Manitoba Hansard — Sitting 09 (38th Legislature, 2nd Session)

38-2-09

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Second Session - Thirty-Eighth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. LV No. 9– 1:30 p.m., Tuesday, December 2, 2003

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Eighth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation AGLUGUB, Cris The Maples N.D.P. ALLAN, Nancy, Hon. St. Vital N.D.P. ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thom pson N.D.P. BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli N.D.P. BRICK, Marilyn St. Norbert N.D.P. CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P. CUMMINGS, Glen Ste. Rose P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P. DOER, Gary, Hon. Concordia N.D.P. DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside P.C.

FAURSCHOU, David Portage la Prairie P.C. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach P.C. HAWRANIK, Gerald Lac du Bonnet P.C. HICKES, George, Hon. Point Douglas N.D.P. IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri Fort Garry N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. JHA, Bidhu Radisson N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LAMOUREUX, Kevin Inkster Lib. LATHLIN, Oscar, Hon. The Pas N.D.P. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. LOEWEN, John Fort Whyte P.C. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns N.D.P. MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood N.D.P. MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon.

Lord Roberts N.D.P. MELNICK, Christine, Hon. Riel N.D.P. MIHYCHUK, MaryAnn, Hon. Minto N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East P.C. MURRAY, Stuart Kirkfield Park P.C. NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake N.D.P. OSWALD, Theresa Seine River N.D.P. PENNER, Jack Emerson P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. REIMER, Jack Southdale P.C. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. ROCAN, Denis Carman P.C. RONDEAU, Jim, Hon. Assiniboia N.D.P. ROWAT, Leanne Minnedosa P.C. SALE, Tim, Hon. Fort Rouge N.D.P. SANTOS, Conrad Wellington N.D.P. SCHELLENBERG, Harry Rossmere N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield P.C. SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St.

Boniface N.D.P. SMITH, Scott, Hon. Brandon West N.D.P. STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon. Dauphin-Roblin N.D.P. TAILLIEU, Mavis Morris P.C. TWEED, Mervin Turtle Mountain P.C. WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. Swan River N.D.P.

283 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Tuesday, December 2, 2003 The House met at 1:30 p.m. PRAYERS ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS PETITIONS Highway 32 Mr. Peter Dyck (Pembina): I wish to present the following petition. These are the reasons for this petition: Rural highways are part of the mandate of the Province of Manitoba. Under a previous commitment, the Province of Manitoba would be covering the costs of four- laning that portion of Highway 32 that runs through Winkler, Manitoba.

The Department of Transportation and Gov- ernment Services has altered its position and will now undertake the project only if the City of Winkler will pay half of the total cost of con- struction. The provincial government's offload- ing of its previous commitment will cost the City of Winkler several million dollars. The City of Winkler has now been informed that it will have to wait several years before this project could be undertaken.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the Minister of Transportation and Government Services to consider honouring the previous commitment and complete the four- laning of Highway 32 through the city of Wink- ler, absorbing all costs related to the construction as previously agreed. To request the Minister of Transportation and Government Services to consider the re- sponsibility of the Department of Transportation and Government Services for the construction of rural highways.

To request the Minister of Transportation and Government Services to consider the sig- nificant and strategic importance of the comple- tion of four-laning Highway 32 through the city of Winkler, especially as it relates to the eco- nomic growth and the development of the city of Winkler and its trading area. To request the Minister of Transportation and Government Services to consider the valu- able contribution of the city of Winkler and its trading area to the provincial economy and reprioritize the four-laning of Highway 32 for the 2004 construction season. These are submitted by C.

Hildebrand, Deanna Thiessen, Nettie Dueck, Derek Hiebert and others. Mr. Speaker: In accordance with our Rule 132(6), when a petition is read it is deemed to be received by the House. * (13:35) Co-op Program for Nursing Students Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): I wish to present the following petition to the Legisla- tive Assembly of Manitoba. The background to the petition is as follows: A co-op program for nursing students at the University of Manitoba was approved by the Senate and the Board of Governors.

This program will provide the opportunity for students to apply their theoretical knowledge in the workplace through supervised work terms for which they are paid. Students are hired by participating agencies under supervision of a workplace employee who serves as a mentor.

284 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 2, 2003 Students assume responsibilities suitable for their level of knowledge and expertise and will provide patients with much-needed nursing. The co-op program will enable nursing stu- dents to acquire valuable experience by working with a seasoned mentor, become more proficient and better able to handle heavier workloads and increase their knowledge, skills and confidence. This program will enable students to earn in- come to help reduce their debt load.

The Department of Health will benefit through reduced orientation costs for new gradu- ates and an increased likelihood that new gradu- ates will remain in the province. Although the Minister of Health (Mr. Chomiak) was unable to attend the round table held on November 7, 2003, he graciously sent a representative who restated his position to work with the students to reach a creative solution. Several Canadian un iversities have success- fully implemented nursing co-op programs. Sev- eral faculties within the University of Manitoba have such a program available to their students.

Therefore, students within the Faculty of Nurs- ing should have equal opportunity and access to a co-op program. This program will offer students valuable experience and provide the confidence and strength they will need in the future. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the Legislative Assembly to con- sider supporting the proposed co-op program. Signed by Zenaida Browning, Des Paluck, Ted Stevenson and others. Mr. Speaker: In accordance with our Rule 132(6), when a petition is read it is deemed to be received by the House. Sales Tax Proposal Mrs.

Bonnie Mitchels on (River East): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition. These are the reasons for this petition: The Mayor of Winnipeg is proposing a new deal which will result in new user fees and addi- tional taxes for citizens of the city of Winnipeg. One of these proposed changes requires the provincial government to approve an increase of the sales tax. The Balanced Budget, Debt Repayment and Taxpayer Accountability Act requires a referen- dum to take place before the provincial govern- ment can increase major taxes, including the re- tail sales tax.

The Doer government has been silent on whether they will make the necessary legislative changes required to give the City of Winnipeg additional taxing powers. Taxpayers deserve to have a say before hav- ing any major new taxes imposed upon them. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the Premier of Manitoba (Mr. Doer) notify the City of Winnipeg that the provincial government will not allow an increase of the sales tax without a referendum being held as required under balanced budget legislation. This petition is signed by Maria Spielvogel, E. Malbasa, W.

Helgason and others. Mr. Speaker: In accordance with our Rule 132(6), when a petition is read it is deemed to be received by the House. * (13:40) Walleye Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition. The background to this petition is as follows: Mr. Speaker, fish stocks in Lake Winnipego- sis began to decline in the 1960s. The walleye fishery on Lake Winnipegosis has been in seri- ous trouble for many years. A similar situation happened in Lake Erie but it was handled much more effectively. In

December 2, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 285 Lake Erie, a sound science-based management program was implemented and the stocks re- bounded. As a result, production of walleye on Lake Erie for 1980 to 2001 averaged 182 percent of the historic estimated sustainable yield. In contrast, from 1980 to 2001, the average annual harvest of walleye on Lake Winnipegosis was about 14 percent of the estimated sustain- able yield for the lake. Much better management of the walleye fishery on Lake Erie shows that good manage- ment of a walleye fishery is possible.

The fishermen on Lake Winnipegosis have been deprived of an estimated $72 million of in- come between 1980 and 2001. Economic models of the effects of such pri- mary income loss usually estimate a significant multiplier effect and that may well mean a loss of several hundred million dollars in economic activity for the region. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the Minister of Finance and the Auditor General to consider undertaking a thor- ough investigation of the provincial management of the walleye fishery on Lake Winnipegosis.

Signed by Louie Genaille, Ervin Baumung, Cory Nepinak and others. Mr. Speaker: In accordance with our Rule 132(6), when a petition is read it is deemed to be received by the House. Red River Floodway Expansion Mrs. Mavis Taillieu (Morris): I wish to present the following petition. These are the reasons for the petition: The provincial and federal governments have indicated they will proceed with a multi- million expansion of the Red River Floodway.

The provincial government says it is "com- mitted to ensuring that any remaining issues from 1997 are addressed and that residents are compensated for any artificial flooding. . ." (Province of Manitoba press release, December , 2002). 9 The provincial government announced it would introduce "flood compensation legislation to give citizens the right to financial compen- sation if they experience artificial flooding due to floodway operation, including residents living south of the floodway." (Province of Manitoba press release, December 9, 2002) Manitobans living both south and north of the Red River Floodway have raised concerns about the potential negative socio-economic im- pacts on an expanded floodway such as the pros- pect of artificial flooding and associated losses.

Manitobans are concerned about the ade- quacy of compensation programs for past and future floods. Manitobans have also asked whether suf- ficient consideration has been given to all the proposed flood mitigation initiatives to ensure the most viable option will be used. Groups such as the Ritchot Concerned Citi- zens have expressed concern about their inability to get information about the past and future operation of the floodway, among other issues related to governments' handling of the flooding in the Red River Valley. There are a number of unresolved claims re- lated to the 1997 flood of the century.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the provincial and federal governments consider settling outstanding claims from the 1997 flood of the century before proceeding with a major expansion of the Red River Floodway. To request that the provincial government consider ensuring that flood compensation mechanisms are evaluated, updated and enacted before a major expansion of the Red River Floodway proceeds. To request that the provincial government consider clarifying outstanding flood-related

286 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 2, 2003 issues, such as the threat of artificial flooding and the public's desire for clarification with res- pect to the floodway operating rules. Signed by Maxine Clifton, Robert Starr, Richard Klassen and others. * (13:45) Mr. Speaker: In accordance with our Rule 132(6), when a petition is read it is deemed to be received by the House. TABLING OF REPORTS Mr. Speaker: In accordance with

section 42 of The Ombudsman Act, I am pleased to table the Annual Report of the Ombudsman for the calen- dar year January 1, 2002 to December 31, 2002. Hon. Scott Smith (Minister charged with the administration of the Liquor Control Act): I am pleased to table the Manitoba Liquor Control Commission's Six-Month Report for the period April 1 to September 30, 2003. Hon. Oscar Lathlin (Minister charged with the administration of the Communities Eco- nomic Development Fund Act): Mr.

Speaker, I would like to table the Communities Economic Development Fund Annual Report for 2003 and the Quarterly Financial Statements for the Quar- ter ending September 30, 2003. INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 9–The Manitoba Immigration Council Act Hon. Nancy Allan (Minister of Labour and Immigration): I move, seconded by the Minis- ter of Culture, Heritage and Tourism (Mr. Rob- inson), that Bill 9, The Manitoba Immigration Council Act;

Loi sur le Conseil de l'immigration du Manitoba, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Ms. Allan: Bill 9, The Manitoba Immigration Council Act, would allow for the appointment of a 12-member commission with representation from business, labour and multicultural organi- zations that would help the Province in its goal of increasing its annual level of immigration to 10 000 people and keep them here in Manitoba. Motion agreed to. Introduction of Guests Mr. Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the Speaker's Gallery where we have with us Mr.

Michael Funke of Carman and Mr. Mel Montgomery of Winnipeg. These visitors are the guests of the honourable Member for Rossmere (Mr. Schellenberg). Also in the public gallery we have from Athlone School 53 Grade 5 students under the direction of Mr. Ed Hume and Mrs. Renee McGurry. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable Leader of the Official Opposition (Mr. Murray). Also seated in the public gallery we have from Prairie Rose School Division 21 Grade 12 students under the direction of Mr. Trevor Boehm. This school is located in the constitu- ency of the honourable Member for Morris (Mrs.

Taillieu). On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you here today. ORAL QUESTION PERIOD James Driskell Case Independent Inquiry Mr. Stuart Murray (Leader of the Official Opposition): Yesterday, Mr. Speaker, after the Doer government sat on their hands for a full year as Mr. Driskell sat behind bars, and in the face of growing pressure to take action, the light has finally come on with this Premier and this Justice Minister. Although the Premier should have taken action a year ago when the DNA results were known, we are pleased that they finally reversed their position and are now supportive of Mr.

Driskell's case being reviewed and referred back to the courts. However, the fact that they have sent a letter to Ottawa does not excuse this Premier or his inaction on this matter.

December 2, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 287 Will the Premier accept his responsibility for the incompetence in the way they have handled this issue? Will he do the right thing and will he ask and bring forward an independent public inquiry? Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr. Speaker, the member opposite will probably know that there was a review of the matter back in the 1990s. The former Minister of Justice asked the depart- ment to review the matter. Mr. Dangerfield provided a report then to Mr. McCrae. * (13:50) Mr.

Speaker, I think it is important to note that this Minister of Justice authorized the pay- ment for and the proceeding with the hair evi- dence to the London labs, authorizing some $32,000 to deal with the issues arising from the Driskell case. When those results were made available from the London lab, those results were provided to Mr. Driskell's defence counsel. So, certainly, there was initiative taken and au- thorization made by the Minister of Justice in this regard. There are a number of other issues, Mr.

Speaker, and I am sure the member opposite will ask further questions and I will try to respond to them in a timely way. Mr. Murray: Mr. Speaker, it is interesting. The Premier just admits they had the information a year ago on the DNA and they sat on it. Then it is unacceptable. I am not sure if he is trying to distance himself from the Minister of Justice or from this case. What we are asking for is an independent public inquiry. The Justice Minister knows full well he has the authority and the power to do so. The problem is I do not know if he has the courage. The Government can do more than write a letter.

They have the opportunity to get to the bottom of what happened to ensure that it never happens again, and they can do so by simply ordering an independent public inquiry. Rather than be satisfied with the review that was introduced which is very limited in scope and does not require sworn testimony, will the Premier show Mr. Driskell and Manitobans that he and his Justice Minister have the ability to make this transparent, do the right thing and call for an independent public inquiry? Mr. Doer: Well, let me correct a statement made by the Leader of the Opposition.

It is not the only review that we have available to us. The issue of the material evidence that was obtained for purposes of this investigation, obtained from the files of the past and forwarded to the London lab with authorization of payment made by the Minister of Justice; that information, I am informed, was provided to the defence lawyers of Mr. Driskell, obviously very, very important new evidence dealing with a very, very impor- tant part of the original trial. Secondly, Mr.

Speaker, the issue of the narrow review, and it is na rrow, only deals with the allegation made by the chief of police that the materials they had were made available to the Crown attorney's office at the time and that they had that report. In terms of the integrity of the justice system, it has to be very clear that there cannot be arguments between the chief of police in Winnipeg and the Prosecutions branch of the Province of Manitoba. That narrow issue will be reviewed in a narrow way to deal with the credibility of the justice system. Mr.

Driskell's lawyer today reiterated what I believe is important, that the trial or the retrial or the justice review of Mr. Driskell must go forward to deal with the questions raised by the evidence of the hair and other issues of evidence that are in question. The issue of his guilt or innocence must be dealt with, Mr. Speaker. That is the paramount concern and that still leaves open to us the issues dealing with the justice system, the systemic issues in the justice system that I guarantee to the public of Manitoba we will have a systemic review of those issues. Mr. Murray: Mr.

Speaker, what is interesting about the First Minister's response to that ques- tion is he is publicly admitting that this is going to be a very narrow review. Mr. Speaker, this Premier, this Minister of Justice, sat on information for a year. Surely to goodness,he would have the decency to do the right thing. Rather than in his own words talk about a very narrow scope, he should do the

288 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 2, 2003 right thing, be transparent and call for an inde- pendent public inquiry, unless he is trying to sweep something under the rug and has some- thing to hide. Do the right thing. Call for an in- dependent public inquiry today. He has the abili- ty to do so. It is the right thing to do. Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, I will have to reread a transcript of an interview with the defence lawyer today. As I recall the interview, he very clearly stated that the issue now before the justice system, if you will, is to deal with the issue of Mr. Driskell's guilt or innocence. Mr.

Speaker, he has already been proven guilty in a court of law. Some of the factors that have led to that conviction have been raised, including the DNA evidence this Minister of Justice (Mr. Mackintosh) took the initiative to authorize payment to deal with that. That evidence was given by the Justice Department to the defence lawyers I am informed. * (13:55) Mr. Speaker, the issue of the conviction must be dealt with. The minister has asked for it to be dealt with in a timely way. We are not prepared to close any door.

The issue of the systemic issues in the ju stice system, the public has a right to review all of those issues in an independent way. Once the issues of guilt and innocence are dealt with, we are absolutely prepared to ensure the public that they have an independent review of all of the systemic cir- cumstances leading to the conviction and leading to the subsequent decision that has not yet been made by the federal Justice ministry. James Driskell Case Justice Minister's Involvement Mr. Gerald Hawran ik (Lac du Bonnet): Mr.

Speaker, in 1995 as the Just ice critic, this Justice Minister promised to help James Driskell. He told Driskell: If I get into power, then I can do something to help you. Rather than help James Driskell, this Justice Minister has been doing everything in his power to stop Driskell from proving that he is innocent. He even reneged on his verbal promise to have Legal Aid fund Driskell's application to prove his innocence, yet he permits Legal Aid to pay millions to fund the defence of the Hells Angels.

Why did this Justice Minister not have the courage to move this case forward a year ago instead of leaving James Driskell in prison? Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Mr. Speaker, members opposite obviously are shameless. Mr. Speaker, this a matter that sat dormant under their watch through most of the 1990s. What is important now is how this matter is proceeding. I can say that, on coming into office, the issue of DNA evidence became very im- portant. We ensured there was payment for that, that it was sent to the laboratory. We got that evidence back a year ago.

That was provided to the Driskell team. We worked with the police to get that evidence. We worked with the police to get their internal report . We have worked co- operatively with both the federal government and AIDWYC, and we will continue to do that. Mr. Hawranik: Mr. Speaker, the promises of this Justice Minister mean nothing. By the Justice Minister's lack of action, he never had any intention to fulfil his promise to James Driskell. Instead, he offered only false hope to a person sentenced to prison for a crime that he may not have committed.

This minister lacks credibility, he is incompetent, and Manitobans do not trust him. Will this minister admit that the promise he made to James Driskell in 1995 was never meant to be kept, but instead the minister was using James Driskell for his own political purposes? Mr. Mackintosh: I will ignore the vivid imagin- ation of the member opposite. Mr. Speaker, following the DNA evidence being analyzed and its return here, there were continuing discussions with AIDWYC, I under- stand.

I personally wrote to AIDWYC and I said I have given considerable thought to whether my department can trigger a review by the Minister of Justice for Canada, pursuant to the new pro- visions in

section 696 of the Criminal Code. Facially, it would app ear that applications must be brought at the instance of the person

December 2, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 289 convicted or someone acting on his or her behalf. I would, therefore, once again urge Mr. Driskell to initiate a review under this provision. If he has not done so by July 1, 2003, I will consider writing to the Minister of Justice to ask the Government of Canada to commence a review, either at my own instance or on its own initiative. Mr. Speaker, we have been urging this review. I am glad it is underway. Independent Inquiry Mr.

Gerald Hawranik (Lac du Bonnet): Yesterday, the Justice Minister promised that he would look into what we can do as a province and he further promised that the Driskell case will be prioritized and moved forward on a time- ly basis. Will the Justice Minister break these promises or will he do what he can do, that is, call for an independent public inquiry to ensure that the Driskell case never happens again in Manitoba? Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): The question about an independent public inquiry is a good question, but it is the wrong time and it is the wrong House. Mr.

Speaker, th ere are two independent reviews currently ongoing. The first is the issue of disclosure being looked at by a former judge. Right now, what is critical is the federal process that yesterday we asked to be prioritized and moved along on a timely basis. * (14:00) I know Mr. Driskell and representatives on his behalf want to ensure that this federal pro- cess moves along and moves along expedi- tiously. It may end up in the Court of Appeal. There may be an opinion sought from the Court of Appeal, maybe a verdict, maybe a verdict from the courts. That is job one, Mr. Speaker.

Whether there should be a public review should follow on that. Point of Order Mr. Speaker: The honourable Official Oppo- sition House Leader, on a point of order. Mr. Leonard Derkach (Official Opposition House Leader): Yes, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the minister if he is prepared to table the letter which he quoted from in his first response to the member from Lac du Bonnet. Mr. Speaker: The honourable Government House Leader, on the same point of order? Mr. Mackintosh: Yes, I would like to table that letter. Mr.

Speaker: On the point of order raised by the honourable Official Opposition House Lead- er, this should take care of the matter. James Driskell Case Justice Minister's Involvement Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): The Minis- ter of Justice in this House, in 1997 as the Justice critic then, said that the reputation of Justice is affected by allegations of injustice and that it is the minister's responsibility to respond. Mr.

Speaker, does the Minister of Justice still believe it is the responsibility of his minis- try, of this provincial level of government to respond to injustice, or has he filed that state- ment with the broken promise of help that he made to James Driskell? Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I know Mr. Driskell seeks a remedy to his conviction. Whether there should be a public inquiry into what took place on systemic issues is certainly a live issue, Mr. Speaker, but job one is dealing with the matter of the conviction under 696 of the Criminal Code.

Surely the member opposite is not sug- gesting that there be a public inquiry to interfere with any ongoing criminal matters. Independent Inquiry Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Mr. Driskell seeks a remedy, but Manitobans seek the truth. Our courts are backlogged with child pornog- raphy cases that dragged on for half a decade. Criminal organization trials take months just to get started in Manitoba. Now the Justice Minis- ter is up to his old tricks of delay and deflect. Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Justice stated in this very House in 1994 that when we hear the

290 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 2, 2003 words "justice delayed is justice denied," it is justice denied for everyone. Will he now stand up to the commitments and the words that he said in the past and bring justice to all Manitobans by calling for a public inquiry? Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I can hardly take seri- ously a political party that stands up in this House and urges the Justice Minister to direct prosecutions at a bail hearing.

In modern Cana- dian history I do not think a political party has been calling on a government anywhere, as they have, for political partis an interference in a mat- ter before the courts. At the same time, Mr. Speaker, there are criminal proceedings that may well follow from the

section 696 review of the federal govern- ment. They must take its course, and then the issue of public review will still be a live issue. Mr. Goertzen: Mr. Speaker, that non-answer makes it clear that this minister refuses to take leadership and to do his job for Manitobans. It is also a far cry from the now apparent rhetoric which this minister yielded when he was in opposition.

In 1995, the current Minister of Jus- tice stood in this House and said while demand- ing a public inquiry into a case of domestic violence, that sitting on information for eight months was unacceptable and that the time was up to call an inquiry. This minister has now sat on information for more than a year. Will he now stand up and in- stead of being shamed into action, listen to his own words and call for a public inquiry on be- half of all Manitobans? Mr.

Mackintosh: It is this Government that looked into these matters and made sure there was a DNA analysis, made sure it was disclosed, worked co-operatively with AIDWYC, has urged a federal review to be pursued by the Driskell team, has said that we would do what we could if the Driskell team did not pursue the federal review. It is this Government that is urging a fast-tracking of that federal review process and it is also this Government that will not upset what Mr. Driskell has been seeking and that is a referral back to the courts of Man- itoba and further criminal processes.

I am disappointed in the members opposite for suggesting that th e Government interfere with criminal proceedings, Mr. Speaker. Let us just quote from Mr. Driskell's counsel when he talks about what is needed. Mr. Lockyer says square one is let us deal with Mr. Driskell's case and finish it. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Before I go to the next question, I would like to ask the co-operation of all honourable members. It is very, very difficult to hear the questions and the answers. We also have the viewing public and also guests in the Chamber.

I am sure they wish to hear the ques- tions and the answers also. That is probably why they are here. So I ask the co-operation of all onourable members, please. h Health Care System Emergency Room Services Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Mr. Speaker, despite the insensitive callous com- ments of the Health Minister yesterday, other Manitobans including Chief Medical Examiner Doctor Balachandra recognize the seriousness of what happened to Dorothy Madden and are concerned about what went wrong. Doctor Balachandra has stated publicly that the six hours Mrs.

Madden waited in the emergency room was unacceptable and is demanding improvements be made to how our emergency rooms deal with patients. Can the Minister of Health explain what steps are being taken to address this? Hon. Tim Sale (Acting Minister of Health): I think the first thing is to express the same kind of concern that any of us would feel when anyone died, whether the death was avoidable or unavoidable. There is alwa ys a great amount of sadness and there is always grief. There is also grief for the medical sy stem when it loses a patient whether it is avoidable or unavoidable.

I know members opposite who have been in that profession know that, and I think we should be treating this subject with a great deal more dignity and a lot less blame than we have to date. Mr. Speaker, I think th e great difference that is in place in all of our hospitals today that was

December 2, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 291 not in place when 12 babies died earlier in the 1990s is that when there is a critical incident, there is a process for dealing with that incident or recognizing it at the hospital level. Mrs. Driedger: Mr. Speaker, Doctor Bala- chandra has clearly stated his concern that there may be other patients having heart attacks who are waiting too long for care and is asking that hospitals put specific procedures in place for when ERs become overcrowded. Can the Minister of Health (Mr. Chomiak) tell us when those specific procedures will be put in place?

Can he indicate if he is aware of any other patients having heart attacks who have waited too long for care? Mr. Sale: The hospital in question, St. Boniface Hospital, immediately launched the appropriate review, which is following a protocol the hos- pital has where there are unexplained or deaths which were not anticipated given the apparent condition of the patient. That process has been under way for some time.

Recommendations have been made and the hospital is striving to improve its ability to detect conditions which, I think as the member opposite knows as a nurse, sometimes heart attacks are what are called silent heart attacks and it is very difficult some- times for either the patient or the family or the medical profession to immediately recognize what the cause of apparent distress has been, Mr. Speaker. Mrs. Driedger: Mr. Speaker, this was not very silent. She had several episodes of actual real pain. *(14:10) Dorothy Madden Inquest Mrs.

Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): There are absolutely no excuses for a patient to go to an emergency room with chest pain, be triaged as urgent and then not be seen by a doctor for six hours. This is unacceptable and rather than make excuses and attempt to deflect blame, the Minister of Health should be taking immediate action to find out what happened so he can take real steps to prevent it from happening again. Will the Minister of Health (Mr. Chomiak) commit today to calling an inquest into the death of Dorothy Madden? Will he do his job and stand up for patients? Hon. Tim Sale (Acting Minister of Health): Mr.

Speaker, let us be very clear on this. I believe it is not acceptable to our Government, it is not acceptable to members opposite, it is not acceptable to Doctor Balachandra, and frankly I do not believe it is acceptable to anyone in St. Boniface Hospital, that someone should sit for six hours and not be seen by a physician, even though at the time they might deny having any chest pain or any symptoms that were suggestive of a very serious conditi on. It is still unaccept- able and we are very clear about that.

We do not accept the idea that someone should present in hospital with a score that rates them as urgent and not be seen for six hours. That is why Doc- tor Balachandra is investigating this situation, and it is why I believe it is his call as to what ought to be done in terms of any further review that he may indicate. He, also, as you know– Mr. Speaker: The honourable Member for Charleswood, on a new question? Mrs. Driedger: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, on a new question. Mr.

Speaker, there does need to be an in- quest into Dorothy Madden's death to determine what went wrong, where the deficiencies were and identify what changes need to be made to help prevent a similar incident from occurring ever again. Will the minister do the right thing and order an inquest into the death of Mrs. Madden? If he truly believes what he was just saying, will he go the next step, the right step and order an inquest? Mr.

Sale: As members of the House and Manitobans know, the Chief Medical Examiner, Doctor Balachandra, has already commented that, in his view based on the autopsy results, this was not a preventable death given the degree of injury that had occurred earlier to this person's heart. The practice in Manitoba, Mr. Speaker, is that the call for inquest is made by those who

292 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 2, 2003 have the technical and medical knowledge as to whether an inquest is likely to provide useful information or recommendations, which is the purpose of an inquest, and that is something which I believe is the appropriate purview of Doctor Balachandra, and if he, of course, sug- gests that will happen, it will happen. Mrs. Driedger: Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Health (Mr. Chomiak) ignored my warnings about the problems in cardiac surgery.

He ig- nored my suggestion at that time to call an inde- pendent review of the program, and he never started that process until after 11 patients had died. I would ask the Minister of Health: Will he do the right thing this time and call for an inquest into the death of Dorothy Madden? Let us get to the bottom of this before any more patients die waiting for care in our emergency rooms. Mr.

Sale: I think, all members will remember that last year we had a very thorough review by an outside cardiac specialist who worked with our specialists, with our nurses' teams, with our hospitals, made very sound recommendations in regard to the management of cardiac care in Manitoba. The Koshal report has been acted on and is being acted on. We have announced the centra- lization of the program in one hospital. Mr. Speaker, no health care system is per- fect, and any avoidable death is one avoidable death too many.

It appears in the case that has been discussed, the sad truth is that this person's death was unavoidable. We can learn, however, from the care that was given that we can im- prove that care, and every day we go to work determined to improve the care of Manitobans in our health care system. Mrs. Driedger: Mr. Speaker, all patients have the right to be seen in a timely manner and have care in a timely manner. After Herman Rogalsky died waiting for care, our Minister of Health (Mr.

Chomiak) was quoted in the Winnipeg Free Press saying, and I quote: I do not see myself as an advocate for the system here, I see myself as advocating on behalf of the family against the system. If I do not, and there are problems, I might not see them. Mr. Speaker, I suggest to you that this Minister of Health needs to call an inquest today because if he does not see the problems, he is not going to be able to fix them. Will the Minister of Health be an advocate for patients today, do the right thing and call an inquest into the death of Dorothy Madden? Mr.

Sale: Our Government has been an advo- cate for patients ever since we formed govern- ment. We have tripled the number of nurses in training. We have increased the number of doc- tors in training. We have increased the number of technician training opportunities after they were shut down, sadly, by the previous gov- ernment, Mr. Speaker. We have increased the specialty training for emergency room and ICU nurses. Mr. Speaker, every day we see the results of having tripled the numbers of nurses.

We have 90 percent of those nurses who have graduated staying in our prov- ince helping to deal with the incredible systemic shortage of nurses which was caused by the previous government's Connie Curran strategies in regard to our hospitals and health care. Finally, Mr. Speaker, it is clearly Doctor Balachandra's right and if he feels it his respon- sibility, to call for an inquest. The members know that we depend on the medical profession and professional judgment for such inquests. That is our policy. Sunrise School Division Funding Mrs.

Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): When the Government brought $428,000 to the table to end a labour dispute in Sunrise School Division, the division was told that it would be written into the base funding for the division and remain as part of the funding that the division receives annually. In an

article in the Beausejour Review, Ken Bell, the superintendent for Sunrise School Division stated, and I quote: Our understanding at the time, it was made clear to the division that the money was to be supplied by a base funding allocation.

December 2, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 293 My question for the Minister of Education: Why has the Government reneged on its promise to commit the $428,000 into the base funding of Sunrise School Division? Hon. Peter Bjornson (M inister of Education, Citizenship and Youth): Mr. Speaker, the com- mitment was provided within the funding formu- la budget, as we have said repeatedly. It was approved through the normal government pro- cesses. These allocations of funds will take place over the next three years, including $112,000 this year. The bottom line was we had students who were not going to school.

We had student aides who were not there to help children with special needs. We did what we had to do to get the children back to school. Mrs. Stefanson: Mr. Speaker, it is evident from comments made by the superintendent of Sun- rise School Division, Mr. Ken Bell, who was at the negotiating table, that the $428,000 that was offered by this Government to settle the labour dispute was to be part of the base funding of the school division. Mr.

Speaker, why did this Government promise just prior to an election campaign that the money would be built into the base funding and one month after the election renege on their deal? Mr. Bjornson: Mr. Speaker, the situation in Sunrise is a very unique situation with respect to the disparity in the wages. We provided the nec- essary funds to harmonize those wages. This is part of the amalgamation process.

Amalgamation is doing what it was intended to do: streamlining operations, creating new effi- ciencies, rationalizing the programs within the school divisions, putting more resources back in the classroom where they belong. Mr. Speaker: The honourable Member for Tuxedo. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Please, one member at a time question and one member at a time answer. Please. The honourable Member for Tuxedo has he floor. t * (14:20) Mrs. Stefanson: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

This Government has repeatedly re- fused to answer questions surrounding the scan- dal that took place in Sunrise School Division last spring. I would like to at this point in time table a letter for the House. Mr. Speaker, in a letter to the Premier from the Sunrise School Division dated September 26, which I just tabled for the House, it was made very clear by the school division, and I quote: That this money, the $428,000, was to be sup- plied through a base budget allocation. Both the Government and the mediator acknowledged the need for the base budget approach.

We must point out that this agr eement has been breached at this time. Can the Premier explain why his Govern- ment reneged on a deal put forward by his own political appointee, Mr. Schreyer, to offer the $428,000 into base budget funding to end a labour dispute? Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): The member opposite practises selective information. I recall a letter thanking the provincial government, the person the member opposite insults in her com- ments, Mr. Speaker, thanking him for his assist- ance with the mediator. That was I think public in April of the same year.

There are issues that ha ve been raised by the school division to the Province on the three-year funding and the base budget. I expect that those matters will be resolved when the next Budget is tabled in the Legislature. James Driskell Case Review Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): I was pleased to hear the Premier's determination to have a thorough, independent and systemic re- view of the systemic problems within the justice system. I would ask the Premier whether he can today provide details of the timing and the na- ture of this review.

294 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 2, 2003 Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr. Speaker, the people of Manitoba have a right and we have a responsibility to deal with the systemic issues that are involved. If I recall correctly, today, in listening to an interview, the lawyer for Mr. Driskell stated: Square one is let us deal with Mr. Driskell's case and finish it. We agree. Then let us deal with the other issues in terms of the ublic good. p We will follow that sequence, Mr. Speaker. First of all, we want to deal with Mr. Driskell.

Secondly, I think that all of us have a respon- sibility to ensure that the justice system right back to 1991, or the first time that the charges were laid, has operated in a way that is worthy of a justice system that has integrity for the public of Manitoba. We will make sure that happens. Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, I thank the Premier for being ready to call this review, but I would ask the Premier as well what measures will be taken to ensure that the review is both thorough and independent.

Will the reference, for example, to a fully independent review of systemic problems, will this review be led by someone from outside the province to ensure it is truly independent? Mr. Doer: We will have the same kind of integ- rity in any kind of review as we did with Justice Cory when he dealt with the issues of Soph- now. o Clearly, Mr. Speaker, I think there were is- sues almost simultaneous or concurrent to the timing of some of the issues raised here that were before Justice. The Minister of Justice, I believe, after the issue of Mr.

Sophonow's guilt or innocence was dealt with, had an inquiry about how those issues were dealt with in terms of the federal government, the police forces, the Department of Justice at the time, the judiciary t the time. a I think the findings that took place from former Justice Cory, I be lieve his title was, had credibility, and we would want to ensure this has qual credibility. e Immigration Consultants Registry Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): My question is for the Minister of Labour and Immigration.

Today the minister makes reference to Bill 9, The Manitoba Immigration Council Act, and I will hold my very strong reservations on that particular bill for another time. Having said that, Mr. Speaker, there are some very real and seriou s issues of immigrants, individual family members who are trying to get immigrants to come to our province who vir- tually on a daily basis are being exploited. They are being exploited in good part from immi- gration consultants. What I am asking for the Government to do, Mr.

Speaker, is something a little bit more pro- active, to do something that would in fact protect the interests of would-be immigrants by allow- ing for an establishment of an immigrant registry within her department. I truly believe that it would go far in actually doing something posi- tive. Would the minister concur with that? Hon. Nancy Allan (Minister of Labour and Immigration): I am very pleased to talk about the Government's progress in regard to immigra- tion in the province. I am quite sure the member realizes that we have the most successful immi- gration program in the country. Mr.

Speaker, the Manitoba Council on Im- migration is being established. It was recom- mended from the Premier's Advisory Council, and we will continue to work with the com- munity in regard to how we can best serve immi- grants who are coming to the country. Ethanol Industry Development Mr. Bidhu Jha (Radisson): Yesterday, the Canadian Renewable Fuels Association, along with the Manitoba Chamber of Commerce and the Keystone Agricultural Producers, held a joint press conference in support of the newly intro- duced ethanol bill.

All three groups agreed that the advancement of the ethanol industry would be of great economic benefit to Manitobans and more especially to rural Manitoba. Mr. Speaker, can the Minister of Energy, Science and Technology p l e a s e i n f o r m t h e House of the Government's plan to proceed with the development of the ethanol industry in

December 2, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 295 Manitoba and what economic benefit that may provide to Manitobans? Hon. Tim Sale (Minister of Energy, Science and Technology): Mr.

Speaker, with the bill going into committee tonight it is not appropriate for me to prejudge its passage, but I do want to say that I believe this is one of those happy occa- sions in which farmers, rural municipalities, chambers of commerce, farm producing organi- zations such as Keystone, members of the Oppo- sition and members of the Government have one mind on the opportunity before Manitobans in regard to the development of this new industry. It provides a place for farmers' crops, provides a cleaner fuel, it reduces smog, it reduces particu- late emissions, runs cleaner in your engine. Mr.

Speaker, this is an opportunity for eco- nomic development in rural Manitoba, which I think we all welcome. I am delighted at the co- operation that we have had from all sectors in moving this bill forward. Thank you. Sunrise School Division Funding Mr. Leonard Derkach (Russell): Mr. Speaker, the letter written to the Premier of September 26 clearly points out that this Government has been caught in a lie. The Government denied in this House, the Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger) denied in this House, that the funding for Sunrise School Division was promised in base funding.

The letter clearly states that this funding was indeed promised as base funding. Can the Pre- mier, whom this letter was written to, today tell the House whether or not he will now ensure that this funding is calculated in the base funding for Sunrise School Division? Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr. Speaker, the letter in April contradicted almost every question that was asked in September dealing with the issues of, quote, why the individual was chosen.

I might point out, the personal attacks on the in- dividual who was appointed by members oppo- site to chair the occupational health committee of redeployment with the nurses and manage- ment in health care, appointed by former minis- ter Don Orchard, and then members opposite take political shots at him. I find that behaviour disgraceful. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, the issue, as I reported in my previous question, the issue of the budget base and the issues that arise from it, we cer- tainly will deal with in the next Budget. Mr.

Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Canadian Aboriginal Music Awards Mr. Denis Rocan (Carman): Mr. Speaker, today I am pleased to share with this Assembly the success of two Manito ban musicians at the Aboriginal Music Awards. Mr. Speaker, the fi fth annual Canadian Aboriginal Awards Ceremony and celebration took place in Toronto last weekend. As part of the Canadian Aboriginal Festival, the Friday night gala launched the celebration and a pow- wow at the SkyDome ran throughout the week- end. Many Manitoba artists were nominated for awards, an honour in and of itself. Mr.

Speaker, local nominees include Kimberley Dawn, Burnt, Burnt band members Maggie Ross and Dave Boulanger, White Fish Bay Singers, Edward Gamblin, Eagle and Hawk, Mitch Daigneault and Ray St. Germaine. However, I would like to take this oppor- tunity to congratulate two Manitoba nominees in particular who were suc cessful in their respec- tive categories. Winnipeg rock band Burnt re- ceived the award for best rock album, while band members Maggie Ross and Dave Bou- langer also shared the best album design award for their CD, Project 1: The Avenue.

Country singer Kimberley Dawn, also of Winnipeg, won the Galaxie rising stars award, receiving a grant and a chance to have her music played on 45 different Galaxie music channels. The purpose of the Canadian Aboriginal Music Awards is to acknowledge and honour the

296 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 2, 2003 keepers, teachers, promoters, creators and per- formers of Aboriginal music; to continue to develop and promote the diversity of all Abo- riginal music; to celebrate the excellence of Aboriginal music and to recognize the unique vision of Aboriginal musicians and encourage this rich cultural voice. Mr. Speaker, it is important to recognize the success of these fine Manitoba musicians, not only because they receive d awards, but because of their contribution to the arts and cultural com- munities of our province and our country.

Cele- brating the talents of diverse cultural commun- ities is imperative to developing and maintaining a healthy multicultural society. If I may, Mr. Speaker, I convey congratu- lations on behalf of all of us. * (14:30) Dakota Lancers Ms. Theresa Oswald (Seine River): It is my pleasure to rise today to speak about the out- standing achievement of the students at my alma mater, Dakota Collegiate. Last evening, the members of both of our city girls and varsity boys volleyball teams captured the AAAA pro- vincial championship titles. Mr.

Speaker, this is truly a spectacular event that has only been achieved a few times in our province's history. It was truly a blockbuster evening. The Dakota Lancers varsity girls team, ranked second going into the finals, battled hard against the excellent Oak Park Raiders to win the match in five games. The varsity boys, also ranked second, defeated a stellar squad from Mennonite Brethren in four games. Aside from the incredible display of athleti- cism in both matches, Mr. Speaker, what was truly worthy of note was the passionate display of fan support from parents and students alike.

These people cheered at deafening levels from 5:30 until after 11 at night. I am delighted to congratulate Mr. Dominic Buccini, one of the coaches of the varsity girls' team and a former teacher of mine, for leading his team to victory. This was the first provincial championship victory for Mr. Buccini in 20 years at Dakota, which is especially sweet, given his plans to retire later this year. The boys' coach, Mr. Phil Hudson, is also to be congratu- lated for this great win and for the true insti- tution he has become for volleyball in Manitoba.

Other members of the coaching staffs of these champions include John Hykawy, Rob Sveinson, Fraser McLeod and Kris Funk. I also wish to extend particular congratu- lations, Mr. Speaker, to all the players and man- agers for their hard work and dedication to the sport. My heart soars fo r some of my former students, including Scott Adamson, Sara Har- rington and Andrew Town, who was selected as provincial MVP.

I can say with sincerity that I understand the joy and pride these students must be feeling to- day, as it was 20 years ago, nearly to the day– that cannot be right–that I played on a provincial varsity championship team at Dakota. This tradi- tion has been strong and I feel as proud today as I did then. Paul Champagne Mrs. Mavis Taillieu (Morris): I rise today to congratulate La Salle resident Paul Champagne on his efforts to support diabetes research.

On December 14, Paul Champagne, along with five other North West Company colleagues, will join Team Diabetes Canada and participate in the International Honolulu Marathon. The Honolulu Marathon is the world's fourth largest. This event will be Champagne's third marathon. Last year the North West Company raised over $89,000 for the Canadian Diabetes Association, with $70,000 of that coming from marathon participants. This year their goal is to raise $110,000. Champagne is hoping to raise $10,000 of that himself.

The funds raised will be used in diabetes resear ch, prevention and edu- cation and to support those currently living with the disease. As captain of this team, Champagne will be proudly carrying his company's flag and provid- ing leadership to teammates from Igloolik, Nun- avut; Chisasibi, Québec; and God's Lake Nar- rows. With their participation, Champagne and his team members are taking on this important

December 2, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 297 task of raising awaren ess about the diabetes crisis in Canada. More than half of our country's population, some 16.5 million Canadians, are currently considered to be at risk for developing diabetes. Manitobans such as Paul Champagne and his fellow runners, Mr. Speaker, are an excellent example of true generosity and sacrifice. These efforts in support of the Canadian Diabetes As- sociation demonstrate the dedication and com- mitment of Manitobans to their fellow citizens.

Working towards a diabetes-free Canada is a noble cause worthy of our congratulations and support. On behalf of this Assembly, Mr. Speaker, I would like to wish Team Diabetes Canada much success as they complete their training and par- ticipate in the International Honolulu Marathon in the next few weeks. Thank you. Volunteerism Mr. Bidhu Jha (Radisson): Mr. Speaker, Manitobans have a great tradition of volunteer- ism. It is one of the leading provinces in volun- teer participation. Our volunteers enrich our so- ciety with people helping each other.

I have been amazed at the dedication of many people in Radisson who have the spirit of co-operation and civic responsibility. At this busy time of year, it is inspiring to see so many volunteers, teachers, community club executives, coaches, parents and staff working to make these community events affordable and accessible to all the families in their area. It seems to me that Santa must enjoy visiting the children of Radisson. Just last week, the MLA for Southdale (Mr.

Reimer) and I saw him at Winakwa Community Centre's event "Lunch with Santa." I hear that next week we can find him at Park City West Community Centre. Mr. Speaker, I wish to thank organizers at both Win- a k w a a n d P a r k C i t y W est for their marvelous work in offering these exciting events. As well, I wish to recognize the many other volunteers who are busy preparing our children for their traditional holiday concerts and acti- vities in our local schools and places of worship.

Their efforts directly improve the quality of their own lives and the lives of their neighbours and, indeed, future generations of Manitobans. Mr. Speaker, I invite you and my colleagues of this House to join me in extending our best wishes for the holidays and the coming year to those volunteers in Radisson and across Mani- toba who make our communities so much better. Thank you. Minto School Mrs. Leanne Ro wat (Minnedosa): I am pleased to put a few wo rds on record about the 75th anniversary of the Minto School which was marked at a special ceremony on October 9. Mr.

Speaker, the first Minto School opened in August 1900 in the village of Minto, but the school was destroyed in a fire on March 9, 1928. The replacement school built for a mere $14,000 opened for approximately 90 students on Octo- ber 9, 1928. Minto operated as a separate school district for much of its history, not joining the Turtle Mountain School Division until 1959. Once featuring a high school component, today the school is home to 37 students taking classes from kindergarten to Grade Eight.

The 75th anniversary celebrations organized by the Minto Parent Advisory Council featured a tea, a cake decorated with a picture of the school and its students and activities for the children, including a traditional fish pond. Students had the opportunity to do research into the history of the school which was also on display in colour- ful form. The staff and the students at the Minto School are a close-knit group. As principal Fran Jackson noted and I quote: "For our students, it is like one big family.

There are squabbles in families but everything works out." Throughout the years, Minto and area resi- dents have made a considerable investment in keeping the Minto School open. They recognize the importance it plays in keeping their com- munity healthy and they have fought many bat- tles and raised many dollars on its behalf.

298 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 2, 2003 I would like to congratulate all those in- volved for organizing the events marking the 75th anniversary of the Minto School, a facility I know holds a special place in the hearts of area residents and all those who passed through the doors while receiving their education. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS ADJOURNED DEBATE (Seventh Day of Debate) Mr. Speaker: Resume debate on the proposed motion of the honourable Member for Flin Flon (Mr. Jennissen) and the proposed motion of the honourable Leader of the Official Opposition (Mr.

Murray) in amendment thereto. Standing in the name of the honourable Member for Lac du Bonnet who has nine min- utes remaining. Mr. Gerald Hawran ik (Lac du Bonnet): Mr. Speaker, I welcome the opportunity to continue the debate. I acknowledge the contributions made to the town of Lac du Bonnet by Rod Demoline, who was elected as the mayor of the town in 2002 after serving his community for many years as councillor. In mid-2003 he passed away after being stricken with cancer. Rod was a very community-minded person who often placed his community in front of oth- er personal priorities.

The town of Lac du Bon- net was indeed fortunate to have an individual supporting and promoting their community. I knew Rod personally and professionally, and I can say that I have known very few other indi- viduals who have demonstrated both a dedicated commitment to his family and to his community as has Rod Demoline. Mr. Speaker, I was priv ileged this year to attend the Christmas tree-lighting ceremony in Lac du Bonnet in November, and it brought tears to my eyes when I heard that Adele Demoline, Rod's spouse, had in fact donated the Christmas tree from their yard for the ceremony.

How fit- ting and how appropriate. Obviously, communi- ty spirit and dedication to one's community were transferred to Adele and their daughter, Wendy McMaster. Community spirit and community dedication were obviously family traits which the entire town of Lac du Bonnet should ac- knowledge and be grateful for. I thank you very much , Mr. Speaker, for the opportunity to reply to the Speech from the Throne. Mr. Drew Caldwell (Brandon East): Mr. Speaker, it is indeed a privilege to put a few words on the reco rd with regard to the Throne Speech.

This is the fifth Throne Speech that I have had the honour to speak to during my career here in the Manitoba Legislature, and I have to say that each and every time I have risen in this Chamber to speak to the Throne Speech, I have been humbled knowing what a privilege it is to represent the people of Brandon East and humbled to know what a privilege it is to be elected by Manitobans to represent the best in- terests of the people in this province in this Chamber. * (14:40) Mr. Speaker, this fift h Throne Speech that I am speaking to today is my first speech not in the position of a Cabinet minister.

I would like to take the opportunity in that light to thank my colleagues, my friends, my family, my constitu- ents, and indeed citizens from throughout Mani- toba who have extended their best wishes to me on regaining my health after what has been a very difficult summer and autumn in terms of respiratory illness. I was afflicted earlier this summer with a virus that has left me quite without breath many times over the last number of months, and I feel very fortunate to be able to rise here today with some wind in my lungs to put these words on the record.

It has been very , very gratifying, and I am most grateful for the expressions and good will that I have received from throughout the province, and I would be remiss if I did not mention that. Mr. Speaker, a Throne Speech is an occa- sion for Government memb ers to celebrate their vision for the year ahead and to reflect on the work that they have done in the years past. It is

December 2, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 299 very much a privilege to be part of a govern- ment, to be part of a team, to be part of a group of hardworking women and men who are mem- bers of the Government in Manitoba today that care so deeply for the province, for the northern part of the province of Manitoba, for the south- ern part of the province of Manitoba, for rural Manitoba, for urban Manitoba, for east and for west, of all ethnicities and all community groups.

I feel so privileged and so proud to be part of a team that represents every region of this province and represents the ethnic and cultural diversity of this province. It is a tremendous privilege for me to be part of this group of men nd women. a Mr. Speaker, I also want to commend some new members in this House. On my side, on the Government's side of the House, my very dear friend, Theresa Oswald from Seine River, sorry, the member from Seine River, joins us; the member from Gimli joins us; the Member for St. Norbert (Ms. Brick) joins us; the Member for Wolseley (Mr.

Altemeyer) joins us; the Member for Radisson (Mr. Jha) joins us; and the new Member for Riel (Ms. Melnick) joins us on this side of the House. I should also say, and this is perhaps the crowning pride and glory of this past election, is the new Member for Fort Garry (Ms. Irvin-Ross), who joins us over here. In a second mandate, Mr. Speaker, we, as a government, increased the representatives of our party in this House. It demonstrates in a very profound way that Manitobans believe and sup- port a government that believes in and supports Manitoba, all regions of the province.

So I am very, very proud to be part of this Government, proud to be part of a team of women and men who are dedicated to this province and work to the best of their abilities each and every day on behalf of the people of the province of Manitoba. Mr. Speaker, this fift h Throne Speech that I am privileged to speak to highlights some major new initiatives and begins to put flesh to a vision of Manitoba hitherto unseen in this province. We have an increased and enhanced priority for water resources, for proa ctive health care, for energy, areas that are for Manitoba's future of critical importance.

I am very pleased that the Premier (Mr. Doer) has recognized and taken action on these areas of vital importance to the future growth and prosperity of our province. Mr. Conrad Santos, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair This Throne Speech, Mr. Deputy Speaker, really does not just defi ne the year ahead. This will define the second mandate of our Govern- ment and position us well for the third mandate, and as I reflect on the recent victory of the New Democratic Party in Saskatchewan, per- haps even a fourth mandate.

I know that all of us in this House have the energy and the vitality and the determination to continue to build on the accomplishments of our first mandate and to build on those accomplishments as we move forward into the first decade of the 21st century, and dare I say, the second decade of the 21st century looking forward yet.

Energy, water resources, proactive health care, healthy living, education, the bedrock of our economic development strategy, what we believe in fundamentally as a government in cre- ating highly educated Manitobans for high-skill- ed, high-income job opportunities and economic development opportunities for communities into the future. So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, this Throne Speech is, as I said, not only important to define the year ahead but to define the years ahead as we move forward through our second mandate, and as I suggest, into mandates beyond this one. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, the Throne Speech is also an opportunity for members to reflect a little on their home constituencies as well as the provincial milieu as a whole. When I reflect on Brandon, I can say without hesitation that Bran- don thrives under New Democratic govern- ments.

During the Schrey er years, when my pre- decessor, Len Evans, who was privileged to hold a number of portfolios in the Schreyer govern- ment, the Brandon city limits were expanded to increase the industrial tax base and create op- portunities for initiatives that have been under- taken in more recent years like the Maple Leaf meat packing plant in Brandon, Simplot Canada in Brandon. Some of the economic power of Brandon that we see today was created by Len Evans and Ed Schreyer during their time in this Chamber.

The Keystone Centre, is something that the City of Brandon, as they are known to do from time to time, was not really interested in at the time. The Keystone Centre, which has become a bedrock of western Manitoba and a

300 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 2, 2003 bedrock of the agricultural economy in western Manitoba, a bedrock of the community and the cultural milieu of western Manitoba, was created in 1970 by Len Evans and the Ed Schreyer government again. Moving into the later Schreyer years and the early Pawley years when Mr. Evans continued to represent Brandon, Mr. Deputy Speaker, we saw virtually every single senior citizens complex in the city of Brandon today being built. There are quite a number.

Ten of them, approximately, exist in my home constituency of Brandon East, which encompasses the downtown area where there was a great concentration of seniors hous- ing as well as most of the area east of 18th Street where the vast majority of seniors housing and public housing in the city of Brandon exists, in Brandon East. It was all developed during the Pawley and Schreyer mandates. More recently, and this is, I guess, the gist of my remarks about this Throne Speech, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, over a quarter of a billion dol- lars of provincial investment has been directed to the city of Brandon since we came to office in 1999. The Brandon Regional Health Centre re- development which was promised seven times over 11 years by members opposite came to fruition in 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002 with a $60- million commitment by this Government to en- sure that western Manitoba would have a state- of-the-art, world-class hea lth care facility for all of the 200 000 citizens of western Manitoba. It took a New Democratic government.

It took members from Brandon East and Brandon West to make that a reality, and I am very, very proud of that accomplishment. I think that accom- plishment, not only in terms of the health care excellence provided to western Manitoba, it also speaks to the integrity of this Government: A promise made is a promise kept. When we as New Democratic members, Mr. Deputy Speaker, committed to build health care excellence in western Manitoba, that commit- ment, that promise was made a reality when we were returning to office after the 11 dark years f the 1990s. o * (14:50) Mr.

Deputy Speaker, not only health care excellence is being developed. It is a return of credibility to government. It is a return to in- tegrity in government. It is a return of hope and optimism and confidence in the future that was returned to government and returned to this Chamber when the New Democratic Party was elected in 1999 in both Brandon East and Brandon West.

The Brandon Regional Health Centre not only was a symbol for the creation of health care excellence for western Manitobans, it was a very real and tangible symbol of a return to hope, a return to optimism and a return to confidence in building western Manitoba that returned to this Chamber. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, the largest investment in Brandon to date has been the conversion of the Brandon generating station to natural gas from coal, responding to our new technologies, responding to our commitment to environmental protection and to the Kyoto accord; $180 million was invested in Brandon East in the creation of a new Brandon generating station for the creation of clean electrical resources for western Mani- toba. Mr. Deputy Speaker, education is something very near and dear to all of our hearts on this side of the House.

During my time as Minister of Education I was very, very proud to be able to announce a number of major capital projects throughout the province, at the University of Manitoba, $50 million; University of Winnipeg, $14 million; Red River College, $40 million, but in Brandon, my proudest announcements are always in my home community of Brandon, the grand opening of the Health Studies Building and Aboriginal counselling centre in Brandon.

I was at the grand opening earlier this year, a $5-million project on the campus of Brandon University, a very proud moment for me as the MLA for Brandon East and a very welcome addition to the campus at Brandon University, again, speaking to our commitment to health care and education. This facility will provide young rural Manitobans with an opportunity to study in the health care field in rural Manitoba, at Brandon on the campus of Brandon Univer- sity. There were also a number of school en- hancements made during my time as minister in Brandon. Linden Lanes School, my own alma

December 2, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 301 mater Neelin High School, J. R. Reid School, all have seen capital projects take place during our time in this government since 1969. Mr. Deputy Speaker, highways in Brandon, highways in the region, the continued work on the eastern access in Brandon is under way. Highway 10 south of Brandon has seen a major reconstruction, Braecrest Drive, the intersection which is sloped down the North Hill of Brandon at Braecrest has been improved.

Something that is particularly important to me is that western Manitoba is finally twinning the Trans-Canada Highway to the Saskatchewan border. When I was a child, my father was a civil servant, a worker with the highways depart- ment, worked for the hi ghways department all his life after his discharge from the Canadian Armed Forces after World War II, first as a seas- onal employee, and retired from the highways department before his death some 14 years ago.

My father spoke to me all through my child- hood, through the Schreyer years into my adolescence and teen years in the Pawley years, about twinning the Trans-Canada Highway, twinning it from the Ontario border to the Saskatchewan border. He would be very proud today as I am proud today to know that a New Democratic government will see that twinning completed in the years to come. Mr. Deputy Speaker, the twinning of the Trans-Canada Highway, long, long envisioned by civil servants in the highways department, long part of my own household through my father, that twinning will be completed during this mandate.

We have committed resources ever since we have been in office to that project. [interjection] My colleague from Transcona says $37 million most recently for that twinning. It is a very strong commitment and demon- strates a strong commitment, again, to the eco- nomic development opportunities in western Manitoba and our commitment to maximizing those economic development opportunities for western Manitoba. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, not only do we have major health care commitments that are being fulfilled in Brandon and western Manitoba, major educational commitments being made and fulfilled in western Manitoba, major transporta- tion infrastructure commitments being made and fulfilled in western Manitoba, we also have major and important urban renewal projects be- ing committed to and undertaken in western Manitoba.

Before I came to this Chamber, I was a city councillor in Brandon for three terms and sat on the board and the executive of the Association of Manitoba Municipalities, the Manitoba Associ- ation of Urban Municipalities, the Union of Manitoba Municipalities, as a municipal official, as an elected representative from western Mani- toba to those provincial organizations. One of my greatest challenges during my time as a mun- icipal official was the fact that there was no urban renewal initiative available to urban areas outside of the city of Winnipeg.

Members opposite, while they elect great numbers of MLAs from western Manitoba, never saw fit to expand those projects that are so important to the core area of the city of Win- nipeg, the neighbourhood renewal projects that are so important to the neighbourhoods of Win- nipeg, to expand those programs into areas outside of the city of Winnipeg. So we had this odd situation where a government was sustained by members from–the previous government I speak of–western Manitoba and rural Manitoba and areas outside of Winnipeg, but they did not really bring home the bacon, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, to their home constituencies. Again, it took a Ne w Democratic govern- ment to expand urban renewal initiatives to the city of Brandon and the city of Thompson, so that citizens outside of this city could benefit from urban renewal initiatives that provide for playgrounds, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that provide for housing renewal, that provide for green space renewal, that provide for community economic development and community capacity building. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, I am very proud again to be part of a government that believes that parks, playgrounds, green space, riverbank pro- jects in my home city of Brandon, the Assin- niboine River Corridor are supported. Since we have been in office, we have supported the riverbank project in Brandon, the 8th Street

302 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 2, 2003 Bridge and Parker Boulevard lighting for the riverbank project, the Assiniboine riverbank project, $45,000, the Eleanor Kidd Gardens, part of the riverbank botanical gardens that are great not only as a community resource but as a tour- ism resource for Brandon, supporting the con- struction of a performance stage and botanical garden at the Eleanor Kidd Gardens to the tune of $30,000, upgrading at Stanley Park in the downtown core of the city of Brandon, at Rideau Park in the east end part of Brandon, tens of thousands of dollars for the installation of water parks, safety lighting and nostalgia lighting to make the parks safe in the evening as com- munity gathering places in the evening and in the daytime, new handicap accessible play struc- tures at Rideau Park in the east end, that New Era School in the core area of Brandon, new handicap accessible play structures to meet Can- adian standards.

In the north end of the city of Brandon, the most disadvantaged areas of our community, the core area, the north end, the east end–in the north end, we again created new play structures, replacing structures that were over 50 years old. Mr. Deputy Speaker, in terms of neigh- bourhood capacity building and neighbourhood community building, we have supported board governance structuring for the Neighborhood Renewal Corporation in Brandon.

We sponsored a downtown daycare needs survey which this past year during my time in office as Minister of Family Services and Housing, I was very privi- leged to open two brand-new daycares in Bran- don's core area, one at the Brandon Friendship Centre and one at the Brandon family YMCA, to meet the needs of citizens and young families in providing child care for our future for the children of Brandon. * (15:00) Mr.

Deputy Speaker, we supported neighbourhood renewal, neighbourhood capacity building, daycare expansion, child care ex- pansion, neighbourhood communications, pro- viding the public opportunities to participate in Neighbourhood Renewal Corporation planning activities. We have a vision for neighbourhood renewal and neighbourhood development that respects the advice of the grassroots, respects the advice of people who actually live in the neighbourhoods.

It is a novel concept, I know, not to depend on higher authorities which is often the way government resources are directed, oftentimes at the peril of the neighbourhood. Again, I speak to my time as a city councillor. We had more projects rammed down our throats from city hall that we re actually counter-pro- ductive to the neighbourhood and to the com- munity of Rosser ward in the core area of the ity of Brandon. c This Government believes in respecting and taking the advice of people in communities first.

Nobody is better equipped to create and develop a vision for their community than the people who actually live in the community itself. This Government believes that strongly. Mr. Deputy Speaker.

I am very proud to be part of a gov- ernment that supports my neighbours, that sup- ports communities, that supports people who live in distressed neighbourhoods in helping them build the sort of community that they want to build for themselves and live in for themselves and not undermine, in fact, which often hap- pened during my time as a city councillor, not undermine the wishes and the views of people who live in neighbourhoods. Just as I conclude my remarks I want to touch upon one more thing which is very im- portant in terms of our Government. That is the development of housing.

Not a stick of afford- able housing was created for 11 years in my home community of Brandon, in Winnipeg, throughout the province of Manitoba. Since 1999 there have been over 500 units developed and renovated and built in the city of Brandon, over 500 units in four years versus 0 in 11 years. Again, that housing has been developed with the direction of the community and a loan, I might add. The province of Manitoba has been working hand in hand with the Neighbourhood Renewal Corporation and planning district and the com- munity in assuring that affordable housing is a priority in Brandon, developed in Brandon.

I am very proud to be part, again, of a government that believes so strongly in building communi- ties throughout the province, but most especially in my home constituency of Brandon East. So once again, I would like to thank my constituents, the people of Brandon East, for the

December 2, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 303 privilege that they have given me to represent them in this Chamber. It is indeed an honour to represent Brandon East. Moreover, it is indeed an honour to continue the tradition of New Democratic Party representation in Brandon East and to be part of a government that believes in the future of our province. Thank you. Mrs. Bonnie Mitchels on (River East): Mr.

Deputy Speaker, I am pleased to have the opportunity to stand in my place once again and respond to the Throne Speech, speak a bit to the amendments that were put forward by this side of the House, but first and foremost say welcome back to all of those that were re-elected to the Legislature and welcome to all of the new faces hat we see. t Although I do not have any hard data, I would say that the average age in the Manitoba Legislature has decreased considerably with the new members that have been elected.

I want to congratulate those on the government side that were elected for the first time, congratulate those on our side of the House, especially the Member for Minnedosa (Mrs. Ro wat), the Member for Morris (Mrs. Taillieu), the Member for Stein- bach (Mr. Goertzen) and the Member for Lakeside (Mr. Eichler), who were all elected as new members of the Legislature in the Pro- gressive Conservative caucus. I also would like to welcome back the Member for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux).

I want to indicate to him personally and publicly that I have always enjoyed his contributions in the past and welcome him back and know that he will contribute as significantly over this term, over the next four years. So congratulations to all of those that are back. I want to welcome the pages and wish them a very interesting time and hope that they learn and enjoy the workings of the Legislature and their duties in helping us as members of the egislature.

L I would like to welcome, of course, the table officers back and the interns that were chosen to work with both caucuses in the Legislature and hope that they have a very productive year. I would like to thank once again the people in River East constituen cy that elected me for the sixth time. I have to say that I am very proud to be able to represent the people in the great constituency of River East. I do want to indicate, too, that I know many members on the New Democratic side of the House got a lot of first-hand experience during the election campaign, knocking on doors in our River East constituency.

I might say that many Cabinet ministers and I know many back- benchers on the New Democratic side spent many, many hours and days knocking on doors, introducing themselves to the great constituents of River East. We may as a result, since they got to know the community so well, we may see more New Democrats moving into the River East constituency. We already have the Premier (Mr. Doer) living there. The Member for Ross- mere (Mr. Schellenberg) lives in the great con- stituency of River East.

There may be others that got such a positive impression of the spirit in River East that we may see more members of the New Democratic Party choose River East as their home. I would welcome them because I have said many, many times in the Legislature that I rep- resent all of those who live in the community. I would hope that the Premier appreciates the hard work, the time, the energy and the effort that I put in, in representing him and the many others who live in our community.

I believe the residents of River East ex- pressed their confidence and support for me again because of the hard work I have attempted to do on their behalf over the years. I think that goes a long way to indicating to all members, and maybe some good advice to those who have been newly elected, that not only do we have duties to perform here in the Legislature, wheth- er it be in government or in opposition, and we have our roles to play, but our main focus and most of our energy must be placed on repre- senting those who elected us. Those are people within our constituency.

I might say that hard work does pay off but it also speaks to the quality and the character of those who live in the community and the suggestions, the ideas and the advice they have given me over the years on the needs that our community has had and how I have in many ways tried to work very hard on their behalf to

304 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 2, 2003 implement some of the things and to fight for some of the things our community has requested. We, since 1986, Mr. Deputy Speaker, have been very much a growing community with many young families that have needed recre- ational opportunities in our community. I have worked really hard to try to ensure that our community club, Gateway community club, has grown, has developed and has met the needs of the families who are growing and living and need the recreational opportunities within our community. So, Mr.

Deputy Speaker , I worked hard and I think we can be very proud of the recreational opportunities that exist at Gateway Recreation Centre, and that I know many of my constituents and those who visit to come and play in a competitive nature in my community have come to understand and appreciate. * (15:10) Mr. Deputy Speaker, I take great pride in getting the two lanes of the Perimeter Highway completed. You know there were eight kilo- meters of the Perimeter Highway that has been in existence for decades that were never com- pleted. I take great pride in working really hard.

It took me a while to convince our government of the day even that it was a priority, but I was able to do that and have been very proud of that accomplishment. I know that it has benefited many in my community. Unfortunately there have been a couple of accidents, fatal accidents, on that stretch of the Perimeter Highway and it is now time for gov- ernment to take the next bold step and commit to funding to complete the four lanes of that Peri- meter Highway, plus the cloverleaf at the corner of the Perimeter and Lagimodière Boulevard needs to be completed. I have talked to my constituent the Premier (Mr.

Doer), and I think that we both have a common goal in mind because we live in the same community and know that the residents in that community deserve to have their voices heard once again. I am hoping that we can in very much a bipartisan way work for the benefit of the residents in River East and in the northeast quadrant of the city of Winnipeg. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, one of the accomp- lishments that I am extremely proud of is the seniors health and wellness resource team that was started when we were in government and is the only one program of its kind throughout the province, something that I take great pride in working very hard along with my community to develop. This is one instance where we have seen a public-private partnership that has worked where we had a need identified in our com- munity. I have several senior citizens apartment blocks in my community.

They were indicating that they would like to see services closer to home, right where they lived. As a result of that, we had the owner of several of those apartment blocks come forward and say: If only we could have a nurse or some sort of support for our seniors in our apartment block. I would be prepared to fund the renovations, to build the offices, to provide the furniture if we could get a nurse who could come in on an ongoing basis and serve the needs of some of those residents. Mr. Deputy Speaker, that is the kind of pub- lic-private partnership we talk about in the health care system that works.

When the private sector is prepared to put up the funding for the bricks and mortar and government is prepared to pro- vide the services and the professionals, that is the kind of thing that works. I have to tell you, it has been extremely successful. I am thrilled that it is working so well. I do not know whether the Government is looking at expanding those kinds of programs into other communities. Maybe, just maybe, I hope that by mentioning it and mentioning that there is a pub- lic-private partnership, we do not see a gov- ernment that takes exception to that and tries to close it down.

I would hope that they would look at that example, that th ey would learn from that example and that they would move forward and look at other communities that might want to duplicate that kind of support service. Mr. Deputy Speaker, a nurse and an occupa- tional therapist have been hired as the seniors health resource team. They have offices in five different apartment blocks along Henderson Highway. They hold regular clinics in those

December 2, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 305 offices. They have individual consultations with seniors. They do teaching. They have developed programs. They have support services for those who are caring for their loved ones who are incapacitated, who need help. They bring those individuals together and they provide support to ach other. e Mr. Deputy Speaker, they are a dynamic duo and I want to indicate that they have now con- nected with the Good Neighbours Senior Centre down Henderson Highway.

If a constituent of mine calls who lives in a residence, who is elderly and is having difficulty coping, all I have to do is pick up the phone and call the nurse from the seniors health resource team. They will make a call. They will make a visit into the community to see whether they can help in any way get the support or the service that those ndividuals need. i I am thrilled that it is working so well. I do not know whether the Government is looking at expanding those kinds of programs into other communities.

Maybe, just maybe, I hope that by mentioning it and mentioning that there is a public-private partnership, we do not see a gov- ernment that takes exception to that and tries to close it down. I would hope that they would look at that example, that th ey would learn from that example and that they would move forward and look at other communities that might want to duplicate that kind of support service. Mr. Deputy Speaker, we have a community hospital in Concordia Hospital that has grown.

I know that when we were in government there were lots of things that happened, and I am pleased to say that under the present admini- stration, Concordia continues to expand and to grow. I have a very personal, special place in my heart for Concordia Hospital. I worked there as a nurse for several years before I got into political office. I continue to support Concordia Hospital through serving on the Concordia Hospital Foundation. I am very pleased to be able to lend my support and try to garner support from others within the munity to raise funds to develop extra-special programs that Concordia needs. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, the hip and knee re- placement program has been announced and has begun to move to Concordia Hospital. I want to thank the Government for promoting and ap- proving that initiative. I want to make my com- mitment today to work with the Government to try to ensure that our community and our com- munity hospital thrives and grows. It is not something that becomes a partisan political issue. It is important for all of us to be working together to ensure that our health facilities are there to meet the needs of the population.

Another program in our community that really has developed and grown is the congre- gate meal program. Again, when I talked about public-private partnership, I know that there are many congregate meal programs that are run by support services for seniors within government. There is some funding provided to hire the cook to provide the meals. Again, I do want to say that because of the entrepreneurial nature of our community, we again have a landlord that pays the full support for the cook in his apartment blocks to provide the congregate meal program.

There again is a public-private partnership which provides sup- port to seniors where they live. I want to thank the many, many volunteers in our seniors com- munity that work on a regular basis to ensure that those programs are successful. I am pleased again to have the opportunity to represent our River East community.

As I went door to door during the election campaign, I talked to the many hardworking men and women that make up our constituency that indi- cated very clearly to me that they were taxed enough, that in fact they would not mind a little bit more of their money being left in their pock- ets so that they could choose how to spend it rather than having government and the heavy hand of government determine where their dis- posable income would go. One of the things that really piqued their in- terest, of course, was our commitment to remove the education tax off the property taxes.

I guess one of the challenges for us was to sell that as doable, especially with the commitment to re- move it within a year. I think as we move for- ward you will see our pa rty come forward with a very workable plan. It was 2 percent of the

306 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 2, 2003 provincial budget. I think that it would be very doable to find the money. * (15:20) If in fact we had had a crystal ball during the election campaign and had realized that there was going to be $141 million in additional revenue come to the province in the way of transfer payments from the federal government, that would have almost met the need, or the requirement. We were over halfway there in getting the money that we needed in order to remove the education tax completely from the property tax.

I want to speak a bit about the new deal that was proposed by the mayor and the City of Winnipeg, because I think it all fits into some of the direction that we talked about taking during the election campaign and why we will continue to press this Government to remove education tax completely from property tax. We saw the mayor come out with a proposal that was looking at $120 million more to support programs in infrastructure in the city of Win- nipeg. We had the provincial government, the Minister of Intergover nmental Affairs (Ms. Mihychuk) and the Premier (Mr.

Doer) saying, well, we are just going to let the process take place and we are going to listen to what Man- itobans have to say but we will be at the table. We will have an open mind, but we were not elected to raise taxes. We heard the Province also say, the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs said we do not have bagfuls of money. They pretty well ruled out the Province giving the City of Winnipeg any more money. Well, it only stands to reason, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that if the Province is not going to give the City any more money and the City is asking for $120 million more, who is going to pay?

It is going to be the taxpayers who are going to have to dig deeper into their pockets. Mr. Deputy Speaker, that is unacceptable. As I talked to the people in River East consti- tuency, I found out very clearly that they had no appetite for increased taxes. They took the Premier at his word when he ran and said that he was not going to raise taxes. Then to have him sit back and say, well, we are not going to say anything. We are going to wait until the City comes to us with a formal proposal.

He is going to let the mayor go back to the drawing board after the public consultations and come back in the spring and ask for a sales tax increase. Mr. Deputy Speaker, we had to have the Premier come out and state very clearly–I think he was being very unfair to the mayor by not indicating right up front that there would no increase in sales tax. That was why we organized and worked on a petition that ensured that the Premier had to stand up, stand in his place, take a stand and indicate that there would be no sales tax increase. That would have had to be– [interjection] I hear the Member for Transcona (Mr.

Reid), and I do know that there were some in his constituency that signed the petition too. Manitobans spoke loudly and clearly. The city of Winnipeg does not want to be taxed more. This Government and this Premier have to stand up, and they have to indicate to Win- nipeggers, to Manitobans, that enough is enough. We may have to look at the way we are spending your hard- earned tax dollars, but we are not going to ask you to dig deeper into your pockets to pay any more.

I would hope that all members on the other side of the House listen very clearly to the comments that were made as public forums were held and how Winnipeggers spoke when they were asked. I would hope that all of those across the way who have any slight inkling to support tax increases and user fee increases in next year's budget will have listened very carefully to where Winnipeggers have come from and that they would give Winnipeggers and Manitobans a say before they raise any taxes. So, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, with those few comments on the Throne Speech, I do want to indicate that we will be watching very carefully. Yes, the Government has increased the numbers on the government side of the House in this past election. There will be those who will be watch- ing much more carefully over this term. This Government cannot now sit back and continue to blame governments of the past. They cannot continue to be a do-nothing government.

December 2, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 307 They are going to have to be accountable for the decisions that they make, and Manitobans will hold them accountable. Manitobans spoke in this past election and elected a New Democratic government, but no government should become arrogant to the point where they believe that they are going to govern forever. We do know that in Manitoba politics most governments are two-term governments. Manitobans, in the second term of any gov- ernment, expect and will hold accountable the government of the day for the decisions that are made.

The Government will have to now stop blaming past governments for everything that is wrong. They have been in government now for four years. There is an expectation that they will, they should and will be he ld accountable for de- cisions that are made. So I would caution the Premier and his ministers and even those back- benchers that from time to time take some delight in being very arrogant about their role in government that the time will come when the political landscape in this Chamber will change.

I would encourage them to do the right thing for the right reasons for th e taxpayers and for the people of Manitoba that elected them. So I am pleased to have the opportunity to stand in my place. I also would like to indicate that I do not see a lot of vision. I do not see a lot of positive direction in this Throne Speech. I believe that many of the promises that were made back in 1999 by this Government have not been followed through on. There have been many, many broken promises.

We will see over the next number of months and years how well this Government manages to be accountable to those that elected them and chose them to sit on the governing side of the House. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to speak today and want to indicate that I will not be supporting the Throne Speech. I will be supporting our amendment. Thank you. Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): I listened very closely to what the Member for River East had to say about the Government and governments in general, and so on. I thought it was rather inter- esting the Member for Transcona (Mr.

Reid) pointed out to me that she had talked about increased spending in one part of her speech, she wants to twin the highways, and then the next paragraph in her speech she is talking about cutting taxes. This gets back to Abe Kovnats' famous saying back in 1986-87. Abe Kovnats used to say that in opposition you could have it both ways. You could promise all sorts of spending one day and turn around and call for tax cuts the next day and you can get away with it, right? That is the hallmark of opposition politics in this province.

In fact, I think every province is like that. * (15:30) I wanted to say that we have had a very good economy for the last dozen years. Gener- ally in a good economy people are fairly happy. When they are fairly happy I do not think they are paying a lot of attention to what the Gov- ernment is doing. So the Government can have all sorts of very good initiatives, which we do, outlined in the Throne Speech, and it does not seem to get the coverage, does not seem to get the notice that probably the initiatives deserve, but there are a lot of good initiatives that this Government is taking.

I do not think we have gotten the full credit for what we have done at this point. Perhaps that will change. Actually, the hallmark of this Government since 1999 is that it has been a builder gov- ernment. I can tell you I remember the dark days of Sterling Lyon. In 1980-81, I was one of the fundraisers for the NDP and I went to Toronto and other places to approach companies for donations. I can tell you the people who were making the donations were happy as can be to be getting rid of a Conservative government that cut down, shut down all the construction projects. You could not find an architect in Manitoba.

You could not find an engineer in Manitoba who wanted to give a cent to re-elect the Sterling Lyon government. They would tell me we are not Conservatives, but we are not stupid either. We know when the Conservatives are in power here nothing is happening. Nothing is being built. Architects are out of work. Engineers are out of work. So we want you people back in power because at least you are going to build things. You are going to construct things.

308 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 2, 2003 What has happened? In the last four years we have an arena under construction. They could not do it. The Member for Fort Whyte (Mr. Loewen), trying to build an arena here under the previous Conservative government, could not get it done. Now he is so jealous that we have got it done; he does not like, he is not a fan of the arena anymore. Now he has gone off to talk about VLTs, how we are going to remove VLTs from the province.

This government did not accomplish a lot, beyond getting the budget under control, the deficit question under control, which, by the way, the Saskatchewan NDP were the first in the country to do it. So Filmon was not the first at all. He was probably the second or the third, but at least he did what was necessary for the time to bring a budget deficit which, under Clayton Manness' final year or two as Finance Minister, hit $800 million, probably a record deficit in the history of the province, done under a Conser- vative regime.

They did take steps to get the deficit under control, but while they did that they did not do any of the building we are doing right now. There was no talk about building of floodway under the Conservatives. As a matter of fact, when we had a flood, the premier said people should not be building houses around a flood plain. That was his response. There is construction going on downtown in unprecedented numbers, 34, 36 buildings being built. There is a new Hydro building on the drawing boards. None of this was being touted and talked about under the Tory regime.

As a matter of fact all that happened during the Tory regime was that they would cut back the spending in education between the elections. They cut back the health care spending between the elections. Then the year before the election they would come out with all of these great drawings for all these buildings they were going to build. Right? When the election was over, they would put it all on the shelf. They cancelled all of the programs. That is how they operated when they were in government, just do enough to win the election and continue on.

Well, that approach worked for a couple of times, but then of course it did not work in the final analysis. Mr. Deputy Speaker, we have seen a very optimistic Throne Speech. I think it is a reflec- tion of an optimistic people in this province at this point. We have seen unprecedented growth in the economy since the slowdown of the 1991- 92 period. We have seen other governments run huge deficits. I give you the example of Ontario, and there are other provinces that are running huge deficits. What has been happening in Mani- toba? We are running a surplus budget in Mani- toba since we have been elected.

In fact Manitoba has had a handle on the deficits ever since the big deficit of Clayton Manness. I give the previous government credit for doing what was necessary at the time and we have simply continued what they had done. Now what they expected would happen when we won in 1999, what they were hoping we would do is simply dismantle the balanced budget legislation and go back to our free- spending ways of the 1980s, but we surprised them. They are very unhappy people over there at this point.

Not only did we not scrap the bal- anced budget legislation, but we actually im- proved it, and that really cheesed them off even more. They are not very happy about that, I can tell you. So they balanced their budget in the old days with cutbacks to health care, reductions in edu- cation spending, wrapped them up around elec- tion period. That was sort of the modus operandi of the government. All we have done is continue the successful prescription of tax reductions which, once again, they would not have expected us to do.

They expected us to be hiking the taxes, making it easier for them to successfully make a comeback in this province. We have also managed to have reasonable spending increases in this province. As a matter of fact, very reasonable, much more so than they were able to do in the years they were there. Mr. Deputy Speaker, we did something that they never did, and the Liberals will never be able to do. The Liberals never even thought of it. There is an unfunded pension liability, which was getting bigger and bigger and had been ignored by previous governments, going back a long way.

December 2, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 309 Mr. Speaker in the Chair It was this Government that could have kept ignoring the problem. But we did not. We have funded the pension liability. This unfunded lia- bility would have been a huge millstone around the necks of our children and all future gov- ernments. But we began paying down the lia- bility a couple of years ago now. Over a 30-year period, that liability will be taken care of and in a very painless manner.

You cannot let a liability extend to the point where it practically drags you down, drags the province down and then try to pay it all off in a couple of years. It is prudent to do this over the 30-year period. So, as I said, we have been running budget surpluses. We have been paying down the debt. We have been doing all the things that a good Tory would expect a government to do. That is why we see such unhapp y faces across the way. They are extremely glum. We have seen four years now of glum, sad people sitting across from us with no real issues. They have been trying to get their feet on the ground.

They have been trying to grab on to issues, but just when they are making that grasp for the branch somebody comes and chops the branch off and they end up splat on the floor or on the ground. You know, it is kind of funny, but the fact of the matter is that we have been on top of their game plan, I guess, in a very successful way. I want to say, Mr. Speaker, that these measures can only be achieved if the pie increases in size, if the economy continues to grow. If and when we hit a recession and a slowdown in the economy, something is going to have to give.

This is a fact of life with any governments of any stripe in the country. It is just a matter of economics. We have been very lucky to have a dozen years now of very good growth and expenditures and it has allowed us to do all of the things that we want to and will continue doing. * (15:40) But at some point, if the revenues start to fall off, and this is what happened in Clayton Manness' day, this is what happened to Howard Pawley, it is very difficult to plan for a recession even though we know that they are going to come.

What we have done, what other gov- ernments have done, Saskatchewan has done it too, is we have formed the rainy day fund. That is the genesis of the rainy day fund. It is because the governments know that they will never, never put money aside for a rainy day and yet they know in their own minds the rainy day is bound to come at some point. That is why we have a discipline built into the system so that we have a rainy day fund to take care of the problems when a recession oc- curs. It does not take much. It does not take much of a shift if you have your expenses locked in and you cannot change them.

They are man- dated by contracts and all of a sudden your rev- enue drops off. You are in big trouble. Before you know it you are sinking under the water and that is a real problem. That is what we have to look forward to. If the economy stays in good shape and we keep delivering good government in Manitoba, we could stay here forever, but if the economy does not perform as well as we hope it will, if a recession happens to hit, the public, who have not been paying a lot of atten- tion to our issues, may suddenly start paying a lot of attention. At that point, it becomes very hard to square the circle.

I can tell you, Mr. Speaker, that back in the Schreyer government, in the second term when things turned negative, when the economy turn- ed negative, at a certain point people became very pessimistic. In fact, they were even blaming the government for the weather. You know you cannot win when you are going door to door and people have just gone beyond the actual issues in front of them. They just want a change. They want you out of there and no amount of rational dialogue is going to convince them otherwise. They have decided that that is it. Time is over. You are done.

We have been through that. [interjection] To the Member for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux), those conditions are not here now. They probably are not going to be here in the foreseeable future, but we cannot be predicting the future with any great degree of accuracy. When the economy is good, we have to invest in upgrading our facilities, and we have to spend substantially. I wanted to point out that this Government has spent a lot of money in the area of technology in the hospitals and in

310 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 2, 2003 medical facilities. We have an MRI in Brandon now which the previous government could not do. Although they promised at each election, they did not deliver on the promise. We have CT scans in Steinbach for the first time, Thompson for the first time, Selkirk for the first time. These things were never done, Mr. Speaker, when the Conservatives were in power. Thompson and Selkirk would have been waiting for 50 years for this kind of facility. We have gamma knife technology which is being implemented here in Manitoba, Mr.

Speaker, and we have centres of excellence in health care areas. To give the previous govern- ment credit, they suppor ted and they worked on that approach. I always thought it was a very good approach to establish centres of excellence whether it be in Winnipeg, whether it be in Edmonton, wherever it is for a certain type of procedure. I want to tell you and I think it just makes sense–you just have to think of the old Henry Ford concept of building the old auto- mobiles, there is an old joke about people wanting their son or daughter to become a brain surgeon.

They would be very happy if they could become brain surgeons, but they do not want to be their first patients. Th ere are lots of studies that show that the mortality rate is very high among doctors who are performing very small amounts of a certain procedure. So it is just common sense that you want to go and have your brain surgery performed by a doctor who is doing it all the time. If that means going to Regina or Saskatoon or Vancouver, then that is what you should do.

If gamma knife technology is going to be centered here in Manitoba, then people should feel confident that they can come here from all across the country and have their surgeries done, and the success rate will be very, very high. This is just something that makes sense. The quicker and the faster that we develop the technologies and push this concept, the better off the province is going to be. We have Telehealth centres now being set up across the province. There is a Telehealth centre in Ashern, among other places. The goal, Mr.

Speaker, is to connect ultimately the hospi- tals with the clinics and with the doctors' offices. When you think about it, does it not make sense that rather than having to phone your doctor for an appointment, you should be able to just simply go on-line, look up the doctor's office, look at his or her appointment schedules, and if there is a ten o'clock appointment on Thursday, you click it and you have got an appointment. That is just common sense, but where are we in this? Each province is grappling with these issues.

Alberta is trying to connect the hospitals and the doctors and the clinics, and the doctors are saying–these are doctors who make lots of money, I presume–no, we are not going to do it unless the Government pays for the computers. As long as that attitude prevails, progress is going to be slow, but there obviously has to be a way to change the clinics, the hospitals, the doctor's office and build them into a seamless web so that we can improve health care in the province.

A patient should be able to have test results stored on-line so that any hospital, clinic or doctor's office he or she visits in Manitoba, or even outside Manitoba, can access the results and give instant treatment and not take even more duplicate tests. Everybody knows that people have taken tests in Concordia Hospital one day, two or three days later gone to a different hospital and they are taking the darn things again. I mean, that is ridiculous; it should not be. The test results should be there. As a matter of fact, doctor's offices routinely lose these results. They mispla ce the results.

If you had the results on-line, accessible to the patient, the patient from wherever they are can simply access their results and could see what their numbers are for whatever tests it is they are looking for, when they are on holidays in Florida, when they are in Vancouver, wherever they happen to be. This would make so much sense, but it is just something that is not moving along at a very fast rate. In fact, a measure like this probably could save lives if you were to study the results. To connect the hospitals the Government has to establish uniform, consistent standards.

Right now you have hospitals operating on dif- ferent standards, computer platforms, so that one hospital cannot communicate with another to share the information. To do this, the Govern- ment has to facilitate dark fibre builds, which, over time, and I know the telephone system is

December 2, 2003 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 311 building the fibre builds at the moment, has to result basically in gigabyte-to-the-home service. I do not say this is going to happen in five or ten years. It might take twenty years. Obviously, small communities are going to get it last, but once you connect up the municipalities, the hos- pitals, the schools into the network, then it be- comes easier to run the cable to the individual houses or the individual subdivisions as the case may be, so that over time all of the communities in Manitoba will be connected. Mr.

Speaker, once the fibre is in place you essentially have a road, a network linking all the facilities in most homes in Manitoba. With that comes the benefit of sharing information essen- tially around the world. Now, before you all go to sleep, and I know you are really interested to hear about gigabyte Ethernet to the home and other things like this, I just want to tell you that there are a lot of benefits to sharing this in- formation within the province and around the world. The hospitals can serve patients in rural areas using Telehealth, which they are doing right now.

Schools can provide training pro- grams all over the province with less reliance on bricks and mortar. You know, the old days you built a school in every little town. Well, in the future you may not be doing that. You may be providing basically on-line training to people at much lower costs and better training in the process. You can apply this concept to the Gov- ernment too. The previous government was on the verge of looking at stuff like this, but it did not go anywhere. An Honourable Member: SmartHealth. * (15:50) Mr. Maloway: Yes. Municipalities, Mr.

Speak- er, they will be able to connect with one another and to their ratepayers; and that means offering services to the ratepayers. All levels of government should be able to provide real, transactional services on-line to the public. You see, what has happened up to now the initial goal was to get Web sites set up, but once you did that, a lot of people found that was not really that useful. The information did not get updated very often. It was not necessarily what people wanted. People want transactional services from the Government.

They want to be able to go right on-line, fill out their forms and fill out an appli- cation for student aid. That is what they want. They do not want to download a form and then put it in the post office. Right? They do not want to do that. Here are some examples of what we have right now. I will have to be quick because we only have about eight minutes left here. Today, if you have access to a computer hook-up to the Internet, did you know you can buy Canada Sav- ings Bonds on-line? I bet you did not know that. I bet you none of you have, but you can do that.

No more driving to the bank, no more standing in line on the last day to buy your savings bonds. You can do that on-line. If you live up North, how long does it take you to get to the bank? Maybe a hundred miles from the bank. Some day Manitoba may have the same service here with our Hydro Bonds. It is just a matter of applying what the federal government is doing. I know that bonds are being offered in the state of Maryland, I believe it is, on-line. You can do that. Today you can apply for EI benefits on-line, through the federal government. Now if any of us happen to lose our jobs here, you are in- formed.

Right? You heard it, you heard it here, a little bit too ea

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	38-2-09
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	38th 2nd hansardpdf 09.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	55a50a1ff241f8a4309d2bba1775138d9cceae8d

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