VOL. 3 NC. 92 PRELIMINARY e UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PERIOD: 3:00 p.m. - 6:00 p.m. MONDAY, NOVEMBER 30, 1981

Noverrr 30 ,1981 ape No. 353 ari- The House met at 3:00 D.m. ::r. Speaker Cl :19. (simms): Order, please With respect to the point of riviiege raised on Friday by the hon. the member for Carbonear (Mr.Moores), I have given a great deal of consideration to thic matter and I thank the hon. member first of all for presenting a number of references in Beauchesne's Fourth Edition in making his case. I have considered these references along with more current references in Beauchesne's Fifth Edition,mostly all of

chapter two dealing with privilege. In addition I have researched a number of precedent rulings in our House as well as in the House Commons,which are the pertinent references I must use when our own Standing Orders do not offer guidance and in this case they do not. And I offer as an example a ruling found in Hansard, December 17,1975 when the Speaker ruledand I quote, 'Members rise on a point of privilege basically in two ways.One, a technical, precis.ly defined matter of privilege, allegation of breach of privilege.

And secondly,members rise on a point of privilege in order to make an explanation or comment or clarification on a matter relating to what they may have said themselves in the House or what somebody else may have interpreted the remarks to have been." It goes on to say,. "When both hon. members this afternoon spoke they got the floor by rising on a point of privilege and then made their explanations or remarks or comments with reference to things said and relating to what they, each of them had earlier said in the House but there was not a point of privilege.

In addition the House of Commons has consistently ruled on matters of this nature,i.e., inaccuracy of press reports, etc., that members can •1 17

November 30,1981 Tape MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : express a view or complaint, Chafr take no forward action and in any event such action should not be necessary to send a messace such a abort distance away.' And no doubt they, the press gallery,could hardly help but get the message. That was the gist of a ruling March 10,1978, House of Commons debate and I draw hon. member's attention to that as well.

In this particular case I have also analyzed the transcript of the member's speech as well as the trancript of the CBC story which was provided to me at my request on Friday and which was,incidentially, a thirty-seven second story. In reading both there appears to be a clear misunderstanding with respect to the use of the term,"the Halfway House Motel," and then later in the hon. member's speech where he says, "1 walked out of the Halfway House,." between that and the CBC report which usedthe term "aHalfway House." And it can probably be seen,therefore,how tlis could have been confused.

I am also advised that CBC have since issued a public apology for misinterpreting the hon. member's words. Thus having researched the matter and having referred to a number of precedent rulings both here and in the House of Commons,I would have to be consistent and say that in my opinion it falls into the same category of those precedents where the hon.member has taken the fl 1 1 Rfl

November 30, 1981 Taoe No. 3856 HO-i U MR. SPEAKER (SIMMS) opportunity to clarify remarks reoorted by the tress. This has happened on numerous occasions in the Past and, certainly, having had the opportunity now for a number, ef days to consider t1iisatter thoroughly and seriously, I cannot see where this case conforms to the conditions that are necessary in order for me to allow tho matter to be given precedence over all other business of the House.

The hon. member may certainly have had a grievance or complaint and he has expressed that, but I would have to rule - and this is the Speaker's responsibility, as outlined in Beauchesne's Fifth Edition, paragraph 80, subsection 3 - that he does not have a prima facie case of privilege in this matter. OPAL QUEST:ONS MR. SPEAKER: The ton. Leader of the Opposition. MR.. STIRLING: Mr. Speaker: althouah the government refuses to give any answers on the depression that we are now facing except the Premier's admission, Mr. Speaker, the question that I have has to do with misleading propaganda - MR.

PATTERSON: That is the meaning of propaganda. all propaganda is misleading. SOME HON. MEMBERS: No, no MR. STIRLING: -and we now have the first of the news media who have recognized that and they have in a front page item indicated that the Premier's Office sent them an ad which the staff of that paper considered to be misleading and they refused the ad. The question I have for the Premier is, Was he aware of the ad, was it in fact requested through the Premier's Office and what was the amount of money budgeted by the Premier's Office for the people to spend on this ad, and has he personally approved of the ad?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition will have to provide me with some more information 1 1 RI

November 30, 1901 Tape 3856 EC - 2 PREMIER PECKFOP.D: on what he is talking about. Es mas made a few aeneral ccmtmants reamc to the economy and then he went on to talk about matters dealing with an ad. If the Loader of the Opposition would li:za to provide me with the name of the paper and so on, I would only be too happy to investigate it and provide the information to the hon. member. MR. SPEAKER (Simms) The hon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR._STIRLING: At the request of the Premier, since he obviously did not hear me say it was the Muse - Memorial University, the Muse.

PREMIER PECKFOP.D: I did not hear you say the Muse. MR. STIRLING: The request was made of the Premier by the Premier's Office and they said, because of the Premier's apparent desire to hide something, the Premier's Office requested space in the Muse for a full page advertisement. The staff of this Paper, after much deliberation, decided on Monday to refuse the ad. We could not in good conscience allow this paper to be a vehicle for what we consider misleading propaganda directed at students.' And the question I have 1 L 1

0ovember 30, 193 Tape No. 3357 D - 1 NT. STITTTNG: to ask the Premier since he ncw knows it is the Muse and his office did provide ohs full a;e ad, waS the Premier aware of the advertisement, does he aocrove this kind of misleading advertising being sent out by his office? • MR. SPEAKER (Sioms): The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, a couple of weeks ago when we were involved in the debate over the Esteblished Proqramme Funding and the cutbacks that Mr.

MacEachen announced in his budget,both in his prose presentatior in the budget and in the tables which were provided,which have been verified by all the provinces and by all the economists who looked at it that we solicited or requested space in several papers, I think some pf the information appeared in the St.

Johns Daily News and in the Evening Telegram, and I would assume therefore that we requested space in the Muse in the same way as we requested space in the Evening Telegram and the Daily News so that we could also inform those students who were attending a post-secondary institution of the government's position on this matter and to present the facts as we saw them and as we continue to see them.

So I will take the matter and just check it out,But obviouslyif the staff of the Muse have indicated this in their paper, we obviously requested space in their paper as well as requesting space in the Daily News and the Evening Telegram. • MR._STIRLING: Suplementarv, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Supplementary, the hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. STISLING: Could the Premier tell us whether or not that political propaganda was paid for by the Government of Newfoundland in the case of the Daily News and the Evening Telegram?

Was that paid for by the Government of Newfoundland or was it paid for by the PC Party? 1 [ 1 R

November 30, 1981 Tape No. 3857 SD - 2 MR. SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKF'OPD: Mr. Speaker, it was paid for by the Government of Newfoundland and the government viii continue to pay for ads which have to do with the government's business and to do with Presenting the facts to the peorle of this Province. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. PREMIER PECKFOFD: It is unfortunate that while I presented some information to 600 or 700 students at the university a couple of weeks ago, the Leader of the Opposition (ML.

Stirling) presented certain information to thirty or forty students a week later, and we wanted to follow through and follow up on that information which we had provided to the students. And the government will continue, as most governments do, to present their point of view and I am sure Newfoundi.anders generally would like to know just what- the impact of federal budgets are upon the budget of this Province. And I consider that to be a legitimate expense that will be incurred from time to time by the government. MR. STIRLING: Supolementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Supolenentary, the hon.

Leader of the Opposition. MR. STIRLING: The Premier is saying then that he has now adopted a policy that when he loses a debate in this House of Assembly or through the ordinary news media that what he will do is that he will then use the power of the 1 '; 1

November 30, 181 Tape NO. 3858 EL-i psopie of this Province, to use their ta::payers' dollars at the same time that you are telling fishermen that you cannot do anything about opening up the fish plants, that people who are unemployedcannet get jobs are moving away to Alberta, that you are going to srend the taxpayers money of this Province for political propaganda, and

interpretation by a political party. Would the Premier tell us how much he has budgeted for this kind of political propaganda to be paid for by toe taxpayers of this Province? MR. SPEAKER (SIMMS): The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, three or four ques- tions in that statement by the Leader of the Opposition. First of all, when it conies to losing a debate, I will let the people of Newfoundland decide who won or lost the debate. SOME HON. MEMBERS: No, you will not. MR. PECEFORD: Mr.

Speaker, at the university there are over six or seven hundred people who attended my address and there were thirty or forty who attended the Leader of the Opposition's. Now, I do not know - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear PREMIER PECKFORD: - what the win or loss is on that. I mean, if the Leader of the Opposition is touchy about that he will just have to improve his image. And I would sugg- est to him that his line of questioning is going to have to change if he wants to do that.

Secondly, as it relates to fish plants closing down, I do not know what that has to do with the government buying a half page or a page in a news- paper in this Province. It just so happens that we do not own the fish plants in this Province and we have about twenty oz thirty per cent say in the fishery of this Province,and given that, it makes it rather difficult for the government to be able to solve every fish plant problem that is here. I will say this, though, Mr. Speaker. We are doing a fair job in trying to solve it and we are in there head over heels 1 } 1 A

November 30, 1961 Tape No. 3323 tL - 2 _ in trying to soive it an.. have successfully solved some or tne problems in the oirsnore f:rhery and we are trying to solve the rest of them. An it * might he not too long before the Leader of the Opposition might have to eat his words on that score as he has had to do on rnany others. as he has had to do on the constitution, as he has had to do on the offshore, as he has had to ao on the hyrdo transmission. He will have to do the same thing on the fishery.

The policy of this government, as it is of most governmentr;,is that from time to time there is information that should be disseminated tr the people of this Province and will use this House of Assembly and we will use other means to do it. This is legitimate government ex- pense and we intend to use it in the future, Mr.Speakar. SOME HON. MEMBEFS: Hear, hear MR.LUSH: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Sirrjns) : The hon. member for Terra Nova. MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Education (Ms.Vege),but since she is not in her place then I will ask the Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins) .

In the Budaet highlights of 1981, the Dinister told hon. members that a total of $37 million is provided in capital grants for the building and eqvippincof schoo1s I wonder if the minister could indicate to the House whether that means that $37 million was allocated for the fiscal year for the actual building of new schools and the equipping of new schools? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance. DR COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, there are ongoing

ovember 30, 1981 Tape No. 3858 EL - 3 R. CLL obligations of the SCIlOOj bcad in regara on scncoJ consturczoon. In otrier words, a articuia may undertake

Nov. 30, 1931 Tape No. 3839 DN - I DR. 5. T'37,TNS: a ronstruction they made from that over a aerio of time so that all the costs of that particular caoital works may not be into one year and some of that amount did take care of ongoing obligations. MR. T. LUSH: • supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Sirruas) • supplementary, the hon. member for Terra Nova. MR. T. LUSH Now that the Minister of Education (Ms. Verge) is in her place, Mr. Speaker, I will direct the question to her.

It seems as though from the statement by the minister that not all of the $37 million went into capital grants for the building and equipping of new schools in the year•-+9-81. So I will ask the minister: can the minister indicate to the House precisely just what amount of the $37 million went into capital grants for the building and the equipping of schools in this fiscal year 1981? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Education. MS. VERGE: Yes, Mr. Speaker.

As I have said in this House of Assembly as well as in the Estimates Committee hearing and to the media on a number of occasions in the present fiscal year of the $37 million total supplied by the Department of Education for school construction$15.8 million were supplied to the Denominational Education Committees for new construction, for future construction. Now that $15.8 million has already been committed by the denominational committees for new con- struction projects,sorne of which are already underway and others of which will be completed over the next number of months.

That $15.8 can be further broken down into two parts; $10.8 million for ongoing construction needs and $5 million for high school related needs. The $5 million being the first in three parts of a high school construction programme to prepare for the ex- panded high school programme. That $15.8 million total repre- 101 F

1901 T1e '5° DN - 2 -IS. 7RGE: sents government's critcn to ne school construction.For every construction project, :i-io jvif:l school boarf is resmomsible fr minimum of 10 per cent of the cost of construction. So that $15.8 miilion given by government to the Denominational Educarion Committees and allocated through the DECs is coupled with, in the case of each individual project, a minimum of 10 per cent contribution from the individual school board.

The balance of the $37 million which is about - I am slow at arithmetic - is about $21 million,is applied by government to retiring dbt with respect to existing school buildings, previous con- structions. And government over the last year or so took over the debt of the Denominational Education Com- mittees and in that way took away a considerable burden on the DECs which had become impossible for [11 A 0

November 30 981 Tame No. 3360 1,71•1 - 1 MS. VERGE: nac nurcn with risincT interest rates. MR. LUSH: A supolementarv, Mr. Speaker MR. SPEAKER (Simms) A suDolementary, the hon. member for Terra Nova. MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, what we haTe is out of a total of $37 million that gave the impression that they were being spent for building and equipping of new schcolsreally it is only 30 per cent, it is only 30 per cent of that figure that went into building and equipping of new schools.

In that same statement the budget goes on to say that the government would be cranting $20,300,000 to provide facilities for the reorganized high school programme. No doubt the government did this after a lot of study and a lot of projections as to what the cost would be so over the three year period then they came up with $20,300,000 to provide facilities for the reorganized high school programme. Can the minister indicate whether since that time studies have shown that this might not be sufficient funds to bring in the reorganized high school programme? MR. ,SPEKER: The bce. Minister of Education. MS.

VERGE: Mr. Speaker, I have to correct the inference from the member for Terra Nova's question that there was some attempt to distort the amount of furding government has supplied for new school construction this year. The figure which he cites appears in the estimates, it was thoroughly discussed and analyzed by the Estimates Committee, it has been repeatedly said by me and others publicly, through the media, in the House of Assembly, that that amount represents in part retirement of debt for past construction. And the government 1 1 Qn Lj

Ncvarber 30, 1991 'V,-' - MS. VERGE: is proud of its record of Past school cotrutioo. SOME HON. MENBERS: Hear, har. 15. VERGE: Since the Progressive Conservative Party has been in power in this Province there has been something like $200 million spent on new school construction. SOME HON. MENBERS: Hear, hear'. MS.

VERGE: As for the $20.3 million prograrmne over three years for high school related construction, $5 million of which was supplied in this year's budget with $15.3 to follow over the next two years, the review, which is ongoing, indicates that that is pretty cLose to what will be recuired to take care of the needs. This figure was arrived at by officials of the Department of Education who conducted a survey of existing buildings, of existing high school facilities, looked at projected enrollment figures, talked with school board officials, the Federation of School Boards, the denominational education committees.

Now that dialogue is ongoing and there are specific school boards who say that they need more for this, that or the other thing. But what we are talking about is precisely those needs which result from the expansion of the high school programme, not a gymnasium that was needed all the time anyway for Grade XI, Grade X, and the lower grades, but needs which are directly resulting from the expansion of the high school programme and the addition of Grade XII I And when you narrow the survey to precisely those needs, 4 1 U 1 q 1

Novemho_ :, :::: 3361 - MSVfRGE: it can be shown that the $20.3 mIllion prcorarm•s over three years will.adequately take care of those additional aeeds. we are committed to providino other fundino for ongoing needs. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. LUSH: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKEP (Simme): Order, please! Before I recognize the hon. member for a further supplementary, I would normally have interrupted the hon. the minsta and asked her to keep her answers a littJ.e bit briefer, but the Bon. the memberor. Terra Nova seemed to he sincerely interested in getting answers so I did not interrupt.

I would bring that to the attention of hon. members. A supplementary, the hon. the member for Terra Nova. MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, I have let the minister go because it shows that she is not in touch at all with what is happening in education and does not know the grave danger that the high school programme is experiencing. Mr. Speaker, on the weekend one of the superintendents of the larger boards in this Province indicated that $20.3 million was not nearly enough to bring in the new reorganized high school programme, that indeed he was throwing out a figure of $50 million. Mr.

Speaker, there is a large difference in $20.3 million and $50 million. So in view of that 4 statement, in view of the statement by one of the surer- ir.tendents of on of the larger school boards in this Province saying that the Province needed $50 million, I am wondering how the minister now feels about the allocation of this $20.3 million to provide facilities 1 i 1

q) November 30, 1981 Tape 3861 EC - 2 LUSH: for the reorgacize programme in this Province over the next three years? NP.. SPAKER (Simcm) : The hon. the •1inister of Education. S VERGE: Mr. Speaker, officials of the department have had ongoing contact with that particular school board superintendent I believe you were referring to the suaérintendent of th Exploits school board based in Grand Falls - as well as the other superintendents in the Province.

Now, in that particular case - and this illustrates what I was referring to earlier - I think you will find that that superintendent is looking for a whole new school, which I am sure he makes a good case for, but most of the cost of that sought for facility is not directly attributable to Grade XII or to the high school expansion it was a need which would have existed in any case and will be met with funding that will he supplied over the next couple of years for ongoing construction requirements.

The $20.3 million programme over three years, $5 million supplied this present year, is for precise1y those needs resulting from the reorganized high school programme and Grade XII. There will be additional fundllncj supplied for other construction requirements. MR. NEARY: Mr- Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for LaPoile. L MR. LUSH: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. NEARY: I yield, Mr. Speaker. I ML. SPEAKER: The hon. member yields. The hon. the member for TerraVlova. MR. LUSH: Mr.

Speaker, the minister mentions that this particular superintendent was concerned because he is looking for a new high school. Mr. Speaker, also 1L 1

November 30, 1981 Tape 3861 EC - 3 in the raper over the wc was anoiIer superintendent looking for five schools, and, Mr. Speaker, I can nane other superintendents who are looking for schools. I do not expect there is a Superintendent of Education in this Province not looking for a high school. The question is, Mr. Speaker, in view of the fact that school boards are beginning to flex their muscles 1 L 1

November 30, 1981, Tape 3862, Page 1 -- apb MR. LUSH: and have indicatlr that this $20.3 million is insuffieint to bring in the high school pzogranime in a manner that is in keeping with the government's requirements and prerequisices, can the minister assure hon. members,and the people of this Province who are rather concerned, that this $20.3 million is sufficient to bring in the reorganized high school programme and that there will be no delays in bringing in this programme because of a lack of funds? MR. S?EAKER(Simnis): The hon. the Minister of Education. MS.

VERGE: Yes, Mr, Speaker, I take pleasure in assuring everyone, even the doubters and the cvnics,that Grade XII will be brought in on

schedule and it will be worthwhile, and it will result in improvements in education opportunities for our young peop 1 a. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for LaPoile. MR. NEAP.Y: Mr. Speaker, I would just like to follow through with a supplementary concerning some of the questions asked by my colleague. I would like to ask the hon. the Minister of Education (Ms.Verge) if Newfoundland and Labrador is the only Province left in Canada where we have public examinations? What will happen in the expanded high school system? Will there be public examinations for Grade XII?

Will we continue with the shared evaluation system as now in Grade XI or will Newfoundland join with the rest of Canada in doing away with public examinations altogether? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education. 1 1

November 30, 1981, Tape 3862, Page 2 -- apb Speaker, Newfoundland and Labrador will continue Co be a leader in Canada in evaluating our high school students. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, heart MS. VERGE: As the member for LaPoile (Mr. Nenrv) has said, we now have a system of shared evaluation for Grade XI students through which half their final mark is determined by their own teachers in their schools based on their years work; the other half of the mark is determined by public exams, set and ad'oinistered Province-wide by the Department of Education, to ensure a measure of consisteocyacross the Province.

That same system of shared evaluation will be continued when the reorganized high school programme is fully implemented with respect to level three courses. In the expanded high school programme , courses are no longer linked to grades, but there are levels of courses given through the three years of senior high school. And with respect to the level three courses, there will be shared evaluation with public exams determining half of the final mark. AN HON. MEMBER: Good move Oo'd nove MR. NEARY: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPLAKER(Sirnrns): A supplementary, the hon. the member for LaPoile.

MR._NEARY: I just want to ask the hon. gentleman a quickie on this, Mr. Speaker, Is the hon. - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Gentleman? MR. NEARY: The hon. minister looks a kind of pale today, she must have heard I was in her district over the weekend, Mr. Speaker. She mu't have had a hard - MR. MORGAN: You are heating your head against a stone wall. 1 1 q R

November j 1j, ii, Tape -e J -- apo NP. PY While T 7T on my feet, Mr. 1 ----. -.- iiter of Nunicipal Afairs(Mrs. Newnook)? iS not Jaroua, it is not a C.iscmas coNe, 1 1 q 7

Noverr.uer 3C,Li io. MR.NEARY: it is a present or a gift from the to:m cf Isle aur Morts. They Te to me to deliver to the hop.. .oinister tf comrrcrate nor officici. a couple of weeks aao to the town of Isle aux Morts. MR. SPEAKER (Sirnms): Order, please! I want to insure that there is no precedent set here in that this is not an exhibit or anything of that nature. It is simply a package being dc1ivred to the hon. minister. Maybe you cculd bring it out to her office. MR. NEARY: It is a plaque, Mr.

Speaker, presented to the minister by the community of Isle aux Morts, it was given to me to deliver, to commemorate her visit to the community of Isle aux Mortes a few weeks ago. The minister can reply later. This is Question Period. SOME aON.MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. NEARY: I want, to get back to the Minister of Education. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!' The hon. member for LaPoile has a question.

MR._NEARY: I want to ask the Minister of Education (Ms Verge) if in her .nswer she means that instead of writing public examinations now in Grade Xl that Grade XL will be stretched out to twelve years instead of eleven years,and that public examinations under the shared - AN HON.MENBER: (inaudible) ] MR. NEARY: No, we will have - what students now have been taught in eleven years they will now be taught in twelve years with the odd change in the curriculum. MR. MORGAN: Say it again. MR. PATTERSON: He is having difficulty remembering. 1 1 Cj p

No'eober 30,1981 Tape No. 3863 ah-2 M•_______ No, I am not havinc difficulty. Tho non. Minister . Mortan difficulty. 8?ThMR_(3i:.t, Order, please! it tas twelve years for Grade XI? MR. NERY: That is rioht. I] MR. SPEAKER (Simnis) : Order, pleasel MR. NEARY: In Ontario they have Grade Xlll. MR. PATTERSON: They are going to give that up though, are they not? MR. NEOY: No, they are not going to rive it up. MR. HISCOCK: Look at the universities and the trade sch1s and the Fisheries College. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, will the students in Newfoundland schools be doing in twelve years what they are now doing in eleven years? And at the end of the twelve years will they have to write, sit for a public examination which will make us the only province in Canada who does it, under the shared evaluation system? Is that what the hon. minister is saying? MR.SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Education. MS VERGE: Mr. Speaker, the member for LaPoile (Mr.Neary) seems tc have missed the point of the whole exercise of revising the senior high school program. MR.BTJTT: Hear, hear!

MS VERGE: It has been widely discussed for the past two years and,to synopsize in a minute,the point of the exercise is to expand the time for high schools with another year so that over the high school experience students will be required to study a broader range of 1 i q

November 30,1981 Tape No. 3863 ah-3 MS VERGE: subjects. They will do more 0 greater vority of sub3ects in the high school proaramme of tet the change than before the chang. The publoc exams will be given to students taking level three courses who may be in Grade Xll or may he in Grade Xl or in some cases could be in Grade Xaad will continue to be part of the shared evaluation. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): A final supplementary. The hon. member for LaPoile. 1 1: P V

Nove-hpr 30. 1981 Tame No. 3864 SD - 1 MR. NEAR?: The boo. miniscer has now added another little bit of confusion. The hon. minister said that the shared e'aivation system oublic examinations may be given at level three in Grade X, Xl, Xli. Is that what the hon. minister jot said? MR. SPEAKER(Sirt-jrs): The hon Minister of Education. MS. VERGE: Yes, Mr. Speakers Courses under the revised high school prograrnme,and the change is underway at the Grade X level throughout our Province now, those courses are no longei: tied to grades.

For example, thera will no longer be a course in history which is the Grade X history course; there may be a level one course in Canadian History, a level two course in World History, a level three course in Canadian History, the levels heving to do with the degree of skill and knowledge required for mastery of the subject material, the amount of subject material. MR. NERY: In what other part of Canada is that being done? MS. VERGE: That kind of flexible arrangement is used now in high school programmes in a number of other provinces with success.

And it is particularly auvantageous to our Province of small schools in giving to the administration of a Echool more flexibility in scheduling so that over a period of a three year high school programme, by staggering course offerings and by doubling up grades or classes studying the same course , a wider selection of courses may be made available to the high school population. MR. CALLAN: Mr. Speaker. ER. NEARY: Suoplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Bellevue. MR. CALLAN: I yield, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: He yields. The hon. member for LaPoile. 1 1-;

November 30, 1981 Tape No. 3864 SD - 2 MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaier, would the don. manascr tell tIie House where in Canada the system that she just sPelled out tor the House, what other Dart of Canada are using that Sr stem? My under standing is that the shared evaluation system in the other nine rrovinces of Canada did not work so they did away with it. It is either the school decides 100 per cent of the marks or they go back to public examinations. But here in this Province we seem to be developano a system which is unigle to the rest of Canada.

Could the hon. minister tell us, point to some other part of Canada where the system that she just outlined his been used? MR. SPEAKER (3imins): The hon. Minister of Education. MS. VERGE: Mr. Speaker, I think the hon. member for T,aPoile (Mr. Neary) is confusing two concepts. One is evaluation,and the otherwhich I was talking about,is the credit system where courses are no longer locked into grades. Dealing with his guestaor 1

November 30, 1931 Tane Yo. 3965 EL - 1 'IS. V2l: on evaluation, i is my Ui scana oiac a•. . iai ano Lab;edors avetem of shared evaluation in which the public cyam is contaued to determine half the students final marks is the envy of many other provinces who, yes, cad drc thac system ad nov reqret that they drooped it.

SOME HON. 1EMBERS: Hear, hear The aharod evaluation system offers a blend of evauation within the schools by teachers who are seasibive to the student's personality, who were present to witness the student's performance throughaut the year, who appreciate the student's work habits and have per- haps a greater overall knowledge of the student's ability and performance. But on the other hand, it also allows some ob- jectivity through external exams and - MR. NEAFY: Where else as it being used? MR. SPEAKER (Simma) : Order, please MS. VERGE: - insurance of consistency across the Province. MR.

SPEAKER: The time for Oral Questions has epired. I know hon. members will want to join me in extending a welcome to a former minister of the Crown, a former member of this hon. House who is seated in the gallery today, Mr. Harold Collins. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! NPS.EHCOK: Mr. Speaker. May I ask leave of this hon. House to respond to the hon. mertther for LaPoile (Mr. Neary)? MR. SPEAKER: Such a request would require the unanimous consent. SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave. MR. SPEAKER: By leave? There is consent. The hon. Mirister of Municipal Affairs. 1 fl 21; 2

Nov.h'- O. 192 1 TCDe No. 38 EL - MRSNE"FiOOK: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I do thank the hon. tether for LaPoile (Mr. for this to':sn appreciation And I would liko to ask hi:r if it is :ust a plaque, because if it is a gift I cannot accept of the ulie1ines to iinisters that cannot accet rifos SOME HON MEMBRS: Hear, hear HP.. SPEAKER(Sirnms) : is there leave for toe boo. neither for LaPoile to res:cr.d? SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please: There is leave. Thehcn. manlier for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, I do not know what is in the box because I have not seen it, I did not open it, I do not open people's nail like the Premier's Office does. it was given to me and I was askad to deliver this plaque to the minister. I understand it as a plaque,because the community of Isle aux Mort is noted for giving visitors, people who sign their guestbookplaques. AIN NON. MEMBER: They gave it to the MHA to give her a plaque. MR. PATTERSON: When are you going to get yours? MR. NFAR: Mr.. Speaker, as I understand it, this is a plaque given the minister 1 H 71;

_4_# V C ...#_' S._#V._.._ - ._ _. - _# • ._# # - - - - P. ::E?.Ry: ro han cr nr sll ncr first visit to the Town of Isle aux iortS. so HON. hear, 'near: MR. SPEAKER inms) : Order, please'. MRS. NEWHOOK: I shall express m' appreciation to the - MR. SPEAKER: Ordar, please: There will have to be leave again. This could go on forever. MRS. NEWHOOK: I am sorry. MR. SPEAKER: Is there leave? MR. MORGAN: There is a love affair going here. MR. SPEAKER: If the hon. minister wishes. Okay. PRESENTINGPETITIONS: MR.SPEAKER: The hon. member for Eagle River. MR.HISCOCK: Mr.

Speaker, I rise to present a petition in this House from the residents of Paradise River to Cartwright, approximately 3,000 people, almost half my district. They are rather concerned about the housing situation in that district. And as a result of that the federai government, Canada Centraa M-rtgage and Housing has designated thaarea as c REAP pixx4rams, and it has 'een close to two years that it has taken us to straighten out the problem with Newfoundland and Labrador Housing, wi'10 became the delivery agents for them. The federal government pays Newfoundland and Labrador Housing $450 to process one application.

Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corporation said they could not deliver that on the South and East Coast of Labrador but they would have to charge $850. As a result of that the federal aovernment has agreed to it, Newfoundland and Labrador Housing has now agreed to become delivery ager.ts even though it is S850 for each application. But my concern is, Mr. Speaker, now that it has gone into our own responsibility, 1 i] 2

:c'er 30, i Tame No. NM - 2 MR. HISCOCK: is that we have offices set up in the communities of Mary's Harbour to look after Fo Hrbour and Lodme Bay, one in Port Pore Simrsor to look after Port Hope Simpson, Charlottetown Williams Harbour, and Pinsents Arm, and one in Cartwright to look after Black Tickle and Paradise River. If that is done the programme will be extremely successful like it has beenon the lower part of the Coast where over 400 houses are repaired under this programme.

The Premier, I believe it was Thursday, got up and tabled a letter to the Prime Minister basicly saying do something for housing, low mortgages, and lower them and that. Here we have an example that we can help a lot of the people, 300 or 400 houses can be rehabilitated under this programme, instead of getting into larger ones and newer houses And if our Premier is serious about his concerns and it was not 3ust a political letter that was sent to the Prime Minister for political points, then he will inform - MR. MARSHALL: A point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAXER: A point of order has been raised by the hon. the President tf the Council. MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker I refer you to Standing Order 92. °verv member offering a petition to the House shall confine himself to the statement of the parties from whom it comes, the numbers of sianatures attached to it and the material allegations it contains. In no case shall such member occupy more than five minutes. The hoe. gentleman, I '1

30, 1981 Tame Mo. 3967 PM - 1 M. MP.SHAL1: Mr. Speaker., is enterina into dsbate. He says he had a petition. I have not yet teao the numbers of people there and, he certainly has not given the material statement in the petition itself or addressed himself to it. Instead he seems to be wandering all over the piece in a general debate as to an alleged position taken by the Premier and other members of the government. MR. J. HCDDER: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (SLams) : To the point of order? MR. J. HCDDER: To the point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: To the point of order, the hon. member for Port au Port. MR. J.

HCDDER: Mr. Speaker, I do not know if Your Honour can really rule that the member is not being material or confining himself to the statement of the parties from which it comes since the member has not got to the material part of the petition yet. He was making a few comments, Mr. Speaker, to introduce the petition. MR. SPEAKER: Well, I do not wish to use up the hon. members time in making a ruling. The rules are quite clear; the hon. member shouLi not be entering into debate but should confine himself to the statement of the parties of the petition. The hon. member for Eagle River. MR. E. HISOOCK: Mr.

Speaker, there are over 3,000 people, I said, in the district.I presented at least ten of them last year and we still did not have it straightened out. The point that I am trying to get out is that we need these three local areas. The Premier wrote a letter to the Prime Minister saying,'Do something about housing1' Now we have done it,the federal government has given the Province $850 to process each application. 197r;7

ME. ISCOCE: And horefully, Mr. Smeaker, I am imoressir 00cr the miristera here cc coer these offices. SOME MON. EMBERS: Oh, oh: MR. W. MARSHALL: A point of order, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh MR.SPEAKER(Sirnms): Order, please: Order, please A point cf order has been raised by the hoit. the President of the Council. MR. W. MARSHALL: My understanding, Your Honour, is that lour Honour has given a ruling as tc the matter that the hon. cientleman has brought up and directed him to comply with the Standing Order, to make a statement of the material allegation in the petition and address himself to it .

In- stead the hon. gentleman seems to be wandering in a morass of debate. MR. SPEAKR: I bring it to the attention of the hon. member again. He has ten seconds to try to con- fine himself to the remarks of the petition, whatever they are. The hon. member for Eagle River. MR E. HISCOCE: Mr. Bpeaker, I .ploce this r't 4- on to this House and ask the government to take Seriouly the pleas of these people. We have some of the worst housing in the country and hopefully we will have these three local offices opened up in Cartwright, Mary's Harbour and Port Hope Simpson. p Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAKER: Any further petitions? MR.L. STIRLING: To the petition, Mr. Speaker. MR. 5PEAKER: To the peitition, the hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. L. STIRLING: I supoort the petition, Mr. Speaker, so ably presented despite 1 7 P

November 30, 1981, Tape 3868, Page 1 -- apo MR. STIRLING: okle interrupoions by the Presotoot of the Council ::arsrdil), Mr. Speaker. - And I can under oG ihy he would interrupt and I have no doubt that he will interrupt me. What we are dealing with is the request of a group of people looking for hcusing, a request from a group of people on the coast of Labrador who are far removed from St. John's East and far removed from the arrogance of this government, far removed from a qovernment that has to buy ad'iertisemeots to mislead the people, very far removed, Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAKER(Simms): Order, please Is the hen. the Leader of the OppositionMr. Stirling) now - MR. STIRLING: Dealing with the petition, Mr. Speaker. AN HON. MEMBER: You are out of order again, Mr. Speaker said. MR. SPEAKER: Please: Please: MR. STIRLING: The petitionwhich was so ably presented,dealt with a housing problem and delivery, which is clearly under the responsibility of this government. But they are so sensitive, Mr. Speaker, that they will not allow the latitude to make comments because they do not want to hear it.

We are dealing with a request from people who have a delivery system delivered V to their area; clearly a responsibility of Newfoundland and Labrador Housing to go there and deal with the 4 applications. That is what the petition is all about. But the President of the Council, who is so sensitive that he must protect his leader at all costs, he will be jumping up any minute now on another point of order, Mr. Speaker. 1 2

overnber 33, 1931, Tape 3333, : -- SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear MR. 5TIRLThG: Mr. 3a:eL, on this side of the House we are concerned about pec.pie and about the real concerns in this PrO:±nCe, the or rrrs of the economy, providing jobs and housing, housing as set out in that petition and petitions 2rom all over the Province. Mr.

Speaker, the people of this Province will eventually get their opportunity to tell the government what they think of the arrogant aztitude, and, I suppose, we will look for anotner misleading ad to tell them why it is that the people cannot have the request that they have set out in their peticion. And we will have other petitions, Mr. Speaker, and I have no doubt that there will be an attempt to silence us, but we will not be silenced. 000 MR. STIRLING: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER(Simnis): The hon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR.

STIRLTNG: Just before Orders of the Day - I think we will have consent from the other side once they hear the opening remarks of the motion that I have here, which I think will have unanimous consent - 'That this House recognizes the courage and integrity of the President of the Iron Ore Compnay of Canada, Mr.

Brian Muironey, in speaking out publicly with respect to the inequitable contract between Churchill Falls Labrador Corporation and Hydro Quebec by means of which the Government and the people of this Province are deprived of hundreds of millions of dollars a year in economic rental of the electricity produced at Churchill Falls in Labrador; that this House welcomes his intervention - and it was in 1 [! 21 0

November 36, 1981, Tape 3368, Page 3 -- apb .iR. Sii: a speecu, on November 14 - and expresses the hope that it will help to persuade the Premier and the Government of Quebec to enter into meaningful negotiations 1 i 2 1

Novomber 30. 1981 Tate No. 3 EL - 1 MR. STIRLING: towrfs revising the contract to make it far and equitable to the zeople of Newfoundland and Labrador and to the people of Quebec and tais House commends Mr.:uironey. r. Speaker, I do not think it i any secret that Mr. Muironey is not of the same political norsuasion as this sife of the House but when we have a man who has the courage to speak up in Quebec on behalf of all tha çeople,then I wouid look for the consent of the other side to have this moticn made unanimous and that we encourage Mr.

MuJ.roney and others of his stature to intercede and speak on behaif of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador in getting this inequitable contract changed. M. SIEAKER (Sinuns) : Order, please! Such a motion would require unanimous consent. Is there unanimous consent to present such a motion? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Yes MR. SPEAKER: There is unanimo'is consent. Shall I disoense with the reading of the motion since the hon. the Leader of tne Opposition already has read it? Those in favour ofthe motion signify by saying, aye. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye. MR. SPEAKER: contrary, nay? Carried. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Along the same lines as the hon. gentleman, I wonder if I could hae leave - and I do not have the information with me. I meant to bring it to the House - have leave to get a motion passed here in the House that a letter be written by Your Honour to the Newfoundlanders that participated in the rescue operations of the ship that went aground on Sable Island. I think this was 1 U 2

Noventher 30, 1981 Tape No. 3869 EL - 2 S an ousuanding teat, iir.Speaker, and I do not think it should be ignorec.. I think that the Jouse s:oula raccn1z2 this. I am sorry not have the names with me but perhaps Your Honour could ret the names. I think there as a Newfoundland comrany involved and New- foundlanders were actually directy involved in the rescue, and I think a letter of congratulations should go out from the House. MR. SPEAKER (Simme) : Such a motion would require unanimous consent. Is there unanimous consent to put such a motion? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Yea. MR. SHHER: There is.

Those in f&iour of the motion signify by saying aye. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye; MR. SPEAKER: Contrary, nay. Carried. The 'ayes'have it. It will be done. Second reading of a bill, entitled "An Act To Amend And Revise The Law Providing For Accessibility To Buildings For Physically Disabled Persons". (Bill No. 118) The last day the hon. Minister of Labour and Manpower was closing the debate and he had spoken for approximately five minutes. The hon. Minister of Labour and Manpower. MR. DINN: Yes, Mr.

Speaker, Just to try to answer some of the questions brought up by hon. members opposite,and I will try to do this as quickly as I possibly cane one question was why was the Department of Labour and Manpower now responsible for this act. As hon. members know, in the division of occupational health and safety in the De- partment of Labour and Manpower, we have an engineering and technical services division that have quite a bit of 1 21

Noveraber 30, 1981 Tape No.3869 EL - 3 INN sa ow in the area e inspection. They have expertise, tor example, in administering technical legisThtion, safety codes,.n such areas as elevators, boiler and cressure vessels, refrigeration systems, eiectxical systems, etc., and it was fond that the Department of Labour and Manpower with this expertise would be the department most qualified at this point in time, since it involves not only publicbutprivate dwellirigs,to administer the act and to em- forrie the act when it comes into place.

With respect to the skywaiks at Meriarial University, as hon. members know the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador contributed to these skywalks at the rate 75 per cent, the ?rovincial Government constibutions twelve and e half per cent city, and twelve and a half per cent the university. The government's share was approximately $640,000 and in lieu of providing accessibility or access to these skywalks to the disabledor handicapped students, the Memorial University have agreed to provide a jitney service or bus service for these students to route them throughout the cairpus. 1 21'

Novemrer 3u, i3Oi aja uo - MR. DIN': Now, Mr. Speaker, with respect to the fact that the government should oat more involved with employing handicapped people, the hot. member who introduced thot, I believe, was the member for St. Barbe (Mr. Bennett), he talked about the fact that only four or five such people worked in government service. In doing some research over the weekend,we found that through the Public Service Commiasion and the people who do the hiring for government that we actually have about eighty people on staff with government at this present moment. Sixteen have been hired recently, Mr.

Speaker, in various jobs throughout the public service, a thing I think that we should be proud of, and I think that we should congratulate the Public Service Commission for implementing government policy with respect to handicapped peopie in an attempt to give them employment. I think that is it. Well, there was a criticism of doctors in the Province with respect to doctors sending in the information on a timely basis to the Workers' Compensation Board - no, that relates to another bill, Mr. Speaker. I think I have answered most of the questions of hon. members.

If they have any other questions, of course, they can bring them up in the Committee stage. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear MR. DINN: I move second reading. Thank you very much. On motion, a bill, "An Act To Amend And Revise The Law Providing For Accessibility To Buildings For Physically Disabled Persons," read a second time, crdered referred to a Committee of the Whole House, presently by leave. (Bill No. 118) 1,2

flovertther 30, 1981 Tape 3870 EC - 2 Oder 9, LIII 13. 113. 5 Simms) is moved and seconded that i1l 10. 113 - I am sorry, this is continuing debate, I believe. The hon. the member for Lapoile (Mr. Neary) adjourned the debate the last day and he has spoken for approximately two minutes. MR. NEAAY: That is right. Mr. Speaker; first of all, I want to thank the Government House Leader (Mr.

Marshall) for accommodating me in giving me an opportunity to speak in this debate because, as hon. members will recall, I had some personal business to attend to and I only got an opportunity to speak Eor two minutes on this bill before I left the House. I do want to say this, Mr. Speaker, that I hope that all members on both sides of the House will speak on this bill, because this is a -'ery, very important bill. It is a major change in the Department of Finance and I do not think that it should be treated very lightly by this House.

What the bill is doing, in effect, is dividing the responsibilities of the Deputy Minister of Finance and Comptroller of the Treasury. Hon. members will realize that up to now the Deputy Minister and Comptroller of the Treasury were one and the same, were the same person. Now under this act, the Deputy Minister and the Comptroller of the Treasury will be two separate individuals. The Comptroller of the Treasury will be an entity unto itself and the Deputy Minister of Finance will have his own * responsibilities. Now this change, Mr.

Speaker, was brought about mainly through a recommendation of the Public Accounts Committee. The Public Accounts Committee recommended that this change be made because, Mr. Speaker, 1 2 i P

ovember 30, 1981 Tape 3870 EC- 3 the Deputy of :1.. who was also Comptrolir of the Treasury, could never figure out to which position he owed his loyalty, and as a result, Mr. Speaker, over the last severai years, there has been a tremendous amount of wrongdoing in this Province, skuldugqery, misuse of public funds, abuse * of public funds, and that 1 11 2

V obr 30, 19?l Tape No. 3871 SD - 1 MR. WEARY: briefly is what brought about this chane. Mow once this becones law. Mr. Sreaker, the Conproller of the Treasury will be responsible for the :mp1emertat.icn of the Financial Administration Act. The Comptroller of the Treasury will be one of the watchdogs of the Public Treasury and he will be responsible, directly responsible, to this House.

No longer will the Deputy Minister of Finance an his dual capacity, as Comptroller of the Treasury have to struggle in his own mind as to what is right and what is wrong, as to who enforces the Financial Administration Act and who does not. Mr. Speaker, as a result of the way it was before there are a number of things that happened that really have not been properly dealt with yet. The Public Accounts Committee / in carrying out its investigation before it made this recommendation, came upon all kinds of examples of improper seending in the Departoent of Public Works.

The Auditor Genera.l came across misuse of public funds for advertising in this Province, qovernment advertising and political polls. And one item that will be dealt with in due course in this year's Auditor-Ceneral Report has to do with the rental of office space in downtown St. John's. Mr. Speaker, it is absolutely incredible what happened in the renting of the office space in this building downtown. It is incredible. Back in the Fall of 1918 the governmont of this Province called tenders thr a substantial amount of office space in an office building,new building, in downtown St. John's, in the Pal]. of 1978.

None of the floors were occupied until sonietirne in March or April of the following year, in 1979, The government undertook to make substantial reno:H to that building at public expense, renovations to be paid by government. It is a new buildinp, yet the government undertook to spend, I would say, a couple of million dollars 1fl2 IP

a November 30, 1981 Tape No. 3871 SD - 2 MR. NEARY: or more to renovate the oujiding. But, Mr. Seaker, the iron" of it was that the crovernment undertook the 'renovations of this, building before we had a lease on it. When the tenders closed the successful bidder came in and signed the tender document,which really does not mean anything but no lease was negotiated and the government went ahead and started to occupy the building and spend literally millious of taxpayers dollars to renovate the buldino with no leaae. MR. YOUNG: Not true, not true. MR. NEAR?: That is true. Mr. Speaker, it is true, The Auditor General says it was true. And, 4 Li

November 33,1981 Tape No. iöi. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, we will find, out in due cursa. ir. Spcakr, he ml': thinc that was aimed was the tender document and that is' not a lease, in ae the Mini star of Public Works (Mr. Yonno) thinks it is and he orobably does not know the difference between a tender document and a lease. NR.YOUNG: I know as much about it as you do about (rade XI. R._NaARY: Mr. Speaker, two or three departments of government then started to move in in April of the following year, March and April.

But a whole floor of that building was vacant for almost a year, The gcvernment. even though they were paying for the office spacethe whole floor was vacant for a year. HR. YOUNG: We did not pay a cent. MR. NEARY: They did pay a cent, Mr.Speaker. They did pay for it. A whole floor was vacant,and in the meantime the government is going out renting office space around other parts of St. John's,while a whole floor that they were paying for down in Atlantic Place downtown aas vacant,and it remained vacant for almost a year.

And the lease - remember, Mr.Speaker, the government rented this office space and then moved in and occupied the building over a period of a year or fourteen month-s.-and1 10 and behold, Mr. Speaker, Lhe lease was not signed until 1981, this year. A couple of months ago the lease was finally signed with the owners of that office building. A terrible situation. MR. YOUNG: No, no. MR. NEARY: If the Minister of Public Works (Mr.Young) wants to refute that , if the Minister of Public Works wants to get up on the floor of this House and make a fool of himself, Mr.

Speaker, then I would certainly invite him to do so because to say otherwise would be misleading the House. It would be untrue. The 1 9 9 fl

November 30.1981 Tape No. 3872 ah-2 MR. NEARY: lease was. signed in 1981 , a couple of mon ao. The o:fica spoos was rented in 1978 and the Auditor General brought it to the attention of this House his ennual roport for the 'rar ended March ,1980. h'cw, Mr. Speaker, thor will be properly and thoroughly investigated in due course. And.the minister may be, if my colleagues on the Public Accounts Committee think it is wise to do so, the minister may be sent for and asked to bring the documents. Up to now I understand the minister has refused to provide the lease, refused.

And so in due course this matter will be investigated. But the point I am making, Mr. Speaker, is that as a result of the fine work of the Public Accounts Committee we recommended a change in the Department of Finance that I hope will see that this will never happen again. Because one of the provisions of this Act that we are debating at the present time, before the seal of the Province is affixed to an agreement or to a document 1 22

Nov. 30, 1981 Tape No. 3873 DW - 1 the minister h a s t itor toe itv. If tie minister is not therc,the deoutv has to see it. And so, Mr. Speaker, that will be a bit of an improvement but it is not going to make amenhs,to give the government benefit of the doubt, the inefficien,s1oppy manner in which the rental of this space was negotiated. MR. H. YOUNG: I was not there in 1978. MR. S. NEARY: Listen, Mr. Speaker, listen The minister says, 'I was nct there in 1978', the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) says he was not there in 1978, the President of the Council (Mr.

Marshall) was not there in 1978, the Premier was not there in 1978 but nevertheless they look over at us and say, 'You fellows were with Srtall- wood in 1968 and 1969'. That is different. When it suits them, Mr. Speaker, they throw the dirt at us, but when we identify and associate them with the Moores years they do not want to hear tell of it. They do not want to hear tell of it How often have they mentioned the Moores adminis- tration Mr. Speaker, since they took over? They are ashamed of it They are too ashamed to mention it The minister says he was not there in 1978 Mr. Speaker, the Tories were there in 1978.

MR. TULK: There are a lot of familiar faces over there. MR. S. NEARY: Yes, there are a lot of familiar faces over there who are senior ministers in that Cabinet who negotiated that contract. 1 9 7 •

Nov. 30, 1981 Tape No. 3873 DW - 2 -I 'I MR. S. NEARY: Now, Mr. Speaker, let us hope that will not haopen anymore. But this contract the reotle will have to got the richts of this contract. Now another thing that happened as a occult of the two resoonsibilitans being undet one dePuty minister, Mr. Speaker. It was virtually impossible for that particular deputy minister to determine who was reasonable for collecting the retail sales tax. And, Mr.

Speaker, in the last two editions of the Auditor General's Report for the year ended March 31st., 1979 and the year ended March 31st., 1980 the Auditor General has mentioned, referred to retail sales tax in arrears. In the year ended 1979 reportthe Auditor General tola us that over $10 mil- lion was outstanding, in arrears in the retail sales taxi And at the end of March,1980 it had gone up over another million; $11 million was outctanding in retail sales taxi Then, Mr.

Speaker, this govern- rnent comes into the Hüuse and tells the people of this Pro- wince that there is a deficit, a deficit of $10 million and that they are going to have to tighten their belts, they are going to have to cut back, there is going to have to be restraintswi-ien on the .books in the Department of Fi- nance is $10 million outstandirig $10 million in arrears going back two, three, four years in the Deparosent of Finance. And $8 million in mining taxes is owed to this Province as a result of increases in the price of ore that the mining companies are disputing paying royalties on a sudden 1177 -

November 30, 1981 Tape 3874 EC - 1 in the prica iron ore . 38 million in imnng ta, over $11 million in retail sales tax on the books of the Department cf Finance :iat they have not collected, and some of it • will probably not now be collected because the companies, the businesses, are gone bankrupt, they are gone out of business and the amounts will have to be written off. And, Mr. Speaker, while thay are not rollecting this tax, the Minister of Social Services (Mr.

Hickey) is sending out statements to welfare recipients, the people on social assistance in this Province, widows and disabled people, telling them - one I was given over the weekend by a gentleman, a ccnstituent Df mine, who had three kidney transplants back in 1973. And he needed a special diet and the government would not give it to him. His wife went to work to earn a few dollars to get him all of the orange juice that he needed. He rejected two kidneys and he had a third kidney transplant that, thank God, has been functioning ever since and the man has been able to work.

At that time he was the only kidney transplant, I think, in Newfoundland. So his wife got a part-time job so he could get the nourishment that he needed to get him back to good health, -and when he did get nursed back to health, CM gave him a job on the waterfront in Port aux Basques and he has been working there ever since earning a livelihood for his family. But he got an ultimatum from the Minister of Social Services the other day saying that he had to - pay back over $1,000 to the Department of Social Services or he would be taken to court. MR. HICKEY: That has nothing to do with this bill. MR.

NEARY: Yes, it is this bill. And, Mr. Speaker, there are dozens and dozens and hundreds of examples of where the 1J22'

November 30, 1981 Tape 3874 EC - 2 EARY: inister of Social Services (:r. Hickey) is sendang out statements and uiiimatums to we1fae recipients for overlaDring, for over payments ng back as far as twenty years - under the instructions of the minister - while at the same time, his colleague, the Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins) is failing to collect the retail sales tax in this Province, $11 million in arrears. And, Mr. Speaker, this sales tax, by the way, does not belong to these people who collect it.

Under the law of this Province they are compelled to collect that sales tax in trust for the people of this Province. They only hold it in trust for the people, for the Public Treasury, An while the Minister of Social Services is turning the screws on the welfare recipients in this Province, the Minister of Finance is turning a blind eye to the mining companies - that, oh, the Provincial Treasury; $8 million up to March 31st, 1980. Mr. Speaker, I hope that hon. members realize what I am sayir.g. AN HON. MLNBER: You are not getting through. 1 27 ;

P. I am not getti AN HON. NE13ER: Not over there. NR. NEARS: No. I k:.ow. It is like water on a duck's back. They have no feeling at all for people. What I am saying, Mr. Speaker, is that this government,whc are asking the people of this Province to 2xercise a little restraint and belt tightening, who are turnLng the screws on the students, the welfare recipients, the widows and the cripples and the disabled, and the unemployed, and making it difficult for unemployed people to qualify for social assistance with their ninety day waiting period, that they have imposed. on them, while this is all happening, Mr.

Speaker, all members have to do is to pick up the Puditor General's Report for the end of March, 1980, which is the latest report. We will not get another one until the end of March ,l98l, when the House reconvenes next year, if it ever reconvenes. In that report, Mr. Speaker, over $11 million in arrears in retail sales tax. It is incredible. It is astonishing. It is outrageous. MR. MORGAN: Watch your hearth. MR. NEARY: And the minister coming in with his ministerial statement moaning and groaning and asking the people of this Province to tighten their belt. Most of that money, I would submit, Mr.

Speaker, most of it has come from bistros of this Provinces, the cabarets, the cabarets and the night clubs and the bistros. And some of the companies, I would submit, that have contributed heavily to the Tory Party in this Province over the years, walk gingerly with some of these companies, that is what the minister is doing, walking gingerly, walking on egg shalls with some of these companies, afraid he migat offend them. There is no excuse for this, Mr, Speaker, not excuse in this world, for not enforcing the law as far as that retail sales tax is concerned. It 1 J 2 2 c

' - r 3C, l9' T'ime 015 - MR. NEARY: does not btionq to thes nies, these corporations and these businesses. It does not helong to It was collected from the people to be held in trust for the oeople of this Province. And the $8 million owing as of the end of March, and the mining tax tne Same way. I do not know how the minister is going to answer this. I cannot anticipate how he is going to answer it. He has made so many blunders in that department, Mr. Speaker, the only thing that I can see that he might try to do is to bluff his way, out of it. AN HON. MEER: He is good at that. MR.

NEARY: The hon. gentleman is good at that. He might be able to bluff his way out of it. He might get up ano say we did not have the staff or we have stepped up our collections. He might tell us since the Auditor General published his report that a more strenuous attempt is being made to recover this money. I would submit, Mr. Speaker, that that would be a very weak defence. I would suggest to the House that a lot of that money will never be recovered. It will have to be written off. It will have to be written off, Mr. Speaker. Some of these companies are gone into receivership, or into bankruptcy, or closed down.

The bistros and the taverns and the night clubs and the dives and the joints, some of them have lost their licences. MR. MORGAN: I got my taxes paid. MR. NEARY: The hon. gentleman says he has his taxes paid. Well I hope the hon. gentleman - MR. MORGAN: Every month on the dot. MR. NEARY: —I hope the hon. gentleman is a good corporate citizen. Because the hon. gentleman knows as well as the Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins) , that that money that is

T"e No. 38 -7r qn - 1 MR. NEARY: collected in retail sales tax is not his, does non belong to the owners of thast divas - SIIRLING: And joints. M. NEARY: - and joints and discos and carbarets, dnes not belong to him, it belongs to the peoPle of this Province. Over $11 million in accounts receivab].eb No wonder the Auditor General is frustrated and confused and bewildered. Mr. Speaker, there is no excuse for it, there is no excuse for the government not having the ntining tax up to date, up to date - that is as far as you can get it.

And I am talking about retail sales tax and mining tax that goes back three, four years, two years. That is what the Auditor eneral is talking about. It is anab- solute disgrace while students are being asked to tighten their belts, welfare cecipients are getting the gears put to them by this oovernrsent for overpayments going back as much as twenty years, unemployed are being forced into misery and suffering because of that 90-day waiting period, because of that ninety days YOU have to wait beDause of your earnings in the last three months. And I ask a question of the Minister of Fisheries (Mr.

Morgan) that I asked in this Mouse before, did these men and women who are economically marooned, uneroloyed through no fault of their own, did they know that the carpet was going to be whipped out from under their feet rather suddenly? Did they know that? AN HON. MBER: No. MR. NEARY: No, they did not. If they did they might have saved for a rainy day, but they were led to believe by this government that they had security. - AN HON. MEMBER: They were not even told. They did not know what to expect. MR. NEARY That is right. And now they have to wait. They did not save anything.

In this inflationary period that we are in they are lucky to be able to make ends meet and pay their rent and pay their mortgages and buy food 1 J 22

November In 199' Tame No. 3876 SD - 2 M. NEARY: and clothes for their children and their transportation brch and forth to wrrh - they were lucky to be able to do that. But now the Minister of Social Services (Mr. Hickey) says no,you have to wait ninety days. Mr. Speaker, the vinister surely knows- he was a welfare officer at one time- surely he knows the hardship and the suffering that that is creating and the havoc in homes in this Province. But the minister was out when I said this while this is happening, the Minister of Finance (Dr.

Collins) has pn his books over $11 million in sales tax that has not been collected and almost $8 million in mining tax on the books as of the 31st of March, 1980. Was the hon. Minister of Social Services aware of that fact? If the government wants money let them go after i, let them go after the retail sales tax. Mr. Speaker, let me repeat, that that money does not belong to these individuals and they cannot argue, they cannot come back to the government and say, 'Well, give us a chance'. They cannot come back and say that.

The money is not theirs to give them a chance, they cannot use money they collected in retail sales tax to keep their business going. They were only holding it in trust for the people of this Province. Now that is just a couple. These are three examples, Mr. Speaker, of what has happened in this Province as a result of the position of Deputy Minister of Finance and the Comptroller of the Treasury being one and the same job. Let us hope that that will change, Mr. Speaker. Isupport the bill.

I want to thank my former colleagues on the Public Acccounts Committee for bringing it to the attention of this * House by recommending it in their annual report to the House. Already we can see the value of the Public Accounts Committee, I hope the government will not 1 J 27

November 30, 1381, Tape 3877, Page 1 -- apb :c:AR: start stonewaliing in the future as a result of chaoes made on the Public Accounts Committee anf cake it difficult for us to get information. AN HON. MEMBER: Oh, they will. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I hope when we send to the Minister of F±nance(Dr. Collins) for information in connection with the retail sales tax, as a result of the Auditor General's comments, that he will instruct his officials to lay out all the information we want just the same as the Minister of Transportation (Mr.

Dawe) will give us the logs of the government air- craft, the use of the King Air. I hope they will not stonewall, Mr. Speaker, or try to impede or obstruct us in the carrying out of our duties and responsibilities to this House and to the people of this Province. I support the bill, Sir, and I look forward to improvements in the Department of Finance in the future. 4R. SPEAKER(Simms): The hon. the Leader of the Opposi tion. MR. STIRLING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I too would like to make a few comments on this bill, or if you would like, to use the opportunity permitted under this bill to make a few comments on a debate that we should be having on the requirements under this act for a full and public disclosure of our revenues, of our expenditures and any variations in the budget. Mr. Speaker, it is probably a very historic day today, because on this day the students of the Province, through the Muse shave shown the way. The student paper was the first paper, and let it be recordec that this was the day on which a newspaper refused a misleading ad from this government.

HR. CARTER: This is not relevant MR. STIRLING: Mr. Speaker, I am dealing

November 30, 1981, Tape 3877, Page 2 -- apb MR. STIRLING: with the financial administration of this Province,and the financial administration of this Province, at this present time, is being covered up - MR. HOUSE: Who is editor of the Muse? Who reads the Muse? MR. STIRLING: I would note with interest the hon. the Minister of Health(Mr. House) saying, 'Who reads the Muse?' MR. HOUSE: No, I never said that, I said, 'Who edits the Muse?' MR. TULK: Yes, you did. MR. STIRLING: You first of all said, 'Who reads the Muse?' MR. HOUSE: No, I did not. MR. STIRLING: Then you said, 'Who edits the Muse?' MR.

SPEAKER(Butt): Order, please! Order, please! MR. TULK: Who reads it? About 25,000 Newfoundlanders. A good superintendent become corrupt. MR. STIRLING: Mr. Speaker, we have seen this government set out a great public relations appeal two years ago. We saw this government, two years ago, set out a new look in government. Somebody was finally going to stand up for Newfoundland, we were finally going to come into our own, we were going to get some dignity. AN HON. MEMBER: Hear, hear! MR. STIRLING: Mr.

Speaker, the difference C between the promises and what we have now seen in the, for example, administration of this Province, financial administration of this Province, is worlds and worlds apart, and we see by this government an attempt, by the use of advertisements, paid advertisements, paid for by the people of this Province, to try to use political propaganda to cover up the facts. Mr. Speaker, you cannot do it. The people of this Province are not going to be

November 30, 1981, Tape 3877, Page 2 -- apb MR. STIRLING: with the financial administration of this Provinceand the financial administration of this Province, at this present time, is being covered up - MR. HOUSE: Who is editor of the Muse? Who reads the Muse? MR. STIRLING: I would note with interest the hon. the Minister of Health(Mr. House) saying, 'Who reads the Muse?' MR. HOUSE: No, I never said that, I said, 'Who edits the Muse?' MR. TULK: Yes, you did. MR. STIRLING: You first of all said, 'Who reads the Muse?' MR. HOUSE: No, I did not. MR. STIRLING: Then you said, 'Who edits the Muse?' MR.

SPEAKER(Butt): Order, please Order, please MR. TULK: Who reads it? About 25,000 Newfoundlanders. A good superintendent become corrupt. MR. STIRLING: Mr. Speaker, we have seen this government set out a great public relations appeal two years ago. We saw this government, two years ago, set out a new look in government. Somebody was finally going to stand up for Newfoundland, we were finally going to come into our own, we were going to get some dignity. AN HON. MEMBER: Hear, hear MR. STIRLING: Mr.

Speaker, the difference between the promises and what we have now seen in the, for example, administration of this Province, financial administration of this Province, is worlds and worlds apart, and we see by this government an attempt, by the use of advertisements, paid advertisements, paid for by the people of this Province, to try to use political propaganda to cover up the facts. Mr. Speaker, you cannot do it. The people of this Province are not going to be 1 2 .R

November 30, 1981, Tape 3877, Page 3 -- apb MR. STIRLING: fooled any longer. The financial administration of this Province is being covered up and being concealed from the people of this Province and from this House of Assembly. 1 i 2

November 30, 1981 Tape No. 3878 EL - 1 MR. STIRLING: we did not have a mini-budget. We have not had the government tell the truth about why in October the Treasury Board of this Province, the people co- vered under this Financial Administration Act, the Treasury Board of this Province produced a report to the Minister of Finance (Dr.

Collins) indicating that we were $50 million down. $10 million surplus that had been budgeted had dis- appeared and we were now $40 million in the hole, so much so that the Minister of Finance invited in the TV cameras - I am sure it had nothing to do with the fact that the hospital workers were trying to negotiate a fair settlement at the time. I am sure it had nothing to do with that- grime Time TV Hews with a television camera following the Minister of Finance around, bringing in his deputy minister, acknowledging they were down $50 million and they were going to do an in- depth study. Mr.

Speaker, that in-depth study was done but it was never revealed to this House of Assembly or never revealed to the peopleof this Province. The missing $40 million was never brought in the figures, the detailed explanation, the detailed examination is being concealed from the people of this Province. It is being concealed from this House of Assembly. And we saw for the first time one of the media, one medium in this Province stood up and said, we will not accept misleading athertising. Mr.

Speaker, everybody else in this Province, every business that wishes to advertise had to follow a standard, the same standard, Mr. Speaker. A business has to follow a standard which is approved by the Consumer Affairs and the Better Business Bureau that advertisements cannot be misleading. Mr. Speaker, what has happened in this Province is the government has taken a deliberate 1 2

November 30, 1981 Tape No. 3878 EL - 2 MR. STIRLING: decision to try to confuse and mislead people. The first time that they tried it, they tried it on the great issue, the great issue which was the question of our Labrador boundary, then our denominational system of educafion. People did not believe it so they did not do any- thing with it. So then, Mr. Speaker, they went out into every liquor store, into every place where the public has to come to in this Province and they bought and paid for pamphlets,misleading pamphlets, Mr.

Speaker, And now the Muse has the courage to reject a misleading advertisement, but it cannot be rejected in the liquor corporation or in Workers' Compensation or in any of these other public areas. They cannot be rejected. Mr. Speaker, this government is carrying on with the worst of deception and is showing it every time they turn around. They have had ministers refuse to tell what the cutbacks are. They have ministers refuse to tell what the belt tightening is. They have had ministers refuse to give any of the most basic information.

Now the people cannot get from this government under the Financial Administration Act the information that they are entitled to. This government can keep it back. They can conceal it. But once in a while, Mr. Speaker, they have to show their hand because the requirement of the Act requires for them to bring in special warrants when it is not provided in the budget. Mr. Speaker, what was the special warrant that they brought into this House without comment, tried to slip it through on the 27th of November? Not provided in the Budget, $500,000, Mr.

Speaker, $500,000 not provided in the Budget under a special warrant. $350,000 was for con- sultants, $350,000 for consultants. $50,000 for comptter services and $100,000 for travelling for the province's offshore 1

November 30, 1981 Tape No. 3878 EL - 3 MR. STIRLING: negotiating team. Mr. Speaker, when the hon. Leo Barry resigned from this House he said our case was not ready. He said there was a lot of work to be done. And Mr. Barry resigned as Minister and now we are 4 1

November 30,1981 Tape No. 3879 ah-1 MR. STIRLING: rushing, the final daysof this deliberation, to spend $350,000 on consultants. What consultants, Mr.Speaker? Where are they coming from? Is it in fact true that what Mr. Barry said when he resigned from the government, when he resigned from the Cabinet. that our case was not ready, that we were not prepared, that we were a bunch of amateurs dealing with Ottawa with a loose committee that was not under the direction of a minister? Do we have a Minister of Energy (Mr.

Marshall) in an acting capacity today, a Minister of Energy who is a full-time lawyer, a Minister of Energy who does not give his full time to that ministry? Is that why we need $350,000 in consultants? Mr. Speaker, who are those consultants? Are they lawyers? Are they people brought in from other provinces? What is their role? Mr. Speaker, the people of Newfoundland and Labrador have been told that this is the most important set of negotiations we have ever had and we are going about it in a cloud, in a mystery.

All we know is that we had,maybe,the most competent person in the whole of Newfoundland and Labrador, Mr. Barry, resign on a question that we were not prepared, that the Premier was not going about it in a proper manner, had not given the direction in charge of a full-time energy minister, had taken it away from Mr. Barry. Now, Mr. Speaker, we see tabled in this House a special warrant not subject to debate , not brought in for debate. The only reason we can debate it is the accident that they brough in this Financial Administration Act. Mr.

Speaker, $350,000 for consultants, $50,000 for computer services and $100,000 for travel. ANHON.MEMBER: Travel? MR. STIRLING: Travelling, $100,000 for travelling. Mr. Speaker, the people of this Province have not been given the most basic information. They have not been given 1 J2.R

November 30,1981 Tape No. 3879 ah-2 MR. STIRLING: a clue as to what is needed in this negotiation. Mr. Speaker, we have seen the Premier of this Province, here in this House of Assembly, get up one day and say it was not in Newfoundland's best interests financially to recognize native rights1 he went on television and sounded so convincing and within twenty-four hours he had done a complete about-face, a complete about- face, Mr. Speaker, saying, that oh, yes, he was in favour of that all along.

And now we have a government that is refusing to give us the basic financial information, refusing to give us the information that people are entitled to in this Province, to know what happened to the $50 million deficit that was brough out in October. Is it that the Minister of Finance (Dr.Collins) would not accept the recommendations of tI Treasury Board? Have things been altered,as they were when the Treasury Hoard's secretary did not accept a political poll, would not agree to a political poll? It went beyond Treasury Board directly to Cabinet. That has been documented, Mr. Speaker.

That was documented by the Public Accounts Committee, that a political poll that was done by the government and the Premier of this Province at the time agreed that it was a political poll and that it should be recovered. We now have this same Premier gone of into political advertising paid for by the people of this Province to cover up the truth of the situation as to what kind of state this Province is in. Mr. Speaker, it will be to late when it eventually comes out, it will be to late. What else, Mr. Speaker, have we seen brought into this Province? We have seen not provided in the budget another document, Mr.

Speaker, another special one looking for $546,000 for legal assistance, $546,000 for legal assistance. 1 2 - 7

November 30, 1981 Tape 3880 EC - 1 ~ MR. STIRLING: Now, Mr. Speaker, what kind of a requirement could we have for legal assistance that was not provided for in the budget, that this House of Assembly has not been given the information on, that they will refuse to give the information when they table the statement, the conflicting and misleading statement? Mr. Speaker, what is $546,000 not provided for in the budget, for legal assistance? What are we getting into that requires $546,000 worth of legal fees, and who are the legal firms being retained, Mr. Speaker?

What legal firms are being retained and what are they to do? This is information which the people have a right to know. The Minister of Finance (Dr.Collins) simply said, "In the requirements of

Section 2S of the Financial Administration Act, I hereby table this warrant," no explanation, no information4 AndI would expect that when he does get up to talk about how great this bill is, separating out the two, that he will explain to us what all of these things are for. Mr. Speaker, my colleague, the member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) was on to another interesting series of questions having to do with public examinations.

We have had a special warrant for $75,000 dealing with public examinations, $75,000 not explained, not called for in the budget - do not want to let the people of Newfoundland and Labrador know. This is all tabled in the last couple of days, Mr. Speaker. Because this government has made a determination, they have made a decision.

They know that they are going to get an agreement on the offshore gas and oil - after two years of confrontation, two years of having the financial state that this Province is in, because people have left, investment is dried up, you cannot raise money in this Province; there is no confidence; 1

November 30, 1981 Tape 3880 EC - 2 MR. STIRLING: they cannot manage the affairs of the economy; they cannot tell businesses what they can expect, they write them of f as a bunch of nuisances. MR. MOORES: Right. MR. STIRLING: We had the example earlier today of a minister introducing a piece of legislation after giving his word to the Construction Association that he would delay it for two or three days so they could consult. This is a government, Mr.

Speaker, which has made the conscious decision that they will get an agreement on the offshore oil, They made a complete about-face1 they abandoned everything that they said was important on the ownership. They have now come to the point 4 1 2 :.a

Nov. 30, 1981 Tape No. 3881 DW - 1 MR. L. STIRLING: where they are negotiatinc and they have given up will get the agreement because all of the provinces have agreed, and within a couple of weeks after getting that agreement,at the end of February or March,we will be into an election, Mr. Speaker, an election - MR. W. MARSHALL: A point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Butt): A point of order, the hon. President of the Council. MR. W. MARSHALL: I have listened to the hon. gentleman throughout his whole remarks and he is being totally and absolutely irrelevant.

First of all, when he talks about special warrants he must know that these are debated in the supplementary supply bill that will have to come before this House in due course. Secondly, Mr. Speaker, we have a bill before us dividing the functions of the Deputy sinister of Finance and the Comptroller of the Treasury and the provision with respect to the general organiza- tion of the department. Now, the hon. gentleman is on cffshore negotiations and what-have-you and continuing to voice his fear that he lives with daily that this govern- ment will call an election.

He gets up and every word that comes out of him is as to whether or not the government is going to call an election. All of these things, Mr. Speaker, I are totally irrelevant to the 7rincip1e of this bill which pretains to the organization was re-organization of the De- partment of Finance. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.! MR. J. HODDER: To the point of order, Mr. Speaker. 1 2 L fl

Nov. 30, 1981 Tape No. 3881 DW - 2 MR. SPEAKER (Butt) To the point of order, the hon. member for Port au Port. MR. J. HODDER: To the point of order, Mr. Speaker. What the House Leader opposite has done is taken the opportunity to get up and try to take some of the stinging blows, which the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Stirling) has been slinging across the House, to try to put the record right and which he has been very unsuccessful in doing. But, Mr. Speaker, the Act which we are debating right now is the Financial Administration Act, 1973.

And this deals with the financial administration of this Province and I would say, Mr. Speaker, that any member speaking on this bill would have the widest latitude possible, because anything that deals with the financial administration of this Province can be brought up under this bill, I do submit, Mr. Speaker. But I will say, Mr. Speaker, that I do detect that the hon. member for St. John's East (Mr. Marshall) is just trying to get his few wordsin to try to divert the attention of the people listening. MR. SPEAKER: Well, to the point of order, relevancy is always difficult to rule on.

In this bill the Finance Department is bringing on an additional deputy minister. I think, because it involves financial adminis- tration, it would lead to a wide-ranging debate. But I would ask hon. members if they would confine their remarks to that bill. I will rule that there is a point of order. The hon. leader of the Opposition. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear AN HON. MEMBER: A good ruling. You should be in the Chair more often. 1 t! 2 LL I

Nov. 30, 1981 Tape No, 3881 DW 3 MR. L. STIRLING: Mr. Speaker, the President of the Council (Mr. Marshall) is terrified! Absolutely ter- rified that the people of this Province may get to know the true decision made by this government to confuse and mislead and use the public purse to buy advertisments - Mr. Speaker, they bought -and it has to do with the Financial administration - I would have no argument with them if they did the proper thing which was pay for those advertise- ments by the PC party. Well,Mr. Speaker, having found that confederation Trust is in the hole $750, 000, and,therefore.they cannot use that7 they are now using the peoples money. S 4 1 J2L

November 30, 1981 Tape No. 3882 NM 1 MR. STIRLING: Mr. Speaker, they have made the decision, the conscious decision, to try to confuse people, and look for an opportunity to slip in an election on an emotional issue like,for example the offshore, or the constitution. Mr. Speaker, they are not going to get away with it. Even though they are spending the peoples money, we now have evidence that at least one organization, the Muse, has rejected a paid advertisement, a full-page advertisement - AN HON. MEMBER: One rejected you last week. MR. NEARY: And they need the money. They need the money. MR. STIRLING: Mr.

Speaker, it may be worthwhile having a look at why they rejected it. MR. WARREN: (Inaudible). DR. COLLINS: I table it. I do not read it. I table it. MR. STIRLING: Sure he does not read this stuff. MR, HOLLETT: There are 30,000 copies in circulation, 'John', you can get one. MR. MOORES: He does not read that stuff. MR. HODDER: That is a St. John's answer to the member for Stephenville (Mr. Stagg) MR. CALLAN: Mr. Speaker, it was bad enough when we had one overgrown galoot, now we have two overgrown galoots - MR. SPEAKER (Butt) : Order, please MR. CALLAN: - sitting side by side. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please 1 U2i

November 30, 1981 Tape No. 3882 NM - 2 MR. CARTER: Mr. Speaker, order him to sit down. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh MR. CALLAN: Two overgrown galoots. MR. STIRLING: Mr. Speaker, what we have going on is a government which is trying to hang on for dear life and trying to confuse, trying to not let the people see the facts. We cannot get the information from the Department of Health. The Department of Health has not tabled any of the information indicating what kind of a freeze they have put on hospitals, what kind of cutback in services have had to go to hospitals.

We cannot get information from the Minister of Finance as to where the missing $11 million is,even from his own figures. The Minister of Finance has refused to tell us whether the $34 million was a total increase from Ottawa. He has forgotten to tell us. He will not tell us. MR. TULK: He did not know. MR. STIRLING: He is refusing to tell us. The Department of Education will not tell us what programmes are being cut back and standind up to say that they have no information from any of the school boards that are screaming out to them because they do not have facilities. And they think, Mr.

Speaker, that they can get away with that. They think they can get away with it by running advertisements. MR. BARRETT: - the Financial Administration Act aaain. MR. TULK: How would you know? You bankrupted Crosbie. How would you know? You bankrupted Crosbie, boy. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh MR. BARRETT: You belong over there, boy. You are really sharp. 1 2 ii I

November 30, 1981 Tape No. 3882 NM - 3 MR. TULK: About the same as yourself. MR. SPEAKER (Butt) : Order, please MR. STIRLING: One of the things that has not been reported to this House, and has been concealed from this House, has to do with Advocate Mines. We have been told in this House, Mr. Speaker, that the first notice that this government got, the first notice that this government got was the close down of Advocate Mines. Mr. Speaker, the minister has now told us, the Minister of Nines and Energy (Mr.

Marshall) told us that Newfoundland, the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, was one of the creditors, one of the creditors of Advocate mines for several million dollars. Now, Mr. Speaker, if under the Financial Administration Act, the Department of Finance, the Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins) was doing his job, he would have known in the last couple of years that Advocate Mines had not been paying their sales tax, that Advocate Mines had not been paying what they should be paying in mining tax.

They would have told this House what kind of a desperate situation was already foreseen, or he would have talked to his colleague. Now is the Minister of Energy saying that the Minister of Finance did not let him know that Advocate Mines was in such a shaky position, such a shaky position that they did not even have the money to pay the taxes that they should have paid Several million dollars in taxes is a lot of money, Mr. Speaker, and Adocate Mines obviously has been 4 getting away for years with not paying their share of the taxes. Now, Mr.

Speaker, what kind of a mismanagement is going on in this Province. 2 u

November 30, 1981, Tape 3883, Page 1 -- apb MR. STIRLING: You cannot bluff your way through, sooner or later that has to be caught up with, and you cannot take an advertisement and just try to bluff your way through in all of these areas. Mr. Speaker, we have an abuse of public money, we have an abuse in the question of what has happened in rural Newfoundland. This government got elected, Mr.

Speaker, talking about building rural NewEoundland and in the last few years over 25,000 people have left rural Newfoundland - in the last couple of years alone - looking for jobs in Alberta because this government has not performed. They make a great speech, they make great public relations, great advertisements, Mr. Speaker, but they do not tell the full story.

And I am glad that the Minister of Labour has come back in, because I understood that he was not going to have second reading of his bill this afternoon, that he was going to consult with the Construction Association before bringing in his bill this afternoon to he finished. MR. DINN: Do you have misunderstandings all the time? MR. TtJLK: (Inaudible) you and the Construction Association. MR. SPEAKER(Butt): Order, please: MR. STIRLING: Mr. Speaker, there is no question, this government has misunderstandings with everybody they deal with. MR.

SPEAKER: Order, please: Order, please: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition(Mr. Stirling) is now really straying somewhat from this Department of Finance Act. MR. STIRLING: Straying somewhat? I had to get in the record, Mr. Speaker, that we had no control over the fact that the minister brought in his bill for second reading this afternoon that he had promised not to 1 2 LL

November 30, 1981, Tape 3383, Page 2 -- apb MR. STIRLING: bring in. MR. HOLLETT: It is worthy to note though that he did (inaudible) from stray. MR. NEARY: Double-cross: Double-cross: I MR. DINN: A point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER(Butt): A point of order, the hon. the Minister of Labour and Manpower. MR. DINN: My point of order is that the Leader of the Opposition is stating information in this House which is not accurate. I did speak this morning with a representative of the Building and Construction Trades.

At that point in time I said that I would be going through third reading today - or through second reading today and that if they wanted to come in to speak to officials of the department they were quite welcome to do so. I would be willing to do so at any time. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! That, obviously, is not a point of order, but the hon. the Minister of Labour and Manpower(Mr. Dinn) took the opportunity to clarify remarks attributed to him. The hon. the Leader of the Opposition has about four minutes to conclude his remarks. MR. STIRLING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. What I want to say in

summary then is that this is a very hi.storic day, this is the first day in which one of the news media in this Province said to the government, 'We will accept no more misleading advertising'. 4 SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear STIRLING: No more misleading advertising. I hope it will be an example so that other media will have to use the same standards that they would apply to business; if a misleading add came in they would not accept it. 1 2 L 7

November 30, 1981, Tape 3883, Page 3 -- apb MR. STIRLING: Well, Mr. Speaker, in the state that this economy is in, in the state that this Province is in, very few people can do what the Muse did, and that is reject a misleading piece of advertising MR. NEARY: Hear, heart 1 2P

November 30, 1981 Tape No. 3884 SD - 1 S MR. STIRLING: Mr. Speaker, I was over to the West Coast on the weekend and they are not getting all of the news of what comes out of this House of Assembly. They should be getting all of this news. But some of these papers are full of paid political propaganda, paid for by the people of this Province. And it is the most insidious form, Mr. Speaker, because it is half true. In dealing with the financial administration, I hope that the person responsible for financial administration under the new division of duties, having no responsibilities to the Minister of Finance (Dr.

Collins) and working with the Auditor-General, will be able to bring out these cases where this is an abuse of the people's money. And it has more to do with the whole attitude of this government which is attempting to conceal, to confuse and to give half truths,Mr. Speaker. When they cannot get away with it in the direct media-they refuse to debate - the Prernir of this Province blames his staff for three times turninq down a debate with me,it is up to the staff to settle that.

But on the question of the financial administration of this Province, Mr Speaker, let it be recorded that today was the day that one of the media said no. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh. MR. SPEAKER (Butt): Order, please! MR. STIRLING: Mr. Speaker, the arrogance of the government will eventually get put to the test and they will send a telegram complaining of a headline with a full-page ad just in case somebody does not get the message. But, Mr. Speaker, they are not going to get away with it because the news media of this Province, no matter how financially strapped,will reject that kind of misleading advertising.

And now that they have been given the warning where they cannot take

part in debate1 where they will not bring into this House of Assembly a mini- budget subject to debate, where ministers refuse to answer questions, where a Minister of Finance will not give the full information, the Auditor-General and the person responsible for 1 2 L 0

November 30, 1981 Tape No. 3884 SD - 2 I MR. STIRLING: the financial administration will bring it out after the fact. There is no question the truth will eventually come out,but it may be too late, Mr.

Speaker, too late for the people who are being hurt in this Province, the people who are suffering, the people who cannot get jobs, the people who have moved away, the people in Grand Bank who have been put off from week to week, saying we are going to give you a decision in two weeks, somebody who can take a full- page ad to distort the information on the federal budget, cannot sit down with a Cabinet until next Thursday-. hopefully we will get there by next Thursday. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) MR. TULK: Go away, boy, distortion. MR. SPEAKER (Butt) : Order, please.

I must inform the hon. the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Stirling) that his time has expired. MR. STIRLING: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. It will not change things but this will be a day when they will note that the government of this Province tried to hide and they could not hide,And we will eventually bring out to the people of the Province that this distortion that this government is getting away with at the present time, they will eventually have to answer for to the voters, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Carbonear. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. MR.

MOORES: I am not prepared to speak, Mr. Speaker. How long do I have? MR. SPEAKER: Half an hour. MR. MOORES: I will be half an hour if you want to qo for a coffee. MR. STIRLING: (Inaudible) MR. MOORES: Sure, sure. SOME HON, MEMBERS: Oh, oh! 1 2cn

November 30, 1981 Tape No. 3884 SD - 3 MR. TULK: How obliging are you at all. MR. MOORES: Very polite of the man. It would do some of the other Cabinet ministers iel1 to take a lesson from him. Mr. Speaker, I just have a few remarks to make on this particular bill. I am glad, Mr. Speaker, that your previous 4 I : - I .1

November 30, 1981 Tape No. 3885 EL - 1 MR. MOORES: ruling has indicated a wide and broad debate. Because I think that is so when there is ever an amendment to the Financial Administration Act of this Province of the importance and the significance as this one in the appointment of a comp- troller, etc.,etc., and I believe it is incumbent upon all members of this House, not only on the Opposition side but on the government side as well, to get up and inform this House how they feel about such a major change in the admin- istration of finance in this Province. Because, Mr.

Speaker, if there is ever once in this Province's little history that we need a comptroller, it is right now, right now when the economy and the finances of this Province have never been in a worse state. In all our history we have never seen an economic condition as dismal as we see right now. My colleague, the Leader of the Opposition,and my colleague the member for LaPoile, (Mr. Neary) in one of his landmark speeches as usual,brought to the forefront a number of very,very amazing, saddening states that exist within our econorn' right now. The fact last year, Mr.

Speaker, that the Canada Manpower Centre in Harbour Grace, in my district gave out 125 mObility grants to young people in my district and their families to mobilize them, to take them out of this Province and send them off to Alberta or British Columbia, that is something significant, Mr. Speaker. That is something that all of us should sit down for a moment and take a good hard look at. And there have been 25,000, there have been 25,000 such people, such young people and their families in this Province who have been forced to leave because of the lack of employment, have been forced to leave due to this 1 21

November 30, 1981 Tape No. 3885 EL - 2 MR. MOORES: saddening economic condition that exists. And why? Why, Mr. Speaker, why is it that the economic conditions are as they are and why i it that em- ployment is as it is? Is it because in the eight years, the nine years of PC administration in this Province that we have seen the economy grow? Is it in those:±ine years that we have seen the industrial capacity of this Province expand and increase to provide the jobs that are necessary for our young people? What government in the free world, Mr.

Speaker, what government in the free world would allow such an opportunity ag the development of the Lower Churchill in an energy starved world - we have a neighbour to the south of us, the United States, which is prepared to consume ten times the electricity that we can produce.

And we have one of the great natural resources existing in Labrador that this government has done nothing about, that could create 2,500 jobs in the construction stage, that could re-inflate the economy of Goose Bay, a town which has been significantly receding and dying in the last few years, despite this govern- ment, I might add, despite it, despite what it has been saying, the propoganda that it has been disseminating, the inaccuracies that it has been promulgating in the last J 1 1r, 2 q

November 30, 1981 Tape 3886 EC - 1 MR. MOORES: seven, eight, nine, ten years, and a significant increase in that deceit, that misleading has occurred in the last two years under this present administration. And it is only now, as my colleague, the Leader of the Opposition, points out, it is only now that the public, the media in this Province, is catching on But I stand - my conscience is clear. I stood in this House two years ago and told the media and informed this House that there was deceit going on of the worst kind.

What other Premier in all of Canada would go to Memorial University in front of 600 students and tell thnm that this Province is number one in its per capita spending on education in the nation of Canada? What other Premier would do that?

Such a bald falsehood: And that type of deceit and misleading has gone on, it has filtered right down through everything that this administration has done in matters relating to the economy, the deceit that has gone on with regard to production of hydro-electricity in this Province, how we are being told that the Upper Salmon and Hinds Lake and Cat Arm are necessary when they are only pacifiers. They have been caused by inactivity, caused by inaction over seven or eight years of mundane and impotent government.

I commend the staff of the Muse, a paper that is too often taken too lightly in this Province, I might add. But I recall back in 1970 and 1971 that it was that newspaper, the Muse, the student newspaper, which was primary in the overthrow, the inevitable and eventual overthrow of the Smaliwood regime. And it is starting now, again. This is not just one isolated incident. They have caught the Premier at his game, and the game is up, boys. All over this Province the game is up, and if you do not believe it then you are living in some abyss somewhere. You are living in a vacuum. And that is quite 1

November 30, 1981 Tape 3886 EC - 2 MR. MOORES: true, because there is a vacuum of political intellect that exists here in this city. If you go by what you have been told in the city of St. John's, you would not know but the 'Peckford' regime 4 is going to be swept back into power with fifty out of fifty-two seats. AN HON. MEMBER: I am not even sure that that is not the answer. MR. MOORES: Well, I have news for you. MR. SPEAKER (Butt): Order, please Order, please The hon. member is straying somewhat now. MR. MOORES: Now, Mr. Speaker, I am interested in the economy of this Province.

I am interested in the future that this Province is going to take. And I believe, to speak fairly and justly, most hon. members in this House are equally concerned. But our perception of the events that are unfolding are somewhat different, depending upon where we sit. For instance, last year, the then Minister of Mines and Energy for this Province, (Mr.Barry) who, I might add, was the fifth column of the present government and now has been relegated to the back seats because of another confrontation with the Premier - last 1 2

November 30,1981 Tape No. 3887 ah-1 Mr. MOORES: year he stood in his place and he and I were involved in a verbal interaction and he stated uncategorically at that time that the economy of Newfoundland has never been in better shape. MR. NEARY: Remember what they saidthey did not want to overheat the economy. MR. MOORES: Two weeks ago the Premier of this Province in a letter to the Leader of the Opposition said, and I quote, "It is appalling that you could support such cutbacks for a province as fiscally strapped as ours." And the next day the Minister of Finance (Dr.

Collins) made a statement that we were $40 million in deficit.Now, what a flamboyant, energetic, vital economy. What man in his right mind would get up and defend the likes of that? We have the highest unemployment in Canada. Hospitals, roads, water and sewerage have never been worse. My ear is talked off by people in my district who do not have a sensible road to drive on, who have to wait - MR. NEARY: One crew this Winter for snow clearing. MR. MOORES: - who have to wait days and days to get into a hospital, who have no water and sewerage.

You know, I can mimic this all day,where it has been said thousands of times in this House and I do not want to get into the specifics. I do not want to get into Advocate Mines at Baie Verte and the sham that is going on in regards to that operation7 what I want to keep plugging away at is what I have been plugging away at for two years in this House, that the problem is not that we have economic problems but that they are being deliberately concealed, that the message is going out to the people of this Province, like the former Minister of Mines and Energy conveyed, that our economy has never been more buoyant.

That is the problem. And our role as an Opposition and my role as an Opposition 1 H2.P

November 30,1981 Tape No. 3887 ah-2 MR. MOORES: member is to point out to you that that is the problem. Everybody in Canada knows that this little Province is fiscally strapped, that we have nothing here nor have we ever had anything in 400 years, on which to build a vibrant economy except for a few fishermen who are now being plaqued to death by federal and provincial authorities. If it is not National Revenue on one side it is the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) on the other.

We have a forestry industry in this Province that is almost on the brink of oblivion because of spruce budworm, And we have a mining industry in this Province that is gone, effectively gone. And we have a Provincial government that is too lazy to get working on the Lower Churchill and develop some hydro industry. And the Minister of Rural, Agricultural Development, the Member for Naskaupi, talks about aluminum smelters - what other dream, what other fantasy is he engaged in? If the aluminum smelter comes about as fast as the Lower Churchill did, I will be old and gray before any jobs come out of it.

Any member on the government side of this House who participates in that kind of deception will also be held accountable for it, in my opinion, in my books. There is no reason why you have to be led like seals, like lambs to the slaughter, you are individuals with your own personal constitutions on which to stand. And that is my position. Whether it is a public statement on the legalization of drugs, or whether it is a condemnation of the government economically I am an individual and I have a 1 J2.?

Nov. 30, 1981 Tape No. 3888 OW - 1 MR. R. MOORES: responsibility. And whether I sit in Opposition or whether I sit on the government side, • that will be my stand and I will take whatever comes my way as punishment or the expense for it.Now, name any two men on the government side who could stand up and say the same thing Any two. It is pathetic, Mr. Speaker, pathetic to see what is going on in this little Province today.

And if the government would only admit, if the Premier would only stand in his place and admit that he is human, that he is capable of making a mistake- you know, for my part.I was never deceived by his qualifica- tions to be Premier. I knew the man ten years ago, I knew what his qualifications then were to be Premier. MR. SPEAKER (Butt): Order, please I believe the hon. member once again is straying somewhat. MR. R. MOORES: Mr. Speaker, thank you. The administration of finances in this Province, albeit the authority is dele- gated to the Minister of Finance (Dr.

Collins), the administrationof finances in this Provinces is a direct responsibility of the Premier and his Cabinet, his administration in total. Although the drab, day-to-day gray matters of finance and the administra- tion thereof fall within the Department of Finance, the real administration of the economy rests with the Premier and the Cabinet It is important, Mr. Speaker, that we realize that.Because it has not been the PC administration that has subdued, oppressed and suppressed the economy of this Province,it has been one man with one or two of his cronies who have led this Province to the 1 P 2

November 30, 1981 Tape No. 3888 OW - 2 MR. R. MOORES: brink of economic destruction by confrontation with Ottawa, endless confrontation with Ottawa, that has pretty darned near bankrupt us, whether it is on offshore oil and gas or DREE agreements. And I do not believe the people of this Province realize that at the present time there are eleven DREE agreements in this Province that remain unsigned because of some child- ish quibbling between the Premier and Ottawa. MR. STIRLING: He just does not understand. MR. MOORES: He just does not understand, this man.

You would need to take a sledge hammer and strike him with it. He just does not seem to understand that this stupid, insane policy of confrontation with Ottawa is costing 1 7

November 30, 1981 Tape No. 3889 EL-i MR. MOORES: this Province, is costing the people of this Province millions of dollars and hundreds of jobs. MR. MORGAN: (Inaudible). MR. TtJLK: Be quiet, Chubby. 11±(. WARREN: What did you call him, Chubby? MR. TULK: Chubby Charlie. MR. MOOBES: If the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) would like to go for another coffee, he is quite welcome to. MR. MORGAN: I will not be going for a toke, I can tell you that. MR. MOORES: Well, it might clear your head. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh MR. LUSH: That is impossible. MR. SPEAKER (BUTT): Order, please! MR.

MORGAN: That is Liberal strategy (inaudible) marijuana. MR. STIRLING: What a dispicable - MR. SPEARER: Order MR. MOORES: I need the time to collect my thoughts. Let me give you, Mr. Speaker, let me give you a perfect example of what I am talking about. Well, Ican give you two perfect examples, but I will deal with one, the instance now of the big fiasco, the big racket, the big argument that is going on about transfer payments, equalization payments from Ottawa to Newfoundland.

Now, I remember when this Premier, particularly, came to power in 1979, it was no more going to Ottawa with cap in hand. 'Forget it, forget it. We are not into that. This government is going to stand on its own two feet, four square. No more talk about going to Ottawa and begging for what is rightfully ours.' And now,Mr. Speaker, when there is a difference of a few dollars, quibbling dollars of transfer payments, equalization benefits 1 fl21fl

November 30, 1981 Tape No. 3889 EL - 2 MR. MOORES: to the Province, he is up in arms, up in arms that Ottawa has not given us enough, up in arms because Ottawa has not transferred enough money down to pay off the deficit on the current account that exists in this Province 1 of $40 million. Because if we could get it from Ottawa in equalization payments then we could go on then and deceive the people of Newfoundland againinto believing that our current account is balanced, there is no deficit. The same old thing, Mr.

Speaker, over and over, we need $500 million a year from Ottawa and we need $500 million more if we can get it, we need $1 billion more if we can get it, we will take all we can get from Ottawa and we will be thankful to the people of Canada that we can get it. And what is wrong with that? That is the spirit of Confederation. When we joined Confederation in 1949 we knew what was coming, we never had a road nor a hospital worth talking about.

You would not know but the people of Canada were all in favour of sending equalization payments down, you would not know but there is nobody in Ontario or Alberta who does not like the idea, you would not know but they were up there prepared to give all their income taxes, all their income to the people of Newfoundland. Do not be so foolish, There are people in Ontario now who would like to see us starve if they could because they are taxed to the burden now, taxed right to the hilt. MR. NEARY: Ontario even qualifies for equalization grants. MR. MOORES: This is a very real problem in this country.

You would not know but there was a financial pipeline from the three or four 'have' provinces in this country. We should be thankful that Confederation, the whole concept of Confederation, is as it is. Mr. Speaker, I could go on - MR. NEARY: Carry on, keep her coing. MR. CALLAN: You were promised a half hour, you know. 1 2

November 30, 1981 Tape No. 3889 SD-3 MR. MOORES: Have I not been speaking for half an hour yet? MR. SPEAKER (BUTT): The hon. member has about seven minutes left. 1 MR. STIRLING: How about the need for post- secondary education? MR. HODDER: To the crowd over on the other side, it probably sounds like an hour. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. MOORES: My colleague, the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Stirling) , just mentioned to me - 1 H 2 R•)

November 30, 1981 Tape No. 3890 SD - 1 S MR MOORES: one of the difficulties, Mr.

Speaker, in dealing with specifics in a speech like this, it is like a preacher who is giving a sermon - if he gets into facts he misses the main thrust, If you get into specifics- the main thrust of what I want to give to you is what is going on in this Province in terms of how the Premier is misleading the people on the economy, not only the economy but hundreds of other things1 whether it is a strike with the NAPE employees, the College of Trades and Technology or anything, they will come out and they will give you figures and facts that are absolutely designed to mislead, to give a false position so that the people of Newfoundland who are listening on television or in the papers or something like that, will be green enough to follow it.

Wellthe Memorial Universt -" students caught up on it. On the front page of the Muse this week they cauqht up on it, they caught the Premier at his goodies and goodies. And I am so proud of them. Take nothinc back, Mr. Speaker, I am as proud as a peacock that the staff of the Muse, Memorial University students, the so-called un-adults, the immature, the inexperienced anyone is supposed to be able to pull the wool over their eyes, so proud of them that they have come to the forefront once again and they have seen what hundreds of thousands of Newfoundlanders have been, to this point, unable to see.

Now,I could tell you why the people of this Province have been unable to see it, but we will get into a very delicate condemnation of an aspect of society which I dealt with Friday morning in a point of privilege, and I do not want to get into that today.

But that is- I have always said, and I can sum it up in one sentence1 that the single most important obstruction to good government in this Province right now is the rnedia..And I am glad to see that one medium, the Muse,has been responsible enough to call a spade a spade and say it to the Premier of Newfoundland, an9 they put it in writing - do you have that paper there,'Len'- they put 1 P2

November 30, 1981 Tape No. 3890 SD - 2 MR. MOORES: it in writing, they never minced any words, they never pulled any punches, they said very clearly, Mr. Speaker, 'The staff of this paper, after much deliberation, decided on Monday to refuse the ad. We could not, in good conscience, allow this paper to be the vehicle for what we consider misleading propaganda directed at students'. Now, there it is Now, that is it Now, there it is, straightforward, a spade is a spade. And if there is any newspaper - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh MR. MOORES: - that is a fact, Mr.

Speaker, no question about it, anyone who has deceived themselves in believing that these are not the leaders of the Province of tomorrow,then just look around you. There are a dozen of us here who are former Memorial graduates, and every town council and school that I know of,and almost every Crown corporation in this Province, managers of stores like Woolco and The Bay right now, were the graduates when I went to university. MR. WARREN: Right on. MR. MOORES: And these young people, seventeen and eighteen years old, have been able to do in a mature, adult, responsible manner what