New Brunswick Hansard — content house business 58 3 qp transcripts 4170426.ang

content house business 58 3 qp transcripts 4170426.ang

New Brunswick — Debates (Hansard)

Original by Hansard Office Translation by Debates Translation Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick Oral Questions April 26, 2017 [Original] Property Tax Mr. Higgs: Yesterday, the Premier made a lot of references to 2015. The Premier repeatedly referenced 2015 as being the date that he was... Maybe it was when he was originally briefed on the new assessment system. We are not sure, but I would like to know more details about 2015. We know that there was plenty going on later in that year.

No matter when he was first briefed, will the Premier advise the House on what the cost of the new assessment system was forecasted to be in 2015, when he was originally briefed? What was the cost before it was originally planned to be rolled out in four years versus the fast track? What was the original budget for the three-year rollout of this program? Thank you. [Translation] Hon. Mr.

Gallant: As I mentioned several times yesterday, with regard to the timeline that Service New Brunswick officials had to do their work, the Premier’s Office did in fact say that they could go ahead with the timeline they had presented. This was based on the recommendation made to them to make sure sufficient resources were available to do the work according to the timelines that were set. The other recommendation that was also made by the Premier’s Office was to hold a briefing session for the media to explain the process and demonstrate how it works.

Of course, a business case was required to justify this timeline. We are well aware that property assessment here in New Brunswick is problematic, and we will solve these problems. [Original] Mr. Higgs: The same as yesterday, I am keeping track of the answers given. At this point, there have been zero answers given. Yesterday, I think 17 questions were asked. At this stage, of course, we are starting off as we did yesterday. You have to wonder what the purpose of this exercise is. The question was: What was the original budget for the three-year rollout of this program?

Is that what was presented in 2015, which the Premier so often referenced yesterday? He referenced that he was made aware of the program. He referenced it here and kind of made an insinuation that it was based on the original program, for which he may have been talking about a four-year rollout. What was that budget on the original three- to four-year rollout? Was it in the 2015 time frame that he learned of the program and learned of the budget? Was that when it was given? What was the budget? That is the question. I am going back for an answer, although I am not optimistic.

Original by Hansard Office Translation by Debates Translation Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick Oral Questions Hon. Mr. Gallant: Again, the Premier’s Office had given the okay for Service New Brunswick to move forward with the timeline that it had in place. The Premier’s Office asked that the department make sure there were enough resources in place to be able to accomplish the goal in the timeline.

It also asked to ensure that there be a business case demonstrating that this procedure and the process would be justified and that there be a technical briefing for media so that, of course, not only the media, but also the public across the province, would be aware of the changes and what was happening. There are definite problems with the problem-plagued property assessment process. That is why, as a government, we are taking aggressive action to fix it. We have asked former Justice Robertson to do a review of how the errors were created over the past several years, since 2011.

Once we get that report, we will take those recommendations and fix the problem once and for all. Mr. Higgs: We are still batting zero with no answers given. When the Premier ordered the fast- tracking of the assessments, there was additional money budgeted. We cannot get an answer on what the original budget was. However, we know that, in June 2016, there was another budget number of $922 000. To quote the leaked document: Premier Brian Gallant was recently exposed to desktop review... He immediately requested our CEO... to accelerate... modernization efforts. A budget of $922,000 was approved on June 22.

Will the Premier tell us who approved the additional money? I am assuming that it was additional money. It has to be. It was much later than the 2015 date that the Premier certainly referenced several times. Was it the Premier who approved additional money in this budget, the $922 000? Was it Cabinet? Did the Premier give approval for this additional money? Thank you. Hon. Mr. Gallant: Again, as I stated several times, the Premier’s Office wanted to ensure that there would be resources in place, a business case, and a technical briefing for media.

Given that those conditions were being met, the Premier’s Office was more than okay with the timeline that was being put forward. There are definite problems with the property assessment process, and that is why we are taking action. Former Justice Robertson is going to be conducting a review. Again, I suggest to the member opposite that we allow that review to take its course and allow former Justice Robertson the chance to be able to go into the details of what happened this season and every season since 2011 to produce thousands of errors when it comes to assessing properties in the province.

Those recommendations and findings will help us be able to have an agency, independent of the provincial government, set up to be able to do property assessments in the future, fixing the problem once and for all. Mr. Higgs: If I were to qualify that, clearly, deflection was a huge part of the answer, but a “maybe” was in there. Maybe more money was approved. There was no real commitment or

Original by Hansard Office Translation by Debates Translation Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick Oral Questions admission that it was $922 000, but maybe more money was approved because we wanted to put the resources in place to make it happen. We all know that the money that was spent—or that could have been spent, or that was planned to be spent—certainly did not make it happen in a way that did not affect thousands of New Brunswickers very negatively. I ask again: Was the amount that was put forward, the request for $922 000 of additional money... If so, what was that money specifically to be used for?

I would like to know exactly why more money was approved—because Cabinet and the Premier must have done so—and what it was being used for. Why do we need more money to fast-track a system to hose New Brunswickers faster than we possibly needed to do? Hon. Mr. Gallant: Again, former Justice Robertson will be doing a review. We owe it to him and to the people of New Brunswick to allow this independent review to run its course. He will then, of course, be in a position to answer many of the questions that New Brunswickers have, and rightly so.

I do agree with the Leader of the Opposition when he says that there were thousands of New Brunswickers who were negatively impacted. There have been thousands of New Brunswickers who have been negatively impacted by our problem-plagued property assessment process since 2011. In 2011, an arbitrary formula was used. Luckily, it was corrected subsequently. Nonetheless, we see that happening again this season. On top of that, there have been thousands and thousands of errors impacting New Brunswickers and families across the province. We recognize that, in some cases, that can cause hardship.

In some cases—almost all—it causes confusion and inconvenience. There are problems with our process when it comes to evaluating property assessments, and we are going to fix them. Mr. Higgs: The Premier likes to go back and compare, saying that this is similar to what happened in the past. There are no similarities between this situation and what happened in the past. In the past, there may have been errors. There were not fabrications. There were not inflated bills. There were not fraudulent exercises that caused bills to go up. And, Mr.

Speaker, I can assure you that there was not any interference from the Premier’s Office to make bills inflated in order to fake renovations and get higher taxes in an expedited fashion, in a scenario where we are already taxing people well beyond the limit. I am going back to the $922 000. I want to know what that money was approved for. Why did the Premier approve additional money? Was additional money needed? Was it paid out for incentives to move this faster? Was it paid out to make things happen quicker? All I want is an answer. Hon. Mr.

Gallant: There have been thousands of errors every single year since 2011. Every single one of those errors did not serve the families of New Brunswickers who were put into a

Original by Hansard Office Translation by Debates Translation Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick Oral Questions situation of inconvenience and sometimes hardship. We are going to fix the problem-plagued property assessment process once and for all. There is no doubt that, this time around, light has been shed on how some of the errors were made. Perhaps there were errors made in a similar fashion when, as we came to discover, in 2011, an arbitrary formula was used then too. (Interjections.) Mr. Speaker: Order. Hon. Mr. Gallant: We need to get to the bottom of this.

New Brunswickers deserve to have all their questions answered. By having former Justice Robertson do his independent review, we are going to do exactly that. Not only will we have this review done, but also we are going to fix the problems once and for all by having an agency that is independent of the provincial government do the assessments in the future. Mr. Higgs: Moving on with an answer is all that I am interested in. All I want are facts. Why was the $922 000 needed to fast-track the assessment system?

That $922 000 is a very specific figure, so the Premier must have had some very specific line items to share with the taxpayers of this province. Why was more money needed? Was it required to pay the contractor for the system? Was it required for incentives to get it done early? Were there internal bonuses in order to make this happen in a way that got it down from three or four years to one year? Was it for financial incentives to rush the rollout? Why was $922 000 required to meet the Premier’s order to fast-track the new assessment system? Who benefits from this?

I want to know who was paid to push this system hard on the citizens of this province and to make people pay through the nose. That is what I want to hear. [Translation] Hon. Mr. Gallant: If the Leader of the Opposition wants to talk about facts, these are very simple. Since 2011, thousands of errors in property assessments have, unfortunately, been made. This season, property assessment errors were made again, and, as I said before, one error is one too many.

We also know that an arbitrary formula was used, and this is why we will rectify the situation by asking former Justice Robertson to carry out a comprehensive review to see what happened this season, as well as in other years since 2011. We will make sure an agency at arm’s length from the provincial government is tasked with overseeing property assessments in the future. In addition, we have made sure people can report errors that have been made in their assessments at any time. Also, we asked that the request-for-review deadline be extended.

Original by Hansard Office Translation by Debates Translation Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick Oral Questions [Original] Mr. Higgs: If the $922 000 that was approved to rush the system was done for that one year in order to say that we have to get it done by the end of the year and to get it out for the taxation year 2017, I have to believe that it was done on June 22, 2016, when some or all the members of Cabinet became aware of the fast-track order. They all must have played a role in this. If they did not already

Document details

Collection	New Brunswick — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	content house business 58 3 qp transcripts 4170426.ang
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	content house business 58 3 qp transcripts 4170426.ang.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	5562047593e7cb935a05d308ad7a0b97e6674ee1

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