British Columbia Hansard — 5 March 2019, p.m., Issue 215 (41st Parliament, 4th Session)

20190305pm-Hansard-n215

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Fourth Session, 41st Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES (HANSARD) Tuesday, March 5, 2019 Afternoon Sitting Issue No. 215 THE HONOURABLE DARRYL PLECAS, SPEAKER ISSN 1499-2175

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Janet Austin, OBC Fourth Session, 41st Parliament SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Darryl Plecas EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................... Hon. John Horgan Deputy Premier and Minister of Finance............................................................................................................................Hon.

Carole James Minister of Advanced Education, Skills and Training..................................................................................................... Hon. Melanie Mark Minister of Agriculture.........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Lana Popham Attorney General.................................................................................................................................................................Hon.

David Eby, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ............................................................................................................ Hon. Katrine Conroy Minister of State for Child Care...................................................................................................................................... Hon. Katrina Chen Minister of Citizens’ Services.................................................................................................................................................... Hon.

Jinny Sims Minister of Education ............................................................................................................................................................ Hon. Rob Fleming Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources ...............................................................................................Hon. Michelle Mungall Minister of Environment and Climate Change Strategy............................................................................................. Hon.

George Heyman Minister of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development ..............................................Hon. Doug Donaldson Minister of Health .....................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Adrian Dix Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation ......................................................................................................... Hon.

Scott Fraser Minister of Jobs, Trade and Technology............................................................................................................................ Hon. Bruce Ralston Minister of State for Trade...............................................................................................................................................Hon. George Chow Minister of Labour ...................................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Harry Bains Minister of Mental Health and Addictions............................................................................................................................ Hon. Judy Darcy Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing.................................................................................................................. Hon. Selina Robinson Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General ........................................................................................................... Hon.

Mike Farnworth Minister of Social Development and Poverty Reduction..............................................................................................Hon. Shane Simpson Minister of Tourism, Arts and Culture.....................................................................................................................................Hon. Lisa Beare Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure................................................................................................................ Hon.

Claire Trevena LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Official Opposition................................................................................................................................Andrew Wilkinson, QC Leader of the Third Party ....................................................................................................................................................Dr. Andrew Weaver Deputy Speaker................................................................................................................................................................................

Raj Chouhan Assistant Deputy Speaker................................................................................................................................................................... Joan Isaacs Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole ................................................................................................................

Spencer Chandra Herbert Clerk of the Legislative Assembly ....................................................................................................................................................Craig James Acting Clerk of the Legislative Assembly...............................................................................................................................

Kate Ryan-Lloyd Clerk Assistant — Committees and Interparliamentary Relations ..........................................................................................Susan Sourial Sessional Law Clerk...............................................................................................................................................Loredana Catalli-Sonier, QC Parliamentary Counsel ...................................................................................................................................................................... S.

Suzie Seo Sergeant-at-Arms ................................................................................................................................................................................. Gary Lenz Acting Sergeant-at-Arms......................................................................................................................................... Randall Ennis, MMM, CD

ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Ashton, Dan (BC Liberal) ........................................................................ Penticton Bains, Hon. Harry (NDP)...............................................................Surrey-Newton Barnett, Donna (BC Liberal) ................................................... Cariboo-Chilcotin Beare, Hon. Lisa (NDP).............................................Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Begg, Garry (NDP) ..................................................................... Surrey-Guildford Bernier, Mike (BC Liberal) .......................................................

Peace River South Bond, Shirley (BC Liberal)......................................... Prince George–Valemount Brar, Jagrup (NDP)..................................................................... Surrey-Fleetwood Cadieux, Stephanie (BC Liberal)....................................................... Surrey South Chandra Herbert, Spencer (NDP) ..................................... Vancouver–West End Chen, Hon. Katrina (NDP).....................................................Burnaby-Lougheed Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ............................................................... Burnaby-Edmonds Chow, Hon.

George (NDP)............................................... Vancouver-Fraserview Clovechok, Doug (BC Liberal) ................................ Columbia River–Revelstoke Coleman, Rich (BC Liberal) ...............................................................Langley East Conroy, Hon. Katrine (NDP)......................................................... Kootenay West Darcy, Hon.

Judy (NDP) ............................................................New Westminster Davies, Dan (BC Liberal) ..........................................................Peace River North de Jong, Michael, QC (BC Liberal) ............................................ Abbotsford West Dean, Mitzi (NDP)...............................................................Esquimalt-Metchosin D’Eith, Bob (NDP) ...............................................................Maple Ridge–Mission Dix, Hon. Adrian (NDP)......................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Donaldson, Hon.

Doug (NDP).....................................................................Stikine Eby, Hon. David, QC (NDP)............................................. Vancouver–Point Grey Elmore, Mable (NDP)....................................................... Vancouver-Kensington Farnworth, Hon. Mike (NDP) ...................................................... Port Coquitlam Fleming, Hon. Rob (NDP) .....................................................Victoria–Swan Lake Foster, Eric (BC Liberal)........................................................... Vernon-Monashee Fraser, Hon.

Scott (NDP) ................................................ Mid Island–Pacific Rim Furstenau, Sonia (BC Green Party) ........................................... Cowichan Valley Gibson, Simon (BC Liberal) ................................................. Abbotsford-Mission Glumac, Rick (NDP)........................................................Port Moody–Coquitlam Heyman, Hon. George (NDP) .............................................. Vancouver-Fairview Horgan, Hon. John (NDP) ...............................................

Langford–Juan de Fuca Hunt, Marvin (BC Liberal) .......................................................Surrey-Cloverdale Isaacs, Joan (BC Liberal) .........................................Coquitlam–Burke Mountain James, Hon. Carole (NDP)...................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Johal, Jas (BC Liberal)...............................................

Richmond-Queensborough Kahlon, Ravi (NDP)..............................................................................Delta North Kang, Anne (NDP)..................................................................Burnaby–Deer Lake Kyllo, Greg (BC Liberal)............................................................................ Shuswap Larson, Linda (BC Liberal) .............................................Boundary-Similkameen Lee, Michael (BC Liberal) ......................................................

Vancouver-Langara Leonard, Ronna-Rae (NDP) ....................................................Courtenay-Comox Letnick, Norm (BC Liberal)............................................Kelowna–Lake Country Ma, Bowinn (NDP) ................................................... North Vancouver–Lonsdale Malcolmson, Sheila (NDP) .......................................................................Nanaimo Mark, Hon. Melanie (NDP) ..................................... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Martin, John (BC Liberal)......................................................................

Chilliwack Milobar, Peter (BC Liberal).................................... Kamloops–North Thompson Morris, Mike (BC Liberal) ..........................................Prince George–Mackenzie Mungall, Hon. Michelle (NDP).................................................... Nelson-Creston Oakes, Coralee (BC Liberal) ...........................................................Cariboo North Olsen, Adam (BC Green Party)........................... Saanich North and the Islands Paton, Ian (BC Liberal)......................................................................... Delta South Plecas, Hon.

Darryl (Ind.) ..........................................................Abbotsford South Polak, Mary (BC Liberal) ............................................................................ Langley Popham, Hon. Lana (NDP)..............................................................Saanich South Ralston, Hon. Bruce (NDP) .......................................................... Surrey-Whalley Redies, Tracy (BC Liberal) ..................................................... Surrey–White Rock Reid, Linda (BC Liberal) ................................................

Richmond South Centre Rice, Jennifer (NDP) ............................................................................ North Coast Robinson, Hon. Selina (NDP) ....................................... Coquitlam-Maillardville Ross, Ellis (BC Liberal)..................................................................................Skeena Routledge, Janet (NDP) .................................................................. Burnaby North Routley, Doug (NDP) ................................................Nanaimo–North Cowichan Rustad, John (BC Liberal) ..............................................................

Nechako Lakes Shypitka, Tom (BC Liberal) .............................................................Kootenay East Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ........................................Powell River–Sunshine Coast Simpson, Hon. Shane (NDP)................................................ Vancouver-Hastings Sims, Hon.

Jinny (NDP) .............................................................Surrey-Panorama Singh, Rachna (NDP) ........................................................Surrey–Green Timbers Stewart, Ben (BC Liberal) ................................................................Kelowna West Stilwell, Michelle (BC Liberal)..............................................Parksville-Qualicum Stone, Todd (BC Liberal)........................................

Kamloops–South Thompson Sturdy, Jordan (BC Liberal).......................................West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Sullivan, Sam (BC Liberal)...............................................Vancouver–False Creek Sultan, Ralph (BC Liberal) ......................................... West Vancouver–Capilano Tegart, Jackie (BC Liberal) ................................................................ Fraser-Nicola Thomson, Steve (BC Liberal)..................................................... Kelowna-Mission Thornthwaite, Jane (BC Liberal) .............................

North Vancouver–Seymour Throness, Laurie (BC Liberal) ..................................................... Chilliwack-Kent Trevena, Hon. Claire (NDP) .............................................................. North Island Wat, Teresa (BC Liberal) ................................................Richmond North Centre Weaver, Dr. Andrew (BC Green Party) ......................... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Wilkinson, Andrew, QC (BC Liberal) .............................. Vancouver-Quilchena Y ap, John (BC Liberal)..........................................................

Richmond-Steveston LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Mission ..........................................................................Simon Gibson Abbotsford South ..................................................................... Hon. Darryl Plecas Abbotsford West .................................................................... Michael de Jong, QC Boundary-Similkameen.....................................................................

Linda Larson Burnaby–Deer Lake ...............................................................................Anne Kang Burnaby-Edmonds ..............................................................................Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Lougheed................................................................... Hon. Katrina Chen Burnaby North................................................................................

Janet Routledge Cariboo-Chilcotin ............................................................................Donna Barnett Cariboo North .................................................................................. Coralee Oakes Chilliwack.............................................................................................. John Martin Chilliwack-Kent..............................................................................Laurie Throness Columbia River–Revelstoke........................................................

Doug Clovechok Coquitlam–Burke Mountain................................................................. Joan Isaacs Coquitlam-Maillardville..................................................... Hon. Selina Robinson Courtenay-Comox ................................................................. Ronna-Rae Leonard Cowichan Valley ............................................................................

Sonia Furstenau Delta North ...........................................................................................Ravi Kahlon Delta South.................................................................................................Ian Paton Esquimalt-Metchosin.............................................................................Mitzi Dean Fraser-Nicola........................................................................................

Jackie Tegart Kamloops–North Thompson............................................................Peter Milobar Kamloops–South Thompson ................................................................Todd Stone Kelowna–Lake Country....................................................................Norm Letnick Kelowna-Mission.............................................................................

Steve Thomson Kelowna West.........................................................................................Ben Stewart Kootenay East .....................................................................................Tom Shypitka Kootenay West ...................................................................... Hon. Katrine Conroy Langford–Juan de Fuca............................................................. Hon. John Horgan Langley....................................................................................................

Mary Polak Langley East .......................................................................................Rich Coleman Maple Ridge–Mission ............................................................................ Bob D’Eith Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows ..........................................................Hon. Lisa Beare Mid Island–Pacific Rim .............................................................. Hon. Scott Fraser Nanaimo ....................................................................................

Sheila Malcolmson Nanaimo–North Cowichan.............................................................. Doug Routley Nechako Lakes ...................................................................................... John Rustad Nelson-Creston.................................................................. Hon. Michelle Mungall New Westminster ......................................................................... Hon. Judy Darcy North Coast..........................................................................................

Jennifer Rice North Island ............................................................................ Hon. Claire Trevena North Vancouver–Lonsdale ................................................................. Bowinn Ma North Vancouver–Seymour ......................................................Jane Thornthwaite Oak Bay–Gordon Head ..........................................................Dr.

Andrew Weaver Parksville-Qualicum .....................................................................Michelle Stilwell Peace River North.................................................................................. Dan Davies Peace River South ............................................................................... Mike Bernier Penticton................................................................................................ Dan Ashton Port Coquitlam .................................................................... Hon.

Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Coquitlam .....................................................................Rick Glumac Powell River–Sunshine Coast ..................................................... Nicholas Simons Prince George–Mackenzie ..................................................................Mike Morris Prince George–Valemount.................................................................

Shirley Bond Richmond North Centre ........................................................................Teresa Wat Richmond-Queensborough .......................................................................Jas Johal Richmond South Centre........................................................................ Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston..................................................................................

John Y ap Saanich North and the Islands............................................................Adam Olsen Saanich South............................................................................Hon. Lana Popham Shuswap .................................................................................................... Greg Kyllo Skeena ......................................................................................................... Ellis Ross Stikine ..................................................................................Hon.

Doug Donaldson Surrey-Cloverdale............................................................................... Marvin Hunt Surrey-Fleetwood ...................................................................................Jagrup Brar Surrey–Green Timbers ......................................................................Rachna Singh Surrey-Guildford ....................................................................................Garry Begg Surrey-Newton.............................................................................Hon.

Harry Bains Surrey-Panorama........................................................................... Hon. Jinny Sims Surrey South............................................................................... Stephanie Cadieux Surrey-Whalley........................................................................ Hon. Bruce Ralston Surrey–White Rock ............................................................................. Tracy Redies Vancouver-Fairview ............................................................ Hon.

George Heyman Vancouver–False Creek....................................................................... Sam Sullivan Vancouver-Fraserview .............................................................Hon. George Chow Vancouver-Hastings .............................................................. Hon. Shane Simpson Vancouver-Kensington ..................................................................... Mable Elmore Vancouver-Kingsway ................................................................... Hon.

Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara .............................................................................. Michael Lee Vancouver–Mount Pleasant ................................................... Hon. Melanie Mark Vancouver–Point Grey...........................................................Hon.

David Eby, QC Vancouver-Quilchena ......................................................Andrew Wilkinson, QC Vancouver–West End....................................................Spencer Chandra Herbert Vernon-Monashee...................................................................................Eric Foster Victoria–Beacon Hill ................................................................ Hon. Carole James Victoria–Swan Lake .................................................................. Hon. Rob Fleming West Vancouver–Capilano .................................................................

Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Sea to Sky ..............................................................Jordan Sturdy Party Standings: BC Liberal 42; NDP 41; BC Green Party 3; Independent 1

CONTENTS Tuesday, March 5, 2019 Afternoon Sitting Page Orders of the Day Committee of Supply .............................................................................................................................................................. 7491 Estimates: Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure Hon. C. Trevena D. Ashton J. Sturdy A. Olsen S. Bond J. Tegart D. Barnett D. Davies G. Kyllo D. Clovechok P .

Milobar Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room Committee of Supply .............................................................................................................................................................. 7513 Estimates: Ministry of Children and Family Development(continued) E. Ross Hon. K. Conroy J. Thornthwaite D. Barnett J. Rustad J. Tegart L. Throness S. Furstenau S. Bond

TUESDAY , MARCH 5, 2019 The House met at 1:32 p.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Orders of the Day Hon. M. Farnworth:In this chamber, I call estimates debate for the Ministry of Transportation and Infrastruc- ture. In Committee A,

Section A, Douglas Fir Room, I call continued estimates debate for the Ministry of Children and Families. [1:35 p.m.] Committee of Supply ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF TRANSPORTATION AND INFRASTRUCTURE The House in Committee of Supply (Section B); J. Isaacs in the chair. The committee met at 1:36 p.m. On Vote 43: ministry operations, $925,616,000. Hon. C. Trevena:If I might, before we start on the estim- ates debate — I know there’s a lot of interest and a lot of ques- tions that are going to be coming up — I would like to just talk a little bit about some of the great work that this min- istry is doing.

Last year I was talking about how, all around the province, the ministry staff work so extraordinarily hard on behalf of British Columbians to ensure that our infrastructure is working, that we have the infrastructure we need, that our highways are fixed and working and working well within communities and between communities, that we have transit working within our communities, that we have long-dis- tance bus service working. I know these are some of the issues that will be raised through the coming days of the estimates debate. They also work to ensure that we have a good relationship with B.C.

Ferries and that we have a ferry system that works for the coastal communities as well as the ferries that work in the Interior. The whole gamut of aspects that are involved in transportation, in making sure that peoples’ lives are bet- ter, are well-serviced. I can’t thank the ministry staff enough. I think that every MLA in this House knows their ministry workers in their jurisdictions, has a good relationship with them. There is an ability to have questions answered and have one of the very basic things, our constituent’s concerns, dealt with very quickly.

On a grassroots level, I’m extraordinarily proud of their work and very happy of the work they do. Going up through the ministry, it’s a great team. I will introduce my colleagues, the staff who are around me, in a moment, but I just wanted to comment on some of the things that we may be talking about during the estim- ates debate. The ministry is investing more than $5 billion in transportation improvements over the next three years under the 2019 service plan. There’s another $1.692 billion in partner contributions, which means our three-year invest- ment is $6.7 billion.

I think that people are aware that there are investment plan supports for both preservation of highways and side- road assets. We’ve got the replacement of the Pattullo Bridge on the books now, construction of the Broadway subway and continue to work on four-laning to the Alberta border. As I mentioned, we’ve got public transit investments, the trade network that is so important to British Columbia and the country to make sure that our trade networks are reliable. We’ve got Bike B.C., air access. We have just launched

an act- ive transportation consultation. We are doing many, many projects. I’m anticipating that there is going to be some interest from the opposition. I really look forward to explaining the work that our ministry has been doing on the community benefits agreement, which is a fantastic way of dealing with the skills shortage that British Columbia is facing, ensuring that young people and people who have not had access to this sort of work before — Indigenous people, women and others — will have access to high-quality training through the investment in our infra- structure.

I anticipate a lot of questions about that, and I look forward to that. [1:40 p.m.] I know that the opposition is very interested in app-based ride-hailing. We were able to pass legislation last year. After app-based ride-hailing has been around for seven years, within just over a year, our government was able to pass legislation which brought that in. I know there’s some interest in how that’s evolving. I anticipate answering ques- tions about that. Our ferry system. I know there’s a huge amount of interest on the opposition side for the coastal ferry system.

The opposition, when they were in government, created the con- struct that we now have. We are, obviously, working with that construct and had a report by Mr. Blair Redlin delivered to me last year, which we’ve been acting upon. I’m sure that there’s going to be a lot of interest in the coastal ferries. I’ve mentioned B.C. Transit in general, but I know their critic has some specific questions about B.C. Transit and long-distance bus service around the province. Last but definitely not least, the trucking sector. I anticip- ate there are going to be questions about that too.

With that, I’m going to once again thank the absolutely diligent staff around the province and use this opportunity to introduce those staff who are with me today. I know the two here, and I haven’t looked to see who’s behind me. Next to me we have Grant Main, my deputy minister. Behind him is Alan Thomas, the CFO of B.C. Transit. On my right is Nancy Bain, the assistant deputy minister for finance. 7491

Behind her are Deborah Bowman, assistant deputy minister for policy, and Andrea Mercer, who is the executive director for B.C. Transit. With that, I will take my place, in the anticipation that we have a very healthy afternoon’s debate and be able to move on with the estimates. D. Ashton:I would just like to thank the Minister of Transportation, the ministry staff, especially the ministry staff in the city of Penticton, and the contractors that did an exemplary job of rectifying a rock slide north of Sum- merland.

Again, if I could ask the minister if she would pass along the gratitude, not only on behalf of myself but all the citizens that utilize that corridor to go back and forth to work. There were some examples of where people had to detour, but again, the staff and those contractors did an incredible job during that exemplary weather that the Okanagan was facing. My hat’s off to the ministry, the minister and all those involved in that. Thank you very much, Minister. Hon. C. Trevena:I’ d like to thank the member for having that recognition. Too often staff in any ministry do their work, and they’re not recognized.

I will absolutely make sure that the thanks are passed on. I think they did do an exemplary job. Within a month of a massive landslide, they were able to make sure that road is now safe and open for use again. I thank the member for his patience and his community’s patience as that work went underway and his help in making sure that people knew what was happening. So thank you. The Chair:Sea to ski, Member. J. Sturdy:West Vancouver–Sea to Sky. The Chair:Okay, let me redo that. J. Sturdy:We do ski, but it is Sea to Sky. The Chair:The member for West Vancouver–Sea to Sky. J.

Sturdy: Thank you to the minister for her opening remarks and for having the staff. I think we will, as I men- tioned to the minister, focus largely on transit to begin with — B.C. Transit and transit around the province. I do have one question to start, and that is that historically, as we entered into a new budget cycle, the Premier would issue a new mandate letter or an updated mandate letter to the minister. Has that, in fact, been the case this session? Hon. C.

Trevena:No, the ministers did not get new man- date letters. [1:45 p.m.] We obviously have a mandate from the Premier for work that we need to be doing. We continue to work assiduously on that, making sure UNDRIP is involved in everything that we’re doing. Truth and reconciliation is there. We are work- ing to make life more affordable and accessible and work- ing on building the economy. The Crowns that are under the ministry did get mandate letters. J. Sturdy:We’re going to start off with B.C. Transit. I think I’m going to take this opportunity, as the critic, to focus a little bit on B.C.

Transit in my neck of the woods. As you know, the previous Liberal government invested significantly in the Sea to Sky, in terms of the Sea to Sky Highway improvement project. This project…. I think what it has done is it has demonstrated the value of good invest- ments — well-planned, well-thought-out and well-executed investments. It really has changed the region in many ways. I’m sure the minister has travelled the Sea to Sky, hope- fully beyond Whistler, because it does actually go all the way to Highway 97. She has indicated that she has driven all the way around, so that’s good.

She’ll understand that there are communities up and down the Sea to Sky corridor. Obvi- ously, the highway starts, essentially, in Horseshoe Bay, but Lion’s Bay is impacted, and Lion’s Bay is a community that has some concerns around how the highway impacts their community and the feel of their community. There’s development potential at Porteau Cove, which is beginning to re-emerge. Britannia Beach is a community that has a history of over 100 years and an industrial history. The province has a significant stake in it, and there has been new investment in Britannia Beach.

Hopefully, the minister has had a chance to visit the B.C. mining museum, because it is a spectacular entity. Macdonald Development has reconfigured the old town- site of Britannia Beach, which is growing rapidly. The pop- ulation is growing, and there are a number of different pro- posals for that. Squamish, just a little farther up the road, is a community that has really, I think, felt the brunt of the development on the Sea to Sky.

It is forecasted to double in population in the next 15 to 20 years and is well on track to do just that, which puts tremendous pressure on the community at a whole vari- ety of different levels. Then, of course, when we go up as far as Whistler, we’ll see that the visits in Whistler have increased dramatically. We’re over 3 million annual visits in Whistler. Then, of course, Pemberton, where I’m fortunate enough to reside…. That has changed the community. The access to that community is changing the community.

In fact, in many ways, it has changed my business and my family farm, in that now, because of that capital investment in the Sea to Sky, our farm is able to deliver fruits and vegetables to 25 or 30 restaur- ants in Vancouver on a weekly basis, without having to stay overnight. It has really changed the game. One of the areas where there is certainly very much an impact that is, in fact, globally recognized…. Other than the fact that the Sea to Sky is one of those ten highways you have 7492 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, March 5, 2019

to drive in your lifetime sort of thing is the impact that traffic and transportation has had on the region. When we look just beyond Pemberton, beyond Mount Currie, up into the Joffre Lakes, we went from seeing dozens of people a day to liter- ally 4,000 people in a single day just because of that ease of access and the quality of the infrastructure. Why I mention all of that is because I like to talk about the Sea to Sky, obviously, but beyond that, there is a recognition which wasn’t there not more than a few years ago that the capacity on that highway is not infinite.

We’re seeing cases now where there are traffic delays. There are backups. There’s a need to steward our capacity. [1:50 p.m.] Transit is one of those initiatives which has now become important to the collective. Historically, it wasn’t necessarily quite as important. There is a transit system. There is B.C. Transit, which does contribute and partner with the Lil’wat Nation, with the village of Pemberton and with the regional district, in terms of a Mount Currie, Pemberton and Whist- ler commuter — for those three local governments and First Nations contributing to a partnership with B.C. Transit.

That was the extent of regional transit in the Sea to Sky. Whistler had its own internal transit system with B.C. Transit, as does Squamish. There wasn’t historically, necessarily, the desire or the feel- ing that the time was right to invest in a regional transit ser- vice, But that has changed, and that changed a number of years ago. Our government, the previous B.C. Liberal gov- ernment, agreed with the outcomes of the B.C. Transit futures plan and agreed to participate with local govern- ments in the area to fund on the standard funding formula for regional transit services.

Since that time, obviously a change in government…. I wondered if the minister could tell us whether that’s some- thing that she has the same sort of commitment on. What is her perspective on how we move forward on transit in the Sea to Sky? Hon. C. Trevena:I thank the member for his question. We are absolutely committed to high-quality public transit throughout the province. I know that there’ll be questions later about what is happening as a replacement for Grey- hound. We moved very quickly to get B.C.

Bus North oper- ating in northern communities — from the centre of B.C. north, from Prince George north — to fill a gap that was left at really short notice. We are a government that is commit- ted to a good public transit system. Sea to Sky is obviously part of that general development of public transit. I know that all communities will benefit from the establishment of a B.C. Transit service from Pem- berton through down to Horseshoe Bay and then linking with the TransLink service. I know that B.C.

Transit has been doing extensive work in making sure that it can work smoothly, that there will be a smooth transition when it hits the TransLink area. I think that with the significant engagement they’ve been doing and the commitment from communities and our commitment, as the government of the day, to make this happen, it will be happening as soon as we can. [1:55 p.m.] On that note, I’ d just like to acknowledge that there’s a group of school students who’ve come into the Legislature. I’m not sure where they’ve come from.

What you’re watching today is the debate of the estimates of the Ministry of Transportation. We’re going to be talking about how much money, I, as the Minister of Transportation, can spend in British Columbia. On this side of the House, there is an opposition member who’s asking me questions about why we’re spending the money and how we’re spend- ing the money. This is really how the Legislature works, in action. I hope you enjoy your visit. J.

Sturdy:Well, I’m glad to hear that the minister is com- mitted to transit on the Sea to Sky, a regional transit service on the Sea to Sky, and its integration with TransLink. It would intend, in fact, to go from, just to correct the minister, Mount Currie, rather than just Pemberton. There were meetings with the regional board, the Squam- ish-Lillooet regional district that struck a transit commis- sion, or a transit committee, to develop principles around which this service would be based.

They struck an MOU, and out of that MOU, they determined that the commission model, rather than a service model of a regional district, was the model they chose to pursue. They were looking for seven members on that commis- sion: a member from Pemberton; a member from Whistler; a member from Squamish; a member from the regional dis- trict area C and the regional district area D; and two mem- bers from the local First Nations, the Squamish First Nation and the Lil’wat First Nation. Now, this MOU was adopted by all parties, and there was discussion with the minister.

In fact, I believe this group or many from this group had meetings with the minister at UBCM last year to talk about this. The feedback this group received was that what was important was that there were nominations put forward with regard to the commission, to appointments to the commission. It was awkward, obviously, because there was a municipal election in the middle of it. Not the least of which, there were some people who chose not to run that were not expected not to run. All of a sudden, there’s a whole new group of people at the table. However, they paid attention.

They rec- ognized that they needed to act as was suggested was in their interests by the ministry staff. I don’t actually know quite who was making these sug- gestions. But this was the feedback that I received — that they needed to appoint these members in order for an order- in-council to appoint these members to a commission, in order that that commission could make recommendations around funding of the service.

Then there would also likely need to be some amendments to legislation to allow for First Nations to serve on that commission, because at this point, Tuesday, March 5, 2019 British Columbia Debates 7493

I understand, it’s only local government elected officials that are allowed to serve. They did this. They struggled. They complained. They looked for extensions. That wasn’t forthcoming. They did get the recommendations for appointments put forward to the minister sometime back in November, I believe. When can they expect to have the appointments through order-in- council completed so that they can get on with their work as a commission? A. Olsen:I just wanted to take the opportunity, while the minister is preparing an answer, to indeed introduce the stu- dents.

May I seek leave to make an introduction? [2:00 p.m.] Leave granted. Introductions by Members A. Olsen:Indeed, the school group that’s here — and they may be able to nod — is from the Langley Christian element- ary school. Their teacher is Tim VanHemert. They’re a grade 5 class. There are four classes, actually, here today. Welcoming you to this chamber, the chamber that repre- sents you and your future. Everything that we do in here is with you in our minds. Thank you very much for coming and joining us today. Indeed, as the minister suggested, we’re working through Transportation estimates today.

So enjoy, and enjoy your day in Victoria. Debate Continued Hon. C. Trevena:Y es, members of the region presented me with an MOU. I think it was at UBCM last year. As the member notes, there was a civic election since then. The nominations, actually, were after the civic election, so it was post the civic election. B.C. Transit has established the B.C. Transit board, has established the commission, and we are working through the process. We are working through all the considerations.

Because of the nature of the service, the governance of the service, there are many issues that we are working through at the moment. But this government and myself, the minister, are committed to making sure that we get the B.C. Transit system working along the Sea to Sky, from Mount Currie — apologies for early on — all the way through the corridor. J. Sturdy:Could the minister, then, perhaps let us know what some of those issues are that are being worked through? [2:05 p.m.] The MOU and the local governments have nominated people to serve on that commission.

Are there some other issues that they should be aware of as to what the minister is working through and why they haven’t yet been appointed? Hon. C. Trevena:I’ve got to tell the member that there is nothing to worry about. As I say, we are absolutely commit- ted to making sure that this happens. I think that the member is also aware. He’s had many dis- cussions. He’s a former mayor of one of the communities. He knows the communities. He knows there’s a lot of transit in the area already. So he’s aware that what is being worked on is, basically, a new governance model. It will be a unique gov- ernance model.

That leads into a lot of other considerations on funding, on the business model, on the relationships with other jur- isdictions. They were mentioned earlier — about with TransLink. There are a number of issues that are still being worked through. But I can give the member my commit- ment that we are absolutely determined to make sure that this gets up and running. J. Sturdy:Could the minister describe the new govern- ance model? Hon. C. Trevena:Well, the region wants a regional transit commission, a regional model. That is what we’re working on, as the member knows. It’s not an overnight process.

As I say, we’re working on this regional transit commission that has been asked for by the region, a seven-member transit commission. [2:10 p.m.] J. Sturdy:The members in the region have let me know that it’s been suggested to them the next steps are appoint- ment through order-in-council to the commission. They would then, as official commission members, make recom- mendations around funding to…. I’m not quite sure to who, actually. I suppose it’s to the minister. Perhaps the minister could clarify that.

Then there would be some legislation, potentially, as a fallout of that, depending on what the fund- ing formula looks like. Is that accurate? Hon. C. Trevena:Y es, the member’s sequencing is correct. A request will come to our ministry — to myself, as the min- ister, and our ministry — to make the decision. Obviously, there are a number of issues at play, and we want to make sure that this can move as smoothly as possible. J.

Sturdy:When would the minister anticipate or hope — maybe stick with; can she promise, perhaps — as to when these members could be appointed so that they can get to work on their commission? [2:15 p.m.] Hon. C. Trevena:As I said to the member, we are doing due diligence. We are working as hard as we can to make sure that we get everything sequenced smoothly and in place. So we’re doing due diligence, and we’ll be taking each step as quickly as we can. We know that there is a community desire to have this up 7494 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, March 5, 2019

and running as soon as possible. I know that. I’ve talked to the communities. I know there is eagerness to have this. It’s going to service the whole corridor. It fits very nicely with CleanBC. It gets people out of their cars. It makes sure that we are getting people travelling through the corridor by bus. It makes travel affordable in an area that is not necessar- ily the most affordable, as the member knows as the repres- entative of the area. For us, as a government, it is something that really is….

It fits what we want to be doing as a government in getting people out of their cars, getting people onto public transit, reducing greenhouse gas emissions, making sure that life is affordable and that it is helping that regional economy. So once again, I give the member my assurances that we’re working as hard as we can to get things in place so that we can move ahead with this. J. Sturdy:Are there other commissions in the province that would be reflective of what is being considered for the Sea to Sky, or are there other examples in the province of commissions that would be doing essentially the same thing?

Hon. C. Trevena:I thank the member for the question. I know his eagerness, and I know the eagerness of his col- leagues who also want to ask questions. I’m trying to give the member assurances that there is absolutely nothing nefari- ous going on here. We are working as hard as we can. Directly to his question, no, there is no other commission like this one. There is one other commission in B.C., and that’s for Victoria regional transit. It’s not the same model that’s within Victoria. This is between communities. It’s a longer distance.

We want to make sure we get it right because it may become a model for other jurisdictions. As I say, I’m very committed to making sure that B.C. Transit is able to work across B.C. We’re already seeing dif- ferent B.C. Transit services. We’ve got — whether it’s the Highway 16 one that finally started after years of pressure to make sure it started — the Highway 16 service. We’ve got B.C. Bus North. We’ve got a different system in the Okanagan. We’ve got from Vernon down through to Kelow- na. And now we’ve got Sea to Sky.

We want to make sure that when we’re dealing with some- thing like this, we do get it right, so we can be looking to the future rather than trying to reinvent it every time we get the possibility of another service. J. Sturdy:Would the minister be able to describe what she anticipates the role of a commissioner to be? What areas of responsibility do they have? What types of decisions will they be able to make? [2:20 p.m.] Introductions by Members R. Coleman: This afternoon, cycling through, are four groups from the Langley Christian elementary school in my riding. It’s a great school.

I’ve been to it many times over the last 20 years. It’s always engaging to be with the students. I’ d like the House to make them all feel welcome this afternoon. Debate Continued Hon. C. Trevena:The role of the commission is set down in the B.C. Transit Act. We’re just trying to find out, really, how far back the B.C. Transit Act goes. It’s been around for at least 25 to 30 years. It’s an established act. The act gives the commission the ability — with the advice and cooperation of B.C.

Transit, obviously — to look at the routes, the rates, the levels of service, the logistics and also how to raise the local- funding portion of the cost of their service. J. Sturdy:It is interesting that it’s been around for 25 or 35 years yet not used, really. Well, you said the commission model hasn’t been used, historically, other than through the capital regional district. Interesting. Could the minister describe to us what the standard fund- ing formula with B.C. Transit for local services is and wheth- er that would differ in a regional setting? Hon. C.

Trevena:Under the traditional model, the local governments pay 53 percent, and we pay 47 percent. Those are operating and capital costs under the traditional one for each individual community, whether it’s Campbell River or Pemberton or whatever. That’s how the breakdown is. [2:25 p.m.] J. Sturdy:I understand that the local governments in the Sea to Sky are interested in a transit fuel levy. Is that some- thing the minister is considering? If so, how would that work? How does that factor into the standard model? Hon. C. Trevena:I thank the member for the question.

This is, again, one of the reasons why it’s taking a while: because yes, we are considering this. As the member knows from his own experience in local government, in the traditional model, for the community’s side, for the local administration side, it’s funded by property tax, by fares and by advertising. There has been interest in a regional fuel tax, but we are looking at all models to ensure that…. We’re still working through this. There is an interest in a fuel tax. We know that there is a lot of pressure in that region on the property-tax side, so we’re looking at this.

This will be a new model, and, as I said to the member before, we want to get it right because it is a new model. J. Sturdy:The local governments in the region have sug- gested, with the fuel tax levy that was collected, that that rev- enue would come off the local government’s share. Would you agree with that assumption? Hon. C. Trevena:This is, again, one of the reasons why we’re examining how it’s all going to fall into place. The only Tuesday, March 5, 2019 British Columbia Debates 7495

other place where there is a commission, where there is a fuel tax in the B.C. Transit system, is in Victoria, where they have a 5.5-cents-per-litre fuel tax. Under that, we as a province pay 31.7 percent, and the communities pay 68.3 percent. [2:30 p.m.] It is trying to get it right. This is part of the many things that we’re working through when we’re working through what will be a new way of doing transit within British Col- umbia that we can potentially use as a model elsewhere. J. Sturdy: Have there been any calculations done on potential revenue generated through a fuel levy in the Sea to Sky? [R.

Chouhan in the chair.] Hon. C. Trevena:Y es, it is part of the ongoing work that we’re doing. Y ou can look at roughly how much gas is sold in the region, put a figure on what you could tax it at and work out how much revenue would be generated. This is part of considerations, going back to the member’s initial questions when asking about why we have not got everything in place right away. There are many different things that need to be considered, and we do. As I have told the member before, we want to get it right. We want to get it right for the communities who are going to have the trans- it system.

As I said to the member before, they are going to have the transit system. We are committed to it. We do want to get it right so that if this comes up in other regions, we can use it as the potential model. We’re doing two things at once, but our main thing is to get this right and to make sure that we are able to move ahead with it. J. Sturdy:Well, fair enough, Minister. I think we all want to get it right. But I think that there’s also some angst amongst local government and the community, who are looking to have a service put in place.

I’m just trying to help provide clarity to those local government members and community members who are anxious. The minister earlier mentioned that there was, or maybe in passing…. She might not have actually meant it but sug- gested there was a variety of other transportation or transit options in the corridor. We can go back and checkHansard. I take it that it was not there to suggest that there was a satis- factory level of transit solutions. I did want to point out that there are services but they are limited and very specific and don’t serve the whole corridor generally. Naturally, people are anxious.

People are finding that their options have been diminished as a result of Greyhound departing the corridor, and it has caused problems for people. The regional hospital is in Squamish, and that is challenging for many people. It’s a long way to Squamish. [2:35 p.m.] Again, to go back to my previous question. Can the min- ister be specific around the calculations, in that, can she tell me how many litres of fuel are sold in the Sea to Sky in a cal- endar year? Hon. C. Trevena:Sixty million litres is the last figure we have. J. Sturdy:Sorry. Was that 60 million litres gasoline and diesel, all transportation fuels?

Hon. C. Trevena:Those are the litres sold at the gas sta- tions. We’re obviously not taking into account the electricity used in electric cars. J. Sturdy:So 60 million litres of transportation fuels. Is that inclusive of on-reserve sales? Is that counted in the number? Hon. C. Trevena:This is the latest number that we have. Staff don’t have a breakdown of that. We’ve got the basic gen- eric number for the region of 60 million litres. J. Sturdy:There are currently, I believe, transit-oriented taxes or levies on transportation fuels.

Perhaps if the min- ister could clarify what’s on those fuels in the rural parts of British Columbia — so not TransLink areas but B.C. Transit areas. Is that consistent around the province? The second part of that question is: where is that levy collected? Is it collected by the retailer, or is it collected at the distribution point through wherever the bulk sales are? Where is it collected? Hon. C. Trevena:Can I just ask the member for clarific- ation? He’s asking about the gas tax, like the price per pump when you’ve got the extra taxes of provincial carbon tax and so on.

Is that what the member is looking for — and who collects them and how they’re distributed? [2:40 p.m.] Is that the question? Sorry, I just want to make sure that we get this right. J. Sturdy:Fair enough. The reason I asked this question is…. It seems common wisdom, whether it’s accurate or not, that in Metro Vancouver or in the TransLink catchment, there is approximately a 17- or 17½-cent transit levy collec- ted.

In the non–TransLink area — for example, in the Sea to Sky — it’s understood that there is a transit fuel tax, or a fuel tax associated with transit, that is collected in the Sea to Sky that’s in the neighbourhood of three or four cents. I’m wondering. Is that accurate? Is that a number that is applicable right across the whole province? Where is that fuel collected? Is it collected through the wholesaler, or is it collected by the retailer as they sell at the pump?

Just to give it a little bit of context here, recognizing that there’s a 17½-cent fuel levy collected in the TransLink catch- ment and a much, much smaller, if at all, fuel levy collected for B.C. Transit in the rural areas, theoretically there should 7496 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, March 5, 2019

be a 13- or 14-cent difference between Squamish and Van- couver. Y ou know what? There’s not. Amazing. There’s not. Who would have thought? I’m trying to get a handle on the accuracy of those assumptions and then understand where the taxes are col- lected. Then perhaps the minister has some suggestions for me in terms of how we can provide a little more equity to the taxpayers in my region. [2:45 p.m.] Hon. C. Trevena:I wonder if we could just defer the full answer here, because we’re trying to get figures. Because it’s a tax issue, it includes the Ministry of Finance.

It might end up being a Ministry of Finance question, because we’re just working out who has responsibility for which piece. We want to make sure that, obviously, we do get it absolutely accurate. I understand what the member is saying, that his constitu- ents feel that it is absolutely unfair that they could be paying the same in downtown Vancouver for gas as they are pay- ing in Squamish or Whistler. That is much less a tax issue at the moment than the greed and ability of corporations to charge that and know that people will feel that they have to pay that because they have no option.

So the parity of costs of gas in the Sea to Sky corridor to what they’re seeing in the TransLink area has more to do with the gas companies char- ging what they feel they can get away with. On the other question of the amount of tax, I would really like to defer until we get clarity through the Ministry of Finance. J. Sturdy:Fair enough. Is there any answer in terms of where the tax is collected? Hon. C. Trevena:Again, we’ d like to get clarity from the Ministry of Finance. It might be a question best asked during Ministry of Finance estimates.

They were supposed to be before ours, but they’re coming up soon, I believe. J. Sturdy:The reason I ask you is it does tie into, ulti- mately, the decisions around what taxes would be acceptable in terms of supporting local transit. The question of on- and off-reserve sales of fuel also ties into that, so it’s an important question to answer. I’ll hand the floor over to my colleague from Saanich North and the Islands for a question around CRD appoint- ments. A.

Olsen:As I was listening to the member ask questions about the potential for a regional transit commission in his riding, it sparked in me a question that I have for the min- ister about how the — it kind of fits in with the line of questioning that he has — members of the regional transit commission for the metropolitan area of greater Victoria are selected. I note that from my riding, one of three mayors — it’s in the legislation — is selected to sit on the regional transit commission. In the past, it’s been noted that there’s been kind of a regular rotation of these mayors.

We did some investigation and were not able to figure out how it was that those mayors were selected or what the process was. Perhaps, since the member was asking about the establish- ment of a regional transit commission in his riding, I’ d just ask the minister for some clarification on how it is that the mayors of my riding, the one seat that is representative on the regional transit commission, are selected. [2:50 p.m.] Hon. C. Trevena:I thank the member. The appointments are prescribed under the act.

At the moment — and there is no formal policy that they rotate — we have: two represen- tatives from Victoria, the mayor and a councillor; one from Sooke, who is the mayor of Sooke; a mayor and a councillor from Saanich; I believe the mayor of Oak Bay; and the may- or of Colwood. It is at the minister’s discretion. The names come to the minister, and decisions are made on that. A.

Olsen:I note in the act that it is very prescriptive with respect to the mayor of Victoria; a councillor from Victoria; Esquimalt; a mayor from Saanich; a councillor from Saanich; one of the following from Sidney, North Saanich or Central Saanich; and then one of the following: a mayor of Colwood, Metchosin, Langford, View Royal, the Highlands or Sooke. I note that there are two from the Western Communities currently sitting. I’m just not sure what the mechanism is which…. I recognize that it’s not formalized in any way, that it rotates. That has been the practice.

I recognize, also, that it’s an order-in-council that formally approves these, and we were notified that the approval happened. But I’m just won- dering what the mechanism was. We were asking about this prior to the decision being made, and it was never made clear to us what the process was to determine whose name is on that. Furthermore, while I don’t have any quibbles over the fact that there is a member of…. There are two, in part (

g) of the act. I’m just wondering how that happens? It seems like a bit of a mystery, frankly. [2:55 p.m.] Hon. C. Trevena:I thank the member, and I understand the desire for clarification. Names are put forward, obviously. We have a Crown agency board resourcing office that helps ensure that we get names. They look at that and talk to people about that and come with recommendations. The concern, I understand from the member, is, poten- tially, that there are two from the Western Communities. I think this reflects, really, the growth of the Western Com- munities. Sooke is no longer a quiet backwater now.

I’m not sure whether the people of Sooke like that or don’t like that. But I think it’s very important to have them engaged in transit decisions, because we are hoping that more people are using transit from the farther west we go, rather than be driving in. Tuesday, March 5, 2019 British Columbia Debates 7497

S. Bond: Good afternoon, Minister. I appreciate the opportunity. I want to thank my colleague the critic for Transportation. We’re going to talk a little bit about buses, but it’s going to be about those that used to run across northern British Col- umbia. I do want to recognize the team of people that work in the Ministry of Transportation in northern British Col- umbia. They do an excellent job every day. They work very hard They’re very collaborative. I really appreciate the work they do on behalf of northern residents. Minister, I’m wondering if you could give us an update on B.C. Bus North.

I would like to know, specifically, what the intentions of the minister are when the contract ends in just a few short months. [3:00 p.m.] Hon. C. Trevena:I thank the member for her question. I know that she’s obviously concerned about the service to her community and communities around the north. I’ve got to say that I’m extraordinarily pleased with the success of B.C. Bus North. B.C. Transit and our ministry moved extremely swiftly when Greyhound pulled out.

With- in about six weeks, we got a service going in across the whole of northern B.C., which is really quite extraordinary, given the size of the area and the complexity of the routes and everything else. We’ve had more than 3,000 passengers in the first seven months. Just as an aside to the member, I know there were some concerns about the Prince George–Valemount section. The route has been changed, so it will be more reflective of what people really need. I’ve got to say that I’m extraordinarily pleased with what has happened so far. There was a real desire to make sure that people were not left stranded.

We did not want people to be without affordable ground transportation. That continues to be my commitment. We’re aware of the year coming to an end in June, and we are, at the moment, looking at different options. We contin- ue to engage with communities and will be engaging with communities in the coming weeks and months. We’re also working with the federal government to see the commitment that they’re providing, because we’ve got both the B.C. Bus North as well as what was there in the rest of the province when Greyhound pulled out. Actually, it’s pulling out from the whole of western Canada.

That’s when we, as a province, engaged with the federal government to get the federal gov- ernment working on what was a national issue. I am absolutely committed to making sure that people have access to safe and affordable ground transportation. B.C. Bus North has been a great success. We do continue to look at what will happen after June, when the first year comes to an end, and to make sure that we can still provide good service to people or that people can have good service. S. Bond: Well, I appreciate that.

I think there are some issues, which I will raise, with the service as it exists, although there’s been some flexibility added in the last week or few days, at least. Is the minister prepared to say today that should there not be a private sector provider that is going to run along High- way 16 — obviously, a pretty significant rural part of British Columbia — she will be prepared to continue the existing B.C. bus service beyond its one-year contract? [3:05 p.m.] Hon. C. Trevena:I just want to clarify one thing. The B.C. Bus North is more than Highway 16. The member men- tioned Highway 16.

We know that Highway 16 is a vital route for many people, and that’s why we’ve got the Highway 16 action plan, which eventually came after much pressure. It was started, it has been extraordinarily successful, and we will be committed to continuing that. My commitment to the people in the north is that…. We came very quickly last time, when Greyhound pulled out, and ensured that people were not left stranded. We are work- ing with communities. We are working with the federal gov- ernment to try and find alternatives. I want to give people the assurance that, come June, they will not be left stranded.

They were not left stranded last year, and they will not be left stranded this year. S. Bond:My constituents will be, I assume, relieved. There will still be uncertainty until we know that there has been a permanent solution put in place. We recognize that this has been an investment on behalf of the provincial government, and it was a necessary one. Y ou can imagine that for some people, it is their only method of transportation in northern British Columbia. They don’t have the option of a variety of other services.

I will certainly be keeping in touch with the minister to make sure that we understand what the process involves and what the options are that are being considered so that a ser- vice remains in place. I do have a concern about the existing service. I shared that with the minister via correspondence after meeting with a number of advocates in my community who speak on behalf of persons with disabilities. I’m sure the minister is aware that the bus service that cur- rently exists is not accessible. That is a challenge for north- ern residents. Frankly, in the day and age that we’re living in, it’s unacceptable.

We need to sort out, in whatever model of service is going to be provided across northern B.C., that it is inclusive of all residents. The minister knows that we had a situation at Christmas where B.C. Bus…. The

schedule and the companion sched- ule that run with the Northern Health bus didn’t work. In fact, we had northern residents, some with disabilities, and others who simply were trying to travel during that period of time and could not do it. Is the minister, in the work that she’s doing, looking at options or a continued B.C. Bus North or whatever it is? Has the team been made aware of the need to look at inclusive bus services, which means accessible buses? 7498 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, March 5, 2019

[3:10 p.m.] Hon. C. Trevena:Y es, I understand the member’s real urging that the vehicles be inclusive for residents. This was set up, as the member well knows, very quickly. B.C. Transit was not able to source wheelchair-accessible buses at the time. I have to say Northern Health Connections really did help out. There may have been some glitches, but they’ve changed their criteria for allowing who could be using the buses. They are accessible and allow for companions to be part of that ride. I think that was a very good move, because we want to say….

I think that, like the member, representing a rural community, we know that there aren’t options for many of our constituents. We want to make sure that they can travel safely and affordably, and that’s what we’re committed to. I also assure the member that, as we move along with decisions, we will be talking with her and her colleagues about what can be done next. The inclusivity is obviously a concern. We will be working as best to address that. S. Bond:Thanks to the minister for her response.

It’s crit- ically important — you know, when we talk about the issue of mobility, not being able to get home for Christmas or a variety of other things, back and forth. The minister is cor- rect. Northern Health Connections has played a critical role, but those schedules aren’t as well aligned as they could or may be moving into the future. I have two other questions. Again, I thank the critic for the time. I want to ask about the scheduling issues that have been raised. Again, I brought that issue as a result of con- cerns that were expressed from my constituents.

First of all, grateful, of course, that there is a service at all, but for com- munities like Valemount, for example, it was very difficult to find a way to make B.C. Bus actually work for them. Y ou’ d end up having to stay a day or longer to actually get to and from. So there were issues related to convenience. Now, I know that the

schedule has been adjusted very recently — in fact with, I think, a departure coming out of Valemount early in the morning. There have been some changes made. I am encouraged by the fact that there’s been some flexibility introduced there. I’m guess I’m wondering: what is the mechanism that the minister and her staff use to hear from local residents about what’s going to work best for them? One of the arguments that the bus company makes — for example, that Greyhound makes — is that buses are empty, and we’re not getting capa- city. Part of that is because of the scheduling issue. They rarely run.

If you expect someone to get on a bus in rural British Columbia at midnight on the side of the road, I’m thinking that utilization numbers are probably not going to be at their maximum. So it’s been encouraging to see some

schedule changes. I guess I’m wondering: does the minister have a mech- anism in place to hear feedback from local residents about what will work for them? I know that the mayors of my com- munities have spoken up. I’m encouraged that there’s been some change, but how, moving forward, will those changes be monitored to see if they actually meet the needs of residents? Otherwise, we’ll be back here in the next year’s estimates with the message that nobody used the bus.

That’s because it has to fit into the life- styles and sort of the ebb and flow of people getting to and from Prince George and other locations. [3:15 p.m.] Hon. C. Trevena:To the member, I hear what she’s say- ing about Greyhound only running at night. The stories you’ d hear about people who are stuck trying to catch a bus at four in the morning with a kid or something…. It’s just ridiculous. It’s no wonder that people didn’t want to ride Greyhound.

I think that the very fact that we have had more than 3,000 passengers in the first seven months is a testament to that, that people do want access to this service and to safe ground transportation and affordable ground transportation, if it’s provided at a time that suits regular life. To the member’s specific question on the feedback, obvi- ously, I, as minister, am talking regularly to community lead- ers. Our ministry is talking to people within the community. There is a customer service portal on the B.C. Bus North.

The very fact that we were able to change the Valemount one — I know it may seem to have taken a long while — is because of customer concerns. I think the member knows as well as anybody that it’s a huge area and, doing twice a week on two different routes, round trips, to make adjust- ments isn’t easy. B.C. Bus North is trying to be as flexible as they can when they get feedback. I’ d like to just add for the member that one of the reasons we put B.C. Bus North in place, obviously, was to meet the need of people in the north, to make sure they had that access to safe, affordable ground transportation.

But it is also an opportunity to find out what the ridership numbers are. When I talked to community leaders and I had meetings with mayors from around the north, one of the things that everybody felt they needed to know before going on to the next stage is: what is the ridership? How well used will it be? What routes really do we need? This has really provided a lot of information for that next stage, for when we are looking at how we roll out a next stage, what happens in June. We have a lot of information here that we have gathered, and we are very much listening to those who use the service. S.

Bond: My last question in this section…. I know that I’ll hopefully be getting some time at a later stage in estim- ates to talk about rural highways in my area. I do want to say that I think that the work that’s been done with the Northern Health Connections bus and B.C. Bus North is important work. I think rationalizing those ser- vices, trying to find ways to…. [3:20 p.m.] Tuesday, March 5, 2019 British Columbia Debates 7499

I have, many times, visited with the Northern Health Con- nections team and seen the service that’s provided there, and it’s exceptional. The drivers are well appreciated by the people who actually use the service. So I hope that that rela- tionship will continue and will serve northern residents the way it has since we, obviously, heard the terrible news about no bus service. I just want a simple confirmation that the Northern Health Authority, through its partnership with the ministry, is not subsidizing important health dollars. Obviously, they provide services to patients.

There are fees attached with that, and there is a grant provided to Northern Health. But I want to be sure that additional funds for that partnership arrangement are not coming from health care funds when we’re actually talking about a transportation issue. Are there discrete budget lines? I just don’t want to see an increased subsidization by Northern Health when we’re talk- ing about a transportation issue. Could the minister just give me some assurance that that’s not happening. Hon. C.

Trevena:I’ve got to thank the Minister of Health for the work he’s done — well, a lot of work around the province — on the Northern Health Connections, because he did work with them to have their criteria expanded. They will transport people based on social determinants of health, on age — just over 60 — on accessibility. B.C. Transit pays for B.C. Bus North. Ministry of Health, through Northern Health, pays for Northern Health Con- nections. I’m not sure how their budget line works, so don’t take it as read that it is through Northern Health.

But that is through the Minister of Health’s estimates — how much it would cost. It’s one service provider. It’s the same bus com- pany that’s providing buses for B.C. Bus North as for North- ern Health. The company knew the region, and I’m sure are able to bring in economies of scale. But it’s two discrete budgets — the Northern Health Connections budget and B.C. Bus North budget. J. Tegart:First off, I’ d like to start by saying thank you to your staff. We have seen nothing but good relationships with the staff in our area. As you’re aware, all the main highways go through my riding.

When highways are closed, Metro Van- couver is closed. So we’re pretty important, or so we think. [3:25 p.m.] It is a pleasure to be able to pick up a phone and arrange a meeting and ask our questions in the local office. That is unusual, because so many of the ministry offices have been closed off to us. So thank you for letting your staff do that. Transportation is a huge issue in my riding — very rural. As you’re aware, Greyhound pulling out was devastating to our area, even though the

schedule was horrendous. My first question is: has the ministry done a comprehens- ive study of which communities do not have any ground transportation available to them at this time? Hon. C. Trevena:I thank the member for the thanks to staff. I’ll make sure they hear that. As I was saying…. I’m not sure whether the member was here when I made my opening remarks. Our transportation system is essential for everyone in this province. I know everything is essential for everyone in this province, but I’m pleased that the member, herself, as well as her constituents are getting that service.

That’s what they deserve, and that’s what they should do. [3:30 p.m.] As far as the question of…. What was a simple question got into quite a lot of debate when asking have we done a provincewide assessment. So assuming that the member is meaning rail, transit service, long-haul bus and everything that is there, we haven’t. We’ve been focusing on the most recent Greyhound pul- lout — last year’s Greyhound pullout — which left us with needing to fill in the north and then when they left western Canada. Since they left western Canada, we’ve engaged with our federal counterparts and have been leading….

We co- chair a national working group. [J. Isaacs in the chair.] We’ve made sure that the federal government is extra- ordinarily aware of the needs of rural communities, that there is a huge gap for rural communities. I know that in the member’s own region, with Greyhound pulling out, at the moment, there is a gap. There are gaps right across northern and rural British Columbia that we need to be addressing.

I’m very pleased that we, as a province, are taking a lead on this and that we are co-chairing this federal working group and continue to work on ways that we can ensure that there is affordable ground transportation for people across the province. J. Tegart:Thank you for your response. The minister talks about the support for B.C. Bus North. Could you give me a figure of how many dollars go into subsidizing that service? Hon. C. Trevena:So $2 million was budgeted for. We budgeted for…. We didn’t know, at the stage when we were setting this up very quickly, what the ridership was going to be and the uptake.

The budget was $2 million. We can break that down to the exact where we are today, if wished. But that was the amount earmarked. J. Tegart:Thank you to the minister. Are all those dollars provincial, or is there a federal-provincial partnership in those dollars? Hon. C. Trevena:They are provincial dollars. This was, as I was mentioning to the member’s colleague and to…. I’ve got to say, I’m very proud of B.C. Bus North. It came in so quickly. It was dealing with an immediate emergency of 7500 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, March 5, 2019

Greyhound saying: “We’re going in a few weeks. ” We needed to get the service up and running. That’s why we worked with B.C. Transit to get a B.C. Transit service working in the north, something that was out of B.C. Transit’s usual business model, out of its usual deliv- ery model. It was a very quick response. Within six weeks of making the decision, B.C. Transit buses were up with a

schedule and stops and ready to go. It was a very quick response, and it has proven to be a very good response to an immediate need. J. Tegart:Are there any federal dollars available to assist in hard-to-service rural bus routes? [3:35 p.m.] Hon. C. Trevena:Y es, the federal government has said that they will be offering a subsidy. We are working very closely with the federal government on how we’re going to fill the gaps, both in our province and across western Canada, to ensure people have that transportation — and also, obviously, on subsidy as it applies to British Columbia.

I think the member is well aware that a number of private companies came up and were able to fill the gaps that were left by Greyhound or fill some of the routes that Greyhound had vacated. After that, there were a number of areas that were still uncovered, at which point we, as a ministry, put out a request for expressions of interest. We got four companies that could fill those gaps. Staff are working on the next steps in how that will roll out. J. Tegart:Thank you to the minister. I guess when I look at B.C.

Bus North and I look that we’ve invested $2 million and we’ve had 3,000 passengers, it’s pretty clear that for pub- lic transportation in rural B.C. to be successful, we’re going to need to subsidize it.

I don’t know how a business could get a return on investment running a bus route with those num- bers, unless I’m off base. [3:40 p.m.] When we look at southern B.C., and I look at my riding in particular, which includes the Fraser Canyon, which has been devastated by the Coquihalla, and I look at some of the communities which are desperate for ground transport- ation, I’m not sure that the number of people who live in the canyon would be able to make it — a profit — to run a bus down the Fraser Canyon.

When we talk about the discussions with the federal gov- ernment, I certainly have had a constituent in my area look- ing at providing service — and very, very excited about that. But with the announcement that there are discussions with the federal government, how do you put in a request for pro- posals when you don’t know what the dollars are? That’s the challenge. If there is discussion about subsidy, then if I were a busi- ness person, I would be waiting to see what those numbers are so that I could put my business plan together and be as successful and sustainable as I could be.

The difficulty is that because we don’t know what the numbers are, and they’re not out there, how do you put your proposal in? When do you think that we will know what the federal dollars are? [3:45 p.m.] Hon. C. Trevena:I can answer it this way. When Grey- hound pulled out, we went to the Passenger Transportation Board and worked with them — as the member knows, they are the organization that gives the licences to bus operat- ors in this province, as well as taxis and other operators — and asked them to fast-track an application.

Because we knew that there was going to be vast swaths of the province without bus transportation, and that was not acceptable. The Passenger Transportation Board agreed, and we got quite a number of applicants coming through who wanted to operate a bus service. At the time, this was all done on a commercial basis, this whole application fast-tracking. Every applicant who applied was applying to run a bus service on a commercial basis, independently. The Passenger Transport- ation Board is still getting applicants through, who want to operate service for a long-distance bus in British Columbia.

Just last week there was an application for a company that wants to run a bus from Surrey to Prince George. It was pos- ted at the Passenger Transportation Board. These were all ones that wanted to work on a commercial basis. That left us with…. We could look at the map. After the first round of fast-track went through, we could see where this service was that would be able to operate on a commercial basis, and where it wasn’t. The majority of routes that Greyhound pulled out of in the last round…. I know that they’ d been, like, death by a thou- sand cuts.

They’ d been pulling out from Highway 3 and oth- er areas for some time. In the majority of areas where Grey- hound pulled out of, there was coverage. Where there wasn’t coverage is where we put out a request for expressions of interest from those providers who felt they might be able to provide some service there. As I mentioned to my previous question, we’re still work- ing on the next steps of that, with the RFP , at the same time as working with the federal government on their com- mitment, and what their public commitment translates into, basically, in dollar amounts. We are on the phone daily with them.

This is in addition to our continued work with the federal government on how we can look at ensuring that across western Canada, communities do have access to safe and affordable transportation, with the loss of interprovin- cial transportation companies such as Greyhound. J. Tegart:I guess one of the things that those of us who live in rural areas talk about a lot is how many people live in our communities without vehicles. It’s a challenge, not only for the long-distance bus routes, etc., but also locally. When we talk about ride-sharing, it is not just an urban issue.

We see it as a possibility, in our small communities, to not have to buy buses and to actually provide oppor- Tuesday, March 5, 2019 British Columbia Debates 7501

tunities in our small communities for ride-hailing. I’ll just make that comment. [3:50 p.m.] The other thing, while I have the floor. It was interesting to listen to the critic talk about the capacity issues on the Sea to Sky. I’ d love to talk about capacity issues up the Fraser Canyon, because there’s endless capacity. I call it the forgotten highway. I want to just put it on the record that I’ve made the Fraser Canyon my project this year. I’m giv- ing you lots of notice. I drive the Fraser Canyon every week.

When I drive the Duffey, out the Sea to Sky, and I see all the signage, all the pullouts, all the opportunity for people to hike…. We have all that without signage, without pullouts, without a highway that’s overly well maintained and with very little traffic. So if you want to come up and visit for a day, it’s a great place to come. I’m wondering…. I don’t know if this is the time or if the minister could answer it when other staff are here. I’m look- ing for dollars around signage, around pullouts and around maintenance in the Fraser Canyon so that we can start to bring that highway back to life.

It is a wonderful opportunity for people who live in Metro Vancouver to do day trips. So when that member’s…. When West Vancouver–Sea to Sky has overcapacity issues, we have another route that we can invite people to take. I’m not sure if this is the time that the minister could make some comments on what my constituents can do and can expect in the budget around the Fraser Canyon, but at some point during the estimates, it would be wonderful if we could get some response to that. Hon. C. Trevena:Thank you to the member and to the member for sea to ski. It’s going to stay. I’m sorry. It’s going to stay.

Are we moving off transit? We can get other staff. Other- wise, I can give the member a very high-level response. Obviously, we will have the opportunity…. We’ll have our highways folks in later on in the estimates process, and I think it’s worth having a greater discussion. I have to say I think there are lots of people in rural British Columbia, and I count myself among them, who are very aware of transportation issues — of people who don’t have cars, people who are too old to drive, who are trying to find a way without bus service and how you make a community work without that. I’m very aware of those issues.

I’m also aware of the amount of money that went into the Sea to Sky. It’s a lovely road — a decision made before the 2010 Olympics by a previous government. I’m not going to get into all of that at the moment. The need to be able to invest in our highways to make them safe and make them…. Really, when you talk about pullouts, yes, there are the tourism opportunities, and yes, there’s all the hiking and everything, but for me, it’s an issue of safety, ensuring that people have a place to rest, a place for trucks that need to pull out.

Y es, those sorts of issues continue to be a priority for me and for the ministry. When we have our highway section, if you want to connect with your critic about when we’re doing the highway section, I’ d be happy to go into more details about specific highways in the member’s riding. J. Tegart:Just one more. My apologies to the critic. I’m very pleased to see the ten-mile slide still in the budget and look forward to the completion of that project. Thank you very much for your candour today. D. Barnett:As you know, I have questioned before about how we have no transportation.

There is a licence that was held up, and it was supposed to be by the 21st of November, according to the Passenger Transportation Board. There were supposed to be two buses en route. There were no buses en route, so the licence is extended again and again. Now I hear on the radio it’s been extended again, until the 8th of March. We have had no transportation from Williams Lake, from Anahim Lake, all the way through my colleague behind me who just spoke’s riding. [3:55 p.m.] Minister, this is unacceptable.

When Greyhound gave their notice, your ministry said you were working on this; you would work with communities. There has been no dia- logue. There has been nothing throughout my whole region. I have senior citizens who can’t get anywhere. I’ve sent you a package of letters this big last week. When are we going to be able to have this licence available — I see somebody else has now put in an application — so that we can get our people moving to doctors, to schools, to families, to places they need to go? This is an emergency. We have absolutely nothing. When can we expect the ministry to move forward with this?

Hon. C. Trevena:Thank you very much for the question. I think the member is well aware that Greyhound, over the last number of years, started pulling back service in some of the routes that the member is talking about — earlier withdraw- als of service previous to our government. As soon as we had the loss of Greyhound service under our government, we acted immediately. Our initial loss was all of the northern routes, where we brought in B.C. Bus North as an immediate response.

For those routes south of Prince George, where Greyhound pulled out in this latest round — as I say, they were pulling out from the early…. I’m not even going to cite when they started pulling back, but it was definitely before we formed government. When we formed government, we made sure that we could fast-track applications. We could see where Grey- hound was pulling out from the whole of western Canada. They made their announcement in the summer of last year, 2018. We fast-tracked applications through the Passenger Transportation Board.

As the member well knows, the Pas- senger Transportation Board is the organization that deals 7502 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, March 5, 2019

with…. It’s an arm’s-length tribunal that deals with applica- tions for licences, whether it’s buses or taxis or…. It will be the organization that deals with app-based ride-hailing. The Passenger Transportation Board had the ability to fast-track applications.

They got a number of applications to fill the services that Greyhound had pulled out of at that stage. [4:00 p.m.] When we realized they hadn’t got enough to cover all the routes that Greyhound had pulled out of in 2018, when they pulled out of western Canada, we did a request for expres- sions of interest to get other applicants who might be able to operate on some of these routes. We’ve had, since then, four other applicants. We still have applicants coming through who want to operate on a com- mercial basis.

The Passenger Transportation Board is still dealing with companies that want to operate on a commer- cial basis through some of the interior of B.C. We are working as assiduously as we can to ensure cover- age. I am very concerned when people do not have access to safe and affordable ground transportation. Some of these are historic cuts that we, as a government of 17 or 18 months, would still try to be covering. What we are definitely trying to cover are those cuts that came under our watch, as gov- ernment, when Greyhound pulled out from western Canada.

Just as an aside, I do know that some of the members, elec- ted officials, held a meeting — it must be about ten months ago now — in Prince George. I know there were some repre- sentatives from the member’s constituency that came to that meeting to discuss long-distance ground transportation. D. Barnett:Minister, the issue, in a nutshell, is we lost Greyhound at the end of September of 2018. Prior to that, we had adequate service for our communities. My issue is the fact that the transportation board took an application. There was an obligation to be on the road by the 21st of November.

That obligation was not met. Therefore, that licence was extended, extended, extended, so nobody else would put in an application. I have been in contact with them. We still have no service. We now have a very dangerous situation. We have a hos- pital with no nurses. We have no transportation for these mothers to go to Kamloops or to go to Prince George early so they can go and have their babies. We have a serious situation here. When will we get some assistance?

When will a licence be given to somebody who has a bus, who has a service, who is willing to provide it throughout the region so that my constituents can be safe and move on with their lives? Hon. C. Trevena:I understand the member’s frustration. We are just checking — the reason it took a little while to come back — what Interior Health has to offer. They obvi- ously have their bus, but it is limited. I’m aware of that now. As I say, I do understand the member’s frustration. The Passenger Transportation Board is independent. They have decided to extend the requirements on their licence.

We now have until this Friday, the eighth. [4:05 p.m.] I know that the member…. I, myself, hope that we do get resolution, because there is, obviously, huge concern. I’ll continue to watch. But the Passenger Transportation Board is an independent body that has issued a licence and has issued an extension to these licences. D. Barnett:Minister, I do know that the Passenger Trans- portation Board is a separate entity. I also have been around for a few days, and I do know the minister can make changes if they so choose. Changes need to be made. We are in des- peration.

We thought maybe we’ d have ride-sharing, and that would’ve been at least something. We have no taxis. We have nothing. Fortunately, we have the Northern Health bus. But that is one that basically comes through and picks up people and takes them for health care meetings, if they meet the time the bus is coming through. This is a very serious situation, and I cannot tell you how serious it is and how upset and frustrated people are. We’re trying to encourage people to live in rural British Columbia, and every time we take a step forward, we seem to take a step backwards. I’ll wait till Friday and see what happens.

I do know there are other companies waiting, have been waiting since November 21. But the licence keeps getting extended. These companies have told me they will not put an application in and go into a bidding war with somebody. Nobody should be able to hold a licence up, Minister. We’ll leave it at that and see what happens. I do know that if there’s help in northern British Colum- bia, why is there no help in other rural communities in Brit- ish Columbia? We had the same situation that they’ve got. My riding backs onto my colleague’s behind me, and we all have no service whatsoever.

I’ll leave that there, but I do have another question or two. My question is: the funding for Highway 16 — what dollars and cents go into that highway passenger service project? [4:10 p.m.] Hon. C. Trevena: Again, this is something I’m very pleased that I’m able to talk about, because for a number of years after the former Attorney General, Mr. Oppal, pres- ented his report, there was absolute inaction from the then government on Highway 16. Eventually, after much pressure from my colleague on this side…. Well, we were then on that side of the House.

But my colleague from the North Coast, among them, really pushed to make sure that there was actually service on Highway 16. We now have it, and we are fully committed to it. It has been, over the number of years for the five-part plan, because of the vulnerability there…. That includes transit, transit shelters, community buses, as well as driver’s education. Over the life of the project so far, it’s been $8.1 million. That is a cost-share between the communities as Tuesday, March 5, 2019 British Columbia Debates 7503

well as the province, with the province providing capital funding. D. Barnett:What portion of that is the province, for the funding of the $8.1 million? Hon. C. Trevena:The province is paying for this. It was started by the previous government, after much pressure, as I say, from my colleague the member for the North Coast, who put a lot of pressure on the previous government, who failed to enact the actions of the Oppal Commission. Finally, government acted and the provincial government is doing the right thing.

Our government continues to ensure that people on that very vulnerable stretch of highway have access to safe and absolutely affordable ground trans- portation. I think that everybody knows the history of High- way 16 and the importance of investing to make sure that people are safe travelling on that highway. D. Barnett:It was my misunderstanding. The question was: is the $8.1 million all by the province? Because I thought I heard you say that the communities were particip- ating in it also. Hon. C. Trevena:Apologies to the member. Y es, the $8.1 million is provincial.

That’s our portion that has been budgeted for over the years, up to now. Approximately $800,000 for this year. D. Barnett:Thank you, Minister, for answering the ques- tions. I, too, would like to say the staff of the Ministry of Highways is one of the agencies that is very cooperative with all communities, with local governments, with MLAs. Most of the ministries are shut off from our MLAs, as my colleague has said, and to our staff. So we really sincerely appreciate your openness and transparency. D. Davies:I’ve just got a couple of questions.

I want to thank the critic for allowing me the opportunity to ask some questions. I also want to start out by thanking the minister and thanking the ministry staff for the time today, as well as the ministry staff around the province for MOT. Katherine Styba up in Peace River does a fantastic job for all of you. Certainly have a good dialogue with her and myself. I also wanted to thank MOTI for the work — I did this earlier — getting access to Old Fort. Of course, there was the devastating slide up there which closed off the whole community. So I want to thank the ministry.

The residents certainly thank you for getting access in a fairly reasonable time into that community once it was deemed safe. I want to thank the minister for that. I also want to thank Y ellowhead Road and Bridge, YRB, which, of course, is no longer the contractor moving for- ward. It’s Interior Roads. I want to thank YRB for their many years of incredible road maintenance that they provided to the North Peace. I look forward to working with Interior Roads as they move. Minister, my question is around bus service again in the north. I know we have B.C. Bus as a temporary measure. It seems to be working decently.

It wasn’t scheduled as well as, of course, Greyhound was. But it is something for the time being. [4:15 p.m.] My question is, though: what is the long-term plan? I understand that we’re looking for contractors. Is there any- thing? Have we got any contractors that are lined up, kicking the door down, trying to get into this market? Hon. C. Trevena: Again, I thank the member for his recognition of ministry staff. They do work extraordinarily hard.

Really, whether it is in the day-to-day running of oper- ations or it’s in an emergency, such as the slide in the mem- ber’s own constituency, they are there all the time, working for the community. It’s their community too. Likewise with the road maintenance contractors. People love complaining, except that it is your neighbour who is running the plow or whatever. These are our neighbours. They are our colleagues. It’s nice that they have the recogni- tion. I thank the member for giving them the recognition. B.C. Bus North.

I had a bit of a conversation about it with the member’s colleague from Prince George– Valemount. It is something I’m extraordinarily proud of, extraordinarily proud that B.C. Transit and the ministry were able to get this up and running so quickly when Greyhound pulled out. B.C. Transit got it operating within about six weeks of having decided to move with it. We now have, in seven months, seen more than 3,000 passengers using it, so it has been successful. I think the member knows it’s very affordable: $35 or $45 for a ticket.

I think one of the reasons for its success — as well as, obviously, the cost — is the fact that it’s operating in the hours that people want to travel. It’s largely operat- ing through the daytime. People don’t have to wait around at four in the morning in the cold, by a gas station, hoping that the Greyhound is going to pull in for them. So I think that it has been a big success. We now are, obviously, looking at next stages. This was put in very much as an emergency solution to a very worrying problem.

When we put it in, I had many conversations with the mayors of the region and elected officials of the region and continue to do so. It was agreed that this was going to be an opportunity to really assess what the need was, what did and what didn’t work. We’re still looking at that. We’re still sort of gathering that information. Obviously, we have a few months to get to the next steps, but we are working. It’s very much in our sightline that June is the anniversary of the start of B.C. Bus North.

It is when people are anticipating something else to happen, and we are working assiduously to see where we can go in the next stages. 7504 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, March 5, 2019

D. Davies: Thanks, Minister, for that. From what I understand, then, we’re still in the assessment stage, look- ing, gathering information. My only worry is that around B.C., we’re kind of seeing piecemeal deals happening. I guess the people of Peace River North, certainly up in Fort Nelson and those remote areas…. They need that access to come to Fort St. John and have a baby or even just access specialists at the hospital. I get a lot of questions when I do travel up to Fort Nelson. “What is the long term?

Are we going to be able to rely on some sort of bus service?” I guess the question back…. [4:20 p.m.] It sounds like maybe around June — I’m not sure if that’s what you were saying — we could be looking at an announcement of some sort, moving forward. Is that what I understand? If not, what would be a date for something like that? Hon. C. Trevena:There are a number of things at play at the moment. We’ve got B.C. Bus North and what happens in the north for bus service, which is, absolutely, on an immedi- ate agenda.

In fact, I think all ground transportation is on an immediate agenda, but this is an immediate agenda because we’ve been running for about seven months. The contract was for a year. We’re hoping that we are in a stage, sooner rather than later, to be able to move on to a next stage. There is a desire to have…. Are we going to still have B.C. Bus North? Are we going to have a different service? The member for Prince George–Valemount asked a similar question. It’s something that we are still working assiduously on — what the next stage is, what the next steps are.

We’re talking to local communities about that, as well as working through what we have. The gaps in service. We call them the gaps, the areas where we had coverage for former Greyhound routes. I know that when we put out the request for expressions of interest at the end of last year, one that came back was for Fort Nelson up to Watson Lake, to provide a service up there — that section. I know it’s not the other way around, but there is clearly an interest there. We are also working with the federal government.

We are co-chairing a committee with the federal government to look at, effectively, ground transportation, rural transporta- tion across western Canada. I think the fact of Greyhound’s withdrawal alerted our federal counterparts that the interprovincial bus service was no longer in existence and we needed to do something. It didn’t all rest on us as a province. We are the province that has the largest amount of ground transportation routes, fol- lowed by Alberta. It doesn’t rest on the two most westerly provinces; it is a federal issue. So we continue to work on that and co-chair that group.

We’re looking at a different group of answers to try and deal with the same problem, which is ground transportation in the north and across the whole of B.C. This continues to be…. At the moment, it’s an evolving solution, but I hope that soon it will be an integrated solution. G. Kyllo:I would like to give thanks to our Transportation critic, my colleague, the member for West Vancouver–Sea to Sky, for an opportunity for myself and some of my colleagues to pose some questions to the Transportation Minister.

As the MLA for Shuswap, some of the rural communities have significant transportation challenges, and I just wanted to highlight for the minister the fact that some of our com- munities, actually, are not serviced by Greyhound now, obvi- ously, and are not serviced by B.C. Transit either. So for small communities like Malakwa, Sicamous, Grin- drod, Enderby, Falkland, Sorrento and the entire North Shuswap, there is no public transit that’s provided currently. Residents, clearly, relied heavily on Greyhound.

I think, for the most part, Greyhound provided a great service that was of significant benefit to the rural parts of Shuswap in provid- ing consistent and convenient access to points around B.C. and into neighbouring provinces. [4:25 p.m.] The Greyhound bus service provided a minimum of two buses a day, and during the holiday seasons and summer months, they provided three buses a day that actually came through the Shuswap.

In talking to some of the previous operators of the Salmon Arm depot, they indicated that it was not uncommon for 20 or 30 passengers, on average, to be making the stop, actually getting on or off the bus in points like Salmon Arm. Their estimates were that about 100 to 150 passengers per day were actually utilizing the service through the Shuswap. So there is a significant demand and significant utilization of that service.

The question that I have for the minister is: what due dili- gence was undertaken by the B.C. transportation authority in granting a permit to a company called Rider Express that is now providing limited service in Shuswap? Hon. C. Trevena:Thank you for the question. The deci- sions on that were made by the Passenger Transportation Board, which is an independent tribunal. It is not a decision by the ministry. G.

Kyllo:Did the minister not believe that there was importance to ensure that there was rigour applied in deter- mining who would be actually provided with these licences to provide bus services for communities where Greyhound had pulled out? [4:30 p.m.] [R. Chouhan in the chair.] Hon. C. Trevena:I’ll provide the answer and then beg the indulgence so we can have a ten-minute recess, according to the critic. But I’ll give the member an answer now and provide him more fodder for his next question. A couple of things. I’m quite concerned that…. The mem- Tuesday, March 5, 2019 British Columbia Debates 7505

ber clearly appreciated the role of the long-distance bus ser- vice in his constituency, in his communities, but I did want to underline that he does have B.C. Transit service. There is Shuswap regional transit that operates in the member’s con- stituency. I’ve got to say I’m…. It’s one of the things that one learns when one becomes a minister — the breadth and depth of the role of government and government Crown corpora- tions. B.C. Transit does an amazing, amazing job, I think, unlike any other province — to have a transit system like we do. It’s in 130 communities.

Really, in small communities, in larger communities, there is this network. I was talking to the critic, the member for West Vancou- ver–Sea to Sky, earlier on today about the possibilities of regional transit and how we can grow different transit sys- tems. So I’m really pleased to say that we do have B.C. Trans- it, and while the withdrawal of Greyhound obviously was hugely impactful for our province, we didn’t suffer quite as badly, although I know that the people who used Greyhound felt that they suffered. In comparison to some provinces, we didn’t suffer as badly because we had B.C. Transit.

I know that doesn’t deal with the long haul, but it is there, and it is growing regionally. To the member’s question about specifics on the applic- ation for taking over one of the Greyhound routes…. As I mentioned to the member, it’s the Passenger Transportation Board that makes the decision, and it is following very clear guidelines in the Passenger Transportation Act. They have to ensure that the applicant passes what’s really described as a three-point test. That means that they are fit and proper to provide the service, that there is an econom- ic need and that there is a sound business backing for it.

So we’re looking at issues such as: that they are fit and proper, that they have the financing and the capital, that they’ve got a good reputation. The board looks at the economic need, assesses the need in the region for the service and, obviously, the sound economic and business case. It looks at that. The Passenger Transportation Board operates in a very transparent manner. They do due diligence. They post applications and decisions on their website.

When they’re posting applications, they take in letters of, I guess, support and letters of concern and, as an independent tribunal, make the decisions on the service, whether it be a bus service, a taxi service or soon to be an app-based ride-hailing service. They make those decisions independently and independent of this ministry. With that, Mr. Chair, if I might ask that we recess for ten minutes. Would that be okay? The Chair:The House will be in recess for ten minutes. The committee recessed from 4:34 p.m. to 4:50 p.m. [R.

Chouhan in the chair.] Chair:We’ll continue with the estimates for the Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure. G. Kyllo:Minister, thank you very much for the response. What I heard is that it was clearly the Passenger Transport- ation Board that vetted all applications. Y ou indicated that there was a three-point test, which included due diligence to determine the business case that the actual service provider was fit to actually provide the services, the economic need, as well as business backing.

Did the minister have any direct conversations — I guess either conversations directly or through senior staff — with the Passenger Transportation Board to evaluate, I guess, or to have a look and give consideration to the evaluation cri- teria by which companies would be vetted and potentially granted licence to take over from the services that were retracted from Greyhound? The Chair:Minister. Hon. C. Trevena: Thank you, Chair. I appreciate the break. Y es, the ministry wrote a letter about expediting applica- tions. That was the only contact the ministry had with the Passenger Transportation Board.

The Passenger Transporta- tion Board works independently as an independent tribunal. G. Kyllo:So if I understand correctly, although we have certainly heard the minister talk about the concern for the replacement of bus service for rural communities largely or negatively impacted by the retraction of services by Grey- hound….

If the minister could provide some further clarification that there was no direct contact with the ministry to provide any direction to the Passenger Transportation Board, with respect to ensuring that the review and the vetting of those applications clearly took into consideration the need for those companies to have the financial ability to actually meet the service provision by which they made application and made a commitment through the application process? Hon. C. Trevena:The board is completely independent. The board has its own staff that looks at applications. The board applies the three-part test.

But it has nothing to do with the ministry. [4:55 p.m.] G. Kyllo:So let me get this straight.

Although the minister acknowledged the negative impact that the retraction of Greyhound service was having on rural communities, even though she expressed grave concerns about the continuation of service, largely for rural communities around the province, the minister did not avail herself of, I guess, or have conversations directly with the Passenger Transporta- tion Board to, I guess, instill upon them the importance of ensuring that the applications were thoroughly vetted, such 7506 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, March 5, 2019

that those that were going to be provided the opportunity to provide services to replace the services that were retracted from Greyhound actually had the financial ability and the commitment to ensure that they were providing the services that they had set forth in their applications to the Passenger Transportation Board. Hon. C. Trevena:I mean, obviously, yes, I was absolutely concerned about Greyhound pulling out and leaving people stranded, and I still am very alive to the situation. The urgency of the matter did mean that we wrote a letter to the board asking to expedite their process.

But to remind the member, Greyhound had to apply to the board. The board did consultations, very thorough consulta- tions. They went out and had hearings around the province. They then accepted Greyhound’s decision to pull out and allowed Greyhound to pull out. They did tell Greyhound they had to wait three months to pull out. At that stage, they were then going to be fast-tracking applications. That was, I believe, partly as a result of our letter, but also the board was aware, from the hearings, of the urgency.

Then the board, as I’ve mentioned to the member before, used its three-part test on assessing any applicant that was wanting to cover the service. As part of the test, people have the opportunity to either support an application or to oppose an application, to raise concerns on an application. The board, as an independent body, applied the tests, came up with the results that we have seen coming out across the province, translated into the service that we do have in certain areas. I know there’s concern in the service we don’t have in other areas. G.

Kyllo:So the minister acknowledges that the direc- tion provided from the ministry to the Passenger Trans- portation Board was for them to expedite the processing of applications. [5:00 p.m.] Can the minister elaborate if there was any consideration given to the level of service that was being provided by the different applicants in vetting and coming to a final determ- ination before granting such licence? Hon. C. Trevena:That’s a decision by the independent Passenger Transportation Board. G.

Kyllo:The minister felt, I guess, incumbent on provid- ing direction to the Passenger Transportation Board to ensure that applications were expedited but did not have any concern with respect to the service level that was being provided. The communities that I represent definitely are negatively impacted by the withdrawal of a very robust service that was previously provided by Greyhound. The Passenger Trans- portation Board, in vetting applicants to provide what we hoped would be a full replacement service….

It’s my under- standing, if the minister can just clarify one more time for the record, that there was no direction provided by the Min- ister of Transportation or any concerns expressed to ensure that the Passenger Transportation Board took into consider- ation the level of service that would be provided by applic- ants in their vetting process. [5:05 p.m.] Hon. C. Trevena:I reiterate that it is a decision of the independent Passenger Transportation Board, the tri- bunal, to decide on the applications.

Part of their criteria when they posted for the expedited service was that they highlighted the fact that the applicant had to be fit to provide this service, but the applicant is the one that sug- gested or applied for a certain level of service as part of the application, as it would do. It is up to the Passenger Transportation Board, which I again say works without our hands on it, as an independent tribunal. They went through the applications and decided the appropriate ones. G. Kyllo:Thank you for that response. Well, here’s what we do know.

Rider Express made an ini- tial service commitment of 14 trips per week between Cal- gary and Vancouver. For the period November 1 to Novem- ber 3, the commitment was actually honoured, with two buses a day coming through the Shuswap. However, November 4 to 5, service was not provided for two days, citing bus breakdowns and service issues. From November 6 onward, the service changed to just two trips per week: Fridays leaving Calgary at 8 a.m. through to Van- couver and then coming back on Sundays, leaving, again, Vancouver at 8 a.m. and ending up in Calgary.

On Novem- ber 29, the service was adjusted yet again — these changes were totally at the whim of Rider Express — dropping the service down to one trip per week. Their application and commitment to the Passenger Transportation Board was for 14 trips per week between Vancouver and Calgary. As of November 29, that service reduction is down to one trip per week. There’s no coordina- tion with other service providers in the province. Does the minister feel that an application by a company that sets out a specific service requirement or a service standard that they’re going to actually provi

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	20190305pm-Hansard-n215
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	20190305pm Hansard n215
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	547e947502774fae7309c96367f89605194e4e26

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