Manitoba Hansard — Sitting 53B (39th Legislature, 3rd Session)

39-3-53b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session - Thirty-Ninth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. LXI No. 53B - 1:30 p.m., Thursday, June 4, 2009 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Ninth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLAN, Nancy, Hon. St. Vital N.D.P. ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson N.D.P. BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli N.D.P. BLADY, Sharon Kirkfield Park N.D.P. BLAIKIE, Bill, Hon. Elmwood N.D.P. BOROTSIK, Rick Brandon West P.C. BRAUN, Erna Rossmere N.D.P. BRICK, Marilyn St. Norbert N.D.P. BRIESE, Stuart Ste. Rose P.C. CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P. CULLEN, Cliff Turtle Mountain P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P. DOER, Gary, Hon.

Concordia N.D.P. DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside P.C. FAURSCHOU, David Portage la Prairie P.C. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach P.C. GRAYDON, Cliff Emerson P.C. HAWRANIK, Gerald Lac du Bonnet P.C. HICKES, George, Hon. Point Douglas N.D.P. HOWARD, Jennifer Fort Rouge N.D.P. IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri, Hon. Fort Garry N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. JHA, Bidhu Radisson N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LAMOUREUX, Kevin Inkster Lib. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns N.D.P.

MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MARCELINO, Flor Wellington N.D.P. MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McFADYEN, Hugh Fort Whyte P.C. McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon. Lord Roberts N.D.P. MELNICK, Christine, Hon. Riel N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East P.C. NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake N.D.P. OSWALD, Theresa, Hon. Seine River N.D.P. PEDERSEN, Blaine Carman P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. RONDEAU, Jim, Hon. Assiniboia N.D.P. ROWAT, Leanne Minnedosa P.C. SARAN, Mohinder The Maples N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield P.C. SELBY, Erin Southdale N.D.P. SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St. Boniface N.D.P.

STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon. Dauphin-Roblin N.D.P. SWAN, Andrew, Hon. Minto N.D.P. TAILLIEU, Mavis Morris P.C. WHITEHEAD, Frank The Pas N.D.P. WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. Swan River N.D.P.

2639 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Thursday, June 4, 2009 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Mr. Speaker: Please be seated. Routine proceedings; introduction of bills. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 215–The Elections Amendment and Elections Finances Amendment Act Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Mr. Speaker, I would move, seconded by the member from Steinbach, that Bill 215, The Elections Amendment and Elections Finances Amendment Act, be now read a first time. Mr.

Speaker: It's been moved by the honourable Member for Inkster, seconded by the honourable member of Steinbach, that Bill No. 215, The Elections Amendment and Elections Finances Amendment Act, be now read a first time. Mr. Lamoureux: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I think this bill is somewhat relevant in the sense that we need to have more accountability, and what this bill will do is will ensure that there's more accountability on behalf of things such as what we've seen in the last little while in terms of investigations that election Manitoba conducts.

All we need to do is to take a look in terms of see during the last number of questions periods related to the changing of donation of kinds to cheque exchange. These type of investigations should be coming back and reported to the Legislature. Thank you. Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? Agreed and so ordered. PETITIONS Photo Radar Mr. Blaine Pedersen (Carman): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

These are the reasons for this petition: It is important to protect the safety of construction workers who are on the job by having reduced speeds in construction zones when workers are present. The provincial government handed out tickets to thousands of Manitobans who were driving the regular posted speed limit in construction zones when there were no construction workers present. A Manitoba court has ruled that reduced speed zones in construction areas were intended to protect workers and that the tickets were given when no construction workers were present, where present were invalid.

The provincial government has decided not to collect unpaid fines given to motorists who were ticketed driving the normal posted speed limit when no construction workers were present. The provincial government is refusing to refund the money to the many hardworking, law-abiding Manitobans who are, who have already paid the fine for driving the regular speed limit in a construction zone when no workers were present. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the Attorney General (Mr.

Chomiak) consider refunding all monies collected from photo radar tickets given to motorists driving the regular posted speed limit in construction zones when no workers were present. This petition is signed by Gerry Wieler, Shelley Johnson, Laura Znak and many, many more fine Manitobans. Mr. Speaker: In accordance with our rule 132(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House. Ring Dike Road–Ste. Rose du Lac Mr. Stuart Briese (Ste. Rose): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba.

These are the reasons for this petition: The Ring Dike Road is a well-used gravel municipal road that is used as a secondary road in and out of the community of Ste. Rose du Lac. Given this heavy pattern of use, there is a strong interest in the community in seeing the Ring Dike Road upgraded to a paved provincial road.

2640 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 4, 2009 It would be most cost-effective to upgrade the Ring Dike Road to a provincial road at the same time that upgrades are being undertaken at the junction of Highway 68 and Highway 5. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation (Mr. Lemieux) to consider upgrading the Ring Dike Road at Ste.

Rose du Lac into a provincial road; To request the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation to consider upgrading the Ring Dike Road at the same time that work is being done on the junction of 6–Highway 68 and Highway 5. This petition is signed by Maurice Maguet, Alain Ingelbeen and Emile Bernardin and many, many other fine Manitobans. Long-Term Care Facilities–Morden and Winkler Mr. Peter Dyck (Pembina): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

And these are the reasons for this petition: Many seniors from the Morden and Winkler area are currently patients in the Boundary Trails Health Centre while they wait for placement in local personal care homes. There are presently no beds available for these patients in Salem Home and Tabor Home. To make more beds in the hospital available, the regional health authority is planning to move these patients to personal care homes in outlying regions. These patients have lived, worked and raised their families in this area for most of their lives.

They receive care and support from their family and friends who live in the community, and they will lose this support if they are forced to move to distant communities. These seniors and their families should not have to bear the consequences of the provincial government's failure to en sure there are adequate personal care home beds in the region. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the Minister of Health (Ms.

Oswald) to ensure that patients who are awaiting placement in a personal care home are not moved to distant communities; and To urge the Minister of Health to consider working with the RHA and the community to speed construction and expansion of long-term care facilities in the region. This is signed by John Unrau, Jake Hamm, Bill Friesen and many, many others. PTH 15 Mr. Ron Schuler (Springfield): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. These are the reasons for this petition.

In 2004, the Province of Manitoba made a public commitment to the people of Springfield to twin PTH 15 and the floodway bridge on PTH 15, but then in 2006, the twinning was cancelled. Injuries resulting from collisions on PTH 15 continue to rise and have doubled from 2007 to 2008. In August 2008, the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Lemieux) stated that preliminary analysis of current and future traffic demands indicate that local twinning will be required.

The current plan to replace the floodway bridge on PTH 15 does not include twinning and, therefore, does not fulfil the current nor future traffic demands cited by the Minister of transpitition–Transportation. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the Minister of Transportation consider the immediate twinning of the PTH 15 floodway bridge for the safety of the citizens of Manitoba. Signed by Barbara Acton; bus driver, Janet Onsowich; bus driver, Gordon Smith and many, many other Manitobans. Midwifery Services–Interlake Region Mrs.

Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. These are the reasons for this petition. Residents of the Interlake Regional Health Authority do not have access to midwifery services. Midwives provide high quality, cost-effective care to childbearing women throughout their pregnancy, birth and in the post-partum period.

June 4, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2641 Women in the Interlake should have access to midwifery care. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the Minister of Health (Ms. Oswald) to consider working with the Interlake Regional Health Authority to provide midwifery services to women in this health region. This is signed by Doris Unger, Lisa Rempel, Jo Reimer and many, many others. Winnipeg Regional Health Authority Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba.

The background to this petition is as follows: Manitoba's Premier and the NDP government have not recognized the issues of public concern related to the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority. The W–WRHA is building an administrative empire at the expense of bedside care. Winnipeg Regional Health Authority needs to be held accountable for the decisions it is making. Health-care workers are being pressured into not being able to speak out no matter what the WRHA is doing or has done. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the Premier (Mr.

Doer) and the NDP government to call a meeting of a standing committee of the Legislature and invite representatives of the WRHA to appear before it. Mr. Speaker, this is signed E. Tongol, J. Tongol, T. Polvoros and many, many other fine Manitobans. Thank you. Photo Radar Mr. Ralph Eichler (Lakeside): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. These are the reasons for this petition: It is important to protect the safety of construction workers who are on the job by having reduced speeds in construction zones when workers are present.

Provincial government handed out tickets to thousands of Manitobans who were driving the regular posted speed limit in construction zones where there were no construction workers present. A manicor–Manitoba court has ruled that reduced speed zones in construction areas were intended to protect workers and that tickets were given areas intended to protect workers that tickets were given when no construction workers were present were invalid.

The provincial government has decided not to collect unpaid fines given to motorists who were ticketed driving the normal posted speed limit when no construction workers were present. Provincial government is refusing to pay–refund the money to many hardworking, law-abiding Manitobans who already paid the fine for driving the regular speed limit in a construction zone when no workers were present. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the Attorney General (Mr.

Chomiak) consider refunding all monies collected from photo radar tickets give n to motorists driving the regular posted speed limit in construction zones where no workers were present. Submitted on behalf of Leona Weisz, Ken Dunsmore, Larry Klimpke and many, many others. * (13:40) Mr. Speaker: Committee reports. COMMITTEE REPORTS Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development Second Report Ms. Erin Selby (Chairperson): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the Second Report of the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development.

Madam Clerk (Patricia Chaychuk): Your Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development– Mr. Speaker: Dispense? Some Honourable Members: Dispense. Mr. Speaker: Dispense. Your Standing Committee on Social & Economic Development presents the following as its Second Report.

2642 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 4, 2009 Meetings Your Committee met on June 3, 2009 in room 254 of the Legislative Building. Matters under Consideration • Bill (No. 5) – The Highway Traffic Amendment Act (Promoting Safer and Healthier Conditions in Motor Vehicles)/Loi modifiant le Code de la route (promotion de la santé et de la sécurité dans les véhicules automobiles) • Bill (No. 20) – The Manitoba Hydro Amendment and Public Utilities Board Amendment Act (Electricity Reliability)/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l'Hydro-Manitoba et la

Loi sur la Régie des services publics (fiabilité du réseau électrique) • Bill (No. 24) – The Colleges Amendment and Le Collège Universitaire de Saint-Boniface Amendment Act (College Degrees)/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les collèges et la

Loi sur le Collège universitaire de Saint-Boniface (grades des collèges) • Bill (No. 29) – The Environment Amendment Act/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l'environnement Committee Membership • Hon. Mr. ASHTON • Mr. CULLEN • Mr. DERKACH • Mr. DEWAR • Mr. DYCK • Hon. Ms. IRVIN-ROSS • Ms. MARCELINO • Hon. Ms. MCGIFFORD • Mrs. MITCHELSON • Ms. SELBY • Hon. Mr. STRUTHERS Your Committee elected Ms. S ELBY as the Chairperson. Your Committee elected Ms. M ARCELINO as the Vice-Chairperson. Substitutions received during committee proceedings: • Mr. MAGUIRE for Mr. MITCHELSON • Hon. Mr. RONDEAU for Mr.

DEWAR Public Presentations Your Committee heard the following eight presentations on Bill (No. 5) – The Highway Traffic Amendment Act (Promoting Safer and Healthier Conditions in Motor Vehicles)/Loi modifiant le Code de la route (promotion de la santé et de la sécurité dans les véhicules automobiles): Derek Hay, Radio Amateurs of Canada Bob Dolyniuk, Manitoba Trucking Association Jeff Dovyak, ARES-Amateur Radio Emergency Service Loretta Corbeil, Manitoba Lung Association Geof Bawden, Winnipeg Amateur Radio Club Joan Wilson, Unicity Taxi Curtis Basso, Manitoba Association of School Business Officials Phil Walding, Duffy's Taxi Your Committee heard the following presentation on Bill (No. 20) – The Manitoba Hydro Amendment and Public Utilities Board Amendment Act (Electricity Reliability)/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l'Hydro- Manitoba et la

Loi sur la Régie des services publics (fiabilité du réseau électrique): Gaile Whelan-Enns, Manitoba Wild Lands Your Committee heard the following three presentations on Bill (No. 29) – The Environment Amendment Act/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l'environnement: Greg Bruce, Ducks Unlimited Canada Gaile Whelan-Enns, Manitoba Wild Lands Glen Koroluk, Beyond Factory Farming Written Submissions Your Committee received the following two written submissions on Bill (No. 5) – The Highway Traffic Amendment Act (Promoting Safer and Healthier Conditions in Motor Vehicles)/Loi modifiant le Code de la route (promotion de la santé et de la sécurité dans les véhicules automobiles): Bryan H.

Crowley, Consider the Possibilities Murray Gibson, Manitoba Tobacco Reduction Alliance Bills Considered and Reported • Bill (No. 5) – The Highway Traffic Amendment Act (Promoting Safer and Healthier Conditions in Motor Vehicles)/Loi modifiant le Code de la route (promotion de la santé et de la sécurité dans les véhicules automobiles)

June 4, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2643 Your Committee agreed to report this Bill, with the following amendments: THAT Clause 3 of the Bill be amended by adding the following after the proposed subsection 215.1(3): Exception C police, fire and ambulance personnel 215.1(3.1) Subsection (2) does not apply to any of the following persons in relation to the use of a hand-operated electronic device in carrying out his or her duties: (

a) a member of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Force or another police officer, police constable or constable; (

b) a firefighter employed by a fire department; (

c) an ambulance operator as defined in

section 1 of The Emergency Medical Response and Stretcher Transportation Act. • Bill (No. 20) – The Manitoba Hydro Amendment and Public Utilities Board Amendment Act (Electricity Reliability)/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l'Hydro-Manitoba et la

Loi sur la Régie des services publics (fiabilité du réseau électrique) Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. • Bill (No. 24) – The Colleges Amendment and Le Collège Universitaire de Saint-Boniface Amendment Act (College Degrees)/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les collèges et la

Loi sur le Collège universitaire de Saint-Boniface (grades des collèges) Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. • Bill (No. 29) – The Environment Amendment Act/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l'environnement Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. Ms. Selby: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Wellington (Ms. Marcelino), that the report of the committee be received. Mr. Speaker: It has been moved by the honourable Member for Southdale, seconded by the honourable Member for Wellington, that the report of the committee be received. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? Some Honourable Members: Agreed. Mr. Speaker: Agreed and so ordered. Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs Third Report Ms. Erna Braun (Chairperson): Mr.

Speaker, I wish to present the Third Report of the Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs. Madam Clerk (Patricia Chaychuk): Your Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs presents the following as its Third Report. Mr. Speaker: Dispense? Some Honourable Members: Dispense. Mr. Speaker: Dispense. Your Standing Committee on LEGISLATIVE AFFAIRS presents the following as its Third Report. Meeting Your Committee met on Wednesday, June 3, 2009 at 6:00 p.m. in Room 255 of the Legislative Building. Matters under Consideration • Bill (No. 12) – The Residential Tenancies Amendment Act/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la location à usage d'habitation • Bill (No. 14) – The Consumer Protection Amendment Act (Payday Loans)/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la protection du consommateur (prêts de dépannage) • Bill (No. 19) – The Mortgage Dealers Amendment and Securities Amendment Act/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les courtiers d'hypothèques et la

Loi sur les valeurs mobilières • Bill (No. 22) – The Cooperatives Amendment Act/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les coopératives Committee Membership Committee Membership for the Wednesday, June 3, 2009 meeting: • Mr. ALTEMEYER • Hon. Mr. BJORNSON • Ms. BRAUN (Chairperson) • Ms. BRICK

2644 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 4, 2009 • Mr. BRIESE • Mrs. DRIEDGER • Mr. FAURSCHOU • Hon. Mr. MACKINTOSH • Mr. NEVAKSHONOFF (Vice-Chairperson) • Mr. PEDERSEN • Hon. Mr. SELINGER Public Presentations Your Committee heard the following five presentations on Bill (No. 12) – The Residential Tenancies Amendment Act/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la location à usage d'habitation: Ron Penner, The Professional Property Managers' Association Larry Todd, Private Citizen Lois Todd, Private Citizen Jean Yves Rochon, Manitoba Council on Aging George McBride, Private Citizen Your Committee heard the following six presentations on Bill (No. 14) – The Consumer Protection Amendment Act (Payday Loans)/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la protection du consommateur (prêts de dépannage): Antoine Hacault, Cash Store Financial Gloria Desorcy, Manitoba Branch of the Consumers Association of Canada Robert Thompson, The Money Tree Byron Williams, Public Interest Law Centre John Silver, Community Financial Counselling Services Laurie Johnson, New Directions for Children, Youth, Adults & Families Your Committee heard the following two presentations on Bill (No. 19) – The Mortgage Dealers Amendment and Securities Amendment Act/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les courtiers d'hypothèques et la

Loi sur les valeurs mobilières: Buzz Grant, Mortgage Logic Daryl Harris, Canadian A ssociation of Accredited Mortgage Professionals Your Committee heard the following presentation on Bill (No. 22) – The Cooperatives Amendment Act/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les coopératives: Randy Schroeder, Granny's Poultry Cooperative (MB) Ltd. Written Submissions Your Committee received the following two written submissions on Bill (No. 14) – The Consumer Protection Amendment Act (Payday Loans)/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la protection du consommateur (prêts de dépannage): Gerry Charlebois, A1 Financing & Loans Hon. Stan Keyes, P.C., Canadian Payday Loan Association Your Committee received the following written submission on Bill (No. 19) – The Mortgage Dealers Amendment and Securities Amendment Act/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les courtiers d'hypothèques et la

Loi sur les valeurs mobilières: Murray J. Taylor, IGM Financial Inc. Bill Considered and Reported • Bill (No. 12) – The Residential Tenancies Amendment Act/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la location à usage d'habitation Your Committee agreed to report this Bill, without amendment. • Bill (No. 14) – The Consumer Protection Amendment Act (Payday Loans)/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la protection du consommateur (prêts de dépannage) Your Committee agreed to report this Bill, without amendment. • Bill (No. 19) – The Mortgage Dealers Amendment and Securities Amendment Act/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les courtiers d'hypothèques et la

Loi sur les valeurs mobilières Your Committee agreed to report this Bill, without amendment. • Bill (No. 22) – The Cooperatives Amendment Act/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les coopératives Your Committee agreed to report this Bill, without amendment. Ms. Braun: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for St. Norbert (Ms. Brick), that the report of the committee be received. Mr. Speaker: It has been moved by the honourable Member for Rossmere, seco nded by the honourable

June 4, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2645 Member for St. Norbert, that the report of the committee be received. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? Some Honourable Members: Agreed. Mr. Speaker: Agreed and so ordered. Tabling of reports; ministerial statements. Introduction of Guests Mr. Speaker: Prior to oral questions, I'd like to draw the attention of honourable members to the Speaker's Gallery where we have with us today the Minister of Agriculture for the State of Punjab, India, Honourable Mr.

Sucha Singh Langah; and the managing director for Punjab Agro Industries Corporation Ltd., Mr. Santosh Kumar Sandhu. On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you here today, and these are the guests of the honourable minister for Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives. And also in the public gallery we have with us from Wild Rose School, we have 7 grade 5 to 9 students under the direction of Mr. Marshall Toews. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable Member for Steinbach (Mr. Goertzen). On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you here today. Oral questions.

ORAL QUESTIONS 1999 Election Campaign Rebates Investigation Mr. Hugh McFadyen (Leader of the Official Opposition): In addition to the false election returns filed by the NDP after the 1999 election, it appears that the NDP manufactured a paper trail that included cheque swaps that totalled more than $150,000, and it appears, also, Mr. Speaker, to, to have involved questionable invoices. Mr. Speaker, all this was designed to take Manitoba taxpayers to the cleaners, all of which is known to Elections Manitoba. Mr. Speaker, yesterday, the Minister of Finance (Mr.

Selinger) said that these transactions were deliberate and that, as he understands it, the practice had been going on for an extended period of time prior to 1999. I want to ask the Minister of Finance what steps, if any, he has taken as a trustee of taxpayers' money to recover money wrongly paid to the NDP in the period prior to 1999. Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr. Speaker, one would note that the, the Minister of Finance obviously was involved and commented yesterday on this issue. When the filing was made with Elections Manitoba, it was first–firstly accepted.

It was then brought to our attention that there was concerns that they had in terms of the filing, and we worked with them in a co-operative way. We worked with them in a co-operative way to amend the statements and the money was paid back. I also would want to point out, Mr. Speaker, just to make sure on the big picture that the public is aware of what's going on. In the 1999 election, in terms of a level playing field, the Conservatives did outspend the NDP in the 1999 election. In the 2003 election– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Order. Order. Let's have some order, please.

We need to hear the questions and the answers. The honourable First Minister has the floor. Mr. Doer: In the 2003 election, under former Leader of the Opposition Murray, the NDP did outplay, out– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Order. Order. Order. The honourable First Minister's time has expired. Mr. McFadyen: We are, we are aware of the fact that, that between party, union and government spending in 2007, they spent three times as much of us, and I'm sure that's gonna be his next point. But, beyond that, Mr.

Speaker, beyond demanding and reserving–and receiving a self-serving letter from his central party, beyond demanding and receiving this self-serving letter on the part of the Minister of Finance, what steps did the minister take to raise this with the leader of his party, and what other steps did he take to protect Manitoba taxpayers who he has been sworn to defend?

2646 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 4, 2009 Mr. Doer: Well, Mr. Speaker, and I would point out that this party in dealing with the issues in, in 1995 and then, again, in 1999, promised to ban union and corporate donations. Certainly we did so in the belief that it improved the level playing field and democracy. We did so in recognition of the, the challenges in terms of union donations that were made to us over the years.

We also did so in terms of the corporate donations that were made to the Conservative Party, some of which came from companies that borrowed money from the provincial government and never paid it back. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Order. Mr. Doer: I'm sure they had the same concern for the taxpayers when those transactions happened, Mr. Speaker. Mr. McFadyen: Mr. Speaker, and we are, we–we're familiar with the union contributions made to the NDP in 2007, and we'll have a discussion about that as time goes forward.

But, referring to the issue of, of the Finance Minister's comments yester day, we know that it was a deliberate scheme. We know that a paper trail was put together. There, there was a cheque swap, a series of transactions. There were questionable invoices. There were false returns. The Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger) said yesterday that he knows it was deliberate. He knows it went on for an extended period of time. I want to ask the Minister of Finance: Why hasn't he done his duty? Why hasn't he gone and recovered that money on behalf of the taxpayers of Manitoba? Mr. Doer: Mr.

Speaker, I would note that the, the Minister of Finance talked at great length about the capacity and decision to ban union and corporate donations. We–I would point out that between 1990 and 1994, contributions to the Conservative Party from brokerage firms that worked eventually for MTS were $49,000. From '95 to 90–2000, the bro– same brokerage firms donated $150,000 of corporate donations in return–in retu rn for the sale of the telephone company– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Order. Mr. Doer: –we're more than willing to– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Order. Order.

Order. Let's have some order. We don't need no shouting back and forth here. Order. It's time for questions and responses to questions. The honourable First Minister has the floor. Mr. Doer: Yes, Mr. Speaker, there was over 100,000 additional money collected from brokerage firms that were hired by the Conservative government to sell the telephone system against the wishes of Manitobans. So let not the members act like Snow White. We worked with Ma–Elections Manitoba.

We worked with them in a co-operative way, and we stand by the decisions with Elections Manitoba. * (13:50) 1999 Election Campaign Rebates Investigation Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Mr. Speaker, when it comes to the NDP 1999 election scandal, the wall that they're content to hide behind is that Elections Manitoba conducted an investigation. We learnt yesterday that one of the NDP official agents who had his election return falsified by the NDP party, to trigger taxpayers' dollars back to the NDP, was never even interviewed by Elections Manitoba.

The Minister of Finance wants us to believe that he didn't hear about it to 2003, and I gather that he wasn't interviewed. Mr. Speaker: Order. Order. Mr. Goertzen: Mr. Speaker– Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Goertzen: –does the government still want to hide behind the crumbling wall that there was an investigation when the official agents and the candidates weren't even interviewed by Elections Manitoba? Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): I, I note that the elections report that the members opposite are talking about, some wall, Mr. Speaker.

This was tabled in 2004 in this Legislature, in December, in this House, tabled in this House, available to all the public. It went–it went to the legislative committee in December of 2004. It went to the legislative committee in 2006. It went to the legislative committee in 2008. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order.

June 4, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2647 Mr. Doer: It went to the legislative committee and the Chief Electoral Officer answered in 2009. We co-operate with Elections Manitoba. We trust their integrity. This report was public, and we worked with them, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Goertzen: Mr. Speaker, there was no answer to the question. Elections Manitoba, Elections Manitoba didn't bother to interview– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Goertzen: –the official agents. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Order. Order. The honourable Member for Steinbach. Mr.

Goertzen: The Elections Manitoba didn't bother to interview the official agents who had their election returns falsified. They didn't talk to the candidates. It's a bit like after a bank robbery not having the police talk to the people who were actually in the bank when the robbery took place. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Goertzen: Mr. Speaker, the only person Elections Manitoba was interested in are the ones who apparently conducted the scheme. That's who they talked to. Does the campaign co-chair for the 1999 campaign, the Minister of Finance (Mr.

Selinger), does he still stand behind the fact that this was a good investigation when they didn't bother to interview the official agents, when they didn't bother to interview the candidates who had their returns changed, Mr. Speaker? Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Doer: Well, Mr. Speaker, under the Conservative des–definition, if you file a statement and then amend a statement, allegedly under the Conservatives, it's false. One should look at a number of people that have amended their statements from the 2007 election. Elections Manitoba could speak for themselves.

They don't need the member from Steinbach, they don't need the member from Steinbach– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Order. Let's have some order. Order. Order, please. Let's have a little decorum here. The honourable First Minister has the floor. Mr. Doer: Elections Manitoba can speak for themselves. They cou–they presented before the committee in 2008 with many media members present–that the Deloi tte accounting firm was involved in the, in this issue. They also stated that Michael Green and Blair Graham were involved.

I would suggest with the greatest respect to the member of Steinbach, they have a lot more credibility as lawyers than the member opposite, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Goertzen: Mr. Speaker, in fact, Elections Manitoba can't speak for themselves. We'd love to know why they didn't interview the 13 official agents. We'd love to know why they didn't interview the candidates. You know– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Goertzen: –the only people that they responded to was the NDP who pressured them to get rid of the forensic auditor on the 1999 campaign.

You know, it was the Premier who in 1998, on June 25th, said that when there was an investigation by Elections Manitoba, there was found to be lacking, that there needed to be, and I quote, a credible person who is independent of the first ingest–investigation to conduct an investigation into the new allegations. Does he stand by the comment back in 1998? Mr. Doer: Yes I do, Mr. Speaker, and if you go on further through th e comments, you'll find, that they, that I stated they didn't have the tools. They didn't have The Evidence Act. They didn't have the ability to have forensic audits.

They didn't have the ability to have an independent, an independent, an independent person who could prosecute crimes. All of those changes were made post the Monnin inquiry. Justice Monnin came to the same conclusion I did, that Elections Manitoba was a, was a body– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Doer: a body– Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Doer: –a body of integrity, a body that with– that all they required was more tools. They made

2648 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 4, 2009 recommendations to the Legislature. We changed the, the, The Elections Act, Mr. Speaker. And I'll go on further on Mr. Balasko's comments 'cause he made a number of comments in July of '08 and in '09, not all of which was reported and should be on the public record. 1999 Election Forensic Auditor Concerns Mr. Hugh McFadyen (Leader of the Official Opposition): When we asked Mr. Balasko to explain the investigations, he said, sorry, I can't talk to you about that. We asked the question over and over again. The Member for Steinbach (Mr.

Goertzen) asked him the same series of questions nine times in a row, Mr. Speaker, and that was the response we got. Now, Mr. Speaker, David Asselstine, who is a respected forensic auditor, in fact, has worked on behalf of the International Monetary Fund, he's a certified fraud investigator, he is a respected international forensic auditor, has raised concerns with Elections Manitoba about another separate issue, one that's separate and apart from the issue of the cheque swaps and false returns that we're now talking about. The issue involves a dispute between Mr. Asselstine and Mr.

Balasko over contributions to the federal and the provincial New Democratic Party. Can the Premier shed any light on any transactions involving the provincial and federal NDP that caught the attention of this internationally respected forensic auditor? Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Well, Mr. Speaker, the matters dealing–we did not have two bank accounts as we saw with the Lombard account and the Progressive Conservative Party. Everything in terms of the financial statements is available to Deloitte, as Mr. Balasko has testified, and available to Mr. Green and Mr. Blair Graham. Mr.

Speaker, we know that they go over the forms. In fact, they went over them in considerable length. That's the conclusions they made. This report was tabled on December of 2004. It was before the legislative committee and on a number of occasions, Mr. Balasko said, and I quote, we rely on independent legal advice, we rely on the individual that all of us have accepted as the investigator for Elections Manitoba. Mr. McFadyen: Mr.

Asselstine raised concerns with Blair Graham in 2004 about the Deloitte opinion that the Premier is referring to and the fact that he had never been contacted by Deloitte's in connection with whatever review it was that they undertook, Mr. Speaker. We know that that review has never been released publicly, even though there is a legal requirement for auditors' statements to be on the public record, and now we have a situation where Mr. Asselstine has raised a concern and is in a dispute with Mr. Balasko over certain contributions made to the federal and the provincial New Democratic parties.

I want to ask the Prem ier whether he has any concern about the fact that Mr. Asselstine and Mr. Balasko have differing opinions on this and whether this may call for somebody independent to take a look at all the files and come to a conclusion that Manitobans can have faith in. Mr. Doer: The individual mentions that he would discuss it with Blair Graham, the legal counsel for Elections Manitoba. Mr. Balasko said at the committee that he discussed these issues with Mr. Graham and Mr. Green. He said that at the committee nine or 10 times, and he relied on their advice. Mr.

Speaker, the individual the member opposite mentioned, said, you know, we would lose elections. That's his opinion. He's entitled to it. At the end of the day, any kind of issues of law are dealt with by the two lawyers that report to the Chief Electoral Officer. Mr. McFadyen: Mr. Speaker, at the time of the Elections Manitoba prosecutions following 1999, one of the judges commented on the heavy-handed approach taken by Elections Manitoba toward Tory candidates. I wonder, Mr. Speaker, what the view would have been of those people who were involved if they had been aware of these transactions which Mr.

Asselstine raised in a letter to Mr. Graham as a concern about the incomplete disclosure contained in the Elections Manitoba report which didn't come out until after the 2003 election, and which didn't come out until after the 2003 election because as Mr. Asselstine says, he and Mr. Balasko agreed that may have had an impact on that election if the public was made aware of what had gone on. Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the Premier if he can shed any light today to restore the credibility of all involved in the process on the transactions that Mr. Asselstine is referring to involving the provincial

June 4, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2649 and the federal NDP, or whether the Member for Elmwood (Mr. Blaikie) can help us with that one. Mr. Doer: On page 17 of the report, page 17 of the report goes into full detail. I won't have time to go through it. If members opposite haven't read it yet, it was tabled in this House in December of 2004. It was at the committee in 2004. It was at the committee in 2006. Mr. Speaker, if members opposite thought this was a huge issue, I assume they would have raised it in the election campaign in 2007.

You know, maybe I should stand up here and whine about fighting two political parties in 1995. Maybe I should complain that the overexpenditure that was made in 9, 2 thou, in 1995 didn't become public until 2000. That's not the way it works, Mr. Speaker. * (14:00) 1999 Election Forensic Auditor Concerns Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Mr. Speaker, the 1999 election investigation by Elections Manitoba seems to have been nothing more than talking to the NDP people who had the most to hide. The official agents were never called.

It doesn't appear that the candidates who had their returns changed were ever contacted. The Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger), who was only worried about protecting himself, he says he didn't know. The chief ethics officer for the NDP, the Premier (Mr. Doer), he wasn't talking about it. Now we learn that there was another matter that was also investigated by Elections Manitoba, and that appears to be the issue of taking a contribution for the provincial NDP and splitting that donation, that tax receipt, with the federal NDP.

Does the Minister of Justice, or does the Premier, do they know how rigorously this investigation was into this issue? Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): You know, Mr. Speaker, calling out names and calling out allegations, one-sided– Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Chomiak: –is the way things worked when Monnin said he'd never seen so many liars in his life. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Chomiak: I know that Elections Manitoba investigated me. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Chomiak: I know Elections Manitoba investigated other members of this House.

Then they bring about a result. The fact that some of your candidates were convicted is a problem for you. The fact that they said to us, amend your regulations and we accept it, is what happened. Because you can't handle the truth, Mr. Speaker, you have to make allegations spuriously in this House. Mr. Goertzen: Mr. Speaker, I would like to table for the House a letter written in December of 2004 to Elections Manitoba lawyer by the, by Mr. David Asseltine, the world-renowned forensic auditor who will also look at the 1999 election campaign. In the letter, in the letter, Mr.

Asseltine indicates that the CEO of Elections Manitoba looked into the legality of federal NDP tax receipts being issued for donations that may not have been intended for the federal party. While the CEO concluded that charges were not warranted–and, boy, that sounds familiar– Mr. Asseltine says that he may not have been of the same opinion, but he was not able to make that final conclusion because he wasn't given the information to look into it. Mr. Speaker, does the NDP co-chair for the 1999 campaign, the Minister of Justice, does he know how thoroughly this was investigated? Mr. Chomiak: Mr.

Speaker, and I swear I never beat my dog. You know, Mr. Speaker, allegations are made– you know, I just love these guys. Allegations are made to the CEO who says there's no basis for charges, and now–allegations are made. The CEO says there's no charges, and you stand up six years later– Mr. Speaker: Order. Order. Mr. Chomiak: –and try to make an issue out of it. The leader of the Liberal Party stood up and said there was a problem with NDP hacks working at the Legislature. We were investigated. No charges were laid. The Member for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux) stood up and investigated. You're being investigated.

I suspect we're all being investigated. If charges are laid, charges are laid. We'll deal with it.

2650 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 4, 2009 When the auditor said there was an accounting error, it was fixed. It was put in the report and it was public. This is an opinion. This is an opinion, Mr. Speaker, that the CEO rejected. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Goertzen: I think if the Minister of Justice had a dog, it might help his temperament a little bit, Mr. Speaker. Elections Manitoba investigation didn't include the official agent. It didn't include the candidates. The forensic auditor who was investigating was removed after the NDP complained about him. The Minister of Finance (Mr.

Selinger) was worried, so he got a letter to try to cover himself. The president of Treasury Board, an official agent from the NDP, some of the media are calling for an inquiry. The Premier (Mr. Doer), hi mself, in the past said that when there was a bad investigation by Elections Manitoba, there needed to be an outside investigator, another credible source. You know, there are now further questions about how tax receipts were issued by the NDP, whether they were split between the provincial and the federal party.

Is the Premier so concerned about his political skin, is he so worried about his political legacy that he won't do the right thing like other premiers in the past have done who had integrity and called for that public inquiry? Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, there' s been hours and hours of committee testimony on this. There was an investigation. The members opposite alleged it was a bad investigation. They argued. They argued it for hours. Mr. Speaker, the federal Conservative Party was found– Mr. Speaker: Order. Order. Order. Order. The honourable member asked a question. Let the honourable member give a response.

The shouting back and forth trying to drown the member out is not gonna work in this House. We have to hear the questions and the answers. The honourable Attorney General has the floor. Mr. Chomiak: Elections Canada found that the federal Conservative Party used a cheque-swapping scheme. The federal Conservative Party took Elections Canada to court. Mr. Speaker, we have an independent process. It's independently investigated.

Now to go back six years and start dropping letters about opinions and allegations that are made, that are investigated, that are reviewed and put into a report, when, in fact, in 1995 the same thing happened with the Conservative Party when their auditor would not sign off on a statement. He refused–it's in, it's in the report. He did not sign the statement, and the Tories had to give the money back. It's the exact same thing except we– Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Chomiak: –have more rigorous controls now. Mr. Speaker: Order. Education Curriculum Mandatory Physical Education Program Mr.

Ron Schuler (Springfield): Mr. Speaker, we have an alarming crisis in Manitoba or rather another alarming crisis in Manitoba where nearly one out of every three children in the province is overweight, and the response to this crisis, we have the Minister of Education who promotes light dusting as physical activity for grade 11 and 12 students. I ask the minister: Has he ever participated in a physical fitness program himself that he would know that light dusting isn't going to raise your heart rate, let alone break out in sweat?

Can this minister admit that his mandatory phys ed program, at an initial cost of $2.1 million to the taxpayer, is more about scoring political points and less about improving the health of our young people? Hon. Peter Bjornson (M inister of Education, Citizenship and Youth): Well, Mr. Speaker, I don't know where to begin with that question, but I do recall the promises made by the opposition in 2003 election that they would focus spending on basic education and determine whether physical education, art, music, performing arts, band and other specialized programs are part of that new definition.

That's what they said. Two or three schools might have to share one phys ed or music teacher if the subject was not considered part of basic education. Well, Mr. Speaker, we think that physical education is part of basic education. We think that physical education is something that has been recommended by the all- party task force, that we have it compulsory in grade 11 and 12. It is compulsory in grade 11 and 12, and we have research conducted to assess the impact of that model, and we're finding it's working.

June 4, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2651 Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Schuler: Mr. Speaker, 31 percent of Manitoba's children and youth are considered overweight or obese. Where's the minister been? He should know that number. We also know that 87 percent of children and youth are not meeting the physical activity guideline of 90 minutes of physical activity a day. Fortunately, we have an NDP government who would rather develop farcical programs to score political points rather than take, than take real action to improve the overall health of our young people. For example, the Member for Thompson (Mr.

Ashton) suggested that sandbagging be included in the school curriculum. Great. Our kids, Mr. Speaker, our kids with–our kids have the highest drop-out rate in the nation, but they can sure make a mean sandbag– Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Schuler: I ask this– Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Schuler: –Minister of Education: Is he satisfied with his failed mandatory phys ed program that promotes light dusting– Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Schuler: –and a degree in sandbagging– Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Schuler: –as part of an active lifestyle? Mr. Bjornson: Well, thank you very much, Mr.

Speaker, and you know, it's, it's rather fascinating because this is a group that was going to fund $10 million for all schools. That was the increase they proposed for schools of excellence, and he's making light of the fact that we spent $2.1 million last year on the education curriculum alone. Now, Mr.

Speaker, we have had our education consultants at national conferences where they are holding up our curriculum as an example nationally, and the healthy kids, the Active Healthy Kids Canada report that was issued, said in September of '08, Manitoba became the first province in Canada to take a strong leadership role regarding phys ed policy. [interjection] Now–if heckling was a credit they'd, they'd have graduated long ago. [interjection] They'll be repeating that for a few years. * (14:10) Mr. Schuler: Mr. Speaker, Manitoba is the fourth fattest province in all of Canada. The minister should be doing his job.

To turn this crisis around, we need to get our kids more active throughout all their school years. To think that we can turn overweight, sedate kids into robust lean versions of Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt in grade 11 and 12 by putting a feather duster in their hands is absurd. This 2.1-million mandatory phys ed program was flawed from the start because this minister didn't take into account the lack of resources and facilities. One family was outraged. Their son was wasting time in a computer lab in a mandatory gym class. How do students achieve physical fitness sitting at a computer?

Will he roll up his sleeves, show leadership and actually deal with the health issues facing our students? Mr. Bjornson: Well, as, as the Active Healthy Kids Canada report card said, the value of this policy is that it requires specific amounts of physical education and stems the drop-out in phys ed typically observed during secondary school. In other provinces, rate of participation in phys ed declined dramatically once the required credits are completed. We in Manitoba require compuls–compulsory physical education, Mr. Speaker. And, Mr.

Speaker, if he–if he were to talk to the phys ed teachers across Manitoba, he'd get a much different version of his, his perspective on the realities in our schools, and he's really not giving credit to those phys ed teachers across Canada, but, of course, they don't talk to teachers. They don't listen to teachers, so they wouldn't understand this. Physical education teachers across the province have embraced this program, and there is daily quality physical education.

And, yes, there is a component that does require learning about health and the healthy living choices that you make, and that's why it's computer based for some of the learning that is required in the health curriculum, Mr. Speaker. It's a holistic approach. Bill 6 First Nation Communities Consultations Mrs. Leanne Rowat (Minnedosa): Mr. Speaker, Bill 6, The East Side Traditional Lands Planning and Special Protected Areas Act, is going to committee this evening.

2652 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 4, 2009 The Minister of Conservation said when the bill was introduced: For, for too many years, people living in the east side–on the east side of Lake Winnipeg living in First Nations have been left out of the decision-making process. I have been informed th at the only consultation was a brief meeting where the Province made a PowerPoint presentation. After the presentation, the government picked up every copy of the presentation. Mr.

Speaker, how can Manitobans have any faith in the decisions that this government makes when they don't include Manitobans in their decision- making process and they want to unilaterally develop a land-use strategy? Hon. Stan Struthers (Min ister of Conservation): I would–I would advise the member opposite to do a little bit of homework before she comes in and makes those kind of allegations, 'cause she's just wrong again, Mr. Speaker. I'll have the member think back to many conversations we have had here, where we have informed the House that over 80 meetings on the east side of Lake Manitoba have occurred, Mr.

Speaker. That's a start. We did get together with those chiefs that the member has recognized in her question today, and we met with them. Since then, we've met with each of the different regions in which we're looking at management boards for each of them. We've met with those chiefs and councils in those m eetings. We've done a whole series of meetings in the communities with chiefs and councils, with their elders, a whole host of meetings with the communities themselves. We've been there; we've done that consultation, Mr. Speaker. Mrs. Rowat: And this minister is misinforming the House.

Those discussions were suspended over three years ago without any resolution, and any ideas that were presented were dis–dis–displaced, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Gods Lake Narrows First Nation wanted to make a presentation on Bill 6. They were informed by fax this morning that committee was meeting tonight. This commun–community is isolated. The ice roads are not in operation, and the community members could only access Winnipeg by plane. Mr. Speaker, does this mi nister not realize that this legislation impacts one-seventh of Manitoba is captured in this bill? Mr.

Speaker, how can community members be expected to travel to Winnipeg with less than one day's notice? Gods Lake Narrows is 547 kilometres by air northeast of Winnipeg. How can this government claim that they are being inclusive to these communities? Mr. Struthers: At, at many of those meetings that the member refuses to believe were actually attended by those chiefs that she's talking about, we talked about the procedure by which they could register to make presentations on Bill 6 when it, when it did pass at second reading.

Those who registered were informed by the Clerk's office, in their very efficient way, to those who had put their names forward to be notified and they were all notified. Over and above that, Mr. Speaker, I took it upon myself to contact each of the, of the chiefs involved to make sure that they knew that this bill was coming forward because only one of the chiefs had put their name forward on the list. So I thought that would be a good thing for me to do to contact them. We sent letters. We faxed them letters as soon as we knew, and we contacted the band offices and talked to the chiefs directly. So, Mr.

Speaker, the Member for Minnedosa is just wrong. Mrs. Rowat: Mr. Speaker, the chief for Gods Lake Narrows received a fax from this minister's office this morning telling them of the committee tonight. That's not communication. When the–a chief asked for a clarification and indicated the concern of getting to Winnipeg, this minister had no response and no solution for him. It is clear that proper consultation has not taken place. There is need for open discussion, and we need to ensure that proper consultation does take place.

East-side communities wanna be given an opportunity to understand and accept the options. Instead, this government is making decisions and ignoring these communities. Mr. Speaker, when will the minister defer this– will the minister defer this bill until the fall so that the communities affected are given a real opportunity to participate in this process? They are not

June 4, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2653 consulting. They are stonewalling this–the communities on the east side. Mr. Struthers: This, this approach by the Member for Minnedosa is a thin disguise for their non-support of a historic piece of legislation that will finally, finally, Mr. Speaker, include these First Nations in the decision making. Mr. Speaker, two months ago, when I met with Chief Andrews of Gods Lake, we talked about the process by which he could get on the list to be notified like everybody else in the province when the bill comes forward for presentation.

I spoke with Chief Andrews today and we talked about Bill 6, and I explained to him the process, again, by which you would go to get your name forward to, to be, to make presentations. Having said that, Mr. Speaker, this government ma–remains committed to working with Chief Andrews and every other chief on the east side of Lake Winnipeg so that we can right the wrongs of the past, which former members never had the courage to do. 1999 Election Campaign Returns Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Mr.

Speaker, following the 1999 provincial election, the campaign central of the New Democrat Party, which is chaired or co-chaired by today's Minister of Justice, instructed that 13 candidates, NDP candidates, would change a donation of kind into a cheque exchange for the party central which would, if successful, would have illegally gotten over $70,000 for the NDP party. The question I have for the Minister of Justice was, is: Was the Minister of Justice aware that the NDP campaign central intending on doing this before it was actually done? Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Mr.

Speaker, I believe that the member may or may not have been present at the committee when these matters were, were publicly made in 2004, and it indicated that following the '99 election, amended forms, form 921, of 13 candidates filed amended statements and the financial statements contained expenses such as gas expenses,

whereas the detailed review concluded that the expenses should have been classified as donations in kind. The subsequent amendments had implications for reimbursements that had been paid to them, the New Democratic Party, and the resulting $76,036 overpayment of election expense and reimbursements have been repaid. The Auditor went on to say in committee that this has happened with every single political party, Mr. Speaker– Mr. Speaker: Order. Public Inquiry Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Justice is making my case.

You see, I asked him if he was aware of something and he goes off complete topic avoiding answering the question. Manitobans have a right to know the truth. Trying to get this Premier–it would be easier to get this Premier to resign, Mr. Speaker, than to have him call a public inquiry. This Premier refuses to call a public inquiry. It would, as I say, it would be easier to get him to resign. Mr. Speaker, the public interest, the public interest would be best served if there was a public inquiry. When the Premier, when the Premier was in opposition he had no problem calling for public inquiries.

Can he tell Manitobans why he refuses to call public inquiries when, in fact, there is justification and need? All he needs to do is to look at his seat buddy and he will see the need, Mr. Speaker. * (14:20) Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Mr. Speaker, since, since I have been in this House and in this Chamber, the only member who has ever threatened to resign if he was proved wrong on the record was the Member for Inkster who threatened and said he would resign if he was proved wrong. He was proved wrong. I think he can be– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr.

Chomiak: If he wants to talk about resignation, let him do the honourable thing that he promised both in the Chamber and in the hallway, Mr. Speaker. He said if these claims– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Chomiak: –that I'm making that I sat on for six months and didn't reveal for six months, but if these

2654 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 4, 2009 claims are found to be not true, I will resign. He said that in the Chamber, and he said that here. He ought to explain that before he starts pointing fingers at other individuals, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Lamoureux: Mr. Speaker, I never did like Goofy from the cartoons, and, and, you know, it's, it's a fairly simple and straightforward–[interjection] Mr., Mr. Speaker, you know, I, looked–I looked at the Premier (Mr. Doer) and I–ref–have one of those flashbacks.

Remember to the–in the '90s where you'd see the Premier jumping from his seat: we want a public inquiry on this; we want a public inquiry on this; it's in the public's best interest. That was the Premier back then. Now when there's a genuine need, there's a justification for a public inquiry the Premier says nothing. And that's why I say it'd be easier to get him to resign than to call a public inquiry. The reality is it's in Manitoba's best interest to have a public inquiry. What has changed, Mr. Premier? Why do you believe that public inquiries have no place in Manitoba's society today? Mr. Chomiak: Yes, Mr.

Speaker, while the member is having flashbacks, I wonder if it'll flash back to the time when he stood up in this House and said if his allegations weren't proved true, he would resign. Is that–is that part of the memory process in his flashback? And I also like to indicate to the member opposite that Elections Ma nitoba said, Mr. Speaker– Mr.

Speaker, the Elections Ma nitoba said that every single political party in this House, there is not a political party, quote election Manitoba, that hasn't refiled a financial statement that has not repaid reimbursement at one point, in some cases, more than once–I think the Liberals, but I don't know–this has not happened in the past across the board having not resulted in prosecutions in either cases. Let me repeat it again: there is not a political party in this House that hasn't refiled a financial statement.

Process that for a while and maybe flash back [inaudible] Persons with Disabilities Government Initiatives Ms. Jennifer Howard (Fort Rouge): This is Access Awareness Week this week, and I had the great opportunity this morning to tour one of the most inclusive and the newest accessible housing communities in the city at Place Bertrand, and I would like the Minister of Family Services and Housing, the minister responsible for people with disabilities, to inform the House of the new strategy taking place to ensure accessibility for all people in Manitoba. Hon.

Gord Mackintosh (M inister responsible for Persons with Disabilities): Just, Mr. Speaker, initially, I think I want to thank the MLA for Fort Rouge for her dedication and hard work to co-ordinate the development of the strategy document. Well, Mr. Speaker, today, along with the member for tr–minister for Training and Trade and the Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger) and many members of the community, were able to launch a proposed new strategy for Manitobans with disabilities. But, Mr.

Speaker, while consultations are ongoing, we wanted to ensure that there was immediate action as well, and as a down payment we've committed $30 million in, in funding to ensure more options for housing–accessible housing to enhance accessibility at 39 public buildings across Manitoba, to enhance services for Manitobans with disabilities, to enhance the inclusion policies and the work in child care, and as well, the employment services available for Manitobans with disabilities. We have to make sure this is a province for everyone. Mr. Speaker: Time for oral questions has expired. Members' statements.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Food Development Centre in Punjab Mr. Mohinder Saran (The Maples): Mr. Speaker, I rise to inform the House of the beginning of a historic new partnership between Manitoba and India. Today, the Province signed a memorandum of understanding with the State of Punjab to market Manitoba's expertise in supporting the establishment of a food development centre in Punjab to help expand India's agrifood industry. Joining us in the building for this announcement were the Honourable Sard ar Sucha Singh Langah, minister of agriculture for the State of Punjab and Mr.

Santosh Kumar Sandhu, managing director for the Punjab Agro Industries Corporation. This new partnership builds on the positive agriculture, trade and business relationships this

June 4, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2655 government has been developing with India in recent years. Alliances developed between governments and agribusiness industries have since helped to create mutually beneficial economic, educational, research and development and commercial relations. This new partnership promotes Manitoba's expertise in the agrifood industry. The Food Development Centre in Portage la Prairie is a leader in agricultural innovation.

As a specialist facility, it has developed expertise in client and facility management, food safety processes that are consistent with market demands and pilot plant procedures. The exchange of knowledge, research and technology will create profitable advantages for both Manitoba and India. The ability to foster economic growth and support commercialization of value-added agrifood processing are important activities to any country moving to expand its agrifood industry. Mr. Speaker, this memorandum of understanding signifies our willingness to act in the spirit of co-operation with India.

Our province has much to offer in all aspects of the agriculture and food development industry, and this partnership will only bring about new opportunities for both Punjab and Manitoba. Thank you. Renee Kaplan Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Mr. Speaker, I rise toda y to congratulate Renee Kaplan on being the recipient of the Lieutenant- Governor's Volunteer Se rvice Award. This award recognizes individuals throughout Manitoba for their contributions to the community through voluntary services. I have known Renee for 10 years through my contact with Oak Park High School as the MLA for Charleswood.

Renee has always been quick to offer her involvement in any projects that involve youth and the school. As founder and teacher adviser for the Community Service Committee and the Youth in Philanthropy program, Renee has been a driving force behind these active groups. She firmly believes that students can make a difference in society, and she can point to the efforts of these students. Over the past 10 years, she and her students have raised over $500,000 for different charities.

This included $33,000 for UNICEF Canada, where they have been the highest fundraiser amongst high schools in Canada, and $31,000 for World Vision. The Community Service Committee has raised money and volunteered their time for causes such as UNICEF, World Vision Canada, diabetes research, the Women's Legal Education and Action fund, the Children's Wish Foundation and the Christmas Cheer Board. This year's project is raising money for the homeless. Over the last 10 years, Renee has involved hundreds of students in service learning. Students have worked at Winnipeg Harvest, Siloam Mission and Agape.

They have also organized whole school initiatives in support of Darfur, in opposition to land mines, and in efforts to bring sports equipment, eyeglasses and fresh water to areas of the third world. They have organized blood drives at Oak Park, placing first with the highest percentage of blood donors from 65 high schools from 2002 to the present. Renee Kaplan also works with the Asper Foundation Human Rights and Holocaust Studies Program. She has participated in trips to the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, D.C., to learn about human rights issues.

Renee and two other teachers created the curriculum that is being used nationally in schools participating in the program. This education program is going to be part of the program of the Canadian Museum of Human Rights when it opens. Oak Park High School and the Charleswood community are very fortunate to have such a dynamic, passionate and committed professional teaching our youth. Her commitment to youth and to seeing them blossom as integral members of the community has made a significant impact in Charleswood.

I congratulate Renee on this tremendous honour and want to acknowledge her unwaivering dedication to our youth. Renee was also nominated for a Woman of Distinction Award this year. Her commitment to excellence in education and devotion to community service are very much appreciated by our community. She has certainly done her

part in making our world a better place by volunteering countless hours mentoring Oak Park students who will be our future leaders. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

2656 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 4, 2009 Family Choices Program Ms. Erin Selby (Southdale): Mr. Speaker, with more and more parents participating in the labour market, demand for safe and quality child care has been increasing over the years. Parents are facing a difficult task of balancing both work and family commitments, especially in the current economic environment. We are committed as a government to providing families with more choices to help them better strike that balance. On May 27th, the Minister of Family Services and Housing (Mr.

Mackintosh) and I provided an update on Family Choices, Manitoba's five-year plan for chi–early learning and child care. * (14:30) We made the announcement at the construction site of the newest facility for Rainbow Day Nursery in my constituency. Eleven point four million dollars in new funding was committed to support new child-care sites, revitalize existing child-care centres, create more child-care spaces, hire more child-care workers, enhance child safety, and develop a curriculum framework.

In 2007, we promised to create 2,500 newly funded child-care spaces ac ross Manitoba within the first two years, and I'm proud to report that since then, we've surpassed that commitment creating 2,859 newly funded spaces across the province and on our way to creating 6,500 newly funded spaces by 2013.

In my constituency of Southdale, there are a large number of young working families, and I'm happy to announce that since June 2007, the Rainbow Day Nursery in Southdale has seen a 33 percent increase in newly funded child-care spaces with 20 newly funded infant spaces, 38 newly funded preschool spaces and 127 newly funded school-age spaces. The new Rainbow Day Nursery, located at the corner of Berver Hil–Beaverhill Boulevard and Vermillion Road, is expected to be up and running this summer.

I also want to take the opportunity to thank Karen McDonald, president of Rainbow Day Nursery parent board; Diane Hale, executive director of Rainbow Day Nursery; the staff of Rainbow Day Nursery, along with all the parents who volunteered their time to make this project happen. I'm proud to be part of a government that believes in and is committed to early learning and child care and will continue to work towards creating more child-care spaces for families in Manitoba. Thank you. Souris Velocity Volleyball Team Mrs.

Leanne Rowat (Minnedosa): I would like to take this opportunity to extend my most sincere congratulations to the Souris Velocity volleyball team for an exciting and successful season. The Souris Velocity team consists of players Tanner Butler, Troy Chandler, Sosefo Gordon, Luke Hill, Sean Morrison, Cameron Rowat, Colby Suski and Brett Young. They competed in the Manitoba Volleyball Association provincial championships on April 17 and 18 in Winnipeg, bringing home a bronze medal and earning a spot at the national championships in Ottawa from April 30 to May 3.

The team experienced an exciting and challenging tournament in Ottawa, which was held at beautiful Carlton University. An astonishing 216 teams participated in the event and more than 3,000 spectators attended the locally televised and Web cast tournament. Team Velocity faced some tough competition throughout the tournament and felt intense pressure on the first day of matches. They lost the first three games in tie breakers, but by the second day, those nerves had settled and Velocity won all their games.

The final day of competition was even more intense than the first as Velocity faced their opponents in the tier 2 gold medal game. The young men played solidly but lost the final match to settle for a very respectable silver medal. Mr. Speaker, I would like to again congratulate the Velocity team on their success at both the provincial and national levels. I would also like to congratulate and thank coaches Warren Birch, Becky Young and Rhonda Young for their outstanding coaching and for being a fo rce of encouragement to these young men.

As a community and as parents, we are very proud of you and wish you all the best as you take the time to celebrate your recent accomplishments and achievements and reflect on a successful season. Well done. Youville Centre Hon. Nancy Allan (Min ister of Labour and Immigration): The Youville Centre is a community- based accessible health resource for the communities of St. Vital and St. Boniface. It is a place where individuals and families can work on their health

June 4, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2657 concerns with health professionals or with others who have similar experiences. The Youville Centre officially opened on February the 2nd, 1984 in St. Boniface. In 1998, a second set of doors–office– doors opened in St. Vital. I rise today to celebrate Youville Centre's 25th anniversary. Youville Centre was named after a pioneer, Saint Marguerite d'Youville, a widow, who founded the religious order, the Order of Sisters of Charity of Montreal, commonly known as the Grey Nuns of Montreal.

Orphaned at a young age, a student without funds, a mother of six, a bereaved parent, a deserted spouse, a debt-burdened widow, she dared to be different and learned how to overcome challenges and keep moving forward towards building a positive future. Youville Centre has continued on the tradition of determination and daring to be different. They are a community-based health organization that provides a diverse mix of services ranging from health care and wellness education to counselling and support. They encourage people to become involved in the management of their own health concerns.

The mission of the Youville Centre is to enhance the health of individuals with respect, compassion and hope, to support them in a caring and nurturing environment. The Youville Centre has long been recognized as a Manitoba centre of excellence in diabetes education and services, and recently had a $500,000 expansion which will mean even better care for Manitobans affected by this disease. Mr. Speaker, I encourage all members of the Legislature to join me in wishing Youville Centre's continued success in the community. Mr. Speaker: Grievances; orders of the day.

ORDERS OF THE DAY (Continued) GOVERNMENT BUSINESS House Business Hon. Dave Chomiak (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, could you please canvass the House to see if there's unanimous consent to extend reporting deadline of the Special Committee on Senate Reform from June 4th, 2009, to June 11th, 2009? Mr. Speaker: Is there unanimous consent to extend the reporting deadline on the Special Committee on Senate Reform from June 4th, 2009, to June 11th, 2009? Is there, is there agreement? Some Honourable Members: Agreed. Mr. Speaker: Okay. There is agreement.

The honourable Government House Leader, on House business. Mr. Chomiak: I'd–I would like to also announce, Mr. Speaker, that the Special Committee on Senate Reform will meet at 11:30 a.m. on Monday, June 8th, 2009, to consider preparations for developing the final report of the committee. Mr. Speaker: It's been announced that the Special Committee on Senate Reform will meet at 11:30 a.m. on Monday, June 8th, 2009, to consider preparations for developing the final report of the committee. The honourable Government House Leader, on House business. Mr. Chomiak: Mr.

Speaker, could you then–could you please call for third reading the following– [interjection] By leave, Mr. Speaker, would you please call for third reading of the following bills: Bill No. 11, the highway traffic amendment act; Bill No. 13, The Medical Amendment Act; Bill No. 15, the victims' bill of rights; Bill No. 19, the mortgage dealers amendment; Bill No. 22, The Cooperatives Amendment Act. And when those are completed, I will ask for further direction, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: Is there leave to, to deal with concurrence and third reading of bill, bills in this order: 11, 13, 15, 19 and 22?

Is there agreement? Some Honourable Members: Agreed. Mr. Speaker: Okay. There is agreement. CONCURRENCE AND THIRD READINGS– AMENDED BILLS Bill 11–The Highway Traffic Amendment and Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Amendment Act Mr. Speaker: So, now I will call concurrence and third reading of Bill No. 11, The Highway Traffic Amendment and Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Amendment Act.

2658 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 4, 2009 Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Act): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger), that Bill No. 11, The Highway Traffic Amendment act and Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Amendment Act; Loi modifiant le Code de la route à la

Loi sur la Société d'assurance publique du Manitoba, as amended and reported from the Standing Committee on Human Resources, be concurred in and be now read for a third time and passed. Mr. Speaker: It's been moved by the honourable Attorney General, seconded by the honourable Minister of– An Honourable Member: Greg. Greg. Mr.

Speaker: It's been moved by the honourable Attorney General, seconded by the honourable Minister of Finance, that Bill No. 11, The Highway Traffic Amendment and Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Amen–Amendment Act, as amended and reported from the Standing Committee on Human Resources, be concurred in and be now read for a third time and passed. Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Mr. Speaker, it's a pleasure to rise today, this afternoon, in the House to put some more words on the record regarding Bill 11, The Highway Traffic Amendment and Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Amendment Act.

At second reading, I had the opportunity to speak to a few of the various issues in the act and some of them bear some elaboration and some of them bear some repeating. The act, as we know, comes as a result of changes that happened to the federal Criminal Code in Ottawa and new provisions that were included under the federal Criminal Code for acts such as street racing and other forms of, of malfeasance under the Criminal Code, including changes to how drinking and driving is, is registered under the code.

And so that resulted in a need to change Manitoba's legislation and the right to seize vehicles. * (14:40) It's important to remember that the decision and the act to have vehicles seized was something brought forward by the former Conservative government when it looked at ways to curb drinking and driving and other acts in society that all of us would agree need to be restricted. There was, at the time, some individuals who suggested that it might be an unconstitutional move because the Province was, in a sense, impeding upon what was historically considered to be federal responsibility in a criminal act.

But, through foresight and good determination, the legislation was found to be just and to be upheld because the Province, in fact, had the right to act administratively on issues related to property. And so the seizing of vehicles, even in relation to a Criminal Code act, was seen to be constitutional in Canada because it impacted on a, on a property issue and impacted on driver's licences which are under the provincial jurisdiction under our Constitution. And so that is no small feat, I would say, Mr.

Speaker, because it takes some degree of foresight to know that this is something that not only could impact and improve the behaviour of individuals but that will withstand the time and the test of a court challenge, which it has ultimately.

In fact, that same principle was applied to the safer communities act which was introduced or its predecessor introduced in 1999 under the former Minister of Justice under the Conservative government, and it has proved to be a very successful act, one that was adopted by the NDP after they got elected after 1999 with a few changes administratively in terms of how orders get submitted under the community safety act. And we're pleased, in fact, that the act was kept and promoted by the NDP. They sometimes forget, of course, where it originated from, that it was a Conservative government.

I'm sure it's a minor oversight by the government, that they forget that that groundbreaking piece of legislation came forward under the now a member of Parliament for the constituency of Provencher and the former Filmon government. Ms. Marilyn Brick, Acting Speaker, in the Chair But, regardless of who brought forward the legislation, we're pleased that it's been kept and been expanded by the NDP government, in fact, replicated and modelled by provinces right across this country.

But the same principle applied in the safer communities act, 'cause they were looking at ways to stop and prohibit criminal acts that would normally be cap–capsulated under the Criminal Code but using provincial jurisdiction through acting upon property and through administrative law.

June 4, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2659 And so that was certainly something that many, I remember, professors and maybe even some New Democrats, at the time, said probably wouldn't stand up in a court challenge and shouldn't be supported. But, in fact, it did stand the test of time and now it's been universally adopted and supported by all members of this House and, certainly, other provinces, and I don't hear a lot of complaints among academia or others regarding the legislation. It seems to have served a good purpose.

So good work on behalf of those who were involved with that legislation, and this is similar in the sense that we're looking at having driver's licence and vehicles removed or suspended as a result of certain criminal acts under the Criminal Code, an extension of what was done under the former Conservative government. The changes in Ottawa to the Criminal Code are important for a number of different reasons.

We've seen recently the inclusion or the commitment to an inclusion of auto theft as a separate Criminal Code offence, which is important, I think, supported, I would say, on behalf of a ll members of this House. I know that the New Democrats and Conservatives, and I believe even the Liberal Party, also called for that change to the Criminal Code, and so that's an important addition.

Also the provisions on street racing, which had gotten some attention here in Manitoba, and particularly in Ontario and in British Columbia, also are important in ensuring that there's a separate offence for street racing, those who would use our public roads as a forum of racing vehicles at incredible speeds and dangerous speeds, Mr. Speaker. And so I commend the federal Conservative government for being very progressive and very bold, in many ways, in changing the legislation of the Criminal Code.

In fact, I don't know that there's been a government in history, of Canadian history, that has been so aggressive in such a short period of time on laws that govern our country and that are trying to restrict criminals. And, certainly, all provinces and all provincial governments could look to Ottawa as a lesson and to have that same sense of boldness and that same sense of determination to try to create–rid the province and the country of criminals. I note that the Minister of Justice (Mr.

Chomiak) hasn't been as proactive and hasn't wanted to take the same steps as the federal government in terms of their proactiveness on crime. In fact, he often uses the shield to say that he's not able to do many of the things that the public would demand, that he puts it all over to Ottawa and says that he's powerless.

In fact, Manitobans know that he collects a ministerial salary for a reason, and that's because as a Minister of Justice he does have certain powers that are entrusted to him and that are given to his office, and that's been proven by the bold action of the former Conservative government provincially and the legislation that has stood the test of time and served this province well for more than a decade now.

Also included in the ch anges under this act are the restriction of benefits to individuals who are convicted of some of these specific actions, whether it's street racing or others, for the benefits under Manitoba Public Insurance. I think that all members of this Legislature, and I hope that all members of the public would agree that, when an individual is convicted of

an act like street racing and has injured himself or herself in that act, that they shouldn't be entitled to benefits under Manitoba Public Insurance because they themselves put themselves into a position to be injured, and that they shouldn't be compensated and in some ways enriched through that criminal action, Mr. Speaker. I think that that's a principle of fairness in a way that that shouldn't happen. There are many in society who struggle to make ends meet day to day who, through no fault of their own, find themselves in difficult circumstances. So, when an individual is convicted of

an act like street racing and is injured through that act, I think it would be fair to say that most Manitobans would say that there should not be benefits that flow as a result of that criminal action. I would say, Mr. Speaker, that the government could take this a little further. We remember in the past campaign that there was a discussion about benefits and since then benefits going to auto thieves, those who steal vehicles in the city of Winnipeg and the province of Manitoba and then get into an accident and are somehow injured.

While there are some reductions under the legislation in terms of the benefits that they receive, they are still entitled to more benefits than an average Manitoban–an average law-abiding citizen–would receive who is injured in some other fashion. So I think that many Manitobans and probably most Manitobans would find that to be unfair and unjust and in some ways a disincentive for individuals to stop committing crime. To say to an individual, if you steal a car and then you get into an accident, we're going to provide

2660 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 4, 2009 you with some benefits that an ordinary law-abiding Manitoban wouldn't receive in a circumstance where they were injured in some other way would be considered to be unfair. So I would encourage the government to look at that issue again. I know that, for whatever reason, in this matter, the Minister of Justice (Mr.

Chomiak) has stood behind the car thieves and said, no, we're going to ensure that they continue to have those benefits and not have the full reduction of benefits under Manitoba Public Insurance, and I say that it's difficult to reconcile the words that he sometimes has with car thieves to the actions that are taken by continuing to allow those benefits to flow.

So, while this legislation in and of itself stands as something that's worthy of supporting, it's not without improvement and it's not that there couldn't be other things that could happen within the legislation to make it stronger and to make it more effective legislation in the future in terms of trying to reduce crime and other sorts of actions in the province of Manitoba.

And I know that throughout the provinces, there are many innovative pieces of legislation that are coming forward from ministers of Justice across Canada on how to fight a variety of different sorts of crimes, and I would encourage the Minister of Justice (Mr. Chomiak) to look at those innovative measures and how to reduce crime, even Criminal Code offences, through provincial action.

And I think if he did that, and it takes a degree of energy and a degree of boldness to do those sorts of things, Madam Acting Speaker, I think that the Minister of Justice would find that he would be applauded by Manitobans who want to see a tougher approach, a tougher stance on crime in Manitoba. * (14:50) You don't have to go very far anywheres in the province to hear the stories of victims, many, many victims of crime and, and not always just the hope– high-profile crimes.

And I know that individuals who become victims and, and families of, of victims and get sort of thrust into the media because of the high- profile nature of their crimes, they do it very reluctantly, and they don't do it of their own volition, but they do come forward often because they want to make a change to the system, Madam Acting Speaker. They want to ensure that there is a, a, a change made to the system in terms of how victims are treated.

And I would say that it's not just those who are, are, are high-profile victims, but also many thousands of Manitobans who, unfortunately, on a daily basis, are victimized through property crime and a variety of other things that are sometimes written off as nuisance crimes.

And I, I use that term reluctantly because I don't think that we should ever classify something as a nuisance crime because in some way every criminal action impacts an individual and, and in some cases, very deeply, even though you might think that it's a, it's a smaller kind of crime on the hierarchy of crimes that we have in Canada and Manitoba. And we always need to be remindful of the fact that individuals who are victimized in any way often carry the scars of that victimization into the future and into other aspects of their life.

And so when we look at all pieces of legislation, when it comes to the criminal justice system, it has to be through the lens, not just simply of the criminal, but also of the victim, of the individual who has been left to either deal with a, a significant emotional impact or they're a family member of somebody who's been victimized. We always must be re– remindful.

That's the other side of the equation when it comes to the justice syst em and, unfortunately, there's a perception and probably a reality, Madam Acting Speaker, that the scales of justice tip to the, to the side of, of criminals and those who are committing crimes in our society, and very unfortunate, because not only do individuals who are victims feel victimized again by the system, but generally, across, across the province and across Canada, people lose faith in the justice system when they don't think that there's equality, when they don't think there's an equal measure within the system that that they're the, they're the forgotten voice in the court system.

And so, you know, there are more things that could be done with this piece of legislation or with others, and I would encourage the Minister of Justice (Mr. Chomiak) in his role to ensure that he's always mindful of the fact that there are victims out there who are crying for changes to the system, and sometimes it takes bold action. I'm not going to suggest for a minute that it's easy to do. I'm not going to suggest for a minute that it's something that can, that can be taken as simply or without any sort of concern or repercussion of the actions.

It does take a bold person to make these steps, 'cause you will sometimes get criticism from those who think that you're overstepping your bounds. I understand that. I recognize that. But I think, in the fullness of time,

June 4, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2661 you'll find that, generally, Manitobans and Canadians will stand behind you and support you for the ideas that you bring forward, if you're doing it in a meaningful and measured way trying to change the system of justice to benefit those who have been impacted by crime.

So, in conclusion, in conclusion, Madam Acting Speaker, I know that there are other colleagues of mine in the House who want to speak to this particular bill, but I, I can indicate that we'll be supporting the legislation, but also, that we'll be looking for further changes to the laws in Manitoba to benefit victims and to ensure that there are less victims in Manitoba beca use crime is reduced and not increasing as it currently is in our province. Thank you very much. Mr.

Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Deputy Speaker, it's with pleasure th at I, I rise today to put on the record a few words in regards to Bill 8, is a bill that I think that merits a great deal of, of support. You know, we–we're all very much aware of the harms that are caused through drinking and driving and the importance of forfeiture of driver's licence as an issue. I know that over the, over the years, you know, there has been a, a great deal of change in, in at–attitudes towards the whole issue of crime, drinking and, and driving.

You know, there's one incident that it wasn't that long ago where, in fact, you had a, a driver that was involved in an accident, at least that I was aware of, and there was alcohol that was involved and the question mark as to well, why does this particular individual derive the type of benefits or should this particular individual derive the type of benefits of someone that was not past 0.05 or 0.08.

And I think that what we've–what we have seen as, as time has progressed, legislation, both at the provincial level and at the national level, that takes a look at responsible behaviour, and this is one of those pieces of legislation that I think tries to bring some, some justification in areas in which the public is, is looking for politicians to take action on. And I think that in that sense that Bill 11 is a very important, important bill. The ability to automatically suspend a driver's licence is very important.

I can tell you first-hand, in terms of surveying that I've done within my own constituency–and I believe that if you ask Manitobans as a whole, you will find that there is a great deal of support behind the idea of being able to suspend a person's driver's licence in certain situations. And, if I reflect on some of the comments that I've had, some of those would include, first and foremost, drinking and driving.

People are greatly offended by drinking and driving, and it's so encouraging when you attend–and, as we all will attend graduations over the next month, you'll find that virtually every high school has some form of a safe grad program, and the feeling of young people today and attitudes towards drinking and driving is considerably different than it was when I was graduating high school, Madam Deputy Speaker. An Honourable Member: When was that? Mr. Lamoureux: Oh, it'd be a few years ago anyway, '89 I think it was. No, a little while ago. Anyway the mindset, the mindset has changed.

You know, I can, I can recall attitudes of, of people when they were–and, you know, I go back into the '70s where you would have people drinking in the car with, with children and had no problems in terms of being able to do that. I believe at one point there was even a–if you got caught drinking and driving, I think it was called a 60, and it was called a 60 because it happened to be a $60 fine and that was it. Well, we have seen the value, in terms of, of changing that– [interjection] and, and today–the member–we, we'll shy away from the age factor at this point.

Let me kind of withdraw some of those comments, Ma–Madam Deputy Speaker, and get more focussed here. The point is, is that you will find that there is, there is a great deal of public support behind suspending a driver's licence in certain situations. That is one of those situations. Another situation I believe that is there, that is very real, is street raci ng.

There's been so many tragedies that have occurred on Winnipeg streets, and, in fact, in, in rural communities, as a direct result of, of street racing, and that is an area in which there's very little tolerance in terms of public acceptance when you have that sort of behaviour taking place. And, again, one raises the need to be able to look and consider issues such as having immediate suspension of driver's licences.

You know, if I was to provide additional comment, which is a little bit off topic here, but I think it's an important one because it's something that is, is raised with me on, on numerous occasions, and that is, you know, what we have seen in the last number of years is a dramatic increase in the number

2662 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 4, 2009 of, of vehicles that have been stolen, and I know, when I say dramatic number, you know, I think we've kind of went–spiked up to 2003, 2004, where we had about 14,000 vehicles being stolen in the city of Winnipeg, and now I think we're back down to just under 10,000, which is still fairly high. * (15:00) But the point is, is that a vast, and I shouldn't say a vast majority, but a good number of those vehicles that are being stolen are being stolen by, by children, individuals that are well under the age of, of 16.

And, you know, I'm not too sure in terms of exactly how best to address the issue of driver's licence once they hit 16, given that they're stealing cars before they're, they're 16, but there does need to be a consequence there. But for those individuals that are stealing cars that are ab–over the age of 16, I think that the government will find that there is a great deal of public support again at looking at the idea of suspension of driver's licence to emphasize the consequence of some of thes e serious crimes that are in fact taking place.

So when, when we look at Bill 11 and we, we have it before us today and anticipate that it is going to be likely passing this shortly after I sit down, I think that Manitobans as a whole will benefit by the passage of this bill and I suspect that the government will find that it does have all-party support for it. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. The Acting Speaker (Ms. Brick): Is the House ready for the question? Some Honourable Members: Question. The Acting Speaker (Ms.

Brick): The question before the House is concurrence and third reading of Bill No. 11, The Highway Traffic Amendment and Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Amendment Act. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Some Honourable Members: Agreed. The Acting Speaker (Ms. Brick): Agreed and so ordered. I declare the motion carried. CONCURRENCE AND THIRD READINGS Bill 13–The Medical Amendment Act Hon.

Dave Chomiak (Government House Leader): Madam Deputy Chairperson, I move, seconded by the Minister of Justice, pardon me, of Finance, that Bill No. 13, The Medical Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la Loi médicale, reported from the Standing Committee on Human Resources, be concurred in and be now read for a third time and passed. The Acting Speaker (Ms. Brick): It has been moved by the honourable Minister of Justice and seconded by the honourable Minister of Finance (Mr.

Selinger) that Bill No. 13, The Medical Amendment Act, reported from the Standing Committee on Human Resources, be concurred in and be now read for a third time and passed. Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Madam Deputy Speaker, I am pleased to rise today to speak to third reading of Bill 13, The Medical Amendment Act, and like to acknowledge that I think this is good legislation for Manitoba. I think the issue of having physician assistants working in Manitoba is a, a good thing. I think it's innovative.

We've certainly seen physician assistants being part of the system in the military in Canada and the United States for many, many years and it does make good sense to incorporate them now into our health-care system but it does become somewhat interesting to look at why we need physician assistants. And one of the things we're seeing in today's health-care system is certainly a shortage of doctors and in order to make up for that shortage of doctors there are some innovations that now are being forced upon the system and one of them is physician assistants.

Now whether or not we were in the predicament we were in, you know, this just forces the situation but certainly physician assistants could of easily been part of the system for, for sometime and would have been, you know, a significant component of it but it's interesting to see that right now with the shortage, in desperation, I guess, we, we are, are seeing the need for looking for alternatives to the shortage of doctors that we have. We know that under this government 1,471 doctors have left Manitoba. That has created a revolving door of doctors in this province and it destabilizes your health-care system.

You can't have that many doctors. It's a 60 percent turnover of doctors since the NDP came to power. That's a significant turnover of doctors and we're not doing as good as other provinces in recruiting and retaining doctors.

June 4, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2663 If we look at the statistics across Canada that will certainly be acknowledged and, and when we have a revolving door like that with that many doctors coming and going you do not have a very stable health-care system. You do not have the continuity in health care that patients want and deserve. And when you don't have continuity in health care you end up in situations where you don't have the quality of care that is needed in the system either and so patients are at the losing end of that.

And, you know, the minister likes to stand in the House a lot and talk about the number of doctors that are coming into Manitoba, but the reason they're coming into Manitoba is because we cannot keep and retain the doctors that we have, and so we're constantly in this vici ous cycle of doctors and coming and going. And it creates a very destabilizing effect on the health-care system. And I would think it's probably worse in smaller communities, too, where they are going to be affected much more dramatically than the, you know, larger centres that, you know, have other doctors that they can turn to.

But the smaller communities are certainly affected by this. So, whether or not physician assistants will be able to be utilized in an innovative way in rural Manitoba is certainly going to be an interesting question to be asking in the future. And this, you know, if there was one place that we could probably use physician assistants today, it's certainly in rural Manitoba where we have now, I believe, with the closure of the Melita ER upon us, 18 rural EM–18 rural ERs closed.

And that is going to, you know, continue to have a profound effect on rural Manitoba and on the health care people receive in rural Manitoba. And research shows us that outcomes of health care for patients in rural Ma nitoba is far poorer than it is for patients in larger urban centres that have much more easy access to doctors. In rural Manitoba, the access isn't as easy. In fact, sometimes the access is not there at all, and patients are burdened with poor access to doctors, poor access to ERs, poor access to preventative care, poor access to health prevention.

And when you add all of that together, what you end up is poorer outcomes for patients in recovering and poorer outcomes for patients in prevention of illness. So I hope that physician assistants can be part of the solution to what we're seeing because we've seen a very, very poor job done by the NDP government, in their time in power, of retaining doctors. And even the former Minister of Health Tim Sale has publicly acknowledged that and indicated that this government has done a poor job of retaining doctors. And we certainly haven't been able to keep a lot of our med students.

Only recently has there been a turnaround in that effort, and for a long time we were only keeping one-third of our med students when they graduated. And those aren't healthy statistics for a province, and obviously a lot more has to be done to address that.

We also have seen a very, very poor percentage of rural students being accepted into medical college, which also has then a profound effect on the number of doctors we see in rural Manitoba because there is a higher tendency of those rural students, if they were to come from rural Manitoba and take their training here, we would see, in all likelihood, more of them going back to, to rural Manitoba, setting up practices there, wanting to be in their communities and with their families, and we might not have seen such a significant shortage of doctors in rural Manitoba.

You know, another aspect of doctors in rural Manitoba is the number of doctors that are actually international medical grads that we are forced to rely on in rural Manitoba. And what is happening right now, and it's very, very concerning, is the speed with which these doctors come into Manitoba and then leave. There seems to be an inability by this government to keep a lot of them in Manitoba. We're seeing that right now in the Burntwood Regional Health Authority and, and the Minister of Health (Ms.

Oswald) actually totally ignored the question that was asked of her the other day about how many doctors were actually leaving the Burntwood Regional Health Authority, and we have been told that it is in the vicinity of 50 percent in the last 18 months have left the Burntwood Regional Health Authority.

There are a lot of costs being occurred–incurred up there because of having to bring doctors in either on locums or to have doctors that are working, you know, in, in different ways in order to try to keep that system afloat. * (15:10) And, and, you know, while the Minister of Health stood in the House and, and said that it's very important that we have transparency and accountability within our, our RHAs, we saw an absolute lack of it by her in this House the other day

2664 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 4, 2009 when she wouldn't even an swer the ques tions about how many doctors were actually in the Burntwood Regional Health Authority and how many have left. And, so, when you have the Minister of Health (Ms. Oswald), you know, being so unable to provide answers here–unwilling to provide answers here–and a total lack of transparen cy and accountability from her, I, I can see why the RHAs behave in the same manner and don't want to provide information, either, because the Minister of Health has set the bar very low on that.

And if she's going to set the bar so low and treat health-care questions as a, as a little, petty political questions and, and play a little, petty political game in the House all the time, we are never going to see the kind of, of improvements we need in health care because the, th e minister has really set the bar low in terms of transparency and accountability. Burntwood Regional Health Authority has been only one example recently of the Minister of Health choosing to play some political games in this House and, and it's such a, a, a petty way to address these challenges in health care.

We have 10 freedom of information documents from 2005 that show that the two access centres in Winnipeg have trouble retaining doctors, and yet the Minister of Health, gleefully and very arrogantly, the other day just took one day in time and said, well, we don't have any doctor shortages here at the moment, while ignoring the, the track record of the last four years, which has been a significant doctor shortage. Doctors have not wanted to work in the access centres.

But instead of, of, you know, coming clean with her answers in the House, instead of acknowledging the challenges there, instead of saying, yes, you know, we've heard from the doctors–and they have heard from the doctors; doctors are on record having left there, doctors are on record as being critical of how expensive these access centres have become and the doctors have been critical of how overmanaged they are there as doctors and they have not had great experiences in these access centres.

So, when we asked about it–and we can provide 10 FIPPA documents that actually attest to the fact there has been a constant doctor shortage, except now for perhaps one day in time. And the minister chooses, instead of being responsible and answering the questions about that, instead she stands in the House and makes political hay out of it. We had a young boy we just heard about this week. And, again, maybe this is where physician assistants can come in and help, again, in a shortage of specialists; I don't know.

I don't know if we can see physician assistants be ing able to come in and plug some of the holes with the specialist shortage that we see. But we know that in the WRHA alone, we have 80 specialist shortages right now, and it's been vacillating between 80 and 100 specialist shortages in Winnipeg over the last many, many years, so I suppose as physician assistants, there could be an opportunity here in any of these areas, if they choose to subspecialize as a physician assistant, to come in and help out.

One area that would be good would be around the area of neurology because we've got two child neurologists, position vacancies, and we're also short three adult neurologists. And that area, for sure, has seen a, a pretty consistent shortage for many, many years and whether it's a troubled area, I don't know, but for some reason, again, neurology can't seem to maintain a full complement of its specialists. So, could physician assistants fill the gap? Maybe.

Maybe then this little four-year-old boy–or sorry, this 15-year-old boy wouldn't have had to have been told that he would have to wait four years to see a pediatric neurologist. That is absolutely unconscionable in our health -care system; that a, a child who cannot walk, sit, stand, who goes blind when he stands up, who cannot have a blood pressure taken on, on him when he stands up because the professionals can't get a blood pressure on him, to have raging headaches when he stands up, missing school, now, for three and a half months, because there is a shortage of neurologists.

His mother, if it wasn't for her begging, begging for health care, this little boy would still not be treated. And when I asked the question in the House yesterday, it was only then where we saw action taken. Otherwise, for three and a half months, the mom and the pediatrician have been calling all over Canada looking for a neurologist to see this child, and if we hadn't asked the question here, what would have happened to this little boy? The mom was petrified that he was going to die. His symptoms are severe. There's obviously something very wrong, and he couldn't get in to be seen.

Now, physician assistants helping in this area would make a huge impact, I'm sure. So might nurse practitioners–somebody that could step in and make a difference in better access to care. Physician assistants can certainly play a role in addressing a lot of the challenges that are in the system, and I hope that the government certainly rolls this out in a

June 4, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2665 timely manner. I know that there are clinical assistants out there and there might be some confusion amongst the public as to what is the difference between clinical assistants and physician assistants, but indeed, they are two different entities and they both have different training programs, and there is a role certainly for both groups to practise in our health-care system. Certainly, physician assistants, knowing that we're short almost 1,500 doctors, there's obviously a very significant role for them to play.

Clinical assistants can work alongside them as well. In working with doctors, I've certainly worked alongside clinical assistants as they have worked in hospitals with cardiac surgeons, and I am sure that there is going to be a role for physician assistants to play in that same area, and it is good to see that Manitoba is going to be one of the first provinces in Canada to roll out this position. I know other provinces are certainly looking at what is going to be happening in Manitoba.

I know that the University of Manitoba has set up a training program, and the training program will put forth a number of physician assistants that are going to be able to help to address some of these challenges in our health-care system. And we know that we could use them. I'm sure physician assistants could have a role also in our ERs, and that would be one really good place for physician assistants to star t in addressing some of those challenges because we've seen a significant shortage of ER doctors in Winnipeg particularly, but we're seeing them through rural Manitoba as well.

So this might be a very good place for physician assistants to begin to actively work within the health-care system, and that is to take up the slack for the shortage of ER doctors that are not able to provide the care because we don't have enough of them in our health-care system. So, certainly, clinical assistants might have an opportunity working in the ERs, nurse practitioners, and certainly physician assistants.

I know that the NDP government in trying to address the crisis a number of years ago with a shortage of ER doctors was quite prepared to look at bringing in clinical assistants to help solve the problem in the Grace Hospital ER. I know that the–I know that there was a doct ors' meeting at the Grace Hospital, and I know that one doctor–and Madam Deputy Speaker, it was discussed at a doctors' meeting at Grace Hospital that they were afraid this government was going to close the hospital.

And had the community, had the community not rallied around this, then we would have seen perhaps something happen, but the whole West End of Winnipeg rallied around and, you know, because of the community rallying around, they saved the Grace Hospital ER and kept it open. It wasn't what this government did. There were conversations that were going on by the WRHA, and, and those conversations included a discussion about closing that ER. And, Madam Deputy Speaker, it was interesting, then, that the NDP started to scramble, but they waited until a crisis hit the ERs.

They waited like they do with all other health-care problems in Manitoba. * (15:20) The Acting Speaker (Ms. Brick): Order. I just want to remind all members that we're currently doing third reading of Bill No. 13, The Medical Amendment Act, and I just want to make sure that the information being put on record relates to the Bill No. 13. Thank you. The honourable Member for Charleswood. Mrs. Driedger: Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

I can assure you it absolutely does, because having physician assistants is going to become part of the solution to the doctor shortage, and by outlining the doctor shortage, we can actually demonstrate where there is an opportunity for physician assistants to fill the void. And when we look at where those shortages are, whether it's in specialists, rural medicine or, you know, primary care within the city, whether it's access centres, those all demonstrate shortages of doctors, and that is where physician assistants can actually come in because they can do 80, something like 80 percent of what doctors do.

They can help to fill the void. And, so, by demonstrating how this government has failed in, in retaining doctors in Manitoba, we can see where this legislation is absolutely critical because they haven't been able to resolve the doctor shortage. They can't retain the doctors. We're seeing patients fall through the cracks because of it, and so this legislation which will put forward physician assistants, we will certainly be able to see this, this new group of professionals be able to fill some of the gap. And I'm just pointing out right now that with the Grace Hospital ER, perhaps if we had had physician

2666 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 4, 2009 assistants a whole lot sooner that could have been plugged in before all of the ERs went into crisis, before this government let it go into crisis–because they didn't try to come up with innovative solutions. They allowed it to reach a crisis, as they did after Dorothy Madden died wai ting for care in an ER, after we saw patients die waiting for heart surgery in this province. There were some blatant examples of this prob–of this government not doing a good job of this situation.

So, Madam Deputy Speaker, certainly with physician assistants, yes, there is an opportunity. I wish they'd have brought them in sooner. I wish they'd have done a better job of retaining doctors, because then we wouldn't be in the crunch we are in now with many, many other situations in this province. Maybe physician assistants can help to keep some of the rural ERs open. Here we are now, closing another rural ER. Maybe the physician assistant could be working in the ER if they were to take this course and subspecialize some of these physician assistants.

I know, with nurse practitioners, they do subspecialize, and I hope that there is an opportunity, you know, for that to happen within the physician assistant program as well, because these–you know, the criteria for people going into this program is certainly very good, and these people will come out very, very qualified as a profession, and they can be filling many, many gaps. The hands-on ability for them to come and work in, for instance, primary health care might be something that is, is particularly important, too, that nurse practitioners, we know, also have a good opportunity there.

We heard in question period today that one in three children in Manitoba now are obese and, you know, the more health professionals we have in the system, the better we will be able to address some of these challenges, particularly in managing chronic illness. So, when we look at wh at physician assistants can do, they can write pres criptions. They can assist in surgeries. Maybe, then, we wouldn't see so many heart surgeries bumped because the doctor might have an assistant that can help him, because, right now, despite the promise by the government that when they consolidated the cardiac surgery program at St.

Boniface Hospital, there would be no more bumping, well, bumping is what led to cardiac patient deaths. And what is still happening now despite their commitment to stop the bumping? Patients are still being bumped. In fact, the numbers are quite significant in terms of, in terms of how many patients are being bumped. They can also order and analyze diagnostic tests. Now, that's also a good thing because, again, perhaps we can see diagnostics te sts read more quickly because, again, shortages are leading to a backlog in that area. They can write treatment orders.

Well, that is good, too, because, obviously, when we've got 150,000 Manitobans without a doctor, then this will definitely help the system because, according to CIHI, and those are the latest numbers, we've got 150,000 people in Manitoba that do not have a doctor, and we wonder why our ERs are jammed. We wonder why our walk-in clinics have hours and hours of waits where we see patients lining up at 8:30 in the morning at a walk-in clinic not far from my house in order to get their name on a list to be seen at a walk-in clinic. We've got people desperate for doctors.

So I certainly hope that what this government will do is train enough

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Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	39-3-53b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	39th 3rd hansardpdf 53b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
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