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October 29, 2013

40th Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2013-Oct-29 (PDF)

L078 - Tue 29 Oct 2013 / Mar 29 oct 2013

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Tuesday 29 October 2013 Mardi 29 octobre 2013

ORDERS OF THE DAY

SUPPORTING SMALL

BUSINESSES ACT, 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 VISANT À SOUTENIR

LES PETITES ENTREPRISES

WEARING OF PINS

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

ORAL QUESTIONS

JOB CREATION

ONTARIO ECONOMY

ENERGY POLICIES

AIR QUALITY

PAN AM GAMES

HORSE RACING INDUSTRY

RURAL ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT

AIR QUALITY

MINING INDUSTRY

PUBLIC TRANSIT

HOSPITAL FUNDING

WORKPLACE SAFETY

ACCESS TO INFORMATION

ONTARIO SOCIETY

FOR THE PREVENTION

OF CRUELTY TO ANIMALS

CORRECTION OF RECORD

DEFERRED VOTES

FAIRNESS AND COMPETITIVENESS

IN ONTARIO’S CONSTRUCTION

INDUSTRY ACT, 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 SUR L’ÉQUITÉ

ET LA COMPÉTITIVITÉ DANS L’INDUSTRIE ONTARIENNE

DE LA CONSTRUCTION

NOTICE OF DISSATISFACTION

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS

COMMUNITIES IN BLOOM AWARDS

EDUCATION FUNDING

ANNIVERSARY OF FOUNDING

OF TURKEY

COMMUNITIES IN BLOOM AWARDS

ECONOMIC INEQUALITY

BIG BROTHERS BIG SISTERS

INFRASTRUCTURE PROGRAM FUNDING

RODERICK MCDONALD

GEORGETOWN HOSPITAL

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT AGENCIES

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

MEMBERS’ ACCOMMODATION

ALLOWANCES ACT, 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 SUR LES ALLOCATIONS

DE LOGEMENT DES DÉPUTÉS

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

AND RESPONSES

EMPLOYMENT SUPPORTS

PETITIONS

WIND TURBINES

OFFICE OF THE OMBUDSMAN

CELLULAR TRANSMISSION EQUIPMENT

DARLINGTON NUCLEAR

GENERATING STATION

BEAR HUNTING

PHYSIOTHERAPY SERVICES

TAXATION

SMALL BUSINESS

DIABETES

SMALL BUSINESS

AIR QUALITY

BEAR HUNTING

ORDERS OF THE DAY

WIRELESS SERVICES

AGREEMENTS ACT, 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 SUR LES CONVENTIONS

DE SERVICES SANS FIL

WASTE REDUCTION ACT, 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 SUR LA RÉDUCTION

DES DÉCHETS

ADJOURNMENT DEBATE

ONTARIO COLLEGE OF TRADES

JOB CREATION

INVASIVE SPECIES

The House met at 0900.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Good morning. Please join me in prayer.

Prayers.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

SUPPORTING SMALL

BUSINESSES ACT, 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 VISANT À SOUTENIR

LES PETITES ENTREPRISES

Resuming the debate adjourned on October 28, 2013, on the motion for second reading of the following bill:

Bill 105,

An Act to amend the Employer Health Tax Act / Projet de loi 105, Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l’impôt-santé des employeurs.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): We have questions and comments. The member from Welland. Were you standing on a point of order?

Ms. Cindy Forster: No, actually, I was standing up to start my debate here on this.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): We have questions and comments remaining on the speech from the member from Stormont–Dundas–South Glengarry. Would you like to make the two-minuter?

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from London–Fanshawe.

Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong: I’d like to speak to Bill 105, supporting small business, here today, the reason being how important small business is to each and every one of our ridings, and how we should be supporting small business because we know that small business is the heart of our community. They’re the employers; they generate a strong economy in our neighbourhoods. It’s so important.

I know I heard yesterday—I was debating the bill, and it sounds like all parties are supporting this bill, which is what should be done; it’s the right thing to do.

We also heard comments from the Liberals that there’s enough debate, let’s pass this bill through—everybody agrees—but I don’t take that sentiment. I’m very proud that I live in a democratic society and we are a democratic government, and that means that each one of us represents our voices in our riding, my particular one being London–Fanshawe. Each time I have an opportunity to stand up and speak and debate and comment on bills, I will, because I am bringing their voices to the House. Therefore, to me, it doesn’t matter if we speak 12 hours or 13 hours; if a member hasn’t spoken to this bill, it is their right to stand here and speak on behalf of their constituents.

So I am looking forward to more debate. I’m looking forward to hearing perhaps any new comments or new suggestions or people’s views from their riding. I’m happy to be here this morning and I’m looking forward to more continued debate.

Once this bill does get passed, Speaker, rest assured we’re going to support this bill. We’re going to do the work that we’ve always done in the Legislature. We’re going to make this bill the best bill ever, because we want to actually make it effective and support small business so that small business can thrive in each and every one of our neighbourhoods, and we can enjoy the benefits of shopping local. We’re here to support local business and small businesses in our area.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Questions and comments?

Hon. John Milloy: I was here last night and had an opportunity to hear the member’s speech. I’m going to echo, actually, what my colleague from the NDP just said. As a number of us had stated in our speeches, it’s time to move on with this bill.

I think the statistic that I quoted yesterday—and obviously it has grown since then—is that if you include the two-minute responses, over 50 members have spoken to this bill. There have been hours and hours of debate, and I would like to address head-on this myth that by saying a bill should move forward we’re somehow stifling debate. When one reads the order papers of this Legislature or looks at the Legislative Assembly Act, it is predicated on the fact that there is usually, and I’ll give the number, about six and a half hours of debate that is allowed for a bill.

After that point, a government can move time allocation. There are opportunities in the standing orders for closure, where someone can come up and say, “Look, the debate has reached its natural course and it’s time to move on.”

The crocodile tears, particularly from the NDP, bring me back to a very, very important debate in this Legislature that was taking place about one of our colleagues, the former Minister of Energy, when we had many speakers on this side of the House who wanted to speak in defence of him and the NDP stood up with the Conservatives and voted for closure so that they could stifle democracy. It’s a little much for that member and her colleagues to stand up when we’ve just had hour after hour of debate, dozens and dozens of speakers. Everyone agrees with this bill. Let us pass it, move on to the next stage and allow for further consideration of it.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Questions and comments?

Mr. John O’Toole: I was here when the member from Stormont–Dundas–South Glengarry made very clear, as representative, the support that our side has for small business. I should make it clear that we would be supporting the bill at second reading and moving forward with amendments during committee time. Those amendments would address the real, serious issues here of the treachery that’s in this bill, and that is the capping. This bill purports to give a break to small business, but what it really does, in light of other things, is put a payroll cap on it so that you don’t qualify at a certain level of income, and that’s probably the biggest problem with the bill. We’ll probably change that.

But if you look at the other things they’ve done, the CFIB is constantly saying the biggest detriment to small business is the amount of red tape. Then we have the WSIB changes, where you’re taxing the actual people who create jobs, who aren’t on the job site. If you go on to look at the harmonization of the HST, the price for gas alone went up 13 cents overnight. Why? It was because of the harmonization of the provincial sales tax and the GST.

When you look at the tax load in Ontario, every hour or two, I think we’re spending a million dollars more than we’re taking in as revenue. Ontario has a serious problem. Who is supposed to be bailing us out? It’s small business. They’re the real job creators in Ontario. This does nothing for the Canadian Tire store in your community, for the pharmacy in your community. For these small businesses that invest their money to create their own job and jobs for 50 or 60 other people, this bill does nothing. It’s about $900 that wouldn’t buy a decent newspaper advertisement for their business. All money out of their pockets, to be wasted right here in Ontario by the Liberal government.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Questions and comments?

Ms. Catherine Fife: It’s a pleasure to stand up this morning and make some comments based on the member from Stormont-Glengarry’s remarks. Yesterday, he actually made some very good points. He said that when this government brings forward a piece of legislation, they sort of miss the ball a little bit. It’s actually a consistent theme that we’ve seen. The legislation that’s brought forward has huge gaps in some common sense pieces, and certainly Bill 105 needs to be made stronger.

We’ve adopted a different strategy: We’re going to get it to committee, but we’re going to have a fulsome debate about it. We see that as our responsibility. It’s interesting that my colleague the member from Kitchener Centre always says, “It’s passing strange.” I’d never heard this saying before I sat in this House.

Interjection.

Ms. Catherine Fife: No, “passing strange.” There’s another one: “Be that as it may.” But it’s passing strange that he’s complaining that we’re continuing to debate on this, because prior to the Monty Hall, Let’s Make a Deal deal with the Conservatives on Bill 74, the piece about the Liberals sort of dragging out every little piece of legislation because they didn’t have anything new or innovative to bring forward—that’s what you were doing prior to the Let’s Make a Deal moment.

Ms. Cindy Forster: That was our bill.

Ms. Catherine Fife: Yes. So now we have something on calories in restaurants. These are not ideas that are going to strengthen or boost the economy. If you follow through on some of the ideas that we brought forward, however, on youth employment, the home care piece—let’s put that into action. Let’s address auto insurance. That’s what our commitment is. We sat down with you throughout the budget process. We’re going to make sure you do what you said you’d do, and we’re going to have a fulsome debate on Bill 105 because that’s our job.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Thank you. The member has two minutes to respond.

Mr. Jim McDonell: Thank you, Speaker. I enjoyed the comments from the member from London–Fanshawe, the Minister of Government Services, the member from Durham and the member for Kitchener–Waterloo.

The member from London–Fanshawe talked about being proud to exercise her democratic right. We share that belief on this side. I see from the Minister of Government Services that they’re hearing but they’re not listening. I think she was very clear that she wanted this debate and she thought it was important,

whereas he took something else from that same comment. It’s hard to believe, but I think we see that so much in this government, because small business is crying out for help, and you look at the taxes that this government has raised on them over the years, doubling them. As was mentioned yesterday, soon the only small businesses we’ll have left here are the ones that can’t afford to move; they really can’t move because they service the direct public. Anybody who has the option of leaving this province to gain some of the benefits from our neighbours’ low energy rates and low taxes is doing so.

Recently, the Canadian government was working on a deal with Europe. That certainly allows us to sell our goods over there, but it also allows our businesses to leave and work over there if it’s a more appropriate place to produce profits and ship them back to us. We have to be careful. The world is a competitive forum now, where people can work where they want, move where they want, choose where they feel the best benefits are.

We no longer have what’s considered the best health care in this country. We’ve let other provinces take that banner away from us. Unfortunately, we’re spiralling to the bottom, and I think we need a change in government so that we can make that change and come back to where we can be. Ontario has great potential, and we want to make sure we release that.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Further debate?

Ms. Cindy Forster: I’m here today to speak about Bill 105, a good bill. While this bill is going to address a very small issue for small business in this province—and we need to know that there are hundreds of thousands of small businesses in this province that we could be helping in many other ways—I’m probably going to spend more time addressing the shortcomings of the bill than I am the positives of the bill.

But first I want to address the comments from the government House leader this morning, the point of him being critical, actually, of our member from London–Fanshawe for wanting to actually debate in this House. I think that’s really what we were elected to do and that our constituents want to hear from us. That is really the only opportunity they get to see us debating issues that are important to them. So if we want to stand up here and speak for 25 hours, and the standing orders allow it, then we have the right to do that.

I also wanted to comment on the questions being asked in the House this week on points of order by the official opposition because they are not getting the questions answered that they’re putting on the order paper.

Hon. Liz Sandals: Actually, they have all been answered. Look at your order paper; they’ve all been answered.

Ms. Cindy Forster: Well, maybe today they are, but they weren’t last week.

So I think those are the important issues. It doesn’t seem the government wants to speak to this issue, but certainly they didn’t hesitate to put together seven or eight bills along with Bill 74. We spent a lot of time talking about Bill 74 in the last two or three weeks, and that’s a bill that really is important to only one big business: EllisDon. So why is EllisDon more important than the hundreds of thousands of little businesses in this province that are counting on us to do the right thing for them, to help them be able to grow the economy and their business, to help them be able to hire some new employees, to help them to perhaps buy some new equipment and innovate themselves?

Bill 74 is going to be before us here today for a vote, but, you know, it’s interesting how that all happened. The government actually used EllisDon’s StrategyCorp to lobby the PCs to bring forward a private member’s bill for this one big multi-billion dollar company in the province. They have billions of profits each year, and so they lobbied the Tories to put that bill forward.

Then we heard from the Premier on a number of occasions that this was just a little anomaly—this labour relations agreement between the trades and EllisDon was just an anomaly in the province—and that the government had to do the right thing and they needed to get rid of this for this one big business, when they really should have been spending time on making things better for all the small businesses in this province.

So then there was a court decision, and the court decision ended up kind of reversing the need to actually move forward with Bill 74, and so the Premier said at that time—

Interjections.

Ms. Cindy Forster: I’m actually talking about the differences between supporting big business and the lack of doing things for small businesses, so I think I am speaking to the bill.

What happened was then we had the Premier saying that she no longer needed to support it because the issue had actually been addressed and there was no immediate need to do that.

Then there was a vote to actually get that into committee. We went to committee, the bill got debated in committee, and there were days of hearings. We heard from all kinds of people on the bill. We heard from the union side; we heard from businesses’ side. But we were still hearing from the Premier and all kinds of newspaper reports that she actually wasn’t going to be supporting Bill 74. Anyway, when it got down to the clause-by-clause and it got down to the voting, we all assumed that the Liberals weren’t going to support it and that it was going to die.

Lo and behold, they sat on their hands and they abstained, actually, from even going anywhere near that bill, although it was their idea in the beginning to actually get that bill on the floor of this House.

So, today after question period, we’re going to be actually talking—

Interjections.

Ms. Cindy Forster: That you guys started. So at the end of the day, we’re going to be having that vote. It will be interesting to see how many people are actually here and how they’re going to vote on Bill 74.

I’ll now go back to Bill 105 and some of the shortcomings. For me, some of the shortcomings of the bill are that there are other taxes in place, like the input tax credit, that will see big business actually have tax writeoffs for entertaining their clients, for buying wine at dinner, for taking them to a Raptors game or to a hockey game. You know, the average Joe, the average small business, probably doesn’t have the funds to be able to even entertain their clients. There are many small home businesses in this province that operate with one or two employees.

There are some that operate with 10 or 20, and there are some that operate with 100 employees, but these input tax credits are going to apply to those biggest corporations, those corporations that earn billions of dollars of year-end profits.

The Royal Bank actually went out and laid off all of their backroom employees and hired temporary or permanent foreign workers. Speaker, I took the opportunity to pick up the phone and speak to the VP in my area when that happened. Here we are putting Ontario workers out of work and we’re hiring temporary or permanent foreign workers to do the jobs that should belong to the people in this province. It’s Ontarians and Canadians who support our banks throughout this country.

We’re the ones who pay them $300 and $500 a year to keep a bank account open, we’re the ones who invest our money in the banks, and yet all of our jobs in the backrooms of these banks are going to foreign workers, and it’s not right.

Why should banks and insurance companies and multi-billion dollar corporations be getting more tax credits to support them when in fact we’re doing very little in this bill to actually support small businesses? I talked to some small business people in my area, and although they look forward to having that extra room, that extra $60,000 or $50,000, to them it means very little. It might give them $25,000 or $30,000 a year, so maybe they’ll be able to hire one employee or maybe they’ll be able to provide two part-time jobs because of that little bit of savings, depending on how big their company is. So while this bill does address some issues, it’s very small.

Now, we’re going to be supporting it because we support small business. They’re a big driver in our economy here in the province, considering the loss of manufacturing jobs: 600,000 jobs have been lost in the province over the last 10 years. I can tell you that my community of Welland is still reeling from that. I would say that over the last 20 years we’ve probably lost 10,000 jobs in the south Niagara region.

It takes a lot more than a bill with a nice title like this and a relatively small tax exemption to actually create more jobs in this province. That’s why during the 2011 election, in our platform, we brought forward a pretty comprehensive plan about how to assist small and medium-sized businesses with tax incentives and tax grants that would assist them. It would create real full-time jobs. It would do that by ensuring that companies had tax exemptions to invest in machinery, to invest in innovation and to train workers in this province.

I look forward to the comments from the other sides of the House and I look forward to further debate in committee.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Questions and comments?

Mr. Steven Del Duca: I’ve had the chance, over the course of a number of days, to hear speakers from both opposition parties stand up in this House and talk about how much they support not only the bill, but they want to support small business. Yet we find ourselves in a bizarre world where, notwithstanding the fact that they seem to suggest they want the bill to move forward and they want to support it and, most importantly, they want to support small businesses right across Ontario, we continue to have hours and hours and hours of debate on this bill.

As we’ve said on this side of the House, what’s most important at this point is to get this bill to committee so we can have additional analysis, additional discussion, bring it back for third reading and get it passed so we in fact on this side of the House can do what the two opposition parties claim they want to do, which is to support small business. The most important thing here is that we get action, move this forward, stop what I think is a filibuster in this case anyway, because of the extensive goings-on on the other side of the House.

It’s important that we support this bill, get it to committee and get it back here for third reading so that small businesses right across the province of Ontario can realize the benefits of what will take place because of what’s in this bill.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): The member for Durham.

Mr. John O’Toole: I did listen to the genuine concerns of the member from Welland. I know that she is very representative of her riding, a very committed constituency person and heavily tied to their leader, Andrea Horwath. I would say that those are good things.

I’m somewhat disappointed in the response from the Liberal Party, the member from Vaughan particularly, more or less trivializing any of the comments made by anyone. Their plan, really, is to get it out of here, get it into committee and stifle debate and the very democratic process here in this House.

Interjections.

Mr. John O’Toole: Now they’re laughing, see? This is the thing. We have members that haven’t spoken and want the privilege of speaking on behalf of their constituents. I can’t wait for the member from Chatham–Kent–Essex, who I’m sure will deliver a very thoughtful message from his riding, probably even talking about small business, not the diplomatic arguments happening in this House.

I think it’s small and trivial the way you’re commenting on the member from Welland’s remarks. If you wouldn’t do her the courtesy of listening to her, I think you are doing a disservice to your party yourself. When you’re here in this House, listen as much as you are speaking. I think the member from Welland made some very good points, trying to represent the importance—at the end of this day, small business in Ontario creates all of the jobs. I worked for a large company. In Ontario today, here’s how you create small business—the member from Vaughan should listen to this.

In Ontario, how do you create a small business? You start with a large one and you tax it and tax it and tax it until it either moves or, as has been said, they have no option but to stay here in Ontario and try to survive under the Wynne government. Their policy on energy is just one example of penalizing business in Ontario today.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Further comments? The member for Bramalea–Gore–Malton.

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I want to say that my fellow NDP member from Welland gave a very thoughtful speech. In particular, I was very impressed with two points. One is that she drew attention to the fact that the Liberal government had to be shamed into answering questions that should have been answered months and months ago. So what has been perhaps suggested to be a filibuster in fact was democracy at work: the fact that the Conservative caucus had to raise this issue in the House to ensure the Liberal government did their duty, which was answering questions that were months and months overdue.

What I particularly also think was very important, and the member from Welland expressed it very well, was the fact that the members in this House have not only an opportunity but an obligation and a duty to represent the concerns of their constituents by voicing their constituents’ issues and their frustrations in this House. That’s exactly what we’re here to do. So any suggestion or accusation that using that time is in any way deterring from what goes on in this House is simply unjust and wrong.

The member from Welland is discharging her duties by speaking, as are all the other members in this House. It’s the only way that the people of our communities can have their voices and their concerns expressed here in the House. So I applaud all the members for taking the time to express their concerns and their issues. You’re doing the duty of this House and you are doing democracy justice. Thank you very much.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Further comments? The Minister of Community and Social Services.

Hon. Ted McMeekin: Thanks very much, Madam Speaker. I want to say that I always enjoy what the member from Welland has to say. I think she is a thoughtful contributor to the debate in this place and I admire her tenacity and her passion. I just want to say thanks for the thoughtful contribution that she did make.

On the issue of small business itself, I used to operate a small—in fact, it was a small business that became a big business, or a bigger business. We were going in the right direction. At the time, the province was being run by the party opposite. I owned and operated the original Chapters bookstore, and we had some interesting times. I really enjoyed the bookstore business.

We had some interesting encounters with government. I remember the year that my business was randomly selected for both a GST and a PST audit. That was fun. You could convince me that government at that time did nothing but get in the way of small business. I paid my accountant about eight grand to come in and work through my books, and when it was all done, the provincial government owed me about $800.

I remember being in touch with the minister from the party opposite about that and about where I get my rebate from, and the response I got was that it’s just the cost of doing business. I was a little embarrassed by that, but it taught me some important lessons about standing in solidarity, not just with my brothers and sisters in the labour movement, but also with all our good friends in the small—

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Thank you. The member has two minutes to respond.

Ms. Cindy Forster: I’d like to thank the members from Vaughan, Durham and Bramalea–Gore–Malton, and the Minister of Community and Social Services, who was actually listening to me, which is great. It’s rare that that happens in this place.

With respect to the comments about filibustering, I have to tell you that I am following members of this House who are hard acts to follow: the honourable Peter Kormos, for 23 years, who could filibuster everybody in this place, as long and with great interest and intensity—

Ms. Sylvia Jones: Including his own party.

Ms. Cindy Forster: Including his own party. Prior to that, Mel Swart was the member. Mel was the man of props; in fact, the anti-prop legislation came into place, as the Minister of the Environment will tell you, because Mel had a lot of props. Both were beloved men in my community. So if you think I’m filibustering, I’m going to have to get a lot better at it.

There are standing orders in this House. There are standing orders that allow you to debate; there are standing orders that allow you to avoid debate or to delay debate. People can ring bells, they can ask for recesses or they can debate the bill. I think it’s a better use of all of our time and certainly constituents’ tax dollars for us to be debating the issue, whether we’re directly debating Bill 105 or whether we’re highlighting for constituents in our community other things that we may not necessarily agree with. So that’s what I chose to do with my 10 minutes today, but I was still talking about business in this province and the need for jobs in Ontario.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Further debate.

Mr. Rick Nicholls: It’s my pleasure to rise today to speak to Bill 105, also known as the Supporting Small Businesses Act. I really feel that there is something we can all agree on here, and that’s that every party in the House will say that they support small business. But what will Bill 105 actually do for the struggling small business owners? The bill proposes to increase the exemption amount from $400,000 to $450,000 for the 2014 to 2018 calendar years, with the amount to be adjusted for inflation starting in 2019.

But please excuse the small business owners from my riding of Chatham–Kent–Essex, as they’re not about to pop any champagne. They are too busy trying to keep the lights on or keeping up with the mountains of paperwork of new regulations, or struggling to remember all the new fees they have to pay, thanks to this Liberal government.

In Chatham–Kent–Essex, we have lost over 10,000 manufacturing jobs since 2003—coincidentally the same year that this government came into power. Job losses were massive, and it’s a massive problem for the people in my community. This single change, while welcome, doesn’t go far enough to help the small businesses.

What will this bill do to help Mike Lenover of Lenovers Meats pay for his skyrocketing hydro bills? Mike’s father, Keith, started Lenovers Meats in Chatham back in 1938. The local business has weathered many storms. They’ve stayed profitable through a world war and recessions but are having a tough time doing business under the Liberal government. Mike’s energy bill is almost equal to his payroll. He’s now bracing for yet another increase to his hydro rates on November 1.

These increases can be traced back to the Liberals’ billion-dollar gas plant scandals, as the Auditor General confirmed that these costs will be added to the ratepayers’ already massive hydro bills. From 2011 to 2013, this man in my riding, his business, Lenovers Meats, has been paying more than—he has seen his rates increase by 45% more per kilowatt hour, and the global adjustment rate alone has increased by 117%. Let’s not try to cripple small business. Mike’s rising electricity bills do not support his small business.

Another question is, what will Bill 105 do for small business owners who are forced to pay for inadequate WSIB coverage in addition to the private insurance they already have? I went to talk to a particular business owner, Varco Industrial Sales, in Chatham. The owner and the manager of the Chatham store, Jon Varey, was explaining to me that he has his own insurance, but that’s not enough. He now has to pay additional WSIB for himself as well as for his employees. It’s killing small business. This particular company, by the way, offers a wide variety of industrial products, including everything from machinery to janitorial supplies.

Another question: What will Bill 105 do to reduce the burden brought on by the College of Trades tax? The College of Trades will drive up the cost of a host of services, including anything from getting a haircut to having a car serviced, or even a home renovation. The Ontario College of Trades is imposing a variety of new annual memberships, yet offer no benefit or say in how the college is run. For some tradespeople, these fees represent a 500% increase.

Speaker, as I was coming into my seat, I looked up behind me and there were a number of tradespeople here, unionized tradespeople. I’m sure that they have a number of tickets and I’m sure that they’re also paying a whole lot more for their tickets today than they were last year.

Here are just a few examples of some of the annual increases: apprentices, tradespersons and journeyperson candidates are now paying $60 a year; journeypersons are now paying $120 a year; employers and sponsors, another $120—and, of course, keep in mind that on top of all of these increases in fees, there is HST being applied to it. So what the HST was being paid for before, now it’s a tax on a tax, and to me, that doesn’t make any sense. Also, some of the trades workers previously paid $60 for three years. Now they pay $120 every year. That’s a 500% increase in their fees. That’s not fair for these people behind me or anyone else involved in the trades.

You talk about hairdressers. Now they’re paying $120 a year to the College of Trades. I remember I was talking with a barber in my riding. He came up to me and he said, “Rick, you’re not going to believe what happened. I’m in my barber shop, I have some customers in my barber shop, and these people from the College of Trades came in.” I call them the trades cops. They came in and actually embarrassed him while he was in the middle of giving a haircut. I wouldn’t have wanted to have been the next person in the chair, that’s for sure.

Another question is, what will Bill 105 do to support small businesses looking to hire on more apprentices? Our government should be doing everything it can to make it easier for qualified young Ontarians to enter the skilled trades. Many businesses provide an opportunity for new tradespeople to learn their craft. My colleague the member from Simcoe North tabled a bill which sought to modernize Ontario’s antiquated apprenticeship system and create over 200,000 new jobs in this province by reducing the ratio of journeymen to apprentices to 1 to 1. The Liberals and the NDP voted against that bill.

Yes, the propped-up coalition is still alive and well. They say one thing, but they do the opposite. Trust me, Speaker, this is not in the best interests of people looking for work and not in the best interests of small business.

Before the bill was up for a second reading, I talked to some other local businesses about the issue. One constituent I spoke to was Brian Wright of Wright’s Electric in Chatham. Wright’s Electric has been in my city for a good long time—64 years, as a matter of fact. They employ 13 people at the moment. They know the community and they know the industry.

When I asked him for his opinion on getting the apprenticeship ratios down to 1 to 1, he told me, “Rick, that’s a very impressive idea.” He told me that there are people in our community who could get jobs if this regulation was changed. Further, he said that if the legislation remained the same, these same people would not get a chance at a job. Brian finished our chat by saying, “The people in the industry want this. It’s what’s good for job creation, it’s good for students and it’s good for the public.” Sadly, the Liberal government was not listening to the needs of small businesses and students desperately looking to find work.

Now, these are just a few examples of the hurting small businesses in my riding of Chatham–Kent–Essex. I’m sure that every member in this House can tell you similar stories from worried business owners in their own ridings. Yet we see a Liberal government that is so incredibly out of touch with the reality that the people of Ontario live in that they can actually parade this bill as if it were going to really save small businesses. Given all of the issues in the Chatham–Kent–Essex area that our people are facing, not to mention businesses across the province, how can we treat this bill as a real solution?

One light piece of legislation does not fix this government’s disastrous approach to job creation.

I have met with countless small business owners all over my riding. I’ve heard the same thing over and over again in Chatham, Wheatley, Blenheim, Highgate, Ridgetown, Erieau, Tilbury and Leamington: They can no longer afford to do business under this Liberal government. They also cannot afford to wait. Many business owners in my riding operate month to month just trying to pay the bills, let alone make a profit or hire folks in the community. They need a sense of hope now.

These small business owners cannot wait around yet another year to hear from another panel or have another study group which will tell Premier Wynne what her ideas for job creation are. They need action today. For the sake of the small business owners of Chatham–Kent–Essex and all of the constituents who depend on these people for employment or to enrich our community, I truly hope this government has an actual plan to create jobs in Ontario. My constituents cannot wait any longer.

If this Liberal government doesn’t have a plan to truly help small businesses across the province, get out of the way, because the PCs will step up to the plate and help these struggling owners and their employees. We’ll free small businesses from the tax and the red tape burden that this government has placed upon them so that they can stay in business, prosper and create good, honest jobs that the people of Chatham–Kent–Essex are ready to fill. Everyone in this House, if they really get behind their small business owners in their own ridings, will realize, will see, will understand that these people are the driving force for our economy today. They provide true solid jobs.

Why do we punish the small businesses? It’s not right. It’s not the right thing to play on them and create unnecessary burdens. I say we need to get this bill passed, get it into committee where then we can amend it to death.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Questions and comments?

Ms. Cindy Forster: I want to thank the member from Carleton–Mississippi Mills—it’s one of those

long titles—

Ms. Laurie Scott: No, no.

Ms. Cindy Forster: No? From—

Mr. Rick Nicholls: Chatham–Kent–Essex.

Ms. Cindy Forster: Oh, Chatham–Kent–Essex. I’m sorry. I’m not the Speaker so I don’t have to learn all of those places.

I want to thank him for his comments. I want to zone in, though, on just a couple of the issues he brought in. On the trades ratio: Personally, I don’t think that it’s the business of the government to actually interfere in issues of staff to staff, in any sector. I can tell you that from my experience in nursing at the hospital; we were constantly, over the years, fighting about ratios. We knew that the more registered staff there are, the lower the mortality rate with patients.

I think that with the College of Trades, probably the higher the number of tradesmen, the lower the health and safety issues that occur and a better quality of work is produced. I think that’s something that trades and employers need to deal with themselves. They need to negotiate those kinds of issues in their own terms. It isn’t something that the government can legislate. So I think we need to stay away from that.

We need to stay away from always being on the attack of unions and workers in this province in areas like the Rand formula that has been around for as long as I’ve been around, and really stick with trying to help employers—

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Thank you. Further comments?

Hon. Ted McMeekin: I’ve got to tell you, it takes some gall sometimes to make some of the statements that you hear opposite. By the way, I could listen to the member from Welland all day. I think, again, you’re speaking very sensibly. Thank you.

This business about the college being a tax: It’s not a tax; the government is not getting any money out of that at all, as anybody who follows the issue knows. I’ve got to tell you, I’d much rather have our friends, our tradespeople in the labour movement, handling labour issues and apprenticeship ratios and all of that than I would government handling it, just as I’d rather have teachers and doctors and dentists sorting out the difficulties with education, medicine and good oral health care.

I’m proud of my beloved city of Hamilton and Mohawk College, which graduates more apprentices than any other institution in the province. I’m not anxious at all to join the race to the bottom that the party opposite would have with its anti-labour, freedom-to-work, Minnesota-type legislation. That’s not my idea of a fun or progressive, helpful, vibrant and caring Ontario.

The member opposite says he’s going to amend this bill to death. I don’t doubt that for a minute. There will be as much time wasted as possible from a party that didn’t even read the budget before they decided publicly that they’d vote against it. It’s bizarre.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Further comments? The member for Nipissing.

Mr. Victor Fedeli: Thank you very much, Speaker, for this opportunity to speak. I must say it was also interesting to hear of a party that was going to vote in favour of a budget before ever reading it, so it does cut both ways.

This bill also is merely tinkering at the edges. It doesn’t approach the serious topic of the trouble that our small business and medium- and large-size businesses are in. I’m still chuckling over the member from Durham’s statement about: How do you have a small business in Ontario? You start with a large business. That’s so true under this government for the last 10 years.

This tinkers at the edges. It doesn’t hit the core problems. The core problems are some of the new taxes that the Liberal government has put on small business: the WSIB tax and the College of Trades tax. In the remaining one minute that I have, let me just tell you about the College of Trades. I have spoken about the barber from a small town in my riding before. He sent a letter in, and he asked me—I can’t use his name and I can’t use the town he’s in because he’s the only barber in that town and he’s worried that the College of Trades will know it was him.

What had happened was, here he was, cutting the hair of one of his clients in the chair, and two members from the College of Trades, with their shiny car parked outside and the uniforms they wear, came in to insist on seeing his certification that he had paid his $100 and change. They interrupted his business for almost 10 minutes, he said, and frightened the customer that was in his chair.

Interjection.

Mr. Victor Fedeli: He was; he felt threatened by the whole series of actions.

This is the problem in Ontario. This Bill 105 is not going to do anything to solve the real problems of the WSIB tax and the College of Trades tax. In fact, it’s taxing medium businesses to pay for this—

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Thank you. Further comments?

Ms. Catherine Fife: I was listening intently to the member from Chatham–Kent–Essex as he went through some of the issues that are contained within this bill. I think it’s incumbent upon all of us to actually, when it does get to committee, try to strengthen it. That’s certainly our intention.

He talked at length about creating good jobs, and yet two budget cycles have come and gone, and his party, his caucus, have missed significant opportunities to do something about creating good jobs. They have some white papers. I think they have the white paper called the right to work. It embraces some sort of theory about right to work. The way that we see it, it’s a right to work for less money, less benefits, in less safe conditions. So just because you call the paper bold does not make it so.

We of course have adopted a completely different philosophy. In both budget sessions we did something very unique. We read the budget first before we said whether or not we would support it; we read it at length. Both budgets needed significant work, which we brought to the table in I think a very constructive way. We were able to bring some innovative and creative ideas, especially around youth employment, which is an issue that affects every single riding. Every single member in this House has a serious youth unemployment issue, because Ontario has one of the highest rates of youth unemployment in the country.

For 10 years we have seen not a lot of action, but we were able to make the Liberals do what they said they were going to do a long time ago. We’re happy to do that; we’re happy to work with them, because the people of this province sent a minority government to this House. They expect us to get the job done.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): The member for Chatham–Kent–Essex has two minutes to respond.

Mr. Rick Nicholls: Again, I would like to thank the member from Welland, the Minister for Community and Social Services, my colleague and friend from Nipissing, as well as the member from Kitchener–Waterloo for their comments, some rather enlightening, some rather incorrect and disturbing.

The discussion about PC white papers—they’re ideas. At least we have ideas; at least we put them out there. If they want to chew them up and spit them out, that’s OK. They can make accusations all they want. At least we have a plan. I have yet to see a plan from the third party opposition. They just want to comment. It’s easy to ride on the coattails of the government right now; we can see that the coalition is definitely alive and well, and they support it.

A comment was made earlier that it’s unfortunate—we seem to come forth with bills, true bills that will in fact help get Ontario back on the right track, yet unfortunately these good, solid bills do get defeated by both the Liberals and the NDP, which tells me one thing: They speak out of one side of their mouth here and the other side of their mouth there. I don’t think it’s really fair that they can make these comments.

They also try to pit us against the unions, and that’s a very unfair comment, very unfair. I’ve worked in a unionized environment in the past. I have some very good friends who are unionized employees. What we’re talking about here is job creation, be it union or non-union. We’re talking about job creation. We’re talking about maybe their sons and daughters who don’t have a job right now and want to enter the trades, but they can’t enter the trades because the ratios are too high. We want to be able to help these young people get jobs in this province, and lowering those apprenticeship ratios we know will in effect create over 200,000 jobs, and we’re for them as well.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Further debate?

Ms. Laurie Scott: It’s a pleasure to rise today to speak about small businesses in Ontario. We just had Small Business Week last week. This is Bill 105 this morning. The Liberal government says it’s supporting small businesses. Well, it amends the Employer Health Tax Act by increasing the exemption amount from $400,000 to $450,000, effective in 2014. Really, we’re going to support that, but it’s a minor change that may get a business, I don’t know, maybe $900 or so that might help them.

The Liberal government, I have to say, for 10 years has been very good at titling bills that pretend to actually be doing things. Bill 105 is the Supporting Small Businesses Act, 2013. Well, it may give them maybe $900 on this hand, but the government has taken away far more on the other hand. Bill 105 kind of exemplifies what this government has been doing. It’s kind of one of those shell games, right?

Let’s talk about the number one thing I hear about in my constituency of Haliburton–Kawartha Lakes–Brock, and that is the cost of hydro and how it’s so much harder to do business in the province of Ontario. The hydro rates, we all know, have more than doubled under this government. They’re going to continue to double. There are credit cards out there now called the Ontario Taxpayers’ Trust citing cancelled power plants, $1 billion; Green Energy Act, $7 billion; annual debt service costs, $10 billion; new debt since 2003, $120 billion. What does it say at the bottom of it? “Stopping this Liberal government: priceless.”

The people of Ontario are bleeding out dollars. Their electricity rates have gone up—there’s a global adjustment fee now on their bills—trying to pay for the failed policies of this government, specifically the Green Energy Act and that $1.1-billion power plant scandal that’s been going on. So you bet that small businesses are paying extra, thousands and thousands of dollars out the door, just on their hydro bills alone.

Now, small businesses are the greatest job creators we have in the province of Ontario. At least 85% of the jobs in Ontario are created through small businesses; it certainly happens in my riding. They’re pretty darned nervous—I’ve told that story many times—and they said, “Why would you set up a business in the province of Ontario?” It has become more difficult, and they are crying out for help, and as someone has said, too, they’re losing their entrepreneurial spirit. So when bills like 105 come in—okay, happy day—it gives them a little bit, but really, the shell game continues. They’re losing more and more money out. It’s a cash grab.

We even have the Auditor General confirming the fact that the problem with the Green Energy Act is we pay the richest subsidy, and they pay all these wind producers whenever their power is made. The Auditor General tells us that one of the flaws in the whole Green Energy Act is there is no business plan done.

Again, we see pieces of legislation come out—no real business plan. We have made motions—I just forget the name, but anyway, we’ve cleared the deck of the bills that the government thought were a priority, so we could see what their fiscal plan is.

Ms. Sylvia Jones: Programming motion.

Ms. Laurie Scott: Yes, a programming motion—thank you—to see what their fiscal plan is. So we’ve played that. We’re waiting patiently to hear what the fiscal plan is, because the province is in a crisis. We lost 300,000 good manufacturing jobs. We have 600,000 people out of a job. I’m pleading: In my area, I need jobs. People need to be able to pay their bills, to feed their families. It is just absurd, the fact that in reality, not only are the businesses struggling, but people are leaving their homes because they can’t pay their bills, and they are quietly doing so, because they are proud people.

My colleague from Simcoe North has been a great advocate of apprenticeship ratios. I know we’ve spoken about that several times this morning. I have small businesses. The Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities was in my riding the other day, saying how great the College of Trades is going to be, and I had a small business person come up at the Lindsay Rotary luncheon and say, “I can’t get enough people who want to be electricians, because I can’t get through that ratio.” He’s a small business guy who’s trying to survive, trying to provide skilled trade jobs.

The minister responsible for colleges and training is going to save us all? Well, it is not going to save us all. It is not going to help our kids enter into the skilled trades, where there actually are jobs and we’re facing a deficit of finding people to fill those jobs. The College of Trades is not going to be your saviour. The member from Simcoe North has brought motions upon motions and bills up, to try and change that.

I just want to say that, you know, they say the tradespeople want it. Some 88% of tradespeople employees say they are against it.

Actually, the College of Trades is going to cost $84 million, and where are they going to get that money from? Oh, yes, those businesses—

Interjection: Small business.

Ms. Laurie Scott: You bet. Small businesses are paying for this.

We’ve just heard, you know, the police who are out there, the tax police, fighting with the barbers with customers in their chairs, looking for their money. “Where is your licence? Is it posted on the wall?”

This is not helping small businesses. This is another tax upon them. Quebec is the model, apparently, that it has been modelled after, and that’s disastrous. I mean, you’ll need 11 people to renovate your bathroom, and it will take you probably 10 months. The handyman is gone.

The home builders all across my riding have been decreeing how awful this is. I applaud the member from Simcoe North for all his work in that area, because I want young people in my area to have jobs.

There’s another big thing that they could be helping about. I’d mentioned and touched upon the wind turbines being forced, of course, on unwilling communities. Just last week, I brought up in the Legislature the Cham Shan Temple, that had 20 years ago purchased this piece of property, a $40-million investment that they want for four simple temple sites. They’re an industry that could come here for tourism in this community, and that is being threatened by industrial wind turbines being built close to all of the four proposed temple sites—a tragedy, certainly not something that’s helping job creation in the area.

I’m looking forward to the government having a look at that a little closer and, hopefully, working with not just this community, but all the communities that are not willing hosts for industrial wind turbines.

Horse racing: Again, Kawartha Downs was a great horse racing track. It moved from 100 races a year to 20. That’s not enough for industry to survive. Jobs have already been lost. I mean, that’s not job creation.

We have little Bill 105 that gives businesses maybe $900 a year. It is a shell game because the government continues to shut down our small businesses, making it harder to work in the province of Ontario.

On another topic, I want to speak on the WSIB bill, Bill 119. We have fought that and fought that, and that is just another burden on employers. It’s not necessary. We’ve said we would repeal Bill 119. We hear that continuously out there, even from Mennonite and Amish people. Just the whole principle of Bill 119 and the WSIB is against their culture, it’s against their beliefs. The government has turned a blind eye to them, and that’s just not right. They are a peace-loving people who add to our communities. We could have done better for them.

I want to touch a little bit upon eco fees also for my agriculture community especially, the Ontario Tire Stewardship program. We saw on the news yesterday that Drive Clean scenario where the tests aren’t quite accurate, but the customer, the taxpayer, has to pay again, even though the machines for the new Drive Clean tests aren’t working. It’s time to scrap that program of Drive Clean. Again, we’re just burdening taxpayers with something that doesn’t need to exist any longer. Its day is done. It was never to go past about 10 years.

The member from Kitchener–Conestoga, Michael Harris, has done a great job at trying to bring that to the forefront. Let me tell you, that’s a hot topic back in Haliburton–Kawartha Lakes–Brock: the uselessness of the Drive Clean program at this point with the new vehicles that have come on. This is not helping the environment. It’s all about a tax grab for the Liberal government to pay for their inept policies that have burdened us for 10 years.

The tire tax: We have lots of petitions about that—the fees increasing from $15.29 to $352. The member from Prince Edward–Hastings told a great story the other day when he spoke about this bill, about how there’s a $2,000 difference, I think, going across the border to buy tires. We can’t be competitive. The province needs to be competitive with other jurisdictions, and it just isn’t.

My time is coming to an end on Bill 105. We here have put out great ideas to help small businesses; we want them to succeed. They are the job creators. Bill 105: great title, minimal amount of help. The bigger picture needs to be addressed in the province of Ontario.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Comments and questions?

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: It’s a pleasure to rise. I want to build on the last point from the member’s speech, that it’s the name of the bill. I think that’s what is causing a lot of people concern.

If the bill was “getting rid of the employer health tax credit” or getting rid of that exemption, then people would say, “Okay, this bill is doing exactly what it says.” The problem with the bill is, when you give it a name like “Supporting Small Businesses” and you look at the bill, and there’s nothing of substance, really, beyond a minimal exemption which is increased—and that’s certainly going to help in a small way, but the problem with the bill is it’s “Supporting Small Businesses.” We expect a lot more in terms of actually creating a climate that supports small businesses.

While I may disagree on some of the strategies the member is suggesting, the member is actually raising some good points here, like the fact that if we want to create an environment where our small businesses are promoted, are supported, and we can encourage their growth, then we need to do more than just provide this additional $50,000 exemption. That’s not something that in a significant, meaningful, dramatic or innovative way supports our small businesses. It simply doesn’t do that.

We need to see more concerted efforts, a broader approach to create a significant and powerful impact and really support our small businesses in a meaningful way so that we can actually create a climate here in Ontario that allows our small businesses to flourish.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Further comments? The Minister of Labour.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: Thank you very much, Speaker, for recognizing me to speak on this very important issue.

I heard the speech from the member opposite quite diligently, and I’d like to emphasize once in a while in this House that we should rely on facts when we are talking about issues of great public interest. So here are some facts, because the member opposite spent a lot of time talking about taxes in this province. The fact is that this government has done a lot when it comes to reducing taxes and making our businesses more competitive.

Here are some specific examples, which cannot be denied by the members opposite. We harmonized the sales tax, by amalgamating the GST and PST; that resulted in creating a lot of efficiencies in our sales tax system, especially for small businesses. We also eliminated the capital tax in the province of Ontario, which corporations paid whether or not they had a profit. This government did that. We also significantly reduced corporate taxes, both for large businesses and small businesses in the province of Ontario. How much for small businesses, since that’s what we are talking about here?

We took the corporate tax rate for small businesses from 5.5% to 4.5% and, also, we totally eliminated the small business deduction surtax, from 4.25% to 0%.

Now here is another fact: The party opposite, the opposition party, voted against every single one of these measures. So they stand up here and they talk about how they are the champions for businesses, but every single measure that was brought in to boost businesses, to promote businesses by making it a competitive climate, they voted against them. I would be totally fine with everything they’re accusing us of, if they just admitted to the facts before this House.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Further comments?

Mr. Rick Nicholls: To the Minister of Labour, here is another fact for you: When you came into power in 2003, the debt was $125 billion. The debt today, just a short 10 years later, has now risen to about $275 billion. That too, sir, is a fact.

We talk about this bill being called the Supporting Small Businesses Act. It probably should be renamed the Killing Small Businesses Act, of course, because of the fact of what it’s doing with the College of Trades and all the red tape that’s involved. Killing small businesses as well are the rising hydro bills. These are some of the things that I have spoken about when I had my 10 minutes to address this particular bill.

The other thing is, and my colleague had mentioned it earlier, the Green Energy Act. Well, the truth be known about the Green Energy Act, this is

an act that does—if we can get rid of it, that would be great, but if not, let’s rename it. We’ll call it the Black Energy Act, instead of the Green Energy Act, because this Liberal government is putting Ontario into a deep black hole. That’s what that Green Energy Act is doing right now. It’s killing businesses down in my riding right now. It’s nothing but turbines. I’ve got turbines popping up in the great riding of Chatham–Kent–Essex faster than you can say, “NDP-Liberal coalition.” That’s how fast they are popping up down there, and they are destroying everything down there.

We look at positive ways of how to, in fact, support small businesses, because I’ve mentioned it before and I’ll say it again: Small businesses drive the economy in Ontario, and they need all the breaks they can get in order to survive, for job creation and so that they can keep this economy rolling.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Further comments?

Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong: I’m glad to make my comments on this. I did want to point out the comment I just heard—I don’t like to say those words because it doesn’t ring true to why I’m here. I’m not here to have a coalition with any government. I am here to speak on behalf of the residents of London–Fanshawe and bring a voice to this Legislature.

In October 2011, all residents of Ontario spoke to this Legislature and voted in a minority government. That means they want the parties to work together. I think we heard that very loud and clear, because we made suggestions to budgets that actually got results for people, that actually made life better for people.

So when I hear the comment about the coalition, absolutely I don’t agree with that. When you talk about coalitions and trying to make things better for people, look at Bill 74, the EllisDon bill. Who are they trying to make life better for? EllisDon. EllisDon has reported revenues of $3 billion a year, but we have families struggling in Ontario to pay their hydro bills and put food on the table.

Supporting small business is what’s important here today. Because we all agree on this bill does not mean we have a coalition; it means we actually see that this bill, though it’s a very small change for small business, is going to benefit small business and get results for people. So I’m happy to stand here today, Speaker, and debate and put my comments forward, but I do not like the word “coalition.” It is getting results for our constituents who sent us here in a minority government. Roll up your sleeves, and let’s work together to make sure people’s lives reflect the bills that we pass in this Legislature.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): The member has two minutes to respond.

Ms. Laurie Scott: I’ll wrap up before question period, so I’ll probably be a little quieter than what question period is about to be.

I appreciate the comments from the member from Bramalea–Gore–Malton, the Minister of Labour, the member from Chatham–Kent–Essex and the member from London–Fanshawe. She might not like the word “coalition,” but they certainly unified together to help wipe out the horse racing industry in the province of Ontario. So you might not want to call it a coalition.

Interjection.

Ms. Laurie Scott: That transition funding is not saving the horse tracks. I just told you the story about Kawartha Downs. It went from 200 races to 20. It doesn’t produce an industry.

You propped up this Liberal government and took the legs out from under the horse racing industry and can take full responsibility for that. You might not want to call it a coalition, but that’s exactly what happened.

The industrial wind turbines being forced on communities: Again, the NDP don’t really say that isn’t true. They have done that, and they still are forcing them on communities. I just told you about the job losses that are going to occur when they do that in my community to the Cham Shan Temple, the loss of those potential jobs there.

The Minister of Labour—I mean, really—saying what the Liberal government has done: Let me see. Unemployment has risen dramatically under this Liberal government. You can’t deny those figures; they are out there. I’m not making them up. The debt and deficit have doubled, and guess what? Servicing that is the third-largest budget item in this province. You do not have the ability to pay for health care and education and social services when you’re busy paying down this huge debt and deficit that this Liberal government has created. When they said they streamlined HST and GST, sure they did: They put it on home heating and electricity and put people and businesses out of business.

Mr. Todd Smith: Shame.

Ms. Laurie Scott: It is shameful.

Anyway, Bill 105 is a minor step and really doesn’t solve the problem.

Second reading debate deemed adjourned.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): It being close to 10:15, this House stands recessed until 10:30.

The House recessed from 1013 to 1030.

WEARING OF PINS

Hon. Tracy MacCharles: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker: I believe we have unanimous consent that all members be permitted to wear daffodil pins in recognition of the Canadian Cancer Society’s MPP education day here at Queen’s Park.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Ms. MacCharles is seeking unanimous consent to wear the daffodil pin. Before I seek agreement: a reminder that poppies are to be worn on the left side of your breast and that it be the highest—if you choose to wear the daffodils, they are to be underneath.

Ms. MacCharles has asked for unanimous consent. Do we agree? Agreed.

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

Mrs. Jane McKenna: I’d like to welcome, from the Canadian Association of Oilwell Drilling Contractors, in the west

section here, Mark Scholz, who is the president, and Don Pack, the VP of operations of Precision Drilling. Welcome today.

Hon. Tracy MacCharles: I’m not sure he’s here, but I think Henry Vertolli from my riding of Pickering–Scarborough East and other members from the sheet metal workers’ international union, Local 30, are here today. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Mr. Monte McNaughton: I’m honoured to introduce today, from EllisDon, Tom Howell, and also, from the Carpenters’ Union today, Mike Yorke and Carlos Pimentel.

Mr. Rick Bartolucci: I’m pleased to introduce a former student of mine, Tim Butler, who is the business manager for the IBEW in Sudbury. Welcome, Tim.

Mr. Monte McNaughton: I’d also like to introduce a good friend to members here at Queen’s Park: Les Liversidge. Thank you, Les, for coming today.

Hon. John Milloy: We have a large group from my riding who are here to visit page Kathleen Strathdee, known as Kate. We have Kathleen’s parents, Mike and Carolyn Strathdee; her sister, Ella Strathdee; her grandmother, Diane Furtney; her aunt, Gloria Strathdee; her cousin, Rachel Strathdee; a Strathdee family friend and an exchange student from Austria, Jakob Allmer; her uncle, Al Strathdee, who was a page here in 1979; her cousin, William Strathdee; and Mike and Linda Dehaan, who are their host family in Toronto. We welcome them here today.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): We have a quorum.

M me France Gélinas: I have visitors today, and I’m really pleased to introduce them. They are Cathy Burns from the Canadian Cancer Society’s Sudbury chapter, as well as Suzanne Pellerin from my riding, who does tremendous volunteer work for the cancer society. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

L’hon. Madeleine Meilleur: Ça me fait plaisir de souhaiter la bienvenue aujourd’hui à M. Carol Jolin, président de l’Association des enseignantes et des enseignants franco-ontariens. Son association représente presque 10 000 membres et plusieurs, plusieurs écoles en Ontario. Alors, bienvenue Carol.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: It’s my pleasure to introduce and welcome today James St. John, business manager, Central Ontario Building Trades; Greg Mitchell, business manager, United Association Sprinkler Fitters Local 853; Jim Hogarth, business manager, Ontario Pipe Trades Council; and Peter Reed, business representative, Central Ontario Building Trades.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: In addition to Tom Howell and Mike Yorke, I want to welcome John Grimshaw and Tim Fenton.

From Ottawa, I want to welcome Marcel Lapensee, Floyd Cunning, John Harrison, Georges Lessard, Brian Masse and Richard Hayter. Welcome to your Queen’s Park.

Mr. Todd Smith: I would like to welcome Amy Stinson to Queen’s Park. Amy has been a co-op placement student from FNTI on the Tyendinaga Mohawk territory, and she has been volunteering in my office for the last couple of weeks as a member there. So welcome to Amy.

Hon. Liz Sandals: I’m pleased to welcome this morning Isabella Rodas, who is actually in the west members’ gallery. Isabella is a grade 11 student who is joining us today from Big Brothers Big Sisters to learn how Queen’s Park works, so we should all behave.

Most recently Isabella was on Parliament Hill, so welcome to Isabella. With her is Lauren Ramey—she was on Parliament Hill before; now she’s at Queen’s Park. Also welcome Lauren Ramey, my press secretary.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: I noticed up in the public gallery that the Green Party of Ontario leader, Mike Schreiner, who’s also the candidate for the Greens in Guelph, is here today. Hello, Mike.

Hon. Reza Moridi: It’s my pleasure to welcome the consul general of Turkey, Mr. Ali Riza Güney, on the occasion of the 90th anniversary of the Turkish republic, and the delegation from the Turkish community in the members’ gallery up there: Mr. Huseyin Nurgel, president of the Federation of Canadian Turkish Associations; Mr. Ismail Vataner, president of the Turkish Federation Community Foundation; Mehmet Okem, president of the Fenerbahce Canada association; Umit Eruysal, president of the Turkish Culture and Folklore Society of Canada; and Cavat Zerrin, president of the Azerbaijani community association of Canada. Welcome to the Ontario Legislature.

Mr. Bill Mauro: Unbeknownst to me, we’ve got, sitting up in the gallery there, an old friend of mine from plumbers and fitters local 628 in Thunder Bay, Terry Webb. I welcome him to the Legislature.

Hon. Glen R. Murray: We are very proud to have a page from Toronto Centre, Louis Frank. His mom, Naomi, his dad, Steve, and his sister, Ella, join us here in the gallery today. I’d like to welcome them.

Mr. Bas Balkissoon: I’m pleased to introduce my legislative intern for this session, Vanessa Dupuis, in the west gallery, from the great riding of Richmond Hill.

Hon. Michael Gravelle: I want to welcome a good friend of many people in the Legislature today: Mr. Robert Simpson, the president of HopeLink International, here in the members’ gallery, of course. HopeLink International does great skills development upgrade work in many countries, including Canada. Welcome, Robert. It’s good to see you.

Mr. Steven Del Duca: I’d like to welcome to the members’ gallery here my legislative intern—my new legislative intern—Lauren Millar, and also my legislative assistant, Andrea Ernesaks. They both do an outstanding job in my office.

ORAL QUESTIONS

JOB CREATION

Mr. Tim Hudak: My question, I guess, today is to the Deputy Premier—

Interjection.

Mr. Tim Hudak: —Acting Premier; to the Acting Premier. I had to look down the whole row.

It’s a good question for you, actually, because over a month ago, we worked together to clear the decks, to move aside legislation that was clogging up the system, so we could clear the way for a plan for job creation, to grow our economy and encourage investment.

That was a month ago, House leader, but unfortunately, since then, I feel the Premier has reneged on our deal. You’ve not brought forward any job creation initiatives, but you’ve brought forward new ideas, for example, to bring in labelling on McDonald’s menus and a new 24/7 dispatch service for animals when you can’t even run Ornge for human beings.

Minister, where is the jobs plan? How did this get on the agenda instead of what was promised to the PC caucus?

Hon. John Milloy: I think our record speaks for itself when it comes to job creation in this province—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I will go straight for the individual: The member from Lambton–Kent–Middlesex, come to order. Thank you.

Carry on.

Hon. John Milloy: Ontario has created 475,600 new jobs since the recession, meaning we’ve recovered 179% of the jobs created compared to the USA at 78% and the UK at 127%. We could talk about our comprehensive youth jobs strategy, which is already allowing youth across this province to access the types of experience they need so that they can find jobs.

But you know, Mr. Speaker, I want to focus on one piece of legislation that’s before the Legislature right now—Bill 105, which would lower taxes for small business—and ask the Leader of the Opposition why his party continues to delay the passage of that bill.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary.

Mr. Tim Hudak: The minister says that the record speaks for itself, precisely making the point that I am. Minister, yesterday the finance minister stood up and said that the Ontario economy is slowing, that we need to once again lower our expectations. If I hear that, that tells me that you’re doing something wrong, not more of the same.

Let me give you some examples. You promised that the Green Energy Act would create 50,000 new jobs. Well—

Mr. John Yakabuski: Wrong.

Mr. Tim Hudak: —you’re wrong. I ask you: Where are those jobs?

You promised the HST would create 600,000 more jobs.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Wrong.

Mr. Tim Hudak: You’re wrong. I ask you: Where are those jobs?

I’m proud the PC caucus has brought forward a comprehensive plan to make Ontario number one in job creation, number one in investment, not in the back of the pack. I’ll ask you again: You sat there at the cabinet table, Minister. Why did you move to the front of the line the menu at McDonald’s and an animal welfare 24/7 line instead of creating jobs for men and women in the province of Ontario?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please.

Hon. John Milloy: I know the Minister of Economic Development, Trade and Employment will want to comment on this, but let’s play a little bit of compare and contrast. Let’s look at the so-called PC white papers. Do you know what they would do? They would result in the firing of 10,000 education workers. They would result in the firing of 2,000 health care workers. They would drive down wages in this province with their harmful right-to-work-for-less legislation.

We found out on the transit front that the Leader of the Opposition’s back-of-the-envelope plan—which Mayor Hazel McCallion came out swinging against this morning, by the way—would result in the cancellation of transit plans across this region, which in turn would lead to lower economic growth and also affect infrastructure. We have a plan, not like the half-baked plan that the Leader of the Opposition puts forward, which would only result in job losses in this province.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Mr. Tim Hudak: Well, again, I’ve asked where the jobs plan is. I thought we had a deal, and you’ve reneged on this deal. You’ve not brought forward any new ideas to create jobs. I don’t understand why you’re putting forward these other initiatives instead of helping people in manufacturing get good jobs so they can put bread on the table for their families. We’ve lost 300,000 manufacturing jobs.

Your finance minister has said that growth is actually slowing in the province of Ontario. I don’t know about you, but I’m tired of Ontario falling behind. I’m tired of young men and young women having to leave this province to go to Saskatchewan and Alberta to get a good job. I’m tired of businesses leaping over Ontario to go to the States or other provinces to open up. I want to see this in Ontario.

We have a plan. We’re ready to put it out there. We can turn this province around. What’s wrong with you? Where is your plan? Bring it forward. Will we actually see it on November 7, or are you kicking this down the road once again?

Hon. John Milloy: The Minister of Economic Development, Trade and Employment.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: It’s unfortunate that the leader of the official opposition continues to talk down Ontario’s economy. While he does that, over here on this side we are creating jobs. As was referenced already, nearly 500,000 jobs have been created since the bottom of the recession, and 95% of those jobs are full-time jobs. About 80% of them are in the private sector, as well.

We created a new trade strategy just a few weeks ago that we released; I guess the official opposition wasn’t listening to that or our new social enterprise strategy that’s going to be creating thousands of jobs. As well, our youth jobs strategy—$295 million over the next two years, which is estimated to create at least 30,000 jobs.

We’ve been working hard on this side. In fact, when you think of our Eastern Ontario and Southwestern Ontario Development Funds, they created and retained more than 22,000 jobs. We’ve contributed as a government—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Answer.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: —leveraged almost a billion dollars from the private sector.

ONTARIO ECONOMY

Mr. Tim Hudak: Back to the Acting Premier today. I guess I’ll make this point again: The economic development and trade minister rhymes off all kinds of government spending programs financed by higher taxes on families and businesses. I’d argue that you’ve tried that for 10 years. Our growth rate is slowing. We’re at the back of the pack in job creation. Isn’t it time to try another plan?

Let me tell you another impact of the Liberal mismanagement of our economy. Today is actually the four-year anniversary date of our credit downgrade. Under the Liberals of Kathleen Wynne, we’ve had three consecutive credit rating downgrades. I’m proud to say that under a PC government, we actually had nine credit improvements and upgrades in the province of Ontario. I’d contrast that any day.

Let me ask you, now that we’re at the four-year anniversary of our credit rating downgrade, what have you actually done to get us an upgrade? Why aren’t we moving forward, instead of falling further and further backward, in our great province?

Hon. John Milloy: When we came to office, we inherited a secret $5.6-billion deficit. That member sat around the cabinet table and allowed the Magna budget to come forward with that hidden deficit—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Simcoe North, come to order.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Thunder Bay, I’m trying to do something here. Thank you.

The member from Simcoe North will come to order.

Finish.

Hon. John Milloy: Mr. Speaker, we cleaned up that deficit, and during the recession we invested significantly, as did every government across this country, including their cousins in Ottawa, indeed every government across the world. We are, right now, in the fourth year of seeing that deficit being reduced in a responsible fashion and not engaging in the slashing and burning that is the hallmark—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Tim Hudak: I had hoped, on a very serious issue, we would get a more serious response from the House leader. This is the four-year anniversary of the third—no, the original; we’ve had three credit rating downgrades under the Liberals.

Let me tell you why this is important. It’s just like your credit score. The worse rating you have, the more difficult it is to borrow, to finance a mortgage, to get a car. That means, in the province of Ontario, we’re paying more in debt interest, which means less money for doctors or for nurses. I’d rather see us invest in priorities like health care than send it to our overseas lenders—a very straightforward point.

Can we expect, Minister, in the economic statement that you announced for November 7, a comprehensive plan to actually reduce spending and improve Ontario’s credit score, or are we just going to get more of the same?

Hon. John Milloy: When it comes to program spending, let me share some of the stats here. With program spending, we now have an annual rate of less than 1% on average, which we’re projecting forward between now and 2017-18. We’re continuing to move forward with 60% of the Drummond recommendations this year. We are transforming public services for better results.

We have brought down the deficit year after year in a responsible way. We haven’t engaged in the type of slashing and burning that has been the hallmark of the PC Party. I’ve read those white papers, and they scare me. They are shades of what Mike Harris and the Leader of the Opposition did to this province.

We need a responsible way. We need to get the deficit under control, but we are going to do it in a way that rejects what happened in the past.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary?

Mr. Tim Hudak: Well, again, I’ll stress, Minister, four years on, the credit rating remains downgraded. There is no hope for an upgrade. That’s not the case in Alberta or British Columbia where they’ve maintained AAA credit ratings. Saskatchewan has had an upgrade. You say you blame the international crisis. Well, while other provinces have actually moved forward, Ontario is falling further and further behind.

I know that your caucus is in a bit of a dispute; you want to kick up the balanced budget date farther past 2018. At least those caucus members are being honest because you have no plan to balance the books. But you know what? I say that’s not good enough.

We’ve put a plan on the table that will actually get spending under control to balance our books, to pay down debt. That’s what we need for economic growth.

I’ll ask you one time, because I assume that you’ve been at the cabinet table and you’ve had a preview. Please don’t tell us on November 7 that you’re going to kick this can down the road even more. We can’t afford it. I want jobs in Ontario not going out of Ontario.

Will you at least implement our plan if you have no clue on how to get the books back to balance?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock, please. Be seated, please. Thank you.

Acting Premier.

Hon. John Milloy: Mr. Speaker, we have seen their plan before and it involves selling Highway 407 at bargain basement prices. The fact of the matter is that governments around the world invested significantly and, yes, drove up deficits during a time of recession, one of the worse recessions to hit the western world since the 1930s. We are in the process of reducing the deficit. We are doing it in a balanced way; we are not engaging in the slashing and burning of the opposition. We are holding government spending tight.

We are restraining wages, and we are finding ways to work together to make sure that we reach that target of 2017-18 in a responsible way. The honourable member will hear more on November 7.

ENERGY POLICIES

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is for the Minister of Energy. Families and businesses paying some of the highest electricity rates in Canada are tired of getting hit with the cost of electricity decisions that are being made behind closed doors. Is the Liberal government ready to take some simple, concrete steps to ensure real accountability and transparency to folks who are stuck paying the bills?

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: Mr. Speaker, I want to say first of all that when we took over government there was a deficit in electricity infrastructure. We’ve invested $21 billion in generation. We’ve invested $10 billion in new transmission and upgraded transmission. We have converted 25% coal generation, which they created, to zero coal generation in the province.

In the meantime, we have taken some very positive steps which the NDP has voted against in terms of mitigating electricity prices, including the Ontario Clean Energy Benefit, which provides a 10% discount to families and small businessmen and farmers; the energy and property tax credit; and the Northern Ontario Energy Credit. They voted against every single one of them, every single price mitigation.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Speaker, people are tired of seeing this government sign electricity contracts and make electricity decisions without any concern for the people who are stuck paying the bills. We know the government wasted over a billion dollars on cancelled private power deals in Oakville and Mississauga. The Auditor General was able to get us some answers on that, but we still don’t know how much money the government spent signing contracts for nuclear power plans that they just finished scrapping. The government says it spent $180 million, but all we know is that the game around here tends to be, how high can we go?

What we want to know is if the government, if this minister, will provide some transparency and tell the auditor to actually review the books on the cancelled plans.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: Mr. Speaker, the leader of the third party references our decision to defer new nuclear and the costs that may have been incurred in preparation for that. First of all, deferring new nuclear was the right decision. It has received support across the province. It is going to save us an investment of $15 billion in the system which otherwise would be creating new power which we don’t need because we created a surplus situation.

The $180 million that she’s referring to has been invested in environmental approvals, project planning, and public and stakeholder consultations around the new build. It has enabled us to obtain a 10-year licence to build new nuclear, should we decide to move in that direction under our new long-term energy plan. We’ve been responsible, Mr. Speaker, and the $15 billion not being spent in new nuclear will mitigate rate increases, which is exactly the point that she’s taking about.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Well, Speaker, people deserve some basic answers on the sky-high cost of electricity, and all they get from their government is evasion and excuses. New Democrats have asked the Premier to appear at the justice committee to explain new revelations by the auditor that she signed off on an arbitration which the auditor said favoured a private power company and drove up costs for Ontarians. The Premier said she won’t come this Thursday.

Can the minister tell us when the Premier will actually walk the walk on transparency and come to the gas plant committee to answer questions about her role in the arbitration agreement specifically highlighted by the auditor?

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: Mr. Speaker, the Premier has been very open and transparent. She’s been to committee. She has taken very significant initiatives on transparency, disclosing documents and going to the committee.

What the people of Ontario want to know is, what is the NDP policy on energy? What is your policy on renewables? What is your policy on wind? What is your policy on refurbishment of the units?

More particularly, Mr. Speaker, what she is really, really upset about is the fact that we have been inundated by her supporters for our decision on deferring new nuclear. We have hundreds, if not thousands, of congratulations and thank yous. We’re stealing her thunder, and she won’t talk about the deferral of new nuclear.

AIR QUALITY

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My next question is actually to the Acting Premier. I want to ask a question about another issue that’s hitting household budgets pretty hard these days.

Drivers in Ontario are paying some of the highest auto insurance in the country and the government is letting those rates continue to climb in Ontario. Rates aren’t going anywhere but up for drivers. Does the Acting Premier think it’s fair that drivers are forced to pay the cost of testing and retesting their cars now, even when their cars are meeting all appropriate emissions standards?

Hon. John Milloy: In terms of auto insurance, we’ve been very, very clear. We brought forward a plan; it was a well-thought-out plan which involves co-operation with the industry, where we plan to see auto insurance premiums reduced by an average of 15% over the next two years. These changes build on our existing plan, the plans that have been in place. We have set out benchmarks—the Minister of Finance has reported on this to the Legislature—that we will see over the coming months as we see auto insurance rates reduced here in the province of Ontario.

It is a plan that is, as I say, based upon consultation with the industry. It has a number of elements. Over time, we are going to achieve real results for the drivers here in the province of Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: The point of the Drive Clean program was to reduce smog and air pollution, but the program is failing more new cars that produce less smog and failing fewer older cars that are producing more smog, and forcing drivers to pay for retesting even when the problem is with the testing equipment, not the car.

This is a program that isn’t producing results and is making life more expensive for Ontarians. Does the Acting Premier think that’s fair?

Hon. John Milloy: The Minister of the Environment.

Hon. James J. Bradley: I would have expected that those who would be opposed to this program environmentally would be asking this question. I must say, I’m surprised that the leader of the New Democratic Party is asking this specific question.

She would know, for instance, that the Ontario Medical Association believes that this program is an excellent program, that the Ontario Lung Association believes it is essential, and that the asthma association believes it’s essential. Gideon Forman, executive director of the Canadian Association of Physicians for the Environment, says: “Programs like Drive Clean—which reduce smog components and poisons such as carbon monoxide—are very important to public health. Our doctors believe that, far from being eliminated, these programs should be strengthened,” and that’s precisely what is happening.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Well, I think the minister avoided the question about whether or not the program is actually effective in terms of the testing, which was the question.

People feel like they’re being squeezed in tough financial times. The government promised that auto insurance rates would come down, but of course, the government keeps dragging its feet and people keep seeing increases. The government is giving a billion-dollar HST break to corporations, and every day people are being told they’ll be getting a bill for new taxes and new tolls that will cost $1,000 a year.

The government told people that Drive Clean would be revenue-neutral and it would make sure we would reduce smog in our air, but it’s failing clean cars and passing dirty cars, and people are wondering what the heck they’re paying for.

Does the Acting Premier think this program is actually working?

Hon. James J. Bradley: Once again, I must express—I know the New Democratic Party is going through a bit of a change here where they want to take on the populist stance or the consumer stance—I understand that—at the sacrifice of the environmental programs that we have in place.

Many of the Auditor General’s suggestions, for instance, for program improvement are captured in the recent program changes. She would know that there are 33 jurisdictions, I believe, in North America that have exactly the same program. It is a more precise test. It is a better test that’s identifying problems.

I’m really, really surprised that the New Democratic Party—and I know their critics must be cringing at hearing this——is taking this particular stance on a program that is reducing dramatically—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. New question.

PAN AM GAMES

Mr. Rod Jackson: My question is to the minister responsible for the Pan Am Games. Minister, Ontarians have a right to know how much the Pan Am Games are going to cost them. We were all led to believe by the bid book that the total cost for the Pan Am Games would be about $1.4 billion—with other partners, as you continue to point out. But the issue is that the Ontario Liberal government has tacked on an extra $1.1 billion in costs. What is that, a magic Liberal scandal number? Pan Am projects like the athletes’ village, the air-rail link, the hidden secretariat money, the Pan Am trail, not including security and transportation—they’re all outside the original budget.

Minister, what is the total cost of the Pan Am Games? Do you have a number, and if not, why not?

Hon. Michael Chan: Thank you for the question. Speaker, I thought later on tonight, I would be having a more detailed debate with the honourable member, but that was cancelled for tonight. I wonder why it was cancelled.

Anyhow, my ministry is working hard on two pieces at the moment: One is the transportation; the other one is the security. The transportation is a complex file. The footprint is quite large; it involves 10,000 square kilometres and 14 local governments. At the moment, some of our current planning priorities include establishing a safe and reliable route network for athletes and officials, strategies to handle an influx of spectators, an integrated signing plan and other ways to ensure successful games transportation.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary.

Mr. Rod Jackson: Minister, it is a complex file, and that’s why it’s disturbing that you don’t have a grip on it. We would love an answer to these simple questions. What is the cost to Ontarians? The stock answer that you’ve been giving is going to become even more embarrassing once we get the documents for the estimates on November 19. It’s not just your doublespeak, Minister, that’s the problem; it’s that you are giving away more of our—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Withdraw, please.

Mr. Rod Jackson: Withdrawn, Speaker.

It’s that you are giving away more of our money as a bonus to executives for a false budget. You budget is two years out of date and severely flawed. But despite your smoke and mirrors, we have confirmed at least an additional $1.1 billion for Pan Am. Minister, you continue to misinform the public about the total cost—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member will withdraw.

Mr. Rod Jackson: Okay. Withdrawn.

You refuse to answer to transportation costs and think the sky is the limit on security. Minister, you are not accountable. Will you step down today and let someone—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. Be seated, please.

Minister.

Hon. Michael Chan: Thank you very much for the question. The member is the king of the creation of nonsense numbers. He is the king of fabrication of stories that undermine the Pan and Parapan American Games. Speaker, the member opposite wants to cut the ties with 41 countries. He wants to take away the 26,000 jobs we’re going to create. He wants to destroy the capital projects we have built so far. He wants to dampen the spirits of the competitors. He wants to demolish all the legacy of the Pan and Parapan American Games, and that’s not good.

HORSE RACING INDUSTRY

Mr. Taras Natyshak: My question is to the Minister of Rural Affairs. The Premier charges that the Slots at Racetracks Program was not accountable, but she is the one who is keeping racetrack audits top secret. Not-for-profit track operators like the Fort Erie Race Track have opened their books because they have nothing to hide. Now they are the ones getting cut out of the Liberal plan because of their honesty.

When will the Premier make the audits public so that we can see how much for-profit giants like Woodbine spent on bonuses, perks, reserves and executive compensation?

Hon. Jeff Leal: Our goal is to have a sustainable horse racing industry in the province of Ontario. Our government has a plan, a plan to invest in people and infrastructure and support an innovative, dynamic environment where business can succeed. That’s why we created a new $400-million five-year horse racing partnership plan under the auspices of Mr. Snobelen, Mr. Buchanan and Mr. Wilkinson. We believe that our horse racing sustainability plan will strengthen and promote live racing in the province of Ontario. It will stabilize the industry and grow both the fan base and the wagering revenues.

It will also be—I emphasize—accountable and transparent and will provide a positive return on investment of public funds. The plan also calls for restructured governance in the province of Ontario. Collaboration and co-operation will be critical in moving forward a horse racing plan that’s integrated with the OLG’s modernization plan.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Taras Natyshak: Back to the Minister of Rural Affairs: The Premier has a panel on horse racing and she has a panel on openness, but she’d rather not say how much Woodbine executives paid themselves with SARP money meant for horses because this government knows how to back their own winner. It knows how to turn its back on horse people and track workers in Fort Erie and communities all across rural Ontario.

Speaker, my question is simple: Will the government come clean and make the track audits public—yes or no?

Hon. Jeff Leal: Mr. Speaker, I was at Leamington last Friday. There’s a positive buzz in Leamington for the future horse racing in that community.

We have recognized for over a year that the Slots at Racetracks Program was unaccountable and lacked transparency. That’s why we cancelled it. The program was reviewed by Sadinsky, Drummond and our transitional panel.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Order. The member asked the question.

Hon. Jeff Leal: The previous tracks’ books were reviewed by third party audits. The Auditor General is currently looking at the program. This is not an area that lacks scrutiny across the province of Ontario.

We’ve learned a lesson from the previous PC program, and we’ve set in place a new modern program that’s transparent, accountable and a pathway for the future.

RURAL ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT

Ms. Helena Jaczek: Mr. Speaker, my question, through you, is also to the Minister of Rural Affairs. Ontario’s small and rural communities have many unique and diverse challenges when it comes to economic development and small business growth. Currently, there are a number of programs designed to assist rural municipalities with these challenges, such as the Southwestern Ontario Development Fund and the Eastern Ontario Development Fund. Although these programs address many important priorities, there is always room to do more.

A program that was very popular in my community and in many others across Ontario was the Rural Economic Development, or RED, program. Mr. Speaker, through you to the Minister of Rural Affairs, could the minister please update the House on what our government is doing to strengthen and diversify the economies of rural communities?

Hon. Jeff Leal: I want to thank the member from Oak Ridges–Markham for asking me that question. Just recently, I was in her community to celebrate the Markham fall fair, which was a wonderful event for that community.

Our government is committed to working with rural stakeholders to build strong, vibrant rural communities and businesses throughout Ontario. One way we’re meeting this goal is through the relaunch of the Rural Economic Development program. The relaunched program is now accepting applications for the $4.5 million that’s available this fiscal year.

The RED program helps our rural municipalities, including Oak Ridges–Markham, create jobs and attract investment by promoting innovative partnerships. Since 2003, the RED program and our government have invested over $167 million in 418 projects, generated over $1.2 billion in economic activity and supported the creation or retention of over 35,000 jobs. Moving forward, the RED program reflects our government’s renewed commitment to rural Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Helena Jaczek: Thank you to the minister for that answer. Constituents in my great riding of Oak Ridges–Markham will be pleased to hear that our government is continuing to invest in the RED program. I know first-hand that, in the past, small businesses in my riding from the town of Whitchurch-Stouffville and the township of King have benefited from both business retention and expansion projects through the RED program.

Previously, RED focused on initiatives that included downtown revitalization and food processing sector development. I’m sure my constituents and others from rural communities across the province will be interested in understanding the focus of the relaunched program.

Speaker, through you to the minister, could the minister please elaborate on what kinds of projects RED will be focused on?

Hon. Jeff Leal: I want to thank the member for her supplementary. The RED program is focused on those high-value, low-cost projects that create jobs and diversify economies in rural Ontario. Projects could include downtown revitalization, regional marketing and promotion, business development and diversification, and community expansion, to name a few.

I encourage all rural municipalities to take a look at the relaunched RED program to see how it could help them with their priorities. Applications are available online or by contacting my ministry directly. Rural Ontario communities deserve a real focus by this government. By renewing our commitment to the RED program, our government is supporting a dynamic and innovative business climate in all corners of the province of Ontario, working to build a successful and vibrant one Ontario.

AIR QUALITY

Mr. Michael Harris: My question is to the Minister of the Environment. Minister, it has now been almost a full year since the Auditor General warned you that collecting a surplus on a revenue-neutral program like Drive Clean is an illegal tax. But instead of following the Auditor General’s advice, you nearly doubled the surplus of the Drive Clean program. That’s right: Under the Liberal government, Ontarians are now paying—wait for it—$19 million in illegal Drive Clean taxes every year. This needs to be corrected now.

Minister, a simple question: Will you commit to ending this illegal tax grab today?

Hon. James J.

Bradley: Well, I know that the Conservative Party has been attacking the program, despite the fact that when the changes are made to the program, people such as Gord Miller, the Environmental Commissioner of Ontario, said in his 2011-12 report, “Likewise, the Drive Clean program has undergone a number of independent program reviews that concluded significant reductions in smog-causing pollutants were being achieved, but that further reductions could result from program improvements, including the implementation of on-board diagnostics emissions testing which is currently under way,” and which is conducted in over 30 jurisdictions in North America.

So we are not unique in that at all.

So I’m very surprised that the member continues to attack the program, which is in fact taking 36,000 tonnes of smog out of our air every year and stopping the contribution to 2,500 premature deaths a year, according to the Ontario Medical Association.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Leeds–Grenville will come to order. Answer.

Hon. James J. Bradley: So I’m surprised that the member continues to attack a program which is improving the air quality in this province measurably.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Michael Harris: Minister, I’ll get you to put your earpiece in your ear. I’m talking about the surplus here, not about the program itself. We all know the program you brought in is not about protecting the environment; in fact, it’s all about the money. The courts have ruled that you cannot make money off a revenue-neutral program, so it’s not acceptable to continue to ignore the Auditor General’s advice until your next budget, as was reported last night on CTV. That’s like getting caught for pickpocketing and then telling the police you’ll stop a few months from now.

Wrongdoing should be corrected immediately, not when the perpetrator feels like it. It’s not right to make Ontarians pay illegal taxes for one more day, especially for a temporary program that is long past the expiry date.

So, Minister, will you commit to ending the illegal Drive Clean surplus and pay back the excess money collected to Ontario drivers today?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. Be seated, please.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Excuse me. I’m trying to get attention. Thank you. The need for an earpiece would not be necessary if the heckling stopped.

Carry on.

Hon. James J. Bradley: The member would be aware, of course, that the program was in fact established by the Conservative government in 1999 and was in fact in deficit for the first decade of the program; in other words, there was a net cost to the province of Ontario for this program. Only at the end of 2011 was it concluded that it had become revenue-neutral.

By the way, I should say this, because your leader, who was a member of the cabinet, would remember this: The only raise in the cost of the fee came from—you guessed it—the Conservative Party. The Conservative government raised it from $30 to $35.

Now, I have asked and am working with the Minister of Finance to ensure that this program becomes, as it is designed to be, revenue-neutral, and—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I’m disturbed by some of the heckling I’m now hearing. I’ll act quickly for it to stop. New question.

MINING INDUSTRY

Mr. Michael Mantha: My question is to the Minister of Northern Development and Mines. In May 2012, the Premier said, “In order for the Ring of Fire development to go forward ... in the best way possible, we know that this is a partnership: the federal government, First Nations, the provincial government and the companies working together.”

Yet, just two weeks ago, Cliffs was forced to consider pulling out of the Ring of Fire because this government refuses to provide direction in Ring of Fire development. Last Friday, Northern Superior Resources was forced to sue the government for failing to play a role in consultation with First Nations. How can this government ask partners to work together while it refuses to play a role in creating a plan for mining development and job creation?

Hon. Michael Gravelle: I appreciate the question, and I think, as the member understands very well, we are indeed working with all our partners very, very closely. We’re certainly involved in very significant and important discussions, if not negotiations, with the Matawa First Nations, something that we hope will lead us towards a much greater opportunity to work together with them as well on a number of issues that are very important.

We’re working in terms of skills upgrading and skills training to have people prepared for the Ring of Fire. We’re certainly also working with the federal government, as well, trying to get them to play a true partnership role, and, may I say, with the companies. We continue to work closely in a focused way with all the companies: Cliffs Natural Resources, Noront Resources and KWG Resources.

This is a complex and complicated project, one that will make such a difference to so many over so many years—a multi-generational opportunity—and, indeed, that’s the opportunity that we have to work together with the work that, obviously, all of us can do here in the Legislature together.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Michael Mantha: Again, my question is to the minister. Minister, last week you said, “We’re having discussions with all interested companies. Those discussions obviously will include important infrastructure links.”

The government is announcing that thousands of jobs will come to the province, but yet no work on the ground is being done to create these jobs. There is no training of the workforce to meet the demand. There is no plan for infrastructure and there is no electricity rate reduction.

For six years, this government has talked the talk, but has done nothing on the ground to create the jobs and consult the communities. What will it take for this government to actually develop a plan for Ring of Fire development and job creation in the north?

Hon. Michael Gravelle: The member could not be more wrong in almost every aspect of what he just referenced.

Certainly, in terms of the skills training and upgrading, we’ve provided skills training and upgrading to over 800 people. We’ve consulted, on a number of bases, with First Nation communities, as well as all kinds of other northern municipal leaders and on a variety of aspects as well. In terms of the companies, we recognize how important infrastructure is. That’s why we are looking very closely at a variety of options.

Our obligation, and what your expectation would be, is that we make an appropriate assessment to say, “What is the best decision in terms of the role the province should be playing in terms of infrastructure?” That’s exactly what we’re doing, and that’s why we’re going to continue to work as closely as we can with Cliffs and with the other companies, with Noront and with KWG.

I think you recognize what a complex project—it’s a multi-faceted project, but one that we are extremely excited about, continue to be excited about, continue to view as a real priority, and one that I will, as minister—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. New question.

PUBLIC TRANSIT

Mrs. Amrit Mangat: My question is to the Minister of Transportation. Constituents in my riding of Mississauga–Brampton South constantly contact me at my constituency office to find out about improvements to public transit in Mississauga and Brampton.

My constituents face the worst gridlock in the province, and can spend over one to two hours commuting to and from work. Yesterday, the mayor of Mississauga expressed her concern on the recent comments by the Leader of the Opposition on cancelling the planned LRT project in Mississauga, a project that would get residents moving. Now my constituents are worried about the future of projects in Peel. Can the minister please assure them that better transit is on the way?

Hon. Glen R. Murray: I want to thank the member for her constant and unwavering support for the Hurontario LRT and the five rapid transit projects we have going on in Peel region right now. Mayor McCallion is quite right and has led a boom in commercial development and residential development as a result of these, and the cancellation of them would mean a major loss of jobs.

I got my hands on the Conservatives’ election strategy in Peel region, and they’ve got a new set of slogans, Mr. Speaker. The MPP for Etobicoke–Lakeshore is going to be running on a slogan called “Down with Up”; the MPP for Durham will be running on the slogan “Slim Pickings for Pulse”; the MPP for Dufferin–Caledon is running on a slogan of “Zero for Züm”; and the MPPs for Thornhill and Newmarket–Aurora are running on the catchy slogan “Hasta la vista, Viva.”

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary.

Mrs. Amrit Mangat: Thank you to the minister for the clarification. My constituents will be happy to know this government is committed to better public transit and supporting municipalities with initiatives like this.

Speaker, my constituents want to know more about the transit projects in Mississauga and Brampton and how they fit in our government’s investment strategy. Can the minister tell us more on the LRT and BRT projects that are under consideration in the region of Peel?

Hon. Glen R. Murray: Mr. Speaker, the official opposition not only has no jobs plan, no economic development plan; they have an anti-investment plan. Cancelling rapid transit in Kitchener, Hamilton, Mississauga, Brampton, Oshawa and Scarborough would devastate commercial investment.

It’s interesting that the construction trades are here, because we’re working very hard with them on apprenticeship programs and on community benefits. All of these people here today are counting on hundreds of thousands of person-years for pipefitters, electricians and ironworkers.

He is cutting their throats. He’s eliminating their jobs, and he is undermining the regional economies of this province. That is economically incompetent. That is not a jobs plan; that is a jobs-killing plan—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock.

Be seated, please. Be seated, please.

I would be remiss if I did not remind the member and all members, particularly when questions are asked of government policy, that it should be woven with government policy, and in the next round I will be listening carefully to ensure that that takes place.

New question.

HOSPITAL FUNDING

Mr. Tim Hudak: A question to the Acting Premier: We’re going to continue our pursuit of a new hospital for residents of south Niagara. We’re on side with folks in Niagara Falls, Fort Erie, Port Colborne and Welland who want to see a new site. You’ve already cancelled the West Lincoln Memorial site.

Minister, the Liberals, under Kathleen Wynne, almost seem to believe that when you cross the Burlington Skyway, you’ve entered into New York state.

Let me make the case of why this is valid. Your own adviser, Kevin Smith, has said you actually save money here. It’s $285 million cheaper to build a modern facility in Niagara Falls than to keep the existing sites open. He also makes the case that you can save $10 million a year in administration that you can then put into hiring more nurses and attracting more doctors.

So I ask you, what’s not to like about this plan? It saves money, it improves care and it’s on side with hard-working families in south Niagara. Why are you against it?

Hon. John Milloy: Mr. Speaker, I think the Minister of Health has commented on this. There obviously is a debate within the Niagara community about this issue. I think the Leader of the Opposition knows there are many steps that must be taken before the government can make decisions on a new capital project such as this, including the submission of a proposal. We’re currently reviewing the NHS proposal.

Funding is up at the NHS. It’s receiving over $330 million this year, a $127-million increase since 2003, which represents 62%.

As my friend the Minister of the Environment reminds me constantly, we’ve invested in a new, state-of-the-art hospital to replace the existing St. Catharines General site and Ontario Street site. This 375-bed facility offers acute and critical in-patient services, surgical, emergency and ambulatory services for residents of St. Catharines—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Tim Hudak: Minister, if you agree with the case for north Niagara, why are you against it for south Niagara and west Niagara? Why are you picking sides based on if the riding is represented by a Liberal or represented by somebody else? I think these interests should be done in the best interest of health care for local residents.

Kevin Smith is your adviser. He’s made the recommendation. It sat on your desk for over a year. The NDP has made their position clear: They’re against it. They’ve called it preposterous—but at least they have a position. It’s got to be awfully difficult sitting on that fence for over a year, now, Minister—in fact, over a year. That’s got to hurt. So get off the fence. Make a decision. And please don’t tell us you’re going to have another panel to study a previous panel. Get off the fence; make the call. I know where we stand: We support the hospital in Niagara Falls. Why don’t you?

Do you really think Niagara is part of New York state? Or will you make the right decision for the people in south Niagara?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock, please. Be seated, please. Thank you.

Acting Premier.

Hon. John Milloy: You know, Mr. Speaker, I wasn’t around to know the process that took place when the Leader of the Opposition was in government and he closed 28 hospitals. But I do know, from reading the PC white paper, that their plan calls for the firing of 2,000 nurses, which once again marks shades of the Harris government, where we saw cuts to health care and increased waiting times.

The fact of the matter is that under our watch, we have seen increases in the number of new hospitals and hospital refurbishments across Ontario. I’d invite the Leader of the Opposition to ask his colleague from Simcoe North about the Waypoint Centre for Mental Health Care; ask his colleague from Barrie about the Royal Victoria Hospital expansion; ask his friend from Cambridge about the Cambridge hospital redevelopment; from Burlington about the Joseph Brant Hospital expansion; in Halton, the Milton District Hospital expansion. Mr. Speaker, I could go on—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. No, you won’t.

New question.

WORKPLACE SAFETY

Ms. Catherine Fife: My question is to the Minister of Labour. Nick Lalonde was a young father, husband and worker. He died from a fall at a construction site in my riding just over three weeks ago. On Christmas Eve, 2009, four workers in Toronto were killed when the scaffolding they were working on collapsed. The subsequent investigation into workplace safety, led by Tony Dean, recommended among other changes the introduction of mandatory fall prevention safety training for workers.

As the minister knows, the development of that fall prevention safety standard and regulation has been going on for a number of years now. When does this government expect the heights training regulation to come into force?

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: I thank the member opposite for asking a very important question about an incident that I’m very much aware about in her community, in Waterloo. I was very saddened to hear about this particular incident, and every incident we hear when somebody at work is injured or, worse, loses their life.

The member opposite also knows that our respective offices have been in touch about this issue frequently since the incident took place. There is an active investigation looking at the causes going on right now. Health and safety and prevention are the number one priorities of this government, and we are working very hard, Speaker, in consultation with all our partners from industry to building trades in implementing the recommendations of the expert panel. There will be some very good news coming forward in terms of all the prior recommendations and the recommendations that were outlined by the Dean panel.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Catherine Fife: Again to the Minister of Labour: On December 16, 2010, then-Minister Fonseca wholeheartedly embraced the Health and Safety Expert Advisory Panel’s recommendation that a heights training regulation be in force by December 2011. That’s nearly two years ago, Minister, not two years from now.

Last Thursday it was reported that a h