Volume XL Tuesday Province of Newfoundland FORTIETH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND Fourth Session VERBATIM REPORT {Hansard) Speaker: Honourable P.]. McNicholas Number 33 10 May 1988

Th~~ House-:~ m(~~t. at 3:00p.m . MR. SPFAI<FI~ (McN:ichoJ.as) : Or·der·, plc,H:1BC:~ ! Statements by Ministers PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the Premier . PREMIER PECKFORD: 'r" JAJO u l d l :l k e t o r· e a d l€~tter that T sc-:!n'l:: and table a t.o The"" Right Honourable Joe CJ.ark today concerning the ongoing Canada/FranCE! situation, and I WOIJld lJ.kc-:1 to rc,~ad i.t into Lhe record as a Ministerial Statement . 11 DeaJ" Ml" .

Clar·k : l arn most distud>ed by rc~~cent comuH:!nLs u1adc,1 by you tn t:hc,1 1-/ouso of Commons in r·c,~sponse ·to a call for· Cant'-ldt:t to ll!>t~ <-:! conorni.c dnd diplomatic means to exert pr'E!Ssures on FrHnce to hr~lp resolve the Canada/France fisheries and boundary disputes. Our posit i on from the beginning has been, and continues to be, that l:hc-:! de termination of Canada 1 s boundary in IAJaters off the south coast of Newfoundland is a national issue not just a NewfoundJ.and :issue.

As such, i.t is surely not unreasonabJ.e for Newfoundlanders to expect the Government of Canada to use every diplomatic and economic lever and not fish alonE! - to achieve a resolution of this dispute with Fr·anc~~. 11 AN HON. MFMRFI~ : H <~ a r· , ~w a r· ! 1..1.71.3 May 1.0, 1988 Vol XI.. PREMIER PECI<FORD: 11 ln your r·r:!sponse l-.o c1:1l.l.s for· Canada to adopt broader measures L o r· o s o 1

l) r,, t: h i s :i. s s 1.1 (;! , y o u a r· E! quoted as saying that such mc,~asur·(~S IAJOI.Jl.d j c~opc:u·dtzo job!; in other parts of Canada. In par·t:i.culi:H', T und<-:!r·stcHld you rnr.~de spE:~cific refere!nces to possiblE! loss of 1,000 jobs at the Michelin plant in Nova Scotia. 11 They wer·e ver·y SUI"prisc~d, by UH~ IAJay, if anybody reads the media reports, to hE:~ar that Mr. Clark said that, the Micheltn people. 11 SUrE!ly jobs :in jc.;!opar·dy in Nr.;!tl,)foundland iH'E! equally as :important as jobs el.st~IAJi'lBr'<.;! 'in the country. 11 SOME HON . MEMBERS: He!ar, hc:,ar!

PREMIER PECKFORD: 11 '!:1: . . i. s mo s t . r· r: ~gr · ot.t d bl.(:~ l:: hi':\1:. in addressing t~is national boundary :i.SSIII) yo11 hc'll)r,~ I'IOIAJ r·E:~gton d 1t z r:~cl this issue furthE!Y' and appc-:~ar· to sugg(~st Uli~L 1-:i'H:~ rna :J.ni: H ni'HlCE:~ of jobs outside Newfoundland is of gr·(~ai:f.~r .i.mporttlnco than the maintenance of jobs in 1\JpwfoiJndLitnr:l . (1 l'li'l t.ional sovereignty issue of lh:is rnagrri .tude c,:lnnot be,~ addr·essr:~ d ·fr·o1n a narroJAJ regional perspectiVE!. 11 And I go on to say : 11 It must be rernembE,red ·th<:lt Canada 1 s str·at.egy for r'E!Solving this issue using fish as its onJ.y bar·gcdn:ing l<~wc,1r hc1s r·c~~sult.:ed .in a significant tonnage of fish being offered to France.

The tonnage offered already transJ.atE!S into approximately 700 real and potential jobs in the processing sE:~ctor· al.on(~ and a s:'i.m:i.l.i'H' nurnbE!r of jobs in the harvesting SE!Ct:or. T h c,~ Go

l) C.;! r n HIC-:! n t o f N ~~ IAI found J. and h a s alJ.uays ind:icated a JArillingm,ss to sh~ro :'i.n the cost of the r•esolution of Hli s national issUE! No. B Rl713

as reflected in our full support for· a re~asonable f:i.sh p~ckage involving surplus stocks. Surely, you would agr·~~e that. the price of a settlement of a national issue should be shared fairly by all rl:;lgions of Canada and not by Ne;!IAJfcHHJdland alone. 11 AN HON. MF.MBER: Hf:1ar, hear! PREMIER PFCKFORD: 11 Notw:i.thst:and:i ng you1" cornment .s, thr,~ GotJc,~r·nrnen l: of 1\Jr,'l~lfOIInr:ll.f.'lnd maintains thr'll the Gov·ernment of Ci.'tnarla does lnrleed hf.'lue f.'ln obligation to address thE! Cr:lnc\da/Frr:-lnce,~ d:i.sp11t:E:1 fr·o1n r.t national rather than from a rogional.

Fi.shcH·t~~s pc:H'SPf~Ci:. itJr~. I am ther·eforE! calJ.i.ng upon you to r·econs.id~:!r the~ approach IAJ~ri . ch you have taken on this matter. 11 SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. TULK: Mr. Sp<~aker· . MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Fogo. fJ!R. TULK: Ml". Speaker, let me say to the Pr•c,~mi.or·, for· this s.i.df:1 of t:he House, that IAJe endorse this letter IAJhol.r~hr~artedly, c\S We <.;!ndor·~;r~d l:he actions of th:is House~ of AssembJy on Fr·"i.di.'ly.

As a inaU : f ~ r of fact., i.f yo1.1 iAi"i.l.J. r·ecall, it IJJas this sidE:~ of the II 0 II ~; e,~ IAI h i c h I T. b f~ J. :i. (,1 l) (,1 r:-l L i.'l b 0 II 1: ten minuh~s to s:ix on Thursday last, r·osr,~ i.'lnd suggr~st:r:!d t:hi:\1:. lAIC:! do tAJhat IAJE~ did on last Fr·iday. It i s ar·rogr.\nt. in the extr·~: !lllr,~ IAJhr.\t the Prime Minister and what the nation~l. government have done. It is a national pr·oblem, and "i.t L1714 May 10, 19 8 8 Uol XL should be addrE!Ssed as such, tt s h o u l d be d e i'l.l t wi. t: h as s u c h . I n the meantime, while thE! PrirnE!

Minister of th:is country, Brian Mulroney, sits in his place in Ottawa and does nothing, our fishermen on the South coast of this Prou"i.nce h~ue to obta.in French fishing licences in order t () f -j_ S h :i 1'1 lAir:-\ hH' S t b d t t: h (~ y h i:'l V 8 always fished in. SOMG HON. MEMBERS: He,~ar, hear·! MR. TUL.K: Mr. Sp<,~c:\k~:!r', t:h:i.s J.at:.(::!sl:. tur·n of events shOIJ.JS something E!lse.

II:: sho1~1s t:hi.'tl: r•rd.i:ll:.:ion!; b~:!I:'.I.~HH!rl !.:his Province and Ottawa, and I s~y t.h"i.s l:o Lhf~ Pr·ouri .(H' q1d. te sincerE!ly, have not improVE!d a s hE! pr•omiS<.;!d I.IS thr~y IAJOUlcf :i. 11 1.984. If anything, they have dc~t.r·H'i<H'cl.tr:~d, and, I say to hirn, we feE!l the same way today as tAJO did with the factory Freezer trawler issue, when hJ.s collE!agUE!S in Ottawa ignored him then and gave three factory freezer trawler licences rather than the one we thought they were going to gJ.ue. T.l: "i.s not i.'l reg:ionr.1l 1ssue, Mr·. SpE!akE!r. I emphasiZE! that.

It is n o I~ d r· ~~ g i. o n r:·ll :i. s s ur.-:~ , .i. t. i s i:t boundary issue, and as a boundary ·i. sst t 0 :i. t: b (,~com£: ! s <Hl iss 11 r~ For· Canada. I also IJJa n t to b d. ef .l y , ·i. f T llli'"l y , sanctions against Wi.'ln'i.: to point minister- MR. SPEAKER: Or·der·, pl<~<;ls<~! MR. TULK: By leave? No. 33 addrr:~s S VE!Y'Y l:hr'! no ::. "'i.on of France, and I 011t that Ol.tr' R1714

MR. SPEAKF::R: Does the hon . member h~ve leave? MR. STMMS: Thirty seconds . MR. TUL.K: It was our Minis t er of Development, who was late coming to Lhc,1 scene, wi·HHl t:he rn~wrb<·:H' for· Twillingate (Mr. W. Carter), our s p o I< e s m a n o n f i s h co?. r· ·:i. c,1 s , a s k (~ d Uw 1r1 to introduce sanctions somE! tLIIO or thrC:1e tAHH:1ks ago. Mr. SpE!akE!r, what we are looking at here-?. is t.hc-?. br·eaking of anot.hc-?.r· political promise. There is no infliction of prosperity on this ProvincE!. MR. SPEAKER : Order, please~!! MR.

TULK: And until we S E ~e a change in the str' LicttH'H of govc,1rl'llnent :in Ot.t.i'ltAIH, thE! same~ ld nds of l:~l'.ings are go'.'i.ng t.o conLi. nue MR. SPEAKER : 0 r d e r· , p l e a s e ! MR. TU LK: - and our Premier hf.lS to be held r·espons:i.ble. SOME HON. MFMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SIMMONS: Good going! More! PREMIER PECKFORD : A point of order, Mr. Speaker, and of clarification .

ThC:1 GovernrrH :1 nt House LEH.ilder d -L d indicate at the time that leave was granb~d, evc,Hl though the hon. member was going over, but Lite were not intending to g:ive leRve for the han. member· opposite to lash I .. 1. 71 f.) M~lY lO, 1.9813 lJ o l X 1 .• 'i.nto the govc~!rrHIH:Hll:. i:Hld to do c\J.l those kinds of things. I1Jf~ t h 0 II g h t 1~)1,1 IAH:! r• f'! b <-?. ·:J. l'l q reasonable and fair in a l l owing l·. h C~ h 0 n . TIIC:Hflb (~! r 1~. 0 S IITrllfli'lr' .i 7.

C'! an cl compJ.etE:1 the s tateiTI(:1n t he hacl <.~ J. r c,1 ad y rn cu:l e , (:\1'1 d L h '" t. be oi. n g 1.~1 h a t we had thought, obviously that t.uc:~ s okdy. f.111t if i.:hc,1 hon . tnE!tnber 1.uants to get into a bi.g harangUE:! and <'ln attack or· \)O on, th~: !n obviously he cannot expect co .... ·opr·:H'a t .. ion . MR. TULK : To th<~ t Speaker . point MR. SPEAKER : of There is no point of order . MR. TULK: Am I allowed to speak to it? SOME HON . MEMBERS: 1\Jo. MR . TUJJ~: Mr· . A new point of order, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: A point of order, t.hE! hon . the rnc,nnbc,~r for· Fogo. MR .

TULK : Let me teJ.l the Pr·emiE!r that whE!n t:hc,~ Govc,~r·nlriCc1 nt of Can<~da is Lltrong we will speak against l':hE! Government of Canada, and wh e n t:he Government of Newfoundland and L t.~br·ador· i.s IAJrong, lAIC-?. lAii. Ll spc,~ak agai.nst that governiTIE!nt. And j n t.hi. s case t·:.l·wy have,, scnnetl'l'ing to answer for. SOME HON. MEMBERS: H e a r· , h c,1 a r ! MR. SPEAKER : Ord er, please! Order, please! There i s no poin t of order . 1\Jo. 3 3 RJ.'71.5

MR. FENWICK: Mr . Sp~~aker· . MR. LONG: WhE!rE! is the today? What common ground? MR. SPEAKER: common ground happened to here i:.he The han. the membc.:!r' for· Mc'mih~~k. MR. FENWICK: Mr·. Spe:~aker, I am pleased that thE! Prc,~mi~H' h&u; m;:ldc,~ thJ.s stdl:.lo!TIH~nt today. Unfortunately, last Ft·idr.~y, wh~Hl l· : hr,~ ~~lllerg~HICY dc,~bat:e was heJ d, I IAJas at my son 1 s high school gr·adtJ,:lt.·i .on on i:h(,~ ll\lc:!S'l: Coast of the Is1i'Hld and was unable 1·.: o a t t c,~ n d .

I r· c,~ g r· c,~ 'r: t: f~ d t h •:'I. t , b~~cause thc,~rE:~ are certain rnom~~nts i.n Lhe Hotts<:~ tAJhc,11'l on to~d.she~> to be her·e. Howeve1", I Lt.JilJ just take a rni.nut~:! or· so to Si:lY I stJpport t:h(:! resolution wholeheartedly that was pasSE!d last Fr·id,:~y and I alfl pleased to see that the government is continuing with the very defensible position that it is an national issue, that it has to be dealt with with national levers, and that is the only way indeed that we IJJi11 ever get any kind of a resolution to it.

But one I would have suggested that may be looked at, is, as I under·stand the econolfly of St. Pier·re and MJ.quelon, tJJhich is not one"! thr.1t IAJE! par·ticuJ.,:·lrly IAJan+: to damage but Js UtE! focus of this c.;!nlir·c~ di.sptltc,1, ·i. L :i.s rny understanding theJr tourism i.ndus Lry is IAJor· U·1 <:~bout h,Hl tJtiiW> Hw incom(~ th;~t lhei r· fisher·y tnd11s l·:r·y :i.!;, i:lnd l:l'ldt l:hr,~ fcH·r·y st::n·vtce back cHid for·th between St:..

P·i.C'!YTf~ dnd 011r OIAJI'l Pr•otJi.nce 1nay ~H1 looked at in terms of saytng, IJII~>.J.J., i.nsb>.cHi of d do.l.CcHl t.r·tps i:l day, or IJJhatev~~r :is :involvE:H~, IAJE>. nright look i:'lt Htclybc~ on~~ or· l:.to~Jo trips a IJJe~>.k, in IJJhich case IAJE! can Ll716 May 10, 1988 Vol XL exert the kind of pressure VE!ry, very locally that may actually bring the French to sorne sort of r~>.asonable conclus·ion of the IAJhole dispute. Having said that, Mr. Speaker, I endorse the actions of our own provtnd.al government and I thj.nk ·it. is vc'!r'y :i.rnpor·t.ant that.

IAJB continue to push for a sEd~tleiTIE!I'l't there . I know, in our contact w:ith. the fishermE!n in that ar~:!c:l, thdt th0y dre getl1ng more and more d<:~sper·atE! to find somE! so1"t of soluLton L:o Lh:i.s isstlr>., <'lnd .l.t must come to a hE!ad soon. Thank 1J o 1.1 , IJ 1;! r· y lfl u c h , M t' . ~) p c,~ .:1 k <'! r· . SOMf HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hE!ar! MR. RIDEOUT : M r· . S p c,1 a k '"! r· . MR. SPEAKER: The hon . the MinistE!r of FishE>.riE!S . MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Last year rny department was approached by the Quidi Vidi/Renni.es River Development Foundation for financial assistance to help in the construction of a major i.nterpretatiue facility on the shores of Long Pond in Pippy P t.H' k . T h :i. s p r· o j (>. c l· .L s p <:H' l o f a long term development strategy dc,~si.gned l:o ~:!nhe1ncr>. Lhf~ RE!nnic;!S River IAJater system in St. John 1 s. The main focus of Lh:i.s J. 1'1 [: ~:! r p Y' (,~ 1: 1:\ +·. :i. IJ (c1 f d C ·i.

J J I:, Y -i. s :L n I: he,~ area of freshwater E!C01ogy, p a t' 1:. i. c 111 d r· 1. y a s i. t. r·el.dtc.:~s l·.:o IJJ:i.ldlife habitat and the lifE! hJstory of salmonids. Al f.: hough this r· f>. q 1.1 ~~ s t for· fund ·in g is sornetJJhat different than the No. 3 3 R17l6

fisheries related projects that we nor·rnal.ly i:<~ssi.st, T f(~el. thai~. th'i.s center will provide a valuable oppor·l:un'i.i : y for' l:hH g<,~nen~J plibl.:i.c: to gain a greater understanding of 1:: h (o! (~co J. o g :i. c: Hl r' (~ J. i':l t. ions h J p :; 1~1h i. c h E:~xist ~in our aquat:ic hatdtat. A C E! n t'. (~ r 0 f (·~ h :i. S rl <:-1 t'. II r' A IIJi. l J. compl<·:HIIE:~nt th<,~ efforts of the D(~p,:'lrt.W;!nl: of F:i.shF.!ri.es 'i.n educating the genera] public on ti·H,~ signlf.i.c<:HlCE~ of our fr·es h1~1a l':er· resources.

It may also provide soln<,~ degr·t::~t~ of -Lns-.Lght ·inl::o the management aspects of our fish and wildlife resources. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, it gives m<-?. great pleasure to announc<-?. today that my department has awarded · the Quidi Vidi/Rennies River Development Foundation a grant of $ 2 0 , 000 to as s t s t t h <:WI in the construction of a fluvarium or st.r<.;-arn tank 1.~1h . i.ch w:ill b<,~ constructed as a part of the i. n t e r' p r' e t a t i.

l) e fa c i 1 i. t y . r h :i. s fadlity t..ui.ll accommodate visitors with a w'i.de range of :interests, fr·om studE!I'Jts and tour·ists to posl:-secondary c1ctsses from Memorial University and· the Institute of Marine Technology. l L: i.!; dl.so tny tll'ld(~rstrHldJng, r"'r . Speaker, that the Development Foundation is presently nego-t:i.at:ing to tncorporate a ftsh h~tch(H'Y and lc.·lborator·y spdU1 'i.nl".o Uw:i r interpret.:attve center in conjuncti.on with !:he Marine Institute 1 s Fisheries Management Programme.

This would provide Ul'.is Pr·ovince u.dth a totally unique interpretative and educational center which would provide one further ~ddition to our Province 1 s center of excellence policy in regards to our marine environment. Mr. Spei:~k~~r, I IAiould likE!, at this l:ime, to congratulah~ Uw QwJ.d:t 1..1717 May 10, 1988 Vol XL Vidi/Rennies River Development fc)llndat:ion for und<,1rtak:i.ng l:h:is most worthwhile project and wish tl·H~Ifl f.;!VfH'Y SI.ICCf~SS "i.n l:he completion of this programme. I Just want to Sc'lY to hon.

HH~ HI b ('! r' s , rJl r' . ~:) p (~a k E! r· , +.: hat you a n cl I had the great pleasure yesterday of participating Jn the pr'E!sentation of thE! cheque to thE! F<)llndai:'i.on on bE:~hr.ll.f of the'! gov e-rnrnE! nt. MR. W. CARTER : Mr. Speaker' . MR. SPEAKER : Th<->. hon. for Twillingate!. MR. W. CARTER: Mr . SpaRker, T welcome this announcement on the part of the rrr'i.ni.sl~(~r. I l::hi.nk that. lri<HlE!Y spent in that are! a is monE!Y we 11 sp(~nt.. JL -Ls on<,~ of l::he most. attractive areas in St. John 1 s.

I i:\Trl SIH'O i'l J.ot of 0 i::I'HH' 111ern~HH'S have had occasion to t.o~Jalk up l'.:hat t r a i. l f t' ~~ q 11 c,~ n t l. y . ·.f. a rn ex c it. (o! d by the prospect that the kinds of l.:h:i. ng s t:h1,1 m:J. nJ. s t<,~r· ou t:l 'i. r!(o!d in his statement will be taking place . Hau:ing sajd that, Mr. SpE!akE!In, I tnusL ~::d':J ( i.'lrn hr.tlJ.oi.ng l:.r·oubl.e reconciling the involverrHHlt of the;! DepcH'tlrlfHlt of F i.sl'HH':i.<-?.s .

I l.IJOI~ld have expected that that project IAIOUJd i·H·lVF.! b~H,Hl suppor'I':E!d, maybe, by the Department of Tourism or s Olrl(,~ o t h <~ r' d <::1 pa t'l.rnE! n 1:. of governmE!I1't. As important: and as a t. 1: r· a c t .. i. v e a s .i. t i. s , I am h o p :i n g that the $20,000 that the minJster has announced today as being allocated to the Quidi Vid:i/RennJ~:!S R"iUf:!r Dev<->.loprrH;!nt Foundation, will not be taken from t h <:~ m'i. n is t f:! t' 1 s v o t (,~ . B 1'::~ c au s r,~ I can think of a lot of thi.ngs in rtH'f.·ll 1\J~~wfoundJ.Hnd today that <::.tl"e No. 3 3 R1717 ·~

mort~ fi.shc~1r·i.es rc"!J.d·r.c"!d i.'\nd CEH'ta:i nly more important in terms of helping to prov'i.de nec"!d~H:l facilities for fishermen to pursue their livelihood. Again, Mr. Speaker, hav ·ing sai.d that, I do not want to give the impression that. we opposc~1 the a1..uarding of this grant. We just have some r<-?.S<"! rvat:i.ons as t.o fr·orn Llthat source it should come. I, loa, Mr·. Sp ~ ~akc·H', on bc"!hal.F of rny colleagues, would like to c ong ratu 1a te t. he Qtli.d:i. V:idi/Renn i es River Development F o 1.1 n d '~ t .i o n . I 1: h ·i. n k 1:'. he y i'\ r• H doing an excE:1]]ent job.

I think t h r~ a r H d .i. n q u <:1 s t :i. o n .i. s •'\ n a r e i:'l t,o.li t h p r· o b a b J y t he g r· eat e s t to u r i s t p o t. t'Hl 1'.: i. a J. o n U11,1 A lJ Rl o n P ~Hl -i. n ~n t l d . T dl'tt i:.ol.d thai: Rr-Hll'dr,~s Roi.lJnr i.tseJf is one of the best trout r·.ilH!rs in l': hc-~ Pr·o1Ji.ncr~1.

T ;:\tn dt~Jightc"!d that City Council and my coll.~~CJ.gue, of cour•sf~, Fr·om Waterford Kenmount, who serves on the Ci.ty Council. and undoubtedly has had a hand in what "i.s go:ing on l: hc"!re, have seen fit to rE:1Cognize the outstanding tourist. potential of that area and have taken the iniatives that they have-:'! taken in its r·estor·at.i.on and development. Mr. Speaker, again t..ue welcome this annotmcemc"!nt and Llr.ish the-?. Quid .i Vidi/Rennies River Development Fottndat.ion evc;!ry succ~1ss. SOME HON . MEMBERS: Hear·, hear! MR. LONG: Mr·. Speaket" . MR. SPE(.)KFR: The hon. the m~>. rnber for· St.

John 1 s F. as i· .. MR. I .. ONG : L. 17] 8 May 10, 1988 Vol XL Wc-:1 Lltoul.cl <.·1lso ;:~dd otH' congratulations to the continuing good t~tor• k of U1e Quid i V o.i.d i Foundation. We also welcome the iHll'lOtJncc-:'!mc-:'l nt by l::hc-:l minist:or today, although I would haVE! sornE! con c c-:'l r· n s 1.~Ji . t h 1: he tJJa y l: he announcemE!nt is being madE! and thE! lack of a coherent approach by the government in giving support to t. h :i s· lHH' y e x c i. t. i n g a n d s "i. g n i. f i c i:Hl t development in th~ city.

I understcwd that the pr·ojE:1ct that i': h J s g r· a n 1·. :i s d -L r ~~ c 1': 1 y g o ·.i n g towards, the $20,000 for the rllfl)iH'.i .lltn r,Hld of' l::he Qu:'i.ch. V:idi route, which actually begins, of COIIt'SO, dOI!Jn d'l: i':I'H~ 'l.dkH 'i. n (\)u i. di Vid:i, in my OIAtn d:istric-t., and runs a l. 1. t h i" o 11 g h 1: h c.~ o J. d r:! r· pi.'\ r +: o F 1:: h E! city and, t.hen, t.~.t:i.l.l E~nd up at l.ong Pond . iiopefuJ .l.y l.hc,1 ·:i.nt:E:!n'l.: is to haVE:1 a shoLIJCaSE! ther'E! that, as UH>.

Ht"i.n:i.sl':c-H' l:ml.ks i.itbout:, should be quite an exciting pr·ojecl:. aut T. under·sl::and t:hr:1y are still having financial d i f f t c ul U . t~1 s · J n b e :i. n g a b 1 E! t~ o p u t in a plan for the nE!Xt couple of years to ensure that: i':hi. s will happen. To my knoLitledgE!, this is thE! fir·st referl':1nce that hi\ls bE'!(:!n rnad~~ :in this House by any repreSE!ntatJ ve of gOlJer-rHnent t.o the;! t~Jor · k oF the Foundation and to the project that Uw y h i:W e b r,H:'tl de v C.;! 1 o p i. n g v e r· y much on their own in the last coup 1 (,1 or Y(Hilr' S . AN HON.

MEMRER : Thfn·r;! h.:~s ~HHHl other rnorH'!Y . Mr~. LONG: Y 0 s , T 1.1 n d o r· s l: i'1 n d 1··. h c,1 r· ~ : ! h ;:·\ s b (;! e n othr:H' money, but this is Lh,,~ f:i .r·st t ·iffiE! +: hdl : H st:,:li :f'!HIC:!I'll·. hi:\ S b~: !~: !l'l made 1.1dth rE!fE-)rencE:1 to t he good s wor•ks l::l'lt'll.: l:hey c'\r'O doing. 1.'1:: :is No. 3 3 R1718

positive-?. to ~H-?.ar the M:i.n-i.st:c,1r of Fj sheries come in and ta1k about H1 e u <'I l. lH! U1 i'l -t ~w s c.~ c.~ s HducationaJ ly and in tE!rms of the dc-?.v~~loprn~:!nl: of l::hr,1 sci.r~!nCt:1 r:<1nd b~chno1ogy that IAJould go j nto thE! fl.uv;,u· :ir.nn. I would just s<.·ty, fu'!r. Speak(:~!~, t·.hat I be1ieuc~ thE!Y'c,~ is HJO r· c~ t lri. s go lJ f:! r· nrnr.:! n t·. co 111. d do :i. n enhancing the devE:~loprm~nt of the lAlor· k of I.: he~ Fou ncli.'l i·.::i.o n. MR. SPEAKFR : Or·der·, pleas~~! MR. I. ONG: 0 1:: h (.;! rtAri.

S Co~ , IAH:1 S ~~ ~~ i. 1': i.·\ S d l) ~~ Y' y postt:i.VE!, irdtia] step and we hope that we wlll hear more from the governmE!nt on this proj ec ·t. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. ~EMBERS : Hc.:lar·, hear! MR. BARRETT: Mr. Speaker . MR. SPrAKER: The hon. the of Oeve1opment. MR. RARRETT: Mr·. Sper.l!<E:~r, l:hc,~ Pr·o1nol~ i.oni'll. Services Ojvision of my rlc,~pHrl~rrH~nt, l:hf:!

TrcHI:~, Trwosbnc,1nl-. and Promotion nr·anch, has as Jts rni'lnd''' l~e l'·.I·H~ pt·ornot'ion of· UH~ industridl and tour:ism dco!Ve]oprnt:Hlt o p flo r L u nit ·i. t:~ s of L h c,1 Pro tJ :i. n c ''! b 1J util:izjng mass rnco•d:ia adv~?.rtis:ing, pr·c,~ par·at:ton and pubJ.Jc.:·ll.:ion of promotional literature, partic-i.pation in Lrarle fairs, exhibitions and international trade missions, and providing guidanCE! and general assistance to industrial prospects.

The objectlve of the Promotional ServJces Division is to create an awareness w:ithin the national and international marketplace of the L1.7l9 May 1.0, l98H Vol XI .. investment potential to within the Province, r.~xpc.:!r'lise ;:1nd r·esour·c~:!S from Newfoundland and b(;! found of the avaJl.abJ.e L.abl"ador businesses and orgHnizHtions, and by for· the assistance provided go tJ f;! t' nrnr,~ n l: c,1ntr~~prEHletH'S. Th:is d:i.v:ision meets th:is objE!ctJ .vp 0 n t: IAIO J. c,~ lJ c~ l. :; : F :i.

I" ~; t. , t. h f:! pI" -i. 1'1 t.: and vjdc,w medturns, tr•ad~1 shOIAI pc::tt'l:-·Lc:i.p. :·l'l·.:i.on i"tnrl for •rJnls <!tr'c-'! utilized to present a pr•of~:!SS:i.oni:-1.1, pos:i.L.ivc,1 'i.1nagc;! of the Province and all its r•(,1Sour·ct:!S. This :i.s supplr~rn<o!l'll::c;!d with continuing foJ1ow--up such as rnail outs, press and trade missions and audio-visual presc.:lntat.ions. The SE!COndary 1E!VE!l consists of a counsell-Lng s~1rv:ice l:.o pubJ.:ic and private groups who wJsh to E!ngagE! -i.n th~~ir· own pr·owotJonal campaigns.

This mandate is e x e r· c i s e d IAI"L 1: h d u <~ r· <0! g a r· d t: o 1:: h E! private sector and complements their efforLs rather than competing with them. One aspect o f Ul'i. s s c.:! r lJ i. c n J s 1-. h f'! c r· c,1 at ..i. v e and technical support given to the !·: o u r· i. s m t n d 11 s 1:: r·y i. n t: h <:! ·i. r· o n g o J n g marketing thrusts.

In essence, thE:1 Pr·omotion Ser·v:ices f) 'i. tJ ·i, !; 'i. on ·r. ~; r• H s pons "i. b l c.~ for putting the dE!par·tment 1 s rn~~s Sc'lg~:!S, pr·ogr·amrr1ns •!llld oppor·t :urdt:i.c,'s in a format that dynamically impacts on 1:: h H Hid r k 1;! t pl.''' c r,1 . llllt 1:: h o 11 1: t: h a 1:. consistent promotional effort, NBIAJf 011 nell .,,ncl <'lnd Labr·ac:Jor· IAri 11. relegate itself to insignificance :in the compet1Ltve world market arE!na.

Because the division set:s 'i::ht:1 h.i. ghc,~st profc,1ssional. standar·ds for itself, both the department and goV(.:lrnrnc~nt. effHct :ivc->.ly compc~te on the international scene for pot~~nttaJ invc-?.strnc,1nt ·i.n this Province. Given the status quo, ... No . 3 3 Rl719

it. has been dE:~mons'Lrated that govc·~rniii~Hit could not. I:H~t.t.E:~r utilize its present resources. nw d i.V i.S i.OrJ I 5 phyS"i.Ci:-\J. pl.dn [: :'i.S now fuJly equipped and oper·at .. i.onal., and thc,1 pr·c::~sc-?.nt·. st.r:~ff ar·e profE!Ssionals tAiho repre!sent a l~wel of c,1xpc-?.rt::ise i:hat is not YE!t available in the private sector of l: he Province. The general direction of the department's promotional campaign s·inc~1 198.2 has bec~n ·i.n t.hc,1 o:L1 and gas, ocean industries, seafood, trade and .investlfl~~nt, dnd ·tour·is1r1 sectors.

More r·ecentl y, the h:igh-tc.;!chnology 11 Cc-?.nt:r·c,1 of Excellence 11 concept has bE!en added to the~ c:litJ"i.sJonr.11 r·epc-:'!l·.o.i.r·P.. An ex~ensiuP. and comprohensiue public relations and COTIIIfiiiiTiU'li:.JcHI!) fJr'09t'c:·1lllll)(,1 .is ·i.n pJctce and comprises many f~cets IAJh"i.ch compJ.f~IIHHil: c,1dC:h ol·:i'lCH' cHid IAIOrk E:1ffectiVE!ly j n COI'IC(,H''l., and ~:. h(:1rE! c:-11nc,1"' numbPr' of t:hesc ·:! IAJ~d.ch are Jisted for members to review. 0 n C.;! o f 1: i'H.;! s c,1 i s s IH~ s 'i. s t h e p r i n l: n1edia, lit:eraturE:1 and advertorial inse:H·ti.ons pr·ogramrnes.

In that regard, I am proud and pleased to p r· e s (.;! n t f o r y o u t h i. s i:'l f t e r n o o n a sample package of the Department of Dev<.;!l.oprnE!n·l:: and Tour· .ism's promotional and informational support literature.

These publications cover a variety of departmental concerns and interests and ~re distribu~ed, according to their designed nat.IH'(,~ I at t:r·;~~d(:1 s hOIAIS cHid d l: exhibitions, in response to r·equ~~st.s restll.t ·i.ng fr·orn advert~ising, at t.r·C~de m:issions and pr·~~ss tours, 1-:o i:r·dd~1 publications, and genera] public r f ~ 1 r;\ l·.'i. () n s <Hid '.'i.n f () r'lfl<'l t·. -j. C) 1'1 c:d . corrt.C~ct!;. 1..1 7 20 May 10, 1988 Vol XL They include some fifty-seven t n d i tJ ~i. d u ''~ J. pi. e c: c.:! s of i n d u s t. r i d l. literature in a variety of 11 t '" :i.

J. o r· ~~ cl 11 ld. l: s , a n d t. h :i. r t y .... l:: h r' <:' E! pieces of tourism l:i.tE!rat:ure. As y o u w-i 1.1 no ·t e • t. h ~~ s ~~ p tJ b l ·.i. c a t i. o n s represent a tAiidE! spectrum in type of quality and deslgn, depending on thE! function of the individual pi.c.;!CC.;! or· package.

They r·ange ·fr·om high gloss sales tools gE!ared at. 1:. he in l: e r· nat :i o m1 l mar· k e ·1: arona , t h r o.u g h d u a 1- pur p o s E! 11 Ad v E! r tori a 1" p -l co?. c c.;! s . to l O!J.J bud g co?. t. u t .1. l. ·i. t. i~ r· ·i. an productions designed as "lnfor'ITI<'Ii:·i.onH1 11 foll.OIAJ up" pJ. ~~ces to respond to specific requests, o n c c,1 1·: h c,1 '' s Rl. r: ~ s too J. s 11 h a u t1 be o n effective in attracting tourism or i.ndusl :r· -i. i'll p1nosp~~cLs. ''Ut.-i.l:il:y'' productions also include d -L r· c,1 c: t: o r i ,,, !) i'l ~; 1:: h c~ p r· o v .i. n c J a 1 11 Mi~nufi.'l c tu rE:H' s", "Off s ho r·<,' I n d 1 1 s L r· :i. a l 11 '" n d " S o '" f o o d P I" o d 1.1 c t: s " directories, as well as some :i.nfor'l'fli"'l: i.onc:~l pic-~cr::!S on departrnE!I'Ii:al information or· iII c 0 n l: i lJ e pI" 0 9 r· c:UIUIIC:1 s I d ~~ s •i 9 1'1 (,' d mainly for Jocal consumption .

S c.;! tJ o r a 1 of I: h c.;!

J .. i h1 rat. u r· co?. s amp 1 C.;! s , no tab] y the seafood promotional p:i.eces, IAJ~H·c,~ des ·:i.gned and ut.:i.l..i.zed as 11 Advertorials 11 acCE!Ss'ing a cost-effective strategy of advertising and publication combination whereby the entire publicaU .on is inserted as an 11 i.~dvc.;!r·th;~~rnent" .in approprJ.al :. e trade publications to achiE!Ve tAddE! national and international distribution; and a print-over run :i_ S a C C (.;! p [·: (,1 d f: 0 II S lA)(.;! ll. +: h (,~ C 0 f {e Y' S 11 of the provincial publications :i.nv(,~ntor·y I c:·1nd .i.s subsE~qll(~!nt:i. ally utilized as a support literature p ·i.c.;!C:€:1, l'.:hc,1t' (;!bl) satJi.nq dupl..i.catc~! production and printing costs.

IncJudecl C:r"'Lr,1gor·y Sc,1afood" Food - 11 No. 33 in th]s cH' O II F.xpl.<H't1 1\J('!I)Jfounc:IJ.and and 11 Nc,~tAifoundl and s~~a SHldY'i': lrlc~i'\ 1 -· i.n boH1 1:-.i'H:! Rl720

English and French languages. 11 A Tas L:c~ of NBIAJfoundl.and 11 originally produced as a 1 'i. t !':~ r a t: 1.1 r· r,~ p J. ~:! c c->. , IAJa s s 1.1 b s E:~ q u e n t.l y repr·oduced as an adv~~rtorial in a food l:.r·<:~do ptJbl.JcRtJon, wi.l:h overpr·:i nt Y'IHIS, thereby 1n~~aliz:i.ng cons'Jd('!rr.\bl.c;! cosi: Si:ttJ'.i.ng on dn expEHlSiVE:1 11 litE:~ri-.l'Lure 11 reprint, wh·i.l.o ;:·lr:h:i.Hv-i.ng IM·i . dc~ d i . ~;t.r·:ibt.Jt·i . on t.hr·ough advE:1rt.is:i.ng on Cln f~ x 1-: r· E~lflf'! 1 y n f f n c t·. "i tJ r,~ Jrtd r k r~ 1·: :i. n g too 1. . T t Y'll s l:. Mr·. :' )p(~i:ll< (c1 r. l: hR 1: ,., J.

J. 1..u:i.ll avi' . .dJ. of the->. opportunity, and l·.:hc,1 plf~asur·e, to pc;!Y'IIsc,~ l·:h..-i.s r· E~ pre s e n t r.l'l:: j v E:~ s amp 1 e com pone n t of i·.l'l8 D (c1 p d r t HH~ n t of De v ~~ l. o p 1111!:111 1~ an c:l Tourism's promotional campaign, 1.~1h.i.ch has rnax:i.lni?.c->.d l::he abi.li.ty of government to successfully infiltrate and compete in major international markets within a small budget. rc->.g·i.rne. Thts effort represents the major promotional thrust of Ud s na t.ure rna de~ by t:he Government of Newfoundland and Labrador in the international marketplace.· Mr.

Sper:1ker, -i.n clos:i.ng I IAJOul.cl like to say that I really did not want: to hRtH~ to take I:I'Hc1 t:'i.rne of going -.int-o such detail on this, b 1.11: i'. h H F. S -l·. i. ffli'\ (·: 0 S C OHIITI .i. 1·. (·. f~ 1!:1 , IAJi'H:11'l my departmE:Hlt' s e:1stimates IAJer·e b~:d.ng r'f~tJ:i.nJ~Jod, tl·lf'!Y'8 I~J,:·\S, seemingly, a totCil Jack of diAl<:! Y' EHlf'!

S S , n S p f~ Ci. i:l l.l. y by TnC'!Hlb fc'r' !) oppos:i t:.e, in tc,H·ms of the type:~s of l:.h'i.n•:;~s l·:h<::~t l::l·lf~ df~flMT "I·.: urrml: ,~,;:~s doing on a na·U om-11 and :i.nternai-:Londl. persper:tJue, as it related to marketing initiatives and the ;:'lbil.:i.l:y of th:i.~; Pr·otJi.ncf~ to Clttract and Lo be able to compete effectively on international basis. hopefully, a review of wil.l information that c :i r c u 1 at P d w-.i.l.l addr·ess concern. an So, the bE! i":hat. 1..1'721 May 10, 1988 Vol XL SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. KELLAND: Mr·. Spc,~akc->.r. MR.

SPEAKER: ThE! han. thE:1 mc,~mber for· Naskaupi . MR. I<FLL AND; Tl·h~llk you, Ml". Sp!·H:ti<E'!r. r t•Jottld J.·i.!u! l·.o l.:hiHlk !':he 1n i.n.i.s Lor· for providing an early copy of Lhe ~; 1-.i.~ · I ~ f~lllfHl 1:, H nd T. 1·.: lri. n k ·i. t·. .t. s seconded that other ministers f o J.l oi~J t h R 1·:. p r· o c '~ d u r· E:! . By providing a statement a cons :i. d f:! r r.\ b J. c;! t · i.lflf~ or· d F c:·\ "i r· t :i me before we get to the House, it allows us to have a chance to proper) y pE!ruse it and mclke sorrtE! meaningful comments on its conte!nt.

That would apply E:!XCE!pt 'in t:he~ case;! of unc-?.xpc,1cl:·.e~d issuc~s that arise at sometime, or emergency 'issues, in which there is no tirne! to providE! an advanCE! copy. So I thank the minister and commend him for that. T would also li. k~:! to cornrn~~nd thE! minister and his Promotion SHrtJ"i.ces D.i.tJ:i.s"i.on for" thr,1 H-Ffor·t.s they are! making in the pr·ornoti.on of ott r· P r· o v :i. n c lo! 'i. n l: h f~ g lo1 n ~'! r· a 1. fields of industry and tourism. 0 n c~ , "i. n pH r· l:. .i c 1.11 c:~ r· , :r: h a v o a sp€:1Cific pc,n·sonal i ntE!rE!St in.

Th1·~ l.·i. ~;l: oF pirbl. · "i.cdt-.:i.on~; 'i.s pr'E!tl::y impressive and, as the minister :i.nd"i.cc:·ll~ed, d pdcl<dgC! 'i.s going t.o be pr·ovided to E:1ach ITIE!Hiber· of thE! Housr,~. And l:o p11l: t:.he l::hi.ng in per·specti.ve, IAJhat hE! said on the:~ t.:·\i.J. E:!l'ld of hts st.HI::~:!HIE:!nt., t::hJ.s was r'E!qUE! s ted by the E s U .ma tE!S Co 111111 i t t r,1 . I n f H c 1:. , 1:: he rn ~~ rn b (;! r· f o r Fortune Hermitage and the R~~sour•cc,1 Esti.tnab,1S Commit.t:e£~ requested that those publications bE~ made avc:d.lablc-?., cHld I IAJOUl.cl not want it to appear otherwise. I No. 3 3 Rl721

commend the Minister for r•c,1spond.i.ng l:o Hlr:lt rc-?.qllf:!S-1-.. And to also put into perspective ;uwi':hE!r of l·ds C:OinlrH~nh>, l'.hr~ pur·pose of an fst.imates Comrnii.bH:~ -i.s ob1;.iousl.y l:o r'E:1qU~~!;I·:. information th~t we do not have. The Mini st.E:1r says l.IJe have a lack of aiAJareness of 1.~1hat 1.s happen:i .ng in the area of pr·omotion of industry and tourism, simply because the Minister has not or previously provided the information. Now he has, and I i':hank hlm for it.

As a member For Labrador, one of the four Labrador sPats, T ofl::c~n fe::H~l. 1-.hat the pr·omoti onaJ effort in our Province ·i s g e cH' e d 1110 r· c,1 t OIAiiH' d s H1 e Is l..:u1 d part of the Province. I am sur·e rny co1leagues '.in the Housc,1, no l'fli:ltt.r,~r· 1~1h:i.ch pdr•i·.y, shcu·e tl'li·~t f~>.eJoing from Lim~>. to 1.: "i.Jno. l dl) no+: 1~1r:~nt Lo br,~ p i:H' t j c u 1 i'H' J. y p a r· a n o '.i d a b o u t i t: , b 11 t: 1·: hE! r ~~ h a:; b f:! P n f~ 1; ·i. den c c~ , o 1; r;! r· th~~ y~>.r~rs, that IAJould indicate l: hrit t t:hc~ -i. s l..:Hld gHts 1-.he 111r.tj or· concentration of effort.

I b e J. .i. c,~ v ~>. 1:: h E~ M 'i. n i. s 1-. t-?. r· .i s f 1.1 ll. y aiAJar·e of that particular s i.l~uc:~ I:: "ion, and I k norAl he IAIOI.Il.d I:H>. quick to rise in his place and say that he is aware and will. take steps, and is taking steps, to corr·c->.ct :i.t. I IAiould 1. ikH t:o know, because he has come under a fair bit of cr·.i. t:.tci~;rn on l.:he::1 <~mount of rnonE:1Y he spent in his traVE!l and things of '!:hat nai:ur·c;!, .in pr·omot"i.ons oF one kind or another, if he has jn pl.acc,1 a rnon:i.tor·i.ng Hrc,1chr.udsrn? J wouJd be interestHd to know, at sornf~ fLrl:ur·f~ l:irn~~. Mr.

M:inishH', .i.n a ens cuss i.on thctt IAIB could have I i.f you hi.·liH1 so1nr,1 !<i.nd of .:~ mordt.or·ing rn~H:hardsrn '.i.n pJ.ace that !AJoul.d j 11dgf~ U1e (;! fff~ c; t:i.v f~ nos s of I. 17 22 Mt-.1y 10, 1988 Vol XL the dollars that are bedng spent, r:.lnd <u·c~ 1~10 getU.ng l".hf:! full value of the dolJar in the area of p r· o rn o t: :i. o n .

T h c;! r· f~ r:·l r· c,1 I support c~~r·i:.ain ~; · l:r·c:-ltc-:!gJ.es Lhdt in t.~rhat the ministE!r is 1f Lhe rnlntster is me for a minute, ti11 d c~ s c r· i b :i. n g . hanging t.~li.th I Li. n :i. s h my not mind. r<-?.sponse, .if you do PREMIER PECKFORD: He could not hang IAJ:il::h you, because I could not hang with him. MR. KELLAND: You are going to hang wiLh the cucumbers, PrerniE!r. Anyway, that is an aside.

I IArould l."i.!<c,1 l::hf~ rn .i.nistc;!r' L:o pi:·\Y a l..i.ttlE! attention for at.~orhjlE!, as I did to h.i.s sl:r:ll:f~Hif:!nl-.. :r suppor·t., For example, the st:r·atE!9Y of using the ac:lvr:!r'l:ot·:i.dl. I bf~l.:i.f~IJf~ l·:hi'll .: :i.s an advantagE:1. I had somE! expt,H':i.E!I'lCE! ·i.n HH~ IIII·HI'i.r:~, i.Hld r know t·:h(;! effectiveness of it. MR. SPfAKfR: Ordc-:1r, pl.~~asc->.! The han. the mernber 1 s t: '.i ITlE! f:!l.r.lpsed. MR. KELLAND: By 1eave, just to clue up? SOME HON. MEMBERS: No. SOME HON. MEMBERS : By J.eaVE!. MR. KELLAND: Dar·n i.t! T et.Hl pr·i.'l"i.~;~:! the,, rnan no fur·ther.

I support the general effort of I~Jhi:ll: i: hc,, rn"i.n-i.sl·.t:!r' and h .i.s department is doing, and I w'.ill No. 3 3 R1722

SOME HON. MEMBERS : No leave. No leave . MR. SPEAKER: Order, plE!ase! Order, please! MR. KELLAND: con ·U nue to criticiZE! if cr·i.ti.cJ.srn :is wh~H·c~! pr·a:i se YOII. Mr~. ~->PU:'!KF.I~ : Or·der·, p1ea!;E:1! MR. ~>PFAI<F.R: n C.;! c c,, s s a r· y , ,;, n d is deserv(~d. pr·;:;1i. s r,1 Thank J lAJO 1.1 J d ~ S k 1-:. h f~ h 0 1'1 . I call h :i rn to or· de r , S i. 1-. d OIAJI'l . tnnrnbr;!r', I'Jhr~n j f he lAJOUld M~. Kf.I.LAND: My apologies, Mr . Speaker . MR. SPF.:AKER: Thr::~ hon. the m~1rnber for St. John 1 s East.. MR . LONG: Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

I just have one thing to say about the Minister's lengthy statement, that I regret that .there is no r rO! f C;! r e n c e to 1 ~ he tAJO r· k of h .i. s department in promoting the Pr·ovinc:cO!'s cul.t.tu·aJ. COIIIIrtt.Jrli.l:y in artistic activity. M R . B () R f~ E TT : Tha.t i s not thE:1 r·o le of my cl f~ pcJ\ r·1-.1nr.:~ n t . MR. lONG : ThHl : i. <; not l:ho r·ol . r~ of h .l s dE:1par·trnrnd:, the rn:i rd s t E:H' says. Mr·.

Spc,1akrH', J I~Joul.d submit 1:-.h;:d: there j s no one :in I: he govE~rnrnent tak t ng proper responsi.bil.it.y for t:.he prornot:ion of Lhe Prov:i.nce's un .lq1H,1 hHr'i tagH, cuJ. t.ur'(! and artisUc activity. In fact, alJ. lAJe sec,1 i. s thai·. we gE!'I:. l:.o p1.1t. sotrH,1 fiddlers, some young people on L17/.3 May 10, 1988 Vo1 XL post:c.;!rs, r~nd l::hat is aboul: all l)J(,1 do for the struggling arU.sts of thi.s Prov "lnce. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Thr.1t i. s not I·.: rue, now. That. is not true. MR. SPEAKER: Or·dE:1r, please! MR.

LONG : I ~~~o 11l. d s a y , M r· . 8 p ~ = ! ;~' I< ~ ' ! r· , l:: h a 1:: Uri s rrr.i. n :i s t e r a n d o t h E! r rrr:i n j s t E!l~ s l·~t:~ u o "' 1. o n g '~k\ y I ~ o g o t: o adequateJ.y and pr·opE!r·J.y pr·ornot. E! 'l: h ~~ c 1.1 11·.11 r· 1,1 - AI\J HOI\J. MEMBER : Do you promote (Jnaud:ibJ.e)? Mr~. SPEAKER: Or·der·, pleasc,1! MR. LONG : - a n d i: o u n d e r· s t. r.~ n d l: h c,- v a 1 u e i n terrns of the economic dE!VelopmE!nl of th i.s Pr·ovinc~~ and the,- pr·ornot:ion of our culturaJ. industry.

OHwr r. han l::ha t., lAJe · l ~ ha n k t:. hc,1 rn"i. nt s t E! r for the materials and we J.ook fortAJard to hav i.ng a closc,1 look r.~t everything that he has put our way. MR. SPEAKER: A 1:. l·: h:i. s s r.e:,ge, T would 1. ·i.i< ~'! l··.o welcome to the gallery Henry Webb, ,~, r: o u n c:i. J. 1. o r f r· o 111 1\J ;:·Li. n . SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hf~dr, hf:!C.·lr'! Mr~. SPFAKFR : T l~J ()I I-, d '" l. !; () l . J. k 0 t-. () lAJ(;! l c () lTI (;! twenty-five Grade 11 students, IM "i. 1.: h 1": h c~ i r· 1 ... f~ ,,, c h n r· F r· f:! d F r· a rn p , frorn SL Michael's all grade school., Ar·nold 1 s Cov~1 .

SOME HON . MEMBERS: HE!ar, hE!ar! No. 33 R1723

Oral Questions MR . K. AYI .. WAIW : Mr·. SpE!c.tkel". MR. SPEAKFR: -The hon. mE:~mber for Sl:E!ph~HltJil.J.c~. MfL K. AYLW()RD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . I ht:;~.d a quest:i.on For· +:I·H~ Minist:<·H' of Career Development (Mr. Mal.: t.hetus), but he-:' :i.s not. here,~ today so I lo~.Jould like it to go to the Premier. I would like for him to indicate to the House IA.Jhat is thE! si.t.uati.on concerni.ng UH-:'! communi ty colleges in the Province and l::he recent repor·ts of J...~yoffs that are either happening or gojng ~o happen in the next few days?

WouJ d hE! :indicate hot~.J many p~~ople r:·lY'f:! gel·: I:: i.ng l.i;l'i.d off and 'i.f th~~r·c,, c.tr·e any opL:l.ons offer·ed to them :in the way of retraining? MR. SPF::AKFR: The hon . HI(,~ Pr·end c-:'!r. PRfMIFR PFCKFORD: f. IAJi.l.l. hc'lVC'! 1".0 t.c:d<c,~ that qiH~S l: ion c.ts noL:ice, Mr·. Speaker, and get the materi~l and the informatlon for the hon. member For tomorrow. MR. K. AYLWARD : A \;upplf~lrH-:'!n ·l:rH'Y, Mr. Spt~i3.k(;~r. MR. SPEAKEf~: A supp1ementary, the hon. the member for Stephenville. MR. K. AYLWARD: Mr.

Speaker, this side has been in contact lAd. t.h ;:~ nurnb<-H' of cornrnuni. t.y colleges in the Province and we f.tr'<-:'! I:Hdng t:ol d I: hat t.her·(;~ rH't:~ layoffs occurring. There was a r·~~por•i:. yc.~s l:.E!Y'dt:·lY !·:hat l.r:1yoFFs ar·c-~ occurl~ing. We arE! also bc,dng toJ.d 1.. J. '/ ;?,IJ. Mc:1y 1.0, l9HH lJol XI . that - MR. SPF.AKER: Or•dt:H', pJ.~~r:~sf~! MR. K. AYLWARD: P r· t~ 11ft~'! r· hE:1 j s -i. n d :i. c "' t: f'! L o 1':. h c;! f.liAJa Y'E! t:. hat: t.: hE! Would th:~ I-lOUSE! if c r.1pi. tc'll. allocated budge:! Ls to I~ h a 1-.

I).Jf! r~ E! thE! communi t:y col.lE:'9<-:'!s ar~f~ now the operational t he y. c a n hang o n staff? MR. SPEAKER: b t:~ "l n g p 1.1 s h <-:'! d i. n l:. o account so that l':o SOIII(;! of -l::hE'!.ir The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: I do not know whether that is true or not, Mr. Speaker. As I rJnder·stand :i.t, t:he cap:i.Lal rnonl:!Y is being USE!d to upgrade various f,'JC:i.l.il".oi.f~S "i.n the-:' COI'rllriUI'lity college system around the P , .. o tJ :i. n c c;! . S c~ c o n d 1. y , o b tJ .i. o u s 1 y there are going to be .::1dj 11s Lmonl~!;. ~-.Jc~ i:\r<-:'! C:'l~wu t.

Hc-:'!r Majesty's business in trying to lfkl k 0 '1:1'11:~ s C:1 c () l'fllrii.IJ'l'i . L y c () l.l. ~=! g (o~ !) i:'l n d other institutes and pr·ov:l.ncial :i. n s I: i. l·.rt l'. :i. o n s c o rn p c,~ t · i. t. :i. tJ r:~ . k~ ~~ h d v r::! to br·ing in net~J progl~arnmE!S, and, HllH'C;!forc-:1, obtJ:i.ou!;l ,y l::hc;!r'E! rni·:~y be some neE!d to h:i rE! some nE!IAJ peop1E!

IAJho h;:·lvr:~ · l:.hE:~ Cfl.li:'lli.Fi.c,'ll·· . ..i.ons l·.:o do the neiAJ courSE!S as opposE!d Lo cont:i.ntr ·i.ng on w.l.Lh i::he old and hav:i ng students coming out of our schools not having l::he r·'iqht courses for the jobs that a~e C::lln:d.l a b l c,1 . So we a r· e ·in bH' c-:1 s h:! d in doi.ng that, but, as the same t.:i.me, 'i.F in fact.: i::h<"J r<'! ar·e somE! adjustrnE!nts and some layoffs, in b Co1 'i. n g fa i r· t. o 1:: h c;! .i. n s t r· u c t o r· s a n d teachers in those institut:ions. To gc-:'!t. :i.nt:.o t: hc~ spt~c:if"i.cs, Mr. Speaker, I cannot say bE! CaUSE!

I do not have the data at my f:i.ngertips. But, as I J.ndicated tn my ansr~Jf~r· l:o I·: hr.~ hon. rnc,~mbE!r' • s origjnal qUE!Stion, I IAdJ.J. gE!t thE! ~.Jo. 31 Rl'72tJ.

infor·matjon for the hon. member. MR. K. AYLWARD: A f i.nal. supplernen t:cH'Y, Mr· . Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hen. the member for Stephenville. MR. K. AYLWARD : Would ·t:hc-?. Pr'(Hfli.(H' t:ell. t.h.i.s House,~ if the government committed i.l::se:~l.f 1 "ln +:he 1.<:-lsl-.: yE~i.·\r IAJhc,~n i.l:: brought in the new system, to, F i r· s 1:: of' f I o f f c~ r· o p !: :i. o n s t: o 1:: h c.,, :instr·uC'l:.or·s, :-if thE!Y IAJC,H'E:~ going to br:! or· r:H·r-~ po'i'.r-~ n l' . .i<'l l.

J. y br;d ng ld.i.d off, if thE~se opt:i.ons IAJBI"B go:lng 'i':o br-~ offc,~r·c,~c:l "i.n l·.hc,~ for·rn oF r·etr·c.drr:ing, and, also, :if new HIOn "i. os IAH,~r·c.~ go:i.ng l:o be dl.loc:di:c,~d to the co] J t~gc"!s so that they couJ d p11t i.n neiAJ 'i.nfr·r:·\sl·:r·uctlll"r~ dnd so 01'1 to ci(~f..\] IAJi th the nE!IAI pr·ogr·arnHIE'!S? D·i.d {-.hts gol)t-:~r·nrn(~nt: comrrrl t: l:o that and ar·e they going to kc,~ep i:.hc:-1t cornm.i.t:Jn~~n-t.? MR. SPEAKER : The hon . the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, any statements that we have made Rlong the lines that the hon. member has said, we stand by.

MR. 1(. AYU~ARD: Good to hear· it . We ulill find out t orno r· r· ou.1 . MR. F.FFORD : Ml". SpC"li~k(H' . MR. SPF.()KER : The'! hon. thE:~ for Port c;r·d

t) e . MR. FFFORD: ThC~nk you, Mr. Speaker . Mr· . i.n ~)p(H~kc"!r ~ putl::ing rny i.n fl s hor· l·. F>r'('!c:Hnbl.E:~ que:1stton is to the 1.17/.1) May 10~ 19B8 Vol. XL Minister of Health (Dr. Collins), I w<-::tnt l~o point out to the mtnister that he and his party have-?. <:<~ccusc,~d me:'! of bc;!·:i.ng . an alarmist many ttrnes whE!I1 it comes 1:. o 't: he c 1 o sur· E:1 of h o s p"i. t. a 1 bE:! d s and the serious irnplicaU.on it is go·:Lng to ha1.Jc,1. I want to ask the minister q u (~ s t: 'i. o n s ·i n l. i. g h 1·:. o f I·~ h c;! 1 (~ t. t c;! r· that hE! received from a Mr·s. Rows~ll. from St.

Lawrence, Nc~wfoundland. On April. 6 shE! held 1:;:~ k n n h c,n· rno I·.Jw r l': o l::l·w h o s p .i. 1:: a 1 and could not get her admitted . On Apr i l 7 she had taken her mother· to the hospital and could no l'. ge I ~ h::!r' ddln:i. 1·: l:Hd. " f'h(~n. Mr·. Speaker, I think when you hear 1·. h ·j. ~ y 0 II I~J'i. l. J. S Cc' C·~ h OI~J !) E;! Y' i 0 1.1 S -j, [: is. The last paragraph on the f:i. r·~;l'. pdge si'.al· :r,~s: 1 II': -i.~; IAJ:-i.l:.h great regret that I relate the f'oJl.oiAJ i.ng .... 1 MR. SIMMS: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: Or·der·, please!

A point of order, thE! hon . the Presirlent of the Council. MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speake!r, I do not think it is pc,H·m·i.ss.ibl.r:! t.o quol~.(~ fr·o1n l.c'!l::l':.EH'S when addressing questions during q 1 u~ s t .i o n P r-?. r· :.i o d . T ~H~ h o n . rn c,~ HI b c;! r· should be IAJelJ. at~Jar·e of that. l bel'i.eue he hcts rrobctbly been IAJar·ned a thousand times. T f Y 0 I I t' li 0 n 0 I I r• I'HH~ d S d s :i. n c e t ~H>. h o n . ITH~ rn b e r· s do no 1: sHE~ m 1: o 1·: h .i. n k fact ·- MR . f.FFORD : Tt. 'i.s <:\fact: . MR. SIMMS: No . 3 3 r'(:1fE!Y'c,1ncc,~, OVE!r thE!Y'C;! t.h<·l+:. ·.t~; a RJ.'72S

It is a fact, the han. member ~1grt~E:~S. Well, tn t.hr:1t-. CdSO (·:he,, t1on. member is out of order. MR. Tllll<: To l:hr:1 1: po ·i.nl : of o r·d C'! r, Mr· . Speakc,!r'. MR . 3PE(lKFR : To thCi t point : of or·der, the hon . l::hc->. lfiOrrlbf:H' ror Fogo. MR. TUl.K : The who] t~ point. is the hon. g~~ntJ.c,~ll'li:HI 1.Aii:1S not r·ecHLi.ng, ht:~ IAliilS paraphrasing, he was just using the letter as a point of reference. MR. SPEAKER : To that point: of order, I do not think l:her·c ;! is a point of ordE!r. But I was _ just going to draw thE! hon. mc;!rnbc;!r''s att.enl:.if)n that h·i.s

preamble IAJas getting too long. So T ask hirn to please pose h i s question. The,~ hon. Uw rnc->.rnbt<:H' for Por· 1:. d c->. Grave. MR. F.FFORD: I agr·ee, Mr. Speaker, I IAlf.lS quol:"i.ng dnd pr·obe1bl.y r·oad:i.ng r:1 J.j ttle pc\ragraph, but if Li'H->. hon. 1 ... h t~ P r· t~ s 'i. d t~ n t·: oF l'. h c,~ Co 1.1 n c: J. 1. hi:\ cl listened to the seriousness of the ITJ<:'Ii': l·:c~ r· MR. SIMMS: Ask the question! MR. F.FFORD : I t>Jo u l. r.! as k LI-H->. 1ni. n J s t ("! r· , i. n ~l'i g h t of the fact that Carmelita Rowsell SOME HON. MEMBERS: Do not use the woman's name! MR.

EFFORD : - pointed out Spc->.aker, that on the,~ third 1.1 7?. () in her letter, Mr. hc-:!r' rno Lhc·H' had di.ed trip to the Health Vol XI.. Sd.ences Hospital, and I IAJill i·.r:-lbl~~ t:h:i.s lc,~tl:c~r· !".he hon. l::hc.;! Minister of HeaJlh also has a copy of t:h·i_s Tr,~ti-.HI" .. bf,~Cdi.ISt->. · ~;hf!! could not: gain adm'i tt.ance to the:~ HE! a] t:h 3 c . i. 0 l'l c (,' !) H

C) s p i. (·: r:~ 1. b f'! c f.) I I s ('! 0 F b E! d closures ·- MR. SPE(lKER : Order, pJ E!ase! Order·, pJ (,~ase! MR. SIMMS : Wh<'ll:- j_ s l::h~1 q u C.;! s t.J on? MR. SPEAKF.:R: Order, please! MR. EFFORD : That is the question! W h a 1: i s 1:. h c->. m ·i. n :L s 1: e r· g o 'i. n g t. o d o now that the seriousness of the s:itui:~t.ion ha!; bt:!c,~n br·oughl:: oul:: by some member of the public? Becaust:1 of l : h~~ SfH'':i.ousrH~ss of !::he situation, what is thE! Minjster oF li~~<:1l. th go :i.ng t:o do? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Or·d (;! r, plr,~':' s r,~ ! Order, please! MR.

EFFORD : Yor:-1r~; ago pr.~oplf~ n~'!Vf:1Y' got. t:o l:'.hf!! hospital. Ml". Speaker, I ask the M:'i. nJstEH' of Health, ln l i ght of t:he letter that hE! received and I rE!CEd VE!d a copy o·f , 1Mhi'11: "is 1-'.hf'! rn·in·isf·er going to do about the situation of bt:~d c:losUI"Cc1S i.n t:he hosp :i.t:als before we have more cases happen exactly as quoted ln t.hJs letter? MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the->. Mi.rl"i.sl:.(H' of Hc,~ alt. h . DR. COI.. LINS : Mr. Speaker, what we do IAd.th all 1\Jo. 33 R1'726

these r·epr·c-?. s ent.a tj on s to us is IAJe h r.t v c~~ UH~ HI t n t; e s t: J. g a t e d . My r·outj ne is that I send it on to thE:~ Deputy Mi.ni.sl:: er· i.ulm<-?.d.i.r.th 1ly to~d th a r•e,quest:. to check with the institution for detr.tils on th i s matter·, and to get back to me as quickly as possible. If it is going to take somE!

U.rrH:1 1: o g e t t: h co?. d c-?. t r.l :i. l. s , I u s u i::t l. l. y a s I< for an interim report so that I can r·eply "i.n somf~ pr·el:.i.lrrinr'.lry fashj on to the person lAid U.ng in the f·i.r·sL :i . nstr.\ncE:~. 81.11.: :Ln dl.J. c~ses these partjcular jnstances ar·~~ invc~~slig<:tt~:!d c;ornpl.c,~l'.:f~l.y r:lnd i'\ r·eport is s~Hlt to the pE,rson writing tho lot~er. I\! ow, s Olflf~ l": ·i. rnc,1 s i. 1.: appropriatA for me to report ctnd then adrn:Lnj s'lrcd:or· of th<.~ ·1,:; lfiOI''O send a bd.ef hr'll)(;!

Ulf~ :i.nst.j t.utton s e n d 1·: h ~WI I'll o r· r~ d r~ h'\ i.l. s , o f r: o 1.1 r· s o , on that. That is quite often done. MR . EFFORD: A st . 1ppl.em~~nt.ary, Mr . Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A suppJernentary . MR. EFFORD: Mr. Speaker, I do not mind saying in this House that that 1s a disgusting disgrace of an answer in light of the fr'.lct that. somebody's mother- SOME HON. MEMBERS: Qucc1S tion! MR. SPEAKER: Order·, p]c~1CISC-?.! MR. [FFORD: I I~J-i.11 Y'f~Pf~r:·\1: iL r:\<]d 'i,n l.o ·l·.hn nr.irdste1": S'.inc~~ t.hey just closE!d i.-\1'1 0 1-. h ~~ t' 1·: lAIC'' 1'1 l: y b <,HI S '1: hi.

S lAIC"! r~ !< •:>I 1·: t. h ~'' H ~~ i'i J t: h S c::l ~HI c E:~ s C E:Hl t r e , IAI':i J 1 1: hE! M"i. n J. s 1·. or· s 1-. o p 1-. h r~ c 1 o s 11 r· r~ of these b~~ds b<.~for·E~ we have any mor·c;, L1'727 May lO, 19 !l8 Uol X I. serious situations? He does not need Lo h~ue this investigated. The situation is clearly stated in this letter . It i s very clear what is taking place. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the M:i.rdster· of H<"'all :. h . DR . COLLINS: Mr·. Spc-?.akc.;,r·, I clo not thi.nk 'i.t. "i. s very clear what has taken place in 1:. h :i. s p a r· t :i. c 1.1 l. a r· c a s 1.;, . B ~~ c a u s f'! :i.

F you take the case as presented, the~ 1·1(~1.·\l.l::h Sci.E!I'lCe Cornplc c1X and l::h<-?. administration up there were t: o 1-. i:tll. y n r"' g J. 'i. g c,, n l: i. n 1·. h t'' ·.'i. r· d 1 t t. i I"' s , and I have great hesitation i n be 1.-.i. 1.;, tri. n g U1 (:\ 1·. . T h r:~ 1··. 'i. s IAI h y I look j nto these matt.ers, and qu:itc "' o f 1·: e n r::t p ;:~ r· I: i. c 1 rl. d r· p C"! r· s o n 1 n i:·\ y 'J ·i. E! lA I circumstances one way, but when y o 1.1 g 0 I ~ .:d. J. ·1·: h ~ ~ d wl:i:·\ .i. J. s UH~ I" C'! a r· C'! other

interpretations put on 'i:.hf~ln. Thr:-1i: is nnl: to ~><:~y Lhal·. l::hc'' original person is doing cmyt.hJ.ng rnr:·\ 1 i r: :i. o 1.1 s , or IAJ h.:·\ 1·: ~~ v c;! r· , :i. L ·i. s j 11 s '1:. tht:dr view of it. But onE! has to t.i.-lk(~ Rll. 1nal·.: l::c-?.r's ·into consideration, and that is Luhat wo do. I know that the hon. member J.s using t:h :i.s part.icuJ.ar· inci.dent as a full case for arguing underfunding of the hospital system. But onE! cannot do that. I th ·'i.nk t.hC"!Y'l'' ar·(~ so1nel :.h:ing 1-i.kf:! 98,000 admissions to our hospital syst-:~='rn .i.n I·:I-IE:1 r·un of cl y~~ <H'.

With that number of admissions you ar·E! b011nd l·.o go 1-. any Vdr.i.rc1-l::y of incidents happenjng. Some of HH~Ifl, fHH'hr:\p~;, 111.i.ght Cc'Vl'!l'l be;! preventable jn Lhe best of al] IAJorlc:ls, b11L Cjll.i.l:e ofl·:~''n i':h(~Y ar·e due to circumstances over which no one h;:~s dny con ·l·.r·ol.. ~iornc~'t: "i. m~: 's .Lt: j s due to t.hE! fi'~mily Ol" thee! pr'\ t -j_ C·Hll·: !) 1: hc:!lfiS e J.tH1 S ; <; 01'(1(,1 t :'i.lll(! ~; i 1: is due to the transporl::ation sys ·l·. r:!ul; somr;d : i1rrH~; .. i l". "i. ~; due l··. o c:i.rcumstances :i.n thE! Outpat.:iE,nts. No. 33 R:l.?/.7

There are any number of p o s s i. b i 1. i t i. e s w h <-:! r· e y o u c ~ n p o "i. n t to a particular case having an unusur.~l. fr.?. al-. ur~~ ;:~boul: it. Thn po t nt I am trying to make is that 1)011 can no 1.: c:fi:lHII'l cH' C <!\1'11'10 1: chcH•act.ccH'i2e Cl IAJhole system on one C i:l S (;! , r:l l'l cJ p t:l Y' 1: -j_ C I.IJ. i:l r• J. 'J I~J h (~ n 'J!) II d 0 not l<not.u a] 1 tht1 facts about that MR. EFFOfW : A finaJ supplementary, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKFR: n fin~l supplementary. MR. EFFORO: Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

I ask the Minister of Health if he is l: ell.lng this Hou s e of Ass<-?.rnbl.y that the administrators, the doct.or·s, 1-:hc-?. nursc;!s and all i:he staff in hospitals are not telling the l:r·ul-·.h whr-?.n l::hC'l'J rnal<c"' statements about difficulties and not bc-?.ing able l:.o adrni.t. pr~l':.i.ents to the hospitals because of the bed closures?

As we haue IAd.tnessed here in t:h'.is Jetter, as we witnessed las t Friday whrnn I told him about a gent1eman who had 1-.o ~~~r:lil-. l: hr·c'!f~ d~ys i:o gwl : .:-1 br-:1d for· an operr.1ti ons, and as tAJ(c1 have SC· ~(c~l'l C:l.OSI.Ir'c·~S of bc~ds ·i.n r::tlJ. hosp::ita.Js, iH'E~ you L(~ll'.ing us that thosr~ pHopl.c~ .in l:ho s 1:1 r·Hsponsiblf ?. posiUons ;u·e no ·t. telJing the l:r·ul :: h? MR. SPF.:AKF.:f~ : Th e hon , the M:l rd stc:1r of He el] t:h . DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, if a hospital administr·r.d ·.or·, a nur·se or· a doc tor· tell me they are having great d iff i c u 1 t y I be 1 i. v e them .

T k n OIAJ there are great difficulties in running a he i:l J. 1:. h s y s t. (-:llll . E v tH' y health system in the world is a d :i ffi c u 1. t Ur'i. ng l:.o r'tHl. WE:1 would 1..1728 May 1.0, 1988 Vol XL not have highly profession~l.s, uery expensive professionals, running these s y s 1-. t~ rn s -i. f 1--. h t~ y IAJC:~ I" o r· u n j u ~; t 1. ·i k e a very simple opera t:'.i.on. ThE! y iH' E!

C) CH' y C: 0 Ill pJ. C:~ X , C: 0 HIp J J C r'l h :! d ~ ; y S 'i:(: ! IllS and, sure, ther·e ar'E! dJffi.cuJt i E! S , i: h c,~ r' r,1 "' I" o .:·l l.l s o I" i". s o F difficulties, btt this goVE!rnrnt:!nL h n l. p :; o 11 '\: i: h o s '.1 s 1··. f'! m t~ no r• rno u s l. y with the funds that IAJe apply . I hd ppO l'l 1-.0 hr:1 V f ~ S OJ'IIBIAJh ('!r'O 1:: h ('! mon::l·es IAJe put. into gr-ants Lo boar·cl opt1r·al:od hosp ~ i.Lr:·ll.s just For' t:heil" operations. This is not for l: r· ''' n s f c,1 r' s o 1 t t: o F 1:. h t~ P r· o v ·i n c t ~ , this is not for capital purpo s e a n cl c::t l.

J. 1·:. h a t s o r· t o f L h :i. n g . WE! gave to the board operated h o s p i t a l. s f o r· o p Cc1 r· a t. i. o n a J. p u r p o s c~ s in 1984-85 just less than $260 rni.1lton. In th ~ i . s cur·r' E!nt yt~iH' we are budgeting nearly $335 million. That i.s an extra $75 million j n that four YE!ar pE!riocl. Th'i.s govc-?.r·nrnc;!nt. :i.s put.-1:. -i.ng enormous amounts of money into l~hc:'! J r· hospitaJ. syst:t:!rn . I arn sur·e the hospital system would li.kE• to hr:1ve tnor·t~ - who woul.d nol::? ··-·but we are doing extremely well in t:f:H'IIIS of our· r'lbi.l. 'i.

Ly l·: o pay, i.Hld the hospitals I think ar·e thc·:!lll~>c:1llJO!; g·ilJ 'i. ng r'ln "i. ncr·(~asJnq J c-?.vel and an j ncreasi.ng qua] i ty of h Cc1 r'lll· . h C i:l r' f~ , Mf~. KE I.. I. Al\JD : Mr·. KeJ.Jand . MR. SPFAKER: Th~~ hon. l·:l'w Jn(~IIII:HH' For· N1:1s l<aup i. . MR. KELLAND : ·rhanl< you, Mr. Speaker. I h~ve a question also for the Minister of Health. Everybody recogn i zes rnin"i.ster that the Melville Hospital in Happy Vall.(,11) .. Goos£:1 Bmy .i.s IAJC,1ll b£;!yond its expected life span. Other q u e s t i on s h a v c-?. bet~ n r· a .i. s c;! d o n "i. t . No. 3 3 R1728

r t rf~qu:ll"f~s ur·g~Hli-. rf~pl;H:~~nlf~n 1·: :i.n t.h~1 rrr:inds of most pc,1ople up ther·r:1. I I~Jond(~r· WOIIl.d I·H~ givf:! us some quick comment on what your cur·r·c,1nl:". ~~ffor·ts t:tr'(:1 l:.o ht."'IV(;! ~.:hi.·11·: come about, a r'E!pl.acE!ITJent hospttal for· Mc,1l.v·i.l.l.c,1? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health . DR. COLLINS: Mr. Spc,1al<er·, I vi.s 'i.l:.c;!d Uw MelvjlJ.e Hospital a short whil.e a g o a n d h ad d ""i. s c u s s ·t o n s IJ.ri. 1:: h t h (~ staff and with other individuals up HHH'C,1, .i.ncludolng somf~ of HlP rrdl:Ltar·y personnel.

I have also h <:·1 d d i. s c 11 s s "'i. o n s 1.o~ri. 1··. h· s r:1 n i. or· p f~ o p 1. c~ j n the Gr·errfe:1J] Hc:!a] th Service. We r·c;!cognitf~ 1-.ht:tl: 1:.1-w hosp"i.l .. :~l. i.n Ha.ppy Vr.All(~y-Goost:1 Ray is getttng rlC:!i:'lr" i":hc,1 f'!l"ld of ··i.l:s I,/SI:1flil. J. ·i.f"t:1. I t '"'' c~ ~' d e s :i. g n e d f o In a p u r p o s e,1 () 1: h ('! r· 1:-. h r:'l /'l ;:~ c i. l) :i. 1. ·i. i.-1 n h 0 s 'p i 1·: i.'\ 1. a n d 1.1.1<,1 ar·e cognizfln'L of the:1 Jncr·eas:i.ng clernands on l::hf~ hospfi-:.<'11 11p l:.hc'!r'C::!, as is t.he Grr?nfell. Sys .tern. NotJ.J thc,1 Gr(Hif(=!l.l.

System tht~mSE!] ves h <:·1 v <:1 rno u n hH:I i::l s I: w:l y o f 1.~1 h EI 1".: services, what readjustments, and s o o n , s h o ul. d b ~1 g i. v e n , b o t h o n the Northern part of the Island and the Labrador part of their r·esponsib:L:Jity. We ourselves are studying thLs si.t.uat.ion in detail. and we are having discussions with o the r e n t"i. Ll e s t h a t a r r.;! u s ""i. n g thE! Happy Vall.ey--GOOSE! Bay area.

At this poi.nt 'i.n t.iHH:!, I cannot. g'"i.Ve any detail outline of our plan for t.hat ar(~a. r Ci:tn a!;sur·e l:.h(~ hon. member that we are conscious of the needs and the increasing demands IJP th~1r·e, and lAJ<o1 ar'E! in a pl.iHlning mode->.. MR. KI~LI..AND : Mr. Spc'!akel" . Mr~ . SPE()I<FR : A s u p p 1 ~1 rn (~ rd .. a r· y , the hon. the 1..17?.9 Md 1J 1. 0, l 9 B B Vol. XI . rn r~ rr1 b c,1 r· For· ~. J r.1 s k au p .i . MR. KELLAND: ThE! Libera] Party, The Opposi t:i.on, supporl·:s i·.:hf~ id~~a, t:hc,1 concepts of regional hospitals, and I guess thai: .is not a nr,1W p:·i.HCC:! oF information.

It SE!ems thE! burning quest"i.on nOIAJ, Mr·. M.i.n:i.str:!Y', is when will construction start on t.h~~ rr,1placetnen+. fdc.i.lit.y. And almost as important, where will it be located once construction starts? There are a number of reasons for that questlon which the minister is probably aware oF. T '*HldE:!r' "if you l~Joul.d comrn~:!nt. on what your thinking is as to the l.oc:at:i.on of l·.hf~ nE'!IAJ fac..-i.li . i::y, ;-:,,s l~Jel 1 as anyth:l ng you can g".i VE! on IAJ h c,1 n "i. I~ IAri. l J. s I~ d r· 1.: ? MR. SPEAKER : The hon. thc,1 M:i.n:ish1r of Hecllth . DR.

COLLINS: M r· . ~) p (,1 d k (;! t' ' T r:·1 In !) I l r· f:! L h e h 0 n . mt=:1mbE!Y' :i.s ~'!.IAidre that thE!Y'E! :iS i.'t C: 0 l'l S l Y' I. I C: l: ""i. 0 n !-r• f~ P. '1. B t: h i:'l t. haS another two yE!ars to run for rnaj 01n :i.nst:i.tul".:i.ons such as hospi.l:al!;, so it certainl~ will not be before 1·: h a t c o n s t. r u c t i. on f r· (~ e.;! z f'! ""i. s lifted. But, as I mentioned, thE!Y'C-?. f.,,y·~=! a l.ot of th··.i.ngs 1-.o be,, gonE! into before onE! makes a deci .s i.on on r'c:!pl.ac-i.ng SOII"H'!i::h:i.ng as elaborate as a hospital facil:lty.

WE:1 iH'E! t:'ngaged i.n an exli:>r'c:ise of that sort at the present ttrne. In terms of location, I think the h o n . rn (~ 1n b (,1 r· c ''' n b r:~ i'l s s u r· (c! d ·.i t :i s certainly going to be in the Happy Val.l.ey Goose Bay area, w""i.Lh:in close pr·oximi.ty to t:hE! pc:lrt.:icular n(~r~ds, l:hdl·. "i.s, Lht:' corniTlunJ.i:y itself, and the airport fac.iJtt.y. T cannot-. be more prectse 1:-.han thai:". at th:i s timE! . Mi~. KELI..AND : A final supplementary, Mr. Speaker . 1\Jo. 11 Rl7/.9

MR. SPF.AKF.R : A final. Sl.tpplc-:!rnc-:lntary, the member for Naskaupi. MR. KF.LLAND: l:.hE:1 hon . As the mi n:i si:E'r is atAtare, of course, the thought is tha~ i t should be equally accessible by i'lll. p r.l r ~ -L (~ s 1~1 h o Hkl y II ~; f~ l: h P servicE:1, c:iv:i.Jian and m:iJJtar·y, r.~nd, ther·efor·c ,,, l : h~1r·c~ 1.~; ~' l:r·ong thought th~t it should be off b~se <~l n c:l c: los (.~ r· to +: h tc1 c -j_ lJ ·i.l l ':l n community, but st.:iJJ r~~a.dily t:·l c: c: ''' s s i. b l t~ to ~ h<c1 mi.l. ·i. l:d t' 1J . MR. SPEI1KF.l~ : Or·der·, pJ eelS C.:!! MR.

KELLAND: He mentioned some other entities, r"'r·. Speaker·, and T tAtoul.d ask h i.tn :if he anticipates that the foreign goVE!t'ntnenl:.s :invol.v~~d -Ln Happy VallE'Y Goose 'Bay might bE! expc,1cted t:o be contri.bu I'.:E! ·i.n sotne way to the ' twenty-odd million dollars that may be requi.red to construct the fac:iJity? MR. SPF.AKER: r he h on . Uw M i n i. s t e r of H e ,:~Jl-. h . DR. COLLII\JS: Min. Speaker, -.if i:l r~~asonabJe case Ci'll'l b(~ rrti'ldf~ ,._ th;:·ll·. j _ S i:Hl dl"(.~d l':i'h·ll·: t~te ar·~., noi. n~1 gJ ect-.i ng to thc,1 Ct:Hli'ldirHl COVC'!r'l'lHHcHll : , to l:hr-:!

IJn:i.hHI St:e~b:1S Gover·nmenl and t.o other for ted g n go lJ <H' l'liiHHll: s tMhJ c: h hi·\lJ t;! frlcil:Lt:i.es -.in that iH'e,1a and have-:! rlOf:!dS :i.n l':hr.li·. ,:·lr'f~<:\ rOt' hcc1dl.l .: h cmr~:·, not only for thei1n rnJJ ·j ·ta.ry personnel. bul, perhaps, For dependents and so on, if a r· !':1 as on i'l b l f~ c i:l ~· t':~ c d n b (:1 rrtd cl r-~ ·i. n r:l n y direction we wiJl certainly make it. w~~ ar·e consc .lous of 1-:.hc,~ po 'i. nt that the member is referring to. MR. FENWICK : Mr. Speaker . L1730 May 10, 1988 Vol XL MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the tnetnb('!r for Meni.he,1k . MR.

FENWICK : Thank you Vf~ ry much, Mr·. Sp~H:l.b~r. M IJ q u e s '1-: :i. o n i s For· l':l·w M ·:i. n i s t. C:H' of Social S e r v :i c e s ( M r . To b j n ) , !At h o , 1 b c,1 l i e v c~ , IAI<'l :; h n I" C'' H n d I h o p ''~ .i. s J:istening on the phonE!S , If not:, ·1: he P t' c-~111"i. c;! t' c '~ n ;:·l n s t~J(. ' ! I" 1·.: h c;• questj on. Jt hr-lS t:o do lAti th the'! s :i L u-,,, -1'. ·i. t:1 n r· c,H!J d r·d :i. n <::J 1:: l'lC'! young offenders who would normally be pr·oct·:!ssed by Lhc:~ Young OFF<"!nclt-:!r's Reviet.~.t Board or· by Pr·ovinc:ial Cottl"t: or· Fdlrt .i.l.y Cour·t.

We:~ iH'E! talking about the Young Of·fe!rtdors Review Doi:lrcl of the Prov i n c e. The qUE!Stion I have for thE! tn:i. n 'i. s t e r· i. s t. h-i. s : It "i. s our understanding that there are bf~t1Att':1(.~1'l Le:~ n and l:.Wt;!lVc'! young offenders who have been waiting since:~ ~~ar·ly M<.'lr'ch 'in ord(:!r' l·.:o haVE! their hearings before the Young Off\.;!l'ld<;!r's Rev.i.(;~tAI Boar·d or the Provincial Courts. Because of the ba l:tl ·Lng b a ck and for·t:h over· jurisdiction between Judge Fowl~:!r's dt~cJsJon i:·lnd Judge: :! Wicks' decision, they have not yet had l:hc,~ · i. r· hc-~i:\l" ·ings.

Could l::he minister confirm that the number 'is cor·rr-~cl· ·. , bc,1+:t~H~f'!n l:e:~n and 1-:.tAIE!lV<'! ind:i v:idual s arE! h~~J d up Ul'i !; L~Jay, .:~nd, ftlr•·l : htH'I'rltH'Cc~, tj"i.lJ(';~ I.IS SOifiE• ind :i cation of how hE! :u; going U1 l. tc~ 1: I: he~ s c,1 poor· fH?.Op l. r-~ out.: oF the instjtutions they are in when none of 1: h c,~ o 1·: h or· rnr-~ c h t:·l n :i. s tn s s n r:~ 111 1:: o b r,~ t~Jor king ·to get thE!fTI ou L? MR. SPEAKER: T h ~1 h o n . 1:: h r-~ i"' J. n i s 1:'. ~~ r· n f So c :i. a l Services . MR. TOBIN: Mr.

Speaker, I arn sure thE! hon. lrttHni:H-:lr' and, inde\':'d, members realize, a1l the Off e,~ nd ec1 r s Rc,w :i. <'!IAJ Board IAJC\ s No. 33 . hon. Young put "in R1730

p 1. a c c~ •:1 s "' r· (,~ s 1 1 1. t of f r-;! d r-~ r d 1. Jeg:islat:ion that earn~~ as a result o f r h e Y o 1.1 n g 0 f f n n d (H' s A c 1--_ • T h c,~ Pr·ov:inco C~cted on :it and put in placo l ·.hc-~ R~~~J ·i.f'!IAJ Boru·d. T. c;p_l(c~S s :it WillS sornl'l months ago !'.·. hat. Judge F OIAJ 1. c~ r d f~ <·1 l. 1.: wJ t. h .i. l-. i.·l n d rnr:·H:I f:' h ·i s ruling on it as it relates to whethf'!r it is constitution~l. or not, and since then Judge Wicks has mad~~ i3. ruli.ng thai-: JAtas contrary, basically, to the ruling that was made by Judge Fowler.

As a rc,~sul.l:. of i::h•3.t. lAW hmvc-~ nOIAJ advj sed the Board that we l.l.lill be and have been referri.ng cases b~ck to that Roard. As I now l.tndc~r·stand i.t, Mr·. D:lxon has i ncU cated to us and publicly that i:.hE:~ Bo;-n·d :.i.s not.1.J go i.ng 1-:o hear· appeals ag~in, and that is the Si:1HI<,~ sysl·:(~lfl l:h•'ll: IAJdS -i.n pJ.i'lce prior· to Lhe dec:ision of Judge FOIAJl.c-H' and pr·Jor· l:o 1:1-lP d(~ci_ s i.on of Judg~:! W:1 cks. MR. FENWT.CK: Mr. Speal<c-?.r. MR. SPEAKER : T h o h o n . HH:~ tn c,~ rn I:H,H' F o r· M f:Hd I·H,~ k , d suppJ.E-Jmentary. MR.

FFNWTCK: If I understand the minister 1 s reply correctly, he is saying that I)J(o1 ar•c,1 nOI.IJ rc-?.fc-?.r·r-i.ng t.hf:!Sf:~ young offenders lo a board that does not have the constitutional. jurisdiction. MR. SPEAKER: Order·, ph1as~:'! MR. FENWICK: My question to the minist0r is this, Mr. Speaker: There is obviously a much easter way to solvE:~ this, and I am asld ng the rrri. n i. s i--_ H r· 1~1 i_ ll. h ~~ l. o o !< .~, 1·: 1--_ h (;! poss:ib:i1Jt:y of d:issolv:ing thE!

Y o 1.1 n g 0 f f fHl d e r· s R (,1 IJ i. n J~J f:lo •'H' d F o r· L.1731 May 10, 1988 Vol XL i:hr~ 1·.: i.1nr~ be:i. ng, and dll.otAJ 1-.-.1-w Appeals Courts to act, which c-~ IJ r-~ n 1-_ u "' ll. y ~~~ t ll. d r-:! c .i. d c-~ 1:: h ·j ~' rna t-. 1-:. o r· of whether the situation is c o n !; U. t-. 1.1 t i o n i:l 1. o r· n o 1·:. lAd 1-: h t h 'i. s Young Offenders Rev:iew Board? Dissolve the Goard now, let the appeals go to the Provincjal Court and the Youth Court where they bE! long, and then, IAJhen uw get thE! dc-?.c ~ i.s · i.on perhaps i.n i':l 1nont·.h or· VtAJO months from now from thE!

AppE!als Cou~t, we ~re in a position to look at reinstating thE! Boar·d if we havo to. Will the minister agreE! that this 'is a b~:!U.E!r s 'i. t·: u a t i o n t o g o IAri. L h 1-_ h a n l:. h P v f:! r· y doubtful one that he :is putting f o rJAJd r·d? MR. TOBIN : Mr . SpeakE!r. MR . SPFAKER: T h (c1 h () n . Hw M i_ n j_ s [-. ('! I" () r s () c i. (:1 J. Services . MR. TORli\J: Mr.

Speaker, we made a dec:is:ion SOHII~ l:ifllCc~ r.1g0 IAJh~:!n IAH:! df:!C.-i.df~d t:hat we would put. in place the Young OffendHrs Rrnv·i.ew Board dccording to the legislation that was passed b y L h c,~ C d n ad i . d n P m r·1 t a rn c,1 n t . T h a t.: legislation has been passed, as I sai.d, as a result of The Young Offenders Act. We have put thE! Boar•d in placf~. rhe BocH·d is noUJ operable. We haVE! again refE!rrE•d appeals to the Board. The Chairman of the Board and the Committee is now in place and they are hearing appeals as they always hi.,j,V8. MR. FENWICK: Mr . ~p~~ak€~r. MR .

SPF.AKER: A Final supplementary . MR. FFNWICK: M y f i n "' l. s 11 p p l H n1 f'! n 1--_ •:·l r· y 1. s 1:: h i. s , No. 3 3 Rl73l.

and it has to go to the hec:u·t of the question. What is the mi.ni.si·:er· go'ing l:.o do abot.tt t.he tc,~n or twelve young individuals who have spent. an c,~xt.r·a t.t~Jo tnonl:·.hs 'i.n ctJstody as a rE!SUlt of this f o u 1·- u p , IAJ h o h a v e n o c ul. p ;:~ b i.l. i. 1:. y tJ.Jhatsoever on this mess that the go v ~n· n men t h ;~ s p u t. L n p 1. r.u: e ? a r· e y o u go j n g to do to h a v e casos h~~;u·d ·i. nHncH·Iiatc,~ly? qu:i t_e fr·anl<l.y, not tAli th a Whal-. their (lnd Roard t:hi:\i": hi"!s no consi·.i.l~ul:i . onal. judsd:iction at th:"is point 't·.o hear· c:\ny l·:hi.ng. MR.

LONG: To pr·oi~e->.c'l". l:. hc,~:i.r· r·i.ghl·.s . MR. SPFAKF.R: The hon. l:hc-:! M-i.nis1-.~~r· or ~)oc: : i . dl. ServJ CE:lS. MR. TOBIN: Mr. SpE:~al<er·, I did not l<not. ... J thi.~t the hon. gentleman lAJas a judge of the Suprema Court. AN HON. MEMBER : Yes. judge and jury . MR. TOBT.N: Judge and jury. I can say to the hon. gc-?.ntleman, Mr·. SpeakE!r, IAJ~~ are going to do what tAle have been do.i.ng, l·:hi"'i': i.s, r(~f~HT""i.ng Ct'\S~~s t:o Lhe Young Offenders Review Board. MR. W. CARTF.R: Mr· ' s p (,~ r:\ kfH' . MR . ~1PF.(lK:':R: hon. the Ml~. W.

CARTER : Mr·. ~)peal<er·, my ques t:ion goes to l··. hf~ M'i.n.i.s l·:f:!r' of f-'i.sh::!r':i.r:!S. Not~J IAJf~ have t.he GoVE!rnrnent of FranCE! on one,~ hdnd df~rm:tnd i.ng thi:\t :. Newfoundland vessels, small inshore fishing vessels be licenc:E:~d. thoSE! that want to fish 1.173?. May 10, 191!8 Vol. XL IAJi l::l'l'i. n t h e:d r· s o ·- c a.ll. <;! d 1:: e r r oi I: o r· J a 1 waters, and on the othE!r hand IAJe havf:! a spokc,~srnan for· the-?. fc;!der·al. government saying that Canada does not accept that position. T IAJO n d c:~ r c an 1·.: he,) M :l n ·.i s 1:: e r t ~~ l. l L h e House, Mr.

Speaker, wherE! ciOE!S t h ;-::~ 1: 1. c-~ a lJ '~ 1\J ~~ t~J F o 1 1 n d l. a n d F i. s her· 1 n E• n who want to fjsh in what the F r· ~~ n c h ;:·\I" c~ c 1. ,:, -i.nri. n g 1': o b (! 1:". h (! -L r· twelve-mile territorial waters? MR. SPEAKEI~: lh:~ hon. 1-:hc-~ M:i.rri.!; l··.cH' of F . i.sher·:i.~'!S. MR. RIDF.OUT: Tht!ink yo11, Mr. Spec:-lkE!r. Wel 1, obvj ousJ y, Mr·. Speaker·, :1 t .l c-~ <:\ lJ c,~ s 1: h (~ o 1: 1": ~=! r t r· (,\IAJl. fl. e e 1:: , ·"L n particular, in a very, very, dJ.frJc:t.lli·: si.l-".uc:\l:.·i.on.

T l".h·i.nl< Lh<,1 Government of Canada is taking the r· :i. g h I~ d p p r· o a c h o n 1--. h c;! q u E! s t. -:i. o n o F licences and permits, since the 197? Treaty g-i.ves bot.h countries the right to insti.tute! a regula I:. or· y r·eg:i.me . It. also indicates that nejther would do so for the inshore fishery. So, France is taking a d:i.fferE!nt <:\pf>r'oach I'H;!r·~~ not.~.J, i.'IS of of last. Friday or last Thursday, IAJh 1:1 n ~~ V 1:1 Y' t h ~~

l) f~ S S (:~ l. IA)i:\ S C h i:'t r• 9 ~;! cl ·- and I t.hi.nk Canada at thE! prE!SE!nt t - i.lfl!~ ·i.s do.i.ng Lhf?. r·:.i.ght . th ·i.ng by insisting that ~his is not the C:

l) r• r• I~ c: 1-. .:\ p fl r 0 ~~ C h r:~ n d t In y 'i. l'l 9 1": 0 convjncc~ Fr·ance to chCingE! it-.s m·i.nd. Brtl: ·i.n l:hc-~ ·i.nl·:nr·i .rn, and hop<~fully befor<.;! t.his d.~lY is OU€H', IA)O I~J - i . l.l hi'\IJCo~ '>Oirt(;! d~:!fi.ni . ti.ve answer to that. type of questJon. We are tAJorkj ng very, very hcu·d on i.t: tlOIJ.J. "'If~ hr•\Vf~ btHHl IAJOr'k .i.ng V(;!r'y hard on it since the whole .i.nc.i.d<-a.nt-. 1-:r'r\nsp ·"Lr·Pd, and I din hoping, before the day j s OVE!r, we tA.Ji.ll have conf :i.rmal: .i on Fr·om External and DFO as to just how we No. 33 IH'73?.

i'..trE:~ going t:o r' i. g h 1:. p h r' '" s c,~ <H't"ang~~rnent s. 1 MR. W. CARTF.f~ : hr-..\ndl.€~, pc,~rhaps t:.he tn-i.ghi·. br,1, 1 ' i.nL~-:~r·i . nt (l sup p 1. fo!lriC:Hl l:.r:n· y , Mr· . S p f~ r:-1 k r;! r . Mf~. SPF(lKFR: ThE:~ hon. the For· TIAri.l.l. i nga l:r;! . MR. W. CARTER : Mr·. SpeakE!r, I t.hink therE! haVE! been a number of people change their a 1: tj tudes toward t h :i. s p o 1 i. c y because;!

I rr:1cal.l, I belir,~ vc;! i.l·: IAias on Fri.day, thE! minister hirnSE!] f I believe welcomed, at least :indicated that he 1..11eJ.corned the announcement : that. vessels would have to be licenced to fish in our rc,1spc-?.c l··.i. VE:1_ l:.C'!Y'r·""i.t.or·"i.;:·ll. 1~1ater·s. But. anytAir.ly, Mr·. of the mat t er is MR. SPE(lKFR: Order·, pl 10:~ase! MR. W. CARTF.R: Sp€~r.~kc,1r', 1-:h€:! f;~ct. now that France- My ques t·:i on to the mj n:ister· j s, :in l.i.ghl· : of UH;! fact l·:hr-11·.

Fr'<.HJcr,1 ·is now insi st.::i ng that Nt~IAifoundland srnal.J. draggr:H':> tH:1 J. ·i.ct-:HJc;r,1d, "i.n view of the fact we have the Government of Canada s~y 1 ng no, w0 a r· E! n o t. g Cl :i n g t o g o a 1 o n g tAd t h t:hat, hi.·ls Lhr:1 trdn:i .shH' rndde represen t ation to the federal m:i.n:is I:<·H' suggest ·i.ng mdybE:1 Uldr. Newfoundland vessel.s, which want to F·i. s h wii::h:-i.n l:: h(~ ar·e' dS thai : ·l:he1Y have traditi.onally fjshed, be g i. v C.;! n s o tn e p r· o t c-:1 c H. o n a g <:d n s l possible arrest on the part of the F r e n c h aut h or· i. t i.

C'! s b y UH~ Government of Canada? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries . MR. RJOFOUT: M r· . S p ~~ <::1 k f'!r' , Uw r· c,1 iH' c,, "' n 1 nui:HH' o f I 1733 May ltJ, 1988 Vol XL things in the hon. gent1eman 1 s p r (~ r:·l HI b 1. ~ ~ d 1'1 d q 1.1 0 S 'l·. ··i. 0 1'1 [·: h •:'1 t n ~ ; ! (:1 cl t. 0 be cHISWE:H'ed. Fir·st of al 1, ·l:hE! hon. gc-HJi-.l.c:Hfi•:Hl IJ.ri.l.l. F'i.nd I'IOI)Jh~H'O, over ~he last number of days, si. nc:c~ 1-.:hi. ~; IJ.Ihol.f~ .i.ncJcl(~nl . star't:.~:!d, that I welcomed the announcement by l · : h~'!

Fr·c·:!ncl·l l.:hr!lt l·.:h('!Y aJ"(~ go"i.ng to impose a permit. system. AN HON. MEMBER: That is not true. MR. RIDEOUT: Well, if it is not trUE!, Mt" . Sp(:1ak~:!r', thai :: obvtousl.y rrt€'!ans Tam lying, and I am not. Now, the fact of the rnatt:e!r is you IJ.d.1.1 f ·i.ncl rJOIAJhE!t'e ·1-:.h<.d.: '[ IAJC-?.}COI'nr.;!d a pE:1rmit system by FrancE:!. You IAri.l.l. fi.nd tny co1nrn(~nts l~o t·:.h"is effect -- MR. SIMMONS : On the public airways . r:iR· SPEAKER: 0 r' d o t' , pl. f~ a s (~ ! MR. RIDEOUT: Co get: tJwrn! Yo11 i)J ·i.lJ. fi. nd wy comrnc:HJts, Mr .

Spc:1aker, to tl'lis effE!Ct: It -.is t·· h o p o ~ ; :i. 1·. i. o n o f 1··. h ~=! P r· o cJ .. i. n c c-?. 1·:. h a -1': thE! historic status quo should b E! rn<:dnl:r.dnod, 1~1h.ic:h trl(~i:HlS a n o -1 i c e n s e s i t u a t i o n . B u t i f t.l·w Fr·ench cH'E! go 'L ng t-.o i.rnposc.;! pr;!r'lnits and licenses, then obviously we would be calling upon the Government of Canada to do the s;:un(~ t·.h"i.ng. NOIAI, 1:-. hr.d~ "i.s qu:ite differe!nt, Mr. Speake!r, than say "i.ng SOllie body IAH~l.C01n€'!d a PC'!Y'ITii. t. or a ljcensing system. On the second part of the hon. gentleman 1 s que s tion, Mr.

SpeakE!r, 111~~ h<:liJn had mor·e conl··.acl·: , almost on an hour·] y basis, but certai.nl y Sf~IHH', :·ll. L·i.rnc~s ·~ d.:,y, 111J l·: h DFO and No. 3 3 1n 733

External Aff~irs trying to work out some particular arrangement that u.ri.ll conl:i.nu~:! to bE! to ·t.he benefit of the fishermen of Newfoundland, pi":lrt i.cul.ar1y !:hose on the South Coast, on this particular matter. MR. W. CARTER: A final supplementary, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAI<F.R: A fi.n~:~l suppl(:!Jn(~n~;u·y, 1:1·1!~ hon . the member for Twill:ingate. MR. W. CARTER: M r• .

S p E:1 ·~·1 !< <:! r' , "i. 1: •'I p p r,1 r'1 t' s I: h r:1 l": I: h o r· '" ar·e at ] E~ast u~Jenty NE~IAifoundlandE!r' L n s h<H'<c1 d t'r:19 g (cH' s ' iHld r'1 n I.IHJbr'1 r 0 r boats under thirty-five feet in l.c~ngl ... h, l".hr'll ·. fr'OCilll c!l'll": l:hi:11": rH'f~r'1. NOIAI, th:is :it tiH:! t:ime of yerH' IAJhen l·:hr,'y I~Jould n<H'Hlo"ll.ly Fi.sh "i.n l":hal: <H'ea. My q u ('! s 1:. i.o n l:".o L ho ln-i. n·i s 't:er· l·:h(~ n, Mr.

Speaker·, and :it is <'l a rE!peat of rn y p r c;! v ·.i. o us q tH~ s l: :ion : W-i. ll he make representation to his federal c o u n -1-. e t' p a r· t. , t h a t IJ n l:.il. 1:. h c,1 y c a n arrive at a resolution to this l.icenslng problem will the Government of Canada offer to protect. N(o:11AJfoundl.and V<.;!ssel OI}.Jner·s who have traditionally fished in that: ar·ea and IAJho st.i.l.l IAJHnl~ l.:o fish there? W:i]J the Government of Canada g - i.vr·~ l :: hr:~m l:hH necc-:'!SSdry protection against harassment or -i.nt(;!r·cept.i .on or· arr•r:!sl·: by Fr·ench offj dr.t1s? MR.

SPEAKFR: The hon. {he Mtni s'LEH' of Fj shc~1r:i.es. MR. IUDFOUT : Mr·. ~)fH~i'll<tH', J ,:·1SSIIIIIC~ l-.1-w hon. gE~ntlEHnan :is suggest:.ing i:hr.d: IAIE:~ go "i.ns · i . df:~ Or l:he l.ll'ldi. spul:r~d Wdl:r,H'S surr·ound:l ng St.. P:-i erre and M 'i. q u <~ 1. o n , b r.~ c a 1.1 s e "i. 1·.: .i s i. 1'1 s :i d E:~ L h f~ tweJve-miJ.e zone that we are 1:. a J. I< ·L n g i'1 b o 1.1 1:. h f~ r· (~ .

ThE~ Ll734 May 10, 1988 Vol XL Government of Canada position about this whole 1i.censing permit sysh:!rn that. 1~1e ar·e l.:al.k:i.ng mbout, by the way, is that thE! mo1ne you invc~st:igatc,1 that l: hc,1 more difficult and complicated it bE:1conH~s. :r-1-. appear·s fr·orn l::he application form that the French h d v e c i. r· c ul. <:<~ l·: f:! d a n d s o 1 n f~ o f o u r fishermE!n have gotten and we have n OIAJ go 1·: t (~ n o u t• h i:1 n d s on , L h r::l 1:: 1.: h E:! y are not only talking about the u n d ·i:s p 1.1 1:. E:1 d ti~Jc,11.

t) c,1 .. mJ. l. H zonE! surroundjng St. Pierre and r./l:i.Cjllrc'l.On b11l~ i:1Y'f~ ·l:al.k i.nq i'tbout i:hE! !AI h o J e d :i s p u t E! d t h e z o n e , l h P 1.~1 h o J e r,1 C: 0 1'1 0 HI' i C '% 0 I ' H~ . l 1'1 t-:1·1 d 1: c i)1 5 F.! , i: hE! hon. gentleman is abso] utc,,J y t•i. l!J h l:, t: hr'll. ·i. ~; l~l~h'l '1". I~Jf~ oH' !~! ~;a y i. 1'19 Clnd that is IAJher·e IAIB arE!. But j n tf:!t'Hl!> oF .ins:J.dP i ·.hf~ und-:i.sput:E~d twelve - m:lle territorial zone r:1r'Ot.Jnd ~11.:.

P:i.Ht'r'n dl'lcl Miquel.on, that :is a much more djff:icult q 1.1 r.~ s 1": -i.o n L o add t' c:! s s ·i. n 1:: f~ r· rn s of l·:hE~ qLif~S l::i.on l:hr:'tt ho pOSC:!S. M r . S p c-~ a k <H' , IJJ <,~ ;u· o , o n c1 cl a :i. 1 y basis, several times a day, OVE!r Ll·w lasl:. n1.1rnbfH' of days, J.n touch with the federal government trying l: o u.Jo r· k o u t a s o l. u t. :i. o n t hat i s t. o the benefit of the fishermen of NetAJfoundl.dnd and Lctbr·ador· on thi.s matter. MR. FUREY: Mr·. Speaker. MR. SPF.AKER: HIE! hon-.-the membE!r for St. BarbE! . r./IR. FllRFY: Mr·.

Speaker·, I have a qu:lck quc,~s L·i.on fr)Y' l:hr,' Pr'Hrn:i.or·. rn J.:ight of Mr. Crosbie's staternE!nt :. s r·o c f'! n Ll. y 1·.hr:1l'. he~ doH s no 1··. '~liHl t.: l:: o see the Canada France fish:ing rhspui:r~ r '!SC:al.dl· : r~ ·i.ni:o i:1 l·:r·adc,1 war·, a.nd :in J ight of Mt". Clark's s 1:. ,:'l !·: E~rnc-:! n i: s i·: hr:·l 1·.: h f;! I riLls 1: p r· o 1-.: E! c 1:. jobs in Nova Scotia, I wonder IAJO ul. d t: h ~~ P r· f:! rn 'i. c~1 r· a g r· l~ E~ to No. 33 R1734.

s l:r·:i. ktng i'll'l all - pr.lr·ty commH : hH~ on an urgent basis to go to Ottawa to HHH~ 1:·. IAri. L h l·. h (! p r •i. me:! r~ i. n :i. s 1-,(:! r iHH:I to Jay out thH case Jn an n o n · p i:t Y' t J s d 1·1 ·f <:·\ s IT i. o n f o r· "' l. l of NE~wfoundlancl r..tr1d l..abr·ador? MR. SPFAI<ER: ThE~ hon , Lhc:1 Pr't:Hnieln . PREMIER PFCKFORD: Mr. Sp€~aknl", I thj n k the 9 o lJ e,H' nuH~ n +: of qu:ite capabJ C.:! rep r· <-?. s (~ n ·t. a t.: ·i. on member refers to. J\J ('!IAJ F o u nell d n d d )n(:1 the hon . of rna ld ng !::h<;\t l::he· ~ MR. SPEAKER: The hon. thc,1 ITH~rnbc,1r For St. Bar· b(:1 . MR.

FUREY : Mr·. Speaker·, pe-n· haps I: he-) can teJ] us the results r· e p r· e s c,1 n 1: a t i. o n 1': h r o 1.1 9 h J etters and phonE! ca] J s last little while? MR . SPEAI<FR : Order·, please! MR. FUREY: P r· c:11n-i. ~~ r of his h~l.r:1XE~S, over thE! Co 11 'l. d 1-. h f~ P r· c:1111 L n r· 1: r,11. J. 11 s t. h e,1 results of his persona] r· f~ fl t' n s ~~ n 1-. d (': i 0 n s ' () n b 0 h d l. r 0 r 1: h r~ govel"nTnEHd: on cancE~Jling the-?. l'fl f;! 9 .:-\ ·- b j_ 1.1. 'i. () n d () ll. i'\ r· c 0 n I: r· r:\ c I: ~; IAI :i. 1·. h r'E·!Specl to the A:i r-I:HJs and lh8 subrnr'lr':i.rH~s?

Mi:·lyl:>e~! hf~ UHJ l~ol.l. 11s 1.11hat thE! rE:1suJ.t.s of thoSE:1 representations hcive been? MR. ·SPEAKER: ThE~ hon . UH~ Pr·(~mi.c,1r . PREMIER PECKFORD: We are working on it., Mr. Speaker. MR. FUREY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary. Md y '1. 0, 19 B a Vol XI . MR. FURI:;,Y: · ThE~ truth of thE! matter is, Mr. S p (~ "' k e r , 1.: h A l·: ·i. -1: .i. s 1. c'! r· o , n o t h "i. n g , absolutely nothing . Now, I ask l-·. he,' P r' f:!lrri. c:! t' .. Mf~. SPEAKFf~: 0 r' d o r , p l. E~ t:·\ s l:! ! SOMF HON. MFMRFR§: Oh, oh! MR. ·SPEAKER: OrdE!r, pleasE~!

I have the hon. member's a I~ l:. en'l:'ion and 1..11hen al':i:.ent-:i.on. tiAr'i. c e I do or three times, I ask h].rn to pay Would the hon. membE!r pJ.eaSEl h:is f-inal suppl.t,1111C:1ni·.:ar·y? MR. FUREY: Mr. Speaker, I apologize. pose In the last number of weeks we h d V ~1 S e:H:Hl i'l b S 0 l.u (·: E~ l, y LCH' 0 C 0 In e from Ottawa. Now I ask the Pr·c~miot· IAIOI.Il.d he~ l'lOIAI s l:r·i.ke an aJ]-par·ty committee, for thE~ good of ;:\ ll. l·: h ~~ f i. she:~ l"lllfHl "i. n 1·: h i. s Province to go to Ottawa, meet f"' c: e,1 1: o f ,;, c: c:' I)J·i. 1: h 1':1·11:! P r' .i.lrlf:!

Min:ist:er·, and CJ.J.] the,, poloit.ics and n () n !) (~ l'l s e· ~ d s i. de~ ' '1. r:·l y () u 1-: 1:: hE~ c d sf;! of why there should be shared b 1.1 r· d on "' c r· n s !; 1". h i. s c: o u n 1:. I" y ,. ~~~ h y Canada as a whole should share the b u r· d e n ,;, n d n o 1: j u s I: 1\J ~~ IAJ F o u n d 1 i-:'l n d ? MR. SPEAKER: The-?. hon. +:he-?. Pr·~:!mit:1r'. PREMIER PECKFORD: M r .

S p e,1 1:1 I< e r· , I F ·.i n d :.i. 1:. d t f f i c u 1 t to agree with the hon. member's s u g g e s t :i. o n b '"' c au s ~~ t. h a i:. wo u l. d be putting on a committee membE!rS of d pol.i.t "i. cal. par·ty who do no t IAJclnt. to see Ne~.o~Jfoundland shr.-:trE! any gr'f::1illl:l'!Y' j ur·'.i.sd·i.ct.ton "i.n l::hc~! fishery of Newfoundland and No. 3 3 Rl'/35

l.. abr·ador. SOMF. HON. MEMBERS : H e a r· , h o a r· ! PREMIER PECKFORD : We will b e p l aying right into Cc~ntr·al Candda 1 s hcH1ds to have anybody from the Opposition a c c om p a n y ·i. n g u s , b e c a u s <~ +:. h <;! r· ~~ a r· ~~ quite a fe1.u in CentraJ. Canada and i n L h f~ Mar· .i. t ""i. rn ~!! P r· o v i n c c;! s t•.J h o do not IAJant t.o seE! us hr:lVe any more say over: t:h~~ FJ. shcH'Y, or· we IAJoul.d not be :into ti'ds ITIE!SS 1.ue arE! jn now. Nor·, Mr·.

Sp~~t:tk!:!!r', Sf~condl.y, could I agree to taking members F r· om I: h o 0 p p o s J -!--. i. o n r.1l. o n g b f~ c d 1.1 s r~ the:ir· pos:i tion j s g:i UE?. Nor·thern cod l·.o l:h1,1 Fr·~~nch. SOME 1-101\J. ~'lEMA U~~) : HE!iH' I hNll"! _MI~. ~-JPEAKF.B.: Order, please! T h t,1 1-: . .i.1 n E:1 For· 0 r· •::tl. Q u f~ s 1·: ·i. o n s h a !; eJ.apsed. Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given DR. COLLINS : Mr . Spc,1a k t~r· . MR . SPF.:AKER: The han. the Mjn:ister of Health. DR. COLLINS: iV!r.--specJ.!(E•I" 1 just: IJery bric,1f]y. The hon.

I:I·H~ IIH!!lfii:Jr:!r' for POI"-1-: df~ G r· a u e ( M r· . F f f o r·

d) a s k e d rn ~~ a q u f~ s t :i. o n J. n Q I If~ s 1·.: -i. o n P c!!r' ·.i. o d <:11'1 d C hi-lUE:1 ~;orne :informati<HI t .o g:-i ve 1'101~1. ~:)1) [ dl"fl i:;::tk·i.ng l·:hH C(II('!SI·:·i.on :in Qu~~stion PE:1rj od as a quest:i on <::t c c f~ p 1: f!! d by lrll-!! o n no l: -i. c: f~ . The ho n . rnr"!rribfH' patient who was r·l,1 ff~r·r·f~d adrrd tled L.l736 May 10, 1988 1: () i"·l to the Vol XL Health Sciences Complex. The d~?. l:tdl.s r.tr•c,1 as folloi.-~Js: On Apr·i.J. 6, the E!J.dE!rJ.y patient, IAJho had a nurnbc;!r' of chr·on-.ic cliseases, IAJas seen in the Out Patients at: thE!

Health Sciences Complex and was subsequently returned homE!. It IAk\S l:h~~ dc-!!t:c-!!r'mi.nt:"lt.ion "in Out Patients that the patient shouJ.d b ~~ r· <-!! t.: u r· rH~ d h o111e . S h c,1 IAJa s a 1 so SE!Bn, as arrangE!d, again thE! nE!Xt d c:·l y on Apr· :i.l. 7 . ShE~ IAJa s L hE!! n clue to come back for further review on A p r· 'i. l. 11.1- . 1·1 o IAHW ~!!Y' , o n A p r· i . l 1 3 I the day before she was due to como b~~ck, sho I;.Jas adnri.I::LHd i:'IS an e!TIE!rgency 1..1d.th a certain symptom. Jl ... I~Jds dPt:r~r·rn·i. n~:!d l·:hr.·lt. l.:h '"i. s IAJi:·lS a new condit:ion.

She had certain ·i. n IJ o s 1'". i. g .:l t: :i. o n s . ~:) h o s u b s ~'! q u ~!! n t l. y had ~;urgE:1ry and, unfortunat.E!J.y, UH~ foll.ol;ri.ng ddy si·H~ succurni:HH:I as ~ resuJ.t of the particular disease p t' 0 C f~ S S . ~') 0 1·: h 0 S I'! i:·\ Y' ::! 1·:. hE~ d E:! 1·:. c:l J l. S of l::hr:~l: CdSC-!!. MR. WINDSOI~ : Mr· . S FH~ a. I< c;! r· . MR. SPEAKER: The bon. the Min-.ister of FinanCE! . MR. WINDSOR: Mr. Speaker, I t ·able thE! ansi..IJE!r t:o ques l:ion l'ltlfnl:><-!!r' IJO fr·orn the hon. thE! ITIE!mbe!r for Gander (Mr . BakE!r). DR. TWOMEY : Mr. Spec!lker . MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. the M""i. ni ster of Public Works, DR. TWOMEY : T 1·1 d n k y o 1 1 I M r· . S p c;! a k c,1 r . T 1~1 .. i. s h -1: n 1-: 1:·1 b 1. H i. n 1·.: h i. s 1-1 c:n1 s P answer·s to qUE!St]ons asked ~in l:.hE! E s U.HI<::t 1: f!! s . (l q Ill-'! s -1: ·i. o n l~li:'l s a s kf:! d by the member for Burgeo Bay d 1 F s p o · i. r· ( M r . c; -i.l b o r· t. ) cl E'! a l. .i n g with the executive purchase of No . 3 3 Rl'736

vehj c] es; another question was askc;!d by l:.h~~ sarnc,1 111<-:lrnbc-:lr' d(.~al..ing with rentaJ space; another qtH~st "i.o n 1~1as ask1:~d by l· : h(.~ salrt(.~ rnernber· on th€:~ 01nder Pap€:1r dealj ng IA.J "i. 1-. h 1·: h r,~ l o c .:~ 1-. i. o n d n d c: o s 1·: o f rental space in the St. John's .:~r·(.~<'l; a no l.:h(.'!l" qt.tns l:.i.on 1~1ds .:-1s ked jn t:he EstimatE:~s by the hon. n 1 ~~ 1 n b f:! r· f o r· ~) 1·: r~ ph r·:! n tJ 'i. 1. l. o ( M r· . K . AyJ.t.o~.Jat"cl) d~H:l.l'.i ng t.o~.d t.h his rE!qUc->.s t for· "i. nfot"llltlii':.Jon on 1:he nyr,~ gl;::~ss S~~I"V'.l CE!S. MR. WARR[N : Mr· .

Sp€:1Ciker. MR . SPEAKER : The-:\ hon. Ulto~ M"i.ntster· of Nor·thCH'n DeveJopment. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, I wish to table an answer to the question on the Order Paper by the member for Naskaupi (Mr·. Kelland). The question was: How many people are currently working in· my office? The ansl~ler :is two. How many of these persons were appo"i.n~ed by Order-in-Council? The answer is '1-.t~lo. L:i.sl ... (~ach l:tl·:l.(~ and sal.dr'y <:~ppl:it~d Lo that tj i:J e. f.xecuti ve A s s :i. s L c:) n 1: I s () . 0:?. p ;:~ y s c o'll (o! ; secretary to the minister Hl.12 pay scale .

Table d job description for each 0J'~cl~~r .. -tn ·COIII'lC 'i.l? The~ r:·lrl~)I"JOt .. ~~ ·j s r c,~ g u J. iH' d u t :i o s <:t s s o c j at e d tu:i t h t he pos i.l: 'i.on. T. rn-i.ghl:. add' Mr·. Sprc~i :~kf'!ln I l'll'l ox i:: r'H requirement I considered when sel.(~ct-i.ng i:hr,~ i.ncl .i.v i.dur.-11. IAJdS l::hnl -. that person would give at least 1 00 p €:H' c <->. n l: of 1:: h ~:! ·i. r t~oJo r k :i. n g hour· s and ta] ent to the peop] E! of Lab r· ado r , and ·i n par· t . t c u 1 a r· l: o t:. he constituents of Torngat Mount. a ins .

T be 1 :i. c-:1 v e Uta 1: l hose two people have done that . any of thOS(~ jobs 1..1737 May 10, 1988 Uo] XL advertised? The Executive A s s J s t: <:·1 n 1:: 1 s p o s i. 1·: ·i. o n 'i. s a t r a n s f E! r within the department. The ~') (~ r: r· r·>. 1: a I" y 1: o i ~ h ~~ M ·i. n i. s ·t·: e r· ·i. s a transfer from Social Services in 1\J<:<~i.n, dnd subs(o !C(l.l(~nt. l.y l::hE! posit'.i on j n Nain has bE! en fiJ lE!d b y d n o ·t·-. h u t' r· H s t d f;! n l~ o F 1\J ;:,1 oi. n , subsequently giving an unemployed pf~r·son ·i.n 1\lr'l·i.n <:1 pos:it. ·i.on tAJor·king t.o~.d t. h g o v e r n rn E! n t .

M r . S p e c~ I< E! r· , !-:hose Sdlnc~ dl'lSI~Jc,~t'!; i.·lppl.y -t·: o i:hE! ques ·tion as ked by thE! mE!rrtber· fr·om M r~ rl'i. h H k ( r~ r· . F e I'll AI' i. c I< ) o n 1". h E:! 0 r· d t:! r· Pt'lPfH' also. Petitions MR. W. CARTER: Mr·. SfH>.al<er. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the mE!rnber for TIJ.ri.l.l. "i. ngat(>. . MR. W. CARTER : Mr. Speaker, I beg leaVE! to pr•c,~sE~nl: d p~~t.'.i.l:ion s : i . gnc,~d by almost all of the residents of r "i. 1. z a r· cl 1 s H a r· b our , ·i. n 1:: h (.~ d i. s t.: r· i c t. of T1uillingate, of courSE!. ThE! [:H>. L i. 1... i. o n , M r· . S fH>.

"1 k f>.t' , r· tcH'l. d s a s follo1~o1s:

Whereas televisjon 1·: h 0 IAIO r• l. d 0 V (! Y' d !) med :i.urn :in the ,; 1.11. I: 1.11·· d 1. •·1 n d s n t: ·i. i.'l. l. a community, and Wher·c,~as <:~dj ac:f:!n l: Tizzard's comrnunit.:ies l:: () 1: h f~ Harbour j s rc,~cognj zc,~ cl •>11'1 i.rnpor ·t:anl· . Hducat.:i onr.~J, d r· ~ tJ r,~ l . o pn1~ : ! n i:·. oF i.rniTIE!doi a tc,~ 1y c r:nnmu n i. t y of haVE! rE!CE!ntly b~=!r:>.n and p r· o v 'i. d (~ d t.o~.ri . l·: h c e1 b l. <->. v -:i. s -i. o n , rE!Sidents of T:izzard's Harbour have bc,~~~n d~~n:ir:~d acCE!SS to cable television, und<'!r·sJgned No . 3 3 R1737

r·o!.ddE:~nl:s of l i.zL,:1rd 1 s H"'lt'bOtH', your pot j t.J oner·s, ht~mbl y pray and cr.\11. upon +. : h(~ HoLISH of Ass1· ~H1bly l:.o :i nstr·ucl: the M:i.rd sler· of Consumer· Affr.Yi . r·s and Couunurl'i.cat: i.on!; l~ o inter·cede on our behalf by mc:1king r· ~~ p r (,~ s (~ n t. a 1: ion 1: o +.: h ~~ N· .. l Cab 1. c,~ Tel.ev:ision Company l..imitE!d and, if nE:~C(:1SSClY'y, to the C[(fC 11 IAliri. c:h, Of course, j s thr:1 regulatory federal body, 11 1..ui.l: h a vi.E!IJJ t.o hav.ing cabl.c-:1 television service extended to T'i.:zz;:u·d 1 s Har·bour. 11 Mr•.

Speaker·, I realize, of course, +:hat thi s House does not have jurisdiction over cable +:.e l. c,w :i. s Jon, bu ~. UH:1 pt'i\1Y c:H' of I·.: he;! peUt:ion I th:ink is quite l.l'~gil·:.i.llli:1h~ -i. n t·.hal-. th8SC'! pc,~oplc~ feeJ. · l.hat they have been d 'i. s c r· t 1 n :L n <~ l-. ~ ~ d a 9 ;:·\ :i. n s L . T h c.:! y ,:'1 r· "~ d.!;ldng thc-dr· House.;! to :instr·uct the M'i.n-i.s l·:ur of ConsuJnc,n· AfFd i.r·s and Cornrnun:icat:ions (Mr. Young) l:o make r· ,,~ p r· c.~ s c,~ n l': ;:'1 t ·i. on 1: o 1·: h c,~ 1: H l r·~ v 'i. !) i on cornpany on the:i r bel·ral f. Mr.

Speakl'H', Ti zzar•d 1 s Harbour is i'\1'1 i.lnpor·l-.anl·., all-:hotlgh SHii:\1.1, fj sh:i ng community on thE! Northeast Coasl-. of OIH' Pr·ov'i.ncE!. :u·. ·i. s ,:'1 community where we have hard-working, independent people, most of IAihom derive their livelihoods from the sea. I suggest to you too, Mr. Speaker, t:hat. it 'i.s a COHirnuni.t:y t.ui'HH'O t.hey probably have less cases of social ass'i.st.ance +:han any ol':hor community of its s:ize in the Prov-i.nce. Tl·ws~~ rE!S'i.dE!nh;, Mr. SpE:H,)kc'!r', fo~~l they i~re enU tl ed to thE! SE!rViCE! of c "'b l. t·~ t-. c.:! l. f~ v .i s .i. o n .

T h c.:! y h"' \) ~~ seen othE!r cornruuni'l:ies :in the C~r~:! d, n.:wH:1l.IJ Mor·f ~ i-.on 1 s 11dd>otlr', Rddg~~por·t, VallE:1Y Pond, l.t..Jh:ich :is "i. n l".i'H:! 'i. tnln I·H:I :i. a 1·. (.~ cH' (~ i.'1 • 9 n 1·: c; db l. ~! t~~lev:i.s:ion cHid for· some.;! unknol.t..ll1 rf~i.·\!)01'1 1·.-.i'H:~ · i.r cornrnurl'i.l ... y 1'1.:-1 !; b:HH1 om'.i t . b~d. l..l73B M;:., y 1. o . 1 9 a a lJo 1 X 'I. MR. C(li .I.Jll\1 : I t :i s u n e c o n o rrd c . MR. W. CARTFR: Mr· . s fH~ r:·1 k (;! r. 1:: h (~ )(I(~ tnb E'H' F () r· Bellevue (Mr.

Callan) Si'lys that i t. i.s l.li'H~COI'lOHI"i , c l·:o SC.O!r'IJ"i.c~ : ! r -i.7.:zar·d Is Harbour. Now, let me tell him, M r . S p E:1 m k ,,1 r , U1 d t -L t. L !; no rn o r· e unE!conornic to serv:i CE! Tizzard 1 s H d r b o u r· 1·: h a n s o u1 c,' o f t h (.;! o i:. h c;! r places that have been ser·viCE!d in ·1: h ~'! --i. rrnnc;! eLi. at (:1 a r· o d . Not only that, Mr. SpeakE!r, sure1y ;:~ co1npr."ny l: h <·ll~ hdl> bf::!E! n g:i.ven a licence to install and operate C d b l. C:1 l~ ~~ J f~

I) i. S '.'i. 0 rJ , IAl h -j_ C h i !; , Cl 1:: 1 e a s t from IAl hat I c a n u n d e r s t. a n cl • i:l IJ(:!r·y l.tiCt'i:\Li.VH bus:i.nl'~SS --· i.l: 'i.s not a poverty stricken business by ,:-,ny rnc,1.:'1ns ..... Stlr:~ly l':hf~s~ : ! cotnpan ·i.os must be expected to take t.:he small pl. t'\ C: C:1 S l~ri. 1: h 1". h H l. d r• 9 0 I" p l ;:·\ C ~~ S . Thc'!Y shottlc:l not b1·:! t'lll.ot~H : !d l·:o p .i. ck and choose whc,~re Lhc'! Y lAiclr1't l:o l'~ x hH1 d t: h o i. r· s o r· 1ri. c ('! s .

F o r· example, jf that were the case, l:h~H1 only IJH:! l.ar·gfH' ur'i:HH1 drE!I9.S in the country would today have cctbl.a teleu'i.sion. T suppos~~ t:hl':! s<:tHH~ l:.h:i.ng coul.d bE! said for telephone service. If l:he telephone companies were allowed to pick and choose and al.l. o1~1 only l::hc,~ serv ·i.c t'! to bc,1 put in the larger, more densely popul;::tl:. ~~d cornrnun'i.t.::-i.1':1S, l:·.h(;!n .... AN HON. fi.1FMBER: (Inaudible) . MR. W. CARTER: r'lr·. Spc,~i:\kC'!t', T.

I.AlOnCk!r' I~IOUl.d you ask the member for Bellevue to pl. r·H·\ s {~ r'l,1 tllt'\ :i. n s ·i.l.1H1l-.: 1~1h 'i_ l. e I present:. th:i.s jmportan'l: IH't:.i U.on. He~ tnJ.\jh l: l.r:-1t1gh btll' j L i. s no 1.. a jokl'~. It js not a jokE! in T ·L7.1.dt'r:l 1 !) H;:n·botrr·. Pl.Hi .>l!;e, tAJou"l d he r(,1maj n quiet. IAlh:i 1 ~~ I arn do ::i ng 1\lo. B ln'738

my job? Mr. Sper.tker, as I tAfas pointing out a moment ago, cable television companies should not be allowed to p ·i. ck r:-1nd choose,~ Lh~~ plt.·\CHs in which they provide the service, <.HlY rnor·e,~ Lhan i · ·.h:~ l:nlr~phone company or the hydro company should br~ r:-ll.l.ot1JOd Lo c:onf · i.n~,~ l·.hnir· activities to the more densely populaU>d corrtrrtuni.L ·i(=•s ·in o•n· Pt"OV::i I'IC~:!. In fac:l : , Mt·. Spoai<Hr', c:onsi.dt:!r· ·i.ng th~=! t"emot(HIE:~!;s of a Jar·ge numbE!r' of 1\Jr:!hJfouncll.r'll'ld OtiLpor•l: comrrrurd t.:i es, 'inc] ucl'.i ng T:lzzard 1 s H r:~ r b 0 u t' I ·i. L I, s 0 b v J

l) II s ' M r· . SpE:~ai<E:H', that these are UtE! p] aces where good television service is pr·obably .morE! badl.y needed than in th1~ mor·e 1.1 rba n, de-?. n s ely populated ar·eas. PeoplE! in those small communities have less opportunity to avail of other entertainment and sources oF recreation. For that that rc,~ason there -i.l:. SE!(~mS should i·.o be me a responsibility placed on these companies when they are given a licence because a licence l:o operate cablevision in the Pr·ovJnc:n can· .. i . r~s ~~Ji.l ·.h t ·l·. r:l gr·(~r:-ll: ci(~al of r·espons:i bi 1 i ty. MR. SPFAI<FR: Or·der·, pl.!'!dSr,~! MR. w.

CAr~TF. R: T c: on c l1 1 d c-~ , M r· . ~; p e H !< n r· , by :; d y i. n g i. ht~'l.. thn l:ic~ : !nc~~ to opE:~r·at(~ C iH' t' ·i. H S IAJ:i. J: h "i [: ~; 0 Ill::! r(:~spons:i b:i.J j ty. TherE?.for·e, in t: h 'i. s c r'l s c-~ T b f~ l. ·i, n lJ f~ 1·: h a 1·:. 1':. h r~ y h <:·\ lJ (·:! a responsibility to provide the SC'!rV 'i.e(~ to T i.z.zard 1 s Har·bout" l:.hr~y have provided to other maybe a l.:i.tl:'.l.E:~ 111orc-?. dens(~l.y populated communities in that part of our Pr·ov"i.nce . 1.1739 Vol. XI . Mr. Speaker, I takE! pleasurE! in p r· c-?. s e,~ n t. 'i n g 1:. h ·i. s p c.;! t t t.

"L o n , S :i r . I ask that it be referred to the de p rH' ·1:: HH~ n t a 1'1 d 1·: 0 1:: h C-?. lfl'i . 1'1 :i S l:c;! r· 1:. 0 which it relates. MR. GULLAGE: M t' . s p c,~ a I(("! r . ~~R. SPF.AKER: The hon. the rnE~rnbc,H' for· Watc"!t"for'd .. i<l~l'llfl!)lll'll:' MR. GUL. LAGE: Mr· . s p f~ ,:-l!u! r· , i. 1: sri.lH~ s mc-:! g n~ c\'1:. pleasure to Stlppor·t: thE! p(~t:. iUon by tny good fr'·i.cHld, I ·.: I·H~ HH:!l'III:H=!t' For· Twillingate (Mr. W.

Carter), concr,H'rl'i.ng l·:.h-Ls 1110s l: "i.mpOI"t.ctni:: matter of providing, I suppose, th('! f"i.n<'ll cornrnun ·i.car . 'i.ons l ·i.nk for· thesE! pE!op1e in that t:hE!Y do not have access to cable telev i sion, as, indeed, rnost ar·eas of l':I1E! Pr·ov'i.ncc-?. do.

Whc::!n 1..11e S(:!~~ thr'lt Morton 1 ~; Har•bour, Valley Pond and Bridgeport, adj o·i.rdng collltnl.ltl'i. t"i.es, have.:. ~.H:!C' !n given cable serviCE!, it seerns s t r· G\1'1 g (:~ t h ;:~ t T:i..l zr:·l r d 1 s H a r· b o u r , just because it has a smaller popul.ai :: J.on, ~.hr:l·l : th"i.s should be used as a basis for dE!ny'ing thern '~Jhi'lt·. pos~;tbl.y sho1 /l. cl bn cons ·ider·r=!d a right in th:i.s di:\Y and age,~, and U1d 1: ·i.s, good corrnnuni .ct::tLi.on!; c:·Hld access to a serv:ice that, JndE:!ed, i:ll.l

C) r 1: h c-:! ; r' n 0 ·i g h b () r· ~; h d l) (! . I r·ai:.E!d the,~ po:int., d 1.1 t' ·i. n g '1: h n F !; 1: i. rrkl I:!=! s the-:~ mandatE:~ of t:hE! Min. SpE!c~ke,H', dl~b"' t:o, dbou t. DE!par·t.rrtE!nt. oF Cl)l'lSIItnc;!r' AfFd ·. i.r·s r::tncl Commun:i.cat.jons and IAJhether, :in fr:·\ct, 1-:.hE~Y should bo clo<.·ll.·i.ng, on a more precise basis, with the pr·ob l.1·:!m!l of c ormnu n .. i. Ci:\ t.'i on s throughout the Island in matters where federal jurisdict"i.on, the CRTC, does not apply. I wouJd l."i.k~:! 1-:o suggE~st l:hr:tl~ per·haps t.h:i.s particular community is an area No. 33 R1739

t.uhc-=!r·e t·he Cornrnurd cations l":h:!pi:\l""l-.lflf~ni·. shc)lll,d f"OCI.IS ~>OlfiC:' ~lter1tion ar1d deal with the matter of c,~ x l-. f'! n d ·"L n g l: h ·i. ~; 1; i l:: r:1 l. s 1-~ r· 1; 'i. c l'! o F cable televJs:ion to Lhe one collunun:i.t.y i:hat: l'lr:lS I:H~Hn l1·d:-t 0111 ·:. , IAih ~~ n, '.i. n fa c: t: , c'l. J 1 of their· neighbors haue been included. SoT would l. ·i. l<o to cornmc;!nd HIY colleague, the member For TIAti.l.l.'i ngdl Le, For· h"i. s in "i.l·: i.d 1-: 'i. Vf~ -Ln br·ing:ing this pE!tition fortAiard, and T would hope, Mr.

Speaker, that the Department of Cornrnun·i.cal:""i.ons. in piu·t.i cul ar·. r:Hld the government would give prompt at I:E:Hlt:i.on to 1:-.hc,~ pE! f:."i l:i.on and sE:H'! that Uris vital serviCE! is, in fc:·\C: t. E.~xtc:Hld!~d r.o l:hc,1 pc-=!opl.l-~ of the community of Tizzard's Harbour. ~R. YOIJI\JG: Mr·. Sp~~clbH'. MR. SPF.AKf.l(: Thc"l hon. the M:in:ist~H' of ConsumE!Y' nrr.:~ir·s r:HH:I COIIlllllll'l -i.cdl:.ions. MR. YOUNG : Mr·. ~fH:~al<c,H', I r'I.Sl~ l:o suppor·t: l:hf:~ peti-l:ion presenb~d by the han. HH~1ntHH' For· Tl~ri.l.l."i.ngr:li:f:~. I WHil .d menUon to you, Mr·.

SpeakE!r, that our dep()H'l:rn~Hll": has I~Jor·ked c:l.ose:~l.y with the cable industry in pr·ov-Ld-i.ng ser·vi.c:es, Mr·. Spt::~al<er·. To date the cable indu~try has a c ~l"i.ev c.:.d approxo:i.rna l:.e 1. y 80 pc.:.r· c fHJ·I:. participation, the highest in Canada. Mr·. ~FH:~a k <-H'. wi. thou t government financial assistance. A repor·t, Mr. Sp<,~al<~=!r', has bc;!en commiss:ioned by the federal Dc,~par·trn~=!n'l-. of Cormnurl'i. cr:\f.:i.ons and IAIE! are IJ.tai ting for that rE!port t:o b~~ sl-.ud"i.~~d. T may Sr'\)1, Mr·.

SpeakE!r. thE! industry j n th:i s P l" o 1; "i. n c c,~ i. s i. n d p o s .i. 1·. i o n 1-. o r· e s p o n d t o r..l n y p r· o g r· a rmn e ·L o a s s :i s t: lAri. 1-. h I·Jw l~ X 1-.fHl S i. 0 1'1 0 f ~; fH' IJ:i. C c,~ S . l h a v c,~ I:HHHI 1:. o J d - I d o no t: k n otJ.l ·- I. l 7 ll.() Mr:•\ Y l () 1 '1.9 13 8 lJol XL that :it not E:~conomi caJ to ·i. n !) l:rfll.l. c .:·\ b 1. r-:! t·. c,, l f~ 1; 'i. s "i. o n · i. n communities with Jess than f:ifLy f;fllflll ' t!O!~;.

Th·i.s i~; lAthy '"'e l'ldVE! been in touch with the federal D ~~ p"' r· I~ rn~~ n 1 ... try and oF Comlnun · i.c;.~l:-."i.ons l··.o get some Federal a~;s"i.s 1 ... anc:c~ l:o hr,1l.p l:hc,~ cc.,,bJ.e companies t:~~l.t::wi. s i.on communities. to install cable l n 1·: h c~ s ~~ s ma 1.1 E! r· I ·wholeheartedly support the pet.l.t ·ion, Mr·. Sp~~akE!t', and one<:' ·it COmE!S to my desk at thE! dE:~ par· l::tnf~ n t., T '"'·i.l.l. IAIY' it: c.:. t: h c.:. cab l. E! television company N·-1. I think l:.hE!Y'~~ IAIC\5 SOITIA cor·r·espondC·HlCf'!

I signed today to thc~t cab] E! t.f~ l o v i. s .i. o n c o rn p a n y • 1\J -- l. I support the petition, Mr. Speaker. ~OMf HOI\1. MFMAFRS: HE:~iH'. hE!ar! Orders of the Day MR. SIMMS: Mr. f>p•~,:~k~-:H', IMf~ ''r"i.lJ. cont:-i.rHH! '"'·.:i.l::h Or·der 3. the concurrencE! motion on 1: h e R r,1 s o 1.11" c: r,~ C 0 Htrfl 'i. 1·: I~ E! f~ • MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Nas kaup:i adjourned debate. The hon. Hw has two minutes left . SOME HON. MEMBERS: H c"~ a r , h e a r· ! MR. KELLAND: Thank you. Mr. Spc,~akc;!r .

Tf I c•:-\n qui. c k l. y 111a I<(·:~ a r·l;! f ~:! r·o nc E! to somethi.ng IAJhich rE!latE!S to thE! Rf'!SOIH'Cf~ l:.s l".:t.rna l ... c,~s, and :r d i.d no 1:. h a v e a n o p p o r t u n :i t y t o s a y IAl h E! n I r· c~ s p o rH:I f~ d to UH~ rn i n i. s h:! r·· ' s statement a bit earlier. I am R :1. '74-0

very interested in mapping, par·t. "i. c ular·l. y rnapp ·i ng l:.ha t J s of ~~ promotional nature for our Provi.nce. For· I:: he rnos 1:. par·t, Mr. Sp~'aker, most provincial maps show mainly the Island of Newfoundland, IAr.i Lh thE! rE!gion of Labrador as a small. inset.

T wish, somewhere along the line, we could produce pr·ov i.nc i.,,,J. rnHps Uli'll ·: tAJoul.d s hoiAJ our en+. :ir·~1 Pr·ovince Jn .i.t:s total pnr' ! >fH~ci :·i , tH~. :t tAJr:Hlh~d l:o mako that colnrnE-1nt, becaus<~ it. does g:iv<-:l d f,:~l.Sf~ '.i.mpr'HSs"i.on l:o l·.l'lo~;,~ pr:!opl.r ·:! fr·orn outs :idE:1 our country who mi'..IY tAr:i. s h I: o v i. ~,.;, 1·: , o n l. y I: o f ·i. n d I: h r:l 1: '.'i 1'1!\b:1ad of a small. port.:Lon of our Pr·nt; .i.nce, l .. i:·lbr·. :lclor i.s, i.ndor,1d, qu'.'ite a large part, probably bc,1tl· : ~~r· l::hdn '1-.wo i·. h :i.r·ds, and T th-:ink :it should b~1 rE!flE!CtE!d as such.

I woul.d also like to suggest to hon. me1nb~H'S LhH 1·: noiAJ t.hd't l : h~~ minister has taken the time to respond to our request ~o have packages made auail~ble that we I~ a I< e t h e 1:. t rn <-:! t o g o 1:: h r· o u g h 1: h em , each of us, from both sides of the House, and look for quality, omissions, and whatever, any points t:hat comH i·:o nri.nd, r:1nd takE~ the time to offer constructive c r· ·l t: ·i. c i. s 1r1 t o 1:: h f~ m i n ·i. s 1 ... ~~ I" s o I: h a ·1-. future publications may be improved for ~he good of us ~ 1 1.. Thf~ onl.y oth~H' r:omrnNJI ·: H1al~ I hi.·ltH ~ Jn wrapping up, Mr .

SpeakE!r, is 1-:hdl: T st.lppor··l: dll Lhf'! r:ornHH:!nl·.s, I guE:1ss, on th:i.s subje c-l: by my collr·~aguP for· For·l·:unc,~ Hr:!r·rn:i.l:r:-lgr;! 1~1ho quest ·..-i oned l he procPdtH'~~s, thE:~ p r· o c f~ s ~' of l': h H r. s 1·: i. tt~r:-l'l~ e s Cornnd.ll~:!eS, and I i'~l.Juded to ::i.t: lfiYSf~l.f tAJhen T spoke~ 'Jf:H;Ler·ddy . t t.u<wJd J-:ilo~ to S<:1E:1 someonE! Jn Lhe Cha'i.r· t~Jho "i. s noL '~' d 'i.l"(~CL III(HIIbE!t' of the administration, a par·l. i.dlrl~~nt.ar·y assJst .anl:, b~~cau~; ~ ~ no matter what the government sjde s a y s , a n 'l n d ·oi. v "i. d u a l .i. n 1.: h a 1:.

Ll74-l May 10, 1988 Vol XL category does have a vested "inter·est -Ln al::t:empt.-J.ng l~o make l:.he government appear in a good light. Some of the statE!ments offE!rE!d by the Chairman of the Resource Estimates Comrnjttee were, to say UH~ l. ~~ r:1 s t , no 1: 1:: I·H~ Wi:"' y 1:: h (,1 r· c;! s t. or= the Committee remembered the pr·oc;~:!r;!d:i.ngs .

I tAJOt.lld J. i.l<~ ' ! l:o 1m~kc;! thE! point, and that.: IAJE! do giVE! clUE! r: on s i. d c,1 r·"' ·i·: ·i. o n ·I: o I: h ,:-, 1:: o n f u t: u I" E! occasions when Estimates Comrrri. i".i : r·H:1~; r:H'H sl·.:r•uck, i".hr:'d: IAJE! have a duty to perform, WE! haV E! cl d 1.1 L 'J 1: o q ur·~ s 1: t on r'tll cl ~; E'! e k :informcltJ.on from the m:irl:'ist:E!rs Jn l:hr:1 Fs 'l: i.illi.·lh ~ ~ ; Corruni.Li ·. ef~s. ;:·lnd i·: h e y have a duty to respond and prov:i.de Lhr,, "i. nfot'Hli!ll' ::i.on i'.

r) u ~; t'' s Opposi tton rn~::1mbers, and to th E• g(·HHH'dl . publ'i.c, IAJhom IAH~ r·opr·c;!S~Hli":. B u t e q u ally t r u e , me rn b E! r· s o f t: IH! Co mnri. 1: ~'! ~'! , tAJ l·w n 1:. h f~ y s p c,H't k 'i. n cl c o n c u r r e n c e debate , p a r U. c u 1 a r J. y tho Cha'i.r·mi'ln and l:hE! Vice-Chairman, haVE! the obligation and Lhe responsibil i ty to rep~rt and comrnent accurately on thE! pr·oceed ·i.ngs .

I th'i.nk we havE~ an exampJ.e of that and hOIAI it can go as l::r' i:ly and hotAJ a Cha'ir'ITian can possibly abuse his position as a Cha:i.r'Hit:Hl by us ·i.ng lri.s vested interE!St for the good of thE! go v c,n· n HHHl ~~ . T lvu1 k y o u , M r· . Speaker. SOME HON. MEMRERS: H n d r· , h f'! d r· ! MR. SPF.AKF::R: The hon . thE! M:in:istE!Y' of 1\lorl::hE!r ·n D :~ t; r,1 l. o pHJr ~ n 1-. • MR. WARREN: M r . S pea k e r , I thou g h t I IAIO u J. d 1.: a k f'! d F HIAJ lfl"i. n 1.1 1·:. (~ s 1".: () s r~l y a F E~IAJ words tn this ConcurrencE ! DE!br::ttE!.

Tn par·~:"i.cul.!::tr·, :r n1n honouJ"(:!d l·.:o b<;! able to follow the member for Naskaupi., IAJho, T IAJoul.d say, has No. 3 3 R174-1

conl·:r·i.bul·.~~d quil~c.~ 1'1. b"i.l: 1-.o t.his hon. House in the last ttJ.Io and a h r.\ 1. f y 1,1 iH' s . T a rn s 1.1 r· c.~ 1". h .:·l 1: o'\ s long as he~ :is her·e, he Llrill haVE:l l:he consl:i.l :tHHli:S of Ndskr~up-i. close:, a.t hE:1art . M r· . ~3 p e a k e r· , I lA I a s s IH' p d s E! d i n l::h~~ Fs l:.-Ltna · l -. c.~s Conun"i.l·:i~c.~o Lha 1... only three questj on!>, I think, IAiere dSkf~d r:\bOtll:: l'lly pru• ·I·:J.cUJ.iH' depar·trnE:Hll by the:1 hon. mE!Inber.

In 1. o o k i n g a t o u r b u d g 1:! l: , h ~~ fa J l. c-?. d to mention one very, very, ·i tn p or· tan 1-: d e c 'i. s i. o n 1: hat go v 8 r· n rn c:! n t. made, the cut of roughly $130,000 in ai.r· t.ransport .at·i.on for i::h~::1 staff in Labrador. When I becamf~ M·i.nister· of +:hH Departme,nt, the first thing I noticed was that our travel. throughout Labrador was quite extensive and expens-Lue at the same time.

Subsequently, gOV(!Y'rHrH~nl-. dc.~c:i.dr.:!d l ·. hr:~t 1-.r'r:-\Vl'!l. by govermnent employees Jn Labrador lliOtll.d bf:l co --ord"i.nr:\l:od · l:o · l:hc~ f,:,ct: Unilt om1 or· tiAJO depar ·t.ments 1.~riJ.J. b ~~ a b l. c,l 1 ... o 1:. r• iHH~ 1. on 1: I·H~ s i:\ tflf~ r:l:i.r'CJ"aft. Mr. Speaker, when we talk about r· e s o 1.11" c: f~ s , '[ h d IJ C! i":

c) c o rn p l. i. HHHI 1'. lhe Minister of Fisheries on a v fH' y bold i. n i_ L i <:·\ 1·. 'i. IH~ , r:-l r· e.:~ "1.1. y bold jnJt:Jat'ive of this yc~ar, for the f -i. r· s 1: 1-: i . IJJ(~ ~~ v c;, r , 1. (~ 1: 'l::i. n g t h c~ f'ish pJ.ants in Makkovik, Postville and Hopedale be operated and controlled by the peopJ.e l:.hc,HnsE?.l.v~~s. U: JM<:\s a major· initiative by this government to 1 e t. To r n 9 at. F 'i. s her '.'i. H s ope r· .:1 1-: e d n d manage the fish plants in those thr·eE:l cornmrnun:i.t.-i,(,1S wh"i.ch, I rrri.ght. add, is thE! first timE!

E!VE!r that gover·nrn(;,nt has dec:id(~d to 1:· . .:\ke such a bold initiative, and I am confi.d(~nt l .: l·1;~t. Wi.ll.-i.arn Fl.owc,lr's and hjs Roard of Directors of this C 0 ·-· 0 p IAJi. 11. h H V ~~ d S 1.1 C: 1: r,~ S S f 1.11. y 0 iH' . 1.1. '/IJ./. M•:·\ y lO I 1.91! B lJol. XI . Mr·. Spnr.,\klH', .i. n I:". he~ Fs 1·:-i.rnt.·\+".e s Commi t ·l:ee the $100,000 for the Mokarrri. Pr·ojoc:l : Cr·oup 1~1as also mentioned. I th:i nk, Mr. Speaker·, t~ri.l:h i•\1.1 dtJ::! l"f~spc~c:l: l:: o my t1~10 colleagues, the members for St. J

l) h n I !) F .:-\ s 1. r:\ n d M (;! 1'1 (;! h ·i. k I IAH~ s h 0 u 1. cl rE:1aliZE:1 thi-lt lhe:1re <.H'E! social and e c o n o rn "i. c g r:1 "i. n s i. n i.·l n y p r· o j (;! c 1:: 1:. h d 1:: :is undertaken. I am quitE! pleaSE!d IAJ:it:h thE! r'(~so·l.ul·.J.on l·:hal:. lAid!; pr:1ssod :-i.n !.:his hon. House to form a cornrnitl:E!E! t h a 1:: 1A1 '.i. J. J. C: 0 HIp r•. i. S (~ I'll<-:! Ill b (H' S 0 f b 0 t. h the official Opposition and gover·nrn(Hlt. Now, I, myself, see nothing wrong w'i.th "i.nvoi.ting a HIC:llllb(;,r· of l::hr:' lowly NDP to bE! a mE,mber of thc1t c:ornmill-:ee.

Personally, ! see not hi n g 1.11r on g uli t h that , be c i-l usE! I believe l:ha~ ~hen Lhe hon. !::he rnernbE!r for St. John 1 s 1.~1ould have t.hl·~ oppor't-.un·i. ·l·.y l·.o g~:,l·. oul·:s · i.d~:' l.·.h('! overpass . He talks about . issUE!S :in Labrador, bul·. t~1h1·:!n :r ·i·.dl.!<l=!d l:o h·i.trJ ~hf~ ol:h~:'r' drlY, before I had an opportun:-i t:.y l:o sp~~i.·lk, T lt~ r:-lr'nod hc,l hds n~~vc-?.r been jn Labrador. So, jf IAJe can 91~1: l·d111 On l".h~H'P l·:o dl·:hHld E!V(Hl one of OIJr proposed m~:,et::ings, thE! hon. gc.~nl~1 . ~~tndn rnr:1y h;:·\IJe a chance to cornE! to Labrador.

I arn suJn( ;! that ~he only th-i.ng he knows about Labrador is what. he rE:lads in the nl-:'!IAJSf>dp(~r·s, or• IAJhat: h<cl h~:!<.'lr'S fr'Oirl somE! of those- MR. LONG: (Inaud"i.b1e). MR. WARREN : Mr. Speaker, I think the old sayi . ng i . s, you b(~l."i.(,1 Vf'! half you hear and all you SE!B, or nonE! you h f~ i:•l r• i::\ n d h r:'tl f lj () I.J S ~=! 0 I S ()Ill(:! t h 'i. n g l:ike that. But., I tJ.JouJ.d say to 1-.h~~ hon. gfHJi·:l.f~HiiHI for· St.:. John 1 s East, I think he has to reaJ.ize 1\Jo. 11 Rl.'ll~?.

that there are social and economic fa c 1:: o r· s i. n a n 1J t. h i. n g U1 at i. s do n 8 , and government i.s addr·essi.ng the social element as well as the economic E:1] ement in promoting thE! NATO base i.n Goose Bay. Thc-:1 NATO bas(-:'!, j n Goose Bay, 1Ari1 1 have a positivs effect on practically ever·y single human being living j n thcl t arc,1d. M r· .

S p f~ a bH' , l·: h i. '> y ~;! r.-n· , r:-~1 s o F o t' the first tirne, the Combined Counc·i .l.s of 1..;:\bt·,:·\dor· h;:wH r·,.;!c:dv'·~d fund:ing lo clss'.ist. them IAI'.ith thei.l" i'l d m 'i. n i. s L r' ;:\ 1". ·i. o n c o s 1·. ~; , r:1 9 d i. n I: h ;:·\ n k s io · th~~ de:1par'l:rnE:Hl'L that I am r· ~~ s pons 1. b l. ~~ for . Mt·. SfH~.:-\kiH', hous :i.ng: TI·H;!r'r,1 · i.~; $?,0S6,000 in rny depar·trnent which IAri.l.l. b o s p ~;! n 1: on 1: h o cons 1 ... r· u c l'. i. on of hous:i ng in nat:i ve:1 comi'IIIJni t:i.es dl.ong l:hn Nor·l".h Coasl". of I EAbrctdor.

There :i.s a nNu government store, in Facl"., tho last onc,1 of its kind to be built o n l: h r,1 l.i:~ b r· a tl o r· Co a s t , t o b t1 constructed in Hopedale this year al.: a cost: of approx'i.rnal:ely $1 million. Mr. Speaker, when this s t.o re ·is c omp J.e t : ~~d, gov c-:1 rnrne:HJt wilJ have fi.ve brand-new, spanki.ng·-·new gover·nrnent s ton,1s 1.u~dch are equally as good as Sobey 1 s or Domini.on or the Gc,1neral, or somE! ot.her stores in St. John 1 s, but on i'l Slfli.'lll.er· sca]e, in those smaller c orrurH.I n :i. t. :i.e s . Fur· U·w t'lfiO t' H , Mr· .

S p f;! ;:·\ k IH' , J 1~10 11l. d like to ~del that government has l.oob=!d tH,H'IJ Fr:-lVOIH''~lbl . y on .Tor·ng,\1: F :i. s h ~~ r· i ~~ s , lA I h :i c h :i s o p E>. r a t ~~ t. h c,1 Fi.sh pli:'lnl· :~; i·\l: Mr:·\kkov·ik, Po~;i·.1ri.Jl . 1~ 01nd llop~~d<d ~:!. I have Si.~.:id Lo s~wE:1raJ gr·oups :in l. r.\ b r• d cl 0 r• , S h OIAJ II~) i:\

l) t'! t' lj dpp8tizing proposal, show us a p r· o p o s ,;, 1. t h ;;t 1'. IAil;! c r:-1 n l i. v f'! 1~ri. 1: h and you c;:.~n 1 iVE! 1.uith, and I think the Ma 1J l 0, 1. 9 8 8 Vol. XL time j s corning 1.uhe!n we can s c-:1 r· -i. o IJ s l y J. o o k d t t: h "! p c-:1 o p 1. e themse!lves forming a co-operatiVE!, or· an associat"i.on, or· a Labr·ador· Inuit Development Corporati.on, or a Nclskaupi/Montagnais Development Corporation to operate and run l:. hf;!!>r:! s l~or'c-:ls.

T hr:·lVf'! ali}.Jr:~ys sa'icl and will always mclintain, that IAJ h f;! n d f '" c :i. l i. t: y i. s b r· o u 9 h 1·: u p t o standard, IJJhen a fac:il H:y is f:i t l·. o I:H~ t' u n p r· o FHH' l. y , !~I i. "1".: h o u t c,1 x 1:: r· a burcten, I would l:i kE! to spec:ify I.1Ji.l·.ho11l': HX i".i"i:\ bl.lt'clHI'l 1':0 l::ht'! taxpayers of the Province, I am s 1.1 r·n golJ er·nrnc! n l'". I~J"i.ll. 1 uo k fauour·abJ y to1.~1ar·d!> lur·ni ng over· or IT r:\1'1 s f ('! r· t' ·i.ll g 1: hI;! g () lJ l'lr' I'Hflf:! n t. OI~JrH;! cl stores to the peop]e themselves. MR.

KELLAND: lillould l:h:~ hon. lnr~tni:HH' fHH'tn-i.l"'. a question? MR. WARREN: M r· . !':) fH~ r.1 k e r· , a s l. o n g ij\ s -u: cl o E! s not come out of rny time. MR. KELLAND: Jusl: a fe1.u· s~~conds. T.n that last point, are you also looking at· not l:hE:1 dE~V<·:1loprn~~nt associ.a·l:.i.ons and so on, but are you also looking at thH potent ·i.al. pr·oposal. fr·om, say, the private entrepreneur sector? T do not kno1~1 ·i.f you said thr::1l:: or· not. MR. WARREN : Mr·. hon.

S ~H~ <'\ kfH' , TTIE!mber· 1 s ·i n I" <·~ s p o n s ('' quest:ion, t·.h (;! [·:hE! pI" "i. lJ ;:·1 [·: :;! r~ 1'1 1·: t• <;! pI"('! 1'1 n I II" ~; f'! C '1: 01'' i. S from the district of Torngat Mo11n l .... ~·1 · i . ns, yw;. llu L, Mr·. ~3FH~dkOJ", I will not accept, I w:i.Jl not 1: on!; 'i. do r' , T IAJ:i.ll. no L l. o o k '~' 1". 1:: h C:' M.A. Powel 1 1 :,, or thE! Hudson Bay C Otnflt:Hl ·i. 1:1 s , or· 1·: h c:! b "i. g conglomerates from outs'.ide going ·i.nl:o J · -.1-H~ d ·i.sl:r· ·i.cl·: of Tor·ngal ... Mountains and operating their s l".or·c·;!s. No . 33 R1'743

Nmu, Mr. Speaker, Jet me just COrl~:i.l'lU(c~. [ hi;t\)C~ i:O l··.i:lkc~ ex c:t~pt:i on to LhEl hon. g~>.ntleman for· Naskr.l1.1pi., bHc:;;,usc,~ h1~ 111.:-lcil~ r:~ liltle d:ig at my colleague for BHl.l.r~\)110. HI~ s~i. cl hH dO!c1S 1"11)1: usually altack :individuals. Mr .

SpHi:1!<1~r·, on i:ho dr•1y i.n <:jllf~!; 1: i.on, l41hen the hon . gE!ntleman dc~c:idr:1d t.o joi.n l:l·li .!; p<:ll"l:y, T r·~:!lrH>.HII:H,H' l:'i.stNdng to VOCM, Open Line, and l:l-11->. only HH:11nbor· o l:hHr' i':l'ldl'l l:ho newly elected member from Wc1 i·:E>.rford · Komnoun 1·., IAiho 1~1as no 1·: eJected at that ·l:ime and 11.1as IAI i 1:. hi. n h i. !) r• ·j_ 9 h I~ S t 0 S d y lA I h r'l ~ -. h f>. had to say, he was a guest on Open Line, bul: the only Hletnbc,1 r from this House who appeared on Open Line a~ that t"i.mE>. !Alas l: hc,1 member for Nas kaupj t>Jho viciously atl:.acked the~ mernber• for Bell .ovuc>..

AI\J l-ION. MF.MB E R: Th~H'E:1 11.1ere two . MR. WARRFN : Maybe there were l:wo . B u 1: , M r· . S p c>. a k r,1 r , "i. 1-. IJJd s 1·: h o ruember for Naskaup:i IAiho viciously a 1-. I: d c k ~~ d 1·. h (~ liiC:! I rib r>. r· F!) r· n 0 l.l. 0

I) II 0 . Noto~.J, Mr·. Speal<c~r·, IAJhether· you b r,1 1. "i. c,w o i. 1·: o r· n o l. , h 1>. i>Hl g H l: 1 1 p and say out of orw s-.:idE:1 of his 1110111-.h he,~ doc:!S nol·. do i. l:, r:-1nd 011l·. of the-:! other· side~ of h:i.s rnouth dl.lifli.l : l::hi:ll: he:! dons do i. 1:. Mr·. Speai<EH', I have l.o take except :ion l:o lol-w ho n. g (~ n 1-.l. lc1Hii:-Hl, 'i. n H~t:·d : ho did rnake a vicious attack on l::he 1rH:nnb ~H' for' R H l.l. <~vue . Mr·. SpE:~c:ti<E:~r, l:. h~>.r'<,~ ""i.s on~>. o · l~. hr"1r• thing I IAJouJd ltke to bring to the aU·.enti.on of hon. member·s of Ul"i.s House.

The other tiAJO members for Labr·ador IAJani-:E!d ·to ask q1H:1sti.ons, and they thought they had somHth:i .ng go:i.ng For· l : hc~HI, on the caribou hunt in Labrador this y e <H' . I n fa c 1: , M r· .

S p <-:~a k (H' , 1:1 Ll7lPI· May 1.0, 1988 Vol XL question was about to be put about r:1 n r;l X 1··. r~ tl S i. 0 11 1-. 0 1·. h ~>. h 1.1 l"l t. f 0 r• 1·: h H George•s R-:iver car·ibou herd, and, l:o l·_,,,kc~ l:hc,1 ~~ri.nd out·: of 1-.i'l(!i.r' scdls, there IA.Jas a spedal fTI(~Elting h c,1 l. d 1~1 "i. 1·. h rn y c: o 1. l. c~ d g 1.1 c~ s f o u r ;:;, n d r:\ half days l:>eforE:~ LhE! hunt wa~> Sllpposc;!d i:o {·'!i"ld, r'lnd ·i 1-: I•JdS decided at that tJme that we !Aiould f~x1·. Hnd 1--.hr,~ hc1nl:: for· ;;~n r~xl".:r·a four· and a half days.

That decision ~~li:IS rnddf~ on -l:hH !;;:wiP dr:·\Y, I·.: he twenty-eighth, that the hunt was supposf:!d l·.o ~>.nd. AI·: i:".hr:1l-:. ti.lnE!, the commercial caribou hunt had accounl·: r,~d For· ~' t:otal. of 590 animals, and within the I1E!Xt four and a hal F day s Uw y i":H' r· J v cH1 t:1 1:. a grand to.tal of 1,510. So you can Sf~e how f,,,vour<:~blf>. and hot~l conscientious this government is 1-:. o U1 C:! IAII:<I. 'l I:H"~ :i. n g of t h (;! n i;1 1:. :i. v e people of Labrador.

We tAlent out of our way on 1-.:he last day of that season to extend the hunt for i:ll'lOl:ht:!f' rOI .IY' and i'1 ha"l.f clays and, subsequently, they were fortunate E!nough t-:o k·i.ll. an E!XI::r·r:~ 9~)0 animals. So that just shOJAIS, M1~. S p f~ d !< c;! r• , ·1: h f~ con c ~~ r· n 1.: h a 1·: gov E!r·nrnE! n t has for -L h.e Nat j v E! p 1>. o pl.:~ ·i. n I . ,~, b r· r.1 do r· . Mr~. KFLLAND : A p o 'i. n t o f o r· d fH' , M r· . ~) fH'! ,'\ kfH' . r'IR. SPF.AI<F.R: Order, please! A po:-i nt of order, thE! hon. the rnernbor· For· N,;,s kd1.1p:i..

MR_. _ _KELLAN..Q: I would just like to rnclke a clarif·i.cat"i.on here. MR. SPEAKER : Order, please! A point of clarjfication is - MR. KELLAND: A po"i.nt of order . No. 3 3 R 1.7 44-

MR. SPF.:AKFR: All right. I IAlil 1 1 i sten to the p 0 'L 1'1 t. 0 f 0 t' d fH' . MR. KELLAND : A point of or·der in IAlhich I hope to clarify some statements. MR. SPEAKER: Or·der, please! I will . listen to a point of order. MR. I<FI.LANO: My polnl: of or·r:lc:!r' M:i n:i st~H' R(-=!spon~>:i bJ e f)~~ V e 1. 0 pHI(! rl 1: i S particular items I.(' ·" for I·: h r·1 t. 1.: h t-:! Northern m·i.x"i.ng r·eJ at~~d I:IA)(l to C d r• 'i. b () 1,1 IAI h i. C fl dr'o o n 1: ·i. r· o l y d:i ff~~r~~n'l.. Ml~. ~:lPF(.)I<FR : 0 r· d <H' , p l. n ;.:t ~;r,~ ! T hat: ·i.s nol·. ,.., po.i. nl·. oF or·dl:!t' . MR.

FUREY: How do you know, Mr. Speaker . MR. KF.LI..AND: Mr. Speaker, IAlould you allow me to finish and then judge? MR. SPEAKER: The han. +:h,,1 M·i. ni. s t:(-'!r' rt:1 s pons J b l. e for Northern Development. MR. WARREN: Mr. Spt:1akE!r, 1 would jus.t like to say, although T only hr,1VE! tiAJO or· thre~1 minutes ]eft, I was kind E~nough t··.o ~HH'In-i.t-. i":h<~ hon. gE:Hd:lE~rnan l:o pos(-'! a qtH~sl·:.ion IMhich J iHlSW(H'I~d t;t;!r·y fat;our·;:~bl.y .

I would just J:ike to say to the han. g EHl 1·.1. (·~lfli:'Hl ' ,.,, s 1 () n g .:-1 s T (·11ft cHI E~]EH:tE~d ffiE!rttb~H' of th:is Assembly, ''Jhi.ch, T. r:dn fot'HSBI~, I)J·i.l.l. bt~ For· f.l. J ong, Jong t.J.rn,,~ to corne, :r IAr.i.l 1 r:onl:i.nuo l·.o dcldt•t'!SS t ·.h1~ conc1~rn~; 1wd the aspJr·at:ions of the pt:wpJ.e i. n 1.. ,,, b r· ado r' , fhH' I: "i. r: ul. a I" l. y ·i. n H11~ distrJcl of Torngat Mountains. 1.1. 7'l·S May 1.0, 1.988 Vol XI.. T should BdY ·i.n c:l.os:i.ng, Mr·. Speaker, I -do find jt ironic t:hat UtE!r~~ ·is "' trtovH afoo L on i::h('!

Opposl.tion benches, although I arn not. qui. h~ c~H·I·.: i:l'i.n of th 'i. s, and !:: he han. rTIE!rnber for Nas kaupi and th~~ l.~~':"dor of the Oppos:Lt. -i.on mr't:1 quJ.te aware that posters have aJ.ready been printed in the narne of an individual, Danny Demarais. The poster does not say anything about a nomination, it says, 'Elect [) ;:HHfy

I) e Tlli'H' a :i. S ·Uw HH:1 tn b ~H' f 0 r EaglE! River.' I alrE!ady saiAl thE• pos l:EH' . Thf~ pos LHt' -Ls al.r·E~ddy done up, a b:ig picture of Danny I) <·'!lit a r· <:·1 'i. s , ' E l. f~ c i·: f) ,:., n n y D <·Hrt i.H' i~n . s the member for Eagle RJuer.' NotAl, Mr·. Speaker, I haVE! bE:!E:Hl Lol d l:h;" i· 1-.hn tnc:!trtbnr· fo1" N.:-1~; kaup -L <:H1cl the Leader of Ute OpposJ tj on ha'H' s l : clt'i:f~d '" 9drtll,1 . l'i'H~Y di"B no L contE!rtl:E!d, thc"!Y ar·e not sr.lt:.i.sfi(,'ci ·-· MR. SPF.AKER : Or·ciEH', pl.~~HSt-'!! The han. member's time has elapsed. MR. WARREN: Ry leave-?.? SOME HON.

MEMBERS: No 1Havc,1. MR. SPEAKER: 0 r· d e t' , p l. e a s e ! Ts th(;! Hout;l-'l question? The 1·: h ~~ r· c,~ p o r· l: l"(,'ddy question of · l:.hE~ for· UtE! is, shall R ~~ s o u r· c (;! Comrnitl .. ee be concurred in? On rnotJ .on, the rE!port of LhE! Rost)llt'c:'~ Conuwi. ·l: 1-.t-H'! ~~k1S c o n c 1.1 r· r· (,1 d :in. MR. SPEAKER: T 1·11;! h o n . Ut:~ P t' ,.~ ~d cl fH1 1·. of i:I'H;! Council. MR. SIMMS: No. :n Rl'/45

Mr. Speaker, l..lle will carry on now IJ.Ii.th l~he s;~me Or·der· 3. but-. I~JP IJJi.l.l. do the Social Services Estimates C o rrnrri. t. L EH~ . MR. SPF.:AKF.R: Social Services Fstimates C0111rn'i.l:h:!f~, 1-.I'H~ hon. 1-.hc,~ Pr·c·:!S 'i.c:lrHJI·: of tl1e Counc.i 1. MR. SIMMS: M r· . f3 p f~ d !< ''! t' , o n b ~~ h r:1l. f o f 1: l1 r~ rue rn b ~H' f o I" S t: . John 1 s Nor· ·t h ( M r· . J.

C;:u·tor·), 1~1ho 'i.s l·. hc~ chr:·dr•rn;.'ll'l of I. h:i s pCI.r·t:·i cuJ.ar cornrn:i l~tee and IAiho i. s u n a •J o i. d r:1 b l.y db s f'! n I: +: o d i':1 y r:·1 n d for· t. he r· E! s t of l: h :i s IAJ e e k , I h a v e g r· ~~ ~~ 1:: p 1. ~~ a s 1.1 r· t::~ i. n 'i. n t-: r o d u c oL ng l~ h c-~ concur·rence motion for the Social Se rv i. c e s Est. -i. rna 1:<'' s Cornuri. 1:: 1·: c,H,~ . Fi rsL of .all, on behalf of t.he Chairman, I would like to thank t.h~~ l'fll;!rnber·s of i::I'Ho1 Cormni.t.t:.oe IAiho performed their duties admirably, and HH~ y 1Ait::11'' e i:: h r,1 mE:11nbe r for· f3t .

John's North, as I said, as Chairman; l:.hr-:l member for· Port. dE:1 Grave (Mr. Efford) as V 'i. c e .. -cha i. r·mc:u1. IAihn T 1.1nd <H' s h·Hld djd a tremendous job and :is a g r• o d 1~. HI an; t: I·H~ 1nr~ mi:HH' For· A r-:l l.l. ~~ '' u r-~ (Mr. Callan) who is a]so a gr·eat 111a n ; 1:1-!f~ HH-Wib c-:! r· for· l.r:·1 Po 'i.l. ,,1 ( M r· . M"ttci·1E.~l 1) IAiho is also cl great man; and L:l·lf~ HIPlnbc,H' for· HurnbM' Wc~s 1·. (Mr·. Raj rd) who j s even a gr·eater lrli':Hl . SOMf HON. MFMRFR~: Hoar·, hear! 1'-1 R . S Jr.1t·1S : I I~JOI . il.d t:ll. ~ ; () Hlf:nnber· for H "i. s c: () c:

k) IAih 0 MR. BAIRD: i. n c l. u d (-?. 1·: h o p r· E~ s e n 1: fag]e River (Mr. i.s a gr·~~a+. man ·- And who IAJas there , MR. SIMMS : and the member for Fleming S'l: r·ee L - :i.s :i.t? ·- l:hf~ rnE:11nbc~r· for· I. 1 7'16 May 10, 1988 Vol XL St.. John 1 s Fast (Mr. Long) IAJho is r:~n · i - n'I--~H·~~sl: .. i.ng gE>.nt:l.<-:lman and a great man, no doubt, a great man. Anyway, those IAJere the ITIE!mbe,rs of l:hr,1 coum1i.l ·.h~o, Mr. SpoakfH'. [ also want to say J understand from r• H p

C) Y' 1-. ~; r• c :! C 0 . i. IJ r '! cl 1'- r• 0 I fl Ill C;! rrl I:J ('! r• S opposite, as IAJe]J as ITH'!rnber~; on th ·i. s s .i . dr~, 1-:hr'll: r: J r:!r'lr·l.y, r:·1nd th 'i. s is no reflection really on the lf)f~ ml:) C·H' s () r 1-.I-Ho1 () '1: h C:!r' c (l)(llfl:i. 1:-. ·1:: (~ ('! s I but clearly this particular Counn-i.·l·. h-~n l~li:1S pr·obab l y 1:1-H:! hru·ci~:!S 1-. working Estimates Committee of 1: hi. ~; e n l. :i. r• f'! ~; H s s ~ i o n . MR. SIMMONS: ·(Inaud:i.bJ e). MR. SIMMS : cor· r E~ c: t . May be E~ v e n t h :i s c e n I:.IH' y .

T h c,~ y h (,11 d mo r· ~~ lflE! r;! t. 'i. n g s t: han ; :~ n y other Estimates Committee did d u r· "i. n g t h i s p r· E~ s c;, n 1:: r· o u n d . r h ,:;, y heJ.d more than they were rE!qu :i.red l·:o, T. I::JU~:!SS, br-:!caus~~. t n c~sSE!ncc,1, it was basically a meeting per dc-~pi.-l.Y'I:ITlf~l'll-.. ThE .. IJ hc:1d sc~vc;!n departments, as I understand it, dnd l : hr~y hr,1l.d r ~ :i.ght Jnr-H~ I':.: i.ngs, rnor·e than IAJE:~re cal led for. They he] d a lllfHd: ing, "i.n f;~c 1-., on UH~ IH!I"IJ las t day went, right up to the last rrri.n111:1~, r.IJr.

Spnr:'ll<or·, on Thur·sday, the day that t:h(:1 rE!ports werE• l. o bH Sllbnri . l: h?.d, r:H1d l:ht~IJ f?. V!Hl r•an On that day, I unders Land, bE:•yond i·. h (·~ •i. r• r•1 l. l () 1-: ·1-: (:1 d '1' .. i.lflf?. I )_ljh 'i. C h normal] y wouJ.d be 12: 30 a.m. I 1: h i. n I< 1-. h o y r· ,:,1 n l. a t. ~:! r· 1·:. h a n 1: h d t:. . I am sure the Vice-Chairman will r: o rmn ,.,, n 1: o n 1·: h ~~ t:: , l..r.l h r ~ n h <-:l s fl <o~ i't I< s next in this particular debate. So, Mr.

Speaker, commE!ndations go t.o al.l. rnc,1rnb~ : ,rs oF l:hc,1 Cotnrn:'i.Lh'!e who performed their task in an adm'i.r'i:tbl.~~ fash i. on and should br:! commended. :r. und~?.r·si:and No.