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April 13, 2011

39th Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2011-Apr-13 (PDF)

L108 - Wed 13 Apr 2011 / Mer 13 avr 2011

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Wednesday 13 April 2011 Mercredi 13 avril 2011

ORDERS OF THE DAY

ORDER OF BUSINESS

1314596 ONTARIO INC. ACT, 2011

1314596 ONTARIO INC. ACT, 2011

S.L. MCNALLY CONSULTING

SERVICES INC. ACT, 2011

S.L. MCNALLY CONSULTING

SERVICES INC. ACT, 2011

BAHRAM & HAMID INC. ACT, 2011

BAHRAM & HAMID INC. ACT, 2011

URSULINE RELIGIOUS

OF LONDON ACT (TAX RELIEF), 2011

URSULINE RELIGIOUS

OF LONDON ACT (TAX RELIEF), 2011

1312510 ONTARIO LTD. ACT, 2011

1312510 ONTARIO LTD. ACT, 2011

SECURITIES INDUSTRY

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

ORAL QUESTIONS

VICTIMS OF CRIME

VICTIMS OF CRIME

NUCLEAR SAFETY

NUCLEAR SAFETY

VICTIMS OF CRIME

TAXATION

ANTI-BULLYING INITIATIVES

VICTIMS OF CRIME

CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES

PHOTO IDENTIFICATION

AIR AMBULANCE SERVICE

HERITAGE CONSERVATION

CONVENTION CENTRES

MUNICIPAL PLANNING

EDUCATION FUNDING

DEFERRED VOTES

TIME ALLOCATION

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

CLERK’S BIRTHDAY

MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS

RAY TANGUAY

JOHN BADHAM

VICTIMS OF CRIME

TORNADO MEDICAL SYSTEMS

ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION

CANADIAN ABORIGINAL

AND MINORITY SUPPLIER COUNCIL

ASSISTANCE TO FARMERS

HATE CRIMES

MANUFACTURING JOBS

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

BUILDING FAMILIES AND SUPPORTING

YOUTH TO BE SUCCESSFUL ACT, 2011 /

LOI DE 2011 FAVORISANT

LA FONDATION DE FAMILLES

ET LA RÉUSSITE CHEZ LES JEUNES

FARADALE FARMS LTD. ACT, 2011

ONTARIO ONE CALL ACT, 2011 /

LOI DE 2011 SUR ONTARIO ONE CALL

MOTIONS

ADJOURNMENT DEBATES

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

AND RESPONSES

ADOPTION

PETITIONS

LANDLORD AND TENANT BOARD

NON-PROFIT HOUSING

WIND TURBINES

DIAGNOSTIC SERVICES

PROTECTION FOR PEOPLE

WITH DISABILITIES

DOG OWNERSHIP

TAXATION

OAK RIDGES MORAINE

OFFICE OF THE OMBUDSMAN

ASSISTANCE TO FARMERS

DOG OWNERSHIP

ASSISTANCE TO FARMERS

ORDERS OF THE DAY

STRONG COMMUNITIES THROUGH

AFFORDABLE HOUSING ACT, 2011 /

LOI DE 2011 FAVORISANT

DES COLLECTIVITÉS FORTES

GRÂCE AU LOGEMENT ABORDABLE

CORRECTION OF RECORD

The House met at 0900.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Good morning. Please remain standing for the Lord’s Prayer, followed by a moment of silence for inner thought and personal reflection.

Prayers.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

ORDER OF BUSINESS

Hon. Monique M. Smith: I move that the orders for second and third reading of the following private bills shall be called consecutively and the questions on the motions for second and third reading of the bills be put immediately without debate: Bill Pr36,

An Act to revive 1314596 Ontario Inc.; Bill Pr40,

An Act to revive S.L. McNally Consulting Services Inc.; Bill Pr42,

An Act to revive Bahram & Hamid Inc.; Bill Pr43,

An Act respecting the Ursuline Religious of the Diocese of London in Ontario; Bill Pr45,

An Act to revive 1312510 Ontario Ltd.; that Mr. Leal may move the motions for second and third reading of Bill Pr40 on behalf of Mr. Caplan; and that Mr. Leal may move the motions for second and third reading of Bill Pr45 on behalf of Mr. Dickson.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Motion agreed to.

1314596 ONTARIO INC. ACT, 2011

Mr. Kormos moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill Pr36,

An Act to revive 1314596 Ontario Inc.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Second reading agreed to.

1314596 ONTARIO INC. ACT, 2011

Mr. Kormos moved third reading of the following bill:

Bill Pr36,

An Act to revive 1314596 Ontario Inc.

Mr. Peter Kormos: I should indicate that I appreciate the support of my colleagues on both sides of the House this morning.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Be it resolved that the bill do now pass and be entitled as in the motion.

Third reading agreed to.

S.L. MCNALLY CONSULTING

SERVICES INC. ACT, 2011

Mr. Leal, on behalf of Mr. Caplan, moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill Pr40,

An Act to revive S.L. McNally Consulting Services Inc.

Mr. Jeff Leal: I appreciate the co-operation on all sides of the House on this one.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Second reading agreed to.

S.L. MCNALLY CONSULTING

SERVICES INC. ACT, 2011

Mr. Leal, on behalf of Mr. Caplan, moved third reading of the following bill:

Bill Pr40,

An Act to revive S.L. McNally Consulting Services Inc.

Mr. Jeff Leal: I appreciate the co-operation from the member from Welland.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Be it resolved that the bill do now pass and be entitled as in the motion.

Third reading agreed to.

BAHRAM & HAMID INC. ACT, 2011

Mr. Zimmer moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill Pr42,

An Act to revive Bahram & Hamid Inc.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Second reading agreed to.

BAHRAM & HAMID INC. ACT, 2011

Mr. Zimmer moved third reading of the following bill:

Bill Pr42,

An Act to revive Bahram & Hamid Inc.

Mr. David Zimmer: I must say, I was looking forward to the opportunity to debate this bill at length with the member for Welland, as is his usual wont, but I expect it’s rather early in the morning for even him to fire up the cells of his brain.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Mr. Zimmer has moved third reading of Bill Pr42. Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Be it resolved that the bill do now pass and be entitled as in the motion.

Third reading agreed to.

URSULINE RELIGIOUS

OF LONDON ACT (TAX RELIEF), 2011

Mr. Hoy moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill Pr43,

An Act respecting the Ursuline Religious of the Diocese of London in Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Second reading agreed to.

URSULINE RELIGIOUS

OF LONDON ACT (TAX RELIEF), 2011

Mr. Hoy moved third reading of the following bill:

Bill Pr43,

An Act respecting the Ursuline Religious of the Diocese of London in Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Be it resolved that the bill do now pass and be entitled as in the motion.

Third reading agreed to.

1312510 ONTARIO LTD. ACT, 2011

Mr. Leal, on behalf of Mr. Dickson, moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill Pr45,

An Act to revive 1312510 Ontario Ltd.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Second reading agreed to.

1312510 ONTARIO LTD. ACT, 2011

Mr. Leal, on behalf of Mr. Dickson, moved third reading of the following bill:

Bill Pr45,

An Act to revive 1312510 Ontario Ltd.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Be it resolved that the bill do now pass and be entitled as in the motion.

Third reading agreed to.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Orders of the day.

Hon. Monique M. Smith: Mr. Speaker, I forgot to wish you a happy pink day earlier today, so, happy pink day.

Government order number 3.

SECURITIES INDUSTRY

Resuming the debate adjourned on May 13, 2010, on the amendment to the motion by Ms. Broten to locate the new common securities regulator in Toronto.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Further debate?

Mr. Yasir Naqvi: Thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to speak on this very important motion.

Before I talk about the motion, I want to take the opportunity to also highlight that today is international Day of Pink, a day that resolves to fight all forms of bullying, discrimination and harassment. Of course, we don’t need a day to stand firm and committed to fight discrimination, to fight homophobia, to fight all sorts of gender-based violence. But it’s important to take a day like today and make a statement. I know that a lot of members—in fact, all members—do important work in their communities to ensure that this day is important, and we work with our youth, in particular, in our communities to ensure that we continue to fight discrimination, bullying and harassment.

It is a pleasure for me to speak on this motion. It’s been a while since this motion has been debated, so let me take the time to read the motion. It’s a short one that was introduced by the finance minister, Mr. Duncan, and it states:

“That the Legislative Assembly of Ontario endorses the need for a strong national securities regulator and endorses the Open Ontario plan to grow our financial services industry by calling on the federal government to recognize Toronto’s role as the third-largest financial centre in North America and therefore locate the new common securities regulator in Toronto, where it belongs.”

That’s what the motion is. In my mind, there is no disputing the sentiments that are expressed in this motion; that is, (1) we need a national securities regulator in Canada, as opposed to the 13 different security regulators that exist right now in all provinces and territories across the country; and (2) that the headquarters, the main office, for this new national securities regulator shall be located in Toronto, because Toronto is the largest financial services centre in all the country. I will speak to both of these very important points.

Having this debate today is also quite valid, because today this issue and the issue around whether or not the federal government has the authority under the Canadian Constitution to create a federal securities regulator is before the Supreme Court of Canada. I believe there are two-day hearings taking place at the Supreme Court, which by the way, as a matter of interest, is located in the great riding of Ottawa Centre; it’s a national institution that I’m very much aware of because it’s part of my riding.

Lawyers from different provinces and the federal government are arguing this particular issue today at the Supreme Court. I’m also very happy to note that Ontario is part of those proceedings. It’s participating as an intervener in support of the creation of a Canada-wide securities regulator.

I think there are a couple of questions that are embedded in this debate that are important to explore. One, I think many people find it surprising that we do not have a national securities regulator, and that in fact what we have in Canada are 13 separate securities regulators, one for each province and then one for each of the three territories, so 13 in total. All those 13 regulators try to work together, but obviously they have different rules and regulations; they have different policies, different guidelines and different priorities. So it does create a bit of a disjointed system across the country.

The important thing to note, again, is that we are perhaps the only jurisdiction in all the industrialized world that has a fragmented system composed of 13 different securities regulators as opposed to one securities regulator. It is important, I would argue, that we resolve that issue. We’ve got international organizations like the OECD, the Organisation for Economic Co-Operation and Development, and the IMF, the International Monetary Fund, that have been arguing for some time that Canada, being such an important player in the capital markets internationally, should have one securities regulator in place. So I think this move is extremely important.

What are the benefits of creating a single national securities regulator? Well, there are a few benefits that I want to highlight. One, it will allow for more consistent protection for investors across Canada. The purpose behind securities regulation is to ensure that investors locally, be it in Ontario or federally, have protection when they’re making investments in various instruments, be it corporations, companies or businesses that are publicly traded on the stock exchange, or other financial instruments, many of which we know, like bonds and mutual funds, etc.

By having a single regulator, you can have a more consistent set of rules to protect investors across the country, so that we do not have different levels of protection, or lack thereof, from jurisdiction to jurisdiction across the country. I think that is not only good for local, domestic investors but also international investors who are looking into investing in Canada.

The other benefit for having a national securities regulator is more improved regulatory and criminal enforcement to fight securities-related crime. Again, another important aspect of securities regulators like the Ontario Securities Commission is that they are an enforcement agency. Part of their role is to ensure that white-collar-related crimes that deal with securities are properly regulated, and if any rules are being broken, then they are offences that are associated with it. By having, again, a more Canada-wide securities regulator, we get better and improved regulatory and criminal enforcement in terms of any securities-related crimes that may come forward.

Another benefit would be better support for the stability of the Canadian financial system; again, making sure that British Columbia is not doing something different than Alberta, Quebec or Ontario. You have a more consistent, harmonized set of rules that allow for a more stable financial system, especially in today’s climate, where we live in a very globalized market economy. We need to make sure that the rules in Canada are stable in nature; are sending the right message that Canada is open for business, that Canada provides the right level of consistent protection for investors who may be considering investing in our strong economy, in Ontario or anywhere else in Canada.

Another, I think, important aspect to having a harmonized system—or having a uniform system—across the country is a faster policy response to any emerging market trends. This has been a challenge in that, as the economies develop, as the financial services sector develops, you want to be able to respond at a faster pace, especially in today’s world where, with all the technologies at hand, things do move fast. By having a national securities regulator, again, we’re looking at a more consistent policy approach in terms of dealing with any emerging market issues.

Another good benefit, I would argue—if there is such a thing as a bad benefit—is simpler processes for businesses when it comes to their interaction with the securities regulator. Again, if you’re looking at a large company which may be doing business in various jurisdictions, they may have to deal with two or more of the securities regulators: different sets of rules and different processes, which makes the whole process quite cumbersome for those businesses as well.

Then there’s the element of cost for the investor, because the more regulatory agencies you are dealing with, the more costs you will incur as an investor. By having one more streamlined securities regulator, I think one is looking at simpler processes for business and a lower cost for investors as well, giving them more opportunity to invest that money and grow our economy and create jobs.

Lastly, I would argue that on an international front, by having a national securities regulator what we are talking about is more effective international representation and influence for Canada. As I mentioned, there’s OECD and IMF, to name a few organizations out there which deal with issues at a national level on securities matters. Having one consistent voice on behalf of Canada would give more weight to Canada’s voice, as opposed to the disparate voices that exist across the country.

A lot of work has gone on on this issue, as I mentioned, which is all being accumulated into—I believe it’s a reference before the Supreme Court of Canada. It’s being heard today and tomorrow.

The first one—the obvious one, I would argue—was that we have a fragmented structure in place. It makes it difficult for Canadian securities regulators to react quickly and decisively to capital market events. I mentioned earlier the fact that we have 13 securities regulators of various sizes, Ontario of course being one of the largest ones, because we are the hub for financial service markets in Canada. It is difficult to make quick decisions. It is difficult to react in an expedient manner to issues that may be developing in terms of the financial services market. That fragmented structure was identified by the expert panel as a challenge for our regulators.

Another concern that was expressed by the panel was that the provincial mandates are incongruent with the national reforms required to address development in capital markets—that could be national or international in scope. Again, as things develop—and I think the last recession was a good example of a situation where there was quite serious turmoil in the financial services market. We saw banks in the United States collapsing. There was a lot of conversation that took place at the international level to ensure that our securities regulators are able to respond. Those types of situations are difficult to deal with in the structure that exists today.

Lastly, one of the concerns the expert panel reported was around how the current structure misallocates resources, causing securities regulation to be less efficient and effective—another challenge because, again, we have 13 separate regulators across the country spending their resources on doing pretty much the same thing, when we could bring them all together, put one regulator in place and get things done. That’s the issue around the need for having a single securities regulator.

Mr. Rosario Marchese: And that’s enough.

Mr. Yasir Naqvi: No, Mr. Marchese, I have a few more things to say. I think this is an important issue, and I very much support having a national securities regulator.

The second issue, which I think which we should all be supporting in this Legislature, is that the headquarters for this securities regulator should be based in Toronto. I think we will all agree that Toronto is the capital of the financial services sector in all of Canada. There is no disagreement—there should be no disagreement—about that. In fact, Toronto is the third-largest financial centre in all of North America. That is very significant as well.

It only makes sense that when we are creating a national securities regulator, the headquarters, the regulator, be located here in Toronto, because in the world globally, when we’re talking about the financial services market, all investors automatically think of Toronto as the place to go.

I think it will send a very good signal to all investors across the world that Toronto is where the national securities regulator is, and I think it will instill confidence in those investors in terms of investing in Canada. We also know that Toronto is home to the 13 largest banks in North America by market capitalization, and is, as I mentioned, the third-largest financial sector in North America, behind only New York and Chicago, which gives further credence that this securities regulator should be located here.

The point, I think, is that if there is homework for all of us to do, it is that we need to put pressure on federal members of Parliament from Ontario to advocate that Toronto should be the place for the national securities regulator. I think all of us need to make sure, and this election is an apt opportunity for us to take that message home. I really urge the members of the official opposition as well to talk to the Conservative members coming out of Ontario, and perhaps other Conservative members from other parts of the country, that Toronto should be the home for the national capital securities regulator. It does not make sense at all that it be located anywhere else.

So my plea to everyone is that this is an issue where we are meeting individually with candidates who are seeking office right now to be members of Parliament, and then those who will be fortunate to be elected on May 2; that we sit down with them and have this issue on the top of our priority list, so that when they are back in the House of Commons, this issue is raised.

I ask my Liberal colleagues and I’ll ask my Conservative and NDP colleagues to take this issue because I think it is an important one. It means jobs for our communities; it means more prosperity for our communities; it ensures that Ontario remains at the forefront when it comes to attracting new capital investment dollars. And Toronto is ready to meet those needs. Toronto is ready to serve all of the country as the head office for the national securities regulator.

Speaker, thank you very much for giving me an opportunity to speak on this very important issue. I really hope that all members take my plea seriously in terms of speaking with their federal counterparts, ensuring that this issue remains at the forefront and that Toronto is chosen as the place to locate the national securities regulator, because this is where the action is taking place. This is what the global players around the world know, where the capital of the financial services market is, and that’s in Toronto. I think it is our collective responsibility that we ensure that that decision is made appropriately by the federal government.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): Further debate?

Mrs. Julia Munro: I just would want to indicate at this time that I will be sharing my time with the member from Burlington and the member from Cambridge.

First of all, I want to indicate here that obviously we in the official opposition do support the notion of the important role and the argument for Toronto as the home of the national securities regulator. I think that while others have indicated certain specific areas of the reasons for the—

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): The member for York–Simcoe, I’m advised that you have already spoken on this motion, so I’ll go to the member—

Interjection.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): Well, it’s some time since we’ve debated it—I think it’s about a year—so it’s reasonable that someone would forget.

The member for Burlington.

Mrs. Joyce Savoline: How desperate is this government, regurgitating something that was introduced on March 22, 2010, that people have even forgotten whether they have spoken to the darned thing or not? An honest mistake, but shame on the government. If this were so important, as the member from Ottawa Centre has stated, and so urgent, why are we discussing this over a year after it was introduced? My gosh. This makes no sense to me whatsoever, and it was a complete surprise to all of us when this was introduced as the debate this morning.

Again, shame on the government: desperate—totally desperate—to keep us here and talk about something. You know what? The member from Ottawa Centre said. “We wanted to keep this in the forefront.” Keeping this in the forefront over a year after introducing it makes no sense at all.

I understand completely the importance of recognizing the financial services sector in Toronto as being the capital of our financial services sector here in Canada. I completely recognize that, and I value that, but I think that it was unfortunate, regrettable, that the government had to slip their Open Ontario plan into the recommendation to keep this as Canada’s financial capital, because it was a bit of a trick to try to get folks who did not endorse the plan to endorse it or vote against Toronto being Canada’s financial sector capital.

What is that about? Are you so desperate that your legislation and your plans and your policies can’t stand on their own that you’ve got to interweave them into something that makes it difficult for the opposition to oppose? Well, I won’t be supporting the plan if it includes the statement that endorses the Open Ontario plan, because I did not support that.

In fact, in the whole 20 minutes that the member from Ottawa Centre spoke, he not once—not once—mentioned that, as part of this recommendation, the Open Ontario plan was included in the wording of that recommendation. So obviously it wasn’t as important as the government thought, but they did just slip it in there so that it made it difficult for the opposition. Again, shame on the government.

The city of Toronto is a busy place; it’s a bustling place. It’s had its ups and downs, but it’s a very proud city with a great, great history. One part of its great history is the fact that it has grown into the financial services capital of Canada. It’s home to the headquarters of five of the major banks. It has thousands of employees—growing yearly—who work in the sector. We have the headquarters of about 80% of the foreign banks that operate in Canada right here in Toronto: a proud, proud moment for this city. The Toronto Stock Exchange is the largest stock exchange in Canada. There are almost 2,000 financial firms right here in this city, and that’s great.

I would love to support this recommendation. However, by slipping in endorsement of the Open Ontario plan, it makes it impossible for me to support this. If we could divide the recommendation to be able to support part of it, that would be great, but this Legislature doesn’t allow that to happen, and that’s unfortunate.

The employment in this sector has grown considerably in the last few years, and it continues to grow. Even with the recessions that have occurred, the troubles in the world economy, this city continues to keep its mark on that world stage by proving itself to be a strong and viable place to do business. There are now upwards of 130,000 folks employed in this sector. It would be a darned shame if anything happened to make that change. People are depending on this city—they have grown around the sector in this city and in the GTA—to contribute to a productive, wonderful economy in our country, and I would hope that that remains.

It’s been my pleasure to speak to this. It’s my disappointment that it was brought forward this way, as a complete surprise, after over a year of sitting somewhere on somebody’s desk. My concern is that the member from Ottawa Centre did not make enough points that gave me any consideration to be able to support this recommendation.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): The member for Cambridge.

Mr. Gerry Martiniuk: This government has sat on its hands for seven long years with one of the most important problems that we have in Canada, and that is the credibility of the Toronto stock market for this great nation. This government has starved the funding of the Ontario Securities Commission. It has refused the funding and prevented the commission from doing its job.

The commission was before a committee which I sat on over two years ago, and it pleaded with the committee and the government to increase the funding. They told us about the problem that, where they had a jurisdiction which in effect covers the whole of Canada, wrongdoers outside of the province and inside of the province—investigations were impossible because of the lack of funding. The police departments are busy doing other things also, so their co-operation is not always there, and certainly police departments outside of Ontario are not really interested in assisting the securities commission.

What happens? A gold company—an individual, the president—discovered gold in China. It happened within the last five years. Well, that’s great. The announcements took place, and periodically announcements were made about the cores being drilled and the gold being found. The whole thing was a fraud. It happened right here, not more than two years ago.

The individual involved has never been prosecuted. He’s not here in Ontario. I don’t even know whether an investigation has been done, but there is no ramification. Right now in Canada, you just ensure that you’re not within Ontario—and even then you may be safe. But if you’re outside of Ontario, you’re perfectly safe to defraud the public.

This government for seven years has sat on its hands and done absolutely nothing, and all of a sudden it’s concerned that it may lose a federal regulator. Where are they going to go? They’re going to go west, of course. The power is slowly shifting. Oil, potash—the west is reborn. We have the stock exchange now. Is it possible that an exchange commission could be seized in Alberta or Saskatchewan or BC? Why not? I’ve warned this government in a minority report over two years ago that that was a possibility, and it still is.

It’s really a shame that this government has ignored the pleas of the Ontario Securities Commission for greater funding to permit them to do their job. It’s a sad tale when other provinces look at us, and we have the stock exchange located in our great city of Toronto, and yet it is not governed properly, through no fault of our commission—our present commission—but through the fault of this government and its lack of funding.

I really get concerned about Ontario, this government and what the rest of this great country thinks of what’s going on in this province.

Mr. John O’Toole: Alberta. Go to the Alberta line.

Mr. Gerry Martiniuk: In the province of Alberta, the newspaper the Calgary Herald wants to talk about Ontario. This is its picture of Ontario: “In a bold move, an Ontario teachers’ union has signalled its intent to buy a provincial government.” That is the byline in the April 8, 2011, newspaper dealing with the Catholic teachers’ union’s attempt to raise money to circumvent the morality of the situation.

They found a loophole in the law, they believe, that permits them to in effect buy this government, buy any government in Ontario, through their support, circumventing our present laws dealing with elections and the restraints that we all properly live with in elections. We can only spend so much as a party. There’s an equality there, there’s a fairness there, and that is being broken.

We want to have the federal securities commission remain in Ontario. Places like Calgary are looking at Ontario and saying, “It’s a banana republic.” What happened to the great Ontario that was revered, not just in Canada but throughout the world, the economic engine of this great country? What has happened to this province in the hands of this government? We’re a lot poorer. Our image in the world has degraded, and some consider us a banana republic. A government, any government in Ontario, can be bought. I say no, there is no possibility of that happening.

However, we are losing, somewhat, the public image; we’re losing our perception of integrity—and I believe there is great integrity in this Legislature.

We’re losing part of the battle, so even if we have—and over two years ago, in a minority report, we insisted that this government move and that it do something in encouraging a federal commission. Down in the United States of America, they have the SEC. When you mention the Securities and Exchange Commission in the United States of America, people listen, because they’re terrified of that commission. They know its awesome power; they know that it’s well-funded for investigations, and they listen. The latest famous prosecution was that of Mr. Black.

When you mention the Ontario Securities Commission to anybody outside of Ontario, there’s no concern there. They know that they are underfunded; they know that they will get no assistance from anyone outside the province to do their investigations. Inside Ontario, we know that too. They’re like Rodney Dangerfield: They get no respect from the markets, through no fault of theirs. I listened very carefully for almost a full day when they recited the problems that they have. They’ve got problems getting the co-operation of the police, they’ve got problems in underfunding and they haven’t got sufficiency in the way of regulators.

I can see that this government wants to get rid of the problem, get rid of the funding, and put it into federal hands. I’m in favour of that, because this government is doing such a poor job of regulating our stock exchange right now, permitting, as I mentioned when I started, a gold company to issue false core specimens, to do it on a number of occasions, and when the truth was finally out that it was all falsified, there was no prosecution of one person. There’s got to be something strangely wrong with Ontario today.

If you get caught stealing a loaf of bread, there’s a possibility that you will be prosecuted and that you will have a fine or even spend a night—admittedly, not a long time—in jail. But if you steal $1 million in our Ontario through white-collar crime, you walk away free and get to keep your money, your ill-gotten gains. There’s something wrong with the system. There’s something wrong with a government that looks the other way when this is happening.

I certainly would support the motion if it dealt with the transfer of power to a federal commission. That is the right thing to do. I said that over two years ago in a minority report, and I repeat it. To foul the nest, so to speak, by throwing in some mumbo-jumbo that some spin doctor in the Premier’s office has figured out will sell this government; by throwing in some words that no one really knows what they’re about, is really a sad tale.

Does it mean that this government is not serious in supporting a federal commission, or does it mean that they’re so desperate that they can only spin, rather than really deal with the real issues that this province has to face in the years ahead for the benefit of all?

So, though I support the intent, I have a great difficulty. We have proposed a motion which would clarify it and remove the spin, remove the election platform promises, and just deal with the request of the federal government—and the strong request, I hope—that a federal-jurisdiction commission to govern the stock exchange be, at long last, instituted across this great country.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): Further debate?

Hon. Glen R. Murray: Living in Toronto and living in Ontario is a huge privilege. We in the Liberal Party love this province. We are extraordinarily proud of the sacrifices that farmers, bankers, labourers and teachers have made to do that.

I’m very proud to be the member for Toronto Centre. I am very proud to be the member for a large part of Toronto’s financial services.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: Bring back George Smitherman.

Hon. Glen R. Murray: Yes, George Smitherman would be a great person to bring back, to my friend from Nepean–Carleton. Maybe in your seat. It would be a major improvement.

It’s fascinating to me—the member for Cambridge clearly doesn’t have much regard for this province. To refer to Ontario as a banana republic is one of the most offensive—I can’t find parliamentary language to describe how ridiculous it is, coming from the Monty Pythonesque antics of the party. Some 80% of people don’t have a stable banking system and they don’t have a stable democracy, and they came here to Ontario because we have a stable democracy, a stable financial system and a democratic, civil-based society.

How do you run for office and attack bankers? Mr. Drummond, a life of public service—we’re very fortunate to have five of the 10 largest banks in North America headquartered in our province, of 13 banks. Referring to Mr. Drummond as some Bay Street banker, as if those people are unimportant and have nothing to contribute—well, having been mayor of a city that didn’t have any banks, when there were days when Halifax, Montreal, London, Toronto and Winnipeg all had bank head offices, now, essentially, we’re the only city with a bank head office, which is why we should have a securities commission here.

But the party opposite is absolutely offensive. The member for Bruce–Grey–Owen Sound, only a few months ago, was suggesting that Toronto separate from the province of Ontario. I spent my adolescence milking cows in Alexandria, and I understand, and this party understands, that we need the pools of capital, that there are very few cities that have the large pools of capital that banks—because farmers need them, and cities need farmers. But this is typical of the party opposite’s divisive politics.

They want to set farmers up—“Every farmer doesn’t understand.” They treat them like they’re backward bumpkins, and then they treat bankers like they’re some city slickers who are trying to take advantage of everyone who doesn’t live in Toronto. This incredibly offensive view of this province is exactly why I don’t think those people across the way are fit to govern.

It seems to me that this is so obvious. In Winnipeg, they have the wheat board because Winnipeg is the wheat capital of Canada. I’m very proud to have grown up in Montreal, and I saw the financial system collapse there and relocate to Ontario. When you live in any other part of the country, you understand that when you have the banking industry, you have some of the higher salaries; you have the capital necessary for innovation in businesses; you have the capital necessary for agri-business; you have the capital necessary for manufacturing.

We only have a banking system here because of the people in northern Ontario, quite frankly, like my friend Bill Mauro, because it is the financing of mining and resource extraction that brought banking here originally. We are the largest banking centre in the world right now for minerals and those kinds of resources, and we’re very proud of that, because we understand that the banks serve northern Ontario and Toronto wouldn’t have the competitive advantage if northern Ontario, for example, weren’t part of Ontario. But you’ve never heard anyone on this side of the House suggest that we carve the province up in little pieces.

Finally, it seems to me that we are living in a much more competitive world. We compete with London, Chicago and New York. The Open Ontario plan is attached to this motion for a very good reason: It drives an entire agenda of incentives and assistance for the formulation of risk capital; it works toward a strategy to build our financial services, of which having the securities regulator here is a critical part.

We are proud of bankers. We see bankers as an important part of our economy. We do not berate them, because if they ever picked up and left for Calgary or for Winnipeg or for Montreal, we would be a much lesser province. Look at who gives money to the arts and anti-poverty. Look at the $400-million addition to the Sick Kids hospital research centre. Do you think we could build that if we didn’t have banking and financial services here?

If only my friend from Cambridge and my friend from Bruce–Grey–Owen Sound, who like to take shots at everyone who lives in urban Canada and drive those wedges, would talk to their federal cousins—because we have a petro dollar in this country, not an innovation dollar, not a manufacturing dollar and not an agri-dollar. And why is that? Because the most subsidized industry is not our Green Energy Act, which they love to chastise us about; it’s their federal cousins. You put a dollar into the oil sands and you get a tax writeoff from the federal government of 42.5 cents.

We have to compete now with a higher dollar than they had when they were in power. We’re more successful in recovering, and that’s extraordinary.

We live with a government, federally, that understands oil and doesn’t understand banking and doesn’t stand up for our financial services sector. That, to me, is just sad, given how many members from the party opposite sit in the federal Parliament.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): Further debate?

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: What’s actually sad is that this government, this Liberal government, will put this on the table today after it has not been discussed for almost an entire year, if it has not been—yes, it has been an entire year. It was introduced on March 22, 2010. Why is it appearing now? Because this government, this Liberal government, wants to inject itself into a federal election. They saw yesterday that their hero, Mr. Ignatieff, couldn’t win a federal debate, so we have to bring this up to talk about something to intervene in a federal election.

But let me tell you something. The members on this side of the House, in the official opposition, have been very clear that we support a national securities regulator housed in Toronto. We have been very clear about that. We have been very clear about that since the government agencies committee actually brought in the Ontario Securities Commission to talk about what they’re doing and did a review of the entire agency. At that time, we echoed exactly what the federal finance minister, Jim Flaherty, was saying in his budget a few years ago.

Let’s not forget that Jim Flaherty is the architect of this idea, who believes that there should be a national securities regulator. He was the first finance minister in this country to actually put that in a budget, and guess what? Not only was the member from Durham at that budget, not only was the member from Whitby–Oshawa at that budget, but I too sat there to watch the finance minister of the day—who, I imagine, in a few weeks will remain Canada’s finance minister—bring that to the floor of the House of Commons.

The question here today is not whether people support Toronto as the economic centre of this nation; the question here today is, why did they have to hide the title of their throne speech in this motion? That is the question. They are trying to force people into either voting for something that we don’t support, which is their Open Ontario initiative, or to vote against it, to suggest and imply that members of this side of the House don’t recognize Toronto as the economic and financial capital of this province and this country.

And we do; I want to be very, very clear with you and with the folks who are at home that the Ontario Progressive Conservative Party and our caucus, under the leadership of Tim Hudak, supports this notion of a national securities regulator, but also that we support its headquarters here in the province of Ontario.

At the time, I had asked Mr. Wilson, who was a previous head of the OSC, a lot of different questions about how a national securities regulator would actually impact the OSC and where those folks would find jobs, and he was very much in favour at the time. We, of course, now have a new head of the securities regulator, Mr. Wetston. My colleague here from Oxford was there when we brought him in, and I believe he was endorsed by our government agencies committee.

But the reality is that the heart of this resolution, as my colleague from Burlington said, is trickery. They’re trying to trick people. And why are they bringing it up over a year later? It can’t be that much of a priority for them, other than to get engaged in this federal election, which I think demeans this House. There’s no point in trying to intervene in an election which these federal parties are now engaged in.

We can all take our own personal views outside this chamber and into our constituencies, should we so choose, and I often do. I’m a big advocate for that. After all, we are in a democracy. But using this Legislature for a wedge issue like this or a wedge resolution is despicable, and quite frankly, I think it’s beneath the government of the day.

They actually had an opportunity a year ago to debate this, which was, I believe, timely. It was not too long after Mr. Flaherty brought forward this resolution into his budget in the Parliament of Canada, and so we ask now why—why, why, why is this being debated in the middle of a federal election?

Are we going to be expecting Dwight Duncan, the finance minister of the day, to do what he said on the day of the election, which is to get involved in the federal election? He’ll go out helping his Liberal counterparts. I have no problem with that, but just don’t use your budget and don’t use this motion to try and divide and conquer Ontarians and Canadians. That’s wrong. This government should be well above that and well above reproach. Unfortunately, they aren’t.

My colleagues have spoken on this bill, I think, because we are so offended that the government of the day has tried to trick Ontarians and Canadians. They must imagine us all for fools, but I can assure you, we aren’t. Of course, on October 6, 2011, we will indeed show them who needs change in this province; I suspect that will come very quickly.

My colleague Peter Shurman, who is our economic development critic, has spoken quite at length. He’s also a member from the GTA, from Thornhill, and he talked about some of the positives that are in favour of Toronto and what the record is. I thought it was really interesting, in reading his speech earlier this morning, some of the things he pointed out.

Toronto is the heart, as we all know, of Canada’s financial services sector. It’s home to five of Canada’s largest domestic banks, 55 foreign bank subsidiaries and branches, and 119 securities firms. Right now, you can count those groups like Manulife and Sun Life among two of the top 10 life insurers worldwide as residents in this city. The TMX Group, commonly known as the Toronto Stock Exchange, has its headquarters here. We also have the operations of seven of the top 10 largest global hedge fund administrators. He also tells us that the city of Toronto is the largest Wi-Fi zone in Canada.

Coming from Ottawa, obviously we like to champion our city, and I’m very proud of that. It’s also the home of our nation’s capital; the federal seat of Parliament resides in the city that I represent. However, those of us from this province champion not only our nation’s capital but also our financial and provincial capital.

Mr. Speaker, I understand that you’re engaged in this conversation that is going on beside me, but it’s fine. They’re actually just whispering what I should be saying; right?

Mr. John O’Toole: No, no.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: No, no?

Mr. Ernie Hardeman: Just trying to be of assistance.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: They’re trying to be of assistance.

My colleague from Durham has noted, and I believe the member from Cambridge quite elegantly noted, the importance of Toronto, but also that this government is not being fair with the people in bringing this motion forward. It’s so timely for them. If you wanted to get involved in a federal election by using this chamber—which they’ve already done by using their budget—then this would be a perfect time for it.

I look at what’s happening in Peterborough with my friend Dean Del Mastro, and what may happen there on October 6. We’re looking forward to change in Ontario and being able to work with the federal government, instead of seeing this particular chamber always pick a fight with our federal government, which will be returned, of course, on May 2.

I just want to talk a little bit more about the mutual fund industry. Of course, they were hard hit, as many of you will know, through the HST. I worked with many of those mutual fund companies that were telling us that this was going to be an extra tax on people who were trying to save for their retirement. The Mackenzie Financial report estimated that the cost of the HST for a $100,000 portfolio would be almost $2,500 over the course of 10 years. On larger portfolios, that would be much more.

Why do I bring that up? Because the mutual fund industry, as I mentioned earlier, is very large here in Toronto. If the government of this day, this Liberal government, chose to actually be supportive of the financial services sector here in Ontario, they would have listened to people from Mackenzie Financial, CI Financial and other groups that were here and spoke on many occasions to the Minister of Finance, but also to committee.

I remember, when the HST was being brought in, that young stockbrokers and young mutual fund agents would be in the galleries up there, because they knew how much this was going to tax not only their own industry but certainly the people they represent. They didn’t think it was fair that somebody who was working hard, playing by the rules and saving was going to lose about $2,500 in extra taxes after they had been saving.

So again, if you think this is a government that actually feels compelled to support the Toronto financial sector, you have to think again, and you have to consider what their motivations are for bringing this forward. They’re bringing it forward well after they’ve entrenched the HST into law. It’s a $3-billion tax grab that comes from middle-income families, many of whom have been hit with very high hydro rates and high gas prices and a plethora of other increases to the cost of living. That’s a motivation. They wanted to hide this bill so that we couldn’t talk about it at that particular time.

The other motivation is that they clearly would like to get engaged in the federal government election that is occurring right now. By all accounts, as proud Ontarians, we all know that this is a very important province in the federal election landscape, and of course they want to use and abuse their powers in this chamber to force an outcome.

I can tell you, though, I think that Ontario voters won’t be fooled by them; they refuse to be fooled by them, and I think they’re going to show up in numbers and disregard these political games my colleagues opposite are playing right now. I’ll continue, as do my colleagues in the chamber on the opposition side, to support a national securities regulator, but more than that, support its location in Toronto.

There are a number of outlying issues, and I believe my colleague from Cambridge mentioned them earlier in debate. We were talking about other provinces not exactly being engaged in this process or actually pushing back; they’re not completely supportive of a national securities regulator. I think that’s when we ought to be assisting, as a chamber, that message.

I guess the question then comes back to the government. You can put forward this little fluffy motion that really doesn’t mean anything because, again, it’s not binding. If they really supported this, here’s what I would do—and this is some free advice to this government. I’m happy to give them free advice.

If they were very serious about a national securities regulator and they were serious about housing it in the city of Toronto, this is what I would do: I would pick up the phone and I would call every finance minister in Canada and encourage them to get to the table, to buy into this—that means Quebec, Alberta, the Maritimes and other provinces—to ensure that they know the value of hosting a national securities regulator not only in Canada but specifically right here in the city of Toronto.

I would be investing my efforts and energy to bring those finance ministers from across Canada to this provincial capital, but also to Canada’s financial capital, and I would do that with the federal finance minister. But you’re not going to find them doing that, because it’s just not their style. They would rather put forward this flimsy, four-line motion that means absolutely nothing, with the exception of trying to wedge the opposition against the financial services sector and the folks of Toronto and trying to engage in a political campaign that we’re not actually engaged in here in this chamber.

That is what is so offensive to us on this side of the House. If they were serious and they really wanted to support a national securities regulator, there are lots of ways to do it. This motion is not how you do it. In fact, this motion actually speaks against exactly what they want to do because they’re using it as a political tool, but that’s what they do.

When you have no ideas of your own, what do you do? You fight with Ottawa. I knew that when I was a young person working on Parliament Hill. You would always know that when you’re in trouble at home, the provinces would pick a fight with the federal government.

Mr. Ernie Hardeman: Yes, they try that.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: Of course, this government does it all the time.

My colleague right here from Oxford is a prime example. As our critic for agriculture, he has been standing up for farmers and he has been working with our federal counterparts. He is responsible for the risk management program in this province that was in the last budget because of hard work and the credibility he has with farmers across this province. At the last minute, this crowd across the way decides they’re going to get engaged when they don’t have to do a payout. Is that not right?

Mr. Ernie Hardeman: Exactly, exactly. No payout this year, so out comes the announcement.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: They don’t have to do a payout, so they decide they’re going to minimally support that program. But I can tell you something: The member from Oxford understands how to get things done and the member from Oxford understands—

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): I’d like to hear the speaker who has the floor, so we’ll have some order, please.

The member for Nepean–Carleton.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: Thanks very much, Mr. Speaker.

Again, as I said, my colleague from Oxford knows how to get things done.

Do you know what the most frustrating thing in this House is? It’s when this Legislature will go into a full rant and we’ll have a minister opposite completely blow a gasket. Why are they blowing a gasket? Because they’re in trouble, and they say, “Call your federal cousins.” That’s hilarious. Can’t they do their job? Can’t they actually represent the province? No, they can’t because they’re so focused on the small stuff, on the little stuff, on the things that aren’t going to matter and playing little games.

But I can tell you something: It’s about to come to an end. They’ve got less than six months over there. It’s going to be a long, long road, the next six months, for them. I look at my friend from Haliburton–Kawartha Lakes–Brock. It’s got to be tough for him to know that in another five or six months he’ll be retired from this place and we’ll be bringing, of course, our friend Laurie Scott back.

I look across the way at some of the other friends who are going to be leaving. The reality is, I wish them well. I hope, when they leave this place, that they’ll take with them the fond memories we’ve all had here.

But I’m looking forward, of course, to continuing this debate to talk about a national securities regulator for Toronto, because as I said, this party clearly supports this. We have been on the record as supporting this. In fact, during those exact debates I was talking about earlier with my colleague from Oxford at government agencies, I believe our leader actually participated in some of those hearings, as our finance critic previously. So it was great.

I hear a lot of talk about Gerry Ritz, and I can tell you—here’s a little story, actually. We have some time in the morning. I was talking to Gerry Ritz a couple weeks ago, maybe a month ago, about agriculture. He was very well received in my suburban rural community. And do you know what he said? He said, “Lisa, we need to get that agriculture minister in Ontario to start working with us.” Do you know what he said?

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): The member for Nepean–Carleton, what we need to do is get back on the subject of the resolution.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: Here’s the subject, though, because it does play into interprovincial and intergovernmental affairs.

So he says to me, “We need to start working with that agriculture minister of yours.” I said, “You know what, Minister Ritz? You’re right.” And this is what he said. He said, “Yeah, you tell him to give me a call.” The federal Minister of Agriculture had no idea who the agriculture minister was in Ontario—two consecutive ministers who were females. But they don’t do anything. They’re so ineffective they’re not picking up the phone.

It goes to the heart of this legislation that’s before us. It speaks exactly to this legislation before us. It says they won’t work with their federal counterparts, that they’ll only complain about them in this Legislature and that they’ll try to play partisan political games, but they won’t pick up the phone to do what needs to be done. Whether that is calling their federal counterparts or—in this case, they should also be calling not only their federal counterparts but every single finance minister in this country.

But they won’t do it and they don’t do it, and we continue to debate silly little non-binding resolutions here and listen to the Backstreet Boys over in the corner heckle as the legislators here on the opposition side want to be committed to actually seeing a financial services regulator here in the city of Toronto. We could be no more disturbed by this legislation than we are at most things that they do.

But again, I go back to the fact that the Ontario Progressive Conservatives support a national securities regulator in the province of Ontario. We support its location in the city of Toronto. We are going to continue to support that, but we will not support this legislation. We will not allow the Liberal Party of Ontario to put us into a corner. We will not allow them to divide us through wedge politics. We will make sure that when we form government on October 6, 2011, we push this idea forward and that we work with our federal counterparts to ensure it will happen.

In the short moment I have left, I want to continue to support my colleague from Oxford, again, for doing what no one on that side could do, and that is bring forward a risk management strategy. Because here is the heart of things: As somebody who represents a suburban/rural riding, a risk management strategy for Ontario is important, as is the Toronto national securities regulator in this province. I will continue to champion that. I will continue to support my colleague from Oxford.

I’ve enjoyed this opportunity to debate. Thank you very much.

Debate deemed adjourned.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): Pursuant to standing order 8, this House is in recess until 10:30 of the clock.

The House recessed from 1014 to 1030.

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

Mrs. Maria Van Bommel: I want to introduce Trevor Jones, who is the grandfather of page Emma Redfearn. He’s here and, I’m sure, very proud of what she’s doing here.

Ms. Helena Jaczek: Please welcome, in the west members’ gallery, Josie and Louis Tonazzo. They’re visiting from Sault Ste. Marie, visiting their daughter Stephanie Veitch and family in Stouffville, in the great riding of Oak Ridges–Markham.

Hon. John Wilkinson: I’d like to introduce to the House Julia Hawthorthwaite, who is visiting us today. She’s currently interning in the environmental programs division at the Ministry of the Environment. Julia is in her fourth year studying environmental studies at the University of Waterloo. I just want to take this opportunity to thank Julia and the 50 other interns at MOE for all the hard work they do to make sure that our environment is protected.

Mr. Kevin Daniel Flynn: I’d like to introduce, in the east members’ gallery, some members of the Oakville provincial youth advisory committee who are visiting Queen’s Park today. We’ve got Alex McKeen, Conor Lewis, Steven Rai, Tori Lang, Christine Rankin, Ronnie Allen, former page Natalie LaMarche, and Ellen Bushnik from my staff.

Mr. Tony Ruprecht: I’m delighted to introduce to you His Excellency the consul general of the Republic of Croatia, Mr. Ljubinko Matešić. He’s going to report back on what he hears today to his country. Congratulations, and welcome to Queen’s Park.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Welcome, consul general.

ORAL QUESTIONS

VICTIMS OF CRIME

Mr. Tim Hudak: My question is for the Premier. Premier, yesterday you got caught using taxpayer dollars to pay for enhanced cable packages for prisoners, enhanced cable packages that are unaffordable for many Ontario families. But it goes further than that.

Let me tell you about your bizarre priorities when it comes to victims of crime and criminals. Kellie Smith’s son was brutally murdered. Kellie had to choose between paying the rent or paying for her son’s funeral. She applied to the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board for help over a year ago and is still waiting for an answer. But according to FOI requests received by the Ontario PC caucus, somehow, Premier, you found money to pay for prisoners to take “freeing the human spirit” yoga classes developed by a Zen master. Premier, why are you putting the priorities of criminals ahead of victims of crime?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: I want to remind my honourable colleague—and I would ask that he acknowledge—that we have, in fact, on the matter of this cablevision, put an end to a practice that was begun under the former Conservative government. I think it would be important that he acknowledge that so that Ontarians gain a full appreciation of the foundation of fact on this particular issue.

I think as well that my honourable colleague will acknowledge that we have moved in a number of different directions to enhance public safety in our province, whether that’s investing in more police officers on our streets, whether it’s investing in new, modern jails that better protect the public or a number of other areas.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Tim Hudak: Those answers simply don’t cut it for women like Kellie who have to deal with these tragic circumstances. Not only did she find out that you are paying for enhanced cable packages for prisoners, but you’re paying for 90-minute yoga and meditation classes for prisoners, and you are as well paying for creative writing workshops for prisoners.

FOI records obtained by the Ontario PC caucus say the workshops “offer writing as a cathartic method of clarifying feelings.” Contrast that with Kellie Smith, who has no catharsis for the stress that she lives with while waiting for money to help to pay for student loans and bills that are in arrears because she spent everything she had to pay for the funeral of her murdered son.

Premier, how did you get so out of touch with these warped priorities?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: To the Attorney General.

Hon. Christopher Bentley: Although I won’t speak to an individual case—and my friend will always take up individual cases—we all stand for the rights of victims and their families. We all stand for a system that supports victims and their families.

In this part of the House we’re investing twice as much in victims and victim-related services as that side of the House ever did. We’ve invested almost three quarters of a billion dollars in these services, and constantly look for better. We got advice that the CICB should not only be continued but that we should deal with the backlog which it accumulated over many years.

We’ve dealt with the backlog, but it’s also an adjudicative system, meaning that there is a hearing, meaning that you have to gather documents and meaning that it sometimes takes a while. It’s a lot faster than it ever was under the previous party, and we’re continuing to do it as fast as we can, but it is a process that takes a little while to deal with all the needs and the rights of victims.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Final supplementary.

Mr. Tim Hudak: Back to the Premier: Premier, you had no hesitation in paying for enhanced cable packages for prisoners, for paying for, “freeing the human spirit” yoga classes for prisoners or for paying for cathartic creative writing classes for prisoners. It shows how deeply out of touch you’ve become that you put the criminals ahead of victims of crime like Kellie.

It’s not just Kellie Smith. The minister blithely says, “Oh, you pick cases out of the air.” Minister, real people like Kellie Smith, like Liz Hoage, like Donna Dixon, Wendy Flanagan and Claudette Lalonde, all came to you about not only the tragic loss but the murder of their children, and they were told to wait for sometimes years on end while you pay for yoga classes, creative writing and cable packages for prisoners.

How did you get so dramatically out of touch to put the rights of criminals ahead of crime victims?

Hon. Christopher Bentley: The fact of the matter is that we’re not. We’re doing just the opposite. My friend opposite does not want to remember his past. When did the cable programs come in? Under them. What channel has he been watching? Because they were funding all of those channels. All of the creative programs he talks about were under him. They started it; we stopped it.

It’s a typical theme. A CICB that was not getting the funding it needed under them; a Criminal Injuries Compensation Board that is getting the funding under us. A victims’ justice fund that was accumulating a big surplus under them; a victims’ justice fund that’s spending the funds under us for the benefits of victims.

He stands and speaks for people, but did nothing. We stand and speak for people and actually protect victims, the services they need and the people who need our assistance.

VICTIMS OF CRIME

Mr. Tim Hudak: Back to the Premier: Premier, our FOI requests, which your government tried to delay as long as possible, reveal how you’re spending taxpayer dollars and putting criminals’ rights ahead of those of victims. You have something called the Brain Gym program. You have enhanced yoga classes freeing the human spirit and cathartic creative writing classes.

Why don’t you explain that to Wendy Flanagan? Wendy Flanagan was told by your government, through the compensation board, that they wouldn’t pay her support claim because she didn’t actually see her daughter get murdered and then dismembered. But you pay for criminals to free their human spirit in 90-minute yoga classes designed by a Zen master.

Premier, this is dramatically out of touch. How do you explain to women like Wendy Flanagan, who didn’t get compensation because she didn’t see the murder of her daughter, that you’re paying for these outrageous abuses like yoga classes for prisoners?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: To the Minister of Community Safety.

Hon. James J. Bradley: Of course, what the Leader of the Opposition fails to say is that these programs that are in place were programs which, by and large, were initiated by the previous government, the Conservative government.

I wasn’t being particularly critical of them at the time. I know that they’ve evaluated the programs. Some of these programs are delivered by volunteers. I know that the Salvation Army comes in. I know that representatives of the various churches work with those who are inmates within the system. I know that there are a number of organizations, which are volunteer organizations, charitable organizations and religious organizations, which work with inmates within the system.

What has happened with the premium cable TV is that in many instances, your government brought it in. Our government is now taking it out.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Tim Hudak: Let’s face the facts, Minister. The only reason you were forced to act is because you got caught; you got caught and were forced to act. But real people like Liz Hoage, like Wendy Flanagan, like Claudette Lalonde, who was denied support and told it was because she wasn’t actually there to witness the murder of her son Corey—the same goes for Kellie Smith, who wonders what parent would just stand there and watch their kid being murdered. These women face this experience under the McGuinty government. Simply because they did not witness the murder of their own children, you turn them away and spend on frills like this for the very criminals in prisons in our province.

Why don’t you get your priorities straight and act for these mothers instead of coddling the prisoners in our jails in Ontario?

Hon. James J. Bradley: That is precisely why we are taking out the premium cable TV that in many instances you put into the system in the province of Ontario; that’s precisely why we’re doing it.

The Attorney General has mentioned on this occasion and many other occasions the amount of work that is being done on behalf of victims in the province of Ontario. We remember the huge surplus that was in that fund when the Conservative government was in power. That surplus has diminished considerably with our government in power. We are spending more money on victims’ services. We are serving more victims at this time, as the Attorney General has appropriately pointed out, than your government ever did. We have expanded the program tremendously in this province, with, I think, positive results.

On the other side of it, we are ending some of the practices that you established in our prison system.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Final supplementary.

Mr. Tim Hudak: You know what, Minister? The practice you should end is the practice of denying these mothers access to support simply because they did not see the murder of their children. That is outrageous. Today, you’re paying for Zen yoga classes to give inmates—and this is a description from your very own ministry—“a leisure experience that silences the mind and disciplines the body.”

Meanwhile, there’s no silence for victims of crime like Wendy Flanagan, who lives in a nightmare because she can’t bury her daughter, whose bones are sitting in a forensic lab, or Donna Dixon, who copes with the knowledge that her son was kidnapped, shot, incinerated and put into bags of animal feed.

These are real people, Minister. Will you finally act on behalf of these mothers and quit putting the rights of prisoners ahead of legitimate victims of the most violent crimes?

Hon. James J. Bradley: To the Attorney General.

Hon. Christopher Bentley: We’ve already said in this House—the Premier said and I said—that we’re going to find a way to appropriately deal with these individual cases.

What’s interesting, though, is that the wording in the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board act is the same wording as when the Tories were in power, and they didn’t change it. It’s the same wording, pretty much, that’s been in the act since the beginning.

There’s a recurrent theme here. My friend the Leader of the Opposition stands and complains about something that was in existence under his watch, and he did nothing about it. Then when we deal with it, he is all full of outrage. It’s the cable in prisons that we’re dealing with getting rid of, but he put it in. It’s the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board victim who’s not dealt with as we would all like, but he knew about that before, and we’re fixing it. It’s the victims’ justice fund that he accumulated; we’re distributing it—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

NUCLEAR SAFETY

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is to the Premier. The US Environmental Protection Agency is reporting increased radiation levels in rain water, drinking water and milk across the United States as a result of the nuclear crisis in Japan. Yesterday, when asked whether radiation levels were elevated in Ontario, three ministers didn’t know the answer. The Minister of Energy said that he had heard that radiation levels had increased, but wouldn’t say where, what they were found in or what the levels were. Today, the Premier said that he didn’t even know about the rise in radiation levels.

Why is this government all over the map on what is an important public health issue?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: To the Minister of Energy.

Hon. Brad Duguid: Even on an issue as serious as this, the leader of the third party still says things that aren’t in keeping with the facts.

Here’s the situation: We need to be vigilant with what’s happening in Japan, and we need to ensure that we learn any lessons that can be learned from the terrible tragedy that the Japanese people are still coping with.

The Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission works with respective federal departments like Health Canada to monitor radiation levels across Canada on an ongoing basis. They note that their detections do not pose any risks to Ontarians or Canadians. Our Ontario medical officer of health spoke out yesterday on this, and this is what she had to say: “Based on current information, I am of the view that there is no health risk for Ontarians from the damaged nuclear facility in Japan.

“Canada and Ontario have strong systems in place to protect”—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: It is precisely the facts that Ontarians want about this issue. The public is rightly concerned about the impacts of the Japanese crisis in Ontario. They need full information and transparency about radiation levels in Ontario in order to be reassured and make healthy decisions, yet this government totally dropped the ball in the monitoring and sharing of this important information.

When exactly did the Ontario government find out about the radiation levels that were raised, and why wasn’t the public made aware of that information?

Hon. Brad Duguid: I want to invite the leader of the third party to join us in reassuring Ontario families that indeed there is no health risk involved in this whatsoever, and all the experts who have weighed in to this have made that very clear.

She asks about the information on radiation levels. The information on this is reported on the websites of the federal government through Health Canada, which I believe has it on its website, and the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission. So that information is available. It’s there for the public.

Again, I would invite the leader of the third party to reassure her constituents and families across Ontario that there are no health risks involved in this at this point in time. That’s what all of the experts, from our medical officer of health here in Ontario to the federal agencies that actually have carriage of this particular issue, are saying as well.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: This is a simple matter of transparency and accountability and public health. The Environmental Protection Agency is publicly posting, in real time, radiation levels in milk, rain, drinking water and air for locations across the United States. Health Canada publishes data on radiation in air on its website, but there is no data on radiation levels in milk, water and rain publicly available in Ontario.

When will the government make this important information available to Ontarians?

Hon. Brad Duguid: As I’ve said, the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission and Health Canada take these matters very seriously, as they should. We take these matters very seriously as well. That’s why they post on their websites information as it becomes available.

I want to ask the leader of the third party one more time: Will she join with us in reassuring Ontario families about what Ontario’s medical officer of health is saying, what the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission is saying, what Health Canada is saying, or does she have an alternative motive to bringing forward these questions?

These are legitimate questions. We’re providing responses that are in keeping with the information that the professionals engaged in these areas are providing, and that is that radiation levels in Ontario are not at any kind of an unsafe or unhealthy condition at this point—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

NUCLEAR SAFETY

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My next question is also to the Premier. Media reports indicate that Bruce Power had found increased radioactivity levels in late March. Dr. Ray Copes, the director of environmental protection at the Ontario Agency for Health Protection and Promotion, has been consulting with provincial and federal counterparts on this issue since at least April 1.

How is it, then, that the Ministers of Energy and Health waited almost two weeks until the NDP asked questions in the Legislature before revealing that there was an increase in radioactivity levels in Ontario?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: My honourable colleague is looking for something where there is nothing to be found. I think the single most important thing that we can do today is to send a message on behalf of all members of this Legislature to reassure Ontario families: There is no danger associated with their food; there’s no danger associated with their water; there’s no danger associated with their milk; there’s no danger associated with the air; there’s no danger associated with the environment.

We are relying on the very best expert evidence and advice that we are receiving. The fact of the matter is, what we have today in Ontario is not harmful to our health. That’s an important message that I’m sure my honourable colleague opposite is going to want to join us in sending to Ontario families.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: The message I’m trying to relay to this Premier is that Ontario families actually deserve all of the information on this issue; that’s the important message. Full posting of radioactivity levels in air, water and food—that’s all we want; we want to have all of the information. But the government seems more concerned with dampening fears than with providing full information.

Yesterday, in a hastily prepared press release, the medical officer of health said that there was no risk from radioactivity. Did she review radioactivity levels of air, water, rain and food? And if so, will information on these levels be shared with the public?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: As was anticipated by experts around the world, there was thinking that the radiation that is leaking from a nuclear reactor in Japan would make its way into the atmosphere and migrate into the western hemisphere. So this radiation, which has been referred to as “minuscule” by the experts in terms of its increase—they tell us, in fact, that there is more radiation in a natural rainfall than there is existing today as a result of the occurrence in Japan.

We continue to hear from our experts. They monitor this on a daily basis. They have been anticipating this for a long time. Again I say to my honourable colleague: The last thing we want to do is alarm Ontario families when there is no need to do so. I think our joint responsibility here today is to reassure Ontario families that there is, in fact, no danger to their health whatsoever.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: The government needs to do better in sharing information about radioactivity levels—period. They need to do better about sharing that information. It is not good enough that, more than a month after the Japan earthquake, Ontarians are still not getting full information about changes in radioactivity levels. This is not about fearmongering; it’s about providing full and open information to reassure Ontarians. Americans are getting that full and clear information; Ontarians are simply not getting that full, clear and transparent response from their government.

Will the Premier commit to providing full information on radioactivity levels in milk, rain, drinking water and air to the public now and on an ongoing basis?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: I want to refer my honourable colleague to the news release that was put out just recently by Dr. Arlene King, our chief medical officer of health in Ontario. She says, “I am of the view that there is no health risk to Ontarians from the damaged nuclear facility in Japan.

“Canada and Ontario have strong systems in place to protect the safety of our food supply.

Interjection: It’s been there all along.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: That information has been there all along.

I say to my honourable colleague once more that if she has the opportunity to speak directly to the media today, I would encourage her to send an important, intelligent, thoughtful message to Ontario families: We are in fact safe, based on the best advice we are receiving from our experts here in Ontario and Canada.

VICTIMS OF CRIME

Mr. Garfield Dunlop: To the Minister of Correctional Services: It took the release of freedom-of-information records to the Ontario PC caucus for you to cancel premium cable packages on the prisoners’ high-definition cable TVs. But here are some of the prisoner perks the records from another FOI request show you still find money for: creative writing classes that teach inmates “how to create one’s own story”; yoga classes that give inmates “transferable skills that can be taken back to their cells”; and healthy alternatives to fast food lessons to let you be the nanny Premier, even to criminals.

Meanwhile, you force victims of crime, like Liz Hoage, Wendy Flanagan, Claudette Lalonde, Donna Dixon and Kellie Smith to beg for support to deal with the loss of their murdered children. In the words of Kellie Smith, “How is this fair?”

Hon. James J. Bradley: I can tell the member, first of all, that he is aware that the Attorney General has pointed out very vividly to this House that our government has moved much more extensively and comprehensively in terms of providing assistance to victims of crime. You left a huge surplus in that particular account. You covered far fewer people when you were in government.

The programs you describe are programs which were available to inmates, in many cases, when your government was in power.

If you’re asking that volunteers from the Salvation Army and churches—and I know that the church that I belong to, the United Church, has had volunteers who have gone into the correctional institutions in this province for years and years—withdraw their services, I think you’ll be hearing from those volunteers.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Garfield Dunlop: That wasn’t the question I asked, and Kellie Smith wouldn’t be very happy with that answer, either.

Kellie Smith’s son Patrick was shot while sitting on the couch at a friend’s apartment. Kellie lives paycheque to paycheque and is the sole provider for her 15-year-old daughter. She had to use the rent money to pay for Patrick’s funeral. Over a year ago, she applied to the victims of crime fund for support, but she’s still waiting for an answer.

You open the vault for criminals. You pay so that they have transferable skills to take back to their cells. You want to be the nanny Premier for murderers and crooks. How do you explain spending so much on classes for criminals and perks for prisoners while making victims of crime wait for support?

Hon. James J. Bradley: That’s even over the top for my friend in asking questions.

I think there’s a recognition from the Attorney General of how extensively this government has moved in helping victims. The Attorney General has also given an undertaking to look into individual cases that have been raised either in the media or in this House and will be dealing with that appropriately, with the largesse that has been provided to victims in this province, as it should be.

In terms of the other programs, I really question whether the member truly believes—because he was part of a government that had these programs in effect—that these people who are going to come out of the prison system at some time and come back into the community—they have to be prepared to come back into the community. Your government recognized this when you brought a lot of these programs into effect, so that when they do come out into the community they can be contributing members instead of going back into a life of crime. That was a good policy you had at that time, and I agree with that policy today.

TAXATION

Mr. Peter Tabuns: My question is to the Minister of Finance. Anyone who tuned in to last night’s federal leadership debate saw clearly that when it comes to corporate tax giveaways, the Prime Minister and the Premier of Ontario sing from exactly the same songbook.

This morning, yet another study proves exhaustively that these corporate tax giveaways don’t increase business investment and don’t create jobs.

When will this government finally abandon the discredited tax giveaway policies that it and the Prime Minister cling so stubbornly to and accept the evidence presented in study after study that corporate tax giveaways don’t create jobs?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: I’m proud of the tax package for jobs and growth that our government created. For every dollar of corporate tax cuts, we have more than $2 in personal tax cuts.

I’d refer my colleague opposite to his colleague from Beaches–East York, who quite properly noted that everybody is getting a tax cut.

I’ve said this before to the third party and I will say it again: We are faced with competition from Alberta, from British Columbia, from Saskatchewan. The Ministry of Finance estimates that we are losing between $200 million and $500 million a year in revenue due to tax seepage as a result of the lower corporate tax rates. It is simply a matter of being competitive and simply a matter of creating good, high-paying, new jobs across Ontario—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Peter Tabuns: Minister of Finance, you’re going to have to look at the reality in this world. The facts presented in this latest study of Statistics Canada data by the CCPA couldn’t be more definitive. Business capital spending has declined notably as a share of gross domestic product since the early 1980s, despite repeated tax cuts.

When study after study shows that there are far better ways to create jobs than corporate tax cuts, why is this government walking lockstep with Stephen Harper while ignoring everyone else?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: The member opposite—I’ve read the study—is completely misinterpreting the study. He’s just taking it completely out of context, isolating certain variables and not being completely candid with the people of Ontario. What I will refer him to are the Q3 results for Ontario, which saw business, machinery and equipment investments up 7.7%—a record—since we have been implementing that.

I think the only people out of touch are the New Democrats, who don’t want to deal with unemployed steelworkers in Hamilton. They want to say, “Stay unemployed.” They don’t want to deal with unemployed auto workers throughout southwestern Ontario; they’d rather create jobs in Alberta. They don’t want to deal with the unemployed in northern Ontario, in the pulp and paper industry; they’d rather create jobs in other provinces. Not this government; we’re going to continue to do the right thing by investing in health, investing in education—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

ANTI-BULLYING INITIATIVES

Ms. Helena Jaczek: My question is for the Minister of Education. Minister, today is the international Day of Pink. This is an internationally recognized day against bullying, discrimination and homophobia. I know all members in this House agree that there is no place for bullying in our schools, places of work or communities.

Minister, parents in my riding of Oak Ridges–Markham have been contacting me as they want to know that when they send their child to school, they’re going to be learning in a safe and positive environment, free from discrimination and bullying. We know that in order for students to learn, they need to feel safe at school.

Minister, what can I tell my constituents who want to know that their government is standing up to combat bullying in Ontario schools for Ontario students?

Hon. Leona Dombrowsky: An important question, and I know that all members in this House have heard from constituents who are very concerned about bullying. The fact is, it’s important that this government has taken action, through our safe schools strategy legislation that was passed here, to deal with issues of bullying in schools.

Now we know that bullying, for example, is something in schools that—students can be suspended for acts of bullying. Parents of students—both those who would be guilty of doing it and the students who would have been victims—must be notified.

We continue, as a government, to work with our schools and school boards to increase that knowledge and understanding of bullying issues and to build capacity on how best to deal with these issues and ensure that they—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Ms. Helena Jaczek: I think we can all appreciate that bullying needs to be combated at the root cause, which is primarily because of indifference, misunderstanding and fear.

Minister, the roots where the Day of Pink began were with two grade 12 students in Nova Scotia who stood up for a grade 9 student who was being bullied because he wore a pink shirt to school. Through the leadership of the grade 12 students, the next day, the majority of the school population was wearing pink shirts to combat bullying. Because of their leadership, adults across Canada and around the world now wear pink as a symbol that bullying is not acceptable in any form. This type of leadership is both inspirational and necessary to confront the important issue of homophobia in our schools.

Minister, what can I tell parents in my riding that we are doing to work toward students no longer being targets, specifically of homophobic bullying, in Ontario’s schools?

Hon. Leona Dombrowsky: Of course, homophobia is absolutely unacceptable. To help combat homophobia in our schools, we have brought in the first equity and inclusive strategy that requires school boards to have policies in place to combat discrimination based on race, age, gender, disability or sexual orientation.

The member is absolutely right when she says that this is the type of leadership we need—the leadership that those students in Nova Scotia demonstrated. That is why we have made very clear in our policy that student-led groups to deal with these issues must be allowed in schools where students have said this is what they want.

We are committed to working to build capacity to work with school boards and, most definitely, with students in our schools to deal—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

VICTIMS OF CRIME

Mr. Garfield Dunlop: This question is to the Premier. Premier, for the second time this week, you’ve been caught red-handed trying to fool Ontario families. First, the Ontario PC caucus caught you trying to hide expenses by posting them under the names of other people in your office. Then you tried to take credit for cancelling premium cable packages at provincial jails the same day that the Ontario PC caucus obtained freedom-of-information records that revealed what you have been up to. Premier, what made you think you would get away with this?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: To the Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services.

Hon. James J. Bradley: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker—

Interjection.

Hon. James J. Bradley: I hear the member for Lanark interjecting here, the member who personally ensured that Norm Sterling, a long-standing—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Members will please come to order.

Please continue.

Hon. James J. Bradley: The member for Mississippi Mills would understand, being a long-serving member of this Legislature and having served in the justice portfolio, that this government, when in power, had many of these programs available to people, largely delivered by volunteers in our society.

Many members of this House belong to churches and volunteer organizations that have gone into the system over the years and ensured that the people who were in there, when they were coming out of the system—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Garfield Dunlop: First of all, high-definition TV didn’t even exist a decade ago. You were caught red-handed in a clumsy scheme to try and fool Ontario families. It didn’t even occur to you to cancel premium cable for inmates until you had to release the FOI records to the Ontario PC caucus. Even then, you sat on the FOI records for as long as you could. They were 137 days overdue. We had to threaten to haul the Minister of Correctional Services in front of the privacy commissioner before you were forced to release them.

When you did release them, you panicked and ran throughout the halls of this building trying to quiet the media, and we’ve never seen you run that fast. Is it any wonder you say that crime isn’t a priority when you plot and scheme so hard to hide what you’ve been up to?

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Stop the clock. I will just remind members on both sides, in the questioning and the answering, that policy is what we need to discuss and not bring things down to a personal level in a question or a personal level in an answer—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): The member from Hamilton East.

I would just caution both honourable members about that.

Minister.

Hon. James J. Bradley: Thank you very much for that caution.

I appreciate the fact that the critic for the Conservative Party would think that I could move that quickly in the hallways of Queen’s Park. I’m not in as good physical condition as the member or the House leader for the Conservative Party. But I can tell you that—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Stop the clock. The member from Peterborough and the member from Lanark: The question and answer was between the member from Simcoe North and the Minister of Community Safety, not between Lanark and Peterborough. If you want to have a discussion, please don’t interfere in the question and answer and don’t interfere for our guests who want to be here. Take your discussions outside this chamber.

Minister?

Hon. James J. Bradley: I’ve been in opposition, so I know the kinds of questions you have to ask in opposition, even when the questions are those which ask the present government to fix a problem that the last government created.

Let us clarify one more time for the House. You put the premium cable in the correctional institutes; this government is taking the premium cable out—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Perhaps the member from Renfrew may want to reflect on his comments.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Stop the clock.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Please come to order. New question.

CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is to the Premier. The budget announced the closure of three supposedly underutilized and inefficient jails: in Sarnia, Owen Sound and Walkerton. This announcement came as a complete surprise. In Sarnia, the jail has been operating at more than 100% capacity. It is the newest small jail in the province and it is part of a comprehensive justice system serving not only Sarnia and surrounding communities but also plays a major role in border security. Can the Premier explain why, then, his government made this decision without a shred of evidence?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: To the Minister of Community Safety.

Hon. James J. Bradley: I’m somewhat surprised to hear this question coming from the New Democratic Party that they want us to keep old prisons, inefficient prisons which are not serving the purposes of the province of Ontario in light of our economic circumstances—that you want us to keep those open.

We do know that the Conservative government, when it was in power, closed about 25 jails in the province of Ontario. We recognize that. I suspect that there might have been some jails—I can’t say for sure—that might have been closed under the New Democratic Party.

We are looking for ways to save money in this province, to devote that money to health care, education and other very constructive activities. We’ve looked at the old buildings, inefficient buildings, and revised the system, and we hope to have the efficiencies that can be channelled back into those—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: The problem is that this particular decision makes no financial sense. This government has ignored the cost of transporting prisoners between Sarnia and Windsor, an over two-hour drive each way. This government has ignored the concerns of First Nations communities who have worked hard to develop appropriate local supports in this jail. They’ve ignored the important financial contribution that the $6 million in corrections wages brings to the community as a whole. If the Premier had bothered to talk to the local community, he would actually know all of this.

Now that he knows, will the Premier re-evaluate these closures?

Hon. James J. Bradley: I would point out to the member that the Sarnia jail was built over 50 years ago and requires more than $1 million in capital investments. It costs $180 per day to house an inmate in the Sarnia jail. It will cost an estimated $125 per day to house those same inmates in the new Windsor jail when it opens in 2013. This represents a savings of approximately 30% to Ontario taxpayers.

The Ministry of Correctional Services and Community Safety officials, when asked to look at ways to find efficiencies and save money, provided information to the ministry—to the minister, in this particular case—and the decisions are based on those statistics provided by ministry officials.

PHOTO IDENTIFICATION

Mr. Dave Levac: My question is for the Minister of Transportation. There are citizens in this province who do not have access to a driver’s licence. Approximately 1.5 million Ontarians aged 16 years and older do not have a valid driver’s licence.

I have heard from and worked with many of my constituents, including the CNIB and the Canadian Council of the Blind representatives, about the need to have a proper photo ID. These constituents are from all walks of life but, for some reason or other, either cannot or choose not to have a driver’s licence. Some just don’t own a car.

These fine folks find it very difficult to access the most basic services which require a particular photo ID. Some may know that many people are forced to carry their passports as a form of ID; that’s not recommended.

This is certainly not a new situation. Previous governments never attempted to remedy this. Can the minister please provide an update on the status for a non-driver photo ID card?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: This is really a very important issue for people who don’t have a driver’s licence in Ontario, and it has been this way for decades. We know that a photo ID—if you have a driver’s licence, there are a whole lot more things you can do than if you don’t have a driver’s licence: opening a new bank account, cashing a cheque, applying for a loan, gaining admittance to certain bars and clubs, boarding a domestic flight.

I’ve had meetings with the Canadian National Institute for the Blind, the Canadian Council of the Blind and numerous other groups who are concerned about this. It’s really not just an administration issue; it’s a social justice issue, and we’re working with groups to make sure that we can move forward on it.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Dave Levac: I reinforce my point: Previous governments did nothing about this issue whatsoever. I want to thank the minister for moving forward on it and taking into account these folks who don’t drive and thus do not have photo IDs and drivers’ licences: Ontarians such as seniors and those with special needs, or those who don’t own a car.

It’s too often our most vulnerable populations that are left with the least options needed to level that playing field. This legislation, if passed, would address exactly the type of situation so that the people who do not have a driver’s licence, who cannot obtain a driver’s licence or who decide not to drive have a proper piece of photo identification with them.

I’ve been working on this issue for a long time, and I’m glad to see that this government is doing something about it. That’s why there’s such a need for this photo ID. Ontario and Quebec are the only provinces in the country that don’t have this yet. I’m confident that we’re going to get an answer. Given the—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Minister?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Thank you to the member for Brant for working on this file. When I was first appointed to this ministry, one of the first meetings I had, actually, was with the CNIB, who brought forward this issue.

We need to make sure that the photo card has the right features on it. There have to be some special features, particularly for people with visual impairments. There are some significant IT requirements that need to be in place through ServiceOntario in order to be able to issue these cards.

I’m going to be bringing forward an update to the House very soon. I just want to reinforce that we consider this a priority for people who, throughout their whole lives, have not been able to have the kind of ID that someone who has a driver’s licence is able to have.

AIR AMBULANCE SERVICE

Mr. Frank Klees: My question is to the Premier. The Minister of Health dismissed my previous question on the costs related to the air ambulance and critical care land ambulance organization. I’m hoping the Premier will take this more seriously.

Capital expenses attributed to Ornge for the 2008-09 fiscal year were $2.25 million. In 2009-10 they increased to $8.6 million, followed by another increase for 2010-11 to more than $12 million.

My question to the Premier is this: How much of that taxpayer-funded capital has subsidized equipment and facilities that are actually being used by the for-profit businesses that are also owned by the Ornge organization?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: To the Minister of Finance.

Hon. Dwight Duncan: The Minister of Health is rightly proud of the achievements of the new Ornge ambulance service, which is expanding air ambulance service across the province and, as I understand it, doing it in a very, very efficient way.

I am delighted that, in fact, there is new capital and new air ambulances are available to serve remote communities. Just yesterday in my community, a little boy was hit by a car backing up, and it was an Ornge ambulance that took him from Windsor to the best care available anywhere in the world, in London.

Those investments are important. The return to taxpayers is important. It’s measured by a variety of factors, including improved service and improved care for all of our people.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Frank Klees: No one is arguing about the importance of air ambulance.

This is the annual report for this organization. In every one of its pages, there is not one reference to financial information, not one, yet 12 million of taxpayers’ dollars have been transferred to this company. They have just moved into a new $3-million facility.

I am asking this of the Premier: How many health care dollars transferred to Ornge are being used to subsidize parts of this business that are for-profit, that are owned by this Ornge organization? Can he tell me that, or does he know?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: I can assure the Legislature and the people of Ontario that the contractual arrangements with Ornge protect the interest of taxpayers unequivocally. We believe that these investments—and this is one of the reasons we engaged Ornge. You can see their new facilities at the Toronto Island airport. You can see the air ambulances themselves throughout the province of Ontario.

I’m glad the member opposite is talking about how money is used and where this money gets found, because the people of Ontario would like to know where we’re going to find the $3 billion in cuts in health care if they cut the HST. I can assure the—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): The member from Renfrew will withdraw the comment that he made.

Mr. John Yakabuski: I don’t know how he can keep lying about that.

Interjections.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Withdraw.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Minister?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: I can assure the people of Ontario that the arrangements with Ornge are proper. The service is outstanding, and by the way, when that member and his party were in office, they refused to make the appropriate investments in air ambulance service, particularly to the north, that were so desperately needed.

HERITAGE CONSERVATION

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is to the Premier. Members of the Algonquin Nation, including Algonquin Firekeeper Daniel Bernard, are here at Queen’s Park again today. They are frustrated with the government’s refusal to listen to their concerns about clear-cutting in the Ottawa South March Highlands. For months, they’ve been calling for the Minister of Culture to conduct a new archaeological study on the site to protect sacred aboriginal artifacts, but the government has refused flatly to address any of their concerns.

In the meantime, the area is being clear-cut for new development. Instead of showing such disrespect to First Nations, will the government halt the destruction at this site while a new and proper study is actually conducted?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: To the Minister of Tourism and Culture.

Hon. Michael Chan: Thank you for the question. The city of Ottawa is the approval authority for the South March Highlands development. It is solely responsible for the decision to require an archaeological assessment. Under the Ontario Heritage Act, my ministry approves the licensing of consultant archaeologists. As well, my ministry reviews their archaeology assessments.

In the case of the South March Highlands, the assessment in question was completed under the 1993 standards and guidelines. My ministry reviewed the archaeological assessments of the site in 2004. I understand that the city had asked the developer to engage the local aboriginal—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: The reality is that the South March Highlands is a diverse and valuable ecosystem, home to many species at risk. Many community groups, along with First Nations, have raised their voices and come together to oppose the razing of this area for development.

This government has ignored significant evidence of archaeological artifacts in the South March Highlands. In fact, the Minister of Culture has accepted an archaeological study which he refers to, commissioned by the developer, a study which has been called by other archaeologists “fatally flawed.” In fact, an award-winning archaeologist, Robert McGhee, labelled it “fatally flawed.”

Before the final trees are cut down, will the Premier finally demand that a new and proper study be conducted?

Hon. Michael Chan: When any artifacts are found on the land, the developer has the responsibility to hire a licensed archaeologist to complete an archaeological assessment. The licensed archaeologist is then required to report their findings to the ministry. I have confirmed this in writing to several interested parties. With that said, my ministry is not an approval authority with respect to any development project. My ministry’s role is to review archaeological assessments conducted by consultant archaeologists.

My ministry also licenses consultant archaeologists under the Ontario Heritage Act. It is responsible for decisions regarding the needs—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

CONVENTION CENTRES

Mr. Yasir Naqvi: My question is also for the Minister of Tourism and Culture. Minister, yesterday we had the great pleasure of watching my city’s new jewel, the Ottawa Convention Centre, officially open its doors, and it is spectacular.

As the economy continues to be a priority for families across this province, a convention centre is a smart investment to drive key sectors of our economy with new jobs and new opportunities. That is because convention centres are more than just a piece of our civic landscape; they are constantly alive with people, attracting regional, national and international events and conferences. These visitors, in turn, create new jobs—jobs that are critical in my riding of Ottawa Centre.

Could the minister tell my constituents and the people of Ontario what this government has been doing to support convention centres as a key driver for tourism—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Minister?

Hon. Michael Chan: I want to thank the honourable member for the question. He’s right: It is a spectacular building there.

Investments in convention centres stimulate business and contribute to our province’s economy. Across North America, the convention business is worth more than $263 billion. This is an industry that creates and supports jobs.

Speaker, allow me to give you some numbers. Since 2003, we have invested across this province $60 million to redevelop the Ottawa Convention Centre, $35 million to construct the Scotiabank—

Interjections.

Hon. Michael Chan: As the economy turns the corner, our investment is putting Ontario in the minds of conventioneers—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Yasir Naqvi: It’s important that we recognize the economic benefits of investing in convention centres. Equally important is a vision for an Ontario that welcomes people from across Canada and around the world to come visit, experience, and enjoy the amazing things this province has to offer.

However, our investment must also yield results. When we invest, Ontario families want to see the difference our investment is making in their community and know that their government is making smart, reasoned investments on their behalf. They must see the jobs it creates and the increased numbers of tourists that are coming to our community. I can certainly say that the Ottawa Convention Centre is already attracting international attention, and we have seen the people who have been hard at work making it worthy of that attention.

Could the minister share with the House some of the tangible economic—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Minister?

Hon. Michael Chan: Our investments are making a difference for families. Yesterday, I attended the opening of the Ottawa Convention Centre with the Premier and the honourable member from Ottawa Centre. All our partners agree on the economic benefits. In Ottawa, the projected economic impact is $200 million, supporting 3,000 new jobs.

National and international events are also coming to Ottawa, events such as the National Hockey League’s 2012 all-star game.

In the Niagara region, our investment in the Scotiabank Convention Centre is creating jobs. It is projected to inject $93 million into Niagara’s economy, creating more than 200 direct jobs.

There is no doubt that our investment is creating strong jobs for families across—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

MUNICIPAL PLANNING

Ms. Sylvia Jones: My question is for the Minister of Natural Resources. As you know, in March, an application for a quarry operation in the township of Melancthon was filed with your ministry. This application, at over 2,300 acres, is the largest in Ontario’s history.

The comment period ending on April 26 does not give Melancthon enough time to prepare a comprehensive submission. The township is finding it difficult to assemble a team of experts to assist them on such a large application. Also, the notice of application did not appear in the Dundalk Herald, the only weekly publication which covers the northern half of Melancthon.

Minister, will you commit today to extending the deadline for comments to August 26 so that the township of Melancthon has an opportunity to—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Minister?

Hon. Linda Jeffrey: I’m pleased to answer the question. I understand there has been local concern expressed about the aggregate licence application from the Highland Companies in Melancthon township.

I can confirm that our local district office has received a licence application. I want to make it clear that now is the time for local citizens who have concerns about this project to become involved in the consultation process. Groups or individuals have 45 days, or until April 26, to register concerns or objections to the proposal through the environmental website. It can also be accessed via my ministry website.

I can tell you that I did meet with a delegation from Melancthon township on February 28 of this year at the ROMA/Ontario Good Roads Association conference. I know the council is concerned, and I want to ensure that their residents’ concerns are addressed.

I’d be happy to answer further in the supplementary.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Ms. Sylvia Jones: Minister, when you met with Melancthon, I understand that they did share their concerns that they were having difficulty finding these experts, in some cases because they had already been hired by the proponent.

I want to ensure that the residents of Melancthon and North Dufferin actually get an opportunity to involve themselves in the process. This is a huge operation that is of a scale never seen in Ontario. I think it is incumbent on you to make the opportunity for residents and the township to actually have the time needed so that they can review the application properly. I would hope that, with the 10 resolutions I will send over to you now from townships in both Simcoe and Dufferin, you would seriously consider their—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Minister?

Hon. Linda Jeffrey: Even before the application was submitted, I know that this proposed quarry was the subject of significant local media attention. Residents are concerned about the preservation, I understand, of agricultural land and the quarry’s effect on the water table. The Aggregate Resources Act has a process that gives the applicant up to two years, until March 2013, to resolve any of the objections to the application. If there are still unresolved objections to the licence application after that two-year period, the Ministry of Natural Resources can refer the application to the Ontario Municipal Board.

We are at the very early stages of this application, and I would encourage anyone with an interest in this aggregate proposal to become involved in the consultation process. I’m interested in what they have to say about the application, and I encourage all members to participate.

EDUCATION FUNDING

Mr. Rosario Marchese: My question is to the Minister of Education. The Toronto District School Board will be discussing the issue of allowing TV advertising in high schools tonight, again. Schools across Ontario are starved for cash and are being forced to consider exposing students to corporate advertising. The Toronto District School Board is proposing to download this decision to individual schools. Does the minister agree that the decision to allow TV advertising should be left up to local schools?

Hon. Leona Dombrowsky: Actually, the honourable member would know that we have made a commitment that we are going to be bringing forward draft regulations around corporate involvement in our schools in Ontario. We feel that it’s absolutely appropriate that we do have a look at how corporations are involved in our schools, particularly given that this government has made such significant investments to support education in our schools. We’ve increased funding by 40%. That, in our view, has a significant impact on the need for schools to consider these types of partnerships.

We do recognize that there may be particular circumstances in situations where it would be appropriate. We think that it is something that does need to have guidelines, and that is why our government is committed to ensuring that we put those in place for the good of the school community and the students and families who would be involved.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Rosario Marchese: We have spoken to trustees, to parents, to student trustees, and they are expressing utter frustration that there are still no clear provincial rules on corporate advertising for our school boards. While your ministry takes years to develop guidelines, schools have to scramble to bring in revenue. When will the ministry show leadership—any kind of leadership—and establish clear guidelines and prevent students from being used as targets for corporate advertising?

Hon. Leona Dombrowsky: I’m very happy to have this opportunity to make clear for the member opposite that this is an issue that we have been dealing with, that we have shown leadership on. As a result of that, we now have guidelines that very clearly describe student fees and what is appropriate for student fees. We now have draft guidelines on our website around fundraising in our schools, and we are eager to get the feedback from all of those stakeholder groups, like students and parents and trustees, around what is appropriate in terms of fundraising and the guidelines that are needed.

And this year, we are going to be bringing out draft guidelines that deal with corporate involvement in our schools. We think this is fair. We think it is appropriate at this time, particularly since we have made such significant increased investments in our schools. We are now spending fully 40% more in our education system than ever before. We think that now is the time to deal with these issues.

DEFERRED VOTES

TIME ALLOCATION

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): We have a deferred vote on the motion by Ms. Smith for allocation of time on Bill 173,

An Act respecting 2011 Budget measures, interim appropriations and other matters.

Call in the members. This will be a five-minute bell.

The division bells rang from 1134 to 1139.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Members please take their seats.

On April 12, Ms. Smith moved government notice of motion 56. All those in favour will rise one at a time and be recorded by the Clerk.

Ayes

Albanese, Laura

Arthurs, Wayne

Balkissoon, Bas

Bartolucci, Rick

Bentley, Christopher

Berardinetti, Lorenzo

Best, Margarett

Bradley, James J.

Broten, Laurel C.

Brown, Michael A.

Carroll, Aileen

Chan, Michael

Chiarelli, Bob

Colle, Mike

Crozier, Bruce

Dickson, Joe

Dombrowsky, Leona

Duguid, Brad

Duncan, Dwight

Flynn, Kevin Daniel

Gerretsen, John

Gravelle, Michael

Hoskins, Eric

Hoy, Pat

Jaczek, Helena

Jeffrey, Linda

Johnson, Rick

Kwinter, Monte

Leal, Jeff

Levac, Dave

Mauro, Bill

McGuinty, Dalton

Meilleur, Madeleine

Milloy, John

Mitchell, Carol

Murray, Glen R.

Naqvi, Yasir

Orazietti, David

Phillips, Gerry

Pupatello, Sandra

Ramal, Khalil

Ramsay, David

Rinaldi, Lou

Ruprecht, Tony

Sandals, Liz

Sergio, Mario

Smith, Monique

Sorbara, Greg

Sousa, Charles

Takhar, Harinder S.

Van Bommel, Maria

Wilkinson, John

Wynne, Kathleen O.

Zimmer, David

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Those opposed?

Nays

Arnott, Ted

Bailey, Robert

Barrett, Toby

Bisson, Gilles

Chudleigh, Ted

Clark, Steve

DiNovo, Cheri

Dunlop, Garfield

Gélinas, France

Hampton, Howard

Hardeman, Ernie

Hillier, Randy

Horwath, Andrea

Hudak, Tim

Jones, Sylvia

Klees, Frank

Kormos, Peter

MacLeod, Lisa

Marchese, Rosario

Martiniuk, Gerry

Miller, Norm

Miller, Paul

Munro, Julia

O’Toole, John

Ouellette, Jerry J.

Prue, Michael

Savoline, Joyce

Shurman, Peter

Tabuns, Peter

Witmer, Elizabeth

Yakabuski, John

The Clerk of the Assembly (Ms. Deborah Deller): The ayes are 54; the