Volume 1 I \ ' PROVINCE OF NEWFOUNDLAND THIRTY-sEVENTH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND 1st. Session VERBATIM REPORT TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 25, 1975 SPEAKER; THE HONOURABLE GERALO RYAN OTTENHEIMER Number 3

~ovember 25, 1975 The House met at ):00 P.M. '1r. SpcaJ,er in the r:hair. Tape 38 On behalf of han. members I would like to welcome to the gallery students from St. Martin's Central High St.hcnl in Dunville, Placentia Bay. I understand there are forty-six of them and 1 do not immediately see them, so perhaps they have not gotten here as of yet.

However if they come they shall certainly be made welcome. t have been informed as well and wish to call to the attention of hon. members of the composition of the Internal Economy Commission, and the Commission is composed of the ~peaker 9 the Chairman of Committees of the House of Assembly, the hon. Minister of Mines and Energy, the hon, Minister of Provincial Affairs and Environment and the han. Minister without Portfolio. PETITIONS: _MR. R. SIMMONS: I would like to present a petition on behalf of several hundred residents of Harbour Breton,which Yas in my former difltrict of Hermitage.

I am presenting it rather than the metnber who presently represents that community because it is addressed to me, and it came to me just after the close of the House last Spring. The prayer of the petition is that the government provide without .-mv further delay a dental facility at Harbour Breton. The petitioners !>:w in part.

"We are deeply concerned with the dental health of our children and the high cost of having to go to Grand Falls,~ the latter being a reference to the fact that !f they want tooth extraction or any other dental att~ntion they must travel wCll over one hundred miles to the nearest dentist at Grand Falls. This situation, of course, has gone on for quite some time. It has been brought to the attention of the Department of Health on a number of occasions. Indeed when the present member for Kilbride (Mr.

Wells) tras the Minister of Health I had occasion to write him on this matter, and he acknowledged the letter saying that they would be taking it under advisement and that kind of thing. But I would like at this time to invite the present Hinister of llealth to bring us up to date~ if he would.,on what is being done to 92

November 25, 1975 Tape 38 PK- 2 provide dental facilities at Harbour Breton and at other points along the coast. It is kind of a circular argument which I will not go into now, a chicken and an egg type situation,where government keeps saying, "We will find the dentists if you will find the facilities," and sometimes says vice versa, "We will find the facilities if we could find the dentists." I believe, Mr. Speaker, the time has come for the government to stop speaking with a forked tongue, as we say, and to say where it stands on this particular issue.

The people along the Southwest coast are in desperate need of proper dental facilities,dental services, and are entitled to them. Much has been made about the dental clinic, the morile clinic which was provided last Spring. It is a good idea if it were located in a part of the Province where it could be of most use, and I would submit that may well be the Southwest coast. In any event, Mr. Speaker, t heartedly endorse the prayer of this petition and present it to the House and request that it be referred to the appropriate department. HR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Fortune-Hermitage. MR. J. WINSOR: Mr. Speaker.

I would like to also endorse the hon. member for Burgee- Bay D'Espoir (Hr. Simmons) who presents this petition. The lack of dental services on the coast,as he points out, is certainly extreme. Kids have no chance 1nor grownups either, for that matter, to get dental services regularly. A mobile clinic did appear once I think last year. I think it should be more often than this~ certainly twice a year for the kids to get proper chec~ps.

The whole Connaigre Peninsular is in the same area,of course,as Harbour Breton, and my own hometown of Gaultois - it is almost impossible for them to get dental services without travelling long distances. That mobile clinic 93

Tape :lo, 19 TB-l coulrl very "k'Pll t"OT'le to Hf'tmHage <lS well nnd hP 0f p,rf'nt heneftt to our c:h!ltlren who cnrtnlnly nc('d the dental cnrc. hc.1rt i 1 y support the pPtitlon of ttw hon. member for nurgeo-Bay ))'FBpo{r (Hr. Simmons). Ttwnr you. MIL SPEAKEP: The hon. Mlnister of HeaJth. llON, ll. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, in rising to comment on the petition jnst rresenterl by the hnn. memher for - LaPniJe? - nnd supported by the Hurpeo - I hnvf' to get the districts straightener! out. And supported by the hnn. member for Fortune-Hermitage (Nr. J. H"insor). 1-lON. W.

DOf!DY (MINISTER OF FINANCE) : Can we not r.et a map or HR. COLLINS: We will hAve to r,et a map, Mr. fpeaker, somewhere because - HON. A.J. MURPHY (MINISTER Of PPOVINCIAL AFFAIRS AND ENVIRONMENT): And a uniform. rm. COLLINS: - those fe 1 1 ows have been running nround in so many clistrlcts it fs difficult to keep track of them. But, in response tn the petition 1.dth repard tC'I dental services in Harbour Breton, 1 am not in a position at the moment to make any comment with regard to H:ubour Breton.

Rut T would want to ~o on recorrl in saying that ve hwt recently were successful in obtaininf!; a dent 1st for Glovertown nnd fnr Hnlvrood. Those twn gentlemP.n lo'ere in plaee this past week. T would nlso like to inform the House that as a re~mlt of reC"ruitment work wh:lrh was done by my predecessor, six dentists were rec-ruited fro:m GreiF HritJnn nnd came to the Provlncc this past Sutll!fl'ler. Unfortunately only one of them stayed.

We are having some dlfflculty in tet"ms of gettinr. dentists to ap,ree to go to and practice in some of the rural parts of the Province. 1 agree with the need for the se"rvire nnd certninly we are 1eaving no stone unturned. One of the reasons, ~lr. Speaker. fs because they do not pnrticularly llke the outportt• of Newfoundland, Hhy that is I do not know because I lovP that sectJon of the country~ but the dentists do not seem to w:mt to prt~ctirc there, But lo'e are doing our best to cotre up with th£> necessary people to perform the service# 94

November 25, 1975 Tnpe No. 39 IB-2 MR. SPEAKEP: The hon. member for LaPoile (Hr. Neary). }ffi. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, as one of the members who represent a Southwest CoaGt district • Sir, 1 wholeheartedly endorse the prayer of this petition, Sir. I am very alarmed over the fact that this year only three Newfoundlanders will be accepted into Dalhousie Dental School. I clo not know if the minister is aware of that. He probably is. And last year no Newfoundlanders were accepted. The reason given was because of lack of accommodations at the Dalhousie Dental School. T understand, Mr.

Speaker, that they are trying to improve their situation by the four Atlantic Provinces getting together and each province contributing towards the financing of a ne~ dental school which may or roay not make more dentists available for Newfoundland. But it is a very serious problem. Sir, and I do not think the problem will be solved unless and until this new dental school is built for the Atlantic Provinces so that more Newfoundland students can be turned out as dentists.

I think this is the only way we are going to solve the medical doctor problem in Newfoundland and it is probably the only way we are going to solve the dental problem in the out ports. You have to get Newfoundlanders who tmderstand the local psychology, who are prepared to make the sacrifices and go into these rural arena and these isolnted communities.

So, 1 support the prayer of the petition, Sir, and 1 do hope that the Hinister of Health will do everything within his power to see that the prayer of this petition is answered, not only for Harbour Breton but for a11 the communities along the Southwest Coast that have been neglected for so long. AN liON, ME}ffiER: l-lear! Hear! On motion petition recelverl for referral to the department to which it relates. MR. SPEAKER: Before proceeding, once a~nin I would like on behalf of bon. trembers to welcome to the galleries !'>ome forty-six studt:;nts from St. H:trtin's Srhool in Dunville.

Actually at the beginning of proceedings 1 should inform the students I Oicl in fnct welcome them on behalf of all hon. members on all sides of the House but that was 95

NflvPmht:>r 25, 1975 Tnre No. 39 done more quickly than entrnnce by the young people concernecl. Rut certrdnly T know th<Jt nll hon. members welcome them nnd hope that their vh;Jt here ~ill be fnJ;tructive and enjoyable. 96

November 25, 1975 Tape no. 40 Page l - mw MR. SPEAKER: I would also like to note and to welcome to the House Mr. Jack Marshall, the Member of Parliament for the District of Humber- St. George's- St. Barbe. Are there any further petitions? PRESEh1ING REPORTS BY STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES: MR. SPEAKER: The han. Minister of Finance. HON. W. DOODY (Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, I have at this time the responsibility of tabling various special warrants which were necessary during the year.

Under Legislative heading, a warrant of $45.000 which comprises of salaries of $35fooo. which were mainly the Ombudsman's office, the setting up of the Ombudsman's office, $35,000 of that $45,000. Manpower and Industrial Relations, a total amount of $170,000 was mostly involved in the extra funds that were required to cover the expenses of the Buchans Task Force. Under Education there is a $12,200,000 warrant, $10 million of which were for the salaries of teachers 1 and superintendents' salary increases 9 and the other $2,200,000 was the extra operational grants to school boards which we discussed yesterday.

Justice had a special warrant of $400,000, which was required, Sir, for that very necessary and very important event which occurred in September. the election which returned this admirable group to office. Under Rehabilitation and Recreation~ there is a $250,000 special warrant which was required for trading supplies and produce for Labrador Services. A $250,000 amount was due mainly for the cost of supplies and produce for depot operations, which have increased by fifteor per cent as all costs have increased during the year. and the volume of supplies has increased tremendously also.

Under Health we have a warrant for $13 million. Additional funds were required for two subdivisions within that Department of Health 1 or that department. We had an operating cost of hospitals not operated by government of $10 million, and we had the extra costs involved in the Newfoundland Medical Care Commission of $3 million, both of which,once again, Sir, were discussed yesterday in the Budget Speech. Under Fisheries there were three special warrants totalling $3,729,000~ part of which Yas~for 97

NnvcmhPr 25, l97S Tape no. 40 2 special fish plant water systems; DREE. $1.6 million. This is a nin!~ty/ten arrangement most of which will be recovered. The ninety ner cent will be recovered, There is an additional amount of $1.4 million for fishing gear replacement for fishing gear lost by fishermen due to ice conditions in the Spring and Summer of 1974. These additional funds were needed for payment of residual claims within the Government of Canada for $1.350,000.

And there is an additional DREE water systems amount of $639,000 once again, which is a special warrant, which is a nin~ty/tcn agreement recoverable. Under Transportation and Communications we have a special warrant of $2.5 million, $1.5 million which was an extra amount needed for salaries in the Highways and Bridges Division of that department, and 1 think it showed admirable restraint, particularly in an election year. It is most unusual and most responsible. Summer maintenance costs are up $500,000 and Winter maintenance $500,000 for a total, Your Honour, of $2.5 million. These amounts 1 will table, Sir.

I have got three seta of copies, which I will table in the bon. House. 1 am not quite sure how they will be distributed. because I am not quite sure about the make-up of the other side of the House right now. But as the situation resolves itself over the coming year, 1 am sure we will know exactly how many copies will be necessary to be tabled, And if I may, I will pass these three sets out now and if extra ones are necessary they can be provided, Thank you, Sir. ORAL QUESTIONS: MR. SPEAKER: The bon. member for LaPoile, MR. NE.ARY: Sir, 1 would J ike to direct a question to the bon. Premier.

Would the bon, Premier tell the House what plans, if any, his government have or propose to try and increase productivity in this Province and cope with the almost 300,000 man-days lost through work stoppages outlined in the budget yesterday? HON. F. D. MOORES (Premier): Mr. Speaker, as the bon, member well knows that hopefully will be the purpose of this session whereby we will be talking about the various programmes that will be coming into effect, to talk about 98

November 25, 1975 Tape no. 40 Page our future. Also to talk about what anti-inflation positions we will be taking, together with the Federal Government, and also to draw up a blueprint which will be for the future of the Province. ! suggest, Sir, that it 99 3

~ove~brr 25, 1975 Tape No, 41 NM - 1 ~R. MOO~ be debated at that time and is not the que~tion of urgency at this particular moment. MR. NEARY: I am dissatisfied with the answer, Hr. Speaker, and 1 wi~h to dehnte the matter on Thun;dav afternoon, five-thirty, during the late show. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Burgeo~Bay d'Espoir. MP. SU!}IONS: Thank you, ~fr. Speaker. 1 would like to direct a question to the Minister for Industrial Development. I wonder would he indicate to the Houe when a start might be made on the announced fish plant for Burgeo? MR. OTTF:NHEIMER: The hon.

Minister of Industrial and Rural Development. MR. LUNDRIGAN: The people of Burgeo will be informed about government's attitude on that particular project within, I would say, a week. MR. SitfMONS: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker 1 do I interpret from the minister's answer that there has been some change of plan by the government since it signed the agreement in September to proceed? MR. LUNDRTGAN: It is certainly not my aim to determine how the bon. member interprets the answer I gave, that is his prerogative. HR. SIMMONS! Supplementary. Mr.

Speaker: would the minister indicate \>hf'ther there has heen n change in plans concerning the Burgeo f!sh plant since the government signed an agreement to go ahead with the plant last September':' 1'-'R.

SPEAKER~ flrder, please: lHthin the oral question period it is not permlssible to continue asking in different forms the same question. or to seek the same in>'ormation which a previous question would also tend to elicit and th~r~ is a certain discretion, obviously, which the Chair has in ruling OL supplementary questions and I would suggest that the hon. member hns come close, is getting close to eliminating his right with respect to continuing supplementary questions. MR. stMPONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. With respect ! submit that I 100

Nove~ber 25, 1975 Tape No. 41 NM- 2 was aekin~ a different question. I would like to know whether government has changed its plan since the agreeMent to proceed with the Burgeo Fish Plant was signed in September. It just requires a simple yes or no answer, Mr. Speaker, and I do not think that is too much to ask the minister. MR. SPE~ Order, please!

The hon. gentleman may aak his question but comments after are out of order and just as hon. members are required to comply with the rules so is the Speaker or any hon. member who is presiding required to enforce the rules and the obligation is the same in both instances,that of bon. members to comply with them and that of ~hatever hon. member is in the Chair to enforce them. And the minister. HR. SIMMONS: l'R. SPEAKER: Order, please! First,! do not know if the bon~ minister intended or not to reply. MR. LUNDRIGAN: Mr.

Speaker, the question really is somewhat irrelevant because I did indicate to the bon. member, is he interested,Mr. Speaker,in the fish plant or in the debate. I indicated to the hon. member that the people of Burgeo will be informed about government attitude within the few days, perhaps even within a week. I am sure as a reasonable member representing these people that should be quite an adequate answer. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary). MR.

NEARY: I wish to direct a question, Sir, to the Minister of Industrial Development~ would the minister care to give the House an updating on the serious situation involving layoffs at the Harystown Shipyard? MR. LUNDRIGAN: Mr. Speaker, this is an unusual question to be answered during the question period, but if the hon, House will permit I will certainly take the time to give a brief comment~ The question period usually~of course, as I understand it, means that there has to be very brief questions and brief ans~ers but there has been a layoff at the shipyard.

We •elt with the return of the present interim manager that we might as well face the facts that the work is not there 101

Nuvemher 2_~, 1975 Tape No. 41 NY- J at the present moment to be able to accommodate the present work force. The present work force is 450 • Your Honour, Three years a~o when the shipyard was taken over by government the work force was just in excess of 200 people. In the last three years that work force has more than doubled and we have been able to attract quite a bit of work.

Previous to the government getting involved actively there I believe there were only two ships actually built but the shipyard and in the three years I am happy to say there have been fourteen ships that have been constructed and that have led to such an increase in the work force. I would not want han. members to feel that because there has been a layoff, that there is a negative attitude on the part of government towards the shipyard. We are very hopeful that the layoff is a temporary one.

We did not want to ~ontinue to have people involved there whi~h were in some ways draining the resour~es of the shipyard, creatin~ somewhat of a morale problem,as one can understand and consequently the layoffs. The ~ontract has been finalized for the construction of a new tug. Discussions presently are being finalized for other work and we hope that that will be on stream early in the new year.

There is no negative attitude and I would like to say to bon. gentlemen through you, Sir, that some of the public comment and controveray which P:ort of indicates there is something radically wrong at the shipyard certainly is not helping us in our efforts,with new managment coming on stream in a month from now1to attract new business and to present for the intern~tional community that we do have a good shipyard, we are very proud of i.t. We do have a good work force and we feel that the long term prospects are very much in order. 102

November 25, 1975. Tape 42 RH - l MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! T wish to make a polnt of order. Just as it is necessary for hon. memhers to keep their answers brief, exactly to the point without

preambles, statements of opinions, arguments and giving only the information necelHHtry to make a ~uestion clear, I think han. members answering questionfl also are required to lteep the answers as brief as possihle in giving the information rei'Juired. The han, member for LnPoile. HTI. NEARY: Is it okay if I ask a supplementary question to the minister? I would like to ask the minister if the Board of Directors of the shipyards meet regularly to give the management of the ship­ vnrds proper direction? MR. LUNDRIGAN: Mr. Speaker. first of all could I just say I agree with Your Honour's ruling a minute ago.

Certainly if han. members though are going to ask questions about the status of the shipyard you cannot answer that even in the House if one might be - MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! The hon. gentleman is directed to answer the question. Order! MR. LUNDRIGA.~: Yes, Sir. Yes~ Sir, I was going to say to the hon. gentleman who raised an important question that it has always been the practice of the Board of Di.rectors to work in close co-operation with the management at the shipyards~ HR. NEARY: Does the board meet regularly? MR • LUNDR 1 GAN : Also - yes there have been regular meetings.

Your Ht'lnour. and also 1 would like to say that our plans right now vary in mind a changing nature of the type of work that will be required to be done at the shipyards, to branch out and to attract new people to the Board of Directors to enable us to give more r,uiianee and direction to the manag_ement at the shipyard. HR. SPEAKER: The hon, mPmher from Fogo. CAPT. EARL WINSOR: !--lr. Speaker, may I direct a question to the hon, Minister of Fisheries? In light of a statement which the minister made that he vould be requesting an amount of 11 quarter of 103

:lnvembt~r 25. 1975. Tape 42 Rll - 2 a million dollars to he spent in improving fishing facilities at Musgrave Harhour 1 can he inform the House now whether this money hns been approved and if ~o. for what intent? !-fR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Fisheries. JJON. W. CARTER: Mr.

Speaker, the matter to which the member from Fogo referred.of course~has been under very active consideration by the department, and I am afraid that the bon. member and the fishermen concerned will have to wait a little while lonp,er to ascertain if it is going to be possible to provide that money to provide that very hndly needed facility. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Conception Bay South. MR. J. NOI.AN: Hr.

Speaker, if I may address a question to the bon. the Premier in the absence of the Minister of Municipal Affairs, and thnt is!could the Premier provide us with information detailing whenever possible the number of water and sewer projects that have been cancelled since September 16? HR. SPEAKER: PREMIFR MOORES: is yes. Order, please! Hr. Speaker, you said to be brief. The answer NR. NEARY: I have a question, Sir. for the hon. Minister of Provincial Affairs and Environment. Would the minister inform the House if the matter of the municipal dump at Upper Island Cove has yet been settled and if not,why not? HR.

SPEAKER: The han. minister. HON. A. MURPHY(Minister of Provincial Affairs and Environment): Mr. Speaker, if I may. with reference to the dump at Upper Island Cove it is settled as far as I am concerned because it is up to the council. I am not selecting sites for dumps. It is up to the council and the people concerned to settle it for themselves. The duties of my officials at Environment are to inspect sites and to approve or disapprove. It is a question of internal ar~ument or dissension betYe.en groups in tipper Island Cove and as soon as they are settled 104

11Jovernher 25, lq75. RH - 3 and get an alternate site we will inspect it and say if that is all rir,ht too. Rut I just want to impress on the House that my department or officials are not the ones to find sites for dumps. He are the ones to inspect the sites selected. MR. NEARY: A question to the minister. Sir: Would the minister inform the House if it is correct that a permit was issued for a site and then at a later date cancelled? MR. MURPHY: Yes. HR. NEARY: n1en, Hr. Speaker, n supplementary. Would the minister indicate to the House why the permit was cancelled? MR. MURPHY: MR.

SPEAKER: Because of depositions from other parties. The hon. member from Baie Verte-White Bay. MR. T. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, I wish to direct a question to the Minister of Health. Can the minister tell the House whether or not the extention to the Central Newfoundland Hospital at Grand Falls will go ahead this year and next year as originally proposed? HR. SPEAKER: The hon. minister. HOM. H. COLLINS: (Minister of Health): Hr.

Speaker, the hon. member I am sure heard the Budget Speech yesterday and I can only reinforce what has been said there and what has been said previously and that is that there are no cancellations of hospital projects. 105

Novpmh~r 25. 1975, Tare 43, Pap,e 1 -- apb fn many cases the 1.-mrk will continue at a r<>duced pnce. But in any event, within the next few days ve w:ill be ln touch with the Grand F.>Us people and he able to be more definitive in terms of what will be done. >tR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, another question to the Minister of Health, Sir. Will the minister tell the House what the status is now of the proposed Port aux Basques hospital? NR. COLLINS: This falls in the same category, Hr. Speaker. 2fR. NEARY: A supplementary question,then.

Has the minister been in touch with the hoard in Port aux Basques, to advise them that their hoRpital has been cancelled, or has the board been in touch with the minister'~ MR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker. we had <1 meeting with the Port aux Basques board about ten days ago .nnd the hon. member was present. We have not been in contact with them since yesterday. I am not sure if he remembers he was present or not, but he was. But certainly the people of Port aux BascmeR will he given the same advice at about the same time as the other boards. MR. NEARY: Hr. Speaker, correction.

I was not present at any meeting with the hospital board, Sir, it was the town council. Sir, I have a question for the Minister of Transportation and Communications. Would the m.inister .inform the House if he or the government have mad~ any representation to Newfoundland Steamship Company Limited and Clarke Steamship Company Limited objecting to proposed increases ln freight rates to Newfoundland and Labrador? NR. SPEAKF.R: 't'hc hon. the Minister of Transportation and Communications. RON. J.C.MORr.AN: t1r. Speaker, the answer to that question is yes.

My officials and myself met with Clarke Steamships' officials and discussed the proposed increase, and also I have wired the federal Anti-inflation Commis5i.on, the Chairman Mr. Pepin, asking him to indicate to us in my d<'!l<"lrtmcnt ,and this government,whether or not the Anti-inflation Commission doP.6 have any control or not over any proposed increases in freight rates. To date I have not received a reply. MH. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Burgeo-LaPoile. 106

November 25, 1975, Tnpe 43. Page 2 -- apb HR. NEARY: Mr. Spenker. woold the minister be prepared to table the correspondence in connection with Newfoundland Steamships and did the minister contact both Newfoundland Steamship and Clarke Steamship 1 and tf so, would the minister undertake to table the correspondence? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Communications, MR. MORGAN: Hr. Speaker, it is rather difficult to table the conversations I had in a meeting with the officials of the one steamship company.

There is only one steamship company, I understand. that is proposing any increase in their freight rates. There is only one steamship company that has filed an official application for an increase in freight rates and that is Clarke Steamships. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, where is my old buddy the Minister of Tourism? I cannot find him around - oh~ he is in front of me here. Sir, in view of the government's austerity, belt tightening, retrenchment, cutback programme, would the minister now tell us what will happen to the Norma and Gladys?

Will she be brought back to her home port • will she continue her voyage, is she capable of continuing the voyage, just what is the position now concerning the Norma and Gladys? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism. J...fR, HICKEY: Mr. Speaker. everyone aboard has their belt tightened. There ifl no suggestion that the vessel will be brought back, she will proceed on her voyage. MR. SPE..4JZER: !1R.

SIMMONS: The hon. the member for Burgeo-Bay D 1 Espoir. '-'r, Speaker, a question for the Minister of Forestry and Agriculture. t-Jould the minister indicate what steps his department is taking in relatio to the dispute in the Conne River area over timber­ land. In particular I would be interested in knowing what action is being taken to provide the operators of the Conne River mill with suitable or .'ldequnte timber limits, ~·iR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Forestry and Agriculture. HR. ROUSSEAU: Mr.

Speaker, I held a meetin~ with the - I guess the whole group involved in the Conne River sawmill enterprise on Sunday and I put to them the following situation; that within the near term - and there is some dispute over the exact length - but anywhere from two, three up to 107

~ovembcr 25, 1975. Tape 43, Page 3 -- apb five years - they say two - by two years that there is a sufficient supplv of timer down there to keep the sawmill operating. They have a permit from the department to cut up to 1 million board feet, so there Is no problem in the immediate term. also indicated to them that by the end of March - pqssibly qulte earlier - we will be in a position to sit down with not only the Conne River sawmill enterprises but indeed with all sawmill enterprises down in that area.

And as well there may be others as inventories are completed across the Province, where we are prepared to sit down and talk with them about the supply of timber. At that time in Conne River, at subsequent t.imes anywhere else in the Province, there may be a reallocatton of resources where one company may give up and area and tak~ another area which is closer to the mill and so on. This can be done in a sitdown with each of the operators in the area sometime by the end of March.

The situation as it stands now is they want a halt on the wood cutting in the area until such time as that discussion takes place and a mutual agreement is arrived at in respect to the continued long-term supply of timber for the Conne River sa'WJ!lHl enterprises. In the meantime, as I understand it, they do have the road blocks down and the Rttll.ands Forest Products is taking out the wood that is cut. At this point !n tlme they are not cutting any other wood. I was talking to "fr. Ralph of the Rallands Forest Products yesterday nnd I will be meeting with him on Thursday to discuss the situation with him.

So righr ntn-'o after the meeting on Sunday, and this position which we have taken, lt is holding now until I have the opportunity to talk with Mr. Ralph on ThursdaY, 108

November 25, 1975 Tape 44 PK - 1 MR ~5?~~ The hon. Member for Baie Verte-Whitc Bay. NR._~.T· RIDEOUT£ Mr. Speaker, in the absence of the Minister of Mines and Energy I wish to direct a question to the hon. the Premier. What action has been taken to date by government to investigate industrial health hazards at Advocate Mines in Baie Verte? MR. MOORES: Mr. Speaker, the fact is that a great deal of action has been taken not just at Baie Verte but with regards to industrial accidents and various health hazards in the mining industry within the Province.

This has been the subject of some study, The study will be made public in the very near future as will government action to correct it. MR.~~~: The hon. member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. I wonder if the Minister of Forestry and Agriculture, Sir, could inform the House just what is the position now of the land freeze, the agricultural land freeze in the greater St. John's area1 Has the freeze been lifted? Partially lifted? Is it in the process of being lifted? Just what is the state now? Is the government buying the land? WOat is happening concerning this land? MR. SPEAKER: The bon.

Minister of Forestry and Agriculture. MR. J. G. ROUSSEAU: That question I will have to take as notice. T have a full briefing coming up on the land freeze. There has been some adjustments made within the past year, some minor adjustments. As the position is at the moment with the land freeze ant government will have to make a decision in respect to the long term supply.

We will be meeting witio the farmers on Monday, before that time I anticipate having the meetings of the - I will take the question as notice and when I have my briefing I will give it in that part of the answer-question relating to it, the answer period. ~R.~.AKER: The han. Member for Fogo. CAPT. E. WINSOR: Sir, another question to the hon. Minister of Fisheries. Can the Minister of Fisheries inform the House who has the responsibility now for community stages? You know. it is sort of half way with federal and half way with provincial.

Is there any one particular government who has the whole responsibility for community stages? 109

~1nvember 2 5 1975 Tape 44 PK - 2 The hon. Minister of Fisheries. "lr. Speaker. the community stages, the future operation of them is now the subject of an agreement that is being worked out with the federal authorities. It has been agreed by Ottaw.n that we vould convey to the Province the facilities. The Province has agreed to accept responsibility pf'nding their upr,rading, the cost of which will be borne, I believe, to seventy­ five per cent by the federal authorities. MR. §:_PEAKER: The hon. member for LaPoile. MR.~EARY: Mr.

Speaker, I wonder if the Minister of Transportation and Communications can inform the House, Sir. how near we are to reducing the speed limit on the Trans-Canada Highway in order to save lives nnd to prevent accidents? MR---~~Xm~~ The hon. Minister of Transportation and Communications. MR~_,}-!.-..~GAN! Mr. Speaker. my department is giving now serious consideration to the posoibility of reducing our speed limit. The plea is now being made by the federal Ministers of Mines and Energy and also of Transportation, and at this time it is under study. I am hopin~ to receive a report from thP.

Highway Safety Advisory Board in the next two months. and shortly after that I will make a decision ns to whether or not we will reduce the speed limit or not on our hip,ln.rHys. ~--~!:f!..LtWOOD: To save gas or to save life? A!!_l~ •. -~fBER: Both. ~!.o.l:!.Q_~~N: In our ease. Sir, in Newfoundland there are two major points, one is the safetv aspect and the other is a reduction in consumption of gasoline. But the federal government seems to be advocating the reduction of speed limits mainly for one reason, just the reduction and consumption of gasoline and not the safety aspect.

Looking at our Trans-Canada and the standard of our Trans-Canada safety is a big reason for us to reduce our speed limit as well. MR. ~S?~EAKER: The hon. member for LaPolle. MR_·- !!E.;_RY: Mr. Speaker. in view of the fact that there have been announcements of retrenchments and cut-baCks and so forth, would the Minister of Transportation and Communications inform the House what 110

November 25 1975 Tape 44 PK - 3 priority, what the Trans-Labrador Highway now has on the list of government priorities? Is it still number one priority? Number tuo? How far up the list is the Trans-Labrador Highway? Has it been shelved? Are negotiations still going on with the Province of Quebec and the Government of Canada? Could the minister give the House an updating on the Trans-Labrador Highway? 111

November 25, 1975 T~pe No. 45 IB-1 HP. ~JOHGAN: Mr. ~penker, all major roads, trunk roads in this Province are priorities. But I can assure all hon. ~entlemen that Labrador roads and the Trans-Labrador Hi~hway is a priority. And in fnct just thls weekend coming up ! will be p-oing to Labrador myself and a meeting of the Task Force to look at the possibility of keepin~ nne road we have now open in Labrador~ which is also a pr!orfty. All roads are priorities. This government will be pursuing the matter of the Trans-Labrador Highway continuously in the future. ~. NF..ARY: Pr.

Speaker, a question for the Hinister of Health, Hr. Wou]d the minister inform the House if the statements made recently by n member of the medical school, a doctor at the medicnl school, concernin~ the dispensing of drugs in this Province, if the matter hns been dropped? Is it being investigated? Has the government had anv offictnl cof'!plaints? What is the status of these - lfP. SPEAKER: Order, please! f."R. NEARY: - these serious charges that were made? MR. SPEAKER: Order!

Order~ A question, an oral question relating to matters which passed outside the walls of the House is in r~~y nnclerstancling not a permissible quest ion and the question '-!Ould be out of orcler. ~·p. NEA.RY: Hell, !-'r. Speaker, would the Minister of Health inform the House if hi.s department i.s conrlucting an investigation into charges m<tde recently by ·; member of the staff of the medical school at HPmorial IJniverNitv? HP. COLLINS: lt Js being investigated, 1-lr. Speaker. !<'F. NEARY: Would the minister ind.icate what form the inveatip.:at:lon is taking? :MP. COU.INS: An investigative form. MR.

NEARY: By members of his staff or - ORDERS OF THE DAY: MP. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Hi ndsor .. Buchans (~r. Flight) • }fR, C, fLiGHT:.~ t'nder the provisions of Stnndin~ nrder 23, I ask leave 112

November 25, 1975 Tape No. 45 IB-2 to trove the ad"1ournment of the House to debate a definite matter of urgent public importnncet namely the increasinr seriousness of the situation which has arisen as a result of the 1nhour~management disputes at the Alcan mines at St. Lawrence, the Price (Nfld) Pulp and Paper ~ill at Grand Palls, the Labrador LinerboarV ~ill at Stephenville and the Bowaters f.till at Corner Brook.

The situation in the paper industry today is tmdermining the economy of the whole Central Newfoundland, Western Newfoundland and Central Labrador areas and threatening our people with grave economic hardships. And the failure of the government to provide leadership in - HP. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! When the hon. gentleman is asking leave for such a motion, he may state, you know, what the actual matter is for Which he is ~sking the adjournment and it is to discuss a specific matter of publi~ urgency and it is the statement of the particular matter.

Now any additional material would be, or certainly the additional material which I hf'ard, would tend to presume that leave had been ~ranted and the debate was toing on. and right now the hon. gentleman in at the stage of asking leave and to the best of my knowledge has n1 ready Rtnted this specific matter of allep;ed urgency for which he vlshes the House to adjourn, the motion for adjournment. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Leader of the Opposition. HON. E. ROBERTS: Wi.th respect to Your Honour's ruling, we are all grnteful for it • but I think Your Honour is being a little trigger happy.

AJ] that my colleague is doing is tryinR to state the very essence of the matter which in our view is the failure of the government to act. I think he should he allowed - he is certainly not nllowerl to debate it and T do not think he proposes to do so,but I believe he should he nllowed to finish the few remrrrks he harl. 1P. SPEAKEP: In my opinion the hon. gentleman hnd qu:i.te clearly ,,nd precisely and accurately stated the matter. He had stated the matter.

And the additional material was in fact matter which would be very relevant in debate but certainly I understood that the matter, at least to my understanding, had been presented. MR. ROBEPTS: The failure of the government was very much a part of thata 113

Novf~mber 25, 1975 Tape no. MJ HR. SPEAKER: The bon. Houae Leader. HON. R. WELLS: Mr. Speaker, we would oppose the motion­ JiR. SPEAKER: Is this a point of order? MR. WEI.LS: A point of order, Mr. Speaker, yes. Page l - mv We would oppose the motion moved by the hon. gentleman, All of these particular matters that he refers to are in their case urgent, yes. but the Department of Labour, which is a department of government, has the appropriate services for dealing with these and each of them are being dealt with in the proper way insofar as it is necessary or desirable for government to be involved.

So that he is speaking of many matters not one matter of public urgency, Your Honour, and so that we would take the position that it is not an appropriate matter on which this House should be adjourned and specifically debated. MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker. to that point of order, Sir. There is no point of order. The rule, Standing Order 23~requires that Your Honour consider the statement made by the bon, gentleman from Windsor - Buchans (Mr. Flight) and if Your Honour thinks it in order and of urgent public importance you then read it out and Your Honour then asks the House whether any member objects.

At that point I would suggest that the hon. gentleman from Kilbride (Mr. Wells) is certainly at liberty to say whether he objects or no, and we certainly take it from what he did say that he objects. But I submit there is no point of order. The Speaker may or may not find the matter to be of urgent public importance. We believe it is but it is the Speaker to decide. MR. F. ROllE: MR. SPEAKER: And we have not heard it all yet. Order, nlease! The rules with respect to the asking of leave for the motion to adjourn are set forward in our Standing Orders and certain additional explanations indeed in Beauchesne.

In Beauchesne,

chapter 100, subsection 2 but it is at the very bottom of page 89: There must be a prima facie case of urgency, 11 The Speaker's obligation in thia area is to rule on whether or not the matter is in order. And on page 90, subsection 3:' 1"Urgency" within this rule does not apply to the matter itself, but it means urgency of debate 1 AN HON. MEMBER: Hear, hear! 114

November 25. 1975 Tape no. 46 Page 2 - mw ?IR. SPEAKER: (There is a distinction betveen the urgency of the matter and the urgency of debate.) - 1 ~hen the ordinary opportunities provided by the rules of the House do not permit the subject to be brought on early enough and public interest demands that discussion take place immediately. 11 MR. ROBERTS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: In my opinion the matter is obviously urgent, obviously of public importance. I do not concur that there is the urgency of debate at this moment, and I would also refer to a speaking of Mr.

Speaker Lamoureux given in the House of Commons, available in Hansard of July 9, 1969, and he stated: The motion is acceptable only if it concerns a matter that has unexpectedly become urgent and not if it concerns a situation that has prevailed for some time. If I understood correctly the bon. member's comments, the question is no doubt both important and urgent, but it has prevailed for some time. To that extent I do not believe that it would be in order to adjourn the business of the House to allow the bon. member to make known his views on the matter.

With those two authorities, that of Beauchesne's commentary on the urgency of the debate as distinguished from the urgency of the matter; and the ruling frequently referred to by Speaker Lamoureux as well as others and that is the matter must be something which unexpectedly became urgent but not something which has continued to be a situation for quite some time. I, therefore, rule it out of order. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear • hear! MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, could that maybe be tabled so that we can all take it home and read it? MR. SPEAKER: It will be in Hansard, no doubt. MR. ROBERTS: Mr.

Speaker, before we proceed to the Orders of the Day, there were two matters, I believe, which were mentioned briefly on opening day and which, of course. could not be dealt with then nor could they be dealt with yesterday. One of them, I believe, the hon, Premier ~ished to deal with a resolutuion congratulating Archbishop Seaborn on his elevation to that position. But I wonder if it would be proper for me to move that the usual and appropriate message of condolences be sent to the family of the late Dr. James A. McGrath, a man who was no stranger 115

November 25, 1975 Tape no, 46 Page 3 to many of the roembern of this House. He served in the House with a number of us, a man who vas four times elected to represent the former District of St. Mary's~ a district with which Your Honour is not totally unacquainted~and a man who served with great distinction for ten or eleven years as a member of the Cabinet, most of them as Minister of Health. Dr.

McGrath's death, of course~ occurred during the Summer. in the month of July in fact, but this is the first opportunity we have had. would move, if it is in order, Sir, that the usual acssage be sent or if the Premier prefer perhaps the motion should stand in his name in which case I would he honoured to second it. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Premier. 116

November 25, 1975 Tape No. 47 Nli - 1 HR. MOORES: Hr. Speaker, certainly I would be only too glad to propose the motion and I would also think it would be very wrong at this time that unless the Leader of the Liberal Reform Party was here as well, or the bon. member for Twillingate, who I nm sure has more personal involvement with the hon. gentleman and has had than any other person in this hon.

Houae,but as a Premier of a province talking about a man who is such a distinquished Newfoundlander, a man whose family I have known for many years, a man who in many cases, or most cases I think was beyond partisan politics, a person who was respected by not just his constituency but by people all around this province, I have great pleasure, Sir, in moving the official resolution to honour his memory in the form that this House normally does. HR. SPEAKER: The bon • ..aber for Twillingate. MR. SMALLWOOD: Mr. Speaker.

I join my voice with that of the Leader of the Opposition and the hon. the Premier in my expression of sorrow over the death of a very dear friend and a very great man, a great Newfoundlander, a great scholar, one of the most scholary men I have ever known, a man of great wit, of great humour, a trencherman if ever there was one, a doctor, a magistrate, a medical specialist, one of the two greatest medical administrators~so it was said, in the whole of Canada when he and Dr. Leonard Miller formed a term in the Department of Health. Dr. James McGrath was all man. He was all gentleman.

He sat just behind me just about approximately where the hon. member for Harbour Grace sits now~I think it was~and again and again he in this Houae,quite oblivious to what was going on about him and about all of us, sat there translating into English some work of French that he wanted to translate, did a number of them for me. His loss to Newfoundland is one that is not going to be filled. He was a great man and a great Newfoundlander, a great father, a great husband, a great neighbour and a great minister, a great administrator and a great member of this House and his leas is irreparable. 117

November 25. 19 7.5 Tape No. 47 NM - 2 NR. SPEAKER: It has heen moved, seconded and agreed that an appropriate letter be drafted informing those concerned of the sentiments of the House. ORDERS OF THE DAY: MR. SPEAKER: Order 3. It has been moved and seconded that I do now leave the Chair. Order, please!

When a question is being put if bon. gentlemen rise then the Chair has no way of knowing if they are rising on a point of order or to speak to the motion which is in the process of being put and can make it quite difficult so I would recommend that when a question is being put it 1n fact be put and then let hon. gentlemen who wish to speak would so indicate by arising. The hon. member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary)~ MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. first of all, Sir, I want to offer sincere congratulations to Your Honour for being chosen as Speaker of this bon. House.

I have known Your Honour for some considerable period of time. I think I was already occupying a seat in the House when Your Honour was first elected to the House of Assembly and the-r. I saw Your Honour leave to go to law school and then return to the House of Assembly once again after being elected by the voters I think it wna in the district of St. Mary's. I want to join with the other members of the House tn offering my sincere congratulations to you, Mr. Speaker, and t do 1ol'ish you well, Sir, in your new job, also, P.r. Speaker, want to pay a tribute to the former Speaker of this bon. House, the hon.

James Russell. Now~ Sir, on Opening Day I thlnk it was the member for Twillingate expressed an 118

November 25. 1975 Tape 48 PK - 1 opinion that Your Honour would probably be the best Speaker that we have ever had in this hon~ House. Well~ Sir. with all due respect to Your Honour who presently occupies the Chair. in my opinion. Sir, Your Honour will have to go some to beat the gentleman who occupied the Chair for the last three-and-a-half years. He was a thorough gentleman~ Sir, impartial and did, in my opinion, an outstanding job, an absolutely magnificent job in chairing the debates that took place in this House, Sir, under most difficult circumstances. I also.

Sir. want to extent my congratulations to the - Sir, if the han. Leader of the Opposition worried about my speaking it is about time they learned that there is more than one party in this hon. House. MR. DOODY: How many are there? MR. ~ Well there is the old guard Liberal Party, there is the Liberal Reform Party and there is the Independent Liberal Party. Hear, hear! So, Sir. it is about time their Whips, their House leaders or their Whips just did not ignore the other members on this side of the House. They do not own the House, Sir. There are other members and other parties in this hon. House. So if the bon.

Leader of the Opposition would just not be so rude and take his seat and stop interrupting me when I am trying to address his Honour, the Speaker, I would appreciate it very much, Sir. Sir, I want to also congratulate the Deputy Speaker of the House who has been chosen, the hon. member for St. John's South (Dr. John Collins). I think this is a very good choice indeed, Sir, and I do wish the Deputy Speaker well in his new duties.

He is a newcomer to the House of Assembly. but I am sure, Sir, that if I know the hon. gentleman at all that he will do his homework and try to do a good job when occupying the Chair of this House or when occupying the Chair in the centre of the House as Chairman of Committies. And also, Sir. I want to extend my best wishes and congratulations to the member for BonaVista North (George Cross) who has been chosen the Deputy Chairman, the Chairman of Committee of the Whole. Thia 119

November 25, 1975 Tape 48 PK - 2 gentleman ts also a newcomer to the House of Assembly, Sir. ! must adtni!:. Mr. Speaker, that 1 am not at all familiar vith the gentleman, hut I have heard some good things about him. I have. as a matter of fact, talked to some people who were former students of the hon. member, and I believe that he will make a good Chairman of Committees. And, Mr. Speaker, I would be remiss in my duties if I did not extend my sincere congratulations to all those members who were re­ elected for the second and third time and to all those members who were elected for the first time.

This is the first time, Mr. Speaker, that we have had fifty-one members in this bon. House. And that brings me, Sir, to my first point in the budget debate. During the time, Sir, thllt we debated the Royal Commission report on the Redistr:Hrution of Provincial Boundaries in this Province, I was one of the members, Sir, who stood in his place in this hon. House and strongly objected to increasing the number of members to the House of Assembly.

And my main objection, Sir, was on the grounds that this Province could not afford fifty-one members. that instead of increasing the number of members in the House, Sir, instead of increasing the number of members we should have been reducing the number of members from say forty-two downward to about thirty-five. But, Mr. Speaker, the Royal Commission hsd no choice. they were bound by legislation, by

an Act that we passed in this hon. House to bring in a recommendation that the number of districts in Newfoundland be increased to fifty-one. They did not have any elbow room at all, Sir. It was laid down 120

Novemh~r 25, 1975. Tape 49 RH - 1 by thin honourable House and they had no cholce but to recommend fifty-one districts because it was spelled out in legislation. They did the best they could, Sir, to set out the boundaries. But the administration at that time saw fit to ~errymander the districts. You know, Hr. Speaker, it was humorous on election night to hear the Minister of Finance, the Member for Harbour Main­ Bell Island coming out and saying he would have loved to have a fight with the former Member for Bell Island. Well, Sir, I would have loved to have a fight with him too* But, Mr.

Speaker, does the hon. gentleman think that I am a fool or that I am stupid? When I go into a fight, Sir, I like to go into a fair fight, not a fight where the dice are loaded or the cards are stacked against you. Anytime, Sir, anytime the hon. member wants to have a fair fight all he has to do is let me know. Come down to LaPoile and I guarantee you he will get a fair fight~or anywhere in Newfoundland for that matter, Sir. Mr. Speaker, they gerrymandered the districts and it backfired, Sir. It backfired on them.

The government now have less members, a lesser number of seats, less seats in the Rouse than it had before the last provincial election. And they also, Sir, have a much lesser percentage of the popular vote. So the whole thing backfired on them, Sir. Thcv thought they were being smart. They were going to gerrymander themselves back into the House of Assembly with a large majority. Instead, Sir, their majority has been cut and the percentage of the popular vote han been cut drastically • substantially and they are now sitting in this hon.

House with a smaller percentage of the popular vote than all of the mPmhers on this side of the House put together. Another significant point, Sir, about the outcome of that election is the makeup of the new House of Assembly. Hr. Speaker, as far as I can ascertain, out of thirty seats on the government side of the House, and~of course, this is a matter of opinion of what your 121

Novcrnher 2'J, lllF;< Tnpe 49 RH - 2 df'fi.nition of urban or ;,cmi-urbnn, hut out of thirty ,scats, $lr, twt'ntv-twn on tlw government side of the House are reprl'St.>nted by nrhnn {lr sPmi-urt>:m d1stricts. In other word!", the members, twentv­ tvo of the mf'mhers on tht> rnvE!rnment benches at the present time - "IPS, I would consider the member for flarbour }lain-Bell Tsland to ht> rf'prcsenting a semi-ur!:lan district, semi-urban - so, Sir, twenty-two out of the thirty seats the government have at the present time in the House the members represent urban or semi-urban districts, a matter, Mr.

Speaker, that is of ~rave concern to a lot of the members of this hon. House and somethi.nR that has to he watched, Sir, very, very carefully. !i!.:_..Y..qQ!!!: Why? MR. NEARY: Why? 1 will tell the minister why and the House why. So that all the programmes that will be put forward, not only in this session of the House but in sessions of the House to come, that all the programmes will not be urban community oriented. Well, Sir, first of all we have to see the pro~rammes and then we will he able to tell the minister. I am sure that St.

John's Centre has done fairly well with the representation that it has down through the years or I presume the hon. member would not he returned to this House of Assembly five times in a row, five times. The minister and I have the same amount of seniority in this honourable House. We both came in in 1962. ~!R. MURPHY: Hhat else do we have in common? MR. NEARY: That is about all we have in common, Sir. That is about all we have in common. Rut it is something, Hr. Speaker, that has to he watched very, very carefully and 1 will be standing here in my place in this hon. House as a member 122

November 25 • 1975 Tape No. 50 IB-1 who represents a rural district. Three of the communities in my cl'istri.ct are isolated, You have to get there by boat~ Petites, Grand Bruit nnd LaPoile nre all isolnted communities. This time ln the yenr~ Sir, the only service they have is by the conventional type of CN coastal boat. Hy hon. former colleague, the member for Fogo (Capt. F. Winsor) operates a ferry in the area but I am afraid this time in the year. Six 1 his little boat that he brought down from Louisitma is unable to cope with the Newfoundland weather conditions.

And in November she had to be taken out of service and tied up for the Hinter. t will have more to say about that later on, Sir, about that bugaboo, Mr. Speaker, so here we are, a kind of a mixed up crowd now in the House of Assembly. But one thing, Sir, that we all have in common is that we were all Bent to this House by secret ballot. He ~-ere nll sent here by the majority of the voters in our various rlistricts. That. Sir, we have in common.

We were all sent here, Sir, by the people of this Province in these most difficult times to try to do the best we can to improve the standard of living of the people of this Province. Prior to this House opening, Sir, I am afraid that some ~mbers at least thought they were sent to this House just to have a bRll, to play games, one-upmanship, to make legalistic mountains out of molehills, to clown around, to attack other members' characters, to attnck the Speaker And to waste the time of the House. We sa;w what happened, Sir, in the last three and a half years in thi.s hon, House, !)ir.

You cannot really poi.nt your finger at any one significant or outatnndjn~ accomplishment of this administration 4 or you cannot really point your ftnger at anything worthWhile that was done in the hon. House. The whole thing~ Sir, was a sham. Some of the ~mbers who sat in that hon. House paid the price. Some, their constituents were prepared to forgive them and send them back ;tgain hopin~ that they would reform, change their ways, take off their coats, roll up their sleeves and get down to brasR tacks and try and do something for a change for the ordinary 123

November 25, 1975 Tnpc Uo, 50 !B-2 p~np1c of thJs Province. I knn"·· Sfr, T knm..- T h:we often fn1lt'n 1nto thf> trap rrvsf>l f of gettinr dcmn nnrl roJlinr, into the mutl with some of the hon. memhers. r:orl on1v knows I wns provoketl often i'Oough. Well, !';!r, T stand before vou in this hon. House today not purified or not dennBerl- no, that is my friend from Twilling.nte (1-!r. Smallwood). I stand here, Sir, openly and say to Your Honour that I will not tolerate or put un with any c]owntng arouncl by any members or by any personal attnckl'l on members' characters in this bon. session of the House. AN HON.

MfMBEF : Hear! Hear! tfP. NEARY: We have been sent here, Slr, by the people of this Province ro do a 1ob. It is ~olng to be a difficult task, Sir, ns we heard yesterday from the Pinister of Finance when he outlined the various measures for dealing with inflation in his 124

November 25. 1975 Tape No, 51 NM- 1 HR. NEARY: mini hudget, the first time that we have had a mini budget in this province. It is going to be rough. It is going to be tough, Sir. Newfoundlanders, I believe, have never backed away from a fight and I do not think they will now. But certainly the leadership has to be provided if we are going to work our way out of this rnost difficult situation that we are in at the present time. Mr. Speaker, the way that I would sum up the average Newfoundlander's opinion of yesterday's budget is that it is much to-do about nothing.

After a couple of weeks, Sir. of predictions by the bon. the Premier, by the hon. the Premier taking to the radio and the television and the newspapers, telling us that there would be harsh belt tightening measures in this session of the House of Assembly aimed at giving the Government of Canada full co-operation in its battle against inflation~ after about two or three veeks of this, Sir, why yesterday members were almost frightened to death, almost scared to come into the House. They were expecting to come in.

Sir, and the people would come down in droves and smash the windows out of the place,that the measures would be so severe. The Minister of Finance would bring in such harsh measures as we were led to believe by the hon. the Premier. Harsh, severe measures he told us 4 And what did we find ourselves with yesterday, Mr. Speaker? Just a mild slap on the wrist, a little love tap to the consumers who we are led to believe, whose wild purchasing could be one of the main causes of inflation~ Mr.

Speaker, the hon. the Minister of Finance yesterday in his mini budget, his Fall budget, talked out of both corners of his mouth, Sir, at the same time and I could not come to the conclusion whether he was trying to be a good guy or a bad guy. First he told us about some of the bad news and then he used to slip in the odd little goodie and then the minister told us that the exemption of clothing from the ten per cent sales tax was going to be a great boom to the poor people, to the ordinary people of this province. It is going to be a great boom,how are you, Sir!

It is going to impose a severe hardship on the ordinary people of this province. Oh sure, Sir, the rich, the wealthy, the high mucky-mucks 125

November 25~ 1975 Tape No. 51 NM- 2 can now ~o out and buy their \lives a fur coat and they do not have to pay the ten per cent. That is clothing. So they are getting a bi.t of a break too. When the House is opening, an.Vbl'dy who can afford ir, • the rich want to buy a cocktail dr~ss so their wives can attend the cocktail parties or an evening gown or an expensive nightgown. They do not have to pay the ten per cent sales tax. So who is getting the break? AN HON. MEMBER: Five per cent on nightgowns. MR. NEARY: Five per cent on nightgowns? Well, Sir, it is going up and up. not the nightgown but the - So, Mr.

Speaker, who is getting the break? What about all the ordinary people who have to buy knives and forks and pans and paper to paper their houses and putty and broken glasses in their windows and nails and cooking utensils and refrigerators and stoves and washing machines. The minister made no reference to all these ite~~ at all. AN liON. MEMJER: They will be exempt. NR. NEARY: They will not be exempt! 126

November 25, 197), Tape 52, Page 1 -- apb They will be exempt from the ten per cent on clothing. And I will tell you. Hr. Speaker, if the situation is anything like when I was growing un, and I believe it is today in a lot of parts of Newfoundland, most of the kids are wearing hand-me-downs because they cannot afford to go out and buy clothes, and so the savings there, Sir, will be very insignificant indeed. It will benefit the rich more than it will the poor, Sir.

What the minister should have done if he had to have any sense, he should have wiped out the ten per cent on clothing and then put a luxury tax on the rich and the wealthy and the high mucky-mucks and make them pay. But no he did not do thatt Sir, he gave them a big break. Mr.

Speaker, I think the biggest error in judgement, Sir, in the Budget Speech was the fact that there was not a single indication that the government itself, on its record over the past three years- which has been one of extravagance and waste, probably the most wasteful and the most extravagant in our historr,-not one single indication, Sir, that the government itself is going to engage in any of the belt tightening that we heard so much about for the last few months. Are the government going to get rid of any of these platoons of high paid executive assistants that they have?

And they are increasing now, Sir, we are told. In the last couple of weeks since the election - and there is a surplus of dc£0nted candidates around - that a few of them have found jobs as executive assistants. What happened to the old ones? The government bas not changed, the administration has not changed, are they now put on the unemployment rolls or have they found other jobs? No, Sir, not a single indication that the government itself was going to retrench and cut back and cut out this ex ravaganee and profligate spending of the last three and-a-half years.

And, Sir. what about my favourite pet peeve, the government aircraft? Is that going to he put in mothballs along with the other money-wasting aircraft that is being misused and abused? And, Sirt did we hear anything, did we hear a peek out of the hon. the Minister of Finance about the empire building that is going on in the public service and by the university bureaucrats who have become a major monkey on the backs of the taxpayers of this Province? Planning and Priorities Committees, Cabinet Secretariat - three quarters of a million, $1 million* $1.5 million- and all these 127

NovPmher 25, 1975, Tape 52, P<lge 2 -- apb fpll.ows that nrc flvinr, nround the Province nnd flyinr, around Canada .1nd flyinr, around th~ world nt public expensp, Whf'n thcv shouhl he in their classrooms te;tchi.ng ov~r at the university. When> do they get the time, Sir, that is what I would like to know to p.o off on these commissions and enquiries and seminars and visiting lecturers? Where do they get the time? They are getting paid full-time to lecture over here at the university and if you get aboard an aircraft, Sir, you are bound to bump into a whole flock of them.

That is if you can get into the first-class. They go first-class. The poor old neasants like ourselves have to go second-class. This is a major problem, Sir. And we did not hear a word, Sir, about any reduction in future hnndouts hy the Rural Development Authority for such dubious projects as funeral homes and beauty parlours, and not even notice of intent to cut hack, Hr.

Speaker, as I inrlicated a few moments ago, on the inter­ provincial travel and the international travel at the expense of the provincial treasury, of the huge numbers of - cabinet ministers themselves are the biggest culprits in this, followed very 128

November 25, 1975. Tape 53 RH - 1 closely. 1 would say, by the Memorial University staff and officials of the government, Crown corporations, advisory boards, committees of all kinds, not a peep from the minister of whether or not they were going to cut back in this area as we watch all these people go on their little juants about the globe on all these unnecessary conferences at public expense. You know, Mr.

Speaker, I would say that on any given day, Sir 9 on any given day,and Your Honour can pick whatever day he wants,that you will find anywhere from 500 to 1,000 well-heeled, well-to-do residents of this Province, Sir, either in the air, en route to far flung corners of the world, far destinations or lounging in a luxurious hotel room somewhere in North America ,or in Europe or wining and dining, Sir, in some of the posh eateries of the world and all at the expense, Sir, of the provincial taxpayer who himself is huddled in his little modest home in Newfoundland putting on two or three sweaters so that he will not freeze to death, turning down his thermostat if he has one because he cannot afford to buy the heating fuel that he needs to keep his poor, old modest home heated.

Did the minister throw out the challenge to these people, give them something they could get ahold of, a hand on, say, well, the minister is sincere in what he says. He is going to clean out this crowd of monkeys on the taxpayers back who are travelling all over the world. }!r. Speaker, I was told a story recently by somebody who knows. Not only do they r,o off to their posh hotel rooms and their posh eating places but you knoL they arrange it so they can attend the hockey game in Montreal and some~imes they exchange tickets. MR. DOODY: That is not true. HR. NEARY: Ah~ It is true, Sir.

I got it right from the horse's mouth. And I am not talking about ministers. I am talking about some of that crowd over there on the campus of Memorial University ~ho will not disclose their budget to the people of this Province. 129

Tape 53 R!l - 2 fhl-v dlsclnse it rmrtiRlly. 1in, Sir, they will not disclost• it. T heg to difff>r Pith ny hon. and formpr boss, the hon. member for Twillingate. We, Sir. whpn 1 was n mem1wr of Cabinet~and I am not divulr,ing Cabinet ;:;ecrets, we tried tr> put the boots to them hut they put the hoots to us instead. YPs. I heg vour pardon, Sir, All they will g:i ve vnu, Hll tfli~Y w!11 v,ive vou, Hr. Speaker- ~~Sl'F:.A_KFR: (!Jr. fnll inn): Order: Order! I remind the bon. member he is addressing the Chair. HR.

NEARY: Thank you, Your Honour. l remind Your Honour, Sir, th:1t all the univf'rsi.ty does is give uR n little sheet of paper with headings on it -salaries, $5 million; maintenance of buildings, :'i 10 million nnd so forth and so on. You get this list. We do not even know if the places are insured over there or not. AN liON. MEMBER: They arc. HR. NEARY: They are. They are not. Well, Sir~ that is something worth looking into. But, Hr. Speaker, I will talk about the university di!>closinr, its budget when t get intn the Throne Speech. I am only just r,ettinp; warmPd up now, Sir. Mr.

Speaker, that budget yesterday, that mini budget that was presented by the bon. Minister of Finance and the President of Treasury noarcl, Sir, is Just a hit of gim-crackery- HR. DOODY: ··---·- Can you spell it? r.Jm-crackeryt g-1-m-c-r-a-c-k-e-r-v, gim-crackery. Is it hyphenated? MR. NEARY: Hyphenated. Just a bit of gim-crackery with a buildup carefully managed in advance by the hon. the Premier and the members of h1s Cabinet so that it would nppeat' that things are not as bad as they had been predicted. Mr.

Speaker~ the only congratulations that l can offer to the bon. the Hinister of Finance are due him, Sir, not for the wisdom, not for the common sense, not for the usefulness of his budget 130

November 25, 1975. Tape 53 RH - 3 in providing this Province with a genuine inflation fighting tool but Mr. Speaker, for the wonderful job that the minister did of stage mnnnging its presentation in the House of Assembly yesterday and 131

~lnvci'lbcr 2'5, 1975 Tape ~1o. 54 T R-l his cxceJ lence of puJ lin)! the wool over the ~yes of our provincinl rnxpnyers. ft H<'lS n1mm;t <Hl pfff'c-tive, Mr.

Spenkt'r, as the pre-election hurlrwt of Jnst Sprinp, when so many goodies were promised to r;o many without ;my rc;tl rPp,nr~ for the hf'lenRuereP governl"lents ability or intention fnr thnt mntter to produce them. ~fr. ;:':pe;Jker, if this House foolishly accepts the present huclRet without a thoroughgoing reconstructton to fnshion itl Mr. ~penker, into a real inflAtion fighti.ng tool, then I preclict, Sir, AS do some nt my colleagues that I have talked to io this hon.

House, that next Parch and ne71:t ApriJ nnd next !'ay the government w:lll he forced to recognize the extent to which it itself is contributing tn Inflation and hrinp. inn hudp.et that will re:~lly come to grfp_q with the problems of inflation especially with the problems that are crcnterl by the povernwent itself. Therefore, ''r.

Speaker, T would maintnin, Sir, thnt it Js the duty of every memher of thls House, .lt is the duty of this present House to refer the entire l"latter of the budget back to the ~'inister tJf Finance, not waste any more time and give hitr. instructions to bring mf'a!'mres intn this House that will really haven chnnce, Sir, of shmdng thilt the government of which he i::; a member really intends w support the fe(lerct1 p,overnment. ~·r.

Speaker, the hon. the Pretl'ier on nutnProus occ:wions at public functions haF said, we nre goinr, to support the CnvcrnMent of rannda,:md then when the Tories held their convention nt the floltrlay Tnn he sa1d, well, we do not Jjke thci.r me;Jsures. !11(> d> not 1 ike chat they an~ doing hut we are going to mtpport It anyway. Thnt, in mv opinion, Sir, is hypocriti.cal and all it tloe~ is confuse thf' reopte. You either support it or you do not. You nre either going to H;:ht it or you are not going to fight it. Other provincial 4ovcrnments, Sir, have taken the bull by the horns.

Out in British C:oJumbia the NOP Government brought in a nin~tv 0ay wap.e ,,nd price freeze. T vould have liked to see our government rlo somethinf!: simil.nr in this Prov.inc:e, Sir. Hr. Speaker, our do11ar is erotl-lnp: dav by day and somehow evervhorly seems to throw up their nrms in rlefeat ;mil sRy, there is nothinr ~'P can tlo about Jt. 132

~Iovewber 25, 1975 Tape No. 54 t.•e depenn on the btu:k, S:ir, whether we like it or not. Yy liod, T tell you thi~, 1ust imAgine a hockey team going out on the ice that did not have the ~etermination to win. Well, they might as IB-2 well stay ln the penalty hox. Well, Sir, that is like the government. They do not seetT! to have that ~etermination to be able to bent this Inflation. Newfoundlanders are out there and Canadians ~aiting, eating their hearts out for something to happen, for somebody to show them the way, to show them the light.

Well certainly, Sir, they could not take any inspiration from yesterday's budget. And, ~r. Speaker, over and above limitinp, measures, negative measures, let us in this House also engage on a positive programme to try, Sir, and link up the minds of our people to the real relationship between the standard of living and productivity. You kno-w, Hr. Speaker, somehow or other I would say the majority of our people, not only in Newfoundland, in Canada, in North America, do not relnte in any way, shape or form what they get in their pay envelopes to what they produce and nothing is being done ahout :It.

Sir, I have for three yearA put a resolution on the Order Paper su~geRtinp: to this government that they set up a productivity council comprisinp.. of labour management and other

section or factions in society to try and come to grips with work stopages, legal and illegal. Set up a productivity council. no it by penceful means. You will never accomplish it the way that Pr. Mercer is going about it, by taking on everyboDy or takinr, on the labour movement. 133

Tape no. 55 Page 1 - mw Mr. Sp~ak~~r~ thh> ls ,, matter that l will have ro<Jt:t.' to say about later on. But let the budget~ Sir, also contain and bring forth proposals, ~r. Speaker. for educating management and labour in the importance of productivity as the only real long-term way~ Sir, to fight inflation. ~!r. Speaker, it must he as plain as the nose on your face, Sir! And people cannot H?e it, members of the House cannot see it! And t must say~ t think in the tast gession 1 almost had the Premier convinced that my idea of a productivity council was a good thing.

We spoke privately about it, and he said, it is good, I like the concept. But, Sir, why he did not go ahead and set up this productivity council I will never know. No where ~lse, Sir, in Canada is it so necessary as in Newfoundland, We are almost as had now here as Italy was a year ago and the whole place was in turmoil. The economy was wrecked through ~trikes, whether they were legal~ illegal, work stoppages of one kind and another, lockouts. Canada~ Sir, hns the next worst reputation to Italy, and Newfoundland is the worst in Canada, My God! and we sit back and do nothing about it.

I do not mean that we should go out and clobber anybody, Sir. We have to show people the light. And what we have to do, Hr. Speaker, is start right back in our educational system, start right at kindergarten and work right up through, Sir, nnd tell our students, our young people, our graduates of tomorrow, what productivity is all about, what trade unions are all about, what management is all about, what capitalism is nll about. As of right this moment, Sir, they do not know. You know, Mr.

Speaker, one of the things that will have the biggest bearing on people's lives when they finish vocational schools and the university ant! the College of Trades and the College of Fisheries and high schools, ts the union, nnd they will learn nothing about it. I wag president of my own local union for fourteen years, and I am pro-union, 1 ~m n union man, and I am a Liberal, too.

And, Sir, I vent right from kindergarten right on up through high school and did not learn one thing about the trade union movement, It is something that would have a bigger bearing on people's lives than anything else in society, and yet we turn a blind eye. W~eo twas an executive office of the Federation of Labour, 134

November 25, 1975 Tape no. 55 Page 2 - mw we tried to get it into the curriculum in the schools. and we were laughed at, They still do not have it there. I think at the College of Trades or at the university now they are making minor stabs at industrial relations but not far enough, Sir, in my opinion, We are going to have to change people's attitudes, and the only way you can do that is go right back when they start going to school all the way up through, and teach people, Sir, that they can only own, they only deserve what they earn, they can only enjoy what they earn.

I remember, I think, the bon, member for Twillingate (Mr. Smallwood). I believe, in his peril and glory, outlined the problem in our Canadian North American society. I think the bon. former Premier, Mr~ Speaker, came to the concluaion,when he did put together that little booklet, that we were living too high off the hog.

And it is only now that the chickens are coming home to roost, So, Sir, if we are going to win this battle, if we are going to convince the people who sent us to this House of Assembly, Sir, that we are sincere and genuine in our thinking, and the government first of all has to show the leadership by eliminating all these cocktail parties. Looky Mr. Speaker, I was going to refer to the public accounts. You know, I do not make this stuff up. In the Throne Speech I will be dealing with it.

In the Auditor General's report we have reference to air services, to booze parties, the liquor being put aboard the government aircraft (look!) without any vouchers, liquor being spread around, nobody signing for it. 1 could read it. It is there in the Auditor General's report, Sir. And then we have all this, office entertainment it is called. Look , Sir, a whole page of it,. One hundred and fifty-eight dollars 135

November 25, 1975 Tape No. 56 NM- 1 to somebody to p.;;ss out to go see Stomping Tom Connors. the Merry Widow, all kinds of wast~ ;md ~xtravagence. $4,000, $4,626 -miscellaneous. They must have been ashamed to show that altogether. You know any member can take this, this public accounts or the Auditor General's Report, go through it and the Auditor General has shmm u!'l where we can save mJllion~ of dollars every year and we have ignored it. And we ourr.elves, Sir, if we were men enough,could show the people of this province that we mean business.

The government is going to ground its jet and have an auction down here at Torbay and get rid of it. Only then, Mr. Speaker, in my opinion, will the people of this province, SJr. take the measures that we heard about yesterday seriously. No wonder. Mr. Speaker- i.s it any wonder that -we have so many strikes in Newfoundland at the present time. The poor old worker is frustrated, confused, bewildered, does not believe that we have problems of the !l'.agnitude that we have. All he knows is that he is faced with personal problems he is unable to cope.

The $600 yesterday that was announced in the housing programme by the minister - who will benefit by that? Is it the ordinary people of this province, the low income people that the minister was so concerned about? No, Sir, because thtv cannot afford to buy homes. It will be the fellow up in the $10,000, 512,000, $15,000, $20,000 a year bracket who will benefit by that, not the person on social assistance. unemployment insurance~ low income as the ministPr was trying to lead us to believe yesterday. It will go to the fell..,ws th;1: r·1m afford it • the high mucky-mucks ap;ain that I refer to.

I am not talking about the millionaires, and I could have n few words about them too, Sir, but the $600, Sir, the minister tells us is going to be of such tremendous benefit to the ordinary people of this province will only go ton certain group, to a certain category of people. So, Mr. Speaker. let me see what else is here in the, oh yes, yt's, Sir, the minister just brushed over the m<.~tor vehicles and driver licences increases. He did not tell us, Sir, he said, oh just n mntter of $2 a year. nothing, pin money.

That amount, Sir. over a three ve~r period is sixty-six and two thirds per cent increase and that will 136

November 25, 1975 Tape No. 56 NM - 2 be taken out of the hides of the ordinary people and the increase, Sir, for motor vehicle registration going up from $22 to $29 a year, that amounts to thirty-t~o per cent of an increase that will be waeked right out of the backs of the ordinary people of this province, AN HON. MEMBER: Plus the scrap cars. MR. NEARY: Well the scrap cars I will deal with in the Throne Speech, that is a different matter. So, Mr. Speaker, we have a lot to think about in this bon. House.

We have to examine our conscience and if, and I cannot help but repeating this, Sir, because people are just not taking the matter seriously. They are not convinced that the Government of Canada can enforce its price controls. I am not convinced. Labour is not convinced. Probably the minister is not convinced. But does that mean, Sir, that we have to give up on inflation, that there is nothing we can do about it. We have to do, what is it the minister is saying we have to do? HR. DOODY: We are discussing whether you are on the Budget Speech - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh. oh! Well, Mr.

Spea~r, I am on the Budget Speech and,Sir, I could go through the Fall Budget 1975 book presented yesterday in the House of Assembly. Is that Bell Island on the cover, by the way? MR. DOODY: Yes. The district that you ran away from. MR. NEARY: Is that so? Is that so? Well it does not look like Bell Island. You could go through this, Mr. Speaker, with a fine tooth comb and you could find, Sir, all kinds of examples of extravagence and waste and Sir, I just opened up a page there and this put it in my aind about the linerboard mill. I argued, Sir, 137

November 25, 1975 Tape 57 PK - 1 Str, in the laRt ses!,;ion of this hon. House that one of the greatest mistakes that this administration made- apart from forcing out one of the best companies that we ever had,Chruchill Falls Corporation wa~ tnYing over the Linerboard Hill and letting John C. Doyle off the hook. The Minister of Finance at the time YaS so full of hatred nnd bi~otry and despJsed Mr. Doyle so much that he felt the thing to do was to take it over, and I fought against it. I think I was the only one in this hon. House. I broke party rank to fight against it. And I foup,ht.

And people were confused because they felt Hr. Doyle had been called a crook and a gangster and a scoundrel and a rogue so often that the thing to do was to get rid of him. That 1~ what they were conned into believing. But, Sir, it was a grave mistake to let that company.whoever owned it, I do not care who owned it~ whether the Minister of Finance owned it, or whether his predecessor owned it, or whoever awned it, Sir, it was a sorry day for this Province. It was a mistake to take over that mill and let the owners off the hook. They are laughing all of the way to the bank. And what is happening today?

We are pouring into the Linerboard Mill, Sir. about $28 million or $30 million. This year it will probably be $35 million or $40 million coming right out of the public treasury going into that mill, and it would have operated, it would have gotten there, it would have operated. They would have found a way.

But no,we had to bring in a salesman from Stateside and pay him $75,000 a year plus fringe benefits to operate that mill for us, and let the owners get away scott free, And not only that, they paid him $4 million, $5 million or $6 million for their milL And you can go down, Sir, to the University, an old pet peeve of mine - this year, I think, they are spending $32 million,! believe it is, A blank cheque, Sir, we are passing over to them, $32 million - and they do not have to tell us what they are spending it on.

I heard a story the other day, Sir, I vas - last year I was telling about George Fifth down at the Marine Science Labortory where they were teaching him how to ring a bell so he could feed himself. Well I was talking to one of the doctors recently on staff at the University who was telling me, Mr. Speaker, it would be 138

November 25, 1975 Tape 57 PK - 2 worth your while to go down to the Marine Science Complex sometime when they are performing surgery down there, and here they are, Sir, all doctors from all over the world, their expenses paid to Newfoundland, dressed up in their gowns with their caps and masks ready to perform surgery on some poor little old herring that they just hauled out of the water.

But if some poor little child wants a pair of crutches or a set of glasses or a set of dentures,or some old person wants a wheelchair, you cannot get it~ And go down there and there they are locked up, cloaked in their little room - my hon. friend knows how they dress, I cannot describe them - their stethoscope around their necks, ready with their scalpel to make an incision into the brain of a herring. And here we are, Sir, talking about retrenchment and cut-baCks and belt tightening. What is going to be done about that? And what is going to be done.

Sir, about all these outsiders that are hauled into this Province with their families, and I am not bigotted or prejudiced against Come-From-Aways getting jobs here. My han. friend from - the Minister of Transportation and Communications brought it up recently and I said to him downstairs one day he should take a look at his ovn administration. Why only recently, Sir, the assistant deputy miaister of Health is a Come-From-Away. Nobody in Newfoundland can do that job? The minister's own deputy minister is a Come-From-Away. Down in Finance she is full of Come-From-Aways, and it is increasing all of the time.

And down in the Minister of Justice's Department the assistant is a Come-From-Away or the deputy is a Come­ From-Away. And you can go through every government department. And 1 am not talking about appointmentR, Sir, that have been made for some considerable time, I am talking about recent appointments in the Fisheries Department. Who was appointed there recently? The gentleman from Ottawa, a Come-From-Away. What does the Minister of Transportation and Communications have to say about that? And they may be all good men, Sir. I am not condemning them.

And I aa not against Come-From-Aways God only knows there are enough Newfoundlanders in Ontario and Boston and all the other provinces and states. 139

!)ovemher 2S, 197S Tape nn. JH Page 1 - nrw I nrn not ar,ainst it, Slr. But certainly we should - I agree with one thing the minister said,that we should give preference to Newfoundlanders whenever possible. And t am sure that we could have gotten an assistant deputy minister of Health without going outside the Province. But, Mr. Speaker, t am wandering a little bit. I started off by zeroing in on the university, $32 million a year. 1 can get the odd person ln this House to agree with me, and remember the day, Sir, when it was unpatriotic in this Province to criticize Memorial University. How dare you!

They would immediately go on the defensive and say,' Oh! you are attacking the academic trainlng at the university: No such thing, Sir. They can go ahead nnd teach their bridge over there if they want to and their folklore and the Extension Service can go out and form the fourth Newfoundland Party if they want to. They can stir up trouble in every community in Newfoundland if they want to. They can do all sorts of these things. I am not interfering with that. I am saying that, Sir, point blank.

And God only knows the majority of people in this Province agree with me. although I may not get agreement in this House because~ Mr~ Speaker- I re1Dember when I was in the old guard Liberal caucus, any time I zeroed in on the university - Jt.R. DOODY: How many meetings did you have there? MR. NEARY:- that night for sure, Sir, that night there vere phone calls back and forth between the president and one of my colleagues in the caucus saying, "w•hat fs wrong with that Neary?

What is he criticizing us for?'' Now, Sir, I am out from under the thumb of that sort of thing, and 1 can let her go, and they can make all the calls they want. And my former colleague would say, Wt•H, oh yes, Hr. Neary. He is only speaking for himself. He is not speaking for the caucus. I speak for education in the Liberal caucus.' 1 I have no job to protect, Sir. And I guarantee vou this, 1 guarantee you, Hr. Speaker, that I speak for a lot of people in this Province Vhen 1 suggested to this House, Sir, that it is about time that the university was forced to disclose its budget to the people of this Province.

The government should refuse to let them have one more red cent. That is not an attack on academic freedom. That is an attack 140

November 25, 1975 Tape no. 58 Page 2 on haw they are spending our money~ Sir, I am not saying -Mr. Speaker, I would be the last person in this world to say -that all the staff, all the administrators and all the people over at Memorial University are careless with our money. I am not saying that, Sir, no more than I am saying that all the lawyers are crooks in this Province or that all the consulting engineers are rogues. I am not saying that, Sir. I remember a story came to me prior to the recent election.

Somebody said, Oh, look! one of your fr!endd:(And I said, huh, I better watch this,' one of my friendSr~aid, oh, Neary has attacked the lawyers, he has attacked the doctors, he has attacked the consulting engineers, he has attacked the automobile dealers, and now he is attacking Memorial University. Just look," he said/ at all these people and all their friends and all their relatives, just look at how many people he is turning against him.) 1 Well, Sir, if you put them altogether they would not fill up a pork barrel.

They atnaunt to about zero-point--one per cent of the people of this Province and that is why I have no hesitation in zeroing in on the car salesmen or the lawyers or the staff at Memorial University or the professional engineers or the real estate agents or the second mortgage holders. Put them altogether and what have you got, Sir? Have you got one per cent of the population of this Province?

I like to be the watchdog, Sir, for ninety-nine point nine per cent of the people of this Province, and that is why I am standing in this seat that I am in today, because the people wanted me back in this House to carry on the fight, the great fight, the great strugRle that I have had down through the years, my fourteen years in this House)on behalf of the ordinary people of this Province. Ninety-nine point nine per cent of the people are poor people like myself. struggling for survival. Now I have lost my $3,500 whip's fee that I used to get. 141

'-W. noonv: ."lli. NEARY: 'h: bon. friend c;m have it. J1p is 1Jf'.}cornP to it. I --~--- <nn think r>f nn person better !Wlted to get it ·· L1r.RP family, struggling, nm not accusinp. my hon. friend nf taking the bite out of rnv childrens' mfluths, But, Sir- "1R. NEARY: 1 wUl tell you t was hir,hly amus<'d. Before this House opened they were talking nbout increases. It Get the House open so we can ~et naid; Cet the House oren so we can get our bir, increases!H This wns the talk all over Newfoundland.

Members have quit and come back from Ottawa, p,iven up their free passes on Air Canada, given up their luxurtous offices up in Wellington Street or wherever it is in Ottawa, and their telenhones and thei.r secretaries and coming down here to slug it out in a ponr old province. Gave up $35,000, I think, a year. !\N !ION. MEMBER:_ $38,000, ~38,0nn a year. And then you have others who quit their 1ohs, $22,000 a ve<tr, S20,000 <1 year, $25,000 a year.

Then you have the lnwvers who art' coming up once in a while, droppinp; in to the House, rmnchinr. in an hour or so, and all Rayinp;; "Oh! we have to get a big incrPase in pay. To hell!" they were ,aying, "with the federal government's vn,t;f' anrl nrice p:uidelines.' 1 Well, Sir, I give them a fair warning now, <1.0d I :1m s,1.tisfied, !-fr. Sneaker, I am quite satisfied to arprove, to agree w!th nn increase in this han.

House within the guidelines, and r am satisfied, Sir, to see members of the House paid their exrenses the Bame ns civil servmlls - present. your bill for vour hotel and ynur travelllng, your rent~ a-car or whatever expenses you hnve, pay for that ovpr and above what memh!:'rs are getting now. But. Sir, r give fair '--'<trnfnp, thnt I will not stand :in this hon. House and agree with any increase outsitl~ of the guidelines that have heen ];tid down by the Covernment of ranada. T feel sorrv for these fPllows who quite their ~18,000 and $20,000 nnd SZ2,000 :1 vcar jobs hut they knew t.~hat they were r.etting into.

Maybe some o:>f them thoug,ht thf'y wnuld be in the cabinet bv now, Sir. "faybe tla:v h:1d delusions of grandeur. Haybe they put bllml faith in the wrong peop1e nnd they arc sitting here now for their Httle old $14 7 500 the 142

November 25, 1975. Tape 59, Page 2 -- apb same as I have had to struggle along with except that I have lost my Whip's pay for the last - not only that, Sir, it was $3~500, I think, \<hen I first came into this hon. House.. And I have managed to get there and they are going to have to manage to get there because if it means my vote I can tell the House right now that I will vote for increases in member's pay within the guidelines, eight and two. MR. DOODY: Paid for productivity? MR. NEARY: No, Sir. I will tell you, if we were getting paid for what we produce in this hon.

House, I am afraid there would be a lot of members down to the welfare officer before a week is out. Mr. Speaker, I am not against members getting paid for what they do. You know, I hear this argument so often; well, look! a janitor, a plumber, a miner dawn in Labrador City is earning more than a member of the House of Assembly. Well, Sir~ maybe members are getting paid enough for what they are doing.

I know in the last sitting - I am not going to refer to this sitting of the house because the first thing the Minister of Finance -will say~ "name them" - members dropped into this House once in a while. thev would come in and pick up their nay cheque and they would go off down­ town and sit in their law offices and they would spend all day long in court and they spend about four or five, give them at the outside ten hours for the whole sitting of the House, and then they expect people to sympathize with them and say: "Well, why does not the poor old member get paid the same as a janitor or a watchman or a miner or a truck driver or an electrician?" Why, Sir?

Because they do not deserve it, that is why~ Now there arr members who deserve to get paid well because they work hard for their districts, for their members and for their constituents. I think, Sir, the incomf' of members should be related to the total income of a member and what he does and how much he produces in this hon. House. Now, Sir, getting back to Memorial University for a moment or two, 143

Nov~mher 25. 1G75. RJI - l I vonltl hore, Mr. Spf'<lkPr, thnt the Minister of F1nnnce, members of this hnn. Hnus!" VPtllfl hnvP sufficient courage, Sir, to say to the Univ£>rsity. "Yon are not getting another pennny, :mother cent until von nrrr>f' tn d!srtosp Vclllr hudgPt_.'' And T remember whnt started me off on th:tt Irick nnw was the fact that I will he accused now of attackinr, another p.roup. But, Sir, I -want to make it abundantly clenr that I am not attacking everybody at Memorial University, and when T talk ahout lawvers t am not attacking all lawyers.

Thet'e are some honest, decent people in all the professions, Sir. There are some decent politicians, There are nome scoundrels and rogues too as we <tnw np in Quf"hec rf!cently and in Ottawa. I do not thlnk we have them in Newfoundlond. Fortunately, I think most of the members, at least, Sir, maybe I am naive, but I would hope, Sir, that most of the members of this House are sincere and want to do a ,1oh for their constituents, for the pr!ople who sent them in here. Hr.

Speaker, we dld not hP.ar one reference from the M"inister of 'F'iMneP, Sir, whf'n he had the opportunity, when he was bringing in this 'F'"<ll hudgrt to tell u~ about the nlle~ed, the so-called scandal in the Fl~ho:>rv Dcpnrtment involving,so we are, told $3 million or $4 million. Y.-,n !·now, l>fr.

Speaker, when T heard that. when I heard that,honeat to Cod f ;,rdd to myself. the> scalding and the cruc:ifyi.ng that T took in the 11nn. lln'l~e from the former Minister of Fisheries. now the Minister ("If "linr>s .1nd Fnerrv~telling me nnd my family and the people of this Province that n min:inter is responsible for what ROes on in his depart- ment whether he knew it or not. Well. Sir, I say now that that Minister of FisheriP" vho is nm-1 Hinister of "1ines and Energy is also rt?sponnihl£> for whnt wep: --m Jn that department and the minister before htm.

"~R. nnnnv: He ts not in tht• House. ~·•onld shove his words, T woulrl throw them right back at him. MP. f}OODY: Hn-Lt until ~f! comes into the !louse. ----- 144

November 25, 1975. Tape 60 RH - 2 HR. NF..ARY: T am going to have a go at him~ Do not worry about that. I am ~oing to have a go at him. I thoup,ht it was only in the Welfare Department, Social Services that this sort of thing could happen. 1'-!R. DOODY: Maybe you can get Fisheries next time. HR. NEARY: Maybe. I will certainly have to stand in line. There are a lot of people on the other side more qualified than I. I will just wait until he gets back. But, Sir, the minister should have dealt with that matter in the budRet. It does involve, Sir, some $3 million or $4 million of the taxpayers money.

I would like to know why the minister shyed away from it. It is not before the courts. The Minister of Justice need not get his feathers ruffled over there. So we are perfectlv free to talk about it in this hon. House. That 1s 'What we are here for. MR. HICKMAN: More hogwash! HR. NEARY: No, Sir, I am talking about the scandal over in the Department of Fisheries. And we have had one, two, two ministers on that side and both of these ministers, Sir, should answer for this alleged scandal. They should be compelled to answer.

They should he Ruspended from their duties for being negligent and careless in the administration of public funds. k11en I was told, Sir, in this hon. House T remember Mr. Wick Collins,who loves me, had a little editorial in The Evening Telegram. I should even be nut out of the shadow Cahinet,he said, the shadow Cabinet, That and fifty cents will ~et you across on the boat to Bell Island. You know, he was so sanctimonious!I should not even be allowed in the shadow Cabinet. Well, what about the Minister of Fisheries, two of them sitting on that bon. side of the House, what about them, Sir?

Are they going to resign? Are they going to be tossed out? Are they just going to sit there? And nobody says a word! Mr. Wick Collins is silent now. Where is his pen now ? And all the other news media that are so quick to go after your jugular let the ministers get away scott free. They are 145

~{ovemher 2~, 1Cl75. Tape fiO Rll - 3 responsible, S,ir. for everything that goes on in that department and they should hP the ones to answer and pay the price and pay the p~nalty for any wronRdoing - not that they were involved themselves; Sir. That is not the point. They have to answer to this House and to the people of this Province for their wrongdoing, not their wrongdoing, for any wrongdoing that may have taken place during the 146

November 25, 1975 Tape 61 PK- 1 time that thry were minister of that department. No? Sir. the present Minister of Health and the present Minister of Mines and Energy should, Sir, for their own sake, for the sake of justice and decency in this Province, truth and justice, come out and tell the people. tell the House what happened in the Department of Fisheries. The Minister of Mines and Energy may not be here, but the Minister of Health is here. I do not know but part of it may have taken place when my former colleague the minister - no 1 the minister shakes his head and says, no.

So the onus of responsibility then is on the shoulders, rests on the shoulders in the government to come out in the interest of truth and justice and tell us what is going on and what happened in the Department of Fisheries. I do not think for one moment, Sir. and I saw this twisted the other night, twisted en a television programme, twisted around by a cute and sly little interviewer, getting a poor little old lonely fisherman to say that a lot of the fishermen in this Province were liars. I do not think that for one moment, Sir. You know, Mr.

Speaker, if there are those amongst ua who were tempted then, Sir, I would say that it is only because they have been shown a bad example by the people of this Province whom they look up to, No~ I am not talking about legislators. I am talking about other things that have been disclosed recently and confirmed hy Mr.

Mercer when he spoke dawn at Rotary the other day? and confirmed by a lawyer down in the Minister of Justice's Department, a Crown prosecutor who came out and said that frau~ulent practices are widespread in the business world and in the transfer of properties in this Province - A statement made by a Crown attorney, a Crown prosecutor! I do not know if he was silenced or reprimanded by the Minister of Justice. I hope he was not, Sir.

This is refreshing and this is the kind of thing that I like to see, but it merely confirms what some of us have suspected all along, and it demoralizes the whole population, the ordinary people, Sir. and it undermines the administration of justice in this Province. And that brings me to my next' point that I would like to see: A thorough on-going investigation into second mortgage companies, real estate transactions, legal fees involved in certain transfers of property in this Province. 147

November 25. 1975 Tape 61 PK - 2 Now, Sir. a few moments ago 1 made reference to the heading in the e~timates, Rural Development Authority. In our rush, Sir, to deal with the Rural Development Authority in the estimates we somehow or other just - and have, and I suppose I have been guilty of this although last year I asked for a list of all the loans that were made by the Newfoundland and Lahrador Development Corporation - That was supplied. MR~~N~ No, it was not supplied, Sir. It was not supplied.

The list that I asked the minister for was a list of all those who had defaulted in their payments, a list of all of the loans that were uncollectable, and the minister refused to give it to me - the Newfoundland and Labrador Development Corporation - and I think the excuse that the minister gave at the time was the fact that it would be not in the best interest of the public or these firms or these individuals to make it known that their debts were outstanding. Now I am refreshing the minister's memory and he remembers it. It is coming back to him. And, Sir, I am not too bad. I am like the elephant in this hon.

House, Sir. 'the only place in the world that I feel at home is right here in this hon. House. I am like my 148

November 25. 1975 Tnpe 62 IB-1 my former hoss. the hon. member for TwHlinr;ate (~r, Smallwood). I love it. I rouJd stay here nip:ht nnd dav and bring my bed in. But~ Sir. there is very little known about the activities of the Newfoundland and Labrador Development Corpnratjon. 1''1!. DOODY: You got It nn the Order Paper now. HR. NFARY: Yes, I haven question on the Order Paper. That does not stop me from deal fng with it Wen I am TUnning through the Fall budget, 1975. Pr. Speaker~ I do not know, maybe I am over suspicious, Sjr.

Rut 1 have a feeling that all is not well with the Newfotmdland neveJopment Lonn Corporation. Well, when I sny nll is not well, first of all let me say to clarify that, to say that they are not doing the job, in my opinion. which they were set up to do. And. in the second place, S!~, I would like to find out from the minister 1 if he elects to speak later in this debate, how many loans have been made by the Newfoundland Development Loan Corporation. What the loans have been made for. whom they have been made to and how ~y of these loans are uneollectJble,Jf any. I hear rumors that some of them are uncollectible.

Last year "'e had an example of where the director of Air Services nnd the preAldent of the Newfoundland Development Loan Corporation went out to the !'leal fishery to get their Winter supply of flippers to put in their deep-freezes, And when I asked for a justification in this han.

House, the Hin:ister of Forestry and Agriculture,Wo was then Hinister of TranRportation and Communications,kindly gave me the full information and in his reply to my questioning and cross- examining told me that the president of the corporation went out becnuse they had loaned the owners of one of the shlps a substantial amount of money from the Newfoundland Development Loan Corporation to put a cannery on a sealing ship to can what would remain on the ice of the carcasses of the seals. Is that basically correct~ basically what the bon. minister told me? I swallowed that, Sir.

I took it down hook, line and sinker~ Mp. Sf'IALLWOOD: What was the outcome of the experiment? ~. NEARY: Ah, that is what I am leadinp. up to, Sir. I do not know. U9

November 25. 1975 Tape No. 62 T do not knot..~ i.f the mr>ney has been lost, t-.!hnt the outcome is. I ~·ant the minister to tell me. ~ent you flippers,too. TB-2 ~m. nomw: 1-'P. NFARY: Ah, ~ir, T p;ot: a flipper nlright. Tt "'<HI a frozen one from thP year before. And so we have confirmation that there was a loan made to this part:tcular company. I bel:l.eve it was in the vneinity of $300,000, $400.000 or $500.000, to carry out an experiment for c~nning seal meat.

And now, fireen Peace Foundation are do-wn there telUng us they are going to squirt dye on the senla n<N and try to do away with the seal fishery altogether. That was followed closely by Mr. LeBlanc, the Federal Hfnister of Fisheries who says, well, they may have to take a decision shortly whether or not they are going to allow the seal fishery to continue or whether they have to have a few years of conservation.

Rut the president of the Development Loan r~rporation has great faith in the seal fishery • enough ftti.th to the extent 'Where he loaned the owners of that shtp a substantial amount of the taxpayera money. What I would like to know is if the experiment paid off • if the loan is collectible, if any of it has been paid back and if not, '·'111 It be paid br~ck'~ I vould like tn know about all the other loans 1 "'hnt t''ey have been ftiven out for.

We have been able only, Sir, to ret a minimum of information unrler this headinR• I think that it is time now for the minister to loosen up. open up the booka and let us have a look ,,-d see who is ~etting these loans. Are they going to legitimate case;;? Is the Development t.oan Corporation just becoming another form of we1 Lue, industrial welfare as we saw happen to the RurBl nevelopment Authority when they were providing handouts for defeated P.r. candidates. I know one, Sir.

He is over on Hell Island, God bless hit!'~ He only got about, oh I think so far he only f!:Ot his hooks into the ~ovemment for nbnut $30,000 or $35,000, not all from Rural nevelopment, $15,000 of it, I think, from Rural nevelopment and the rest of it from the Newfoundland Farm Products. How much of this has gone on in the Newfoundland Development 150

November 25, 1975 Tape No 62 IB-3 Corporation. if any? ~'aybe none. Hut we should know. Ah, the lHnister of Tourism is there smilinR. I remember when he was over here he used to put these rhetorical qvestions so well and drive everybody up the wall. And, we used to say, "Oh McCarthyism~ 11 you know I henrd it flung at me from the other side. But, Sir, I am quite sincere. A.~ HnN. HEffilEF : It did not come from this side. tm.. NEARY: Oh, yes. Then when the crowd, when the faces changed on the other sirle, then it would come right back across the 'House again. But, I nm quite si.ncere, Mr. Speaker.

If tJe are going to have belt tightening~retrencht'!ents nnd cutbacks~ then for God's sake, let us level with one another. We are all mature, grown people. Let us find out what ts happening in this Newfoundland De-velopment Loan Corporation. Any sweetheart 151

>lovemhE' r 25. 19 7) Tape nn. hJ Page l - mw den is , buddy-buddv aJZreements, just loans rnn.dp to thnse who are rurned down by thP hanks nnd the finance conrpanie:; and the Industrial !Jpvelopmtmt banks ;md nny other source of loans;' Have they taken ;mv initiative themselves to start up industr.ie~ in Newfoundland? If thev h.we not, in mv opinion, they are like UREE, the~ hnve fniled. So, Sir, when the minister speaks in the debate~ let us have a few word~, open up his heart and open up his books to the people of this Province on the Newfoundland and Labrador Development Corporation, We own it, Sir.

It does not - they are not like - MR. DOODY: We do not own it. AN HON. MEMBER: We do not ovn the corporation. MR. DOODY: The federal boys own it. MR. NEARY: - they are not like God up on their - HR. DOODY: The federal government owns most of it, MR. NEARY: Th~ federal government owns most of it. Well, why is it in the minister's budget? MR. LHNDR lGAN : Because ve got to pay fifty per cent of it. MR. NEARY: And you got to pay fifty per cent, and you have to :dminister it. M!,~~~:i~~P!t.!,GAN: We do· - ~- NEARY: Well that is what I am asking you to do; produce, produce the documentation, produce the evidence.

NPu, Sir, let me see where - oh! air services. Here we are, air servic~>~. I already dealt vith it, Sir, briefly, but I want to come back t~' it again. The Auditor General dealt with it at some length in h1s repot t. Let me see this year what ve are goinp; to spend on air services, $851,500- no, 1 am sorry. Sir, that is nat cnrr~ct. Aircraft operation alone is $1,954,000. _!u~ HON. MEMBER: Thnt includes the water bomber. MR. NF.ARY: Yes, that includes the water bombers. Well, Sir, 1 have no objection to the water bombers, none whatsoever.

They un:• doing a good job, a good concept brought in by the former administration. 152

November 25, 1975 Tape no. 63 Page l But what I am getting at, Sir~ is the misuse and the abuse of the government aircraft for the last three and one-half years. I have asked, Mr~ Speaker, to have the logs back as far as January, 1 think, 1974, tabled in this hon. House. I doubt if I will get it. When the hon. the other ~rowd were over on this side of the House they asked for the logs. They did not get them. MR. DOODY: I shoved you one log. MR. NEARY: I beg your pardon? MR. DOODY: I showed you one log. MR. NEARY: Yes, the minister showed me one log. Mr.

Speaker, is it not time, Sir, that we put aside our petty thinking and our partisan politics. Sir, I wonder if the people of this_ Province are aware that I, as a m.ember, as one of their elected representatives, comes into this bon. House, asked the government for certain public information involving the spending of public money, and I am refused that information? Are the public aware of that, Sir? Does it sink in at all? Year after year after year they refused to give us information on the goveznment operated lodge on the Gander River. AN HON. MEMBER: That is not so. MR. NEARY: That is so.

We asked for the list of guests at the government operated lodge, year after year, Sir. ~hey have refused to give it to us. The use of the government aircraft, who uses it, how many ministers have been aloft in the last year or so, vho were they accompanied by'!' MR. DOODY: For security reasons. MR. NEARY: For security reasons. Well the Auditor General asked a few questions here that may be more in the line of security. In my opinion­ MR. HICKEY: You know one name. SOME HON. MEMBERS: You know "Who one was. You know who it was. MR. NEARY: I was not aboard. AN HON, MEMBER: Someone was at - MR.

NEARY: Yes, Sir, AN HON. MEMBER: 1 was - MR. NEARY: Fortunately, the minister - AN HON. MEMBER: Had a safe trip. 153

Tape no. 6) !'ar,e J - mu HR. NEARY: - had a safe landing and a safe return 9 and I was glad tn hear it. But just listen to this, Mr. Speaker, as an example of the extravagance and waste in the misuse and abuse of the government aircraft. Page 31, the report of the Auditor General; a In my opinion the Department of Transportation and Co'IJIQunications should have taken steps to allocate expenditures for aircraft operations to user departments on the basis of actual usage rather than on the original estimates. My audit 154

November 25, 1975. Tape 64 RH - 1 disclosed that suhrliviBion 1713-03, air services, aircraft operations. included payments totalling $1~650 made to the Newfoundland Liquor Commission for supplies delivered to the government aircraft, additional amounts costing $482 ~ere delivered during 1973-74 but w£>re not paid until 1974-75. nurtnr; the fiscal year 1973-74 it was directed that entertainment expenditures were to be charged to the Department of Finance~ entertainment division.

Also a minute of council issued the 12th of July, 1972 required the minJnter's signature on all payment vouchers for entertainment expenses under $250 and the prior approval of Treasury Board for all charges over $250. Neither the minister•s signature nor Treasury Hoard's approval was obtained to authorize the payments noted above. In my opinion. the above payments were not properly authod.zed and wen'! mnde contrary to the relevant Order in Council. Well. Sir, if thP Auditor General is correct, Six, ministers should he sent hills for these amounts. Why should the taxpayers he called upon? AN noN.

MEMBER: That is a normal situation. MR. NEARY: That is not a normal - that is a normal situation, the minister says. The Auditor General says it is an abnormal situation. ANJJ(lN. ~: That is not ministers. HR. NEARY: That is not ministers. Needless expenditure of public funds. l,isten to this, Mr. Speaker, just listen to this~ Sir. "Air services aircraft operations during the year~ Treasury Board, minute 17074, authorized as a charge against subdivision 1715-03, a paytnP.nt of $4,355 to an airplnne charter company deemed the charge for a charter flight from Toronto to St. John's for six passengers.

From a review of related documents it appears that a sales company anxious to sell its aircraft to the Governtr~nt of Newfoundland undertook to arranr,e a demonstration flip,ht from Toronto to St~ ,John's. The sales company, however, apparently did not have i.ts demonstration aircraft available at the time and as a result it arranged to have the official party 155

November 25~ 1975. Tape 64 RH - 2 flown to St. John's by the charter company.u Just imagine! It was contended by this company that the group had been informed in advance thnt there would be a charge for the flight. A responsible member of the official party has denied this, denied it, Sir. AN HON, MEMBER: Hho paid it? MR. NF.ARY: ~10 paid it? The Province, the taxpayers, the public treasury·paid it because the chartering company was considered to have been in good faith and misunderstandings were indicated. The charge was eventually paid by the government. The flight actually terminated in Moncton, New Brunswick.

They did not even make it to St. John's. As soon as they saw the lights of Moncton they were dazzled and they set her down over there and did not even come on to St. John's, and for that we have to pay $4,355. Mr. Speaker, just imagine how far that amount would go, Sir, to help some poor, little crippled child in this Province or to help some poor person whose house is leaky, whose house is neither windproof nor watertight. And then we talk about retrenchment and cutbacks and belt tightening! You have to practice what you preach.

People are not going to believe it5 I cannot wait for the Auditor General's report this year, Sir. Mr. Speaker, how can the ordinary people of this Province,who make up 99.9 per cent of the population, how can they believe, haw can the administration, how can we as politicians have any credibility at all left in the eyes of the ordinary people when the government is not prepared to make the scarifices?

They are not prepared to give up the aircraft for n couple of years and get aboard of EPA that is struggling~ thnt has been in the red for the first half of this year who will probably be hack to the government with their hand out pretty soon. ~~v do they not just travel on the conventional airlines and not first class either because I do not agree with that. EPA does not have first class. MR. T. HICKEY: EPA is all first class. 156

November 25, 1975 Tnpe No. 65 Nil - 1 HR. NEARY: EPA is all first class. approve of that, Sir? and I wish that I had been one of the people to go to Ottawa recently. My hon. friend. next time I hope he will look after me, make sure that I get as far as Montreal anyway, and I will make it from there to Ottawa, But Air Canada is carryingm that tradition. first class. AN HON. MEMBER: There is no more first class. MR. NEARY! There is no more~ AN HON. MEMBER: Cancelled. MR.

NEARY: I remember once, Mr, Speaker -you know, we were under the impression. we were told that all ministers they were so high and mighty, they were like God Almighty, that they had to travel first class. I was not told it by my former boos. 1 was told it by a high ranking government official. The thing to do was for ministers to travel first class. And I remember, I think I only did it twice. AN HON. ME~ffiER: See the time. ~R.

NEARY: No, it was twice. remember, the second time it was, 1 got aboard of an aircraft in Montreal, Air Canada, and this fellow with n few drinks in, an old buddy of mine, sidled up to me and said, "Oh you are a big shot now. You are too good to sit back with me now. You <tre riding first class, u he said, "and you will have a job to drink all the booze that they will give you from the time you leave Montreal until you get to St. John's, and you will get a special steward to look after you, or stewardess." And he said, "You got her made, boy.

And me," he said, "poor old me nnd the poor old taxpayers are paying for it." My God, T said to myself, how true. against my principles. I guarantee you I changed that in a hurry. I never rode first class on the aircraft ap.ain. And ministers would do well, they would be thought more highly of, they will find out more of what is going on in Newfoundland and what is going on in the world if they would just hobnob with the ordinary person and instead of being tempted to ride first class on Air Canada, if you have to go to Ottawa on a trip, go economy, sit down with your buddies.

You will not become polluted or contaminated with the ordinary 157

:{ovember 25 , 1975 Tape No. 65 NM- 2 people. You will find lt most enjoyable. And so, Sir, we are going talking about retrenchments and cutbacks and belt tightening and what have you, this is one area that the government should take a good hard look at. Maybe I am going a little bit too far. Maybe I am being too hard when I say auction her off dovn at Torbay, down at St. John's Airport. Maybe that is going a little bit too far.

Put her in moth balls for the next couple of years and the Ministers of the Crown and the Lieutenant-Governor, and the Leader of the Opposition~who can joke about it and tell his colleagues that I used it once and went down with the Lieutenant-Governor, he is just as guilty. MR. ROBERTS: Haw about emergency eases? MR. NEARY: Emergency cases? Well, Sir, I cannot think of an eaergency case in this province that could not be taken care of if that aircraft vas up in De Havilland or wherever it came from. MR. HICKEY: That airc