, that's what he must say. And he goes around saying that we have confidence and optimism in the future of Manitoba despite the warning sign s, despit e the dark clouds that are evident from every objective analysis of our economy. He's blissfully ignorant of all of it, Mr. Speaker.

He ignores the Conference Board projections. He ignores the fact that dur ing the past year the unemployment rate, which he used to be able to say was the lowest in the country, has now slipped to the second lowest and we're heading very rapidly towards third and maybe even beyond that, despite the fact that in January of this year, there were still 20,000 mor e people un emp loyed than when his administration took office in Manitoba, despite the litany of all of the jobs that have been lost by busi nesses goin g out of existence during the three years of this government's term of office so far.

Early on we had Sekine go out of busin ess under their administration, Mr. Speaker. Kimberly-Clark went out of business; Shell Oil closed their refinery. Dominion Stores closed stores throughout this city and this province. Sterling Shoes, the largest independent shoe retailer in the west, closed down here in Manitoba, Mr. Speaker. GWG, a large clothing manufacturer went out of busin ess.

Superior Bus Manufacturing - and there's an interesting one because Sup erior Bus is now operating in the United States, and they are projecting that within a short period of time they're goin g to have over 500 people employed - went out of busin ess in this province and were driven out of this province because of the labour legislation that was passed last year by this administration. Mr.

Speaker, we told them and many, many people who came before the committee that was reviewing that labour legislation told them that that provision they put into the act that said that if anybody came in to take the assets of a failed operation, an operation of any sort that was in receivership and somebody wanted to restore it, put it back on its feet and get it operatin g again, they had to be saddled with whatever agreement was in place in a collective bargaining sense at that operation, even if it was under a different name, even if they were putting the assets in a different location, 32 even if it was a different corporation entirely, they had to inherit the collective agreement.

And if that meant that they couldn't live with the collective agreement, if that meant that because of the collective agreement they weren't viable, so be it, they were gone and they couldn't locate here in Manitoba and Superior is the first of many who will locate elsewhere beyond this province's borders because of the inappropr iate labour legislation that was brought in last year. Co-op Implements is talking about the same thing, · Mr.

Speaker, and I venture to say that as the Minister of Industry Trade and Technology is looking for buyers for Flyer Industries, which we know he is, the biggest stumblin g block - in addition to the payroll tax, in addition to the Workers Compensation rates, and the anti-business attitude of this government - is that labour legislation in that particular clause. Mr. Speaker, it goes on. The litany of failed businesses in the three years of this NOP administration goes on and on.

Spiroll Kipp Kel ly, Bell Found ry, Ci tadel Insur ance moved their head office out of here, Canadian Steel Tanks, Phillips Cables, Rayovac, and others. Mr. Speaker, there were thousands of jobs involved in those closures that I just related to you, and there were many thousands more layoffs that have occurred sin ce this government has been in the Province of Manitoba. Mr. Speaker, it is because of their policies and very centrally involved in their policies that we are facing these problems. Yet, Mr. Speaker, the Premier goes throughout the province and stands up and says we have confidence and optimism.

Well, Mr. Speak er, my coll eagues and I have confidence and optimism because we know that we can build a better future for Manitoba that includes economic development and real long term job creation for our people because we're prepared to take the necessary steps to make it happen. We will rid Manitoba of the job destructive payroll tax; we will remove those sections of labour legislation that are anti-busin ess, anti-investment, and destroy the opportunity for long­ term jobs to come to Manitoba. Mr.

Speaker, we will once more make Manitoba a competit ive environment in which busin esses can grow and expand, becaus e we'r e not wedded to the discredited old ideology that these people opposite are. We will get out of competition with the private sector in the oil and gas field. All they've done - it will be pretty stra ightforward and easy - is more than a year ago they hired a president at over $80,000 to run the corporation. Another one of their political payoffs, Mr. Speaker.

They set up an office, they've added staff, they expended money, and they haven't done a thing to add to the viabilit y of the oil and gas industry or to make any returns whatsoever to the people of Manitoba, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we'll go further than that. We will not enter the life insura nce and pension management field here in Manitoba. We'll remove the threat of government interference from over the heads of the people, who can and will create the long term jobs in Manitoba, the private sector. You see, Mr.

Speaker, the Premier can only mouth the words that are written for him about confidence and optimism, because he's unwilling and unable to do the things that will cause positive change right here in Manitoba. He's a prisoner of his old ideology; he's

11 March, 1985 a captain of the union bosses who call the shots for his party. They are the ones who won't let him take the actions that are necessary to accomplish those goals of confidence and optimism. Mr. Speaker, the Throne Speech refers many times to the government's activities and efforts during the past year. As a matter of fact, it's a central focus of their whole session this Session, the development of the Lime stone generating station. In fact, if you listen to the government in its pronouncements, you'd believe that the answer to all of Manitoba's ills is Limestone.

Ask a question about what the government's goin g to do with the economy; the answer is Lim estone. Ask them what they are goin g to do to create new jobs; the answer is Lime stone. Ask them what they're goin g to do in Northern Affairs; the answer is Li mestone. Mr. Speaker , I've got a new one. On Friday, when the Member for Wolseley was speaking about the Throne Speech and she said that the answer to the problems in community services and day-care in this province was Limestone. Mr.

Speaker, she said that they were going to take the profits from Limeston e and be able to reinvest them in community services and day-care. Mr. Speaker, how sad the public will be when they find out that they've been duped and that the Limestone project cannot and will not solve all the problems that Manitoba faces tod ay. In fact, if the government is allowed to proceed in the way in which they have said they will, they will actually create more problems for the people of Manitoba, because if they build the pro ject two years ahead of when it's needed for the markets that they have for the energy, Mr.

Speaker, the ratepayers will be committed to ever rapidly risin g hydro rates for decades after the five years of construction jobs end. Mr. Speaker, there will be plenty of opportun ity to debate and discuss the various concerns that we have about the government 's method of proceeding on this project. You know, the Premier said a month or so ago that he's been lying awake at night wonderin g what my position was on Hydro development and Lime stone. Well, Mr. Speaker, it's clearly on the record.

If the Premier would like to take a look at two presentations which I made to the National Energy Board when they were here for 11 days of hearings in Winnipeg in November, and I might say that during those 11 days of hearings, there were members from this opposition caucus in attendance during the entire 11 days and not once did I see a member of the government attending those hearings.

Not once did I see them there to listen to the legitimate concerns that were being put forward by people who are experts in the field; engineers, financial people, people who understand Hydro development, Native people who were concerned about the jobs and the gua rantees that they could get from this administration who they no longer trust, Mr. Speaker. All of those people were there making good presenta tions and legitimate information and not one member of the governmen t was there to listen to them. Mr.

Speaker, that's why the Premier is lying awake at nights because he doesn't bother to attend these important hearings about Manitoba's future and about his plans for Hydro development. He doesn 't bother to read the presentations that were made by me on behalf of this opposition caucus to the National Energy 33 Board on that topic. I say to him, Mr. Speaker, he doesn't have to lie awake at night any longer. All he has to do is read the information that's there before him, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker, Limestone can be one of Manitoba's most valuable future assets, but only if it's developed for markets that we have in place. I remind him and his colle agues tha t we were prepared to devel op Limestone because we had markets. We had markets for the use of the energy for Alcan, 400 megawatts; we had markets for the Western Electric Grid, Mr. Speaker, 10 00 megawatts for the Grid; we had markets for the energy. These people, Sir, are going to start it two years ahead of when we have any markets for it.

When the Member for Wolseley talks about the fact that there's goin g to be all of these profits from Hydro and talks about the fact that at the same time they're going to protect Manitobans against rising Hydro costs, I remind here that in the Public Utilities Committee meetings of this past spring, the Hydro officials told us that between the years 19 83 and 1993 Hydro rates in this province will double and that's without the effects of Limestone being added in, Mr.

Speaker, because then you get the rate chop of all of the extra interest costs on a $3 billion investmen t that then makes the dramatic rises take place. That, Mr. Speaker, is the problem that they're goin g to have to contend with. They not only can't keep the rates from going up rapidly, Mr. Speaker, but they won't have any money to siphon off for other programs and projects of theirs, because there won't be any that goes to child care, there won't be any that goes to community services or anything else. Our position is very clear and very straightforward, as it has been for more than a decade.

You develop your hydro-electric resources in this province when you have a market for the energy that they'll produce. That is not the case today in the proposal that's before us. We're embarkin g on this project for a scheduled completion two years ahead of when we need the energy for the Northern States Power Agreement. Mr. Speaker, every year we advance Limestone before it's required for our energy commitments, it costs the taxpayer and the ratepayer $300 million minimum at 10 percent interest rates and that's an optimistic figure.

This administration, through its incompetence and its mismanagement, will destroy the worth of our most valuable future resource, our hydro-electric energy. Mr. Speaker, what frightens me is that the Premier doesn't understand it. He was on the CJOB Action Line last week and he made the statement, in referring to the Northern States Power sale, that the terms of the sale ensures a subs tantial return to Manitoba Hydro. I don't think his Energy Minister told him that the price is based on an American price, based on wha! the Americans can produce an equ ivalent degree of energy for.

There is no assurance that if interest rates escalated wildly we would get the return on the investment that he thinks that we'll get. There's no assurance that if there was a major change in our exchange rate on our currency that we would get the returns that he thinks we'd get. There's no assurance, Mr. Speaker, that if it costs us more to construct Limestone than they project it will that we will get a return on that sale. We bear all the risk and he didn't tell the people of Manitoba that, and he continues to hide from that fact.

Monday, 11 March, 1985 Mr. Speaker, what disturbs me even more is that these distortions and this misin formation go right into the Throne Speech, because it says the Northern States Power sale will bring $3.2 billion in revenue. That's what the agreement says. I don't disagree with that fact, but it says that it will bring $1.7 billion in profits to Manitoba in future years . They cannot guarantee that; that is a statement that they can't ensure. That's an untruthful statement, because they cannot ensure that it will bring $1. 7 billion.

That's a projection based on any number of variables that may or may not come true. Yet they use the vehicle of a Throne Speech, Sir, to try and convey an untruth to the people of Manitoba. It's a shameful situation. When he was on the CJOB Action Line, the Premier said that 45 percent of the capacity of Limestone is committed to the Northern States Power sale. Yet in the calculations that are used to arrive at these figures, they only take into account about 10 percent of the capital cost of Limestone.

They only put in just over $300 million of the $3 billion investmen t in order to try and make the figur es show some sort of profit. It's a fabrication of the imagination of the Minister of Energy and many others around him, Mr. Speaker. We believe in hydro development for Manitoba to pr ovide the lon g-term jobs by attract in g energy intensive industry to this province. That's what we need our hydro energy to be developed for. The NOP see it only as a means of achieving short-term construct ion jobs - five years, Mr.

Speaker, and after five years, if it's mismanaged the way it is, the jobs are gone and in fact any returns to the people of Manitoba are pure fabrication because all they'll be looking at is increased Hydro bills. This is a pure political decision made by a desperate governmen t willing to squander our most valuable resource in order to fund their re-election. Mr. Speaker, the sect ion of the Throne Speech that deals with labour management co-operation I find as toun din g, because it states th at co-operat ion, harmony and equity in the workplace are essent ial to economic gr owth and social jus tice.

Yet this administration, in the last two years, chose to bring in one-sided amendments to the labour legislation of this provin ce and first constract labour legislation that has some very negative provisions, not contained in similar legislation anywhere else in this country; and it was done unilaterally against the wishes of the busin ess community, management representatives and for the first time in a decade they ignored the vehicle of representat ion at the Labour Management Review Committee.

That's a committee, Sir, that is made up of people who represent both ma nagement and labour and normally, for more than three administrations, they have always been asked to pass judgmen t and to arrive at consensus on proposed changes to labour legislation to ensure that they wouldn't have the effect that this legislation has had. That effect, Sir, is to make this legislation a disi ncentive for people to come into this provin ce or to stay in this provin ce and create employment.

They could have avoided that by going to the Labour Management Review Committee, but they knew that the changes they were proposing were so one-sided that they would destroy the ability of Manitoba to attract investment, that they would not be agreed to by the 34 people on the management side, on the busin ess and investment side, and so they ignored that Labour Management Review Committee for the first time in mo re than a decade. So much for co-operation, harmony and equity in the workplace. The crowning irony of this all, Mr.

Speaker, when you look at those phrases in the Th rone Speech, is that the Minister of Labour, who is supposed to oversee and set the tone for labour harmony in this province, under pressure from the union bosses who rattled his cage, went out and tore up his Eaton's credit card in a demonstra tion of his support for one side in a labour dis pute in this province and across the country. How's that for a person who's supposed to be even-minded and preside over the harmony and the labour relations of this province.

He goes out a couple of years ago and he participates in an American flag burning and now he tears up his Eaton's card to show which side he's on in a labour management dispute. There's an example of a fine, fair-minded, decent arbiter. Mr. Speaker, the Throne Speech talks about the program in agriculture that this administration has formulated. They call it their five-point program for farm economy recovery. The irony of it is that almost everyone of those five points is either partially or totally dependent on Federal Government action. Mr.

Speaker, the only one that they appear to be ready to take action on was the announcement that we had today by the Minister of Agriculture. This Minister is now doing something that he was urged to do for months and months - if now even years - by people on this side of the House and this use the vehicle of MACC to do what he could do. Instead of going out and calling for meetings, Sir, he called for meetings with other governments and one of the reasons that other governments didn't come to the meetings was that they had already taken action.

In fact, low interest loans was a policy that was instituted in Alberta last fall. In fact, it was being instituted in Saskatchewan months ago. In fact, Sir, Saskatc hewan came up with legislation to protect the land that a farmer farms on. They were doing things and this Minister was calling for meetings. Is it any wonder why they didn't come to his meetings, Mr. Speaker? The second point - effective stablilization programs for western grains and oil seeds, Mr. Speaker. That's a total federal init iative and , in fact, the Federal Government has introduced already a bill in the House to deal with that matter.

He puts as one of his points improved coverage levels under the Crop Insurance Program. Easy for him to say, because that's 50 percent funded by the farmer and 50 percent by the Federal Government; but I tell you this, Mr. Speaker, Saskatchewan has already acted on it and has improved the crop insur ance program in their area far beyond what he's contemplating. Saskatchewan has done a better job already, while he's talking in his Throne Speech of some empty commitments. Mr. Speaker, he talks about amendments to The Grain Transportation Act, a total federal responsibi lity and initiative that's already under way.

He talks about aggressive trade and market development for our agriculure exports and all we've seen is Minister after Minister travelling around the world at public expense to Cuba, to the Far East and all over the place on a joy ride. Tha t 's his ide a of marke t and export

Monday, 11 March, 1985 development - no commitment that we have seen and they've been in office for three years. Mr. Speaker, it goes beyond that. The biggest concern of all is the uncertainty and the nervousness that the Minister of Agricul tur e has created in the farm community by flip-flopping and bouncing around on a num ber of di fferent plans of action which, if impl emen ted , could be dis astrous to the farm community. First, he proposed to coerce all the lending institution s - the credit unions, the banks and others - to roll back their loans to 8 percent.

On the su rface that might have sounded good but the long-term effect of that would be that if the lending institution s could only get 8 percent from the farmers and 12 percent from regular lenders in business, commercial and private loans, Mr. Speaker, the farmers wouldn't get the money that they needed to operate their farms. Without access to sufficient credit, the 90 percent of the farmers who are not in difficulty in Manitoba today would be totally placed in jeopardy. This governmen t and this Minister's answer is obviously , make everyone suffer equally. That's his response to a problem. Mr.

Speake r, his next propo sal was farm debt moratorium legislation which he later changed to say was actually farm debt adjustment legislation, which he later changed to say he wasn't sure and he'd withdr aw it for the moment.

The effect of farm debt moratorium legislation would be to transfer the problem from the farmer to the suppl iers of the farm community so the seed, the feed, the fertilizer, the chemical suppl iers, the equip ment suppli ers now would have no assurance that they could collect their debt from the farmers, so they'd either be forced to not give credit to the farmers, which again would be very very harmful to the farmers' interests or they would kill the farm community and they would kill the agriculture support community because the suppli ers would go under because they couldn't collect their debts.

Again, an irresponsible proposal that would spread the misery over everyone and place everybody in jeopardy. Why do they come up with these ideas, Mr. Speaker? Why? Because they didn 't consu lt. They didn't go and talk to people in the farm community; they didn't go to the lending institutions; they didn't go to the suppliers, to the farm community before he made those proposals. Only after there was such a violent, negative reaction did he then go out and have a series of meetings throughout the province about those proposals. Is it any wonder that he caused that kind of unrest?

Is it any wonder that his plans were rejected by people throughout the farm community? That's the kind of action we don't need from this Minister of Agriculture, Mr. Speaker. The Throne Speech devotes a

section to tax reform and it gives the government's position in favour of tax reform. It says that this administration believes that a "proliferation of special preferences and incentives, many high income individuals and large corporations have been able to avoid their fair share of taxes through these special incentives and preferences." I agree that there has become a very complex system in our taxation practices in this country.

But what hypocrisy for this administration to be pointing a finger at anyone for taking advantage of tax loopholes when they were the first in line last spring 35 to take advantage of such a loophole when they used that preferred share scam or scheme, whatever you like to call it, by selling the buildings of this governmen t into a private corporation so that they could take out of the Federal Treasury some $25 million or $30 million. They could raise $250 million at 9.25 percent, a better rate than they could get anywhere else and they did that, Mr.

Speaker, and the way in which they did that was to take advantage of that tax incentive and allow high income individuals to avoid paying their fair share of taxes. They took advantage of exactly what they're saying shouldn't be done in the tax system. Mr. Speaker, because now they think they can get some political mileage out of talking about tax reforms, after they'v e had their nose in the trough and taken advantage of some loopholes, they go out and say we're going to have to change things. Good heavens, isn't this a terrible system under which we live?

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, by comparison, Mr. Speaker, because they might say, well, what would you do? I like to look at what ordin ary people are doing in society today when faced with this kind of moral conflict, with this kind of dilemma where they honestly don't believe in certain things that take place but they feel they have to take action on it even if it costs them personally. Mr.

Speaker, independent pharmacists throughout our province made a decision not too long ago not to sell cigarettes in their drugstor es and they made that decision because they felt that as members of the health care team, health care professionals in this province, they should take a stand saying that they believe that smoking is harmful to people's health; so they took the stand and many of them are not selling cigarettes in their drugstores.

I can tell you, in many instances, these independent pharmacists have given up direct profit of several thous and dollars in order to achieve that, to put their money where their mouth is, to stand by their principles. That's the way ordinary people do it; that's not the way the New Democrats do it. They talk one thing and they do another, Mr. Speaker. Further, we have in this Throne Speech, Mr. Speaker, information on education. In this

section we are again gi ven no indication by this admin istration of an understan ding of the challenges before us. The Throne Speech gives an indication that the government will provide an increase in funding this year to public schools of $1 1. 8 million, by far the lowest increase of any government in the past four years, Mr. Speaker, and a continuation of the special conditional grants that are based more on politics than on policy. This from an NDP administration which, when campaigning iri 19 81, promised that they would ease the burden on the property taxpayer in Manitoba.

That's what they said in 1981, in that election manifesto that all of us have. Last fall, the Minister of Education, who was gettin g very nervous about the criticism that she was gettin g tor the direction they were taking on education finance, said that her government was committed to transfer more of the burden and the share of the cost of educ ation off the property tax on to the general revenues. She said that they were committed to go from 80 percent off general revenues to 90 percent from general revenu es. That's what she said in November of last year, Mr. Speaker. Shortly after making

Monday, 11 March, 1985 that announ cem ent , howeve r, she made the announ cement that is in the Throne Speech and that is that she is actually giving only 2 percent increase to the public school system of this province, a 2 percent increase, if you're lucky, at a time when inflation is running at 4.5 percent. Where's the difference going to come between the increased costs of the school boards and the 2 percent that she's giving? Where's that difference of 2.5 percent going to come? It's going to come off the property taxes of this province, Mr.

Speaker, and we know that it's going to happen because the headlines are there already. Sir, here's one that might be of interest to the Premier because it comes from the front page of the Selkirk Enterprise, February 26, 1985. The headline is, "Large Increase Expected on School Taxes in 19 85" and it goes on to say that the Lord Selkirk School Division is lacing an increase as a result of underfunding by this administration, of 10-12 percent on its property taxes in Manitoba, in Selkirk, this year. Then a few days later we had this headline from the Winnipeg Free Press.

It said in the Winnipeg School Division property taxes for schools are expected to rise 23 percent, Mr. Speaker, a 23 percent increase. That, added on to what has happened over the past three years of this admin istration, and in the first three years - (Int erjec tion) - Mr. Speake r, the Min ist er of Education is finding humour in this - of this NDP admin ist ra tion, prope rty taxe s in Winnipe g have increased almost four times as much as they did in the entire four years of the previous Conservative admini strat ion.

So much for the promise of easing the burden on the property taxpayer by this administrat ion . More important ly, Mr. Speaker, although the Throne Speech refers to taking steps to improve and protect the qualit y of education in this province, and heaven knows that there's evidence that we need to improve the qualit y of education, because we have here from a newspaper

article a report about what has happened in terms of education standards in Winnipeg. It refers to a report of testing that's gone on in Winnipeg; it says that the report indicated a continuing drop scores on standard ized national tests by stude nts the Winnipeg School Division. The report made public Tuesday, said Grades 1, 4, 7 and 10 stud ents performed worse this year than last year in the Canadian test of basic skills and their scores remained below the national average. That's what's happening in terms of of education in our province, Mr.

Speaker. evidence of what this government's commitment is to qualit y education; not the platitudinous statements in the Throne Speech. Mr. Speaker, as well, we've had parents showing an ever-increasing interest in sending their children to private and parochial schools, to independent schools in this province, because they're concerned about the deteriorating qualit y in some public schools. Nowhere in the gove rnment's plans and proposals do we see what's really needed; a commitment to better standards, to making achievement and excellence one of our goals in education in Manitoba. In fact, Mr.

Speaker, all of the legislative actions of this government with respect to education, and the ones that have been dis cussed publicly over the last number of months, have been aimed at what I'll call a union mentality approach to changes in The Public 36 Schools Act dealing with tenure, with pensions, with retirement agreements, with employee relations, but none dealing with quality of education standards and achievement which people should expect. Mr. Speaker, let's look at the

section that deals with health, it's entitled "Enhancing Health Care." I begin, Mr. Speaker, by commending the Minister for a number of welcome initiatives. He says in the Throne Speech that there will be - increased staff and new equipment to increase day eye surgery capacity to i,000 procedures a year and reduce waiting lists for elective surgery; a welcome initiative, Mr. Speaker, we're pleased to support it. The Throne Speech says that - additional resources will be provided to improve training for expanded neonatal intensive care units; a welcome initiative.

That one, incidentally, came out of the Maternal and Child Health Care Task Force that was an initiative of a former Conservative administration, and we, of course, support that, Mr. Speaker. It says that - as a result of a successful five-year experimental program - that was started under our adminis tration - we' ll es tablish and rei nforce chemotherapy services at several rural hospitals. Mr. Speaker, a welcome initiative and one that we're glad to support.

Having said that, I remind all of you that this NOP administration promised in its election booklet entitled "A Clear Choice For Manitobans" - Health Care Not Cut backs. That was their slogan, health care not cut backs . Yet, the evi dence point s to worsen ing situations all throughout the health care system and it questions our ability, Mr. Speaker, to provide equality health care in this province at the presen t time.

For instance, although there's reference to a new personal care home in Brandon and the Throne Speech, it fails to mention that, as a result of the closure of two privately operated personal care homes by this administration, there will actually be fewer personal care beds in Brandon. The Throne Speech mentions the expansion, as I said earlier, of day surge ry and outpatient services at Brandon General Hospital, but this is what the officials at Brandon General Ho sp it al said about that ann ouncement.

"While any incre ase is welcome, officials said it will take much more than an 12 beds in the expansion to eliminate a record-high waiting list for surg ery. This is a stopgap - from a stopgap government I might Mr. Speaker - "said the Executive Director Glenn Chapman, adding there are more 1,300 people on a waiting list for surg ery at the hospital; some of these are urgent. We should them in as quickly as possible. Urgent cases wait about four weeks for admission, while people needing elective surgery wait six months or more," he said. Mr.

Speaker, that wait of six months is more than three times as long as it was when this government took office in 19 81. That's the kind of commitment they have to health care, Mr. Speaker; their commitment, I'm afraid, is more to cutbacks than it is to health care in this province. Mr. Speaker, we all remember the series of articles that was entitled "Hospitals In Crisis". It appeared last spring in one of our daily newspapers and it told Manitobans very clearly about the serious deterioration

Monday, 11 March, 1985 of services and support that has occurred in our health care institutions under this NOP administration. Then, last sum mer, we had the revelation that acutely ill babies had to be flown out of the province, to go for treatment to other provin ces, to other hospitals, because we lacked the resources and we lacked the facilities to look after these acutely ill babies here in Manitoba. That's the first time in my memory that's happened, Mr. Speaker, and it happened under an NOP administration. Well, Mr.

Speaker, finally, after spend ing the better part of his first three years in office taking over the bingos and lotteries of this province, our Minister of Health woke up sometime last fall and said we have serious problems in health care in Manitoba and we have to address them. He said we're going to have to consider new priorities; we're goin g to have to consider new sources of income; we're goin g to have to consider major changes he said. He said, Mr. Speaker, that we're already spending 30 percent of our Budget on health care in this province.

Well, I've got news for him, it was 30 percent of our Budget in 1981 when they took office, Mr. Speaker; it hasn't changed to any appreciable extent. He said that the public demand for health care services was almost insat iable and it just couldn't go on. Well, here's what were some of the suggestions he was making. Firstly, these weren't suggestions, these are things he's already done. He's increased the per diem rates for residents in personal care homes over 37 percent in the three years sin ce he's been in government.

The members on this side, of course, remember how members of the New Democratic Party argued against any increases in the per diem rates for personal care homes. The Minister of Energy is smilin g because he used to get up and wring his hands and say this wasn't good; he said this was awful for the low income people of this province, this was a terrible thing to do, and his administration has increased it over 37 percent in three years. Mr.

Speaker, the Minister of Energy, who can speak out of both sides of his mouth at the same time, argued when he was in opposition that it was wrong to increase the deductible in Pharmacare. What did they do within the past month? They increased the deductible 33 percent, Mr. Speaker, in one fell swoop. Now where is the fire of commitment and passion to look after the health care interests of the working poor, the needy people of this province, from the Minister of Energy? It's gone, Mr. Speaker, it's gone because he's in government. Mr. Speaker, it gets worse.

When this Minister of Health promised health care, not cutbacks, he now is saying, after making that promise in the past, he is now saying that we have to look at all possi bilities for economizing, for changing out priorities. One of the suggestions that he made was that residents and patients in our health care institutions in Manitoba should pay for their own meals. Can you imagine, Mr. Speaker?

In 19 78, un der the former Conser vative administration, it was brought to the attention of this Legislature by New Democratic members that they were giving consideration to changing the breakfast meals in personal care homes so that instead of giving them three strips of bacon, they would give them two strips 37 of bacon with their breakfast meal, and that became a rall yin g cry of th e New Democrats. They went throughout this province, it was on the front page of the newspapers and they said three strips of bacon, we've got to have three strips of bacon. Well, now, Mr.

Speaker, the Minister of Health is proposing to take away the entire meal and they're not saying a word, not saying a word. Talk about hypocrisy, Mr. Speaker, this Throne Speech is filled with it from the New Democrats opposite. As in everything else, Mr. Speaker, in health care this administration is totally bereft of ideas for real positive change in our health care system tod ay. They look only at the narrow perspective of expenditures and costs.

They'd prefer to tinker with the existing system, cutting back here, raisin g fees there, unwilling to ask the question - are we dealing with an entire concept that's out of date? Is our emphasis misplaced on the wrong priorities? In other words, to a large extent the system that exists today is geared towards the objective of treatin g sick people. But, Mr. Speaker, we have a body of knowledge, a growing body of knowledge and experts throughout the world, and certainly many of them in our province, that can tell people the benefits of investing more of our resources in keeping our healthy people well.

We've got to work at motivating and encouraging people, to let them know that they have a role to play - every individual in this province - to protect his or her own health. The most popular books and programs today that you see throughout society are ones that deal with diet, with exercise, with nutrition, with lifestyle. The opportunity exists for every individual to have a positi ve change in improving his health, to participate in this whole process and the Minister of Energy knows because he is committed to that sort of thing. But, Mr. Speaker, it appears nowhere in the messages of this government.

There appears to be no commitment and no intention to do it. Everyone can participate in this but we need a government to show some leadership and show the way. In the long term, Mr. Speaker, this approach has a much greater chance of reducing our massive rate of increase in health care costs than any of the cutbacks that the Minister is proposing, than any of the rate increases and any of the tinkering that appears in his messages in his Throne Speech. Mr. Speaker, the

section on seniors talks about safeguarding health, independence and personal dignity of the elderly Manitobans; that's a laudable objective. But it seems to me that one of the best ways to achieve this is to help them to remain in their own homes. Today many of them are being threatened with not being able to remain in their homes because being on relatively fixed income, with the property taxes having risen as rapidly as they have and are going to rise under this administration, more and more of our elderly are going to be driven out of their own homes because they can't afford to live there as a result, a direct result of the actions of this administration, Mr. Speaker. We have a

section on Urban Development and it refers to the agreement being sought from the Federal and Municipal Governments to renew, I quote, " ... the successful programs of the Core Area Initiative". When we were in government we were signatories to the origin al Core Area Initiatives Agreement, Mr. Speaker. My colleage from St. Norbert piloted that

Monday, 11 March, 1985 matter through the Legislature and we were pleased to participate because this original five-year $96 million tri-le vel agreement had the prospect of rest oring, renovating and renewing and making vibrant again our Core area. It was a program, Mr. Speaker, I believe that did hold out the prospect of creating employment, of improving the lot of those who live in the Core area, with jobs, with a greater sense of self-worth and with a pride in a renewed revitalized environment. But unfortunately, Mr.

Speaker, under this adminis tration it has become a politi cal foot ball, with interference, bickering, blatant attempts by some of the partners to take extra political credit and unf ortunately the Core Area Initiative summa ry of just what has happened in its first four years does not give us a great deal of confidence that the original goals and targets have been met. In fact it's just the opposite. We have here, Mr. Speaker, an

article about that summa ry of the first four years of the Core Area Initiatives in the March 8th issue of the Free Press. It says - and the title is "Job Industry Targets Missed Core Staff Admits" - Core Area Initiative officials have admitted the job creation targets may have been optim istic and that the program has failed to bring large new industries to Winnipeg's core. It reveals that under the initiatives, training and employment program, 203 people were trained and placed in jobs while about 18 0 dropped out.

Now there are other Core Area Initiat ive Programs that have helped companies and agencies create an additional 719 permanent and term positions, the report says. Mr. Speaker, there was an expectation of thousands of jobs. We're just talking of hundreds here and even that is stretching it. Even that is stretching it because so much of it is in the structure itself, all of the staff that have been hired by the Core Area Initiative the make-work short-term approach to it, that's where so much of the jobs are to this point in time, Mr. Speaker, and none of the long-term objectives are being met.

It quotes the new general manager of the Core Area Initia tives. It says, "August said much of the blame can be attributed to the new Logan Industrial Park. The Industrial Park, one of the most controversial aspects of the initiative was touted as having the potential for 1,0 00 new jobs when plans were unveiled in 1981, but not a single industry has agreed to move in despite the offer of nearly $7 million in government incentives grants". Mr. Speaker, it goes on further. It says, "The Logan Park was delayed for a year while the city and the province fought over residents' objections to being moved out.

In the end it was decided to slash the industrial site to a third of its plan-size to allow some residents to remain. The whole Logan shemo zzle, to be the most charitable with it that one can be, cost us a year in time lost," said Matthew Kiernan, the Assistant Executive Director of the Core Area Initiatives. One year lost, a whole shemozzle and no jobs created because of political interference by this admin istration, who destroyed the opportunity for having something of value come out of the Core Area Init iatives, Mr.

Speaker, and after four years of the five-year program, theyare saying, but well the answer is to simply commit more money to the Core Area Initiat ives. Just keep on going, they say, Mr. Speaker. 38 Mr. Speaker, aside from the soft costs and the other little programs that are very minimal in terms of their effect, there has been little of lasting tangible effect from the Core Area Initiatives and, more importantly, members opposite talked about the ability to attract private investment, and that was one of the goals. Well, Mr.

Speaker, aside from the Chinatown redevelopment that has been successfu l, there has been precious little pr ivate in vestment attracted as a result of th e commi tment of $96 mil lion, one- thir d from thi s provincial government. If this administration is so satisfied with the results to date that it wants to rush in and commit another $32 million, Mr. Speaker, I'm sure there's a few people around who might have a bridge they might want to sell. Mr.

Speaker, I am sure as well when we look at the Urban Development part of this Throne Speech that the mayor and members of City Council in Winnipeg found it more than ironic that the Throne Speech offers block funding to small northern communities, while this NDP adminis tration has taken away the principle of block funding from the City of Winnipeg, has in fact instit uted conditional grants, has in fact gone forward to impose its will on capital spending programs of the city and has decided to muscle in on decisions to do with financial priorities with urban planning and all sorts of things against the City of Winnipeg, who has the expertis e in planning, in municipal fina nce and everything else that goes well beyond the level of expertise that's contained within the handful of people who are in the Urban Affairs Department, but they have chosen to impose their political will over this City of Winni peg government and then, on the other hand, to offer block funding to small remote no rthern communities.

Mr. Speaker, you'll remember another promise of this administration in 1981, it was called co-operation, not confrontation. That's what they said that they would stand for. Mr. Speaker, we got examples of that today when the Minister of Agriculture stood up and berated the Federal Minister of Finance, but we've had better examples than that throughout the past years of this administration, Mr. Speaker.

Just last fall we had a good example of the co­ operative approach of this administration to a good prog ram , a health care program, one tha t has tremendous potential value for the people of Brandon, and that, Sir, is the Children's Dental Health Care Program. Mr. Speaker, The Minister of Health decided - and I think with some good justification, as we have - that we should attempt to expand the Children's Dental Health Care Program in Manitoba, and that we should expand it in Winnipeg, and we should expand it in Brandon.

So he said to the people in Brandon, you can have this Children's Dental Health Care Program, but you can have it only if you choose the delivery system that we want. We want it delivered by the dental nurses that we want to hire on our provincial staff. We don't want it delivered by the practising professional dentists of Brandon. Mr. Speaker, when the School Board in Brandon said, no, we dis agree. For our purposes and for our commun ity, we believe it should be delivered by the dentists, by the professionals who practise in Brandon.

We believe that they have more to offer; we believe that the children will get a better

Monday, 11 March, 1985 service. What did The Minister of Health say? My way or the doorway. He said if you don't take my offer you get nothing. Tha t 's co-operation from an NDP administration; that's what they offer in terms of co­ operation. Mr. Speaker, when they were looking at taking over the bingos and the lotteries of this province, they went and they said, we don't care about those community­ based groups that have been getting income as a result of their own efforts in holding bingos - the Legion people, the Lions, the service clubs - who were raising money Mr.

Speaker, through bingos throughout this province in every community and every hamlet in this province because they were willing to put their efforts in. They were raising money for social services, for com muni ty services, for charitable projects. The Minister of Health said, we don't like what's happening in bingos and lotteries of this province; we don't like you people going out on a self-help basis and raising money for your communities; we're going to take you over, he said.

Without consultation, without giving them an alternative, he said, we're taking over; we're going to print the paper on which the bingos are played; we're going to print the tickets from you; and we're going to take it out of your hands because we don't trust you - confronta tion, not co-opera tion, no t consultation, but confrontation. Mr. Speaker, they're making less money. MR. R. BANMAN: You'r e making less money. Every bingo is making less money. That's going to cause you more problem than you realize, Howard. You screwed up the bingo so bad it's going to cost you the election.

SOME HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. G. FILMON: Mr. Speaker, I seem to have touched upon a few sensitive chords but I will try and continue. Another area, and I don't know why it's from the same Minis ter, Mr. Spe aker, but now we are talking in terms of co-operations, and another area is the changes tha t were made to chiropr actic coverage in thi s province. These changes, Mr.

Speaker, were just made a short while ago so many people in this province are not yet aware but, as they become aware, they are becoming very angry because what this government has done is to unilaterally wipe out a signed agreement with the chiropractors of this province with three months left to go in the contract. They unilaterally reduced the number of visits that chronic chiropratic patients could have under MHSC coverage. They unilaterally reduced the number of visits for corrective treatments to one-third of what they might have been able to get under the old arrangements.

They did this without consultation with the chiropractors and without considering what would happen to the patients of those chiropractors. So now patients of those chiropractors are not going to be able to get coverage under MHSC and they are going to have to pay for the extra visits themselves. They forced the patients into extra billing charges from chiropractors unilaterally without consulta tion. They withdr ew this opportunit y from the chiropractic practitioners of this province and, Mr. Speaker, they are the ones who talk about fairness.

It was done without talking to them, it was done without 39 knowledge of them or their patients, and they did it in a manner that is absolutely terrible in terms of their consideration of the people costs of this sort of move, and they did it, despite the fact that they say they are committed to fairness. One other area, Mr. Speaker, of confrontation that they have entered into is that over the adoption of Plan Winnip eg, the City of Winnipeg's long-range plan for the development of this city. Mr.

Speaker, this province has said that they will not approve Plan Winnipeg unless they have the veto over the ultimate urban development line in that plan. Where is co-operation between two .levels of government? Where is co-operation between the city and province when they say, "unilaterally we'll veto it because we don't like your choice of urban development line." Mr.

Speaker, the Throne Speech further talks about community services and it starts with the phrase, "In keeping with its commitment to caring for Manitobans, my government will set before you measures . . . to strengthen sup por t services for famil ies ... to stren gthe n commu nity services for mentally handicapped people." Well, let's see how that translates into action. One of the first things they have done recently has been to close down the School of Nursing at the Manitoba Developmental Centre in Portage la Prairie. Now we have met with staff at that Developmental Centre, Mr.

Speak er, and we have met with rep resentatives of the psych iatric nur ses in this province. Mr. Speaker, there are three locations at which psychiatric nurses are trained in this province, but this school in Portage la Prairie is unique of among the three for a number of different reasons. I will quote some of the reasons from the brief that was given to the Minister of Community Services and the Minister of Health. They may not think that this is important but th e peopl e who are affected think it is very important, Mr.

Speaker, and think that it speaks to the commitment and the sense of fairness and decency of this government when it comes to social services and community services. Mr. Speaker, here is what they said about this particular school that this goverment is now considering closing, if they haven't already made the decision. I quote: "This school is the only one that provides the students a behaviour modificiation research project geared to meeting the unique needs of the developmentally handicapped individual." Mr.

Speaker, the other two schools that tr ain psychiatric nurses in this province do not deal with developmental handicaps and do not deal with mental retardat ion, and that is going to be a gap that will not be filled by the other two schools. It goes further, Mr. Speaker, and they say, "An understanding of ihe developmentally handicapped person as a whole individual is of paramount importance to the program in the Portage la Prairie School.

It's because of such an understanding that graduates from the School of Nursing at this centre can be seen to be unique and valuable in the field of developmental rehabilitation. Indeed the value of the School of Nursing must be measured against its proven ability to educate students and enhancing the qu alit y of life for developmentally handicapped people." Mr. Speaker, they don't care about that, they are cutting it out. Mr. Speaker, it's ironic because with the

Monday, 11 March, 1985 changes that they are contemplating and they have ann ou nced to greater com munit y-based living th roughout the province, they will require smaller resident staff ratios than exist in these institutions. They will need more prof ess ionals to deal in projects like the Welcome Home and other initia tives that are good initiat ives, that are positive for dealing in the field of mental health in this province, Mr.

Speaker, but they are going contrary to that by removing one of the prime resou rces for providing profess ionally trained people to work in these new centres, to work in these smaller group homes and the se commun ity- based living environments. Mr. Speaker, they've taken away the source of training people who specialize in mental retardation and working with children.

The Minister has said publicly that the Core Area Initiati ve Training Program will provide people to work in these environments but she doesn't even realize that they only train at the aid level, that th ese are professional psychiatric nurses with all of the other experiences of working with children that is needed for her programs. In speaking - and I'd like to quote this - in speaking to one of the staff members at that particular nursing school on Friday evening who was talking about this change, this is what she said, and I thought it was striking.

She said, "This idea could not have come from people with an un de rst anding or caring for the developed mentally handicapped. It was a callous, thoughtl ess decision based only on money and the irony of it is that it will merely transfer costs to the health department and little will be saved in the end." Mr. Speaker, that from a caring government, that from a government that talks about its commitment for caring for Manitobans. Let's take a look a little further at some of the other issues that this government has to take respon sibility for.

They say that they're interested in strengthening Child and Family Services. We've had a freeze on Native adoptions for almost three years that has resulted in hundreds of Native babies placed in limbo, shunted from foster home to foster home with little or no help of having a se cure, loving, permanent family relationship. In addition to the problems that are being caused by the fact that there aren't sufficient homes for the adop tion in Na ti ve famil ies of Nat ive chi ldren in Manitoba, we now find in an

article in today's paper that child agencies are fearing a shortage of foster parents in Manitoba - foster parents. In short, it's because of the actions of this caring government.

We have files from the Children's Aid Societies of this province in which Native mothers are now unwilling to give up their children for adoption because they don't want to resign them to this type of life in future of being shunted from foster home to foster home, group home environment and whatever have you, never having the prospect and hope of being adopted into a family that can give them the love and care that they need on a permanent long-term basis. Mr. Speaker, their ideology takes precedent over their real care and concern every single "time.

The Throne Speech refers to the matter of rights and liberties and here's one area in which I can commend the government. There are a number of initia tives here that I think are !audible. The Throne 40 Speech talks about the fact that violence against dependent persons in our society must be checked, that we must take additional steps to strengthen efforts agains t spousal abuse and child abuse and elderly abuse, and I say bravo. Would that it were done already. Mr. Speaker, that's an initiative that we support in this Throne Speech.

There has been an increase in violence in society in Manitoba to some extent because of the economic depression in this province; because we have more people unemployed and because of the tragedy of unemployment we have, in fact, had a greater increase in violence in society today and this government had better take some of the responsibility for that and had better take some of the action. Mr. Speaker, the y talk about steps to combat pornography and hate literature and carry on quickly because it has to come and it has to be done.

We can't continue to proliferate the pornography and the hate literature in society the way it's happening without action by government and we're glad that this administration is finally waking up. This Throne Speech talks about strengthening the campaign against drinking and driving, about having the ALERT Campaign utilized year round and we agree with that, Mr. Speaker. In fact, when we were in government I know that my colleague from St. Norbert was very much involved in supporting the ALERT Program. At that time it was only over the Christmas holidays and now it's year round.

But I find it ironic ttiat the Attorney-General who is now on the bandwagon, who is now saying tha t the ALERT Program is a good program that should be expanded and stren gthened, was on CBC giving editorial comment when we were in government - and my colleague from St. Norbert was the Attorney-General - and in his editorial comment he took issue with the ALERT Program. He said at that time that it went contrary to human rights and civil liberties. He said that, in effect, it was apprehension and arrest without charge.

He said that it was search and seizure without reasonable and probable grounds to believe that an offence had been comm itted and that, as such, it was a blatant violation of human rights and civil liberties. That's what he said. That was the now Attorney-General, the Member for Fort Rouge who said that many many years ago, Mr. Speaker, but now he's on the bandwagon and he believes that the ALERT is a good program and it should be expanded. I say, Mr. Speaker, I'm glad that he's finally seen the light. Mr.

Speaker, we're glad to see the changes being proposed in The Consumer Protection Act; we're glad to see the changes to The Mortgage Dealers' Act and we'r e gl ad to see the opportun ity for the Film Classification Board to classify home vide o tapes because again, Mr. Speaker, we asked for that last year. Our children should not be exposed from this opportunity to be unknowingly shown some of this filth that is being shown in the home movies. We're glad that finally this classification is taking place. Mr.

Speaker, with respect to the item on spousal and child abuse, it's indeed one of the most pressing problems and issues of our time and it's essential that government not only commit the funds to advertise and create an awareness of the adverse effects of spousal and child abuse but rather that it start putting some

Monday, 11 March, 1985 of the funds toward crisis centres and toward homes where these battered children and battered wives can find shelter at times of need. That's what is needed and that's the kind of commitment that we need. Mr. Speaker, the Throne Speech refers to pay equ ity. What does it mean? As today's Free Press editorial says, "In this context, pay equity is a slogan, hardly more. It has the hollow sound of a wish to do something collided with a wish to do nothing." Is this the kind of leadership that we're going to show?

And I ask the Minister responsible for women's issues in this province, is this the kind of leadership that we're going show at the Federal-Provincial Conference when it's held here in June on women's issues? Mr. Speaker, pay equity is a cop-out on the part of this government. It's not a commitment to equal pay for work of equal value; it's not a commitment to employment equality. It's rhetoric by a government that has done little in four years to advance the cause of equality of women in our society. Let's look at the facts, Mr. Speaker.

In our Provincial Civil Service there are 249 senior officers - 19 of them, 7.6 percent are women. The gov ernment has established an affirmative action program within the Civil Service but obviously it's accomplished very little to date. That's it, that's the record that they're proud of - 7.6 percent - 7.6 percent after three years of talking, after three years of rhetoric. Wh at are the poli cie s of thi s go ve rnment, Mr. Speaker? What are their plans to remove the systemic barriers in the Civil Service, besides a weak beginning and no commitment?

What prog rams are the y developing that will ensure women are eligible for training and eligible for promotion? What's their action plan? What are their monitoring devices? What is their accountability on this issue? Pay equity is a weak response to a grave concern. How can this government stand before us with these meager plans and these accomplishments? I'm sure that most Manitobans agree that men and women doing the same job under the same conditions should receive the same pay. This is the law at the federal level in the public service passed in 19 78.

My party and I support this and are committed to achieving this. What's holding the government back? You'v e had three years to take action on the matter. The 19 78 federal law governing the federal public service gives women equal pay for work of equal value. Also, Mr. Speaker, my colleagues at the federal level are moving ahead to implement their plan that will see at least 30 percent of all Order-in-Council appointments going to women. These are appointments to federal boards, commissions and agencies and they're also acting to increase the number of women at senior levels in the public service.

They've stated their views openly and they're working to achieve them. I support the initiat ives they're taking and I agree with Flora MacDonald in her reply last Friday to Judge Rosalie Abella's Royal Commission on Equality in Employment when she says, "Employment equity is a key element of our labour strategy. Full participation by all Canadians contrib utes to employment growth, and it is just as important as economic justice." Mr. Speaker, employment equity is a basic principle, is a principle that we accept.

It's a concept that removes employment barriers, and it identifies and removes 41 discrim inatory policies and practices and fosters fair representation in the labour market for women. What are this government's principles? How is it that in Ontario, the Ontario Civil Service, and I hasten to rem ind that's under a Cons ervative province, a Conservative administration, women are now paid 80 percent of what men are on average in the Ontario Civil Service,

whereas the country-wide average is only 60 percent? Mr. Speaker, will pay equity - and I hope that the Minister will respond - achieve this for Manitoba women? Let's have the Premier tell us what pay equity really stands for. Simone Veil, the first woman President of the European Parliament, said that there is no equality ·for women without economic equality. She went on to add that legal equality must be broadened to include equality of mentality. My colleagues and I, Sir, are committed to achieve this, and we want to know what the government means. Mr. Speaker, the situation in our province today is clear.

It is time for a change of government. It's time for a new di rect ion in our politi cal affairs. This government cannot lead us into the years ahead. They're incompetent managers and they're ideologues who have strayed far from their campaign promises and commitments. They practise confrontation tactics after promising co-operation between government and all sectors of society. The Throne Speech speaks to many needs and the document is not without merit, as I've said.

There are positive points, but on the whole it offers little but recycled NDP policies that despite three years of opportunity have failed to get the province moving again. The government says that unemployment is their greatest concern, and at the same time they bring in a 1. 5 percent direct tax on employment. They have also brought in increases of over 50 percent in Workers Compensation fees over the past three years, and one­ sided , anti-busi ness labour legislation. This is not positive action.

They claim as well that they want to attract private sector investment, so they proceed to set up a Crown­ owned oil and gas corporation in direct competition with a thriving, competitive private sector in Manitoba. They have also initiated an investigation into the establishment of a Crown-owned life insur ance and pension management firm in direct competition to a thriving, competitive array of locally-based life insurance com panie s in the private sector. This act ion - (Interjection) - well, Mr. Speaker, I am interested to hear that.

The Government House Leader says that they aren't committed to go into the life insurance and pension management. We'll find out, Mr. Speaker. - (Interjection) - I said they've initiated an investigation. Mr. Speaker, this action, their investigating of the possibil ity of going into life insurance and pension management th rows into jeopardy a thriving insur ance industry that today employs 11 ,000 jobs directly and indirectly, and has $2.6 billion of direct investment in Manitoba. This is a government, Mr.

Speaker, that on the one hand talks about spending the taxpayers' money wisely, and then runs up three straight years of deficits between $400 and $500 million, and watches helplessly while three Crown-owned companies in forestry produc ts, seed and packaging and manufacturing run up annual deficits of $40 million. That's what they call spending the taxpayers' money wisely.

Monday, 11 March, 1985 Mr. Speaker, the private sector is struggling to remain viable to pay the taxes to support the government whose finances are out of control. It is obvious that this government canno t mana ge the econo my, and increasingly obvious that their social commitment to caring for Manitobans is largely rhetoric. The NOP like to think that they've got a cornerstone on humanity and a unique understand ing of the concerns of the ordinary citizen. It is just not so, Mr. Speaker.

In reality, they have not fulfilled people's expectations, and their record in government is poor on a number of social issues. I have spoken about them today, but the very fact that the NOP stress that they want to care for Manitobans is enough to make us wonder what kind of political state they are crea ting in Manitoba. We are a proud people. We are a strong and hard­ working people with a diversity of background, with a diversity of culture and origins that has made us independent and creative and resilient. Our economy has been relatively stable, and we have built on strengths over the years.

The present decline that we're in is largely the result of this government's inability to properly utilize both the natural resources and the people resources of this province. Mr. Speaker, Manitobans don't want to be cared for in the NOP way from cradle to grave. They want to contribute to their society. They don't want a socialist welfare state. That's the model that this government wants to impose on us. They don't want to em brace the misdi rected ideolo gy tha t these people have imposed on us over the past three years. Mr.

Speaker, Manitobans want jobs and a standard of living that will give them a better quality of life. They want their children to have jobs when they graduate and complete their training, and they want to know that government is working with them, not against them, in their efforts to build a better place for young and old alike. The time has come, Mr. Speaker, for this government to face the people with their plans and to be judged on their record. There's no reason to wait The business of running Manitoba is too important to be left with this gover nment any longer. This government, Mr.

Speaker, continues to perpetrate the myth that only they care for Manitobans. Well, I say it's time that they laced the people to find out whether Manitobans care for this govern ment. Mr. Speaker, I move, THAT the motion be amended by adding to it the following words: 42 But this House regrets: (

a) The comp lete lack of any major economic development or job creation efforts in the private sector; (

b) The continuing commitment of the government's mispla ced priorities on expensive advertising programs whil e health care and commun ity services continue to deteriorate; (

c) That the government has totally failed in its promise to "reduce the burden on the property taxpayer," and has, ins tead, increased that burden dramatically in three years of office; (

d) That the government offers no new solutions to the economic crisis faced by many Manitoba farmers after throwing the agriculture community into uncertainty by virtue of its ill-considered proposals; and (

e) That the government has abandoned the orderly financial devel opm ent of our hyd ro-elect ric resources for the benefit of all Manit obans in favour of a willful rush into an election-mo tivated development timetable. MR. SPEAKER: Is there a seconder for the motion? The Honourable Leader of the Opposition. MR. G. Fll..MON: It's moved by me and seconded by the Member for Turtle Mountain. MOTION presented. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Health. HON. L. DESJARDINS: Mr. Speaker, I would like to move, seconded by the Honourable House Leader, that debate be adjourned. MOTION presented and carried. MR.

SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Municipal Affairs. HON. A. ANSTETT: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Energy and Mines, that the House do now adjourn. MO TION presented and carried and the Hous e adjou rned and stands adjourned un til 2:00 p.m. tomorrow (Tuesday).