April

1, 2009

HOUSE

OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS

Vol. XLVI No. 5

The House met at 2:00 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Fitzgerald): Order, please!

Admit strangers.

The Chair would like to welcome, today, students from the Occupational,

Health and Safety Program of the St. John's Campus of Keyin College who are

joining us in the public gallery. The students are accompanied by their

instructor, Ms Paulette Sampson.

I welcome you to the House of Assembly.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: The following members' statements will be heard: the hon.

the Member for the District of Burgeo & LaPoile; the hon. the Member for the

District of Baie Verte- Springdale; the hon. the Member for the District of

Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair; the hon. the Member for the District of Mount

Pearl North; and the hon. the Member for the District of Port au Port.

The hon. the Member for the District of Burgeo & LaPoile.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to congratulate Jerry Musseau on being appointed the new Fire

Chief for the Town of Channel-Port aux Basques Volunteer Fire Brigade.

Mr. Musseau joined the fire department on April 29, 1991, and has been a

dedicated and loyal member of the fire brigade for the past eighteen years.

Jerry has undergone extensive firefighting training, including: firefighting 1,

firefighting 2, basic firefighting, basic emergency management, emergency

operations center management, school bus extraction, firefighting instructors'

course, and the Hazmat training course.

Jerry is employed in his real job as terminal manager for Marine Atlantic

Inc. at their Port aux Basques terminal. He is very involved in community

activities and a valued asset to our town and our fire department in particular.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join with me in extending

congratulations to Jerry Musseau on accepting the position of Fire Chief for the

Channel-Port aux Basques Volunteer Fire Department. All the best to Jerry

Musseau, his wife Vivian, two children and one granddaughter.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Baie

Verte-Springdale.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. POLLARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise in this hon. House today to acknowledge and extend sincere

congratulations to the recipients of our government's Electoral District

Scholarships. They are: Nicholas Coish and Cassandra Butt of Indian River High,

Springdale, and Thomas Howard of Baie Verte Collegiate, Baie Verte.

The $1,000 Electoral District Scholarships are awarded to the three high

school graduates in each district who achieve the highest scholarship score.

In addition, I offer my congratulations to Sarah Whalen of Indian River High,

Springdale, for receiving the Centenary of Responsible Government Scholarship,

which is also based on the scholarship score and valued at $1,000.

These students are prime examples of the many outstanding youth we have

across this great Province who, on a daily basis, serve as mentors and role

models.

I am confident that in the not-too-distant future these outstanding students

will not only carve a successful future for themselves, but will also help carve

a bright future for this great Province and for the people of their own

generation.

Honourable members, please join with me in applauding and recognizing the

achievements of Nicholas, Cassandra, Thomas and Sarah. We wish them every

success as they pursue their dreams.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Cartwright-L'Anse

au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise in the House today to pay my respects and offer sincere sympathies to

the families of the late Mrs. Kathleen Letto and the late Mrs. Edith Letto.

Mr. Speaker, these two women were matriarchs of the community of L'Anse au

Clair. They both raised large families in the community, most of who still

reside in that area. Their contribution to their community is to be recognized

and commended.

Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Kathleen Letto passed away on March 7 at the Labrador South

Health Centre at the age of eighty-one. She is survived by three sons, four

daughters, sixteen grandchildren, three great-grandchildren, and one brother.

She was predeceased by her husband Albert Peter, who was a World War II veteran.

Kathleen was known for her dedication to family, and became the main caretaker

of her grandparents at the age of fourteen.

Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Edith Letto passed away on March 19, also at the Labrador

South Health Centre, at the age of ninety-four. She is survived by four

daughters, four sons, twenty-six grandchildren, forty-nine great-grandchildren,

five great-great-grandchildren, and two sisters. She was predeceased by her

husband Benjamin, and Edith was a long-time member of the ACW and was known for

her excellent crafting ability.

Mr. Speaker, these two pillars of the community would have been in L'Anse

au Clair through our days of Confederation and I wanted to note, because it is

April 1, that the Community of L'Anse au Clair voted 100 per cent in favour of

Confederation.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of the House to join with me in honouring the

memories of Mrs. Kathleen Letto and Mrs. Edith Letto of L'Anse au Clair.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Mount Pearl North.

MR. KENT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise in this hon. House today to recognize O'Donel High School law

students and other high school students in the metro region, from schools

including St. Bon's and Holy Heart, for their participation and commitment to

the campaign: A Child is A Child.

This campaign is under the direction of high school students under the age of

eighteen. Their goal is to have the United Nations Conventions that protect the

rights of young people respected worldwide. They are inviting students from all

over the world to join the initiative and become members of this campaign.

Their mission is focused on creating awareness, increasing accountability and

lobbying for the protection of youth worldwide. In several countries in the

world, juveniles are being executed in contravention of the United Nations

Conventions. Individuals responsible for executions in violation of the United

Nations Conventions must be held accountable. Young people everywhere deserve

the rights guaranteed them through the United Nations Conventions. They are not

yet adults, and they are in need of protection.

I encourage everyone to visit the achildisachild.com Web site and sign the

petition in order to show support for this initiative.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join me in commending the

students of O'Donel's law class and all of the students involved in the A

Child is a Child campaign. Their commitment and dedication to this cause is

admirable, and I hope that they are successful in their quest of helping these

children and youth who have no voice.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port au Port.

MR. CORNECT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I had the pleasure of attending the Growing Better Communities Conference

held in Stephenville on March 7. This conference brought together volunteers and

organizations in our community for the purpose of exploring mutual interests and

helping one another. This was a great benefit to everyone involved. 4 for

Sisterhood is a group composed of Tiffany Falle, Mag Snook, Shelly Duffett, and

Linda Collier. They are students of the Community Studies Program at the Bay St.

George Campus of the College of the North Atlantic. These students took on the

task of connecting people who wanted to help their community to associations who

needed their services as volunteers.

We all know how important volunteers are to our community. Volunteers are

people who work for their community. Their contribution can benefit one or many,

but they choose to make a difference and this is what makes them so valuable.

Some serve through non-profit organizations, others on their own, or as a part

of a group. Whatever way they choose to give, Mr. Speaker, it is always needed

and appreciated.

The willingness of people to work on behalf of others without being motivated

by financial or material gain is a wonderful trait. I was happy to see this

conference take place in Stephenville to give volunteers and organizations in

the Bay St. George area the opportunity to meet one another and work together.

Our community will definitely benefit from their generosity.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all hon. members of this hon. House to join with me, along

with all the people from our local communities in Bay St. George, in thanking

the organizers of this conference for their generosity of spirit and their big

hearts.

Merci, monsieur le prsident.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Statements by ministers.

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS POTTLE: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to provide hon. members with an

update on the Suicide and Detrimental Lifestyles Grant Program that is

administered by the Aboriginal Affairs Branch within the Department of Labrador

and Aboriginal Affairs.

We were pleased in Budget 2009 to maintain the funding for this program at

its present level of $100,000. Mr. Speaker, this government is dedicated to

increase awareness to Aboriginal groups of programs and services available to

them and further encourage their participation. The Suicide and Detrimental

Lifestyles Program is an excellent example of the progress we have made on this

commitment.

Thanks to dedicated officials in the Department of Labrador and Aboriginal

Affairs working closely with Aboriginal groups, I am pleased to report that

during this past year we received a number of applications under the program.

The department will soon have issued virtually all of the $100,000 we have

budgeted for the 2008-2009 fiscal year.

Mr. Speaker, allow me to provide a few brief examples of how Aboriginal

groups are applying this funding. The Newfoundland Aboriginal Women's Network

used it to conduct suicide intervention training; the Miawpukek First Nation of

Conne River is working to establish a Young Women's Cultural Club; the

Sheshatshiu Innu First Nation will hold a youth and elder forum to address

suicide prevention, mental health and family wellness; the Mushuau Innu First

Nation will hold workshops with youth and the community concerning suicide,

addictions and other challenges; the Labrador Metis Nation will deliver an

anti-bullying campaign; and the Nunatsiavut government will collaborate with the

Labrador-Grenfell Regional Health Authority to develop a plan to achieve a

better understanding of suicide in Labrador Aboriginal communities.

Mr. Speaker, this funding is being applied to innovative programs that are

being delivered and implemented at the community level. This government

understands that improving the health, circumstances and wellbeing of Aboriginal

people is a goal that requires a long-term, visionary and strategic approach.

The Suicide and Detrimental Lifestyles Grant Program is just one part of a

larger effort by this Administration that is helping to effect positive change

at the local level in our communities across Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador is indeed listening

to the concerns of Aboriginal groups and is taking action. We will continue to

make investments that demonstrate our commitment to address issues of high

importance to Aboriginal communities.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the minister for a copy of her statement today. I think all of us in

the House of Assembly and throughout the Province know that bullying, suicide,

mental illness and addictions are not just issues that we deal with in

Aboriginal communities. We deal with them in communities all across the Province

but we also know that they are more prevalent in Aboriginal communities and

statistics will show us that.

Mr. Speaker, we only have to go back a few years ago to realize the number of

young Aboriginal people in this Province that were taking their own lives. I am

pleased to see that those statistics are improving and I hope that grants like

this are playing a role in helping and assisting with that.

Mr. Speaker, we are pleased to see that the Department of Aboriginal Affairs

is recognizing that there is a need and is providing grants to these

communities. I am familiar with a number of the workshops that have taken place.

In fact, I know some that will take place in my own district as a result of this

funding, and I think it is needed. It is all a part of allowing not just young

people but youth and elders alike in our communities to be able to become more

self-confident, Mr. Speaker, to be able to rise to some of the challenges that

they face as a community and heal together as a family. I think there are

results from this spending and I hope government will continue with it.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?

The hon. the Government House Leader and Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, over the past several weeks our provincial

Francophone school board, the Conseil scolaire, has been celebrating its tenth

anniversary and I am pleased to rise today to offer congratulations to the board

on behalf of this hon. House.

In fact, Mr. Speaker, some members of this House have joined in the

celebrations. Minister Sullivan visited the French school in St. John's; the

MHA for Port au Port celebrated with the school in Cape St. George; and the MHA

for Labrador West joined the Francophone community in Labrador City.

Over the past ten years, much has happened in the area of French

first-language education, Mr. Speaker. One of the keys to a vibrant Francophone

community in Newfoundland and Labrador is a strong French first-language

education system. We now have five French first-language schools in the

Province, and I was pleased to recently announce a $2.2 million investment to

replace the Francophone school in Happy Valley-Goose Bay. Enrolment in French

first-language schools is growing with a 7 per cent increase over last year.

Francophone education is truly coming into its own.

In addition, Mr. Speaker, this government has contributed $10,000 to Rseau

culturel francophone, a cultural network that serves Francophone artists in the

Province, $10,000 to the production of a French language tourism guide, and over

$19,000 to Place aux Jeunes, an ongoing project aimed at attracting and

retaining young Francophones on the Port au Port Peninsula. These are just a few

examples of how the provincial government and the Francophone community are

working together to ensure the growth of French language in this Province.

Mr. Speaker, on behalf of all hon. members, I offer congratulations to

students, parents, teachers and the entire Francophone community for ten

successful years of promoting French language and culture in our Province, and

best wishes for continued growth.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to thank the minister for the advanced copy of her statement and to

say that we in the Official Opposition want to congratulate the Francophone

community on their tenth anniversary. To know that there are funds still being

provided to help such issues as Francophone artists, the French language tourist

guide, and aim at attracting young Francophones.

Mr. Speaker, we know that this is very important. As the minister stated, at

the present time there are five schools in this Province, but I have to go back

to her statement, Mr. Speaker, with regards to the announcement of the new

school for Happy Valley-Goose Bay, the $2.2 million to replace the school that

is already there. Those people are celebrating their tenth anniversary and over

the last five years they have been living in anticipation for that new school.

That school was announced not once, Mr. Speaker, not twice, but nine times that

school has been announced. I think it is time to give up lip service and provide

the service that those people so well deserve.

Mr. Speaker, I conclude by saying to the Francophone community that we want

to congratulate the students, the parents and the teachers on their tenth

anniversary and we wish them every success in the future.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?

Oral Questions.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

AbitibiBowater announced this morning that their latest plan to swap old debt

for new debt has failed. They have also indicated, Mr. Speaker, as I understand

now, that they are unable to file their annual financial statements.

I ask the minister: What does this mean for the company? Are they headed into

bankruptcy? If so, what will be the impact for the people in this Province?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Yes, I saw on the news today that Abitibi-Price had indicated that their

attempts to restructure their debt had been unsuccessful, but there is no

indication of what the company's next steps are, so at the moment the status

quo is in effect.

There are a number of options that are available to Abitibi. There are

options under the proposal

section of the Bankruptcy and Solvency Act where they

can seek protection. They can seek protection under the Company's Creditors'

Arrangement Act. They can also seek protection under

chapter 11, or

section 7 of

the Bankruptcy Code in the U.S. Until such time as they make that decision,

government will wait and then respond accordingly.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Maybe the minister can tell me, then: Under any of those acts is there

security there for the workers who have been laid off at AbitibiBowater, in

terms of ensuring that they receive their severance and pension benefits?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. MARSHALL: I cannot speak to the U.S. legislation but there are

provisions in the Canadian Bankruptcy and Insolvency Act where there is some

protection for severance under the WEPA, the federal government WEPA program,

which can provide protection up to $3,000, but apart from that severance is not

a secured debt under the legislation. It would be an unsecured debt and there

would be no protection except for what is available under what is referred to as

WEPA.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Are there any actions that the provincial government can take at this time to

try and ensure that there is security for those severance benefits to be paid

out to the workers who have been displaced in the Grand Falls-Windsor area?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, if we get into a situation that involves

protection under the Bankruptcy Act, or stays of proceedings under the Companies'

Creditors Arrangement Act, these are federal legislation beyond the legislative

competence of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

On June 12 of last year, the Public Utilities Board approved an increase to

electricity rates across the Province due to adjustments in the Rate

Stabilization Plan. At that time, oil prices were peaking at about $150 a barrel

and that was the rationalization that they used.

Today, we know that these oil prices are one-third of that cost. Even groups

like Marine Atlantic has eliminated their fuel surcharge that was being charged

to its customers, but the people in the Province are still paying high

electricity rates based on $150 oil.

I ask the minister: When can we see those rates decrease to consumers in the

Province?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, as most people in the Province may know, the Rate Stabilization

Plan is a plan that is put in place to protect ratepayers in the Province from

high rises in the cost of electricity. It accounts for the price of oil. It

keeps prices stable. Any deficit that has occurred goes into the Rate

Stabilization Plan and is adjusted after a certain period of time. So, when the

increase came, Mr. Speaker, it was to pay off monies owed to the Rate

Stabilization Plan.

Mr. Speaker, as everyone knows, electricity is regulated through the PUB, the

rate of return for Hydro is regulated by the PUB, so all of these things are

monitored very carefully and people pay no more than the PUB allows to be earned

by Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

What the minister is saying is that when they need money, the companies go

and they apply for increases. What happens in the case of a surplus, when

consumers are still paying high electricity prices in this Province? Is it up to

the Consumer Advocate to file that application on behalf of the people of the

Province, or is it up to the government to do so?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources and Deputy

Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Rate Stabilization Plan is reviewed on a regular basis. As I said, Mr.

Speaker, the production of electricity in this Province is regulated by the PUB.

Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro has a regulated rate of return, so there is no

question of that utility gouging ratepayers in the Province because there is a

decrease in the price of oil.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

At a time when we see people in this Province being laid off from their jobs,

when we are seeing the cost of living increasing as per the consumer price

indexing study that is out why is it that government is not prepared to look

at some kind of an interruption formula to give consumers in the Province a

break on their electricity at a time when they need it the most?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, this government looks at ways that we can help people reduce

their energy costs on a regular basis. We have done that in Labrador, in terms

of under the Northern Strategic Plan where we continue to add money into that

plan to relieve the burden of the price of electricity on ratepayers there. We

have our Energy Rebate Program, where we rebate energy users in this Province

every year because of the high cost of electricity. It is something we are

always mindful of, Mr. Speaker, and that we pay a lot of attention to and we

make significant investments in.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, I do not see what the issue is. Consumers out

there today in the Province are paying for electricity based on a rate

calculation of $150 a barrel for oil. Other entities - like I said, Marine

Atlantic - are reducing their prices based on the fact that the price of oil

went down.

I ask the minister: Why is it that your government, why is it that the

Consumer Advocate, why is no one intervening with the Public Utilities Board to

ensure that these consumers get a break now? You put Andy Wells over there. Are

you afraid to talk to him now that he is over there?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources and Deputy Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am not afraid to talk to anyone, Mr. Speaker, including the Leader of the

Opposition. We can stay at this all day if she wants to.

Mr. Speaker, the production of electricity and the provision of electricity

in this Province is a regulated activity - I am surprised the Leader of the

Opposition does not know this - and the rate of return to Newfoundland and

Labrador Hydro is regulated by the PUB, so there is no question in this

Province, Mr. Speaker, of any ratepayer being gouged or Newfoundland and

Labrador Hydro having windfall profits because the price of oil has gone down.

It is ridiculous, Mr. Speaker, to suggest it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, I know all about how electricity is regulated. So

are petroleum products regulated in the Province, too. Under petroleum products

there is an interruption formula, I say to the minister, so why aren't you

prepared to look at the same for electricity?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I can only continue to answer in the same way I have to the

previous questions. The amount of return that is allowed to Newfoundland and

Labrador Hydro is regulated by the PUB, one of the smallest rates of return, I

might say, of any utility in the country. This is a lean and efficient operation

we have in Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro. I can promise you, and it is quite

obvious from any review of the documents, that there is no gouging going on of

ratepayers in this Province because of a reduction in the price of oil.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In 2007, as a prelude to the election campaign and after about two years of

consultation and studies and so on, government announced its infamous Energy

Plan for the Province. Mr. Speaker, the plan indicated that there would be a

number of components to the Lower Churchill Project, the first being the damn

and powerhouse to Gull Island, which would generate around 2,000 megawatts of

power.

I ask the minister: Has this component now been costed, and roughly how much

will it cost?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we have talked a number of times publicly, in this House and

through various news conferences and so on, about the planning process that is

going into the development of the Lower Churchill River.

Mr. Speaker, we are using a five-gate process. We are in the process of

moving from Gate 2 into Gate 3. There is considerable financial information,

pre-engineering information and so on, being accumulated. That will be developed

further in the third phase of this project; and, of course, all of these numbers

are being calculated and released at the appropriate time.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, is the minister telling me at this time that her

government has not costed what it is going to be to construct - the capital cost

of construction - the powerhouse at Gull Island and the powerhouse at Muskrat

Falls, the transmission line that is going to run from Gull Island back to

Churchill Falls, if they are still going to do that? These are the components

that we are looking for. There are several components, and I ask the minister if

she can table what the capital cost is on each component of this project.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we have stated quite clearly, publicly, that this project is

going to cost anywhere from $6 billion to $9 billion, depending on what

configuration we use, what commercial arrangements we have with the sale of

power and so on. That work is being done in Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro and

at the moment, no, we are not going to release it.

All I can say is we should all give thanks that the Leader of the Opposition

is not a general in some war, because she would be posting regularly when her

next surprise attack is coming.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, there is no trouble to get the dander up of that

minister. All you have to do is ask her a few questions that she does not know

the answer to.

Well, Minister, tell me this: How much is it going to cost to run a high

voltage transmission line, running from Muskrat Falls to the Coast of Labrador,

across the Strait of Bell Isle, down through a national park on the Northern

Peninsula and into Holyrood?

Surely, Minister, you know how much it is going to cost for that transmission

line. You have already tabled the EIS on it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Indeed we do know, Mr. Speaker, but contracts are going to have to be called;

and, like everything else we do, we are going to try to get the best value for

our money. So, no, we are not going to post estimates around costs and so on.

Mr. Speaker, there is no trouble to know that Roger has been around for the

last couple of weeks. The only problem is, Mr. Speaker, it is great when they

ask questions but it is just too bad that they waited seven years to do so.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The minister is going to find out who is going to ask all the questions

before this is over. She is not out of the tangled web she is weaving for

herself yet, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask hon. members to respect and to listen to the questions being asked.

While we all like for Question Period to be enthusiastic, I ask members to

listen to the questions and listen to the answers, please.

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the Energy Plan also stated that government would investigate

options to address the Holyrood emissions. In fact, Mr. Speaker, they said by

2009 they would make a decision as to whether they would run the transmission

line from the Lower Churchill or if they would install the scrubbers and the

precipitators that were required to reduce pollutants. We know now, in 2009,

that the EIS portion of the Lower Churchill line coming to Holyrood will not be

completed, so I ask the minister: Will they now move to another plan to look at

reducing the pollutants there, or will they amend their Energy Plan to reflect a

new date for decisions?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Mr. Speaker, I know the Leader of the Opposition spends an

awful lot of time listening to the radio - that is where they get most of their

questions for Question Period - but she missed an exciting announcement again

from Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro yesterday when they reduced again the

sulphur content of the fuel that is being used at Hydro.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Three significant reductions have been undertaken since we

have taken power, and it has done much to clean up the environment in that area.

Mr. Speaker, we announced also last year that as we were doing our work and

progressing the development of the Lower Churchill we would also progress work

on precipitators to clean up and scrubbers to clean up Holyrood if the Lower

Churchill did not take place, and we are continuing to do that. We are not

leaving anything to chance. One way or the other, Holyrood is going to be

cleaned up, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The minister's Energy Plan also stated that the transmission of power from

Labrador across to the Island to Holyrood would provide an excellent opportunity

to partner with the federal government to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

I ask the minister today: What discussions are ongoing with the federal

government on this matter, and has any progress been made?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we have discussions with a wide array of people in this country

and in the United States who are extremely interested in the development of the

Lower Churchill and what it will mean in the provision of clean, renewable

energy not only to our own country but there is an opportunity for the Americans

as well.

Mr. Speaker, I am happy to say that the federal government - the Minister of

Environment, the Minister of Natural Resources - have expressed significant

interest in this project and we continue to have discussions around that issue

with them.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is obvious that there is no imminent partnership with the federal

government, according to the minister. We have not heard any announcements

around it.

What I would ask is: In the absence of the federal government investing, how

does the Province plan to finance this project?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Mr. Speaker, this is one of the best, if not the best,

undeveloped hydro project in North America. The level of interest in this

project is significant, Mr. Speaker. Everybody wants to talk to Newfoundland and

Labrador. We have a list of people who are anxious for the development of the

project and who want to talk to us about commercial arrangements.

One thing that you can count on, on this side of the House, Mr. Speaker, it

will be done properly, and it will be done in such a way to benefit the people

of Newfoundland and Labrador, and they will get a rate of return that they will

be proud of, and will be proud of, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

They have no idea how they are going to pay for this project. No idea in the

world, Mr. Speaker. It is all smoke and mirrors.

Mr. Speaker, on January 14, 2008, the Nova Scotia Power Company, Emera, and

Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro signed an MOU to explore the possibility of

bringing energy from Lower Churchill to the Maritimes and into the New England

states.

Last week we were aware of Irving Oil making an announcement, Mr. Speaker,

that they are going to access a power corridor into Maine and into the rest of

New England, including the construction of a 1,200-1,500 megawatt transmission

line.

So, Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister today: Will these latest plans for energy

generation in the Maritimes and into the New England states, and that power

corridor, have any effect on the proposal by Newfoundland and Labrador to take

the Maritime route?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

No, they will not have any negative impact, in terms of our plans for

development of the Lower Churchill, and beyond that, for wind development later

on in this Province.

We have an energy starved world out there; a world that is dependant on

fossil fuels. They have huge demands, and they forecast even larger demands that

they do not know how they are going to meet. If we generate every hydro project,

every wind project in Eastern Canada, we still would not be able to meet the

demand that is out there.

Now, Mr. Speaker, this energy plan has been lauded right throughout this

country and through the world as a visionary statement, and lays down very

clearly a plan for energy development for the next forty, fifty years, Mr.

Speaker.

I would suggest that the Leader of the Opposition spend a little bit more

time with it and get some feedback from people outside of the Province, and

outside of her own office.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We got lots of feedback in the paper this morning, I say, from the Premier of

New Brunswick, minister.

Mr. Speaker, to construct a Maritime route line from Labrador onto the Island

and across to the nearest point of Nova, which would be Cape Breton at about 104

kilometres, we are talking a huge voltage transmission line. The people of the

Province are already aware that government intends to build this transmission

line through Gros Morne Park in Newfoundland and Labrador.

I ask the minister today: The proposal for the Maritime route, will that

include a transmission line going through Cape Breton Highlands National Park as

well?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order please!

I ask members for their co-operation.

The Chair recognized the hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we will be responsible for the generation and transmission of

power through Newfoundland and Labrador, and we are fully engaged with Nova

Scotia, with New Brunswick, with New England, with Quebec. We will choose which

route we will go. All of these issues are being discussed and will be dealt with

in terms of the commercial arrangements that are arrived at and whatever

regulatory changes that are required to facilitate the transmission of power.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister: Was there any agreement,

consent, or any agreement in principle in any way given by the Province of New

Brunswick for the transmission of Lower Churchill Project power lines, because

your government has been spending a lot of money on this route, promoting it,

looking at different options?

I am just asking a question: Did you get any consent, any agreement from the

Province of New Brunswick that you could run power lines through their Province

before you started to spend taxpayers' money?

MR. SPEAKER: Order please!

The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, there is a process in this country where you apply for access.

We have talked about that here in the House before. It is called Open Access

Transmission Tariff. We have applications through Quebec looking for permission

to wheel power through Quebec, and we have applications in Atlantic Canada, New

Brunswick specifically, to wheel power through New Brunswick.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Based on the comments from the Premier in New Brunswick today, he is already

putting the marker in the ground, minister, that there is going to be no

transmission lines or development of power through his Province without adequate

compensation for the people in New Brunswick.

I ask you today: How is that any different from what was being asked for by

the Province of Quebec? You tell me if there is any difference because I do not

see any.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we do not mind any commercial arrangement that allows our

partners to get a fair return on their investment. We have, because of

commercial arrangements that, for example, Quebec has in the United States of

America, the right to apply to wheel power through that province. If we can get

the best deal in Quebec we will be more than happy to deal with Quebec, but if

we get the best deal somewhere else, than that somewhere else is where we are

going, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, I would say that the Maritime route is on life

support with that government over there right about now. Mr. Speaker, it is the

closest thing I have seen to life support in a project in my entire life.

Anyway, I ask the minister today if she will commit to table what the

government and Nalcor have spent on studies, environmental preparation and

promotion of the Maritime route to bring power through Newfoundland and Labrador

and across the Gulf and through the Maritime provinces?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We share this information on a regular basis. It is important to us that the

people of Newfoundland and Labrador know what we are doing. Not like the last

deal, Mr. Speaker, not like the last deal that these people tried to negotiate

back in 2002. We have developed the expertise within Nalcor and within

Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro to be able to facilitate this kind of planning

and to make these kinds of commercial arrangements.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS DUNDERDALE: This is not all being done from the Premier's Office

like it was done under Premier Grimes Administration, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Province's agriculture industry brings in some $500 million of revenue

to our government and employs approximately 5,000 people, yet has been hit hard

by this year's Budget. We saw $6.6 million cut from the Agrifoods division of

this Budget.

Given the repeated recommendations to diversify the Newfoundland economy away

from dependence on non-renewable resources and global concerns about food

security, how does this department justify these large cuts?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister Responsible for the Agrifoods Agency.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It runs right across the full membership of the Opposition. They never let

the facts get in the way of a good story.

There has been no money cut from the Agrifoods budget, Mr. Speaker, but we

didn't move forward with a number of carryovers this year, and that was around

$6 million.

The reason for that, Mr. Speaker: we introduced a number of new programs, and

because the programs were new there wasn't a great take-up at the front end of

the year because people were learning about the program and so on.

You know, even though we are weathering the storm really well, this is a year

when we are running a deficit. We have good money in the program. Even the

President of the Federation of Agriculture said in August: We have all the money

we need in this program. So, I don't know what has changed in four months.

Well, I do know but I am not going to talk about it here.

Mr. Speaker, we have a very good agriculture program here and one we are very

proud of.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, last year the department allocated $8 million in

Grants and Subsidies, in Production and Market Administration fund, to provide

support for direction and administration of farmers, of production and marketing

activities. Only $800,000 went into the hands of the farmers, and this year's

Budget cut the program by over $2 million.

I ask the minister: Why was it so difficult for farmers to access this fund,

and how does your department justify rolling this revenue into other areas of

government?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister Responsible for the Agrifoods Agency.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Mr. Speaker, there is nearly $30 million a year that goes

into agriculture in this Province, and I am happy to point out well I am not

sure if I am happy to point out. I am proud that this government puts more money

into agriculture than the federal government does in this Province. We are the

only province in this country that can say that. We bring more money to the

table for our farmers than any other province in the country.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: The federal government brings more money to the rest of

them than they do to us.

We recognize the value of agriculture and we continue to put money into

programs.

There was no program cut this year, Mr. Speaker. The only difference is, we

thought the carryover money could be better utilized than dragging it forward.

There is lots of money in the program, we are excited about our new programs,

and we look forward to continued success of the industry here in the Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The time allotted for questions and answers has expired.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.

Tabling of Documents.

Notices of Motions.

Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given.

Petitions.

Petitions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am here today to present another petition on behalf of the people of Long

Island and the surrounding area with regards to a Long Island causeway, a

petition for a new causeway.

Mr. Speaker, those individuals were promised a causeway back in 2003 and then

they stated, due to financial reasons they had to put it on hold because this

Province was near bankrupt. Then, this year, we know there is a deficit of $750

million. Those people have concerns with regards to their children having access

to schools, the products from the fish plant being able to leave and go to

market, also medical services, and in the evening they are wondering about when

they could get their services upgraded and have concerns in the evening when

there is no ferry for them there.

I call upon the hon. members of this House of Assembly from that particular

area, during the Budget Debate, if they would stand and support their residents,

support their constituents with this petition. They have received petitions, as

well, and I think it is only fair for them to stand and present the petition on

behalf of their constituents.

Mr. Speaker, I believe that this is a good initiative and we are calling upon

government to reconsider the causeway to Long Island, or if not, provide a

proper service for them with the ferries and the new facility that they are

asking to be constructed so that those people will not be abandoned on this

particular island in various times throughout the year.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further petitions?

Orders of the Day.

Orders of the Day

Private Members' Day

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, being Private Members' Day, we will start debate

on the motion put forward by the Opposition House Leader.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased today to table the following resolution for debate in the House

of Assembly, and I am sure it will be a lively debate:

WHEREAS nurses of the Province have finished the strike vote with

nearly a 90 per cent strike mandate in favour of strike action; and

WHEREAS nurses are continuing to go through the collective bargaining

process with negotiations scheduled to resume on tomorrow; and

WHEREAS the government's preconditions included such things as a four-year

contract with concessions, including extended earnings loss, market adjustment

letter and classification; and

WHEREAS government held a news conference on February 12, 2009 indicating

that preconditions no longer apply to the nursing negotiations; and

WHEREAS the Minister of Finance reinstated the preconditions as part of his

unscripted Budget Speech on March 26, 2009;

THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that this House of Assembly calls upon the

government to remove all preconditions before resuming negotiations with the

nurses' union on tomorrow in order to reach an agreement, and an agreement

that would be in the best interest of the people of the Province.

Mr. Speaker, we tabled this motion in the House of Assembly because we feel

that it is important - to use the government's own words - that if you make a

commitment you keep your commitment. If you give your word, you keep your word.

Where have we heard all of these phases before? We have heard them all before

in the context of the government opposite dealing with the federal government

and Prime Minister Stephen Harper. Every time that there was a commitment made,

or a commitment was broken, or the

interpretation of what the Prime Minister's

word was, this is a government that has been out yelling and bawling and

stamping their feet on the steps of every platform that they could get on,

talking about: How dare you make a commitment and you break your commitments?

Well, Mr. Speaker, this is certainly a case in which government gave their

word to nurses in what I thought at the time in good faith to get them to come

back to the bargaining table by saying that we would take all preconditions off

the table, we will sit down and we will have a discussion, and we will see if we

can come to a consensus that we can live with as a government and that you can

live with as nurses, and that will provide for a strengthened health care system

in our Province.

Mr. Speaker, what happened was before that meeting ever took place, before

there was ever an opportunity for those nurses and government to sit face to

face to sort out these issues, government walks in at a moment's notice, in

the middle of the Budget Speech, one of the most important speeches and

documents that gets tabled in the House of Assembly every single year, and it

was in the middle of tabling that Budget Speech that the Minister of Finance

said, unscripted: This is not usual, this is unusual from what I understand, but

I am going to do it anyway. He comes out and he lays upon the table all the

preconditions, all the preconditions that only days before, only weeks before,

they had given their word, they had given their commitment to nurses, that it

was off the table.

Mr. Speaker, I laugh because this is a government who loves to get out and

beat up on the federal government when they do not keep their word, when they do

not keep their commitments. Yet, they are doing the very same thing themselves

to a public sector group in this Province: in this case, nurses.

Mr. Speaker, I think the interest of everyone is better served here if you

leave the political games and the bullying tactics out of it. The bullying

tactics of government have only served to inflate and irritate nurses right

across the Province. I know, Mr. Speaker, because not only did I listen to what

was said in the media, but I get a lot of e-mails from nurses, as well, who

really feel today that they are being disrespected, not just in the positions

that they hold in the Province. They also feel there is no respect for the very

process that they have to bargain within to try and advance the issues that are

important to them.

They only feel that way because they have been led to feel that way by the

Minister of Finance and by the government. If they did not pull the tactic that

they did last Thursday, on Budget day, we would not be standing here in this

House of Assembly today debating this motion. We would probably be standing here

debating a very different motion: a motion that would call upon the government

to get a deal with nurses, in order to preserve the integrity of the health care

system, so that we do not find people right across Newfoundland and Labrador

having to wait longer for surgeries and for beds, and for diagnostic testing and

for treatments.

We would probably be standing here today debating a motion in which we would

be supporting the government in getting a resolution with nurses in the

Province; but, Mr. Speaker, we are not doing that today. We are not doing that.

We are here debating the motion that is before us for one reason only, and that

was because there was a commitment made by the government opposite that we would

go back to the bargaining table with nurses, we would go back in good faith, we

would remove the preconditions that were currently there, we would start over

and we would work tirelessly to get a deal with nurses in the Province.

That did not stay true, Mr. Speaker. In fact, it is the complete opposite and

it is rather disappointing. It is rather disappointing, because if you look at

the events that have transpired in the last few months with nurses in this

Province as they went out to try and raise the profile of their issues, as they

went out looking to secure the best collective agreement that they could

possibly get for their members - and that is not usual. That happens with every

union in this Province, Mr. Speaker. Any union that is worth its salt, any union

that is doing the job of representing its members, is always going to go out and

work hard to get the best deal that they can get.

Mr. Speaker, the measure of what is the best deal for one group may be a

little different for the other group, and that is what we are finding in this

Province today. I have talked to NAPE workers, I have talked to CUPE workers, I

have talked to people who work at the college, I have talked to people who work

with the RNC, and I have to say that all of these groups are quite satisfied,

quite satisfied, with the agreements that have been negotiated with their

unions. That is why they have settled. That is why today they do not have a beef

with government any more on their collective bargaining piece.

Nurses, Mr. Speaker, are measuring what they need in a very different way. I

say that because we all know that the nursing profession in this Province is

understaffed. We also know that the conditions under which many nurses work

every single day are not ideal. I bet every member in this House of Assembly has

talked to nurses in their districts. I bet some of you have talked to nurses who

said: Well, I am okay. I am doing all right. I am making a good wage. We have a

pretty good complement of staff.

I bet you have all talked to nurses who have said: I cannot get any vacation

time. I cannot get family time. I am doing double shifts. I am not getting paid

for the work that I do. I am afraid that I am going to make a mistake on my job

and it is going to cost somebody their life.

I have heard both sides of it, Mr. Speaker, and both sides of it exist. Both

sides of it exist, but I will tell you one thing. The one thing that you cannot

dispute is the shortage of nurses that exists in the Province today.

Where do we recruit those nurses from? We only have several options. One is

right here in our own Province, Mr. Speaker, and in the last few months I have

met with a number of nursing students. Guess what? Every second nursing student

who I have met with is going outside the Province to take a job. They are going

for different reasons. They are getting bigger sign-on bonuses. Their starting

salaries are much higher. They are not going to be expected to work sixteen or

twenty hours a day with back-to-back shifts. Mr. Speaker, these are the things

that are enticing nurses to move outside the Province and work.

I have talked to some nurses who are going to stay in the Province, but they

will only work in certain areas of the Province because they get a bigger bonus

if they sign on with the board in this area of the Province as opposed to the

other area of the Province. They don't have to work as many hours, they get

regular work weeks, if they sign on with this board in this facility.

Mr. Speaker, even in our own Province we are unable to retain the complement

of nurses that we need, but worse than that, we are not retaining the graduates

who are coming out. There are still far too many who are leaving, and they are

leaving more for work and lifestyle issues and monetary reward.

Where else do we go? We go into Atlantic Canada where, today, nurses are

being paid substantially higher than our own nurses; also, going in to recruit

in a region that has nursing shortages itself, that is projecting more nursing

shortages over the next number of years, Mr. Speaker, as more nurses retire from

the system.

Where else do we go to recruit? Do we go to places like British Columbia

where they are building new hospitals and, today, are looking to recruit

something like 3,000 nurses? How do we compete with that, when already their

salary scales are much higher than ours are?

I am not saying that we need to be paying what they are getting in Alberta or

British Columbia or in Ontario, but what I am saying is that we need to pay our

nurses at a rate that is respectable and in line with the rest of Atlantic

Canada. We need to put in programs that will allow them to recruit more nurses

into the system, so we don't have situations like we have today with surgeries

being cancelled in Happy Valley-Goose Bay, with surgeries being cancelled in St.

John's. In fact, we have already been told. There were more cardiac surgeries

cancelled at Eastern Health, at the Health Sciences Centre, in the first quarter

of this year than for the full twelve months last year. Do you know why a lot of

those surgeries were cancelled? Do you know the reasoning they gave us? The

shortage of nurses was one of the primary reasons why these surgeries have been

cancelled, that and the shortage of anaesthesiologists.

So, Mr. Speaker, we already know and we are already seeing the trend. When

you start seeing more surgeries being cancelled in one specialized area in the

first quarter of one year than you did in the full twelve months of last year,

and you have people in the system telling you that it is attributed to the

shortage of nurses, at what rate is the government not going to get the picture?

At what juncture are you not going to understand that the shortage of nurses in

this Province is contributing to a lower degree of health services for people?

Meaning they have to wait longer, meaning they have more surgeries postponed,

meaning there are less beds that can be available for people that need to be

hospitalized. This is what we are seeing. We are getting calls all the time.

That is why we have encouraged government to look at non-pattern bargaining

when it comes to nurses. You look at non-pattern bargaining when it comes to

doctors, when it comes to specialists, when it comes to pharmacists, when you

deal with the RNC in lots of cases, which is done in a very different manner

than the rest of the public service. There are precedents in this Province,

precedents that have been set by the government themselves.

Last year we saw them deal with pathologists and oncologists. That was not a

part of pattern bargaining in any way. It was specialized responses to a

situation in the Province that required government's attention, required

government's investment, because they wanted to protect the integrity of the

system and ensure that people who needed to see a pathologist or an oncologist

would have those services. So they went out on a limb and they did what they had

to do to retain them in the Province, to keep them in the positions so that if I

am sick today or you are sick today or someone in our district is sick today,

they at least know they can walk in and they can have those services, but they

did not do it through pattern bargaining. They did it through a special

initiative that was required to respond to a problem.

Well, we have another problem in the Province, and it is a problem with our

nurses. I think that government should go to the table with nurses with an open

mind. Without the preconditions that the minister outlined in his Budget Speech

on Thursday, but without any expectation, other than being able to come to a

consensus that government can afford and live with, that nurses can accept, and

that will allow us to recruit and retain more nurses in our system and allow us

to protect the integrity and strengthen our health care system.

That is why we put forward this motion today, Mr. Speaker, and I am sure we

will hear lots of debate from the members opposite.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER (T. Osborne): The hon. the Minister of Health and Community

Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to take a couple of minutes this afternoon to make some comments on

the private member's motion.

I was listening to the Leader of the Opposition talk about the motion itself

for a little while but then she talked a lot about nursing and what was

happening in the profession, what was happening in our health system. I think

that is an important context to create, but there is a piece of information that

she has been sharing - and I will not challenge some of the comments that she

made around the great work that nurses do, because I too believe, we as a

government believe, that nurses in this Province do a great job. They provide

quality patient care and they genuinely want to make sure they do what is best

and what is right for the patients that they serve. So I would never challenge

that, Mr. Speaker.

In fact, I think this government has clearly demonstrated in the last couple

of years, with the investments we have made in our health system, with the

investments we have made in nursing, the number of new positions we have

created, the amount of money we have invested in making sure that they have a

quality work life, I think is a testimony to our government's and speaks

volumes, I think, for our government's commitment to enhance the profession of

nursing in this Province, and generally, to make some overall improvements in

our health system.

When you start talking about health care in Newfoundland and Labrador, and

nursing in Newfoundland and Labrador, I think it is really important to create

some national context for this. All you need to do, Mr. Speaker, is to pick up

any newspaper, pick up any newspaper in the country today, and you will hear

stories that are very similar to the ones that the member opposite was just

referring.

I am looking at a commentary here from a nurse in New Brunswick, talks about

nursing for twenty-nine years. She goes: every day, every shift, we come to work

knowing that a full complement of nurses will not be there when we get there.

I look at another comment from a nurse coming out of Grand Prairie, with

eighteen years experience, talking about the same thing. I picked up a copy of a

newspaper out of Banff, and they talked about the exact same thing.

You can go through any paper in the country, I say, Mr. Speaker, and they

will talk about what is happening in their community within nursing, within the

health system. Every single jurisdiction in the country is having a similar

conversation.

I think one of the things we need to better understand, I think, Mr. Speaker,

as we talk about the offer that is on the table for nurses, my colleague made

comment the other day in the House about some enhancements that are being made

to the offer that was there. When we start talking about the nursing profession,

let's examine a little bit about some of the things that we have done as a

government. I just talked a little bit about what has happened around the rest

of the country and what is happening in Newfoundland and Labrador, and this is

nothing new, this is nothing new at all.

In fact, one thing about the proceedings in this House, every single word

that a person says in this House of Assembly is recorded in Hansard. I know

there have been comments made in this House in recent past about how the

Opposition have hired a former Minister of Health to be one of their advisers,

someone who is providing advice to the current Liberal Party and the current

leader on issues around health and other public policy issues. That very same

person was a Minister of Health at one time.

Let me just read for you in Hansard about what she said back in 1998. In

December of 1998, the current advisor to the Leader of the Opposition on health

issues, who herself was a former health minister, was talking about this very

thing in 1998 in response to questions by our party around what was happening in

health care. She said at that time, in December 1998, the then Minister of

Health, the current advisor to the current Opposition leader on health issues,

says, "Everybody knows that our health care system is under a lot of

stress. We have made a number of statements", "the health care

system today is under a lot of stress and, as I read in my Ministerial Statement

previously, we have put some $20 million back into the system last year."

Twenty million dollars as if it is a lot of money.

Mr. Speaker, when I pick up an analysis of our government's investment in

money, well here is what I am looking at. On operational budgets alone, I see

this year we are increasing our health budget's expenditure on operations, not

capital, not equipment, but just operations alone by $186 million.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Last year, it increased by $217 million; the previous year,

$146 million; the previous year, $168 million; the previous year, $98 million.

Here we are, just a few short years before that, the members opposite, their

minister stood and bragged about how they have invested $20 million over last

year. So, Mr. Speaker, it pales in comparison.

When we start talking about the investments this government is making in

health care, that is the economic investment, that is the amount of money we

have invested, but just look at how we have spent that money, Mr. Speaker, how

that money has been spent and what advantage that has been to the nursing

profession in this Province.

Just to talk about some of the improvements we have made: We have increased

the number of nursing positions in the community health system in the last three

budgets, Mr. Speaker. We have greater capacity working at a community level than

we have ever had in our history. We have increased the number of nursing

positions that we have had in our acute care settings. We have increased the

number of nursing positions that we have in our long-term care settings. While,

in fact, we do today have a shortage in some areas we have also increased the

number of positions in our system throughout the last couple of years.

In the last two or three years particularly, Mr. Speaker, we have been

successful in recruiting about 80 per cent of the new graduates coming out. The

member opposite talked about how she has spoken to some graduates who are coming

out this year who have made decisions to go elsewhere. There will always be, Mr.

Speaker. Every single graduate that comes out the programs in this Province will

not always want to stay here in this Province. There will be personal choices

they will make. Their personal circumstances, their career aspirations, will

take them elsewhere. That is to be said not just for nursing. That is to be said

for engineers, teachers, technologists of all kinds, who will make decisions

around where they may want to live.

When we examine our efforts as a government, working with our four health

authorities to try to attract more nurses to stay, try to work with them to

ensure that we create a quality workplace for them in which to be proud, that

they want to stay and be a part of - in fact last week, Mr. Speaker, our

government hosted a forum on health care, a nursing forum. We brought together

some 140 people from within the nursing profession. They were front line

workers, they were union representatives, they were professional association

representatives, members of the health authorities, and they came together and

spent a full day talking about quality workplaces, what constitutes a quality

workplace. They talked about effective utilization of human resources in our

health system; that is nursing human resources. They talked about models of

clinical practice. They had some leaders from around the country come in and

talk about their experiences in other jurisdictions, what has worked well in

those provinces, what has worked well for them in ensuring that they create a

work environment, that they create a workplace where people want to work, are

pleased to work and want to stay. These are some of the things that we have

done, Mr. Speaker, to ensure that we have, in this Province, an adequate supply

of capable, competent, well-trained individuals.

I just commented a moment ago about the kind of investments we have made in

health care, and we will continue to make improvements in our system. We will

continue to enhance programs and services, but I want to speak for a moment, Mr.

Speaker, around the nursing profession.

Yes, members opposite have acknowledged and commented around the number of

people who might be retiring in the next number of years. We have talked about

the recruitment success that we have had, and some of the things that we need to

be doing, but what is interesting about some of the comments made by members

opposite is we need to be competitive. The Leader of the Opposition points out

that we need to be competitive with other jurisdictions. We need to make sure

our compensation schemes are equivalent to or competitive with other

jurisdictions, but compensation is one piece of this, I say, Mr. Speaker. Some

of the other things that we have heard from the nursing profession in recent

days is, money is important to them. Yes, we all acknowledge that, but one of

the other things that they have talked about is the quality of their work life.

That is one of the reasons I say, Mr. Speaker, in fact the primary reason,

that is the primary reason that we as a government want to work with the health

authorities and want to work with the unions and the professional associations

to ensure that we, in fact, are focusing on quality work life issues.

Today, as we speak, we have partnered with the nurses' union. The

Newfoundland and Labrador Nurses' Union are partnering with two of our health

authorities on two projects, two special projects, one in Central Newfoundland

and one within Eastern Health, as a partnership has been formed between the

health authority and the nurses' union where they have zeroed in on and

targeted a particular initiative in a particular institution to try to bring

about real change in the quality of work life, bring about real change with what

is happening around them in the workplace, all with a view - because all of us

have the same interests here. The union has the interest, the employees

themselves have an interest, the health authorities have, and we as a government

all have a similar interest here in ensuring that we have quality workplaces.

We can improve the quality of working life if we work together collectively.

That is why I commend both of those health authorities and the nurses' union

for acknowledging that there is a role for all of us to play in this process.

That is why they have come together in a partnership relationship, to work

collaboratively in ensuring that they are able to look at what is best practice,

what is happening in workplaces around this country to ensure that they are able

to improve the quality of work life.

I was speaking at this conference I referenced earlier that took place last

week. I was speaking with someone from a hospital in Ottawa who was there as a

guest speaker and she was sharing her experiences and the experiences of the

organization that she is a part of. She was sharing some thoughts and some ideas

as to what they did in Ottawa to make a real improvement. One of the key

ingredients, Mr. Speaker, and one of the key success factors, was their ability

to work collaboratively with all people involved, which was the administration

of the institution, the front line employees, the union that represented the

employees, all coming together in the same fashion that I just described a

moment ago as we are doing in both Central and in Eastern Health. Because we

believe that if we focus on quality work life issues, we believe that if we work

with the unions and work with the employees to identify those issues that are

important to them, then we will, I believe, achieve the same level of success as

they have done at the Ottawa hospital that I was describing earlier.

Clearly, Mr. Speaker, the substance of the motion before us today for some

debate, and tabled by the Opposition, is around the current set of negotiations.

I say, Mr. Speaker, very clearly, and I want to link here now their motion and

the comment made by the Leader of the Opposition when she once again called on

government to ensure that we have a compensation scheme in this Province that

makes us competitive with other jurisdictions, to ensure that as new graduates

look at where they want to pursue their career they will realize that

compensation should not be an impediment to their staying here.

As we start talking about Newfoundlanders, or talking to Newfoundlanders and

Labradorians, who once before made a decision to move somewhere else, we would

be anxious to have them return to the Province and we need to ensure that our

compensation in this Province is competitive with other jurisdictions if they

are to be lured back to Newfoundland and Labrador, to come back home and

continue to practice within their chosen profession.

I say, Mr. Speaker, with what has been laid before the nurses' union now,

what has been commented on by my colleague the President of Treasury Board and

has been mapped out for them, clearly would provide for them a very competitive

wage package. I believe, Mr. Speaker, that after tomorrow when the set of

negotiations resume, that through further discussion between my colleague, the

President of Treasury Board, and the nurses' union, I think at the end of the

day there will be recognition that the offer before them is a reasonable one. It

makes us competitive, which is the question by the Leader of the Opposition. Her

request is to ensure that we are competitive with other jurisdictions, and we

believe that the offer now does just that.

Mr. Speaker, I just want to conclude, if I could, on this particular comment

because it is an important point. A part of this debate and a part of the

comments by the union and by some of the people representing nurses in the

Province is that this is not all about compensation. It is about quality of work

life and the role that they play in the system.

Mr. Speaker, I want to say today, on behalf of the Government of Newfoundland

and Labrador and as the Minister of Health and Community Services, I want to

clearly say, that we as a government, we and the health authorities, clearly

value and appreciate the work that the nurses do in this Province. We recognize

that they are a major part of our system. In fact, they are the largest single

group of employees in our health system who do quality work, and they are very

much an integral part, providing some strong leadership roles in the

organization in which they work.

Whether it is a long term care setting, a community setting, an education

setting, or a research setting, nurses are not only providing quality care, but

providing strong leadership, the visionary insights into what our future health

system should look like. We value the work that they do, we appreciate the work

that they provide for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, and we look

forward to continuing to build on the relationships that we have had in the

past, and will continue to work collaboratively in ensuring that we work in the

best interests of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

On that note, Mr. Speaker, thank you for the time and the opportunity to make

those few comments.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

It is a privilege today to be able to stand and make a few comments with

regard to the Private Member's Motion put forward by my hon. colleague from

Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

I guess, just to look at the Private Member's Motion to begin with, we know

that negotiations are to begin again tomorrow, and we hope that there will be an

announcement tomorrow, or in the very near future, that government and the

nurses have come to an agreement and there will not be any need for a strike,

even though the nurses have received a tremendous mandate to do so.

Mr. Speaker, in our Private Member's Motion, we noted that in February of

2009 at a press conference, the government took away the preconditions with

regards to the negotiations with the nurses, but then again the Minister of

Finance reinstated those preconditions in the Budget Speech which took place on

March 26. All we are asking government to do in this motion here today, is to

call upon government to remove the preconditions before resuming negotiations.

Mr. Speaker, we all know that collective bargaining is a very important

instrument when it comes to workers in our province, regardless if it is nurses

or whatever particular trade it might be. I mean, collective bargaining begins

with a process of negotiation between management and the union representatives,

for the purpose of arriving at a mutual acceptable wage and a working condition.

We understand and we know, from the nurses, that they have said, numerous times,

that why they are taking this strike vote is not altogether with regards to the

financial end of, and not altogether with the conditions in the facilities where

they work, but the working conditions that they have to go through from time to

time.

I know the Minister of Health, when he was up, stated, regardless what a

former administration did back in 1998, but I have to remind him that, I guess,

when a barrel of oil was around $25 a barrel it is quite a difference than if

you average it out to be $86 a barrel or the $150 a barrel that we enjoy today,

coming from projects that just came on stream just a few years ago.

He also mentioned about the nurses in other jurisdictions, where you can read

letters from any Province with regards to the conditions for nurses and the

shortage of nurses in those particular provinces. Mr. Speaker, I would say that

is little consolation to the problems that we have here. I think that we should

just deal with the issues that are placed before us.

As I stated, negotiations are beginning again tomorrow and we know that

nurses had a mandate to strike, a strike mandate of 89.7 per cent across the

board when you calculate in the four regions of our Province.

Mr. Speaker, we have heard comments made such as, if they should go on strike

they will be legislated back to work, and so on. That is all fine and that has

happened in the past, but because it happened in the past it is not right to see

that it happens again. Those individuals go through a very trying time and they

are a very important component to the operation of health care in our Province.

As far as I am concerned, Mr. Speaker, those individuals deserve better.

Many of the hon. members here in this House attended a breakfast just last

year that the nurses sponsored one morning, and we heard the individual stories,

and how one young individual said that when she graduated this year she was

not with regards to the wages, even though she could just across the Gulf and

get a tremendous increase in her wages, but it was the working conditions that

she would have to put up with over there, and the time matter as well.

Mr. Speaker, from time to time we see different articles as the minister

mentioned, letters that he has seen in the paper from outside the Province, in

various other jurisdictions. It was only back a few months ago there was a

letter in the local paper here in St. John's from a doctor. As a matter of

fact, I think at one particular time he lived in the Bay Roberts area and

probably practiced there. He went on to say he was a family doctor but he was

also an emergency room physician. He stated then, at that particular time, that

he felt the conditions with the nurses was in a crisis situation. Those are his

words, not mine. He said they were burnt out, over worked, and they cannot

continue when they are in that particular state to offer excellent health care

services to the individuals patients.

I think I mentioned this before, but it is only this past Christmas, in the

general hospital in Carbonear, the Carbonear General Hospital, where I reside,

where I know of a particular individual who was on duty, on a twelve-hour shift.

She was supposed to be replaced, but because the other people were overworked

and they just didn't come in, this lady had to serve there for twenty-four

hours; twenty-four hours in an emergency unit. This is the kind of situation we

are in, when there is a shortage of individuals. They deserve better, Mr.

Speaker.

We have to get away from talking about; it is all about money. It is not all

about money. It is about a way to recruit new nurses, different individuals. I

mean, some of those people are mandated to work twenty-four hours shifts,

endless hours of overtime. Finally, when you are working under those conditions,

you have to realize that you become exhausted and it is not a safe environment

either for the nurses or for the patients they have to deal with.

I think we have to work together more with the nurses. When it comes to

negotiations, I think government should sit down with them, put all the

pre-conditions to one side, and start afresh, and hopefully they can come to an

agreement, that we will not see a strike here in this Province. Nobody wants to

see that, let me assure you.

We say, from time to time, with regards to the recruitment and retention of

nurses I mean, many of those issues cannot be fixed with money alone. You

take people with twelve-hour shifts, a tremendous workload, it limits their

ability. There are many positions in this Province that have been vacant now for

over two or three years, and people are unable to fill them. There are

astounding numbers that people consider from time to time. They find it very

difficult, not because of the finance part of it, but working under such stress

and with such workloads facing them.

Mr. Speaker, you will hear nurses make comments from time to time about how

the conditions have deteriorated over the past four or five years. It was only

when I attended the Municipalities Convention in Corner Brook this past fall

a colleague of mine from out in the Conception Bay North area, on his way back

to his community I asked him was he going to go directly home today. He said,

no, he was going to visit his daughter on the way across the Island. I asked him

where she was working, and he said she was a nurse. But, he said, do you know

something? She is worked to the point now that when she serves three or four or

five twelve-hour shifts, when she goes home she will not stay in the house

because she is fearful she is going to get a call and be asked to come back in

and have to serve a twenty-four hour shift. Mr. Speaker, that is the condition

those nurses find themselves in, not only in that particular incident but in

many other incidents similar to that.

It was only this fall I attended a fiftieth anniversary on Coley's Point,

and one of the daughters in that household is a nurse who will graduate this

year. She said there is nothing I would rather do than stay here in my Province

and practice my profession. She said it is not altogether about the money, even

though I can make more money other places and probably help to pay down my

student loan all that much faster, but she said, I know what people are going

through. I have been on my work terms and I see the conditions that nurses here

today have to work in. That is why she said, I may be moving outside of this

Province, for no other reason. I want to stay here. This is where the nurses are

coming from, Mr. Speaker.

There was another lady who called me only recently in a neighbouring district

of mine, expressing concerns that the nurses have in that particular area, and

the numbers of individuals who are getting to a certain age level now that there

will be massive numbers retiring in the next five or six years. They cannot see

- unless there is a recruitment program in place to attract more nurses to our

Province. I know the minister said there are more seats this year and more of

the individuals who are graduating here in the Province are deciding to stay

here, and that is all good, but the numbers are so large, Mr. Speaker, that more

has to be done.

This particular lady said to me, my husband is retiring. He is a civil

servant as well. She said he is retiring in two years. As matter of fact, he is

with the Department of Transportation and Works. She said once he retires I am

going to leave and go outside the Province so I can finish my career. I just

cannot take it any longer here, not because of the financial end of it but

because of the workload and the stress and strain that I am putting myself

through and not being able to provide an adequate level of care for the people

that I represent.

Mr. Speaker, the list can go on. There are many people, many individuals who

find themselves in the same position. We hear them on the Open Line shows. We

read their letters in the paper, where they are telling us right upfront that it

is not the money. We saw the e-mails come in after the minister made this

comment in the Budget last week. They said government still does not understand.

The issue is not a financial one. Even though, and I think the majority of them

agree, who would not agree with the offer that has been put forward, but it is

more than the financial end of it that those individuals are talking about.

We hear so often with regards to - and it was only recently. I think it was

at the Lab health centre, the OR was shut down so nurses could be at the

emergency unit. Mr. Speaker, that is unacceptable. I know full well in our own

area many individuals - because recently, there last year, or year-and-a-half

ago there was such a shortage of doctors in the area the emergency unit at the

Carbonear hospital was just overflowing with people coming there for whatever

reason. They thought it was an emergency, and because of the shortage of

individuals, the individual nurses who are operating in those hospitals, it was

just a backlog and people used to have to work for as high as a twenty-four hour

shift.

Mr. Speaker, all we have to do is go and visit any patient or any constituent

of ours in the hospital and we can see how those individuals work their

schedules. I was over at the Health Sciences only about two weeks ago visiting a

constituent of mine. The people on that particular floor had so many patients to

look after, and the shortage of nurses there at that particular time, they were

actually running from room to room. That is all fine, and they do a tremendous

job for us, but I believe we have to have more nurses and a better retention

program and so on.

We also heard recently from the Health Sciences back in January of 2009,

twenty-seven of sixty-five cardiac surgeries were cancelled, and seventeen of

them were due to nursing shortages.

Mr. Speaker, those are not facts that we are making up, those are not just

stories you pull out of the air. Those are concerns from the individuals that we

are referring to in this particular private member's motion.

All we are asking government, all we are asking them to do is that when they

go back to the table tomorrow to remember not only that they do have a 90

per cent strike vote, but that is not what they want. They do not want to hit

the streets. They did that before and they know what it is like to be on strike.

I am sure the government of that particular day, as well as the government

today, do not want to see a strike any more than what happened at that time. At

least when they go back to the table tomorrow, all we are asking in this private

member's motion and asking members on the government side to consider when

they vote today - there is nothing here out of the way - all we are asking is

that the preconditions that were placed on the table originally, and were taken

off, are now back on again. All we are saying is to really consider this and ask

that when we go to the negotiations tomorrow that those preconditions, before

you resume negotiations, that they would be removed. That is all we are asking

for.

I think the nurses of this Province, the least we can do as they go into

their negotiations tomorrow, is go with a clean slate. Forget about what was

said in the past on either side. Hopefully, the people of this Province will be

able to say tomorrow, or over this weekend, that this strike has been settled.

The nurses have agreed, have come to an agreement that not only the wages that

have been offered to them has been accepted, but also the working conditions

that they so deserve to have, better working conditions, and hopefully more

nurses will come on stream so that they can continue on and provide the health

care that the residents of this Province so rightfully deserve.

So, Mr. Speaker, with that, I will complete my comments and listen to what is

being said by the other members.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Conception Bay South.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FRENCH: It is good to see, Mr. Speaker, my colleagues in the House

are so intent on listening to my fifteen minutes today, and I hope they will

cheer right along as I speak throughout the evening.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FRENCH: Mr. Speaker, it is all right, certainly, to have a little

joke at the beginning of it.

Mr. Speaker, this is a very serious situation that we have here. We are

debating a private member's motion today, but if you were to listen to some of

the members of the Official Opposition, you would think that none of us in this

House have ever been approached by a nurse, do not know what nursing is.

Certainly, we have a lot to learn about nursing itself.

I am not a nurse, personally, but I am fortunate to have had the pleasure, I

guess, of dealing with nurses. I had a family member in hospital last year for

almost six weeks. So I too, like the Member for Port de Grave, did see nurses in

action pretty well every single day for a five or six week period, and I take my

hat off to nurses, Mr. Speaker. There is no one that doubts their ability. They

are very well-educated people. They know what they are doing. My full admission,

I was the first one to sing out to a nurse when trouble arose. Certainly, I

would not know what to do in the case of my family member.

Mr. Speaker, there is no one, nobody, who does not respect what nurses do. As

a matter of fact, we certainly respect it. Many of us around here, we have

family members and we have friends who are nurses. As a matter of fact, Mr.

Speaker, in my case in particular, and I know many others, we have people who

work on our campaigns who are nurses.

So to say that we live in some kind of bubble and we do not associate with

nurses, and we do not get feedback from nurses. I get e-mails from nurses and I

talk to nurses in my district. I talk to them on the phone and I am certainly

plugged in to many of the issues they face. I know when I say that I speak for

all of government, Mr. Speaker, because all of us are in touch, and we are all

hoping, certainly, for a speedy resolution. Hopefully, tomorrow when the

Minister of Finance meets with the nurses union, hopefully by tomorrow or late

tomorrow evening we will get a beautiful press release saying this is all dealt

with, over with, and we will move right on. That would be the perfect situation

tomorrow.

When the Opposition gets up and they say they should be here today supporting

government, well I say Mr. Speaker, here we are tomorrow, we are about to open

negotiations and the Opposition are being very political. I mean, that is what

they are here to do, to be very, very political.

I wonder sometimes, Mr. Speaker, if they hope there is never a deal done, as

was the line in Question Period today about the Lower Churchill. I am not

convinced they want that to happen. You never know what you are going to get

from the Official Opposition, I say, Mr. Speaker.

One point that the Leader of the Opposition pointed out today, she claimed

that she has been out talking to nurses - no different than any of us certainly

and she said that every second one was leaving the Province. Every second

nurse was leaving the Province and moving away.

Mr. Speaker, an interesting statistic came to mind that was shared with me in

the last couple of weeks, and that was one from 2008. In 2008, Mr. Speaker, 81

per cent of our graduates stayed in Newfoundland and Labrador. That is 81 per

cent. The Leader of the Opposition would lead you to believe that 50 per cent of

them are leaving. Every second one is leaving this Province.

Mr. Speaker, we are going to have, obviously, people who move out of the

Province for a variety of reasons. I am sure some for bigger money, whether it

be in the U.S. market or whatever the case may be, or others because of leaving

with spouses, whatever the case may be, but to leave an impression here in this

House, and to the general public, that half of the nurses that are graduating

from our programs in the Province are leaving is absolutely untrue, Mr. Speaker.

As a matter of fact, the statistics say different and prove different. Mr.

Speaker, 81 per cent, in 2008, decided to stay right here in this Province, and

that says a lot.

She goes on to say that maybe we should not be out recruiting in Atlantic

Canada because they are in a nursing shortage too. She goes on to say here we

are out recruiting in places where there are nursing shortages. I am sure the

hon. Leader of the Opposition has to realize this: there is not only a shortage

of nurses in Newfoundland and Labrador. There is a shortage in all of Atlantic

Canada. There is a shortage throughout the country. I believe it is Alberta that

has the highest wages in Canada for nurses, for RNs, and they are short nurses.

There is a shortage in the United States of America. Naturally, wherever we go -

we cannot sit home on our laurels - wherever we go to recruit nurses, there is

going to be a nurse shortage. Obviously, people come to our Province to try to

recruit them as well, so we have to be proactive. We cannot sit down and say we

are not going somewhere because there is currently a shortage of nurses. Part of

recruiting and I guess retaining nurses here in this Province is that you have

to be out there and you have be proactive, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, one point that the Minister of Health and Community Services

made - I thought it was a significant point and one that I wanted to reiterate -

was that back when the now adviser to the Leader of the Opposition was the

Minister of Health, they boasted of a $20 million increase in spending in

operations. Now, Mr. Speaker, we are over a $200 million increase this year.

That will just give you a snapshot of what this government thinks of health

care, and what it does for health care throughout this Province. We are actually

after taking the provincial Budget from $1.6 million in 2003 to now almost $2.6

billion, so we have increased it almost by a billion dollars since taking office

in 2003. That is certainly a significant commitment from this party with health

care and certainly nurses as well.

Mr. Speaker, sometimes you read some interesting articles in this business,

and I had the opportunity to read one in The Telegram a few months back,

a number of months back, and some of the things that were talked about in the

nursing profession I thought were worthy of note. Just to again counteract the

Opposition's thing that we are doing nothing, and there is nothing happening

here in this Province, and the sky is falling, I just want to lay out some of

the things that we are doing, and some of the comments that have been made about

the things that we are doing, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I would just like to point out that 221 nurses graduated from

the Province's nursing schools in 2007, an increase of 17.6 per cent from

2006. So, here we are recruiting more nurses within our Province than the

previous year. Mr. Speaker, nationwide that year, throughout the whole country,

the best they did was a 12.7 per cent increase. So, Mr. Speaker, here we are,

out ahead of the national average in nurse recruitment.

To that point, I have a comment that I would like to share, and the comment

goes: We fared quite well compared to other provinces, says Jim Feltham,

president of the Association of Registered Nurses of Newfoundland and Labrador.

So, Mr. Speaker, even in some corners of the nursing profession they realize how

hard we are working. Do we have work to do? Absolutely, Mr. Speaker, but we are

certainly out there, we are certainly on the ball, we are certainly trying our

best, and we are going to keep trying our best as well.

Mr. Speaker, to the credit of the nursing profession as well - and I have to

point this out was another point that was made by an Ellen Rukholm. She

compliments the nurses in this Province in the way they work together throughout

the hospitals and throughout the schools, and I certainly take my hat off to

nurses who are actually out there as well doing what they can for recruitment in

this Province.

Mr. Speaker, another point that I would like to make, this is a quote that

came from the Canadian Association of Schools of Nursing, and her name is

Lynnette Stamler. Mr. Speaker, last year the Province admitted 262 students to

nursing schools, only slightly more than it graduated. Her quote is this, Mr.

Speaker: I think it is very admirable that Newfoundland manages to keep the

number they admit and the number they graduate as close as they do to the number

they graduate. Mr. Speaker, it is certainly a significant piece of work.

Like I have said in the past, we are out there; we are being proactive. If

you listen to the Opposition, you would believe certainly that we are doing

nothing on this. Nothing, again, could be further from the truth.

I would just like to point out a couple of things that we have done over the

last couple of years when it comes to new graduates, better recruitment and that

sort of thing, Mr. Speaker. In Budget 2008 we increased the number of seats

funded the number of seats by thirty-six over the last couple of years to

bring the numbers from 255 to 291 in our schools this year. Now, Mr. Speaker, we

had a retention rate of one of the best in the country in 2008 at 81 per cent.

Certainly, after this contract, hopefully we will be in a better position to

retain even higher than the 81 per cent that we currently do.

As well, Mr. Speaker, $1 million is to be cost-shared with regional health

authorities to support an eight-week orientation program for new nursing

graduates in front line practice. In addition, a provincial mentoring program is

in place to further support integration of new graduates in practice. Mr.

Speaker, there is another point, something else that we are doing to recruit and

retain nurses in this Province. Like I say, Mr. Speaker, this is a government

who is open to new ideas, innovative ideas, and will do what we can within our

means to recruit and retain nurses in this Province.

As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, the 2008 Budget included $2.1 million to

finance new recruitment incentives. These include, Mr. Speaker: 2,500 bursaries

for third- and fourth-year nursing students who enter into one-year

return-for-service agreements. Mr. Speaker, those bursaries are also available

for fast-track students as well. A grant program to assist students with some

clinical courses, relocation allowances averaging $5,000 to cover 50 per cent of

moving costs, to a maximum of $10,000, and a signing bonus of $3,000 for

difficult to fill positions. I guess, where we live in such a vast geography

here in this Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, naturally it is not very

easy, on occasion, to get professionals to go to remote areas. So, Mr. Speaker,

that was the idea of that $3,000: to help recruit professionals, like nurses, to

go to these remote locations.

Mr. Speaker, I mentioned earlier, certainly, that it is obvious that these

recruitment measures have to be working to some degree, when in 2008 our

retention number, the retained percentage of nurses we kept from graduating

classes, was 81 per cent. Certainly, Mr. Speaker, a significant number.

Mr. Speaker, when it comes to experienced nurse hires, that is an area, I

guess, that we have picked up in quite a bit. The hiring of 155 experienced

nurses for 2008 was certainly a positive move. Mr. Speaker, in previous years we

would normally hire fifty nurses, so when I say that we have recruited 155

experienced nurses and, of course, they are from external recruits as well, that

is certainly a very significant piece of work.

As well, Mr. Speaker, over the last couple of years we have converted a lot

of positions from casual to permanent. I believe the Minister of Health referred

to that earlier, a significant number. As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, in the

last two years we have converted 200 RN positions from casual to permanent and I

believe - and I stand to be corrected but I know it was in excess of 300 that

actually did not want to move from casual to permanent. I guess they have a

variety of reasons for that. I am sure they are very well-founded reasons,

whether they have young families that they want to spend more time with, or

whatever the case may be, so there was an awful willingness by this government

to go out and make casual nurses into full-time permanent positions, Mr.

Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, just to add to that, I just want to say, again to dispel some of

the myths that the Opposition put out there, we have actually created 200 new

nursing positions since 2005, a significant piece of work. Besides that, we are

having different things like professional development, one of the points that we

talk about quite a bit. Recently, I think it was last year, I attended, on

behalf of the minister, a leadership conference that was well attended. Of

course, we all recognize that nursing leadership has a significant impact on

patient outcomes and so on.

As well, Mr. Speaker, just last week there was a human resources forum that

had 140 participants. I guess that was designed for productive dialogue on

nursing human resource issues and challenges among key health system partners.

Mr. Speaker, some of the themes of that conference that I think are worthy of

note were quality workplaces, effective utilization of nursing, human resources

and models of clinical nursing practice.

So, Mr. Speaker, we are out there. We are being proactive as a government.

The nurses are being very proactive as well and taking

part in some of the

things that we have set out, and I certainly take my hat off to them. Like I

said, if I could leave with one message today it is that we are into a situation

in this Province that is no different throughout the country and throughout the

world. What we are trying to do is to recruit and retain nurses within the best

of our ability. That is something that I, as an MHA, wish for. I know that it is

something that the Minister of Finance certainly hopes for, and the Minister of

Health, and I know our whole government is hoping to achieve that.

Mr. Speaker, without any further ado, I will take my seat and suggest that

after the sun sets tomorrow, hopefully, we will have some real good news and

that negotiations will come to an exciting and fulfilling conclusion in the

coming days.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I appreciate an opportunity to have a few words concerning this private

member's resolution today. It is very timely, in fact, given that the nurses

and government are consensually going back to the bargaining table tomorrow

morning, April 2, and that is a good thing to see.

This, of course, is a very serious issue and it is of great concern to

everybody in this Province, I am sure, not only to nurses but government takes

it very seriously as well, as does everybody who might be impacted should

something happen or transpire throughout the negotiations that might lead to a

strike. That is why it is of concern here.

I guess the reason the Opposition brought forward this particular motion, as

I understand it, brought forward by the Leader of the Opposition, was because of

what happened and transpired in the Budget Speech of the Finance Minister last

Thursday. It seemed again to be another, shall we say, bit of fuel on the fire

that might aggravate circumstances as we approach tomorrow. That is what I

understand is the background to why a resolution was brought forward today.

We all have a vested interest here everybody. Government has, the

Opposition has, everybody in the Province has, and the nurses have a vested

interest in seeing that what can be done here to resolve this situation is done.

We all might have to - whether nurses have to change and modify their position,

and government might have to modify their position, that is understandable. That

is the whole purpose of the collective bargaining process.

The end result, and what we are calling for here in a resolution today, is

pretty simple. It is not saying don't give the nurses anything. It is not

saying disagree with the nurses on everything. It is not saying don't

negotiate tough. You should negotiate tough. Because, as the President of

Treasury Board, the Minister of Finance also represents everybody in this

Province, and every tax dollar that we spend, and he has the responsibility to

see that he represents everybody when it comes to the expenditure of those

monies, not just the nurses, so he has a big responsibility heading into this.

All the resolution calls for is the removal of the preconditions. That is all it

says. It doesn't say don't be a hard, tough bargainer. It says: Will you

please remove the preconditions?

I noticed, after I reviewed Hansard from Monday past - maybe it is not of any

consequence now because maybe it has, in fact, been removed - maybe the

preconditions have been removed. The reason I say that is because of the Premier's

comments in answer to a question during Question Period on Monday. Of course,

the notice had been given as to what the resolution would be. The Premier

indicated - and I will refer to that - the Premier said, on March 30 on page 65

of Hansard, and I quote, "Now when it comes to preconditions, I want to

make it very clear, that what was laid out were the conditions for that

particular offer. All conditions are open. If they want to come in on Thursday

and they want to negotiate anything if they wanted, for example, Mr.

Speaker, take the template and say: No, we are not going to take the 21 per

cent, we are going to take the federal government offer of 6 per cent. So we

will trade that off against maybe a two-year agreement but, there are

tradeoffs in a negotiation. We are not saying anything is cast in stone."

I take that to be a pretty clear statement from the Premier that the

preconditions are not there as a starting point, as was stated by the Minister

of Finance in his statement in the midst of the Budget Speech last Thursday.

I think that is pretty clear. It comes down again to: What is the atmosphere

and what is the level of trust that is going to exist when the parties go into

the bargaining room tomorrow? Of course, you have to look back and see what has

transpired in the past, because where they go tomorrow is going to be impacted

based upon the circumstances from which they came.

There are a lot of issues involved here. It is not just about money.

Everybody has their concerns here. Part of it is the money issue, part of it is

retention issues, part of it is recruitment issues, and part of it is nurse

shortage issues. That is all stuff that ought to and will be, no doubt,

discussed and be on the table, according to what the Premier said at least: that

there is nothing cast in stone. Let's go in there with an open mind and see

where we can go with this.

That is his written statement from Hansard as of Monday. Maybe the vote on

the thing here is not even needed in terms of preconditions, because maybe the

Premier has already made it known in his answer that the preconditions are not

necessarily on the table in any case and let's approach this with an open

mind.

Of course, what brought us to this, there are certain facts that exist here

that cannot be ignored as to when we are going in there tomorrow. These are

things that have happened. We know, for example, as a fact now that the nurses

have a strike mandate. That cannot be changed. I will just review the

circumstances that have led us to where we are today, some idea of the timelines

that have brought us to where we are and I suggest that the government has

not put itself in a very good light, in going in. Whether we agree or disagree

with the nurses, I submit that it was the government who has tainted the water

in the well here, based upon their actions over the past number of months, and I

will review those circumstances as to why I make that submission.

First of all, there was a change of ministers, going back many, many months.

The current Minister of Justice was the former Minister of Finance. I do not

think there is any doubt in anybody's mind in this Province that there was a

level of acceptance, credibility, respect, that the former Minister of Finance

was easy to talk with, fair minded and so on, and would, everybody thought, have

the conduct of these negotiations, but that did not happen.

The Premier chose to move the Minister of Finance out, the former minister,

and to bring in a new minister, the current minister that we have. I think that

was the first start when we stepped onto a slippery slope, because the nurses

saw that as a first step towards going from a what should I say? - going

from a hush puppy type person who was contemplative and negotiable, to creating

a pit-bull type of scenario. It is saying right up front, the Premier did with

that motion: Don't fool with us. You are in for a battle. I think that was the

clear message, unequivocal message that was sent. No question about it.

So, that is what happened when the Cabinet shuffle took place. Now I

understand the former minister was not too pleased with that either, but that is

another story, the fact that he got moved, but that is another story.

To continue on with the timelines; once the new minister was in place here,

in September or just to go back here, the parties first went to the table

and they started conciliation with a conciliator, and that is a person who comes

from HRL&E department of the government. The minister provides a conciliator

when the parties ask for one. That was done back last spring. Those talks lasted

with the conciliator all of a few days, and things went off the rails. That was

back in the spring. No, excuse me, there was a conciliator brought in. He came

in September and things went off the rails. Talks broke down between the nurses

and government in September.

On November 25, 2008, the Premier warned that the government's wage offer

to the public sector unions could get smaller if the Province's financial

picture got any worse. Another little volley that things are not going to go

well; send a message across their bow, smarten up, take the offer that is on the

table or perhaps you might not be getting what everybody else accepted, or CUPE

accepted back in the spring last year, which was the 8-4-4-4 package, the

so-called template. That was the message loud and clear. Take the template.

There is nothing else. We are not changing it.

That was followed up on December 9, 2008 when the current Minister of Finance

said during the Province's economic update, he said: the wage offer of the 20

per cent, the 8-4-4-4, could not be guaranteed beyond December 31, last year.

The Premier's message of November 25 was now being strengthened again and

restated by the Minister of Finance on December 9. Of course, December 31 came

and went.

On January 23 of this year the nurses decided they were going to start their

strike vote. On January 23, in the late afternoon I believe it was of that very

same day that the nurses said they were starting their strike vote, the

government said in fact, the Minister of Finance said when he was questioned

by the media: What might be some of your options and would you? No question

about it, if they go on strike, if they take a strike vote and go on strike,

yes, we will legislate them back to work. If forced to, we will legislate the

nurses back. That was on the afternoon of January 23.

Then, over the next few days, there were some concerns raised because the

nurses apparently came across some jurisprudence from out in B.C and said: Just

a minute, maybe the government cannot legislate us back to work. We, in fact,

are going to challenge their right to legislate us back to work now. We think we

are entitled to binding arbitration. So that issue was floating around for a few

days.

Then, on January 28, the government did indeed yank its offer off the table.

They said we are not leaving the template there now, what we offered you, the

same as everybody else. That was done on January 28. The Premier said at that

time, on that day, that the four-year wage template that had been accepted by

most public servants was no longer available to groups who had yet to sign.

In fact, we had a reaction at that time from the current head of the nurses'

union as well. She felt, of course, that it was similar to being bullied, I

believe were her words, and politicians trying to intimidate her and intimidate

her members into getting into a contract. So all this stress and fuss is

building up now, not at a bargaining table, not behind closed doors, this is

public negotiations from the Minister of Finance and the Premier, shooting this

stuff across the bow.

On February 9, a few days later, the nurses did indeed start to take a strike

vote. We know that the Premier and the minister were saying, whoa, whoa, stop

that, you should not do that. We do not need to take a strike vote. Why don't

you call that off and we can get down to the bargaining and start all over

again, start the process. Nurses said, no, just a minute, we are going to go

through with this. We had this planned. We need to explain to our membership

where we are going, so we are going to take the five weeks that is necessary to

do that and go around the Province. They have done that and they do, in fact,

have their strike vote. I think it is like 89.7 per cent, all told, from the

various sectors around the Province.

It is interesting to note, as well, that on March 12 - and this might not be

something that is in the public domain too much - the nurses' union asked the

government, through the Minister of HRLE, can we have a third party and go back

to the table again? Lets go back, lets start the wheel again. This was the

nurses, now, asking government. Can we go back to the table, take a third party

so we can start in good faith again, and we can start these negotiations again

with a level of trust. Now, that was even though the nurses' strike vote was

still being taken. They still, in my view, showed some good faith and said, let's

go back to the table again with an independent third party. That was on the

twelfth of March.

On the twenty-third of March or the twenty-fourth, not exactly sure of the

right day but it was the twenty-third or twenty-fourth of March, the Minister of

Human Resources said, no, we are not going to give you an independent third

party. You had a conciliator before, we have faith in our conciliators, we do

not want to appoint anybody else, and we are going to deny your request. Again,

another little bit of fly in the ointment here to keep things stressed out.

Then, of course, we had the bombshell from the minister in his Budget, that

you can do this. His comments were, this is contingent, of course, on the union's

acceptance of a collective agreement including government's proposals on

issues such as term of contract, extended earnings loss, market adjustment

letter, classification, and MOU. All the pre-conditions were put back in. So,

again the nurses are saying, whoa, just a minute. You took that off the table

and here you are now you are sticking them back in again. The government's

actions have been combative the whole way. You are either going to put it on or

you are not going to put it on. By the way, it is interesting to note that

contrary to the Premier saying he was not going to change the template, he has

done exactly that, when the minister said we will knock off the two bottom steps

and give you a top one, which the minister and the Premier confirm is equal to

another $16 million, $17 million. This government is negotiating in public. They

are saying they are not going to change the template. They changed the template,

they put the conditions in, they take the conditions out, all in the public

forum, when it ought to be done behind closed doors, I would suggest, for the

interest of everybody here. There is no need of playing one group against the

other.

The purpose of our resolution is to merely suggest we might start these

negotiations off tomorrow in good faith. If we get confirmation say: Look the

conditions are off, they are not there, now let's go on behind closed doors.

If you have to put on your boxing gloves behind closed doors, the two parties,

so be it. That is where it ought to be done. When it is done, of course, we, as

a Province, will have to live with the decision that comes out of it. No prob