Manitoba Hansard — 2 December 2024 (Sitting 9, 43rd Legislature, 2nd Session)

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Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Second Session – Forty-Third Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Tom Lindsey Speaker Vol. LXXIX No. 9 - 1:30 p.m., Monday, December 2, 2024 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-Third Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALTOMARE, Nello, Hon. Transcona NDP ASAGWARA, Uzoma, Hon. Union Station NDP BALCAEN, Wayne Brandon West PC BEREZA, Jeff Portage la Prairie PC BLASHKO, Tyler Lagimodière NDP BRAR, Diljeet Burrows NDP BUSHIE, Ian, Hon. Keewatinook NDP BYRAM, Jodie Agassiz PC CABLE, Renée, Hon. Southdale NDP CHEN, Jennifer Fort Richmond NDP COMPTON, Carla Tuxedo NDP COOK, Kathleen Roblin PC CROSS, Billie Seine River NDP DELA CRUZ, Jelynn Radisson NDP DEVGAN, JD McPhillips NDP EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FONTAINE, Nahanni, Hon. St.

Johns NDP GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach PC GUENTER, Josh Borderland PC HIEBERT, Carrie Morden-Winkler PC JACKSON, Grant Spruce Woods PC JOHNSON, Derek Interlake-Gimli PC KENNEDY, Nellie, Hon. Assiniboia NDP KHAN, Obby Fort Whyte PC KINEW, Wab, Hon. Fort Rouge NDP KING, Trevor Lakeside PC KOSTYSHYN, Ron, Hon. Dauphin NDP LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAMOUREUX, Cindy Tyndall Park Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas-Kameesak NDP LINDSEY, Tom, Hon. Flin Flon NDP LOISELLE, Robert St. Boniface NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Malaya, Hon. Notre Dame NDP MOROZ, Mike, Hon. River Heights NDP MOSES, Jamie, Hon. St.

Vital NDP MOYES, Mike Riel NDP NARTH, Konrad La Vérendrye PC NAYLOR, Lisa, Hon. Wolseley NDP NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC OXENHAM, Logan Kirkfield Park NDP PANKRATZ, David Waverley NDP PERCHOTTE, Richard Selkirk PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Turtle Mountain PC REDHEAD, Eric Thompson NDP SALA, Adrien, Hon. St. James NDP SANDHU, Mintu, Hon. The Maples NDP SCHMIDT, Tracy, Hon. Rossmere NDP SCHOTT, Rachelle Kildonan-River East NDP SCHULER, Ron Springfield-Ritchot PC SIMARD, Glen, Hon. Brandon East NDP SMITH, Bernadette, Hon. Point Douglas NDP STONE, Lauren Midland PC WASYLIW, Mark Fort Garry Ind.

WHARTON, Jeff Red River North PC WIEBE, Matt, Hon. Concordia NDP WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC

255 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Monday, December 2, 2024 The House met at 1:30 p.m. The Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee to frame such laws as may tend to the welfare and prosperity of our province. Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may seek it with wisdom, know it with certainty and accomplish it perfectly for the glory and honour of Thy name and for the welfare of all our people. Amen.

We acknowledge we are gathered on Treaty 1 territory and that Manitoba is located on the treaty territories and ancestral lands of the Anishinaabeg, Anishininewuk, Dakota Oyate, Denesuline, Nehethowuk nations. We acknowledge Manitoba is located on the Homeland of the Red River Métis. We acknowledge northern Manitoba includes lands that were and are the ancestral lands of the Inuit. We respect the spirit and intent of treaties and treaty making and rema in committed to working in partnership with First Nations, Inuit and Métis people in the spirit of truth, reconciliation and collaboration. Please be seated.

MATTER OF CONTEMPT Mr. Mark Wasyliw (Fort Garry): Matter of contempt. The Speaker: The honourable member for Fort Garry, on a matter of contempt. Mr. Wasyliw: I rise today on a matter of contempt, and I will briefly lay out the facts. This institution is governed by a respectful work- place policy. That policy covers all members of the Legislative Assembly, including the Premier (Mr. Kinew). One of the duties under that policy is that all members, including the Premier, must attend a respectful work place training seminar.

The Speaker has also made it clear that all members must attend a mandatory respectful workplace training seminar. On January 19, 2024, the Manitoba NDP caucus held its respectful work place training seminar, and the Premier was not present on that date. On an October 15, 2024, Executive Council Estimates Com- mittee meeting, I asked the Premier the date upon which he attended and completed the mandatory respectful workplace training seminar. He didn't know at the time, and despite having his phone with his calendar on it, he was unable to provide a response. He then took the matter under advisement.

Now, any minister, including the Premier, can take a matter under ad visement but has 45 days to provide that infor mation–that's rule 77(16) of our rules–and he must provide a written answer by tabling it in the House if we 're in session. Now, the due date for that information was November 29, 2024. It's now 47 days. Despite the Premier binding himself with a legal undertaking, that information has not been provided, and this is my first op portunity to raise this matter in the House.

I will table the official notice from the Clerk's office of the matter under advisement, includ- ing the transcript of the exchange where the Premier bound himself by a legal undertaking. Now, in relation, there's two matters here: it's both a matter of privilege and a matter of contempt. This matter–a breach of privilege is obviously punishable by this House and it deals with a disregard of or an attack on the rights and powers of the House and its members. As opposition members, we're tasked with hold- ing the govern ment to account.

We only have a few levers to formally be able to do that, and one of them is to ask questions in Estimates. We don' t ask these questions on our own behalf; we're doing so on behalf of the Manitoba people. We ask the questions that they would expect us to ask in order to hold the gov- ernment accountable in this democracy. By refusing to answer questions after claiming the Premier would provide that information, it prevents an MLA from doing their job and holding the govern - ment to an account. Now, in relation to contempt, any affront to the dignity and authority of this Legislature can be viewed as contempt.

This includes disobedience of its legiti- mate commands of its officers and contempts of the House. This Speaker has ordered mandatory respectful workplace training, including the Premier having to complete it. And the concern here is that it doesn't take very long to search a digital calendar for a date upon

256 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 2, 2024 which a member attended the mandatory respectful workplace. In fact, I found my date within about 20 seconds of searching. Now, the Premier (Mr. Kinew) is required to keep meticulous detailed scheduled calendar, and also has a whole army of staff to do that searching; it certainly wouldn't take him 47 days to look into a calendar to find out when he had done this.

And the fact that he was unable to do it in five minutes during the Estimates process, or 47 days of this Assembly, it leads me to the only possible inference that what really is going on here is that the Premier has not completed the mandatory respectful work place seminar, and he 's trying to avoid detection by this Legislature. Now, the reality of that is he's showing contempt of this House and for all other members who do abide by its rules. He 's showing contempt directly for the authority of the Speaker. This was the direction of the Speaker to complete the mandatory training.

He's also showing contempt for Manitobans, a certain level of entitlement and a lack of respect for the rules of this building. In 1999, the UK Joint Committee on Parliamentary Privilege issued a report listing various contempts of parliament scenarios, and they found that without reasonable excuse, the failure to answer a question or provide infor mation or produce papers formerly required by the House or a committee falls under this category. Now, under

section 34 of The Legislative Assembly Act, the Legislature has the power to compel the pro- duction of documents it deems necessary for any of its proceedings or deliberations.

Section 35(1) of the act also gives the Speaker the power to issue a warrant to compel the information, and

section 39 also gives the power of Assembly as a court of rec ord and possess all the rights and powers of a court under this section.

Section 40(2) of the Assembly act possesses all powers and jurisdiction by virtue of this section, and essentially what that means is the Legislature can govern its own processes, its own inquiries; it has the power to order production of documents for its functioning. The Supreme Court has also weighed in on this: House of Commons v. Vaid, V-A-I-D, 2005, 1 Supreme Court Report 667, held that the Legislature has the right to regulate its own internal affairs, including its debates, agenda and proceedings as they relate to its legislative and deliberative functions.

So, under our rules–and I'll acknowledge that our rules allow for a 45 -day period, but is silent as to a remedy as to what occurs when a minister has breached that order. By virtue of The Legis lative Assembly Act, by virtue of the Supreme Court, the Speaker has the power to impose a remedy despite it being silent within the rules, and to do otherwise, it would be nonsensical. Why have a rule to compel a minister to produce an answer or a document within 45 days and then have no conse quence or remedy at all if that minister fails to do it?

Essentially, if that were to allow to stand, it would absolutely render the –meaningless the Estimates process. Ministers could simply stand up and take everything under advise ment and then promptly ignore providing that information to the House. * (13:40) Obviously, that's not the in tention. The intention and the purpose of the rule is for accountability and transparency. And inherent in that purpose, this Chamber, and through the author ity of the Speaker, has that power. Now, most importantly, the Legislature has the right to compel these documents and we ask you to do so.

So, I move, seconded for the MLA for Spruce Woods, that this House censor the Premier for their disregard for the traditions and practices of the Legis- lative Assembly of Manitoba and their contempt for the people of Manitoba; and that this House order the Premier to produce the infor mation contained in the notice of advisement within 24 hours of the Speaker's ruling.

The Speaker: So before recognizing any other mem- bers to speak, I would remind members of the House that remarks made by –at this time by members are limited very strictly to relevant comments about whether the alleged matter of contempt has been raised at the earliest opportunity, and whether a prima facie case has been established. I would also point out to members that the motion is in order and the motion–the honour able Gov ern- ment House Leader. Hon.

Nahanni Fontaine (Government House Leader): First off, let me just say this: I apologize to members that are in the gallery because the member opposite likes to hear himself talk in this Chamber and likes to take op portunities, when really, he should just be sitting down and letting folks get to the business of the

December 2, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 257 House. So, I apologize to folks in the gallery for listening to what is essentially a vendetta against the Premier (Mr. Kinew). And so let me just share with the member, once and for all, several of us, including the Premier, took said training on February 29, 2024. And there were several of us that were in that meeting alongside the Premier. That should, hopefully, satisfy the me mber opposite and allow us to get on with the busi ness of the day. Miigwech. Mr. Grant Jackson (Spruce Woods): I'd like to thank the member for Fort Garry (Mr.

Wasyliw) for bringing this forward. Our Progressive Conservative caucus shares the concern that matters taken under ad visement by this government are not following the long- held rule and practice in this Chamber of being responded to within 45 days, which is the required rule. I don' t need to relitigate that on behalf of the member for Fort Garry. He's made it very clear that this rule has been breached by the First Minister. And, in spite of the member for St. Johns' (MLA Fontaine) comments today providing a date, the breach was still broken with respect to this long-standing rule.

And why the Premier, with all the staff of the–his office and the provincial government as a whole could not make that deadline, not to mention, you know, provide the answer in the Com mittee of Supply pro- cess, where it's supposed to take place but, in fact, then couldn't find the answer in the additional 45 days to meet the deadline, is very unclear.

We feel that this warrants in vestigation by your office, Honourable Speaker, because we believe that these rules do matter and that it is disrespectful and, frankly, in contempt of the Legislative Assembly and your office and author ity that this rule was not fol - lowed by the government. There is not one set of rules for the First Minister, the member for Fort Rouge (Mr. Kinew), and another set of rules for the rest of his ministers and everybody else.

He is required to follow the same rules as every other member of Executive Council with respect to the Committee of Supply process and, indeed, all the same rules as the rest of the other 56 members of this Assembly. And so we support this call, Honourable Speaker. It's clear that it' s in order. It 's clear that it was at the first available opportunity, given the 45-day deadline. It's clear that a breach was –clearly happened with respect to the deadline and this now being two days after the deadline.

And so we ask you to take this matter forward, Honourable Speaker, and in vestigate it as per the motion from the member for Fort Garry. Thank you very much. The Speaker: Recognizing that matters of contempt are very serious matters, I will take the matter under advisement and come back to the House with a ruling. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS The Speaker: Introduction of bills? Committee reports? Tabling of reports? Ministerial statements? The honourable minister of– An Honourable Member: Tabling of reports. TABLING OF REPORTS The Speaker: Tabling of reports, sorry. Hon.

Tracy Schmidt (Acting Minister of Education and Early Childhood Learning): I'm pleased to rise and table the Annual Report on Nutrition Programs for the year of 2023-2024. The Speaker: No further tabling of reports? MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS Maya Turner Hon. Renée Cable (Minister of Advanced Education and Training): Honourable speaking–Speaker, being the first isn't easy. Being the first requires courage and resilience. You must be determined and committed with tremendous work ethic. Being the first requires mastery of skill and a willingness to push boundaries.

You must believe in yourself and have a readiness to go somewhere without precedent. Today I stand to recognize University of Manitoba Bisons kicker Maya Turner who, by embodying all of these characteristics, became the first on more than one occasion. Having grown up on soccer fields, Maya Turner's strength as a player who could kick long, hard and on target stood out. As a football fan, she recognized that not a lot of girls play football, but as her passion for soccer started to wane, she took a chance –a chance that would lead to a series of firsts.

258 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 2, 2024 In 2022, she made history by becoming the first woman to play and score in a pre-season match against the Saskatchewan Huskies. In 2023, she made history again by being the first woman to play in a regular -season U Sports football game against the Regina Rams. One can only imagine the pressure of this first, but Maya Turner proved any and all naysayers wrong by also becoming the first woman to score in a regular-season U Sports football game, finishing that crucial game with nine points, including the game - winning field goal. It gets better.

Maya Turner was not done with being the first. This fall, Maya Turner became the first woman to earn Canada West all-star honours. She earned the title of best kicker after making 12 of 16 field goals and con- verting all 25 of her extra-point attempts in the regular season. By kicking her way through barriers, Maya Turner has shown that it's not only possible for women to play in male-dominated spaces, but women can excel and lead in them as well. On a very personal note, I want to thank Maya for giving my own daughter a role model to look up to.

In a world filled with messages about how young women ought to look and behave, you are a beacon of light. Let us celebrate Maya Turner for her historic accomplishments and the hope and inspiration she brings to young female athletes and females pursuing excellence in all spaces that weren't designed for them, to chase their dreams fearlessly and unapologetically. Mr.

Richard Perchotte (Selkirk): Manitoba Bisons' kicker Maya Turner has etched her name in the records of Canadian football history by becoming the first woman ever to be named a Canada West all-star, and she did this all while inspiring countless young athletes, especially girls, to pursue their dreams in sports. Maya's journey is a shining example of resilience, passion and breaking barriers.

Her remarkable season has been marked by a 75 per cent success rate on field goals, which comes as a follow -up to history when in 2022, she became the first woman not only to play but also to score in Canadian U football by bringing the Manitoba Bisons to a 27-24 victory. This was an iconic moment showcasing her skill and determination. Maya 's story reminds us of the greatness knows no boundaries, whether it's gender or past experiences.

Originally from Maple Grove, Minnesota, Turner began her university athletic career playing NCAA Division I soccer at Loloyo [phonetic] University in Chicago. * (13:50) Her transition from NCAA soccer to excelling in football is a testament to her adaptability and unyield- ing love of sport. Turner has said she has always been interested in football, but did not get the–much oppor- tunity to play. Her humility and dedication are as admirable as her achievements, proving that success is not just about talent but also about hard work and the courage to step into uncharted territory.

To quote Turner, it 's really important for other girls to see that they can accomplish things like this. As we applaud this fearless and talented young athlete, I also encourage young girls everywhere to follow in her footsteps: dream big, work hard and refuse to let barriers define you. There's no doubt that Maya's story is just beginning, and her journey will continue to motivate athletes across generations. Turner once said there's still more to come. And we can all look forward to watching what you do next.

Indeed, her accomplishments inspire us all to aim high, challenge stereotypes and embrace opportunity to make history. Thank you, Maya. Speaker's Statement The Speaker: Before moving on to members ' state- ments, I have a statement for the House. First off, I would –sure members are aware that there's been recent changes in staffing within the Chamber branch. On November 12, 2024, Rob Lockhart began his role as the first full -time Deputy Sergeant- at-Arms for the Legislative Assembly. Rob has worked for the Chamber branch as a gallery attendant for the past two years.

Prior to join- ing the Assembly, Rob enjoyed a 32-year career with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, with all of his RCMP service here in Manitoba.

December 2, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 259 Rob brings a wide range of experience and skills with him that are very well suited to the Deputy Sergeant- at-Arms position, and we are very excited to have Rob join the team full-time. Rob is joined today in the Speaker 's Gallery by his wife Ruth, children Katelyn and Liam. Join me in congratulating Rob on his new position and welcom - ing him to the Assembly.

Introduction of Guests The Speaker: I would also like to draw the attention of all honour able members to the Speaker 's Gallery, where we have with us today, visiting from Ontario, Monika Johnson, who is the mother of Andrea Norlock, one of the Clerk's office administrative assistants. She is a retired Via Rail worker of 43 years and is hon - oured to be able to sit and watch the session today for the very first time ever. On behalf of all honour able members, we wel - come you here today.

I would also like to draw the attention of all hon- ourable members to the public gallery, where we have with us Maya Turner, Carver Trapp, Jake Deneka, who are guests of the honour able member for Southdale (MLA Cable). On behalf of all honour able members, we wel - come you here today. Further, in the public gallery we have with us today a group of students from the Uni versity of Winnipeg Political Science Student Association. Visit was co-ordinated by co-presidents Alyssa Warga and Sage Toews.

The group is visiting today to learn more about our intern program and to observe how well - behaved we are during House proceedings. I may have ad-libbed that last little bit. Accompanied by Professor Malcolm Bird, who is also the academic advisor for the Assembly 's intern program, and Manitoba Legislative interns Silvia Ofori, Selam Beyene, Tawsha Bristol, Christina McKay, Madeline Blais, Sabrina Kruger. On behalf of all honour able members, we wel - come you here today. So I have one more group that are here with a group that was previously announced.

We have, in addition to Maya Turner, DeShawn LeJour, Mya Miller, Carver Trapp, Jake Deneka and Michael O'Shea. And once again, they're guests of the honour able member for Southdale. Okay, and that concludes today's introductions. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS UMFA Union Certification Anniversary MLA Jennifer Chen (Fort Richmond): Honourable Speaker, today I rise to acknowledge a significant milestone in the history of education in Manitoba: the 50th anniversary of the University of Manitoba Faculty Association's union certification.

As an alumna of a master 's program of the University of Manitoba, I had the privilege of attend- ing the anniversary event this November, and hearing directly from many distinguished members who are also residents of Fort Richmond about how their union has shaped not only their professional lives but also the success of the university as a whole. For five decades, UMFA has played a vital role in ensuring the University of Manitoba remains a leader in research, teaching and innovation.

Through its advocacy and collective bargaining efforts, the association has fought for the rights of faculty members, promoting academic freedom and ensuring equity and fairness. UMFA has also been a strong advocate for collegial governance, ensuring that faculty members have a voice in the decision-making processes. These efforts have been essential in maintaining the high standards of education that benefit students.

I am proud to have stood with UMFA members on the picket line during past strikes, advocating for better working conditions, fair treatment and a stronger commitment to the people who make this institution exceptional. These actions were not just about improving the lives of faculty members; they were about ensuring that the University of Manitoba could continue to attract and retain the talented individuals who make this university a leader in education and research. I want to acknowledge the representatives from UMFA who join us today: Erik Thomson, Jenna Tichon, Orvie Dingwall, Tommy Kucera and Jieying Chen.

I invite my colleagues to join me in congratu- lating UMFA on 50 years of union certification. Thank you, Honourable Speaker. Government's Fiscal Management Record Mr. Trevor King (Lakeside): Honourable Speaker, I rise today to recognize and uplift Manitobans in their time of need. They are struggling to make ends meet while the government flails and fails.

260 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 2, 2024 This government has drawn sharp criticism for its approach to managing public funds, particularly in its recent handling of program cuts and reallocated fund- ing. This government has cut funding to vital pro- grams like Building Sustainable Com munities and Green Team, only to later repackage the funds under a new banner. This maneuver not only diminishes the programs' immediate effectiveness, but also appears as a thinly veiled attempt to misrepresent this money as a fresh investment rather than a restoration of what was taken away.

The cuts to BSC and Green Team are especially troubling because these programs are vital to sup- porting community infrastructure, sus tainability and employment for youth. By abruptly halting their fund- ing, the government has disrupted the momentum of projects and left communities scrambling to fill the gap. These cuts undermine the govern ment's cred - ibility as a party ostensibly committed to environ - mentally–sustainability and social equity. Adding insult to injury, this government cut the PR 227 paving project to redirect funds toward some unnamed future vanity project of this Premier (Mr. Kinew).

This decision not only jeopardizes the safety and usability of PR 227 for Manitobans who rely on it, but also showcases an alarming pattern of neglect and disrespect to our municipalities. Manitobans deserve transparency about where their tax dollars are going, and vague promises of future projects do little to inspire confidence. The one Manitoba shell game fund appears to be less about fostering genuine economic growth and more about political optics.

By framing recycled funding as new, this government insults the intel - ligence of Manitobans, who see through the facade. * (14:00) Leadership, accountability and commitment to meaningful investments–not this kind of fiscal sleight of hand; this strategy erodes trust and diverts attention from pressing need for consistent, transparent governance. Thank you, Honourable Speaker. Aki Centre MLA JD Devgan (McPhillips): Run by the Seven Oaks School Division and located in West St. Paul, the Aki Centre works to connect community with the land to foster ecological stewardship among students and visitors.

After the centre' s founding in 2017, they soon began to survey the land to understand its history. Years of farming and colonization had left the land in poor condition. However, growing on the land were 65 species of plants that were indigenous to our local ecosystem, the tall grass prairie. Inspired by the words of Elder Dan, what we do to the land, we do to ourselves, the Aki Centre began working to restore the integrity of the 50 acres of land they reside on.

Through collaboration with two founding elders- in-residence and 5,000 visitors to the centre every year, they began working on the land to transform it into a healing landscape. They work to create a relationship between stu - dents and land based on Indigenous teachings, and connect students with cultural programming through seasonally planned activities. They also host a annual–a popular annual pump- kin smash every year for kids or adults looking for some cathartic exercise. The Aki Centre is proud of how they work to pro- vide for the community.

They collect food waste from schools every week and, alongside students, grow vegetables, herbs and cultivate plants to grow in schoolyards. They want to teach others how to do better in any way they can. Today, I am honoured to have guests from the Aki Centre with us here in the gallery today. I ask that all my colleagues join me in celebrating their achieve- ments and thank them for their work to advance land-based teachings in our province. I also ask that their names be recorded in Hansard.

Derek Dabee, Sherri Denysuik, Tony Kreml, Ben Linnick, Alexandra Loeppky, Heather Marks, Greg McFarlane, Jen McGowan, Alexis Nazeravich, Maria Santos, Jen West, Tifanny Winchar Ports of Entry–Reduced Hours of Service Mr. Konrad Narth (La Vérendrye): Honourable Speaker, Manitobans are starting to see through this Premier. When the cameras are on, he talks about bor- der security and pretends that it's an issue for him, but when it's time to do the work, he is absent and silent.

When the federal government announced that a dozen ports of entry throughout Manitoba would have reduced hours of service, including multiple in my constituency, this Premier had nothing to say.

December 2, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 261 The fact that this government was represented by a junior minister making vague statements showed everyone that this was no serious matter for the NDP. It matters to my constituents though. Many of my far southeast constituents are dual citizens and work in the US. For many they are earning a living in the US and supporting the Manitoba economy back at home. These changes will add hours to their daily commute. The effects are seen further. Many border com - munities on either side rely on cross-border trade.

For those that ship goods across the border, these reduc - tions can have massive impacts. These new hours will not only have convenience impact for Manitobans but also have economic influence. This Premier (Mr. Kinew) talks when the cameras are on, but behind closed doors, he failed to advocate for Manitobans. He failed to impress upon Ottawa the fact that our economy is heavily reliant on north-south trade and unreasonable barriers to this hurts Manitoba families. What's worse, he clearly didn't care until President- elect Trump threatened tariffs, then suddenly the news cameras were pointed at him.

Manitobans need a statesman who fights for them, not a showman trying to build a national profile so he can replace either component of the failed Singh-Trudeau alliance. Manitobans deserve better, and this Premier needs to commit today to picking up the phone and demanding– The Speaker: Member's time is expired. Mr. Derek Johnson (Official Opposition House Leader): I seek leave for the member to continue his statement. The Speaker: Does the member have leave? Some Honourable Members: No. The Speaker: Leave has been denied. World AIDS Day Mr. Tyler Blashko (Lagimodière): I rise today to recognize World AIDS Day.

This day was first recog- nized in 1988, and became the first ever international day for global health. It is a day to remember the people we've lost to HIV and AIDS and continue to advocate for better care This year's theme is Take the rights path: My health, my right! It underlines the importance of accessible care and empowering those affected by HIV and AIDS to live vibrant and fulfilling lives. I'm proud of the im portant steps our government has made in prioritizing care for Manitobans, includ- ing free access to PrEP, post -exposure prophylaxis and antiretroviral therapy.

These important initiatives bolster both prevention and treatment for Manitobans. Our govern ment is also looking to the future of treatment through the esta blishment of the Dr. Dick Smith HIV/AIDS epidemiology research fellowship. We celebrate the many advocates, doctors, researchers, nurses and com munity health workers who are investing their time and energy to improve care for Manitobans living with HIV/AIDS.

We're fortunate to partner–we're fortunate to have partners like Nine Circles Community Health Centre, the Manitoba Harm Reduction Network, Ka Ni Kanichihk, Sunshine House and many, many others across the province, committed to person-centred cul- turally safe initiatives that improve access to HIV pre- vention and intervention. Community organizations have always been at the forefront of meeting com munity health needs. They've been central in sharing the importance of getting tested and reducing stigma through campaigns like U equals U: undetectable equals untransmittable.

We all have a role to play in addressing stigma, challenging stereotypes and supporting those affected by HIV in our communities. To the many Manitobans, families and communities impacted by HIV and AIDS, we see you, you are worthy and you are loved. ORAL QUESTIONS Education System Federal Funding Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Leader of the Official Opposition): Welcome to the gallery, Maya and, of course, all our guests that are joining us this afternoon and the hundreds watching virtually. Manitoba has a long history of welcoming new - comers.

New comers to our province often require assistance, especially in terms of enhancing their English-language skills; skills, I might add, that are essential to their economic success, which then in turn adds to our economic success rate here in Manitoba. The enhanced English skills for an em ployment, which serves newcomers, is shutting down in the next few months. As shared by their executive director, I quote: They help hundreds, if not thousands, of people.

262 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 2, 2024 The Kinew govern ment has benefitted from a year-over-year increase of –$900-million increase in federal transfers, which is 24 per cent, Honour able Speaker. The Kinew government likes to tell Manitobans about their great federal relationship. So, Honourable Speaker, I ask the Premier today: When was he made aware of these cuts and is he going to share some of that $900 million with these programs? The Speaker: Member's time is expired. Hon. Wab Kinew (Premier): You know, the members opposite come here day after day and complain about the federal gov ernment.

We work with them when appropriate. We stand up for Manitoba when that's the appropriate court of–course of action. But when we're talking about standing up for Manitobans, I would say this to those on the opposi - tion benches: Say their names. Say their names. Marcedes Myran, Morgan Harris. These are two of our fellow Manitobans who were killed by a serial killer. Today, our government, working with the com munity and the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs, began stage 4 of searching the Prairie Green landfill for their remains.

This is an important step towards justice and healing for the families of Morgan and Marcedes. Importantly, the members opposite chose to make this an issue in the election campaign last year. I would like them, instead of engaging in the procedural delays that we see here each and every day, to come forward and state their position. Do they support the search of the Prairie Green landfill and advancing the healing of the families of Marcedes and Morgan? The Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr.

Ewasko: So, Honourable Speaker, it's once again shameful that the Premier of Manitoba is again dodging and denying and just refusing to answer any questions here. This is not the first time the Kinew gov ernment has failed teachers and students, Honourable Speaker. When 93 education assistants were unceremoniously fired by the Hanover School Division, this Premier refused to support them and the hundreds of st udents they work with. The Premier was asked in this very House if he would, and I quote, take some action today and step in to make sure that these staff are still in the classroom.

End quote. * (14:10) His response, I quote: No, actually, not at all, he said. The same Premier who has almost $1 billion more in federal transfers to allocate. Government is all about choices, Honour able Speaker. Why has this Premier chosen to abandon these educators and students only weeks before Christmas? Mr. Kinew: The member opposite is raising issues around funding from the federal government. Do you know what we secured from the federal govern ment: $20 million to search the Prairie Green landfill. And today, we entered the most important part of that search: stage 4. I was on site this morning.

I watched the first truck move down that mountain, move down the hill into the search facility. On this important day–this is a national news story. Members opposite for all of last year wanted to talk about it. Why can't they talk about it now? Each one of these PC MLAs was elected under ads saying that Manitobans should stand firm. I'll table them for the reminder of the members opposite. It said, in fact, at the top of this ad that this issue matters most to us, speaking in the voice of the PCs.

Well, if this matters so much to the members opposite, tell us today: Do they still believe Heather Stefanson's opposition to searching the landfill was correct? Or do they support us in moving ahead with the search along with the feds, along with the commu- nity and along with the families? The Speaker: Time has expired. The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary question. Mr. Ewasko: Honourable Speaker, the Premier likes to say that hope lives here in Manitoba.

Unfortunately, not for the hundreds of educators facing unem ploy- ment in the upcoming holidays or the students upgrad- ing their English skills. Our economy relies on a strong education system for children right through to adulthood. Instead of squabbling about juris diction with the feds, will the Premier step up? A student is a student, regardless of who delivers their education. The Premier has the funds to keep these programs going, Hon our- able Speaker.

December 2, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 263 Why is he failing these students and educators, especially this–during this time, Honourable Speaker? Mr. Kinew: We have a school food program in every single classroom in Manitoba because every child matters; we're working with the federal government to deliver that. We're also working with the federal govern ment to search the Prairie Green landfill. This issue was so important to the political campaign that saw each of these members sent to the op position benches that Heather Stefanson chose to ask it first in the televised debate.

Of all the issues in the world, of issues around education or health care or the economy–those didn't seem to matter to the PCs last year. They had to talk about their opposition to searching the Prairie Green landfill. Over the course of getting to stage 4 and launching that today, we have systematically disproven every assertion that they made. It's being delivered on budget at a cost far less than they claimed in their ads. We moved asbestos carefully and without incident, and the material in the landfill is in a con dition where we can identify what we're working with.

The search for the humanitarian recovery of Morgan and Marcedes is moving forward in a good way. Do the members opposite support this with the benefit of– The Speaker: Time has expired. The honour able Leader of the Official Op posi- tion, on a new question. Violent Crime Incident Justice System Concerns Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Leader of the Official Opposition): Honourable Speaker, last week, two individuals shopping at Polo Park were victims of another unprovoked stabbing right here in Manitoba. They suffered serious upper-body injuries. The Premier acknowledges law en forcement for the quick response and arrest.

However, he ignores the fact that his own Justice Minister released this indi- vidual back into the community to reoffend not once, but twice, Honourable Speaker. Manitobans can draw a direct line from this minister's desk right to Polo Park stabbing. Will the Premier advise why his hand -picked Justice Minister failed these two victims and other victims across Manitoba, Honourable Speaker? Hon. Wab Kinew (Premier): I thanked law enforce- ment immediately after these terrible incidents took place. But on the subject of the victims of crime, say their names . S ay their names: Marcedes Myran, Morgan Harris.

What we saw from the justice system earlier this year: we secured a conviction against the serial killer who robbed us of the love and company and affection of Morgan and Marcedes. We worked together across jurisdictions, respecting that judicial process, and then immediately moving forward with the search of the Prairie Green landfill. The members opposite want to come in here and talk about public safety; I would say to them through the Chair: You have no credibility on public safety until you address your past positions on Prairie Green landfill.

The member from Brandon West opposed the search on September 20 of last year. In his own words, does he still believe that sentiment, or with the benefit of hindsight and with a capable govern ment, has he reversed himself? I pose the question to every single member opposite: Do you still believe that Manitobans– The Speaker: Member's time is expired. The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Ewasko: Honourable Speaker, the Premier failed in his comments last week to even acknowledge the victims of these unprovoked stabbings.

He failed to mention to Manitobans that it was his own Justice Minister that allowed this person to be in the commu- nity that day. The Premier told Manitobans: If they only gave him a hundred days, he would personally fix bail. He didn't. The Premier told Manitobans that he would, quote, end violent crime. End quote. He hasn't. The Premier told Manitobans that he would ban knives and machetes, and we know, Honourable Speaker, he can't. How many more Manitobans need to be violently and randomly assaulted before this Premier realizes that perhaps the MLA for Concordia was the wrong choice? Mr.

Kinew: I extend my empathy and compassion for all victims of violent crimes. That's the reason I am working with the families of Marcedes Myran and Morgan Harris to bring their loved ones home.

264 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 2, 2024 Say their names. It took the members opposite a week to say Donald Trump's name. How long before they can say Marcedes or Morgan? [interjection] The Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: The victims of the worst crime in the his- tory of Manitoba. Again, the members opposite are not able to say their names. But you know what they do say? They had a caucus meeting this summer chaired by the member for Steinbach (Mr. Goertzen) in which they asked : How long do we have to feel bad about those landfill ads? And the member for Steinbach tried to reassure them.

But I would say it is very clear that you will not be able to move forward until you address this issue. Do you support the search of the Prairie Green landfill, yes or no? And do your leadership candidates, who are work- ing with some of the people who were the spearhead of that terrible campaign last year, do you support this Prairie Green landfill? Manitobans are coming together– The Speaker: Member's time is expired. The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary question. Mr.

Ewasko: Once again, Hon ourable Speaker, the Premier dodges the questions to hold him accountable to keeping communities safer in this province of ours. It's clear that the NDP don't care about making our communities safer. The suspect in last week's double stabbing faces two charges of failed to comply with conditions of release order. So he is known to the minister. Now we add to the mix two charges of assault and possession of a weapon. Still, this Minister of Justice (Mr. Wiebe) releases him to offend.

The Premier stated that Manitobans lose faith in the justice system when individuals are released only to imme diately reoffend; in this case, violently reoffend. Manitobans have lost faith in this NDP's justice system. They have lost faith in this NDP's Justice Minister. All Manitobans want is the ability to shop without the risk of stabbings. Will the Premier deliver, or is he content with his Justice Minister's status quo? Mr. Kinew: We have more law enforcement to keep you safe, and earlier this year, what did the justice system do?

A judge delivered a conviction of Jeremy Skibicki, the person who killed Marcedes Myran, Morgan Harris, Buffalo Woman and, of course, Rebecca Contois. But there is a higher level of justice at work here as well, too. It says in the first book of the Bible, Genesis, the voice of the blood of your brother cries to me from the earth. And the Prairie Green landfill situation is asking all of us as Manitobans to look at these two Indigenous women the same way that the Bible calls on us to look at a brother. The blood of our sisters cries to us from the earth.

Today we moved landfill material in the target zone for the first time. Manitobans have put aside division and are moving forward together on this in a good way. Since the PCs torched them selves in last year's election on this topic, I want them to weigh in today. Do– The Speaker: Member's time is expired. * (14:20) 7-Eleven Convenience Stores Closures Due to Increase in Crime Mr. Wayne Balcaen (Brandon West): Honourable Speaker, under the Kinew government, Winnipeg has gone from Slurpee capital to stabbing capital.

Prior to this NDP government, 7-Eleven stores used to be on every corner, providing access to essentials like milk and bread and treats like Slurpees and nachos. They are a lighted beacon in many communities, anchoring them, providing employment and generating taxes. Now the doors have closed on those childhood summertime memories along with a dozen stores. In reference to the closure, the Minister of Justice declared it, quote, a huge success. Does the Premier (Mr. Kinew) agree with his hand-picked minister that almost a dozen stores clos- ing due to the rampant theft and violence is a huge success? Hon.

Matt Wiebe (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Honourable Speaker, our gov- ernment is taking action, working with police and others to bring forward a retail initiative to stop some of the violent crime on our streets. But of course, members opposite campaigned on some of the most divisive and deplorable rhetoric ever

December 2, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 265 heard in this province. Some of the messaging was almost hateful in a way. That's strong condemnation, Honourable Speaker. But of course, that's just the words of the member for Dawson Trail (MLA Lagassé) in his assessment of the campaign. We've heard from the member for Dawson Trail. Wondering if we could hear directly from the member for Brandon West, if he'll apologize to the people of Manitoba. The Speaker: The honourable member for Brandon West, on a supplementary question. Mr. Balcaen: Quote: They just couldn't absorb the continual losses.

This is the view of Winnipeg coun- cillor for Mynarski. The councillor went on to ask, quote: When they need that quart of milk or you need a loaf of bread and it's 11 p.m. or 12:30 a.m., where are you going to get it? In the North End, almost everybody except for 7-Eleven closes early. I will ask the NDP's closure of these stores: Where are the residents of Ellice, McPhillips and Pembina Highway to go for their milk and bread, for diapers and Children's Tylenol, in the middle of the night? Mr.

Wiebe: Of course, our government's taking action, including with our electronic monitoring, which we expanded to rural areas and–in co -operation with victims of intimate partner violence. But I don't hear an apology from the member for Brandon West, and I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised because there's a whole number of individuals, of course, who've never apologized, and those who have come out, he's made no comment about. Folks like Candice Bergen who said it seemed cruel even to those who agreed with Stefanson's posi- tion on the issue.

David McLaughlin, who said the anti-search-the-landfill ad, terrible ad on all sorts of levels; it was so categorically unempathetic. And yet the member opposite offers no apology. Does he feel that it was unempathetic, the cam - paign that he participated in– The Speaker: Member's time has expired. The honourable member for Brandon West, on a final supplementary question. Mr. Balcaen: Police have told us that almost a dozen closures of convenience stores under the Kinew gov- ernment is just the canary in the coal mine.

Retailers have noted that if a company like 7-Eleven, which has over 70,000 stores worldwide, revenues of $112 billion, cannot absorb losses associated with retail theft and violent crime occurring in Winnipeg, then no business can. The councillor for Point Douglas shared, and I quote: 7-Eleven can't continue to lose the amount of money with the amount of stealing that has occurred; it's just not sustainable. Will the Premier (Mr. Kinew) roll down the tinted windows of his armed limo and take action today? Mr.

Wiebe: Hon ourable Speaker, quoting from the Brandon Sun: After being pressed multiple times on providing a clear answer, the member for Brandon West largely fell in line with Premier Heather Stefanson's view. That was who he was during the campaign. So the question might be asked: Has he changed his mind? Has he reformed his position? Well, no, because recently he said about the mem- ber for Fort Whyte (Mr. Khan), who, of course, was the face of this divisive campaign, the member for Brandon West endorsed him, and he said, quote: I found a lot of his ideals the same as mine.

So this member opposite has shown us who he is. I gave him the oppor tunity in front of this House, in front of Manitobans, to apologize. He still hasn't. Neither has the member for Fort Whyte or any other member on the opposite side. Manitobans are paying attention. The Speaker: Member's time has expired. The honourable member for Brandon West, on a new question. Winnipeg Police Service Funding and Staffing Levels Mr. Wayne Balcaen (Brandon West): Honourable Speaker, the NDP's Minister of Justice spends more time on the spin cycle than the Maytag repairman and he's hung the Winnipeg Police Service out to dry.

Thanks to mounting overtime bills, Winnipeg is on pace to spend $339 million on policing in 2024, an increase of 4 per cent over the police budget in 2023. As noted by CBC, and I quote: A 2 per cent funding hike for 2025 could therefore be seen as a de facto cut. In light of the increasing violent crimes, can the minister offer our brave officers trying to keep us safe more than a de facto cut, or is he content defunding the police?

266 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 2, 2024 Hon. Matt Wiebe (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Again, Hon ourable Speaker, to know exactly who the member for Brandon West is, all you have to look at is that he voted against a $2- million increase to the Brandon Police Service, a $5.3-million increase to the Winnipeg Police Service, he called 2 per cent increase a pittance and, of course, made sure to say our machete bill was window dressing trying to keep people safe in the province of Manitoba.

But of course, we know there are other members who have spoken out against this campaign that the member for Brandon West undertook. He said–this is from Shelley Glover, who said she was aghast watch- ing the September 21 leaders' debate when the first issue that the PC leader Heather Stefanson raised was her refusal to search the landfill. Again, this was front and centre in their campaign. Does the member take any– The Speaker: The member's time is expired. The honourable member for Brandon West, on a supplementary question. Mr.

Balcaen: The Minister of Justice seems to be of the opinion that misleading Manitobans will keep our communities safe. For example, he likes to point out the alleged addition of a dozen new officers. Much like proving the existence of Bigfoot, CBC Manitoba said they encountered the same dif ficulty with this minister's claim. And I quote: That claim could not be corrobor- ated by the mayor's office or Winnipeg Police Service, which point out that the officers in question are already being trained and already earning a salary. The mayor's office and the Winnipeg Police Service say the minister is full of snow.

If the mayor and police don't believe in the minister's fairy tale, why should Manitobans? Mr. Wiebe: Of course, the member opposite knows that we have the support of the Retail Council of Canada, we have the support of the National Police Federation on the initiatives that we're undertaking. But again, I hear no apologies from the members for Brandon West, for Lac du Bonnet (Mr. Ewasko), for Fort Whyte (Mr. Khan). None of them will take accountability, and yet, they want to come in here and talk about victims.

Is it safer, is Manitoba safer for victims of crime because they stood firm in their previous campaign that was the banner that they ran under? Do Manitobans feels safer under a gov ernment that would not stand with victims of a serial killer? That's their legacy, and they need to be account - able for it. I ask members opposite to have some con- viction and stand up and apologize for their words. The Speaker: The honourable member for Brandon West, on a final supplementary question. Needle Distribution Program Committee Inquiry Mr.

Wayne Balcaen (Brandon West): Still on the topic of misinforming Manitobans, the NDP's front bench seems to be falling all over themselves contra- dicting one another, Honourable Speaker. The minister respon sible for the dis tribution of syringes, in reference to her crack commando com - mittee, pounded her desk declaring that the govern - ment has, quote, nothing to do with this committee. Then the Minister of Families (MLA Fontaine) puts on the historical record that the NDP's committee is actually a, quote, government committee, referring to it as their, quote, crack cocaine committee.

Perhaps the Minister of Justice (Mr. Wiebe) can wade into this prickly issue of used needles and tell this House who is on the govern ment crack cocaine committee of Cabinet, what is their mandate and do they get hazard pay? Hon. Wab Kinew (Premier): This is a difference between us and them, between you, the people of Manitoba, the vision that you want for the future, and what they offer. Slogans trivializing important public safety issues. We stand with victims against one of the worst crimes that has ever been committed in Manitoba his- tory. There's moral clarity on our side of the House.

We stood with the families. We worked to ensure that there was a conviction of a serial killer. The members opposite politicized this issue when they decided to run TV ads and put up billboards and to raise it in the televised leaders' debate. We keep this issue sacred. But before they come in here and try to raise their slogans about public safety, I think it's impor tant that they address their position. Do they oppose the landfill search? Do they support it? Or are they remaining quiet toda y so that in the future they– * (14:30)

December 2, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 267 The Speaker: Member's time has expired. Addictions Crisis Needle Disposal Program Mrs. Kathleen Cook (Roblin): The NDP has no plan to deal with the addictions crisis in Manitoba. HIV rates continue to soar under their watch, and the number of discarded needles causing harm in our neighbourhoods continues to climb. Yet this govern- ment has failed to open a single new addictions treat- ment bed in Winnipeg or expand access to life-saving interventions like Narcan.

The City of Winnipeg estimates that it would cost over $260,000 per year to clean up discarded needles in just a few select parks across the city. Despite this, the NDP excluded the WRHA from any new funding for needle cleanup. Why is this govern ment refusing to invest in meaningful solutions to tackle the addictions crisis in Winnipeg? Hon. Uzoma Asagwara (Minister of Health, Seniors and Long-Term Care): The member opposite is just wrong.

She continues to put incorrect words on the record and is, quite frankly, either completely out of date with what our govern ment is doing on these issues or just doesn't care to be honest with Manitobans. But she has an op portunity right now to stand in her place and be clear with Manitobans. She ran under a hateful, divisive campaign that targeted the victims of a serial killer. She has yet to apologize to Manitobans. Today is her chance to do that and show some form of accountability and leadership, which no one on that side of the House has done yet. Will she do so?

The Speaker: The honourable member for Roblin, on a supplementary question. Mrs. Cook: Honourable Speaker, over 2,700 needles a day are distributed in Winnipeg under this NDP gov- ernment. They are not part of a needle-swap program. They are freely distributed with no guarantee that they will be safely disposed of. The NDP promised Manitobans they would address the addictions crisis, but they have done nothing to expand treatment beds in Winnipeg or make Narcan more accessible. They've broken their promise on bail reform, and they are now refusing to fund needle - disposal programs in Winnipeg.

Will the NDP fund a needle -cleanup program in Winnipeg today, yes or no? MLA Asagwara: Honourable Speaker, the member is wrong. We already do provide that funding. I'm proud to work with the Minister of Mental Health, Addictions and Homelessness to do this work and take a whole-of-government approach to making sure that Manitobans struggling with addictions have their needs met. Honourable Speaker, it is so im portant that, as legislators, we take a respon sible approach and that we treat all Manitobans with respect.

We saw the pre- vious failed PC gov ernment treat families that were suffering and struggling with the loss of their loved ones in such violent ways, and they exploited that and they targeted that shamefully. That member has an opportunity today to stand up in her place and apologize to these families. It's the decent thing to do. When you know better, you do better, Honourable Speaker. Will she do so today? The Speaker: The honourable member for Roblin, on a final supplementary question. Mrs.

Cook: The NDP have shown no leadership in addressing Manitoba's growing addictions crisis and the rampant violent crime in our neighbourhoods. No new addictions treatment beds, no access to Narcan programs, no action on bail reform and no financial support for needle cleanup in Winnipeg. Under the NDP, it's easier to get arrested and jailed for having tuberculosis in this province than for violent crime. Shame on them. The NDP will not fix the violent crime or addic - tions crisis in this city by making excuses and pointing fingers. The time for talk is over; Winnipeg needs decisive action now.

Why is this govern ment failing to take respon si- bility for the safety of people in Winnipeg? MLA Asagwara: Honourable Speaker, for seven and a half years, the previous failed Heather Stefanson government took no action to make our com munities safer, to strengthen health care or to make sure that those struggling with addictions had the care that they needed. On this side of the House, we're taking real action, working with families and working with partners to do the incredibly important work.

268 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 2, 2024 On this side of the House, as the Premier (Mr. Kinew) has already said, we have moral clarity when it comes to standing with victims and their families. These are Manitobans: Marcedes Myran, Morgan Harris. Members opposite won't even say their names. That member can stand in her place today and do something no member on that side has done: say their names and apologize to all Manitobans. Brandon University Campus Security Measures for Student Safety Mr.

Richard Perchotte (Selkirk): Honourable Speaker, I've been asking the Minister of Advanced Education what this government is specifically doing to address student safety on campus, and she's been worse than silent; she's been defensive. Students and their families want specifics. Instead, they get vague references to thoughts and prayers and no action. So I give the minister another chance: Why can she not name a single specific action taken in the name of student safety? Hon.

Renée Cable (Minister of Advanced Education and Training): Honourable Speaker, I thank the hon- ourable member for the question and want to ask him if he knows what it feels like going door to door when people ask you what the worth of an Indigenous woman's body in a landfill is. As an Indigenous woman, what it felt like door-knocking and having to go home and talk to my daughter about whether or not people would look for her if she went missing.

I wonder if the member opposite, when he talks about public safety, thinks about the safety of the children in the streets of Selkirk and whether or not they will be taken care of and whether Indigenous women in this province will be valued for the people that they are. The Speaker: The honourable member for Selkirk, on a supplementary question. Mr. Perchotte: At the U of M, there were multiple violent incidents within a few short weeks. Nothing from this minister. Last week, students and staff at Brandon Univer- sity held a march to express their concerns.

Their demands included the ability to lock doors and cameras at the entrance to the uni versity residence. This is easy to accomplish. Can the minister at least commit to working to ensure these students' asks are completed? MLA Cable: Honourable Speaker, we continue to work with every institution. There–I'm well aware of the asks at Brandon University, and I know the admin- istration is working closely with everybody involved. We take the safety of everybody seriously, and we don't pick and choose who we advocate for. We don't decide that some people are worth protecting and some people are not.

We don't put a price on the value of an individual once they have been murdered. And we certainly don't take out an ad campaign to convince people that some folks are worth more than others. And I would invite the honour able member to think about whether or not he's okay with the banner that he ran under and whether or not he'd be willing to stand up today and offer apologies and to–you know, there's a great thing that can– The Speaker: Member's time has expired. The honour able member for Selkirk, on a final supplementary question. Mr.

Perchotte: It is the minister's job to ensure that students have the tools and supports they need for success, yet she's been unable to give a single specific answer for students and their families that want to know what is being done to guarantee safety on campus. Students and staff at BU have just given her two actionable items. As students continue to do the minister's job for her, will she at least commit to the completion of these suggestions?

MLA Cable: Honourable Speaker, it's clear with the tone that the member asks questions that he's learned nothing from the last year, including how to respect women, how to act col laboratively. And really, the amount of disrespect that's given every day–the num- ber of times that that member has stood up and told me how to do my job is kind of incredible. I would venture to the member opposite that he doesn't know what it's like to have to explain to a little girl why there are billboards up that say: Stand firm. What's that about, mom? What are those about? What are they standing firm about?

Well, they're standing firm about not going to look for Indigenous women who were murdered. Because don't you know that it's an important thing to stand up for– The Speaker: Member's time has expired.

December 2, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 269 Prairie Green Landfill Search Progress Update MLA Eric Redhead (Thompson): It has been a long journey for the families fighting to search the Prairie Green landfill for the remains of their loved ones. * (14:40) Two years ago today, the Harris and Myran fam- ilies received the news that began this process. Over the last two years of advocacy, hurtful and racial politicizations, the trial 'sendensing' –and sentencing of one of the most horrific serial murderers in our province's history. The determination and 'preserverance' of the families was remarkable.

Today was another step towards a resolution and reconciliation as the search continues. Will the Premier tell the House more about the beginnings of this search and why it is a moment of healing for our province? Hon. Wab Kinew (Premier): It's always families first, and so I want to thank the families of Marcedes and Morgan for making sure that our province does the right thing. Yesterday I was with them on the Prairie Green landfill, up that mountain, in ceremony, praying for a successful conclusion to the search.

This morning I was shoulder to shoulder with the technicians who began searching the first landfill material from the targeted zone. Everything that the PCs claimed in their election campaign last year has been systematically disproven. We're delivering this project under budget for a cost far less than they claimed in their advertising. We moved asbestos material safely and without i ssue. And the landfill material is intact enough for us to be able to identify it. I'm going to table for the House a newspaper from the target date range, where we are searching for the remains.

When it comes to healing, the healing is needed because the members opposite did the worst thing that has ever been done in politics: running ads against the victims of serial killers. But today, we are coming together. For the people of Manitoba, we move mountains– The Speaker: Member's time has expired. US Tariffs and the Carbon Tax Impact on the Agriculture Industry MLA Jeff Bereza (Portage la Prairie): Honourable Speaker, the federal carbon tax will be increasing in April.

This tax hike, along with the threatened 25 per cent tariffs on Canadian -grown products will create an economic tsunami for Manitoba agriculture producers. When will this Agriculture Minister stand up for Manitoba farmers and say no more carbon tax for Manitobans? Thank you. Hon. Ron Kostyshyn (Minister of Agriculture): Let me tell you that it was great to be at the AMM con - vention and talk to a number of agriculture producers about the subject. But I do want to say–one of the things that I want to congratulate is the new chairman –or, president of the AMM, Kathy and the new vice -chairs, Scott and Brad.

But what's more impor tant when we talk about election, Honourable Speaker–but even though they campaigned standing firm against the landfill search, it's an–impossible to know where the PCs stand. Under the interim leadership of the member opposite, in an interview, he was asked by The Globe and Mail: the MLA for Lac du Bonnet, would you not say whether you're part of the –party has changed its position. I know the– The Speaker: Member's time has expired.

MLA Bereza: Honourable Speaker, with many large agriculture employers doing business across Manitoba, such as Richardson Pioneer, Paterson Grain and Parrish & Heimbecker just to name a few, these com- panies employ thousands and thousands of Manitobans, both directly and indirectly. Can the minister tell us if he has reached out to any of these industries and what these employee – employers are saying to him about the proposed increase to the carbon tax, as well as the 25 per cent tariffs that will go into effect within the next 49 days, coming from the United States; and if not, why not. Mr.

Kostyshyn: I'd like to reaffirm the announcement we made last week of $15.4 million to 70 projects across the province of Manitoba, and it was my hon- our to be in attendance at Burnbrae Farms or –where

270 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 2, 2024 they received $2 million through SCAP; Roquette, who received $1.8 million; and Kimberly packaging of $800,000; and Spenst meats of $350. But I want to go back to–the fact is that: Does the member opposite believe in supporting the landfill search? As an MLA for the Portage la Prairie, has he apologized to the constituents of the Long Plain First Nations? Has the MLA for Borderland– The Speaker: The member's time has expired. The honourable member for Portage la Prairie, on a final supplementary question.

MLA Bereza: Honourable Speaker, companies such as Simplot and McCain as well as our Manitoba potato growers supply french fries to the US market. They're facing water issues, the carbon tax and the proposed 25 per cent tariffs being imposed by the US. Other forward -thinking provinces such as Saskatchewan and Alberta are saying no to the carbon tax to help their companies stay competitive. Why is this Ag Minister and his government chas- ing away good jobs when Manitobans need them most? Hon. Wab Kinew (Premier): We've been very clear. We oppose the federal carbon tax.

We used our time during the election campaign last year to share that message with Manitobans. If this MLA believed in opposing the carbon tax, why didn't he talk about that during the election? Instead, do you know what he talked about? He talked about attacking the families of the victims of one of the worst serial killers in the history of Manitoba. The members opposite can heckle on the issue of searching the landfill. I invite them to go and share some words in front of the media today. If you have the courage of your convictions, repeat the message from last year.

If you've changed your position, then share that with the public today. If you are remaining silent today so that you can criticize the landfill search again in the future, I would say that that is inappro- priate and unbecoming. Do you support us searching the Prairie Green landfill, yes or no? Rural Crime Rate in Western Manitoba Blue Hills RCMP Staffing Support Mr. Grant Jackson (Spruce Woods): In the spring of this year, the Minister of Justice (Mr. Wiebe) walked into Riverdale Municipality and disbanded the Riverdale police force after over 110 years of munici- pal policing.

Since then, his department has had a virtual meet- ing with them, and he has had a virtual meeting with a group of Westman munici pal stakeholders, but he has taken zero action in terms of addressing RCMP staffing levels in Blue Hills RCMP district or rural crime rates in western Manitoba at all. So what is this minister waiting for and when can we expect some action to improve rural crime rates and boost the Blue Hills RCMP staffing rates in western Manitoba? Hon. Wab Kinew (Premier): The member for Concordia, the Attorney General (Mr. Wiebe), met with municipal leaders in question.

Of course, the pre- amble is deeply flawed and misleading. The members opposite, however, were part of a campaign that did the worst thing that has ever been done in the history of politics. When has a campaign ever attacked the victims of a serial killer? You would hope the answer would be never. Unfortunately, because of the Manitoba PCs, political science students will always know that the members opposite did that in 2023. We have dis - proven every allegation that they made attacking the families, and we stand with them today, proud to announce that stage 4 is moving ahead.

The members opposite come here day after day to delay. You want substance? I'll put a substantive issue here forward. The Prairie Green landfill: Where do you stand on it? It was so im portant for them to talk about it this year, why can't they talk about it now? What more is there to say? This was always the right– The Speaker: Member's time has expired. The time for question period is expired. PETITIONS Phoenix School Mrs. Kathleen Cook (Roblin): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

The background to this petition is as follows: Phoenix School, a kindergarten to grade 5 school located in Headingley, has experienced consistent enrolment growth over the last several years. Enrol - ment is expected to reach 275 students in the next two years.

December 2, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 271 Because the school is now over capacity, the school division has had to install portable classrooms on site as of fall 2024. For several consecutive years, the top capital priority of the St. James -Assiniboia School Division has been the renovation and expansion of Phoenix School. In 2022, the Phoenix School expansion and reno- vation project was approved to proceed to the design phase. The project included, among other amenities, a new gymnasium, two new classrooms, a multi - purpose room and room for 74 child-care spaces.

In June 2024, the school division received notice from the provincial government that the project has been deferred. There is no guarantee if or when the project will move forward. * (14:50) There are currently hundreds of children on a wait-list for child care in Headingley. The daycare operator in Phoenix School has been told that they will continue to have space within the school for the 2024-2025 school year only, that further expansion of child-care space within the school is not possible and that space may be reduced moving forward due to the shortage of classrooms.

If new space is not constructed as planned, many families may be left without child care. It is critical that the expansion and renovation of Phoenix School proceed as planned in order to support the needs of students, teachers and families in the growing community of Headingley. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to proceed with the planned renovation and expansion of Phoenix School without further delay. And this petition is signed by Emma Filion, L. Jamie Peterson, Rachelle Villeneuve and many, many other Manitobans. Teaching Certification Mr.

Wayne Ewasko (Leader of the Official Opposition): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Ensuring that teachers have a robust back- ground in the subjects they teach is essential for maintaining high -quality education and fostering well-rounded learning experiences for all Manitoba students.

(2) The recent amend ments by the Province of Manitoba to the Teaching Certificates and Quali fica- tions Regulation under The Education Administration Act have significantly lowered the standards for subject-area expertise required for teacher certification.

(3) These amendments eliminated all subject-area requirements for teacher certification, including major and minor teachable subjects and subject -specific requirements for early/middle years streams.

(4) Specifically, the amendments removed: senior years credit require ments in an approved teachable major and minor; early/middle years credit require - ments in an approved teachable major and minor; and early/middle years credit requirements for speci fic subjects, including: math; physical or biological science; English or French; and history and/or geography.

(5) Key stake holders, such as parents, post - secondary educators outside the faculties of education and business partners were not consulted about the changes.

(6) The removal of subject-specific requirements undermines the edu cational quality in Manitoba schools by permitting teachers to enter the classroom without sufficient training in core academic areas, thereby compromising the education that Manitoba students receive. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the Minister of Edu cation and Early Childhood Learning to reverse recent amendments to the Teaching Certificates and Quali fications Regula- tion that weaken subject-area requirements for teacher certification and to reinstate teachable minors–majors and minors and early/middle years require ments which are essential for ensuring teachers have strong knowledge in core subject areas.

(2) To urge the provincial government to address teacher shortages through alter native measures that uphold rigorous subject -area standards, which are critical for providing quality education to all Manitoba students. This petition is signed by Levi Robert Bruce Lazar, Brendan Kupchik, Brendan Macking [phonetic] and many more fine Manitobans, Honourable Speaker. Mr. Grant Jackson (Spruce Woods): I wish to pre- sent the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

272 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 2, 2024 To the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba, the background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Ensuring that teachers have a robust back - ground in the subjects they teach is essential for maintaining high -quality education and fostering well-rounded learning experiences for all Manitoba students.

(2) The recent amend ments by the Province of Manitoba to the Teaching Certificates and Quali fica- tions Regulation under The Education Administration Act have significantly lowered the standards for subject-area expertise required for teacher certification.

(3) These amendments eliminated all subject-area requirements for teacher certification, including major and minor teachable subjects and subject -specific requirements for the early and middle years streams.

(4) Specifically, the amendments removed: senior years credit require ments in an approved teachable major and minor; early and middle years credit requirements in approved teachable major and minor; and early and middle years credit requirements for specific subjects, including: math; physical or biological science; English or French; and history and/or geography.

(5) Key stake holders, such as parents, post - secondary educators outside the faculties of education and business partners were not consulted about the changes. Mr. Tyler Blashko, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair

(6) The removal of subject-specific requirements undermines the edu cational quality in Manitoba schools by permitting teachers to enter the classroom without sufficient training in core academic areas, thereby compromising the education that Manitoba students receive. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the Minister of Edu cation and Early Childhood Learning to reverse recent amendments to the Teaching Certificates and Quali fications Regula- tion that weaken subject-area requirements for teacher certification and to reinstate teachable majors and minors and the early and middle years require ments which are essential for ensuring teachers have strong knowledge in core subject areas; and

(2) To urge the provincial government to address teacher shortages through alter native measures that uphold rigorous subject -area standards, which are critical for providing quality education to all Manitoba students. This petition has been signed by Manika Datta, Emerson Villelner, Rose Machado and many other fine Manitobans. Mr. Trevor King (Lakeside): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. To the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba, the background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Ensuring that teachers have a robust back- ground in the subjects they teach is essential for maintaining high -quality education and fostering well-rounded learning experience for all Manitoba students.

(2) The recent amend ments by the Province of Manitoba to the Teaching Certificates and Quali fica- tions Regulation under The Education Administration Act have significantly lowered the standards for subject-area expertise required for teacher certification.

(3) These amendments eliminated all subject-area acquirements for teacher certification, including major and minor teachable subjects and subject - specific require ments for early -to-middle years streams.

(4) Specifically, the amendments removed: senior years credit require ments in an approved teachable major and minor; early-to-middle years credit require- ments in an approved teachable major and minor; and early-to-middle years credit requirements for specific subjects, including: math; physical or biological science; English or French; and history and/or geography.

(5) Key stake holders, such as parents, post - secondary educators outside the facilities of education and business partners were not consulted about the changes.

(6) The removal of subject-specific requirements undermines the edu cational quality in Manitoba schools by permitting teachers to enter the classroom without sufficient training in core academic areas, thereby compromising the education that Manitoba n students receive. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the Minister of Edu cation and Early Childhood Learning to reverse recent amendments to the Teaching Certificates and Quali fications Regula- tion that weaken subject-area requirements for teacher

December 2, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 273 certification and to reinstate teachable majors and minors and early/middle years requirements which are essential for ensuring teachers have strong knowledge in core subject areas. * (15:00)

(2) To urge the provincial government to address teacher shortages through alter native measures that uphold rigorous subject -area standards, which are critical for providing quality education to all Manitoba students. This petition has been signed by Alex Penner, Gyron Polcharef [phonetic] and Carla Myketeka [phonetic] and many, many Manitobans. Thank you. Breast Screening Mr. Wayne Balcaen (Brandon West): I wish to pre- sent the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. To the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba, the background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Due to evolving scientific evidence, the Canadian Cancer Society is now urging all provinces and territories to lower the starting age for breast screening to 40.

(2) Based off 2023 treatment standards, it is esti- mated that screening women annually for breast cancer starting at age 40 will save the Canadian health-care system $460 million annually.

(3) After non -melanoma skin cancers, breast cancer is the most common form of cancer among Canadian women. One in eight Canadian women will be diagnosed with breast cancer during their lifetime, and one in 36 will die from it. This is 30,500 diagnoses and 5,500 deaths every year, and 84 diagnoses and 15 deaths every day.

(4) Early detection of breast cancer will lead to better outcomes in patients, with better odds of sur - vival and less severe cases. Women in their 40s who have access to mammograms have a 44 per cent lower mortality rate from breast cancer than those who don't receive breast–sorry, don't receive screening.

(5) Every other province and territory in Canada has already lowered the breast cancer screening age or announced their intentions to do so. Other provinces in Canada have already commenced the work of expanding screening programs and hiring additional technologists into their public health-care system.

(6) Manitoba is currently behind the rest of the country and has no formal plan to increase its screen- ing capacity or lower the breast cancer screening age.

(7) Lowering the breast cancer screening age to 40 in Manitoba will reduce long- term costs to the health-care system because cancers that are caught early are typically less complicated to treat. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial gov ernment to imme - diately put forward a plan to increase breast cancer screening capacity and lower the breast cancer screening age to 40. This petition was signed by Ashlyn Cofton [phonetic], Heather Furtney, Chinsley [phonetic] Cumming and many, many other fine Manitobans. The Deputy Speaker: Any further petitions? Seeing none.

MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE Mr. Derek Johnson (Official Opposition House Leader): I move, seconded by the member for Midland (Mrs. Stone), that in accordance with subrule 39(1), the regular busi ness of the House be set aside to discuss a matter of urgent public importance; specific- ally, the impact of the 25 per cent tariffs on Canadian products that the US President -elect plans to impose as of January 20, 2025. Motion presented. The Deputy Speaker: Before recognizing the hon- ourable member for Interlake -Gimli (Mr.

Johnson), I should remind all members that under rule 39(2), the mover of a motion on matter of public –a matter of urgent public importance and one member from the other recognized parties in the House are allowed not more than 10 minutes to explain the urgency of debating the matter immediately. As stated in Beauchesne, citation 390, urgency in this context means the urgency of imme diate debate, not of the subject matter of the motion.

In their remarks, members should focus exclusively on whether or not there is urgency of debate and whether or not the ordinary oppor tunities for debate will enable the House to consider the matter early enough to ensure that the public interest will not suffer. Mr. Johnson: Every member of this Chamber under- stands the importance of exports to the Manitoba

274 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 2, 2024 economy and the impact that the threatened tariffs would have on sectors throughout Manitoba. Rough math, using last year's figures, places the impact of a 25 per cent tariff at or over $2,600 per Manitoban. Last year, exports to America accounted for ove r $15.5 billion across all sectors. Agriculture products and implements, pharma - ceutical and mechanical manufacturing and resource extraction are all industries that rely on exports to American markets. More importantly, they all employ Manitobans in pursuit of those markets.

Small busi - nesses all –are already concerned, knowing that disruptions in existing trade deals will have immense impact and will almost assuredly force some to downsize and hurt Manitobans during the existing affordability crisis. Manitobans need to know that we as their elected officials have a plan in conjunction with other juris - dictions to address and weather these threats. Manitobans need to know that their elected officials are prioritizing this attack on their livelihoods, their businesses and their province. This Premier (Mr.

Kinew), threw out the playbook for economic development and left stakeholders asking for more. The Manitoba Chambers of Commerce remarked publicly, and I quote: Given the ever-changing global economic landscape, we hope the strategy is sufficiently flexible and adaptable, with a focus on building resilience in the face of future economic challenges. Honourable Deputy Speaker, those challenges are on the horizon, and as of yet the provincial gov ern- ment has to release details on a plan. That's why it is an urgent matter for this House to discuss.

The Premier has gone in front of media and said tha t this will plunge Canada into a recession. He has a respon- sibility to reveal his plans so that Manitobans can judge it at face value, or conversely, which is what I suspect, is that he has no plan: no plans for busi ness, no plans for workers, no plans for Manitobans. It is interesting that the Premier has only now found the political will to call for proper funding and staffing for rural RCMP officers. A year and a half ago, when the now-Premier stood in this very House and voted against calling on Ottawa to do their fair share, tells his true tale.

It is telling that one of President-elect Trump's listed concerns is related to border security, and border security is one of the very few issues that this Premier has allowed his minister to speak on instead of talking himself. * (15:10) When the federal government announced a dramatic scaling back that staffed port of entry hours in Manitoba, the Premier finally allowed the minister to speak. The Minister of Public Service Delivery (MLA Sandhu) remarked that he was disappointed, but offered nothing substantive. Twelve border crossings were adjusted in Manitoba, and 23 in the rest of the nation combined.

Yet, there is no sign of that advocacy for border com munities nor businesses that will be sub stantially affected by this change from the NDP government. It was not even a year ago when the largest drug shipment in all the Prairies regions was discovered by officers in Boissevain, where it took over 400 kilograms of meth that was seized before it could hit the streets. Not a word from this Premier or his Cabinet, no sup- port for the officers that made this bust. Certain members opposite would not even clap when the member for Turtle Mountain (Mr. Piwniuk) recog- nized and celebrated those border officers.

Staffed ports of entry protect Manitobans and are an integral part of ensuring that the US does not retaliate with tariffs. The Premier has yet to put for - ward a plan to get the federal gov ernment to restore funding and operations. Manitobans need to know that we are doing all we can do to protect their jobs, to protect their livelihoods and to protect our economy. This government has yet to articulate this and this House rises for winter soon. This is a matter of urgent public importance, as every day this current govern - ment twiddles its thumbs, more and more Manitobans become alarmed.

Additionally, it is urgent to have this debate today. This government has had the opportunity to bring this issue forward and everyone assumed they would; instead, they have shown it is not a priority. We now have a scarce few hours where this House sits before we rise. The Premier met with the Council of the Federation, yet spoke without knowledge. He should have armed himself for these discussions with accurate and up-to-date information.

Rather than reaching out to its members that represent communities along the borders, one of the most directly impacted, the ones who have fought tooth and nail against watering down the security at the borders for years, and he chose not to. I remind the Premier, he has not a single border riding represented in his caucus and he has not reached out to myself or any of my colleagues to gauge the concerns of those Manitobans.

December 2, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 275 Again, I remind the House, if the US imposes a 25 per cent tariff on imports from Canada, it could have a sig nificant impact on Manitoba's economy as the US is Manitoba's largest trading partner. Agricul- ture exports are a huge part of our GDP: roughl y 8 per cent. Manitoba relies heavily on agriculture exports like pork, canola, wheat and soybeans; 25 per cent tariff would make these products more expensive in the US, reducing their competitiveness. Everything we do as elected officials has ripple effects.

Lower demands could hurt farmers' incomes, affecting rural economies and potentially leading to job losses in agriculture and related sectors. Manitoba has a very large manufacturing sector. Manitoba's manufacturing sector includes machinery, transportation equipment and food processing. Tariffs will make exports less attractive to US buyers and there will be an impact on jobs. Reduced demand may lead to downsizing in manufacturing and we also have a massive trans portation and logistics economy because of our exports. Manitoba is a major trans portation hub, parti - cularly in Winnipeg.

Reduced exports could decrease freight activity, impact trucking and rail industries. Lower volumes may lead to higher costs for com - panies reliant on cross-border trade. Small- and medium-sized enterprises are heavily dependent on US markets and might struggle to absorb the increased cost, leading to reduced margins or potential closers–closures. There will be an overall economic uncertainty. Businesses might delay invest- ment decisions due to the unpredictability of trade policies. Tariffs could weaken the Canadian dollar, making imports costlier for Manitoba residents and businesses.

Honourable Speaker, today we need to talk about possible mitigation efforts, and that's why this is a matter of urgent and public importance. Manitoba's economy, with its strong export orientation, is parti - cularly vulnerable to protectionism measures like tariffs, emphasizing the need for adaptive strategies. Right now, the strongest ally Manitobans could have in averting these tariffs is Governor Doug Burgum, who is–the President-elect has identified as his nominee for Secretary of the Interior.

Governor Burgum was previously inducted into the Order of the Buffalo Hunt for his efforts to provide COVID vaccines to Manitoba essential workers, high- lighting not only the under standing of our province and his state's shared prosperity but also an interest in his neighbour's success, which is us. In fact, Governor Burgum was even included in the President-elect Trump and Prime Minister Trudeau's meeting Friday evening. So, thank you, honour able Deputy Speaker.

I'm sure no member of this House can stand in their place and argue that a threat of 25 per cent tariffs to the 15 and a half billion US dollars that it–represents our export market is anything but a matter of urgent and public importance. Thank you, honourable Deputy Speaker. Hon. Jamie Moses (Minister of Business, Mining, Trade and Job Creation): It gives me great pleasure to rise and speak about this issue, which is important. We know that the potential of, you know, 25 per cent tariffs from the United States, our largest trading partner, would have a signi ficant impact on our economy here in Manitoba.

And that's why our government has taken direct action imme diately in the–following announce ment that's come to –from President-elect Trump. And so I think you've seen us take a very–first of all, a collaborative approach, working with our other provincial and territorial partners. We know that this is something that's going to affect folks right across the country–industries, individuals right across the country. And we know that we have a lot more strength when we work with our regional partners across the nation. So to that end, the Premier (Mr.

Kinew) got on the call with premiers and leaders across the country to work on a collaborative approach. I think that not only will articulate the needs and advocate on behalf of Manitoba businesses and industry leaders, but also to ensure that we have a very constructive approach for folks across the country. As well, we've done the job of advocating and articulating our viewpoints on Manitoba when it comes to the potential tariffs.

President- elect Trump has mentioned the tariffs and at the same time men - tioned national security concerns and addressed, you know, issues around drug issues and the potential impact that it's having on American citizens. And I think it's impor tant for us to look at how we, as Canada, can also address those concerns to the better- ment of our own people here in our country and to strengthen that relationship with our US trading partners.

276 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 2, 2024 And so I think it's calling on us to ensure that we not only meet our 2 per cent GDP target for funding for NATO, which I think is 'ensential' and we should be doing that as a country, and we are advocating to the federal government to meet those targets. But I think we should also advocate to them, and we are advocating to them, to increase RCMP presence across the country. This will help us to tackle the issues around drug trafficking and the import of drugs across the border, US and Canada, but to also ensure that we are having a safe and secure border.

We know that a safe and secure border along that great, I think, treasure of ours, that US-Canada border, is something that's very important. Not only will that help us tackle any legal issues around il legal immi- gration, but also, I think it helps us to strengthen our commerce and our trade. And so much trade goes across the border, not just in goods shipped out of Manitoba, as Manitoba being a manufacturing and agri cultural hub, but also folks who travel across the border for work each and every day. And so we know that this relationship is an integral one.

We know that upwards of 70 per cent of goods that are exported out of Manitoba go to our largest trading partner, the United States. * (15:20) And even prior to this, you know, potential – potentiality of a 25 per cent tariff, you know, we recognize as a government the important relationship with the United States. That's why our first international trip as a govern- ment was as the lead–as the Premier (Mr. Kinew) led our delegation to Washington to go and build strong relationships with our US trading partners.

I was fortunate enough to be part of that delegation, where we took folks from Agriculture, from Business, from Transportation, from critical minerals strategy, and we went with our adviser to US trade, former ambassador and former premier Gary Doer, who led us and used his wise experience to help inform us and ensure that we had a very productive trip, to meet with folks on both sides of the aisle, ensure that we're advocating on the best interests of Manitobans.

Now, I was lucky enough to have the perspective of folks in the agri cultural world who are very articulate in advocating for pork, in particular, and in many other products that have cross -border implica- tions if tariffs were to come into place.

And so, as we continue to ensure that we take strong action, an action, mind you, honourable Deputy Chair, that we are already in process of doing, it's im- portant to be very clear with Manitobans and with Canadians that the steps that we're taking are already under way, that the work of ensuring our economy is– continues to flourish and be productive under our watch is our responsibility and it's something that we take very seriously. And action is undergoing already as we speak.

And with respect to the idea of the MUPI, I think it's very important that we–and Manitobans know our government is already working on this im portant issue. We take it seriously. We're willing to work in a constructive way and at the same time advoc ate for Manitobans' best interests, both to the federal govern- ment and to international partners like President-elect Trump, as well as other partners around the globe who are interested in doing busi ness and trading with Manitoba companies.

And so, with that, honour able Deputy Chair, I'll cede the floor, and I'll let you know that Manitobans know that we are very concerned and continue to work constructively on this issue, and we look forward to listening to Manitobans, and particularly those in the business com munity, and seeing how we can con- structively move their best interests forward in a positive way. Thank you very much. Mr. Mark Wasyliw (Fort Garry): On November 26– sorry? The Deputy Speaker: Independent members don't have the ability to speak to MUPIs. Oh, the honourable Opposition House Leader. Mr.

Johnson: Given the importance of this topic, I would seek leave for the member for Fort Garry to speak to the matter of urgent and public importance. The Deputy Speaker: Is there leave for the member to–from Fort Garry to speak to the MUPI? Some Honourable Members: Yes. Some Honourable Members: No. The Deputy Speaker: No. I hear a no. Leave has been denied. I thank the honour able members for their advice to the Chair on the motion proposed by the honourable Opposition House Leader for a matter of urgent public importance. The 90- minute notice required prior to

December 2, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 277 the start of routine proceedings by subrule 39(1) was provided and I thank the member. Under our rules and practices, the subject matter requiring urgent consid eration must be so pressing that the public interest will suffer if the matter is not given immediate attention. Crucially, there must also be no other reasonable opportunities to raise the matter. I have listened very carefully to the arguments put forward. The reports in the media of additional tariffs on Canadian products are indeed serious and worthy of consideration and discussion.

However, my duty in this moment is to deter mine if there are other oppor- tunities for debate on such matters. With that in mind, I must note that members have had several op portunities to raise this matter. They could raise it as a member statement. They could ask questions on this topic during oral questions, as some already have. They could have spoken on this matter as part of the Throne Speech debate. They could also now use their grievance to speak to this matter. These opportunities will continue to be available to members every sitting day in the House.

Accordingly, I do not believe the motion meets the criteria as a matter of urgent public importance, as there are other opportunities to debate this matter. With the greatest of respect then, I must rule this motion out of order as a matter of urgent public importance. The House will now proceed to grievances. Seeing no grievances, the House will now pro- ceed to orders of the day, government business. ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS Hon. Jamie Moses (Minister of Business, Mining, Trade and Job Creation): I'd like to resume debate on the all-party committee.

DEBATE ON GOVERNMENT MOTION The Deputy Speaker: It has been announced that we will be resuming debate on the govern ment motion moved by the honourable Government House Leader (MLA Fontaine), called for–calling for a special com- mittee on local journalism and the amendment moved by the Official Opposition House Leader. The debate on the amendment is standing in the name of the honourable member for Turtle Mountain (Mr. Piwniuk), who has 23 minutes remaining. The honourable member for Turtle Mountain–is there leave for the matter to remain standing? Some Honourable Members: Agreed. An Honourable Member: No.

The Deputy Speaker: I hear a no. Leave has been denied. The floor is open for debate. The –sorry? Debate on the amendment. Mr. Derek Johnson (Official Opposition House Leader): Obviously the member is having a con- nectivity issue, and I believe, you know, with our rules that allow people to participate virtually, we should have a little bit of consideration if they're having issues connecting. So I ask–again, I seek leave to have the member stand when he returns and can get connected again, his 23 minutes remaining on the clock.

The Deputy Speaker: Is there leave for the member to have his 23 minutes once his connectivity has been restored? Some Honourable Members: Agreed. An Honourable Member: No. The Deputy Speaker: I hear a no. Leave has been denied. The debate is open. Mr. Greg Nesbitt (Riding Mountain): I'm pleased to rise today to speak in support of the amendment to the motion to create a special com mittee on local journalism.

I believe this is an important step for ensuring that our local media can continue to hold govern ments accountable, provide trans parency and inform Manitobans about the issues that affect their daily lives. As members of this House, we all have a duty to support the free press–no capitals on that –and to recognize the vital role that journalism plays in our democracy. Local journalism is a cornerstone of our society. It is through local media that citizens stay informed about government decisions, com munity events and important developments that impact their lives.

Local journalists are often the first to uncover stories that might otherwise go unnoticed; stories that can expose injustices, highlight the needs of our communities and keep our governments transparent by supporting–and by supporting this committee, and the amendment to ensure everybody is included on this com mittee, we

278 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 2, 2024 are supporting the very principals of accountability and openness that we all stand for. Now, honourable Deputy Speaker, I think many people in this House, and–know that I've been involved in community newspapers, or was involved in com munity newspapers here in Manitoba for 40 years, so I think that I'm certainly qualified to speak on t he role of media in rural Manitoba, and I believe it's vitally impor tant that the commu nity newspapers, ethnic newspapers across Manitoba stay vibrant and healthy moving forward.

Now the –to that extent, sometimes I hear the word subsidies thrown around, and let's be clear, I'm not a proponent of subsidies. I think that that skews the marketplace and doesn't do justice to the fine operators of community newspapers across Manitoba. * (15:30) I think that all newspapers have ever wanted in Canada is to be recog nized by govern ments as a valuable tool for advertising. I think that in today's world, there's so many more opportunities for government to advertise in.

And so often, messages are placed on social media, Google, Facebook, things like that, and a lot of the money from provincial and federal budgets are going to these giants who contribute nothing– nothing–to the Manitoba economy. Meanwhile you have newspapers, radio stations, daily newspapers, ethnic newspapers, who contribute to the fabric of life here in Manitoba. Honour able Deputy Speaker, these newspapers don't run them - selves. They have employees. They have office space that they rent or own. They contribute to the Manitoba economy, and I truly think that their voice needs to be heard.

And by including reference in the amendment to all the papers, radio stations, that serve all of our ethnic com munities in Manitoba here is very note - worthy that this side of the House recognizes all the ethnic publications and radio stations here in Manitoba, and all we're asking to do is to amend the motion to include that and move ahead. Honourable Speaker, community newspapers are a business first and foremost. I bought my first com - munity newspaper when I was 19 years old in the community of Shoal Lake, Manitoba. And that was, like I say, I think back in 1978. I was a young guy then.

And at the age of 19, I had worked for the newspaper in my com munity while going to high school, developed a love for informing the community of what was happening in it, reporting on stories, but also selling advertising and making a busi ness o ut of it. I went to work for the Manitoba Telephone System for a year and a half. Came home one Christmas a little bit homesick, I guess, and went to the owner who had bought the paper a few years earlier from an old fellow in Shoal Lake. He came from Ontario, this other guy, and he decided he–I said to him, would you like to sell the newspaper?

He says, let me think about it. So, couple days later he called me back and he said, yes, I'd like to sell it to you. So, honour able Deputy Speaker, the deal was struck and at the age of 19 years of age, I was a com- munity newspaper publisher in Shoal Lake, Manitoba. And I must say, the community embraced me. I was a young guy, but I think they took me under their wing and figured, hey, here's a guy that wants to live and work in the community, establish a business and report on the news that's so vital to communities.

And, hon ourable Deputy Speaker, I think that there's a definite distinction between the news in com- munity newspapers and ethnic newspapers than there is in perhaps our big city dailies. I would submit that the only time the big city dailies care about small towns in Manitoba is if there's a tragic event or a scandal. Where community newspapers are owned by local people, for the most part, people who live and work in their communities and see these same people they report on, on the streets every day.

So to be a com munity newspaper publisher is very far removed from being the publisher of, say, the Winnipeg Free Press, where you can sit in a fancy office and maybe not meet people on a day- to-day basis. So, honourable Deputy Speaker, that happened in 1979 in–or, yes, 1979. In 19–let me think here–sorry. I'm losing track of time, I'm a little–that was 1977, I'm sorry. It was January 1977. In 1979, a newspaper publisher in Rossburn, again, Harry Aylwin, great fellow. Worked good with him. He was getting up in age and he thought maybe this young fellow in Shoal Lake might want to buy my newspaper.

So we made a deal. So I owned the Rossburn Review in 1979. So we had two newspapers now. Hiring more people. People had to staff a Rossburn office, and it worked well. Rossburn, as you may be aware, is 20 minutes from Shoal Lake and in the–it's now in the

December 2, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 279 fine constituency of the honourable member for Swan River (Mr. Wowchuk). So– An Honourable Member: Rossburn Review. Mr. Nesbitt: Rossburn Review, that's what it was. The minister knows that over there. He's heard that name over the past. Honourable Deputy Speaker, 1984–the Birtle Eye-Witness. Again, owned by a person in Birtle who was approaching retirement age and, again, we'd worked together with her over the years. She decided she wanted to sell their newspaper. So, again, came to the conclusion that that would be a good fit.

Again, Birtle is 20 minutes from Shoal Lake as well. So you can see the pattern here, it's kind of a– An Honourable Member: Ten minutes from Lazare. Mr. Nesbitt: –regional area. Yes, and the member reminds me that St- Lazare is in the Birtle coverage area. And St-Lazare played a big role in the newspaper's coverage in that area. We'd cover the hockey teams. The St. Lazare Outlaws, we know very well. Our good friends Martin Dupont and all the boys over there. Great hockey teams over the years in St -Lazare.

And again, you know, we were there with the cameras to take the pictures and record league championships and things like that. So community newspapers are like a history book, as the minister says. You know, he remembers all these things. He remembers these names, and the more names in community newspapers, the more successful they are. Grandparents love to read about their kids playing hockey, the 4- H clubs, things like that. So again, the word–they're called community newspapers for a reason: they report the news of the community. I guess the last newspaper I ended up buying in Manitoba was the Hamiota Echo.

The Hamiota Echo– Hamiota is 20 minutes south of Shoal Lake and approximately, I think in the early '90s, it fell on hard times and went into receivership. So you know, it – again, it became a natural fit, so made a deal with the receiver and the Hamiota Echo came into the stable of four newspapers, you know, operating in a regional area. Some of the news content would be the same because communities cross boundaries. The hockey teams play against each other. People travel to different communities.

Commu nities loved it because they could run an ad in another paper to bring people to the farm machine redealerships in Shoal Lake, or the car dealership in Birtle would run ads in all the other papers to bring people into Birtle to buy the good GM products that they sold in Birtle back in the day. Well, they still sell them in Birtle, hon ourable Deputy Speaker. So those four papers, you know, ran successfully until about 1997-98. And as it became more regional- ized, we decided to develop a product that would come out once a month included as a second

section in all those newspapers called Crossroads. So that newspaper sort of did more feature stories on the area and contained advertising maybe from a little furt her afield, where the advertisers wanted to reach a bigger market by advertising in this section. So, again, very successful things like that. Back in the early 2000s, then, the decision came that perhaps we needed to really regionalize the news- paper. So we took our all four titles, merged them together and established a newspaper–a truly regional newspaper called Crossroads This Week.

That newspaper exists today, and it serves a market from the Saskatchewan border to Minnedosa and from the national park down to Sioux Valley. So it serves a pretty big geographic area. It serves the majority of my constituency, honour able Deputy Speaker, and much of the constituency of the member for Swan River (Mr. Wowchuk). So the company then had an oppor tunity to pur- chase another newspaper in Erickson, Manitoba. It was called the South Mountain Press.

Again, another small community newspaper that really stresses local news, right on the edge of the national park, circula - tion into the national park, picked up –it was a free paper. I didn't mention, the other newspapers are paid circulation newspapers. So I think the industry went to a lot of free news- papers back in the 2000s. And we didn't go that way. The thought with free newspapers is you would send them further afield, you might carry more flyers and things like that. You assumed your readership was higher. * (15:40) I would submit that your readership might not have been higher; your circulation was.

Paid circula - tion newspapers have to be subscribed to, and I think the true measure of what you're doing with a news - paper is if people pay money to subscribe to it, and I just want to thank the fine citizens of the area that supported the newspaper over the years and continue to support it today.

280 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 2, 2024 So today my son operates the newspapers in western Manitoba: the Crossroads This Week, the South Mountain Press. And then, after he purchased the newspaper from me in 2018, the newspaper company, he–in 2022 he purchased The Minnedosa Tribune. So that's the final sort of piece of the puzzle for the area there and it's–we certainly have writers in all those commu - nities. My son has writers in all these commu nities. There's ad sales done in all these communities, and the main production facility is in Shoa l Lake where it's rather centralized.

So community newspapers started to struggle, I think, a little bit in the 2000s. That's when the big media companies decided they were going to invest in these small newspapers because they'd seen some pretty good bottom lines across Canada. And they bought up, snatched up community newspapers from people who wanted to retire. But then they sort of treated it like their own piggy bank.

They would take all these profits–rather than reinvesting in the commu- nities like local publishers that live and wor k in the community, have a vested interest in their community and area and in their employees–and took all those big corporate profits to Toronto, basically, Vancouver, places like that. So, when we had an economic downturn there, I think in the mid -2000s, perhaps, that's when perhaps advertising sales started to drop in community news - papers from a national point of view, and that really hurt the chain publications.

It really didn't do a lot for their communities and maybe lost some of their local community advertising. When the national advertising dropped off, these newspapers then started to suffer. So what did these big chains do first and fore - most? They started cutting staff. Lot of chopping done, and I think you still see that in the media today sometimes. I think CJOB just had some layoffs here a week or 10 days ago. And so the big chains, of course, driven by profit and their shareholders, h ad to cut costs because of declining advertising revenues.

And that decline was, you know –national advertising, federal gov ernment advertising. The big three auto makers started to put more of their money into web dollars, and provincial governments started to reduce their advertising. So it all added up, honourable Deputy Speaker, that community newspapers perhaps weren't doing as well as they used to. The ones that were owned by big chains were doing poorer, so. Now, fast forward to the last few years, and you found that a number of newspapers in Manitoba have closed.

And I would submit that the newspapers that have closed were all owned by chains; again, a further rationalization of lack of advertising dollars. They cut everything to the bone. There was nothing left but to close the publication or find someone to buy it for pennies on the dollar. I think, you know, we can find examples here across Manitoba. Ken Waddell, a good friend of mine from the Neepawa Banner & Press.

Ken found an op- portunity from Glacier Media to purchase their Virden operation because, quite honestly, they were suffering in Virden and bleeding ink, pardon the expression, or bleeding red ink, I guess. And I think perhaps the Virden paper was in danger of being–closing, honour- able Deputy Speaker. And I might say the good folks of Virden are part of my constituency, and I was very excited to see Ken Waddell and his wife Chris take over the Virden Empire-Advance. Ken is one of the stalwart newspaper publishers here in Manitoba.

He also operates the Rivers Banner, and I think he would back up a hundred per cent of what I'm saying here today that, you know, local media, ethnic papers, all the ethnic media here in Manitoba, radio stations that service Manitoba, they all need advertising to survive. And without advertising, the future of media here in Manitoba could perhaps be in jeopardy. I think that, you know, as I've said, local media and news outlets perform an important function in our communities and provide a valuable service to Manitobans.

I can't tell you how many times I've delivered newspapers to com munities in my area, driving them around to post offices to make sure they're there on publication day and to have people actually waiting in the post office for their newspaper. And, you know, I must commend the good folks at Canada Post and rural postal outlets that they don't wait to put the papers in the boxes; they want to put them in as quick as they can because people are –sit there demanding them.

And it's truly special to see how much, you know, residents of rural Manitoba especially ap preciate their com munity newspa per week in, week out. And, Honour able Speaker, besides, you know, publishing community newspapers, I also played a – I had the opportunity to really play a role in the industry. I served on the Manitoba Com munity Newspapers Association board, I don't know for how many years, 25 years perhaps out of my 40, maybe more, not exactly sure; I wasn't keeping track. But I held all the office positions in the Manitoba association and was fortunate to be president for a couple two- year terms

December 2, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 281 at various times. From that, I went to the national board and served on the national board for, I think, 10 or 12 years, again, becoming the president of the Canadian Community Newspapers Association, as it was known at that time, that represented 640 newspapers across Canada, community papers, ethnic papers, all papers all across Canada. Had the opportunity to visit every province, make many more friends in every province, and still, still to this day, have so many friends in the industry and love to talk to them and stay in touch with them.

To that end, there was a summit held in Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island, a few months ago about the future of newspapers in Canada and what could be done to reinforce what we see as an in- stitution that needs to be maintained. I think losing any more com munity newspapers, rural, radio or ethnic papers would be criminal. I re ally believe that everybody can't get their news from Facebook and Google, nor do they want to. So my son was one of the two publishers chosen from Manitoba to go to Charlottetown and participate in this symposium with people from the United States, people from all across Canada.

He was joined by Lana Meier from Stonewall–publishes papers up in the Interlake. They spent three days looking at the industry and what could be done, and I want to tell you there was no talk about subsidies. My son said subsidies weren't even in the question. Obviously, I think newspapers are looking for a fair shake from Google and from Facebook. Google is playing ball with the federal gov- ernment in terms of compensating the media for what they–what their algorithms take from newspapers. They're working to, you know, to compensate news - papers for that. Facebook is still holding out .

As you know, you won't see any links to news stories on Facebook these days, and I think that they're hoping that Facebook comes to their senses at some point, as well, perhaps with pressure from the federal govern - ment. Another interesting development down there was a small publisher in Alberta, publisher of the

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	43-2-9
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	43rd 2nd hansardpdf 9.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	54197cbfdc8f3c023abcfa0fa51cf7e112444674

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