VOL. 2 PRELIMINARY UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEl1BLY FOR THE PERIOD: 3~00 P.M. - 6:QO P.M. THURSDAY, DECEMBER 1, 1~83. NO. 69

December 1, 1983 The House met at 3:00 P.M. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Tape 3575 apb - 1 Order, please! MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS MR. SPEAKER: The han. the President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, I have a very brief statement to make. I would like to advise the House that there will be no increase in hydro rates for 1984. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear hear! MR. MARSHALL: There will be no application by Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro Corporation in 1984 which would result in an increase in electrical rates payable by the people of this Province.

There will, of course, be a fuel escalation charge,the same as charged every Winter, because of the ~ri~~ into thermal generation and the kicking in of the power from Holyrood, but this has happened from time to time before. So I rise, Mr. Speaker, to make this brief statementand make it crystal clear, and I repeat once again, there will be no hydroelectric increases in 1984. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: Opposition. MR. NEARY: Hear, hear' The han. the Leader of the Mr.

Speaker, the han. gentleman is just parrotting what one of his bosses already announced on radio at lunch time today, that there would be no increases. The people would be anxious to hear the news . if it was decreases. Will there be any decreases? Will the company that is recording record .profits be directed to roll back their rates, Mr. Speaker? And why must there be a fuel escalation charge when the cost of fuel is decreasing, is going doWn Mr. Speaker? Perhaps the han. gentleman could explain that to us. 7825

December 1, 1.983, Page 2, Tape 3575 -- apl:i MR. MARSHALL : If that is a question the hon. gentleman wishes me to respond to, I can respond to the question he asked by saying that we have the hope and anticipation of being able to reduce electrical rates in the future as soon as our resource policies are able to take effecti and we are able to put them into effect and their ~mpact is realized throughout the Province. So if we want 7826

December 1, 1983 Tape No. 3576 SD - 1 MR. MARSHALL: reduced electrical rates, I say to the hon. gentleman,what he might consider doing is supporting us in the offshore, supporting us in our position with respect to the Upper Churchill and the many other positive moves that this government has brought forth. MR. NEARY: MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (Russelll: MR. NEARY: How silly can you getl ORAL QUESTIONS Mr. Speaker. The hon. Leader of the Opposition. Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the Government House Leader OMr.

Marshalll could tell us if the Emperor is going to be in his seat this afternoon or did he go to Gander this morning after the meeting last night? He did not have the courage to go last night. Will he be in his seat today or is he gone off to try to straighten out the mess in Gander? MR. SPEAKER: MR. MARSHALL: The hon. President of the Council. Mr. Speaker, I assume the hon. gentleman is referring to the han.

Premier because he has a habit of referring to people in pejorative terms from time to time, But I can set the hon. gentleman's heart at rest so it will not skip a few extra beats, I can say the hon, Premier wi,ll be along shortly and he is not over in Terra Nova,wh~,ch is really what I think the han, gentleman was apprehensive of wh_en he as ,ked the question, SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Hear, hear! Supplementary, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary, the hon, Leader ___ Mr : Speaker 1 the han, Premier is Newfoundland's answer to Gallup, I thought he might have -- -- - -- gone'gallu~ing1 off somewhere again today to see if the polls showed if he is in good shape today, if he is popular. 7827

December 1, 1983 Tape No. 3576 SD - 2 SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear. MR. NEARY: The fighthing Newfoundlander who did not have the courage to go to Gander last night, Mr. Speaker. MR. SIMMS: What a bunch of loons! MR. NEARY: No doubt about it, this is the looney show. Mr. Speaker, my question to the Premier has to do with a controversy that is apparently brewing in connection with what ports are suitable and what ports are not suitable to service the offshore oil rigs.

Will the Premier tell the House if ~he provincial government and the federal government, either individually or separately or jointly, did commission a study of the ports in Newfoundland to determine which ones were suitable for service offshore rigs? MR. SPEAKER (Russell}: · PREMIER PECKFORD: The hon. the Premier. As I understand it, and I stand to be corrected, there has been a study ongoing by the federal government , I think throuqh the National Harbours Board, looking at various sites or ports around Newfoundland.

I do not think we participated in that study, I think they did that by themse.lves. ~'ie have, through Oe ~'!inister of Develooment U:!r. Wim1s ·or}, been active for some time now, several years, 7828

December 1, 1983 Tape 3577 NM - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: in trying to identify appropriate sites for spinoff activity as it relates to onshore development relative to offshore. So we have been looking .at sites and have identified a number of sites around the Province, not just specifically as it relates to ports and wharfage, but in addition to that to land areas around ports and coastal sites as it relates to spinoff activity. But I think what the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) is referring to is a study that was done by the federal government through the National Harbours Board. MR.

SPEAKER (Russell) : the Opposition. MR. NEARY: The bon. Leader of Mr. Speaker, I am refe~r~~~~ remarks ~he Mavor_Qf t~e City of _St. Jofl.n_; ,s;c·~~~~ _y~ste_rd,av and today. !-lR. YOUNG: T~e future !eader. MR. NEARY: -~~ll, ~here. are so many leaders, Mr. Speaker, we have so many candidates. That is more than they can say on that side of the House. Even though the knives are out they are not sure where they are going to get a replacement. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh: MR. NEARY: They are not sure if Mr. Barry is the right one to take over or not. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please: Order, please: MR.

NEARY: But the comments of the Mayor when he stated publicly that this was a joint study done by the Province and by Ottawa to determine which ports were suitable and 1 according to his comments,the one port that 7829

December 1, 1983 Tape 3577 NM - 2 MR. NEARY: could handle all the servicing of offshore rigs is the Port of St. John's and surrounding area 1 that is the study I am referring to . Now I notice the han. gentleman was looking at the Minister of Development (Mr. Windsor) to make sure, He said, "I do not think we were involved." Is the han. gentleman sure that the Province was not involved? MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : PREMIER PECKFORD: The han. the Premier. First of all, Mr. Speaker, you know,we are not an administration that is going to respond to comments from the Mayor of St. John's.

It has not been uncharacteristic of the Mayor of St. John's to get things wrong from time to time and,you know,I do not know if he has something wrong now or not; all I know is that there was a study done by the federal government MR. NEARY: 'of the problem. PREMIER PECKFORD: No participation is part - and I think that is the one that the Mayor is referring to. All right? For the Leader of the Opposition's (Mr. Neary) benefit 1 that is the one,· as we understand it, that the Mayor of St. John's was referring to. And with all due respect to the Mayor of St.

John's or anybody else, as we have said since 1979 and even before that time,when developments do occur, if they do occur .as it relates to the offshore,we are going to have a major say in it. Now everybody far and wide 1frorn Bonavista to Vancouver Island 1had better get that straight, that this government and this administration and this Province are going to have a significant say in any developments that happen on land in this Province as it relates to offshore developments. Let them qet that ~tra~ght. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! 7830

December 1,1983 Tape No. 3578 ah-1 PREMIER PECKFORD: · It makes no difference who does studies or who does not do studies, I mean, that is one thing for sure , we are not going to stand for it otherw"ise. That is not to say that there is not a lot of valuable information that can be gathered by various federal agencies or the federal government or the municipal governments or all the rest of them, there is no question.

But I think what the Leader of the Opposition (Mr.Neary) is referring to is a study that was commissioned and carried out by the federal government and I think that is the one that the mayor was responding to. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. MR.SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR.NEARY: A supplementary, ~rr. Speaker. Would the bon. the Premier undertake to table the study that was done by the Province and would he also indicate who did - PREMIER PECKFORD: We have done that. MR.NEARY: I am not sure if it has been tabled or what. I do not think it has.

PREMIER PECKFORD: We held press conferences and all the information on the development sites has been tabled. MR.NEARY: I do not believe it was. The hon. gentleman might have released it at a press conference but I do not believe it was ever tabled in the House. Now I am subject to correction on that. But I would like to ask the hon. gentleman if he would send me along a copy if it is public information, send me along a copy and, Mr. Speaker, we will take a look at it and see what it 7831

December 1,1983 Tape No. 3578 ah-2 MR.NEARY: says. I do not recall seeing it. But let me ask the han. gentleman a supplementary. As a result of the controversy that arose a couple of da ys ago between the Mayor of Dunville,speaking for Argentia and Placentia area,and the city of St. John 's , would the han . gentleman tell the House if the Province will exempt the North side of Argentia 1and all the land bordering on municipal boundaries 1 from any municipal taxes or provincial taxes in order to attract industry to Argentia as was requested by Mr. Hogan's public statement that he made yesterday or the day before?

MR.SPEAKER (Russ ell): The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: First of all, Mr. Speaker, let me say that , I mean, I just find it absolutely incredible. This is three days in a row now that the Leader of the Opposition (Mr.Neary) just showed everybody who is within earshot of this House that he does not know what is going on in this Province. It was Health on one day that he was not aware of and what our position was on user fees.

Yesterday he said that the Province does not provide any grants to students at Mernorial 1 which was erroneous,and now today he is not familiar with all the information that the Minister of Development (Mr.Windsor) and other ministers made available to the public a year or two years ago when we assessed the sites that were nominated and that :the private sector carne in with. So it is just incredible that I have to stand up here as Pra~ier of the Province and inform the Leader of the Opposition of a whole bunch of information that has been public and known for the last year or two.

It is a waste of the House's time, Mr. Speaker. The hon. Leader of the Opposition should be asking more incisive 7832

December 1,1983 Tape No. 3578 ah-3 PREMIER PECKFORD: questions. On the question of Argentia 1is the Leader of the Opposition (Mr.Neary) aware that I have over the last year or so,as well as 7833

December 1, 1983 Tape 3579 EC - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: the Minister of Development (Mr. Windsor) and others, . and as minister responsible for Intergovernmental Affairs , had negotiations with the Canadian Ambassador to the United States and the United States Ambassador to Canada 1here in St.

John's and in Ottawa,and we have had people down to Washington to try to get the Canadian Government and the American Government to agree to release some of the land that now comes under the American lease out at Argentia so that we can have it as hot a supply base necessarily, but a supply base -fabrication centre and whatever .to service part of the offshore developments. We are still waiting for the two national governments to affect that change to allow that land to become available. I met with Mr.

Robson, the American Ambassador to Canada,here in Confederation Building several weeks ago and once again impressed upon him that the number one priority 1 from Newfoundland's point of view,in Canadian-American relationships in the immediate term was the release of that land. Mr. Robson assures me that he is moving on it down in Washington; there are _two dep~xtme:n.ts i_p,vol_y_e _d ,_ E~ternal Affair _s, or _ whatever it is called in the United States Government. MR·. - PATTERSON:-- -·· · ---- Secretary ·o£ State·; ··------ :eEEl>ii.EE .. l?.EC:K~QRI;l: __ pgq~etary of ~tat~ ~e~t, _ and the ~~t of -Def~.

The member for Placentia (Mr . Patterson) has been on "to it constantly . He has had meetings with the head of the American Forces base in Argentia on three or four occasions and has made representations to me that the manager out there, or the head of the base out there is in complete support of us. Now, once we get that land released so that you do have land available for develop- ment - and there are a number of private companies who have already applied under our process that was made 7834

December 1 1 1983 Tape 3579 EC - 2 PREMrER PECKFORD: public a year or two years ago to locate there to se~ice part of the offshore - ·once that is done, then the economics of what will make that place fly will be determined. And if, in fact, there are additional incentives needed based 1,1pon the kind of development that has been applied for, then at that time we will be only too ready to provide additional incentives.

But until we know, until we get the land released, until we know the level o.f interest - because perhaps there will be · no incentives ne .eded; I mean, we are not a government li~e the government that the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) was a part of, that be.fore you even know whether you need to put incentives in place or not, just give it away 7835

December 1, 1983 Tape No . 3580 MJ- l PREMIER PECKFORD: in place or ·not 1 just give it away, let the incentives and the concessions go~we will cautiously move. And the first thing to do is .to get the land. After we get the land,we will see the level of interest and what is available, what kind of development. Is the development a large development which will need some extra push from government? If in I fact 1it .does,and the development shows a cost benefit analysis positive to the Province,then we will provide that incentive.

Ar•d that is the way this government ·operates both as it relates to Argentia and to the Province as a whole. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) The han. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEA..~Y: Mr. Speaker, before the han. gentleman decided to answer my question he gave us a little lecture. The next thing is he will be taking us up to the Eleventh Floor,to the Conference Room and like a school teacher - he cannot forget his former profession - he will give us the lecture up there. He has to follow the programme. He is programmed like a school teacher, Mr. Speaker.

Now as far as the report is concerned, Mr. Speaker, I do not recall ever seeingit. I do not want the orchestrated version of that report, I want :-the report itself. PRE~1IER PEC!<FOF':D: It has all been made oossible. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I do not want the parts that they picked out and orchestrated, I want the full and complete report. I do not recall ever seeing it, I do not believe it was ever tabled in this House. Now, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Hogan, yesterday when he was speaking · for the Argentia area, and he 7836

December 1, 1983 Tape No. 3580 MJ - 2 MR. NEARY: made a very good job 6£ it, also asked the proV:incial government if they would help the Argentia Corporation to get access to the property required on the South side. All studies apparently that have been done suppol;'t this firm; however, we are told that the provincial government will not let the Argentia Corporation create as much as a presence in the area so that they can ,attract new industries and business to the site. They are saying they cannot get customers unless they have a presence in the area. 7837

December 1, 1983 MR. MARSHALL: order. MR . SPEAKER (Russell): Council on a point of order. MR. MARSHALL : Tape 3581 PK - 1 Mr. Speaker, on a point of Order, please! The han . President of the The hon. gentleman is in the Question P~riod on a supplementary question. He is obviously making a speech conveying to us what Mr. Hogan said yesterday, or allegedly said yesterday, and he is reading the very words that Mr. Hogan stated. So, you know, this is Question Period. It is not for him to come _in and deliver a speech prepared by somebody else. MR. SPEAKER : To that point of order, once again I must remind the han.

Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) that in asking a supplementary question it is very clear in Beauchesne an~ in the Standing Orders that there should not be a need of any

preamble whatsoever. So I would ask him to be a bit more precise with his question, please? MR. NEARY: One thing that must also be clear, Mr. Speaker, is the arrogance of this crowd. They do not want to hear any criticism at all. They cannot stand it . They are jumpy and jittery over there. SOME HON. MEMBE RS : . Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The Chair has just ruled and requested the hon. Leader of the Opposition to direct a question, and he ge ts up and proceeds to make some comments that certainly do not appear to be a question. Again I would ask him to be more direct and more precise with a question. 7838

December 1, 1983 Tape 3581 PK - 2 MR. NEARY: Well, Mr. Speaker, what I · am asking the Premier is if they will recognize the Argentia Corporation, give them access to whatever property is available down there so they can establish a presence and attract new customers to the area, attract new business and industry to the area. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : PREMIER PECKFORD: The han. the Premier. Mr. Speaker, we will do all we can,and have been doing all we can to attract business to the area , especially as it relates to offshore. But it is very much contingent upon some of the land that the Americans have a lease on.

The Minister of Development (Mr. Windsor) informs me that they are doing everything possible to accommodate the requests that are coming in from the area and from the corporation in consultation with the member for the area, the member for Placentia (Mr. Patterson). so,you know 1we are moving ahead as fast as we can and as logically and rationally as we can to help the matter. I mean, we have been on this now for two or three years, and are trying to do what we can to push the Canadian au~horities and 7839

December 1, 1983, Tape 3582, Page 1 -- apb PREMIER PECKFORD: the American authorities into an agreement and as late as November 25, which is not too long ago, there had been some discussions and communication back and forth, and meeting9 are going on over these days now on this whole question of the American sublease. But as it relates to what we do have ourselves on the North side, the Argentia Development Corporation and the Department of Development are working very closely to try to put things in place to try to move it along even taster.

But the proposals that have come in to date, which are significant and substantial, involve the land which is under the American sublease and for which we are trying to get some release to make it possible to do the kind of development that needs to be done there. But we are doing all we can and will continue to do so, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER(Russell): The hon. the member for Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the han. the Minister of the Environment and it concerns the Strange Lake mining development area in Northern Labrador.

Could the minister advise the'House if there has been any environmental impact evaluation study ongoing as it pertains to the Strange Lake mining area? MR. SPEAKER: The hen. the Minister of the Environment. MR. ANDREWS: Mr. Speaker, no, not at this point in time. We have asked the company concerned to register the project under the Environmental Assessment Act; there is very little activity at this point ih time that would, as I understand it, indicate any further action at this point in time. 7840

,, December 1, 1983, Tape 3582, Page 2 -- apb MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary to the minister. Could the minister advise the House what qompany is involved? MR. SPEAKER: the Environment. MR. ANDREWS: The hon. the Minister of The mining company involved on the Newfoundland side, I certainly do not know what is happening on the Quebec side, is the Iron Ore Company of Canada. MR. SPEAKER: Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: The hon. the member for Mr.

Speaker, a supplementary to the minister, and I would like to quote from a paragraph from the Wild Biologist employed by this Provincial Government. MR. SIMMS: Are you going to table that? MR. WARREN: I surely can table this, no problem at all.

He stated that, 'The Strange Lake area is the main migrating area for almost all the George River caribou herd and any development in this area would have a deterrant effect on the caribou population.' Again I would like to ask the minister if, although he has said he has done nothing yet, he would undertake to have an environmental review do.ne in the Strange Lake area before any further development takes place? 7841

December 1, 1983 Tape No. 3583 SD - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Russell}: The han. Minister of the Environment. MR. ANDREWS: Mr. Speaker, I would like for that informat~on to be tabled because I am not personally familiar with it. There are a lot of biologists who have probably worked with the provincial government or maybe that is federal government. But at this point in time, as I indicated ,the amount of work being done now is exploration.

There is mining exploration being done all over the Province and all over North America, and to ask every one of these exploration activities to 'come under the full Environmental Assessment Act, that there be an environmental impact statement done 1 I think would be a little be outrageous, because they vary from a fellow going around with a little pick chipping at rocks to what you could call a major exploration project such as is in Strange Lake. But even if it is major,at this point in time the amount of activity is very limited to a very small area.

The air­ strip that is established there is in the Province of Quebec, of course, which we have no control over 1 although I am sure the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth (_!.1r. Simmsl might speak to some of the discussions that are ongoing with the Province of Quebec regarding the George River caribou herd. My big concern 1 regarding Strange La~ from the environmental point of view 1would be what activities they would require if and when they do discover that there is a viable econom1'c res ·erve of ore there.

And that would be in the order of h.ow they would extract the ore , how they would trans .oort it from the a.rea, whether by· highway or railway and so on .... g.nd in tha:t case, most certainly, more environmental studies would be needed. Whether a full environmental impact statement would be required would still remain to be seen. 7842

December 1, 1983 MR . WARREN: MR. SPEAKER (Russell): Mountains. MR. WARREN: Tape No. 3583 SD - 2 Mr. Speaker. The hoh. member for Torngat Mr. Speaker, a supplementary to the han. Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth (Mr, Simms},as he is;; responsible for the Wildlife Division. Could the minister advise if there is any monitoring of the caribou herd? MR. ANDREWS : MR. SPEAKER: Minister of the Environment. MR. ANDREWS : A point of order, ~1r. Speaker. Order, please! A point of order, the han. I would ask the member for Torngat Mountains (Mr. Wa!rren) to table that document. MR.·.

NEARY: When he is finished with it he will table it. MR. S.PEAKER: Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: To that point of order, Mr. Speaker. To that point of order, the han. Mr. Speaker, han. members will recall that there is a recent precedent in this House for tabling documents,and we saw that with the provincial Minister of Fisheries Q1r. Morgan1 1 that the member can table the document in due course. He can 7843

December 1, 1983 Tape 3584 EC - 1 MR. NEARY: take several days or several weeks, apparently he can table it at his own leisure. My han. colleague indicated he would table the document and,according to that precedent, the ruling of Your Honour a couple of weeks ago, the document will be tabled when my han. friend sees fit to table it. MR. HICKEY: To that point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The han. the Minister of Social Services,to that point of order. MR. HICKEY: Mr.

Speaker, just last session I attempted to quote two lines from The Evening Telegram, a clipping I had, and the han. the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) got up and held up the whole process, demanded that I table it and, of course, as a consequence, I could not continue with my quote. The rules apply to both sides of the House. The hon. gentleman should table the document right now or stop quoting from it. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! The Chair has heard enough debate on this point of order. The han. the Minister of Environment (Mr.

Andrews) previously did ask the han. the member for Torngat Mountains (Mr. Warren) if he would table that document and I think that I did hear the han. member say that he was prepared to, and would, table it. If he needs it for some more notes to ask further questions, he would probably be prepared to table it after he is through with it. The han. the member for ·Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will table it in due course. 7844

December 1, 1983 Tape 3584 EC - 2 MR. WARREN: My supplementary question is to the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth, who is responsible for wildlife. Could the minister advise this House if there has been any monitoring of migratory disturbances to the caribou caused by exploration activi­ ties? Has his department done any monitoring on the effect of exploration activity on migration of the caribou herd in the Strange Lake area? MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hen. the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth. MR. SIMMS: _ Mr. Speaker, I thank the han. member for the question.

I might take the opportunity to inform the House that we have had ongoing discussions with the Government of Quebec. Personally, I have met with the minister responsible for wildlife there on three occasions to try to put together some sort of ' a joint management plan with respect to the George River caribou herd. One of those activities will be to monitor the herd,to do an appropriate census of the herd and to do the other kinds of scientific analyses that are required, because,unfortunately, up to now that herd has not really had the kind . 7845

December 1, 1983 Tape No. 3585 MJ - l MR. SIMMS: of .management that it requires and deserves. I am pleased to say also that we have had a tremendous amount of progress in those d~scussions that I referred to,and in fact I am anticipating having a further meeting with the minister from Quebec, Mr. Chevrette, sometime within the next couple of weeks to discuss to discuss these sorts of things. But there are some activities going on with respect to our own biologists in that particular · area at the present tirre. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, a supplemental:¥ to the minister. ~~.

SPEAKER (Russell) : The han. the member for Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, I understand during the past Summer the minister's department has been quite active and aircraft are going in and out of the Strange Lake area. In fact,I think they have built some kind of a cabin or cabins in the area,which in itself is going to have an affect,according to his biologist, : on the caribou herd. May I suggest to the minister and this government, would he consider not waiting for Quebec?

If Strange Lake is in the Province of New~oundland and Labrador, which it is, why do we have to wait for Quebec in order to act? Why does the minister not take it upon himself and set up a monitoring system on the migration of the caribou--herd and see what effect any proposed mine in the Strange Lake area would have on the population of the caribou? MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth • . MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker, I am not sure what the hon. member saying. First he said he wanted to suggest something to us,but he never did suggest anything, he asked then if we would do something.

There is monitoring ongoing now 7846

December 1, 1983 Tape No. 3585 MJ- 2 MR.· · STHMS!: by bioJ:ogists working for this government, and there is monitoring going on by biologists G>n the other side of the border, in the Province of Quebec. MR. WARREN; Your o\-m biologists say no. MR. SIMMS: Well, I am not familiar with the document the member is quoting from so he obviously should table it. SOME" HON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER (RUssell) : MR. SIMMS: Oh, oh l Order, please! Order, please! In any event ., Mr.

Speaker, on .e of the reasons why a joint management activity is necessary is because,as the hon. member knows,that herd spends half its time in Quebec and the other half in Labrador. So obviously there needs to be - MR. YOUNG; The herd is bilingual. MR. SIMMS: Yes. Actually they are Newfoundland caribou 1 because they are born in Newfoundland,and they go over to Quebec in the Fall and just take a few weeks over there to get away on a holiday. In any event,Ehat'is why-it is important I think to have a joint management programme.

It has been upder discussion for about six years and I think finally we are making some progress in that area. 7847

December 1, 1983 MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: Tape 3586 PK - 1 The hon. member for A final supplementary, Mr. Speaker, to the Minister of Environment (Mr. Andrews). Since the minister responsible for wildlife said there is some ongoing monitoring, would the minister advise the House if it is his intention of having an environmental impact study done before any further development takes place jn the Strange Lake area? MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The han. Minister of the Environment. MR. ANDREWS : Mr.

Speaker, at this point in time no, because the amount of activity that is taking place there is very minimal at this point in time. But as I indicated to the hon. member before, Mr. Speaker, if the activity increases,and if we have indication from the monitoring that is already ong~ing now from the provincial wildlife officials and any other sources with sound information,! will review the process again. But at this point in time,now,I do not see the necessity of it. It is just another mining exploration activity , which incidentally falls under the Department of Mines and Energy for regulations.

But from an environmental point of view, of course,we are· concerned. The main environmental concern,as indicated by the member,is the caribou population, but r also indicated that this is a very small dot in the whole wilderness of Northern Quebec and Labrador. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The han. Leader of the Opposition. ·MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, this is another example,of course,of urban thinking; they cannot realistically 7848

J December 1, 1983 Tape 3586 PK - 2 MR. NEARY: visualize the rural areas and what i.s happening. Let me ask the Minister of Mines and Energy (Mr. oawe) i.f - MR. WARREN: He is not here. MR. NEARY: No, he is not here. Who is the Mini.ster of Mines and Energy now? MR. 'i'lARREN: Ron Dawe. :. . . .~ MR. AN01mWS : He is in Labrador. MR. NEARY: Well, let ne ask the Premier in the absence of the Minister of Mines and Energy, what i,s happening regarding Strange Lake? Has the boundary yet been defined? Because we saw in a statement made by the Mihister of Finance (Dr. Collins) some time ago that the.re was money allocated to survey the bounda:r;y. __ 7849

December 1, 1983 Tape 3587 NM - 1 MR. NEARY: Is there any dispute qver Strange Lake; Is this the reason the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth (Mr. Simms) has to go and talk to Queb~c? Is there any . dispute over where that mine, if it is developed, will be located 1 in Newfoundland and Labrador or in Quebec? And is the hon. gentleman aware that they have a temporary landing strip there and that there is activity going on on the Quebec side that could interfere with the movement of the caribou that my hon. colleague is concerned about? MR. WARREN: They are even landing in Labrador. MR.

SPEAKER (Russell) : The han. the Premier. PREMI ER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, we are completely and absolutely up-to-date .as it relates to the Strange Lake activity. A number of departments, including the ministers of Forest Resources and Lands (Mr. Power), Culture, Recreation and Youth (Mr. Simms), Environment (Mr. Andrews), and so on, has been constantly monitoring the situation as it relates to the Strange Lake exploration activity. And they have spent a fair amount of time and money in the Labrador area during this past season and right up until a few weeks ago. So we are completely up-to- date.

We had last week, I think it was last week, a complete update report in writing from the company on what is taking place in the way of exploration from the company's point of view. And as · the Minister of the Environment has so clearly pointed out to the han. the member for Torngat Mountains, first of all they are assessing to see whether there is a significant amount of ore there to make an application for a development lease . Up to now they have not done it and that is why the environmental assessment process has not kicked in, because there is only exploration activity. And the han. member 7850

December 1, 1983 Tape 3587 NM- 2 PREMIER PECKFORD: for Torngat Mountains (Mr. Warren) 1 with all due respect to him and his concern, I mean 1 is inflating and exaggerating the situation there. It is exploration and every year in Labrador, all over Labrador and the Island, there are exploration companies doing exploration work. And the potential does exist, but it is as you get into development that obviously additional environmental and wildlife assessments are going to have to be done independent of the company. There is no question about it but at the present moment that is not the case. MR.

WARREN: Traffic going in and out now. PRFMIER PECKFORD: There are people going in and out of Labrador for mining exploration every year since I can remember, since I got involved .in politics. MR. NEARY: But this is on the Quebec side they are going in. PREMIER PECKFORD: Lots of them. It was happening at Kitts-Michelin years ago. It has been happening all over Labrador, both federal government people, provincial government people and private company people who have got exploration licences.

So you have to determine,first of all, whether in fact there is sufficient ore deposits there to warrant a development and 1if ~hey so decide 7851

December 1, 1983, Tape 3588, Page 1 -- apb PREMIER PECKFORD: and then make application, then obviously the full we±ght of environmental law, and the full weight of environmental assessment must be brought to bear on them as it was , Mr. Speaker, in the Kitts­ Michelin development,which we turned down, which this government turned down. Talking about urban thinking, it was this government who said to BRINCO you cannot go ahead with the Kitts-Michelin uranium development because you have not been able to prove to us that you are able to take care of the waste coming out of that uranium development.

Contrary to that, Mr. Speaker, it is.interesting to note that the socialist government of Saskatchewan has gone ahead in Northern Saskatchewan with massive development of uranium mines, massive, very, very massive uranium m-ining developments. MR. WARREN: That is all cancelled. PREMIER PECKFORD: It is not all cancelled. There are mines in operation. The hon. the member for Torngat Mountains(Mr. Warren) does not know what he is talking about. There are two or three of the largest uranium mines in the world now operating in Northern Saskatchewan.

It is only in Australia now where they have discovered larger quantities of uranium, potential quantities of uranium. So we are on top of the situation as it relates to Strange Lake. There is a boundary question there. The discovery of the ores that have been discovered to date are near enough to the two Provinces to cause some problem and so it has yet to be determined because no boundary has every been placed on the ground, it has been done on high land and the way water flows and all the rest of it. So we have spent considerable time, and effort, and money in the various departments 7852

December 1, 1983, Tape 3588, Page 2 -- apb PREMIER PECKPORD: monitoring the situation and, of course, someday, if there is an economic development to occu.t there,determination of where the boundary actually stands will have to be made on the land . So that is where the situation stands. MR. NEARY: In the meantime , the exploration is going ahead on the Quebec side. PREMIER PECKFORD: There is exploration going ahead in an area which nobody is sure for certain is a l l in Newfoundland or partly in Quebec. So they are saying part of it is in Quebec and th~re has been exploration going on ther e for years .

So there is exploration going on in what is unquestionably Newfoundland soil, and there is exploration going on on what is questionably somebody ' s soi l. 7853

December 1, 1983 Tape No. 3589 SD - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: So, I mean, that is the story. They have a legitimate exploration lease and that is what is happening. We are informed,from what we can gather from our mines people who have been monitoring the situation 1 that there are significant amounts of valuable ore in Newfoundland. You know, more exploration is going to have to be done, more assessment during the Winter on what they have done so far to determine just whether the deposits are economic or not.

And there is a boundary question that will have to be solved as it relates to it,because it will be an area, it looks like, that may be under dispute. - MR. NEARY: Will they have to get a permit then from both provinces? PREMIER PECKFORD: Oh, obviously. In an area where they are not sure whether it is in Newfoundland and Labrador or Quebec 1 they would have to get a permit from the other government 1 too. I would imagine they would. But there is a question of the boundary and our peopl~ have been working very hard on it to determine where, in our view, the boundary does · lie.

But there is a large area of land where exploration has occurred and discoveries have occurred that demonstrate that there is significant quantities of this ore in legitimate Newfoundland territor y, you know ·, so that is where it stands right now. But we are completely on top of it and we have had our people up on the land, walking on the land, inspecting the land, seeing what is going on and all the rest of it. MR. NEARY: Another rov1! HR. SPEAKER (Russell): Order, please! PREMIER PECKFORD : I mean, the Minister of Forest Resources and Lands (Mr.

Powerl and the Minister of Rural, Agricultural and Northern Development (Mr. Goudie) can answer the questions, 7854

December 1, 1983 Tape No. 3589 SD - 2 MR. NAR..'U:N: They have not been up there. MR. SPEAKER (Russelll: Order, please! PREMIER PECKFORD: Where you up there? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! PREMI"ER PECKFORD: We have two cabins that we built up there this Summer. YIR, SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. NEARY: All the activity is in ~uebec so far. PRE!.UER PECKFORD: No! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! Time for the Question Period has expired. I would like to welcome to the galleries a delegation from the community of Jean de Baie, the Mayor, Mr.

Bill Coady 1 and Councillors Peter Coady and Martin Hammond. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear. NOTICES OF MOTION MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Social Services. MR. lUCKEY: f.ir, Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow· ask leave to introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act". MR. SPEAKER: The han. Minister of Health. MR. HOUSE: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend Th.e Newfoundland Medical Care Insurance Act" • MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth.. MR. SIMMS: Mr.

Speak .er, I give notice th.a t I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The Wilderness And Ecological Reserves Act, G.~o. 21.", 7855

December 1, 1983 Tape No. 3589 SD - 3 ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS FOR WHICH NOTICE HAS BEEN GIVEN MR. SPEAKER (RUsselll: MS. VERGE: The han. Minister of Education. Mr. Spe~ker, I wish to give answers to questions posed yesterday by the han. member for Torngat Mountains · (Mr, Warreni about the provincial student aid programme,specifically the number of post-secondary education students who have received provincial government grants so far this academic year, the amounts of gran ,ts and the s-ame information for last year. I am pleased to report, Mr.

Speaker, that so far in this academic year, that is from September 1, 1983, until today 1 December 1, 1983 , which is just three months, one-quarter of a calendar year, 3,860 students have received grants. The total amount of grants is $5,545,957. Mr. Speaker, for last year 1 September 1, 1982 to Augush 31, 1983, twelve months, 7,071 students received grants. The total amount received was $12,666,664. SOME ,HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear. MS. VERGE: And, Mr. Speaker, the year before that the 1981/82 academic year, 4,254 students received grants. The total amount received was $6,729,137. Mr. Speaker, 7856

December 1,1983 Tape No. 3590 ah-1 MS.VERGE: it is significant to note that so far in this academic year 1even without any high school graduates coming directly into post-secondary institutions because of the start of Grade Xll,an unprecedented number of Newfoundland and Labrador students have received a record high amount of grants. In fact,the numbers are almost as great for one quarter of this year as they were for twelve months two years ago, Mr.

Speaker, I want to underline the fact that all of this money comes from the provincial government, all of the . outright grants,which do not have to be repaid 1contained in the .student Aid plan come from the provincial government. The federal government provides only loans to the Canada Student Loan programme. SOME HON.MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. HISCOCK: A point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR.SPEAKER (RUssell): Is the han. member rising on a point of order? MR. HISCOCK: Yes. MR. SPEAKER: Continue. MR.HISCOCK: The point of order is that the question was asked by the member for Eagle River (Mr.

Hiscock) and not from Torngat Mountains(Mr.Warren). The other question with regard to that, the question I asked the Minister of Education (Ms. Verge) was if she could ___ gi y~ the breakdown of September to December 1982 and September to December 1983 and we will see there is a decline there. The minister ended up giving September 1982 to the end of 1983, the full year. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! That is not a valid point of order as raised by the han. member for Eagle River. 7857

December 1,1983 Tape No. 3590 ah-2 MR.SPEAKER (Russell): · Are there any other answers to guestions for which notice has been given? The han. Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth. MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker, I wish to give a couple of verbal answers to questions asked by the han. member for Torpgat Mountains (Mr.

Warren), I believe it was, .. relatil).g to the 400th Anniversary Celebrations recently 1 Question No. 155. l1y department did not provide funding to events like the Bakeapple Festival - perhaps it might be directed t:.o my colleague the Minister of Development (Mr.Windsor)- and therefore no application was received from the Bakeapple Festival by the 400th Anniversary Committee, by the way. Hy department does not provide funding to such festivals. Question No. 154; the cost of the state banquet for the Prince and Princess of Wales was $33,301.46.

The people who attended the state banquet were drawn from the provincial protocol list that exists in the Province, as exists in other provinces, and is used Ear all such functions and covers all levels, federal, provincial and municipal. I might add in passing there were such notable Newfoundlanders as former Premier J.R. Smallwood, the federal minister then, Mr. Rompkey, the Leader of the Opposition (Mr.Neary) and many of the members opposite, the ~er ~~r Torngat Mountains (Mr.

Warren) himself, _E: JolL."l A. __ ~_c:.rnum was there, a number of senators were there from the Liberal party, so it obvious . was not a PC cocktail party as often we are accused of holding. SOME HON.MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! 7858

December 1,1983 Tape No. 3590 ah-3 MR.SIMMS: And, Mr. Speaker, with respect to the other question the hon. member asked 1 I will table it because it was a lengthy question and I do not want to take the t~me of the House when I can simply table it - it is Question No. 153 - also with respect to the Anniversary -- ----- ----- Celebrations. MR.SPEAKER (Russell): River. MR.HISCOCK: PRESENTING PETITIONS The hon.member for Eagle Mr. Speaker, I rise to present a petition on behalf of the community of Norman Bay, Labrador,in Eastern Labrador.

Since I have been elected in 1979 1 I am after presenting at least three or four petitions on this as well as numerous letters to the Minister of Energy (Mr .• Dawe) and also to Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro. The prayer of the petition, Mr. Speaker, states: 'We,the undersigned residents of Norman Bay in the electoral district of Eagle River, Labrador,petition the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador: We request that the government take necessary action to have Newfoundland Hydro provide electrical service for our community.

We are only one of two communities in South- - eastern Labrador which does not have a "community generator. At present we ~~ve fourteen potential hook-ups,including houses, school and sheds. Small generators for individual householders had to be used by some homes in the past ., but they are in_need.of constant maintenance and unsatisfactory for providing electricity on a regular basis. Life in Norman Bay is very difficult by the absence of electricity.

For example, construction is very slow without power tools, laundry for a normal size family for a week requires a full day of using the scrub-board each week,and paperwork is difficult by kerosene lamp light.' 7859

December 1, 1983 Tape 3591 EC - 1 MR. HISCOCK: I might add that school children have sometimes to study by this when they go home at night. 'The major concern, however, is the lack of refrigeration for food. All our food must be shipped in bulk, as the nearest retail outlet, Charlottetown, is fifty kilometers away and is often inaccessible to us, particularly this time of year and in the Spring. Fresh food shipped in in the Fall must be consumed soon after it arrives or it is lost th~ough spoilage. ~e i~ danger _to health from the conaumption of goods not properly refrigerated, which is a serious concern.

During the period when we cannot reach Charlottetown by boat or Ski-doo, our diet is limited to salt foods or those not needing refrigeration. Furthermore, we are unable to bring frozen food here except for a few months during mid-Winter from Charlottetown. As well, we are not able to freeze food to store for later use. Fish cannot be frozen for Winter, thus we solely rely on salting methods for preserving our Winter fish. 'It has come to our attention that Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro has been expanding and upgrading its facility in the Province and yet, we are without a community generator.

Perhaps one of the phase generators from the Island should be relocated to Norman Bay. At present, when electrical services are very basic to daily life, we feel that we are entitled to this service. Thus, we petition our government to take the necessary steps to provide this ~ervice.' ~ And I wrote the Minister of Energy (t1r. Mar~hall), as well as the Chairman of Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro,that last year there were numerous communities on the Northern Peninsula that were taken off diesel and put into the 7860

December 1, 1983 Tape 3591 EC - 2 MR. HISCOCK: electrical power grid. I wrote and asked if it would be possible to have some of these generators relocated to the district of Eagle River ~n the communities of Norman Bay and Pinsent Arm. Members of this government 1 including the Presiden~ of the Council (Mr. Marshall), who is also the Minister of Energy, get up time after time in this House to say what a bad deal the Liberals did on the Upper Churchill and saying we were sold out and talking about al1 the things that could be done in our Province if we had the profits from the Upper Churchill. Well, I say, Mr.

Speaker, if it were not for the people in Eastern Labrador, particularly Norman Bay and Pinsent Arm, then we would never be able to lay a claim to Labrador by right of settlement. It was brought up in Question Period today about Strange Lake. If it were not for these people, we would not even have a boundary question because there would be no Labrador as far as our Province is concerned. As I :1ave said, Mr. Speaker, time and time again, this administration is neglectful of their responsibility to the residents of Coastal Labrador. A lot has been done, but these are basic things they need.

They need school facilities and they need T.V. ahd other basics. And what we have are conditions that hc3.z::k back to the eighteenth century. And I, for one, Mr. Speaker, have been very consistent in trying to present this to the House, to the corporation and yet it falls on deaf ears. I cannot understand why this government cannot take some of the generators no longer in use now on the Northern Peninsula - it is not as if they have to go out and buy more - take these 7861

December 1, 1983 Tape 3591 EC - 3 MR. HISCOCK: used generators from the Northern Peninsula. And there were about twelve commpnities connected, so therefore, there would be about twelve generators no longer in use. And I would say that the Power Corporation will probably end up selling them at a profit to go into their general revenue.

I would hope that the Premier, who says that he has compassion for the people of Labrador and claims to be the champion of rural Newfoundland will assist_here so that I will not have to go back to the people of Norman Bay ai).d Pinsent Arm and say here is another petition that will have to . wait until next year or wait for a Liberal Government to give them power. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. 7862

_.,_ ... December 1, 1983 MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Opposition. MR. NEARY: Tape 3592 PK - 1 The hon. Leader of the Mr. Speaker, I was hoping somebody on the other side would rise, but obviously, but they are too ashamed to get up - MR. SIMMS: We still can. MR. NEARY: They can, but I was hoping they would get up before I spoke in support of the petition and express the views of the administration on this very serious problem that exists in Norman Bay, Mr. Speaker.

Who would think in 1983 1~n this modern age of technology when we take so much for granted, when hon. gentlemen there opposite are building an extension to Confederation Building and providing us with our third House of Assembly since Confederation, giving themselves rent free apartments for the first time in the history of this Province, Mr. Speaker, who would think that my hon. colleague would have to stand in his place in this House and describe conditions that you only read abant in the Dark Ages, Mr. Speaker? MR. TOBIN: Rowe said about you? MR. SPEAKER MR. NEARY: serious matter indeed. AN HON. MEMBER: : MR.

SPEAKER: MR. · NEARY: Did you hear what Bill Order, please! Mr. Speaker, this is a very Oh, oh! Order, please! Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I did not want to draw to your attention the ignorance of the bon. member for Burin-Placentia West (Mr. T.obin) , I am glad Your Honour noticed it himself. But, Mr. Speaker, we are doing our best to try to raise these matters and bring them to the attention of the various ministers. The one yesterday 7863

December 1, 1983 Tape 3592 PK -2 MR. NEARY: about Hopedale and the one today about Norman Bay,where they do not even have a generator, Mr. Speaker, I think it is shocking, shocking in this day and age1 and I would like to know what the administration are going to do about it. This is another example,by the way, of how this administration are treating rural Newfoundland.

All their plans and policies are directed towards the urban centres and they are ignoring rural Newfoundland, our way of life, our tradition and our culture in this Province ~ and the rural areas ara being downgraded and destroyed by this administration. They canhot see beyond the St. John's Overpass, Mr. Speaker, and the reason for·it is that out of eighteen Cabinet ministers six of them represent St. John's districts and,of course1they have a greater impact and a greater influence on the Cabinet than any other part of Newfoundland. One street in St.

John's has more power and more authority than the great Northern Peninsula, than the whole of Labrador, Mr. Speaker. SOMEl HON. MEMBERS: ,oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Of course, the hon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) in speaking in support of the petition is permitted five minutes·, but I think he should confine his remarks to the prayer and the co.ntents of the petition presented by his hon. colleague. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, one street in downtown St. John's has more authority, more power than the whole of Labrador.

And I think. it is shameful the way that this administration are treating ~ural Newfoundland arid Labrador, I include Labrador, Mr. Speaker, and - MR. WARREN: MR. NEARY: MR. WARREN: 7864 All he wants is recognition. Pardon? All he wants is recognition.

December 1, 1983 Tape 3592 PK - 3 MR. NEARY: Yes, that is right. All the people are asking for, all they are asking for, Mr. Speaker, listen to this, they CU"e asking for a generator so they can generate electricity. And when we hear hon. members there opposite get up and talk about their grandiose schemeS: 1 let them think about the people in Norman Bay and Pinsent's Arm who . do not have electricity in their homes. MR. WARREN: in electrical rates, he said. MR. NEARY: No incireases this year No,incEease this year. He gloa~ed about that thi~ afterno9n.

Here you have Labradorians, Newfoundlanders down there with no electricity while they are carrying out their grandiose schemes over there, their private dining rooms, their ren ·t-free apartments ., a third House o~ Assembly since Confederation, Mr. Speaker. I support the prayer . of the petition · ·and I know I am going to get a rise out of the 7865

December 1, 1983 Tape No. 3593 MJ - 1 MR. NEARY: Government House Leader (Mr. Marshall). I can see him over there now looking at me with daggers. No doubt he will get up now and he will squirt his usual poison across the floor of the House, he will rant and rave about the former Liberal administration and Mr. Smallwood and the Upper Churchill,and he will give us a show,as he usually does,of his partisan politics. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Order, please! Order, please! The time for the hon. the Leader of the Opposition has expired. MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the President of the Council. MR.

MARSHli...LL: Mr. Speaker, I would like to try to respond sensibly to the petition as opposed to the way the hen. gentleman, the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary), responded to it a few moments ago •. No one denies the needs of the people of Norman Ba~ and :oinsent' s Arir .• Certainly it is a very real need and the petition ,.,hich has been presented, will be taken and it will be considered by Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro and, as in every other instance, we will do our best to see what we can do to service the needs.

But as the hen. gentleman must realize, all of these desires and all of these very legitimate needs, as legitimate as they may be, depend upon money. We have to be able to afford to provide the services in order to do them. Now I hope the hen. gentleman,when he is talking and conveying this to his constituents, uill tell theP.t that the government is in s~~pathy with them and tell them that the government is doing everything it possibly can and will do so in the future. I hope he will also tell them, Mr. Speaker, that they are denied the services they seek because this very 7866

December 1, 1983 Tape No. 3593 MJ - 2 MR. MARSHALL: electricity which they are now seekin~or the wherewithal to provide it,was given away to the Province of Quebec by the han. gentleman and their colleagues in years gone by. I hope he will explain to them, Mr. - MR. HISCOCK: MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : River on a point of order. MR. HISCOCK: Mr. Speaker, a point of order. Order, pleasel The han. the member for Eagle Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Energy, the Government House Leader and the Pres±dent of the Council (Mr. Marshall) said that the ·hydro of Labrador was given away by myself and my colleagues present.

I would like to point out that I nor anybody in the House on the Liberal side were present when this contract was :signed.and when it was signed it was passed unanimously by both sides of the House. The people of Norman Bay and Pinsent's Arm. do not want to get involved in what happened in the past. They are asking one thing only and that is ·:to :- the Minister of Energy who is now speaking: Are they going to get a generator - they are even asking for a used generator - are they going ·to get a generator or they not going to get a generator? They do not want political talks. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

To that point of order, the han. the member for Eagle Piver (~x. Hiscock) has not raised a valid point of order but has'used the occasion to again repeat his question and try to clarify some points that he already had made during the presentation of his original petition. The hon. the President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, you know,the han. 7867

December 1, 1983 Tape No. 3593 MJ - 3 MR. MARSHALL: gentleman knows full well there is-line of relationship between them. As a matter of fac~ ·the han. gentleman would not be elected today if it were not for the fact that the same type of impression of the han. gentleman,that they are voting Liberal in those areas,because of their great reverence for the previous, previous leader, Mr. Smallwood. I mean,there are still a few gentlemen of the other side who have been elected on the coattails of the previous, previous premier. But the fact of the matter is, Mr.

Speaker, the han. gentleman should appreciate - and I hope he will tell his constituents to appreciate the fact - that there is in fact 1 ironically, some $600 million a year now flowing yearly into the Province of Quebec while this poor Province only realizes some $8 million to $10 million from it 1and if we only had a fraction of that we would be able to attend to these needs and to other needs. So I hope the han. gentleman, when · he responds to these people,will tell his constituents how concerned this government is, as it is, it wishes it had the money - MR. HISCOCK: MR.

SPEAKER (Russell): River on a point of order. A point of order, Mr. Speaker. Order, please! The han. the member for Eagle MR. HISCOCK: Is the Minister of Energy (Mr. Marshall) sayi~g that the people of Norman Bay and Pinsent's Arm will only get power when the Upper Churchill contract is straightened out? Is that what he is saying. MR. SPEAKER: Order, pleasel Once again I have to rule that the han. the member for Eagle River (Mr. Hiscock) has not raised a valid point of order. The han. the President of the Council. 786B

December 1, 1983 Tape No . 3593 MJ- 4 MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman is . just getting up on points of order to use up my time and I am. not going·.:to enter in:to tha,t with him· But the fact of the matter ~s instead of passing along little statements like he maae about the govermnent taking the genera~ors and selling them and putting it into the monies and the coffers of the Province so that he can go back and he~: .can tel,.l his constituents that this is what the 7869

December 1, 1983 MR. MARSHALL: government is doinq, Tape 3594 NM- 1 it does not care about the people from Norman Bay and Pinsent's Arm, but the fact of the matter is th~t we are very concerned about it and we will respond to the petition to the best of the limits of the government and the resources of the people of this Province. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. member for Burin-Placentia West. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. TOBIN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a petition to present on behalf of 218 people, I believe, from the Burin area.

The prayer of the petition is, "We, the undersigned, request your assistance in obtaining a Winter works programme for the upgrading of the existing wood road leading to Piccos Pond, Big Salmonier, Burin, in the district of Burin-Placentia West. This will enable the local people to have access to the area for cutting fire­ wood. The programme would also create jobs for many of the local residents who are now unemployed." Now, Mr. Speaker, I guess the prayer of the petition is somewhat twofold. It is a request to have a road opened whereby people would have access to wood.

The people of Burin, like many other people in many of the rural parts of Newfoundland 1 are reverting back to wood furnaces and need a wood supply and that would certainly permit them access to this forest for that purpose. And also part of their petition clearly states that the programme will create jobs for many of the local people who are now unemployed. And it refers to, Mr. Speaker, a Winter works programme. So I am not sure why they presented that petition to me to present. 7670

December 1, 1983 Tape 3594 NM- 2 MR. TOBIN: I would imagine it was for tpe simple reason that they wanted action on the petition. If it~ presented in other quarters,where Winter works programmes ar~ a responsiblit~ I am not sure that people would know too much about it. In any case, Mr.

Speaker, the people of the Burin area certainly have every reason to request a forest access road, or the upgrading of roads, Last year I know there were a couple of new roads built on the Burin Peninsula, one in my district, Burin-Placentia West, and one in my colleague's district, Grand Bank, which have served the people rather well and with tremendous benefits to them for access to~forests,and I am sure that the Minister of Forest Resources and Lands (Mr. Power) will give this petition every consideration and see what we can get done to serve the needs of the people there. So, Mr.

Speaker, I lay this petition upon the Table. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The han. member for Eagle River. MR. HISCOCK: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I hope the member for Burin-Placentia West (Mr. Tobin) realizes that when he was presenting a petition nobody on this side was interrupting him like happened when people were presenting a petition on this sideand that we at least deserve the same courtesy. But, Mr. Speaker, I support this petition that they need a woods road.

More people in rural Newfoundland are depending on wood and the reason why they are depending on wood is because the economy is falling down around our ears and everybody is finding out that we cannot have necessary jobs, that food is going up, electricity is going up, and people have to revert back to a way of life that 7871

December 1, 1983 Tape 3594 NM - 3 MR. HISCOCK: we would have thought we would have gotten rid of twenty or thirty years ago. But with regard to this petition, a m~ke-work project, I would assume that it would have been referred to the Canada Works or Ottawa. But in the meantime,this administration itself has said that this is the type of work that you end up building graveyards and fences ..

I have heard it from the member himself saying that we should do away with these types of make-work projects and I find it rather ironic that here he is in the House now presenting a petition'and I am wondering if he is not 1 in the old phrase, talking from both sides of his mouth. But the petition is extremely 'serious, It illustrates rural Newfoundland., It points out, Mr. Speaker, that the people in rural Newfoundland have a way of life that is extremely important and rely on the environment. And I think it is long overdue that the Minister of Forest Resources and Lands (Mr.

Power),and I wrote to him with regard to the Port Hope Simpson woods road, to have that upgraded, and I hope that the Minister of Forest Resources and Lands will take this under consideration, And I will be monitoring to see if he ends up doing the one in Burin and not the one down in Port Hope Simpson. '· 7872

December 1, 1984, Tape 3595, Page 1 -- apb MR. HISCOCK: I think that this government should have a project for this. I think in many areas of our Province our forestry is under pressure and that if we do not have good_management with regard to wood cutting we are going to find ourselves in danger of having a limited wood supply. It was mentioned before and I think this Province and this country can take Germany's reforestation project as an example. The petition that was presented is extremely se~ious.

With regard to the petition I presented from rural Labrador, we found out that we have two communities that do not have electricity. Now we find that we have a place in Burin - Placentia West which, because of economic conditions, has to go back to burning wood for heating their homes. As I sa.id, Mr. Speaker, we never would have thought ten or fifteen years ago that wood would become so important. I do not think it is good enough for the Minister of Forest Resources and Lands (Mr. Power) to get up and say it is a federal responsibility, these make-work projects.

I think this government has to come up with make-work projects, we have to come up with ways to open up our woods roads not only for fire~TOOd, as I think the people in Burin would agree, but for house building and for boat building and for cabinet making and for other things. But the important . thing. is we need these roads opened up to our woodlands not only for Bowater and Abitibi-Pric·e but we. need our woods roads opened up for the people of the Province so that they can,at least in these hard economic times, use our resources. 7873

December L, 1983, Tape 3595, Page 2 -- apb MR. HIS COC K: There is not much we can do; the people in Pinsent Arm cannot even freeze their fish. All the people in Burin are asking for is wood so they can heat their homes. At least the government cannot take our basic resources from the people in rural Newfoundland and Labrador such as berries, fish, wood and agricultural land. I know they are bringing in enough regulations, making it harder all the time for our people. But now when anything happens,as has ha~pened in Burin with regard to the fish plant, and as happened in St.

Lawrence, we find that these rural areas of our -Province have to revert to a way of life that was prevalent prior to Confederation, and in the dirty thirties, and in the 18th Century. Thank you, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER(Russell): The han. the Minister of Forest Resources and Lands. MR. POWER: Mr. Speaker, it is with pleasure that I rise to support the petition so ably presented by the hen. the member for Burin - Placentia West(Mr. Tobin).

I certainly do not wish to digress from the topic of the petition 1which is a woods road, but I do want to take some exception to the remark just made by the member for Eagle River(Mr. Hiscock~ who makes such comments as the fact that we have destroyed the rural way of life, or we have destroyed the concept of people living in the rural parts of the Province. I venture to bet, Mr.

Speaker, and I saw a report just yesterday or the day before that showed that the average income in rural Newfoundland has risen something like 160-odd per cent from 1972 to 1983, that this government has done everything in its power since 7874

December 1, 1983, Tape 3595, Page 3 -- apb MR. POWER: 1972 to repestablish rural Newfoundland, a rural Newfoundland and a concept of rural Newfoundland that was almost destroyed by an administration in this Province which thought that you had to burn your boats, which thought you had to industralize, which thought that that was the only way to get away from cutting wood, away from fishing, away from farming - get out and get industrialized.

And I venture to bet, Mr.· Speaker, that this government 1 from 1972 to now, and certainly in the last few years, has done everything possible_to re-establish and make it easier to live in rural Newfoundland. As it relates to the forest. access road in the petition presented by my colleague, certainly there .. is a crying need in many, many parts of Newfoundland .to have greater access to our wood resource for a firewood programme.

I would say that last year close to 200,000 cords of wood were used as firewood in Newfoundland; 200,000 cords of wood is one and a half time the wood requirement for the Stephenville newsprint operation, so you can see the magnitude of the wood resource that we have. I am sure many people in this House do not realize that since · 1978 we as a government, in co-operation with the Canadian Government through our DREE agreement 1 have built 1,500 kilometers of access roads simply for the purpose of getting at wood, 1,500 kilometers over the last six 7875

December 1, 1983 Tape 3596 PK - 1 MR.

POWER: years on forest access roads alone,and you combine that with all of the other things we are doing to make firewood available, anything from tree improvements at our Woodaale Nurs ·ery to experiments that we are now doing in co-operation with our Department of Energy and the Canadian Department of Energy to find faster growing species so the tree can grow on twelve or fifteen year cycles and be easy and able to be cut , all that is designed to make firewood available to our residents both in rural and in urban Newfoundland, And that is something that p_eople should realize .,it ~s not just rural Newfoundland that are into firewood burning.

Anyone who watches what is happening in the St . Johh's, Corner Brook and Grand Falls areas realizes that the urban parts of our Province are very much into burning firewood also. As it relates to the Win~er Works programme 1 there certainly have been in many cases of wastages with Winter Works programme• Programmes such as this, a forest access road 1is an extremely wise way for a Winter Works programme to be conducted.

It not only performs the valuable need of satisfying employment requirements but it also gives a community access to a very valuable resource which is very badly needed to cut down on heatiqg costs in our Province. I can only say, Mr. Speaker, that, besides the 1,500 kilometers of road that we ourselves have built as a government over the last six years,there are also many thousands of kilometers of road in this Province, some forest access roads of long ago, some old company roads which are no longer used that ·we as a department try and maintain.

It is almost impossible to maintain all of the fore~t access roads in this Province. We are having,in the last couple of years particularly 1 a very difficult problem 7876

December 1, 1983 Tape 3596 PK - 2 MR. POWER: financially to try and find money to clear these roads in the Wintertime. We find that all these Canada Works prgrammes get approved in January and February, they have no access to logs that they are trying to get at to do wharf projects or other projects around the community, and we are doing everything we can as a government and as a department to make sure there is access to as much timber as possible~ In the case of this petition from the member for Burin-Placentia West (Mr.

Tobin), then I certainly say I want to support it fully and that my department will be working very closely with the member to see that action is taken on the petition,and if it cannot be done through Winter Works,then maybe there is some other way to make access available to that resource. Thank you. ORDERS ' OF THE DAY On motion that the House resolve itself into Committee of the Whole, Mr. Speaker left the Chair. COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE MR. eHAIRMAN (Mr. Aylward): Order, please!

RESOLUTION: That it is expedient to bring in a measure further to amend The Loan and Guarantee Act, 1957 , the Act No. 70 of 1957, to provide for the advance of loans uo and the guarantee of the repayment of bonds or debentures issued by or'loans advanced to certain corporations. The hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Chairman, we do not wish to unnecessarily delay the passage of this bill. l1R. SIMMS: You have already. 7877

December 1, 1983 Tape 3596 PK - 3 MR. NEARY: No, we have not. We haue had some very interesting discussions on it. It is too ·bad the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) is not here toda~ He has been dispatched to Terra Nova,I understand,to try to save face for the administration 1for the leader of the party, to try to save face, Mr. Chairman. So Mr. Gallup has sent his Minister of Fisheries galloping to Terra Nova and what a rude awakening is waiting for that gentleman in the district of Terra Nova, Mr. Chairman.

The feedba~k we got today about these so-called polls that are not identified, the people are in a rage, they are in a rage. They said, has not that hen. gentleman, does he not have anything better to do than to be dreaming up these sorts of things that he dreams up? Is he living in a dream world? Does he not know that rural Newfoundland is out here, that he is neglecting rural Newfoundlana, that it is a St. John's government? There was a time, Mr. Chairman, when the former Liberal Administration was referred to as Her Majesty's Outport Government. JL~d I must say we were rather proud of that, rather proud of it.

But you have a group over there now representing outport districts who are just like sheep, they are just like the sheep. It is the St. John's Ministers who dominate the Cabinet, who make the decisions, who set .the policies and plans that are directed towards - MR. MARSHALL: On a point of order, ¥r. Speaker. MR. CHAIRitAN (Aylward) : On a point of order, the hen. President of the Council. MR. MEARY: - the urban centres and not the rural parts of this Province. MR. MARSHALL: On a point of order. I mean,the hen. gentleman anticipates,! know ·,this point of order, this is not germane to the issue. I mean, the 7878

December 1, 1983 Tape 3596 PK >: 4 MR. MARSHALL: hon. gentleman is obviously franctic over the situation in Terra Nova~ He is not allowed in the district by his own party, but he is trying to put 7879

December 1, 1983 Tape No. 3597 MR. MARSHALL: a little jibe in from his · b_ench. in th.e H:ouse of Assembly, Now, Mr. Chairman, I can appreciate his frustration and I can appreciate very much the fact that his own Party does not want him in Terra Nova and all that, But, Mr. Chairmii!n 1 we do have to comply with the rules of the House and what he is talking about is d:ertainly not relevant to this · bill. MR. NEARY: To tba,t point of order, Mr , Chairman• MR •. CHAIRMAN (.Aylwardl: To that point of order, the hon. Leader of the Oppos-ition. SD MR. NEARY: If I was th.e hon. gentleman, Mr.

Chairman, I would be tbe . last member of this Hous-e who should speak aeout being alLowed in any district, They have to keep him under wraps. Every time w-e get hi~ an interview on television, the administration loses another few thousand votes, Mr. Chairman, And if the h.on. Premier wants to came down next week, the same night that I am speaking at a couple of meetings i:n that district he ca,n set ll!? his own meeting a.nd we wiLl both. h.a,ve our rallies an .d see who ge .ts th.e bi .ggest turn out, Mr. Chairman. MR. CW'I.I'RMAN : O;r:;del? 1 please~ To that point of order, I would remind the hon.

Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) we are discussing Bill No. 77, "An Act To Amend The Loan And Guarantee Act". I do note that the han. Leader of the Opposition was talking about rural Newfoundland and I would say vaguely some of the things that we are discussing here have to do with fish plants in rural Newfoundland. 1 The hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: That is an excellent ruling, Mr. Chairman, an excellent ruling. 7880

December 1, 1983 Tape No. 3597 SD - 2 MR. NEARY: Now, Mr. Chairman, as I indicated, we are not going to delay the passage of this bill. We have had a thorough debate on it. If the Minister of Fisheries {_Mr. Morgan} was in his seat, ·where the Premier keeps telling us members should be, he was there earlier today, then I would have I . a few more questions to put to the han. gentleman. I did not get a reaction, for instance, from anybody on the benches there opposite about Canada negotiating on the quotas on the East Coast of Canada in return for access to the Europ'ean Common Market for Canadian fish.

I do not believe I got a reaction from han. gentlemen there opposite when I raised that matter. Mr. Chairman, we are not the administration. We are not in a decision making role. We can only raise these matters. We can only carry the ball for the people in rural Newfoundland.

And we expect to get a reaction from han. gentlemen there opposite who have had this nationalist is·sue for the last several years, it seems to have paid off for them but now they are prepared to lay back and let Bowater not tell them who they are dealing with., not fight agains ·t the External Affairs Department, the bureaucrats in Ottawa 1 giving away quotas of fish on the East Coast to get access to the European Common Market for Canadian fish. They are just laying back, Mr. Chairman, laying back.

They have rolled over and are playing dead on this ~tters and as a result rural Newfoundland, our traditional way of life, our culture, our way of life that was· built on the fishery , our most basic industry, is being eroded and downgraded. And members who represent fishing districts over there are mute and silent on this· matters while the St. John •·s members of th.e Cabinet do what they like; they set policy and make plans that are directed towards: St. John' 's, the urban centre, 7881

December l, 1983 Tape 3598 EC - l MR . NEARY: at the expense of rural Newfoundland. Mr. Chairman, how can these members sit there, in all conscience, and let that happen? MR. CALLAN: Most of them have left, you notice . MR. NEARl{: Do you remember what the battle of Confederation was all about? Do you remember who fought against Confederation? The Tories and the Water Street merchants, Mr. Chairman. They finally got the power back in their hands again. They haveit back now. After thirty-four years of Confederation, they finally got the power back into the h~nds of the power brokers in St. John's. MR.

CALLAN: That is right. MR. NEARY: And the han. gentleman, who is from an outport himself, has allowed that to happen : He has surrounded himself with six Cabinet ministers from St. John's, which gives St. John's more power. One street of St. John's has more power than the whole of Labrador, the Great Northern Peninsula. One street in St. John's has more power than the whole Southwest Coast of this Province. MR. OSMOND: (Inaudible) • MR. NEARY: The han. gentleman from St. Barbe (Mr. Osmond),who I do not believe has uttered a word so far this session, should get up and have a few words. Mr.

Chairman, if it were not for the federal money that is going into rural Newfoundland for make work projects, the people would starve to death. It is jus~ as simple as that, and it is just as well for han. members to face it. MR. CALLAN: They would have doors torn down down here. MR. NEARY: That is right. 7882

::. December 1, 1983 Tape 3598 EC - 2 MR. NEARY: I am amazed that there are not more demonstra~ions, ~ot more people surrounding Confederation Building demanding action on this, that and the other thing. If it were not for the federal funds that are going in for fire halls and town halls and water and sewerage and parks, recreation facilities, if it were not for the federal funds going into rural Newfoundland in the multimillions of dollars, Mr. Chairman, the people would be pretty hard pressed , indeed. Some of them probably would be starving. That is a record to be proud of, Mr. Chairman!

What we are seeing developing, unfolding, unravelling in this Province is rural Newfoundland versus urban Newfoundland. That is the real issue of the future in this Province, Mr. Chairman. MR. WARREN: They are down in Glovertown now . promising something else. MR. NEARY: That is right. And they have gone down now, I suppose,to trot out a few more promises. · MR. CALLAN: Ask .the people -in -Bellevue about those promises. MR. NEARY: The fish plant down there that is in trouble, and I suppose he has gone down now to make a few promises. DR. COLLINS: What guarantee is this you are talking about? MR.

NEARY: We are talking about the real issue of the future, rural Newfoundland versus my hon. fr-iend ' s home town . The To11mie • DR. COLLINS: I have my roots in rural Newfoundland. MR. NEARY: Oh, yes, he has his roots, alright. If there was ever a red-headed Tory in this world, 7883

Decemb er 1, 1983 MR. NEARY: .MR . WARREN: (Mr. Matthews) is, too . Tape 3598 EC - 3 it is the hon. gentleman. The member for Grand Bank MR. NEARY: No, the member for Grand Bank is not a Tory~ The member for St. John's South (Dr. Collins) is a Tory. The member for Grand Bank does not know what he is. He runs with the hare and holds with the hounds, Mr . Chairman. But one thing you cannot say about the member for St. John 's South is that he is not a Tory . I believe when Art Scammel wrote the song, 'the red-headed Tory out there in a dory', I think he was describing the hon . gentleman, Mr. Chairman.

Anyway, unless my hon . colleague has a few words and we are not motivated or provoked by hon. members on the other side, then we will pass the Loan and Guarantee Act , Mr. Chairman . We have had a good debate on l.t . We did not 7884

December 1, 1983 Tape No. 3599 MJ - 1 MR. NEARY: get many answers, we did not get the administration to lay out their plan~ an what they are goi~g to do to rescue the Newfoundland economy from complete ruin or what they are going to do about ·the incredible financial mess they have created in this Province. They did not give us any plans on what they intended to do about these two items. Tomorrow the unemployment figures will be released again by Stats Canada.

I predict nbw it.will :'show that Newfoundland leads the nation in unemploY.ment.and 50 per cent of those who are unemployed are young people between the ages of sixteen and twenty-five who cannot find jobs at the most crucial time in their lives when they need jobs to further / their careers, Mr. Chairman. And here,we are three weeks in this House now and no sign of any plans to deal with that problem. MR. CHAIRMAN (Aylward) : Order, please! On motion, resolution carried. On motion, clauses 1 through 3 carried. Motion,that the Committee report having passed the resolution and a bill consequent thereto, carried.

On motion, that the Committee rise, report progress and ask leave to sit again, Mr. Speaker returned to the Chair. MR. SPEAKER (Russe -ll) : Order, please.! The hon. the member for Kilbride. MR. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker,the Committee of the Whole have considered the 'matters to them referred and has directed me to report that it has adopted a certain 7685

December 1, 1983 Tape No. 3599 MJ - 2 MR. AYLWARD: resolution and recommends that a bill be introduced to give effect to the same. On motion, report received and adopted, b£11 ordered read a first, second and third time now, by leave. On motion, a bill, "An Act To Amend The Loan And Guarantee Act, 1957 (No. 2)", read a first, second and third time, ordered passed and its title be as on the Order Paper. (Bill No. 77). MR. MARSHALL: MR. SPEAKER (Russell} : Motion ~, I-1r. Speaker. Motion 1 is a resolution to be moved by the hon. the Premier. The han . the Premier. S'OME ""HON ~ MEMBERS : Hear, hear!

PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, it gives me gr.eat pleasure to introduce into this House the following resolution that was just referred to. As all hon. members know 1 the Constitutional debates,which led to the new Constitution of Canada,got into the thorny issue of aboriginal and native rights. I guess it was one of the key aspects of the whole Constitutional discussions that caused a lot of the First Ministers a lot of agony and a compromise was struck 7886

December 1,1983 Tape No. 3600 ah-1 PREMIER PECKFORD: at that time to allow.the new constitution to go ahead, And the compromise ~that was struck by all the first ministers was ·that we would,before we ·got into the whole question of aboriginal rights and title and land claims and all the rest of it - I think, Mr.

Speaker, it should be recorded that it ~as chiefly because of the provinces that this approach was taken and I think over time that this approach will be seen to be a far more rational approach to the whole question of natives and aboriginal _ rights than the approach that the federal government at the time wanted to take.

They wanted to rush fairly quickly into putting a number of provisions there that were suppose to cover all the problems as related to it 1 when 1 in fact, given the way that thing-s work across the nation,it varies from place to place, and you have various treaties 1 and in other places you have your status and your non-status people - and so it felt by a fair number - ·- of the province~ including Newfoundland, that a far more appropriate mechanism would be to commit ourselves in the constitution to some ongoing discussions with the native people and the Territories to insure that after that debate was held amongst all the first ministers and the territorial representatives and representatives of the various native pe~ples that then we would introduce various new constitutional amendments that could be entertained, that could get consensus and that could get the constitution amended along the lines that everybody wanted to see.

And so a commitment was put in the constitution that a constitutional conference would have to be held with the native peoples and with all the first ministers and the 7887

December 1,1983 Tape No. 3600 ah-2 PREMIER PECKFORD: territorial governments to f-urther discuss with everybc;>dY present the kinds of provisions which were appropriate to put in the constitution. And , of course,as everybody knows there was a conference held to discuss constitutional matters that directly affect the aboriginal peoples of Canada,including the identification and aefinition of the rights of those people to be included in the Constitution of Canada, and that was the approach that was taken and it was successful.

So 1as a result of that meeting,and I guess most people are familiar with that constitutional conference. I think it was televised at the time and it was held up to be a very important and significant conference. It was not just a fir~t ministers ~onference, it was a conference of first ministers of Canada plus the territorial. _ governments, plus representatives of all of the native groups in Canada . That conference went on for a couple of days, I believe, and the r~sult of that conference was an accord that was _ struck . ·between all the groups there to further amend the constitution.

And that is what we are doing here today, we are passing into law amendments that will become amendments to the constitution as a result of that conference that was held in April 1983. So what we have here, Mr. Speaker, if anybody has the copies of the Act itself, a~d we undertook as part of the accord that this would have to be passed by all the legislatures as well as the House of Commons and the Senate , of course, and so,as I understand it 1the provinces of Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island , Alberts, Manitoba, and Ontario have already passed the resolution.

And another provision in the accord was that it would be passed by all the legislatures by December 1983 1 so we 7888

December 1, 1983 Tape 3601 NM - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: are just really, for all intents and purposes, getting in under the wire. British Columbia has introduced the resolution in its House-in July but it still has not been passed 1 and I guess we understand the reason for that. Saskatchewan has given notice of its intent to introduce it but it has not been introduced in Saskatchewan :yet. And it was approved by the House of Commons in late June and referred to the Senate 1 and it was given approval by the Senate on November 3, just a few weeks ago.

And so there is British Columbia and Saskatchewan to come,and the Senate has now given its approval of it. So what this accord does is to further try to clarify how we are to proceed in the future relative to constitutional change for the aboriginal and native peoples of Canada.

If I may read it, "t-7HEREAS the Constitution Act,l982 1 provides that an amendment to the Constitution of Canada may be made by proclamation issued by the Governor Generar• and so on, two-thirds, "AJ.'ID m!EREAS 1the First Minister of Canada, First r-1inisters of nine of the provinces," because 1 of course, Quebec has never been a party to the new constitution and has refused to acknowledge that it is the legitimate Constitution of Canada, so it is, first ministers of nine of the provinces, _the Prime Minister of Canada,''the Government Leaders of the Yukon and the Northwest Territories,and the leaders of the National Aboriginal Associations wer .e signatories to an Accord on March 16, 1983, to lay before the Houses of Parliament and Legislative Assemblies of the Provinces prior to December 31, 1983 1 a resolution to authorize a proclamation to amendthe ConstitutionAct 1982 7889

December 1, 1983 Tape 3601 NM - 2 PREMIER PECKFORD: with respect to C!-boriginal rights. "AND

WHEREAS, the Premier of the Provin~e of Newfoundland was one of the signatories to the accord;

NOW THEREFORE, the House of Assembly" go on record and to put this into place. And then if one looks at the various sections here, because it is very short, we can see what the accord really consists of. "Paragraph 25 (

b) of the Constitution Act, 1982 is repealed and the following substituted therefore: "(

b) any rights or freedoms that now exist by way of land cliarns agreement, or may be so acquired." Before that time it was just existing rights. The new constitution, that is all it had until this one gets passed and that has been sort of refined now to include land claims treaties, or any that may be acquired in the interim. So treaties will be legitimized or constitutionalized in the constitution, which was not there before.

So that is one refinement that has come about as a result of the first meeting of the leaders of the native peoples and the territorial governments with the provinces, is that we refine that provision giving recognition of land claims, which I think is a very significant move, Mr. Speaker. And then, for greater certainty, section (2) says, "Section 35 of the Constitution Act, 1982 is amended by adding thereto the following subsections: "

(3) For greater certainty, in subsection (1) "treaty rights" includes rights that now exist by way of land claims agreements or may be so acquired." Which clearly then puts it • . Then Number (4) "Notwitstanding any other provision of the Act, the aboriginal and treaty rights referred to in subsection (1) are guaranteed equally to male 7890

December 1, 1983 Tape 3601 NM - 3 PRE~IER PECKFORD: · and :female persons. '' 'l'hat was another very key point, if you remember that meeting of a few months ago, that there was this legitimate argument. A~ a matter of fact 1there was not unanimity on that point. There were some aboriginal associations, or native associations, that supportec;i putting in male and female persons; there are other native and aboriginal associations that did not. And this was the danger, and it just points it up again, Mr. Speaker, that if we had taken any other approach than the one we are on now look at the problems you would have been in 7891

December 1, 1983 Tape No. 3602 SD - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: without discussing them with the native associations first because there is not unaminity among them. As I said, you have your status and your non-status and your more localized native groups,like in our Province the Naskapi Montagnais who might not see eye to eye 1 their association, with the Inuit Association,whodo not see eye to eye with the Micmac peoples of Conne River 1who do not see- and on you go and the Matis and so on.

But finally,after some debate and some reluctance by some native .associations 1 they went along with putting into the Con&titution that all of these aboriginal treaty rights referred to in subsection 1 are guaranteed equally to both male and female persons. It seems like an obvious kind of thing to have in there and why should anybody argue about it. And, of course, different native groups have different positions as it relates to male and female persons,obviously.

And if you look at the cultural lifestyle of some of these groups that is sort of understandable, at least historically,in the way that they have operated their societies·. Then 3 goes on: "The said Act is further amended by __ ~~ding ' thereto immediately after _s~ _ction _ 3~ thereof, the follo~ ;i;_~g s~c:;!:~ .9 !1: .': T_~ ~ Gov ~ -~I!.t____ of Canada and the provincial government ~re committe? to the principle that 1 before any ame~~e~~ -~ made to Class 24 of

section 91 _o; the Constitution Ac~, 18~7, or to

section 25" - which are the ones applicable to the native peoples, that"a constitutional conference that includes in it:S: __ ~-c;J~nd:Ci a_!l ___ ... item relating to the proposed amendment~ compose<;1 ~ -~ the Prime Minister of Canada and the · first ministers of the P~?yinces, wi~~be convened by the Prime Minister of Canadai and (

b) the Prime Minister of Canada will invite representatives of the aboriginal peoples of Canada to participate in 7692

December 1, 1983 Tape No. 3602 SD - 2 PREMIER PECKFORD: discussions on that item." So a~l governments are giving a commitment that the aboriginal peoples will be informed and consulted before additional amendments to things affecting them actually can put into the Constitution. Then

Part IV.l deals with constitutional conferences.

"In addition to the conference convened in March ~- 983, at least t1~9~_:: c:nd here is a commitment by everybody again - "constitutional conferences composed of the Prime Minister of Canada and the· first ministers of the provinces shall be convened by the Prime l1inister of Canada, the first within three years after April 17, 1982 and the second within five years after that date. 11 So there is a commitment by the government leaders of Canada that not only will we cons.ult the aboriginal peoples when something comes up which affects· them, but we go on to give them an additional commitment that two further constitutional conferences or Firs·t Ministers ·' Conferences· will have to be held within the peri~d of time as just described and as I just read.

And, of course, "each conference convened under su_b.section (1) shall have included in its agenda constitutional matters that directly affect the aboriginal peoples of Canada 1 and the Prime Minister of Canada shall invite representatives of thos·e peoples to participate in the discussions." So we will not only have these cons·titutional conferences but we will obligate ourselves to invite representatives of the aboriginal people who will be allowed to speak at that meeting and express their views.

"The Prime Minister of Canada shall invite elected representatives of the governments of the Yukon Terri tory and the Northwest Territories to participate in discussions on any item on the agenda of a conference convened under subsection(!) that 1 in the. opinion 7893

December 1, 19S3 Tape No . 3602 so - 3 PREMIER PECKFORD: of the Prime Minister,directly affects the Yukon Territory · and the Northwest Territories Here is a funny kind of provision, it is a commi..tment for the Yukon and Northwest Territories to attend 1 but it is not complete in itself, it . . has within it some power left to the Prime Minister of Canada . Of course 1the reason for that from the federal government's posit):on is that the Yukon Territory and the Northwest Territories come under federal legislation and are not i'n themselves in the 7894

December l, 1983 Tape 3603 EC - l PREMIER PECKFORD: not in themselves in the same status as our provinces, so that,therefore, you have a little thing here which gives the Prime Minister some powerif in his opinion it does affect them. So those are the main parts of what we are doing h~re today, Mr. Speaker. It is not extensive but I think it is significant.

And I will just make the point again that, in my opinion, it is important primarily because you are establishing a logical,reasonable process· And not only has that been established, it has been further refined by the conference of March past, which further puts into the constitution obligations upon the Prime Minister of Canada and the Government of Canada, obligations upon all the provincial Premiers for additional constitutional meetings,and also obligates us that if anything comes up which affects the . aboriginal peoples ~hat they have to be notified and consulted on it and, of course, the male and female persons being already in there as well.

So I think it is a significant step forward, Mr. Speaker, for Canada, and I am, as Premier of the Province, pleased and proud to introduce it into our Legislature, into the Newfoundland Legislature, and hope that it gets the unanimous support of all han. members. It remains to be seen, Mr. Speaker, how it proceeds from here, but there has to be full consultation, and no doubt there is going to be lively debate over the next couple of years as further refinements and additions, no doubt, to the constitution are made, relative to the interests of the aboriginal people of Canada.

From a more provincial point of view, Mr. Speaker, where the Province of Newfoundland, as it relates to our own native groups, are on record, 7695

December 1, 1983 Tape 3603 EC - 2 PREMIER PECKFORD: as it relates to the Naskaupi, Montagnais and the ' Inuit of Labrador, that we are prepared -to sit down with the federal government and with the peoples of the Naskaupi Montagnais Association and of the Inuit Association and begin serious discussions towards what happens as it relates to native and aboriginal claims 1 • and rights in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. As it relates to the people of Coone River, we have done an extensive and detailed research and could find no evidence which would support aboriginal title by the people of Coone River.

And our position is that they should be treated exactly the same as all the other people who live on the Island. But as it relates to the Naskaupi Montagnais,and as it relates to the Inuit, we do state that we believe that there is an aboriginal claim. There are legitimate rights which the people of these two groups should have more discussion on with the Canadian Government and with the provincial government and we are prepared to sit down and recognize,right from the start,that they are different from the rest of us on the Island,including the different band of people in Coone River.

Our problem has been that in all our correspondence to date with the federal government, they have not b~en willing to sit down, so we are still waiting for some answer from them on that. ---·~ --· ·- ·-.. 7896

December 1, 1983, Tape 3604, Page 1 -- apb PREMIER PECKFORD: But that not withstanding, Mr. Speaker, and I do not want it to detract from the import and substance and items in this particular resolution, this is an extremely important one and no doubt over the coming years there will be additional amendments to the Constitution which will have to go through the respective legislatures of Canada to further refine and support, really, the aboriginal peoples of Canada who remain such an important part of the total Canadian society. I take great pleasure in introducingthis. MR.

SPEAKER(Aylward): The hon. the member for Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, first I would like to thank the Premier for giving me advance notice. In the last week I was out of town, in Toronto, and he agreed to hold off until I got back to respond to this resolution. I believe, Mr. Speaker, that the Premier failed to give the whole story, he failed to give the story started back in November 23, 1981. That is when the story started 1for that is when the Premier betrayed the native people and is continuing to betray the native people.

Regardless of ~hat he is bringing into the House today, he still made a big mistake, he made a big blunder on November 23, 1981. It is fine and dandy. The Premier came in today,like an old dog with its tail between its legs 1trying to play up to the native people,. hoping to get them on his side. Mr.

Speaker, -we will recall, on November 23, 1981, and I will read it for the record, a resolution that the hon. the Premier brought into this House: 'WHEREAS the Government of Newfoundland' - he did not even say Government of Newfoundland and Labrador - 'has supported the inclusio~ of the rights of the aboriginal peoples of Canada in the Constitution; 7897

December 1, 1983, Tape 3604, Page 2 -- apb 1-lR.. WARREN : 'AND

WHEREAS an agreement has now been reached among all the signatories to the Constitutional Accord that the rights of the aboriginal peoples of Canada are to be entrenched in the Constitution; AND

WHEREAS the identification and definition of the rights of the aboriginal peoples of Canada are to be discussed at a constitutional conference with representations of those people within the next year;

NOW THEREFORE

be it resolved that this House approve and support the agreement of ~he Government of the Province to the inclusion of the rights of the aboriginal peoples of Canada in the Constitution in the following terms: ' MR. NEARY: Two years ago? MR. WARREN: November 25, 1981. 'Rights of . the aboriginai peoples of Canada. 34(1) The existing aboriginal and treaty rights of the aboriginal peoples of Canada are hereby recognized and affirmed.' Now, Mr. Speaker, that is exactly what the Premier said earlier.

And when he mentioned this first he said the new resolution says, and I will repeat what the Premier said earlier, 'Any rights or freedoms that now exist by way of land claims agreements or may be so acquired.' Now, Mr. Speaker, this is what the Premier tried to do back in 1981. He came into this House on three successive days trying to get unanimous ~upport for that resolution and the next day both newspapers carried the headlines: "The Premier was trying to betray the native people." 7898

December 1, 1983, Tape 3605, Page 1 -- apb MR. WARREN: The Premier carne in in 1981, Mr. Speaker, and tried to do that. And it was not the minister on that side who is responsible for Labrador who stood up and tried to stop him from bringing that resolution in·, No, Mr. Speaker, it was the gentleman from Torngat Mountains(Mr. Warren) who stood up on three consecutive days and stopped the Premier from getting unanimous consent in. this House.

There is no reason ~he Premier should feel happy today because he is finally bringing in - by the way, .I may as well say it at the beginning, I am going to support this resolution, yes, -- -·-· because it is the resolution that the natives peoples who came into St.

John's on November 23, 1981, native people from Nain, the Naskaupie - Montagnais Indian Association, and the Conne River Band Council and ·persuaded the government, persuaded the Premier not to sign the Accord under the then present conditions, when the Premier was hoping to get consent of this House so that he could call a big press conference and say that he had finally done it. Mr. Speaker, it was my constituents who stood up and said, 'Look, we do not want this to go ahead.' MR. NEARY: So what you are saying, even though he had unanimous consent on that resolution he could not deliver on that resolution? MR.

WARREN: That is right. That is right, he had to bring in a new resolution and the new resolution came after he had met with the native peoples across the Province, and across Canada, and this is it here. But if it had not been for the will of the people who were sitting in the galleries on November 24, whom the Premier betrayed twenty-four.hours earlier in a meeting, and my 7899

December 1, 1983, Tape 3605, Page 2 -- apb MR. WARREN: getting up and not giving unanimous support that the Premier finally gave in and dropped the resolution from the Order Paper altogether. Now, Mr. Speaker, I will quote, and I will table it afterward for han. members information, some comments that were made about those notorious days of the Premier, the blackest days. As the President of the LIA said, it is on page 3659 of Hansard MR. SIMMS: Hansard, the President of LIA? MR . WARREN: . How did he get in Mr.

Speaker, I quote from a letter from the President of the LIA: He said, 'The day of the signing of the Constitutional Accord by the Prime Minister of Canada and the Premier of the Province has oeen one of the blackest days in the history of Canada's aboriginal people.' Now, Mr. Speaker, that was because the Premier was still determined to make sure that the native people were not going to be recognized. Now, Mr . Speaker - MR. SIMMS: The venom . MR.

WARREN: - "On November 24, or shortly thereafter - I believe the han. minister, by the way he is taking notes, is going to have a few comments to make afterwards. -I only wish, Mr. Speaker, that he could be more positive than he was back in November, 1981. " When the nine Premiers"­ I am quoting, Mr.

Speaker, from a book on the Newfoundland native groups in the Constitution, a report by Adrian Tanner - I will be only too glad to table it: "When the nine premiers and the Federal Government signed the Accord on November 9, 1981, native people across Canada felt­ betrayed by the dropping of the aboriginal rights clause.'' 7900

December 1, 1983, Tape 3605 , Page 3 -- apb MR. WARREN: He said, "It had been ' Peckford ' who was given the credit ~or proposing the compromised draft of the Constitution which dropped the aboriginal rights claim." 7901

December 1, 1983, Tape 3606, Page 1 -- apb MR. WARREN: Remember the Premier coming back from Ottawa on · his high horse? 'I was the man who got the Constitution brought back to Canada, I was the guy who convinced all the other Premiers.' He was also the same fellow, Mr. Speaker, who dropped the aboriginal rights clause. I repeat another comment that was made here, and I repeat it the same as it is here: 'Peckford's office refused the request .for a meeting with the aboriginal people. Two support group members' - just lis~en to this, Mr.

Speaker - 'two support group members intercepted Peckford as he was leaving a meeting at Memorial University and were told that he could not agree to re-insert the aboriginal rights clause because it would break the delicate accord between the nine Premiers.' That is .what the Premier told two support group members, Mr. Speaker, that he could not re-insert the aboriginal rights clause because it would break the delicate accord with the other Premiers. Now, Mr. Speaker, this is the same Premier who came into today saying he is concerned about the native people.

It was the native people who got him right up to the wall, had him cornered so that he finally had to bend. The Premier did not do this willingly, this Premier has not done one thing willingly in this Province other than raise taxes. Mr. Speaker, an emergency debate on aboriginal rights was introduced in the House of Assembly against the government's wishes. I believe you will remember, Mr.

Speaker, that I brought in a resolution and the Premier would not even bring it to a vote, and the reason the Premier would not let that resolution come to · a vote was because it was going to put his Minister of Rural, Agricultural and Northern Development(Mr. Goudie) in an awkward position because that minister would have been 7902

December 1, 1983, Tape 3606, Page 2 -- apb MR. WARREN: obliged to vote for it, and I believe his conscience would have made him vote for it. But the Premier would not let it go to a vote because he did not want one of his Cabinet Ministers to vote for the resolution. Now all of a sudden, just to follow the sequence of events, when the Premier did speak to that resolution he brought up the subject of land claims, the delicate subject of ~and claims.

Here is what Adrian Tanner said about the subject of land claims: ·- 'The attempt to substitut~ land claim negotiations for constitutional aboriginal rights can also be seen in the following statement by the Premier. He said, 'We do agree, as we had indicated in our statement on land claims over a year ago, that we are totally in favour of negotiating the whole native rights si.tuation, but negotiating it like we have indicated, like we wanted to is one thing, inclusion in the Constitution is another.' Now, he wanted to, he said, but he cannot do it. The reason he could not do it, Mr.

Speaker, was because,if he mentioned aboriginal rights 1 the other nine Premiers - he said nine, but I think there were only seven of them - would not be willing to . go along with it. 7903

December 1, 1983, Tape 3607, Page 1 -- apb MR. WARREN: It was the determining factor in 1981, when the hon. the member for Mount Scio (Mr. Barry), the Premier's stiffest competition, spoke in favour of the resolution. The member for Mount Scio, and we all know to whom I am referring. I will repeat, Mr.

Speaker, just in case some han. member does not know, when the Liberal Opposition tried to force an emergency debate on aboriginal rights in the Constitution,one after another the government members opposed the idea until one of their colleagues, 'Leo Barry',made it clear that he sided with the Liberals that such a debate should be held. The Premier was then so scared that one of his former Cabinet Ministers, a member on his side could get up and convince the Premier that the debate 'should be held. Now, Mr.

Speaker, 'At this time Peckford quickly agreed to the debate on condition that at the end no vote would be held.' As I say, Mr. Speaker, the reason no vote was held was because he did not want to embarrass his minister from Labrador. Mr. Speaker, right -·- ~· . through the debate on November 24 the theme was, 'However just the principle o.f aboriginal rights may be,Newfoundland cannot agree to it without knowing how much the principle is going to cost the Province.' Now that was the concern. If we go back to Hansard - MR. TOBIN: You are supposed to give your own opinion here,not somebody else's.

You should not be reading fran a ;paper : You will never be leader that way, Garf. MR. WARREN: Mr ~ Speaker, I ask for the protection of the Chair. I would also like to suggest to the member for Placentia West (~tr. Tobin) that he refer to a m~ber by his district,not by his first name. MR. SIMMS: Burin-Placentia Wes4. You have to do the same thing, only use the right name. -------- - 7904

Decel!lber l, 1983, Tape 3607, Page 2 -- apb SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hea .r! MR. WARREN: I am doing o.kay. MR. SIMMS: Instead of reading somebody -else's read your own speech. MR.. Wl\RREN: Mr. Speaker, it gees on: 'Newfoundland cannot agree to it without knowing how much it will cost.' And every member on that side who spoke on Novel!lber 24, 1981, said, 'What is it go.i,ng . to cost us? How much is it going to cost . us to look after 2,000 na;tive people?' Tbat was the big bottom line, the big concern, how much it was going to cost us. I believe, Mr.

Speaker, the important fact is that we ·have native people in this Province and we should respect them, w~ich this government did not do until they were forced to. The Premier said today in the half hour he was speaking, 'This government is concerned about the future of the native people.' 7905

December 1, 1983, Tape 3608, Page 1 -- apb MR. WARREN: Just today , Mr. Speaker, in the Question Period the Premier said, and the Premier was right proud today when he brought in this resolution - MR. SIMMS: He is going on Provincial Affairs next Saturday, by the way. MR. WARREN: Good! Good! I hope he will do as good a job as the man did there last week. MR. SIMMS: Your campaign speech, I can visualize it now around the 15th., ~n Gander, when you make your announcement about the leadership. MR. WARREN: Mr.

Speaker, when the Premier bought in this resolution today,the Premier said, 'We are concerned about the native people, we are concerned about the land claims.' Mr. Speaker, it is ironic. · How can a person, the Premier of this Province, talk out of both sides of his mouth? It is not very easy but he did it within the past hour. In response to · a question today to the han. Minister of the Environment{Mr. Andrews), to the han. the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth(Mr.

Simms), who is responsible for wildlife, and to the Premier concerning Strange Lake,the answers we got back were there was no monitoring going on: the only monitoring that is going on is watching the Quebec officials. The Minister of the Environment did not even know there was such a place up there. The )nly thing he is concerned about is, if development takes place,then ~e will do an environmental impact ·study • . Now, Mr. Speaker, these are the kind of ministers - MR. SIMMS: {Inaudible) vote for you ~ now. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, I would like to be heard in silence. MR. SI .MMS: I am sorry. I apologize. MR.

SPEAKER(McNicholas): Order, please! 7906

December 1, 1983, Tape 3608, Page 2 -- apb MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, these are the kind of ministers that ·we have in this Province, who, just an hour before the Premier brought in this resolution, were contrary to what it says. MR. SIMMS: What does that have to do with Strange Lake? MR. WARREN: It has a lot to do with Strange Lake because. the Premier is talking about land claims in this resolution. SIMMS: Do not get excited, just explain it to me. MR. WARREN: Okay. What does this have to do with Strange Lake?

In this resolution that the Premier brought in 1he is referring to land claims acquired, land claims that will be ongoing. The lands claims that will be ongoing are th _e ones that are ongoing now. MR. SPEAKER(McNicholas): Order, please! It being five o'clock,! would like to inform the House there are no questions for the Late Show. SOME HON. MEMBERS : What? What? MR. MARSHALL: No questions again for the Late Show. Some Opposition~ MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: Mr.

Speaker, before I was so rudely interrupted by the hon. gentlemen,! was saying this resolution concerns land claims. And the minister knows, and the Premier knows - that minister there does not know - that there are ongoing claims now with the Province and with Ottawa about territory in Labrador,and Strange Lake is included in Labrador. MR. ANDREWS: What do :J'l?U ~, I did not know? . ... - .. . - MR. 'VJARREN: You did not nean by tll3 way you ~red tl-e ~.Jestio!'l. --' 7907 -.

\. December 1, 1983., Tape 3608, Page, 3 ~:--apb MR. SIMMS: you talking about? MR. WARREN: All he said was, What are Now, Mr. Speaker, the Premier brings in this resolution and what happens he is contradicting"what was said in the past about the native people. The Premier cannot go along 7908

December 1, 1983, Tape 3609, Page 1 -- apb MR. WARREN: trying to blindfold the people of this Province. The Premier is trying to blindfold the people completely but it is not working. The native people in Labrador know, Mr. Speaker, that it is not :.:working. Let me relay some more information, Mr. Speaker. Douglas Saunders 1 of the Faculty of Law _at the University of British Columbia, -- on November, 18, 1980 said - DR. COLLINS: Was that Wednesday or Thursday? -··-- · MR. WARREN: You can find ou:t yourself. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SIMMS: What a vicious attack! Do not be nasty now. Stop interrupting.

MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, in speaking to the Native Support Group on November 18, 1980, Dr. saunders said, and I quote from a paper, and I will table it if it is of interest,'that the provincial government is concerned '­ and this was concerning native land claims. Here are the three reasons the Premier's attitude is what it is on native land claims: The Premier has not yet, up until today, advised the native associations in this Province what his position is on native claims. And he is not going ·to qo it, Mr. Speaker. He is not going-to do it. AN HON. MEMBER: Why is that? MR.

WARREN: Because he does not want to do it, and here are three reasons given by Dr. Saunders: The government is concerned about its Labrador jurisdiction, number one, that the settlement of native land claims could stall development, number two, and settlement would help to develop the isolated region. Those are the three reasons. The Premier 7909

December 1, 1983, Tape 3609, Page 2 -- apb MR. WARREN: is scared,because if the Premier would adjust honestly and sincerely the native people'.s claims, the native people's concerns, then he knows it will have some effect on development. I know it will have some effect on development, but let us face it, let us stand up and address those concerns now. If not it is still going to continue and you will see the Minister of the Environment, who is acting like a fool in the doorway, coming in two years down the road saying, .We will have an impact study on Strange Lake. Then it will be too late, Mr. Speaker.

The George ~iver caribou herd will be destroyed by then.by the activity, sven by the activity that was going on in the George River area this past Summer. Mr. Speaker, it is nigh time that this government recognized that the native people of Labrador are not to. be taken for granted. They are not going to be taken for granted any more. Past administrations, from 1949, Joey's administration, the Moores' administration and now this present administration, have taken the native people for granted, but the will not be taken for granted any more. Mr.

Speaker, it is interesting to note that only last week in response to a question I posed to the Minister of Justice(Mr. Ottenheimer) which had to do with a Daniel_.s. de LaPenha, Hilton Head, South Carolina MR. SIMMS: name? MR. WARREN: name? P~e~n-h-a. Penha. MR. SIMMS: MR. WARREN: How do you spell that last How do you spell the last Penda? I suppose your pronunciation might be different than mine, but,anyhow, it is some £oreigner. Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Justice responded, and you would not 7910 .:.

December , 1983, Tape 3610, Page 1 -- apb MR. WARREN: believe the kind of ridiculous ans