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April 12, 2022

RESOURCE COMMITTEE

Pursuant to Standing Order 68, Tom Osborne ,

MHA for Waterford Valley,

substitutes for Paul Pike, MHA for

Burin - Grand Bank .

Pursuant to Standing Order 68, Scott Reid ,

MHA for St. George's - Humber,

substitutes Lucy Stoyles, MHA for

Mount Pearl North .

Pursuant to Standing Order 68, Elvis Loveless, MHA for

Fortune Bay - Cape La Hune ,

substitutes for Sherry Gambin-Walsh, MHA for

Placentia - St. Mary's.

The Committee met at 9:02 a.m. in the Assembly Chamber.

CHAIR (Warr):

Good morning, and welcome to

the Estimates of Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation.

We'll

call the meeting to order. Prior to getting started, I wanted to announce some

substitutions. Substituting for a Committee Member for Placentia - St. Mary's is

the Member for Fortune Bay - Cape La Hune; substituting for the Member for Mount

Pearl North is the Member for St. George's - Humber; and substituting for the

Member for Burin - Grand Bank is the Member for Waterford Valley.

Just

before we start, I don't see any independent Members here this morning, but just

in case someone comes in, I just want to get an agreement from the Committee

that we would do as we normally did, and give them 10 minutes towards the end of

the Estimates meeting here this morning. Thank you.

Just a

little bit of housekeeping, just a reminder to our Committee Members and

certainly to the executive of the department that when you're identified by the

minister or a question comes to you, just identify yourself and just wait for

your tally light to light up, and proceed with answering your question.

Consistent protocols – the masks must be worn at all time by Chamber employees,

unless they are speaking. Members are reminded not to adjust their chairs; these

chairs have been adjusted specifically to Members who use the chairs during the

House proceedings. Water coolers are at both ends of the Chamber, and we'll get

started.

Before

we do, I'll ask the Committee Members to identify themselves when their tally

light comes on, please.

G. LITTLEJOHN:

Glenn Littlejohn,

Researcher, Opposition Office.

C. PARDY:

Craig Pardy, MHA, District

of Bonavista.

J. BROWN:

Jordan Brown, MHA for

Labrador West.

S. FLEMING:

Scott Fleming, Researcher,

Third Party caucus.

S. EAST:

Sarah East, Researcher with

GMO.

S. REID:

Scott Reid, MHA, St.

George's - Humber.

E. LOVELESS:

Elvis Loveless, MHA for

Fortune Bay - Cape La Hune.

T. OSBORNE:

Tom Osborne, Waterford

Valley.

CHAIR:

Thank you.

I'll

ask the department officials to do the same please, thank you.

B. STEELE:

Bonnie Steele, Departmental

Controller.

S. CROCKER:

Steve Crocker, Minister of

Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation.

K. STONE:

Karen Stone, Deputy

Minister.

CHAIR:

There's no one in the next

chair, so we're going to Gerry Osmond.

G. OSMOND:

Gerry Osmond, ADM, Arts and

Culture.

B. GARDNER:

Ben Gardner, ADM, Film,

Television and Recreation.

CHAIR:

We're back in the back.

E. ANDERSON:

Eilanda Anderson, Executive

Assistant.

T. NEWHOOK:

Tina Newhook, Director of

Communications.

CHAIR:

All right, thank you.

We have

a virtual participant and actually that's Carol-Ann Gilliard.

C. GILLIARD:

Hi, Carol-Ann Gilliard, Assistant Deputy Minister.

CHAIR:

Thank you, Carol-Ann, and good morning.

I would

entertain a motion from the Committee members to adopt the minutes of the April

7 meeting, please.

moved by Minister Loveless; seconded by Jordan Brown.

All

those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

And that's passed.

motion, minutes adopted as circulated.

CHAIR:

So, again, this morning we

are considering the Estimates for the Department of Tourism, Culture, Arts and

Recreation. I will ask the Clerk to call the first set of subheads, please.

CLERK (Beazley):

Executive and Support Services, 1.1.01 to 1.2.03 inclusive.

CHAIR:

Shall 1.1.01 to 1.2.03

inclusive carry?

Minister Crocker.

S. CROCKER:

Thank you, Chair.

It's

great to be here this morning. First of all, before we get into it, even before

we get to the end of this, I want to thank the staff for the tremendous work

they've done preparing our Estimates and the amount of work that they have done

over the last year in a department that has very much been affected by COVID in

it's primary industries. So thank you very much to the staff.

Coming

off last week's first Hospitality Newfoundland and Labrador Conference in over

two years we met a sense of renewed optimism. Marine Atlantic is expecting its

best year in 10 years. Our airlines are anticipating selling seat capacity of at

least 90 per cent of 2019 capacity during the summer months. Our outfitters and

operators are booking packages beyond 2022, into 2023 and 2024.

Recognizing how hard COVID-19 has hit the tourism, arts and culture industry, in

this budget we have an additional $20 million of one-time investment to invest

in marketing, signage, visitor information infrastructure and new research

strategy, strategic product development initiatives, air access, our Arts and

Culture Centres, Provincial Parks, and our Provincial Historic Sites and a

cultural export strategy through the new Celebrate NL.

It is

Come Home Year. Our special Come Home Year cultural and economic support

programs of NL received outstanding, innovative applications from all over the

province. We received 494 applications under CEDP and paid out just over $4.1

million. Of this amount, it's important to note $2 million of which will go

directly to pay artists in accordance with the

Status of the Artist Act . The grant

money helped leverage over another $4.3 million. Under Active NL, approximately

$1.9 million will fund 266 applicants to develop or upgrade trails and outdoor

recreational spaces to encourage healthy, active living.

There

will be music, theatre, film, arts and culture celebrations in over 170

community throughout Newfoundland and Labrador in the coming months. By way of

example, we have helped with 75 events with a music component, more than 100

shows, three festivals, two dance projects, 20 visual arts events, two literary

festivals and 92 community celebrations.

Our

return on investment is quite high. Aside from COVID-19 years, tourism spending

is approximately $1.2 billion each year. Statistics Canada estimates that our

cultural industries contribute $445 million to the provinces GDP and create

4,800 jobs.

I look

forward to going through the Estimates line by line this morning. Again, thank

you very much to the staff of the department for the tremendous work that they

have done over the past year. It has been challenging but very rewarding.

Thank

you, Chair.

CHAIR:

Thank you, Minister.

1.1.01

to 1.2.03.

MHA

Pardy – and good morning.

C. PARDY:

Thank you, Chair, and good

morning as well.

I echo

the minister comments on thanking the staff. It has been two tumultuous years

indeed, but, obviously, by what the minister has read there, we seem to be

coming out of the so-called fog and looking well.

would be nice to have a copy of that. I know, Minister, that it will come out in

the Estimates but it will be a period of time for them to do so.

S. CROCKER:

MHA Pardy, we will make

available the binder by stick and any information I have we'll get over to you

guys, forthwith.

C. PARDY:

Fantastic, can't ask for any

better than that.

If we

could look at the Program Funding

Summary at the start of the budget. In that

line it will look at the Capital expenditures; $100 for Executive and Support

Services; $1.3 million for Tourism; and then we have the $10 million, I'm

assuming, equity stake in the film industry.

Is it

possible that we could get a breakdown of what that is? I know the $100 is not

much but it just baits ones curiosity as to why $100 is showing on the books.

S. CROCKER:

It baited me as well, when I

first seen it, but it's actually a placeholder in a line item. I think it was in

the last fiscal year, we had some unexpected infrastructure issues at one of the

Arts and Culture Centres. When we went to actually do the improvement, I think

the improvement was to sound boards.

C. PARDY:

Yes.

S. CROCKER:

We didn't have a line item.

So what we did this year in a precautious approach, in case there was something

else to come up, we have a line now.

C. PARDY:

Okay.

S. CROCKER:

We have an infrastructure

line at the Arts and Culture Centres, that if there was an unexpected need, we

have a heading.

C. PARDY:

Makes sense.

S. CROCKER:

Obviously, to your comment

around the $10 million, again that is our continued commitment to the film and

television industry, as was announced in last year's budget and it's just a

continuation of the $10 million equity investment.

Tourism, I'm going to defer to deputy on that one. I know it will come clear as

we get further into the Estimates. I don't have – do you know what that one is

right off the top?

C. PARDY:

These are usually

construction projects or loans or major equipment purchases or –?

S. CROCKER:

It will certainly come out

in the capital as we go through the line by line.

C. PARDY:

Okay, we can move past.

S. CROCKER:

Yes.

C. PARDY:

Before I get with a few

general inquiries to start with, I just want to throw out the NASCAR series

announcement that came forth. I know that we're investing and I'd be amiss if I

didn't ask, knowing that we have our cost-of-living issues in the District of

Bonavista and over the province of the Island. I know that many would question

to say: Did we do a cost-benefit analysis of this investment? And that's a fair

question.

S. CROCKER:

Fair question.

C. PARDY:

Because until you get that

answer, you can't formulate your opinion and you can't be able to direct others

as what the benefit of this would be.

Will

that come up today or can that not be presented now?

S. CROCKER:

Not specifically, but I can

certainly address it now.

absolutely did. Anytime we take on an event, one of the things we do is look at

a cost-benefit analysis. In this case, we would have done it primarily with

Destination St. John's. The event obviously will be a little further out on the

Avalon, but the major beneficiary, I guess, in a lot of ways of the week-long

events will be St. John's. So we estimate an investment of approximately

$600,000 over the three years. We anticipate a return somewhere north of $5

million. I believe that is conservative at best.

I would

also add in here that that investment is also into marketing. So in that

$600,000 over the next three years, it will give us placement on the Pinty's

Series o n TSN. We will be running our ads. So not only is this investment

with NASCAR, I guess, an investment in bringing the event here, really it's a

marketing investment. So what we'll see is we'll see ads during this event, of

this NASCAR event, and we'll also see ads at the other Pinty's Series races that

are advertised on TSN.

C. PARDY:

Is it possible to get a copy

of that? Is that on paper that the Destination St. John's would have that done?

S. CROCKER:

The cost –

C. PARDY:

The cost-benefit analysis.

S. CROCKER:

I'm not sure what detailed

information we would –

C. PARDY:

Because that does sound

wonderful.

S. CROCKER:

Yeah, and it is wonderful,

but we can certainly see what we can get you on that, but any time we would go –

there would be correspondence I'm pretty sure from DSJ on that?

OFFICIAL:

So we'll get you what we have on that.

S. CROCKER:

Yeah. Okay.

C. PARDY:

Good.

S. CROCKER:

But any event like this, we

typically go to the DMO that would be involved to help the event.

C. PARDY:

Good.

Thank

you very much.

S. CROCKER:

Just anecdotally, just to

add to what these events actually bring; so when they first decided they were

coming here, they blocked out the Delta, subsequently they had to block out

another hotel and now they're moved into their third hotel. So the economic

benefit of this, the tax dollars that actually come back, help fund

cost-of-living issues. Right?

C. PARDY:

Yes.

S. CROCKER:

It's tourism dollars. If you

look at a tourism industry that brings in $1 billion, you quantify that down to

a 15 per cent HST and other spending. Tourism is very much a contributor to all

of our programs in the province.

C. PARDY:

Yeah. And just to conclude

on that, and I agree wholeheartedly, it's just the fact that when you make a

decision on something or you make a stand on something, it's nice to have the

information before you to know that you can –

S. CROCKER:

Totally.

C. PARDY:

– you've got the data. And

it's not always easy to get it, but at least we can get what we have.

A few

general introductory questions. I know I put the numbers down from last year, as

far as the numbers that are employed in the department, the vacancies and

retirements. So I do have those numbers to compare from last year, but maybe you

can provide them this year, Minister?

S. CROCKER:

MHA Pardy, I'll give you

exactly what I have in front of me.

C. PARDY:

Yeah.

S. CROCKER:

The total staffing component

currently is 279: 118 positions are filled; vacancy positions, May to September,

were 19; vacancies seasonal currently would be 142, bearing in fact that we are

about to ramp up so we would bring back our park staff, our Provincial Historic

Site staff, our visitor information staff and so on would start to come back in

the coming weeks. Long-term vacancies, we have four; we had 12 retirements;

total resignations, end of employment, there were 50; total new hires, new to

government, would be eight; and currently there are 13 13-weekers, primarily at

the Arts and Culture Centres.

C. PARDY:

We had 289 last year, 279

this year, and I know that your retirements are up, but I'm assuming that these

are just pending?

S. CROCKER:

Yes.

C. PARDY:

These will be filled. It's

not a matter of any change in the staffing.

S. CROCKER:

Yes, totally.

C. PARDY:

We know the impact of COVID.

Has the department done an analysis to find out really what the impact of COVID

has been in your department? Is there a figure? I know we can wildly speculate

and we know that it has been a significant impact, but did you ever come up with

a figure to know what the impact COVID caused on the –?

S. CROCKER:

On the industry you mean?

C. PARDY:

On the industry.

S. CROCKER:

Obviously, we wouldn't have

the final numbers coming out of 2020, calendar year 2022, and obviously

certainly not the fiscal year 2022, but it was huge. Operators report from being

absolutely closed to marginal. I would say 2022 was certainly better than 2021.

The recovery is continuing. We're in a much better position currently, I think,

than we were even a year ago, and again much, much better than we were two years

ago. It is looking very optimistic.

I think

last year we got back to about 25 per cent of the market. If you look at $1.12

billion in 2019, I think last year we got back somewhere around $250-million

mark. Interestingly, coming into just how it all worked out, the third quarter

last year from Statistics Canada, our restaurant/hospitality industry had fully

recovered in the third quarter. They were actually slightly ahead of 2019 in the

third quarter.

Again,

I would not trumpet that in front of hospitality operators who had suffered so

greatly, but there was a resilience. Once July 1 of last year happened and we

opened up to the rest of Canada, there was resilience, but the industry hasn't

fully recovered. I think it's done quite well, but full recovery is still a ways

off if you talk to the airline industry, which we do on a regular basis.

Destination Canada would tell you full recovery is probably in '24 or '25, but

this year I think we're very strategically positioned to have a very strong

year, and I would think be a leader in the country of in recovery.

C. PARDY:

I ask that number because I

wondered. You mentioned one quarter, so if you look at a little over $1 billion,

say $800 million would be a loss for that year. If you take the totality of

COVID and knowing where we're going and project, then I would think that we're

looking at multi-billion.

S. CROCKER:

Like industry impact over the two years?

C. PARDY:

Yes.

S. CROCKER:

I would hope it won't hit

multi-billion but the losses will be in a billion. I'm very comfortable in

saying that the losses over the two years, and even beyond because we're into it

a third year where stuff hasn't recovered fully. So, yeah, it would be in the

billions.

C. PARDY:

When I said multi-billion I was projecting too because it's going to take a

while for it to come back full.

S. CROCKER:

Totally and, unfortunately, you will probably be correct by the time it is all

said and done.

C. PARDY:

Unfortunately, yeah.

1.1.01,

the fluctuation in the Salaries there, I wonder if you can comment on that.

S. CROCKER:

The increase reflects the current salary plan for 2023-23, including additional

funding for a step increase and remaining approved wage increases.

C. PARDY:

Okay, good.

Transportation and Communications: We see the variation of that, and this is

probably going to be generic as we go through.

S. CROCKER:

It is.

C. PARDY:

The question one would ask is that if you discover that you can do it a little

more through Zoom and through the measures of we were forced to as a result of

COVID, will those measures be a factor going forward in our costs in

transportation and communications?

S. CROCKER:

I sure hope not. I say that because as a tourism/hospitality minister and

representing the industry that I represent, I want people to forget about Zoom.

I want people to start travelling again. I think it's important. There is value

in travelling.

Obviously, we will take advantage of ways to use Zoom going forward, but I would

be not properly representing my industry if I said we should continue to do

conferences by Zoom, because we need that industry to come back. One of the

concerns right now if you talk to groups like Destination St. John's and other

leaders in hospitality, we have to be out there more than ever, right now,

encouraging the convention industry to actually come back, because it's such a

huge industry.

If you

look at the multi-million dollar Convention Centre we have in downtown St.

John's and the benefits of that, quite frankly I really hope that people get

back to travelling. People get back to convention in person.

So as a

department, yes, we will leverage, we will do Zoom but we will also encourage

people to meet in person.

C. PARDY:

I wouldn't want to be on the

record as stating that I would suggest that conferences would be held by Zoom –

never. I was just thinking about your staff travel and you would be able to

reach out. So if you had a meeting with an operator or and MHA in the District

of Bonavista, quite possibly you could do that by Zoom as opposed to the travel

expense that would be to go.

S. CROCKER:

Absolutely.

C. PARDY:

So thus, if you see the same

line figures, you wonder whether that will be part or is planned going forward

or whether you see any marginal difference as to what it may be going forward.

S. CROCKER:

I think there will. I think

we'll see that forever and a day to some regard because, just on a personal

level, I do things now, quite frankly, on Zoom, where I didn't know what Zoom

was two years ago.

C. PARDY:

Me neither.

S. CROCKER:

Right, so absolutely. We

scrutinize our budgets very closely, I can tell you, but I think it is important

– even more so when we move in because you can never replace the value of

in-person. I think Zoom is okay but the idea of that sidebar conversation at the

side of the room in the evening does a lot for actually getting business done.

C. PARDY:

I agree wholeheartedly.

Operating Accounts, $22,000 increase.

S. CROCKER:

So, again, that would be –

the $22,700? Again, that is a decrease that reflects lower travel costs as a

result of COVID and, back to your point a minute ago, virtual meetings and

others that were postponed and cancelled.

CHAIR:

I remind the hon. Member

that his speaking time has expired.

1.1.01

to 1.2.03, MHA Brown.

J. BROWN:

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

1.2.01,

obviously there was an increase in Salaries there significantly over what was

budgeted and we're going to see an increase going forward. What was the

rationale for this?

S. CROCKER:

Sorry, MHA –

J. BROWN:

1.2.01.

S. CROCKER:

Okay, so salary line. The

increase reflects and obviously is the salary plan, including the creation of a

contractual position for Marble Mountain Development Corporation and some step

increases and additional remaining wage increases.

J. BROWN:

Okay. The contract is

currently ended now for the coming year. Because we are looking at $1.1 million

and now we're down to $972,000. Is that contract with Marble Mountain work

completed?

S. CROCKER:

No, it's not. That's the CEO

of Marble Mountain and we will continue that contract into this fiscal year.

J. BROWN:

Okay, perfect, thank you so

much.

1.2.02,

you budgeted $900,000 for Salaries but only spent $753,000, how many vacancies

resulted of this?

S. CROCKER:

1.2 …?

J. BROWN:

Point zero two.

S. CROCKER:

Line item?

J. BROWN:

Salaries.

S. CROCKER:

Salaries.

One.

J. BROWN:

Okay. One.

And

we're expecting to replace that individual in the coming year?

S. CROCKER:

Yeah. I'll turn it over to

the deputy. When we get into technical questions, I will turn it over to the

deputy.

J. BROWN:

No worries.

K. STONE:

Good morning.

In our

budget Estimates book, you'll see a salary line for every division that we have.

Throughout the year – we call it dynamic management, so this year, this is a

policy position that we know will be vacated. What we're going to do is leave

that one vacant for the year, but we're going to add a position under research

policy, so it will show up elsewhere. Because we've heard from the industry that

they want us to do more tourism research, so you'll see that in a couple of

places in the book, where there's a greater need in a different division, so the

salary dollars and position go there.

J. BROWN:

Okay, so we're looking at

just kind of like shifting around different places. Okay.

K. STONE:

Yeah.

J. BROWN:

No worries.

And

that's all my questions for this

section right now.

Thank

you.

CHAIR:

Thank you.

So is

the Committee ready for the question?

I'm

sorry, I'll go back to MHA Pardy, 1.1.01 to 1.2.03 inclusive.

C. PARDY:

Thank you, Chair.

Minister, on the Active Staff Complement, under Executive Support, there's a

contractual position there, 55557990, in your office. Just wondering about that

particular individual.

S. CROCKER:

What line was that, sorry?

C. PARDY:

Salary report.

There

were two positions there, Minister. Executive Support was contractual, $137,459,

and then under Admin Support Services –

S. CROCKER:

Okay. Yeah, sorry, it took

us a second. There's a Canada Games liaison as we prepare for 2025.

C. PARDY:

And those would be the two

positions? Admin Support Services as well is contractual, another position of

$70,916?

S. CROCKER:

That was the CEO or the

chair of Marble Mountain. This year that one is reflected in my answer to MHA

Brown a second ago. That position this year at Marble has been just brought into

– because obviously we didn't have the position last year and we funded it

through savings. This year we're budgeting it.

C. PARDY:

Okay, good.

Looking

at, in

section 1.2.02, Revenue - Provincial, last year was $18,900.

S. CROCKER:

So that's repayment of petty

cash and floats from the provincial parks at the end of the season.

C. PARDY:

Repayment of petty cash?

S. CROCKER:

Petty cash, so obviously

when the parks finished up their year, that's what they would have on hand in

petty cash.

C. PARDY:

Okay.

Just

clarification on the Operating Accounts, when you look at the variation that we

had, we budgeted from what was revised of last year. That was probably a 25 per

cent decrease. We had $131,400 budgeted and then to $100,000.

S. CROCKER:

Without going line by line,

broadly it's COVID impacts. It would be, for example, office supplies will be

down because there's less people actually physically in the office.

C. PARDY:

Okay.

S. CROCKER:

There was lower travel

costs. It just really reflects the impacts of, I guess, less activity due to

COVID.

C. PARDY:

My last question in this

section, Chair, would be under – you've added the Administrative Support, added

to Estimates this year, that category. I just wondered the rationale for doing

so. It's just got a placeholder there. I'm assuming the $100 that would be

included – that's 1.2.03, sorry, Minister. I should have started with that, my

apologies.

S. CROCKER:

I'm easily confused, so –

C. PARDY:

That's two of us.

S. CROCKER:

1.2.03?

C. PARDY:

1.2.03, I think that's new

for Estimates this year.

S. CROCKER:

That was the one that I

outlined previously, it's a placeholder in case we need it for a purchase of a

capital asset.

C. PARDY:

So when we looked at the

program funding

summary, this is it? This is the $100 that we were referencing

earlier?

S. CROCKER:

This is the $100 that would

have been in the – yes.

C. PARDY:

Yes.

S. CROCKER:

I guess to your other point,

to the other line that I didn't off the top of my head know, it will show up

here as well somewhere.

C. PARDY:

Exactly right.

Thank

you, Chair.

CHAIR:

Thank you, MHA Pardy.

Is the

Committee ready for the question?

Shall

1.1.01 to 1.2.03 inclusive carry?

All

those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

All those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

motion, subheads 1.1.01 to 1.2.03 carried.

CHAIR:

Can I get the Clerk to call

the next set of subheads, please.

CLERK:

Tourism, 2.1.01 to 2.2.02

inclusive.

CHAIR:

Shall 2.1.01 to 2.2.02

inclusive carry?

MHA

Pardy.

C. PARDY:

Thank you, Chair.

2.1.01,

I guess when it comes to Tourism, a topic that would be front and centre on a

lot of people's minds would be the rental car. I know the economy is (inaudible)

and I know the rationale for everything, but I think you had stated that we were

undertaking measures, the department was, to try to mitigate the lack of rental

cars for people booking.

I've

had an operator in Bonavista who stated that he figured that $6,000 is what

they've lost because of the people who have cancelled their accommodations due

to the lack of rental cars. So I didn't know if this would be a good time just

to be able to state as to what initiatives we've taken.

S. CROCKER:

So we've been extremely

active, and I think you recognized the fact that this is not a Newfoundland and

Labrador problem; it's not a Canadian problem.

C. PARDY:

No.

S. CROCKER:

It's at least a North

American problem. You only need to drive Kenmount Road to see there's a shortage

of cars.

We've

met regularly with the industry, and I have to give credit where credit is due,

Hospitality Newfoundland and Labrador has really taken the lead on this.

Carol-Ann and her staff in her division have very much been a part of that with

Hospitality Newfoundland and Labrador.

Industry is telling us that they anticipate challenges, but they're not putting

anything in availability this year that they don't actually have. They are still

anticipating some – as cars become more and more available – increase in

availability.

There

are other initiatives that we're working on that, hopefully, we'll have more to

say in the coming days, but, again, those initiatives are being lead by – and

thankful that it is – Hospitality Newfoundland and Labrador. But it's recognized

certainly as a challenge.

C. PARDY:

I'm assuming Hospitality

Newfoundland and Labrador may have reached out to the dealerships that we would

have?

S. CROCKER:

Yeah, we have turned over

every stone – or Hospitality Newfoundland and Labrador has, and I think they are

making progress and I would really hope that we'll hear something in the coming

days on some of the mitigating measures that they have been taking.

C. PARDY:

Okay.

I am

assuming that Transportation and Communication is generic all the way through

this program.

S. CROCKER:

Yeah.

C. PARDY:

Once you ask one –

S. CROCKER:

Yeah, it is just the COVID

impacts. And this one would reflect what we haven't been able to do as a

department. Normally we would attend 24 trade shows a year. Obviously, those

trade shows weren't happening last year or they were happening virtually, so

this just reflects our ability not to get out and travel.

C. PARDY:

There was $3 million increase in Purchased Services.

S. CROCKER:

This will become a theme

throughout the Estimates now. As I'm sure you would have heard, the $20-million

announcement last week in the budget for continued supports for this fiscal year

for the industry, this would be one of the pieces of that $20-million pie. This

includes some marketing supports, signage upgrades and improvements to visitor

information centre infrastructure.

I'm

going to ask the deputy to feel free to chime in any time that I – if I screw it

up or if I miss something, feel free to chime in here.

K. STONE:

No, that line (inaudible).

C. PARDY:

That is good. Can you

elaborate a little further on the signage upgrades?

S. CROCKER:

We are doing new point of

entry signs this year at Port aux Basques and Argentia and we plan on continuing

that. Quite frankly, our point of entry signs, I would call them boring compared

to what I have seen in other jurisdictions in the country. So we're looking at

upgrades to our point of entry signs and we're also looking at upgrades to our

regional destination signage. For example, what was called the Baccalieu Trail

is now called the Baccalieu Costal Drive. So those signs will be replaced.

Discovery Trail signs will be updated.

What

are they? The regional –

K. STONE:

Seventeen TODS.

S. CROCKER:

Yeah, the provincial TODS

for our sites and updates to our signs at our visitor information and provincial

historic sites.

C. PARDY:

Okay. So almost like a

complete overhaul of our signage on all.

S. CROCKER:

Well, the tourism part. We

did it last year, actually, with our provincial parks. We rebranded our

provincial parks last year so this is a continuation on that.

C. PARDY:

Good.

I am

assuming in the binder, Minister, that we get the Grants and Subsidies. That's

$21,000 in the Grants and Subsidies and I think last year, when we looked at it,

Destination Labrador probably had the chunk of that and then there was the nine

visitor –

S. CROCKER:

That's exactly it. It's the

DMOs and the –

C. PARDY:

The visitor information

centres.

S. CROCKER:

– the regional visitor

information centres that are not in our inventory.

C. PARDY:

Okay, good.

And can

you explain the amount voted there, the federal nearly $1 million and provincial

$80,000?

S. CROCKER:

It's our Atlantic Canadian

tourism agreement that we signed last year.

C. PARDY:

2.1.02 is developing

research capacity to support economic development and diversification

opportunities. Is it possible to give an example?

S. CROCKER:

I am sorry.

C. PARDY:

2.1.02, Sector Research.

S. CROCKER:

Okay, sorry.

C. PARDY:

And the heading, Minister,

it just says developing research capacity to support economic development and

diversification opportunities.

S. CROCKER:

So one of the commitments

this year that we've put forward and there's a piece in here – there's $275,000

from the $20-million budget announcement. I am looking to a specific but what

we've heard from industry is coming out of COVID, the industry is anticipating a

change in the traveller.

So we

really need to focus right now on understanding who that traveller is and we're

going to really do a strategic review to make sure that we're marketing to the

right tourist.

C. PARDY:

Okay, good.

S. CROCKER:

So one of the pieces that we

haven't fully completed, since 2016, is a full-on exit survey, so we're going to

do more regular surveying on a regular basis exit and we're planning a major

exit survey likely in 2023, because it's too late to do an exit survey in 2022.

We will do exit surveys in 2022, but a very substantial piece next year.

C. PARDY:

From a layperson's

perspective, that's a pretty daunting task because we really know that what we

have to offer, which part of the world that we want to be able to market to –

you may have an UNESCO geopark that opens up on the Bonavista Peninsula that all

of sudden it's a different clientele than what we've had maybe in the past.

That's a pretty complex task –

S. CROCKER:

For this group.

C. PARDY:

– for this group.

S. CROCKER:

Just to lay on to that,

coming out of COVID, there's another layer to understanding what it is that

makes a tourist comfortable. We want to prove it, but we feel very comfortable

what we're hearing from our operators is that the post-COVID tourist, we will be

very attractive to, wide open outdoor space. We just want to prove it. We want

to make sure, and to your point, we want to know who that tourist is and where

they're coming from.

C. PARDY:

I would wholeheartedly agree

with that because I would think that even the people that transferred to bring

their families back home, it was a rationale for them coming home to start with.

So I can see that on the travel basis as well.

S. CROCKER:

Yeah, we want to make sure

that the person we considered to be our target market preCOVID, is that still

our target market? I would argue it is, but I would argue that that target

market has grown due to COVID.

CHAIR:

Thank you.

remind the Member that his speaking time has expired.

2.1.01

to 2.2.02, MHA Brown.

J. BROWN:

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

question there now, after the investment with airports this past year to spur

activity, are we going to continue doing investments into increasing our rate of

travel or air traffic into the province?

S. CROCKER:

Yes, so again, in the

additional $20 million that was announced for this fiscal year, there is money

there for access. We share the access file with IET. So the money that you would

have seen announced recently for the three airports that applied was IET's money

– it's great spending someone else's money.

But

absolutely, I have regular calls with the airlines, PAL, Air Canada, West Jet,

Swoop and anybody else who'll take my call. We understand that air access is

extremely important – we don't have an accidental tourist in this province, so

we have to get them here.

Yeah,

we'll continue our relationship; I think it's encouraging to see what we've seen

this year. We've seen, you know, the entrance of Flair into Deer Lake; recent

conversations with them is they've been successful. They've actually added an

additional flight per week. We see Swoop coming into the province with two

routes in Deer Lake, one in St. John's. We see Lynx coming to St. John's. So

we're really seeing some new entrants into the market, which bodes well. But

it's important, too, that we maintain our relationships with the mainline

carriers, being Air Canada and WestJet and, at the same time, respecting the

authority of the airport authorities to do their work.

But,

no, the airline industry has changed and it has changed forever in a lot of

ways. I think, as a province, we're very fortunate, strategically, to have PAL

because it can fill in a lot of the voids that are going to be left. PAL now has

interline agreements, not only with WestJet but also with Air Canada. So a

strengthened relationship between PAL and Air Canada and PAL and WestJet helps

us.

Quite

frankly, I do recognize the costs of air access. It's challenging, but again

we've seen the new competition from these low-cost carriers.

J. BROWN:

Yeah.

S. CROCKER:

And in a recent conversation

I had with both – I think it was Swoop and Air Canada – they admitted that, I

guess, the increase of this new competition is going to actually balance some of

the fare costs that you may have seen without the increased competition.

But the

deputy just supported me quite well. In the $20 million, there is $2.7 for air

access, season extension and Indigenous tourism.

J. BROWN:

Okay, nice.

Now,

going to air travel, are we seeing anything coming in from the European market

or anything like that, or is it mostly going to be within the Canadian domestic

market right now?

S. CROCKER:

So I think it'll be domestic

and transborder this year.

J. BROWN:

Okay.

S. CROCKER:

Unfortunately, our direct

flight to Europe is not returning in 2022. I know St. John's did a very strong

effort with Air Canada to bring that back. I think at one point in time I met

with Air Canada, I think it was in November and they were – it was like that and

then Omicron came along and they actually said that they wouldn't return the

direct flight in 2022.

J. BROWN:

So I guess it's more of a

pause right now, than an actual –

S. CROCKER:

Absolutely, and that is

certainly something that we recognize. I think the components of the air

industry are important as well. I think when you see announcements like we did

last week with Bay du Nord, that will help our link to Europe. Because,

obviously, one of the factors in getting those direct flights for Europe has

always been the oil industry and rebounding confidence in the oil industry –

J. BROWN:

So you're looking at

piggybacking more or less.

S. CROCKER:

Right. So, hopefully, as

that industry starts to rebound, that will certainly help, I hope, with the air

access. Because air access is not just tourists, it's obviously business and

it's a bit of a pie.

J. BROWN:

Yeah, that's right.

Going

to this year, now, I know you guys have put a lot of money into the parks in the

last two years, during the COVID times. Have you seen an increase in traffic

into the parks significantly since the reinvestments?

S. CROCKER:

So our provincial parks in

2021 had rebounded, I think in a revenue number, back to $1.2 million in revenue

in parks, down from about, I think, preCOVID we were around $1.3 million. So,

quite frankly, yeah, the actual parks haven't suffered – sorry, in 2021, they

did. In 2022, the parks did rebound and we've made investments in the parks last

year. We'll complete those investments. There's some money in this year's budget

to complete the parks. We've bought new playground equipment for all the parks,

so there's some money here this year actually to get that installed. It's

accessible equipment. So that's an investment.

We've

also put new – each park now has a – I don't want to oversimplify it – learning

space.

J. BROWN:

Okay.

S. CROCKER:

We call it a campfire space,

but we brought learnings spaces back into the parks, because one of the things,

traditionally – our parks are used primarily by residents. And that's important.

It's important in the recreation aspect and more and more there's a niche for

our parks, because if you think about our provincial parks, they sort of cater

to that more rugged type tourist. You know, the backpacker, the –

J. BROWN:

Adventure tourism.

S. CROCKER:

Yeah, right. And I think

going forward strategically there will be a role for our parks in the

non-resident tourism industry, more so than ever when you see that adventure –

to your point the adventure tourism, the person that's going to take a fat-tire

bike and ride across the province, or hike lengths of trail around the province.

So we feel there's a piece for the provincial parks in our overall marketing

program. So we'll continue the investment.

J. BROWN:

That's good to hear.

Marble

Mountain: anyone interested?

S. CROCKER:

Without evidence, I would

say yes. Marble Mountain has had a very successful season, amid the challenges

that it's had. Obviously, we had some challenges with operations and, obviously,

there are still COVID challenges. The Black Mariah cable didn't get installed in

this past season. A lot of those challenges were around COVID and the people who

can actually install that cable had to come, I think, at least from somewhere in

the country, maybe from somewhere in the US. So challenges around it.

But

we're very hopeful that we can find somebody to take Marble Mountain and

actually turn it into the facility that it can be. Because it can be a

four-season facility. We're seeing it. Our season I would think is about to wrap

up from skiing, but we've done some interesting things there this year. We're

going to see the return this summer of, for example, weddings at the base of

Marble Mountain.

There

are things continuing to happen at Marble Mountain as we search for a buyer.

J. BROWN:

Perfect.

there are some people, I guess, kicking the tires, looking around and that kind

of stuff. But are we looking at any – I know there's an increase here. Are we

putting more investment money back into Marble Mountain until we find the right

person, the right glove to fit?

S. CROCKER:

Yes, absolutely. I think the

worst thing that we could do right now is actually just sort of let Marble

Mountain go cold, because we've seen this past winter what it can do. So,

absolutely, we'll continue.

I think

there's an investment of $1.3million, an infrastructure investment this year of

$1.3 million in Marble Mountain and there was a similar type investment last

year. Unfortunately, a lot of that is catching up on deferred maintenance, but

it's important we do it.

Look,

Marble Mountain, to operate, has to be safe.

J. BROWN:

Oh, yes.

S. CROCKER:

First and foremost. So we'll

continue to put money in to make sure Mable is safe and attractive. I've often

described the preparation of the sale or investment in Marble Mountain as if

you're going to sell your house or sell your car; you paint the house and you

blow up the tires on the car, and that's how we look at Marble Mountain. If we

just let it go cold, nobody will ever get a full appreciation for the value of

the asset.

J. BROWN:

Perfect.

Thank

you, Minister.

CHAIR:

Thank you and I will remind

the hon. Member his speaking time is expired.

2.1.01

to 2.2.02.

MHA

Pardy.

C. PARDY:

Just back a moment on the

air access, there is an air access committee. I think you said IET would be the

division that would be leading that or would –

S. CROCKER:

We now have taken the lead

on air access. That's one of the advantages, I think, of this new department

that we've – I say that in the same light I say that we worked very closely with

IET because they have great expertise. And I know she is not here in person this

morning but Carol-Ann, actually, came from IET where she was very much involved,

previously, with the air access file.

So her

and her counterpart at IET work hand in glove when it comes to air access, and I

would say they have a very strong and full appreciation for the industry.

C. PARDY:

Someone had told me one time

unverifiable and I probably should be very disappointed in repeating it, if it

is unverifiable, but the greatest shipment or what's being shipped out through

Oceanex are second-hand cars.

S. CROCKER:

Yeah.

C. PARDY:

And never gave it

consideration. I wouldn't have guessed it, but I thought that might be quite

plausible, knowing the demand for second-hand vehicles that are leaving the

province.

2.1.03:

I am assuming the variation in the Purchased Services is probably Come Home Year

and part of that $20 million as well, Minister?

S. CROCKER:

Again, it is. It reflects

support for the industry as they continue to recover. We're recognizing the fact

that industry is not going to recover. We're still listening to the industry on

some of the additional funding in the $20 million to see that it fits their

needs. But yes, that is exactly what it would be. It's support for the sector.

The $2.7 million is support for the sector.

C. PARDY:

Okay.

colleague had mentioned Marble Mountain. I know it might have been $1.2 million

in additional costs last year and I think the decking was discussed last year.

S. CROCKER:

Yes.

C. PARDY:

I know you have mentioned

the Mariah cable, and I am assuming that there are going to be further expenses

with making sure that it is in good shape to maintain our prospects of it being

attractive by some outside entity.

S. CROCKER:

Absolutely. Our focus now

going into the offseason for the hill structure would be to get the lifts back

in operation. I'll just throw this fact in. The last full season we would have

had was '18-'19 and revenue in '18-'19 was $3.2 million and revenue in '21-'22

to date, the date being April 2, of these numbers, was $2.8 million. So it goes

to show what the potential of Marble Mountain. It is almost fully recovered from

prepandemic.

C. PARDY:

Last year the DM had stated

that they were doing a new analysis, I think, of what the value of the Marble

Mountain was for the West Coast.

S. CROCKER:

Yes.

C. PARDY:

He had some old data that he

was going to supply I think, but you were going to do a new analysis of seeing

what the – is that new analysis under way and has it been completed?

S. CROCKER:

We will be able to complete

that now when we complete what would be a full regular season.

C. PARDY:

Okay.

S. CROCKER:

As you can tell from those

numbers, back to a revenue of $2.8 million, you can quickly derive from that how

many hotels and how many rooms and how many businesses in that region actually

benefit from Marble Mountain.

C. PARDY:

2.2.01, Pippy Park

Commission: It seems pretty all straightforward, but last year we saw a

reduction of $12,000 and the comment last year was $7,100 of that was attrition.

But I notice that we quickly in Estimates saw that we spent $29,000 more than we

estimated.

S. CROCKER:

2.2.01. That is –

C. PARDY:

Just wondering what caused

that increase there and why the fluctuation.

S. CROCKER:

It was negotiated wage

increases. There was $34,000 in negotiated wage increases and it was offset by

$12,700 in attrition.

C. PARDY:

Offset by twelve –?

S. CROCKER:

$12,700 of attrition. So

that's how you net the number down to $21,000.

C. PARDY:

Okay.

If you

can recall last year, we had a conversation about the Main River Waterway Park.

I think it might have been then probably the Member for Torngat, who might have

engaged you. It wasn't a closed book at that time, because I think you were

going to look at some exploration of a recapture, or exploration of.

S. CROCKER:

I think we've settled on

that that issue – I shouldn't say it's in the past, because it will always be an

issue and we always monitor it. But I think our plan going forward – and this is

my plan and, obviously, many, many functions in the department, but I believe

from my standpoint that the person that sits in my chair should not have the

ability, and I would hope to change the regulations at some point in time,

working with Environment, that the environmental process were to continue

without having a minister's ability to say, let's avoid the environmental

process.

The

minister currently has the ability to forego the environmental process. I don't

believe that's correct, personally. So my intention, if I'm here long enough, is

to remove that ability for the minister to actually override the environmental

process in the parks.

other departments, I'm not going to comment, but from this department's

perspective I think it's important that we balance that and make sure that we're

protecting our protected areas and make sure that all due diligence is done.

C. PARDY:

I would agree too. The

regulation needs to be amended, revisited. That would be a good thing to bring.

That's

not legislatively; that's just in the regulations.

S. CROCKER:

No, that's right. But as you

can appreciate in a department, it's a priority of ours, but it's been a very

challenging year administrating programs and lots of times over the past year –

and this is shout-out to the department again, they've had to be very nimble and

move quickly to administer programs that weren't foreseen, but no, absolutely.

C. PARDY:

Just a quick comment on the

board of Marble Mountain. Are there any residents from the West Coast, locals

that would be serving on that board?

S. CROCKER:

So quite recently we've –

fulfilling our obligation, the mayor of – sorry, I shouldn't say the mayor, the

Town of Steady Brook now occupy their seat on the board of Marble Mountain,

because they would have one. The City of Corner Brook has an appointee on the

board and it is currently on the IAC board? No, it's actually down, right?

OFFICIAL:

(Inaudible.)

S. CROCKER:

Yeah, so we have recent

recommendations from the IAC, so we'll be completing that board. Because one of

the things that we've heard from the West Coast, from the gentleman sitting

behind you, actually, is that we need to make sure that there's proper

representation from the communities as we move forward with any potential

divestiture or sale.

C. PARDY:

2.2.02, Purchased Services,

I know what you had budgeted last year to what was revised is significantly

more.

S. CROCKER:

Yeah.

C. PARDY:

And I know we've settled now

in between probably in a median between what was budgeted to what was revised.

S. CROCKER:

So your second question

first. The $971,000 reflects additional funding for infrastructure repairs and

projects, last year. I think it goes back to MHA Brown's question around

investments into parks.

This

years balance increase that you talked about, and again it somewhat comes back

to the question from MHA Brown previously, there is $666,000 for the

installation of those accessible playgrounds that we purchased in the last

fiscal year. There's $354,000 to get Butter Pot Provincial Park off diesel. That

would be our last provincial park on diesel, I think?

I'm

pretty sure Butter Pot would be our last – we took two provincial parks off

diesel last year and this will take Butter Pot off diesel.

There's

$40,000 budgeted for Hurricane Larry damages at Butter Pot. Obviously, that

would likely come back in the federal disaster assistance program but that's

years away before we actually get that, so we still have to do – there would be

a cost to us. Yeah, that sort of breaks down where those costs are.

There

are offsets here, because if you do the math on that, it's more than $422,000,

but there's a $600,000 reduction for projects completed, T'Railway work and –

sorry Bonnie, why am I –

B. STEELE:

It's the first phase of the –

S. CROCKER:

Oh, okay. So the first phase

of the Butter Pot solar project is done and some of the T'Railway repairs have

been done.

CHAIR:

Order, please!

MHA

Brown, do you still have questions on the Tourism?

J. BROWN:

(Inaudible) questions.

CHAIR:

Okay. And we'll just come

back to you MHA Pardy.

ahead MHA Brown.

J. BROWN:

Thank you, Chair.

The

only question I do have is about the Eagle River waterway. Where is that to in

your department?

S. CROCKER:

Yeah. So there's still

conversations, continuously, happening around Eagle River. You know, we're

having conversations with at least two Indigenous groups and we have to

respectfully complete those conversations. As you can appreciate, sometimes it

takes time to get that and get it done right. But it's an important piece for us

to actually get Eagle River protected with the enclaves, obviously. But it's

working – you can appreciate, it's slow going but it is something that we're

still committed to.

J. BROWN:

Perfect. Thank you.

That's

my only question on this section.

CHAIR:

Thank you.

MHA

Pardy, do you have any further questions under that subhead?

C. PARDY:

Thank you, Chair.

I don't

want you to leak anything from the Rothschild report now but would some of these

parks be considered for being divested from the government?

S. CROCKER:

No.

C. PARDY:

Okay. Note that.

S. CROCKER:

Well, as long as I sit in

this chair I have no –

C. PARDY:

No. That's good.

That's

the answer I was looking for.

S. CROCKER:

Yeah.

C. PARDY:

Butter Pot park is solar but

I guess that's the only park that we've moved into with solar initiatives?

S. CROCKER:

No, we've –

C. PARDY:

Several others – Lockston?

S. CROCKER:

So we've done solar where

we're on diesel. So the parks that didn't have the availability of electricity.

So we've –

C. PARDY:

Converted from diesel to

solar in those that didn't have electricity?

S. CROCKER:

Right. So we haven't gone to

solar where we had a supply of electricity. But where the parks were running on

diesel generations, we're moving to solar.

C. PARDY:

Okay. Good.

I think

last year we discussed a little bit about the reservation system and some issues

and hiccoughs with that. Knowing we're getting closer to camping season now, is

there any change in the reservation system?

S. CROCKER:

No, I think we've worked a

lot of the hiccoughs out of the reservation system. I'm confident we have.

Carol-Ann, I'm not sure if you're – Carol-Ann?

C. GILLIARD:

Hi, I'm here.

CHAIR:

Carol-Ann, can you hear us?

Can you hear Minister Crocker?

C. GILLIARD:

Yeah, I'm here.

S. CROCKER:

I think last year we bought

in the new reservation system when we revamped the website. So I haven't, quite

honestly, heard any immediate concerns around the new reservation system. But,

again, we'll certainly monitor that now as we get back into that season.

C. PARDY:

That's good for me, Chair,

in this section.

CHAIR:

Thank you.

Is the

Committee ready for the question?

Shall

2.1.01 to 2.2.02 inclusive carry?

All

those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

All those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

motion, subheads 2.1.01 through 2.2.02 carried.

CHAIR:

Can I have the next set of

subheads, please?

CLERK:

Arts and Culture, 3.1.01 to

3.1.07 inclusive.

CHAIR:

Shall 3.1.01 to 3.1.07

inclusive carry?

MHA

Pardy.

C. PARDY:

Thank you, Chair.

3.1.01,

$500,000 increase in Salaries. I say $500,000 now from what was revised last

year to where –

S. CROCKER:

Okay.

The

decrease reflects reduction in staffing costs for shows due to cancellations

throughout the majority of the year with COVID restrictions at the centres.

C. PARDY:

That makes sense.

The

Purchased Services increased by nearly $8 million this year – a whooping $8

million.

S. CROCKER:

Very proud of that.

C. PARDY:

It's going towards –?

S. CROCKER:

Programming. Again, it's

part of the $20 million investment. And there's also some infrastructure

upgrades as well and some one-time capital purchases.

C. PARDY:

Example?

S. CROCKER:

Gerry, the one-time capital

purchases is that lighting?

G. OSMOND:

That was the soundboard from

last year. So it's a balancing out.

C. PARDY:

Oh, okay, the soundboard.

That

soundboard was here in St. John's? Was it in Gander? Corner Brook?

G. OSMOND:

St. John's.

C. PARDY:

St. John's.

Are all

the Arts and Culture Centres now open and free flowing?

S. CROCKER:

Correct me if I'm wrong,

Gerry. Yes, we're back to –

G. OSMOND:

Yes, we're back to full

capacity.

C. PARDY:

Full capacity.

And

there are three, true? Three Arts and Culture Centres? Three big flagships ones,

three large ones along the Trans-Canada?

G. OSMOND:

There are six.

C. PARDY:

There are six in total.

G. OSMOND:

Yes.

St.

John's, Gander, Grand Falls, Corner Brook, Stephenville and Lab West.

J. BROWN:

I exist.

C. PARDY:

No, no that's excellent. I

have to travel to Lab West more often, Jordan.

3.1.02,

again an increase of a quarter of a million in Salaries.

S. CROCKER:

So the increase affects

obviously the salary plan, the funding for wage increases, step increases and

the Colonial Building is in there. So we're anticipating staffing at the

Colonial Building.

C. PARDY:

You're anticipating staffing

at the –

S. CROCKER:

At the Colonial Building.

C. PARDY:

Okay, yeah.

What

are the plans for the Colonial Building? Have we settled on anything? Now I know

we were, I think, entertaining some prospects going forward, but we haven't

settled on anything yet for the Colonial Building?

S. CROCKER:

So we're extremely excited

to get the Colonial Building completed. Obviously it's been a long process, a

very worthwhile process. So the Colonial Building, when it opens, will be a

display of our governance history, and I look forward to the opportunity and

I'll extend this invitation to all Members here this morning and to the House as

soon as it's safe to do so, we'll offer you a pre-tour to all Members of the

House so you can see what they've done down there.

It's an

amazing restoration, and until you actually get in there and appreciate our

political history, our governance history, it's quite the sight to see, and

understand how it interprets our history and how it's going to become – no

disrespect to the Bonavista Lighthouse – but it will quickly become our largest

provincial historic site in the province just geographically.

I think

it's going to be a very educational facility for people of the province, and I

think it's going to be a very interesting focal point for people actually

visiting the province. It's quite an amazing – I'm sure a lot of people here

know the stories – but to actually see it.

C. PARDY:

Have you done a cost

analysis of that going forward, of what it will cost? To maintain it? I see the

value in it. Don't misread my question, to know that I do see the value in it.

S. CROCKER:

Yeah, I think maybe Gerry's

best to speak to this, because we are reflecting costs this year of the

additional staffing. But there will be a cost to making the facility available.

Gerry, do we have a number on that specifically?

G. OSMOND:

We budgeted $175,000 for operating the facility, including staffing and program

supports. The maintenance of the building is transportation and infrastructure,

so we don't budget for that or do any projections in that respect. But from an

operational perspective, we feel that we're well positioned right now to open

this building and open it, to the minister's point, quite proudly.

C. PARDY:

I am assuming there is no

revenue to be gained from that. That is $175,000 on our heritage structure cost.

S. CROCKER:

Right, but it is like all

the revenue from all of our provincial historic sites.

C. PARDY:

Yes.

S. CROCKER:

Revenue goes into general

revenue. We carry the cost but the Treasury takes the gate.

C. PARDY:

But do you envision revenue?

You're going to have a fee that they would go in there?

S. CROCKER:

There will be a fee

associated, the same as the rest of our provincial historic sites. There would

be an entry fee.

C. PARDY:

Okay.

3.1.02:

$5.6 million in Allowances and Assistance in the revised budget of last year; 09

is that line.

S. CROCKER:

So that is the Artist

Support Program. Last year we did two iterations of the Artist Support Program

to support our artists as we went through COVID. There were 1,212 artists who

benefited from that program in 2021-2022 and again there was $5.6 million

distributed.

C. PARDY:

3.1.03: Grants and Subsidies

there, I assume that is all for ArtsNL and they would take that and they would

disburse it.

S. CROCKER:

Absolutely. That is just our

direct grant to ArtsNL. There was a small increase this year and that just

reflects some wage increases.

C. PARDY:

Okay.

3.1.04:

There is an increase of $130,000 in the Grants and Subsidies to The Rooms from

the budget last year to this year.

S. CROCKER:

Again, that reflects

negotiated wage increases. I think the negotiated wage increases were $181,000

but it is offset by $34,000 in attrition and operational expense reductions.

C. PARDY:

Okay. So you had stated that

the attrition last year was $17,000. I think what was stated last year was

$17,000.

S. CROCKER:

So this year it is at

$34,000.

C. PARDY:

We had an increase of $7.5

million expenditure last year. What contributed to the – okay, that's what you

just referenced with the –

S. CROCKER:

There's a $1.3 million

increase.

C. PARDY:

Yes.

S. CROCKER:

There's some funding in

there for the Colonial Building, because they manage the Colonial Building

restoration for us. Fair, Gerry?

OFFICIAL:

Financial –

S. CROCKER:

The financial

administration. They work with us on the Colonial Building.

C. PARDY:

Okay.

3.1.05:

I'm assuming the list of those receiving the grants and subsidies under the

Heritage Foundation of Newfoundland and Labrador would be in the binder,

Minister?

S. CROCKER:

If not, it would be on their

website. They would be the same as ArtsNL. We don't administer –

C. PARDY:

Provide it to them and they

disburse.

S. CROCKER:

They disburse. We're not

involved in their disbursement. I know with ArtsNL, their disbursement is

readily available on their website, and I would think Heritage NL wouldn't be

any different.

C. PARDY:

Okay.

3.1.06,

Celebrate NL Inc., I'm assuming that's the Come Home Year?

S. CROCKER:

It is, but it's Come Home

Year and beyond.

C. PARDY:

Okay.

S. CROCKER:

We see a role for Celebrate

NL as we move forward in event attraction. This agency will work with our local

DMOs, but also with Destination Canada. We see the role for Celebrate NL to be

things like the announcement yesterday around NASCAR.

C. PARDY:

Okay.

S. CROCKER:

So, it's really about

developing partnerships and it gives us an added amount of flexibility when it

comes to partnerships.

C. PARDY:

So Celebrate NL Inc., that

is the department, or is there another group?

S. CROCKER:

I would have tabled a report

yesterday on Celebrate NL. Celebrate NL is an incorporation, but it resides in

the department; the structure is within the department. You would find similar

organizations in six other jurisdictions in Canada. It adds flexibility, and it

really adds an opportunity for us for partnership that we normally wouldn't have

as a line department.

CHAIR:

Thank you, Minister. Thank

you, MHA Pardy.

3.1.01

to 3.1.07, MHA Brown. When MHA Brown finishes his questions, we'll break for 10.

J. BROWN:

Thank you, Chair.

first question is: Do I get to sit on the couches in the Colonial Building? Am I

allowed to sit on the couches?

S. CROCKER:

Absolutely.

J. BROWN:

Thank you, Minister.

S. CROCKER:

As soon as they're complete.

I was looking forward to this question because I might have a quote or two here

from John Fisher. But, no, I won't get into that.

J. BROWN:

No, but I do appreciate the

invitation, though, and I will take you up on that offer.

S. CROCKER:

Absolutely. And, quite

frankly, you do get to sit on the couches and also, quite frankly, the couches,

if I'm correct, came in just a little bit above estimates. There was no surprise

to us at the cost.

Proudly, one of the things we found – and I'm going to take the liberty now that

you've opened the door – one of the things that we've found in the restoration

of the Colonial Building – and we're very proud of it – is the amount of

heritage carpenters that we are building, you know, creating in this province.

Because it's a very specialized trade. This is not a piece of furniture, and you

will see and others when you go in the Colonial Building. And if you look at

other successful regions of the province when it comes to restoration, it's very

skilled to do this work.

J. BROWN:

Yes. And I guess it acted as

kind of a gateway for apprenticeship for a lot of people in this province now to

hone their craft.

S. CROCKER:

Absolutely. And it's being

done by a Newfoundland company. A lot of the restoration – I forget the numbers,

Gerry could probably rhyme them off, but we were really pleased, that as the

Colonial Building has come along over the last decade, we were able to find the

expertise here in this province to actually do the heritage carpentry work that,

I think in the early days, it was anticipated that this work would primarily be

done by outside companies, but it hasn't been. We found the expertise here in

the province.

J. BROWN:

Okay. No, that's actually

really good to hear about, because I know it's not easy to find something like

that, but it's great that we learned from that.

Heritage sites right now operating, are we putting any money back in – other

than the Colonial Building – are we looking at any upgrades or extra work or

anything to restoration of heritage sites across the province?

S. CROCKER:

So we were fortunate enough,

last year, in preparation for Come Home Year – someone's going to tell me a line

here in a second – to actually be able to secure some additional funding through

savings throughout the year to do some work. We've done work at Commissariat

House. We've done some work in Point Amour with the lighthouse. We completed an

engineering study in Heart's Content around coastal erosion and we completed an

engineering study at the Bonavista Lighthouse.

So we

were able, last year, to do that and, again, through that $20 million this year

we're going to continue on. I guess to continue on from last year's investment,

this year again through that $20 million, we are able to secure additional

investment for phase two of the structural repairs to the Cape Bonavista

Lighthouse; phase two of the repairs to the Trinity Mercantile Building;

shoreline and building upgrades at the Heart's Content Cable Station; exhibit

cases at the Colonial Building; and phase two of the building upgrades at the

Mockbeggar Plantation. So we'll see continued phase two work this year at those

sites and Provincial Historic Sites.

J. BROWN:

Last summer, myself and my

family, we played tourists and we actually tried to get to as many historic – we

had our punch card, we tried to get to every historic place we could possibly

go. We did pretty good. Actually, I even darted out his way and actually had a

really good time out there.

They

are fantastic resources in this province and I think more people, locally,

should appreciate them because they're fantastic.

But my

question is: Is there any anticipation of adding any more Historic Sites to the

roster?

S. CROCKER:

No, I don't think there are.

Obviously, we'd always take suggestion of Provincial Historic Sites, but I

think, first and foremost, we need to find a way to continue our commitment to

the ones we have.

J. BROWN:

Okay.

S. CROCKER:

And it's been, I can tell

you, it's been challenging. We've been lucky in the last two years to find a way

to actually get some money in and the continuation again this year to get some

phase two work done on some big projects. I think the Bonavista project this

year is somewhere in the vicinity of a million dollar – there's that much work

required.

J. BROWN:

Okay.

That's

right. They are very old, fragile buildings and sites. I can expect they get a

little expensive. But I just thought I'd ask.

Another

question is the Newfoundland and Labrador Arts Council, I know in the last

number of years you guys did increase the budget item for them, but has there

been a completed review of their actual need and what – maybe X-number extra

dollars might put them in a new tier where they can do something that would

probably generate more revenue. Have we ever bothered to take them and review

what they do and what possibilities they could do with extra budgeting?

S. CROCKER:

They have a very strong

board. I would think that they're constantly looking for ways to leverage their

funding. I think they do a very good job of that. Now more than ever, I think

it's sadly ironic, in a good way, that we've increased their funding to $5

million at some of the worst time for them, for artists. There's an additional

$5 million this last year in the Artist Support Program.

It's very important, right now, that we're there to

continue the supports for artists. In my opening remarks I talked about, of the

$4 million that we've allocated through the Cultural Economic Development

Program for Come Home Year, over $2 million of that again is going directly to

artists in their fees.

So, you

know, we're committed to artists going forward because they're such a piece of

the tourism fabric in this province.

J. BROWN:

I know sometimes, like you

said, you give them $5 million but they say if we had $5.1 million we could do

this or that kind of thing.

S. CROCKER:

I don't think – to my

understanding, I'm sure any organization would always say we can take more, but

we've grown it to $5 million from, I think – was it $2 million, Gerry? What was

$2 million a few years back in very tight economic times, but I think that's a

reflection, again, of how much they actually contribute to the economy.

J. BROWN:

Absolutely.

The

Rooms Corporation, anything on the horizon for The Rooms? Are we looking at any

other projects there or anything new or developing that we're …?

S. CROCKER:

So you're going to see some

presentations this summer from The Rooms around Come Home Year. They have a

series of activities that they're going to undertake for us. There may be a

Rooms partnership or two coming.

One of

the things we were able to do last year was we actually – The Rooms, typically,

gets $75,000 a year for art acquisition. We were able, last year, as we moved

through COVID, to find an additional $75,000 for them for art acquisition, last

year. That acquisition had a primary focus on Indigenous art.

We have

some stuff that we will talk about in the coming days about The Rooms and their

role that they are going to play in Come Home Year.

J. BROWN:

Perfect.

The

Heritage Foundation of Newfoundland and Labrador, a soft spot for me, I used to

be with a Heritage Site in Labrador. Have we ever done a review of their actual

funding or anything that we could actually increase to probably preserve more

heritage in this province? I know that there's been a big push outside of there

about oral history and stuff like that – preserving that. Is there anything that

we're looking at to maybe help them achieve that goal of collecting all of our

oral heritage?

S. CROCKER:

Well, I think what you would

find is through our Come Home Year community and culture program, there is

additional heritage funding this year, things that will have a long-lasting

value.

Heritage is a tough one. There is no doubt about it. I'd be the first one to say

that, in the way, it is harder to qualify heritage lots of times than it is

arts, as an example. But it's extremely important to us to maintain the

heritage.

If you

think about The Rooms, The Rooms is a big collector of our heritage. If you

think about out Provincial Historic Sites, they capture our heritage, but we're

always open to suggestions.

J. BROWN:

Alright. Perfect.

Celebrate NL Inc., how is that formed? Is that an agency, board or commission?

Where does that fall in?

S. CROCKER:

It will be, I guess for lack

of a better text, I don't want anyone to get visions of grandeur here, it will

be a Crown corporation that will be housed within the department.

J. BROWN:

Okay.

S. CROCKER:

That will allow us an

ability – again, as I said a moment ago – partnerships, flexibility. I guess, if

you look at the iterations of it in different jurisdictions, for want of a

better word, you could call it a provincial DMO.

J. BROWN:

Okay. Sort of like

Destination Canada, we're having this – something like that.

S. CROCKER:

So the role of Celebrate NL

will be to work with Destination Canada to work with the NASCARs of the world or

other events that we want to attract. We were very successful, I don't know,

eight or 10 years ago, in attracting – if you think back to the Brier, the

Junos, those types of events, they bring tremendous opportunity.

J. BROWN:

We're expanding that now.

S. CROCKER:

We're going to be very

active again in the event attraction market.

J. BROWN:

Okay. Perfect.

Thank

you, Minister.

CHAIR:

Thank you.

I would

just ask the Committee Members to hold their thoughts and their questions until

we finish our break.

Carol-Ann, can you hear me okay?

C. GILLIARD:

I can hear you, yes.

CHAIR:

Okay. You can put the kettle

on and get yourself a tea biscuit.

S. CROCKER:

You can hear Carol-Ann, can

you?

CHAIR:

Yes. Put in your earpiece, Steve.

Carol-Ann, you can put on the kettle, we'll be back in 10.

S. CROCKER:

I don't have one. Sorry, Carol-Ann.

C. GILLIARD:

That's okay. I'll put the

kettle on.

CHAIR:

We'll break for 10, please.

Recess

CHAIR:

Order, please!

If I

can have Committee Members and staff take their seats, we'll be ready to go.

You can

hear us okay again now, Carol-Ann?

C. GILLIARD:

Yes, I can hear you.

CHAIR:

Okay, thank you.

Back

with MHA Pardy for 3.1.01 to 3.1.07 inclusive.

ahead, Sir.

C. PARDY:

Thank you, Chair.

I just

want to make one comment on the chairs at the Colonial Building. Because I think

I may have been quoted in the media at that time saying out in front about the

cost of those chairs. The contention at that time, and I understand the fact

that you would look at and we want to create a capacity for heritage carpentry –

I know that we value every heritage carpenter that we have in Trinity and

Bonavista and all those areas. The only contention that I had made at that time

was the fact that maybe there is existing Victorian-era furniture that is out

there that we could get.

I know

that I had sent along, to the department, one lady who was selling a piece of

furniture for a cost of $1,000. I had passed that along to the department to

inform the department that it did exist. The picture was wonderful to

investigate, but I think the investigation was going to occur during the

summertime, and it might have been a seasonal employee or someone was going to

go out and check out what it was. I would think it was a businessperson then,

who bought it in Clarenville, this piece of Victorian-era furniture, and what a

wonderful piece of furniture it was.

So my

only contention at that wasn't to be on the Opposition side; it was the fact

that you'd almost explore to see what was out there. Was it ever conceivable

during the riot that there might still be existing furniture that belonged

there?

S. CROCKER:

I'm just going to turn

around to our resident historian, the man that if anybody ever needs a history

lesson or whatever, and I've known a lot of people know a lot about history and

Victorian furniture and all of that kind of stuff. This guy does this for fun:

Gerry Osmond.

G. OSMOND:

Thank you, Minister.

C. PARDY:

Talk about being put on the

spot hey, Gerry.

G. OSMOND:

Absolutely.

terms of the chairs that we are developing and building, they are custom made

for the spaces. It's not a matter of taking existing Victorian furniture and

putting it in the spaces; the spaces are quite unique. If you haven't been in

the building, the offices are quite small and the Chambers are quite large. So

they're designed for the spaces. They're designed for the time period that we're

restoring it to, specifically. That's why procuring a piece is not as simple as

taking someone's Victorian furniture and putting it in the space. The pieces

that we are building are a part of that strategy.

terms of what was left in the riot or left from other parts of the building,

this building is a funny story in that its maintenance is very poorly

documented. Probably the most poorly documented maintenance of heritage

building, I would say, anywhere. That's apparently why it's taken us so long to

restore this building is because of the unknowns and the lack of documentation

on what has been done and what's there.

Furniture-wise, we still have the Clerk's table. We still have the Speaker's

chair. We still have podiums from the House of Assembly – 40 of them. So we have

an inventory of furniture from that building that we are going to put back in

the building, but other pieces have come and gone over the years, disappeared.

Some have been left in the building.

I know

when I first got involved in the project 13 years ago, the House of Assembly was

full of furniture that didn't belong in the building and was just stored there,

so we had to relocate that furniture. Some went to the Harbour Grace courthouse.

At the time, it was more judicial history of furniture. So it's a complicated

process, but to your question about the riot, a lot of things left the building

during the riot – prime minister included.

C. PARDY:

Gerry, thanks so much.

You

think sometimes when you engage in conversation and when you do, you find your

little tidbits of information that stick and make an impression upon you. I

can't recall in the past when this broke in the media, custom made for spaces.

Because that would have been a significant factor.

G. OSMOND:

Yeah. If –

C. PARDY:

I can understand that and my

mind is going now to say listen, every piece is not going to fit what space

you've got to create it for. That I can relate to, but I don't know if I missed

that back in the time –

S. CROCKER:

Yeah, and listen, it's all

good. To your point about the space, I didn't truly appreciate it until the

first time I went down there, got up on the second floor and I walked into – and

I knew we had a Green Chamber and a Red Chamber. But I forgot that we had a

Senate. We were the Parliament of Canada, Green Chamber, Red Chamber.

When

you go in, you walk in and you see the floors were painted. One Chamber the

floor was painted red, and the other Chamber the floor was painted green, you

really get appreciation for – and I tell you, I'm assuming everybody in this

Chamber has some affection to government and politics, but when you go in down

there and see the way we've restored it, the way it's been restored, it's quite

wonderful.

C. PARDY:

Whatever we embark upon, we

need to do it right.

S. CROCKER:

Absolutely.

C. PARDY:

And that's the bottom line.

Whether it's a new school construction, do it right and do it with vision to

know where we're going to be. That all comes from the people sitting down and

for those on the outside understanding what that vision and what that plan would

exist.

Just

before I conclude, Mr. Chair, you had mentioned about the artists, the

musicians. They're probably amongst our greatest assets that we've got in this

province. There is no doubt about that. One thing, in the limited travel that

I've done, I've always looked and compared to what we have on the Island

compared to where I may be at that particular time. In my own analysis, no

comparison. So when we talked about what we have and marketing what we have,

there's no doubt for the musicians and the heritage structures to be included,

Minister, as you had stated to be out in front. But we've got lots that we can

certainly market to make this place an attractive destination for others.

S. CROCKER:

I'm going to take liberty

for a second. If you think about – and I think our marketing agency hit the nail

on the head this year as we recover from COVID. If you look at the campaign this

year, Leave No Song Unsung, it's a play on bucket list, but it's also a play on

what we have that other provinces don't have.

I would

argue that there are very few places – I don't think there is anywhere in North

America – that has a cultural, artist industry piece that we have. I think we

need to elevate it to the level that it needs to be at, because I think it's how

we sell ourselves going forward.

C. PARDY:

And I'd add storytellers.

S. CROCKER:

Absolutely.

C. PARDY:

One thing as an MHA that I

find, just going around in my own district, I've discovered some wonderful

storytellers. I know that's a tribute that we've had as a culture and as a group

on the Island.

S. CROCKER:

I think if we were to vote

here in the House of Assembly, you would probably qualify as the best

storyteller, because there's very, very –

C. PARDY:

Flattering me now.

S. CROCKER:

Very clearly when you speak,

you often tell a story. I would congratulate you as being the number one

storyteller in the House.

C. PARDY:

My mother used to always say

one of my faults is I talk too much.

Mr.

Chair, that concludes.

CHAIR:

Thank you.

assume you're finished as well, MHA Brown?

Thank

you.

If the

Committee is ready for the question, shall 3.1.01 to 3.1.07 carry?

All

those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

All those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

motion, subheads 3.1.01 to 3.1.07 carried.

CHAIR:

Can I ask the Clerk to call

the next set of subheads, please.

CLERK:

Film, Television and

Recreation, 4.1.01 to 4.2.03 inclusive.

CHAIR:

Shall 4.1.01 to 4.2.03

inclusive carry?

MHA

Pardy.

C. PARDY:

Thank you, Chair.

Newfoundland and Labrador Film Development Corporation:

Son of a Critch – this is the end of

the season, the last show?

S. CROCKER:

The finale is tonight.

C. PARDY:

There's a lot to get excited

about when we look at the productions that occur here. I keep defaulting back to

winding my head around as far as the cost-benefit analysis to where we are. We

can throw the numbers out, we can talk about this or that and you say well,

listen, but people need to be informed as to where we are and how it generates

the money of which we desire.

I would

say to you that we would garner, we would capture the vast majority of

Newfoundlanders and Labradorians if we had the ability to be able to disclose as

to what we do. I know the sensitivity in that and I know, I think to say, well,

there is only so much you can disclose. There is some you probably can't because

it might devalue any negotiations or what you would have on going forward.

But it

would be sure nice to see an in-depth cost-benefit analysis of this industry.

Remember, if we're going to invest in an equity stake – we know where we stood

with not investing in an equity stake in offshore oil and gas; I think this

particular government is out with any oil and gas, back in some time, that they

weren't going to invest in an equity stake. That was my understanding.

The

only thing is the film industry is one that we've delved into. So the only thing

I would say is that would be nice to have, as complicated as it is, but at least

to make some efforts to know that we can better communicate the benefits

financially for the province.

commit $10 million annually to the film industry?

S. CROCKER:

Yes.

C. PARDY:

That's our commitment.

S. CROCKER:

That's the equity stake.

I'll just give you a few that we would have taken equity in the last year. We

would have taken equity, obviously, in

Son of a Critch , Hudson & Rex ,

SurrealEstate ,

Astrid & Lilly Save the World . There

is also a subset of, I guess, smaller motion pictures.

To your

point, it's very hard in lots of ways to quantify the spend of the industry.

There is no real way to quantify what it actually contributes to other

industries. I'll give you a prime example:

Rock Solid Builds . Anybody who

watches Rock Solid Builds on Thursday

nights – and, again, 10:30 on Saturday mornings; that's when I watch it because

I am not up that late on Thursday night.

Rock Solid Builds is a one-hour ad, twice a week, for this province. There's

no way to ever quantify what Rock Solid

Builds is doing to the tourism industry, or the intro to

Hudson & Rex when the drone or

whatever comes in over St. John's Harbour.

You're

right, it's really hard to quantify. We're very proud of where we have gotten

with the industry. We haven't seen it yet, but if you look at the cover this

year of our tourism guide, it's Cape St. Mary's. The reason we chose Cape St.

Mary's this year is it's going to get to play – when Disney releases

Peter Pan & Wendy , we're going to see

Newfoundland and Labrador in Peter Pan

and Wendy as Neverland.

We need

to leverage that as much as Disney will allow us to leverage. Obviously, yeah,

it's Disney; they're not exactly going to roll over for us. You would have seen

it last summer in your district –

C. PARDY:

Oh yes.

S. CROCKER:

– the economic benefit, what

that does and what it will mean for years to come. When you see the scenes of

that movie of Wendy landing in Neverland, she's landing out in Dungeon Park out

in – is it –

C. PARDY:

Cape Bonavista, out in the

Dungeon.

S. CROCKER:

Yeah. So people will ask

where is that, and we need to find ways to market that.

But to

your point, it's very hard to quantify. We do our best to quantify it, but we're

confident that it's a strong investment and will pay dividends for years to

come. I think if you were to ask the owners of the Duke of Duckworth are they

still benefiting from Republic of Doyle ,

which is what, 10, 15 years ago, there are still people going to the Duke of

Duckworth because it was the bar on

Republic of Doyle 15 years ago or whenever.

C. PARDY:

My last note on that, I know

it's difficult to quantify, but I know that we can probably do enough to

quantify it to give substance to people to know that this is bringing a return.

S. CROCKER:

Yeah. We've been trying by

actually getting out to sets and inviting media to sets. When you get on a set –

I don't know if you've had the opportunity, but if you haven't, we can certainly

arrange for you and MHA Brown sometime this coming season to take in a set – you

will get a much deeper appreciation for what it is – everything from catering to

the carpenter to the electrician. There's a great opportunity here for

tradespeople. It's a very unionized industry that pays good wages.

C. PARDY:

When Moya Greene stated in

her report that $48,000, I think, was the cost per actor that would be to the

Island. I guess that's what she was assuming but she didn't look at what the

benefits would be.

S. CROCKER:

I don't accept Moya Greene's

C. PARDY:

That figure.

S. CROCKER:

– figure and impact to the industry. I think one thing about the Greene report –

and I think we've been clear from day one – is we will take advice, but again,

we'll make the decisions on what we feel is right. Again, I respectfully

disagree on her take on that industry.

C. PARDY:

Okay, but she mentioned I

think the lack of return from past productions. I don't know how much analysis,

but we're all back to quantifying again for the people to know.

S. CROCKER:

Absolutely, and it's very

tough.

C. PARDY:

So we were all hinged in the

public in Newfoundland and Labrador, and Labradorians looking at from when PERT

was coming out, because we knew how significant it was. When it comes out, and

then she throws this out, and here we are looking at an industry which you have

a lot of confidence in, and I think most of us do, to enjoy, then all of a

sudden you can see how conflicting people are with it.

S. CROCKER:

It absolutely leads to, I

guess, a skepticism. I think it's incumbent on all of us, because I think we all

believe in the industry. I seen skepticism yesterday around the NASCAR

announcement. Every time we do one of these things it's a skepticism, but again,

the revenue that's generated from these operations and the jobs is what helps

pay for a lot of the services that we need in the province.

C. PARDY:

Exactly.

4.2.01, the Grants and Subsidies, I'm assuming maybe I have that now listed here

– the listing so we have $10 million –

S. CROCKER:

Oh, yes.

C. PARDY:

Grants and Subsidies, sorry.

4.2.01, Minister,

section 10.

S. CROCKER:

4.2.01?

C. PARDY:

Yes.

OFFICIAL:

Under Sport and Recreation,

Minister.

S. CROCKER:

4.2.01, Sport and

Recreation, yes, Sir.

C. PARDY:

Grants and Subsidies,

section 10.

S. CROCKER:

So the $925,000 reflects

adjustments for the 2025 Canada Summer Games funding, the increase of $1 million

offset by forecasted adjustments of $75,000 for funding, and there is some

funding in here in 2022-2023 for biannual Newfoundland and Labrador Games,

regional qualifiers.

where we've had to delay the games in Bay Roberts and the games in Gander, we've

reached agreements with the host committees for both games to actually do some

regional qualifiers for them in their perspective towns and regions to actually

offset some of the disruption and prepare for their games. Both games will be in

2024. Someone throw something at me if I'm wrong, but both games Bay Roberts and

Gander will now be in 2024.

C. PARDY:

Can you speak to the

revenues there in that same

section 01, 02 there. The $378,000 federal money or

the federal contribution?

S. CROCKER:

Yeah, I'll turn that one

over to Bonnie.

C. PARDY:

Okay.

B. STEELE:

That's the funding for the federal bilateral agreement on sport participation.

C. PARDY:

Okay, all right.

And the

provincial revenue, the $337,500? I know it was down during COVID, but I'm

assuming that's revenue that we take in from the –

B. STEELE:

The pools.

C. PARDY:

Oh, from the pools. Strictly

the pools, because the other athletic structures we have like Crosbie Road,

there is no revenue coming from –

S. CROCKER:

So no, Crosbie Road operates

as a board, so Crosbie Road just gets its operating grant from us.

C. PARDY:

Okay. Just pools alone.

Good.

I've

got 45 seconds and I might end. If we're going to become the country's

healthiest population in 2030, I don't think the physical activity tax provision

that we've got in is really going to cut that. It would be nice to see a vision

as to how we're going to achieve it, if it is going to be a plan. That may not

be your department –

S. CROCKER:

It's not –

C. PARDY:

– but you're part of it.

S. CROCKER:

Absolutely. I think that's

why from our perspective in the department and – we see ourselves in the Health

Accord, to your point – obviously, we don't have that tax credit, but I think in

my opening remarks I alluded to the investment through what we did just at the

end of last fiscal year with Active NL and that program was oversubscribed – a

tremendous amount of interest around trails.

Trails

do two things: They help us get out and be healthy ourselves, but we've also

found again – and we've heard this from the industry – our market, our tourism,

our non-resident market, one of the things they're looking for is trails.

C. PARDY:

Yes.

S. CROCKER:

You would see it, obviously,

in your region – totally. We see a focus there and one of the things that we

will focus on going forward through, you know, the Community Healthy Living

program or an Active NL program, will be trail development. Because people want

trail development. It sort of gets at two things in one; it offers up a very

low-cost activity for residents, and it offers up a tourism product for

non-residents, that they're looking for.

CHAIR:

Thank you, Minister.

MHA

Brown – 4.1.01 to 4.2.03 inclusive.

J. BROWN:

Thank you, Mr. Chair

I have

a couple of question there. The first is: Can I get a list of the companies who

benefited from the NL Film Development Corporation and the dollar amounts each

company received?

S. CROCKER:

You mean production company?

J. BROWN:

Yes.

S. CROCKER:

That's something we can

certainly give you.

J. BROWN:

Perfect, I really appreciate

that.

I do

want to echo my colleague's thing, and I agree with what you said too, that the

film and television industry in this province has – I know COVID took the legs

out from underneath it for a little while, but even leading up to this, we've

been on a steady increase of obviously production and stuff like that.

Republic of Doyle was probably one of

the biggest breakthrough ones we had in this province, and now we're filming,

what, triple what we were doing in that time area.

S. CROCKER:

Absolutely. If you look at

this coming season, with the commitment,

Hudson & Rex has an expanded

schedule in 2022.

Son of a Critch was just extended. We

have some other things happening in 2022. In the budget last week, Minister

Coady would have announced the All Spend tax credit. That's very important when

we look at attracting motion picture work. Obviously, there's no spend

associated with the All Spend tax credit unless we actually get people here.

J. BROWN:

Yeah, that's right. That's

fair.

S. CROCKER:

So yeah, and it opens up –

the All Spend tax credit gives, I guess, a tool in our toolbox that we never had

before and it attracts a different industry other than our local production

industry. This would be more of a motion picture type industry, show of the week

kind of stuff. And there is considerable industry for that out there as well.

But tremendous opportunities.

J. BROWN:

I know you probably can't

disclose, but has there been more people knocking at your door about filming in

this province in the last year or so?

S. CROCKER:

Absolutely, because we've

been knocking at their doors. So we're doing both. I sat down back in November,

I think, along with the Premier, met with the Motion Picture Association of

Canada. I think subsequent to that meeting, we had follow-up meetings with some

of the major studios. We will certainly entertain their knocks on our door, but

we're also going to be banging on theirs.

J. BROWN:

Okay, perfect. I'm glad to

hear. I really appreciate that.

Over on

the recreation side – I think this probably comes up every time we meet. In

Labrador West and Happy Valley-Goose Bay, and the North and South Coast

especially, travelling for competition is getting really expensive. We're

hosting the provincial atom hockey in Labrador West, but we can only get I think

it was four teams to travel up there, to actually participate.

seems to be getting harder and harder with the increased cost of travel for,

say, residents of the Island to travel to Labrador to compete or for residents

from Labrador to go to the Island to compete. Something needs to be reviewed

there. It is getting really considerably expensive and fundraising, especially

during COVID and stuff, has become a lot harder.

I know

there used to be a program, years ago, about helping people travel to and from

the different geographical regions of the province, but it is getting a lot

harder. I was just wondering if this is something for consideration in your

department to go back and look into is trying to get sport teams to meet again,

basically.

S. CROCKER:

Yeah. We can certainly take

that away and appreciate your raising it because it's not something that, you

know, I'll be honest, wasn't top of mind, but something that we can certainly go

back and have a look at because it does certainly warrant some investigation.

Because

one of the things we want to do is make sure, and especially leading into the

opportunities we have in – obviously, we'll be sending teams to Niagara Falls in

early August for the Canada Summer Games. We'll be sending teams, again, to

Prince Edward Island for the Winter Games in the winter of 2023. In 2024, we

have both our summer games and in 2025 we will host the Canada Summer Games.

So we

have a lot of opportunities here for sports activity in the province over the

next three or four years and it is important that people, from no matter which

corner of the province they live, have an opportunity to be a part of that if

they so desire and if they can, you know, equal opportunity to make these teams.

J. BROWN:

They need to train and they

have to meet in person to train.

It is

something that continuously gets raised in my community, especially where we

have a massive amount of young people playing hockey these days. There are a lot

of hockey teams up our way.

One

other thing, obviously, and I am sure you are aware, is there any room to take

on another recreation facility into the program right now? As you have seen that

ours had to close because of funding issues.

S. CROCKER:

The quick answer is, you

know, obviously, –

J. BROWN:

I'll call you.

S. CROCKER:

It's interesting because we

have these conversations on multiple levels when it comes to who actually takes

the responsibility for recreational assets.

Yeah,

maybe we can have a conversation about what's happening there and, you know,

what –

J. BROWN:

Yeah. There is obviously

some kind of solution, but, anyway, I appreciate it. Other than that, that's all

my questions for this section.

Thank

you, Minister.

CHAIR:

Thank you, MHA Brown.

Do you

have anything further, MHA Pardy?

C. PARDY:

A couple of points.

CHAIR:

Thank you.

C. PARDY:

Before concluding, the

minister has stated about the value of the walking trails and he referenced our

district. I had asked the Visitor Information Centre, the lady who works in

Clarenville, by far the greatest number of questions and queries that they get

when they stop in there is the hiking trails that would be on the peninsula.

I found

that surprising when I first heard it, because that wouldn't have been number

one on my list. I would think some others that probably would have – but she

says by far the majority are the walking trails within the district.

S. CROCKER:

It's obviously been 2016

since we had a full exit survey and this is why we need to get our – you know,

we can't put a strong enough focus on research, in my opinion. Because we have

to understand it, understand what's happening. But the East Coast Trails will

tell us that they are one of the greatest creators of travel to the East Coast

of this province.

When

people come here, that's one of the things they want to do, and we see it

throughout the province. Trailway development is on fire. We need to harness it.

We need to make sure we market it properly. It has great opportunities around

season extension because hiking is great in the fall or great in the spring.

One of

the things in the $20 million that we're committed to doing this year, as well,

is working with regions of the province that have season extension.

Because

we know, typically, we're going to be very strong in July and August, but we

need to start selling September, October, November for the West Coast of the

province. We need to start selling January, February and early March, or March.

Tremendous capacity not being used, unfortunately, in lots of cases, nine months

of the year.

C. PARDY:

Just two other quick points;

when we talk about the wellness, I think we have a school that serves every

portion of our population on the Island. How we utilize the school gymnasium,

whether it be seniors to come in to have walking programs that would be ongoing

for wellness issues. That would be something substantive, the better utilization

of our schools that are scattered all over the Island that would reach

everybody.

We've

got seniors that can't get access to the schools, like to have programs to go in

there walking, but they don't have it because it's not cut and dried. It's

probably supporting what needs to be done, or relaxing some regulatory that

would be there. But I mention that here just to be on the record to know that

that is a big miss.

would be in the District of Bonavista – and I think you may have referenced the

utilization of these schools and these facilities across the Island in the past,

if I didn't. So I just wanted to be on the record for that.

The

last thing I have, which before I pass it over to you, Minister, would be, we've

always had a legacy piece in every games that we've had – I think we have. I've

had the benefit of working many years at the Summer Games complex in

Clarenville, part of our gymnasium, three gymnasiums in one and what programming

we could offer as a result of that facility. I know we could have quantified it

better, but I think most of it is seen by the tournaments we hosted and so on.

there anything that would be planned as far as a legacy piece in the upcoming

games?

S. CROCKER:

I guess, to your questions,

I couldn't agree with you more on schools. Not every community have one, but we

have 260 opportunities.

C. PARDY:

Serving the regions.

S. CROCKER:

Totally.

C. PARDY:

If they're not in a

community, they're serving a region (inaudible).

S. CROCKER:

Totally. I couldn't agree

more, they're underutilized. I don't know how we get there at some point in

time, but I think we got to get there. I know I've had conversations with the

Minister of Education, even around Come Home Year. A lot of our communities,

that's the largest facility they have, and we've had conversations and

encouraging ones, with the minister specifically around Come Home Year and

allowing communities to have access to gymnasiums. I couldn't agree more.

Canada

Summer Games, yeah, there are discussions we're having. I meet with the Canada

Summer Games committee every second Tuesday or the co-chairs of the Summer Games

committee, regular conversations with them and the city, exploring options.

I don't

think it's any secret that we know there's a piece of work that needs to be done

around tennis. So I think we'll get there. And we also know that there's a piece

of work that needs to be done around athletics.

I said

this, I think when we announced about a year ago, when we formally announced the

games, you look at the Aquarena, which was a legacy piece from the '77 – I was

only a boy. Even though that's a legacy piece of the '77 games, there's going to

be significant investment in that, in renewing that facility.

there will be a legacy, I would argue of the Aquarena, just to bring it back,

because I would say it might have been '77 the last time there was a substantial

investment into the Aquarena.

But,

yes, we have that conversation. I think if you were to speak to the co-chairs of

the Canada Summer Games, both of them, are very – they very much want us to

leave legacy of those games.

To your

point, all games, all activities, leave a legacy. I look in my own district, if

I look at the benefits of Carbonear and Harbour Grace, actually hosting the

Newfoundland and Labrador Summer Games, I think, twice. The track facility

that's in Carbonear; work that was done to improve the pool. The 2024 games in

Bay Roberts will have a legacy and it will support infrastructure around. I

think Gander will have – actually, at this point in time the only 400-metre

track in the province will be in Gander. These games have a benefit beyond the

games themselves.

CHAIR:

Thank you, MHA Brown and

Pardy.

So if

the Committee is ready for the question, shall 4.1.01 to 4.2.03 carry?

All

those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

All those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

motion, subheads 4.1.01 through 4.2.03 carried.

CLERK:

The total.

CHAIR:

Shall the total carry?

All

those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

All those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

motion, Department of Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation, total heads,

carried.

CHAIR:

Shall I report the Estimates

of the Department of Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation carried without

amendment?

All

those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

All those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

motion, Estimates of the Department of Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation

carried without amendment.

CHAIR:

I will turn it to MHA Pardy

for just a short closing remark, if you would like.

C. PARDY:

Thank you to the Chair and

desk staff for the session.

Since

becoming an MHA in 2019, one of the more exciting parts of the learning curve I

have embarked upon are these Estimates proceedings. It is when you really get to

know the expertise that would be in our department and the knowledge of which

they hold. I've often contended that when I look at our province, as far as

soliciting from outside of our domain dollars or funds in order to complete

studies about our plight, that we need not be doing that knowing the expertise

that we have within our province.

I thank

you for your participation today, for your great work on behalf of the residents

of Newfoundland and Labrador. Minister, if I could, I would love to have a copy

of your introductory comments – which you said you would.

S. CROCKER:

Oh, absolutely. You'll get a

copy of everything. It'll be on a stick though, because we're saving paper.

C. PARDY:

Yeah.

S. CROCKER:

That's how we keep that line

item down.

C. PARDY:

That's not on this one, is

it? No, just – not his opening comments.

S. CROCKER:

Oh, sorry. Yes, we're trying

to keep – you know those office supplies you were talking about? We just drive

up the office supplies in the office of the Official Opposition when you print

it.

CHAIR:

Thank you, MHA Pardy.

MHA

Brown.

J. BROWN:

I want to thank the minister

and his staff. Thank you for this, it was great to have a conversation. It looks

very positive going forward and that's fantastic.

seems like we're ready for the coming tourism season. I look forward to coming

back and seeing how everything panned out over this past year. It is really nice

to see that the film and television industry seems to be on fire right now, so

I'd like to hear a bit more about that. I do take the minister up on his offer

to go and tour one of those sets when the opportunity is correct, because I

would like to see how that is playing out right now in this province.

thank you all. Thank you for all your input. I look forward to sitting on that

couch in the Colonial Building.

CHAIR:

Thank you.

Thank

you, MHA Brown.

Before

I call for an adjournment, Minister, the privilege is yours to end the meeting.

S. CROCKER:

Thank you, Chair.

You

won't be the first person to sit on it because I'm aiming for that. I can only

imagine that when I tweet that picture out the response, but I might just do it

anyway.

thanked the staff earlier and the executive that's here with me this morning,

but thank the entire staff in the department because there's a tremendous amount

of work that goes in the preparations for Estimates. There's a tremendous amount

of work that the staff, a lot of whom are behind the scenes, have done in the

last year, whether it's the tourism-hospitality support program, the artists'

support program, pushing out programs into the end of the fiscal year on tight

timelines. There's been a lot of work done.

The

industry is resilient. I'd be remiss if I didn't thank people like Hospitality

Newfoundland and Labrador and the Premier's Advisory Council on Tourism, the

work that they've done to help guide us to recovery. I think we're well on the

way to that recovery, but I would caution everybody that we still have a lot of

work to do. We're certainly, in this department and our government, committed to

doing that work in the coming months and years to rebuild this industry, not

only back to the $1.12 billion or the $1.2 billion that it brings in to the

province, but beyond.

I truly

believe, and you know, we've only literally scratched the surface of what

tourism can be in this province. Back to MHA Pardy's remarks earlier about our

culture and our arts, that's what we have that we can sell that's unique to

anybody in this world. Quite frankly, we bring in a tourist that typically has a

high spending threshold and it's important that we continue the work.

Tourism

is also important. As we go into Come Home Year, we get our visiting friends and

relatives back in the province. I can tell you from every indication that we've

seen, that's going to happen. I referenced it earlier; Marine Atlantic had a

10-year high in reservations and optimism going into this year.

Again,

thanks for the opportunity. It's great to do Estimates.

CHAIR:

Thank you, Minister.

Before

I adjourn, I just again want to thank the Committee, the minister and his

department and our staff here this morning.

I would

ask for a mover for adjournment. MHA Brown.

Our

next meeting will be at the call of the Chair.

Thank

you very much for your participation this morning and have a great day.

S. CROCKER:

Thanks, folks.

motion, the Committee adjourned .