March 20, 2003 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY

PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLIV No. 2

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Snow): Order, please!

Statements by Members

MR. E. BYRNE: A point of Order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader, on a point of order.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today on a point of order. Normally a point of order is customary that

you rise immediately when it happens. It occurred yesterday, in the Premier's

response to the Leader of the Opposition's Speech from the Throne but I did

not think it was appropriate, to be honest, to rise on a point of order with

invited guests on the floor, et cetera.

The Premier said yesterday, and it is Hansard, that, "The inference was

given by the Leader of the Opposition that it was customary to have a copy of

the Speech from the Throne in advance so you could prepare your remarks. That is

not the custom anywhere in the British Commonwealth. It has never been done. No

member of the House of Assembly anywhere, in Newfoundland and Labrador, in

Canada or elsewhere, gets these particular copies... It is not a tradition or

custom that has ever been used; just so the record is clear." He went on to

say other things but basically said that never happens, never has happened, is

not a custom and does not occur.

For the Premier's information in terms of the alleged historian yesterday

talking about it never happens in the British Commonwealth or anywhere else in

Canada. Let me just brief the Premier. His predecessor, on every Speech from the

Throne, provided me, as a former Leader of the Opposition, an hour-and-a-half in

advance a copy. He also provided the Member for Ferryland a copy, and former

Premier Clyde Wells provided the then Leader of the Opposition with a copy. I

want also, Mr. Speaker, to set the record straight, that when staff in his

office where asked if a copy could be provided, they said no, we will not be

doing that.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, to the point of order.

I think substantially what the Premier said is correct, that it is not a

practice throughout the British Commonwealth to give the Throne Speech - which

is quite different from the Budget - to people in advance. Now, I am very proud

if our government did it. I can assure the hon. member, it was the only one that

did it. If former Premier Wells did it and Mr. Tobin did it they established

something new in the House because it was never done before. That does not make

a tradition. I just say, that is not a tradition. It might have happened in this

House. Had the Leader of the Opposition made it known at the time, or the

Government House Leader, that was being done, I am sure there would have been no

problem in doing it, but that was what the Premier and his office firmly thought

was the tradition and we were doing what we thought was tradition. But, we are

glad if in our efforts that parliament reformed. Mr. Wells and Mr. Tobin

provided the Opposition with that information we are glad, Mr. Speaker, because

we are reformers on this side of the House, this government, and we will carry

through with that tradition.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

To the point of order, the Chair would say it is not a point of order because

whether documents are given to members of the Opposition by government members,

by ministerial statements, it is a practice in some cases. It may not be a

practice but there is nothing in our Standing Orders which would indicate that

the Throne Speech or a ministerial statement or any other document would have to

be given to the hon. members of the Opposition by government prior to meeting

here in the House. It is really outside the preview of the Chair because there

is nothing in our Standing Orders, so there is really not a point of order.

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to pay tribute to the late Joe Mullins. As we all were, I was

shocked to hear of his passing on December 21 past.

I was very proud to know Joe and always considered him to be first and

foremost a family person. When he spoke of his wife, Marie, and son, Peter, his

pride and his love for them was overwhelming. People will remember Joe as a

community servant, a broadcaster, a sports icon in both hockey and baseball, and

a champion for the needy of our Province. I hope they primarily remember him as

a family person.

The people of Corner Brook and, indeed, the entire Province of Newfoundland

and Labrador, were left in a state of shock by his sudden passing. Everybody

knew Joe and respected him for his tireless contributions to public service and

charitable organizations. He was involved in all aspects of life in Corner

Brook. In fact, many people, including myself, often referred to Joe as Mr.

Corner Brook because he was truly one of our community's greatest ambassadors.

The high regard in which he was held by the people of Corner Brook was best

demonstrated by the fact that he was elected to city council with a strong level

of support, and he was serving his second year as deputy mayor.

My first dealings with Joe occurred through our mutual love of sports, but I

also had the pleasure of working with him through the Janeway Children's

Hospital Foundation in which Joe played a pivotal role in the annual telethon.

It is not at all surprising to hear that Joe's last actions on earth were

associated with helping a charitable organization and recognizing individuals

from the community while volunteering his time as a broadcaster for a hockey

game. That is certainly how he spent the majority of his life - helping others.

Our caucus was proud to have Joe as a member of our team, and he will be

sadly missed. Joe Mullins was loved by all Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Burin-Placentia West.

MS M. HODDER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to pay tribute to Grace Sparkes, a woman who made

her mark on the political and social fabric of our Province. While Ms Sparkes

was not a member of the political party I serve under, she was a woman who had

strong opinions on many issues in this Province, and she was respected by all

she met.

She was born Grace Margaret Patten in Grand Bank on February 19, 1908, and

she was later honoured for her contributions with the naming of the Grace

Sparkes House in my district, the District of Burin-Placentia West. This house

provides safe accommodations, support and services to the women and children who

are victims of family violence on the Burin Peninsula, a vital service that we

all wish we did not need, but unfortunately we do.

Ms Sparkes, in her life, also received numerous other accolades, including

honourary degrees from Mount Allison and Memorial University, membership in the

Curling Hall of Fame, Alumna of the Year at Memorial University as a founding

member there and, most recently, as a Woman of Exceptional Achievement at the

Fifteenth Annual Cabot Club Dinner. A teacher, journalist, and actress, she also

was a tireless volunteer with contributions to the YMCA, Canadian Red Cross,

Kiwanis Music Festival, Memorial University's Board of Regents, the United

Church of Canada and the National Council on Aging.

One thing I admired most about Grace Sparkes was her pioneering dedication to

the political process in Newfoundland and Labrador, whether by her ardent

support of the return of responsible government in 1945, or her running in the

Province's first provincial and federal elections. Her pioneering achievements

are a shining example for all women who want to get involved in the political

process. Her contributions to individuals, communities and the Province are to

be commended. Her energy and perspectives will most surely be missed, and I ask

all members to join with me in paying tribute to this remarkable woman.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's West

MS S. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I concur with my colleague from Burin-Placentia West. I would like to be

associated with her remarks and also add my tribute as well.

The passing of Gracie Sparkes is a sad moment in the history of Newfoundland

and Labrador, but also a time to celebrate a remarkable life and the colossal

contribution that one person with vision and conviction can make to her

community.

Gracie Sparkes earned a place of honour in the history of Newfoundland and

Labrador by taking a firm and vocal stand in the debates fifty-five years ago on

the future of our country. The challenging circumstances and the bitter

arguments at the time called for people of unwavering conviction, tremendous

challenge, and great strength of character - and Gracie Sparkes had all of those

qualities in bountiful supply. Never the defeatist, she continued to cultivate

the fierce pride and independence of character that burns deeply in the

Newfoundland and Labrador psyche today.

Her contribution extended far beyond the political arena. It went into our

classrooms, our university, our curling arenas, our newspapers, and into our

homes through the medium of television as she brought to life Ted Russell's

feisty and jovial character, Grandma Walcott. She played the role with the same

gusto she brought to all her endeavors, and her character was embraced with the

same affection and admiration with which she herself has been embraced.

In so many ways, for so many years, Gracie has served as a role model and a

trailblazer for women in our Province and in our party. We were proud last year

to inaugurate, in Gracie's honour, a special award celebrating the outstanding

contribution of Newfoundland and Labrador women to our Province. Even at the

remarkable age of ninety-five, she was a character full of vigour and

enthusiasm, challenging us through her words and her example to take on the

difficult tasks and to persevere on the strength of our convictions.

Throughout her life, Gracie Sparkes embodied the true spirit of Newfoundland

and Labrador. She went where no one before her had gone and laid the foundation

on which so many of us have been able to build.

Her legacy is alive in the hearts and lives of all who were privileged to

know her. She will never be forgotten.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the Bay of Islands.

MR. JOYCE: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to congratulate Michael Meade of

Curling, Corner Brook, on his recent win of the gold medal in the aerials event,

at the Junior National Freestyle Ski Championships held in Le Relais, Quebec.

Michael, known as Mogul Mike, is a member of the Marble Mountain Freestyle

Ski Team and is best known as a moguls skier.

Currently a sixteen-year-old student at Regina High School in Corner Brook,

Michael has been competing in competitions since he was ten. He recently

finished competing for Team Newfoundland and Labrador at the 2003 Canada Winter

Games in Campbellton, New Brunswick, where he finished eighteenth in the men's

aerials. This was Michael's second time representing this Province, as he

competed in the 1999 Canada Games in Corner Brook.

Mr. Speaker, I wish to congratulate Michael on his tremendous effort and

accomplishments, as he has spent the last year recovering from surgeries on his

knees, but still competed with bandages on both legs. I applaud him on his

well-deserved win and determination.

I would also like to acknowledge and commend all individuals of this Province

who participated, assisted and/or sponsored the national championships and/or

the Canada Games, on the dedication and efforts to their sport and their

Province. On behalf of myself and all Members of the House of Assembly, I would

like to thank them for their efforts and for proudly representing Newfoundland

and Labrador.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

A few weeks ago I had the honour to participate, along with more than 280

individuals, in the Run for the Janeway 2003 fundraiser in Conception Bay North.

This event, thought to be one of the largest one-day fundraising events in

the history of the Janeway, raised more than $41,000, which will be presented

later this year during the annual Janeway Children's Hospital Foundation

Telethon.

I would specifically like to recognize Bradley Hussey of Clarke's Beach for

raising in excess of $7,200, and David Dwyer of Shearstown for collecting in

excess of $5,300. A special thanks is also extended to the major sponsors for

their tremendous effort and contribution in this event.

Run for the Janeway, which began last year under the chairmanship of Mr. Alex

Dawe of Clarke's Beach, and other volunteers, was developed to show

appreciation and support for the Janeway Hospital. Mr. Dawe experienced

first-hand the resourcefulness and helpfulness of the hospital as his grandson

spent the first of his only seven-month life there.

It is with great pride, Mr. Speaker, that I would like to congratulate all

participants and the organizing committee on their efforts of making this event

a success, as well as all those who supported such a worthy cause.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista North.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HARDING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I wish to take this opportunity to congratulate two residents of Bonavista

North who participated in the special sports category in the recent Canada

Winter Games in New Brunswick.

Twenty-two-year-old Bradley Rideout of Newtown was a participant in

Wheelchair Basketball and did exceptionally well. This was Bradley's second

appearance at the Canada Games in the sport that he started playing in, in 1993,

at the Newfoundland and Labrador School for the Deaf in St. John's. Bradley is

now looking forward to his participation with our provincial team in the

upcoming National Senior Championships in April of this year. Bradley has

completed his high school education and is now trying to get into the College of

the North Atlantic.

Second participant, Mr. Speaker, twelve-year-old Courtney Hunt of Centreville

joined figure skating seven years ago and now is competing as a Special Olympian

in Canada's version of the Olympic Games. Courtney performed at the Winter

Games and did really well. I heard one radio reporter who said that she

"stole the show" when she appeared on ice and did her program. I spoke

with her and her mother after they returned home last week. Courtney made a lot

of new friends and gained a great deal of confidence which she hopes will help

her in her future competitions.

For both of these participants, their participation in the Canada Winter

Games has been an experience they will never forget.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS J.M. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, two years ago this government put in place

a home heating fuel rebate program to assist low income households.

I am pleased to announce today that we are implementing a similar program

this year to provide some relief for low income families -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS J.M. AYLWARD: - as well as for seniors and other individuals who have

been particularly hard hit by price increases for home heating fuel.

As before, this program will provide a $100 rebate to those who are eligible.

It will apply to households that use furnace oil, stove oil or propane gas as

the primary source of heat in the six months up to the end of March this year.

To be eligible, an individual must have received, since July 2002, any amount of

the Newfoundland and Labrador Child Benefit, the Newfoundland and Labrador HST

credit, the Newfoundland and Labrador Seniors Benefit, or received social

assistance in January to May of this year.

Mr. Speaker, price regulation has helped stabilize petroleum prices in this

Province but government has no ability to control the world price of crude oil.

As much as we would like to do otherwise, we cannot afford to provide a rebate

to families of all income levels. We are, therefore, implementing this rebate

program to provide some relief to low income earners who are most vulnerable to

price increases.

Application forms will be published in the Province's daily and weekly

newspapers in the coming weeks. Those forms will also be available from the

Department of Finance, the Department of Human Resources and Employment,

Government Services Centres and the Seniors Resource Centre in St. John's, as

well it can be downloaded from the government Web site.

Mr. Speaker, this is an estimated cost of $2 million and we believe that this

will go a long ways to show people of the Province, and to assist low income

earners, that we are appreciative of what is happening with respect to the world

crude oil prices.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Waterford Valley.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. H. HODDER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We, on this side of the House, want to say that this is a good initiative. We

approved of this initiative two years ago. We wonder why it has taken so long,

in view of the harsh winter we have had, in view of the cold weather and in view

of the requests that have come to the government by seniors, by low income

earners for some assistance. The $100 is relatively low in comparison to the

amount of money that has been expended, the extra money expended this year to

heat homes.

Also, we want to note that while we acknowledge that the rate for electricity

has not increased, yet the consumption that many people have, and low income

earners have, has also gone up considerably. There is no recognition here of any

help for people whose source of heat is by way of electricity. We say again,

this is a -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. H. HODDER: - good initiative, however, we do note that it has been a

little late in coming; but, again, I say probably next year we could do it a

little earlier.

Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We do not oppose this measure, although $100 will not go very far with

heating costs, in some cases, of almost double. We have just seen another nine

cent a litre increase for cost of fuel oil. I want to remind the government that

three years ago when they had an income tax rebate or tax cut program for mostly

benefitting wealthy people in the Province, we put forth a program that would

provide a 15 per cent rebate for all heating costs, whether it be by electricity

or by home heating fuel, which would have gone a long way to reduce the impact

of heating costs on people in the Province.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Newfoundland and Labrador All-Party Committee on 2J3KL and 3Pn4RS Cod

Fisheries presented its report to Robert Thibault, Minister of Fisheries and

Oceans in Ottawa on March 17, 2003. We presented a united Newfoundland and

Labrador position on the critical issues of the future of the Northern and Gulf

cod stocks.

Mr. Speaker, I am tabling the report of the Newfoundland and Labrador

All-Party Committee on the cod fishery. I want to congratulate all Members of

the House of Assembly that participated in this process for their vision and

their dedication toward stability and solid management of these important

resources.

In an unprecedented action, we passed a unanimous resolution in this House of

Assembly to form an all-party committee to prepare our position. Represented on

this committee are the leaders and representatives of all political parties in

the Newfoundland and Labrador House of Assembly. Also represented are

Newfoundland and Labrador's Members of Parliament and the Senate, and I would

like to thank all of them for their contribution and thank Mr. John Efford for

his ability and his time to chair the committee. The Liberals, the Progressive

Conservatives and the New Democratic Party are in solidarity on its

recommendations to rebuild, to protect, and to manage these important cod

fisheries.

Mr. Speaker, any closure will have a devastating impact on the economic and

social well-being of not only those directly affected, but our entire

population. The fishery brings wealth to our economy and some 4,400 people will

be significantly impacted. Many will lose their jobs, many will have lower

incomes, and many will be forced to move.

Mr. Speaker, we have been, and continue to be, guided by the science in the

resource management decision making process. However, it is critical that we be

confident of the science before any decision is made which will affect so many

lives. Our work has shown that there are alternatives to closing fisheries.

We recognize that tough decisions will have to be made to rebuild these

stocks. We are prepared to make these tough decisions. However, we firmly

believe that simply closing fisheries without addressing the most serious and

controllable reasons for the decline in cod stocks, is not the right decision.

Our holistic plan identifies several actions that will contribute to rebuilding

our stocks and our fisheries.

Mr. Speaker, we agree that the impact of fishing on stock rebuilding must be

reduced; however, we feel it can be done without closing these fisheries. We

have recommended other measures that include restricting harvesting gear to hook

and line only, reducing seasons, increasing enforcement, closing fishing

grounds, and by closing other fisheries such as the caplin fishery and also the

recreational cod fishery in areas where stocks are experiencing a downward

trend.

In an effort to save the fish and the fishery, there has to be an increase in

the level of scientific research on fish stock, on seals, and the marine

ecosystem. We must work to rebuild the stocks through enhancement measures. We

must take action to reduce the over-populated seal resource, and take strong,

decisive and immediate action to end the threat of foreign overfishing.

Mr. Speaker, our position was prepared as a result of many decisions,

collectively and individually, with representatives of fish harvesters,

processors, plant workers, community leaders, and scientists. We firmly believe

it represents the vision and pragmatic approach needed to move the fishery

forward and bring stability and sustainability to people, to companies, and to

communities in our Province.

Should the scientific advice recommend no other option but to close these

responsibility to help mitigate the impacts on people and communities. Mr.

Speaker, we need to focus on the growth and renewal in Newfoundland and Labrador's

fishery, not on its demise.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for The Straits & White Bay North.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to take this time to thank the Minister of Fisheries and

Aquaculture for an advance copy of her statement.

Mr. Speaker, as she said throughout her statement, this was an unprecedented

move. It was an unprecedented move when we unanimously agreed to strike the

all-party committee, and I think it is safe to say that it was an unprecedented

move that we managed to stay together for four months and come out with a report

that we all could manage to agree on, that we achieved consensus on quite a

variety of topics and issues, quite controversial topics and issues, with

twenty-two recommendations to put forward to the federal Minister of Fisheries

and Oceans, which we did, as the minister said, a couple of days ago, on Monday

past.

Mr. Speaker, we knew when we went into this that we had two tasks in mind.

One was to try and keep the fishery open. The second, and probably more

important, was to try to find a way to ensure some stock rebuilding in the

Northern cod and Northern Gulf cod areas.

Mr. Speaker, we believe that we put together a plan, and put it forward to

the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, that, when taken in its totality, when

taken as a package - not taken singularly, not cherry-picked - when taken and

implemented as a package, will go some ways towards ensuring some rebuilding and

will make sure that we can have a limited commercial fishery in the West Coast

of Newfoundland and Labrador and Southern Labrador, and also an index in the

sentinel fishery on the Northeast Coast of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, over the past couple of weeks, certainly since, unfortunately,

some of this was leaked in advance of our presentation to the minister, there

has been, as we expected, I guess, quite a bit of controversy surrounding it. I

think it is fair to point out that what we have to understand here from the

numbers that were put together for us by some of the bureaucrats here in the

Confederation Building, we had some numbers that showed the millions of dollars

that will be lost if we lose these fisheries.

Mr. Speaker, I know that the west side of the Northern Peninsula, and the

Southwest Coast of the Province, and Southern Labrador - the area that the

minister represents - and other areas throughout the Province, not just

(inaudible)-

MR. SPEAKER: Order please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. TAYLOR: By leave to clue up, Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. TAYLOR: We know, Mr. Speaker, that those areas, in an area like

Southern Labrador, where we do have hard and fast numbers on it, where $4.5

million was estimated by the Labrador Fishermen's Union Shrimp Company to be

the net economic impact, or the gross economic impact of this fishery on that

area, those areas of the Province cannot afford this hit. We have been through a

closure in this fishery before, and the reason we are saying we cannot afford

the hit of a closure but we can take these other actions is because we know that

just simply closing it and not dealing with the other issues will not solve the

problem. If it would, then we would be supporting it; but it will not, it has

not, and it will not in the future.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to say thank you to all the people who participated

in the all-party committee. There were probably about twenty of us, as

politicians and support staff. While it was a difficult task and a controversial

issue, I would like to say thanks for sticking together for once in Newfoundland

and Labrador on a controversial issue.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This report represents a very great amount of work by politicians of all

stripes, both federal and provincial, representing the people of Newfoundland

and Labrador. I want to compliment the process and also to compliment the

minister's staff on working, in very trying circumstances, to put together a

very fine document that was presented on Monday in Ottawa.

As has been said, the very key recommendations here are that we should keep

in place an information fishery in 2J+3KL. The sentinel and index fishery must

remain in place to keep the fishermen and fish harvesters in the equation and to

make sure that every person in this Province has a short term and a long term

stake in the rebuilding of those stocks, that a hook and line fishery in the

Gulf is also, we believe, sustainable based on the information before us.

The key, as well, is that we have, in addition to that, specific measures to

rebuild those stocks, ones that have not been put in place since the 1992

moratorium, things like we have recommended here, eliminating shrimp trawling in

specific areas where juvenile cod are rebuilding such as the (inaudible)

channel. The key -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. HARRIS: By leave, Mr. Speaker, for a minute to clue up?

MR. SPEAKER: By leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. HARRIS: Key recommendations are going to call for some sacrifice on

the part of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, such as the elimination of

shrimp trawling in certain areas, such as the recreational fishery, such as the

caplin, cutting out the caplin, directed fishery of the caplin. The key now is

what is going to happen next. We have already on record the support of the NDP

fisheries critic, Peter Stoffer, a member of the House of Commons Fisheries

Committee, and we have asked for the support of the House of Commons Fisheries

Committee and the Senate Fisheries Committee, which we hope will be forthcoming

very soon. We really need a positive decision by the Minister of Fisheries for

all of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. LUSH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to update the House on the Cabinet Committee on Air

Policy, Aerospace and the Military.

The Committee was established in December 2001, shortly after 9-11 and the

concerns it created re security and also right on the heels of the withdrawal of

Air Canada's services in certain regions of the Province. The Committee was

directed to provide advice on commercial air presence into and out of various

parts of the Province with particular emphasis on transportation issues Gander

and west, and to develop a coordinated response to decreased seat availability

in and out of our Province. The Committee was also mandated to review issues

surrounding the aerospace industry and military presence and to recommend policy

initiatives to address these areas of concern.

Mr. Speaker, to fulfill its mandate the Committee met with the principal

stakeholders involved with these issues including Air Canada Jazz, Air Labrador,

Provincial Airlines, CFB Goose Bay Allied Commanders and Wing Commander Glynne

Hines, as well as various municipal officials.

An example of our activities, as recently as last week, my colleague, the

Minister of Works, Services and Transportation and I met with the Mayor of

Labrador City and his officials to discuss their concerns with the high cost of

charter services for residents of Labrador.

While air access and the military are within federal jurisdiction, I have

continued efforts to ensure that the Province's concerns on air access and the

the report and since. I have met with federal ministers and the Province's

representatives in the House of Commons and other MPs as well and senators. I

have also discussed military participation in the low level training program at

CFB Goose Bay with the German, Italian, British and Dutch Ambassadors to Canada.

As a result of all of this activity, and the information gathered from all

sources, as Chair, I am pleased to make available in the House today a copy of

the report and its recommendations of this committee on Air Policy, Aerospace,

and the Military. The government has already acted on several of the

recommendations and work will continue on the remaining items.

Mr. Speaker, I look forward to working closely with my colleagues as we

continue our efforts to enhance our air access to and within Newfoundland and

Labrador, and to assist in the growth of the aerospace industry and of the

military presence in Happy Valley-Goose Bay, Gander, and St. John's.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista North.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HARDING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

First of all, I would like to thank the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs

for a copy of his ministerial statement on Air Policy, Aerospace, and the

Military. I would like to compliment the minister and his committee on the work

they have done to date, and I would also like to advise them that, we, on this

side of the House, are prepared to assist them at any time in these very

important issues. Issues, Mr. Speaker, that not only affect the convenience of

the travelling public in this Province, but also have a major impact on the

economic well-being of our Province.

Since I only received a copy of the statement about half an hour ago, I would

like to tell the minister that we will respond more formally with each specific

item after we have a chance to review it more thoroughly.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to thank the minister for a copy of the committee's report on

air transportation in the Province. I would like to say to the minister that

this committee may have been set up to deal with problems in the airline

industry from Gander and west, but since this committee has been set up things

have gotten progressively worse when it comes to airline transportation in the

Northern parts of this Province.

I think, Mr. Speaker, that deregulation has played a lot in the role of the

decline in a good service to the airline industry in this country. I can

understand the impacts it has on tourism and the impacts it has on business in

this Province, but it has a more serious impact - something that I deal with on

a daily basis in my district - and that is the availability of flights in and

out of Labrador when it comes to people having to travel for medical reasons, to

attend deaths in their families, or people who are seriously ill, and things of

that nature when a flight is practically impossible to get.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. COLLINS: By leave, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

These is also another problem with the airline transportation in this

Province and that is a decision by Air Canada not to offer charters out of this

Province. To get a charter flight now by Air Canada, the major carrier in this

country, you have to charter out of Halifax, which is quite more expensive. For

many years people in Labrador, sporting groups and others, have chartered

flights in and out, back and forth to the Province, mainly to St. John's.

Today, this year, Mr. Speaker, the cost of these charter flights have tripled

forcing people in Labrador, in particular, to build allegiances with other parts

of this country, particularly Halifax and New Brunswick, so that now the

sporting meets and the cultural events that take place is not within this

Province at all, like they should be, but are more aligned with people in other

provinces which adds to the feeling of alienation from people in Labrador to the

rest of this Province.

Mr. Speaker, the other thing that we have to do is continue to pressure

Ottawa to bring in regulations to the airline industry and restore a service

that meets the needs of the people in this Province. As an example, Christmas,

the last day that this House sat, I spent most of the day at the airport, and

that had to do more with the attitude of the airline. The attitude left a lot to

be desired on that day, when people who were suppose to travel on December 18

were told to re-book to December 24. Mr. Speaker, nowhere else in this country

would that have been allowed to happen and Air Canada would not have had the

nerve to tell people that in any other area of the country.

While I commend the committee on producing this report, one that I have not

had the opportunity to go through yet, Mr. Speaker, I say to the committee and I

say to the chairperson, who has heard from me quite often over the last number

of months, that there is still much more work to be done to grant access to air

transportation to all areas of this Province.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. LANGDON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

On February 15, the Town of Badger declared a State of Emergency, after water

and ice quickly engulfed about one third of the town. Representatives of the

Emergency Measures Organization and the Fire Commissioner's Office immediately

responded, and are continuing to work through each stage of the emergency.

Within hours, as minister responsible for both of these divisions, I

travelled to Badger, along with the Director of the Emergency Measures

Organization, to join MHA Anna Thistle in assisting with the response efforts.

The commitment of government was immediately apparent, and was enhanced when

the Premier joined us in Badger and attended the Emergency Operations Centre

meetings, and genuine concern expressed during visits with displaced residents,

was a clear indication of this government's support for the people of Badger.

Representatives from many provincial departments, along with Municipal and

Provincial Affairs, Human Resources and Employment, Environment, Government

Services and Lands, Works Services and Transportation, Health and Community

Services, and many other supporting agencies and organizations, also quickly

joined the town council and were diligent in both dealing with the danger at

hand and the safety and comfort of the displaced residents.

The response effort of Badger's firefighters and their Chief, Harry Noel,

was outstanding. How fortunate we are that on February 15 there was no loss of

life. This team of vigilant volunteers, and others who were quick to come to the

assistance of their community, neglected their own property so they could ensure

the life safety of others.

In the weeks following, many firefighters from Badger and other nearby fire

departments held a vigil at night as they watched for signs of danger in the

river. An incredible example of community commitment and value of one's

neighbour.

Volunteer firefighters have a key role throughout Newfoundland and Labrador

in protecting the lives and property of others. Their invaluable services should

not be underestimated.

The support of volunteers was also evident in the temporary accommodations at

the two Pentecostal Churches in Grand Falls-Windsor, and the Carmelite House

which was operated by the Salvation Army, and also the support of the Canadian

Red Cross. In true Newfoundland and Labrador style, food, friendship and comfort

was provided by many people, who were eager to help their neighbors in need.

Indeed, there was a community, provincial and national response to this tragedy.

Under the leadership of Mayor Gerald Hurley and the town council, the

community of Badger is beginning to put their lives and homes back together. But

the town will not be picking up the pieces alone.

The Province immediately recognized the importance of dealing with

compensation for damage in an urgent manner, and committed to providing

financial compensation to residents who had experienced property loss and the

significant infrastructure damage. It is expected that official notification of

federal participation will be received very soon.

The Province committed in the early stages of the disaster, that once it was

safe for residents to return to the town, the damage assessment teams, including

adjustors, would be on the ground to begin assessments.

Indeed, they began the very day that part of the evacuation order was lifted.

Also, the assessments office of the Emergency Measures Organization was also set

up and functioning in Grand Falls-Windsor at that time. As claims are received

they will be processed as expeditiously as possible so that residents can begin

to return their homes to normal.

Most residents whose homes received extensive or irreparable damage have been

placed in longer-term rental units with others to be situated as soon as

accommodations can be secured.

As many decisions must now be made, government is committed to working with

the residents of Badger through the mayor and the council to do what they feel

is in their best interest.

While things are getting much better in Badger each day, there is a long road

ahead. This government will be with them every step of the way.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista South.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I say to members present that we, on this side of the House, like every other

Newfoundlander and Labradorian on March 15 when we realized and saw the events

as they unfolded in the Town of Badger, were saddened, we were shocked, we were

concerned. I guess we were surprised that such an event like this could happen

here in Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, there was one thing that we were not surprised about, was to see

the response from Newfoundlanders and Labradorians who stepped forward and

stepped up in order to respond to the state of emergency as has happened in

Badger. We cannot even imagine as we sit and look and see the pictures of what

happened in this community. We cannot even imagine what those people must be

going through when we see seniors and people lose their worldly belongings,

something that they have worked for all their life, having to rush away from

that in an hour's notice and to vacate their properties and get out of town.

Mr. Speaker, I can understand when I see volunteers in my own community. Just

this past Sunday I attended a church service in Bonavista, an ecumenical service

that was brought about by having a collection and having a special prayer

service for the people in Badger as they try to get on with their lives. I know

members on this side of the House, my colleague here from Waterford-Kenmount

took

part in of a collection to respond to some of the needs. I know our leader

went out to Badger and surveyed the damage there. The Member for Baie Verte and

the Member for Windsor-Springdale was out in the area there as well trying to

offer assistance to reach out and to bring some comfort and hope.

Let me say this, Mr. Speaker, through you, that the people in Badger have

been looked after in the meantime. There is no doubt about that, but I can

assure you that those people should be - and we will make sure the promises that

were made by this government to provide compensation for their full loss will be

adhered to. I can assure you that this member and this caucus over here will

continue to look at what is happening, to question what is happening, and to

respond to the needs of the people from Badger as they are brought forward and

brought to our attention.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We, too, would like to be associated with the comments of the minister,

particularly as he talks about the volunteer efforts that took place in Badger

following this disaster. It is not unexpected that people would rally around the

Town of Badger because that is the type of people we are in this Province. It

was great, too, Mr. Speaker, to see the outpouring of support from across the

country, from people formerly from this Province, doing their things in the

areas where they live right now.

I can identify a bit with this because, in 1982, we had a state of emergency

in Labrador West where we had power lost and we had wind chills in excess of

-130, and we had thousands of people relocated to churches, schools, and people

were out - the Member for Baie Verte is saying he was there at the time. That

was a disaster, with the Armed Forces on alert, and it was very trying times for

people who were out of their homes for lengthy periods of time.

I would just like to say to the minister, having gone through that experience

in Labrador West, I truly hope that the people of Badger do not have some of the

problems to deal with after, when it comes to being compensated properly, and

all the arguments and guidelines that are in place, that happened to us -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. COLLINS: Just by leave to clue up, Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. COLLINS: I hope that the guidelines and things that are put in place

for people of Badger are not so stringent that they cannot get back what they

lost.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions this afternoon are for the Premier.

Yesterday, we all listened with great interest as the government announced a

number of proposals concerning electoral reform; proposals, Mr. Speaker, that

bore a striking resemblance to policies announced by our party in early

February.

Mr. Speaker, two years ago, the Premier stood in this House and promised to

implement all the policies brought forward by our party. It was a commitment he

made and it was a commitment he kept.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, the Throne Speech reduced the size of Cabinet

to no more than one-third of the number of electoral districts, which would

allow for sixteen Cabinet ministers including the Premier; yet, a brief glance

at members opposite shows eighteen Cabinet ministers plus the Premier. In fact,

almost every member opposite who plans to run again, currently has a Cabinet

portfolio.

My question for the Premier is: If he is sincere about reducing the size of

his Cabinet, why didn't he take the opportunity to lead by example and

implement that principle when he recently shuffled his Cabinet? Shouldn't the

Premier practice what he preaches?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Cabinet was shuffled some time ago, just over three weeks ago. Those

questions were asked publicly in the Province by the media. The answers are on

the pages of The Telegram and The Express and other papers.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: On a supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I cannot wait to see what he is going to stand for next week, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, one of the first promises that the Premier made was to have a

smaller Cabinet. Yet, he did not deliver on that promise, despite having the

opportunity to do so on several occasions. His Cabinet has actually grown to the

point that it is now the largest Cabinet in Atlantic Canada.

Mr. Speaker, would the Premier acknowledge to the people of Newfoundland and

Labrador that he did not take the opportunity to lead by example because he is

more concerned about shoring up his chance of re-election than he is about

conducting the business of this Province in an efficient and a proper manner.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we have stated quite clearly what we stand for. I did answer

publicly that, at this point in time, because there is an election some time

within the next several months, and it does take considerable cost, in case he

is not aware of it, to rearrange all the mechanisms and bureaucracies associated

with departments in the government - that is the answer I gave fully and

completely to the people of the Province.

The people of the Province know what we will do after an election. They have

no idea what the Opposition will do, because I have not heard, and no one in the

Province has heard, any statement from the Leader of the Opposition as to what

size of a Cabinet he thinks is appropriate for Newfoundland and Labrador. Maybe

he might stand up now. Everybody knows what we feel is right and proper, and

what will happen after the election. The Cabinet will be no greater than

one-third of the size of the total Legislature as long as we are the Government

of Newfoundland and Labrador, and it will be in a piece of legislation. Maybe

now he might stand up and tell the people of the Province what he would do and

what he thinks is the right size for a Cabinet of Newfoundland and Labrador.

The other point is this, Mr. Speaker: Because he gave some vague references

yesterday to how changes to the Public Tender Act or other things might save

enough money to fix all the ills of Newfoundland and Labrador, maybe he might

also suggest how reducing the Cabinet by two or three people, which might save a

few hundred thousand dollars -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. the Premier now to conclude his answer.

PREMIER GRIMES: - is going to save this problem and change all the

financial circumstances. It is a help, Mr. Speaker. It is a step in the right

direction. It is one that we will do. People know what we stand for.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. the Premier now to conclude his answer.

PREMIER GRIMES: They have no idea whatsoever what he stands for on this

issue or any other.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

By reducing a few of the Cabinet ministers we could save several hundred

thousand dollars on air travel alone, I would think.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Yesterday, we also heard government promise to hold elections on a set date

every four years. Mr. Speaker, I would like to point out to the Premier that

this government is now in its fifth year of office. Given that four years have

now passed, doesn't the Premier feel that it would be appropriate to implement

this policy and set a fixed date for the election today, and then he can find

out what our policies are.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We will have an opportunity to debate the legislation right here in this

House of Assembly, where it should occur, when we introduce it.

Mr. Speaker, I am glad he mentioned the travel because I do have information,

which I am sure the media will have shortly, when we did a comparison, because

there was a story in the paper a day or so ago with respect to travel, in

ministers doing their business, and entertainment. The cost of travel for the

current Cabinet, which is smaller by four than the last Cabinet that the

Conservatives had in place when they were the government -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: - smaller by four - the cost of travel and entertainment,

Mr. Speaker, some fourteen years later, is $200,000 less for this group, despite

the increased cost for airfares, travel, gasoline and other things, $200,000

less in this year than it was for the last year that the group opposite had a

Cabinet -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER GRIMES: - in which they had a bigger Cabinet than we have ever

seen or imagined in this government, and spent more money fourteen years ago

than we have ever spent in the period of time today, even with inflation, Mr.

Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. the Premier now to conclude his answer.

PREMIER GRIMES: I am glad he raised the point. It shows, I guess, we are

about, in their minds, to try to go back to some glorified version of the past.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, yesterday's Throne Speech also talked about another one of our

policy which was campaign financing; however, the Premier's proposal omitted

several key issues, most noticeably financing of leadership campaigns.

Mr. Speaker, to demonstrate the Premier's commitment to transparency and

openness in campaign financing, will the Premier today release the names of the

companies and individuals who contributed to his leadership campaign, as well as

the amount? Will he also go a step further and make such disclosure a

legislative requirement not only for future leadership campaigns but

retroactively to include his own leadership campaign? Doesn't he feel that

leadership should be by example?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would guess the Leader of the Opposition would suggest as well that the

electoral reform. The government in New Brunswick must have borrowed from them,

because they just did complete electoral reform. The government in Saskatchewan

must have been looking in their Blue Book, because they just did a significant

electoral reform. I guess everybody, Mr. Speaker, must be sitting around with

bated breath, wondering what the Conservatives in Newfoundland and Labrador are

doing.

These happen to be matters of public interest, Mr. Speaker. We have stated

our position. Our position talks about expenditures of public funds during the

electoral process in provincial elections. That is what we will bring to the

House, nothing else.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Premier is back to his old position of refusing to answer the questions

again.

Mr. Speaker, the Premier has made a lot of promises about what he will do if

he gets re-elected in the future; however, he steadfastly refuses to act upon

these promises today despite having the opportunity to do so.

Mr. Speaker, can the Premier please explain why he will not implement these

basic and necessary electoral reform policies immediately? Why must he wait

until after an election if he truly, truly, believes in them?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

What we have said is that we plan to bring a bill before this Legislature

this spring, which is before the election.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. WILLIAMS: Effective after the election.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, in the Throne Speech yesterday, this government stated its

proposal to the federal government for a new model for economic development

programming in Newfoundland and Labrador, which would bring together most of

ACOA's provincial office and most of the business lines of industry, trade and

rural development.

Mr. Speaker, could the Premier please explain to the people of Newfoundland

and Labrador why this government represented that a proposal was made to the

federal government when the Minister for ACOA, Newfoundland's representative

in the federal Cabinet, Gerry Byrne, within hours of that announcement, flatly

rejected the concept, quote: out of hand.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

What we did say is that we will put a proposal before the Government of

Canada, and we fully intend to do that. We were disappointed to hear the federal

minister for Newfoundland and Labrador with his response today. My understanding

is that he responded not knowing the details of what we were discussing and, Mr.

Speaker, when he is informed of the details I am sure he will come a supporter

of the concept.

The bigger question, Mr. Speaker, is this. The bigger question, and what the

people of Newfoundland and Labrador would like to know, is whether or not the

Leader of the Opposition thinks that is a good concept. It works very well, by

the way, under the labour market development initiatives, and it works very well

for Newfoundland and Labrador together so that we do not duplicate services; we

do things jointly and together.

It is a concept that we have said we want to put before the Government of

Canada, and I believe, in fairness to Minister Byrne, that he was not

understanding the concept. He thought we were just asking for a continuation of

cost-shared agreements, which we do understand.

Again, the people of Newfoundland and Labrador would like to know where the

Leader of the Opposition stands on that matter, whether he will support us in

agreements and also work jointly -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. the Premier now to conclude his answer.

PREMIER GRIMES: - together in a Canada-Newfoundland board rather than go

our own separate ways and duplicate our efforts.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This is the same minister for Newfoundland and Labrador, Mr. Byrne, who was

not even advised of the Lower Churchill deal when it was in place the last time.

He was not even informed. Why do you think we have a problem with the federal

government, Premier?

Mr. Speaker, would the Premier please advise the people of this Province if

there are any other proposals in the Throne Speech which are also based on

incorrect information?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, you will have to ask a different question because I do not know

exactly what he is talking about, with a broad-based general inference.

Mr. Speaker, I can tell you that Minister Byrne, we try to work with

regularly and effectively on behalf of the people of the Province, and I am sure

the people of the Province would want us to be working with the federal minister

and the federal government to try to get some things accomplished for

Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. Like anybody else Mr. Speaker, he could not be

informed of the deal with respect to the Lower Churchill because there wasn't

one.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In yesterday's Throne Speech, Mr. Speaker, government continues to boast

about one of the greatest fallacies within our education system. The speech made

the following reference, "My Government is also committed to maintaining

the best pupil- teacher ratio in Canada, currently at one teacher for every 13.5

students."

I ask the Minister of Education, how can this minister support such a

statement when he knows full well that this does not accurately reflect what is

taking place in many of our classrooms throughout Newfoundland and Labrador?

And, what explanation does he offer those students and teachers who sit daily in

classrooms with students numbering between thirty and forty?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The answer to my critic's question is simple. I support it because it is

true.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Just prior to the House sitting this afternoon, I spoke with an educator in

Central Newfoundland who told me of a situation in a school in Central

Newfoundland where in a Grade 5 classroom, for example, there are some

thirty-six students on a daily basis.

I ask the minister: What does he say to the students in his own district, at

J. M. Olds Collegiate in Twillingate, where, in an academic math class, the

ratio is one teacher to thirty-six students, and in a Grade 7 social studies

class there is one teacher to forty-two students? What does he say to those

people?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, I stand by what was in the Throne Speech

yesterday. We do indeed, by any measurement. If the hon. member wants to check

with the officials in the Department of Education, they do not lie. By any

measurement, you will see that we have the lowest student-teacher ratio in this

country.

With regard to the number of students in an individual classroom, that is up

to the school board to assign to each school the number of teachers each have.

I also say to the hon. member opposite, if there is a class in my district,

if there is class in J. M. Olds Collegiate this afternoon with forty students in

it, there is another classroom in that school with five or six.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: This problem lies directly at the hands of the

Department of Education and this minister who is now charged with the

responsibility to ensure that education is done properly in this Province.

I ask the minister: Why is it that he is giving this false impression to the

public that the minister, for example, is taking into account school

administrators, special education teachers, education psychologists, guidance

counsellors, and school board supervisors, as examples? Therefore, why doesn't

he offer the true picture of what is really taking place?

I ask the minister: Will he confirm that these particular positions that I

have just given as examples are factored into his formula and therefore does not

necessarily have anything to do whatsoever with the day-to-day instruction in

the classroom, the instruction that takes place on a daily basis in our

classrooms between our teachers and their students?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

MR. REID: If the hon. member would take the time, rather than criticize,

to check out the facts, he would understand that, yes, the administrators, yes,

the special ed teacher, yes, the librarians and every other group of teachers is

included in the ratio, but they are also included in the ratios of the schools

right straight across this country and we still have the lowest student-teacher

ratio in this country. I continue to stand by that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's South.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, my questions are for the new Minister of Environment.

Minister, your department stated on the record just last summer that there

were no transformer casings from Makinsons disposed of at the New Harbour dump

site. That was wrong. The former Minister of Environment then stated in this

House, just a few months ago, that all transformer casings were properly cleaned

of all PCBs before disposal. That, too, was wrong.

The official report on the Makinsons cleanup, done and presented to the

Department of Environment in 1994, says that the transformer casings were

disposed of still containing PCBs.

Why would the government allow those transformer casings to be disposed of,

while still containing PCBs, at a public dump site, and then deny it?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment.

MR. MERCER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I appreciate the question from my honourable the critic.

The situation in the New Harbour barrens, the dump site, has been one that

has been ongoing for quite some time. I think we need to take a look a little

bit at the history of the site. It has been there for some thirty-odd years. It

is a privately operated site. It has been accepting and disposing of refuse

there for quite a long time. It is very much a contaminated site. There is no

doubt about that, Mr. Speaker.

The issue of the cleanup on Hodgewater Line, where the PCBs, the

transformers, it is instructive as well to understand why the transformers were

in the gentleman's scrap metal yard to begin with. They were there because

there was copper within the transformer which needed to be - or in his opinion,

he felt had value and could be recycled. What he did, Mr. Speaker, was to take

the heads out of those transformers, incorrectly dispose of PCBs on the

Hodgewater Line, and remove the copper.

It is my understanding from the officials of the department that those

transformers were cleaned. They had been on the site for some time, dripping the

PCBs, unfortunately, and that is another issue which was dealt with. The

transformers were appropriately cleaned. After a couple of dippings there was no

further substantial amount of PCBs emanating from that. They were approved for

disposal, and one of the sites which they were disposed at was on the New

Harbour barrens.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for St. John's South.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I have the report here and it says quite clearly in the report that those

containers still contained the PCBs under the government controlled cleanup, and

they were then dumped at New Harbour. Why would government allow the workers at

the dump site, the heavy equipment operators, the general public, to come into

contact with those transformers without any warning that they still contained

PCBs, or even provide them with advice on how to take precautions to protect

themselves? There was no public notice, no signs, no notice at all. In fact,

government continued to deny that they contained PCBs. Why did your department

put people's public health at risk?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MERCER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Clearly, the member opposite is not hearing what I am saying or else he

chooses not to hear what is being said.

What is being said very clearly by officials within the Department of the

Environment, the transformers were cleaned, they were cleaned, they were

cleaned, and there were very minute traces of PCBs left. In the opinion of the

officials, they no longer constituted a health hazard and they were approved for

disposal on the New Harbour barrens.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the Member for St. John's

South.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. OSBORNE: Mr. Speaker, that is not true. I would advise the

minister to read the report himself.

The permit issued by your department clearly states that those transformers

were supposed to go to an approved site to accept PCBs. New Harbour is not. Will

you call an inquiry into how these contaminated transformers ended up in an

unapproved, unsecured, dump site, and a cleanup that was commissioned by your

department, under the control of your department, and then the coverup that

continues to follow?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MERCER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Once again, the member opposite is demonstrating his lack of knowledge of the

information. The information is very clear, that the PCBs that were contained in

the transformers and transported to the New Harbour site were very minute. They

presented no appreciable damage. I should not say no appreciable; they

constituted no threat to human health in that area, none whatsoever, Mr.

Speaker.

For the member's own knowledge, we have been working with a committee out

there for quite some time. We have been working with them for the last several

months. We have actually had a consultant on site who has done phase one of a

study, who has done a determination of the type of leachates coming from that

dump site. He had made his report and he is now in the process of doing a phase

two to determine the extent and distribution of both the leachate and any or all

PCBs which may or may not be coming from the site.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for the Premier. The Canada-Newfoundland and Labrador Economic

Development Board announced in your Speech from the Throne yesterday was shot

down this morning by ACOA Minister, Gerry Byrne. Also this morning, Environment

Minister David Anderson killed any hope of changing the decision to end weather

forecasting at the Gander Weather Station three days after meeting with the

Premier.

Mr. Speaker, my question is: What credibility does his government have with

Weather Office, which was accomplished by Manitoba in the case of Winnipeg, and,

Canada-Newfoundland Economic Development Board? What credibility does this

issues for Newfoundland and Labrador?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is not a matter of what credibility a government has. We are convinced

what the people of Newfoundland and Labrador want. What we have seen in short

order is, as I have said in the case of Minister Byrne - I believe he answered a

media question, not understanding exactly what the concept of the

Canada-Newfoundland board is, and we will deal with that. In the meantime, Mr.

Speaker, I believe that everybody in the Province is disappointed to hear the

initial response from Minister Anderson, through the Open Line today, and in a

letter he also sent that was received in the government offices late yesterday,

and we are still determined to present to them alternatives with respect to

Gander, because we believe the people of Newfoundland and Labrador want those

alternatives.

It is not a matter of credibility of the government, Mr. Speaker. It is an

issue that has been raised many times, through the Royal Commission and

elsewhere, about how Newfoundlanders and Labradorians generally feel about

want to deal with Minister Anderson, we want to deal with Minister Byrne, we

of us are in a position, to tell them what to do. That is not how it works. All

we can understand is that we believe we have the full support of this

Legislature -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. the Premier now to conclude his answer.

PREMIER GRIMES: - the full support of this Legislature in making the

representation that we did to Minister Anderson.

It is not a matter of the government being disappointed; it is a matter of

everybody in Newfoundland and Labrador being disappointed and upset and, in

fact, not at all pleased with the responses we have received to date, but it

does not mean we are going to give up, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further in relations with Ottawa, when the all-party committee presented its

recommendations to Minister Thibault on Monday, absent from that meeting was

Minister Byrne. Can the Premier assure us that we have the full support of our

representative in the federal Cabinet for our proposals, and that influence is

going to be used in the Government of Ottawa to try and make a decision that is

in keeping with these recommendations?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: Yes, Mr. Speaker.

On behalf of the all-party committee I did approach Minister Byrne directly

for the recommendations that are there with respect to the fishery and he

assures me that he will do what he can inside the government. It is only

Minister Byrne, or anyone else, who can speak for themselves to the people of

the Province. I can relate the conversation I had with him, Mr. Speaker, and I

hope that we have better success than we have in the last little while.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's South.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question, again, is for the Minister of Environment. Page 64 of the

report, Mr. Speaker, efforts to clean the weathered transformer casings by

solvent rinsing proved to be ineffective. The CCME recommended method of double

rinsing also proved to be inadequate to clean the casings. I ask the minister

this - the numbers are here. There was no substantial decrease in the amount of

PCBs in those containers. Have you read this report and are you going to call an

inquiry into the disposal of those transformers at that dump site?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MERCER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Perhaps the member could tell me precisely the report that he is quoting from

because there are several such reports in the department. He might wish to give

me the actual one, the date and the year because we have many of them over there

and I have read many of them as well.

But, Mr. Speaker, I just want to go back to the point that I made initially.

The transformers on the Hodgewater Line were there because the salvager wanted

to get the copper. The copper was in the case. It was covered in PCBs. He broke

open the case. The cases were sitting on the ground for a number of years. How

much PCBs would have been contained in them in liquid form or any other after

several years sitting on the ground and draining out? I would suggest minimal at

the very best.

The information which I have, Mr. Speaker, is that those transformers have

been appropriately cleaned. They were cleaned to very residual trace of PCBs

before being authorized for transfer to any disposal site. That is the

information that I have. If the hon. member opposite has any information to the

contrary, I would love to see it.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

Time for one quick question.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Industry, Trade and Rural

Development. The Immigration Investment Fund that was launched by the federal

government, and with each province participating, proved in this Province to be

a national disgrace. Members, in terms of the - absolutely. The Minister of

Finance puts a long face on her. I refer to the Auditor General's report where

it says exactly that. Recently there have been proposals made -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. member now to get to his question.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Recently, there have been proposals made by different industry groups or

different groups respecting different industries in the Province of how to

improve and take advantage of such programs, the Immigration Investment Fund, to

the advantage of the provincial economy. The minister, I believe, knows what I

am talking about and I will ask her today: Why is your department dragging their

feet on such exciting and forward-looking proposals?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Industry, Trade and Rural

Development.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, let me start by correcting the false statement

that the department is dragging its feet. Nothing could be further from the

truth. What we are doing is working very closely with those interested parties

to find a way to make this a reality, to again capitalize on the opportunities

that are there, and we will do just that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Question period has ended.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

MS J.M. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will try not to put my long face on for this now if I can.

Pursuant to

section 55.(3) of the Financial Administration Act, I wish to

report that there have been no guaranteed loans paid out by the Province since

the last annual report to the House. In addition, and pursuant to

section

55.1.(2), I wish to report that there have been no guaranteed debt of any Crown

corporation or agency assumed by the Province since the last annual report to

the House of Assembly.

Further, Mr. Speaker, pursuant to

section 49.(2) of the Financial

Administration Act, I wish to table the attached list of temporary loans raised

under

section 48 of the Financial Administration Act since the last report to

the House of Assembly.

MR. SPEAKER: In accordance with

section 39 of the Royal Newfoundland

Constabulary Act, 1992, I hereby table the annual report of the Royal

Newfoundland Constabulary Public Complaints Commission for the period April 1,

2001, to March 31, 2002.

Petitions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to present a petition on behalf of a number of residents from

the Bishop's Falls area, Point Leamington, Grand Falls-Windsor and other

communities in Central Newfoundland.

Mr. Speaker, the petition deals with the question of - and I will read the

whereases:

WHEREAS the Newfoundland and Labrador Prescription Drug Program only provides

medication coverage for seniors under the Senior's Drug Subsidy Program and

for people on income support; and

WHEREAS these drugs are quite expensive; and

WHEREAS all citizens in other Canadian provinces can receive assistance with

high cost MS drugs, using co-payment and sliding scale program, not limited to

social assistance income levels; and

WHEREAS these drugs can significantly improve the quality of life for people

with MS.

We the undersigned petition the House of Assembly to direct the government to

implement a co-payment or a sliding scale program for these drugs so that people

who do not qualify for assistance under the existing programs can get financial

assistance with these drugs, as is the case in every other Canadian

jurisdiction.

Mr. Speaker, I have been raising this issue for quite some time in this House

of Assembly and I have been doing it because I know there are large numbers of

people in this Province who desperately need assistance with the purchase of

these drugs.

Right now, Mr. Speaker, people are forced to financially ruin themselves and

their families in order to get a drug to treat their illness. So, in other

words, people are having to make a choice between providing food in some cases,

providing a roof over the heads of their families, sacrificing their children's

education and their own retirement simply to be able to take a drug that they

need to treat the illness that they did not bring on themselves; not an illness

that they asked for but one that they inherited.

Mr. Speaker, I also know that the Minister of Finance, in her travels around

the Province recently on the pre-Budget meetings that she was conducting, heard

this time and time again, that there is a need for government to get in line

with the rest of the provinces in this country and introduce a system that will

assist people with the purchase of these drugs.

As I said earlier, Mr. Speaker, many people in this Province should not be

placed in the position of taking a drug that they require to treat their illness

or for the other things that they need in life as well. Many people, Mr.

Speaker, do not have the luxury of having a prescription drug plan from their

employment that will allow them to have these drugs covered. There are other

plans, Mr. Speaker, quite good plans actually, that only provide partial

coverage.

Mr. Speaker, it is the hard working people of this Province, the people who

are paying taxes on a daily basis, the people who are contributing to all the

other things that we enjoy in this Province, who are negatively impacted -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. COLLINS: Just by lease to clue up, Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, it is the working people, the working men and

women of this Province, who are suffering when it comes to having their lives

turned upside down financially, simply because they have an illness that they

didn't ask for and they have drugs that they require, and in order to get the

drugs that they need to treat their illness they have to spend basically all of

their income in order to purchase these drugs and neglect the other needs that

their families have.

I encourage this government, Mr. Speaker, to introduce such a policy, such a

co-payment system and get in line with the times, catch up to the rest of Canada

and provide the same type of program in this Province as every other resident of

this country enjoys.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista South.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I stand today to present a petition, as well, and the petition reads:

To the Honourable House of Assembly of Newfoundland and Labrador, in

Legislative Session convened,

The Petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland and Labrador.

WHERAS Route 235 from Plate Cove East to the Open Hall intersection has not

been upgraded since its was paved approximately twenty-six years ago; and

WHERAS this

section of route 235 is in such a terrible condition that

vehicles are being damaged, including school buses serving schools in the area,

and school children are finding their daily trips over the road very difficult.

WHEREFORE your petitioners urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador

to upgrade and pave the approximately three kilometres of Route 235 from Plate

Cove East to the Open Hall intersection.

And, as in duty bound you petitioners will ever pray.

Mr. Speaker, people in this Legislature have heard me talking before, many

times, about the condition of Route 235. This

section of roadway to which I

refer here today, this three kilometres of roadway, has now seen a sign posted

on it. Now, this is one of the main arteries leading through the District of

Bonavista South, one of the main roads leading to the Trans-Canada Highway.

Today on that

section of roadway there is a sign posted: Caution, speed limit

thirty kilometres an hour. Mr. Speaker, that is twenty miles per hour on one of

the main artery roads on the Bonavista Peninsula; twenty miles per hour.

It was only a week and a half, two weeks ago, that I had a call from a lady

in the area there who had made a trip home from Bonavista back in that area and

indicated to me that she had hit one of the potholes on that

section of road,

beat a hole in the base pan of her car and lost the engine. She went then and

proceeded to get a new engine put in her car, after the engine was put in she

found out that the transmission was gone. With the oil gone from the engine,

there was heat buildup there and caused the problem in the transmission. So not

only did she lose the engine in her car, but lost the transmission as well. You

are talking about probably a $5,000 or $6,000 bill for travelling over one of

the main roads on the Bonavista Peninsula that has been neglected for the past

fifteen years. This is a

section of road that school buses travel over on a

regular basis. This is a

section of road that seniors have to use, and everybody

else, in order to access government services and in order to have access either

to other communities in the area or the Trans-Canada Highway. That is not

acceptable. When you see what people in that particular area are paying for the

cost of licenses, the cost of taxes on gasoline, the cost of registering their

vehicles -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. FITZGERALD: By leave to finish up, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. FITZGERALD: This is certainly not acceptable in the twenty-first

Century to have to drive over one of the main roads through a district leading

to the Trans-Canada Highway that exists in such a condition; whereby, the

Department of Works, Services and Transportation has to reduce the speed limit

to twenty miles an hour - totally unacceptable.

I ask the minister if he would take this petition, and others that I have

raised here, very seriously when he puts forward his appropriations for the

Budget and include some of this road work to be attended to in this fiscal year

on the Bonavista Peninsula.

Orders of the Day

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. LUSH: Motion 1, the hon. the Minister of Finance and President of

Treasury Board - To Move that the House resolve itself into a Committee of the

Whole on Supply to Consider Certain Resolutions for the Granting of Interim

Supply to Her Majesty. (Bill 2).

MR. SPEAKER: Motion 1, the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS J.M. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I have received a message from His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor.

MR. SPEAKER: To the hon. the Minister of Finance:

I, the Lieutenant-Governor of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador,

transmit Estimates of sums required for the Public Service of the Province for

the year ending March 31, 2004. By way of Interim Supply and in accordance with

the provisions of

section 54 and 90 of the Constitution Act, 1867, I recommend

these estimates to the House of Assembly.

Sgd.:

Edward Roberts, Lieutenant-Governor.

The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MS J.M. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, I move that the message, together with a

bill, be referred to the Committee of Supply.

On motion, that the House resolve itself into a Committee of Supply, Mr.

Speaker left the Chair.

Committee of the Whole

MADAM CHAIR (M. Hodder): The hon. the Minister of Finance.

MS J.M. AYLWARD: Thank you, Madam Chair.

I am very pleased today to introduce an Interim Supply bill for the year

2003-2004 which will be presented to this House of Assembly and makes provision

for three month's supply as per usual, as with any Interim Supply. This, of

course, represents approximately 30 per cent of the 2003-2004 budgeted gross

current and capital account expenditures.

Interim Supply is basically intended to provide for the continuation of

ongoing expenses of government programs and projects. It is a routine bill,

although the numbers are far from routine because they represent a portion of a

$4 billion Budget that we will bring down in just a short few days.

This particular Interim Supply bill that we are talking about today will

cover six pay periods and it will also allow for the ongoing program and project

funding requirements which is applicable in this coming fiscal year 2003-2004.

This will provide departments with sufficient cash flows so that they are able

to manage both their current and their capital expenditures for this year, for

the period of April 1, 2003 conclusive, to June 30, 2003 at which point, of

course, the main supply bill will then come into effect to sustain the Budget

for the rest of the remaining fiscal year. It is normally intended to fund new

services. However, an Interim Supply bill does have the ability to provide for

new expenditures; of course, provided that is outlined in the House of Assembly,

which is what I would like to do this afternoon.

The 2003-2004 Interim Supply bill includes, this year, funding for two new

expenditure initiatives of which, I think, Members of the House of Assembly are

familiar with. One, of course, was mentioned yesterday in the Throne Speech as

it related to the broadband initiative, a $5 million allocation that would be

done in collaboration, of course, with both the federal government and a private

sector partner. This agreement has not been reached in terms of securing all

components but there is a component to the Interim Supply bill that would allow

government, in the event that both the federal government and the private sector

partner come on stream, that we would be able to begin to fund and flow the

monies for this very important initiative which, I am sure, my colleague, the

Minister of Industry, Trade and Rural Development, would be only too happy to

speak about in some more detail. This, of course, is an allocation that we

believe is a very important one and one that is important not only for urban

areas but perhaps more importantly for rural areas of the Province, a very

significant component of business allowing people to achieve new businesses or

grow existing businesses in any community of rural or urban Newfoundland and

Labrador.

The other particular component that would be seen as new would be under an

agriculture policy framework which is a new agreement which is slated to start

April 1 of this year. It is a new agreement that will come in effect after what

was previously called the Safety Nets Program for the Department of Agriculture.

Again, I am sure that my colleague from Forest Resources and Agrifoods would

only be too happy to delve into any new information and discussion about this

new program. Again, it is slated to come into place April 1. We know how short

our season is in this Province and oftentimes the ability to move very quickly

to implement new programs is important, not only for the Province and for the

fiscal health of the Province, but also for the overall health and safety and

security of farmers and those availing of these kinds of funds to grow their own

local industry. Again, I would say that both of my colleagues would be happy to

speak about these particular initiatives in some more detail.

Again, I think it is important to note that as with any Interim Supply bill

it is interim in as much as it is designed for a three month period to allow

government programs and services to bridge the gaps for payroll, for capital,

and to start their programs and services. Generally, it does not include new

items but in this particular case we have put forward the provision to allow two

new expenditure items, as I pointed out. One with relation to broadband and one,

of course, in relation to the agricultural framework policy.

It is important that the Interim Supply bill receive royal assent by March 26

of this year. Again, it is important, as it has been in previous years, based on

pay periods and based on the allocation of funds that are provided for

recipients of social assistance so that in fact, particularly that those in

Labrador will be able to receive their social assistance cheques in time to meet

their commitments, this bill has to receive royal assent by March 26. Of course,

particularly for the purposes of Labrador and those receiving their payment, as

of April 1, 2003.

I would like to take a moment, if I could, just to go through the bill in a

little bit more detail as it refers to the actual allocations of funding and why

it is so important. I would expect many of my colleagues to have an opportunity

to speak about the expenditures in their departments and to answer any questions

about the related information associated with it. Of course, this does not

include any questions directly related to the Budget because the Budget will be

brought down next week, but it will certainly explain the importance and

necessity for carrying on all expenditures. The list concludes all of government's

programs and services. There is also a line item here for allowing the

Legislature to continue to work during this period of time, allowing members to

have access to their district funds, allowing members to avail of the House of

Assembly and the televising of the House of Assembly; as well as the Auditor

General's department, the Child Advocate and also the Citizens'

Representative. Those figures are also included in the overall allocation amount

of $1.3 billion for Interim Supply.

If we were to look at each of the heads of expenditures or the various

departments you can see that there is an allocation for each of these

departments. We have Health and Community Services - and I could speak briefly

to each of these and why they are necessary, but I think most people will

recognize that by providing an Interim Supply bill you are merely allowing the

departments to continue on with the programs and services they are currently

providing. I am sure my colleague from Health and Community Services could speak

about the various programs and services that are available to people, ranging

from the running of our hospitals, our community services programs, our nursing

homes, home support, and the list goes on.

Also, other departments - like Industry, Trade and Rural Development, I heard

my colleague earlier speak about the importance of continuing to grow the

business sector and continuing on with the very important growth of our rural

and urban areas, and that allocation there is set aside for that.

Our Housing Corporation has an allocation, for example, of $2.8 million, and

this allows for, for example, the maintenance and repair program to continue for

our social housing programs in the Province, and also to allow for that kind of

maintenance and to make sure people are able to fill houses as they become

available.

Justice, as well, has an allocation of $35 million, and this is the

proportionate amount required for policing services in our Province, both from

RCMP and RNC, as well as all of the other responsibilities associated with legal

aid, in providing the services that people have come to expect through a

Department of Justice.

Environment also has an allocation of $1.9 million, and this allocation is

provided to allow government and the environment to continue with its work, for

example, to move forward with environmental impact studies and to do all the

necessary work that allows normal business and growth and development to occur,

and these things have to happen.

Each of the departments, including Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs, the

Department of Fisheries and Aquaculture, a very important department in our

government for a number of reasons, perhaps never more important than now, in

light of some of the decisions that are being brought forward in terms of the

life and outlook for our fishery. Again, Works, Services and Transportation.

Included in this amount, there is an allocation of the Labrador Transportation

Initiative Fund, which we will look at moving forward on Phase III of the

Trans-Labrador Highway, again, which is a very important piece of work for the

people of Labrador and for all the people of the Province, because what is good

for Labrador is good for Newfoundland. What is good for urban Newfoundland and

Labrador is good for rural Newfoundland and Labrador. So these are good projects

and a significant allocation.

Forest Resources and Agrifoods, as I have pointed out, contains an allocation

for a cost-shared agreement with the federal government, which will look at a

number of new initiatives, and it looks at a new agreement to replace the old

cost-sharing agreement that was in place.

Also, I think it is important to note that Education, which is very

important, has an allocation of $184 million and this speaks to, again, payment

of teachers' salaries and being able to provide the types of programs and

services through that department.

So, Madam Chair, today I am happen to introduce the bill on Interim Supply.

The bill is for $1.3 billion - $134,772,200 - and this is introduced today in

the House with the intent of it receiving Royal Assent by March 26 in order to

allow delivery of the cheques, particularly to Labrador. The amount is in the

bill for breakdown, for people to look at, and again I think it is important to

have the opportunity to say that this is a - I would not call it routine but it

is certainly a piece of legislation that is introduced at the beginning of each

fiscal year to allow government's programs and services to continue on so that

people are not disadvantaged. Then, of course, this is followed by a main supply

bill which maintains the other nine months of the fiscal year and then allows

for the full program services and any new programs that may be announced in the

Budget. Any new services, any new incentives, all of those components will be

maintained and announced within the Budget and will be provided for under the

main supply bill.

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

MADAM CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to say a few words on this Interim Supply Bill that the Minister of

Finance just introduced, and she referred to it as a routine bill. I suppose it

is routine in the light that it is introduced each year, but other than that it

is not really routine. You are talking about $1.349 billion worth of money that

is to be spent by this Administration within the next few months. They want this

House of Assembly to approve it by March 26.

Madam Chair, we are into March 20, I believe, and they want this approved by

March 26. Tomorrow is Friday, the House does not sit; on Saturday and Sunday,

the House does not sit. So, on Monday or Tuesday of this week they want this

$1.349 billion approved.

The House could have easily been opened up a week ago, two weeks ago, a month

ago. That is a decision for government. Again, a typical situation: come in

here, bring in legislation and try and get it forced through the House of

Assembly in a short period of time, when it is required we give it proper and

due consideration.

Madam Chair, the minister went through the bill, the different departments.

She went through most of the departments, I believe, with respect to the amounts

of money that would be needed or allocated for each department. I do not need to

go through that; we have it here. Each department, of course, depending on the

size of the department, is looking for different amounts of money. Again, it is

money that we have to look at very - I was going to say conservatively, but we

have to give a lot of consideration to before approved through this House of

Assembly.

With respect to this bill, Bill 2, referred to as the Interim Supply Act, it

is basically the start, in my mind, of the government spending money on the next

election. We saw yesterday in the House of Assembly, the Throne Speech,

presented by the Lieutenant-Governor, which gives the plans of this

Administration over the next year or two, five years, or whatever the case may

be.

Madam Chair, I have to say, when I was listening to that Speech yesterday, I

had some concerns about it. The editorial in today's paper, in The Telegram ,

pretty well got it right. Right now, after fourteen years in power, basically

fourteen years, they are going to promise the world. In an election year they

are going to promise the world. I just want to read something here that is in The

Telegram today, the editorial.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: We will handle that.

It says, "With government now deliberately accentuating the positive, we

may be unable to accurately gauge where we are. Because of that, we should take

every promise made, every budget claim set, with a grain of salt. And befitting

the weather on the day of the throne speech, we should take it with one of those

big, fat, flat-sided grains of dirty brown road salt."

Madam Chair, that is what was said and I have to agree with that.

AN HON. MEMBER: Do you want to say it? I am sorry, I missed it. Do you

want to repeat it for me?

MR. J. BYRNE: You want me to repeat it? You definitely want me to repeat

it. One of my colleagues here wants me to repeat this.

It says, "With government now deliberately accentuating the positive, we

may be unable to accurately gauge where we are. Because of that, we should take

every promise made, every budget claim set, with a grain of salt. And befitting

the weather on the day of the throne speech, we should take it with one of those

big, fat, flat-sided grains of dirty brown road salt." That is what is out

there in public, Madam Chair.

Yesterday, I was quite amused, actually, because what I saw again was this

campaign of fear that has been started by the Administration, by the government,

with respect to this election year concerning us. We saw it started yesterday.

The Leader of the Opposition stood on his feet and responded to the Throne

Speech, and was quite frank and forward, and the Premier got up and twisted the

facts, as he usually does. Madam Chair, he twisted the facts and said that, you

know, the people do not know where we stand on the issues. Completely untrue.

Every issue that is out there, we have been quite forward and upfront about it.

He talked about the cuts that are going to come in the future from us. Now, that

is completely untrue. What the Leader of the Opposition said was this. He said

that he would not be held accountable for campaign promises made by this

Administration during an election. That was what he said. He never said anything

about past collective agreements that were signed by this Administration. As a

matter of fact, Madam Chair, we should put the people at east out there. They

should not be listening to this fear campaign. The Leader of the Opposition has

publicly stated at the biennial convention at NAPE, and the leader there who has

been recently in the media, the leader of NAPE who was sitting next to him, and

our leader got a standing ovation

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. J. BYRNE: Madam Chair, I know it is hard for members on the opposite

side of the House of Assembly - they are getting quite rambunctious over there -

to hear the truth. I know that, but so be it.

He spoke at the biennial convention in NAPE and said that he would honour the

collective agreements. Now, how much forward and frank can you be? As a matter

of fact, the leader of NAPE was there at his side, and he had a standing ovation

from NAPE, and we have this Administration now trying to set the fear of the

people in us.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Anyway, that was what was said, Madam Chair. We have this

group trying to push that we are going to cutting and cutting. It is not the

case at all. We will be quite honest and up front with the people of

Newfoundland and Labrador, as we have been in the past.

Basically, Madam Chair, all they are trying to, I suppose, with this Speech

yesterday and the Budget coming down - and people should be well aware, to

expect it. I mean, this Administration has been in power for fourteen years;

they should be well aware of what is coming in the Budget next week. There is

going to be all kinds of promises made. They are going to be there. But why now,

after fourteen years, are they promising these things in education, in

transportation, all the issues that we have been bringing forward on this side

of the House of Assembly. As a matter of fact, their plan - I have to refer to

it here. This is what they said. In their plan, the Speech from the Throne, he

said: A Government with a Plan.

Well, Madam Chair, I remember in this House of Assembly, that the Premier

stood in his place and said: What we will do, we will implement all the Tory PC

policies by the next election and you will have none. So their plan, of course,

is to implement our policies. There they are. Policy that works. He said -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I can get a copy of Hansard and show you. I quote where it

was listed there, right away.

Now we have the new Minister of Labour, who just got demoted, the Minister of

Labour over there on the other side.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Oh, yes.

AN HON. MEMBER: Labour is not the important (inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: It is very important in the Province of Newfoundland and

Labrador, but what I am saying to the minister, the number of people, personnel

in your department versus the number of personnel in Works, Services and

Transportation is quite different so the amount of dollars that is being spent

in your department versus that one is quite different. Therefore, your

responsibilities are reduced from that perspective.

Madam Chair, it says, a focused and realistic plan, in the Throne Speech

yesterday. It talks about a true and equal partnership in the Canadian union. We

have seen, Madam Chair, a good history and record of this Administration and

their - what is the right word? - their friendships or their negotiation powers

between here and Ottawa. I would have to remind them recently of Port Harmon

being privatized out there. I would remind them of what is going on in Gander,

no communications. I would remind them of Air Canada, what is going on with the

cutbacks in this Province, and I would remind them of the transportation issues.

The former Minister of Works, Services and Transportation, Madam Chair,

publicly stated in this House of Assembly that they basically had no clout with

Ottawa. I remember an issue was brought forward, I asked him questions on it,

and he stood in this House of Assembly and said: Well, we brought it forward up

in Ottawa but we did not get anywhere with it; we did not have any clout in

Ottawa. They looked at us, we are only seven seats, Madam Chair. A poor

attitude, poor attitude.

When we look at this Throne Speech, and the bill that was brought in today by

the Minister of Finance, I think we need to have a very serious look at that and

be quite concerned about where we are going here.

Now the Premier, and in this Throne Speech also - and this money that is

being looked at here in this Bill 2 will go towards the financing, of course, of

some of the promises that were made yesterday in the Throne Speech, and will be

further highlighted in the Budget next week. It talked about electoral reform.

Now, Madam Chair, it was only a few weeks ago that we talked about electoral

reform, and talked about the lobbying. That is another one of our policies

adopted by this Administration. We cannot knock them for that. Good. If it is a

good idea, we will support it. It is one of ours. What I have to say, Madam

Chair, I have to talk about the hypocrisy of it, the hypocrisy of that

statement.

Now we have a government saying they are going to look at fixed terms, four

years, set a date, and everybody will know when the election is. Now we have a

Premier in this Province who is now well into his fifth year, elected as Premier

in a convention, making deals all over the Province. One was - he tried to do

the Lower Churchill - Voisey's Bay. He did not have, from my perspective, the

mandate to do it. He won the Premiership by what? Six votes, or something like

that. Now he is here talking about electoral reform.

We had the Leader of the Opposition ask questions today and he really would

not answer him; he kind of skirted the issue. It talked about four-year terms,

fixed terms, and we are into his fifth now. Not elected as Premier by the people

of Newfoundland and Labrador, only indirectly from a campaign for leadership of

the party. By the way, in our electoral reform we are looking at the lobbying

and restrictions on amounts of money that can be spent by leadership contenders

for any party in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: The new Minister of Education over there, Madam Chair, is

trying to interject here and make comments - something that is so irrelevant it

is hardly worth commenting on it, so I will not comment on it.

As I said, Madam Chair, they are trying to run a campaign of fear in the

Province of Newfoundland and Labrador; trying to run a campaign of fear.

Madam Chair, I do not like bringing up the names of private individuals in

the House of Assembly, but -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Probably I shouldn't, and maybe I won't, but when we

have people out there misrepresenting the facts in the media - it is something

that is hard not to. When we know what we say here, and the people know, but we

have again fallen right in line with the ideas and the things that are trying to

be put forward by the Opposition.

AN HON. MEMBER: Admit it.

MR. J. BYRNE: What?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Yes, right, admit to it.

In the meantime, maybe certain people are trying to consider running for the

Opposition. Maybe that is going to be a factor. It could very well be. I do not

know, Madam Chair.

Madam Chair, they are trying out figures about the potentials if we get

elected. How many people are going to be affected and these types of things. It

is from people on that side of the House, people working within departments that

are there now - ministers there now. That is where the figures are coming from.

It is not coming from here. We never stated anything of such nature at all; not

at all. Again, they will get up on their feet over there and they will

misrepresent it, twist it, or whatever the case may be. I suppose they are

looking to bring themselves up in the polls and they really do not have much

else going for them at this point in time, I don't think.

With respect to the Budget and looking for $1.349 billion - I believe it was.

In the Throne Speech, they talked about annual reports from the departments.

Again, that is good stuff, and so it should be. We talked about it in the past,

and our leader -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Again, it is another take from us, I say to the new

Minister of Labour, the former Minister of Works, Services and Transportation.

It is just another takeoff on what we have been promoting. That is all it is.

The Leader of the Opposition yesterday said in his response to the Speech from

the Throne that we would want to put a plan in place for each department and it

would be accountable at the end of each year. It would be accountable to the

plan and how it was put in place, acted upon, and to see if the conditions were

met, and whatever the case may be.

They also talked about transportation. Now, Madam Chair, we, on this side of

the House of Assembly, for years have talked about transportation here. I have

asked questions many times to the Minister of Works, Services and

Transportation. I think the current Minister of Works, Services and

Transportation, the Member for Conception Bay East & Bell Island, was

expecting a question today, but everything in due course I say to the new

Minister of Works, Services and Transportation. Again, I find it more than

passing strange, being there for fourteen years -

MADAM CHAIR: Order, please!

I remind the hon. member that his time is up.

MR. J. BYRNE: By leave.

MADAM CHAIR: Does the hon. member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: No leave.

MADAM CHAIR: No leave.

MR. J. BYRNE: There are many, many more points to be made.

MADAM CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Finance.

MS J.M. AYLWARD: Thank you, Madam Chair.

I will take the opportunity because I know that we are discussing Interim

Supply, but since the Member for Cape St. Francis went off to the Throne Speech

and editorials in the paper, I think it is only right that we enter into that

kind of a debate and discussion. I am only too happy to do it. I did the

introduction trying to stick very closely, sticking with the issue of relevance,

but I realize at times that is very difficult to do that in this House of

Assembly. So it begs a response, and I know many of my colleagues are anxious to

respond.

I know the Member of Cape St. Francis started off talking in some riddles

about something not warranting a response. I think it was the new Minister of

Education who said that $40 million is a lot of money when jobs leave this

Province. He was talking about the newly inked contract, which was sold and jobs

were moved out of the Province by the now Leader of the Opposition, who was in

private business at the time; $60 million. So, $60 million might not mean much

on that side of the House, but I guarantee you, it does mean a lot on this side

of the House and to the people of the Province. That is a fact. Everybody in the

Province knows that.

The Member for Cape St. Francis was talking about an editorial. Now, I do not

know if he was talking about the editorial from the West Coast, where it talked

about what the Tories would do if they got in. It said, and I quote, Ottenheimer

said: That can be achieved if government trims the fat from the bureaucracy,

from the bureaucratic bodies it operates.

I was not at the presentation, but I know the Leader of the Opposition was

there to hear what was being said and to trial test this new balloon on the cuts

and how they are going to actually run the government. They say they do not know

what the current state of the books are, but like everybody else in the

Province, they have access to the public accounts. They certainly have an

opinion on everything, whether or not they believe it or not, but it is there

for all to see. I think what our record has shown is that we, the Liberals,

support the people of the Province, the programs, the services, and we have

grown them.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS J.M. AYLWARD: That is our mandate. That has been our philosophy. I

think the people of the Province, hopefully, will never get to see the other

side of a real Tory administration, because this very editorial compared what is

in the works over there to Mike Harris' government, a government which was

called a commonsense revolution, and put people on the streets. People who were

in social housing on the streets. Anybody going to Toronto can see people living

on the air vents from the underground. That is what the commonsense revolution

did and that is what that presentation was compared to. I never heard it, I am

just reading what was in the media. I have as much respect for the media as

members opposite have, I am sure, because I think, clearly, that the fear out

there is not fear generated by people here, it is fear of the unknown. People do

not know what to expect. I know the advisers are saying: Say nothing. Saw wood;

because then there is nothing to measure it against. I think people of the

Province are getting very interested and very concerned about what would

actually happen.

What do they stand for? We know what we stand for. You might not agree with

it but at least you know. You may not like the fact that we decided not to cut

health care, not to cut programs and services, but that is what we stand for. We

believe in growing our economy. What happens if you balance the books? What

happens if you eliminate programs? Who do you lose? You lose the very people,

Madam Chair, that you are trying to recruit to this Province. You lose your

young people. We all know the way the system works. Senior people stay in the

service. Junior people leave. We all know from our pre-budget consultations that

it is the young people who will leave if they do not get work. We work very hard

to grow our workforce, to try to match our skill sets with skill requirements.

We have a booming industry. We know what is happening right now on Voisey's

Bay. It is exciting. It is exciting to our industry. It is exciting to the

potential for our young people.

It was interesting in the Throne Speech yesterday - the Throne Speech by the

Lieutenant-Governor, not the Throne Speech by the Leader of the Opposition, as

he called it. We talked about the people who came back to our Province. We

talked about the people, the skill sets that have come back because they have

seen the potential. They talk about the people who have left. People have left,

but people have come back too. You have to build on what you have.

It is easy, it is very easy today. You could say: yes, we do not need Interim

Supply for $1.3 billion. No, Madam Chair, it is not routine. That kind of money

is not routine; not routine to us over here. We do not have that kind of money,

but we do have the money that we are responsible for on behalf of the people of

the Province and we take it very seriously. We also stand by, not our view, but

on the very fact that Newfoundland and Labrador has the lowest student tuition

in the country; not in Atlantic Canada, in the country.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS J.M. AYLWARD: Now, what have you done in fourteen years? That is a

part of what we have done. We are quite proud of the fact that we have reduced

it by 25 per cent, and that is a commitment that anyone is proud of. I am not

talking today about people leaving. I know there are young people who are

currently in St. Mary's in Halifax, who are out in Alberta going to

university, who are coming home because our tuition is cheaper, and that is a

fact.

I also know that they talked about negotiations and what is happening with

Ottawa. We all heard this morning that Minister Anderson came on Open Line and

said that the Gander decision would not be reversed, and it is disappointing. He

has yet to have the kind of proposal that the Member for Gander, the Premier and

others talked to him about. He does not even have it to factor it into his

decision-making, but we are counting on our federal Minister, Gerry Byrne, to

intervene on behalf of all Newfoundlanders and Labradorians and to urge the

minister to reconsider based on the facts and the information on behalf of us,

as our representative in Ottawa, and we believe that is a very important part.

I say to the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's, we are not going behind

his back. This is based, as you just said - what we are doing today is, we are

doing our job. We are representing the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. We

are representing the people of Gander. We represent those people because they

have a legitimate concern. Do we have a say in if the Gander office is going to

be opened or closed as a provincial government? Do we have a say? Well, perhaps

we should, but unfortunately we do not. Do we have a say in the equalization

program? No, unfortunately we do not. It is an unilateral program. It is part of

the Constitution of Canada, and the federal government can add to it, delete

from it, change it, whatever they want to do, by the mere stroke of a pen. It is

unilateral. Can we make our case? Yes, we can. It was very reassuring, during

our pre-budget consultations, to hear the kind of support we have in this

Province for changes to the equalization program. People are very well versed on

the issues and very supportive of it.

I think there are things out there, clearly through the Throne Speech and

through our record, that we stand for. What about our social programs? Always a

fear when you look at what Mike Harris did, and a bigger fear for the people of

the Province when