1989 Legislative Session: 3rd Session, 34th Parliament

HANSARD

The following electronic version is for informational purposes only.

The printed version remains the official version.

Official Report of

DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY

(Hansard)

TUESDAY, MARCH 21, 1989

Afternoon Sitting

[ Page

5649 ]

CONTENTS

Routine Proceedings

An Act to Prevent the Unnecessary Eviction of Renters When Their Homes are

Proposed for Redevelopment or Conversion to Condominiums (Bill M201).

Mr. Blencoe

Introduction and first reading –– 5649

Oral Questions

Dioxin testing at Woodfibre mill. Mr. Cashore –– 5650

Resignation of David Poole. Mr. Williams –– 5650

Property tax assessments. Mr. Loenen –– 5650

Resignation of David Poole. Mr. Williams –– 5651

Fletcher Challenge Canada Ltd. Mr. G. Hanson –– 5652

Presenting Reports –– 5652

Throne Speech Debate

Ms. Marzari –– 5653

Hon. Mr. Parker –– 5654

Mr. Cashore –– 5658

Hon. Mr. Ree –– 5662

Mr. Guno –– 5665

Hon. Mr. Dirks –– 5667

Mr. Jones –– 5669

Hon. Mr. Weisgerber –– 5673

Mr. Blencoe –– 5676

The House met at 2:09 p.m.

HON. MR. DIRKS :

Mr. Speaker, in the members' gallery today, from the good Kootenay

region and right from the heart of the southeast coal, the city of

Fernie, are Mayor Tiny Shatosky, Alderman Frank Lento, president of the

B.C. Amateur Hockey Association, Alderman Barry Anselmo, Alderwoman

Maureen Herbert and Mr. Colin Dean, the administrator. Would this House

please make them welcome.

MR. KEMPF : Mr. Speaker, in

your gallery this afternoon are two very good friends from Smithers,

Mr. and Mrs. Hank Hofsink, and I would ask the House to make them very

welcome.

Also, I am sure there are others chomping at the

bit to introduce a former member of this House, John Parks, who is in

the gallery with us today.

MR. LOENEN : Mr. Speaker,

I have two introductions: first, Lloyd and Betty Howatt of Maple Ridge.

They are here today in the building, and I enjoyed a luncheon with

them. Some time ago they paid a small fortune at a fund-raiser of the

Social Credit Women's Auxiliary in order to be here today and to have

this luncheon, and I really appreciate that. Their roots and

connections with the Social Credit Party go right back to 1952, and I

would like to ask the House to welcome these two people.

Also,

Mr. Speaker, the Premier and I are happy to welcome a constituent, a

member of our Social Credit riding executive and also the host of "MLA

Open Line," which is our monthly television program. I would like to

ask the House to please welcome John Nixon.

MR. CASHORE :

Mr. Speaker, I too would like to welcome my constituent, John Parks. We

share the distinction of having had each other as constituents.

HON. MR. VEITCH :

Everyone has introduced Mr. Parks today; he is a very popular chap.

Seated next to Mr. Parks is a very prominent Chinese-Canadian

businessman and accountant, Mr. Girn Huey. I would ask the House to bid

him welcome.

HON. MR. WEISGERBER : It's a pleasure

today to introduce two new friends: Mr. Jack Jenning and Miss Laurie

Dee Kinney, who are visiting here from Morro Bay, California. Their

53-foot Canoe Cove was made

and sold in British Columbia and is moored in the Inner Harbour; they

are on their way to Alaska. I'd ask the House to make them welcome.

MR. CRANDALL : Mr. Speaker, I would appreciate the House welcoming an

uncle of mine here from Alberta, Mr. Alex Ogilvie. I might also remind the House

that that's a province which re-elected a free enterprise government yesterday.

HON. MR. COUVELIER :

The other member for Saanich and the Islands (Hon. Mr. Huberts) and I

are very pleased to have the opportunity of meeting some very dear

friends. They have an abiding interest in the political scene in the

province; I won't define their party affiliation. Nevertheless, we have

with us today Mr. Mark Dickinson, Mrs. Roberta Cuppage, Mr. Ladi

Holovsky, Mr. Art Kool, Mr. Bud McLean, Mr. Martin Olivier, Mr. John

Robertson and Mr. Ron Vissers. In the precinct we also have Mr. Bert

Ter Mors and Mrs. Jayne McCurrach. I'd ask the House to join me in

giving them a warm welcome.

HON. MR. BRUMMET : In the

gallery today is Jim Carter, who was the Deputy Minister of Education

for a long period of time. He is here today maintaining an interest in

education. He has brought with him to the Legislature for a tour and a

visit to my office six or eight adults accompanying some 50 students

I'd like the House to make them all welcome.

HON. MR. RICHMOND :

In the precincts today and I think in the gallery at this time is Lorna

Kirkham and 34 of her students, who are completing the financial

assistance worker education program at Douglas College. They are here

visiting the Legislature, and I'll be pleased to meet them later on.

Who knows, they may all be employees of ours sooner or later. I'd like

the House to make them welcome.

[2:15]

Introduction of Bills

AN ACT TO PREVENT

THE UNNECESSARY EVICTION OF RENTERS

WHEN THEIR HOMES ARE PROPOSED

FOR REDEVELOPMENT OR

CONVERSION TO CONDOMINIUMS

Mr.

Blencoe presented a bill intituled

An Act to Prevent the Unnecessary

Eviction of Renters When Their Homes are Proposed for Redevelopment or

Conversion to Condominiums.

MR. BLENCOE : Mr. Speaker, this bill does five things.

(1) It protects renters — like the ones in Kerrisdale who want only to stay in their homes —

from unnecessary eviction when their property is proposed for

demolition or conversion to condominiums. It requires, as the 1977

legislation did, that notice shall not be served before all municipal

or regional district requirements are met. It makes it clear that

municipal or regional district approvals are required before conversion

or demolition of rented homes is permitted.

(2) If the appropriate approvals are obtained, then the bill provides for moving expenses to be paid.

(3) The bill provides for reasonable notice for residents forced to relocate following the municipal permit process.

(4) It provides $2,000 compensation for the inconvenience and stress caused by the relocation.

[ Page 5650 ]

(5) It makes the protection retroactive to the opening day of the present

legislative session to protect the tenants of Kerrisdale and others now

threatened by demolition or eviction, among others who had not been

served notice of eviction.

Bill M201 introduced, read a

first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second

reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Oral Questions

DIOXIN TESTING AT WOODFIBRE MILL

MR. CASHORE :

To the Premier. I have a copy of a leaked document from Western Pulp

Partnership, the Woodfibre mill in Howe Sound. It warns supervisory

staff that there will be a survey of dioxins and other chlorinated

discharges during the week of March 13-17. It gives details of the

times of the tests and what must be done to make sure the mill is

better than average — that is, wearing its Sunday go-to-meeting

clothes instead of its working clothes at the times the tests are done.

How

can this government justify having the mills do their own testing and

monitoring of toxic chemicals given the fact that they are being tipped

off in advance? Is this what you call open government?

HON. MR. VANDER ZALM :

I'm slowly beginning to understand the whistle-blowing act, but I don't

really have any knowledge of this leaked document. I would defer to the

Minister Responsible for Environment (Hon. Mr. Strachan).

MR. CASHORE :

A new question to the Premier, Mr. Speaker. These tests were due by

January 30, 1988. Is it true that your government gave Woodfibre mill

extra time to pretty itself up and get these tests in late?

HON. MR. VANDER ZALM : I would defer to the Minister Responsible for Environment. I have no knowledge of this.

RESIGNATION OF DAVID POOLE

MR. WILLIAMS :

To the Premier, Mr. Speaker. Last year, before the strenuous caucus

meeting in Courtenay, you said you had received Mr. David Poole's

resignation and had accepted it. Would you confirm that.

HON. MR. VANDER ZALM : The question was that I had said what?

MR. WILLIAMS :

That you had received David Poole's — who was your assistant for

some 18 months — resignation and had accepted it. Can you confirm

that?

HON. MR. VANDER ZALM : I'll need to check on dates. I don't recall that.

MR. WILLIAMS :

We might ignore the dates, Mr. Speaker. Would the Premier confirm that

he had advised the public through the media that he had indeed received

Mr. Poole's resignation?

HON. MR. VANDER ZALM : Any quote in the media I will need to check.

MR. WILLIAMS : Is the Premier unsure whether Mr. Poole resigned?

MR. SPEAKER : Second member for Richmond.

MR. SIHOTA : The question....

Interjections.

MR. SPEAKER :

Sorry. The member didn't get up, and I recognized the second member for

Richmond. I'll have to let him ask a question, and then we can go back.

PROPERTY TAX ASSESSMENTS

MR. LOENEN :

I have a question for the Minister of Education (Hon. Mr. Brummet).

Property assessments in the lower mainland have increased dramatically.

As a result, an increasingly larger share of the education dollar is

carried by the homeowners in the lower mainland. The average Richmond

homeowner will pay $36 more, while in Kimberley they will pay $54 less

simply because of the shift in assessment. Will the minister adjust the

funding formula so as to ease these dramatic shifts?

HON. MR. BRUMMET :

I'd have to check the accuracy of the dollar amounts the member

mentioned. I can answer the member that each year the fiscal framework

is adjusted to take into account the changing assessments, once the

assessment rolls are finalized. So there are those adjustments. I don't

know if the member is wondering about any other adjustments. The only

other thing I could say is that we have committed ourselves, as part of

the policy directions of the government with respect to the royal

commission report, to look at the whole basis for the tax structure

over the next 12 months.

MR. LOENEN : I wonder if the

ministry might also consider looking at the possibility of levying a

minimum tax of, say, $25 on each homeowner throughout the province.

Currently, in my case in Richmond, people will pay approximately $400

on average towards the cost of education,

whereas there are throughout

the province vast numbers of homeowners who do not pay at all. I wonder

if the ministry will also consider the possibility of levying a minimum

of $25 towards the cost of education on each homeowner, wherever they

are in the province.

HON. MR. BRUMMET : I thank the

member for his question. Certainly we're considering any and all

options. I guess the question arises as to whether increasing the

amount of money that is paid by the

[ Page

5651 ]

minority of the population in some of the rural

districts would in effect benefit the larger districts. So we've got to

look at that, along with everything else. In other words, if you charge

the people out where there's a population of 10,000 another $25, would

that have any significant effect on lowering the taxes in the more

heavily populated areas and where the assessments are high. I'd have to

look at that.

HON. MR. RICHMOND : Mr. Speaker, during

the exchange with the first member for Vancouver East, the second

member for Vancouver East (Mr. Clark) made some remarks towards the

Chair that I found offensive, and I would ask him to withdraw.

AN HON. MEMBER : Did you hear it?

HON. MR. RICHMOND :

Yes, I did. We all did over here. I found them most offensive,

especially concerning the Chair. I would ask that he withdraw the

remarks. They were along the lines of: "Mr. Speaker, are you part of

the same game?"

MR. ROSE : I realize that the

government House Leader is a new man on the job, and I know that he

might be very sensitive and offend rather easily. But it has been the

practice here in this House, since I've been here, that all points of

order, should they be necessary, are usually delayed until after the

question period is over, because all that does is limit the amount of

time we have for question period.

HON. MR. RICHMOND :

Mr. Speaker, with all due respect to my learned colleague and to

yourself, if the remarks had been offensive merely to myself, I would

have let them go until after question period; but when they're

questioning the integrity of Mr. Speaker and the Chair, I think it's

important that they be brought to your attention immediately.

MR. CLARK : I certainly withdraw any inference that the other side may feel in terms of...that I cast aspersions on the Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER :

I thank the member for that. I can assure the members on both sides

that if a point of order is raised and it is felt necessary, the time

will not be taken out of question period. I have asked the Clerks to

make sure that the time this debate has taken in the last minute or so

be added to question period.

RESIGNATION OF DAVID POOLE

MR. WILLIAMS :

To the Premier. Last year you said you had received Mr. Poole's

resignation. It seems you are not ready to confirm that today. He was

your number one assistant for some 18 months. Are you telling us, Mr.

Premier, that at this point you don't know whether he quit or was fired?

HON. MR. VANDER ZALM : The answer is no, I'm not saying that.

MR. WILLIAMS : Then the question is: did Mr. Poole resign?

HON. MR. VANDER ZALM : The answer is yes.

MR. WILLIAMS :

Can the Premier explain why anybody who resigned after 18 months should

receive $172,000 in severance pay of one kind or another?

HON. MR. VANDER ZALM :

If it is at all possible, we could go back some years to see what the

policy has been in government with respect to these matters. Perhaps we

could go back to '72, '73, '74 and beyond. Similarly, we could consider

what it has been over the years in another jurisdiction, say the city

of Vancouver, to see how these matters are dealt with when it comes to

people in higher positions, be they planners or otherwise. Possibly it

will be of some benefit to members of the House to see how these

personnel matters are dealt with.

I understand, of course,

that personnel matters generally, whether at the municipal level, city

level, regional level or here, are of a confidential nature, but I can

appreciate that certain things are a matter of practice with all

jurisdictions. They may perhaps appear to be one way or another but

certainly are a matter of practice. I will be prepared to give some

further information on that at a later date. If you wish me to go back

as far as 1972, '73 and '74, that might be of some help.

MR. WILLIAMS :

To the Minister of Government Management Services. Can you confirm the

amounts that Mr. Poole received in severance and in topping up the

pension? And can you advise the House if anybody else in the history of

the public service of British Columbia received any amounts of that

nature after 18 months' employment with the province?

HON. MR. MICHAEL :

I have not gone to the trouble of going back many years and examining

the amounts of severance that were paid to various people who

voluntarily or involuntarily left the service of government. Perhaps we

could do that, as the Premier has said. But surely there should be

respect for the policy, not only of the provincial government but the

federal government, all governments across Canada. How about what goes

on in municipalities? I know that not very many members opposite have

had experience at the municipal level, whether it be serving on

council, as mayors, school trustees or school board chairmen, but

certainly those who have had that experience.... The second member for

Victoria (Mr. Blencoe) is one of the few opposite who has had community

experience. Surely those who have had that kind of experience are aware

that personnel policy and property procurement are matters where the

doors are closed. Those issues are discussed privately among the

people, whether they are involved in separation or disputes. Those

matters are of a confidential nature, and have been in the past —

and will be in the future — kept between the parties involved.

[ Page 5652 ]

would suggest that anybody opposite who has had that experience would

know that's the way it is at all levels of government, whether it be

municipal, regional, provincial or federal.

MR. WILLIAMS :

Ten grand a month for every month of service was put into severance. Is

there anything comparable in the history of British Columbia? Did the

minister consider that the average old age pension at the base level is

$3,841 a year? Does he think about the real world out there when he's

behind closed doors?

[2:30]

HON. MR. MICHAEL :

Mr. Speaker, I am not privy to all of the negotiations and arrangements

that have been made over the years between parties. I do know that it

is a matter of great confidentiality when someone parts company,

particularly at the senior level.

Interjections.

MR. SPEAKER : Order, please.

HON. MR. MICHAEL :

I understand, Mr. Speaker, that there is one example of a member of

this House who received some $80,000 after one month of service.

Interjections.

MR. SPEAKER : Order, please.

MR. KEMPF : But not taxpayers' money.

HON. MR. MICHAEL :

Surely, Mr. Speaker, there must be respect for policy; there must be

respect for precedence; there must be respect for things that have gone

on at all levels of government, as I said earlier — and, indeed,

in Crown corporations. I can give you an example from not too long ago

where settlements were made in excess of the figure the member

mentioned. Those are confidential matters.

In many

instances there are contracts in effect between the senior staff and

Crown corporations, or senior levels of government, and I would suggest

that the members opposite take cognizance of those types of

arrangements that are made. They are of a personnel nature. I don't

think it is the kind of thing that we want to flag throughout the

province. It is a matter of departure of employees and arrangements

made on severance.

As the next few weeks unfold, I'm sure

we are all looking forward to the report that is being brought in by

former Chief Justice Nemetz. We know that report is being prepared.

Consultation is ongoing between my senior staff and Chief Justice

Nemetz. We look forward to that report which was brought in on the

instruction of myself to fully review the policy and the past practice

to see whether or not what is being done by the provincial government

is indeed of interest to the taxpayers of British Columbia.

FLETCHER CHALLENGE CANADA LTD.

MR. G. HANSON :

Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Forests regarding

people who have worked 25 and 35 years in the Fletcher Challenge mill

in Victoria. Yesterday the Minister of Forests announced measures to

decrease log exports from the south coast, and the Minister stated that

over one million cubic metres fewer logs were to be exported from the

province in the first year of this new policy. Has the Minister decided

to ensure that the Fletcher Challenge sawmill in Victoria stays open in

order that it can take advantage of the increased supply of raw logs in

the province?

HON. MR. PARKER : We have created an

opportunity for additional wood supply in the southwestern portion of

the province. All participants in that marketplace have equal

opportunity. Whether or not Fletcher Challenge sees fit to take

advantage of that opportunity is up to them. This ministry doesn't

direct anybody into one supply or another.

MR. G. HANSON :

One of the minister's duties under the Ministry of Forests Act is to

encourage a vigorous, efficient and world competitive timber processing

industry in the province. This particular operation is being caught in

a classic catch-22.

The audit on TFL 46 will not be

completed until June. The impact of the tax on the raw logs will not be

felt for some time. By the time these occur, that mill will be closed.

That mill plows $7 million in payroll into this economy with $2 million

in profits last year. Is this a good way to ensure a vigorous

timber-processing industry in the province — to allow such a mill

to close? It's a catch-22. We are asking you to postpone that to allow

these people a fair opportunity to get access to that wood.

HON. MR. PARKER :

Mr. Speaker, the fee in lieu of manufacture has been raised from 40

percent to 100 percent on surplus logs offered for export. This means

that the seller of the logs will not see any advantage to selling his

logs offshore or domestically; he has the same opportunity. That goes

into play next week — not some months from now — on April 1.

The impact is pretty well immediate, and that means the log supply is

available.

What

will determine what is efficient and appropriate is the marketplace and

the economics of the marketplace. We make sure that the wood supply is

there. We do that, and we do it very well throughout the province.

We've gone one step further for the southwestern region of the

province. Those opportunities are available. If Fletcher Challenge sees

fit to seize upon it, they'll seize upon it. It's the marketplace that

will determine that.

Orders of the Day

Presenting Reports

HON. MR. COUVELIER : Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present a statement which details the

[ Page 5653 ]

amounts remitted or refunded in the '88 calendar year under

section 23 of the Taxation (Rural Area) Act.

have the honour to present the annual report of the Assessment Appeal

Board in accordance with

section 66 of the Assessment Act. This

summarizes the activities of the board for the '88 calendar year.

am presenting also the annual report of the superintendent of insurance

for the '87 calendar year in accordance with

section 351 of the

Insurance Act. This details the insurance business transacted during

that year.

I also have the annual report of the Minister of

Finance and Corporate Relations for the fiscal year ended March 31, in

accordance with

section 5 of the Financial Administration Act.

also have the honour to present the public accounts for the fiscal year

ended March 31, 1988. I am requesting leave of the House to move a

motion without notice.

Leave granted.

HON. MR. COUVELIER :

I move that the public accounts for the fiscal year ended March 31,

1988, be referred to the Select Standing Committee on Public Accounts

pursuant to the orders of the House made Thursday last.

MR. ROSE : I wonder if my colleague can make a few remarks about public accounts.

MS. MARZARI :

In the fall of 1987, the House met. It was therefore capable of dealing

at greater length with the public accounts of 1986-87. It brought

within reasonable proximity the completion of the public accounts and

the actual ability to look them over.

Here we find

ourselves in 1989 just receiving the public accounts for the first time

for a previous fiscal year, 1987-88. A full year has gone by. We are

looking at figures which are still relevant but, one must admit, a year

away from the public disclosure and from open government.

would suggest that this gives us pause to think in terms of ensuring

that the public accounts are prepared within three or four months after

the end of a fiscal year, and that the Public Accounts Committee be

given leave to sit when the House is not meeting. I put that forward. I

have already put a motion on the order paper, and I will pursue that as

best I can over the next term.

Motion approved.

HON. MRS. JOHNSTON : I have the honour to present the annual report for 1987-88 of B.C. Transit.

Throne Speech Debate

(continued)

On the amendment.

MS. MARZARI :

This morning, before the break, I likened the province to a spring

garden, and I'm glad the Premier is in attendance this afternoon. I

likened it to a garden that had been allowed to run dry. The throne

speech is basically a thin sprinkling of fertilizer on ground too

parched to fully receive it.

I found that I discussed the

industry and the new minister for women, and I suggested that whoever

she will be, she is going to be faced with a contradiction in terms.

When it was suggested to me by the Provincial Secretary (Hon. Mr. Reid)

that the new minister for women could well be a man, I thought: there

is proof of the pudding, the contradiction in terms is complete.

Whether

he is a she or if she is a he, I suggested that what we needed to do

was create good ideas to fill what may well be a good structure. That

is what the government is missing right now: good ideas about what

women should be. I suggested that a minister should be there to empower

a group or a function, not to control a group or a function.

suggested that women under this government have been referred to only

in terms of being mothers or mothers-to-be, not as workers, as equal

contributors to the workforce and society.

Attempting to

help the new minister along, I suggested too that women in this

province wanted three things: equality, security and choice. Equality

in terms of their capacity to earn money in the workforce. Security in

terms of their ability to feel secure in the workplace, on the street,

at home and in terms of income security. And reproductive choice is the

foundation stone, the issue that women in this province are feeling

right now is the ultimate one for them. Because without reproductive

choice, another agenda can be imposed upon women, and women will always

be vulnerable.

I did not want to write a terms of reference

for the new minister, but I do think there are a few ideas which should

come forth now, ideas which have been put forward before by our party,

as many of them are in its policy. These ideas have come to many of us

over our desks over the last few months and the last few years and are

part of our lives. I would suggest that if we were sincere about a

women's ministry, a minister for women, we would do a number of things,

such as — and these are not exhaustive — immediate funding of

the operating costs for Everywoman's Health Centre; the development of

a complete education for girls and women around family planning and

reproductive choice; an affirmative action plan for women, handicapped,

visible minorities, government and Crown employees; a contract

compliance act to encourage the promotion of women in the private

sector doing business with the province, which would assist women to be

bumped up the employability ladder in their professions and their

workplaces; women's offices in colleges throughout the province. I

think all three of the universities have small rudimentary women's

offices which do research. The colleges are also asking for women's

offices to deal with problems that women students have in access, in

ability to pay their way, in funding, in student loans. Women in

colleges are having a rough time.

[ Page 5654 ]

Another

thing would be a pay equity bill to encourage and develop a whole

series of strategies to give women the dollar difference between their

pay and men's pay. There are a lot of ways of doing it. We don't have

an ultimate answer yet, but I think it's something you might want to

work on, to deal with that 60-cent dollar that women make in the

workplace and which we ultimately subsidize. We very often pay the

remaining 40 cents in social services and court costs.

Another thing would be a hard-nosed negotiation with Ottawa to build affordable

housing for women of all ages: transition housing for when they are abused;

second stage housing for when they are ready to come back into the community;

family housing for women with children; housing for women in middle years, the

women who are very often invisible and neglected by the community; and housing

for seniors.

An increase to poverty levels, at least, of welfare rates: women live 65 percent

below the poverty level, below the subsistence level. Let's help bring those

rates back up to the rates defined as subsistence level by the SPARC review,

which I gather will be coming out in a week or so. That SPARC food basket is

a pretty good indication of how people on welfare live in our province.

Another need: a bill to recognize women in small business and a special capital

fund to assist them to get their equity in line and to get their operating lines

of credit when they set up small business. As I said, small business for women

is big business for us.

[2:45]

A provision in the Medical Services Plan to cover, perhaps, the

costs of adult and child counselling for the survivors of sexual abuse.

This is something which hasn't been discussed before, but I know many

of you, as I have, have been coming across many women and children in

our society who are discovering — who literally didn't know —

that sexual abuse has happened to them, that it is an issue for them,

that their functioning and their children's functioning has been badly

impaired by the fact that they have been abused as children. Alcoholism

goes along with that trend, that pattern. I am suggesting that you take

a look at Medical Services Plan coverage for the special counselling

needed. It is a phenomenal need.

We need an increase in

the homemaker rates and the training time to train homemakers, an

increase in the number of hours and days that homemakers are capable of

working with people, and an expansion of quality nursing home spaces so

that when homemaking services are no longer required and a person —

a woman, most likely, since women live longer and end up in nursing

homes.... Perhaps we can expand the amount of time women spend in their

home and then ensure that if they go to a nursing home it's a

quality-care home.

Another thing: a move to massively increase child care spaces to reflect more

than 10 percent of the need. We need 200,000 spaces in this province for child

care — licensed, safe places — and we've got 20,000. We don't need

a study. The minister will be studying this; the study is not required; the

study can be done in 10 minutes with $10.

Perhaps

the most important thing we need is a new language to pull together,

between ministries, programs which already exist. That's not so much a

new ministry, but a coordinative function: collaboration between

ministers; cooperation between programs which exist, whether they be

alcohol-abuse programs coordinated with CounterAttack, with special

counselling, with programs developed with, perhaps, organizations like

MADD, Mothers Against Drinking Drivers; coordination between education

programs designed to reduce sexism in school curricula and health

department coordination to develop new kinds of programs to deal with

women's health needs; coordination with labour to ensure that there's

safety in the workplace for women. I'm talking about cooperation

between existing departments. It's a new language for this government,

one which is difficult for this government to understand completely

because it would involve a commitment to rebuild the public service, to

put back in place people who can do the job — rather than public

servants waiting for their pink slips, public servants would be waiting

for new jobs, new challenges, new coordinative programs to be pulled

together. This is not something this government has done a very good

job of. In fact, you have decimated the civil service.

These

are just a few of the ideas which I think would help fill out the new

spring garden and bring the parched earth back to life again. They take

a lot of commitment. They take more commitment than money, as a matter

of fact. They take proper structures built by a civil service. They

take proper willpower on the part of ministers or the new minister.

These are just a few of the ideas, as I said before. They may help you

out, but in the last analysis I'd basically rather that we voted you

out.

HON. MR. PARKER : I welcome this opportunity to

speak in support of the Speech from the Throne. The throne speech

flagged three sustaining priorities for British Columbia: continued

economic growth and diversification; preservation of our environment;

and an education policy to meet our future needs. I think I would have

turned that around just a bit and said that first and foremost we would

direct an education policy to meet our future needs, because youth is

our key resource; then follows our environment and all the natural

resources that come with it. With those two together, we can be ensured

of economic growth and diversification in the future. We'll see growth

and diversification; we'll see caring for the environment; and we'll

see a sustaining economy that will support the education policies we

wish to make available to our youth through the teamwork of the various

ministries of this government.

Some of the initiatives that

the Ministry of Forests has put forth during this mandate in order to

support the claims and aims and goals of this Speech from the Throne

include a great deal of diversification in the

[ Page 5655 ]

forest

industry, the primary thrust being through the small business

enterprise program. As many people are aware, we undertook to increase

the amount of timber available for this program by recapturing 5

percent of the annual allowable cut of licensees holding replaceable

licences. Add that to the existing small business program and a portion

of the Forest Service reserve in each of our timber supply areas in the

province, and we'll have a minimum of 15 percent of the provincial

annual allowable cut available for the small business enterprise

program.

We're

taking that increased volume to promote

value-added industry in the small business sector. Small business is a

very important sector in British Columbia. Small business, not only in

the forest industry but in a number of other segments in the province,

is a major employer and the backbone of the provincial economy. We as a

ministry are fostering small business initiative, and we're doing that

through the Forest Service to provide the economic growth that provides

the funding necessary for all the services that we like to see in this

province, including the monitoring of environmental strategies,

services for social services, health, education, transportation —

all the many items that are provided by government. But they're only

provided as long as you have a healthy economy.

Through

our small business enterprise program the Forest Service must deal with

the preparation and the planning. When we do the planning, we very much

pay attention to the environmental concerns through a referral process

to the various ministries that are involved. In each stage of that

development of the small business program timber sales, we present our

planning publicly. We do that at the management and working-plan stage,

which is a five-year plan for the small business program in any TSA.

go on to the development plan, and that too is available for public

viewing and input. Then we go on to the cutting plans, which get down

to an annual activity. That too is referred to all the agencies and is

available to the public. Then we get into the pre-harvest silvicultural

plan. That too is vetted by various agencies and the public. Then we

get to the cutting permit, and that too.... In this case the cutting

permits are usually timber sales, and those are available for vetting

by the various agencies and by the public. So we have a very

substantial consultative process, and that type of consultation

prevails throughout this government. This is the most open government

in the history of British Columbia and the most accessible. We

certainly do that in the Ministry of Forests.

move on. When we get through the harvest stage — we monitor the

harvest stage to make sure that our licensees are indeed meeting the

terms of their contract — we are into the forest renewal stage,

and that's our responsibility as a ministry too.

Forest

renewal is the responsibility of the ministry in the small business

program, but forest renewal is fully the responsibility of all those

licensees who hold replaceable licences in this province. Because of

that, we see some additional diversification in our economy. We have

fostered a substantial silvicultural industry in this province.

There

are a number of small businesses springing up throughout British

Columbia. They are involved in site preparation, cone collection and

tree planting. In those areas where there is overstocking, they're

involved in spacing, weeding and thinning. Overstocking happens in

natural regeneration situations; it also happens in artificially

regenerated areas where we have seed blown in, and the growth of wild

seedlings along with the artificially raised seedlings causes

overcrowding on the site. It's as important to tend the farm as it is

to plant the crop.

So we see a great diversification in the

small business sector in British Columbia that contributes very much to

the revenues we need to be able to deliver on the things we outlined in

the throne speech.

The real key to the small business

program has been the focus on the value-added industries. Opportunities

in the forest industry in value-added products are just limited by your

imagination. I have a number of examples of value-added industry; it's

scattered around the province, and I'd like to share them with the

House. I think many of us don't realize that the things we heard from

across the way here the other day are already happening in this

province. They're happening in a big way, and we're fostering it and

helping it grow to be a much more substantial segment of our industry.

Believe

it or not, MacMillan Bloedel in Alberni has been one of the leaders in

value-added products. Many people think that MacMillan Bloedel is just

cranking out timbers, dimension, pulp and newsprint. They do a great

deal more than that. They are leading the way with some very high tech

processing in Alberni, primarily in cedar and hemlock products that are

really end-product items. They're ready to go into place in the home or

in the furniture — wherever the customer has specified.

That's

the key here with not only MacMillan Bloedel, but everybody who has

entered the value-added industry in British Columbia. They've learned,

and they're doing very well with this new knowledge. I guess it's

elementary to most people who just take a look at it from the

sidelines. You have to identify what the customer wants and deliver it

consistently and of high quality. MacMillan Bloedel is doing that.

They're using a number of contract mills in the southwestern portion of

the province to help them deliver those products.

They've

developed a very interesting item; it's a reconstituted wood product

called Parallam. These are substantial timbers; they're about 11 inches

by 14 inches in dimension and about 65 or 66 feet in length. From my

background in the forest industry, I'd call that a sawmiller's dream,

because here we have rectangular logs to put through a remanning

process. The only thing you have is sawdust, and that I understand is

used in fire-log products. There is very little waste in that process,

and Parallam has caught the imagination of construction agencies around

the world. It came right out of British Columbia, right out of one of

the big bad multinationals called Mac-

[ Page 5656 ]

Millan Bloedel Ltd. I am pleased for British Columbia and for MacMillan Bloedel.

[3:00]

Fletcher Challenge Canada is very much in the forefront in

value-added, providing joinery products, paneling, moulding products

and a number of specialty items for the European and Japanese joinery

industries. They are also going into newsprint. A newsprint mill will

provide the same amount of employment for a cubic metre of wood as a

sawmill. It's a good place for our logs to wind up — in newsprint

products. The employment level is comparable to the sawmill industry.

Canfor

Corp. is moving forward into newsprint, but for years they've been in

value-added products. They are expanding there too. As a matter of

fact, they were the first ones to use sawdust in masonite, that hard

particle board that so many of us have used in the past, before the new

plastic laminates came along.

Canadian Pacific Forest

Products is putting in a brand new sawmill in Tahsis. I know the print

media would have you believe that Tahsis is going down the tube, but

Canadian Pacific Forest Products is putting in a new sawmill that will

be oriented to the Orient. Its products will be custom cut for

specialty customers in Japan, China and other places in Asia.

They

are also going into newsprint. There is a newsprint plant going into

Gold River, and a newsprint plant employs as many people per cubic

metre of wood as a sawmill — value-added. It helps to provide the

diversification for our economy that is so important to be sure we can

deliver the things that people have come to expect of this government.

Not

too far up the Island from here, a German family in Chemainus set up

Plenk's Wood Centre, which is delivering quality doors and windows to

Germany. It's already in place.

So is Woodland Sash and

Door in Prince George. Their products are going to Europe and Japan. As

a matter of fact, they are working with another value-added product:

British Columbia log homes. They are manufactured by a number of

manufacturers in British Columbia in a number of locations, such as

Penticton, 100 Mile House, and Prince George.

Woodland Sash

and Door is providing a unique door and window system that is in

keeping with those value-added log homes. It appeals to customers

around the world, and they are shipping them around the world.

The

sort of initiative that you see in a small business industry is

demonstrated at Woodland Sash and Door. They determine that if they can

make these frames, they can certainly glaze them. So we have another

little sideline happening right in Woodland Sash and Door: glazing.

They have gone one step further. If for some reason people do not want

to buy windows and doors for a little while, what will they do with

their staff? They are very conscientious employers, these small

business enterprisers.

I go back to Woodland Sash and Door

in Prince George, who have been in operation since 1969. They have

never closed their doors or had any layoffs in those 20 years,

regardless of the market situations.

They have been

versatile and they have been conscientious. They know that without the

people in that mill, all they have is a bunch of old steel. It's not

worth much without the people. They are the key.

They put

their heads together and determined that they could deliver quality

pine furniture for Ikea. They have picked several product items that

they felt they could deal with very well. They have identified that as

their business. The employees have been part of that decision-making

and bought into the program. So among other things they provide

specialty furniture items to Ikea that are sold over North America.

There

is another outfit in Chemainus that is into the same sort of thing:

Adwood Manufacturing. There is another outfit in Surrey — B.W. Creative

Wood Industries. Their specialty is spindles. They use a great deal of

hemlock. It wasn't too many years ago when hemlock was considered a

weed species, and the only way we could market it was to call it Alaska

pine.

There are a number of things you have to bring to

mind to remember that the opportunities in British Columbia are many.

Diversification of our economy is the key to recession-proofing.

Diversification is the key to our being able to continue to deliver the

services people come to expect from us. We see further diversification

in the lower mainland. Over in Port Mellon on the Sunshine Coast there

is an outfit that is a small business enterprise — again,

delivering special forest products cut specifically for Japanese

housing. Tyee Timber Products out in Langley is doing cedar and fir

paneling and mouldings, special patterns, and providing those extra

things. Do you ever wonder where the crossarms come from for telephone

poles? That is a specialty item. If you need one, get it from Tyee

Timber Products.

Interjection.

HON. MR. PARKER :

They're in Langley. They're close to you there, Mark — not too far

from you. It probably takes about an hour to drive from there to UBC, I

would guess.

in Quesnel there is a small business enterprise called C&C Wood

Products. They've identified a means of utilizing small-diameter lodge

pole pine, which for years has been considered a weed, and they are

making specialty paneling and furniture components. Again, it's a small

business initiative, and that's what we're fostering with this ministry.

Elkwood

Specialties in Maple Ridge is into specialty wood products for Japan.

Finishing Touch, as it is called, in Richmond is a small business that

puts out mouldings in hemlock and pine.

We haven't just

fostered business in sawmilling, solid-wood products or reconstituted

wood products. This ministry has helped foster an industry that's known

very well in Abbotsford. Conair Aviation is actually known the world

round for redesigning aircraft for firefighting purposes. They are a

specialty manufacturer. In their development of the technology

[ Page 5657 ]

for

redesigning these aircraft, they have provided a number of

apprenticeship opportunities for young men and women in the aviation

industry. In the past those opportunities have been all too infrequent,

and I am pleased to see the thrust that my colleague the Minister of

Advanced Education and Job Training (Hon. S. Hagen) is taking in making

post-secondary education opportunities that much better for our young

people.

Conair Aviation, with just private initiative, has

developed a payroll of some 300 people, with a substantial number of

apprentices. They are delivering aircraft around the world. Their most

recent accomplishment is the conversion of a small airliner, an F-27.

It's a twin-engine turbine aircraft. They've converted it to a water

bomber, and they can sell all they can get their hands on to France.

They've

provided Trackers to France and Spain. Those Trackers are naval

aircraft. They're used for tracking submarines, and they fly off

carriers. They are quite a substantial aircraft, built like a

bridge — very tough, very popular with the water-bombing services.

Conair is the very first in the world to convert that airframe to

turbine power, right in Abbotsford.

They've caught the eye

of a number of countries. Most significantly, the United States Air

Force and Navy are dealing with Conair and getting specialty items

built for their purposes. Conair has the expertise, and they are

developing more expertise by providing apprenticeship opportunities to

our youth in the Abbotsford area.

Other

areas where our

ministry has been able to help provide diversification, the punch for

our economy, are in the various fields of forest research. We've seen a

great deal of work done around the province — actually, a great

deal of work has been done in genetic improvement since the

1920s —

and the Forest Service has been in the forefront in that research.

Since then we've seen substantial growth in that field in the number of

major licensees: Canadian Pacific Forest Products, MacMillan Bloedel,

Fletcher Challenge, Canadian Forest Products, Tolko Industries. A

number of corporations throughout the province have seen their

responsibility to genetically improve stock so that we can see a faster

turnaround in forest renewal in British Columbia, with trees that have

better growing characteristics and better wood characteristics.

We have developed a means of detecting lightning strikes around the province —

some 40 percent of our forest fires are caused by lightning strikes. We

have a network around the province of two dozen lightning locators,

allowing us to triangulate and deal with those lightning strikes. Our

province is unique in its terrain; a lot of those strikes are in remote

areas and must be dealt with quickly, and we're able to do that by

pinpointing just where the strikes are. These locators, plus air

patrols, have replaced our stationary lookouts for the most part. It's

a technology that was developed here in British Columbia. It's very

effective, and we have people around the world taking a look at what we

are doing.

To deal with those lightning strikes, we

developed a rap attack fire suppression system, which provides

employment opportunities for young people in British Columbia every

fire season. It's a highly selective process; only the fittest

individuals get to serve. Rapattack is an acronym for rappel fire

attack teams; they rappel from helicopters. These young people, most of

them university students, are very bright, very athletic, very

competent. As a matter of fact, in the over ten years that we've had

rapattack in the province, we've had two minor non-time-loss accidents.

I think that speaks very well of our Forest Service, very well of our

youth. They're in the vanguard. The U.S. Forest Service attempted to

develop this type of a team and had a substantial number of injuries.

They stopped the program. Since then they have restarted the program,

but using British Columbia techniques.

These young people

are very innovative and over the years have developed a series of

products that they concocted out of necessity in the field. Necessity

is the mother of invention. A number of products are being built by

British Columbia manufacturers and actually marketed around the world.

Here is some more of the diversification that is so critical, making

sure our economy is running in the manner in which it can deliver the

sorts of things that are put forth in this throne speech.

Another developing company in British Columbia as a result of Forest Service

initiatives is in the field of forest pests: Phero Teck Inc. in Vancouver. Some

faculty and graduate students from the University of British Columbia and Simon

Fraser University got together and are providing forest pest control services

that are biologically acceptable and, again, in the forefront world 'round.

As a matter of fact, a little spinoff from that is a funnel trap that one of

the gentlemen there developed. By using secretions from the insects that attract

both sexes to the trap, they are able to control forest pests. They also have

developed a system that will allow us to control the African killer bee, which

is a real problem in a number of areas where we have commercial apiaries. These

folks are just a little outfit in the southwestern part of British Columbia,

but they're innovative, they're well educated, and the initiative they

have demonstrated has put their company into an international mode.

[3:15]

There are many success stories throughout the province. It is

creating the environment for these people to take their ideas and

actually put them into motion, benefiting all of us in British Columbia

as a result with remarkable new products that are environmentally safe

and acceptable, products that make our lives better, that improve our

productivity, that make us more competitive world 'round. I'm most

thankful that we have people of that initiative in British Columbia,

and I'm proud that we as a ministry can help to create the

opportunities and the support necessary to foster those sorts of

undertakings.

Mr. Speaker, it is with a great deal of

pleasure that I stand here and support the Speech from the Throne and

the good things put forth in this speech. I am

[ Page 5658 ]

particularly

pleased to see a Premier's Council on Native Affairs. In Terrace, where

I live, we're in the centre of some of the heaviest population of

natives in British Columbia. We live, worship, go to school, attend the

local shopping centres and so on with many natives. Many of them are

not only friends but good friends of our family.

I, like a

lot of other people, recognize that these are our first peoples and

that their concerns are real concerns. We need to better understand how

we can meet their goals and our goals and live together in a peaceful

manner. The Premier's Council on Native Affairs is an excellent way to

help understand one another's goals and objectives.

When I

was appointed minister of state on an interim basis covering the North

Coast area, I was pleased to invite our native leaders to participate

in our advisory committees, and they were pleased to join us. In many

cases, I found that it was the first time any of the non-native

participants ever took the time to bother to find out what the native

peoples' goals, concerns and hurts were. The Premier's Council on

Native Affairs is a great step forward in that issue.

closing, I'd like to touch on something mentioned just briefly in the

throne speech, the B.C. Winter Games. This last month, these were held

in Nelson. Anybody who has participated in either the B.C. Winter Games

or the B.C. Summer Games knows just how much latent talent we have in

each of our committees. It's an absolute pleasure to participate in

those Games organizations. I'm pleased to have participated in two of

them across the province. The talent in our communities is much and

varied, and you never know it until you get the chance to bring the

volunteers out and support these sorts of undertakings. The Games in

British Columbia really bring our communities together. They really get

people to focus on the community and what it can offer.

British

Columbia has more to offer than any place I've encountered anywhere in

the world. I'm honoured to be a part of British Columbia and a part of

this government.

MR. ROSE : On a point of order, I

was a little bit concerned about attendance here this afternoon. I'm

told by the Deputy Whip of the government that there are some committee

meetings going on while the House is sitting. I don't know whether

that's the reason, but I do think that since the member for

Maillardville-Coquitlam (Mr. Cashore) is about to speak, we should call

a quorum, bells, and get the members in here.

MR. SPEAKER : The point raised by the opposition House Leader is a very good one, and I think it would be appropriate to ring the bells.

There now appears to be a quorum.

MR. CASHORE :

This is the third time that I have risen to speak to a throne speech.

Even after three years of having fresh surprises, my House Leader has

surprised me again. I do appreciate the support.

In my

remarks, I want to concentrate on the issue of the environment and

sustainable development. There has been much said about sustainable

development, and about the environment and the economy. The Brundtland

commission report that the Minister of Environment (Hon. Mr. Strachan)

referred to yesterday is certainly a document that does not belong to

people of any political stripe. It's a document that has had a

tremendous impact.

One of the things that is going on right

now, as we saw during the federal election, is that people of all

political persuasions are involved in the battle to try to win the

minds and hearts of people with regard to their understanding, their

perspective on what sustainable development is all about. Again, it's a

situation of the politicians following the lead of the people. I

understand that surveys make it clear that 83 percent of the people of

Canada and 87 percent of the people of British Columbia indicate that

the environment is the most important issue.

Just remember

that the scope of the Brundtland commission is global. I would, on a

somewhat somber note, remind my colleagues in the House that there are

major problems on a worldwide scale that we are going to have to find

ways to address today. We're going to have to find ways to address

those issues on a non-partisan basis.

[Mr. Pelton in the chair.]

The

United Nations International Children's Emergency Fund declared in

November that 500,000 children had died worldwide as a result of the

tragic situation with regard to the debt of Third World countries. What

has been happening, Mr. Speaker, is that instead of nations such as

Brazil, just to mention one, tending to matters that are so important

in order to be able to feed their children and deal with matters of

illness, those countries are tending to the matter of paying off the

interest on their enormous debt. This is truly an issue that we as a

world community must find a way to address, and urgently, because

there's kind of a myth out there that foreign aid flows from the

industrialized world to the Third World. But when you really look at

what is involved in paying off that debt, the opposite is the case. The

wealth is flowing from the Third World to the industrialized world, and

this is something that is ultimately going to be a problem for

everybody, on a global scale.

How does this relate to the

environment? Mr. Speaker, this is one of the reasons that the Brazilian

rain forest, the lungs of the earth, is being cut down at an alarming

rate. Many hectares every day are being cut down in the rain forest in

Brazil so that country can attend to its foreign debt, and that country

is therefore deprived of its responsibility to attend to the starvation

and illness among many of its children.

Mr. Speaker, the

throne speech listed several initiatives that the government is

planning with regard to the environment. The opposition brought

forward, many weeks before the throne speech, its own pro-

[ Page

5659 ]

gram of 22 private members' bills to deal with the matter of sustainable development.

Truly,

Mr. Speaker, credibility becomes the issue here — who has the

credibility to be seen as the ones who will stand up on behalf of the

people of British Columbia, on behalf of the people of the world, and

provide the kind of environmental care and protection that is needed.

We need people who truly love this planet to be able to function in

such a way that we do not continue to damage the environment and that

we can deliver a hopeful future to our grandchildren, as they may do

for their grandchildren.

Mr. Speaker, I am glad — and this may be quoted to me again out of context —

that the government has pointed out that it plans to take some

initiatives with regard to environmental issues. I'm pleased to see

that, but I think what we have to recognize when we say that is that it

comes down to the question of what is called political will. Who has

the political will to fulfill the kinds of promises and commitments

being made?

I want to point out that the Minister of

Environment (Hon. Mr. Strachan), having been stung by the criticism of

a great many people with regard to the oil spill and having been stung

by the criticism of some journalists, said in his speech yesterday that

he was very critical of the Times-Colonist, in that they had no basis

for criticizing him. I hope that his thin skin doesn't cause problems

for the good people in his ministry who have spoken out against

him — people like Jim Walker, director of the wildlife branch, who

in a document that we released several weeks ago wrote: "Many staff

have the impression that the performance of the Ministry of Environment

is to be evaluated mainly on the basis of whether it...pays its way.

It would rather appear to be undermining the original reason for the

existence of the ministry." He goes on to say that some "staff may

still have the impression that we were supposed to be stewards of the

environment."

Mr. Speaker, this is an indictment of this

ministry, of the political interference that has taken place with

regard to this ministry, of the loss of staff in that ministry who have

had their ability to fulfill their responsibility to protect the

environment severely abused and damaged by two governments' programs of

restraint.

Mr. Walker goes on to ask: "Why are we cutting back at the time the government

has supposedly made a public commitment to ensuring that environmental concerns

will be a higher priority...than ever before?" Why indeed, Mr. Speaker,

when the minister yesterday admitted that it was in 1985, more than two years

ago, that this government apparently endorsed the Bruntland commission report?

How can they say that they endorse that report when they have such an abysmal

track record?

Jim Walker went on to say: "In actual fact, we have rarely been worse

off. The apparent paradox of the government's concept of sustainable development

is tied very closely to the declining morale of our own staff." What then,

Mr. Speaker, is sustainable development? What is the role of the Environment

ministry? Well, Mr. Speaker, sustainable development comes down to a question

of political will. Does the B.C. government have the political will to put in

place what it says it's going to? I would say that its track record says

beyond a shadow of doubt that it doesn't, in view of the well-documented

lack of public confidence, of editorial comment and of the angst that comes

through from very good people who work within this ministry, who constantly

have their legs cut out from under them in their attempts to fulfill their responsibility

with inadequate staff and direction.

[3:30]

Here are just a few examples of a great many issues that are

tremendously problematic in the province right now and that indicate

that the Minister of Environment has failed. First of all there is the

fast-tracking of the Vancouver Island pipeline. That fast-tracking is

being put forward as being for environmental reasons. As so often is

the case, it uses the argument that this is going to protect the

environment, but what about fast-tracking through the Coquitlam

watershed, as my colleague from Coquitlam Moody has recently pointed

out? What about the effect of fast-tracking when you haven't got

adequate environmental impact studies to prove that the finest drinking

water supply in the world of any city or region of that size is not

going to be negatively impacted? We have to be very concerned about the

quality of the water that that is going to go through. To say that they

want to start construction in two months' time is absolutely

unconscionable; it is ridiculous.

As I said, sustainable

development comes down to a question of political will. As well as the

fast-tracking of the Vancouver Island pipeline, there is evidence of

non-enforcement of the B.C. waste management regulations in the case of

persistent non-compliance. I'm referring here to the report that the

University of Victoria did in reference to Vancouver Island and

northern regions.

Third there's the refusal to release

information on the plans of mills to reduce dioxin levels. And fourth,

there's the embarrassing failure to defend the British Columbia

environment following the oil spill.

There's the failure to

put meaningful public participation procedures in place and land use

planning, such as in the case of the Cache Creek area landfill.

The

Environment ministry has shot itself in the foot by destroying the

environment lab and eliminating its opportunity to provide evenness in

terms of protecting the public good in the work of testing water

samples, checking calibrations on emissions and ensuring that the

proper standards in waste management permits are fulfilled.

Seventh

is the failure to adequately monitor the quality of air emissions. As

Mr. Sandberg has pointed out, there is the lack of checking for

accuracy.

There's the scandal of the False Creek lands: the

way that deal was handled, that it did not even take into consideration

the enormous cost of cleaning up that site, and the fact that the cost

is going to be left

[ Page 5660 ]

to the people of British Columbia, according to the very bad deal that was struck.

There's

the lack of leadership from this government with regard to waste

management, the after-the-fact approach to recycling that's coming

forward, maybe after many other more dramatic types of solutions have

been dealt with, such as incineration. Surely in the hierarchy of ways

of dealing with waste management, number one should be recycling.

That's where the leadership of this government should be coming from.

Tenth there's the situation with liquid waste, in which this government

has refused to provide the leadership necessary to enable municipalities, in

cooperation with the provincial and federal governments, to get on with the

task of proper treatment of liquid waste so that we're not dumping raw sewage

into the waters of British Columbia. We're finding that the desecration

of our environment is more and more impacting on such things as crustacean fisheries

and that toxic substances are showing up in finfish.

Looking

at the role of the ministry — what is that role? Is it to administer a

handful of acts and regulations? No. It is a mandate as big as all

outdoors, Mr. Speaker. That is how the Minister of Environment has to

understand his mandate, and the Premier has to have the political will

to enable that minister to fulfill his task in that way. Failure to

understand the mandate has resulted in a botched job of responding to

the oil spill. There wasn't the political will.

When the

Leader of the Opposition said yesterday in reference to the Minister of

Environment, he quoted him as having said: "We're ready to follow; just

tell us what to do." The minister asked across the floor: "When did I

say that?" Well, I wish the minister was here, because he said it on a

CBC morning program. He said that the Coast Guard has the lead role and

he's prepared to follow. This is horrendous. There's no political will

in that type of attitude; there's no vision. It's a myopic view. When

there is no vision, the people perish, and this is what's happening to

this planet. There are people in charge who do not have the vision that

is going to enable the protection of this planet, which is so necessary.

make that point, I refer now to a document from the Ministry of

Environment, file 61.153, dated February 17; it's signed by Bob

Langford and Brian Turner of the planning and assessment branch. It

lists 30 items for a meeting of directors within this ministry. It says:

"These are generic compliance and enforcement issues. The

following list of issues has been developed from discussions with regional and

Victoria staff and through a reading of the Canadian literature pertaining to

enforcement and compliance. The topics, which are tabulated below, will be presented

more fully in the discussion paper which is being completed for the Yellow Point

meeting."

I'm

going to read, somewhat quickly, these 30 items. But the point I want

to make very clear to you, Mr. Speaker, and to the people of British

Columbia is the language. This is not benign language; it's not just

one- or two-word headings. This is language that contains the passion

and concern of the employees of the Environment ministry, whose hearts

are broken over what they see going on out there. And you cannot fail

to see in this case that the medium is the message. Here's the list:

"l. Low public credibility of the ministry regarding enforcement of the province's environmental legislation.

"2. Lack of political support for enforcement of environmental legislation.

"3. Traditional reactive...role of the ministry.

"4. Lack of use, or improper use, of some of the ministry's existing enforcement instruments.

"5.

Many aspects of environmental protection for which the ministry should

be responsible are not enforceable because of lack of jurisdiction,

authority, agreements or procedures.

"6. Legislative inconsistencies among acts in terms of compliance and enforcement authority and procedures.

"7. Lack of ministry principles, policy or strategy for either compliance or enforcement.

"8. Lack of ministry analysis and priorization of compliance and enforcement issues and remedies.

"9. Lack of inter-program objectives for compliance and enforcement.

"10. Lack of inter-program objectives for environmental conservation and protection of terrestrial and aquatic ecosystems.

"11. General lack of specific written policies and procedures for each program regarding compliance and enforcement.

"12. Regional and program inconsistencies in application of compliance and enforcement.

"13. Lack of consistent issue-specific enforcement processes to yield an immediate response capability for minor infractions.

"14. Uncertainty regarding native Indian rights and the ministry's ability to enforce their activities.

"15.

Current menu-enforcement options too narrow to respond to the range of

compliance in enforcement situations confronting the ministry.

"16. Lack of enforceable permits and licences due to their terms or conditions being vague, indefensible or unmeasurable.

"17. Few or no economic incentives for abatement or conservation.

"18. Inadequate number of compliance and enforcement staff or funds in the ministry to do the job well.

"19. Inadequate training of technical enforcement staff to respond to the broad range of situations encountered.

"20. Lack of a public education reinforcement or support when complaints are received from the public.

"21. Poor effectiveness of prosecutions, lengthy process, low fines and penalties, inadequate support and training.

"22. Lack of experienced and dedicated environmental prosecutors.

"23. Lack of trained and experienced expert witnesses in the ministry.

"24. Ticketing systems incomplete, inconsistent, not supported and used inappropriately.

"25. Inadequate monitoring data upon which to base compliance and enforcement activities.

"26. Lack of critical technical and economic analysis of major compliance issues....

[ Page

5661 ]

"27. Lack of analysis and

interpretation of data to determine environmental risks and abatement priorities.

"28. Lack of economic analysis to determine abatement costs in relation to incentive policy options.

"29.

Lack of support for the development of environmental audit programs in

the private sector and municipal government to encourage environmental

accountability within the corporate structure.

"30. Excessive reliance on negotiation and coercion for the attainment of compliance in instances where this is inappropriate.

Mr.

Speaker, this is an indictment of the political albatross that this

government is to this ministry. This is horrendous. We find here in the

throne speech a government trying to do a patchwork job in dealing with

a legacy of neglect and abuse that has gone on for many years, and

somehow they hope that the public will roll over and play dead, and

somehow give them a pat on the back and say that what they're doing is

fine. Mr. Speaker, we have evidence in this that there is no

environmental will within this government whatsoever, and it has not

been a part of their makeup for quite some time.

response to the UVic study that pointed out that there was

non-enforcement of persistent offenders, the minister said: "Look, that

study was completed in 1987. That was before I was the minister. I'm a

new minister, and I am an enforcer." So with reference to the Vancouver

Island and North regions, I would want to put the minister on notice

with this question: what specifically, Mr. Minister, have you done with

regard to the information that was contained in that? I have heard the

minister speak on this in public. He tends to reply to a question about

apples with an answer about oranges. What he ends up doing is talking

about prosecutions in the lower mainland, which was not the area

studied. So, Mr. Minister, we on this side of the House, in the name of

political will, want to know just how much you have cleaned up your

government's act in terms of the regions that were studied by that UVic

report.

The fact that the minister would say "I am an

enforcer" is a sick joke. I refer you to a lawyer, Peter Ryan, a

private citizen who filed a private prosecution against the Woodfibre

mill. It was a well-documented case. It was done under the federal

Fisheries Act, using the Criminal Code. The minister has indicated that

he wants to see members of the public having the opportunity to do

their

part in the name of sustainable development in monitoring. But

here is a private citizen who is concerned about what is happening in

Howe Sound. He is concerned about the loss of the fishery and about

what's happening to the people who live in the area. What did this

enforcer's ministry do? It stood by while the Crown prosecutor's office

by an executive decision sent a person to visit the court registry in

Squamish. When they went to Squamish they quashed the proceedings. This

means that they don't have the political will. It means that they

aren't out there enabling the process to take place whereby this type

of situation will be dealt with. Mr. Speaker, this is cause of grave

concern to the people of this province.

It was the province

that decided to stay the proceedings, proceedings by a private citizen

who wants to do his part to protect the environment. It needs to be

recognized that the Attorney-General (Hon. S.D. Smith) has the power to

stay such proceedings. We have to ask how this squares with the

rhetoric of this government, as contained within this throne speech. I

think that this is why we need to see this government come in with

access-to-information legislation. We are providing them with the work

that needs to be done so they will know how to do it. It's contained

within the Canadian Environmental Protection Act. There is no reason

why they may not do that.

The kinds of concerns that have

been brought forward from people within the ministry come from

dedicated, ethical people who are committed. These people need to be

taken seriously. I want to say, in recognition of the minister, that

when Mr. Jim Walker's statement was released, the minister stated

publicly that Mr. Walker is a valued employee and that it was not the

ministry's role to punish that individual. I want to commend the

minister for that; I think that was appropriate. Surely these are

heartfelt concerns. These devastating critiques that come from within

the minister are really virtually cries for help.

You know,

Mr. Speaker, I thought that I might stand up in this house and call for

the minister to resign, in view of the very serious problems that exist

within this province, but I have looked over the other members of

cabinet and the back bench, and I don't believe there is anyone there

who has the political will. There's no one who could take this

minister's place, so I am not going to call for him to resign. However,

what happens in cabinet when he goes there to defend the environment

and when he is not able to fulfill his role?

[3:45]

would remind the members opposite — for anybody who would say they

endorse it — that the Bruncitland commission points out that the

ministry of the environment must be represented at the highest level of

decision-making. What do we get in this throne speech? We get a

ministry of the environment replacing a ministry of the environment.

That's a very interesting and unique move. I would think that maybe the

people who thought this up have resurrected the prayer room. Possibly

this is a new religious concept of reincarnation. How do you replace a

ministry of the environment with a ministry of the environment? I find

that quite confusing. I heard this explanation: that ministry was

actually demoted when he became a minister of state for one of the

fiefdoms in the province. If that's the case, why wasn't it announced

at that time that that ministry was being demoted in terms of its

relevance within the cabinet?

Now there's an inner cabinet

in this province, and that's the planning and priorities committee, or

policy and priorities committee. Anyway, it's that committee of

cabinet. That minister is not on that

[ Page 5662 ]

committee,

and therefore the environment is not represented in this province at

the highest level of decision-making. As Brundtland says, this

therefore relegates the Minister of Environment to a janitorial role.

Unless the Minister of Environment is present when those decisions are

being made, how can we expect that it is a proactive role that's taking

place? All the talk about new rules is not worth the paper they're

written on when we have such stark evidence of a lack of political will

that goes deeply into the heart of this government and right into the

Premier's office.

I did not come here to bury the minister.

I didn't come here to praise him, but to call on the Premier to bring

the environment into the inner cabinet. Let him show the political

will. Let him show that he really means it. Let him show that he

understands what he agreed to do when he said he endorsed the

Brundtland commission. You know the line from My Fair Lady , "Don't talk

of love, show me"? Get them to show us something that indicates they

mean what they say, because the legacy of the last several years is

that they really do not take this part of our life seriously.

Lyndon

Baines Johnson said: "I'm the only president we got." I suppose the

minister could say: "I'm the only minister we've got." I do not see the

inadequacy of the environment ministry as something that is a problem

of him as individual. It's a problem of the thinking and the philosophy

of this government, and that is a deep-rooted problem. It is a problem

that does not recognize the need to be supporting the very ground of

our being, the environment which makes it possible to have an economy,

which makes it possible to have sustainable development.

would say this in conclusion: without meaningful public input, there

can be no sustainable development. Without taking native people

seriously with regard to their rights, there can be no sustainable

development. Without access to information, there can be no sustainable

development. Without environment represented at the highest cabinet

level, there can be no sustainable development. Without recycling as a

first response to waste management, there can be no sustainable

development. Without a demonstrated track record on the ability to

protect the environment for our children's future. Without political

will, there is no sustainable development. This government stands at

the bar of the court of public confidence. It stands condemned.

HON. MR. REE :

Mr. Speaker, may I congratulate you on your election as Deputy Speaker

of this House. I know that with your vast past experience you will

adjudicate, in a fair, equitable and responsible manner, the problems

we may have between the various sides of the House from time to time.

It's

a pleasure to stand here today as the ministry responsible for the

first Solicitor-General's ministry in the province of British Columbia,

which was created last September. Solicitor-General's offices are not

unique in Canada; we have them in Alberta, Ontario, Quebec, New

But it is unique to British Columbia, and I have the honour to be the

minister responsible.

Three main mandates or provincial

responsibilities have been brought together under the one ministry:

police services, corrections and the motor vehicle branch. We do have

other ancillary responsibilities, but it is mainly to those three that

I have been addressing a great deal of my attention. Certainly there

are other things, like the very important provincial emergency program.

I guess one of the greatest values that the people of British Columbia

have through their government is the provincial emergency program,

which has some 6,700 volunteers. It's a measure of the people of

British Columbia that that number of them are volunteers to assist our

community in the event of emergencies.

With respect to the

three major components of the ministry, in essence they designate the

responsibility of the ministry as being that of public safety. I think

the main product of our ministry is public safety. As a result of

looking at it from that point of view, I have taken a great initiative

towards traffic safety, a

section of the public safety, to try to make

it safer for us as members of the community to travel on the highways

and byways of this province. The statistics of one person killed every

14 hours on the highway and one injured every 12 minutes on the highway

are completely unacceptable to me.

In supporting the Speech

from the Throne, I was very pleased to note that the speech makes

reference to the traffic initiatives and also to the proposal for

bringing in fines in addition to penalty points for offenders on our

highways for moving traffic offences. From that point of view, I am

certainly proud to stand here in support of the throne speech.

addition to public safety on the highways, the other public safety

aspect is that we can be safe in our homes from attack by other people —

that is, a custodial function in terms of those who commit serious

and violent crimes against the community. In that aspect, the ministry

is upgrading a large number of the correctional institutions and

always endeavouring to make them safer for us in our homes, so

that we

don't have to fear.

It is naturally with great distress

that we had this breakout from the Wilkinson facility yesterday

morning. It is distressful in that here are three individuals who have

not been adjudged as criminals yet; they were there on remand. They

have been charged with very serious crimes against the community; the

most serious possible crime of all — that is, murder. They certainly

should have been kept in strictest custodial conditions.

Indeed

we thought that they were, in that institution. The institution was

basically constructed — and the specifications were set — to prevent

people from breaking out. I don't think they were looked at from the

aspect of someone trying to break in. That is in essence what took

place there; it was help from people outside that allowed them to

escape. It was people, in a sense, from outside breaking into the

prison to create the access for them to get out. I admit

[ Page 5663 ]

the

accomplices they had from outside did not go into the prison, but they

made that opening big enough so those inside could get out.

Interjection.

HON. MR. REE :

Actually, it was felt that that type of institution, unlike Oakalla,

which is quote, question mark, period.... I think that says enough for

Oakalla. The Wilkinson institution is completely different and would

not need additional perimeter patrols because of its construction and

design.

Since the event, we have added on two additional

staff members at Wilkinson and hope this will not take place until we

complete the full study and look at the options we have to make the

institution safer than it is now. Obviously it's not safe when there is

outside assistance.

I said, great effort is going on to

create more updated institutions. We have the remand centre being

constructed in Surrey. We have the Fraser institute up in your riding,

Mr. Speaker, being constructed. Both these institutions should be

finished in late 1990 or earlier. We have a women's correctional centre

in the south end of Burnaby under construction. We've just recently

opened the Kamloops Regional Correctional Centre in Kamloops. There's a

facility in Prince George under construction. We're looking at a new

youth facility in Kamloops, and also I hope to eventually have the

replacement of Willingdon in Burnaby.

That will bring

British Columbia into the twenty-first century as far as institutional

facilities for prisoners are concerned. I think they are places that we

can be very proud of. The responsibility is not just to keep the

prisoners within four walls; we have a responsibility to allow the

rehabilitation of these prisoners so that we can let them back into the

community as valued members of the community who can contribute to our

community. It is necessary to have institutions which will, in essence,

help us in the rehabilitative mode rather than just the complete

confinement.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to make a comment

about an event that is going to be happening in this province this

year. It is one that very few people know of. It is a great event in

the city of Vancouver. There has not been a great deal of advertising

of it. We certainly hear about the Commonwealth Games coming to

Victoria in due course, but this event is far greater and bigger than

the Commonwealth Games. It is the second-largest sports Olympic in the

world. The ordinary Olympics are the largest; this one is next in size.

From July 29 to August 6 this year the British Columbia Police and Fire

Athletic Federation will be hosting the World Police and Fire Games III

in greater Vancouver. This is the third time it has been held. The

first one was held in San Jose. Two years later it was held in San

Diego, and in 1989 it is being held in Vancouver.

[4:00]

For the third Games we are expecting between 6,000 to 7,000

athletes to take

part in the sporting events. With their accompanying

families this figure should rise to around 15,000 people altogether

coming from.... The goal is 30 countries; 27 countries are already

listed as participating. If I might, Mr. Speaker, I'd like to mention

them: Canada, United States, Puerto Rico, Trinidad and Tobago, England,

Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales, France, the Netherlands,

West Germany, Belgium — the European Economic Community countries —

Austria, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Italy, Hong Kong, Macao, Japan,

Singapore, Australia, New Zealand, Bermuda and the Virgin Islands.

The

people in my ministry — the RCMP and municipal police forces, and the

corrections people — will all be participating and having a high profile

in these games. In addition, fire departments around British Columbia

will be participating.

Some 44 events will be taking place,

all the way from archery to wrestling. In between there is

crosscountry, triathlons, tug-of-war, volleyball, marathons, karate,

judo, horseshoes, handball, golf, etc. It is going to be a really

exciting time. Up to now it has fairly well been ignored. We have

talked more about the Commonwealth Games here in Victoria, but these

Police and Fire Games are a big event worldwide, and I think they are

something we can be very proud of.

I hope all members of

this House will participate by attending these events from time to

time. They will be taking place, as I said, in greater Vancouver. That

includes B.C. Place Stadium, the facilities at UBC, Simon Fraser

University and Central Park in Burnaby. Minoru Park will be the site

for the track and field events. Gymnasiums located throughout the

Bay is the location for the open-water swim, as well as the triathlon

event. Other events will take place at the Vancouver Aquatic Centre.

I think it will be an exciting time for greater Vancouver, and certainly for the police and corrections people in my industry.

guess in the throne speech we often comment on our own ridings. Mine,

as you know, is North Vancouver–Capilano. I think it's one of the most

desirable places in the province, but I'm very pleased this year that

the Minister of Highways (Hon. Mr. Vant) has put out for tender the

construction, eventually, of an overpass at the intersection of

Lonsdale and the Upper Levels Highway. I've spoken on this issue.... I

guess the first time was in 1979, and since those days I've spoken many

times on it — not necessarily here, but I've worn out the carpet on the

way to the various Ministers of Highways.

It's almost like

a birthday this year to have it finally announced. The people of North

Vancouver–Capilano — in fact of all of the North Shore — and those who

travel to Whistler and use that highway are very pleased.

Now

that I've got that one going, maybe I should start talking about the

next one. But I don't know, since it's taken me ten years to get this

one, whether

[ Page 5664 ]

it will take me ten years to get the next intersection at Westview and the Upper Levels.

MR. JONES : What's the completion date?

HON. MR. REE : It will be about two years.

MR. JONES : After the election.

HON. MR. REE :

When I will be back here. You bring up an interesting issue there, and

I guess we should feel kindly to the two new members from Point Grey

and Nanaimo. I see that they also will swell the educational background

of the majority of the members of the opposition. Most of them come

from that elite

section of our community: teachers, college

instructors, professors and that sort of thing. The majority of the

members of the opposition come from the educational side. I do

recognize that there are a few others.

We don't have,

except possibly the member for Prince Rupert (Mr. Miller).... He's

about the only true, old CCF working-type person that gave the great

impetus to the old, honourable CCF which the opposition no longer

represents. They have gone for it and now they are participating in

glasnost. They switched around. The orders have come from Moscow

because of the new change, the new attitude.

We have the

Leader of the Opposition standing up here. We have the member for North

Island (Mr. Gabelmann), who has sat in this House over 20 years, I

imagine, now turning round and saying he has learned he was wrong. Now,

after 20 years here, he has just learned. They remind me of Mexican

jumping beans: flipping and flopping back so quickly you can't tell

which side is up. It's interesting. I certainly commend the member for

Prince Rupert. He's about the only one that is really of the

background of the people that formed the CCF, which was a most

commendable political party.

Mr. Member, I would love to

see that member introducing the piece of legislation they're talking

about: banning the export of logs. I would like to have him stand up

and tell us about the ills of exporting logs in British Columbia.

MR. MILLER : Are you defending the export of raw logs?

HON. MR. REE :

Some logs should be exported, yes. But I would like you, Mr. Member for

Prince Rupert, to turn around and say that you are averse to it, and I

don't think you will.

MR. MILLER : Are you defending the export of raw logs?

HON. MR. REE : Yes.

I sat at a table one time with the Leader of the Opposition, and I remember

a person there telling him that he was the best thing that ever happened to

Social Credit, and I agree. That is why I was really very pleased with the results

of the last four by-elections. Had they gone the other way the Leader of the

Opposition would not be there any longer. He's the best thing for us at

the next election, and it's final elections that count. At the next election

we know how the people of British Columbia will go because they know they can't

understand or trust what the philosophy of the opposition is going to be from

one day to the next.

They

talk about allowing people to acquire capital, but I look at their

proposed legislative program.... If anyone wanted to kill the number

one industry of this province, the forests.... That's their goal.

Moratoriums — stop, do this, do nothing. They've got two acts in there

that say not to do anything. But that has always been the philosophy of

the Leader of the Opposition. He did nothing as mayor of Vancouver

except put up barricades which stopped people from traveling down

certain roads. He was against everything else, and he still supports

that. The people of British Columbia should look at that proposed

legislation and understand what that will do to the whole economy of

this province: it will kill it.

MR. MILLER : Why don't you defend the Premier?

HON. MR. REE :

I will defend the Premier. I have defended the Premier, and I continue

to defend the Premier. To me he's the best man for leader of this

province. This province is now economically better off than it has ever

been before. For a team to do what this government has done, it has to

have a quality, top-notch leader, and that's what we have in this

province. I'll defend our Premier any time, but I sure as heck would be

embarrassed to defend your leader.

Interjection.

HON. MR. REE : We want you to keep your leader, because he's the best thing for us.

would love to hear comments on the pipeline from the new and existing

members for Nanaimo, in comparison to the comments by the member for

Maillardville-Coquitlam (Mr. Cashore), who again was calling for

moratoriums. "Hold up, stop, don't do anything" — that's what we've

always had from the opposition; that's what happened between '72 and

'75.

But as I say, I am very proud to stand up here and

support the throne speech. I think it is the best throne speech I have

heard in my ten years in this chamber.

MR. MILLER : The Premier said it was the best in the history of this province.

HON. MR. REE :

That may very well be, Mr. Member. He may be right. I am judging it

only on my ten years of experience here. It was the most positive

throne speech, the most definitive as to what this government is going

to do this session. Therefore, when the vote is called next week, I

will be only too proud to stand up on the yea side.

[ Page 5665 ]

MR. GUNO :

I can't help but make a comment on the last speaker's closing remarks.

I think that you have damned the member for Prince Rupert (Mr. Miller)

with excessive praise about his CCF roots — but we'll take it.

AN HON. MEMBER : He's not an elitist like the rest of you.

MR. GUNO : You know all about elitists.

Anyway,

it's good to be back, Mr. Speaker. It's been nine months. These

believers in democracy have decided to call this forum back into

session. I genuinely feel that it is a privilege to take

part in the

throne speech debate, even if there is really little to debate about

this particular one.

Throne speeches, I gather, are a

blueprint setting out the government's agenda for the future. But as

throne speeches go, this one is rather a mixed bag. In fact, it's all

over the map. It touches on all sorts of things: the environment,

education, the economy. It even talks about setting up a new ministry

for women's affairs, a Premier's council on native affairs, and so on.

I am reminded of Stephen Leacock's comic imagery of the cowboy who

runs out of his house, jumps on his horse, and proceeds to ride out in

all directions.

This newfound interest in all these matters

by the Socred government would be laughable if not for the fact that it

is an implicit — actually explicit — admission of neglect in all these

vital areas.

I think one cannot be faulted for asking

whether this newfound conversion is genuine or the usual cynicism of

this government to try and hoodwink the public, to regain the public

favour that they've lost so much of in the last while, whether it is an

attempt to buy back public confidence. I don't think it's going to

work; I think most of the speakers from this side have pointed out the

reason why.

[4:15]

There is a discernible pattern here. If you look at the world scene,

you see that these right-wing governments have suddenly become

concerned about the environment. You read about Thatcher's newfound

interest in the environment, in social safety nets. You see Mulroney

when the election was called talking about his newfound concern about

the environment. And of course, we have George Bush, who talks about a

kinder and gentler nation. There is kind of a flip-flop from the other

side that has a fairly discernible pattern, but it also has a definite

hollow ring to it.

As I said, this kind of conversion is,

I think, a confession that their laissez-faire ideology is losing

public support. The public is becoming more and more concerned about

the price of this kind of untrammelled capitalism in terms of

environment degradation — which is global — and the growing disparity

between rich and poor. Some time ago, President Kennedy talked about

the rising tide lifting all vessels; this particular rise in the

economic tide lifts only a few. The rest, especially in the north, are mired into the deep, absolutely out of sight.

I think a

lot of this was captured in a speech in the movie Wall Street , where

the main character made a speech to the members of a particular

company. He talked about greed: that greed is good, it works, it is the

engine of our economy, and so forth.

We don't support that

approach, Mr. Speaker. The New Democrats are for growth and the

creation of wealth, but not at any cost. I support the leader's speech

the other day, wherein he sets out some pretty realistic long-term

priorities for our province. He talks about managing our natural

resources to provide sustainable economic opportunities for working

people. I think that the people in the north will wholly support this

concept, because it doesn't only mean sustainability; it also means

real decentralization of decision-making. It recognizes that local

people are best able to judge what economic priorities are suitable

for their region.

Our leader talked about managing our

natural resources to provide sustainable economic opportunities for

resolving resource and land use conflicts, to move away from the myopic

view that this government has in terms of single resource use.

Another

priority identified in the leader's speech was increasing the level of

value-added opportunities, thereby generating new jobs, especially in

the north. The Solicitor-General (Hon. Mr. Ree) asked if we were

against banning log exports. I don't think that we're so insensitive as

to say that we should have a total ban now. There ought to be a

transition for the people who have to depend on log exports right now,

because there is nothing else for them; there is no alternative. In

Stewart they have been talking about creating a value-added mill.

Our

leader also talked about protecting the quality of our environment for

families and children. If you only drive the Nass Valley, you will see

the need for immediate attention in terms of protecting our

environment. The fact is, there was incredible mismanagement of the

forest resource there, and as a result we have an economic backwater,

where in each community it is not unusual to have something like 90

percent unemployment. For the children in that area there is no future

while we are under this particular government, which is insensitive to

these kinds of problems.

Finally, another priority that the

leader spoke about was preserving our beautiful scenery and wilderness

resources for future generations. Atlin, which is one of the biggest

areas, has only one conservation officer. Many management decisions in

our forest policy are based on wholly inadequate data. I just can't see

how we can adequately protect our wilderness resources as long as this

very basic agency is underfunded.

Mr. Speaker, not only

will the New Democrats put forward concrete actions to show our

commitment to sustainable development, but we will continue to develop

the concept to demonstrate the possibilities that flow from this

exciting program. As I said, it doesn't deal just with economics. It

deals with government. It deals with a way of life, new values that we

have to take into account. It certainly

[ Page 5666 ]

presents better opportunities for the people in the north.

biggest beef about the throne speech was that it said very little about

the concerns of the people who live in northern and rural communities.

It concentrates on the southern lower mainland. There is nothing about

economic initiatives to provide more new jobs for our young people so

that they would not be forced to leave their homes in order to find

jobs in the south. While the throne speech touches on issues that have

been ignored in the past, it is consistent in not dealing with the

concerns of northern people.

There is much challenge in

living in an area like Atlin. For people there, the advantages outweigh

the disadvantages. Sometimes we in the north feel somewhat alienated

because of the indifference of our southern neighbours. This government

has done little to bridge that gap.

Today we heard the

minister of state talk about decentralization, although that was not

dealt with in the throne speech, which is curious in light of the fact

that they expended $8 million last year to launch this rather curious

distortion of the word "decentralization."

I have an

editorial from the Terrace Standard , dated March 1, entitled "Road to

Votes." It talks about the fact that in B.C. you spell progress

p-a-v-e-m-e-n-t — miles and miles of it. It talks about politicians

loving pavement, for it spells something that is being done. I want to

quote a couple of paragraphs about this whole process of so-called

decentralization.

"Lately, this process has

been refined through two areas: the creation of economic development

regions and the release of a provincial transportation strategy. The

first is being used by the provincial government as a way of saying it

is decentralizing power, while the second is supposed to give us an

indication of what is needed into the next century.

"What

we have now is a committee of northwest mayors and others designated by

the provincial government to give advice on transportation needs. The

idea is that this committee draws up a list, it's given to a minister

of state for this economic development region, who then gives it to

cabinet, which then makes some sort of decision. No real power is given

to this committee. It won't be able to allocate budgets and won't have

any control over events once the action moves to Victoria. What it will

do is neatly fit into the provincial government's public relations

machine. Any action coming out of Victoria will be construed as having

been the idea of this transportation committee. Everything will be

nice, neat and tidy. There are enough votes for all the miles and miles

of pavement."

Just recently the committee on transportation

was in my area holding hearings, receiving presentations. The whole

process will probably take about a year. By the time it comes down,

decisions will be made about the transportation priorities of this

province, and once again the highway priorities in the north will be

ignored. So much for decentralization.

I want to talk about

the creation of the Premier's Council on Native Affairs. I think the

Great White Father is alive and well and living in Victoria in the

guise of the Premier. He does send forward his emissary, the

well-meaning member for South Peace River (Hon. Mr. Weisgerber), to

meet with Indian leaders and elders, who will patiently listen and

receive this person. But as an aboriginal person, I find the concept of

the Premier's council an affront to our people; it is highly

paternalistic. It's another advisory group set up to delay dealing with

this important issue. This problem has been studied to death. It has

been studied since 1968 and even beyond that. I would refer the

government to the Coolican report, which sets out a comprehensive

outline as to how this matter can be dealt with.

If the

Premier feels that this is an effort to get the aboriginal people to

blow off steam and to divert attention from the main problem, it's not

going to work. The government has not come to grips with the fact that

the first nations have aboriginal title — that is borne out by a

growing number of legal judgments — and they want to negotiate. I don't

think this problem is going to go away. No matter how this government

attempts to dance around the issue, it's going to be there. We have a

new generation of leaders that is going to continue the fight. I think

it's in the interests of this province, of the people of British

Columbia, that this matter be dealt with fairly and that a negotiation

process begin. The trinkets-and-beads approach will not fool the

aboriginal people, who want nothing short of a just resolution of their

aboriginal rights.

As I said, there was very little mention

of economic initiatives with regard to the north. A number of

committees have been established to study a range of issues, but they

are really geared to show that the government is attempting some form

of decentralization. I think it's a sham; it continues to circumvent

the established political process by not providing local governments

with the kind of authority they need to deal with local problems and

local priorities.

This government can't be serious about

its newfound interest in the environment. I think it's almost

antithetical to its whole philosophy of laissez-faire. This government

has a mind-set; it's all for big bucks for a few, big business for a

few, big power for a few. It ought to look at what Eric Klerans and

Walter Gordon have to say in their book, The Wrong End of the Rainbow:

The Collapse of Free Enterprise in Canada . These guys do know about

free enterprise. They talk about the new role of money. I want to quote

a couple of passages, just for the edification of the people on the

other side of this House, who have a penchant for money on its own.

[4:30]

"The purpose of a financial system is to channel money into

productive uses, to promote the kind of investment that will increase

the output of goods and services and so contribute to the improved

standard of living of people everywhere." It talks about the

utilization of these funds: "These investment funds will not only be in

factories and research but in the improvement of human skills,

education and health, as well as in the development of an

infrastructure of transportation, communication and resource technol-

[ Page 5667 ]

ogy." It further talks about the objective of the state, which is to

develop, grow and produce a suitable standard of living for its people. It is

not, or ever ought to be, primarily an instrument for the enrichment of individuals

and corporations."

terms of some specific items that impact on my constituents in Atlin, I

want to turn briefly to education. I think that the need to invest in

the improvement of human skills of northern people is as urgent as it

is for the people in the south. There are particular challenges in

providing education for northern people. Costs of materials and

transportation are generally higher. The problem in dealing with these

higher costs is that the funding formula has often been unpredictable,

so that it has been very difficult for many of our educators to

consistently plan from year to year.

Things that are taken

for granted in the south — extracurricular activities like traveling to

various sports events — are becoming more and more impossible for our

northern students, depriving them of a very essential part of

education, especially for northern native communities: social

interaction.

I don't really see anything.... We'll have to

see whether or not the Minister of Education (Hon. Mr. Brummet) has

allocated anything in the budget to meet these rising costs, rather

than just capping the funding and forcing the school districts to have

the local homeowners pay a disproportionately higher amount of tax in

communities like Dease Lake, Cassiar and Atlin.

I really

wanted to comment on some of the comments by the member for

Burnaby-Edmonds (Mr. Mercier), who was the first speaker. It was rather

puzzling. I wondered if he had actually read the throne speech. I am

not sure why he felt compelled to lecture this House about the history

of parliament. I am always willing to give every member the benefit of

the doubt that they know what parliamentary democracy is all about. I

certainly don't think that we on this side of the House need his

gratuitous lectures on the rule of law, but perhaps the hon. member had

a particular audience in mind. As I said, his speech was quite puzzling.

think the throne speech is short on vision and concrete action. We New

Democrats have set out some very concrete things that we feel are much

needed to turn around the mess that this government has created for the

people of British Columbia.

In

summary, I think the speech

was a transparent effort to gloss over the neglect of this government

in many vital areas: the economy, education and the environment. I

don't think it will be lost on the people of British Columbia, and I

think they will increasingly turn to the New Democrats for an

alternative vision.

HON. MR. DIRKS : It's with a

great sense of honour and privilege that I rise today to support the

Speech from the Throne delivered by His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor,

David Lam, last Thursday.

This throne speech, I believe,

will be a very memorable one in the history of this distinguished

chamber. The initiatives announced in the speech are innovative and are

designed to respond to the needs of British Columbians today. But they

are also, perhaps more importantly, a foundation for this great

province to move into the twenty-first century.

I'd like

today just to relate some of the different announcements from the

throne speech to another government initiative that is very important

to me, as it is to every member of the government and to every citizen

of this great province. I am referring to this government's major

initiative of regionalization.

I've been fortunate to be

involved in this initiative right from the start. Having worked through

the initial growing pains, I am confident in saying today that the

program is well underway and is beginning to show very concrete

results. It makes sense that the impetus for development and guidance

of planning and priorities comes from within the regions affected. I am

very pleased to hear the last speaker refer to the idea of

regionalization and grassroots involvement, because that is truly what

we have.

The wealth of experience and energy the concerned

individuals in the regions have to offer should be focused on the

development that is so essential to their growth and continued quality

of life. The people of British Columbia's communities are this

province's strengths. Their ability to rise to a challenge and their

desire to take

part in charting their own future are assets. It is

something that communities throughout this province hold in common.

Part

of that process of helping to develop the economy of the regions is

making suppliers of goods and services in the different areas aware of

what is available in the way of government resources, and we're doing

just that. I was very pleased to hear that the B.C. Business Network in

the Enterprise Centre experienced a 22 percent increase in requests for

information in 1989. As well, there will be 20 new community business

information centres established this year, getting the information out

to the regions. I can tell you that aspect of regionalization is

working.

This is also a very important and fundamental tool

for achieving the B.C. we want for the future. It is a meaningful part

of this government's initiative, and it will continue to be. We are all

sharing in this endeavour across the province. As you can see from our

economic situation, all parts of this province are reaping the rewards

of these efforts. I'm proud of what we have accomplished to date, and

I'm convinced that if we carry along this road with enthusiasm, we can

be sure of continued prosperity.

The announcement of a task

force on employment in the throne speech is certainly very timely and

extremely worthwhile. Again, it relates directly to what is going on in

the Kootenay region. In the Kootenay development region, a workforce

task force was established in the spring of 1988. The task force was

made up of local representatives, elected people and representatives

from the various industries.

The task force coordinated a

questionnaire sent out to approximately 3,200 employers in the

Kootenay region. The purpose of this questionnaire was to try to assess

future skill requirements from

[ Page 5668 ]

the area's workforce, and what kind of training such a future workforce might require.

Local

input. In response to this survey, the workforce task force requested

that a more in-depth study be undertaken. I'm pleased to say today that

that study has been completed in its draft form, and I will be able to

release it in the near future. This was the first of such studies that

has ever been carried out in one of the interior regions. No doubt part

of that study will conclude that, as was noted in the throne speech,

knowledge-based industries will be the main generator of new jobs in

the future.

In that regard, I was very pleased to be in

Fernie a week ago to make an announcement on behalf of the Minister of

Advanced Education and Job Training (Hon. S. Hagen). It was an

announcement of a $625,000 grant to upgrade the East Kootenay

Community College. The funds will be used to replace overcrowded

classrooms and offices with a newly refurbished building.

This

grant is just one of the many demonstrations of this government's

continuing committment to strengthen the community colleges and

increase access to advanced education in all areas of the province. I

doubt that there is anyone in this House or in the province who would

disagree that our children are our most precious asset, and that the

quality of their education will directly affect the quality of their

lives and the quality of life for all British Columbians.

that regard, the announcements regarding British Columbia's education

system involve some very new and exciting ideas. I believe that the

thrust of the new school act is that the process of education should be

learner-driven. That is what education should be all about. It should

be driven by the benefactor of the system: the learner.

The

increased access to post-secondary education as announced by the

Minister of Advanced Education and Job Training is also good news for

this province's youth.

MR. JONES : What happened to the Kootenays?

HON. MR. DIRKS :

Let me tell you what happened in the Kootenays. Unfortunately, today I

read in the paper that there are a bunch of negative Nellies out there

who are raining on a good parade. They are looking at the negative

things, and they are harking back to the old days. They are saying:

"What happened? Why are we forgotten?" We weren't forgotten, Mr.

Speaker.

[Mr. Rabbitt in the chair.]

Let me

tell you there will be more emphasis on first- and second-year courses

at Selkirk College and East Kootenay Community College as and when the

market requires it. We are the keeper of the taxpayers' dollars, and

there's no point in putting something in place that is not utilizing

the dollars and cents in the wisest fashion.

The

announcement that Okanagan College in Kelowna will be expanded to

third- and fourth-year classes certainly makes university education

much more readily accessible to the people in my region, and I applaud

that. Somehow we always have to look at the negative side. We have to

hear about all these bad things. Like I said to the press: "There are

negative Nellies. Unfortunately, they're all on the other side of the

House."

We're very positive. It is a great program.

Certainly when you combine this announcement with the initiatives taken

by the Ministry of Education, our education system certainly will be

one that we can be proud of well into the future.

I was very pleased too to see that the throne speech dealt with environmental issues.

MR. MILLER : It came as a surprise, eh?

HON. MR. DIRKS :

By listening to the briefs that were submitted to the Minister of

Forests (Hon. Mr. Parker) in Nelson, my colleague across there is

obviously very aware that environmental issues are very important in my

riding. And well they should be, because we do live in a very beautiful

spot.

He asked me a little while ago why I did not speak at

those hearings. Obviously he does not understand what hearings are all

about. The hearings were also for me to listen to what the constituents

had to say, not talk, as he would have me do.

As we enter

this twenty-first century, we will now more than ever before have to

allow our environment to flourish as well as maintaining and providing

long-term jobs and economic well-being for the province. It is our

right to expect clean water and air for ourselves and our children.

[4:45]

At the same time there are many people employed in the forest and

mining industries who also have the right to continue to make a living

and put food on their tables for their children. This is where

coexistence comes into the picture. We don't want to devastate our

landscape or our environment. We must admit that we are, to a very

large degree — especially in my area — a resource-based economy. Some

of our livelihoods must be made in that area. To deprive these people

of their living is certainly not reasonable — any more than haphazard

destructive logging or logging practices would be. How we achieve that

balance is very important to my constituents, and I am very pleased

that this government is addressing that task.

The beauty

of our area and the quality of life that we so enjoy has made my

constituency a very desirable location for people reaching retirement

age. Therefore I am exceptionally pleased with the initiatives

mentioned in the throne speech that relate to the security and health

of our senior citizens.

Especially important is the task

force to meet with seniors throughout the province. This is a

worthwhile endeavour. I hope they will visit the beautiful town of

Creston where I have a number of senior citizens who I am sure will be

able to make very worthwhile presentations.

[ Page 5669 ]

I was pleased also to see that our government will introduce an employee

equity program. Employee equity programs — or ESOPs, as they have come

to be known — have enjoyed runaway popularity wherever they have been

introduced. The reason for ESOPs' great success is that they serve to

benefit employee and employer alike to the overall improvement of the

company involved. Companies utilizing employee equity programs have

experienced increased morale and productivity resulting in growth in

profits and return on investment. Workers respond to ownership with

corporate loyalty.

An announcement in the throne speech

regarding the proposed energy policy in conjunction with the Ministry

of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources electricity strategy is very

good news for the province. It relates again directly to the Kootenay

development region.

The expansion of the reforestation program is certainly good news to my constituency.

The

initiatives to develop legislation to address consumer concerns

respecting the use of chemicals in food production and ensuring

environmentally sensitive food processing methods are also of great

interest to my constituents.

I could go on and on, but I

would be remiss if I did not respond to the mention of my home town of

Nelson in the Speech from the Throne. I popped the buttons on my shirt

with pride when I heard Nelson mentioned. I felt a rekindling of the

immense pride of community experienced when over 4,500 v