Manitoba Hansard — Sitting 44 (40th Legislature, 3rd Session)

40-3-44

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session - Fortieth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Daryl Reid Speaker Vol. LXVI No. 44 - 1:30 p.m., Wednesday, April 16, 2014 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Fortieth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLAN, Nancy St. Vital NDP ALLUM, James, Hon. Fort Garry-Riverview NDP ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley NDP ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson NDP BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli NDP BLADY, Sharon, Hon. Kirkfield Park NDP BRAUN, Erna, Hon. Rossmere NDP BRIESE, Stuart Agassiz PC CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East NDP CHIEF, Kevin, Hon. Point Douglas NDP CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan NDP CROTHERS, Deanne St.

James NDP CULLEN, Cliff Spruce Woods PC DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk NDP DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood PC EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FRIESEN, Cameron Morden-Winkler PC GAUDREAU, Dave St. Norbert NDP GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Liberal GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach PC GRAYDON, Cliff Emerson PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC HOWARD, Jennifer, Hon. Fort Rouge NDP IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri, Hon. Fort Richmond NDP JHA, Bidhu Radisson NDP KOSTYSHYN, Ron, Hon. Swan River NDP LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. Dawson Trail NDP MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Flor, Hon.

Logan NDP MARCELINO, Ted Tyndall Park NDP MARTIN, Shannon Morris PC MELNICK, Christine Riel Ind. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East PC NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake NDP OSWALD, Theresa, Hon. Seine River NDP PALLISTER, Brian Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine Midland PC PETTERSEN, Clarence Flin Flon NDP PIWNIUK, Doyle Arthur-Virden PC REID, Daryl, Hon. Transcona NDP ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Kewatinook NDP RONDEAU, Jim Assiniboia NDP ROWAT, Leanne Riding Mountain PC SARAN, Mohinder The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron St. Paul PC SELBY, Erin, Hon. Southdale NDP SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St.

Boniface NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Verendrye PC STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo PC STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon. Dauphin NDP SWAN, Andrew, Hon. Minto NDP WHITEHEAD, Frank The Pas NDP WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WIGHT, Melanie Burrows NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC

1995 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, April 16, 2014 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Mr. Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee to frame such laws as may tend to the welfare and prosperity of our province. Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may seek it with wisdom and know it with certainty and accomplish it perfe ctly for the glory and honour of Thy name and for the welfare of all our people. Amen. Good afternoon, everyone. Please be seated.

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 52–The Non-Smokers Health Protection Amendment Act (Prohibitions on Flavoured Tobacco and Other Amendments) Hon. Sharon Blady (Minister of Healthy Living and Seniors ): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the minister, Children and Youth Opportunities, that Bill 52, The Non- Smokers Health Protection Amendment Act (Prohibitions on Flavoured Tobacco and Other Amendments); Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la protection de la santé d es non-fumeurs (interdiction visant le tabac aromatisé et autres modifications), be now read a first time and be ordered for second reading immediately. Motion presented. Ms. Blady: Mr. Speaker, this legislation closes a gap in federal legislation regard ing the sale of flavoured tobacco, especially those flavours that are marketed towards youth. Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Any further introduction of bills? PETITIONS Mr. Speaker: Seeing none, we'll move on to petitions.

Beausejour District Hospital– Weekend and Holiday Physician Availability Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Lac du Bonnet): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. These are the reasons for this petition:

(1) The Beausejour District Hospital is a 30-bed, acute-care facility that serves the communities of Beausejour and Brokenhead.

(2) The hospital and the primary-care centre have had no doctor available on weekends and holidays for many months, jeopardizing the health and livelihoods of those in northe ast region of the Interlake-East Regional Health Authority.

(3) During the 2011 election, the provincial government promised to provide every Manitoban with access to a family doctor by 2015.

(4) This promise is far from being real ized, and Manitobans are witnessing many emergency rooms limiting services or closing temporarily, with the majority of these reductions taking place in rural Manitoba.

(5) According to the Health Council of Canada, only 25 per cent of doctors in Manitoba reported that their patients had access to care on evenings and weekends. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government and the Minister of Health to ensure that the Beausejour District Hospital and primary -care centre have a primary-care physician available on weekends and holidays to better provide area residents with this essential service. This petition is signed by D. Chura, C. Zillman, L. Litke and many, many more fine Manitobans, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker: In keeping with our rule 132(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to have been received by the House. Further petitions?

1996 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 16, 2014 Provincial Sales Tax Increase– Effects on Manitoba Economy Mr. Ralph Eichler (Lakeside): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present th e following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background for this petition is as follows:

(1) The Premier of Manitoba is on record calling the idea of a hike in the PST ridiculous.

(2) Economists calculate that the PST hike has cost the average family $437 more in taxes after only six months.

(3) Seventy-five per cent of small businesses in Manitoba agree that provincial sales taxes are discouraging them from growing their businesses.

(4) The Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association estimates that a 1 per cent increase in the PST will result in job –a loss to the economy of $42 million and threaten hundreds of jobs in that sector.

(5) Partly due to the PST, overall taxes on new investment in Manitoba recently stood at 26.3 per cent

whereas in Alberta the rate was 16.2 per cent and the Ontario rate was 17.9 per cent, according to the Manitoba Chambers of Commerce.

(6) The Manitoba Chambers of Commerce are concerned that the PST hike will make an already uncompetitive tax framework even more unattractive to job creators in the province. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the provincial government to reverse the job-killing PST increase.

(2) T o increase the provincial –to urge the provincial government to restore the right of Manitobans to reject or approve any increases to the PST through a referendum. This petition is submitted on behalf of M. Abrahams, T. Tarrant, E. Tarrant and many other fine Manitobans. Provincial Sales Tax Increase– Reversal and Referendum Rights Mr. Cliff Cullen ( Spruce Woods ): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to the petition is as follows:

(1) The Balanced Budget, Fiscal Management and Taxpayer Accountability Act is a law that guarantees Manitobans the right to vote in a referendum to either approve or reject increases to the PST and other taxes.

(2) Despite the fact that the right to vote is enshrined in this legislation, the provincial government hiked the P ST to 8 per cent as of July 1st, 2013.

(3) The Progressive Conservative Party of Manitoba has asked the courts to rule on whether or not the provincial government broke the law by failing to address the referendum requirement before imposing the PST tax increase on Manitoban families. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the provincial government to reverse the PST increase.

(2) To urge the provincial government to restore the right of Manitobans to vote i n a referendum on increases to the PST. This petition is signed by M. Jamieson, B. Jewsbury, T. Drinkwater and many other fine Manitobans. Employment and Income Assistance– Rental Allowance Increase Mr. Cliff Graydon (Emerson): Good afternoon, Mr. Speaker. I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And these are the reasons for the petition:

(1) The rental allowance for people on unemployment–or on employment and income assistance, EIA, in Manitoba has remained effectively flat for over 20 years, even while the cost of renting a home has steadily increased.

(2) Despite the many calls from the official opposition caucus, individuals and community groups, and despite the fact that the very same recommendation was made in the final report of the inquiry into the circumstances surrounding the death of Phoenix Sinclair, the provincial government has failed to protect the most vulnerable Manitobans by refusing to raise the rental rate portion of employment and income insurance –assistance to 75 per cent of the median market rents. * (13:40)

April 16, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1997

(3) Fewer dollars to use for rent forces Manitobans receiving EIA to live in substandard, overcrowded and unsafe conditions.

(4) Fewer dollars available for EIA recipients to rent safe and h ygienic housing means increased pressure on the food banks, the health- care system and other services, as Manitoba families have to divert money for food and other critical necessities to pay for rent.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government and the Minister of Jobs and Economy to increase the rental allowance to EIA recipients to 75 per cent of the median market rent so that EIA recipients can secure clean, safe and affordable housing without sacrificing other necessities such as food and medical expenses. And this petition is signed by A. Stoesz, W. Friesen, C. Doell and many, many more fine Manitobans. Hydro Capital Development–NFAT Review Mr. Blaine Pedersen (Midland): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

These are the reasons for this petition: Manitoba Hydro was mandated by the provincial government to commence a $21- billion capital development plan to service uncertain electricity export markets. In the last five years, competition from alternative energy sources is decreasing the price and demand for Manitoba's hydroelectricity and causing the financial viability of this capital plan to be questioned. The $21- billion capital plan requires Manitoba Hydro to increase domestic electricity rates by up to 4 per cent annually for the next 20 years and possibly more if export opportunities fail to materialize.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge that the Minister responsible for Manitoba Hydro create a complete and transparent needs-for-and-alternatives-to review of Manitoba Hydro's total capital development plan to ensure the financial viability of Manitoba Hydro. And this pet ition is signed by D. Laudin, J. Kaminsky, W. Kaminsky and many more fine Manitobans. Provincial Sales Tax Increase– Reversal and Referendum Rights Mr. Dennis Smook (La Verendrye) : I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background to the petition is as follows:

(1) The Balanced Budget, Fiscal Management and Taxpayer Accountability Act is a law that guarantees Manitobans the right to vote in a referendum to either approve or reject increases to the PST and other taxes.

(2) Despite the fact that the right to vote is enshrined in this legislation, the provincial government hiked the P ST to 8 per cent as of July 1st, 2013.

(3) The Progressive Conservative Party of Manitoba has asked the courts to rule on whether or not the government broke the law failing to address the referendum requirement before imposing the PST tax increase on Manitoba families. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the provincial government to reverse the PST increase.

(2) To urge the provincial government to restore the right of Manitobans to vote in a referendum on increases to the PST. This petition is signed by L. Woywoda, J. Wolanski, D. Catellier and many more fine Manitobans. Mr. Speaker: Any further petitions? Seeing none, we'll move on to committee reports? TABLING OF REPORTS Hon. Andrew Swan (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): On behalf of the Minister of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs (Mr. Robinson), I am pleased to table the Aboriginal and Northern Affairs Supplementary Information for Legislative Review 2014- 2015 Departmental Expenditure Estimates. Mr.

Speaker: Any further tabling of reports? Hon. Erna Braun (Minister of Labour and Immigration): Mr. Speaker, it's my pleasure to

1998 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 16, 2014 table the Manitoba Labour and Immigration Supplementary Information for Legislative Review 2014-2015 Departmental Expenditure Estimates. Mr. Speaker: Any further tabling of reports? Ministerial statements? * * * Mr. S peaker: Prior to me recognizing the guests, I want to draw the attention of honourable members. It was an oversight on my part when I called for the introduction of bills, and I had the wrong script and I wanted to make sure that the record accurately reflected what the intent was.

And so I'd like to, with respect to the Minister of Healthy Living's bill that she introduced, I want to put on the record that the honourable –it's been moved by the honourable Minister of Healthy Living, seconded by the honourable Minister of Children and Youth Opportunities (Mr. Chief), that Bill 52, The Non- Smokers Health Protection Amendment Act (Prohibitions on Flavoured Tobacco and Other Amendments), be now read for a first time, contrary to what I had said earlier with respect to being called immediately for the second reading.

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt that motion? [Agreed] Thank you for allowing me to correct the record. Introduction of Guests Mr. Speaker: I'm going to introduce guests. We have a number of guests with us here this afternoon. And I'd like to draw the attention to honourable members to the public gallery where we have with us from Chief Peguis Junior High 25 grade 9 students under the direction of Bailey McIntyre and Jordon Yvon-Moreau, and this group is located in the constituency of the honourable member for River East (Mrs. Mitchelson).

On behalf of honourable members, we welcome you here this afternoon. And also seated in the public gallery we have today from Island Lakes Community School 24 grade 4 and 5 students under the direction of Ms. Clare Dutka, and this group is located in the constituency of the honourable Minister of Health (Ms. Selby). On behalf of honourable members, we welcome you here this afternoon. And also seated in the public gallery we have with us today members from the Council of Women of Winnipeg, including the council president, Kelly - Ann Stevenson, who are the guests of the honourable member for St. James (Ms.

Crothers). On behalf of honourable membe rs, we welcome you here this afternoon as well. ORAL QUESTIONS Political Parties Public Financing Mr. Brian Pallister (Leader of the Official Opposition): Well, the government hasn't been at all reticent about promoting its spending, and it's certainly, i n respect of the PST hike, tried to sell Manitobans that it's doing great things as it prances around the province cutting ribbons and running with scissors as a result. Perhaps the Premier could explain.

You know, I asked him several times the other day to share with us how much his party was taking in vote tax, and, obviously, that would be part of the reason for raising the PST, and he didn't want to disclose that. He seems embarrassed or somewhat ashamed about spending money on his own party, and perha ps that's justified; certainly, we think so. So I'll ask him again today if he'd share with the House: How much, in fact, is his party taking as an unearned subsidy in vote tax? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr.

Speaker, this is the second province in C anada to ban corporate and union donations as being excluded from the political process, and we in this side of the House believe in public financing for democracy. That puts limits on big money being able to call the shots and how the democracy of this p rovince, how citizens can influence government. Public financing allows everybody to have a say in how their democracy will function on their behalf. I know the members don't like it when we limit the impact of big money on this province. We think it's rea sonable.

The Legislature has passed that legislation, and we will continue to support public financing. I note the member opposite, when he was a member of the federal Parliament, received over $200,000–$200,000. If he really is opposed to that, when will he rebate that $200,000? Mr. Pallister: Well, I did better than that. I was part of a government that reduced and is going to

April 16, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1999 eliminate the vote tax. So I'm particularly proud of myself: principles and respect. It's interesting how the Premier's defenc e of this unnecessary and unearned subsidy began not in the early years of this millennium when his party was outfundraising the other party, this party that I lead, but rather only after their fundraising began to fall below this party's level. So much for principle.

Now, this is a province in which teachers have been fired, child-care workers have had their salaries arbitrarily reduced by this government, and wait times are growing and longer for ambulances. And yet, is the top priority of this government education or child care or health care? No, it is not. * (13:50) In actual fact, its top priority –and I'd like the Premier to admit this while he shares with us the exact amount of the subsidy he's taking–that his top priority is his own party and himself. Mr. Selinger: Mr.

Speaker, unlike when the Leader of the Oppos ition was in government and 700 teachers were eliminated, we have added over 250 teachers in the grades 1, 2 and 3 to reduce class sizes, over 250 more teachers, voted against by every member of the opposition every single time we've expanded those resources. And we've expanded education funding again this year to keep class sizes small, to provide the kind of supports that will allow young students have a very positive start on the basics in Manitoba: reading, writing, the kind of skills necessary to get along in the world.

Daycare, the member opposite was a part of the federal government that eliminated a national daycare program for this country. We have put more money into daycare. The number of additional spaces in Manitoba is up 12,000. And daycare workers, not only have they seen their salaries increase from around 19, 20 thousand a year to well over $32,000 a year, but we are the second province that's brought in a pension plan for daycare workers in Manitoba. Mr.

Pallister: And those same daycar e workers and teachers were promised by this Premier that they would not see a PST hike and, in fact, he decimated their household incomes with his misbegotten activities since being elected. That's a reality. You know, the Premier has, well understood by Manitobans, including civil servants across this great province, that the Premier sold his integrity for 1 per cent. And he's desperate, I know, to prop up his support. So he takes a vote tax and won't tell Manitobans how much it is. He's had repeated opportunities to do so, but he covers it up.

But we all know that that vote tax went to buy attack ads, and that's wonderful for the Premier, I guess, because they seem to have worked. I believe they gave him a blip in the polls of 1 per cent. So there you go. He's had–he's sold his integrity not once for 1 per cent but twice for 1 per cent. So I'm going to ask him again. I'm going to ask him one more time to share with Manitobans how much of their money he's taking to spend on his party. Mr. Selinger: Mr.

Speaker, this question from an individual that said he would never privatize the telephone system and then promptly privatized the telephone system with all of the benefits going to private individuals, many of whom do not even live in Manitoba. The ra tes went from the third lowest in Canada to the third highest. Our commitment to infrastructure was identified by Manitobans as their top priority. They want to see an investment in good infrastructure, flood protection for Manitoba communities, better roads, better highways, better investments in the kind of infrastructure that keeps communities safe.

And we have followed up on that with a program that will generate 58,900 good jobs in the province of Manitoba, good opportunities for young people, better productivity in our economy, a $6.3-billion lift in our economy. Good jobs for young people, stronger infra - structure and a stronger economy, and the member opposite has no plan for the future of Manitoba. Mr. Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a new question. Manitoba Hydro Development Domestic Power Needs–Foreign Markets Mr.

Brian Pallister (Leader of the Official Opposition): And the only elected government in the country of Canada that ran on a promise not to raise the P ST and then raised the PST, Mr. Speaker. This is credibility, and a credibility gap exists on that side of the House when it comes to this Premier.

2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 16, 2014 Now, just this week again, his Hydro Minister, and the Premier reiterates it, says –threatens Manitobans, s ays we'll freeze in the dark. We'll freeze in the dark by the end of the decade if we don't have new hydro. But no expert testimony whatsoever at the PUB supports this thesis. In fact, the commissioned expert that the PUB hired says 2035; we're fine domes - tically 'til then. So not 2020, as the Premier likes to promote, but rather 15 years thereafter. So the question remains: What's the rush? We have a chance to do this right.

This is the biggest investment in the history of our province. Why do they put on dunce caps and throw away their thinking caps over there? Absent the economic stimulus of these projects, we understand–and I want the Premier to admit it today–that absent the economic stimulus– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable leader's time has expired. Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr. Speaker, Manitoba has a growing economy and a growing population, $62-billion economy. If we do not build Manitoba hydro, we face the prospect of running out of it, 10 years, 12 years. Let's say that the me mber is correct.

Let's say that it's even longer than that. What he fails to understand is we have $10 billion in export contracts, that the customer is saying they want to buy our power. What business person, when he has a contract to sell a good or a se rvice, would say to them, let's delay it, let's take more time, let's not do it? Why would he forgo $10 billion of export revenues that'll pay down the cost of the dams and keep rates low for Manitoba citizens and Manitoba businesses? We have the opportunity to keep the lowest rates in North America, and he wants to delay that. That's foolish. Mr.

Pallister: The Premier reveals his lack of business acumen. What business person would do that? Every business person, if they were forced to sell at a loss, w ould do that. Every business person would do that. This Premier may have a degree from the London School of Economics; it is most certainly not in economics. No expert witness defends the government's proposal, not one, yet the Chicken Little proponents over there say we'll run out of power in the next six years.

Hydro has presented a proposal –Manitoba Hydro has presented a demand -side management plan, sort of Power Smart on steroids, that says that we would actually conserve almost four times as much power annually as we did last year under the Power Smart program. What that means is domestic needs will be put off even–will be met for an even longer period, so we do not need foreign markets. We do not need to spend 30 billion dollars or 25 to expand into foreign markets. So I want to ask the Premier: Will he admit that the case he is advancing is for his own self -interest and to keep this province out of recession?

Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, this from the member that said we should put the brakes on building the floodway to protect the city of Winnipeg. He didn't want to build the floodway, doesn't want to build Manitoba Hydro, doesn't want to build hospitals and personal-care hom es, doesn't want to build roads, doesn't want to build schools. This is a gentleman that will do exactly what he's done in the past, put the Manitoba economy in the deep freeze.

We have a program to create good jobs for young Manitobans, to have steady growth in the economy, to lift the economy by $6.3 billion, and a part of that formula for a successful, growing economy is good, clean, affordable energy. That will be realized by following the tried and true formula of building export markets, where we ha ve $10 billion of confirmed sales. That will pay down the cost of the Keeyask dam, which was estimated at $6.5 billion. That will keep rates low for Manitobans. That will keep rates low for business. That will allow us to grow the economy. The member opposite wants to put a– Mr.

Speaker: Order, please. The First Minister's time has expired. Mr. Pallister: The Premier's plan is eminently simple and simple-minded at the same time. It results in a doubling of Manitobans' rates and the continued export, at a loss, to US customers of our Manitoba hydro. Expert witnesses La Capra, expert witnesses from the Manitoba Metis Federation, retired and current Manitoba Hydro experts, former NDP Hydro ministers Evans, Sale, former NDP premier Ed Schreyer, to a person , say this is a bad idea and it

April 16, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2001 needs the time necessary to make the right decision. That is our position and it remains our decision. What the government is doing is advancing the biggest gamble in the history of Manitoba, choosing Americans over Manito bans, choosing construction over conservation, choosing radical haste over thoughtful analysis. Would the Premier admit that his advancement of these proposals puts Manitoba long- term best interests at risk for the sake of short -term NDP interests? Mr. Selinger: Mr.

Speaker, one thing we know about the Leader of the Opposition, he will grasp any thread that allows him to meet his preconceived notion of not building anything in Manitoba. * (14:00) Many experts have been drawn upon by the need-for-alternatives committee. Many experts have weighed in with their view. One of them is called Knight Piésold independent experts.

Manitoba Hydro, and I quote, is using an appropriate approach towards minimizing capital costs by sharing risks with the contractors an d suppliers through the principal measures of advancing design prior to procurement, identifying and managing risks, and detailed management of the construction process. I know that's a long way of saying they're doing a good job by thinking ahead and planning for the future of Manitoba's economy and good jobs in this province.

The preferred development approach, another expert has said–the TyPlan organization–exhibits the greatest socio -economic benefits to the people of Manitoba. The greatest benefits to the people of Manitoba, that's what we're doing. We're supporting Manitoba Hydro putting forward a long- term plan which generates the greatest– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The First Minister's time has expired. CFS Case Concern Request for Information Mr. Ian Wishart (Portage la Prairie): I had the sad task late last week of meeting with the Herriera family.

They were very understandably distraught by the loss of little Matias de Antonio, a four -week-old son to Maria Herriera. CFS had taken the healthy baby boy when he was only two days old with little explanation to the family as to why this was done. And four weeks later, baby Matias dies while still in the care of Child and Family Services. Can the NDP minister of child and family services offer any explanation to the CFS actions to this grieving family? Hon. Kerri Irvin -Ross (Minister of Family Services): There's nothing more tragic than the death of a child. I send my condolences to the family.

I think the member across the way knows that I am not able to discuss the specifics of this case, but I am able to tell him that we are going to investigate what happened and we are going to learn from this. These tragedies need to be understood. We have given more powers to the Children's Advocate. There is also powers with the Ombudsman and the Chief Medical Examiner. Thank you. Mr. Wishart: I would hope, Mr. Speaker, that tragedy should be prevented. The Herriera family has been attending a CFS-supported visit with little Matias three times a week for the past three weeks.

Shortly after the last visit, they received a call that the baby was in critical condition and arrived at the hospital as the baby passed away. Despite having been put in touch with the coroner's office, they have not yet received any explanation as to what occurred and have received no further contact or explanation from CFS. Mr. Speaker, the family had the baby taken into care. The baby–baby Matias dies while in CFS care. Can the minister not offer this family any explanation as to what happened? Ms. Irvin -Ross: Nothing is more tragic than the death of a child. Every member in this House feels the pain.

I think what is important to understand that the Children's Advocate office has been given the powers to investigate any death of a child that's in care and will be able to provide us with recommendations that will be shared with the Ombudsman as well as the Chief Medical Examiner. Mr. Wishart: We put the family in touch w ith the office of the Children's Advocate, who have the legislative responsibility to investigate the death of any child in the care of CFS. The office of the Child Advocate had not yet been notified of this death when we contacted them on April 11th. They are

2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 16, 2014 certainly aware of that now, and I trust that they will conduct a complete and thorough investigation. But, Mr. Speaker, this family has suffered a tremendous loss with no explanations. They can continue to suffer because of a lack of information. Can this minister offer some explanation as to what has happened to this Manitoba family? Ms. Irvin-Ross: As I stated in my previous question, I'm not able to discuss the specifics of this case.

What I can tell you is that we have put measures in to ensur e that when there is a death of a child that has been in care or has been in touch with Child and Family Services that the independent officer, the Child Advocate, will investigate that. They will provide us with recommendations to ensure that this tragedy cannot –does not happen again. Those recommendations will be shared with the Ombudsman as well as the Chief Medical Examiner. Thank you. CFS Case Concern Request for Information Mrs.

Bonnie Mitchelson (River East): We have a grieving mother and a grieving family who are–were trying hard to regain custody of their healthy baby when they found, just a few hours after they had had a family visit with that baby, that the baby was taken to hospital and died. The question to the minister for–on behalf of this grieving family is: Will they get the respect and the answers that they deserve from this government as to what went so terribly wrong? Hon. Kerri Irvin -Ross (Minister of Family Services): There is nothing more tragic than the death of a child. I send my condolences to the family.

We will–the independent officer, the Children's Advocate, will investigate the circumstances of what happened. They will share that information with the Ombudsman, the Chief Medical Examiner. And we will learn from those recommendations. We continue to work with the many community stakeholders and work towards improving the child-welfare system. Mrs. Mitchelson: But there's –that kind of answer gives absolutely no confidence to the family that they are going to get any answers from this govern - ment or this minister.

My direct question to the minister is: It's fine for everyone else behind the scenes to get the answers to what went wrong. What information is going to be given to the grieving family, who deserve respect and answers from this government? Ms. Irvin-Ross: As I previously stated, I'm not able to disclose the facts of this case in –to protect the family and the child. The tragedy of the death of this child, it upsets all of us.

We have put in place an ability for the independent officer, the Children's Advocate, to review and investigate when there is a death of a child in care or that has been –received services from Family Services. We will continue to work with the Children's Advocate to improve the system. We will work with the Ombudsman as well as we make the recommendations and ensure that they are instituted. Mrs. Mitchelson: Again, the minister is evading the question. We have a family who had their baby –their infant–removed from their care. They were trying desperately to put in place the resources to look after that baby.

They found that that baby died when it was still under her care, her watch. The question is very simple: Will that family get the answers into what went so terribly wrong? Ms. Irvin-Ross: When we hear of the loss of a child, the whole province experiences it. We need to ensure that we are moving forward in making the appropriate changes to the system to strengthen it. W e've done that. We have a lot more work to do and we do not shy away from that.

We were the first government to set up the independent officer of the Children's Advocate to do the investigations when a child dies in care or has been involved in the chi ld-welfare system. We will learn from those recommendations. We will implement them and we will ensure that we share them with all of the authorities and agencies involved in our system. ER Services Wait Times Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): On Tuesday evening, a father called an ambulance to take his 24-year-old son to a Winnipeg ER. His son had severe abdominal pain.

After 10 hours without being seen, the son said he had had enough and he wanted

April 16, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2003 to go home. He was in tears, still in pain, but he felt very let down by the health-care system. I would like to ask the Minister of Health to tell this family why her health-care system failed them. Hon. Erin Selby (Minister of Health): I thank the member for bringing this to my attention, and I would ask he r if she could tell me a little more information afterwards.

Have not been aware of this particular situation, but I would like to give my office a chance to speak with the family to find out exactly what happened, because, of course, we want people to get the care that they need. We want people to know that emergency rooms are there for them when they need it, and if something didn't happen in the way it should have, we want to know what it was so we can fix it. Mrs. Driedger: This is the second ER horr or story we've heard this week, and the minister doesn't seem to even know what's going on in her own health- care system.

This government has had 15 years to fix the problems in the ERs. They promised that. They said they would fix it. Instead, things are getting worse under this NDP government. * (14:10) So I would like to ask this Minister of Health to tell this family: Where is the fix that they promised 15 years ago and in the 15 years following? They keep making promises. They aren't keeping them, and families are falling through the cracks in this system. Where's her fix? Ms. Selby : Mr.

Speaker, t oday and yesterday, the member brought very important information to this Legislature, but I do ask her if she could help us get in contact with the famil y so we could learn more about those situations. If something doesn't go right the way we want it to go in our emergency rooms, if people aren't getting timely care when they need it, if something needs to be investigated, we want to know about that. And I would urge this member to have these families get in touch with our office so that we can find out what happened so we can fix it. Mrs.

Driedger: I would tell the Minister of Health that the father did contact the hospital that did not provide the se rvice to his son, and he is certainly addressing it from that point of view where he feels he will get more information and support. Mr. Speaker, the dad also said that ambulance crews were stuck at the ERs for hours to off -load patients; he could not believe what he saw before his eyes. Again, this NDP government promised that they were going to fix this problem of ER off -loads by ambulances, and it has not been fixed although this government has years and years to fix it and said they would.

So I would like to ask the Minister of Health to finally admit that all of her rhetoric and all of her news releases are not fixing the health -care system. She has to do a better job. Ms. Selby: Mr. Speaker, the people who work in the front care –the front lines of our health- care system have a very difficult job, particularly those who work in emergency rooms. It's a high- stress situation with some very challenging medical situations. I can tell you that when people arrive in the emergency room they are seen by a triage nurse who makes a decision of who needs the help the quickest.

Sometimes that's somebody in an ambulance, sometimes that's somebody who comes in another way. It's up to those front-line workers to make those decisions of who needs to be seen when. I can tell you we've put a number of things in place to help people move quicker through the emergency rooms. Some of it is building personal - care-home beds. Some of it's making sure people have an access to a family doctor, making sure they can go to a QuickCare clinic or an access centre. Mr. Speaker, it's not a simple solution.

There's not one single answer, but I can tell you that by building, by having more doctors and more nurses– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable minister's time has expired. Student Financial Aid Information System Software and Costs Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Lac du Bonnet): In Estimates on Monday the Minister of Education said that phase 1 of the 15- and-a-half-million-dollar new student aid online program is complete. That cost $350,000. However, that minister didn't say is that this program has been suspended. There is no new program. Four years, 15 and a half million dollars later, nothing to show for it. Mr.

Speaker, this NDP government is presently using software launched i n 1995.

2004 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 16, 2014 Mr. Speaker, will this new Minister of Education tell Manitobans and Manitoba students why they haven't got anything for their 15 and a half million dollars? Hon. James Allum (Minister of Education and Advanced Learning): I reiterate the answer that I've given to the member several times, both in question period as well as in Estimates, that were he to go online today and go to the student financial aid system, he would be well served by that system.

He would be able to ma ke an application, and, hopefully, he would be successful in that application and go on and get a degree or a certificate or a diploma. Now, Mr. Speaker, phase 1 of that program is completed to date. Phase 2, like IT programs, are complicated. It has tak en more time to get it up and running. The members opposite would have us do nothing. We prefer to get it right. Mr. Ewasko: That software the minister's talking about was developed in 1994 and launched in '95. To get it right, does he have to spend 15 and a half million more dollars? Mr.

Speaker, we learned last week this NDP government has had to write off over $110 million in taxpayers' money in the last 10 years. That's why it's disappointing, but not surprising, that this new Minister of Education has spent 15 and a half million dollars of taxpayers' money and has nothing to show for it. Mr. Speaker, when will this minister show some integrity, end the cover -up and explain to Manitobans and Manitoba students why he has no results to show for the 15 and a half million dollars of Manitoba's–Manitoba taxpayers' money? Mr.

Allum: The truth of the matter is that we do get results for students all across the board. We have the lowest–among the lowest tuition rates for universities and colleges in Ca nada. We fund universities at 2.5 per cent and we fund colleges at 2.0 per cent, among the highest in the country. And then, Mr. Speaker, when the student is finished and when they're graduated and they're in a position to go out and get a good job, then they can apply for a student tuition rebate which will rebate almost 60 per cent of their tuition. We're on the side of students. We work with them every day.

I'm not sure what side the other side is on. Mr. Ewasko: Mr. Speaker, he's avoiding the question. Trust is very important to all Manitobans. This new Education Minister ran in the last election promising to his constituents he would not raise taxes. He has now fired at least 11 teachers in this wonderful province of ours, blown 15 and a half million dollars on a student financial aid program that isn't working.

And whilst the project is suspended, is he going to continue this debacle of cover-up, or is he going to tell the truth today and tell the hard -working Manitoba taxpayers where the 15 and a half million dollars have gone? Mr. Allum: You know, Mr. Speaker, the member's question perplexes me. I know him to be a teacher and a parent, so I know he would support more funding for schools that we've provided every single year since we came into office. As a parent and a teacher, I know that he would support small class sizes.

As a parent and a teacher, I know that he would support 250 more teachers being hired as a result of the small -class- size initiative. As a parent and a teacher, I know that he would support more funding for universities and more funding for colleges. Mr. Speaker, his leader is proposing to cut more than half a billion dollars from the budget. It seems to me– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The minister's time is expired. Manitoba Business Community Regulatory Policy Concerns Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr.

Speaker, in Manitoba the NDP government is failing to improve the business conditions and to reduce the regulatory burdens on businesses. This was evident this morning when Rana Bokhari, for example, spoke at the Manitoba Chambers of Commerce breakfast. One of the essentials in reducing the regulatory burden, you know, this NDP orange tape, is knowing that the amount of it in our province which results from the provincial government activities. I ask the Premier: Has he measured the amount of orange tape which is tying the hands of

April 16, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2005 Manitobans trying to establish or run a business in our province? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): I can see why the member opposite wants to avoid the expression red tape. I know that. I understand that. Mr. Speaker, small businesses have had zero taxes in Manitoba up to $425,000. That's the ultimate red tape reduction because they don't have to pay any taxes. No forms have to be filled out. They get to do the job properly.

They don't have to remit taxes in Manitoba on the first $425,000, and on the first half a million dollars of income of a small business in Manitoba, it's the lowest rates in the country. There is a place for proper re gulation, and the member has asked for –me questions on that. What do we do to regulate protecting Lake Winnipeg? We brought in some very tough laws, Mr. Speaker, to stop phosphorus going into Lake Winnipeg, because we believe in healthy –we believe that Lak e Winnipeg should be a healthy lake and there needs to be regulations to do that.

So will the member let us know which regulations he supports and which regulations he does not support? Mr. Gerrard: I support good regulations, but not the massive regulations that this government brings in. * (14:20) While the CFIB rates Manitobans' NDP as a laggard, the Liberal government in British Columbia has been a leader in reducing their regulatory burden. In the CFIB report, British Columbia is shown as having very strong political leadership to reduce their regulatory burdens. The orange tape built up in BC by a previous NDP government –here's an example.

The number of regulatory requirements has been reduced in BC by 42 per cent since 2001 when the province first started measuring it. When will this NDP government start measuring the orange tape burden it has imposed on people in Manitoba? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, we've just modernized all the liquor laws in Manitoba. We've reduced the number of permits from over 13 down to about four. At the same time, we've increased the social responsibility requirements for those serving liquor to members of the public so that the public is better protected from practices which encourage overconsumption.

But at the–on the other hand, we've reduced the– we've created more opportunities for live enter - tainment in these venues, because we have a very flourishing arts scene in Manitoba and we have many young artists that could be exposed in performances to Manitobans and creat e a healthier atmosphere in restaurants and cabarets and hotels. All of these things are intended to improve the quality of life in Manitoba. We use regulation to improve the quality of life. We reduce regulation where it's redundant and no longer necessary. Another example, Mr.

Speaker: We harmonized the road requirements for big trucks moving across borders to encourage more trade east and west in this country, so we've reduced and harmonized the regulations for the axle weights of trucks going across borders. Where it makes sense, we'll reduce regulations. Where it makes– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable First Minister's time has expired. Mr.

Gerrard: While Manitoba's NDP government strangles businesses with orange tape, the Liberal government in British Columbia has implemented a regulatory policy checklist which is designed to make sure all new regulatory measures put in place actually make sense. As well, the Liberal government of BC is planning a public consultation on additional items to measure and assess their regulatory burden this year. I ask the Premier: When will his NDP govern - ment implement a regulatory policy checklist and hold public consultations on reducing Manitobans' orange tape? Mr.

Selinger: Every regulation that's brought forward is tested for whether there will be a public benefit for it. When we brought in the new 'horme' warranty program in Manitoba to protect Manitoba families from the most expensive purchase they make, we made sure that warranty progra m will ensure that a family buying a new home in this province will get a good quality product. We worked for years with the industry to make sure that they supported that warranty program, one of the better warranty programs in the country, Mr. Speaker. Is he against that form of regulation? I hope not.

2006 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 16, 2014 When we brought in regulatory improvements to–when you buy a new vehicle in Manitoba, the price you see on the new vehicle is the price you pay. The industry supported that. Manitobans support that. Is he opposed to that form of regulation? Is he opposed to the regulation to protect Lake Winnipeg? Is he opposed to the regulation that was just tabled in the House yesterday, a law to prevent young people from consuming flavoured tobacco? Mr.

Speaker, le t him speak if he's opposed to regulations that protect the health of Manitobans, that protect the purchasing power of Manitobans, that'll p rotect the wages of Manitobans and protect the environment of Manitoba. All of those things make life better for families– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable First Minister's time has expired. Recreational Facility Upgrades Funding Announcement Mr.

Matt Wiebe (Concordia): One of the best ways to build safer, healthier, more engaging communities is for government to support those projects that are a priority for families and volunteers that give of their time on the grassroots. Specifically, we know that by investing in recreation facilities we can provide our young people with opportunities to discover and grow their talents and find a sense of belonging in their neighbourhood. Can the Minister of Children and Youth Opportunities update the House on the exciting announcement of how the Province is investing in Winnipeg recreation facilities? Hon.

Kevin Chief (Minister of Children and Youth Opportunities ): I was proud to join the MLA for Concordia, students, members of the community and, of course, Kevin Gibson from Status4 on a very exciting announcement: 3 and a half million dollars to support upgrades to r ecreation facilities throughout the city. This includes soccer pitches and pools, arenas, bike paths, cultural facilities. We know that thousands of families use these facilities all throughout the city.

You know, we want to make sure that we're investin g in things that give families safe places to play and participate, builds a strong sense of belonging, builds on the skills and talents in our neighbourhoods and, of course, gives everyone a sense of contribution. I want to take the time to thank all of the incredible volunteers in our neighbourhoods and communities for sitting on boards, for sitting on committees, for implementing these programs. And we're very proud to work with them on building safe, strong, healthy communities. Thank you. Biodiesel Producers Program Update Mr.

Cliff Graydon (Emerson): In 2004, the minister of Agriculture at the time mandated that biodiesel be 2 per cent of the diesel fuel consumed in Manitoba. Producers at the time in Arborg and the RM of Bifrost set up a business w ith the belief that there was a market and that the government - mandated program would use locally produced biodiesel in government vehicles and equipment. Mr. Speaker, why did the Minister of Agriculture and this government fail the producers with this program? Hon.

Ron Kostyshyn (Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development): I'd like to thank the member opposite for bringing the question forward. And I sense the opportunity's always there when we talk about the great things we do in agriculture and exploring options of added value of the products we grow in the province of Manitoba. And we talk about biofuels, we talk about biomass, we talk about a number of great things we do in the province of Manitoba. We talk about the partnership with Growing Forward 2 and exploratory and the two main pillars being innovation and research.

And we continue to work for the benefit for the agriculture society in the province of Manitoba, to provide additional dollars so they don't have to rely on st rictly the main component of the main cargo, such as a grain that –I'm sure the members opposite really support the grain industry, and I heard them very loudly support the grain industry. And maybe the Canadian Wheat Board, certain branches of the tree, that today some of the producers are facing– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable minister's time has expired. Mr. Graydon: Well, Mr.

Speaker, the plant had a capacity of –to deliver 1,600 litres per day of biodiesel to Manitoba Hydro and to the government. The company and the producers who invested their money trusted the MLA for the Interlake and this government to help them, not desert them.

April 16, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2007 The plant currently sits empty, and the building is in receivership. The MLA for the Interlake is nowhere to be found. And thanks to the mis - management of his government–because the govern- ment was supposed to buy the biodiesel from the – now the government buys the biodiesel from the United States, not from Bifrost. Mr. Speaker, why did this government and the MLA fail the people of Arborg and the RM of Bifrost? Mr.

Kostyshyn: Obviously, the members opposite – and I guess much to the member from Midland's commentary about Highway 68 and its Interlake area doesn't exist, I kind of wonder why the commentary is that we talk about today of the importance we treat Manitoba equally no matter where we are geographically. And we continue –will–working with the industry as best as we can. And let me just reinforce the fact. Growing Forward 2 is a great component of added val ue in the province of Manitoba. We will continue to work with stakeholder groups regardless what the members opposite feel is important or not.

But I do know the Department of Agriculture – this government believes in looking ahead into building the econom y in the province of Manitoba, and we will stay focused forever and ever. Thank you so much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: Time for oral questions has expired. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Mr. Speaker: It is time for members' statements. Royal Canadian Artillery Museum Mr. Cliff Cullen ( Spruce Woods ): The Royal Canadian Artillery Museum at Canadian Forces Base Shilo is one of the largest military museums in Canada. It has won numerous awards and is a Manitoba star attraction.

The RCA Museum is a great cultural asset for Manitoba. The museum has recently been given a category A designation by Heritage Canada under the movable cultural properties act. This designation is a tremendous endorsement of the museum's programs and facilities. Only 8 per cent of all museums, galleries, archives, libraries and cultural institutions in Canada have a category A designation under the act. The staff and volunteers of the RCA Museum should be commended for this achievement.

The RCA Museum has four large permanent galleries which tell the stories of how military forces and conflict have shaped our province and our country. The galleries are world class in all respects. Included in the permanent displays is an entire gallery dedicated to the military history of Manitoba, which is a ve ry important cultural resource for our province, particularly for our youth. The RCA Museum is also one of the few museums in Manitoba to regularly feature travelling exhibits from the Canadian War Museum and the Canadian Museum of History.

This year, fro m April 7th to June 29th, the War of 1812 bicentennial exhibit from the Canadian War Museum will be in Shilo. The RCA Museum is bringing national -level travelling exhibits to Manitoba, allowing thousands of people in our province, and especially youth, access to Canadian cultural heritage that they would not otherwise likely experience. * (14:30) In addition to bringing in national -level travelling exhibits, the RCA Museum also produces top-quality temporary exhibits of its own.

On the 4th of August this year, the museum will open a very special exhibit in honour of the centennial of the First World War. The RCA Museum at Canadian Forces Base Shilo is a museum with programs and displays of highest quality, an institution dedicated to constant improvement and a place dedicated to honouring all Canadians who have served in our military forces who have –or who have been affected by conflict. The RCA Museum is truly one of the cultural gems in our province. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Council of Women of Winnipeg– 120th Anniversary Ms. Deanne Crothers (St.

James): This year the Council of Women of Winnipeg celebrates their 120th anniversary. I am pleased to have council president Kelly -Ann Stevenson and other members of the council joining us in the gallery today. The council was formed when 10 Winnipeg women's groups came together on March 27th, 1894 to organize the Winnipeg council. It was one of the first in Canada. The longevity of this organization is a testament to the importance of their work and the strength of their membership. The council is made up

2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 16, 2014 of a network of organizations and individuals who work together to pursue common interests on behalf of families and their communities. In the 120 years since its establishment the Council of Women of Winnipeg has debated issues and advocated public policy on a diverse range of topics. They have long been a leading proponent for the voice of women in public life and have deeply influenced our city and province. They have supported nurses, low -income housing, access to education, home care, as well as fair salaries and employment equity practices.

The Winnipeg council was also a founding member of women's model parliament and their early work led to the formation of the Consumers' Association of Canada. With 120 years of hard work behind them this is just a snapshot of their incredible accomplishments. Today, they continue to advocate the diverse views of their membership. The Winnipeg council is part of a broader network of women's councils which includes the Provincial Council of Women of Manitoba and the National Council of Women of Canada. Collectively, these organizations empower, educate and improve the quality of life for women across Canada. Mr.

Speaker, I ask all members of the Legislature to join me in thanking the Council of Women of Winnipeg for 120 years of truly incredible advocacy. Thank you very much. Farm-Gate Food Safety Mr. Blaine Pedersen (Midland): Yesterday, in response to a question, the Minister of Agriculture claimed food produced on the farm and sold directly to consumers was not safe for consumption.

He further went on to state he really didn't care what farmers and consumers think because he is the Ag Minister and is more concerned about creating rules and regulations than ensuring consumers have the option of developing a relationship built on trust and respect with farms wishing to sell their product directly to consumers. The minister needs to get on–get with the times. Banning sales on the websites, banning producers from working together to deliver their product safely to consumers' door is heavy -handed and outdated.

Banning the 83- year-old lady in Swan River from delivering a jelly salad to the fall supper is just plain silly. These are just a few examples of how far removed from reality this minister and this government have become. Everyone wants safe food, but creating more bureaucracy, more rules, more regulations does not ensure a practical approach to food safety. Enabling consumers and food producers to develop a trusting relationship based on mutual respect will do far more to ensure food safety than any NDP bureaucracy could ever hope to achieve.

Consumers will decide with their own pocketbook what food is safe for their families to consume, not a government out of touch with consumers. It is time this NDP government got with the times. Thank you. Education Week in Manitoba Mr. Clarence Pettersen (Flin Flon): This week is Education Week in Manitoba. We often speak of the value education has on our children's lives, helping them grow and succeed in whatever they choose to do. I'd like to take a few minutes to reflect on the impact teachers have on all our lives.

On April 8th I recognized South Indian Lake principal Wayne Marche here at the Legislature, who has recently received The Learning Partnership's Outstanding Principal Award. This truly speaks to the quality of education we find in northern Manitoba. Principal Marche's list of accom - plishments also highlight the changing face of teaching. These days b eing a teacher involves so much more than being an educator. In one day a teacher might be a guidance counsellor, social worker, educator and coach to the students. Before my time as MLA, I was a teacher for 33 years, 30 of which I spent teaching in Flin Flon.

Those years as a teacher were incredibly rewarding and I never forget my time spent in the classroom. It was an honour to be a teacher and a coach to so many people in my community. Even now I find myself running into former students not just on the streets of Flin Flon but in places you would never expect, like mining conferences in Toronto. Thirty years later, I still see the effect my teaching had on their lives, and I wouldn't trade it for anything. Mr.

Speaker, I'm incredibly proud that many educators, especially now with their experience taking on so many different roles, get involved in public service outside the classroom as well. Several previous Flin Flon MLAs started their careers as

April 16, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2009 teachers. But it doesn't stop there. Many in this House are former teachers on both sides. The current mayors of Flin Flon and Snow Lake and Lynn Lake are all former teachers. The mayor of Lynn Lake was even one of my students. Whether working in schools or in public service, teachers' contributions continue t o make our communities stronger, inclusive and better places to call home. Thank you. Drinking Water in Manitoba Communities– Government Record Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr.

Speaker, I rise today to speak on the increasingly cavalier attitude of this NDP government toward the needs of Manitobans. For weeks, thousands of Winnipeggers suffered with no clean running water due to frozen water pipes. On Monday in question period, the Premier (Mr. Selinger) sloughed off his government's responsibility in this crisis. While this is primarily a City responsibility, normally the Province will help where a city has an emergency. But this time, for Winnipeg, the Province has been virtually absent.

This NDP government also seems to deny they have a constitutional obligation to ensure appropriate codes and standards are in place and being enforced when it comes to ensuring pipes don't freeze in our municipalities. Not only did the Premier attempt to unload his government's responsibility off onto the federal and municipal governments, but his response, which I quote, we just want them to get the pipes built, end of quote, implied he was just waiting for the City of Winnipeg to build them. Mr. Speaker, this is less about building pipes than about thawing pipes.

Maybe if the Premier would take the hot air his government emits in this Chamber out into the ground under our streets it might make a difference. Mr. Speaker, access to clean running water is a human right and a health and safety issue for Manitobans. Whether it's frozen pipes in Winnipeg, Carman and other communities or the complete lack of any running water at all in any number of our northern Manitoba First Nations homes, it is a Manitoba issue. But as recent as February 28 of this year, Global Winnipeg reported on the daily struggle of those living in St. Theresa Point to get clean drinking water.

It is shocking and distressing that this can still be reported in Manitoba in 2014. We have to ask, where was the Premier's government on this for the last 15 years? Mr. Speaker: Grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS Mr. Speaker: Seeing no grievances, orders of the day, government business. Hon. Andrew Swan (Government House Leader): Could you please call Committee of Supply. Mr. Speaker: We'll now resolve into the Committee of Supply. Mr. Deputy Speaker, will you please take the Chair. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) HEALTH, HEALTHY LIVING AND SENIORS * (14:40) Mr.

Chairperson (Mohinder Saran): Order. Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now resume consideration of the Estimates for the Department of Health, Healthy Living and Seniors. As previously agreed, questions for the department will proceed in a global manner. The floor is open for questions. Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): I'm just wondering if the Minister of Health had any responses to questions that were asked yesterday that she wanted to put on the record. Hon. Erin Selby (Minister of Health , Healthy Living and Seniors): Yes, I have a couple. I can do that now.

I was asked, can construction start on the old piles at the Selkirk hospital or do they need to be replaced. We've been told that the pre- cast concrete piles will be re -struck and they do not need to be replaced. Also was asked how much it will cost to hire an engineer to determine if the piles are safe, and I can tell the committee that the engineer for the project has been on this project since the piles w ere first struck and will ensure that they are structurally sound.

2010 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 16, 2014 I was also asked about the Notre Dame de Lourdes hospital, an update on the construction, and I can let this committee know that the project is in the tender documentation stage of development. The project is proceeding on time and on budget. Mr. Blaine Pedersen (Midland): Just in regards to the Notre Dame hospital, as it's in my constituency, and the tender documentation stage, is there any estimate from the department, then, as to when these tenders will be received, and a perceived start of construction and completion date? Ms.

Selby: We're just looking for that information. We'll have to get back to the member. Mrs. Driedger: Just a few questions in a follow -up to where we ended yesterday. And I wonder if the minister could tell us, and the questions are related to the Gamma -Dynacare medical labs. I understand that they built a new lab here in Winnipeg last year. And I would like ask the Minister of Health: How much work does Dynaca re do for Manitoba Health? Is there a contract between Manitoba Health and Dynacare for a specific number of tests to be done, or how does it actually work? Ms.

Selby: I can tell the member that private labs are contracted and are currently under negotiat ion with Manitoba Health –currently in negotiation with Manitoba Health. * (14:50) Mrs. Driedger: Can the minister indicate how long the contracts with Gamma -Dynacare have been occurring? From what I can recall, we were sending, from Manitoba, a lot of spe cimens to them over a number of years, and then they built a lab here in Manitoba last year. So can the minister indicate how long the government has actually been contracting with Gamma-Dynacare? Ms.

Selby : I can tell the member that Gamma has taken ove r labs that already existed, one such as Trainor Lab, but I will get back to the member with how long Gamma has been involved in that. Mrs. Driedger: Do hospitals send specimens for testing to this particular lab? Ms. Selby: Well, we certainly know that clinics and doctors do. We'll have to check on hospitals. Mrs. Driedger: And I'm assuming that the minister knows that they did build a lab here, not just taking over something, that there was actually a ribbon cutting last May, and it's a large building with –and it is a new lab.

And they are actually employing 250 employees and report approximately 8 million medical diagnostic tests annually, serving about 2,000 health- care providers and their patients. And that's, they say, just in Manitoba. So it sounds like there is major use of this facility, which I understand works to world -class standards and provides additional capacity in the system. So it's taking the strain, obviously, then, off the system.

I would ask the minister if she could, when she does a response on these questions, if she could put that response in writing and also indicate how much money annually is awarded to this lab for the work that they do, and if she can also indicate the various types of tests that that lab does for the government. Ms. Selby: Yes, Gamma definitely has a large, new facility, but they also took over a lot of the smaller private labs that doctors in Manitoba ran. Mrs.

Driedger: The minister indicated yesterday that the government uses private clinics for certain procedures and indicated there was Western, Maples and Altru, and I know that Western and Maples have been providing service for –in a publicly funded way for many, many, many, many years. Can the minister indicate what the government contracts with–or contracts for with Altru? Ms. Selby : I'm sorry. We didn't both hear the question the same way. I wonder if the member could repeat it. Mrs. Driedger: I'm just wondering if the minister could tell us what the contract with Altru is for. Ms.

Selby: Yes, we have contracted with that clinic for many years as well. It's to allow patients in southern Manitoba access to the clinic, in some cases, for general medical care. Mrs. Driedger: And can the minister indicate when that contract was established with Altru? Ms. Selby: We have that information, but we've got to get back to the member. Mrs. Driedger: Can the minister tell us what those medical procedures are that Altru provides through the contract? Ms. Selby: And, again, we'll get back to the member. Mrs. Driedger: And can the minister tell us where this clinic is located?

April 16, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2011 Ms. Selby : Altru has several locations in North Dakota, but I can get back to the member with specifics. Mrs. Driedger: I'm aware that Altru has a number of clinics throughout North Dakota. They've got quite a few, actually. I am going to ask the minister then: Are Manitoba patients referred to a number of different clinics or are there just certain ones that the government contracts with? * (15:00) Ms. Selby : Mr. Chair, I want to correct something that I put on the record earlier. We had said North Dakota.

It's actually–the contract is with the clinic in Roseau, Minnesota, and that contract was signed October 21st, 1998. Mrs. Driedger: If the minister has been able to get that information, can she indicate then what that contract is for? What procedures does it provide then to Manitobans in this clinic? Ms. Selby: Mr. Chair, we're working on getting that information for the member. Mrs. Driedger: So the minister then has indicated, and it sounds like for their whole time in office, they've basically had contracts with private clinics at Western, Maples and Altru.

So I have to ask the minister, because whenever Tories would say that pri vate clinics could help the system, we've –this government has always then turned us into the bogeyman and saying that we are for private health care. And yet this government, when they do the same thing that we have promoted, it seems to be okay. So what 's the difference? Why is it okay for the NDP to use private clinics but the –when the Tories talked about using private clinics in the same, exact way, why did this government turn us into boogeymen and fearmonger the public about a two-tier health care system? Ms.

Selby : We fundamentally, as a party, believe that health care should be based on medical need, not on an ability to pay, but we are happy to look at using private clinics in a pragmatic way when it enhances medicare. But, of course, we stand fi rmly against an American -style, two -tier medicine. We will contract with a private clinic if it can contribute to reducing wait times, if it adds doctors and nurses to the system, as long as they're willing to follow all of our standards and expectations of patient safety, accountability, all standards of safety as well.

We look at if it's cost -efficient, that they're willing to be transparent financially and comply with all Manitoba regulations and the Canadian health act. I think it's important that in t he cases of Maples and some of the private clinics that we work with that it's never about poaching staff from the public system or jumping the queue, it's about enhancing medicare. Mrs. Driedger: So who actually gave that answer, because I know the minis ter wrote it all down off of her iPhone. It wasn't really her answer. She was reading somebody else's answer. So who provided that information to the minister? Ms. Selby: Mr.

Chair, I will stand up for health care for people who need it when they need it, anytime, Mr. Chair, and I will never allow while I'm on this watch for an American -style, two -tier health -care system to come into Manitoba. I want people who need the care to get it when they need, not because they have the time, the money, to jump to the front of the line. This is what I believe in, it's why I'm a member of this party –the party that started medicare in Canada. Mrs.

Driedger: And I would remind the minister that it was a Tory government that brought medicare into Manitoba, so she doesn't have a high horse to stand on here. And, in fact –[interjection] well, we did. It was a Tory government that introduced medicare to Manitoba– Mr. Chairperson: Order, please. Order, please. Let the member ask the question. Mrs. Driedger: That's right, thank you, Mr. Chair. * (15:10) So the Tories have always said what the minister has just said in terms of the value and the use of private clinics.

That is our position, has been our position, and yet when we have promoted it, this whole NDP party has run around and basically made us the bogeyman in it, that we were going to privatize health care, when all we have ever indicated is that we support private clinics that are publicly funded. So why is it okay for the NDP to be so morally superior on this when we have said exactly the same thing, and yet they have vilified us for saying the same thing?

2012 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 16, 2014 Ms. Selby : Well, Mr. Chair, I guess it's probably because we've heard the members of the opposition party say things like the member for Tuxedo (Mrs. Stefanson) who said in Hansard, in the House, on November 22nd of 2005, the member for Tuxedo said patients should be allowed to purchase these MRI services. So I guess that's why we have an understanding that they believe that people should jump the queue because their members have said things that seem very clearly to say that. Mrs.

Driedger: Interesting how this NDP government wants to sort of torque some of the messages that are out there when we have always indicated–always indicated that there is a role for privately funded, publicly paid-for services in private clinics.

So, you know, the member is certainly –the minister is certainly off message in what she and her party are trying to promote, and I hope that –and I find it a little bit strange here, that for these types of questions, the minister is actually using her deputy for what are quite political questions that the minister should be answering on her own without turning to her deputy and asking for responses to some of these, which are NDP political partisan policy messages. The minister is really overstepping her bounds in that particular area, and I don't th ink it's a fair position to put her staff in.

She should be able to stand on her own feet and answer those questions herself. So, Mr. Chair, my colleague here has a few other questions about the use of the American clinic to provide Canadians with health care. Mr. Cliff Graydon (Emerson): And I'm actually shocked as well that the minister chooses to play political football with the help of Manitobans with her answers. It is a bit shocking but, at the same time, I would like to ask the minister: How often is the facility in Roseau, Minnesota, used? Ms. Selby : I can give the member the most recent numbers that we have.

From 2012 -2013 show that 828 Manitoba residents used the Altru clinic at that – in that time. Mr. Graydon: Could the minister explain what that was for? Ms. Selby : I can get b ack to the member with a

summary of things that were treated and looked at during that year. Mr. Graydon: I appreciate that. At the same time that we're using as –this facility that's in Roseau, Minnesota –it's a private facility as sure–as I'm sure that t he minister knows. But, if we have a serious issue or a serious case that is taken to Roseau, Minnesota and–do they get transferred, then, after being stabilized? Do they get transferred to where? Ms. Selby : It would depend on the situation. In many cases they would return to receive their acute services in southern Manitoba or in Winnipeg RHA. Mr.

Graydon: Because of the high usage in the last year of over 800, that's twice a day that someone from Manitoba is using that. Would that be because the ER has been closed for 550 days in Vita? * (15:20) Ms. Selby : This is a question of proximity and convenience for residents. We also have similar agreements in Flin Flon for the people of Creighton, Saskatchewan, to come to Flin Flon because that's closer for t hem than to go to perhaps another clinic in Saskatchewan. So it's just a question of convenience for people and proximity of a clinic. Mr.

Graydon: If we have an acute situation at –is in Roseau, Minnesota, because it is convenient, because the ER is close d in Vita, I might add, that –is the STARS helicopter able to go down and pick that person up to transfer to a Winnipeg hospital or does it get transferred to a hospital in North Dakota or Minnesota? Ms. Selby: Of course, right now, STARS isn't doing any in terfacility transfers. It's only available for scene calls at this time. Mr. Graydon: It seems that there's a lot of money being spent on a helicopter that we're not able to use.

So, in the case that the individual needs to be flown to another facility, what do you do in that case? Ms. Selby : A couple of things. I'm not sure if the member's suggesting that we should ignore the advice of the medical professionals who've given us their go-ahead for scene calls only. If the member's suggesting that we turn t o full service against medical advice, I'm not going to do that. But I can tell the member it depends on the situation. Sometimes acute care will go on in the States. In many cases, somebody returns to Manitoba. MTCC, of course, they're the ones who make the decision on dispatch.

They're the experts on the front line who decide who to send and whether it should be land, helicopter or jet.

April 16, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2013 Mr. Graydon: Could the minister tell me the difference between STARS being used at an emergency and/or a transfer? Wh at is the difference in that? Ms. Selby : I can let the member know that the experts in the field tell me that critical -care environment is the most and–challenging environ- ment in the medical system. We rely on the advice of our medical experts to guide us on how to make sure that we're providing the safest service that we can. It was under their advice that we returned to scene calls only.

Scene calls are the ones that, f or whatever reason, nothing else can get in there. You can't drive an ambulance in, you can't land a jet that– whether it's because it's isolated or, in some cases, traffic accidents on highways can be hard to get to for anything else. A scene call is used in the case where there's no other option other than the helicopter. It was on our medical experts' advice that they guided us back to scene calls, put a number of measures in place that they felt addressed some of their concerns. It's also on their advi ce that we're going to get back up to full service.

We have in place the Clinical Oversight Panel under the direction of Dr. Brian Postl. They're looking at a number of things in order to get us back to full service, including those interfacility transfe rs. I know they're looking at training, they're looking at dispatch, they're also looking at how bringing it underneath the umbrella of the WRHA will allow people to have that high -volume experience that they need on a regular basis in order to keep up those skills.

So, in these cases, we rely on our medical experts to let us know that their concerns have been addressed, and they have for return for scene calls, but they are working on the Clinical Oversight Panel to address a number of areas to return to full service. Mr. Graydon: It's quite clear that the minister is just dragging the puck. She –I'm sure that she heard the question.

It was very clear, it was very concise, and the answer had nothing to do with the question. * (15:30) I would ask her, though, that if she has the capacity to land a jet in Roseau, Minnesota, perhaps she could share that with the residents of Minnesota as well. The question was clear: the difference between an emergency pickup and a transfer. Ms. Selby : We–I–how to say thi s. We rely on the experts in the field. I am not an emergency doctor. I'm not a critical -care nurse. It's why we rely on the experts in the field to guide us.

I can tell the member that the interfacility transfers require extensive efforts related to the protection of airways. I could certainly have some of our experts give us some more details on exactly what happens in the difference between a scene call and an interfacility transfer. I trust that it is a different medical procedure and when our me dical experts are comfortable that we've addressed their concerns, we'll return to full service. But I will be relying on those medical experts. I don't know –the member's suggesting that we ignore that but I'm not going to do that.

So I know there are some difference in terms of intubation and protection of airways, but I rely on Dr. Postl and the clinical–the experts at the Clinical Oversight Panel to let us know that their concerns have been addressed because, of course, they're the experts on what is nee ded to proceed safely in the scene call or the interfacility transfer. Mr. Graydon: I won't have any further questions of the minister.

She doesn't understand, and it's quite clear that she doesn't understand the difference between an emergency and workin g under those types of circumstances versus a stable patient that's being transferred. So I'm just going to say that I have no more questions for her as she's just ragging the puck anyway. Mrs. Driedger: At this point, I believe the Minister of Healthy Li ving is now going to start her Estimates, and following that I understand that we will then go into the line by line. Mr. Chairperson: Okay. Now we will now proceed with the questions for the Minister of Healthy Living and Seniors.

Does the honourable minister have an opening statement? Hon. Sharon Blady (Minister of Healthy Living and Seniors): Yes, I do. I am pleased to present the 2014- 15 expenditure Estimates for Healthy Living and Seniors. This portfolio is committed to provid ing Manitobans with support across the broad spectrum of healthy living for all ages. This is a diverse and important portfolio and it is an honour to lead the department. We are responsible for a number of Healthy Living and Seniors' policies, programs and initiatives most of which are aimed at helping Manitobans to avoid or

2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 16, 2014 delay the onset of chronic disease, addictions and mental health issues, promote injury prevention and improve the overall health of Manitobans. To this end, Healthy Living and Seniors has a major role to play in the health of Manitobans and in contributing to the sustainability of the health system for all. Healthy Living strives to support Manitobans to maintain health and wellness through all stages and ages of life.

Close working relationships with colleagues in the department, other departments, regional health authorities, community and interest groups, schools and school divisions, child- care centres, universities and workplaces allows the department to support Manitobans to make healthier choices and live healthier lives. With vital and varied investments in improving the quality of life of our citizens at all ages, stages and in various settings, we strive to support a holistic approach to health: physical, mental, emotional a nd spiritual health.

In 2004, Manitoba was the first province in Canada to introduce a province-wide smoking ban in enclosed public places and in indoor workplaces. Since then, we have had many other achievements in this area and remain committed and st eadfast in our intention to reduce tobacco use. Most recently, on May 31st, 2013, and as a result of legislative changes, tobacco sales were banned in pharmacies, stores containing a pharmacy, health -care facilities and vending machines, and in July 2014, Manitoba will prohibit smoking on playgrounds and beaches in provincial parks.

Initiatives such as reducing points of sale serve to further denormalize tobacco products and their use, and such efforts will continue to reduce their acceptability as a consum er product and further the goal of being a smoke-free province. This year Health and Healthy Living has dedicated $588,000 in new funding to the develop- ment of initiatives in northern Manitoba to help reduce the cost of healthy foods that cannot be locally grown. As the 2014 budget speech stated, this year we will be helping make healthy foods, including milk, more affordable in Manitoba's most remote communities.

Making smart food choices is an important part of healthier living. To assist restaurant g oers we are collaborating with the Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association and the BC government to support the Informed Dining program in Manitoba. National chain restaurants who have signed onto the program with BC provide nutrition information on 13 core nutrients, including sodium and calories, for all their menu items. Restaurant chains participating with locations in Manitoba currently include Subway, Boston Pizza, McDonald's, Tim Hortons, and Quiznos.

Another newly launched Healthy Living initiative is the Wellness Works campaign. The fulfillment of a 2012 Throne Speech commitment, the campaign was launched late last year, thanks to a close partnership with the Manitoba Chambers of Commerce. The campaign targets employers, rather than indi viduals, and invites them to make a public commitment to creating an environment that supports health and wellness. Employers take one or several pledges on a variety of wellness topics and implementing changes according to their context, recognizing the diversity of workplaces in Manitoba.

The goal of the campaign is to have a healthier, more engaged, adult workforce which has multiple economic and social benefits. The healthy sexuality portfolio supports the work of the Rainbow Resource Centre, one of Canada's longest running lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, two- spirit, queer resource centres. For over 40 years, the Rainbow Resource Centre has worked to bolster self -acceptance and self -esteem, improve social conditions while reducing self -harm and violence, and increase the visibility and validity of LGBTTQ Manitobans.

Annual awareness events like the resource centre's provincial gay -straight alliance or GSA conference, which averages more than 500 students, teachers and youth service providers from ac ross the province, has led to Manitoba being seen as a national leader in advancing LGBTTQ rights. Through our injury -prevention partnerships, we have been able to distribute thousands of personal flotation devices and bicycle helmets across Manitoba. This year 7,208 bicycle helmets were ordered through the low -cost bicycle helmet initiative, including 884 provided at no cost to children and families with financial barriers.

Since the program began in 2006, over 97,000 helmets have been made available t o Manitoba families. Since bicycle helmet legislation was introduced last May, overall bicycle helmet use in Manitoba has improved. Through conducting bicycle helmet observational studies before and after legislation was introduced, we found that helmet-wearing rates in rural Manitoba have increased by 33 per cent and rates in Winnipeg have increased by 8 per cent. Helmets provide cyclists optimal protection and have

April 16, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2015 been shown to reduce the risk of serious head and brain injury by more than 85 per cent. In addition, this year, water safety grants continue to be disbursed to communities with iden - tified water safety needs. Distribution of these grants continues to build important local water safety capacity.

Education focus falls -prevention initiatives are delivered in partnership with osteoporosis Manitoba, including the Sip & Skip and healthy bones program, support groups, public forums, health fairs and presentations. * (15:40) The Manitoba Falls Prevention Network, co-ordinated by osteoporosis Manitoba, provides a forum for health -care providers to have discussions on falls prevention, namely through the yearly meeting of the network every October. And this department pays attention to the needs of older –our older adults.

The Seniors and Healt hy Aging Secretariat continues their ongoing work with Manitoba's Council on Aging. Together, we are ensuring that older Manitobans have a voice within our government. As Manitoba's population ages, it is necessary that our government continues to respond to the needs of older Manitobans. One pivotal action strategy has been the implementation of the Age -Friendly Manitoba Initiative. There are currently over 100 communities that have joined the age -friendly initiative. This means that 80 per cent of Manitoba's population now live in an age-friendly community.

In addition, 16 of those communities have met the milestones that recognize the full achievement of an age- friendly community. Through the Age -Friendly Manitoba Initiative, Manitoba is a national lead er in its methods to respond to the aging population and in the development of healthy-aging strategies. It is through the efforts of the Manitoba Council on Aging that older Manitobans have a voice.

With our support, the Council on Aging has been influential in bringing older Manitobans' perspectives to issues such as accessibility, active living, affordability of pharmaceuticals and other health - related resources, including housing. We are committed to ensuring older Manitobans have access to informatio n about programs and services. Through efforts of the council, and the secretariat, the Manitoba Seniors Guide has been revised and has been voraciously sought; over 1,500 calls were received through the Seniors Information Line within one week of the announcement of its availability.

Manitoba is the only jurisdiction in Canada to have a Caregiver Recognition Act. Manitoba has made significant accomplishments in increasing awareness of the valuable services provided by caregivers. In April 2014, Manitoba celebrated its third Caregiver Recognition Day with a gathering of caregivers and other stakeholders. We continue to support the Seniors Abuse Support Line. A total of 310 calls were received in the first six months of 2013- 14.

Additionally, the Manitoba Network for the Prevention of Abuse of Older Adults has developed awareness and com - munication, along with training initiatives, for service providers and communities. Manitoba's Healthy Aging Strategy includes older adults, in meaningful volunteer opportunities, and increases public awareness of the benefits of healthy lifestyles. Long -term effects include healthier, more active, balanced and connected seniors, resulting in a reduced and delayed need for health care and other support services.

In th e area of mental health, our department supports agencies committed to preventing and addressing the mental -health issues many Manitobans face. This includes peer support and public education, through organizations such as the Manitoba mood disorders assoc iation, the anxiety association of Manitoba, the Manitoba Schizophrenia Society and the Canadian Mental Health Association of Manitoba, as well as support for provincial phone line services, such as the Manitoba Suicide Line and the Manitoba Farm and Rural Support Services. Mental-health awareness and stigma reduction continues to be a major focus.

As we work to achieve awareness of mental-health issues and reduce stigma, I am happy to advise that 470 Manitoba schools are participating through the Healt hy Schools Mental Health Promotion Campaign. Additionally, 17 school-based staff members have been trained in mental-health first aid, a program for adults who interact with youth. On April 3rd, 2014, we co- led, with Ontario, the Leadership in Workplace Mental Health Forum with the Council of the Federation. This forum demonstrated best practices and successful work - place mental-health initiatives. The learnings–

2016 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 16, 2014 Mr. Chairperson: Order. The honourable minister's time has expired. We thank the minister for those comments. Does the official opposition critic have any opening comments? Mr. Graydon: No, Mr. Chairman, I don't. Mr. Chairperson: In that case, the floor is now open for questions. Mr. Graydon: I'll start off by asking the regular - type questions and the request for a list of all departmental and political staff, including their positions and whether they're full -time.

And I'd be happy if she would provide that –she doesn't have to read it–she can provide it in writing at a later date. Ms. Blady: Yes, we will provide that to you in writing at a later date, for the sake of expediency. Mr. Graydon: At the same time that the minister is doing that, Mr. Chair, would she also include whether there's the –they were hired through competition or an appointment? Ms. Blady: Yes, we can also provide that information. Mr. Graydon: And perhaps, if it's not an imposition, that she would give me a description of any position that's been reclassified? Ms.

Blady: Yes, we can get that information to the member through the Civil Service Commission. Mr. Graydon: I'd like to also request a listing of all the vacant positions, and I'd like to find out if all the staff years are filled. Ms. Blady: Yes, we can also get that information for the member. Mr. Graydon: And also like to know how many and what type of contracts are being awarded directly and how many are going to tender? Ms. Blady: Yes, that is information that would be compiled within the department and we can get that to the member at a later date. Mr.

Graydon: And I've noticed that the minister has the identical staff as the minister before her. I'm wondering, does the minister a nswer to the Minister of Health (Ms. Selby)? Because, as we know, she's a new minister and hasn't had a lot of experience, I'm just wondering if she gets her direction from the Minister of Health and answers to the Minister of Health as well. Ms. Blady: I'm sure the member has already taken a look at the organizational chart for the department, and he will note that both myself and the Minister of Health are on the same line.

There is nothing that would indicate that I take orders from another minister, that we actually share a department, and as you can see, there's different areas of responsibility for each of us. And it is actually a wonderful, collaborative and co -operative intersection of port - folios that allows us to both reap the benefits of efficiencies while meeting both the preventative and health-care needs of all Manitobans. Mr. Graydon: Just to correct the record, I didn't say that the minister took orders from anyone. I asked if she took direction, not orders.

There's a difference in that, and I'm sure she realizes that now. And, because she is new, I'm not deriding that. I'm just staying that there's a possibility with the same staff overlapping even if there are efficiencies. The senior minister, I would suggest, has a role to play in breaking in the newbie, so to speak. Ms.

Blady: Again, I do not take direction from the Minister of Health, but I can say that we have a wonderful and collaborative relationship that I, again, do believe does seek to do the best for all Manitobans in terms of ensuring a holistic continuum of care in both the preventative and health services provisions. Mr. Graydon: So, then, would the minister agree that she's a net beneficiary of the experience of the Health Minister? Ms.

Blady: I would have to say that I'm th e net beneficiary of the advice of all of my Cabinet colleagues, as well as all the members of the Chamber, as well as the stakeholders and citizens that I communicate with. There is a wealth of in - formation and a wealth of experts in this province, and I do my utmost to ensure that I maintain healthy communication and contact so that in making any decisions or giving any direction that I'm making the most informed choice for the best outcomes for the citizens of Manitoba. * (15:50) Mr.

Graydon: And could the minister give me the number of managerial positions in her department? Ms. Blady: I was just curious if the member would like the –this information in writing or if it is something that I could just list off for him at this moment.

April 16, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2017 Mr. Graydon: If I could get it in writing in a timely manner, I would appreciate that. Ms. Blady: Yes, then we can get it to you in writing then. Mr. Graydon: Are there any management positions filled by appointment? Ms. Blady: Again, that is information that we can get to the member in writing in due time. Mr. Graydon: I thought that information would be readily available, but if you're getting that to me in writing, then I would certainly ask if there has been a management pos ition filled by appointment.

After the minister has pointed out very correctly to me that she is surrounded by experts in and out of her field, I would wonder, then, why she would have to appoint someone that wouldn't have maybe came through the system. So, if she can give me the reason that someone was appointed from outside, I would certainly appreciate that as well. Ms. Blady: Yes, what we will do is we will provide you with all that information. Again, I'm offering you the provision of this information in writing for the sake of consistency based on the earlier questions.

So, yes, that information will be provided in writing as part of a whole package for the member. Mr. Graydon: Can you–at the same time, can you give me the names of all of the staff in the deputy minister's office? Ms. Blady: Yes, the staff for the deputy minister's office, which does support both ministers, includes Glenna McClenahan, Sharon Sveinson, Janet Cairns, Marilyn Warren, Karen Herd and Suzanne Ring. Mr. Graydon: Can the m inister provide me with a copy of the contracts of the department and any special operating agencies who fall under its jurisdiction? Ms.

Blady: Yes, we can get that information to you, again, printed out. Mr. Graydon: As has been pointed out by the Ombudsman's report that –or the Auditor General's report, that a lot of contracts that the NDP government have done in the past have been untendered contracts. Could the minister provide me with the untendered contracts over $1,000 in her department from 2008, 2009 to 2010, 2011, 2012 and including 2012 and '13? These are vital. Ms. Blady: Yes, we can do that for the member. Mr.

Graydon: Can the minister, just off the top of her head, in 2013–2012- 2013, can she tell me how many untendered contracts there were in that year? Ms. Blady: I want to make sure that I'm accurate with the member, so at this point, off the top of my head, I know of two sole supplier contracts, but we will follow up with the member to ensure that if there's any others that we notify him of those. Mr. Graydon: Mr.

Chair, then, at this same time, if they're getting me the contracts, I'd like to know the amount and the type of contracts being awarded directly and why this is happening and why they didn't go to tender. I'd like to have a rea soning for that. * (16:00) Ms. Blady: Yes, we can provide those details for the member when we provide the full information. Mr. Graydon: The NDP government promised to eliminate school tax on seniors. Why has that not been done? Ms.

Blady : I would sugg est to the member that as that is a taxation question, that it was probably more–be more appropriately asked of the Minister of Finance (Ms. Howard). And so when it is her opportunity in Estimates, I'm sure that she would welcome discussion of that question. Mr. Graydon: Since it has to do with seniors, I thought perhaps the minister would have an answer for that. But I–it's clear, and I've mentioned it before, that she is new in her position and so I understand that she doesn't really know everything that's going on there. However, she has brought in a bill on smoking–a smoking ban.

What type of research have you done on the implementation of the smoking ban? Ms. Blady: I just want to –maybe I didn't hear the member clearly. I just wanted to get a clarification regarding his question. Are you asking about the legislation that was introduced or are you asking of a previous legislation regarding–today was related to flavoured tobacco, so I didn't –I just wanted to get a point of clarification as to what a spect of smoking ban you're looking at. Mr.

Graydon: Well, it was difficult to follow the minister in her 10 -minute speech, but she was speaking about banning smoking in parks and in a number of other places, and also the flavoured tobacco. One thing tha t I did notice that she has

2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 16, 2014 overlooked is chew. She hasn't banned that yet. I'm just wondering what type of research she has done on this and whether she has a fear that she is going to drive some of the tobacco products underground and create a black market for them. Ms. Blady: Yes, okay, well, first of all, I guess in relationship to the role around taxation, just–I am the minister with a role regarding seniors, overseeing seniors, but it is my role to facilitate work with other departments. So, in regar ds to Finance, that's really about that minister's area of expertise.

As to the legislation around cigarettes, yes, the introductory comments did speak to previous work, and the work being done as it relates to the legislation in parks is actually legisla tion from my colleague in Conservation and Water Stewardship. So, again, that would be the minister to ask regarding that. And, as to today's legislation, yes, there actually has been a wealth of research compiled from across the country, as well as looking at research and work being done and legislation being done in other jurisdictions.

As stated earlier, when I introduced the bill, that this legislation today was geared towards addressing a loophole in federal legislation regarding flavoured tobacco, a nd specifically that it was targeted to that one specific area. Mr. Graydon: Could the minister provide for me, because she doesn't seem to have some of the answers, it's someone else's department all the time, she just kind of implements them, but she di d say that she doesn't take direction from anyone either, so could she tell me, then, in the Pharmacare program, what–has there been any changes to the program since 2011- 2012 to date?

And if she –if there have been, can she identify what they've been? Ms. Blady: Well, it is one of those things that, again, regarding this portfolio, and you referenced a question to Pharmacare, again, it's about working in collaboration with the other ministers. And as to the, you know, the Minister of Health (Ms. Selby) was here for quite a fair number of hours. So I do not step on my colleague s' toes regarding their jurisdiction. And so, again, the Minister of Health would have to be asked back to answer those questions. I, on the other hand, again, have much to offer.

If I could–if you would like, I could continue regarding our commitment and steadfast intention to reduce tobacco use. That is within my purview. And, again, we just have introduced the amendments to The Non- Smokers Health Protection Act that does prohibit th e supply of flavoured tobacco products, flavours aimed at attracting children such as grape and cherry. It does not address the smokeless products because those smokeless products were not addressed within the federal legislation and the loophole that we a re trying to fill.

Our youth smoking rates are substantially declining, and this initiative will assist in preventing youth from starting to smoke. And that's the goal. Mr. Graydon: And it's strange that the same staff can't give her the answers. So what I'm going to do is save the questions, the rest of my questions, for concurrence, and we won't need to depend on the staff, either, then. Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): I think we' re prepared to move to the considerations of the appropriation. Mr.

Chairperson, I want to provide, just for the staff, not by way of a question, but yesterday I was asking the Minister of Health regarding a potential helipad in Steinbach and reference that there was an organization that was considering doing private fundraising for such a helipad. I committed to getting to the department the name and the contact number of that individual, and they committed to me that they would contact him and have a meet ing with the organization. So I want to provide that to the department and be assured that they'll do the follow-up.

And, with that, we're prepared to move to the consideration of the appropriations. Mr. Chairperson: Okay, seeing no further questions, now we move to the resolutions. Resolution 21.2: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $35,717,000 for Health, Healthy Living and Seniors , Provincial Policy and Program s, for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2015.

Resolution agreed to. * (16:10) Resolution 21.3: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $11,105,000 for Health, Healthy Living and Seniors, Health Workforce Secretariat, for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2015. Resolution agreed to. Resolution 21.4: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding

April 16, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2019 $47,537,000 for Health, Healthy Living and Seniors, Public Health and Primary Health Care, for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2015. Resolution agreed to. Resolution 2 1.5: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $26,277,000 for Health, Healthy Living and Seniors, Regional Policy and Programs, for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2015. Resolution agreed to.

Resolution 21.6: RESOLVED that ther e be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $44,724,000 for Health, Healthy Living and Seniors, Healthy Living and Seniors, for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2015. Resolution agreed to. Resolution 21.7: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $5,025,517,000 for Health, Healthy Living and Seniors, Health Services Insurance Fund, for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2015. Resolution agreed to.

Resolution 21.8: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exc eeding $174,910,000 for Health, Healthy Living and Seniors, Capital Funding, for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2015. Resolution agreed to. Resolution 21.9: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $5,314,000 for Health, Heal thy Living and Seniors, Costs Related to Capital Assets, for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2015. Resolution agreed to.

Resolution 21.10: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $1,040,000 for Health, Healthy Living and Seniors, Capital Assets, for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2015. Resolution agreed to. The last item to be considered for the Estimates of this department is item 21.1.(a), the ministers' salaries, contained in resolution 21.1. At this point we request that the minister's staff leave the table for the consideration of this last item. The floor is open for questions. Mrs. Driedger: I don't really have too many more questions to put forward.

We will indicate to both the ministers that there will be a n umber of other questions that will take place in concurrence because we didn't have enough time in Estimates here to carry through with all of the questions. I know I still have a substantial number for Health, and I know my colleague also has a number of them for Healthy Living. So, you know, at this point, I do want to indicate a couple of things in relationship to the ministers and their roles, and certainly the Minister of Health (Ms. Selby) has demonstrated a serious lack of understanding in her portfolio.

It does cause us very serious concern about her ability to handle the various aspects of this job. We do not have confidence in her ability to do the job, and it's being reinforced every day by her responses to questions. And, in terms of the Minister of Healthy Living, it does seem questionable why she has lost her whole department.

She's now basically a junior minister under the auspices of the Minister of Health, and it is questionable about why that position is actually needed, to pay a minister's salary and then her political staff in that, and it's not clear to us the value of maintaining that with this minister in place. I t does appear to be more window dressing than anything else. So, Mr. Chair, I would move– An Honourable Member: So you'd cut it? Mrs. Driedger: Well, before I make my motion, the member for La Verendrye said we would cut it. I would point out to him that his government already cut it– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Mr. Chairperson: Order, please. Order, please. Mrs. Driedger: Anyway, perhaps the minister didn’t pay attention, but basically his department –or his government basically slashed the depart ment, and so now it is only one position that is in charge of what appears–and it's unclear exactly because it's all enmeshed and entangled in Health, so it's not really clear–What's that? [interjection] Yes, so it's not clear what the minister is actually in charge of. So I would move that the two ministerial salaries set out in line item 21.1.(

a) be reduced to $15 each.

2020 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 16, 2014 Mr. Chairperson: Order, please. Order. It has been moved by the honourable member for Charleswood (Mrs. Driedger) that the two ministerial salaries set out in a line item 21.1.(

a) be reduced to dollar 15 each–[interjection]–$15 each. The motion is in order. Are there any questions or comments on the motion? Mr. Goertzen: I heard the member for Dawson Trail (Mr. Lemieux) actually say that he thought it was a little high, actually, and I –that's sage advice. It is often lower. I think the member for Charleswood is generous often both in her comments and her actions, and I certainly know, looking at a lot of the things that happen at the committee here, I thought were disappointing and often offensive certainly to many outside this committee but also to our critic as well.

So I have an amendment to the motion. I would move that the motion be amended to replace $15 with $10. Mr. Chairperson: Order, please. Motion presented. Mr. Chairperson: The motion is in order. Are there any questions or comments on the motion? Mr. Graydon: I think both of my colleagues are being far too generous in this situation. I wish they would've confe rred with me prior to making those motions. We wouldn't have used up this valuable time. And so I move that the –an amendment to the amendment to replace $10 with $5. I think that's appropriate. Motion presented. Mr. Chairperson: The motion is in order.

Are there any questions or comments on the motion? * (16:20) Hon. Andrew Swan (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I think I can speak for everybody on this side of the table in saying their – the critic has a significant lack of credibility in her role, and you know what? It's obvious she's got a lack of credibility even with her own caucus. I don't think I've ever seen a motion like this being brought by the critic immediately undermined not once, but twice by her own caucus members. I don't know what sort of crisis of leadership they have over there, but it's certainly fascinating.

What I've also never seen, Mr. Chair, is an opposition and a critic that spends so much time in Estimates trying to distance herself, from the very words of her own leader. And, of course, we have a Leader of the Opposition that has indeed got a very, very indisputable record of cutting health care and being a proponent of American- style, two-tier health care. And it was stunning this afternoon to have the member for Charleswood try as fast as she could and as best she could to try to get away from her leader's own record and her leader's own statements on that.

And, of course –[interjection] well, we're –and here's the member for Charleswood, who's had, I think, 15 hours to ask questions, can't even give me five minutes to put some comments on the record, but what else do we expect? Of course, what did the Leader of the Opposition say on May 28th, 2013? Well, he called two- tier health care a system that we need. And w hen he was asked his opinion in the House on December 2nd about American-style, for-profit health care, he said, I'm a guy who believes that the private sector offers some competitive advantages.

In fact, it was not that long ago that he stood in the House and said that American-style health care is a better way to do things. [interjection] And, of course, as you can hear, Mr. Chair –as you can hear, he's got the full support of his caucus on wanting to continue down the road to American-style, two-tier health care. And you know what?

Every time there's a vote in the House, every time something happens in the House, they stand up, time and time again, they vote against more doctors, they vote against more nurses, they vote against more capital in the health -care system that I know that the Minister of Health (Ms. Selby) worked so tirelessly to get. And I know the Minister for Healthy Living in her time in the role has continued to improve the resources for addictions services, for mental health services in the province. And I know that the MLA for Charleswood is not new.

She's been here since 1999, but before that she worked in the Filmon government. And she was there when the Filmon government made massive cuts to health care –health-care cuts that have never been seen in this province. Of course, these were the Filmon Tories that fired 1,000 nurses, cut 15 medical school spaces, and in that time we lost 116 doctors.

April 16, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2021 And it's the credit of the Minister of Health (Ms. Selby) and her predecessors in the NDP government, not only have we got those doctors back, we've continued to increase the numbers. We've replaced each nurse that was lost under the Tories by three or four nurses now. We know that when the member for Charleswood (Mrs. Driedger) was working for the Filmon Tories, those Tories cut all new health construction, renovation and expansion; there was a freeze on health-care capital.

I'm very glad to have a Minister of Health who's prepared to get her elbows up and fight for the health- care capital that we need to keep expanding in this province. And, of course, the member is working in a government that closed one hospital in Winnipeg permanently, the Misericordia ER closed and has never reopened, and four more ERs overnight. Of course, they pretend that they are the supporters of rural health care. In that time period, they cut $37 million from rural hospitals and personal-care homes that I know had impact on so many families outside of Winnipeg. They introduced home-care user fees.

They cut the home -care services families rely on. Of course, we know they tried to privatize home care and only backed off –not from the thousands of Manitobans that came out to protest that, but when they realized the private sector really couldn't offer any advantages, they o ffered poorer service and more expenses. And, of course, we now know that their leader, who they're trying to distance themselves from, has called for $550 million in cuts across the board, indiscriminate cuts. We know that health care continues to be the biggest item in our budget, some 40 per cent of the budget.

I can't even imagine what the Leader of the Opposition's cuts would mean for the health-care system. So, if I could, I would actually move my own motion, suggesting a raise for the Minister of Health and a raise for the Minister of Healthy Living, but I won't. I think that –[interjection] I won't? We're going to–we'll be voting down, I suppose, all three of the motions or, you know, maybe this is the way you do things in caucus. Maybe there's a couple more motions that they'll be putting forward because clearly they can't speak with one voice.

Their leader says something and they spend the next year and a half trying to run away from it. So it's no surprise I will not be supporting any one of the three motions we've heard this afternoon. Mr. Goertzen: I appreciated the–getting a preview of the minister's leadership speech for the upcoming leadership convention. Hopefully, he has the opportunity to finish this leadership race when this one is under way– An Honourable Member: When's your race? Mr. Goertzen: Oh, I don't intend to run for the NDP leadership race.

Although, you know, I suppose if there's enough people who are asking, I guess we could consider almost anything but that might be even a stretch too far in the miraculous thing. I do think that the amendments will give an opportunity for the government and I actually think all the amendments are good. All three of them are positive amendments. I can't– Mr. Chairperson: Order, please. We w ant to hear the member. Let me hear the member. Thank you. Mr. Goertzen: I think that one touched a nerve with the Attorney General (Mr. Swan). I don't know why.

I–he's run some half -marathons before, so he's run half -leadership races. There shouldn't be any difference. But I do think, you know, when you look at the amendments and the subamendments, that all three of them are good and all three of them have value. I think I'll support all three. I'd be happy to see any of them pass, Mr. Chairperson.

I think that they would all be for the betterment of Manitobans, send a message to both of these ministers but, in particular, the Minister of Health, who, I think, has had some challenges in these Estimates, and they sort of point to challenges that will happ en in the future as well. But she'll have the opportunity over the rest of today, and perhaps over Monday and perhaps going into Tuesday, to consider some of the things that she's done and not done in these Estimates and how she could proceed in a more res pectful way for Manitobans going forward into the future.

And I want to commend the member for Minto (Mr. Swan) for putting forward his leadership comments early and getting ahead of the race quickly, very similar to the speech that the current leader gives but it was delivered better, I'll say that– not really different in terms of substance but was more articulate, I think, and delivered better and that might hold him in good stead in his leadership race, and I wish him well.

2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 16, 2014 But I do think we should m ove on and deal with these amendments that are before us. Mr. Chairperson: Is the committee ready for the question? Some Honourable Members: Question. Mr. Chairperson: Shall the motion pass? Some Honourable Members: Yes. Some Honourable Members: No. Mr. Chairperson: I hear no. Shall the motion for the subamendment pass, that the amendment be amended to replace dollar ten with dollar five? Some Honourable Members: No. Mr. Chairperson: Ten dollars with five dollars? Some Honourable Members: Yes. Some Honourable Members: No. Mr. Chairperson: So, I hear no. Voice Vote Mr. Chairperson: All those

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Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	40-3-44
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	40th 3rd hansardpdf 44.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	5588a10912f74d0efb8f4e9548a527c3e033ea2a

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