Manitoba Hansard — 6 December 1999 (Sitting 9, 37th Legislature, 1st Session)

37-1-9

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

First Session -Thirty-Seventh Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Publislled under tile autllority of Tile Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. L No. 9 - l :30 p.m., Monday, December 6, 1999 ISSN 0542-5492

Member AGLUGUB, Cris ALLAN, Nancy ASHTON, Steve, Hon. ASPER, Linda BARRETT, Becky, Hon. CALDWELL, Drew, Hon. CERILLI, Marianne CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. CUMMINGS, Glen DACQUAY, Louise DERKACH, Leonard DEWAR, Gregory DOER, Gary, Hon. DRIEDGER, Myrna DYCK, Peter ENNS, Harry FAURSCHOU, David FILMON, Gary FRIESEN, Jean, Hon. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. GILLESHAMMER, Harold HEL WER, Edward HICKES, George JENNISSEN, Gerard KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie LA THLIN, Oscar, Hon. LAURENDEAU, Marcel LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. LOEWEN, John MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. MAGUIRE, Larry MALOWAY,Jim MARTINDALE, Doug McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon. MIHYCHUK, MaryAnn, Hon.

MITCHELSON, Bonnie NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom PENNER, Jack PENNER, Jim PITURA, Frank PRAZNIK, Darren REID, Daryl REIMER, Jack ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. ROCAN, Denis RONDEAU, Jim SALE, Tim, Hon. SANTOS, Conrad SCHELLENBERG, Harry SCHULER, Ron SELINGER, Greg, Hon. SMITH, Joy SMITH, Scott STEFANSON, Eric STRUTHERS, Stan TWEED, Mervin WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Seventh Legislature Constituency The Maples St. Vital Thompson Riel Inkster Brandon East Radisson Kildonan Ste.

Rose Seine River Russell Selkirk Concordia Charleswood Pembina Lakeside Portage Ia Prairie Tuxedo Wolseley River Heights Minnedosa Gimli Point Douglas Flin Flon St. James The Pas St. Norbert La Verendrye Fort Whyte St. Johns Arthur-Virde n Elmwood Burrows Lord Roberts Minto River East Interlake Emerson Steinbach Morris Lac du Bonnet Transcona Southdale Rupertsland Carman Assiniboia Fort Rouge Wellington Rossmere Springfield St. Boniface Fort Garry Brandon West Kirkfield Park Dauphin -Rob lin Turtle Mountain Swan River Political Affiliation N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. P.C.

N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. P.C. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. Lib. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P.

267 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Monday, December 6, 1999 The House met at 1:30 p.m. PRAYERS ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS PRESENTING REPORTS BY STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES Standing Committee on Industrial Relations First Report Mr. Daryl Reid (Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Industrial Relations): I am seeking leave of the House to do a report of the standing committee from this morning. Mr. Speaker: Agreed? [agreed] Mr. Reid: I beg to present the First Report of the Committee on Industrial Relations. An Honourable Member: Dispense. Mr. Speaker: Dispense.

Your Standing Committee on Industrial Relations presents the following as its First Report. Your committee met on Monday, December 6, 1999, at 10 a.m. in Room 255 of the Legislative Building to consider bills referred. At the December 6, 1999, meeting, your committee elected Mr. Reid as chairperson and Ms. Korzeniowski as vice-chairperson. Your committee has considered: Bill 3-The Retail Businesses Holiday Closing Amendment Act; Loi modifiant Ia

Loi sur les }ours feritfs dans le commerce de dtftail and has agreed to report the same without amendment. Mr. Reid: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable member for Welli ngton (Mr. Santos), that the report of the committee be received. Motion agreed to. *(1 335) MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS National Day of Remembrance Ecole Polytechnique Hon. Diane McGifford (Minister responsible for the Status of Women): I have a sta tement for the House.

Just prior to reading my statement, I want to advise members of the House that tonight at seven o'clock a candlelig ht vigil will take place to commemorate December 6 on the east side of the front doors of the Legis lature. Today, on this national day of mourning, December 6, 1999, we in this Legislature remember the women murdered in Montreal on December 6, 1989, Manitoba victims of violence and misogyny, and women everywhere who are abused simply because they are female. Some of us will remember those women we love who have been victims of male violence, our mothers, sisters, daughters or friends.

Today we grieve, reflect and take stock but put aside our specific political agendas in favour of communal remembrance and commemoration. On December 6, 1989, a heavily armed man entered Montreal's Ecole polytechnique, and after shouting "You're all a bunch of feminists," he murdered 14 women and seriously wounded 13 more. Many women remember exactly what they were doing when they heard the news. They have told and retold their stories.

Telling these stories was a measure of our pain and bewilder ment, an attempt to understand the over whelming juxtaposition of the perf ectly pedestrian with the absolutely terrifying, to try

268 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 6, 1999 out, in my personal case, the terrible truth that on December 6, 1989, in my country, at a university, while I was making the next day's lunches, 14 women, some older, some younger than my daughters, were murdered. Ten years later, our national clarity is a sign that the lives of Canadian women changed that night. Our vulnera bility as women became starkly apparent.

As members of this Assembly, we can never forget December 6, 1989, because 14 women were massacred in Canada where things like that do not happen and because the massacre symbolizes a possibility for all women. Some ask, I know, why women still gather publicly to remember December 6, 1989. Shortly after the murders, I heard a CBC report on what was happening in Canadian women's shelters and women's service agencies on December 6, 1989.

The litany of brutality was chill ing, a long list of vicio usness and hatred, certain evidence that the Montreal murderer was one among hundreds of simi larly minded men who see women as inconsequential, disposable ciphers, not as living beings with the right to freedom and choice. I am repeating what we know. The violence in Montreal was not isolated.

Since December 6, 1989, at least 91 women have been murdered by their partners, former partners, boyfriends, men who considered themselves boyfriends, even by total strangers-ninety-one women just wiped out, erased and often after years of brutality and humiliation. We must remember December 6 not only because of Montreal but because the violence is here and continues. Earlier today I spoke about the importance of communicating these terrible truths to our child ren and grandchildren. Sadly, they need to know, but more positively, I told the group that in our remembrance we become witnesses to truth.

We declare publicly that we know what is happening, we name it and we demand that it stop. Here in this Legislature, as witnesses, we tell our children that we value life, that we stand by our sisters, mothers, aunts, friends. Witnessing with all of you gives me strength and comfort. It is important to say that the courage and determination of women and men, some of them here in this Legislature, have made an enormous difference. Shelters now save women's lives, counselling services help women to heal . Second-stage housing provides the support women need to transform their lives.

People no longer tell jokes about domestic assault and abuse. There is much work to do, but the good news is that we are recreating our culture. We have made changes and we will, I fervently believe, make more. Today is a day of mourning. As we remember Montreal we will remember real women with real names. Genevieve Bergeron, Helene Colgan, Natalie Croteau, Barbara Daignault, Ann-Marie Edward, Maud Haviernick, Barbara Marie Klueznick, Maryse Laganiere, Maryse Leclair, Anne-Marie Lemay, Sonia Pelletier, Michele Richard, Annie Saint Armeault, Annie Turcotte.

Let us remember too the women who were injured and remember the other survivors, family, friends, lovers and colleagues. Let us remember the four Manitoba women who in 1999 were murdered by men: Diane Laura Dunsford, Muriel Sandra Oneschuk, Angela Costa Craveiro, Noreen Lucinda Stevenson. Let us remember that viole nce forever dimini shes all our lives and so let us renew our commitment to work for change. In closing, I invite all members to join with this government to build a better world. Second, Mr.

Speaker, I ask if, after the opposition's response to this statement, the House would agree to rise for a minute of silent remembrance. Mr. Speaker: Prior to recognizing the government of ficial opposition critic, is there agreement to rise for one minute after the member has made her statement? [agreed] *

(1340) Mrs. Louise Dacquay (Seine River): I would like to join with the Minister responsible for the Status of Women and thank her for her statement on the 1Oth anniversary of the Montreal massacre. I know all members of this House take this issue of violence very seriously and have worked toward trying to create a safer environ ment for all citizens. The murder of 14 women at the Ecole polytechnique in Montreal on December 6, 1989, was a tragic incident and it is difficult to believe that ten years have passed

December 6, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 269 since this sad

chapter was added to Canadian history. These young women had built dreams, were ambitious and talented, and regretfully, through no fault of their own, these young women were not allowed to fulfill their dreams. It is painful to remember the Montreal massacre, but we must learn from it. We hope and pray that it will never be repeated, but sadly, violence against women, children and men continues on a daily basis across Canada and around the world. As we know all too well, abuse and violence affect everyone, regardless of gender, age, race, religion or socioeconomic group.

It takes many forms, including physical, mental, emotional, sexual and financial abuse. Over the past few years, much has been accomplished in terms of helping Manitoba women and their families. For example, the Women's Directorate, in co operation with groups such as the RCMP and the Winnipeg Police, launched the Keeping Safe at Work program to help those who work alone or who travel to and from work alone. In co-operation with the Child and Youth Secretariat, the Women's Directorate developed the Manitoba Strategy on Youth Prostitution to help young prostitutes.

The Victims Rights and Consequential Amendments Act was proclaimed earlier this year. Funding to rural victims services has been increased as well as funding to the Criminal Injuries Compensation program. Manitoba was also the first jurisdiction in Canada to announce the Victims First emer gency cellula r telephone program for victims of stalking or domestic violence. Staff in the Crown Attorneys family violence unit was doubled. Manitoba has also passed tough antistalking legislation.

These are a few of the very important initiatives implemented under the previous administration to help make sure Manitoba's women, children and families are safer. I look forward to working with the new administration to make sure we find more ways to make our society safer. That is why events such as the National Day of Remembrance and Action on Violence Against Women are important, because they once again help focus our attention on the very important issue of viole nce in Canadian society.

We must continue our efforts to prevent all forms of violence, and in particular, the violence directed to women and children and other vulnerable citizens. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): I rise to add my voice very briefly to- Mr. Speaker: Does the honourable member have leave? [agreed] Mr. Gerrard: I rise to add my voice briefly on this impor tant and significant occasion, the 10- year anniversa ry of a very sad event. Clearly, all of us are interested in a safer and a more just society.

It will take continuing vigila nce on all our parts as individuals and collectively as a government. Let us continue to remember what happened 10 years ago and continue to work very hard to improve safety for women, for children and for others in our society. Thank you. Mr. Speaker: Please rise for a minute of silent remembrance. A minute of silence was observed. Mr. Speaker: Please be seated. *

(1345) TABLING OF REPORTS Hon. MaryAnn Mihychuk (Minister of Industry, Trade and Mines): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to table the following 1998-99 annual reports, copies of which have already been distributed: Manitoba Indus try, Trade and Tourism Annual Report; the Economic Innovation Technology Council Annual Report; the Manitoba Trade and Investment Corporation Annual Report; and finally, the Annual Report for Indus trial Technology Centre Special Operating Agency. Mr. Speaker: Notices of Motion. Order, please.

Is it the will of the House to revert back to Ministerial Statements and Tabling of Reports? [agreed] Hon. Eric Robinson (Minister of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs): I would like to table

270 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 6, 1999 the Quarterly Report for the Communities Economic Development Fund for the quarter ended September 30, 1999. Hon. Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): would like to table the Manitoba Hospital Capital Financing Authority Annual Report and the return, under

Section 20, of The Public Of ficers Act. INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 2-The City of Winnipeg Amendment Act Hon. Jean Friesen (Minister of Intergovern mental Affairs): Mr. Speaker, I beg that leave be given to introduce Bill 2, The City of Winnipeg Amendment Act; Loi modi fiant Ia

Loi sur Ia Ville de Winnipeg, and that the same be now received and read a first time. Mr. Speaker: It has been moved by the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs (Ms. Friesen), seconded by the Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger), that leave be given to introduce Bill 2, The City of Winnipeg Amendment Act, and the same be now received and read a first time. Motion agreed to. Introduction of Guests Mr. Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, may I direct the attention of honourable members to the gallery where we have with us today twenty one Grade 11 students from St. Maurice School under the direction of Mr.

Shaun McCaffrey. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Fort Garry (Mrs. Smith). We also have twenty-two Grade 11 students from Teulon Colle giate under the direction of Mr. AI Reinsch. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Lakeside (Mr. Enos). Also, we have thirty-eight Grades 9 and 11 students from Spring's Christian Academy under the direction of Mr. Brad Dowler. This school is in the constituency of the Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger). On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you here today.

ORAL QUESTION PERIOD Income Assistance Workfare Legislation Mr. Gary Filmon (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Family Services. After almost two decades, through good economic times and bad, of steady growth in the number of people on welfare in our province, the previous government, through deliberate public policy change, effected a significant reduction of 21 ,000 people off the welfare rolls and into the workforce after changes that it brought about in 1996.

Given that the Minister of Family Services has demonstrated many times in the past that he prefers dependency on government programs to self-sufficiency and in lig ht of his unilateral decision to scrap workfare, something that Today's NDP did not run on in the election campaign, my question to the minister is: what does he plan to replace workfare with, and how much will it cost? Hon.

Tim Sale (Minister of Family Services and Housing): Well, I think the first thing to observe is that the vast majority of the reduction in welfare caseloads has come at the municipal level, through the good work of the previous City of Winnipeg Social Services department, in co-operation with many social service agencies and with their programs which they put in place to assist people to cross bridges to real employ ment through their employment training pro grams, for example.

I just would note that the municipal rolls decreased from 19,000 to approximately 12,000 at the point at which the one-tier system was forced into being by the previous government. I think that in response to the previous question, Mr. Speaker, it has been our policy all along that people who are able to work should do so and be expected to do so. That has not changed. That has been the case in municipal welfare since the 1930s, 1940s. The expectation

December 6, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 27 1 in regard to work on the part of those who are able to work is very clear and remains in place as it has been. What we are interested in is effective job training, employment training. We are concerned about lowering barriers to crossing the bridges to opportunity and to permanent long-term work. *

(1350) Substance Abuse Programs Mr. Gary Filmon (Leader of the Official Opposition): Of course, Mr. Speaker, the training programs that he refers to have been in place since 1996, Opportunities for Employ ment, Taking Charge!, and many others, and also the number of reductions that he talks about at the municipal level amounts to a reduction of 7,000, which is just a third of the 21,000 total reduction. So, as much as, though, he does not want to give credit to the programs that have been put in place by the previous administration, he cannot dodge the fact that indeed it has happened as a result of that.

Indeed, amongst provinces, Manitoba now has the second lowest percentage of its population on welfare, another tribute to the programs, both for training and for getting people into the workforce, that this government, the previous government, had achieved. Mr. Speaker, in addition to that, the welfare bill that the minister has scrapped would also have required people with drug and alcohol problems to enter substance abuse programs in order to continue to coll ect social allowances. On October 27, the minister was quoted in the Winnipeg Free Press as saying: we know that compulsory treatment does not work.

Since the minister, Mr. Speaker, has all the answers, can he explain what alternatives he will be introducing to help people end their dependency on drugs? Hon. Tim Sale (Minister of Family Services and Housing): I think that I first should, per haps, correct some erroneous information that the former Premier put on the record. The case loads diminishing, starting in 1991-92, they were at 40,499; today, when you take into account the municipal caseload reduction as well, it is down to 35,0 00.

In other words, most of the reduction, virtually 90 percent of it, came in the short-term end of the spectrum, which is usually the end of the spectrum that is absorbed back into the workforce whenever there is any increase in employmen t. That increased employment has taken short-term recipients off particularly the municipal caseloads in the years prior to the one tier implementation. Approximately 6,000 or 7,000 have come off that short-term load.

Perhaps the former government would like to know that, in spite of that significant number of cases reduced, the only savings have been less than 10 percent of our costs because precisely those people were not on full social assistance, they were on partial assistance and short-term assistance. So, worthwhile as the reduction is, it is their same reduction we saw in the '80s. When the economy recovered, people came off short term assis-tance; that was the pattern.

In regard to the training programs, it is interesting to observe that the Opport unities for Employment program with the Mennonite Central Committee was proposed to the govern ment before the government came in with its changes in 1996. The Mennonite Central Com mittee came with their proposal and asked for the opportunity to work to help place people into good jobs for which they had been properly trained. The government took advantage of that proposal on the part of MCC and, in effect, co opted them into their proposal.

MCC led the way, as Mennonites have often led the way when it comes to terms of human compassion and concern for quality jobs in this province. Workfare Legislation Mr. Gary Filmon (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, the minister, again of course, did not answer the question. It is absolutely preposterous to suggest that govern ment is wrong for taking advantage of local groups, community-based groups that have a good idea and a good proposal. I do not believe that government has all the answers; it is only the foolish Minister of Family Services who believes that.

Absolutely ridiculous to suggest that government has all the answers. So now we have Big Brother saying we should not take advantage of local community organizations.

272 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 6, 1999 Mr. Speaker, my final suppl ementary is to the First Minister. When the Minister of Family Services announced unilaterally that he was scrapping workfare legisla tion, he said, and I quote: I have yet to meet an able-bodied or a capable social assistance recipient who does not want to work. Since the Premier has appointed the member for Fort Rouge (Mr. Sale) to cabinet can he tell us: firstly, does he agree with that statement of his minister, and what will the additional cost to government be as a result of more people remaining on welfare? Hon.

Gary Doer (Premier): Mr. Speaker, we did not scrap the legislation. The members opposite failed to proclaim the legislation. Why does the former Premier try to leave an impression in this Chamber that the legislat ion was scrapped by the new government? At the time we came into office- Some Honourable Members: Oh. oh. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Mr. Doer: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we came into office and our suspicions about no program in place except a political prop, regrettably, were true. I regret to say that to the people of Manitoba.

They had the opportunity to proclaim their own legislation; they failed to do so because there was nothing in place except straight partisan politics on behalf of the members opposite to lead to their ad campaign. We are not going to play politics with the disabled people of Manitoba. They may want to play politics with disabled people of Manitoba; we are not going to do that. I recall Mr.

David Martin's presentation to the committee where he asked us not to force his membership to have to starve to death to deal with the iegislation put in by the Tories because they were not consulting with the disabled community. We feel, Mr. Speaker, that when we rebuild- *

(1355) Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Doer: I would refer members to the Hansard-[interjection] Well, if they do not read Hansard, we do, and if they do not listen to the disabled community, we do, and we will continue to do so. Mr. Speaker. in place today is a provision for social workers working for the Province of Manitoba to do as much as they can to have people work and give them an opportunity to work on social assistance. There is also the iron fist in the legislation that provides for con sequences for able-bodied people who have the opportunity to work and fail to do so to take the consequences.

We voted against a 20 percent decrease in nutrition for babies in Manitoba, again something we are proud to do. We believe in prenatal and natal programs, something the members opposite do not. Having said that, programs like Student Social Allow ances that allow people to get off welfare would have been cut by members opposite. We are going to rebuild opportunities for people and help get them off welfare with real programs, not partisan politics. Mr. Filmon: The member opposite knows that the legislation did not impact on a disabled community. He knows that, and he deliberately sorry.

I cannot say deliberately. He persists in misrepresenting it. He is wrong. Mr. Speaker. my question then: if the First Minister says they did not scrap the workfare legislation. \viii he then proceed to proclaim it? Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker. David Martin was never consulted by members opposite before the legislation came in. He was representing the Society for Manitobans with Disabilities. I listen ed to him. I read his brief, I read Hansard. If the former Premier has failed to do so, I regret that. So. Mr. Speaker. we moved 12 amendments to the iegis!adOll.

After those amendments were defeated. the go\ ernment of the day had the opportunity to pass the legislation and proclaim it. They did not do so because this was just a political prop for partisan purposes. The elements of our amendments, the elements of our amendments that put in addiction programs, training programs, work opportunity programs,

December 6, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 273 that consult with disabled people, that deal with people who want to get off welfare and will get off welfare, we will work with them to get them off welfare, and we will be proud to do so. We are not going to play politics with the most vulnerable people in our community. Mr. Filmon: Mr. Speaker, I wish that the Premier would not misrepresent the circum stances. Mr. David Martin was not only consulted about the legislation, he sat in the former minister's office in the consultation process. I invite the Premier to call Mr. Martin to verify that.

So if the members opposite are not going to scrap the legisla tion, then will the Premier commit to implement the legis lation by proclaiming it? Mr. Doer: Mr. Martin did meet in the minister's office about an hour or two before the govern ment introduced the legislation in Manitoba. Mr. Speaker, that is in his brief.

The former minister and the former Premier should know that in the brief from the Society for Manitobans with Disabilities and with the people from Harvest that are on the front lines of this issue, they implored the government to take the time to meet with them to achieve the objective of giving people a job and opportunities, a com munity service on the one hand but not rush it so disabled people, the hearing impaired, and others would be cut off on the other hand. You did not have the time. You did not have the time because your agenda for politics was more important than the vulnerable people in our society.

Mr. Speaker, you had almost over 11 years to meet with those people to deal with this issue. You failed to do so because your political ads imported from Ontario were more important than people in Manitoba. We will work with our vulnerable community and come up with positive ways to get them off welfare and on to jobs. Income Assistance Workfare Legislation Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): In a recent

article in the Winnipeg Sun, Mr. Frank Wesley, an aboriginal man, is quoted as saying: Before the handouts in the 1960s, we had worse housing, but we were healthier. Then we became exposed to a social life where handouts replaced work. We must regain our self-esteem and discipline. Mr. Speaker, could the Minister of Family Services humbly explain to Mr. Wesley why he is scrapping workf are, rather than doing every thing in his power to move Manitobans off social assistance and into the dignity of a job? Hon. Tim Sale (Minister of Family Services and Housing): Mr.

Speaker, under the kinds of training programs that we would like to see in place, some of which are in good shape at this point-particularly, I think the MCC program is working quite well-we need more flexible daycare so the people who lose employment are not faced with the fact that they also lose their daycare in two weeks, a clause put in by the former government which punishes people who lose their employment and then are unable to find replacement employment within two weeks. They then lose their daycare. What kind of intellig ent policy of keeping people at work is that?

We are also concerned with the fact that the government of the day, when it jammed this legislation through in the dying days of the session as a stick to beat on people and divide Manitobans during an election, they did take the time to write out to the community and find out how many of their friends supported this legis lation that they were jamming through. I would just like to tell the House that I have a letter here from a former Premier to dear fellow Manitoban, which I am prepared to table. *

(1400) Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Point of Order Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (Opposition House Leader): Mr. Speaker, Beauchesne 417 is very clear, that matters should be as brief as possible and not provoke debate. The honourable minis ter is avoiding the question that has been put to him. I only wish he

274 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 6, 1999 would have answered the question. Maybe he will take that opportunity after the next one. Mr. Speaker: The honourable Government House Leader, on the same point of order. Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): On the point of order, Mr. Speaker, I notice that the Opposition House Leader got up at the exact time that it looked like an embarrassing moment was facing the opposition. I suggest that the answer is very important to the question. Mr.

Speaker: May I remind all honourable ministers that answers to questions should be as brief as possible, should deal with the matter raised and should not provoke debate. * * * Mr. Speaker: The honourable Minister of Family Services, please answer the question. Mr. Sale: Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to answer the question in regard to the quality of the training opportunities that we intend to be offering to people who are on social assistance. We know that there are totally inadequate services for people with addictions. We know that there is not flexible daycare in place.

We know that people do not get the skills they need in order to make a secure and permanent transition to the workforce, because some of the programs the former government had in place simply created a revolving-door syndrome in which people went out into subsidized jobs, the subsidy ended and people fell back onto social assist ance. We do not think those kinds of training programs are good enough.

We are going to work with the training community, the business community and the social assis tance community to put in place the kinds of programs that would make for success moving into full-time, long term quality employment. Mrs. Driedger: I think Mr. Frank Wesley would be extremely disappointed with that answer. My question to that same minister is: what guarantee can he give Manitobans that we will see the continued yearly decline of welfare caseload numbers that we have experienced since introducing welfare reforms in 1996? Mr. Sale: Mr.

Speaker, I have met now with approximately a hundred advocates or social assistance recipients. I have met with staff from the line department of the department that is now headquartered on Rorie Street.

I have given instruction to my department that the quality of our training programs is to be assessed very carefully, that we are to look for every single barrier that there is created by the previous government or left in place by the previous government that prevents people from making successful transitions, whether it is the way our rent allowances are developed, whether it is our daycare system, whether it is their failure to put in place adequate and reasonable addiction treatment programs, their cutting of the Student Social Al lowances Program where they say that they want kids to be in good jobs and never to come on social assistance, and then they cut the program that would have allowed them to finish school.

We will not do silly things like that. We will continue to help people make the transition from social assistance to permanent jobs, and we will do it with all the energy we have and all the energy they had, Mr. Speaker. Mrs. Driedger: Can the Minister of Family Services explain his statement that workfare will not help welfare recipients find work, when in Ontari o since their workfare legisla tion was implemented- Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Mrs.

Driedger: -in Onta rio, since their workfare legis lation was introduced, they have been successful at getting 412,000 people off welfare. That equates to 12 people an hour since 1995, and, in tum, it has saved Ontario taxpayers $2.8 billion. What is this government going to do to help us see those same kinds of successes?

December 6, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 275 Mr. Sale: Mr. Speaker, the Premier of Onta rio has been more successful than any previous Premier in getting people onto social assistance and into poverty, particularly child poverty, and into homelessness and into unemployment. The fact that by draconian measures he has pulled people off social assistance and into home lessness on the streets of Toronto is not the prescription that we want for the people of Manitoba. Aboriginal Gaming Policy Request for Proposals Mr. Jack Reimer (Southdale): Mr.

Speaker, my question is to the minister of northern and native affairs. The other day I asked him a question in regard to the number of casinos that he has been talking about being established over the next short while here in Manitoba. I have in my hand a document in regard to the briefing to the minister in which it has been outlined that a two-person selection committee will be established, that the criteria for the principles of the RFP are to be completed by November 15 of this year, 1999.

The RFP document is to be made available by January 3, 2000, and the closing date for proposals for the selection committee by March 31, for the decision by May 31. I wonder whether the minister can confirm that that is the fast-tracking that has been taken by this government to get the casinos ongoing here in Manitoba. Hon. Eric Robinson (Minister of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs): As I indicated to the member on Friday, the discussion is ongoing between ourselves and the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs with respect to casino pos sibilities in Manitoba.

I cannot say at this point because there is no final agreement as to the form and timetables that the member indicated will take place depending on the outcome of those discussions we are having with the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs. I will say, however, that we are working on the premise of the previous government's Bostrom report that was released in 1997. On that basis, our discussions are continuing with the AMC. Consultations Mr.

Jack Reimer (Southdale): The minister also indicated that in the Bostrom report there was ref erence to a use of the Saskatchewan model as part of the discussion process for making decisions. In the Saskatchewan model, there was a fair amount of public discussion in regard to the community involvement and whether the communities would be consulted with the casinos that are going into their con stituencies. Can the minister indicate that there will be public consultations bef ore any additional casinos are established here in Manitoba? Hon.

Eric Robinson (Minister of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs): I indicated in the previous answer, Mr. Speaker, that we are working on the basis of the Bostrom report. Anybody who takes the opportunity of reading the Bostrom report will see that there are certain things that are required, including social impact studies. It is on that premise that we are pursuing our dialogue with the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs. Mr. Speaker: The honourable member for Southdale, with his final supplementary. Mr.

Reimer: Can the minister then indicate, as he has mentioned that there are discussions going on with AMC, will there be discussions taking place also with the communities that are involved in and around where casinos are being considered so that there is a discussion not only with the AMC but the consultation with the public in and around the area? I know this is a very delicate position for them, but, Mr. Speaker, these are issues that I think the public of Manitoba is very concerned about because of the proliferation of new casinos in and around Manitoba. The public is asking these questions. Mr. Robinson: Mr.

Speaker, I do not want to predetermine the outcome of the discussions that this government is having with the Assembly of

276 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 6, 1999 Manitoba Chiefs, which I indicated on Friday was being conducted on a government-to government basis. I think it would be unwise for me to predetermine what the outcome will be. I can say, however, that it is being done very carefully. It is based on the recommendations of the Bostrom report that the previous government failed to act upon, but we have taken it upon ourselves to move with the report and fast-track the opportunities for First Nations people to address many issues, including housing and the social conditions on reserves throughout this province. *

(1410) Aboriginal Gaming Policy Off-Reserve Casinos Mr. John Loewen (Fort Whyte): Mr. Speaker, we are well aware of the current interest by some of Manitoba's First Nations in the construction of casinos. Last week, in answer in Question Period, the Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs, and I quote, made this statement: We shall make the House and the member aware of the timetable we are looking at in establishing on-reserve casinos in the province of Manitoba.

In clear contradiction to this statement is a briefing note to the Minister of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs, which I have right here, which indicates that they have the right for gaming facilities to be located anywhere in Manitoba. My question is to the Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs. Will the minister advise this House on the timetable for the establishment of of f-reserve casinos and their proposed locations? Hon. Ron Lemieux (Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs): Once again, I would like to thank the member for the question. We are committed to the Bostrom report.

Within the Bostrom report it states, if the member has read the Bostrom report, that First Nations communities, in consultation with other groups, as well as a number of different First Nations communities, will determine where these casinos shall be located. For example, they make reference in the Bostrom report to Saskatchewan, where they have a casino in Yorkton right in the community. Mr. Loewen: I take from that answer that the current government is looking at both on-reserve and of f-reserve casinos in clear contradiction of the minister's statement last week.

In light of his comment today, I would like to ask the Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs: what steps will be taken to ensure that local communities will be consulted and have input prior to the establishment of a casino in their community? Mr. Lemieux: With regard to consultation, in order to have a casino, in Yorkton for example, it was the municipal government as well as the federal government, under the Criminal Code of Canada, that they had to speak and talk to each other.

I am sure the local municipal government has the authority and, based upon their election, have the authority from people of that com munity to go ahead and proceed with an urban reserve and a casino in their community. Mr.

Loewen: Given that the minis ter is quoted in this weekend's Free Press as saying our position has always been no expansion in the city of Winnipeg, I would ask the minister that, given that cities and municipalities have the right to hold referendums regarding locations of VL Ts in the communities, will this minister and his government guarantee that all cities and rural municipalities will have the right to hold referendums before a casino is opened in their community? Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. I am sure we all want to hear the answer. Mr. Lemieux: Mr.

Speaker, there are many options on the table right now. Those issues are going to come forward, but this previous govern ment are the ones who cut off and ended negotiations with First Nations people, and they forget about the economic benefits to the First Nations community. They had 11 years to do so, II years to consult with the First Nations com munity, and they sat on it and sat on it. Point of Order Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (Opposition House Leader): Mr. Speaker, Beauchesne 417 again is

December 6, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 277 very clear: "Ans wers to questions should be as brief as possible, deal with the matter raised and should not provoke debate." But, Mr. Speaker, the honourable member did not answer the question. Will there be a referendum? It is very simple. Yes or no? Mr. Speaker: The honourable official Opposi tion House Leader does not have a point of order. Beef Industry Processing Plants Mr. Jack Penner (Emerson): Mr.

Speaker, in discussions that I have participated in, in the last couple of days with the beef industry in this province-again members of this Legisla ture want to thank the beef producers for the luncheon they put on today in the basement-it is interesting to note that the beef industry has had a very signif icant growth pattern over the last 10 years, significantly different from what happened in the previous 10 years.

We are wondering, and I would like to ask the minister what discussions she has had with the processing industry to encourage and/or re-establish the beef processing industry in this province and whether she has asked the cattlemen's association in this province what their views are and how this should happen and when this should happen. Hon. Rosano Wowchuk (Minister of Agriculture and Food): I thank the honourable member for his question. Certainly the lunch that the beef producers put on this afternoon is just a demonstration of the quality of food that we have here in Manitoba.

We were all very pleased to have the opportunity to share in the food. As with any other product we produce here in Manitoba, we want to look at getting the most possible value that we can. I have had discussions with the Manitoba Cattle Producers on this issue. They are interested in looking at how we can certainly add value to the beef, but at the present time they are also looking at how they can build up their herds in Manitoba so that that industry will grow in this province. Mr. Penner: Mr.

Speaker, the beef industry has seen some very dramatic changes over the last decade in basically changing from a cow-calf operation which it had evolved to in the previous decade in this province. Since the previous government let the processing industry go and allowed Alberta to assume it, we have now become- Mr. Speaker: Could you please put the question. Mr. Penner: -an industry that backgrounds- Point of Order Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): I just want to remind the member-ask you to call him to order-that the supplem entary questions require no

preamble, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: The honourable Government House Leader does have a point of order. There is no

preamble for supplementary questions. Could the honourable member please put his question. * * * Mr. Penner: Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask, then, the minister, whether she recognizes the impact that the feeder cattle industry has had and the expansion that we have seen in back grounding cattle and in finishing cattle and whether she supports that initiative and whether she is going to have specific discussions with the packing industry to try and re-establish that industry in this province. Ms. Wowchuk: Mr.

Speaker, of course I under stand the value of the beef industry in this province, and of course I will have discussions with the beef industry and the processing industry, but we will take advice from the beef industry of what they want done in this province. *

(1420) Manitoba Beef Commission Re-establishment Mr. Jack Penner (Emerson): I would like to ask, then, the minister: is it her intention to revert back to where they were some 10-15 years

278 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 6, 1999 ago and re-establish the Manitoba Beef Commission as they saw it before? Is that their intention? Is that how they are willin g to or wanting to proceed with the beef industry in this province? Hon. Rosano Wowchuk (Minister of Agriculture and Food): Now we know who is starting the rumours. We know that it is this member across the way that is going out to the beef industry and telling them that the NDP plans to bring back the Beef Commission, because that is what they have been telling us. Mr. Speaker. I had discussion with Mr.

Petkau this afternoon about that particular issue. I told him that if he heard it anywhere, it certainly was not from us. It has to be people like the member across the way who is starting those kinds of rumours. There is no truth to them. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: The honourable member for River Heights has the floor, please. HentelefTTree Nursery Development Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): My question is for the Minister of Conservation. It has come to my attention that part of a unique and important natural area. the Henteleff tree nursery, is being considered for develop ment.

Under the present policy of the govern ment of Manitoba, in this booklet, Applying Manitoba's Natural Lands and Special Places Policies, the policy for urban areas indicates that the Manitoba government will provide and seek technical knowledge and advice; review existing urban plans to ensure natural cultural and heritage resources are identified; develop guidelines and programs for their protection, conservation; and establish a planning, design and management process.

My question is: has the Henteleff tree nursery been evaluated according to the above policy, what position has the province taken, and what advice is being sought? Hon. Oscar Lathlin (Minister of Conser vation): Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the member for the question because it is one of the issues that I have been reviewing in the last little while. I want to just simply tell him this after noon that our government recognizes that there are concerns regarding the development of the Henteleff tree nursery and our staff continue to look over the issue.

Our department is also com mitted to sustainable development that ensures the protection of the natural environment. I also want to advise the member that we want to bring all those parties together who are interested in that area to see if we can find a mutually acceptable resolution to that today. That much I can give him today. Mr. Gerrard: My supplementary question to the Minister of Conservation, a follow -up, given such natural areas.

What is the minister doing in terms of a plan for the whole Red River basin, given the importance of this in flood protection and the IGAC report, as well as the preservation of natural areas? Mr. Speaker: The honourable Minister of Con servation, with a very short answer. Mr. Lathlin: Mr. Speaker, let me also advise the member that the Department of Conservation is prepared to provide technical knowledge and assis tance, as well as our staf f people, to the people interested in keeping that area the way it is now. I should also advise the member that apparently this is not a new issue.

It is an issue that has been li ngering now, according to the files that I read, so it has landed on my desk now and that is why- An Honourable Member: It is a serious matter. Mr. Lathlin: It is a very serious matter. I wonder why the previous government never took any action. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for River Heights, with a very short question.

December 6, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 279 Mr. Gerrard: My final supplementary to the Minister of Conservation. Would planning for the Henteleff tree nursery fit in with projects like the Rivers West, which envisages a parkway up and down the Red River? Mr. Lathlin: Mr. Speaker, I was about to inform the member that one of the issues that has been lingering surrounding this particular area has been jurisdiction.

I am advised that the city has sole jurisdiction on this piece of land but that previous stakeholders have been approaching government for quite awhile now to intervene somehow to sustain that area and maintain it as a natural space. Mr. Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Trans-Canada Trail Foundation Ms. Linda Asper (Riel): Mr. Speaker, this government's Culture, Heritage and Tourism minister announced on December 4, 1999, that Manitoba's 900-kilometre stretch of the Trans Canada Trail will receive $2. 125 million in provincial funding to develop the province's

section of this cross-Canada initiative. The Trans-Canada Trail has been selected as the province's signature mil lennium project. The minister declared that it will provide a lasting legacy of recreation, physical activity, heritage and natural and cultural opportunities for Manitobans and visit ors to the province. The Trans-Canada Trail is a recreational trail linking the three oceans bordering Canada. Once completed, it will be the longest continuous trail in the world, measuring 15,000 kilometres. Manitoba's funding will also provide for the development of spur trails connecting to the main Trans-Canada Trail. *

(1430) The Manitoba Recreational Trail Associa tion has been designated by the Trans-Canada Trail Foundation, in conjunction with local trail associations, to develop Manitoba's

section of the trail. The MRTA is co-ordinating the selection of routes and the locations of pavilions and markers. Manitoba Culture, Heritage and Tourism will work in conjunction with MRT A on this project in order to ensure its success. Thank you. Balanced Budget Legislation Mr. Mervin Tweed (Turtle Mountain): Mr. Speaker, prophecy can be a dangerous thing, and predictions throughout history have been shown to be far off the mark. However, there have been those predictions that have come hauntingly close to fruition.

Today I have the odious task of making my own prophecy in relation to Bill 2, The Balanced Budget, Debt Repayment and Taxpayer Protection Act. Despite a commitment during the election to keep balanced budget legislation, Today's NDP appear to be heading back into their original view put forward in 1995 when this bill was introduced and passed by our government. Back then, the NDP considered this bill to be a political gimmick. They said that it does not correspond with any economic theory known to personkind and called it one of the most dangerous pieces of legislation.

Now Today's NDP ref use to commit themselves to main taining Bil l 2 as it stands without amendment. Granted, and we acknowledge, that they intend to add some provisions in relation to Crown corporations; however, once they open Bill 2, they, not unlike a kid in a candy store, will simply be unable to contain their enthusiasm for wholesale changes, changes that threaten the progress of our province which has been achieved since Bill 2's passage. Mr.

Speaker, I suspect that after the down fall of Today's NDP in four years, Manitobans will find themselves left with not the toughest and most comprehensive balanced budged legislation in Canada but a watered-down shadow of its former self. I suspect Today's NDP will amend the legislation to allow them to do what they do best, run deficits, raise taxes without penalty. Unfortunately, it is the people of Manitoba that will pay for Today's NDP's slide down this slip pery slope. Thank you. Devils Lake Outlet Mr. Gregory Dewar (Selkirk): In 1998 and earlier on this year as well, the NDP caucus

280 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 6, 1999 raised the issue of the proposed outlet for Devils Lake, North Dakota, with the former govern ment. We were concerned about the potential impacts of saline water and foreign organisms from Devils Lake being channelled into the Red River system. The impact on Manitoba fisheries and on natural habitat was seen as potentially devastating. Since that time, regrettably the proposal has moved very quickly. This has effectively revised the Garrison Diversion debate and concerns about interbasin transfer. Upon being elected into office, our Premier (Mr.

Doer) took immediate action on the issue. He flew to Ottawa, and he met with Bill Cl inton and raised the issue with him. Later in October, our Premier led a delegation, with the Minister of Conservation (Mr. Lathlin), to Washington and effectively lobbied against the passage of the North Dakota water resources act which would have granted full funding for the Devils Lake outlet. On November 23, our Premier went to Devils Lake to see the situation first-hand and to raise Manitoba's concerns directly with the Governor of North Dakota and the people of that state.

This government will continue to work in co-operation with the federal government and other stakeholders to protect Manitoba water resources for the future of all Manitobans. Thank you. Winkler, Manitoba Mr. Peter Dyck (Pembina): Today I would like to speak about the Town of Winkler. The town has recently been announced as one of the three short-listed communities for the federal government's Smart Communities Demon stration Project, Manitoba selection.

Under its Smart Communities Demonstration Project, the Government of Canada will be selecting one smart community from each province, one in Canada's North, and one aboriginal community. Each of the communities that is selected will be in line to receive a $5-million matching grant over the next three years. The money is to be used for funding expanded inf ormation and communication technology. *

(1440) This project, which has been dubbed the Winter Mill ennium III project, has two distinct arms. The first is a smart retirement tower that has been planned for the downtown. It will contain seniors' living units and a wellness clinic. The tower is going to be attached to the Winnitoba Mall. The funding from the federal government would be used to develop a centrally linked health monitoring system for the tower. The second of the mille nnium's project arms is a welcome centre. The centre would house a year-round tourism office, a museum and a conference centre.

It would also feature state-of the-art technology to assist in areas like distance education, audio presenta tions and cultural pursuits. An electronic shopping mall featuring Winkler business would also be part of the project. The proposals put forward by Winkler for this project would be most beneficial to the community, and I hope they are successful in implementing them. Both the retirement tower and the welcome centre would be great additions to the town. I would like to congratulate Winkler on this ins ightful plan.

Their placement on the short list is well deserved, and I wish the town all the best in the final selection process taking place this spring. National Day of Remembrance Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): Today, December 6, is Canada's National Day of Remembrance Respecting Violence Against Women. Ten years ago today in Montreal, a gunman ruthlessly took the lives of 14 women at Ecole polytechnique. This morning I had the privilege of attending and taking

part in a ceremony to commemorate this day at Sisler High School. I would like to commend the students and staff at the school for the ceremony this morning and also for commemorating this event every year for the last 10 years. Today they had a white ribbon, candle-lighting ceremony which included a song by students, a dramatic reading, a dance called "Missing You" choreographed by one of the staff and performed by the same

December 6, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 28 1 person, Sofia Constantini, the lighting of a main candle, the lighting of 14 candles, and performance by the Nellie McClung Singers. It is very appropriate that students, both boys and girls, and staff at Sisler High School and elsewhere remember this event, and it is important that all of us dedi cate ourselves, or rededicate ourselves, to eliminating violence against women. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. ORDERS OF THE DAY House Business Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): Mr.

Speaker, I understand there are two agreements, and I am wondering if you could canvass the House to determine if there is leave to proceed on two fronts : No. 1, that the House sit tomorrow, that is Tuesday, from 10 a.m. to 12 noon, to deal with the Throne Speech Debate. The second is the consent to move to Royal Assent on Bill 3 immediately. It is possible we could require report stage and third reading. Mr. Speaker: Is there leave to sit tomorrow morning at I 0 a.m. and to pass Royal Assent today? [agreed] REPORT STAGE Bill 3- The Retail Businesses Holiday Closing Amendment Act Hon.

Becky Barrett (Minister of Labour): move, seconded by the Minister of Industry, Trade and Mines (Ms. Mihychuk), that Bill 3, The Retail Businesses Holiday Closing Amend ment Act, be reported from the Committee on Industrial Relations and concurred in, by leave. Motion agreed to. THIRD READINGS Bill 3-The Retail Businesses Holiday Closing Amendment Act Hon. Jean Friesen (Minister of Intergovern mental Affairs): I move, seconded by the Minister of Conservation (Mr. Lathlin), by leave, that Bill 3, The Retail Busin esses Holiday Closing Amendment Act; Loi modifiant Ia

Loi sur les jours feries dans le commerce de detail, be now read a third time and passed. Motion agreed to. Mr. Speaker: I am advised that His Honour the Lieutenant Governor is about to arrive to grant Royal Assent to Bil l 3, The Retail Businesses Holiday Closing Amendment Act. I am there fore interrupting the proceedings of the House for Royal Assent. ROYAL ASSENT Bill 3- The Retail Businesses Holiday Closing Amendment Act The Acting Deputy Sergeant-at-Arms (Mr. Dennis Huyda): His Honour the Lieutenant Governor.

His Honour, Peter Liba, Lieutenant Governor of the Province of Manitoba, having entered the House and being seated on the throne, Mr. Speaker addressed His Honour the Lieutenant Governor in the following words: *

(1450) Mr. Speaker: May it please Your Honour: The Legislative Assembly, at a special session, passed a bill, which, in the name of the Assembly, I present to Your Honour and to which bill I respectfully request Your Honour's assent. Madam Deputy Clerk (Bev Rosiak): Bill 3, The Retail Businesses Holiday Closin g Amend ment Act; Loi modifiant Ia

Loi sur les jours feries dans le commerce de detail. To this bill the Royal Assent was announced by the Clerk of the Legislative Assembly as follows: Mr. Clerk (William Remnant): In Her Majesty's name, His Honour the Lieutenant Governor doth assent to this bill. His Honour was then pleased to retire.

282 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 6, 1999 THRONE SPEECH DEBATE (Fifth Day of Debate) Mr. Speaker: To resume debate on the proposed motion of the honourable member for St. Vital (Ms. All an) and the amendment thereto moved by the honourable Leader of the Offic ial Opposition (Mr. Fil mon). When this matter was last before the House, the debate was standing in the name of the honourable member for Dauphin-Roblin (Mr. Struthers) who has 36 minutes left. Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin-Roblin): Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for allowing me the opportunity to resume a few comments on the Speech from the Throne.

On Friday, I was speaking and making the comment that the class of 1999 seems to have really been doing a good job of figuring out some of the rules of this place, as a person in the class of '95 who in some instances learned the hard way some of the rules around this Legisla ture and in committee rooms. I am thinking of one time in particular when the member from the former riding of St. James and myself went to learn all about Estimates and ended up asking one question after the next in Rural Developme nt, not really knowing what we were doing, I must admit.

I can admit that now that it is four years ago, but we learned as we went along, and I am sure that many of the members of the class of 1999 will also learn as they go along. Mr. Conrad Santos, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair Another example that I would like to point out for the class of 1999, we can do very powerful things in this Legis lature. We actually can make the clock move ahead. It means speeding the rotation of the whole earth, I realize that, but we can do that in this building.

The first time it happened when I was in this Legis lature, I was sitting and minding my own business, as I usually do around here [interjection] Except when the member for Russell (Mr. Derkach) is involved, then I kind of stick my nose in, but all in fun, of course. But, Mr. Deputy Speaker, we were debating some legislation, and we came to what seemed to be a natural end to the debate. There was about, oh, if I remember correctly, 20 minutes of debate remaining, and somebody got up and decided they were going to call it six o'clock, and I did not know what that meant.

Little did I know that meant I could go home and have a life outside of this building, which on that particular day I remember appreciating very much, but I had to get an explanation from somebody who had been here a little longer than I had at the time. So I want to encourage the class of 1999 to approach any of the returning members of the Legis lature or any of the staff here at the Legislative Building who are very capable to answer any questions.

As a matter of fact, I probably would recommend you talk to the staff before you tum to any of us returning MLAs in case we give you the wrong steer and you end up committing some of the errors that we have made in the past here in the Legislature. I want to offer a welcome, as well, to the returning MLAs, those who were successful in being re-elected to the House. I know that the work that you put in on behalf of your constituents has paid off in your re-election. I, also, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, want to pay particular thanks to those candidates, whether it be from the Lib eral Party or the Conservative Party or the New Democratic Party or any of the other parties in that last election-sometimes I think we tend to forget about those who ran, put forward their ideas, worked hard to represent their parties in constituencies and did not quite make it here to the Legislature . I would hope that they try again, and I wish those candidates all the best in their future runs to get to this Legislature.

It is important that every political party have a group of people, a group of Manitobans who do, in fact, put their names forward, and I encourage Manitobans to keep putting their names forward to run in elections for whichever party they choose, to hopefully one day become members of this Legislature. Mr. Deputy Speaker, this may be an appropriate time for me to acknowledge the career of the Leader of the Of ficial Opposition (Mr.

Filmon), to acknowledge the years that the member for Tuxedo has spent in this Legisla ture representing, in his case, not only the members of his constituency but representing a political

December 6, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 283 party and the people of Manitoba as Premier from 1988 to 1999. No matter which political party you represent in this House, each and every one of us I believe must indicate that the time that any member spends in this House is valuable. The amount of time that the former Premier and his family put forth in representing the people of Manitoba is appreciated, I believe, by Manitobans.

I know, speaking for myself, I appreciate the amount of time the former Premier put into serving Manitoba, and I would like to express on my part my thanks for his involvement in Manitoba politics over the last 11 years. Mr. Deputy Speaker, we are very fortunate I think to be elected to work in the greatest building in the province, greatest not only in terms of its architecture and the meaning of many of the aspects of this building but also the history and the tradition that is involved and that is steeped in this Manitoba Legislature.

If anybody wants to get a lot more detail than what I can give them on the history of this building, I would recommend a tour. Arrange a tour downstairs in Tourist Information, and the staff who are involved in those tours can very much point out the significance of the different architectural and historical points in this building. There are a couple of messages I think that we have to draw from this building. One is a recognition of the hard work of Manitobans to not only construct the building in the first place but construct the laws and the regulations by which we live.

In my mind, there is no underestimation of the value of the work that is done in this building. There is also a warning, I think, that needs to be said about this building. It is the kind of place where if we are not vigi lant at all times, we can become sheltered here. We can lose touch with the people out there in Manitoba who have sent us here to represent them. *

(1500) I would like people to not only marvel at the beauty of the dome that rises at the top of this building, but I would also like you to understand that that dome can act like those domes in the old Maxwell Smart show where the cones of silence would come down over the heads of people, and when the cones came down over top of indiv idual people, the people who were under those cones would yell back and forth at each other. They would say all kinds of things back and forth to each other, and none of them heard what each other was saying. Now, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, I do not want the dome at the top of this building to tum into a cone of silence like what used to be in that Maxwell Smart show back in the 1960s when I was a kid listening to it. It is absolutely incumbent on each and every one of us, all 57 MLAs, to not allow that to happen, to not allow that dome to allow us to yell back and forth at each other in here and never listen to what is going on outside of this Legislative Building.

On the one hand, this is a great place to work, but on the other hand, mainly because it is such a fantastic place to work, we sometimes get too wrapped up in what is happening here and we forget about what is happening outside throughout the rest of Manitoba. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I have been listening very carefully to some of the speeches that have been made in support and some of the speeches criticizing the throne speech that this govern ment presented.

I want it to be absolutely clear that I believe that throne speech was an excellen t presentation of this government's willin gness and this government's commitment to Manitobans.

I think it deserves not only the support of myself as the MLA for Dauphin-Roblin, but I think if members opposite were to objectively look and look carefully at all the good things in that Speech from the Throne, that they, too, would understand that those are the priorities of Manitobans, that what is spelled out in the Speech from the Throne in a clear manner, a clearly understandable fashion that everybody can understand, that is straightforward, that encapsulated the commitments that this govern ment made during the election, that Manitobans agreed with on September 21, then the members across the way, I am sure, if they were to approach this in an unbiased, objective fashion, that they would see that indeed this is a document worthy of their support.

284 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 6, 1999 The criticism, one of the criticisms that I have heard, is that it is too vague. Well, the throne speech is not a document as detailed as a budget. For example, is not as detailed as the Estimates that will be forthcoming from this side of the House, from government ministers on this side of the House. The idea is not to be detailed in a Speech from the Throne. The Speech from the Throne, in practice and through tradition in this House and in other Houses in the British parliamentary system, set in a broad way the general directions of a government.

So why then would the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Filmon) jump up and down and yell and scream about it not being detailed enough? It does exactly what a Speech from the Throne is supposed to do, and it did that in a very straightforward manner. Mr. Deputy Speaker, the speeches that I have heard, comments coming from the other side, do not include the $37 million in SmartHealth that this government tossed out the window. So if members across think that they can sell me a bridge, well, have I got a smart health plan for them.

I want to just pay a little bit of attention to another criticism that was put forward by the Leader of the Opposition in which he referred to all members on our side of the House as tax consumers, consumers of taxes, as opposed to somebody else-he was not quite sure of this, he was kind of vague and lacked detail-but as opposed to somebody else who does not consume taxes but somebody who creates revenue.

Now, the problem with his argument is that, just to take his argument to a logical end in which he asserts that everybody on the government side are tax consumers, then I suppose he speaks with a certain amount of experience, seeing as the salary that he has collected as the MLA for Tuxedo and the huge salary that he has collected as Premier for II years and the pension that the member will colle ct once he leaves this building makes him one of the biggest tax consumers in the province.

So I suppose I, as a teacher and sl:uool principal in the past, should not feel too badly about being called a tax consumer by the Premier, seeing as he has consumed a lot more taxes than what most of us around this Legislature have over the last II years or so. But I think it is un-Manitoban on the part of the Leader of the Opposition to be pointing fingers at not just people on this side of the House but people on both sides, because I do note, and I must say I was very, very impressed by a speech by the former teacher and now member for Fort Garry (Mrs. Smith).

I was very impressed with the speech of the member for Fort Garry when I heard her talk about dealing with special needs kids. I think, judging by that speech, that the member for Fort Garry is worth a lot more than being ref erred to as a tax consumer. I do not even want to get into the argument about those who have married into money to produce, or those who have inherited their parents' businesses and are getting off and are somehow being referred to as tax creators. Now, there are several points that need to be made quickly about the throne speech.

First of all, this throne speech reiterates our commitment to Manitobans to fix up the mess in health care that this government left behind. This throne speech very clearly indicates our support for nurses, our commitment to ridding Manitobans of hallway medicine. It looks at rural health issues like emergency medical services and dialysis and rural doctors and probably now, eventually, after many years of not looking at prevention, we are going to take a serious look at preventing Manitobans from becoming sick before they end up in our health care system.

The last point that I want to talk about just briefly is education. One of the biggest problems with the education system over the last II years comes on the funding side, partly but not so much the amount of funding but the predictability of funding. As someone who is responsible for a budget at a school when I was a school principal, the part of the whole funding puzzle that bugged me the most was that I could not make any kind of long-term decisions when it came to funding because I could not trust the Education minister to give a figure, to give an education amount-[interjection] * (ISIO )

December 6, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 285 When I was the principal of the school at Rorketon, the member for Russell (Mr. Derkach) was the Minister of Education followed by the former member for Fort Garry and the former minister, Mr. Clayton Manness, formerly representing Morris. I could not trust those people to make decisions that were good for our school and then stick to them. The one thing that was sure was that there was always a decrease in the amount of funding. We did not know from one year to the next just where it was going to be. You cannot have schools operate on that basis.

Just to wrap up, I am very pleased that I have been given this opportunity to put my support behind the Speech from the Throne, and I look forward to voting in the same way that I have just indicated. So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, thank you very much. Mr. Ron Schuler (Springfield): Mr. Deputy Speaker, it is a privilege to be here today and to offer a few thoughts on the throne speech. This is my second opportunity to be able to speak in the House. The first one was on the ag debate. I would like to extend congratulations to the new Speaker.

I know that he will find the job to be an interesting and challenging position, and I would like to congratulate you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, and we look forward to working with you over the years. I would also like to welcome the six new pages and wish them well as they gain valuable first-hand exposure to the Manitoba political process. To our retiring Clerk, who is not in the Chamber right now, I would like to say all the best in your future endeavours and thank you for so capably interpreting the rules of this House. I do not know how we will ever replace someone by the name of Binx Remnant.

In fact, during my swearing in ceremony, my nieces came up, and they said: you know, only somebody by the name of Binx Remnant could work in the Legislature. They just found him most intriguing. To the other newly elected members and seasoned veterans, I look forward to working with you all. As a newly elected member, I am honoured to be here and would like to extend my thanks to the residents of Springfield for electing me as their MLA. I would just like to state for the record that the Springfield constituency is a little bit of a misnomer, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, in that it actually comprises two rural munici palities, the R.M. of East St. Paul and the R.M. of Springfield. The next time we have the opportunity, I would like it reflected as such. It is a large area and it actually spans suburban and rural, and I have gotten to know it well. I again would like to thank the residents for electing me as their MLA. I have extremely large shoes to fill as my predecessor Glen Findlay and his wife, Kay, were wonderful representatives for the constituency. I will try to offer the same reasoned approach to politics that Mr. Findlay so ably provided.

As I canvassed my constituency during the election, I found that I had a friend alongside with me as I went door to door. Most of the people knew of my friend, and all of those who knew him had a very good impression of him. He had left a very strong mark with them. You know, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that friend was Glen Findlay. I would like to thank him for the reputation and for the stella r standing he took in the community, and I found that out when I was going door to door.

I come to a new position as a member of the Legislative Assembly with some experience that I am sure will prove extremely valuable as I perform my duties. I have had the privilege of being a businessman, and some nine years ago my wife and I started a small import business. We ran some ads and sent out some catalogues which has now ended up being an almost full time business, certainly leading up to the Christmas, and then we decided to get in a little bit deeper. We opened up two businesses at The Forks: Christmas Traditions at the Forks and Espresso Junction at The Forks.

I have a partner, and he and I came up with the concept and went through with the tenant improvements and started up business. It is probably best if you do not know what you are getting into when you get into it, because you do not see all the mistakes you are going to make, and we certainly made our share of them. We have had a lot of fun. We have been able to

286 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 6, 1999 serve a lot of Manitobans. One of the joys that I have had is because The Forks is so central to Winnipeg, it tends to be a place where people bring guests and relatives and friends from out of town. The amount of people that I have gotten to meet and we have got to know is just phenomenal. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I actually do not think I met a resident from out of town who did not have kind things to say about Winnipeg and our province. Often people would say-I will not say from where they came.

They would say: wow, we did not know there would be this modern city. I do not know what they expected, but- An Honourable Member: They are people from Brandon. Mr. Schuler: Actually, Mr. Deputy Speaker, the honourable member for Brandon (Mr. Smith) made some comments. I have to tell you that the citizens of Brandon have been great supporters of my business, and I thank them greatly. I certainly appreciate the support I have gotten from all areas of the province and from across the country. We certainly have gotten to know a lot of people. We have built a lot of relationships.

I find a lot of people like to come to Winnipeg. They like the people. They like the friendliness. They like what there is to see. Frankly, they like the shopping. So the private sector has certainly been a place where I feel very comfortable. Business with all its challenges and its ups and downs has done very well for myself and my family, and I would like to thank Winnipeg and Manitoba for these opportunities.

I also had the privilege of being elected as a school trustee in the River East School Division, and I know this whole House will agree with me that River East School Division is the best school division in the province and probably the best school division in the country. I know this House will certainly agree with me on that position. I was elected-my first time-and then I was re-elected just recently. I got to learn what politics was all about. I was taught how to learn how to count when it came to votes. As one of the trustees so aptly put it, there are nine trustees, always count, it takes five.

We learned that very quickly and within three years, actually, after the third year I became chairman of the board, and I enjoyed my time as a school trustee. We did make difficult decisions. Probably one of the hardest things, and the hardest learned lesson, Mr. Deputy Speaker, was when you are dealing with the public. Even if you are making a courageous decision, a tough decision, an unpopular decision, be open and aboveboard with the public. I know we had to close down McLeod School. It just was not viable, and we made the error of making the decision in camera and coming out with a decision.

It was the right decision, but it was not the right way of doing it. It was certainly a learning experience for myself and has been an experience that I have been able to carry over through all the rest of my years that I served on the board, in that, be transparent. You know, be open about the decisions you make. It bodes you well. *

(1520) I would like to go on and speak a little bit about my constituency. I am very pleased to be the representative for the Springfield con stituency, which offers a unique blend of rural and urban interests. For all the MLAs and listeners today, I would encourage all the members of this House to pay a visit to my constituency, for it is home to a number of popular attractions. One of these is the Dugald Costume Museum. I know everybody has been there many times. It is a wonderful place to be. It is unique in North America.

The seasonal displ ay of men's and women's and children's clothing is presented in a tableau viva nt, or livi ng-picture style. The collection of over 35,0 00 artifacts spans some 400 years. A pioneer home, circa 1886, is open daily during the summer months for interpretative tours. The Victorian-style tearoom serves cream tea, and they usually have some crumpets or something. For those of you who want to take a little drive and visit real good country, come out to Springfield country and have some tea and crumpets in the summer. I know Stan is just waiting.

It is the first time he has heard about it and he is going to rush out next summer. It is worth the trip to Springfield by the way, Stan.

December 6, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 287 Another well -known attraction is the Cooks Creek Heritage Museum. If you have not been down in the Cooks Creek area, you have to go. The grotto is just something else to see. You know, I do not think you can really believe it until you have seen it. It is such a unique exhibition and a history behind it. This whole area features Slavic and religious artifacts, a carpenter shop, blacksmith and farm machines, pioneer homes. Then they also have a celebration in the summer called the Cooks Creek Heritage Days celebrations.

I would caution everybody, because when you go, and of course all of you are going to want to come, come a little bit earlier, Mr. Deputy Speaker, because I will tell you parking is a premium. It is so popular. It is a great time to come out with your children. It is very much a family-friendly kind of a thing and the food is just unbelievable. Really, I mean the value you get. There is nothing like a good sausage and varenycky or perogies. Just outstanding, and I recommend it highly to you. Perhaps the best and most well-known attraction in the Springfield constituency is Birds Hill Provincial Park.

It features hills and ridges formed by ancient glaciers. Birds Hill Provincial Park has a lake, oak and aspen forests, native prame wildflowers, deer, waterfowl and songbirds. Facilities include camping, swim ming, hiking, cycling and skiing trails, picnic sites, a riding stable, a restaurant, a beach concession and a convenience store. This past summer, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Birds Hill Park was the site for some of the excitement of the 1999 Pan Am Games.

The triathlon, equestrian, cycling and roller sport events were held in the park as part of the celebration of sports, and I know the events were a great success. I personally took

part in going to a lot of the games. There is one thing about cheering for a professional team and there is another thing about cheering for your own country's teams. That was when I really found the difference and it was so exciting to be there. I will not go any further on that, but just to be at some of these Games, and I know the Games at Birds Hill Park were just outsta nding. The legacy of the Pan Am Games live on, thanks to park enhancements that include a revitalized lake, new sand, a beach safety program, landscaping and development of more beach day-use areas. Again, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, I would urge you to come out to the Springfield constituency and see what is new and improved in this wonderful park. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I would now like to add my voice to this Throne Speech Debate, and as I told one of my col leagues, I always feel like I should call it the throne whisper debate, and put a few words on the record about the new administration's pronouncements or lack thereof. Governing the province requires a sound game plan, and I am afraid the throne speech makes it abundantly clear that, alas, our new government does not have a game plan.

The NDP's pre-election commitment to balanced budgets and tax relief was put to the test during the throne speech, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Anything short of a steadfast pledge to avoid red ink in '99-2000 unfortunately confirm suspicions that this new administration is going to be soft on deficits. Yes, they are going soft. The new government can only enjoy the confidence of Manitoba taxpayers by commit ting to rein in the spending, balancing the books and providing tax relief. The new administration must be willing to commit to the promises it made before and during the election.

For example, in response to a Canadian Taxpayers Federation letter to the new Premier in October, '99, the First Minister (Mr. Doer) acknowledged that "Manitobans clearly voted for strong health care and education systems as well as for tax relief." It is unfortunate that the throne whisper did not echo the Premier's (Mr. Doer) remarks and commit to a balanced budget and competitive taxes. This new administration was elected to fulfill a series of promises it made to Manitobans during the recent election.

Among these was a much-vaunted commitment to balanced budgets and to managing Manitoba's economy in a fiscally responsible manner. I find it most disturbing that a mere two months later into their mandate they are already on the verge of breaking this most important election promise and in tum of mortgaging the province's financial future.

288 LEGI SLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 6, 1999 During the spring session of this Legislature, Today's NDP, having seen the light of fiscal responsibility, supported the previous adminis tration's balanced budget, knowing that it was best for the province. During the recent election, Today's NDP ran on a platform where they promised to maintain the balanced budget legislation and not run a deficit. Manitoba's tough balanced budget legislation had already worked for four years, and the NDP vowed to make it part of their game plan, to make it five years.

Unfortunately, this commitment now seems to be missing from the playbook. Alas, Manitoba's expectations are all too quickly being dashed by the new administration. The Finance minister has outlined a plan to lower the deficit but does not appear committed to erasing it. Frankly, the obligation to balance the budget falls on the shoulders of the government in power. Running a deficit when it is not necessary will not inspire public confidence in the managerial skills of the new administration.

This lack of confidence will quickly move beyond the concerns being raised by Manitobans to encompass bond-rating agencies, business investors and the like and will threaten Manitoba's economic well-being. The new administration must stop crying wolf over a perceived deficit and go about the business of managing the province's finances in a fiscally responsible manner. That is what they were elected to do. So does Today's NDP not have a definite plan to manage the province? Alas, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I think not. As opposition members, we intend to be vigi lant.

We will continue to keep a close eye on the province's finances. We will press for controlled spending and tax relief for all Manitobans. In no way should the NDP electoral victory be mistaken as a province-wide rejection of tax relief. Manitobans want and expect tax cuts. There is a tax gap with other provinces, and the new administration must take steps to address it in order to make sure Manitoba remains competitive with other jurisdictions. As a businessman I have grave concerns about the throne speech and its lack of attention to the provincial economy.

My family and I operate a business that sells merchandise relating to Christmas. So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I am going to use an analogy that, yes, I think even the members on the other side will be able to understand. I will lay it out very simply about how I think the finances should be administered. Laying the roots for a healthy provincial economy is not unlike that of the tree grower tending to his plot of Christmas trees. In this case the inputs are not fertile soil, regular watering and disease checks. However, the basic growing procedures are the same.

The fertile environment necessary for the creation of a sound provincial economy includes one in which the province's finances are managed in a fiscally responsible manner. Stan, are you listening? The environment is also one in which the government's sound fiscal policies attract a wide variety of businesses. industry and inve stors to consider investing in the province. One could call these inputs the fertilizer required for sustainable growth. *

(1530) The healthy economic environment is further nurtured by the province's politicians bringing forward balanced budgets and a taxation system that does not act as a deterrent to further growth and development. The resulting strong and diversified economy is not unlike that of the healthy Christmas tree sending out a stable root system. You could say in both cases that the strong base, either economic or root system, will protect both the economy and the tree during times of economic downturn or drought, whichever the case may be.

Once the tree and the economy have been nurtured, they can be built upon further. In the case of the former, the tree is cut down and the trimming begins. Lights are strung and ornaments carefully added. Caution is taken not to add ornaments that the tree's branches cannot withstand. If candles are used to light the tree, they are diligently tended to ensure the tree does not bum down. The tree is watered regularly to make sure the needles do not drop off in an untimely fashion. In this way

December 6, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 289 the integrity and the beauty of the Christmas tree are preserved for as long as possible. Similarly, the provincial economy must also be carefully tended to, to ensure its brilliance and longevity. The taxation environment must be conducive to employers and employees alike. Balanced budgets, like carefully placed Christmas tree ornaments, will ensure that the province's finances are well managed.

Careful economic management will help ensure that the province's debt is paid of f in a timely manner, thereby freeing up needed resources for future economic development. The province's resources, like the needles of the Christmas tree, must be managed with an eye to sustainable development. Potentially combustible threats to the provincial economy, such as successive unbalanced budgets and costly deficit financing, must be extinguished before they can be allowed to threaten the economy.

By following these simple but logical plans, we can not only enjoy the beauty of the Christmas tree but also the vitality that has come to permeate the Manitoba economy in recent years. I hope that Today's NDP will take a lesson from the Christmas tree growers and nurture our provincial economy in an equally responsible manner. I have a number of concerns with the throne speech that I would like to address. I note with interest in your throne speech that you state, thanks to our elders and ancestors, they have a strong base on which to build.

Yes, it is important that you acknowledge the sound economic management tools utilized by the previous administration. Today Manitoba is one of the strongest economies in the country, enjoying a diversified business and industrial base and one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country. Manitoba's fine economic standing is in no small part due to the sound fiscal policies expounded under the previous administration. You would do well to follow our lead and to create an economic environment conducive to having a wide variety of businesses grow and prosper.

Thanks to the strong and progressive fiscal policies put in place by the previous government, the Manitoba economy has never been in better shape. As an MLA who represents both rural and urban constituents, I was disturbed by the lack of recognition of the needs of rural Manitobans in the throne speech. There are only two references to 1 ural Manitoba in the entire speech. Given the crisis facing our agricultural producers-several days ago we had a debate on that-and the impact it has had on our rural communities, this brevity speaks volumes.

Similarly, the throne speech contains only one reference to the issues facing both downtown Winnipeg and downtown Brandon. Just as we rely on a healthy rural economy, we also must rely on a healthy urban environment. Both sectors must be vibrant in order for the provincial economy to prosper. Does the new administration have no concept of the work that lies ahead of them in balancing rural and urban interests, knowing that the two sectors' economic interests are deeply ent wined?

The decision to combine the Rural Development and Urban Affairs departments into one department is bound to have a negative impact on one or both of these sectors. I am pleased to see that the Premier (Mr. Doer) and the Finance minis ter (Mr. Selinger) are finally calling the report from Deloitte and Touche what it actually is, a financial review. It is not an audit of the government of Manitoba or any of its entities. Fortunately, you have both given up the misleading notion that the Delo itte and Touche document is an audit.

Manitobans clearly know the difference between a review and an audit, and they want the new administration to live up to the commitment of the previous administration and indeed your own election promise. They want your adminis tration not only to balance the '99-2000 budget but also to balance all future budgets. They want you to continue paying down the province's debt, a debt that continues to hamper the full development of our province's economy potential.

I note with interest in the throne speech that the current administration mentions that Manitobans voted for improvements in the basic services that government provides and for

290 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 6, 1999 sustainable tax reduction other than a continuation of the 1.5 percent tax reduction and personal income tax announced in the previous administration's '99-2000 budget. There is no further mention of immediate tax reduction. Manitobans are expecting tax cuts, but you have not given any real indication in your throne speech of your ongoing commitment to tax cuts and how you plan to achieve that. Does Today's NDP have no definite plan to put more money into Manitoban taxpayers' pockets?

You say in the throne speech that your government is committed to future reductions to property and small-business taxes. I know first hand that the small-business person plays a critical role in the Manitoba economy by helping to diversify our economic base and by employing thousands of Manitobans. A case in point would be Workers Com pensation. When I got into business some seven years ago, I was paying about $1 ,200 fees for Workers Compensation. Thank goodness that the Conservative government took the old Workers Compensation in hand and cl eaned it up to the point that this year I was paying some $260.

That is a major reduction in the cost to my business, $1 ,200 all the way down to $260, and that is just one of my businesses. It is very important that these kinds of things be looked at, tax relief, and that we do not have the kind of Workers Compensation Board that we had 1 0 or 15 years ago. That is so hard on small business. I look forward to seeing you fulfill this commitment. I only hope that you will do it quickly and efficiently. As a former school trustee with the River East School Division and as a parent, I was especially interested in the portions in the throne speech pertaining to education.

Today's NDP has vowed to build a modem, responsive education system that will prepare our youth for the challenges of the new economy, but already contradictions are appearing in your plans for the province's education system. Immediately upon assuming power, your government ordered the removal of the Youth News Network from Manitoba schools. The YNN system provides approximately $200,000 in technological resources to schools that sign up. Does the new administration have any intention of making up the lost revenue?

On the YNN, I know at River East School Divisio n, when we started to discuss the whole issue, we debated it as a board and we thought probably it would be best to proceed with it and try to leave the ideological basis out of the discussion. You know, if we are going to fear anything that is new, we would never have had flight, we would never have had the automobile, we would never have tried anything new.

I am not saying YNN is the best thing, but what we wanted to do was bring it in and have a fair and open dialogue within our school division to allow students, to allow the parents, to allow our teachers, our administration, the public, to have an input. What the current government has done is cut all that off at the knees. I think that was very untimely. I know it probably played very well for politics.

But for those school divisions that were going on the six-month trial period and wanted to see what effect it was, trying to see what good might come of it, and perhaps there was not going to be any good in which case you would take the six-month window and you would get out, at least give it that opportunity, at least put your ideology aside, at least not play politics with it and just let it go through. *

(1540) Unfortunately, it does not look like the current government will come to its senses and just allow the boards to have that autonomy to deal with that particular issue. That concerns me greatly. It would appear that the new adminis tration is not interested in public private ventures. It would appear that they are not interested in allowing school boards the autonomy to make decisions that they were elected to make in the interests of their divisions. School boards, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, must have the right to make decisions about what is best for their indiv idual divisions and to respond to the needs of the electorate that put them into office. The new Minister of Education (Mr. Caldwell) does not appear to be interested in allowing school boards to make their own decisions. Given that, can we count on a series

December 6, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 291 of weekly directives from his department as to how education will be administered in Manitoba? Do Manitobans want to be sub jugated to management by memos? We have seen that in several instances, YNN was one of them, and even the Grade 3 exam which I have great concerns that it was so quickly cancelled. I know in our division, we used it as a means to find out where we were having difficulty in our elementary level. I am just going to take a moment here, I am glad the Minister of Education is present.

What we found out was we would take the exam at the end of Grade 3, and those students would move on to Grade 4. Where we found that we had difficulty, we had several classes where they absolutely bombed in a particular field or in some cases all fields. What it allowed us to do was take the summer and go back and say, now, why did they perform so poorly as a class? Often it was a teacher had taken ill or taken leave, perhaps there were one or two or three substitute teachers, and there was not that continuity of education coming to the students.

What it allowed, for instance, River East School Division has about a $75-million budget. You have some room within which to move your money and we could put much needed resources into those classrooms, we would catch them at Grade 4. Now, without that mechanism there and if you go with a Grade 6 exam, what happens is you might still find that the class, say, in Grade 3 had a bad year. By the time they get to Grade 6, they are still struggling. After Grade 6 they graduate, you cannot catch them as a group anymore once they have moved into Grade 7.

That is where we found the Grade 3 exam and maybe the politics of it just took overhand to the point where there was not that reasoned discussion anymore, but I wish the minister would have taken a bit more reflection in that, because it was a really good tool for school boards to decide where to put that funding. You know, we have students at risk, early reading, and all those kinds of programs, and where do we focus those monies? Because just to throw it out as a blanket is not really a good enough approach, but getting them at Grade 3 sort of gives us an indication where they were.

Then at Grade 6 again, I would repeat and for the minister's benefit, the problem with Grade 6 is a lot of parents then decide after Grade 6 either private school or they go to different junior high schools and so forth, and then it is very difficult to catch them. I would tell people during the election, you know, not having a Grade 3 exam and allowing those students to continue to go through is basically condemning those students to mediocrity because once they have hit Grade 7 they are so dispersed, and it is very difficult to hone in and try to find those students again. So, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, that was a little bit of a sidebar, and I am glad I have had the chance to explain my points to the Minister of Education (Mr. Caldwell). You also state in the throne speech that your administration will ftrovide stable and pre dictable investments in our public schools. We have repeatedly asked your administration in Question Period to explain how you intend to provide funding for our public schools; however, we have yet to hear a definitive plan of how you intend to finance schools.

I will be most interested to hear your explanation of how you will be "providing increased funding in accord with the rate of economic growth." How do you intend to define economic growth, and how will this be translated into funding for our schools? Should the province experience a recession and face negative economic growth, does that mean you intend to cut education funding accordingly? Your administration is also committed to making post-secondary education more afford able.

Again, we have had a hodgepodge of answers in this House during Question Period, when we have tried to get your administration to define how you will make university and college education more affordable for Manitoba students. Are you going to provide a tuition rebate as some of your members have said, or are you going to offer a tuition cut? If you offer students a tuition rebate, will anything be done to prevent Manitoba's colleges and universities from hiking tuition and in turn wiping out any gains that students may have made?

Manitoba's students deserve to know what your intentions are when it comes to financing

292 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 6, 1999 post-secondary education. Does Today's NDP have any definitive plans as to when these changes might be implemented? During the election and in the throne speech, Today's NDP talked about doubling colle ge spaces in Manitoba over the next five years. Again we have heard no definitive plans from your administration as to how this province will be implemented. I agree it is important that we examine the variety of post-secondary training opportunities available to Manitobans.

We have to make sure our citizens are competitive in an increasingly competitive global economy. I will be most interested to hear a detailed plan of how college spaces will be doubled. Where will the funding for this expansion come from? Will new infrastructure be required? Can you find enough instructors to teach the new courses offered? These are but a few questions that need to be answered, so that we can ensure Manitoba's colle ge and universit y students continue to be well served by their education system . Mr. Deputy Speaker, as the opposition critic for Labour, I took particular interest in the same

section of the throne speech pertaining to labour issues. I note that you have committed to "an annual review of the minimum wage." What will this review entail and how does this new administration plan to implement changes to the minimum wage? Again, Mr. Deputy Speaker, mindful of the time, I would like to say to the Minister of Labour (Ms. Barrett), you know, reviewing the minimum wage is not necessarily something that small business has a problem with, but perhaps every year is a little bit excessive.

I would like to spend some time with the minister perhaps at another date, explain to her how difficult that is, that it is a very careful balance when you are in small business. A lot of the employment tends to happen at Christmastime which can really bring up your cost of business. and I would urge the minis ter to take great caution when she starts playing with the minimum wage, particularly when they are talking about a yearly review. With extreme caution I would recommend they proceed with this.

Will there be consultations not only with labour, but also with the business community to arrive at reasonable schedules of changes to the minimum wage? I know that many business people were particularly concerned by the inclusion of a minimum wage review in the throne speech and require clarification from the government, and when will this clarification be coming? I would suggest to the minister, you might have all the answers and you might know what your plan is, but that does not necessarily relate to the business sector, and perhaps a bit of communication to small business would be a good idea. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, I know that the purpose of the Department of Labour is the promotion of saf ety, health and fair and equitable treatment in the workplace, the enhancement of public saf ety, the fostering of a stable labour relations climate, the support of workplace training and adjustment. I look forward to working with the new Labour minister to ensure that Manitobans, employers and employees alike, are treated fairly when it comes to labour issues.

In fact, I look forward to working with my colleagues on both sides of the House to ensure that Manitoba's economy continues to grow and prosper, that our growth will continue to make Manitoba one of the best provinces in which to live, work and to raise our families, as my wife, Tanya, and I are currently doing. My only hope is that Today's NDP will start to define what definitive plans they have for running this province.

In the past few weeks, I have heard much rhetoric from Today's NDP but not a lot of substance on issues such as running our schools, balancing the books or charting a direction to ensure the economy continues to thrive. Does Today's NDP have a plan? Does Today's NDP have a vision, and does it have the concrete leadership needed to follow up on its plans? *

(1550) It is very easy to spend years in opposition being followers, trying to dovetail off the sound economic policies expounded by the previous Progressive Conservative administration. You are no longer in a position to follow. You must lead and you must lead this province well. We have seen where previous NDP administrations

December 6, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 293 have taken this province. They have taken it straight down the road to economic purgatory where future administrations are damned to deficit financing and rebuilding the economy from the ground up. If Today's NDP are indeed committed to leading, let us hope they follow the solid leadership skills provided by the previous Progressive Conservative administration and not follow the misguided lead provided by their NDP brethren in administrations past. If you choose to mimic the policies of past NDP administrations, you are doomed to fail.

Manitobans expect better and will demand it of you. I hope you are prepared to listen, to come up with some definitive plans as to how you will manage this province and provide for future development. Mr. Deputy Speaker, thank you for this opportunity to respond to the throne speech. Mr. Cris Aglugub (The Maples): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I wish to begin my speech in this Chamber by adding my voice of congratulations to the election of the Speaker of the Assembly, the Honourable George Hickes.

As a new member, I know his guidance, wisdom and assistance will be of great help to me and to the many new members, especially in our caucus. I am sure his tasks will be a challenge, but I am certain he will do very well. I congratulate you also, Mr. Deputy Speaker, as the member for Well ington, for being appointed as the Deputy Speaker of the House, and I look forward to your guidance as well. I would like to congratulate all newly elected members, my colleagues and members from all parties who were successful in their election or re-election bid.

I would like to offer my thanks to the Clerk's office, the constituency allowance office for their informative sessions and the caucus's staff for preparing new members for the new surroundings and to assume our roles and indiv idual tasks. Mr. Deputy Speaker, this being my first speech, it is a very special day for me as an elected NDP member representing The Maples. Thirty years ago, one month and 24 days, including today, I arrived in Winnipeg full of expectations, apprehensions and excitement. It was windy, raining and cold like today.

In the car, I asked my sister who picked me up at the airport: how are we going to sleep in this cold weather? She answered me: homes are heated, warm and comfortable when inside. You see, everything was new to me. A couple of weeks later I woke up one morning. I knew it was still dark, but looking out the windows, somehow it was unusually bright. So I got up quick, opened the curtain and saw everything was white. I immediately went to wake up my sister and told her that the sky is falling in bits and pieces. She did not even bother to look. She only told me: oh, that is snow; go back to bed; go back to sleep.

Do you not listen to the weather forecast? The forecast was for a heavy snowfall. You see, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I had never actually seen snow before. I saw it in pictures and movies. My kind of weather I left behind is 30 degrees above and it is warm. That morning I did not go back to bed, but I went out to feel what snow is all about and what a day it was. During my first few months, I began to look for a job. In my job hunting I started to meet a few people who until today have remained my loyal friends. Six months later I still had not found a job and began facing toward the Philippines.

I was ready to pack my bags and head back. One morning I said to myself, God, if I cannot find a job for another month, definitely I will go back to Manila. I told my sister about my plans, and she again said to me: keep warm and comf ortable, be patient. There are lots of jobs out there. A couple of weeks later and a couple of prayers, I found my first job, not the best job, but I got a job, and I have never been unemployed since. I went on to work for a couple of more companies. Each time it got better until I got a job with the Department of Agriculture, where I worked the longest.

Last summer I was recognized for my 25 years of service with the Department of Agriculture. I was presented with a plaque of loyalty and dedication signed by the then Premier of the day, the Honourable Gary Film on.

294 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 6, 1999 When I was young, my dad and I were having a refreshing drink of coconut juice. We were talking about things around the farm. He was bra gging about one of his horses galloping nicely whenever he was going horse riding. He continued to brag about a few more things and all of a sudden he asked me, son, what would you like to be? I replied, well, what would you like me to be? There is not much to do around here, cultivate the field, plant the com, harvest the com, feed the animals and start all over again. What would you want me to be?

Then he said, son, remember this: start making dreams. Dream big dreams and follow those dreams. Personally I said, oh, okay, and so I started making dreams, huge dreams. I dreamt about going to college, finish a degree, get a job, go abroad, travel and perhaps become a politician one day. You see, Mr. Deputy Speaker, my dad was also a politician. He was a vice-mayor in our home town, and we are just like friends. A couple of weeks later, my dad and I went to Manila and little did I know he was going to enroll me in an agricultural school. And so, I concentrated on my studies.

After completing my degree in Agriculture, I immediately went to work in a big coconut plantation about 600 miles south of Manila. I worked in the plantation for a couple of years, and while I was there I put in an application to emigrate to Canada. Fortunately my application was approved, and I was ready to go abroad. I was beginning to see my dreams coming to reality. My dream to travel and see the world is still a little bit short, but I have plenty of time to make up for it.

My dream as a politicia n, I thought, was forever to remain only a dream, but on September 21 my dream of becoming a politician became a reality. My home town in the Philippines, where I maintain contact and plenty of relatives, was full of joy and pride when they learned of my success. The night of the election I phoned my mother who is over 80 years old. She was so excited she ended up in a hospital that same evening. An Honourable Member: Is she okay? Mr. Aglugub: Yes, she is okay. If my Dad was still alive today, I am sure he would be the proudest dad in my home town.

My brothers and my sisters, who also encouraged me throughout, and my children, were equally full of joy. My friends and volunteers were beaming with pride for the win. *

(1600) My dreams were just like a movie. The next setting this time was The Maples. I was the lead actor and my friends and campaign volunteers were all extras, my extras. So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I would like to pay tribute to one person who put the script together and played a background role in my dream, and that is Les Crisostomo, who is also up there listening to me. He is the one person who, when enthusiasm and determination is low, would be the one to motivate me and encourage me. He had the answer to every question I asked. He and Mrs.

Arnie Crisostomo played a key role in making the decision to go for it up to the last hour. The cast of over a hundred friends from several parts of the city, they all played their role very well, and indeed they all deserve indiv idual praise, for which I will always be grateful. In fact, some of them are listening to me today. As I speak they are in the gallery, and I would like to recognize them. They are Pat Tobias, Joseph Rodriguez, Pablo Dizor and Vincent Ball esteros. Winnipeg, Manitoba, has always been good to me. It has been my home for the last 30 years. People in Winnipeg are warm and friendly.

I feel at home all the time as I feel at ease in this Chamber, but as you can see I am a little nervous. The slogan on our car registration plates is absolutely correct. Friendly Manitoba. It is an attribute to cherish, and we should at all cost protect that image because it is true. Mr. Deputy Speaker, this is a very special moment for me in history. I get to deliver this inaugural speech and I have good attention from the House. I am really proud of myself today. I am fully aware of the expectations of me.

I intend to be a good member of the Legislative Assembly representing The Maples, just like my immediate predecessor, the former Honourable Gary Kowalski, who represented the con stituency with honour and distinction but decided not to run again after serving a couple of terms. The people in The Maples have nothing

December 6, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 295 but praise and good words for the work he has done in the constituency. He has indeed looked after the constituents well. For the record, I would like to commend him for all the initiatives that he instituted to allevia te some of the concerns of The Maples. I can only hope to carry from where he left off, and would like to do a bit more. I would also like to thank the people of The Maples for electing me to hold this public office. It is an honour to be given this opportunity.

I feel privileged, given the confidence of my party and the community of The Maples, as a participant in the democratic process. I assure all those who have placed their trust in me, I will work to the best that I am able to carry on with vigorous determination. Mr. Deputy Speaker, The Maples is a diversified constituency made up of a number of linguistic groups consisting of younger families, working families, hardworking people of various income levels and retired families. It is a mosaic of newcomers to Canada and to Manitoba along with the more established ones.

It is a young community under the newly adjusted electoral boundaries. There is a strong sense of com munity and belonging. The constituency starts from Inks ter in the south, is bounded by McPhillips Street on the east towards the Perimeter Highway, and the western side is Mandalay Drive to Jef ferson through Dunham and connects to Ritchie towards the Perimeter Highway. There is low-income housing in the area. There are also sprinklings of retired homeowners who are enjoying the investments of their many years of work.

The Wellness Instit ute is located in the constituency beside the Seven Oaks General Hospital. There are nursing homes, guest homes, the St. Joseph's nursing home and retirement housing with all the amenities located at Leila A venue. There is an independent living housing located at Watson Street for the handicapped. The western side of McPhillips is lined with some retail businesses, grocery stores, restaurants, a hotel and car dealership. The Maples has several elementary schools: Arthur E. Wright, Elwick, Ecole James Nisbet Community School and the O.V. Jewitt School.

There are two junior highs: Ecole Leila North and Ken Seaford High. Maples Collegia te is the only high school that serves the area. In terms of recreational facilities, The Maples has a City of Winnipeg swimming pool, a community centre and a multiplex used extensively during the Pan Am Games. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I look forward to working with the community and community groups. I have opened a constituency office on Kingsbury A venue to provide the important function of providing my constituents with easy access to me.

I dedicate myself to using my skills and abilities to achieve what is best for my constituents and for the good of all Manitobans. I hope to serve the community as I learn my new role as a politician making laws, about the process and how this affects my function. I hope to bring to this Assembly a unique perspective coming from a visible minority. I bring with me my vol untary and community experiences having served as president of the Philippine Association of Manitoba and several other organizations.

I established the first Philippine Centre, the first in Manitoba, the first across Canada, and a daycare facility that is still operating today. I also served in different capacities, including the membership of the Mayor's Race Relations Committee in 1986, a past delegate and interpreter for the Language Bank of the Citizenship Council of Manitoba, a delegate to the Asia-Pacific conference, com monly called APEC, to a preplanning conference held in Manila in 1996, to name a few.

I facilitated the twinning arrangement between the city of Winnipeg and the twinning in Manila, the twinning arrangement between the University of Manitoba and the university of the city of Manila and, yes, I also volunteered for the successful Pan Am Games last summer. In The Maples, there is quite a handful of concerns in the community. Foremost are the state of our health care system, high or rising taxes, public safety, and many others. In my canvass during the campaign, a couple of households have expressed to me how the health

296 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 6, 1999 care system has failed them. One was crying to me at the door, and she said to me if only her husband was properly cared for, he would have

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	37-1-9
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	37th 1st hansardpdf 9.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	58ffda56a8bfb5460b92b9e46181bec12aa3ddbb

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