British Columbia Hansard — 20140403am Hansard v10n1

20140403am-Hansard-v10n1

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Second Session, 40th Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY (HANSARD) THE HONOURABLE LINDA REID, SPEAKER ISSN 0709- 1281 (Print) ISSN 1499-2175 (Online) Th ursday, April 3, 2014 Morning Sitting Volume 10, Number 1

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Judith Guichon, OBC Second Session, 40th Parliament SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Linda Reid EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council .............................................................................................................. Hon. Christy Clark Deputy Premier and Minister of Natural Gas Development and Minister Responsible for Housing ......................Hon.

Rich Coleman Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation ......................................................................................................... Hon. John Rustad Minister of Advanced Education ............................................................................................................................................ Hon. Amrik Virk Minister of Agriculture ............................................................................................................................................................... Hon.

Pat Pimm Minister of Children and Family Development ....................................................................................................... Hon. Stephanie Cadieux Minister of Community, Sport and Cultural Development ........................................................................................... Hon. Coralee Oakes Minister of Education ..................................................................................................................................................... Hon.

Peter Fassbender Minister of Energy and Mines and Minister Responsible for Core Review .....................................................................Hon. Bill Bennett Minister of Environment ..........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Mary Polak Minister of Finance .................................................................................................................................................. Hon.

Michael de Jong, QC Minister of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations......................................................................................Hon. Steve Th omson Minister of Health ............................................................................................................................................................... Hon. Dr. Terry Lake Minister of International Trade and Minister Responsible for Asia Pacifi c Strategy and Multiculturalism ..................Hon.

Teresa Wat Minister of Jobs, Tourism and Skills Training and Minister Responsible for Labour ...................................................Hon. Shirley Bond Minister of State for Tourism and Small Business ....................................................................................................Hon. Naomi Y amamoto Minister of Justice ...............................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Suzanne Anton Minister of Social Development and Social Innovation..................................................................................................... Hon. Don McRae Minister of Technology, Innovation and Citizens' Services ................................................................................... Hon. Andrew Wilkinson Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure ......................................................................................................................Hon.

Todd Stone LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Offi cial Opposition ......................................................................................................................................................Adrian Dix Deputy Speaker .............................................................................................................................................................................Douglas Horne Assistant Deputy Speaker ...............................................................................................................................................................

Raj Chouhan Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole ....................................................................................................................................... Marc Dalton Clerk of the Legislative Assembly ................................................................................................................................................... Craig James Deputy Clerk and Clerk of Committees .................................................................................................................................

Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sessional Law Clerk ...................................................................................................................................................Roderick MacArthur, QC Sergeant-at-Arms ................................................................................................................................................................................. Gary Lenz

ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Anton, Hon. Suzanne (BC Liberal) .............................. Vancouver-Fraserview Ashton, Dan (BC Liberal).....................................................................Penticton Austin, Robin (NDP) ................................................................................ Skeena Bains, Harry (NDP) ....................................................................Surrey-Newton Barnett, Donna (BC Liberal) ............................................... Cariboo-Chilcotin Bennett, Hon.

Bill (BC Liberal) ...................................................Kootenay East Bernier, Mike (BC Liberal) ................................................... Peace River South Bing, Dr. Doug (BC Liberal) ................................ Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Bond, Hon. Shirley (BC Liberal) ........................... Prince George–Valemount Cadieux, Hon. Stephanie (BC Liberal) ................................Surrey-Cloverdale Chandra Herbert, Spencer (NDP) .................................Vancouver–West End Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ...........................................................

Burnaby-Edmonds Clark, Hon. Christy (BC Liberal) ........................................ Westside-Kelowna Coleman, Hon. Rich (BC Liberal) .......................... Fort Langley–Aldergrove Conroy, Katrine (NDP) .............................................................. Kootenay West Corrigan, Kathy (NDP) ..................................................... Burnaby–Deer Lake Dalton, Marc (BC Liberal) ............................................. Maple Ridge–Mission Darcy, Judy (NDP) ..................................................................New Westminster de Jong, Hon.

Michael, QC (BC Liberal) .............................. Abbotsford West Dix, Adrian (NDP) ............................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Donaldson, Doug (NDP) ......................................................................... Stikine Eby, David (NDP) ..........................................................Vancouver–Point Grey Elmore, Mable (NDP) ................................................... Vancouver-Kensington Farnworth, Mike (NDP) ............................................................ Port Coquitlam Fassbender, Hon.

Peter (BC Liberal) ................................... Surrey-Fleetwood Fleming, Rob (NDP) .......................................................... Victoria–Swan Lake Foster, Eric (BC Liberal) .......................................................Vernon-Monashee Fraser, Scott (NDP) ............................................................Alberni–Pacifi c Rim Gibson, Simon (BC Liberal) .............................................

Abbotsford-Mission Hamilton, Scott (BC Liberal) ...........................................................Delta North Hammell, Sue (NDP) .................................................... Surrey–Green Timbers Heyman, George (NDP) .................................................... Vancouver-Fairview Hogg, Gordon (BC Liberal) ............................................... Surrey–White Rock Holman, Gary (NDP) .......................................Saanich North and the Islands Horgan, John (NDP) .......................................................................

Juan de Fuca Horne, Douglas (BC Liberal) ..............................Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Hunt, Marvin (BC Liberal) ....................................................Surrey-Panorama Huntington, Vicki (Ind.) ..................................................................Delta South James, Carole (NDP) .........................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Karagianis, Maurine (NDP) ........................................Esquimalt–Royal Roads Krog, Leonard Eugene (NDP) .............................................................

Nanaimo Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP) ........................... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Kyllo, Greg (BC Liberal) ........................................................................ Shuswap Lake, Hon. Dr.

Terry (BC Liberal) ....................Kamloops–North Th ompson Larson, Linda (BC Liberal) .........................................Boundary-Similkameen Lee, Richard T. (BC Liberal) ......................................................Burnaby North Letnick, Norm (BC Liberal) ........................................Kelowna–Lake Country Macdonald, Norm (NDP) ....................................Columbia River–Revelstoke McRae, Hon. Don (BC Liberal) ..................................................

Comox Valley Martin, John (BC Liberal) ..................................................................Chilliwack Morris, Mike (BC Liberal) ..................................... Prince George–Mackenzie Mungall, Michelle (NDP) ..........................................................Nelson-Creston Oakes, Hon. Coralee (BC Liberal) .............................................Cariboo North Pimm, Hon. Pat (BC Liberal) ...............................................Peace River North Plecas, Darryl (BC Liberal) ....................................................Abbotsford South Polak, Hon.

Mary (BC Liberal) .............................................................. Langley Popham, Lana (NDP) ...................................................................Saanich South Ralston, Bruce (NDP) ................................................................ Surrey-Whalley Reid, Hon. Linda (BC Liberal) ..................................................Richmond East Reimer, Linda (BC Liberal) ........................................

Port Moody–Coquitlam Rice, Jennifer (NDP) ........................................................................North Coast Robinson, Selina (NDP) .............................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Routley, Bill (NDP) .................................................................. Cowichan Valley Routley, Doug (NDP) ............................................Nanaimo–North Cowichan Rustad, Hon. John (BC Liberal) ................................................

Nechako Lakes Shin, Jane Jae Kyung (NDP) ...............................................Burnaby-Lougheed Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ................................... Powell River–Sunshine Coast Simpson, Shane (NDP) ..................................................... Vancouver-Hastings Stilwell, Michelle (BC Liberal) ........................................ Parksville-Qualicum Stilwell, Dr. Moira (BC Liberal) ........................................ Vancouver-Langara Stone, Hon. Todd (BC Liberal) .........................

Kamloops–South Th ompson Sturdy, Jordan (BC Liberal) ..................................West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Sullivan, Sam (BC Liberal) ...........................................Vancouver–False Creek Sultan, Ralph (BC Liberal) ..................................... West Vancouver–Capilano Tegart, Jackie (BC Liberal) ............................................................Fraser-Nicola Th omson, Hon. Steve (BC Liberal) .......................................Kelowna-Mission Th ornthwaite, Jane (BC Liberal) ..........................

North Vancouver–Seymour Th roness, Laurie (BC Liberal).................................................Chilliwack-Hope Trevena, Claire (NDP) .................................................................... North Island Virk, Hon. Amrik (BC Liberal) ............................................. Surrey-Tynehead Wat, Hon. Teresa (BC Liberal) .............................................. Richmond Centre Weaver, Dr. Andrew (Ind.) .......................................... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Wilkinson, Hon. Andrew (BC Liberal) ........................ Vancouver-Quilchena Y amamoto, Hon.

Naomi (BC Liberal) ................ North Vancouver–Lonsdale Y ap, John (BC Liberal) ......................................................Richmond-Steveston LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Mission ......................................................................Simon Gibson Abbotsford South ............................................................................Darryl Plecas Abbotsford West ...................................................... Hon. Michael de Jong, QC Alberni–Pacifi c Rim ..........................................................................

Scott Fraser Boundary-Similkameen ................................................................ Linda Larson Burnaby–Deer Lake ................................................................... Kathy Corrigan Burnaby-Edmonds ......................................................................... Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Lougheed .............................................................Jane Jae Kyung Shin Burnaby North .............................................................................. Richard T.

Lee Cariboo-Chilcotin ........................................................................Donna Barnett Cariboo North .................................................................... Hon. Coralee Oakes Chilliwack ......................................................................................... John Martin Chilliwack-Hope ....................................................................... Laurie Th roness Columbia River–Revelstoke .................................................. Norm Macdonald Comox Valley...........................................................................Hon.

Don McRae Coquitlam–Burke Mountain .....................................................Douglas Horne Coquitlam-Maillardville........................................................... Selina Robinson Cowichan Valley ................................................................................

Bill Routley Delta North ..................................................................................Scott Hamilton Delta South ...............................................................................Vicki Huntington Esquimalt–Royal Roads .....................................................Maurine Karagianis Fort Langley–Aldergrove ...................................................Hon. Rich Coleman Fraser-Nicola....................................................................................

Jackie Tegart Juan de Fuca .....................................................................................John Horgan Kamloops–North Th ompson ............................................ Hon. Dr. Terry Lake Kamloops–South Th ompson ..................................................Hon. Todd Stone Kelowna–Lake Country ............................................................... Norm Letnick Kelowna-Mission .............................................................. Hon. Steve Th omson Kootenay East .......................................................................... Hon.

Bill Bennett Kootenay West ............................................................................ Katrine Conroy Langley.......................................................................................Hon. Mary Polak Maple Ridge–Mission ..................................................................... Marc Dalton Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows ........................................................ Dr. Doug Bing Nanaimo ........................................................................... Leonard Eugene Krog Nanaimo–North Cowichan .........................................................

Doug Routley Nechako Lakes ........................................................................ Hon. John Rustad Nelson-Creston ........................................................................Michelle Mungall New Westminster ............................................................................... Judy Darcy North Coast......................................................................................Jennifer Rice North Island .................................................................................. Claire Trevena North Vancouver–Lonsdale ........................................Hon.

Naomi Y amamoto North Vancouver–Seymour ................................................. Jane Th ornthwaite Oak Bay–Gordon Head ...................................................... Dr. Andrew Weaver Parksville-Qualicum .................................................................Michelle Stilwell Peace River North ...................................................................... Hon. Pat Pimm Peace River South ............................................................................Mike Bernier Penticton............................................................................................

Dan Ashton Port Coquitlam ..........................................................................Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Coquitlam ................................................................Linda Reimer Powell River–Sunshine Coast ................................................. Nicholas Simons Prince George–Mackenzie ............................................................. Mike Morris Prince George–Valemount ................................................... Hon. Shirley Bond Richmond Centre ......................................................................Hon.

Teresa Wat Richmond East ..........................................................................Hon. Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston ..............................................................................John Y ap Saanich North and the Islands .................................................... Gary Holman Saanich South ................................................................................

Lana Popham Shuswap ................................................................................................Greg Kyllo Skeena .............................................................................................. Robin Austin Stikine ....................................................................................... Doug Donaldson Surrey-Cloverdale ....................................................... Hon. Stephanie Cadieux Surrey-Fleetwood ........................................................... Hon.

Peter Fassbender Surrey–Green Timbers .................................................................. Sue Hammell Surrey-Newton ................................................................................. Harry Bains Surrey-Panorama ........................................................................... Marvin Hunt Surrey-Tynehead ......................................................................Hon. Amrik Virk Surrey-Whalley..............................................................................

Bruce Ralston Surrey–White Rock ....................................................................... Gordon Hogg Vancouver-Fairview ..................................................................George Heyman Vancouver–False Creek ................................................................... Sam Sullivan Vancouver-Fraserview ......................................................Hon.

Suzanne Anton Vancouver-Hastings ....................................................................Shane Simpson Vancouver-Kensington .................................................................Mable Elmore Vancouver-Kingsway..........................................................................Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara .................................................................Dr. Moira Stilwell Vancouver–Mount Pleasant .........................................

Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Vancouver–Point Grey .........................................................................David Eby Vancouver-Quilchena ................................................ Hon. Andrew Wilkinson Vancouver–West End ...............................................

Spencer Chandra Herbert Vernon-Monashee ...............................................................................Eric Foster Victoria–Beacon Hill .......................................................................Carole James Victoria–Swan Lake.........................................................................Rob Fleming West Vancouver–Capilano ............................................................. Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Sea to Sky ..........................................................Jordan Sturdy Westside-Kelowna ................................................................

Hon. Christy Clark Party Standings: BC Liberal 49; New Democratic 34; Independent 2

CONTENTS Th ursday, April 3, 2014 Morning Sitting Page Routine Business Introductions by Members ..................................................................................................................................................... 2755 Tributes ..................................................................................................................................................................................... 2755 Stephen Ronald McClurg M.

Elmore Statements (Standing Order 25B) ......................................................................................................................................... 2756 Heart health and Red Dress Fashion Show M. Mungall Automated external defi brillators N. Letnick Saltspring Island community bus G. Holman Autism support dogs for children with autism S. Hamilton B.C. Hockey League and Coquitlam Express hockey club S. Robinson Fossil deposits in Tumbler Ridge M.

Bernier Oral Questions ......................................................................................................................................................................... 2758 Investigation into executive compensation at Kwantlen University D. Eby Hon. A. Virk Call for independent investigation into executive compensation at Kwantlen University A. Dix Hon. A. Virk Hon. C. Clark Locally grown food in Kootenay area and comments by Core Review Minister M. Mungall Hon. B. Bennett Consultation on changes to agricultural land reserve M. Mungall Hon. B.

Bennett Government action on climate change and protection of farmland and food supply V . Huntington Hon. M. Polak Freedom-of-information requests involving Burnaby Hospital K. Corrigan Hon. A. Wilkinson "No records" responses to freedom-of-information requests G. Heyman Hon. A. Wilkinson Tabling Documents ................................................................................................................................................................. 2762 Correspondence with respect to compensation and employment contracts at British Columbia universities

Orders of the Day Committee of the Whole House ............................................................................................................................................ 2763 Bill 15 — Liquor Control and Licensing Amendment Act, 2014 (continued) S. Simpson Hon. S. Anton Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room Committee of Supply .............................................................................................................................................................. 2769 Estimates: Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure (continued) J. Rice Hon. T. Stone S. Fraser K. Conroy N. Macdonald R. Fleming B. Ralston C. Trevena

THURSDAY , APRIL 3, 2014 Th e House met at 10:04 a.m. [Madame Speaker in the chair.] Routine Business Prayers. [1005] Introductions by Members M. Mungall: Th ere is a young woman in the gallery who spent her formative years in the Kootenays. She is now studying political science at the University of Victoria and may one day fi nd herself sitting in one of our seats, so we should beware. May the House please make Elizabeth Dill very wel- come. S. Hamilton: I'd like to take this opportunity to wel- come two people to the gallery today.

First, we have Jaime Arnup — Jaime is a mobility instructor and autism guide- dog trainer for B.C. Guide Dogs; and our puppy-raiser supervisor here in Victoria, Laura Mahoney. With them they have Telus, an autism support dog in training, who is sponsored by the very generous people at Telus Corp. Would the House please make them feel welcome. A. Weaver: I would like to introduce two people to- day. The first is the interim leader of the B.C. Green Party, Adam Olsen, who is in the galleries today.

He is accompanied by Colleen Spier, a Saanich-based lawyer and CEO of the Island Métis Family and Community Services Society. Th is is Colleen's fi rst time coming to the Legislature, so I ask that everyone please give her a warm welcome. Michelle Stilwell: I have several introductions today. It's a busy day in the House. First, I would like to welcome guests to the House from the Heart and Stroke Foundation, whose mission is to prevent disease, save lives and promote recovery. With us today visiting the House is fellow Olympian silver medallist Dr.

Doug Clement, Diego Marchese, Adrienne Baker, Mark Colson, Erika Callowhill. I'd like to thank all of them for joining us here today on behalf of everyone. Please make them feel welcome. I'd also like to acknowledge two constituents of mine. Switzy Dewitt is here with his daughter from Qualicum Beach. Please make them feel welcome. It's a rare occasion that we get to celebrate monumen- tal events here in the House, so today I'd like to recognize that the Minister of Energy and Mines is celebrating an- other monumental event, as it is his birthday. L.

Krog: Let me be the fi rst to off er congratulations on a birthday over there. It's always good the government gets some good news for a change in the chamber. Joining us in the gallery today is Avery Valerio. Now, she is a dedicated young woman. She sits on my executive, and she's here, believe it or not, because she wanted to celebrate her 17th birthday by attending the Legislature. Would the House please make her welcome and wish her happy birthday. M. Morris: We have the privilege today of having the chair of the regional district for Fraser–Fort George in the House today, Mr. Art Kaehn.

Would the House please make him welcome. C. James: I have two visitors at the Legislature today. Th e fi rst is Sheenagh Morrison. She's a provincial lead- er in the self-advocacy movement and also a leader of the diversability campaign here in Victoria. Her accom- plishments and her workload put all of us in this House to shame. Th is year she won a Community Living B.C. WOW! Award. She's a recently published author. She swims with Special Olympics. She works at Th rift y Foods and the Beacon Hill Children's Farm.

And in her spare time, the little bit that she has, she loves spending time with her family and friends. With Sheenagh is her friend Jessica Humphrey. Jessica lives in Victoria with her husband and two children, ages ten and 12. Her eldest child has a developmental dis- ability, and Jessica works as the self-advocate adviser for Community Living B.C. Would the House please make Sheenagh and Jessica very welcome. [1010] K.

Conroy: I, too, would like to welcome the folks from the Heart and Stroke Foundation, not only to thank them for the lovely heart-friendly breakfast we had this morning but also for all of the work they do in the prov- ince, especially about bringing to light the information about AEDs and the need for them in every facility in the province.

I also want to remind members that they have para- medics downstairs in the Hemlock Room who are there to check your blood pressure, which might be really good for some of you aft er question period, but also to give us some heart-healthy tips on maintaining our lifestyle that we do here. Tributes STEPHEN RONALD McCLURG M. Elmore: It's with a heavy heart that I rise to remem- ber a friend of mine, someone I knew, Stephen Ronald McClurg. He passed away recently, on March 28, and I 2755

British Columbia Debates2756 Thursday, April 3, 2014 just want to extend condolences and sympathies to his family, his wife, Sharon. I fi rst met him, actually, work- ing on NDP campaigns. He was a candidate, provincially — and federally, in the riding of New West–Coquitlam for the 2004 federal election — and he was also involved on the municipal scene as a founding director of Voice New West and a candidate for council in 2008. I'm just thinking of him and his family, and also, on behalf of the Legislature, I'd like to extend prayers and thoughts with the family.

Statements (Standing Order 25B) HEART HEALTH AND RED DRESS FASHION SHOW M. Mungall: Breathe deep, reduce stress, sleep well, eat healthy. So no trans fats, low cholesterol, low sodium, and yes, pass on the french fries. Don't smoke, drink in mod- eration, get regular checkups from your doctor or nurse practitioner, get out and get some exercise, and do dance. What do all of these have in common? No matter what your age, they all help keep your heart healthy. Heart dis- ease is a leading cause of death in Canada, and it aff ects more women than men.

Th irty-two percent more women die of stroke than men do, and women are 16 percent more likely than men to die aft er a heart attack. As our guests in the gallery know, the Heart and Stroke Foundation has been leading Canadians in learning more about heart health, and they have come up with some very fun ways to remind us that every day we need to take care of our heart. My personal favourite is the Red Dress Fashion Show. As the symbol for the Heart Truth campaign, the red dress takes centre runway every year during Canadian Fashion Week in Toronto.

There, Canadian design- ers create original red-dress designs in celebration of women and heart health, because the red dress represents women's courage and passion and their power for change as they share the truth with others and raise awareness about the importance of heart health. Th e rhythm of our hearts is the rhythm of our lives. By keeping it healthy, the beat goes on. AUTOMATED EXTERNAL DEFIBRILLATORS N. Letnick: Last week I discussed in this House a way to avoid heart attacks, and that is by not getting angry too oft en.

Well, today it's AED Awareness Day in British Columbia, and I'd like to talk about what happens if you do get a heart attack. AED awareness is one of the examples of the many ef- fective advocacy programs spearheaded by the Heart and Stroke Foundation. AED stands for automated external defi brillator. It is a portable device that can deliver an electric shock to help someone suff ering cardiac arrest. Th e Heart and Stroke Foundation is building a net- work of AEDs all across Canada. Y ou have probably seen them at rec centres, arenas and workplaces around the province.

Th e goal is, eventually, to make sure that all Canadians have knowledge and confi dence to save some- one's life by performing CPR and using an AED. Sudden cardiac arrest kills more than 2,000 British Columbians every year and can strike without warn- ing. When someone goes into cardiac arrest, their heart stops pumping blood to their body, and without oxygen and nutrients from the blood, the person's brain and or- gans will be seriously damaged within just three min- utes. Aft er 12 minutes the person is unlikely to survive. But if you know CPR and have access to an AED, you can make a real diff erence.

Th e survival rate of someone suff ering from cardiac arrest improves by 75 percent if they are given CPR and an AED is able to get their heart pumping again. [1015] Th e Heart and Stroke Foundation, in partnership with our government, is donating 450 AEDs to communities all across British Columbia. Th at is something, I'm sure, that we can all agree is great news. SALTSPRING ISLAND COMMUNITY BUS G. Holman: I want to tell the House today about a remarkable capital regional district and B.C.

Transit service on Saltspring: the Salt Spring Transportation Commission and its community bus, which is celebrat- ing a major milestone this week. It's likely seldom that such local services are raised in this House, but the Salt Spring Transportation Commission and its transit system are quite unique in British Columbia. As with all new regional district functions, the Salt Spring Transportation Commission required voter approval when it started in 2008. Th e fi rst- ever public transit system on Saltspring was established under B.C.

Transit's municipal program, which deliv- ers a number of such transit systems throughout British Columbia, with local and B.C. Transit funding on a 50- 50 basis annually. Saltspring service was predicated on a feasibility study estimating about 17,000 rider trips were necessary to support a viable service. Aft er only six years Saltspring's ridership now exceeds 100,000 trips per year, about six times the initial projections, and at a cost to local taxpay- ers of about $2 per month per household. According to B.C.

Transit, Saltspring's community bus has the high- est transit use of any community of its size in British Columbia. In fact, Saltspring has ridership levels com- parable with communities several times its population. Th e enthusiastic public response of Saltspringers to their community bus has allowed several service expan- sions with no additional funding from local taxpayers

British Columbia DebatesThursday, April 3, 2014 2757 or users, another rarity in the transit world of British Columbia. Th e Salt Spring Transportation Commission and its lit- tle bus that could is an inspiring success, and B.C. Transit is currently examining the feasibility of similar services on other southern Gulf Islands. Congratulations to all involved. AUTISM SUPPORT DOGS FOR CHILDREN WITH AUTISM S. Hamilton: As we all know, yesterday was Autism Awareness Day.

On the heels of a very moving and compelling statement by the member for Parksville- Qualicum yesterday, I'd like to also take the chance to recognize the people with autism and the families, vol- unteers and organizations that help those people aff ect- ed by autism. I would like to bring to the attention of the House a Delta-based society that does fi ne work on behalf of children with autism here in British Columbia. Autism Support Dogs, a sister charity of B.C. Guide Dog Services, provides professionally trained dogs to children with moderate to severe autism.

Although every child with autism is unique, many exhibit common behaviours that lead to safety con- cerns and social isolation. For parents and other family members, this can result in highly stressful daily life. An autism support dog can provide a child the ability to participate in education and social and leisure activities. Th e goal of the charity is to improve the quality of life for children with autism and their families. Th ey rely en- tirely on donations so that they can provide these services and these dogs free of charge.

It takes up to two years and costs the charity upwards of $35,000 to train and gradu- ate each autism support dog. As I speak in the House, the organization is completing the training of their most recent autism support dog team right here in Victoria. I urge every member of this House to log on to autismsupportdogs.org and take a moment to read the compelling stories about how these wonderful animals have improved the lives of children and their families.

It's a most valuable service, as one in 68 chil- dren in Canada will be diagnosed with autism spec- trum disorder, and a charity that my family and I have been involved with for many years now. I know the members of this House wish this valuable B.C. organ- ization all the success for the future. B.C. HOCKEY LEAGUE AND COQUITLAM EXPRESS HOCKEY CLUB S. Robinson: Th e B.C. Hockey League brings some of the fi nest hockey to our communities all around the province. Th is hockey league strives to be recognized as the best Junior A hockey league in North America.

Playing Junior A hockey can lead to many diff erent places, to an NCAA or CIS scholarship, to major junior hockey or to the NHL.

In Coquitlam we have our beloved Junior A Coquitlam Express, who recently won their division and are in round three of the BCHL playoff s, a six-game round- robin format between two other division champions, the Victoria Grizzlies and the Vernon Vipers. [1020] While my competitive spirit is rooting for the Coquitlam Express, and we all get excited as we root for our home teams, we need to remember that the British Columbia Hockey League and its 16 member teams pride themselves on creating a positive environment for young athletes to develop as hockey players and as people.

With a focus on education and creating opportunities for post-secondary scholarship, the BCHL has more than just a young person's sporting future at heart during their time in the league. Th e B.C. Hockey League invites these young players to get involved in their community. So rather than brag about how our Coquitlam team does on the ice, I'd like to brag about who they are off the ice. With the leadership of Darcy Rota, a much-loved Canuck alum and current owner of the Coquitlam Express, there's certainly lots of involvement in the community.

Elementary schools enjoy a visit from the Coquitlam Express players, who read to the primary grades and play fl oor hockey with the intermediate stu- dents. Th ey also off er literacy incentives for school read- ing programs and a pen pal opportunity for 20 lucky local classrooms. The Coquitlam Express hockey club also supports many local organizations, including the Raise-a-Reader program and the annual Coquitlam Terry Fox Run. Last season the Express raised over $10,000 for charities through their game night events and facilitated the gen- eration of an additional $7,000 for minor local sports.

However, my personal favourite charitable act by the Express was when I, as a local celebrity, off ered up my superb peewee-level hockey skills to get on the ice and with the team as Coquitlam inaugurated its new ice fa- cilities a few years ago. Madame Speaker, they let me win. FOSSIL DEPOSITS IN TUMBLER RIDGE M. Bernier: Today I'm speaking about an amazing but, unfortunately, not very well-known discovery that we have right here in British Columbia.

In fact, we have our very own Jurassic Park, where 120 million years ago Tumbler Ridge, in my riding, which is on the east side of the Rocky Mountains, used to be home of the best beachfront property in North America. Because of that, it contains sedimentary rock exposures from the Precambrian to the Cretaceous ages, as well as giving us huge fossil deposits featuring Mississippian in- vertebrates and Triassic fi sh and marine reptiles, as well

British Columbia Debates2758 Thursday, April 3, 2014 as Cretaceous dinosaur trackways and bones, which can actually be found right on the surface. In fact, one trackway we have was discovered by two young boys that happened to be just walking down the river — Mark Turner, when he was 11 years old, and Daniel Helm, at eight years old. Th ese paleontological discoveries are of national and of international import- ance. In fact, one of the most recent discoveries is of tyrannosaurid footprints and trackways, the only ones known in the entire world.

Th is could give the region and the province immense tourism opportunities, be- cause whether you're young or young at heart, curiosity gets the best of all of us. And frankly, it's just cool to see. None of this would be developing, though, if it were not for the hard work and passion of local doctor Charles Helm and paleontologists Rich McCrea and Lisa Buckley. Th e beauty of this area of B.C., as well as the opportun- ity to roam with the dinosaurs, should make a visit to Tumbler Ridge a priority for everybody. Oral Questions INVESTIGATION INTO EXECUTIVE COMPENSATION AT KW ANTLEN UNIVERSITY D.

Eby: We've obtained a copy of the employment con- tract for the president of Kwantlen University. Th ere are two signatures on this contract from board members — one from the chair, Gord Schoberg, the other from the Minister of Advanced Education. In this contract Kwantlen promised to pay their new president just $5 under the $225,000 salary cap. It also says very clearly that "there are no collateral contracts or agreements" and that this contract is "the complete agree- ment" — in other words, there are no side deals. But that was not the case. Th ere was a side deal.

Th e minister knew it, and he signed anyway. Will the minister acknowledge that he was aware there were not one but in fact two contracts signed with Mr. Davis on April 12, 2012 — one that was sent to the Public Sector Employers Council and re- ported as the president's total compensation and one that was never reported to the council? Hon. A. Virk: The member opposite continues to choose to present incorrect facts.

Th ere was indeed a sup- ply and services contract with the president of that uni- versity prior to the commencement of his employment. [1025] As I've said a number of times and perhaps at the risk of sounding repetitive, an investigation — if that's the word the opposition wishes to use — a review is occur- ring by the assistant deputy minister to ensure that any of the payments and the disclosure of those are consistent with the guidelines under PSEC. Th at's occurring right now. It's going to clarify once and for all the term of the pre-employment period and the employment period so that the facts are correct.

Madame Speaker: I recognize the member for Vancouver–Point Grey on a supplemental. D. Eby: The minister keeps talking about the pre- employment contract, but of course, these were signed on the exact same day. We've obtained a copy of the second contract between Mr. Davis and Kwantlen, signed by him on April 12, 2012, as well, for $50,000. Th e only deliverable Mr.

Davis had to provide to Kwantlen was to "provide such consulting services as Kwantlen may request, subject to your availability." Unlike the other contract signed that day, this contract is clearly marked confi dential — yet another violation of the Public Sector Employers Act, which prohibits contracts with school presidents from being confi dential. Will the minister acknowledge that he was well aware of this $50,000 side deal and that he told the Public Sector Employers Council, through his signature on the dotted line, that this contract did not exist? Hon. A.

Virk: Once again I risk being repetitive and repeating. Th e review by Mr. Mingay, the assistant dep- uty minister, is to determine what payments were made, what the contractual arrangements were. Did disclosure occur consistent with the PSEC requirements, and what was the total compensation received by the employees, consistent with compensation guidelines? Th at review by the assistant deputy minister is ongoing right now, and if the member has the courtesy to wait for the fi nal re- view to be done, he'll have the answers to his questions. Madame Speaker: Recognizing Vancouver–Point Grey on a supplemental. D.

Eby: We're told to wait for the investigation, but we'll be waiting a long time. Th e minister hasn't been asked one question yet in this investigation. I have another question for the minister. On the same day, April 12, 2012, two contracts signed by the new Kwantlen president: one contract for the maximum sal- ary allowed, signed by the minister and reported to the government, promising no side deal contract existed; a second contract, improperly marked confi dential, not reported to the Public Sector Employers Council, for a payment not permitted under provincial salary cap rules.

Th e minister knows that any amount paid over prov- incial compensation standards becomes a debt owing to government. Will he initiate collection action to begin recovering this $50,000 for Kwantlen students? Hon. A. Virk: Consistent with the Financial Administration Act and the Financial Information Act, Kwantlen will be fully cooperating with any of the ques-

British Columbia DebatesThursday, April 3, 2014 2759 tions that the assistant deputy minister has. I will provide any clarifying question. I encourage the member oppos- ite to provide any additional information, and to go see the ADM as well. CALL FOR INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION INTO EXECUTIVE COMPENSATION AT KW ANTLEN UNIVERSITY A. Dix: Th e minister was there. He knows the answer. Why doesn't he tell us? Why were these two contracts signed on the same day? Why were the rules clearly skirt- ed in this case? He was directly involved in it, so why doesn't he tell us about that?

And why doesn't he tell us, while he's telling us about that, about this? Once the newly hired president signed his two con- tracts — his maximum contract and then his extra con- tract for three months, $50,000 — he then proceeded to fi nish up his work at Empire State College in New Y ork. He was tidying up key projects here, attending 12 of 14 graduations and taking a short holiday to Italy, as well as driving 2,500 miles across the continent to take up his new job. Can the minister tell us, because he was directly ac- countable here, what Mr. Davis did for his $50,000? [1030] Hon. A.

Virk: Well, Madame Speaker, it clearly ap- pears that the Leader of the Opposition wishes to impugn the reputation of a considerable, notable scholar and the president of a university. Th e detail as to the work performed by that president will be made available to the public aft er the review by the assistant deputy minister. I take off ence to it. I think all university presidents and students would take off ence to the Leader of the Opposition suggesting that the president of the univer- sity was not working for his money. Madame Speaker: Th e Leader of the Opposition on a supplemental. A.

Dix: What's off ensive is a plan hatched by the min- ister to divert money from the university's student foun- dation to top up the president's salary, contrary to the rules. What's off ensive is a scheme to hide $100,000 in payments to senior staff by recording them as supplier payments. What's off ensive is signing two contracts on the same day, knowing that these both contained untrue commitments that no other deals were being done. Th ose things are off ensive to students in British Columbia. My question is to the Premier. This report by Mr. Mingay is reporting to the Minister of Finance and to the minister.

Clearly, it's an investigation of the minister. Why don't we have an independent investigation? Why doesn't she today refer this to the Auditor General? Hon. C. Clark: Our review is underway. Th e answers to the member's questions and more, I'm sure, will be available when that review is completed. I have absolute confi dence in Mr. Mingay's abilities to be able to com- plete this investigation. Th e opposition may wonder if Mr. Mingay is competent to do this. I have no such questions. I think that he will do a great job. LOCALLY GROWN FOOD IN KOOTENAY AREA AND COMMENTS BY CORE REVIEW MINISTER M.

Mungall: Th is week New Democrats put forward new ideas to advance local food in B.C. because we know that people in this province care about their local food economy. In contrast, the Minister Responsible for Core Review, the minister responsible for the Liberals' attack on the agricultural land reserve, had this to say: "I get a kick out of the 100-mile diet…except that where I live, you'd have to eat hay." Now, I know the minister has been to Creston. I've seen him there. We even have a mutual friend in the chair of the regional district.

So he should know that there is much more than hay growing within 50 miles of his house. Th ere are apples, cherries, strawberries, potatoes, carrots, lettuce, peas, pork, poultry, beef, wheat, barley, oats. Th ey all grow on prime agricultural ALR land. I've got to say this. Surely the minister has heard of Kokanee beer, because that's brewed in Creston too. To the Minister for Core Review, how could he know so little about all that the ALR is producing in his own backyard? Hon. B. Bennett: It's a pleasure to respond to the ques- tion. I thank the member for the question. She's mostly right.

I know that this may not fi t the stereotype for question period, but the hon. member is correct. Th e Creston area is not part of my riding, but it's part of the member's riding, and it does grow all of those things. [1035] In Cranbrook our climate isn't quite as friendly as it is in the Creston Valley. Our soils are not quite as good as they are in the Creston Valley, but we do manage to have a farmers market in Cranbrook. It is possible on the good agricultural land that we have — we don't have very much of it — to grow a few things. We don't grow much in the way of fruit, but you can grow some carrots.

In fact, I want it on the record that myself and my wife actually grow vegetables in our backyard, only a few feet from my door. Madame Speaker: Th e member for Nelson-Creston on a supplemental.

British Columbia Debates2760 Thursday, April 3, 2014 CONSULTATION ON CHANGES TO AGRICULTURAL LAND RESERVE M. Mungall: Well, if the minister opposite is growing carrots in his own backyard, the question is: why is he so full of hay? Th e minister did acknowledge, and I thank him for do- ing so, that agriculture is a major part of the Kootenay economy, particularly in the Creston Valley. Th e Harrises have built a dairy farm with added value through their milk bottling and cheese factory.

Nadine Harris, a second generation farmer, says that the ALR must be kept intact to ensure the viability of her family's business. Farmers like Nadine in the Creston Valley want to know: who did this minister consult when he decided to break up the ALR? Because, Madame Speaker, it wasn't them. Hon. B. Bennett: Th ere is an understanding within the agriculture industry that in what the legislation refers to as zone 2 outside of the area of the province that currently produces 85 percent of our food….

Y es, it's correct that 90 percent of the ALR is out there beyond Hope, but that huge area actually produces only 15 percent of the food in British Columbia. One would think that aft er 40 years with that kind of a result, where you have 90 percent of the land within the ALR producing 15 percent of the food, perhaps it might be time to just take a look at what's happening. Th at's what the core review committee did. In fact, the head of the Kootenay Livestock Association, who was in Victoria when we made the announcement…. Interjections. Madame Speaker: Order. Hon. B.

Bennett: I quote, from Faye Street, Kootenay Livestock Association: "We have to make some changes, and this is a huge start." I have quotations from Rhonda Driediger, the chair of the B.C. Agriculture Council. I've got a quotation from Linda Delli Santi, the executive director of the B.C. Greenhouse Growers Association. I have a quotation here from Garnet Berge, the committee chair for the B.C. Grain Producers Association — all of whom sup- port what the government is proposing to do. I'm sorry that the member from Creston is off side on this. Th is is going to help agriculture in the rural areas of the province.

GOVERNMENT ACTION ON CLIMATE CHANGE AND PROTECTION OF FARMLAND AND FOOD SUPPLY V . Huntington: With respect, the minister has done a lot more than just…. I can't remember the phrase now; I can't remember what you said. Y ou have done a lot more than just take a look in this province. I wish I had said that right. Madame Speaker, last month the international panel on climate change issued its most alarming report yet of extreme weather events, rising sea levels and increas- ing temperatures.

As the member for Oak Bay–Gordon Head and his IPCC colleagues have repeatedly warned, either we act quickly to meet the future in a strategic way, or we do nothing and lose the opportunity to prepare for drastic change. [1040] Rather than prepare for a diffi cult future, however, B.C. has a Minister of Agriculture who is quoted in Hansard as saying that climate change is a personal opinion, which is obviously true in his case, or else he would be moving heaven and earth to protect our agricultural land rather than opening it to non-farm uses. Th irty years ago British Columbia produced 73 per- cent of its food.

Today it's less than 50 percent. Half our food is shipped in from places like China and California. Governments that understand the agony of food short- ages are actively buying fertile land around the globe, in- cluding right here in British Columbia. My question is directed to any minister who can re- spond. Who on that side of the House is responsible for the food security of this province? Is any minister of this government leading a strategic study on the impacts of the rapidly warming globe on future food production in British Columbia? Hon. M.

Polak: Well, one of the very important as- pects of our climate action secretariat's work has been to look at adaptation. Not only are we the fi rst carbon- neutral government in North America, but we are also one of the fi rst jurisdictions to put forward a plan with re- spect to adaptation. Th at, of course, means looking at the security of our food systems. It means looking at making sure that our water systems are sustainable. But they don't have to take my word for it.

All you have to do is take a look at organizations like the OECD, which referred to British Columbia's approach to climate action as "textbook." Our leadership in terms of climate change has been mentioned in the Economist, the New York Times, the L.A. Times and the Guardian. For those on the other side who don't read those kinds of articles, I would refer them to a much-loved U.S. magazine on the opposition side of the House called Mother Jones , which said that B.C. can boast the Crown jewel of North American climate policy. Madame Speaker: Delta South on a supplemental. V .

Huntington: Well, unless the minister's committee recommended taking agricultural land out of the reserve,

British Columbia DebatesThursday, April 3, 2014 2761 then I'd say she has the cart before the horse. In 2006 the Ministry of Agriculture reported that if B.C. expected to become agriculturally self-reliant, we would need to immediately invest in farmland by doub- ling the amount of irrigated land and increasing the amount of viable crop-producing land — including hay — by over 300,000 hectares. But here we are going in the opposite direction, leaving future generations without enough land to ensure their food security.

We will have invested upwards of $40 billion in the infrastructure for the Pacifi c gateway — clap, clap, clap — most of it on the agricultural lands of Delta South. Most of it, in case this government doesn't really know, is on the agricultural lands in Delta South. Now Port Metro Vancouver is running TV commer- cials celebrating its role in bringing food to our tables. Let's cheer the 10,000-mile diet. China closes its markets when they have a food shortage, and others are going to do the same. In the future the importation of our food will be a luxury for only the wealthy.

Madame Speaker: Pose your question, Member. V . Huntington: Does the minister think this is sustain- able — does he or she and this government expect to rely on the port for our future needs — or will he commit to a strategic food security strategy, one that could protect our citizens and our agricultural lands into the future? Hon. M.

Polak: Well, certainly one of the most chal- lenging things in government when trying to address the issue of climate change — that includes making plans for adaptation for changes that we know will occur in spite of our good work in terms of climate action leadership — is that we have to balance all the various interests of British Columbians while we're doing that.

One of the best ex- amples actually runs through the member's own riding, and that is the South Fraser Perimeter Road. [1045] I know, as a former Minister of Transportation, that it represents one of the single largest investments in en- vironmental remediation of any project ever in the prov- ince — $100 million that not only went to improving the drainage at Burns Bog, thus making it more likely to sur- vive any kind of climate change that takes place, but also, for the fi rst time, to bringing irrigation to farmlands in south Delta that never had it before.

FREEDOM-OF-INFORMATION REQUESTS INVOLVING BURNABY HOSPITAL K. Corrigan: Th e B.C. Freedom of Information and Privacy Association recently reported that the B.C. gov- ernment is continuing to hide records from the freedom- of-information requests by calling them transitory and deleting the information they don't want to release. This organization requested a series of damning e- mails exposing a B.C. Liberal strategy to manipulate the community consultation report on Burnaby Hospital for the political benefi t of the B.C. Liberals.

Th e associa- tion was told the records had been deleted because they were "transitory." Will the minister responsible please explain why these kinds of sensitive political e-mails would be deleted? Hon. A. Wilkinson: Th e member opposite is fully aware that we have some of the most eff ective and wide- reaching freedom-of-information legislation in the coun- try. We have a statutory framework for both transitory and recordkeeping rules. It is respected throughout gov- ernment, and it is managed by professional staff in the civil service. Madame Speaker: Burnaby–Deer Lake on a supple- mental. K.

Corrigan: I mean, the Liberals all over the place are having a little trouble handling e-mails. Th is isn't the only Liberal deleted e-mail scandal. Th e Ontario Liberals are under investigation too. In fact, the Ontario Provincial Police would like to talk to the person hand- picked by this Premier to run the B.C. Liberal Party. It's no surprise that the Premier isn't in a big hurry to send her party boss back to Ontario to answer questions, but maybe that would be a good idea.

Th e Burnaby Hospital e-mails, which were independ- ently obtained by the opposition, showed the former Minister of Health using a private e-mail address in a bid to hide her actions. Aft er getting caught, she promised to bring those e-mails back into the government system, and less than a year later they have disappeared. Again to the minister, in what way were these e-mails exposing B.C. Liberal misconduct transitory? Hon. A. Wilkinson: It is indeed ironic to be lectured by the members opposite about the use of e-mail.

May I quote from the Province, from July 2000, when these members, some of whom were in cabinet at the time…. Interjections. Madame Speaker: Order. Th e members will come to order. Hon. A. Wilkinson: Th e reporter states: "I asked the Premier what his e-mail alias was, and he just chuckled at my question. 'I asked my staff yesterday. Th ey told me I have no alias. I'm very happy to hear that.' An hour later the NDP Premier's offi ce was on the phone to the press gallery. It turns out the Premier does have an alias e-mail name aft er all. It's 'loriann,' aft er an assistant in his offi ce.

Nice to see his staff is keeping him right up to speed."

British Columbia Debates2762 Thursday, April 3, 2014 It is beneath the members of the opposition to raise their own dismal record in this House yet again. [1050] "NO RECORDS" RESPONSES TO FREEDOM-OF-INFORMATION REQUESTS G. Heyman: Th e B.C. Freedom of Information and Privacy Association recently uncovered a phone call be- tween the U.S. Trade Representative and B.C. govern- ment offi cials complaining that B.C.'s privacy laws were "a trade barrier." While the U.S. government provided documentation of the call when requested, the B.C. government claimed that no records existed.

When I previously questioned the minister on FOI reporting, he said: "It doesn't matter if you write it on the bottom of your shoe; it's required to be disclosed when the FOI request comes around." To the Minister of Citizens' Services, if that's his com- mitment, how come the U.S. government can answer questions about British Columbians' private information while this government can't? Hon. A.

Wilkinson: Coming from the members op- posite, it is indeed ironic that they're supporting the ef- forts of the United States Trade Representative to create work for Americans storing our data in America, ex- posed to the FBI's and the CIA's scrutiny. We will never go down that path. Our task is to serve and protect the data of British Columbians, and we'll continue to do so. Madame Speaker: Member for Vancouver-Fairview on a supplemental. G. Heyman: The minister claims that B.C.'s govern- ment record on disclosure of information is second to none.

If that's the case, why does the freedom-of- information and protection-of-privacy commissioner claim that we're operating with a culture of oral gov- ernment? Why has the "no response" for records gone well above the benchmark? No records for intergovernmental phone calls negoti- ating British Columbians' private data. No records for e- mails where Liberal insiders were caught manipulating a report on the future of Burnaby Hospital. No records of expenses, agendas, notes and documents prepared for the Premier, senior staff and a number of ministers.

Th e reason for all of these "no records" responses is this government's deplorable policy of trashing informa- tion that British Columbians have the right to access. It's a bit rich coming from a government that this Premier claims to have as open. Perhaps we should call it transi- tory government. Madame Speaker: Pose your question. G. Heyman: To the minister, if this Liberal govern- ment is so committed to transparency, how can he justify destroying records of British Columbians before British Columbians can access them? Hon. A.

Wilkinson: Well, I have covered this issue with the member opposite before, and it's unfortunate he can't remember the details. Th is government, in pursuit of transparency and disclosure, centralized FOI process- ing in 2009 and made it easy for any inquirer — a citizen, a member of the opposition, a member of the media — to simply ask for records from all ministries. Th e number of "no records" responses rose because most ministries don't keep records from every other min- istry.

Th e Premier's offi ce does not monitor the activity of all 28,000 provincial government employees, so the unresponsive record request rose. What did we do in response? We worked with the people making the inquiries. We worked with the media. W e worked with staff to give the inquirers feedback to advise them how to avoid wild goose chases, because we believe in transparency, open government and disclosure. [End of question period.] Tabling Documents D. Eby: I seek the leave of the House to table the two contracts signed by Mr. Davis on the same day, requested by the Minister of Advanced Education. Leave granted.

Orders of the Day Hon. T. Stone: In the chamber of the assembly here we'll continue committee debate on Bill 15, intituled the Liquor Control and Licensing Amendment Act, 2014. In the Douglas Fir Committee Room we will continue with the estimates of the Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure. S. Hammell: I seek leave to make an introduction. Leave granted. [1055] Introductions by Members S. Hammell: In the gallery are a number of classes from Creekside Elementary. They have had me in to teach them about government, and now they're here to watch government in action.

Would the House please make them welcome.

British Columbia DebatesThursday, April 3, 2014 2763 Committee of the Whole House BILL 15 — LIQUOR CONTROL AND LICENSING AMENDMENT ACT, 2014 (continued) Th e House in Committee of the Whole (Section

B) on Bill 15; D. Horne in the chair. Th e committee met at 10:58 a.m. On

section 4. S. Simpson: It's good to be back, talking about Bill 15 again, the amendments to the Liquor Control and Licensing Act. Under

section 4,

section 7 is amended, and it strikes out a "store manager or a licensee who holds a prescribed class or category of licence" when ref- erencing this. Could the minister explain what the purpose for do- ing that is? Hon. S. Anton: I didn't catch the whole question, but I think the question was why "a store manager…" is be- ing crossed out on

section 7(1). Th e reason for that is that that itself is a form of delega- tion, which is rolled up into the delegation

section which we discussed earlier. [1100] S. Simpson: Does that mean that with the changes to the previous

section around delegation and around the ability, I believe it said, to delegate to employees or other persons, that now covers this off , and that means that the manager could delegate that authority? Could they dele- gate it sort of on some permanent basis so the store man- agers could act within the context of this without going back to get approval? Would they have that authority? Is that what this would do? Hon. S. Anton: Th e answer is yes. S. Simpson:

Section 7(

b) is adjusted by repealing sub- section (2) and replacing it with the following. Th is is a section, for anybody who's watching us, that deals with approvals of licensing for special occasions, primarily around charitable purpose. It reads: "(

a) the purpose of the special occasion is to raise funds for a charitable pur- pose, and (

b) the recipient of the funds and its purposes are charitable." Could the minister tell us how that changes what the current practice is? Hon. S. Anton: Th is

section is not a change. Th e for- mer (2) and (3) are being repealed and replaced with this, which covers the same ground. S. Simpson: Well, it talks about charitable purposes. Could the minister defi ne "charitable" for these purpos- es? Is that registered charities? Is it some other kind of broader

interpretation of charitable purpose? Hon. S. Anton: Th e phrase "charitable purpose" is de- fi ned in the act in

section 1. S. Simpson: Could the minister maybe just enlighten us a little bit on that, since this is where it arrives, and tell us again: is this registered charities? Or is it a broader defi nition? Who would be included and captured under that umbrella of charitable purpose, and who might be excluded? Hon. S. Anton: It's broader than a registered char- ity: "'charitable purpose' means the relief of poverty, the advancement of education, the advancement of religion and other purposes benefi cial to the community, and in- cludes the advancement of the following: (

a) recreation; (

b) sports or athletics; (

c) aid to the disabled and handi- capped; (

d) culture; (

e) youth or senior citizens." S. Simpson: If we go down under

section 4 again, 4(d), it adds a paragraph related to "the occasion in relation to which the special occasion licence was issued could pose a threat to public safety." Could the minister explain how…? Is that a change from the current practice or the current regulation, and how is this diff erent from what the current practice or regulation is? [1105] Hon. S. Anton: Th is gives the general manager the power to cancel a licence actually in advance of an event. It could be that an event, for some reason, came under some kind of threat.

Th ere was going to be some kind of civil disobedience or some kind of real problem around it that was going to cause a threat to public safety. Th is allows cancellation in advance of the licence. I could add that I suspect and hope it would not be used very oft en, but it's an important power for police to have. S. Simpson: Could the minister explain how she en- visions that would occur? Th is, I believe, has provided authority to law enforcement and that.

Is the expecta- tion of the minister that if the law enforcement offi cials in some given jurisdiction felt that an event was creating some risk, they would just then be able to go and cancel that in the name of the general manager? Hon. S. Anton: Th e power lies with the general man- ager or the police. I think the way this might play out is if the police were alerted as to some kind of dangerous situation around a special occasion licence, they then have the authority to cancel it.

British Columbia Debates2764 Thursday, April 3, 2014 S. Simpson: Is there any appeal process available to the applicant here over and above judicial review, which, as we know, is somewhat narrow, but seems to be the ap- peal process largely engaged in the act? Is there any ap- peal process over and above that? Hon. S. Anton: In a short time frame there's probably not a great deal of opportunity to change it. If there's a longer time frame….

It's not so much that an appeal is needed but that the sponsoring organization could work with the general manager and establish, to the general manager's satisfaction, that there would be safety on the site. S. Simpson: I assume, though, that if there was a case where the applicants were clearly of a diff erent view about any risk, then that might be the concern of the general manager — that in fact, they may want some kind of process of appeal. Just to be clear again, to the minister: is there any appeal process available to people who don't agree with that ruling other than judicial review? Hon. S.

Anton: Th e form of appeal which is actually spelled out in the way that the member is suggesting is indeed judicial review, but these things can be settled in a more informal way, and oft en are, in the appropriate circumstances. S. Simpson: We'll talk about this more, but as the minister knows, judicial reviews don't tend to overturn things. Th ey send things back and tell the people involved that they should talk about it again and reconsider. [1110] Th ey don't overturn decisions, and they don't provide solutions.

Th ey send things back and say: "Look at it again." Th ere's nothing that would stop the general man- ager from taking exactly the same position again. So a ju- dicial review, unlike tribunals, in many, many situations doesn't provide the same kind of appeal process. I'll take it from the minister that there is no appeal process avail- able to people in this situation. Moving to the next question, still under

section 4, which is around 7(5). Th e current language has been repealed, and new language has been put in place. Th e current language, I believe, says that the general manager "must" provide information around licences to the chief constable in the jurisdiction or authority and is obliged to provide that information. Th is language doesn't oblige the general manager to send anything to anybody. It says that they "may send" it or require somebody to whom a licence is issued under this

section to send it to anybody that the general man- ager deems appropriate to get it. I certainly don't have any question about if they feel that there's some need to broaden the scope past the chief constables in a given jurisdiction. Th at makes some sense. I guess, though, that if I look at the

section we just talked about, where we talked about the chief constable or law enforcement in an area being able to make a de- cision that a permit wouldn't go forward because they had concern for public safety, why is this

section not go- ing to oblige the general manager? In fact, it's going to change the language to not oblige the general manager to send that licence information to the chief constable in any given authority. How do we have assurances that they'll get it? Hon. S. Anton: Th ese licences may be issued for quite major events and very minor events, and the police don't always want to get all of that paperwork. Th is puts discre- tion on the general manager to decide when the police need to be notifi ed or not.

Th e wedding the member wants to have in his back- yard for his daughter — maybe he doesn't need to give that information to the police. For a big event, maybe they do. I think it's to allow that kind of discretion. S. Simpson: Y ou never know about that wedding. I think, though, that the reality is…. Th e current lan- guage says it must be provided.

Th en I would assume it should become the discretion of the chief constable and of the police force to decide whether this is a matter that they're going to want to pay any attention to or whether they're going to fi le that and not worry about it unless something untoward happens. But why should that be their call? Th at's what the

section said to me before — that it was their call, essentially, to decide whether to act on that or not. Now it's the general manager's call. What is the logic for saying the general manager is a better judge of a local public safety matter than the local authorities, in terms of what's going to occur? [1115] Hon. S. Anton: Th e way this works in practice is that the general manager in all the communities works with the local police detachment. Diff erent police want diff er- ent levels of things. Some want all the information; some don't.

Th ey work together to determine which informa- tion they need to get and will get. S. Simpson: Chair, I think that at this point I'm going to let you pass a couple of sections here. Sections 4 to 9 inclusive approved. On

section 10. S. Simpson:

Section 10 deals with questions around liquor storage and issues around what a licensee can do, what reasonable measures they can take around improv- ing their operation by being able to move product around.

British Columbia DebatesThursday, April 3, 2014 2765 But could the minister maybe explain a little bit about how this

section changes the current rules and what the thinking of the government was for doing this? Hon. S. Anton: Th ere are three sections which have been taken out. One which used to allow the general manager to make requirements as to the location of an establishment is now gone. Th e second is around marine facilities, which is obsolete. And the third is something which is no longer in use. What has been added is the two (

m) and (

n) pieces, which allow a licensee to permit off -site storage. Th is was something, repeated to the parliamentary secretary again and again during his consultation, which was very frus- trating to licensees — that they had to have all their prod- uct right at that location. Th ey can now store it off site. S. Simpson: Maybe, because this section…. I think I understand where it's going, and I think it makes sense to do this. But just for clarity's sake, what are the limits?

Maybe this is refl ected in (n), which says: "require a li- censee to take reasonable measures to ensure that the operation of the establishment does not disturb persons in the vicinity of the establishment." What was the thinking of the minister on what kinds of activities we are concerned about that have to be rea- sonable, that might cause that kind of concern? What was the minister's thinking and the draft ers' thinking when they incorporated that particular clause? [1120] Hon. S. Anton: Subsection (

n) is simply a relocation of an existing provision. It used to be in

section 20, and it's now going into this section, which is a more appro- priate place for it. S. Simpson: Would this allow, for example, an owner of a pub or a facility or maybe one of the breweries…? We have lots of great new craft breweries appearing across the province. I know I have a number of them in my constituency, and I visit them. Some of them are grow- ing very quickly because of the success of the craft beer industry. It's really growing, and I think that's fabulous. It's a great thing, and I'm very supportive of that.

Many of them now have facilities that are starting to get stretched as they increase demand and put in new equipment. Space that they might have thought was stor- age space for them all of a sudden becomes production space, because they're not quite in the place to move and expand that quickly. Could the minister tell me what kinds of things…? Would they be able to store all their product now in an- other place? Or would a pub that may have limited stor- age be able to store its kegs in another place and then bring them in as they need them? Is that what this does? Hon. S.

Anton: Th ey can store off site if they make a change to the actual size of the pub in terms of seats and capacity. Th ey may have some other regulatory things to do. I think that's what the member is asking. I think the big change here, which was very widely requested, as I said, is that they can now store at another location.

Section 10 approved. On

section 11. S. Simpson:

Section 11 deals primarily with

section 13 of the act, and training is a key piece of this. Sections (3) to (5) have been repealed, and they've been substituted with sections (3) and (4). Could the minister tell us what those changes do in material terms? Hon. S. Anton: Y es, this is a change. Again, this came out of the liquor policy review. Th e people who came to help us out on the health and safety side did strongly sug- gest, and we have agreed, that anyone serving or selling liquor should be trained. Th ere's a recertifi cation language in here. It is likely there will be recertifi cation required from time to time.

Th at is to be determined by regulation, which has not been established yet. S. Simpson: Th e training that we all know about is the Serving It Right training for people who are serving. Could the minister tell us what other training programs might be envisioned here, either existing ones or ones that the minister would like to see put in place? [1125] Hon. S. Anton: The member is correct. It is the Serving It Right program, which many people are fam- iliar with. Th ere will be provision in the regulations for a slightly less expensive version of Serving It Right for special occasion licensees.

It is the program that we use at the moment. S. Simpson: To be clear, the expectation of the minis- ter is that essentially that's the program that this is talk- ing about — I appreciate this — with kind of a Serving It Right–lite, for lack of a better term, for people who are doing a private event or something, that wedding in the backyard. Other than that — which would have the Serving It Right–lite, we'll call it, for lack of a better term — is that what's envisioned in terms of training require- ments to meet the obligation of this clause? Hon. S. Anton: Th at's correct. S.

Simpson: I don't know this, so it's a bit of an inquiry about something that I'm not aware of. It talks about re- certifi cation here in the clause. Are there recertifi cation

British Columbia Debates2766 Thursday, April 3, 2014 requirements around Serving It Right currently? Are people who have Serving It Right required every couple of years or something to fi ll out a form or take a test, or whatever? Hon. S. Anton: Th ere is no requirement for recertifi - cation at the moment. S. Simpson: I appreciate the minister said that that piece isn't fully fl eshed out yet. Maybe the minister could tell us what the thinking is around putting recertifi ca- tion in place now and how that is envisioned to work.

Particularly, I'm thinking about current employees of establishments who have been certifi ed now. What's the expectation about current employees having to go back? Is it every couple years? What is the thinking here? Hon. S. Anton: Th ere are two issues raised. One is whether or not there would be grandparenting of existing Serving It Right holders. Th e other is what the terms of the recertifi cation would be. Neither of those sets of policy have been developed yet. S. Simpson: Th ose presumably will be done through regulation.

Are they able to be done through regulation, or will we be seeing that next year, if this more substan- tive rewrite of the act is to take place? Hon. S. Anton: Th ose things can both be addressed through regulation. When this piece passes, which I hope it does, the regulations will allow both of those things to be done.

Section 11 approved. On

section 12. S. Simpson:

Section 12. This starts to head into a whole variety of sections that seem to be a signifi cant part of this legislation, which is some review and change to the authority of the general manager to be able to oversee operations. Th ere're a fair amount of clauses in here, and we'll be going through a number of those around use of licence by transferees, actions against licensees. Th is is a pretty substantive piece of this legislation. We'll get to the detail of those as we walk through those pieces. I have a bit broader question that covers

section 12 — in this case, 17.1 — but other sections to come as we move forward. Could the minister talk a little bit about her view of the current enforcement capacity of the gen- eral manager and the ability to deal with licensees, the ability to take action when it's warranted and to move forward? [1130] What is the current situation that the minister has found the need to look at and amend, in some cases, in order to meet government objectives? Could the minister talk about that broadly on the enforcement? Th en we'll get some specifi c questions in the sections. Hon. S.

Anton: Th ere is a change here to make the provisions around the holder of the licence more fair. Th e member the other day asked about the timing of a transfer and how a transfer works from a vendor to a pur- chaser. Th is is what happens. Th e sale is made. Th e prem- ises is sold. Th e licence is, they might even call it in the agreement, sold. It's in fact not sold; it's transferred. Th e general manager has to approve the transferee, so there can be a gap in there while the general manager does the due diligence around the transferee. In the meantime, the transferee is running the estab- lishment.

If there is some kind of enforcement needed at the establishment, the enforcement should be against the proposed transferee rather than against the vendor. Th at's the goal of this section: to cover that intermediate period between the sale of a business, the transfer of the business to the new owner, but before the licence itself is approved by the general manager. S. Simpson: One of the things this

section seems to do as well is that it clearly gives, and rightly so, the gen- eral manager the ability to suspend a licence in some cir- cumstances for some period — order that the licence be transferred within the period specifi ed to a person who's at arm's length from the proposed transferee or cancel the licence altogether. Could the minister give us some idea of the kinds of circumstances that might warrant that kind of a decision from a transferee who's presumably getting this licence? Th ey haven't actually had much time to operate the place yet. Th ey're fi guring it out.

What might be the circum- stances to warrant that? Hon. S. Anton: I won't limit this by my example, but I will mention a couple of examples. If the transferee turns out to be a gang or have gang relationships, if they don't pass what is called the fi t-and-proper for a variety of reasons…. I don't want to try and list them here, be- cause there may be any number of them, but those are the kinds of circumstances where the transfer would not be approved by the general manager. S. Simpson: We spoke about this before in another instance.

Other than, again, a judicial review, which I know gets referenced here, is there any form of appeal process available to somebody who the general manager has deemed either not to be eligible for the licence or has cancelled it or has told them that they need to fi nd some- body else to operate it on their behalf? [1135] Hon. S. Anton: Th e process is this. When the pro-

British Columbia DebatesThursday, April 3, 2014 2767 posed transferee is vetted, if the general manager does not think the transferee is the right person, is an appro- priate person to hold the licence, the proposed trans- feree will be notifi ed of that by letter . Th ey do have the opportunity, then, for a formal hearing with the general manager's delegate, which would be like a one-to-one in a room. It's not a court hearing, but it's a more formal presentation, I think, by the proposed transferee as to why they should be accepted. If they are still turned down, their next opportunity is to judicial review. S.

Simpson: I will come back to talk about the appeal in a little bit. Just on the formal hearing. Under this, is the general manager…? If a transferee is rejected or limits are put on them based on the legislation, and they want to be heard, do they then trigger that formal hearing? Can they say, "I want to be heard," and the general man- ager is obliged to hold that hearing, or is it at the general manager's discretion as to whether that hearing occurs? Hon. S. Anton: Th e request for the hearing before the general manager or his or her delegate is always accepted.

Section 12 approved. On

section 13. S. Simpson:

Section 13 aff ects

section 18 of the act, which deals with tied houses. I know there's been a lot of work done on this. I know that the previous minister has done work on this. I know that some of the folks in my constituency who own food-primary establishments and own breweries were happy that they are able to now get some of their own beverage into their own facilities, houses. Could the minister tell us what this does to

section 18 by repealing (1.1), (1.2) and (1.3) and then making these following changes under

section (b)? Could the minis- ter tell us: what does that essentially do to tied houses? Hon. S. Anton: I just want to go back to that previ- ous answer because I am always nervous about using the word "always." [1140] Th e question was on the previous

section — the right to a hearing in front of the general manager. It is the current practice of the current general man- ager that that hearing will always be granted. It is not set out in the legislation, but the view of the branch is that to say no to that would be rather detrimental on a judi- cial review, so the invariable practice is to say yes to that kind of hearing. But as I said, it's not set out in a formal way. It's more of an informal kind of process, and it's the practice of this current general manager. S. Simpson: I thank the minister for the clarifi cation.

I appreciate that practice is one thing and that the current general manager has the practice of saying: "If somebody asks and it's a signifi cant issue, I'm going to hear them." But as the minister says, it's not a requirement of the legislation that somebody has the right to be heard in a hearing with the manager. Could the minister tell us why the decision has been made not to make that a requirement, particularly if, as the minister says, it also provides some protection or cover in relation to a potential judicial review and those questions of process that a judicial review may look at? Hon. S.

Anton: Y es, this is going back to the

section that we passed already. Th e issue is: why is it not formal- ized in the legislation? It simply has not been viewed to be necessary, because it is a matter of current practice and has been for some time. S. Simpson: I appreciate that. As much as practice is a critical part of all of the operations of government and administration, practice and requirement are two diff er- ent things. I would encourage the minister — if not now, maybe next year — to look at making this a requirement so people always have….

If they don't have a formal ap- peal option, they at least are guaranteed the right to be heard over a matter that could aff ect their livelihood. With that, I'll sit and let the minister answer on 13. Hon. S. Anton: Th e question now is on

section 13. What we have done here is take out the rather obsolete provisions that if you had a U-brew or a U-vin, you could not own a bar, for instance, or an LRS. We're taking those provisions out so that somebody who operates a U-brew or a U-vin can own other establishments. S. Simpson: Th e practice around tied houses has tend- ed to be…. For example, I think of one in my constitu- ency. I'm going to mention them, and I'll probably get a call at some point about whether they like it or not.

Th e people who own a very successful brewery now, Parallel 49 — one of the more successful craft brew- eries, growing both in stature and size — also own St. Augustine's, which is a food-primary restaurant. I think it's a restaurant. It might be liquor primary. I'm pretty sure it's food primary. Th ey have 20 or 25 taps in there, all craft beers from Canada, the United States, elsewhere. Th at's their spe- ciality — craft beers. For a period of time when they fi rst were opening Parallel 49, they didn't have the ability to actually tap their own beers. Th ey now have some ability.

Could the minister tell us: what's the thinking about limits and how this is going to work with tied houses? I think that there was some legitimate thinking about the problems that arose. I know it goes back a number of years. Sometimes there were practices where major brewers

British Columbia Debates2768 Thursday, April 3, 2014 would essentially buy the rights in a bar to monopolize all the taps in a bar through exchanges for advertising, promotion, whatever. Th ey would buy that right from bartenders, and that's a problem. So there was some protection put in place, and I think that that made good sense. [1145] What's the thinking now, though, about how the tied- house system will work, how the determination will be made that you need X amount of taps in order to have a couple with your own product but you need to sell other taps?

How does it work around how you price that so that you're not giving some advantage to your own product over other products? Just a sense of how that works as we make these changes — which I think are good changes and which I support — around tied houses, understanding the mech- anics of how that's expected to work. Hon. S. Anton: Th e tied-houses provisions…. Th ere are still regulations which apply to tied houses and, I think, the things that the member was referring to. Th ose are contained in

section 50 of the regulations. What re- moving these three subsections does is to take out the piece relating specifi cally to U-brew and U-vin owners. S. Simpson: Just so I'm clear, then. Th is has no eff ect for craft brewers or craft distillers and how they operate? Th is won't aff ect them in any way at all? Hon. S. Anton: Th e only change would be that they could now own a U-brew, if they wished.

Section 13 approved. On

section 14. S. Simpson: Th is

section deals with action against a licensee. Again, it's a pretty signifi cant

section with a number of clauses — at least ten diff erent clauses and subclauses. Could the minister maybe walk us through a little bit about what the action against a licensee does, how that is a change from current practice and why the changes have been pursued with this legislation? [1150] Hon. S. Anton: I'm going to work through

section 14 here. Much of

section 14 is part of the existing act. It's existing regulation which is now being put into the act. Th ere are one or two new things, which I will draw the member's attention to. Using the

section numbers in the act,

section 20(1) is existing. Th ere are no changes there, but there's a re- organization — same with 20(2). Th en 20(3) is new, 20(4) is a reorganization, and sub (5) is a reorganization. Th ere's a new feature in sub (6). It was the case that an employee used to be held responsible for an owners' mal- feasance, and he is no longer. Th e word "employee" has been taken out of that. So 20(7) and (8) are from the regulations, and sub (9) and sub (10) are just reorganizations. Maybe I'll just stop there, because that seems to be far enough for one set of answers. I'm also noting the time.

I don't know if the member wants to keep going on this question. S. Simpson: I would note here…. As the minister says, it's not a change, but again, under

section 20(2) it says, "If the general manager has the right under subsection (1) to take action against a licensee, the general manager may do one or more of the following, with or without a hear- ing," and then it lists a whole series of potential actions the general manager could take. I would just come back and reference and remind the minister that this becomes part of the problem. It's pretty explicit here, as it is in the current legislation, that the general manager has no obligation for any kind of a hearing, even if they take an action against a licensee.

I would again suggest to the minister that as part of fair process, people should at least have the right to be heard when something as strong as maybe losing their busi- ness might be in play or a signifi cant fi ne up to $50,000. Somebody should have the right to be heard if they're facing that, particularly since there's no appeal process other than a judicial review available here. Th at would be the comment. [1155] I just want to go, though, to the change that the min- ister talked about in 20(6), where it says now that an em- ployee is not responsible for an employer's action.

What are the instances where that occurs? I'm a server. I serve somebody who I think is of age. Apparently, they are not of age. Th ere's a responsibility that comes back on me and comes back on the bar. Am I responsible as the employee and the server, or is that obligation now all with the bar? Hon. S. Anton: Th e answer is that a server is respon- sible for his or her own actions, but the purpose of this section, the change in this section, is they are not respon- sible for the actions of their employer. Noting the time, I would move that the committee rise, report progress and ask leave to sit again.

Motion approved. Th e committee rose at 11:56 a.m. Th e House resumed; Madame Speaker in the chair. Committee of Supply (Section B), having reported progress, was granted leave to sit again.

British Columbia DebatesThursday, April 3, 2014 2769 Committee of Supply (Section A), having reported resolution, was granted leave to sit again. Hon. D. McRae moved adjournment of the House. Motion approved. Madame Speaker: Th is House, at its rising, stands ad- journed until 1:30 this aft ernoon. Th e House adjourned at 11:57 a.m. PROCEEDINGS IN THE DOUGLAS FIR ROOM Committee of Supply ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF TRANSPORTATION AND INFRASTRUCTURE (continued) Th e House in Committee of Supply (Section A); M. Dalton in the chair. Th e committee met at 11:01 a.m.

On Vote 44: ministry operations, $812,293,000 (con- tinued). J. Rice: I have two questions. Th e fi rst is in regards to Highway 16. I think I've kind of got the gist of a con- versation yesterday with the Minister of Transportation and another member. I'm just looking for clarifi cation on what, if any, action is going to be taken on addressing the needs of aboriginal women living in remote communities between Prince Rupert and Prince George. Hon. T. Stone: I thank the member for North Coast for her question with respect to Highway 16.

As I did indicate yesterday, government is fully com- mitted to acting on the recommendation that came out of the Oppal report. Th e recommendation — as the mem- ber, I think, knows well — with respect to Transportation was to identify safe transportation options along the Highway 16 corridor. To that extent — I think, also, as the member knows well — this is proving to be a recommendation that's probably, out of all of the recommendations, one of the most challenging to address. Th ere is no silver bullet.

Th at being said, there have been a tremendous number of discussions and meetings that have been held, particu- larly with local government offi cials, community organ- izations and other stakeholders throughout the corridor. Th ose discussions to this point have largely been led by Ministry of Transportation staff .

Recently, however, there are some further collabora- tive eff orts that are now taking place between staff in the Ministries of Justice, community services, as well as the Ministry of Transportation so that we can hopefully ac- celerate the work that's underway to fulfi l as fully as pos- sible the recommendation to identify safe transportation options for folks along the Highway 16 corridor. [1105] J. Rice: A diff erent topic. I know that this question has been posed before, so I'm going to just frame it a little bit diff erently.

We on this side of the House have been asking for an economic impact analysis of the recent cuts and fare hikes to B.C. Ferries. My question would be: what would it take in order to have this be conducted by the provin- cial government? Th e Chair: Just to interrupt the proceedings for a mo- ment to welcome, in the chamber, Jonathan, Terry and Peg Weins from Kamloops, the minister's home turf. Hon. T. Stone: Again, thank you to the member for North Coast for her question. I sincerely appreciate the passion which she brings to this issue, recognizing just how critical ferries are to her community in particular.

I want to again go back to some core principles here and to reiterate, for the member, messaging that I think has been consistent from me and from government for the last ten months. We have said ever since we launched our ferry vision, which was on November 18 of 2013, that there were in- deed going to be impacts in communities. To a large ex- tent, those impacts were going to be economic. I have consistently stated that those impacts would vary from one community to the next but that they would be real and they would be painful. Th ere is no question about that.

I also want to acknowledge that government certainly acknowledges the signifi cant and very important con- tribution that B.C. Ferries makes to the provincial econ- omy and, indeed, to the economies of local communities. We're talking about a corporation here that employs over 4,000 people. Obviously, there are the wages and the eco- nomic multiplier eff ect of that. Certainly, as I said — I believe it was yesterday or the day before, in estimates — B.C. Ferries spends over $100 million per year on maintenance and refi t work, all with- in British Columbia. Th at has a huge impact on the econ- omy.

So we understand that. We acknowledge that. But again, I come back to the opening part of my response here: we have consistently stated that there will be a sig- nifi cant economic impact in coastal communities as a result of the service adjustments that B.C. Ferries is mov- ing forward with. [1110]

British Columbia Debates2770 Thursday, April 3, 2014 But they are a part of an overall strategy. Because we said to people in coastal communities and we said to British Columbians that we were going to fi x the ferry system for the long term, we are absolutely determined to follow through on that commitment. Th at means tough decisions like these service adjust- ments, that means holding B.C.

Ferries accountable to their $54 million effi ciency target, and that means doing everything else, as laid out in our strategy on November 18, to work towards getting ferries to a place of aff ord- ability, sustainability and, indeed, a service that will be there for generations to come. S. Fraser: Th anks to the minister and staff for being here today. I don't have much time. I'd love to get into the debate that my colleague just embarked on here, but I don't have time for that. As I've warned the minister already…. I already ap- prised him that I'm going to just keep it to Highway 4 alternative access.

It's a question I've raised with all of your predecessors for the last nine years. Kevin Falcon equated me with the salmon that keeps coming back. So I will ask it…. Hon. T. Stone: Well, this is twice with me. Y ou're in- sistent. S. Fraser: Th at's true — although the Alberni Valley transportation committee has taken up this cause quite strongly in the last couple of years. I know the minister has had a chance to hear from them. Just a progress report. We have only the one access from the east side of the Island across through to Port Alberni and Tofi no and Ucluelet beyond. I have raised it in many ways.

Th e safety issue is something that I've cer- tainly seen fi rsthand, where the highway gets shut down and we are landlocked, if you will, in the community in Port Alberni — for medical emergencies, if there was a landslide, if there was a major earthquake. I have raised it as a safety issue in the past, but of course, of late there are major initiatives that the Alberni Valley is hoping to embark on, mostly associated with their port. Th e transportation corridor, of course, be- comes more critical for that. Can the minister just update on the situation?

Do we have any chance of seeing an alternative access to Highway 4 being brought into the works in the near fu- ture? Hon. T. Stone: I thank the member for Alberni–Pacifi c Rim for his question. He was quite correct in stating that I have met with quite a number of individuals and organ- izations throughout the corridor, including the mayor of Tofi no, the mayor of Port Alberni, the economic de- velopment groups. I've had a couple of very good meet- ings with the port as well, and I think it's safe to say that I share the member's excitement for the potential that exists within that port.

Just a quick rehash in terms of improvements that have been made. Over the past ten years over $50 million has been invested in Highway 4, which the member knows well. It's probably because of his well-earned reputation as a salmon that keeps coming back. So good for you. [1115] S. Fraser: Or good staff . Hon. T. Stone: Good staff who follow up, yeah. In 2013 there were signifi cant improvements made with respect to installation of barriers. I believe about 14 or 15 bridges were either replaced or upgraded. Th ere were some improvements with respect to message board signs, and so forth.

For the 2014 fi scal year we have ap- proximately $4 million allocated for continued safety and rehab improvements on Highway 4, so that's good news for that corridor. I'll end on this note, just from more of a general per- spective. Th e member would know well that a very fi rm commitment that we made to the people of Vancouver Island in the recent election was our commitment re- lating to the Vancouver Island transportation plan. Th e Highway 4 corridor, certainly, government sees as an im- portant part of that plan.

Th e plan will focus on all as- pects of transportation — the ports, airports, highways and so forth. One fi nal point I'll make. I think this is an appropriate place to say this again. Th e Vancouver Island transporta- tion plan will be a subset of the new ten-year vision that the Premier has asked me to pull together through this year. Th e last time that we had a ten-year vision was in 2003. Substantially all of the projects and the commit- ments made in that vision have either been completed or are nearing completion.

Th is provides us with a tremen- dous opportunity to refresh the transportation vision for a new ten-year window. In addition to safety being the number one concern, very close to that now is…. We're also looking at projects through the lens of goods movement and economic de- velopment. Th at's why I come back to the potential that there is at the port of Port Alberni. Th ere's a tremen- dous opportunity there to grow that port, some excel- lent work being done on the ground there.

We certainly want to do our part, from an infrastructure perspective, to assist in that growth and create more jobs in the com- munities aff ected. S. Fraser: Th ank you to the minister for that. I know we're running out of time. I just want to thank his staff for some of the safety improvements. Th ey were very ef- fi cient, and Dave did a great job. We had some tragic deaths there on Highway 4. We lost two paramedics — friends of mine, actually — so I

British Columbia DebatesThursday, April 3, 2014 2771 appreciate that work. Just to fi nish this off , close the loop on alternative ac- cess. Is there a next step that the community or the com- munity groups involved should be taking to try to get the alternative access as high a priority as possible? Is there advice that the minister could provide to me to relay to the community for that? Hon. T. Stone: My advice to the member would be this. Please advise your community organizations to stay tuned.

We will be in touch very soon with details related to the engagement component of the Vancouver Island transportation strategy. Certainly, as the member knows well, the folks with all these organizations in his riding are not shy people. Th ey've been very proactive with our offi ce, with me, and I would encourage them to continue to do so. We will be providing details fairly soon to them directly to facilitate their input as the Vancouver Island transportation strategy is developed. K.

Conroy: I have two questions, so I'm going to put them together — looking at time and trying to make sure we have enough time for my other colleagues. Th e fi rst one is Highway 3. I am hoping — I'm pray- ing, and I don't pray very oft en — that the minister is going to be doing some work on the Hope-Princeton. Even though I'm from the Kootenays, I'm going to lob- by strongly for Highway 3, because it's the route that the majority of us use when we're coming to the Lower Mainland. We don't use the Coquihalla. Primarily, we go through Highway 3. Right now it's in abysmal shape.

I just drove down last week and drove back again, and the number of potholes is huge. At one point, two kids and a daughter screamed in the car when we hit a pothole, in trying to manoeuvre. My husband said I probably need a wheel alignment. It's really bad, so I want to bring that to the minister's…. Hon. T. Stone: Send Dave the bill for that. K. Conroy: Send Dave the bill? Okay, that's on rec- ord. Awesome. [1120] It's in really bad shape. I know that with the weather and the frost heaves, all of that kind of thing, the roads get bad.

Th e higher roads which I have to travel over, which are all higher than the Allison Pass, are not as bad as the Hope-Princeton, which was terrible. So please do something about that. My other question is about the Old Trail Bridge. I'm going to be like the salmon next to me, but I've raised this every session — I've got nods from behind me — since, I think, '06. It's an old bridge that needs to be decommis- sioned. Th e city is hoping they can make some kind of deal with the government. Th e government sold it to the city, I think in the '60s. Th e government owned it for 50 years.

Now the city has owned it for 50 years. I know the mayor, Dieter Bogs, would dearly like to sell it back to you for the dollar they bought it for, but I know that's not going to happen. He would still like to put that on record. Th e cost to decommission the bridge is considerable. It needs to be torn down. It's old. Th ey've actually gone out to the community. Th ey're going to build a pedes- trian bridge. Th ey've got buy-in from the regional dis- trict. One of the problems is there's a sewer line that goes underneath that bridge that attaches to both sides of the communities across the river.

Th ey need to have some- thing there for that, so they've got the regional district buying in on that. But they need help in tearing down the bridge. It's a huge, costly aff air that has to be done if we don't want chunks of bridge falling into the river and fl oating down into the United States, which is what would happen. Th ey're hoping that somewhere there's going to be some help from the ministry, even if it's a 50-50 — you both owned it for 50 years each — some sort of cost-sharing that can help with the decommission of that bridge. Hon. T. Stone: I thank the member for Kootenay West for her questions.

In reverse order, if I may. In terms of the Old Trail Bridge, as the member knows, the point of contention here is obviously the cost related to bringing the bridge down and doing so in a safe and responsible manner. Th e most recent estimates are several million dollars in order to do that.

In just checking with my offi cials, I understand it's been awhile since our offi cials and the municipality ac- tually sat down and had a current conversation about this, so I will instruct my staff to do that and have a discussion about where this project is at. [1125] With respect to Highway 3, the Hope-Princeton Highway, again, following on the comments I made with the member for Alberni–Pacifi c Rim, this is also another very proactive group, particularly the coalition of mayors throughout the corridor. I've had a number of meetings with these mayors over the last ten months and understand well the concerns.

Th ere are particular sections that do need some attention sooner rather than later, for certain. Over the last ten years we have invested almost $200 million in the corridor. We do have on the books another $30 million to $40 million of investment for rehabilita- tion and upgrades along this corridor over the next three years. We're just in a process of seeking input and feed- back from the mayors' coalition and others through the corridor on making sure that we get the priorities right on the spend over the next three years. K.

Conroy: I'm not asking a question, just letting the minister know that the city of Trail is trying to set up meetings, and my offi ce has been in touch with your of-

British Columbia Debates2772 Thursday, April 3, 2014 fi ce. I'll make sure they get in touch really quick again to make sure that that can happen sooner than later. N. Macdonald: Okay, I think we're in the place in es- timates where we say things rather than really ask ques- tions. Just a series of things that we've been working on. First, I think the minister has one of the best jobs in cabinet. I think it's just a very interesting fi le to have. I also want to say that your local staff …. I mean, I'm sure that you hear it from all of us, but we really appreciate the local staff . Th ey talk to our of- fi ce.

Th ey answer the questions, because these questions oft en come with a certain degree of urgency, especially if there's a road closed or if somebody feels an area should be plowed in a certain way, and it's not. We need that good contact, and it's there. Th e Trans-Canada, predictably. Th e minister, I know, has had the exchange with the critic. Th ere have been in- vestments. We need to fi nish the Kicking Horse, and cer- tainly around Revelstoke. I know these are massive sums of money. Th e government has said the right things, with signs up before each election and with promises.

Th ere really has to now be something on the ground. It's been a while since Gordon Campbell was Premier, when we had that work done. Other than the Donald Bridge, we really are not making the progress that we need to make for the volume and the importance of that corridor. Th at's one thing. I want to talk about safety. Th ese are issues that don't necessarily align with the minister's responsibilities but do speak to the importance of keeping that corridor open. We have a very strange system of paying for rescue trucks. I have had trouble with the Field truck that's been hit and has had to be replaced.

Right now Revelstoke is trying to get a truck replaced. Invermere lost their truck, and Golden, because it wasn't up to standard, had to get a new truck. For all of these you go through a very complicated sys- tem of trying to get lottery money, trying to raise money. Th ese are all volunteers. Th e volume and the severity of the accidents they're asked to deal with speaks to trying to fi gure out a better system for making sure that we have road rescue managed. I think that would be something the minister could take on and try to fi gure out how to do that part of it better.

Th e paramedic contract means that we have a very dif- fi cult time keeping paramedics with the experience that we need to manage the Kicking Horse. Again, this is a Health issue, but it speaks to the safety of that road. Th e minister will understand, no doubt, that the fee

schedule for paramedics just doesn't work to provide the type of care that's needed on the Trans-Canada. Y ou have prob- ably some of the least experienced paramedics, because that's all you can retain, looking aft er seriously injured people for hours on end. It's always going to be diffi cult. In terms of policing, when I was mayor in Golden, we had far more police on that road. I travel very oft en to get to Victoria through Calgary. Alberta has a number of other agencies that look aft er ensuring that people are following the rules. Th ey have sheriff s and other things. I guess the question is….

Many in Golden have the same experience, or from Revelstoke, and they say: is it possible that if we have fewer police making sure that rules are followed, are there other groups that could do the same work? [1130] Is it possible to use sheriff s? Is it possible to use the commercial vehicle people, who I understand aren't en- abled to ticket? Certainly, we have commercial vehicle people that…. It seems to me, if that's the case, it would make sense that they could ticket on vehicles other than commercial. Th at maybe is not their primary focus, but there's no reason why they should be precluded from do- ing it.

I think that's something that could be looked at. Dividing lines. I know they regularly repaint at this time of year. I know the minister drove the Trans-Canada and says that he drives it fairly regularly. Th is time of year the dividing lines are almost impossible to see. I'm sure that there is a reason for the type of paint that's used. I'm sure that it dries quickly or something. But this time of year it's regularly brought to our offi ce as being a safety hazard. Th e other issue. Y ou've arranged a meeting on the auto- body issue. Rural autobody shops are not going to be able to manage.

I appreciate the minister set up that meeting. Th e last area is just with the commercial vehicle en- forcement. I think they do a good job with the trucks. Th ey make sure they have the chains, but what we repeat- edly see is that those chains aren't used. Either it's a train- ing issue for the trucking companies, which is possible, but I think it's also possible that it may be just easier to take the chance on getting up a hill without the chains. Anecdotally, I see this so oft en, where you're halfway up the hill, and there's a truck there. Th ey were told.

Y ou've got the signs up saying that they should be chain- ing up, and they just choose not to. Th at's, again, another area. I don't know if the penalty has to be more to make it worth their while to do it, or a diff erent enforcement regime. I don't know what it is, but I know that it's a big enough problem that it's repeatedly brought to the offi ce. Th e other thing, I would say. Y ou have service awards for police and for fi re. Th e commercial vehicle…. We have quite a few stationed in Golden.

One of the things that one of them mentioned to me is: has the ministry considered a service award for people that do very good work for you? Th at's a whole bunch of things, many that aren't in your purview completely but relate to the work that you do. With that, I'll take my seat. Hon. T. Stone: Certainly, I very much appreciate all

British Columbia DebatesThursday, April 3, 2014 2773 of the comments and feedback and questions from the member for Columbia River–Revelstoke. I'll do my best, as quickly as possible, to address some of them. First off , on the issue of the paint used in dividing lines, I'm going to endeavour to provide a written response to you on that. Th ere is an explanation. It relates primar- ily to federal environmental regulations that restrict the use of certain types of paint, which means what you're left with is paint that doesn't stick to the road as well as it used to.

Th ere are all kinds of research and innovation taking place across Canada. Th is is an issue in every province, frankly, because of these federal regulations. I will put a more fulsome response in writing for the member, if that's okay with him. With respect to the CVSE enforcement of the use of chains with commercial vehicles, again, I think what I may do is ask my staff to reach out to you and maybe understand a bit more the experiences that have been re- lated to you and some of the anecdotal information that you have.

We certainly want to make sure that CVSE is doing everything they can from an enforcement perspec- tive on that. So we'll work together on that issue. With respect to rural autobody shops, the member is one of many who have raised this. I want to be really clear about this, and not just within the NDP caucus. Certainly, within government I have made it very clear. I actually said it again yesterday, with the ICBC president sitting right behind me here in estimates, that there is to be no sole-source procurement. Th ere is to be no limited pro- curement when it comes to any of the service providers.

Th at is not on, and it's for exactly the reasons that the member stated. Th ere are small businesses — windshield shops, colli- sion repair businesses, tow truck drivers and others — in every small rural community across this province that employ two, fi ve, ten, 12 people. Th ey are critical busi- nesses for these small communities. Th erefore, ICBC has a very clear directive from government, from me person- ally, to ensure that there is not to be any work whatsoever done on a move towards sole-source procurement or lim- ited procurement, for that matter, as well.

If the member hears of anything happening in his communities on this front, I would ask him to inform me as quickly as possible, so I can address it swift ly. [1135] With respect to service awards for the CVSE, I think that's a terrifi c idea. I will explore that with our staff . Th e member is quite correct. CVSE staff each and every day of the week are, in many respects, heroes. Th ey do ter- rifi c work for the ministry. Th ey keep our highways safe.

If British Columbians actually knew just the sheer volume of inspections that take place, visual and other- wise, as well as all the other work that CVSE does to keep our highways safe, I think people would be blown away. Th ese are hard-working men and women, and they de- serve our praise and a pat on the back. We'll look into that. Th e member is correct with respect to the comments that he made in regards to paramedics and police and so forth. Obviously those are, indeed, outside of

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	20140403am-Hansard-v10n1
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	20140403am Hansard v10n1
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	588e4e385564c975180d9595b860ae0f26c9a74e

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