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March 5, 2013

40th Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2013-Mar-05 (PDF)

L009 - Tue 5 Mar 2013 / Mar 5 mar 2013

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Tuesday 5 March 2013 Mardi 5 mars 2013

ORDERS OF THE DAY

AMBULANCE AMENDMENT ACT

(AIR AMBULANCES), 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 MODIFIANT

LA

LOI SUR LES AMBULANCES

(SERVICES D’AMBULANCE AÉRIENS)

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

MEMBERS’ PRIVILEGES

ORAL QUESTIONS

ARBITRATION

ARBITRATION

HOME CARE

HEALTH CARE FUNDING

AIR AMBULANCE SERVICE

AUTOMOBILE INSURANCE

BRAIN RESEARCH

POWER PLANTS

CASINOS

FAMILY CAREGIVER LEAVE

POWER PLANTS

HEALTH CARE FUNDING

POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION

ELECTRONIC HEALTH INFORMATION

EDUCATION FUNDING

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS

ASSISTANCE TO FARMERS

HAMILTON SPECIAL OLYMPICS SKATING CLUB

CONSUMER PROTECTION

BREAST CANCER

DIMITRA DASKALOS

JEAN FRASER

TAXATION

DISASTER RELIEF FOR CONMEE

WIND TURBINES

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

TAXPAYER PROTECTION

AMENDMENT ACT, 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 MODIFIANT

LA

LOI SUR LA PROTECTION

DES CONTRIBUABLES

RESPECT FOR MUNICIPALITIES ACT

(CITY OF TORONTO), 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 SUR LE RESPECT

DES MUNICIPALITÉS

(CITÉ DE TORONTO)

EMPLOYMENT STANDARDS

AMENDMENT ACT

(LEAVES TO HELP FAMILIES), 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 MODIFIANT

LA

LOI SUR LES NORMES D’EMPLOI

(CONGÉS POUR AIDER LES FAMILLES)

HELPING ONTARIANS ENTER

THE SKILLED TRADES ACT, 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 VISANT

À FACILITER L’ACCÈS AUX MÉTIERS

SPÉCIALISÉS EN ONTARIO

MOTIONS

PRIVATE MEMBERS’ PUBLIC BUSINESS

STANDING COMMITTEE ON

JUSTICE POLICY

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

AND RESPONSES

CANADIAN AGRICULTURE

LITERACY WEEK /

SEMAINE DE SENSIBILISATION

À L’AGRICULTURE CANADIENNE

FAMILY CAREGIVER LEAVE

CONDOMINIUM LEGISLATION

CANADIAN AGRICULTURE

LITERACY WEEK

FAMILY CAREGIVER LEAVE

CONDOMINIUM LEGISLATION

CANADIAN AGRICULTURE

LITERACY WEEK

FAMILY CAREGIVER LEAVE

CONDOMINIUM LEGISLATION

PETITIONS

HOSPITAL PARKING FEES

ANIMAL PROTECTION

GASOLINE PRICES

ANIMAL PROTECTION

WIND TURBINES

ONTARIO NORTHLAND

ONTARIO COLLEGE OF TRADES

SOCIAL ASSISTANCE

LYME DISEASE

WIND TURBINES

SPRINGWATER PROVINCIAL PARK

WIND TURBINES

ORDERS OF THE DAY

GREAT LAKES PROTECTION ACT, 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 SUR LA PROTECTION

DES GRANDS LACS

The House met at 0900.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Good morning. Please join me in prayer.

Prayers.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

AMBULANCE AMENDMENT ACT

(AIR AMBULANCES), 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 MODIFIANT

LA

LOI SUR LES AMBULANCES

(SERVICES D’AMBULANCE AÉRIENS)

Resuming the debate adjourned on February 28, 2013, on the motion for second reading of the following bill:

Bill 11,

An Act to amend the Ambulance Act with respect to air ambulance services / Projet de loi 11, Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les ambulances en ce qui concerne les services d’ambulance aériens.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Further debate?

Mr. Frank Klees: I’m pleased to engage in this debate, notwithstanding the disappointment that we have in the content of this bill.

The Ornge air ambulance scandal is a textbook example of why people are cynical about politics, about politicians, about bureaucrats and the role of the private sector in delivering public services.

In this one file, we have seen how a well-intentioned plan to divest the delivery of an essential health care service to an external non-profit corporation has resulted in the waste of millions of scarce health care dollars, put patients at risk, compromised the ability of dedicated front-line health care providers to carry out their responsibilities, undermined the viability of long-standing service providers and, frankly, ruined the lives of numerous individuals who got caught up in the vortex of this scandal.

Speaker, what concerns me most is that, after some 15 days over months of public hearings, some 57 witnesses and thousands of pages of documentary evidence which makes it clear that the very structure of Ornge is dysfunctional, that it lacks the professional aviation expertise at the most senior levels of the organization to manage and oversee an air ambulance operation and that there has been a serious failure on the part of the Ministry of Health to exercise oversight responsibilities, none of those issues are being addressed by this government.

Rather, what we have here in Bill 11 is a further attempt by this government to divert attention from its failure to oversee this essential part of our health care service, to divert attention from the failure of this minister, the deputy minister and numerous bureaucrats who had clearly defined oversight responsibilities—from doing their job. To this point, no one has been held accountable—no one in this government. In fact, the minister responsible for oversight, who failed miserably, has now been promoted to the position of Deputy Premier. The deputy minister, Mr. Saäd Rafi, who had responsibility on the implementation side, got a raise.

I want to ask this question to the Premier, the new Premier, who has committed to doing things differently, to being accountable: How does she justify that not one individual in this government has been held accountable for their gross mismanagement and that, in fact, individuals within the ministry continue to go unscathed; no consequences for this lack of oversight?

Now we have before us Bill 11, resurrected from the death of Bill 50. Despite the fact that the minister had the benefit of extensive debate and input on Bill 50, the predecessor of Bill 11, and despite the fact that the opposition members provided some very clear observations about the failure of Bill 50 to address the issues of the lack of oversight and accountability, none of those changes were incorporated into Bill 11—none of them.

What does that tell us? It tells us that this government is either blind to the problems at Ornge, or they simply refuse to see them, or they’re complicit—one of the three. And the more I observe this government, the more I have to conclude that they’re complicit. What is it about this government that they fail to see?

I want to talk about the issue of accountability. Speaker, when Bill 50 was debated, we pointed out, as did members of the third party, that the accountability issues have not been addressed. The issue of whistle-blower protection was simply papered over. It’s referenced but it has no substance.

At that time, during that debate, we called for transparency and for accountability, and we said to the government, “Look, if you’re serious about wanting accountability”—and it’s very clear that the government failed in its oversight responsibilities—“then let’s give oversight responsibilities and authority to the Ombudsman so that at the very least, if the minister fails, if the deputy minister fails in oversight, we have an independent officer of this Legislature who can bring to the attention of Parliament what is really going on.” When I first looked at Bill 11, I thought that would be the first change, the first amendment to this original Bill 50 that we would see, but it’s not there.

Someone else noticed that it’s not there, and it happens to be the Ombudsman.

Speaker, I’m going to read into the record the Ombudsman’s letter that is addressed to the Honourable Deb Matthews, dated March 1. The reason I read it into the record is because I think it’s important that members of the government, who I believe want what all of us want, and that is appropriate oversight and accountability—I am concerned, however, that perhaps many members, because of how busy they are in their respective files, don’t always get all of the information, and I know the public doesn’t. So for that reason, I want to take the time now to read this letter into the record, as follows:

“I am writing further to the first reading of Bill 11, Ambulance Amendment Act (Air Ambulances).

“There is no doubt that any steps to increase the accountability of the air ambulance service is welcomed. Indeed, in the wake of the many stories of maladministration horrors that have plagued Ornge, sound public policy to bring proper oversight to this organization is still sorely needed.

“While moving in the right direction, measures such as the establishment of an Ornge patient advocate and Bill 11’s creation of a new bureaucracy of ‘special investigators’ are insufficient to provide much-needed scrutiny, and continue to shield Ornge from Ombudsman oversight. My office remains unable to address any individual or systemic issues involving Ornge.

“The Office of the Ombudsman of Ontario is a unique resource to support the Legislative Assembly in holding government accountable. It is there to allow the provincial Parliament to scrutinize government bodies. I cannot think of a more persuasive case for this than Ornge.

“‘Special Investigators,’ under Bill 11, would enjoy authority similar to that of my office when it investigates the more than 500 ministries, agencies, boards, commissions, tribunals and corporations that fall under our jurisdiction. But there is an important difference: The ‘special investigators’ would report to the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care. They would not be independent of government. Far from being watchdogs, they would operate on a ministerial dog leash.” Speaker, those are the words of our Ombudsman.

I continue:

“The newly created office of patient advocate has been positioned by the government as an additional oversight body that alleviates the need to extend Ombudsman oversight to Ornge. The Ombudsman is a fully independent officer of Parliament, established by statute with a mandate to investigate individual and systemic issues. By contrast, the patient advocate reports to an Ornge vice-president, not even to the board of directors. He or she resides within the bowels of the organization and cannot be expected to investigate any issue with institutional credibility.

When this position was publicly advertised, the first line of the ‘duties and responsibilities’ in the job description noted that the incumbent would be required to ‘(I)nvestigate, resolve, document and report organization-specific patient and visitor compliments’”—Speaker, compliments—“‘and complaints.’ Needless to say, a position that involves reporting compliments back to management ought not be confused with the role of the Ombudsman.

“The recent and proposed changes to Ornge are often put forward as responses to the Auditor General’s March 2012 special report, Ornge Air Ambulance and Related Services. Yet nowhere in his report did he recommend (

a) a new bureaucracy of ‘Special Investigators;’ (

b) the creation of a patient advocate residing deep within Ornge whose partial responsibilities include being a clearing house for ‘compliments;’ or (

c) the maintenance of the status quo with respect to the exclusion of any role for the Ombudsman.

“Every year, our office responds to tens of thousands of complaints, consistently demonstrating its value to elected representatives and the public. As ‘Ontario’s watchdog,’ we are the gold standard in keeping government maladministration at bay. It simply does not make sense to perpetuate our exclusion in a bill that purports to bring credible accountability to Ornge. I would respectfully request your support in bringing the necessary amendments to Bill 11 to ensure that it meets the purpose for which it was presented to the Legislative Assembly.

“Yours truly,

“André Marin

“Ombudsman”

Speaker, this letter says it all. I want to advise the minister that we’re quite confident that the minister won’t be bringing forward this amendment, but we will. As the official opposition, this will, in fact, be the first amendment that we will be proposing to this bill, because we have no confidence that this government has any intention of opening up Ornge to scrutiny, to transparency and to accountability. Our concern is that the track record of this government on other files gives us and, I believe, the public very little confidence that they have any intention of being transparent in their dealings. We will wait to see how this government responds to our amendments.

Once again, we have a commitment from a Premier that it’s a new day in this place, a new day of co-operation. We’ll see how substantive that is when we bring forward amendments to this bill and others. We’ll see if in fact there is substance to the words that we hear from this Premier.

I want to talk about the issue of the credibility of this bill. We’re told that we needed this bill because there was no ability on the part of this government to exercise its oversight. After numerous witnesses from the government, all we have to do is read Hansard and the record of testimony from bureaucrats within the ministry, who confirmed for us that the original performance agreement under which Ornge was operating had numerous points of authority and that the ministry could and, in fact, was mandated to perform oversight, but they failed to do so.

One of the most shocking testimonies that we had came from Mr. Malcolm Bates. When I asked this gentleman, who is the director of the emergency health services branch of the ministry—the emergency health services branch of the ministry is the branch that had specific responsibility to oversee our air ambulance service. I’m going to read from Hansard an exchange between myself and Mr. Bates. Again, I think it puts into context why we have serious concern about the seriousness of this government to deal with the issue of accountability.

From Hansard, my question to Mr. Bates: “You’ve made reference to the performance agreement. I have read the original performance agreement....

“Nowhere in that performance agreement that I can see, unless you can point me to it, does it in any way relieve the Ministry of Health, and specifically the emergency health services branch responsible for air ambulance or ambulance services in the province, of its oversight responsibilities. In fact, there are very specific references to reporting that’s required, to oversight responsibilities.”

The response from Mr. Malcolm Bates: “I agree that the Ministry of Health and the emergency health services branch have and had oversight responsibilities and that oversight responsibility was basically set in line by the Ambulance Act, by the performance agreement and by the transfer-of-payment accountability directive.”

Speaker, this is not a third party who has a vested interest in condemning the Ministry of Health. This is the director of the emergency health services branch, who testified before our committee that they, in fact, had responsibility. The record is very clear that that responsibility was not exercised.

In fact, it gets worse. The fact of the matter is that the same Malcolm Bates testified that he was actually directed by an associate deputy minister not to exercise those responsibilities. He testified at our committee that he was directed to do whatever he was instructed to do by one Dr. Chris Mazza.

Now what does that tell you about the state of our Ministry of Health? What does that tell you about the position that civil servants are put into when they’re told expressly, “Stand down.” They knew what their responsibilities were; they knew their responsibility was to hold Ornge accountable. They saw what was going on. We had testimony from employees of Ornge that there were regular meetings between Ornge and the Ministry of Health. We had testimony and thousands of pages of documentation that showed that Ornge was in fact reporting—not everything, but much—to the Ministry of Health, and yet nothing was done. Why?

Well, one reason is that those civil servants who wanted to do something about it were handcuffed by their superiors. I ask this question: Given the testimony that we have had, I was hoping that at some point I would see the minister stand up and say, “You know, we’ve heard enough. And by the way, here’s what’s happening, we’re going to hold our deputy to account. Saäd Rafi, you didn’t do your job, your job’s over. We’re paying you hundreds”—I say hundreds—“of thousands”—that’s what the deputy minister of health is getting paid.

He didn’t do his job, and I believe that people in this province are cynical about what happens in government because they see the same malpractice, they see the same failures of oversight and maladministration, and no one is held accountable.

Oh, the minister is very quick to throw Chris Mazza under the bus. The minister is very quick to agree that Chris Mazza should repay—and by the way, I agree with that. Chris Mazza made horrible mistakes—bad judgment. I think it’s probably one of the grossest demonstrations of greed and betrayal of the public trust that this province has ever seen on the part of a professional. However, he’s only one player. The reason that he was able to do what he did was because the Ministry of Health did not hold him accountable. At what point should they have taken steps?

The minute they found out that there were some 17 corporations that became part of the business plan to do what? Deliver an air ambulance service that used to be run out of Sunnybrook emergency room. What’s that all about? Who’s responsible? Chris Mazza is paying a price, and rightfully so.

Speaker, there is one chair in this legislative chamber that at the end of the day has responsibility and should be held accountable for what took place at Ornge, and that’s that chair there, occupied by the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care—and now, thanks to the promotion offered her by our new Premier, the Deputy Premier. But that’s not happening.

The second person who should be held accountable is Mr. Saäd Rafi, the Deputy Minister of Health and Long-Term Care. Why is he able to simply go along as a senior bureaucrat in this government and have no consequences for his lack of oversight? And why is there not an internal investigation by this government, based on the evidence that we’ve had under oath about the fact that there were directions to civil servants to stand down and not to do their job?

And why is it, Speaker, that this minister and this Premier refuse to give oversight to the Ombudsman of this Legislature? I think anyone watching, anyone observing, anyone seeing what has taken place so far will understand there’s a reason they don’t want the Ombudsman to have access. There’s far too much, far too much that they don’t want either the Legislature or the public to find out.

But our responsibility is to continue, on behalf of the public, on behalf of taxpayers, to do what we can to shine the light on what I believe is a very, very serious betrayal of the public trust, and we’ll continue to do that.

Public hearings into Ornge continue tomorrow. Speaker, I have asked that the first two witnesses that are called to the hearings are, first, the new CEO of Ornge, Dr. McCallum, who was the former chief coroner of the province—the reason I wanted to call Dr. McCallum as a witness is because I find incredibly disturbing the circumstances under which Dr. McCallum accepted his new responsibilities. You see, Dr. McCallum, as the chief coroner of this province, was the individual to whom I referred a number of cases of patients who died under questionable circumstances that involved Ornge air ambulance.

I asked the coroner to investigate the role that Ornge air ambulance may have played in contributing to the deaths of those patients. That same coroner, who was investigating Ornge, at some point entered into discussions about taking on a job, the senior role at Ornge.

I don’t know about you, Speaker, but there are two questions that I have about that. First of all is the integrity and the judgment on the part of whoever—whether it was the Minister of Health; whether it was the Deputy Minister of Health; whether it was someone on the board of directors of Ornge, the new board—who took the initiative and approached the chief coroner, who was investigating them, about discussing a job, to come and work for them.

The second question I have is the judgment on the part of the chief coroner at the time for even entering into those discussions, knowing the professional responsibility that he had to the investigations that were going on.

You see, every time we turn around, every time a new file is opened on this Ornge air ambulance file, we have more reasons to question the credibility. We have fewer reasons to trust the Minister of Health and the board of directors, now the renewed board of directors. Something is terribly wrong here. We have to get to the bottom of it.

The next witness I have asked to be called is the commissioner of the Ontario Provincial Police. The reason is that we know that the Ontario Provincial Police were called in to investigate, and we’ve heard nothing over the last number of months in terms of what’s happening in that investigation. Now, I know that the commissioner can’t answer specific questions, and we have no intention of in any way interfering with or compromising that investigation.

But I do think this House and the public deserve to at least know the resources that are being applied to that investigation, given the multi-millions of dollars that have been wasted of taxpayer dollars. I think we have the right to know that this investigation is being taken very seriously by our Ontario Provincial Police.

I also think we have a right to know whether the OPP has called in the RCMP to assist in this investigation and whether the FBI has been called in from the United States. The reason for that is that we also, based on sworn testimony, know that there were some very questionable financial transactions that were of an international nature. If, in fact, the FBI has not been called in, then I believe there is something wrong and there is something questionable about how this entire investigation is being handled. I personally referred a number of transcripts to the US Attorney General for this very reason.

Some $6.7 million has exchanged hands, with no value, and we know that based on sworn testimony. Those funds were transferred from AgustaWestland. We also know that the parent company of AgustaWestland, Finmeccanica—that two senior people in that company are now facing criminal charges for fraud and bribery. What is of interest is the same deal that Agusta entered into is reflected in that deal with India. How many helicopters did AgustaWestland sell to Ornge? Twelve. How many helicopters were involved in the deal with India? Twelve. If you look at the financial transactions, there are uncanny parallels.

Speaker, if criminal charges are not laid in this case, the public will be wondering who’s falling down on the job and who is protecting their interests. This is a serious issue that can’t be covered up with Bill 11.

I want to talk about the issue that I think is top of mind for many employees, many front-line staff of Ornge, and I want to take this opportunity to thank the first responders at Ornge, and I include the paramedics; I include the pilots; I include the dispatchers; and I include those in administration, the employees who, day to day, attempt to do the very best that they can to provide a professional service. Unfortunately, over the years, they have been hampered and undermined in their ability to do that because of the mismanagement and the greed of a few people at the top of that organization. But I want to thank those front-line staff for their dedication.

I want to thank those who had the courage over the last number of months to come forward and to share with us—some dared to do so in public testimony. One of those individuals, as we know from the record, was summarily dismissed within days of appearing before the committee.

The threats to employees that come forward are keeping many of those employees silent—they need their job—and so we’ve been calling for whistle-blower protection. Interestingly enough, we have some surface reference to whistle-blower protection here. I want to point something out to the minister, as I did in the last debate on this. She ignored it; she’ll probably ignore it again. However, we’re going to, once again, provide an amendment. We’ll file an amendment to this bill that gives serious whistle-blower protection.

Section 7.7 of this proposed bill talks about whistle-blower protection, but you know what? It limits the whistle-blower protection to very few people. Who can you expose information to? Well, your superiors at Ornge. Oh, really? Well, it’s the superiors at Ornge who were the problem.

How can that be taken seriously by anyone? Why would an employee not be protected if they were to bring their concerns to a member of the Legislature? What’s wrong with that? Why is it, as the Ombudsman points out, that this all has to be contained within the corporate structure and, in his words, in “the bowels of the organization”? What is that all about?

We will be presenting amendments to give employees the confidence that, if there’s something that is not right that they see first-hand that’s keeping them from doing their job, that’s threatening patient safety, they have the boldness and the confidence that they can come forward without repercussions and get it dealt with. That’s simply reasonable.

I want to refer as well, Speaker, to the issue of liability of the board of directors. As I said earlier, Chris Mazza is in the crosshairs of this government. I think the reason, of course, is that that is a very convenient sacrificial lamb. “Let’s focus on Chris Mazza. Let’s be adamant”—and the minister makes no bones about how outraged she is at Chris Mazza’s actions and his greed.

I want to ask this: Where was the board of directors while all of this was going on? I went through expense reports yesterday. Every one of the expense reports that I saw had the name of the chair of the board on it. Mr. Beltzner signed off on all of them. I went over the loans—$450,000, $250,000—signed off by Mr. Beltzner, chair of the board. There’s such a thing as fiduciary responsibility on the part of someone who takes on the responsibility as a director of a corporation, whether that be a not-for-profit or whether that be a for-profit corporation.

I want to assure the people of this province that we will be pursuing those directors who also had a responsibility to step in and ensure that the taxpayers were protected.

Speaker, in closing, I just simply want to make this point. I believe that the divesting of delivery of health care services can in fact be done, and it can be done efficiently and responsibly through a non-governmental organization, but what has to be in place is proper oversight, accountability, transparency. Who is responsible at the end of the day to ensure that, whatever arrangement is agreed to, whatever the document is under which those services are performed, that service provider is held accountable? It is the government of the day, and the government of the day cannot paper over its lack of responsibility and its failure. That’s what they’re trying to do with this bill.

There is nothing of substance in this bill that will prevent what took place at Ornge. What will prevent what took place at Ornge is responsible oversight. That was the charge of the Minister of Health, the Deputy Minister of Health and the bureaucrats within government, who now have a responsibility to take this seriously. We look forward, perhaps at some point, to the Minister of Health standing in her place and doing that. Perhaps at some point there will be evidence that the deputy minister, Mr. Saäd Rafi, admits that he failed in his job, and that there will be consequences for those who didn’t.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Comments and questions?

M me France Gélinas: It was interesting to listen to the member from Newmarket–Aurora going through the trials and tribulations that surrounded our air ambulance, our air ambulance that used to be the pride and joy of this province for the good work that they did.

Then, how bad it all went, to the point where, in March 2012, the Auditor General tabled a special report. The Ambulance Amendment Act was tabled the same day. That was the government’s response to what had been in the Auditor General’s report, but it was really the government’s response to what had been on the front page of the paper since December 2011.

But make no mistake, the problems at Ornge were known months and years before this. You will all remember, if you follow this, that I was subbed in in 2008 in estimates by Howard Hampton, who was the leader of the NDP at the time—2008, that’s five years ago—because whistle-blowers had started to come to the NDP. They had started to go to the Liberals and to the PCs as well. They were trying to tell their story to whoever would listen. So I was subbed in in estimates, and my leader asked 60 questions specifically about Ornge in estimates. Madam Speaker, we never got one single answer.

The bureaucrats never knew we had questions, and no answer was forthcoming. That was in 2008, and the story goes downhill from there.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Further comments?

Ms. Helena Jaczek: Certainly, I’d like to make a few comments in regard to the remarks of the member from Newmarket–Aurora. First of all, I want to say on behalf of the government that we are clear—our Premier has been clear, and our Minister of Health and Long-Term Care has been clear—that we want to get to the bottom of the problems at Ornge.

We also, in terms of some of his remarks, are anxious to talk to Dr. McCallum. Our side at public accounts will certainly be in favour of calling him as a witness, as the member from Newmarket–Aurora has suggested.

I want to say that some sort of accusations of complicity that were made are baseless, are false and are totally denied by our government.

Turning to the provisions within Bill 11, the Ambulance Amendment Act, we feel that they are a very good response to the Auditor General’s report of March 2012 in terms of the new performance agreement. I’ve examined the Auditor General’s reports and his recommendations, and what we are now requiring from Ornge, and I think there is a very good fit.

In terms of the whistle-blower provisions, these are the same provisions currently in place in the long-term-care act of 2007. As we know, in our long-term-care homes we have a very vulnerable population, just as we have with the patients at Ornge. I think that there’s a good parallel in adopting those particular provisions.

Another important aspect of Bill 11 is that through regulation we will be making records available through FOI requests. This is something that clearly is needed and we’re happy to include it in the bill. Certainly as we go forward, I expect everyone—

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Thank you. The member from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. It’s a pleasure to comment on my colleague from Newmarket–Aurora and his address this morning.

You know, you’d think that the government would finally try to get it right. They keep talking about, “We want to get to the bottom of this; we want to correct this.” Yet, when the bill was before the last session of Parliament, under Bill 55, they refused to call it for debate for such a long period of time, until Dalton McGuinty rode off into the sunset and the bill died.

My colleague offered numerous suggestions as to how this bill could be strengthened and improved, not only here in the House but at the committee level as well, where over 15 days of committee hearings and 57 witnesses, they found out much more about the terrible scandal at Ornge that this government had perpetrated, along with their cohort Chris Mazza.

I would suggest that if you really want to get to the bottom of this, take heed to what the member from Newmarket–Aurora is saying. He has been on top of this file from the get-go. He is the one that brought this issue to this Parliament. I have to ask myself, as many people across Ontario are asking, what would have happened if the member from Newmarket–Aurora, Mr. Klees, had not brought this issue before this Parliament? Would it have been another one of those eHealth messes that we didn’t find out about for a few more years? At least pay heed to what he is telling you now.

He’s giving you the opportunity to make sure that we have the best piece of legislation possible to ensure that this doesn’t happen again. Mind you, let me be very clear: The search for the truth on the Ornge scandal will continue. I know this government will continue to try to stand in the way, and they will try to protect their own turf, but with the member from Newmarket–Aurora leading the charge, we will get to the bottom of this.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Further comments?

Ms. Catherine Fife: It’s a pleasure to actually weigh in on this very important issue. I think this morning the member from Nickel Belt has given us some important context for this conversation. This is a long-standing issue, where the public has been left out of the accountability formula for sure.

The member from Newmarket–Aurora raises some good issues around the whistle-blower protection. I want to be clear: Whistle-blowers are the front-line people in the field. They have the lived experience of the crisis that is Ornge. The pressure that is on these folks, who are delivering health care—the stress and the pressure on them to deliver goods to the public is profound. When they come to us, as legislators, and when they go to the public and say, “There are real issues. There is a crisis amongst our workers.

The air ambulance attendants couldn’t perform CPR in the designed air ambulances”—the public has no patience for it. They have no tolerance for it, and we need to do better. To not listen to the Ombudsman when he says that he needs oversight and to not take into account the weight of the responsibility that we have to ensure that true oversight is happening with Ornge is really a lack of potential for us as legislators.

We’re going to stay on this file as well. The member from Nickel Belt has given us important context and history. There’s still cause for concern, and so we’re going to stay on this file as well. That’s our job as the third party. Thank you.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): The member for Newmarket–Aurora has two minutes to respond.

Mr. Frank Klees: Thank you, Speaker. I appreciate my colleagues’ comments.

I want to point something out: Bill 50, which was the identical bill that we’re now debating, was tabled for first reading on March 21, 2012. It sat in this House for seven months. The House leader did not call this bill. The record will show that he stood up time and time again to say, “Why will members of the opposition not pass this bill?” The reason we didn’t pass the bill was, first of all, it’s a faulty bill, but even so, with the government not calling it, it was never debated. Now we have the same document before us, and we have the same rhetoric coming from the government.

Speaker, I first raised a question in the House here in April 2011 about Ornge and what was going on. I asked the Minister of Health to investigate. I asked the Minister of Finance to investigate. I asked the Premier to investigate. This is all a matter of record in Hansard. Every one of them defended Ornge and assured us all was well. The Minister of Finance said, “Everything is in order.” And here we are today and nothing has changed, except that we found out the truth, or at least some of it.

Now this same government continues to deflect responsibility. And until this government admits that they failed miserably, we’ll continue our responsibility, as members of the official opposition, joined by members of the third party, to hold this government accountable. Thank you, Speaker.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Further debate?

M me France Gélinas: It feels a little bit like déjà vu all over again. This bill has been tabled in this House before. As I mentioned, the Auditor General presented his report, a special report on investigations of value-for-money audits at Ornge, in March 2012. The same day, the Minister of Health responded with the Ambulance Amendment Act, the bill we are debating yet again this morning.

When she first presented the bill, we all understood that it was a bill that had been pulled together in haste. Ornge had made the headlines of the papers and the headlines of all of the media non-stop since December 2011. It had been a frenzy of information, all of them more damning, one more than the other, showing clearly that the government had not succeeded in its basic function of oversight of that organization. So the Ambulance Amendment Act was pulled together in haste and presented in front of the House.

Right away, we started to show flaws in the bill, but that’s okay because that’s the way the process works. You present it in first and second reading, then it goes to committee, and you get to basically make the bill stronger before it goes to third reading. But none of that happened, Madam Speaker. None of that happened. We were presented with a flawed bill back then, and we are presented again with the same flawed bill now.

I was more than willing to be patient and say, “Well, let the process unfold and we’ll make the bill stronger” in 2012. We’re now in March 2013, Madam Speaker. We were prorogued for over four months. What a good opportunity: If you really want to do something good, go back on those bills, make them stronger and fix the holes that we’ve already identified for you so that we can have meaningful discussion moving forward. But none of that was done. The same flawed bill that was presented in haste to us in response to a media crisis is presented to us a year later.

The suggestions that were made by the official opposition and by the NDP are not reflected in the bill. I will give credit to the minister that—I was really insistent that Ornge be FOIable. That is, freedom of access of information should apply to Ornge, and we can see that this hopefully will get done through regulation. It has not happened yet, but we’re hoping that it will happen. I will give her the benefit of the doubt on that one, because I always do.

Interjection.

M me France Gélinas: Sometimes people question my judgment on that, but I like to stay positive.

So why was the bill flawed? Before I go into each and every one of the flaws in that bill, I’d like to give you the helicopter view of what it means. Basically, the ministry will tell you that they did not have the tools to deal with the crisis at Ornge, so what they are doing with the bill is giving themselves the tools. If you were to look at this and use a different language, the ministry used to have a little stick, and now they’re giving themselves a really big stick to beat them if they ever need to.

The problem, Madam Speaker, was never the size of the stick that you can beat Ornge with; the problem was that they refused to act. It didn’t matter how many whistle-blowers went to them. It didn’t matter how many reports were submitted to them. It didn’t matter where the money was going. They refused to act. They had measures and tools that they could have used. We had bureaucrats that came to us and said that they were willing to and had put forward steps to bring back Ornge, and they were told not to. So it’s not because the stick was too small that they couldn’t beat Ornge into submission; it was because they refused to use it.

Why? The jury is out on this. I certainly have my own personal opinion. They wanted this model. We’ve had air ambulance in Ontario since 1977. It is not a new service. I live in northern Ontario. I service a mainly rural area; I have 33 beautiful little communities in Nickel Belt. Most of them don’t have ambulance services except for Ornge, except for air ambulance.

The service has been in place for many, many decades, but the Liberal government had this idea that they were going to privatize air ambulance. They were going to allow air ambulance to make money, to run like a business because, for some reason, running like a business is better than being accountable to the public. I don’t know where those ideas come from, but it failed. It failed miserably. It failed in that it has shaken the confidence of every single Ontarian to the core.

When Ornge goes around with their little vans in my riding, you know what happens, Madam Speaker? People write messages on the sides of their helicopters—not the helicopters, sorry; on the side of the land ambulance that they use. I won’t repeat the messages that are written on the sides, but they’re not nice. The front-line workers are paying the price right now for errors that they did not do.

Those men and women continued through tough times to deliver as good a service as they could, when half of the fleet was not staffed, when the morale was below basement level and when they could see the corruption at the top. They tried so hard to tell everybody, “Look at what’s happening at the top. This is wrong,” and nobody would listen.

So now we have a service that nobody trusts anymore. In Nickel Belt, if you or your loved ones ever need an ambulance, there’s a good chance that Ornge is going to be the one coming to rescue you. It used to be that we were proud of our air ambulance. Right now we’re not. The confidence needs to be rebuilt.

Do you really think that by giving the Minister of Health a bigger stick, people in Nickel Belt and everywhere in Ontario where we depend on our air ambulance in times of need—do you really think this builds confidence? Absolutely not. They don’t care about the size of the stick that the minister has because she had one before and she didn’t use it. What they want is, they want to be included in this equation. They want to make sure that if they see something wrong, there will be a response; that if a whistle-blower comes forward, she or he won’t lose their job, and it will be acted upon. They want to be included in this.

How do you include people? The first way is, you listen to them. You listen to them. Who better to listen than our Ombudsman? Who do people naturally turn to when something goes wrong with the services of the provincial government? They phone the Ombudsman. This is what they’re there for. This is what they’re known for. So the Ombudsman gets the call, he gets the complaint, he hears the story, and his answer back is, “I’m sorry, I don’t have jurisdiction.” Do you really think that helps build the confidence back? Not at all.

How else can people get involved? Through freedom-of-access-to-information requests. If all of those whistle-blowers, everybody on the front lines and their families, who knew that things were wrong at the top had been able to file freedom-of-access—I can tell you that my party, the NDP, filed many freedom-of-access-to-information requests for Ornge, way back, from 2009, 2010, 2011. What kind of response did we get? I won’t keep you in suspense or anything. Nada. We did not get any answers to our freedom-of-access-to-information requests.

Although we knew something was going wrong, as we tried to find more proof—when you have seven whistle-blowers telling you the exact same story and they come from seven different parts of the province, you start to believe that there’s probably some truth to that story. So when you start to dig in to see what’s really happening, the Ombudsman can’t help you because he doesn’t have jurisdiction. The freedom-of-access-to-information request is useless, because we get no response.

Hey, estimates came up. “We’ll ask our question through estimates. They have to give us answers when we file questions through estimates.” That was met with nothing.

I haven’t been a politician for that long; I’ve been a politician for five years. Whenever I participated in estimates, I always got answers. You don’t always get them right there on the spot. The minister is there and all of the top bureaucrats are there, and they try their best to give you answers but sometimes they just don’t know, but they go and they get you answers and they submit them to the Clerk, and they become part of the record and you have them in writing. You get answers because estimates is a serious process of this Legislative Assembly that allows us to look into how taxpayers’ money is being spent.

How could it be that if you look around at all of the questions we’ve ever asked of the Minister of Health, not one estimates Ornge question was ever answered? Not one. Months went by. Years went by. It didn’t matter what the Clerk did to try to get answers. It didn’t matter what we did to try to get answers. Nothing came.

The Ombudsman is not allowed to look in. The freedom-of-access-to-information requests to try to see what’s going on bring back nothing. We asked questions in estimates, and that brings back nothing.

There’s also a committee process where an agency can be called in front of the Legislature to basically bring accountability, to answer questions. Ornge cannot be called in front of committee. Why? I don’t know. What harm would there be in having Ornge added to the thousands of agencies, boards and commissions that can be called in front of the Legislative Assembly? I don’t know. I asked for that. We all did because, remember, we want to bring that balance. We want to bring that balance that says, “We’ve been burned once, where the minister didn’t act.

Now we want to be part of the equation.” “We” as in the capital. “We the people of Ontario want to be part of this equation.” They also want to have a say. They want to be able to hold the government accountable and hold the different agencies, boards and commissions of this province accountable.

This is a process that doesn’t cost anything. This is a precedent that exists for thousands of agencies of the Ministry of Health. This is something that, 12 months ago, we were asking for, and this is something that is not in the bill.

The bill will give the minister a great big stick, but it’s the other side of the accountability ledger that hasn’t moved. It is the side that is, to me, the most important. It is the side that will help the people of Ontario who depend on our air ambulance in their times of need. This is the side that would help us build confidence in that agency again, because right now, in the trust account, they are in overdraft. Nobody trusts them anymore.

You cannot put every flaw of Ornge on the front page of every Ontario paper for weeks and months—a year now—on end, because the story hasn’t ended, and expect people to trust them. It’s really too bad. No disrespect to all the good men and women who work day in and day out to make it work. It’s through a change that this confidence account will rebuild trust, and trust is at the core of everything that the health care system does.

If you don’t have confidence in your health care provider—it doesn’t matter how good the care is—it’s not going to work. It’s not going to work because we are human beings, and health care is really a relationship between two people: the person who helps and the person in need. Once the trust is gone, it’s really hard to have quality care.

This is the situation we find ourselves in right now. We find ourselves in a situation where the trust account for our air ambulance system has been completely depleted, and we have a minister whose idea of fixing it is to give herself a bigger stick. I have no problem with giving the minister some new powers to deal with Ornge.

I will go through the bill in more detail. Unfortunately, my one-hour lead will be cut in two. This is one of the shows where you’ll want to tune in a little bit later because in a few seconds I’m going to be—

Mr. John Yakabuski: Do we get scenes from our next episode?

M me France Gélinas: Yes. You can get tickets for prime seats for the next episode coming soon. I’m about to be off-air. But that doesn’t take away the seriousness of what we’re talking about.

I will go through the bill more or less clause by clause to show—some of the new powers of the minister, I have no problem with. They are powers that exist with many other transfer payment agencies of the Ministry of Health, and they have served the people of Ontario well when the minister chooses to use them. But there are other new powers in there that I don’t think are for the benefit of the people of Ontario.

When my time comes again, I will go through step by step as to what is good in that bill, because there are some good things. I will show you what is not so good in that bill; that is basically a bill that was put together in haste, with cut and paste from other areas of the health care system that make very little sense for Ornge. Some of that bill is clearly ugly, not to mention the huge omissions in that bill.

The huge omissions have to do with rebuilding the public trust in an agency that many of us depend on and giving us, as in the people of Ontario, an opportunity to be involved so that, if we see something wrong coming again, we know that we will be listened to, we know that we will be heard, and we know that something will happen, because last time it didn’t.

Ça me fait toujours plaisir de commencer les discussions sur un nouveau projet de loi. Le projet de loi pour les ambulances aériennes, ce n’est pas un projet de loi nouveau; c’est un projet de loi qui nous avait été présenté en mars 2012, il y a à peu près un an de ça. Il avait été présenté la même journée que le vérificateur général nous avait présenté son rapport, un rapport qui démontrait que les activités à Ornge n’étaient pas en ligne avec ce qui aurait dû être fait. Non seulement qu’elles n’étaient pas en ligne avec ce qui aurait dû être fait, mais on se doutait qu’il y avait également des éléments illégaux qui se passaient à Ornge.

Donc, le vérificateur général soumet son rapport, un rapport qui, vraiment, remet les pendules à l’heure. On ne peut plus ignorer le fait que les choses vont mal à Ornge. La ministre de la Santé dépose le projet de loi, un projet de loi qui avait été mis ensemble un peu trop rapidement et qui avait des grosses lacunes. Donc, la première fois que le projet de loi a été présenté, on a démontré là où étaient les lacunes.

Vous allez tous vous souvenir que l’Assemblée législative a été prorogée. « Proroger » est un grand mot qui veut dire qu’on arrête tout ce qui se passe et qu’on efface tout ce qui se passe. Ça, c’est le « Magic Eraser » de M. Clean; on efface tout ce qui se passe. Donc, on a effacé tout le travail qui avait été fait.

Pour moi, ça aurait été le moment idéal pour retravailler le projet de loi. On savait qu’il y avait des lacunes. On savait que c’était un projet de loi qui avait été mis ensemble à la hâte. Profitons-en pour montrer quelque chose de meilleur.

Bien, on est maintenant en mars 2013. Ça fait un an de ça et la ministre de la Santé nous présente exactement le même projet de loi. Elle le sait très bien qu’il y a des lacunes dans son projet de loi parce que les membres du parti néo-démocrate et les membres de l’opposition officielle ont dit : « Écoute, il y a des bonnes choses dans ton projet de loi, mais il y en a également qui ont besoin d’être retravaillées. » Elle nous représente la même chose—identique; il n’y a pas un mot qui a été changé.

Bien, qu’est-ce que vous pensez, madame la Présidente? C’est sûr que les mêmes lacunes sont également là. Non seulement y avait-il des lacunes dans son projet de loi, mais il y a des parties de ce projet de loi qui ne sont pas acceptables parce que le projet de loi est vraiment fait pour donner plus d’outils, plus de mesures, à la ministre de la Santé pour faire son travail de surveiller Ornge. Certaines de ces mesures-là sont bonnes; ce sont des mesures qui existent ailleurs dans le système de la santé et qui servent bien les Ontariens et Ontariennes.

Certaines autres de ces mesures, franchement, sont plutôt drastiques et n’ont pas vraiment leur place, mais elles ont quand même été gardées dans ce projet de loi-là pour des raisons qui m’échappent.

Donc, on se retrouve, un an plus tard, avec un projet de loi qui n’a pas été retravaillé. Moi je me dis : « Tu sais, les quatre mois de prorogation n’ont pas été bien utilisés. » Au moins, ça nous aurait donné une opportunité en or de présenter des projets de loi plus solides. Non, cette opportunité-là, on l’a laissée aller complètement. On nous représente exactement la même chose avec les mêmes lacunes, les mêmes défauts et le même manque de travail. Ça avait été fait vite; ça paraît. On va en vivre avec les conséquences.

De notre côté, ce qu’on aimerait vraiment voir dans le projet de loi, c’est un meilleur équilibre entre les nouvelles mesures et outils que la ministre de la Santé veut pour faire son travail de supervision d’Ornge. Mais, en même temps, on veut donner au public ontarien la chance d’être, lui aussi, entendu. La meilleure façon d’être entendu, tout le monde le sait, c’est d’appeler l’ombudsman. Aussitôt qu’il y a quelque chose qui se passe dans les programmes et services du gouvernement provincial, la première chose que les gens ont tendance à faire, c’est d’appeler l’ombudsman.

Je vois que vous êtes prête à vous lever, madame. I’ll let you.

Second reading debate deemed adjourned.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): It being 10:15, this House stands recessed until 10:30.

The House recessed from 1015 to 1030.

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): We have with us today in the Speaker’s gallery, from the Brazilian state of Amapá, the governor, Mr. Camilo Capiberibe, and his council. We welcome him today.

The Minister of Finance on the introduction of guests.

Hon. Charles Sousa: Welcome.

Remarks in Portuguese.

My cousin, I should say, José Carlos Sousa is here as well. Thank you very much, all of you, for being here.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I appreciate the Minister of Finance showing up the Speaker in another language.

Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities.

Hon. Brad Duguid: As members probably know, students have come here from across the province to meet with us, their members of all parties, to discuss post-secondary issues and education. OUSA represents 155,000 students in Ontario. I’d like to welcome student leaders from Brock University, Wilfrid Laurier University, McMaster University, Queen’s University, Trent University at Oshawa, the University of Waterloo, Western University and the University of Windsor. Who knows; I may have left some out. Welcome to all the students, and I’m sure we’re all looking forward to meeting with you today.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): As I did yesterday, I will remind the members that when you’re doing introductions—and I didn’t hear any names—it’s not a moment for statements; it’s a moment to introduce our guests. I reminded someone else who was watching carefully that I gave you the same message.

Ministry of Economic Development, Trade and Employment.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: St. Paul’s page Joshua Limpert is joined here today in the gallery by his mother, Ann Stewart; Brad Limpert, his father; and his brother Noah.

Hon. Reza Moridi: It’s my pleasure to introduce and welcome grade 10 students from Langstaff Secondary School in my riding of Richmond Hill. They’re not in the gallery, but they are in the building, and we welcome them.

MEMBERS’ PRIVILEGES

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): On February 20, 2013, the member for Prince Edward–Hastings, Mr. Smith, rose on a point of privilege concerning the government’s incomplete production of documents relating to its decision to cancel the construction of two power plants in 2010 and 2011.

According to the member, in the previous session, government members had made deliberately misleading statements about the extent of production, and the Minister of Energy had failed to produce all documents responsive to the order of the House. The government House leader, Mr. Milloy, and the member from Timmins–James Bay, Mr. Bisson, also spoke to the matter.

Having reviewed the notice provided by the member from Prince Edward–Hastings, the written submissions of the government House leader and of the official opposition House leader, relevant Hansards from the current and previous sessions, and various parliamentary authorities, I am now prepared to rule on the matter.

Let me begin by providing some background. The member’s point of privilege arises out of the government’s initial non-production of all documents that were the subject of a May 16, 2012, order of the Standing Committee on Estimates, a September 13, 2012, Speaker’s ruling to the effect that a prima facie case of privilege had been established with respect to the non-production, and an October 2 order of the House directing “the Minister of Energy and the Ontario Power Authority to table immediately with the Clerk of the House all remaining documents ordered by the Standing Committee on Estimates on May 16, 2012.”

As members are aware, many responsive documents were tabled on September 24 and October 12, and then more recently on February 21. The September 24 tabling, which was made in the aftermath of the September 13 Speaker’s ruling, included a cover letter from the Minister of Energy to the effect that he had been “advised by ministry staff that the documents attached to this letter comprise all documents that are responsive to the committee’s request regardless of privilege or confidentiality,” as well as a cover letter from the chief executive officer of the Ontario Power Authority to the effect that “[t]hese documents comprise responsive material” related to the committee’s May 16 requests.

In the first few days of the September 24 tabling, many government members indicated that the tabled documents constituted full production of the documents sought. However, these statements did not appear to be accurate because many more documents, including a cover letter from the Deputy Minister of Energy and another from the chief executive officer of the Ontario Power Authority, were tabled on October 12.

At the outset of the next sessional day, October 15, the Minister of Energy and the government House leader corrected their records concerning post-September 24 statements that they had made inside and outside the House to the effect that the September 24 tabling constituted full production.

On a point of privilege raised later the same day, the member from Prince Edward–Hastings alleged that statements many government members had made in the House after September 27 were misleading. According to the member, government members indicated to the House after September 27 that all documents responsive to the May 16 request for documents by the Standing Committee on Estimates and the September 13 Speaker’s ruling had been tabled on September 24 when, according to information contained in letters tabled on October 12, they purportedly knew by September 27 that this was not the case.

My ruling on this point of privilege was reserved, but the ruling was never made in the previous session because prorogation occurred the same day, hence the reason for the member rising on the point of privilege on February 20.

I first want to clarify that the September 13 ruling did not constitute an order to produce the documents in question. The Speaker has no authority to order production; only the House and its committees can do so. As already noted, the authority to order production was exercised in the previous session on May 16, in the case of the Standing Committee on Estimates, and on October 2, in the case of the House.

In written submissions on this point of privilege, the official opposition House leader points me to two rulings in the Canadian House of Commons by Speaker Milliken that he believes are instructive in the case at hand and supportive of the point of privilege raised by the member from Prince Edward–Hastings.

The most recent was made on March 9, 2011, and arose from a point of privilege raised as a result of a report by the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development. In that report, the committee noted that the Minister of International Cooperation, Bev Oda, made inconsistent statements in the House and in the committee concerning the funding of a foreign aid organization called Kairos. The crux of this ruling surrounded the fact that sufficiently different statements were made in two parliamentary venues, such that they caused confusion that had not been cleared up.

In the face of these contradictory statements, which remained unreconciled, Speaker Milliken found that sufficient doubt existed to warrant a finding of prima facie privilege in that case.

I do not see this decision as being applicable to the point raised by the member from Prince Edward–Hastings because there has been no case made that confusingly contradictory statements have been made to this House.

The other Milliken ruling drawn to my attention was made on February 1, 2002, and concerned an allegation that then-National Defence Minister Art Eggleton had deliberately misled the House of Commons. This ruling has been referred to in this House before and was directly addressed by Speaker Carr in his June 17, 2002, ruling as follows:

“I see no precedential value to Speaker Milliken’s ruling—within the ambit of parliamentary privilege—since, if the ruling is carefully read, it becomes apparent that a prima facie case of privilege was not explicitly found. Rather, Speaker Milliken seems to have stopped himself short in that regard and chose instead a novel approach, finding ultimately—without mentioning privilege—that the matter deserved consideration by a committee, and inviting a motion to give effect to this result.

“I would generally be hesitant to appropriate for myself such an original, informal approach since the precedents, traditions and customs of this House around questions of privilege reveal a more definitive tendency. In my view, there are no shades of grey when it comes to parliamentary privilege, and I would not like to promote such a view by delivering a ruling that failed to address, squarely and solely on its procedural merits, the question raised.”

I concur with the view of Speaker Carr, and later that of Speaker Peters, who similarly rejected the precedential usefulness of this Milliken ruling on September 28, 2009.

In the point raised by the member from Prince Edward–Hastings, the allegation is that misleading information was knowingly given to the House. As was indicated in various oral and written submissions on this matter, the criteria for determining whether a member has deliberately misled the House is described on pages 653 and 654 of the third edition of McGee’s Parliamentary Practice in New Zealand in the following terms:

“There are three elements to be established when it is alleged that a member is in contempt by reason of a statement that the member has made: The statement must, in fact, have been misleading; it must be established that the member making the statement knew at the time the statement was made that it was incorrect; and, in making it, the member must have intended to mislead the House.”

These criteria are, by their very nature, not easily satisfied. As Speaker Carr indicated at page 102 of the journals for June 17, 2002:

“The threshold for finding a prima facie case of contempt against a member of the Legislature, on the basis of deliberately misleading the House, is therefore set quite high and is very uncommon. It must involve a proved finding of an overt attempt to intentionally mislead the Legislature. In the absence of an admission from the member accused of the conduct, or of tangible confirmation of the conduct, independently proved, a Speaker must assume that no honourable members would engage in such behaviour or that, at most, inconsistent statements were the result of inadvertence or honest mistake.”

I now turn to the application of the first criteria in the McGee test to what was said and done between September 24 and October 15. Were misleading statements made to the House? With respect to the September 24 tabling, the Minister of Energy indicated in his September 24 letter that he had been “advised by ministry staff” that the September 24 tabling constituted full production.

The Minister of Energy and the government House leader both subsequently used unequivocal language and described those documents as fully responsive to the orders for their production, as did various other government members. As we all know, that was not the case, so there can be no doubt that these statements were incorrect and thereby could have been misleading.

Did the members making the statements know at the time they were made that they were incorrect? The member for Prince Edward–Hastings says that, according to the information contained in the letters accompanying the October 12 tabling of documents, the government became aware of the existence of additional documents by September 27. However, a close reading of the letters suggests only that the government knew on that date that there was a possibility that there were additional responsive documents, and that, based on that possibility, a process was put in place to determine whether or not there actually were additional responsive documents.

After September 27, presumably equipped with the knowledge that the potential existed that there were further documents beyond those tabled on September 24, the unequivocal language ceased. In my mind, this represents a conscious effort to ensure that subsequent statements to the House were correct. There is no evidence before me that convinces me that the former Minister of Energy and other members of the government had any reason not to accept the information that they initially had that all of the documents had been tabled on September 24.

Indeed, the letters tabled on September 24 confirm that this was the information they had been given. In my opinion, they had an honest belief that their resulting statements were true; both the Minister of Energy and the government House leader avowed this to the House on October 15. I have not been convinced that the second McGee criterion has been established.

While this sequence of events certainly demonstrates that some statements were incorrect when they were made, as I have said, I accept that they were believed to be true at the time, not made with the intention of misleading the House, and corrected at the earliest opportunity when it became clear they were incorrect. There is no evidence before me that would support a contrary opinion.

For these reasons, I find that a prima facie case of contempt on the basis that a member has deliberately misled the House has not been established.

In closing, I thank the member for Prince Edward–Hastings, the government House leader and the member for Timmins–James Bay for speaking to this matter, and the government House leader and the official opposition House leader for their written submissions.

The member for Prince Edward–Hastings on a point of order.

Mr. Todd Smith: I thank you very much for your ruling, sir.

ORAL QUESTIONS

ARBITRATION

Mr. Tim Hudak: My question is to the Premier—and let me say thank you, Speaker, for your considered ruling. I do want to say that, while two ministers—Minister Bentley and Minister Milloy—apologized to the assembly, there remain 28 other Liberals who have not yet apologized to the assembly for giving information that was not in keeping with the facts, including the Premier herself. I hope that the Liberals will take the time today to apologize to all members with respect to gas plant documents that were buried.

To the Premier: When Ontario’s economy is barely growing, Ontario’s broken arbitration system is handing out agreements that are simply out of line with taxpayers’ ability to pay and are causing municipalities to cut back on crucial front-line services. By way of example, an arbitrator recently gave Peterborough firefighters a 10.4% wage increase, while another one gave TTC workers a 6% increase that will cost $100 million. Premier, what are you prepared to do to fix the broken arbitration system—including supporting our PC bill?

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, and I also thank you for your ruling.

In the spring—in the budget—we actually proposed interest-based arbitration reforms. We put those in the budget last spring, and what those reforms would have done is that they would have increased accountability, transparency and the timeliness of the decisions. In fact, those are the kinds of changes that I know that municipalities were looking for.

I was the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing at the time. I was meeting monthly with the Association of Municipalities of Ontario; this was something that they were very concerned about. That’s why we put them in the budget. It would have been fantastic if the opposition had supported those measures.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Tim Hudak: Obviously, Speaker, it’s a disappointing response by the Premier. There’s that old expression: “The more things change, the more they stay the same.” That’s exactly what Dalton McGuinty used to say, sitting in the exact same spot. I thought this Premier was going to take a different path, but she seems determined to entrench the McGuinty agenda.

What you said, Premier, is actually not in keeping with the facts. I’ll remind you that the Association of Municipalities of Ontario said, with respect to those reforms, that they “stopped short of achieving a balanced system—one that is truly transparent and accountable—for all parties, including arbitrators, and particularly for taxpayers.” I think they’ve called you out on this—that your reforms were not truly reforms—so, hopefully you’ll move beyond saying something that’s not, in fact, true.

Let me ask you in a different way: Premier, do you think that wage settlements for public sector unions that are running 50% to 80% ahead of inflation are fair to the 80% of taxpayers who are not on the public sector payroll? How do you reconcile that kind of differential?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: In fact, the settlements that are coming in are running at 0.2% increases, and we’ve seen zero-zero in many, many of our sectors, so we actually are seeing success in terms of the wage constraint that we said we were going to put in place.

I agree with the Leader of the Opposition that municipalities would have liked to see us go farther; I understand that. But the changes, the reforms that we put in the budget were clearly taking us in the direction that the municipalities wanted to see us go in, and they clearly were taking us in the direction that the party opposite wanted to see us go in, in terms of transparency, in terms of timeliness of decisions. That’s why it was very, very surprising that the PCs joined with the NDP and pulled those measures out of the budget. It made no sense, since it was the direction that they were pushing us to go in.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Final supplementary?

Mr. Tim Hudak: It’s disappointing, Speaker, that every day this Premier seems to mouth the exact same words that Dalton McGuinty mouthed on these exact same issues. I thought she was trying to move beyond that, but she seems very much to have the same viewpoints as her predecessor.

The choice was clear. Municipalities opposed your bill; we did as well. You’ve chosen your path. You’re on the side of public sector union bosses. We’re on the side of taxpayers. We’re on the side of municipalities. We’re on the side of front-line services, on this side of the House.

I would like the Premier to know that Mr. Wilson, the member for Simcoe–Grey, will be introducing the Capacity to Pay Act, which is exactly what municipalities have asked for and exactly what Don Drummond, your hand-picked economist, had recommended. We stand behind Mr. Wilson’s bill. Premier, will you do the right thing and stand up for taxpayers instead of union bosses and endorse Mr. Wilson’s bill?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you. Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Again, I am very, very proud of our government’s record on supporting municipalities, working with municipalities, uploading the costs that were downloaded onto their tax base. That was far and away the clear issue when municipalities came to us and said, “We need relief on this.”

They also said, “We need help on interest-based arbitration.” We put measures into the budget that were designed to create timeliness, to create transparency. They were absolutely the direction that we needed to go in. After speaking in favour of that direction, after speaking in support of those changes, the party opposite worked with the NDP to remove those from the budget and it made absolutely no sense. It meant that we were not able to move ahead with those changes to the interest-based arbitration system that would have made it more transparent. That’s the direction that we needed to go in.

ARBITRATION

Mr. Tim Hudak: Back to the Premier: I’m not going to let you off the hook on this. You have made your choice to line up with the government union bosses. We’re going to stand for taxpayers, for front-line services, and if you won’t show leadership, we will with Mr. Wilson’s bill that will fix a broken arbitration system in our province.

I’ll refer the Premier to

chapter 15, page 372 of the Drummond commission recommendations. Mr. Drummond, who we all respect, I think did a very good job in giving a direction on how we can get out of this fiscal mess. Mr. Drummond, Speaker, recommended 13 specific changes to fix the arbitration system. Mr. Wilson, the member for Simcoe–Grey’s bill incorporates all 13 of Mr. Drummond’s recommendations. I’ll ask the Premier, who, I would assume, has faith in Mr. Drummond: How many of Mr. Drummond’s 13 recommendations are you prepared to accept?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: We took direction from Don Drummond. He said that interest-based arbitration was a system that needed to be fixed. What was bewildering, Mr. Speaker, was that the party opposite wouldn’t work with us and did not see that the changes that we had put in the budget bill actually would have made some reform to the interest-based arbitration system that would have helped.

The member opposite talks about front-line services. In terms of support for the people of Ontario in making sure that services are delivered, we know that uploading the costs from the municipal tax base, supporting municipalities in their ability to deliver services to their communities and making sure that those costs that were downloaded by the previous government are now being uploaded—that was the single most important thing we could do to make sure that those front-line services at the municipal level were delivered to the people of Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary.

Mr. Tim Hudak: I’ll remind the Premier: Of the reforms that Dalton McGuinty brought forward that you have embraced, you implemented fully one out of 13 of Mr. Drummond’s recommendations. Even to the extent that you’ve watered down standards in our education system, surely one out of 13 is nowhere close to a passing grade. We believe that we should implement all 13 of Mr. Drummond’s recommendations. The Association of Municipalities of Ontario agree with us, and we’ll bring forward a bill to do so.

We’re very concerned with the agreements that arbitrators are giving out. That means a reduction in front-line services. It means higher taxes for families, and we think fundamentally that these decisions need to reflect private sector realities: the ability of taxpayers and municipalities to pay these bills. If Don Drummond is with us, municipalities are with us and taxpayers are with us, Premier, why aren’t you?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: To the Minister of Labour.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: I am very surprised by the line of questioning that we’re getting from the official opposition, because I was the parliamentary assistant to the Minister of Finance when Bill 55, the spring budget, was being debated in the committee, and I was surprised, and so were the government members at that time, at how the opposition party, at that time, voted against those suggestions. They were coming straight from their platform in many instances, and they had no reasonable response as to why they were voting against those proposals that actually met what the Association of Municipalities of Ontario was asking for. They were really satisfying the needs of the opposition party.

We put proposals in place that brought timeliness to the interest arbitration process, that brought fairness and transparency. I ask the opposition party to support those changes so that we can provide a clear mechanism for our municipalities.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Mr. Tim Hudak: Back to the Premier, Speaker: It certainly is disappointing to see maybe a different face in the chair but to hear Dalton McGuinty’s voice over and over again here in the Legislature. I think people are looking for change.

Mayor Hazel McCallion, respected mayor of Mississauga, said the following: “It is reasonable that annual pay raises reflect the economic circumstances of the community they serve, and to be comparable to increases given to its other municipal employees.”

We, on this side of the House, agree with Mayor McCallion in that. We agree with AMO. We agree with Don Drummond. Quite frankly, somebody has to stand up for taxpayers who are footing this bill.

I worry with this competition between Premier Wynne and the NDP to win the fealty of the public sector union bosses at any expense. You can’t get blood from a stone. Will you stand up for taxpayers, Premier? Will you endorse the outstanding bill standing in Mr. Wilson’s name to fix the broken arbitration system and protect public services?

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: I think it’s really important to look a little bit in detail as to the proposals that we brought forward that the opposition parties voted against. More specifically, Speaker, what we were requiring was for interest arbitrators, when requested by a party, to provide written reasons demonstrating that they have given proper consideration to the statutory criteria. We were also creating a deadline for the issuance of interest arbitration decisions. Lastly, we were establishing a clear consequence for matters that failed to meet this deadline. Cases not decided within that required timeframe would be automatically referred to the Ontario Labour Relations Board for resolution.

Now, I’ve heard the Leader of the Opposition speak at AMO and other meetings, and that’s exactly the kind of things he’s been asking for, and we have actually provided for them in the amendments, but they voted against them.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: Work together with us—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock, please.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): We’ve reverted to something I’ve been asking us to avoid, and that is when somebody is putting a question, I’m hearing noise coming from the very side that’s putting the question, which prompts the other people to respond. And when somebody’s giving the answer, I hear a response from the people who are giving the answer, to prompt them. If that stops, we can cut down on this and get more questions in, in realization that all we want to do is put the question and get an answer.

New question.

HOME CARE

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is for the Premier—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I don’t need the member from Renfrew commenting right when I finish.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: I want to follow up with the Premier on some specific proposals on health care that I think we can achieve this year. I’ve been hearing that the government says that they like home care, and they plan to invest in it.

My question is a pretty simple one: Will the government actually commit to a five-day home care guarantee for Ontarians?

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Premier.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: The Minister of Health and Long-Term Care, Mr. Speaker.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I’m just delighted that the third party continues to come back to this question of how we can support more people in their homes, because that is where we have a great opportunity to provide care that people need, in the right environment, and that is in their home. So we are absolutely committed to investing more in the community sector, more in the home care sector.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Minister of the Environment, come to order.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: We have seen wait times come down—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): And the member from Leeds–Grenville, come to order.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: —and I welcome the opportunity to work with the third party to make sure that we do get the right investments in our home care sector. We’ve made great progress. There is more to do, and I’m delighted that we have a partner with the NDP on this.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Back to the Premier: Does the Premier believe that we need to fire nurses and close beds at hospitals in order to achieve a home care guarantee for the people of this province?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I think the member opposite, the leader of the third party, really does need to understand the transformation that is taking place in our health care system.

We simply must shift our health care spending. We’re not in a world where we can see 6% to 7% annual increases in our health care budget. That is not our reality anymore. That’s why we have to choose where we are going to spend our increases in health care spending, and we have decided, based on the advice of the entire health care sector, that where we have the greatest opportunity is in the home care sector.

Let me give some examples of the 4% community increase—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Northumberland. Bring it down.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: —that is facilitated by taking a stronger line on hospitals. In Erie-St. Clair: over $4.7 million to the CCAC to increase home care and reduce ALC rates. I’ve got other examples I’ll be more than happy to share.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Back to the Premier: When will the Premier move on cost-saving initiatives like a hard cap on CEO salaries in hospitals?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I think that our hospital sector is doing very difficult and very good work as they go through their budgets, understanding that historic increases are not in their future.

We are investing more in the community. In Niagara, at the United Mennonite Home, we’re increasing the number of personal support workers to provide overnight coverage for seniors living in supportive housing. In Brant, we’re supporting the Ontario March of Dimes for a community-based falls-prevention exercise program for at-risk seniors in their homes. In the Canadian Association of Mental Health, Haldimand-Norfolk branch, we’re providing nearly $800,000 for mental health and addictions support. That includes a mobile crisis support, intensive case management, and counselling.

Speaker, we are investing more in the community to keep people out of hospital.

HEALTH CARE FUNDING

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My next question is for the Premier. I’m concerned that the Premier and the Minister of Health are giving Ontarians a false choice. The government is suggesting that Ontarians can have front-line care in hospitals or they can have home care.

New Democrats have a balanced approach that provides a five-day home care guarantee, without firing nurses and closing hospital beds.

Why is the government saying that Ontarians have to choose between home care and hospital beds but refusing to move on basic cost-saving measures like capping the hospital CEO salaries?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: The Minister of Health and Long-Term Care has given some very specific examples of investments that we are making in health care in various parts of the province. The reality is that we are increasing—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Member from Hamilton East–Stoney Creek, come to order.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: —funding to heath care; we are increasing funding to hospitals—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member will come to order. Second time.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: But we also have to make sure that the right care is being delivered to people in the right venue. That does not mean that we won’t continue to make investments.

This morning, I joined the Minister of Health—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Northumberland, come to order: second time, maybe third.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: —and the Minister of Research and Innovation at Sick Kids Hospital; we made an announcement about the Ontario Brain Institute, that we’re going to continue to invest $100 million over the next five years in the Ontario Brain Institute, to look at issues like depression and Alzheimer’s. Those kinds of investments are going to make the health care system sustainable. They will save us money in the future and make people’s lives better.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Well, here’s what reality the people of this province are seeing: a government that says they’re improving home care, but some people are waiting as long as 262 days to get the support they need; nurses being fired and beds being closed in hospitals in Windsor and in London, while the government refuses to cap CEO salaries in the hospital sector.

Does the Premier understand that people are tired of hearing promises of change—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Minister of Transportation, come to order.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: —and getting the same old status quo over and over again?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: We have said clearly that there is more to do in home care; the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care has said it over and over again. In fact, we are committing more dollars to home care and providing more services to people in their homes and in the community. That’s what a large part of the health care transformation is about. It’s not about making a choice between acute care and home care; it’s about making sure we provide the right home care, the right acute care, the right supports for people in the community.

The leader of the third party shakes her head, Mr. Speaker, but the reality is that we have to find ways to make sure that the health care system changes with the needs of the people of the province, with an aging demographic, with different expectations on the part of those people who want to be in their homes and don’t want to be in an acute care bed. We’ve got more work to do, and I’m hoping we can work with the third party on this.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Speaker, I’ve heard the Premier talk many times about being interested in a balanced approach. For us, a balanced approach means helping seniors deal with illness at home without firing nurses and closing hospital beds; a balanced approach means capping six-figure executive salaries in hospitals so we can get 6,000 people off of home care waiting lists in this province.

Is the Premier ready to stop engaging in a conversation about a balanced approach and start taking action so Ontarians can have a five-day home care guarantee that we can afford?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: To the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I think what we have here is a failure to do the math. Our recommendation, our transformation of health care, does require that we hold the line on hospital expenditures so that we can invest more in home care. The NDP, I’m afraid, is wanting to have it both ways. They don’t want to make the decisions that will facilitate enhanced investments in home care.

The reality is, procedures that used to keep people in hospital for a week or two weeks are now performed as day surgery. The requirements for our hospitals are changing as our technology changes and as our population changes. We need to harness the savings that we can so we can accommodate the increased needs of our seniors, as our population ages, in their own homes.

AIR AMBULANCE SERVICE

Mr. Frank Klees: My question is to the Premier. After 15 days of public hearings into the Ornge scandal and some 57 witnesses, it was confirmed in the course of those hearings that the Ministry of Health had very specific authority and responsibilities to oversee Ornge. In fact, the director of the emergency health services branch said under oath the following: “I agree that the Ministry of Health and the emergency health services branch have and had oversight responsibilities, and that oversight responsibility was basically set in line by the Ambulance Act, by the performance agreement and by the transfer-of-payment accountability directive.”

Given confirmation through those sworn testimonies that the ministry had specific authority, why is there no one in the Ministry of Health or any other department of the government that has been held accountable for their lack of oversight?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: To the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Speaker, I am very, very pleased that Ornge has made enormous progress over the past year. I think the member opposite would acknowledge that Ornge is a much more responsive, transparent organization now than it was just a year ago.

We’ve got a new culture at Ornge. It is putting patients first. It is respecting taxpayers. It does respect transparency. Dr. Andrew McCallum is now firmly entrenched as the CEO at Ornge. He is an exceptionally well-qualified person for this job. The volunteer board of directors is taking their responsibility extremely seriously, Speaker.

We are very proud of the progress that we’ve made, and I think if you’re looking for accountability, we take full accountability for the situation at Ornge.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary.

Mr. Frank Klees: Speaker, it’s not the accountability of Ornge or the transparency of Ornge we’re concerned about in this question; it’s about the accountability and transparency of the Ministry of Health.

The new Premier is picking up where the old Premier left off, refusing to answer questions directly on this important issue.

My question is this: Rather than hold the minister accountable, she promoted the minister to Deputy Premier. Rather than hold the deputy minister, Mr. Saäd Rafi, accountable for his failure of oversight, he got a raise. I’d like to know from this Premier: Will she conduct her administration in a more transparent, more accountable way than the former Premier, who did everything he could to deflect responses about this issue?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Speaker, I’m very pleased that we have been quickly able to reintroduce legislation respecting air ambulance service in Ontario. It does strengthen oversight; it does strengthen transparency. I very, very much hope that the member opposite and his entire caucus support this bill, now Bill 11, so that we can complete the task that was given to us by the Auditor General.

There were serious problems at Ornge. The entire board is gone; the entire senior executive team is gone. It is a new era at Ornge, and this legislation is vitally important. I urge the member opposite to quit playing politics with this and get on with fixing the problem. He has an important part to play.

AUTOMOBILE INSURANCE

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: My question is to the Minister of Finance. In 2010, this government slashed benefits paid to Ontario drivers by 50%. These changes resulted in $2 billion of annual savings for the auto insurance industry. This resulted in savings far more than tackling fraud alone, yet in the past two years, drivers have paid 5% more in premiums. Why won’t this government commit to passing the billions of dollars in savings on to drivers in Ontario?

Hon. Charles Sousa: Mr. Speaker, thank you for the question. As I’ve stated before, we do not want rates to be increased any further. We recognize that we need to do better than the status quo, but let’s be realistic with what we’re dealing with here. The costs of claims in Ontario are 10 times higher than the costs of claims in other provinces. That relates to the cost of premiums. We’ve taken steps in the past to try to minimize that price increase.

That’s why the price only increased by 0.26% since 2006, but we need to do better than that, and I will work with the opposition from both sides to make that happen. We’ll look at taking the steps necessary to get at the root causes before us. We need to do better, and we will.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary question.

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Mr. Speaker, we definitely need to do much more. Everyone agrees that we need to tackle fraud, but drivers deserve a guarantee that any new recommendations implemented, any new steps taken, are connected to lower premiums for drivers in Ontario.

Over the past two years, drivers have seen their rates go up time and time again. In my meeting with industry CEOs on Friday, I made it clear to them that this is simply unacceptable. Why won’t this government commit right now to reducing auto insurance rates in this province by 15% over the next year?

Hon. Charles Sousa: Let me be clear: We’re taking steps to do just that. We do want to reduce rates. We do want to do better in Ontario because in relative terms to the other provinces, we are paying too much. That’s the problem, because the costs are also extremely high in Ontario versus other provinces. We need to get at those issues.

But let me also be remindful here that while our rates have gone higher, but below inflation, it’s not acceptable still. We need to do better. Even Sid Ryan makes a point of saying, over a “Million union members in Ont. I have not heard one say they want an election over auto insurance.”

We need to work together to make this effective, and I will do that with you as well.

BRAIN RESEARCH

Ms. Helena Jaczek: I was pleased to hear in the throne speech that brain-related illnesses are a priority for this government. In my riding of Oak Ridges–Markham, I often hear—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): And you’re adding, too. I’m making a list. Okay, thank you.

Question, please.

Ms. Helena Jaczek: In my riding of Oak Ridges, I often hear from my constituents how they and their families are dealing with the challenges of Alzheimer’s, autism, epilepsy and mental health and addiction. I think we’re all aware that Ontario is home to many world-class research institutions.

Mr. Speaker, through you to the Minister of Research and Innovation: Can the minister please let us know specifically what actions this government is taking to ensure an ongoing commitment to brain research?

Hon. Reza Moridi: Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the member from Oak Ridges–Markham for that question. Brain disease is a serious illness for Ontarians. One in five Ontarians, at some point in their lifetime, will develop some kind of brain disease. That’s about 2.6 million people in Ontario.

That’s why this government is proud to announce this morning that we are investing $100 million over the next five years at the Ontario Brain Institute. This investment will allow the Ontario Brain Institute to expand beyond its current research scope and to develop new research into depression and neurodegeneration.

Canada is among the top five countries in the world for neuroscience research, and this is in part due to the world-class research being done right here in Ontario at the Ontario Brain Institute. Tackling these issues is critical to this government’s commitment to fostering a fair society for all of us in Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Helena Jaczek: I’m glad that this government is continuing to invest in this critical research. It’s clear that research investments have profound impacts, not only here in Ontario but throughout the world. We are making Ontario a leader in brain research and are helping to improve the health of all Ontarians. But, because of their neurological disease, many Ontarians are not achieving their full potential, and there is an impact on our economy through lost workplace productivity.

Could the minister please let us know how today’s announcement will affect Ontario’s economy?

Hon. Reza Moridi: I thank again the member for that insightful question. Brain diseases have devastating social impacts, but in Ontario, they also have an estimated commercial and economic impact of $39 billion annually. Addressing these challenges will have a positive impact on Ontario’s economy.

The annual global market for nervous system diagnostics and therapeutics is estimated to be $130 billion every year and growing by 10%. We are lucky here in Ontario to be competitive in this market, with over 500 top neuroscientists conducting world-class research at the Ontario Brain Institute. It’s clear that our commitment to research and innovation is strengthening Ontario’s economy while ensuring we all have a fair society in this province.

POWER PLANTS

Mr. Victor Fedeli: My question is for the Premier. Premier, we know you were briefed in 2011 on the Oakville gas plant cancellation. We know you received a cabinet document on Project Vapour. Yet you continue to say that you weren’t part of any decisions on this billion-dollar scandal. Recently, you made a subtle change to say you “weren’t in the room” when those decisions were made.

Premier, your credibility on the gas plant scandal continues to vaporize thanks to your ever-changing words. You say one thing, but you do another. Enough of this charade. You owe us the documents. Will you finally turn over the secret gas plant documents to us today?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: To the government House leader.

Hon. John Milloy: As the honourable member is well aware, we have a committee of the Legislature which is seized with this issue and will have an opportunity to examine documents. Government members have already indicated the willingness of the government to provide all documents.

We’re also very much looking forward to hearing from the opposition about their reasons for supporting the removal of the Mississauga plant, the fact that they were on the public record, everything from news releases to Twitter to YouTube to the Steve Paikin show, with the Leader of the Opposition being very clear that if he had been elected Premier, he would have cancelled it. Certainly, all of us are looking forward to the detailed policy analysis and accounting and financial work that I’m sure the Progressive Conservatives gave and I’m sure they will bring forward to the committee.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary.

Mr. Victor Fedeli: Speaker, we’re not talking about what if; we’re talking about what is. What is missing on these whited-out pages? What is missing in the documents from the Premier that we don’t have? What is in those answers that we have questions for? What is in the OPA documents that were removed because of privilege, when privilege doesn’t apply here?

We have an admission from the Premier that all documents will be released. Well, that actually means there are indeed more documents. No more what ifs; what is? What is in these secret documents, and will we have you turn over the Liberal Party documents today?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Be seated, please. Thank you.

Government House leader?

Hon. John Milloy: As I said, the committee will be dealing with all these issues, but I would have thought that the honourable member would have had more confidence in his leader’s ability to have won the last election. I had a request for this today from someone. They want to hear the text of the Mississauga South PC candidate’s robocall.

Here we are: “Hi there. This is Geoff Janoscik, your Mississauga South Ontario PC candidate. I’m calling about the McGuinty-Sousa power plant that the Liberal government decided to build in your backyard. I am against this power plant, and as your MPP, I will fight to stop the power plant from being built.... Our team has been out knocking on doors every single evening for several months, talking about the power plant and making sure that we defeat the Liberals in this riding and put an end to their bad decisions. On October 6, choose change that puts our community first.”

In the words of the Leader of the Opposition when it came to the Mississauga power plant, “done, done, done.”

CASINOS

Mr. Jonah Schein: My question is to the Premier. Toronto city hall is filled with lobbyists who are pushing for a downtown casino. In fact, Toronto’s deputy mayor is so concerned, he has asked to ban lobbyists from city hall. This decision should be made by the people of Toronto, and it should not be made behind closed doors.

Speaker, will the Premier agree to hold referendums on casinos so that people can have their say?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I appreciate the question. I know the Minister of Finance will want to comment in the supplementary.

I’ve been very clear that the decision to site a casino in a municipality is up to the municipality. The decision on what kind of consultation that the municipality wants to do is up to the municipality, because different municipalities will have a different take on whether they want to have a referendum, whether they want to do a different kind of consultation. But it is up to the community to make that decision. It is not up to the provincial government; it is not up to OLG. It is up to the community. I have been very clear and consistent that that is exactly the position that we will take: We will not be interfering in those decisions.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Jonah Schein: Back to the Premier: I’m hearing a no. I see that the halls of Queen’s Park and the halls of city hall are swarming with lobbyists. We keep hearing about change here at Queen’s Park, but what people in Ontario continue to see is the same status quo. We see a government that continues to put well-connected insiders before the interests of the people of this province.

When it comes to casinos, the Premier is saying the exact same thing as her predecessor. Even Mike Harris respected people enough to let them have a say by referendum before imposing a casino on their community. Why won’t this Premier agree to hold referendums on casinos so that Ontarians can have their say?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I just want to say to the member opposite that I actually have confidence in the city council of Toronto and city councils around the province to make decisions. They are elected representatives of the people of the city, and I also have confidence in the people of Toronto and the people beyond Toronto to work with their city councillors—with their representatives at the municipal level—to make those decisions.

Our responsibility as a provincial government is to give municipalities the latitude to make those decisions. If a municipality wants to hold a referendum or if a municipality wants to do another kind of consultation, they should have the right to do that. We should not be imposing those restrictions on them.

Our position is municipalities have the right to make those decisions and, as I say, I have confidence in the city council of Toronto to make those decisions.

FAMILY CAREGIVER LEAVE

Ms. Dipika Damerla: My question is to the Minister of Labour. I think we can all agree that one of the most stressful things that can take place is to have a close family member diagnosed with a serious illness, not just for the person who has been diagnosed with the illness, but also for close friends and family. We also know, in a situation like this, how important it is for our loved ones to not only get the best possible care from our health care system, but also the help and support of their family during such a difficult and trying time.

We all know from personal experience how hard it can be to balance family and work at the best of times, and it can get next to impossible when somebody is really sick.

Minister, can you tell me what you are doing to ensure that the good people of Mississauga East–Cooksville do not have to choose between paying their mortgage and looking after their loved ones?

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: I want to thank the member for this very important question and her constant advocacy on this extremely important issue.

Our government recognizes the challenges that hard-working Ontarians face when they must provide care for a loved one while also working full-time, and we believe that the last thing Ontarians should worry about when the health of their loved one hangs in the balance is the stress of work or the fear of losing their job. That’s why our government already provides Ontarians with a personal emergency leave for up to 10 days or a family medical leave for up to eight weeks to care for a family member at risk of death.

But we know that there is a gap for those hard-working Ontarians who are increasingly caring for their elderly family members with a chronic acute medical condition, not to mention other family members facing serious illnesses that do not necessarily pose a risk of death.

I will be tabling this afternoon family caregiver legislation and I am proud that our government is following through on this commitment to Ontario’s families.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Dipika Damerla: Thank you, minister; this news will be very much welcome in my riding. I believe this is especially critical in light of the demographic challenges we face that are seeing more and more families caring for elderly parents. We know that home is the best and most preferred place for people to recover from an illness or injury, especially following a hospital stay. There is no doubt in my mind that home care helps improve an aging parent’s or a sick child’s quality of life. In addition, it frees up hospital beds and shortens wait times in emergency rooms, so it’s a win-win all around.

This is all part of the government’s focus on ensuring Ontarians are getting the right care in the right place.

I’m glad to hear this legislation is being reintroduced as soon as possible, as the minister indicated. Could he tell us if the proposed bill includes any changes from the previous bill?

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: As I mentioned, I am pleased to be reintroducing our family caregiver leave legislation this afternoon. These measures are something that caregivers across the province have been asking for. Extending job-protected leave to care for a loved one during a time of need is a policy that our government strongly believes is not only the right thing to do, but a real way to help our health care system support patients with the care they need in the setting that is best, often that is at home with the support of a family caregiver.

It could be the crucial difference between going home, where we know it is more comfortable and better for the patient, or an extended and expensive hospital stay.

To answer the member specifically, Speaker: There will be some new additions to the legislation to include provisions which complement the new federal measures in the Helping Families in Need Act. The proposed legislation would also provide leave for employees who are parents to care for a critically ill child or in cases where a child is missing or deceased as a probable result of a crime.

POWER PLANTS

Mr. Rob Leone: My question is to the Premier. When the last PC government was in power, it was confronted with a decision to build a power plant in the western GTA. After careful consideration and discussions with local residents, our government did the responsible thing and said no to the power plants because that’s the way governments are supposed to behave.

But this is a Liberal government that simply can’t say no. They said yes to locating the plants where they should never have been sited, yes to cancelling those plants to save some seats, yes to wasting hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars and yes to hiding documents from the people of Ontario.

Will the Premier stand up and tell Ontarians that it was only her government that ever thought locating the plants in Oakville and Mississauga were good ideas?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: To the Minister of Energy.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: I thank the member for the question. You know the party on that side has had energy policies—has a white paper on energy. We should really examine what they’re saying on that side of the House. For example, they want to privatize OPG. You know what? Ernie Eves wanted to privatize OPG, and when he tried to do it, energy prices went up 30%. Not only that, when they were managing the energy system, Tom Long, who was the Leader of the Opposition’s co-campaign manager, made off with $1.3 million in Hydro One contracts. That’s the record, Mr. Speaker.

Of course, the firm of the Leader of the Opposition’s co-campaign manager received $250,000, which the Leader of the Opposition later called a bargain.

We have a policy that makes sense in placing our electrical generation. We will continue to do it with credibility.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Rob Leone: It takes a decision to build a power plant to come before a decision to cancel it. It takes a decision to award power plant contracts that has resulted in hundreds of millions of dollars in cancellation costs. It’s taken a decision to obstruct the work of this Legislature that leads to a contempt charge on the floor of this House.

Your Liberal government made all of those decisions, Minister. Your decisions have tarnished the Liberal Party, thrown its caucus members under the bus, and the people of Ontario are left to foot the bill.

Will the Premier stand up and admit that it is her government’s decisions that have left it mired in scandal, and will she apologize to the people of Ontario for bilking hundreds of millions of dollars from their pockets?

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: In 2011, there was a provincial election campaign: All parties supported the relocation of the Mississauga plant. We were fortunate enough to be elected; they lost the election. We honoured that commitment. We honoured the same commitment that they made, Mr. Speaker. So we are making the right decisions. As a matter of fact, we have a community in Oakville that likes our decision. We have a community in Mississauga that likes our decision. We have a community in Sarnia–Lambton that likes our decision.

We have a community in Lennox in eastern Ontario—we have four parts of the province that like the decision that we made, that was a commitment that all three parties made. We’re proud of our decision, Mr. Speaker.

HEALTH CARE FUNDING

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is for the Premier. Yesterday in Windsor, 200 concerned citizens gathered at the Windsor Regional Hospital to protest cuts to beds and front-line staff. This was one of more than a dozen similar protests that were held around the province, Speaker. Even though the minister says that she’s okay with hospital cuts, I think it’s pretty clear that the people of Windsor, and many other affected communities, are not.

Will the Premier explain to patients and front-line care workers in Windsor how cuts can possibly make for a better health care system in their community?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: To the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I do know that across the province yesterday there were Ontario Health Coalition protests in various locations. I didn’t notice that they were celebrating the additional people who were being hired in the community.

You see, we are transforming our health care system. It is hard work, but people across Ontario are embracing the shift in health care spending. We are investing more in the community. We are investing more in home care. We are investing more in keeping people out of the hospital, because that’s the best way to deliver care to the most number of people.

It’s unfortunate that the NDP does not acknowledge that our health care system has to change. The status quo is not an option. What matters to me is that patients are getting the care they need, in the most appropriate place, as quickly as possible, and that’s what our transformation does support.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: In recent weeks, the people of Windsor have learned that they’re about to lose 34 nurses and that they’ll never see the 48 hospital beds promised to them by the Liberal government not so very long ago. We’ve also heard that Maryvale children’s mental health centre is being forced to cut 22 front-line care workers in a bid to shift resources from residential beds to outpatient services.

Now, more outpatient care should not—the minister needs to know this is what New Democrats think—come as a trade-off for other kinds of mental health services, particularly when everybody in Ontario acknowledges that mental health services are at a crisis low in Ontario. We need a balanced approach to addressing health care and mental health care services in the province.

Why is the Premier cutting health care staff and services first and asking questions later?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Speaker, I think I want to start by talking about funding at Windsor Regional Hospital, because I think it’s important to know that the funding has increased by 83% over a decade. It’s $220 million more this year, so there is an increase in funding at Windsor Regional Hospital.

When it comes to mental health and addictions, our government has done more for mental health and addictions than any government has in the past. I have to say that that work has been supported by the extraordinarily fine work of the Select Committee on Mental Health and Addictions that had membership of MPPs from all sides, chaired by the very, very capable member from Oakville.

We have made great strides. We have more to do, Speaker, but the implementation of our 10-year Mental Health and Addictions Strategy is on track and people are seeing the difference on the ground.

POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION

Mr. Joe Dickson: My question is to the Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities. We have many post-secondary students in the galleries today—if they’re staying here. They are here at Queen’s Park to talk with members from all parties about the issues facing their peers. These students are talking about the issues that we can all work together on, and I know this government is committed to helping all students in Ontario. A concern on campuses across the province is the mental health wellness of students. We can all agree that the health of students is something we all care about.

Mr. Speaker, through you, could the minister inform the House what the government is doing to help ensure that the post-secondary students have access to the mental health supports and the services they also need?

Hon. Brad Duguid: I want to thank the member for the question. Most of all, I want to thank the students who are here today to talk to all three parties about the important issues to them taking place in our post-secondary system. The member raises an important issue, as they’ll be raising it with us today, and that’s the issue of mental health services on our campuses.

We’ve been engaged in consultations with our post-secondary education partners, student groups, as well as mental health advocacy organizations, as we chart out our government’s plan to address mental health on campus. I can assure you there are a number of recommendations now that my ministry is taking a good look at. I’m looking forward to rolling out some of those initiatives in the very near future.

In the meantime, I’d like to commend all the student groups that are involved in advocating for this important issue. I look forward to working with them to bring forward even more progress in the days ahead.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary.

Mr. Joe Dickson: It’s good to hear that our government is taking action to address this important issue facing post-secondary students.

The students here also have said that they want to know what our government is doing to assist them with another important issue. The Ontario Undergraduate Student Alliance is currently calling for the first two years at all universities to be entirely transferable. For some students, this means transferring from college to university. For others, it means from one university to another. Students are mobile; so should their credits be.

Like the previous issue, I know our government is listening and taking action. Speaker, through you, could the minister update the House on the current status of the province’s efforts to help students graduate faster through credit transfer agreements?

Hon. Brad Duguid: I think the students who are talking to us today about credit transfer are making some very valid points and raising some very valid concerns. It is indeed one of our government’s top post-secondary education priorities because a strengthened credit transfer system reduces costs to students, to families and indeed to Ontarians and our government when it comes to the post-secondary education system.

Students have become more mobile, and the academic credits they earn should be more mobile as well. This is why in 2011 we established ONCAT, the Ontario Council on Articulation and Transfer. I’ve heard the recommendation from the Ontario Undergraduate Student Alliance and I’m pleased that they’ve chosen a very bold and aspirational goal and objective. Each year, over 4,000 student transfers take place between colleges and universities. That’s a huge increase to over 500 already-existing credit transfer articulation agreements. I look forward to working with students across this province as we continue to enhance credit transfer.

ELECTRONIC HEALTH INFORMATION

Mr. Michael Harris: My question is to the Minister of Health. Minister, last week the member for Oakville dropped a bombshell when he admitted that the Ministry of Health had failed to release all the eHealth documents requested by the estimates committee, and he didn’t just make that statement once. To members’ surprise, he conceded several times that the ministry is sitting on more documents related to the committee’s request. However, he suddenly changed his tune about those additional documents after a Liberal staffer scolded him for his Freudian slip.

I have a simple question for you, Minister: Was the member for Oakville right or wrong when he stated that the Ministry of Health will be releasing more eHealth documents?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: To the government House leader.

Hon. John Milloy: I appreciate the mischief that the honourable member is trying to make. I thin