Manitoba Hansard — Sitting 61B (37th Legislature, 1st Session)

37-1-61b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

First Session -Thirty-Seventh Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. L No. 618 - 1:30 p.m., Thursday, July 13, 2000 ISSN 0542-5492

1\temher AGLUGUB, Cris ALLAN, Nancy ASHTON, Steve, lion. ASPER, Linda BARREn·, Becky, lion. CALDWELL, Drew, lion. CERILLI, Marianne CIIOMIAK, Dave, lion. CUMMINGS, Glen DACQUA Y, Louise DERKACH, Leonard DEWAR, Gregory DOER, Gary, lion. DRIEDGER, Myrna DYCK, Peter ENNS, Harry FAURSCIIOU, David FILMON, Gary FRIESEN, Jean, Hon. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. GILLESII AMMER, Harold IIELWER, Edward IIICKES, George JENNISSEN, Gerard KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie LA Til LIN, Oscar, Hon. LAURENDEAU, Marcel LEMIEUX, Ron, !Jon. LOEWEN, John MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. MAGUIRE, Larry MALOWA Y, Jim MARTINDALE, Doug McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon.

MJIIYCHUK, MaryAnn, !Jon. MITCHELSON, Bonnie NEV AKSHONOFF, Tom PENNER, Jack PENNER, Jim PITURA, Frank PRAZNIK, Darren REID, Daryl REIMER, Jack ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. ROCAN, Denis RONDEAU, Jim SALE, Tim, lion. SANTOS, Conrad SCHELLENBERG, Harry SCHULER, Ron SELINGER, Greg, Hon. SMITII, Joy SMITH, Scott STEFANSON, Eric STRUTHERS, Stan TWEED, Mervin WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Seventh Legislature Constituency The Maples St. Vital Thompson Riel Inkster Brandon East Radisson Kildonan Ste.

Rose Seine River Russell Selkirk Concordia Charles wood Pembina Lakeside Portage Ia Prairie Tuxedo Wolseley River Heights Minnedosa Gimli Point Douglas Flin Flon St. James The Pas St. Norbert La Verendrye Fort Whyte St. Johns Arthur-Virden Elmwood Burrows Lord Roberts Minto River East Interlake Emerson Steinbach Morris Lac du Bonnet Transcona Southdale Rupcrtsland Carman Assiniboia Fort Rouge Wellington Rossmere Springfield St. Boniface Fort Garry Brandon West Kirkfield Park Dauphin-Roblin Turtle Mountain Swan River Political Affiliation N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. P.C.

N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. P.C. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. Lib. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.IH. P.C. N.D.I'. N.D.P. N.D.!'. N.D.I'. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P P.C. N.D.P.

4005 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Thursday, July 13, 2000 The House met at 1:30 p.m. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS Flood Forecast Hon. Oscar Lathlin (Minister of Con servation): Mr. Speaker, I would like to give the House an update on the flooding that has been brought on by heavy rain in the last few weeks. The rural municipalities of Hanover and Brokenhead and the town of Beausejour have passed resolutions requesting disaster financial assistance from the Province. This makes a total of seven local governments who have passed similar motions.

In addition, Manitoba Emer gency Management Organization has received 49 calls from citizens affected by heavy rain. At this point, the Province is both preparing for any future heavy rains and assessing the impact of rain on areas that have already been impacted. A meeting was held this morning with representatives from a number of provincial departments to ensure Manitoba will respond quickly and effectively if we experience any fur ther heavy rain.

Included in this meeting were representatives from Conservation, Highways and Government Services, Health, Agriculture, as well as representatives from federal and muni cipal governments. Each of these departments has taken every preparation to ensure that the Province can respond to this situation as appro priate. While we have not identified any emer gencies that require provincial intervention, we are fully prepared to respond if necessary. At the present time, it is important that anybody who has experienced flooding from heavy rain contact the local government office.

MEMO is continuing to gather information so our govern ment can assess what support is appropriate for these conditions, and that information is being provided to MEMO from rural municipality and city offices. Each local government also has information related to clean-up and recovery from heavy rain. Thank you. Mr. Harry Eons (Lakeside): Well, Mr.

Speaker, I thank the Honourable Minister for this updating of the situation as it is developing in different parts of the province, but, as I said yesterday, it is time for some clear indication from this government that it will respond, more than simply holding meetings and holding hands with representatives of the affected area. I remind this government it was in 19 99 that one of the disasters of the century, if you like, hit the southwestern part of our province.

It was just about now that the then-Premier, with a number of cabinet ministers, met with people in Brandon and committed $60 million, $70 million of sup port to the farmers. That was a Conservative government showing some understanding about what is still the most important industry in the province of Manitoba, agriculture, that has so many spinoff effects for a lot of the people in the city of Winnipeg, a lot of the workers in the city of Winnipeg. When agriculture flounders the province flounders. When is this government going to start showing some leadership? Hon.

Jon Gerrard (River Heights): I ask leave to speak on the Minister's statement. Mr. Speaker: Does the Honourable Member have leave? [Agreed] Mr. Gerrard: I want to thank the Minister for his update and urge him to make a larger effort to find out how many citizens have in fact been involved, farm communities, rural communities and the city of Winnipeg. My contacts already suggest that number is far greater than the 49 calls that the Minister has received. I think it be hooves the Minister to work a little harder to get a real comprehensive assessment of the extent of damage in this province. Thank you.

4006 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 13, 2000 TABLING OF REPORTS Ron. Becky Barrett (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Act): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to table the following report: the Quarterly Financial Report for the three months ended May 31, 2000, for Manitoba Public Insur ance Corporation. * (13:35) ORAL QUESTION PERIOD Flooding Agricultural Disaster Assistance Mrs.

Bonnie Mitchelson (Interim Leader of the Official Opposition): Lately, we have seen on the news, on a regular basis, the devastation that is facing many Manitoba families due to the heavy rains, circumstances that no one could have anticipated, not those who are suffering right now or anyone else. Not even government could have anticipated what could have occurred. In many communities, we are seeing insult added to injury with communities and farm families that have suffered two years in a row. We have not seen proper consideration given to those farm families who were devastated last year.

I would like to ask the Premier today when he might stand up, show some leadership, take some action and ensure that the farm families who are suffering right now receive the kind of support they deserve from this government. Ron. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr. Speaker, we certainly understand the situation with the pro ducers of this province and the rain in Manitoba.

We believe that many of the crops, if they con tinue to be negatively impacted by the high moisture levels and with the rain of the past couple of weeks, will be eligible for crop insurance coverage or other programs that will be available to deal with the income impacts of the weather. We also understand that long-term solutions are absolutely essential for producers and communities in Manitoba for water management and situations such as excessive moisture. We have started to put in long-term measures to deal with programs that were not covered by the previous government.

In other words, rather than have a situation where last year unseeded acreage of land was not covered under crop insurance, this government was proud to change that coverage and to, in fact, arrange an agree ment with the federal government. [interjection} Well, if the decision had been made, why did it not flow for June of 1999? Mr. Speaker, the Member opposite knows the decision was not made. Not a penny flowed from crop insurance. So we are putting in place long-term solutions, solutions that were neglected by members opposite. Mrs.

Mitchelson: But there are certain natural disasters that no government can anticipate, no farm family can anticipate. I think the kind of response that we got from the Premier is not one that shows significant leadership or gives Mani tobans any sense of comfort that he understands the issue and wants to do something for those families that were devastated. We will never be able to have programs in place that will cover natural disasters. What we saw last year was many families that still have not received a nickel from this administration, from this government.

I would like to ask the Premier again, in consideration of those farm families that are still devastated and having difficulty making ends meet: Will he show some leadership today and ensure that those families receive the sup-port that they deserve? Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, the federal-provincial income support program of$100 million is more than a nickel. I think the Member opposite does a great disservice to the people of this province by misrepresenting the truth.

One of the areas that we are discovering in more depth as our ministers tour southeast Mani toba, north-[interjection] I will be there next week-northwest of Winnipeg. We have had confirmation of the statement made by the Mem ber for Emerson (Mr. Penner) when he indicated that cuts were made, decisions were made to the Department of Conservation that a significant amount of money was cut out of their budget,

July 13, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4007 and they have not had the resources to keep up with the cleanouts and maintenance of drains. I, first of all, want to confirm that, yes, the crop insurance programs and other programs will be available; hopefully, will not be neces sary. We can get some recovery with the weather, but they will be there. They are there in place. Secondly, some of the issues raised by the Member for Emerson of the drastic and radical cuts of the '90s and the lack of a drainage pro gram, perhaps, those are some of the long-term solutions this Legislature should be looking at, Mr.

Speaker. Mrs. Mitchelson: Mr. Speaker, again, that kind of- Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. * (13 :40) Mrs. Mitchelson: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, but that kind of an answer from the Premier, the First Minister of this province, is little comfort to those farm families who are experiencing a cash crunch. I know Manitoba farm families are very proud, but it is pretty hard to keep that pride when you are having difficulty making ends meet and feeding your families. So blaming the federal government or blaming the former government is not what those farm fami lies need.

They need leadership from this Pre mier and this government. I want to know what this Premier and his government are going to do today to ensure that farm families, through no fault of their own, are in devastating circumstances today and are having difficulty making ends meet. What is he going to do today to address those issues and show some compassion for those farm families? Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, first of all, I want to again confirm that crop insurance and other pro grams are and will be available to the producers of Manitoba that are affected by the present situation.

Secondly, the Department of Agriculture has put in place strategies for livestock. The Minister toured the areas yesterday, or this morning rather. The Member for La Verendrye (Mr. Le mieux), the Minister, toured the areas the night before. Thirdly, we have negotiated with the federal government an income program that we announced a few months ago; and fourthly, Mr. Speaker, we do believe and we concur with all members of southwest Manitoba that last year's flooding was eligible for disaster assistance.

We pursued that after the former govern ment was not able to get a grant of the request that was submitted in June, '99. We received confirmation in February, by a federal Order-in Council from the Defence Minister, that that in fact was eligible for disaster assistance. The Prime Minister stated that it was not eligible, which was a mistake, and we are still pursuing that with the federal government. We believe that if there is an ice storm in Quebec and Ontario, it should be dealt with under federal disaster assistance.

We believe the flooding in southwest Manitoba is eligible and entitled to disaster assistance programs in Manitoba. Mr. Speaker: The Honourable Interim Leader of the Official Opposition, with a new question. Mrs. Mitchelson: Mr. Speaker, but again, the Premier, the First Minister of this province is missing the point. There are farm families today that are having difficulty making ends meet. There are farm families that are experiencing a cash crunch as a result of the 19 99 flooding that has not been addressed by this government. He can talk about long-term plans, and that is well and good.

Those kinds of plans need to be in pla ce, but those plans are going to do nothing for the farm families that were devastated last year, and in many situations, Mr. Speaker, are devastated again this year by circumstances that are not within their control. We are not saying that the Government could have anticipated this, but we are saying that they need to show some compassion today, and they need to act swiftly to put in place some support so that those families, those farmers can

4008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 13, 2000 feed their families. We do not want programs for cows; we want programs for families. Will this Premier act now and ensure that to day there is some support for those families that are so much in need? Mr. Doer: As the Member knows, we have pur sued, since the election, a strategy to produce results on the income side which produced $100 million to producers and to produce results on the disaster assistance side. We believe in a federal-provincial disaster assistance program.

We do not believe that we can afford to spend over $350 million out of the Fiscal Stabilization Fund, like members opposite did, Mr. Speaker, because it is unsustainable. We are trying and we will live within our means. We believe very strongly that it is a disaster. We are going to continue to work to get a solution with the federal government. It is a national disaster assistance program, and I am surprised that members opposite would not be united in our voice to Ottawa for southwestern Manitoba. * (13:45) Mrs. Mitchelson: Again the Premier misses the point. It is time to stop blaming others. Mr.

Speaker, these are Manitoba farmers and Mani toba farm families. The last time I looked, the Manitoba government has a role to play in sup porting its citizens. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mrs. Mitchelson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Again, the last time I looked the Manitoba government had a role and responsibility, especially a leadership role to take, when Mani toba citizens are suffering, when Manitoba citizens are having difficulty making ends meet.

There is no greater time than this for this Pre mier and his government to show some leadership, to stand up for those who are having difficulty with cash flows and ensure that they have the money in their pockets to feed their families. Will this Premier not now stop blaming and start showing some leadership and support those families in need? Hon. Rosano Wowchuk (Minister of Agriculture and Food): Mr. Speaker, I just got back from the southeast part of the province, and I had the opportunity to meet with producers and municipal leaders in the area.

I have to tell the Leader of the Opposition that producers are not asking for money right now. Producers are hoping that the weather will tum around and that they will indeed get a crop. But one of the other issues that the producers and municipal leaders have been asking us for is to start doing some long-term planning so that. indeed, when there is this kind of heavy rainfall, there will be the infrastructure to help drain it off. But, Mr. Speaker, we all hope that the sun shine that we have right now will continue and that there will be some good crops in the south east part of the province.

That is what we are all hoping for. If there are no good crops, people will call, will be filing for crop insurance. and there have been 270 claims for crop insurance now. There is also a long-term disaster assistance program. Mrs. Mitchelson: Mr. Speaker, that kind of an answer is a slap in the face to southwestern Manitoba. This Minister of Agriculture has yet to tour southwestern Manitoba, that has been hit two years in a row by devastation, by flooding, by lack of the ability to get any source of income to support their families.

So she may have visited southeast Manitoba today to try to ad dress the issues of the rainfall this year, but she has not addressed the issues that devastated southwestern Manitoba last year. When will this Premier stand up for the farm families who, for two years in a row in some cases, have been devastated and ensure that they have the cash flow to feed their families? * (13:50) Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr. Speaker, there are three issues here. I think that we have to be very precise in our answers dealing with the three issues that are rolled together in general questions. One is southwest Manitoba.

Everyone in this Chamber, I would hope, agrees that that is a disaster under the disaster assistance program in Ottawa and nationally, and our money to resolve that disaster, consistent with the federal formula, is on the table, remains on the table and

July 13 , 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4009 we want to settle it. Those people, those pro ducers are entitled to that. It is part of a national program. Secondly, we have negotiated an income program, some hundred million dollars, that required $40 million from this government. That money has flowed, including to southwest Mani toba. It does not of fset the real pain that we recognize from the disaster in 19 99 which we continue to fight on behalf of those producers. The third issue is the present situation, Mr. Speaker, and the present situation is crop insurance to deal with the present situation.

There is some $70 million in the Agriculture budget out of $1 10 million in the Bu dget partly for disaster assistance, partly for income support programs for farm families. We believe that we should do everything possible in the national program. We also believe in living within the Budget we presented in this Legislature. I know that is an unusual idea for members opposite. But having said that, this Legislature should be united. Quebec and Ontario should not be treated one way on disaster assistance and south west Manitoba another way, Mr. Speaker. Canadian Farm Income Program Coverage Levels Mr.

Jack Penner (Emerson): Mr. Speaker, no wonder farmers are discouraged by this program. Listening to their own Minister of Agriculture portray a picture that is simply not factual is very disheartening for the people of Manitoba. This Premier, when questioned about the new Cana dian farm income program, said-and he indi cated that it was both based on risk and cash receipts. [interjection} Yes, you did. Now I would like to ask the Minister-[interjection] He cringes. It can only be based on one, on either risk or income.

The other one is more over the federal commitment and the provincial com mitment under this new program. Mr. Speaker: Order. The Honourable Govern ment House Leader, on a point of order. Point of Order Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. We are wondering if the Member came here today with a question. I look at Beauchesne's Citation 409. It says questions must be brief. "A

preamble need not exceed one carefully drawn sentence." The citation, I know, is heartily endorsed by the Opposition House Leader. We have heard that in the House. Mr. Speaker, would you please direct the Member to put the question. Mr. Speaker: The Honourable Of ficial Opposi tion House Leader, on the same point of order? Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (Opposition House Leader): On the same point of order, Mr. Speaker. Beauchesne's 409, the Honourable Minister is correct.

But on a matter of urgent public importance such as this, it is important that the Member putting the question puts the in formation forward so that this government understands it, because each question that has been brought forward today has not been answered. They do not want to recognize the problems that the farm community is having to day. Mr. Speaker: On the point of order raised by the Honourable Government House Leader, he does have a point of order. Beauchesne's Cita tion 409(2): "A

preamble should not exceed one carefully drawn sentence." * * * Mr. Speaker: I would ask the Honourable Member to please put his question. * (13: 55) Mr. Jack Penner: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I apologize to the House, if I was disruptive, for being disruptive. I did not intend to do this, because I think this issue is far too important to be disruptive. I just want to ask the Minister, the Minister of Agriculture-she was the one who negotiated a new agreement-how come the new commitment from the federal government has been decreased from $1. 5 billion annually to $1.1 billion under the new agreement? How come she agreed to that kind of reduction, and how come her share,

40 10 LEGI SLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 13 , 2000 or this province's share will also be accordingly reduced? How can she explain to farmers that they will have any confidence in this minister's ability to give assistance to them, and what kind of assistance can she promise under the new pro gram that she has negotiated? Hon. Rosano Wowchuk (Minister of Agriculture and Food): Mr. Speaker, I wonder if I get a choice on which one of those many questions I get to answer. I know the members opposite say we do not recognize how serious the situation for farmers is.

Indeed, we do recognize how serious the situation is, and that is why we organized an all party committee to go to Ottawa ju st after we were elected, which was something that the pre vious government refused to do. I am not quite sure what the Member was doing during our 50 hours of Estimates when he asks about whether this program is based on cash receipts or risks. I spelled out very clearly to him that our position was that the safety net program should be continued to be based on risk. The other eight provinces wanted it based on cash receipts, and the federal government sided with them.

The Member has quoted some numbers as to the amount of money that is available in the program and, on the reductions, the Member is wrong. There has not been a reduction in the amount of money that will be in place for Mani toba farmers. Flooding Agricultural Disaster Assistance Mr. Jack Penner (Emerson): Mr. Speaker, can the Minister of Agriculture then tell Manitoba farmers what programs will be in place, other than NIS A and crop insurance, to give them some assurance of disaster assistance in times like we are experiencing today?

What program has she negotiated, and how many dollars are in it, other than the crop insurance and NIS A and the cash advance? Hon. Rosano Wowchuk (Minister of Agriculture and Food): Mr. Chairman, crop insurance and NISA and advance on crop insurance are very important programs, and those programs will continue in Manitoba. We will also have to have the new CFIP program which will be in place in Manitoba. This is the disaster assistance program. The amount of money available in that program is $435 million across Canada. Canadian Farm Income Program Flood Victims Mr. Jack Penner (Emerson): Mr.

Speaker, I think the Minister has just given us the assurance that I was talking about that she has, in fact, re negotiated a much lesser program than we had in place before. Mr. Speaker, will the Minister of Agri culture tell farmers whether the Canadian Farm Income Program, CFIP, I think they call it now, and it looks like a bit of a fip to me; what will the-[interjection] Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Jack Penner: What kind of assistance can victims of this flood and last year's flood expect out of the new program as individuals? What kind of assistance are you going to of fer them under this new program?

Give us some details on this program. Hon. Rosano Wowchuk (Minister of Agriculture and Food): Mr. Speaker, as I indicated to the Member previously, the CFIP program is a Canada Farm Income Program, and this program will help those farmers who have a reduction in their income. We hope that all farmers could get their income from the market place, as they would like to do.

However, when farmers, such as the people who are losing their income because of the flooding this year, see a decline in their income, they will have the opportunity to make application for this program and have their income covered if it falls below the 70 percent mark. * (14: 00) Canadian Farm Income Program Negotiations Mr. Harry Enos (Lakeside): Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the First Minister. During the period of time that I was privileged to speak for

July 13 , 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 40 11 Manitoba fanners and agriculture, on every occasion I went to Ottawa to negotiate on their behalf I came back with more money: more money for agricultural research and develop ment, $19 million, more money to improve our crop insurance program. My question to the First Minister: How did he authorize, why did he authorize his Minister of Agriculture to come back on her first meeting from Ottawa with a lower percentage of money for Manitoba farmers from Ottawa? Ron. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr. Speaker, this minister (Ms.

Wowchuk) came back from Ottawa after her first meeting with a new crop insurance plan that covered unseeded acres that was not covered by members opposite. This Minister of Agriculture came back from Ottawa, working with the Saskatchewan Government and with the all-party committee, and eventually came back with a $10 0 million income program in terms of Manitoba and Saskatchewan. Mr. Speaker, I know the fonner minister of Agriculture and the present Minister of Agri culture all agree with the southwestern Manitoba producer that this is in fact a disaster, and those people are entitled to disaster assistance.

We supported the fonner minister of Agriculture. I really urge this Assembly to be united in speaking to Ottawa in a strong united voice, that those producers are entitled to disaster assistance and to do anything less is un-Canadian in tenns of this government. Mr. Enos: It may have been unfair of me to address a fonner union leader, leader of the party in the Government, a detailed question like that on agriculture, so I will direct my second ques tion to the Minister of Agriculture (Ms. Wowchuk).

Did or did she not come home from Ottawa signing an agr eement that considerably will reduce our share of future transfers of money from Ottawa with a change from the cash receipts to the risk program? She in fact said so in the House. Mr. Doer: The Member opposite may not be able to face the truth. The old saying is that you cannot handle the truth. The fact of the matter is, Mr. Speaker, that you did not have- Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order.

May I remind all honourable members of Beauchesne's Citation 16 8: When rising to preserve order or to give a ruling the Speaker must always be heard in silence. I would once again ask the co-operation of all honourable members. Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, this government was able to do what the fonner minister and fonner government was unable to do and that is to renegotiate a federal-provincial crop insurance program so unseeded acres of land will now be covered under crop insurance. I know the Mem ber opposite will praise silently our Minister of Agriculture for that success. Secondly- Mr. Speaker: Order.

The Honourable Member for Lakeside, on a point of order. Point of Order Mr. Enos: It is a point of order when deliberate misinfonnation is being put on the record by none other than the First Minister. Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Agriculture was in the audience in Brandon a year ago in July when I announced the unseeded acreage program that was approved by the then-directors of the Manitoba Crop Insurance. The records of the Manitoba Crop Insurance Program will say that they in fact adopted that program. It did not require any Ottawa approval. Do not give us that kind of hogwash. That is plain hogwash. Mr.

Speaker: Order. A point of order is a very serious matter. I would ask the co-operation of all honourable members. The Honourable First Minister, on the same point of order. Mr. Doer: On the same point of order, Mr. Speaker. This member and his government were in office for 11 years, and crop insurance was not changed until this government came into office. Those are the facts. Mr. Speaker: Order. On the point of order raised by the Honourable Member for Lakeside, the Member does not have a point of order. It is a dispute over the facts. * * * Mr. Speaker: The Honourable First Minister, to conclude his answer.

40 12 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 13 , 2000 Mr. Doer: To carry on with my answer to the question, I first of all mentioned the Crop Insurance Program. Secondly, Mr. Speaker, the Member opposite does not want to acknowledge the hundred miilion dollar income support pro gram that certainly was not in place when we came into office. That change was made under the leadership of this Minister of Agriculture (Ms. Wowchuk). Thirdly, if members opposite now are paying attention, the telephone rates in rural Manitoba are going up because of rate rebalancing.

The rates for the business com munity are going down. They had a chance to stand up for rural Manitoba, and they let the brokers control the decision to sell the phone system. Mr. Speaker: Order. The Honourable Member for Lakeside, on a point of order? Mr. Enos: No. A final supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: I had not recognized the Member who was standing, so I will recognize the Honourable Member for Lakeside with his final supplementary question. Mr. Eons: Mr.

Speaker, some of us recall, shortly after September 21, this group won the election, federal politicians, Ottawa saying. con gratulating themselves that it is going to be so much easier working with the new Manitoba Government. We can understand that. They are patsies for them. They leave money on the table, and they grandstand about help when no help was coming forward. When wiii this government-a simple question. You have said over and over again that the Manitoba share of the money is on the table. Spend it, Mr. Premier. Spend it. Goodness knows the farmers could use that $2 1 miilion right now.

Spend that $2 1 million right now and make that announcement. Hon. Rosano Wowchuk (Minister of Agriculture and Food): Mr. Speaker, certainly the people from the southwest part of the province have been through great difficulties with the losses that they had last year. We cer- tainly raised that issue with the federal govern ment. In fact, the federal government sent out a couple of press releases indicating that they were willing to participate in supporting the people of the southwest part of the province.

Unfor tunately, when we went to Ottawa, the federal government had indicated that they had no inten tion of putting any money into the southwest part of the province despite the fact that we had money on the table. We have made that commitment. The federal government has refused to do it. We have to remember that the responsibility for disasters is the federal government, and unfortunately Manitobans are not being treated the same way as the other disasters have been treated across the country by the federal government. * (14:10 ) Flooding Agricultural Disaster Assistance Mr.

Larry Maguire (Arthur-Virden): Well, Mr. Speaker, I note with interest that it is part of the Tory record of responsible spending that al lows the Government to have the dollars today that would be available to put into this kind of a program. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr.

Maguire: This government has also talked about a united front to go to Ottawa, and many times we have told them that if they would take half of the money from the program that they have identified for the farmers of western Mani toba and put it on the ta ble, this side of the House would be glad to go on another all-party delegation with them to Ottawa. Mr. Speaker, this morning the Prem ier told CJOB that his government, and I quote, his first priority is to stabilize the agricultural situation. For some producers, it can mean their whole existence.

I am sure that these statements will offer little comfort to farmers still trying to recover from that '99 flood.

July 13, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4013 Mr. Speaker: Order. The Honourable Govern ment House Leader, on a point of order. Point of Order Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I believe you will find that the Honourable Mem ber is now on his fifth sentence as a prea mble, and Beauchesne's Citation 409 says: "A

preamble need not exceed one carefully drawn sentence." Five sentences is not what the rules allow for. Mr. Speaker, would you please instruct him to put his question. Mr. Speaker: The Honourable Official Opposi tion House Leader, on the same point of order. Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (Opposition House Leader): On the same point of order, Mr. Speaker. I can understand the Honourable Government House Leader standing up for his damage control. I think that is the best way to put it. But all we are doing here is attempting to put clearly on the record the statements that the First Minister (Mr.

Doer) brought forward this morning, and that is what the Member was quoting from. Mr. Speaker: Order. On the point of order raised by the Honourable Government House Leader. he does have a point of order. Beauchesne's Citation 409(2): "A

preamble should not exceed one carefully drawn sen tence." *** Mr. Speaker: I would ask the Honourable Member to please put his question. Mr. Maguire: Mr. Speaker, can the Minister of Agriculture, given that they have been in power for I 0 months and have not spent a scrap of money for disaster in that part of the world, tell this House when this government will overcome its state of paralysis and finally take action to deal with the ramifications of that flood? Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister of Highways and Government Services): Mr. Speaker, I would like to indicate my apologies to the House.

I was in Churchill earlier for the earliest opening of the season in history, actually for the first ship to come into Churchill. I want to indicate, Mr. Speaker, in terms of the current emergency situation, I was in Headingley yesterday with the Member for Gimli (Mr. Helwer). We had an opportunity to meet directly with the municipality that has experienced some significant damage. It does appear, and I know from our discussion there will be some coverage required in that area. We now have seven resolutions. I say to the Member opposite we are cer tainly dealing with this in the same way as '97 and '99.

In fact, we have moved proactively to get out to the communities. In fact, I say to members opposite we are working very closely with the municipalities, including with Heading ley and others, and we are going to put in place the assistance that people in those areas are eligible for and need. Mr. Maguire: Mr. Speaker, it is amazing what the Government will take credit for when they will take credit for the weather. Will the Minister of Agric ulture (Ms.

Wowchuk), recognizing the long overdue need for the aid for the '99 flood victims of western Manitoba, today commit to putting their share of the money, that which I was talking about in my

preamble, on the table in order to get the flood recovery process started and then be prepared to deal with Ottawa to recover its share of the funding? Mr. Ashton: Mr. Speaker, you know, I think it is very important to put on the record, in terms of southwest Manitoba, the province-! say the taxpayers of the province of Manitoba, not a particular political party, have already put $70 million on the table, more than $20 million which is stand-alone. So, in fact, the Province of Manitoba has $20 million that has been on the table since last year.

The federal government has consistently refused to come in with assi stance over and above the damage for lost property, which is going to be approximately $23 million. It is the

40 14 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 13, 2000 federal government that has said no. It has been the province that has had the money on the table. I say to the Member opposite I am disappointed that, once again, instead of putting the pressure on Ottawa where it lies, he tries to blame the provincial government. The Province of Mani toba's money is on the table. Mr. Maguire: Mr.

Speaker, will the Minister of Agriculture indicate to this House that the pro gram that they put forward, $43 million for lost farm inputs, would amount to $6 an acre on the 3.4 million acres that were impacted by the disaster last year and that her government thinks that that is too much for them to put on the table for those farmers in southwest Manitoba? Mr. Ashton: Mr.

Speaker, I am extremely disappointed with the Member opposite because, of the $43 million that we identified in corres pondence with the federal government when they designated the area as being eligible under OF AA, $7 million of that has already been expended by the provincial government. I say to the Member opposite it would be a heck of a lot easier in this province if the mem bers opposite when they were in government had not drained $340 million out of the Fiscal Stabilization Fund in two years.

We are left with the situation where we cannot, in a province the size of this province, I think, allow the federal government to get off from the responsibility it has for disasters for 90 -10 funding. I say, given the circumstances in Manitoba just this past week, our position in demanding that the federal government live up to its responsibilities is a responsible position, and I am disappointed in members opposite. We need those resources for everyone in this province. The way to get it is put pressure on the federal government. Health Care Facilities Food Services Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr.

Speaker, the Prov incial Auditor revealed this week the extraordinary waste of millions of dollars of taxpayers' money in the frozen food fiasco. Day by day the continuing indecision of the present government continues to waste money and provide poor-quality service. For nine and a half months we have heard that the Minister of Health is cooking up a fix to the pro blem. Some cook, some fix. I ask the Minister of Health: When will he have a solution to the frozen food fiasco in Manitoba? Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Health): Mr.

Speaker, careful reading of the Auditor's report would indicate that the course of action we chose is the correct one. The timeliness, rushed decision making, proceeding before reports were in were all cited. Moving to I 00% outsourcing before reports were in and not listening to advice were all cited as reasons for the fiasco, the terrible fiasco of frozen food.

I am surprised that the Member opposite, who during the election campaign campaigned about maintaining frozen food for the next few months, would now reverse his position and say to us, oh, go against the recommendations of the Provincial Auditor. who said what is being done by having clinicians and dieticians study the process is the correct process. We would have loved to have had a process a long time ago, but clearly the Auditor's report indicates we are following the right course of action. Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, after nine and a half months of cooking, the eggs are rotting-some odour. Mr.

Minister, when are you going to clear the situation in Deer Lodge which we in fact said we would review quickly and act upon it? You have not. Mr. Chomiak: I think the Member for River Heights has scrambled his position from what he said during the campaign. But, Mr. Speaker, I visited Deer Lodge. As I said at the time, we could have moved on Deer Lodge almost immediately, but that would have been the same kind of mistake that was made previously: to make decisions before it was thoroughly studied throughout the system.

I met with patients from Deer Lodge and I said to the patients: Will you allow us the time to study it? They said: Proceed on that basis because we want it done right. Not like was done over the past five years when studies were not followed, when consultants' re ports that were paid for were not followed, when decisions were rushed.

July 13 , 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 40 15 We put in place a committee and group to study it that will provide a proper context to re view this disastrous decision that cost the tax payers tens of millions of dollars. We are going to live up to our commitment to those people. * (14: 20) Mr. Gerrard: My supplementary to the Premier who commented within days of the election that he would have the frozen food out of Deer Lodge within a few weeks. I ask the Premier to apologize for failing to fulfill his commitment in nine and a half months. Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr.

Speaker, I cannot believe the Liberal Leader, whose caucus in this Legislature and his position in the elec tion was to support the frozen food. When we were out there speaking on behalf of the patients, the Liberals were nowhere to be seen, nowhere to be seen. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. The Honourable Member for River Heights, on a point of order. Point of Order Mr. Gerrard: My point of order, Mr. Speaker, is this: That the Premier should answer the ques tion rather than trying to impute incorrect statements to myself and my party. Mr. Speaker: Order.

The Honourable First Minister, on the same point of order. Mr. Doer: On the same point of order, Mr. Speaker. When people are walking around handing out demands for apologies and they have absolutely done a 360, or changed their position totally from the election to after the election, that is what adds to the cynicism of the public. Perhaps he should apologize for his wrong-headed decision and position in the last election campaign. Mr. Speaker: The Honourable Official Opposi tion House Leader, on the same point of order. Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (Opposition House Leader): On the same point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Beauchesne's 41 7: "Answers to ques tions should be as brief as possible, deal with the matter raised and should not provoke debate." Mr. Speaker, if the Liberals did not live up to their promise on the frozen food fiasco, neither did the NDP on their promise of gam bling. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. On the point of order raised by the Honourable Member for River Heights, it is not a point of order. It is a dispute over the facts. *** Mr. Speaker: The Honourable First Minister, please conclude your answer. Mr. Doer: Mr.

Speaker, we were very, very opposed to the frozen food, and we were extremely critical of the previous government. I am glad that the word "fiasco" has now been confirmed by all sides of the House. It took a long time, and I want to thank the Opposition House Leader for that wonderful conversion on the road to Damascus. It is a wonderful day. We promised, Mr. Speaker, to open up the contract, and we have done that. The mortgage that was the responsibility of the taxpayers be fore is now in the control of the taxpayers in a more direct way. Secondly, we promised to halt the expansion of the food services to St.

Boniface and Health Sciences Centre, and that has been done. We said we would not build new personal care homes with this frozen food. We have not built any new personal care homes with the frozen food. Fourth, we promised to cancel the frozen food, in consultation with the resi dents and the families of Deer Lodge. We are working with the residents. They have got some very good ideas of how we can replace the double-blanched vegetable fiasco of the former government with some home cooking.

I know they are talking about different breakfast alterna tives at Deer Lodge hospital, and we are very confident that, within a year of the election, all four commitments on the frozen food fiasco that we made in the election will be delivered on. Mr. Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired.

4016 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 13, 2000 MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE Provincial Flooding Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (Opposition House Leader): Mr. Speaker, I would seek leave for us to move a motion that the ordinary business of the House be set aside to discuss a matter of urgent public importance, namely the need for debate of the multitude of problems arising from two years of flooding and excess moisture con ditions in a wide range of areas of the province, including the city of Winnipeg. Hon.

Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): Well, the question, of course, MUPis are to be raised after grievances. I ask the Op position House Leader this question: Was there not notice provided within the 90 minutes before we came in here? Mr. Laurendeau: Mr. Speaker, that is why I had the conversation with the House Leader's special assistant. It is not 90 minutes. I thought it was 90 minutes as well, but I would have had to have the confirmation at 8:30 this morning. I was not aware of that. I found out at nine o'clock, after that time had expired. That is why I am seeking leave. * (14:30) Mr.

Speaker: I must advise the House that because I have not received the required notice of 90 minutes prior to the start of the sitting day, as required by Rule 34(1 ), unanimous consent of the House will be required in order for the motion to be brought forward. Is there unani mous consent of the House to allow the motion to be brought forward? [Agreed} Unanimous consent has been granted for the motion to be brought forward. Mr. Jack Penner (Emerson): Mr. Speaker, I would then move, seconded by the Member for Arthur-Virden (Mr.

Maguire), THAT the ordinary business of the House be set aside to discuss a matter of urgent public importance, namely, the need for a debate of the multitude of problems arising from the two years of flooding and the excess moisture conditions in a wide-ranging area of the province, including the city of Winnipeg, and the need for a com prehensive plan of action for this government to tackle implications of the flooding and excess moisture conditions, including the impact on the agricultural community, businesses and indivi dual homeowners. Motion presented. Mr.

Speaker: Before the motion can be considered by the House, according to subrule 34(2), I will recognize the mover of the motion and one member from the other parties in the House to speak for five minutes each to explain the urgency of debating the matter today. The remarks on urgency should relate to the urgency of the immediate debate and not the subject matter of the motion. I will now call upon the Honourable Mem ber for Emerson to speak to the urgency of the motion. Mr. Jack Penner: Mr. Speaker, I appreciate being allowed to put comments on the record of the urgency of the motion.

When I toured part of the province a few days ago and I talked to many of the farmers who were affected by the severe flooding, I found that water was up to a foot and a half deep crossing some of the roads that we tried to get into some of the farm places. I saw cows standing up to their bellies in water, and I saw the hay bales, their feed supplies, floating down stream in up to three and four feet of water. I saw the hay supplies that were drifting down stream, and I saw the soggy fields of the potato fields in the southeast area.

I saw last year the need for the assistance to ensure that farms and farm families would have money in the near term to ensure that their kids would have food on the table and that there would be subsistence provided to those families that they might in fact be able to operate while this disaster is forcing many of them to flee their homes and give up their incomes. One has to only experience this kind of a disaster oneself to realize how large an economic impact this kind of a disaster has.

July 13, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 40 17 I would urge this House to strongly adopt the motion, that we in fact show the kind of support to these farm families and the imme diacy of the requirement to bring some assis tance to those farm families. That is the reason why I ask that the urgency of this matter be, in fact, considered by yourself in determining whether we should or should not debate this motion.

I believe that there are many businesspeople in communities such as La Broquerie, indeed, communities such as Hartney and many other small communities, including the city of Bran don, that will feel the severe econ omic impact of what we are seeing today. Seven inches of rain in a few days can cause a tremendous amount of upheaval in small communities. I believe that the ministers today and yesterday have gone out themselves to witness the devastation that is going on, and I believe that the importance of immediately dealing with this matter in this Chamber cannot be overstated. So, therefore, I ask you, Mr.

Speaker, whether you will truly consider that this is indeed an urgent matter and should be debated imme diately in this House so that both sides of the House can voice their opinions on this matter. Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister of Highways and Government Services): Mr. Speaker, I want to indicate, first of all, that we certainly take seriously this matter. In fact, as the Member opposite indicated, I had the opportunity to visit one of the affected areas yesterday along with the Member for Gimli (Mr. Helwer), who is the opposition critic. I know my colleague the Mini ster of Agriculture (Ms.

Wowchuk) has also taken that initiative. In fact, we will both be con tinuing to do that. I plan on visiting a number of the affected areas again tomorrow. I wanted to indicate that, because we have had the oppor tunity to talk first-hand with affected areas, and I want to indicate to members opposite that cur rently there has been some significant localized damage. We have received resolutions now from seven municipalities for disaster financial assis tance.

I want to indicate that those municipalities have indicated to us-when I say us, certainly EMO-some of the pr eliminary information in regard to the disasters. But I can indicate we have been very proactive on that. In fact, it is a matter of some urgency. I want to indicate to members opposite that, following this first stage, as members know, it is the process in terms of disaster financial assistance, we are currently working with muni cipalities to get the specific reports on damage.

We have received some preliminary information, and it varies quite significantly across the dif ferent areas that have been affected. I want to note for the record, Mr. Speaker, that Lac du Bonnet, Beausejour, Hanover, Macdonald, Springfield, Stuartburn, and Brokenhead are the R.M.s that have submitted resolutions. We believe, including the seven, there may be as many as sixteen R.M .s, and I can indicate our staff at EMO is working very closely with the municipalities. * (14: 40) We are certainly prepared to discuss the matter in the House. We are particularly watching for current weather conditions.

As members opposite can apprecia te, as was indi cated to us in Headingley yesterday, one of the reasons we have had this particular circumstance has been a combination of accumulated moisture combined with some very specific weather events. In Headingley, they indicated, I think, in the space of one hour, there were five inches of rain in that area. Given the flatness of the terrain and the moisture levels and the soil, it has obviously had a significant impact.

I do want to indicate, in addition to being willing to discuss this matter in the House, we are certainly prepared to continue to share in formation and work with members of the Opposition. I appreciated the opportunity to go out yesterday with the Member for Gimli (Mr. Helwer). I can indicate that if members opposite, and I made this offer yesterday, wish to have . more detailed specific briefings on the specific circumstances in any of the R.M.s, or all of the R.M.s, that information can and will be made available. For that reason, we will certainly support the debate.

We do take this matter very seriously, and I can indicate in the same spirit that we are

40 18 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 13 , 2000 supporting the debate. We certainly will work with members on all sides of the House to do what is most important here, Mr. Speaker, and that is to get out there and provide assistance to those who have received damage under this. Early indications are that we will indeed be in a position of providing assistance under OF AA because there has been some significant property damage, both public and private, and in fact, we are working, as I said, on an hourly basis, working in very close contact with the first line of contact on emergencies, the R.M.s.

So, with those few words, we are certainly prepared on our side to debate this matter in the House and to continue to work for whatever we can do, Mr. Speaker. I certainly speak as mini ster for disaster assistance here, and I know my colleague, the Minister of Agriculture (Ms. Wowchuk), we have been out there seeing what programs, in this particular case OF AA, would be applicable under my own department. And I can indicate a number of municipalities will most likely have some fairly significant assis tance coming, ju st based on preliminary infor mation.

That is subject. obviously, to the following information from municipalities, but given the amount of damage that has occurred in some municipalities, that would be the early indication. I will give further reports to the House as we receive that information. Mr. Speaker: I thank the honourable members for their remarks on the urgency of the motion brought forward. In lieu of the requirement for filing notice of the motion, the House has granted unanimous consent.

The second con dition that must be satisfied in order for the debate to proceed is that debate on the matter is urgent and that there are no other reasonable opportunities to debate the matter. I would note that questions on the subject matter could be raised during consideration of the concurrence motion at the conclusion of departmental Estimates. In addition, members could raise a grievance or bring forward an Opposition Day motion. However, in spite of these procedural shortcomings, I note that there is a willingness to debate this matter today.

Beauchesne's Citation 38 7, as well as past rulings of Manitoba Speakers, takes this into ac- count. I will then put the question to the House: Shall the debate proceed? [Agreed] Given that matters of urgent public impor tance are to be considered after grievances, I will call members' statements and grievances before recognizing members to speak on the MUPI . MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Mennonite History Mr. Harry Schellenberg (Rossmere): Mr. Speaker.

I want to take this opportunity to brief ly reflect on the story of the Mennonites' set tlement in Manitoba and the 12 5th anniversary celebration of Mennonite settlement that is scheduled for this weekend. The Mennonite story in Manitoba begins when the Russian imperial government began to revoke the many social and religious freedoms enjoyed by the Mennonites. Interpreting this as a threat to their beliefs, old colony Russian Mennonites began to seek new lands that would respect their desire for religious freedom. With the promise of certain privileges. the Canadian government welcomed Mennonite set tlers.

In August of 18 74, the first group of Men nonite pioneers arrived in Winnipeg and pre pared themselves for settlement on the west reserve near Emerson. With their agricultural experience, pioneer spirit and strong sense of community, Mennonites were able to endure harsh winters in primitive shelters and to overcome the hardships of a new environment in a new world. On Sunday, July 16 , at Fort Dufferin, the Mennonite community plans to celebrate the !2 5th anniversary of Mennonite beginnings in the west reserve with an afternoon of singing, meditation and dramas.

This cele bration gives Mennonites an opportunity to not only celebrate the history of their culture but also to recognize the strength of Manitoba's pluralistic society. A true plural society, it is said, becomes a definite and highly conscious art, and in Manitoba, where it is difficult not to meet someone with a unique language, culture or history, we have begun to master that art.

July 13, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 40 19 From their Anabaptist beginnings in Switzerland, Holland and Germany, the Men nonite story continues to be written. I look forward to this weekend's celebration of Mani toba's chapter. Lastly, we thank Canada for al lowing us to be part of this great country. Thank you. Agricultural Disaster Assistance Mr. Jack Penner (Emerson): It is high time, I believe, that the Government take some action on behalf of the province's agricultural com munity.

For the last half year, we have repeatedly called on them to keep their commit ments to agriculture and to provide meaningful assistance to the producers of the western part of the province who have suffered through flooding last year, and they have done nothing in this regard. We are now well into the next farming sea son and another disaster is upon us. States of emergency have been declared in five munici palities, and farms throughout the southeast are feeling the disastrous results of the last few weeks of heavy rainfall. Excessive water levels have claimed basements, barns, fields.

Once again, many Manitoba farmers are facing the twin enemies of natural disasters and low commodity prices. The Minister of Agriculture (Ms. Wowchuk) needs to start taking this very seriously. The NDP Government has a responsibility to Mani toba farmers, and it is time they acted like it. I can only hope that they do not let our agriculture community down two years in a row. Mr. Speaker, I believe this matter needs to be truly considered by this government and that some heart needs to be put into the decision making process of this government.

Clearly, so far, this government has not demonstrated any feeling at all for those people who suffered last year from flooding. I believe that it is high time that what the Premier (Mr. Doer) said today on CJOB needs to be reinforced by taking the money that he said off the table and putting it in the hands of the farmers he has talked about. Constantly, they have talked about this money being on the table and in place for the disaster that occurred last year and blaming the federal government.

It is high time now that the Premier started writing the cheques to the producers of their portion of this province's portion of that money and that that money then go to the farmers, thereby demonstrating a heart for the people who have suffered. Henri Bergeron Ms. Linda Asper (Riel): Monsieur le president, j'a imerais souligner le deces de M. Henri Ber geron, un communicateur francophone par exellence, ce lundi le 10 juillet. II est mort au Pavilion Saint-Luc a Montreal des suites d'un cancer. Ses funerailles ont eu lieu a Montreal ce matin meme. [Translation} Mr.

Speaker, I would like to announce the death of Mr. Henri Bergeron, an excellent francophone communicator, this Monday, July 10 . He died at the Pavilion Saint-Luc in Mont real, of cancer. His funeral took place this morning in Montreal. [English} Mr. Henri Bergeron was an important and prominent Franco-Manitoban. He still has family here in Manitoba, and to them we would like to offer our sympathies. M. Henri Bergeron est ne dans le petit village de Saint-L upicin au Manitoba dans Ia region de Ia montagne Pembina. II a fait ses etudes au College de Saint-Boniface pour en suite devenir journaliste.

II est devenu le premier annonceur de la premiere station de radio de langue fran�aise dans l'Ouest canadien, CKSB Saint-Boniface. En 19 49, il demenageait au Quebec, comme animateur et directeur des emissions a Hull. C'est Henri Bergeron qui fut en 19 52 le premier animateur de television au Canada. Au cours des 33 annees suivantes, i1 a passe 18 ans, entre autres, a animer l'emission "Les beaux di manches." A sa retraite, M. Bergeron s'est consacre a Ia formation dans le domaine des communications et a l'ecriture. II a consacre sa vie aux

4020 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 13, 2000 communications et a sa langue. II merite qu'on reconnaisse sa contribution aux communications en fran(j:ais dans notre pays. Les parents de Norwood dans Ia circon scription de Saint-Boniface ont bien voulu reconnaitre !'importance de M. Henri Bergeron en nommant une ecole dans leur quartier !'Ecole Henri-Bergeron. Merci, Monsieur le president. [Translation] Mr. Henri Bergeron was born in the little town of St. Lupicin in Manitoba in the Pembina Hills region. He studied at College de Saint Boniface and then became a jo urnalist.

He became the first announcer of the first French language radio station in the Canadian west, CKSB St. Boniface. In 19 49, he moved to Quebec as a host and director of programming in Hull. It was Henri Bergeron who, in 19 52, was the first television host in Canada Over the following 33 years, he spent 18 years, among other things, hosting the program "Les beaux dimanches." Upon his retirement, he devoted himself to training in the communications area and to writing. He dedicated his life to communication and to his language.

He deserves recognition for his contribution to communications in French in our country. The parents of Norwood in the St. Boniface constituency wished to recognize the importance of Mr. Bergeron by naming a school in their neighbourhood !'Ecole Henri-Bergeron. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Gertrude Jasper Mr. Larry Maguire (Arthur-Virden): It gives me great pleasure to rise today to pay special tribute to a special person, to one of my con stituents who recently was inducted into the Manitoba Agriculture Hall of Fame. Ms. Gertrude Jasper of Hartney was inducted into the Hall of Fame this past Tuesday, July 11 , 2000.

Ms. Jasper, who is celebrating her 98th birthday this year, is a well-deserving individual and one who demonstrates a hard work ethic. While raising three children and farming with her husband in the southwestern comer of Manitoba, Ms. Jasper always found time to bring the issues of the farming lifestyle to light. Ms. Jasper was a representative to the Canadian Federation of Agriculture and also attended the United Nations as a delegate from the Canadian Federation of Agriculture.

She served tirelessly with the Council of Women for nine years, lobbying federal and provincial cabinets to improve conditions for agriculture, women's rights and educational facilities. Always a lover of flowers and home beautification, Ms. Jasper joined the Hartney Horticultural Society and became a provincial director for 15 years, also serving a term as president for the Manitoba Horticultural Asso ciation. She was often called upon to ju dge flower shows. Ms. Jasper was also a director of the International Peace Garden for 16 years.

She was also extremely active in her own community, serving in volunteer roles in her church and community groups. In 19 92, Ms. Jasper received the Premier's Volunteer Service Award. Mr. Speaker, I commend Ms. Jasper on her commitment to agriculture and to her province. Thank you. * (1 4:50) Winnipeg Folk Festival Ms. Nancy Allan (St. Vital): I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate the Winnipeg Folk Festival on the outstanding success of their 27th annual event last weekend.

This internationally recognized festival attracted the second largest audience in its history, despite the less than optimum conditions of the grounds because of a record rainfall on Thursday night.

I would like to take this opportunity to recognize the core staff for their year-long commitment and dedication, and the success of this year's festival: Trudy Schroeder, the General Manager; Pi erre Guerin, the Festival Producer; Linda Freed, Director of Development; Barbara Hiebert, the Volunteer Manager; Linda Cubbidge, the Communications Manager; Phil Beaulieu, the Technical Director; Arwene Helene, the Production Manager; Dianne Little,

July 13 , 2000 LEGI SLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 402 1 the Acting Manager of Finance and Admini stration; Dianne Smith, Performer Services Ad ministration; Eric Unwin, the Acting Manager of Home Made Music; and Ron Lindsay, Festival Tents. I would like to pay tribute to the volunteers who are the heart and soul of the festival. I would like to thank the board who volunteer their time and their leadership all year. I would like to thank the 15 00 volunteers who did a su perb job.

This was the first year in their 27-year history that the tarp run had to be postponed until five o'clock in the day because of the wet weather on the grounds to try to allow the ground to dry, and the volunteers did a pheno menal job under extreme circumstances. Bravo to Brenda Douglas, former volunteer, former crew co-ordinator, and former chair of the board, who was recognized with a Volunteer Service Award. Bravo also to CBC. who received their Volunteer Service Award for their long-standing commitment to the Festival, starting out 27 years ago with a $1 6,000 grant to launch the Festival.

Finally, a fond farewell to a long-time volunteer and friend of the Festival, Sandra Deagle, whom we lost recently after a courageous battle with cancer. Her courage was an inspiration to us all. House Business Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, I wish to announce that the Law Amendments Committee will meet on Wednesday, July 19 . at 10 a. m., to consider Bills 8, 10 , 13, 22, 23. 24, 26, 27, 28, 30 and 40. Mr.

Speaker: It has been announced by the Honourable Government House Leader that the Law Amendments Committee will meet on Wednesday, July 19 , 2000, at 10 a. m., to consider the following Bills: 8, 10 , 13, 22, 23, 24, 26, 27, 28, 30 and 40. Committee Cha.nges Mr. Gregory Dewar (Selkirk): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Member for Wellington (Mr. Santos), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Public Utilities and Natural Resources, which will meet on July 17 at 7 p.m., be amended as follows: The Pas (Mr. Lathlin) for St. Boniface (Mr. Selinger); Inter lake (Mr. Nevakshonof

t) for The Maples (Mr. Aglugub); Dauphin-Roblin (Mr. Struthers) for St. James (Ms. Korzeniowski). Motion agreed to. Mr. Peter Dyck (Pembina): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Honourable Member for Emerson (Mr. Jack Penner), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Public Utilities and Natural Resources, now this is for Monday, 7 p.m., be: Emerson for Arthur-Virden (Mr. Maguire); Minnedosa (Mr. Gilleshammer) for Charleswood (Mrs. Driedger); Ste. Rose (Mr. Cummings) for Fort Whyte (Mr. Loewen); Gimli (Mr. Helwer) for Springfield (Mr. Schuler). Motion agreed to.

MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE (Continued) Provincial Flooding Mr. Speaker: We will now proceed with the consideration of a matter of urgent public impor tance brought forward by the Honourable Mem ber for Emerson. I would just like to remind members that the time limit for speaking on a matter of urgent public importance is 10 minutes. I will now recognize the Honourable Member for Emerson. Mr. Jack Penner (Emerson): Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

You know, when the rains started falling after most of the forecasts were for a drought in southern Manitoba this year, most of the long-range forecasts, and most of the long-range forecasts were for a very dry mid western United States, many of our farmers looked at themselves and said, this spring, I wonder if it will be worth putting a crop in this spring, because if you have a prolonged drought, the crop insurance coverage levels that we have today will not nearly come close to covering even a portion of the input costs. When the rains started falling, Mr.

Speaker, most of the farmers said, you know, this is the

4022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 13, 2000 first sign and an indication that we are going to have a good crop this year. Then, when the rains started continuing to fall, first at six inches, then at eight inches, then at twelve inches, and then some areas fourteen and seventeen inches, it became very evident that the devasta tion that was being caused would be far greater than maybe even a significant drought would have been for some individual producers. It is not everybody, Mr. Speaker, who is suffering through these large heavy downpours.

It is those people who farm on a level plain area whose land is not rolling and can run off the excess moisture levels. It is those farmers who farm in those flatter parts of this province such as the Red River Valley or the eastern parts of this province and indeed much of western Manitoba is the make-up of. We all know that in southwest Manitoba, we call that pothole coun try. We expect some areas of that part of the province never to be seeded, because those are natural water-holding areas that our province, our aquifers, and all those kinds of things depend on.

Our wildlife depends on some of those water-holding storage areas. Everybody accepts that. Farmers have farmed that way in the south west part of the province for many years. In the southeast area, the southeast part of the province, almost just the opposite is true. We have in many areas of the southeast, in the R.M. of Stuartburn and the R.M. of Piney, many swamps. There is the Sundown swamp, there is the Minisino swamp, there is the Caliento swamp, the Caliento Bog, and a number of other smaller bog areas.

Again, these hold water throughout the year, and people or the provinces have guarded very jealously about draining these areas, because they provide water storage areas and recharge areas for our aquifers. However, many other areas of the province such as the Red River Valley, such as the area north of Stuartburn and other areas are relatively flat farmland, and that farmland depends on a good drainage system.

When that drainage sys tem either becomes overburdened by excess moisture levels and/or insufficient maintenance of either municipal, provincial or other drains, these farmers in those areas then face serious, serious problems, and the economic losses can not be overstated. I will just give you some of the numbers, although I am always warned by some not to use too many numbers. But the agricultural com munity and the agricultural economy has changed dramatically in the last number of years, last couple of years even.

When our fuel prices on farm went from 32 cents a litre in one and a half months to almost 50 cents a litre, that caused a dramatic change in cost. When fertilizer prices, because of the energy-based formulations in anhydrous ammonia and other fertilizers, ureas, changed by $10 0 and sometimes $15 0 a tonne additional cost. that changed the cost structure. When many of the other chemicals that are oil-based chemicals saw these kinds of increase in prices. the end result was that farm input costs rose dramatically over the last year. *( 1 5:00) At the same time. Mr.

Speaker, our revenues-and I often sit here and I wonder what some of our people who are employed in industry would say if their revenues dropped with the drops or rises in the agricultural com modities. If any one of our employees in this building would be asked to take a 50% decrease in their salaries, what would they say? How would they react? Yet farmers not only have taken a 50% decrease in salary, they have taken a 50% reduction in their total gross income. That is part of the problem that we face today.

When you have a cost of production of, let us say, $200 an acre and you farm a thousand acres of land, that means that your cost out of pocket before you have any reasonable chance of an income, before we have any reasonable chance of income, they have to invest $200,000, a quarter of a million dollars. I know that the Minister of Family Services (Mr. Sales) does not like to hear this, him being a former civil servant and one of the union organizers in this province, does not understand.

It just shows how crass in nature they really are, because they do not understand or do not want to understand the farm situation. They do not want to understand the situation of the food producers. This minister goes to the table every morning without being thankful for the food that he eats and now laughs at the situation and criticizes it. I think it is about time that the members of this government, this NDP administration under-

July 13 , 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4023 stand the nature of agriculture and how it functions and how important gross incomes are. I know that the Minister of Agriculture is the only one on that side of the House that truly would have some feel for the nature of the agri cultural community and agriculture in its entirety. Mr.

Speaker, it is important to note that when those kinds of costs are incurred, $200 an acre of gross input costs, without any reasonable ability at all to recover any of that investment in any given year when you have flooding like this, when you have a total crop loss on a farm, and some of these people do, and the Minister of Agriculture can verify that, because she went out and had a look yesterday and this morning herself. She knows what the situation is like on some of these farms. Some of the potato fields that she saw are a virtual disaster.

Without question there will not be a potato I do not believe harvested on that farm. That farmer will have input costs of some $600 an acre, because the seed itself is hugely expensive and all the equipment required to put that seed in the ground and the fertilizer, the prefertilization, the prechemical application and all that sort of stuf f that has to go in. That farmer probably has right now as we speak probably between $500 and $600 in the ground. If that person gets no crop at all, how long will the banks finance him? How long will the banks finance that operation?

Do you think they will go $10 00 an acre next year just on input costs? Do you think the banks will borrow him another $500? I think not. That is the urgency of this debate. Mr. Speaker, it is absolutely important that we recognize the huge investment that these farmers make. The only opportunity to recoup that investment or part of that investment is to grow a crop and to be able to sell that crop at a reasonable market value. First of all, the market values are not there. Now the rain has devastated the crop that was sown and destroyed it entirely.

I beg this House and I beg this Premier of this province and his Executive Council to give full consideration to the true hurt that is going on in this- Mr. Speaker: The Honourable Member's time has expired. Hon. Rosano Wowchuk (Minister of Agriculture and Food): Mr. Speaker, as you indicated when you were making a ruling on whether this should be a matter of urgent public importance, there have been many other options to raise this.

But I am very pleased that we are debating this whole issue this afternoon because I do believe that it is important to set the ordinary business of the House aside to talk about an issue that has come up quite quickly and one that is affecting many people. Mr. Speaker, the agriculture industry is a very important industry to the economy of Mani toba. There is a saying: As agriculture goes, so goes the economy. We have seen that. When agriculture has been in difficulty, there has been difficulty in the small communities, and truly the difficulties in agriculture do spill over into Winnipeg.

I know that one of the areas where you see that happening is in the farm machinery business. When agriculture is in difficulty, you see less purchase of farm, machinery, and that certainly has impacts on the urban economies as well, as well as food processing and many other areas that urban people often do not realize, that their jobs are derived from agriculture, and we have to have a healthy agriculture economy. I had the opportunity this morning to visit several places in the southeast part of the province, and certainly it is a very difficult situation there.

There is a lot of land, a lot of crop that has been soaked out because of excessive moisture. The pastures are quite wet, but a lot of the water has drained away, and I was very pleased to see that, although areas where livestock was in water and had no place to get onto higher ground, in the areas that I was in, that whole issue has been resolved. Although the pasture land is still very wet. The water has drained away. Certainly there has been a loss of hay.

We saw a lot of hay that will not be of any value, and farmers are looking to chop that hay up and spread it out over the fields in order that the second crop can grow. When I talk to farmers today, they were very hopeful that the weather is

4024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 13, 2000 going to tum around, the sun is going to shine. With the moisture that is there, although there will be some crop loss, they are hoping that it will end up having some very good crops this year in certain areas. Our big concern as government is the forecast that we are hearing right now and the possibility of rain coming in the next little while.

That is the reason that the departments of Con servation, Government Services and Agriculture are working proactively with communities and producers to determine what information or assistance individuals or communities require. You have to take that proactive step to be ready should there be further disasters. We have to also look at the programs that are in place at the present time. Cer tainly I know that there are going to be a lot of claims on crop insurance, and in fact, to date, there has been a total of 270 crop insurance claims across the province.

One hundred of those have come in just in the last week. So you can anticipate that there is going to be a lot of crop loss. * (15:10 ) When I was in the southeast part of the province this morning, a couple of the points that were made with me was people are not looking for cash payments from the government right now because obviously you do not even know what the damage is. What people are asking us to look at is long-term solutions. They pointed out various areas where there had been plans for drainages.

In fact, they talked about a very large drainage in the R.M. of Springfield that was planned, but in the '90s the project got cancelled. Although the municipality put their money in place, the money from the province, and I am not sure about the details of the program, whether there was federal money involved as well, that money did not come through. So those drainages were not completed.

Certainly the Member for Emerson stated very clearly that it was his government that made cutbacks to the Department of Con servation and cutbacks in funding that resulted in drainages not being cleaned out and drainages not being maintained, and, as a result, there are a lot of drainages where water is not flowing away properly. So, Mr. Speaker, that is a very serious problem and one that is very important to this region and one where there has to be a lot of long-term work done.

The issue of drainage is not going to be solved overnight, but by working together I hope this issue can be resolved, so that should this kind of situation arise again, that over time there will be a much better drainage system than is in place right now. When the Member was speaking, he talked about some of the issues in the southwest part of the province, and earlier today we had dis cussion about the southwest part of the province and the difficulties that are there and the lack of disaster assistance for that area. I think we should remember, Mr.

Speaker, that we do have a resolution on the books-it has been sitting for some time-that the members of the Opposition ref used to pass. If they would have helped us by passing that resolution before we went to Ottawa, I am sure it would have carried some weight to show that we had all-party agreement on this matter. Mr. Speaker, when I speak about drainage, as well, I think we should also note that there is a water rights bill that is on the Order Paper right now and one that people from southwestern Manitoba would certainly like to see passed, that they can have some of their water issues resolved.

It will have impacts on the other parts of the province as well. Again, Mr. Speaker, the members opposite are not letting that bill move forward despite the fact that it is very important for municipalities to have that legislation put in place, so that they can work on drainage plans and do some planning that will help all producers. So, Mr. Speaker, the agriculture industry is very important to the economy of Manitoba, and I want to address an issue also raised by the Member who ju st spoke who said that members on this side of the House have no understanding of agriculture.

Well, I have to tell the Member that he is wrong. There is a tremendous amount of knowledge on this side of the House. I have to tell the Member that there are several people on this side of the House who have been involved in farm operations, who own their own farms and do have a recognition and an understanding of

Juiy 13, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4025 the industry in Manitoba. So I would encourage the Member to be cautious with the comments he makes when he says that the members on this side of the House do not understand agriculture. If these members did not understand agri culture, Mr. Speaker, I would not have had the kind of support that I have had from my col leagues when it comes to putting money in for the CMAP program and for other programs. Mr. Conrad Santos, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair Mr. Deputy Speaker, I am pleased to have the opportunity to say a few words on this matter.

I want to say that I would very much hope that we are going to have some good weather and that we are working together as departments to prepare, should the situation be come more difficult and there should be more rain. But municipalities have applied, have filed their resolutions declaring it a disaster in their area. There is a process in place within the Department of Agriculture. Now the staff of the Department of Agriculture is monitoring the situation very closely, and, certainly, we are going to be working with producers to ensure that their concerns are addressed. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, I want to say that we want to work on long-term solutions, and we are addressing the water situation in all parts of the province. Thank you. Mr. Leonard Derkach (Russell): I rise today to put some comm ents on the motion from the Member for Emerson (Mr. Jack Penner) because this is a very, very serious issue for farmers in the province of Manitoba. More specifically, this is becoming a very devastating issue for fami lies, the farm families, the women, the children, the farmers in the southwest part of Manitoba.

I note that we have in our gallery today the mayor of the community of Souris, and indeed this is a gentleman who understands the plight of people in the southwest comer of Manitoba and has been a fairly strong advocate in supporting the plight of those farmers in the southwest part of our province. I also represent a portion of that constituency which has been devastated for the second year in a row. I have listened carefully to the comments from the Minister of Agriculture. I fail to see what her comments have to do specifically with the situation that exists in the southwest part of our province. Yes, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, the Minister of Agriculture may be right about a situation that exists in southeastern Manitoba at the present time. But southeastern Manitoba had a history of being flooded, and the fact that there are issues with regard to drainage there have not been issues of today. They are issues that have been long-standing in nature. They are issues that have been ongoing for a long period of time. Point of Order Hon. Rosano Wowchuk (Minister of Agriculture and Food): On a point of order, I wonder if the Member could clarify.

The resolution that is put forward says that there is a need to debate a multitude of problems arising from two years of flooding and excess moisture conditions in a wide range of areas of the province, including the city of Winnipeg. The Member is indicating that this resolution is addressing the southwest part of the province. I would ask him to clarify if this is a resolution addressing all of the pro vince. Because if he has brought forward a resolution dealing with the southwest part of the province, that would not be the same situation.

If they were doing that, they should have actually passed the resolution that was on the books, not bring forward another urgent matter of public importance. * (15 :20) Mr. Deputy Speaker: Honourable Minister, that is not a point of order. Disputes over the facts are not points of order. * * * Mr. Derkach: My point, if the Minister would pay attention to what I said, she would under stand that I was talking about the narrow scope in which she addressed this huge issue, Mr.

4026 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 13, 2000 Deputy Speaker. She did not address the econo mics and the lack of assistance that this govern ment has put forward for the farmers in this province, specifically and especially to the farmers and the farm families, the women and the children of southwestern Manitoba. That is the issue that is most devastating in this province today. I recognize that people in southeastern Manitoba, that people in Winnipeg today are suf fering as a result of excess water and excess rain.

I remind this House that in 19 97, when the Red River flood was an issue for the entire province, the families of southwestern Manitoba loaded women, youth, men into buses and made their way into the city of Winnipeg and into the southern communities of this province to see what it was that they could do to assist with the disaster that was occurring in this province at that time. Today those same families who gave of themselves in 19 97 are asking themselves the question why it is that our governments have abandoned us. This is callous treatment.

I hesi tate to say this, but it is almost a situation of cruelty to the people of southwestern Manitoba. I have been in this House for 15 years. During that period of time, we have witnessed devastating events in all parts of this province: in 19 88, the fires of northern Manitoba; the floods in southern Manitoba. I believe it was 19 89 we had the floods in the Swan River Valley. The action of the pro vincial government was immediate during that period of time. I will not forget the issues of the Swan River Valley, when we attended to the needs of those people immediately.

Whether it was in the reconstruction of bridges and roads, there was significant monies flowed to the peo ple who were living in that region to alleviate their situation and their problems. Well, where are we today? The Minister of Agriculture keeps wringing her hands and keeps talking about the fact that this is Ottawa's pro blem, not mine. The people in this province do not care about the two levels of government arguing amongst themselves. I say to the Mini ster of Agriculture to put her money where her mouth is. Put the money on the table for the farmers of Manitoba, for the farm families.

The member for Dauphin-Roblin makes a smart remark from his seat about the plight of the farmers in southwestern Manitoba. I think that is offensive and that is shameful of a mem ber of this House to make a remark of that nature which reflects on the people of southwestern Manitoba. Mr. Deputy Speaker, this is a serious matter. I would challenge the members opposite to say that it is not a serious matter. Point of Order Mrs. Louise Dacquay (Seine River): On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I wonder if you would call the members on the other side of the House to order.

I am experiencing great dif ficulty hearing the Honourable Member for Russell. Mr. Deputy Speaker: All honourable members of the House, please listen to the debates. *** Mr. Derkach: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I do not take this matter lightly. I am speaking on behalf of those farm families who are experiencing hardship, who are experiencing stress, who are experiencing an enormous amount of pain during these days.

If members opposite do not believe me then I invite them to join me in my constituency or in the southwestern part of this province where we can sit down face to face with those farm families, with those men, women and young people, so that the Govern ment can indeed get a truer perspective of what is happening in that part of the province. There are fields in that part of the province which are not seeded for the second year in a row. There are incomes which were not realized last year and will not be realized in some instances again this year.

How long can those families endure that kind of hardship and that kind of pain? I do not take this matter lightly, because we as a government, if we were in government-now

July 13, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4027 the NDP are in government, it is their respon sibility to answer that challenge. If in fact there is an issue with Ottawa where there is today, we will join them in trying to make sure that we recoup the funding that is legitimate on behalf of Manitobans from the federal government. But let us not hold back the money that is owed to the people of Manitoba from the Pro vince. We owe it to them to pay them their money, to allow them to carry on with their lives. And I know members opposite there are not taking this as lightly as I said in my comments.

I know they are listening, and I know they have listened in the past. But sometimes politics interferes with good decision making, and I think this is the point. I asked the members opposite, and I asked the members of the Government, to take their responsibilities seriously, to pay the money that is owed to the farmers in the southwest part of our province for the disaster that occurred last year so that indeed these families can continue on with their lives. Mr. Deputy Speaker, this has an impact far beyond just the family. It has an impact on each and every community in that part of the pro vince.

These are proud people, but their pride is quickly vanishing because they see that they cannot fight this issue much longer. You cannot do it for two successive years in a row, especially when you couple that with such low commodity prices. These are our citizens. These are people that we have some responsibility for, and I ask this government to seriously consider or reconsider its position. Yes, if they in fact pay for the obligation they have, if they put that money on the table, we will join them in a march to Ottawa to make sure that the federal govern ment lives up to its responsibility as it duly should.

Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Mr. Scott Smith (Brandon West): Mr. Deputy Speaker, this issue is a matter of urgent public issue. I agree with some of the statements of the Member opposite. I have agreed with many of the statements from many of us in the House here. For anybody to point a finger, I think is a serious mistake, at any one person not believing that this is of the seriousness that it is here in Manitoba.

I know some of us and some members would like to say some people do not cross any lines, be it the Perimeter Highway in Winnipeg or the highways outside of Brandon or maybe the highways in Russell, to see outside areas. But, in fact, in this case, I think every single per son in this House has either been to an affected area in 19 99 or has seen the affected areas here in 2000. There are a few issues combining as one, as a few of the members opposite have mentioned before, and there is a need for long term solutions on this issue. Last year, 19 99, was a disaster in Manitoba.

It was a disaster, not only for producers and producers' families and the communities around those producers, but for the entire province of Manitoba. The business community, the jobs related to the business community in the larger urban areas here in Manitoba and the effects that it had on agriculture on that expansion out dol lar-wise into the communities, into the larger communities. I think everybody in this room would agree that it was certainly a disaster.

The only ones that do not agree with it seem to be the federal government. * (15: 30) The solution to the problem is I think what everybody would like to work toward and would like to see. In 19 99, the Province of Manitoba came up with substantial dollars through both the previous government and, in fact, carried on into the new government. The dollars have been put on the table.

Many dollars have been laid out, and I think the members opposite, I am not speaking for them, but would agree that the federal government has been quite negligent in coming forward with a commitment that I believe is seriously their commitment and a commitment, not only to the farmers and the producers, but to the rest of Manitobans. The hardships and the dollars that have been straight, bottom-line costs for all of Manitobans are huge. This government went through our Minister of Highways (Mr.

Ashton), through the Disaster Assistance, to try to recoup dollars and get dollars on the table by the federal govern ment, with little or no success. The MP from the Brandon area, the only Conservative MP to the coast, has brought it up in the House of Commons, asking whether they

4028 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 13, 2000 would consider looking at any type of funding agreement, whether they would look at 90-10 or 80-20 or a 50-50, the same that we have done. That has been of no success. In fact, it was over and over again by Mr. Eggleton and a few others that, no, there would be no dollars for the disaster assistance. Mr. Eggleton and a few others agreed that there was a disaster in Manitoba, which we all know, we do not have to be told that. Yet, when the Prime Minister was out, he did not seem to realize that his ministers had agreed that there was a disaster out here.

Now that to me is a significant piece that we should be looking at. We should be saying you have had ministers say it is a disaster here in Manitoba, you have come out and said, no, there is not a disaster in Manitoba, now obviously there is a little bit of problem in communications at the federal level. We know there is a disaster. The Minister stated there was a disaster from the federal level. Yet, the Prime Minister did not seem to realize that. He does now. Our Premier (Mr. Doer) made him fully aware of that, our Agriculture Minister (Ms.

Wowchuk) has made him aware of that, as has our Minister of High ways (Mr. Ashton). The dollars need to be put into the hands of the producers. We all agree on that. Some of the members previously had said spend, spend, spend-in their words. I am not sure if that is the best way to go. I think that these need to be negotiated. I understand fully the problems that families are having out there. They need the dollars now, but we need to look at the entire case in this matter.

We have put dollars on the table to get the feds to come out and belly up to the counter and say, yes, your dollars are there, our dollars are there, we are going to help the citizens here, not only in Manitoba but in Canada. I think that it is heading in the direction with the disaster that they have seen quite quickly announced in and around the Ottawa Valley to some of their pro ducers, that I think we may see a little bit more action, considering the federal election coming, on behalf of the federal government. It does not help the farmers today and it does not help them yesterday.

It does not keep the wolves away from them in forms of paying back dollars that they owe, but the extension of trying to overextend dollars that we do not have is probably not the solution to go with. The dol lars that have been put forward by the Province, $10 0 million, is substantial; $40 million from the Province of Manitoba is a lot of money. If we had an unlimited bank account or if we made our own money, I guess, it would be one thing, but we have to deal with the reality of balanced budgets. We have to deal with the reality of fiscal responsibility.

We have to deal with the reality that not only was there a disaster last year, that again it is looking like if we do not get a relief from the moisture that is coming and affecting some of the areas, although localized right now, we do not know what is going to happen in the next few weeks. In fact, I do not want it to be treated like it was last year. I think that we need to take steps quickly, which the Minister has been. He has been out with members opposite, the Member for Gimli (Mr. Helwer) as recently as yesterday, to see the impact.

So to say that this government or members on this side do not understand and do not relate to what the disasters are or the areas that they are in or the input costs the people are out is misleading in making any state ment like that. In fact, we do understand, members opposite understand. The members opposite understand realities of financing, I would hope. Over the last I 0 or 12 years, there may have been times where they had to make decisions based on not wanting to borrow more money than your revenue is allowing you to bring in.

I do not think we would want to spend every single dollar in a bank account, anyone of us on a personal level, without thinking ahead a little bit past tomorrow. What could happen if in fact there was a disaster again this year and then there was no bank, there was no money, there was nothing left to do but maybe sell off another Crown corporation to get some dollars in? And that is not an option. Quite frankly, I think, we all agree and we should all probably target and get it together a little bit like the members did opposite with going to Ottawa with the Member for Arthur Virden (Mr. Maguire).

They had a very good

July 13, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4029 display when they went to Ottawa. They had facts, they had figures, they had dollars. They presented a fine case and were not success�ul. But I think we have to get back to that. I thmk we have to all agree to disagree on some of the smaller specifics on ju st how quickly a reaction should happen. I think we should get it together on a bit of a-I hate to use the word "united" or "alternative"-but I think we need to simply look at this, look at who is responsible for the disaster that has happened in our province. It has hap pened in other provinces.

People have .got the money. Maybe it is in terms of there ts more voters in other areas. I know the Member opposite seems to be pointing out that we are responsible for the disaster. I disagree with that. I disagree strongly. We are not responsible for the disaster. I think we need to get together.

I think we need to focus our efforts, as opposed to pointing our fingers and mentioning one person has not had their rubber boots on to go out and see what the disaster is and in fact get together and try to really assist not only the farmers, the farm producers, the farm families, but the business community's effects and the people who are working in those business communities in the urban areas. I think we better focus a little bit more. We better all agree to disagree on some of the arguments that we have.

We better get a joint effort to actually do something about it instead of talking like the members opposite have been doing for quite a long period instead of actually focussing and going forward with some positives as opposed to the sky is falling. Many people that it does affect, the sky is falling. It is unfortunate. It is, I believe, not the way to go. I believe that the positive action that this govern ment has taken through our ministers has been nothing but positive. I think we are going in the right direction.

Maybe the heavy rainfall in the Ottawa Valley that we have seen in the last little while and the disaster that is actually hitting home for people in Ontario might go a lot further than we will in the disaster relief that I think will be coming. So with that, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I know we could all probably speak on this issue for hours. It is just a few words I would like to put on as comments that I have. Hopefully we can work together and work for a solution that is actually going to work for the people that are affected. Mr. Harry Enos (Lakeside): Well, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, I am still upset, seething, quite frankly, from what occurred at Question Period here a little while ago, the performance by our First Minister, the Premier (Mr. Doer), the Minister of Agriculture (Ms. Wowchuk).

It is going to make it difficult for me to keep the kind of moderate, reasonable approach that I always take to issues of great importance, and this is important. *( 1 5:40) The fact of the matter is that despite the grandstanding and the headlining and the travel ling to Ottawa and the visits with Minister Vanclief, our Minister of Agriculture has come home, signed the deal that gives Quebec farmers more, Ontario farmers more, British Columbia farmers more, Manitoba farmers less. That is the first time that has happened. That is the first time that has happened.

We have a Premier that does not know the difference. Mr. Premier, if I were to say to honourable members opposite that one of the proudest accomplishments that I had in the Walter Weir administration was the introduction of public automobile insurance, Autopac, I would suspect someone would think that maybe I was stretching the truth, as indeed I am. But for the First Minister to suggest that this government went down to Ottawa to negotiate unseeded acreage protection into our Crop Insurance pro gram is nonsense. Unseeded acreage protection in crop insurance has been available for 10 , 15 , 20, 30, 40 years.

An Honourable Member: So where is the problem then, Harry? Mr. Enos: I will tell you the problem. Again, you do not know Manitoba. The problem is, and this was the uniqueness about '99 and the south west, the problem at the southwest historically is not too much rain. That is why they never availed themselves of it. We are all human. We understand that. Only 7 percent or 8 percent of

4030 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 13, 2000 farmers in Manitoba bought crop insurance coverage for unseeded acreage, and they were mostly in the Red River Valley. The southwest did not have that problem. That is what made '99 such a unique situation. That is what made what happened in the southwest even more unique than what we called the flood of the century here in the Red River Valley, because the Red River Valley has a history of flooding. It floods vir tually every decade. It flooded in '50. It flooded in '74. It flooded in '86 . It flooded in '97. It has a history of flooding.

The history of the southwest is as a rule, lack of moisture. I do not blame any southwestern farmer for not having taken advantage of unseeded acreage crop insurance protection. Now had we had that in place it would have cert ainly helped in the situation. What particularly galls me is that the Minister, the now Minister of Agriculture (Ms.

Wowchuk), was in the audience at Brandon when I, among other things, announced initially the $50 support program per acre-that was in July of last year-and indicated that we would be bringing for the coming year the changes that would make unseeded acreage cover mandatory in the crop insurance program. She knows that. Her First Minister should know that, and they now attempt to make it appear that this is something that they brought on by themselves. I am a politician of some experience.

I know that we take licence and we stretch, we exaggerate the truth sometimes a little bit but that was ju st going a bit too far. Now the issue here again-and showing some leadership by the province, and quite frankly, the record is very clear. It was my privilege and my responsibility as a matter of fact to be the mini ster of Natural Resources in '89 when this province experienced its worst forest fires in a century. We had to move. We had to evacuate up to 40 000, 45 000 people mostly from the North and bring them into communities here in the south.

Many hospitable communities, including many communities in rural Manitoba, and for tunately Winnipeg accepted them. The cost of that operation was some $74 million. Mr. Deputy Speaker, $32 million was entirely the federal government's responsibility because it involved First Nations people. Did we quibble about paying that money? We did not quibble. We were helping people get out of harms way, out of smoke, out of fire. That $32 mill ion was paid by the provincial govern ment up front, and then we fought.

We had to fight for it the next 2.5 years to get the federal share and that was from a so-called friendly government, Conservative government. Remem ber our good friend Mr. Mulroney in Ottawa. We finally got it. Mr. Deputy Speaker, for the benefit of the Honourable Minister of Family Services (Mr. Sale), the '97 flood, the top payout value of flood damage that existed in '97 that was applied in other flood years was $35,0 00 per residency.

The floodwaters had not finished rising when the Filmon cabinet, the Conservative government raised those limits to $13 5,000 per family to give peace of mind to those residents who saw their houses damaged, totally damaged, to see those farm families who saw their houses damaged, something like that. That is what I call immediate acti on. Immediate action. Now, if there was bureau cratic-but everybody that was damaged, every body that had flood damage in the '97 flood knew within weeks what kind of compensation they were going to get.

There sits the Minister, my friend from Neepawa, the last minister of Natural Resources knows that that is a fact. Now, the fact that we had situations where we did not know whether people were going to rebuild or not, whether they were going to do that, and settlements were delayed, that, of course, happened, but people knew that support was there. Again, in many instances, substantial federal dollars had to be provided for the ring dikes that are being built around St.

Adolphe and for the improvement of the ring dikes in the other Red River Valley communities-a government that cares, a government that understands, a govern ment that has some understanding of rural Mani toba, does not sit on their butts. They get off and move and do the things. Mr. Deputy Speaker, in '99-it was about this time of the year. We had to wait as the situation, as the unbelievable situation unfolded in the southwest, and it became clear that thousands, thousands, indeed, upwards to a million acres were not going to be seeded. We waited ju st the

July 13, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 403 1 bare minimum time until the end of June, and the last seedable dates under Crop Insurance is about June 25, and on or about the first or second week of July-1 could be out, forgive me. I may be out by a week or two, but my Premier and a good number of my cabinet colleagues were making a public announcement in Brandon indicating that the farmers would receive, as soon as we could possibly flow it, an initial $50- an-acre cash payout for every unseeded acre that they could record. That program ended up costing some $60 million, $70 million.

I also remember what I said in Melita and on other occasions, that that was not enough, that that should be $60, $70, $80, $90 an acre, and I believed it, because that is the treatment that the Red River Valley farmers received, and this government has bounced the ball, blamed Ottawa. Pay out the money. Pay out the amount that the Province has committed themselves to, which is some $2 1 million. Pay it out now. It will help with the bill, and then fight with Ottawa. That is doing it in a responsible way, Mr. Deputy Speaker, and that is what has to be done under these circumstances. Hon.

Steve Ashton (Minister of Highways and Government Services): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to speak on this. I want to indicate it is important, I think, for mem bers opposite, in debating this resolution which covers a significant number of topic areas, to recognize what the current situation is with recent conditions in this province. I want to indi cate that we do have damage reported in 16 municipalities, and we currently have 7 which have submitted resolutions.

I want to indicate that basically we have been in contact, both as a government and through our staff, our fine staff at the Emergency Measures Organization, right from Day One in terms of the most recent occurrences. I want to reference, for example, Headingley, which is kind of a good example-and I am not trying to minimize what has happened in other areas, but I was out there yesterday with the Member for Gimli (Mr. Helwer). There was the combination of two factors, a wet summer and a significant amount of rainfall, five inches in about one hour.

I think members opposite can appreciate that that combination of circumstances create a great deal of difficulty in what is very flat terrain. There are reports of damage in that area, and I can indicate from talking to municipal officials there, talking to the reeve, the bottom line is we are going to be in very close contact. There may, indeed, be items that are covered under the existing program. * (15 :50) I want to indicate that in terms of other municipalities, as well, we have received some initial reports. We have not received detailed reports.

The process we are following, by the way, is the same process that is followed in all disasters, was followed by the previous government, and we will follow. The first ele ment of the response from the provincial government is to work with local municipalities on the immediate impact of the disaster. The second stage is to put in place compensation mechanisms, and we have a very developed system we are following in this case. So I want to put on the record that we have been acting both as a government and as a staff right from Day One.

I have encouraged muni cipal leaders-! talked to them yesterday-to make sure that local residents are aware of the guide lines, the DFAA guidelines. Basically, as members in this House will know, when an area is affected by a disaster, certain types of claims are possible, particularly in terms of property, that cannot be insured for the type of damage. That kind of damage to property is · covered whether it be public or private. The reports we have from the different municipalities range quite considerably in terms of the impact. In the city of Winnipeg, there has been damage to a number of residences.

Many of them are affected by clean water flooding, in fact, 216 , but no damage to public property. In Be ausejour and Brokenhead, unconfirmed re ports of basement damage and some crop damage, minor road washouts. In the R.M. of Cartier, we have received reports of flooding in 20 basements, minor municipal damage. R.M. of East St. Paul, we have been informed there is a resolution forth-

4032 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 13, 2000 coming. We have not received specific informa tion on the damages. The R.M. of Hamiota, the R.M. advised that one resident had reported damage to buildings because of a severe storm which I think the Member opposite will be aware of. A resolution may be forthcoming re questing OF A. No damage to public sector pro perty. R.M. of Hanover, resolution submitted to Emergency Measures requesting OF A. Some unspecified damage to public and private pro perty.

R.M. of Headingley, damage includes base ment flooding, surface flooding of land, including standing crops and erosion, public sec tor includes road washouts. They have received I 0 requests for disaster assistance, and the resolution has been passed and is being for warded to us. R.M. of La Broquerie has sub mitted a resolution. There is no known damage to the private sector, however, there has been a report of potential damage to a golf course, reports of standing crops and large washout on the public side, 70 minor reports of damage to sites in the public sector.

R.M. of Lac du Bonnet, which has also submitted a resolution, no damage to houses, potential damage to standing crops and four reports of minor damage to municipal sites. R.M. of Macdonald has submitted a resolution requesting DFA. We have no specific reports yet. R.M. of Portage Ia Prairie, unconfirmed reports of damage received to date, small washouts to roads. R.M. of Reynolds, priva te sector unconfirmed reports of damage. The same in terms of the public sector. R.M. of Ste. Anne may wish to extend its extension on the local declaration of emergency. We have not received specific reports on damage. St.

Fran�ois Xavier, private sector, several reports of damage to private residences, unspeci fied municipal. R.M. of Springfield, municipal officials are gathering information on the private sector. Public sector, 30 sites have been damaged. Nine indications of major damage in the R.M. of Springfield. R.M. of Stuartburn, no damage to homes, however, some crop damage. No municipal damage and some indications of damage in Peguis to roads and ditches, crops and pasture and some impact on basements. I wanted to give members that update because we will continue with our commitment to update members on a regular basis.

I also want to indicate to members opposite that I think it is important to recognize the importance of maintaining disaster assistance programs that will allow us to react to this kind of an emer gency. In fact, one of the key things we have raised in the context of both the '97 program and the '99 program is indeed the basic principle of federal, and I say, significant federal cost sharing for disaster assistance. I am disappointed, quite frankly, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, that members opposite continue, I think, instead of putting the pressure on the federal government, continue to try and make this an issue in Question Period or in debate in this Legislature. I say to members opposite and I say to the Member for Lakeside (Mr. Enns), who should I think know with his experience [interjection} The member says let us provide the help and go to Ottawa. I want to put on the record the circumstance that the previous government left this govern ment in.

You know, this was a government that had passed legislation, that set in place in legislation a requirement that the Fiscal Stabilization Fund be approximately $400 million, I believe. You know what the current level is? $18 4 million. You know how much money the previous government spent from the Fiscal Stabilization Fund? $340 million, some of which did go to disaster assistance. But you know what? The only disaster the Conservatives were concerned about the last couple of years when it came to the Fiscal Sta bilization Fund was the political disaster they were facing in September of 19 99.

I find it amazing that members opposite will get up and say, when it comes to disasters, well, we will just go to the Fiscal Stabilization Fund. They spent $340 million. most of which was on operating expenditures, in two years. They sold MTS. They spent it all in three years. I say to members opposite, and I particularly say to the Member for Arthur-Virden (Mr. Maguire), other members-and I know the people in Arthur-Virden are aware of the challenge that any government faces, like any farm and like any household does in terms of its own budget. I say to members opposite that we have, I think, a

July 13 , 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4033 consensus in this House. We have legislation that requires balanced budgets. Well, I say to members opposite when they say, well, put more money in, put more money in, if they had not drained the Fiscal Stabilization Fund, Mr. Deputy Speaker, we would have a lot more fiscal flexibility. We are trying to preserve a couple of things.

Our ability to react, and I say to the members opposite who spent like drunken sailors going into the election, they spent the money for their own political hides, when we are faced with a disaster as we are currently, we need the fiscal ability to react. To do that, we have to protect our own finances in this province, but we have to have support from the federal government to come across with its share.

I say to the members opposite, and I say this in sadness, because, you know, when we had the '97 flood and the '99 flood, we never had a debate like this, a partisan debate in this House initiated by members opposite. We had a united front. We went out as one province. We went out to the federal govern ment with a united front. I say to the members opposite they may score political points, but their actions have undercut our position in Ottawa.

I say to members opposite, when they sit down with their constituents, they may wish to explain why they spent the Fiscal Stabilization Fund, $340 million, in three years and why they would rather raise political points in this House than the traditional approach in this House. So we followed in opposition. We supported a joint effort, a united effort, an all-party effort, and I say to members opposite it is still not too late on the current situation. Please, put the interests of Manitobans ahead of partisan interests.

Let us work together to deal with the disaster that we are dealing with, whether it be '97, '99 or the year 2000. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Mr. Larry Maguire (Arthur-Virden): I am sure glad I made it back in the House in time to see that tirade. Mr. Deputy Speaker, how many times in this House have we heard the same rhetoric from this government since they got elected over the last 10 months?

I was going to go through the number of programs, and I have done that before myself, to outline the serious ness of the nature of the cause in western Mani toba, not ju st southwest Manitoba but the whole region that was impacted by the flood in 19 99. We have a Minister of Government Services and Emergency Measures that had such an emergency that he could not stay and hear the debate, but we have a situation whereby- Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. Point of order being raised. * (1 6:00) Point of Order Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin-Roblin): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I believe, if the Member for Arthu

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	37-1-61b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	37th 1st hansardpdf 61b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	5674fc50d6851e48dc5a9396f7dabc540e4d1c98

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