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April 20, 2016

41st Parliament, 1st Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2016-Apr-20 (PDF)

L164 - Wed 20 Apr 2016 / Mer 20 avr 2016

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Wednesday 20 April 2016 Mercredi 20 avril 2016

Orders of the Day

Ontario Retirement Pension Plan Act (Strengthening Retirement Security for Ontarians), 2016 / Loi de 2016 sur le Régime de retraite de la province de l’Ontario (sécuriser la retraite en Ontario)

Introduction of Visitors

Peter Kormos

Oral Questions

Fundraising

Health care funding

Electoral reform

Electoral reform

Health care funding

Access to information

Ontario budget

Assistive devices

Hydro rates

Pregnancy and infant loss

Horse racing industry

Autism treatment

Renewable energy

Rare diseases

Members’ Statements

Duncan Hawthorne

Northern Ontario

Public transit

Wind turbines

Gasoline prices

Durham College

Darcy McKeough

Community safety

Ordre de la Pléiade

Introduction of Bills

Commission of Inquiry into Accessible Parking in Municipalities Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 concernant la commission d’enquête sur le stationnement accessible dans les municipalités

Time to Care Act (Long-Term Care Homes Amendment, Minimum Standard of Daily Care), 2016 / Loi de 2016 sur le temps alloué aux soins (modifiant la

Loi sur les foyers de soins de longue durée et prévoyant une norme minimale en matière de soins quotidiens)

Eating Disorders Awareness Week Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 sur la Semaine de la sensibilisation aux troubles de l’alimentation

Safe Texting Zones Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 sur l’aménagement de haltes texto sécuritaires

Motions

Private members’ public business

Petitions

Hospital funding

Employment standards

Water fluoridation

Autism treatment

Ontario Municipal Board

Transports en commun

Health care funding

Autism treatment

Caregivers

Services for the developmentally disabled

Cardiac care

Special-needs students

Health care

Orders of the Day

Time allocation

Alternative Financial Services Statute Law Amendment Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 modifiant des lois concernant les services financiers de rechange

The House met at 0900.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Good morning. Please join me in prayer.

Prayers.

Orders of the Day

Ontario Retirement Pension Plan Act (Strengthening Retirement Security for Ontarians), 2016 / Loi de 2016 sur le Régime de retraite de la province de l’Ontario (sécuriser la retraite en Ontario)

Mr. Bradley, on behalf of Ms. Hunter, moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill 186,

An Act to establish the Ontario Retirement Pension Plan / Projet de loi 186, Loi établissant le Régime de retraite de la province de l’Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Mr. Bradley.

Hon. James J. Bradley: I would like to thank you very much. I will see that this begins to proceed. This is a very significant bill, of course. It’s a bill which the government has seen as a centerpiece of the platform that it brought forward and, since that period of time, it has been working diligently to ensure that the Ontario Retirement Pension Plan is implemented in the most appropriate way.

Mr. Speaker, I can tell you that, indeed, the person who is responsible for this, Mitzie Hunter, as we know her as a friend in this House, is very knowledgeable of all the intricacies of this bill and will be revealing those intricacies. I can say, however, that it is something that we placed before the electorate as a government.

I will be sharing my time with Ms. Hunter—

Mr. Steve Clark: A significant amount of time.

Hon. James J. Bradley: —a significant amount of the time with Ms. Hunter.

This was developed, as she will no doubt tell you, after very wide consultation from the beginning and, all along the way, modifications were made according to the input which was received from a variety of sources. So to best describe and expand upon what I consider to be the benefits of this bill to the people of the province of Ontario, I’ll yield the floor at the present time to the Associate Minister of Finance.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): I must comment: The minister’s ragging of the puck was excellent.

The Associate Minister of Finance.

Hon. Mitzie Hunter: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m proud to have the opportunity to rise in the House today to speak about Bill 186, the Ontario Retirement Pension Plan Act (Strengthening Retirement Security for Ontarians), 2016, which I introduced last week. The introduction of this bill marks an important milestone for our government. I want to thank the staff from the Ministry of Finance and, specifically, the Ontario Retirement Pension Plan Implementation Secretariat for the tremendous work that they have done to make the ORPP a reality.

I also want to thank the expert advisers who have assisted us as we developed this plan, specifically Michael Nobrega, former CEO of OMERS; David Dodge, former governor of the Bank of Canada; members of our technical advisory group on retirement security; and members of our business implementation advisory group.

Bill 186 brings us one step closer to achieving our goal that all eligible Ontarians are part of the ORPP or a comparable plan by 2020. Premier Wynne and this government have shown bold leadership to ensure that the people of this province retire with financial security. When the Premier appointed me Associate Minister of Finance responsible for the ORPP, she gave me a very clear mandate to strengthen retirement security for Ontarians. That’s exactly what this legislation will help achieve.

Mr. Speaker, we know that we have a retirement savings problem in this country and in this province. Study after study shows that too many Ontarians are not saving enough for retirement. Two thirds of Ontario’s workers do not participate in a workplace pension plan. That’s over four million people. The proportion is even higher among young workers aged 25 to 34, where about 75% do not participate in a workplace pension plan. Combine that with longer lifespans, lower personal savings and an average CPP benefit of just over $6,900 per year, and the result is a growing gap between what Ontarians need to save for a secure retirement and what they will actually have.

Without immediate action, many of today’s workers will likely see a drop in their standard of living in retirement. A future generation of seniors retiring with inadequate savings would place pressure on younger workers to support health care and other public services that retirees need. That’s not good for people, that’s not good for business and that’s not good for the economy.

In the face of this pressing retirement savings challenge, our government is moving forward with the Ontario Retirement Pension Plan. The ORPP will help shrink the retirement savings gap by providing Ontario workers with a predictable stream of income, paid for life. If passed, Bill 186 would enshrine the government’s announced key design details for the Ontario Retirement Pension Plan in legislation. This would include details on the requirements for participation and contributions to the ORPP, benefit types, and rules for compliance and enforcement.

For example, as we have previously outlined, employers and employees will make equal contributions, ensuring fairness. The ORPP will aim to replace 15% of an individual’s pre-retirement earnings, up to $90,000. Together with CPP, this will create a strong retirement income floor that people can rely on. Mr. Speaker, I want to emphasize again that these benefits will be indexed to inflation.

The sustainability of the ORPP is critical to our government. Ontario has some of the strongest public sector pension plans in the world. As we’ve developed the ORPP, we’ve leveraged the expertise that these internationally recognized plans offer and modeled the ORPP on the best practices they provide to ensure that the ORPP is among the best-performing plans and is sustainable for generations to come. Accordingly, the bill also includes clear rules related to plan funding to ensure that the ORPP is sustainable.

In designing the ORPP, our government engaged with thousands of Ontarians. Mr. Speaker, last year I led an extensive consultation on key design features of the plan. I travelled to over 10 communities across the province and received over 1,000 written submissions. I heard from Ontarians in rural areas, our northern communities and our biggest cities. Through this process, I spoke with employers, associations, labour groups, pension experts, retirees and individuals and families. What I heard from those meetings was that people are concerned about their ability to save for retirement.

They’re also concerned about the next generation. They want to know that their children and grandchildren will be able to retire securely.

What I also heard is that they want their government to show leadership on this issue. That’s why we’re moving forward with this made-in-Ontario plan. We know that the benefits of the ORPP will be far-reaching, both for individuals and for the economy. But we also know that employers and employees need time to prepare. In my consultations, what I heard from businesses is that they need time to plan and certainty. That’s exactly what this bill provides. Bill 186 is a critical step in our commitment to provide employers and employees with the clarity they need to prepare for the launch of the ORPP.

It also reinforces our commitment to begin enrolling employers in the ORPP in January 2017, with contributions starting January 1, 2018. The ORPP will improve the lives of Ontarians by ensuring that future retirees have the financial security that they deserve.

I’d like to take the opportunity to highlight some of the key features of the legislation. Eligible employees working in Ontario or paid by an Ontario employer would be required to contribute to the ORPP. Employees would contribute 1.9% of their annual earnings between a minimum threshold of $3,500 and a maximum earnings threshold of $90,000, and their employer would match that contribution. This would apply to employees between the ages of 18 and 70 who are not members of a comparable workplace plan.

In designing the ORPP, we heard from many employers about the generous workplace pension plans that they offer their employees. In many cases, these plans are already working well for some employees and employers. That’s why we created the concept of a comparable workplace pension plan: so that employers who offer their employees adequate pension coverage can continue to run their registered pension plans and not be required to contribute to the ORPP.

Our government’s vision of a comparable workplace pension plan is grounded in the principles of adequacy and targeted coverage. We worked with experts to ensure that our proposed thresholds for comparable plans would deliver pension coverage comparable to the ORPP. We looked at plans that had the lowest probability of individual members outliving their savings.

The ORPP would include other provisions that mirror the CPP. First Nations employers and employees on-reserve would have the option to opt in to the ORPP. At this time, self-employed individuals and federally regulated non-crown employees would not be eligible to participate. However, we have included a provision to allow them to participate in future, depending on the discussions with the federal government.

I’m happy to have the opportunity to discuss the benefits of the ORPP and what it would offer to Ontarians. The ORPP would offer two specific benefits: a pension benefit and a survivor benefit. To ensure that members retain their purchasing power in retirement, benefits would be indexed to inflation. The ORPP pension benefit would target 15% of a member’s pre-retirement earnings, up to $90,000. ORPP benefits would be earned as contributions are made, and the level of benefit would depend on the length of time an individual contributed to the plan and their salary during those years.

The ORPP pension benefit would be available to members when they turn 65. However, adjusted benefits would be available as early as 60 and as late as 70 to provide members the flexibility they need as they approach retirement.

The ORPP survivor benefit would be payable not just to a surviving spouse but also to a member’s designated beneficiary or estate if the member was single. This is an important improvement on what is provided by the CPP.

As the ORPP is designed as a pension plan under the Income Tax Act, both employer and employee contributions would be tax deductible.

Last year, our government passed the Ontario Retirement Pension Plan Administration Corporation Act, 2015, to create the ORPP Administration Corp. The ORPP AC is the independent, arm’s-length entity which will be responsible for administering the pension plan and for managing the plan’s investments for the benefit of plan beneficiaries.

The ORPP is a plan for Ontarians and the sustainability of this plan is a core principle. Our government is committed to ensuring the contributions that Ontarians make to the plan are there for them in retirement. A clear funding policy that would guide the actions of the ORPP Administration Corp. and government in the event of either a funding excess or a shortfall is a critical feature of this legislation.

Through a strong accountability and transparency framework, the board of directors and management team of the ORPP Administration Corp. will be fully accountable to plan members. In turn, the ORPP AC would hold employers to account through a compliance and enforcement framework laid out in this legislation. Compliance and enforcement measures would include education to make sure that employers understand what is required of them.

Let me be clear: ORPP contributions and revenues will not form part of the government’s consolidated revenue funds. Instead, these funds would be held in trust by the ORPP Administration Corp. for the benefit of the members of the plan.

I’ve spoken about some of the details of today’s legislation, but I’d also like to talk about the bigger picture and how the ORPP would benefit Ontario’s economy as a whole.

The Conference Board of Canada’s cost-benefit analysis of the ORPP tabled last December confirms that both the economy and Ontarians would be better off with the ORPP. In the long term, it would be expected to add billions of dollars to the economy while providing a cost-effective means of helping individuals save for retirement.

Today’s legislation is another significant step in our journey toward ensuring that by 2020 all eligible Ontario workers would be covered by a comparable workplace plan or the ORPP.

Previous governments in Canada and Ontario have taken courageous steps to build a strong retirement benefit foundation through the Canada Pension Plan, Old Age Security, the Guaranteed Income Supplement and the Ontario Guaranteed Annual Income System, or GAINS.

Today, the system needs to be improved for future generations. The province has long been a champion of strengthening the retirement income security system and is pleased that the federal government shares this commitment. Even as we introduce legislation on the ORPP, we are continuing to work collaboratively with the federal government, the provinces and territories to make progress on a CPP enhancement that addresses the needs of future retirees.

But we also know that we need to make progress now to ensure that Ontarians can achieve the retirement security they deserve.

Last week, I was at Studio [Y] in Toronto to announce the introduction of this bill. Studio [Y] is a program to support young innovators. They are smart, diverse, big-thinking problem solvers.

I met one young person who builds robots to help clean up the shorelines in places where humans cannot go.

I met another who has started a social enterprise that supports youth in creating art and music, promoting resilience in their lives and the lives of others.

I met another young innovator whose passion is to advise and support students and youth groups to create real, tangible outcomes.

All of these young people are poised and ready to do amazing things in this world and will have long and impactful careers. They are the leaders of today and tomorrow. They’ll be innovating and flourishing in a different kind of economy from the one that their parents and grandparents worked in, one where there are fewer traditional workplace pension plans. It’s a world where people are living longer and need their savings to go further in retirement. That’s exactly why we are moving forward with this important piece of legislation.

It is critical for the future well-being of Ontarians and our economy that we take action now to ensure that future retirees, like the young people I met last week, can achieve financial security in retirement regardless of where their careers take them.

Mr. Speaker, the ORPP is an integral part of our government’s economic plan to build Ontario up and to deliver on its number one priority: to grow Ontario’s economy and create jobs. Passing the Ontario Retirement Pension Plan Act (Strengthening Retirement Security for Ontarians), 2016, is an important step in modernizing the retirement income system in our province. I’m asking the members of this assembly to support this very important legislation. Bill 186 will ensure for future generations of retirees and for all working Ontarians that they have the retirement security they need.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Questions and comments?

Mr. Victor Fedeli: I appreciate the opportunity to speak for two minutes.

I was quite shocked at the minister bringing up the Conference Board study. She said that Ontario would be better off with the ORPP, according to the Conference Board. Let me give you the details, Speaker, of exactly what the Conference Board said. The cost-benefit analysis from the Conference Board of Canada, commissioned by the Ministry of Finance, admits that it will take 20 years before the economy recovers from the shock of the ORPP. They calculate—this is the Conference Board; the ministry’s own study—that job losses will peak at 23,000 in 2023.

Real disposable income and consumption spending will remain lower until 2040. This will lead to “a fall in ... private investment that peaks”—the loss peaks—“at $939 million in 2024.” Finally, when does the report say that the good news the minister said is coming will kick in? Well, that will be 2093, 75 years from now. That’s the report.

So when she says that Ontario would be better off with the ORPP, she may be correct if anybody can forecast that far—they can’t forecast to the end of the week, let alone a three-year forecast. They are telling us that 75 years from now Ontario will be better off with the ORPP. So they are obviously not listening to their own experts, their own study from the Conference Board that tells them what a disaster this is.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Questions and comments?

Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong: The Associate Minister of Finance didn’t take as much time as I thought she may have used. It would have been nice to hear a really detailed analysis of her bill. This is a bill that has been in the works for quite a while, and people want to know the ins and outs of this bill after the government has, of course, proposed it.

Ontarians are under pressure for retirement funds; we know that. It’s a challenge for working people today to actually save for their retirement. I can’t remember who previously said—I think it was this minister, perhaps—that the workforce is changing and becoming a contemporary, mobile workforce. That is a fancy phrase describing precarious employment. People are working jobs that are contract jobs or working two part-time jobs, and they don’t have the opportunity to save for retirement because they’re just living paycheque to paycheque.

An Ontario retirement plan is a good idea, but we really need to make sure that it is going to pay off in the end. Like I said, it would have been helpful if the Associate Minister of Finance had taken up her full hour and really gotten into the crux of this bill. This is the opportunity that we have to debate bills and inform the public and critique. We’re here to critique what’s there. I look forward to future debate. I hope this government isn’t going to call any time allocation on this bill; it has been a history of theirs, and I think that does a disservice to the House.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): The member from Eglinton–Lawrence.

Mr. Mike Colle: As you know, Speaker, the member from Scarborough–Guildwood, the Associate Minister of Finance, is very passionate about helping working people who, after working their whole life, find that they can’t make ends meet because they don’t have a pension. That’s who is important here. That’s why this piece of legislation is very important.

Interjections.

Mr. Mike Colle: Will you stop, please? I’m trying to speak to the Speaker.

I want to talk about Etta in my riding, who is 70 years of age. She worked her whole life at a small firm, doing bookkeeping and accounting. She bought a little house. At 70 years of age, this hard-working woman can’t make ends meet. She works as a crossing guard to bring in a little bit of money. She also has a little Avon business, trying to make ends meet. About a month ago, she said to me, “Mike, I’m having so much trouble. I’m just wondering, am I still eligible to go to the food bank?” This is disgraceful.

The Conservatives don’t care about people like Etta. They care about the big corporations. But the minister—

Interjections.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Stop the clock.

He’s speaking for you. I hear more heckling from the government side than from the opposition side—so maybe a little respect for your own people speaking.

Continue.

Mr. Mike Colle: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

There are hundreds of thousands of Ettas out there who did all the right things. They worked hard, saved hard, bought a little house. This is why this bill is very important. We’ve got to think of the hard-working Ontarians who need a little bit of money to pay the bills after they’ve worked their whole life. Right now they don’t have that.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): The member from Prince Edward–Hastings.

Mr. Todd Smith: The point is, Etta would never be eligible for the ORPP.

The member from Nipissing, in his two-minute rebuttal to the associate minister’s remarks on the ORPP, spelled it out very effectively.

We’re going to hear for 45 minutes from our critic on the ORPP, the member from York–Simcoe, exactly how damaging the ORPP is actually going to be for the province of Ontario.

I had an opportunity a couple of weeks ago to deliver a speech to my chamber of commerce in Belleville. The chamber of commerce is not supportive at all of the ORPP—as is the Ontario chamber of commerce. During my remarks at the chamber breakfast—

Interjections.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Stop the clock.

Didn’t I just say this? Your own guy is speaking, and you’re yelling across the floor at each other—especially the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Sport. That’s the second time; one more, you’ll get a warning.

Go ahead.

Mr. Todd Smith: During my remarks, I had the opportunity to talk about, how, for every problem or issue that the province is facing, there’s a Liberal solution and there’s a Conservative solution. The Liberal solution, time and time again, is to create bigger government, more bureaucracy, and that’s what we’re going to see with the ORPP. The Conservative solution is smaller government, more education for the people and putting more money back in their pockets so they can make their own decisions on how they’re going to plan for their own retirement.

The government is ignoring its own experts when they write in their cost-benefit analysis that this is going to have a negative impact on the province of Ontario for years and years to come, costing thousands and thousands of jobs here.

The thing that baffles me about this more than anything is the fact that the Premier stated over and over and over again that if she had a willing partner, if she had a friend in Ottawa, the ORPP would be unnecessary. Well, she’s got her friend with his sunny days in Ottawa, but they’re marching ahead with the ORPP anyway, in spite of the fact that they know it’s going to cause damage to the province of Ontario and not solve the problems that we’re facing in Ontario today.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Associate Minister of Finance: two minutes.

Hon. Mitzie Hunter: I want to thank the member from Prince Edward–Hastings, the member from Nipissing, the member from London–Fanshawe and my colleague the member from Eglinton–Lawrence.

I believe that the member from Eglinton–Lawrence’s story of Etta really underscores the value and importance of a pension—that people having worked a lifetime in this province deserve to retire with dignity and with the security that a pension provides.

We know that CPP alone is not enough. We know that the average in Ontario is $7,000. That’s simply not enough for people to live on. Our plan of building retirement security sets a goal that by 2020, every working Ontarian would either be in a comparable plan or in the ORPP. That will ensure that when people retire, they have the adequate income.

I want to address the member from Nipissing, who talked about the impact on Ontario’s economy. Everyone knows that when people retire, if they have adequate income, they will continue to spend into Ontario’s economy, and that is good for business, that’s good for the individual and that’s good for our economy as a whole. If they do not have adequate income, that could slow consumption. If consumption slows, that could put pressure on publicly funded programs at a time when we can least afford it.

Mr. Speaker, this is the responsible thing for us to do: to proceed with our plans of implementing the ORPP. We will, of course, continue to work with our federal partners. We’re actually working in collaboration on data sharing, on registering the plan, and we’re looking into the administration as well.

But there is one very important line in Bill 186, the Ontario Retirement Pension Plan Act, 2016. It is

section 23. It entitles members of the plan to a pension for life. That’s why we’re moving forward, Mr. Speaker. We have that commitment to Ontarians.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Further debate?

Mrs. Julia Munro: It is certainly an opportunity I welcome to be able to take a few minutes and talk about the initiative by the government on an Ontario registered pension plan. In this case, we’re looking at Bill 186.

I certainly come to this conversation with some ideas that are going to be of no surprise. I have been critical of the manner in which this has been presented—the target audience, the timelines—but what I want to start with is the fact that my concerns are with what the genuine concerns that Ontarians, Ontario businesses, my caucus and I share about this proposal and its effect on the well-being of the province.

We know, through public discourse, businesses from around the province and even a Ministry of Finance document, that this proposal is truly a job killer. The ministry document states that over 50,000 jobs in Ontario will be lost, while some industries will never recover. The Canadian Federation of Independent Business forecasts the same negative impacts on our economy if the Ontario pension is installed.

One constant is that no one is saying that the pension plan will help to create jobs. Businesses in this province have been continually assaulted by this government’s increased red tape, increased operating costs in both taxes and hydro rates, along with the fear of a new payroll tax. Some of the most vulnerable businesses do not possess the financial cushion to absorb this proposal. Instead, they see a government bent on squeezing more money from them through any means necessary, including a mandatory pension.

Businesses can only pay these when they make a profit. Businesses can only hire more employees and grow if the government allows them to do so. It is no longer a secret that each and every day companies choose to pass Ontario by and find jurisdictions where growth is possible.

We all know that it’s impossible to save for retirement if you have no job. This isn’t just a message from the opposition bench. Some of the most respected institutions and some of Ontario’s largest employers have implored this government to reconsider the proposed new tax. General Motors, Ford, Canadian Tire, Walmart and Magna all worked in concert to formally let the government know the risks this plan creates. By the way, I should just emphasize that this is unprecedented, for industry leaders to come together and at the earliest stages let the government know of the risk this plan creates.

These are associations ranging from mining to hospitality, from manufacturers to farmers, all across the board, whether it be different political stripe or industry. They are all in opposition to the Liberal payroll tax. Between skyrocketing energy rates, a looming carbon tax and your payroll tax, the cost of doing business in Ontario is far too high, and it’s costing jobs. Employers in Ontario are telling the government that enough is enough.

With the Ontario government’s rejigging of the Ontario Retirement Pension Plan to slow down its implementation, we hopefully can take this as a sign that the government is slowly but surely becoming more realistic about its effect on a weak economy. However, the best course for this ill-conceived plan is to stop the whole thing in its place. The ORPP is a tax. The ORPP will apply to anyone without a defined-benefit or a sufficiently rich defined-contribution plan.

The premium will be set at 1.9% up to $90,000 of earnings for employees, matched by a similar amount paid by employers for a grand total of $3,286 per worker. A benefit equal to 15% of insurable earnings will be paid, up to $12,815 per year. It begins in 2017 for Ontario’s largest corporations, followed by a one-year delayed implementation for medium-sized firms and a two-year delay for small companies.

It seems when the Liberals try their hand at something new, they prove they can’t get anything right: green energy, SAMS—and economics is no exception. Simply, they don’t get it; perhaps they never will. The government has often fought fiercely against the idea that the ORPP is a tax, meanwhile disguising it as a way to help people save. I might just add parenthetically that it’s a mandatory way of saving. This misses the fundamental point of what a tax is. The definition of tax is “a compulsory contribution to state revenue” or taxes can be defined as an involuntary fee.

The key concept in defining a tax is its compulsion, not its use. It doesn’t matter if you spend taxes on closing gas-fired power plants or health and education or fighting a war overseas. The only relevant point is that the taxpayer has no choice but to pay; it is mandatory.

For determining if the ORPP is a tax, all that counts is that participation is obligatory. Taxes don’t just transfer money from people to government but are the obligatory removal of an individual’s freedom to spend that money as they wish. Saying that ORPP contributions are helping Ontarians to save is irrelevant and unproven, since it is quite likely people simply will reduce other saving methods to compensate. If Ontario wants to set up a voluntary pension plan to encourage more saving, that would be a different matter, but the ORPP is compulsory and therefore properly classified as a tax.

The same principle about what a tax is applies to the Ontario health premium, one of the first measures introduced by the Liberal government in 2004, which broke its election promise not to raise taxes. Calling it a premium instead of a tax may make it sound like you’re paying for an admission to a select club, but all that matters is its compulsion, as goes for the cap-and-trade pricing system, which is just a tax on carbon emissions. Relabeling taxes might be good public relations, but it is bad classification taxonomy.

Not calling it a tax encourages governments to engage in the fiction of having dedicated levies to fund every type of expenditure, from bridges to roads to debt service, without the burden of a tax. It seems as if the Liberals would like to live in a world where the taxes have been replaced by a slew of contributions, premiums, levies and user fees, every bit as onerous but without the distasteful label of “taxes.”

It may come as no surprise that the Liberals are not familiar with the term they know so well, seeing how the Liberal government has introduced so many new ones or raised the rate on others, including the ORPP contributions, the harmonized sales tax, higher personal income tax, the health care levy, a multitude of environmental levies and the routine punishment of beer, tobacco and fuel taxes favoured by cash-strapped governments everywhere. Perhaps not understanding what a tax fundamentally represents and how its mandatory nature supersedes spending intent helps to explain why this administration keeps raising taxes, unaware of how they slow Ontario’s economic growth.

Any pension reform should be targeted, not unnecessarily broad-based: a balanced approach. A balanced approach will be needed to ensure that the ORPP does not undermine any existing plans and disadvantage Ontario workers and investment. The very real risk is that Ontario workers will be worse off if employers with already attractive pension plans find themselves unable to continue those plans if they are required to include the ORPP.

This job-killing payroll tax hinders the ability of the private sector to do what it does best: provide job opportunities for people and strengthen our economy to attract investment. Pension investments must be made with best intentions, toward the highest returns, free of political interference and free to invest anywhere across the world. Pension plans are supposed to be done in the best interest of pensioners and must not be restricted. The ORPP is an idea to achieve a hidden motive at a bad time. Despite what the government studies supposedly say, there’s no true need for this mandatory payroll contribution.

This is true for the following reasons. The plan is unneeded for four fifths of workers, who already have sufficient savings for adequate retirement, as shown by Statistics Canada and Mackenzie studies taking into account all forms of savings. Instead, the plan will hurt many families with new taxes as they deal with child-rearing costs and invest in housing equity, which is the most important retirement asset in later life.

There are pockets of individuals who need support, such as low-income seniors facing a poverty rate of 20%. A minority of households with modest family incomes below $60,000 do need additional support. Any pension reform should be targeted, not unnecessarily broad-based.

The plan unnecessarily extends to many upper-income households, with up to $180,000 in income when two earners retire. This is well beyond any reasonable notion of what is meant by “middle class,” since most upper-income households have the means to ensure a good standard of living.

The plan hurts the middle class, yet many middle-class individuals will bear much higher tax rates on plan benefits, especially in the $73,000-to-$90,000 range, as Old Age Security payments are clawed back. I think that needs to be repeated: The plan hurts the middle class. It’s not helping the lowest-income earners, and it also means that Old Age Security will be clawed back.

The plan provides a poor return to savings for low-income Canadians, who will be provided little personal income tax relief for contributions yet face a walloping personal tax on benefits with personal taxes and reductions in guaranteed income supplements.

The personal tax treatment of the ORPP is uncertain. If it is treated similarly to other retirement saving plans under the Income Tax Act, the ORPP will provide comparable returns to annuity plans for many middle-income households. If the pension contributions are treated similarly to Canada pension, only a tiny tax credit based on the low-income tax rate is provided as relief, making the ORPP savings a poor investment for many Ontarians.

Although it is argued by the Liberal government that the ORPP will increase savings, it is quite the contrary. There will be a significant reduction in private savings, as many US and Canadian economic studies have suggested in the past, including a recent one by well-respected economist François Vaillancourt at the Université de Montréal.

Businesses will face a new set of taxes on employees, much of it shifted back in lower wages over time. In the short run, companies facing international competition will face higher costs, along with higher Ontario energy costs, property taxes and new levies to pay for infrastructure. The latter is most critical to achieve growth in the long run, unlike the ORPP.

Ontario had better options that would have avoided many of the above issues. It could have created a voluntary pooled saving plan with automatic enrolment, similar to the Saskatchewan Pension Plan, with a better take-up rate, even with an opt-out feature. Other provinces, like British Columbia, Alberta and Quebec, also offer similar kinds of legislative frameworks for people who would be better off with this kind of a plan.

The Liberals failed at their other option, which was to push for an expansion of the CPP, which makes more sense than the ORPP. Canada pension expansion focused on those households with modest incomes—such as raising the replacement rate of working income to 35%—would perhaps, when this plan fails, be strong enough to deal with a modest expansion that would be acceptable to governments across the country.

Instead of proceeding with the ORPP, it should be killed. It’s a major mistake in policy terms.

Much has been raised about the expense to administer. There’s no question that there are some parts of the makeup of the ORPP that in fact make it more expensive to administer. When you compare the number of people paying into CPP, that’s the entire working community across the country. This one is not. It’s not even across the province.

People moving in and out of the province will have to be tracked. Comparabledefined-contribution plans will be developed by many businesses, reducing the need for the ORPP and thereby increasing per-unit administrative costs for those in the plan. Taxpayers will be on the hook for shortfalls. Someone must bear the risk with downturns in the economy.

That goes along with the Liberal government’s egregious benefits they offer to party insiders. We already know that very-well-paid individuals—the first CEO of the Ontario Retirement Pension Plan Administration Corp. earned almost half a million dollars a year for the Pan Am Games. Despite these egregious wages, we are seeing the definition played out of what the government thinks is “arm’s-length.”

The appointment of two Liberal insiders who have a track record of exorbitant salaries, cost overruns and close ties to the Liberal government does little to quell fears regarding management and the estimated $300 million a year in administrative costs surrounding the Premier’s new pension scheme.

The question of a funding shortfall: Within

section 45 of the legislation, it determines that the ORPP AC has the power to slide the contribution rate of 1.9% up or down 0.2%. Additionally, if the above measure fails to achieve the funding shortfall, the ORPP AC has the power to change the accrual rate. The accrual rate is the rate of interest that is added to the principal of a financial instrument between cash payments of that interest. For example, a six-month bond with interest payable semi-annually will accrue daily interest during the six-month term until it is paid in full on the date it becomes due.

If both measures fail, the ORPP AC will return to the government to enact its power in some means to address the funding shortfall, and that means, find more money. This leads me to question if this plan, less equipped than the CPP, will fare so much better. Shortfalls and unfunded liability are a common fear felt today. If history is the best indication of the future, I truly fear that the government’s general revenue will be faced with funding the shortfall.

Right now, Canada’s economy is growing, but it is weakened by the collapse in commodity prices and a lacklustre global economy. Outside a recession, this is the worst possible time to enact a $3.5-billion payroll tax.

Ontario, in its economic picture, is the largest subnational debtor in the entire world—just one alarming distinction. Its debt is $294 billion, or over $21,000 per capita. Net debt to GDP is up 48% in the past 10 years, to almost 40%. Last year’s interest obligations totalled $11.4 billion, about the same as the cost of community and social services. I doubt that many Ontarians realize how much they are paying just in interest on the provincial debt. It averages $840 per person every year, and it’s rising. Not surprisingly, Standard & Poor’s downgraded Ontario’s bond credit from AA- to A+, citing a very high debt burden and a very weak budgetary performance.

The timing of this ill-conceived plan further risks the fragile state of the economy. The ORPP has continually evolved as a revenue tool each and every time it looks to absorb as much money from the economy as possible.

The chamber’s latest survey shows that 44% of businesses will cut jobs or freeze hiring because of the ORPP—that’s the Ontario Chamber of Commerce, with its ability to check with its members and see how they will be responding. Obviously, cutting jobs or freezing hiring is not a positive. It certainly won’t increase the number of people able to take an ORPP.

ORPP administrative costs are expected to range between $130 and $200 per member per year. So a worker who contributes $800 per year will lose up to 25% of their contributions off the top in fees alone. That doesn’t sound like a very good return on investment to me. Ontarians won’t be saving more; they will just be losing more off their payroll stub.

The Premier has said that the mandatory Ontario plan will be good for the province, yet recent studies show that 90% of small business owners are opposed to the ORPP. An employee making $45,000 a year would pay just shy of $800 toward the ORPP, with their employer contributing an equal amount. While larger businesses may be able to absorb these added costs, smaller businesses will be forced to either reduce the size of their workforce or the hours those employees are able to work. The creation of an Ontario-only pension plan will risk any immediate and future federal government stimulus in Ontario.

I found it very helpful to examine the ORPP’s impact on different socio-economic groups. The poor will be squeezed most by a payroll tax as they struggle to make ends meet. Middle-income workers will take home fewer savings for RRSPs and TFSAs, a down payment on a home, mortgage repayment or their children’s education. Seniors will never truly draw a meaningful benefit, as we heard earlier from the member for Nipissing. First of all, they don’t have a job right now. Secondly, a pension takes about 40 years.

As for the well off, it is hardly a public policy concern if some wealthy people are less affluent in retirement, which, in any case, a provincial pension would do precious little to address.

Now let’s address the government’s core concern. First, I acknowledge a few, like the Broadbent Institute, have come to the conclusion that Canadians are approaching retirement with totally inadequate savings. However, this position seems to be an outlier. The federal Department of Finance notes, “Canadian retirees achieve relatively high levels of income in retirement.” That’s a quote from the former chief economic analyst for Stats Canada, Philip Cross. He said, “There is no crisis for the current generation of retirees.”

The Montreal Economic Institute’s Michael Kelly-Gagnon concluded that only a very small proportion of Canadians are ill prepared for retirement. The Fraser Institute points out those expanding public pensions would reduce private savings, disadvantage younger Canadians, impose a significant tax upon the middle class and be less cost-effective than private plans.

The C.D. Howe Institute pointedly wrote that “in making the case for the ORPP the province exaggerates the gap between what Canadians save and what they need to save, almost beyond recognition.” Studies after studies by multiple groups have arrived at the same notion. If this isn’t to help those without a pension plan, then what are the true motives?

It’s important to note that there are two distinct groups of employees: There are those who have some type of pension benefit, which will be put to the government’s test of an annual contribution rate of 4% for the employee and employer, respectively, totalling a yearly contribution rate of 8%, and there are those individuals who have no pension with their employer, which then both the employees and employers will be forced to contribute at an annual rate of 1.9%, respectively. This then forces the remaining pension and benefit programs either to increase current pension benefits to employees which meet the government’s

interpretation—

Interjections.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Never mind waving.

Mrs. Julia Munro: Those with no pension with their employer will now be forced to contribute, both employees and employers, at an annual rate of 1.9%, respectively. This then forces the remaining pension and benefit programs either to increase current pension benefits to employees to meet the government’s

interpretation of “comparable,” which would result in higher costs, salary freezes and layoffs, or—the cheaper and more likely option—collapse their existing plans and roll their employees into the less likely beneficial ORPP. This further makes me wonder why the government would force this on businesses and Ontarians.

In the last year, the Liberals passed Bill 56,

an act to establish the Ontario Retirement Pension Plan advisory corporation, or the ORPP AC, which is to act as the government’s neutral third-party administrator of the pension plan. However, from Bill 56, under

section 2, duties of the entity, it states: “Investing contributions: The administrative entity shall be responsible for investing the collected contributions for the benefit of the members and other beneficiaries of the Ontario Retirement Pension Plan.” Who else other than pensioners benefits from their mandatory payroll contributions?

If pensions are created for the benefit of the pensioners, an issue arises when asking who the government considers being the “other beneficiaries.” This ambiguity surrounding the wording in the legislation allows for the Liberal government’s influence and manipulation of further investments.

Recently, the government released Proposed Amendments to Regulation 909: Eliminating the 30 per cent rule for Pension Investment:

“A. Background.

“In the 2015 Ontario Economic Outlook and Fiscal Review, the province announced its intention to eliminate the ’30 per cent pension investment rule.’”

The Liberal government was recently caught in an underhanded move having to have some amendments considered to regulation 909.

The 30% rule is one of the most quantitative limits contained in the federal pension investment rules which Ontario incorporates by reference. This rule in subsection 11(1) of

schedule 3 of the federal Pension Benefits Standards Regulations states that “the administrator of a plan shall not, directly or indirectly, invest the moneys of the plan in the securities of a corporation to which are attached more than 30 per cent of the votes that may be cast to elect the directors of the corporation.”

The federal pension investment rules currently have exemptions from the 30% rule for certain corporations—real estate, resource and investment corporations—if the stipulated disclosure and undertakings are provided to the regulator. It is proposed that a plan administrator would no longer be prevented from investing in more than 30% of the voting shares of any corporation. A threshold percentage could be established above which certain disclosure requirements or undertakings would apply. Possible requirements that may apply to the plan administrator and the corporation if the plan invests in more than a threshold percentage of that corporation’s voting shares are described below.

Behind all the technical legislative amendments and regulations, in simple terms, the government is trying to change the law to fund their own Ontario-based projects with future tax revenue from the ORPP. This Liberal government will even try to change federal law to cover its tracks to finally face the overwhelming infrastructure deficit, which it will achieve by getting control on all the cash by diverting the new payroll tax to provincial infrastructure projects.

Political interference in pension management is generally shunned because it is a sure way to compromise returns and jeopardize retirement savings. When I think of the Liberal motivations, the word “shameful” comes to mind.

The most important item of note did not come from this legislation. It was a line that was quietly announced in a recent Ontario budget which stated that by “encouraging more Ontarians to save through a proposed new Ontario Retirement Pension Plan,” it reads, “new pools of capital would be available for Ontario-based projects such as building roads, bridges and new transit.”

With the current legislation, it is up to the discretion and

interpretation of the ORPP Administration Corp. to make investments that they consider to be to the benefit of members and other beneficiaries. The above-mentioned ability, in concert with the questionable purpose announced in the budget, draws into question the true motive of this pension plan. It is of great concern that the goal of this program is for the fiscally challenged Ontario government to gather money through a new payroll tax for the purpose of pooling funds for new provincial infrastructure programs.

I’m wondering, since I’ve come to the end of a particular section, if we might recess at this point.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): I’m sorry?

Mrs. Julia Munro: I’m asking if we could recess at this point because I’m at a particular point in my remarks where I’d like to begin tomorrow.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Okay. I guess we could go on for questions and comments because I can’t recess the House this early.

Mrs. Julia Munro: If not, then I’ll continue.

I want to then elaborate on the point that I was making earlier about the importance of what pensions are for. Pensions are for pensioners. It’s very clear when you look at the mandate of the Canada Pension Plan. The CPP and their investment board mandate is set out in legislation. It states that the CPP investment board’s objective “is to invest its assets with a view to achieving a maximum rate of return, without undue risk of loss, having regard to the factors that may affect the funding of the CPP and the ability of the CPP to meet its financial obligations on any given business day.”

I think it’s really important for viewers to appreciate that it’s very clear that these are the rules for the CPP. There’s not the fuzzy question of the benefit of members and other beneficiaries, as in the ORPP, as well as the excerpt from the budget document, which then allowed more Ontarians to save through a proposed new Ontario retirement plan. New pools of capital would be available for Ontario-based projects such as building roads, bridges and new transit. I think motive then becomes extremely important in understanding the complexity of this initiative for all Ontarians.

It’s very clear from the material that I presented this morning that it is not in the best interest of poor people and it is a burden to those in the middle class because it reduces their choices in savings.

One of the other things that is sort of an interesting light in terms of the position taken by the government—when the first bill was being introduced, I and my other caucus members on the committee wanted to introduce an amendment that would raise the minimum entry age from 18 to 19. The Liberals voted that down. Then we tried 20. Then we tried 21.

There was obviously a certain frustration on the other side: “Why are you doing this?”

We said it’s because between 18 and 25, many young people are in many different part-time jobs as they are working their way through school, or they’re getting new jobs or they’re looking for one. They have education debt to pay.

You’re taking the money from them when in fact the return on that money will come at age 65. Maybe they don’t contribute for more than a couple of years in their youth, and then they either are somewhere where Ontario has no jurisdiction, or they have a different kind of pension set-up—they don’t have an ORPP. This hardly seems like a fair way, and it doesn’t seem like we’re trusting these people with their own money, to make the right decisions. But, no, you are eligible to contribute from age 18 to age 70.

The complexity of this is also illustrated by the number of acts that are affected and the technical responsibility in bringing these. I’ll just give you a sense of the breadth of what will happen.

Acts that are affected: the Ontario Municipal Employees Retirement System Act, the Ontario Retirement Pension Plan Act, the Ontario Retirement Pension Plan Administration Corporation Act, the Pension Benefits Act—

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Okay, the member was kind of hoping that this would end for now, so I think I’ll cut it off a couple minutes early for her.

Second reading debate deemed adjourned.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): I will recess the House until 10:30 this morning.

The House recessed from 1012 to 1030.

Introduction of Visitors

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Before we move into introductions, I do know that there are quite a few to make. I’ll be making them from the Speaker’s gallery. We do have some special guests there. I know that there are other guests, so if we could go through introductions as quickly as possible, to give us some time to get to the tribute, it would be appreciated.

Mr. Todd Smith: I’d like to welcome some members from the Ontario Dental Association: Nikki Smith, Dr. Graham Baldwin, Dr. Lisa Bentley, Dr. John Glenny, Dr. Jeremiah Collins, Dr. Homa Jammehdiabadi, Dr. Tom Drake and Dr. Brian Tenaschuk, as well as the photographer from the ODA, Dave Merrow. Welcome to Queen’s Park today.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: I have the honour of having a couple of guests here from Timmins. I see Fred Gibbons, who is all the way in from Northern College. Also, Lou Visconti is here with the ODA in regard to the lobbying efforts today.

Hon. James J. Bradley: From the Ontario Dental Association, Dr. Ivan Hrabowsky of St. Catharines: Welcome to the House.

Mr. Norm Miller: I’d like to welcome Mike Longo, John Fase and Scott McIntyre from the Canadian Assistive Devices Association, who I met with earlier this morning and are here today.

Ms. Cindy Forster: I want to introduce the people that are here for the Kormos tribute who you won’t be introducing. So there will be no repeats.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): How do you know?

Ms. Cindy Forster: I’ve settled that with your office.

We have Mike Haines; Marie Chamberland; Malcolm Allen, the former Niagara Centre MP; Colleen Ionson; Larry Savage; Val Fogarty; Denise Turner; Laurie Orrett; Mark Cherney, Gord Nye, Derrick Smith and John Grimshaw, all from IBEW; Willie Noiles; Claudette Therien; John Pruyn; Susan Pruyn; Melva Snowling; Gillian Snowling; Wayne Nichols; Lisa North; Andy Roy; Bruce Logan; Lisa Kristenson; Lorie Peacock; Peter Scott; Marilyn Bellamy; and Dave Wintle. If I forgot anybody, I’ll see you at the event.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I can’t resist: You did hit a couple.

Mr. John Fraser: I’d like to recognize the Canadian Assistive Devices Association here today in the gallery. They provide Ontarians, through our assistive devices program, with the devices they need to have independent lives. Their chairman, Mark Agro, the president of Otto Bock Healthcare Canada and maker of Terry Fox’s prosthesis, is seated in the gallery, joined by Hughes Myner, Daniel Mead, Andreas Shultz and Diane Ramos.

Mr. Patrick Brown: I’d like to recognize a few of the advocates for Georgian Bay General Hospital who are here today: Cynthia King, from Beausoleil First Nation, band council health critic; Kathy Willis, the executive director of Huronia Transition Homes; and Dr. Martin McNamara, former chief of staff of Georgian Bay General Hospital.

Ms. Sarah Campbell: I’d like to welcome Dr. Les Armstrong, who is here with the Ontario Dental Association. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I’d like to welcome Dr. Peter Fendrich from the ODA, a good friend and constituent of mine.

Mr. Bill Walker: I’d like to introduce Dr. John Totton, a dentist from Owen Sound, members of the ODA, doctors from the Ontario Association of Naturopathic Doctors, and Maggie Head, a former staff member for Speaker Steve Peters.

M me France Gélinas: I also want to welcome Dr. Tara O’Brien, who is a naturopathic doctor, and Dr. Roch St-Aubin, who is a dentist from Sudbury. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Hon. Kevin Daniel Flynn: I’d like to introduce three dentists today: Dr. Ian McConnachie, Dr. Vipan Maini and Dr. Kelvin Fung, who are here from the ODA. I’d also like you to give a warm Queen’s Park welcome to my naturopath from Oakville, Dr. Nyla Jiwani.

Mr. Lorne Coe: I’d like to introduce Dr. Leigh Arseneau, a naturopath doctor from my riding of Whitby–Oshawa. Welcome, Doctor.

Ms. Peggy Sattler: I’d like to extend a warm welcome to three guests who have joined us today from London West: Nadine Reeves and her daughters Beah Learn and Ella Learn. Welcome.

Ms. Sophie Kiwala: I’d like to welcome Dr. Waji Khan from the Ontario Dental Association to the chamber.

Mr. Monte McNaughton: I want to welcome from Strathroy in my riding of Lambton–Kent–Middlesex naturopathic doctor David Shih.

Mr. Wayne Gates: I’d like to welcome to Queen’s Park Larry Savage. The nice thing about Larry is he wrote a book about Peter Kormos called Socialist Cowboy. Larry, thanks for doing that. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Mrs. Cristina Martins: It gives me great pleasure to introduce a group of grade 10 students from my riding of Davenport from Oakwood Collegiate Institute who are here today with their teacher, Ingrid Montarras. A special shout-out to Eric, who served as my first page. Welcome.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: It’s my pleasure to introduce somebody from my riding who is here today and is the sister-in-law to my next-door neighbour as well. She’s a naturopath. Her name is Colleen McQuarrie, and I want to welcome her to the Ontario Legislature today.

Mr. Percy Hatfield: I’d like to welcome a good friend of mine. Jim Reilly is here in the members’ east gallery. He’s here for the Peter Kormos tribute today.

Hon. Steven Del Duca: I’m delighted to introduce Dr. Eric Marsden, a naturopathic doctor from Vaughan, and Rupa Salwan, a student at the Canadian College of Naturopathic Medicine.

Mr. Rick Nicholls: I’d like to introduce Dr. Brock McGregor from the great riding of Chatham–Kent–Essex—he’s here on behalf of the naturopathic doctors; he’s also a councillor from the municipality of Chatham-Kent—as well as Dr. Art Worth, a good friend who’s here on behalf of the Ontario Dental Association.

Hon. Michael Gravelle: I would like to also welcome Fred Gibbons, the hard-working president of Northern College—thank you for being here, Fred—and also Dr. Jerry Smith, past president of the Ontario Dental Association.

Mr. Jeff Yurek: I’d like to welcome Dr. Dave Jones from the Dorchester area, a dentist in my riding.

Ms. Sarah Campbell: I’d like to welcome the former member for Kenora–Rainy River, Howard Hampton.

Ms. Indira Naidoo-Harris: I’d like to welcome the Ontario Association of Naturopathic Doctors. Specifically, a warm welcome to John Wellner, the CEO.

Miss Monique Taylor: I’m pleased today to welcome my left arm, my EA here at Queen’s Park, Norm MacAskill.

Ms. Soo Wong: I want to recognize one of our colleagues—it’s her birthday—the Minister of Education. Happy birthday.

Mr. Lou Rinaldi: I’d like to welcome Dr. Barbara Weiss from Port Hope. Welcome.

Hon. Dipika Damerla: I want to welcome Dr. Brian Tenaschuk from Mississauga with the Ontario Dental Association. Welcome.

Mr. Yvan Baker: I’d like to introduce a few folks. First of all, the mother and cousin of page Vanessa Russell are here, Jenn Russell and Stephanie Manikas. Welcome to Queen’s Park. Then, one of my constituents here with the Ontario Dental Association: Dr. John Glenny is here as well.

Hon. Charles Sousa: Please welcome to our Legislative Assembly today the parents of page captain Sohan Van de Mosselaer. He’s here with his mother, Dr. Mili Roy, and Dr. Gregory Van de Mosselaer, together with school friends Lianna, Luke, Kiara, Ragesh and Maddie. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome all to the Legislative Assembly to support this great young gentleman.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Further introductions?

I do have a few of my own.

In the Speaker’s gallery today, we have guests of mine, Sonia DiPetta and Filomena Ferraro, joining me for lunch today. Welcome.

Also, we have a very good friend of mine and a very hard-working doctor in Brant, Dr. Alfred Hauk. Thank you, Doctor, for being here.

We also have with us in the gallery today Mr. Alexandros Ioannidis, the consul general of Greece to Toronto. Welcome.

Finally, would members please join me in welcoming the family and friends of the late Mr. Peter Kormos, MPP for Welland–Thorold during the 34th, 35th and 36th Parliaments, MPP for Niagara Centre during the 37th and 38th Parliaments, and MPP for Welland during the 39th Parliament. They are seated in the Speaker’s gallery today: his cousins Yannik and Mario Kormos, and Helen, Robert, Nicholas and Teanna Brown, as well as many, many friends who have come to hear the tributes being paid.

Also in the Speaker’s gallery is Mr. David Warner, former Speaker and former MPP for Scarborough–Ellesmere; Mr. Michael Prue, former MPP for Beaches–East York—

Applause.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I think we’ve hit a competition here. We’ll see what happens.

We have Mr. Rosario Marchese, former MPP for Fort York and Trinity–Spadina; Ms. Shelley Martel, former MPP for Sudbury East and Nickel Belt; Mr. Drummond White, former MPP for Durham Centre; and Mr. Malcolm Allen, former MP for Welland.

Applause.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): It’s not done yet. I have one more.

In the members’ gallery: Mr. Howard Hampton, former leader of the third party and MPP for Kenora–Rainy River and Rainy River.

Applause.

Peter Kormos

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I would now entertain a motion.

On a point of order, the deputy House leader.

Hon. James J. Bradley: Mr. Speaker, I believe you will find that we have unanimous consent to pay tribute to Peter Kormos, a former member for Welland, with a representative from each caucus speaking for up to five minutes.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The deputy House leader is looking for unanimous consent to pay tribute to Peter Kormos. Do we agree? Agreed.

Hon. James J. Bradley: Mr. Speaker, I’m deeply honoured to have been asked by my caucus to reflect upon the memories and impressions of Peter Kormos and the profound impact he had on the lives of people in our community of Niagara and our province and indeed our entire country. To do so in just a few minutes is a challenge, since I think any one of us who served with Peter could take an hour or more to fully capture our own recollections of an individual who was truly, and I say truly, one of a kind.

The size and composition of the gathering at his funeral—and it was a full house, I assure you of that. It included members of the press gallery, people from all walks of life. The size and composition of the gathering at his funeral spoke volumes about the man and the influence he had on all of us, whether it was those in the highest positions in our society or regular folks who had felt an attachment to the man who stood up for them when it seemed that others had forgotten them.

In politics, we recognize that it’s often easier to avoid controversial issues that stir raw emotions in the population, and to deal in generalities or to sit on the fence. There was never any room on that fence for Peter Kormos. If there were feathers to be ruffled, Peter was there to ruffle them. He was always prepared to comfort the afflicted and to afflict the comfortable; in fact, he took great pleasure in doing so.

It is said that politics is theatre at either its best or its worst, and indeed that is true, and on the political stage, there was none better than our friend Peter Kormos. He could be outrageous, bombastic or shocking, but you also and always felt that, unlike the manufactured rage that we observe on the political stage so often, his anger was genuine and his passion unquestioned, particularly when he was defending the interests of the weak, the downtrodden, the bullied or the disadvantaged.

Peter was prepared to take on the powerful and the privileged no matter what the consequences might be, no matter how unpopular the cause might be. He was unfailing in his support for and defence of working people and the unions who defended their interests. They had no better friend than Peter Kormos, and they rewarded him with their solid electoral support, election after election.

Strikes and picket lines are seldom popular with the general public, and demonstrations are often frowned upon by a large portion of the population. That never stopped Peter from joining his “brothers and sisters” in protest, and they never forgot that gesture on his part.

In the book Giving Away a Miracle, in which the authors took an often critical look at the NDP government of the day, they observed, “If some people are loose cannons, Kormos was a runaway multiple warhead.” It was a description that Peter would have worn as a badge of honour.

Some people dedicate their lives to business, a profession, an occupation, family or various personal options; Peter Kormos dedicated his life to politics. His knowledge of and respect for parliamentary procedure and democratic process were second to none. He could speak without notes, without the party script, without prepared talking points on virtually any subject, with eloquence and with authority. His analysis of legislation was thorough and comprehensive, since he was one of the very few legislators who actually read a bill from cover to cover.

You might disagree with his approach or his conclusions, but you knew they were based on solid research, vast experience and personal principles.

His knowledge of his constituency and his presence in his local community were legendary, as evidenced by those who are here today from the community and those who, back at home, are watching this particular eulogy. But some of us recognized that his presence in the halls of the Ontario Legislature, often at times when others had left for personal pursuits, was felt profoundly. Peter was the go-to guy for the NDP, the individual who was working when no one else was available. He did the media scrums, the sound bites and the panels when others had gone home because, in many ways, the Legislature and politics were his home.

Peter Kormos, as TVO’s Steve Paikin observed, “saw injustice and wanted to right it.” Our friend Peter saw unfairness and wanted to bring about fairness in our society. He observed inequality and wanted to overcome that inequality. Wherever and whenever Peter Kormos saw a need for government or society to intervene on behalf of the vulnerable, the needy or those without privilege or position, he took on the challenge.

A biography of Peter Kormos, written by Brock University professor Larry Savage—I’m referring to Socialist Cowboy, and Larry is in the gallery today observing the proceedings of the Legislature—tells a story of a renegade in politics whose contribution to the public dialogue was unmatched in recent Ontario history. And he did it following his mentor, Mel Swart, who was a beloved individual in the Niagara Peninsula and this Legislature as well.

When the news broke of Peter’s sudden and unexpected death, shock, disbelief and, later, profound sadness permeated the ranks of those with whom he worked, as it did the community at large. Just as when illness struck a few years back, when political friend and adversary alike expressed genuine concern for his well-being, immense sadness greeted the news of his passing. He would have observed people of all political stripes at his funeral to pay tribute to a political icon in our part of the province. Political schedules are often full and unmovable, but you saw at the gathering in his honour so many who wanted to say farewell to a friend—my friend, your friend, our friend, Peter Kormos.

At the cabinet meeting after the news of his passing emerged, the conversations turned, as we filed from the cabinet room, to Peter Kormos and our final chance to say goodbye to a beloved colleague, and a wish from Premier Wynne that all of us could join her in making our way to the memorial service in Peter’s honour in Thorold.

It is said at virtually every funeral service that the deceased person will be missed. Indeed, this is always true for family and close friends. Peter is truly missed. There’s no replacement for a person of his character. He cannot be cloned. His is a pattern that cannot be duplicated. Peter Kormos may be gone from us in the mortal sense, but his memory will live on in the hearts and minds of those of us who had the privilege of serving with him in this House, and in all who encountered him in their daily lives.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Further tribute?

Mr. Jim Wilson: On behalf of our leader and our PC caucus, I’m delighted to pay tribute today to a man who was a true blue-collar hero to Welland and Thorold, and quite frankly a legendary figure in this assembly, known for his wit, style and, above all, his blunt integrity.

Peter Kormos’s star burned bright. He earned the respect and admiration of everyone who had the good fortune to know him, including people like me who are in different political parties. Most importantly, he earned the respect and admiration of the average person he represented as a lawyer or as an elected official. His constituents knew that he would fight for them without hesitation or reservation. There can be no higher compliment given than that earned respect.

While Peter was flamboyant and always stood out in a crowd, he never forgot his roots and had no patience for what he termed “horsefeathers.” Peter didn’t use the term “horsefeathers” because he was being polite; as someone well-versed in parliamentary procedures and rules, he knew he could be kicked out for using unparliamentary language. Peter being who he was, he just couldn’t resist pushing the envelope, so he found clever euphemisms and turns of phrase to torment every Speaker. Everyone clearly knew what Peter was saying, but no Speaker could reference existing rulings or make new ones up fast enough to tie up Peter’s cutting tongue.

Peter entered the provincial Legislature in 1988, two years before I also began my role as an MPP. One of the reasons I credit for my own longevity in this job is that I was fortunate not to ever find myself in Peter’s crosshairs.

This was a man who wasn’t afraid to fire shots at absolutely anyone and everyone. When insurance company executives appeared at a legislative committee during the Peterson government’s time in office—they were introducing legislation that would increase insurance rates—Peter earned a reprimand from his own party leader for calling them “whores” and “slime.” Yes, Mr. Speaker, there was a time when reading Hansard topped any reality show for shock and entertainment value.

Peter was single-handedly responsible for the highest viewership of the Legislative Assembly television channel. In protest of Premier Peterson’s insurance legislation, he filibustered for 37 hours, at one time speaking for 17 hours non-stop. Thousands of Ontario residents tuned in to watch this marathon feat. He had set up telephone lines to take in viewers’ concerns and comments, which he used to keep on talking. More than 500 people called into those lines, one of which was even staffed by then-NDP leader Bob Rae.

Mischievously, Peter also provided colouring books for government Liberal MPPs during the middle of the night, when he saw they were getting a bit restless. I can’t even imagine how much fun Peter could be having if he were still in the Legislature today.

It was such a delight for me to see Peter in action in this Legislature. He had such an intellect, and he would mesmerize everyone just about every time he stood up to speak. It was in Peter’s nature to deflate arrogance, inflict discomfort on the comfortable and comfort those in need or in trouble.

Even at an early age, Mr. Speaker, there is a track record of challenging authority without reservation and often with humour. He was never afraid to get into a bit of trouble and would pay the price without complaint. As a practising lawyer, he used to regularly park in the judge’s reserved parking spot, often getting his sports car towed away. He obviously thought the sight of the judge having to fish out coins for a parking meter was worth the cost of the tow.

As both an alderman and local lawyer before he entered provincial politics, Peter was well known for being scrappy and combative. Just before winning his first provincial election, he was cited for contempt of court on the grounds that he was insolent and grandstanding. I understand the citation was dropped just days before voting day. Personally, I suspect that everyone at court just wanted him to go to Queen’s Park so he wouldn’t be in their faces on a daily basis. In fact, there is a rumour that the lawyers whose arguments he would rip apart in court actually took up a collection to ensure his campaign had enough money for him to succeed to his election to Queen’s Park.

Peter never forgot his roots and remained a maverick even when he was in the government caucus under Bob Rae. In the early days of the Rae government, there was a ridiculous amount of controversy over a photo that was taken of Peter. He appeared as the Sunshine Boy in the Toronto Sun. He was fully and conservatively dressed, wearing a white shirt, dark pants and a tie. In fact, he was probably more dressed up than was his usual habit here in the Ontario Legislature of cowboy boots and no tie. For some reason, this photo generated more anguish in the government at the time than any of the shenanigans of the day.

Cabinet colleagues of Peter were critical, and Bob Rae ultimately removed him from cabinet. Different times indeed, Mr. Speaker.

Personally, I was just jealous of Peter. No newspaper has ever asked me to pose for a glamour shot.

Laughter.

Mr. Jim Wilson: Don’t get too excited over there.

He will always be fondly remembered and greatly missed. Many of the newer MPPs in this assembly never had the privilege of seeing Peter in action. There have been few MPPs like Peter, that could command the attention of everyone each time he rose to speak. He had relentless drive and energy, never mincing words. Peter never hesitated to call “horsefeathers” in this assembly and express himself fully.

When I think of Peter, I often remember how he would take every opportunity to reprimand the government for limiting debate through time allocation and closure motions. I know many of us fondly remember him yelling his famous line on these occasions: “The Liberals don’t want to work.”

I know he would be saying that regularly if he was still with us today, so as in every debate that Peter participated in, once again, today, Peter gets the final word.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Further tribute?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: It is certainly a privilege to rise on behalf of New Democrats to pay tribute to our colleague, a mentor, and our friend, Peter Kormos.

To his family who is here with us this morning from Welland and Niagara and, I understand, as far away as Slovakia, Peter was a brother, a nephew, a cousin. But in this House, Peter is a giant who earned respect and admiration across the aisles, as we’ve heard this morning, Speaker.

In our party, he’s an icon. To the people of Welland and Thorold, the people he served here incredibly well for 23 years, Peter Kormos was a friend and a familiar face they could count on to always put the concerns of hard-working people first.

As was said, for newer members of this House who have only been here since 2011, I should say that no speech confined to using parliamentary language will ever quite do justice to Peter Kormos. This is a man who knew the standing orders better than anyone, but also knew how to swear like a sailor and liked nothing better than skating close to those lines, which is why, if you look up Hansard, you can see Peter’s erudite articulation of the philosophical difference between lying, which, of course, is an unparliamentary accusation, and, on the other hand, bullspitting, which Peter reasoned is a perfectly parliamentary term to describe what too many politicians try to do.

Nothing was going to stop Peter Kormos from telling it like it was, Speaker. He brought politics down to earth and he made sure that people back home could actually hear their voices in this Legislature. It was that commitment to the people of Welland that he wore on his sleeve, the sleeves of buttoned-down shirts that were made in Canada by unionized workers who he knew were treated fairly and paid decent wages, shirts that were laundered and pressed at Lee-Wah Laundry and that he had probably picked up at Blake’s menswear, because Peter knew that those local businesses and hard-working families are exactly what make our community strong. He knew that he worked for them.

And as was said, he worked around the clock. If that meant filibustering for 17 hours when the government tried to shut down debate, Peter would do that.

If it meant going undercover at the Family Responsibility Office, Peter would do that too. And if it meant borrowing Michael Prue’s union-made tuxedo and wearing it in this House, Peter would do that just to prove his point that New Democrats can never be bullied or shamed out of doing our jobs. Because of those memorable tactics, Speaker, he was reminding us that politics is about one thing: It’s about making a difference in people’s lives, and he was going to do that one way or another.

Even if it meant challenging people’s assumptions, Peter was going to do the right thing, like when he fought for presumed consent for organ donation to help save the lives of people stuck waiting for transplants. To paraphrase Peter, it’s not so much an extraordinary act to donate an organ; the extraordinary act is to not donate an organ when people’s lives hang in the balance. That’s who Peter was.

No problem was too big or too daunting to take on. When the rights of thousands of Torontonians were violated during the G20 summit, Peter stood up for the civil rights of those peaceful protestors and bystanders. He stood up for people who had been all too literally trampled on, and he stood up for people whose rights were being ignored. Whenever workers were locked out or when they were forced to the picket line to protect their rights, whether it was a factory in the smallest town or the tallest tower on Bay Street, Peter was there, letting those workers know that they were not alone.

Voilà qui était Peter. Voilà le genre de gars qu’il était.

He stuck to his principles, even if it meant taking on his own government or his own party. I can tell you, as I said at his funeral, that Peter could be a real pain in the—you know where I’m going with that, Speaker—a real pain in the posterior, shall we say. But because of those principles and because he never forgot who he was working for, Peter has left a tremendous legacy to this House and to this province.

For New Democrats, he summed it up best when he spoke about the work that we try to do each and every day. Here’s what he said on December 18, 2003, while standing just a few feet from where I am standing right now. He said, “New Democrats are going to work provincially, New Democrats are going to work federally, to fight for those people who need fighting for, to speak for those people who need speaking for, to stand up for those people who need help standing up for themselves and to stand up for those people who have been dumped on, trashed on, shoved aside, marginalized, beaten up on, whacked, for far too long.” No one could have put it better, Speaker.

Peter knew perfectly well that, even once he was gone, his work would continue, because the people of Ontario still need voices that speak up and people who stand up and aren’t afraid to call “bullspit,” or step up close to the line of what’s allowed.

Speaker, we have our caucus members today wearing their shirt sleeves in honour of Peter’s favourite uniform here in the Legislature. It’s funny to recall that this irked so much one of the high-standing members of the Liberal caucus at one point in time that she actually was going to try to bring a dress code into Queen’s Park because it so irked her that Peter wore his shirt sleeves every day. So thank you, members of the NDP caucus who are in their shirt sleeves today. It’s quite a funny recollection.

One of the things that’s true is that Peter had a voracious appetite for knowledge and information. In fact, when I first became leader, he was sitting beside me as my House leader. I would notice every day that he would have the dictionary. I would say, “Why do you have the dictionary, Peter? I’m sure you don’t have to look up the meanings of words. You pretty much know everything about everything.” He said, “Well, Ms. Horwath, I choose one word every day that I don’t know and I use that word for the rest of the day until I know that word and know what it means.” That’s how Peter was expanding his vocabulary day in and day out.

It’s interesting, because we know that Peter was a voracious consumer of information and knowledge. He was always reading articles, newspapers, various books of precedents and literature. It was quite astounding how much information and knowledge he could take in, anything that his insatiable mind could get a hold of. In fact, the remnants of his intellectual consumption literally littered his office, his home, his apartment and even his car, if people had the opportunity to see the places where Peter consumed information.

In fact, when I first was elected, Peter offered to drive me home after those night sittings that we used to have back in the day. I said, “Sure, that’s great. Thanks for the offer.” He had a little truck at the time. We were parked under the archways on the east side of the building. I went to get into his car. I opened the door, and I literally ended up with my knees at my chin because there were stacks of articles and paperwork that were on the floor of his truck on the passenger side. That’s what it was like with Peter: two-foot-tall stacks of paper everywhere you went.

Speaker, if Peter had known how much pleasure his memory would give us, how many times we’d find ourselves chuckling at his antics or cursing the thought of what he managed to get away with or finding ourselves inspired by his wit and his wonderful mind, I have no doubt that he would have flashed that Peter Kormos grin and then he would have told us all, in no uncertain terms, to get back to work, which is a turn on the phrase that was used by the member of the official opposition in his tribute, which is “Liberals don’t want to work.” Right?

Peter, we’ll miss you like crazy. We want to thank you here in this House for the 23 years of dedicated service that you gave to the people of Ontario. I want to end by actually inviting people here in the Legislature, on all sides of the House, and all guests to come and spend some more time remembering Peter at Hart House, after question period, in the east common room.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I want to thank all members for their thoughtful and heartfelt comments on this tribute day.

If you’ll forgive me, I will just offer that I, too, have fond memories of Peter. I was the recipient of some of his mentoring and tutoring. I took it with the grace that it was intended, because there were times where he took me aside after the fact and basically said, “Now, here’s what you learned.” So I thought I would share that with you.

Also, to all of the members who have made comment about his language: I was not Speaker during that time, so, from the grave, Peter, you’re out of order.

To the family and friends, in our tributes, we always provide a DVD for the family and a copy of Hansard.

Again, for all of the family members and on behalf of all Ontarians, thank you for the gift of Peter.

Oral Questions

Fundraising

Mr. Patrick Brown: My question is for the Premier. As Adrian Morrow from the Globe and Mail pointed out yesterday, the Ontario Liberal Party has received at least $400,000 from companies that received grants from the Liberal government. That’s only from the companies that we know about.

This certainly raises some questions that demand answers. Will the Premier commit today to ending all fundraising targets for her cabinet: yes or no?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Mr. Speaker, thank you for the question from the Leader of the Opposition. He knows full well that we are going to be moving to change the rules around political donations. I have said many times that it would be great to have his input on the direction that he thinks we should be going. I’ve been very clear that as we draft legislation we would like to have the input of both the opposition leaders, so that when we bring that legislation forward and before it goes out for consultation after first reading—which Peter Kormos would remind us is unusual, Mr.

Speaker, because usually legislation goes out after second reading—we would have the opportunity and the benefit of their input.

The Leader of the Opposition led his question with a commentary about companies that have donated to the Liberal Party. Many of those companies donated to all three parties, and the Leader of the Opposition knows that full well.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Patrick Brown: Back to the Premier: There are numerous companies that receive grants from this government and also donate to the Liberal Party—disproportionately so. The donations come both before and after companies receive grants from the Liberal government. It gives the appearance that the Liberal government has been operating a pay-to-play scheme.

Mr. Speaker, can the Premier explain why it’s so difficult to provide the people of Ontario with a list of the companies that you have given tax dollars to? If you have nothing to hide, provide the list and highlight all the contracts, grants and donations that have been made.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: The reality is that we make announcements about those grants. They are public announcements, Mr. Speaker, and I will just say that the members of the opposition party show up to those announcements, because they know that jobs with Cisco and Ford and Linamar and Toyota—all companies that have given to all parties—they know that the jobs that are created in their communities because of the vast investments that those companies are making in Ontario are good for their constituents, just as they’re good for the Ontario economy.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Before I turn to the leader, I’m going to remind you that it’s difficult for me to get control if, while answering, members of that side continue to heckle. And having the heckling from that side is not helpful either. Let’s have this discussion, please.

Mr. Patrick Brown: Back to the Premier: The Premier says she makes public all the grants they announce. That, Mr. Speaker, is not accurate. If you look at the Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment grant of $500,000, shortly thereafter a $30,000 donation to the Liberal Party. There was no announcement. There was no press release. So my challenge is, will you release all the grants, all the contracts the government has done? It is the right thing to do. If you have nothing to hide, you should do that.

It speaks to the problem that the Auditor General has raised: $1.45 billion in grants and interest-free loans. The Auditor General said there was no ability to track the economic success of the grants. So if it’s not about jobs, if it’s not about economic success, as the Auditor General has outlined, what is it about? Is it about fundraising? Is it about supporting the Liberal Party?

Do the right thing: Welcome a public inquiry. Be transparent, like you promised.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

Premier.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: What the Leader of the Opposition’s question is about is innuendo. The Auditor General in her recent report said that funding decisions for business supports are made independently. Political donations do not determine policy in this government. I’ve said that clearly. That remains to be the case.

Mr. Monte McNaughton: Some 80% were invited to apply.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

The member from Lambton–Kent–Middlesex, come to order.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): You’re next, if you try it.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Mr. Speaker, any suggestion that political donations buy policy decisions is completely, completely false. That’s why we’ve committed to a rational, depoliticized process. The reality is that there are—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I’m not going to allow it to happen.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: There are companies that have received grants from the province because they have made huge investments. They have created jobs. The Leader of the Opposition and the leader of the third party—their parties have benefited from donations from those same companies. I hope we’re now going to work together to change the rules—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

If I’m going to get tested, you’ll fail.

New question.

Health care funding

Mr. Patrick Brown: My question is for the Premier. Since the Premier doesn’t want to the talk about Adrian Morrow’s column on the Liberal donation scandal, let’s talk about another column. This one was written on the weekend by Dr. Nadia Alam.

It reads that in Toronto alone, “The steep price of the government’s actions in the past six months” has cost the health care system “a family doctor, an ophthalmologist, an orthopedic surgeon,” a blood-testing clinic, “and two addiction clinics....” That affected over 60,000 patients.

The government benches want to laugh about that. They want to laugh about the health care cuts. I was shocked that they released radio ads—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. I can’t do the other side if you continue to interrupt. It stops.

Finish, please.

Mr. Patrick Brown: Mr. Speaker, the government may laugh about these cuts, and now they want to do vanity ads, radio ads, saying what a great job they’re doing on health care. Maybe instead of running radio ads around the province, saying why you’re doing a great job in health care, put that money into patients.

My question to the Premier is, will you start supporting Ontario’s patients? Will you stop—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. Be seated, please.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The Minister of Tourism, Culture and Sport will come to order.

Premier.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Mr. Speaker, there’s a billion more dollars going into health care this year as a result of this budget. There’s $345 million going into hospitals.

The reality is that there are changes in health care that are happening around the province, but there are not funding cuts. A billion dollars more is going into health care as a result of the budget that we just put in place.

But the reality is that people want more care in their communities. People want to make sure they are getting care from centres of excellence. We want to make sure that people get the health care they need, when they need it, and where they need it.

I make no apologies for the fact that the health care system is undergoing a transformation. That is necessary. Our demographics are changing. We must make those changes. The Leader of the Opposition thinks that we can remain static. He does not understand the nature of the population in this province. We need to make changes, and we continue to increase funding.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock, please. Be seated, please. Thank you.

Final supplementary.

Mr. Patrick Brown: Mr. Speaker, back to the Premier: The Premier says she’s investing in health care. The gall, that she can make that assertion—but then again, the finance minister said yesterday that hydro bills are going down.

So let’s speak about the facts. Let’s look at a few cities around Ontario. St. Joseph’s hospital in London: $8.5 million cut, 60 staff positions lost. The wait time at St. Joe’s ER is already one of the longest in Ontario, and it will be worse now, because of the Liberals.

The people in Welland are worried about their hospital, and it could be on the chopping block any day.

St. Joe’s hospital in Hamilton lost 136 jobs just months ago because of this government, yet the Premier says she’s investing in health care. Every hospital is being forced to cut staff, being forced to cut critical services.

The only thing this government is investing in is more vanity ads. Stop spending health care money on radio ads. Spend it to support Ontario’s patients. Do the right thing—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Be seated, please. Thank you.

I’m sorry. That was your first supplementary. There is a final supplementary coming.

Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Health and Long-Term Care.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Mr. Speaker, only the PC Party could describe a billion dollars more invested in our health care system as “a cut.”

Only the PC Party that promised to fire 100,000 Ontario employees, including thousands of health care workers, could describe what we’re doing as anything but a further investment in our health care system.

We’re investing $10 billion in new capital infrastructure for our hospitals. We’re doing the opposite of what that member did when he was part of the government in Ottawa: when he allowed the health accord to collapse and lapse; when he closed the Health Council of Canada; when he voted for a budget that axed the Canada Interim Federal Health Program for refugees—he was part of that government in Ottawa. So it’s rich to hear from this party this newfound interest in investing in health care.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. Be seated, please.

Final supplementary.

Mr. Patrick Brown: Back to the Premier. The health minister likes to say they’re investing more in health care. Yet the health minister can’t find a single physician or nurse in the province who will say this government isn’t cutting health care. Let me talk about another example close to home in my riding of Simcoe North.

At Georgian Bay General Hospital, they’re closing the obstetrics unit, cutting beds, reducing services in the ICU, cutting seven acute care beds, shipping out pediatric surgery. It seems like all the health care advertisement they’re doing isn’t about supporting patients at Georgian Bay general.

Mr. Speaker, will this government promise today, promise the people of Simcoe North, promise those in Midland, Penetanguishene, Tiny township, Tay township, Beausoleil First Nation—will you do the right thing? Will you not gut the health care services at Georgian Bay general? Will you promise not to pursue this $5-million cut? Will you do the right thing? We can’t—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. Be seated, please.

Interjections.

Mr. John Yakabuski: I’ve been warned for less. Let’s hear it: Will the Premier get warned for that kind of outburst?

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Start the clock.

I find it disappointing that if I don’t hear everything that’s going on in this place, the accusations fly about my neutrality. I’m insulted by that, to be honest. Regardless of how one sees it, I will try to call it as I see it and hear it. I hold it to you to be those people—not to me. If anyone says anything in this House, they have a right to stand and withdraw on their own.

Minister.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I hope I won’t have to withdraw in a moment, but I am so absolutely disgusted at what the member opposite just said. When he’s fearmongering about Georgian Bay General Hospital, talking about an obstetrics unit which is slated to close—which is absolutely false; there is no plan whatsoever, and he knows that. The board has not approved it. The LHIN has not approved it. The ministry has not approved it.

But, Mr. Speaker, he is part of a government that, for the last 10 years, turned their backs on our First Nations in this country and turned their backs on Ontario in letting the health accord lapse. He’s part of a party provincially that fired 6,000 nurses and that closed 10,000 hospital beds, and he’s got the nerve to stand up and speak things which frankly aren’t true.

I hope he has another supplementary or another question about Georgian Bay, because I know there are people in the gallery who deserve a truthful response from him.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please.

I would ask that we measure what we say in this House. Some things being said are not what I would call a race to the top.

New question.

Electoral reform

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is for the Premier. Can the Premier explain why she’s the only political leader in Ontario fighting against a non-partisan, open and transparent process to reform election laws in Ontario?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Mr. Speaker, I’m the only political leader in Ontario who wants to move quickly and expeditiously, have a full consultation on political donations, acknowledging that there’s a fair degree of consensus on the direction that we need to go, and is putting forward a proposal that will bring us to a place where we will have a change in rules, after a full consultation, by the beginning of January 2017.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: The Premier created a scandal when she designed a system where the Liberal Party appeared to be selling access to cabinet ministers. Yesterday, Liberals voted against a non-partisan, open and transparent process that would ensure our democratic reforms are fair to all Ontarians, no matter who they are or how deep their pockets are, Speaker. Can the Premier tell Ontarians why she’s putting the interests of the Liberal Party ahead of the interests of Ontarians?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Mr. Speaker, what I have said is that it would be great if we had some input from the leaders of the opposition parties on the substance of these reforms, because there has been already a fair bit of public discussion about this. There are other jurisdictions that have made changes, and we can look to those other jurisdictions.

So I’d ask the leader of the third party, does she agree that we should reform third-party advertising rules? Does she agree that we should constrain the maximum spending limits for election period? What does she think about between-election periods? Does she believe that we should put a ban on corporate and union donations? Does she believe there should be a public subsidy? Should it be a transitional subsidy? What should be the level of that subsidy? Does she believe that there should be a reduction of maximum donations to a figure that is in the range of what’s permitted federally?

These are all proposals that I have put forward and that I asked the leaders of the opposition parties to weigh in on, as we draft legislation. There has been no substance that has come from them. I’d be very interested in her thoughts on any of these subjects.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Stop the clock.

Just a quick comment: The member got dangerously close to impugning motive, so I want to just remind her that I am listening carefully to all of the conversations about that particular issue that I said would be happening during this particular timeframe. So just a gentle reminder, please.

Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: The Premier has claimed that there’s a consensus behind her plan—a plan that no one has seen—and she can’t point to a single meeting that she has had with Ontarians, experts or civil society. However, there is a public consensus, Speaker, for a transparent and non-partisan process. It’s a plan supported by New Democrats, Conservatives and the Green Party. Even the Liberal Party used to believe it was antidemocratic for one party to make up the rules. Now the Premier is the only political leader left in Ontario defending a system where one party makes the rules for a democracy of 14 million people.

Will this Premier take a step back, do the right thing and agree to a non-partisan process led by an independent panel? That’s what Ontarians deserve. That’s what she needs to show some leadership on.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Again, there are a number of issues. One that I’d be very interested to hear the leader of the third party opine on is a proposal on constraints on loans and loan guarantees to parties and candidates, including leadership candidates. It would be enlightening to hear her opinion on that, Mr. Speaker.

But the reality is that the leader of the third party talks about the democratic process, and I would suggest to her the democratic process that looks at legislation, brings legislation forward, allows for consultation, goes to committee and has commentary.

In fact, for example, right now I know the leader of the third party would understand that members of her party are working with the government party on the cap-and-trade legislation to give us an input. That’s a very good thing, because that’s part of the democratic process. All parties have the opportunity to either obstruct or to co-operate, and that’s part of the democratic process.

Electoral reform

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My next question is for the Premier. Last week, Democracy Watch said, “Key democracy laws across Canada are usually developed by all parties after meaningful public consultation and the Ontario Liberals should follow this tradition before changing the political finance system.”

The Premier has accused anyone who has criticized her plan of delaying and stalling for their purposes. Does she really believe that Democracy Watch and the Green Party of Ontario are only interested in stalling and delaying?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Mr. Speaker, let me be perfectly clear: What I have put forward are some proposals for positions that could go into draft legislation. I had a meeting with the leaders of the opposition parties. I said to them, “These are the things that I’m thinking about. These are the things that have happened in other jurisdictions. These are the things that have been part of the public discussion. I think we need to refine them. We need to have a discussion about them. How about we work together on draft legislation?” And right now, the government House leader is talking with the other House leaders about how they might have input into draft legislation.

We have not put forward a set-in-stone plan. What we have said is, “Here are some things that need to be discussed.” This is the proposition for consultation that would take the unusual step of sending draft legislation out after first reading and out after second reading, after conversation with the opposition parties on the draft of that legislation. Only at that point would we then have the opportunity to vote on that legislation and put those changes in place, expeditiously, by the beginning of January 2017.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: What this Premier refuses to be open about is the fact that both the leader of the Conservative Party—the official opposition—and myself, at that meeting, spent our time urging this Premier to put in place a process that is absolutely non-partisan, because that is what the people of this province deserve. She ignored that advice and she continues to ignore that advice.

The laws that govern our democracy should be built to last, not based on the whims of one political party. The Premier is setting a dangerous precedent here, that any majority government can change Ontario’s election laws whenever and however they want. One political leader shouldn’t be making decisions for a democracy of 14 million people.

Will this Premier finally do the right thing and open up this process to a non-partisan panel, where it belongs and where people can have faith in the results?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Deputy Premier.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I would argue that there’s nothing more democratic than the Ontario Legislature. Everyone in this House has been elected to debate legislation. That’s our job: to introduce, debate and pass laws.

We’re not alone in this kind of process. As I said yesterday, the Alberta NDP introduced legislation called

An Act to Renew Democracy in Alberta. They introduced legislation; then they sent the bill to committee for public consultations.

Back in 2003, Prime Minister Chrétien made changes to the Canada Elections Act. He didn’t call a royal commission to make these changes. He introduced a bill, it was sent to committee, and it was then amended based on the feedback that they received.

The NDP in Manitoba amended the Election Financing Act in 2012. They introduced a bill to change the annual allowance and then introduced new third-party rules. That’s what we’re doing—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: The head of Treasury Board over there should know very well that when these processes are undertaken in ways that are not non-partisan and that are not open and democratic in terms of engaging people, then the rules don’t last. That is the point. Ontarians deserve rules that last, not rules that are changed at the whim of any government that happens to have power in this Legislature. That’s the principal issue that we’re discussing here, and this government obstinately refuses to acknowledge that it is in fact an extremely important issue.

The Leader of the Opposition, the leader of the Green Party and I set aside our partisanship to call for this independent panel. I’m calling on this Premier to do the same thing: to set aside her partisanship and accept a process that is fair for every Ontarian and not just about the Liberal Party. Why can’t the Premier put a little faith in Ontarians, show a little bit of humility, have some confidence in the people of this province and make a non-partisan process occur?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I find it curious that the leader of the third party says these rules don’t last. I’d love to actually see what she’s talking about on that.

We think it’s time to move forward on important changes. We think it’s time to ban corporate donations. We think it’s time to ban union donations. We think it’s time to look really hard at rules around third-party advertising.

There are a number of changes where there is a broad consensus we need to move on. We welcome the input from the opposition parties, but they are refusing to provide anything other than an attack on the process—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Finish, please.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Speaker, we’re not prepared to stall this legislation. We want to move forward. We want to have public consultations over the summer so we can pass the legislation and bring these rule changes in as soon as we possibly can.

Health care funding

Mr. Jeff Yurek: My question is to the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care. Yesterday, I questioned the minister on the government’s continued rationing of health care: the fact that new patients no longer can access stem cell transplants in Ontario, the fact that the wait-list at Princess Margaret hospital is over 200 days. The minister’s response was purely misleading. The money announced by—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member will withdraw.

Mr. Jeff Yurek: I withdraw.

The minister’s response was not quite accurate, Mr. Speaker. The money announced by the minister will have no effect in the system for up to two years. Patients now have two choices: die, or travel out of country for their treatments.

We have gone from one treatment out of country a year upward to 202, at a cost of two to three times that of Ontario’s. Patients must also bear the costs of living expenses for themselves and caregivers for up to six months.

Will the minister stop the political rhetoric and give an honest answer to Ontarians on how the government will help those seeking stem cell transplants in Ontario today instead of two years from now?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

Minister of Health and Long-Term Care.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Mr. Speaker, currently, there are six hospitals in Ontario that provide stem cell transplants. As I mentioned yesterday, because of technological advancements, the number of individuals who are eligible, particularly for allogeneic, which is a donor transplant for the individual, has increased quite dramatically in this province, and that’s a positive thing. It’s great for the individuals.

We do realize that has led to wait-lists, which we are working on in two different ways—capital investments at $30 million that were announced in our budget and recently passed, which will go to increasing the number of beds and the ability for those centres to provide even more care. But we also understand that there are operational pressures, and so CCO, Cancer Care Ontario, has a responsibility of working with these six centres. We’re working with them on the capital, we’re working with them on the operational, but we’re also providing that option for individuals for out-of-country treatments, should they so choose it.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Jeff Yurek: Back to the minister: The six other centres are also operating at full capacity.

The situation highlights the continued mismanagement of health care by this government, and the situation did not come about without warning. In 2008, Cancer Care Ontario released a report to this government. It stated: “Access to transplant services in Ontario is at imminent risk.... Services in the greater Toronto area need to be augmented as there is only one program to serve the entire region.” The government ignored that warning. Now the system is broken and Ontarians are suffering.

Will the minister admit that they failed Ontarians, ignored the warnings of imminent collapse of the system, and offer immediate relief to patients needing life-saving stem cell transplants?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: I think we owe it to the individuals and their families who may be on the wait-list to be as factual about this as we possibly can. Since that report came out, in fact, in the last four years, we’ve increased the funding for stem cell transplants in this province by 600%, and that doesn’t include the nearly $30-million investment outlined in our budget.

At Princess Margaret hospital, in the last year alone, they’ve increased the number of transplants that take place—

Interjections.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: I know opposition doesn’t want to hear the truth, but I’m telling them that they’ve increased the number of transplants taking place at Princess Margaret hospital by 25%—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. The conversations going back and forth, not even to the questioner or the person presenting the question, are disruptive. So stop, please.

You have a wrap-up, please.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: We’re also working together with Cancer Care Ontario to see how we can use the network more effectively, so if there is a pressure in one location and there’s opportunity in another—and there is opportunity in other centres—we’re making sure that we work as a network to make sure we allocate resources appropriately.

Access to information

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: My question is to the Premier. A formal investigation into the death of Mr. Andrew Loku, a 45-year-old father of five from South Sudan shot by the police last summer, was finished a month ago, but the Attorney General just read the report yesterday, more than a month later and only after increasing media scrutiny.

Given the serious concerns that members of the community have raised around systemic racism and discriminatory practices like carding, after the killing of a racialized man, you would think the minister would understand the importance of reading a report of this nature. Yet the minister found other more important things to do.

Can the Premier tell us why her minister took over a month to read this very important report?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: We recognize that there are concerns about the current process, including whether SIU reports are made public. I think that’s the essence of this question and it’s exactly why we have committed to a review. The Ministry of the Attorney General will appoint someone as soon as possible to conduct a review of the SIU, the Office of the Independent Police Review Director and the Ontario Civilian Police Commission—and I committed to that when I spoke to the Black Lives Matter folks here at Queen’s Park.

We have a responsibility to ensure that the public interest is being served, and that’s why we’ve committed to public consultations. As part of these discussions, there will be a conversation about how the information in the SIU reports should be made public, because I believe that is, as I say, the essence of the concerns around this process.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: The Attorney General’s handling of this file is simply unacceptable. It seemed as though the minister purposely avoided reading the details of this report. Given the context—that the community organized a massive, lengthy protest in front of Toronto police headquarters, that the community organized a massive rally in front of Queen’s Park, raising issues and concerns around systemic racism in this province—does the Premier really think that this is appropriate behaviour for the Attorney General of the province of Ontario?

For the sake of the public’s confidence in Ontario’s oversight of the police, it’s essential that the details around the SIU’s investigation and their handling of the evidence be made public. The Premier alluded to this; we want a firm commitment today.

My question, Mr. Speaker, is this: Will the Premier commit today to ensuring that that report is made public?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I just said that as part of the discussions, there will be a conversation about how the information in the SIU reports should be made public. I have already answered that.

It was I and my ministers who went to the front lawn and had the conversation with the Black Lives Matter protestors; we had the conversation. I acknowledge that in our society, we are still grappling with systemic racism. That’s the conversation I had with those young people who were standing on the lawn at Queen’s Park.

We’ve committed to the review. There has already been a meeting with our minister responsible for the Anti-Racism Directorate with some of the folks from the group. I am very concerned about this issue. I know it is something that we all should be taking seriously. The Ministry of the Attorney General will be appointing someone to head up the reviews as soon as possible. We will be working towards how to make the information in the SIU report public.

Ontario budget

Mr. John Fraser: My question is for the Minister of Education. Investing in schools is part of building Ontario up, an important way for the government to respond to local needs and to build contemporary learning environments for students. In the recent 2016 provincial budget, there’s a plan to invest in school capital projects, to address accommodation and building conditions.

It is really disappointing that the parties opposite voted against the plan to invest $11 billion over 10 years in our schools. Speaker, through you to the minister, can she please explain how these budget measures will help families in my riding of Ottawa South and families across Ontario?

Hon. Liz Sandals: Thank you to the member from Ottawa South for that very good question about our budget. Since 2003, our government has invested almost $14 billion in school infrastructure, which has resulted in nearly 755 new schools and more than 720 additions and renovations. As of earlier this year, approximately 200 major capital projects are either being planned or under way across Ontario.

With the $11-billion commitment to more capital grants over the next 10 years that was in our capital budget in the 2016 budget, which they all voted against, we’ll be able to provide $52 million to build two new schools in Ottawa, along with four retrofits and some additions. We’re investing $9 million to consolidate two schools into a new Greensville public school in Hamilton and we’re providing $15 million to rebuild—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Supplementary?

Mr. John Fraser: I thank the minister for that answer and we look forward to those new capital projects.

I would like to address another issue that affects families, parents and children, and that’s child care. In this year’s 2016 budget, we announced our plan to invest in the child care sector. Families across this province rely heavily on access to our child care system and are looking for more available spaces. Mr. Speaker, through you to the minister, could she please tell us how this 2016 budget is going to address those needs that, actually, both the NDP and the Progressive Conservatives voted against?

Hon. Liz Sandals: Yes. As is always the case, in our 2016 budget we continue to commit to child care, because child care provides a strong foundation for our youngest learners and we’re committed to modernizing the child care system. In fact, the number of licensed child care spaces in Ontario has grown to nearly 351,000, which is