Hansard Blues

Legislative Assembly

Draft Report of Debates

The Honourable Raj Chouhan, Speaker

4th Session, 42nd Parliament

Monday, October

16, 2023

Afternoon Sitting

Draft Transcript — Terms of Use

The House met at 1:34 p.m.

[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]

Routine Business

Introductions by Members

Hon. L. Popham: Happy Monday. I have some visitors here today. We had lunch together. It was the Minister

of Tourism and Sport from Alberta, Minister Joseph Schow. We have Benjamyn McKay,

the chief of staff, joining him; David Goldstein, the deputy minister; and Stefanie

Jones, Travel Alberta team member and senior adviser, executive office.

[1:35 p.m.]

We had a great lunch, discussing how we can be partners, how our visitors can share

in an experience. We did point out, though, that B.C. receives many more Albertans

than Alberta receives British Columbians, but we decided that we would work together

on that as well.

B. Banman: The saying goes that behind every good man there is, in my case, a much, much better

woman, who stands there and shakes their head. I would like to introduce my wife,

who has been standing behind, shaking her head, for the last 40 years, Sharon Banman.

Would the House please give her a round of welcome applause.

R. Parmar: I'm really pleased to be able to have two sets of introductions.

Firstly, I had such a wonderful time at lunch this afternoon with two dear friends.

When I think of public service in my community in Langford, I think of two individuals,

Lanny and Dianna Seaton. Someone who's very familiar to myself and to the MLA for

Esquimalt-Metchosin, Lanny was a city councillor for almost 30 years. Diana served

on the school board with me and was my vice-chair for a number of years. I think so

highly of them.

Would the House please make them feel very welcome here today.

Then, just briefly, I also want to introduce — I'm not sure if they're in the precinct

at the moment, but I know they're in the House here today — Rudy Paquette, who is

the new chief of the Salteau First Nations, as well as James Hickling their legal

adviser, in the House.

Would the House please make them feel very welcome.

I. Paton: Today I'd like to introduce a former CA. I seem to train these CAs to do a great job,

and then they get hijacked by consulting firms. My former CA Taylor Grant is here

today.

He's now working for Sedgwick Strategies, along with my good friend Tanya Corbet,

from TFN, and also Taylor Baker, from TFN, who's a part of their economic development

team and a councillor at TFN. Sedgwick is committed to getting worthwhile industrial,

natural resource and infrastructure projects to yes in this province.

Please welcome my good friends from Delta and TFN.

Tributes

SUSAN GILES AND EVANNA BRENNAN

Hon. A. Dix: On October 7, in our break on the Saturday of Thanksgiving weekend, I had the honour

to award the Order of B.C., in a special private ceremony, to two nurses, Susan Giles

and Evanna Brennan. They're extraordinary contributors, and it was a special ceremony.

People who know nursing in B.C. know of their enormous contribution, in particular

to everyone who lives in the Downtown Eastside. They were nursing partners who had

served the Downtown Eastside for 40 years, in particular during the HIV/AIDS crisis,

where they brought their special care to the community and, most recently, of course,

during the overdose public health emergency. They are extraordinary representatives

of the Order of B.C., and everything it represents, our highest civilian honour in

our province.

I am sad to report to the House that a week later, Evanna Brennan — the ceremony,

of course, took place in the palliative unit at St. Paul's Hospital — passed away,

this past Saturday. She and her work partner, Susan, made an extraordinary contribution

to life in B.C. It is, I think, fair to say, one of the true honors of my career here

to have been part of that ceremony.

I wish to, on behalf of all the House, send our condolences to her family.

Perhaps, on behalf of the House, Mr. Speaker, you could send a special message.

Introductions by Members

S. Furstenau: It's my pleasure to introduce a group of students in the precinct today, from Duncan

Christian School and from Cité Étudiante at Roberval in Quebec.

Will the House join me in making them feel most welcome.

Bienvenue .

M. Lee: Mr. Speaker, as you well know, in married life, there are very important times to

take the lead, the guidance and the feedback from your spouse, but this is not one

of those moments.

[1:40 p.m.]

Christina, I would say that on this occasion of 31 years, 10 months and, by my count,

15 days of our marriage together, I would like to welcome you here to the House, and

also to say that I wouldn't be here without you.

You know that — 7½ years of sacrifice with you by my side, with the big heart that

you have for British Columbia, for my constituents and other community leaders and

participants across British Columbia. We're very grateful to you. I love you, and

I know that it hasn't been easy.

Would all members of this House please join me in welcoming my wife, Christina.

Tributes

BINDIRO KAUR CHOHAN

Hon. R. Kahlon: I rise with some sad news. This morning I found out my grandmother passed away.

I want to recognize Bindiro Kaur Chohan, a remarkable woman. Two weeks ago she found

out she had not much time left. Was strong till the last day, defiant, said she was

ready. Came to this country — 24 years old, two kids, husband passed away. Raised

going to miss her.

I want to say to my cousins, my family that are watching, that she was a special woman.

We'll honour her in a good way.

Introductions by Members

T. Stone: Well, it's not often that I get to introduce people from Kamloops–South Thompson who

make the trek down here for a few days of sightseeing and taking in the Legislature

and whatnot, but today is one of those days.

I'm very pleased to welcome to the House Samantha Pearce and her mother, Diana O'Dare.

Samantha also happens to be one of my very capable constituency assistants.

I want to assure you that you're going to get a great tour this afternoon. It might

even rival Keith Baldrey's tour. That's saying a lot. I hope that you have a great

day today and through the week.

I'd ask the House: would you please make these Kamloopsians welcome.

Mr. Speaker: Members, it's now my pleasure to welcome three members of my Indigenous Reconciliation

Advisory Committee who have joined us in the precinct today: Chief David Jimmie of

the Squiala Nation, Councillor Howard Grant of the Musqueam Indian Band, and Executive

Councillor Taylor Baker of the Tsawwassen First Nation.

These Indigenous leaders, as well as Chief Willie Sellars of the Williams Lake First

Nation, have been providing me with guidance on building stronger relationships with

Indigenous communities and on other reconciliation initiatives. I would like to thank

them for meeting with me today in Victoria.

I would also like to thank Tanya Corbet and Taylor Grant who have helped to facilitate

this work. Thank you so much.

Please join me in welcoming all of them.

Introduction and

First Reading of Bills

BILL 36 — POLICE AMENDMENT ACT, 2023

Hon. M. Farnworth presented a message from Her Honour the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill

intituled Police Amendment Act, 2023.

Hon. M. Farnworth: I move the bill be introduced and read a first time now.

I'm pleased to introduce Bill 36, the Police Amendment Act, 2023. This bill amends

the Police Act to clarify the process any municipality must follow when they wish

to change their police of jurisdiction. It will ensure that the process has transparency

and ensures that municipalities, police organizations and the minister have clear

responsibilities to follow in any transition.

These amendments include a requirement for a transition to proceed to completion once

approved and the requirement for entities involved in a transition to provide information

to the minister when requested. These amendments support the Solicitor General's statutory

duty to ensure the maintenance of adequate and effective policing in the province

by addressing a lack of clarity in the legislation.

Finally, the legislation also contains provisions that provide clarity and finality

to the people of Surrey regarding their ongoing transition.

[1:45 p.m.]

Amendments to the act will specify that the city of Surrey must provide policing services

through a municipal police department. It also provides authority for the Solicitor

General to cancel the existing agreement between the province and the city of Surrey

for the provision of RCMP services.

This legislation also provides government the ability, if necessary, to appoint an

administrator to assume the functions of the Surrey police board to oversee the Surrey

police service.

Mr. Speaker: Members, the question is first reading of the bill.

Motion approved.

Hon. M. Farnworth: I move that the bill be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next

sitting of the House after today.

Bill 36, Police Amendment Act, 2023, introduced, read a first time and ordered to

be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House

after today.

Statements

(Standing Order 25B)

DEMOCRACY AND LEADERSHIP

J. Phillip: Good afternoon. I have chosen the topic of celebrating democracy for a couple of reasons:

my own constituents of Vancouver–Mount Pleasant, whom I consider to be very progressive,

and the historic win in Manitoba by Wab Kinew, who's now the Premier-elect.

When we first met Wab Kinew, he was a young guy, and we were at an Assembly of First

Nations conference. He came up and sat down beside my husband, Stewart Phillip, and

asked: "What does it take to be a good leader?" He said two things: (1) you have to

love the land and love the people, and (2) if you want to be sovereign, you can't

be a slave to drugs and alcohol. We knew he had a little problem there.

By definition, "democracy" comes from the Greek words for "people power." I consider

my role as MLA to listen to my constituents and my colleagues about what our issues

and concerns are, and then inspire all of us to explore and share those solutions

to those concerns.

When I listen to some of the issues that are raised in the House, I hear the hurt

and the anger, and really, what's underneath anger is hurt. We're all in this together,

and our constituents deserve that we, as leadership, resolve these issues in a very

professional, positive manner.

Limləmt.

WORLD MENTAL HEALTH DAY

E. Sturko: Well, last week while we were on break, on October 10, it was the international World

Mental Health Day. The message that mental health support is a universal human right

was spread around the globe, calling to attention the urgent need for greater supports

if we truly want to address this critical issue.

We must come together to recognize the mental health crisis in our communities, fighting

the stigma and promoting mental health education, advocacy and support. Unfortunately,

we know that many people around the world, including right here in British Columbia,

don't have the safe space, opportunity or means to seek the help that they need.

As shadow minister for Mental Health I have had countless opportunities to speak with

organizations and advocates across British Columbia who do incredible work and who

are working tirelessly to ensure our province delivers much-needed mental health support

to those who need it. As elected officials, we have a duty to fight for greater access

for these vital resources and to build a system of care that prioritizes people's

well-being.

There's a lot of work to do in our province, but it starts with us. I've shared my

own personal experience with PTSD to show people that they're not alone and that there

are people who will take your hand when you reach out for help, but also to recognize

that it's important to check in on those around you, because you never know someone

else's internal struggles.

On World Mental Health Day, we renew our commitment to bring an enhanced quality of

care to British Columbians and to ensure that everyone in this province has somewhere

they can turn to for support, no matter what challenge they're facing.

[1:50 p.m.]

YOUTH CLIMATE CORPS

B. Anderson: At the start of the pandemic, Rik Logtenberg, one of my fellow Nelson city councillors,

approached me. John Cathro and Richard Klein had a vision to train a workforce of

young people that can contribute to climate resilience, and they wanted my help.

The Youth Climate Corps started in Nelson, but it has since expanded and employs young

people to address everything from reducing fire risk through fuel mitigation to retrofitting

homes for non-profits. I can tell you how important I believe the Youth Climate Corps

is, but I think it's more powerful to hear from one of the participants.

Aur Hager is one of the alumni of the Youth Climate Corps. These are her words:

"The Youth Climate Corps provided me with the opportunity to get involved in my community

and make a difference. Fighting climate change is an overwhelming undertaking, and

I didn't know where to start, but this program gave me the chance to do work that

helped increase climate resilience and reduce emissions in an accessible way.

"On top of that, I was able to connect with like-minded youth, and those friendships

empowered me to advocate for a better world. I feel very lucky to have had this opportunity.

And I hope to see this program continue to grow and expand and reach more communities."

Those are the words of Aur.

I was super excited about the Youth Climate Corps' vision from day one because young

people are not only future leaders; many of them are leaders today. The vision of

the Youth Climate Corps team, led by Ben Simoni, is to expand across the province

and have chapters in every community working to address the climate emergency while

proactively working to mitigate the impacts of climate change and improve people's

lives in an equitable way. I completely support that vision.

I would like to thank the Youth Climate Corps for everything that they do that positively

impacts our communities.

If I may seek leave to make an introduction….

Mr. Speaker: After.

SMALL BUSINESS WEEK

T. Stone: Today is the start of Small Business Week in British Columbia. We take this opportunity

to recognize and celebrate the incredible businesses that enrich our communities,

as well as the dedicated entrepreneurs that keep them running.

Under normal circumstances, operating a business is no small task. Our small business

owners work tirelessly to keep their operations running, to serve their patrons and

to look after their staff. But right now the work of keeping the doors of a business

open is becoming a monumental challenge for many. Throughout B.C., our small and medium-sized

businesses are faced with growing barriers, dealing with massive cost increases for

everything from the goods they depend on to rising taxes.

Many barely made it through the pandemic to then be faced with worsening crime and

street disorder that results in smashed windows, stolen goods and scared staff and

customers, not to mention added costs that can't be passed on to their customers.

Skyrocketing rents are putting increased pressure on establishments that have been

in their communities for decades, jeopardizing their ability to keep operating.

It's imperative that we all work together to support our local businesses, which have

consistently supplied the goods and services that we all rely upon. Small businesses

are the foundational bedrock of our communities, employing over one million British

Columbians. They are our favourite local cafes and restaurants, our community and

boutique stores, our accountants and child care operators, our farmers, ranchers and

so much more.

This week, we celebrate our small and medium-sized businesses. We recognize the dedication

of countless bold entrepreneurs who took a risk and worked hard to grow their businesses,

creating opportunity not only for themselves but for their employees, contractors

and others.

We seek to celebrate and lift up future entrepreneurs who are just starting out on

this journey, and vitally, we commit to working for their continued success in our

province, because when our small businesses thrive, we all do.

COMMUNITY ACTION ON

EQUITY IN SOUTH VANCOUVER

G. Chow: This coming Friday, October 20, the South Vancouver Neighbourhood House will be hosting

a community forum called Reframing South Vancouver Initiative to share in the research

and the community perspective on the social infrastructure gaps being faced in South

Vancouver, as well as potential solutions to ensure improvements in the area.

The Reframing South Vancouver Initiative incorporates the findings of the South Vancouver

neighbourhood equity report, which is funded by the community research grant program

at Simon Fraser University. The leadership teams at South Vancouver Neighbourhood

House and the Marpole Neighbourhood House worked in partnership with researchers in

SFU's urban studies program and the faculty of health sciences.

[1:55 p.m.]

They sought to investigate the gaps in provision and distribution of resources in

South Vancouver that put residents at a disadvantage compared to other areas. South

Vancouver is home to the most populated and diverse neighbourhoods in Vancouver, with

80 percent from racialized populations.

The report found that inequity exists in South Vancouver and residents' concern echoed

that of the Neighbourhood Houses about lack of access to social amenities, services

and programs in the neighbourhood that affect the daily lives of the community.

The Neighbourhood Houses have worked hard to support residents. However, they do not

have the capacity or resources to meet all the needs of the community. Therefore,

this forum is an important opportunity for community members to discuss how we can

all work together to make South Vancouver safer, more accessible and inviting for

all.

At the forum, stakeholders can examine their analysis of the social infrastructure

available in South Vancouver and see the areas that have been overlooked and need

attention.

I'm proud to share this community initiative and to represent a community whose members

are dedicated and passionate about creating improvement that will benefit everyone

who resides in South Vancouver.

DEVYN GALE

D. Clovechok: A week ago or so, a colleague of mine mentioned the tragic deaths that occurred this

past summer during the fire season. Today I want to speak about one of those people

who was a constituent of mine.

Nineteen-year-old Devyn Gale was a remarkable young woman who gave her life to protect

British Columbians in her home of Revelstoke during the worst wildfire season in B.C.

history.

Devyn was in her third year with the B.C. Wildfire Service, where her younger brother

and sister also joined her as firefighters. Together the siblings became known by

their colleagues as the Gale Force.

Devyn was kind, thoughtful and a compassionate young woman who had so much potential

and promise. She had recently completed her second year of bachelor of science in

nursing program at the University of British Columbia. Between her work as a firefighter

and a future career path as a nurse, it was clear that Devyn was passionate about

giving back to British Columbians.

She had a full life outside of the Wildfire Service and was incredibly active through

her love of competitive swimming, casual swims in glacial lakes and her passion for

gymnastics. Her talent for training and competing in trampoline gymnastics brought

her to the Elite Canada 2020 national championship competition as she established

herself as a top competitor in British Columbia.

Her favourite flowers were purple lilacs, while her favourite tree was the western

cedar. She could often be found enjoying time in nature and exploring tide pools.

She always strove to enrich the lives of those around her. That's just who she was.

I, along with the Premier and the Minister of Forests, had the honour to attend a

memorial service in Revelstoke. My thoughts and deepest condolences are still with

her family, her friends, her loved ones as they continue to mourn this heart-wrenching

loss. Devyn was an incredible young woman, who was taken far too soon.

She gave her life to protect others, and I know that her family knows how appreciative

we all are for her selfless sacrifice. We will never forget her sacrifice, and her

name is now forever recorded in the history of this special place.

May God hold you close, Devyn.

Ministerial Statements

RESPONSE TO ATTACK ON ISRAEL BY

HAMAS AND ACTION ON ANTI-SEMITISM

Hon. D. Eby: We're all here today with heavy hearts. It was just over a week ago that the world

watched with horror the attacks of Hamas terrorists on Israelis in towns, kidnapping

hostages; killing moms, dads, babies; young people gunned down at a music festival

that was celebrating peace.

Among those young people was Ben Mizrachi from Vancouver. He was just 22 years old.

He was getting ready to go to university. He had his whole life ahead of him. He was

described by his friends and family as a person with a big smile and a wonderful heart.

During his last moments, we're told that instead of running from the very obvious

danger, he ran towards it to help other people who were injured. Ben was trained as

a medic, and he used that training as a medic to tend to the wounded before he was

murdered. A true hero.

[2:00 p.m.]

I can't imagine the grief that Ben's friends and family and loved ones are living

with right now. Our thoughts and prayers are with them and all of the families of

the victims during this unimaginable grief.

It's not often that we can be in this Legislature and speak in a legislature with

one voice. But I believe today is one of those days. There can be no justification

for the brutality and terror Hamas visited on innocent victims — none.

For our friends, family and neighbours in B.C.'s Jewish community, this is an incredibly

frightening time. It brings back the stories generations of Jewish families have told

their kids about — Russian attacks against Jews in the 19th and early 20th century

and Nazi death squads going house to house indiscriminately killing every Jewish person

they could find. Members of the Jewish community are asking a dreadful question: what

happened to "never again"?

As my friend and colleague the Minister of Post-Secondary and Future Skills said last

week about these horrific attacks by Hamas: "This is not a path to peace, and it is

not a path to freedom. The Palestinians and the Israelis deserve to raise their families

without fear, to grow old with dignity, but this vicious depravity is not the answer.

It is not a path to peace for anyone."

I just want to note that the minister has been a lifeline for so many these past few

days, a constant source of leadership in the community, solidarity within the Jewish

community in B.C. and has provided guidance to so many non-Jewish community leaders

as well. She's done all this through hours and days of fear for her own family and

extended friends.

Please join me in thanking her for her work for the community.

It should be obvious, but let's all be clear. Hamas is a terrorist organization. It's

one founded on the belief that Israel and Jewish people should be wiped off the map.

They are advocates for genocide. Anyone who attempts to contradict this basic truth

should rightfully be denounced in this place and everywhere.

But let's be clear about something else. Hamas does not represent the Palestinian

people — not in Gaza, not in the West Bank. They don't represent our Palestinian friends

and neighbours living here in British Columbia. In 2007, Hamas took control of the

Gaza Strip by force. They slaughtered Palestinians in their takeover. Since then,

Hamas has not allowed a single free or fair election in Gaza for Palestinians to choose

the future that they want. That says a lot.

Right now Palestinians in British Columbia who want peace are very worried about their

family members back home. Hundreds are being killed in military airstrikes, many of

them innocent civilians, women and children. Hundreds of thousands more are cut off

from basic services. As we speak, over one million Palestinian civilians have been

ordered to leave their homes in northern Gaza. It's a humanitarian catastrophe.

Many of us also know that Lebanese and Syrians here in B.C. who are worried about

the impact of this war in an escalating conflict and what it might mean for their

families. We can all unite around a common value: that innocent civilians must be

protected and that human life is precious.

As members of a provincial legislature, there's only so much influence we have on

global events, foreign affairs and diplomacy around the world. But what we must do

is make sure that people feel safe and secure right here at home in British Columbia

— safe and secure in their homes, their communities and their places of worship.

Many in the Jewish community are looking over their shoulders right now. They're being

threatened with violence here in our province. After attending a vigil for Israelis

dead last week, two Jewish women in Vancouver were threatened with murder and sexual

assault. A few days later Jewish schools and daycares were threatened with international

violence, some of them closing their doors.

Right here in B.C. — parents deciding whether or not to send their kids to daycare,

to school, wondering when they'd be safe. Our most precious, our most innocent — threatened

with hate and violence.

Over the weekend, disturbingly, more hateful acts in Surrey: a synagogue vandalized,

a swastika painted on the wall of the gathering centre.

These terrible acts and threats would be unacceptable on any day, but right now they

are a deliberate attempt to spread terror among families.

We will stand up and hold together, and with one voice we will say no to this hate.

There is no place for anti-Semitism in B.C. There is no place for any form of hatred

in B.C. No one should feel unsafe in our province because of who they are, what God

they worship or who they love.

[2:05 p.m.]

When Vladimir Putin illegally invaded Ukraine, it was British Columbians who responded

by sending medical supplies to innocent civilians caught in the conflict. It was British

Columbians who opened their homes, communities and places of worship to welcome those

fleeing the violence. That is who we are.

This is a time of great tragedy and heartbreak for so many British Columbians. Let

us listen to them. Let us react with compassion, with love. As members of this Legislature,

let's work in our communities to bring people together with a common goal of peace.

Let's work towards peace in every community, in every neighbourhood, so that together

British Columbians can ensure a safe and welcoming place for everyone during this

crisis. That is who we are, and that is who we must continue to be.

M. Lee: I rise to speak on behalf of the official opposition to express our deepest sympathies

to the Jewish community, to condemn the heinous and barbaric terrorist crimes committed

against innocent civilians by the Hamas, to express unwavering support for Israel

and her right to exist and to defend herself, and to continue to stand with the Jewish

community against hate and anti-Semitism in all its forms.

We need to be very clear about the terrorist attacks by Hamas on October 7. The barbaric,

horrific and violent attacks by Hamas, with the killing, torture, rape and mutilation

of elderly people, children, babies, women and young people are crimes against humanity.

We must also honour the memories of those Israelis that were killed, for example,

those innocent young people at the Nova Music Festival slaughtered by Hamas as they

partied, gunned down as they fled through open fields and murdered as they hid and

prayed in bomb shelters.

Last week, we learned that Ben Mizrachi was just 22 years old, from Vancouver, and

was one of the lives senselessly taken from us by the Hamas. Ben was a student at

Vancouver Hebrew Academy and King David High School, both situated in Vancouver-Langara.

I've heard from so many about how Ben has touched their lives with his kindness, his

always-present smiles and his friendship. He was a leader amongst his classmates and

his community and was always known for doing what is right, standing up for what is

right, including for Israel. Even in the last moments of his life, Ben did the right

thing, running back with first-aid equipment to help others, as a medic, in the face

of the Hamas attack.

Ben is just one of the over 1,400 lives lost at the hands of the Hamas. May all their

memories be as a blessing.

This horrific tragedy touches us all, from Jerusalem all the way to B.C. Yoav Shimoni

in Kamloops found video uploaded to Facebook by terrorists using his grandmother's

phone of a murder in a small community not far from the Gaza border.

We continue to call for the release of the nearly 200 hostages so cruelly taken from

their families and loved ones on October 7 — babies, senior citizens, parents, sons

and daughters, and Noya, a 12-year-old girl with autism — who right now are all being

forcibly confined, scared and held by Hamas terrorists.

I raise Noya's name and Ben Mizrachi's and Yoav Shimoni's because we cannot allow

ourselves to be desensitized — a hostage, a victim and a grieving family member. Noya,

Ben and Yoav are all people. You don't have to be Jewish to care. You don't have to

be Israeli to care. You just have to be human. We stand in solidarity with Israel

and the Jewish community because no human should look at these atrocities by the Hamas

and try to justify them.

[2:10 p.m.]

Last Tuesday I was honoured to stand with the Leader of the Official Opposition in

solidarity with Israel and the Jewish people along with thousands of others at the

Jack Poole Plaza. The Leader of the Official Opposition cancelled his plans for a

town hall in Kamloops, hopped in his car and drove straight back in order to attend

and show his support.

His remarks were crystal clear. Now is not the time for silence. People are suffering.

People are scared. To not speak up, to not condemn these savage acts and injustices

as a failure of one's commitment to civil society and to human rights….

This gathering was a strong expression of support by the broader community, including

members of the Persian community, standing side by side with members of the Jewish

community. We've seen this support at other gatherings around the province, including

here in Victoria; Prince George, with my colleague the member for Prince George–Valemount;

and in White Rock last night, which my colleague the member for Surrey–White Rock

attended with myself.

This is such a critical time. We need to provide clear and unequivocal support for

Israel and the Jewish community. The leadership of Hamas called for a day of unrest

all around the world, and again, many did not speak out.

We must not make a mistake. What this is, and what we've witnessed, is a pogrom in

every sense of the definition. I was disgusted to see that some in our province would

take to the streets to celebrate a pogrom, to cheer on the deaths of hundreds of innocent

civilians at the hands of terrorists, denying Israel's right to exist and refusing

to condemn the acts of terror against civilians. It was sickening.

Such hate-filled rallies that took place in our province do not represent B.C. We

are committed to human rights and building a province where everyone can feel safe

and at home. Clear and unequivocal condemnation is how we show not just the Jewish

community, but all who call this province home, that British Columbia is not a place

for hate or intolerance.

I know that for so many members of the Jewish community, this is all still very raw,

including with ongoing concerns about family members and friends in Israel. We are

seeing the highest rise in anti-Semitism in 50 years in Canada. A terrible incident

of anti-Semitism occurred last Friday evening at Shabbat in Surrey, where the home

of a local rabbi, Rabbi Schtroks, was desecrated with eggs and painted with a swastika.

In this House, when we talk about "never again," we all post messages about that.

As I do that, and participate in other commemorations of the Holocaust, I never thought

we would come back to this day, what happened on October 7. Many in the Jewish community

have told me that they are not feeling safe. Parents and families are making difficult

decisions on sending their children to schools with heightened worries.

This past Sunday morning, yesterday, I was on my way to a meeting at Temple Sholom

in my riding of Vancouver-Langara. As we've seen with so many other synagogues, community

centres and schools across British Columbia…. We've seen the presence of police, but

we've also seen the presence of security guards, which has been an ongoing challenge

for the Jewish community. Every day, community members are concerned about their safety

and the rise of anti-Semitism in our province.

Yesterday, as I approached Temple Sholom, crossing the street, I saw a police car

and two security guards in yellow jackets. As I approached, a third guard in a yellow

jacket started running towards me. I thought: "Well, I apologize if I've done something

wrong to alert or scare anyone here."

To my surprise, this person is a mother who is actually a lead staffer of a major

Jewish community organization in Vancouver who has children attending class at the

synagogue. She came running up to me to greet me. In the embrace, to express deep

sympathies, there were very few words. I think it just demonstrates the fear and the

concern that parents and families live in currently across British Columbia.

[2:15 p.m.]

We are grateful to all the police agencies throughout our country and British Columbia

who have made a visible presence outside of Jewish schools, synagogues, community

centres and other institutions. I know the members of the Jewish community are truly

grateful for that.

But I'm very concerned about anti-Semitism that Jewish students are experiencing in

their schools and online. The Jewish community in Canada has been a principal ally

to so many other fights against racism, including anti-Asian hate. In the face of

anti-Semitism, we must stand with the Jewish community so that they do not endure

this alone.

Now is the time for clear leadership. The Jewish community needs that across all levels

of government and across party lines. We cannot be silent.

That's why it's so vital that all leaders — community leaders, business leaders, social

activists, elected officials — stand together in the face of terror, denounce this

pogrom and demonstrate our unwavering solidarity and support for the Jewish people,

not just in Israel but here in B.C. and all around the world as well.

S. Furstenau: We all have heavy hearts indeed. I appreciate and I'm grateful for the comments of

the Premier and the member for Vancouver-Langara.

We are all united in unequivocally condemning the terror attack carried out by Hamas

against Israeli citizens. The targeting of civilians and the taking of hostages violates

fundamental principles of international law and represents a shocking violation of

the norms and rules by which we live. I echo the call made by the member for Vancouver-Langara

that Hamas release all hostages immediately.

I express my deepest condolences to those affected by the attack, those who have lost

family and friends and those who have been injured, those grappling with uncertainty,

fear and terror in the aftermath of this horrific event. I acknowledge the impact

that this has had and will continue to have on Jewish communities in British Columbia,

all of whom are in my thoughts.

In particular, my thoughts are with the family and all those who knew Ben Mizrachi,

a leader in Vancouver's Jewish community, and with the families of the other Canadians

who have been killed and who are missing. It's devastating to think of the pain that

these families are enduring.

Terrorism as

an act aims to frighten and divide us. It seeks an emotional response,

one led by anger rather than empathy. I urge all of us not to let anger and hatred

win but to remain unified and focused on peace.

The acts of hate and anti-Semitism against Jewish people here in B.C. cannot and must

not be tolerated. They are unacceptable.

I acknowledge, too, the growing humanitarian crisis in Gaza and the impact on Palestinian

citizens. Withholding of food, water, health care and other essential supplies is

contrary to both moral justice and international law. The civilian Palestinian population

of Gaza, 50 percent of whom are children, are entitled to safety and security. I urge

governments to work together to ensure that Gaza has access to essential resources

and to focus on the diplomatic solutions that can bring an end to the escalation of

violence.

Within British Columbia and, especially, within this House, I urge all of us to be

focused on ensuring the safety of all who reside here and to do all that we can to

prevent hate, anti-Semitism, Islamophobia and violence in all of its forms.

[2:20 p.m.]

In particular, I ask all people within British Columbia to ensure that we are doing

what we can to commit to non-violence and to acknowledge the inherent humanity of

both Israeli and Palestinian civilians, of Jewish and Muslim people.

B. Banman: I would like to thank the words from those that have spoken before me.

This past Friday and Saturday, we watched in absolute horror as Hamas terrorists published

vile disturbing videos of rape, torture, murder and kidnapping of Israeli civilians

of cowardice and profound evil by radicalized men full of hate who chose to prey on

vulnerable innocents, on an auspicious Jewish holiday, no less.

I want to express my most heartfelt condolences to those innocent civilians, their

families and the Jewish community in British Columbia, in Canada, in Israel and across

the world.

I also want to take a moment to specifically express condolences to the families and

friends of Canadians who have been murdered by Hamas terrorists in Israel and for

all of the innocent civilians who have been killed in the past week.

May their memories be a blessing.

Over the course of history, Jewish people have been persecuted. They have been maligned,

and they have been murdered for their very identity — for their faith. I want to be

unequivocal. We believe in Israel's right to exist and its right to defend itself.

Now more than ever, it is clear that the Jewish people must have the ability to control

their own destiny. Every single death of an innocent human being, regardless of their

colour or creed, is a profound tragedy.

Without reservation, we denounce every celebration that occurred after the attack

on Israel and Jewish people by Hamas terrorists. It is profoundly wrong and deeply

disturbing to watch people across the world, and especially here in B.C., celebrate

the rape, the murder and the torture of women, children, and the elderly by Hamas

terrorists.

British Columbians are better than this. We are all better than this, and now, more

than ever, we need to fill our hearts with love and peace and search for that. The

world desperately needs it now, more than ever.

Mr. Speaker: Members, I ask the House to observe a moment of reflection.

[The House observed a moment of reflection.]

[2:25 p.m.]

Oral Questions

GOVERNMENT ACTION ON HOUSING

AFFORDABILITY AND HOUSING TARGET

T. Stone: The Premier's empty promises have trapped British Columbians in the NDP's middle-class

squeeze, with soaring rents and unreachable home ownership.

After two elections and seven years of broken promises, the Premier released weak

and delayed housing targets that don't even meet basic CMHC guidelines for affordability.

These weak targets are a recipe to maintain the NDP's new normal, which is the highest

rents in all of Canada and the worst housing affordability in North America.

Why did the Premier blatantly ignore CMHC guidelines on housing affordability when

he came up with such weak housing targets?

Hon. R. Kahlon: We've talked about this many times in this House.

We know that we have a real challenge when it comes to housing in British Columbia.

Two decades of underinvestment in housing. We've seen inflation, global inflation

impacts. We've seen a record number, 240,000, of people come to British Columbia to

seek opportunity because we have one of the strongest economies in the country. With

that comes some challenges when it comes to housing.

We've set targets for the first ten communities. We believe they are both aggressive

and, with proper measures, doable for communities, but it's the minimum. Seventy-five

percent is the minimum they must reach.

These are net targets. These are not housing starts compared to what some in the media

have characterized as housing starts from one community to housing starts…. We're

saying housing starts to include, also, net new housing that needs to be in communities.

A recognition that we must build more housing.

Mr. Speaker: Opposition House Leader, supplemental.

T. Stone: Well, the minister can try to distract and point his finger here, there and everywhere.

His government's housing targets are already a monumental fail.

The news flash, also, for the minister should be this. NDP announcements and empty

promises won't fix the housing crisis. Only building more homes will.

Now, in the words of Peter Waldkirch, from Abundant Housing Vancouver: "This number

won't make a dent in the housing crisis, and it's time to go back to the drawing board."

The fact of the matter is that B.C. needs over 600,000 new homes by 2030 to give people

a break from the NDP's middle-class squeeze.

Why is the Premier insisting on weak housing targets that not only fail to solve the

housing crisis but worsen the NDP's new normal, which, again, is the highest rents

in all of Canada and the worst housing affordability in North America?

Hon. R. Kahlon: Again, we know it's a challenging time for many in our communities throughout the

province. This is not a challenge that only B.C. is dealing with. It's a challenge

that's being felt by jurisdictions across North America.

What we've done is taken steps to put strong targets in place. We have announced the

first ten communities. We've set targets for all those ten communities.

The members from Kamloops will know…. Their community believes that these are tough

targets to meet. If you talk to the members from Abbotsford, they'll tell you…. Their

community will tell you these are tough targets to meet. The members from Victoria,

from Saanich, etc.…

We set these tough targets because we know that in order to address the housing challenges

we're dealing with, it's going to require all communities to be part of the solution

— not just the first ten, but all communities to be part of the solution.

SUPPORTIVE HOUSING SERVICES

AND SAFETY AT NORTH VANCOUVER SITE

K. Kirkpatrick: The NDP's failures on housing have had a disastrous human impact, made worse by this

Premier choosing to warehouse the homeless without adequate supports.

The Travelodge on Marine Drive in North Vancouver is a glaring example of this. I've

heard countless concerns from neighbours and families horrified by the open and unsupervised

drug use and rising vandalism.

Now, this is despite my letter to the minister in June and my multiple follow-ups

to that letter. It has been ignored. It proposed potential solutions.

Why is the Premier allowing such lawlessness and danger to fester at the Travelodge

and ignoring pleas for more supports?

Hon. R. Kahlon: When we talk about the housing crisis…. Of course, there are different impacts on

different people. Everyone, we know, needs different types of housing in this type

of environment.

We had a question about the targets not being tough enough. We have a member, from

West Vancouver, standing up and asking questions about housing. She should also know

that her community got targets. They believe that the targets are too aggressive and

that they won't be able to reach their targets.

Part of the targets is a recognition that the community needs to have shelter spaces.

They need to have supportive housing available for people. People are struggling,

and every community has to be part of the solution.

[2:30 p.m.]

I met with the West Vancouver mayor and council during UBCM. We talked about possible

solutions to address some of the challenges that they're facing in their community.

We're going to continue to work with them to solve that.

Mr. Speaker: West Vancouver–Capilano, supplemental.

K. Kirkpatrick: The minister is responding to something which is not related to the question I was

asking, with respect to housing targets in West Vancouver.

The NDP is systematically failing communities by warehousing people with severe mental

health and addictions issues without supports. Police have recommended 24-7 security

and secure entry systems at the Travelodge, which I also described in the letter I

sent in June, yet the NDP does nothing but stonewall the concerns of my community.

Neighbours have reached a breaking point. They report to me that people are dying

and being removed from the Travelodge in body bags. Now, we owe vulnerable British

Columbians better than that.

How many more people must suffer or die before the Premier acts to investigate this

colossal failure at the Travelodge in North Vancouver?

Hon. R. Kahlon: Again, we know there are people in our communities that are struggling and that need

support. That's why we had to take steps to move people into accommodation, whether

that be the Travelodge, whether that be buying a motel where there's no supportive

housing in place.

We're two decades behind. Communities have not stepped up to say: "Hey, we can build

this type of housing for people in our community."

Interjection.

Hon. R. Kahlon: I don't think this is a question that's worth heckling. I think we're having a good

discussion here, and I think we should keep it that way.

We know there are people struggling in our communities. That's why we took the steps

in that community to find ways to get people into shelter and to get them the supports

they need to get back on their feet.

Interjection.

Mr. Speaker: Please continue.

Hon. R. Kahlon: Thank you, hon. Speaker.

That's why we've taken the steps to try to get people into housing and to get them

the supports they need.

I met with the West Vancouver mayor and council. We talked about ways to create mitigation

strategies. We already have fencing there. We already have security there. We're going

to find other ways to continue to support vulnerable people but support the community

as well.

PAID PRACTICUMS FOR

STUDENT NURSES AND EDUCATORS

S. Furstenau: We're in a health care crisis. Critical staff shortages have led to unsafe nurse-to-patient

ratios. ER closures are happening across the province.

While the health care system crumbles, nursing students want to help pick up the pieces

in their clinical practicums. They contribute to patient care, but they are not compensated

for their labour. Nurses come out of school with significant debt, and many are working

additional jobs while in school to make ends meet.

To the Minister of Post-Secondary Education and Future Skills, the nursing profession

should be open to students of all economic backgrounds. Will this government ensure

nursing students are paid for their clinical practicums?

Hon. A. Dix: The fundamental importance of nursing is why 42 of the 70 initiatives in our health

human resources plan are about nursing. The significant increase in the number of

nurses this year, when you think of a net increase of 5,221 nurses this year….

Supports in the post-secondary system are significant. One aspect of that plan is,

for example, the significant increase in the employed student nurse program. Of course,

we will continue to work with partners.

Because of the significant actions we're taking on nursing, which are seeing real

results in every part of British Columbia…. Those significant actions have to continue,

and we will look at every program to see that it has improved to the maximum possible

extent.

The significant actions we have taken — in favour, especially, of student nurses,

not just in their programs but in housing — will continue, including the increase

of 602 nursing spaces this year.

Mr. Speaker: Leader of the Third Party, supplemental.

S. Furstenau: The Minister of Health likes to talk a lot about numbers. Here's one number; 760 hours

of unpaid work is what a nurse-in-training does in their practicum, 760 hours unpaid.

Industries dominated by women — education, nursing, early childhood education — receive

little to no support during their practicums. In fact, they have to pay for their

work experience. These areas are chronically understaffed, but those who want to be

in them face immense financial barriers.

Doctors, engineers, tradespeople and lawyers are justifiably paid for their apprenticeships,

practicums and internships, but those in women-dominated fields pay to do the important

training in their fields.

[2:35 p.m.]

My question is to the Minister of Post-Secondary Education and Future Skills. Will

she implement a system of paid practicums for nurses, educators and early childhood

educators?

Hon. A. Dix: The reason why we've added nursing programs is…. We need more nurses, and we need

to support nurses in B.C. It's why we've added them in every region of the province,

including in places such as Prince George and Fort St. John and other places in B.C.

It's why we've added employment programs for nurses that are delivering significant

numbers of new hours this year as part of a health human resources plan.

As I said to the hon. member, we will look at every program to ensure that we're providing

adequate support to nurses and to other health care workers as we meet the health

human resources challenges of today.

DRUG DECRIMINALIZATION PROGRAM

AND PROSECUTION OF DRUG TRAFFICKERS

J. Rustad: Drug dealers love this NDP government. In fact, the only problem drug dealers have

with the Premier is that this government is the biggest competition, with both safe

supply and their funding to the Drug Users Liberation Front to purchase drugs.

B.C.'s law enforcement officers tell me that decriminalization takes away a critical

tool used to catch drug dealers. It takes away their ability to seize users' drugs

to be used as evidence to go after dealers.

Could the Premier explain why this government has chosen to make life so easy for

drug dealers who peddle hard drugs that kill British Columbians?

Hon. J. Whiteside: Thank you to the member for the question. Our province, as with every other jurisdiction

in the country, is in the grips of an unrelenting public health emergency associated

with the toxic drug crisis. That crisis is taking thousands of lives of British Columbians

every year.

That is why we are scaling up — with our partners in the health sector, with our partners

in law enforcement, with our partners in community services and in municipalities

— strategies to intervene and to try to keep people alive, so that we can connect

them to the care and support and treatment that they need.

We are working across the whole continuum, including on our project related to working

with police with respect to decriminalization, to eliminate the stigma that prevents

people from reaching out for care and support. We're going to continue to do that

life-saving work.

Mr. Speaker: Fourth Party Leader, supplemental.

J. Rustad: Well, the issue is the tool being taken away from police officers to be able to catch

drug dealers.

According to the report by the Stanford Network on Addiction Policy profiling opioid

addictions in Alberta and British Columbia, B.C. has "very low volumes of active charges

in the case of drug supply, importation and trafficking." In fact, 82 percent of incidents

in Alberta result in a charge, while only 29 percent of drug crime incidents in B.C.

result in a charge.

Perhaps the Premier could explain to British Columbians why this province, under the

NDP's leadership, is so renowned for being lax on drug dealers, traffickers and importers.

Hon. N. Sharma: Thanks for the question. What I can say is that public safety and the safety of British

Columbians is very important to this government. We have put serious investments into

Crown counsel across this province. As the member likely knows, Crown counsel makes

independent decisions on their charges.

Last week I was in Quebec, with a meeting of all Ministers of Public Safety and Attorneys

General across this province, advocating for stronger tools for our bail reform and

our repeat offenders initiatives to make sure that Crown counsel and our justice system

have the tools that they need to respond to the pressing challenges of today.

We'll continue to invest in the resources we need to make sure that we can increase

public safety in this province. It's something we take very seriously.

GOVERNMENT ACTION ON HOMELESSNESS

T. Halford: British Columbians are stuck with the highest rents in Canada and the worst housing

affordability in North America under this NDP's new normal.

In Surrey alone, homelessness has shot up by 76 percent since 2017. On Friday, I heard

directly from a 75-year-old woman who asked if she could park in front of my office.

Her car is where she lives, and she doesn't feel safe.

[2:40 p.m.]

My question is to the Premier. How much longer will the people of Surrey have to endure

the NDP's new normal of record high homelessness?

Hon. R. Kahlon: Certainly, we have seen, not only in British Columbia but across North America, a

rise in homelessness coming out of the pandemic. This is not a challenge that only

we are dealing with, but it's a challenge that we are seeing across North America.

We have made significant investments to try to get people back into housing, try to

get them the supports they need, the wraparound supports they need, so that they can

get back into market rent, get back into employment.

We've seen some success, but there are still a lot of people struggling. That's why

taking steps like we did today around short-term rentals is another step to get more

housing back on the market.

I met with a couple in Abbotsford living in an RV. They are both working full-time

jobs but couldn't afford a place to live. They're seeing people buying three, four

or five homes as investment properties and saying: "That's not fair."

We need access to housing. That's why we took the step we did today, and we're going

to take a lot more steps to address the challenges we have ahead of us.

T. Wat: Seven years, two elections and the NDP have delivered the highest level of homelessness

in B.C. history.

In Richmond, this NDP disaster means homelessness has more than doubled: up 131 percent

since 2017. Nobody, nobody feels safe in Richmond anymore, yet the NDP government

MLAs remain completely silent. Not even one word.

How much longer will the people of Richmond be subjected to the NDP's new normal of

the exploding homelessness crisis?

Hon. R. Kahlon: I appreciate the member's question. I met with Richmond councillors at UBCM. They

didn't raise that everybody in the community is not feeling safe. They did talk about

people that are homeless and the fact that they need some more supports. I think that's….

I hope that's what the member was implying about safety — that there are vulnerable

people in our communities, and we need more housing.

We've taken steps in Richmond to bring 514 units of affordable housing online for

people. Two decades of lack of investment for the vulnerable people in our communities.

For a time here, we had a Minister of Housing on the other side who said: "If you

can't afford it, just move."

We're not saying that to people. We're saying that if this is your community, if this

is where your family members are, then we're going to work with you to get affordable

housing for you in your place where you live. We're taking a different approach than

has been taken by previous government.

T. Shypitka: The NDP's new normal has British Columbians dealing with the highest levels of homelessness

in B.C.'s history.

In Cranbrook, this means a 300 percent increase in homelessness since 2018. Seven

years, two elections and what we get under this NDP's rules and mandates are downtown

cores that are crumbling.

How can the Premier possibly try to justify a 300 percent increase in homelessness

as a new normal in Cranbrook?

Hon. R. Kahlon: As I said to the previous member, this is a challenge we're seeing across North America.

Every single city, every single community is seeing numbers go up coming out of the

pandemic, combined with mental health challenges and combined with a toxic drug supply

that's making it even harder for people that are struggling to recover.

All these challenges are what we're dealing with on the front lines. That's why we're

making the investments we're making. The community, Cranbrook, that he mentioned —

his community…. He'll know that there's been a significant amount of affordable housing

units that have opened up in this community. His local mayor and council welcomed

those investments, and those investments just have not been happening.

Over the last two decades, there was little to no investment being made in communities

to build affordable housing. We're going to continue this work. We're going to bring

in things like short-term rentals to get more housing stock online. We're going to

take other steps, which are coming with legislation, to get more housing supply, so

that we can get people the homes that they need.

S. Bond: What British Columbians want from this Premier and this minister are a whole lot less

words and a whole lot more action.

Seven years, two elections and the NDP's housing failures are glaring whether you

live in Prince George or Delta. In fact, it was unbelievable recently to hear this

minister lay the blame on my community in Prince George when it's his responsibility

to ensure there's housing for people in British Columbia.

[2:45 p.m.]

Perhaps he needs to take a minute and look in the mirror, because in his own community

of Delta, homelessness has skyrocketed by 132 per cent since 2017.

It's time for the Premier to get up and take accountability for the highest levels

of homelessness in British Columbia's history. I'm counting on him to stand up and

do that today.

Hon. R. Kahlon: I appreciate the question from the member. The member raises Prince George and says

that I blame the community. Here are some words I want to share with the member:

"What is most disappointing about the decision is that the city of Prince George seemed

to be moving in the right direction. In June, the city and the province came together

to sign a memorandum of understanding focused on addressing the community's escalating

housing crisis. Then, at the end of August, without explanation, the city rejected

these much-needed resources and opted for a trajectory of needless trauma."

These are not my words. These are the words of Regional Chief Terry Teegee talking

about how we finally had everybody at the table on a path forward to ensure that the

community was safer and the most vulnerable people had the supports they need. The

city of Prince George, on a surprise announcement, at an in-camera meeting, changed

that direction.

Now, I'm grateful that we got a chance to meet with them to have a conversation about

how we get things moving again. But we were on a path to address challenges in that

community. It's disappointing that they chose a different path.

D. Davies: The NDP just don't get it. Homelessness is worse than ever, and everything we've been

hearing the minister say today isn't working, all while British Columbians suffer

through the highest rents in Canada and the worst affordability in North America.

Even in my community of Fort St. John, we've seen an increase of 67 percent in homelessness.

Seven years, two elections, and communities such as Parksville and Qualicum are being

crushed by the NDP's failures. A staggering 145 percent increase in homelessness.

How much more suffering will it take for the Premier to admit that the NDP's new normal

of record high homelessness in Parksville and in Qualicum is an abysmal failure?

Hon. R. Kahlon: Certainly, I do appreciate that the opposition now is talking about homelessness.

I do appreciate that now they've discovered this is an important issue that should

be discussed in this chamber, because on this side of the House, we've been fighting

for the most vulnerable people for the entire time when we were in opposition and

when we're in government.

It's almost as if they just woke up to the fact that there are people in our community

that have been struggling, not just now but have been struggling for a long time.

Interjections.

Hon. R. Kahlon: Oh, they say it only started seven years ago, because before the 16 years they were

in government, there was no homelessness. There were no issues.

The member will know that in his community, we've opened 92 affordable housing units.

I would challenge that member to go back to see the previous 16 years if there were

any affordable housing units open in his community.

We're going to continue to do what we need to do to invest in communities and to invest

in affordable housing for the most vulnerable people in our province.

L. Doerkson: While some of the members of our government choose to laugh here this afternoon, I

can assure you that no one in Cariboo-Chilcotin finds this funny.

Seven years and two elections and the NDP failures are glaring. Under the Premier's

watch, homelessness is spiralling out of control. Right in my own backyard, Williams

Lake has had a shocking 79 percent increase in homelessness since 2018. For the people

of the Comox Valley, homelessness has more than doubled, a 132 percent increase, and

still no word from the NDP MLA.

Why is the Premier expecting the people of Williams Lake and Comox Valley to settle

for the NDP's new normal of record high homelessness?

Hon. R. Kahlon: I met with the mayor of Williams Lake just recently at UBCM. He appreciated the fact

that we've already made significant investments in his community, opening up affordable

housing. He knows more are in the way, coming in the process right now.

[2:50 p.m.]

We're going to continue to do that in communities in Williams Lake and communities

across the province, because we know that it's going to require government to make

investments to build these types of affordable housing.

That wasn't here. That wasn't the playbook in this province before we formed government.

There was a saying that they would just leave it to somebody else to solve it. Somehow

the market would solve the problem. It's not the case. It's going to require government

investments. We're building the foundation of the supports communities need.

Now, the member mentioned Comox. We are also making investments in Comox. We are also

making investments in Courtenay. Talk to the mayor of Courtenay, and he'll tell you

that no government has made the level of investments in his community that we have

been making. We're going to continue to do that.

E. Ross: In the last seven years, all the issues facing B.C. are characterized now as crisis.

It doesn't matter what you mention. Housing, homelessness specifically, is described

as a crisis.

No matter how many announcements you make, the results are worse.

The NDP's failures are obvious all across the province as homelessness skyrockets

from one community to the next. In just one year, Terrace has seen an increase of

46 percent in homelessness. But wait. Smithers outdid us. Theirs is a staggering 97

percent increase in homelessness. Let's not forget Prince Rupert, where homelessness

has soared by 106 percent. Silence from the NDP MLAs representing those regions —

their own representatives that should be advocating in this room, in this House, on

this floor, in this chamber.

Can the Premier tell people in Terrace, Smithers and Prince Rupert, how much longer

they have to put up with the NDP's new normal of record-high homelessness?

Hon. R. Kahlon: I'll start by saying that I am so proud of my colleagues. Every single day I have

colleagues coming to my office saying: "We need this in my community. We need more

affordable housing. We need more supportive housing." Why? Because we know there are

great challenges in communities.

We also have members from the opposition who come and advocate for that, which is

great, because I think we all need to work together to get that type of housing built.

The member talks about Terrace. He should know — and he knows; I do know he knows

— that we have taken steps to open affordable housing in his community, both with

the local nations, and also, when there are emergencies in the community, we've taken

steps to get emergency housing available for people so they wouldn't be in vulnerable

situations. We can avoid them being homeless.

I know members understand that. I know it's a challenging time for people and communities.

That's why it's critical that we not only invest in more housing, but we also do things

like we did today with the short-term rentals: get more housing stock back on the

market so those that are working, that have money but can't access housing, have an

opportunity to do so.

R. Merrifield: So $4.9 billion in affordable housing for low-income individuals, seniors and families;

6 percent of total housing stock in British Columbia for government-assisted housing

with various levels of support; 24,000 new units of affordable housing; 12,390 new

units of housing for seniors and people with special needs across the province; 6,900

housing units for the homeless or those at risk of homelessness; 3,000 units of housing

in the Downtown Eastside. Oh, wait, wait. That's our record.

Let's go to yours. The NDP's failures to combat homelessness are evident across the

Lower Mainland. Burnaby is grappling with a staggering 203 percent increase. North

Shore, not far behind, up 68 percent. New West is up by 53 percent, and the Tri-Cities

up by a whopping 73 percent. Langley and Vancouver have increases of 14 and 13 percent,

respectively.

When will the Premier acknowledge that these dire statistics are now his legacy?

Hon. R. Kahlon: I've already mentioned several times that it is certainly a challenging time not only

in B.C. but across North America.

Now, I really appreciate that member asking the question, because the member will

know that Thursday I was in her community making a significant announcement with the

mayor: 120 new supportive housing units coming to that community. The mayor said that

this was a significant and huge investment in the community. We agreed on….

Interjection.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Hon. R. Kahlon: Oh, he did. He did.

He also said that the additional supports, the HEARTH supports, the supports of coordinating

with bylaw officers, coordinating with mental health professionals, coordinating with

health professionals is exactly what his community needs.

[2:55 p.m.]

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Members, come to order.

Hon. R. Kahlon: In fact, the member was in the front row clapping, because she knew it was important

for her community.

[End of question period.]

Tabling Documents

Hon. K. Conroy: I respectfully present the approved guarantees and indemnities report for the fiscal

year ended March 31, 2023, in accordance with the Financial Administration Act,

section

72(8).

Orders of the Day

Hon. R. Kahlon: I call Motion 50 on the order paper.

Government Motions on Notice

MOTION 50 — MEMBERSHIP CHANGE TO

PARLIAMENTARY REFORM COMMITTEE

Hon. R. Kahlon: I move that Motion 50 with respect to membership on the Select Standing Committee

on Parliamentary Reform, Ethical Conduct, Standing Orders and Private Bills standing

in my name on the order paper:

[That Fin Donnelly replace Adam Walker as a member of the Select Standing Committee on Parliamentary Reform, Ethical Conduct,

Standing Orders and Private Bills.]

Motion approved.

Hon. R. Kahlon: I call Motion 51 on the order paper.

MOTION 51 — MEMBERSHIP CHANGES TO

FINANCE COMMITTEE

Hon. R. Kahlon: I move that Motion 51 with respect to membership on the Select Standing Committee

on Finance and Government Services standing in my name on the order paper:

[That Nicholas Simons replace Adam Walker , and that Coralee Oakes be added as a member of the Select Standing Committee on Finance and Government Services.]

Motion approved.

Hon. R. Kahlon: I call Motion 52 on the order paper.

MOTION 52 — MEMBERSHIP CHANGE TO

CROWN CORPORATIONS COMMITTEE

Hon. R. Kahlon: I move that Motion 52 with respect to membership on the Select Standing Committee

on Crown Corporations standing in my name on the order paper:

[That Nicholas Simons replace Adam Walker as a member of the Select Standing Committee on Crown Corporations.]

Motion approved.

Hon. R. Kahlon: I call Motion 53 on the order paper.

MOTION 53 — MEMBERSHIP CHANGE TO

PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE

Hon. R. Kahlon: I move that Motion 53 with respect to membership on Select Standing Committee on Public

Accounts standing in my name on the order paper:

[That Renee Merrifield be added as a member of the Select Standing Committee on Public Accounts.]

Motion approved.

Hon. R. Kahlon: In this chamber, I call second reading of Bill 31, Emergency and Disaster Management

Act.

In the Douglas Fir Committee Room, I call Committee of the Whole, Bill 27, Money Judgment

Enforcement Act.

[J. Tegart in the chair.]

Second Reading of Bills

BILL 31 — EMERGENCY AND DISASTER

MANAGEMENT ACT

(continued)

B. Stewart: It's an honour to stand up on a very important particular topic — the Emergency and

Disaster Management Act that was tabled in this House on October 4.

I think that one of the things that, in my time as being both an MLA as well as having

been through many crises in the province but, more importantly, back to 2003, when

we really saw some of the challenges that were faced by communities such as Kelowna

in terms of the damage caused by a wildfire that was allowed to burn and the cause

of what that meant to our community — 350-plus homes, 35,000 people evacuated, the

loss of the Kettle Valley trestles….

It was a devastating impact. Thank goodness we were able to divert and not have more

of the Kelowna area damaged.

[3:00 p.m.]

In my time, as I mentioned, since 2009, there's almost not a year that's gone by where

I have not seen the impact of fires. I know that fire has been in British Columbia

for as long as I've lived here. But I do think the situation is that when it comes

to dealing with something that is as important as emergency management and the disasters

that are caused by not only wildfires….

The fact is that they're even talking on the radio or TV today about another atmospheric

river. Well, let's hope that it's not the same as it was a couple of years ago and

we're faced with the flooding and the damage that occurred in November of 2021.

It's no question. This year speaks for itself. The evidence shows, and it will continue

to play out, that this is not only one of the worst wildfire seasons that we've had

in our lives, in the history of British Columbia, but it'll also be one of the most

expensive.

I think that what people are looking for in this particular change or legislation

is the fact that the government has their backs. Where are they going with this particular

piece of legislation? What do they want to do with it?

It does actually address some very good things that I think a lot of people and communities

are interested in — the fact that First Nations are being respected and asked for

their help and part of it. But the solution doesn't end there.

The solution is in every local government, whether it's the 160-plus municipalities,

27 regional districts and all of the people that work in those communities. They're

counting on leadership from the province. Sadly, I think that this particular piece

of legislation….

We as the former government, in 2017, recognized that there needed to be updates in

this. The problem is that the magnitude and the ferocity and the intensity that these

disasters and emergencies are happening at require us to work at a faster pace, with

more diligence, and recognize that the system that we had in place some 30 years ago

isn't keeping up with the changes.

There is a huge amount of changes that have to occur on the landscape. We're not going

to get it done in the next 12 months. We're probably not going to get it done in the

next decade or even two. However, we need to come up with solutions that are going

to help make these things change and happen.

I had the unfortunate experience, as did many of my colleagues that are in the area

— including yourself, Madam Chair — where we had a fire called the White Rock Lake

fire come through. I think that for most people…. When it started out, it was a modest

fire. There were people from Tolko, I believe, that were actually there when it was

told: "Stand down. Don't do anything." I'm thinking: "Well, that doesn't solve the

solution." We have a reality that it burned through….

We'd already had the fire in Lytton, for starters, which…. Having been there this

summer, I can assure you that for any of you that haven't visited Lytton, it's frightening.

It's scary to think that here a community could be completely razed in a matter of

a couple of hours and burned to the ground. It now stands completely vacant, with

a few structures that somehow, remarkably, survived. The fact that we have so many

people that want to rebuild…. They want to re-establish themselves. There are barriers

in the way of dealing with these things.

In my own community this year, we lost almost 350 structures, a number…. The magnitude

of dollars will be far in excess of what happened in the 2003 wildfire, 20 years earlier,

almost to the day. But the situation is that we're not…. Our planning and response

to this has to be much more dramatic and direct in terms of what it is that we're

trying to do and accomplish with this.

What I do see in this is that…. There are suggestions in this particular piece of

legislation that it's going to put an increased amount of responsibility on not only

the communities but the property owners, the people that have infrastructure — a rancher

that happens to have a dam up in the hills or maybe an irrigation pipe or something

like that.

[3:05 p.m.]

What if you're…? It's so easy to be impacted by this. The fact is that you now have

to take precautions.

I always remember when I first got elected. We had a dam failure in Testalinden Creek,

outside of Oliver.

It is important that we do get these things right, but the fact that the legislation

has been now introduced some six years after the government was elected, and the fact

that it was already prepared…. It's obviously been updated. The thing about this is

that it says that today, we're going to actually start the consultation now. I'm thinking:

"Well, what about the last six years?" Actually, almost seven years; maybe it is seven.

What happened to the consultation?

The bottom line is that sometimes governments do want to do things differently. But

the reality is we need to learn from those consultations where we can make changes

on the landscape that are going to really make the difference, not only fireproof

but make certain that we approach these things properly. I think that when it comes

to this particular act, probably the biggest benefit of Bill 31 is the fact that it

is more inclusive, but it does layer on a lot of added costs.

Now, I want to just tell you from my own community's experience this past year…. I

cautioned the ministry and the minister prior to us departing here in May of this

year about the fact that there were serious concerns on my part, having been through,

probably, almost a dozen wildfire interactions in Kelowna West since getting elected

in 2009. We've had thousands of people evacuated, and we've been able to deal with

them in a manner that was….

It wasn't a great system. It didn't have the checks and balances that government loves

to have. They want to make certain that all the boxes are ticked before we give you

a hotel room or give you a meal voucher. Sometimes the space is inappropriate, but

they download that onto the local government. They make it the responsibility of the

local EOC and the ESS to deliver on these things, but the rules come from Emergency

Management and Climate Readiness.

This bill is dealing with some of those accountabilities, but the bottom line is that

the failure in this particular disaster this year was the fact that they had a new

software system that was not only mandatory, but it was required that if you were

going to get any provisions from the government, you would end up getting through

this process.

Now, of course, I happened to be there not just once; many times. We saw that in the

first evening, there were about 60 people that were evacuated under an order. It grew

to 100. The next day it was at 10,700 plus. We were not prepared — none of the systems

that we had in place.

We had this silly accountability issue overriding the fact that we had seniors sleeping

in their cars because we didn't have the right rule book to get things out there.

And the fact that people slept in their cars, seniors….

I remember shepherding an 85-year-old lady over to the gentleman that was running

the ESS, and I said, "Mel, can we do something for this lady to get her out of her

car, etc.?" We were fortunate. Mel was very helpful in those particular regards, but

the system that was imposed by the government, which is rightfully so….

We want to be accountable, but the situation is that the system was not flexible enough.

It wasn't dynamic enough. It didn't really work in the benefit of British Columbians,

let alone the fact that…. Not the firefighting and all of those types of things. We're

just talking about these people that are evacuated. Where are they going to go to?

The next thing that happens is we have a state of emergency by the Premier. The next

day after that, we have an order to evacuate or get out of the hotels: "Don't come

to the area." This is one of how many fires in the region? But that's what happened

across British Columbia.

I can show you documentation that I've received from the tourist industry, not just

in the Okanagan but across British Columbia. The impacts of taking such a sweeping

kind of action like that — not thoughtful. The fact is that it didn't have any of

the elasticity that needs to be there to make these things work.

[3:10 p.m.]

I know that there are an awful lot of questions that still have to be answered in

terms of this. It is a huge bill. I mean, I think that it's somewhere around 120 pages

long, and it's 205 sections long. It's going to take some time to get through that.

The reality is we do want to get it right. We know the consultation is ongoing, but

the situation is that we have to be alive to these things. We have to make certain

that we're moving ahead, and we have to make certain we're moving ahead in terms of

being a team.

I say that meaning we can't have the provincial government and the local governments

being at odds with one another, not having the supports, not having the clarity and

the flexibility that they need to have when it comes to being able to make adjustments

in a program. We did make the adjustments, but it took days and days and calls and

the minister and I working on that. That's because we were inflexible. We didn't realize

we didn't have a way to pivot and change to make something work that wasn't working,

on a temporary basis.

Just last night was the end of the fact that…. The emergency management had allowed

for people that were evacuated for the first seven days and did not get processed

with hotels and rooms…. By midnight last night, they had to make their claim to EMBC

or EMCR. They had to do that so that they could essentially get reimbursed for a lot

of the out-of-pocket costs. The problem was the system that we had adopted and it's

inflexibility and the fact that the authority didn't lie with the local people to

make any of those changes to get on, and swiftly move to, a paper-based system.

They did do that, but it was painful, and it shouldn't be that way. We should be looking

for solutions in the long term. I'm glad that this is being brought forward. However,

I do think that the consultation has been something that could have easily been started.

I know that in 2017, there were a lot of fires in the North and the Cariboo, places

like that, and there was some compensation given under disaster financial assistance.

I'm not exactly certain how it was distributed, but it was….

I thought that that was a learning moment, where we kind of thought: "You know what?

We've got to do things differently." Well, it didn't happen, and we had fires again,

as I mentioned, in 2021. But we had many other ones in between. The reality is that

we're processing and putting people through these, I would say, atrocious processes

that aren't functioning. They're not making things work.

I really think that these changes in this particular act need to come forward in a

swift manner. I realize that some of these will be the part of government regulations,

etc., but the reality is that we need to accept that we're not doing a good enough

job. We need to do better. We're on the same team. These are British Columbians. We've

got to look out for them.

I mentioned, on a positive note, that we welcome the inclusion of

part 3 of the legislation,

specifically concerning agreements with Indigenous governing bodies. These changes

respect self-determination and the use of Indigenous governing bodies as defined in

DRIPA and recognize the rights of Indigenous peoples in relation to emergency management.

Now, how many times did we hear that we didn't talk to locals? I mentioned the White

Rock Lake fire. I have firsthand knowledge of people that were in my riding. They

came in, and B.C. Wildfire Service said: "We don't want any local help. There are

no roads up there."

I drove those roads. There were all sorts of roads up there. There were access points

they didn't use because they didn't have that local knowledge, yet I had dozens of

people that lived in this area. Some of them had small sawmills. Their homes. They

lost their livelihoods because of the fact that what happened was they were ignored.

The fact is that members from the OKIB, just north of us, Byron Louis, the Chief….

They could have told all the B.C. wildfire people that this is the route to get to

Beau Park Road and help protect and put the proper fireguards in place. I guess, by

ignoring it, what ended up happening is that it came down. A couple of nights later,

we had a fire that came down and descended into Killiney Beach and Estamont and burned

85 structures. As well, my colleague to the north, in the Shuswap…. Lots of structures

lost there and Fraser-Nicola. It's just the type of thing….

[3:15 p.m.]

I know that in Kamloops–South Thompson, they also had structures in and around Monte

Lake. It's the type of stuff where that fire became so big, it was almost unbelievable.

But mind you, this year in the Peace River, I know that we've seen fires that nobody

could imagine could be that big.

The member for Peace River North and I were talking today. We were wishing that atmospheric

river was heading northeast, but it hasn't arrived, he tells me.

One of the things about some of the obligations being presented or suggested in Bill

31 is that it may place an undue burden on infrastructure workers that would apply

to privately and publicly owned networks, facilities, assets. We need to make certain

how they're better protected, how they're supported.

It's not good enough to have somebody that's responsible for a private water system

not have the resources and support to be able to make certain that that's protected.

I don't think it was contemplated, when a private operator built a water system for

a subdivision, that they were going to have to become firefighters and make certain

that the pump houses and reservoirs and pipelines and things like that — that critical

infrastructure — are protected.

We're fortunate in Kelowna West that that was a priority. Our new water treatment

facility that we have…. It's not online yet, but we've invested, as taxpayers of British

Columbia and federally, almost $90 million in that treatment plant. It's not operational

yet, and it was protected, but it burnt right to the side of the reservoir and the

facilities that are supposed to treat that. That's only the start of this.

We've got to look around. We're only one neighbourhood in amongst tens of thousands

in British Columbia. This particular act has got to do more, and it's got to be swifter.

One of the things that I mentioned about the issues we had in Kelowna West during

this particular wildfire system…. I think that one of the things that needs to be

able to happen in legislation is somehow we can make it so that practical, commonsense

solutions can be adopted early on. There are people that know these things. They understand,

but they're held back because of the rule book. We need to bring out that playbook,

and we need to make certain we get things done in a timely manner.

I don't want to dwell on the fact that the fire…. On Tuesday, we had a briefing, as

MLAs, with disaster financial assistance, B.C. Wildfire, the weather forecast centre.

They were predicting those high winds that took that fire from being two hectares

to where it is today, and it's a massive wildfire that jumped across Okanagan Lake

and went into Kelowna–Lake Country.

I don't know if there are other examples of that, although now that I've seen it happen,

I'm not certain that it's that impossible — that it can't skip and jump miles ahead.

I do think that that's one of the things that we need to be alive to. Our disasters

that we're having — an earlier and more aggressive response could help mitigate that.

I want to talk about the people that lost those 340-plus homes in Kelowna West this

year, and the ones lost up in the Shuswap. There was a similar number, up around 200

or whatever. A lot of these people, and I found that out in the White Rock Lake fire,

were in areas where people say: "Oh, you can buy insurance." Well, you know what?

That's not necessarily true. But we do allow them to build. We allow them to have

cabins on lakes on leases and stuff like that, because of the fact they say that you

can buy insurance. It might cost you more than the cabin is worth. What are we doing

to…?

It's now changing, because what's happening is that noose, if you want to call it,

around those properties is getting tighter and tighter and smaller. So people that

want to buy insurance, want to protect themselves, are literally financially forced

out of the equation, and it can't help. What are we doing about that? We don't want

to have to go to the federal government and say: "Listen, we need disaster financial

assistance."

What we're looking for is a system that encourages and helps support the fact that

people can carry the proper amount of insurance to make certain that they're taken

care of. But with rising housing prices….

[3:20 p.m.]

I can't help but think about a story I saw on Global last night about somebody that

was in the Sumas Flats. With the atmospheric river, the house went from being a couple

of million dollars in value down to zero because of the fact that there are landslides

and all sorts of other things. We can't take people's entire life savings and extinguish

it, because we are not prepared to do that.

We have to come up with a system. I would hope that Bill 31, although I don't see

it in there.... I want to make certain that we get to the point where people are incentivized

by this bill, Bill 31, and that we're making it so that people can find the means

to be able to get the insurance coverage or protection.

In the case of what we've had in the last few years, we have to do more than just

give them ESS help. That's not enough. The fact is that we are talking not ten houses

or 50; we're talking hundreds. Literally, this year in the province I don't know what

the total number is. The reality is that these people are not going to be able to

recover. What we're saying is: "You know what? You should have known better."

The bottom line is that there are four points in here. I'm just trying to find those

points about Bill 31. Resiliency, or making certain that we deal with the situations

where we take preparations — we have been doing that with FireSmart.

At UBCM, I had the opportunity to talk to the contractors that fireproofed a lot of

the area up in Kelowna West. There were individual pockets where they couldn't do

the work. They were told that those were private lands, not Crown lands. It wasn't

an area where you could.... They were essentially private lands, and we allowed those

forested areas to not be attended to.

I'm sorry, but that's just not the way it has got to work. We have to fireproof communities.

We have to do a job so that we can make certain that they are protected. When we do

go to fight, we've got to make certain that we fight with the ferocity that it's going

to take to contain and protect communities.

Then we have to make certain, if we have losses, that we have the right structural

programs. Then we have to make certain we've got resiliency, so that these people

can get back on their feet and don't get wiped out. That's what's happening with the

situation: disasters and wildfires that are only too numerous to talk about.

I'm sitting here looking at the fact that this consultation is taking place right

now, but it's expected to go for another couple of years, as Bill 31 points out. What

about next year? It's just around the corner. We're in October. What are we doing

to prepare for it?

I know there's talk about more people full-time and things like that. We have to make

some dramatic changes. If we don't get it right, let's fix it later on, but we've

got to work on the principle that what we're trying to do is make as informed a decision

as we can today, with the idea that while this review is going on, we're going to

do better. We're going to come back. We're going to do the public consultation, which

I'm sure this year will be extensive.

You know, these things are never easy, but the reality is that we have to make significant,

informed, thoughtful decisions about how we're going to protect British Columbians

in the coming season as we move ahead.

We did talk about some of the things in disaster financial assistance. There was a

private member's bill introduced in February of last year by my colleague from Kamloops–South

Thompson. It talks about the DFA program, and I think that the situation is.... We

already knew that the DFA program wasn't working for people that have ranches. I remember

seeing the footage up in Monte Creek, where people were out there with tankers. Essentially,

they became the firefighters, and they weren't going to let a barn be lost, or whatever.

That's kind of part of the problem. They're in a place where they can't necessarily

have the protection that we have in communities like where I live. I can buy insurance,

but the reality is what about the ones that are in the remote or fringe areas? They're

all over British Columbia. They're not just in Kelowna West. I think these people

deserve to have some certainty.

We need to find a program and make changes in Bill 31 to try and improve on what it

is that we're trying to accomplish. It's going to cost some money, but the reality

is: look at how much the forest fire fighting has cost us this year. It is already

known that it's the worst on record. It's expensive. It's not easy to deal with this,

but we've got to deal with it.

[3:25 p.m.]

Maybe there's some things that we should be doing differently in terms of forestry.

I know that in my community, there's a First Nation community forest and they want

to expand and grow. They have principled approaches which will deal with old growth

and things like that. There are all sorts of places where we could be doing work and

flipping a switch — instead of saying, "Don't log. Don't do this," making it so that

communities can have that extra protection.

We talk about thinning. When I was on the mid-term timber supply committee, the Minister

of Labour was on that same one. This is ancient history. He and I were out there,

and we heard about selective logging up in Quesnel or the Cariboo region, etc. The

reality is that it was being done, and it was being advocated. It's not about taking

everything; it's about being practical. What are the best forest practices that we

need?

It changes by region — the Cariboo, the Okanagan or the Interior, the rainforest out

around Lumby, the Monashees and stuff like that. We need a different approach in all

these areas. We've got to make certain that we protect these communities from disasters,

that we have the trees still growing in the ground. In my community, I've got — I

don't know — 15,000 hectares that have burned. When the snow and rains come down and

things like that, there are going to be problems. There's going to be flooding, with

people not being able to get back into their homes.

It's my hope that with the discussion, we can move to a place where we can help accommodate

and make certain that for future property damage, etc.… It's not going to, maybe,

cover all the costs, but it's going to give you a hand up — the idea that we're going

to make it so that we can help people get restarted on what they're trying to do.

I do think that the federal government, which is a big part of disaster financial

assistance, needs to change some of the processes. I realize it's a national program,

but Canada is not the same all over. There are differences in and amongst different

areas. Part of Bill 31 is addressing the disaster financial assistance program. It

needs to be addressed in a manner so that it's accessible and easy to access.

I heard this from people that are farming out in the Sumas Prairie. They had terrible

difficulties in trying to establish what it was that…. I mean, there was denial. "You

didn't have this," or "It wasn't worth that," or whatever. That's just not the way

it has got to work.

Farmers already have a tough enough time. We heard it this year on the Finance Committee.

They can't afford the hay because the cost of the hay is so expensive, the fact that

the trucking is so expensive. There is no hay. We had drought conditions and stuff

like that.

The reality is that the disaster financial assistance program, for those people that

were impacted, like in Sumas Prairie, needs to make certain that it's adaptable. That

was not expected. I know that there are changes that probably have to occur there,

the flood protection issues. What are we doing to get these people back up?

Farming is a bit of a rare breed. It's not like everybody coming out of school is

thinking: "Oh, I want to be a farmer." They want to make certain that they have something

that they can make a living at, so their parents tell them to go to university. Now

we're telling them to go and get a trade. What about farming?

I think the reality is that we need to send the right message to ranchers and farmers

that we do care about what they're doing and make certain that this is not going to

be the end of what their opportunity is to provide for British Columbians.

I'm glad to see this morning that Kwantlen college is busy working on year-round berry

production, just so that we're not kind of a seasonal kind of thing.

I see that my time is up.

A. Olsen: Thank you for this opportunity to speak to Bill 31, the Emergency and Disaster Management

Act, here at second reading.

It's important, I think, just to acknowledge the social disruption, the disruption

on people and communities that occurred this summer as we experienced the biggest

fire season — it used to be called summer — in the history of the province. That would

be enough, except for the fact that we've experienced out of the last five years….

I think four years of the last five top that list.

[3:30 p.m.]

We're seeing the disruption and the impact on people's lives happening more frequently,

and we're seeing that impact happen to a level that we've not experienced before in

our province. As someone who's been around this place for a little while now, when

those disruptions happen, we and the members here feel those disruptions in a fairly

unique way. We hear those stories from our constituents and the experiences that they

have firsthand.

[S. Chandra Herbert in the chair.]

We are not on the front line of fires or, during the atmospheric rivers, of floods.

We're on the front lines of the work that we do with our constituents to understand

the impact that these disasters are having on people and on their communities. It's

our job to articulate that impact to the government, to the minister, to those delivering

the services to, in this case, the wildfire response. It can get pretty tough to be

representing communities that are under emergency orders or that are experiencing

this level of disruption.

I think it's important, first, to acknowledge all of the British Columbians across

our province that have gone through the experience of intense smoke, intense fire,

that have lost their property, that have lost their livelihoods, that have lost all

of those important things that people accumulate and that have special memories, good

feelings that are in those items. It's important to recognize and acknowledge the

impact that this past summer has had on many, many hundreds, thousands of British

Columbians.

It's, I think, important to acknowledge our colleagues here who represent communities

that have faced that disruption. There's this perception that when this Legislature

adjourns for the summer, that the MLAs go on the barbecue tour. While that might happen

to some extent, I think it's important to recognize that when MLAs leave this place,

when we adjourn, we have a whole other part of the work that we do.

I could not imagine it — I was sitting as one of those privileged MLAs from Vancouver

Island; thankfully, we were left untouched from the fire disasters that we saw this

summer — to be thinking of my colleagues who were right in the middle of it and whose

communities were being impacted, and the representation that they did on behalf of

their constituents.

So I acknowledge them as well, and acknowledge the work of the minister, who communicated

and who was very much put to work this entire summer season, being the voice and the

face of the government's response in some very, very technically challenging areas

of the province and under an incredible amount of pressure, to be able to deliver

the best outcomes on behalf of British Columbians.

In those situations, we're always going to be able to identify mixed results. Part

of the work that we do here is to be able to bring that information back to the minister

and to the ministry and hope that the response, from a policy perspective, is that

we're improving our policy, improving our systems, improving our infrastructure, improving

our response. At those moments, the partisan differences in this place melt away,

and we truly become colleagues operating in the same House to protect the greater

house of British Columbia, the people of British Columbia, as best we can.

I appreciate the vulnerability, the honesty and the forthrightness with which the

Minister of Emergency Management and Climate Readiness did her work this summer. So

I raise my hands to her for being that this summer and being there for British Columbians

this summer.

[3:35 p.m.]

Bill 31 repeals and replaces the Emergency Program Act, EPA. It was last updated in

1993, a long time ago, and much has changed since then, including the COVID-19 pandemic.

We've seen unprecedented floods, wildfires, heat domes. The latter, at least, we didn't

even know existed. We didn't know about atmospheric rivers before the first atmospheric

river; we didn't know about heat domes.

Part of the framing of it…. We didn't know it, I guess, in that language. We knew

that they existed, but British Columbians didn't really understand the impact that

those have on communities and on people. We've been introduced to those concepts and

to the severity, that when it gets oppressively hot for a long period of time, that's

a heat dome.

This legislation was promised a couple of years ago, and I know that it's been worked

on by government over that time. It's not an easy change. These changes are not easy

to make. It's all-encompassing, and the government needs to be very thorough when

constructing the new Emergency and Disaster Management Act, this Bill 31 that we're

going to be debating over the coming weeks. We're debating it here in second reading,

but where we really start to understand the bill will be in committee stage.

For this particular bill, we continue to see the government using enabling legislation,

and a lot of the details are left out of the actual legislation that's in front of

us. So the best chance that we have, as opposition members, to understand the bill

in front of us and what the intentions of the minister and of the ministry are on

the forthcoming regulations comes at the committee stage, where we have an opportunity

to ask questions.

Our staff have prepared a large number of questions for us to try to get to a deeper

understanding of some of the ideas that are expressed in this legislation, in Bill

31 here — of how they work, how they are implemented, how they are executed on the

ground, how British Columbians are informed about the changes, and how British Columbians

understand their role going forward.

This summer, some of the more challenging aspects of the current framework were British

Columbians wanting to be there in support, British Columbians wanting to be a part

of the solution, and an ever-evolving culture that we have that excludes people. In

some cases, it is for good reason, but in other cases it left me curious as to why

community members could not be involved in the protection of their communities.

Bill 31 incorporates lessons learned from recent disasters, the Abbott-Chapman report

of 2018, and it implements the Sendai framework and the declaration on the rights

of Indigenous peoples. It recognizes the self-governing authority of First Nations

when it comes to preparing for and responding to natural disasters, by creating individual

agreements between the province and First Nations to coordinate the jurisdictional

authority on emergency management, including prevention, response and recovery.

It's important to acknowledge that this bill accounts for all four phases of emergency

management. I just outlined them: mitigation, preparation, response and recovery.

That comes from the Sendai framework, and it streamlines and clarifies the powers

and duties of the minister, the provincial emergency management organization, ministries,

public sector agencies and local authorities.

It broadens the definition of "emergency" to include security threats — for example;

terrorism; transmissible diseases — something that we've become quite familiar with

over the last few years; and environmental toxins.

It also expands the definition, to be updated to include the impacts to cultural sites.

We've seen this summer and the previous summers, whether it be by flood or by fire,

the devastating impact that those have on sacred sites for Indigenous people right

across the province.

[3:40 p.m.]

Part of this program that is being put forward here in this bill is the new responsibility

for communities to create thorough risk assessments.

Now, there's some of this that happens. I don't want to suggest that there are no

risk assessments that are going on in our communities, but I think it is important

to understand that responsibility is changing and that there is a responsibility for

the local, provincial and Indigenous governments to develop these plans and to coordinate

the efforts of these plans on the ground locally and in an agreement locally and that

the role of climate change will also need to be a consideration in these risk assessments

and an important evolution of it.

The risk assessments must, among other things, identify all hazards and evaluate the

degree or risk related to each hazard, as well as the potential consequences on a

variety of different interests — people, animals, places and others who might be disproportionately

impacted by disasters and emergencies.

Emergency response plans will be there to address the four phases of the emergency

management — preparedness, mitigation, response and recovery — and will be based on

the completed risk assessments. There will also be a requirement for business continuity

plans to ensure that the business of local government can continue to function and

that those services that British Columbians need from their local governments can

continue to be delivered during that time of emergency.

There's also a new and emergent aspect of this that didn't exist before, and that

is the involvement of local Indigenous governing bodies and Indigenous people within

this consultation and cooperation that is consistent with the declaration on the rights

of Indigenous peoples.

This is one of those areas where I am going to have many questions, I think, because

I think that it's important to acknowledge that while there is consent required from

some First Nations, there is only a level of consultation and cooperation or a "consideration,"

which is a word that frustrates me to no end because it means that all of the work

can be done, and the minister can dispense their duty by considering and then moving

on.

We have a great deal of effort, a great deal of energy invested and expended on Indigenous

governing bodies coming to the table with their information, coming to the table with

their recommendations, coming to the table with their interests and their rights.

And the minister or the ministry or some statutory decision–maker considers them and

then goes right along with whatever it is that the government had already decided.

We live in a changing world, and I think that it's important that our laws and our

legislation reflect that changing world that we're living in. As I said, it's been

since 1993 that a major renovation has been done to this legislation.

Rather than going into too much detail here on each of the areas of questions that

I'm going to be asking, I think it is important for us to leave as much time as possible

for that at committee stage because what is written in the law here that we're looking

at in front of us isn't necessarily exactly how it's going to play out on the ground.

I think part of the challenge that we've had as we've analyzed this bill is understanding

and being able to see how it takes shape on the landscape; how it changes the relationship

between the provincial government, local governments and First Nations; where the

money is coming from in order to do this?

[3:45 p.m.]

How much of the ministry powers are retained, and how much of those powers become

municipal responsibilities that are then unfunded, like we see this institution do

willingly for local governments? How much of the responsibility or the power that

the minister has turns into a responsibility for First Nations, Indigenous governing

bodies, to be volunteering and donating their time to the provincial government in

the development of their plans, in the development of all that work, only to maybe

not be even adopted, for it to be considered, and then for everybody to move on as

if it never happened?

So it's important that we understand exactly how those relationships evolve, how those

relationships play out on the ground. It's important, I think, for local governments

to understand, as they're going to be responsible for implementing a lot of the emergency

disaster management. How much are they going to have to shoulder of the cost and the

expenses of this important work?

How often are the risk assessments? How often are the business continuity plans, the

comprehensive management plans going to be updated and reviewed? What's that process?

How does…? Doing it once — that's fine. But as I just said, times change. Things on

the ground evolve. Nature evolves. How often are those going to have to be done?

I think the response from the minister about why it is that so much of this was brought

forward, yet so much of it is going to be left to regulation…. So much of it is going

to be left outside this legislative process. Yet another situation where the government

says: "Just trust us. We will. Just trust us. We will."

I'd love to get to a point where, when the government says, "Just trust us. We will,"

I could say: "Absolutely. No problem." But unfortunately, I'm not there right now.

I haven't arrived at that spot.

I feel that when we are taking a framework that has existed since 1993, and we're

replacing it…. Now, this is not an amending bill. This is replacing the system that

we have. I think that the government replacing it owes it to British Columbians to

put the details. I think that's where the committee stage of this bill is going to

be so important, where the minister has the opportunity to provide clarity.

If the minister can't provide the specific clarity about the exact regulation, then

hopefully the minister will come prepared to be able to provide a broad sketch, an

understanding of where the direction is, what we can expect to see. The more detail

that we have, the better. The more detail we have, the easier it will be for British

Columbians to understand what their responsibilities are in the success of this.

Finally, I think it's important to recognize that when we take a look at this bill,

it's difficult to understand what role fire departments…. Some of the specific, really

important service delivery operators — what role do they play in this at this stage?

I understand that, partly, it's going to be developed from risk assessments. It's

going to be developed by these continuity plans. But the reality is that I think people

are going to look at this legislation and say: where do we fit in this? Where does

nature fit in this? Where does our relationship with nature fit?

We heard this summer about the way we are harvesting trees — harvesting our forests,

for an example — and how we are replanting those landscapes and making sure the landscapes

that are being planted are fire-resistant. How are the different ministries within

government coordinating? How is the Minister of Forests involved in this? How is the

Minister of Water, Land and Resource Stewardship involved in this? Does the Minister

of Indigenous Relations have any responsibilities in this?

I think there needs to be clarity found within the roles and the policies that other

ministries are drafting about landscape management plans, about biodiversity plans

that the ministry of walrus, as we call it — the work that they're doing. I think

that some of that clarity…. I'm hoping that the minister comes to that committee stage

debate prepared to elevate it.

[3:50 p.m.]

With that, I just want to acknowledge that there is a tremendous amount of work that's

been done to get the bill here, to this stage. I really hope that as we get out towards

the end of this autumn session that British Columbians are able to look at the legislation

that we have. I feel pretty certain that this bill is going to pass at the end of

the session. I just have a feeling that it's going to be supported.

What I hope is that when that bill is supported, the people that are watching this

and the people that are paying attention are able to say we have a more fulsome understanding

of what it is: the law that is going to be guiding emergency and disaster management

in our province, how it's going to look and how it's going to be. Right now, we're

really feeling we're challenged to be able to clearly identify some key areas of this

that the government has known about since 2003 and that they have known about since

the Abbott-Chapman report in 2018.

We see elements of it. We see elements of the relationship with Indigenous governing

bodies that I think we like. However, I think the detail is still lacking, and we're

hoping that that starts to crystallize and becomes more available for British Columbians

going forward.

With that, I appreciate this opportunity to speak to this bill, and I'll take my seat.

HÍSW̱ḴE SIÁM.

S. Bond: I appreciate the opportunity, and I appreciate the remarks of my colleague and friend

the House Leader for the Third Party.

I want to begin by recognizing how important it is that revisions take place and that

we are responding to a changing situation not just in British Columbia but, in fact,

globally. We know the act needs to be revised. In fact, in this case, we have a full

rewrite of the bill, and that calls for us to do our homework.

I'm going to get to some of the comments and concerns that I have in just a moment,

but I really want to begin by thanking the men and women who worked tirelessly during

this past summer and in previous emergencies to keep people and properties safe. They

did that at their own risk. Many were from British Columbia, but others came from

around the world and other jurisdictions across this country to help us in these devastating

times.

I was doing an errand in my community in Prince George during the height of the wildfire

season. Many of you who were paying attention would know that Prince George fire district

— or VanJam, a specific part of that district — was extraordinarily hard hit this

summer. I ran into a member of the Australian team that was stationed in the VanJam

fire region, and I thanked him and said: "I am so grateful that you are here."

His response to me is one that I will never forget, because he said to me: "I am here

and we are here because you helped us when we needed it, and now it's our turn." So

we had fire personnel from across this country, from South Africa and from Australia

who stepped up and literally were here to help us.

All of us were devastated with the toll this summer. It was immense. We actually lost

lives. The risk is very real, and it is tragic at times. So to all of those who work

so hard on our behalf, we are deeply grateful.

I also want to recognize the minister for her efforts this summer to be inclusive.

We were given the opportunity to participate in regular briefing calls, and those

calls increased in frequency dependent on the circumstances we were facing. She also

personally reached out to many of us during those terrifying and difficult days when

our communities were impacted.

I simply want to say this. That is exactly what should happen during emergencies and

disasters — and on other significant issues, I might add. I hope that it continues,

because during those periods of time and during a crisis, I can assure you that my

constituents aren't trying to sort out what political party people belong to. They

want all hands on deck. They want a collaborative and a coordinated approach.

One of the things that I know I discussed with the minister and appreciated her thoughtfulness

about this was how frustrating it was to have multiple calls taking place during a

crisis and knowing that there were certain levels of government involved and, "No,

this group is calling and that group is calling…."

[3:55 p.m.]

All I know is this. As their Member of the Legislative Assembly, I'm getting phone

calls about how best to help my constituents.

I think we should set aside those partisan differences at times like that. Whether

it's a regional district or a city council, whether it's an MLA or an MP, for heaven's

sakes, it is time for us all to be at that table. All of us have one goal in mind,

and that is to keep people and property safe. So I think we need to….

One of the things that I think about when I read legislation and Bill 31…. When you

look at the beginning of a bill, it usually has explanatory notes. The explanatory

note in this bill, even though it's…. I think it's 121 pages long. It does talk about

the things that are important in this bill.

The thing that sticks out to me, and I'm going to refer to it several times, is: it

should incorporate lessons learned. We have to ask ourselves: does this bill reflect

the lessons we've learned, not just this past summer but, in fact, in ongoing and

increasingly frequent, weather-related particularly, crises in our province?

I also want to give a special shout-out to the public servants that supported the

briefing calls, even on the days that were very, very challenging. They were professional,

they were helpful, and they provided much-needed feedback and follow-up.

I remember one call in particular. Probably a few hours before, a young female firefighter

had lost her life. Those public servants were visibly shaken on our briefing call,

but they were there because they had a job to do. That included making sure we had

a better understanding of what was happening. They didn't get to take the day off

or to grieve. They had to be there to support their colleagues.

I simply want to recognize how touched and emotional we all were that day by the public

servants. I know the minister will share those remarks with them.

The last time this legislation was actually updated was in 1993, three decades ago.

Lots has changed. The Minister of Public Safety and I were just trying to figure out

whether (

a) we were in this place or (

b) how old we were at that period in time.

It is a significant bill: 121 pages and 108 sections. Just as my colleague from the

Green Party pointed out, it warrants thorough debate in this Legislature. Quite literally,

lives could depend on the framework and the law that's being discussed here today.

Communities depend on us, as well, to get this right.

I'm certainly hopeful that it won't meet the fate other critical bills have. I was

in the middle of debating one of t