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May 12, 2004

38th Parliament, 1st Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2004-May-12 (PDF)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L'ONTARIO

Wednesday 12 May 2004 Mercredi 12 mai 2004

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

RAIL SERVICE

COMMUNITY LIVING

CAMPBELLFORD-BRIGHTON

COMMUNITY REINVESTMENT FUND

HIKE FOR HOSPICE

CHIROPRACTIC HEALTH CARE

CARASSAUGA

NURSES

RAIL SERVICE

BY-ELECTION IN HAMILTON EAST

VISITORS

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON REGULATIONS

AND PRIVATE BILLS

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

FREEDOM OF INFORMATION

AND PROTECTION OF PRIVACY

AMENDMENT ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR L'ACCÈS À L'INFORMATION

ET LA PROTECTION DE LA VIE PRIVÉE

MOTIONS

HOUSE SITTINGS

VISITORS

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

NURSES

WATER QUALITY

TOURISM

NURSES

WATER QUALITY

TOURISM

NURSES

WATER QUALITY

TOURISM

COMMUNITY LIVING DAY

COMMUNITY LIVING BADGE

ORAL QUESTIONS

SEX OFFENDER REGISTRY

PREMIER'S ANNOUNCEMENT

GASOLINE PRICES

SALES TAX HARMONIZATION

PROVINCIAL REFERENDUM

TOURISM

SALES TAX HARMONIZATION

ORGANIZED CRIME

HYDRO GENERATION

HEALTH CARE FUNDING

HEALTHYONTARIO.COM

REMAND CENTRE IN PEMBROKE

SERVICES FOR THE DISABLED

FREEDOM OF INFORMATION

VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTERS

MINISTERS' STATEMENTS

VISITORS

PETITIONS

CHIROPRACTIC HEALTH CARE

OPTOMETRISTS

CHIROPRACTIC HEALTH CARE

PHYSIOTHERAPY SERVICES

OPPOSITION DAY

LONG-TERM-CARE FUNDING

HOUSE SITTINGS

STRONG COMMUNITIES

(PLANNING AMENDMENT) ACT, 2003 /

LOI DE 2003 SUR LE RENFORCEMENT

DES COLLECTIVITÉS (MODIFICATION

DE LA

LOI SUR L'AMÉNAGEMENT

DU TERRITOIRE)

The House met at 1330.

Prayers.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

RAIL SERVICE

Mr Frank Klees (Oak Ridges): I'm pleased to welcome representatives from the rail industry in Ontario to the House today. Thanks to the previous

government, major improvements in the rail net are now underway in this province. Soon we'll see GO service to Barrie. We'll see grade separations increase commuter capacity on north-south spokes

from the GTA without affecting freight capacity.

In opposition, the Liberals spoke very freely about making wild promises that didn't work with the competing demands of freight and commuter rail, so I'm pleased

to see they're adopting our vision of rail service in the province of Ontario.

The Canadian rail industry has worked hard to become more efficient over the last number of years. Productivity per employee has doubled over the last decade

within that industry, and rail's embrace of intermodal business models has been an important factor in the overall competitiveness of Ontario's economy.

All that this industry is looking for now is a level playing field in the area of taxation and a number of other areas that affect public policy. Given the

benefits rail can bring to reducing gridlock in our communities across the province and in fighting pollution, I believe that that respect is the very least we can do to support this industry

through our public policy. I trust this government will see the wisdom of doing exactly that.

COMMUNITY LIVING

CAMPBELLFORD-BRIGHTON

Mr Lou Rinaldi (Northumberland): It's with great pleasure today that I rise in this House to congratulate and welcome the people from Community

Living Campbellford-Brighton in my riding. They're here in the gallery.

For the second consecutive time and the first time ever in Canada, this association celebrated a three-year accreditation with distinction. The association is

the first ever to receive a consecutive three-year accreditation with distinction. In 2000, they were Canada's first recipient, and continue to maintain their high level of achievement, to once

again be nominated and awarded such a distinction.

Accreditation is based on results of interviews with people who receive support and service from the agency, together with findings of each individual's

satisfaction with the association, as well as a review of quality management and planning efforts.

Community Living Campbellford-Brighton's honours do not stop there. They were also the recipients of the Donner Canadian Foundation Award for excellence in the

delivery of social services for overall performance. This $20,000 overall award is presented to the organization that exhibits the highest level of achievement among the category award recipients.

The agency won $5,000 last year for achieving the highest honours in the services for people with disabilities category. Recipients of this award are chosen based on an objective performance

evaluation that is unique to the non-profit sector.

I want to congratulate these folks and thank them for being here today.

COMMUNITY REINVESTMENT FUND

Mr Robert W. Runciman (Leeds-Grenville): Since the Liberal government took power, Premier McGuinty has tried to convince everyone that his

government will not raise taxes. Unfortunately, this government is discovering new ways to covertly increase taxation in a way that greatly affects all taxpayers.

Residents of Elizabethtown-Kitley township in my riding are now experiencing the tax increases the Liberal government claims do not exist. Under the funding

formula approved by the previous government, community reinvestment funding was designed to cover policing costs in rural areas that exceeded $90 per resident. That means that in 2003 the

government should have picked up $499,000 of the policing costs, but instead the final CRF allocation was only $354,000, for a shortfall of $145,000.

In December, the finance ministry informed municipalities that the government would not guarantee that CRF funding would be increased over 2003 levels. The OPP

has increased policing costs in this township by over 31%, which will leave the township with a $370,000 shortfall. This is money that will have to be picked up by local taxpayers or other programs

will have to be cut.

Is that not a tax increase? The Ontario government should either be honest and admit it is raising taxes or make a commitment now that it will provide the

funding set out in the local policing funding formula.

HIKE FOR HOSPICE

Ms Jennifer F. Mossop (Stoney Creek): Just a week and a half ago, on a Sunday morning, the skies over the Golden Horseshoe of Ontario were

leaden grey, and a bone-chilling rain was steadily falling. The place to be, decidedly, was curled up under the blankets, with a good book and a hot cup of tea. But throughout the area and across

the country people left their cocoons and ventured into the forbidding climate.

At 10 o'clock that morning in my riding of Stoney Creek, some 50 people from the very tall to the very small bent their heads against the wind coming in from

Lake Ontario and began a 10-kilometre hike along the shoreline. They sustained themselves with the reason they were out on that Sunday morning in the cold and rain. They thought about hospice. In

my riding they thought about the Dr Bob Kemp Hospice.

The annual Hike for Hospice on May 2 raised much-needed funding for a much-needed service in our world. Hospice in Ontario takes many forms: volunteers who go

into homes to provide care and support for those who are facing their last days; day programs in centres; and, in some cases, a place, a homelike and humane setting where one can go on that final

leg of life's journey.

In Stoney Creek, a residential hospice is the long-held dream and goal of Dr Bob Kemp, his wife Mildred, their family, many volunteers, staff and the community.

Those who braved the elements that Sunday morning helped to move that dream closer to reality by raising $9,000. Many thanks and congratulations to all those who took part.

CHIROPRACTIC HEALTH CARE

Mr Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): Down where I come from in Niagara Centre, just like across Ontario, chiropractors play a vital role in the

delivery of health care and are an important part of our health care and medicare system.

Chiropractors, however, are reading the signals very clearly. Just like optometrists, just like physiotherapists, they see themselves as very much under attack

by this government. Chiropractors are telling folks that this budget on May 18 is going to find people across this province, seniors and other folks who need chiropractic care, sorely wishing that

the change they voted for was in fact happening, because what we see, and the writing's increasingly clear on the wall, is that chiropractors are going to suffer delisting of services and reduced

payments, along with their colleagues in the practice of optometry and physiotherapy.

It's not only stupid, it's short-sighted on the part of the government, and it's contrary to what Canadians believe in about public health care. Chiropractors

are an integral, effective part of our complete health care system. They are strong, important health professionals in the delivery of treatment to people across this province.

I say to you that New Democrats are going to resist with all our energy any effort to delist chiropractic services. Indeed we are going to resist any effort on

the part of the Liberals here at Queen's Park to marginalize chiropractic services, to in effect privatize them and to impose new and increased user fees on patients of chiropractic

practitioners.

CARASSAUGA

Mr Vic Dhillon (Brampton West-Mississauga): It's a great pleasure to have the opportunity to speak today about one of our greatest multicultural

assets. This year Carassauga is celebrating its 19th anniversary, and on behalf of the city of Mississauga I'd like to extend invitations to this city's largest community festival, running May 28

to 30.

Carassauga is a celebration of cultures, a meeting place where we can all discover the intricate traditions and histories of one another. Everyone has the

opportunity to travel the world over the three-day course of this festival. A mosaic of entertainment and traditional delicacies is celebrated across 12 locations throughout Mississauga. Visitors

are presented with a passport for unlimited access all weekend to experience different countries, including China, Greece, the Caribbean, the Philippines, Egypt, Latin America and more.

This festival debuted in 1985 with 10 pavilions and has grown to this anniversary to include 18 pavilions. Mayor Hazel McCallion is credited for the onset and

continuous success of this festival. Citizens of the city are proud of its growth and what it represents. The levels of excitement and participation from visitors are evident during this time with

the sights of parents, children, grandparents and grandchildren.

Carassauga has extended itself not only into the facet of our cultures, but it has also become a timeless tradition.

NURSES

Mr Norm Miller (Parry Sound-Muskoka): On this day in 1820 Florence Nightingale was born. She is perhaps history's most renowned nurse. As a

nurse during the Crimean War, she was fundamental in caring for those in combat. She wrote home on behalf of them, sent their wages back to their families and introduced reading rooms into the

hospital. For all this, she has not been forgotten, and her legacy of dedicated and compassionate care lives on to this very day.

However, the legacy of Florence Nightingale lives on not only in the tomes of history, but it continues to live on every day in the hospitals, nursing stations

and health care centres all over this province. In my riding, nurses like Norma Bustard give their lives to caring for those in need, and it is with pleasure that I stand today in celebration of

Nurse Recognition Week.

Yesterday I had the opportunity to attend the 30th anniversary celebration of the Britt Nursing Station in my beautiful riding of Parry Sound-Muskoka. I was

reminded of just how vital nurses are to our communities. The people of Britt spoke their praise of Ann Palamar, their nurse practitioner, sharing story upon story of how she had cared for them and

impacted their lives.

Last year I was fortunate enough to attend the opening of the Rosseau Area Nursing Station, and next month in Dunchurch, the Whitestone and Area Nursing Station

will open. These are projects of which I am very proud. I lobbied a great deal to have their applications approved, and to see them open and to know that the residents of Rosseau and Dunchurch,

like those of Britt, will be cared for by hard-working, compassionate nurse practitioners is a great joy.

We have each been touched by the work of a nurse. I would like to conclude by thanking nurses for all they have done and all they continue to do throughout this

great province.

RAIL SERVICE

Mr John Wilkinson (Perth-Middlesex): This country and our province were forged by ribbons of steel. My hometown of Stratford was the hub of the

historic Grand Trunk Railroad in the 19th century and the massive CNR repair yards in the 20th century. That is why I am pleased to rise today to acknowledge the exceptional role that the railway

industry plays in our communities.

The Railway Association of Canada is the industry association of some 60 freight and passenger railways that operate throughout Canada. In Ontario, there are 22

railway lines, including class 1, short lines, commuter and tourist railways. These railway lines span all across the province and touch all our lives, whether it's commuting to work, taking a

vacation or transporting goods to market.

Maximizing the use of railways helps to relieve pressure on congested highways, improves air quality and provides a link to both the NAFTA and global markets for

Ontario and its goods.

This morning I had the pleasure, along with other members, of attending a reception hosted by the Railway Association of Canada. I enjoyed the discussions on the

railway industry, its future and how it contributes to our economy.

Today is Rail Day at Queen's Park. On behalf of all members of the Legislature, I would like to congratulate the Railway Association of Canada and ask my fellow

members to join me in welcoming representatives of the Railway Association of Canada in the members' and public galleries.

BY-ELECTION IN HAMILTON EAST

Mr Frank Klees (Oak Ridges): I rise today on behalf of the people of Hamilton East. The question on their lips today no doubt is, "It's the day

before the by-election, and do we know where the Premier is?"

Since it's now hours before the polls open, we can confirm it. The fact is, the Premier is a mile from the riding. He is in fact a mile above the riding. He is

en route to Washington, DC. Will Mr McGuinty --

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): You did a statement before, the first statement.

Mr Klees: Yes.

The Speaker: You're only allowed one statement.

Members' statements? The member from Burlington.

Mr Cameron Jackson (Burlington): I'm as surprised as everybody in the House as to where the Premier is.

I rise today on behalf of the people of Hamilton East and the member for Oak Ridges. The question on their lips is this: "It's the day before the by-election,

and do we know where our Premier is?"

Hon Dwight Duncan (Minister of Energy, Government House Leader): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: My understanding of the rules of the

Legislature is that we're not supposed to talk about members not being here. That's number one. Number two, the clock had run down to 40 seconds and had been restored to the full minute and 30

seconds because of their misstep in having a member violate the rules. How does that happen?

The Speaker: I'm going to ask the members' indulgence on this one, because, as a matter of fact, when it started, I thought the member had his

first statement, and I was trying to recollect myself. By the time I did that, the clock was rolling. I'm going to ask the House's indulgence for you to just continue and finish.

On the second point that you made, that the clock was rolling, let me be neutral in this and say that you have half of that time in which to do it. Do it as

quickly as possible.

Mr Jackson: Thank you very much, Mr Speaker.

Will Mr McGuinty find time to wave at voters as he flies by? Will Mr Agostino's campaign workers be asked to pause and glance skyward in preparation for the

Premier's ceremonial flypast?

Yes, the Premier has not spent a single day in Hamilton East since the by-election began. Our superb candidate, Tara Crugnale, is disappointed. After all, she

was counting on the Premier's presence to boost her support, but voters will be even more disappointed to know that he has chosen to hide from their concerns.

He chose to be Dalton McGuinty's candidate -- thank you.

VISITORS

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): I'd like to draw your attention to the Speaker's gallery. We have with us today a federal minister from the

kingdom of Morocco, responsible for the Moroccan community abroad, Mrs Nouzha Chekroni. Accompanying her is the deputy ambassador of the kingdom of Morocco to Canada, Mr Ahmed Saber. Please join me

in welcoming them today.

We also have in the Speaker's gallery today Mr Jesse Flis, the former member of Parliament for the federal riding of Parkdale-High Park. He was first elected in

1979 and served four terms in Ottawa, until his retirement in 1997. Please join me in welcoming Jesse Flis.

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON REGULATIONS

AND PRIVATE BILLS

Mr Tony C. Wong (Markham): I beg leave to present a report from the standing committee on regulations and private bills and move its

adoption.

Clerk at the Table (Mr Todd Decker): Your committee begs to report the following bill without amendment:

Bill Pr3,

An Act respecting the Association of Registered Graphic Designers of Ontario.

Your committee begs to report the following bill, as amended:

Bill Pr2,

An Act respecting the Malton Seventh-day Adventist Church.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Shall the report be received and adopted? Agreed.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

FREEDOM OF INFORMATION

AND PROTECTION OF PRIVACY

AMENDMENT ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR L'ACCÈS À L'INFORMATION

ET LA PROTECTION DE LA VIE PRIVÉE

Mr Marchese moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 81,

An Act to amend the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act with respect to universities / Projet de loi 81, Loi modifiant la Loi

sur l'accès à l'information et la protection de la vie privée en ce qui concerne les universités.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Mr Rosario Marchese (Trinity-Spadina): The bill would have the effect of making all universities subject to the freedom of information act.

The public has a right to information held by public institutions, and we think the bill is in the spirit of the Premier's pledge to make all government agencies subject to FOI.

MOTIONS

HOUSE SITTINGS

Hon Dwight Duncan (Minister of Energy, Government House Leader): I move that, pursuant to standing order 9(c)(i), the House shall meet from

6:45 to 9:30 pm on Wednesday, May 12, 2004, for the purpose of considering government business.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry?

All those in favour of the motion, please say "aye."

All those against, say "nay."

I think the ayes have it.

Call in the members. There will be a five-minute bell.

The division bells rang from 1354 to 1359.

The Speaker: All those in favour, please rise to be recognized by the Clerk.

Ayes

Baird, John R.

Barrett, Toby

Bartolucci, Rick

Bentley, Christopher

Berardinetti, Lorenzo

Bountrogianni, Marie

Bradley, James J.

Broten, Laurel C.

Brown, Michael A.

Bryant, Michael

Cansfield, Donna H.

Chambers, Mary Anne V.

Colle, Mike

Cordiano, Joseph

Craitor, Kim

Crozier, Bruce

Delaney, Bob

Dhillon, Vic

Di Cocco, Caroline

Dombrowsky, Leona

Duguid, Brad

Duncan, Dwight

Flynn, Kevin Daniel

Fonseca, Peter

Gerretsen, John

Gravelle, Michael

Hardeman, Ernie

Hoy, Pat

Jackson, Cameron

Jeffrey, Linda

Kennedy, Gerard

Klees, Frank

Lalonde, Jean-Marc

Levac, Dave

Marsales, Judy

Martiniuk, Gerry

McNeely, Phil

Meilleur, Madeleine

Miller, Norm

Milloy, John

Mitchell, Carol

Mossop, Jennifer F.

O'Toole, John

Ouellette, Jerry J.

Parsons, Ernie

Patten, Richard

Peters, Steve

Phillips, Gerry

Pupatello, Sandra

Ramal, Khalil

Ramsay, David

Rinaldi, Lou

Runciman, Robert W.

Ruprecht, Tony

Sandals, Liz

Scott, Laurie

Sergio, Mario

Smith, Monique

Smitherman, George

Takhar, Harinder S.

Van Bommel, Maria

Watson, Jim

Wilkinson, John

Wilson, Jim

Witmer, Elizabeth

Wong, Tony C.

Wynne, Kathleen O.

Yakabuski, John

The Speaker: All those against, please rise and be recognized by the Clerk.

Nays

Churley, Marilyn

Kormos, Peter

Marchese, Rosario

Martel, Shelley

Prue, Michael

Clerk of the House (Mr Claude L. DesRosiers): The ayes are 68; the nays are 5.

The Speaker: I declare the motion carried.

VISITORS

Hon Mary Anne V. Chambers (Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities): Mr Speaker, on a point of order: I'd like to welcome today the

grade 7 students from the French immersion program at St Michael's Choir School who are here with their teacher. They are here with their colleague Joseph, who is one of our pages, from Scarborough

East.

Mr John R. Baird (Nepean-Carleton): Mr Speaker, on a point of order: I'd like to welcome to the gallery Toronto school trustee Rick Telfer who

is with us today.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Two members rose on points of order which are not points of order.

Mr Norm Miller (Parry Sound-Muskoka): Mr Speaker, I have a point of order which is not a point of order. I would like to point out my daughter

Renée, who is here.

The Speaker: This is a tough one to rule on.

Ms Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): Mr Speaker, on a point of order: We have the school trustee for the Toronto-Danforth riding in the

chamber today, and that is Mr Rick Telfer, who is sitting in the gallery.

The Speaker: That is a legitimate recognition, but I would much prefer that the Speaker identify and recognize the person.

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

NURSES

Hon George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): Today is International Nursing Day and this date, May 12, also marks the birth

of Florence Nightingale, in 1820. Nightingale is remembered as a pioneer of nursing and today reminds us of the importance of the nursing profession, around the world and across the centuries.

Today, I ask you to join me in paying tribute to nursing in Ontario by marking Nursing Week and in expressing our appreciation for the extraordinary

contribution that nurses make to the health and quality of life of our people and our communities every single day.

Not many professions are as diverse as nursing. Not many professions have such a rich heritage and such promise for the future. As Minister of Health and

Long-Term Care, I have the opportunity to visit communities and meet the talented, dedicated and compassionate people who deliver care. This experience is a constant reminder of what health care is

all about: people caring for people -- the ultimate public service.

Our government has embarked on a plan to make significant system-wide changes to health care, changes that will make health care more responsive, more

patient-focused and more accountable today so that we can sustain medicare for future generations.

And nurses are central to our plan for positive change. Our government believes that nurses are the heart and soul of health care. That's why we need to make

Ontario the best place to work for our nurses. That's why job one for our government is rebuilding the foundations of nursing. That's why we're working hard with the nursing community and hospitals

and other health care providers to rebuild these foundations.

First, we're going to the heart of the matter by creating positive, healthy work environments where nurses want to practise. One way to accomplish this is to

improve workplace health and safety. We need to do more to protect nurses from on-the-job injury. We know that a basic investment in job safety will deliver returns for thousands of nurses in the

form of reduced injury, quality of life and more safety and comfort for their patients.

Workplace health and safety for nurses and other front-line health professionals is a government-wide priority, and we're making significant progress in this

area.

My colleague the Minister of Labour recently created a Minister's Health and Safety Action Group to reduce on-the-job injury in the health sector. Doris

Grinspun, the executive director of the Registered Nurses' Association of Ontario, and Ontario Nurses' Association president, Linda Haslam-Stroud, represent nurses in this group.

Then in February, our government invested $25 million to improve working conditions for nurses by supporting education, professional development, and

mentoring, and to purchase new safety equipment, including ceiling-mounted patient lifts, patient lifters, electric beds and electric stretchers.

As we speak about health and safety for nurses, we're reminded of what the Campbell report described as the heroic work of nurses during the SARS crisis last

year. We must remember that nurses put their lives on the line every day on behalf of the people of Ontario.

Another concern is the number of nurses working on a casual basis, with too few being given the opportunity of full-time employment. I've challenged hospitals

to cash in the overtime dollars and dedicate those resources instead to stability in the lives of nurses, and the hospitals are responding. Hamilton Health Sciences, one of the largest hospitals in

our province, has eliminated the use of agency workers, who have typically been paid triple time. Recently I had the opportunity to visit at my local hospital, St Michael's, which has introduced

the same policies and has dramatically expanded the opportunities for full-time nursing.

But that's not all. We've invested $50 million in hospitals to create new full-time nursing positions. This means full-time opportunities for new nursing

graduates so that we can keep them here in Ontario. And this means opportunities for nurses who are now working part-time and casual; 800 new jobs have been created.

Health providers must be accountable for using precious health care dollars to deliver quality patient care. Simply put, if hospitals fail to use targeted

funding to create full-time nursing positions, they will lose this money and it will instead be invested in hospitals that can.

Accountability means giving staff nurses a voice in decisions about nursing resources. Nurses must have a direct say in decisions that affect their health,

well-being and the quality of their work life. That's why front-line nurses and nursing councils will be involved in the process for deciding how targeted nursing investments are used.

And one more point on accountability: From now on, all hospitals will be required to have their local Ontario Nurses' Association representative sign off on

funds that are intended exclusively to create full-time nursing positions. The sign-off is intended to ensure that these funds were used to create the full-time nursing positions that were

intended.

I'm constantly amazed by the diversity of roles that nurses play in our health care system. Nurses assist the most vulnerable and marginalized people in times

of need. They provide comfort and dignity to people who are facing death. Nurses bring babies into the world and help new mothers give their children the very best start in life possible. Nurses

heal wounds and manage care. They help people to conquer addictions and cope with mental illness. They promote good health and they prevent disease. Nurses teach, they research, they mentor and,

above all else, they lead.

There are many more new opportunities in store for nurses in Ontario. One such opportunity is elder care. During National Nursing Week, the RNAO and Registered

Practical Nurses Association of Ontario are jointly launching a public-awareness campaign about elder health and elder care in our communities, something that I'm working very closely on with my

colleague the minister responsible for seniors.

That's thrilling to see, because there's a tremendous need to attract more nurses to careers in elder care. We're taking action here too. Yesterday we

announced a far-reaching strategy to ensure the safety and dignity of our seniors living in long-term-care homes. As part of this plan, we will create at least 600 new full-time positions for

registered nurses and registered practical nurses. That's because we believe nurses play a vital role in building strong long-term-care and home care services in Ontario.

Our government is also moving aggressively to modernize primary health care by bringing nurses and nurse practitioners together with physicians and other

health care providers to provide integrated comprehensive care, the best kind of care that's closest to home. We will expand and enhance home care so that more people have the option of receiving

care outside of institutions.

Nursing isn't just a job, it's a calling. Every moment of every day nurses make a difference in the lives of individual patients, families and communities.

They're involved in the daily delivery of miracles. I know I speak for all of us when I say thank you to Ontario's nurses for the extraordinary contributions they're making to the quality of our

health care system in Ontario.

WATER QUALITY

Hon Leona Dombrowsky (Minister of the Environment): The people of Ontario waited patiently for years for a comprehensive strategy to protect

Ontario's water. They wanted the reassurance that their government was taking all the necessary measures to protect water at the source and at every step on its way to the tap. The McGuinty

government is going to do just that for the people of Ontario.

We have taken action. We have hired more water inspectors. We have gone to the people of Ontario to consult on source water protection. We have invested in

cleaning up the Great Lakes.

Today I am pleased to announce a new initiative to ensure that Ontario's standards serve as the best possible safeguards for our water. We are establishing an

Advisory Council on Drinking Water Quality and Testing Standards. It is very good news.

The advisory council will review all drinking water regulations in the province, including regulation 170. The council will provide advice related to the

provincial drinking water standards. It will help ensure that Ontario's standards for drinking water quality and testing are consistent with the most up-to-date information and practices.

The advisory council will be chaired by Jim Merritt, a former assistant deputy minister at the Ministry of the Environment who led the establishment of the

Ontario Clean Water Agency.

The advisory council will look at a number of ways to protect water quality and improve standards. It will be asked to give advice on replacing the existing

total coliform test with an E coli test, as Justice O'Connor recommended.

Today's announcement of an Advisory Council on Drinking Water Quality and Testing Standards means the McGuinty government has met another six recommendations

made by Justice O'Connor. This government promised to take action on the O'Connor report, and we have delivered on our promise.

I want to tell the members about another action we are taking today, relating to the ability of some smaller systems to meet the requirements of the drinking

water systems regulation. We have heard from many rural municipalities and owners of small, privately run systems. We have heard that they are having great difficulty meeting the requirements of

the regulation.

I have instructed my ministry and the advisory council to undertake a review of regulation 170, the drinking water systems regulation. The review will examine

different ways for smaller systems to meet the drinking water standards in an affordable fashion, be it different treatment options or testing regimes. We will not revise the drinking water

standards themselves. These are health based and will not be changed.

During the review we will extend the deadline for some systems, such as churches, trailer parks and campgrounds served by surface water, to install treatment

equipment for six months. We've extended it to December 31, 2004. However, we will not extend the compliance deadlines for those systems serving vulnerable populations, such as facilities

specifically designated to serve the elderly and children. During the review we will work with public health officials, the Ontario Medical Association, municipalities and private operators.

The previous government did not take the time to consider the effects of regulation 170 on rural and northern Ontario. It did not leave any flexibility for

water system owners and operators to find workable solutions. The McGuinty government has listened, and we are acting to address the needs of rural Ontario. We have been meeting, and will continue

to meet over the next few months, with small systems owners and operators to come up with safe solutions for rural drinking water systems. We know these operators want to protect water to safeguard

the health and well-being of their communities. We will help them do so. We will find solutions that make the regulation workable for rural drinking water systems, while protecting public

health.

The actions I have outlined bring us closer to our goal of a comprehensive source-to-tap system. They will protect our drinking water and the high quality of

life we enjoy in Ontario.

TOURISM

Hon James J. Bradley (Minister of Tourism and Recreation): I would like to give members a brief report on the state of our tourism industry

post-SARS. Last March, Ontario was struck by an outbreak of severe acute respiratory syndrome. The outbreak greatly damaged our $20-billion-a-year tourism trade, particularly between April and

August. Hotel beds and restaurant tables remained empty. The 150,000 businesses in Ontario's tourism industry saw their revenues plummet by $2 billion. My ministry estimates that 28,000 workers

were laid off. We saw losses not just in Toronto, Ottawa and Niagara, but across the province.

That adversity, however, gave birth to a new sense that we are all in this together. I commend the competing businesses that found common ground in an attempt

to win back lost trade for everyone. The level of collaboration between the industry and the Ministry of Tourism and Recreation reached a new level. Among the partnerships and tourism-reviving

initiatives that grew from this new spirit of co-operation was the widely watched Conan O'Brien television broadcast from Toronto. Another was the placement in a number of upscale US magazines of

nine million 16-page inserts extolling the pleasures and treasures of Toronto and Niagara.

We are beginning to see early indications of what I hope will be a permanent upturn in Ontario's tourism business. Starting last month, we began to see

improvements in the year-over-year hotel occupancy levels in the GTA. In downtown Toronto, hotel occupancy was up 55%, 113% and 180% in the final three weeks of the month. Weekly reports elsewhere

in the GTA also show accelerating gains of nearly 50% and more compared to the same weeks in SARS-struck 2003.

Despite this encouraging news, we are not out of the woods yet. There are still many soft spots in Ontario's tourism market. Hotel occupancy in Ottawa and

Niagara Falls has not rebounded strongly or consistently. Many resorts and motels in the north and outside our large cities are getting favourable signs from visitor inquiry levels and summer

bookings, but they remain concerned about the future and are cautiously optimistic at best.

It is my intention to meet with tourism stakeholders once again in the near future to discuss how we can work together to build on the progress we have made. A

few good weeks do not a full recovery make, but I am hopeful that we have seen the worst. Our government will continue to work with the industry as we all look forward to further positive change.

We will continue to assist communities across the province that are depending on a tourism rebound to help them grow and be better able to provide their residents with a high quality of life.

Mrs Elizabeth Witmer (Kitchener-Waterloo): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I'm wondering why the government would choose not to follow the

practice that has been in place in recent years and ask for unanimous consent for each party to speak for five minutes in honour of Nursing Week. Why would three statements be done and we only be

allowed five minutes to respond to all three statements?

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): If the members asked for it and the House leader wanted to do it, that's fine. But it was not asked for. I

don't think it's a point of order.

Responses?

NURSES

Mrs Elizabeth Witmer (Kitchener-Waterloo): It's regrettable that the government is shortchanging nurses this week.

It is with great pleasure that I rise today to recognize and pay tribute, on behalf of our party, to nurses in Ontario. This year's theme, "Honouring Nurses: A

Team of Dedicated Professionals," is most fitting.

I want to begin by expressing our heartfelt appreciation to the nurses in the province. Many activities are planned this week, and I was very pleased to have

had the opportunity to visit Mount Sinai Hospital earlier this week with Doris Grinspun to see first-hand the contributions that our nurses are making as they deliver care to patients. I could see

first-hand their professionalism, their caring, their dedication and their commitment.

There is much to celebrate this week and throughout the entire year when we take a look at the role of nurses. They are valued and trusted by the public, and

they work selflessly and tirelessly each day to care for those in their care. I've had many opportunities to work and see the contributions of our nurses.

I trust that the government will build on the strong foundation that we have put in place by responding to the nursing task force, investing almost $400

million, introducing nurse practitioners and creating about 12,000 new nursing positions. I can assure the government that we will hold them to their promise to hire 8,000 more nurses and increase

the number working full-time. It is my sincere hope that this government will move forward to build on the foundation we put in place to ensure that our nurses have a safe, healthy and satisfying

work environment.

WATER QUALITY

Mr Toby Barrett (Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant): It's another day and another announcement of a moratorium from this Liberal government: in this

case, the deadline extension on small, privately run water systems. How much weight do these moratoriums carry? We recently became aware of the moratorium on school closures, and again, we know

that's not going to stop boards from closing rural schools.

The question is, will today's announcement address the real problem? The real problem is the cost of this regulation, the cost of compliance for Ontario's

small, privately run water systems. I guess that raises the question: Will we see some funding for the small water works in the budget next week? If I had more time, I would expound on that

further.

TOURISM

Mr John Yakabuski (Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke): I'm pleased to respond to the statement by the Minister of Tourism and Recreation. We're very

pleased on this side of the House, too, to hear of recovery in the tourism business, which had begun under the SARS recovery program instituted by the previous government.

When you talk about revenue and job losses in the tourism industry, and they're talking about 28,000 workers laid off, that reverberates throughout the entire

economy and has a very damaging effect in an industry that has a half million people employed both directly and indirectly.

I have some concerns about the tax policies of this government and what we might expect to see in the upcoming budget, how that might undo all the positive

things that have happened to the tourism industry and how that might affect us down the road. So I do ask the minister to make sure that he is getting his points across to the finance minister,

that the tourism industry cannot see increases in taxes, because we'll lose the gains that we're trying to make. It's a struggling industry, and we have to make sure that we do everything we can to

help it recover, and not only in the GTA, as we have indicated, but across Ontario where certain sectors of the tourism industry have not had the support that is necessary. I would like to see some

increase in that regard as well.

We are looking forward to working with the ministry and the minister, and also with the stakeholder groups across Ontario, to revitalize this industry and to

make it an important cog in the economic wheel -- it is an important cog, but to regain that tremendous prominence that it should have in the economy of Ontario, because we will all benefit because

of that.

NURSES

Ms Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): It's a pleasure for me, on behalf of New Democrats, to salute Ontario nurses during Nursing Week, because we

know that Ontario nurses work in a variety of settings across the province. They are working in wards in ER departments, in cardiac care and in neonatal care. They're working in homes to provide

home care to the ill and the elderly. They're working in public health units and community health centres as part of a team to deliver health promotion and illness prevention. They're working in

long-term-care facilities, supporting some of Ontario's most frail and vulnerable clients. Ontario's nurses are an integral part of the health care system, and we rely on their compassion, their

dedication, and their training every day. So it's in that context that I want to review the Ontario Liberal election platform with respect to nurses.

First of all, the promise to hire 8,000 new nurses: I don't know whether or not the minister's announcement yesterday to hire 600 more new nurses in

long-term-care facilities is part of that 8,000. More importantly, I don't know how he's going to deliver on that promise.

The former government made an announcement of $100 million for long-term-care facilities in July 2002, promised 2,400 new nurses and personal support workers,

and a year later, after the ministry did a survey of where that money went, we discovered that only 1,700 new people were actually hired. So the minister's got to have a very concrete plan of where

that money goes and to ensure it's not going into WSIB and long-term disability benefits and everything else.

Also, we are waiting for the response of the 600 announced yesterday as part of the 8,000 commitment. Where is the balance of the funding to support the 7,400

other nursing positions that were promised by this government?

Secondly, let me look at the promise about 70% of RNs working full time. The initial announcement only targeted $25 million, and that was for large hospitals

with budgets of over $100 million. Now I know the minister got lobbied by a number of small hospitals -- they represent the majority of hospitals in the province -- for their share of funding

too.

I just want to read this: "Needless to say, I was extremely disappointed to hear that the $50 million went to hospitals with budgets in excess of $100 million

-- 32 out of 159 hospitals. There was some suggestion that the rationale around the decision was based on the assumption that only hospitals of that size could manage to hire the nurses into

positions before the end of the fiscal year. I had already made it clear that we have 28 nurses graduating from our local nursing program, 75% of whom are looking for full-time work...." That was

sent to the minister by Lesley Brown of Lake of the Woods District Hospital in Kenora. I think it was as a result of those kinds of letters that the ministry finally moved to provide money to the

smaller hospitals.

A couple more commitments: The ministry said they were going to hire more nurse practitioners. There's been no announcement about that. The ministry was going

to invest in long-term care. There's been no announcement of funding for home care. The government announced that they were going to fund 150 new family health centres. There's been no announcement

for the expansion of or new community health centres. What the government did do was cancel the free tuition plan for nurses -- something that could have worked to attract and retain some of those

new graduates who are coming out.

WATER QUALITY

Ms Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): To the Minister of the Environment: Your announcement today to undertake a review of regulation 170

will be welcomed by all those who have been unable to comply, but let me say to you that what you should have been doing today is announcing the resources they needed to comply.

part II of the Walkerton inquiry, page 476, recommendation 84, Justice O'Connor makes it clear that those types of water works need provincial resources. He

says, "Situations requiring subsidies should be dealt with as the need arises, rather than cause a departure from the high standards of drinking water safety." No matter what you do with this

regulation, they are going to need some resources.

But what I'm really alarmed about today is that you're announcing the review of this regulation when I and others have raised in the media a concern about

regulation 903. That is the regulation that oversees our wells across this province. It's been described as deficient and virtually unenforceable as drafted. I've asked you a question in the House

to see if you consulted with your own expert on this, and you didn't answer the question. This is a flawed and very dangerous regulation that desperately needs to be reviewed. You turned down the

Canadian Environmental Law Association's request to have a review. The reasons did not make any sense whatsoever. So I'm demanding that that regulation be reviewed as well.

TOURISM

Mr Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): If you're really serious about tourism, I say to this government, you're going to do something about the

skyrocketing gasoline prices, because if those skyrocketing gasoline prices aren't brought under control by this government utilizing its jurisdiction to regulate those prices, the only thing

noteworthy about this tourist season is going to be the number of small business bankruptcies in the tourism sector. So I say to the minister, he is senior member of his cabinet. Come next

Wednesday morning, go into that cabinet room, knock some heads if need be, tell your government to pass Gilles Bisson's Bill 74, which will roll back, freeze gasoline prices. You'll do more for

tourism by doing that than any number of meetings and consultations that you say you're going to conduct.

Hon Dwight Duncan (Minister of Energy, Government House Leader): Mr Speaker, I believe we have unanimous consent for each of the three parties

to speak for up to five minutes on Community Living Day.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Do we have unanimous consent as requested by the government House leader for each of the parties to speak for

five minutes? Agreed.

COMMUNITY LIVING DAY

Hon Sandra Pupatello (Minister of Community and Social Services, minister responsible for women's issues): I rise in the House today to speak

in recognition of Community Living Day in the Legislature. I am very proud to welcome member organizations of Community Living Ontario who are here in the galleries and in the chamber today. I want

to say that there are guests who have travelled from far and wide to be with us, and we welcome you.

For over 50 years, the community living movement has made huge differences for us in our own communities. You've been a source of tremendous support for tens

of thousands of individuals with a developmental disability. The developmental services sector and the people it helps have come a very long way because of your vision, your spirit and your caring

nature. You have played a major role in helping to change the public's attitude toward people with a developmental disability, and you are to be applauded for that. Because of your efforts,

Ontarians recognize and value the gifts and contributions that people with a developmental disability can bring to us.

You've done a tremendous job of supporting inclusion at the community level with projects such as the Appetite for Awareness campaign, in which I was proud to

participate last week, where Jane Brickmore brought me a Subway sandwich, I'm happy to report to the Minister of Health -- a very healthy lunch as well -- and in that way could bring to communities

the notion that every one of us should be living together in harmony.

Your work is important and the government recognizes that. To quote the Premier, "For us to realize our full potential as a province, we need to ensure that

all Ontarians can reach their full potential as individuals."

We've come a long way in the last 50 years. We need a comprehensive plan to move forward in our future, not just another five-year plan, but let's look forward

another 25 years.

Much like the document Challenges and Opportunities gave us the blueprint that pushed us forward and was used from the mid-1980s until today, we need that kind

of vision to move us into the future; long-term solutions for sustainable services that don't need to rely on politics to make it happen so that when we look back, we can say, "We've moved

mountains yet again."

An old Chinese proverb says, "The longest journey starts with one step," and in this first month we've taken some good first steps. We've expanded the range of

supports and services available to adults with a developmental disability. We've launched two video-conferencing pilot projects, one in southwestern Ontario and one in northwestern Ontario, to

bring specialized clinical services to remote and rural Ontario. We're creating much-needed housing to help adults with a developmental disability lead more independent lives. And we recently

signed a new federal agreement so we can have more resources from the federal government in the area of employment support. We are pleased with that new agreement that brings more services to us in

Ontario.

That's a good start, but the time has come for us to take another leap forward to more inclusivity. To do this, our government and our communities have to make

important and strategic investments to get the results we want. We have to look at examples from the communities that work with people with disabilities. Sometimes they do have the answers for us,

and I will be encouraged to be working with people in our communities to develop those answers.

I would like to reference connectability today. Community Living Toronto have put together an interactive Web site. It's actually a virtual community of

services available for people with disabilities so they can access services better, more easily, with everything that you can imagine, to be more useful to individuals with a disability, and I

congratulate them on that kind of innovation.

Our plan has to be guided by principles of fairness and equity and, on that, we also need to have shared responsibility and long-term sustainability. We know

we're going to have challenges; we know a huge deficit is one of them. I believe that we can move forward. I believe that while we'll live within our means as a government, we will provide

sustainable services. Together, we're going to figure out how to do that.

It must be done, because we insist that by making our communities stronger and more inclusive, we can give all Ontarians a quality of life that is second to

none. May I say also that I would like to ask Jane Brickmore for her autograph on this photo that we took together during Appetite for Awareness.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Responses?

Mr Cameron Jackson (Burlington): I'm very pleased, on behalf of our caucus and all members of the House, to comment briefly on the 50th

anniversary of Community Living Ontario.

My earliest image of persons with intellectual disabilities was one shared with me by my mother -- I was told this story when I was very young. She grew up in

the north end of Winnipeg, Manitoba, in one of the poorest districts of that community. There was a young boy who was intellectually handicapped; in fact, his younger brother was Terry Sawchuk, the

famous goalie. This boy had been chained to a tree in the backyard. That was the level of care he was receiving.

I never really overcame that image, and I'm sure many members of this House have similar stories and images that remain with them for their entire life. So I'm

pleased today to commend the association for its compassion and enlightenment over the last 50 years in understanding that there is misunderstanding and ignorance that still exist in a society that

fails to recognize that all citizens have equal rights and opportunities.

For me personally, it's a fundamental part of my volunteer life as a private citizen in this province. For 31 and a half years I have been an active,

card-carrying, dues-paying member of the Burlington Association for the Intellectually Handicapped and worked with them as they went through three different name changes until they settled on

Community Living. I support that, because it really is the principle we must aspire to for these people.

All governments have made attempts in the last few years to improve the quality of life for our citizens who are intellectually handicapped. But, frankly, we

know there is so much more to be done. In the last election, all three political parties campaigned on the principle that they were committed to increasing funding for disabled individuals through

the Ontario disability support program. I'm sure all members of the House are hopeful that there will be some good news for these individuals in the budget next week.

There is more that can be done in terms of working with the federal government, not just on employment opportunities but also on income support, housing and a

whole range of other supports that are required on the agenda for change and for improving quality of life. We know that we still have three

schedule 1 institutions in this province: the southwest

regional centre, the Rideau and Huronia. We know that every government has made a commitment to deinstitutionalization, and yet we find out now that new admissions are occurring in these

residences. We need to know there is a commitment on the part of this government. Maybe it's too early, but we would like an early signal. I know I speak for the association: They would like some

assurances.

The association, on behalf of the people they care about, is looking for a new policy framework for citizenship, to take it from the old social welfare program

and move it more toward a citizenship and empowering model. After all, those who have become accustomed to working with persons with intellectual disabilities have soon learned that these people

are not really disabled; they are just differently able. Society should recognize that, and our laws should reflect it. We should be demanding, as a province, and provide the leadership to demand

that we have a national framework and a federal charter of support for a national disability act. Ontario is one of the few provinces that has one, and I acknowledge that the government is

currently reviewing our act, but we still need to press upon the federal government.

It goes without saying that there are tremendous pioneers who have supported this movement, and I would be remiss if I didn't acknowledge Patrick Worth and

Peter Park, whom many of the veteran members of this House would remember, who started People First. We are joined in the House today by Keith Powell, the executive director, by Garry Cooke, the

current president, and by Claude Sauvé, who is a client advocate. We acknowledge their extraordinary efforts.

Finally, I would like to commend the association, the devoted staff, the volunteers, the enlightened employers and the caring families for their devotion to a

single profound principle that we should all be supporting, and that is full inclusion for people who are identified as having an intellectual disability. That should be in all aspects of living in

the province of Ontario.

Mr Michael Prue (Beaches-East York): It is indeed a pleasure and an honour for me to rise on behalf of the New Democratic Party to talk about

Community Living Day.

It is within all of our collective lifetimes, and we probably all in this room remember, when people with disabilities ended up in institutions. It is only in

the last 25 or 30 years or so that we have recognized what a waste of people's lives that was, a waste where they spent their lives away from their families, where they never realized their true

potential, where they never had families or loved ones of their own, where they were literally kept in an institution and never saw the outside of that institution for their entire lives. Those who

were lucky enough not to be institutionalized, of course, lived with their families. They lived at home, but they too had their problems, particularly when the mothers and fathers, the parents, and

the siblings as well, grew older and were unable to care for them. We had nothing, really, as a society and we should have had so much more.

Thankfully, we now live in more enlightened times. Since 1987, we have seen a number of institutions, 15 out of the 18, shut down. We have seen people

deinstitutionalized; we have seen them brought into our community. We know there are still three institutions, and other speakers have spoken to that. They need to be shut down and they need to be

closed now.

To close them now, though, this government must do a couple of important things. Number one is that we need to build supportive housing. We need that

supportive housing in a desperate way. None has been built for years, absolutely none. I will tell you that this government has promised to build 6,000 units of affordable housing over the next

four years and none has been built yet. I'm waiting and I think the entire community is waiting for these to be built. This is the single greatest determinant of health for people with intellectual

disability. If they can get supportive housing, they can make it in our community.

I think of some of the people in my own community of Beaches-East York and what they have done so brilliantly. I think about the Pegasus Project, which

provides opportunities for those who are challenged, entertainment opportunities mostly, in the Beaches community. I think about the "three guys" initiative at O'Connor and St Clair, where three

young men live together in a sort of co-op, in one apartment, and are able to look after themselves. I think about a wonderful group called Lemon and Allspice, which is providing jobs in the

catering industry for those with intellectual challenges. I think about a group called the Dream Team, who provide jobs for those who go out and deliver messages and pamphlets, and who do just a

tremendous job advocating on behalf of those people. And particularly, I think about an individual by the name of Martin Levine, who tells a harrowing story of being institutionalized throughout

most of his life, only to be released from the institution. He today has a job and a wife and an apartment and looks after himself. It is proof that Community Living can deliver the goods. I think

about the Salvation Army home for older adults that exists in East York, on Broadview Avenue, and the wonderful job they have done. They have given back lives and independence and jobs and marriage

and a sense of community.

What this government needs to do most of all, though, apart from the houses, is to raise the rates of ODSP payments. They have been viciously, and I would put

that word very strongly, frozen since 1993. It is now at a maximum of $930. For those who live in the greater Toronto area, the average apartment is $890, leaving them a scant $40 a month to buy

food, transportation and clothes. It cannot be done.

We know that $930 has not matched the cost of living and in fact has fallen 18% over the past 10 years. We know they have got absolutely nothing. Every single

person on ODSP payments in this province lives below the poverty level, no matter where they live. We know their earnings are simply not keeping up, and we know that even when they're able to get

small jobs outside, that is clawed back. That is disgraceful.

Interjection: Real jobs.

Mr Prue: Yes, real jobs. We know that those who work in the service have not been kept up with their money.

Next Tuesday is budget day, and we need to know five things from this government: Will you raise the rates, will you build new housing, will you stop starving

the social service agencies, will you close the remaining institutions, and will you allow these people to be inclusive in our province? If you do, you can look --

The Speaker: Thank you.

COMMUNITY LIVING BADGE

Mr Cameron Jackson (Burlington): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I would ask for unanimous consent that members be allowed to wear the Living

Life, Living Proof community living badge today.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Do we have unanimous consent to wear the button? Agreed.

ORAL QUESTIONS

SEX OFFENDER REGISTRY

Mr Ernie Eves (Leader of the Opposition): This question is to the acting Premier for the day. Today, when many are remembering Holly Jones,

I'd like to ask how your government can justify not proceeding with the necessary funding -- some $700,000 of expenditure -- to assist Toronto Police Services in tracking sexual predators, when you

have $500,000 to invest in pre-budget focus groups?

Hon George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): To the Attorney General.

Hon Michael Bryant (Attorney General, minister responsible for native affairs, minister responsible for democratic renewal): I say to the

leader of the official opposition, you're operating with some bad information. Part of this is a victims' justice fund issue, which is within my ministry, and it goes without saying that that

particular local project, as the minister said today, is part of a more comprehensive project. As to the part that affects that community and comes out of the victims' justice fund, of course the

government will be providing that funding. Of course we will.

I want to permit the minister to talk further about what the sex offender registry is doing, but I guess my question is: Who said that we weren't?

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Supplementary?

Mr Robert W. Runciman (Leeds-Grenville): Chief Julian Fantino says you weren't doing it -- he's quoted in the Toronto Sun today -- and is

hoping that you will do it. After almost seven months in office, you haven't flowed that money. The promises made, not just to the Jones family but to all the neighbourhoods of Toronto, to track

serial predators when they're on the Ontario registry -- the only sexual offender registry in Canada, I might add; we've been counting on your federal cousins to do it for 12 years and they haven't

done a damned thing. It's still not up and running.

Why have you not committed that money? After seven months in office, why is that money not flowing? Why is that project not up and running?

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order. Could we please temper our language a bit?

The Attorney General.

Hon Mr Bryant: The Minister for Community Safety.

Hon Monte Kwinter (Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services): I'd like to take this opportunity to set the record straight. When

the former minister announced that he was going to provide $700,000 to provide compliance with the Ontario sex registry act, he could not get that funding from his own colleagues. The money was

never given. He tried to get it out of the --

Mr Eves: Talk about getting your facts wrong.

Hon Mr Kwinter: Well, let me tell you: He tried to get it out of the victims' justice fund and couldn't get it. They were going to get the

money; they couldn't get it. But I should tell you, and this is important to know, that at the present time the Ontario --

Mr Eves: That's not true. August 6, 2003.

Hon Mr Kwinter: It has never, ever been flowed. Never. And I want to tell you this: The sex registry offenders act is complied with in Toronto

at 96% -- 96% compliance. So to suggest that this money is not doing the job, I will tell you this: We will make a commitment to make sure that we get as close to 100% as we can. But for you to

suggest that we are remiss when you did nothing -- you did absolutely nothing. All you did is what you always do: You make an announcement and forget about it. That's all that has ever

happened.

Mr Runciman: That minister should be embarrassed and ashamed. He should actually stand up and resign from office. No government did more in

terms of approving law and order in Ontario than the Harris-Eves government. We set up Canada's first sex offender registry. The money for this fund was approved in cabinet on August 6. The money

was approved. Every police officer in Toronto, from Fantino down to the cop on the beat, knows that if the Conservatives were in government today, that program would be up and running and Toronto

communities would be much safer than they are today. You're not doing this. Are you saying the program isn't justifiable? You've been in office seven months. When are you going to do something?

Hon Mr Kwinter: I'll have you know that I just left Chief Fantino. He confirmed to me that he did not make any comments that objected to what

was happening. You should also know that you had up until the time that this government changed hands to flow that money. You never did. You didn't do it. So what was the whole problem?

Interjections.

Hon Mr Kwinter: This was your commitment and you didn't follow through on it. All you did was make announcements so you could show that you

were trying to do something. You did nothing. You did nothing, which is your standard modus operandi -- issue a press release but do nothing about it.

The Speaker: That was the end of the first lead --

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order. This should be a new question, and I'd ask that members direct their questions to the Chair.

PREMIER'S ANNOUNCEMENT

Mr Ernie Eves (Leader of the Opposition): I have a new question, and I'd like to refer this question as well to the Acting Premier.

Yesterday, an official in the Premier's office was quoted as saying that an executive from one of the four major networks approached the Premier's office

asking if they wanted free time for an historic announcement relating to budgetary matters. Interestingly enough, none of the four major networks can identify anybody in their employ or in their

executive who actually made this request. Could you please enlighten us today as to exactly who, from what network, talked to exactly whom in the Premier's office in making this request, or will

you stand up in your place and admit that this was actually a little thing started by the Premier's office?

Hon George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): What I'm not going to do is stand in my place and get involved in a game of

pointing fingers and who said what, and I'm certainly not going to get into a game of uninformed speculation. It strikes me that what has occurred has been put on the public record.

The fact of the matter is that as a government we're focused on our budget on Tuesday. I would invite the honourable member to pay close attention on May 18 at

4 o'clock to see a government acting on its priorities, which is to repair the damage done by his record when he was in government and enhance the quality of public services in Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Supplementary, the member for Nepean-Carleton.

Mr John R. Baird (Nepean-Carleton): They told us to show up here at 4 o'clock on the 18th, but what were they trying to do on the evening of

the 17th? They got caught trying to grease the skids of public opinion. They got caught trying to manipulate the public into believing they were keeping their campaign promises. The reality is that

the TV executives think your Premier has no credibility and wouldn't give him the free air time. They've given every Premier free air time over the years except for this one.

Mr Acting Premier, let's be honest. The truth is that you didn't need television to break the news on your budget. You needed television to break your campaign

promises not to raise taxes. Will you now admit that there was no way you ever intended to keep the lid on taxes, that you intended to raise taxes right from the beginning on the people of

Ontario?

Hon Mr Smitherman: It's fascinating to hear him use a phrase like "grease the skids" when he's from the political party that took the budget

out of the Legislature of Ontario and put it on television in an automobile manufacturing plant.

With respect to the situation we encounter in this province, it's getting just a little bit thin to hear from that side, from the gang that squandered one of

the greatest economic expansions around and left the books in crappy shape, lousy shape, shape that should embarrass us: a $5.6-billion deficit and a further $2.2 billion in unpaid bills like in

hospitals. With all due respect, we are a government that's going to move forward on the commitments we took to the people of the province, to reaffirm our commitment to public medicare, to enhance

the quality of our health care and to deliver on our promises to do what you didn't do, which is improve the quality of education in Ontario.

Mr Baird: The reality is that the Liberals got caught and the television executives wouldn't give them their free time. They wanted to

announce their budget on prime time television with the Premier in some sort of fireside chat, but it's this Premier who got burned.

Let's look at some of the facts. This gang of wild spenders told the people of Ontario they could have it all: more money for health care, more money for

education, more money for everyone and bringing in a balanced budget, all at the same time as holding the line on taxes. This Premier went on television on September 23 and looked every Ontario

family in the eye and said, "We won't raise your taxes by one single penny." That's the real outrage. That's the real disgrace. That's what's in the budget, not where the budget's being

announced.

The Speaker: Question.

Mr Baird: Would the Acting Premier stand in his place and commit to the people of Ontario to a full and open referendum so that the people of

Ontario can approve this wild tax hike that's on the verge of being inflicted on them?

Hon Mr Smitherman: I remember a certain province-wide referendum that occurred on October 2, and one of the issues that was at play in the

middle of that referendum was the false claim by that political party while in government that they would balance the budget. The member from Nepean-Carleton uses the word "burned." You know who

was burned? The people of Ontario were burned: burned by your squandering of economic expansion, burned by untrue information about a $5.6-billion deficit, and certainly burned by the fact they

left a further $2.2 billion of unpaid bills in places like our hospitals. That's who got burned. Burned by them were the Ontario taxpayers, but we're going to reaffirm our commitment to restore the

quality of public health care and public education in this province. Tuesday, 4 o'clock: Be there.

GASOLINE PRICES

Mr Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): My question is for the Acting Premier. Across Ontario, consumers are being gouged at the gas pumps.

Before the election, Liberals were everywhere advocating gas price controls. Suddenly, now that you're government, you've gone into hiding. You claim there's nothing you can do. You've forgotten

your own history. In the summer of 1975 consumers were being gouged by soaring gas prices. The Premier then, Bill Davis, didn't run and hide. He came into this very Legislature and froze gas prices

for 90 days. The question is, will you follow the lead of Bill Davis? Will you protect consumers?

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Question.

Mr Hampton: Will you pass your own bill, the keep your promises at the pump bill? Will you do that, Minister?

Hon George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): Mr Speaker, to the Minister of Energy.

Hon Dwight Duncan (Minister of Energy, Government House Leader): Earlier today, the price of gasoline was about 90.4 cents in the greater

Toronto area, with similar price increases in Montreal, Vancouver, throughout the United States and around Western Europe. The gas price is a very serious issue. I've met with some representatives

of the oil industry. We are concerned about the price and its impact on the overall economy.

A number of members on all sides of the House have introduced bills designed to reflect the opinions of their constituents. Their constituents are very angry

about the price of gas, as are we. This is a serious matter that is affecting the entire economy, and our view is that we share the concerns of the members opposite and those who have introduced

bills. We want to be certain that any action this government or any other government takes moves the file forward and doesn't do more harm to the economy than is being done by the international

price of oil.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order. I'm going to ask the member for Nepean-Carleton to stop shouting across. I'm having difficulty hearing the question and

the answer.

The member for Kenora-Rainy River.

Mr Hampton: If the Liberals would stop whining and wailing, you might be able to hear the question and the answer.

Minister, your refusal to protect consumers is just another broken Liberal promise. Before the election, Liberals were everywhere. Rick Bartolucci, Bill 32:

roll back gas prices. Bill 16, Mr Bradley, now Minister of Tourism: gas prices. Bill 58, Mr Crozier: gas prices. Bill 44, Mr Colle: gas price watchdog. Bill 163: Crozier again. Bill 33, Mr

Gravelle: gas price watchdog. Bill 60: another Liberal promise.

There is nothing stopping you from acting. When you were in opposition, you were listening to the consumers. Now you're listening to big oil. It was done in

1975. Will you finally keep your own promises? All we're asking you to do is pass your own bill.

Hon Mr Duncan: I had an opportunity to study the Davis price freeze of 1975, and that price freeze lasted 90 days. Subsequent to that, gas

prices spiked again.

There's a very different climate today. The views of the experts I've consulted indicate to me that putting a freeze on today would in fact raise the price of

gasoline, resultant from the provisions of NAFTA that would not allow us to prevent the export of our supplies. So taking that course of action would hamper our economy. It would, in fact, over the

long term, and in the short term, raise gas prices again.

The solutions that the member opposite has put forward are inconsistent with what he did when he was in government, which shouldn't surprise anyone. The NDP

energy ministers in 1991 and 1992, the Honourable Brian Charlton and the Honourable Jenny Carter, refused to do anything. I think the one thing we don't want to do --

The Speaker: Order. New question.

Mr Hampton: The difference is, New Democrats didn't go around the province before the election promising we'd reduce gas prices.

SALES TAX HARMONIZATION

Mr Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): Acting Premier, every time Ontarians turn around, they're being told by your government to pay more.

You promised to freeze hydro rates. Now you say, "Pay more." You wanted to tax meals that cost less than $4. Now you're talking about harmonizing the provincial sales tax with the GST. What that

means is that hard-working people would have to pay taxes on their electricity bill, provincial sales tax on gasoline, on natural gas, on children's clothing, on children's footwear. I want to ask

you straight out, Minister: Will you rule out, here and now, that in this budget you will make any move toward harmonizing the PST with the GST and, in that, raising taxes on dozens of items?

Hon George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): What I'm not going to do is get involved in the uninformed speculation that is

the heart and soul of that member's work. We are, as a government, working toward our budget. We're very excited about this coming Tuesday at 4 o'clock. I recommend that the member pay full

attention on that day.

I'll give you a glimpse into what you'll see, and it's not hard to figure out because it's consistent with what we've been doing as a government: delivering

our commitments to enhance the quality of public services in Ontario with the kinds of announcements I had the honour of providing yesterday on behalf of our government, with a $191-million

reinvestment in our existing long-term-care facilities. Our budget is about re-establishing confidence in the public among those chief public services like health care and education.

Mr Hampton: They tell you that you should watch someone's body language, and what I saw from the Acting Premier was, "This is a problem."

You're darn right it's a problem. If you're talking about delisting the health care services of optometrists and chiropractors, that's going to cost people money. If you make any move to harmonize

the provincial sales tax with the GST, that is going cost people all kinds of money.

Minister, the one thing I don't hear you floating is a trial balloon. We know that under the Conservatives, the wealthiest people in Ontario got a 35% tax

reduction. I don't hear any Liberal saying that those people need to make a greater contribution now. Why is it that you sound so much like the Conservatives? People on low incomes have to pay

more. People on middle incomes have to pay more. Health care services are going to be delisted. Tell us now you're not going to do another Harris-Eves tax attack on the lowest- and modest-income

people.

Hon Mr Smitherman: I didn't know until today how much interest the member had in my body. So here's my body language back to you, and hear it

clearly from me. Our government, on Tuesday at 4 o'clock, will bring forward a budget which begins to do the reversal of what they did, which begins to treat our most vulnerable with the respect

and the support they require, and which begins to make those crucial, necessary reinforcements, reinvestments in quality public services like health care and education.

I just want to encourage the honourable member opposite, who seems to be suffering from a little amnesia about the role he played while in government, not to

be in such a hurry to suggest that the things they did are the solutions that we will move forward with.

PROVINCIAL REFERENDUM

Mr Frank Klees (Oak Ridges): My question is to the Deputy Premier. I have it on fairly reliable sources that Elections Ontario officials have

been asked to prepare for a referendum in the very near future. That being the case, that will either be a referendum for increased taxes so that you're not found to be offside with the Taxpayer

Protection Act, or it has something to do with one other promise you made, and that has to do with electoral reform; namely, proportional representation, which may well be what you need to take

some attention away from this budget that you'll be bringing in and all the tax increases there. Can you tell me and tell the House, first of all, have those instructions in fact been given to

Elections Ontario? If so, why would you not have informed the House?

Hon George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): I know the honourable member likes to talk often about the quality of his

inside sources. We heard from the weatherman last week who has been speaking to him about those year-round snowstorms. I want to say to the honourable member that we're not interested in getting

involved in the game that he's involved in, which is fuelling with speculation stories that may appeal to him.

Here's where we're at. We're but a few days away from the delivery of our budget. Our government looks forward to the opportunity to take to the people of

Ontario our plan to transform health care, education and the quality of life in our communities. At 4 o'clock on May 18, the honourable member will have an opportunity, as will all of us, to be

involved, hearing it right here in this Legislature. All I can say to the honourable member is that I recommend that he be here.

Mr Klees: I certainly will be here at 4 o'clock, and I predict that you and I and every Ontarian will witness again some more broken promises

from this government. It's interesting that when they raise trial balloons, that is consultation; when they're challenged with the truth, that's speculation.

The fact of the matter is, Elections Ontario has been given instructions to prepare for a referendum. Why will you not come clean on this issue and simply

admit to the people of Ontario that you have in mind to increase taxes, which will be a direct breaking of your promises to the people of Ontario? Why won't you just tell the people of Ontario what

it is you have in mind for them?

Hon Mr Smitherman: In my earlier answer, I said that the honourable member was speculating. The fact of the matter is, I think he's just

making stuff up.

He talked about broken promises. This from the party -- I remember Mike Harris: "It is not our plan to close hospitals." Remember that one? How about the

party, even at Magna, that stood up and said they were going to bring in a balanced budget, only to find upon evaluation that not only was it $5.6 billion, but they'd stuffed another $2.2 billion

worth of pressure in the balance sheets of hospitals and of other community-based agencies. That's his record. He wants to project it on to us.

All I can say in response is that on the 18th at 4 o'clock, in this very place, this government will put forward its plan for the transformation of public

services in Ontario. We on this side and our loyal friends opposite in the middle there are pleased that that's coming, and we're going to demonstrate --

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Order. New question.

TOURISM

Mr Kim Craitor (Niagara Falls): My question is directed to the Minister of Tourism and Recreation. Your ministry has undertaken several

initiatives to assist the beleaguered tourism industry and aid it in its recovery from last year. In my riding of Niagara Falls, my constituents are asking me whether the investments made by your

ministry are starting to yield results. Minister, are we starting to turn the corner on the downturn seen last year in the tourism industry?

Hon James J. Bradley (Minister of Tourism and Recreation): A very good question and a very important industry. As the member will remember,

last spring, unfortunately, SARS struck Toronto, and it was really difficult for the whole province when that happened. The worst months were April through August. Through no fault of anybody

around here, it happened, and it made for difficult times. But starting in mid-April this year, we began to see some early positive signs which are encouraging to me at this time.

I mentioned earlier today that hotel occupancy rates in Toronto, for instance, in one of the weeks in the month of April, were up some 180%, and 50% in room

rentals around the GTA. These are positive signs, but I don't see that it's a complete recovery at this time, because some motel and resort operators in the north and elsewhere will only say

they're cautiously optimistic. But I'll tell you something: By all of us working together -- private industry, the government and all the partners -- we're starting to turn the corner in this

industry.

Mr Craitor: Thank you, Minister. I'm pleased to hear that you're investing in relationships with the tourism industry. It's crucial that the

government demonstrate its commitment to this vital industry, and I'm glad to hear that the positive effects of your ministry investments are being felt. Are you confident that the entire province

is starting to feel a positive upswing in tourism trade?

Hon Mr Bradley: As I say, I see some sparkles of light now in what were some pretty dark days as a result of last year. Let me say that in

Niagara Falls, for instance, we're not yet seeing what I would call a clear pattern of improvement or recovery, from the hotel occupancy statistics we have. To combat this issue, we recently

announced $2.3 million in funding for Niagara Falls tourism, for television ads and newspaper inserts, as well as a $3.5-million investment in a Toronto-Niagara insert into the upscale US magazines

read by some 40 million potential visitors. Other investments we've made have been yielding results. The Royal Ontario Museum is up 37% over last April. Signs are improving at the Shaw Festival.

We've had some increased reservations there.

But it's premature to consider the crisis to be entirely over at this time, and I'm planning to meet in the future with people from the industry to get us back

on track.

SALES TAX HARMONIZATION

Mr Robert W. Runciman (Leeds-Grenville): I have a question for the Acting Premier. I'll admit off the top that it is speculation. The Liberal

government doesn't do very well at keeping promises, but they do very well indeed at scaring people. I'm not talking about your body, Minister, but I am talking about the stories circulating about

the plan to harmonize the PST and the GST.

I hope that you and your government recognize the implications for the housing industry in this province. We're talking about a significant increase in the

cost of housing. The average home is $300,000. If you go through with harmonization, that could mean an additional $24,000 added to that cost. It's going to impact on young people hoping for

first-time ownership. Will you assure the House and people across this province that this will not be a part of next Tuesday's budget?

Hon George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): It strikes me that in the last 29 minutes and 35 seconds I've had a chance to

give the same answer a whole bunch of times. I'm happy to give it one more time. We're not going to get involved in that kind of uninformed speculation, which the honourable member himself admits

he's asking. He could have saved us all 50 seconds in question period.

What I will say is what I've said to other members. Come on Tuesday, 4 o'clock, and I promise you that our government is going to move forward with the things

we committed on to the people of Ontario, namely, to enhance the quality of public services in this province, focusing on health care, education and the quality of life in our communities.

Mr Runciman: Unhelpful answers are the heart and soul of that minister's world. I want to make sure that the Acting Premier and his cabinet

colleagues, let alone his backbench colleagues, understand the implications of what happens if indeed you move ahead with this initiative to harmonize the PST and the GST. We're talking about

approximately 340,000 jobs in the province that are dependent on this industry. You're going to make this industry go from being the biggest, most productive sector of Ontario's economy to being

the least productive overnight if you move ahead with this initiative.

We're talking about $19 billion in wages through this industry, $34 billion in provincial GDP, and 450,000 jobs -- I correct my record, 450,000 jobs. Once

again, I ask you and implore you to give assurance to the people of Ontario today that you will not move ahead with this ill-thought-out initiative.

Hon Mr Smitherman: It seems to me, in answer to the honourable member's question, that when we were in opposition we got together in the

morning for a question period meeting. They get together for a speculation period meeting. I just don't know if it's a healthy thing for all of you. I'd say instead that we're charged with the

responsibility, on behalf of the people of Ontario, to come forward with our plan, to deliver on the commitments we made, keeping in mind the circumstances that member and his party left

behind.

Here's what I can say for sure. We recognize the extraordinary benefits that accrue to Ontario by having a healthy industry. This is a critical and essential

point of the work the Minister of Finance is doing. I assure you that on Tuesday afternoon at 4 o'clock, because you've confirmed to me that you'll be here, you'll see from our party, in

government, a plan to move forward to enhance the quality of essential public services.

ORGANIZED CRIME

Mr Brad Duguid (Scarborough Centre): My question's to the Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services. I'm sure all members of the

House are greatly concerned about safety in our streets. This morning we all heard media reports that Toronto, York and Durham police launched a number of raids across the GTA, early this morning,

to target illegal guns and gang members. According to reports, a number of arrests were made. My question to the minister is, how did the Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Services

assist the Toronto Police Service, the Durham Regional Police Service and the York Regional Police Service in this recent crackdown on guns and gangs?

Hon Monte Kwinter (Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services): I thank the member for the question. I think all members will want

to know that at 1:30 this afternoon I attended a press conference at police headquarters where we announced the largest gang action crackdown in the history of the Toronto Police Service: 65

members of the Malvern crew, as it's known, were arrested. Many hundreds of charges were laid. Drugs were confiscated. Arms were confiscated. It was a joint effort made up of various police forces,

including the OPP. The OPP, through their weapons enforcement unit and their organized crime section, played a key role in this particular operation. I think all of us should congratulate the

people who were involved in that particular operation because it is a major dent in the situation that we are suffering.

Mr Duguid: While the previous government talked tough on crime and did nothing about it, this government has already taken action. I'm pleased

to see that, and pleased to hear the minister's response. We all know that the rise in gun violence in Toronto's streets in the last two years is unacceptable and requires action. Last year,

shootings were responsible for almost half of all violent deaths in Toronto. All but two of 31 gun-related murders were believed to be gang-related. We have to keep the justice system one step

ahead of organized crime. We have to have an organized justice system to battle organized crime. The Attorney General has announced that he and his crown prosecutors are working with the Toronto

police in setting up a special anti-guns and gangs unit. Can the minister verify that this important initiative was part of this operation?

Hon Mr Kwinter: I refer this to the Attorney General.

Hon Michael Bryant (Attorney General, minister responsible for native affairs, minister responsible for democratic renewal): Yes, my officials

have been working closely with the police on Project Impact. This is precisely the new approach that we are bringing to try to be more organized than organized crime and to try to tackle the

guns-and-gangs crisis that we have here in the city of Toronto and across Ontario. We're having a dedicated prosecutor for this particular project. We had a dedicated prosecutor assigned to the

project to assist police from the very beginning. They will also, of course, be taking the matter through the prosecution stage. In addition, we have these new crown/police task forces where the

dedicated prosecutors, these experts, will be assigned and, from day one, will be working on this 24/7. It's a new approach and it's working.

HYDRO GENERATION

Ms Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): I have a question for the Minister of the Environment. Minister, today your Premier is in Washington to

lecture the Americans about their coal-fired generating stations. While it is true that, no doubt about it, George Bush's plan to weaken pollution control should be vigorously opposed, the Premier

would have much more credibility if the Liberal coal plan wasn't all smoke and mirrors.

I heard your own energy minister tell Bay Street that you won't be closing coal plants until you have replacements, but after six months in charge, your

government has failed to get even one firm commitment to build new generation to replace the coal plants. Minister, your government is fiddling while coal burns. Why don't you level with Ontarians?

Isn't your promise to close Ontario's coal plants becoming one more broken promise?

Hon Leona Dombrowsky (Minister of the Environment): The Minister of Energy would like to respond to this.

Hon Dwight Duncan (Minister of Energy, Government House Leader): Premier McGuinty is in Washington today doing the right thing, telling the

Americans, "Don't loosen the regulations." There are 96 coal plants at various stages of development in the United States. We are downwind from 54 of them. That's why our Premier and this party and

this government committed to closing our coal plants. We will make that commitment. That party, to lecture this government about environmental policy and about energy policy, ought to be ashamed.

When you were the government, you shut down all conservation programs in 1992 and 1993. In January, your leader sitting next to you compared one coal plant to the other, and said that one is good

and one is bad. You've been all over the board. This government's clear. It's consistent. The Bush administration's wrong in reducing the regulations on coal, number one. Number two, the Americans

are wrong --

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Thank you. Supplementary.

Ms Churley: You know, Minister, when the NDP was in government, we brought in more conservation and efficiency programs than any government

before us, and when we left government, even with some stopped by Ontario Hydro, there were still more conservation programs in place than there are today. Check your facts before you say that

again, Minister.

What I'm asking you is if you will still be keeping your commitment to close the coal plants by the year 2007. You are drastically short of real financial

incentives to homeowners when it comes to conservation. You're relying too much on interval meters that you know will cost homeowners hundreds of dollars, and even though they contribute to a very

small portion of what is needed, it doesn't even come close.

The Pembina Institute released a report yesterday saying conservation and efficiency are much cheaper than nuclear power. So I'm asking you today, will you

invest $18 billion between now and 2020 and go a long way toward solving Ontario's energy shortcomings, and will you commit again to close coal --

The Speaker: Thank you.

Hon Mr Duncan: We have committed already a quarter of a billion dollars to conservation, the largest in the history of the province. We are

bringing in interval meters as part of a comprehensive plan to encourage conservation, which will include time-of-use rates, something you never did. Between 1993 and 1995, Ontario Hydro phased out

all demand-side programs.

What else did they do? They shut down the Conawapa project; they cut it off. What did their leader at that time say? He said it was a good thing to do. Well,

he was wrong. He was wrong then and they're wrong now. Their record doesn't even begin to stack up to this government's record on conservation, and we've been here for six months. Premier McGuinty

is leading the way, not only in this jurisdiction but across Canada and, I would submit, in the western world, on making conservation part of our culture, part of our lives. We will do what you

failed to do: make our energy cleaner and greener.

HEALTH CARE FUNDING

Mrs Elizabeth Witmer (Kitchener-Waterloo): My question is for the Minister of Health. Minister, as you know, the month of May is Foot Health

Awareness Month, and 80% of people in this province will experience a foot problem at some time in their lives. On average, over 60% of patients seen by podiatrists are seniors, and about half of

those people suffer from diabetes. Many of the seniors are on fixed incomes, and certainly, if they had to pay for this service, it would be quite difficult.

Minister, the question I have for you today is, will you commit that in the budget you will not eliminate OHIP funding for podiatry services?

Hon George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): Consistent with the theme of the day, I'm not going to get involved in

speculating around whatever is brought up on that side. I would say, in reference to the very important program the member opposite asks about, that we recognize how much important and crucial

essential support it is providing to people in the situations that she outlines, including diabetics, our seniors and the like. So while I'm not involved in the kind of speculation that seems

rampant over there, I can confirm to the member that I agree with her analysis about the importance of this program.

Mrs Witmer: This is from a minister who has responsibility for podiatry. Surely he could give me a simple no. In fact, if I take a look here

at his ministry briefing notes from May 6, "Other OHIP Practitioners," question 6 says, "Are you also considering delisting podiatry services?" The answer is, "No. Podiatrists provide essential

foot care to seniors and diabetics. The province spends about $4.6 million on podiatry."

He couldn't even answer the question that's in his own briefing book. I am disappointed to tell you that these same briefing notes, when the question is to be

asked about chiropractic and

schedule 5 physiotherapy services, I'm afraid the people in this province are not given the same reassurance that OHIP funding will continue for these services.

Minister, can you commit today that you will not delist chiropractic or

schedule 5 physiotherapy services?

Hon Mr Smitherman: I'm always interested to get a stern rebuke and lecture from the former minister, but on this point I'm pretty consistent.

I haven't been involved for months and months now, to all the media questions that have come and those that in the last few weeks have come in this House, in speculation about what will be and what

will not be in the budget. I very clearly sent a signal that our budget will be about restoring confidence and quality in our health care system, rebuilding what they have diminished over their

eight years in office.

All I can say is that as Minister of Health and a member of this government I'm excited about this coming Tuesday. I intend to spend an awful lot of time and

energy travelling around our province to indicate the extent to which our government is committed to quality health care in Ontario.

HEALTHYONTARIO.COM

Mr Mike Colle (Eglinton-Lawrence): My question is to the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care. Minister, last week I had the pleasure of

announcing to the House that your ministry's Web site, HealthyOntario.com, was one of five nominees for the eighth annual International Webby Awards under the category of best government Web site

in the world. Minister, do you have an update on the nomination? Did we win, and how well did we do?

Mr John R. Baird (Nepean-Carleton): Wow, you won a Webby.

Hon George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): I think the member for Nepean-Carleton would be well served to spend just a

minute or two surfing HealthyOntario.com. There he would find what 4.5 million people every month are finding, some of the best-quality and accessible information about health care known to the

world.

The member opposite laughs about winning a Webby. But if you're in the business of marketing and providing information by Web sites, then you would know that

this is like winning the Oscar. What I'm pleased to say, Mr Speaker, is that the Ontario government's health Web site, HealthyOntario.com has been voted the best government Web site in the whole

wide world.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Supplementary.

Mr Colle: All I can say is, I have no supplementary. Just log on to HealthyOntario.com.

REMAND CENTRE IN PEMBROKE

Mr John Yakabuski (Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke): My question today is for the Minister of Community, Safety and Correctional Services. Back in

late March, you'll recall that myself and officials from the city of Pembroke, Mayor Jacyno and Councillor Shirley White, met with you to discuss the possible building of a remand centre in the

city of Pembroke. At that time, you indicated to us there would be an announcement that the jail in the city would close. A couple of weeks later, in fact, that jail did close, and I've met with

you personally since then. I've also communicated to you by mail. When can we get an answer with regard to the possibility of having a remand centre as per the proposal by the city of Pembroke,

established in the city of Pembroke?

Hon Monte Kwinter (Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services): The member should know that the Pembroke jail is 136 years old and

in 1998 the previous government decided to close it down. They did nothing about it. Five years went by without any closure of an announcement they had made in 1998.

During that period of time, the officials in the city of Pembroke submitted several proposals to the previous government as to what they wanted to do. They

were all turned down. They didn't agree to any of them.

About five weeks ago, that member, with his mayor, came to see me with a proposal, and I said I would look at it. To assume that I would make a decision in

five weeks when that government didn't make a decision in five years is silly. We are looking at it, and we will get back to you on that.

Mr Yakabuski: At that time, Mr Minister, you did indicate to us that we should expect an answer in about six weeks, so you've got a week.

However, with respect to that closure, the jail was closed under your watch. I want to tell you about something I read in the Ottawa Citizen this morning,

where a judge in Ottawa granted credit for jail time, served at a three-for-one rate, to a man convicted of spousal abuse because of overcrowding and poor conditions at the Innes Road jail. One of

the reasons we've got overcrowding at the Innes Road jail is because the Pembroke jail was shut down last month, so those prisoners are now being held in the Innes Road jail. We have a situation

where it's coming back now; the chickens are coming home to roost. We indicated that there were going to be problems because of this closure, and there was no contingency plan in place. Now we're

having problems. The legal --

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Thank you. Minister?

Hon Mr Kwinter: Mr Speaker, the member should know that, on average, there is ample accommodation in our correctional facilities in eastern

Ontario. But because we have no control as to the number of people who are sent there -- that is not our job; our job is to receive them, not to determine who goes there -- from time to time there

is an imbalance and there is some crowding. When that happens, we try to accommodate them; we try to shift people around. That's just good management. So to suggest that the prisoners who came out

of Pembroke are creating a problem in the Ottawa-Carleton Detention Centre just isn't the case. What is really happening is that we are doing what we should be doing, and that is managing our

facilities to the point where they're operating efficiently and economically and safely for the people who are in them.

SERVICES FOR THE DISABLED

Ms Laurel C. Broten (Etobicoke-Lakeshore): My question is for the Minister of Community and Social Services. On April 26, I had the

opportunity to meet some of the most amazing people in my community of Etobicoke-Lakeshore when I had an opportunity to sit down and spend the morning with Community Living Toronto. I listened to

them and, most importantly, I learned from them. I learned from the challenges that they face in their lives. I learned from the experiences that they lived. I learned from their families. And I

learned the hopes and dreams that they have for their future.

Minister, it's very important to me and to my community to know what our government is going to do to help these people and their families.

Hon Sandra Pupatello (Minister of Community and Social Services, minister responsible for women's issues): I can tell you that all of us in

this House, I believe, members of all political parties, want to move forward with positive change for individuals who live with disabilities in our communities. Let me say that over many decades

we have moved mountains to have inclusion in our communities for everyone, and I think each government of the past needs to be applauded, frankly, for that.

We haven't gone far enough; that is true. Our government intends to move mountains still, and we're going to need help from our various communities to do that.

I can tell you that in the time that we've been government, we have moved forward. We are building new places to live in communities so individuals can live with dignity in their communities. We

have a long way to go, and we want to move this forward.

Ms Broten: Thank you, Minister. One of the most poignant moments I had during the meeting was when they talked about their future: What would

happen when their parents aged? What would happen, parents worried for their children, when they aged? How would they live with dignity, and how would they live independently in our communities? So

it's very important, I think, that we look at how we can help them as their families are growing older, and how we as a society can look after these people and their future and try to make those

futures less uncertain. I look forward to hearing what we might do to help these families with this most difficult circumstance.

Hon Ms Pupatello: I think it's important to note that we are engaging everyone who works with our friends with disabilities. I want to tell

you that we intend to engage in some major discussions around serious issues about how we go forward in the future. There are major questions to be asked.

Some of the things that I remember the most in my stint here as an MPP was meeting aging parents of individuals with disabilities, whose questions are the same

as those of the member for Etobicoke-Lakeshore: "What happens when I die? Who's going take care of my children?" There is nothing more heart-rending for any of us in the House who have had to watch

an individual ask those questions. We have to be part of a government that helps with the answer.

We also have to help get our supports together so we make it easier for parents to access services, easier for individuals and families to have assessments

made about what their true needs are, and we have to find a fair and equitable way to deliver those services.

FREEDOM OF INFORMATION

Mr Rosario Marchese (Trinity-Spadina): My question is to the Chair of Management Board. I believe the public has a right to know what goes on

behind closed doors at public institutions like universities. People shouldn't have to jump through hoops to find out from university administrators how public money is being spent. But that's

exactly what is happening, because currently universities are not subject to the freedom of information act.

Minister, I suspect that's an oversight and that, as we speak, you're working to include Ontario universities under the freedom of information act. Is that

correct?

Hon Gerry Phillips (Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet): At the time the provincial freedom of information legislation was enacted, it

was the expectation by the government of the day that universities would prepare their own freedom of information bylaws or regulations that would ensure that the public had a right to information

in universities. We expected that to happen. We have asked universities to review that, and they are doing that right now.

The Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities and myself are also reviewing whether it is time that the province may have to amend its freedom of

information legislation to include universities.

So we're doing both of those things. We are asking universities to review whether they have done what they said they would do at the time and whether it's

satisfactory, but the Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities and I are also reviewing legislation that we may do provincially.

Mr Marchese: The problem is that nothing has happened in 17 years, and you're still hoping they might. The point is that we've got to do

something. In December, your government opened the files of Hydro One and Ontario Power Generation, and I'm telling you the benefits of that are obvious. Universities receive about $2 billion a

year in public grants. That's a lot of money being spent with no public scrutiny whatsoever. Universities should be subject to the same scrutiny as government agencies and departments.

My question is, will you lift the veil of secrecy and bring universities under the freedom of information act, and do it now?

Hon Mr Phillips: Of course we'll lift whatever veil of secrecy that may still remain. You may very well be right: Perhaps the universities

haven't acted appropriately, as you would like, for the last 15 years. The challenge is that we haven't been in power in the last 15 years.

We are acting. We have asked the universities now to review their policies, and I also repeat what I said earlier, that the Minister of Training, Colleges and

Universities and I are reviewing it to determine whether we need to move forward provincially.

I would just remind us all that one of the very first things we did was amend the freedom of information act to ensure that colleges and universities are

required to work with the Provincial Auditor for the first time. The Provincial Auditor will now have a chance to do value-for-money studies in our colleges and universities. That was one of the

very first things we did. We're now moving on to the next step, which is to review our freedom of information act. We will do something that hadn't been done for 15 years: make sure there is

freedom of information in our universities.

VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTERS

Mr Ted Arnott (Waterloo-Wellington): My question is for the Minister of Community Safety, and it concerns double-hat firefighters:

professional firefighters in Ontario who deserve the right to serve as volunteer firefighters in their free time. As the minister is well aware, the firefighters' union has been forcing

double-hatters to resign as volunteers. This has the effect of weakening volunteer fire departments across the province.

Six weeks ago today, the minister informed the House that he favoured the establishment of another mediation process to solve this issue. He has since repeated

his statement that a structured mediation will be forthcoming. He has said this on a number of occasions in this House.

My Bill 52 provides an answer to this problem. When will the minister take concrete steps to protect double-hatter firefighters in the interests of community

safety in Ontario?

Hon Monte Kwinter (Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services): I thank the member for the question. It's a question he's raised

on several occasions in this House and in a previous House.

I find it interesting that he is still promoting his particular private member's bill. When he was on the government side, he couldn't even get his government

to support his bill. So you have to understand that if it were an easy solution, it would be done.

In the meantime, I should tell you that just the other day I visited the annual meeting of the Ontario Association of Fire Chiefs. We discussed this issue. My

concern and the concern of the chief fire marshal of Ontario is that community safety is the primary goal of what we're trying to do. We're trying to get to the point where no one is put at risk

because of fire. That means we have to deal with this issue, and we are dealing with it. It is not simple, or it would have been resolved long ago, but I give you that commitment.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Supplementary.

Mr Jim Wilson (Simcoe-Grey): For me and for many of the members on this side of the House, this issue boils down to a simple concept, and

that's the concept of freedom. We here in a parliamentary democracy take an oath to protect and preserve that. The union, the Professional Fire Fighters Association, is taking away, through

intimidation, the right of these volunteers to serve in their local fire brigades.

Minister, at the time that Mr Arnott brought forward his bill, there was a free vote in the House. You seem to have your history a little wrong --

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order. I'd like to hear the member for Simcoe-Grey. I'm hearing a lot of heckling coming from this side. Could the member for

Simcoe-Grey state his question?

Mr Wilson: The overwhelming majority of people on the honourable member's side at that time voted in favour of that bill. Rather than

criticizing him today, why don't you bring forward his bill? We'll have another free vote in the House, and let's do something to help preserve and protect freedom in this province rather than just

talking about it. The union has now ended the moratorium. The intimidation is going to continue, and you have a responsibility to do something. Call the bill forward and let's have a free vote.

Hon Mr Kwinter: We have in place in Ontario the fire marshal. He is monitoring the situation very, very carefully. If he determines that any

citizen of Ontario is at risk because of what is happening with this particular issue, he will advise me as to what to do.

But just to clarify the situation, notwithstanding that this was a private member's bill, if you're the government and you want to get a bill passed, you have

the ability to do it, notwithstanding what happens in the private members' hour. Obviously the government that you represented did not have an interest in getting that bill passed.

MINISTERS' STATEMENTS

Ms Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): I rise on a point of order, Mr Speaker, and I would refer you to standing order 35, particularly

section (a), which reads, "A minister of the crown may make a short factual statement relating to government policy, ministry action or other similar matters of which the House should be informed."

There's something about time allotments, and then (

c) reads, "Two copies of each ministerial statement shall be delivered to the leaders of recognized opposition parties, or their representatives,

at or before the time the statement is made in the House."

I rise on what I consider to be a very serious point of order. Today the Minister of the Environment delivered in advance a statement, which is most

appropriate and which under the standing orders has to happen. I read it carefully and didn't perhaps hear the minister when she read something completely different. After reading the statement

that was delivered to me, I made an assessment of that statement and then gave my opinion and remarks based on the statement that I had read from the minister. When I was making my statement, in

fact, I was hearing howls of protest from the government members, saying, "Read the statement. What you're saying isn't correct. The minister said in her statement that she was doing" such and such

a thing. In fact, I got a curt note from the minister suggesting that if I had read the statement, I wouldn't have said what I did.

Well, I've now checked Hansard, and the statement that the minister read has an entirely different policy announcement in it, that is absolutely significant. I

would not have given the same remarks that I did, had I known the true facts. The difference is quite significant, which is why I'm pointing it out.

In the minister's statement, through Instant Hansard, it says, "The advisory council will review all drinking water regulations in the province." The copy that

I received said this: "The advisory council will look at a number of ways to protect water quality and improve standards. They will be asked to give advice on replacing the existing total coliform

tests" etc. Further, it says, "The advisory council will provide advice related to provincial drinking water standards." It goes on and on like that.

Nowhere in the statement that was delivered to me today was there any indication that this new advisory council would be asked to review all water standards,

which had an impact on the way I responded to that minister's statement today. I demanded that the government also review 190, which it appears they're going to do. I would have made completely

different remarks, a completely different response, had I had the true minister's statement in front of me.

Mr Speaker, I'd like your ruling on this. I have heard from some of my colleagues over the past few days, including the member for Nickel Belt, that they have

a statement from the Minister of Health with different numbers in it, as I understand, that she didn't have access to. I believe this is very serious. I believe the spirit, in fact not just the

spirit, but the rule of the law here under our standing orders is that we be given the exact statement that the minister is going to make.

Today was particularly serious, because I read that statement and responded in such a way as was indicated by the statement that I received. If the minister is

correct in her statement, which is the right one? We have to clear up some confusion here. Is, in fact, this new advisory body going to review every water regulation in the province or isn't

it?

Mr Speaker, I'd appreciate a ruling on this.

Mr John R. Baird (Nepean-Carleton): On the same point of order, Mr Speaker: I won't speak for very long, only to indicate the official

opposition's concern for the point raised by the member for Toronto-Danforth. Obviously, if we're to make a substantive response to what is a serious and important issue to the people of Ontario,

we've got to depend on the accuracy of documents provided by the government.

Hon Dwight Duncan (Minister of Energy, Government House Leader): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I too have reviewed the statement and the

Instant Hansard. There is a change in one sentence, as I understand it. I appreciate the member raising the point.

On all ministerial statements we indicate on the front, and the member opposite did her work, "Check against delivery." That's present on this document, as I

understand it. I would say there's no violation of the standing orders; in fact, what the minister said in th