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September 25, 2001

37th Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2001-Sep-25 (PDF)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L'ONTARIO

Tuesday 25 September 2001 Mardi 25 septembre 2001

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

HOME CARE

ROYAL CANADIAN LEGION

ERNIE COOMBS

HAMILTON TEMPLE

VIOLENCE PREVENTION WEEK

HATE CRIMES

ATTACK ON THE UNITED STATES

SERVICES FOR THE

HEARING-IMPAIRED

ONTARIO AGRICULTURE WEEK

LEGISLATIVE INTERNS

LEGISLATIVE PAGES

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE

ON PUBLIC ACCOUNTS

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

PUPPY MILL BAN AND ANIMAL

CRUELTY PREVENTION ACT, 2001 /

LOI DE 2001 SUR L'INTERDICTION

DES USINES À CHIOTS

ET LA PROTECTION DES ANIMAUX

MOTIONS

COMMITTEE MEMBERSHIP

PRIVATE MEMBERS' PUBLIC BUSINESS

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

GOVERNMENT'S AGENDA

ORAL QUESTIONS

ONTARIO ECONOMY

IPPERWASH PROVINCIAL PARK

COMPETITIVE ELECTRICITY MARKET

IPPERWASH PROVINCIAL PARK

EMERGENCY MEASURES

ATTACK ON THE UNITED STATES

RENT REGULATION

ELECTION IN

VAUGHAN-KING-AURORA

BORDER SECURITY

HOME CARE

IMMIGRANT AND REFUGEE SERVICES

NORTHERN TRANSPORTATION

PETITIONS

SOCIAL SERVICES

OHIP SERVICES

LORD'S PRAYER

NURSES

PERSONAL NEEDS ALLOWANCE

LORD'S PRAYER

HOME CARE

OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH AND SAFETY

LORD'S PRAYER

HOME CARE

OHIP SERVICES

ORDERS OF THE DAY

RESCUING CHILDREN FROM

SEXUAL EXPLOITATION ACT, 2001 /

LOI DE 2001

SUR LA DÉLIVRANCE DES ENFANTS

DE L'EXPLOITATION SEXUELLE

Tuesday 25 September 2001 Mardi 25 septembre 2001

The House met at 1330.

Prayers.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

HOME CARE

Mr Richard Patten (Ottawa Centre): I'd like to address the funding freeze to the community care access centre that this government announced

last spring. The freeze amounts to a significant budget cut when you allow for the very large increase this past year in people who require some sort of home care. The effect has, in

summary, been

devastating. Patients who were saving the system vast amounts of money by living and caring for themselves at home, as opposed to being in the hospital, are being rewarded for their diligence and

bravery by having the province cut back on their already meagre services.

I hold in my hand a dozen heartbreaking stories sent to me by constituents. These are not form letters. Many of them are handwritten, some a little shaky, but

sent with great care. They are heartfelt pleas from people doing their very best in often troubled circumstances just to get by.

One letter is from a woman in her late 60s who is the sole caretaker for her 93-year-old mother. The woman has some health problems. She has heart disease;

osteoarthritis in her knee, hip and back, and can only walk with the help of a cane; fibromyalgia; and kidney and bladder problems. She is the sole caregiver of her 93-year-old mother, who has

broken both hips and suffers from depression and mild dementia. What's her reward for this? The CCAC has had to cut her weekly hours by a third.

This is just one story among thousands across this province. I call upon the government to restore its commitment to those who are eagerly struggling, day in and

day out, and to those who are sick but still fighting to care for themselves or their loved ones.

ROYAL CANADIAN LEGION

Mr Doug Galt (Northumberland): I rise in the House today to recognize Legion Week, which ran from September 16 to 22. The Royal Canadian Legion

has long been a pillar of the community in Ontario. Through the sponsorship of youth programs, sporting events and seniors programs they have promoted community involvement through individual and

group effort. Legion volunteers have given numerous hours so that others can enjoy these special activities.

What's more, the sacrifices made by our war veterans are a big part of what makes Ontario strong. In fact, Veterans Affairs Canada shows that Ontario is home to

145 World War I veterans, 124,944 World War II veterans and 5,205 Korean War veterans. Many of these veterans are still very active in the Legion today.

Last Sunday I had the opportunity to attend the kickoff of Legion Week in Quinte West, where I helped lay a wreath commemorating the air battle of World War II.

To meet personally with those veterans was indeed a touching experience.

The recent events in New York City have shown that the price of democracy is eternal vigilance. May those terrible occurrences act as a reminder of what our

veterans endured to give us the peace and prosperity that we often take for granted today.

ERNIE COOMBS

Mrs Leona Dombrowsky (Hastings-Frontenac-Lennox and Addington): Today it is an honour for me to pay tribute to someone who made children dream.

He has been described as a national treasure. For 31 years, in more than 4,000 televisions shows, Ernie Coombs, better known as Mr Dressup, entertained countless fans of all ages.

He received numerous Gemini Awards for best children's programming, the first Children's Choice Award by the Association for Children and Television in 1994, and

also the Earl Grey Award for excellence in TV from the Academy of Canadian Cinema and Television.

In 1996 he was named to the Order of Canada by Prime Minister Jean Chrétien, who called him an "icon, to be remembered for generations to come." His friend

and colleague Fred Rogers, who hosted Mr Rogers' Neighborhood, said, "On and off the air, he was such a wonderfully artistic, whimsical man who never lost touch with the child within him." Children

were always eager and delighted to see what Mr Dressup would pull out of his Tickle Trunk.

Mr Coombs was a gentle-natured entertainer who displayed creativity, playfulness and kindness. Ernie was reported to have thought he was a better person for

being Mr Dressup, and I would suggest that we are all better people as a result of his gift.

On Tuesday, September 18, Ernie died, predeceased by his wife. He is survived by his children Catherine, Chris and Barry. We offer them our prayers and

condolences.

HAMILTON TEMPLE

Mr David Christopherson (Hamilton West): Yesterday, during our comments on the September 11 disaster, I mentioned the fact that the face of

hatred had visited our city a few days afterwards with the burning of a Hindu temple, and I said that was not Hamilton and I talked about a meeting we had at city hall. My colleagues Dominic

Agostino and Brad Clark were there, along with many other leaders in the community and religious leaders from across all the major faiths in our community.

I want to give a further update to this House as to how my community of Hamilton is responding. First of all, the people who attend the Hindu temple have

received more than 20 offers of locations where they can hold their services. In fact, this Sunday they're holding their services at Barton Stone United Church. Just yesterday another offer was

made to use the old York theatre on Concession Street at Upper Wentworth, which was recently renovated to the tune of $1 million, and that's been made available to the members of that temple. Also,

and I'm very proud to say this, the Hamilton building trades unions have stepped forward and offered their expertise to rebuild that temple, and if the funds aren't there, they are prepared to do

it for nothing. That is the face of Hamilton and the face of Hamiltonians.

VIOLENCE PREVENTION WEEK

Mrs Julia Munro (York North): I rise today to acknowledge Violence Prevention Week, led by the Ontario Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to

Animals. I joined the Solicitor General yesterday to help launch this week designed to raise awareness on the demonstrated link between the abuse of animals and violence toward people. The Ontario

SPCA leads the way on this important link. With financial support from our government, through the office of the Solicitor General, the SPCA has been able to implement a groundbreaking

animal-assisted therapy project matching hard-to-adopt shelter dogs with young offenders in an intensive 13-week program.

We all know about the recent successful raid on puppy mills. Our government was quick to respond with $50,000 by the Solicitor General to help with the burden of

over 200 rescued animals. This money will also help with the creation of a special operations unit dedicated to seeking out and shutting down puppy mills. My congratulations to Victoria Earle, the

CEO, the members of the board, staff and the many volunteers who work so hard to make sure that the goals of violence prevention are met this week and year-round.

HATE CRIMES

Mr Dominic Agostino (Hamilton East): I rise today along with, I'm sure, every single member of the Legislature to condemn the racist and

hate-motivated attacks that have occurred in our community of Hamilton in the last two weeks. As you know, a Hindu temple was burned down and a Hamilton mosque was vandalized. This is not

reflective of Hamiltonians; it is reflective only of a small group of renegades who are motivated by race and hate and nothing else. We stand today united with our friends in the religious

communities in Hamilton in fighting this action.

Premier Harris, on September 18, announced a $3-million fund to help the victims of the terrorist attacks in the United States. It was the right decision, the

right thing to do. I ask today that the Premier of Ontario offer financial assistance to the city of Hamilton, to the religious mosques in Hamilton, to the Hindu temples, to the places of worship

that are under attack, in regard to the extra security they have to put into place to deal with that, in regard to the extra police resources that are necessary, in regard to the extra work that is

happening.

I believe that we need the assistance. I ask the Premier in the same spirit of co-operation in which we have worked in this House yesterday -- and we all stand

together on this issue -- to reach out and offer whatever assistance can be given to the city of Hamilton, to the organizations of Hamilton that are fighting this, so that together we can send out

a very clear message that we stand united against racist hate that is going on, and we stand together for all Ontarians as one.

Mr Premier, I ask you for that help; I hope you give it to us.

ATTACK ON THE UNITED STATES

Mr Raminder Gill (Bramalea-Gore-Malton-Springdale): As Ontarians stand together with our neighbours and friends in the United States, we are

concerned about the failure of our Prime Minister to do the right thing and visit ground zero in New York. The response from Premier Harris and ordinary Ontarians far outshines our Prime Minister's

lacklustre performance.

Today I would like to single out four Brampton firefighters -- Rob Morrison, Brian Gorman, Scott Walker and Neil Kennedy -- who jumped into Mr Kennedy's car at

8:30 pm on Tuesday, September 11, and headed to New York City. These Brampton firefighters did not wait to be asked for help; they did what they thought was right. The 43-year-old Kennedy, a

14-year veteran, said, "Our first priority was to try to locate local firefighters and get them out."

These men knew that those who lost their lives were not only employees working at the World Trade Center, but many were everyday heroes; they were firemen,

police officers and the civilians who took extraordinary risks to save others.

These men are heroes who followed their hearts, trusted their judgment and did what was right without waiting for an invitation.

I am pleased to say the residents of Bramalea-Gore-Malton-Springdale, like our firemen, proudly stand with our Premier Mike Harris, President Bush and all the

everyday heroes in Ontario, ready, willing and committed to doing our duty in this struggle against terrorism, domestic or international.

On behalf of all Ontarians, I would like to thank our four Brampton firemen for doing our city, province and country proud.

SERVICES FOR THE

HEARING-IMPAIRED

Mr Ernie Parsons (Prince Edward-Hastings): I would like to thank the Minister of the Environment and the Minister of Health for the telephone

service that they provide to those who are hearing-impaired; to the other 22 ministers: shame on you, absolute shame on you. As you move to your centralized control, you've established toll-free

telephone numbers for any citizen in Ontario to contact your central office -- as long as they can speak. But every other TTY line is a payable line. You have 1-800 numbers only for those with

voices.

The Minister of Citizenship is responsible for developing an ODA act, a work in progress for quite some years now. A general inquiry if anyone wished to phone:

1-800; the TTY line: 1-416.

The Minister of Community and Social Services, who is responsible for the payment to those who have the disability, pays Andersen Consulting thousands of dollars

a day. They can call free. Someone who is a recipient under the ODSP and receives approximately $11,000 a year maximum must dial a 1-416 number and pay to find out why their meagre cheque has not

been sent or what is going on with their case.

Ministers and Premier, I call upon you to act immediately. Get rid of the two-tier system and give the hearing-impaired full access to the government services

they pay for.

ONTARIO AGRICULTURE WEEK

Mr Bert Johnson (Perth-Middlesex): I rise in the Legislature today to remind members that next week is Ontario Agriculture Week. To mark this

occasion, I'm sponsoring a kickoff breakfast on Monday, October 1, in the legislative dining room beginning at 8 am. I hope that all my colleagues from both sides of the Legislature will join me

and our agriculture minister, as representatives from all the commodity groups will be there as well.

I also want to inform members of another event taking place next week in Toronto at Nathan Phillips Square on Wednesday, October 3, 2001. This event is being

organized by the Ontario Federation of Agriculture. This will be of particular interest to the member from Windsor.

For my constituents, I would like to invite them to drop by my constituency office on Friday, October 5, between 2 and 4 pm, for an open house to help celebrate

the billion-dollar agri-food industry in Perth-Middlesex.

I introduced the Ontario Agriculture Week Act in 1998 to provide an opportunity for everyone in our province to celebrate the contributions of Ontario's

agricultural communities and farm families. Individuals and organizations can help salute our agri-food industry in their own way in their own community by sponsoring local appreciation dinners,

encouraging restaurants to feature Ontario-grown food, or organizing a farm tour. These types of activities will help remind Ontarians of the unique role played by those who help bring food from

the farm gate to their dinner plate.

During Ontario Agriculture Week, show your support for our farmers. Invite Ontario home for dinner.

LEGISLATIVE INTERNS

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Just before we begin, in the Speaker's gallery we have some honoured guests. We have with us the legislative

interns for 2001-02.

We have Lyndsey Saunders, Samantha Majic, Sara Lyons, Peter Hargreave, Nathan Fisher, Karim El-Bardeesy, Maria DiFabrizio and James Cairns.

Please join me in welcoming our special guests.

LEGISLATIVE PAGES

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): I would also ask all the members to join in welcoming the legislative pages serving in the second session of the

37th Parliament. With us we have Meg Allenby from Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant; Thomas Fabian from Don Valley West; Paul Gosset from Eglinton-Lawrence; Anthony Harrison from Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke;

Christopher Henry from Toronto Centre-Rosedale; Andrea Holmes from Pickering-Ajax-Uxbridge; Jonathan Hwang from Halton; Gregory Keefe from Mississauga East; Ellen Leitch from London North Centre;

Rachel Marsh-Petronis from York Centre; Emma McGuire from Kingston and the Islands; Kathryn Miskell from Kitchener-Waterloo; Owen Moffitt from Scarborough Centre; Ian Morrison from

Haliburton-Victoria-Brock; Andrew Reszitnyk from Burlington; Caitlin Taguibao from Scarborough Southwest; Cynthia Tran from Essex; Ana Vadeanu from St Paul's; Katherine Walkiewicz from Simcoe-Grey;

and Simon Yam from Trinity-Spadina.

Please join me in welcoming our new pages.

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE

ON PUBLIC ACCOUNTS

Mr John Gerretsen (Kingston and the Islands): I beg leave to present a report on institutional services and young offenders operations from the

standing committee on public accounts and move the adoption of its recommendations.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Does the member wish to make a brief statement?

Mr Gerretsen: A very brief one, Speaker. There are 13 recommendations contained in the report. Just to highlight a few of them, the first one

states that the Ministry of Correctional Services should conduct an evaluation of its modernization initiative under the adult infrastructure renewal project at the completion of the first year of

operations. One of the other recommendations is that it should monitor external contracts to ensure compliance with the terms of the agreement, thereby avoiding problems such as overpayments on

invoices and alterations to the original terms of the contract without the necessary approvals. We hope the ministry will take these into consideration and that they will follow the 13

recommendations contained in the report.

With that, I move adjournment of the debate.

The Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Mr Gerretsen: I have another one, Speaker. We were a very, very busy committee this summer.

I beg leave to present a report on emergency health services from the standing committee on public accounts and move the adoption of its recommendations.

The Speaker: Does the member wish to make a brief statement?

Mr Gerretsen: Yes, Speaker. Again, in this report there are 14 recommendations which we hope the ministry will not only take into consideration

but will implement.

Two of the main highlights of the report are that the ministry's assessment of the realignment of land ambulance services should include such matters as the

maintenance of standards, the financial impact for municipalities and the province, and the determination whether this initiative is providing seamless, accessible, accountable, integrated and

responsive services; and furthermore, that the ministry should complete a report on emergency room activity which would include but is not limited to the following: a review of the patient priority

system at the end of the initial year of the operation to determine whether the problems experienced under the redirection consideration and critical care bypass model have been resolved.

Again, it is the committee's hope and wish that all of these recommendations will be followed.

With that, I move adjournment of the debate.

The Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

PUPPY MILL BAN AND ANIMAL

CRUELTY PREVENTION ACT, 2001 /

LOI DE 2001 SUR L'INTERDICTION

DES USINES À CHIOTS

ET LA PROTECTION DES ANIMAUX

Mr Colle moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 100,

An Act to ban puppy mills and other cruel animal-breeding activities and to protect animals bred for commercial sale from abuse by amending the

Ontario Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act / Projet de loi 100, Loi visant à interdire les usines à chiots et autres activités relatives à l'élevage qui

sont cruelles et à protéger des mauvais traitements les animaux élevés à des fins commerciales en modifiant la

Loi sur la Société de protection des animaux de

l'Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

The member for a short statement.

Mr Mike Colle (Eglinton-Lawrence): This bill would require the licensing of all pet breeders and kennels in Ontario; allow full inspections of

breeders and kennels who operate in Ontario; make it a provincial offence to operate a puppy mill, with fines up to $50,000 and/or two years in jail; allow for the imposition of a lifetime ban on

individuals found operating puppy mills; impose fines on pet store owners who knowingly and willingly buy or sell pets from pet mills; and establish a publicly accessible provincial registry of pet

breeders and kennels for the public to access.

MOTIONS

COMMITTEE MEMBERSHIP

Hon Janet Ecker (Minister of Education, Government House Leader): I move that the following amendments be made to the membership of certain

committees:

Mr Colle replaces Mrs Bountrogianni on the standing committee on general government; Mr Crozier replaces Mr Cleary on the standing committee on public

accounts; Mr Gravelle replaces Mr Crozier on the standing committee on government agencies; Mrs Munro replaces Mr Stewart on the standing committee on the Legislative Assembly; and Mr Marchese

replaces Ms Lankin on the standing committee on regulations and private bills.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

PRIVATE MEMBERS' PUBLIC BUSINESS

Hon Janet Ecker (Minister of Education, Government House Leader): I seek unanimous consent to put forward a motion without notice regarding

private members' public business.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Is there unanimous consent? Agreed.

Hon Mrs Ecker: I move that, notwithstanding standing order 96(g), the requirement for notice be waived with respect to ballot items 19, 20, 21

and 22.

The Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

GOVERNMENT'S AGENDA

Hon Michael D. Harris (Premier): When we formed the government, we had a bold vision for the people of Ontario. We believed that Ontario was

indeed a great province, but it was a great province that could offer its citizens a great deal more. We knew that a strong economy was the key to improving people's lives. We knew that Ontario

families should be able to do more than just pay the bills. They should be able to save for the things that matter to them, like a family vacation, or new hockey equipment for their kids. We knew

that a strong economy means that our government will have the resources we need to invest in priorities like health care and education.

As we begin this fall sitting of the House, we remain more committed than ever to our vision of a province that offers all citizens good jobs, prosperity and

the promise of a better life; quality health care close to home; an education system that teaches children reading, writing and math; a clean environment; and communities where people feel safe in

their homes and on the streets.

One of the challenges facing all countries is the changing global competitive economy. The events of the past two weeks have indeed been traumatic and they

have affected many areas of our lives, including the economy. But we believe these effects will be short-lived. Just as Mayor Giuliani said of New York, we believe that Ontario will be even

stronger in the future.

Here in Ontario our economy is stronger than many others. But despite the jobs we have helped create and the lives we have helped turn around, we must do more

to protect jobs and the financial security of our hard-working Ontario families.

This fall we will begin phasing in literacy testing for welfare recipients. Tests will identify those who need extra help so they can get the skills required

to get a job and to get their lives back on track.

Ontario's entrepreneurs and small business owners are an important part of our competitive edge. During Small Business Month we will recognize the important

role they play in our economy.

In October we'll launch a new task force on competitiveness, productivity and economic progress. Headed by Roger Martin, one of Canada's leading experts in the

field, it will monitor Ontario's competitiveness compared to other provinces and to the United States. By moving ahead with the task force recommendations, our government will help protect existing

jobs, create new jobs and build a stronger province.

As we open the fall sitting of the 37th Parliament, we're reminded of the recent start of the school year. As parents we expect big things from our education

system. We expect that when they graduate, our children will have the skills they need to succeed, not just in a job but in life.

Ontario's teachers are professionals, and we believe that, just like lawyers and dentists, they should continue to develop their professional skills. On June

29 the Stability and Excellence in Education Act became law, allowing us to phase in teacher testing. This legislation provides existing teachers with the opportunity to update their skills through

ongoing skills enhancement, training and mandatory recertification.

Later this fall our government will introduce legislation to move forward with our teacher testing plan. If passed, our legislation would introduce a

qualifying test for new teachers that would help them with the province's curriculum and ensure that their knowledge and their skills are sound before they start teaching. It would also create

clear performance appraisal standards for all our teachers. Every parent knows that one great teacher can make a big difference in a child's life. That's why this government will encourage

excellence in every teacher in the province.

A strong economy will help ensure we have the resources needed to continue improving Ontario's education system. But it will take more than money. It will take

excellent teachers, committed students and new approaches. We believe that parents can help us meet those goals. That's why we have promised to consult them on the future of our education system.

Starting in November, we will send out our first-ever parent satisfaction survey. We are proud to be the first government in Ontario to reach out to every parent, every student, every teacher and

taxpayer and ask, "What can we do to make our education system better?"

We also have a responsibility to protect our children, to keep them safe from abuse, including in our schools. Ontario has many excellent teachers who are

devoted to their students and who hold themselves to the highest ethical standards. Unfortunately, there have been a few cases where teachers have abused their position of trust, and all parents

agree that even one case is one too many.

In 1999 we asked the Honourable Sydney Robins to make recommendations to prevent sexual abuse in our schools. We have already addressed many of his

recommendations. Later this week we will introduce legislation to help protect students from sexual abuse by teachers. If passed, this legislation would help eliminate loopholes that allow these

criminals to hide their actions and to escape punishment. It would establish tough new reporting requirements. It would streamline the steps teachers must take to report suspected abuse. Our

children deserve to be safe. This government will do everything it can to protect them.

All of our citizens deserve to live in safety. This fall we will introduce legislation that, if passed, would help our police to do an even better job of

protecting Ontario communities by cracking down on biker gangs and others who use fortified buildings for criminal purposes.

On September 11, the world watched in horror as tragedy unfolded in Pennsylvania, Washington and New York. In the wake of those events we will review ways to

help the OPP fight terrorism more effectively and determine what additional resources may be required to keep Ontario safe. As a first step, I have directed an ongoing review of Ontario's emergency

measures capacity. We will do everything we can to protect Ontario's citizens, and we will co-operate with other jurisdictions and countries to safeguard their citizens and the citizens of the

world.

We want Ontario to be a province where all citizens are offered opportunities and can participate freely in society. We must build on what has already been

done and continue taking steps toward our goal of making Ontario as barrier-free as possible. This fall we will introduce legislation that would continue to tear down the barriers faced by those

with disabilities in our province.

Ensuring that our citizens continue to enjoy a high quality of life means tackling the complex and complicated issues of the day. We must do a better job of

reducing gridlock in our cities and between our regions. We need to do more to ensure that highways and transit are meeting the needs of our rapidly growing communities. We need to do more to

ensure that Ontario's tremendous economic potential is not compromised by clogged highways and crowded transit. That's why, this fall, we will move forward with initiatives to address these issues.

Part of that will be achieved through our Smart Growth vision. We have completed consultations in 17 communities across Ontario and a full report is expected shortly.

Following the consultation process on the Oak Ridges moraine, we will introduce new legislation to help protect this important area this fall. If passed, this

legislation would balance the need to protect certain sensitive areas while allowing responsible development in others.

Also this fall, we hope to pass the Nutrient Management Act, the next step in our clean water strategy. We're creating consistent, clear standards governing

the way materials containing nutrients are applied on Ontario's farms. Many farmers are already meeting these expectations, but this legislation would ensure that all farmers follow high

standards.

We're working hard to ensure our health care system stays strong and viable today and in the years to come. It's an enormous challenge, one requiring the

resources that a strong economy will provide, and one requiring adequate support as well from the federal government. Our strong economy has allowed us to invest record amounts in health care. We

will spend close to $24 billion this year alone. But at the moment, Ottawa contributes only 14 cents of every dollar that provincial and territorial governments spend on health care in this

country. Ottawa must pay its fair share of health care costs.

That's the message that I took with me this summer when I met one on one with many Premiers before the annual Premiers' conference in Victoria. I'm proud to

say that at the conference we unanimously called on the federal government to restore health care funding to where it was before Ottawa started its cuts. We were united in asking the federal

government to fund at least the 18% share of health care that they funded before this Liberal government came to office in Ottawa. As well, we asked the federal government to have an appropriate

escalator to deal with new costs so that Canadians can enjoy the benefits of new technologies, new research, new therapies and an improved quality of life so that each year in the future the

federal government doesn't fall further and further and further behind.

This summer, we launched our own province-wide dialogue on health care. We're asking the general public and health care professionals to work with us to help

identify the best ways to spend health care dollars and sustain our system over the long term. I encourage everyone to participate, because we want to hear from every doctor, from every nurse, from

every caregiver and from every patient.

Two weeks ago, we took another step toward our commitment to create 20,000 new long-term-care beds in this province. Our $1.2-billion investment is

unprecedented, and it signals our commitment to ensuring Ontario's health care system is prepared to meet the needs of our aging population. In Windsor, in Waterloo, in Alliston, in Ajax, all

across Ontario, we opened and broke ground for 1,500 new and redeveloped long-term-care beds. Through a strong economy, this government will open thousands more.

We remain committed to ensuring families can get the professional health advice they need, when they need it. In the next few months, our Telehealth service

will be available 24 hours a day, seven days a week, all across the province. We will continue to encourage doctors and specialists to join family health networks, and this fall we'll also

introduce privacy legislation designed to protect personal information, including health information. We're committed to developing privacy rules that ensure consumer and patient information

remains private and remains confidential.

As I look back, I can see how much has been accomplished. Ontario has come a long way in a few short years. But as I look ahead, I can see there is still a

long way to go. In today's competitive, constantly changing global economy, we cannot afford to be content with past accomplishments, as great as those accomplishments are. So the hard work will

continue this fall. We'll provide the strong leadership to continue moving forward with our 21-step action plan, a plan introduced in the throne speech last spring, which lays out our priorities

for this session of Parliament. We'll address any new challenges that come our way. We'll be guided by our bold vision of a strong and prosperous province, where hard-working people can make their

dreams and their children's dreams come true. We will continue striving to improve the lives of people in every corner of Ontario, striving to make our great province even stronger, more prosperous

and more generous toward those who need our help, and striving to create a future that we will be proud to see our children inherit.

Mr Dalton McGuinty (Leader of the Opposition): These are challenging times, and we're going to have to meet those challenges head-on.

Tragically, one of the greatest challenges became clear on September 11, and we're going to have to act to support our American friends and neighbours. But we must also act to secure the physical

safety of Ontarians, and we are committed to working together on this particular crucial issue.

I propose an all-party committee of the Legislature to assess our security here at home, and I await the government's response.

We also face a new economic challenge. Our economy was already slowing before September 11, and now the uncertainty is even greater. Working families want to

keep working. They are concerned about layoffs. Families who have worked hard to save for the future are seeing their savings slip away. This Legislature is going to have to do everything within

its power to secure Ontario's economic future. I can tell you on this particular front, simplistic slogans will no longer cut it, not when the problems are this complicated.

We all want a secure border, but what, for example, might increased security mean to our auto sector and its reliance on just-in-time delivery? What will the

impact be on our export-driven economy? No jurisdiction on the face of the earth is more export-dependent than we are here in Ontario. We need a comprehensive plan to secure our economic

future.

It seems to me that the first steps are clear: we need an updated economic and fiscal statement that spells out where we stand. I've had the opportunity to

meet with many representatives of business in recent days, weeks and months. They are telling me that the financial projections made at the beginning of this fiscal year are not at all in keeping

with reality, so they are busy scrambling to revisit their proposals, their economic projections, and drafting new plans. It is time for us in Ontario at the level of our government to do the same

kind of thing.

By the way, that new economic plan should feature bold new ideas instead of the same old ideology. While new challenges have come sharply into focus, other

challenges simply have not gone away. If anything, their importance has grown.

We on this side of the House will continue to fight for quality health care. The value of top medical care, the preciousness of life itself, these things have

never been more obvious.

We on this side of the House will continue to fight for improvements in public education. The importance of the public school classroom, especially given that

that is where tolerance is taught and job skills are gained, has never been clearer. We will campaign for our plan as well for smaller class sizes, for turnaround teams to help our struggling

schools and for choice, but choice within the public school system. I recommit my party to fighting with all our might this government's plan to take money out of public schools and invest that

money in private schools.

We also remain firmly committed to fighting for clean air and safe drinking water. The terrible events of September 11 will not erase from our memory our own

tragedy in Walkerton. In fact, these things steel our resolve to protect people from tragedy in all its forms.

Ontario families still seek security from physical danger, yes, from economic uncertainty, without a doubt, but they want security from illness and disease,

they want it from environmental threats and they want it from a short-sighted approach to education that limits their children's future. Those are the kinds of things from which they seek

protection, and they demand from this government that it provide some security to them.

I want to tell you we're back and we're on the job. Those things may have happened down south, and that is tragic, and we will do whatever we can to support

this government in lending a hand to the people of the United States of America. But at the same time, we won't abdicate our responsibilities to Ontario's working families.

Mr Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): I'm intrigued by what the Premier had to say about Ontario's economy. Instead of sending out another

task force, there are three or four things the Premier and his government could do today to deal with some of the issues in the economy. Number one is to raise the minimum wage, because in fact

your government has frozen the minimum wage, frozen the wages of the lowest-paid people in the province, for seven years.

The second thing you could do would be to follow the advice of the Consumer Federation of America. I'll send you over a copy of their report. The Consumer

Federation of America says very clearly that the privatization and deregulation of the electricity system makes no sense. It says very clearly that privatization and deregulation of the electricity

system drives up the price of electricity, as it has in California, New York, Massachusetts, Montana and Pennsylvania. They point out that 22 states in the United States have now decided they are

no longer interested in selling off their electricity system.

Premier, if you really wanted to do something about the economy, you would stop the stupid idea of selling off our electricity system, which everyone now knows

is going to result in much higher prices for consumers, much higher prices for Ontario industry, and is going to kill jobs in this province. You don't have to believe me. You can call Stelco, who

wrote you a letter telling you that your price increases so far this year, as you ramp up to selling off the electricity system, have already cost them $10 million. Or you can talk to Falconbridge,

which is already making plans to move jobs out of this province because they will not be able to afford the price of electricity once you've moved to an American system, which charges 50%, 60% and

in some cases 100% more for electricity.

Those are two things you could do right now to address some of the economic problems. Oh, by the way, there is Algoma. One of the lessons, I think, of the last

few weeks is that government has a role in people's lives, that government has a job to do. Right now your government has a job to do in Sault Ste Marie, unless you consider the loss of 70,000 jobs

in Ontario not to be an important issue.

I want to raise the issue of education. Just this week I was in a classroom where there were 29 grade 1 students, one teacher and no teacher's aide, no

assistance for the teacher whatsoever. If you would check, that's far beyond what you say the law allows. We have 37,000 children in this province who need access to special education and

chronically cannot get it under your government. We have classroom upon classroom without textbooks because the funding formula simply isn't adequate to provide for those textbooks.

Then there's the issue of teachers. While your government continues to attack teachers in Ontario, I simply want to point out to you that Ontario's teachers

are being recruited in England, Ireland, Scotland, Australia, New Zealand and virtually everywhere across the United States. They're happy to have our teachers, the very teachers in Ontario you

attack and attack again.

Then there's the issue of the disabled. How many times has this government said that it is going to address the issues of the disabled? Yet we have seen

nothing but failure. Meanwhile, I invite all members of the Conservative government to go out there and talk to someone who is trying to live on the Ontario disability support benefit, which your

government has now frozen for so many years. The cost of electricity has gone up by 20%, thanks to your government. The cost of natural gas has gone up. The cost of food has gone up. Thanks to your

government's killing of rent controls, rents just in this city alone have gone up by more than 20% in three years. Yet what does your government say? You freeze the benefit. The reality, Premier,

of people who are disabled in this province is that because your government doesn't believe they're important, many of them cannot pay the rent and put food on the table. That's what is happening

to disabled people around this province because of your government.

Finally, let me just say this: you talk about taking some steps in agriculture in terms of nutrient management. What it's all about is taking away the limited

power that municipalities have left and putting them all in the same situation as Walkerton. That's the reality of what you're doing.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Just before we begin question period, I'll remind all members, and for the benefit of the new member who I'm sure

wants to knows as well, the questions will be about one minute long. If we do that, every member gets more questions on. At about 50 seconds, the same as before, I will yell "Question" or "Answer,"

depending upon the circumstances, and they'll have about 10 seconds to wrap up. The table keeps track of the time, and if we do that I'd appreciate everybody's co-operation. Everybody can get on,

and of course what we have to do is enforce it equally because there are some who tend to go over a little bit and it's not fair to one side or the other. Actually, there are some on both sides who

tend to go over. So a quick reminder of our procedures, and if the members would adhere to that it would be much appreciated.

ORAL QUESTIONS

ONTARIO ECONOMY

Mr Dalton McGuinty (Leader of the Opposition): My questions today are for the Premier. We took a look at your budget, and it's based on the

assumption that we're going to have growth in 2001 of 2.2%. It's perfectly clear now to all those who paid attention to these matters that the economy is not doing nearly as well as you projected.

Economists are telling us that and businesses are telling us that. Working families who are experiencing the pain of job loss are telling us that as well. Then September 11 happened, and we are

just beginning to experience the effects of that shock through our economy.

My point is that things have changed. I would suggest to you that things have changed substantially since you prepared your budget. Businesses are scrambling

to review their economic growth projections and to revise and prepare new plans. My question to you, Premier, is this: in light of these dramatically changed circumstances, what specific measures

will you take to help our weakening economy and protect our working families?

Hon Michael D. Harris (Premier): I think the Minister of Finance can respond.

Hon Jim Flaherty (Deputy Premier, Minister of Finance): I thank the Leader of the Opposition for the question. Very difficult decisions were

made in 1995-96 and subsequently led by Premier Harris and his team to put the Ontario economy on a solid footing. Those were difficult decisions, tough decisions, but the result of those difficult

decisions taken over the course of six years is that we have a solid foundation in Ontario to resist an economic slowdown.

We also anticipated, of course, as part of prudent fiscal planning, that there would be some slowdown in the Ontario economy this year. Indeed, there is a

slowdown in the global economy. Those things were taken into consideration as part of responsible choices, prudent fiscal planning in drafting the budget of the province of Ontario this year. We

are on track in the budget of Ontario for the year 2001.

Mr McGuinty: Let me tell you, Minister, about some of the impact of your budget being on track to this point in time. This summer we lost a

net 17,000 jobs in Ontario. In Owen Sound, AFL closed its plant, putting 200 people out of work. In my community of Ottawa, we've lost 7,000 jobs. In Sudbury they've lost 400 jobs. In Windsor this

August, they saw more than 3,600 auto workers forced on to temporary layoff.

I'm telling you, Minister, business is revising its economic projections and preparing new plans, not only in light of the way the economy was slowing down

prior to September 11, but of course because of what happened on September 11.

I put forward a couple of suggestions here in this House to you yesterday. I'll put those to you again and I'd like you to respond to them.

I think we should have an economic and fiscal update and I think we should host an economic summit and call upon business and labour leaders so that we can get

an assessment from them as to their expectations and their very best advice in terms of how we should work together and address these matters. What do you think about those two specific, positive

proposals?

Hon Mr Flaherty: There is no question that the tragedies of September 11 are cause for concern in terms of the economic impact. Indeed, we are

monitoring the preliminary data very closely in that regard. That is uncharted territory, as I'm sure the Leader of the Opposition would recognize, and, yes, there are some significant short-term

economic impacts to the province of Ontario.

As I indicated to the member, we have planned for some economic slowdown in Ontario this year. Assuming the impacts of September 11 are relatively short-lived,

and there's reason to anticipate that they ought to be, then as I indicated to him, we are on track. But we must be prudent. We must be strict in our monitoring of the economic impacts.

In terms of stimuli, I regret again that the Leader of the Opposition disagrees with the federal Liberal Minister of Finance, who has made it clear that the

tax cuts that Ontario started in 1995, leading the nation, finally joined by the federal government last year in October, are the key stimuli to the Canadian and the Ontario economies.

Mr McGuinty: Minister, one of the things that you said in your budget document was that your budget was based on the assumption that the

economy is expected to gain strength later this year. You said that you expected stronger household spending and you expected specifically stronger US growth to boost demand for Ontario's exports.

In fact, we are witnessing the opposite, the beginning of a slowdown in the retail sector. Tourism has been hit hard. Everyone knows what's been happening when it comes to our airlines. We know

what's starting to happen now with respect to our auto sector.

Do you not think that it would be wise and prudent and responsible in the circumstances here, these new developments which are significant, do you not think it

would be appropriate, sooner rather than later, that you table in this House a new economic and fiscal update?

Hon Mr Flaherty: This from a Liberal opposition with their Liberal cousins in Ottawa, where there has not been a full budget in 18 months. If

they wait till next spring, it will have been two years since there has been a federal budget. Every municipality in the province of Ontario has a budget every year.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): The Minister of Finance take his seat. Order. I can't hear. Sorry, Minister of Finance.

Hon Mr Flaherty: In terms of prudent fiscal management, from 1985 to 1990, the Liberals raised sales taxes in Ontario from 7% to 8%. They

raised the fuel tax twice. They had record revenues but they increased the deficit year after year. They increased the public debt year after year. They spent at twice the rate of inflation. That's

what Liberals consider to be prudent fiscal management. That's what they left for the NDP in 1990. We don't need any lectures from the Liberals about how to manage an economy.

IPPERWASH PROVINCIAL PARK

Mr Dalton McGuinty (Leader of the Opposition): This question is for the Premier, on the very serious matter of Ipperwash, a matter where, for

the first time in over 100 years, a member of the First Nations was killed in a land claims dispute.

For six years now, you have claimed that you left this matter entirely in the hands of the OPP. For six years, you have ignored calls for a public inquiry into

this tragedy. But I suggest to you, Premier, that the truth will not be silenced. Today in the Legislature are Sam and Reg George, Dudley George's brothers. They're here to seek one thing and one

thing alone: they only want the truth. There's only one person in Ontario today, Premier, who can institute a process to get at the truth: that is you. Will you now agree to hold a public inquiry

into the Ipperwash matter?

Hon Michael D. Harris (Premier): In your

preamble, you allude to the fact that I have ignored the call for a public inquiry, and that is

certainly not true. I have heard the call for a public inquiry; I have indicated very clearly that the time for that consideration is when all matters dealing with this before the courts have been

dealt with. As you know, there is a matter that is still currently before the courts which does ask the very questions that seem to be the same questions that you and the George family and others

have asked to be asked. That process is underway and we have been very co-operative with that process.

Mr McGuinty: Premier, nobody believes that you have been co-operative when it comes to getting to the bottom of what happened at Ipperwash.

That simply stretches credibility.

I want to read to you from one of the documents submitted in the civil court case. It's the minute which quotes Deb Hutton, one of your closest advisers. She

says, "Premier feels the longer they occupy it, the more support they'll get. He wants them out in a day or two." Another quotes one of your staff saying the following: "Premier's office doesn't

want to be seen working with Indians at all." Another note states, "Deb, has MNR asked OPP to remove them? They could be formally requested to do so, but how and when they do it is up to the

Premier."

Premier, how can you continue to maintain that you did not in any way influence police action in the Ipperwash matter?

Hon Mr Harris: I know you enjoy quoting little dribs and drabs from documents that are a matter of the court case. The heart of the court case

as I understand it is, was there any direction given to the OPP? The same court case has documents very clearly and the evidence is there -- including the former commissioner, the incident

commander at Ipperwash -- that there was no interference into the police action. These are sworn affidavits that are also a part of this court case.

Mr McGuinty: Well, Premier, if that is the case, then I'm sure you would have no objections whatsoever to holding a full public inquiry in

order to get to the bottom of this. After all, there are a number of cases before the courts arising from Walkerton, so I don't understand how you can draw a distinction between that particular

public inquiry and the one that the George family has been pressing you for for six years.

Here's another quote: "AG instructed by Premier that he desires removal within 24 hours. Instruction to seek injunction." Another quotes Deb Hutton as saying,

"Premier will be pleased to take the lead." Another quote: "Premier is hawkish on this issue. Feels that we are being tested."

Premier, with the greatest respect, you are less than objective when it comes to deciding what is important to do on this matter. So we are offering you the

best possible advice that we can, advice that is in keeping with the legitimate wishes of the George family. You know what that is, Premier? Hold a public inquiry so we can, once and for all, do

justice to Dudley George, do justice to his family, and do justice to the people of Ontario.

Hon Mr Harris: The whole matter of the inquiry is one we say we'll consider at the appropriate time, and we of course will do that. But what

you are quoting from are not affidavits, they are court documents. What I am quoting from are sworn affidavits. It's clear from the evidence of those affidavits that there was no input from me,

Ministers Runciman, Harnick or Hodgson, or any other member of the government in the command decisions of the OPP at Ipperwash. The OPP was never directed by any government official to remove the

occupiers from the park by force. The OPP had no communication with anyone from the government prior to the death of Dudley George. Ron Fox and Scott Patrick were seconded to the Ministry of the

Solicitor General as bureaucrats and had no role in any way in directing command decisions at Ipperwash. Those are actually sworn affidavits.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): New question. The leader of the third party.

Mr Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): My question is for the Premier and it concerns the accountability that a Premier must show the

citizens of Ontario.

Premier, you said in this Legislature, "I gave no direction to the police on how to deal with the occupation at Ipperwash Park," yet documents you were forced

to disclose in court show that you will "take the lead"; you wanted the protesters out of the park and you were hawkish on the point; your MNR minister wanted no negotiations; and you rejected

legal and police advice on how to deal peacefully with the occupation. How do you square your words, "I gave no direction," with the documents that now show otherwise?

Hon Mr Harris: Those are not affidavits you are quoting from, they are court documents. There are also affidavits before the judge. Indeed,

you are confirming to me that these are exactly the documents and the information that will be decided by the judge, and this court case will resolve that question for you.

Mr Hampton: The fact of the matter in the court case is that you've tried over and over again through manoeuvres in court to either have the

civil case stopped or to have the civil case limited such that many of the questions that need to be answered you would not be forced to respond to, or to limit the documents that you are forced to

disclose.

If we go back over the last five years, first you said that you did not meet with OPP officers about the Ipperwash occupation. Documents show you did. Then you

claimed to have met them at a cabinet committee meeting, but the records of the cabinet committee meeting show you weren't there. In fact, you met with them afterwards at a meeting where no records

were kept, or at least so far you haven't disclosed whatever record was kept.

Premier, the question is this: how can people across Ontario believe you today when over the last six years you have been forced to change your story as the

evidence has emerged?

Hon Mr Harris: The evidence before the court deals to the matter, and the evidence that people seem to be seeking answers to is my statement

that from the beginning neither I nor our ministers nor our government interfered in the way police responded to the Ipperwash situation. I stand by that. This is a matter before the court case.

This is exactly as supported by the statements that are actually sworn affidavits that are before the court case. Since these affidavits are there and the little snippets of documents that you

quote from are there, surely you would not object, then, to an impartial judge adjudicating this. I certainly have absolutely no hesitation in appearing, giving my testimony and letting the judge

decide, because all the evidence supports everything that I have said.

Mr Hampton: Premier, maybe you can explain to the people of Ontario why your government has brought motion after motion to in effect have the

civil case shut down; why your government has brought motion after motion to have documents sealed and not made available to the public; why your government has brought motion after motion to avoid

having to answer a number of the questions. Maybe you can explain to the people of the province how it is that after an innocent, unarmed man was killed, your government doesn't want to inquire

into what happened. What is it that stops you from having a full inquiry and answering the question: how and why was an innocent, unarmed man killed? Why is that, Premier?

Hon Mr Harris: The very question you seek answers to is a matter before the court case. The sworn affidavits are there. I don't know whether

you are challenging the validity of the OPP sworn affidavits or not. It seems to me that perhaps you are. The evidence as I see it is very clear and I stand by that. The court will decide.

COMPETITIVE ELECTRICITY MARKET

Mr Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): Another question for the Premier: Premier, today you had a lot of rhetoric about the economy but there

is something very important you could do about the economy. Earlier this summer a document was released by the Consumer Federation of America. It's called Electricity Deregulation and Consumers:

Lessons from a Hot Spring and a Cool Summer. You might call it Lessons from the USA. They look at electricity deregulation in California; they say it was a failure. They look at New York; it was a

failure. Massachusetts: a failure. Pennsylvania: a failure. In each case, prices were substantially higher and the stability of supply went down.

Premier, we acknowledge that Ontario's economy is now in difficult straits. Why under those circumstances would you press ahead with the sell-off and

deregulation of our electricity system when all of the evidence from the United States suggests it's only going to force prices higher and kill jobs?

Hon Michael D. Harris (Premier): Clearly, I think it's important that we do learn from other jurisdictions. There are jurisdictions where

prices have gone down or are lower as a result of the market forces and the market competition. So we made it very clear the conditions for opening the market in Ontario and the conditions that we

laid out. We made it very clear that the market would not open unless we could meet those conditions, like ample supply that you referenced, as appropriate competition to ensure that we're getting

the competitive forces.

If you look, for example, at long-distance rates, once competition was brought in, long-distance rates have plunged dramatically. And so we are looking at

other jurisdictions, mistakes that have been made, situations there. We want to ensure that we have absolutely a functioning market that will provide the best deal we possibly can for

Ontarians.

Mr Hampton: Premier, I'm going to send a copy of this report over to you. You ought to look at it, because the report refutes just about

everything you've said. Your Minister of Energy used to talk about California and how deregulation and privatization of electricity in California was a wonderful thing. It's been a disaster:

California, after losing billions of dollars, is now buying back their electricity system; in the United Kingdom, the report shows that consumers are now paying 25% more under a deregulated system;

in Pennsylvania, since the price caps came off, prices have increased significantly; Alberta.

Please point to a jurisdiction in North America, in Canada, where electricity deregulation has resulted in lower prices and a more stable supply of

electricity. There isn't one. Twenty-two states in the United States are now abandoning any plan they had to privatize and deregulate electricity.

Premier, you said that you wouldn't do it if the conditions weren't right. Take a lesson from those who've tried it in the United States. Stop the sell-off and

deregulation of Ontario's electricity system now. Save jobs. Save consumers' money. Will you do that?

Hon Mr Harris: As always, I appreciate the advice of the member. I will take it all under advisement and into consideration.

We do look at other jurisdictions and examples from there. If I followed every piece of advice you have, our taxes would be dramatically higher, we'd have

double-digit unemployment, we'd have over 1.3 million still on welfare, and the economy in Ontario would be a disaster. So you would understand why I don't take every piece of advice from the

leader of the New Democratic Party or every policy that you've initiated.

I fully admit you inherited a disastrous mess from the Liberals. It should have taken you about five years to correct the damage of the five years, but in fact

you contributed to it rather than helping. But I appreciate very much your advice. Every once in a while, you know, you come up with a good idea, and when you do, we adopt it.

IPPERWASH PROVINCIAL PARK

Mr Gerry Phillips (Scarborough-Agincourt): My question is to the Premier, and it is on Ipperwash. On September 6, the key meeting was held on

Ipperwash. We are aware there were at least six people at that meeting, perhaps more. You were there; Minister Hodgson; two OPP officers, Fox and Patrick; two deputy ministers, Todres and

Taman.

The only note that we've been able to secure is from Deputy Minister Taman, and it says this: "The Attorney General was instructed by the Premier that he

desires removal within 24 hours."

Was that what you told the meeting, Premier?

Hon Michael D. Harris (Premier): The Attorney General can respond.

Hon David Young (Attorney General, minister responsible for native affairs): As the member opposite is undoubtedly aware, there is a fair and

impartial court process underway.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Member, take your seat. The member for Hamilton East, come to order.

Hon Mr Young: As I was saying, as the member opposite is undoubtedly aware, there is a fair and impartial court process underway. Our system

of justice demands that we in this chamber respect that process. Respecting the process means that we don't try to adjudicate the case in this assembly.

I heard my friend a moment ago say he has only one document and can he get other ones. Frankly, all the relevant documents are in front of the court. The

government has co-operated fully from day one and will continue to co-operate. We have confidence in the judiciary of this province and we have confidence in the court system. If the member

opposite does not have confidence in the courts of this province, which are the envy of the world, I might add, he should stand up and he should say so.

Mr Phillips: I have confidence in the truth, and the only way we will get the truth is through an inquiry.

I go back to the Premier: this was the key meeting. You were at it, along with Minister Hodgson. Two senior deputy ministers were there and two senior OPP

officers. I will say to you, Premier, that if in fact you said that at that meeting -- and I'll quote again, "The Attorney General was instructed by the Premier that he desires removal within 24

hours."

Again, Premier, I want you to answer this question: is that what you told that meeting, that you desired removal of the First Nations within 24 hours? The

people of Ontario deserve an answer to that question.

Hon Mr Young: It's interesting to hear the member opposite go on and on. I guess he believes he is judge and jury. What he is saying quite

clearly is that he does not have confidence in the Ontario Provincial Police force.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order. Attorney General, take a seat.

Attorney General.

Hon Mr Young: What he is saying is that he does not have confidence in the Ontario Provincial Police force. Then he goes further and he says

that he has no confidence that the courts of this province can resolve a complicated dispute. In fact, last night on Michael Coren, the member for Scarborough-Agincourt said that the Premier should

"call a public inquiry headed by a respected individual and let the truth speak."

Is he saying that a Superior Court judge --

Interjections.

The Speaker: You didn't lose any time on that.

Hon Mr Young: Is he saying that a senior Superior Court judge does not have the ability to resolve this matter? Is he saying that that

individual is not able to allow the truth to speak -- his words? If that's what he's saying, he should stand in his place and make it very clear, once and for all.

EMERGENCY MEASURES

Mr Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North): My question today is for the Solicitor General. The events of September 11, 2001, shocked people all over

the world, but particularly here in the province of Ontario. We were all horrified by the pictures and stories of those people directly affected by this tragedy.

Many people aren't aware that while most of us watch events like this in disbelief, it is the job of some to assemble and deal with tragedies like this. Even

though a provincial emergency was never declared, would you share with this House some of the things that Emergency Measures Ontario did on that day?

Hon David Turnbull (Solicitor General): There is nothing more important to this government than the safety and security of our population.

Ontario is prepared to respond to acts of terrorism. At 8:50 am on September 11, EMO began to monitor events. At 11:08, EMO fully activated the provincial operations committee for 24-hour status.

All provincial ministries were put on alert and donation lines were implemented. Web sites were continually updated regarding border safety and crossing delays. Dr Jim Young, Ontario's chief

coroner, went to New York City to assist Canadian families and link with local officials. The Premier announced $3 million to aid Ontario victims and families. After the tragic events in the US,

all jurisdictions will be reviewing emergency measures.

Mr Dunlop: The Premier was very strong in his commitment yesterday about the safety of the people of Ontario. Would you outline some of the

initiatives the government will be undertaking over the next while to ensure Ontario and Ontarians are kept safe.

Hon Mr Turnbull: Since September 11 we've had a clear review starting of all emergency measures in Ontario. The Premier announced steps to

ensure the safety and security of Ontario families, an ongoing review of Ontario's emergency measures. He also asked the OPP commissioner to review ways the OPP could fight terrorism. We'll consult

with the OPP and indeed all police forces in Ontario on what additional resources may be required to keep Ontario safe. We'll review ways that federal, provincial and municipal governments, and

indeed other agencies, can better share intelligence information. We look forward to strengthening any provincial legislation that could be used to prevent terrorist acts, including possible

changes to the Remedies for Organized Crime and Other Unlawful Activities Act to cut terrorists off financially.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): New question.

Mr Dalton McGuinty (Leader of the Opposition): My question is for the Premier. A survey recently conducted by Emergency Measures Ontario

revealed that many of Ontario's municipalities are not ready for an emergency. Specifically, the survey revealed that although many of our municipalities have plans, 72% have not reviewed their

plans within the last year, and 62% do not have a training program for staff that manage emergencies. On top of that, it turns out that we are one of only two provinces in Canada which do not have

a law on the books requiring that all municipalities have in place an emergency plan as well as a requirement that they practise that plan.

I have two suggestions on this score. First of all, I believe you should meet immediately with our mayors to determine how we can work together to ensure that

we're prepared to meet any emergency. Second, we should pass a law in this House requiring that all municipalities have an emergency preparedness plan. Premier, what do you think of those two

specific, positive proposals?

Hon Michael D. Harris (Premier): That's exactly what we're doing: reviewing EMO, reviewing the practices and consulting with municipalities,

as I indicated yesterday. I appreciate confirmation that we're on the right track there. As part of that review, we certainly will look at whether it is necessary to make it mandatory for all

municipalities or whether we can achieve that compliance in other ways. Either way, the goal is the same, and I appreciate the constructive suggestions.

Mr McGuinty: On another matter related to this, a vital component of being able to respond to an emergency is being able to treat the injured

quickly, but our hospitals don't have the necessary room and flexibility, don't have the necessary buffer space, to deal with an influx of casualties. For example, hospitals here in Toronto have a

97% occupancy rate. We can barely cope with an outbreak of the flu, let alone imagine what we'd have to contend with if there was a major disaster of some kind.

A year ago, I put forward a plan to ease the pressure in our hospitals. My plan called for a moratorium on ER closures and the reopening of 1,600 acute care

beds. This plan would help to reduce occupancy rates and would help to ensure that our hospitals have the flexibility to deal with a sudden influx. Premier, will you implement this plan today?

Hon Mr Harris: I think you are aware we've implemented a number of measures to address the pressures on hospitals' emergency departments and

funding other initiatives. I think you are well aware that last year's flu season was dramatically different than the previous two years. Most people are indicating it's working very well.

I don't know how you were able to get a ruling, or a non-ruling, that your question wasn't in fact a supplementary; it's a different issue. I guess your tie-in

was by way of emergency services. But let me say this: our hospitals were in fact able to put in place an emergency services plan to assist those in the United States just as if the emergency had

taken place here. That plan worked very well. It was effective. The hospitals were co-operative, and they were able to respond.

ATTACK ON THE UNITED STATES

Mr Norm Miller (Parry Sound-Muskoka): My question today is for the Minister of Northern Development and Mines. I am proud knowing the

constituents of my riding, Parry Sound-Muskoka, have been actively engaged in supporting the victims of the September 11 terrorist attacks.

Of special note, the staff and students of Parry Sound High School erected a memorial to the victims of the attack.

I have also heard from the constituents of my riding that they applaud the efforts of our Premier, who led this House in a resolution and debate in support of

our American neighbours yesterday.

Minister, could you tell us what you have seen and heard about northerners and their reaction to this terrible tragedy?

Hon Dan Newman (Minister of Northern Development and Mines): I thank my colleague, who I know does an outstanding job of representing his

constituents of Parry Sound-Muskoka, for the question.

It is clear that we have all been affected by the events and the chilling aftermath of the September 11 terrorist attacks. Families across the province, indeed

in the north, were also directly impacted by the loss of life in this horrific event. However, even during times of remembrance, the constant values of caring and compassion are evident every day

in the north. Northerners have been pulling together to provide their support to our American neighbours in any way they can.

I am proud of our province's long history of tolerance and diversity. Ours is a land rich in cultural, linguistic, religious and ethnic diversity -- an

attribute to be celebrated by all of us. For those who defy that history through acts or thoughts of intolerance or hatred, I strongly condemn them. Hatred should find no home in the north, or in

any other community throughout our province.

Mr Miller: Along with the Premier and all of my colleagues, I strongly condemn any thoughts and acts contrary to our province's tradition of

tolerance. Hate crimes will not be tolerated in our province.

As the member for Parry Sound-Muskoka, the support for the victims of this tragedy -- whether they be the families directly impacted, neighbours of those still

missing or victims of intolerance and hate crimes -- is evident in every page of the signing book at my constituency office. Successful blood drives have occurred throughout my riding, and the

constituents of Parry Sound-Muskoka have offered their prayers and thoughts for the people of New York and Washington.

Minister, could you give us other examples of how people across the north have offered support for our American neighbours?

Hon Mr Newman: The everyday lives of northerners have been changed forever by the events in the United States on September 11, but what has

not changed in the north is the sense of northern spirit and the sense of community. That spirit remains unshaken. Displays of support were evident in town halls and company boardrooms alike. I'd

just like to give you some examples.

It's my understanding that Inco Ltd will donate $100,000 to the Canadian Red Cross; as well, they will be donating respirators and other emergency supplies and

aid to the rescue and relief efforts. I applaud the efforts of Inco Ltd and the other companies that have acted through good acts of corporate citizenship.

In Sault Ste Marie, the entire community responded to host 118 passengers from diverted Air Canada flights. Similar stories have been repeated throughout

communities in the north. I know that northerners will continue with that sense of community in the coming days and weeks ahead as we all pull together and provide support.

RENT REGULATION

Mr Rosario Marchese (Trinity-Spadina): My question is to the Premier. Since August, in Toronto alone 55,000 tenant households have been hit

with new landlord applications to raise their rents above the guideline increases. Tenants have been telling me it's not fair to pay rent increases that are almost double the rate of inflation.

Michael Prue, Howard Hampton and I have joined the city of Toronto in calling for rent rollbacks, which would save the average Toronto tenant $1,000.

Premier, I know you may be happy, and dare I say many Liberals might be happy, to line the pockets of landlords, but I tell you, there are many tenants -- dare

I say over three million tenants -- who need a break and are looking for your help. Isn't it time for a rent rollback?

Hon Michael D. Harris (Premier): I know the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing wants to respond, but perhaps I will take the first

question and pose this question: during the five years the NDP were in power, the guideline for rent increases went up 4.6%, 5.46%, 4.9% and 3.2%, every one of those higher than the next five years

that we took office of 2.9%, 2.8%, 2.8%, 3%, 3% and 2.6%. Clearly, the rent increase guidelines have been far less under our government than they were under your government. I just wonder how you

have the audacity to stand up and invite that comparison.

Mr Marchese: Premier, we talk to tenants and you talk to landlords. That's the difference. That's where you get your numbers and this is where

we get ours.

Tenants support rent control. They don't support the Tenant Protection Act that doesn't protect them but protects landlords. When I canvassed in the Beaches,

one particular individual told me, "I earn good money: $13 an hour." Poor guy, he says he earns good money. He earns about $20,006 a year. He says, "If these rent increases continue, I can't stay

in my apartment." These are the kinds of people I talk to. Most of these people will not be able to live in their apartments if these rent increases continue.

That's why the city of Toronto, which includes many Liberals and Tories -- 30 out of the 38 that were there to vote said, "We support rent rollbacks." New

Democrats support rent rollbacks because they support tenants. There are over 3.3 million tenants. They need your help. They need government to step in to support them. It's time to stop supporting

the landlords that both you and these fine Liberals beside me support. Tenants need your help. Will you support that rent rollback?

Hon Mr Harris: A 4.6% increase, 4.6% increase, 5.4% increase, 6% increase, 4.9% increase -- I can only assume that the tenants you're talking

to, had you stayed in power, would have been long gone two or three years ago.

Thank God we came into power and the rent increases were much lower than they were when you were in power. Thank goodness as well that the economy improved,

and the growth. Thank God they got tax refunds. Thank God they were able to keep more of their money. Thank goodness we were able to keep property taxes in the city of Toronto lower than they've

been in the last five years.

Is it perfect? No. Do we need to do more? Of course. But we certainly don't need a lecture or any example from your five years in power.

ELECTION IN

VAUGHAN-KING-AURORA

Mr Gregory S. Sorbara (Vaughan-King-Aurora): You're going to have to bear with me a little bit. I'm a little rusty at this, although I see not

much has changed.

My question is for the Premier. I noticed that the Premier referred in his mini throne speech earlier this afternoon to a dialogue in education and a dialogue

in health care; one has been going on and one is coming up. I want to ask him about what is the most important dialogue in a democracy, and that is an election.

In the election in Vaughan-King-Aurora the dialogue was clear and unequivocal, and that is that the Conservative agenda is dead. What the Harris government has

done in education is harmful to our children. What the Harris government has done in health is harmful to our own health. What they have done on environmental protection puts our water and our air

at risk.

I want to ask the Premier whether the voice of 62% of the population of a riding sends a clear message. I want to ask him whether he heard any of that and

whether his views on how to govern in this province have changed one iota from what we heard in this province as a result of the vote in Vaughan-King-Aurora not three months ago.

Hon Michael D. Harris (Premier): Let me first of all congratulate the member on his election in that by-election. I hope, on behalf of the

people of Vaughan-King-Aurora, and I'm sure, that the member will represent the people, or at least attempt to, as well as the former member did.

We always take the views of all citizens of Ontario very seriously. I take the views of the residents of Vaughan-King-Aurora seriously. I make great efforts to

consult with them directly. Now that you are their legislative voice in this Legislature, I hope your party will give you many opportunities to express those viewpoints, both in the debates and in

questioning here in the Legislature. I look forward to that and I look forward to the member's input reflecting those views.

Mr Sorbara: I'm sure as a result of the Premier's plea my leader and my party will give me far more opportunity than they would have

otherwise.

I want to say to the Premier that he says he listened very carefully to the results. On election night the Premier said that, notwithstanding the vote, nothing

is going to change. I want to tell you what the people in my riding said during that election: over the course of the past six years of economic growth, I say to the Premier, we have seen the

single most serious deterioration in public services in the history of this province since the Second World War. We have seen the most deterioration in the quality of health care, education and

environmental protection that we've ever seen. I say to the Premier as well --

Interjections.

Mr Sorbara: Boy, it's just the same, isn't it?

I say to the Premier that the failure of this government to actually invest not only in Vaughan-King-Aurora but throughout York region in terms of building new

public services has left us choking on our own traffic, has created congestion we have never seen. The Premier ought to make a commitment today to reverse some of those policies and start investing

in the people of Vaughan-King-Aurora, York region and the province.

Hon Mr Harris: I think there was an intervention from the Minister of Labour that indicated you ought to put things into perspective. You won

a by-election. We acknowledge that. We congratulate you on that. I wouldn't be so presumptuous, though, as to suggest that in this dramatic return to the Legislature, you have any better answers as

an individual than the disastrous record when you were in office as a Liberal MPP.

If ever the people of York region had to choke on tax increases, had to choke on a declining economy, had to choke on going into the depths of a recession, it

was under your administration. I encourage you to actually go back out and knock on a few more doors than the 29% who voted in the by-election and hear from them whether they liked the tax rates

under your government or whether they like the tax rates they're paying under our government, whether they liked the double-digit unemployment under you and the NDP or they like the employment

opportunities they have now -- I would invite you -- whether they like the new schools, the new growth, the new investment.

BORDER SECURITY

Mr John O'Toole (Durham): My question is for the Minister of Economic Development and Trade. The events of the past two weeks --

Interjection: Sorbara just walked out of the Legislature.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Order. I have to keep going. It's your own member doing it.

Mr O'Toole: Mr Speaker, on a point of order: Am I to lose my time because the member from Vaughan-King-Aurora walked out --

The Speaker: Don't start with that. The other side is going to start. You know I do not like smart-aleck comments like that. What we're going

to end up doing now is having them coming back and forth. Don't start with the points of order during question period. Your time started. Because your own members were yelling, your time's going.

I'll give you a little bit of leeway. Ask your question, please. From now on, both sides, no points of order during question period.

Interjection.

The Speaker: Deputy Premier, I can and I will. The member for Oshawa.

Mr O'Toole: That would be Durham. Thank you, Mr Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Economic Development and Trade. Minister, the

events of the past two weeks have forever changed our daily lives, not just in Ontario but indeed around the world. Our closest international friend, the United States, was the victim of a

senseless, ruthless and criminal attack that has sent all of us into a state of shock, anger and disbelief. As a result of these vicious attacks, we have seen tighter border security than ever

before. There is no doubt that there is a need for increased security, while at the same time we have also seen the resulting delays causing problems for some of Ontario's businesses. In my riding

of Durham, for instance, truckers, auto workers and agricultural people operate in a just-in-time environment.

Could you update the House on the important --

The Speaker: The member's time is up.

Hon Robert W. Runciman (Minister of Economic Development and Trade): I thank the member for Durham for the question. In Ontario, the export of

goods and services tops $200 billion annually. Fully 93% of these exports are destined for the United States. That translates into approximately 1.5 million Ontario jobs that depend directly on

trade with the United States.

The increased security precautions at the border after the September 11 terrorist attacks had an immediate effect on trade. At some border points, there were

20-kilometre lineups of trucks waiting to cross. Just-in-time delivery meant some businesses in Ontario didn't receive parts and had to cancel shifts, and temporary idle plants. Manufacturing,

agriculture and many other sectors suffered financial loss. The impact was significant and drove home just how very important the US economy is to Ontario.

The Speaker: New question, the member for Windsor West.

Mrs Sandra Pupatello (Windsor West): My question is for the Premier of the province. Premier, I'd like to ask you questions about home health

care.

The Speaker: I apologize; sorry. There was a supplementary. I apologize to the member; I lost track. The member for Durham, sorry.

Mr O'Toole: Thank you, Minister, for that very thorough answer, and I'd like to thank you for your strong leadership beside our Premier.

One has to wonder what the future holds for decisions that were made before September 11. This is not a situation that any of us has ever dealt with in the

past. Things are certainly not ordinary times.

Please share with the House what will happen at our borders. How do we see our future business relationships with our important trading partner, the United

States?

Hon Mr Runciman: There is no indication that trading relations will be jeopardized over the long term, but to ensure this remains true, we

must clearly raise comfort levels and confidence levels that the border is secure.

I have expressed my own view to federal authorities that Canada must be willing to consider new ways to address increasingly critical delays. Hundreds of

thousands of jobs in Ontario depend on continued ease of access at the border. We accept with understanding and compassion the desire of the United States to make it tougher to enter their country.

We recognize it is a difficult job, a delicate balance, reducing barriers to trade while erecting barriers to keep terrorists at bay, but it's a job that must be done.

HOME CARE

Mrs Sandra Pupatello (Windsor West): My question is for the Premier of Ontario. I'd like to ask the Premier questions about health care, about

home care specifically. Last June, when we were in this House, I was asking you questions about community care access centres. You took that opportunity to insult most of our seniors across the

province, and you also offended most of the volunteer boards of directors of the community care access centres right across this province and suggested that they just didn't know how to run their

business. We've been able to go home to our constituencies for the balance of the summer and meet people and talk to people who are affected by the cuts that you've made in home care.

I'd like to know if you've changed your mind, if you're going to decide now to bump up the funding that is going to home care. I'd like to ask you specifically

if your Minister of Health has told you that by the rollback in home care, you're actually costing the system more.

Premier, will you admit today that you understand that by cutting back in home care you're costing the system of health more, because a hospital bed where the

patients are required to stay costs more money than providing for --

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): The member's time is up.

Hon Michael D. Harris (Premier): I think the member is well aware that home care funding has been substantially increased by this government

all across the province, in total by some 72%, including in Essex county, where funding is up some 25% or 30%, well in excess of the rate of inflation, since we took office.

I know the Liberals are quick to point out we should spend more, spend more, spend more, spend more, and I understand that. In spite of the fact that we have

spent far more in home care than the Liberals did or the NDP did, the solution for you always is, "Spend more money."

We have, as you know, undertaken a review of the community care access centres. We are trying to work in partnership with them on behalf of our seniors, whom

we both desire to serve to the best of our ability. We are looking at best practices. As you know, some CCACs --

The Speaker: Order. The Premier's time is up.

Mrs Pupatello: I find it ironic that he wants to talk about spending or not spending, when he's constantly on the feds for more money. I guess

it's not about more spending. In fact, home care is about saving money. You realize that when you spend money in home care, you are moving patients out of the hospital and you're getting them home,

where they often want to be, and it saves the system money. You're spending less money today in home care than you did last year, but the difference is that our hospitals are not coping with

patients like they did even as late as last year.

Premier, are you going to understand what some of your own caucus members are telling you now, that your home care spending has to change? Let's talk to the

member from Lambton. What does he say to you about home care? Let's talk to the members from Waterloo. What are they saying to you about home care? I ask you, Premier, today, will you rescind what

decisions you've made in home care and take care of our frail and elderly people? Will you do that today, Premier?

Hon Mr Harris: The member from Lambton and the member from Waterloo say to me, "Gee, the Liberals spent $305 million on home care and we're

now spending $1.1 billion." They also point out to me that the Liberals spent $647 million on drugs, primarily to the benefit of seniors; we're spending $1.8 billion on drugs. They say to me that

in spite of these massive increases, the demand is still growing and there is a need for more and more services. They do say to me, "Thank goodness it isn't like the Liberals, when they were in

power here," and then they point to the Liberals in Ottawa who, while we have increased funding so dramatically, up to $1.1 billion from $305 million when you were in office, and $1.8 billion for

drugs, compared to $600 million when you were in office -- in spite of that, the Liberals in Ottawa, who promised pharmacare, have spent not one cent for seniors, for home care, for pharmacare here

in the province of Ontario. So we do the best we can without a cent from the Liberals, and we're spending far more than you ever did.

IMMIGRANT AND REFUGEE SERVICES

Mrs Margaret Marland (Mississauga South): My question is for the Minister of Citizenship, who has the added responsibility for immigration. In

recent years, the criminal justice system has been vigilant in trying to eliminate domestic violence within all sectors of our population. My concern is for the welfare of people coming to this

country to make a new life and the victimization of some of those families and their children. How is this government dealing with such cases involving newcomers who are unable to converse in

Hon Cameron Jackson (Minister of Citizenship, minister responsible for seniors): I'd like to thank my honourable colleague for the question

and to reassure her that this government is very much committed to removing all forms of violence against women and children, and its $140-million expenditure is just one example of the commitments

that are being made.

We're also very concerned about new Canadians who are living in Ontario, because they can be marginalized by their lack of language skills. That's why our

government has developed the cultural interpreter service and training grant programs. Just last month in Thunder Bay I announced about $2 million for 11 organizations that assist new Canadians in

Ontario with all manner of programs: access and

interpretation services, from women's shelters to second-stage housing to support services with the police and in our court systems.

The violence against women prevention initiative by the Ontario Women's Directorate and the domestic violence justice strategy of the Ministry of the Attorney

General are two examples of outstanding service that we're providing to help make Ontario a safer place for all Ontarians.

Mrs Marland: I want to thank the minister for his response. Ontario has welcomed 100,000 immigrants each year for the past 11 years. In the

period of 1990 to 2000, 1.3 million immigrants settled in Ontario. Coming to a new homeland presents some very difficult challenges in adjusting to their new life. What other programs are we

providing to help families face these challenges as we welcome them to this great province?

Hon Mr Jackson: There are about nine ministers of the government of Ontario who are actively engaged in support programs for new Canadians who

come to Ontario. In fact, it's rather significant. Our newcomer settlement program, for example, is spending $4 million to provide settlement services for new immigrants.

We'd also indicate that although Ontario welcomes 60% of Canada's immigration, we're only receiving about 40% of the federal money. I noticed that our Prime

Minister was in Toronto last night for a very important Liberal fundraiser and immigration seemed to be an important part of his theme and his discussions. It's unfortunate that he and his policies

continue to marginalize new Canadians who live in Ontario. These people contribute to our economy, they're building this province, they're strengthening our society, but they're not treated

equitably by our federal government. Ontario continues to backfill programs --

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Order. The minister's time is up.

NORTHERN TRANSPORTATION

Mr Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay): My question is to the Premier. The people of northeastern Ontario want to know what you, their northern

Premier, are going to do to save rail passenger service in northeastern Ontario. Seniors, First Nations communities and students, to name a few, all rely on rail services. It's fair to say that the

train is one of the driving forces behind economic development in the north.

Premier, we northerners know that the Northlander faces challenges. That's why, this summer, we presented many thoughtful and workable ideas on improving

services to an internal solutions group on attracting riders and improving the Northlander's bottom line. I understand that the report will be presented to the ONT Commission soon and that the

report makes many suggestions that will go a long way to help save the train.

Premier, the people of the north have done their job. We want to know what our northern Premier is going to do to save the Northlander train.

Hon Michael D. Harris (Premier): I think the Minister of Northern Development can respond.

Hon Dan Newman (Minister of Northern Development and Mines): Creating a climate for economic growth and prosperity is the number one priority

for our government in northern Ontario. We recognize that in order to reach and realize its full economic potential, northeastern Ontario requires access to effective and efficient transportation

and telecommunications, and that's why our goal is to improve the transportation and telecommunications services in northeastern Ontario.

This is about better service; it's not about saving dollars. The status quo has not and does not provide the level of service that northerners need, and it

doesn't provide the level of service that they deserve. That's why our government is committed to improving the infrastructure in the north. We want to ensure that there's reliable and effective

service for communities and businesses, both large and small, who use the ONTC services.

PETITIONS

SOCIAL SERVICES

Mr Dwight Duncan (Windsor-St Clair): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the provincial government has damaged public health care by slashing funding and engaged in ill-advised restructuring;

"Whereas the provincial government has slashed funding for social assistance therefore forcing welfare recipients to live in more poverty;

"Whereas the provincial government's refusal to raise minimum wage is forcing low-income workers to live in poverty;

"Whereas the provincial government's removal of the Rent Control Act has forced residents of this province to become homeless;

"Whereas the provincial government's refusal to commit itself to building new affordable housing is forcing people to either live on the street or in the

hostel system;

"Whereas the provincial government has shut down schools and instituted Bill 74, causing unrest in the school system;

"We, the undersigned, petition and make the following demands of the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"That the government of Ontario repeal Bill 74; reopen schools, hospitals and psychiatric institutions that have been closed; make a commitment to building new

social housing; reinstate the Rent Control Act; reinstate all funding to social assistance programs and health care; and raise the minimum wage.

"If the government is not prepared to act on these issues, we, the undersigned, demand that the government resign."

OHIP SERVICES

Mr David Christopherson (Hamilton West): I have petitions forwarded to my office and circulated by Gwen Lee, an active senior in Hamilton who

spends an awful lot of time and effort working particularly on health care issues. The petition reads as follows:

"Whereas the Harris government's decision to delist hearing aid evaluation and re-evaluation from OHIP coverage will lead to untreated hearing loss; and

"Whereas these restrictions will cut off access to diagnostic hearing tests, especially in geographic regions of the province already experiencing difficulties

due to shortages of specialty physicians; and

"Whereas OHIP will no longer cover the cost of miscellaneous therapeutic procedures, including physical therapy and therapeutic exercise; and

"Whereas services no longer covered by OHIP may include thermal therapy, ultrasound therapy, hydrotherapy, massage therapy, electrotherapy, magnetotherapy and

biofeedback; and

"Whereas one of the few publicly covered alternatives includes hospital outpatient clinics where waiting lists for such services are up to six months long;

and

"Whereas delisting these services will have a detrimental effect on the health of all Ontarians, especially seniors, children, hearing-impaired people and

industrial workers; and

"Whereas the government has already delisted $100 million worth of OHIP services,

"Therefore, we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to immediately restore OHIP coverage for these delisted services."

On behalf of these petitioners and all of my constituents in Hamilton West, I am proud to add my name to this petition.

LORD'S PRAYER

Mr John O'Toole (Durham): It's my pleasure to read a petition I've received from Betty Greentree, who is the secretary for the official board

of the Harmony United Church.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the Lord's Prayer, also called Our Father, has been used to open the proceedings of municipal chambers and the Ontario Legislative Assembly since the

beginning of Upper Canada in the 18th century; and

"Whereas such use of the Lord's Prayer is part of Ontario's long-standing heritage and a tradition that continues to play a significant role in contemporary

Ontario life;

"Whereas the Lord's Prayer is the most meaningful expression of the religious convictions of many Ontario citizens;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the Parliament of Ontario maintain the use of the Lord's Prayer in its proceedings, in accordance with its long-standing established custom, and do all

in its power to maintain use of this prayer in municipal chambers throughout the province of Ontario."

On behalf of my constituents in the United Church, I would be pleased to sign and submit this petition.

NURSES

Mr Sean G. Conway (Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke): I am pleased to submit and support a petition from several of my constituents, which petition

reads:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the nurses of Ontario are seeking relief from heavy workloads, which have contributed to unsafe conditions for patients and have increased the risk of

injury to nurses; and

"Whereas there is a chronic nursing shortage in Ontario; and

"Whereas the Ontario government has failed to live up to its commitment to provide safe, high-quality care for patients;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"We demand the Ontario government take positive action to ensure that our communities have enough nursing staff to provide patients with the care they

need.

"Furthermore, we petition the Ontario government accordingly that the government must:

"Ensure wages and benefits are competitive and value all nurses for their dedication and commitment;

"That the Ontario government ensure there are full-time and regular part-time jobs available for nurses in hospitals, nursing homes and the community; and

"Furthermore, that the government of Ontario ensure that government revenues fund health care, not tax cuts; and

"Finally, that the provincial government ensure front-line nurses play a key role in health reform decisions."

PERSONAL NEEDS ALLOWANCE

Mr David Christopherson (Hamilton West): I have further petitions from the Hamilton second-level lodging home tenants' task force. The

petition reads as follows:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas individuals who are tenants and residents in facilities such as care homes, nursing homes or domiciliary hostels under certain acts are provided with

a personal needs allowance to meet incidental costs other than those provided by the facility; and

"Whereas the personal needs allowance has been fixed by the Ontario government at a rate of $112 for nearly a decade and has not kept pace with cost-of-living

increases, and furthermore is inadequate to meet incidental costs such as clothing, hygiene products and essentials;

"Therefore, we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to immediately review and amend provincial legislation to increase the personal

needs allowance from $112 a month to $160 a month for individuals living in care homes, nursing homes or other domiciliary hostels."

I add my name to these petitioners'.

LORD'S PRAYER

Mr Joseph N. Tascona (Barrie-Simcoe-Bradford): I'm pleased to present a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario, and it reads as

follows:

"Whereas the Lord's Prayer, also called Our Father, has been used to open the proceedings of municipal chambers and the Ontario Legislative Assembly since the

beginning of Upper Canada in the 18th century; and

"Whereas such use of the Lord's Prayer is part of Ontario's long-standing heritage and a tradition that continues to play a significant role in contemporary

Ontario life; and

"Whereas the Lord's Prayer is a most meaningful expression of the religious convictions of many Ontario citizens;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the Parliament of Ontario maintain the use of the Lord's Prayer in its proceedings, in accordance with its long-standing established custom, and do all

in its power to maintain use of this prayer in municipal chambers in Ontario."

I affix my signature.

HOME CARE

Mr James J. Bradley (St Catharines): The petition reads as follows:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the need for home care services is rapidly growing in Ontario due to the aging of the population and hospital restructuring; and

"Whereas the prices paid by community care access centres to purchase home care services for their clients are rising due to factors beyond their control;

and

"Whereas the funding provided by the Ontario government through the Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care is inadequate to meet the growing need for home care

services; and

"Whereas the funding shortfall, coupled with the implications of Bill 46, the Public Sector Accountability Act, currently before the Legislature, are forcing

CCACs to make deep cuts in home care services without any policy direction from the provincial government;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"

(1) That the Legislative Assembly direct the provincial government to take control of policy-setting for home care services through rational, population-based

health care planning rather than simply by underfunding the system; and

"

(2) That the Legislative Assembly direct the provincial government to provide sufficient funding to CCACs to support the home care services that are the

mandate of community care access centres in the volumes needed to meet their communities' rapidly growing needs; and

"

(3) That the Legislative Assembly make it necessary for the provincial government to notify its agencies about the amount of funding they will be given by the

government in a fiscal year at least three months in advance of that commitment."

I sign this petition. I am in complete agreement.

OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH AND SAFETY

Mr David Christopherson (Hamilton West): The issue of cancer in the workplace is not going away and neither is the fight to make this an issue

the government deals with. To that extent, I still receive petitions from CAW members from all across Ontario. The petitions read as follows:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas this year 130,000 Canadians will contract cancer and there are at minimum 17 funerals every day for Canadian workers who died from cancer caused by

workplace exposure to cancer-causing substances known as carcinogens; and

"Whereas the World Health Organization estimates that 80% of all cancers have environmental causes and the International Labour Organization estimates that one

million workers globally have cancer because of exposure at work to carcinogens; and

"Whereas most cancers can be beaten if government had the political will to make industry replace toxic substances with non-toxic substances; and

"Whereas very few health organizations study the link between occupations and cancer, even though more study of this link is an important step to defeating

this dreadful disease;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That it become a legal requirement that occupational history be recorded on a standard form when a patient presents at a physician for diagnosis or treatment

of cancer; and

"That the diagnosis and occupational history be forwarded to a central cancer registry for analysis as to the link between cancer and occupation."

On behalf of my constituents and NDP colleagues, I add my name to this petition.

LORD'S PRAYER

Mrs Julia Munro (York North): To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the Lord's Prayer, also called Our Father, has been used to open the proceedings of municipal chambers and the Ontario Legislative Assembly since the

beginning of Upper Canada in the 18th century; and

"Whereas such use of the Lord's Prayer is part of Ontario's long-standing heritage and a tradition that continues to play a significant role in contemporary

Ontario life; and

"Whereas the Lord's Prayer is a most meaningful expression of the religious convictions of many Ontario citizens;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the Parliament of Ontario maintain the use of the Lord's Prayer in its proceedings, in accordance with its long-standing established custom, and do all

in its power to maintain use of this prayer in municipal chambers in Ontario."

As I am in agreement with this, I will be signing it.

HOME CARE

Mr Michael A. Brown (Algoma-Manitoulin): I have a petition signed by literally thousands of people. To the Legislative Assembly of

Ontario:

"Whereas the need for home care services is rapidly growing in Ontario due to the aging of the population and hospital restructuring; and

"Whereas the prices paid by community care access centres to purchase home care services for their clients are rising due to factors beyond the control of

CCACs; and

"Whereas the funding model provided by the Ontario government through the Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care is inadequate to meet the growing need for home

care services; and

"Whereas the funding shortfall, coupled with the implications of Bill 46, the Public Sector Accountability Act, currently before the Legislature, are forcing

CCACs to make deep cuts in home care services without any policy direction from the provincial government;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"

(1) That the Legislative Assembly direct the provincial government to take control of policy-setting for home care services through rational, population-based

health planning rather than by simply underfunding the system; and

"

(2) That the Legislative Assembly direct the provincial government to provide sufficient funding to CCACs to support the home care services that are the

mandate of CCACs in the volumes needed to meet their communities' rapidly growing needs; and

"

(3) That the Legislative Assembly make it necessary for the provincial government to notify the agencies it funds of the amount of funding they will be given

by the government in a fiscal year at least three (3) months before the commencement of the fiscal year."

I'm happy to support this petition and affix my signature.

OHIP SERVICES

The Acting Speaker (Mr Bert Johnson): Further petitions? The Chair recognizes the member for Timmins --

Mr Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay): James Bay.

The Acting Speaker: -- and James Bay.

Mr Bisson: James Bay. It's the little one underneath Hudson Bay.

I have a petition here signed by a number of people from across the riding, and it reads as follows.

"Whereas the Harris government's decision to delist hearing aid evaluation and re-evaluations from OHIP coverage will lead to untreated hearing loss; and

"Whereas these restrictions will cut off access to diagnostic hearing tests, especially in geographic regions of the province already experiencing difficulties

due to shortages of specialty physicians" -- such as in the Timmins-James Bay area -- "and

"Whereas OHIP will no longer cover the cost of miscellaneous therapeutic procedures, including physical therapy and therapeutic exercise; and

"Whereas services no longer covered by OHIP may include thermal therapy, ultrasound therapy, hydrotherapy, massage therapy, electrotherapy, magnetotherapy,

transcutaneous nerve therapy stimulation and biofeedback; and

"Whereas one of the few publicly covered alternatives includes hospital outpatient clinics where waiting lists for such services are up to six months long;

and

"Whereas delisting these services will have a detrimental impact on the health of Ontarians, especially seniors, children, hearing-impaired people and

industrial workers; and

"Whereas the government has already delisted $100 million worth of OHIP services;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to immediately restore OHIP coverage for these delisted services."

I sign the petition on behalf of the constituents.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

RESCUING CHILDREN FROM

SEXUAL EXPLOITATION ACT, 2001 /

LOI DE 2001

SUR LA DÉLIVRANCE DES ENFANTS

DE L'EXPLOITATION SEXUELLE

Mr Young moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill 86,

An Act to rescue children trapped in the misery of prostitution and other forms of sexual exploitation and to amend the Highway Traffic Act / Projet

de loi 86, Loi visant à délivrer les enfants prisonniers de la prostitution et d'autres formes d'exploitation sexuelle et modifiant le Code de la route.

The Acting Speaker (Mr Bert Johnson): The Chair recognizes the Attorney General.

Hon David Young (Attorney General, minister responsible for native affairs): Thank you, Mr Speaker. At the outset, with your permission, I

will be sharing my time with the member for Dufferin-Peel-Wellington-Grey and the member for Barrie-Simcoe-Bradford.

I am pleased to stand today to proceed with second reading of this very important piece of legislation entitled Rescuing Children from Sexual Exploitation Act,

2001. It is both distressing and disturbing that we do indeed need this legislation in this great province, but the reality is that every day across Ontario, children, some as young as 12 years of

age, are being sold for sex. They are being coerced into using their bodies to make money for adults. It's just that simple.

They are forced to turn tricks on street corners. They are enslaved in massage parlours, strip clubs, and they are made to sell sex on telephone lines and

through the Internet. Clearly, these young individuals are victims. They are victims of pimps, johns and other sexual predators who are engaging in a form of sexual abuse.

If these children try to leave these terrible situations, they often find themselves the victims of physical and emotional abuse as well. For many, what this

means is a doomed existence. It means that these children, who desperately need protection, are going to be victims forevermore. They need help. They need help to break away from those adults who

abuse them and exploit them.

This problem is not unique to Ontario. We are not alone in our desire to help children who are being exploited for commercial purposes. Approximately three

years ago, at the annual Premiers' conference, Premier Harris and other Premiers from across this country agreed to continue to pursue appropriate actions to protect children who are trapped in a

life of prostitution. They called on the federal government to join their efforts to stop child prostitution. The Premiers at that point in time, some three years ago, thought it to be imperative

that they act together and they act quickly in order to try to diminish what is a very clear and present danger.

In the sexual exploitation of children bill, we have outlined a number of remedies that are required. We know they're required because we have spoken to

children's aid society workers from across this province and we have spoken to the police. Both of those groups deal with this problem on a daily basis. It's not theoretical. It's not a bunch of

papers in front of them. It's a sad reality of life for many across this province.

A recent study which looked at children in Canada, the United States and Mexico found that sexual exploitation of children had grown to record levels. The

estimate from that study, in the review of just the United States of America, found that one in 100 are victims of commercial sexual exploitation. That's one child out of every 100 children is a

victim. While Canadian figures are not available, it is anticipated that the percentage would be roughly similar in our country. The author of the study stated that child exploitation is the most

hidden form of sexual abuse in North America.

Make no mistake: this is not just a problem for the big cities. It affects children across this province. The police in Toronto tell us, as do police in other

parts of this province, that individual children from rural areas come to urban communities and are exploited in just this way. For that reason, no one should turn a blind eye to this epidemic, an

epidemic that impacts the most vulnerable individuals in our society.

We must take action. We must take action now to protect these young people.

The proposed act would rescue children under the age of 18 trapped in the misery of prostitution or in other forms of sexual exploitation. It would allow the

province to sue sexual predators who target our kids. It would help these children return to a normal life that involves going to school, playing with their friends and playing sports, instead of

their current existence, an existence that has them each and every day being abused by adults whose motive is to make money.

The proposed bill would attack this very serious situation in two primary ways. It would provide the tools to allow sexually exploited children to be rescued

from dangerous situations. Those are the tools that child care workers and police have asked for, and with our legislation both would be permitted to intervene, as I will explain in a moment. The

bill would also allow the government to target abusers in numerous ways.

During the development of this bill, we consulted with many individuals across this province who deal directly with exploited children. They do so on a daily

basis, and they believe this bill responds to what is indeed a very serious and ongoing problem.

The proposed legislation recognizes that time has changed, life has changed, and frankly, as sad as it is to say, exploitation methods have changed. The grim

reality of today includes sexual exploitation of children that goes well beyond the scenario of a young person standing on a street corner in an urban centre. Many child victims are being kept

underground to avoid detection by the justice system. However, if this legislation is passed, it would empower the authorities to intervene in the case of children exploited by street prostitution,

in adult massage parlours, in bawdy houses and through escort services. Whether it be through telephone or Internet sex lines, this legislation would allow the authorities to intervene, and the

same is true of situations where young people are being forced to participate in the pornography industry, if one can call it that.

The legislation would allow police and children's aid workers to rescue these young people from dangerous situations, in some instances with a warrant and in

some instances without. A child could be rescued without a warrant if obtaining a warrant would jeopardize the ability to remove the child from a dangerous situation.

Without this legislation, the police and child care workers who struggle with these growing problems will continue to be frustrated in the way that they have

been frustrated in the past. Police forces have said -- in fact, numerous individuals have specifically spoken to me about their frustration. They said they require help. They need help to help

these young victims who are being exploited.

This legislation, if passed, would put them on a level playing field with those sexual predators who are making victims of society's most vulnerable. It would

help get these young people into a safe environment where they belong.

It is a sad reality that these children who are being sexually exploited for profit are in desperate need of care. If passed, this legislation would address

their unique care and treatment needs. Once they are removed from the predator, once they are rem