Third Session, 42nd Parliament

(2022) OFFICIAL REPORT

OF DEBATES

(HANSARD)

Thursday, May 19, 2022

Morning Sitting

Issue No. 212

ISSN 1499-2175

The HTML transcript is provided for informational purposes only.

The PDF transcript remains the official digital version.

CONTENTS

Routine Business

Introductions by Members

Tributes

Touran Sanii

B. Bailey

Introductions by Members

Introduction and First Reading of Bills

Bill M209 — Indigenous Names Statutes Amendment Act, 2022

D. Clovechok

Statements (Standing Order 25B)

Family Doctor Day

L. Doerkson

J. Routledge

Komagata Maru and action on racism

T. Stone

Child care providers and early childhood educators

N. Sharma

Tricia Datene

S. Furstenau

Fraternal Order of Eagles

D. Routley

Ministerial Statements

Le Estcwicwéy̓

memorial event for missing children at Kamloops residential school

Hon. M. Rankin

P. Milobar

A. Olsen

Oral Questions

Access to family physicians and government funding priorities

S. Bond

Hon. A. Dix

R. Merrifield

Access to family physicians and management of primary care system

S. Furstenau

Hon. A. Dix

Seismic upgrades for schools and government funding priorities

T. Halford

Hon. J. Whiteside

K. Kirkpatrick

Government priorities and museum replacement project

T. Stone

Hon. M. Farnworth

Petitions

S. Bond

Tabling Documents

ICBC fairness officer, annual report, 2021-22

Orders of the Day

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of Finance (continued)

Hon. S. Robinson

P. Milobar

Estimates: Management of public funds and debt

Estimates: Other appropriations

Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of Land, Water and Resource Stewardship

Hon. J. Osborne

L. Doerkson

THURSDAY, MAY 19, 2022

The House met at 10:04 a.m.

[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]

Routine Business

Prayers and reflections: S. Malcolmson.

[10:05 a.m.]

Introductions by Members

N. Letnick: Thank you, hon. Speaker, for that honour of going first. I wasn’t

expecting it, but I’ll take it.

Speaking of going first, I’d like to introduce a friend of mine,

someone who’s seen 2,000 babies, firsthand, come into this world. Marjorie

Docherty is a family physician. She has been with the College of Physicians

and Surgeons for, I think, over ten years and is here for meetings with the

official opposition, I hope, as well as with the Minister of

Health.

Would the House please welcome my good friend, and physician, Dr.

Marjorie Docherty.

Hon. A. Dix: It’s B.C. Family Doctor Day, and we have many doctors here. Members on

all sides of the House had an opportunity to meet this morning, over

breakfast, with family doctors from across B.C.

We’re so appreciative that they’re here, so appreciative of their

work, which is the foundation of primary care in our province. They are

specialists in the delivery of primary care, and we are honoured to have

them here.

Dr. David May is here from Powell River. He’s the president of the

B.C. College of Family Physicians. My colleague from Kelowna–Lake Country

referred to Dr. Marjorie Docherty. Also, Dr. Preveena Dharmaraj, Dr. Ana

Boskovic. I think I’m going to be seeing Dr. Nick Petrop­olis later —

I like the bow-tie, and it’s pretty good; Dr. Tahmeena Ali; and really,

doctors, from all over B.C.

We’re so honoured to have them with us. The work they do is so

important. This is an important moment for them and for primary care in B.C.

I look forward to continuing our work together to bring solutions that make

sense for patients and make sense for family practice doctors in

B.C.

Welcome.

S. Bond: I want to join with the Minister of Health in thanking the doctors for

the informative breakfast this morning.

Joining us in the gallery here today are also concerned citizens that

will be taking

part in the B.C. Health Care Matters rally outside the

Legislature today. They are here to voice their concerns about the shortage

of family doctors in British Columbia. I look forward to joining them later,

after question period.

I’d like to also welcome Dr. Jennifer Lush, Dr. Carlin Mann, Dr.

Jennifer Vassel, Dr. Dianna Peters, Camille Currie, Shawn Currie, Aidan

Currie, Mila Currie, Alexis Reid, Suzanne Bugeaud and Paul

Parsons.

We welcome you today and thank you for sharing your stories with

us.

Hon. M. Rankin: Today Mr. John Hillman is in the gallery. He is 103 years old and a

truly remarkable constituent of mine from Oak Bay–Gordon Head.

A veteran of World War II, John served with the Royal Air Force from

1937 to ’49, earning medals for his bravery in four wartime campaigns. As

Allies frantically escaped the shores of Dunkirk, John Hillman, along with

59 other members of his squadron, were left to witness an advancing

Wehrmacht attack. In the face of enormous danger, John pushed on and arrived

in England on a Royal Navy destroyer and went on to serve in campaigns in

North Africa, Italy and Burma.

Later, in England, he met the love of life, Irene, and they settled in

Canada with their family. In 1988, he retired from his work as an electrical

engineer, and they eventually settled in Oak Bay.

In 2020, at the age of 100, John began the next

chapter of a truly

inspiring life. In the 100th year of his life, John began walking laps in

the courtyard of Carlton House, where he lives, in order to raise money for

the Save the Children foundation. He was overwhelmed by the support from our

community and raised over $400,000 in 2020 and 2021.

[10:10 a.m.]

That’s not all, Mr. Speaker. John became a champion for youth around

the world. This year, after witnessing the aggression of the Russians in

Ukraine, John learned that the Save the Children foundation had quickly

reacted, not only supporting displaced refugees but also providing

protective services to unaccompanied children fleeing that war.

With his 103rd birthday in March, John again committed to walking to

support their heroic efforts. He began on May 2. He walked ten laps a day to

reach a minimum of 103 laps, one for each year, with a bonus three laps on

the final day, May 13.

I had the honour of briefly walking with him on that day. With a sip

of scotch to commemorate the historic occasion, I’m happy to share with the

House that John’s selfless leadership has beat his target of $103,000, and

he has raised $105,403 to date.

In conclusion, if Canadians are looking for role models or inspiration

in their lives, we should look no further than John Hillman. He deserves the

gratitude of our entire province. He has used the latter phase of his life

to help the young and the most vulnerable people on the planet.

John Hillman is a true hero. I am delighted that he has joined us in

the gallery today, and I would ask all members to make him truly welcome.

[Applause.]

E. Ross: Hon. Speaker, my wife, Tracey, is in the gallery today somewhere,

hopefully. She sat there for…. Maybe she left.

Anyway, we haven’t had a great year in our family, but on May 25, it’s

her birthday. She hasn’t had a birthday celebrated in nine years, because my

granddaughter was born on May 23. A lot of grandparents know what that

means. You give up your birthday to celebrate your grandchildren.

That’s my grandchild over there. Her name is Elise Moore.

Happy birthday.

My wife is somewhere in here. I just noticed on this family tie, I’m

not on it.

Anyway, happy birthday to my wife on May 25, and to my granddaughter

Elise Moore, happy birthday on May 23.

Hon. B. Ralston: I rise today to recognize the contributions of an exceptional public

servant. Paul Wieringa has retired after 32 years of service. Paul and his

spouse, Ann Antonides, are with us today here in the gallery.

Paul has provided wise counsel to ministers and governments on both

sides of the House over this long period. As ministers, we are empowered to

make decisions. Paul’s role has been to ensure that these are informed

decisions. Paul has the skill of being able to look at a problem from

multiple perspectives and come up with solutions.

He’s been a driving force between the government’s energy and climate

plans, whether it is the development of the low-carbon fuel standard,

regulation of the province’s electricity and gas utilities, the development

of new utility programs and rates, the facilitation of a federal-provincial

zero emission transportation working group or collaboration with utilities

and telecommunication providers to make the extension of broadband services

more efficient.

Paul has been a much-sought-after source of expertise and ideas.

Paul’s can-do attitude and his calm demeanor are thoroughly missed, not to

mention his extensive historic knowledge of the electricity and energy

decisions taken in the province over the last few decades.

Paul’s legacy is the incoming group of leaders he has mentored so that

the ministry can continue to implement sound public policy.

I wish Paul all the best in his retirement.

On behalf of the government and the entire Ministry of Energy, Mines,

and Low Carbon Innovation, congratulations, and thank you, Paul, for your

tremendous contributions to the province and its people over your long

career with the B.C. public service.

[10:15 a.m.]

N. Sharma: I am really pleased to introduce an amazing group of folks who are

part of Vancouver Foundation’s youth policy program called LEVEL, which is a

six-month leadership program that brings together Indigenous and racialized

immigrant and refugee youth from across B.C. to provide training to shape

and advocate for public policy that addresses issues impacting their

lives.

In the House today are a cohort of 16 students from across B.C.

They’re here from Fort Nelson, Powell River, Duncan, Victoria, Metro

Vancouver, and they’re visiting us before they begin their in-person

training module on Canadian government and Indigenous governance.

I want to acknowledge Amora Takawira, the manager of the program, and

welcome you all. Thank you for your hard work.

Would the House please join me in welcoming them.

J. Tegart: I ask the House to welcome Rebecca, Jess and Sam Chesham, visiting the

Legislature today from Nanoose Bay.

Hon. J. Whiteside: It’s kind of a big day for me here. It’s the first time that a family

member has been able to be on the legislative precinct in person and in the

House in person. My partner, François Giguère, is here today, and joining us

this week in Victoria is his youngest daughter, ma belle-fille,

Maxime Choquette Giguère.

Maxime is visiting from Quebec. She’s been here for several months,

touring British Columbia. She spent the last few weeks enjoying Vancouver

Island. We’re so proud of her courageous, adventuring spirit. She’s such a

loving, wonderful young woman.

Would the House please help me welcome my family here

today.

T. Halford: I am delighted to see that we are joined in the gallery by members of

the B.C. Psychological Association. Myself, the member for Prince

George–Valemount and the Leader of the Opposition had the opportunity and

privilege to meet with these wonderful individuals yesterday, and I was

very, very delighted to have that.

We’re joined by Dr. Simon Elterman, Dr. Lesley Lutes and Alexina

Picard. I ask that the House please make them welcome.

A. Olsen: Today I had the honour of joining many of our colleagues here in the

Legislature for breakfast with family physicians. I had breakfast this

morning with two doctors in my riding. I know that there are at least three

family physicians from my riding here, watching question period.

Dr. Kate Evans is now working as a family practice doctor in my home

communities of the W̱SÁNEĆ. Kate has been

a family physician for 19 years, working in a variety of settings, including

private practice for the South Island Division of Family Practice board and

helping the Saanich Peninsula Youth Clinic.

Also joining Dr. Evans is Dr. Mark Sherman. Dr. Sherman lives in

Saanichton and is a very important doctor as part of the Shoreline Medical

Clinic on the Saanich peninsula. It has been serving our communities very

well. And also Dr. Erin Carlson from Galiano Island, a rural family

physician passionate about primary care in B.C. and a grassroots advocate

for patient care in B.C.

Could the House please make these three very important members of our

community welcome to this place today.

I have one more very important introduction.

Before we return to this place, after we adjourn for a week, we will

have celebrated the tenth birthday of my little girl, Ella Olsen. She has

been counting down for at least 365 days. She celebrates her birthday like

none other. This year Emily and I will be proud to say that we have a

ten-year-old as our youngest child. That says something about us too,

doesn’t it.

Could the House please join me in wishing my beautiful little girl,

Ella, a happy birthday.

A. Walker: I’m happy to welcome a couple of consti­tuents from Nanoose Bay

but also a couple of constituents that I’m looking forward to having lunch

with, Jackie and Neil Worboys. Would the House please make them very

welcome.

[10:20 a.m.]

J. Sturdy: Today Dr. Karin Kausky is in the gallery, I believe, right up here,

with a delegation of doctors visiting the Legislature. Dr. Kausky has

practised family and emergency medicine in Whistler since 1993, and she’s

the co-chair of the Sea to Sky Division of Family Practice.

She has been recognized as Whistler Citizen of the Year last year and

the B.C. Family Physician of the Year for 2022. She has a long list of

credentials, including Olympic team work, TED Talks and academic

certifications, but in the interest of brevity, I’ll skip over some of

that.

What is important today is to highlight her commitment to rethinking

and rebuilding the model of family practice in Whistler, in the Sea to Sky

and beyond.

In 2019, Dr. Kausky formed the Whistler Primary Care Task Force to

find a way to attract and retain more family physicians in

Whistler.

This endeavour has evolved in collaboration with key community groups

and recently resulted in the Whistler 360 Health Collaborative Society,

which is working towards formalizing and building out a team-based

patient-centric community care centre in Whistler which may well be a model

that can be replicated in communities big and small across this

province.

I’ve known and worked with Karin for many years, and it’s truly my

pleasure to introduce this amazing and inspiring woman to this Legislature

today. I hope you all join me in helping me make her feel

welcome.

Hon. N. Cullen: As we all know, this is Local Government Awareness Week. Everyone was

probably out celebrating yesterday’s Asset Management Awareness Day, and I

hope everyone has recovered fully from that celebration.

With us is today in the precinct is the executive of the Union of B.C.

Municipalities — president Laurey-Anne Roodenburg, and others. Many of our

colleagues met with them earlier this week for a little bit of togetherness

after a long time. They’re incredible partners in building a better British

Columbia, allies in the effort to make all of our communities more liveable,

from large to small.

President Roodenburg, coming from the mighty metropolis of Quesnel,

has done a fantastic job as president in advocating for large and,

particularly, small communities. Would the House join me in making them feel

welcome.

H. Sandhu: As previously mentioned, today is B.C. Family Doctor Day, and I want

to take a moment to thank all the incredible doctors who go above and beyond

and provide such exceptional care to their patients and make a difference

every day.

One of those amazing doctors is Dr. Dianna Peters, who was supposed to

be with the delegation of doctors today, but at the last minute, for some

reason, we also had a meeting scheduled between her and me. She couldn’t be

here, but I’m sure she’s watching.

Would the House please join me to show appreciation and thank all the

incredible doctors around the province, in the gallery and Dr. Dianna

Peters, who’s an amazing advocate for primary health care.

S. Chant: I have a couple of introductions today. First off, again recognizing

B.C. Family Doctor Day, I have Dr. Isabelle, or Bella, Hughan here today,

and she’s a doctor out of Parkgate Medical Clinic in my constituency of

North Vancouver–Seymour.

She’s a past president of the medical association of the Lions Gate

Hospital and now provides grassroots longitudinal care as a family doctor at

Parkgate Medical.

She’s an international medical graduate, originally from the U.K. She

has two children. I would love it if everybody would help me welcome her and

all the other wonderful family doctors that we have with us here

today.

Also, one of the people, the bright shiny faces that greet us every

morning in the east annex, is Kelly Favreau, who works as reception. She’s

in the gallery today with her partner, Russell, and would have been with her

parents today. However, they got delayed by this wind problem that we seem

to be experiencing in Victoria.

I’m hoping that everybody will please help me make Kelly Favro;

Russell; Kelly’s parents, Paul and Susan; and Kelly’s little girl, Isabelle,

welcome.

[10:25 a.m.]

P. Alexis: There are days I wish I were taller or bigger. This is one of

them.

It is a pleasure for the member for Maple Ridge–Mission and me to

welcome two city councillors from the city of Mission, Couns. Carol Hamilton

and Danny Plecas. Coun. Carol Hamilton and I got our start in 2005 as school

trus­tees, and then we ran again together for council in 2014. She’s a

dear, dear friend — a strong supporter — and I miss her very, very

much.

Councillor Plecas and I go way back. He’s serving his third term.

We’ve done a number of projects together, but we began our plotting, I

think, way back when in ’96, when we were both working for the school

district. We would sit at night and talk about how we could bring Mission

into the future — and I think, sir, we’ve succeeded.

Would the House please welcome Couns. Carol Hamilton and Danny

Plecas.

D. Coulter: Mr. Speaker, I just realized that tomorrow is my tenth anniversary of

my wedding.

I’m joking. Of course, I knew this whole time; of course I knew. Yes,

I’ve been married to my lovely wife, Rebecca Leslie Coulter, for ten years

tomorrow. It doesn’t feel like ten years, as the time clicks by. Anyway, I’d

love to wish my wife a happy anniversary.

S. Furstenau: I’m joining my colleagues to express appreciation for the family

doctors breakfast this morning. I had the pleasure of meeting with Dr. Lana

Wicentovich, Dr. Suzanne Montemuro and Dr. Shana Johnston. I am pleased to

report that not only did I learn a lot about their experiences as family

physicians, but I made three new friends, and I’m just delighted to know

them.

Hon. S. Malcolmson: To reinforce the welcome from my critic on the other side, I’m very

glad to have the B.C. Psychological Association with us in the House. A

particular welcome to Dr. Lutes and Dr. Elterman, whom I look forward to

meeting again this morning.

Tributes

TOURAN SANII

B. Bailey: I rise to highlight the life and passing of a wonderful woman, my

partner Bijan’s mother, Touran Sanii, who died July 1, 2020, at 94, at

the height of the pandemic. Like many families, we were unable to come

together to honour her life, and we will in fact do that this evening

with family from around the world.

Touran was born in Ashgabat, Turkmenistan, in 1925 and lived most

of her life in Iran prior to the revolution and resettling in Vancouver.

A mother of four, Mrs. Sanii was a bright, creative person with very

sharp wit. She loved a good party, and it seems only fitting that on the

anniversary of her passing each year, July 1, there will always be

fireworks and a party to be had.

Introductions by Members

B. Banman: I would just like to state from the onset that there is common ground

in here because I share the sentiments of my fellow colleague from

Abbotsford-Mission: I, too, wish I were taller at certain times.

There are a number of 30-plus-one grade 5 students from Alexandra

Elementary School that will be wandering through the halls today. They’re

about to arrive shortly. They will be here, I hope, for question period. If

you happen to see them, they are our future leaders. Please take a moment to

say hello. Will the House please help give them a warm welcome.

Mr. Speaker: I think we are done.

Introduction and

First Reading of Bills

BILL M209 — INDIGENOUS NAMES

STATUTES AMENDMENT ACT,

D. Clovechok presented a bill intituled Indigenous Names Statutes

Amendment Act, 2022.

D. Clovechok: I move the bill entitled Indigenous Names Statutes Amendment Act,

of which notice has been given in my name on the order paper, be

introduced and read for the first time now.

Mr. Speaker: Proceed.

D. Clovechok: Let me begin by saying that this bill was inspired by a young

woman in grade 12 from Golden, British Columbia, who wrote this letter

about truth and reconciliation and the reclamation of Indigenous names

for residential school survivors and their families and the use of these

traditional names on government documents. It was eloquent and

inspiring, and it’s her passion that brought this bill here today. I

believe she’s watching with her class today.

Thank you for that, Emme. I want Emme to know that I heard your

voice, and your words are now here in this chamber. This is your

bill.

[10:30 a.m.]

Indigenous people were stripped of their Indigenous names by

residential schools, and this bill responds to one of the 94 calls to

action of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.

The traditional names given to Indigenous children carry deep

cultural meaning, yet for many First Nations, Inuit and Métis peoples,

colonialism and residential schools robbed them of these sacred names —

names that are not only a symbolic issue but a matter of profound

identity. They have meaning.

As an adopted member of the Weasel Traveller family of the Piikani

First Nation and the Blackfoot Confederacy, my Blackfoot name is

Eskichikam. It means “seven stars,” and it refers directly to the Big

Dipper constellation. That comes with a cultural story that talks about

seven brothers who were taken into the sky and became that

constellation. Today whenever we see the Big Dipper, it reminds us that

we must always take care of our children.

This is who I am, not only in ceremony, but it is who I am. It has

meaning.

So many Indigenous names use characters, numbers and symbols which

are not easy to replicate and, as such, have not been able to be used on

official provincial documents. This bill introduced today will address

this issue. Indigenous applicants being denied their names have been

told by government that current software won’t tolerate special

characters. That’s unacceptable. This bill will enable government to

take action.

To Emme, I say thank you. Of all the trails in life, there is one

trail that matters the most, and that is the trail of a true human

being. I believe you’re on that trail. I pray that this House today

follow in suit on that travel with you. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker: Members, the question is the first reading of the bill.

Motion approved.

D. Clovechok: I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second

reading in the next sitting.

Bill M209, Indigenous Names Statutes Amendment Act, 2022, introduced,

read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second

reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Statements

(Standing Order 25B)

FAMILY DOCTOR DAY

L. Doerkson: Today, as you know, is B.C. Family Doctor Day, an opportunity to

honour and recognize the work of family doctors and the care that they

provide for British Columbians.

These specialists in family care are the first line of defence for

our health, and they partner with patients over the course of their

lives. This doctor-patient relationship is central to the work of family

physicians, and it allows them to provide quality and comprehensive

care. Family doctors specialize in the health of their patients, working

in concert with other health care professionals and specialists to

ensure that each patient’s individual needs are met.

Crucially, family doctors also serve an important role in

proactive care and preventative medicine, helping to prevent more

serious injuries or conditions and minimizing the need for expensive,

invasive treatment at a later date.

Our family doctors have continued to practice through­out

the pandemic, adapting to new ways of meeting with their patients and

working hard to continue the continuity of care that makes family

physicians so vital. We know that for many reasons, including growing

administrative burdens, it is increasingly challenging to be a family

doctor in British Columbia. Today we recognize the need for continued

investments in primary care and thoughtful, honest discussion going

forward.

With more people moving to B.C. every day, there is a growing need

for family doctors. To meet this demand, we must ensure we are working

to train, recruit and retain more primary care providers and that a

family practice is a career that people want to choose.

This morning we want to say thank you to the thousands of British

Columbia doctors. To all of the doctors in the chamber with us today,

we’re grateful for the quality care you provide and for the incredible

work that you do each and every day in the service of British

Columbians. Thank you.

J. Routledge: Today, on World Family Doctor Day, I rise to celebrate the vital

role they play in maintaining the wellness of our families and our

communities.

Today I’m thinking about some of the family doctors who have made

a difference in my life. Like Dr. Stevens, who, in the 1950s, diagnosed

my stay-at-home mom with cabin fever and prescribed she get a

job.

[10:35 a.m.]

Like Dr. Jensen, who wasn’t satisfied with the results of my

mammogram and kept sending me for more tests. Turns out, I did have

breast cancer, and thanks to her advocacy, it was treated early. Like

Dr. Jaffer, who knew I have a high pain threshold and shouldn’t be out

dancing yet on my broken ankle — critical information a walk-in clinic

or an ER wouldn’t have had access to, but he knows me and my medical

history.

My neighbour, Dr. Petropolis, told me about his patient, who had

made it clear for years that she wanted to live out her life in her own

home. So when she suffered a stroke, he was able to put in place a plan

that keeps her safe and respects her wishes.

There are so many more stories like these, but let me conclude by

saying this. Family doctors are often one’s first point of contact with

the health care system. They diagnose and treat illnesses and injury.

They promote disease prevention. They advocate on behalf of their

patients. They understand the social determinants of health that are

often unique to one’s personal circumstances. They treat the whole

person.

But our health care system that I grew up with, and so many of us

take for granted, is broken. Too many British Columbians don’t have a

family doctor. They don’t receive the longitudinal care that saves lives

and improves the quality of lives.

To all family doctors: we hear your pain and your struggles.

Together we can improve the system, so that you can continue to provide

the longitudinal care you signed on for.

Komagata Maru AND ACTION ON

RACISM

T. Stone: The SS Komagata Maru was a chartered ship that challenged

Canada’s past practices of excluding immigrants from India.

Anchoring in Vancouver harbour on May 23, 1914, the 376 passengers

from India, who had grand hopes for a new life in Canada, were faced

with what ended up being a very tragic experience. After the month-long

journey from Hong Kong, upon arrival, the passengers were turned away by

Canadian authorities and not allowed to enter the country. What made

this event more wretched was after a two-month standoff and forced

repatriation to India, 20 individuals were killed upon

disembarking.

The events that unfolded during the Komagata Maru incident are a

stain on the history of Canada and highlight the racist government

policies at that time. Through policies specifically designed to curb

the flow of Indian immigrants, they were not allowed to set foot on

Canadian soil. Instead, they faced racism and hatred.

We all believe that a rich, multicultural society helps nurture

acceptance, understanding and mutual respect. Cultural diversity,

increased participation and engagement by all cultures are vitally

important to create a strong and vibrant social and economic future for

British Columbia.

It’s important to remember the Komagata Maru incident, as it will

help ensure that tragedies like this never happen again. In our province

today, members of the South Asian community are leaders in all facets of

life. The people of B.C. recognize that a diverse and inclusive society

benefits everyone.

Thank you to the South Asian community for working to redress this

historic injustice and commemorate those who died and who were denied

safe harbour in Vancouver 108 years ago.

CHILD CARE PROVIDERS

AND EARLY CHILDHOOD

EDUCATORS

N. Sharma: Today is Child Care Provider Appreciation Day in B.C. I want to

say a huge thank-you to all of B.C.’s child care professionals. I know

first-hand the difference that they make.

I have young children, and like others in this chamber, as we sit

here, our children — and maybe grandchildren — are in the nurturing

hands of child care professionals. Because of them, parents like me go

to work every day with the peace of mind and the confidence to know that

our children are safe and being inspired to learn.

They are key to not only families and communities, but they’re

also essential for our economy. They are the workforce behind the

workforce and the heart of child care.

Throughout this challenging time, child care has remained a vital

service for families in every part of the province. That’s because of EC

workers like Heather Briese, who at the height of the pandemic lockdown,

began recording daily activities and messages for her children, because

as she said: “These children and their families have become part of my

family, so it was important to me that they knew I was still thinking

about them.”

Early childhood educators help children develop the critical

thinking, communication and social skills needed to succeed. Their work

transforms and shapes minds of the next generation, and they deserve

support and recognition.

[10:40 a.m.]

That’s why we’re investing in ECEs through our ChildCareBC

recruitment and retention plan, through en­hanced wages, bursaries

and professional development opportunities. We’re developing a wage grid

to ensure that ECEs are valued for the work they do.

It’s delivering on our commitment to build child care as a core

service, a service available to every family that wants it when they

need it and at a price they can afford.

I agree with Christine Jackson, an ECE instructor at the College

of New Caledonia, who said: “It’s probably the brightest time ever to

come into early childhood education.”

To all child care providers out there: we need you, and we thank

you for giving our children such a great start and helping us build a

stronger B.C.

TRICIA DATENE

S. Furstenau: Emily St. John Mandel wrote, in her novel Station Eleven :

“If you are the light, if your enemies are darkness, then there’s

nothing that you cannot justify. There’s nothing you can’t survive,

because there’s nothing that you will not do.”

Tricia Datene has been a shining light in my constituency office,

and tomorrow is a very special day for her. She’s turning 75, and she is

retiring. Tricia started as a volunteer and was soon hired in my office,

from the time we opened five years ago, in 2017. Ever since, she has

managed an overwhelming caseload of work, where she supported

individuals and families who had fallen through the social safety net

and were sometimes in desperate need of help.

Tricia approaches every constituent with unconditional love,

patience and generosity. She constantly goes above and beyond to help

anyone in need. Tricia processed 812 cases in our office, through which

she has demonstrated her greatest attribute: the ability to take on and,

more importantly, stick with the extremely layered and complicated cases

when government has failed to support someone who required complex

support. Tricia gave hope to people when they came to us for help, often

when they were ready to give up.

Tricia is an ardent feminist, a fierce warrior for justice and has

the most generous heart. Tricia says that her goal is to keep shining

her little light until the end of her days on this planet.

But her light is not little at all. It is bright, and it is

beautiful, just like Tricia.

My office, our community members, our planet — we are all better

off, thanks to Tricia Datene’s long life of service to others. I love

her deeply for who she is.

FRATERNAL ORDER OF EAGLES

D. Routley: Today I would like to recognize the Fraternal Order of Eagles

organization and the amazing work they do in communities throughout our

province. Founded February 6, 1898, in Seattle by six theatre owners,

the Eagles developed or originated Mother’s Day and provided the impetus

for social security in the U.S. They unite in the spirit of liberty,

truth, justice and equality to make human life more desirable by

lessening its ills and by promoting peace, prosperity, gladness and

hope.

Next month is their provincial convention, which will be held in

my constituency for the first time ever, hosted by Ladysmith branch

2101. Although considered a small town, Ladysmith is home to one of the

largest Eagles branches in the province, with roughly 700 members who

collectively raise over $100,000 every year, which is donated right back

into our community.

I want to recognize two members of their organization, the first

of whom is Joey Lasaga, who has dedicated ten years to the organization

and served as Provincial Worthy President over the past year. During his

time, he travelled to 19 aeries in the province with his wife, Courtney,

and one-year-old son, Brewster, where they raised close to $15,000 for

his chosen charity, Alzheimer’s.

I also want to recognize Bobbi Williamson, who will be installed

as provincial madam president at the upcoming convention — a woman — and

will begin her term of travelling across the province to raise money for

her chosen charity, mental health child and youth services. Like Joey,

Bobbi has spent many years volunteering, fundraising and supporting

various causes and organizations in our community. Bobbi and her

husband, Ken, have two grown children, three grandchildren and one

great-grandson.

[10:45 a.m.]

Our communities are stronger because of people like Joey and

Bobbi, and I would like to ask the House to please join me in thanking

them for their many years of service.

Ministerial Statements

LE Estcwicwéy̓ MEMORIAL

EVENT

FOR MISSING CHILDREN

AT KAMLOOPS RESIDENTIAL

SCHOOL

Hon. M. Rankin: Next Friday, May 27, will mark one year since the preliminary

findings of unmarked graves on the grounds of the former Kamloops Indian

Residential School.

For the Tk’emlúps te Secwépemc, they are known as Le

Estcwicwéy̓, or the missing.

Finding Le Estcwicwéy̓ began a

national awakening, as the rest of the country came to terms with what

the survivors of residential schools had always known about the

atrocities that happened there. Since then, many other Indigenous

communities in B.C. and across the country have announced similar

findings. There will be more in the months and years to come as

Indigenous communities take on this work.

On Monday, May 23, Tk’emlúps te Secwépemc will host a community

event to commemorate Le Estcwicwéy̓,

the missing, and to honour them and to give strength to survivors,

intergenerational survivors and to their families. We know that many

will be travelling from all over Canada and the United States to this

event to honour, to reflect and to take

part in community

healing.

I commend the unwavering leadership and the courage of the

Tk’emlúps te Secwépemc people to bring healing to families and to

intergenerational survivors. I also commend the many communities and

their leaders who have undertaken this painful and this difficult work

to find answers for the generation of survivors and families.

Kúkpi7 Casimir has said that it was the Le

Estcwicwéy̓, the children, who

had brought us together, Indigenous and non-Indigenous alike, as we

grapple with the full truth of the immeasurable loss and the shocking

violence that the Canadian residential school system inflicted on

Indigenous peoples, and how the consequences of these atrocities

continue to this day.

The missing remind us that we have a responsibility to uncover the

truth about Canada’s colonial history, to face the continued harms of

residential schools to this day and to take meaningful action towards

reconciliation for future generations. In certain cases, this means

confronting Indigenous-specific racism and confronting those narratives

that seek to deny or to diminish the harms of the residential school

system.

I will close by echoing the words of Kúkpi7 Rosanne Casimir.

“There are many more steps to journey forward for those who did not make

it home.” I invite members of this House, and everyone across British

Columbia, to honour Le Estcwicwéy̓.

There’s a role and responsibility for each of us to stand as leaders and

to help bring respect to where there has been indignity, comfort where

there has been pain, and closure where there has been generations of

harm.

P. Milobar: Thank you to the minister for those words. As the minister said,

it’s been nearly a year since the confirmation of the 215 children in

unmarked graves in at the Kamloops residential school on the Tk’emlúps

te Secwépemc traditional territories.

That has led to quite the process over this last year, of

awakening, of leadership, of Indigenous communities across this country

informing the rest of us about their true history and the true trauma

that has been inflicted by the residential school system, a residential

school system that is not that old, for when it closed.

I think that is one learning that a great many people finally

started to come to understand after the discovery of the 215 — that this

is not something that ended 100 years ago. The last school closed not

that long ago.

As the father of three Indigenous children — the oldest was born

in ’93 — I missed that window of the knock on the door, but not by

much.

[10:50 a.m.]

We have to, as a society, make sure that we actually meaningfully

engage with the leadership shown by Kúkpi7 Casimir and all the other

Indigenous leaders out there. Kamloops may have been the first, but as

the minister pointed out rightly, it’s not the last. We know there will

be more. The leadership from communities where their children were sent

if they did not have a school in their terri­tories, the

leadership of communities where these schools were located.

It’s a first step. The remembrance on Monday is an important,

solemn day to remember but to make sure that it’s not just a yearly

reminder and then we move on about our lives for the next 364 days. We

have to continue to take daily steps to work with Indigenous

communities, to listen to communities and walk in step with them on what

they need to heal and move forward in a meaningful way.

There is no disputing the intergenerational trauma that these

institutions inflicted on people and on families and on communities.

Until we as a nation fully accept that and fully move forward properly,

there will always be that underlying conflict.

I salute Kúkwpi7 Casimir and all of the leadership for continuing

to make their voices heard in their community, for sharing their very

painful family histories and personal histories and traumas they’ve

experienced so that true and meaningful reconciliation can actually

happen, and we can all get to a better place, hopefully in the

not-too-distant future.

A. Olsen: I stand here to mark the one-year anniversary of when we were

awoken with the reality of the fate of hundreds, thousands of Indigenous

children who disappeared and never came home from residential

school.

To all our relatives, all our Elders, all our residential and

day-school survivors, to the following generations of survivors of these

genocidal acts perpetrated by this and other Crown governments, I raise

my hands to you for your strength, for your resilience, for your

patience, for your long suffering, for your willingness to share your

traumatic, tragic and heartbreaking stories.

To the children whose names have been lost, misplaced or hidden in

the archives of governments and churches, whose shame motivates them to

hide you, you may have been conveniently forgotten by the state and by

the church. You have not been forgotten by your descendants. We remember

you. We love you. I can feel you here with us today, I felt you here

earlier this week, and I felt you here last year.

HÍSW̱ḴE

SIÁM. .

Last summer a temporary and impromptu memorial to the 215-plus

children whose graves were identified at the Kamloops Indian Residential

School and announced by Tk’emlúps te Secwepemc Kúkwpi7 Rosanne Casimir

grew on the steps of this Legislative Assembly. For months, people

stopped to pay tribute to our lost and stolen children who didn’t come

home from school.

It’s not easy sitting in this chamber and listening to the

intentions of reconciling this reprehensible history, yet when we

account for the reconciliatory actions, my heart is broken again and

again.

This year, like last year, I was told it was too difficult to

recognize Indigenous names on official government documentation. I was

told it’s very complex, and government is working on it. There’s more to

do.

Last week we heard $800 million is rewarding a museum that has

been identified as an unsafe place for Indigenous people, a place that

has proven unable to mend its broken relationship with Indigenous

people. This new and massive temple will store our innovations, our

technologies, our items of cultural significance, our sacred items,

while a few Indigenous nations will be tempted with $30,000 to

facilitate the repatriation of items that we want to bring home, a

process that costs way more than that paltry sum.

In the comments I’ve heard this week, this government has a warped

view of what these items mean when they sit in these museum collections.

They implore us to join them in front of the glass case, to peer through

with wonder at the so-called collective history, awestruck at the

curated snapshot in time.

On this floor of this chamber, an institutional ignorance has been

exposed, an unwillingness to acknowledge the truth that many or most of

those items locked away in the museum basements were collected through

grave robberies.

[10:55 a.m.]

Many more of those items were collected by further exploiting

destitute Indigenous peoples ravaged by a fatal virus. This was all

happening in our province at the same time as the residential schools

such as Kamloops were being designed to assimilate the Indian

children.

Just as this Crown institution was stealing our cultural items,

our innovations and technologies, stealing bones and caskets of our

ancestors, they were creating the institutions charged with stealing our

children, our languages and attempting to strip us of our identity and

culture.

Then in 2022, we are told that it is different, difficult and

confusing to create a font and keyboard for Indigenous people to be

called by our names. We are notified that our food and our medicines are

pests, sprayed with poison or destroyed by a brush cut to ensure the

value of timber is not diminished.

The public is told government is doubling forestry revenues for

Indigenous nations. It sounds big, doesn’t it? Yet this government has

increased the share from 4 to 8 percent. Maybe I’m just

ungrateful.

But Indigenous people are resilient. We’re proud. We are powerful.

No matter what this Crown institution does or has done to us, we stand

in here today, gathering strength from deep within our life force, given

to us by our Creator and brought to life through our relationship with

our relatives. This morning for me it was the islands, the mountains,

the trees, the crow, the raven, the rabbit, the deer — all the beauty

that feeds our spirit.

We have begun discussions about how this facility and this

precinct can better reflect the more than 30 distinct Indigenous

languages in this province. As we mark the one-year anniversary of that

announcement by Kúkpi7 Casimir, the awakening for many British

Columbians has begun. This assembly is surrounded by monuments of our

colonial past, and we need a permanent reminder of that memorial that

grew on those front steps.

I hope that we can find a way to ensure that every person walking

through that ceremonial gate will have to stop and acknowledge those

children and what they have come to symbolize with respect to the work

of true reconciliation. It’s too easy to walk through these doors

without the burden that our predecessors gave us and far too easy to

manipulate reconciliation for the benefit of something other than

Indigenous people.

Mr. Speaker, that is what needs to change.

HÍSW̱ḴE SIÁM.

Oral Questions

ACCESS TO FAMILY PHYSICIANS

AND GOVERNMENT FUNDING

PRIORITIES

S. Bond: Well, another large crowd will gather on the front lawn of the

Legislature today, and they are certainly not coming to celebrate the

Premier’s billion-dollar vanity museum project. No, in fact, they are

going to be parents. They will be families, and there will be children,

and they will be here to remind government that they are unable to get a

family doctor in our province.

Some of them are in gallery today, including Camille Currie, whose

petition has garnered over 42,000 signatures. Amanda Owens, who signed

the petition, said: “It is absolutely disgusting that the government is

willing to approve funding for a museum while we are in dire need of

health care workers. Nurses and family doctors must be

prioritized.”

A simple question. Why on earth is a billion-dollar vanity project

more important to this NDP government than British Columbians who are

anxious, upset and concerned that they cannot access a family doctor in

this province?

Hon. A. Dix: Well, for five years and for the last two years and three months

during this pandemic, no government and nobody has given more priority

to health care and to health care workers than this

government.

There are 30,000 more people working in health care today than

there were two years ago. This is an objective fact and demonstrates not

the fact that we want necessarily more people working in health care

because of itself but because of the need to provide care.

[11:00 a.m.]

With respect to family practice doctors, in March 2020, we faced a

fundamental question, which was how to deliver care when the system was

changing, when we had a pandemic on, when people were not able to visit

their family practice doctors.

Working with family practice doctors, we developed solutions,

including new fee codes that allow us to increase the number of visits

from 18 million to 19.5 million in two years. We did that in a virtual

system that showed innovation and care. I’m very proud of the work of

family practice doctors in this period, and we’re going to continue to

do that work with them to address the issues they have in providing care

in the community.

The member will know, because the facts are simply the facts from

Statistics Canada, that the number of people without a family practice

doctor in B.C. doubled from 2003 to 2017. That work and the challenges

facing family practice specialty and family practice medicine are

significant. That’s why we’re doing the work we’re doing to work with

family practice doctors, to develop lasting solutions for the issues

they face but, more particularly, for the issues of those who need

family practice medicine in B.C. and need better primary care in our

province.

That’s why we’re doing the work, as we have done throughout the

pandemic, to address these issues step by step, working together with

all health care workers and professionals across all

disciplines.

Mr. Speaker: Member for Prince George–Valemount, supplemental.

S. Bond: Thank you to the minister.

Day after day after day in this Legislature, the minister gets up

and fails to acknowledge the reality of family practice physicians and

families in British Columbia. If the minister wants to talk about

objective facts, he should look in his own briefing book when it comes

to the number of unattached patients.

I will quote from his briefing note: “In 2017-2018, the number of

unattached patients was 776,000.” The minister can shake his head. His

staff wrote this briefing note.

Let’s talk about some other objective facts. The priorities of

this government are painfully clear: massive raises for the Premier and

cabinet and a billion-dollar vanity museum project.

Interjections.

S. Bond: Well it may cause discomfort to members, but that is exactly what

this government did.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

S. Bond: The Minister of Health recently confirmed to us in a letter that

urgent and primary care centres have attached less than 2 percent — less

than 2 percent — of the people who don’t have a doctor in this province.

Let’s talk about objective facts, shared directly with us by this

minister.

In the Premier’s backyard, the Westshore UPCC has just one doctor

of the 7.2 it is supposed to have. The Westshore Community Health Centre

has no health providers, and only 1.2 administrative staff

FTEs.

Richmond’s primary care network has been running for three years.

It is supposed to have 32 full-time-equivalent physicians. For the

minister’s information, it has one doctor.

How on earth can this Premier and government continue to double

down and move forward with a billion-dollar vanity museum project when

urgent and primary care centres don’t even have the doctors that they

are supposed to have?

Hon. A. Dix: Health care is and remains the priority of this government. That’s

been demonstrated, in substance, from the beginning. It goes across

health care, and family practice doctors know this better than anyone

else.

In long-term care, 85 percent of care homes didn’t meet the

government’s own standard. We changed that by investing and giving

urgency to it. In terms of surgical renewal, when we made the very

difficult decision to delay surgeries in March of 2020, we promised

people we would get those surgeries done and we have, reducing surgical

wait-lists in those periods.

When the whole primary care system was facing an enormous

challenge, we worked together with family practice doctors to make

changes that allowed us to maintain services during this period. Yes,

we’ve added, in cooperation with divisions of family practice, 59

primary care networks. We’ve added urgent and primary care centres that

have delivered 1.084 million visits, largely in a time of pandemic when

in-person visits were needed.

[11:05 a.m.]

These are all steps, and more steps are required. We’ve faced,

every single year since 2001, an increase in the number of people

unattached to a family practice doctor. Plans were put in place in the

past, including in 2010, where one was promised for everybody, and those

plans were abandoned.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Hon. A. Dix: Those plans were abandoned in the past. We need an approach that

works with family practice doctors to address the problems they have,

that works with resident doctors to make family practice more attractive

to them.

We are going to continue to work together with them in the same

way we did on single-site, in the same we did on surgery, in the same

way we did on long-term care, in the same way we did during the

pandemic.

R. Merrifield: One in five British Columbians don’t have a doctor, and the

minister continues to try and deflect away from that fact. We have

250,000 additional unattached patients under this minister’s watch. It’s

no wonder that we have less than 2 percent of this million people

without a family doctor that have found any attachment in the UPCCs that

this minister brags about, because there are no doctors working at

them.

In the Abbotsford UPCC, there is half a doctor — half. There are

supposed to be six. In South Okanagan Similkameen primary care network,

there are seven nurse practitioners but absolutely zero doctors out of

the 6.4 approved physician FTEs.

How can the Premier spend a billion dollars on a vanity museum

project while there are UPCCs with no doctors in them?

Hon. A. Dix: As the member will know, in 2020, we had a pandemic declared in

B.C. The need and the change and the transformation in primary care that

was urgently required was significant.

Urgent and primary care centres were one part of that. We have had

1.084 million visits. If the members are suggesting it would be better

if we hadn’t had those 1.084 million visits, they’re

incorrect.

We have established 59 primary care networks….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members, order.

Hon. A. Dix: We have 59 primary care networks that have attached 142,000

people. That is a fact, and that’s the work of family practice doctors

and the community. We’ve increased the family practice residency program

to make it the biggest in Canada. We’ve made it the biggest in

Canada.

What we need to do, it seems to me, is continue our work with

family practice doctors. That’s what we do. That’s how we’ve taken on

these extraordinary health care challenges in this time of pandemic, in

this time of the overdose public health emergencies — how we’ve taken on

these challenges together. And we’re going to continue to do that

work.

That means investing in primary care, not abandoning it. That

means investing in surgical care, not abandoning it. That means building

hospital projects in the member’s constituency who is heckling and the

other member who’s heckling and the other member who’s heckling — new

hospital projects that demonstrate the priority of health of this

government.

We’re just going to continue to do that work, working with our

health care professionals and our health care teams who have served us

with courage and integrity and professionalism in this pandemic. We’re

going to continue to work with them to keep working and resolving

problems.

Mr. Speaker: Member for Kelowna-Mission, supplemental.

R. Merrifield: While the minister wants to brag about residency positions opened,

he might want to actually confirm that those residency positions were

filled, because in speaking with some physicians this morning at

breakfast, I learned that for the first time in the history of British

Columbia, those residency positions were not filled.

The UPCCs are ineffective, and it’s time for this minister to

recognize it. British Columbians are desperate and not buying the UPCC

way.

[11:10 a.m.]

The NDP think a billion-dollar vanity museum project is more

important than the fact that one in five British Columbians don’t have a

family doctor. In the primary care network for White Rock and South

Surrey, there are only 33 percent of the doctors that there are supposed

to be. Somia Medler says: “We need to do better. Closing down emergency

rooms, and no walk-in clinics, is ridiculous. We need doctors and

nurses.”

Why on earth is the Premier spending a billion dollars on a vanity

museum project when one in five British Columbians don’t have a family

doctor?

Hon. A. Dix: I think people in B.C. know this — that the effort of the B.C.

health system over the last 2½ years has been exceptional. We are

focusing on continuing that work, on continuing to make

improvements.

The member talks about primary care networks, some urgent and

primary care centres. The one that serves her constituency, at least the

one in Kelowna — 25 positions, 25 filled, 78,815 visits. I note that

that wasn’t raised by the hon. member, but it is for people who live in

her constituency.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Members.

Member for Kamloops.

Hon. A. Dix: Hon. Speaker, I think what we’re seeing…. I understand the

opposition is tied to its message boxes. I’m tied to getting answers for

people.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Members, order.

Members. Members will come to order.

Hon. A. Dix: We have a system of primary care in B.C. that has been in need of

reform for a long time. We need to deliver on team-based care, and we’re

doing that in partnership with family practice doctors.

We need to work to resolve the issues that they have in

communities — fundamental issues of cost, of increasing complexity of

patients that they are seeing in their communities, a fee-for-service

system that inadequately reflects the work that is done by our family

practice doctors every day.

We need to do that work together — not me declaring what we’re

going to do but working with family practice doctors. And that’s what

we’re going to continue to do.

ACCESS TO FAMILY PHYSICIANS AND

MANAGEMENT OF PRIMARY

CARE SYSTEM

S. Furstenau: Many of us were at the same breakfast this morning with family

doctors. I think what we heard was that doctors don’t feel that they’re

being worked with or listened to particularly right now.

One in five British Columbians do not have a family doctor, and

many more are at risk of losing the doctor they have. This government

has done astonishingly little in this moment of crisis for longitudinal

care.

The reality is that in this province, if you’re a family doctor

providing lifelong medical care, your relationship with your patient is

not valued. Family doctors are burning out trying to meet the needs of

their patients, but it’s becoming harder and harder.

Their solutions are not impossible. They’re right there on the

table, if the Premier or the Minister of Health was willing to look at

them. Family doctors have been consistent about what they need right

now. They need overhead support to pay for rent, staff and

administration. They need to work as a team and to be supported in that.

They need billing rates that reflect their 12 years of education, their

value to the health of British Columbians.

The minister talks about how new fee codes were brought in for

virtual visits at the beginning of the pandemic. We don’t have the

ability for doctors to address the difference between a five-minute

visit and a 25-minute visit for complex care. We don’t even have a fee

code yet for long COVID.

The other thing that doctors need is…. They need to work

independently of this government’s attempts of control.

My question is to the Premier. What is he doing to support the

family doctors who serve their patients outside of urgent and primary

care centres?

[11:15 a.m.]

Hon. A. Dix: I think the member knows this. She has participated in the

legislative debate. In primary care networks across B.C., we’ve added

965 FTEs. One can always argue that that’s insufficient, but that was

directed.

The decisions to hire the people that were hired were directed and

supported by local divisions of family practice in all of those cases,

such that in the Fraser northwest primary care network, very significant

hiring was done of mental health supports and counsellors, 176 new

mental health and addiction workers to support the work that’s led by

primary care doctors in the community.

The reason those decisions were made was that those were the

priorities put forward by family practice doctors themselves. We have to

continue to do that work, to build team-based care and to work to

address the challenges of the primary care system.

The member is quite right. We have the most fee-for-service system

in Canada. It’s about 80 percent of our billings, and about 65 percent

of our doctors get more than 80 percent of their billings from

fee-for-service. That presents very serious challenges in a time of

increasing complexity. That’s why we have to work with doctors on these

issues, and we are.

Mr. Speaker: Leader of the Third Party, supplemental.

S. Furstenau: What I find fascinating about these exchanges is that the minister

will talk a lot about inputs. But what we’re talking about is the

outcomes and the reality that people are facing right now and the fact

that it is family doctors who are telling us over and over again that

the conditions right now are causing burnout, are causing them to leave

their practices.

Who suffers the outcomes from that? Those are the patients who no

longer have access to the longitudinal care that we know provides better

health outcomes for people. Family doctors are the backbone of medical

care in this province, and British Columbians are better off by having

that relationship with a family doctor. We know that good family

medicine prevents illness. It promotes well-being, and it saves

lives.

This government has done very little to support that relationship

between doctors and their patients. In fact, those relationships are

being severed when doctors are given the option of going to UPCCs.

British Columbians are no better off when their relationship to their

doctor is severed by the policies of this government.

Yes, the minister talks about building this system, this primary

care system, but in the meantime, what we need is the protection of the

doctors right now who are providing that family care that is so valuable

and so essential.

The Premier has spoken publicly about the value of his

relationship with his family doctor. He should expect that for the

citizens of this province that he serves. Millions of British Columbians

are at risk of losing their family doctors.

What is this Premier going to do to protect that relationship and

put solutions in right now?

Hon. A. Dix: The Premier is committed to a system of team-based primary care in

community, is committed to ensuring that people have access to a family

practice doctor. It’s why so much priority is given to this area now,

has been throughout the pandemic and will be over the coming days and

weeks as we work with family practice doctors on the real challenges

that they face.

That’s what we’ve done. We have taken, day after day, week after

week, serious challenges facing our health care system, in a time of two

public health emergencies that continue to endure and to face family

practice doctors and everyone in health care every day….

It’s why we have added 30,000 workers to our public health care

system over two years, why we are going to continue at every level —

doctors and nurses, nurse practitioners and health science professionals

and health care workers — to do that work.

We’re going to continue to do that work, to build out team-based

care and to support family practice doctors. We understand…. I

understand, not only as someone who lives with a chronic disease but as

Minister of Health and someone who talks to patients every day, the

value of family practice medicine. That’s why we’re going to continue to

take steps to support.

SEISMIC UPGRADES FOR SCHOOLS

AND GOVERNMENT FUNDING

PRIORITIES

T. Halford: Instead of protecting our children from earthquakes, the NDP are

prioritizing the seismic upgrade of a $1 billion vanity museum

project.

[11:20 a.m.]

Not a single NDP minister has prioritized seismically upgrading

the 250 unsafe schools across this province over this vanity museum

project. The Minister of Land won’t speak about the Wickaninnish

Community School in Tofino. The Minister of Mental Health and Addictions

won’t speak up for the more than 30 schools in her riding that are

seismically unsafe. The Minister of Tourism — five unsafe schools in her

riding, including Grandview and Admiral Seymour Elementary.

Will even one of these ministers stand up and do the right thing

and call for the cancellation of this billion-dollar vanity

museum?

Hon. J. Whiteside: I’ll thank the member for the question, because I’m happy to have

an opportunity to talk about the unprecedented capital investments our

government has made since 2017 in providing safe and more learning

spaces for British Columbia’s children.

We did not close 250 schools over the last four years. No. What we

did was invest $3 billion over the last four years and another $2.6

billion in the next three years to build new schools, to build additions

at schools, to provide upgraded HVAC and ventilation, to take care of

maintenance and to seismically mitigate schools.

Since 2017, we’ve funded 58 projects. There’s another number of

projects in the hopper. We are committed to accelerating. We’ve done

more seismic upgrade projects….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Hon. J. Whiteside: …since the other side of the House ever did when they were on this

side.

Thirty-one thousand students are now in safe seats because of the

work that we’ve done. We have an accelerated plan to spend close to $800

million in the next three years, working in partnership with our school

districts to ensure that we are delivering more seismically safe seats

to students.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

K. Kirkpatrick: The minister can say what she wants. I’m not quite

sure….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Let’s hear the question please.

K. Kirkpatrick: I’m not quite sure why that would get applause. The minister can

say what she wants, but the bottom line for parents is that this NDP

government’s priority is a billion-dollar vanity museum project instead

of student safety, and $1 billion would upgrade half the remaining

schools that need seismic upgrading.

Even Hume Park Elementary in the Minister of Education’s own

riding is unsafe and in need of seismic upgrades, but she won’t speak

out on this project. Willows Elementary in Oak Bay is unsafe, but the

Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation is

silent.

Will any minister on the other side of the House stand up for

schools in their communities that need seismic upgrading and cancel this

vanity museum project?

Hon. J. Whiteside: I think the record is really clear when we look at the massive

investments that we have made against a record that, I would say, closed

schools, slow-walked seismic upgrading, cut…. Let’s not even get

into….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

[11:25 a.m.]

Hon. J. Whiteside: We can talk about what actually happened over the period of time

that you were here in regard to education. We can talk about going to

war with teachers and losing in the Supreme Court of Canada. We can talk

about lost positions. We can talk about students deprived of spaces to

learn and staff to support them.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Members.

Hon. J. Whiteside: But over the last four years, we’ve invested billions of dollars

in building out our education system, and we’re going to continue to do

that work over the next three years with a close to $800 million

investment for safe schools.

I would note that I think our expectation is that when British

Columbia’s children visit our provincial museum, which is a place of

learning, they do so in a seismically safe building.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

GOVERNMENT PRIORITIES

AND MUSEUM REPLACEMENT

PROJECT

T. Stone: Well, the fact of the matter is that this is what parents are

talking about. Parents of children that are in elementary and secondary

schools across this province that are in need of seismic upgrades are

begging for this government to provide them with a rational explanation

for why this government would prioritize $1 billion for a vanity museum

project in the Premier’s backyard over seismically upgrading half of the

remaining schools that need those upgrades. That’s a choice that this

government is making.

We just heard a school, Willows Elementary School in Oak Bay…. If

the Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation isn’t going to

stand up for children in his riding with respect to the seismic upgrades

at that elementary school, maybe he’ll respond to this scathing

statement from the Tŝilhqot’in Nation which was released yesterday.

They’re calling on the NDP…

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

T. Stone: …to scrap the Premier’s billion-dollar vanity museum

project.

Here’s what Chief Joe Alphonse has to say: “The timing for this

nearly $1 billion spending proposal could not be more tone deaf. It is

irresponsible of this government to move ahead with this when so many

issues remain unaddressed in the province.”

The Premier’s vanity museum project is actually quickly becoming

one of the most expensive museum projects, potentially, to ever be built

in the world. It’s fast becoming a fast ferries 2.0 project.

The question to the Minister of Indigenous Relations is this. Is

the Minister of Indigenous Relations going to listen to the Tŝilhqot’in,

Is he going to listen to the parents of Willows Elementary in Oak Bay,

and is he going to listen to the overwhelming population in British

Columbia that wants this government to scrap the $1 billion vanity

museum project?

Hon. M. Farnworth: I thank the member for his question, because it’s an opportunity

to remind the opposition that we have been listening to parents of

schoolkids. We have been listening to parents of families right across

this province since day one.

When they sat on this side of the House, they “had a seismic

upgrading program” that had a goal. They didn’t meet it, so they had to

extend it because they failed to meet their own targets. This side of

the House has been investing in…

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Hon. M. Farnworth: …seismic upgrading of schools since the day we took office. We

have made sure that public infrastructure, whether it is schools,

whether it is hospitals — that all of those things are seismically

upgraded.

I’ll remind the members on the other side. It doesn’t matter

whether it’s Burnaby Hospital, Dawson Creek Hospital in one of your

ridings, Fort St. James hospital in one of your ridings, Kamloops Royal

Inland Hospital in one of your ridings, Terrace hospital in one of your

ridings….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Hon. M. Farnworth: They’re all being built to be seismically upgraded.

I find it unbelievable…

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members from Kamloops.

Hon. M. Farnworth: …that a public facility where kids go to learn…. They don’t think

it should be seismically upgraded.

[End of question period.]

Petitions

S. Bond: I rise to table two petitions. The first is a petition organized by

Camille Currie and others from B.C. Health Care Matters.

[11:30 a.m.]

With 41,544 signatures, the petition expresses “deep frustration about

the ongoing exodus and shortage of family doctors in our province and this

government’s failure to address these. We are petitioning you for an

immediate response that will include an action plan to rectify this

crisis.”

I have another petition, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker: Continue.

S. Bond: The second petition is also from Camille Currie, with 480 signatures

gathered from right here in Victoria, calling on the government to

immediately act on the doctor shortage crisis.

Tabling Documents

Hon. M. Farnworth: I have the honour to table the first annual report of the ICBC

fairness officer for the year 2021-22.

Orders of the Day

Hon. M. Farnworth: In this chamber, I call Committee of Supply estimates debate, Ministry of

Finance.

In the Douglas Fir Room, I call continued estimates debate for the

Ministry of Lands, Water and Resource Stewardship.

Committee of Supply

ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF

FINANCE

(continued)

The House in Committee of Supply (Section B);

S. Chandra Herbert in the chair.

The committee met at 11:33 a.m.

On Vote 26: ministry operations, $318,847,000

(continued) .

Hon. S. Robinson: I want to acknowledge that we have some school children here in

the chamber, and I want to let them know that I want to say welcome.

We’re just going through the process of estimates, where the Finance

critic across the way is going to be asking me, as Minister of Finance,

questions about the budget. I look forward to taking his questions, and

you’ll get to witness that here today.

P. Milobar: I just have a few questions. I’ll try to keep them very tight, and

hopefully we can get a quick turnaround and then we can wrap things up,

maybe by lunch. If not, we may have to go after, because these are some

critically important questions in terms of understanding where some

dollars are in the budget.

I do just want to start with one anecdote from this morning. It

was right before I saw the Solicitor General, actually, walking over to

the lunch. There were two young girls walking behind me.

[11:35 a.m.]

For those at home that might think we’re in this chamber and think

people aren’t paying attention…. They were about 12 and 14.They were

having a little conversation. I couldn’t help but overhear. As we were

walking in front, by the museum corner, one said, “Yeah, it’s going to

be $1 billion,” and the other said: “I wish I had $1 billion, because

then I could afford a house.” I just say that because it’s actually what

they said.

They went on talking about where they could live — Vancouver, here

and that. But I think it just sums up what youth are even thinking in

our province right now about the challenges of unaffordability, the

prioritization of spending and the fiscal capabilities of government to

not be able to do all things for all people.

We’ve confirmed that the labour agreement for the half a million —

public sector — will be out of the $2.848 billion in contingencies. Can

the minister confirm whether or not the doctors contract negotiations

and the finalizations of those would count as part of the half a

million, or are they separate from the half a million? If so, where in

the budget are they identified to come out of? Is it part of that $2.848

billion contingencies, or is it somewhere else?

Hon. S. Robinson: I also want to let the students know that the people around me are

my staff, and they help me to answer the questions.

I haven’t confirmed anything, because the negotiations are

underway, and negotiations happen at the negotiation table.

P. Milobar: Well, my understanding is that the contract was up or needed to be

renewed April 1. They’re working on old…. So it would have been planned

for, surely, in this fiscal plan that a new agreement would have to be

struck. Surely there must have been some notional dollar. Now, I’m not

asking what dollar figure the minister has set aside for those

negotiations. I’m simply asking if the doctors negotiation is part of

the half a million, which we’ve established. A 1 percent raise would be

$386 million and come out of contingencies.

So does it come out of the contingencies? Is it part of that half

a million, or is it a separate and distinct negotiation? And where in

the budget has that been contemplated? Is it in that $2.8 billion

contingencies or other?

Hon. S. Robinson: Doctors are included as a part of the overall package.

P. Milobar: Okay. Just to confirm, when the minister said a 1 percent increase

would equate to $386 million to the treasury, doctors were included in

that calculation of how to get to 1 percent and $386 million.

[11:40 a.m.]

Hon. S. Robinson: Yes.

P. Milobar: The RCMP also have retroactive pay coming to them. Municipally,

they’re responsible for 90 percent of that cost. For the provincial

members, the province will be responsible for 30 percent, I think it is.

Or is it 70? I can never remember which cut the province has

there.

Either way, there will be a cost to the provincial government for

provincial members for retroactive pay increases to the RCMP. Is that

part of the $386 million calculation as well, and if not, where in the

budget has that been accounted for?

Hon. S. Robinson: I’ll direct the member to page 17 of the budget book, where it

says: “Budget 2022 allocates $233 million of the fiscal plan period to

fund public safety initiatives and negotiated wage enhancements for

Royal Canadian Mounted Police to continue public safety measures,

especially in rural and remote regions of the province.” That’s in the

Ministry of PSSG.

P. Milobar: If I could get similar confirmation, then, around dollars for the

prosecution service contract negotiations. Really, what I’m trying to

drill into is whether or not it’s picked up in the $2.848 billion worth

of contingencies, and if so, is that still part of the $386 million, or

is it separate and independent of that calculation?

Hon. S. Robinson: They’re included.

P. Milobar: For further clarification with the RCMP number — because it is a

large number and not unexpected, more so for the Minister of Finance

than the Public Safety Minister — has the Minister of Finance accounted

for that increase on page 17 as part of the $2.848 billion

contingencies, or is it in a different part of the budget?

Hon. S. Robinson: It’s separate.

P. Milobar: There has been a lot of talk over the last few years about road

pricing, in the Lower Mainland especially. Just today there has been

more mention of it by the Energy Minister about how that’s something

that may have to be considered. The Environment Minister mentioned it in

his estimates as well.

The Minister of Finance has referenced how she and the Minister of

Environment — who are chair and vice-chair of Treasury Board, I might

add, so fairly significant spending authorities within those two roles —

have been having ongoing discussions around CleanBC, around carbon tax

generation, around other measures that might be needed.

[11:45 a.m.]

Are there any calculations in this budget, in either this year’s

fiscal or the next two years’ fiscals that are captured in this budget

book, around modelling or potential revenues or what something like a

road-pricing system in the Lower Mainland would look like, based on the

fact we have an Energy Minister who’s also part of the low-carbon

economy — I believe that’s his title — and you have the Environment

Minister, both openly talking about it during this time

frame.

Hon. S. Robinson: No, it’s not in this budget.

P. Milobar: Is it not in this budget because it’s been completely dismissed

out of hand, or is it just not in this budget because of ongoing

discussions on how the province’s revenues and supports may be leveraged

to make road pricing a thing that actually happens in the Lower

Mainland?

As I say, we have two fairly high-ranking ministers both talking

about it publicly right now, so I think the public is starting to get a

little nervous to hear carbon taxes going up to $65 next year, $80 the

year after. And then they’re hearing road tolling being talked about in

the Lower Mainland — road pricing, mobility pricing, whatever tag you

want to put on it — by both the Minister of Environment and the Minister

of Energy and Low Carbon.

It leads one to believe discussions are well underway on how to

make that happen. Obviously, the provincial treasury would need to be

involved with TransLink and local governments in the Lower

Mainland.

Hon. S. Robinson: I want to assure the member that my experience as a minister over

the last five years has been that ministers are always looking for ways

to engage the public around conversations to help address challenges

that we all face. But I can assure the member that that road pricing

that he is talking about is not in this year’s budget.

P. Milobar: Well, it’s not in this year’s budget, but this is a three-year

budget document. We already know that carbon tax…. Although in this

document it shows it at $50 next year, the minister stated yesterday

that the intention is to go to $65 next year to keep in step with the

federal regulations.

We know that the minister has said that she is in discussion with

the Minister of Environment on how to pull programs and initiatives

together as that increase happens from $50 to $65 next year. The

Minister of Environment has said that he is willing to consider and

discussing road tolling, road pricing, mobility pricing — whatever term

you would like. Just today we have the Energy Minister saying it’s

something that he’s open to considering and willing to

consider.

Has the Minister of Finance, in her discussions with the Minister

of Environment in preparation for the shift to a $65 carbon tax,

climbing to $80 in the last year of this budget book…? Has that been one

of the discussion points with the Minister of Environment, with the

Finance Minister around potential options, moving forward, as we see

carbon tax increase?

Hon. S. Robinson: I’m sure the member knows full well that ministers always engage

in a variety of ideas about how to address various challenges. These two

ministers are doing that, engaging with various component parts — their

stakeholders, their constituents — identifying ways to address GHG

reductions. So as I have said in my previous response, they’re doing

their job, and I can assure the member that we don’t have that in this

three-year fiscal plan that we have presented to the House.

[11:50 a.m.]

P. Milobar: But again, there are things missing in this plan that relate

directly to GHG emissions and carbon taxation and discussions with the

Environment Minister.

I guess I’ll ask it a different way. The Minister of Finance, as

very clearly stated yesterday, is in discussions with the Minister of

Environment around options to change things within the fiscal plan,

which is outlined in front of us today, over the next two years as

carbon taxes increase. The Minister of Environment has made it clear

that he’s supportive of road tolling, road pricing and mobility pricing.

I’m going to assume he’s had preliminary discussions, at least, with the

Minister of Finance. That would seem shocking to me that he

didn’t.

We have the Minister of Environment and Minister of Energy now,

today, saying similar statements around being open and agreeable to the

concept. Is the Minister of Finance also open and agreeable to that

concept?

Hon. S. Robinson: The member had asked me to be quick on my feet, so I’m hoping I’m

obliging him today.

The member stated that he’s making a number of assumptions, and I

would tend to agree that he’s making some assumptions. I have answered

the question. Ministers — their responsibility is to go out and talk

about ideas, different opportunities and different ways of delivering on

their mandates.

Again, I can assure the member that we have not incorporated road

tolling into this budget. I can’t point to a page that says it’s not

here, because it’s not here. I hope that satisfies the member, We’ve

had, now, three questions on this. I have provided him with an answer,

and I hope that’s satisfactory to him.

P. Milobar: Well, to be clear, that wasn’t the question. The only assumption I

made, because…. The minister would neither confirm nor deny that she’s

had discussions with the Environment Minister in regards to a suite of

other environment initiatives as carbon tax goes to $65 and then $80 in

this financial plan. Whether or not road tolling, road pricing, mobility

pricing is an option that’s been discussed…. I assume that it must have

been, given the hesitancy to answer.

The actual question — and really, only the minister can answer

this — is whether or not she is open, given that she has her two energy-

and carbon-type ministers both saying that they publicly support road

tolling, road pricing and mobility pricing…? Is the minister also in

agreement that that’s a viable option to consider?

[11:55 a.m.]

Hon. S. Robinson: I was just confirming some dates. I wanted to make sure that I had

them correctly. It was announced in October 2021 that we would be

undertaking a carbon pricing review. I stated — I’m losing track of the

days; I don’t know if it was yesterday or the day before — that we would

getting that review before the end of the year. Road tolling is not part

of that conversation.

P. Milobar: Hopefully we can just squeeze this in real quick. I notice that

the royalty review has been released publicly now. It is slated to have

the royalties to go from 3 to 5 percent. It accounts for an extra couple

hundred million dollars. There are some credit changes as well. Was any

of that contemplated in this budget to begin with or will it show up in

the first quarter results with that change?

Hon. S. Robinson: It was not contemplated in this budget.

The Chair: Seeing no further questions, the minister has moved the vote.

The question is on Vote 26.

Vote 26: ministry operations, $318,847,000 — approved.

Vote 27: government communications and public engagement, $28,338,000

— approved.

Vote 28: B.C. Public Service Agency, $59,628,000 —

approved.

Vote 29: benefits and other employment costs, $1,000 —

approved.

ESTIMATES:

MANAGEMENT OF PUBLIC FUNDS AND

DEBT

Vote 46: management of public funds and debt, $1,378,388,000 —

approved.

ESTIMATES:

OTHER APPROPRIATIONS

Vote 47: contingencies (all ministries) and new programs,

$4,848,000,000 — approved.

Vote 48: capital funding, $3,733,581,000 — approved.

Vote 49: commissions on collection of public funds, $1,000 —

approved.

Vote 50: allowances for doubtful revenue accounts, $1,000 —

approved.

Vote 51: tax transfers, $2,044,000,000 — approved.

Hon. S. Robinson: I move that the committee rise, report resolutions and completion

and ask leave to sit again.

Motion approved.

The committee rose at 12 noon.

The House resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair.

Committee of Supply (Section B), having reported resolutions, was

granted leave to sit again.

Committee of Supply (Section A), having reported progress, was

granted leave to sit again.

Hon. S. Robinson moved adjournment of the House.

Motion approved.

Mr. Speaker: This House stands adjourned until 1 p.m. today.

The House adjourned at 12:01 p.m.

PROCEEDINGS IN THE

DOUGLAS FIR ROOM

Committee of Supply

ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF

LAND, WATER AND RESOURCE

STEWARDSHIP

The House in Committee of Supply (Section A); B. Bailey in the

chair.

The committee met at 11:37 a.m.

On Vote 38: ministry operations, $92,008,000.

The Chair: Minister, do you have opening remarks?

Hon. J. Osborne: I do.

First off, I want to acknowledge that we’re here today on the

territories of the

Lək̓ʷəŋin̓əŋ-speaking

peoples.

I want to thank everybody for coming. I want to welcome my critic,

the member for Cariboo-Chilcotin. I look forward to his questions, as

well as the questions of his colleagues and members from both parties of

the opposition.

I would like to introduce the staff who will be assisting me with

questions today, on estimates, over the next few hours. I have with me

Lori Halls, the deputy minister; David Muter, the assistant deputy

minister for land use, policy planning and ecosystems; James Mack, the

assistant deputy minister for water, fisheries, and coastal policy and

planning; and Sonja Martins, the assistant deputy minister and executive

financial officer for corporate services for the natural resource

ministries.

I have a few very brief opening remarks that I wanted to make

about the ministry before we get into dialogue today — on the 49th day,

in fact, of the existence of this new ministry.

In the throne speech, our government announced that it would

launch a new ministry to oversee better stewardship and management of

B.C.’s lands and resources. Following on more than one year of planning

led by the lands and natural resource operations secretariat, with

significant participation from natural resource ministries and in

consultation with First Nations and sector stakeholders, this

restructuring is a necessary and natural evolution of land and resource

management in British Columbia.

I’m very proud to be appointed the first minister of the new

Ministry of Land, Water and Resource Stewardship, to lead our

government’s work in building a new vision for land and resource

management with First Nations that will embrace shared decision-making

on the land base and further integrate key strategic land and resource

policies. These are changes that are needed to advance three things that

matter to British Columbians: meaningful reconciliation with Indigenous

peoples, a strong economy and environmental sustainability.

With that, hon. Chair, I look forward to questions from the

members opposite.

The Chair: I now recognize the member for Cariboo-Chilcotin and the

critic.

Would you like to make any opening remarks?

L. Doerkson: I will keep my remarks to a congratulations to you all.

Congratulations to you, Minister.

If appropriate, I’d like to ask the first question,

Chair.

The Chair: Go ahead.

[11:40 a.m.]

L. Doerkson: I want to start with just getting a bit of an understanding of how

the ministry was formed. My understanding is that staff have come from

at least two other ministries. I wanted to get a sense of how many

people will be working in the ministry and where those people are coming

from.

Hon. J. Osborne: The question is around how the ministry was formed and where staff

are coming from other ministries.

First of all, let me speak to the first point. The process that

led to the restructuring was a specific mandate item to the then

Minister of State for Lands and Natural Resource Operations. In his

letter specifically was an item to bring forward a plan to “create a new

ministry for lands and natural resource operations.”

Back in October 2021, the lands and natural resource operations

secretariat was established to develop restructuring options to better

achieve the three goals that I just spoke of: economic activity,

environmental sustainability and reconciliation with Indigenous

peoples.

A structured and principled approach, a transparent approach, was

used, based on the Queen’s University methodology for organizational

design. It was applied by the lands and natural resource operations

secretariat to undertake an organizational effectiveness review of the

natural resource sector.

The mandate concluded with the announcement of the new ministry as

part of Budget 2022, and my appointment as the minister on February 25

concluded that operation. The new ministry was born, if you will, on

April 1 — officially established with the duties and responsibilities

that it has.

The member opposite also had questions about where staff came from

other ministries. This is actually five different ministries who have

reassembled to form under this new one. What I’ll give you is some quite

close numbers, but there has been a bit of flux. There are some

refinements still to come, so please understand these are approximate

numbers.

From the then Ministry of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource

Operations and Rural Development, 718 staff; from the Ministry of

Environment and Climate Change Strategy, 400 staff; from Energy, Mines

and Low Carbon Innovation, six staff members; from Agriculture, Food and

Fisheries, 12 staff members; and from Indigenous Relations and

Reconciliation, there were five staff members.

The Chair: Thank you, Minister, and noting the hour.

Hon. J. Osborne: Noting the hour, hon. Chair, we’ve got one question

underway.

I move that the committee rise and report progress and ask leave

to sit again.

Motion approved.

The committee rose at 11:45 a.m.

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